You know it’s Game of Thrones season when the cast begins doing the rounds on late-night talk shows. And here we are! Kit Harginton appeared yesterday on Jimmy Kimmel Live to do the usual — cleverly avoid questions about next season and monkey around a bit. Also, Sophie Turner gave an interview about Sansa’s storyline in season seven.
Oh, and —stop the presses!— the author of this crazy universe, George R. R. Martin, has commented on the similarities and differences we will see between the show’s last seasons and The Winds of Winter, the as-yet-unpublished sixth book on the series.
Harington‘s appearance on Kimmel consisted of an interview with very little interviewing and a comedic skit (A man dressed as a woman! Hilarious! Ugh.) Still, Harington did offer a few tidbits: the premiere will be held tomorrow, July 12; and they shot three fake scenes in Spain to throw us off (mission not accomplished.) Here it is:
Jimmy Kimmel Live has other clips on Youtube, about Harington’s failed vacation plans, Kimmel’s daughter’s crush on the actor and the plights of being recognized.
Variety sat down with Sophie Turner to talk about what we can expect from Sansa going forward, and the actress did give a new perspective on the off-trodden subject:
“She’s finally acquired that power and respect from Jon, but not the power that she really feels that she deserves. She’s respected, but not enough to be hailed Queen of the North like she kind of hoped at the end of last season,” Turner explained. “She’s of course happy for [Jon]. He’s family … I think she knows that now they’re going to be working together a lot better, because after giving her that kill of Ramsey, he’s kind of shown that he appreciates her and will listen to her a lot more, but there is a little bit of frustration and hurt there — hurt that he didn’t say anything or hail her as Queen of the North.”
“It’s been a real honor to play a character for that long, because it gives you the chance to develop someone over 7 years, whereas normally with a movie, you get like a month and a half and maybe a month of prep,” she bemoaned. “With this you can really dig deep into the character and develop an arc that most actors could only dream of. She’s been a part of me for so long, and it will be really difficult to let her go and say goodbye.”
Read the entire interview at Variety, where she discusses Sansa’s loyalties, and more.
As for the man who brought this world to live, George R. R. Martin made a discreet comment in his Not A Blog when asked about what differences between the last seasons of Game of Thrones and the future novels, in particular The Winds of Winter:
“WINDS will be different in some ways,” the author began, “but will parallel the show in others.” So far, so good. The showrunners, David Benioff and Dan Weiss, have repeatedly stated they are following Martin’s road-map, and they intend to reach the same destination, even if the path they take is not the same. And it isn’t, as Martin attests to:
“At this point, there are probably a dozen characters who are dead on the show but alive in the books, so it would be impossible for the two to remain the same. Also, of course, there are characters in the books who have never even existed on the show, like Victarion Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Penny, Arianne Martell…”
So there you have it. All these characters, some of them tertiary but others secondary POV characters, will surely have a role to play in The Winds of Winter and beyond, so the differences are essentially a given. At the same time, the show is following Martin’s outline, so we can expect the novels to have plenty of parallelisms with the show as well.
They are trying too hard to make us believe there is going to be an issue between Jon and Sansa… which means there won’t be (or not for long). They’ll likely cover it in 30 seconds & never address it again.
Jeeze, who peed in your cheerios?
I don’t think it was the cross dressing as much as just seeing him in half assed costumes doing generic impressions of his cast mates that made me laugh.
Maybe that’s just me.
“Victarion Greyjoy, Jon Connington, Penny, Arianne Martell…”
Oh if only I cared about half of the characters that got the axe.
The impressions were all about women, except for the White Walker, a monster for which gender likely isn’t relevant. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. The supposed comedy was in “Hey, he’s a man! And he’s dressed as a woman!” Personally, I don’t find that very funny, what can I say.
The skit wasn’t as funny as the GIFs that are likely to come from Kit in drag. Though I did chuckle at Harry Potter flashing his tits.
Kit’s such a good sport. Adorable interview from top to bottom <3
And Hodor.
GeekFurious,
I find myself shouting back at YouTube theory videos who have been suggesting the rift is real. DON’T FALL FOR IT. Red herring is red.
I smiled when GRRM mentioned Penny. I fist-pumped. She will surprise us all. 🙂
I’m sure he’s busy editing Wild Cards…although his comment even got the insightful BryndenBFish excited for an hour or so.
Luka Nieto,
And Harry Potter
I would love a special feature in one of the DVDs where we see everyone’s actual audition tapes. Didn’t Kit say he showed up with a bruised face or something?
Jon would have to be married to Sansa to hail her as queen, but that’s not happening lmao. They’re trying way too hard with the Stark rivalry.
Fake scenes? Sure Kit, sure lmao. Maybe playing around with props between takes 😉
I find it difficult to believe some important characters will end up the same way in both mediums considering how much their storyline has changed. We’ll see.
Hodors Bastard,
I think I read today that George is executive producing a new show lmao.
its more than oficial, sophie is the dumbest actress like ever.
Morgoth,
And Hodor. And Harry Potter, too. I did forget, honest.
Yeah, “Who Fears Death” by Nnedi Okorafor is actually pretty damn amazing stuff…but…why…GRRM………????? Oh well, my head is bruised from wall-bashing.
I don’t doubt that they may have shot some fake stuff but I am skeptical that it was three full scenes that took fifteen hours.
Is it just me or does the included quote from Sophie about Jon & Sansa seem a little bit more in line with what we’ve seen and expect to see than some of the other things she’s said?
Please, not another Sansa-dislike thread! We had more than enough of them… I’m personally more interested in GRMM part here.
