No ifs, ands, or buts about it, there are some truly heinous things going on in America right now. There are two things upon which we can all (hopefully) agree:
- Nazis – we hate these guys.
- Game of Thrones is the only thing that will unite the realm, and lead us through the long night, guarding the realms of men.
Naturally you started smiling again because you read over Oz’s wonderfully eye-opening recap, and reveled in his hatred of all things Lord ‘Dirtball.’ And while Sue was taking a break, you thought you’d check in on my recap.
But let’s be real – you came here because you don’t have time to read 600 other reviews. Never fear – I live for this stuff. Here we go…
Alan Sepinwall, UPROXX – In which he is relieved that more and more characters are returning to the promise of the first scene of the TV show, and finally taking the White Walkers seriously.
Alex Mullane, Digital Spy – In which he notes that much of the episode is devoted to people on the fringes of power grappling with how to effect change within those who are in power.
Alicia Lutes, Nerdist – In which she is positive that she has conclusively determined the three dragonriders.
Alyssa Rosenberg, The Washington Post – In which she highlights the ‘coalition politics’ of the men who are venturing out beyond The Wall, all divided in class, faith, and experience, but are able to coalesce into a uniform political alliance unified by a shared goal.
Andrew Snell, Mirror – In which he calls into question Daenerys’ steady potential descent into the madness of her father.
Bennett Madison, Vanity Fair – In which he comes up with a very helpful reminder for distinguishing between Gendry and Podrick Payne that in no way, shape, or form refers to Podrick’s overlarge member.
Brandon Nowalk, AV Club – In which he identifies the different style of story (i.e. Blockbuster drama) on which the season has taken life.
Dave Gonzales, Thrillist – In which he walks us through Littlefinger’s careful plotting episode by episode that led his to getting the upper hand this time.
David Crow, Den of Geek – In which he labels Lord Randyll Tarly a straight up racist.
David Malitz, The Washington Post – In which he lambasts Samwell Tarly for failing to give Ser Jorah Mormont a haircut to go with that greyscale cure.
James Hibberd, Entertainment Weekly – In which he is excited to see the first time an actor’s tweet made it into the script. (Even better – The actor tweeted again earlier today).
Jen Chaney, Vulture – In which she outlines three potential reasons Cersei could be lying to Jaime about her pregnancy.
Joanna Robinson, Vanity Fair – In which she gives us Easter Eggs, tiny details, analyses…everything, really.
Josh Wigler, Hollywood Reporter – In which he lays out the enormous expectations this prelude of an episode has laid out for next week’s penultimate installment, which as we all know, is traditionally the biggest episode of the season.
Kaitlin Thomas, TV Guide – In which she predicts Cersei’s pregnancy will be her downfall, explains why Gendry is the hero Gotham Westeros deserves, and questions why Bran is such a dick.
Kaitlyn Tiffany, The Verge – In which she rates the sexual tension of Daenerys and Jon at an all-time high.
Kim Renfro – Business Insider – In which she shares many smaller insights into spots that we, the viewers, may have overlooked.
Laura Hudson, WIRED – In which calls out the characters’ (or writers’) obsession with ‘dadliness,’ commenting that while women are largely the power-holders at this point in the show, the characters are a little too obsessed with the images of their fathers for their own good.
Laura Stone, Hey Don’t Judge Me – In which she very importantly references how powerful it can be when sci-fi and fantasy is relevant to the time in which its published (or even potential future generations).
Lauren Sarner, Inverse – In which she uses the power of insight to make us plebs feel stupid that we didn’t catch all those things.
Melanie McFarland, Salon – In which she reminds us that Peter Dinklage has always proven himself to be one of the strongest actors on the show…and we can’t help but collectively nod our heads in uniform agreement.
Mike Bloom, Salon – In which the leading headline of Westeros World News (™) is ‘Stark and Stalk: Sister Suspicious as She Sneaks (Supposedly) Surreptitiously.’
Myles McNutt, The A.V. Club – In which he details the way that the piece-setting nature of the show that once befell slower episodes has changed, and now it is all in service of a shared, larger climax rather than a bunch of tinier, unjoined tidbits.
Neil Miller, Film School Rejects – In which he covers the history of Jon’s birth as we so far know it.
Nina Shen Rastogi, Vulture – In which she refers to this episode as both an angry sitcom in which all your boyfriends gather in Eastwatch Castle, and a ‘grab baggy’ telenovela in which many ‘revelation bombs’ are dropped.
Rob Bricken, io9 – In which he comes out with it and states that he is not happy about the direction the show is taking.
Sean T. Collins, Rolling Stone – In which he comments on the ’emotionally and mentally taxing episode.’
TK, Pajiba – In which he praises Iain Glen and I am forever happy because don’t mess with Iain Glen so help me gods.
Tom Huddleston, The Guardian – In which he packs three film comparisons into one sentence.
Other than mine, which you’ve already printed out and framed on your bedroom wall, whose reviews did you love/hate, with all due respect of course, and as always?
Hodor! And Jon reunion lol
Azor Gilly!
Complaining is coming.
Has there been any confirmation for the title of next week’s episode?
I’m usually pretty positive about the show, but based on reviews, I’m more negative than most concerning this episode. Some strong moments, but several times there were beautiful character moments that were either cut short or weren’t shown, and instead we had to move along to exposition so that the last two rod could be properly set up. Jon’s reaction to the news about Arya & Bran, Tyrion’s convo with Jaime, Davis referring to tyrion’s murder of his son…these all needed more time, imo, and were cut short.
I think it was particularly egregious for Jorah to arrive, have no meaningful dialogue with Dany, and then leave again. I don’t care about the pacing of the travelling in the show, but the material with Jorah felt rushed for narrative, rather than logisitical, reasons.
Also (and I know this is nitpicky) but it’s too bad there was no more Jon/Theon material. I think there is so much to mine there. I mean, imagine Theon’s natural curiosity about Jon being KotN, and learning that Ramsay is dead? Would love to see Alfie play that. Oh well.
All the problems of this episode are squarely at the feet of the bad/ TV sitcom style directing and the terrible writing. Despite that there were still some good things.
If the show ends badly at least it might motivate Martin to end the series right.
Cersei’s incest baby is the Valonquar. Maybe he’ll (Joffrey/Myrcella/Tommen’s little brother) be stillborn and come out a wight. Cersei will die in childbirth just like her mom, or wight baby will choke the life out of her.
So when Dany burned Tarlys it’s okay? Because they were white?
I can’t believe this. Should all people be friends? That’s how I see how world should go. Not be happy when white people burns.
Can you give an example of the “bad/TV sitcom style directing” and what the alternative might look like?
This is sincere request, I know nothing about this stuff and don’t recognize it (also wondered what Sue meant by “clean directorial style” – I think those were her words – in her E4 recap.)
There are so many comments about directing and directors on this site, I would love to see, in the wait for S8, another GoT50 [67] of sorts from experts that analyze directing choices and styles (vs good/bad writing)
Hodor Targaryen,
I agree. I prefer the fast-paced aspect compared to the meandering of the last couple of seasons, but now I feel like they’re cramming stuff in to get the show done (since my guess is D&D are anxious to move on to their next series and jump into the political fray).
Still loved the episode and think it’s the best series ever to grace our TVs, but I wish the fast pace hadn’t been so noticeable.
spacechampion,
I was thinking similar. The lady who told her fortune when she was a young girl told her she would die at the hands of her brother. The baby is also her sibling as well as her child. Maybe cersei and the baby will die
Hodor Targaryen,
Very fair. I too was seeking more emotional content but still felt satisfied overall by the end of the episode.
Elizabethe,
TV/sitcom style directing? How?
Off topic: I was wandering what is the point of having Gendry back at this stage, and I read somewhere that House Baratheon was founded by a Targaryen bastard, so technically Gendry is the third person to have (at least a drop of) Targaryen/dragon blood, so that makes him a potential dragonrider. How does that sound to you?
Alan the Tall,
Blood of my blood.
I liked Jeremy Egner in the NY Times – sorry I can’t post a link.
On Cersei’s pregnancy, a hot topic in reviews:
She could of course be lying to manipulate Jaime, but from a story perspective, I think it is more likely that she is not.
I think, with the cyclical, things coming back nature of the series, what is likely to happen with the pregnancy will echo what happened with Dany’s. The life of her baby will be take to buy life for another.
awol,
Could Valonquar prophecy be dying whilst giving birth to your brothers child?
And another thing that will repeat:
The Red Wedding/Sept explosion.
Not because there will be a wedding, but because Cersei will murder her guests to whom she had guaranteed safety. If she doesn’t know about Dany surviving fire she will probably use wildfire again, but if she knows I am interested to learn how she will atempt to murder all of her rivals (Jon and Dany) without wildfire.
