Entertainment Weekly published a post today wherein David Benioff and Dan Weiss give their opinion on people who spoil Game of Thrones. That opinion can be summed up thusly.
“I just want to point out that guy’s an a–hole,” Benioff says of one of the paparazzi infiltrators. “You’re not cool for doing that, you’re an a–hole.”
There’s more than that inflammatory quote, however. The article delves into how HBO and Benioff & Weiss have been more and more vigilant about protecting their show from spies and spoiler hounds.
No more paper scripts (all electronic). The “circle of trust” was tightened among the cast and network executives with regard to story detail. Code names were used for certain characters and scenes. HBO’s international partners will get their copies of episodes much closer to each hour’s U.S. debut. And on the set itself, security was increased in an attempt to prevent fans from taking photos of the production.
“It’s like protecting your house,” reasons showrunner David Benioff. “You make it as hard as possible for burglars in hopes they look for some other house to burgle, but it’s impossible to ever completely secure your house.”
Yes, despite their best efforts, spoilers for the season have emerged. Set photos, casting news (can this really be called a spoiler though?), and more have all leaked from season 6. And what do David & Dan think of the people out there who actively seek out this information?
“It’s crazy enough to be the person crawling through the bushes in Northern Ireland with a telescopic lens taking pictures – there are crazy people out there,” Benioff says. “But the idea that people want to go to sites and find out those spoilers … it’s like if there was a website called Last Pages of Great Books, would you read that?”
Harsh words. I think Joanna Robinson of Vanity Fair summed it up quite nicely.
WinterPhil: I’m going to have to disagree with David & Dan on this one. Just because you personally don’t like spoilers when you are experiencing a story, doesn’t mean others feel the same. As for myself, I don’t like to be spoiled too much but I know plenty of other people do and to those people I say: knock yourselves out.
The other thing that doesn’t sit well with me about this is the implicit notion in David & Dan’s comments that the fans who like to be spoiled and the sites that do the spoiling are somehow in the wrong. The fans who hunt down every scrap of news about the show, spoiler or otherwise, are generally your biggest fans. Shaming them for being passionate fans is a bad look.
And I would be remiss if I didn’t stand up for this site and community. It definitely feels like some of those words were directed this way. It’s true that Watchers, and WiCnet before it, runs some news that could be considered “spoilers”. Of course, I’ve already explained why that isn’t something to demonize. But even so, I think our track record in releasing spoilers is quite admirable. My policy at WiCnet and one that has carried over here, is to not publish any major leaks ourselves. If something ends up online, yeah, we will report it. It’s already out there and the fans are going to find it. (This does not extend to full episode leaks, of course.) But there are tons of script leaks and set photos and other reports that we get each and every year that we DON’T release. Going all the way back to when I got the pilot script. I reviewed it, but didn’t release it. We had set photos of Ned’s beheading that we didn’t release. We had shots of the script of Tyrion’s trial; we didn’t release them. We had confirmed set reports of Talisa’s death that we didn’t report on.
Anything that is newsworthy, yeah, we are going to report. Casting news is a big one. Every year HBO and David & Dan get more and more tight lipped about casting. I have no idea why. That is news, not a spoiler. So yeah, we are going to report that. Filming locations are also news. We are going to report on that. And the spoiler stuff that we do report on, we are always careful about hiding that from those who don’t wish to see it. You can be a regular reader of this site and still not get spoiled (I know, because I’ve been doing it for the last couple of years).
Please don’t shame your biggest fans, David & Dan. Every one of us here at Watchers and all of the readers love the show and love reading about it and talking about it. Even when that might extend to something you would consider a “spoiler”. Many of us enjoy having a peek behind the curtain, so to speak. While others just love to obsess over this show year round and spoilers and speculation are a big part of that. This sort of fan engagement should be celebrated, not discouraged.
I support Benioff and Weiss 100%.
They were, in fact, too kind.
You know mods can tell when you’re posting under multiple screennames right?
I second this.
I can understand their point of view too… Which is why I always feel slightly guilty reading the spoilers lol… but I’ve always wanted to know what’s on the last pages of a book ever since I was little! Maybe next season I’ll try to abstain from spoilers. It will definitely be a challenge!
So you guys have information on characters who die this season? Hmm intruiging!
Totally agree… You guys do a great job here and I’ve often suspected you know much more that you let on. Tbh spoilers/leaks are often what keeps these shows in the minds of some of the more fairweather fans of season, it’s a real pity they don’t seem to see that. Have you guys ever had any direct dialogue/ contact from D&D on this?
I love both spoilers and surprise. I’m not keen on people scaling buildings and climbing mountains with telescopic lenses, but I don’t begrudge them anything.
Sophie Turner does an amazing Jon Snow impression. Laughed my ass off during this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPu5q6sft1A
I like their show but their attitude is quite annoying. they can’t tell me how I’m going to enjoy it.
This site has to be public enemy #1 for D&D lol. Oh well what can they do
I understand D&D’s point of view here. As a writer myself, I’m bothered when people want to know the end without enjoying the journey. I work my ass off to craft that story so it unfolds in a very specific way. When someone jumps to the end, I’m frustrated that all my work seems for naught.
On the other hand, as viewer and a reader, knowing the end often makes me enjoy the journey more. And that’s how I feel about GoT.
But if I had know that Dexter was going to end with the lumberjacking, I would have stopped watching at S3. So, there’s that…
These Two Dickheads Heads have gotten way TOO Dam Big. They think there Shit don’t stink.
100% agree with you WinterPhil, we’ve all been waiting for at least a year (or as a book reader 5 yrs) for this plot to progress past the point it is currently at and I for one love to speculate the end game of the series even if that means peaking behind the current a little to confirm or assist in my theories
They have their own opinions on how stories are meant to be enjoyed. Big deal. I don’t read this as shaming people who seek out spoilers. They’re shaming people who find and post spoilers, because some people stumble on those without wanting to.
I mean, let’s be honest, even if you’d wanted to go through the entire year completely spoiler-free on
how easy would it have been to avoid any news mentioning
(which I can only imagine is the photo which they called someone an “a-hole” about)?
I think you guys do a great job, and your policy, as WinterPhil described it, seems to work. The amount you guys posted these past few months has allowed us to speculate and debate several different possibilities, but lbr, none of them are locked in. You haven’t spoiled anything for us thanks to what you hold back, you’ve just given us the perfect platform to debate what’s already out there.
I can understand why D&D don’t want any information out at all, but that doesn’t make them right lol
Of course they are going to be protective of their work and secrets. That’s how they should feel. And of course they’re not going to have the same perspective as fans who want that info and don’t feel like it ruins the experience for them to know ahead of time. This is a constant back and forth between creators and fans. It’s the modern-age. You either accept it or allow it to frustrate you. It’s not going to change, though. It’s likely only going to get much, much, much more difficult to keep spoilers out of the hands of those who want them.
If I had one bit of advice for executives around the industry it is this:
Make your own spoiler sites and control the flow of information officially.
I view it, they have to choose the hardline stand on spoiling, since if they sounded compromising that sends a message that will embolden some of the likes of that guy who was in that TOJ site and makes their overall job harder. If say there were 10 brazen enough to do that on Season6 filming, you bet that number will be double if they sounded like some spoilers are ok.
the staff of WoTW are good in filtering spoilers.. but every individual have a different criteria which spoiler info is ruinous or not
I’ll probably try to abstain in the final season. Maybe.
The leaks and the minor-spoiler are part of the game for the fans.
This site does a great work giving us some bites.
I loved WiC, and I love Watchers. I can’t say I’ve been the best guy around (sometimes I’m too snarky for my own good), but I like to be a part of the community.
I understand D&D’s position. The leak of episodes 1-4 from S5 must have been really annoying for them and HBO. And certainly, people who go around spoiling other people on YouTube, or comments sections, etc. just for the fun of ruining the surprises for everyone, are dicks.
But I do think they were too harsh. I like to read about the casting news and set reports. So, yeah. I support you, David and Dan, but we’ll have to disagree on this one.
“It’s crazy enough to be the person crawling through the bushes in Northern Ireland with a telescopic lens taking pictures – there are crazy people out there,” Benioff says. “But the idea that people want to go to sites and find out those spoilers … it’s like if there was a website called Last Pages of Great Books, would you read that?”
Yes, I would.
Great books are great books because there’s so much more in them than just how they end; which actually in many cases is the less important of things and not the main reason why someone wants and enjoys reading them.
This perspective of them is probably why many issues has increasingly occurred, season after season, between ASOIAF hard core fans and the GoT adaptation.
What are they supposed to say? Anybody in their situation would feel the same way. There is a huge difference between casting news/filming reports and sneaking onto set and taking pictures and filming video. I think they are specifically referencing the guy who hiked miles and miles to film the TOJ sequence and the person who snuck a picture of
What they are talking about is so subjective though.I understand the need that people judge your work as you intended it and fully realized but there are still people who like spoilers.Me for example,I adore spoilers I don’t think i have ever watched or read something without spoilers I seek them out myself.I am that person that always reads the last page of the book.I find it much more pleasurable if i know what’s coming,it doesn’t take from my viewing experience at all.So different strokes for different folks.
Also about the set pictures,i understand them to a point but i aslo think they should be a bit flattered that the show generates so much curiosity that people go to those lengths to take pictures.I am against people spoiling things to others who don’t want to be spoiled,but if someone doesn’t mind and seeks them out then what’s wrong with it?
I don’t think they are mean or anything. It’s clear they don’t like spoilers though.
It’s the guy in Spain crawling in the bushes like james bond to film TOJ that bothers them more. At least that’s what I got from this.
I’m not gonna deal in absolutes in saying 100% but I get where they’re coming from and I respect it. They’re the ones delivering the goods and however they see fit on the extent of keeping things under wraps is their prerogative.
“But the idea that people want to go to sites and find out those spoilers … it’s like if there was a website called Last Pages of Great Books, would you read that?”
Yes, I would actually, so deal with it.
I don’t like to waste my time on something that will end up disappointing me when it’s all said and done, so I’ll frequently read ahead or look up various plot points. It’s why I dumped Lost relatively early and don’t bother with TWD. I wish I had done the same thing with that dumb Divergent book series too.
And I’m also curious and knowing spoilers doesn’t diminish my enjoyment. I read a bunch of Captain America: Civil War spoilers yesterday, and I’m even more pumped to see the movie.
Well I knew the ending of How I met Your Mother before starting watching all the 9 seasons at once (wasn’t interested in before) and it was still very interesting ! What’s actually the matter ? Was then GRRM and book readers “the spoilereres” during the seasons 1-5 ?
Tim of House Deddings,
Yeah, I agree with you. As soon as they even hint that they are not even slightly bothered about spoilers it would create a whole lot of problems for them.
As long as sites make it clear what is a spoiler, then I see no problem to be honest. This site is very good at that, but there are some others who are not so good, so I can see where they are coming from.
I have to agree with Benioff.
If a guy in North Ireland wants to take pics, it’s a free country, but if you post them online you’re risking other people using them to spoil the show for others who may not want to get spoiled.
As for the spoiling news in WotW, I think the mods should ask themselves “Will the public find out about this even if we don’t post it?” before posting any spoiling new. If the answer is “No”, then perhaps you shouldn’t post it.
Let’s be realistic. Even if you don’t read spoilery news, a lot of people in WotW (and I’m not saying names) post spoilery comments without spoiler tags. Wether they do it out of malice or inexperience, I don’t know, but the experience is ruined anyway.
