Long awaited scene filming in Dubrovnik today

There are signs that an exciting and much anticipated scene from ADWD is now being filmed in Dubrovnik, Croatia. The Mountain, played by Thor Bjornsson (aka, the 2014 Strongest Man in the World) posted a picture of Dubrovnik this morning.  In addition Seek New Travel is indicating that Lena Headey and Diana Rigg have been sighted and that security on the location has been cranked up to 11. But never fear, the intrepid fans of GoT always find a way – meaning there are also fan photos and videos floating around out there. There is a video of many extras in the streets of Dubrovnik and in particular a woman dressed as a Septa (see below). Also, a photo that shows Lena Headey as Cersei in the midst of the crowd (after the cut).

More photos and spoilers after the cut!

Here’s the fan photo of a crowded street with an apparently unclothed Cersei being protected by the crew using umbrellas. You might have to zoom in to see it clearly.

The Sullied among us know that these are excellent signs that Cersei’s Walk of Shame is being filmed right NOW in the streets of Old Dubrovnik!

313 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. The walk was one of those scenes in the book that felt to me like social commentary, a widow being persecuted for having sexual relations; to me just seems horrifying even the most powerful woman in westeros can be crushed under the fist of a patriarchal society, and don’t even get me started on what Cersei’s internalised misogyny has already done to her psyche….

      it’s going to be a hard scene to watch.

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    2. Marsha Green,

      agreed, I think it was GRRM trying to show that as tyrannical, rich and villainous as Cersei maybe. at the end of the day, she is just a woman who is susceptible to sexual abuse like any other woman in Westeros.

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    3. Interesting that Gregor’s actor is the one who posted photos.

      I think the Kingsguard is going to be getting a new member…

      Also, I figure that the Septa shown in the video is likely the Septa Unella who was announced in the earlier casting call.

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    4. The septas makes you feel more uncomfortable and angry !!! Women are supposed to have each others back you old bxysuesjjsheudhwwaaaa !!!!

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    5. Lady Nym,

      One of the most uncomfortable moments in AFFC for me was this:

      “Cersei ran to the altar of the Mother, but they caught her there, a score of them, and dragged her kicking up the tower steps. Inside the cell three silent sisters held her down as a septa named Scolera stripped her bare. She even took her small clothes”.

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    6. aurane waters:
      Lady Nym,

      One of the most uncomfortable moments in AFFC for me was this:

      “Cersei ran to the altar of the Mother, but they caught her there, a score of them, and dragged her kicking up the tower steps. Inside the cell three silent sisters held her down as a septa named Scolera stripped her bare. She even took her small clothes”.

      I hate Cersie even more in the books yet when I was reading these chapters I really had uncomfortable feelings and I just wanted the chapter to be over ,

      I know lena is okay with doing nude scenes but this one is diffrent I can’t imagne how she feels right now standing and doing this scene among this big crowd

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    7. Lady Nym,

      the WOS chapter is physically difficult to read for me, only the red wedding chapter comes close to the physical uncomfortableness as the WOS

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    8. aurane waters,

      I don’t think so, that looks exactly like Septa Mordane’s costume from season 1. Granted, Ollena wears fairly Septa-ish clothes but they were always a little different. Also, Unella (which we know is getting cast) was present throughout the duration of the Walk. I can see why people would confuse her with Olenna and say that they spotted Diana Rigg, though.

      Interesting that Thor is in Croatia. I bet he has one cameo scene this season. I’m happy that they didn’t make him Frankenstein and just had Qyburn heal him before he died.

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    9. aurane waters:
      Jordan,

      no the woman in the video is Olenna/Dianna Rigg

      That lady doesn’t look like Diana Rigg. That face in the distance looks younger.

      Although TBH the Olenna garb and the septa garb are pretty much indistinguishable to me.

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    10. I think it is a Septa – the costume is on the drab side for Lady Olenna. Fjordgazer I’m editing my post as you posted yours seconds before mine and there is some overlap.

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    11. jentario:

      What does it make you think that “Half Thor” isn’t appearing with his face out of sight this season? For all we know, they’re keeping his fate exactly as in the books.

      Beside, what is wrong with Qyburn-stein. I liked it. If it’s because it’s too “cartoonish” or “comic-book-y”, well, i’m tired of these overused expressions. If it’s because it’s overused, well, dragons are as well.

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    12. There is no reason for someone like Olena Tyrel to do the septa’s job with the bell

      And Thor might yet be

      frankenstained by Qybern

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    13. Wow, it even looks like they went through with cutting Cersei’s hair! I was wondering if they would.

      I’m not really looking forward to this scene, less with my more mixed emotions toward show-Cersei. I know Lena Headey is going to knock it out of the park, though. She always does.

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    14. I really hope they approach this scene in a sensible way. We don’t need another shitstorm like the one after the botched sept scene

      But done right it will be amazing, that’s one of the best ADWD chapters

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    15. It’s hard to make out, but can anyone confirm if they shaved her head? I definitely still see some yellow hair up there, so I don’t thinks she’s 100% bald. Maybe they just cut most of it off and left her with a messy short cut?

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    16. aurane waters,

      Same here. I felt so conflicted the first time I read it because I had little sympathy for Cersei, but still, the Walk was very unsettling. Both looking forward to and dreading the scene. I’m sure they’ll do it justice by making us all cringe while watching.

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    17. I’m still waiting for “Long Awaited Scene Filmed in Northern Ireland” to pop up with news of

      Wyman Manderly

      spotted on set.

      Frey Pies

      for season 5 or we riot!

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    18. Renly’s Peach,

      It’s a very common measure to leave a very short and sloppy haircut on a character instead of a complete bald head when this is the original intent. We’ve seen it before countless times, so i wouldn’t be surprised.

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    19. aurane waters:
      Lady Nym,

      the WOS chapter is physically difficult to read for me, only the red wedding chapter comes close to the physical uncomfortableness as the WOS

      The same two for me as well.

      The only other scene that made me uncomfortable was the Loras/Renly shave off. Why must D&D always shave it off???? Hair. Give me a head of hair. Long beautiful hair. Shining. Gleaming. Steaming. Flaxen. Waxen. Give me down to there hair. Shoulder length or longer hair. Here baby, there, momma, everywhere, daddy. Daddy. Hair hair hair hair hair hair hair hair. Flow it. Show it. Long as I can grow it.

      My hair.

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    20. I don’t believe Diana Rigg is in Croatia. I think people who thought to have seen her just confuse her with extras who wear similar clothing like her. This has especially to do with the elaborate headdress she has but which can also be seen on a number of other women since season 4.

      The walk is going to be the peak of this season for me. When I read it I found it far more shocking than what happens in Mereen and at the wall at the end of book 5. Perhaps this is because, as someone else pointed out, because it is a fine example of the place of women in a patriarchal society. It is also very realistic and has some relevance and parallels to this day.

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    21. jentario,

      Please quit trolling sir.

      I get it and I understand that in Dorne the norm is to shave it all. However, this is Kings Landing, not Dorne. We need furries. Like mine.

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    22. I don’t see where Cersei is… Maybe WOTW techies should install an image annotation plugin for wordpress (there are many out there) so contributors and commenters can post notes on photos?

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    23. Marsha Green,

      Not saying I completely disagree but the impression I got when I read affc was the punishment had nothing to do with the crime. Kind of like Al Capone going down for tax evasion… At the end of the day that’s the excuse to pursue action but in an unspoken fashion everybody knows what they’re REALLY being persecuted for.

      Also I don’t think HS is as pious as he lets on. I think there’s an allegiance there, so I might be biased.

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    24. I was really hoping Cersei’s walk would be cut because I don’t trust D&D to do right by that scene. Not one bit.

      But oh well, here we go.

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    25. FunnyShae:
      I was really hoping Cersei’s walk would be cut because I don’t trust D&D to do right by that scene. Not one bit.

      Why? They’ve done every big scene from the books right. The smaller scenes get usually all the criticism (deserved or not).

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    26. WeirwoodTreeHugger: Yes to all of this. I’m really not looking forward to all the misogynistic commentary about how she deserved it that will show up online.

      That’s the brilliance of the scene, at least for me. IMO, Cersei basically deserves whatever she gets, after all the horrendous things she has done and set into motion. As I was reading it, at the beginning, I was kind of cheering to see her stripped (pardon the pun) of all her dignity and humiliated. However, by the end of it, I was actually feeling for her. It was a slow shift from, “yeah, tear her down,” to, “Oh, god, what a horrible, horrible thing.”

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    27. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      considering that sooooo many thought she deserved to get raped by jaime and that she “manipulated” jaime into raping her, the comments about this are going to be inevitably disgusting. so i’ve accepted that by now, i’m more worried about how D&D will portray it. the main emphasis of this scene should be Cersei’s emotions……. not her body. We need closeups of Cersei’s face, not her boobs….

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    28. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      I know, I can just picture it now, it’s going to be so disheartening but will just prove that westeros is really just an exaggerated warped version of our own society and it’s values, which in my opinion is what GRRM was going for – what happens when we go to far…

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    29. Mine is the Furry,
      Here’s one way to think about it….Was Joffrey punished/hurt in a way that specifically had to do with his gender and society’s perception of how he should act in accordance with his gender? No. Was Cersei? Absolutely.

      Cersei deserves punishment but I would rather she had been poisoned like Joffrey or hurt in some non-gender specific way. However, I still think it’s brilliant of GRRM to do it the way he did. The social message is that no matter how powerful a woman is, a patriarchal society can still humiliate and punish her (imagine Dany having to live like Cersei with all those restrictions). The effect of society on personalities both great and small is a big theme in GRRM’s works.

      The genius of it is that it makes us (or at least some of us) actually feel somewhat sorry for a character that we originally despised. And to be honest, I always felt a little sorry for her because of how traumatized she already was by her being female in such a male dominated society. The idea that she desperately wanted to be Jamie, to be her Father’s heir and sit on the throne herself twisted her into a really hateful and scheming person. She bears a huge part of the blame for who she has become of course but Westerosi society certainly played a role in it.

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    30. Mine is the Furry,

      Joffrey was killed for the danger he presented to others and their plans (Littlefinger and Olena’s concern for Marg), Cersei is being publicly ridiculed because she’s the widow of a king who dared to have sex (that’s the reason given in the book – your mileage may vary) so yes I would say this is misogyny at play, I don’t think a widower of a queen would get the same treatment.

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    31. I’m really surprised to see in the photos that there are people standing on top of the city walls during all this. I hope Lena is appropriate protected as well as the body double we heard they were casting- must be tough to film!