I doubt this.
IMO the baby will die, and she will live to feel the loss of it. What would really twist the knife is if the life that gets “bought” for the life of her baby via blood magic is Tyrion’s.
The valonqar thing is most impactful if it doesn’t get distorted. There would be narative logic in either one of her actual brothers actually murdering her.
Alan the Tall,
Contrary to some wikipedia pages, the episode title has not been confirmed as “Death is the Enemy”. Though it may well be the title.
spacechampion,
The problem as it stand right now for many including myself is that we just don’t care about Cercei anymore. It feels like she’s stagnant, uninteresting, and as if the “Valonquar prophecy” is of no consequence to the overall story anyways.
ygritte,
…until she kills a bunch of people you do care about to make herself relevant again. It is what she does, so expect it.
I hate kneejerk bullshit like what Rob Bricken’s written here. It seems every goddamn season there’s a weaker episode where people will suddenly decide the entire season is bad, regardless of what they already said.
Let’s see Bricken’s progression shall we?
Episode 1 = “Solid setup”
Episode 2 – “Finally the endgame begins,lots of things happening, pretty good”
Episode 3 – “Pretty good but a bit perfunctory, maybe a bit rushed”
Episode 4 – “Oh man, brilliant episode, perfect pacing”
Episode 5 – “The episode is shit the season is shit fuck D&D never mind all the positive things I said”
He says “Sam just finished a six-episode internship to cure Jorah and clean shit. What a great use of everybody’s time.” Which is total bullshit and he knows it, considering the Rhaegar reveal this episode too. And it wouldn’t matter if Arya was doing some perfect sneaking because LF would know she stole the letter anyway, it doesn’t change shit.
Why isn’t possible for people to just say that it was a weak and clunky episode? Why is it always a sign of doom and enormous show destroying failure? Especially coming off an all time great episode. Well I guess I know the answer: extremity gets those clicks.
I rather enjoy the episodes being more fast paced, but I wish there was more dialogue between people meeting up again after so much time apart. I feel there was so much potential in bringing together Tyrion, Jaime, Jon, Theon, Jorah, Dany Those were potential moments that are now lost. Also, Jon and Danys budding relationship isn’t wowing me . I mean no offense to the many real die hard fans who were waiting years for this, but that is how I feel. I guess I am comparing their growing bond with earlier seasons where other relationships grew over time, and especially with season 7 focusing so heavily on making sure Jon spends most of the season so far with her. I wonder sometimes if you take away all the magic and outward beauty they both have, and instead you are left with just 2 human beings building a relationship over time, what would that be like? Since mature relationships are based on more than physical attraction, beautiful scenery, the forbidden, amazing dragons and so on. But I guess they have to move really quick now in the show. Also, war a time when emotions run high, people aren’t always thinking clearly, and people thinking they are going to die, and that also adds to the whole thing, I guess. As opposed to peace time. Also, I know that Tyrion knows Cersei quite well. That being said, and knowing she blew up the sept and all her enemies last season, how could he suggest everyone meeting with her on Kings Landing? Cersei is like a ticking time bomb to me now. Also, she is once again holding Jaime to her with this pregnancy. I am also quite worried about this mission. There are thousands of undead and how many men are searching for a wight? I am looking forward to this episode and I am sure it will be very exciting to watch.
ygritte,
I also get irritated each time I see her-I have even grown tired of Lena Headey’s monotone evil queen act (thoyghthis is not entirely her fault).
Littlefinger’s arc has also become tiresome…hopefully not for long!
You do not care enough about him as a character and his past transgressions seem meaningless now. Totally ambivalent now.
Would have been better if Olenna had implicated him as a co-conspirator to Jamie to add some ‘juice’ to his plot line?
Sou,
Arguably the best actress in the show and I never thought I’d get tired of watching Cercei, but she ‘s like one note now, just not interesting without others around to play off of like her kids, Tyrion, father, or other palace intrigue going on.
LOL
Every comment in this thread is a complaint.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface, spot on my friend 🙂 lol
Great Post –
Writer Dave Hill didn’t pay attention to what happened in the spoils of war… it would so easy to add few sentences in a few scenes
I don’t think Cercei talked to Jamie about gold or food at all.
Daenerys wasn’t concerned about food.
Tyrion wasn’t worried or concerned about Jamie’s health at all in Eastwatch. Tryion could of said “I saw you fighting on the battlefield and I didn’t know you even alive… how are you doing”?
When Jon Snow was greeting and helping Drogon be calm… Daenerys could of said “Looks like Drogon likes you Jon, Drogon was seriously wounded at the battle we were in but he is feeling better now.” or something like that.
There is not enough lighter charter building scenes any more. It’s all just story drama story drama
I Ike’s the vanity fair recap. EXCept the bit about the dozen of Pod’s member. I doubt very much that’s what made the whores like it so much. Common misconception.
Man, so many complaints. I’m sure we would all love to see those small character interactions, I quite loved those small talks we used to have seasons past. People ripping in the directors and the writers, lets remember they are the ones who gave us Arya with Tywin and Arya with the Hound (two non book stuff that were amazing) among other great additions.
I don’t think D&D are rushing this so they can get to their next show. I think they want to finish the show because they are aware its at the end game and do not want to stretch it out.
Lets remember, the longer it goes, the more these actors will want to get paid. When the show started they weren’t making too much, now I’m pretty sure the main cast is making millions per ep. Not to mention the cost of the show itself, advertising, etc. I’m sure HBO might say they would of loved to keep this show on the air, but I remember when they said that about Rome before cutting down a 3rd season of that because the show got too expensive.
There are a few missing stuff that could of been added easily as people have said above at little cost I’m sure, like another Jon Theon scene, but say they throw that 5min scene in one of the previous episodes. If I think back to all the previous eps this season, I can’t recall one scene that wasn’t needed. I do wish the last two seasons were full 10 eps or even 8 and I’m sure we could of gotten those small scenes thrown in…but they decided against it.
Years ago on this site people used to complain about too much useless filler content. Now we all want it. Can’t please everyone, just enjoy the ride we are at the end now!
And as for GRRM finishing the books right, well…I hope so. One thing I do love about books is we get way more insight into what characters are thinking and feeling. And I’m sure we will at least get Winds of Winter – but the last book, if he’s having this much trouble finishing the 2nd last book how hard will it be for him to write the end game?
Mawk,
There are those small character interactions even in this season, but some people want more. It is ok, but I don’t think that in the past seasons we got every character interaction that we needed.
I think some people act like this show just starts over again with each new season. This is the end, this is E9 of the whole show. Everythnig was leading to this.
People were waiting for the ending for so long that they can’t realize that it’s here.
Not a bad theory at all. For quite a while, I’ve had a hard time deciding which antagonist would be great enough to make Cersei’s inevitable death scene “feel right” and justified – and I can’t find any! She is in a league of her own as far as evil goes…So what better way to end her life, than by the consequences of her own actions, hence becoming her own greatest adversary?!
* First of all, she’s not exactly in her reproductive prime anymore, so the risk of a miscarriage is per definition greater.
* In terms of her incestual relation to Jamie well…they’ve beaten the odds three times, so it wouldn’t be hard to imaging a misshapen fetus of incest causing her a horribly bloody death (like Lyanna) – especially befitting in light of her lifetime of mocking/hating on Tyrion.
* And third: the Valonqhar theory would be fullfilled… Just not by her own littlebrother, but Joffrey’s, Myrcella’s and Tommen’s!
On a sidenote: Just watched the Cersei prophecy scene with Maggy the Witch and only now realised, the actress Jodhi May was the littlesister Alice Munro in Last of the Mohicans (one of my all-time favorites) 🙂
firstone
Agree with this. The rest of the season is fine. It’s one clunky episode.
Sansa said 2,000 Vale soldiers? They have 45K. What’s that about? Are they trying to minimize the Vale dramatically for the show?
Swept under the rug of the many other problems in this episode, they kind of ruined Dany’s arc with Jorah. Their little hi and bye was not how I expected their next meeting would be. This is one of the more epic relationships that has gone on since the very beginning of the show and I wonder if they’re going to flub it badly by having Jorah die behind the Wall. Jorah’s or Dany’s death should be tied in with each other. Their goodbye was one of the more touching scenes last season, one that actually made me feel something. Now them reversing course on Jorah’s greyscale and having a quick little meet and greet with Dany just seems like they’re going to fuck it up.
I don’t think the valonqar thing will happen in the show at all. They completely left it out of Maggie’s prophesy. My personal guess is that Jaime will kill Cersei with Widow’s Wail.
It’s getting to be a little ridiculous that HBO won’t even release the title/synopsis of the episode coming in the SAME WEEK.
I get that they’re salty about the hacks but cmon, that’s one group of a-holes. Releasing the title is clearly not going to diminish viewership at this point.
