Finally, HBO has released this season’s total number of Game of Thrones viewers (via Entertainment Weekly). With over 23 million viewers on average per episode – so far – across all platforms (first airings, repeats, DVR, and streaming), the season has set a new record, beating last year’s 20 million mark. This represents an increase of 15 %, if my maths serves me correctly.
We already knew that the first airing average is up by some 6 % this season. EW also revealed a further breakdown: the total TV and on-demand numbers are up 4 %, while HBO Go and HBO Now together saw the largest relative year-to-year increase – 70 % with 2.5 million average views per episode. This suggests that viewing habits are slowly changing and that streaming platforms are, unsurprisingly, on the rise.
Surely, once more data is collected after the finale and the dust settles on the sixth season of Game of Thrones, this number will rise further and we’ll get updated by the HBO once more. I’m repeating myself, but it’s impressive that new viewers are still joining the ranks in the show‘s sixth year!
Gendry
Rohirrim!!
TheMadKing,
That’s pretty good! The Leeroy Jenkins one was funny too.
Tycho Nestoris,
This one?
Game of Fucking Thrones
So glad my favorite show gets the recognition it deserves. Hopefully many Emmys are on the way 😀
Bunny Without Banners,
Haha yes, that’s it! Some commenters pointed out that he could’ve added the Hound at the end for the “at least I have chicken” line.
Tycho Nestoris,
LOL… one of my friends shared that on Facebook. It was just luck that I knew what you were talking about! 🙂
It’s quite impressive isn’t it but deserved nontheless.It’s amazing that it continues to gain new viewers but I know at least three people who binge watched it before season six started just to find out who the fuck was Jon Snow.It was so overhyped in the off season lol
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Absolutely beautiful :’)
Cool!
Jenny,
Exactly! My dad, mum, best friend, 3 cousins and ex boyfriend did the same 😛
Sweetness. Game of Thrones deserves the nod.
As someone who played WoW a LOT from the release in ’05 until I had to become a grown up with a kid, the Leeroy Jenkins BotB cut has me fucking ROLLING. I remember when that video was first posted.
Now I feel old.
Great news! Its amazing that even in the sixth season the audience is still growing.
Best show ever!
Rhaenys Stark,
I know and I don’t even live in the US.My mom’s friend told me she would start this show game of thrones so she could find out who jon snow was cause she saw it on facebook.She had never even heard of it before so her only spoiler was that Jon survives until season five.She didn’t even know ned died.It’s been fun having her call me every two episodes so she can react to everything haha
This is amazing and I’m not the least bit surprised!
Awesome!!
Amazing shot of Jon from Episode 9!
https://i.reddituploads.com/a384c890cad54b0e9bae7331670eec21?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=b070c342ed9f582654e4b672bbf14b75
Bunny Without Banners,
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Just reading the text transcript is hilarious.
http://lybio.net/tag/leeroy-jenkins-transcripts/
Connor,
Wow…
Fingers crossed for something even better in episode 10!
while HBO Go and HBO Now together saw the largest relative year-to-year increase – 70 % with 2.5 million average views per episode
explains why the record hasn’t been broken for the first airing.
Connor,
my heart melts
And I thought you would show this:
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qB2C54Mwfovy9SE/giphy.gif
It is no surprise the viewers’ number is rising: for instance, my brother and two cousins over in the US are just finishing watching season 5. Season 6 follows and they will be among the new viewers next year for season 7!
coronaprince,
No way!!
I’m almost positive the finale will break records. BoB was ridiculously popular and loved, more than any GoT episode ever, despite not having the first-airing numbers due to the game. And so that gives TWoW a huge bump.
After five years of waiting, I’ll can’t believe it’s just three more days until we get “The Winds of Winter”!!!
Girls, you should have seen my mom watching the Red Wedding a few months ago…?
Ginevra,
Hahaha I was talking about the beautiful Jon picture but I agree with everything you said anyway.
I predict about 8.5 million viewers.
I also have friends who just got HBO a couple of months ago … they have been hearing me talk about Thrones for years but never showed any real interest in watching “just another TV show” …
Well – they decided to watch the first season just to see what the fuss was all about, and they ended up binge-watching the whole thing right up until they caught up to us in season 6 episode 6 …
And – now they hate having to wait a week for another episode, and are freaking out that we will have to wait 10 months for season 7!!
So I wouldn’t be surprised if the numbers kept climbing right up until the final episode as more and more people get on the HYPE train!!
Oh my God, I actually rewatched the scene and it is REAL!!!
So funny!!
Sou,
Haha one can only imagine! My mum was crying unstoppably for about 10 minutes. She really scared me 😛
Actually, the line was “I prefer chicken” but yours is, equally, as good.
I said it before and I’ll repeat it again here … Miguel Sapochnik FTW!!!!!
BoB was intense and exquisitely shot. I’m hoping that Miguel gets the Emmy nod for Best Director because he deserves it. I can’t wait to see what he does for the finale.
Rhaenys Stark,
Poor lady! Mine was too depressed to cook or do anything that day. O μπαμπας την εβγαλε με ελιες και παξιμαδια.
Now she’s up to watch the season 5 finale…
I’ve been tormenting a friend of mine who is quite the book-purist with that. He’s about to kill me, and I think it’s hilarious.
Since we’re talking about family getting into GoT, I know I’ve mentioned my almost 80 year old step-father watching the show. I always love to get his texts about it, but am careful never to text him first, as sometimes he doesn’t see the episode until a few days after it airs (he waits for his lady-friend, so they can watch it together, which I find soooo sweet). Anyway, he watched BoB last night, and this morning, I got a text from him commenting on how happy he was to see Ramsay get what he deserved. It tickles me to no end.
Oh, and the thought of the season finale being in the deft hands of Sapochnik makes me even more excited for the episode!
Victoria of the Vale,
I am such a nerd… The Hound’s line is, “I prefer chicken” and man do I love it. It’s origin is so good too!
Polliver: You lived your life for the king. You gonna die for some chickens?
Sandor ‘The Hound’ Clegane: Someone is.
Boom! That’s awesome!
Back on topic. In the Warcraft vid Leeroy is microwaving chicken (supposedly) while his clan makes detailed plans. At the end of the slaughter, Leeroy (the optimist) says, “at least I have chicken.” So the youtuber could’ve added the hound’s face for Leeroy’s last line audio dub.
This show is ridiculously successful.
One of my friends just caught up this episode and now can’t wait for the next.He is so upset and been complaining to me that he has to wait ten months for the next season.And I’m like oh you sweet summer child I started this on season one you don’t know real pain lol
Just goes to show what a great show it is. Ignore the haters, ignore their endless prattle about how the writing has gotten bad, Ignore their constant raffle about the show becoming to predictable, ignore their trolling about how the show has lots it’s magic because they are wrong. The show is brilliant and episode 9 this year has been sublime.
Red Viper,
My cousin and his wife are going to binge watch it this summer. Im so jealous of them! hahaha
And my colleague as wwell is going to start soon!
mau,
It really really is
Hahaha thea i manoula! Tha fate kala meta to 6×02… Den mporw na grapsw sta ellinika giati emfanizetai leei to post mou san spam… bummer 😛
I wonder once you put total viewers into account, how the different shows stack up. Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, and The Big Vang Theory all have to be in the Top 5.
14 episodes left.
Am I the only one who will scream out loud when we finally see Lyanna Stark?!?!
Earlier in 2012 I started watching the show/reading the books and was super obsessed with ASOIAF and GoT. I singed the tune and literally everyone in my classroom got tired of it and how much I loved it but then I showed it to two of my friends and they really dug it. After that I showed it to my parents and my grandma and they loved it so that’s the reason we got HBO in 2013 and have watched the show together ever since. One of my closest friends also hated when I brought it up but I showed it to her and she’s the biggest fan of the show besides me that I’ve known. Nowadays a lot of my family, friends and acquaintances are interested in it and talk of the episodes every time they air. Isn’t it funny how life works?
Dee Stark,
Binge-watching… watching several episodes in one go, is it? When wathching (or rewatching) the series, I always stick to the rule “one episode a day”. I’ve learned that I care more about the characters that way (spending more time with them). I always rewatch GoT that way before the next season (although next year I think I’ll only watch season 6), I’ve watched LOST that way in 2011 and even though it took me nearly half a year, it was such an experience for me. This year, I’m watching The X-Files. Well, actually I’m watching it since August 2015 and I managed to watch 157 episodes and the movie. 45 episodes left.
