We’re in a lull, people — filming news on Season 8 has slowed to a crawl as post-production is underway (although we’ve gotten some intriguing tidbits about the prequels), and we’re no closer to a release date than we were months ago. And aside from the Emmys on Monday night that resulted in some fun sound bites, cast and crew have been tight-lipped in interviews, lest they give away anything crucial about the final season. But was a recent interview with Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont) different?
On its face, the answer is “Not really,” but that might not be entirely true. When asked by the Express who he would like to see on the Iron Throne, Glen predictably said Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) — but then threw a possible curveball by saying, “You might be surprised by the obvious, though.”
When I first read this interview, that line didn’t strike me as terribly important — and there’s still a good chance it isn’t. But looking at it in the context of what’s been said in other interviews by cast members over the last year, it stands out as unusual choice of words. Most cast members, from the biggest players to those behind the scenes, have remained understandably cryptic, recycling the same lines in interviews: “It’s hard to please everyone,” “There’s lots of surprises,” “It was hard to say goodbye to the show,” etc. No one has suggested in such a specific way that our obvious (or arguably the most popular) choice for ruler of Westeros doesn’t end up on the Iron Throne after all. Or we could just be reading too much into this.
Speaking of Clarke, however, it seems as though the Mother of Dragons wants to remember her time with Game of Thrones — specifically, for the rest of her life. She recently posted a photo on Instagram of a minimalist tattoo on her wrist of three flying dragons.
You know what they say: don’t get anyone’s name tattooed on you except for your children’s.
Hodor…
I think a lot of people assume Dany won’t be Queen in the end. Me being one of them, so it’s not surprising to hear, though it IS a bit surprising to hear it from Ian himself.
The obvious is Jon or Daenerys?
Dany surviving and ruling Westeros is my least favorite possible outcome, I think, short of everyone dying.
Firannion,
Out of curiosity, what’s your favorite possible outcome?
One of the dragons on her tattoo (the middle one) seems to have gotten the short end of the stick.
Didn’t Williams or Turner suggest that people whose characters made it all the way to the end were going to get tattoos or was it just those who were in all of the seasons?
Wait, doesn’t Iain’s quote say the opposite of what this article is saying? Am I missing something?
“You might be surprised by the obvious” would mean to me that the obvious WOULD be happening, not that it wouldn’t. But that’s just what I would take it to mean.
Meaningful social change, with better days ahead for the smallfolk. A transitional form of government, moving away from feudalism. A proto-parliament, preferably with Tyrion as prime minister, perhaps a figurehead monarch (who might be a minor requiring a regent). The seven kingdoms becoming more of a loose federation of allies with greater local autonomy. Peace at last, prosperity on the way, plenty of government and business support for the arts and artisans and explorers and scholars, laying the groundwork for a Renaissance. The Iron Throne melted into a nonrepresentational sculptural blob that is Planetos’ first foray into modern art.
And of course, at least a few of our favorite characters still alive and reasonably happy.
Is this too much to ask?
The actors lie through their teeth about who will end up on the Iron Throne. Natalie Dormer predicted her daughter with Tommen would end up on the Iron Throne. This was during Season 6 when Natalie was well aware of the Sept explosion.
BTW, do you think that HBO will leak any additional hints about the season or are we going to be in the dark until the first real trailer drops? I’m in serious GOT withdrawal and would like some more spoilers!
Firannion,
All of that could possibly happen under Dany’s rule with Tyrion as Hand. Is that likely to happen however? Probably not.
I think what you wrote is what many wish to happen at the end, though.
I’m probably in the minority when I say that I don’t see Dany dying at all. It’s a strong possibility but it’s not one I believe in. I’ve always thought Jon had the bigger death flag attached to him and his beliefs. I think Dany’s foundation of what a monarch is will resoundingly change, but I believe she’ll make it out of the war unscathed.
Mr Derp,
I think it looks good. Here’s a better look at it.
https://twitter.com/yeahclarke/status/1042618517370089472
Azor Ahai plunging his fiery sword into Nissa Nissa’s chest as she screams in ecstacy and forges Lightbringer, the essosi tales of the red comet splitting in half and one half shattering one of the moons during an eclipse….I think it’s metaphor (thanks to LuciferMeansLightbringer for this idea) for Jon and Dany gettin’ it on, and their kiddo is ‘Lightbringer’. Dany’s death in Childbirth is the fucked up ‘twist’ that Emilia Clarke was referencing, ie her comment ‘..thats all she is..’.
Somehow this kid is the union of Ice and Fire(and more fire), and undoes the breaking of the world that occured when the Bloodstone Emperor murdered his sister the Amethyst Empress and caused the long night. Probably not literally, as GRRM loves the metaphors.
I think however, that at the end the messed up seasons are fixed, the Others retreat, the Wall melts, and the Wildlings can actually find out what not-snow is like for 2-3 months a year.
Marwyn the Mage in the books talks about how an ‘age of wonder and terror is coming, the Old Powers are awakening’. So the theories about Dragons all dying out and magic going extinct are probably B.S. If anything, Valyrian (and other) magic is coming back strong, and with it, the terrifyingly Lovecraftian like ‘Old Powers’ are as well.
Pigeon,
I have the same interpretation. It actually may be more surprising if Jon, Daenerys, or both survive than it is if they die. Most predictions I’ve seen (as well as most fleaks) are of one or both dying. Tyrion serving as Targ baby’s regent is a trendy endgame guess. I’d personally hate it, but Tyrion hasn’t had anything to do in the past few seasons and that is the only thing I can think of as to why he is still on the show.
Firannion,
I also want this ending, and it’s one not many fans share, as far as I’ve seen. I believe Tensor the Mage (I’m not writing the rest of that name) also said something similar in a different post. If I can’t get that complete move away from the monarchy by the end of GoT, I also at least want a symbolic destruction of the Iron Throne at the end of S8.