I don’t see Jorah dying beyond the wall immediately after recovering. Makes no sense. If anything he’ll die next year protecting Dany.
Jon’s obviously fine. Hound still has story left. Gendry too. Don’t see them bringing him back just to kill him off right away.
Tormund is up in the air but I think he’s ok.
Beric and/or Thoros are most likely casualties. Somebody has to get Beric’s sword.
Wasn’t there a cold open for this? I don’t remember what season, but I remember seeing a young Cersei with her friend at some point visiting Maggie.
Ryan,
Probably tomorrow, with the weekly pictures.
I remember last year we got slower and character oriened episodes (E6-E8) and people complained that those were filler episodes, that great scenes at Horn Hill and Riverrun were just filler and those episodes had the lowest ratings on IMDB last year.
I don’t think his sword is anything special.
Ryan,
The title for episode 6 in my tv guide currently says “Episode 66”.
Obviously that won’t be the title but it’s kind of strange that it’s listed that way. Usually, there’s no episode title listed at all until the official one comes out, but my tv guide currently shows the title as “Episode 66”.
Here’s the thing about this episode that really confused and bothered me – this plan to kidnap a wight for Cersei really makes no sense to me. At this point I’m not sure if they just didn’t explain it well enough, if it’s just a stupid plan or if it’s really bad writing. What do they hope to accomplish by risking their lives to get a wight? Showing it to Cersei will suddenly make her rational and she’ll give up her evil ways to save mankind? Certainly Tyrion would know better but he’s the one that came up with the plan! Really don’t get it. Can someone help me understand?
Mawk:
Exactly that, I agree! I'm one of those who are happy with the faster pace on things, as they provide just enough time for every plot to unfold and that is a difficult thing to do. Secondly the faster pace works nicely as an emotional build up too, with all that danger approaching from the Wall, Westeros tearing itself apart and those ominous winter clouds gathering above the Living. I really enjoy this season, every aspect of it! Thumbs up to the writing team from me – and to all the actors too, they manage to load every second with emotion and make it count. 🙂
Cersei’s Brain,
I wish I could, but I can’t. I think a lot of people are a bit confused as to why the wight hunt is a good idea.
I think Jon is open to doing it because he’s desperate to prove that the threat is real, so I get Jon’s side, but from Tyrion’s perspective, it’s not exactly the most intelligent idea to think that Cersei can be reasoned with.
Cersei’s Brain,
I think its more for Dany, Dany won’t go North to help as she thinks Cersei would swoop in and take the castles Dany leaves behind (which she probably would). If they can show Cersei (and whatever Lords are left following her) then maybe, just maybe, they all might band together. If not band together, maybe just a temporary armistice, which Cersei says she wants as I don’t think the Lannisters have any troops left outside of the City Watch in KL.
For Jon’s part, he’s trying to get everyone to understand that “yesterdays wars don’t matter”, there is a common enemy of all mankind. Really all the Night King had to do was hide out for a few more years, have some chilled wine, the two Queens tear each other apart and he could stroll right on through since its Winter and all the armies are down to minimal forces.
Mr Derp,
Yep, that’s how they have been listing it on TV guide/HBO.co until a title is provided.
Cersei’s Brain,
To add to what I previously said,
It’s the plan simply because they don’t have a better one.
Dany cannot take King’s Landing unless they destroy the city or Cersei surrenders.
Tyrion is desperate to avoid destroying King’s Landing, so I would have to assume he came up with the wight hunt idea because there is no other way that they can convince Cersei to surrender, or at the very least, agree to a temporary ceasefire.
Mawk,
Ok – at least this is an explanation. If they weren’t rushing through this season maybe they could have at least discussed some other ideas before going with this one – still makes NO sense why Tyrion would come up with it. Other than the writers wanted him to meet with Jaime (that was a good scene)…
New rating high! 🙂
https://headlineplanet.com/home/2017/08/15/ratings-hbos-game-thrones-climbs-another-series-high/
I have no problem with the wight hunt other than the quickness with which it became the solution. Theres a dead army closing in and they need solutions, quickly. Cersei doesn’t even believe things her brother tells her – why would she believe anything her enemies do without proof?
If they HADN’T done this, people would be saying “They should just get a wight and show it to King’s Landing as proof – simple”.
It’s basically a last ditch effort to get Cersei to be productive and worry about something much bigger than her. There’s no other way they could have done it – drastic measures were needed.
Cersei’s Brain,
Scene was not written very well, but D&D said in Inside the episode that the wight is there for everyone to convince, not only Cersei.
I remember last week people were saying Shakman is a genius for the Spoils of War and deserves an Emmy; this week he’s apparently a hack sitcom director. It was obvious that Eastwatch would be an episode dealing with the aftermath of the FoF 2.0 (I’m not calling it the loot train) as well as setting us up for the last two episodes of the season. I think the biggest issue is that reunions and introductions didn’t match what people have built up in their minds. My guess is that fans will come around once the season or series is complete. I also think people are forgetting that the in-universe characters don’t have the knowledge that we the audience do.
Kind of annoying, actually, even insulting. People so ready to believe that women in general and sex professionals in particular would just roll over just because of a big dick.
Ryan,
Tormund is a goner too. I could see them taking out Jorah after that little meet and greet with Dany. That was a real bad move. I agree on Gendry, though they were quick to excise characters they brought back last season very quickly. Though he still has some reconciliation with Arya.
The episode showed that it was a mistake to differ from some crucial book story lines, i.e. Jaime who hates Cersei in the books or the North (I still hate Arya the Freykiller, stupid TV fan service – posing for Lord Walder a whole fortnight eh?) or the Tyrells (weak roses, no Garland etc), I didn’t care much for Dorne though… And Euron should have been much more book Euron (from looks to assets like the dragon horn – would have been a much bigger threat)
They left many characters and things out, now the main cast has only left the most obvious ways of dealing with each other…
As much as I like the avengers vibe from team Eastwatch, I hate to see some of them die a bland death in the snow..
(for example, I hope Lord Bolton doesn’t die in the books like he did in the show)
Tywin’s Ghost,
Let’s not forget that this episode has 9,1 on IMDB. I didn’t match what some people had in mind, but majority is happy.
Cersei’s Brain,
The wight isn’t only for Cersei. Jon states directly to Tormund that it’s for both queens. While Dany has accepted that the WWs and the army of the dead are real, she still sees Cersei as the bigger threat. Also, Tyrion hasn’t interacted with Cersei for some time now. He hasn’t seen the Cersei that claimed Tommen betrayed her, and threatened Jamie not to betray her again. As far as Tyrion knows, while Cersei is undeniably ruthless, he believes she’ll do what’s in her best interest which is to fight against the WWs. Jamie is the only person who really knows how tenuous her grasp on sanity is and he’s in denial.
Mind boggling to me that they didn’t see Sam leaving with Heartsbane and the Jon/Dany/Two brothers continuity error is really sloppy.
Mr Derp,
There is no title for episode 6 because the show has been cancelled due to minor issues in story telling, dragon head sizes, and lack of playbyplay on characters
Jack Bauer 24,
You keep saying it’s a “continuity error” in every thread. This has been addressed ad nauseum in the last 2 days, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up.
Jon KNEW 2 brothers were dead.
He ASSUMED Bran was dead, but did not KNOW he was dead, so he wasn’t included in the two brothers line.
Do you get it?
Dee Stark,
🙂
HBO has just announced that due to Jack Bauer 24’s constant misunderstandings of the show, they will be cancelling Game of Thrones immediately.
Mr Derp,
LOLOL
DAMN IT CHLOE
edit: you will only get that if you’ve watched “24” haha
How can you grow tired of Lena Headey? , shes wonderful and love how she plays Cersei, the only thing i don´t like is that Headey not have won a emmy yet , the show should be so glad that Headey is a part of it , i so enjoy Headey´s scenes Cersei is such a intresting character , a character you not grow tired of following , Hear Me Roar .
Jack Bauer 24,
Jesus this guy really needs to step away from the computer.
Dee Stark,
This is probably the only time in my life that I regret not seeing the show 😉
So Gendry is supposed to be laying low, but he has a Warhammer with the Baratheon stag antlers? Makes no sense.
Mr Derp,
LOL awwwww too bad
Wouldve been super funny
Jack Bauer 24,
It’s not like Baratheon was a king not long ago.
Tywin’s Ghost,
Ok – I just think this was not up to the usual standard of writing. Very confusing & it still feels pretty contrived so that there is an excuse to have this group face the WWs. I will let it go because I suspect the next ep will be awesome.
Mr Derp,
Some people don’t actually understand what the phrases “continuity error” and “plot hole” mean. They continue to make the same mistake even after it is explained to them multiple times. I can only assume that they think that spouting these phrases legitimises their complaints; instead it makes their point worthless as they obviously don’t know exactly what they talking about.