EDIT: As Clob said, the actress does make more sense this time.
Why there is NO information about the red carpet premiere?? last week missandei and a IGN reporter confirmed that will be this week, kit in this interview confirmed that will be TOMORROW. so??
where it will be?? where in LA?
What time??
who will be there??
Will be transmitted somewhere??
A black eye, care of a fight at McDonald’s defending a lady’s honour (!). He describes it here:
Not sure why you are complaining about him dressing up as other characters as at least 2(3 if you count white walkers) were male. Seems kind of silly
I lack a sense of humor, apparently 😛
But, seriously: there is a noticeable difference between the impressions. In the ones about the male characters the comedy is in mocking their characters (Hodor’s hodoring, Harry Potter being in another fantasy universe, a silly-looking White Walker.) For the impressions of the women, it’s all about their sex and gender; there’s no comedy about their characters, no actual impressions. It’s just… Hey, Kit with a wig and fake tits!
Luka Nieto,
I don’t understand why you cant have your own opinion about this? lol
The clip of Jimmy’s daughter admiring Kit was too cute. I thought the show was great last night.
Well, although I had hoped it wouldn’t happen, the continual Sophie interviews with statements about Sansa’s power playing and growth mean I’m gonna go ahead and predict Sansa dies this season.
Can we just appreciate Kit’s timing in comedy?! I thought he was hilarious as Cersei.
Clob,
First time they never brought a clip from the season with them…weird.
And Kit confirmed he shot 3 fake scenes in Spain so we might not see some stuff we’re expecting to see. In the Time magazine article even Benioff said only people working on the show knows what happens .
I seriously doubt they shot fake scenes. Too much work and too many time constraints.
Pigeon,
that’s what im thinking too
🙁
Always liked Victarion Greyjoy better than Euron, he seemed to more crazily colorful… and in the prose story more of an action figure . Kind of character I would have thought D&D would have picked up.
If it was going to be live streamed like last year then FB or some media outlet would have announced it by now. Looks like this will be a more private closed doors premiere this time around.
Who really cares about Penny, joncon, vic, or Arianne at this point? GRRM failed to make the new characters as compelling as previously introduced characters and thereby diluted the quality of his books by a large margin.
Honestly wish there’d been no Euron either but I guess whatever GRRM told them about him was important enough to necessitate his audition. Not so for these others – so good riddance.
I think he’s fudging the amount of time spent on ‘fake’ scenes, if there were any at all. 15 hours isn’t just for Kit and other cast, it’s of all the crew involved. They aren’t going to spend that kind of money on production trying to fool a very small amount of viewers who search for these things. And if they do, they can’t blame the lack of direwolf scenes on budget concerns. 😉
So just a quick ?
Would book readers respect/understand if GRRM said “I’ve lost interest in finishing the SoIaF series. I leave it in the capable hands of D and D. They have the energy and passion to deliver the rest of my story that I may not. I have other goals, projects, and ideas I would like to pursue.”
It is beyond annoying that he keeps stating how close TWOW is to being complete but he keeps taking on new projects. 2 years ago he said he was cancelling all con appearances and other projects so he could have more time to write and yet here we are still waiting.
Please save the also annoying GRRM is not your bitch quotes that Gaiman made. I don’t think he is my bitch, I just enjoy the story and would like to read the rest of it. But if its not coming, which I don’t think it is at this point, it would just be nice if he could accept it like the rest of us have.
I look forward the seeing the story unfold on GOT.
ps I know this conversation has been had many times before but as time keeps ticking, people’s opinions on the matter also change. And some just stop caring. Thanks
Pigeon,
Well, I think if by any case Sansa dies this season (which I very much doubt), it would be only in the case if she takes LF with her. That’s her fight… at least I see it that way. But I personally don’t believe she will die this season…
Pigeon,
Sansa is the number one character I expect to be alive at the end. She’s going to be Lady of some place(probably Winterfell). Elsewise, her entire apprenticeship under Littlefinger was fairly pointless.
I hope that gorgeous scene on the stairs wasn’t fake.
Making the 8,
If George can’t finish the books, he should hire a writer to finish them based on his outline. Didn’t he say, “the show is the show and the books are the books”? They will both be different.
Just get a capable writer to work on the book series and voila. Like all those other writers who work for James Patterson. It would be sadder for his legacy to never finish his magnum opus imo.
Inga,
Spoilerrrrrrrrr
LOL
Making the 8,
I haven’t read the books, but I do hope someone finishes them. I would love to read them all. All that to say, I will probably still read them even if book 6 and 7 don’t come out.
What has had me wondering for a while now, is why Sophie is referring to QITN so much, lately. It’s a phrase frequently banded around the fandom, which I don’t believe Sophie really follows. So I wonder if she has some knowledge of her forthcoming arc, or perhaps I’m over analysing.
Apollo,
She has twitter and probably checks her mentions. I bet you there are stans tweeting “Yaaas QITN” as I type.
Apollo,
I think she read my comment last year prior to season 6 airing where I predicated Season 6 would end with Sansa being proclaimed QITN.
I was so wrong.
Kidding.
I think she is using it because there is KITN… and she is female, so it would just be QITN
OMGGG
I laughed so hard at this.
SO TRUE HAHAHAHAHAHA
“YAAAAS QITN”
HAHAHA
For book readers, i think the absence of certain characters in the show, indicates their lack of importance in the books.
Nice interview kit and Jimmy’s daughter were adorable…
Shot fake scenes…I can think of couple of scenes which could be considered as fake…
But my favorite and what I considered most important scene was confirmed in the trailer where we see dany standing on stairs ..
