Season 6 filming of Game of Thrones is rolling in Belfast, and cast members are filtering in and out of the city. For now, shooting is contained in Northern Ireland, but early next month we can expect Spain filming to begin, in Girona.
Before checking in with the latest sightings, there’s a new interview with two of the Sand Snakes, with Jessica Henwick discussing returning in season 6, Keisha Castle-Hughes talking about what drew her to Obara, and more.
Isaac Hempstead Wright and Kristan Nairn have been enjoying themselves out and about since being reunited in Belfast for season 6 filming.
@WatchersOTWall We sat next to Kristian and Isaac at dinner tonight in Belfast. Absolutely wonderful fellas! pic.twitter.com/kJfvo3Fuz4
script async src="//pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js">— Aideen McCormack (@Deenerbom) August 4, 2015
Peter Dinklage and Owen Teale have also been spotted in town, in separate sightings. Belfast is a flurry of activity with actors from different storylines- the studios must be packed.
***** PETER DINKLAGE ALERT****** @sarahgbelfast #belfast #homeofthrones Whoop!
— Debs (@DebsinBelfast) August 5, 2015
From our sources:Owen Teale and Isaac Wright seen around centre of Belfast today,Isaac noticeably older (5th Aug) #ForTheWatch #ReturnOfBran
— Irish Thrones (@IrishThrones) August 5, 2015
And of course…the man everyone is chasing, Kit Harington, is back in Belfast after his brief trip to Spain for Brimstone filming and looking puzzled about getting papped while buying frozen pizza. So there’s that– you can check out the pap pics at PopSugar. As for #HairWatch? His curls are tied back on top and loose at the bottom, a fairly typical hairstyle for a beer and pizza run when you really don’t want to be bothered. Sorry, Kit.
They probably should’ve planned out this storyline’s timing better, frankly, if they didn’t want people to be fascinated by the actor appearing all over Belfast during filming.
oh no… I wished we were done with sand snakes.
I think if he was only back for a funeral scene he wouldn’t be trying to hide from the press so much.
Good idea having Hodor grow the beard out!
People really should stop harassing Kit like that. All these people that are so concerned about Jon Snow’s fate have this warped sense of reality regarding the actors’ personal life. And this whole hairwatch thing has been coming across as a little stalker-ish. It’s TMZ level shit.
dragonreborn,
Hopefully they’ll only appear in two scenes. One in which they’re sent to King’s Landing and another in which they cut off their heads.
On a different note, I have a feeling that the Sand Snakes will be a lot better next season. The characters need to be split up so each one can be fleshed out a little more and put in different situations. I’m sure that D&D are well aware of all the SS hate from last season lol.
NEVER LEAVE KIT ALONE! STALK HIM ALL DAY LONG UNTIL… until… wait, why are we following him everywhere? It’s not like he is suddenly going to accidentally reveal anything.
Hopefully Kit got a big raise for having to put up with all the extra BS. LOL
GeekFurious,
Exactly.
will we get a 4th Sand Snake?
I feel sorry for Henwick and Castle-Hughes. As self-professed book fans they know how awesome their characters are in the books, yet they have to play their flat and cliche pornosupervillain versions and promote the show as if everything is peachy.
Maceless Fan,
It’s all fun and games really.
Celebrities are paparazzied all the time. Something I’m sure he is aware of lol
Ena of Oldstones,
Well, I wouldn’t call their book characters awesome. I mean, all they’ve done so far is ask Doran to kill innocent people.
biobi,
SARELLA, I hope so! No casting information about that, though, so I doubt it. Even though we “haven’t met her yet ahem ahem“, I think she’s [going to be] my favorite Sand Snake.
I posted this in the previous post’s comments: I saw Keisha Castle-Hughes and Jessica Henwick at Tampa Bay Comic Con this past weekend. They were very nice people, and their personalities definitely warmed me up to them a bit more. Carrie Fisher and Linda Hamilton were both there, though, so they drew most of the crowd; good part was that this made it easier to talk with the Keisha and Jessica. 🙂 A friend of mine mentioned to Jessica that she was disappointed that
, and she too, seemed very disappointed about it!
I am hoping that the writers have actively worked on improving their story. I want to like the characters… I’m just holding my breath and super, super nervous about Season 6 in general. I’ve given up on Dorne a bit (shame, because it’s my favorite place in the books), but hope that it’s fixed.
Ena of Oldstones,
Awesome characters in the books? We must have read different books. 🙁
biobi,
Do we need a 4th Sand Snake?
I was expecting Dorne and the people of Dorne (where were the people of Dorne?) to be exciting and sexy – so it did fall a bit flat for me. I have hopes for the future episodes.
I really dislike how people feel the need to trash the Sand Snakes like, in front of the people who play them. That’s just rude. I think there’s some weird hateful portion of the fandom who get off on being nasty and now see the opportunity to do so in public because they think everyone else is okay with it.
My attitude toward HairWatch is entirely a joke. I think that’s pretty obvious from the post- if you’re not getting it, I don’t know what else to say. But him being in Belfast yet again (with proof) is noteworthy.
First for bad pussy!
They need to split the sand snakes up if there is any hope for them. Nym to King’s Landing possibly, Tyene to Oldtown.
Oh good. I was really worried we wouldn’t get more Sand Snakes, and would have been super disappointed. Yes, that’s it.
Kit and Owen should just be seen together walking around with boxing gloves on or something. 😀
I think the Sand Snakes from the books are great, though I don’t know that they really do all that much- I generally consider them interesting, minor characters, though there are certainly indications that they have a larger role to play in the story yet to come.
At least the show versions have been good for comic relief… I laughed out loud when the blood started pouring from Myrcella’s nose, because it seemed like a perfect ridiculous ending to a laughably bad story.
The ladies that play the Sand Snakes seem smart, nice and professional. Hopefully they will get better material to work with this year. As for the stalking of Kit H, so over it. Give the guy a break – no more pics.
Sue the Fury,
Thankfully, the panel I went to was pretty good in this respect. No audience questions came off as disrespectful, and everyone in general seemed very excited to see them. Have people been trashing their characters to the actors in person?
Sue the Fury,
According to PopSugar, the photos are from last week. Either way, plenty of people have tweeted about meeting him or seeing him in Belfast the past few days.
Anyone who is a jerk in real life towards actors who play characters they dislike is just sad.
Of course Lady Nym should come back,she didn’t do anything the entire season 5.Wich is a shame,in the books she was the coolest of the sand snakes for me.Hope they send her to Kings Landing soon,that would be an improvement.
Sue the Fury,
I didn’t hear anyone being rude to the two actresses who were interviewed. I agree, that would be in bad form. However, to not have good feelings about last season is pretty much a given, it could and should have been done much better by the writers, directors and editors. I am hoping season 6 puts the attention to making their scenes just as worthy as the rest of the cast is given for their scenes. Book Dorne was a snooze-fest….in my opinion. I have found that the show has done better by many book portions, but then also the book did better than the show as well. It is a coin toss. For the Dorne part….it just didn’t work for me.
Actually in the above article…I want to squeeeeeeeeee much more for the Dinklage sighting!
And who is doing that? How many people? And where?
Deesensfan,
I know that this is common for celebrities but I guess I’m just trying to put myself in Kit’s shoes. Like what if he’s hungover or just had a huge fight with his girlfriend or something, and he goes to the store for a snack and someone just gets all up in his face with a camera? That sucks. And I’ve seen a lot of celebrity pics from tabloids where the angles are clearly taken from behind a some bushes or up in a tree and it’s really unsettling lol.
Tywin of the Hill,
JCDavis,
Well, like or dislike them, they were well fleshed-out, interesting and not nearly as stereotypical as the show versions. I call that awesome character writing.
so much hate, so little reason.
really dissapointed how people treat this, its as if that storyline (preaty poor i admit) is the anticrhist.
not suprised tough. when AFFC came out the reaction was much the same…
IRON ISLANDS SUCK MORE!!…NO DORNE SUCKS MORE!!!
i for one think they did what they could with what they had and what they themselves know of TWOW.
as GRRM himself said the SS have a role to play further in the story, so il wait and judge it then.
as for actors, i think they really did well
Keisha in my opinion IS obara, and Tyene, when she smiled at Bron dying i saw Oberyn. only Nym i don’t have an opinion as she had little screen time.
and when people say that the SS where not as cruel in the books,was it not Nym who wanted to murder tommen/mycella..hedre they just added Elaria
so what i think we need is not less SS but more, so we can know the characters, what they want….etc. and more Doran of course, Siddig is godlike.
but honestly i’m not really suprised. it’s easy to forget, it was almost 10 years ago, but when AFFC came out Dorne got just as much hate as now.
but it’s col to hate Dorne just like Qarth was in season 2.
dont get me wrong either tough, Dorne was the easly the weakest storyline this season, but i hardly think its the disaster some folks make it out. i for one think this season was a simply a introduction, and will get some more meaty scenes next season
I love Isaac and I’m so happy to see him again!