Cersei’s Brain,
It is frustrating because the plan makes sense, but they didn’t do enough to sell that. Characters agreed too easily at that meeting at Dragonstone.
Jack Bauer 24,
Davos wants Gendry to lay low. But Gendry doesn’t want that, that’s why he immidiately told Jon that he was king Robert’s bastard son.
Knight of the Walkers,
I enjoy your avatar. I officially want glow-in-the-dark White Walkers on the show now. Or at least black-light-sensitive ones.
Jack Bauer 24,
You may have a point if Gendry was marching through the streets with his war hammer for all to see on Robert Baratheon Appreciation Day. But as the show cut that segment along with Jorah’s explanation to Jon on their voyage to Eastwatch the in depth details of how Sam Tarly cured him of greyscale, we’ll in the dark forever.
They did. Cersei explicitly mentioned that they have the Tyrell gold, and that she wants to use it buy mercenaries. And Jaime mentioned that the dragons burned all of the wagons, which we learned in last week’s episode were carrying the harvest from the Reach.
Jack Bauer 24,
Sam has Heartsbane with him when he leaves the Citadel. If you look closely at the scene, or at the BTS photos, you can clearly see that he has it with him. The camera just didn’t focus on it, because that was not the dramatic focus of the scene.
Sam isn’t staying in the Citadel. He’s staying at a tavern in Oldtown. The Maesters have no reasons to post guards on a lowly novice. Of course he slipped away.
And the Jon’s comment about his brothers is NOT a continuity error. At all. Sam told Jon that Bran was alive and that he let him through the Wall in S4 E4 “Oathkeeper”. And Sansa learned that Theon didn’t kill Bran and Rickon in S5 E8″Hardhome”, information that she later relayed to Jon in S6E4 “Book of the Stranger”. But as Sam told the maesters in this week’s episode, Bran – a crippled boy – went beyond the Wall years ago, and he didn’t return to the realm until recently. The idea that he could survive such an ordeal is rightly considered highly unlikely.
Jon knows that Robb died. That’s one brother confirmed dead. Jon saw Rickon die – that’s two brothers confirmed dead. But Jon doesn’t know that Bran is dead. He never knew that. He simply assumed it, much as everyone assumed that Arya was dead after disappearing from King’s Landing, because the idea that a teenage girl could survive for years on her own in Westeros is also considered far-fetched. Jon hasn’t been watching the show. He doesn’t know what we know, so he drew his own conclusions based on circumstantial evidence. Now, he knows the truth.
There is no plot hole, and no continuity error.
Good grief I come here to get away from all the political nonsense, this is like the “Brexit shambles” thing again
The whole “call everyone a Nazi” thing is getting quite old and preventing proper public discourse about important economic and societal issues
Not only that but if you marginalise white people by simplistically blaming them for everything when they are copping the economic rot in America just as much as anyone else then things won’t end well,
or rather they will end much worse then they are set to be thanks to the excesses of the far-left in destroying State economies and getting people sacked from Google for stupid reasons.
And let’s not get started on the BS narrative and editorial bias coming out of the dying Mainstream media, if people take that seriously they are not helping themselves long term
Don’t seem to recall self-righteousness coming from the contributors of this site when BLM are trashing Charlotte or ANTIFA trash Hamburg either or Google sacking people for stupid reasons
But I do agree that GoT unites everyone
Personally I really enjoyed the episode, don’t really get the Arya hate, this is all consistent with their Season 1 relationship from Arya flicking food at her at the Feast table onwards and she is right to play the game of faces with her to probe Sansa’s intentions, eg she was always the “Beauty” of Winterfell, not necassarily staunchly pro-Northern at heart and it would hurt her pride to have the “bastard of Winterfell” whom her mother despised put above her
Sansa is a mirror for Cersei in a sense, she is thinking more of Cersei than WW’s and Cersei is thinking more about power than WW’s given they’ve been in KL most of the series, Dany is inbetween
Ultimately though things go back to the Ned speech in S1 and in the S7 trailer about the pack survives etc
Tywin’s Ghost,
LOL!
Jack Bauer 24,
Cirsei is a Baratheon by marriage and in the opening credits there is still a stag over KL!
If you want a avatar how should you do then ?
In terms of the fast-pace, not bothered, people need to remember Cat getting to KL real quick in both AGoT and season 1…
Would have been good to have Gendry in earlier, eg at the very least to add to Dragonglass smithing discussions but I guess wasn’t possible
Criticism with regards to lack of continuity and structure are fair but I have to ask: Is it reasonable to expect a story abiding to these conditions on a visual medium? For one thing, you got different directors and different writers for different episodes meaning there are bound to be slight deviations. Then, there is the question of what makes for good tv. Drama and suspense are a necessity also, alongside logic and structure. Its a fine juggling act.
Episode 6 beat the record viewership of Episode 5 apparently. Showbuzz reports a 10.72 million tuned in. Whew.
Mammoth success.
Cersei’s Brain,
I don’t think it’s any more contrived than Mel throwing the letter from the NW that Davos brings to Stannis into the flames and is oh yeah the Lord of Light totally wants you to go to the Wall now, all that other stuff we’ve done like kill your brother is inconsequential.
RoaringLion,
I’m not really sure. I haven’t though about adding an avatar much. If I ever do add one it’ll probably be a pic of me. I prefer seeing people’s real faces over fake ones, but everyone’s different and I enjoy variety.
I was being serious about the avatar btw. I truly enjoy Knight of the Walker’s av. I took your post to assume I was being sarcastic?
That’s a bad mistake. The Lannister sigil should be over KL now.
Shaz,
Considering episode 6 hasn’t even aired yet, that’s pretty impressive 😉
Mr Derp,
hahahahahhaha
one person’s “small character moment” is another person’s filler. one persons “good pacing” is another person’s “feels rushed.”
what do you people want? i am amazed and frustrated at the the backseat writing that constantly occurs here, people writing and rewriting scripts without salary, reshooting scenes in their own head without an actual job title, usually with some dash of condescension here and pinch of narcissism there, oversimplifying decisions the show runners have made as if they arbirtrarily made those decisions with no concern over the thousands of other factors that contribute to those decisions. this show was never going to last 10 seasons, so sacrifices are likely to be made. i get it.
one of the reasons i stopped posting and reading the message boards in the first place is because of the malignant negativity, except i am conflicted because this is the BEST site to come and read about what people think.
don’t get me wrong, there is always room for healthy criticism, for example, i can’t figure out why arya didn’t disguise herself when she was so painfully obviously spying on littlefinger, and sometimes these questions need to be asked, but there is a difference between critique and complaint, what is the point of complaining just for the sake of complaining? no one who actually has a job title gives a damn.
i am invested in this show and it’s characters as much as anyone else, but jeesh get over your rage about a made up world with made up characters.
I do not think that your post was sarcastic my friend , i only asked because i want a avatar , i think you know what picture i would choose .
Tywin’s Ghost,
Agreed. LOL
RoaringLion,
Apparently my sarcasm meter is not fully functioning today.
Lol, yes, obviously it’s the Tyrells’ golden rose. Duh!
Which is nonsense. Burn the Red Keep, killing Cersei and her minions, and the rest of the city will surrender without a fight.
Or burn some of the fortifications, or the ships in the harbour.
Or send soldiers to infiltrate the Red Keep, which Tyrion does by himself in this very episode.
It should not take much to force the Lannister garrison to surrender the city even if Cersei was still alive. Hell, they’ve even got a line of communication with Bronn, who you’d think would be good at setting that up.
After Tyiron’s clever plans for the Greyjoy’s to sail their ships all the way to Dorne and for the Unsullied to sail all the way to take Castley Rock and after Daenerys called Tyrion out for his clever plans that were disasters…
Why would everyone at Dragonstone agree to Tyrion’s clever idea to bring a live wight to Cercei… Tyrion didn’t even have to sell it… Everyone was just great … let’s go.
Jorah Mormont just gets back to the love of his life Queen Khaleesi and he volunteers to go beyond the wall to serve Daenerys?
Tyrion is correct Jorah should be right by Daenery’s side advising and protecting her.
I am sure there is a good reason for the 7 fearless season 7 warriors to go face to face with the WW – I just hope it’s a better reason than bringing a live wight back to Daenerys and Cercei.
The vast majority of the time, I love that so many people watch Game of Thrones on a weekly basis, and that the conversation about the most recent episode continues throughout the week. It’s one of the things that makes each season so vibrant and so fun, and one of the main reasons that the show has become such a phenomenon. But the one of the downsides to it is that whenever there’s a slower or less overtly spectacular episode, a certain cadre of naysayers crops up to whine about the show dragging its heels or, even more obnoxiously and erroneously, “going off the rails”. I remember last year’s stretch from E6 to E8 well. It got so annoying that I actually tapped out of the conversation for a week between E7 and E8 (although that was also because I needed a break from all the wildly nonsensical Arya conspiracy theories that were floating around). Then, “Battle of the Bastards” came around, and most of the people making those complaints ate their words.