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    32. Marsha Green,

      agreed i especially loved this part:

      “One of the novices had brought a robe for her, a soft white septa’s robe to cover her as she made her way down the tower steps and through the sept, so any worshipers they met along the way might be spared the sight of naked flesh. Seven save us all, what hypocrites they are”.

      you can tell how GRRM feels just by some of Cersei’s commentary imo

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    33. Mine is the Furry,

      She wasn’t punished for her actual crimes, or at least not wholly. She was punished in part for things that shouldn’t even be crimes, things that come from a patriarchal society trying to control women; also, the form in which she was punished was all about female humiliation (cutting her hair, stripping her naked.) If you can’t see how that is a demonstration of the incredibly misogynistic society of Westeros, I don’t know what to tell you.

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    34. Marsha Green,

      Technically speaking, I can see how some people think she deserved the humiliation in the books. The problem is that while it was a punishment that arguably befits her crimes, the reason she was punished was misoginist and horrible. And just like Theon, the fact that she is a horrible person and that some people want to see her suffer won’t make it an actually easier scene to watch- because it really is a horrible punishment (whether or not you think Cersei deserves this for all the horrible things she did in the books). In the show, she hasn’t really done that many bad things- Joffrey took over for most of them- (though I guess she might do some no-nos in season 5), so it’s hard to say she deserves it. And in any case, the punishment definitely doesn’t fit the “crimes” she was placed there for and I doubt anyone who says she deserves it thinks that.

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    35. LukaNieto

      Yes , but viewers will cheer to see her fall, regardless of how it is in the book and it doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be misogynistic.

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    36. I can’t wait to see the reaction to this scene when it airs. it’s going to be really interesting.

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    37. Marsha Green:
      WeirwoodTreeHugger,
      I know, I can just picture it now, it’s going to be so disheartening but will just prove that westeros is really just an exaggerated warped version of our own society and it’s values, which in my opinion is what GRRM was going for – what happens when we go too far…

      I concur.

      I also want to extend that line of thought to the crowd watching her, judging her. The ignorant masses rarely know details behind the bitter truth behind public scandal, yet they do not hesitate to cast mud and stones at the fallen ones. Will her shame be about her conspiracy against Marg/Loras, her sexual behavior as a “mourning” widow, her incestuous relationship with Jaime and their false heirs to the throne, or about her treatment of the common folk? It will be quite interesting and riveting how that plays out.

      In any case, I think it is time we whitewash Cersei. 🙂

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    38. Mine is the Furry,

      I completely disagree. D&D have made mistakes, but I very much doubt they’ll fail to notice and recreate the moral complexity of the scene. Why? Mostly because, particularly in latter seasons, they have written Cersei to be much, much more sympathetic than in the books. Considering that, I cannot imagine D&D would write or let Nutter direct the walk as “Cersei getting her comeuppance.” She’s done terrible things, but I’m sure we’ll see the scene from her point of view, as much as this can be done without narration. Some people will of course notice none of this and indeed think of the event as “Cersei getting her comeuppance”, but I don’t think most people will be that thick.

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    39. LukaNieto,

      Its possible considering how likable and sympathetic she is on the show. However, I still think the casual viewer will view it as redemption.

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    40. All very insightful comments re- the impacts of a patriarchal, broadly oppressive society on all women, regardless of their ‘status’. The whole power structure is focused on men and what they want to gain (typically, more power), and women are typically treated as mere tools to acquire these gains. When they act “out of line” they are shamed for it, like children, made to feel vulnerable and powerless, to remind them of their “place”. And yet, men seek them out when *they* feel vulnerable and powerless, and it’s the women who bear the sons in the first place… he certainly creates a vivid mirror of our own world, in the end it’s not really exaggerated at all, the kind of brutality depicted is still taking place on a daily basis in many places worldwide, and in most of these places it’s the women that suffer more than anyone else, due to their “place” in society which is dictated by their birth, something they had no control over. Anyway.

      I interpreted the scene in episode 10 as indicating that the Robert Strong plotline will definitely be featured (not the mention the presence of the actor in Crotia). Qyburn didn’t seem to be healing him at all, in fact he said “the process… may change him”. Cersei then asked, “will it weaken him?” to which Qyburn replied “no”. They don’t come right out and say it of course, but the implication is pretty clear.

      edit – Can’t get the spoiler tags to work for some reason.

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    41. RE the Robert Strong stuff, my inclination due to a combination of Qyburn’s comments as well as Cersei being more sympathetic on the show (and probably also the tendency to somewhat “tone down” fantastic elements) is that while he will still be the result of unspecified dark magic, there won’t be that element of creating him via Human Centipede.

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    42. jentario,

      Am I missing something? This did happen, and more directly than in the books, even though it was less patently magical (which I appreciate.) Qyburn didn’t just “cure” the Mountain. He said he could “save him”, but that the process would “change him.” Cersei only cares if this change will weaken him, and Qyburn answers “no” with a creepy smirk. I very much doubt Clegane will be headless in the show, if that is indeed what happened in the books (it’s only a theory; the head Balon Swann took to Dorne could be from any other big man), but he’ll certainly be different from who he was. An obedient Frankenstein monster sounds about right, except probably without any on-your-face magical mumbo-jumbo. In the show, Qyburn has not been accused of black magic but only of immoral experiments. He’s a medieval Josef Mengele.

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    43. Some people will partially feel sorry for her because of the sexist nature of the punishment. But in general, it will be cheered for. Show-only people like Tyrion and the Starks too much, and if that’s not enough, during Joffrey’s wedding (at the height of her happiness) she prevented Margaery from doing social charity with the food leftovers, just for the sake of her own personal beef with her. So no, it will not be mysoginistic if the scene has an upbeat reception, regardless of what the PC police says.

      This is for show-Cersei. The case for book-Cersei is so straightforward that it doesn’t deserve mention.

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    44. Fjordgazer,

      yep,
      unfortunately i agree that the scene will have an upbeat reception. thats why i only care about how it will be portrayed. its one thing for viewers to revel in it…….but will D&D revel in it because they want to put her “in her place”.

      i’m sorry but I have very little trust in D&D for getting this scene right considering how badly they fucked up the sept scene

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    45. aurane waters,

      Sigh. Yes. They fucked up that scene. Also, they have made Cersei a much more sympathetic, rational and less horrible human being than in the books. Joffrey, and not her, ordered the massacre of Robert’s bastards in the show, and in fact Cersei felt ashamed for her son because of it. She has not only realized but admitted Joffrey was horrible (no, not only to Margeary in order to bring the Tyrells to her side for Tyrion’s trial), while in the books she’s always thinking how wonderful the boy was and negatively comparing Tommen to Joffrey, time and time again. She’s like a horrible version of a child Sansa; just as naïve and clueless, but in a cruel way. Compare that to her portrayal in the show.

      Considering all of that… no, I don’t think D&D will write the event as Cersei getting what she deserves, even if many fans see it that way. The ironic element will be there, of course; the reinvigorated Faith taking Cersei down when she was the one who gave them their power back. However, we’ve been shown a more heartfelt character in the show thus far, and I don’t see why this will not go on with the Walk and everything that surrounds it.

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    46. LukaNieto,

      Yes, and I’m fine with that. But if the show went so far as to abolish resurrections with LS then they better not go through with it with the Mountain. The way I see it, Show Gregor never died- he was very close to death, but Qyburn scavenged what he could (which is essentially just the physical ability and the obedience) using the medical methods he learned while experimenting on people. I don’t think the Mountain’s head will be sent to Dorne in the show, for instance. At best, Cersei will announce that he’s dead to please Dorne.

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    47. So no, it will not be mysoginistic if the scene has an upbeat reception, regardless of what the PC police says.

      A scene’s reception is not the standard by which misogyny is judged, thank all the gods that be. The punishment and what she is being punished for is misogyny and it has nothing to do with her real crimes. That’s just a lovely irony that GRRM is using to put readers and watchers into this exact moral conundrum that we are discussing. He wants us to enjoy watching her being punished because she is mostly evil but he also wants us to feel weird about it because what she is being punished for isn’t her real or worst crimes and the punishment is made specifically to humiliate her as a female. He wants us to feel conflicted. If D&D do the scene correctly we as watchers (if we’ve been paying attention) should feel conflicted as well. But that has nothing to do with the fact that it is, without a doubt, misogyny.

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    48. LukaNieto,

      Idk I guess I’m just not sure why the Faith would arrest her in the place since there’s no Kettleblack, so who is going to kill the high septon for her?? Also considering how tiny that street is, I think they’re going to focus more on the commonfolk insulting her than her emotional breakdown. D&D don’t exactly have a great track record with getting complex scenes with female characters right, so you can’t blame me for being pessimistic.

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    49. jentario,

      Oh, with that I agree. He never died in the show.

      aurane waters,

      Hm, I’m afraid I can, because I don’t agree with your reasons for being pessimistic. There have been failings, but also improvements, such as the ones that I mentioned. You don’t agree? That’s fine, and I won’t tell you to. Likewise, please don’t tell me to “not blame you for being pessimistic”, since I don’t agree at all with your reasons for it. As I see it, Cersei has gotten a much better treatment in the show than in the books. Even if you are pessimistic about the portrayal of female characters, if you agree that Cersei has been depicted as “less cartoon evil”, I hope you can see why D&D won’t do what you fear.

      King DBC,

      Oh, right. So now, saying that there is social commentary about misogyny in a scene about a woman being publicly shamed for “sexual crimes” is tantamount to the crazy stuff that the worst Tumblr SJWs say. Right.

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    50. LukaNieto,

      I disagree, Book!Cersei is far more interesting than Show!Cersei. for one at least GRRM didn’t have the man that she loves rape her and then say it “became consensual in the end”. and at least GRRM didn’t reduce her to the role of The Mother. Book!Cersei has far more facets than Show!Cersei.

      It’s fine that we don’t agree but the way that D&D try to make the viewers sympathetic to the female characters is by toning down the aspects of them that the majority of dudebro audience dislike (see Catelyn crying over how mean she’s been to Jon Snow)

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    51. Johnny,

      More like 10-12. And I highly doubt the High Septon gives a shit what Tommen or anyone at court thinks. Attacking the Faith and the citizens of King’s Landing (who mostly follow it blindly) would definitely not be smart after the Faith Militiant is set up.

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    52. Dame Pasty,

      I’m fine with people questioning D&D’s intentions and comparing theirs with GRRM’s. The spotlight is theirs to contend with. But if PC police and feminists start to call viewers who express to find the scene upbeat “potential rapists”, “misogynistic pigs” and other beauties, then i have a problem with that.

