Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 5 Open Chat, with Night’s Cast Livestream!

Photo courtesy of Helen Sloan/HBO.

Game of Thrones Season 8, Episode 5

Writers: David Benioff and D.B. Weiss
Director: Miguel Sapochnik
Runtime: 1 hr 18 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Graphic Violence
Video Preview: Season 8 Episode 5 Trailer

Join us now for live discussion, filled with hopes and predictions, in advance of tonight’s episode, with the Night’s Cast, and this week’s guests Quinn of Ideas of Ice & Fire:

For those new to Watchers on the Wall or needing a refresher on the guidelines, here is our spoiler policy for open chat:

Please use spoiler coding when discussing ASOIAF/book or light filming spoilers- anymaterial that has not aired or been discussed on Game of Thrones, and no major spoilers. Instructions on coding/showing/hiding spoilers are found at the top of the Comments section. Please do not post ANY leak spoilers in this Chat post before it airs on HBO- the comment will be deleted. Leak discussion is only permitted in our Quarantine forum.

Spoiler coding is required in the Open Chat post prior to the episode official airing (9PM EDT tonight!). After the episode has aired, you don’t have to cover spoilers from the episode anymore! Thank you for being considerate.

620 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. #ForTheThrone

      Only 2 episodes left. Can’t believe the finale is next week. I don’t know what to expect from this episode, but at the very least, I expect big spectacles and for them to go all out. It’s Sapochnik’s swan swong and I’m guessing it is likely the last battle we will ever see on GoT. I’m hoping for even more then what “The Long Night” gave us.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Although the last 4 season’s are not as good as the first four, they are still better than the rest of television. The last few weeks has been so disappointing reading all the negative comments, and reviews. Now we have only 2 episodes left the enjoy, to anticipate, and to get excited about. I hope everyone put aside their negativity and just enjoy.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Just suck it up 🙂
      This thread is going to be astronomical in size after the show airs! I will check in later… Ah, and no whinging afterwards if things don’t go the way you would have liked them to! This is GoT and anything can happen 😛

        Quote  Reply

    4. Not going to speculate about the approaching episode, have a feeling whatever is produced will feel rushed.

      I immensely enjoyed episode four, however like many feel the episode should have been done as two episodes. The writers brushed over very important character dialogue and a wasted a very valuable opportunity to give insight into the characters before the end of the series. This is the kind stuff that used to be integral to series as recent as season six.

      The shorter episodes in all series have been less than fifty minutes, therefore, twenty minutes of additional material would have sufficed to create two episodes. With minimal CGI how difficult /costly would this have been to do, guessing HBO would have had no issue with an additional episode. The only problem would be where to split the episode into two parts.
      I have suggested additional scenes that would pad out the episodes and hope you agree with my choices.

      Scene between Daenerys and Missandei – For someone who is supposedly Daenerys’s closet adviser, she has been nothing but decorative this season bar giving some sass Sansa way. Especially with the ending of the episode, a heart to heart between the two should have been shown. Perhaps with Daenerys beginning to question if the throne is worthwhile.

      Sansa and Brienne discuss Jamie – Brienne worries that if Jamie goes to Kings Landing then Daenerys will have Jamie killed for murdering her father or that Cersei will have him killed for betraying her. Sansa worries that Jamie’s knowledge of Daenerys army could assist Cersei and believes that his loyalty is still with Cersei. Sansa realising that Brienne feelings towards Jamie go beyond mutual admiration between knights, agrees for Jamie to stay at Winterfell.

      War meeting at Winterfell – Sansa speaks to officers who inform her that the northern army are still weary and wounds have yet to heal and that some may not even make it Kings Landing. Sansa references this (as she did the possibility in the episode), Lord Royce echoes her view and advises Daenerys that she is vulnerable and to await additional troops including the Iron Born (foreshadowing later events). Lord Royce’s intervention also shows his support for Sansa which Varys alluded to when talking to Tyrion.

      Sansa and Arya react to Jon’s true parentage – they wonder how this affects their relationship with Jon, whether his loyalty is conflicted, which Arya flatly refuses to believe. Then Sansa compares Daenerys to Cersei, saying their only goal is the iron Throne and despite Jon’s fealty to Daenerys, his parentage is threat to her ambition of being ruler of the seven kingdoms. Regardless of her feelings for Jon, the Iron throne would come first and that Jon’s life is at risk.
      With the additional scenes perhaps this would be a good place to split the episode as the war meeting came in about thirty five minutes into the original episode.

      Lord Glover comes before Sansa – Sansa questions Lord Glovers betrayal, twice he has broken his oath. Not sure if he is given leniency/death but end result is majority of Glover troops replenish Winterfell, other northern houses and Daenerys army marching south. Used as a mechanism to show a greater period of time had passed since the battle – time period was not clear and seemed to have fought one day, got drunk the next, left for battle the day after.

      Jon says a proper goodbye to Ghost – he’s been with him from the start (even beside him when was dead), so not to give him a proper goodbye was a failure of the writers. How much would it have cost to CGI a minute scene with him!

      Jon, Sansa and Arya say goodbye – no one says it but this could be the last time they meet. Regardless this is a watershed in all their lives and although they found each other again, circumstances meant is was only temporary and that the past events had shaped their characters differently and set them on alternative paths.

      Attack at Dragonstone – Basically they killed Rhegal to even up the final battle.
      Not expecting any naval threat seemed lazy writing considering the two prior attacks by Euron’s fleet and the vulnerability of the dragons – being injured during the Long Night, Viserions death in Season seven and Dragon almost been killed in Season seven episode four. They didn’t even necessarily have to kill Rhegal, he could have been so injured he was unable to fly thus Daenerys was left to rely on just Dragon. Remember Season five after Dragon was injured in the fighting pits of Meereen and disappeared for a while to heal.

      If they were going to kill Rhegal then at least Euron’s fleet should have suffered collateral damage. I agree with other comments that Euron has been almost untouchable. With his luck he shouldn’t be fighting but just sitting back and doing the Westeros lottery!

      Missandei and Cersei – I agree with James Hibberd (EW) on this, there should have been a scene between Missandei and Cersei. Cersei is told some home truths, such as Cersei is a tyrant (make some comparison to Masters of Slavers Bay), Daenerys cares for her people, those who fight for Cersei do so because of fear or are paid mercenaries.
      Then Cersei telling Missandei some home truths in return, that kind leaders didn’t last long in power, Daenerys is no different than Cersei, mentioning the killing of the Masters of Meereen and Randall Tarly – tie in somehow with the rise of authoritarian leaders in the real world.
      This conversation would contrast with Arya and Sansa discussion regarding the similarities between Cersei and Daenerys and the discussion that Tyrion had with Cersei at the end the episode about her not caring about her people.
      When Missandei fate is sealed when refuses to give Cersei her loyalty.

      Daenerys asks for Cersei Surrender – some crew members and unsullied are executed prior to the discussions between Tyrion and Qyburn, it was strange that just Missandei was captured and the executions would have set the tone of the meeting.

        Quote  Reply

    5. I’m really looking forward to this battle. I loved The Long Night (I’m in the minority, I know) for its sheer brutal will to survive against an overwhelming evil. But tonight’s battle isn’t just about living to see the dawn, it’s a lot more complex. It’s character history and strategy and anger and revenge and hope and love.

      The Long Night answered the question, “Will there be a future for mankind?” and tonight’s battle will answer, “What will the future look like”?

      It’s going to be a lot of fun :).

        Quote  Reply

    6. I kind of feel like this battle doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme of things, for the realm anyway. If Cersei wins, even though we’ll never see it because the show ends, war would go on. The North, the Vale, the Riverlands, Dorne, and probably the Reach will never bow to her. The Iron Islands still has a civil war going on. She can only plunder Highgarden once and has no ongoing source of funding. It would be nice for everyone to avoid even more war and have Daenerys win right here and now, but even if she doesn’t, Cersei is finished. It’s just a matter of when.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Is seeing Cersei be burned alive (by wildfire please, please, please) too much to ask for? Can I have this one thing? Please?

        Quote  Reply

    8. I am looking forward to this episode. I was part of the group of folks who was disappointed with episode 4 turned out, and several days later plus 1 rewatch, my opinion hasn’t changed. However I am going to choose to believe in D & D in that they will stick the landing. They are not immune to the pacing problems that have plagued the show in recent seasons and I have to believe that while not much can be done for that at this point, they will at least serve the plot of the ending in a cohesive and logical manner. No hysterical heel turn for Dany, no nonsensical plot jumps and logic abandonment like last week’s killing of Rhaegal. Stick the landing. Please. I hope. I choose to believe.

        Quote  Reply

    9. Looking forward to this one a lot. I think it will not be battle the whole time. I expect a lot of switching between battle and personal stuff.

      I hope this episode will feature multiple days. Not just one day.

      Dyanna,

      I like it. More got like then my prediction “queen of Ashes” / “city of ash”

      Jay Sabludowsky,

      True its better then what other shows give us. But I have to disagree with the first four better then the last 4. For me the season in the top half are. Season 1, 4, 6 and 8. 2 from the frist 2 and 2 from the last 2.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Kevin1989,

      How about ‘The Lion and the Dragon’ for a title? ‘Queen vs. Queen’

      I liked most of the seasons. Season 7 was a bit iffy for me and I’m still trying to evaluate season 8. There has certainly been good points but there have been bits that didn’t make sense.

        Quote  Reply

    11. Despite all the hate this season has been getting, I believe this episode will be it’s masterpiece… But Unfortunately it’s too late, if it’s that good, most people have already decided to hate it before even watching it. Toxic fandom makes me sad…

        Quote  Reply

    12. ThisGirlHasNoName: The Long Night answered the question, “Will there be a future for mankind?” and tonight’s battle will answer, “What will the future look like”?

      Nicely put. Brevity is best. But will there be a resolution to that second question by the end of this episode?

        Quote  Reply

    13. Kevin1989:

      But I have to disagree with the first four better then the last 4. For me the season in the top half are. Season 1, 4, 6 and 8. 2 from the frist 2 and 2 from the last 2.

      I also do not subscribe to the opinion that the first four seasons are clearly better. I’ll have to see how this season turns out to form a definitive opinion, but so far Season 8 has been great. Frankly, I am bit surprised by all the undeserved vitriol. I do think seasons 2, 6, and 7 are a bit on the weaker side (though Season 6 has the best episode ever in “Winds of Winter” so there’s that). When I say “weaker”, what I mean is for GoT standards; I still hugely enjoyed all of them. I recently re-watched Season 5 (again) and I was once more reminded of how good it was, some minor imperfections aside. Similar to S8, it also was on the receiving end of this total over-the-top backlash which is baffling to me.

        Quote  Reply

    14. I’m still afraid to watch. I know I’ve always been the type to say I’m fine with the ending no matter how it ends, so long as it feels earned and makes sense within the story we’ve spent so much time reading/watching. However, killing the two main characters at the end would be hard to handle. I can’t escape the feeling that we are going to lose one of them tonight.

      I keep going back and forth on what could happen, parsing through cast interviews to try and find clues. Three things stood out:

      1. Sophie Turner stating that Sansa would go behind her family’s back(revealing Jon’s identity) and risk tearing her family apart.

      2. Emilia Clarke describing having filmed her final scene and worrying that it is the final taste people would be left with her character.

      3. Maisie Williams saying that all of the major players this season would be female.

      My fear, Jon dies this episode because of something Dany does. Dany is killed in the final episode, with Sansa,Tyrion, and Arya being responsible.

        Quote  Reply

    15. First time post, but better late than never! Looking forward (nervously) to tonight and can’t believe just 2 to go…hopefully people will just enjoy and not be too negative if things don’t go the way they think they “should” end. While some is justified, I think a lot of the criticism this season is because people are trying to convince themselves the show is not as good anymore so won’t feel so bad when it ends…we will all miss it when it is gone, so enjoy…

      I have to think that there is some significance to us not seeing Arya and Sansa’s reaction to Jon’s parentage last week…maybe to hide some plotting in the way they obviously did off-screen last season about LF…

        Quote  Reply

    16. Mr Fixit: I also do not subscribe to the opinion that the first four seasons are clearly better. I’ll have to see how this season turns out to form a definitive opinion, but so far Season 8 has been great. Frankly, I am bit surprised by all the undeserved vitriol. I do think seasons 2, 6, and 7 are a bit on the weaker side (though Season 6 has the best episode ever in “Winds of Winter” so there’s that). When I say “weaker”, what I mean is for GoT standards; I still hugely enjoyed all of them. I recently re-watched Season 5 (again) and I was once more reminded of how good it was, some minor imperfections aside. Similar to S8, it also was on the receiving end of this total over-the-top backlash which is baffling to me.

      It’s only the oral minority , the viewing numbers are all up big, the silent majority seems entertained.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think it is unlikely that Jon will die in this episode, if he dies at all. There would be many who would not watch the final episode if that happened. Same with Dany. (Plus, I’ll be annoyed if Jon dies fighting Dany’s war with Cersei, tbh.)

      I think Jon will find out Sansa blabbed and will be annoyed and that will cause more friction between Jon and Dany. Jon won’t totally turn on Sansa though and will want to her her reasons, whereas Dany will be like ‘I told you so’ (which she did).

      Emilia’s comments do worry me, suggesting Dany does something terrible.

      I think so far, the major players have been women. I doubt Jon, Tyrion and Jamie will stay in the background completely. They HAVE to do something, otherwise their characters have become pointless.

        Quote  Reply

    18. I’ve decided to pretend episode 4 does not exist and in my head I’ve imagined something far better. Now I’m super excited again. But only because this is George’s ending to be honest. I have completely lost my faith in D&D.

        Quote  Reply

    19. Been out to dinner and now home drinking all the wine in preparation for 2am. I fear I am going to need to be drunk for tonight’s episode. I am worried about how this story ends, but I am most worried about Jon. Stay safe Jon!

        Quote  Reply

    20. Che,

      I’m staying up (with some alcohol) to watch. I then need to get up and be ready for the day! Not sure I’m going to be able to sleep but I wouldn’t sleep if went to bed without watching because I would be wondering what I was missing!

      Good luck to anyone who meets me at anytime on Monday!

        Quote  Reply

    21. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      I’m still afraid to watch. I know I’ve always been the type to say I’m fine with the ending no matter how it ends, so long as it feels earned and makes sense within the story we’ve spent so much time reading/watching. However, killing the two main characters at the end would be hard to handle. I can’t escape the feeling that we are going to lose one of them tonight.

      I keep going back and forth on what could happen, parsing through cast interviews to try and find clues. Three things stood out:

      1. Sophie Turner stating that Sansa would go behind her family’s back(revealing Jon’s identity) and risk tearing her family apart.

      2. Emilia Clarke describing having filmed her final scene and worrying that it is the final taste people would be left with her character.

      3. Maisie Williams saying that all of the major players this season would be female.

      My fear, Jon dies this episode because of something Dany does. Dany is killed in the final episode, with Sansa,Tyrion, and Arya being responsible.

      I don’t see any of the Core 7 dying tonight (AeJon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Jaime, Cersei). They need something big for the finale, unless this battle spills into the next episode. Cersei is a snake and David and Dan love Lena. She’ll make it to the finale and meet her demise next week. Emilia had an Omaze campaign with the winner getting to watch the finale with her next week. That would be an odd campaign if Daenerys dies tonight and isn’t in the finale. I guess AeJon is the most likely out of them all, but there’s more story left with the AeJon reveal/true heir to the throne for AeJon to just fall to a Gold Cloak or Euron in battle. That would be too easy and eliminate all the “drama” around AeJon/Dany/Iron Throne. Sansa isn’t even in KL so she’s safe. Tyrion shouldn’t be fighting in the battle so he’s safe. Arya and Jaime are wild cards, so we’ll see.

      I expect spectacle tonight, but no major deaths.

        Quote  Reply

    22. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think Cersei or Dany dying is more likely than Jon but I agree Jon is on this list as well. I expect this episode to be intense and next week’s more calm and “wrapsy” for lack of a better word.

      Do you think the battle will be completed by the end of tonight’s episode?

        Quote  Reply

    23. Jack Bauer 24,

      I think the only way Cersei survives is if she gives herself up. Which I highly doubt, since she was willing to kill herself and Tommen in season 2. Don’t forget there will be a big battle at KL with a dragon, ANSWP is coming for her and Jamie is the wild card.

      Chuck,

      I expect it to be done. They have never had a battle span 2 episodes and this is episode 80 mins. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Battle started midway or later through the episode and the big climax comes just before we go to black.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I enjoy your posts. Your theories/predictions are always insightful and reasonable. However, I don’t think that Jon dies tonight. More likely next week, if he dies at all. I’m still hoping that he ends up in the true North with Tormund and Ghost.

