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Absolutely nothing of interest happened on this episode of Game of Thrones. It was a pretty average, garden-variety epis- WHO ARE WE KIDDING?! THAT WAS AMAZING! Just click the button, and get to reading!
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section will contain spoilers from the novels! Because no, we are not all Unsullied now. If you haven’t read the books yet, please check out our non-book-reader recap. Thanks!
After that finish tonight, it’s tempting to forget anything else even happened in “Home,” or that it was a very strong episode even before the Worst-Kept Secret Ever came to a satisfying end with the resurrection of Jon Snow. So I’m going to resist the temptation to cackle with mindless glee just yet, and dive into the earlier portions of Game of Thrones’ second episode of the year to give those scenes their just due.
The beginning of the episode was almost as striking as the conclusion, kicking off with the long-awaited return of Bran Stark (Isaac Hempstead Wright), who has been studying the use of his powers under the Three-Eyed Raven during his absence from the show. They haven’t done anything to improve the makeup and prosthetic work on the Three-Eyed Raven since we last saw him in season 4, but I don’t really care when Max von Sydow is onscreen.
Through Bran’s visions, we’re treated to a flashback of happier times in Winterfell, seeing young Ned (Sebastian Croft) and little Benjen Stark (Matteo Elezi) and their tomboyish sister Lyanna (Cordelia Hill). Surprisingly, we also see a very young Hodor (Sam Coleman) – or “Wyllis,” as he was called back then when he could speak without impairment. The vision is warm and delightful, but the Three-Eyed Raven pulls Bran from it, warning him, “If you stay too long, you’ll drown.”
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There’s another new face in the cave- a new actress, Kae Alexander, has taken on the role of Leaf, the Child of the Forest. I’m happy to see Game of Thrones has improved the makeup for the Children this season.
We check in with Meera Reed outside the cave; she’s less enchanted with the scenery and watching Bran roll around the floor having visions, but Leaf reassures her that Meera is needed.
Down at the Wall, the situation has grown more dire for Davos and the men trapped inside the room with Jon Snow’s corpse. Alliser Thorne is sending in his Night’s Watchmen, when finally the cavalry arrives. And by that, I mean Wun Wun busts down the gates, and smears the walls with that one guy who was dumb enough to mess with him. Edd, Tormund, and the wildlings have toppled Thorne’s regime with a minimum of fuss, and the murdering mutineers are imprisoned.
The only surprising thing is that I think everyone expected Thorne’s party to get more butchered than this. It could’ve been a loose end neatly snipped, but now that’s something the show will have to deal with at the Wall in the coming episodes.
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In King’s Landing, FrankenMountain is on the prowl for losers who besmirch Cersei’s name with raunchy stories in town. Tommen has proved to be tough at all the wrong times, and is forcing Cersei to remain inside the Red Keep, though Myrcella’s body lies in the Great Sept of Baelor. The young king is realizing how deeply he disappoints his mother, who raised him to be strong. Like his sister, he’s intrinsically good-hearted, but he lacks Myrcella’s strength of will. Tommen is a lovely young man, but a bad king.
The specter of Cersei’s Walk of Atonement hangs over the Lannisters still. Tommen didn’t try to stop it and Jaime wasn’t there at all, and the High Sparrow’s presence now in the sept is a challenge of sorts.
The High Sparrow’s arrogance is on full display when he tangles with Jaime Lannister in the sept. For a man who claims humility, there is not a trace of it when he looks the Kingslayer up and down with the smug knowledge that his Faith Militant would tear Jaime apart if he attacked the High Sparrow. He’s correct, the masses are strong together. But they’re a mob, and a mob can be manipulated easily to turn against their leader. The High Sparrow’s come-uppance will happen.
After visiting the sept, Tommen finally faces his mother and apologizes for not saving her. As always, Cersei loves and forgives her children, no matter their crimes and failings.
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You probably shouldn’t make so many no-cock jokes around an army of eunuchs trained in top-notch murdering, Tyrion. I’m just saying.
Popping over to Meereen for our weekly dose of Essosi politics that no one ever really asks for, Tyrion realizes the dragons need tending to.