      Oh well, i’m having this discusion again…

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    53. aurane waters,

      Catelyn was feeling guilty in AGOT, so it’s not out of character. She was crying because she was in a fragile emotional place (her two sons are presumed dead, you know) and she did what everyone does when they grieve- blame herself. So she made up a ridiculous excuse why it’s all her fault. I personally loved that scene. Catelyn wasn’t redeemed for her spite towards Jon since she admits she could and will never love him. Loved that scene, and Michelle was fucking snubbed. Damn you Emmys!

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    54. aurane waters:
      LukaNieto,

      It’s fine that we don’t agree but the way that D&D try to make the viewers sympathetic to the female characters is by toning down the aspects of them that the majority of dudebro audience dislike (see Catelyn crying over how mean she’s been to Jon Snow)

      To me, this is a perfect example of interpretation being in the eye of the beholder. I didn’t view Catelyn’s regret over her treatment of Jon Snow as a means of toning down an aspect of her personality “dudebro’s” may not like. I saw her regret in that scene stemming from the fact she believed everything bad which had happened to the Starks being a direct result of her breaking her vow to love Jon Snow, if they let him recover from the pox (I think it was, I may be remembering the disease incorrectly). It was less about what the vow was (to love Jon Snow), than the fact she broke it.

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    55. jentario,

      Many people thought Cat’s reasons for blaming herself were ridiculous, but she’s a religious person. She thinks gods do that kind of thing. Plenty people think like that in real life, even if it’s just a vague belief in something like “karma” (“what goes around comes around”, “you reap what you sow”.) I’m as atheist as they come, and I don’t easily empathize with this mindset, but it’s nor ridiculous for her to think like he does, considering her worldview.

      aurane waters,

      Sorry, but I just don’t see the “dudebro” thing. At all. In fact, I’d argue pretty much the opposite, actually, but okay. Also, if the rape blunder is your only reason for thinking this way (it’s your only example, and repeated once and again, aside from Cat’s, which I find ridiculous), I feel sorry for your GoT experience. There has been plenty of exciting and positive characterization of women and everyone in the show. Doesn’t that outweigh these mistakes?

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    56. Fjordgazer,

      You are absolutely right. The viewers who will cheer at Cersei’s downfall will be cheering because of all of Cersei’s scenes, not just because she slept around. Though to be honest, we really don’t know what Cersei will be punished for in the show, which crimes the Sparrows will uncover. If Lancel isn’t back, it’ll probably be different from the books.

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    57. Dame Pasty,

      I didnt feel one ounce of remorse when I read that scene. I actually got turned on. I hadn’t felt that sort of horny since I read Terry Goodkind.

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    58. jentario: And just like Theon, the fact that she is a horrible person and that some people want to see her suffer won’t make it an actually easier scene to watch-

      A really good point of comparison. If there is another character who is punished in a very “gender-specific” way, it is Theon. And that punishment, too, does not fit the crime.

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    59. LukaNieto,

      True, actually. I just don’t have that mindset, I guess. In any case, I don’t think Catelyn is stupid, just that she rushed to blame herself out of grief.

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    60. I can see the Walk being received somewhat similarly to Joffrey’s death, if it’s done right. At first you saw the villain, one of the main antagonists of the show, getting what he deserved… but then you realised you were watching a 15 year old boy choke to death in his mother’s arms.

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    61. Ser Florian,

      lol I don’t remember anyone having any sort of conflicting feelings about Joffrey’s death. people were thrilled that joffrey died (and many thought that he didn’t die painfully enough mind you) and were also glad to see cersei suffer.

      either way since no one felt sympathy for cersei when she was raped by jaime…and the only concern was that Jaime’s redemption arc was ruined, no way people are going to feel sympathy for her in this scene……which i’ve accepted by now. hence my only concern is the portrayal

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    62. Greatjon of Slumber: A really good point of comparison. If there is another character who is punished in a very “gender-specific” way, it is Theon. And that punishment, too, does not fit the crime.

      You’re making me hungry.

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    63. It’s not even aired yet and I’m already bored of the over-analysis of the walk scene…not that that’s gonna stop me joing in!
      People who somehow think they are more qualified to direct/produce a scene than those who are doing it need to have a serious think. Yet again I wonder whether there would be this much discussion if it was a male character? No one batted an eyelid when Theon had little Theon chopped off. Oh and remember the wine seller who was stripped naked and made to walk with the Khalisar until he died? Why are these any less horrific than what happens to Cersei?

      I’ll use spoilers seeing as everyone else has abandoned them! In my opinion Cersei got off very lightly. If I had the choice of walking naked in front of a crowd to “pay” for the bad karma I’d built up then I’d take it in a heartbeat over poisoning, mutilation, torture or some sort of death that other characters who “had it coming” got.

      Is it the act of a misogynistic society? Yeah, of course it is but why are we getting upset about that in a fantasy-based show? Beheading people and sticking wolves on their bodies, posioning, chopping off body parts, cannibalism, slavery, killing people and animal cruelty aren’t things we approve of in our society yet no one seems to care when they happen in the show.
      For me, despite the misogyny, it’s a poetic punishment for her as the only real part of her that takes a hit is her pride something she displayed in abundance with her cut-throat manouvering to solidify her status. It’s kind of like Jaime with his hand. The hand represented his pride and what he valued most. When it was removed he was humbled. He , arguably, reacted to this humbling in a relatively positive way. It will be interesting going forward to see whether Cersei reacts in a similar fashion or whether she becomes even more bitter.

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    64. aurane waters,

      This is the legacy of Christopher Nolan and his Batman movies. I talked about it in an earlier comment: people overusing expressions like “comic-book-y” or “cartoonish” for characters who aren’t oh so rife with mental conflicts and are more-or-less straightforward villains.

      Makes me cringe…

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    65. TheTouchOfFrost:
      It’s not even aired yet and I’m already bored of the over-analysis of the walk scene…not that that’s gonna stop me joing in!People who somehow think they are more qualified to direct/produce a scene than those who are doing it need to have a serious think. Yet again I wonder whether there would be this much discussion if it was a male character? No one batted an eyelid when Theon had little Theon chopped off. Oh and remember the wine seller who was stripped naked and made to walk with the Khalisar until he died? Why are these any less horrific than what happens to Cersei?

      Is it the actof a misogynistic society? Yeah, of course it is but why are we getting upset about that in a fantasy-based show? Beheading people and sticking wolves on their bodies, posioning, chopping off body parts, cannibalism, slavery, killing people and animal cruelty aren’t things we approve of in our society yet no one seems to care when they happen in the show.For me, despite the misogyny, it’s a poetic punishment for her as the only real part of her that takes a hit is her pride something she displayed in abundance with her cut-throat manouvering to solidify her status. It’s kind of like Jaime with his hand. The hand represented his pride and what he valued most. When it was removed he was humbled. He , arguably, reacted to this humbling in a relatively positive way. It will be interesting going forward to see whether Cersei reacts in a similar fashion or whether she becomes even more bitter.

      Testify brother!

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    66. Johnny:
      How on earth is a 16 year old King Tommen going to allow the faith do this to his mother?

      He’s probably already occupied playing with Ser Pounce

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    67. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      That’s not what i said at all. I just said, don’t judge the viewer because he likes seeing the character being punished. It’s like saying people who wish Stalin or Josef Mengele hadn’t gotten off so lightly are bad for feeling so.

      TheTouchOfFrost said it best.

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    68. I’m stoked for the walk scene. I want it to be uncomfortable… for Cersei! 😀 Also I hope they didn’t just crop her hair. I think it would be more shocking to have it all off. Also I can’t help but have this video come to mind when I think of how Lena Headey might handle doing the walk. lol She seems like she would be a good sport about it all.

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    69. Lady Nym:
      do you think they will but the rains of castamere music on this scene ?

      Not directly related to your comment, but i really think it’s imperative that they increase the song repertoire for the show. The Dornishman’s Wife would be fitting. Rains can be played and referenced only so much.

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    70. The misogyny issue comes up because things like cannabalism and mutilation aren’t issues people deal with on a daily basis in modern first world society. Cersei deserves punishment. She’s done horrible things. But she isn’t punished for having people killed, tortured, and starting a war. She’s punished for being a sexually active woman. It’s not justice, it’s just sad, and despite everything it makes me feel sympathy for her.

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    71. Fjordgazer,

      no its not like the stalin and mengele comparison at all because cersei is FICTIONAL. while stalin and mengele were monsters who are responsible for the pain and death of living breathing human beings.

      for fucks sake, can we please stop comparing fictional fucking characters to real life monsters…it downplays real life human tragedies.

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    72. BrightroarsBane:
      The misogyny issue comes up because things like cannabalism and mutilation aren’t issues people deal with on a daily basis in modern first world society. Cersei deserves punishment. She’s done horrible things. But she isn’t punished for having people killed, tortured, and starting a war. She’s punished for being a sexually active woman. It’s not justice, it’s just sad, and despite everything it makes me feel sympathy for her.

      This is it. Let’s leave it at that and reopen Walkgate when the scene actually airs

        Quote  Reply

    73. aurane waters:
      Fjordgazer,

      no its not like the stalin and mengele comparison at all because cersei is FICTIONAL. while stalin and mengele were monsters who are responsible for the pain and death of living breathing human beings.

      for fucks sake, can we please stop comparing fictional fucking characters to real life monsters…it downplays real life human tragedies.

      It doesn’t downplay anything FFS. If you can’t separate fiction from reality, but at the same time feel moved by fictional events which reflect on reality, you’re a moron (not directed at you BTW).

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    74. BrightroarsBane,

      You said it best.

      Also, I think we should just shut up about this until we have some more information about the scene… or, you know, until the episode actually airs and all our opinions are informed on facts.

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    75. jentario:
      aurane waters,

      Catelyn was feeling guilty in AGOT, so it’s not out of character. She was crying because she was in a fragile emotional place (her two sons are presumed dead, you know) and she did what everyone does when they grieve- blame herself. So she made up a ridiculous excuse why it’s all her fault. I personally loved that scene. Catelyn wasn’t redeemed for her spite towards Jon since she admits she could and will never love him. Loved that scene, and Michelle was fucking snubbed. Damn you Emmys!

      Agreed. I love that scene. Because if we’re talking about real human beings and not psychopaths like Joffrey, this is a true reaction. There’s no way that a person – no matter how betrayed they feel by their spouse – could not spare, for at least even a moment, a warm thought for a baby, particularly one that was sick. And so the idea that she would promise the gods, somehow, to heal a child that had not wronged her, is not out of character, nor is it that her heart “hardened,” if we’re going to get all Ten Commandments here, and she returned to her original thought and position, and distaste for this child.

      I love that scene.

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    76. Book C deserved it. Poor poor Osprey Kettleblack.

      Show C is a cute little drunk bunny rabbit. I may shed a tear.