In principle that bit of advice would be excellent but in practicality I just see it playing out the way it is now. The ppl that get the info now will continue to do so.
Well…I am one of those folks who have been known to read the end of a story first… And still gone back to read the rest. Sometimes I like spoilers . sometime I don’t…. Thanks for making some available… But making us realize what we are doing at the time.
I really enjoy the sight. It also needs to be said that a certain unnamed writer, who we love, has created a void that needs to be filled. You can’t get us hooked like that and then leave us hanging.
Tim of House Deddings,
Maybe it makes them just feel uncomfortable that they just can’t go pee in the bushes, haha
There’s this thing called patience. ……
This from the guys who litter the show with fake
teases? That’s a tad ironic.
The very fact that they said something like this makes them id.io.ts.
People would have enough patience to read a book in 1 or 2 weeks and not jump to the last page.
But waiting for years for someone to finish a story………you bet your ass that people want to have closure.
Many of us will probably die before the end of ASoIaF or GoT will be out. People deserve to know.
I understand their frustration. Ok perhaps not understand, because I’m certainly not in their situation, but I sympathize. They and so many others put so much into this show, it has to be deflating when someone purposely seeks out something to spill. I mean, if I saw a drone hovering above my cubicle, I’d knock it down too, and my job isn’t nearly as interesting!
That said – regarding spoilers, you bet I read them and watch them. I watched all 4 leaked episodes in one go last year. Did I feel guilty? Not really. Was I right to watch them? Don’t know. Was it a long month until a ‘new’ episode? Darn right, and that’s on me. I DO read the last pages of books, I enjoy knowing what’s going to happen, and it doesn’t ruin the experience for me, if anything it enhances it.
I don’t see an issue with how this website does it’s reporting. It doesn’t step on toes and is respectful. Now, if someone found out something and didn’t tell me, but decided to dance in front of me boasting of their secret knowledge, sure I’d want to punch them in the face. Because I hate it when people act superior and ‘oh I know but I can’t TELL you…….’. Just don’t say anything then. Not a hint. 🙂 I was happy when they announced that they wouldn’t send out episodes for review in advance this year.
Bottom line – I get it, D&D. But I won’t avoid spoilers. I just won’t go trespassing on your lawn myself.
and the extra from Reddit
Hmm, this is a whole different animal than most other series. There is pre-existing canon that *should* have kept ahead of the show until the end, but it didn’t. It is ludicrous to assume that book readers suddenly in the dark wouldn’t want to know at least some of what is coming. If D&D weren’t making this show, I am willing to bet they would also want to know at least some spoilery stuff for their favorite books/show.
Personally, I like to know who is coming back and who has been cast and location stuff but I don’t like knowing whole plot lines or stories or big surprises. As someone up above said, if they would stop being so damn secretive about things like casting, there wouldn’t be as much of a market for spoilers. I understand why they might not want a video out there of Ian McShane announcing his secretive character, but there was no reason to protect us from Euron for god’s sake.
I, like some of the other commenters on this article, can see both sides of it. As someone who enjoys gobbles up the info. we get on filming and casting, I appreciate and enjoy the spoilers. At the same time, especially this season where they’re going beyond published material for the first time, and taking into account the first 4 episodes getting leaked last year, I can understand them having no tolerance for any kind of leaks.
I think the balance between posting some things, but not others, this site and the old one found is a good one.
Personally I enjoy a few little spoilers, nothing major, but little bits here and there….it’s kinda like foreplay before sex..gets you all excited and makes the sex better….but I’m a girl I like it like that…some people are o.k with wame bam.
The Pequod sinks. Is there now no reason to read Moby Dick?
Art stands up to spoilers. The artistry and interest is in the journey, how it’s acted and written and directed. I like GoT spoilers specifically because I think there’s so much depth to the acting and story that it therefore holds up, and has everything to offer whether I know the ending or not. I think D&D need to give their product and audience more credit.
I wonder if they feel the same way for what they are about to spoil from Winds of Winter?! Ummm…
Wait! I got it!!! They said they won’t spoil anything. Whew. That was a close one.
Fully support Watchers on the Wall on this. Having read the books this offseason and being able to follow some filming spoilers got me much more excited about the new season than the years before. Putting it to the test soon, if I’ll enjoy watching it as much, count me back in for next year!
Oh man I don’t think D&D would like my content much 🙁 lol
I’m naturally not a patient person. We’re all different.
About to spoil from what? Oh, you mean that non-existent pook.
John Bradley literally just said the same thing 2 days ago, not sure why people are freaking out about it now as opposed to 2 days ago.
So, the guy who took the telephoto picture in Saintfield is not on their Christmas list, huh?
Spoilers have never bothered me with TV series like this, because those specific plot points don’t make up the entire episode or season. Book readers have known the outcomes of the major plot twists well before they occur since the pilot episode and that doesn’t appear to hurt their enjoyment of the episodes. Not just book readers, but any fan who feels like just reading the ASOIAF wiki pages.
It’s just as interesting and fun to see how the writers get to that plot twist that you have already been spoiled on. It’s not so much about the twist itself. That feeling of shock and surprise only lasts a few minutes anyhow. I was still saddened and angry watching the FTW scene while knowing that it was coming. And I still enjoyed seeing how it came about.
That said, many don’t feel that way. They want to be shocked when any plot twist happens, and that’s great for them. I wouldn’t shame them for that either, as D&D seem to be doing here for people who enjoy spoilers. And for both pro-spoiler and anti-spoiler crowds, there will still be plenty of shocking moments that we aren’t spoiled on yet. It’s not as if we got scripts photocopies for the entire season.
Do you really not see a difference between D&D, who were given permission by GRRM to adapt ASOIAF for television (especially given when they began the show, they believed at the very least TWOW would be published before the show caught up), going beyond the published material, and the two guys who got the footage from the TOJ shoot and the battlefield (which, admittedly, I ate up)?
D&D have their point and the fans have theirs – just the way it is. Unfortunately, I do believe whoever leaked the episodes onto the Internet last year really stoked these fire and sort of ruined lots for both sides in the argument. That person was an A**
Did they ever find out who it was?
Has this interview with Liam been posted? He has so many it’s easy to lose track.
I am a writer. The best chapters end on a cliff hanger…demanding that the reader turns the page to find out what happens next.
Sometimes, I write the 1st draft on a public forum, like Wattpad, just so I can watch the readers dangle and speculate…so I know they’re excited about the story. Trust me…D&D are using the buzz, but I expect they’re as tired of it as we are by now. (The act, not the anticipation)
I get D&D don’t want certain things confirmed…on the other hand…they have made a masterpiece out of “teasing” the Jon Snow death. The buzz has been incredible, but you can’t have it both ways…
You say potato–I say po-tah-to
You say teaser–I say spoiler
If they don’t want spoilers, there are certain things they can do in the future:
1. Don’t adapt an existing work of fiction that includes an entire encyclopedia of world building with fully developed characters whose traits/skills/abilities the fans feel they know as well as they know themselves.
2. If you ignore #1, then don’t expect the readers and longtime fans to accept what is beyond what is reasonable within the fictional world for the characters, if you do go in a “different direction,” then expect to get called out on it. Even going beyond the existing source material doesn’t change what fans have learned about the world after reading thousands of pages.
3. Don’t act “outraged” when fans try to discover the truth about the very thing you’re teasing. D&D (and GRRM) killed a main protagonist as the last scene of a season, then inundated social media and press outlets with promotions and interviews featuring said “dead” character. It’s disingenuous and borders on patronizing.
4. Accept that for some viewers/readers, spoilers are part of the complete experience.
Shush you! Is is being written as we speak! Did you notice Martin doesn’t write more on NaB anymore?! I feel like doing a little dance.
I do think it is a weird view though when he judges others for spoiling tastes. I think to each his own. And no judging people who end up watching the series instead of waiting for the books either, eh?! if they are book fans. ( that would be me)
I think they overexagerate. Great stories are told not for shock or surprise. Everyone knows the contents of Hamlet or Makbeth but go to see them nonetheless. GoT also can be fully enjoyed only on the third or fourth rewatch, when you are able to start to pay attention to details. So, I think they could be more liberal towards spoilers and leaks with an exclusion of full episodes, of cause.
Note to self: Do not feed another troll
I believe that Dan and David consider this show as their child. To them, spoilers are like going up to a child and telling him/her certain things aren’t real.
As some other posters have written, I think their anger was directed mainly at that photographer and not the moderators of this website.
Since season 5 ended this has been the longest and most agonizing offseason. I finally don’t know where different parts of the story are going.
I come to this site everyday looking for every piece of information, including spoilers, I can find on my favorite show. To each of you working on this site I thank you so much for all of your hard work.
I love the show, I love David and Dan for bringing it to life on HBO and I love all the information I can find on this website.
D&D don’t want viewers to be able to get spoilers, but are unconcerned with spoiling the plot lines for the books readers. They have been working on this show for over 6 years, while GRRM has been working on it for over 20 years. Who’s the spoiler now?
Omg I spat out my tea laughing.
When she does that shoulder shimmy to Bieber, glorious!!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
We are discussing the “spoiling” part that pertains to the enjoyment of the original material, the fans and his inability to understand why some would chose to spoil themselves, not how they got to spoil it whether money changed hands or the author agreed to it. He sounds pretty strict and on the judgemental side. I don’t agree.
i’m Guilty when it comes to looking up Spoilers, I can’t help myself most of the time.
Reading the spoilers gets me Hyped for the show even more, besides actually watching the events unfold on screen is a whole new beast, of course not knowing what’s going to happen is really fun.
But I get what D&D are saying, Respect.
Any thoughts on this ‘spoiler’? Looks like it’s taken from a Behind the Scenes video, but I’ve never seen this exact shot before. It was theorised that the blood was forming into the shape of a dragon’s wings, but I never saw it until coming across this pic….
Hee I am the exact same way! (I esp do it if I am not sure I want to finish it. Sometims knowing the ending gets me more interested in what happens in the story
I understand them, esp after last year’s fiasco. I think they did a good job keeping their cards close to their chest and doing what they could to avoid problems. But to blame fan sites, esp this one that takes such care in what it posts, is just wrong headed and not realistic. The spoilers are out there, and if they are published, they are fair game. I like how the mods here structure their posts so they let the readers know that there are spoilers below to protect the Unsullied.. I suspect however that other sites are not as vigilant. So while I agree that fans shouldn’t spoil the story for others, s, fans should know that if they don’t want to be spoiled, they shouldn’t read articles or sites about the show.
I would also be very angry if a fan trying to get a photo either got hurt, or caused an actor or show member to get hurt. Huge liability as well as safety issue here and i think its right of DD to be concerned. Just don’t blame the rest of us.
Pfft. GRRM had his chance. He blew it.
Many people started reading the books because they wanted to know what happens next: «I once brought a jackass and a honeycomb to a brothel…»
Spoilers fulfill the same need. Like Robin Arryn, we want to know what happens next.
As creators, D&D want to give us the answer on their own terms.
It’s easy to understand their frustration. But should be easy for them to understand our need, too. And take it as a compliment.
That Extra from Reddit was legit wasn’t he ? or we still don’t know ?
have the link ?
Was just about to post that. Yet again Liam manages to talk a lot without saying much. 😉 But, anyway, it was a nice read.
Oh my god, that’s the most adorable thing I’ve ever seen!
People seeing stuff that isn’t there.