      I am concerned about Emilia’s statements, too. It seems that Dany is going to do something truly terrible but I have no idea what it is. Killing Jon would certainly fall into that description but I hate the thought of it.

      Jack Bauer 24,

      I think that there will be major deaths tonight. I’m betting on Cersei and Jaime. (But I am always wrong with my predictions.)

        Quote  Reply

    25. King in the North East:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      I can definitely see Grey Worm or Varys snuffing it though.

      I could see one of them kicking it. But with Jorah and Missandei dying, I think Grey Worm is safe. Varys should/will definitely die. Don’t know if it’ll be tonight or the finale.

      Waiting for David and Dan to pull the plug on one of the Core 7. Cersei has been on borrowed time for too long.

      I fear they’ll only kill off Euron or somebody like that tonight.

        Quote  Reply

    26. I have washed last week’s sins away and I am preparing to enjoy this ep for what it is – a big spectacle. No matter what, it’s our penultimate ep of Game of Thrones and it’s been better for longer than worse. Just like House Mormont, Here We Stand.

        Quote  Reply

    27. I expect Euron to die tonight. Think Dany/Drogon will make it a priority to take him out or Yara will return and take care of the job.

      I do think Cleganebowl will happen tonight if it happens at all. I think we will see some sort of surprise twist with Arya but that may happen next week as well.

      We will probably see the Dornish armies make it to KL as well. So I anticipate some wins for Team Dany.

      More intrigued to see what will happen with Tyrion/Varys. Will Varys betrayal of Dany happen tonight? If so, I don’t think he will succeed and rather will be caught by Dany and killed for his betrayal. Tyrion is the X factor here whose storyline I can’t figure out. I don’t see him betraying Dany but think his run as her hand will be over in some regard.

        Quote  Reply

    28. mariamb:
      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I enjoy your posts. Your theories/predictions are always insightful and reasonable. However, I don’t think that Jon dies tonight. More likely next week, if he dies at all. I’m still hoping that he ends up in the true North with Tormund and Ghost.

      I am concerned about Emilia’s statements, too. It seems that Dany is going to do something truly terrible but I have no idea what it is. Killing Jon would certainly fall into that description but I hate the thought of it.

      Jack Bauer 24,

      I think that there will be major deaths tonight. I’m betting on Cersei and Jaime. (But I am always wrong with my predictions.)

      Jaime shouldn’t be able to get anywhere near Cersei though. He left her to fight with the North, so as far as she thinks he’s a traitor. She has Euron/The Mountain/Queensguard/Lannister army, so it would be foolish for her to let him near her.

        Quote  Reply

    29. Dee Stark,

      Hi Dee, no screencaps or outright spoilers posted yet, but there have been tweets popping up with “links” to see the leaked episode. Maybe they’re nothing, but better safe than sorry.

        Quote  Reply

    30. Pangumpy,

      Hey, welcome to posting! I mostly read (or lurk) but comment once and awhile.

      Of all the conversations to have off screen! Bran, Jon, Sansa, and Arya…what did you say? I hope you are right and that it was for a good reason.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Tyrion Pimpslap: My fear, Jon dies this episode because of something Dany does. Dany is killed in the final episode, with Sansa,Tyrion, and Arya being responsible.

      Oh, so you’re shifting your stance? 🙂 Thumbs up. End this.

        Quote  Reply

    32. Jack Bauer 24: Jaime shouldn’t be able to get anywhere near Cersei though. He left her to fight with the North, so as far as she thinks he’s a traitor. She has Euron/The Mountain/Queensguard/Lannister army, so it would be foolish for her to let him near her.

      I did not mean to suggest that Jaime would kill Cersei. Your assumption that he shouldn’t be able to get near her is reasonable. Regardless, I think that both will die tonight but not necessarily together.

        Quote  Reply

    33. King in the North East:

      How could you know episode 4 wasn’t part of GRRM’s ending?

      It’s not exactly likely, given at least a few already established facts in the books. One, Euron has established his desire to steal a dragon, not to kill one. Two, Jaime has already abandoned Cersei’s plea to return to King’s Landing for her trial, in favor of helping Brienne no less. These two characters are just vastly different as of now in the books and it’d be a hell of a bizarre turn for them to become their show characters.

      As for Qyburn inventing physics-defying surface-to-air missiles fired off of wooden boats, I guess it’s not completely impossible, but given nothing yet that has happened has involved magical weaponry that wasn’t literal magic, and book lore has already established that people tried for centuries to bring down dragons with ballistas but their scales are simply too hard and the only way it has ever worked is with a lucky shot to the eyeball, it doesn’t seem likely.

      Maybe Cersei loses all sense and decides to behead her most valuable prisoner rather than holding her in the Red Keep to dissuade the woman with the dragon from indiscriminately burning it to the ground, even though she’s seen what happened to Joffrey for doing the same thing. I guess I wouldn’t put that one past her since it’s Cersei.

      That said, I can certainly see Missandei and Rhaegal dying. Nobody is off the table. It just isn’t going to happen in such ridiculous fashion. There’s no way.

        Quote  Reply

    34. My prediction for tonight’s episode: The episode will end with Daenerys sitting down on the iron throne after she (mostly) burned the city to the ground.

      Then next week’s finale will begin with her crowning. We have to see that crown that Michele Clapton’s been talking about for ages now.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Dee Stark,

      It’s ridiculous that people are rating it before it aired, but I figured this would happen. It seems like some people are really trying hard to have the ratings be really bad for this season, even though it certainly isn’t worse than last season. When episode 3 aired I was really upset by all the negative backlash and the bad ratings on imbd. Now I’ve learned to live with it and realize that it’s just people giving 1 star ratings just because they don’t like the resolution to one story. Just enjoy it for yourself and don’t let ratings affect your mood 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    36. This will be a climactic episode. I have no doubt that major characters will die. But just how major? I’m worried for Jon,Dany, and Arya. If we make it through this episode without any of them dying, I will be relieved.

      Cersei better fucking die tonight. Euron too. Their stories are over. Enough with them. I’m expecting Varys,The Hound, and FrankenGregor to die as well. Jaime is 50/50. Also, Drogon. He’s a goner.

        Quote  Reply

    37. SerKnight:
      My prediction for tonight’s episode: The episode will end with Daenerys sitting down on the iron throne after she (mostly) burned the city to the ground.

      Then next week’s finale will begin with her crowning. We have to see that crown that Michele Clapton’s been talking about for ages now.

      Which crown? I may have missed this. I remember her talking about the crown that Cersei wears being unique and something Michele was excited about. Was there another crown she has been talking about? I love these details!

        Quote  Reply

    38. So I am sat here in the US beers in the fridge, just watched the first three episodes of the season on HBO 2awaiting what will likely be the final bloodbath of the series. Oddly I anticipate the probable death of Euron with a positive anticipation, feel sympathy towards Varys should Dany execute him, don’t want to see Cersei die despite all the bad things she has done, expecting the Mountain. And Hound to finally do battle yet anxious of the backlash should Dany finally break bad as expected. In short this will likely be an emotional rollercoaster.

        Quote  Reply

    39. SerKnight,

      I know, it just makes me sad because no matter how you feel about what you are seeing this season, they have truly worked so hard on this show and the cast and crew were so excited about it.

      Anyway, I think I am more affected by it then they are. Haha

        Quote  Reply

    40. onefromaway,

      Michele has repeatedly said that she designed the dragon’s head chain that Daenerys has been wearing since season 7 because she hasn’t earned a crown yet. Meaning she would get a crown when she takes the iron throne. I don’t remember how she said it exactly, but it sounded like she was saying there will be a crown for Daenerys someday.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Jay Sabludowsky:
      Although the last 4 season’s are not as good as the first four, they are still better than the rest of television. The last few weeks has been so disappointing reading all the negative comments, and reviews. Now we have only 2 episodes left the enjoy, to anticipate, and to get excited about. I hope everyone put aside their negativity and just enjoy.

      That’s only your opinion, the public consensus is that s6 is one of, if not the best. I agree season five is probably the weakest followed by seven and two. Season eight is better than those three maybe the first too in my view.

        Quote  Reply

    42. SerKnight,

      Ok, thank you so much for responding! I appreciate it. I had not read or seen (or remember if I had) that detail about the dragon head chain she wears virtually all the time. An earned dragon crown, that will be something to see, if it goes that way! Thanks again!

        Quote  Reply

    43. SerKnight:
      onefromaway,

      Michele has repeatedly said that she designed the dragon’s head chain that Daenerys has been wearing since season 7 because she hasn’t earned a crown yet. Meaning she would get a crown when she takes the iron throne. I don’t remember how she said it exactly, but it sounded like she was saying there will be a crown for Daenerys someday.

      I don’t think Dany will ever get a crown, she will more likely die, especially if she slaughters thousands of innocents tonight.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Jon Snowed,

      I agree. I don’t think she will ever get the crown. I think Michelle was just pointing out that she hadn’t taken the throne. I wouldn’t read too much into it, though.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Jon Snowed,

      JSchmeh,

      I feel that she will win the throne tonight. Cersei will die and Daenerys will win, but she will have to pay a big price (burning a lot of citizens).
      Then the last episode will revolve around her as a ruler no one wants and then she will likely die. I don’t see her dying tonight. She will get what she wants, namely the Iron Throne, but what she has to do to get it will be her downfall. Really tragic and perfect ending to me.

        Quote  Reply

    46. With less than 40 minutes I face a serious crisis…stout, single malt scotch, or anxiety pills. In the meanwhile my hands jitter as I type. Twenty years I’ve lived with and loved these characters…and some of them are about to be plucked, root and stem. The one thing I’m sure of for tonight…a cliffhanger. It’s sadistic, but it’s such a time-honoured narrative device. Well, see you on the other side. Watch out for the wildfyre.

        Quote  Reply

    47. My not terribly original or interesting predictions are that Jaime will kill Cersei while Sandor and Arya take on UnGregor. I expect Arya to survive but both Cleganes to die. I don’t know how Jaime will kill Cersei. Will he choke her like the Maggy the Frog prophecy says? Or will he stab her, bringing the Kingslayer to full circle, killing the one person he used to care about the same way he did Aerys?

      I still can’t shake the feeling that the Golden Company will turn on Cersei/Euron and Varys will be involved. I think next week is when he’ll make his move to promote Jon over Dany and all three of them will die. I’m less certain about this one though.

      I think the big reason why I’m not feeling the hate towards this season that so many other are is that I never expected either Jon or Dany to be left standing at the end. Jon’s purpose in the story is lead the war against the WW. He did that. Despite the anger some people had at Arya being the one to strike the killing blow. I think maybe in the books it’ll be a combination of Arya as a fighter and Bran as a supernatural force that ends the threat of the long night, but Jon’s role was to be the one who brought everyone together to fight for the living. The subversion of the hidden prince trope will be that he doesn’t live to take the throne.

      I do agree that season 7 and 8 have been too rushed. I think maybe D&D were originally hoping that they’d get the last two books, or at least ADWD to go off of and were stretching things out until then. Maybe if they’d known that wouldn’t happen, they’d condense some of the Dorne and Ramsay shit and let the endgame (not an Avengers reference) play out on a more reasonable pace. However, we already know that the main plot and fates of the main characters are at least broadly, what GRRM has planned. I think a lot of the vitriol is not about the legit pacing criticism, but more rooted in pet theories being destroyed by what will turn out to be book cannon. People spent years, for those who read AGOT when it was first published, decades coming up with fan theories. Many of those hopes and dreams are dashed. And people are mad. Maybe GRRM was smart to not publish the last two books until after the show is done. D&D are getting the hate instead of him. Jons fans and Dany fans had a lot invested in one or both together ending up on top and are mourning the increasingly likely possibility that it ain’t happening.

      I think either there won’t be a unified Seven Kingdoms at all, there will be an independent North and South run by Sansa and Tyrion respectively or there will still be a Seven Kingdoms run by Sansa + Tyrion. So I’m not mad about the prospect of Jon and Dany crashing and burning. I always thought it would happen.

      Now, my main questions are:

      1) What was that new Prince of Dorne reference? Was that throwaway line to wrap things up? Or do we have some vengeful Dornish showing up at the eleventh hour to help team Starkgaryen win?

      2) Who takes Euron out? Given his hard on for controlling Dany and her dragons (now dragon), it would be fitting for him to get Dracarysed. It could be Yara showing up out of nowhere. She certainly has every motivation to take him out. But my secret hope is for Arya to wear the face of a recently Valonqared Cersei. She hasn’t done the faceless girl thing yet this season. I’d like to see her do it again. If Arya can’t scratch Cersei off her list herself, maybe she’ll at least get to use her likeness to take out another enemy.

      3) Is Bran totally out of the story? I’d really like him to do something else besides just tell Jon his parentage.

      4) What is Davos’ role in the last two episodes? He was so great as the angel to Melisandre’s devil on Stannis’ shoulder, but lately he hasn’t done much besides be a loyal friend to Jon who makes some good quips.

      Anyway, this comment went on longer than I anticipated, but to close, I had no idea so many people view season 6 as weak. Why? I think it’s one of the strongest. Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter are two of the best episodes in the whole series and two of the best episodes of TV ever. The Hodor reveal and TOJ reveal were both brilliant and devastating. Arya and Sansa taking back their identity as Starks was compelling and beautiful. Olenna’s death scene and Dany setting sail for Westeros were in different ways two of the most epic scenes of the series. How is season 6 weak? The Dorne stuff was meh. But other than that, it was fantastic.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Jon Snowed: That’s only your opinion, the public consensus is that s6 is one of, if not the best. I agree season five is probably the weakest followed by seven and two. Season eight is better than those three maybe the first too in my view.

      I agree completely. Season 5 is by far and away the weakest season of the show, and if it weren’t for the absolute excellence of its final 4 episodes, it would have at best been a “good” season.

      It also fascinates me when people lob the first 4 seasons together as an amorphous block of quality. Season 2 is second only to Season 5 as the weakest of the show’s run, even though I’ve definitely rewatched it the most over the years. Not bad by any means, but aside from Theon, Tyrion, and Arya’s arcs, it’s very unremarkable, just like A Clash of Kings IMO.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Characters who are, imo, definitely going to die:

      Cersei
      Euron
      The Mountain
      Daenerys

      Characters who will PROBABLY die:
      Jaime
      Grey Worm
      Sandor Clegane

      Characters who may/may not die:

      Jon Snow (dies or turns the throne down)
      Ser Davos Seaworth
      Arya Stark

      Who will sit on Iron Throne by end of next week’s episode?

      King Gendry Baratheon, First of His Name (titles titles), Husband of Queen Sansa Baratheon, and the Hand of the King, Tyrion Lannister.

      Tonight? Euron dies, and if Dany does not die tonight (I’m 50/50 on this), then whatever is going to kill her (a bolt to Drogon) will be fired tonight with the result to come next episode.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Jon Snowed,

      Maybe people are worried about spoilers. Or mixing drinks, opening wine, collecting boxes of tissues, and otherwise bracing themselves to loose characters they love.

      I’m going to go now too and get ready.

      I wish you all good fortune for the penultimate episode to come!

        Quote  Reply

    51. Steel_Wind,

      If there is a king or queen in the end, I would hope it is one of the big 3 characters. Ones that GRRM spent the most time telling their story. Sansa is borderline. While it would fit her storyline, she still lags far behind Jon,Tyrion, and Daenerys in total chapters/screen time. Gendry isn’t even worth discussing. Sorry, but him winding up as king would be dissatisfying for me.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Jon Snowed:
      The penultimate episode of the series and we only have 70 comments, why is it so quiet?

      I was wondering the same.

      Maybe staying off social media to avoid potential spoilers.

      It’s also Mother’s Day today, so people might be with family.

        Quote  Reply

    53. I wish everyone good fortune in the wars to come.

      Predictions
      Dead
      Dany
      Cersei
      Jamie
      Mountain
      Varys
      Euron
      Drogon

      Next episode is a great council, where Aegon’s identity and parentage are revealed to the world. He reluctantly agrees to take throne, in order to rebuild the kingdom.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Jack Bauer 24,

      I expect at least one to die this episode. Not all the major deaths can be in the final episode. And I expect cersei, Jaime or tyrion, jon or dany to die. 3 of the 7.

      Adam,

      I think it’s very plausable that jaime arc ands the same in the books. Him going back to kl for what will go down in 5.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Prediction: Lord Gendry Baratheon will not wed Nymeria, not because HBO is against depicting bestiality, but because the CGI would cost too much.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Tryptych,

      Maybe the final book title “A Dream of Spring” is just that in the finale – the bright, better new world the characters hope and fight for is just a dream, out of reach.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Cruloc,

      No, I just saw the forbidden “l—-ks” word in a comment, and ran away. 3 minutes left and I’m unspoiled. 😀
      Bye for now. See ya on the flip side.