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    77. I have no problems at gloating at the demise of a villainous fictional character >:-). I’m lookin forward to this scene

        Quote  Reply

    78. Fjordgazer,

      I can separate fiction from reality….that’s why I don’t feel the need to compare fictional character to actually existing monstrous human beings in order to make a point.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Turncloak:
      I have no problems at gloating at the demise of a villainous fictional character >:-). I’m lookin forward to this scene

      As simple as that, and this will be my argument from here on until the episode airs. Then, i’ll join the pointless, absurd discussion as every sod out there 😉

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    80. aurane waters:
      Fjordgazer,

      I can separate fiction from reality….that’s why I don’t feel the need to compare fictional character to actually existing monstrous human beings in order to make a point.

      The comparison is valid AS LONG as you’re able to separate fiction from reality, so your point is a non-sequitur. Other than that, you’re pointing out an “etiquette” or “sensibility” issue, which i don’t care for. In addition, if fictional characters can’t be used to discuss moral, social and anthropological stuff, why on earth do so many people worship the Bible and Jesus Christ as codes for life and behavior?

      Oh, now i let my atheistic side slide in. I’m gonna make a LOT of friends in this community 😀

      Cheers!

        Quote  Reply

    81. Fjordgazer: As simple as that, and this will be my argument from here on until the episode airs. Then, i’ll join the pointless, absurd discussion as every sod out there

      Lol ur absolutely right ! I probably will chime in to as if Cersei was actually a real person 🙂

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    82. Fjordgazer,

      I don’t know how you do it, but you manage to miss the point every single time. I don’t care if you’re a damn atheist, but comparing a fictional character to a real life tyrant is fucked up and stupid. it’s even worse than the morons who jump and compare current real life politicians to Hitler. You can continue on with your opinion, and I’m continue on with my opinion that you’re an arrogant and pretentious idiot. freedom of speech and all. bye.

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    83. Fjordgazer: That’s not what i said at all. I just said, don’t judge the viewer because he likes seeing the character being punished. It’s like saying people who wish Stalin or Josef Mengele hadn’t gotten off so lightly are bad for feeling so.

      I doubt people want to see Mengele and Stalin naked.

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    84. no no no no no.. Lets not end this debate.this is far more entertaining than sitting around talking about who’s outfit looks like what and what this guys doingand why these colors don’t look right for this Scene blah blah blah blah

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    85. OT: I’m pretty sure the direcor is David Nutter which begs the question wether he only has blue shirts or not.

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    86. aurane waters:
      Fjordgazer,

      I don’t know how you do it, but you manage to miss the point every single time. I don’t care if you’re a damn atheist, but comparing a fictional character to a real life tyrant is fucked up and stupid. it’s even worse than the morons who jump and compare current real life politicians to Hitler. You can continue on with your opinion, and I’m continue on with my opinion that you’re an arrogant and pretentious idiot. bye.

      I don’t know why it’s fucked up to compare a fictional character to a real one, and i don’t know why it’s fucked up to compare Hitler to current politicians. Since you’re so close-minded, could anyone else enlighten me on that? Like i said, other than a “sensibility” argument (the old “it’s disrespectful to utter the word ‘Hitler’ lightly because of all the victims of the Holocaust”), then your point is nonsense.

      Now go take your pills.

        Quote  Reply

    87. BrightroarsBane:
      The misogyny issue comes up because things like cannabalism and mutilation aren’t issues people deal with on a daily basis in modern first world society. Cersei deserves punishment. She’s done horrible things. But she isn’t punished for having people killed, tortured, and starting a war. She’s punished for being a sexually active woman. It’s not justice, it’s just sad, and despite everything it makes me feel sympathy for her.

      I’ll make love to this comment later on!

      Fjordgazer:
      I’m gonna make a LOT of friends in this community

      It takes everyone to make a community. Don’t worry about making friends. We might disagree today, but we might agree tomorrow. As long as you don’t start calling people “arogant and pretentious stupid”, and attacking the poster instead of the post, I don’t see the problem!

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    88. jentario,

      smh if you want to insult people at least use good ones. i was the one who called out “mine is the furry” for being a troll for the pubes comment in the first place.

      anyways i’m done with this argument because its pretty much like talking to a brick wall. the WOS is a controversial scene and will always be a controversial scene and some people will just remain stupid etc etc

      this is my last comment in this post, i’m over it

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    89. Turncloak: Lol ur absolutely right ! I probably will chime in to as if Cersei was actually a real person

      LOL, like in the arguably-a-rape scene last season, right?

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    90. One thing that really chaps my ass is taking villains and then showing them in a way that generates sympathy. Fuck Wicked. Fuck Maleficent. Fuck Vader. Fuck Jaime. And Fuck Cersei.

      Well maybe not Jaime he only attempted to kill a child.

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    91. Strider:

      Don’t worry. There are places to be PC (like work), but internet isn’t one of them. I’ll state my opinions as they are, as respectfully as i can and avoiding pathetic ad-hominems. In fact, i’m feeling a little sorry for the “take your pill” remark, but can you blame a fella…

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    92. BrightroarsBane,

      But they are issues that exist in the world. Female Genital Mutilation is still widely practiced in parts of Asia and Africa ( so is Male Genital Mutilation if you view Jewish traditions that way), as is beheading, animal cruelty and killing of all descriptions. So because these don’t affect us directly it’s ok subject matter? Yet this example of extreme misogyny (the walk) is somehow worse because first world women experience lesser incidents of misogyny? I understand when you say this is why it comes up but I don’t agree with it. People need to seperate a show from reality. My dad died from problems caused by smoking. Doesn’t mean I start raging whenever a programme shows people smoking ( and presenting it in a cool manner).

      I think the main crime she was charged with was the murder of the High Septon so it wasn’t purely for adultery.

      Again, today’s values are being put onto a character from a fantasy based on medieval times! Yes, to some degree she is being punished for breaking marital vows, but people used to be killed for less! If that makes you feel sad then fair play but I feel more sorry ( as I can be for fictional characters) for those who have lost their lives or been through worse things than a nude walk (which again if we look at it from a karmic “justice” point of view is nothing in comparison to the things she’s done). It’s interesting to look at different people’s roles in this fantasy but when people start getting emotional and aggressive towards the makers then it’s time they took a step back. If you don’t like the story or the world it’s happening in then stop watching. Personally, I think one of the reasons there are such good female roles in this show is because no punches are pulled and the things they go through make them into the interesting characters that they are.

      jentario,

      You’ve got a point. They’ll be plenty of this when it airs. People (possibly myself included) are getting pre-angry.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Fjordgazer: LOL, like in the arguably-a-rape scene last season, right?

      Ughh don’t remind me. Well the show took a lot of heat for that scene so I won’t expect another huge contreversy next season. We’ll see

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    94. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      I disagree. Cersei deserved the Walk and much more.
      She’s a terrible person on almost every facet of her personality, and none of it is somehow excused because of an attack against her sexuality. And she’s not some beaming feminist figure either, this is the same woman that publicly whipped another innocent woman and was absolutely delighted about what Tywin did to his father’s whore. Which is, more or less, the exact same thing that happens to her.

      It’s karmic justice in every regard.

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    95. Dragonslayer: Why? They’ve done every big scene from the books right. The smaller scenes get usually all the criticism (deserved or not).

      We’ll have to agree to disagree on that regard. For me, their treatment of Cersei as a character has been extremely poor, inconsistent and their track record when it comes to the way they present female nudity is troublesome at best.

      aurane waters:
      LukaNieto,

      I disagree, Book!Cersei is far more interesting than Show!Cersei. for one at least GRRM didn’t have the man that she loves rape her and then say it “became consensual in the end”. and at least GRRM didn’t reduce her to the role of The Mother. Book!Cersei has far more facets than Show!Cersei.

      Amen.
      Cersei doesn’t have to be likable, that doesn’t make her a better written character in any single way.

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    96. I mean honestly, I’m glad Gaston fell off that balcony. I would be pissed if I was told that he acted the way he did because he secretly was gay and was forced by his physically and mentally abusive father to be more manly and misogynistic.

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    97. The reports I’m hearing on Facebook from locals suggests that Lena’s body double did the actual nude scenes. Any word on that from your sources?

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    98. TheTouchOfFrost:
      BrightroarsBane,

      But they are issues that exist in the world. Female Genital Mutilation is still widely practiced in parts of Asia and Africa ( so is Male Genital Mutilation if you view Jewish traditions that way), as is beheading, animal cruelty and killing of all descriptions. So because these don’t affect us directly it’s ok subject matter? Yet this example of extreme misogyny (the walk) is somehow worse because first world women experience lesser incidents of misogyny? I understand when you say this is why it comes up but I don’t agree with it.

      I think he made an excellent point. THAT is the reason why it comes up in “modern first world society” (to use his words) even if you don’t agree with it. And if I read his comment correctly the poster never said it is ok or not. Or that is worse or better than the other type of cruelties you have listed. Or that the other horrible things should be disregarded. I’m sure he will clarify but I don’t see it in his comment.

      I am pretty sure that in other areas of the world where mutilation or beheading is currently happening as public punishment, a naked WoS would be somewhere at the bottom of the list of things that fire up people’s discussions.

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    99. Mine is the Furry,

      Oh alright, fine…

      I won’t make any assumptions about the show or viewer reactions because all of the information simply isn’t there.

      But I will say this. I cheered when Cersei walked in the books. Why? Because she thought with her wealth and power and imaginary penis she was above and better than the mistress of Casterly Rock who suffered the exact same punishment.

      You see, Cersei is a misogynist. You can say it’s internalized, b/c menz, but it seemed pretty outward to me. She believed playing along with the OBC until she got hers was all she needed to do, and women who played the game like girls were feeble. If she carried herself like a man, that is how she would be treated.

      It isn’t until halfway through the walk she starts to see and feel as people out loud make judgements of her body and her proclivities that when you play by OBC rules, the rules don’t change, not even for you, particularly if you perpetuate them; let’s not forget this all went down because she was trying to take down Margeary for made up proclivities.

      So. Yeah. She got exactly what she deserved, and like everyone else in this story, it is as ugly if not uglier than the actions that led to it. It is what was necessary for the character to truly understand that this IS her comeuppance.

      Mmmm, muffins.

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    100. Geez, you’d think there’d been more news or something the way this thread’s flared up since I last checked it.

        Quote  Reply

    101. krtmd:
      The reports I’m hearing on Facebook from locals suggests that Lena’s body double did the actual nude scenes.Any word on that from your sources?

      Hope they’re not right. I mean, LH has been sport about nude scenes in her career, and though this is the most public one she’s had, she has hinted that it would be fine for her IIRC.