I agree completely with what WinterPhil said. Let’s narrow it down a bit, as well. To be honest, 95 % of the GoT viewership around the world has probably never seen a single set photo during the shooting season, or ever bothered to look up info on sites like these. Most of them have watched one, maybe two trailers before the season airs. So, to put this into perspective, this concers only 5 % (or maybe less) of the viewership.
Yes, that is us. And yes, these are the hardcore fans. My interest in the show during the off-season has absolutely nothing to do with a desire to read “the last pages of great books”. I don’t want to know who lives, or who dies. What I do want to know is if certain characters are cast, and who plays them. I’m curious to see at what locations they film, and which new locations we will come across. I like to hear which actors are coming back, especially those who we haven’t seen for some time. None of this can be seen as a spoiler, as it is out of context and provides little to no info on the story. I applaud this site that they hold things back that are simply too big. Perhaps D&D don’t know this.
But am I an asshole for being interested in the filming process of a new season? For wanting to know whether we get to see Sunspear, or Oldtown? Get to meet Euron Greyjoy or Randyll Tarly? Get to see Walder Frey and the Tully’s again? I would argue that massive interest should be seen as a compliment, not pushed away as some unfortunate, annoying inconvenience.
That said, if we look at the bigger picture, D&D should really shut up about this. It weren’t the fans that leaked the first four episodes of season 5, or released inside the episode featurettes of multiple (5-6-7) episodes before the episode aired, or failed to prevent the leaking of spoilery pictures from the final two episodes. That is a way bigger deal, as that really spoils the fun. Hopefully they’ve realised this (as is indicated by their measures)
Off, but there is a new scoop on Season 6 from TV Guide Magazine
I haven’t seen that one before, not really sure.
I don’t agree with their comments at all. But the comparison to them “spoiling” unpublished book content is just asinine. The assumption is that they know what is in TWOW and are writing it in their show, which is extremely presumptuous to say the least. Both parties have said before that they only know a basic outline of where things are heading to in the final conclusion.
Even if that were the case and they did write in a bunch of plot points that will spoil parts of the book, it’s not something under their control. They can’t take a season off the show just to allow GRRM to publish the book. Whereas fans and the media do have a choice in whether or not they post spoilers or consume them.
I don’t think they were trying to shame their biggest fans at all. I count myself in the group of biggest fans, and I don’t feel shamed at all. They’re shaming the assholes who sneak onto their set and go out of their way to leak a huge secret that the filmakers went out of their way to do everything to protect. They feel as if the people who go to ridiculous lengths to spoil their show are the psychos.
I also can’t disagree more with D & D. I just can’t watch anything without knowing at least the synopsis.
I feel very bad with spoilers, I hate when some apathetic troll starts opening up his big mouth just for the sake of chaos, actually my interest in this site is like the first time ever where I feel need to know something else of what’s about to happen. And it’s a very different experience, not just like an urge to know how the book ends so that you can tell people that you read it and simply stop minding about the rest of the book, but more like trying to understand how the book is written and what’s about to come for characters that you do care so much, at least for me. I also never saw in this site any death spoilers, just situations that don’t diminish the dramatic potential of the scenes when they play out. For example, we know now about episode 9, riverrun, ToJ and stuff, but we don’t truly know what will make the history follow this path, so part of the fun is in considering the causations and possibilities of direction that the story might take not based solely in spoilers but also in the hints that the show itself gave us, and sometimes because of that, we end up really surprised because the tinfoil hat is so convincing that we start to believe it blindly! And I think it’s all ’cause we care a lot about the characters and the whole universe of the series, not like those pitiful trolls that care about nothing at all. But anyway, I understand their position too, after all, though the spoilers can be filtered, the people that read them cannot.
That dragon needs some serious physio.
Some people are taking it as if it’s legit and, true, some of the stuff he posted seems to be correct. There have been a few other “extras” who have either said he is wrong or right. So, so far, it hasn’t been proven.
So what are they supposed to do wait another 20 years and hope that he may finish the next book?
I like coming to this site for news and to share my excitement and opinion on all things GoT or even slightly related to GoT.
I like hearing other fan’s opinions and theories.
It is fun to come here and speculate with others.
I think the only kind of spoiling that should be looked down upon are the blatant attempts at it. For instance, going into an unsullied thread and spilling the beans on things yet to happen in the show that we, as book readers and internet miners, know is going to happen. That is unacceptable and rarely happens. Even on those rare occasions mods usually delete the post pretty quickly.
Otherwise this site gives us ample warnings of any possible spoilers telling us if we click this thread there may be some spoiler info. We all pretty much click it because we are excited to see if what we think is going to happen will happen and hear each others thoughts about it.
What is so devilish about any of this?
Whoa! Don’t jump the shark!
D&D aren’t “shamming” their biggest fans, I highly doubt the biggest fans would go out of their way to spoil a major plot of the show.
I had the books spoiled for me by YouTube comments when the season 1 trailer came out. It wasn’t a fan who wrote the comment it was someone who went onto Wikipedia and read who died and posted it on every Game Of Thrones video they could find.
People did the same thing with The Last Kingdom spoilers, they look up the books, read the plot on Wikipedia and off they go.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
well it’s already deleted, but some things that were mentioned there, also appeared in the last trailer, so it could all be true, but still … unless the producers don’t comment on those things, it could be considered a fake, so they just confirm the spoilers with their words. In the previous discussions for the Trailer 2 there was a link for the screenshot of that Reddit article, good luck with a search in 700+ comments 😉
I understand their position, but they should not judge my handling of information about books or tv shows. I am a person who tends to read the last page of the book. I do not do it always and usually only when I have already read at least half of the book. It sounds weird but at a certain point I sometimes can enjoy a book much more when I know how it ends. If I do not know how it ends I start at some point to just rush through the pages, not even reading everything, and want to finish the book as fast as possible. If I know the end or at least know some key points I often enjoy each detail and the book much more.
Regarding TV shows I do not want to know the exact end, I would never watch the last episode before watching the rest but it’s comforting for me to know the general direction or some key points. I also do not want to know everything, I want to celebrate the watching. Therefore, last year I did not watch the four leaked episodes before the official airing. But as a book reader I knew still the key points of the story and I also knew about the major deaths (Mance Ryder, Barristan Selmy) in the first 4 episodes, that was ok for me.
For me WatchersontheWall is a perfect mixture. I guess they know more about the plotlines but they do not give all away and I appreciate that. With some leaked set photos and castings, I have a vague knowledge what will happen in this season and that is enough for me to enjoy the show also this year. Knowing nothing would be annoying for me, I would not feel comfortable without having a feeling or a vague concept what will happen this season. I am just that type of person and I do not feel guilty for that. People are different, e.g. my husband does not even watch all official clips because he does not want to know too much and wants to be surprised. For me, a complete surprise regarding all plots this season would be annoying.
For me I love spoilers! It enhances the watching experience for me and I’m captivated because I have an idea/know exactly of what’s going to happen. It’s the writing and the developing of the story that’s rich not the waiting for every surprise around the corner.
Last pages of great books? Ridiculous comparison. Unless someone actually leaked the ending of season 6. D&D still think the
twist is the biggest twist ever. It’s not. Even casual viewers won’t be surprised.
Well I think I know where they coming from. Its like what John Bradley said on Conan, only he was more articulate in my opinion. They do work their asses off to bring us a top quality programme & want to tell the story at their own pace & don’t want viewers to jump ten pages ahead.
Having said that,Its a totally a viewer’s discretion to know what he/she wants or doesn’t want to know. People are voluntarily choosing to click on the sites & links,nobody is forcing their hand. & In my personal opinion spoilers don’t really bother me,but they add to my excitement manifold. With this show especially I knew every major storyline in advance & that didn’t make me any less obsessed.
I think its important to remember that the show airs for 2 months in a year & is on a hiatus for 10 freakin months. So the posts on websites like this help keep the conversations flowing & the anticipation going. If they take away all the news we get during the break,they will kill some of the buzz they work so hard for.
This. I knew how Anna Karenina would die before starting the novel because I had seen the film – the old Greta Garbo one. I was really interested to find out more about her feelings, her suffering which had led her to that decision. And I wanted to know all the details about other characters I liked (Kitty, Levin) and the whole world of 19th century Russian aristocracy. It’s only one of the many examples when I enjoyed a good book after watching the film first.
But Mr. Weiss, whose work I deeply admire, considers I’m insane.
I’m not sure how one is supposed to get that from this:
“I wonder if they feel the same way for what they are about to spoil from Winds of Winter?! Ummm…
Wait! I got it!!! They said they won’t spoil anything. Whew. That was a close one.”…
From that, it appeared you were attempting to compare two things that are not really alike.
Maid of Tits and Dragons,
thanks, don’t worry i’ll find it XD
Well that is not something to be proud of. Patience is a virtue, lol.
Found it XD
I think that photo of Kit on set might have pissed them off really badly. But then, to have this sort of “Cliffhanger” is risky.
I respect the guys very much and I can see where they are coming from, but to be honest, I must say, for me, the idea of needing to keep it tight for 100% in this day and age comes off as kind of out-of-touch.
I agree with GeekFurious on this one. Be the gatekeeper and try to communicate more with your fans (HBO that is). Why not use that makingofgameofthrones website more? I very much enjoyed Peter Jackson’s so-called Production Diaries during the filming of The Hobbit, why not make it a regular thing for Thrones? IMO they could very easily open up a bit without spoiling the finished season. For instance, I don’t understand why the feel the need to be so secretive about new locations or casting news. It only keeps people talking about it.
Again, this idea to keep people abstinent for 9 months is doomed to fail and only make everyone involved sour. So I appreciate this site very much and I agree with many here that the journey to the next season with all the casting news etc. and fun speculation with people on this site is a big part of the whole experience and I wouldn’t wanna miss it.
Some interesting tidbits in there. Bran’s and Arya’s sections have got me more excited for their storylines.
The problem is the lang break in betreten Shows. I wouldn’t care about Spielers or aktiven look for them if i could enjoy the Show on a regular Basis. But as you have to weit for 10 months and have not eben the Chance to search the books anymore, its kind of only too human, to find out, how its ging on. And please dont User this old “last pages of famous books” reference. As a books, i read at my pace. However i have chosen. Maybe everything in a few nights, maybe i restrict myself so it lasts a year. But i am in Charge. With a TV Show you’re depending on the people who choose to Show you the Story at a vertagt time. Stupid comparison – i’m a little disapointed by D&D. But only a little 😉
A friend once told me that the story I want to tell is not always the story people want to hear. So I might want to tell a story that builds with anticipation and cliffhangers, but people might not enjoy the anticipation and cliffhangers. A good portion of the GoT fandom seems that way.
It’s hard to accept that other people don’t see your work in the same way you do. D&D see GoT as a certain thing, a epic story that builds to a crescendo. But in this case, especially considering how long it’s been since the first book was published, that point of enjoyable anticipation has passed.
Take The Walking Dead. I enjoyed the first season and the cliffhanger because I thought it was going somewhere. Fastforward to the cocktease of Glenn’s dumpster dive and this latest black screen piece of enjoyment denial and fuck that show. I won’t watch it ever again because I don’t enjoy that tease anymore.
I do not enjoy the long tease of GoT. I just don’t. So I seek out every spoiler and would totally drone the fuck out of filming if I could. I don’t expect D&D to like the fact that I want to enjoy the show in a way that is different from the way they want me to enjoy it.