I made my 60 year old father watch the show!!
He loves it! Problems with names but oh well, I am there to remind him.
We tried to convince mother to watch it, but there’s to much gore and nudity for her….
Really love how whenever we have a family dinner or I just go visit him he asks me questions. Sometimes the translation can be clunky so I explain it to him….etc.
Love how GOT transcendes age and generations.
I have HBO channels and don’t watch it live anymore. I don’t really see the point considering if I watch it on HBO GO then I get the Inside the Episode appended to the end automatically which I love. The latest it has been available this year is roughly 9:05 ET and a few episodes it was even available BEFORE 9 at like 8:57.
Good to see the overall numbers are crushing it.
Seeing these numbers makes me smile. Of course, I was fully expecting that when this report came in that Game of Thrones would have broken its own viewership record yet again. But that casual level of certainty is remarkable in its own right, and not something I take for granted.
At times, it still staggers my mind that the dark fantasy show which debuted to a respectable but modest 2.22 million viewers back in April of 2011 has grown into such a beloved worldwide phenomenon that, as its sixth season draws to a close, shows no signs that it has reached its peak. It’s a credit to the incredible cast and crew, to David Benioff and D.B. Weiss and Bryan Cogman, to HBO, and of course, to the loyal and passionate fanbase who not only stuck with the show, but helped enthusiastically spread the word so that others could find it and fall in love as well.
Onwards and upwards! 🙂
http://www.pandora.com/station/play/3202476205293478818
The entire soundtrack can be heard here!
http://wikiofthrones.com/2239/tom-wlaschiha-explains-jaqen-hghar-let-arya-leave-braavos/
Jaqen explains why he let Arya leave.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
So haunting….I want to weep when I hear it
Azzer,
Bravo, very well said!
This sunday there won´t be “on the next episode” preview …
The 9 months long wait begins.
10. And it could be longer if they don’t premiere in April. They only announced a 2017 premiere date. With the shortened Season 7 maybe they wait a little later to premeire.
Bunny Without Banners,
Omg, lmfao that’s funny!
We don’t really know how many more episodes are left yet. HBO hasn’t officially announced the pickup order number of episodes yet…D&D are pushing for 7 / 6 for the final 2 seasons (or 7A and 7B, however they do it) HBO probably pushing for more, given the success of the show and HBO’s recent programming woes…I would imagine a compromise of eventually something between 74-76 episodes in total?
Nadia,
Lyanna and Rhaegar have always been on my most anticipated list. I wonder if we’ll even see Rhaegar – Lyanna S6 finale, Rhaegar S7? So excited!!
As for the ratings, adds more credence to the fact that this is the biggest show on TV. S6 deserves every award, validation and praise.
https://youtu.be/CJ40jeahsrs
Tower of Joy pt.2…
Amazing.
Rhaenys Stark,
I can’t. Give Ramin that Enmy!!
YES PLEASE
Rhaenys Stark,
JON’S THEME IS THERE! IT’S LIT!
Flayed Potatoes,
2:11 right?? :O
Rhaenys Stark,
Ok, that’s my favorite track. When the King In The North bit pops up at the end…goosebumps.
Flayed Potatoes,
I’m pretty sure it’s the theme from the ‘King In The North’ track.
Rhaenys Stark,
Yes!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Yes but if we assume that
it fits. Anyway this track is my favourite, makes me instantly cry.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
THE KIT IN THE NORTH!
Flayed Potatoes,
HAHAHAHAH
Can’t wait for “The Tower” scene this Sunday, the music made me much more excited then I initially was.
Has Rhaegar been mentioned this season (he was heavily mentioned in S5 but I don’t think he has this season)? It seems like the show is just going to confirm that Jon is Lyanna’s son and we’ll have to wait for the Rhaegar reveal next season. I really hope they cast him.
Isn’t “The Tower” music from the first part of TOJ?
Was Lyanna even cast? Child Lyanna was in the Bran vision, but maybe TOJ part 2 won’t show older Lyanna face. Just the bloody body and baby Jon?
Jack Bauer 24,
She was cast. I believe she is the ‘young stunner aged 16-20’ we heard about last year.
Rhaenys Stark,
Okay that made me cry a little. Beautiful.
Jack Bauer 24,
No, “The Tower” is definitely new music that we haven’t heard yet this season. Having now listened to the entire Season 6 soundtrack on YouTube, I don’t believe that the music from the fight at the Tower of Joy is on there, which is a shame (I can’t tell if the music from that fight is a fully a new creation, since I definitely recognize some familiar elements from prior seasons. However, I would have liked it to be on the soundtrack nonetheless).
Still, the entire soundtrack is incredible. It might be Ramin’s best. “Light of the Seven” and “Winter Has Come” are already two of my favorite pieces that he’s ever created for the show, and “The Tower” is beautiful as well. Just to name a few.
Jared,
I’ve been listening and I love all of them. At this point I think Winter Has Come and Winds of Winter are my favorites. But the Tower is wonderful.
Rhaenys Stark,
They’ve really kept a lid on who she is.
I wonder what will prompt bran to go to that vision or can he even control where to go ?
Jay Targ,
Ned mentioned Rhaegar in the Tower of Joy flashback.
Jack Bauer 24,
There were rumours about Ozge Gurel being cast as Lyanna, but not sure how reliable those are. She certainly looks the part.
If the show2 nis doing good then why shorten the seasons…..why not take to 10 season. After than create sequels….game of thrones is the star wars of this generation it will never die off….
Yes, I put that on Facebook for all of my Harry Potter friends who’ve read ASOIAF but not watched or not obsessed over the show.
Jared,
This! Jared you’re the best commenter
Promise me, Ned…
Flayed Potatoes,
Jon and Stark theme, combined……
CONFIRMED
Ginevra,
Heeheehee. I have to give my friend some credit, though. He cannot abide any change whatsoever from the books, so he stopped watching during
He’s stuck to his guns, too. No matter how huge the show has gotten, he still hasn’t tuned back in.
Love, love, love! I mean, I don’t trust it as much as if it’d come from D&D, but it sounds very much in keeping with the way I’ve read the character and would explain much.
Previously on, baby. That will tell us all we need to know. I feel confident will get Rhaegar and legitimacy explained if not confirmed.
Yeah, Winds of Winter is by far my fave. We get it officially tomorrow, right?
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Dude, that got me feelin’ things 🙁
Ginevra,
Can you imagine the previously on and people who don’t know wondering why we keep hearing about this Rhaegar guy? 🙂
Previously on Game of Thrones…
“In my dreams, I kill him every night.”
“He told me Rhaegar was good at killing people.”
“Rhaegar never liked killing. He loved singing.”
“That’s Lyanna, my father’s sister. King Robert was supposed to marry her, but Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped her. Robert started a war to win her back. He killed Rhaegar, but she died anyway.”
“How many tens of thousands had to die because Rhaegar chose your aunt?”
“Yes he chose her. And then he kidnapped her and raped her.”
“Elia loved Rhaegar. She obeyed him. And he chose to steal away Lyanna Stark, a pale Northern girl whose veins ran with ice, like all her people.”
“I never met my mother. My father wouldn’t even tell me her name. I don’t know if she’s living or dead. I don’t know if she’s a noblewoman or a fisherman’s wife or a whore…”
“The next time we see each other, we’ll talk about your mother”
I’m a little excited about next episode. 🙂
Flayed Potatoes,
Fook the king! Jon Snow for president 2017 please!
It would be funny if they did have a short “on the next episode” that featured a few hand-drawn storyboards with written notes and a stunning Djawadi score (played on kazoos, of course)… Let the speculation begin! 🙂
RG,
I bet we only get Jon and Ned’s conversation from season 1 and the first TOJ scene in the previously on.
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t think we’ll get all of the details, just the baby reveal. D&D may be giving George a chance to tell everything in the books. It’s possible even they don’t know the full story.
Dee Stark,
That’s so nice of you to say! 🙂 But don’t sell yourself short in that department! Your boundless enthusiasm for the show has really been delightful to see each and every week, especially on those mercifully rare occasions when the conversation becomes contentious. I hope it never wavers!
