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If there was any part of you that held doubt that you might not be emotionally invested come the onslaught next week, AKOTSK put that issue to bed without its dinner.
Installment 2 of the conclusion of the greatest show that ever was or ever will be gave Westeros a new knight, possibly the best fireplace congregation of all time, one less virgin, a distraught Queen, and a newly-crowned Westerosi Idol.
Come forth with a man, and let us prepare for an episode next week that will likely leave Winterfell (and all of us emotionally) in ruins…
I’m not going to give you some long prelude to the occurrences. I’ll just say that this episode filled in a lot of what was left to be desired from episode 1. I liked “Winterfell,” but I loved this one. It felt different. It felt complete. It felt “the feels” as Ozzette put it.
Here we go:
The Kingslarraigment
We kick right off with the prosecution of Jaime for all of his past transgressions. This portion went about as expected although I was concerned that maybe the judges would more question his loyalty to Cersei and whether or not he was being strategically planted to infiltrate the enemy.
In the end, it was Brienne that stepped up to the plate convincing Sansa of his good intentions. Jon is only slightly preoccupied with other thoughts at the time.
And Dany? She’s more concerned with what Jaime did to her dad after admitting on multiple occasions that she knew how horrible a person the Mad King was. Her concern over whether or not her neck would be slit in the middle of the night was justified. But after the others vouched for him, she should have trusted them and welcomed him to the team.
Sample #1: Dany not happy.
Dany and her afflicted relations with Tyrion continue in the hallway as she calls him a traitor or a fool for not knowing Cersei wasn’t sending troops. Of course, she doesn’t know that Cersei used her pregnancy (mentioned later) to make Tyrion think her priorities had changed. Plus, Dany remains focused on the fact that Cersei still sits on the throne and she doesn’t which completely ignores the fact that THE FUCKING DEAD ARE COMING TO KILL THEM ALL.
Sample #2: Dany not happy.
Where’s the two-day shipping on my fucking weapon?
The sparks are flying with the forging of the dragonglass armament. Arya and Gendry have a few as well. Arya pushes Gendry to tell her about the dead and makes it clear that she is quite the warrior herself, pushing him to get her damn weapon made. Later on, speaking of shipping… oh God, I can’t even talk about it.
The Treeunion
Jaime and Bran meet up at the neighborhood Playground de’ Weirwood to discuss the whole “you pushed me out of a window after I caught you fucking your sister” conversation. This was also what I expected; that Bran holds no anger and understands that both of their paths would have been astonishingly different had the incident not occurred.
Later, the Brothers Lannister catch up while dodging Northman expectorate. They discuss Dany and mistakes Tyrion has made that justify her current doubt. This is where Tyrion also mentions Cersei using her pregnancy to make him believe she was telling the truth about sending the armies. Jaime gets distracted watching Brienne oversee training and goes to speak with her.
Podrick has apparently been showing up for practice early and staying late. Jaime and Brienne make small talk about it and discuss battle strategy when Big B asks where the damn insults are. Jaime then humbly asks to serve under Brienne giving us the kind of emotional reunion we were looking for from other characters in episode 1.
Jorah enters to speak with Dany in what appeared to be a discussion about the mistake of making Tyrion her hand. But instead, Jorah tells her that it was the right decision stating that he owns his mistakes and learns from them. I feel like this conversation will have a major influence in the episodes to come. He also has one more suggestion…
Dany goes to meet with Sansa to try and put aside their differences and work together for the greater good. When Dany finally stops talking down to Sansa, things seem to take a turn for the better until Sansa asks a legitimate question: “What happens afterward? What about the North?”
Sample #3: Dany still not happy and pulls her hand away from Sansa. And what was with the comment, “fighting Jon’s war?” Here’s another friendly reminder that THE FUCKING DEAD ARE COMING TO KILL YOU ALL!!
Then we get arguably the most powerful reunion yet… Sansa and Theon. How good was the acting between these two?
Davos’ Soup Kitchen
Davos serves it up hot and now when a little girl named Teela walks up and tells him she wants to fight. There was a definite reminder there of Shireen. You all emomo yet? Gilly talks the little girl into protecting her and Baby Sam in the Crypts.
Meanwhile, Edd, Beric and Tormund show up to tell Jon that the dead will be there before the sun comes up tomorrow.
In strategy room, Bran explains that the NK will come for him to create an endless night and erase all memories and men from the world. Bran says that he will lure him to the Godswood and Theon offers to protect him (the Redemption of Reek continues).
Tyrion gets relatively good news in that Dany commands him to be in the crypts instead of fighting (helping his death odds immensely). Bran also states that he doesn’t know if dragonfire will stop the NK.
This was a pretty telling discussion in that now we understand a little more why the NK is obsessed with Bran v3.ER. It also sounds like a decent plan if we assume that if they can kill the NK, the rest of the AOTD dies with him (see: wight heist, S7).
Side Note: The show runners could have devoted an entire episode featuring just Bran and Tyrion talking about their journeys to this point by the fireplace and I would have fully endorsed it.
And Now Our Watch Begins
Sam, Edd and Aejon all meet to talk about how far they’ve come since taking their oaths. Sam spouting his achievements to Jon after he suggests he goes to the crypts with Gilly and Sam was classic television.
Samwell Tarly Resume
Objective: To pursue a career in and actively contribute to the annihilation of white walkers, wights and associated frozen dead people.
Aliases:
- Slayer of white walkers
- Lover of ladies
Experience:
- First man to kill a white walker
- Killed Thenns (Edd note: a Thenn)
- Saved Gilly more than once
- Stolen a considerable amount of books from the Citadel library
- Survived the Fist of the First Men
Who wouldn’t hire Sam???
The All-Star Assemblage
The greatest fireplace convention of all time occurred before our very eyes starting out with two brothers but quickly growing to include Brienne, Pod, Tormund, and Davos. We were lucky enough to hear the bedtime story of Tormund’s giant killing at the age of 10.
And then one of the most powerful scenes ever happens when our Lady Brienne gets knighted by Jaime. I know these are fictional characters. I know this is a TV show. But dammit, I don’t care. That scene, the words, the ceremony, and her reaction were damn powerful.
Now please Brienne and Jaime… don’t die next episode.
Is That a Weapon in Your Pants or are you just happy to see me?
Arya finally meets up with the Hound and Beric but excuses herself to go find someone to spend her time with other than two miserable old shits. And then..
Then the real sparks fly. Arya learns that Gendry is Robert’s bastard and the clothes come off. Did anyone else think it was weird observing this person who we’ve been watching on television grow up from a little girl suddenly get naked? It felt kinda… dirty. But, good for them. It had been a long time in the making.
The Confession
I really wasn’t sure if Jon would tell Dany right before the dead arrived considering none of them may survive anyway. But he does in the best way that he knows how standing in front of Lyanna’s statue. Dany unintentionally opens the door by talking about Rhaegar and the rape that wasn’t a rape. Jon explains what really happened, how he found out and that he knows it is true.
Sample #4-#6: Dany now REALLY not happy. Upon learning that her brother was not a rapist, and was married, and had a son before he died, and that she has a family member who is alive and well and standing in front of her, Dany automatically doubts the validity and is worried about how this threatens her claim to the throne.
I understand her mission since the beginning has been focused on the throne and learning that she may not be the rightful heir could be very traumatizing considering everything she has been through. But right now, her actions do not paint a very pretty picture of her true character. I’m not saying she’s mad. But at a minimum, she is being undeniably selfish.
I hope this changes.
Episode 802 Personal Awards
Favorite Quotes:
“You want to know what they’re like? Death. That’s what they’re like.” – Gendry
“How do you know there is an afterwards?” – Bran
“He never should have trusted Cersei.” “You never should have either.” -Sansa
“What about the North?” – Sansa
“It could be our last night in this world, you know?” -Giantsbane
“I fought for you, didn’t I?” – The Hound
“Fuck tradition.” – Tormund
“I’d knight you ten times over.” -Tormund
“I hope we win.” -Sam
Favorite Sequence: The Knighting of Ser Brienne; the Theon and Sansa reunion, the Jaime and Bran reckoning, Sam giving Jorah “Heartsbane,” and basically anything Tormund says.
The “Ow, That Shit Hurts Award” goes to: Dany’s claim.
Official Season 8 Penis Count: Zero
Overall Thoughts: When Pod finishes up the party with a night-night song about Jenny and her ghosts and Sam lays down with Gilly and Baby Sam, Missandei and Worm kiss, and Theon glares into the eyes of Sansa, you know that we are getting near the end of the road for many of them. This episode filled in where episode 1 left me a little empty. I’ve always loved the Cogman penned eps and this may be one of my favorites. He’s always known how to get you reeled in just in time to break your damn heart. This one served the purpose. Next week is going to be rough.
That’s it for me guys and gals! Am I being too rough on Dany? How did you guys and gals see it? Thanks for putting up with my perspective and please share yours below.
Until next week, hang out and stay awhile. Invite a friend to join us. And may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz
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**SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leak) are not allowed in Unsullied posts. This includes spoilers covered by code or otherwise. Personally, I appreciate feedback from Sullied and Unsullied alike, so long as they do not include any type of hinting or conversation related to the written verse. However, spoiler coded comments do tend to lead to further Sullied conversation and for that reason, we ask that you please refrain from posting any SPOILERY content whatsoever in Unsullied posts. Thank you for the coop, ya’ shits. -Oz
Hodor!
Sansa and Daenerys lying to one another may have been the best moment of the episode.
I used to do a podcast where we covered GOT, but after season 6 I stopped because I saw the decline of quality… and season 7 only confirmed the problems I saw in seasons 5 and 6. But with season 8, in 2 episodes, I’m reenergized. 8.02 could make my top 5 of all-time list. Maybe top 2… maybe top 1!