Considering how starving the dragons should be, since they haven’t eaten in days, I’m shocked they don’t rip Tyrion in two when he approaches their dungeon for a visit and introduces himself as a friend of their mother’s. Perhaps there’s something to all those Tyrion-has-Targaryen-blood theories? In the show, anyway. Whole new ballgame, people.
I did love Tyrion sharing the story of how he wanted a dragon as a child, using his early fondness for the creatures as a way to get close to them- and unchain them, so they’ll thrive even without their mother.
Arya the Blind Beggar is paid another visit from the ever-pleasant Waif but their one-sided stickfight is brief, and the Faceless (Wo)man disappears. Jaqen H’ghar (well, No One really) steps in to offer Arya a chance for this all to stop when he asks who she is, testing her identity, but she remains resolute: she is No One.
Satisfied by her response, Jaqen tells she’s done being a beggar and invites her back to continue her next phase of training. And thank God, because this Daredevil-Stick routine was wearing on me.
Remember last week when I wondered if it was a bad idea for Roose to threaten Ramsay with the existence of a new Bolton heir? (I think everyone thought that, to be fair.) Yeah that didn’t work out too well for Roose this week. Or that well for Walda and her newborn baby, either.
Roose, Ramsay and the new Lord Karstark (Paul Rattray) are dealing with the current Northern situation when they’re interrupted by the news of the baby’s birth. Ramsay acts quickly, killing his father and sending for Roose’s wife. Karstark is on board with the New Bolton Order as he witnesses the murder and doesn’t bat an eye.
Walda and the new baby are horrifyingly dispatched through the use of Ramsay’s favorite weapons- his dogs.
Still freezing in the Northern woods, Sansa and Brienne share news of Arya. Finally Sansa knows that her sister is alive! Not dressed like a lady, of course. The fond smile on Sansa’s face brings tears to my eyes. The sense of Stark is strong with this episode.
Sansa and Theon share a touching moment, as he plans to say goodbye. They’ll be heading north to the Wall, to Jon, and she doesn’t need him now that she has Brienne. Theon acknowledges all the terrible things he’s done, and announces that it’s time for him to go home.
The thought of these two parting is oddly bittersweet. As much as Sansa hated him, he was a familiar face when she was in the middle of hell, and they escaped it together. I wish I could see more of their scenes together, but now it’s time to part ways.
Speaking of Theon’s home- on Pyke in the Iron Islands, Yara Greyjoy and her father Balon debate their next move; the Ironborn have lost their last territory on the mainland, but Balon is stubborn. Angry with his daughter, the last of the Five Kings departs and heads for the rope bridge that strings between the towering structures of the islands. Yes, it’s time for Melisandre’s final leech to pay off.
Through the rain, a mysterious figure approaches. At this point, I actually scoot forward on the edge of my seat. I’ve been waiting for this one, and Patrick Malahide and Pilou Asbæk knocked this scene out of the park.
Euron Greyjoy has come home to the Iron Islands.
Balon’s wayward younger brother has come for him, and Balon knows it. The king manages to cut his brother’s face before Balon is thrown from the bridge to his death.
His body is found the next day, much to Yara’s grief. His people send him to his rest at sea, in their way. Who will rule the Iron Islands now that Balon Greyjoy is dead? Aeron, the Drowned Priest (played by Michael Feast), declares only a kingsmoot can determine who rules.
At the Wall, Davos pleads for Melisandre’s help. He’s seen her incredible (and frankly, fucking terrifying) powers before, and is at his wit’s end- they need Jon Snow back. He dismisses the gods (funny enough, the ones all featured in this episode- the Seven gods, tree gods, and the Drowned god), and asks for a miracle.
These two have been fighting for years but at this point, they know each other better than anyone else. Melisandre has lost faith in herself, but seeing Davos’ faith in her is enough to energize the heartbroken and drained priestess to try one more time to make a difference.
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Melisandre prepares Jon’s body, and we see the damage is extensive. She lays hands on him, surrounded by all those who are desperate to believe in this, in her and in Jon. Davos, Edd, Tormund, Ghost.
But it fails. The moment passes, and Jon lies cold and white, dead on the table.
Davos is the last person to leave the room, gazing down at Jon- he’s the last to give up.
The stillness of Jon Snow is uncanny, and transfixing. We’re waiting for it. Is it going to happen?