      #PrayForArya

        Quote  Reply

    58. The short version of my missing comment is that I never expected either Jon or Dany to survive and rule, so I’m not as mad at this season as everyone else.

      I just really want to see Jaime as the Valonqar tonight.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Good episode everyone! Here we are 100% team Dany.
      Dracarys!
      Burn them all!
      Burn the Red Keep!
      Burn the Iron Throne!
      Break the wheel!

      Destroy what your ancestors builded!
      From the ashes a new world will emerge!

        Quote  Reply

    60. Catspaw Assassin:
      Prediction: Lord Gendry Baratheon will not wed Nymeria, not because HBO is against depicting bestiality, but because the CGI would cost too much.

      I knew HBO and D&D would ruin GRRM’s opus!!!

      /s

        Quote  Reply

    61. Anyone know if after the final episode next week if there will be a Series Recap with directors and such? Deserves a bit of a long recap instead of the 10 minute recaps they typically do.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Dee Stark,

      Yes I saw it. Just pathetic losers. Hopefully imdb will course correct this, it’s also their image at stake.

      Jon Snowed,

      I think because we discussed what we think will happen already to dead. It was a busy week with discussing everything.

        Quote  Reply

    63. My prediction: everything revolving cersei and dany will resolve tonight. I don’t know which of the 2 will win. Next week Jon is the one that takes out the other.

      If cersei dies by Jaime I think it’s because Jaime finds out that cersei is not pregnant but that Gregor impregnated shame Lady. I think he found out about that.

      I still think the dead of cersei can be the red wedding vibe thing. Yes she is evil. But her dead can contain so much emotion for the characters around it. Jaime, tyrion, Sansa, Arya, dany etc

        Quote  Reply

    64. I see the episode started. I can’t watch it till tomorrow (timezones) so I’m off to bed. Have fun everyone.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Oh for f***’s sake. Not even a LITTLE bit of resistance to this? No “earn their love” etc? Just passive acceptance from everyone? Getting a little ridiculous.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Um…. what?? Jon’s like totally cool with burning Varys alive…. uh…. okay then. I sense this episode is going badly wrong for me already.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Oh gods, I think i know what’s gonna happen. Jamie tells Cersei and instead of fleeing she’s tricking Daenerys’s Army…

        Quote  Reply

    68. The surrender would have ended it before last episode. “The Mad Queen” feels TOTALLY manufactured.

      I’ve never been on the “D&D Ruined It” campeign before this but Dany would never have burned Kings Landing after a surrender. The castle itself? Maybe. But not the innocents. Their mad rush to finish the series in two seasons fucked it up.

      This was my favorite show, man…damn…

        Quote  Reply

    69. There is a difference between foreshadowing something, and properly building up to it.
      Mad Dany has always been foreshadowed, hence all those years of speculation.

      How they got there? Totally unearned.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Onedon,

      Because they only have 2 episodes left to hit Martins vague bullet points.
      Which is all this season is.
      A live action telling of a bullet point list.

        Quote  Reply

    71. So Cersei will be portrayed as a victim? And the Northmen are now a rampaging, bloodthirsty and raping army? And Dany, what have you done? This makes no sense.. no sense at all!! What is going on?? 😱😰

        Quote  Reply

    72. Um……. okay?

      What the [email protected] just happened??? Like I don’t actually get it.

      All the wine was a mistake. I don’t understand what the hell is going on right now.

      Why is Dany burning the entire city?!!! I don’t get it!

        Quote  Reply

    73. The bells seem to have set Dany off – did see her eyes when they started ringing? Did I miss something in earlier seasons about her and bells? Something from her childhood maybe?

        Quote  Reply

    74. Two things…Gold Cloaks were a complete waste. They literally did nothing. Have to think David and Dan had bigger plans for them.

      Also, did Varys actually send any scrolls out or was he caught beforehand?

        Quote  Reply

    75. Jack Bauer 24:
      Two things…Gold Cloaks were a complete waste. They literally did nothing. Have to think David and Dan had bigger plans for them.

      Also, did Varys actually send any scrolls out or was he caught beforehand?

      I think he sent out a few scrolls. Also I think that girl was carrying one of those scrolls…

        Quote  Reply

    76. HelloThere,

      HBO could or should have spend $200 million on 20 episodes for season 7 and 8. End the season right. This is just bad man. Take 2 years off from season 6. What a complete waste.

        Quote  Reply

    77. I know he’s mad because of what Cersei and Euron did and I get that she doesn’t want her to get away with that unpunished… But she could have executed her afterwards! I just don’t get it why she did it!
      Seriously, explain it to us why she did it!

        Quote  Reply

    78. So, Jon, Tyrion or Arya?

      Which of the three kill the Mad Queen? Because Daenerys dies next week.

      Throne? WHAT Iron Throne?

        Quote  Reply

    79. Holy Shit! Oh my…..Haven’t read anything up ahead but. just one questions….what in the hell did Qyburn do to the Mt?

        Quote  Reply

    80. They made show-Dany too nice and now people won’t understand her turn, I’m sure book-readers will have a better resolution.

      Also why can’t Jon be with her? Not properly explained. I guess he saw her craziness?

      And Jamie was the Valonqar?

      Aside from that I enjoyed mant things about the episode, some scenes were fantastic

        Quote  Reply

    81. kathy: The bells seem to have set Dany off – did see her eyes when they started ringing? Did I miss something in earlier seasons about her and bells? Something from her childhood maybe?

      What set her off was she was not going to let them surrender. And so The Mad Queen burned the city as bad as Aerys planned to.

      She is a monster. She dies.

        Quote  Reply

    82. I want to cry, but for all the wrong reasons. Starting with Jaime and rapidly downhill to probably the most expensive waste of money on an episode and 8 years of story-telling thrown out the window.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Bran or Kinvara need to answer some questions…. what did Varys hear in the blue flame?

      Who or what spoke the words to Varys?

      Sandor is dead – Cleganebowl – whoopdedo

        Quote  Reply

    84. Well Ser, how do you do!~

      I’m speechless and want the last five years of my life spent engrossed in this shit, back.
      What a mess! Simply a mess!!!

        Quote  Reply

    85. Apollo:
      So Cersei will be portrayed as a victim? And the Northmen are now a rampaging, bloodthirsty and raping army? And Dany, what have you done? This makes no sense.. no sense at all!! What is going on??

      :'(

        Quote  Reply

    86. Pau,

      They made show-Dany too nice and now people won’t understand her turn, I’m sure book-readers will have a better resolution.

      What has Dany done in the books that makes her look less nice? If anything it is the opposite. I think the show has highlighted her cruel side more than the books even prior to this episode.

        Quote  Reply

    87. I cant even think that exists people that likes that thing. This season is sonething that can be even worse than last seasons. Im speechless on How terrible It is.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Sean C.,

      Let’s hope Martin has an acceptable explanation. . .I mean, if this is what he planned as Dany’s basic fate in the books, well. . .😳

      As for Jaime and Cersei, my mother called it back in Season 1. Moms are always right!

        Quote  Reply

    89. Last night I watched the merciless bombing of North Vietnam just to force a point at the negotiating table. We’ve become desensitized by war whether it be in Syria or Yemen or wherever. Innocent lives are being lost every day. D & D really hit home how senseless the carnage is. The bells were ringing; the war was over. Mad queen indeed! Dany has lost my allegiance fwiw. At least Arya made it out…btw the Clegane Bowl was spectacular!

        Quote  Reply

    90. ash,

      Well the drama and suspense picked up. But I honestly wasn’t invested in the end, and after so many years of build up with these characters. So much of it made no sense at all. They fucked up. They royally fucked it up- I’m heartbroken for so many millions of people 😰

        Quote  Reply

    91. Lol:
      Thank God, the books are the TRUE history.

      You’ve seen how the books end, Martin has asserted several times it’s the same end for books and show.

      Better executed or not, that’s another story.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ragnarok! Yay for the Mad Queen of the ashes!
      It’s definitely not over. Bitter………………sweet?

        Quote  Reply

    93. Pau:
      They made show-Dany too nice and now people won’t understand her turn, I’m sure book-readers will have a better resolution.

      Also why can’t Jon be with her? Not properly explained. I guess he saw her craziness?

      And Jamie was the Valonqar?

      Aside from that I enjoyed mant things about the episode, some scenes were fantastic

      Well, Tyrion sent Jamie to bring Cersei down there, so you can count him as well to the reason Cersei died – even if not intended…

        Quote  Reply

    94. Jon won’t sit the throne, I don’t know why people keep saying he will – it’s not his character. Did you see his face tonight as people around him burned? He knows he’s half Targaryen – I bet not only does he feel guilt for supporting her, I’m sure deep down inside he will always wonder if he will also go mad someday because it’s in his blood. I feel sorry for him, he will pay the price for tonight for the rest of his life. People will hate his family after what Dany did and ‘he’ was part of that army and carries that family name and thanks to his stupid sister people will know now. His family would never be safe, if he had children they would never be safe.

        Quote  Reply

    95. I don’t care what anyone says, that was one of the greatest things I’ve ever witnessed. You can be confused and angry about what Dany did all you want but the fact is the seeds of that were planted for years. It’s tragic yes, but it was incredible. I feel sorry for anyone who couldn’t enjoy that.

        Quote  Reply

    96. ash:
      Direwolf Lvr,

      heh no kidding.

      I am feeling horrified and sick. this was all senseless.Kill off the army and cersie, but destroy it all and kill everyone?

      T

      At this moment, it’s not making sense to me, too. I’m crying for Dany’s downfall and she’s not even my top 3 favorite character (it’s Jon, Arya, and Ghost). Sigh….

        Quote  Reply

    97. Lol:
      Thank God, the books are the TRUE history.

      Do you really think that the books will be different? Of course Dany will go mad in the books.

      I said it in another thread. Here come the people saying that GRRM’s ending will be different. And when the books are the same major points (Dany going mad), then they will say that either GRRM sold out to HBO or that the books weren’t really that good anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    98. All the speculation over eight years…I think few people thought she’d do this.

      It would have been so easy to write an episode where cersei dies and the army is killed off, and everyone pulls back. I really think the writers took the quickest and easiest way out.

      That being said, it will probably win lots of Emmys for CGI and all that.

      Wonder at the guilt Tyrion and Jon must feel, that they didn’t stop her. They needed a queen slayer and no one was available (well Arya but she got there too late)

        Quote  Reply

    99. Dyanna:
      JSchmeh,

      It was certainly epic but for Dany to go on a rampage killing thousands was utterly unnecessary. She’d won. Makes no sense.

      Of course it doesn’t make sense. She went insane. Insanity makes no sense.

        Quote  Reply

    100. The good thing is, we never ever need to rewatch The Game of Thrones. The best show ever just nuked itself. Good by. I even cannot wear any of the clothes I bought which I was proud of.
      It’s a pain to now see a roundup of the show with its intelligent development in the first 5 seasons and ending up like shit.

        Quote  Reply

    101. I know D&D got the ending with Dany going mad and burning Kings Landing from GRRM but they should have realized no matter how you do that it will be hated and came up with a different ending. Honestly don’t see how this would work even with more time to develop in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Isn’t this the prophecy she saw in the House of the Undying? Kings Landing burned out with the ash falling all around the Iron Throne (even thought I thought it could have been snow at the time)?

        Quote  Reply

    103. Sean C.,

      Just finished watch it and think the same thing. So the third twist must be who kills danny.

      They dont know themselves how to get to the end properly. Which really makes season 7 and 8 bad, what was the point of the NK etc ? To make Cersei look good and make Danny the final big bad ?

        Quote  Reply

    104. And to think, all of this could’ve been avoided if Jon had sex with Dany during the scene prior. Dany just needed to get laid.

        Quote  Reply

    105. At this point I’m not really sure why it matters if Varys sent any scrolls. One episode to go and they do or do not… whatever that is.

      Not a whole lot left now eh; AeJon, Daenerys, Arya, Tyrion, Davos, GW around KL. I figured GW would die fighting cuz he doesn’t care anymore. I guess someone has to stay with Daenerys. Hmm

      Sansa, Brienne and Bran at Winterfell. Gendry I guess plus a few others scattered around that we don’t know if we’ll see again.

      As long as ASNAWP lives I can stomach anything. Man, did she get thrown in the shit again. I can understand Maisie being exhausted when filming completed!!

        Quote  Reply

    106. JSchmeh:
      I know it sounds like I am in the minority, but I thought it was great.

      My husband stayed up with me to watch this time and he loved it. All the way through he was saying how good it was.

      Me? I’m actually numb.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Apollo,

      I have to agree with you here. Ironically,we went to see Tolkein today . Slow, but interesting. Beginning shows the Somme, that horror that lasted so many years and killed so many. Was this written to show the horror of war? Um, we got it already

        Quote  Reply

    108. Mr Derp:
      And to think, all of this could’ve been avoided if Jon had sex with Dany during the scene prior.Dany just needed to get laid.

      No kidding, right!! It is all about cocks in the end.

        Quote  Reply

    109. JSchmeh:
      I know it sounds like I am in the minority, but I thought it was great.

      You may be in the minority, but you are not alone. I also thought it was great.

        Quote  Reply

    110. JSchmeh: Do you really think that the books will be different? Of course Dany will go mad in the books.

      I said it in another thread. Here come the people saying that GRRM’s ending will be different. And when the books are the same major points (Dany going mad), then they will say that either GRRM sold out to HBO or that the books weren’t really that good anyway.

      In an interview before S8 aired, GRRM confirmed that the show’s ending will be the same as his books’. It may not arrive at the ending exactly the same way but it will be the same. I thought I won’t want to read the last 2 books after I watch this last season but now I want to see how the mad queen story unfolds and builds up in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Loved it. If you didn’t see most of this coming, you haven’t been paying attention. Save your pearl clutching blather.

        Quote  Reply

    112. JamesL:
      I know D&D got the ending with Dany going mad and burning Kings Landing from GRRM but they should have realized no matter how you do that it will be hated and came up with a different ending.Honestly don’t see how this would work even with more time to develop in the books.

      If they changed the ending, the books purists would’ve ripped them a new one. “That didn’t happen in the book!!!” And a whole bunch of more whinging, crying, etc….

        Quote  Reply

    113. howtathor,

      btw the Clegane Bowl was spectacular!

      thats not the term I would use. What in the hell did Qyburn make? it was almost comical – he pulls a sword out of his body out of this brain

        Quote  Reply

    114. Apollo,

      Omg yes – Daim I’m so confused right now – broken so many things – need to calm down

        Quote  Reply

    115. So I think for fans of Grey Worm? Better get over the next POC dying, cause that Mofo is dead next episode.

      Arya is going to kill him. She will use his face to kill Daenerys.

      Arya may have stood before the Sept of Baelor and have been unable to do nothing. But when she sees the Mad Queen pretend she has won a victory – when all she has won is ashes? That will be it. And that will be that.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Interestingly, unless we get some Force Ghost appearances next week, only three episodes for Lena Headey this season, which means no SAG Ensemble nomination for her.

      Though if it’s any consolation to her, Jerome Flynn is also missing out.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Che: My husband stayed up with me to watch this time and he loved it. All the way through he was saying how good it was.

      Me? I’m actually numb.

      I can understand being numb. Dany went way overboard. When we speculated about her going mad, we talked about her burning the red keep and destroying armies or accidentally killing civilians. I don’t think anybody thought she would go that far and intentionally kill civilians and destroy the city.

      I’m really curious how this ends. She is so much more powerful than Aegon, Tyrion or any of the others at this point. And it’s not like the Unsullied or Dothraki will care that Aegon has the “better claim”. She has the army and dragon, that’s a pretty good claim.

        Quote  Reply

    118. I loved it. All of the chaos and wasted chances and heroes-turned-villains and vice versa and false hope and misdirected belief and human stupidity/greed/intolerance/lust/vengeance and that horrible history repeating itself over and over and over again that GRRM has repeatedly warned us was going to happen. If you think ANY of this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention. Will there be…CAN there be… any redemption? Cannot wait for next week!

        Quote  Reply

    119. Clob:
      At this point I’m not really sure why it matters if Varys sent any scrolls.

      I think he did send them, but after this no one will want a Targaryen on the throne. The scrolls will destroy any chance of him ruling.