Ginevra,
We do indeed! I’ve already pre-ordered my copy, and I’ll be listening to it pretty much non-stop through Sunday.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I think you’re probably right about that-as much as I want the whole thing-they have a lot of story to tell for the finale. *cries a little*
Hey, what do you know? Less than fifteen minutes after I typed this, I got a push notification on my phone letting me know that my pre-ordered copy of the Season 6 soundtrack was available for download! Several hours early – ask and you shall receive apparently! I’m off to listen to it in full – if any of you pre-ordered your copy of the soundtrack via iTunes, you may want to check and see if it’s available for you as well!
But first, I’m going to listen to “Light of the Seven”, “Winter Has Come”, and “The Winds of Winter” again …
THE KING IN THE NORTH!
Dany and her army boarding her ships, heading to Westeros!
Yes! It will be awesome. I’m watching with Ice Spider, so it will be particularly awesome.
Jared,
Cool! I didn’t pre-order, but I’m downloading now.
Connor,
Nice! I see 5 wolves in this pic. 🙂
Jared,
Listening to the haunting Light of the seven track and imagining who’s going to die and how is really making me fooking depressed right now. I can’t do it…
Ginevra,
Don’t you think it doesn’t mater if Jon is legitimate or not? He’s not gonna pursue Iron Throne, who knows how war will end.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Sophie said a lot of people will kneel befoe her after Brienne did hers. So that would mean either she’s be Queen and it fits theme of this season or they will kneel before both of them. Women takes charge but then how would Jon unite and prepare for war against walkers. He would be powerless and who knows if Sansa believes in these stories.
Okay, so “The Tower” starts off with
People that have a better ear for music than me, does that sound right? If so, that is one hell of spoilery track! Hahaha.
*spoiler tagging just to be safe*
Rhaenys Stark
People, please spoiler this sh!t. These soundtracks make it too obvious what’s gonna happen!
Season ends with Deanerys, possibly heading to Westeros. So, no falling of the Wall then
BunBunStark,
So UK voted yes. Wonder how it will affect Game of Thrones if ever. Or how long it will take for Britain to really leave EU. Interesting to say at least.
Geralt of Rivia,
You’re right, that’s not
It really is a beautiful piece of music. Ramin Djawadi is soooo good.
So when Jaqen asked Arya if she is no one, he actually wanted her to own up that she has fully embraced her real identity. I hope this means that the FM story is not done yet and we will find out why Jaqen was interested in training her and what returns does he expect.
Geralt of Rivia,
2 years at minimum and could go on for as long as 7, some said.
So should be long enough for GOT to finish.
BunBunStark,
Never thought about it. You might be right because I just put in the battle and think about his theme from episode 3.
They don’t show a ‘Previously on’ in the UK ?
This is bad. Really bad.
Geralt of Rivia,
They’ve been scouting in Spain, so they might move there permanently. There’s also Iceland if they need to shoot winter scenes. I don’t know about indoor shoots.
Connor,
GET HYPE!
BunBunStark,
That’s what it sounds like. But a grander version of the KITN one and the buildup. Like “this is the real deal” version lol.
Jack Bauer 24,
Nah. It will take two years to leave.
“The Winds of Winter” (not pitched, like the previous link). It sounds amazing!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlWOnHlJSYQ
If anyone can find the non-pitched version of The Tower and Winter has Come I might die.
Am for the show continuing its run as most successful show and being such a global phenomenon..
Guys what’s the thought on ” the maester” is it about Sam and citadel or another one from KL like light of seven and hear me roar.
To me it does seem like it have a bit of light of seven in it so makes me wonder it will just be pycelle and kevan dying.
dragonbringer,
Nah to me it sounds like we’re seeing something wonderous, something new for the first time: Oldtown, The Citadel, inside the Citadel. Especially in the beginning and starting at 1:35.
dragonbringer,
Everyone except Qyburn and Mountain will die. This is my bet and Cersei will go mad. Possibly using wildfire for Sept of Baelor.
Maester seems like Citadel.
Flayed Potatoes,
Thank you ..he must be uploading the others soon enough right..
I have already created my own version of how these scenes will play out especially for the winds of winter and light of seven and Tower of joy..
Then only it hit me how much the soundtrack alone gives away..
After all this i was left with only one question wondering if jorah comes back to dany’s side when she sets sail for westeros..or he will be only on season 7.
Can’t believe they were so secretive this entire Season 6 run and then released a spoilery soundtrack days before the finale. Like releasing it next week instead would have been that big of a deal?
Care to share? I’d like to know how you think these scenes will play out. Espcially winds and tower.
He will get the Iron Throne whether he pursues it or not. Just like he got Lord Commander without pursuit and like he’s about to get KitN without pursuit. King Snow, the ravens know and crow.
R + L = J is completely freaking meaningless without legitimacy. Jon has to be the prince that was promised. His birth was hidden to hide the obviousness that he is Azor Ahai and to misdirect us toward the ultimate red herring, Dany. Were it not for the internet and the spread of the R + L = J, very few would ever think that TPTWP = Jon. And as Flayed Potatoes brilliantly said:
Hmm, why doesn’t that work?
Ned also wouldn’t have needed to lie to his wife and family for years and years to protect a secret bastard who had no claim to the throne anyway. Lyanna wouldn’t have asked Ned to sacrifice his honor without reason.
Winds is Dany and company leaving for Westeros. They spoiled their own final scene of the finale. I’m ok with this being the final scene though, because i can’t do another year of a Jon Snow type cliffhanger.
Any tracks on there that sounds like a NK/WW finale song?
Geralt of Rivia,
Winds of winter will be a final montage of dany jon and tower of joy following the reveal and it will be the credits song
Sophie says a lot of shit.
R+l=d then nine months later r+l=j
I’ve been thinking the same thing for awhile and have said it often. Not so much giving George a chance to tell that story, but that it is a large part of the story not ready to the point where it’s supposed to be revealed.
That sucks! Perhaps someone will post what happens in the open chat so you’ll know. I almost posted about Shireen and her magically unburning wooden stag shown in last episode’s “previously on.” I wonder if anyone else posted about that. The very biggest things always get posted, like Benjen last year. We were so hyped.
Dutch Maester,
Geralt of Rivia,
Thank you guys..
I will be happy we get citadel and marywn ..
Well you know that winds is going to be the final scene and that it will be dany setting sail because its mixture of dany’s and greyjoys theme..
I believe the scene will be starting after some montage or monologue from varys and then cut to dany’s armies boarding the ships ..
There is the music whenever dany is on the march from dracarys and there is the one whenever dany take flight on drogon which means dany will be on top of drogon and not on the ship.
so the first half of track must be eveeyone getting borad and maybe missandei ,GW,darrio watching and after 1.10 mark dany takes to the sky with her dragons and they start moving..
And after 2.10 ends credits begin.
I expect this to be something like how dracarys episode ended but now they are on the ships and dany and dragons grown ..
As to the tower ..the first half must be surely ned and lyanna having some conversation and then Ned coming to learn about this baby boy and him promising.
Iam actually very interested in light of seven which is something new on GoT…The track especially after 4.45 is so haunting and scary…I wonder of we don’t get any screaming or something like that from the scene but instead a slow version of burning and people running zoom in and zoom out ..kind of what we see in Sherlock Holmes ( it only comes to my mind because I rewatched it recently ..Robert Downey’s sherlock )
Ginevra
Lot of wishful thinking on your behalf. Legitimacy matters not, Targeryan dynasty ended more than a decade ago. Only way another Targeryan will rule is by conquest. Deanerys may rule, not because she’s a Targeryan but because she’s the most powerful character in the story. She’s only gonna get stronger when Dorne declare for her as well.
The only way Jon beats Deanerys’ claim is if she herself supports him.
Did anyone read this article? Scary thought in regards to GOT funding…
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/23/high-stakes-for-game-of-thrones-and-the-brexit-vote.html
Elizabeth,
Oh I do hope we get the full story, i.e., both mother and father. If they make it a “cliffhanger”, it won’t really feel like one since everyone is already expecting the father to be Rhaegar. I just can’t think of any possible father that would make Ned want to protect the baby so badly that he’d pretend it’s his, even if it meant breaking the heart of his wife and tainting his reputation.