Anyone else disappointed that we’re now have a whole season since Jon and Dany met and Jon hasn’t mentioned (to my memory) Aemon Targaryen. Maybe some wisdom from one of the more honourable Targaryens might be something she needs to hear!
could someone please tell me what Tormund actually said ,
because i must have completely misunderstoond/heard that part…
he killed a giant at age 10, then slept with its wife (at age 10? huh?)
and then the giant’s wife thought he was her baby after that, and nursed him by letting him suck on her tits for giants milk?
all of this while Tormund was 10 years old? what? huh?
Awesome part:
Theon checks all the courtesy boxes with Dany. Kneels, “in your name,” etc… Proper protocol. She can’t get mad.
But then she sees real love and loyalty and friendship between Sansa and Theon.
They fear you. They respect you. They don’t love you. They never will.
Some reviewer… think it was Vox, botched about Sansa-Theon ship. Stupid person. Theon just volunteered for the first suicide mission. The least Sansa could do is have a bowl of soup with him. No ship there.
We know at last what Pod did to those girls! 😮
My prediction based on their conversation and plans- Grey Worm will survive to fight his way back to his beloved Missandei only to find her dead or past saving. He eventually carries her ashes back to her home and releases them on the beach there. Then he stays to protect her people as he promised.
Easy review this week: Great episode.
Great review Oz. I don’t think you’re being too hard on Dany. I saw all the same things you mentioned. Ultimately though, I think the news of Aejon will be good for Dany (maybe not for her love interests), what better way to unite the North with the other six kingdoms.
At some point I think a battle must occur at KL based on the vision Fany had at the house of the undying. Will it be the AOTD or the remnants of Dany’s armies remains to be seen.
I hope we hear from Bran/Melisandre more explanation about the NK and his motivation. We heard a little in this episode, he wants to bring unending night (sorry, can’t remember exact words) according to Bran. Why? Let’s say he wins, kills everyone, then what? I’m dying to know more!
Cheers! 🍻
what a damn emotional feast.
I know it’s not rocket surgery but the more I think of it, we got such a conversation filled episode b/c for some of our favorite characters this will be the last time they speak!
Death is coming and as much as I hate it, a bunch of the good guys are going to answer its call. 😭
Are you being too harsh on Dany? No, not exactly.
But I think some people wrongly assume that Dany wanting the Throne is only about her wanting power… when in fact it is far deeper than that. Her entire existence has been rooted in taking back the seven kingdoms. That’s been her goal because that’s what she’s been raised to believe, and she built an entire identity around that. So to me, Dany’s reaction makes sense; she was hit where it hurts the most, like Jon, she’s basically lived a lie.
BevQB,
I would absolutely love this ending. Except for Missandei having to die though. But I assume that one half of all the relationships will perish.
Such a perfect episode! Yes, the feels!
Great recap as always Oz!
whocares,
I think he meant, he climbed into bed with her… Like to sleep. Not sleep WITH. If that makes sense. And the Giant woman assumed he was a (giant) baby instead of a 10 yr old boy, so she breastfeed him.
I’m still trying to process ASNAWP becoming a SuperVixen.
And (tinfoil alert) I’m wondering if the real Prince(ss) that was Promised was conceived last night.
Jay Targ,
Did anyone raise an eyebrow to Dany’s answer to Sansa’s question about what happens afterwards? I don’t mean about the North. Didn’t Dany just blurt out that she’ll take/sit on the IT?
This answer struck me as very blunt. Potentially a little short sighted too (I.e., what happens after Dany dies if she cannot have children). What happened to her tired speech of breaking the wheel, would have expected her to tell Sansa that schtick.
Rizzo T,
What do you mean by “rocket surgery”? Because coincidentally I did perform rocket surgery this morning to fix the fins on a vintage Estes Gyroc model rocket.
I think in ways people are being too harsh on Daenerys, it’s easy to forget what she lost for Jon and that here and now despite being unhappy she has brought everything she has to help win this war,. Daenerys has done more good in her time than anything bad and she is fundamentally good not power hungry, she understands the war’s gravity and has committed her remaining “children” and all her armies to help win this war. I think her reaction is quite understandable and not a reason to turn on the character peronsally, it has uprooted her entire reality and her whole purpose in her own eyes and I feel quite sorry for her really, I hope she does eventually find happiness and I think that will be with Jon.
The first half of this episode was fine, a better version of 8:01. But then the second half happened, and it’s frankly a distillation of most of what made the Battle of the Blackwater such a wonderful episode.
I’m pretty sure that this episode will end up in the all-time Top 10 GoT ep list (maybe even top 5).
One additional comment: yes, Danaerys was ticked off by some of her interactions, but she’s trying and trying hard to take account of the feelings of her allies / subjects. That’s not something we’d really seen until now, perhaps because they are more allies than subjects (in Mereen they were all pretty much subjects).
And I didn’t take Danaerys’ reaction to Jon’s bombshell announcement as a sign of selfishness. I took it as a sign that she’s always on the ball, while Jon was moping about this parentage and not understanding the DESTRUCTIVE power of this information he has just conveyed to Danaerys.
(And in a bit of a twist on 7:07, Dany paid Jon back by stating that perhaps his sources warrant some skepticism).
Damon Snow,
“I’m disappointed.” (Blackfish voice)
Yes, this is an astounding omission, one of many that infuriated me about the writing in S7.
On another note…
ALL OF THIS, OZ!!! I agree with your review 99%. The 1% is for Arya; unlike many people, I’m not remotely weirded out. Children grow up. Our discomfort with the idea that people we knew as children grow up—and go on to do grownup things—is a reflection of our weird Puritanism.
BevQB,
This would be heart-rending but appropriate.
Johnny Utah,
Didn’t Dany agree with Yara that the Iron Islands would be some kind of semi-autonomous state? Why not propose something like that to Sansa?
Not that any of this will matter once Visenya Baratheon is born in nine months.
Lighting one up for Big Bobby B and Honorable Ned FINALLY joining their houses.
Ten Bears,
Visenya is too Targaryen a name for a Stark/Baratheon child. It’d be like Lyarra or something lol
I wonder why when Bran is next to the tree, there are no tracks made by his wheelchair or by anyone pushing him. I really wonder whether the issue is just supposed to be foggy so we don’t get too caught up in accessibility issues and break the emotional flow of the episode, or could it be that Bran has magical powers of transporting?
This episode was so perfectly done, it was enormously sweet and satisfying – I loved how naturally the group by the hearth grew from two to six (I think). I love how the show has grown from a teenage boy’s sex fantasy to a full-fledged adulthood. I almost am ready to believe that the showrunners are acquainted with, and respectful, of real women in real life.
What will happen in the crypt? What will become of Ghost? Where are the other rangers and wildlings? I am so worried about everyone! I love them all so much!
Ten Bears,
10B!
I’m coming to you next time my kid has a question about Quantum Thermodynamics!
Oh, and my .02 on Arya. What if in the trailer she is bloodied and running from Fish-stick Gendry???!? 😱
The episode’s biggest letdown was the cameraman not granting us a single nipple or only even the full cheeks of Arya – not to mention her oyster, clam and cockle!
Whose fault was that, Maisie’s management’s?
All through the episode we’ve been watching her walking around like a bitch in heat, smacking sounds coming from her soaked pants with every step, on this night before the battle – the hound was already getting ready to mount her, and he would have popped that cherry, had it not been for Beric Cockblocking Cunt Dondarrian.
So instead, Gendry’s hammer it was.
Upgrayedd,
Wow. You should get that looked at.
No, Oz, you’re definitely not judging Dany too hard. Your observations are absolutely to the point.
Since her arrival in Winterfell it has become more than clear that her leadership style is crap. It’s obvious by the way her leadership style has intentionally been contrasted with that of the other leaders present, namely Jon and Sansa, who both practice a more cooperative and team-oriented leadership style based on respect for their advisors, their bannermen and their people (if they could manage to communicate better with each other in the future, House Stark would be even stronger). In contrast, Daenerys publicly rebukes her advisors and potential allies, patronizes them publicly, and demands submission into her service. These two episodes have also highlighted where Dany’s true priorities lie. Her reaction to Jon’s parentage confession says it all: Her main focus is – and always has been – the Iron Throne. I don’t think a person who is so fixated on this symbol of power will win the game of thrones in the end. In Dany’s case, the writers do not hold back from showing that her character is not fit to make a good ruler. But I digress…
Bottom line: Dany seems more isolated than ever in Winterfell. Her white costume and lack of meaningful dialogue in the the war council scene (other than again reducing Tyrion to an asset to her throne campain) visually and literally show how far removed she is from all the other characters gathered there.
Upgrayedd,
Yikes.
Worfwworfington,
Dany has whole nations that love her on Essos. Some of them even crossed the sea and went to the wastelands of the North for her.
Would anyone cross the sea for Sansa. I doubt it.
Dany haters will continue to eat their words.
I’ll spark one up with ya!
Johnny Utah,
Daenerys could’ve told Sansa what she told Jon in S7 E3 – A Targaryen sat on the Iron Throne and a Stark was the Walden of the North for centuries? of peace and prosperity after Thoren Stark bent the knee to Aegon Targaryen.
“Sample #4-#6: Dany now REALLY not happy. Upon learning that her brother was not a rapist, and was married, and had a son before he died, and that she has a family member who is alive and well and standing in front of her, Dany automatically doubts the validity and is worried about how this threatens her claim to the throne.”