Glad I was not the only one who didn’t like the skit or at least part of the skit…then again I also didn’t like what they did in volantis brothel house …
I care about penny hope she keeps giving hell to and beat the crap out of tyrion
I just feel bad for those who think that GRRm will finish the book series or when someone says he is writing last two books at the same time that’s why it’s taking such long ..i just say to them its what I thought during 2013-14 and now it’s 2017…
I must say I have always thought the betrayal of “bratty” Sansa was grating to the nerves and she’s come full circle and acting like a spoiled, brat once again because Jon was named King of the North. I’m not saying I don’t respect the acting job she has done portraying Sansa, but I really think the character is shallow. JMHO
Elizabeth
dragonbringer,
you are so bad at attempting to cover spoilerish stuff
I disagree. They’ve put too much into establishing Jon/Sansa discord to just drop it abruptly. I’m not saying either will flat-out betray the other(it really wouldn’t seem to be in either character’s nature, and the notion of a “heel turn” for Sansa seems kind of goofy), but I expect some dissension between the two to be an ongoing issue.
Dee Stark,
As I said its from the trailer I don’t see what’s spoiler in what I said…
Talking about the spoilers You know what I have a question to you about this thread but iam afraid that asking the question out loud will spoil you because you may not realize it yet and I don’t want to make you see what’s the actual spoiler here ..
ghost of winterfell,
I thought of those pictures right away too. They seemed a little goofy.
The pap photos in Spain were mostly at that one location. If we take out what could be three different scenes and a lot of fake filming there really wouldn’t be that much left considering the amount of time they were there and number of scenes we guess were done.
dragonbringer,
Yeah but you said most important scene – cause you know what is happening in said scene… bla bla.
hahaha I get really nervous. And I like to read your comments because I like your perspective on Dany (because I love her!)
Yeah I didn’t really catch EVERY detail from the trailer.. and I didn’t look at the breakdown created by WOTW either.
Luka Nieto,
Well he also did Hodor and Harry Potter. It was fine.
Since they cannot say almost anything about S7, I prefer a sketchy sketch than to read for the n-th time about Sansa’s role in season 7. Seriously, I don’t dislike Sansa, but there has been soooo much coverage about the sibling rivalry and her relationship with LF that I’m starting to roll my eyes when I see Sophie Turner… I hope they are leaving something of her character to surprise us! (I doubt it, though)
ghost of winterfell,
Yeah that one and other scene was one where we had kit at the center and front with Emilia and Nathalie at his side …
And we did have those Emilia peter and Colneth and Nathalie goofing around for paps…
🤓 Jaehaerys
dragonbringer,
I think I know what youre talking about.
The following is from the trailer.
Dee Stark,
I did say that its what i consider important it may not be that important or favorite for you. ..so dont need to worry or get neevous about it…and that image as been used for many threads here so i thought it was ok to speak about it .
Its amazing that you are not realizing whats the actual spoiler in this thread and i hope you don’t realize it for two more weeks …
even though I keep failing at it and say the same thing each time ..I will try to be carefull from next time
Dee Stark,
No dee its not that …although it’s actually surprising to all of us to see him go there do that…I don’t think any one of us expected that to happen…
I will remind you of what I was speaking about after episode 2 finished airing ..
Jack Bauer 24,
In our paper yesterday says LAs Walt Disney Concert Hall tomorrow. Doesn’t mean anything to me but I’m sure you have heard of it.
Or D&D’s indifference to them.
dragonbringer,
Haha okay!!! LOL!!!! DONT FORGET
Thank you Carole!
I can’t wait to see Penny’s new adventures, could one of the spin-off be about her?
Flayed Potatoes,
J
Once they find out that Jon isn’t a Stark, that might be more of a possibility, tho I kinda doubt it. They grew up togethre, it would be just too weird. Maybe
Making the 8,
Totally agree with this entire post. Just drop it already GRRM, really, your time has passed for you to get this done. Its not to say I wouldn’t read it if it comes out, but Im just not all that interested at the present time.
HunterMac87,
Not necessarily; I just really really hope Penny doesn’t pop up somewhere. So hated that entire part of the book.
Kit is good at comedic acting when the writing is good.
The writing in this case was pretty embarrassing.
Colbert > Meyers > Fallon > Conan > Corden > Kimmel.
It is known.
ash,
I’m definitely interested and hold out hope that both future books will come out.
Although, at this point, I need this site/community to still be active to fully enjoy the completion of ASoIaF.
In season 4 Tyrion is talks some of Sansa’s potential. When Tyrion is in jail he is trying to figure out who killed Joffery and someone suggest Sansa an Tyrion say’s “Sansa in not a murderer… at least not yet”. This could be a foreshadowing of Ramsey execution or maybe more in season 7.
Sansa talking about being Queen in the North I think has do with Littlefinger trying to ride Sansa’s coat tails climbing the ladder. Bran and Howland Reed know who Jon’s parents are and Littlefinger via his spiders might know this too… I bet Littlefinger won’t hesitate to use this info to plant seeds in Sansa’s mind to motivate Sansa to get what she thinks she is entitled to. That’s not a spoiler because I don’t know what happens in season 7, it is just my guess.
dragonbringer,
Love this! Dee, some people have your back, but you probably know that 🙂
ash,
I know that 🙂 Truly. You guys are the best
And I know Dragonbringer means no harm. I just get super nervous lol.
PS – I tried looking for the spoiler he is referring to but couldn’t find it. HAHA ya’ll probably laughing at me!
firstone,
Agree
I am just reallllllllllly dying to see – (trailer comment)
Dee Stark,
Sorry, Dee, I thought it was cryptic enough. Won’t happen again.