      I think Jon ends up with the wildlings after all, but in large part because no one trusts that he won’t also burn the world down. Especially since Brienne can testify that the whole reason Jaime killed Aerys was to stop him from burning King’s Landing.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Ten Bears,

      When she said Sandor – I couldn’t see the screen – it’s like some watery substance clouded my eyes

        Quote  Reply

    121. Steel_Wind,

      I’m actually hoping Sandor got through to her about ‘revenge only ending in your own death’ at some point – that’s how I understand the meaning of his words tonight anyway. The way she looked at the embraced pair of burnt bodies on the ground? Maybe she will finally realize life is worth living after seeing all this horror and death.

        Quote  Reply

    122. LadyMelisandre,

      Well, since there are no books to compare with book purists wouldn’t know unless D&D admitted to changing the ending. The hate this season gets from those fans suggests they don’t believe what is happening this season is based on anything GRRM has told D&D anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Clob,

      “As long as ASNAWP lives I can stomach anything. Man, did she get thrown in the shit again. I can understand Maisie being exhausted when filming completed!!

      ______________
      That’s all I cared about. But she looked shellshocked that the destruction continued even after the battle was effectively over.
      —–
      Arya: “Sandor?”
      (Sandor looks back)
      Arya: “Thank you.”
      😥😓😰😰😰😪🤧🤧

        Quote  Reply

    124. Count me among those who thought this was great.

      Jon letting Vary’s die was because he has always stated that treason is punishable by death.

      I do think Vary’s managed to get a few scrolls out which will come into play next week.

      Dany going Mad Queen hurt but was not unexpected. They have hinted at her cruelty and willingness/approval to sacrificing innocents since season one, however she always had someone who could pull her back or contain her in some degree. Her moral compass died with Ser Jorah and even after learning she was not entitled to the throne she kept obsessed about it always referring to her as her right (even when it was not).

      What surprises me is that so many people have considered this a possibility and now act as if its a big left field surprise. It’s like being surprised that a car that had been making clunky sounds and puffing out smoke for a while finally broke down.

        Quote  Reply

    125. preggers! PREGGERS!! PREGGERS Arya has a baby bump!!! Sandor telling Arya to live…and her saying, “Sandor. Thank you.” She chose life, and it chose her apparently And riding off on a white horse! She was our eyes and ears on Ned’s execution, the Red Wedding, the end of the Night King, and now the Armageddon of Kings Landing. And that poor little burnt girl…devastating. I wager Maisie wins an Emmy.

      That said, it was one of the best episodes of the show. We were stunned. Logistically and in terms of production values, it lived up to the hype. Cersei and Jaime going out as they came into the world–together. Cleganebowl was infinitely better than I expected. I guess the only way to kill a zombie is fire, and the brothers too went out together. Emilia did a great job of showing Dany’s madness, and Grey Worm’s and the cost. Even the Dany-loving spouse said “Somebody needs to kill Dany.” The question is Who? And at what cost?

        Quote  Reply

    126. OK, What the hell just happen? Dany won. Cersei’s army surrendered. The Iron Fleet and the Golden Company destroyed. Then she decides to kill just about everyone in KL. I know that the concept of the “Mad Queen” was discussed, but maybe they should have stretched the transformation at least another week or two.

        Quote  Reply

    127. ash:
      howtathor,

      thats not the term I would use. What in the hell did Qyburn make? it was almost comical – he pulls a sword out of his body out of this brain

      The Mountain wasn’t alive. He WAS ALREADY DEAD. The Viper killed him. The Mountain was not brought back to life by Qyburn – he was brought to undeath. Reanimated.

      That which is already dead cannot die.

      There’s no way to kill something like that other than fire.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Why are people surprised by Dany’s actions? She told Jon she’ll rule by “fear than” when he rejected her. Her allies from Westeros plotted against her. Tyrion, Varys, Sansa. Jon did nothing when she burned Varys. It reminded me of Jamie watching the mad king burning Ned’s father.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m appalled by what she did but it was foreshadowed.

        Quote  Reply

    129. What doesn’t make sense about Dany’s turn? She’s lost everything: two dragons (her children), Missandei, a large part of her army, everyone hates her, her advisors are betraying her, she loves Jon but he can’t return the love anymore, the truth of his birth is out, she has nothing, no one, she’s all alone in a country that doesn’t want her there, a country that sent her into exile and made her flee all her life, and last but not least she’s a Targaryen, and we know the history of Targaryens. Just cause it’s a tragedy and it’s sad to see happen doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. If it doesn’t, then you just refused to see the signs that were in front of you for years. A ton of people saw this coming before the show even moved past the books.

      Not to mention GRRM is loving your horrified reactions right now, red wedding style.

        Quote  Reply

    130. Thank god Arya has been practicing her bow skills for the last episode. It only takes one arrow.

      Disappointed they flipped Cersei to being sympathetic in the end, this did a disservice to Jaime.

      Putting aside my expectations, I loved the episode overall.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Anyone else not getting email notifications of posts?

      Just finished the episode lots to digest both good and bad! Firstly the good:
      – Varys does the right thing for the realm and earns an heroic death.
      – Tyrion trying to save the innocents
      – seeing the death and destruction was horrific, Dany goes full Mad Queen and her armies rape and slaughter, whilst Jon and Arya look on wondering what have they done. Clearly there will be major repucussions next episode.

      Now the bad or my complaints at least:
      – Varys execution just lacked something to me, he tried to do the right thing yet nobody batted an eye lid.
      – Clegane bowl felt a bit weird, stabbed in the head yet still fine?
      – the Golden Company seemed a bit useless.
      – the negative reaction on social media because apparently Dany would never do this and D&D are to blame as GRRM would never write this and there has been no set up. I truly don’t get this part of the fandom.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Flora Linden,

      I don’t think I’ve ever had such aggressive evil revengeful thoughts and I’m sorry for my posts being that way but this episode awoke my inner dragon

        Quote  Reply

    133. I never thought that I’d say this, but, Linda and Elio, I apologize. You were right. You were right all along.

        Quote  Reply

    134. I’m so glad Arya lived, but she lost Sandor, I somehow had hoped he would survive. She left riding a white horse, like a true hero.
      If this is the way Jaime dies (and no, I don’t think GRRM had intended another ending for him), I’m not sure I care for him any longer. I fail to understand why Nikolaj liked his character’s ending. I’m going to give up drinking Lowenbrau beer.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Apollo:
      And seriously. What was even the point of the Golden Company and Harry feckin Strickland?

      Dracarys fodder.

      (Let that be a lesson. THAT is what happens when you don’t bring elephants. 🐘🐘🐘)

        Quote  Reply

    136. Stark Raven’ Rad: The question is Who? And at what cost?

      Arya. At the cost of Grey Worm as she will need his face to get close enough to her. They are both The Walking Dead.

      The question is whether Daenerys will kill Jon or Tyrion before that happens.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Everyone after episode 3: “This is too much like a Disney story! Everyone got off too easy! Nobody important died! It wasn’t horrifying enough!”

      Everyone after episode 5: “Why is this show so dark and violent and mean!? Why did the things that have been clearly projected since the beginning happen!?”

      My only real complaints were, why were the scorpions such a deadly obstacle for the dragons last week, but now Drogon just casually burns em up? And why didn’t Jaime kill Cersei, even if it was a mercy killing? But the first one I can forgive. It’s not battle strategy or battle at all I’m here for. It’s the drama and the conflict.

      Other than that, it more than met my expectations. My favorite thing about this show and the books too is how it highlights our skewed morality. If nameless extras die, who cares as long as the heroes win? That’s how things are in pop culture. How much death and destruction happen in fantasy, sci-fi and superhero stories? Death and destruction that we never are encouraged to care about? GoT/ASOIAF is different. We spend seasons and seasons cheering the fire and blood. Then we finally see the consequences and it’s not quite so majestic and heroic and awesome is it? It’s not like a fairytale or an epic. It was never going to be. Never supposed to be.

      What exactly was it that people were expecting or wanting?

      Like Ramsay told us, “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

      Did people just tell themselves that somehow there would be violence, but it wouldn’t be upsetting and visceral? Or that all the bloodshed and horror of the story so far would lead us to a better future? Really, I don’t get it. What’s the beef?

      Is anyone else with me here? I thought it was a horrific punch to the gut and despite many of my theories being shot to shit, I loved it. I don’t mind being wrong! I can’t be the only who doesn’t get all pissy because things don’t happen in the exact way I thought they would?

        Quote  Reply

    138. Holy shit that was amazing!! So Arya didn’t burn and the Lord of Light was kind enough to leave her a horse!!! That was definitely significant. Also significant, the fact that the Hound and Mountain died by fire. This was amazing!! Guess Dany really did take Missandei’s words to heart. Also, I was expecting a little more from the GC, but oh well!

        Quote  Reply

    139. Sean C.,

      Lol – I don’t know these rules need to be burned cuz Lena Headey was amazing – watching her expressions slowly change during the episode from ‘bitch I got this’ to ‘help me somebody help me I’m alone’ was just beyond description

        Quote  Reply

    140. JamesL:
      LadyMelisandre,

      Well, since there are no books to compare with book purists wouldn’t know unless D&D admitted to changing the ending. The hate this season gets from those fans suggests they don’t believe what is happening this season is based on anything GRRM has told D&D anyway.

      Well, I am a book-reader (non purist, thank the gods) and I’m sure we’ll see something like this in the books + those plotlines left outside the TV series. Martin, however, will have all the time & space to make it better (or not, who knows LOL).

        Quote  Reply

    141. And once again everyone is crying that D & D ruined it. They only ruined the visions in your head.

      The ONLY person that can truly say whether it is ruined or too far strayed from the original plan is G.R.R. Martin. I’m sure after next week’s episode he’ll be free to finally render opinions unless part of the money he excepted had a time limit/gag order.

      It does not matter how much anyone here loved any character or hated any character, it never was OUR story and it was only ever partially D&D’s story.

      People have been calling out that Danny was going to go off the deep end like the Mad King since before HBO invested a penny. Let G.R.R. Martin give us his thoughts, and hopefully some other pages in the near future.

      I have enjoyed the books. I have enjoyed the show. Despite their differences and divergences. So many people just hung the heck up on the version in their own damn heads.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Apollo:
      And seriously. What was even the point of the Golden Company and Harry feckin Strickland?

      Biggest waste of all time. They literally did nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    143. “Let it be fear, then.”

      Oh. My. God.

      So I thought the The Long Night would be the longest, most intense cardiac arrest that #GameOfThrones would ever deliver. They topped it. Somehow, they topped it.

      That episode. Absolutely heart-wrenching, and yet … it all fits. Perfectly.

      “Sandor … thank you.”

      “Nothing else matters.”

      I’m going to need a few minutes.

        Quote  Reply

    144. For me, the only bright spot was the arya and Sandor moment. Most of the rest was either disappointing, not credible, or a combo of the two. Pretty numb right now. Will probably post more tomorrow.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Dany at dragonstone was just so so sad – I’ve never been able to compare Dany to Cersie more than I did during that moment – both queens in their own right suffering with their losses

        Quote  Reply

    146. HelloThere:
      Onedon,

      Because they only have 2 episodes left to hit Martins vague bullet points.
      Which is all this season is.
      A live action telling of a bullet point list.

      And how were they supposed to finish this show, given the lethargy shown by the author on whose work it was based?

      Wait for George?

      You wanted a better ending to this show? Find a time machine and go back eight years to tell Martin THIS is what happens when he “gardens,” or whatever the hell he wants to call it.

        Quote  Reply

    147. weirwoodtreehugger,

      “Is anyone else with me here? I thought it was a horrific punch to the gut and despite many of my theories being shot to shit, I loved it. I don’t mind being wrong! I can’t be the only who doesn’t get all pissy because things don’t happen in the exact way I thought they would?”

      AGREE. If next week every single character dies I will be sad nothing I guess was correct, but I will be entertained none the less. Loved it.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Ice Hunter: You may be in the minority, but you are not alone.I also thought it was great.

      My first reaction was relief that Arya didn’t shoot her final scene in this episode. She appears in the preview for the finale. I’m sad so many here feel betrayed or disappointed in what happened. I think D&D had their own story to tell with what happens to the civilians and the regular people when the government just starts bombing. I agree with some here that I don’t really get it why Dany didn’t just go for the red keep and go after cersei and not just burn everyone on the streets. She did say she would be merciful for the next generation (not this one). I wouldn’t be surprised if GRRM had something like this in mind though. Otherwise Jon would have never turned on Dany. I did like the way Arya’s arc is going and she won’t just be out for total vengeance. I was amazed at how easy Drogon and Dany won the war, but it does make sense. What didn’t make sense is that Dany didn’t send out scouts before just blindly flying into an ambush last week. I am OK with the fact that once she knew about the scorpions, Drogon could fly above and around them and they wouldn’t matter.

      I can’t say I feel disappointed like so many others here. I feel heartbroken that so many characters died this week. I feel exhausted worrying as Arya ran with the people. It was a beautiful scene with her and the white horse at the end. I do see others points when they say Dany didn’t have to just burn everything down to the ground, since she already won. I do see that part and she could have just went right for Cersei if she wanted to take her revenge. But they wrote her that she snapped or she thought she needed to generate the most fear to rule. As she said in her scene with Jon, she chose fear (much like Cersei chose violence).

        Quote  Reply

    149. kathy: Maybe she will finally realize life is worth living after seeing all this horror and death.

      Nope. There is a difference between revenge — and justice.

      So Arya kills the NK to save the people from death — and Dany passes it out to them anyway? Without any reason at all?

      You saw in the preview the look Arya gives. That look was as she saw Daenerys marching out to claim victory in front of her troops. The same look Arya had before the Sept of Baelor.

      Nope. Aunt, meet boot.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Solar,

      For me, it’s not so much that Dany turned mad, it’s more about the pace in which it happened. The past two seasons have been rushed to the extent that it damaged the plot. It just seems so disjointed.

      I’m not one of those who is wailing because their favourite theory didn’t pan out, just that so much of the story didn’t make any sense. I felt as numb and dumbfounded as Jon. Maybe that was the intent.

      But I am pleased for you that you liked it, seems the majority don’t- all the hype from the cast was bang on- we will be divided 😬

        Quote  Reply

    151. fleasome:
      And once again everyone is crying that D & D ruined it.They only ruined the visions in your head.

      The ONLY person that can truly say whether it is ruined or too far strayed from the original plan is G.R.R. Martin.I’m sure after next week’s episode he’ll be free to finally render opinions unless part of the money he excepted had a time limit/gag order.

      It does not matter how much anyone here loved any character or hated any character, it never was OUR story and it was only ever partially D&D’s story.

      People have been calling out that Danny was going to go off the deep end like the Mad King since before HBO invested a penny.Let G.R.R. Martin give us his thoughts, and hopefully some other pages in the near future.

      I have enjoyed the books.I have enjoyed the show.Despite their differences and divergences.So many people just hung the heck up on the version in their own damn heads.

      I agree with you in everything, but even if I have defended this season so far, this episode just didn’t… feel right. Call it rushed, chaotic, too straight-to-the-point… I don’t know, it didn’t work for me.

        Quote  Reply

    152. JSchmeh,

      I loved it too. Jaime and Cersei died in each other’s arms, just the way they always wanted to. Honestly, it’s much more true to Jaime’s character that he can’t break away from Cersei, then if he settled down in the North with Brienne. (Quibble: she was really supposed to be pregnant? It wasn’t a ruse? If so, she should have been big as a house by now.)

      I loved Tyrion and Jaime’s goodbye, and Tyrion telling his brother how much he meant to him.

      I like Arya turning away from vengeance, though they did set her up to kill Dany in the finale.

      I’ve made my peace with Dany as the Mad Queen – they’ve been setting it up for a while. I thought Emilia Clarke sold the decision not to accept surrender pretty well through her facial expressions. She was distraught and furious and high on adrenaline, and then the bells ring – she looks around and the Red Keep is fine, thousands of enemy troops are fine and that’s supposed to be it? Rhaegal dead, Missandei dead and she’s supposed to play nice and let them get away with it as long as they surrender? No. Burn them all.

      While it looks very much that they are telegraphing Dany’s overthrow and the reign of morose King AeJon, I hope they don’t end it that way. My preferred ending would be to take out both Dany and Jon – and leave them scrambling for a new monarch. (Maybe Bran could make himself useful and pronounce Tyrion a bastard Targaryen after all – hee hee.). Though there is much to be said for leaving mad Queen Dany in charge. This is Game of Thrones – who expects a happy ending?

        Quote  Reply

    153. Jon Snowed,

      That almost rape was from a Northern soldier which was a great callback to Brienne killing those Stark men for raping the tavern woman who “laid with lions.” I thought back to Jorah’s words: “There’s a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hands.” And poor Jon not wanting to kill at all after those bells rang.