Sue the Fury,
I wasn’t trying to imply that you were a stalker or that Kit being in Belfast isn’t a big deal (it is). And I don’t claim to know Kit or anything but I can imagine that having people popping out of everywhere snapping pictures of him doesn’t feel too good. I’m probably in the minority about this but it really should stop, even though I know that it won’t.
Agreed on the SS thing as well. Any problems with the SS had nothing to do with the actresses and everything to do with the writing. People can be dicks when it comes to that. As I said before, if the SS are split up and put in more interesting situations, then they’ll totally shine.
Ena of Oldstones,
HAHAHAHAHA
obara= lets go burn oldtown because im angry
nym= lets kill children beecause im angry
tyene= i’m the sneaky one with poison
i will be the first to admit that in the show they are very cliche
but to say thats not so in the books its simply luaghable.
I can think of worse things in life than to be a young healthy guy in the prime of young adulthood having success at one’s profession and having to put up with some overzealous fan and media attention.
It would be one thing if he was likely to become an ultra uber celebrity on the level of say the Beatles or Jack Nicholson or something and was looking at never really having any privacy again. But I think at some point this will all fade away to reasonable level for Mr. Harrington.
Plus, in all the pics, he looks like a normal happy well adjusted guy enjoying life. I don’t think it making him very miserable at least from what I can see.
Sometimes always goes bad when you start to pick favourites.We have to cut the Griffs out because we don’t want to put Dany in a bad light but what are the damages?Leaving everything from their story behind you also have to cut for example Arianne,and by so,destroy the Dorne season 5 arc too.Queenmaker plot can’t work with Ellaria,it couldn’t be logically explained,so we just give the same plot to all 4 of them for the entire season.And not a very bright one,kill her for what exactly?And it’s not very interesting when nothing else happens there in all this time.
Maceless Fan,
Ya no I agree it’s no fun… Most actors hate it. Not everyone is a Kim kardashian who go to the paparazzi ridden places lol
But it comes with the business – especially when you play a favourite like Jon snow.
The Sand Snake actresses were definitely not well-served. I feel especially bad for Henwick, who in the final cut of Season 5 has maybe two lines, and trained for months with that whip only for the fight scene to just show how ridiculous it is as a solo weapon.
I do hope the show can rescue those characters, but at the same time I’m hard-pressed to see how Ellaria and the Snakes can even still be alive after what they did last season. Doran should be mounting their heads on spikes.
Surely Kit doesn’t eat pizza?
Ena of Oldstones,
Again, for me and in my opinion (opinions are like……..erm, belly buttons, everyone has one….doesn’t make it right or any better than anyone else’s) there were much better fleshed out characterizations from show to book, even taking the book as a stand alone product. If I had to list the best realized characters from the books, the Sand Snakes would still rate closer to the bottom. They are not alone there….but we are talking about them.
As I said in a later post, hope their characters are given more attention and time next season, so we all can get to know them as I am sure there is a good point for them being on the show.
Mihnea
People can disagree or not care for something without being considered to “hate on them”. That is a tired meme.
Sean C.,
i can see Ellaria being killed, and SS send on some mission. like infiltrate the fate/oldtown…etc.
i have to admit tough…being off-book is very fun.
Mihnea,
Many book readers are not surprised that HBO’s Sand Snakes are not universally beloved.
Garbage in. Garbage out.
As someone who lives in Los Angeles, I see the paps all the time and there’s nothing “fun and games” about what they do. They are unrepentant assholes who will shove people aside to get to their “target”, then swarm and surround that person snapping pictures, just waiting goading them into doing something scandalous so they can sell their pictures for more $$$. I’ve literally been personally shoved aside as they pursued someone I didn’t even recognize. They are awful human beings.
JCDavis,
i have no problem with critisism
@Sean C. made a good point without insulting or rageing….etc. i respect that
my problem is when there is no critisism. just ”this story sucked!!1!”
Sullied by Knight,
Yes, Doran hints to it in one scene on the show. They must have done that for a reason.
She’s up to something
Cumsprite,
my point, you can freally say this characters are bad/cliche. but to say they are “flashed out in the books” when they barely have apeared in 3 pages is simply luaghable
Dolorous Methuselah,
It must be a thrill at first, to have people recognize you, want autographs and snap a pic. I’m sure it gets tiresome, but when he enters a period when he is not the “talk of the town” he might miss the attention. I watched Harry Lloyd in Supreme Tweeter (as recommended on this site) and it was a very entertaining 20 minutes! In fact, I think I’ll watch it again!
Good to see Hodor and Bran out and about. I am so terribly, terribly bored with the Kit H. sighting news and discussions now that I am reaching the point where I almost want him not to appear in Season 6! As for the Sand Snakes, I hope Doran was in on the plot, something exciting happens with the Martell storyline and the Sand Snakes get individual storylines. And please change the prevalent yellow from the Dornish costumes. (And on the subject of costumes, give Daenerys something to wear that’s not white and drab. )
I am hoping for *The Sandsnakes – Bad Pussy Roadtrip To KL*.
Yeah ! I´m sold !
*fistpump*
Yes, the Sand Snakes have a sexual appeal. This is not inherently a bad thing, unless of course you generally are resentful towards women. It happens in real life too, believe it or not, there are beautiful female warriors. The overwhelming majority of criticism for the Sand Snakes comes along with a misogynistic / sexist sentiment.
If I would produce the show at this point I would make Doran bring(secretly) Darkstar around to clean this mess.I wouldn’t want Ellaria to be killed at Doran’s order so Darkstar could do it.If we get an Arthur Dayne flashback it would be even easier to bring someone with the same name in.Won’t happen but it would be dope.I am of the night.
flintwielder,
when people say “bad pussy” was a bad writing (wich it was!)
i point them at “fat pink mast”
and beside thats Oberyn’s girl. what do you expect?
Agreed. One of the problems with having so many characters in the story is differentiating one from another as a writer. That’s how we get Vargo’s lisp, grotesques like the Yellow Whale, blue beards, Darkstar and comic-book triads like the Sand Snakes.
Is that from THE BOOK? (Not a book reader, so no idea about the context.) If it’s from THE BOOK, then wow, what incredibly profound writing!
Kay,
yup when Sam sleeps with Gilly
Cumsprite,
strongly agree with that, those ”traits” are simply there to help the reader know wich is wich.
imagine Vargo on the show blabbaring….
Sean C.,
I suspect that early in S6 one of two things will occur.
1) Ellaria will give the SS’s a final call to action before her execution on the orders of Doran. This “purpose” will drive their actions for the rest of the show.
2) Ellaria is immediately executed and Doran persuades the SS’s to aid him with whatever his ultimate plan is.
Lion of Night,
IF Elarria dies. thats how i see things going
IF NOT then i got no clue
doug,
In particular, I was thinking of how I’ve had to stop including the Twitter names (@) of the actresses when tweeting interviews, as I would have before (I like to do that when there’s room). Because every time people would reply with nasty messages directed at us AND the Sand Snakes performers’s whose twitter names were included in the original tweet. Totally unnecessary and rude behavior from fans.
That’s not even counting the messages people just tweeted directly at them without any inducing.
Ravyn,
Fun and games was referring to the Hair Watch
Kay,
careful what you wish for lol 😛
___
I had no problems with Dorne and the SS. I actually wish we had more Dorne last season. Yes, some things could have been done better… but, I liked it overall!
Sue the Fury,
that is just despicable. its sad to see people insult the actresses.
and even the writers for that matter. you must truly be ignorant to think this people don’t want to make a good story.
i’m sure everyone did the best they could with the money and the time they had been given.
Elizabeth Banks is learning Dothraki. She must be a big fan:
https://twitter.com/ElizabethBanks/status/629325898114707456
Maceless Fan,
True. It’s almost as bad as Breaking Bad fans throwing pizzas on the roof of an occupied Albuquerque house.
Deesensfan,
you see thats mostly a book reader thing. mostly
i have a friend who loved Dany’s story in Qarth in season 2. he said it was the best story that year. then he read the book, and….was dissapointed they didn’t inculde some things.
so after 3 years he still refuses to read the third book, until after the show ends.
Aw, don´t get me wrong, I can live with the Sand Snakes. A little camp never hurts.
Now, comparing *bad pussy* with *fat pink mast / Myrish swamp*: They are all pretty bad. Only difference, IMO: The book expressions don´t sound out of place in a medieval setting. *Bad pussy*, though, sounds like modern-days jargon inserted in a medieval setting. It is so odd in that context, it takes you *out* of that scene.
Mihnea,
I loved Qarth also. I have no read the books yet.
Yeah I guess its hard to truly separate the show and the book… but for book readers… in order to enjoy the show, they should forget the books exist! haha.
Speaking of Dorne – when is the next round of the WotW Awards coming up? I’m excited to see whether my nominees will make it.
Maceless Fan,
Not a little, a lot stalker-ish.Leave this boy alone friends.
flintwielder,
i’ll give it that it sounds a bit too modern, yeah. still tough i personally put them all in the “they where never said” category.