Inga,
I know I know..
sorry guys im overly nervous. ill stop hahaha
I have to admit you got me extra hyped (if that’s even possible)
Dee Stark,
I surely have your back Dee due to your constant positive attitude on this site. I’m pretty much unsullied when it comes to S7 and I’m only semi-aware of one spoiler which I very much expected… but overall, I’m heading into unknown, with most of the predictions being my own.
Dee Stark,
No not all as a matter of fact its not that obvious when you read the interviews…
I do wonder whether others realize what iam speaking about here or iam just making something out of nothing ..
Let me just ask those who know of every filming details ..don’t click this one dee
Rygritte,
Woah where are you when we were speaking about late night hosts..
I thought Kimmel doesn’t write his comedies… It used to be Sarah Silverman and now someone else right..
Lord Parramandas,
Yay!! thank you! 🙂 🙂
dragonbringer,
Haha okay!! 🙂
HunterMac87,
Possibly, yes, but it may be that their character arc has been given to one of the other main characters.
Flayed Potatoes,
No, they will not be as different as many seem to believe. The ending for all of the major characters will be the same as in the outline GRRM gave to D&D after Season 3. This has been a known fact for years and all of the executive producers have been quite consistent on that point. But this question wasn’t about the ending. It’s about how many of the events in recent seasons are actual spoilers from the unfinished books–a subject that that the producers have always been cagey on, especially after the backlash from D&D openly admitting that Shireen’s death in S5 was in fact a future book spoiler.
Obviously the events leading up to the ending will be different (for some characters more than others) due to divergences, combining plots with other characters, and cutting specific characters from the books–outside of certain major key moments from the show also occurring in the unfinished books in some shape or form, as GRRM finally confirms here. A lot of us had suspected as much, as some of the recent developments in the course of the show have been too pivotal to the overall ASoIaF story to be show-only. After Season 3, GRRM gave them a general road map to get to the endings he discussed based on what he knew about his unfinished writing, and as an executive producer he does still actively read and provide feedback on the scripts for each season. To use D&D’s words from a recent interview, they’re still operating in George’s wheelhouse.
“The books are the books and the show is the show” was GRRM’s typical response to people asking him if recent seasons of the show were spoiling TWoW or not–it was basically an attempt to deflect the question without going into specifics. After all, it’s not like GRRM was ever going to confirm what specifically is a spoiler and what is not. The significance of this interview was that he finally straight-up said, “Yes, some of the big stuff that has already happened in the show and that you’ll be seeing in Season 7 will be happening in the books, too.”
lol, got a good chuckle at the audition reel
Probably one of the things I’ve enjoyed most in recent years is the late night show sketches involving the cast, particularly the Carice Van Houten/Melisandre one and Kit/Jon Snow at dinner party one
As for the WoW, tricky to say, we are now in the territory of reverse engineering what happens in the books from the show plotline as opposed to scrutinising how the books are articulated in the show. Show Euron seems to be a cross between book Euron and book Victarion and show Beric seems to be in fan fiction territory North of the Wall
Azor Asshai,
Yes, but even if you get the outline ending on the show, you can only get the complete one in the books, so it would be good to just hire a writer to finish it. There probably are readers who are invested in plot points and characters that didn’t make the show or weren’t sufficiently developed, and other readers who are invested in supporting characters who made it in both show and books and want confirmation about their fate. For example, Cogman confirmed GRRM had no idea where to take Sandor’s story next, so the show had to make something up. We don’t know if Jorah or Theon will have the same ending, and I’m sure those characters have fans too and they’ve been on the show since season 1. So some things will definitely be different. 🙂
I should have clarified my comment, but that is what I meant.
Well, NOT entirely different, which is what George just said in the Not a Blog.
“Some things will be different, but the show will parallel the novels”
Which is another way of saying what D&D what always said: “Some things will be different but certain key plot elements will be the same”
Not that I expect that it will be much of an issue ultimately, however. I think the publication of WOW will occur within the next couple of years, but I think the chances that A Dream of Spring will ever see the light of day are pretty slim indeed…
dragonbringer,
Flayed Potatoes,
Well, in that case, we’re completely on the same page. Everything you said there is 100% true, particularly about the ambiguity surrounding some of the supporting cast–what Cogman said about GRRM’s lack of direction for Sandor is a really good example..and yes, there are definitely people invested in book-specific characters. For instance, should the books be finished, I’d actually be curious to see how the Young Griff storyline goes, especially after coming into play so late. Due to the show cutting that story arc, the show had no choice but to alter its portrayal of Varys by transforming him into a pure Dany loyalist, resulting in probably the single-biggest change of direction and character motivation from book to show (Dorne excluded).
dragonbringer,
Lurking. Sarah?! I don’t think so. Seth Meyers’ sketch was far superior.
that skit was terrible
Dee Stark,
Im curious about Sansa in that trailer too. The setting looks like the godswood at WF and based off Bran being a mile north of Castle Black in 6.10 I’m assuming Bran makes it home. I wonder if Bran could take Sansa back to the moment LF betrayed their father in the throne room. Maybe that look is recognition that she’s still been trusting him way more than she knows she should.
Who and where does this season start?
I think either a big sweeping entry to Dany arriving at Dragonstone
or
Maybe Bran arriving at the Wall
What are your thoughts?