        Quote  Reply

    154. That was some pretty shoddy masonry work in the Red Keep. Did anyone actually use any mortar anywhere? It’s amazing the thing stood up as long as it did. I think that’s what really sent Dany over the edge. I mean she came all this way and it turns out the place is a deathtrap. Best to burn it all down and start over.

        Quote  Reply

    155. It’s not the fact that she “burns them all” that bothers me. It’s how we got there. It felt SOOOOO forced. Guys, in your rush to end the show…you completely eliminated everything that made the first 4-5 seasons great.

        Quote  Reply

    156. I mean Danny was set up as a conqueror. She’s always talked about taking back what is hers and breaking the wheel, but we never hear what her plans for doing that really are. Setting up public education for the common folk, and creating other civil services were never mentioned. She’s only ever thought of getting power to take back the throne, and now she has. She’s lost what she had to get what she wanted. I think it is a fascinating character arc, perhaps a little rushed towards the end, but all tyrants start from somewhere and loss can deeply affect a person.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Michelle,

      In hindsight, that was terrible advice.

      Shy Lady Dragon,

      Like I mentioned before, my mom called it back in Season 1. Human nature doesn’t change.

      I suspect Jaime went back to die with her as punishment for the sins he did on her behalf. He can’t bring himself to kill her outright, but he made sure she was dead by dying with her. (That’s what I’m telling myself, at least – I wish Jaime did get that fairy tale ending with Brienne. This one is hard to swallow.)

        Quote  Reply

    158. Steel_Wind:
      Daenerys must die.

      No way she survives from here. Varys has likely informed the realm and nobody will support her other than through fear at this point. Arya will definitely have her on the list now. If only Tyrion had listened to Varys…

        Quote  Reply

    159. Pau:

      Also why can’t Jon be with her? Not properly explained. I guess he saw her craziness?

      Think of your aunt. Any of them. If you don’t have an aunt, than think of your uncle.

      Now imagine fucking them.

      Question answered.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Still numb.

      It was an excellent, dark, beyond bleak episode that many will hate, but my first reaction is that it was a shocking, surprising, heartbreaking episode.

      Still numb though.

        Quote  Reply

    161. Jon was useless. He should have watched and ate popcorn on the hill with Davos and Tyrion. Arya will cut a bitch soon. GC pissed their armor when exposed to the dragon. RiP Sandor…good on you. Varys…you died many episodes ago. Scorpions can’t overcome evade and rear/side/below approach skills! Dany must have been playing Diablo during her prep.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Braincandy:
      Why are people surprised by Dany’s actions?She told Jon she’ll rule by “fear than” when he rejected her.

      “Rule by fear” is a plausible strategy. And she had won. Then she just randomly decides to destroy the city after she’s won.

      Jon did nothing when she burned Varys.

      Because, as Jon said, treason is punishable by death.

        Quote  Reply

    163. weirwoodtreehugger,

      I totally agree with you 100%. I don’t think a lot of people were ready for the tragedy the story was certain to turn into. A lot of people in denial who obviously pictured happier endings in their mind.

      GRRM is all about showing the horrors of war. People are the real monsters.

        Quote  Reply

    164. I’ve always been supportive of the show, but this is the biggest screw-up in the history of television. D&D don’t ever need to be allowed to direct anything ever again. Man I hope GRRM finishes the books now and at least explains this mess better. What a waste of great character development.

        Quote  Reply

    165. And so one of the greatest actress on “Game of Thrones” died in a year when she should have shone. Lena Headey is AMAZING actress but simply she did nothing this year. I am so saddened that this performance will not get the recognition it deserves because the script didn’t allow her.

      Arya was saved one too many times this night. And it just became ridiculous.

      And now we know what was the problem with all previous episodes and why they should have been much better. So, when the time came and Dany made that flight, we would understand the depth of her pain. That, unfortunately, wasn’t done properly.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Wow…….just, wow. Still trying to digest, but I could totally see this being GRRM’s ending.
      We thought we were getting ready to watch the “good guys” win, and the “bad guys” lose. But there are no good guys in war. There is only death and destruction. I think the best (and worst) part of the episode for me, was watching Jon and Arya’s dawning realization that they were complicit in what was happening. Gut wrenching stuff. Gwendoline was right. We WILL all need therapy after this!

        Quote  Reply

    167. And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him.

      Anyone else think that at the end with Arya?

        Quote  Reply

    168. HousePotterz,

      It is what it is.
      I’m not giving any advince.
      Maybe finishing this show properly would take 30 episodes and 6 years.
      But this is where we are. And thats how it is.

        Quote  Reply

    169. fleasome:
      weirwoodtreehugger,

      “Is anyone else with me here? I thought it was a horrific punch to the gut and despite many of my theories being shot to shit, I loved it. I don’t mind being wrong! I can’t be the only who doesn’t get all pissy because things don’t happen in the exact way I thought they would?”

      AGREE.If next week every single character dies I will be sad nothing I guess was correct, but I will be entertained none the less.Loved it.

      I liked it. I think.

      Still nauseated and reeling a bit however.

      The worst I imagined she was capable of was destroying the red keep. When she flew off despite the bells ringing I thought she was taking a run at Cersei… That she actually took Drogon on a bloody bombing run of the homes and businesses of the broader city had my mouth literally hanging open from there through till the end of the episode.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Solar,

      My car makes weird noises. Yes I know there’s some problems that need fixing but I do not expect it to die tomorrow! ☺️

      I think you have faith in someone for a long time you tend to believe they’ll make the right choice. I did NOT expect Dany out of all people who has been a hero for 1/4 of Essos to be a villain for 1/4 of Westeros though I was aware of her family history. And for the record if this history holds true then I suppose I should fear for and of Jon too. Because you never know with these Targaryens.

      I am fully disappointed in Dany. She should have been better than this. And could have been better too. Tyrion and Sansa will rule. And Arya will assassinate Dany. Mad people ruling is not an option.

      I think the ep was fantastically filmed for the Arya and Jaime sequences and their acting was exceptional. My hats off to Maisie and NWC.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Need to watch the episode again before I share more impressions. But…I do want to say:

      Dany is not the Mad Queen. At least not yet. There’s no evidence her sanity is compromised like the Mad King. She is a product of her upbringing, of her brother, of her forced marriage and essentially growing into an adult with Dothraki influences, of her expectations (“The people in Westeros cry out for their rightful king” etc. etc.), her successes and her failures.

      Burning the city might not have been a benevolent thing to do, but it wasn’t crazy. It was war. And did anyone tell HER that the bells meant surrender? Because I only saw Tyrion tell Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    172. Solar,

      From what i have seen since episode three, the issues have been with how DnD told the major plot points.

      What was the point of the NK n WW ? If Jon didnt go north n wight hunting; the wall would not fall the dead would not march south.

      I personally dont have an issue with Danny going mad, just dont understand why she kill the common ppl when the battle is won. Watching inside the episode, i still dont get it. She felt alone, but why burn the city she wanted to rule from.

        Quote  Reply

    173. Mr Derp: I assume Jaime rang the bell, since he had a conversation with Tyrion about ringing the bell.

      I watch with the closed captioning on and all during those tense moments before the bells rang there were random soldiers yelling to each other for someone to hurry up and ring the bells. Jaime was on his way down to the beach.

        Quote  Reply

    174. Long time reader. This is my first post.

      GOT is rapidly approaching “LOST” territory with the series ending. The majority of the northern coalition was sacrificed to save the rest of Westeros, and then they kill the entire citizenry of Kings Landing? And what, Arya found the only place in Kings Landing that was safe? Please. Fans getting screwed big time on this one.

        Quote  Reply

    175. Sanrya: Wow…….just, wow. Still trying to digest, but I could totally see this being GRRM’s ending.

      I highly doubt it. GRRM’s book budget is unlimited, but it doesn’t get extra ooohs and aaaaahs from burning them all. It’s a different medium. It has different payoffs.

        Quote  Reply

    176. It was a great, thrilling episode. I have loved Dany since Day One but they got their point across tonight. It makes me sad, though.

      The only thing I didn’t like is Cersei’s death. She didn’t deserve to be comforted and certainly not something as passionless as rocks. Her death in the books will surely be different.

        Quote  Reply

    177. People think Jon and Tyrion were totally fine with Varys getting unceremoniously toasted? I saw troubled looks on their faces. But the sunk cost fallacy is a powerful thing. They put their faith in her. They were wrong. Now they know.

      And Sansa, as usual, was right. Sansa and Arya are the sensible ones of this series. People hated Sansa for not trusting Dany, but she was right. Funny how I’m not seeing Tyrion catching hate for ratting out Varys though. Huh.

      In my post that got eaten earlier, I said that GRRM was perhaps smart to hold off on finishing the books until the show finished, because D&D will bear the brunt of the nerd rage. How right I was!

      That said, I do for the first time feel a little funny about naming the adorable little kitty in my avatar “Dracarys.” She is feisty, but not burn down a whole city feisty!

        Quote  Reply

    178. Gh3ttoK!nG.,

      HBO viewers don’t realize how ruthless and insensitive book Dany is. Still, this episode left me absolutely numb, if viewers complain (sure many will) this is true ancient medieval destruction of a city. Hundreds of such utter destruction occurred over countless centuries, with tens of millions perishing in the ensuing slaughter. The problem with Americans is we’ve never experienced total war over here, except for the Civil War. Therefore Americans have the inability to think worst case scenarios, instead to believe in better Angel’s; this was Tyrion’s and Jon’s grievous error. In warfare count on the bad angels to prevail.
      BTW, someone mentioned Vietnam bombings, it wasn’t our politicians, they were covering for the fact they had no control over our B52 and fighter pilots. I would often hear as a teen frequenting the officers club in the 80’s, pilots laughing and talking about destroying towns highways, bridges loaded with people and vehicles. You see back then once bombs were armed they had to be dropped, our pilots didn’t like wasting them on fishes, therefore they bombed whatever was within site, the more slaughtered, the more infrastructure damaged the better. Why has Congress and the Pentagon created this clusterfuc process of relaying and asking permission for even one kill. This was a consequence of our military men making their own decision to fight war the old fashioned medieval way, politics and the public can piss off. I remember one B52 pilot mentioned he wished he flown his payload back here and obliterate Cal-Berkley.
      My point is, in the end the men at arms decide how to fight, not leaders, which is why Jon lost control. Dany was just behaving like our B52 pilots in Vietnam.

        Quote  Reply

    179. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      I am a big believer in ones environment influencing what you beome, but there is also nature helping nuture along. But in the end it doesn’t matter. Shes dead; at least I hope so

      Oh and yeah, DH and I were laughing at the plot armour Arya was wearing. Glad about it, but still…

        Quote  Reply

    180. Brandon: Man I hope GRRM finishes the books now and at least explains this mess better. What a waste of great character development.

      When/if GGRM finishes the books, I think it will all make sense and be awesome. The problem with the show is the timeline got shrunk (D&D wanted to move on to Confederate, and when that didn’t work out, Star Wars) and so we jetpacked forward in the plot. Now as fans we’re all scratching our heads trying to figure out what is happening and why.

        Quote  Reply

    181. HousePotterz,

      Yeah, if Martin had just gotten “Winds” out at least, maybe reactions wouldn’t be as mixed. Of course Martin is free to do whatever he wants, but still. . .

        Quote  Reply

    182. How can there be anything ‘sweet’ left to come next episode now?

      Was the whole ‘bittersweet’ dogma just because they couldn’t say “the ending will be bleaker than you could ever imagine”?

      I can see how Dany went dark – I don’t know if they fully sold me on the fact that she would burn the entire city to the ground – but what I can’t see is a way back from this that is good in any way… I can’t.

        Quote  Reply

    183. weirwoodtreehugger:
      Everyone after episode 3:“This is too much like a Disney story!Everyone got off too easy!Nobody important died!It wasn’t horrifying enough!”

      Everyone after episode 5:“Why is this show so dark and violent and mean!?Why did the things that have been clearly projected since the beginning happen!?”

      My only real complaints were, why were the scorpions such a deadly obstacle for the dragons last week, but now Drogon just casually burns em up?And why didn’t Jaime kill Cersei, even if it was a mercy killing?But the first one I can forgive.It’s not battle strategy or battle at all I’m here for.It’s the drama and the conflict.

      Other than that, it more than met my expectations.My favorite thing about this show and the books too is how it highlights our skewed morality.If nameless extras die, who cares as long as the heroes win?That’s how things are in pop culture.How much death and destruction happen in fantasy, sci-fi and superhero stories?Death and destruction that we never are encouraged to care about?GoT/ASOIAF is different.We spend seasons and seasons cheering the fire and blood.Then we finally see the consequences and it’s not quite so majestic and heroic and awesome is it?It’s not like a fairytale or an epic.It was never going to be.Never supposed to be.

      What exactly was it that people were expecting or wanting?

      Like Ramsay told us, “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

      Did people just tell themselves that somehow there would be violence, but it wouldn’t be upsetting and visceral?Or that all the bloodshed and horror of the story so far would lead us to a better future?Really, I don’t get it.What’s the beef?

      Is anyone else with me here?I thought it was a horrific punch to the gut and despite many of my theories being shot to shit, I loved it.I don’t mind being wrong!I can’t be the only who doesn’t get all pissy because things don’t happen in the exact way I thought they would?

      I’m with you. What is striking me is the number of people in denial here in the comments and probably elsewhere. This is the sad reality mankind has been facing since the dawn of times. A certain taste for blood unleashed by infinite power is a recipe for disaster…

      Mad, haunting, fantastic episode.

        Quote  Reply

    184. RBloodworth:
      I never thought that I’d say this, but, Linda and Elio, I apologize.You were right.You were right all along.

      I certainly wouldn’t go that far, but the last two episodes are by far the lowest-rated GoT episodes ever, and ratings usually go down instead of up. Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (Sansa rape episode and Sandsnake Snafu) rated 8.1. This episode is already 7.4 and last episode was 6.4. Six!!!! The highest rating this season for Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is only 8.6, which is probably even less than an average episode in all previous seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    185. Where you at the peeps called us haters and irrational for speculating a madqueen Dany????
      I ain’t happy about it but still. Signs were there like or not. I just don’t understand the bell part.

        Quote  Reply

    186. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Maybe Sandor sent her a pony. :/

      Maisie was BRILLIANT, the roller coaster of emotions was expertly portrayed. She did more physically this season than any of the male actors. I hope she gets a lot of recognition, she deserves it!

        Quote  Reply

    187. howtathor:
      Last night I watched the merciless bombing of North Vietnam just to force a point at the negotiating table. We’ve become desensitized by war whether itbe in Syria or Yemen or wherever. Innocent lives are being lost every day. D & D really hit home how senseless the carnage is. The bells were ringing; the war was over. Mad queen indeed! Dany has lost my allegiance fwiw. At least Arya made it out…btw the Clegane Bowl was spectacular!

      I share your perspective on warfaring, desensitizing and the victims being the ordinary citizens and soldiers. And one of GRRM’s main messages in his world building.

      I found the episode seat-gripping. Resisted always believing Dany would go mad, but I see she feels there’s nothing left and even winning the realm wasn’t enough for all that was lost to get there. Thus, her anger and pain released because she had nothing left to lose and lost sight of purpose.

      The scenes were freaking incredible. Gleganebowl was filmed far better than I ever imagined. The final scenes of Arya overlooking the battle torn city, sickened by death. Drogon taking out the snipers handily. Euron dying alone as a crazed idiot. Qyburn being cast aside as a powerless twat. Jon totally not into fighting a battle without a purpose.

      GRRM was correct, of course, that you couldn’t complete the story in 2 finals seasons of less episodes. Still confused how armies build, crumble and rebuild so easily this season. Other than that, I’d say Avengers has had way more plot holes and nobody complains about them. We need to stop thinking GOT had to end perfectly. It never was, but rather, a fabulous consortium of talent and imagination of incredible scenes and heartfelt moments in a world we can only dream about with a mix of fear and yearning.

      I’ll take it and try not to mourn for what a few more seasons could have improved upon.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Che:
      How can there be anything ‘sweet’ left to come next episode now?

      Was the whole ‘bittersweet’ dogma just because they couldn’t say “the ending will be bleaker than you could ever imagine”?

      I can see how Dany went dark – I don’t know if they fully sold me on the fact that she would burn the entire city to the ground – but what I can’t see is a way back from this that is good in any way… I can’t.

      The only thing I can see now that would be even remotely “sweet”, is that a completely new system of governing comes about, which champions the plight of the common man. A breaking of the wheel, as it were.