EDIT: god damnit. i finaly managed to forget the ”Mirish swamp”. thank you!!
Ena of Oldstones,
They’re flat cliches in both versions. D and D definately did not ruin something amazing grrm wrote. I prefer the tv-version of the sandsnakes, because the B-movie sillyness fits better into Game of Thrones than A Song of Ice and fire. The femme fatale, superhero trio aspects are all in the book. They had two choices. 1: create a version more realistic and serious than the book. This would have ended up even more ridiciouless trying to hide the fact that they are cardboard characters. Instead they chose 2: welcome the sillyness and give us three B-movie Xenaesque amazon warriors who flirt and fuck and fight and look good. Dorne was a light, almost comedic subplot in an otherwise deeply dark season. It could probably have been written better, but get over it. The sandsnakes are obviously important in the long run (as they are still present in both versions), and the tv-version is quote close to the source material. I dont the actresses try to hide anything as you suggest. I Think they understand the initial vision and believe in their storyline. And I’ll say it again, the Tyene character was a lot of fun, and I nominated her for best supporting actress.
Phyllis Ashley,
Heyy, I was at Tampa Bay Comic Con and I met them too! I can confirm they’re quite awesome.
Totally agree !!!
And she’s the only one of the three SS that didnt get her own “moment”… Obara had her speech about how Oberyn found her and Tyene flashed her tits and flirted with Bronn…
Yet the most interesting one of the lot (at least in my eyes), Nym didnt get anything at all ! I remember Jessica Henwick stating before the season that hers was the savviest and most political of her sisters and I was so expecting her to have a one to one scene with Doran and be sent to take a seat at the Small Council but not at all !
I really hope she’ll get more to do next season !
Oh, definitely. They all belong in the *must make myself forget* category. Sorry for ruining that process re the third expression. lulz.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
tyene was really good during the prison scene (no not the boobs……altough i did enjoy them). but it was the smiling i liked, i just saw Oberyn(Pedro) in that scene.
flintwielder,
and ariannes huge black nipples. now i remenbered them all, damn.
damn them!! damn then all to hell!!
Lion of Night,
I really don’t see why Doran would keep the Sand Snakes around. They’re every bit as guilty as Ellaria, they are now demonstrably untrustworthy and endangered his son, and there’s nothing about their status or whatever that would provide mitigating considerations.
I think the show should play down the Sand Snakes a bit this year as they were increidbly disappointing. I thought they were pretty one dimensional and irrelevant in the books so was hoping the show would do something with them but they were even worse. Not laying all the blame at the door of the actresses but they were awful as characters.
But let’s move on. Hopefully something can be salvaged from the bad pussy debacle. I think it would be wise for Nymeria to head to Oldtown (where hopefully Euron will kill her), Tyene to the Faith in KL (where hopefully the HS will kill her) and Obara…erm well I don’t think Dorne is going to be too welcome to have a seat on the council now. I say have Doran kill Ellaria off and maybe Obara kept as a hostage or killed too…or maybe even sent to Mereen to forge an alliance with Dany.
What I really hope doesn’t happen is a Charlie’s Angel-like mission where they have to rescue Trystane from KL.
At this point, I’d be happy for them all to be killed quickly and without much ceremony. The good thing about their showing last season is that surely they can only get better….surely?!
No sighting of any other Dornish characters yet?
Sean C.,
plot. if they have a role to play. one that we simply don’t know.
in the books and show
TheTouchOfFrost,
they wont be killed because people didn’t like them.
will they invest more money and time? yup
but killing them because some people didn’t like then? no
they will continue to tell the story the way they envision it, no matter what.
and i do want to point out while i did not like Dorne, i have many friends who did. so the holle ” it was a disaster, just kill them off” wont happen
Deesensfan,
No. Not at all. There are many who read and enjoyed the books and love the show. (I think we are up to four in the club now?? Right, Pigeon?) 😉 Seriously though, I think people do love to just come here and debate one scene vs book or character development vs book. It is fun to do in the off season…keeps everyone interested.
PS. Please read the books at some point. I encourage everyone to read.
JCDavis,
forums are a VERY bad place to see how much people like the show or Dorne for that matter. here on forums come only the most die-hard of fans, that most of the times don’t even make 20% of the fans. so even then this people who really hate the show are the minority of a minority.
i’ve only read Book 1, so I didn’t get to Qarth. I actually liked what they put on screen, for the most part. The actor who played Xaro was fantastic. I thought the two scenes Dany had in front of his vault were the some of the best, most subtle, acting Emilia’s done on the show yet. Her line, “Thank you for teaching me this lesson” before locking the two in the vault for all time was bone chilling. I forgive it somewhat for the cheesiness of some of the effects and sets, being that they spent most of the money that season on Blackwater.
Ravyn,
exactly. while i can put a wall between them: differant mediums/ways telling the same story. some people just can’t.
thats why my friend has book 3, known as the best book in the series by far. and still does not want to read it before the show ends
Kay,
I think they are doing that with Dany to set up her going to Westeros in a blood red dress that just looks effing awesome… People will freak…may e black and red but probably all red….thoughts on that prediction?
I liked Qarth. I read the books between the second and third seasons though so I’m sure that helped.
Ahh, I still remember those days. Season two. Watching out for all the spoiler discussion here (well, “that other place.” But basically here). One day I accidentally clicked on something. “Purple Wedding?” I thought. “Uhh, festive…?”
Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!),
Qarth is a prime example of hating just because it was not like that in the books.
people taking the same cynical view on thinking the cuts/changes where made because DD simply hate them. insteand of analizing the new information we got, we just hate it because it was different
JCDavis,
no totally.. its okay to compare the book and the show and have a preference… but I don’t think the show should be judged on what it left out from the books or changed. it should be judged stand a lone. in my opinion.
hahaha 4, wow big group 😉
Oh, theyre there sitting in my room… I will read them… I don’t know how much to read. I am thinking up to book three. And then finish the rest of the books till after the show is done. Also, im scared to read them and get attached and then get disappointed on a) what happens in book 6 *cough* jon snow (lol you never know..) and b) the fact that books may never be completed
Actually, now that we have more time with eight seasons, I want the Sand Snakes to come back so they can REDEEM them with a better written subplot on the second try.
I *wanted* them to come back so they an have a shot at “fixing” them – hopefully, HOPEFULLY the writers themselves couldn’t possibly be happy with what they ultimately produced for the Sand Snakes in Season 5.
I think there is a good case for the immediate execution of Ellaria for the crime of the terrible haircut she was sporting last season!
What I think is absurd about Hair Watch is that news sites (not you guys) spend hours obsessing over Kit’s hair…..and few have really tried to analyze the changes that the TV show made in his storyline, i.e. *the motivations of the men who stabbed him*:
Episode 8: Jon arrives at Hardhome by ship, and leaves with the wildlings by ship.
Episode 9: Jon and the wildlings, without explanation, are suddenly arriving at the north side of Castle Black, BY LAND, the ships have just disappeared. All apparently so they can have a tense moment of Thorne deciding to let Jon and the wildlings through the Wall.
Episode 10: Thorne stabs Jon….for betraying the Watch by letting the wildlings through the Wall? If he was so set against it, why did Thorne even let Jon and/or the wildlings through the Wall *in the immediately preceding episode*?
This isn’t something that can merely be handwaved away.
I mean, if next season Thorne says “we killed him now because Melisandre brought news that the Boltons had won, and they’d try to destroy us if we were led by a Stark heir”….fine.
But I mean, even within the TV continuity itself and ignoring the novels….this is just a plot hole, as presented.
yet people waste more time analyzing Kit’s HAIR?
The Dragon Demands,
i’m sure they are not happy.
1 more point tough i forgot. last season they filmed in spain only for Dorne, so perhaps they did not receive so much funding. now tough that they seam to be filimg so much in spain i expect more money to be directed there.
what i expect is the basicaly the last dornish part from ADWD and the jumping directly in TWOW material, what that is, is anyones guess.
Yeah, me too. I mean I read through ALL of their interviews to write up their wiki pages — they put A LOT of thought into their characterizations and group dynamic, NONE of which came across in Season 5 (they simply didn’t get enough script dialogue to show off all this effort they put into it).
Possibly. We thought she was cut for sure, but the Oldtown subplot now appears to be in Season 6, so….a surprisingly good chance?
Im getting the feeling season 6 will be 70% AFFC-DWD – 30 % WOW
I was hoping for the other way around…
The Dragon Demands,
i will give you the entrance of jon through the north, was simply made for 2 reasons.
1 so they don’t waste money
2 it looked good. the scene did not bother me at all tough. i see this as a neccesary sacrifice of adaptation.
for thorne tough? i took it as this.
jon still has loyal man on that side of the wall, the wildlings could easly break the door down.
so he chose to kill jon quietly. so most likely in season 6, he wont boast about his killing, but try to blame it on the wildlings.
Well I thought it was because of the move to Spain but….many Meereen scenes were ALSO filmed in Spain.
