Game of Owns: Tell Your Father I’m Here

13 Comments

1. Congratulations on passing $1,000 per month on Patreon. I don’t listen to the podcast, but I hope the monthly special will be great. 🙂

2. Great episode as usual. But Kate, Downton Abbey is horrible.

   Also, Owns for all time to Jaime for being the hero we deserve.

3. Rhaegar was not really a trusted advisor of Aerys.

   By the way, about the secret Targaryen Lannisters (either Jaime/Cersei or Tyrion), the book the World of Ice and Fire practically contradicts the possibility of this being the case, seeing the birth dates of the twins and Tyrion and Aerys’s possible interactions with Joanna.

4. Abyss – you totally should! These guys are the only way I stay sane on my long commutes here in the land of the rising sun. (Japanese radio would have put me to sleep and killed me long ago if not for GOO)

5. I think show Varys and book Varys might end up having different loyaltys given what is being cut from s5. Also did I hear a Blackhawks fan complain about spending so much money on a team that isn’t good? I wouldn’t recommend complaining about that in the hearing of a Leafs fan. They have been blowing enormous amounts of money on that team with nothing to show for it since 1967. Just some prespective.

6. My own goes to Ned Stark’s epic scowl. It scarred Jaime for life and turned him into such a bitter, resentful person that he can’t even defend his past deeds the way a normal person would.

7. hi guyz

   this is my first time on this site and i just downloaded the podcast and i am also gonna subscribe on my iphone

   well kate if u are a downton abbey fan than i am ur friend if u wanna be friends. i have seen the 5th season and i believe u are in america and so u may have watched only 2 epsds by now.

   i have to say this drama is what u call a drama. it defines the genre of drama. GOT can never fully classify as a drama.

   i wanna ask u whao do u think mary should choose as her new partner? i know but just wanna test u.
   and i think u will get a surprise ending to season 5 as far as carson and mrs hughes are concerned

   keep watching

8. bash,

   Yes Kate, how about all that?

9. I disagree about the “Aerys is Tyrion’s father” theory. I never believed in it, and I think that “The World of Ice and Fire” only makes it even less likely. The book hints that Joanna may or may not have had an affair with king Aerys in his youthful pre-crazy days when she was a young lady-in-waiting to queen Rhaella (the only thing that’s 100% is that he was really, really into her), but it makes it absolutely clear that she did not have an affair with Aerys after she married Tywin. Several of the things Kate said are incorrect. Rhaella did not send Joanna away because of how Aerys looked at her – she sent her after Aerys publicly humiliated Joanna and Tywin at their wedding, “joking” that it’s a shame that the “first night” custom had been abolished, and “taking liberties” at the bedding. Since the bedding consists of the men disrobing the bride and making lewd jokes about the upcoming consummation (with the women doing the same for the bridegroom), this probably means Aerys took the opportunity to grope Joanna and probably said exceptionally inappropriate things, too. Tywin was furious, as you’d expect, and Rhaella dismissed Joanna from her service (probably to protect her from Aerys, among other things) and Joanna left the court and went to live in Casterly Rock. That was in 263; in 266, she gave birth to Jaime and Cersei (the timeline makes the other popular theory, that Aerys was their father, impossible).

   The incident Kate referred to was in 172 on the occasion when Tywin and Joanna were present at the anniversary tournament of Aerys’ 10th year on the throne. Aerys did not tell Tywin he wasn’t treating his gorgeous wife well, or anything like that. What he actually did was ask Joanna, in front of everyone, if her breasts “which used to be so high and proud” were ruined from giving a suck to her twins. Tywin tried to resign after this new insult, but Aerys wouldn’t have it. Two notable things: 1) even though he was deliberately being an asshole and trying to insult both her and Tywin, Aerys did not speak as someone who’s seen Joanna since she had given birth to Jaime and Cersei – and before that, they weren’t even in the same location since her wedding; it’s clear they hadn’t seen each other for a long time. And 2) after this incident, why would Joanna ever want to jump into bed with a man who publicly insulted her like that (twice)? Does anyone think Aerys had charmed her with his insult? It’s also not like she had anything to gain from it, either. There’s also no evidence that Tyrion was born 9 months after that. Nobody mentions how much time passed. We just know Tyrion was born the next year (in 173).