BranTheBlessed,
Well you can’t expect anything other than if people think that one of the main character is red herring and just there in the story to provide dragons and armies she got to the hero
Its a waste of time so I don’t want to get into that arguments.
If Missandei, Grey Worm, and Daario stay in Mereen, we’ll probably never see them again. Don’t think they spend any filming time there without Dany or Tyrion. Not sure why Dany would take the Unsullied army to Westeros without their leader though.
I wonder, since they managed to wrap up Arya’s Braavos storyline before Sam gets to Oldtown, if we’ll still get the Faceless Men at the Citadel subplot and find out what’s going on with that.
dragonbringer:
I don’t think Jon Snow survives in the end. He’s been brought back by R’hllor for a reason, mostly to play an important role in the fight against the dead. He’ll die for good once he serves that purpose. That could be the bittersweet ending GRRM’s hinted at.
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes this may be last time we see them..
That’s really one of the question iam looking forward in the episode ..
Who she is going to leave behind and take them with her..
In the books there are other armies like mother’s men she has created and couple of sellswoeds companies who can take Care of the slavers bay ..
No one is going to oppose hee now anyway because she has already taken out the slaves bay and now the fleet of volantis..
She is not going to leave the worlds best infantry behind..
I kind of want missandei and GW and darrio be with her but I understand why they will be left behind ..
BranTheBlessed,
If legitimacy doesn’t matter, then it won’t be part of the story. We shall see. We may know by Sunday, but I’m afraid that may be wishful thinking on my part, whereas the legitimacy is just logical thinking.
BranTheBlessed,
I believe he will be the king for sure and dany will be the one to die..
Am just against this stupid notion that dany is a red herring despite thousands of foreshadowings and clues in the books.
I agree with you that the reveal will be part of dany’s story and she will be the one to acknowledge him which will stop the doubts of any other..
Its always funny how much people ignore dany in relation to RLJ considering that most of the clues for RLJ comes from dany’s chapters …
Having said that I think there is a chance both of them can survive ..bittersweet ending can mean any number of things and Grrm used Lotr as an example so characters may survive but forever feeling the effects of the war..
Sam,
I have seen a lot of non book readers suggest Robert to be the father, partly because they remember Robert more than Rhaegar, as the latter has only been mentioned a few times and secondly because of all the ‘black of hair’ stuff from S1.
Ginevra,
There is no way Dany turns out to be a red herring. Not only is she one of the biggest characters, she has already fulfilled almost all the conditions for the prophecy. I still feel both Jon and Dany are connected to the prophecy, and we may never get any clear answer. Or else, I feel there will be some horrible twist to this prophecy which we have not yet seen coming. I don’t think it will end up being about one hero saving the world.
Jack Bauer 24,
She could leave the Unsullied to keep the peace in Meereen. Or she simply doesn’t have enough ships right now and the rest will join her later. She’s going to have a lot of armies from Dorne to make up for the loss.
dragonbringer,
I have no idea if he is uploading.
I’m curious about Jorah as well. I can see why they’d have him join her later, but also why not.
I totally agree. Robert was on a “kill all Targaryens” spree so Ned would have had to take the baby and promise not to reveal the fact his father was Rhaegar. At least, we all believe that and I hope it proves true. Lord, I hope to be so wrong and have them reveal EVERYTHING:)
Flayed Potatoes,
Yes I also see them have jorah arrive later …but its feels wrong he should be with her when she goes ..
I believe she will take unsullied with her ..
Or maybe she only takes half of unsullied and leaves other half behind ..
4000 unsullied is still the best infantry in the world .
The fact that she’s fulfilled so many of the conditions of the prophecy is what makes her such a great red herring.
But I certainly don’t think Dany is only a red herring. She is an integral part of the story and a truly powerful conqueror. She will play a huge role in the endgame, absolutely, just not as AAR or TPTWP.
ETA: We could replace “prophecy” with “fan theory” and Marwyn’s quote would still be terribly true!
dragonbringer,
Yeah I think not leaving a solid force to defend Meereen would reflect poorly on her. Not to mention it wouldn’t be in character imo, since she’s portrayed as caring about the slaves and smallfolk.
dragonbringer:
Yeah, I had initially thought Daenerys would die with all her dragons. She might ofcourse, but if I were to bet on who out of Jon and Daenerys is most likely to die in the end, my money would be on Jon. He’s been brought back from the dead to a world he’s not supposed to be in. The prospect of him becoming King and living a long and prosperous life after this does not seem at all likely.
If GRRM releases his next book before the final GoT season airs, I’d be most interested to read alive-again Jon’s pov. That could give big hints on Jon’s fate.
In the show, Melisandre’s dialogue “Maybe he brought you here to die again” and Jon’s “What kind of God would do that?”, what does that tell us?
crabber son,
Jon is older than Daeny.
Ginevra,
She does but her being Queen would make sense considering theme of this season “women take charge” but Jon as King would make sense as how else is he going to prepare for army of the dead. Only Jon, Tormund and Wildlings knows about them.
As for his legitimacy. Targaryens reign ended and only way Daeny can earn is by conquest. Nobody will give her anything just because she is a Targaryen. Same goes for Jon. Nobody will give him anything ust because his dad was Rhaegar unless Daeny wants him to rule wth her or he is chosen because there is no other option. He would never pursue it. So him being legitimate is basically irrelevant from this point of view and they got army of zombies coming their way.
Jack Bauer 24,
Weird decision to reveal soundtrack before finale and reveal last scene of the season. Also Tower soundtrack is telling. I think people will be dissapointed with the way TOJ will be revealed. People expect something grand but it doesn’t look like it will end in cliffhanger. As for brexit. They got two years before they can move on so Game of Thrones might good.
ghost of winterfell,
I’ve read the Ro+L=J here as well. However, how can Ned remain best friends with Robert if he knew Robert impregnated (raped? forced?) Lyanna? It doesn’t make sense. And why are the Targ kingsguards protecting Lyanna and the baby? I wonder if the timeline would fit as well (where Robert was when Lyanna became pregnant). Anyway, I hope we learn Jon’s parentage soon. Please make it this Sunday!
Ginevra,
An easy thing to say one who has fulfilled red herring when the other one has to fulfill anything regards to that ..
A thing about that quote ..it makes more sense that quote applies to rhaegar and mel and cersei and mirri ..
Why does people need to use that quote in regards to dany I will never understand ..
Dany does not know any prophecy or she does not think she has fulfilled any prophecy .
The one who knows about the prophecy was rhaegar ..and another one who knows about the prophecy is jon who immediately starts dreaming about it after he learns about it..
How is this for a tale…and regards to the quote. .
Rhaegar who mistook the prophecy and took lyanna started a war that ended up making dany born and taken to essos where the khalasar and dragons will be come forth and fulfill said prophecies ..
What you are suggesting is that rhaegar got it right which stands opposite of whatever that quote says ..
But carry on .
This episode was interesting as to tell as where his story might go. Tormund and Davos talk about Kings and Jon is not one. Also this that he might die again. He might be brought back for one purpose. Who knows but possiblities are there.
One person mentioned to me this theory that three fires Daeny must light. Birth of dragons, Drogo, then Khals. Third one could be for Jon and his funeral.
If I remember correctly, in the books, Dany dreams/thinks of meeting other family members who can conquer/rule Westeros with her.
Sam,
No the timeline does not fit. Jon was born in 283 AC and Lyanna was kidnapped/ eloped a few weeks after the touney of Harrenhal, which was in 281 AC, if I am not mistaken. Besides, we know Lyanna was not interested in Robert. She said as much to Ned. And I really doubt Robert would force himself on her! Plus, Robert as Jon’s father, with Ned hiding this makes no sense.
RLJ is pretty much the only option left on the show. Only the reveal remains. Unfortunately, it looks likely that we will only get the Lyanna part of the reveal. The Rhaegar part will come next season. But it makes sense, this season we saw Jon fully embrace his Stark identity, and him finding out and accepting his Targ heritage will come next season.
Flayed Potatoes,
She will leave some force like I said she had created armies out of freed men that can be left behind in the books but the show did not go into the details..
But whatever happens I don’t think anyone is going to rise against new regime in the hopes of returning the cities to their former glory ..
Except for Season 2, GoT has always consistently the soundtrack days before the end of the season, between Episodes 9 and 10. They certainly sell more that way.