I’ll politely disagree. A known fact in Hollywood? That’s a big maybe. I hope it is quite different and it demonstrates that varying outcomes can be derived from within “GRRM’s wheelhouse.” Maybe some of the characters will see a similar end but even LotR had a “scouring of the shire” that wasn’t attempted. They’ll respectfully leave many things out for GRRM to have the final say, imho.
Remember that tidbit from last year when GRRM stated that there was a twist he was developing that couldn’t be done in the show? Those sort of things give me hope that we will not be reading a rehash of the show. I think how each milestone plays out matters as well. For example, Dany’s east to west migration. Given how much GRRM put into ADwD regarding the difficulties of sea voyages (even Vic lost 50% of his fleet!), do you honestly think that something won’t happen to Dany’s fleet (if it survives the Meereen battle) as she travels west? Heck, she’ll have trouble getting past the Stepping Stones! Plus, think of the unconsolidated Redwyne/Tyrell/Martell/GreyJoy/Lannister/GoldenCo clusterfuck that will meet her forces when she arrives. Talk about another knot that the show will simplify! Asha/Theon’s and Sansa/Brienne/Jaime’s milestones will be very different as well.
And in the end, Penny shall emerge and kick the NK’s distracted ass with a piece of obsidian. Vive la différence!!! 🙂
Azor Asshai,
I’m intrigued about YG as well, as he is also a foil to some of the main characters and what he’s going to be involved in will have some major repercussions. I also know a lot of people who want to know what’s up with Bloodraven and how he’ll affect Bran, given that we never got Bloodraven’s background in the show, and others who want to know how Sansa’s Vale arc will progress, given the relationships and other things she’s involved with. Not to mention book Euron is much more dangerous in the books and has potential to really fuck things up. Dany’s voyage will also probably be much more difficult in the books. There are a lot of things that will be changed.
Hodors Bastard,
You seem to be exaggerating some of what I said. Yes, certain key events have been spoiled and will unfold essentially the same way in the books–GRRM has confirmed that–but nowhere did I say anything about the unfinished books being a complete rehash of the show. If you read the entire post you’ll see that I did acknowledge the fact that that’s not even possible. Characters have been combined, cut, certain storylines have been altered in some rather significant ways. It’s impossible for the books to rehash the show at this point and there’s a lot they can elaborate on..and yes, there’s that “big twist the show can’t do anymore” that GRRM floated in order to attract attention to TWoW, but we don’t know the specifics of that.
As far as the ending goes, however, they have indeed been consistent on that if you’ve been following interviews with the producers ever since Season 3. You can hope that it will be different if you want, sure, but outside of some of the supporting cast–some of whom GRRM did not have a clear plan for at the time he revealed this information to D&D–their fates will be the same. Read the most recent interview with D&D that was just posted under the latest headline on this site for more on this. They outright state they had 90% of the ending set in stone after their discussion with GRRM on the subject, which they actually had even earlier than I thought they did. Those are their words, not mine. In many cases they’ve been planning for it since very early on in the show–but they also acknowledge that due to George’s “gardener” writing style he wasn’t sure what became of some of the supporting non-POV characters, and because of that they had to figure some things out on their own and they’re looking forward to seeing what becomes of them in the books along with the rest of us.
Assuming the books are ever finished, anyhow, but that’s another subject altogether.
I like your idea of Bran arriving at the Wall! It would be a real callback to 101, which began with Will, Gared and Waymar going north of the Wall. Instead of seeing them go through the tunnel and then under the raised gate, we could see Bran come under the raised gate and through the Wall.
It’s the journey that matters, not the destination. And these are two diverging stories. If a similar ending is reached via a different journey, you are a different person and the world is a different place. Butterfly effects. I won’t be dissuaded on that matter.
And yes, I did read your entire post. It was well-stated. I was politely disagreeing with your first few sentences, which I quoted. Personally, I don’t 100% believe either D&D and GRRM on anything they say…they say things to appease the media and the fans. Regardless of what they say, D&D have placed their stamp on the tale and are running amok with it.
Btw, Ten Bears has a beef with AA being the TPtwP. You need to chime in. 🙂
Given the nature of these stories, that seems improbable. I am still betting that it is going to be a story about choosing your enemies: and given Sansa’s and Jon’s very different experiences, they are going to have very different ideas as to whether the Northern Front or Southern Front is more important.
True, but only in general terms, not the specifics. If you can describe the main characters arcs in the same general terms in two versions of a story, then they are telling the same story. Of course, that is what makes it two versions of the same story.
Again, it’s Great White Shark and T. rex: we need this to be the same a the level of apex predator, not at the level of gills vs. lungs, fins vs. feet, walking vs. swimming, etc. Literature and screen demand differences comparable to sea and land, or you just get a large stinking corpse washed up on the beach. (The first two Harry Potter films are a great example of that!)
I think this is unlikely to happen in the shows given how the prophecies are deemphasized, but I’ve always wanted the west-to-go-east and the sun-rises-in-the-west prophecies in the books to describe Dany flying Drogon from Essos so fast in the westerly direction that she chases and overtakes the sunset, making the sun actually rise and eventually set behind her before she lands on Westeros.
Two stories diverged in the woods, and I–
Much and more both traveled by,
Little and less was all the difference.
Alba Stark,
oh nice I hadn’t put that symmetry together; seeing as this is the beginning of the end I like that opening even more now. Make it a “cold” open too, pun intended, I believe the original opening went before the intro
Oh….Hemingway and Frost in a double whammy! 🙂
Although many disagree, I don’t see Dany returning to Westeros with much fanfare in the books. Her armies will be disoriented, tired and sick after the months long journey. And she’ll meet substantial resistance…initially…then many will do what Torrhen did…after being threatened by dragonfire. And she’ll have a multi-army/navy to deal with near KL too…if YG/JC/GC are still in the picture.