        Quote  Reply

    189. Ginevra: I certainly wouldn’t go that far, but the last two episodes are by far the lowest-rated GoT episodes ever, and ratings usually go down instead of up.Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken (Sansa rape episode and Sandsnake Snafu) rated 8.1.This episode is already 7.4 and last episode was 6.4.Six!!!!The highest rating this season for Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is only 8.6, which is probably even less than an average episode in all previous seasons.

      There were people downvoting the episode with 1-point votes hours before it premiered. Same with previous episodes. I didn’t like it, but don’t take IMDB or other rating webs as something reliable.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Flora Linden: Yeah, if Martin had just gotten “Winds” out at least, maybe reactions wouldn’t be as mixed.

      You are assuming Cersei makes it alive out of TWoW. I expect that she does not.

      Cleganebowl will happen in book 6, not 7. The Mountain will lose that fight. And Cerseit will be executed by the Church.

      There is no “boom goes Sept of Baelor” in GRRM’s tale. The “little brother” that kills her is Sandor Clegane.

        Quote  Reply

    191. I am shocked. I was ready for fire and blood and thought everything that happened up until the bells rang made complete sense. And when she looked at the red keep I thought it would have also made sense for her to go on and destroy it with Cersei in it, as happened. For many reasons. But to burn the city . . . a completion of Aerys arc? I just don’t know how to think about it. That even in victory, she needed to demonstrate that she will be merciless so as to instill the kind of fear she will need to rule? Or in looking at the red keep something in her snapped about how she would never be able to rule as her ancestors did?

      So Tyrion leaves her service?

      Jon challenges Daenerys?

      Arya kills the queen?

      A great council meets in the ruins of kings landing?

      I still think this ends with jon going into exile beyond the wall and reuniting with Ghost.

      And how about that Maise Williams? She is getting some awesome screentime and scenes this season!

        Quote  Reply

    192. Che: My husband stayed up with me to watch this time and he loved it. All the way through he was saying how good it was.

      Me? I’m actually numb.

      My first reaction was that it was the weakest of S8 but still good overall. Looking on social media people either love it or hate it. The majority of hate revolves around people not believing Dany would do that.

        Quote  Reply

    193. I am still stuck on Sansa’s line

      maybe there is another

      Did she mean her brother or was she proposing another candidate? Herself?

        Quote  Reply

    194. Ginevra,

      After episode 3 it didn’t matter what happened in episodes 4-6 they were always going to be the lowest rated of all time. Once episode 3 aired and was a disappointment it became the trend to hate the show and writers and nerd rage about how it has all been ruined. They weren’t going to suddenly change their mind about the show after nerd raging so hard after episode 3.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Mladen,

      I agree about Lena. But I do love her final conversation with Jaime. It was beautifully acted on both parts. As for Arya- i believe that was intentional and meant to be fantastical. There is more to come next episode I think. She didn’t necessarily dodge that fire. I think she did not burn. She was surrounded by ash and that horse was waiting for her. Colour me intrigued.

        Quote  Reply

    196. Fantastic. Loved it. Exactly what people were NOT expecting. No full explanation yet of Dany’s Rampage but maybe that comes next week. Regardless, she was hedging towards crazy for the last two episodes and has shown this in every season.

      Hearing the bells and pulling back would have been 100% cliche which everyone would have bitched about. So Dany going nuts and ballistic…sure, I c an see that. It’s in her blood, she’s shown the signs, was just betrayed by Varys and Jon who shafted her as well. So when she had the chance she just said…screw it. I’m done.

      Lots of hate on here and that sucks. That episode was masterful. Suspense was on point. Build up with music. CGI of course. The pacing and craziness and horror was wonderfully done by Miguel.

      Some issues of course like every show ever created. Didn’t like Euron coming out of water right when Jaime was there. Gold cloaks were a waste but whatever. I LIKE the red herrings that this show has created.

      One of the best scenes in this entire series was the Tyrion / Jaime farewell. I legit cried while my wife was looking at me like I was weird. Such good acting and the writing for that scene was perfect IMO.

      In this environment of hatred for D&D and excess fandom for hate in general, I am very happy with how it played out tonight. With this crowd I’m sure I’m in the minority. Lots and lots of you waiting to spew ugliness.

      That was amazing entertainment. And with GRRM giving D&D the ending…y’all can expect the same in 28 years when the books are finished.

        Quote  Reply

    197. Shy Lady Dragon,

      You’re welcome! I’m not mad at Jaime’s decision, but it’s sad that he gave up on himself and thought being with Cersei is inevitable, even after a second chance with Brienne. Dany gave up on herself too, just sad.

      Jon Snowed,

      I guess not all perished at the Winterfell battle. Or she gained CGI powers.

      Tyjon,

      Thanks for the bombing stories. I’m currently reading a book on the Russian Romanovs, and all the wars they engaged in took thousands of lives. Until you see and experience it yourself, you never realize how terrible war destruction is.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Apollo,

      No, but I also don’t remember anyone telling her that the bells meant surrender.

      Also, anger and revenge are not insanity.

        Quote  Reply

    199. It was perfect. Everything was perfect. The music elevated every scene to the level of brilliance.

      It was not what I imagined; it was better.

      The Clegane battle, with the building collapsing about them and Drogo flying above, could not have been better.

      Varys, silly Varys, not a good twist to his tale. Harry Strickland, just a misdirection after all. How cool was that?

      I had hoped Jon would be killed, but I don’t mind at all that he is still standing. I hope next week Dany tells Drogo to DRACARYS Jon, and Jon emerges unscathed from the flames, because he is a true Targaryen. I still hope Dany rules (or anyone other than Jon), but I’m so happy with the artistry of this episode, I can accept any ending, even the obvious.

        Quote  Reply

    200. I found the episode seat-gripping.Resisted always believing Dany would go mad, but I see she feels there’s nothing left and even winning the realm wasn’t enough for all that was lost to get there.Thus, her anger and pain released because she had nothing left to lose and lost sight of purpose.

      The scenes were freaking incredible.Gleganebowl was filmed far better than I ever imagined.The final scenes of Arya overlooking the battle torn city, sickened by death.Drogon taking out the snipers handily.Euron dying alone as a crazed idiot.Qyburn being cast aside as a powerless twat.Jon totally not into fighting a battle without a purpose.

      I think this is a good interpretation of Daenerys’ mindset and why even in victory she needed to vent her rage.

      And i agree with you that Sopotchnik did a fabulous job.

        Quote  Reply

    201. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      Q: With all the tricks Cersei has pulled, could anyone trust that bells ringing = battle over?

      Dany’s facial expressions were not saying “This may be a trap. I must reluctantly continue the attack until I am sure my people will be safe.” They were saying “Fuck this. Burn them all.” Grey Worm, ditto.

      But in the end, it’s as surprising that Cersei went down that quietly as that Dany went mad queen.

        Quote  Reply

    202. weirwoodtreehugger:
      Everyone after episode 3:“This is too much like a Disney story!Everyone got off too easy!Nobody important died!It wasn’t horrifying enough!”

      Everyone after episode 5:“Why is this show so dark and violent and mean!?Why did the things that have been clearly projected since the beginning happen!?”

      My only real complaints were, why were the scorpions such a deadly obstacle for the dragons last week, but now Drogon just casually burns em up?And why didn’t Jaime kill Cersei, even if it was a mercy killing?But the first one I can forgive.It’s not battle strategy or battle at all I’m here for.It’s the drama and the conflict.

      Other than that, it more than met my expectations.My favorite thing about this show and the books too is how it highlights our skewed morality.If nameless extras die, who cares as long as the heroes win?That’s how things are in pop culture.How much death and destruction happen in fantasy, sci-fi and superhero stories?Death and destruction that we never are encouraged to care about?GoT/ASOIAF is different.We spend seasons and seasons cheering the fire and blood.Then we finally see the consequences and it’s not quite so majestic and heroic and awesome is it?It’s not like a fairytale or an epic.It was never going to be.Never supposed to be.

      What exactly was it that people were expecting or wanting?

      Like Ramsay told us, “if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”

      Did people just tell themselves that somehow there would be violence, but it wouldn’t be upsetting and visceral?Or that all the bloodshed and horror of the story so far would lead us to a better future?Really, I don’t get it.What’s the beef?

      Is anyone else with me here?I thought it was a horrific punch to the gut and despite many of my theories being shot to shit, I loved it.I don’t mind being wrong!I can’t be the only who doesn’t get all pissy because things don’t happen in the exact way I thought they would?

      100% with you.

        Quote  Reply

    203. JasonLong:
      I am still stuck on Sansa’s line

      Did she mean her brother or was she proposing another candidate? Herself?

      Seriously? She was talking about Jon. That is when she told Tyrion about Jon/Aegon’s parentage.

      ThisGirlHasNoName:
      Apollo,

      No, but I also don’t remember anyone telling her that the bells meant surrender.

      Also, anger and revenge are not insanity.

      Tyrion told her. It was the last thing he said to her in the throne room on dragonstone, just before she tells him about Jamie being captured.

        Quote  Reply

    204. Che,

      “How can there be anything ‘sweet’ left to come next episode now?”

      A Queen loved by the common folk ascends the throne.

        Quote  Reply

    205. G. R. R. Martin is a known pacifist. I cam see how this ending is a metaphor for the horrors of nuclear war (with the dragon as the equivalent of the bomb) but also as a way to achieve lasting victory. This is basically WWII, the bombing of Hiroshima, and the moral wrestling of deploying ultimate destruction to obliterate a prior evil. If you are a pacifist, the only way to show this as something to be wrestled with is to have those we presume to be the good guys (Danaerys, the US) drop the bomb. The effect is haunting. But, I think making us like and sympathize with Dany before she unleashes her weapn is the only way a pacifist makes his point. I can see this as how the books end—easy. But I am sure the journey there will be better handled and much more nuanced/developed that what we got in season 8. Still, as much as I wanted merciful Dany, I can now see this as Martin’s end game all along.

        Quote  Reply

    206. I’m still amazed by how awesome that episode was. I understood people’s complaints with the White Walker arc ending so quickly, and the believability-stretching Rhaegal kill last episode. But this episode was absolutely incredible. I really feel sorry for anyone who couldn’t enjoy that.

        Quote  Reply

    207. JamesL:
      Ginevra,

      After episode 3 it didn’t matter what happened in episodes 4-6 they were always going to be the lowest rated of all time. Once episode 3 aired and was a disappointment it became the trend to hate the show and writers and nerd rage about how it has all been ruined. They weren’t going to suddenly change their mind about the show after nerd raging so hard after episode 3.

      If Episode 3 is the problem, why is Episode 4 almost 2 full points lower than Episode 3? And why was the controversy over Episode 3 not nearly the hype that Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken took? Like not even 10% of the outrage over the Sansa rape was given to Episode 3.

        Quote  Reply

    208. Did Davos betray the Starks/Dany for getting the boat for Tyrion for Jaime/Cersei? I don’t know why he would do that.

        Quote  Reply

    209. TormundsWoman:
      Solar,

      I think you have faith in someone for a long time you tend to believe they’ll make the right choice. I did NOT expect Dany out of all people who has been a hero for 1/4 of Essos to be a villain for 1/4 of Westeros though I was aware of her family history. And for the record if this history holds true then I suppose I should fear for and of Jon too. Because you never know with these Targaryens.

      Not all Targaryens “burned them all”, though. As Varys said, it’s like a “flip of the coin” with these Targaryens.

        Quote  Reply

    210. ash:
      flintstonewielder,

      ah, ok then it certainly would have if Id said it

      Hey, actually GRRM finished both tWoW and aDoS already – he is just holding them back until the show is wrapp-…

      Damn, I can´t even finish this with a straight face…

        Quote  Reply

    211. ThisGirlHasNoName:

      Burning the city might not have been a benevolent thing to do, but it wasn’t crazy. It was war. And did anyone tell HER that the bells meant surrender? Because I only saw Tyrion tell Jon.

      But those people were innocent…

      Yes, Tyrion told her in the throne room when she was discussing her plans with him and GW.

        Quote  Reply

    212. Lady MarMar,

      I’m with ya, sista. Such an entertaining episode and whatever ending comes my way will be just fine. I know it won’t be conventional and probably tragic and that’s fine with me.

        Quote  Reply

    213. Ginevra: If Episode 3 is the problem, why is Episode 4 almost 2 full points lower than Episode 3?

      Girl, forget ratings on IMDB and similar sites. There is a concerted nerd-rage effort going on by some sub-reddits to purposely downvote the show, incl. creating multiple accounts to do so.

        Quote  Reply

    214. Did anyone catch that glorious Arya was trying to lead the survivors to safety because of the wrath of the dragonlords a la Nymeria? Loved that touch. Heartbreaking.

      Dark Sister,

      Curiously, do you think the horse resembled Dany’s silver on purpose?

      Hodors Bastard,

      LOL, right on all points

      Sanrya,

      Even Grey Worm turned bad.

      ThisGirlHasNoName,

      Oh dear. Yes, she was told about the bells. And she went mad, no question.

      Onedon,

      Because she wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms, through fear. She told Jon that was her angle.

      King’s Landing is just the beginning. She obviously has her eye on punishing Sansa.

        Quote  Reply

    215. Ginevra: If Episode 3 is the problem, why is Episode 4 almost 2 full points lower than Episode 3?

      Some people were hate-voting the episode hours before it aired, even with no leaks (AFAIK).

        Quote  Reply

    216. Gator5000e,

      Thank you for posting the link. Didn’t know they had them up already.

      Watched them and I have enjoyed the commentary of the actors but I’m not sure they have it right. Emilia talks of immense rejection and hurt and snapping and not Dany going mad. I’m skeptical. If that’s all there was Dany would be horrified at the consequences of her actions afterwards. If snapping was all there was. But this is a different ballgame. I think Benioff and Weiss have not called the ep The Mad Queen for nothing. Dany will have no remorse I think. Mad people have no remorse. A person who’s just processing grief and pain realizes what they did. My two cents.

        Quote  Reply

    217. Onedon,

      HBO wanted to, it was D&D that said no and demanded only 6 episodes. They said the could do the story justice in just 6…liar, liar pants on fire

        Quote  Reply

    218. Goddammit. Finally Jon says ‘I love you’ to Daenerys, something I’ve been longing for as I did with Ygritte, only for it to not be enough to overcome the incest barrier. It’s not enough to get Jon over the incest hump and it’s not enough to console Dany. And in the episode where Dany totally goes off the deep end, wholly and completely and I need a walk.

      I… no more tears left.

        Quote  Reply

    219. Though not what I wanted to see happen, I was riveted by this episode. It was horrible and suspenseful and incredible. I am sorry many felt this show is ruined. I believe tonight was a continuation of the theme of powerful people on the verge of victory, on the verge of realizing their destiny, and the lengths they will go to realize it and the weak and innocent people they end up destroying on the way, only to sow the seeds of their own destruction. Stannis burns Shireen and the troops leave him, Ramsey plays with the Starks and WunWun only to be defeated, Robb believes the rules don’t apply to him as to marriage and is too rigid with the Karstarks and is betrayed at the Red Wedding and so on. In Dany’s case, her actions after the bells rang make sense given that she was so devastated and angry and that she had just told Jon that she would rule by fear since she believed she would never be loved by the people of Westeros. Well, fear is now instilled, Kings Landing is destroyed, and all those innocents were murdered. But Jon Snow, who would have been the key to Dany’s acceptance as Queen, is a Stark in the image of Ned and cannot let this stand. Nor should he.

        Quote  Reply

    220. flintstonewielder: Girl, forget ratings on IMDB and similar sites. There is a concerted nerd-rage effort going on by some sub-reddits to purposely downvote the show, incl. creating multiple accounts to do so.

      Yes, and that was more true for UUU than any other episode ever.

        Quote  Reply

    221. How hilarious was Cersei excusing herself from the midst of the Cleganebowl??? Cersei is many things but a damn fool isn’t one of them. After seeing Qyburn dashed on the rocks (literally) and the look Gregor gives her, she said fuck this shit. Priceless.

        Quote  Reply

    222. I have a question about that shot at the end of Arya staring at the burnt corpse. Are we supposed to think that was Jon’s direwolf sword pommel? Does Arya think Jon’s dead?

        Quote  Reply

    223. Sam,

      Exactly. Not all, but you never know who will go mad or not. Jon’s heritage suddenly became a liability in my eyes. Maybe Tormund is right and he’s got the North in him, the real North to such an extent that cancels out whatever streak of Targaryen madness may hypothetically possess him. And maybe not having a dragon is also helpful. But it’s a 50% chance at this point for me.

        Quote  Reply

    224. I’ve rewatched the episode and I’ve realized why it failed for me: pace and time. Too much or too little, never the right amount. It’s been more a nuisance than a serious problem for me these last seasons, but tonight it became too obvious for my taste.