Sam,
She believes that the other two riders is the only persons she can trust..
And wonders how nice it would have been if rhaegar’s son was alive she would have married him and he would have ruled instead of her .
One thing I’m curious to find out – Isaac said that Bran would be a “kingmaker”. I wonder what he meant by that. Will it be this season? I suppose so since I believe the actors don’t really know what’s to come in the next season until they get their scripts for that season.
It would be great if someone could post what’s shown in Previously On. I’d love to know 🙂
dragonbringer,
Jon did not start dreaming about it as soon as he heard of the prophecy. He only dreamt of it once, in his second last pov chapter, long after he had heard about the prophecy. Besides there were very telling things in this dream. One, that he was clad in black ice and wielding a fiery sword. Here he literally was ice and fire personified. And secondly,in the very end of his dream he feels a gnarled hand on his shoulder and is woken up by Mormont’s raven. That gnarled hand most likely belongs to Bloodraven, add to it the fact that Mormont’s raven also likely is connected to the 3ER, then it could very well be that the 3ER had something to do with Jon having this dream. The dream foreshadows Jon’s connection to the prophecy, imo.
BranTheBlessed,
Yeah I can see how easily that happens.
But the more I think the more I believe they both will survive and help restore the seven kingdoms back to normal
dragonbringer,
Yes, that part. So, if R+L=J, then Rhaegar did leave a son. I wonder how she’d react to that when she learns about it (if she ever learns about it).
ghost of winterfell,
I could understand if they postpone the dad reveal to next season. If Jon would indeed be KitN as some here suggest (I’m not sure how though), it might be too much to cram that kind of reveal into 1 episode (Oh, he’s KitN. Oh he’s also a Targ). Oh well, we’ll see this Sunday.
ghost of winterfell,
Iam not disregarding anything…just pointing out how the quote applies to others than it does to dany .
Sam,
Oh she will learn about it. .
If you take all the clues about RLJ most of them come from dany’s chapters…
The reveal will matter most to only two people one is jon himself and second is dany who wants a family ..
She is the only one who believes that rhaegar and lyanna loved each other .and there are visons from HOtu which she will connect as jon once she learns about it ..
dragonbringer,
Missandei and Grey Worm should be in charge of Meereen but Daario must be going with her. He even mentioned that he wants to see the world and her conquering it.
One of them and Tyrion will restore Westeros and rebuild it. Perhaps their child but not sure about it. She can’t have children at least on the show. She miscarried in ADWD but show never touched on this subject.
Ginevra,
Really? Well, it might create buzz and sell more. But sort of spoilery.
Now that you’re all listening to the soundtrack, you gotta hear this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFK0yG8xG5I
We’re in for an AMAZING finale
dragonbringer,
That quote is most often interpreted as applying to Dany’s AAR status because it is given right after Sam tells Marwyn that Aemon believed Dany to be TPTWP. Is that the correct interpretation? Time will tell.
“Who is Azor Ahai Reborn?” was one of the big questions in BryndenBFish’s off-season survey across numerous fan sites. The plurality winner on every single site was Jon Snow, beating out Dany and “many different characters.” In fact, Jon had 23.5 times, 20.5 times, 27 times, 6.5 times, and 20.7 times the number of votes as Dany on Reddit, Westeros, TotH, WotW (here), and ASOIAF Facebook, respectively. Jon has 7.9, 2.6, 3.1, 6.1, and 3.8 times the number of votes as “many different characters.”
Is the plurality of every fansite correct? Time will tell.
My prediction:
Jon is AA and he’ll die with the Night’s King.
Deanerys is the TPtwP who’ll bring peace and prosperity to the people
Reasoning: AA is one most mentioned wrt R’hllor and Jon lives because of his grace. In the books, Melisandre( when she is under the impression that Stannis is AA ) asks R’hllor to show her AA ( cause she wants to check on Stannis who had ridden for war ) but R’hllor only shows her Jon Snow in the flames.
AA is not born a Hero, he becomes one by effort. That’s Jon.
TPtwP is most mentioned wrt Targeryan blood, dragons. And it talks of more general ‘delivering the World from darkness’. It strikingly matches with Deanerys’ wish of making the world a better place. More importantly, an overwhelming list of evidence is in favor of Deanerys being TPtwP– Rheagar looking at Deanerys in her vision when he’s talking about TPtwP, Aemon Targeryan’s words, Deanerys birthing Dragons under a bleeding star etc
Geralt of Rivia,
We shall see next episode..
The child will never happen because the books just wont go that far after war and I dont see GRRm doing 19 years later like JK Rowling did..
Or the three of them all can survive as well..
Regarding the soundtrack people have been terrible at guessing them ..mhysa and children where considered to be LSH reveal even though those two were so much of uplifting tracks which is oppositie of LsH represents..
And last year it was not been guessed as well…
But this time we know certain events will happen in KL .,ToJ and with dany and with the tracks it’s only proven ..
I don’t think what happens in ToJ or with dany is that much of spoiler people all are expecting it. Only KL and cersei may be the something many will not expecting ..
Ginevra,
You are kidding with those stats right and that too using Brynden blackfish ..
As if anyone expected those result being anything other than that ..
BranTheBlessed,
If anyone must talk about TPTWP AAR where dragons being born …one must read the chapter of dany in AGOt where she is having dragon dreams after rhaego dies ..
Where she is born again as last dragon not only that she is been guided the way by her ancestors to wake the dragon..
And she is the embodiment of three headed dragon that target represent ..
dragonbringer,
All people here are execting it but there are millions of fans who don’t.
19 years from now it’s not something George would do.
They can survive but I don’t know three of them in power rulling like Jon and Daeny with Tyrion. Basically dream ending for many fans and GOT is not know for such a things. It’s not happy ending, because Westeros would be devastated not like it will be roses everywhere but it just something feels off about this.
Deanerys cannot be AA because
(1) AA is a champion chosen by R’hllor- Daenerys has nothing to do with R’hllor as of yet.
(2) AA is supposed to wield a sword and I can’t see Deanerys wielding a stick, let alone a sword.
Whereas Jon is a champion of R’hllor ( along with Beric, who is dead in the books ) and he is very good at sword-play ( a legend according to Ramsay )
I will try, Halfman! I’ll be watching away from home, so I may not be able to.
They’ve been messing with us left and right with Jon’s music. The first part of this particular song is the original Stark theme, which played every time we saw them in season 1 and first made it to the soundtrack as “Goodbye Brother,” which plays when Robb is leaving to go to war in the middle of the night and telling Bran that he is lord of Winterfell in his absence. The final part is the “King of the North” track from season 1 that plays when Robb is first crowned, the second to last scene before Daenerys births her dragons. It get repeatedly played throughout season 2 as the Stark army marches, and the last time we’ve ever heard it that I can remember is their arrival at the Twins in Rains of Castamere, the last march of the Army of the North with Grey Wind leading them and the Tully and Stark banners behind him.
For most of the show, Jon has had different music associated with him, either the Night’s Watch or White Walker leitmotifs, and of course the cave/top of the wall music that they played for his relationship with Ygritte that we last heard as he burned her body next to the weirwood tree north of the wall where the watchmen who hold to the Old Gods swear their vows. Finally, last season they started playing Stark music for Jon and the “Goodbye Brother” theme played as he bled out after being stabbed by his brothers. Then, in this season, he started to get his own music entirely that we’d never heard before. This year, he got his own theme that is similar to the Stark music, but quite a bit more complex. It almost sounds like part of the Schindler’s List soundtrack. You can hear it in “My Watch Has Ended” and the last minute of “Bastard” from the new soundtrack. When he executed the traitors, they also definitely mixed in a Targaryen theme.
BranTheBlessed,
Dany is the bride of fire ..she is simply the one who gave more power to Rhllor and his priests by bringing dragons into the world..
Geralt of Rivia,
We shall see ..too much set up for King and Queen to just have them die..
Maybe tyrion dies since jon and dany would have gained experience..
This all speculation we shall see in 2 years I guess..