But you know, sometimes I eat my dessert first too.
Agree with WinterPhil and most of the comments here. It’s understandable how frustrated they are about spoilers, but that’s not a reason to be, to use their own phrasing, assholes to their fans about it.
I also work in TV for a show that people have in the past tried to (or accidentally) spoiled, one episode even recently. And while it’s definitely annoying, I also understand that no one does it maliciously – they do it because they love the show and are excited about it. Besides, every other show would LOVE to have the kind of popularity and fan engagement that GoT has and would happily deal with people trying to spoil it in exchange.
There have been no extras who said he’s wrong. Actually apparently L7R confirmed some of the reddit spoilers from him are true, while others are embellished and incomplete.
“The long break in between shows…”
Just look at their smug fucking faces.
I support Beinoff and Weiss 100%.
So glad thks season wasn’t spoiled like last season. Going into this season relatively fresh in 10 days is going to be awesome.
There was one guy who posted here. It was on the original thread that this was being discussed (if I could remember which it was I’d copy and paste what he said). He said he was an extra and that some of what the redditor said was correct, but most was not, so just to ignore his post.
oh Thanks again ^^
Daniel Portman HYPE.
Jack Bauer 24,
Maid of Tits and Dragons,
True. People keep reading great books because they enjoy the journey, the writing, and the characters. We all know how they end, but it’s the story that’s captivating. It’s like someone complaining that the ending of Romeo and Juliet got spoiled and nothing matters anymore.
Quite a few tidbits there! Great to see confirmation (of sorts) that the WW will infiltrate WW Central. My guess is Bloodraven does an Obi-Wan and sacrifices himself so Bran and co can escape. I saw a clip of Hodor, Meera and Bran running in the behind the scenes video but Hodor is absent in the trailer shots of Meera… Could it be that Hodor gets Hodor’ed by the Hodor?
I think their comments this year are incredibly bizarre. First, the show won’t spoil anything from the books. This is nonsense if we’re to believe….them. The same guys who said last year they met with George at his house for 2 weeks to be walked through “character by character” (Benioff’s words) how it ends. Now it won’t spoil the books?
And this comment is bizarre. It’s a shot at a site like this. No spinning it any other way. You cannot say it’s only a shot at the idiot hiding in the bushes taking photos. It’s more than just that. It makes zero sense to go after an ally.
Nobody’s perfect 😉
Haven’t read comments yet so maybe it’s been asked, but I’m curious; without spoiling anything do you guys know a lot more about this season than us readers realize??
Well, let’s just say that everything he or she said is at least consistent with what we saw in the most recent trailer, and the Reddit comments were made before that trailer came out.
EXACTLY. When I read a great book, I don’t read the ending first. But I know it’s there.
When I binge a good show, I don’t watch the finale first. But I know it’s there.
When Dickens released some of his best books in serial form-mobs met ships from England at the docks demanding to know what happened to Little Nell.
Hmmm, so you have an extremely successful TV show on your hand that has thousands of rabid fans.
Sorry D&D. I don’t feel sorry for you. The thirst of the fans for news, casting or otherwise, comes with the territory.
Suck it up, buttercup.
P.S. Patience is a virtue I lack. 🙂
Interesting interview with Hellen Mirren and Iain Glen: https://youtu.be/WSg_BjXx5O4
Helen in Thrones would have been fantastic! and I think that Iain gives away more than he should with his answer.
I get their feelings. Can you imagine how angry Tolkien might be if someone took a photo of one of the last pages of LotR and proved that Frodo would survive Mordor? Or JK Rowling’s rage if someone leaked the last page of the Harry Potter book online before it was released? Writers are protective of their work and they’ve never been okay with people robbing them of their ability to reveal knowledge and story beats the way they want to reveal them. I think we’re so used to spoilers from television shows we don’t think how that’s a relatively new thing, for bits of stories to be revealed before the creator’s were okay with it. It is kind of dickish to purposely go out and take pictures for the purpose of spoiling a person’s work of art. If someone did that for a book series – trespasses on property to take pictures of a manuscript – we wouldn’t be surprised by the anger of the authors towards those trespassers.
I also don’t feel entitled to spoilers just because I want to read them. Reading the end of a book isn’t really comparable to reading spoilers; that would be more like waiting for the whole season to be out and watch the last episode before deciding to watch the rest of it. I think that strikes writers, who work so hard to structure the story a certain way, as very perplexing, but it doesn’t cross any ethical boundaries, imo. That’s very different, tho, than reading/watching a part of the story before the creator has even released it.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
This is what the Wotw article worte:
I agree with WinterPhill’s take on it. When I read the EW article, I had the same feeling, like I’m supposedly doing something wrong because I am also a reader first, and the show will eventually spoil something for me, so why am I watching it?! In that regard the situations are quite similar for me.
I wondered if the producers would feel the same way if they are the ones who spoil others. However they came out specifically to say a while ago, that it won’t be the case. Many don’t believe it. And even in the probability that they referred to the enjoyment, rather than the actual events of the book, it still sounds to me like a different tune.
Here’s a great big spoiler for you all: George won’t finish the books.
I think the thing D&D are forgetting is that there are different classes of spoilers. They shouldn’t worry themselves about new characters/locations and minor plot points leaking. Those sorts of things aren’t going to spoil anyone’s enjoyment of the series at all. It’s when character deaths and episodes leak that there is a problem. This site only does the former, so I don’t see it as a great crime at all. But, I do realise that it must be very painful for them when the latter happens, so I do sort of see why their remarks were a little strong.
Have you learned nothing? Have we not invested enough time and energy in bringing you into The Light? Martin has been “three or four months” away from completion for nearly a year now. He’s been spending most of his time contriving another Mayonnaise Knot to sell to his publisher as cause for his delay.
“I swear I almost had it, but Dexter Fowler came out of fucking nowhere!”
They did say that “certain key elements will be the same”, so perhaps what they should have said is that they will spoil some elements/plot points in the upcoming books (that is, IF they ever come), but not all…
As for George’s opinion on whether there are going to be book spoilers; after reading the story treatments for season six, answering a fan question in his Not a Blog he posted that “There will be spoilers…it is what it is.”
Not “asinine”, surely! Don’t be a skimmer Ron Snow. No one likes to directly exchange opinions with a TL:DR type of poster. I think they won’t truly spoil Winds. I was however typing tongue in cheek there riffing on some earlier article where they said they won’t. Sorry for that but I hate being serious all the time.
They probably do know what’s in the book but I have no doubt that it will veer off enough so it won’t be an actual spoiler. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.
is this guy legit? SPOILER ALERT
I absolutely agree w Winter Phil. At the same time, D&D have a very different perspective on this whole process and we should allow them their opinions. This site and WIC are commendable. I’m glad that you’ve held back on real spoilers and covered up anything that would truly “spoil” our experience. Well done. But of course, we are always dying for news. I don’t think that the sort of news that you report “spoils” anything.
Nah, it’s been debunked.
No. Those are fake.
I read is as they just wanted to express that the books will still be worth reading and contain a lot of things that don’t make it into the show…
As a fan who has quite often read and enjoyed spoilers, I’m gonna have to agree with Benioff and Weiss. The fans are generally awful when it comes to spoilers. The number of spoilers I’ve accidentally read about the Episode 9 Battle this season alone, through all the improperly marked spoiler codes, or no spoiler codes at all…And frankly, some of the reactions here are bordering on entitlement. As if the fans have earned spoilers, somehow. As if Benioff and Weiss are somehow assholes to not want people knowing what happens in the story they’re creating months before it’s released, in the order they intended. And I do hate to use the entitlement, given how much I’ve been accused of the same with regard to GRRM and his books. It would be better if as little as possible were leaked, especially big stuff.
Further, half of the time speculation on this site has descended into ridiculous assumptions about an episode, or pre-emptive judgement. People reading spoilers and immediately saying “Man, that sounds awful/disappointing/boring”, about scenes and episodes they have practically zero context for. It’s bizarre and it happens every year. Not to mention that some of these spoilers come from genuine douchebags like that ToJ guy, or the Episode 9 extra who broke his NDA (a thank you to this site for not making an article about that), with people justifying and encouraging that douchebaggery by giving it attention and spreading it everywhere.
This is obviously largely not directed at the lovely staff members of this site, and assorted others who are great (you know who you are).
Rosebud was a clitoris.
I think the signs are there Mr. Sprite. So we’ll get both season 6 AND Winds in the same year. Isn’t this exciting?! I was about to quit watching but: TOJ! And freaking Riverlands and Ironborns and blegh! I get too excited already. And let’s not forget Aidan Gillen…
Team BENIOFF and WEISS. Look, I enjoy spoilers, but I feel guilty about it. And the fact is, I enjoy the show more when I’m unsullied. If I were in their shoes, I’d be furious about spoilers and the rest of the undeserved shit they take.
Hmmm, I think Rosebud was that in “real life” (William Randolph Hearst) but it was just a nostalgic childhood memory for Kane in the movie…
Don’t blame D&D for continuing with the story despite the fact GRRM has fallen behind. The only person to blame for it is GRRM, he’s simply a very slow writer or someone who took on too many projects at the same time. What were D&D supposed to do? Put the show on hold until WoW was published? Please. That would have been beyond stupid.
In 1960 I knew what the big spoiler was for Hitchcock’s Psycho and … it did not spoil it for me!
I don’t see what Weiss was trying to accomplish with the Anna Karenina example other than to come across as a pretentious douche. 99% of people haven’t read or seen Anna Karenina so he’s therefore spoiling something that most people didn’t know about, completely contradicting his point. Probably would’ve been better to use a more obvious example like Empire Strikes Back or the 6th Sense.
Aside from that, I do agree with them. If you want to tell me you’re over excited and don’t have the will power to avoid spoilers and don’t mind them, fine. But to say knowing what’s going to happen before it actually happens makes it better, I have a hard time believing that.
Hmm…. I love little spoilers/teasers and hate big ones like what happened in Season 5.
All in all, I am Team Benioff and Weiss.
Some things are amazing to me – people who click on posts here that you KNOW will have spoilers because IT SAYS SO and then you act indignant when you read a spoiler. Blame yourself if you can’t resist clicking on a post, rather than everyone else who wanted to read it and discuss.
I empathize with their feelings on spoilers, but it really has zero effect on the success or popularity of the show. Every year ratings go up as does the way the show resonates in popular culture. No one thinks “oh shit I read x spoiler out of context, can’t watch the show now!” So if anything this is berating the most loyal and devoted of fans – people who actually care enough about the show to spend all hiatus on fansites and message boards!
Btw what paparazzi reporter?
Oh wow. A top secret scene with Bran and Bloodraven that will break fans’ hearts?!? Some type of flash forward surely?
Shakespeare is ubiquitous, of course it cannot be avoided. But surprises and shocks are part of a story, acting as if they are not is bizarre. The reason many books are considered great is their ability to break convention, to surprise in various ways. Authors structure and write their books in a way that reveals information as they want it to be revealed, by knowing that information in advance you are removing part of the experience as intended. And out of context, the impact is lessened, or at least not the same as it was intended to be . Which isn’t to say it can’t be enjoyable, but unlike re-watching, you cannot replace that experience.
Also give me a fucking break DAVID AND DAN YOUR ENTIRE SHOW IS A SPOILER FOR A MAN’S LIFE’S WORK!!!!!
You can say all you want things are going to be soooo different on the show but that’s bullshit D&D. You’re spoiling GRRM’s great work, a series that people have loved for decades, and while we might all be super thrilled about it, to act like spoilers are morally repugnant is pretty rich coming from you….