This analysis can’t be right, either from an emotional or a character perspective. Of course Dany immediately doubts the validity of the words as told to her, even from the person she trusts most. Just as Jon did. Not only that, Dany states logical reasons for so doubting. Even without those reasons, any normal person would immediately doubt the validity of such an astounding revelation. Jon Snow did the same – his knee jerk reaction was to say there is no way his father could have lied to him about this. That is the expected human reaction to such world upending news.
And of course, for her character as portrayed since season 1, her immediate thought would be about how this impacts her claim to the throne. The supposed illegitimacy of Dany’s claim to throne is all anyone on this site can talk about, why would it be different for the characters themselves. Indeed, again, Jon’s reaction mirror’s Dany’s in that his first thought is to think of her claim to the throne when he says “that’s treason” to Sam. It takes him some more time to process the news fully and to connect emotionally with the truth about his mother. By the same token, Dany’s reaction is the expected emotional reaction to that news, not to suddenly become overcome by filial emotions for people she never even knew.
Dany’s quest for the throne, second to the NK threat, is the defining narrative of Westeros. And if one thinks this is the inappropriate time to be reflecting on her claim to the Iron Throne, perhaps it should be remembered that it was not Dany raising this inevitable source of tension and distraction while the Westerosi stand at the precipice of the most dangerous event in their history.
I have been thinking about this since last season when she got all nutty about everyone bending the knee. Either something shifted in the excitement of landing in Westeros or she had no choice but to give Yara what she wanted b/c Yara had the ships that Dany needed. I’d like to think that was sincere, but maybe she wasn’t. Either way, she stopped talking about breaking the wheel as soon as she touched down on Dragonstone.
I’m super disappointed about how she’s changed in Seasons 7 & 8. I really liked her journey and felt like she’d earned everything that she gained until now.
Hopefully Tyrion lives to remind her what she said way back in Meereen. Assuming she lives. I’m not sure she’ll make it through Ep 3 anymore. She doesn’t look like she listened to anyone that told her to get some armor.
Summer,
Yes, lately I’ve been thinking about Daenerys’s journey through the seasons. I remember all the debates about her time in the Slavers’ Bay, whether she learned anything there, and if so, what lessons those where. There were quite a few complaints about how she showed poor leadership qualities, how she was always quick to solve every problem with dragonfire, that she left the Bay in a bad state, and so on.
Now I am beginning to wonder if there is something more to this… I am reminded of Robert Baratheon and how he never accepted one simple truth: that winning and ruling are two different things. Could it be that Dany is headed down a similar path? After all is said and done, in the vein of so many historical figures maybe Daenerys just isn’t capable of rising above being a Conqueror. Now, I don’t believe GRRM or D&D will simply rehash Robert’s character arc for a second time, but from everything we’ve seen thus far — the way she treats her advisors and subjects, not to mention her rulership record in Essos — I don’t think her narrative will end in a place that Dany’s fans will find appealing.
Actually you’re right. My first “fake name” was going to be Eddard Baratheon. I chose “Visenya” because I love Arya’s S2 scene with Tywin so much that I’ve watched it countless times, and especially enjoy the way Maisie Williams projects awe and admiration when she says: “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian Steel sword she called Dark Sister.”
Disclaimer(s): I’m steadfastly Anti-Baby Drama. Nevertheless…
It’d be a neat twist if the supposed Dany-Jon and Cersei-Jaime dueling pregnancies turn out to be misdirections, and the real Zygote Who Was Promised was just created by the union of Arya Stark and Gendry Waters aka Gendry Baratheon.*
* I figure it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to come up with a viable, in-universe justification for Queen Daenerys – or King Aegon – to legitimize Gendry as a Baratheon. F*ck, while they’re at it they may as well have Jaime or Jorah anoint him as a Knight – if he makes it out alive. Didn’t Ser Bronn of the Blackwater get knighted for firing a flaming arrow at an empty boat? Didn’t Lancel get knighted for… for something – or just for servicing Cersei? A blacksmith who created thousands of anti-WW weapons should get equal consideration, especially if he winds up fighting in the battle(s) to come.
Johnny Utah,
Because she probably would have had a hard time selling “breaking the weel” to Sansa, the current de facto leader of House Stark. According to Daenerys House Stark is but a spoke of the wheel, she intends to break. Because that’s what it is to her, isn’t it? Crushing the great houses? Because subjugating them would be “stopping the weel”…. Can anyone elaborate, what her game plan for Westeros is after she sits on the throne?
I will say this for Dany: They finally articulated what was her biggest selling point.
“I didn’t need to be here. I could have gone straight to King’s Landing and Cersei wouldn’t have been ready for me. I’d be on the Iron Throne right now.
But Jon convinced me. I lost a dragon fighting for him. I don’t need to be here.
Summer,
“I don’t think a person who is so fixated on this symbol of power will win the game of thrones in the end.”
Why not? That has been the defining attribute of most of the other occupants of the Iron Throne.
“In Dany’s case, the writers do not hold back from showing that her character is not fit to make a good ruler. But I digress…”
Well, that’s your interpretation of it, but pretty much everyone who has held a Crown on the show has been subject to narrative critique of their leadership style. Jon himself was not immune, and as King in the North was subject to much open rebuke from his vassals for his decisions in both S7 and S8; many of whom appeared ready to abandon him and hand the crown to Sansa. He of course also alienated many of the NW, and died for that. That leadership profile does not bode well if you add in 6 further kingdoms. Not to mention Jon’s history as a reluctant leader. I’d also note that history teaches us that after times of extreme turmoil, sometimes wilful rulers are necessary and are better for it – take Vespasian in ancient Rome or Henry VIII in England.
“Dany seems more isolated than ever in Winterfell. Her white costume and lack of meaningful dialogue in the the war council scene (other than again reducing Tyrion to an asset to her throne campain) visually and literally show how far removed she is from all the other characters gathered there.”
Travelling north would always be an isolating and thankless act for her. That was ventilated backed in Season 7. Yet, Dany is the one who has come to completely foreign lands with the most to lose (her dragons and as Jon keeps saying the most powerful force in the world) and who is prepared to die for the Northerners. That seems to be somewhat at odds with much of your analysis and the narrative attempted to be created by the “Dany is a despot in waiting” crew.
We will see how the narrative unfolds in the coming episodes, but it would be wise not to pre-judge Dany as many are doing. The irrevocable decisions she has made to date have been for the good (committing to helping the North and Jon) – she has yet to make the decisions which will define her.
Ten Bears,
Oh definitely, I agree on the knighting (proper term?) of Gendry. And him forging literally all of the weapons they need to defeat the NK and WW should justify giving him the Baratheon name. A maybe a castle lol.
And I do like the misdirection theory. That would certainly throw us all the way off! Nice twist.
No, you’re not being too rough on Dany. She’s in a tough spot, though. I’m a little worried for her now in Ep 3. I’m wondering if knowing that there’s someone with a better claim will make her more reckless in this battle. Either way, she’s about to win a lot of people over once they see what she can do with Drogon.
I hated Ep 1 and last night was a gigantic improvement. It’s too bad that they didn’t put last night’s touch into Ep 1 and stretch the episode length a little. They could have added 5 minutes to Yara’s rescue and given Arya more time with Gendry and the Hound (it would have been nice to see where his head’s at being in Winterfell and knowing what’s coming. It would have been nice to see him give a little speech about what they’re about to face, in his own blunt way.) Episode 2 was spectacular, though, and the Brienne/Jaime scene joins my top 3 scenes (after Mountain v. Viper and Tyrion visiting the dragons).
Ten Bears,
Don’t forget, Bronn also saved the Hound’s life during that battle. I think it was with an arrow? He did fire the arrow but he was in the thick of the melee too. He did a lot of damage for the Lannisters in that fight.
I’ve read all the comments thus far and find myself nodding in agreement with many of the points raised. No Oz, I don’t think you were too hard on Dany.
I find myself rather conflicted over her right now. I’ve always been impatient for her to get to Westeros and fight on the side of right but now I’m struggling with what I can only describe as her sense of entitlement. I suppose, understandably, she’s had her core belief shaken. She has always believed that she is the true heir and suddenly she finds out she is not, so her first instinct is to question the validity of Jon’s identity. Who can blame her?
However, she is coming across as a character who wants things “her way or no way” to a great extent. She loves Jon but does she love him enough? Will her quest for power and supremacy be her undoing?
I’ve never really believed she will sit The IT in the end….the vision showed her reaching for the throne but not touching it and it was covered in snow, the implication being it belongs to Jon Snow, not her.
I also question whether Jon loves her enough. His reaction to her receiving his news in the crypt suggested he was seeing a side of her he didn’t much like.
Doomed relationship I suspect. Although I wish it were not so. One thing is for sure, she is pretty much a fish out of water in the North.
HODOR IS COMING….
Mr Fixit,
I completely agree with your assessment. There are three quotes that stood out for me during the last two seasons:
Season 6, Episode 6: Blood of my Blood
Daario to Daenerys: “You were not made to sit in an iron chair”
“What am I made for?”
“You are a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn”
[Followed by a rousing speech to take the Seven Kingdoms]
Season 7, Episode 2: Stormborn
Olenna to Daenerys: “The lords of Westeros are sheep. Are you sheep? No you are a dragon. Be a dragon.”
And an episode later…
Daenerys to Jon: “We all enjoy what we’re good at.”
[Folllowed by her decision to stop listening to her advisors and unleash her inner dragon]
The scenes stress that she is a conqueror, the Dragon’s daughter, the last Targaryen. She now fully embraces her brother’s ambition and her house words. With her actions during and after the Loot Tran attack the writers wanted to show the destructive power she has with her dragons. The Starks in contrast are portrayed more as rebuilders, with a solid vision for the future: Northern independence. Jon and Sansa are often bickering but in the end they treat each other as peers, respect each other’s different options, and trust in their family ties and shared values.