      I’ve got nothing against the plot, it’s been soooooo foreshadowed both in books and the show that it’s almost formulaic and boring XD

        Quote  Reply

    225. First I should say that I still believe this is the best TV series ever. Second, I’ve been drinking for hours, so that may cloud my judgement.

      My impression? I was mostly disappointed.

      I was disappointed in Varys’s death. I figured he’d at least have caused some notable damage before getting caught and torched. I was surprised Jon was seemingly okay with the method of execution.

      I was disappointed that Jaime got captured (made no sense to me) and that it was so easy for Tyrion to help him escape.

      I loved that Jaime struggled to make it back to Cercei, getting blocked at the gates etc. This felt real to me.

      I was disappointed that Euron so easily survived being torched, unscathed. And that he so conveniently washed up in the tiny alcove where Jaime was. Euron was a lame character and Jaime’s story should not have included any further interaction with him.

      I was disappointed that Jon wasn’t a more prominent figure in this episode. I did feel that his misgivings were real, but he still felt like a second-class character.

      I was disappointed that Cercei just kind of melted down into tears and didn’t have any tricks up her sleeve aside from the stingers.

      I was disappointed that The Mountain was a zombie that could not be killed. Sandor deserved a better opponent. I mean, I bought the fact that he was sort-of brought back to life, but I was never under the impression that he was basically immortal.

      I was disappointed that Jaime’s entire storyline, one of the very best in the show, was reduced to rubble. Literally. At the very least he could have off’ed Cercei when it was clear there was no hope, making him both simultaneously a hero and villain. Highlighting his never-ending conflict. Instead he just comforted her? Eh.

      I was disappointed that Cercei (supposedly) died in such a anti-climactic way. I find myself hoping that she emerges from the rubble next week and somehow keeps the iron throne.

      The only plot that I loved about this episode was Sandor and Arya.

      Aside from that, I thought the cinematography was outstanding and the music was perfect.

        Quote  Reply

    226. ThisGirlHasNoName:
      Burning the city might not have been a benevolent thing to do, but it wasn’t crazy. It was war. And did anyone tell HER that the bells meant surrender? Because I only saw Tyrion tell Jon.

      You’re wrong! Tyrion told it Dany when she said that mercy is their strength and not their weakness and told Grey Worm to ready the Unsullied. It’s around the 18th minute.

        Quote  Reply

    227. So Drogon has a flame that just tears through massive buildings and walls, but Jon can hide behind a small rock and be safe from Viserion. Either way, I feel like having s’mores for dessert.

        Quote  Reply

    228. I agree with those who enjoyed GOT tonight. It wasn’t what I expected, but it made sense to me and felt right. I was afraid there would be too much magic (face stealing, etc.), but the story was straightforward and the character scenes were enlightening. It was great!

        Quote  Reply

    229. Ten Bears:
      Minor detail: First time Arya ever addresses the Hound as “Sandor.”

      I mentally noted that. 😊
      ———-
      While the story isn’t finishing how I want it to, I’m doing my best to enjoy what I’m seeing. However, what I am thinking is that because the story isn’t ending in my personal favorite way it will be easier for me to accept that it’s over and move on.

        Quote  Reply

    230. Well, Dany finally had her “fuck it” moment. We’ve all been there.

      Mine was during a hockey game, when some guy was being a little too rough with our goalie. “Fuck it,” I thought, and skated over and cross checked him as hard as I could. It wasn’t rational. I didn’t care about the consequences. I just said, “fuck it, this is what I’m doing.”

      Emilia Clarke has been brilliant this season. She has played nearly all of her scenes to perfection. If there is anything lacking in the plotting that has led Dany to this point (and, yes, I’ll concede that there is), her performance has gone a long, long way to mitigating the flaws.

      Through Emilia’s facial expressions, I was able to recognize that Dany had her “fuck it” moment.

      The city had fallen. She had won. Thousands of her enemies lay dead, and many more were at her mercy. Cersei Lannister still lives.

      Why? Why should they live, when Missandei does not? When Rhaegal does not? When Jorah does not? Did I not come here to break the wheel?

      Well, fuck it. This is me breaking the wheel.

      And next week, she will have come down off that dragon and will have to face the consequences of her decision.

      I have a feeling it will be more than 2 minutes in the penalty box.

        Quote  Reply

    231. That almost rape was from a Northern soldier which was a great callback to Brienne killing those Stark men for raping the tavern woman who “laid with lions.” I thought back to Jorah’s words: “There’s a beast in every man, and it stirs when you put a sword in his hands.” And poor Jon not wanting to kill at all after those bells rang.

      I think Arya trying to help those huddling women and children by getting them out of the city was a great callback to Sansa in Blackwater too. They both have different ways of trying to help, but they both did try. They seem so different and at odds at the beginning of the series, but in the end, they have so much more in common then they thought. I like that. It’s also why I think the one ray of hope in such a dark episode is that as vengeful as Arya is, she won’t ever murder civilians to take vengeance. If she does kill Dany, it’ll be sneaky and there won’t be any collateral damage besides maybe Grey Worm.

      Wow. Sapochnik is a fucking BEAST!!!

      Yes. One of things I always thought the books did so much better than the TV series was show us how devastating and brutal war really is. How the most vulnerable people suffer and die so that the wealthy and powerful can grasp for more wealth and power. Finally the show brought this home for us. I keeping coming back to the word “visceral.” Sapochnik really, really didn’t spare us. The audience was not let off the hook for cheering for any side in any of these battles. I’m privileged to live in a country that does a lot more inflicting than being inflicted upon. I expect most of the other people commenting do too. We’re insulated from the realities of war. Not just in life, but in popular culture as well. We’ve been made to face an uncomfortable truth in a fictional fantasy show. Good. We should be uncomfortable with battle. This was some fantastic work by Miguel Sapochnik. I can’t wait to see what he does next.

        Quote  Reply

    232. ThisGirlHasNoName:
      I was surprised Jon was seemingly okay with the method of execution.

      While they accepted it, I’m not sure he or Tyrion were entirely on board with the method of execution – Jon looked perturbed by it after it was done.

        Quote  Reply

    233. Team_Sansa:

      I’ve made my peace with Dany as the Mad Queen – they’ve been setting it up for a while. I thought Emilia Clarke sold the decision not to accept surrender pretty well through her facial expressions.She was distraught and furious and high on adrenaline, and then the bells ring – she looks around and the Red Keep is fine, thousands of enemy troops are fine and that’s supposed to be it?Rhaegal dead, Missandei dead and she’s supposed to play nice and let them get away with it as long as they surrender? No.Burn them all.

      This makes sense to me and mirrors Emilia’s comments in the post-episode materials.

        Quote  Reply

    234. Ten Bears,

      That was such a small and intimate thing to do. I positively loved it. It reminded me that Arya still has a vulnerability and she still has a choice. I’m not sure she’ll make that choice now she’s seen Dany do the whole “light them all up” number on KL but it was there and Sandor allowed her to considering it for a 1/5 of the ep.

        Quote  Reply

    235. fleasome:
      And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him.
      Anyone else think that at the end with Arya?

      You beat me to it. Yea, I thought it right away, the Pale Mare. One of the things Quaithe warned Dany about was the pale mare. In the books, anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    236. TormundsWoman:
      Sam,

      Exactly. Not all, but you never know who will go mad or not. Jon’s heritage suddenly became a liability in my eyes. Maybe Tormund is right and he’s got the North in him, the real North to such an extent that cancels out whatever streak of Targaryen madness may hypothetically possess him. And maybe not having a dragon is also helpful. But it’s a 50% chance at this point for me.

      I’ve always seen Dany as fire, full of fiery feelings and emotions and completely ungoverned and unchecked by ice-cold logic. Pure ice-cold logic might be bad, too, because you’ve got to have empathy and compassion in order not to be a robot. I wouldn’t want to be ruled by a robot. But Jon is the marriage of ice and fire, hopefully the right balance of logic and emotion. Of course, almost everything else huge (AAR, TPTWP, valonqar) that has been set up for the end hasn’t happened, so perhaps Jon is a red herring, too.

        Quote  Reply

    237. Leuf:
      That was some pretty shoddy masonry work in the Red Keep.Did anyone actually use any mortar anywhere?It’s amazing the thing stood up as long as it did.I think that’s what really sent Dany over the edge.I mean she came all this way and it turns out the place is a deathtrap.Best to burn it all down and start over.

      Lololololol

        Quote  Reply

    238. Papa Legba:
      G. R. R. Martin is a known pacifist.I cam see how this ending is a metaphor for the horrors of nuclear war (with the dragon as the equivalent of the bomb) but also as a way to achieve lasting victory.This is basically WWII, the bombing of Hiroshima, and the moral wrestling of deploying ultimate destruction to obliterate a prior evil.If you are a pacifist, the only way to show this as something to be wrestled with is to have those we presume to be the good guys (Danaerys, the US) drop the bomb.The effect is haunting.But, I think making us like and sympathize with Dany before she unleashes her weapn is the only way a pacifist makes his point.I cansee this as how the books end—easy.But I am sure the journey there will be better handled and much more nuanced/developed that what we got in season 8.Still, as much as I wanted merciful Dany, I can now see this as Martin’s end game all along.

      Yes, GRRM is a pacifist, but I believe that he goes one step further. Not only does he make us sympathize with Dany before the big bomb, but he makes us see that, in wiping out a previous evil (vengeance) we create a new one, and on and on and on. Only by learning to work together, to turn the other cheek, to live and let live, do we have any chance for peace. History should have taught us that war and vengeance will NEVER result in peace. You know that old saying about the definition of insanity…

        Quote  Reply

    239. Oh I forgot one thing. As much as I found this episode to be disappointing, Maisie Williams is a ROCK STAR. She blew me away on every level. She stole the show, and the season.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Dany passed the point of no return this week. She was doing ok until that strafing run of civilians. I have a feeling she will threaten Arya next week & Jon will kill her. Despite the show toning down their bond somewhat, Book Jon would kill the world for Arya & vice versa. That will officially be the last straw.

        Quote  Reply

    241. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      Q: With all the tricks Cersei has pulled, could anyone trust that bells ringing = battle over?

      You’re right that no one could trust her, but the GC was totally destroyed, the Lannisters surrendered, and the scorpions were all destroyed… so she really didn’t have any other cards to play other than flee. These will be Jon’s points. I felt like I was there right with Jon.

      When I watched, I just thought Dany had her sites on Cersei and she would go straight for her. I was thinking, ‘I guess Arya won’t need to get there and I hope Arya won’t get burned alive when Drogon kills Cersei’. I really didn’t feel like she was going to burn the whole city on the way. That being said, I’m not as upset as many others about seeing Dany choose “fear” over mercy. I’m thinking she went through with what she told Jon, Tyrion and Grey worm (that she will go with fear then, and save mercy for future generations) She let out the real fire and blood of the Targ’s. So, I didn’t have the same reaction as so many others that I was disappointed in the episode.
      I wasn’t ready for so many of my favorites to die this episode. I thought I got myself much more prepared for their deaths after hearing Jenny’s song in episode 2 as we were about fight the AOTD. I’m not sure what I was expecting, but I didn’t think the death toll would be so high this episode for Jaime, Varys, Cersei, the Hound, the Mountain, Qyburn, and almost Arya. In the end, I think GRRM and D&D are saying that man is the bigger enemy. Bombing wars are something that are quite common in our lifetime, and I thought they wanted us to feel what it would be like on the ground. I thought this was accomplished. Bombing from a distance is in fact from a distance, and you don’t experience what really happens on the ground. I know many here are very invested in their character’s story arcs, so they may have problems with how the arcs ended or that a death wasn’t spectacular enough. In the end, they died, and it’s honestly not more satisfying to me to see them tortured. I thought Jaime’s end with Cersei was sad. I thought Jaime had grown beyond Cersei, but in the end, it was still all about Cersei for him. I do think we saw Jaime’s best self with Brienne, but in the end, he couldn’t abandon Cersei.

        Quote  Reply

    242. Steel_Wind,

      I highly doubt it. GRRM’s book budget is unlimited, but it doesn’t get extra ooohs and aaaaahs from burning them all. It’s a different medium. It has different payoffs.

      You really D&D would have Dany go “mad” and burn Kings Landing down without GRRM telling them this is what he has planned. Prior to this season 1 I was someone who thought the ending would completely different than GRRM ending, and I still think much of it is but something as drastic as what we saw today with Dany I don’t see D&D doing on there own.

        Quote  Reply

    243. Ten Bears,

      When Sandor put his hand around the back of Arya’s head as he spoke to her, it was such a fatherly gesture. That was a wonderful scene for the two of them, fitting as the last scene together. Sigh…..

        Quote  Reply

    244. ash:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      the little lady wants a pony? (sandor to arya back ages ago) And it was white? I dunno, she had lots of plot armor tonight, may as well have a horse.

      She’s had lots of plot armor since Season 6, but this season has been a bit much. She is one of my top 3 favs, but yeah. It’s been a bit much.

        Quote  Reply

    245. JSchmeh:
      I know it sounds like I am in the minority, but I thought it was great.

      Perhaps in the minority, but not alone. I thought it was great too. I loved the Arya and Sandor goodbye scene, and I’m glad she gave up on killing Cersei and went to escape and try to help others too. She might still get to kill a queen, just not the one she expected.

        Quote  Reply

    246. Tony:
      Ashara D,

      Totally agree with this excellent insight.

      Also, Arya putting aside her vengeance for once saved her life.

      Ah! So true. But what will break the endless wheel? Where is the “sweet” with the bitter? I can’t wait for next week.

        Quote  Reply

    247. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      Honestly, I’m with you almost point for point here. I can kinda get Dany going and expect the books will do that much better, there just wasn’t time to effectively set that up in 5ish episodes. But the rest, especially Jamie disappoint me. Also, Tyrion continues to be a shell of the intelligent character he once was. What happened to “we are going to need your intelligence?”. Why when you just burn everything? I respect him for continuing to try with Jamie and to save people, but when the other characters all just ignore him…why does the show bother?

        Quote  Reply

    248. I think there was some horrible poetic symmetry in this episode.

      The Mad King threatened to burn the city down…. and Jamie saved the city by killing a king. All this time, we thought Cersei was the Mad Queen. But it was Dany, the Mad King’s daughter, who burns it all down, while Jamie dies beneath the Red Keep, trying to save the queen.

      Maybe twisted logic, but I don’t see Jon on the Iron Throne after this, not after what he’s seen. I think Dany either is killed next episode but Jon refuses it and goes North…or Dany ends up on the Throne and the end is that the wheel she came to break spins again because SHE does it. SHE doesn’t break the wheel – she kills thousands to claim the throne…sowing the seeds for an eventual rebellion against her, that will start another cycle, with another set of names.

      That would be bleak, but somehow this episode changed my thoughts on if Jon would actually take the throne.

        Quote  Reply

    249. So where did Drogon come from? When Varys is being brought down to Dany, they show a wide shot outside and Drogon is nowhere to be found. He must magically appeared. Without making any noise at that.

        Quote  Reply

    250. Gator5000e:
      Isn’t this the prophecy she saw in the House of the Undying? Kings Landing burned out with the ash falling all around the Iron Throne (even thought I thought it could have been snow at the time)?

      Yep, sure is… and that scene was back in S2 or 3. Just goes to show how back all this was planned? i.e. the destruction of the Red Keep. Same as the dragon flying over Kings Landing in Bran’s vision when he first ‘plugged into’ the Weirwood Net and saw many events.

        Quote  Reply

    251. Ginevra,

      If Episode 3 is the problem, why is Episode 4 almost 2 full points lower than Episode 3? And why was the controversy over Episode 3 not nearly the hype that Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken took? Like not even 10% of the outrage over the Sansa rape was given to Episode 3.

      Because the hatred towards the show after episode 3 was not immediate. The episode rating benefits from the overall perception of the show still being very positive prior to airing and it got lots of 10 votes immediately after airing. In other words, it was not yet trendy to hate the show. That was something that grew throughout the week after the episode aired as those voices grew louder and louder and dominated the social media chatter. More and more then jumped on the hate the show bandwagon. That is why “The Long Night” originally had a rating well over 9 on IMDB but then collapsed as the week went on. No GoT IMDB rating has ever collapsed after its original rating more than “The Long Night”.

      There is no way episode 4 would get such an extremely low rating if not for the fanbase opinion on the show dramatically shifting after the airing of episode 3. If you participle in the fandom you should have been clearly able to see this shift.

        Quote  Reply

    252. Black Raven,

      Then Bran is a bit of an ass. He has seen this and couldn’t tell Jon?! Seriously.