      Anyway, as long as it’s not cringe-worthy CGI nudity, it won’t ruin the scene or anything.

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    102. Fjordgazer,

      even the body…i dont think that is her…maybe people are just mistaking because of the costume…the body looks younger…olenna is tiny and this woman look taller and has her back straight up…still could be diana though idk

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    103. We should remember, the Walk is punishment or penance for the…

      crimes Cersei confesses and admits to, fornication with Lancel and the Kettleblack brothers. Not for any of the other crimes she’s accused of, which she continues to deny.

      The trial by combat with Robert Strong is to determine her guilt in the other crimes, and the death sentence associated with that is the punishment for murdering the High Septon and Robert Baratheon.

      So, although as a viewer we know Cersei is guilty of greater things, and can consider the Walk as punishment for those… they aren’t the crimes she’s being punished for in the book/show world. There’s a disconnect between the two.

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    104. Greenjones:
      Geez, you’d think there’d been more news or something the way this thread’s flared up since I last checked it.

      I sincerely and “unsarcastically” apologize for my part on it. Really, I’m sorry. I’ve been there, thinking that fresh news had popped up, and instead finding that another discussion about the biggest bitch in Westeros being “mistreated” had arisen.

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    105. Lena headey won’t be filming naked at any point, she whole heartedly refused. In other news her body double is her spitting image.

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    106. Will do:
      Lena headey won’t be filming naked at any point, she whole heartedly refused. In other news her body double is her spitting image.

      how did you know that ! there is a photo of her from the walk`s set !

        Quote  Reply

    107. Lady Nym,

      I’ve been in dubrovnik, was an extra on Tuesday and spoke to the other extras yesterday who were there at the start of the walk. Lena filmed close ups yesterday and the body double done the rest.

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    108. Will do,

      well that’s surprising……lena has said many times that she was fine with doing nudity. but i guess she changed her mind ,can’t say i blame her at all for not wanting to do nudity for this scene anyways

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    109. If Lena films that scene fully nude without a body double I’ll never ever say a negative word about her acting.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Will do:
      Lady Nym,

      I’ve been in dubrovnik, was an extra on Tuesday and spoke to the other extras yesterday who were there at the start of the walk. Lena filmed close ups yesterday and the body double done the rest.

      If you’re legit, you’ve just ruined the scene for a lot of guys, haha.

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    111. Marsha Green ,

      even the most powerful woman in westeros can be crushed under the fist of a patriarchal society

      So quick to make this about misogyny and feminism. So even Cersei, probably the worst human being in Westeros, should be excused from charges because she lacks a chromosome? If a mass murderer commits 50 murders you only have to try them on a couple to get the death penalty. Just because she’s only being punished for fornication we all know she’s guilty of much more. It’s just convenient for the Faith to wrap this up on the lesser charge to serve their purpose. They want to make a statement to bring about a renaissance of modesty and piousness.

      Looks like you’re blinded by that chip on your shoulder.

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    112. aurane waters,

      I can only say what I’ve been told, but by the sounds of it she was covered upto just above her chest for the close ups and then the body double done the rest. They finished on the jesuit steps yesterday and moved to the back streets they filmed in today, on Saturday there filming at sheherezade villa just outside old town, we walked by today and there was boxes marked illyrios? Any idea what they would be doing there?

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    113. Strider,

      I agreed with them that that is possibly the reason it came up but I personally find that a bit of a strange thing to worry about when there’s a lot worse going on in the show and the world.

      Quite surprised if she has refused to do the nude scenes as from how she was talking she seemed really up for it. I mean I can see why she might not want to do full frontal (although I think she has before for shall we say less illustrious projects than GoT) but bums and boobs is pretty tame. Not too fussed if it’s shot well but I do worry it could be obvious it’s not her. In all the instances of nudity in the show so far, I’d say this is probably the one with the most genuine need for it!

        Quote  Reply

    114. Will do,

      thank you!! well its honestly the closeups that matter the most so i’m not too bothered that she decided not to go nude……just a little surprised that’s all. keep us updated i you get anymore news 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    115. jentario,

      No she refused to do any of the naked scenes herself apparently, although they continued filming with her after the extras got asked to leave on Tuesday.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Will do,

      Yeah, Can’t blame Lena. A nude scene and a nude scene with a hundred strangers staring at you are very differnt things

      But hey, at least some hope Illyrio and Pentos are in 🙂

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    117. Will do,

      Wait, so Illyrio IS coming back?

      That is AMAZING news if true. I really want Varys to meet up with Illyrio in Pentos. Illyrio’s role in the books being taken up completely by Varys would not have been disastrous, but if this is real, it’s great they are tying up their relationship, which was set up in Season 1.

      If you took photos of those boxes, send them to the WotW staff 😉

      I looked up the villa, and it does look pretty similar to Illyrio’s manse in Season 1, which was Malta’s Presidential Palace if I remember correctly. In fact, this villa looks even more impressive!

      http://www.awesomeretreats.com/new/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/VillaSheherezade-2-MVG.jpg

      http://www.energyclinic.com/content_images/villa-sheherezade-6.jpg

      http://www.holidaycheck.com/data/urlaubsbilder/images/33/1159691861.jpg

      You don’t know how much I hope this is true… If they are filming on Saturday, I hope we get confirmation soon. WotW, get on this 😛

      jentario,

      Read it again. The boxes weren’t in the city, but in a villa in which they will film on Saturday. The villa looks like a mansion. Like… Illyrio’s mansion?!

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    118. jentario,

      I’ve got a few pics here actually. My hotel was next door to the villa there filming in and the walls are pretty high but I’ll send them to admin and ask them to post them. The rest on on my camera and haven’t got a laptop handy.

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    119. Luka Nieto,

      They prob box defos said illyrios. I sent some pics to admin that I took from my hotel window, the villa was next door. It looked like there were putting down pentosy style carpets. Hopefully they’ll postcode pics soon

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    120. Will do:
      jentario,

      I’ve got a few pics here actually. My hotel was next door to the villa there filming in and the walls are pretty high but I’ll send them to admin and ask them to post them. The rest on on my camera and haven’t got a laptop handy.

      I hope all you say is true. It was due time for proper leaks, instead of photos with extras and panoramics that feel like downloaded from Google Earth’s database (appreciate the effort for those, though).

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    121. Will do,

      It’d be great if you did that.

      Illyrio coming back would be big news for Tyrion’s storyline:

      If we had to guess his Season 5 story arc from the information that we had until now, it would be half the season traveling with Varys towards Meereen, the two of them alone together, and then Tyrion being snatched up by Jorah and both of them still going to Meereen. Of course, things would happen along the way and they would meet new tertiary characters (Volantis brothel, maybe Stone Men, being enslaved, a great climax at Meereen’s Daznak’s Pit), but knowing Illyrio may be back honestly gives Tyrion’s story arc a more robust shape. Personally, it makes me think I’ll like his scenes much more. Illyrio and Varys together offers opportunities for a great set-up for Tyrion’s story, even more epic than in the books.

      Honestly, I don’t care so much about 100% faithfulness to the source material, not even Young Griff being probably gone —I care more about Tyrion’s story being good television, a good season arc for his character, roughly based on his ADWD chapters.

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    122. Hermann:
      WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      Any criticism of women = misogynistic?

      Are you joking? It’s a shame nearly all asoiaf communities are filled with radical feminists. Everything that happened to Cersei was well deserved.

      That’s not the shame, really. The shame is that nearly all ASOIAF communities are filled with radical feminists among the moderators.

      Sorry if what i say hits too close to home here. i don’t really know, but it’s true elsewhere.

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    123. Fjordgazer,

      I understand what you’re saying but I’m a feminist and I wouldn’t call people “potential rapists”, “misogynistic pigs” if they think she deserved it. I might call them uninformed or perhaps blind to the misogyny in it, but names likes that? No. It’s better if we don’t call an entire group of people something when we know that clearly isn’t so. Better to educate than alienate.

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    124. Okay, you all convinced me about Illyrio’s mansion. I’d love to see those pics, Will do.

      And on Lena out right refusing any form of nudity, I think there’s a solid chance that those are just set rumors. There has to be at least one shot that shows more than Lena’s face. Maybe they haven’t filmed that yet, but I do think she’ll have to power through for a couple of shots otherwise the whole scene could suffer (in that we’d only see Cersei’s back and an extreme close up on her face, which would be odd). They definitely don’t need 100 extras present to film such shots, just the ones that appear on screen at the time. In any case, this is too early to worry about this stuff. I’m sure the director (supposedly good ol Nutter) knows what he’s doing and we’ll have a great scene on our hands.

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    125. jentario,

      As I said they continued filming on Tuesday after the extras got told to leave. Could of been done then but the scene without a crowd would be pretty crap

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    126. Not surprised Lena isn’t doing all the nude scenes. Remember the tattoos… too much time in the makeup chair I’d bet.

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    127. Fjordgazer,
      Indeed the feminists walk among you. Sorry it’s such a hardship for you.
      People aren’t saying Cersei is a saint. The discussions are more centered around the fact that she is punished usually for her sexual acts and lack of modesty which is indeed characteristic of a patriarchal society. If people can’t take a woman down by dismantling her power, they attack her sexuality. It’s not about Cersei being good or bad, or people not being allowed to criticize her. Of course people can criticize her, she’s done a lot of negative things. But equal punishment would be her being executed/assassinated like so many. Not being paraded nude and sexually belittled in front of thousands of people. I think GRRM would agree Cersei is subject to sexism. It’s in the society he created, one that reflects a lot of our world.

      And yayyyyyyy info on Illyrio and that villa! Love seeing that. Will post. Thanks for the email!

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    128. Fjordgazer,

      Uuuuhhh…

      Filled with=less than a handful

      Radical=annoyingly misguided, but willing to hear your point.

      I’m not a fan of Dame Pasty twice making a point that didn’t to be made (no one said the walk itself was not an act of misogyny. Girl.). But she’s new, meanwhile Sue has yet to weigh in and if anyone round these parts is gonna call out and deal with real deal misogyny, it’s this one.

      Not saying yall were being that accusatory, but maybe a lil overblown. Just putting some perspective on it.

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    129. Sue the Fury,

      Exactly. Some people here miss the point entirely. It’s not that Cersei isn’t bad, or that portraying her punishment is misogynistic; we are simply saying that the charges she’s being punished for have nothing to do with the horrible crimes she actually did commit, and a lot to do with what a heavily misogynistic society would consider a sexual crime (that is, a woman performing any act of sex out of marriage), and the punishment itself is a public display of shaming a woman for her sexuality. If pointing that out is “radical feminism”, then I guess I am a radical feminist. So is GRRM, by the way.

