Just when we think Game of Thrones filming is slowing down, it gets super active again!
Los Siete Reinos is reporting that their sources have confirmed for them there are, as we suspected on Friday, multiple scenes/storylines being filmed in a close area in Northern Ireland. There are more spoiler details about the scenes being filmed, as well!
According to L7R, it breaks down as:
- Scenes in the Three-Eyed Raven’s cave
- a White Walkers set
- Castle Black scenes
Our own sources have told us that there are scenes being filmed currently in Banbridge involving the Unsullied. Since we saw Emilia Clarke getting back to work a couple days ago, this makes sense. The studios must be absolutely packed.
There are more spoilers ahead about the Castle Black & Night’s Watch scenes!
If you’re wondering (and I’m sure many of you are), Kit Harington was not there, per the report. However, L7R has learned that, as we’d guess after last season’s finale and various season 6 spoilers, Jon Snow is no longer the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. The scenes being filmed involved other members of the Watch, including the new Lord Commander. L7R says that the new Lord Commander is a character that’s been known to us for several seasons.
There’s a very small number of current Night’s Watch characters who would fit that bill. Alliser Thorne (played by Owen Teale) seems like the most likely the new Lord Commander. He has been with the show since season 1, and led the mutiny against Jon Snow. The remaining members might choose him to succeed Jon, since Thorne’s seen as a leader.
However, it’s also possible that a long-running character is newly sent to the Wall in season 6 and then becomes the Lord Commander. That would make the new Lord Commander much harder to predict.
Speculate away, readers! Who do you think the new Lord Commander is?
My first Hodor!
Edit: Now that that’s out of the way, it seems very likely that the new Lord Commander is going to be Thorne. I can’t imagine it being someone recently sent to the wall – there isn’t really anyone that comes to mind.
Also….In 2 days time, we’re a month closer to April. Woooo!
The elections wouldn’t be that quick, it would probably be after Jon’s “rebirth”.
My money’s on Edd, he got screentime at Hardhome for good reason, he’ll be the next LC.
More White Walkers, and finally something on The Three Eyed Raven and Bran! Do you think we will see way more White Walkers this season?
While I’m sure the new LC is Thorne, because I have no doubt that he would push for the position after removing the traitor Jon Snow from his position, I will toss out an entirely unlikely and not really possible, but still fun to think about, option: Jaime Lannister. Just for the fun of it.
Several seasons? Little confusion there. But i hope its not thorne. I hope that guy gets what he deserves. But maybe he will. Maybe he’s left in charge then along come the white walkers to bring the wall down on him.
Well if the new Lord Commander has been with the show since season 1, it can’t be Edd since he first appeared in S2. My guess is Thorne, with Yarwyck being a dark horse candidate.
Edit: wait, I read that wrong. Hmm, okay, I still say Thorne with Edd having a slight chance.
I think it will be Thorne. It makes sense that the faction that opposed/killed Jon Snow will go on to the claim the LC post. And will then fail miserably at dealing with the Wildlings and White Wakers.
Or maybe Olly will continue his improbable rise in the NW and show-canon and become the the new youngest-ever Lord Commander??? ?
I reckon it could be Edd. Jon will deliver or order Thorne dead for his treachary and before moving out, will appoint Edd LC. And as Bearded Onion said, he had screen time at Hardhome. He knows the white walker threat and is one of Jon’s closest allies remaining at the wall.
I think Thorne is a pretty safe bet for the new LC. I can almost see him leading the remainder of the NW to their doom.
I’m most intrigued, though, by the WW set. I kind of hope it’s the area we saw where the NK transformed Craster’s son. I’d love any new information we could get about them!
ps – Alliser Thorne is a fucking asshole!!!
So obviously Thorne
Regarding Jon, I think the only big question I have is how quickly the show revives him. I know Sue can’t really tell us, but I do wonder if they’ve learned this yet.
Lord Commander Davos Seaworth!!!
I’m going with Edd . Even in he books ,my bet is that Jon would have left Edd in charge in the event that he went either to Hardhome or to ambush Ramsay.. and we have Edd’s “nightmare” that he was LC … perhaps as a bit of foreshadowing.
So Jon can officially (possibly) become King now. And my money is on Thorne as well, but I’m a little hesitant to fully believe that fully because it seems too obvious.
I know it’s obviously Thorne, but I’m still hoping it will be Stannis. Having Jon’s and Stannis’ roles reversed in Season 6 would be fun.
Lord Commander Sansa Stark!
Thorne??? Noooo, please!!
Amazing info, thanks!!! 🙂
Most likely Thorne.
Lord Commander Hodor?
Seriously, though, the “several seasons” bit is interesting. We’ve known Thorne since the beginning, Season 1, so it would be odd to describe him as someone we’ve known for “several seasons”.
Let’s think…someone who joined us several seasons ago but hasn’t been in the show since Season 1….Dolorous Edd joined in Season 2. Hmmm, I remember there was an interesting theory that Edd would finish up as Lord Commander……trying to remember what the evidence was.
”Edd, you have the Wall!”
Olly and Thorne will die it’s 10000000000000% or more.
”L7R says that the new Lord Commander is a character that’s been known to us for several seasons.”
SEVERAL…not from season 1…for fuck sake guys…
It’s Edd.
“Several” seasons means very precisely not every season, so I’m going with Edd (because of his HH experience) or Yarwyk (mostly because everyone else I know by name at CB is dead or gone off to Oldtown).
Moosse Bolton,
The only problem with that is Stannis is dead.
I love the Davos idea, although I still think it’s Thorne, even though it does seem a bit too obvious, as someone already pointed out. As for Edd, I’d certainly prefer him over Thorne, but I have a hard time imagining Edd being elected as LC given he was a Jon supporter.
Ramsay or Roose Bolton as Lord Commander.
Maybe those focusing on “several” are correct in that they’re referring to someone who has not been in the show since season 1, but I see it as possibly more like when Sue used the term “interacting…” a term which, while accurate, can also be open to interpretation. If it is Thorne and it was reported “someone who’s been in the show since season 1,” they may as well just go on and say “it’s Thorne.” This way, who it is is left open.
I agree that it’s probably going to be Ser Alliser. Ser Davos is an interesting possibility, if he joins the NW, having lost his king and his king’s family, as well as his own.
I think Jorah Mormont is headed to the NW this season too, but that’s just a gut feeling.
Plot-twist : the new LC is Reek.
Arkash,
My name is Reek…
It rhymes with Lord Commander. 😉
I think Thorne and the other mutineers will be dying in the immediate aftermath of FTW from Wildings, so there will not be any time for him to be the next LC. So I say the next LC will either be Edd or someone newly sent to the Wall. My money’s on Edd.
Haha, thanks for the laugh !
Back to more serious buisness, I see two main contenders :
Either Jon is back, has cleansed the NW and appointed his successor : I can totally see Davos being elected in that configuration.
Either it’s in the immediate aftermath of the mutinery and then, it’s most likely Thorne.
As much as I love Edd, I definitly cant see him ending up Lord Commander.
Davos, maybe?
I guess it will be Thorne. My second guess is Lord Davos.
Jon is Tormund’s new BFF.
The more I think about it, the more problems I see for Thorne becoming LC. I can’t imagine the commanders of Shadow Tower and Eastwatch standing idly by while the guy who killed the previous LC takes over his office. That would not be a good precedent, to put it mildly.
Thorne and company didn’t exactly do much to hide their responsibility in Jon’s death. They could have blamed it on the wildlings if they hadn’t put a “traitor” sign on his corpse. Plus Thorne, for all his faults, never seemed like a schemer or a liar, unless Janos Slynt rubbed off on him.
Olly. He had a lot of screentime last season. And he can kill WW just using his stares.
Kidding, I’m on Thorne too. Probably because besides him and Edd, I can’t remember any of the watchers…
I mean it’s true that, if you go by the dictionary definition, “several” is diffrent from “all”, but I wouldn’t put to much importance on that. In a lose sense “all” is replaceable with “several”, because people use it just to mean “more than one or two”. We’re talking about something someone said in a normal converation, not in a meeting with the Oxford Dictionary to define the nuances of the adjective “several”. 😉
It’s time to a Lady Commander. She’s a bird, after all. And she can use the Darth Sansa costume there. It’s perfect
After the 20 good men thing and nobody’s watching at Stannis camp, I can see that working too
Four possibilities I can see
Thorne
Edd
Davos
Stannis
Ramsey and the 20 good men could end up at the Wall all of sudden and take over the NW. They took like 2,000 people unawares so a 100 should not be that difficult.
If Jon Snow and the Wildling army is roaming south of the wall, there is no way that Alliser Thorne is Lord Commander, (or even alive for that matter).
It would make sense for Davos to take the black, after Stannis is dead. Plus the show needs something to do with Davos, since his book storyline is burried.
What about Marya? :/
Thorne will be LC, yes, but for one episode. Just until Jon is resurrected. I doubt Jon will keep Thorne alive, but someone will have to be LC while Jon is fighting the Boltons. I guess Jon will just appoint Edd on that postition without any elections.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Wow, that made me laugh pretty hard! I’m going to go with Thorne. Edd would be an awesome surprise but I can’t see him wanting to take up the job. Davos? Nah… he’s got other stuff to do like find Rickon. Wun Wun maybe? That would be amazing.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Until I see the body, Stannis is as dead as Syrio Forel or
As in, ‘not at all’.
The 999th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch might be the last LC, hopefully not an ignorant nationalist.
Aryamad,
They’ve pretty much nullified the book reason for Davos to be the man to find Rickon.
Thorne is the obvious but what about someone being punished for a crime and sent to Castle Black from King’s landing? Loras Tyrell perhaps?
OMG please not Jaime. Exit81 I would die. Although Nikolaj would look great in black, gold is a better color 😉
I love Edd so I would be happy with that! I agree on the screentime argument! But I think he would only take it if he was fairly elected and/or if Jon didn’t want it, out of loyalty to Jon.
Moosse Bolton,
“The Noble Houses of Westeros: Seasons 1-5” says Stannis was killed by Brienne, so I’m afraid it’s settled.
TV Davos has a wife. He would think twice about setting her aside.
I guess the answer to this question depends on whether or not the mutineers are punished for killing Jon. If not, I imagine Thorne will be in charge. If so, I’m guessing it will be Edd, as he’s the only non-mutineer named NW member remaining.
I agree that if it’s early in the season and Jon’s on ice or whatever, that Thorne will be named LC.
Return of the Hound!!!
crimethink,
I’m sure it also says that Syrio Forel and
are dead as well. I’m sure it also states that Jon is
They can hide information if they want to.