JCDavis,
Perhaps we could form some sort of barbershop quartet? 😉
Hoyti Von Totiy,
it will be cut…kingsmoot will be most likely in the first 2 episodes, if at all!. they will then jump in his TWOW material
same with Dorne, they have 1 more chapter to adapt, wich most likely they will, the SS do need to be put to work. then they will do theyre TWOW material
all other storylines ar already in TWOW…..
oh but i forgot you’re a troll, so you now that already.
The Dragon Demands,
Mareen is in Croatia.
only the fighting pit was filmed in Spain. wich also likely eated most of theyre buget.
can’t edit my other comment for some reason
The SS’s would definitely be better utilized if the show plugged them in where littlefinger peddles his fantasies. The Dorne plot is atrocious and I’m crossing my fingers the iron islands are the complete opposite
GoTstan,
ah…and i who tought all the hate ended during AFFC realese. how wrong i was.
The Dragon Demands,
– Thorne could have been afraid of Stannis returning to the Wall, finding out about his disobedience and burning him alive for treason.
– I also think that there was more to Jon’s murder than they showed us. Perphaps they had heard of Ramsay’s unnecesary cruelty (Moat Caitlin, the Forresters, the Cerwyns…) and decided not to take risks.
– I agree. The boats-land thing made no sense!
The Dragon Demands,
Not many. Only Daznak’s.
Maceless Fan,
+1000 I’ll admit I had the fever for a week after the season ended. After that not so much whatsoever. I love ASOIAF/GoT and there’s so much in the universe
Have you guys seen this: http://highlighthollywood.com/2015/08/game-of-thrones-season-6-white-walker-scene-planned-that-will-eclipse-hardhome-from-season-5-highlight-hollywood-news-2/ ?
It could be bullshit, but it got me really excited.
Balerion The Cat,
i am 100% will see more WW.
I must’ve missed the porno aspect of both Nym and Obara’s characters, last season.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
shhhh. dont wake the troll, let him sleep in his cave of perfection and complexity.
The Dragon Demands,
RE: Jon and the Wildlings landing North of the Wall when they left from Eastwatch, I just tell myself that they were caught in a storm and they couldn’t make it back to Eastwatch.
GeekFurious,
Watch I can see a princess Diana type scenario play out where kits trying to make a break from the paparazzi bc he just can’t take the endless photos being snapped up of him, then outta nowhere, boom, a macktruck outta nowhere, and he finds out if L+R is true
Tyrion Pimpslap,
they did not left from eastwatch tough….when they left,Jon and Tormund left trough the wall.
You must be young or stupid…. opinions always matter and are always better or worse than the others. You negate the very existence of society if you say that opinions are just a subjective thing no closer to truth than the others. Like pretty much everything, opinions have their own value. We make valuable judgments or less valuable judgments. We are closer to the truth or farther. Or just we have the truth or not.
Mihnea,
They used Stannis’ ships to get to Hardhome. Are you saying Stannis’ fleet was anchored North of the Wall?
the north,
Wow….just wow. “my mother used to always say, stupid is as stupid does”.
I feel sorry for the actresses who play the Sand Snakes. Not only are they fans of the actual source material, but they’re good actresses too. It’s kind of tragic, actually. Because there’s literally nothing they could do. They could deliver Oscar winning performances and it’ll still be a total disaster.
Off-Topic, but very exiciting news to me….
HBO orders two David Simon projects!
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hbo-orders-two-david-simon-813513
Tyrion Pimpslap,
i’m saying they went trough the wall when they left.
Mihnea,
How did they get to the ships then? And why would they risk traveling from Castle Black to the sea from beyond the Wall? They didn’t show them leaving through the Wall, so I have no reason to believe they did.
I hope either the Sand Snakes get recast or D & D just completely forget about them. They were a complete disaster in Season 5.
Damn why so much hate towards books and show? At the end of the day it’s all make belief and business. People take this stuff way to seriously. Kit is probably going to go full Harrison Ford and think all sci fi fantasy fans are nothing but overgrown no life losers.
Ciel,
As a member of the following fandoms:
Game of Thrones/ASOIAF
Star Trek
Star Wars
Final Fantasy
Mass Effect
Farscape
Babylon 5
Stargate
Metal Gear
Zelda
Otherland
…I can assure you this is, unfortunately, a rather universal problem. There’s always going to be a not-inconsiderable fraction of the fans of the things we enjoy who are going to give us all a bad rep to some degree or another. D:
Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!),
yup thats true. LOTR fans say the movies did not do justice to the books…so on.
for example i remenber someone said he stoped watching when the movie got Faramir wrong, when he misstreated gollum, while in the books he was kinda good with him.
that is fandoms for you general. thank the lord almightly tough that they have no say in production/writing.
It’s great to know the SS will be back. Hopefully their characters have more screentime and are involved in better witten plots, so the actresses can really showcase their skills. Give jessica more than 3 lines, please.
Al Swearengen,
Yeah, sure, ignore the fact that it was a plot problem and blame it on the actresses. If freaking Meryl Streep was cast as a SS last season the plot would have been just as weak, regardless of the acting.
Al Swearengen,
Yeah cause your opinion is so valuable to them,i’m sure right now they are looking like hey it’s that Al Swearengen guy(a name you don’t deserve btw) who has been trolling for years and is known for irrationally hating the show,i’m sure his opinion counts the most .
The Dragon Demands,
Because Thorne wanted to let Jon hoist himself on his own petard? By letting him through the Wall he was seen as being obedient to the Lord Commander and it puts the responsibility of the act all on Jon. It was the “nail” in Jon’s coffin (if you’ll pardon the bad pun) that probably helped push Thorne’s conspirators to the point they were willing to kill Jon.
Sean C.,
On the contrary, I’d argue that because of their status Doran *may* choose to keep them alive. To Doran, the rebelling SS’s are indeed disposable, but at the end of the day the SS’s amount to agents or tools of Ellaria to accomplish some means. They are pure support.
So the decision for Doran to make becomes “Do I need these agents to help me accomplish my means?” If he decides that they have no use or finds it is impossible to persuade them, he will dispose of the SS’s. If he feels he can use them and/or persuade them for his personal means, he will do so, just as Ellaria did in S5.
Tangent: I think the nature of the show SS’s as characters is why they received so much hate. They were heavily advertised & promoted but amount to angry people whom other characters see fit to manipulate. They might be essential gears but they aren’t the drivers. Now, perhaps we’ll see them pursue their own goals and grow as characters next year…and that would be great…but I’m not expecting it.
Lion of Night,
totally agree. the argument that Doran has to kill then is very rudandent.
they where casted, so that means they will affect the storyline in some way.
now on the other hand Ellaria’s story was merged with Arianne’s. so from that alone it shows tha Ellaria in the books does not play a major role
so in conclusion? SS will live. Elarria tough i’m not sure. here is the real question.
Deesensfan,
I kind of agree with you. Dorne was a bit of a mess and the Sand Snakes were cartoonish, but I do hope we will have a chance to see some character development in Season 6. At least in S5 they served as a comic relief in a rather bleak season… And for that, I’m grateful… However, I hope we see them doing something more interesting than being a dornish version of Charlie’s Angels.
I found an audition tape for Dickon Tarly on vimeo:
Balerion The Cat,
It looks like the same guy who made a fake Quentyn Martell casting tape last year.
Eh, I love both the show and the books, didn’t have a problem with Qarth onscreen either, not that it matters…
but IMO the SS were so dismally written and directed (and edited, apparently, since they had practically no screentime), so they could lose them for next season for all I care. Agree that it’s a pity Trystane gets one of the most interesting potential Dorne storylines (the Council…some of those scenes with Tywin, Tyrion, Cersei, Littlefinger et al were the best written of the entire show), boo. That actor doesn’t do anything for me. I think Keisha Castle-Hughes is a great actress, and I haven’t seen the others in anything so can’t say, but still I don’t think it has anything to do with their acting – I agree with whoever said the writers decided to go full on Xena B-movie with the SS and it just didn’t work.
Bottom line, give us more Siddig who was tragically wasted!
So I’m not caught up to the SS in the books yet but the only truely horrible parts were
any Obara lines
Tyenes little hissifit after the fight with Bronn
That’s obviously besides them having more lines..and doesn’t include Ellarias horrible plan to capture Marcella without getting caught.
Anybody for Danny wearing a red dress as she comes to Westeros or whatever her first public appearance is?
Lion of Night,
The Snakes weren’t manipulated, though. Ellaria was quite straightforward. And as of right now, their history with Doran is:
– Doran orders them not to attack Myrcella.
– They try to abduct/kill Myrcella.
– Doran offers them the chance to swear loyalty to him or die.
– They swear loyalty to him.
– They kill Myrcella, in the process handing his son Trystane over to the Lannisters as a prisoner (most likely) when Dorne has no corresponding leverage to keep Trystane alive.
There is no rational reason to keep them alive. They are dangerous and untrustworthy, and have already done serious damage to House Martell.
“Cast”.
There’s nothing redundant about this argument (that’s not the correct term for what you appear to be suggesting, as well). Whether the show has Doran make use of the Sand Snakes is a completely separate matter from whether it makes any sense for him to do so.