Ghost, lying on the ground, stirs.
We hover over Jon, waiting. And waiting. And then it happens.
Jon Snow’s eyes fly open and he gasps with life.
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Assorted thoughts because my brain’s too melted by the episode to function very well:
The flashback: Fantastic casting all-around. I love the kids. And was that meant to be a young Ser Rodrik training them?
VIP: I’m giving Carice van Houten the acting VIP award of the night. She’s done such amazing work over the last two episodes.
You can breathe now, Kit: The jig is up. Looking forward to the interviews where you tell everyone to go to hell for #HairWatch. I did screech a bit when Melisandre started snipping off Jon’s hair, actually.
Welcome Home: Fantastic to see you all again, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Ellie Kendrick, Kristian Nairn, Patrick Malahide, and Gemma Whelan! And welcome to the all new cast members! Especially…
Euron “I am the storm” Greyjoy: he is a very bad man, and I can’t wait to see what’s in store this season with Pilou Asbæk.
The deaths: I wasn’t surprised by any of them, since they were long overdue (Balon’s leech must’ve been defective) or the groundwork was laid for them effectively (Roose and Walda). But I thought the scenes were all very well done, from the dramatic confrontation in the storm, to Ramsay’s last cold moment with his father, to poor Walda and her doomed baby.
About that ending?: Yeah, we knew he was going to come back but the how and when were still question marks. I jumped like it was a horror movie, both times that I watched the episode this evening. I probably will every time, the way it’s drawn out to maximize the tension and the uncertainty. I can’t wait to see how Jon behaves after returning. There is so much going on, I can’t wait until the next episode of Game of Thrones!
One of the best episodes of the series, hands down.
JON SNOW
hodor!
thank you to the GoT cast for such commitment to keep us guessing. even though it was somewhat overplayed, it made the reveal that much more worthwhile. the alternate of telling us the truth was undoubtedly much worse …
Cannot WAIT for the EW exclusive. Kit, you can come out from under that rock.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/01/game-thrones-recap-home
Wyllis?
I agree. Who would have thought Hodor’s name was Willis. 🙂
The CotF in this episode did not really look like a child. Good episode anyway. Just nitpicking.
The Stark children were perfectly cast. I loved the line with the shield (that Jon also used in season 5 I think). Lyanna was lovely and lively!
So happy my prediction came true and Jon came back this episode. I can’t wait to see all the reactions next episode. I’m guessing Sansa makes it to Castle Black in episode 3 or 4.
Everyone in Bloodraven’s hair salon got makeovers. He’s like the Tyra Banks of Westeros.
Top 10 episode…maybe even Top 5.
Lost in the big moments is so many of the great quiet ones. I think my favorite was Sansa’s inability to tell Brienne about her rape at Winterfell. Sophie and Gwendoline knocked this out of the park.
We’ll see what the rest of the season brings, but this episode could be Top 10 material.
Haha, love the open “nothing much happen….who are we kidding”. Thanks for uploading quickly, might need to do a second recap
Still collecting my thoughts
Clear to see a theme about Wo5K ending, Balon and Roose/Walda dying. Between Ellaria, Ramsay and now rez-Jon there is a clear sign of “Bastard power” to go with “Girl power” of last week. But in this case they are all moving out of the previous rulers shadow, eg Ellaria regarding Doran, Ramsay regarding Roose and Jon Snow regarding Robb, Euron regarding Balon
– whom Karstark mentioned in the same scene as “there needs to be new blood in the North” where the Glovers retaking Deepwood Motte (will admit to “hooray” they will help House Forrester against House Whitehill in the future Games) was a kind of twin
Holds true for all 3 of Jon, Ramsay, Euron
So much to dissect
Absolutely loved the Flashback though
Just re watched…. only thing that could have made Jon’s revival better is if it happened while Davos was still in the room. He turns around and sees him gasping.. “Wow. This bitch is no joke.”
Mel is no fuckin joke!!
ToJ’!!+!!!!!!!!!!
Wun Wun!!!!!!
Bran!!!!!!
LYANNA!!!!!
Benjen!!!!!!
Rickard!!!!!!
Ned!!!!!!!
HODOR!!!!!!