Every worthwhile show in television history needs slower, character-based episodes and episodes that move pieces into place for a greater payoff later. Most viewers understand this. But one of the burdens that comes with being the biggest show in the world with a reputation for incredibly dramatic and stunning moments is that some people expect fireworks every single damn week, and those people are usually goldfish. You take away their shiny action sequences for an episode or two, and they forget that they ever existed, or that they’ll ever come back. This is a problem that Better Call Saul – a great, very slow-paced show that I love but which draws one-tenth the media coverage that GOT does at best – does not have, mostly because the audience is more self-selecting. People who can’t handle a slower episode or two on those shows don’t flee to the Internet to vent – they just stop watching altogether. It’s a blessing and a curse.
But on a more positive note … I must say that I’ve been extremely pleased with the reception that this episode has received in general. As ever, it’s usually the loudest outlying voices that draw the most attention, while the more measured, carefully-considered opinions that more closely reflect the consensus go unappreciated. I’ll continue to stick with the Sean T. Collins and Alyssa Rosenbergs of the world, and let the chaff (like that laughably terrible io9 review) blow away in the wind.
Sean C.,
Yeah, I suppose Cersei will just wait there to be burnt. /s
There are many hidden tunnels beneath the city.
Sean C.,
I actually somewhat agree with this.
Dany should take a page out of Sherman’s March to the Sea from the American Civil War. “Total warfare” is a great way to demoralize support for the war. It’s not about killing, but it is about destruction. I think this would happen whether there’s a “total warfare” approach or a more passive aggressive siege tactic, so I would be in favor of the less drawn out way to end it.
mau,
Sherman’s “total war” tactic would erode the common people’s support for the war, so Dany might not even have to specifically invade the red Keep. The citizens could do it for her.
Though, once they find out that there’s still a cache of wildfire in the city….all bets are off.
mau,
Every scene we’ve seen with Cersei has featured her in the Red Keep.
Fly in at night, no warning, and nuke it.
Even if she somehow survived this, it would take the heart out of the garrison, and most likely prompt them to surrender the city.
Storm’s End and Highgarden yielded during the initial war of conquest in much the same manner.
Ghost’s Lunch,
Dude just stop with the what abouts. The what abouts BLM and what about white economic insecurity isn’t going to excuse the fact that a white supremacist killed someone and maimed several others in Charlottesville. I’m not sure when denouncing white supremacy, white nationalism, the KKK along with Nazis and those who spout those beliefs became self-righteous, but that’s not a good look on you.
It’s quite popular – and often fairly accurate – to say that “everyone’s a critic.” Perhaps, for modern television audiences, that saying should be updated to “everyone’s a screenwriter”. And a director. And a producer. And a showrunner. And of course, they all have multiple Emmys on their mantle as recognition from their peers for their contributions to the cinematic arts.
Suffice it to say that I’m very happy that I’m not watching their Armchair Quarterback version of Game of Thrones. I’d have tapped out long ago.
Mr Derp,
Well I suppose there is no time for that because the WW are near the Eastwatch.
I mean, D&D had a choice, made Dany more cautious or made the last season anticlimactic with just good guys agianst the WW.
Lol yeah sure , i think you know what house that owns a lion a golden lion ….
Sean C.,
I am not saying that killing Cersei is a bad idea, but its clear that Tyrion is doing everything in his power to protect Jaime.
mau,
Exactly. The wight hunt could have made sense, had it been presented differently.
First of all, the showrunners failed to sell urgency. In Ep1 Jon said that the NK was marching on EW and then the Hound had a vision that the NK was marching on EW and now Bran has written exactly the same: the NK is marching on EW. Had he written that the NK was seen X days from the Eastwatch and moving forwards, there would have been a reason for urgent actions and discontent of the Northern lords as well. Secondly, there was no need for stealth negotiations: Cersei (Euron) had some of the Dany’s vassals, and Dany got some of Cersei’s vassals, hence exchang of the captives should have been negotiated even if with no result. And then it would have made sense if Cersei herself asked for the proof of the walking dead: she was in a dire need of armistice; she would have been interested in putting Jon into danger etc. But from what we get the main evet of the season looks absolutely forced and that’s really upsetting. Let’s hope next episode will provide us some pay-off.
mau,
Thank you. That Rob Bricken article was ridiculous. Similar to that article, right here in the comments, fans keep saying, “they had time to do this, they had time to do that”. No. No, they don’t. There is no more time. There are only 8 episodes left in the entire series. It’s time that fans come to terms with that. This is the countdown to the end.
Jared,
Nothing can please everyone. Simple, but true.
RoaringLion,
Oh right right right right right, I know that one! House Cockshaw?
Im not so sure that Jaime is so fond off Tyrion right now though .
Here’s an idea… The King of the North returns to Winterfell… everybody is happy. Jon and Arya have a great reunion. Jon finds out about Arya’s list and Arya tells Jon what she has been doing for the past couple of years. Jon says great let me see your list… Jon says “Hey I don’t like Cersie … and you know what Sansa doesn’t like Cercei Lannister either. Arya you should go to King’s Landing kill somebody to get access to the hand of the Queen… Kill the Hand of the Queen and then Kill Cersie… Turn into Cersie and surrender the seven Kingdoms to a Great Council.”
I know this isn’t a good idea because the show would be over too quick.
Have a good day Watchers on the Wall!!!!
Janr,
Just a correction: the baby will not be Cersei’s sibling, it will be her niece or nephew (since it’s her brother’s child). If she had a baby with Tywin it would be her sibling.
LOL , yeah thats the house , im sure they are one of the biggest houses and would own a golden lion and loves the song ” Rains of Castamere”
A few thoughts from reading through everyone’s comments. I think Shakman was outstanding. I wasn’t sure what to expect since he mainly is known for comedies. His decision to film the Loot Train Battle from Jaime’s perspective made me feel what Jaime felt as he saw his Lannister comrades burned alive. When have I ever felt sorry for the Lannisters? Never until Shakman put me in Jaime’s shoes. Eastwatch’s lighting and camera angle decisions were effective. Just one example was Arya and LF’s lurking in the shadows and perspective shots.
Ghost’s Lunch pointed out that Arya was playing the Game of Faces with Sansa. I read some folks who thought she was a mind reader now and that wasn’t believable. She was definitely trained the hard way at getting good at the Game of Faces. I think it’s very much in character that she could pick up on Sansa’s truths. I’m hoping next episode Arya doesn’t fall for LF’s tricks. I have faith that she will be able to see the truth.
I would have suggested that in the first scene Jaime shouldn’t have had his armor on. It would have made me think that Bronn was able to remove is armor underwater somehow and that’s how he could swim up. It’s funny that with things like Dragons flying, I’m worried about the reality of how Jaime swims with armor, but I think it could have been an easy change to have Jaime without his armor and add a little to the believably. Even so, I really didn’t think Jaime would be captured again. There just wasn’t enough time left in the story. But the armor is really my only complaint, because I have been totally locked to my screen this season and I just don’t want it to end with only two weeks left. The scope of these scenes may never been shown on TV again. I’ve never seen anything like this done as well in film let alone TV.
Inga,
I mean that scene needed to be longer. Dany should ask Jon why shouldn’t she just take KL now and the Westeros would be united. And the answer could be that the army of the dead is only 2 weeks from Eastwatch, they don’t have time for the siege. And Dany should ask then we should burn the Red Keep, and Tyrion would say there could be scorpions on the walls now, they saw it can hurt a dragon, and that they’re hidden tunnels beneath the city, so when the attack starts Cersei could just hide and they would be forced to burn the whole city in order to find her. (his hidden motive:protect Jaime)
And the biggest point Tyrion could make is that they are struggling to make Dany popular in Westeros, but if they call every lord in Westeros at that meeting and they show them what is coming, Dany could be seen as the savior of the world, because she would promise them that will save them from the WW. So it could help her in her ambition to take the Iron Throne.
They just needed characters to discuss every option.
RoaringLion,
Oh, you meant House Codd, the greatest of all Westerosi Houses.
Jared,
I stand corrected.. cheers!
Yeah they for sure loves ” Rains Of Castamere” and owns a castle named Casterly Rock *Laughing*
RoaringLion,
It’s actually kind of funny reading about House Codd.
Their motto is: “Though All Men Do Despise Us”
Hmmmm, sounds promising! Where do I sign up?!?