Dame Pasty,
What you’ve just said!! Word by word!!
Hi-Fi,
Cool, I didn’t know we could learn it!
Balerion The Cat,
Definitely the same guy and I’m pretty sure they cast Dickon a while ago (no I don’t know who is playing him) so I think this is just another unsolicited self-made tape by this guy, with no real audition material in it.
Fans have a right to complain if they don’t like something (entire Dorne story), but it should be done tactfully. It is unfortunate that trolling, name calling and just all around venting towards people on the internet is somehow acceptable behavior because no repercussions ever come out of it. I believe if people got their IP’s banned for nasty language, a lot of that would disappear.
A decent number of folks also have the follower mentality, where if they see others bashing something, it influences their opinion and they simply join in. I know that has happened a few times to me. I never had a negative thing to say during the first 4 seasons of the show, when i followed no fan sites or read comments, where as season 5 has largely been spoiled and portrayed in a negative light in my mind, and big part of it is having my views influenced by these so called GoT experts, who don’t agree on the shows direction and writing. The main thing to know is that this is David and Dan’s version, not your own. There’s a reason they’re in charge and not you or I. We would all be better off just watching the episodes without judging every single thing and recommending how it could have been done better.
The Dragon Demands,
I don’t have a problem with Thorne not killing Jon right away or refusing to let him back into the Gate. Aside from letting himself be shown as more obedient, Thorne probably also needed more time to convince people to mutiny. We saw Olly struggling with the decision during the season. Thorne likely did not have everyone with him right off the bat, as much as some people were uncomfortable with the wildlings. It’s more believable that way- people are rarely willing to make that big a step, into assassination, so easily.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
But Stannis’ ships were never anchored at Eastwatch-by-the-Sea… If I remember correctly, in the show the ships should’ve been anchored North of the Wall, from were Stannis landed and went attacking the wildlings.
So it makes sense that Jon and his party had to cross the Wall to head to the ships and when they came back, landed in the same place the ships departed from…
While I was bothered by them returning from north of the Wall, there is this: Stannis’ ships originally landed north of the Wall. We know this because his troops came from that direction, surprising Jon Snow, one of the gatekeepers. Then Stannis’ troops seemingly used the tunnel to get south at Castle Black. For the ships to be south of the Wall before Jon’s cohort set out, a message would have had to be sent to them telling them to dock somewhere else. I don’t have an opinion on whether or not that would happen. There might be reasons his ships had to stay docked away from Westerosi society. In any case, there’s a reason the ships would have been there to start. And that might help a bit to explain why they would dock north of the Wall on Jon’s way back, because that’s where they were before.
I don’t recall if Hardhome was indicated on the show’s titles map. If not, it might be that show geography renders a north-of-the-Wall return sensible.
I have no problem with Jessica, Keisha, or Rosabell. They did fine with the shitty material they were given. Sadly, they were written to be little more than mini-Oberyns who barely got any lines and really just ran around and did whatever Ellaria told them to do. An actor can only do so much with such limited material.
Maybe if the writers had dissociated the Sand Snakes from Oberyn a bit and developed them as unique characters with their own personalities and motivations, things would’ve turned out better. Maybe have one of them not be totally onboard with Ellaria’s plan just to add a little tension… I dunno, they just kinda botched the whole thing by not doing anything interesting or unique with three different characters and making them all look, think, and act exactly the same. Even their book counterparts were more unique.
If they’re really coming back in S6, I hope they’ll at least let us get to know these characters a little and have them think and act more independently of each other.
Sue the Fury,
Thanks for clearing that up.
I watched the Quentyn video again and yeah, it’s him. :/
Guess you would say I got Ninja’d.
There are all sorts of reasons for Alliser to let Jon through and later assassinate him. People aren’t robots. It takes time to make a decision. He is human. Even though he hated the idea of the Wildlings coming through, seeing it happen might have had an additive effect. Or it took time to start to get a sense that he had compatriots in a mutiny. It’s not a bit of a story problem that he let Jon through, from a humanist standpoint.
Not happy about the return of the Sand Snakes. If they must bring them back they should have been recast with better actresses with martial arts ability as all the creative editing in the world couldn’t save the horrible fight scenes from Season 5. Really not happy they are going to waste any of the precious time of just 10 episodes each season on Dorne and the Sand Snakes!
Sam Coleman. Duh.
Hey, guys do you know what the budget was for season 5 of GOT?
Balerion The Cat,
And why Robb killed lord Karstark, but spared Cat?
SS are family to him, it is completely different.
This is, indeed, how I perceived it as well.
And I’ve been asked several times by friends why Thorne let them through if he was going to off Jon. And each time, it surprises me a bit, because I came to this conclusion immediately. Thorne isn’t a static character. It boiled in him, and in his fellows. And so they struck, “before it could get any worse.”
Not the most intelligent move in the story, but not without some measure of explanation.
Balerion The Cat,
I have no idea if that story is legitimate, as I’ve never heard of that particular website before. If it is, however, then it’s possible that it could be related to this interview that prosthetic makeup expert Barrie Gower and VFX supervisor Joe Bauer gave to Yahoo shortly before the Season 5 finale.
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/game-of-thrones-dragons-white-walkers-vfx-121365015845.html#
Gower was much more cryptic about a mind-blowing VFX challenge that fans will see in Season 6… probably. “Benioff and Weiss, when they write the outline each year, for last two years, we got to this one point and we read this one gag and thought ‘Oh my God, how the hell are we going to do that? But this is going to be incredible!’ And then it got pulled and we didn’t do it in Season 4,” says Gower. “And then, lo and behold, in Season 5 there it was again. And it’s pulled again! But now, in Season 6, it looks like we’re going to do it. Fingers crossed they won’t chicken out.”
The obvious candidate for a major scene involving the White Walkers would be an attack on the Wall, but something like that would never have been slated to take place prior to Season 6 (and with the news that the show is likely to run 8 seasons, we may not see it happen this year, either). My guess would be that it’s something involving the White Walker’s primary stronghold in the Lands of Always Winter – their hypothetical “capital city”, as it were. Back in Season 4, we had that scene in which Craster’s last son is taken to an imposing fortress in the far north set on an ice altar before the Night’s King so he can be transformed. That scene was extremely impressive, but it’s possible that, in the original script, we were supposed to see even more and the setting was scaled back before filming commenced because of time/budgetary concerns.
Seeing an entire city of White Walkers and getting a better sense of their social structure would certainly qualify as a mind-blowing moment, particularly for book readers who have long theorized about such possibilities without any proof that they actually exist.
The wildlings from Hardhome weren’t the only wildlings in the world. If conservative part of NW let this happen without some sort of punishment, sooner or later Jon would bring all wildlings, and the essence of NW, in their eyes, would be lost.
RandomSand,
As much as I love to criticize D & D the failure of the Sand Snakes wasn’t entirely their fault. The performances from the three actresses simply wasn’t that good. If they can recast characters like Tommen , Myrcella, Gregor and Bloodraven I don’t see why they can’t do the same here.
Loooper the Great,
So I am wrong then? The Sand Snakes in S5 were a success and weren’t torn apart by fans and critics?
I thought Ellaria was the worst part of the Dorne storyline. Hopefully she dies next season.
The Sand Snakes I thought simply needed more development. I honestly kinda liked Tyene after that jail cell scene. Hopefully they can get more in Season 6.
Princessmaria,
They do have extensive training with their weapons and fighting. It was just badly edited when it made it to the show. Also we didn’t see enough of them fighting to really get a sense of how good each SS is individually. Hopefully season 6 will amend these shortages from season 5.
There’s still time to fix the Sand Snakes – all it requires is better writing and somethingfor them to do. There’s nothing wrong with the actresses.
so has Kit been filming for a month now? Surely that confirms a bigger role than a corpse now.
Jared,
I think he is talking about giant ice spiders.
No. Given the horrific murder they participated in at the end of the season, they all need to die awful and/or pathetic deaths.
If Stannis killing one innocent girl to save the world was so awful, how bad is killing an innocent girl in order to start a war?
SS are non important and forgettable characters, only hardcore fans are obsessed with them, like they were the only thing that existed on this show.
Jared,
I’d love that, but I’m not sure I want them to go all the way and include the giant ice spiders! I can imagine that would be hard to pull off without looking faintly Hobbit-ish. I prefer the WWs riding zombie horses to be honest.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Didn’t see your comment before I posted! Man, I hope not.
I personally have no idea what it will be. But I can see one possibility that it could have been something before this season. If:
Jared,
I think it is Bloodraven. Everything fits.
OMG! Return of Sand Snakes! OMG! Cleganebowl CONFIRMED! GET HYPE! …. or some such bollocks!! Really! What if a horse farted on set, what then?
Oh! I got it! It’d be, like, foreshadowing some death (to be decided)! Death by…. horse manure!! What a way for Ser Robert to go! No Cleganebowl now, winkies! Nothing to get hype over!