Agree with you completely. I believe Thorne is going to screw himself and the nightswatch over bitterly.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
*highfive* Nymeria! He totally is an asshole if he’s accepting the LC position after killing Jon for supporting the Wildlings and coming to their aid!
I mean Alliser Thorne himself let the them through the Wall when they came from Hardhome! He’s just as much of a traitor as Jon if the Wildlings coming through is the reason he stabbed Jon! And if he didn’t stab Jon for that, then he’s an idiot because logic should tell him that Jon just decreased the WW army by saving as many of the Wildlings as possible.
Tl;dr Ser Alliser Thorne is:
Option A) a hypocrite and an asshole
Option B) plain stupid or playing stupid so he can be LC in Jon’s place
Probably A and therefore I hope Edd gets the LC position.
That being said The actor playing Thorne is amazing.
Loras could end up at the Wall post trial, but cannot imagine him being promoted so fast.
Whoever he is, the 999th LC won’t last long.
Always hoped that Jaime would become the 1000th LC (if the Wall is still standing).
I’m sure the first thing Jon will do upon being resurrected is execute Alliser (If not the entire contingent that participated), if the wildlings don’t do it first. I’m sure Alliser will be the self-fashioned 999th LC, but he will not be for long.
Benjen Stark returns to take command of the NW…
People are debating about the use of the word “several” and thus exclude Ser Alliser because he’s been there since Season 1. For some dumb reason though, everyone is forgetting that we didn’t see him in Seasons 2 and 3.
Lyanna_targaryen,
You guys… By saying “several seasons” L7R lend themselves ambiguity – it could be someone who came around in season 2, but it could also be someone who’s been around since season 1. All it really tells us is it’s someone who’s been around at LEAST three seasons, possibly since the beginning.
After Jon’s death I’m surprised there’s enough Nights Watch LEFT for there to be a LC OF! I would have guessed the Wildlings would have gone on rampage after learning of Jon’s murder.
Some of you guys have said it’s probably Edd, because Jon may have left him in charge. The LC is elected and I highly doubt they would elect Jon’s last friend. I’m inclined to think Thorne, Marsh, or Yarwyck.
How does “several” seasons exclude season 1?
Dragonmcmx,
Just says “known for several season” doesn’t say “been in every season”.
So there will be 999 LC …
Which means iam right about jorah becoming 1000 th LC after the war is done ..
There is enough foreshadowing of jorah joining the Nw
Two scenarios in which this can happen is one if dany dies in the war jorah and remaining unsullied take the black in the new world.
Or dany orders them to be part of the new brotherhood and jorah as LC with longclaw or another mighty valyrian sword
For 999 though the only options I see are..
Thorne
Davos
Eddd
THIS.
If this is pre-resurrection, it means Thorne. If it’s afterwards and the mutineers are punished, it’s probably Edd.
Luka Nieto,
Jon won’t punish anyone. Even if he wanted to, he won’t be in any position to do anything once he gets resurrected, so the first thing he will do is flee Castle Black ASAP and seek help from the Wildlings he brought south. If his resurrection truly is in episode 5 or 6, I’d expect him to go straight for rallying the Northern Houses and taking Winterfell next, so he can eventually unite the North against the White Walkers.
Jon rises from the pyre, that’s the entire reason GRRM invented “now his watch is ended.” How quickly would a new LC be elected? I’d guess before the burning. If not before, then Jon would be there, no longer NW or LC, to influence things, which could mean Edd. If it’s done beforehand, it’s just a question of how the NW as a whole reacts to all of this. Alliser fits the trajectory of the downfall of NW. I don’t think there’s a 1,000.
The most obvious choice is thorne, but Jon can come back early and execute him and others with the permission of every one in nights watch. Jon was never a good leader in the eyes of the nights watch men, but the majority respect him and follow his orders. Only a motin of coward killed him, so i think when he comes back the rest of the nights watch will be with him to execute the traitors and edd will be the new one lord comander. And they will have a last talk:
Edd: you died my friend. You died in the hands of traitors. I cried over your body with out any sign of life,i could not believe in my eyes when you rise again, and now im here talking to you. Death release you from the vows. And i always taught you would be more worth out there than here. Hahaha. Go do what you have to do.
Jon similles and give him a hug.
Bearded Onion,
That would be great, but it would make me fear for Dolorous Edd’s fate. Thorne seems like an obvious choice considering he was one of the contenders in the last election. However, he betrayed the Night’s Watch by leading the mutiny against LC Jon Snow. He behaved just as Karl Tanner did against Commander Mormont.
It would be nice to have Ghost snack on him and pave the way for Edd.
Part of me always imagined that Jaime would end up as a member of the NW when all is said and done. However, once the Wall comes tumbling down and the WW invade, would there still be a need for the NW?
Love the suggestion of Loras but…
…I agree that the timing may be off. We haven’t even seen Loras’ trial yet.
Also agree that the 999th LC will not last long. He will be the NW equivalent of William Henry Harrison.
Hype Man Baelish,
Stannis? This is not “Weekend at Bernies”.
Okay, now that I think about it, Davos is the perfect choice. He didn’t even occur to me, but I suppose with Mannis’ defeat joining the watch would save his life.
It’ll be Jaime or Lord Commander Wun Wun.
Speculation on one set: A “WW set” means not the Winterfell one, no? At least that’s how I took it. I believe the Wall is safe for this season. However, I think Bran, Bloodraven and the NG will probably have some kind of weirwood one-sided meeting. Or maybe Bran wargs something/Hodor who’s close to the WW camp/zombie army.
I doubt Jon would ever leave Thorne in charge of the wall after his mutiny. The Wildlings would never be able to to go south of the wall if Thorne were to become LC. It will either be Edd or maybe even Davos. He lost his primary purpose after Stannis died so I wouldn’t put it past him to join the Night’s Watch.
It makes sense for Thorne to “get his” as LC when the WW (or the Bolton’s) come. I agree there are some hints at Edd, but I’m not sure how this would fit into/add to the story.
Glad to hear there is some BloodRaven filming!
Guys, there was a new before what confirmed that Davos is going with Jon to Winterfell. So not him.
There will be no voting before Jon’s funeral. That would be Thorne’s only chance. But Jon will reborn at his funeral and i’m damn sure he will kill Alliser.
So the only candidate is Edd.
I would very much like to see that rat bastard Thorne be torn apart by Ice Spiders.
It’s lord davos. He can’t go back to the 7 kingdoms and he is the only one there of any importance that cannot be considered a traitor for killing snow.
Phil Necro,
Where did you see confirmation Davos was with Jon at Winterfell?
Even without that spoiler it was pretty obvious that Thorne will possibly be the new LC, or thats just what GRRM and D&D wanted to make us think.
He doesnt have this anti Jon role for no reason after all.
And even after all the “spoilers” and theories about Jon, i am still not fully expecting Jon to return, at least not in the show since that would be too sweet for us.
Ludovic,
I think it might be Loras Tyrell, as punishment
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I only read this page and WiC so it was here or there.
Come on guys, this is season 6 we’re talking about, we are near the end of the show and whoever will be Lord Commander after Jon will be the last one, since the White Walkers will be defeated (and the Wall probably destroyed).
I think it will be Thorne. Jon won’t stay at the Wall (Mel will probably take his body with her and leave the Wall before his resurrection, I mean, it would be stupid to bring him back in the middle of his murderers…), so there’s no reason for Edd to be Lord Commander.
Moka,
There will be the another half of the Night’s Watch who voted for him and love him, and the wildlings with Wun Wun and they’re alive because of Jon so they will defend him. And those fuckers never saw any resurrection. They will be froze like a statue and the power of the surprise is with Jon.
Wazzup now bro?
Most likely alliser Thorne, kept alive out of, I guess, forgiveness. Dark horse candidate is Theon. He’s a wanted criminal in the north, he’ll be killed if he goes home for his role in moat Cailin. Sansa can get him sent to the wall
Jon is dead, and the only witnesses of what happened are the murderers. Do you think they’ll admit they are traitors? No. They will lie, and probably say that a wildling killed Jon. I can already hear Thorne say “We warned Jon Snow about the wildlings, but he didn’t listen!”. So, you see, the “other half of the Night’s Watch who voted for him and love him” can’t do anything except cry, and accept Thorne as the new LC.
Moka,
Jon will reborn and say the truth. loooool
Valyrian Steel,
“Regarding Jon, I think the only big question I have is how quickly the show revives him. I know Sue can’t really tell us, but I do wonder if they’ve learned this yet.”
Your right to wonder about this. I would have a huge impact on what the night watch does. I still think though seeing Jon resurrected perhaps after being burnt would put Thorne in a different frame of mind. Jon is also about uniting folks and not about dividing them.
Its also worth noting if the wildlings follow Jon they will have to be armed which suggests the compliance of the nights watch or them being over run.
Ghost as Lord Commander of the Watch !!!!
Joke aside, I’d love to see Ghost tear down the mutiners, but even though we know there’s more Ghost action this year, I think that would be a way too difficult scene to shot.
But we dont know if she will know what she’s doing !
It could very well be that she just says a prayer at his pyre without knowing what would happen.
Moka,
I think they’ll be proud of what they have done. There is no Sam or Maester Aemon to sway the brothers and remember Jon only won by one vote. The new Lord Commander will not be voted on straight away. Thorne may take the position of acting Lord Commander but East Watch etc have to have to be notified and gather to caste their votes.
It is also worth remember the Wildlings aren’t armed at the moment. What they’ll do however is any ones guess.
Lord commander Stannis “the lame lord” Baratheon
Phil Necro,
There’s been so much much posted here (an embarrassment of riches), I’m sure I’ve forgotten some things, but I don’t remember that being posted here, and this is the site I trust.
Does anyone remember news that Davos was confirmed to be with Jon at Winterfell being posted here?
it would probably be eddison will be next lord commander no doubt about that
Seconded for all things Ghost. May he channel the power of the old gods with much resolve.
—
OT: I am so happy that there is only one more day for November 2015. The 2015 ASoI&F calendar image for November, which features a naked Tyrion with Shae, is getting tiresome. I swear Shae moves each time I look at it though.
I highly doubt it’s Edd, but Thorne seems the most likely candidate. Why Snow wouldn’t kill Thorne, or Ghost kill him for that matter, is strange. My guess? DAVOS SEAWORTH
Matt,
But Davos needs to get Rickon – unless they are really screwing with the story.
I’d suggest Davos is going to be Jon’s hand.
I know we’re in uncharted waters.. But I definitely could see Benjen eventually, with Edd (maybe only as acting LC) in between….
In the books, I think Benjen is back, as the hooded man, collaborating with the other northerners,and acting as the requisite “Stark in Winterfell” until such time as Jon / Rickon can be installed… I think the LC should be a Stark, for best results against the Others.