Sadly life never gave Daenerys the opportunity to develop a relationship like that with a family member or a friend. Her family is gone and she never had any friends. All the people in her life are there to serve her. She stands alone. This is rather tragic. What is concerning though is that her discussion with Tyrion about succession by in Season 7 Episode 6 seemed to highlight that apparently nobody is really sure about her plans for Westeros after she takes the throne nor does she want to talk about them. What does “breaking the wheel” actually mean? Is it a concept? Or more of an empty phrase? What are the conqueror’s plans after conquering the Iron Throne? What is her vision? After that fireplace scene I had the feeling that Tyrion and Dany might have entirely different views about it, especially what “breaking the wheel” will mean for the ruling houses.
Bronn was everywhere in that Blackwater battle. He helped prepare the city for the siege including clearing up the thieves. Then I think in the battle he stayed outside the citywalls (or some place risky) to get the range to fire the arrow into the floating boat to fuel. Then he fought as well.
Knighting Gendry? That would cheapen what Jaime just did for the Brienne.
Of course, he is a popular character so who knows.
Very nice review of the episode.
1. Over the last week, there have been a number of posts wishing that Jaime had a ritual humiliation at WF at this “trial”. I must say it turned out about as I expected it would. Jaime would not grovel or apologise. He would not bend the knee. He would be as tactical as needed, be as responsive and truthful. Be able to count on his relationships in the room to help him get past the angry response to the terrible news he had to report.
2. I liked the interaction between Jaime and Bran. Bran had a bit of bite. However it was not made clear why Bran thought a one-handed warrior would be important to the fight.
3. I expected/hoped for the knighting but was still surprised when it was actually happening. I have had exchanges on this site on the Brienne’s knighting before, however, it was more moving than expected. Did they make her extra tall for this scene. Jaime looked like he was just up to her belly button.
4. NCW and Tyrion are so good together. Episodes with the lots of the Lannister kids are always more enjoyable as they manage to sell it even if there is any dodgy writing.
5. I thought I would not like any sex scene with Arya. But some how it made sense. I like that it was a bit clumsy given the first time vibe. I also note this sex scene also had kissing and disrobing and talking at the beginning – very different from the boat sex scene.
6. The review is fair to Daenerys. This is the same Daenerys that has existed in the series since she acquired power. Ambition and the means to realise them. Emilia did some decent work, I grant that.
I have a concern. The battle is at night….I’ve watched the preview for episode 3 numerous times and can barely see any of what is happening. Yes I will watch on a big screen with the lights out but it’s frustrating when you miss a lot because you can’t see what the hell they’ve spent a fortune creating.
Why not have the battle in daylight?
I couldn’t agree more. Also in the first scene, Dany got advice from her hand and publicly rebuked him, and then Sansa got advice and listened because she trusts the person completely. I thought Dany was jealous there: she doesn’t trust anyone like that.
Summer,
That is harsh judgement. Her style of leadership is crap only if you look at the surface in my opinion. There’s a huge difference from the way she sounds like and she first reacts to what the actual resolution she takes to every problem she’s faced with.
I put in italics the surface/ superficial issues you point out in her leadership style. You may think it’s terrible that she does react so in public but so did Sansa when she “undermined” or “questioned” Jon.
I would like to go back to why I think you’re wrong about her leadership style when it comes to in depth scrutiny. Most of the times there was a resolution to her ruling problems that was made in group: from how to run Meereen and how to take Casterly Rock to how to not burn King’s Landing to the ground or how to forgive Jaime, or lately to how NOT to fire Tyrion!
Sure, some were taken against the counsel, but a counsel was listened to anyway (burning the Tarlys was a super bad decision but she did listen to Tyrion, tried for halfway and then decided that’s NOT how she wanted to go; also flying Beyond the Wall which wasn’t THAT bad of a decision after all)
You say that Jon’s style is different but in truth it’s not that different. His whole ruling experience amounted to two decisions he unilaterally made: to let the Wildings in and bend the knee to Dany, and both were without consulting his peeps. Same with Sansa when she brought the Vale. She didn’t ask or consult anyone either.
I’m far from supporting Dany over Jon or Jon over Dany. I am just here for the ride, but I think there’s a problem with calling crap her style simply because she doesn’t sound humble enough, like Ned or Jon.
No, you aren’t too hard on Dany. She has been absolutely ruthless when handing out pain and punishment to anyone who stands in her way, and she has hundreds, maybe thousands, of victims. If she didn’t burn them alive, she had them crucified, no remorse.
She doesn’t believe in quick deaths. From MMD in Drogo’s pyre, to Doreah and XXD locked in a vault to die a slow death to roasting the Tarlys alive, girl don’t care.
She’s a lone wolf and won’t survive because she won’t join the Stark pack.
Mango,
That both Jaime (Widow’s Wail) and Brienne (Oathkeeper) will be wielding the sword made from the Stark ancestral sword Ice – and have confirmed they will be fighting at each other’s side – is obvs huge to the story.
I watch on a Samsung screen and the blacks are way too dark even with the brightness turned up. I’m going to try and watch 803 on a different screen.
So, the best battle plan they could come up with was, let’s trap the NK in the weirwood area and hope that dragon fire kills him?
Yea, good luck with that.
That is almost confirmation that dragon fire won’t kill the Night King. Awesome episode though.
Thanks for the recap. I felt it was a strong episode, and did what it was designed to do: heighten the fear I had for each of the characters as they go into the epic battle. I did find the Sam explanation of why the Night King is going after bran a bit clunky but Bradley did well. And although I understand the discomfort with the Arya/Gendry scene given the continued vision of Arya as an 11 year old, it made sense to me given the circumstances and was reasonably tastefully done, although I think they could have been a bit more discrete about the whole thing.
Dyanna,
I agree with most of what you say. I think the Daenerys dimension of season 8 is filled with her uncertainties of her place in the North compared to her own experience as queen in season 7 and before. Her effort to charm Sansa was going well until Sansa stood up for the North, and I too am wondering now what Daenerys meant by “breaking the wheel” in previous seasons. If it meant something more benign than an absolute monarchy it was a natural talking point to use with Jon in season 7 and now Sansa in season 8. I was also wondering (as others have) about why she wouldn’t at least dangle a deal for autonomy with the North as she did with the Greyjoys, but perhaps as others have said perhaps she needed them more at that moment in season 6 than she needs the North now.
Finally, I am withholding judgment on these matters and on her response to learning the news about Jon’s heritage until after episodes 3 and perhaps 4. After hearing such a shocker, perhaps she is shielding herself from the relationship part of it by immediately jumping to the political aspects, just as Jon first focused on the fact that Ned Stark had lied to him during his entire youth, as opposed to the current dimensions. In any case, it is a well used trope that being in actual grave danger can change many perspectives, so I am expecting all of this to play out across a yet different tableau in the weeks to come.
Even if it will be tragic, I can’t wait!
Something must be up because they know NK has Viserion, so why would they want to lure him out in the open where he could torch Bran from the sky? Maybe Bran plans on warging Viserion?
Neither does the Hound.
“All over in an instant. Where’s the punishment in that?”
Dyanna,
I wondered the same, and realized we have no future teasers that show daylight. Does something happen that causes another Long Night to descend? Lots of speculation there, especially since Bran told us he is the keeper of memories and this is why the NK is targeting him.
But maybe the darkness, from a production design standpoint, makes the dragon fire more spectactular? Similar to how the BoB was filmed at night to show off the wildfire. Additionally we will have dueling dragons with different colored fire?
We had a daylight wight battle at Hardhome, I suspect a night battle lends itself to more dramatic visuals.
😭😭
Jack Bauer 24,
I’m guessing that Dany’s role in this battle plan will be the aerial support and hope that she can bring the NK down to the ground, either off Viserion or vulnerable enough to be attacked by those on the ground.
Mr Derp,
Well neither does Arya, but my response was about Oz asking if we were being too hard on Dany.
(but since you mentioned it… Cleganebowl is still possible).
Absolutely loved the episode!
And I loled so hard at the Countdown Clock “WinterHell begins in 6 days”
Jack Bauer 24,
Hope it works well for you 🙂
Jack Bauer 24,
I suppose we can be grateful that Bronn will be bringing a handheld scorpion to Winterfell?
He plans on warging the Night King. (Guessing.)
I brought it up because you used painful deaths as an example of why the show isn’t be too hard on Dany. She kills people painfully, so that’s why she’s bad. By that logic, the Hound and Arya should be treated poorly too, but I get what you are saying.
Btw, I agree that the Northerners should be weary of Dany right now, especially with the entitled way she is acting. She’s not doing herself any favors at all. However, I also think there’s a lot of good in Dany that we haven’t seen yet in the first 2 episodes. The show is kind of sidestepping her good traits to build up the tension. I hope the Northerners get a bit more of a balanced view of Dany soon.
it just seems like some people are chomping at the bit to call Dany out for killing people painfully, but no one is going to call out the many others in this show that have killed people in painful ways.
her Hand killed a bunch of people with wildfire, but no one cares about that.
Cersei killed a bunch of people in a wildfire explosion, yet everyone in KL seems fine with her being Queen.
Sandor enjoys killing with pain, and everyone seems to love every second of it.
Arya killed Meryn Trant in the most painful way possible. I will admit that some people were wary of this, but others it was simply YASSSSSS, you go girl!
That may be it!! Thanks!
Dyanna,
My thoughts also. Throughout the seasons many of the night scenes have been so dark its been difficult to see whats going on – and that’s also sitting in a darkened TV room. The one last week when Tormund and Beric entered Last Hearth being a good example. For some 2 minutes or so I just had a black screen! Wasn’t until they encountered Edd with his flaming torch when I could see anything .