And even if the show just spoils little things and not every plotline…well that’s what spoilers here are! Little pieces here and there, not the whole picture
I think D&D are wrong! the fans that use these sites have a passion for the program. Spoilers are a part of everything these days. i haven’t felt like anything on here has ruined it for me. Communities like this one, have fans what talk about the show whether it is on here or in there social groups which promotes viewing stats. Without us you don’t have a show!
Anna Karenina is literally one of the most famous and widely read novels of time. How in the hell is that being pretentious, this isn’t “In Search of Lost Time” he’s referencing here. It’s been made into countless adaptations. I find it unlikely that 99% of people haven’t read or seen it, or don’t know the ending.
I am fairly sure the book comes out late this year. But I would not be surprised if it doesn’t. You may not have checked the NAB recently, but George Martin doesn’t sound hopeful that it is coming out in 2016.
So there’s that.
That’s GRRMs fault
He new they were adapting his books and had tons of time to finish if he really wanted to – sorry I don’t think thats fair argument
I’m very curious about it.
The hell are they supposed to do? Not write new episodes until The Mountain that Bides stops dicking around?
Watership Down spoiler: the rabbit dies.
I suppose D&D and HBO should sod off because GRRM has utterly failed? And that is entirely on GRRM for selling his work, GRRM spoiled it himself. They paid him a bloody ton for the privilege, and you bet your ass GRRM is enjoying every penny. This is not the story of a big bad corporation screwing a kindly old writer over.
C’mon…most people (especially the GoT audience) haven’t read Anna Karenina or seen any of the movies. Hence why it’s pretentious as hell to reference a Tolstoy book as some work that everyone knows the ending to. Even if I said 10% were familiar, that is still an insanely low number.
I agree WinterPhil! If you don’t like spoilers, don’t seek them out, dip shits.
I have read some of the comments and I can see both sides for sure.
Everyone here knows I am a spoiler free fan.
I don’t like knowing what happens, but I understand and respect that others like to know what will happen to get them more excited.
But I do respect and understand where D&D are coming from. They work 365 days a year on this (so muchhh time and money goes into ten hours of tv) and they have done everything in their power to protect the show so that fandom can enjoy it spoiler free (someone mentioned in a comment that 90% of the fandom do not visit fan sites) so i am referring to them. I think this stems mostly from the leaked episodes and from the fans who sneak on to sets and take photos. When you “sneak” into some where you are kind of doing something illegal. Its like sneaking into a concert – that is wrong. Or in terms of leaks, stealing exams at university. This is private property (until its released on TV – then that’s a different story) And then these people go and post things online, and things go viral. My friend got spoilt because she was listening to the radio and the radio host started discussing a spoiler. She didn’t tell me what but by the time the host said spoiler alert she didn’t have time to turn the radio off. yes this is on the radio host who should be more weary but spoilers cause these things. Someone else i know saw a spoiler on the internet without going out and looking for it.
I don’t think D&D were taking jabs at the fandom here, I think they were talking about the ones that go on set and take pictures or videos (seriously videos??? that’s crazy hahaha).
With that said, to the mods who run this site, I have to say as an unsullied, I have been able to remain unsullied while still being able to visit this site every day 🙂 so I think you all are doing a good job. Some people should spoiler tag more in comments on posts that are made for all audience (and not just sullied) but that’s the only thing I would say about that.
I think the fact he’s willing to take an interview of King in June coupled with the fact that he said (on NaB btw) that he’d be willing to write scripts for season 7 if he finishes WoW (scripts for the 7th start soon-ish), plus his remark that he would participate in that thingy- accepting a Honorary doctorate at some university, puts the probability of him finishing by June.
Don’t say it. Don’t even try it buster! I have high hopes.
PS. I didn’t yet finish Watership Down. You should be ashamed. (Just kidding! I’m always reading the last pages LOL)
I never said it was. I said that it’s insanely hypocritical to act like spoilers are the devil. They’re going to make a shit ton spoiling the series, and there’s NO evidence that spoilers hurt them at all.
Nor should THEY act like the victims.
Normally I’m not very into spoilers. I might seek out some of them here and there, but it usually never goes past casting and trailers. GoT is a diffrent beast however. Funny enough it isn’t so much that I have to know what is coming in the show, it’s the fact that I want to be part of the discussion in this community of which I have been a part of for years now, so if spoilers get posted here I will most likely read them. A big part of what makes this community fun is to hunt for clues and at least sketch-out the next season.
Hell, even GRRM gave us spoilery clues back in the froggy-days and that was when he was part of the writing team! And that isn’t even going into the old campagne days, when HBO had spoilers as reward for us in the form of scenes of season 1. – I think to release tons of spoilers in the form of promos yourself and at the same time looking down on people who “want to go to sites and find out those spoilers” (even though it’s not D&D directly who releases them, but their employer) is a bit absurd. I can undrestand D&Ds position, I even agree with it for the most part, but let’s not forget that a) a big part of TV-series fan comunities is the discussion of the upcoming season and that of cause includes spoilers and b) HBO is maybe the biggest spoiler provider around. 😉
Aw, c’mon: Dexter strolling through the woods singing “I’m a lumberjack and I’m OK, I sleep all night and I work all day!”
Yes, that is exactly what you were implying. No, it isn’t hypocritical, GRRM fucked up. They have no choice in that regard. And yes, people leaking massive plot details and episodes, that would very naturally upset them.
Furthermore, the books will likely never be finished. Not even sure if it can be called a spoiler at that point.
And no one doesn’t watch because of those leaks. Few are going to have sympathy for this cry me a river attitude from D&D.
I read that too today on NAB and was a bit surprised because I seem to have read somewhere else that with the show diverging from the books, writing an episode would be too confusing for him, so that he’d probably abstain from writing anymore episodes in the future.
Has anyone else read that? For the life of me, I can’t remember where I got that from…
My stance has always been that if you want to be completely in the dark with regards to upcoming season, then don’t read the comments sections or articles with spoiler taglines. For the first 4 seasons, I watched the show and the inside GoT and that was all. As my obsession with the show grew, I couldn’t help myself but to search out for extra info/content online, which is how I found WiC, then subsequently Watchers. Even though I visit this site daily, often multiple times, I still feel like I can enjoy the new episodes and be shocked/surprised. Just because I know certain events will take place in specific episodes does not mean that the way those events will play out are somehow spoiled by my awareness of them. D&D seem like a couple of really stressed out fellas.
As of a couple of years ago, the biggest core of GoT watchers were male professionals in their late 30’s to late 40’s. I doubt that there is any one book that most of them have read, but this is a demographic that will be reading Tolstoy, Dickens, Faulkner, etc., more than any other. Indeed, what is impressive is that Thrones does very well in demographics where “epic fantasy” is equated with socially awkward teenagers about whom the neighbors will say “Yeah, that one was always weird” after they get put away for cybercrime or serial murders.
Rather disingenuous with a wiff of elitism . They don’t appear to have issues with bombarding fans with endless promotional interviews, products and teasers just don’t you unwashed get too frisky. Bah,. Good job here, no one is forced into spoilage. Lighten up guys and enjoy the laurels of success. Even those from Flea Bottom deserve a bit of harmless fun
Oh, an Honorary Doctorate from an ag school? Very prestigious. That would have nothing to do with him donating his margin notes to Texas A&M’s library. He earned it.
Call me back when he gets one from his alma mater, Northwestern, who couldn’t bring themselves to slap a doctorate on him but gave him a set of steak knives instead. They have standards, you see.
People probably won’t watch it live, or when it is intended to be watched if it leaks. Last year there were quickly spoilers and screenshots everywhere. How many people have sympathy is irrelevant. All that is clear is that you don’t, and you blame D&D for GRRM’s lack of foresight and greed.
I’m well aware of what the article said, as I read it, too. While I do understand whence D&D’s comments come, I tend to agree with Phil, as well, insofar as it does come off as rather judgemental, and stated I believe this site strikes a great balance between posting certain information, and being respectful and not letting out everything they know. However, I stand by my observation your comparison between D&D going beyond the published material and the guys sneaking around to obtain pictures from closed sets is not valid. It’s certainly your prerogative to think what you think, just as it is mine to think what I think.
OMG these arguments that D&D are spoiling the books are hilariouuuuuussssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss !!!!!!!!!!
Why does it look like they’re about to drop the biggest rap album of all time?
Really, late 30s early 40s male professionals are reading Tolstoy? You do realize this is 2016 not 1916? Most people don’t read anything, never mind classical literature. I guarantee you most people have no clue about Anna Karenina. That’s how it is in the US at least.
I don’t care what anyone thinks. I’m in this for me, no one else. I’ve been reading the books since I was 17 all the way back in 1998. I’m 35 years old now, I’ve been agonizing over Jon’s parentage, R+L=J, Jon’s ability to warg, The Grand Northern Conspiracy, Dany’s slow crawl to Westeros, and countless other conspiracies, subplots, and mysterious character developments for nearly 20 years. To me D&D are relatively knew to the Game, the fact that they have created a tv show adaptation to entertain us on our journey doesn’t lessen the fact that I’ve been committed to this story for half my life. ASOIAF is my favorite book series, and GoT is one of my favorites tv series, so I do respect GRRM and D&D’s creative efforts, but honestly, GTFO if you think I’m going to be shamed into giving up pursuing pieces of a story that I have spent years of my life and invested hundreds of dollars on. If GRRM was a little more disciplined with his writing I wouldn’t be such a fiend for any information I could get my hands on. I’m not hating on the guy, like I said ASOIAF is my favorite book series, but come on man, Robert Jordan cranked out 14 one thousand page books in roughly the same amount of time that it took GRRM to write 5. Of course we’re going to be information starved and seeking out answers to mysteries we’ve been trying to solve for two decades.
Are we seriously equating not having access to leaked info about a TV show with a Class issue? Something tells me that no-one on this site is a member of the huddled proletarian masses.
Catch the Throne Vol. 2
There have been very few shows or even movies I have anticipated American Sniper was the last one and the one before that was Star Wars E-1 which was a major letdown. In TV Before GOT it was Babylon 5 so with that many years before i can find a show that sparks my curiosity and anticipation you can see i dont get hyped much.
I have been a GOT fan before HBO and though there has been some serious deviation from books i do enjoy the show. As a fan of something very well done with what they can from such an expanded world they do well.
That said D&D need to be taken down a few pegs they aint that great its the story, cast and entire crew. People are excited for this show and those two arrogant twits need to understand that and understand without the passionate fans the show would fall flat on its face as without ratings their would be no show.
As to This site i read it for a long time before finally posting and did not want to accidentally post spoilers for show viewers. Imagine the damage all those who knew About red wedding could have done had we said anything… This site does a great job and D&D should be thanking it for keeping the fans engaged during the 42 weeks between seasons which would typically kill a show.
Storm of Rhymes, A Dance of Gangsters, A Feast for Thugs, A Clash of Pimps.
I’m sorry, but this is just dumb. There is NO evidence that is true. Spoilers and the spoiler hunt increases EVERY year and every year ratings go up. It’s the most popular show and the most pirated show.
You have zero evidence that someone finds out one small plot point and goes “yeah I don’t need to watch.” Hell, a picture of Kit and everyone is like HOLY SHIT CANNOT WAIT!!!