But the show has deviated from the books considerably in the northern story line, so who knows what gymnastics will have to take place to get the characters to where they need to be ?
Stannis would be awesome though as well
Why is everyone acting like Jon will have any say whatsoever?
He wasn’t an unanimous choice for LC anyway – Aemon was the deciding vote, and he’s dead. So in theory it’s split right down the middle. The show put a big crowd out there with Thorne. If Jon is resurrected, I wonder why people think he’s in any position to “appoint” another Lord Commander? He won’t even really be a member of the Night’s Watch – as evidenced by the fact that he DOES leave. Wildlings don’t vote, and I can easily imagine Thorne winning a vote, both before or after Jon’s resurrection.
Why would he be in a position to kill Thorne at all?! He wouldn’t be Lord Commander anymore. On what authority would he execute anyone? That’s silly thinking.
Also, people, show Davos has a wife and a family he spoke of fondly. On what planet would he join the Night’s Watch.
Simon,
I agree. Even though they changed the plot for Davos I still think he could be sent by Jon to find Rickon. Also Davos has a wife. Doubt he’d give that up for the NW. So I’m backing the idea that it will be Thorne… for a short while. Then perhaps Edd after the justice is hopefully dished out.
PS Edit: Could we get a poll of who is hated more at this point in the show? Olly or Joffrey? lol I’m betting Olly might win that.
Lord Commander Jaime Lannister.
Not Davos. He’s a married man, with a wife waiting for him.
Don’t know about Thorne. He assassinated a lord commander. I’m sure some men of the night watch are happy about it, but I can’t see him winning a vote. He might just take over, of course.
Stannis is dead, so would have to take over as a ghost.
Ghost is a wolf, so he can’t.
Maybe Edd?
edit: I think the night watch is not long for this world, so I’ll go with Thorne. He becomes lc, and watches his organization collapse. It would be just desserts.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
There was no news of Davos being with Jon in Winterfell. At least on this site. But he is confirmed to be in the Snowbowl I think. So that would rule him out as the next LC
My money is on Thorne. Davos has no reason to be in the Night’s Watch. I don’t think it’s Edd either unless there was a mutiny right after Jon got stabbed and the Wildlings and a few Jon loyalist got the upper hand over Thorne and co.
Nadia,
Because people badly want him to kill Thorne, Olly and the other mutineers. I would definitely like to see Jon kill Thorne before he moves south! But with the wildlings backing a resurrected Jon, Thorne and his suppoters might have find themselves outnumbered and at Jon’s mercy. I guess it depends on the Wildlings actions.
Obsidian,
Even in Benjen was back he would have to go to the watch unless of course he has died and been resurrected himself.
ghost of winterfell,
I don’t think Jon will be all vengeful as he knows every dead man woman and child is a soldier in the army of the others.
It’s also the connection with D they are about saving people not killing them.
Simon,
Well he could just burn the people he kills 🙂 . Jon may be about saving people, but I doubt that would apply to the people who murdered him!
Actually, TV-Stannis marching his men to the wall and having them along with himself join the Watch is exactly what should have happened given his early S5E10 position and TV-Westeros logistics. Rather, D&D had him get depressed and force everyone who followed him to commit mass suicide. And of course, Stannis would make a great Lord Commander.
Not sure about Aliser Thorne. When Jon is brought back, you guys don’t think that Thorne will be made to pay for his treachery? He assembled an attempt on the Lord Commanders life! Anybody else remember what happened to the last guy who did that? I think it will be Edd. Right after Jon beheads Thorne. The rest of the party should be hanged. Save Olly for last so he can watch the rest die.
Your new Lord Commander is … Ser Gerold “Darkstar” Dayne! For he is of the Night(‘s Watch)
Thorne did not kill Jon because of the Wildlings. He used that as an excuse because he hates Jon. If Thorne ends up being the LC say goodbye to the NW. They will not stand a chance with him as the LC against the WW.
It does seem a bit too obvious though for him to become LC. But with D&D who knows.
I think the question of who gets the next LC title really depends on what happens to Jon. We still don’t know if he’ll be brought back in front of everyone, or in secret, or at all, really.
If he isn’t revived in a big show in front of all of Castle Black, he won’t have any influence at all, and Thorne would be the safe bet. If he IS, say, during his funeral, I think he’d be free to aploint his successor.
Moosse Bolton,
Absolutely. Stannis is a perfect pick. The Battle of Ice was so beautifully nuanced in its setup in book 5, I really doubt D&D have just killed it off completely. And ‘go on, do your duty’ was the perfect response to a wannabe knight like Brienne. A knight’s duty is not to execute prisoners. Dragging him off to the Watch is much better. Now, where are his sellswords… (I know, most of the world disagrees, but I reckon it’d be brilliant.)
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Liam Cunningham was in Saintfield for almost the entirety of the Snowbowl shoot. And then he was at the wrap party for it with Kit, Hivju, Dean Jagger and Iwan Rheon. So yep. He’s at WF.
Stannis is a (dire)wolf?
To be serious: I wonder if the name Ghost is only about his white colour or if it will also be connected with Jon’s resurrection.
It depends ho quickly is Jon revieved. If Jon is alive with Wildlings., Thorne or anyone or the mutineers can’t be LC. If they delay his rebirth to ep. 5 or 6. Thorne might be it. Only Options to me are Thorne and Edd. Stannis is dead by all accounts and let it go. He would make a relly good LC though. It would undermine Brienne as a character. She choose her vow to Renly over Cat. No way they would let her screw two vows at one point.
Maceless Fan,
Hopefully not.
Simon,
I bet he will be diffferent and some vengeance will take place. In fact I would hate it if Jon comes back not changed in any significant way and basically improved version of himself like Gandalf. Not really LSH level of vengeance, but no longer honorable fool Jon Snow.
ghost of winterfell,
There’s just no way that Jon is going to be in a position to execute anyone when he comes back to life. And frankly, Jon would not kill more of the nights watch when he knows what’s out there, even with what they did to him, because I think you can fairly assume this new Jon Snow will still be focused on the real war with the Others.
Of course is not stannis or davos.
Davos will be in te battle. And he has wife. 0 CHANCE
Stannis is dead. And even if he is not he for sure would prefere die than joing the NW. He is too proud. No way.
So is Thorne or Edd. And like someone said. It will depends where jon will return.
1- If he comes back to all NW see,Every one will see he is special ,and for someone who said its silly to think he will be ablle to give some orders to kill thorne and the traitors think again. He will ressurect in front of the all NW , its something big and as i said before Jon never was looked by the man of the NW like a good comander but they respected him and folowd his orders. Was just a few cowards that killed him. Even if you dont agree with what your superior is doing you have to obey you have a vow. The traitors breaked a vow and even the man who dosent liked jon will vote in favor to execute the traitors. Arthur dayne and many others hated what Aerys was doing but they stand loyal to their vows. Like a lot of man in the NW does not like jon but they stand loyal. So im pretty sure they will want the traitors executed and the Edd will be next comander.
2- jon is ressurected away from the NW .maybe where the widlings are now. So in this situation thorne would be the new comander.
Has anyone suggested Lord Commander Ghost?
I cannot imagine a scenario in which Jon would have Thorne and others executed. Seriously people. Go watch the video of how many people were there. And then do the math on how many men are even in the Night’s Watch. If Jon had all the traitors executed, all of those on the scene, there would be like 15 people left in the Watch. He’s just not going to do that.
Nadia,
What if Wildlings take over Castle Black. Not that impossible to think about their numbers and then some vengeance for example Thorne. Their feud is there from the beginning. This would send a message. You really expect to let it slide just like that?
Geralt of Rivia,
I think he will be damaged by the experience like Beric Dondarion was but more human for having experienced death, knowing like Beric there is nothing after death.
If there is any killing to be had it will be for the good of all and burdensome duty as it is for D. Except of course when it comes to Ramsey Snow the Bastard of Bolton.
Nadia,
Jon could be in a position to kill the mutineers, esp if the wildlings are there at the Wall during the resurrection. I think it depends on where and when he is resurrected. Whether he then chooses to execute them or not could be the question. I hope he does. As for sparing Thorne and the others so that they can concentrate on the WW threat, its pretty unclear how seriously they take the WW threat in the first place. Because even after the Hardhome incident when the NW should have been worrying about the WW threat, they were more focused on the wildlings that Jon let through the Wall. So how effective would Thorne be as LC in such a scenario?
Lord Commander Tormund.
You heard it here first.
Lord commander seaworth… I like it! He was a better leader than stannis and he wasn’t even a leader.
I suppose gendry could have finally made it up that way too… Im totally kidding about that one…. kind of…
Stannis….he’s going to do his duty…as LC. (and Thorne et al will be executed)
It’s Thorne.
Whoever thinks Stannis is alive is either joking or in some serious denial.
Also on the question if Jon will kill Thorne, Olly,..etc.
Thorne yeah, he could execute him but I simply can’t see Jon kill a little boy or go on a rampage killing all of them. That’s if he comes back the same way he was.
To me the real question is if they will survive until Jon returns. I could easly see Mel and Tormund killing them. Davos would most likely object too killing a child, but it’s not like he has any power too stop them.
Nadia,
Yup just my toughts, we forget that the vote for LC was a tie, with Aemon casting the decisive vote.
Now you could say that Jon won over some men on his side, but he easly lost much more then he won over, by letting the Wildlings in.
Disagree only on Thorne, I could see Jon executing him but I can also easly see Jon letting him live. Olly won’t be killed by him or his order. Here I’m am quite sure and if it does happen I would be very dissapointed.
The real question here is what will happen until he returns. Will Tormund/Mel try too kill them? Will Tormund play it safe fearing that if he takes over, the lords of the North will attack him?
We must remenber, while we know that some of the North will rise against the Boltons, Tormund doesn’t. With Stannis dead he could belive the North is united under the Boltons, and may not attack the NW directly for fear of them attacking the Wildlings.
Just trying to apply some ‘real world’ logic here, realizing that it hardly applies to GoT.
The NW is there as a collective army of Westeros. What happened there is mutiny. It would only make sense that the powers in KL would send someone to retake control of the NW and take down the ‘self appointed’ LC Thorne.
So, they’d send someone who is loyal to the King, powerful, has nothing to lose and at the same time is a pain in the A**. Jaimy fits that bill.
Stannis LOL. Stannis is so last season.
Marco Duquette,
That assumes that anyone in Westeros gives a f*** about the Wall. As has been demonstrated plenty throughout, nobody does.