SO, which Sand Snake would you like to deliver this killing blow?
The Real Gerold Hightower,
You just became my new hero. 😉
I DO try to use the words “in my opinion” when I issue a declarative statement that I already know there are those who would just as strongly disagree with what I wrote. It is just “my opinion” not a challenge.
I thought for a while actually before posting any response but then didn’t want to seem defensive. Thanks for winning the internet today, in my opinion!
Black, red, whatever, some color please, and not the very one-note and drab stuff she wore in S5. Same with the predominance of yellow in Dorne.
The ships did not “appear” either when Jon Snow and Co. set off for Hardhome; they were all mounted on horses. Castle Black doesn’t sit on the ocean. There was a very simple and practical explanation for why Jon appeared on the NORTH side with the wildlings. It’s because the SOUTH side is part of the SEVEN KINGDOMS, and is presumably populated all the way from the Ocean to Castle Black by Northerners (ruled by the Boltons, yes?) It would be politically completely incorrect to sneak thousands of Wildlings south of the Wall through populated lands; they could have caused havoc there, and been massacred by Northern houses.
But…. this argument will continue on, because….. well, it’s the SHOW, of course.
Glad for the confirmation of more Sand Snakes, early last season didn’t do justice to the actors playing them. Though from the Tyene/Bronn scene onward, it was much better. I agree with those who hope the SS split up, it will help flesh out each character to have them interact with different characters in separate plots, furthermore more Dorne = more Doran.
News – HBO offered a cameo to Prince Harry for this upcoming season; which would make for good discussion on yea or nay and what type of cameo, storyline involved, family, should he interact with a major player and so forth.
The Real Gerold Hightower,
Lol,you rekt that dude,he’s not going to respond anymore . I love it when pseudo-intellectuals wannabees get knocked on their face .
I dunno. I think the whole deal about the Gift and the New Gift would negate that (the part I’ve bolded). Also I don’t think the northern most of the northern houses have any love lost for the Boltons. Though it is very correct to say that they would not care for Wildlings either.
Any truth to the rumors that Rory McCann was spotted in Belfast?
Screw it, I just want word of more Siddig, dammit.
J Meezy,
Source? That’d be fantastic, but not holding my breath. 🙂
Interesting. I didn’t realize that the entire portion just south of the Wall comprised the Gift, from sea to sea. Do you have a link to a good map of Westeros and Essos I can refer to in the future? I thought that South of the Wall and east of Castle Black were lands populated by Northern lords.
Of course the Northern Lords have no love for the Boltons. I just meant that none of them, as well as the Boltons, would be OK with 5000 Wildlings showing up in Northern lands if they were NOT part of the Gifts.
Mihnea,
I don’t mean straight away, but at this point they are by far the most disposable characters in the show.
Princessmaria,
To be fair, Jessica Henwick has Wushu training which makes it even more puzzling why they gave her a bloody whip!
People calling for a fourth SS must be out of their minds! We’ve already got three who aren’t really doing anything! The whole Dorne plot last season could have taken place without any of them with Ellaria on her own.
JCDavis,
Add me in.
My problem with the SS was that I was first excited about where Dorne was being filmed, thrilled by who would play Doran, and assumed wrongly that SS would simply take over Arianne plot. I was dismayed how little we really saw of the Dorne that is described in the books and that the SS were written so poorly. Its silly to fault the actresses, I think they did the best they can with what they had. I do hope that D&D have heard enough from fans that there will be some changes made in their story, and with their lines.
I agree and it would be much better, because Indira Varma would have had much more screen time, and she is a great actress, so I think they would be able to pull some kind of moral dilemma “I understand her, but I don’t want an innocent girl to be killed”.
The only explanation is that SS really has some big stuff to do in TWOW.
I’m thinking that Jaime covers up Myrcella’s death to avoid a war with Dorne. They could throw her off the ship in a funeral scene, Trystane would be just as upset by it and the two of them could bond on the way to KL. Jaime wouldn’t want Cersei to find out because then she’d kill Trystane in revenge and then Jaime will worry that someone will kill Tommen to avenge that death — WHERE DOES IT STOP PEOPLE?! So Jaime decides to stop it.
It depends.
If they think that complaints are justified, they will maybe change something, but for example, they obviously thought that complaints about Jaime and Cersei in S4 were bulshit (and I agree), so they wrote Sansa’s rape scene.
The problem is, I really can’t see how SS can be written as great characters, They can be tolerable at best. There is just nothing interesting and intriguing about them.
Hi-Fi,
I know that I read something online (after S1) where Elizabeth Banks said that she was “sort of obsessed with Game of Thrones.” Think she was referring to books.
Maceless Fan,
You are completely right, I do not get why there is a need to take pictures of the poor guy every time someone sees him. Okay he is in Belfast, that’s all anyone interested in Jon Snow fate should need to know, which is still prying btw, if they wanted to confirm his return they would have by now. If people spot the actor 50,0 000 times from here to the season 6 premier it will not change the bloody script, nor D&D’s line on the subject. #leavethemanalone
Possible audition tape for Dickon Tarly. No idea if it’s legit, but if so, mighty interesting.
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Best map I could find quickly:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bay+of+seals+westeros&espv=2&biw=1120&bih=617&tbm=isch&imgil=DdSLQNuoV8cL-M%253A%253BgLhIq5guASFQHM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fawoiaf.westeros.org%25252Findex.php%25252FNorth&source=iu&pf=m&fir=DdSLQNuoV8cL-M%253A%252CgLhIq5guASFQHM%252C_&dpr=1.5&usg=__S_jNXXCbVM-4kqbulPXg06wnIqc%3D&ved=0CFAQyjdqFQoTCOj6nfTqlccCFUoXPgodoAIDkg&ei=5QvEVaj0Icqu-AGghYyQCQ#imgrc=DdSLQNuoV8cL-M%3A&usg=__S_jNXXCbVM-4kqbulPXg06wnIqc%3D
But yeah, I totally agree about the Northern Lords not liking to see that many Wildlings south of the wall. I’m sure they hate the Wildlings as much as the Nights Watch members do. Maybe even more because of the raiding and stuff that the Wildlings have done South of the Wall.
MeeraForrester,
Proven false.
EDIT: Well there you have it, color me surprised. Apparently the Tarly vid’s fake.
mau,
Where has it been proven false? I believe you, I just haven’t seen anything yet.
This. This this this this this.
Yes. More Siddig dammit.
mau,
Possibly…although Young Griff and Lady SH may have done too!
MeeraForrester,
Don’t think it’s legit as not sure why they’d have Randyll up in KL.
Also, no disrespect to that guy, but I don’t think I can imagine many people who would be worse for the Dickon role!
MeeraForrester,
Same guy who did a fake Quentyn Martell audition last year.
It wouldn’t surprise me if it was false. It came across like a monologue disguised as a conversation. More likely maybe an audition tape someone made on their own using words they thought Rickon was likely to say.
Though you never really know.
mau,
To me, the Sand Snakes came across as Ellaria’s minions. Yes, they are well trained fighters and Oberyn’s daughters, but it felt a little more “Charlie’s Angels” than fierce, independent, free-spirited sisters. Maybe with Ellaria out of the picture, and a good plot line, they can shine.
did anyone hear the latest rumor a Reddit user was saying about a possible Rory McCann siting in Belfast? Oddly enough he said that he was with Kit in a Restaurant. How quaint. Grain of salt. All that. Blah blah. Who knows. Maybe we should kickstart a game of thrones actor tracking app?
Count me in as well. We are a bigger group (especially on this site) than certain others would have you believe.
I’ll be happy to see more of Dorne as a whole. Part of the problem with the whole storyline was lack of development. I hope the casting call for children was for a Water Gardens scene and that they develop the culture and people of Dorne. But most of all, I hope for the appearance of a Dayne–any Dayne! 🙂
Kay,
This is one of my favorite maps:
http://www.sermountaingoat.co.uk/map/versions/speculative_map.jpg
Al Swearengen,
Ok. Jessica had 3 lines during the whole freaking season: “We might have a problem” ,”We are lucky he is a singer; if he were a fighter we might have been in trouble” and the line about being better than Tyene during that hand beating game. Please enlighten me on how she could have delivered those better in a way that improved the dornish plot. Tell me how you would say the “bad pussy” line differently than Rosabell, in a way that lifted the story to a whole new level. How would you deliver those out of nowhere monologues that Keisha had in a better way. You can’t. There is no way, because they did a very good job with the extremely weak material they had. Bash the dornish plotline as much as you want but do not blame the actors, they had nothing to do with it.
I totally agree.
Thanks! I love the different regions shown in such detail.
This is great too. All in one place, can be expanded, and shows the relative positions of places in Westeros and Essos.
RandomSand
Good call. The last season overall was a bit breathless in pace and the sand snakes weren’t introduced properly. But that can still be rectified.
JCDavis,
You’ve been sufficiently defended, I think, but I just wanted to add my two cents real quick.