BranTheBlessed,
Pretty sure Kinvara said that dragons were gift fron Lord of Light and that she was reborn to remake the world. There is a connection between R’hllor and Daeny. Lightbringer could be dragons and not sword.
dragonbringer,
It’s just too easy. Almost fan driven but don’t see any hint that Jon will be King of Westeros. He could be once his parentage is revealed. Davos and Tormund talk was more likely about next episode KitN probably even tho Queen sounds awesome too. But with no children around, I don’t see Jon as someone willing to be with another woman and then their line would die. With Mel said that Jon could die, I thought he wouldn’t but who knows. George might bring him back to die.
Do you think Jon/Night King showdown is next year, or Season 8?
BranTheBlessed,
It would fit the bill of what we know of the Last Hero. As Nan never gets to tell the rest of the story and Sam’s readings don’t indicate what happened either, we don’t know his ultimate fate either. Assuming of course that The Last Hero is not the same as AAR or TPTWP
BranTheBlessed,
I think Dany will have a choice to make and that choice will involve her children. I agree that it appears to me at this point more likely than Jon will sacrifice himself to kill the NK. I always found the following interesting as it is not an angle brought up in the show at all, but only in the books:
“A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of … he wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything ….”
Don’t know if the resurrected can have children … Not sure of any connection but it does make me feel more for Jon
BranTheBlessed,
I agree except I cast Jon as The Last Hero. Dany can be TPTWP. How AAR fits between the two, I don’t know. Or maybe all three are the same.
Jack Bauer 24,
Season 8. To me this would be the climatic battle. There would be episodes to unravel the remaining threads perhaps. But I don’t see this being the last Episode of Season 7.
Geralt of Rivia
Interesting you mention Kinvara because she also refers to Daenerys not as ‘Azor Ahai’ but ‘the one who was promised who would reshape the World’. Again, falling in line with my previous posts.
AA is very specific to mean the chosen Champion who takes sword against the Others whereas TPtwP refers to a person who changes the World for the good.
I find it hard to believe Deanerys could be AA because we’re into the home stretch of the story and she doesn’t even know about the Others. Jon is the one whose story has largely revolved around the impending fight against them. The show literally screamed ‘Night’s King vs Jon Snow gonna happen!’ in Hardhome episode.
I had to watch on a lo-res computer screen. Finally about to watch on my TV in glorious HD!
Darkrobin
I think the Last Hero could be Bran!
From the book:
‘So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it.’
Eerily familiar to Bran’s story, except he is successful in finding the CotF.
BranTheBlessed,
Yes, that is true, Bran could be. I really hope many of these book questions are resolved in TWOW …
Unfortunately Old Nan was interrupted. We never got to hear what happened to the Last Hero. I give her tales more credence than some. She’s been right more than Maester Luwin.
Haha, Yup, you can see the genius of GRRM right there. Make use of an old storytelling granny to give the readers hints on what may happen in his books and immediately have a supposed knowledgeable character ridicule it… so that we, as readers, don’t take those hints seriously.
Spoilery, yes, but I’d remembered they were doing it in years past, and so when Cersei’s Brain asked, I looked up all the dates. Seasons 1, 3, 4, and 5 were all released exactly 5 days before the finale. I’m not sure why they chose Friday instead of Tuesday this year, but I’m happy to get it early.
Most definitely not this season, even if the Wall comes down.
Darkrobin,
BranTheBlessed,
Last hero is a tale ..
Whereas AAR .,TPTWP and TSWMTW are prophecies about a promised prince mentioned in the ancient prophecy from asshai..
So it makes sense all three are same version of one single prophecy ..a dragon that was promised who will fulfill all three versions..
And there is only one dragon in the story.
And hence why kinvara is used “one who was promised ” combining all three into one ..
I’m so glad you agree!
BranTheBlessed,
Is that what that scene told us..
It was slaughter and ended up with hopelessness
Say NK comes to south of wall now..he will still run through all those in north and all of westeros..
Guess what the next episode ended with dany riding dragon and giving the hope ..
And benioff literally called her chosen one in the inside the scene of that episode ..
My feeling on the fates of Jon and Dany changes over time. I used to think both would die in the end, and I still think this is more likely than both surviving, but now I think it will be Dany who dies and Jon who survives. If there was one character who you would expect to give his/her life to save humanity, it would be Jon. And if there was one character whose story has centered around reclaiming what was his/hers, it is Dany(and Stannis, but we all know that’s not happening). So I figure George will swap those scenarios. Dany will die saving humanity, and Jon, the bastard who never expected to rule or have a family or even a name, will be king. There are hints at this throughout the books with Jon, and even the HOTU vision on the show has Dany approaching the throne, but never reaching it. It just so happens to be covered in Snow…wink,wink.
dragonbringer:
So you think Deanerys who knows absolutely nothing about the Whitewalkers and the Night’s King–and this after 70% of the series has finished– will take central role in the Great war and kill the Night’s King?
Ginevra,
Yeah one of the most hated character against most loved ..
Such a poll without any bias..
I predicted that outcome even before poll ended..
And lots of people are showatchers who thought AAr prophecy refers to jon alone because he is in north and fighting Nk..
And another set of people who will have only jon ..if not jon then there is no prophecy ..
Those who have been wanting him to rise out of funeral pyre suddenly shifted to prophecies dont matter because he didnt..
Debunk the theory with evidence. Not by polls and saying its obvious doesnt cut it either ..
dragonbringer,
Melisandre is calling Jon the ‘one who was promised’ too. Even you have to admit the show is going out of it’s way to present both Jon and Dany as the promised one. Which supports my feeling that both of them are, and so is Bran! The three heads of the dragon! That’s my feeling and I’m sticking to it.
dragonbringer
Essentially you are saying Jon will be the messenger of sort, informing and uniting the realm ( including Deanerys ) against the Others and Deanerys will be the one who takes action and destroys the army of the dead?
Perhaps you are right, she’s the only character who has power enough to stand against the Night’s King. And if as last episode suggested, she has all three dragons doing her bidding now, even the dead army stand no chance against her.
We shall see, I still think Jon is AA and will kill the Night’s King.
dragonbringer
Come on! How can you ignore that Melisandre thought in the books?
‘I ask the Lord to show me Azor Ahai but he only shows Jon Snow’
And you think dany wouldn’t ..
I long believed she will die but now iam starting to doubt myself.
Maybe they both will live..
If you have seen my earlier comments you will see that I believe in jon becoming king …but what else will a blown up kL will be covered with in the winter if not snow..
Did you ever see I speak against Jon cannot be or say he is red herring like others saying of dany..
I will be OK with jon being the one as well just have to see it than people coming up with all this thoeries..
Did she called him one who was promised…as far as I remember she called him Prince who was was promised..
Iam sticking to my theory that dany is three headed dragon as well after all last episode did show dany controlling three of them..
But I will be sure only after next season ends..
BranTheBlessed,
Its notwhat i believe its what the show and books have shown and told us..
Take HOTu dany goes north of the wall in the books.
Take HoTU in books dany and drogon fights a corrupted blue heart surrounded by undead( heart of winter is blue )..
Its still too early to predict what roles will individual play ..
But yes dany and jon and bran will be central..
BranTheBlessed,
I don’t think she will kill the NK. I do think she has a significant role to play in the Great War to Come.
That night she dreamt she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be.
Darkrobin:
Ofcourse she’s got to play a prominent role, she’s got to take care of the hundreds of thousands of wights. That’s why she has the three WMD’s. But the ‘Champion’ fight will, IMO, involve R’hllor’s Champion Jon face off against Night’s King with a sword in hand, just as Azor Ahai is prophesied to be.
Posters on this site have presented amazing amounts of evidence for Jon being AAR: he’s both ice and fire when no one else is, all Mel sees is Snow when she asks to see AAR; Jon has been reborn and even directors and producers referred to that as his rebirthing scene; Marwyn pretty much calls Dany a red herring; the book literally calls Dany AAR loudly and often which would be a ridiculous spoiler if she actually were whereas Jon’s contingency for being a prince was intended to be only obvious in retrospect, as GRRM has hinted over and over and over; GRRM implies that this theory spoiler is crucial to the endgame; and Dany is not hated by almost all on here, but Jon is certainly more beloved because George wrote him that way, because we need to love our heroes to love our story.
I’m sure I’ve just touched the tip of the iceberg, but rehashing the evidence you’ve already seen gets old, doesn’t it? You’ve seen all the best arguments before, as have the majority of posters here. Those who could be swayed have already been, as was reflected in the poll results which is why I quoted them. Those who refuse to be swayed by reason and by evidence will never be swayed, no matter what I say, no matter what hundreds of others say, and no matter what the evidence.