Mihnea,
I think that the strongest visual will come out of Thorne being alive at the Wall while it falls. So my guess is, he’ll survive for exactly that long, and the purpose of his election is exactly that final Kurtz look of *the horror… the horror…* (or, if you prefer a less literary experience, that final ‘oh, f***’)
Not Edd, he’s not LC material, Not Davos for many reasons, least being he’s married and not NW anyway. Thorne is the only *current* NW left that is capable of commanding. That he and his friends murdered Jon may not come to light immediately, (if ever, depending on where Jon ends up resurrected.)
If Jon is still at CB and Thorne was now LC I think like it or not he’d let it ride because he’d either do a better job than any of the other options, or (cheesy grin) he realises the WW will be all over CB sometime pretty soon, and if Thorne & his 15 or so murderous friends are all that is left to deal with it – meh 😛 They’ll serve the desired justice. Kinda hoping he forgives and understands Olly’s stance and takes him where ever they go.
Mihnea,
In the Jon’s assassination scene there were around 10 members of the NW. Jon not being dead and naturally not very happy for what happened to him will make all of Thorne’s supporters to shit their pants ala Sallhador Saan. I mean there are commentators here who think that to be resurrected is something natural and mundane, something that just happens, big deal. It is not. It is going to be a chocking moment with great consequences for the Wall. I do not think that Thorne stands a chance if the resurrection thing happens during the funeral pyre with Tormund and Wildling leaders around, with Mel and Davos and of course Jon’s supporters and Ghost. What happened to Janos was, I think, an indication. The show made it clear from the very beginning that Thorne has been obnoxious and an asshole to Jon innumerable moments. So it is a very personal thing between the two but also, as Janos’ case has shown, a matter of disobedience to the LC. Visually the audience is prepared to see Jon do his duty with vengeance. It makes no sense to have Thorne as LC just for the sake of him seeing the WW coming to knock down the Wall. Furthermore, the fact that Edd is still alive is for a purpose. Now we do not know how things will develop. What Mel and Davos will do. If they take Jon away from CB then I don’t see him coming back to revenge. But how this will happen when the Wildlings are still at CB? Tormund is also a main character in Jon’s arc he has to be involved somehow. So the scenario of Mel just taking Jon’s body and leave CB is somehow problematic. I think that the whole resurrection thing will be presented as a ritual around the pyre before the election of the 999 LC. It will have a more visually appealing effect. Of course there might be other options as well. Furthermore I believe that the whole post is a teaser against Thorne’s chances.
This is a little fantasy thing. Not sure if it will be materialised. But I think that this is the right moment for the Wall to have some extra glamour. If Sansa finds Brienne and Pod and they take her to CB imagine the cast around Jon’s pyre: Mel, Davos, Tormund, Wun Wun, Sansa, Brienne, Pod, Edd, maybe Theon. The best cast mix in a single scene after 6.01 and 6.07.
Wun Wun for Lord Commander! Probably not, shame.
Why not Benjen? If he is alive and comes back in time, he would be the ideal candidate!
Maybe the 999th LC doesn’t stay alive for too long. Then the 1000th LC brings doom on the NW. Either the 999th brings doom and the 1000th will save the NW, or the 1000th brings doom and there will be no more NW.
SJH,
Olly surviving to the end of the series while DnD killed off (prematurely, purists might say) so many book characters would be *amazing*. (They could even give him his own small reconciliation arc!) Sadly, I think he was just your typical auxiliary character, and his job done now, he’ll either get killed soon or fade into obscurity between seasons.
I’m really, really looking forward to the death pool this season. Have we finally reconciled who the dead-by-Ramsay are? My money is currently on Davos and the new Lord Umber doubling as a thin Manderly.
Yaga,
A few months ago I’d have cheerfully done him in myself 😛 More to the point I guess, was that I hope Jon doesn’t kill him, it’s more about what is says of Jon and who he might be now. But yes, true, if they’ll killed off Stannis and so many assorted others it doesn’t look good for Olly who’s outlived his purpose now. I dare not speculate on upcoming departures, but I have high hopes for Ramsay’s demise.
I’m not sure why everyone thinks Jon will not be resurected as soon as season 6 begins.
It seems to me when Thoros resurected Beric Dondarion he had to do it within minutes if not seconds after he “died” or am I missing something?
On the authority that the Wildlings outnumber the Watch 100 to 1, if not more?
On the authority that most of the Watch are going to be scared out of their minds to see a dead man running around Castle Black with a freaking Red Witch at his side?
On the authority of Tormund saying “You do what King Crow says or Wun Wun will crush you?”
If the Watch survives long enough to finally see the Others arrive at the Wall, it’ll be because Jon let them live. Jon may not execute Thorne, but I think he will, to set an example, and he will pardon the other conspirators, including Olly.
Jon’s resurrection will most likely happen at the Wall. Aside from the awkward logistics of Mel +/- Davos+/-Ghost escaping with a dead body, if Show Mel feels that, just like Book Mel, “her power is at the greatest” near the Wall she’ll definitely attempt the resurrection ritual there.
I think there will be chaos on the wall …team throne might try to eliminate wildlings..and in the process death in both camps…until Jon is ressuracted…He might calm things down… throne will not live beyond first episode….edd will be appointed next Lord commander..and Jon might be tempted to go south to provide safer place for wildlings…and also convince northern Lords to man the wall and alert them of the threat….until and unless Boltons are defeated it won’t be possible so maybe this could lead Jon to form an army resulting in battle of bastards….so in short…Ed is the new lc…
Vegodread,
One theory is that his body will be preserved in the ice cells at the Wall, there was a Bran vision in book 1/2, I can’t remember which, which seems to support that theory. My personal guess is he will be resurrected in Ep 2/3, instead of 5/6, but no one knows as yet.
Vegodread,
I agree 100%! I doubt the show will milk it very long, because they have to build up the B of B. And Jon’s just an awesome character 🙂
Simon,
I forgot all about that, and plus, Davos + Jon = AWESOMENESS! Who do you think is the most likely fit?
Yaga,
True but that had a purpose. There was no common enemy, so they became each others enemy. The last two (or three) seasons will (IMHO) shift focus on how the divided houses will be united and fight the common enemy again.
Vegodread,
Agreed. There is simply too much to set up, like the snowball, northen lords, Rickon,…etc. for Jon to come back so late.
My guess is EP 2-3 and at most EP 4 but I doubt this.
Also doubt he’ll come back in EP 1, it seams a bit too fast.
Yaga,
Seeing the purists rage would be so good. But the real reason I don’t want Jon too kill Olly is because that too me would no longer be Jon.
I know there are many theories on how he will change once he comes back.
But I think you can have quite a good story based on internal conflict rather then having him turn into ”evil”, ”ruthless” character.
I wouldn’t be angry if this happens but I will definetly be sad because then, for me, Jon wouldn’t truly be back.
On Ramsey, my bet is on Tormund. Haven’t found anything to give me a hint as too who is the second person.
Well to be honest, I haven’t found anything to point towards Tormund either, but I just have a ”feeling” here..
I think it will be Thorne, because there will be an election before Jon’s revival. And after that, Thorne will die (Slynt was executed for less) and Davos will be a good LC until the Wall falls.
I still miss Ghost a lot.
Matt,
Stannis is dead ffs. He was a B+ character and he died like one,he has no point in the end game .
George,
The wildlings don’t outnumber them 100 to 1 ,stop exaggerating,it’s more like 5 or 10 at most . Most of them died at Hardhome and the ones who made it to the Wall are either women,old people and children who are starved ,mostly .
Last scene of episode 1 :
The new Lord Commander, Thorne, agrees to give Jon’s body to the wildlings after Tormund’s request. They burn him on a pyre outside Castle Black. Melisandre shows up, with a mysterious bag in her hands. She looks depressed and say “I have lost my king. The Lord of Light abandonned me. Now I’m going to be one with him, in his fire… And I take these three dragons eggs I collected in Dragonstone with me. Since Azor Ahai died, they are useless”. And she jumps into the fire with the bag full of dragon eggs. A few hours later, when the fire dies, Tormund finds Jon, naked but alive and unburnt except for his hair, with three dragons across his shoulders. [Epic music of season 1 ending][fade to black]
Davos for Lord Commander? Just a thought, he would be good at it.
I think Thorne will take command as soon as Jon is dead, however I do not think that it will last long.
What about Roose?
While he has generally played the villian, it is really Ramsay that caused the most problems. Maybe after the battle of Winterfell, Roose is given a choice.
Of course, if the Wall comes down, then it makes sense Thorne takes command, and proceeds to lose the wall.
George,
… “to see a dead man running around Castle Black with a freaking Red Witch at his side?”
Hahaha yes there is that. I’m getting a feeling that the story is leading towards a bigger part for the Red witch as in she and Jon together could be the song of Ice and Fire. They each have the blood of both lines if R+L=J and Bloodraven + Shiera are Melisandre’s parents is true. (Stark first men and Targaryen dragon) and the two elements, magical energies, whatever you want to call them, will become united and powerful through them in order to fend off the army of death/darkness.
Or something like that….:)
Just how many members of the Watch do you think are left in the show?
In the books, the Wildlings easily outnumber the Watch by that number (100:1), if not more.
You’re right, presumably due to budget, it is less in the show…but not a whole lot less.
dothrakian raven,
“Visually the audience is prepared to see Jon do his duty with vengeance.”
Hell yeah. And I want to see something epic with the resurrection if that is indeed what will occur. Not just some body smuggling and secret little ceremony. Let him be burned in front of a crowd with a weeping Edd, angry Tormund and smug little Olly. Then all of a sudden out from the smoke emerges a bigger and fiercer Jon with flaming sword in hand as a beaming Melisandre turns around to give the treasonous watch brothers an evil smile.
What if Jon does not take vengence at all, but instead opts for consolidation of Night Watch (because everybody is needed for fight againt WW)
Marco Duquette,
But probably KL doesn’t even care about that at least not right away. A little boy is King. Cersei has her own issues right now lol. The mutineers certainly aren’t going to send ravens to announce what they did and even when they find out , Jon may be our hero, and the wildlings but he’s not anyone else’s, yet. For all the people of Westeros know (besides the loyal houses of the North), he’s a traitor just like his father was portrayed as. They’d most likely believe Thorne’s story, who’s been there for so many years.
Moka,
Ha, I don’t think we’re going to see any more baby dragons in this story.
After reading all the opinions in this thread, I’m definitely leaning towards Edd as the new LC. There has definitely been some foreshadowing, and in the books he hasn’t really contributed a lot to the story yet (aside from some really funny lines). I could definitely see him as an unwilling LC, perhaps elected on the recommendation of Jon (whose voice will probably sway people if they have just seen his magical resurrection). Remember, two people did vote for him in the previous election (much to his disgust), and Jon appointed him steward in the books (which is apparently a role in which to groom Lord Commanders). And House Tollett’s words are “When All Is Darkest”.