There are spoilers – leaking entire episodes or clips and pictures of episodes that weren’t meant for release before the episode air date – and then there is news. The fact that members of the cast lied about a certain person being on set for filming Season 6 begged for fans to prove them wrong. Begged.
I do love that he had a codename, though. I wonder what it was? Lord Dragonson. Ser Phantom. Prince Icy Hot. Curlylocks.
After seven years, each one more stressful than the last, they’ve earned the right to rant and vent, whether one agrees or not. Hopefully they won’t burn out completely, before the project is finished. I wonder if the rumors of discontent on set are fueled by increasingly short tempers – it wouldn’t be surprising. We love you, D&D, thank you for all your hard work. *profound bow*
The Weeds of Winter
And if we’re being honest, the biggest spoiler they’re probably pissed about is Jon Snow, and the amount they doubled down on it…I mean come on, it’s really hard to be sympathetic.
I, for one, find it quite refreshing he did not take the all-too-pervasive view most GoT fans aren’t capable of comprehending anything outside the fantasy genre (like that one jerk who wrote the review of Dr. Faustus and quipped it was probably beyond what most GoT fan’s comprehension). If the majority of GoT fans I’ve run across, both in real life and the e-world, are any indication, they are far more educated and well-read than they are given credit for being.
Well said, WinterPhil!
Uh, yeah, I probably would. Spoilers don’t take away any of the enjoyment for me, in any medium. I wish there were spoilers in sports; would save me a lot of grief.
Perhaps you’re right. It’s rather impossible the judge the exact impact of the leaks, so I’ll leave it.
But otherwise, if you can’t see why an artist would hate that their work is being spoiled and leaked to such a degree, I can’t help you. They want it to be watched how it is intended to watched, as I said. I don’t think that’s somehow unreasonable, or them crying a river. And the point about them being hypocrites is beyond stupid.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I wasn’t patronizing you Nymeria with that quote. I was quoting the part I was discussing about, since you said that is not clear what my original quote is referring to, and I figured maybe it wasn’t. I also didn’t try to change anyone’s opinion at all, I was explaining why I said it. I honestly don’t particularly care if we agree or disagree. I wasn’t the one to engage the conversation in the first place, I just realized I might not have been explicit enough, that’s all, regardless if you see it the same way I do.
Next time if you don’t agree or don’t understand, maybe you should ignore my comment and I won’t have to explain anything.
This is off topic!
I don’t like that. I know D&D are probably beyond exhausted and would like to end it ASAP, but I hope HBO fights them on it.
Where did you go to HS? You telling me that the students there weren’t assigned this book? Most people I know have read it or seen the movie and know about the ending. Its very presumptive of you to assume that those here wouldn’t have read it. The people here are some of the most well read folk I’ve met, online and in real life. Geesh. Find another way to make your point.
Re Hitchcock Psycho I remember reading the lengths he went through to make sure that the twist was kept secret before the premier and this went on for months. That couldn’t be done now. That being said I remember watching it when I was in HS, and even tho I knew it, I was so shocked by that scene, its seared into my brain. Didn’t take a shower for a few days after that….
Actually, it makes sense. The Wall will fall after S6. I never thought that they could have WW as a treat for 20 episodes.
D&D don’t care for the hardcore fans, they care more about the more casual viewers, as there are much more of them.
I personally believe they have the same disrespect for the hardcore fans as Ian “tits and dragons” McShane. That explains some of the decisions they made and the avoidable inconsistencies in the show
I don’t want the show to end, but would be refreshing to see a show end on a creative note and of their own volition.
John was mostly joking and not admonishing fans for being curious. If I’d been interviewing, I would have turned the tables on him: “So, John, what you’re saying is that you’ve never read any parts of the scripts other than your own bits because you wouldn’t choose to be spoiled at all unless you absolutely had to be? So you don’t know Jon’s fate, then, right? So Jon could still be in Season 6, for all you know? I mean, surely you’re taking your own advice and not spoiling yourself before these massively brilliant and beautiful episodes air, right?”
Seems good to me.
HBO should think about getting rights to a spinoff set in the ASOIAF world.
Yes. I always thought that 73-75 episodes is enough. 20 hours of zombie invasion will be too much.
It wasn’t some kind of insult to GoT fans. Just because someone has gone and read the classics, it doesn’t mean they’re smart. My point was he picked something very obscure and went and spoiled it. I really doubt that most people have read or seen Anna Karrenina.
The best way to discourage people from looking for spoilers is to encourage fake spoilers. For instance, when you have a big outdoor set that you have no hope of securing from amateur photographers, bring some recognizable actors or other figures who are not actually in the scene filming there to hang out in costume for a while. White Walkers on the Braavos set, Shae’s actress in Mereen, and you-know-who you-know-where. Once people realize that half the spoilers were fake they’ll stop paying attention to spoilers.
Also…. is the fight outside the Tower of Joy really a spoiler at this point? It was in a book published 20 years ago, and has been referenced in some detail multiple times on the show (Joffrey reading Arthur Dayne’s entry in the White Book, Jojen Reed talking about his father’s relationship with Ned, etc).
During the run of Game of Thrones, I’ve realized I don’t mind spoilers. I could read an entire seasons’ scripts and still be on the edge of my seat the night they air. Most of the big moments were spoiled for me before I even started watching (honestly, hearing the main character of the first season died before the season was over was a HUGE selling point to get me to watch).
But I get hiding spoilers to the mass audience. Hide as much as you can, but don’t get mad at those who dig. As stated, those people tend to be massive fans. It’s about watching the journey, not just the big moments that can be spoiled. I hope they focus more on the journey than hiding shock value moments.
Calm down. Just because a person reads doesn’t mean they’re smart or that they have great reading comprehension. Case and point, you. When you assumed in your other post that I was referring to readers of this site when I talked about people not reading Tolstoy, you were incorrect. I was referring to the general population and GoT fandom as a whole. If you think most people read Tolstoy, then you’re clueless.
John the normal guy,
Well written. I totally agree.
It is not remotely disingenuous, nor is it remotely elitist. For one thing, B&W do not have much say in the promotions: that is handled by the promotions department at HBO. Moreover, think of what the promotions are: an attempt to get people to buy the product. What are B&W criticizing? Those people who essentially are giving out part of their product for free.
No, but smart people tend to go out of their way to read the classics. Again, Anna Karenina is a pretty widely read book, just as War and Peace is. I suspect that the majority of college-educated adults could at least tell you the basics of what happens in Anna Karenina. (But probably not too much more than the basic: it is a long and complex novel with multiple protagonists other than Anna herself.)
And as for calling it “obscure,” well, the sun is obscure if you live under rocks all of the time, too.
Shorter succeeding seasons?
I don’t totally disagree with you. But I think it’s interesting that D&D are so much more vehement on spoilers than on piracy. And that to me is just a direct result of the Jon Snow debacle.
OT – That clip of sophie is awesome and Emilia’s interview with ellen was great. Was refreshing to not discuss season 6, but rather Ellen spent most of the time talking about how hugggeeee the show is, asking Emilia how she feels about that and how her family/parents feel about that. They also discussed Emilias “sexiest woman alive” for Esquire magazine. And then they played heads up – you can see that in the youtube video. Too bad the full interview isn’t on ellen tube.
The same is true for the books. The Martins, Rowlings, etc., interact more with hardcore fans than with casual fans because only the hardcores go out of their way to interact with them, but their books succeed/fail based on what the 99% like. Moreover, the hardcores often completely miss the forest for the trees: Tolkien had several rather scathing comments about his hardcores who got hung up on pointless minutia that had no bearing on the stories he was trying to tell.
Piracy is something over which they have very little control: that is, after all, a much bigger issue than any particular show or film or musical recording.
Sure some smart people do. But also a lot of people read those books because it makes them feel smart.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree because I think we’re straying from my original point that Weiss’s comment was a very niche spoiler.
Yes, but you would think it has a more direct impact on their show’s “artistry” and numbers. Spoilers don’t have any discernible effect on numbers. And they seem way more pissed about spoilers this year and because OF COURSE – Jon Snow + going off the books. But they have to be foolish not to understand the irony of the latter, and they doubled down on the JS stuff themselves.
Martin has had 8 years to complete this series since he sold them the rights to do it. The fact that it is not done is 100% down to his laziness, and B&W cannot be held accountable for that. Remember, GRRM assured them that the books series would be done by now.
At any rate, the vast majority of the TV audience is not reading the books, nor are they ever going to do so. GRRM’s writing turns off a lot of people (the word to content ratio has become really high), and given that the demographics watching Thrones are people who have read a ton as it is, they aren’t getting spoiled this year anymore than they were the last five years.
Actually, the piracy probably does not have a huge effect on viewing numbers. The one caveat on the fact that the biggest demographics for watching Thrones are early-middle aged professionals is that subscribership to HBO is heavily skewed towards that demographic. HBO is not cheap, after all.
The people watching pirated versions of this show or any other tend to be much younger, and they also tend to be in a situation where they either watch the pirated versions of movies or shows on subscription channels, or they do not watch them at all. So, HBO probably is not losing subscribers to piracy: people who cannot afford HBO (or their local equivalents) are resorting to piracy.
All of that stated, Thrones is getting great numbers for HBO, and HBO’s executives have rewarded the show handsomely. They would not be rewarding it all that much more if the pirates started subscribing. So, the people really getting affected are the shareholders: and crying for them is rather like crying for the Lannisters, wouldn’t you say?
As for the first part, fair enough. I did read it as you being patronizing, but it is easy enough to misread things. As for the rest of your post, I did not state you were trying to change an opinion, merely that I stood by my observation, nor did I say anything there was anything good or bad about disagreeing, simply that you had your view and I had mine. You were under no obligation to explain anything, it was your choice, so I’m not sure what the issue is.
In the future, you don’t feel like explaining something, maybe you should just ignore my comment, and then you won’t have to explain anything.
Short answer, no., just another ah fan with an opinion.
But I do wanna know what those two Blue Wizards were up to in the Far East!
“Code names were used.”
CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED. GET HYPE.
I like this site and all the updates on casting, filming locations and speculations. I made the mistake of clicking on an article that had images of filming that I felt spoiled thing for me in a big way not a ” I wonder what that set will be used for” or “I wonder what character that person will play”. Y’all know what images I’m speaking of and I totally get D&D frustration with that
Here’s an equally big spoiler: Barrack Obama won the election in 2012. Sorry, latrine, but if you tell a joke involving Anna Karenina and trains and the audience does not laugh, then it’s because the irony wasn’t palpable enough, not because they didn’t know what the train meant.
As for people reading Anna Karenina to “look smart,” that’s just silly. If nothing else, then I cannot see Tolstoy holding the attention of dolts. But regardless: Jane and Joe HBO-Viewer are smart, well-educated and well-read. You are making the mistake of equating the GoT fandom with the viewership: and the fandom is very different from the viewership. (Trust me, with most of the viewership, if any fantasy or SciFi is read, then it’s Nebula quality, not Hugo quality: well, not unless you are making an ironic comparison to Victor Hugo, anyway…..)