Dany is too invested in her sense of dynastic power. Unless all her dragons are killed, I don’t see her being willing to share it with lesser mortals. I think Westeros needs to leave behind the paradigm of a supreme central monarch whose ‘right’ to rule becomes hereditary. Time for the Dark Ages to be over.
Ian,
“Old powers waken. Shadows stir. An age of wonder and terror will soon be upon us, an age for gods and heroes.”
Firannion,
I think with magic returning in full force, the ‘Dark Ages’ are just beginning. People want the Iron Throne to be destroyed, but with the coming ‘wonders and terrors’ I think getting rid of absolute Monarchy is going to be people’s LAST concerns. Survival will be all anyone cares about.
Dany’s Dragons aren’t the last, they came from the Shadowlands north of Asshai, where Dragons still live.
the Magic of the Church of Starry Wisdom, the Valyrian Fire Magic, Aeromancy, Pyromancy, Blood Magic, etc. are all returning in full force.
GRRM is a HUGE fan of HP Lovecraft; in that extended Mythos, there’s a god named ‘Ghrond’ that takes the form of a firey comet. as it passes by planets, it sings a song of power and madness, awakening any Great Old Ones that lie sleeping deep within it.
the Red Comet awoke the Old Powers, Dany was somehow inspired to do the forgotten rituals in the right sequence to awaken the baby dragons within their fossilized eggs.
The Others might be stopped, the magically messed up season might get fixed; but I think shit on Planetos is about to go chaotically sideways at the end, and that’s why GRRM said no more books after this series. The Apocalypse is about to begin.
“You might be surprised by the obvious, though.”
Jon and Daenerys daughter aka: “The Princess that was promised”… “The Last Targaryen”
The Queen of the Seven Kingdoms
I love Emilia’s enthusiasm and her new tattoo! Good choice. 🙂
firstone,
I’d personally hate the ending of Jonerys baby being queen after her parents’ deaths. I’m invested in the main characters surviving, not their personality-free child ending up as the ruler. I’d be fine with Jon/ Dany dying as long as they come up with something more creative than offspring becomes a child monarch.
Firannion,
Season 8 will be very important to Dany’s character I’m sure. She’s already started loosening up once she encountered Jon, and after going beyond the wall to save the suicide excursion, I think we see another important pivot in her character. So I think slowly but surely we’re seeing Dany’s dramatic change into a monarch that actually shows competency and agency without the extra haughtiness.
And yes, I believe that by the end of the series all of her dragons will be gone.
That’s why I’m excited in particular to see where her story arc is going to go. Hers is one of those arcs that could go in any direction.
got_tv_fan,
I also think Sansa Stark will be Queen Regent of the Seven Kingdoms until The princess the was promised is proclaimed Queen of the Seven Kingdoms… 🙂
let me try to collect things Tyrion had to do after his daddy’s terminal defecation:
– get in contact with Dany by being kidnapped by Jorah, being a slave and finally presenting himself as the gift the banned-from-everywhere-he-goes and chronically heartbroken knight has brought to win back the trust of his beloved Khaleesi. one thing done.
– save Missandei from being killed. no Tyrion stopping the killer at the fighting pit = no one left to list all of dany’s titles without teleprompter. two things done.
– win Dany’s trust and finally be named hand of the queen. three things done.
– help Dany value her mission over her lover, thus making Michiel Huisman available for other productions. four things done.
– reanimate public life in Mereen by finding a deal with the belenovent… belenovent… (Peter Dinklage from the off: “fuck me, i nearly had it”)… whatever masters of Astapor and the other slaver dickheads. five things done.
– suggest an “alternative approach” to burning down the slavers’s fleet and their cities which results in Dany finally having her Armada. six things done.
– succesfully invite Jon Snow to Dragonstone. seven things done.
– unwillingly weaken Dany’s forces by having a nice battle plan – but two smart opponents in Jamie and Euron. eight things done.
– order a specimen of undead people in order to convince his mad sister of the real important things to care about. nine things done.
– arrange the Dragon Pit meeting by sneaking into a city where everyone loves: the price promised for his head. ten things done.
– risk his life another time by trying to talk sense into Cersei after the big conference failed. eleven things done.
did i even mention the drunk non-Targaryen dwarf who freed two of Dany’s children?
anyway, i agree on this: i’d be pissed off if the show degrades one of it’s most intelligent and human characters to a standby-babysitter.
All these scenarios about Dany & Jon’s offspring being “The Prince that was Promised” and “Azor Ahai” come to defeat the Others, yada yada presuppose that the six (6) episodes of Season 8 will have to cover a span of 15-20 YEARS, to allow the kid to gestate, be born, and grow up to become “The Last(est) Hero.”
Perhaps it’s just me, but I think it’s even LESS romantic/heroic to die in childbirth than in fighting to protect some charismatic character, which is not at all. I’m not happy that so many fans want their selected characters to go out those ways.
I’ve never seen any indication that GRRM is much of a Lovecraftian, in terms of influence on his work. I’d be curious to know your source for that belief. Is there an interview you can point us to?
In any case, I think an apocalyptic ending is one of the least likely possible scenarios. Why invest so much energy in character-building if you’re just going to wipe everybody off the map at the end? That just doesn’t make my writey-sense tingle at all.
But time will tell whose guess comes closest. I was responding to Clob’s question re: what type of ending I’d prefer, not what I thought was most likely. And maybe you are doing the same?
All that being said, I do hope that, in the books, Marwyn’s extensive magical knowledge proves important. He’s an intriguing character.
Sounded like the opposite to me
The Deep Ones and the Drowned God are direct Lovecraft references. Also if you check out the maps of Essos and Sothoryos they’re filled with Lovecraftian references.