As for Thorne – is he even present at Castle Black in the books? I’m trying to remember where that weasel was….wasn’t he sent out ranging before Jon’s murder, and hadn’t yet returned? I know the show deviates from the books, but it seems highly unlikely he will be LC in the books, unless he happens to return at just the right moment (although in another way, it’s more likely in the books, because at least he won’t be executed for the murder of the Lord Commander, which I’m pretty sure is going to happen in the show whether it’s Lord Commander Edd or Lord Commander Stannis or whoever takes over the job).
Speaking of Stannis – that’s a real left-field suggestion, which some have made, and I lean towards believing that he really is dead. But it would be a great story, to have Stannis dragged to the Wall by Brienne and take the black, then elected Lord Commander. I could definitely see it going down that way in the books, if he loses the battle. It would seem to be the perfect story arc for him. But, yeah, he’s almost certainly dead.
Moka,
And then he leads the remaining members of nightwatch and wildlings through a desert finds a city from there goes to by a slave cavalry in the slave city and after seeing the atrocities committed in making the slaves. .he decides to free slaves and kill the slave masters by tricking them by selling a dragon. ..and then takes remaining slaver cities and stays in that area after deciding that there is still more works to do and he should stay there and help those who he freed and the dragons need to grow as well…
And then when the dragons grow and after ending slavery and gaining enough men behind him and dragons grown fully ..finally decides once again to return to westeros and face WW ..
On his return he meets dany and others receiving him and asking for the reason for his visit …he says I have come to help you guys fight the WW..
Arya : you should have came two books before and even the show has finished his run four years before . . dany here came to the help and her two dragons and my nymeria died fighting the war
Dany : anyway you are here .. Tell me wat u did all these years.
Jon tells his tale ..
Dany : its so similar to my story …
Jon : yes but I have got three dragons. .
Dany : so did I …I still have one more left with me even though my two dragons are dead …
Irri and jhiqui : it is known
Jon : but I have three and mine are bigger than yours..
Dany : you know nothing jon snow …smiles and calls ” Drogon”
Jon after seeing drogon : I guess we can marry and make a new kingdom..
Arya: guess you know something after all
silvesterus,
I don’t think that’s a satisfying outcome. At all. We have to see him get retribution of some sort. You can’t just stab the Lord commander to death and have him be like “Hey yeah what you did wasn’t very nice! But I’ll forgive you cause we have this war to fight.” He took Slynt’s head for talking smack and refusing to go where he told him to go. Hard to believe he won’t dish out anything for his own murder. Especially the coward way they did it. Makes me mad just thinking about that scene all over again lol.
And then, Benjen shows up : “Sorry guys, I lost my way in the forest… Did I miss something?”.
silvesterus,
What difference will a handful of stupid Watchers make in the fight of WW?
It’ll be Thorne. And I can’t see Jon doing an outright execution on him cause I don'[t see things being in any way “normal” at the wall at this point to where Jon will raise from the dead and just resume being LC but there will have to be payback. I just think it’ll probably be in more of a sneaky way somehow. I can’t stand Alliser and I don’t want an easy death for him either. I want him to have an epiphany first.
dragonbringer,
Nooo. I cannot see Jon and Daenerys together. He needs someone more down to earth who can show some emotion other than a stoic arrogance. I could have seen him with that wildling chick who got eaten by the zombie kids though.
Ygritte,
As Kit said it. Jon is looking for a Stark in the streets but a wildling in the sheets. Sorry Daeny. 😀
Chemistry was there, but shame that they killed her in the battle or massacre. Besides that Karsi would have been a great character going forward.
Geralt of Rivia,
Did he really say that? Lol. Yeah they did have some chemistry going on, at least going off the little scene they were in together. I couldn’t enjoy seeing anyone paired off with my fantasy bf in the show, unless it’s someone cool like her 🙂
Ygritte,
Yes. He meant it as a joke, but there is a gif about it on tumblr.com.
The minute she said “I’m right behind you, I promise” you know she was screwed. Tv rule. I hope that Jon will look out for her kids in the future with Tormund. Even Loboda was likeable. No news about Wildlings leaders makes me think Tormund will survive long enough or Wildlings might be meeting their end in that battle or at least huge part of them.
Sansarya,
”Liam Cunningham was in Saintfield for almost the entirety of the Snowbowl shoot. And then he was at the wrap party for it with Kit, Hivju, Dean Jagger and Iwan Rheon. ”
Davos is going with Jon. I clearly remember too there was a post what confirmed that Davos is with Jon at Winterfell so it’s official already.
Jon will kill Thorne when he reborn. Thorne should not live after that he and his men did. Thorne was behind the whole ”Killing Jon plan” so he will die by Jon. And Olly was who mislead Jon and he will be killed by Melisandre for Jon.
Edd is the only choice.
Geralt of Rivia,
Loboda was Magnar of Thenns right? yeah, he was likable as well. Especially when he paired off with Jon and told him to get the glass while he bravely fends off the WW and give Jon the better chance. As he should have. As for Tormund I was liking their budding friendship. Even how he joked around with Jon when he was imbedded with them. Hope he’s one to make it through to the end and if he dies, it’s in a heroic fashion.
Finally Bran Stark news!! Thank you!! So excited!!
Sam’s my man! He is pretty smart. He will quickly figure out how to beat those blue eyed crazies, rush back to the wall (maybe Dany could give him a lift on one of her dragons in return for some pointers. on how to train her dragon. Ups sorry ,wrong movie) No doubt in my mind- he would be a great LC. He also has another thing going for him:HE IS NOT DEAD! ( like Stannis) ooooo
George,
We were talking about the show,right ? I don’t care about the books,they will never be finished anyway . Might as well talk about pineapples .
Pineapples are delicious but perhaps too juicy.
Ha ha.
Recently I read the three novellas “The tales of Dunk and Egg” (and that was really good). When I finished, I wanted to know if there is any sequel planned, and then I read that GRRM want to write 8 or 10 books… I laughed hysterically. I mean, I love GRRM, but since he write one of these books every 5 years, it would take him at least 40 years to finish these tales (and let’s not talk about ASOIAF and his other projects in between). I think he has some time perception issues…
Has anyone seen this new poster? Sue, do you know if it’s legit or just fan-made?
http://flashmovienews.com/5136675-15866978
Ygritte,
Only known Magnar on the show was Styr. Loboda was simply wildling leader or elder, but they never said anything about him being Magnar. Who knows, maybe he was. He was very brave to go up against WW dude like that and it was funny considering that he was ready to kill Jon in that same hut and he basically told to stick up that glass up his ass. Later they needed that glass.
Power of the beard will keep him alive. Jokes aside. Tormund is great and our only recongnizable wildling leader. Unless they will introduce another leader or wildlings will simply small to no one part in the upcoming seasons. He will stay.
More worried about Davos, Edd or Ghost. Even Wun Wun. Our favourite giant.
It’s fan-made 😉
Ser Blount Sarkasm,
Came to post this. I thought stannis would live up to be the 1000th but in show canon, i’m fine with Davos.
The show isn’t based on “pineapples”.
Highly unlikely, but Jorah Mormont would seem a nice fit. He has the genes, at least.
I, too, am a Sam fan. I think that he will be instrumental somehow in discovering ways to overcome the WW problem, maybe find the formula for forging Valyrian steel or some unknown weakness the WW have.
But I don’t think he would make a great LC at all. In his own words, “they can bloody try” to separate him from Gilly forever. I rather doubt he will be in a hurry to return to the wall. Also, Sam wasn’t cut out to be a leader, he’s more advisor material, the brains behind the throne, so to speak. Unless he has a major change in personality, he’s not going to easily handle mutinous cutthroats. Or want to, after the beating he took protecting Gilly from those thugs.
Yes, this is the first season I’m excited about Bran’s arc. Yet, did anyone look closely at the picture at the top of this thread? Whose bones are those, scattered all over? Am I being overly squeamish, or is no-one else creeped out? Do we have reason to fear for him? Other than the fact that he will be forever in a cave, twined into tree roots.
No, really, whose bones could they be? Children of the Forest? The skeletons look too big to be CotF. And why didn’t the CotF clean that mess up? Did the books mention other humans being able to find the Bloodraven? Are those skeletons of wights that got through the door, before the wight zapper was installed?
Red Viper of Dorne,
Very fake. The only legit poster is the Jon Snow one.
I had no idea (some) people had such strong thoughts about Jon killing his killers. In my mind, what they did was to some extent understandable (in the show and in the books), and I don’t see Jon as LSH Mk 2, so I don’t think he will be overcome with vengeance…
I like the idea that his resurrection will occur at the funeral pyre, during the burning of his corpse as LC. But I don’t see Jon killing Thorne there. Not yet.
Oh well. Either way, I think we can all agree that Thorne is not surviving the season, right? Either to Jon or to the Walkers…
Sue the Fury,
Thanks! Cool poster anyway!!
Stannis is dead, otherwise the show had fooled the audience with a camera trick!
i bet the people that believe that stannis is still alive are the same ones who think Meera is Jon’s sister and that the high sparrow is Howland Reed.
Thronetender,
Sam has come a long way since meeting Jon and there is no doubt in my mind he will play a huge part in the “end game”. Personal development set aside , the wind of change is blowing in with winter and who knows if there is still a need for the NW if the wall should fall. Maybe the NW needs to undergo radical change to survive or it will become totally obsolete? I see Sam as a wiser,more intellectual leader but also let not forget he has killed a white walker!?
Yes, Tormund is all kinds of cool. I agree, I think he will be the King of the Wildings. It was interesting to me that when Jon first came to the Wilding camp and was taken to meet Mance, Jon originally mistook Tormund as the King. Maybe foreshadowing, maybe comic relief. But Tormund is not going to bite it anytime soon.
As for Thorne – I don’t think Jon kills him right away. I don’t think the showrunners could resist the beautiful irony of a wight in Thorne’s face saying How YOU doing? Or disappearing in the wreckage when the Wall tumbles. Have to say though, Owen Teale does an admirable job of playing that wanker. (am I allowed to use that word, even if I’m not British? I just think it usually hits the perfect descriptive tone and fun to say: wanker wanker wanker. Or did I use it wrong? I’m sure you will let me know. ) 😉 Don’t mind me, I find humor where I can.
I think it’s ser jorah mormont. He will either go their him self because of grayscale after finding out that Daenerys is safe, or Daario will force him there.