Mr Derp,
The guy is an idiot! Things are explained and it still doesn’t sink in!
mau,
Keeping Cersei in power through arbitrary and contrived means doesn’t make for good drama, and makes the other characters look dumb.
Like, if we’re supposed to think that Tyrion is making specious arguments that cost thousands of lives solely because he doesn’t want to kill Jaime, then he’s a traitor and Dany should BBQ him and get on with winning the war and saving the world the most efficient way possible.
For you.
Lol , sorry that i haven´t heard of them , they must be truly lovely , with that motto im not that supriesed that i haven´t heard of them .
Do they always pay there debts , because the House i like do so .
mau,
Yes, for me, because I like narratives that don’t require you to accept ridiculous notions like the idea that there’s nothing Dany can do short of destroying KL to depose Cersei, even as this episode shows Tyrion waltzing into the Red Keep on his own with ease, and Dany’s dragons have in the past been used for precision destruction all the time.
Sean C.,
I mean it’s a struggle for writers. How to keep your show from turning into zombies vs humans at the end? To have the WW break the Wall during the war of Cersei and Dany? Then there is no need to convince anyone.
But when they come everything else will stop in the story and until the last episode there will be no time to resolve complicated relationships between characters and that is the heart of this story.
So you have to create a situation where many personal issues are resolved before the WW invasion. I think in the first episode of the next season there will be meeting of almost everyone at WF, when Jon will find out who his parents are and everything between characters will be resolved. Only other personal, character moment that would be left to resolve before the epilogue will be Cersei and Jaime’s final confrontation.
It’s a hard task to find a solution for this since original writer obviously isn’t able to do that in 25 years.
RoaringLion,
No, I believe their other mottoes are: “We skip out on the bill”, and “A Codd always creates debts”.
Hmmm, back to the drawing board.
Looks like nobody gave you a serious answer 🙂 …you make your gravatar here: https://en.gravatar.com/
Dany wants the Red Keep. She doesn’t want to nuke it.
Sean C.,
My longs posts are disappearing for some reason. But my point was that the writers of this show are forced to find a solution that GRRM didn’t find in 25 years. Yes, it is a struggle to stop this story from turning into only zombies vs humans in the last season. This is their solution. If you don’t like it, fine.
mau,
I got pulled over by the spam police too
Mr Derp,
I had 2 great posts LOL Shame shame shame
mau,
I guess everyone’s a critic
I’ve read much about pacing, inconsistencies and missed dialogue opportunities in both reviews and this site. But I’ve not (to my knowledge) seen anything about a truly egregious (to my mind) mistep that deserves to be called out – the fact that Jaime actually goes with Bronn to supposedly “train” (meets Tyrion) BEFORE checking in with Cersie about what he just went through, and saw, and how a large part of her army and supplies were destroyed. I’m sorry but some things are just ridiculous no matter the need for speed and plot movement.
It seems not , so i thank you my friend .
They also s**t gold i asume ?
The Valonqhar-part was left out of HBO-Maggy the Witch’s prophecy. She only told Cersei about who she’d marry and the children.
Inga,
I don’t think there is any type of code or honor system in Westeros where you exchange captives for captives.
That went out the window when Joff cut off Ned Starks head.
But if they were to exchange captives, I don’t think they even have any do they? Cersei kills her enemies, Dany is burning them.
They could of presented the Wight Hunt better, but I can’t see how they could of in the time frame of the episode they had. Wasn’t it already almost 60min? Not sure which scene you would remove to fit that extra content in.
In regards to people saying Arya is stupid, has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, this is all part of the Stark kids’ plan? “Chaos is a ladder” – Bran I’m pretty sure knows everything LF has done and is doing. I don’t think LF is aware Bran can creep better than Arya and him combined.
Bran – the ultimate creep. You looked real pretty when you held a knife to my fathers throat.
RoaringLion,
Your welcome, bud. Make it a good one!
I should my friend 😉
Hahaha…The two of you just made an otherwise shitty Tuesday a lot better!!!! 😀 😀 THANK YOU!
RoaringLion,
Ya know, I was thinking that maybe you should skip the whole golden lion, Rains of Castamere, and “pays his debts” nonsense and just go with a Lannister lion instead of whoever that other House is.
Dead Dane Walking,
Trying to make the world less shitty one derp at a time my friend.
Mr Derp,
And that’s the way to go about it! Pad yourself on the shoulder – You guys did good today 😀
Jaime met with Cersei before he met with Tyrion.
Jack Bauer 24,
I wonder sometimes if I’m watching the same show as other people.
I have a friend say to me the other day that he can’t wait for Jon and Gendry to find out they are brothers. I didn’t know how to respond, so I smiled and said me too.
Ok, you gave me 0.6 sec of confusion there
Got it! 😉 Just last week, I was actually thinking about watching the last couple of “24”-seasons after GoT goes into hiatus again (in just 12 days!! ). Do you know if they’re worth it?
You know that ” nonsense” you speaking of was because of you , if you had only
written House Lannister my friend i wouln´t written that , and do you know a house that owns a golden lion like the Lannisters do ?
BranTheBlessed,
Exactly. And in a perfect world they would have had time to shoot 10 episodes on the same scale as theyve shot 7. Honestly it seems like by time its really 8 episodes but your point is basically the answer. Some just dont like it.
RoaringLion,
Lol, this is the point where I make sure you understand that I’m being 100% sarcastic, but I’m pretty sure you do.
Obviously, you’re talking about the Golden Lion hardware company in Europe.
But isn’t Cersei queen as Robert Baratheon’s widow and Tommen Baratheon’s mom?
firstone,
Too bad noone is aware of Murder Queen’s abilities!
Oh, we are all pretty aware… but you have to admit that there are 8 episodes left because the showrunners set the number at 8. They could have just as easily set the number at 10, and then maybe we would have time for a couple of more scenes that feel lacking.
Still, 8 it is, so let’s see what lies ahead!
The audience doesnt need to be reminded of things we clearly saw in the last episode. I get what you’re saying, but sometimes those things are redundant.
Dead Dane Walking,
Haha Yay!! 🙂
Dead Dane Walking,
Honestly.. its a fun exciting light show to watch… and you will always want to know what happens in the next episode. Have you seen ANY of the seasons?
Mawk,
LOOOOOL
Dee Stark,
Light yes!…and the thought of not being addicted to a fansite, where i’ll have to dig my way through endless negative nitpicking is kindda liberating 😂
Oh you bet I have! Just missed out on the last two seasons.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Okay I am here to enlighten… never to annoy…
I’ll try my best not to be redundant anymore…
peace
I do , i played along , of course you did know what house i was speaking of , and played a little game , so did i with you , and wrote those things that is a part of the Lannisters songs , mottos so on , i enjoyed it , as sure as i am that you did to my friend .
No but of Westeros , Hear them Roar .
So this plan to capture a Wight, didn’t they basically do this in season 2? Alliser Thorne went to King’s Landing with a hand and it rotted along the way. It was Tyrion himself (as hand) who didn’t believe the story. Have Jon and Tyrion forgotten this failed attempt? Why is it going to work this time? Have I missed something?
Jennipeg,
I think the wight hand rotted because the wight was dead, like dead-dead at that point, so it simply rotted on the long treck to KL. I’m not 100% sure though. Im sure someone else knows the details more than I do.
Some of you might think I didn’t find anything about Eastwatch that I liked… so now I am going to surprise you and let you know what I did like about Eastwatch
I liked the foreshadowing alot!!!
I liked when Cersie asked what are you going to do about Bronn? Bronn could be in some serious danger from Queen Cercei
I liked how Cercei looked when she said to Jamie… “What did our Brother have to say”? Is Tyrion really Cersei/Jamie’s brother?
I liked when Tyrion mentioned attacking the Lannister heart Casterley Rock and mentioning (their father?) Tywin Lannister… Either Jamie or Tyrion has to be a bastard.
I liked how Ser Davos Seaworth said he is not a fighter and talked about someone being a coward for a day… Ser Davos Seaworth could be the surprise hero in the battle beyond the wall. There’s has be some reason Ser Davos is part of that group.
There is alot to like about Eastwatch as most of you have testified without reservation… I just hope the dragonglass somehow gets in the hands of the Lords of the North so they can make weapons.
Thanks for being kind and allowing me to share my thoughts. WotW
Janr,
How is the baby her sibling? It’s her child and her nephew or niece.
awol,
Do we think Jon is fireproof after his resurrection? He wasn’t before – he burned his hand killing a wight at Castle Black. You just gave me an image of a naked Dany and a naked Jon emerging from a wildfire explosion, lol.
firstone,
And this is what I didn’t like:
-Jaime’s miraculous escape
-Gilly randomly reading about Reggar’s an-nuhl-ment. So that was common knowledge? Or do the maesters write books noone reads?