And George has been talking about his love of Lovecraft since the 1970s
https://www.quora.com/How-has-the-writing-of-H-P-Lovecraft-influenced-George-R-R-Martins-epic-series-A-Song-of-Ice-and-Fire
I started the following comment right away and then I went to a long lunch that I just got back from. I was thinking it was an odd statement too.
I personally think that’s a weird way to phrase it if he was implying that we could be surprised to not have Daenerys on the throne. One could read that as if he’s saying there’s someone else that’s obvious that could be king/queen, but we wouldn’t expect it so we would be surprised. *shrug*
As far as I’m concerned the only “obvious” ones would be Jon and/or Daenerys. I don’t think others are obvious at this point but they certainly wouldn’t be surprising, especially when so many don’t really expect one or both of J&D to live, and still question whether one or both will rule even if alive at the end.
Firannion,
George,
What if the obvious is that there will be no Iron Throne in the end.
Or maybe season 8 will shift some characters in a different perspective. Maybe in the end Cercei won’t be so bad, and she will be in fact the queen (not likely).
Maybe Dany won’t get pregnant, but in fact will raise Cercei’s baby in the end as one of her own. There’s a lot of posibilities.
My random crazy theorie: Dany will die, (maybe even Jon) and Arya will take her face and rule. That can be something “obvious” and the whole Arya journey in Braavos would make a lot more sense end-game-wise.
Firannion,
We know that a lot of the plots are inspired by history, epecially of England. Last night I was thinking about the republic of Oliver Cromwell in England. I think some thing like that could happen in the end,
Some kind of parlimentary republic with a Lord Protector of the Realm.
You can find online the movie from 1970, It’s a bit kitch but stil inspiring.
Rhaegal ends up on the throne, dragons rule Westeros.
Guys, this interview tells us nothing whatsoever. Nada. Not one thing.
I think it was Maisie, while talking about the matching tattoos she and Sophie got two years ago. If I recall correctly, she said that all the first season characters who made it to season eight, would get a “making the eight” tattoo.
Frankly about Iain’s interview, I fail to be excited about it. Growing cynicism, currently enhanced by severe jet leg, has led me to doubt everything the actors say. Whether they’re lying, obfuscating, teasing, trolling, or speaking from general cluelessness about was going on in the subtext, they tend to be misleading. Writers and directors are not much better.
By the way, today I walked into a post office, and asked if they had any more Game of Thrones commemorative stamps. They did and I bought a set! Also, I am going to a certain theatre production in London towards the end of October. If I ever get over the jet lag. Cheers to all , SRR.
House Monty,
Yeah lol, I read the article at least half a dozen times and I still don’t understand that interpretation of Iain’s quote.
Here’s my guess 9/20/18
Tyrion or Bronn or Jamie light a fuse to torch the Red Keep while at the same time Jon stops Daenerys and stabs her in the heart with Longclaw.
The Red Keep is torched…. Jon killed Daenerys with Longclaw – The wildfire kills (The son of Fire – The Warrior of Light) Aegon Taragyen.
Baby Zala “The Last Targaryen” “The unburnt” survives the Wildfire blast. Longclaw survives the blast and is now glowing from the wildfire and given to Zala.
Jamie and Cersei Waters are definitely the blood of the dragon aka: Mad King’s bastards.
S4 E10 The Children could be GOT best episode. The scenes are brilliantly choreographed.
You mean while Arya is being fitted for her crown?
Seriously, are you referring to Baby Visenya or Baby Edna?
#NoBabyDramas
This is very much aligned with my idea of the best way to end the story. I do really think there needs to be some meaningful change on the horizon at the end to make this whole journey (and all those heartbreaking losses we’ve had) seem worth it.
I also feel that this story (both show and the books) is more traditional than some realize (and that’s not meant as criticism at all). There isn’t going to be some out-of-left-field huge Twisty McTwisterson at the end of all this, or that everyone dies and the NK sits on the throne, or even that Cersei sits on the throne at the end. Ultimately the good guys will win and things will get better in Westeros, but at great cost. GRRM has brought in many interesting influences and put in enough twists and turns for the story to be very unique and fresh, but at its core, it’s still a pretty traditional story. And a damn good one at that.
Apollo,
Yeah, but there have been no spoilers this year to mull over so we are left with this.
“You might be surprised by the obvious, though.”
And so the microparsing begins.
Very nice trolling, Jorah the Andal. Give us a self-contradictory, ambiguous suggestion and let us ponder what you’re talking about.
Okay, this interview with Emilia, Jacob and Natalie make me thing more than ever that Dany will die or have a sad end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxh4hnFKaHs
The way she laugh when the reporter ask about if they like their final scenes…
firstone,
The tinfoil is strong in you, Padawan! I like it!
I especially liked the symmetry of your suggestion that
A Tyrion/Sansa as regent endgame is SHIT. Please don’t let this amazing story end on such an unbelievable scenario. Tyrion is a rumored and confirmed killer of his own family that the majority of the people of Westeros despise and distrust. Why would anyone follow him? Plus all his plans/ideas in season 7 were SHIT. Why is he even still the Hand? He’s earned a demotion.
Not even gonna get too much into Sansa for fear of a flame war. But what leadership skills has she developed or shown that anyone would want to follow her? Key word there is developed. Not some magical gift given to Sansa by D&D without showing us the groundwork of her growth and development. Just all of a sudden she knows things…
Please… Anything above Wardeness of the North (even that’s a stretch) would be unbelievable. I’d rather see everybody die (but Arya) and the whitewalkers rule Westeros rather than see a Tyrion & Sansa as regents endgame. In fact Arya becoming a modern day Nymeria and leading survivors to a new home that’s West of Westeros and the Night King on the Iron Throne would be a much better ending.
Reis,
She definitely didn’t seem too enthusiastic about her ending. Emilia is professional but The role of Dany has a s always will define her career. So you know she’s deeply invested. She’s professional enough not to flat out spoil things. But I can definitely tell that Emilia felt like Dany was the big hero and end game. Anything short of that is probably a major disappointment and it’s “subtly” showing in her interviews.