Between you and me (don’t tell anyone), I must say that I’m a bit frustrated that Dany is arriving at Dragonstone via rowboat instead of her air force. I think that trailer picture is silly. :/
Hodors Bastard,
Once again you focus on wrong things..
Let’s take dany sailing to westeros and see what could be the difference in both books and show…
There won’t be varys and there will be jorah ..she may have barristan too…
There will be handmaidens and bloodriders
There won’t be yara and theon..
Dany will have fleets from volantis and possibly also from Qarth and pentos..
Dany may start her voyage from pentos ..
Its also possible that aurane waters join dany ..
But you focus on the one thing that should happen for sure which is the success of the voyage ….after spending 6 books building up to it… No one will do things like …if so I would expect Jon snow to be dead and gone and edd to take over from him..
In the books we will see lots of dany flying drogon moments but we won’t see it the show…
I too would have liked dany reaching dragonstone first followed by her fleet but then again I wished that season 5 dany’s arc end like how ADWD ended with dany. ..
The point is we should not worry whether or not dany is arriving at Dragonstome via row boat or Dragons but what we should actually take away from it is that dany will take Dragonstone and start her campaign from there …
Jenny,
Thank you that’s what I thought as well..
Kit as Harry Potter? And I thought I already saw everything. LoL!
Hodors Bastard,
It really wouldn’t be practical to arrive via air force. The process would be quite awkward: Find an island or rock large enough for Drogon to land on, get in a rowboat with a couple of other people, row to said island or large rock, mount Drogon, wait patiently while people in rowboat return to ship in order to arrive as a group.
(I know, I know. Why am I thinking of practicalities? LOL.)
She’s respected, but not enough to be hailed Queen of the North like she kind of hoped at the end of last season
All the people who said her smile at Jon proved she was truly happy for him being crowned king while the rest of us more or less saying no she was just being polite but inside was disappointed?
I won’t say it. Bites tongue 🙂
GeekFurious,
What would be the point of them faking us out on this though?
ghost of winterfell,
I will be so very disappointed if that is fake.
King in the North Carolina,
I agree. There would be no reason to keep talking in this manner, from last season on to this one, just to say “psych!” Or whatever gotcha word the kids use these days.
GoT S6 showed us a version of a tidy wrapup for Meereen. TWoW will be much more taxing. Chaos throughout Slavers Bay, Dysentery Dany is staring down Khal Jhaqo in the Dothraki Sea, Vic is entering the Meereen chaos, R&V are flying around snatching flung corpses from the air and armies are not fleeing because of dragons. How is anything building toward success yet? I don’t see the brilliant buildup for a Westeros invasion yet but I’ll take your word for it. I just don’t believe the show is an indication of the health status of her army/navy buildup at all. Too tidy. We’ll see.
One thing the show did get right is that Dany flew to Meereen first. That is how she will precede the Westeros invasion as well. And chaos will await her.
Climbing onto Drogon is going to be the awkward part? 🙂 Speaking of practicalities, let’s see the logistics: Dany’s force has to snake around Valyria, do a forced resupply in Volantis, another in Lys, sneak their way through the Stepstones, resupply in Tyrosh, avoid navies and pirates in the Narrow Sea, resupply in Pentos, then figure out where to plan the invasion so that horses and forces don’t have to swim…it needs to be a formal dock.
This issue’s been debated to death on other sites. Where will the Dothraki, Ironborn, Unsullied and others come ashore? In separate areas? From the trailer, it looks like the Dothraki and Ironborn will be taking different routes.
I think it would be very practical to get on Drogon and have a look around and plan ahead. In fact, I am really looking forward to how they do this on Sunday!
I hope you’re right. I was done with this plot the minute Littlefinger gave her the side eye at Jon’s “coronation”. I sincerely hope it is not something they spend any amount of time on. Winter is coming! Bah!
Jenny,
Oh noes. That interview with the sports host when he asks about a Jon Snow spin off Kit says he thinks that would be too morbid. That’s confirmation to me that Jon Snow probably dies next season.
ygritte,
What interview?
jjddss,
Everyone can’t stand the idea of what Sophie and others involved are talking about the tension between Starks, etc but personally, I prefer to watch story unfold with the human drama, not all that interested in “getting on with it” for the all out white walker war tbh. I like the relationship dynamic stuff more so.
Nicolaj is such a charmer. https://youtu.be/O3BAAvPPmRs
Pigeon,
Lmao he has no chill.
His daughter is adorable.
ygritte,
Or he turns into a white walker 🙂 . Joking. I wouldn’t take these interviews that seriously, I doubt any of the actors know how the story will end, yet. They will know only once they get the season 8 scripts. Which interview was this btw?
ygritte,
ghost of winterfell,
This interview!
https://youtu.be/E9F6LPWrsIA
It’s really good, even if Kit is being evasive as usual. He follows up the idea that a Jon Snow spin off would be too morbid with “because he’s so dour” or something of the same, so I wouldn’t take it as confirmation for anything, lol.
It seems like yesterday was press junket day. There’s a lot of small interviews and pictures with various cast members on social media, Extra TV being one of them:
Nikolaj and Gwen:
https://twitter.com/extratv/status/884920983643013120
Kit also did an hour long talk at Wall Street Journal yesterday, I hope it was recorded.