Thanks to those of you who answered my question regarding a confirmation of Davos in Winterfell. Now that y’all have mentioned it, I do recall he was all over the filming for Snowbowl, and I also remember that picture from the after-party. I just knew the most recent news we’ve heard of Winterfell was about LF, Sansa, Jon, Ramsay, and the giant.
So, yeah, I guess it is quite possible Davos does go to Winterfell, but what we have confirmed is he’s at snowbowl, not Winterfell.
Thanks, again.
As I was reading through the posts since last night, I had a vision which made me smile…Ghost ripping out Thorne’s throat. 🙂
Lord Benjen Stark .. The 999th Lord Commander of the Nights watch .. Wolf of the Winter .. has returned from the Lands of always winter .. there is something odd about him though ……. his eyes look dead .. as if he’s not the same man who went ranging beyond the wall and never came back … And that weird looking horn around his Nick … Something is in the air .. smells like death .. he’s hiding something we dare not ask .. Something is about to happen .. I feel it in my gut … And God help us all if we are not ready …. ( a deafening horn suddenly blows ) ………… “Crack”
crimethink,
I like the thought of seeing davos and jorah at castle black. But i believe the NW is doomes and i wouldnt want either of those two men there when the wall comes down
That’s a good one, it would solve the problem of whether Jon has to do it or not.
I have a strong suspicion that Jon Snows killers will have a realization rather like Brutus and the other senators of Rome after they murdered Ceasar. Quite to especially Thornes surprise I suspect wide spread disgust and anger at the small groups action against the Lord Commander, I believe this attitude of resentment among the majority of the nights watch will be particularly intensified with the nights watch likely in the first two episodes watching Jon Snow March south with all the wildlings after seeing him literally rise from the dead. My take is if Thorne actually becomes lord commander it will be the briefest stint, Edd or another is almost certain to be Lord Commander after the first 4 episodes. This of course is all speculation but I’d like to see it shake out in some version of that ?
Hodors Bastard,
I think so too. GRRM is clearly puttting an end to the NW and the Wall itself (lots of foreshadowing). And symbolically it will never get to the 1000th LC. It will end in a fiasco with people like Aliser Thorne at the helm. The NW is part of the old world… and it’s about breaking the wheel…ice, fire, a new world. I’d go as far as saying bye bye the Iron Throne too.
Hariette Tuttle,
While I don’t necessarily disagree that the watch and the wall may be done, it seems to me grrm has been steadily moving the world back to the days of magic and Heros
Thronetender,
The bones are those of previous the Greenseers who like Bloodraven have become one with the weirwood tree. Remember this was going on long before first men arrived in Westeros – thousands upon thousands of years.
RE Sam I’m sure he’ll head to D once he has the knowledge he needs (or to Jon and then D). Some how I think the (dragon) glass candles Sam has already encountered will be the key to Mel’s fabled flaming sword even if he doesn’t understand this himself.
I think
– Jon will kill Thorne and Olly
– Edd will be the new Lord Commander
– Jon and wildlings will recover the North
– Edd will try to block the white walkers pending the return of Jon.
sorry for my English
Je pense que
– Jon va tuer Alliser Thorne et Olly
– Edd va être le nouveau Lord Commandant
– Jon et les sauvageons vont récupèrer le Nord
– Edd va essayer de bloquer les marcheurs blancs en attendant le retour de Jon.
Somehow, I’m skeptical that a Loyalist is going to get many votes given the current atmosphere! Indeed, I wonder if there will even be an election, or if it will be declared that Thorne actually won the prior election given that Snow was a traitor and thus not truly a member of the Watch (or something like that).
Indeed, I now wonder if something more is afoot than we realized. We have wondered how Thorne et al. could do this given how many Wildlings are around. Is it possible that Thorne has been in touch with the Northerners, and that they are sending (or have sent) troops to Castle Black in order to eradicate the Wildling invasion? This has come up with the book, too: there are still some northerners there after Stannis departs, and people have wondered whether they will side with the Nationalists or the Loyalists. This might be our clue that they stand with the Nationalists: after all, they are the ones most threatened by (and harboring the most legitimate grievances with) the illegal immigrants.
True: but it should not be that difficult for the show to come up with another reason for Davos to do that. (Perhaps Davos, Mel, Jon and Wildlings fleeing the Wall run into Sansa fleeing towards the Wall: that would set up things well-enough.)
There is one big difference. Thorne made a snap decision that he later decided was a mistake. People do that. Jon willfully exaggerated (if not flat-out fabricated) stories about the White Walkers returning in order to abet a Wildling invasion of Westeros.
I would disagree, at least with the latter. Yes, magic is becoming more potent than it had been in a while. However, this is a character-story: and what we are going to see is that the “heroes” are human; they are the right people in the right place at the right time, and the fairy tales later describing their deeds take extreme liberties with the truth. What we are seeing/reading is the truth behind a future fairy tale.
That is still several seasons, isn’t it? Moreover, people probably have forgotten that he was not there in Seasons 2 & 3. Remember, people do not get hung up on details. (It’s particularly easy to forget when you binge-watch: the seasons get blurred together very easily that way.)
Am I the only one that can’t see Edd even accepting a nomination to become LC? Seems the last thing he’d want.
Given what just happened to Jon, and given that Edd is known to be Jon’s friend, I doubt that anybody would have the temerity to nominate Edd. That would be essentially painting a target on your chest.
In the immediate aftermath there has to be a confrontation, I seriously doubt edd and tormund will stand by with all signs pointing to mutany and do nothing, either thorne and co are killed or put in a cell or edd meets his faith. I don’t see thorne becoming commander unless the wildings are outside the wall and they kill edd, davos will not become commander straight away as he will go to winterfell with Jon, so if Jon is resurrected fairly soon ,I believe he will kill thorne and make edd commander and take Davos south with the wildings.maybe that’s just a quick thought on the matter, I really enjoy everyone’s comments, theories and information shared on this fantastic site, big fan of the books and show ,still learning and trying to piece things together with yalls help thanks
Wimsey,
Most Heros tend to be tragic figures in which sacrifice and the human fallibility of a man and his acceptance of it is actually the point of why we consider them Heros this is evident in our own real world mythology of heros
I also wanted to add that I believe jorah will end up in oldtown to get his greyscale seen to, will meet Sam he tells him of the ww he then eventually meets back with dany and they all link up in Kings landing by season 8 for the battle of the dawn
Ah, but who else will be supporting Thorne? Something we should ponder: did Thorne get reinforcements while Jon was away? There certainly are a fair few people in the vicinity who will not approve of what Jon has done.
True. However, heroes tend to typify very different types of stories than the sort that GRRM is telling.
Well all the Raven’s where being used by Jon and Sam asking different houses for men, so I doubt thorne could have got much word out for reinforcements and it takes a long time to reach the wall, I’m not saying its impossible as Mel reached the wall in a time bending fashion from winterfell and yes there are some there who are not happy with Jon but alot voted for Jon and I suppose support him, so by the looks of things the majority at the wall are wildlings ,but I don’t think thorne is that stupid to kill Jon with nothing really backing him up ,I doubt he would put himself in instant harm if he was surrounded by mainly wildlings ,so he must have some support or plan to allow his safety so you could be right. Unless it was an act of rage and stupidity that he already regrets. By the way there isn’t that many nights watch men left so it will be interesting to see the immediate aftermath
A White Walker set? Exciting! I hope it means we’ll visit their home town again, and see a bit more. Maybe their castle, little WW baby nurseries, etc.
Thorne as the next LC – I’m sure. What I don’t understand, is how much story is left in CB?
Also, by which episode and where does Daenerys meet up with Unsullied again, I wonder? Must be late in the season, a nd hopefully out of Meereen.
Bullshit. When you got the Wildlings at your Wall that you as the acting commander think are the real enemy and you do not believe in WW coming, you don’t open the door for thousands of your enemies and one big ass giant, when you got barely 100 or less of your own people inside. That’s not snap judgement that you regret for a man of his experience. That’s incompetence or stupidity in a defining moment, on top of being a traitor (because he did let the enemy in, the reason is irrelevant). Which makes Ser Alliser Thorne a complete fail for LC and worse than Jon.
Unless of course Ser Alliser believed in the WW threat and did the right thing letting them through (still a traitor to some of the crows), only to be a complete asshole later and kill his own commander in mutiny instead of standing by him and what he knew to be the right thing to do. Which is a sign of weak will and complete lack of spine. Still a fail for LC!
Maybe there really IS a big difference, Wimsey. Jon is actually more qualified. Smarter of the two too. Edd better get the nom.
It would be amazing to see their place where they dwell and to get some understanding how they develop crasters sons and hopefully see some giant spiders that they used to ride that would be awesome and give us an idea of how they are when they are not terrorising the north, maybe show us a softer side a little bit of humanity that will make us not look at them as evil monsters toy with our morals and maybe start to like or understand them, that would mix things up a bit. Also I’m hoping she meets up with the unsullied with a dothraki horde behind her maybe mid season as I don’t see them dragging out her stay with the dothraki that long , I see the dothraki forcing her to become a dosh khaleen if they find out about her and drogo as that is tradition for a widowed khaleesi ,that is when drogon comes to her rescue again and give her the opportunity to show her strength as she leaves the burning hut in tact and the khalisar follow her, just maybe i know her surviving the funeral pyer was supposedly a once off and she’s not immune to getting burned but maybe they will play on that more on the show, showing her as the true dragon. I do see mereen getting very messy and tyrion will lose control prompting him to release the dragons from their cell, which they will not attack tyrion while he sets them free , giving us the indication that he is a taygarean…???? Maybe so mereen gets burned down and she meets them all outside and they all decide to head to westeros.
DanTheMan,
He has to return there are so many plots connected to Jon that are already in place, it would seriously mess up the whole storyline if Jon was gone for good, the wall and nights watch would have an insignificant role to play , leaving the white walkers free reign to head south quicker than expected and nobody in the south fully understands the threat, so basically it would be a massacre after massacre of white walkers pushing south , and without Jon the main protagonist the show could finish next season easily.
The trip back and forth to Hardhome would have taken multiple weeks. That is more than enough time to get the news out. Moreover, look at it this way. Jon has sent out these ridiculous messages claiming that the White Walkers have returned. OK, it must be April Fool’s day at the Wall. Thorne now can send messages claiming that this is a ruse to get Wildlings to the other side of the Wall. Jon’s joke now takes an insidious turn: the White Walkers might be a fairy tale for scaring kids, but Wildings are a real and present threat. Ravens travel fast, but mustering men in winter takes time: so, those forces were not there yet.
(On that same note, it almost certainly took Mel some time to reach the Wall: however, storytelling often demands non-parallel presentation of plots. The book does this in a huge way, as the early Winter chapters cover events that happen before the late Dragons chapters.)