Reis,
Seems like she’s trying not to give anything away. Liam, Isaac, and Conleth have a similar reaction to that question.
The obvious means different things to different people. To me, obvious is Jon and Dany bite it and their kid of ice and fire sits on the Iron Throne. I am not crazy about this ending but it seems kind of obvious to me.
It’s amusing in this video (complete with a click-bait title of course) that George initially teases us about whether the ending of the show might be a bit different than the books, but then admits moments later that the ending of the show is stuff he planned 20 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54epNT20W44
Aegon the Icedragon,
To be fair, the question was “Are you happing with how things ended?” Emilia could be reacting to her own ending, or the ending in general, or the ending to someone close to her (Jon? Missandei? Jorah?).
Jay Targ,
I have never said “Shut the f*ck up” so many times to so many people who can’t hear me in my life. LOL. Didn’t catch a word Isaac said, but got the gist of Liam’s usual good natured insight. 🙂
Ten Bears,
Seriously?
Aren’t you tired of trolling me …. yet?
Tell me everything you know… I’ll agree with it and you won’t have read any of my post anymore.
firstone,
Ackkk! My long, complimentary reply to you has been stuck in Moderation Purgatory for hours. No idea why.
Pigeon,
Haha yeah, the lack of a proper microphone makes the video almost unwatchable. All I could do was try and read their body language.
firstone,
I’m really sorry (sincerely). I certainly didn’t intend to “troll” you. I honestly wasn’t sure who you were referring to as the Princess who was Promised who will be proclaimed Queen of the 7K: eg, Dany; the offspring of Dany & Jon; or someone else. And I apologize for the stupid baby names (“Edna” named after Eddard Stark, or Visenya named after Aegon Targaryen’s sister, name-dropped by Arya in S2), in case you meant a daughter of Dany & Jon.
Arya becoming Queen is my silly wishful thinking; not a critique of anything you wrote. (Technically, she has been a Princess twice: when Robb was KitN, and when Jon is or was KitN.)
After my silly Arya comment, I “seriously” did want to know to whom you were referring. I’ll try to be more vigilant in the future so that something I ask out of genuine curiosity doesn’t come off like I’m bashing someone.
PS. I see my other, long reply to your other post (9/20/18 at 7:04 pm) has been awaiting moderation since 9:25 pm. I spoiler covered my reply since you spoiler covered yours. Maybe that’s why?
I present to the Watchers this 1st trailer of the series:
Listen closely to what Jamie says at the very end. Foreshadow! He and Cercei will be the only ones left standing. Okay so where’s the sweet part you ask? Westeros is a wasteland and all those that died become White walkers and are living in the land of winter where there are no tears, sadness, anger or pain it’s a utopia with ice palaces and ice dragons and snow cones and pet unicorns…
I must admit I’ve confused by Iain’s line here about being confused by the obvious. Almost everyone I speak to expects Jon to rule in the end, a reasonable proportion expect Dany to either die or marry Jon. Is he suggesting that’s too obvious or Dany ruling too obvious because I’m not sure anyone is expecting Dany to rule out right are they?
Also on a side note the trailer for Captain Marvel released this week, with the premiere in March. I know that is a movie and GOT a TV show but can we hope for a first trailer and air date confirmation next month if the show is to return in April as widely expected? I’m guessing we’re more likely to see the trailer in November but hoping we could get it sooner.
Might’ve been being intentionally vague and confusing again. ;] “Surprised by the obvious” makes me think of something so obvious as to have been dismissed as impossible, happening. Or like, things that we almost know for sure are going to happen, will do so in unforeseen ways…
Or, y’know, he was just trolling and letting people continue to go nuts, attempting to work out their predictions. ;p
Daenerys ruling with Tyrion as Hand, and Jon and the others helping out in various capacities (assuming he’d have little problem handing the throne down to someone who actually wants it)…that’d be an ideal conclusion for me. Be nice if she implied elections for her future plan rather than keeping the inherited-power thing. I do like Firannion’s utopian vision.
…Of course it won’t happen. (Right?) There’s a strong probability that at least one of them will somehow perish–permanently. It’s virtually inevitable that many characters beloved to me will die. Agree that a “boat$ex-baby” being the PWWP/future ruler sounds a bit too corny.
Oddly I have never thought Jon or Dany would end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms, not because they died particularly but that at least Jon wouldn’t want to. He is not politically driven, he doesn’t like the machination of ruling just like Ned I have never saw him as being King because its just not his thing. I think Dany might change her mind once she has broken the wheel and also turn her back on being ruler but I am not sure what her reason would be, maybe her child.
In my head obvious would mean Tyrion becoming ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, he is the most suited to the position and that in my mind makes him the most obvious.
I also have this mad thought that the Night King and the others have to be part of the world to keep the balance. They need a leader and every so often that leader changes, they are either killed and replaced or someone sacrifices themselves to become the new Night King. I could see Jon doing this, yes I know you will all say rubbish and you are right, yet if no one had rubbishy mad ideas books wouldn’t get written in the first place.
I am sure there will be loads of fake leaks out there but nothing could be confirmed until the trailer drops and that’s likely minimum 1-2 months away.
It’s normal to try to read expressions and attempt to discern feelings from someone’s comments. However, I think some aren’t very good at it, let their own ideas on the topic force their interpretations a certain way and/or take it too far and insist what the person said means [this].
The first thing that should be taken into consideration with cast interviews, especially live, public ones, is that with each question regarding the final season their first thought is, “how do I answer this without giving anything away?” The actor is guarded and so is the answer so there is that element behind the expression and often times what is said won’t even make sense when the material is actually seen. They may even have planned responses to expected questions but when asked something different but similar in front of the camera they try to rework the response to fit.