      Really looking forward to the Illyrio report. And I hope we get more info on it on Sunday. Sue, I guess you have contacts in Dubrovnik; it’d be great to point them toward the villa, especially just before and during filming. But… I guess that, if you do have those contacts, you’re already doing that and you don’t need anyone telling you how to do your job. Sorry. I’m just excited for Illyrio’s return.

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    130. Sue the Fury:
      Fjordgazer,
      Indeed the feminists walk among you. Sorry it’s such a hardship for you.
      People aren’t saying Cersei is a saint. The discussions are more centered around the fact that she is punished usually for her sexual acts and lack of modesty which is indeed characteristic of a patriarchal society. If people can’t take a woman down by dismantling her power, they attack her sexuality. It’s not about Cersei being good or bad, or people not being allowed to criticize her. Of course people can criticize her, she’s done a lot of negative things. But equal punishment would be her being executed/assassinated like so many. Not being paraded nude and sexually belittled in front of thousands of people. I think GRRM would agree Cersei is subject to sexism. It’s in the society he created, one that reflects a lot of our world.

      And yayyyyyyy info on Illyrio and that villa! Love seeing that. Will post. Thanks for the email!

      Oops! Like i said, making lots of friends here 🙂

      Anyway, whatever our differences in opinion are, thanks for not deleting comments (as far as i’ve seen). Although i’m sorry that you jump at the label “radical feminist” instead of just “feminist”.

      Cheers anyway!

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    131. Aryamad,

      In that one set photo above (the one with the umbrellas shielding her) her back tattoos were covered though. My guess is that she did a few quick shots nekkid, maybe only when the crowd had been shown away but left most of it to the double.

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    132. I think we all need to pick up a dictionary and look up the word misogyny. Misogyny is the hatred of women. No one in this story (except Joffrey and maybe the Mountain) hates or goes out of their way to be cruel or harshly treat women. Now that being said there is plainly a common belief amongst Westerosi society, an ideology it shares with our own past that one sex is superior to the other and should therefore be given leadership roles, certain advantages, etc… This is chauvinism not misogyny. I don’t agree with this, I am a defender of equality, but this is part of our history and we can’t deny it or rewrite it for the sake of people’s sensibilities.

      The walk of shame is a product of the religious extremism that is sweeping the capital. Similar to many puritanical societies that would carry out this punishment in our own past. In their eyes no one should be having sex outside of marriage, male or female and therefore should be punished for it. Most Westerosis would view this as a massive overstep but this is Cersei. Like someone mentioned above, its like running Al Capone up on tax evasion. Everyone knew she had it coming they’re just glad she had her comeuppance. The nobility of Westeros turning a blind eye to Cersei’s WOS is passive version of a mob mentality. When acting as a group people are capable of incredible cruelty, devoid of empathy.

      Yes, the WOS is purely a female punishment because it doesn’t work on men. Would many men care if they were forced to walk naked through the streets with a thousand women looking on? There are men that would pay for this. An equivalent punishment would be cutting off of the nose. If a boy deflowered a maiden it would not be unheard of for the father and family to lynch the boy and hang him, so the walk of shame is in a sense an act of mercy.

      Those that see misogyny at turn are obviously harbouring ill feelings towards men and treading dangerously close to the path of sexism.

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    133. This thread was fun. A lot of people shouting (well, can you shout in writing?) over shit when they actually agree. Sprinkle some pubes on it and you’ve got yourself a classic.

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    134. Will do

      “No she refused to do any of the naked scenes herself apparently,although they continued filming with her after the extras got asked to leave on Tuesday.”

      Your comments in this thread are of great amusement to me my good Sir/Lady… Keep them coming! 🙂

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    135. Think it’s time feminism is left in the past. It served a purpose when women didn’t have a voice but now it’s too confused with itself and looking at something from one gender’s perspective (even if it was/is the more under-represented one) is no better than looking at it from the others. Why can’t we all just be Equalitists?

      Anyway…somewhere back at the original topic: Perhaps the body double will be used for the outdoor/crowd shots and Lena will do her nude scenes on a more closed set perhaps at the very start and end of the walk?

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    136. On Illyrio… Roger Allam is currently appearing on stage in London in a play called Seminar, up until the 1st of November, with no breaks of more than 2 days. I’m not sure if that would rule his return out completely… maybe he can pop over to Croatia for a day or two. But I’d imagine they’d be dressing the place in order to film there shortly, and certainly next month. Mayhaps, Illyrio won’t be in any exterior shots, and will only shoot interior scenes in Ireland? Maybe they’re reusing some props from the first season? Or, maybe it’ll just be Tyrion and Varys, making use of the place while Illyrio is absent and we won’t see him?

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    137. FlayRamsay,

      You lost me no one else mistreats women but Joffrey and maybe the Mountain…Robert? Walder Frey? Craster?! RAMSEY?!

      But slow clap for accusing feminists of being sexist, bro.

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    138. Randa Noyce:
      FlayRamsay,

      You lost me no one else mistreats women but Joffrey and maybe the Mountain…Robert? Walder Frey? Craster?! RAMSEY?!

      But slow clap for accusing feminists of being sexist, bro.

      You can accuse him of not exerting his memory enough. Add those names to the ones he mentioned, his argument is still mostly good.

      PS: Lord Walder mistreats his women and girls as much as he mistreats his boys. Only show-Walder gave his wife away to be killed by Cat.

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    139. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Think it’s time feminism is left in the past. It served a purpose when women didn’t have a voice but now it’s too confused with itself…(even if it was/is the more under-represented one)…Why can’t we all just be Equalitists?

      Because of that underrepresented part, feminism still exists, and rightly so. You can call yourself equalist but it is a semantics issue since the goals are the same. Feminism could absolutely use an overhaul, though, as I agree about the confusion. The focus should be on gender equality and global outreach and stopping sexual violence but too often, or perhaps too loudly, arguments are focused on female superiority or cynisism or stereotyping males and other dumb stuff.

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    140. Have they pulled the “What about the mens?” ping pong ball yet? I am late to the party and am just getting my bingo card out.

      Got my eye on that sweet set of darning needles.

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    141. Mine is the Furry,

      Ahhhh – memories. I was too young to see the Broadway show when it came to town, but I did love listening to the sountrack. I think I may have that song in my head for a long time (sorry to interrupt the debate; the comment did make me smile)

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    142. Randa Noyce,

      How can a school of thought that looks at things from a female perspective possibly represent both genders? I’m sure some areas of feminism do have noble goals of equality but the name itself suggests that the female perspective is the only one bothered with equal rights. Just bin anything attached to either gender and start afresh with something that represents both gender views on an equal footing and you’ll avoid people from both sides straying off of the ultimate goal of equality.

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    143. Randa Noyce:
      Fjordgazer,

      MmmNo. It really isn’t.

      We’re not the ones who will change your mind. I can live with that, and i’m sure FlayRamsay can too.

      Hodor’s Bastard: Talk about mixing the real with the imaginary! Geez, man.

      Like i said before, i’m fine with body doubles and merkins, but if they pull that CGI nudity crap, i’ll be mad at the show.

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    144. FlayRamsay:

      Those that see misogyny at turn are obviously harbouring ill feelings towards men and treading dangerously close to the path of sexism.

      Woooooo! Bingo! :ickeyshuffle: Gonna make an Afghan. Gonna make an Afghan. Wooooooooo! Suck it, losers!

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    145. TheTouchOfFrost: Think it’s time feminism is left in the past. It served a purpose when women didn’t have a voice but now it’s too confused with itself and looking at something from one gender’s perspective (even if it was/is the more under-represented one) is no better than looking at it from the others. Why can’t we all just be Equalitists?

      First of, I strongly disagree that feminism is a thing of the past. There are many occasions were feminism is very much needed. The core of feminism is nothing complicated. It wants equal rights, human dignity, the end of sexism and self-determination for women. I think if you boil feminism down to that we are all feminist around here. 🙂
      I agree that feminism, like every big political and philosophical movement, has taken some very strange forms and with some of them I strongly disagree, but that does not mean that feminism is “confused with itself”, it just means that there are many different forms of it. That does not in anyway devalue its core. – Which in fact could be broken down to “Women should be equal to men.”

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    146. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Randa Noyce</st,

      How can a school of thought that looks at things from a female perspective possibly represent both genders? I’m sure some areas of feminism do have noble goals of equality but the name itself suggests that the female perspective is the only one bothered with equal rights. Just bin anything attached to either gender and start afresh with something that represents both gender views on an equal footing and you’ll avoid peoplefrom both sides straying off of the ultimate goal of equality.

      I don’t think the word feminism suggests that at all. I think it suggests an answer to patriarchy. There are men who identify as feminists, including GRRM. All genders are considered in the school of thought, I don’t know where you get that it is so narrow.

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    147. Fjordgazer: Like i said before, i’m fine with body doubles and merkins, but if they pull that CGI nudity crap, i’ll be mad at the show.

      I’m pretty sure they won’t spend any money on that kind of CGI. That would be silly. Besides, bodysuits are pretty amazing and detailed these days. Plus, if Cersei is going to have stuff thrown at her during the WoS, they will use a double for that. Can’t risk having LH get hurt.

      Like LN and I discussed a few threads ago, the most interesting thing about this scene will be the visualization of Cersei’s spiralling thoughts, illusions and sudden transparency to the crowd. The shooting angles and perspectives will matter. Can’t wait.

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    148. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Think it’s time feminism is left in the past. It served a purpose when women didn’t have a voice but now it’s too confused with itself and looking at something from one gender’s perspective (even if it was/is the more under-represented one) is no better than looking at it from the others. Why can’t we all just be Equalitists?

      There are still many women who do not have a voice. I well remember the 70s when the women’s rights movement made its voice known, and because of that fight,women have made great gains socially,financially, and politically. So feminists shouldn’t be left in the past We need them now, esp in this day when politicians would like nothing more to squash us like Tyrion’s bug killing cousin. I am a feminist because I believe in giving all women a voice, that I believe that women and men should be equal in society, and because there is still much work to be done.

      Now back to the WOS – I admit cheering when I read that scene in the book. By that time, she had done so many horrible things (not even talking about incest or her sexual appetite) that I felt like she deserved it, not because she was a woman but because she was an evil human being who thought rules didn’t apply to her. I think however that this scene is going to be more difficult in the show, since her character really has been toned down, and so the viewers are probably going to have much more sympathy for her. Should be interesting to see the comments later when its aired

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    149. Cumsprite:
      Have they pulled the “What about the mens?” ping pong ball yet? I am late to the party and am just getting my bingo card out.

      Got my eye on that sweet set of darning needles.