Beyond the Wall (B+): The flashback was cute, if not overly substantial, and Meera’s depressed state was nicely conveyed (the most personality I’ve gotten from that character to date). Not earthshaking, but fine. I’m glad the Children of Forest’s look has been made more otherworldly between seasons (even if Bloodraven has conversely become even more ordinary-looking).
The Wall (B): I liked the almost deliberately anticlimactic resolution to Thorne’s mutiny; he goes with a whimper, in the end. As I said over in the Open Chat thread, though, Davos’ role in these events just doesn’t make any sense to me based on what we’ve previously seen of this character. He’s barely interacted with Jon, doesn’t believe in Azor Ahai or anything of the sort, and has never wanted anything to do with Mel’s magic, and now he’s trying to talk Mel into bringing Jon back to life? Like, I get that Davos comprehends that they’re in a bad spot, but this just doesn’t flow from anything they’d previously set up about the character. If this is where they wanted to take things, I really think the writers made a mistake by not sending Davos to Hardhome last season. For such an absolutely crucial plot beat, this feels misplayed to me.
The North (A-): Quiet, but very nice dialogues between Sansa/Brienne and Sansa/Theon. I wasn’t sure how plausible Theon’s heading back to the Iron Islands would be, but this made it work. Sansa struggling to verbalize what happened was also a powerful moment. Brienne talking about Arya traveling with “a man” was quite an awkward bit of contorted dialogue though (no doubt the writers needing to keep that conversation on track).
Winterfell (A-): Walda walking around like that immediately after giving birth really took me out of her final scene, otherwise good. I’ll miss Michael McElhatton.
Braavos (B-): Much like last week, it’s there, I guess? Arya barely spent any time blind onscreen, and while in one sense it’s good to keep the plot progressing, it doesn’t feel like much was accomplished with all this (and those Arya stans desperate for her to warg must have a painful case of blue balls by this point).
The Iron Islands (A-): Liked Yara’s return, and Euron’s intro was pretty decent.
King’s Landing (B-): Other than the Jaime/High Sparrow scene, which was very nice, I could have done without the rest of the KL stuff here.
Meereen (B+): I’m really, really sick of the ‘witty’ characters like Tyrion constantly mocking the eunuchs for being castrated; it’s repetitive and not funny. On to the main event, proto-dragontaming, I’m reserving judgement on all this. The dragons have seemed weirdly controllable both here and in their last Season 5 appearance where Dany seemed to be easily able to get them to BBQ the people she wanted without risking those she didn’t, which just raises the issue of why they’re locked up in the first place.
Ben Stein Stark,
Not me, since in the book it’s Walder.
Ben Stein Stark,
It’s actually Walder in the books.
I will be characteristically brief:
This episode restored my faith in the TV series.
I…I felt healed.
That is all.
(With shout outs to 1 – entire Iron Islands sequence, 2 – Lyanna Stark, 3 – improved Children of the Forest design)
Meh…if I had to rename this episode it would be anti-climactic. Lot of things happened that were predicted almost to a tee before the season started.
-Did Ramen Djwadi take this episode off? A strangely silent episode.
-Tyrion scene was good, but my goodness, stop using “punch in the face”, that’s a contemporary phrase, seems like the intern wrote that
-Ramsey killing Roose was terrible, just totally what was expected and lame. Is Roose that much of a loser that no one was loyal to him and Ramsey can just do that to him and the army will support it? And he says to tell everyone he was poisoned, then he goes and kills baby and Walda in full view of everyone?
-Davos motivation to ressurect Jon = ? He’s so hell bent on doing it that he doesn’t care if the Red Woman, whom he hates with a passion, uses blood magic to revive some guy he just met? After he’s suspicious that Mel either killed or got Shireen killed, and all of their history??? Seems like a pretty big about face.
-Oh really it never occurred to Mel to try and resurrect him?
I think the Bran flashback at Winterfell was the best thing about the episode and it was all down from there. A slow, plodding episode that felt like a middle episode of the season, with some big events that were anti-climactic.
“Wyllis” is how HBO spelled it on the email I got from them tonight with all the episode’s photos, so that is probably the correct spelling, yeah.