Jon Snowed,
There has been no actual leaks this year. I know people think the Spanish You Tube guy has something but his second video has made me convinced that he doesn’t based on the obvious errors and inconsistencies in it. All the fake stuff out there tends to be amateurish and awful but I cannot dismiss it outright because Season 7’s leaks were bad fanfiction and those turned out to be true right down to the cringeworthy “Dany” scene. I’d love some actual confirmed WOTW stuff, which we’ve gotten so little of this year. For instance, last season, didn’t they confirm that Arya and Bran would both make it back to Winterfell and that there was a big sea battle? I’d love a small spoiler like that for Season 8 – for instance how the Northern lords react to Daenerys/ Jon kneeling. (I suspect not very well.) A small nugget we can speculate about.
got_tv_fan,
I don’t think we ever knew-knew Arya was going to make it to Winterfell other than supposed ‘outside leaks.’ That quick shot in the promo vid of her on her horse in snowy terrain looking in the distance was an easy guess that she was riding toward it though (and that’s exactly what the shot turned out to be).
We did have a very early tip about a big sea battle with additional info that one of Yara or Theon is captured by Euron.
There was a lot of stuff we could glean from paparazzi shots from S7 filming though. Pretty much all of the Dragonstone exterior stuff was captured in one way or another, some of which was even officially released. This filming season we have so, so little.
* twice now I accidentally commented with a ” behind my name, which apparently gets it stuck in moderation. 😛
Tyrion is one of the central characters of the story and clearly was instrumental in bringing Jon and Dany together. I have no doubt GRRM sent Tyrion to theWall in S1 for this very purpose. Not sure I get your point here to be honest.
Jon Snowed,
Tyrion hasn’t had a real storyline since Season 4 and has been reduced to funny dwarf sidekick. Yes, I know that Peter Dinklage won the Emmy this year, but he has been underutilized as an actor since Season 4. (Season 4 was a brilliant piece of acting – The Laws of Gods and Men and The Children especially.) The only theory I have as to why he is still around is to act as regent for Targaryen spawn.
He needs to finish his jackass and honeycomb joke too
Mr Derp,
True. Wanna bet that the show ends with him finishing the joke?
Seeing all of Emilia’s interviews, it sure seems like she is not pleased with Dany’s Season 8 arc.
“surprised by the obvious” could mean the ending feels obvious after we see it but how we get there is surprising or that we have missed or misinterpreted several clues to the ending and we will be surprised when it is all revealed. (I picture a Bran vision that cuts together bits of all 7 seasons that reveal something “obvious”, when seen in that way, that we didn’t piece together).
OK, so English isn’t my first language, so I interpret this as Iain Glen saying the obvious (whatever that is) is surprising… Or him stirring the pot quite nicely – hey, he’s got all us fans feverisly speculating, ha ha!
Oh, and loooove Emilia’s tattoo! Mother of dragons, forever. (Did anybody else see NCW’s prank on Instagram, that he’d also got a tattoo, with a picture of an amazing skin art picture of Tyrion Lannister? ha ha!)
Over the past few days, I’ve done a complete rewatch of all seven seasons to date. One season ends, I jam in the first disc of the next season… And after 707, I’m left floundering. Where’s the next episode?!!?
Let’s get the negatives out of the way first.
706 Beyond the Wall is the shittiest episode of GoT to date. All logic and timeline continuity thrown out the window like Bran for the sake of a fucking wight polar bear (that looked so fake it was comical – I can only agree with Rory McCann: “That’s no fucking bear, that’s Toby”) that D&D apparently insisted on because they’ve wanted one since season one or two. And all the rest of it, Gendry’s run, supersonic ravens and dragons… Sigh. If they’d only shown some passage of time. The idea wasn’t too bad, imho, but the execution was subpar for GoT. (As a sidenote, in the books, a wight might be brought to KL to whatever monarch reigns there for the same purpose – but they won’t need to go beyond the Wall because Jon put a couple of wights in the Wall freezer before he was murdered.)
Season 7, overall, went at such a breakneck speed! All speed, all the time. Kinda rushed… The earlier seasons went forward fast at times, but also lingered more at important character moments. Don’t get me wrong, S7 also had several “high thread-count” scenes (Jaime and Lady Olenna comes to mind) but they were sandwiched between “all action, all the time”.
I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the much-maligned by fandom Season 5. When it first aired, I was a bit iffy about some aspects, and much of the fandom mercilessly slated it, but now, with some perspective, I found I enjoyed S5 immensly. Dorne wasn’t that bad – nowhere as bad as the social media reaction at the time, which, unfortunately became a meme. Overall, it was a solid season, with much great storylines and great acting.
I don’t like ranking seasons because all of them have something special about them. For me, S3 will always be the one I love the most because that’s how I got into GoT (without seeing S1 or S2 first – it was a bit confusing at start, ha ha). Maybe I can say S7 wasn’t as good as some previous seasons.
I know my favourite scenes of the entire 7 season run so far. Scenes that haunt me, in a good way.
1) Jaime and Brienne bathtub scene. (S3)
2) Sandor and Arya, he without armour, she treats his wound. (S4)
What these scenes have in common is “hard” men letting down their guard, showing their vulnerability to one person. Worthy of such a disclosure. Brienne and Arya.
After a complete rewatch of the whole series so far, I can only say, it’s bloody brilliant. Even if the latest season hasn’t been up to par with the previous ones. I’m sure the last season will remedy that dip in quality of writing. The last season, S8; will be bigger than ever, larger than ever, more sweeping than ever, erm… other words meaning big?
I hope they do small things, too. Small things make it human, relatable. Big, epic things are beyond most of us. I mean, I’ve got no dragons to make everybody agree with me. Maybe that’s a good thing, ha ha.
Sorry for stupidly long post.