   So, the only way TWOAIF supports the theory is by having Joanna and Aerys in the same location at one point roughly in the timespan of Tyrion’s conception (which may also be a few months earlier or later). But the theory entirely rests on the possibility that Aerys raped Joanna, that Joanna hid it from Tywin, and that, for some reason, she decided not to use moon tea to abort the baby when she got pregnant and knew it could be the result of the rape. It “supports” it only if one already really wants to believe that Aerys is Tyrion’s father and is looking for anything that makes it possible. Heck, if we didn’ have Catelyn’s POV, and someone were to propose a theory that Littlefinger was Robb’s real father, you’d find more evidence for that than you’d find for Aerys being Tyrion’s father.

   The TWOAIF info is interesting for other reasons. It shows the development of the complicated relationship between Tywin and Aerys, and how it contributed to Aerys’ descent into madness and paranoia and some of his weirder decisions, as well as Tywin’s growing bitterness because of Aerys’ repeated insults. They started off as best friends, and grew into bitter rivals. Aerys comes off as a very insecure man who felt threatened when he realized that everyone considered Tywin more capable and the one who really rules the kingdom. He also comes off as very jealous and resentful of Tywin because of Joanna, and his continued obsession with her was probably partly because she was “the one who got away” (whether or not she was his lover when they were young and then he couldn’t have her anymore, or she never was) but even more so because he envied Tywin in having such a happy marriage, and having something Aerys wanted. We know that Aerys’ rivalry with Tywin was why he took Jaime into the Kingsguard, so he could take Tywin’s son and heir from him. But I think Aerys’ behavior towards Jaime is still bizarre – keeping him as a hostage would make sense, except keeping an armed man who’s the best swordsman in the realm by your side (without any other Kingsguard around!) doesn’t seem like a good idea – who’s keeping who hostage in that situation? Aerys enjoyed showing that he possessed Jaime now, and even ordered him to kill Tywin for him and expected him to carry out that order. I think that Aerys may have had a Littlefinger-like “I could/should have been your father!” thing going on with Jaime (well, except for the fact that Aerys did not want to literally f*ck Jaime).

10. Seconding what Annara says about the “Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard” theory.

    On the topic of the wildfire hidden under King’s Landing, doesn’t the fact that the pyromancers found some in ACOK – which Tyrion used at the Battle of Blackwater – sort of contradict the theory that Jaime got rid of it all? (How do you even get rid of wildfire? I don’t think we’ve heard of a way to neutralize it.) And what Tyrion used, while impressive, doesn’t seem like it would be enough to burn the entire city. So… is there more still buried under the city? Is that one of GRRM’s Chekhov’s Guns just waiting to go off?

11. bash,

    Yay, welcome to the podcast! I… may have illicitly already acquired all of season 5 and watched it in its entirety. The ending was what I was referring to when I called 2015 The Year Of Mr Carson and Mrs Hughes. I cried like a little baby.

    We are now friends.

12. Excellent show y’all.

    I think Oberyn told that story to Tyrion, in part, to communicate that he’s a nicer, better person than the Lannisters. And he did mean it well. The rest of his conversations (in the book and the show) demonstrate that Oberyn uses very straightforward language, not pulling any punches. I think it has to do with his honesty. I don’t think Oberyn was capable of telling that story in any softer way–it’s just not who he is. But I really think he meant well by it. Also, he was judging Tyrion–it had to be a test of Tyrion’s mettle–if it had been Joffrey, he would have had a fit and demanded Oberyn’s head but Tyrion, acts like it doesn’t bother him and then tries to return tit for tat. So Oberyn takes Tyrion’s measure while he has him alone so it’s the beginning of his maneuvering in King’s Landing.

    Re: Downtown Abbey, I watched up through the end of S3 but

    when Matthew was killed off, it took the wind out of my sails.

    I didn’t even think about it for about 6 months and finally started watching S4 a couple of weeks ago. Am only 4 or 5 episodes in and I’m enjoying it again but not as much as before. Then they just had to

    rape Anna Bates, which royally pissed me off….why can’t they pick on some other character…as if she and Mr. Bates hadn’t suffered enough already ffs

    . I obviously still care about the characters but now there’s more of a sense of dread when I watch it I guess. Oh well…..Seven knows there are tons worse on TV to watch!

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