This is just conjecture: but it would explain a few things.
I can think of another alternative which has been gathering steam in my mind. Thorne knew that they probably could not hold the Wall against the Wildlings. Alternatively, he did not want to take the chance that they would take it. However, the reinforcements that he is hoping are coming are not there yet. Suppose that those are there now.
Here is the enigma that we never fully worked out: how could a small number of conspirators hope to hold Castle Black against the large number of Wildlings who now look up to Jon? I think that the answer has been staring us in the face: Thorne has gotten reinforcements from the Northerners who stand the most to lose from a Wildling incursion. It’s going to be their job to deal with the Wildlings: the NW simply is not strong enough.
This is something we have not considered from the book, either:
This would solve a puzzle that should have been nagging us (and which has come up occasionally. If so, then on the show Thorne was not guilty of the same thing as Jon: he either lacked the force to hold off the Wildlings or he needed the Wildlings through the gates to convince the Northerners to come to his aid.
This is pure conjecture, but it is conjecture that simplifies a few things. If true, then Thorne is not simply being a hypocrite or being a jerk: he’s been playing a longer tactic in an attempt to get rid of the Wildlings and Jon all at once. Indeed, perhaps he is taking the WW threat seriously: and he wants the Wildlings killed on the south side of the Wall so that they are not being used as blue-eyed zombies later.
Wimsey,
While what you are saying makes some sense, I do believe you have way too much content that would take up far too much screen time taking away from the already existing plots ,maybe some of what you are saying may tie in but with the introduction of new characters, the certainty of flashbacks, the return of bran and his storyline, there is just so much to fit in to next season , I think the aftermath and ressurection will not take up alot of screen time ,giving kings landing, winterfell, bran, riverlands and dorne enough screen time. I do like your theories.
crimethink,
Davos is out of question thanks to spoilers. Why would Jorah be heading there? He’s got some business with Daeny in Essos like trying to rescue her, help her to win the IT or just be her advisor and to never dissapoint her.
Doubt it. You are still thinking about the Jon we all know so far, after his rebirth he must kill all of the traitors including Olly symbolizing his new brutal and unforgiving way. “Kill the boy” indeed.
Thorne seeing Jon rise from the ashes will insist he was right in dealing with a traitor.
Newly risen Jon will insist he was right to let the wildlings through the gates.
Surely whoever is right should be decided in that age old Westeros tradition … by the Gods.
Jon and Thorne face off …. Thorne bites the dust and a new election is called which a now full believer, Othell Yarwyck will win.
Wimsey,
I don’t think Thorne even regrets the decision of letting them trough.
In my opinion it was the smart thing to do.
If he wouldn’t have let them in they would have certanly broke the gates and Jon would most likely execute him for treason.
So that scenario would result in his death. But letting them in opens multiple other possibilities. I’m one of those who really doubts Thorne will yell that he killed Jon. He could try to blame the wildlings or even some other NW people.
Also at that point, most of the NW probaly realized that you either let them in peacefull or they will come in by themselves. I mean what do people think Jon would have done, if Thorne didn’t open the gates. Just leave?
On Tormund:
What is often said here, as fact most times, is that Tormund will act. I also belived this but know it looks very unlikely too me.
The Wildlings killing NW men and taking over would look bad, bad enough for the northern lords too attack and come in the NW defence.
Here is where your tought on Thorne having reinforcement gave me an idea: What if he tells the Northern lords that the Wildlings attacked the NW and killed the LC? Who do you think the Lord will belive? A wildling or a seasoned ranger of the NW?
Anyway my point here is that Tormund may not directly attack. He could be afraid of the Northern lords moving against his people, especially now with Stannis dead. While we know that some Lords will rise against the Boltons, Tormund sure as hell doesn’t.
So all in all I think that Thorne doesn’t regret his decision but most likely that was his plan all along, when the Wildlings entrance was already unavoidable.
Yaga,
“In my mind, what they did was to some extent understandable (in the show and in the books)”
Blasphemy!
🙂 I don’t know much about books but in show I don’t find it understandable at all. Just for trying to get as big an army as he could in order to save as many lives as possible? Yes, it was a risk but he knew the wildlings better than the rest of them and realized they were just people too and part of the realm he swore to protect.
Bronn’s Bro.,
I think that’s how it should, hopefully, play out too. The audience needs to see retribution to that end. If he doesn’t encounter Olly for awhile though we could see him show some mercy on the kid, if the kid demonstrates remorse for his actions and begs Jon’s forgiveness unless we get a Jon 2.0 that’s totally ruthless and a killing machine . Then again, how could the boy do that when Jon took him under his wing and was so kind to him. Eh, don’t care what happens to him really.
Mother of madness,
Sam’s character is most assuredly set up to be an important player somehow. He has the whole cowardly underdog to savior of the day arc. I thought could be something to him becoming a Maester. Right after the season ended and before we got spoiled that Kit was on set I thought perhaps Sam could be the one to revive him. Normally it would take too long for him to learn the arts, or potions, that could empower him with that ability but if he were lucky enough to stumble upon some important book passages or artifact and rush back to castle black….
Do you think we’ll get to LC #1000? I’m not sure whether it stops at 999 before reaching the nice round number (this has to be painful to watch for the guy from Birdemic…) or the big price for the 1000th customer uh I mean LC is to be annihilated by the WW.
Regardless whether the NW will be destroyed under #999 or #1000, I think it will be meant to evoke a clear reaction from the audience. So there are really only two options:
A) We’re supposed to be shocked and sad about it, in which case there has to be a LC the audience likes or at least not flat out despises. Edd would fit the bill, but some more important character (and now superfluous POV) would fit even better. Davos and Jamie have been mentioned, I guess there are others. Sam maybe, but his arc doesn’t point towards that outcome, I assume his main purpose is to inform Jon about how to defeat the WW after they breached the Wall.
B) We’re supposed to be glad about it because there’s only a bunch of dickheads left at the Wall, in true GoT fashion contradicting that with the disastrous news it is for the rest of Westeros. In this case we’d probably get Alliser or some other despicable character. Ramsay is a great candidate, too, if he somehow survives the Snowbowl. I can’t think of anyone else who fits that bill and has been around for several seasons.
Wimsey,
Mihnea,
I think that Wimsey mostly talked about the resolution of the situation going *forward* – i.e. right now, Jon’s dead, but Thorne finds himself and the Watch surrounded by and outnumbered by the wildings. What now?
Personally, I think that right now, the northern lords care about the Wall about as much as King’s Landing does. They have their own, more immediate, political concerns. So, I see the resolution of the Watch/wilding standoff as an exclusively internal thing. (Although that certainly does not mean that Thorne cannot *count* on help from the Realms. Help from the Lords *is*, in fact, his only rational hope. He just won’t get it, and the resolution will come earlier, when Jon is resurrected.)
Conan Troutman,
“Edd would fit the bill”
Isn’t it a shame that we have nobody left at the nights watch to care about except for Edd? There’s like nobody besides him that will have a positive reaction to Jon’s comeback. (they killed Grenn too soon.)
Yaga,
I never said that the Northern lord will help Thorne.
What I said is that the threat of them attacking the Wildlings, will make Tormund think twice about attacking the NW.
Irishton,
Regarding Dany and the burning tent, assuming that a meeting of all the Khals was going on in that tent to decide Dany’s fate, maybe instead of Drogon rescuing Dany once again, it is Dany herself who orders Drogon to burn down the tent? Of course that would mean she has to know beforehand that he is around. If so, then Dany through her own actions, would not only show herself to be immune to fire, but also ensure that all theKhalasars aasembled in Vaes Dothrak are without a Khal at the same time. Much easier to take control of the Dothraki then. I guess I don’t want to see her being rescued again.
As for her other 2 dragons burning down Mereen before she reaches the place, I think, considering the amount of time Dany has spent there, she herself should see the Mereen problem to its conclusion.
“In a book, you can present that kind of ambiguity,” Weiss said. “In a show, everybody sees it for what it is. It’s that rule: ‘If you don’t see the body then they’re not really dead.’
Stannis, that is all….
I don’t think any time would be needed. You would just need Northerners up there and all of 2 lines between Thorne and some hairy guy in Northern armor. After all, the show (like the books) has well-established that the Northerners fear/hate the Wildlings because of constant Wildlings raids.
I think that he can tell them the truth. After all, Jon would have shattered his own credibility with claims that White Walkers were returned. The LC is either not serious, insane or worse. Thorne can tell them: “worse: he went native while with the Wildlings and then tricked us into electing him.”
That written, I do not think that either show or book need to go into much detail on their different ways of doing this if, in fact, this is what is happening.
Ygritte,
I always thought that Sam is George R R Martins Avatar in the books. Not only do they share certain physical attributes but both have a love for learning and history. I am sure that through Sam Martin will push home the point that brains will win over brawn.Sam will dig up some long forgotten knowledge that will help to bring down the w w. Thronetender thinks Sam is not a leader. Maybe not . But he made Jon the LC,there would not be a LC Jon Snow without SAMs inspiring speech. And if there should be a NW at the end of season 6 and a wall to protect then Sam will surely play an important part in this as well
Ygritte,
That may be deliberate, to give us a reason to root against the NW.
Actually, I am thinking of a “here and now.” The outstanding question that has been raised several times (regarding both book and show) is: why do the Nationalists think that they can get away with it?
Something that we have failed to take into account is the northerners. In the book,
Hence my conjecture: Thorne has warned them about the possibility of a Wildling invasion and possibly even that he suspects that the current LC is in league with the Wildlings. This would all be true: and the best kind of truth in the world is one that you already wanted to be true.
A Wildling invasion would trump the intra-northern concerns. One lesson of real history is that nothing unites conflicting factions like the presence of a known enemy. (Oddly, the appearance of a new enemy has the opposite effect: people always believe that newcomers can be used to settle old local grudges; historically, that only works out well for the newcomers….) Wildlings are a known enemy, and the Northerners maintain the Wall because of the Wildlings. Do the Boltons’ suck? Sure. However, they are bad Northerners, and bad northerners are much better than “good” Wildlings (pardon the oxymoron). Indeed, the Boltons would rush to the aid of other northern houses in a Wildling invasion in part because it would be good politics (“see, we are not so bad!”) and in part because a Wildling invasion is roughly just as much a threat to the Boltons as it is to all of the other northern houses.
Again, this is just conjecture: but I think that it could be a piece of the puzzle that we’ve overlooked when discussing both book and show.
Wimsey,
Add to this the fact that Castle Black can’t be defended from the south, which would be the direction the northern lords would be coming from.