After reading your thoroughly entertaining story the other day about meeting Frank Herbert (In 1969..?) and all your various geek/reading bona fides, I found it both shocking and shockingly hilarious that this fool’s retort to you included the opening line “You must be young or stupid…” Just couldn’t have been more wrong headed if he tried.
(Not to imply that you are old, of course, but anyone reading “Dune” in 1969 does not deserve to be put in the Young and Stupid Box, in my book!)
Anyhow, just thought you might enjoy knowing someone else out here has read and understood you. Onward!
Oh yeah, and I wanna be part of the “Show & Books Are Both Excellence” group, so please add me, fellows. There are at least eight of us in the world.
We’re going to need a bigger boat! 😉
i have personally found very few people who truly hate the show or think they butchered characters. most of them, while may not like some changes, they do, however understand them.
it is 10-20 people who circle jerk one another. that is why those Rant and Reave threads at westeros.org have 200-500 replies. you will easly see some person alone posting more then 40 replies, complaining about the episode.
while people who enjoyed the episode most often post what they like and then at most 4-5 replies.
what i wanted to say here is that it is wrong to assume book readers don’t like the show, based on comments on fansites. most book readers don’t, just like show watchers, go to this type of forums.
Mihnea,
Fact. There was a time when I put up with the confirmation-bias circlejerking of AFOIAF and people here asked me how I could. At long last I no longer do. It was tolerable when it was just “nitpicking” that the same unimaginative hack mouth-breathers engaged in but now that it’s “ranting and raving”, that handful of goofball posters have poisoned the well for the whole forum.
Thankfully I’ve found greener pastures since, forum-wise.
Greenjones,
same. i posted at westeros for quite awhile. but the the hating become intolerable.
it is, in my opinion, the fualt of the moderators who took most likely Linda’s directive on hating the show. i left that place because people who directly insulted D&D/show where no longer banned.
and when i say insults i mean real insults, not ”this story was bad” but ” Dumb and Dumber are utter idiots”, or they started insulting people who liked the show.
it apears i am ”not intelligent enough to understand the books” if i liked the show i was called stupid and that ”i probaly liked transformers as well”.
but i’m not suprised at all. i was there when AFFC came out. that day the fandom broke in half. so whats left there are the people who REALY, REALLY like those books.
and those who argue GRRM is the best writer of all time.(one time someone argued with me that he was batter then Hamigway…..)
hopefully that site will die soon, i see less and less new people. it’s the same old posters 20k+ posts who are there. discussing endlesly why the show suck and how TWOW will be different.
i’m sorry for them tough. when TWOW come out, and Stannis dies, Harry mistreats Sansa….etc. that will be a dark day for them, and a glourios one for me.
Mihnea,
Elio and Linda swearing off of s6 and the amount of censorship they’re likely to impose there next year as a result will likely kill the site. Which should be fun. 🙂 Fuck ’em.
Greenjones,
i for one wont bother to go there, batter for my sanity.
but im sure there are many people who want to spoil her, after her ”threats” to spoil jon’s death.
one thing tough is that they may need the traffic the show creates, as they outnumber the book readers quite allot, and i don’t think a website can survive with ”rant and reave v50” and ”R+L=J v 178”
I hope so! That’s what people were saying all season, “Man, three just really isn’t enough.”
I actually thing the biggest problem in Dorne (well, at least for me) was Ellaria freakin’ Sand. They f’d her character up pretty badly. She was good in season 4. In season 5, tooootally different character. So vengeful it made me laugh, like when she poured the fcking wine on the floor……just, no.
We all know Doran was awesome, although he had like 10 sec screentime. Areo Hotah convinced me. I actually liked Myrcella and Trystane a lot, which i thought was weird. Sand Snakes were kinda “meh”, but for me, the worst part was Ellaria.
I also enjoy both the books and the show. And I enjoy both sites (and others) or at least some portions of them.
I don’t think either books or show are perfect and there could be interesting discussion to be had to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of either or both to an extent. But we live in a binary age and saying something negative about one or the other is likely to be met with vitrol from one camp or the other so I usually find it preferable to discuss other aspects of the two formats and to mostly stay away from statements of what my personal taste is.
In the long run, personal taste is a pretty subjective thing anyway so there is a limit to how much can be gotten out of a conversation along those lines. Too often it devolves to:
“I thought scene X in format Y was horrible”.
“Well, I thought it was brilliant”.
“O.K.”
And then it gets personal.
Off topic but I noticed on a rewatch that Cersei said that line “I would burn cities to the ground” to protect her kids twice, once to Jamie and once to Tommen. There’s going to be some wildfireworks then.
And once to Tywin in 4×10. That’s surely a foreshadowing. There’s some wildfire left under the buildings of King’s Landing planted by Aerys’ people. I guess in season 6/7 Cersei turns into the Mad Queen and boom!
We share the same opinion!
When I discovered the show and then the books a few years ago, I went on westeros.org and it was great to read theories and discuss about characters and expectation. But since one or two years it’s getting worse, now it’s 95% of hate toward the show and the showrunners (and 5% of discussions about the books), and if you defend the show you’re called an idiot. I’ve spent too much time arguing with them (mostly stubborn book fanatics who think ASOIAF is the Holy Bible and should not be altered in any way).
I’m glad I’ve found watchersonthewall.com, this place is 95% positive and people don’t spend ALL their time hating on something. I accept criticism and love to debate, but endless negativity is a waste of time.
Pigeon,
Beyond off-topic but I needed to tell you something. Your new(ish) avatar has been disturbing me, which isn’t a problem, but it has obviously had more of an effect than I realised.
Watching the murder mystery programme Witnesses yesterday we got to see the murderer in person for the first time. It was an uh-oh this does not look good rather tense bit at the end. Killer, with his back to us, is covering his face with some kind of white paint/powder. Last thing we see is when he finally turns to face the camera and has the exact same pattern on his face as your piccie. My first reaction was Oh my God, Pigeon’s the killer! Didn’t see THAT coming. You seem so nice and reasonable on here, but that’s why they didn’t suspect you. It’s ok I won’t tell anyone! 😉
Good catch – and Gravemaster’s too but I couldn’t figure out how to do a double quote.
The strange thing is that if things keep going the way they are, pretty soon Cersei won’t have any children left to protect. (I’m assuming that Myrcella is as dead as she looked at the end of S5).
Though I don’t think that would stop Cersei. Tommen is still standing (when he’s not laying with Margary). And I think the deaths of her child(ren) and her treatment by the sparrows has her pretty close to the breaking point already and if they all end up dead she would be capable of just about anything.
Moka,
My experience is the same. I used to love popping over there to dive into the books, but the place quickly soured as GoT’s popularity soared and the show began diverging from the source material (as is the right and responsibilty of an adaptation in a different format.) In time they’ll end up like those few strange Stephen King fans who still call Kubrick a moron because his version of The Shining differed from the novel — a strange little anomaly festering in a dank corner of the internet. The rest of the world will have happily moved on.
Matty C,
Thank you. Unexpected kindness is a pearl of great worth. It is easy to be snarky, much too on the internet. I would courtesy but at my decrepit age, things might just break. And you have the year correct, which of course, does about spot me in time and place. I wonder when we are of an age where we would consider ourselves as “old”? When I was a kid we used to say “don’t trust anyone over 50” (I think that came from a movie). Meaning 50 was old I guess. I sure didn’t feel that old turning 50…..but I will say that time sure travels faster after that point. In fact, it is flying by as I type. So.
Just thanks. I rarely know that anyone reads anything that I write.
Pigeon, Ash, Ashara, Dolorous, Jeff O’Connor, me
Yes, Chiefie…we definitely need a bigger boat!! And we are no longer a barbershop quartet. Remember, you can check in any time you like, but you may never leave. *hears the guitar strains of Joe Walsh*
Lulu’s Mum
*raises hand* I too told Pigeon that “I find her avatar disturbing”. I am not sure what it reminded me of until it was explained, then it made sense. I hope you were able to sleep last night!!
On another topic….maybe we will get a new thread or two up today, give some other whipper snapper a chance to call me young and stupid. Ah, I wouldn’t want to miss that.
Cersei’s burning down of KL has been guessed at a bit. I think Tommen is already dead, having killed himself, and Cersei will find him as such, and we’ll learn that last season’s prophesy came true last season. Well, I think it’s a possibility. I think the burning of KL is something like 2-to-1. Wall coming down near 100%. Let’s make some bets!!!
JCDavis,
I’m quite happy to call you young and stupid if it makes you feel better? I have, after all, just accused another poster of being a murderer (I’m a graduate of charm school you know!). It’s the suggestion of bleeding eyes I think, rather than the mask effect, which creeps me out. I had to shut my eyes when Oberyn was having his rearranged, but can watch almost all the other gruesome stuff on GoT without flinching. Apart from one death scene which I didn’t watch so therefore didn’t happen. La la la can’t hear you show cannon, or books if they ever manage to catch up.