I fucking loved that episode. That is all. Euron!!! Jon Snow!!! Oh my Lord of Light!!!
Can this not be a John Locke scenario where he comes back and we are all happy like in lost. But it turns out he’s the real bad guy in the end. Also. Waiting for freaking years on this makes it so sweet.
Lol, Mel desecrated Jon Snows hair – sacrilege!
In all seriousness though she once again acted that scene brilliantly, she seemed so distraught in her eyes
This was a seriously great episode, I think it might be my new favorite; or at least pretty close to thetop. As concerned as I am about the pacing of the show (still a valid concern!), they’re really stepping up so far this season. I hope it continues with this momentum. And that gasp, it was perfect. I was waiting for it and anticipating it and it still caught me by surprise.
Also, Lyanna was perfect. It needs to be said. The actress hit just the right beats.
What shield line?
I’ve now seen the episode twice. Somehow, it was even better on the second viewing. God damn, I’m shaking. I still can’t form fully coherent thoughts.
Jon’s alive! We saw young Ned, young Benjen, young Hodor … and Lyanna! Jon’s alive! Roose, Walda, and Balon are all dead (cue up three more Curtain Calls)! Jon’s alive! The Children of the Forest have a new look, and it’s freaking awesome! Jon’s alive! Tyrion unchained the dragons! Jon’s alive! Jaime confronted the High Sparrow! Jon’s alive! Euron Greyjoy is the first storm and the last! Jon’s alive! The Mountain crushed some fool’s skull as a joke! Oh, and something else … it’s on the tip of my tongue … oh yes. JON’S ALIVE!
This episode may be an all-time great for a show that has many, many, many such hours. And it’s Episode 2! We’ve got eight more of these! AND we’re getting the Tower of Joy next week!
I have no idea how I’m going to sleep after watching that, but I’d better find a way, because I’ve got a long day ahead of me that will be dedicated almost solely towards appreciating this episode. I’m getting no work done tomorrow, and that’s just fine with me.
Take a bow, Dave Hill. And David Benioff and Dan Weiss. And Bryan Cogman. And everyone else involved in creating this remarkable experience. “Home” was a triumph in every way. And if in the light of dawn I discover that I’m somehow I’m being hyperbolic, I’ll deal with that later. If listening to reason means that I have to come down from this high, then fuck it. I’ll stay up here as long as I can. What’s above Cloud Nine? Cloud Ten? Whatever it is, I’m there right now. I’m in Game of Thrones nirvana, and it’s beautiful beyond words. I never want to leave.
As much as I’ve been expecting it, Roose’s death was sad, and Waaaaaaaaaaaalda! 🙁 I’m going to miss the poor girl.
Also did anyone else get a Jack Harness Revival Feeling from Jon’s wakeup moment?
BARROWMAN!!
What you talking about Wyllis?
Hodor!
Can’t wait to see everyone’s reactions at CB when they see Jon!
Was a great episode but the end seemed so unimpressive. I knew what was going to happen it just didn’t surprise me at all n the scene was so predictable. Finally made me realize the books will be so different that the show truly will not be a spoiler.
I’ve really liked both episodes he’s written. He wrote that memorable Stannis/Shireen scene last year, too.
Moreso than the big events of this episode, I loved how it set up the rest of the season.
(1) Lyanna’s intro was great. I hope we see more of the adult version of her beyond the ToJ.
(2) House Manderly was named. But now that Walda Frey has “died” at Winterfell, will the Freys really be with the Boltons?
(3) We’ll explore how Wylas became Hodor.
(4) Tyrion seems like quite the dragontamer.
(5) We’re getting oh so close to a Stark children reunion.
Jack Bauer 24,
“Shield up, or I’ll ring your head like a bell.”
Ned says this to Benjen, and Jon says it to that potato Olly. Same hand gestures and everything.
Wonder how George feels about the show getting to reveal Jon’s fate first after all these years.
ALMOST a perfect episode. If Wun Wun would have just beaten Olly to death with Thorne (or vise versa, who am I to micromanage) that would have been the most perfect unit of entertainment ever made. I was worried that the episodes this season were coming short of average but holy shit…it’s like realizing it’s the best Christmas you’ve ever had and there are still 8 presents under the tree with your name on them.