But time will tell.
BranTheBlessed,
For starters she sees dany’s dragons andmeereen when she asks for AA..winged shadow and blue skies all refer to drogon on meereen ..jon appears only after she specifically asks for his sister and thinks about him ..
in the the next chapter we see Mel and jon talk where she tells stannis is AAr because he was lord of dragonstone a place amidst salt and smoke
and jon correctly thinks that Mel is wrong because stannis never was born there he was only lord of the dragonstone..unlike jon we know who was born there ..and is it a coincidence that stannis became lord if drgonstine after dany left the place ( slayer of lie )..
I will say this jon may or may not be AAR but that doesn’t negate dany because she has already fulfilled all parts of it ..its only a question of she Alone is AAr or jon along with her ..
dragonbringer
For me, Jon’s story is quite clear.
From the moment he burns that Wight in Mormont’s chambers, his story becomes intertwined in humanity’s fight against WW’s. Mormont realizes this and gives Jon his Longclaw to aid him. Then most of Jon’s actions, especially after becoming Lord Commander, are driven with thoughts of the great war in mind. He brings back the Wildlings to the realm for this reason alone and pays with his life.
R’hollor’s fight is against the great Other, darkness. And in many ways unknown to Jon, he was R’hollor’s greatest servant, fighting his war. Its why R’hollor brings back Jon.
Jon is R’hollor’s Champion aka Azor Ahai. Now we see him uniting the North against the Others, continuing to serve his purpose.
BranTheBlessed,
We do agree in that I believe Jon will slay the NK. If that makes him AAR then Jon is AAR .
dragonbringer
Like I said earlier, I don’t think AAR and TPtwP are different parts of the same prophecy. They are related but not the same. One character won’t fulfill both of them.
BranTheBlessed,
Since you used mel’s quote …what can you say about this following quotes from ADWD and ASoS ..
This was jon reading about AAr fighting a monster with his Light bringer notice how the monster dies..
And this is from ASoS where dany kills kraznys using drogon..
Notice how he dies ..
A word for word match
And there is things like a sword that can make their own fire which is essentially a dragon who is fire made flesh …and this dragons is tempered with the blood of her husband .
What do you think of this quote .
dragonbringer
Has it been established that fire can kill a Whitewalker? We saw Night’s King just walk over the circle of fire that the CoTF lit up.
BranTheBlessed,
Its ordinary he walks through..
But take what is been used to kill the WW so far ..
Dragon glass
Dragon steel
And don’t you think a dragon with its dragon fire can do the job..
There is another one who can walk through fire but controls the fire breathing dragons..
In all this debate of who’ll get the pleasure of killing the Night’s King, we have not given much thought to Bran. What power does the new Three eyed Raven possess? Must be something threatening to the WW’s cause the 3ER’s the only opponent the Night’s King has taken seriously so far.
Benjen bigged it up as well: “When the Night’s King finds his way to the world, you’ll be there waiting for him and you’ll be ready”
dragonbringer
Maybe. So the final battle will be between Dragons and Whitewalkers, magic against magic, fire against ice.
BranTheBlessed,
It is ..
But I think each with have individual role ..I believe…
For example dany may simply ride to heart of winter and burn down the place using drogon while jon fights NK ..
We still don’t know the details but what we know is prophecy is fulfilled by dany and she is not a red herring …
We have to wait for more details am afraid ..
A dragon is a sword in the same way a kraken is a trebuchet. One’s inanimate, non-animal, non-moving, not that enormous. And the other is, well, different in almost every possible way.
These quotes remind me that have seen a flaming sword that burned clean through the Hound’s wooden shield and then burned the Hound, so I’m thinking the flames of this sword are hot. Of course, to the best of our knowledge Beric only got this magic flaming sword ability after he went through exactly what Jon went through. And note how Beric kickstarts the flame with only a tiny bit of his own blood. I can’t wait until Jon discovers that happens.
Isaac said he thinks Bran will play the role of kingmaker. The maker of the tools AAR needs to defeat the NK. I’m sure he’s also play the spymaster.
Ahhhhhh… finally… a viewer numbers article that actually matters.
You say this And keep ignoring the fact that same producers and directors called dany’s rebirth scene as well and they have already called her chosen one ..
Literally almost all the scenes that jon gets is people saying its like dany .its similar to dany..
Jon having dany’s pyre moment .,jon having mhysa moment..
Y ignore this portion but only chose what you want to hear..
For someone who they think red herring like you say marwyn and sarella seems to be focused on dany very strongly ..
Ah right the same old argument she can’t be the one because she is been called as AAr in the fifth book but its not a problem if jon gets called out as AAr in the sixth book…whereas one actually fulfilled the prophecies and another did not..
All I have seen is how jon is the one with presenting every thing as salt and smoke ..
I have yet to see anyone actually come up with something to say how dany is red herring and dany can’t be the one besides the same old arguments that its too obvious and she gets called AAR outloud ..
No one seems to have a problem when Mel calls jon straight to his face whereas dany doesn’t know it..
How is that not ridiculous..
If you mean presenting evidence and sawaying people to dany side ..iam proud that numbers increased for dany after the debate I had in that thread …
I expected nothing more than that ..
If that was something related to jon I know how the response would have been..
So about the sword that can create his own fire and felt warm always and used the blood of his wife all goes out of the window because jon doesn’t have a dragon..
So after all the talk about prophecy can’t be that literal and so dany can’t be the one… We just have to have literally flaming sword..
People can say ice and fire all they want ..
But the fact is he has shown nothing of fire side and never will be ..
The fire actually belongs to someone who is having rebirths after rebirths in the fire ..
There is a reason why almost no mention of Rhaegar in the jon ‘s story ..because he has nothing of rhaegar in him but he is constantly compared to lyanna..
But you know who actually has been called as rhaegar its dany..
So yeah I would accept dany as fire and jon as fire ..
So you can’t remove dany from prophecy just like that as red herring when she actually fulfills everyone of them and actually has rebirths and called as chosen one by producers and directors..
Ginevra,
You jumped at the mention of Hitler when speaking about dany. You again jumped at the mention of mad king this episode. Even though it was there because to foreshadowe what’s coming in next episode..
But why don’t you speak about the same producers calling dany as chosen one at the end of dance of dragons episode.. Why don’t you speak about them saying dany is fulfilling the prophecy at the end of mhysa episode..
Why don’t you speak about the drogo’s funeral pyre which they and GRRm say as dany’s rebirth as dragon and birth of dragons ..
Why don’t you speak about them saying damy having a rebirth in fire while jon like dany had rebirth in ice after the episodes of 3&4 this season..
People calling dany as AAR in 5.03 is stupid thing and can’t be that obvious..but calling jon straight to his face as one in 6.03 is not
Is there anyother reason other than the obvious bias ..
This is westeros.org all over again ..there were posters I respected like apple and tze but those were blinded so much by their jon fanboyism that they can’t see the importance of other characters in the story or stand against the thought of having another character equally important and heroic as jon..
Iam saying this as the nicest way possible and not wanting to sound to rude at all and it makes me sad ..
Will jon be a part of prophecy ..he may very well be..
But that doesn’t negate dany anyway and she is not red herring because both books and show continues to give us clues and foreshadowing of her fulfilling prophecies and have prophetic moments across all five books and will be im the following books as well and six seaosns ..
Maybe iam just a blind fanatic who came with a dumb theory that dragons are lightbringer ..
And we can ignore things like.:
The above mentioned quote of 1)AAR’s tale and Dany killing kraznys..
2) they are actually called as FLAMING SWORD above the world in the books..
3) they have been tempered with the blood of her husband (,reversing the role of gender) .
4) and how they seem to be warm like nissa nissa had been ..how drogons warm reminds her of drogo’s .
5)how they make their own fire like the tales tells us ..
6 ) and how they are literally pulled from fire under the bleeding star like the prophecy says..
But you know who else compares those dragons to magical sword GRRM himself ..
So maybe he himself wrong ..
And speaking of heroes .when I said dany is most hated…she is the most hated among the main characters not because GrRm made her unlikable but because endless trolling and vitriolic actions of certain fandoms who feel threatened..