-Who would go out in a snowstorm without a hat??
Other than that, I am fine and SO ready for the next episode?
Mr Derp,
Thats possible, maybe the Night King switched it off? It can’t have been weather/distance from the wall, because it wouldn’t work this time round either.
It would have been nice if Tyrion had cut in with ‘uh…. didn’t you try this before and I completely dismissed you’. It would have been a nice callback to season 2, unless they don’t want us to remember?
No. She keeps going on about building the Lannister legacy and they’re the only ones left and she doesn’t care if people openly see her with Jaime. She isn’t holding on to the Baratheon name at all.
Dead Dane Walking,
Love these ideas – karma is a bitch!
Well, I for one did not remember. At all. Thanks for reminding us guys.
Sou,
Is that a good thing? Sorry if it isn’t!
Ryan,
Maybe Jorah will be the wight they bring back, and Drogon has to fry him to put him out of his misery? That would make the White Walker situation hit home to Dany like nothing else could. She’d hop on the next dragon to the Wall ASAP.
Why would she when shes a Lannister of Casterly Rock?
That was a dead Wight. They are capturing a live one to bring this time.
Exactly. That’s what I was telling Sou.
Say what..? Davos isn’t part of the 7-man group going North of The Wall..?! It’s Jon, Jorah, Gendry, Thoros, Beric, The Hound and Thormund
Redx,
Yes but when Qyburn crowned her, he named her as Cersei Lannister. There should be a lion sigil there.
Robert Baratheon mean´t as much for Cersei as Jaime did to Catelyn Stark , thats my thought .
Did this happen on the show? As far as I can recall, this only happened in the books. Alliser Thorne never went to KL on the show, I think.
Jennipeg,
Sou,
I’m also pretty sure the hand thing was only in the books. I don’t think it was in the show.
Boom, g.o.w. beat me to it
Jeor Mormont sends him to KL with the Wight hand in S1.
ghost of winterfell,
Yeah, its actually season 1
Jeor mentions it in this scene, at about 1m.30s
Yep, like I said: at the moment I can’t think of any other befitting way to say “bye-bye Cersei”, than her self-inflicted karma via horrible death by birth!! …but D&D has never seized to amaze me, so let’s see 🙂 I.e. never saw that new pregnancy coming (even if it’s another lie).
Jennipeg,
That was never followed up with a conclusion of what happened though, so we have to fill in the rest with what happened in the books I guess.
Still bizarre that Jon hasn’t mentioned Aemon to Dany.
Jack Bauer 24,
There’s still time for that
ghost of winterfell,
It did happen. In S1E9 “Baelor”, Jeor Mormont tells Jon that he sent Ser Alliser Thorne to King’s Landing with the severed hand from Othor, the wight that tried to kill him in his chambers. He says that he ordered Thorne to “lay it at the feet of this boy king. That should get Joffrey’s attention”. (Ah, Mormont. You didn’t know who you were dealing with). As an added bonus, the mission “put a thousand leagues between [Jon] and Thorne.”
We never saw Thorne in King’s Landing because Owen Teale was not able to return for Season 2, so the writers devised a replacement scene in which Cersei, Tyrion, and the Small Council discuss a letter from the Wall instead (and everyone but Tyrion dismisses the threat). But in universe, Thorne’s mission still happened. He went down to King’s Landing with the wight hand, but by the time he got there the hand had rotted away and stopped moving. So everyone was thoroughly unimpressed, and no one took him seriously. He may not have even gotten an audience.
Jared,
I think he had an audience, but Tyrion didn’t like him during his time at the Wall, so I think Tyrion made Thorne wait so long that the hand rotted to the point of being useless. I could definitely be wrong about that though since I really didn’t read much of the books.
Jared,
Thanks, for a second I thought i’d confused the show with the books, I do that quite often!
Dead Dane Walking,
watch them!!
Jack Bauer 24,
I think that they’re saving the Aemon conversation for a more personal moment between Jon and Dany. It will have more of an impact that way, both for the characters and the audience. The discussion of a deceased great-uncle that Dany never knew isn’t relevant to their current, world-altering political dynamics. They’ve been focused on other things, and they’ve found enough common ground already.
mau,
Yes, your scenario could have worked too.
Mawk,
Exchanging captives is not about code or honor – it’s a purely pragmatic. Yes, Cersei refused to exchange Sansa for Jaime in S2 and probably she couldn’t be counted on exchanging Yara for Tarlys but negotiations should have been initiated nonetheless, because that was a normal practice of medieval warfare. OK, I get that the showrunners had to exterminate Randyl and Dickon Tarly to open way to Sam and to give Dany some fifty shades of grey. But everything was written in such a way, that she looked almost as clumsy as Theon beheding Rodric. If Dany had to incinerate the Tarlys plotwise, well – Randyl had betrayed his liege lady, and she had every right and duty to punish him for that, but then she shouldn’t have offered him to bend the knee. There was the crime and there had to be the punishment and no respect to traitors or treasons. If Dickon stepped in for his father the decision would have still looked controversial and the required effect would have been achieved. And it’s not a problem that Dany is breaking bad, the problem is that she is going out of caracter. She doesn’t care about her captured allies at least one of which is still alive, she does not seek vengeance for the dead ones: that’s not Dany we saw in S4-5 – she had her dragon moments then but they were motivated and justified by the provocations of her foes. And on the other hand, if the showrunners imply that power has corrupted her, her interactions with Jon this episode make no sense: if she is in me-me-me mode, she can’t be OK with him leaving to Eastwatch without her permission. And if the scenes with Jaime and Tarlys were moved to the Spoils of War where they belonged, this espisode could have had 5 extra minutes for more consistent interactions. I get that the writers are struggling and that they work under insane time pressure, but still Dany and Jon are primary protagonists and it’s really annoying when their story fails to go fluently.
The rest was pretty much OK. I had no problem with Arya because she was set up as a teenager making rushed decisions without a second thought. IMO both Arya and Bran struggle with the same problem: both of them acquired magical skills but both of them still have to learn how to apply them practically, and that’s where Sansa comes in. Though regarding Sansa I was surprised that she actually took her parents’ bedroom: the Winds of Winter made me to believe she didn’t but I guess misleading the viewers is a manner of storytelling and I can accept that. I had several other issues like “Where is Theon?” or why Sansa and Bran didn’t bother to send reinforcements to Eastwatch etc. But in general the episode was much more consistent than 99% of TV shows and movies I have seen in recent years, so rant over. With all the flaws GoT is still the best and re-writing the scripts in the head is just an extra fun.
Another confusing moment – sorry if someone already brought up. When Jon receives news that Bran and Arya have returned to WF, he says that he had thought they were dead. Didn’t Sansa/Brienne tell him that they were alive the last they had heard? Or did Jon mean that at one point, he thought they were dead. Really poorly explained in context of show. I really did enjoy a lot of this ep, but the table map meeting just was not clearly written. (Also I have to say – I hate the Sansa-Arya drama. Just hoping that they are leading LF on)
I’m not sure how I feel about the Arya/Sansa drama, but I think they both had a point last episode.
Sansa is correct that she needs to be diplomatic with the other Northern Lords. Chopping off heads is not the way to convince people to work together.
Arya is correct that Sansa shouldn’t sit there and listen to the Northern Lords talk shit about the KITN while he’s away. Like I said above, diplomacy is necessary, but not when the king is being disrespected like that. Sansa just told them how kind they were and that (paraphrasing) “he’s doing what he thinks is right”. That’s not exactly a strong endorsement for your king.
So they said in S1 they sent Alliser to KL. Then never show him go. Then in S2 they sent a raven asking for more men to guard the Wall because of the walkers and they never mentioned what happened with Alliser going there? Not good.
Did Sansa tell Jon that? That makes the continuity error even worse.
Oh and btw …please take this in the nicest possible way: Spelling CerSEI’s name in three different ways in just as many sentences is a remarkable feat!! 😀 ..actually chuckled a bit while reading it 🙂
Yes. That’s what Sam’s scenes at the Citadel this season have been about.
That the Citadel is full of information that could be helpful to the people of Westeros, but the maesters as gatekeepers of that information are failing to take advantage of it.
Sam said this episode:
Dead Dane Walking,
You can see the proper progression of the spelling taking shape. or is it the lawful ascension? or the line of succession?
Thx Dee. Will do that! ….Yeeeesss “new” show to fill the first weeks of the gap after GoT S7E7 🙂
Mr Derp,
I like that they made both of them right and wrong. Just like with Jon and Sansa.
As a matter of fact, that was the part causing my chuckle to surface 😀 Like: “There’s hope!”