OK, now I can picture the end of the very last episode. All is said and done, the Great War, the War for Dawn, has been fought and won, at immense cost, and it is time for rebuilding. A scene with survivors, in warm spring light. They discuss important matters, yadda yadda, camera pulls away, sound fades just as Tyrion says: “I once went into a brothel with a jackass and a honeycomb…”
talvikorppi,
personally, I didn’t hate season 5. I thought the first half of the season was kind of a bore, but I didn’t hate it. It’s probably my least favorite season, but it also has perhaps my favorite episode, “Hardhome”.
talvikorppi,
Lol, as long as they don’t do some kind of fade to black with “Don’t Stop Believin'” in the background when Tyrion is about to tell the punchline 🙂
…Or tease that the punchline will be told in the prequel.
Mr Derp,
It is going to end with a return to Winterfell and Ned in the shower….
… WITH TONS AND TONS OF ASNAWP ASS KICKING!! 😉
It might seem silly but that does sound like a better than zero possibility… assuming the very, very end is on a bright and sunny note.
Clob,
Yes, no “fade to black”, it has to fade to warm yellow to white. Spring, summer, that kind of thing.
Also, as the person who actually created the monst… the ASNAWP acronym, might I have a word..? 😀
The less ASNAWPing, the better. I like Arya and I want her to be human, ordinary (well, OK, a bit extraordinary), not some clicheed “superhero”.
I’m not a big fan of all badass all the time. I prefer surprising moments of badassery from ordinary people/characters. Who can forget Samwell Tarly’s “Open the FUCKING gate!” That was grade A badassery. Pyp was so flabbergasted at Sam swearing that he opened the gate without further question.
Clob,
… WITH TONS AND TONS OF ASNAWP ASS KICKING!! 😉”
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Rather simple formula for success, isn’t it?
PS Hi talvikorppi! Aren’t you glad you unleashed the ASNAWP monster? 🙂
talvikorppi,
Arya has human moments all the time. In fact, she had one of the most human moments in season 7. She just sat around a campfire with new friends and exchanged stories. And why single out Arya? Jon, The Hound, Jorah, Brienne, Jaime, etc. all have continuous moments of badassery. Why not ask for those characters to slow down?
talvikorppi,
Darn. Just wrote you a long explanatory, earnest reply that vanished into the ether when I pressed “Post Comment.” In a nutshell. I was agreeing that I don’t want to see a S8 Arya flying around like a Marvel superhero throwing bad guys through brick walls. It was her other qualities – including empathy and loyalty – that make her special.
I guess it’s wise to type comments separately as a “note” and then cut and paste them into the Comment box…
To be honest, if I must, I don’t want Arya’s final season to be all ASNAWP either. Of course I do want her to kick some ass and say, “No One cares,” to taking names. She’s essentially been training for the entire series for physical action, as well as other things (with still more in the books), so I’ve just been waiting for her to actually put it to good use. Still, most of my favorite moments of her are not while being a badass. A lot of the credit for that does have to go to Maisie and how friggin’ great she is. 🙂
Clob,
I like damn near all of Arya/Maisie’s scenes. She’s just a wonderful actress. I just took a peek back into season 5 and it did have some cool scenes. Of course, Hardhome & Slynt getting his due are some of my faves. Also just ran across the scene where Arya is in Bravos before gaining entrance into the HoB&W & the three thugs threaten to rob her. And she hits them with the line, “Nothing is worth anything to dead men.” Fearless and on point delivery by Maisie. She deserves an Emmy. They better give her great material this final season because she’ll knock it out the park & bring that trophy home. She’s such a revelation.
https://youtu.be/Okxr2ir3LVk
Here’s an interview with actor playing Night King, in which at 1:13 he says that the character he plays is not strictly at the evil side. What do You think about it?
1) I like many of Firannion’s ideas. Meaningful social change, with better days ahead for the smallfolk. A transitional form of government, moving away from feudalism. A proto-parliament with the seven kingdoms becoming more of a loose federation of allies with greater local autonomy. Peace, at last, prosperity on the way, plenty of government and business support for the arts and artisans and explorers and scholars, laying the groundwork for a Renaissance. The Iron Throne melted into a nonrepresentational sculptural blob. And of course, at least a few of our favourite characters still alive and reasonably happy.
2) Among the characters, I am rooting for the humans as a group. These are the persons that like us; have to negotiate the universe with ONLY their human heads, hands, hearts and other body parts that they can call into service (looking at you Cersei).
The TV show has both human and magic characters. I would like to see Westeros left to humans and the magic characters go on to their just rewards – good or bad. Clearly, there are bad and less bad/good among both humans and magical creatures and their individual fates may depend upon luck/chance/character. LOTR ended like this with bad magic defeated and the good magic folk put on a boat to a different place. I wonder what GRRM will do.
3) This human set includes Jaime, Sansa, Tyrion, Yara, Brienne, Euron, Cersei, Jorah, Sam, Grey Worm, Gilly, Little incest baby Sam, Theon etc. I am rooting for as many of these as possible to survive to carry on rebuilding a devastated Westeros. Cersei has become increasingly dehumanized by grief and lust for power, so her demise would not bother me. Euron may have a future as the next Jack Sparrow.
4) The magical group includes: Beric (undead); Jon (undead); Daenerys (either unburnt OR burnt and undead; plus mother of weapons of mass destruction); NK (completely dehumanized); Bran (???? ); Arya (face-shifting); Mel (smoke baby, raising the dead); all magic animals (3 dragons, ugh!). I hope they all exit in some suitable manner, including final death or moving beyond the wall out of the realm of regular people. To be generous, I suppose some that are not undead, like Arya, could simply have their powers taken away. Could these magical characters really live on as regular neighbours in a new, more just Westeros?