Was about to post but I see Sundae got it 🙂
ygritte,
Oh haven’t seen this new interview before. Thank you 😀
Sundae, Flayed Potatoes,
I heard about the Wall st. journal one but haven’t seen it anywhere yet. I thought it weird because aren’t they business and finance? Everyone gets in on the action of this show lol. I wish Kit was able to tell what his theory on the end game is. He seems pretty sure he’s got it sorted and I’m curious. On the other hand, do you think they really are kept in the dark in case they accidentally slip anything? It seems the relationships would be to the point now that if asked, D&D would spill it.
ygritte,
First of all loved that interview.And I didn’t take that comment that way at all.He meant it that Jon is too broody for a spinoff lol.I don’t think Kit knows how season 8 ends yet.
ygritte,
I don’t know but I have a feeling Kit has got it wrong haha.I don’t think the actors know the ending yet.I have always believed the main actors do know for how long they will be in the show so I don’t buy what Kit says that he was unsure for two weeks if he would be back.I think in the beginning they told him he would be needed for the full run of the show.Same with Emilia,Peter etc.I think if they do ask D&D they might tell how it ends but I don’t think they have.I think they prefer to read it to get the full scope.
Sundae,
Thank you for the link! Kit always gives great interviews.
Jenny,
I know 🙂 My immediate thought was morbid=death as in a hybrid human/WW form sort of like Benjen, but I quickly realized it is just how Kit likes to use self deprecating kind of humor when it comes to Jon sometimes. Are you going to watch the new movie with him and Carice called “Brimstone” when it comes out on cable? I believe he only has small supporting role and Carice is one of the leads.
ygritte,
Oh yeah definitely I always watch things that Kit is in.Can’t wait for Gunpowder.
ygritte,
I only managed to find a fan account on tumblr (lol I know) from someone who attended the event. Said it was a great interview and Kit mentioned his theory which idk. He’s had a lot of theories as far as the show goes.
http://corinnestark.tumblr.com/post/162889098165/so-i-went-to-this-wall-street-journal-sponsored
The interview was one hour, so I’m sure Kit talked about a bunch of other stuff too. Hope it’s uploaded on YouTube or something.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yay you found it! Thanks for posting. Hey, tumblr can be very useful in these matters, no shame in utilizing it lol.
Hodors Bastard,
We have had this discussions before and the show kept proving me in things I was sure of…things that I thought as most obvious and where the story will go …
1) that dany will spend time with khalasar
2) she will be the one to unite them by her own display of strength ( not drogon)..so that we can know clear who will be Stallion
3)that dany will for sure return to meereen…meereen is dany’s arc and she must be the one to resolve it not by someone who just came..
4) that dany will have the volantis fleet …
5) Dany will be landing at Dragonstone first and use it as a base..
And not just for dany ..the same applies for Jon as well…
I have never seen him in danger …for me is path is clear going forward….I was also the only one who was saying that his resurrection won’t be like what happened with dany but it will just be a personal thing for him to struggle and adjust …
I have also believed that dany will face ceesei and not YG when she comes ..but never really thought of cersei crowning herself …
I always knew that stannis and YG will doe in TWOW..and show only seems to confirms it..
I knew arya would leave the faceles men..
Dany won’t be feeding tyrion to her dragons …sansa will return to winter fell with KOTv ..
There are only few things that was surprising such as Hold the door and bran leaving the cave …
Sure the books will do this things more differently and detailed manner but these things will happen in the books .
Sundae,
Flayed Potatoes,
Thanks so much for these!!
Flayed Potatoes,
Oh, thank you! Sounds like it was great. Smaller discussion with actors often bring out the best answers, rather then big cons.
Can’t say I agree with him in his theory, but I think it’s amazing they’re basically doing the same as us, trying to figure out the ending… and soon they will know! Or maybe only those involved in like the final scenes get the scripts for that, wouldn’t surprise me if D&D wants to keep the suspense lol
Flayed Potatoes,
Thanks! I don’t think his theory will be proved right though..
Wow, what a great interview!
Pretty sure he said “the piss,” which is quite a bit different from taking a piss.
So, Tyrion. On the Iron Throne. And Kit is ever-so-confident. I can’t see it, not the final one on the throne, at least. And I don’t see the series at all through Tyrion’s eyes. Bran is the narrator, but he’s not one to sit the throne, either.
At this point, the book will almost have to be largely a rehash of the TV series. Look at it this way.
1) the 6th season was based on what GRRM told B&W was going to happen 24 months ago and what he (Martin) hoped to send to the publishers 19 months ago;
2) not rehashing the show would require major rewrite; and,
3) GRRM is a glacially slow writer;
it staggers credulity to think that the novel could differ in anything other than trivial details from what GRRM told B&W it was going to be 24 months ago. It’s almost a tautology: if GRRM could write fast enough to so heavily and thoroughly revise WoW to pull off a 2017 submission, then we would have read WoW when George W. Bush still was president! (OK, maybe in the early Obama years: but, hey, hyperbole is fun!)
But here is the other big issue: GRRM cannot wreck his own story. There are big events in Winter that he has been setting up since the early novels. These events clearly are going to be big stepping-stones for Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, etc. leading to the final dilemmas that will clinch the story. At this point, we are dealing with basic developmental constraints: there are very few things that GRRM can do that fit in with what he already has developed AND that will get him to where he wants to be in the end. His hands are tied: and Martine tied them himself in the late 1990s. As he has noted many times, he knew the beginning and where to go, but how to get there was the challenge: but the choices he made early began to seriously limit the acceptable routes.