Its probably my old 38″ LCD TV which is well past its sell by date, but even so, when filming these nights scenes, the set illumination could be a bit higher?
Upgrayedd,
Ewwwww Dude! Back on your meds, please? Thanks so much.
GeekFurious,
Man, there’s no accounting for taste. Season 6 was probably the strongest season imo.
David A,
I can’t wait either! The show runners have said Jon is focussed on the fact he’s in love with his aunt, something that hasn’t fazed Dany it seems. Where is Maester Aemon when you need him?!
I think the secret to winning this battle is something Tyrion comes up with in his late night conversation with Bran. Bran does not yet know how to wield his power or fully understand his visions and Tyrion is due for a win.
Everyone rattling off battle experience made me realize Brienne has never actually experienced a full battle and is essentially a key general for battle of WF. She may really make a tactical error, and/or need Jamie to bail her out
Black Raven,
I’m luckier in the sense I have a pretty up to date TV, but I so often end up relying on analysis I can read online in order to fully appreciate what’s taken place. It’s a shame but not much can be done now. Part of me doesn’t want to see lots of characters killed off next week, so maybe it’s a blessing in that sense lol
Upgrayedd,
Please seek help, that was disgusting. We have literally watched this kid grow up. SMH.
Upgrayedd,
I think you’re on the wrong forum. 🙄
ShameShameShame,
Yes it’s probably more dramatic in the dark although I’m wound up like a spring already and not sure how I’m going to handle watching it at all 😳
Hey, Oz. Last time, I didn’t agree with your review that much but I can tell you that this time, I agree with you very much on so many points. I especially love your observations about Dany and no, I don’t think you’re too harsh, only pointing out legitimate concerns about her future. I’m actually glad the writers went into this grey direction with Dany as my biggest concern for this final season was that both Jon and Dany would be “too good” with no focus on their weaknesses and flaws. I’m really happy the writers used these two episodes to add some tension to whole thing.
Overall, I loved this episode and I feel I’ll enjoy the next one even more. Now I need to seriously think how to write my own review (on my designated forum thread).
Mr Derp,
Oh I get it, no worries, the show is obviously full of cruel and mindless killing.
The difference with Dany is that she used her ruthlessness outright to reach the Iron Throne, and she has a pattern of behavior that should make us worry about her dracarysing Winterfell out of spite, especially since they did not “Mhysa” her with open arms, and they will obviously stand behind Jon for the throne.
Setting aside the other characters who are not throne-obsessed and murdering for that purpose, this leaves Cersei. And what has the green hellfire murder of all her enemies brought her? She has nothing but fantasies of more revenge, and a suspicious fetus – which may not even be her own, if we can logically assume Euron isn’t blind.
I know we’re talking about Dany possibly dying/being sacrificed during the upcoming battle, but Qyburn’s line about Cersei having plans for Dany made me think about Myranda saying Ramsay had plans for Sansa’s parts. Which of course ties into Cersei’s “pregnancy” which I believe is actually the result of Qyburn experimenting with Septa Unella and the Mountain, to try to great “great big monster babies who would conquer the world” as Tormund foreshadowed. There is obviously not enough showtime left to pursue this route, but… yeah. Dany still has to fulfill a prophecy, doesn’t she?
John No,
We do have Bronn bringing the handheld scorpion to Winterfell. Great irony that it was designed by Joffrey but could be used… by Tyrion?… to bring down either Viserion or the NK. That would cast quite a shadow. Tyrion is the only person other than Bronn who knows how to use it.
Surely the show writers didn’t re-introduce it as a Chekhov’s crossbow? And surely the fate of Jaime and/or Tyrion isn’t just a cheap shot from Bronn?
ShameShameShame,
Season 7 episode 7:
“All it takes is one angry man with a crossbow. He’ll see your silver hair on the kingsroad and know that one well-placed bolt will make him a hero. The man who killed the conqueror.”
The camera then cuts to Tyrion.
Black Raven,
Hmm, I’d say something is wrong with the settings on your tv. Yes the scenes are dark, but they shouldn’t be pitch black. You should still be able to see what’s happening. I have an oled now but even on my old lcd I never had a problem. I am not an expert, but I suggest going to these forums. There are experts there that can maybe help you out. 🙂
https://www.avforums.com/categories/tv-forums.297/
Mr Derp,
I figured that was foreshadowing Bronn killing Dany. Because that was Jorah’s quote to her right? IDK where Tyrion fits into that.
Raenarys,
It was in reference to a reply to ShameShameShame stating that Tyrion is the only other person besides Bronn that knows how to use the crossbow. It made me think back to that conversation in season 7 about Dany being killed by someone using a crossbow. The camera specifically pans to Tyrion as Jorah says the line.
Could be Bronn, but I’d find it anti-climactic if Bronn is the one to take out Dany.
Besides, Qyburn told Bronn that he has “other plans” for Dany. I don’t know exactly what that means, but it sounds to me like Bronn isn’t going to be targeting Dany. Especially since he’s not getting paid for that.
Mr Derp,
Ah yes, in that case I agree. I don’t see Bronn killing Dany. Or Jamie or Tyrion for that matter. Paid or not, I can’t imagine him killing either one of the brothers.
BevQB,
Love that sniff
Valar Ozghulis.
Raenarys,
I agree, I think the function of Bronn is just to get the weapon to the North, within range of the logical targets – Dany, a dragon, or the NK.
I have to agree that Dany’s leadership style is increasingly problematic.
She bulldozed her way through Essos. The Dothraki follow strength: so she was strong. The slavers were dishonest scum who were not worth bargaining with: so she didn’t bargain with them. Her attempts at diplomacy in Meereen met with failure, with military strength again being the only solution.
In Westeros, she allowed Tyrion to lead and attempted a slightly softer approach than she would have otherwise picked. Tyrion’s strategy was a failure too.
Dany’s claims about “breaking the wheel” appear to be long gone. Her diplomatic skills are zero and it shows. She is not the sort of person who could persuade the Tarlys to her cause, nor can she even make the most token gesture of “I’m open to ideas” with Sansa. She should have arrived in Winterfell as a saviour; instead by insisting Jon bend the knee, she’s damaged the fragile unity of the North and they all know it.
I’m pretty sure Dany isn’t going to be queen of Westeros. For one thing, it doesn’t look like Westeros needs or wants her. She’s not a peacetime queen. Indeed, I think she’d end up as fat and miserable as Robert did.
I have a variation on this take…the part I agree with is being “on the ball”. I hesitate to comment before rewatching, but…the way Jon presented this information suggested that he was thinking of the throne implications- which he was, as we know from his convo with Sam. He could have told her from a “personal” perspective (“who is that?” “it’s my mother…”). Instead he gave her a formal, 3rd person explanation of how Rhaegar had a legitimate child who lived (why make an immediate point of the marriage, if not clarifying your right to the throne?).
That leads her right down a path of thinking about the IT, not thinking first about their personal relationship. I understand why he presented it that way…rather than stating the punchline and backing up to explain, he laid out the events to lead there. And I’m not saying that she wouldn’t have reacted about the throne first anyway; maybe she would have, even if he had presented this as more of a personal than political revelation. But GOT is all about power; inheritance of titles is fundamental to the culture and to people’s sense of identity. To NOT immediately see the implications, to not question someone’s motives and raise your guard, is a “stupid mistake”. It’s something Jon would do…and the reason everyone labels him a dunce. It would be like s2 Sansa reacting to the proposal to marry Loras like there are still fairy tales, not recognizing the undertone of power play because of her claim to the north.
I love Jon for being selfless, not being so interested in power, and I think he would be a better overall ruler.
So Dany wants power, she wants the throne. Badly. Duh, nothing knew. Given that, would she not be a sappy fool (in this world) to not interpret Jon’s revelation, the way it was laid out, as a challenge? and it is, because he and Sam have already discussed it!
Further, Jon was avoiding her because two things made him uncomfortable- his claim to the throne, and romantic relationship with a relative. The second would not be obvious to Dany, as she grew up knowing that was “natural” for Targaryens. NBD. So what she sees is…he is conflicted about bending the knee because he is the rightful king. She sees that the throne is in play, but does not recognize (at least not immediately) the issue of incest. She had also just come from a discussion of being manipulated by love…so naturally she would be wary of playing the fool for love, willing to give it all up for him and his claim (which is different than giving it up for the good of the realm). Would that not be viewed as weak, if she were a man? Would it not be a disservice to her people, to fail to protect her rule? Seems someone else made that mistake recently…
Unfortunately she is also not stepping back to respect the shock to the man she loves from learning his full identity, but neither did his best buddy Sam before jumping to the throne conversation. Neither is supporting him personally before seizing on the political ramifications…which reminds me of Cersei’s comments about Tywin and Margaery with Tommen -that they will sink their claws in and “tear him apart”.
I guess what I am saying is, Dany was just presented with an implicit, not subtle threat to everything she has fought for, and her response did not move the needle much for me on who she is or where she falls on the good-bad spectrum. She’s in the big game now, and would be foolish to forget it. The opposite, more personal response would have been more surprising. She’s no more a “villain” than she was before (although previews seem like she will be). I don’t get the people who try to push her into a single dimension – she wants power and can be ruthless but she also has always had advisors and sought their counsel, she DOES listen as we’ve seen time and again including this episode, she DOES inspire love and loyalty (hello Missandei, Jorah, Darrio, etc) , she does sometimes make concessions and show forgiveness.
(Jorah’s return to her was very like Theon’s return to Sansa)
I agree there are some red flags for her as ruler, and I am interested to see if they take her more down the villain path. She is very vulnerable right now and with everything she has been through, and a fiery nature, I would not rule out her taking Olenna’s advice.