For me the idea that I might be considered old by some was when I went to a quiz and a question in the history round was something I clearly remember seeing on the news, although I got the points so not all bad. I think the barber shop quartet has become more of a choir, you might have to get yourselves a tour bus 🙂
EDIT: Mmmm is the editing time being cut from 10 mins to 5 deliberate? I like having longer to realise what utter rubbish I’ve written and try to redeem it.
Moka,
I have only ever lurked at the site sometimes known as “Censeros”. If the people who run it don’t like the show they are entitled to an opinion I guess (and liking or not liking something is personal of course). I don’t like the belittling of people who do like the show – or at least don’t think the show is the worst thing on TV in the last x-z years – that goes on at that site though. There is occasionally some acidity on this site (WotW) but a lot less than on Censo. The mods here do try to do something about it too. As has already been observed, liking the show does not equate to hating the books – or vice versa. I did think – like Ariana Grandell a few posts back – that Ellaria’s character had been changed very strangely last season – I prefer book Ellaria to show Ellaria (at least to season 5 Ellaria).
Mihnea, I think you have a point about SOME (not all) ASOIAF fans being overly obsessed with it as a literary work. Well obviously I like GRRM’s work enough to come here and have a read and sometimes post (five minutes at WotW can perk me up when I’ve been doing some very boring typing or doing a household chore I hate). I sometimes get a bit fed up when people (not necessarily at this site) make out that GRRM is the only writer who has written a dark fantasy, or the only person who has written using the POV character device or the only author who has written about characters who are neither wholly good nor wholly bad. I am grateful to GRRM to coming up with the idea of ASOIAF though and I’ll be even more grateful if he finishes it without too much delay.
Dame of Mercia,
my father had a saying, 2 brothers can’t agree one one thing, how then do we expect this country to go the right way, when you got to make 20M people agree on one subject.
everything i posted is, of course, my personal opinion, wich is free to be criticesed with arguments/evidance in a poilite manner, as i hope i have done. english is not my first language, so some times i may use a different tone then i actoully meant.
and i also strongly agree with you, on the mederation. this place is very nice, some bad apples but it so in every other place, and that is thanks to the efforts of the entire team here. i’m am thankfull of their work, as i suspect many of us are
LordDavos,
Gravemaster,
My prediction is that Jaime will kill her in a similar fashion that he had to kill the Mad King (Mad Queen?) to stop her destroying KL.
Off-Topic Otto,
I’m a spoiler but not book reader so I could be very wrong, but
As for KL, Cersei could certainly cause a lot of damage to some large and significant buildings like the sept, but unless she can start an uncontrollable fire that sweeps through the city a la the Great Fire of London, most of it should be fairly safe as it’s presumably mainly stone, not wood, and therefore not that flammable? Even with wildfire’s explosive potential she’d have to have ignition points all over the city to get that effect and wouldn’t exactly be inconspicuous setting it up. She’d need Ramsay’s 20 good pyromaniacs to help.
Lulu’s Mum,
I think you could construct a story where they get through a breach and are a threat as such, but it just seems like it’s going to be more of a game-changer. Like, if there’s a big ass magical wall that separates, and you’re telling a world-changing story, that wall’s gonna come down. To me the temporary death of Jon points to it as well, as the pending Wallfall means that to keep the character around, he can’t be anywhere near that thing when it goes down. All will die. So he dies and is released from his vows and can vacate the premises. I also felt it odd that the number of Lord Commanders was swiftly approaching 1,000. A big Wallfall will mean all NW are dead (save Sam), so no more LC, at a nice even number — or near it — to boot!
A restaurant, you say? Did McCann eat every fucking chicken in the room?
That’s probably the best-looking fanmade map around. The only problem it has is that a lot of the Essos stuff is out of place (compared to the World of Ice and Fire maps, which were not available when this was put together). However, all of Westeros, the Free Cities region of Essos, and Slaver’s Bay match up 100% with “canon”. Stuff like Qarth, Vaes Dothrak, Ib, etc., are only approximate. Since it’s a fictional world, anyway, that’s probably OK.
Here’s a “canon” map of the entire known world, but without a lot of detail: http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/iceandfire/images/3/37/Ice_and_Fire_World_Map.png/revision/latest?cb=20130127004523
TheTouchOfFrost,
I think he’ll strangle her, per the valonqar prophecy.
But either way, he’s definitely primed to be the valonqar. Cersei has done nothing but treat him like dirt since he got back to King’s Landing, and he’s just so angry all the time and can’t stop thinking about what Tyrion said about Lancel and Osmund. They cut that from the show of course, but now that the word is out that she slept with Lancel, I imagine show Jaime will start going through a similar arc.
Direhound,
Yeah we’ve seen it but there’s zero confirmation anyone else saw anything. And no pics. No reason to believe so I’m not going to put stock in this sighting yet- there’s too many over-the-top Cleganebowl obsessives at reddit and the commenter wasn’t a particularly known person in the subreddit, either.
Lulu’s Mum,
Dammit, I spent a lot of time on that makeup (I mean, at least 10 minutes), and here some television program rips me off as a sadistic killer? That’s just….well, pretty cool actually.
It was a Halloween tribute to Oberyn last year. Le sigh. If only his offspring retained any of his charisma.
Hmmm…. Tommen having already killed himself would be dark, dark, indeed! Imagine what Cersei will be like! 😀 I place the burning of KL to be 100%. It was in Daenerys’ vision in Qarth. And I am pretty certain that Cersei will do it. It’s her destiny! I wonder how long the unified Seven Kingdoms will last. Is it possible that by the end of Season 6, Westeros will fragment into individual, pre-Targaryen kingdoms? Boltons, Martells, Tyrells, Iron Islanders, all in their own seats, and Cersei, Jaime, uncle all back in Casterly Rock? Didn’t GRRM say the books would go to CR? Wasn’t there speculation that one of the locations scouted for Season 6 could be CR?
Gravemaster
I didn’t realise about the earlier mention.
GRRM does like to work in the circle of history with events being repeated. The only thing is it seems a bit rushed for all her kids to have died already and for her ready to go bat extreme crazy. Jamie still doesn’t seem near ready to turn on her. It seems more like a last season scenario.
TheTouchOfFrost
That scenario of mirroring Jamie’s previous kingslaying could appeal to the show which left off the little brother part of the prophesy and strangling.
The show has already depicted the throne room with the roof cut away.
Robb Snow,
They certainly need to do something to start distancing them from eachother. I think Myrcella will be a major thing but the other parts will play into it especially the Lancel thing. Can actually see them moving Jaime to the Riverlands and last season him and Brienne were weved into other stories to keep them involved and doing something as they have delayed the SH (or some sort of proxy for her) story. But who really knows anymore?!
LordDavos,
Possibly. I wonder whether it will be when Dany comes for the Throne or someone else. Love it if Jaime somehow survived but I’d be amazed if he did! Think the best he can hope for is the Nightswatch…if it even exists when all is said and done! Would be a suitable way to live out his days keeping an oath to defend the people of the realm when he has been maligned for most of his life for breaking an oath to protect the people of KL. Goldhand the Just indeed!
TheTouchOfFrost
it would be kind of fun if Jon and Jamie swapped Lord Commander posts 🙂
LordDavos,
Indeed! Especially after Jaime ribbed him right at the start of the show about going up there!
I have a funny feeling we may see Jon on the Throne though!
I wasn’t certain exactly what that prophecy entailed, so I did a little research. One aspect it is that it doesn’t necessarily have to be a younger male sibling. It could be a younger female.
When Tywin insisted that Cersei marry Loras, Margaery commented to Cersei that they would then be sisters. Cersei hissed back that she would kill Margaery in her sleep if she ever called her a sister again.
Yet, when Cersei flounced out of Margaery’s dungeon cell, she trilled “goodbye, Sister,” and smirked all the way down the hall. The sister connection has been stressed a few times in the show.
*************************************************************
SPOILER BELOW (where’s that spoiler button we were supposed to have?)
I think that Cersei may deservedly die with Margaery’s hands around her throat, especially if something worse happens to Loras.
TheTouchOfFrost
Yes I think Jon is the most likely scenario. He’s had the most intensive hands on training. He’s the best able to deal with tribal groups. I think he will learn from his mistakes and gather talented people around him like Davos. With Dany the major elephant in the room is she doesn’t have allied loyal dragon riders for the other two. That and her lack of knowledge of Westeros.
Oh crap, I double posted on two threads. so sorry – I made a copy of my text before I pressed post so I didn’t get timed out, and then posted it to a different thread. I thought it was a good theory, but not two threads worth. sorry
Off-Topic Otto,
Don’t think I made it very clear in my original comment but I am under the impression
Hmm too many “all”s there but I can’t think of a better word.
I don’t even think Sarella can save the black hole that is Show Dorne. They really screwed up my favorite house and location.
Yes!!
Pigeon,
Agreed. Sophie Turner and Lena Headey get this sometimes, and it strikes me as so unfair. With Headey it’s because a minority of people are worryingly unable to distinguish between an actor and the character they play. With Turner it’s because some people have a really basic idea of what a ‘strong’ character is, and seem to think the only way to be strong is to go around stabbing or fighting everyone. 😛