That’s actually second time GRRm as used aragorn when speaking about dany and he clearly calls her hero ..and dont forget he released her chapters has separate novella which had gotten him an Hugo..
dragonbringer,
And you didn’t say a word about how the producers said that
Dany is not her father and not mad and not sadistic ..
But very eager to point the mad king and Hitler stuffs while ignoring this ..
dragonbringer
You forget one very important thing though. AA became the ‘Chosen one’ DURING the Long Night. AAR prophecy also states the same
‘According to prophecy, in ancient books of Asshai from over five thousand years ago, Azor Ahai is to be reborn again to challenge the Others. This will occur after a long summer when an evil, cold darkness descends upon the world.It is said that wielding Lightbringer once again, Azor Ahai will stand against the Others and if he fails, the world fails with him’
Deanerys birthed her Dragons BEFORE summer ended. And Drogo’s blood wasn’t forged with dragons, Drogo was already dead when he was put to flame!
The sacrificial blood that Deanerys used was Mirri Maz Dur’s. Cannot be compared to Azor Ahai’s sacrifice of his wife.
BranTheBlessed,
I don’t know why my comment is not appearing I typed a long response and send it three times and not appearing..
Its Frustrating
Anyways
BranTheBlessed,
The rebirth of dany as dragon and birth of dragons happened right after long summer ended ..
There is a reason why GRRm made dany and drogo call each other as sun and stars and moon of my life ..he reversed the gender ..
The three lives that took for the dragons birth are drogo .,viserys and rhaego..hence why they are named after them..
MMD was nearly a ingredient..
Read the chapter after dany gets into the tent where dany dreams waking as a dragon and have the visions of both viserys and rhaego dying and a voice keep saying wake the dragons …
Anyone who says drogo is not in drogon can’t be serious..
Again wrong ..the hatching of dragons happens right after the long summer ended….remember ACOK starts with the telling of end of long summer ..and darkness as descended already like we saw WW appear in prologue of AGOt and in the epilogue of AGOT after the long summer ends dany births dragons..aka lightbtingers..
Hence why we Mel preaching that moment uses stannis to draw the sword from fire because she knew she has bleeding star and long summer ended..
But she didn’t know that they are there for someone names dany..
From quaithe to moqorro all speak about how dany is in danger of darkness
In the same dream chapter dany runs from the ice cold darkness to find a door where hee ancestors guide her way and tell her to wake the dragon..which she does and flies out of that dark room as last dragon.
Again all the answers are there in that chapter from AGOT..
Let’s just put it this way and its simple this way..
You say AAR champiom of fire and dany can’t be fire champion ..but let’s look at the points..
Who is unburnt – the one who cant be hurt by fire
Who is mother of dragons – birthed and rides fire breathing dragons ..
Who is bride of fire and three fires she must light one for life one for dead and one for love..
Whose magic has increased the power of Magic all around the world ..wildfire alchemist and fire Maege from qarth and increased power in Rhllor all are evidence to this ..
So you say now if she can’t be champion of fire who else can.
Checking
U made the same long reply and listed it three times but its not appearing
BranTheBlessed,
Dany birthed dragons and reborn as dragon when the long summer ended ..
We see this in prologue of ACOK that long summer ended..
Darkness already began falling in prologue of AGOT and dany birthed dragons at the end of AGOt when long summer ended..
The lives that made into dragons are viserys and rhaego and drogo ..MMd is just a ingredient if you will..
You can see all this in that chapter of dany where she dreams about waking the dragon and fly out as dragon ..
You see moqorro and quaithe talk about how dany is in danger from the darkness..
And in that dream chapter in AGOT she runs from the darkness and wanting to find the door ..her ancestors guide her through and tell her to wake the dragon…she does and fly out of that darkness as a dragon..
It’s all there in the AGOt dany’s second last chapter ..
There is a reason why GRRM had dany and drogo call each other as sun and stars and moon of my life ( nissa nissa),..he reversed the genders in the tale..
BranTheBlessed,
You say AAR champiom of fire and dany can’t be fire champion ..but let’s look at the points..
Who is unburnt – the one who cant be hurt by fire
Who is mother of dragons – birthed and rides fire breathing dragons ..
Who is bride of fire and three fires she must light one for life one for dead and one for love..
Whose magic has increased the power of Magic all around the world ..wildfire alchemist and fire Maege from qarth and increased power in Rhllor all are evidence to this ..
So you say now if she can’t be champion of fire who else can.
If you want more details about dany being AAr and TPTWp .. Please check out the thread I started in TV DIscussion thread ..titled dany is three headed dragon..
Its very long but I have put all the clues and foreshadowing from the books and answered all this questions…
If you have free time please read it.
BranTheBlessed,
It seems finally my messages are appearing …
Its a shame my long post got lost and it ended up being two short ones..
Here’s the link if you want to check outhttps://watchersonthewall.com/topic/book-and-show-spoilers-dany-is-the-three-headed-dragon/.
I believe I would have answered all your questions in there .
dragonbringer
Nice write-up but I just can’t believe that this story will end up with one character being the Ultimate Hero. By your theories, Deanerys is everything-AAR, TSTMTW, TPTWP, Champion of R’hollor etc.
Essentially making every other character including Jon( who has actually actively played a big role against the Others, unlike Deanerys who doesn’t know what an Other is ) glorified water carriers, waiting for the savior Deanerys to swoop in last minute and save humanity. You can see why this doesn’t sound too appealing for many fans.
You mentioned Deanerys’ dream sequence and how she then goes on to make them come true. Is it so hard to consider that something similar may happen with Jon Snow?
Strictly speaking books: He is going to be re-born and I found it curious that the last dream he sees before he dies had him wielding a ‘blade that burned red to slay the dead’. Like it or not, that’s the closest match we’ve got with AA description, certainly beats assumptions of Dragons=Lightbringer theory.
BranTheBlessed,
Thank you the whole point of that thread was just to show much evidence is there for dany and she cant be just brushed aside as red herring just like that..
Will jon fulfill and be part of prophecy ..he may very well be we have to see it happen yet ..
Its just simple as this ..
Dany as fulfilled prophecies in the books.
Jon so far only fulfilled in fan theories ..
He may fulfill them in coming book but he will only become another one along side dany regarding prophecies..
You mention about dany being all one …and yes i can clearly understand how that will feel for many…But its not something i set up to write but after pulling all the points from the books all fell into a place and made sense for me…
One thing about the dany’s clues and foreshadowings most come from AdWD as well ..why bother with clues and foreshadowings that later in the books..
But that’s exactly what happens in ADWd…jon keeps wondering how nice it would have been to have dragons at wall..
Sam telling marwyn about dany so marwyn goes to dany ..
What role and how big role hon had played till now againat others…
Sam is the only one that killed WW remember..
Jon will play abig role no doubt about that but he doesn’t need to have prophecy to do that or fulfill and become another chosen one along side dany..
Regarding dream of jon and how close it is well like I said he knows about prophecy so its not surprising about the details..
Whateever happens dany is not red herring
dragonbringer,
Dany is the chosen one. She’s obviously been chosen for some great purpose. “Chosen one” isn’t the same as “one that was promised” or “prince that was promised” or “Azor Ahai.” As for who that is, time will tell.
Agreed, you are right about this.
By the way, I compared the two prophecies word by word and it throws out interesting points
First one, Melisandre saying to Jon Snow: ‘When the red star bleeds and darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake the dragons from stone’
Second one: ‘There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him’
Aside from the fact that Azor Ahai is commonly mentioned, notice how they are totally different.
(1) First one talks about a particular red star ( Singular ) bleeding while second one talks of stars bleeding ( No color of star and plural )
(2) First one mentions ‘when darkness gathers’, I think it refers to ending of summer/ beginning of winter. Whereas second one explicitly says ‘ When cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world’ possibly referencing a time when winter is fully upon the World. Timeline yet to happen in the story.
(3) First prophecy has dragons as the weapon of the savior whereas second prophecy mentions a flaming sword.
When you look at these, its pretty clear Deanerys has already fulfilled the first prophecy while the second is yet to happen.
BranTheBlessed,
It could be and interesting way you have come up with this..
But I always took it has Mel loosly telling whats written in the books of asshai..
Why because i never believe jon will pull something out of fire or rise out fire in the books and show only added confidence in my belief..
We shall see