Can you even blame people for wanting spoilers. Some people have been waiting since the first book to find stuff out. Add that in with the fact that there’s been many cliffhanger deaths and tons of promotions, it only instigates this. By blaming just the fans is not the right thing because its not the only factor. Yes there are those that actively spread spoilers, and I agree that’s wrong but people just have to learn to avoid going to those forums, comments etc. Because this show is one of the most popular in history with an ever expanding fanbase so its inevitable for that stuff to happen. Last thing I want to add is that imagine you became a huge fan for a series or whatever then hearing you can wait 20+ years to find out the ending for it or get the spoilers for everything in the next 6. No matter how you put it 20+ years is a longggg time to wait compared to 6. and that’s not even a matter a patience anymore just perseverance. But that’s just my opinion…
Are you copying me?! Lol
Yeah, I’m sure it’s “laziness”. I would link you to a page-per-day comparison to other writers, but it’s from wic and i dont want to link there on this site. GRRM can be called many things, but lazy? you’re ridiculous.
“Sorry, latrine, but if you tell a joke involving Anna Karenina and trains and the audience does not laugh, then it’s because the irony wasn’t palpable enough, not because they didn’t know what the train meant.”
Go to a comedy club and try it then. See the reaction you get.
A Dream of Bling
When I was running Game of Thrones Fansite, I got lots of spoilers in the form of BTS pics so I knew a bit about the final scene of 5×09 with Drogon flying off. I did post the photos with the warning that there were spoilers but personally I was a little disappointed that I got spoiled about that. I only posted the photos because there were so many low quality shots out there anyway. However, I also posted the first photos of Mrycella and the Sand Snakes which were then shared here. I loved seeing them and all of the Dornish team before the season rolled out. There was nothing spoiled by those photos except the way they looked. Also, this year there were photos of Maisie swimming in a lake/river but I have no idea how that fits into the scenes or the story.
I don’t see how the Jon Snow thing has been a debacle. A lot of fans are still in the dark, and they knew this was coming. Though they probably didn’t expect people sending drones over the set, or whatever it was.
Right so why are they so pissed about it? The people who are convinced he’s alive are those who have read the books or thought about the series’ for years. And also casual fans think he’s alive! Those people aren’t on websites so what do D&D care, and the obsessive fans still really need to know how he comes back!
They’re the ones doubling down on the SHUT UP NO HE IS DEAD angle.
I mostly agree with the two. I wouldn’t be quite as harsh, but I have experience that even smallish info about filming, casting etc. can absolutely spoil a whole season (I really mean small pieces of information, not huge twists like Oberyn’s ‘headsplosion’).
Even while being very careful as to which news I read on this site and which I don’t, I can end up building expectations that will cause me great disappointment down the line (that’s possibly one of the reasons I so much hate S5 Dorne adventures and why I didn’t nearly enjoy ‘Watchers on the Wall’ and ‘Dance of Dragons’ as much as I should have).
I’m going to guess that was a rhetorical question, but if it wasn’t, please don’t take it upon yourself to explain it, at least not if you are then going to turn around and complain about choosing to explain it.
This x100!! The books I really love, I have read 5-10 times each. Same thing with my favorite films. Funny enough, I loved experiencing them again even though I knew how they would end. “Spoilers” never spoil a story for me, *if* it’s a really good story.
I like a little tidbit of information here and there. It is fun to try and fit the puzzle pieces together and to speculate with everyone else on this site.
I don’t think I want an entire script handed to me (although I’d probably read it, if is was), but a picture here and there, a little intel here and there, just keeps the show in the forefront even during the verrryyyy-loooonngggg empty space between seasons.
Do agree that the guy crawling around for miles with the camera was a bit overboard.
What? Most people i know have read or at least heard of AK. I read it as a teen not because I thought it was cool or because I belong to a special class of society, but simply because it was laying around with other classics. As I suspect many households contain. I don’t know.
Love this site and all that the Mods do to keep us super fans informed!!!! Keep up the good work!!!!! And thank you 🙂
I thought we were an autonomous collective?
Not surprised they feel this way naturally, controlling the flow of information is super important in the digital age
That said I’m not surprised that a website based on spreading spoilers and any new info wouldn’t be on the same page!
Naturally there is a middle ground, people like tantalising glimpses to help the discussion and theory build, which is where the notion of “Conrolled leaks” come from, an example is perhaps the Talk Show promos but if someone comes out and spoils entire sequences then it wrecks the surprise, it undermines the impact and fallout it has when it airs which can impact on the Professional TV showrunner, director, actor etc career. Eg a pleasant surprise like Hardhome arguably helped Sapochniks career and it sounds like he was given more resources as a result to Direct a larger battle
GoT has been odd, there has been book readers spoiling show watchers for years, at the same time this leads to a new phenomenon of people filming Red Wedding reactions and posting on YT which is like a new cultural phenomenon
D&D wanna make crack then get mad when people want a fix.
I think that there may be a generational bias here, gentlemen. If you’ve been anywhere near an American public high school in the last 20 years, you’d know that Russian literature is no longer on the reading lists. Hell, Shakespeare is barely on the reading lists! I graduated from the #2 HS in Illinois in 1981 (yeah, that’s old) and I only read Crime and Punishment because I was taking AP English. The rest of the students were not subjected to that (no, I do not like Russian novels in general, but that’s my opinion). My children (now finishing their undergrads) read the same novels in their top 20 public high school that they read in their private middle school (think: Huckleberry Finn in both 5th grade and 11th grade)! The American public education system sucks these days, my friends, so my money is on Toity-boy being much younger than Wims and Ash, hence his scoffing at Anna Karenina as an example. I have to agree with him: American viewers under 45 or so did not read Russian novels in high school, and I’d bet that very few even read them in college, with the way colleges are so major-focused these days. Sad but true, I’m afraid. /rant
I see where D&D are coming from–this is their work product that’s being basically stolen from them (shame on you, leaked-ep-watchers)–but, as former geeks themselves (they played D&D, right?) they must understand the obsessiveness of SF/F fandoms. I feel for you, WinterPhil, and all the folks here because it seems that this fine establishment is being painted with the same brush as sites like your former home. But I think that WotW is not guilty of being the first to spoil anything, and has practiced as honorable a form of entertainment journalism as can be found out here on the Wild Web. In addition, I think that the behind the scenes stuff keeps people watching more than would a totally silent off season. A poster up above said that they were going to stop watching this year so as not to spoil the books, but the tidbits here had enticed her/him back into the viewing fold. Cosca has the right of it: HBO should be doing this kind of responsible journalistic promotion for itself, and be taking better care of the creative product delivered into their hands. Not that I want WotW to be put out of “business”… I’d miss all of you too much. 🙂
Bloggers used to ban spoilers to get screeners.
THANK YOU. I’m not sure where these people grew up, but they must’ve gone to the most expensive private schools and lived in the biggest mansions surrounded by no one but Ivy league grads to think the majority of people would get Tolstoy references. Most of the country doesn’t even vote or know who is running for president. Most people watch cat videos and reality shows. And that’s not to say every person with above average intelligence automatically likes to read the classics either (or doesn’t watch cat videos and reality shows). Most don’t in fact I’d say. Usually people that like to read, are interested in literature, or who want to appear intellectual read Tolstoy for fun. Hence why I thought the reference was a bit pretentious.
Hodor? Hodor Hodor Hodor!
I don’t agree with them. I realize they’ve put a lot into this and it’s their baby, but this story doesn’t belong to them alone. Some of us have been waiting twenty years to find out what’s ultimately going to happen. That’s a really long time. I honestly feared I might die before knowing for sure if Jon Snow would come back. I’m not that old, only 35, but guess what, one of my best friends from all the way back in grade school actually did die three months ago, and she’ll never know. This isn’t like reading the last page of a book at all. There doesn’t exist a book that takes 20 years to read. Even A Dance with Dragons I finished in a single day. Of course I didn’t skip ahead, because there’s a huge difference between waiting a day and waiting decades. At a certain point, the constant cliffhangers overwhelm and become more important than the actual story.
Jon Snow is an important character, but this is a story with hundreds of characters. If he does or doesn’t, I still want to see what happens to the rest of the world as it undergoes simultaneous warfare on four fronts and a zombie apocalypse. It’s like they don’t realize how good a story there is here. You don’t need to leave us hanging on a single plot point to get us to come back. And this isn’t even really their fault. This is George Martin’s fault, for ending what may be the last book he ever finishes on 89 different cliffhangers. They had to leave this as a cliffhanger just to give him an honest chance at finishing Winds of Winter before season six came out. But here we are. Congratulations to them for making one of the most anticipated resolutions to a cliffhanger in television history. They can probably add an extra bedroom or two to whatever 10,000 square foot mansions they live in these days.
But you risk an awful lot banking the major appeal of your story on just the payoff. You might just become the X-Files, which is probably still my all-time favorite show if you only count the first six seasons, but I’ve waited since I was 12 to find out how the damn alien colonization was going to go down and it still hasn’t. So screw yourself, Chris Carter. You wasted two-thirds of my life. You even finally gave an answer and then it turned out you were just lying.
Why not? The LONG Night would doesn’t make sense for one season.
I do not blame D and D… I personally love spoilers but everybody has a right to defend what they consider their project (job,house,family,opinion…you name it)
This! I think it’s important to keep such leaks (I hated them!) and set reports/hints/sleuthing completely apart. The craziness of the fan community helped promote the show greatly when it was starting.
Actually, if there are really just 13 episodes left after season 6, it makes me think that the Wall is coming down this season, in 6.10, probably right about the time Danny and Tyrion are getting into the ships sailing for Westeros…
I personally love spoilers. I seek them out and having certain things spoiled for me doesn’t diminish my enjoyment at all. Every reader or watcher is different. Some like to be shocked, others not so much. I personally don’t put too much value on shock. Shock to me is such a fleeting emotion. I enjoy speculating and going over details and plot points more.
However, if a person knows something that might spoil it for everybody, I think the decent thing to do is warn people. That way people will have a choice.
As for D&D’s statements…let’s just say that spoilers have always been a part of any fandom. And most of the time, they are contained within the fandom and doesn’t really get out to casual viewers. They need to stop whining and shaming fans who love spoilers.
Meh, can’t blame them I guess. Personally I love the spoiler hunt, obviously, but it is their job to hide the production from us, which must be exhausting. It must have been really painful when the photo of Jon leaked, in particular, so I understand why they think that whoever leaked that and the Tower of Joy were assholes. It basically fucked up the surprise. Otherwise, they might have convinced even us Jon wouldn’t be resurrected.
I like spoilers because it keeps me interested, hyped and even if I can vizualized it, still watching on the screen is a different matter., but I do understand them. They’re working really hard to do great show and then spoilers come even with restricted measures they take. It’s annoying when your product is revealed before you unveiled it.
I get it! Imagine your working on a multimillion dollar project people snuck rough copies of it and shared it before you were ready for it! Or someone secretly took pics of your baby and shared it before you had a chance to…if I was interested if look…but still I get it! Anyone hiking miles just to hide in bushes and take pics is creepy to me! What will they do when there’s no show to peek at?
Frankly I’d be worried if Dan and Dave didn’t have this attitude towards spoilers. If they were casual about spoilers, I would reckon they’d be casual about making this series. For me, their passion is all-consuming, and so a little rage about spoilers is just collateral.
As for WotW, I don’t think any of what they say undermines either the good work done at this site, or the legions of fans who devour the site’s content and occasional spoilers on offer. Keep up the fine work – it’s not for them, it’s for us.
Am I to believe the Alien’s first appearance in Alien would have been better had I known about it happening to begin with? They didn’t even tell the rest of the cast it was happening when they shot the scene…and look at their faces and reactions!