Do people think of Aegon the C as a villain??
Mr Derp,
I was a little bemused by that. Don’t we know from the battle of the frozen lake, that the White Walkers are not deterred by dragonfire? They just walked right through it.
Well, I was also thinking that since they just anointed Brienne as a knight on the spur of the moment (which I liked), why not legitimize bastards? Plus, as Jaime (?) said, “f*ck tradition.” Now that extinction of all human life is a real, imminent possibility, it’d be an auspicious time to grant last wishes and remove the taint on innocent children of unwed parents.
More important, now that the real truth behind the Stark-Targaryen-Baratheon conflict is finally coming out, if humanity somehow prevails, an expedient way of reconciling the “squabbling” noble houses and putting an end to lingering enmities would be to start fresh with a new generation of those families, led by decent people who aren’t power-hungry, backstabbing snakes. (Similar to Jon’s decision to pursue rapprochement with House Karstark and House Umber through their new and younger leaders Alys Karstark and Ned Umber rather than punish them for the transgressions of their forebearers.)
“Breaking the wheel” is a cute concept in theory, but extinguishing noble houses is what led to the cycle of murder and betrayal plaguing the country for years. Implementing the “Jon Snow” Solution on a national level, i.e., reaffirming allegiances and foregoing retribution – would seem to be the better way to go. Simply “breaking the wheel” with no system to replace it is a recipe for anarchy. (Sort of like adopting the campaign slogan “repeal and replace” – with no replacement plan – makes people think they’re being treated like gullible idiots by duplicitous politicians).
It makes perfect sense for a wise potential monarch to legitimize Gendry Baratheon, recognize him as Lord of House Baratheon, and
establish mutually beneficial agreements, in order to facilitate a peaceful transition to a more equitable form of government – and avoid forcing the “common folk” to become embroiled in constantly “fighting someone else’s war.”
In any event, the de facto leader of House Baratheon would be someone with an infallible moral compass**: Arya Stark. Yeah, yeah, I know little Arya said “No. That’s not me” when her dad told her that someday she’d marry a high lord and rule his castle. But she’s already acknowledged she’s a different person now.
* Cersei “Baratheon” really has no viable claim to the throne or to House Baratheon through her bastard children, and her role in doing away with King Robert will presumably become public knowledge, disqualifying her even if she’s not strangled to death by Episode 6.
Also, f*ck House Glover – if there are any of them left. According to Tormund (?) in last night’s episode, whoever wasn’t already in WF is now a soldier in Team Zombie. Besides, who’d want a two-faced oathbreaking chickens*it selfish hypocrite like Robett Glover in a new world order?
** I think Jane Austen coined that term; at least I heard it in the movie “Mansfield Park.”
ShameShameShame,
So, we would have lots of dragonglass and three good shooters. Theon has always been shown to be a very good archer. Bronn seemed good at BoBl and not bad with the scorpion. And we were reminded twice in this épisode that Arya has kept improving since the pilot and the Brotherhood lessons at bows and throwing things. And she knows where the heart is, so I’d bet on Arya for the NK. Theon’s arc may be to save Bran, but the NK seems too big a deal. As for Bronn, well, no idea of what can get rid of a icedragon, apart from getting rid of its rider, maybe ? Anyway, if the Lannister bros get turned, he may actually kill them- or destroy them ? Unsure of the terminology 😉
I agree. Tyrion’s losing streak has to end, and why not in the Super Bowl of battles?
The Miami Dolphins are mired in perpetual mediocrity, yet still find a way to defeat the NE Patriots.
So why not a trick play designed by Tyrion to pull a stunning victory from the jaws of certain defeat with no time left on the clock?
Anyway, there had to be a good reason why Jorah counseled Dany to retain Tyrion as Hand. With Tyrion already in Dany’s doghouse, Jorah could just as easily have convinced her to fire Tyrion and appoint Jorah in his stead.
Also, you make a good point: Tyrion took the time to access the information in the Branotronic 3ER archives. He’s bound to find some esoteric tidbit of data that proves critical. I refuse to believe that this story will end with Tyrion going down in history as the Outplayed Idiot Behind the Casterly Rock Debacle; the Fool Who Trusted His Untrustworthy Sister; the Incompetent Imp Whose “Clever Plans” Cost His Queen her Tyrell, Dorne and Greyjoy Allies; and the Clueless Tactician Who Advised His Queen “Do Nothing.” When Her Special Ops Commandos Were in Peril.
Raenarys,
Love all the thoughts on the threads. I’m on a totally different thought path with Bronn
I think he will stay in King Landing and will end up killing Jamie with the crossbow. He’s never hidden who his character is nor had any compunction about killing anyone for the right price.
After the Loot Train battle he told Jamie “no one gets to kill you but me until I get that castle. “ Jamie has not followed through with that and he’s promised it several times.
Also when the camera panned to Tyrion after Jorah Mentioned one man with a crossbow I took that as referring back to Tyrion killing his father.
Controversial idea… Suppose Jon destroys the Iron Throne and all it represents to enable a new era to be ushered in.
Jack Bauer 24,
I think this episode was better lit, even in the dark scenes. I believe they used a chiaroscuro effect in the lighting, which contrasts light better. Almost like some of the Old Masters paintings. I watch on my iPad, and always turn up the brightness, to little avail.
Next week will be hell, on many levels.
Summer,
You know, a lot of the anti-Dany vibe she experienced upon arriving at WF could have been avoided had Jon simply waited to discuss with his people his intent to “bend the knee.”
Dany could have and would have been welcomed as an ally and potential savior; someone who put her own plans on hold in order to travel north to help Jon defend his people: a task he admitted was virtually impossible without her armies and dragons.
Instead, Dany was met by people who did not want a southern ruler, especially a Targaryen. And as Sansa pointed out, the Starks and their loyal vassals had just recently taken back WF and the North, and regained their independence, at great cost.
Because of Jon’s rash and unnecessary abdication, as well as his not quite truthful excuse that his people’s survival was more important than his crown, the (false) perception seemed to be that Dany had somehow extorted Jon or forced him to give up his crown and the North’s sovereignty; and that she was now their ruler because of her own preconditions for her assistance. So Jon comes off like a self-sacrificing martyr, and Dany comes off like the power-hungry Mad King’s Daughter.
(As I’ve mentioned before, Dany could’ve benefited from advance PR as the heroine of the Frozen Lake who’d rescued the King in the North and his comrades, but nobody seemed to publicize that narrative.)
So Dany showed up as an apparent invader who had forced the North to become subservient, instead of being greeted as someone who voluntarily agreed to help the Stark forces, with no strings attached, “in their hour of greatest need” (as Lyanna Mormont might’ve described it).
I am still not sure why Jon let this false narrative play out. Alternatively, I’m still not sure why he didn’t show up with Dany as an ally, and then announce he was going to bend the knee, despite his people’s objections. It’s as if Jon unfairly let Dany be seen as the bad guy, when in fact it was his own unilateral decision to relinquish the North and declare Dany their queen that created the problem.
Like every other character, Dany can be faulted for several decisions she’s made. But this time, she got a raw deal – all thanks to Jon Snow’s nondisclosures.
(Oh, and I’m sorry, but his declaration on the boat in S7e6 that he had faith that his people would accept her “once they see who you are” – even after Dany reminded him he’d previously said they wouldn’t accept a southern ruler – was inexcusable. Unless, of course, Maisie Williams was right and Jon Snow let his penis override his brain.)
Bryan Cogman is our King.
This episode continuously made me sad as I “ship” Jon + Dany SO very much. I hated seeing them so distant.. please allow them to rule together at the end! Even though I know it won’t happen..
At the end of Jamie’s trial. Dany has to relax after basically being outvoted 2-1 over whether or not to keep Jamie around. She looks directly at Jon for some consoling/advice, and he immediately walks off without as much as a head nod 🙁
Now she is waiting by the fire for her man. Jon will surely make her feel loved, while she’s surrounded by so many foreigners. (foreign to her) Who bursts in the door? Is it Jon? No. It’s Ser FriendZone, himself :/
Next, Dany tries to make a connection with Sansa. After all, she can’t seem to pin down Jon at the moment. Perhaps she can smell him on Sansa to curb her desires? Sansa is skeptical of Dany’s intentions, but Dany reveals “I’m here cause I love your brother, idiot” Sansa for a moment accepts Dany, but instantly changes her mind when she realizes Dany might not give her da norf :p
Finally Dany gets to be in the same room with her dreamy boyfriend. Unfortunately so does the rest of the cast.. Dany, too focused on Jon’s good looks, contributes nothing to the battle plans. But does find a chance to emasculate her hand in front of many respectable people again.
Jon ends the meeting. FINALLY Dany gets a chance to talk with the one she desires.. This time he at least has the courtesy to acknowledge the fact she has been piercing daggers at him. “Your grace..” AND THEN HE WALKS OFF AGAIN :((
Dany enters the crypts *I’ve finally found you >:)* *Please don’t ignore me anymore :(*
Dany looks longingly at Jon. Jon realizes he has no escape this time and nods her to come over. Dany grabs a hold of him to ensure his escape is futile.
And then, the bombshell. Jon is Dany’s nephew. So many emotions for the poor girl. The one man she truly, willingly, opened up her heart too is now, what? Her enemy/rival? Her lover/nephew? I think people need to lighten up on the way she took the news.
Ahhhhhh please don’t kill them off GoT creators/producers! I need to see the Targaryens sit together as King and Queen of Westeros!
I don’t think Jon is clarifying his right to the throne by pointing out Rhaegar and Lyanna married. He points out the marriage because Dany believes Rhaegar raped Lyanna – which is the “known” story in Westeros – when the real story is the opposite: “He loved her. They were married in secret.” I think that’s what prompts Jon to reveal their marriage, leading to the revelation of the truth in general.