I think that Sansa want´s to be queen in the north more then she admitts and why wouln´t she , Sansa have more right to the throne in the north then Jon Snow , Snows a bastard , Sansa a true Stark , my point is Sansa want to be queen as i think Jon doesn´t want to be the king though she not admitts it .
nvm
RoaringLion,
Wanting to be QITN is fine and understandable. However, what Glover and Royce said is treasonous and punishable by death. They were inciting a MUTINY. Sansa is second in command. One of her responsibilities is to put up strong public support for her king while he’s away. Instead she just gives a very bland response and allows the treasonous sentiment to go unpunished and unnoticed. I didn’t think that was ok for Sansa to do.
The last Jon had heard of Bran was Sam telling him that he went beyond the Wall. Obviously after all that time he would assume that a crippled boy with a small party would never be able to survive that long. He wouldn’t know of any assistance from Benjen or the CotF, and with their help he still barely made it out.
It had been a long time since Brienne saw Arya, and in ‘dispatching’ Sandor she left her alone. So there was knowledge that she WAS alive but it had been quite a while since there was any news of her. Of course he’s going to think the worst.
So, even though he’d heard they were alive at one point, the dangerous situations they were in and how long it had been since, it makes perfect sense for him to think they were dead (now).
So does not that say something to you , why do you think that shes not doing that , because she wants to be Queen herself , and when she see the Glovers and Royce throwing dirt on Jon that even more confirms to her that she is the true ruler of the North , if she supported Jon as King in the North she should have done as you say , i agree there , but she doesn´t do that like i wrote she do not admitt it but she wants to rule the North herself , and with Glover & Royce supporting that shes closer to the throne she wants but not admitts she want in the North thats my thought.
Mr Derp,
She’s having to tread a very fine line though.
Even admonishing them for suggesting treason would be a risky strategy. As she says in the next scene, the Northern Lords are proud and the Starks desperately need their men.
It may be better to allow them to grumble about Jon’s absence and feign sympathy for now, rather than risk alienating them completely by flying off the handle.
Anyway, I think she and Arya will soon take down Littlefinger and they’ll be able to offer the other Lords an example of exactly what happens to traitors.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I will do a dance of pure joy if that happens. Pure fookin joy I tells ya.
Clob,
Indeed. But it was poorly written because that context is not well established and therefore the viewers’ confusion is understandable.
The last mention of Bran and Arya in a scene with Jon was a fleeting reference in 6×04 when Sansa insists Winterfell belongs to all the Stark siblings. And the assumption at that point is that they could still be alive somewhere.
There’d been no indication since then that Jon had given up hope on them, so for him to suddenly declare that he thought they were dead appears completely out of the blue.
I’m afraid this is one of the problems with cutting the exposition to a bare minimum.
If Sansa and Jon had shared a more explicit conversation about Bran and Arya this season or last, then the viewer would be up to speed with what they know and think about their possible fates.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
And she’s treading a fine line, no doubt. A line that needs to treaded indeed. However, for me, the line is crossed once open suggestions of mutiny start. She doesnt need to go flying off the handle or go ape shit on them either. She can make it very clear without escalating things that she is not ok with that kind of chatter. Ruling is tough.
Thats why I kind of enjoyed their scenes in Eastwatch. I thought both were right and wrong at times.
Cersei’s Brain:
I think you’ll find the explanation you’re looking for in Jared’s nicely detailed comment at 11:24 am
Mr Derp,
Me too.
If they destroy Arya and Sansa’s relationship in the next couple of episodes rather than destroying Littlefinger’s very existence, then I’ll have to genuinely consider giving up on this show.
You’re right. So yes, maybe there should be a lion instead of a stag.
You’ll find me on that dance floor as well!! Corks will fly the very moment that happens
I don´t think that Littlefinger is done yet with hes chaos , if Sansa and Arya would bring down Littlefinger , that would mean the loss of the Knights of the Vale , which they not can afford right now with the White Walkers closer and closer to Winterfell , if they don´t think that Arya herself could bring the White Walkers down though.
Jennipeg,
Ok, there was no way I would have remembered that. I feel relieved; I was getting worried…!
I think Jon’s only info about Bran was from Sam back in season 4(3?). Telling him that his crippled brother went beyond the Wall with two more kids and Hodor. I don’t recall Sansa knowing anything about Bran before he showed up at Winterfell.
Arya, last time Brienne saw her was back when she was with the Hound. A teenage girl, all alone, no news over all this time… I think I would probably think her dead as well.
Jon, or Sansa, have no way of knowing Bran evolved into a lesser god and Arya into Murder Queen. They still see them as cripple boy and helpless girl.
firstone,
GMTA!! I swear to the old gods and the new, you just wrote what I’ve been mentioning for months. I want Arya to off Cersei, but for the cause, not justice/revenge. Here’s the update of my imaginary scenario as of S7E5:
S8E1: Now that Arya has Catspaw, she gets herself a few WW scalps in an early battle. But then a raven arrives saying the Golden Company about to descend on them from the South as the Others are descending on them from the North. Jon approaches Arya with this news. She proposes Dany-Lyft drop off her and Sandor off just outside KL. And she gives him Catspaw, since it’s probably a Targaryen blade.Sandor pretends to be her dear old dad and takes lodgings in KL. With a pretty blonde face, she gets a job at the Red Keep based on having been Tywin’s cupbearer at Harrenhal once. She spends a few days as a serving girl named Lizzie scoping the joint and looking for a chink in the Cersei protection squad. First Arya offs Qyburn. Qyburn had been keeping Gregor hale and hearty, so he starts having problems. They try to kill him, but he fights back–Cleganebowl! Sandor dons Gregor’s armour and together they bring Cersei’s dinner. She opens all 7 locks and lets them in. Whilst she guzzles wine with a little food (which she has Lizzie try first), she chats with Lizzie about Tywin, Jaime’s betrayal, her lost son, the war. Lizzie goes for more wine and comes back as Arya with Needle. Cersei’s now so pissed that she doesn’t notice. Arya says who she is and asks her if she has any final words. Suddenly sober, Cersei orders Gregor to kill her. Sandor removes the helmet. Cersei tells them about her lost son. Gendry was his name. Killed by Joffrey in his purge of Baratheon bastards. Arya tells her Gendry left with her and recruits to the Nights Watch. She says she told the Gold Cloaks a dead boy was Gendry, so they let him live. Cersei hugs her, thanks her and takes one last sip. “I’m ready”. Next morning “Cersei” reads a proclamation to the crowd abdicating her crown to Daenerys Targaryen, and urging everyone who can fight to get weapons and go north to fight the enemy come to kill us all.
Actually, this isn’t true. All Sansa has to do is tell Royce that LF had Lysa poison Jon Arryn and blame the Lannisters, then pushed Lysa out the moon door and made Sansa lie before marrying her off to Ramsay to “keep her quiet”. She also knows he had something to do with Joffrey being poisoned.
She has a lot of dirt on him.
Royce is NOT LF’s man. The guy creeps him out. So after the Stark pack deals with LF, Royce could make himself regent until that crazy boy dies or comes of age and still stay loyal to the North.
I’m not saying I think LF is done. I want him to be done and there is a feasible way for them to keep the army if he is, but I know he still has some things to reveal.
Hopefully he does that soon so Bran/Ghost, Arya and Sansa can take turns killing him.
🙂
A girl can dream.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
That sounds perfect!!!
I hope I see it happen just like that on my TV screen as soon as possible!!!!
Well Done!!
I wish D&D would visit WotW and read your post!!!!!
Cersei’s Brain,
Actually, this might just work. Said wight could be brought to Cersei and allowed to do what wights do. End of Cersie, dispose of wight, and Dany walks right in….Nah, its still not the best idea/
HAHAHAHAHAH, oh,my sides….
Sou,
Reek told Sansa that Bran was alive in S5 -but I guess Sansa and Jon could have discussed and decided they were lost forever. It just seemed sort of random in the episode
She doesn’t have to admonish them necessarily- what she needs to do is make the case for what Jon is doing, speak on his behalf. It’s VP 101. United front. Be his spokesperson. “He’s doing what HE thinks is right” is at best a cop out, basically saying she agrees with them and it undermines Jon.
The more I think about it – I have to watch again – but it seems they positioned those scenes such that Arya on one extreme will push Sansa to meet in the middle to get it right.
Side note, I love Arya’s loyalty to Jon and her character in general but I don’t understand the occasional person who thinks she should sit on the IT at the end – I don’t see that as fitting her skill set or character development at all!
DireWolf Lvr,
Jaime has two scenes with Cersei.
In the first one, he informs her of the battle, talks about the Dothraki fighting prowess and Drogon’s power. Mentions they lost 1000 wagons of the supplies. Basically says they can’t win this war.
The second scene happens after he is tricked into meeting Tyrion and he tells her about it.
Posted as it occurred to me.
Cersie uses wildfire at armistice meeting. Dany Unburnt 3-3