I think it’s entirely possible for Dany to die after giving birth (so she wouldn’t be able to rule). I think it’s consistent with the Targaryen medical history. Dany’s mom died in childbirth. Lyanna died after Jon’s birth. It’s possible Tyrion could actually be a Targaryen and his mom died in childbirth. So I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s Dany’s fate as well. Arya and Gendry would be my guess, but they would be a couple who traveled all the time, so they wouldn’t get to sit in the Iron chair much.
Even last season wasn’t that much badassery from her once the feast was done. I tend to agree, but at least each one of those executions has varied. I’m not sure whether she’ll get to kill the queen, but if she doesn’t for a good reason I won’t mind. I think she’s going to prove very adept in combat, which would please me very much. BTW, one of her most exquisite badass moments was tossing the Assassin’s name into the pot and saying a Man can go kill himself for all I care. To him!!!!!
I see Sansa is the only character in the series who isn’t allowed to learn from experience and must always be that same character. Despite the fact she’s seen leading from several figures, from Tywin and Olenna to Cersei and Joffery.
Let’s not forget who initiated the Northern liberation from the Boltons. Or the fact Jon trusted Sansa enough to rule the North competently (which she has done). Shit, even all the way back in S2 when Sansa was at the height of abuse from Joffery and was nowhere near the woman she is now, she was the bravest girl in KL when it was under siege and tried to comfort a bunch of frightened women because Cersei wouldn’t, that’s the earliest sign of leadership right there.
If Arya was to suddenly rule the 7K as regent despite zero political training or awareness, no one would say anything. Just like how no one said anything when Dany became a leader at the end of S1, or when Robb is winning massive battles as a teenager with no experience, But somehow with Sansa it’s a problem.
As for people wanting to follow her, the Northern lords clearly warmed up to her and the Vale is following her with no problems whatsoever. Not to mention characters like Brienne, Jon, Arya, Blackfish and Tyrion admiring her. She may not have 30 years of experience, but it’s clear GRRM and D&D intend for her to be a strong ruler and an intelligent woman. If we can accept people like Sam being strong, why not Sansa?
I have always wondered what the Night King was looking for? Conquer Westerns, sit on the Iron Throne, Jon Snow or a Night Queen? There was a time I thought Cersi might become a Night Queen (if the Night King ever enters Kings Landing) after all she had lost all her children and her heart had become cold and void. Reminiscing about Dany and Jon Snow, I have always felt the title of the book on which the series is premised ” A song of fire and ice” felt like a literary eulogy portraying the life, deeds and sacrifice of our two favourite royal lovebirds. Don’t forget both had died before and arisen_ Dany when she walked into the the funeral pyre of drogo thereby hatching the 3 dragon eggs, Jon Snow when he was betrayed and stabbed severely by a group of disgruntled Night Watch. Their union is what I think brings about the prophesy of Ahzor ??? ( fire and ice) which Melisandre fufills. I really wish Dany and Jon come out unscatched from the war of the long night but honestly I don’t see this happening. And in case you’re wondering – I have never read the book.
Nobody was or is forcing the idea of those characters as leaders on people though. We didn’t have D&D, Sophie and Sansa roadies talking about how great & powerful they are before seeing it naturally happen. It is essentially the Any man that must say “I am the king” is no true king idea, except it was said before being king. Being told something is doesn’t always mean it doesn’t need to be seen becoming something. Show!Sansa has become closer to “plug-n-play” if you go by what they say compared to what they’ve shown.
As a non-hater nor un-lover of the Sansa character I really don’t care if she’s a leader or not. However, I would say that for both mediums I don’t believe she’s learned YET as much as some claim she has. Sure, she was around kings, queens and other leaders but she wasn’t being taught HOW to get things done, she just witnessed things happening as a result of actions she didn’t participate in or know anything about. So, I’m fine with the idea of her becoming a leader and learning on the job with it clear that she doesn’t really know everything and makes mistakes, like the rest. I am not going to buy that at this point she’s a know-all, be-all, ready to rule the world person though.
—————
There is definitely something running on this site that causes me issues. I’m used to a lot of script errors using it on my work computer, but now my phone and even my better home computer freeze up continuously while writing comments. 🙁
Ten Bears,
I agree with your take on Arya. And I also agree with your comment posting method. Darn! I had to retype my main comment two more times before I could finally post it.
Bob the Builder,
Lately I’m of the very unpopular opinion that Cercei will make it to the end and Jamie is the PTWP. I believe they might be Targaryens too. Also Jon and Dany won’t decide to stay in Westeros. They have a destiny elsewhere perhaps.
Theons Richard,
Thinking on that, one of the “obvious” things to happen, if we are looking at it objectively, is that the NK and his army along with super-fire powered Viserion will annihilate most all of Westeros.
I feel like S6 captured the mistakes part well, she believed the Northern lords would be ready to rise up against the evil as shit Boltons as soon as a Stark came back, there was logic to her belief but she was ultimately wrong.
The show has never presented her as know all, but they do present her as a confident leader though one with trust issues. She’s far from perfect, and I believe Sophie is the biggest Sansa fan ever (though I’ll like to consider myself in the running 🙂 ) and loves any moment Sansa has which is awesome. I don’t believe she is overselling Sansa as some all powerful leader, just someone who’s come really far and has even further to go.
Sorry if I come across as aggressive, I just feel like much of the fanbase holds Sansa to way more of a standard than any other character, any progress she makes is shrugged off as artificial despite over half the show for Sansa being one of learning and listening. Some people will never accept her as having earned her pay-off and that’s unfair. She’s earnt it just as much as her siblings.
A thing that we who are deeply immersed in GoT/ASoIaF fandom tend to forget, I think, is the fact that we are not the rank and file of people who watch the show. There’s a good chance that when a cast member speaks of an outcome being ‘obvious,’ he or she means to the casual viewer. Iain Glen is probably not trying to outthink those of us who spend lots of time what-iffing and tying ourselves into tinfoil-wrapped logical knots of analysis paralysis, just to have something to do while we await the next leak, teaser or other tidbit.