      I do think that the scene he’s seen must have been something in the past though. Wasn’t it established that in the show he cannot see the future? Am I misremembering?

        Quote  Reply

    253. I believe I’m safe in assuming that no one who died tonight will have an open casket funeral.

        Quote  Reply

    254. Adrianacandle:
      Goddammit. Finally Jon says ‘I love you’ to Daenerys, something I’ve been longing for as I did with Ygritte, only for it to not be enough to overcome the incest barrier. It’s not enough to get Jon over the incest hump and it’s not enough to console Dany. And in the episode where Dany totally goes off the deep end, wholly and completely and I need a walk.

      I… no more tears left.

      I was hoping that they’d talk about how they are family. That Jon is family… 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    255. Mr Derp:
      And to think, all of this could’ve been avoided if Jon had sex with Dany during the scene prior.Dany just needed to get laid.

      Yeah, I agree 🙂 Ah, congrats btw on your early comment about Cersei and Jaime dying together. You were spot on with that guess albeit I didn’t expect them to crushed under falling masonery!

        Quote  Reply

    256. Exactly. Not all, but you never know who will go mad or not. Jon’s heritage suddenly became a liability in my eyes. Maybe Tormund is right and he’s got the North in him, the real North to such an extent that cancels out whatever streak of Targaryen madness may hypothetically possess him. And maybe not having a dragon is also helpful. But it’s a 50% chance at this point for me.

      I’m fully prepared for him to die in the finale. But rejecting the throne and going north to reunite with Ghost and Tormund would be the happy ending for him. I’d like to see it. He’ll be fighting their wars, why? Fuck it!

      Though not what I wanted to see happen, I was riveted by this episode. It was horrible and suspenseful and incredible. I am sorry many felt this show is ruined. I believe tonight was a continuation of the theme of powerful people on the verge of victory, on the verge of realizing their destiny, and the lengths they will go to realize it and the weak and innocent people they end up destroying on the way, only to sow the seeds of their own destruction. Stannis burns Shireen and the troops leave him, Ramsey plays with the Starks and WunWun only to be defeated, Robb believes the rules don’t apply to him as to marriage and is too rigid with the Karstarks and is betrayed at the Red Wedding and so on. In Dany’s case, her actions after the bells rang make sense given that she was so devastated and angry and that she had just told Jon that she would rule by fear since she believed she would never be loved by the people of Westeros. Well, fear is now instilled, Kings Landing is destroyed, and all those innocents were murdered. But Jon Snow, who would have been the key to Dany’s acceptance as Queen, is a Stark in the image of Ned and cannot let this stand. Nor should he.

      Best comment of the night!

        Quote  Reply

    257. A very dignified death for Cersei; chaperoned by the one person in her life who loved her, who risked everything to display decency and compassion to her.

      Arya. The kindest thing was said to her by the Hound which allowed her to survive. The looks on the Arya’s face as she made her way through to the white horse were some of the most haunting war trauma images I’ve ever seen on film.

      The Hound. A beautiful, brave leap into the fire to put an end to the evil which possessed his brother, the Mountain, from the beginning but was turned into an undying, monstrous force by Qyburn – who (fittingly) is casually killed by the Mountain immediately when a strategic disagreement arises.

      Varys. A very dignified execution by Drogon. Wise words exchanged with Tryion who admitted that it was he who turned Varys in for treason. The expression of honorable intentions to the last from Varys.

      Harry Strickland. The Golden Company proved to be complete amateurs when confronted with what was left of the Dothraki, the Unsullied and the northern armies.
      Harry Strickland crawled away in retreat at the end on his knees only to be cut down.

      Dany & Drogon. Masterful tactics employed by Dany & Drogon to avoid scorpion bolts with oblique low angle attack runs. The Iron Fleet was the first to be destroyed. Then the scorpion bolt launchers on the battlements fell prey to the same tactics. A through pounding. Then the bells set off Dany even though she’d agreed to hold mass destruction on signal. All her pain and rage of what she and her comrades had endured consumed her. A terrible sight to behold as Dany gave into her worst instincts and forgot her mission in life to preserve the lives of innocents and free them from their shackles.

      Jon Snow & the Crowd. Jon Snow and the crowd are devastated by the slaughter being perpetrated by Dany’s army. Shot more briskly than Arya’s more painful, haunting scenes.

      Jon Snow & Dany. Jon Snow swears fealty to Dany as his Queen. She comes near him and kisses him romantically, asking Jon whether his feelings are just about loyalty to the Queen or whether there is something else (i.e. his romantic passion for her). He doesn’t say. He is worried about the possibility of wide scale slaughter of innocents.

      Dany’s Gotta a Bad Publicity Problem. Jon and a whole lotta people are upset by the slaughter. Her fitness to rule is undeniably open to question.

      Trailer for Final Episode. Ends with a scene of Sansa (fully in control) regally approaching and marching through the ranks of what appears to be an army and/or assemblage of assorted high born fancy lads and ladies.

      Wishing and Hoping – Jon and Dany. Jon and Dany move to the far north and Dany leaves her regal ambitions behind in order to have a life together with Jon. They can move in next door to the Wildings and engage with them in endearing situation comedy moments. Hilarity will ensue.

      Wishing and Hoping – Sansa, Tryion, Brienne, Ser Davos. Sansa makes a good Queen and makes a suitable match with a new Dornish prince that is nice, considerate, clever, useful and believes in the Montessori Method. Tryion is Hand. Ser Davos is Master of Coin and puts the Kingdom into the black. Brienne is appointed Leader of the Kings Guard and substitutes her unrequited love with duty and honor.

      Wishing and Hoping – Arya. She shows up at Storms Landing and tells Gendry that she is who she is and won’t ever change, but if that is ok with him she wants to have tons of babies with him.

      Wishing and Hoping – Greyworm. He returns to Naath to live out his days in honor of Missandri’s virtues.

      Wishing and Hoping – Hot Pie. He establishes the first chain restaurant in Westeros.

      Wishing and Hoping – Sam and Gilly. He becomes a maester through a correspondence course and establishes the first health care facility at Castle Black open to all Wildings who have moved back north of the Wall and those left living sourt of the Wall. Tons of children. Gilly opens a Hot Pie franchise and has an affair with a sympathetic, bumbling, lonely Hot Pie, but Sam and Gilly patch it up. No hard feelings.

      Wishing and Hoping – Bran. Because he knows everything that’s ever happened, is happening and will happen, and actually cares about people he inspires a large majority to return to the worship of the Old Gods learned from the Children of the Forest. He initiates folk singing at services and establishes regular inter-faith services.

      Wishing and Hoping – Bronn: He accepts a small, stylish castle with a pretty wife who bosses him around artfully, but is somehow able to communicate with him and bring out his better qualities. He becomes a Dad and does a fair job at it. Names his first two sons: Jaime and Tryion. Never kills anybody again or even feels like it.

      Wishing and Hoping – Pod. He gets knighted by Sansa or Brienne, becomes a lord and does a good job at being a family man and manager of his estates.

      Wishing and Hoping – Iron Bank. They make a strategic corporate move to switch to small business and consumer financing and usher in a new wave of prosperity in both Essos and Westeros.

      Wishing and Hoping – Faceless Men. Realizing that their religion is fraught with inherent, internal contradictions and that little shits like the Waif only pretend to be selflessly serving the faith, they stop being Murder, Inc. and open a chain of spas focusing on meditation, yoga, hot oil massage, chanting, nature walks, 19th Century English Romantic poetry, and vegan cookery.

      Wishing and Hoping – Wildings. They become conservators of the land north of the Wall and establish a tourist industry that allows Westeros to explore and see the North as it was meant to be seen. Saunas. Bathing in warm, geyser fed lakes. All fresh, locally sourced food. Tormund becomes the leader of the industry and undertakes regular speaking engagements in the South to promote the industry.

      Wishing and Hoping – Yara and the Ironborn. They establish the first merchant marine offering container shipping and a cruise ship line famous for its lack of e. coli outbreaks. Yara becomes a symbol for lesbians and trauma recovery.

      Wishing and Hoping. Unsullied. They invest heavily in the chain of spas established by the Faceless Men and each of them become wealthy, really cool, and relaxed.

      Wishing and Hoping. Dothraki. They give up raiding and make a future for themselves in establishing a modern insurance industry, which though focused initially on personal lines cart insurance, branches out quickly to begin offering multi-line commercial coverage supported by state of the art risk management services.

      Wishing and Hoping. Ghost. He gets reunited with Jon and Dany, grows comfortably old, farts surreptitiously by the fire on cold nights, and pretends Jon did it.

        Quote  Reply

    258. The PROOF that D&D knew all along how this was going to end, probably from GRRM –

      Bran’s vision of the dragon over King’s Landing
      The HotU visions – the “snow” in the throne room was ash

      The fault you can definitely find is Dany’s madness not seeming “earned”, that the troubling signs were maybe too few and far between. Certainly the book lends itself to that better with internal monologues.

      Yes, with more time we could’ve seen more of a descent to this point. But given the time constraints they decided on, I think they went with a fairly plausible alternative: she has this tendency in her, the signs were there, but the grief and anger and loneliness and rage just all snapped her.

      I think that way is more problematic, but I don’t think you can argue this isn’t what GRRM intended. This was clearly in the long plan.

        Quote  Reply

    259. Lundy: You beat me to it. Yea, I thought it right away, AND the Pale Mare. One of the things Quaithe warned Dany about was the pale mare. In the books, anyway.

      Added the “and” above to correct my meaning.

        Quote  Reply

    260. I’m thinking Dany kills Jon next ep, and all those she felt betrayed her; Jon, Tyrion… who else? Dany has all the power. How could Jon take her out?
      I hope Arya doesn’t make her presence known to Dany. I don’t think she would.

        Quote  Reply

    261. Sam: I was hoping that they’d talk about how they are family. That Jon is family… 🙁

      Yeah 🙁 And even that is tragic because the feelings between them aren’t familial. It’s such a no-win situation: Jon just can’t get past the incest while Dany can and needs him to, but he can’t, and… yeah. Two worlds that can never come together again.

        Quote  Reply

    262. Arya trying to drag that scared little girl out of the city reminded me so much of Yoren dragging Arya, then a scared little girl, out back in season 1.
      That made me feel emotional…more than Jaime (a character I adore) dying…I knew he would die 100%, but just not like that.

        Quote  Reply

    263. Dany was right in destroying Kings Landing, with all the terrible rulers, that includes Tru…er…Robert, they never overthrew them. Missandei was right in damning them all, she noticed the people’s behavior toward her as a prisoner and realized even being so called free they were as bad as the Mereneese. I have a feeling Arya’s going to kill Dany and Jon will have to kill her. Then he’ll head to the real north leaving 7 independent kingdoms in the wake of the last war (for now).

        Quote  Reply

    264. ash:
      howtathor,

      thats not the term I would use. What in the hell did Qyburn make? it was almost comical – he pulls a sword out of his body out of this brain

      Yep, that big fucker The Mountain just wouldn’t die, huh! Getting a broad sword through the guts would have been enough and then with a dagger through his head he was still alive and kicking. I rolled up at the scene. Its just fucking crazy 😀
      Perhaps Qyburn did some more research on that wight body which was brought back to Kings Landing last season! But perhaps those strikes Sandor inflicked on him didn’t do the ‘bizzo’ because they were not made of dragon glass or Valyrian steel?

        Quote  Reply

    265. At least the episode was forgettable🤭

      My belief is completely unsuspended. When the mute snow sorcerer’s unsaid demands are more believable than the motivations of characters from season 1…well you get that episode. And apparently winter never came to QL.

      The show has broken its own rules around dragons, ships, battle, and travel so many times it’s comical. And the nerve for a completely undeserved ham fight between Captain Hook and Peter Pan without a Hot Pie or Nym sighting in the Riverlands.

      This show was beautiful for its memorable but small characters. Not because extras got torched to prove humans suck. Every villain on this show has an arc of one dimensionality prior to death that is just grating.

      There’s no stakes on this show anymore. Daeny burns the entire city, unlocks wildfire upgrades, and still doesn’t kill a single credited character? What’s that subvert?

      And Tyrion. My word, what an imbecile. He gets his “best friend” killed for like no reason. In fact, he should be killed as an accomplice in the show’s logic but instead get’s a green mushroom and immediately frees Jaime? And lives to the next morning?

      And the Unsullied raped? Like was that what Daenerys meant when gave GW the secret signal. Don’t think Unsullied rape? Watch the BtE and hear from the two horses of the apocalypse…of people who can’t read enough to act.

      It’s nice to know that Bran has a plan. Good thing he and Jon shared in that plan. Is Bran trying to get Jon killed too?

      At this point, I am looking for a miracle comeback from team trees, wolves, and frozen macguffins.

      And where’s my coin. We will have our do! Lol, don’t take my word for it, read a book.

      One stone crumbles and another takes its place and the temple holds its form for a thousand years or more. And that’s what the Iron Bank is, a temple. We all live in its shadow and almost none of us know it. You can’t run from them, you can’t cheat them, you can’t sway them with excuses. If you owe them money and you don’t want to crumble yourself, you pay it back.

      -TYWIN LANNISTER

        Quote  Reply

    266. Ginevra,

      I can see why you’d see Dany as being pure fire. Jon being raised as a Stark and with a Stark mother may be a bit more of Ice but in reality Rhaegar actually picked the fiery Stark of the lot, the wild one.

      I personally think the prophecies have faded away in the background tbh as far as the show is concerned. At least the ones that were mentioned. As a result Jon has been sort of a Red Herring already considering he was set up as a personal opponent to the NK (I’m looking at Hardhome and Beyond the Wall faceoffs) and the build up ended in Arya ending the Long Night that was falling. I’m sure Martin having such a focus on these prophecies and visions and magic will have a different approach.

      I suppose we will see how much of a difference is there when the last word is published. I expect quite a bit though more than likely not all of it.

        Quote  Reply

    267. I enjoyed some of the smaller moments such as Jaime and Tyrion’s last scene as well as Arya and the Hound’s, and Cersei strolling discreetly past Ser Gregor and Sandor was hilarious. Otherwise, the falling masonry and debris, the fire blasts, it all got very repetitive and boring.

      Wish Jon had had more of a role in this episode, but I’m pretty much over expecting a great conclusion for this once beloved character. Jamie was my other fave, sadly his character development/growth got hijacked for plot here and not even a good one – Jamie and Cersei’s deaths were very underwhelming.

      A mixed bag of an episode for me, but entertaining enough. Emilia’s acting in the first half of the episode was really good. Daenerys is not ‘mad’, just in pain.

        Quote  Reply

    268. ThisGirlHasNoName:

      I was disappointed that Jon wasn’t a more prominent figure in this episode. I did feel that his misgivings were real, but he still felt like a second-class character.

      The only plot that I loved about this episode was Sandor and Arya.

      Aside from that, I thought the cinematography was outstanding and the music was perfect.

      I was riveted by this episode. I’m leaning on the positive side mainly because Arya survived all that. I know others would complain about her very thick plot armor but if she died in this episode by being burned as she’s running scared, I’d surely be devastated (and would hate that ending).

      Something bothered me that I couldn’t figure out until your note re Jon. I agree. He’s insignificant in this episode, and has been mostly that for the past episodes. All he is now is the “rightful Targaryen heir”, whom people will seem to use for their own good. I’m still waiting for a big moment for this character but it looks like all he’ll do in the end is retire and brood some more in the real north (if the speculations in the comment sections here become true).

        Quote  Reply

    269. TormundsWoman:
      Black Raven,

      Then Bran is a bit of an ass. He has seen this and couldn’t tell Jon?!Seriously.

      I do think that the scene he’s seen must have been something in the past though. Wasn’t it established that in the show he cannot see the future? Am I misremembering?

      You are misremembering. He sees two visions of the future. The first being the wildfire exploding under the Sept of Valor and the second being Drogon over KL. The throne room covered in ash wasn’t his vision. It was hers from the House of the Undying.

        Quote  Reply

    270. Catspaw Assassin:
      Team Stark: “Soooo, how does one go about offing a huge dragon?”

      You probably need a half-Targaryen that the dragon trusts to walk up and stick a sword in its eye. But where is a Stark going to find somebody like that?

        Quote  Reply

    271. I’m still struggling to process the episode, but this must be said:
      I [email protected]&king love Arya! What an episode for her!

      “Sandor. Thank you.”

      And she helps people trying to escape King’s Landing. And that final shot of her riding out on the horse — gorgeous!

      Lots more thoughts (particularly in regards to Jaime), but I need to let things sit for a bit. 🙂

        Quote