      It ain’t that kind of party…

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    150. Hermann,

      Did I say Cersei can’t be criticized? No I did not. Did I say she’s a good person? Again, no. What I said was that the punishment (which is for fornication, not murder) was gendered and misogynistic.

      Why do anti feminists always have such trouble with reading comprehension and logic? You’re that desperate to see straw feminists everywhere?

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    151. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Feminism doesn’t need to concern itself with helping men equally because men are the more privileged and powerful gender. It’s the same reason we don’t need a white rights movement or a straight rights movement.

      Egalitarianism is great in theory but only works if all people are on equal footing.

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    152. Abyss,

      Very well put!

      I think part of the problem these days is that we don’t hear about the more, for lack of a better way of putting it, “traditional” feminism. Most of what gets a lot of attention these days is more along the lines of those “strange forms” to which you referred. Because those forms are what we tend to hear more about, it’s a natural thing for people to equate one with with the other, when, as you already said, they are different forms. I can understand why people get defensive when they see the word “misogyny,” because it has been used to a point where many just equate it with meaning “you hate all women.” I, personally, try to avoid using it, basically because of how the word has taken on a life of its own. That’s just me, though, and this is all just one person’s opinion.

      Regarding Lena Heady refusing to go nude, I’m more inclined to think, as someone has already mentioned, that is more of a set rumor. In the interviews I read she was absolutely game to go for it for the WOS. Quite frankly, I think given the kind of balls out actress she is, she wants to go for the genuine emotional depth and impact of experiencing the WOS as Cersei experienced it…putting herself…all of herself…genuinely in that moment (sory to sound all actory esoteric).

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    153. A couple things I would like to see, in the show version:

      1) In my reading of the text, I got the impression that the walk almost-but-not-quite broke Cersei. I felt bad for her, in the same way that I’d feel bad for anyone in that situation… but to me, it was crucial that she did NOT achieve any redemption. If I remember correctly, she almost broke, almost repented… then pushed those thoughts away, as the walk ended. In the end, she’s still her same old evil self. I thought that was subtly complex and well written.

      2) I hope they make mention of the fact that Tywin forced this exact same punishment on his father’s mistress(?).

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    154. I can’t believe this is building into a modern day standards judging and expectation of the show and book writers, hell we could fill up a 1000 page book with a great list of undeserved killings nailings, flayings ,hangings rapings a vertically challenged bugger being held without trial in an inappropriate cell, even a beautiful blonde leading a naked man behind her horse with his dick swinging in the breeze! Why focus on a couple of scenes happening to one of the shows strongest characters?

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    155. So why can’t equal rights be established by also being concerned with men’s rights/viewpoints? Feminism naturally takes a female perspective which will never lead to balance. It’s concerned with one group which is always a bad train of thought to get into. I’m not a feminist but I believe in equal rights. Will continue this later…need to go to work!

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    156. paul,

      Geez. Nobody is critizing the show or the books for the Walk. Reading comprehension is poor here, apparently. Nobody is saying the author is mysognistic; we are saying the situation he depicts (a woman punished for fornication by shaming her sexuality publicly) is a reflection of the mysoginistic, patriarchal Westerosi society. That’s it. Then dozens of people replied by saying “she deserved it”… despite the fact that’s not actually what we are talking about. At all.

      Cersei deserved to be punished for her crimes. She wasn’t; she was punished for imaginary crimes of indecency that only puritanical extremists can conceive of as crimes. And we’re not judging the material for this, but praising it. But some people hear the word “misogyny” and jump from every corner to shout “Radical feminists ruining everything!”. It’s silly, and misunderstands our points completely.

      Then again, some of these people apparently think feminism is no longer necessary, presumably because misogyny no longer exists. Oh, well, women will be happy to know that. Is racism gone too? Really? So. Are we ready for a white rights movement? For “equality”, you see. It’s absurd.

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    157. It’s Lena Headey’s birthday! So let’s all stop a-arguing and celebrate the lady who’s brought Cersei Lannister to our televisions.

      Body double or no, she filmed a rough scene yesterday and deserves a round of applause (which apparently she got on set already). To the Lioness!

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    158. Hot Topic this one. Not a bad thing to discuss it out, but it does get heavy. Needs a bit of cheering up so I’m with the poster above: Happy Birthday Lena Headey!

      Mine is the Furry: Boromir never shaved.

      This thread needs more math, Ry:
      Boromir =/= The Hound
      Bri > Ser Jaime Lannister > any Sean Bean character
      #PussyWins

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    159. Happy Birthday Ms Headey, to a talented Thespian and mother who still looks as young, vibrant and beautiful as the actress I watched for the first time in “Aberdeen” almost a decade and a half ago.

      “Skol!”

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    160. I’d like to wish Lena many happy returns also (though would she read this – methinks probably not). Can’t help wondering if some parties would feel the scene was of equal dramatic importance if the walk was performed by a physically unattractive person playing a physically unattractive character (I did say physically; Cersei is not that appealing in non-physical ways unless you are Jaime).

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    161. Regarding the body double issue. I heard that Ms Headey said that in the scene in Series 1 where Bran comes across Jaime and Cersei “in the act”, a body double was used for the bit where Cersei’s backside was shown.

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    162. Luka Nieto:
      paul,

      Then again, some of these people apparently think feminism is no longer necessary, presumably because misogyny no longer exists. Oh, well, women will be happy to know that. Is racism gone too? Really? So. Are we ready for a white rights movement? For “equality”, you see. It’s absurd.

      The only way to tackle social problems like sexism and racism is as a society. By segregating and labelling yourself a feminist then you are intrinsically committing yourself to a female perspective which, I’ll say again, is ultimately flawed as it fails to consider the male viewpoint. You can fight for equal rights without being part of a group but ultimately I feel people label themselves as feminists to give themselves an identity. As with any group (religion for example), feminism can lead to a quite self-righteous section of that community which is what happens when you commit to a certain mindset. You think it’s right and get angry when it’s challanged. So yeah, that’s why I don’t agree with feminism or tying yourself to any sort of prescribed perspective that narrows your thinking.

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    163. Luka Nieto:
      paul,

      Cersei deserved to be punished for her crimes. She wasn’t; she was punished for imaginary crimes of indecency that only puritanical extremists can conceive of as crimes.

      But she wanted Margaery to be beheaded for these same imaginary crimes. Don’t you think it’s deserved that her plan backfired on her?

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    164. TheTouchOfFrost:
      So why can’t equal rights be established by also being concerned with men’s rights/viewpoints? Feminism naturally takes a female perspective which will never lead to balance. It’s concerned with one group which is always a bad train of thought to get into. I’m not a feminist but I believe in equal rights. Will continue this later…need to go to work!

      Being a traditional feminist means that you take a stand for the rights of women, not that you take a stand against the rights of men. You can very well be a feminist and want equal rights for everyone.
      But feminism is about more then just equal rights for women, so it would be a disservice just to replace it with equal rights movement. It also points at the to this day very real sexism and underrepresentation of women, especially if you look at the whole world. The fact that men can face that too doesn’t change the fact that women face it more than men. The reason why feminism came into being was because of this social inequality.
      It is true that feminism looks at things from primarily one point of view, but that’s not a bad thing per se nor is it unusual. In fact every school of thought does this to a wider or lesser extant. It opens you up to see things from a different angle.

      Happy birthday, Lena Headey. 😀

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    165. Cersei is a scheming evil bitch who…
      At the end of the walk of shame
      WINS
      This is the most disturbing thing about the walk of shame.
      When she finds the arms of ROBERT STRONG.
      She learns and accepts nothing from her ‘punishment.’
      Consider every other POV prisoner.

      The high septon is clearly making a power play on lannister and tyrells both. It’s not about the means he is resorting to… It’s about the purpose…
      is he playing THE GAME people?

      Set your misogyny aside; realize it didn’t work anyway and

      understand george

      Is setting us up for much more critical things to worry about
      Than cerseis hurt pride

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    166. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Most of what gets a lot of attention these days is more along the lines of those “strange forms” to which you referred. Because those forms are what we tend to hear more about, it’s a natural thing for people to equate one with with the other, when, as you already said, they are different forms

      Yes this. It makes me crazy, not just when talking about women’s rights, but in any issue, abortion, immigration rights, focus is always on the crazies on either side. Its all black and white,no shades of gray,no complexity considered, so all people know are the extremes. So no wonder people think feminists are men haters etc. I wish people would actually take the time to find out what terms like this mean and what the variations on the theme they might find. Unfortunately people are being taught by the media to just look at those screaming the loudest, and ignore any sound of reason in their midst.

      Happy birthday Lena! And if you decided that going nude plus being pelted with garbage and worse was not in the ticket for you, I don’t blame you at all. You don’t need to prove yourself to anyone. Have a wonderful day!

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    167. Brian,

      But that is the cool thing about this scene. Cersei has this crazed cognitive distortion during her stay at the sept that spirals into desperation and complete delusion (with paranoid visions of the dead looming at her from the crowd) during the walk. She almost breaks but, as you state, she does reach the Red Keep and her narcissistic delusion is maintained by RS “saving” her. It is a brilliant scene that has amazing potential on screen.

      Believe it or not, I have compared it to Cat’s spiral during the RW. Cat completely sinks into insanity during that scene. Cersei also spirals during her walk but her prior cognitive distortion (some may say she is already insane) and delusion of omnipotence actually helps her maintain control. Once she reaches the keep, we realize that she hasn’t really changed a bit. The ultimate sociopath. 🙂

      Happy name day, LH!

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    168. Mine is the Furry: Sorry if I wasn’t clear.I meant the shrinking of the endometrium in the uterus kind of period.

      I never understood why folks call it a “period.” It’s more of an exclamation point.

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    169. Abyss,

      Well, personally, I think it is bad think to only look at things from one viewpoint as that’s how the persecution of certain groups began in the first place. As long as the aim is equality then I guess the way you get tehre isn’t too important but I worry as feminism has it’s fair share of zealots like any other group and it may go beyond equality to preferential treatement as that is obviously better for women. Anyway, I think this subject has run it’s course for now and shall no doubt be revisited far sooner than any of us really want.

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    170. Marsha Green,

      Dared to have sex? She fucked family members, and killed many. She is evil and deserves to die. Westeros is a brutal world. Men got hacked to part, lost hands, etc. Women go through their own awful punishment. Jaimie loosing his sword hand was as traumatic and neutering for him, as his sister’s punishment is for her. Not everything is a social statement

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    171. R+L=J:
      Marsha Green,

      Dared to have sex? She fucked family members, and killed many. She is evil and deserves to die. Westeros is a brutal world. Men got hacked to part, lost hands, etc. Women go through their own awful punishment. Jaimie loosing his sword hand was as traumatic and neutering for him, as his sister’s punishment is for her. Not everything is a social statement

      Not to mention that there’s a reason why Septon Meribald spoke about Broken Men, but not Broken Women. Both in Westeros and in the real world (for most of history), women have been spared war duties. Yes, rape is awful, but men from the lower classes suffered their own kinds of torments (including rape itself). Feminists always forget that so-called “patriarchal domination” was a thing of the high classes. Women didn’t have the right to vote, but neither did poor men. The smallfolk, plebs or whatever you call it was fucked, men and women alike.