At this point, Lyanna or Rheagar are figures from stories and memories to Jon. Just like he didn’t grow up with Dany as a slightly younger aunt, Jon didn’t grow up with Lyanna or Rhaegar as immediate family so they aren’t really Mum and Dad yet. The story is still so new to him. Still, he knows his identity is something else, he was born Aegon Targaryen which means he’s related by blood to the first love he’s found since Ygritte. Yet, when Jon reveals his true name to Dany, he’s not asserting any claims or titles, he’s not calling himself the heir or rightful king. But I think it’s understandable that’s where Dany’s focus is – Dany has been working to reclaim her family’s dynasty and working with her all for it.
I said in another thread, I think it’s really understandable for Dany to react the way she did – plus, this is Dany learning all this right now, at this current moment. Jay Targ says above, “She was hit where it hurts the most, like Jon, she’s basically lived a lie.” Absolutely! And like Jon, Dany questions this info that shifts her entire life and what she’s been working for. Both Jon and Dany built lives based on the same false information: Ned had to lie to save Jon and he would absolutely do it again to save the son of his sister – and I love Ned for that. Of course, this still results in two major characters living a lie – because Jon was concealed, neither Viserys or Daenerys knew they had another relative out there and believed they were the last of their line.
The Wolves of Winter,
Thanks for the info. As it happens I did manage to increase the brilliance on Sunday during the reshowing of Ep1 before Ep2 (on Sky Atlantic) and that scene when Tormund and Beric enter Last Hearth was a bit clearer and not so dark.
The problem is my TV (make Prima) is pretty old (10 years+) and the screen over time has developed vertical and horizontal lines a pixel wide over about a third of it! When a scene is dark these lines really stand out which doesn’t help either!
The bottom line being – I need to get a new TV 🙂
What else she did…isnt that exactly what she said ..
Well it’s not surprising that her disappointment with tyrion which is justified has been highlighted but at the same time her recognition of his strength in the war room is not given the same amount of space in your review..
It’s not that surprising your review doesn’t think it’s a problem that cersei is still sitting in IT .somehow it was never a problem..only when dany comes to IT it becomes a problem..
Don’t call her “Big B.”
Actually, I think many people are a little too harsh on Daenerys, but… based only on the revelation scene. Since, as pointed out several times above me, Jon had a similar reaction. It would be unreasonable to expect Daenerys to behave differently when her worldview is shaken.
BUT, (what seems like half) the posts above have also claimed Daenerys does make a pretty bad ruler and I agree. She made many attempts at ruling, the most colossal of which was the Meereen experiment. That started by quick collective punishment of Meereen “nobility”, discovering that Dragons be Dragons (torching whatever they feel like, really), chaining the innocent dragons, etc.
Most recently, Daenerys’ talk with Sansa once more shows her inaptitude to ruling other than conquering. She seems unable to build and hold a ruling structure of any kind.
Fact is though, Jon or Sansa don’t fare any better (I won’t even mention Cersei…).
Jon gets so hung up on technicalities he often takes the opposite of a practical decision while at the same time keeping himself distant from his subjects (Ned would do the same honorable/dutiful things, but he would explain them, show why they need to be done). Basically put, Jon needs a PR agent stat or risks being stabbed again, dethroned or simply ignored.
Sansa keeps openly attacking or at least doubting any current superiors (actually most people around her, see Season 7 Winterfell paranoia all around) which goes a long way towards sowing animosity where unity is needed.
Quite frankly, the Tyrrels were the only decent rulers in the whole of Westeros and they are gone. What reasonable people we have left were never actually rulers themselves though they may have kept things running smoothly: Davos, Tyrion and Varys. They might do well, but who would actually support their rule? Hell who would even elect them if Westeros discovered voting? They are not attractive candidates compared with pretty charismatic noblemen and noblewomen.
Well damn, I forgot to mention how great this episode was, though there could have been more nudity (before you jump on me I mean Gendry, totally mean Gendry… right, errr…)*.
Also YAY Ghost is alive!!!
Final though: As much as I was pissed at Sansa for screwing up her ruling duties, this time it was Daenerys’ and Aejon’s job to smooth things over (it wouldn’t be hard, really) and Daenerys fucked it up hard while Jon was too preoccupied with being a Targaryen and so did nothing. By the Gods these last two episodes were perfect examples of why all three are so unsuitabe to rule each in their own way.
*In all seriousness though, I’m pro equality here and that means nudity for all.
Adrianacandle,
I had not realized that Dany bought into the Rhaegar as rapist story. That never came up when Barristan was telling her about Rhaegar the sensitive musician who liked giving away money to charity, and didn’t like killing. I figured Dany would be puzzled by that kind of gentle soul being guilty of a forcible abduction and rape of a teenaged girl.
Well, I guess that wonky factoid was necessary to compel Jon to explain what really happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Also… Dany did make a good point: that this revisionist historical account is based on something Sam said he saw in a Septon’s diary (and Sam is definitely not a member of the Dragon Queen Fan Club); and on a “vision” of Jon’s spaced-out, weirwood Kool Aid guzzling brother.
If I were Dany, I’d be suspicious that those two fellows concocted the Aegon story to take Dany out of the succession loop and refute her claim to the North – and the rest of the Seven Kingdoms.
Where the f*ck is Howland Reed when you need him?
And incidentally – is Jon ever going to mention to Dany his close relationship with Aemon Targaryen? That might be an especially good idea, since Aemon renounced his claim to the throne in favor of his brother for the good of the Realm – which is what I believe Jon may consider doing.
Jon did seem reluctant to tell Dany about his parentage. Ned kept the secret a secret for good reasons – even Sam concurred that perpetuating the lie was a wise decision by Ned.
Jon never aspired to be King of the Seven Kingdoms. Dany has sought the Iron Throne for most of her adult life. There’s no reason he would want to take that away from her, unless she does something really whacky.
Why not just tell Sam and Bran to keep quiet? Let Jon remain Jon Snow – or have Dany legitimize him as Jon Stark. (He admitted to Sam that being Jon Stark was his lifelong dream when Stannis offered to legitimize him in S5, and only turned down Stannis because he felt honor-bound to keep his NW vows.)
That way, she keeps her boyfriend and her dream, and he gets to keep his girlfriend and keep Ned as his official dad. She doesn’t have to entertain the suspicion that Jon and his two “co-conspirators” are concocting a story as part of a plot to depose her. He doesn’t have to worry
that Notherners will cast him as fraud who exploited the Stark name in a Targaryen plot to take over the North. Along with his two sisters and brother, he keeps the Stark pack intact.
Any aunt-nephew weirdness would dissipate after a while*, and a marriage would formalize a Stark-Targaryen union: good PR and good politics.
Win-win solution all around.
Seriously, is there even one good reason to publicly reveal the identities of his biological parents?
My only questioning of the outstanding Ep2 is: why wasn’t Varys included in the fireside chat??? 😕
Ten Bears,
I fully agree with your assessment. Jon is definitely not very helpful, as one would expect from a true ally (or lover for that matter). If he really believed that she would make a good queen, then he is doing a bad job of selling this to his people or his family. That’s why it seems to me, that he really could’t care less. His only focus is the war against the dead. He is in lone wolf mode (and has been throughout season 7 since he was her de facto prisoner). And now Dany is here, at Winterfell, with her armies (although I don’t think he expected Sansa to give Daenerys such a frosty welcome). For Jon this is the most important thing: That Daenerys and her forces are at Winterfell and committed to “his” fight. He played his part well. Mission accomplished.
Yes it’s a TV drama, and arguably the crux of the story. You don’t bury it and there be no resulting fallout. It’s Chekhov’s gun.
Ten Bears,
You’re right that there are a lot of benefits to Jon keeping the secret of his parentage. It’s true that Jon has only wanted to be a Stark and per Kit Harington, Jon wishes he could go back in time and NOT know this. Just live life at Wnterfell with his sisters, his brother, with a nice queen for a gf, all that 😉
At the same time, he’s not the sole keeper of that knowledge and there are other people interested in that knowledge – like Sam, who has turned anti-Dany and Bran, who was very insistent Sam tell Jon right the hell now for Wierd Bran reasons. And is Howland Reed alive? Plus, Varys is around and he picks up secrets like velvet picks up cat hair. Anyway, Jon can ask Sam and Bran to keep this to themselves but there’s no guarantee they will. Plus, Bran has his own agenda and isn’t so concerned with human matters – like Jon keeping his gf and Ned as his official dad, as much as Jon would love that. Bran’s agenda may need that info to be public, who knows.
If Dany found out from anyone other than Jon and learned Jon was sitting on this secret for god knows how long, I think that’d look way way worse. That would certainly decimate the trust between them and if Dany’s suspicious of the info now, she might be might think Jon was in on it too, along with his best friend and weird little brother, which could feel like quite the betrayal and look even more suspicious.
Also, per Cogman, Jon’s not on board with the incest thing and has been obviously avoiding her for the entire episode because of that. Dany’s definitely noticed and is rightfully hurt by Jon’s avoidance. Maybe in modern times and if Dany wasn’t a queen, Jon could say, “It’s not you, it’s me. I got some personal stuff to work out. See you around!” But he can’t really break up with her that way in Westeros, not after he’s pledged himself and his kingdom to her, she’s let him ride her dragon, Davos & co. are thinking about a marital alliance (which could solve their problems if Jon can see himself over the incest thing!).