BeardedOnion,
Clob (and I) may have said something like this a while back: S7e7 was a breakthrough for Sansa and Sophie. Sansa the character was confident, assertive and charismatic. (“Do you deny it!”) Her last scene on the battlements with Arya remains one of my favorites. (S: “… You’re the strongest person I know.” A: “I believe that’s the nicest thing you’ve ever said to me.” S: “Well, don’t get used to it. You’re still very strange and annoying.”)
I just wish there had been a progression to that high point. Instead, after her late S4 “Shall we go?” Cat 2.0 on the staircase moment, she regressed into crash test dummy mode by agreeing to LF’s ridiculous Bolton marriage plan in S5; then went off on Sansa vs Jon and Sansa vs. Arya whingeathons for much of S6 and S7.
I still attribute much of Sansa’s weird behavior and inexplicable actions to show vs. book deviations, which unfairly left Sophie twisting in the wind when asked to explain her character’s motivations.
I have always wondered what the Night King was looking for? Conquer Westerns, sit on the Iron Throne, Jon Snow or a Night Queen?
In “The Door,” The Three-Eyed Raven (“3ER”) and Bran share a vision of ancient Westeros, in which they witness some Children of the Forest, led by Leaf, create the Night’s King by impaling one of the First Men with a dagger made of dragonglass. In the very next scene, back in the present at the 3ER’s cave beyond the Wall, Bran accuses Leaf (and, by extension, all of the Children) of creating the White Walkers, which she does not deny. Rather, she explains how the First Men were driving the Children into extinction. So, the Children created the White Walkers and the Night’s King as weapons to remove the First Men from Westeros. That is the only goal of the Night’s King, White Walkers, and Army of the Dead: to eliminate all humans from Westeros, either by killing them or making them flee.
Firannion,
“those of us who spend lots of time what-iffing and tying ourselves into tinfoil-wrapped logical knots of analysis paralysis”
……..
😄 I like that! I may steal it, but I’ll be sure to credit Firannion.
Would that I could claim the coinage of the wonderfully useful phrase ‘analysis paralysis.’ I picked it up from my finish carpentry instructor at owner/builder school back in the 1980s.
Firannion,
But the rest of it – the best part – was all yours: “what-iffing and tying ourselves into tinfoil-wrapped logical knots…”
Nah I don’t see that, I’d guess Cersei and probably Jamie will be dead by episode 5. It would be a major shock if Cersei, Euron, the Mountain make it out of this alive and we are bound to lose some of the ‘good guys’ too along the way.
That is my interpretation of what Iain said as well, I could be way wrong on this but I’d assume that what he meant to say was, Dany is the obvious ruler BUT Dany as the ruler of the seven kingdoms might bring some shocking twists.
While she is the obvious candidate (Jon is another obvious candidate) but it’s how she gets there which might be surprising, Natalie Dormer a few months back dropped suggestive pieces of info on who ends up ruling, claiming she knows who it is.
“Oh, I know who ends up on the Iron Throne,” Dormer says, “But I don’t know how it happens.” “I do know that they’ve been shooting a lot of battle sequences, so there’s been a lot of action,” she continues, adding “But of course, they’re going to, it’s the big old fight, right? It’s the fight to the finish.”
I expect nothing less but a spectacular fight to the finish. Jon, Cersei, Arya, Jaime, Dany, Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, something’s (someone’s) got to give, it can’t be a happy ever after end for these characters. The stakes from the start were set up way too high and they must deliver.
I wholeheartedly agree with that! Many of your points here correct, but there are caveats. The admiration was mixed—Brienne was unhappy about some decisions, Arya came around only after Sansa finally pulled the plug on Littlefinger, which IMO she never would have done without the influence of her younger siblings. He’s the reason the Vale army followed her. Jon was mixed after the undermining and arguments. Blackfish liked her letter. What if he had seen the letter to Robb? But Tyrion, who all do respect, did think highly of her and that is quite an endorsement. She has learned and we all cheer. But she admitted it was slowly.
Also Littlefinger initiated the takeover but she ran with it. Jon would have trusted any Stark to run Winterfell but she wanted it and he did decide to trust her.
I think she is finally accomplishing things, but not without some serious questions overhanging them.
Reading Iain Glen’s words, the meaning I got was that the obvious would happen (Daenerys), but there would be something of a curveball. That is: she may end up being in charge of Westeros, but the hereditary monarchy will be abolished. Perhaps President Daenerys Targaryen?
My interpretation is totally opposite of:
Having a few days to think about this article, my updated interpretation is that we’re all over-interpreting.
Overthinking even more on the meaning of ‘obvious’: What if Glen is talking about his character’s ending, and not that of the principals? From the get-go, we’ve pretty much been set up to expect that Jorah will somehow sacrifice himself nobly to save Dany. But what if he outlives her? What if the Starks give him amnesty for his slaving offense and restore him to the lordship of Bear Island? What if his ultimate challenge is to go on without his Khaleesi and learn to be a good uncle to the fierce Little Bear? That would certainly be unexpected – dare I even say bittersweet?
Jorah surviving would be unexpected in my eyes, I’ve expected him to die off so many times now and he’s managed to get through. He’s one of those supporting characters that isn’t especially good or bad and to my mind doesn’t have a clear end game either. At this point I’d guess he will die fighting the whitewalkers or potentially survive and lead the Nights Watch (although that feels a little too Disney style ending for me).
I totally dig your hypothesis. But centuries later we find the Night King not only killing the children of men but also the it’s makers_ the children of the forest. And now he seemed ready to wipe out all life in the GOT. He converted giants and other animals ( bears, giant spiders, horses, viseyron etc) to fight his war of conquest. Seemed the Night-king tasted power and now has a mind of his own to rule all his wind of change can reach.