Wimsey,
Normally, I would agree with you about the ‘uniting’ effect. But in this case… the North is huge, and not really very inhabited. I never really got the sensation that the wildings are that hated among the Northern nobility anywhere except the Wall. (Peasants are another thing, although for some reason I had the impression that the peasants near the Wall – Olly’s family etc. – were there to supply the Watch.) Just a nuisance, at best. So that’s why I largely discount ‘wildings’ next to ‘that guy who skinned Lord… ‘ whatever that was? Cerwyn? …in the hierarchy of importance. That guy may next want to skin *you*. Wildings are a threat to peasants, they don’t touch the 1%.
I think that both the show and the books indicate that the Northerners think that the Wall is important solely because of a perceived threat from Wildlings. That is the only reason why the Westerosi support the Wall.
And, remember, in this world, a threat to the peasants is a threat to the lords. When towns are raided, it’s not just the peasants’ crops and possessions that are stolen: it is the lords’ property that is damaged and their crops that are destroyed. They own it: the peasants just live on it. Moreover, the lords’ pact with the peasants is that the peasants feed the lords and the lords defend the peasants, or at least organize the defense of the peasants: obviously, the peasants form big parts of their armies. The relationship here is more “symbiotic” than, say, the relationship between the modern 1% and the modern peasantry (i.e., the rest of us!).
At any rate, look at it this way: lords, not peasants, are the ones who send food and other supplies to the Wall that would profit them more to keep or sell. Lords, not peasants, enforce the rules about deserting the Night Watch. Lords, not peasants, give criminals the option of joining the Watch. Lords, not peasants, decide how much taxation there should be to support the Wall. Etc., etc.
So, it very much is the case that it is historically much more realistic for Northerners to put aside their own differences in the face of a common enemy. Humans almost always settle internal disputes after the external threats are ended. Me against my brothers, my brothers and I against our cousins, our family against the world: that is how all primates operate, and we are no exception.
Wimsey,
I just don’t see it happening ,you can put some great theories together that fit into things but my opinion is that i definitely don’t see it happening the only encounter the northern lords will have with the wildings will be the one fighting against them with the Bolton’s and with them for Jon and sansa at winterfell
Bang on!
For me the LC is obviously gonna be Thorne. Perhaps elected, perhaps self proclaimed. Nobody else has the ability or is recognisable enough to fill this role on the show. And it’ll likely be the undoing of the NW.
What I find strange is that nobody has even raised the point of just how weird Jons ressurection is going to be considered my anyone who knows what happened/ witnesses the event. I really can’t see anyone embracing the guy and surely he’ll be seen as an abomination (perhaps even as a raised wight)? Nobody is gonna listen to Mel if she proclaims him as AA surely?
My guess is that Thorne tries to wipe out the wildlings and Jon cuts him a deal- freedom for them and release from his vows in return for keeping his mouth shut and a relative peace treaty with the Wildlings.
What would Thorne gain by having Jon keep his mouth shut? The more Jon speaks, the more that he pronounces his own treason. Remember, the men of the Night’s Watch are not sworn to blindly follow the Lord Commander: they are (insofar as anybody is concerned) sworn to defend Westeros from outsiders. Thorne & Co. will not be seen as oathbreakers by the most people in the outside world: they will be seen as justly removing an traitor from office.
Indeed, my bet at this point is that Thorne already has advertised Jon’s apparent treason to the outside world.
As for Thorne wanting to wipe out the Wildlings, I agree. However, the old phrase “you and what army” comes to mind. I think we have overlooked the possibility that Thorne has gotten an army, or at least enough of one to do this. The NW alone is not enough to wipe out the Wildlings: yet Thorne & Co. (or Marsh & Co. in the books) just risked having them attack by attempting to kill Jon. This makes much more sense if they think that they have manpower supporting them than if they just acted out of the blue.
(Again, this is pure conjecture: but it is a conjecture that simplifies things rather than complicates things.)
They need not be the same northerners.
It is quite possible that Mel will be the only one to witness it. After all, she is the only one that needs to be there! Indeed, it would be a lot simpler: the Nationalists probably would not let her near Jon’s body, and they probably would intend to show her the door quite soon, anyway. The same is true in the book:
Benjen Stark returns to Castle Black and becomes LC in a unanimous vote. I know, no chance that happens but hey, a girl can dream can’t she?
Abhi,
Dang I didnt Kill Thorne
Ygritte,
THIS is how it will happen
Stannis would make the perfect LC…but he’s definately dead…right!?
Unlikely, as he’s got business elsewhere but Jaime as LC would be interesting. I think the only way of him getting out of the story alive is in the NW (if it exists by the end) and even then it’s incredibly slim!
The “several seasons” part would argue against that. He was in, what, all of three episodes, and none after the first half of the first season?
Stannis would make an awful LC for all the same reasons he would make an awful King: moral absolutists just cannot “bend” before they break. And, let’s face it, the only thing that might have gotten Stannis to put aside his claim to the throne other than death would have been accepting a Targaryen monarch. Stannis might be able to rationalize that as returning to his original vows. (But, then again, maybe not!)
after rowing for several seasons and an indeterminate amount of time…
Gendry finally arrives at eastwatch by the sea. Sadly, his dick is severely infected from a rough leeching and months (years?) with no food, water, map, or compass. That’s enough to make me swear off women for life.
Mallory,
We share a dream . That would be soooo cool and I have not given up hope. Martin had a plan when dreaming up Benjen and I can’t wait to see it finally play out.
Moosse Bolton,
I think it’s Stannis. His family is now dead and he knows the Wall, hell he even fought for it. I don’t believe Stannis would ever go down without a fight.
Bronn’s Bro.,
Good choice but I think that comes later.
Wimsey,
Actually, I think he’d make a great war-time commander but you’re probably right about how he’d fare during peace time. I think Jaime will end up Commander of the Wall in the end.
If Stannis had been more flexible, then he could/would have allied himself with Robb Stark and defeated the Lannisters. As it was, he put the Starks and Lannisters in the same “not with me, therefore against me” camp.
Probably not:
The show has offered half of the foreshadowing: my bet is that the rest will come this year or next.
As for who rules the Wall in the end, well, who knows if it will be necessary?
But he didn’t, did he? He died fighting after the most of his army was destroyed. Remember, Brienne killed a dead man walking (or sitting): the leg wound that Stannis took would almost certainly have been a slow and agonizing death. That is assuming, of course, that he was not found by more Bolton men before then, or wolves or bears (or snarks or grumpkins).
Ironically, Brienne probably granted Stannis a mercy by sparing him a lot of impending agony.
What about Jorah Mormont? He has been on the show for several seasons. His father was the prior Lord Commander. He is from the north. He just found out about the mutiny from Tyrion last season. Although he’s looking for Dany now, she might well ask him to serve her by going to the Wall. He has greyscale and wants to live out his final months in honor.
But my Black bros just call me Leek.
And book Davos has not only a wife, but also three surviving sons IIRC. Plus, an old sea dog like him would pine away if he had to spend the rest of his life so far inland. I could see Jon appointing him his temporary deputy, though.
Has anyone speculated that the next LC could be The Onion Knight? His king now dead, he has no one left to serve. Perhaps he’ll take the black? I’d still put my money on Thorne, though.
gatdang,
B&W are adapting, not inventing. Thus, I would bet that the next LC will be the same in both the book and the show, OR be the show character that already has been substituted for the book character (e.g.,
If you had a loved one who was developmentally disabled, you would think twice about using the word ‘retard’ as an insult. It is so not cool.
I just don’t see jorah surviving that long, I think it’s setup that he will die by the sword knowing he hasn’t much to live for, he will die saving his true love his perfect death, but not until he sees Sam first.
You just took me right back to a little chat between Samwise and Frodo just before they ascend the stairs to Cirith Ungol.
Firannion,
Well grrm wants to finish asoiaf similar to lord of the rings so there you go
Personally, I’d give a lot to see the look of utter chagrin on Dolorous Edd’s face if/when he’s named Lord Commander!
Hightower,
Wtf would he ever join the people who refused to help him and he’s married
heh, yeah, except for one huge difference: Tolkien held that moral “truths” are held in fairy tales, whereas Martin holds that self-serving propagandas are held in fairy tales!
In ‘On Fairy-Stories’ he was talking not so much about moral truths as balm for the psyche: in Tolkien’s own words, ‘fantasy, recovery, escape and consolation.’ All things that the generation who survived World War I needed badly, but all people do at one time or another.
But what I was getting at was Samwise’s epiphany that the people who later go on to become the heroes of legends don’t perceive themselves as such when the story is still in progress. They’re just regular folks caught up in difficult times, putting one foot in front of the other, doing what they have to do. I think that jibes very nicely with GRRM’s theme about bravery not being the same thing as fearlessness.
In some ways the two authors’ approaches are not nearly so diametrically opposed as some readers like to make them out to be for comparison’s sake. I think that there’s a deep humanism underlying both, and readers who pigeonhole GRRM as a cynic because he treats war, violence and humans’ capacity for cruelty with realism are missing an important point. (Not saying that you’re doing that, but I do find myself losing patience with some ASoIaF/GoT fans who dismiss Tolkien’s work as a simplistic good guys/bad guys saga. They’re missing important points as well.)
An ironically positive outcome surrounding Dolorous Edd, the most pessimistic man in the North. Love it, Dazzatron.
The fly in the ointment over this is that Thorne’s line about Jon getting the NW all killed has possibly hung the gun for him dooming them himself, the stupid bastard. I prefer to believe in a fanfic universe where your LC of Edd takes over, repels the Walkers, and distributes black pudding to everyone (in the books, this is literally the only thing he gets excited about – horse blood sausage).
Indeed they are. The most obvious morally grey character in both the book and the films is Boromir. It’s wrong to interpret him as merely having been warped by the Ring or secretly being evil and falling victim to human greed. Sean Bean’s ‘One does not simply walk into Mordor’ line has now been an internet meme for 14 years; yet everyone saying LOTR is pure black and white has totally missed out what that soliloquy was all about. He’s the only person at that council who lives in a war zone. His values are concurrently different – no kidding.
The two of them are then married by Melisandre in the Light of the Lord.
This has turned into the fanfic thread, officially.
Denethor is also a very grey character. So is Thorin. So is Thranduil. Elrond is an overly controlling father (especially in the movie version). We learn in the Silmarillion that Galadriel rebelled against the Valar in her youth; she’s almost an analogue of Milton’s Lucifer. Elementals like the Ents, the Beornings, the eagles, Bombadil and Goldberry are all morally neutral, even if they do see fit at times to help our heroes. Hell, the character by whose actions the fate of Middle Earth is ultimately determined is a grey character: Smeagol!