Jon may think Dany has a right to know this information that connects to her. While Jon has never showed any desire for the throne, his identity isn’t what he or Dany thought it was and given he’s in deep with Dany, she should probably have all the info – even if she’s fine with incest, she should know who he really is. He’s actually family! They’re blood related! It’s Targaryen tradition! Plus, it clears the name of Dany’s older brother 😉
Jon’s timing is definitely off – but if he waited until after the battle, would Dany feel he avoided telling her so she’d fight this war? Would she feel even more betrayed if he sat on this secret and found out from somebody else? If they do get a chance, Jon and Dany have the opportunity to hash this out between them before it can leak. And maybe Davos, Tyrion, and Sansa can help them with the PR of it all. Both Dany and Jon could use help with that.
But I do agree about Aemon – I hope he’s mentioned – and I agree Dany is right to question the legitimacy of the info. While Jon knows Sam and Bran, Dany doesn’t and this info coming from his brother and best friend does look convenient 😉
Ten Bears,
Why is Jon so bad at communicating important facts? He’s not stupid, why wouldn’t he have just said that one all important thing that would make his family (and the North hopefully) accept Dany? Is it because he’s ashamed to admit she had vowed to help them fight and then he handed over his kingdom anyways? Yes, I believe it is. Everyone knows Jon doesn’t want to be king, didn’t ask to be made LC or KITN. Maybe kneeling to Dany was his way of getting out of the title. But he can’t tell them that and keep his honor and their faith in him intact. My man Jon is not quite so pure and innocent I thought he was lol. Aye, he did Dany wrong here.
Someone above in the comments mentioned the possibility that the reason we haven’t seen any promo material past episode 3 could be because the Long Night falls and everything is shrouded in darkness. I’ve been thinking about it and it’s beginning to make sense… horrible sense.
In past episodes, the Night King tends to seem like he’s always one step ahead of Our Heroes (as it’s been speculated he has some form of greensight ability). It would make complete sense for him to be able to sniff out the plot to trap him in the Godswood, then. So let’s say that while the battle rages on outside, he manages to sneak into the Godswood – they’re probably all expecting him to fly in on Air Viserion, but maybe he gets in through the crypt tunnels or some other access route. He manages to kill Bran and implements the Long Night, then escapes and heads south towards King’s Landing for fresh recruits. Thus Dany and/or Jon will have to follow him with whatever is left of their forces.
This may also explain the scene where Tyrion has a long chat with Bran… of course Tyrion doesn’t have 3ER abilities but Bran may have told him something useful in the information dump that he can use to help defeat our frozen pal, since he’ll now be the only one with all that knowledge. It would also put Tyrion back on track as the Smartest Man Alive who uses his mind to defeat his enemies, after his recent string of planning failures.
I dunno, do we really think the show will spend the last 3 rather long episodes just going back to familial squabbles and the burning issue of who gets to sit on the ugly iron chair next? It just doesn’t feel right for the story, somehow.
Jay Targ,
YES THIS so much
I am late to post, but I am here.
What an amazing episode, this one is a top tenner for sure, but then again my top ten has 69 episodes in it 😉 haha
I think this was a perfect way for us to reconnect with all the characters before half of them die next week. 🙁
I know that’s what they are trying to do anyway….
We know all these characters but we really haven’t seen them interact that much together, so they tried to show us the connections between them and their fighting the same war. So now we really feel what they are feeling.
It made me so sad, I cried so much, and I know what’s coming and I am truly NOT ready for it. I did not expect a huge battle so soon. There is no way the humans are winning already? But what’s going to happen? I have no clue I cant even speculate.
I am on the side that disagrees with Oz and I think is a little harsh about Dany. I think her reactions are warranted, and as someone mentioned in this thread, her initial reactions are very different than what her actions end up being, usually 😉
Her whole life has been the iron throne and her claim, so the way she reacted to Sansa’s comment and to Jon’s reveal was expected and I would have been shocked if she reacted differently. I don’t want to repeat peoples comment’s but I agree with many who feel that way in this thread.
We shall see what happens.
I don’t want to see next week. Ugh.
ANiceChianti,
LOL. I knew you were still around. The pre-eminent lurker.
Second that.
Dont want to draw attention to ‘adult content’ in any way that would promote salaciousness, having seen the scene only once and I will not go back to it and I ask that you dont, either, for the purpose of fact-checking me because it is the Impression that the scene had on me, not the Impression that it had on you or anyone else that I am reporting here:
but my reaction was that Maisue/Arya was photoshopped and I consider it a wrong decision and disrespectful of both the Actor Maisie William’s and the Character Arya Stark. A really cheap shot. I base my opinion on a difference in skin consistency during that shot, the refocusing or ‘fuzzing out’ of detail and the overall appearance compared to the appearances of Ms. WIllams both on and off the set. Bottom line: she HAD to have ‘jugs’!??! Why? To give her an allure that could compete in this world of cast actresses who are chosen for just this reason? Phony and disrespectful.
+1
Tar,
Lena had a body double… so what? Yes I do think she was a bit edited but again, so what? They allowed Maisie to call the shots, so it was all her choice.
Weird flex.
ShameShameShame,
The “weird flex” took me out lol.
Calliander,
Can he warg into the NK? Since Bran has his mark, can he telepathically sneak up on him? Maybe Bran will ward into one of the Generals of the AoTD so he can get close to the NK and take him out/make him vulnerable for the good guys to attack.
I’m pretty sure Viserys would have killed (or at least tried to kill) Aejon if he knew he was the true heir to the IT, Targaryen or not.
Damon Snow,
100% agree one of the best characters in the entire series and not a mention, thinking Sam and Dany might bond while taking about him.
Peter Vaughan brilliant performance from him too stole every scene he was in.
rip
Dee Stark,
Fully agree!
Watched it again last night and it was even better! Definitely one of my faves. Just a great reminder why this show has become such a phenomenon, the characters! I’ve never been this invested in any tv-show ever.
Favourite scene was the one by the fire with Brienne being knighted. Probably the last time we see them this way being this way.
Oh, I’m dreading the last 4 episodes, they’re gonna be such an emotional rollercoaster. Also not ready for it.
Quick question, maybe somebody already asked it.
From the war planning session, I was under the impression that the plan was for Dany and Jon to be on the dragons providing air support. But from the next episode trailer we see Jon on the ground protecting Bran.
Do people think this means Rhaegal falls, or does Jon land him to provide a last chance to kill the NK? I lean to the later.
Black Raven,
You’re welcome!
And yes, you really need a new tv with those lines. I have somewhat of similar problem with subtitles in HDR. The subtitles are way to bright in dark scenes, where it’s like they turn into headlights and make the image appear darker than it actually is.
JSchmeh,
I had a horrible thought that Dany, if it seems like they’re on the losing side, she would flee with her “children.”
But maybe she comes back.
I was thinking the exact thing when I rewatched last night. Speaking to Sansa “I’m here fighting Jon’s war”…not here to protect mankind. If she has a fall out with Jon I can see her packing up and leaving to protect her dragons.
ShameShameShame,
Interesting theory. If Jon is not on Rhaegal, I could see it as a possibility.
Her line from the trailer about the dead being already there, is really interesting to me. Usually I can come up with a theory about lines like that from the trailers (most of the times it’s wrong), but I am having trouble with that one.
John No,
And she already knows she can head to the Iron Islands, that’s been set up.
I think the II will be in play regardless because of Arya’s line about heading west of the west, probably being like Nymeria leading the survivors of the doom across the sea/
JSchmeh,
I took it to mean that the dead were literally right outside, just as they were at then end of the epi?
ShameShameShame,
Damn it you are right. Jon is a threat, Jorah and Greyworm are on the front line and could go down early. Who else is worth fighting for in her mind? I’m also warming to the theory that the NK is heading to Kings Landing on his own. Danny takes off to take him down one on one, saves Kings Landing, then gets taken out by a scorpion. Would fit right in with beautiful pain this story inflicts.
John No,
I agree with the NK heading to KL to turn another million people for his army!
No, that wasn’t a body double, that was Maisie Williams. She didn’t have “to have ‘jugs!?!?!'” Maisie Williams just happens to have breasts that size. She was given the choice by D&D of how much nudity she would or would not show, and she made the choice to show that much. In the scene which was much more tasteful than most sex scenes on GOT, Arya took ownership of her womanhood and her sexuality in a healthy and loving way with someone that she trusted, someone that she wanted her first time to be with. And Maisie Williams — at 20 years old, fully a legal adult — was given complete control on how she wanted to film the scene.
For her it was about the character and showing her journey back to finding her humanity. It was beautifully shot, tastefully done and it was about the character. I am sorry that you seem to have a problem with the fact that Maisie Williams, a grown woman, has “jugs” that are bigger than you thought they were.
Nymeria was from the Rhoyne. She left Essos when the Valyrians conquered the Rhoyne, long before the Doom.
JenniferH,
I am going to believe you are right and I am wrong. It makes me feel significantly better about the show if you are right.
Where did you get your info?
John No,
So you don’t think Qyburn’s comment about Cersei having “plans for the Targaryen girl” will trump that? They have to be bigger than her being shot down, I would think. That’s not Cersei.
Raenarys,
The plans will probably be related to whatever Cersei had Ser Gregor practice on Septa Unella. Which also reminds me of Myranda telling Sansa that Ramsay had plans for her parts. Which also reminds me of Tormund opining about breeding monster babies.
All those Chekhov guns massing together at the same time?
JSchmeh,
I think it means Theon dies. 🙁
ShameShameShame,
Oh man, that would be a sight to see! Let’s hope it won’t come to that. *crosses fingers; grits teeth*
From this interview that Maisie Williams did with Entertainment Weekly that ran the day after the episode aired.
https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/21/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-gendry/
Whilst I recognise that AKotSK was a great episode and everyone has different opinions would you really view it as better than Winds of Winter? I just feel that episode is unlikely to ever be beaten.