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    172. Strider,

      It was all Mine is the Furry! He started it! I just made a harmless chemistry joke! – I know that he has a bad influence on me, but he is just so edgy and cool… :'(

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    173. Yes, the world of Westeros is sexist, and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing- using fiction to comment on human nature and real problems can be pretty much awesome, especially in comparison to just not talking about them. Westeros sounds like an undesirable place to live for a lot of reasons, actually. The line between media commenting on an attitude and perpetuating it can, however, prove rather thin at times. That said, I’m looking forward to the WOS. It has the potential to be a very strong scene for the show. I’m also hoping for more drunk!Cersei next season.

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    174. TheTouchOfFrost,

      It is hard for equalists when we are not all like, you know equal… As a man with a fully functoning set of balls, I can still apreciate that women are still not equal in pretty much any society in the world.

      Also, read up on feminism, many of the things these “angry” and “radical” feminists complain about like fixed gender roles, partiarchy and traditional marriage are also not all that good for men. For example, it is only a problem for Tyrion to marry Shey if he really wanted to in a patriacal society. If women weren’t viewed as property, and old man Frey wasn’t pissed that he would never be able to sell his daughter at such advntage as he would have with the Starks (not to mention that he had a huge surplus of daughters) would he have killed Robb and all of his men? Not to mention Loras.

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    175. Dude I give Lena big props for even doing this scene. As an actor (if u can pull it off) it can make your career but as a human being its , well, its my worst nightmare… Literally I have bad dreams like this. She is one strong lady.
      Lady Nym,

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    176. Theon’s Bits,

      Not quite sure what you’re trying to say? They’re not but you could argue men don’t have the same equality as women in many areas too ( paternity leave, in custody battles, social roles and oppurtunities, etc). Women have traditionally had it worse throughout history but that doesn’t mean we should focus solely on them for equality. Although, a lot of it is debatable and argued about within the school of thought, Feminism is intrinsically linked to the female perspective and female equality. This is why feminism is flawed as too many of its thinkers think they are the sole path towards universal equality when their priority is one group of people. Feminism automatically = equality is a false assertion. Feminism = female equality. Because it’s focus is on one group then there is always going to be tension with others that it neglects. That’s why I’m not a fan of it and think there are better ways to achieve equality…for everyone.
      There are overlaps in thinking and gender roles , as you mentioned, can cause problems for both genders but this isn’t thinking unique to feminism! Think it’s rather ironic that gender roles and fixed thinking are generally disdained by feminism and yet it’s position comes from gender and fixed thinking!

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    177. TheTouchOfFrost,

      You are wrong when you think that feminism is necessarily only concerned with the female perspective. There is in fact a feminist sub-movement that criticizes some forms of feminism for focusing to much on the female point if view. I’m not very familiar with it, but I looked some names up on Wikipedia. Maybe you should look into the works of Camille Paglia, Christina Hoff Sommers, Jean Bethke Elshtain, Elizabeth Fox-Genovese or Daphne Patai. – Or just take a look at equity feminism. From what I can tell, it might be right up your alley. 😉

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    178. I should add that the term “equity feminism” does not have a very good standing in the academic context from what I can tell, but the point is that it exist.

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    179. Abyss,

      Point being that even feminism disagrees with feminism! So I reiterate my original point, if the more sensible strains of feminism disregard taking only a female perspective and are concerned with more than just female equality then it’s not really feminism anymore and should be regarded as just believeing in equality for all without having to label it. I also think the view a portion of feminists put across that if you’re not feminist you can’t believe in equal rights is very sanctimoniousness as is the belief that only a female or feminine perspective can possibly arrive at the conclusion that equality is a worthwhile ideal.

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    180. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Well, yes, feminists disagree with feminists. As I said thats the case in every big movement. All I wanted to point out was that there are movements in feminism that fit your view.
      And let me end with this. I truly believe that if you would take a look at the core of feminism, you would find out that you are in fact a feminist. 🙂

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    181. Abyss,

      These are ideas that aren’t unique to feminism though! I think people are restricting their thinking by nailing their flag to a certain mast.
      I think if you really look at the very core of feminism then you’d find it’s intrinsically sexist. Labels are for sale items and although my thoughts are on offer they’re not reduced!

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    182. TheTouchOfFrost: I think if you really look at the very core of feminism then you’d find it’s intrinsically sexist.

      That’s like saying that anti-apartheid movements are raciest and I’m sure you wouldn’t say that. – Anyway, I think we both made our points clear and the thread is is pretty much dead. You are free to respond of cause, but I would say it’s time to go back to Game of Thrones. 🙂

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    183. Abyss,

      Anti-Apartheid was a movement that had a goal, feminism is a school of thought ( Women’s Rights Movement would be the Anti-Apartheid equivalent). Anyway, the ANC had a terrorist wing that bombed and killed people ( headed by the holier-than-thou Nelson Mandela) so the Anti-Apartheid movement was far from being beyond moral reproach. So there were racist or at least dangerously prejudice people in that movement.
      The good thing is I think everyone else has long abandoned this thread! But yes. Back to Thrones!

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    184. TheTouchOfFrost,

      The audience didn’t bat an eye or think that Bastard Bolton did something horrific and way, way, way out of bounds?

      Really?

      Because that was not the audience reaction that I remember.

      I’m sure there are outliers who weren’t openly horrified, but I think that the majority of folks felt much like I did when I read the incident in the book, that reaction being that while I had hated Theon, and had wished retribution on him, I certainly had NEVER wished that on him. Never. NO ONE deserved what was done to Theon. Period.

      And rail all people want or scream “P.C.” police (which, funny how that term always comes up with people wanting to have the exact same reaction as the one being protested against, which tends to be why when people scream ‘p.c. police’ too insistently it comes off looking defensive) or claim ‘crazed feminists,’ the fact remains, Cersei isn’t being punished for the terrible crimes she’s committed (and no one could be a more avid Book!Cersei hater than I am). Cersei is being punished specifically for her sexuality. She’s sentenced for a ‘crime’ that wouldn’t be a crime were she male, so it is gender-based. And her punishment is also that which shames her sexually. It is misogynist. It just… is.

      And, like my reaction to Theon’s situation where I was all for a punishment until I got a gander at what that punishment was and the context it was executed, while I hate, loathe, and despise (using redundancy as a magifier) Book!Cersei with a white hot heat, I was horrified by her punishment as well. While Cerseit deserves punishment for her assassinations and petty cruelties, she wasn’t being punished for those. She was being punished for being a woman defying the gender-convention of her society with a religious patriarchy punishing her for gender-specific reasons by humiliating her in a gender-specific punishment.

      ETA: And for claims that feminism is inherently sexist, the wrongheaded behind that thought is sadening. Feminism is not anti-male and can only be interpreted that way in some sort of zero-sum perpective where one groups gain must be another’s loss. But, if one insists on seeing it as a zero-sum thing, well erosion of privelege ( if the concept of ‘equality’ is too much to bear) is still not the same thing as actual discrimination.

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    185. ship,

      Don’t really wanna go through all this again but will sum up. I’m not arguing that what happens to Cersei isn’t misogynistic. I’m not arguing that on the surface she is being punished because of the views of sexuality in that universe. But I wonder why scenes like this and the rape scene always garner so much more attention and sensitivity than anything else? Yes they’re horrible things but in this fantasy world they’re a storytelling device the same as murder, peadophilia, mutilation and torture are. This is why it confuses me why some people get so worked up about it when it’s not meant to be realistic or judged by our own modern/non-fantasy morality. If we focus on the Cersei case in particular, if you look at the story narrative she is being punished via karma. The reader knows what she has done and although they don’t agree with the punishment generally in this context they may have a more relaxed view towards it because of who it’s happening to. I still stand by the statement that walking naked through the streets with people yelling stuff at you is getting off lightly compared to the way a lot of characters have been punished. Her pride is the only thing that really got seriously damaged. If you’re telling me that is worse than being killed, having various extremeties cut off or tortured then I just can’t agree with you.
      I maintain that a school of thought that doesn’t take into consideration a whole genders viewpoint is fatally flawed. Thinking from a female perspective is always going to cause tension as it’s intrinsically linked to one gender. Also , despite common perception, it’s concerned with improving the female position and not soley equality. So once equality is reached then the thought process (which I’d hope most people would leave if it did) will be to tip things in women’s favour ( which is a bad thing, despite an unsaid belief amongst a lot of followers that “well it’s only fair seeing as it used to be the other way round”). Again, abandon being labelled as a certain type of thinker and judge each case based on your logic and own thoughts. I’m a strong believer in equality but have no time for feminism whatsoever.

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    186. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Just leave it man, you won’t convince any woman. You may have a little more luck with men though, and any man who labels himself a feminist is doing himself (and all the men around him) a disservice. And ship, “PC police” may be a overused term, but it’s a necessary overuse. If you’re a male and don’t adscribe to feminist thoughts and initiatives, you’re automatically non politically correct, called names, etc. And that applies not only to feminism, but to the excessive use of euphemisms (saying terms like dwarf or mentally challenged is frowned upon; where does it end?), religion, etc.

      This PC obsession is a disease. It must be eradicated.

      Oh, and the river flows, the sun will shine, and we’ll be back at this around June when this episode airs.

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    187. Fjordgazer,

      Yes, if you say offensive things, people will call that out. Times change, terminology changes. Roll with it. Be respectful to each other. It isn’t “PC” to ask you to treat others with respect. Start doing it now, here at least.

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    188. Sue the Fury:
      Fjordgazer,

      Yes, if you say offensive things, people will call that out. Times change, terminology changes. Roll with it. Be respectful to each other. It isn’t “PC” to ask you to treat others with respect. Start doing it now, here at least.

      Yeah, “dwarf” and “mentally challenged” and all the others are so offensive, that some of them are still official medical/scientific terms. Not to mention that 50 years ago, some of them were of perfectly fine use, and probably will be again 50 years into the future when some other terms replace them as taboo. Before you bring that up, racist slurs and the like are one thing, and non-PC terms like those before are another. I’m not defending the former.

      If you consider criticizing the feminist movement (which i thought was the discussion here) offensive, say it so. But otherwise, you just found a weak argument to do some nagging. Get off your high horse, please.

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