Am I to believe that as a 9 year old in 1980, Vader’s talk with Luke would have been better had I known what he would say? Heck, every parent I know watches their childrens faces for the same reaction when they first show them ESB. Much as I imagine Thrones fans do to Unsullied they show the show to. I know I never told my wife anything when she binge-watched 5 seasons after I had encouraged her to. Her reactions were priceless.
Would “The Crying Game” have been better spoiled. Or “The Usual Suspects”?
I never knew about any of what unfolded on Thrones so far.
AND IT WAS MARVELOUS.
It only serves to increase the dread and increases my level of alertness in hope that I catch enough of the foreshadowing in casual dialogue.
Much self-preservation comes down to ensuring one stays off of social media until one has watched the latest episode and not seeking out knowledge. I’m sure it’s easier to be Unsullied now, as things are little more even between book and show, though not entirely I understand.
I promise you that the end of “Mother’s Mercy” was a monumental shock to me and kudos to every person in the world who knew but somehow conspired to never tell me.
Theorise by all means, I like that kind of stuff, but I simply don’t understand the spoiling/spoilers thing. It’s not for me.
However, each to their own and all. The world’s much better that way.
I agree. If I were to ask my freshmen how many had read Anna Karenina, I would be a little surprised if even one of my students had. Sadly, the emphasis in K-12 now is on non-fiction. Some stupid bureaucrats assume that if our children are reading fiction, they aren’t learning. Fucking hell! If you think children cannot learn through imagination, then clearly you haven’t been paying attention. (Of course, Wimsey will say that children shouldn’t be imagining when reading fiction, either, but he’s like the only one on that train.)
The nasty bits,
Love the name, do you watch Vinyl?
Well, I’ve consumed set reports and casting news the same way you seem to have done it. Yet, I disagree with you. It is one thing to read, publish, and take pictures of film sets, cast arriving at airports etc. and on the other hand side reveal one of the most important twists of this season in one picture taken by a way too ambitious fan who takes pictures of you-know-who on set of a certain battle. I wish I had not heard that and hope other major spoilers like this one remain hidden and safe in the future.
Knowing about a ToJ flashback is great news, knowing about, say, Littlefinger would be killed by Ramsay Bolton would ruin the show. I think that is what D&D mean when calling this one fan-photographer an asshole. They are afraid that the 95% get to know of this picture, and this would spoil it for EVERYone.
On the subject of a-holes maybe these guys should get out of theres? The show is massive now and they are now of course well known but I don’t think even they could of seen how big it would get. It’s testament to the fans and sites like this that keep they hype going and without it maybe it wouldn’t of grown to where it is?
I find it a bit curious, for years we book readers have tried pretty hard (not always successfully) not to spoil the Unsullied, with the full backing of this site and its predecessor and sanctions against anyone who flouted that.
Now, all of a sudden spoilers are cool? I mean would readers be happy if someone somehow accessed GRRMs manuscript and posted 200 pages of unseen work online for anyone to see? Would they object if GRRM complained? OK that is an example that we could call theft of intellectual property and more extreme but even so.
There is a fine line between publicising info that is in the public domain and theorising on it and using illicitly obtained material without the intellectual property owners consent. This is one of those Internet Era issues where the law hasn’t really caught up.
Thanks for the idea!
PS: I find speculations more entertaining and interesting than spoilers. Especially comparing how close or far away you were from the actual situation.
From their point of view, I get it because it involves a lot of extra hassle when you’re trying to get something made. They just need to take it as a compliment, though; people are itching for the show to come back on.
I can’t say I’ve ever been ‘spoiled’ really by finding out something because it’s never ruined my enjoyment, and because spoilers generally lack detail.
I appreciate that this site knows more than it reports and draws a line.
Knowing the end of a plot line doesn’t ruin the journey. A crappy journey ruins the journey.
I knew about Dead Ned, the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding, The Crushed Viper, Abandoned to die Hound, Blind Araya, Stabbed Jon Snow, and many, many other things. Because the books.
I absolutely enjoyed the hell out of the journey on HBO anyway.
WotW is amazing. I check this site every day.
“I just want to point out that guy’s an a–hole,” Benioff says of one of the paparazzi infiltrators. “You’re not cool for doing that, you’re an a–hole.”
Tone, please! Is his expression so limited? No matter what he thinks he did, nobody deserves to be called names. It just shows that they probably deserved what he did anyway…! [/discussion]
I did laugh when they asked if you would read a website that had the last pages of great books. Yes, actually….yes I would.
And I think that WinterPhil has an amazing point. Not all of us are bothered by spoilers. I, frankly, have always been a spoiler fan, and it is how I enjoy the worlds I love. We are not out to rain on anyone’s parade, frankly, nor are we trying to make the lives of the authors or creators hard. We love the series and this is how we enjoy it. For myself, personally, it’s a bit of a game of knowing, “okay, so this is where you took it, how did you get there?” But, again, this is a personal experience, not one I expect everyone to enjoy.
That all being said, I won’t deny there are the trolls out there who do enjoy getting that information to throw it out to the masses and see the effect they get when they spoil the world. Those folks should, IMHO, be shamed. They are the ones who go out to stir up the world, and frankly, they are jerks who should be castigated. Spoiling for the sake of spoiling is not cool unless someone wants it.
Still, I do see D&D’s point. They work very hard on a product where part of it is that they are building up expectations and pulling out surprises. And as a person who has done a fair share of her own creative (and not particularly good) writing, nothing sucks more than to work so hard on a project like that and then have someone ruin it. And that has to be frustrating. And it’s hard not to be angry at the whole lot of those who would spoil it. And, really, as much as I love being spoiled, even I have to wonder a bit about folks hiding with telescopic lenses at times. I get it. You want to put out this product and make it surprise worthy and enjoyable, and it’s not fun when someone ruins that after all your efforts. Being the ardent Harry Potter fan, I can’t help but think of the Book 7 fiasco when it was released on the internet a whole week before by some kid with a digital camera. The penultimate moment of the entire series, ruined by someone who thought it would be cool. That would make me want to tear my hair out. And while I love a good spoiler, I’d not want the creator or the fans to be disappointed because people were capitalizing or showing off.
Spoilers are a complicated issue. There are many who enjoy them, many who don’t, and for a creator, it usually the last thing you want. I don’t think it was fair to lump all websites or spoiler fans into one pot of bad, but at the same time I do get their point. This season in particular I think is hard for them because we don’t have books to run to, nothing to be spoiled with. And people are looking for ANYTHING to get even a hint of what is going on. And that has to be difficult.
In any cause, I do like the spoilers here, WinterPhil, and I am glad you put them behind a safe cut so those who don’t wish to be spoiled can avoid it, and that you clarify the level of spoilerage. I think that’s showing a responsibility to both kinds of fans, and everyone can make what they will of it.
Sue the Fury,
Oh wow, really?! I can’t believe people do that. So sad.
I have never longed for a “like” button more.
I love your content!
What many here don’t understand is that most people are protective over their own work. They put so much effort into the show, so why would they not wish for people to enjoy it as it was intended to. Spoiling is called spoiling for a reason. It spoils the fun, spoils the suspense, which are a huge part of the entertainment these shows provide. They’re right to call out people, who intentionally try to spoil the fun for everyone else.
If they are so concerned with spoilers why air season 6 at all. Everything you do is a spoiler for the books. Try not to be such hypocrites. As for the Web site with book endings, please post the link I need that. Oh wait, it’s called cliff notes, been around for decades.
What are you talking about? I like spoilers. It does not take away from the enjoyment of watching the show for me. If you don’t want to be spoiled stop hanging around sites like this one. It is YOUR responsibility to not get spoiled. This is the problem these days. It is nobody else’s fault but your own if you read an article or looked at a picture which might spoil something for you. Or did someone hold a gun to your head?
Take responsibility for your own action and stop crying about spoilers like a five year old. You know what you were doing coming here or any other fandom.
Well my hubby watched the spoiler about the Red wedding and told me about it.Thought I divorce him then and there and it took me another month to actually finish watching the series.Never even knew I would hate that much the knowing of what comes.So i hate spoilers,but understand people who need them.There is only one spoiler I would love to know aboutb- what about Jon Snow? I finished the books and am no smarter.If only mr.Martin would pull his finger out and started writing!!
Now that was not nice of him.
My hubby is still in the dark about the new season. I have not told him a thing.
In 1995, when The Usual Suspects was released, on my bus run into town, there was a giant poster with the infamous line up on it, with the tag line ‘Who Is Keyser Soze?’
Naturally enough, within days, a red graffiti circle appeared around a certain character, with the words ‘its him’ next to it.
Still love the film though.
How can you disagree with Dave and Dan for being upset with people who go out of their way to spoil their work? They try as hard as they can to create a fresh and surprising story for their fans and people spy on them and plaster it on the Internet. I have read all the books and thus don’t mind show spoilers, so I read some and choose not to read others. I could never imagine faulting D&D for defending the privacy of THEIR set.
Amen, Sister! I’m all about the imagination!
It depends on the spoiler. Some actually ruin the moment, others make you more excited to see it for yourself.
The thing is whilst this site I admit clearly states spoilers ahead and does as much as is reasonable practical to ensure people who dont want to know are kept free of information as possible. However when the information gets out on the internetits hard for other less ethical sites from publishing in it so I definitely support any extra security.
To give an example of another show TWD has had numerous posts about how one character will be revealed and will kill another (and to be fair the show runners in this case also released this information to a degree) however without wanting to I saw on a number of unrelated sites the name of the revealed character and suggestions as to who they will kill . Some of these sources were not websites (which I could avoid) but adverts on websites where I would not expect to find this type of information. I did not want to know this information and whilst that may be acceptable to some I definitely support any efforts by the show to keep things a secret.
I had read the GOT books before the show was made and I have yet to give away a plot point before it was revealed on TV to any friends or family who havent watched the show. The whole reason GOT is so successful is for the WTF moments and now we are all in uncharted territory I want to enjoy the remains of the show (regardless of how future novels differ) and the subsequent WTF scenes before the series reaches its end point.
I have no problems with this site in particular as any potential spoilers are usually clearly marked well in advance but to the myriad of people who think by giving out the information they are in some way superior/learned/more informed than those who dont want to know. I find them to be tiresome individuals who need to do things of that nature to make their own lives relevant in some way.
Spy reports are one thing on that I agree with WinterPhil – it’s the game, it’s all in the game.
But the person who uploaded their advanced screener copies of the first four episodes of Season 5? Shame. That was a sacred trust they violated. That wasn’t “spoilers” or “spy reports” but outright “theft”.
I don’t mind spoilers if they are properly labeled as such (like it happens in here). You decide if you want or not to be spoiled. The last few days I’ve decided to stay away from all new scenes because I want a fresher look of the whole season. But I still manage to
read and discuss other content.
Whay I can’t stand are people who spoil others out the blue, without any warning, just for the fun of ruining everbody else’s viewing experience.
This notion – that a show can be ‘spoiled’…like a melon… I don’t believe it. Nevertheless, I try to follow the rules. Those folks who whine about being spoiled, need to take a long nap, then they’ll feel better about things.
As a reader …I start most books on the last page, then jump to the front; so, those writers needn’t worry. Physicists say that time doesn’t really exist. Perhaps the idea that one event follows the next is a trick of the mind.
Has the site crashed? Testing?
Anyhoo… since I’m here… the idea that the people looking at GoT news and spoilers are WORSE than the people that actively try break the confidentially of the show is harsh.
Considering I’ve been following GoT since BEFORE David and Dan read the books… I’m with Winterphil… boo….
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