Now, there might be trivial differences. This “plot twist” for some character that could not be done on the show no doubt will be such an example, as it clearly does not involve one of the Big Five protagonists and might even involve a character so unimportant as to not be in the series currently. There are irrelevant side characters in the books such as Arianne, the Dumb Greyjoy Uncle, etc. However, when Daeny, Jon, Tyrion, etc., are in those big “Effed if you do, Effed if you do not” climax moments, none of that is going to be relevant. Heck, chances are really good that the stuff slowing GRRM down will not even be known to the important characters when it all ties together!
Yeah, of course GRRM, please remind us about such glorious charcters like Penny and self-indulgent, superfluos storylines of Arianne Martell, whose most interesting feature are her impressive areolae…
And if YG is just a paper dragon (meaning fake), I will be very dissappointed, because then it is all some staged filler (materials and patterns which kept increasing since “Feast for crows”)
I miss Victarion though… and the TV series’ Euron is visually most underwhelming…
The books could have been out for years, if some of those characters and side stories would have been omitted…
So why isn’t “Winter” out yet?
– Words are winds, let’s eat some sweet neeps and rejoice with our leal servants before more cruel japes arrive late…
ygritte,
Ooo, not me. I’m all about the action. The best thing about the trailer, for me, is Jon cutting down the Wight and then rising to face the horde. Haha. I love well done action and battles. But I understand a large part of the show is the human drama, as you say. I hope both of us are hugely satisfied. 😊
ygritte,
This Brimstone movie is a pretty difficult watch. You have been forewarned! Haha. Not fun.
dragonbringer,
Wimsey,
Cool! Schooled by a bunch of folks in one thread. Mission accomplished.
Hooray for the one percent probability of success! Why oh why did I take GRRM’s and D&D’s “butterfly effects” comments so seriously? We’ll see. When Penny and YG share the crown, I’ll come rappin’ on your door… 🙂 (I do love to get you folks riled up)
Hodors Bastard,
I must say, I was a wee bit jeally when Dragonbringer was adamantly disagreeing with you. I thought I was DB’s only agitator.
More interviews!
Kit Harington, Richard Dormer and Liam Cunningham chat with Access Hollywood
Kit Harington with Mario Lopez
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau with Jimmy Kimmel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbKav7HDv2I
Wow, I can’t believe so many people actually like Penny’s character! She was by far the worst addition to ASoIaF for me as a reader.
I’m sure the big end points will be similar between the books and the show, but there’s going to be massive differences in how things get resolved. There are so many more characters in the books, that there’s no way the two will closely mirror each other.
heh, it won’t work! You long ago revealed yourself to be a rational and sensible person with a sense of humor!
Besides, it seems that for every loony idea that you like, you have 4-5 good ones that you like. That’s a damned good ratio in this world for anything, never mind a TV/book series.
At any rate, you get 50 Internet points for correctly “jealous” correctly: most of the time, people really mean “envious.” Use them wisely.
Really? I found Penny was absolutely innocuous. I would not have included her on the TV show, but she actually had a small purpose in the books: she shows Tyrion the “butterfly effect” (to follow Hodor’s Illegitimate Child!) of him still being alive. And, of course, it is one more thing to make Cersei look awful and stupid at the same time. However, the TV show has made Cersei only dumb, not blitheringly moronic, and I think that this detail would have slowed down the TV show.
However, in the books this could be done without slowing down the narrative too much: Tyrion and Penny were able to interact during other situations without slowing down things too much. (There is a second issue of the “hiccup” to Tyrion’s storyline: but I now would solve that by cutting out the YG stuff, which is pre-Penny.)
I was a little more disappointed to see YG cut, as I was one of those nutjobs arguing that he was still alive back when Bill Clinton was president. However, I also was expecting GRRM to be a lot more succinct in his plotting: even if YG does give Daenerys a good “Value A or Value B?!?” moment in Winter, I suspect that it won’t be worth it at this point. I mean, being correct is only worth it if there is some net improvement to the world, right?
Surely, you must have got that logic reversed somehow. As always, appreciate the feedback! 🙂
I count 3 people in this thread who care about the great and illustrious Penny. That is a proud ‘many.’ The rest cast doubt but fear not, SHE will rise from Viserion’s fiery wrath and tame the beast, then ride toward the west, collect the suffering, diseased, homeless and unWimseyed and lead them to the Promised Land. It is my honor to serve as her armor bearer and pigkeeper.
Well, many people would reconcile that with the statement: “consider the source!” 😛
Jjddss,
Omg I know, I read about it earlier! Not my cup of tea I think. Did you find yourself looking away at many scenes? How was Kit as a cowboy, accent?
Jjddss,
I agree, I’m sure we’ll be satisfied on both fronts 🙂 I very much like action scenes too, depending on whose involved and how it’s choreographed. Hardhome was good because of the overall dynamics at that point in time, but another similar battle now wouldn’t thrill me unless we got more of the backstory of the WW’s. I might eat my words if/after we see one though:)
Ginevra,
I don’t see how it could be through Tyrion’s eyes either. At all really. Wonder what makes him so confident about it? Although he’s been trhough season 7 and we haven’t seen it….but nahhh.
I am 100% convinced Sansa will order Jon Snow’s death one day.
So GRRM confirming the show and tWoW will parallel with exceptions of minor characters, I was half tempted to venture over to Westeros.org and watch the melt down by some of the contributors over there just for some amusement. I think it’s pretty clear the show is hitting the main plot points but at time merging story lines and changing some of the detail to get there – hence cutting out minor characters.
Anyway on a more positive note only two days until the premiere! 😀
Inga,
Considering there was a promotion still of a character overlooking that view, in that same outfit I doubt it. The dragon heads one I think was fake, the actors were just laughing the whole time and playing with each others clothes lol