I wonder what this means for a lot of theories out there. Tyrion Targ theory, for one. But Jon = AA is another affected. There was no smoke, no salt, no rising out of the flames, no bleeding star.
Me too!! I hope the first scene opens with Jon getting up like in the episode preview.
Henry Gordon,
I think people might have been confused if they kept it as Walder.
At the risk of sounding like a fuck boy/ dick head, I fucking knew it! On Jon’s resurrection I mean. I had a feeling that at the latest it would be the beginning of episode four that Jon would return with the ending of this episode being the earliest.
So happy with this episode overall.
Yeah this is fair points, there’s no mind-screw twists, it all happened in fairly straightforward ways, whereas the outcome while predictable should have been unexpected in how it occurred
But for mine this simply reflects how GRRM is a master level writer,
Tbf though I expected this to start going in a “Crasters Keep” direction once they ran out of direct material
This is where it was good that GRRM was writing some episodes, if they were going to put so many important plot points in this episode, especially the all-important one, he should have been the one to write it as he would have put a nice twist to it all. Especially if he wasn’t going to finish WoW on time
That all said, the writing performance may have been below par by the lofty standards set, but the acting in so many scenes was fantastic, Jaimie and HS, the flashback actors, Cersei/Tommen, Melisandre once again, Balon/Euron
This episode was fantastic! (Even if Jon wasn’t resurrected).
So much cool stuff! And before I forget to mention this, wow what a high fantasy episode! Have we ever had a Direwolf, Dragons, Giants, a Child of the Forest (Amazing looking CotF I must say) and a huge Flesh Gollum (named Robert Strong) all in the same episode?
Also, whomever thought of having Ghost notice Jon’s spirit returning to his body right away that was a really cool little detail that I loved so much!
Loved that the dragons are super intuitive and intelligent, sensing Tyrion was there to help, then offering its neck to be unchained. Really fucking awesome!
We got to see Lyanna Stark!
Jon coming to life!
Wow, this episode kicked ass. Really liked it. Have to go watch it again.
This is a top 5 episode IMO just for all the goosebumps at so many different scenes!
Anyone else think that Theon returning “home” could mean WF instead of Pyke?
Flayed Potatoes,
I noticed this too. My God, can’t Dave Hill think of something else? His lame scene where the Kings Landing citizen brags about flashing Cersei was like the Arya Hound scene outside of the Twins. (does Ser Gregor have Daredevil like heightened hearing?). And “punch me in the face” line was a throw back to Bryan Cogman’s lame “long sullen silences and a punch in the face, the Mormont way”.
I’ve always wondered that if his name is Wylis (Walder), what the fuck does Hodor mean? Maybe it’ll actually be really important to the over all story haha. I loved that flashback and the one next week will be even better!
I loved the part where Olly is taken away with Thorne. Who’s smirking now? 😉
I think the “gift” next week will be fake Rickon. Ramsay calls him “little man”, but isn’t Art the same height as Iwan now?
I had a couple of nit-picks, mostly with some of Tyrion’s jokes being uncharacteristically clunky and un-witty. And with a bit of Davos’ dialogue, especially when he was trying to ask Mel to give Jon’s rez a whirl, being very uncharacteristically wooden and plot instead of character driven.
But those pale in comparison to the things that really worked in this episode. Euron, even from the brief bit we so of him was better than I ever expected. A great mixture of nutty as a fruitcake and yet incredibly scary and dangerous seeming. And the Bran/Crow visit to past Winterfell was great (though it was a bit jarring how they seemed to change how intricately the three eyed crow was attached to the tree roots). And Jon’s rez scene was done to perfection. Perfectly times, perfectly crafted and just all around well executed.
Yeah I have a sneaking suspicion this ties in with the “Fuck Prophecy” talk and theme between Jaimie and Cersei last week
Of course it also ties into Mel with her faith diminished, ironically restored by Davos, but there’s being in line with Prophecy and then there’s living ones own truth
Considered this as well, “what gown did she wear, Red or Gold”, even though Cersei said “good” when Tommen said Gold I was thinking that she wouldn’t have been happy as it was in keeping with “Gold shall be their shrouds”
It’s gotta hurt, but he really has no one to blame but himself. A big part of this whole subterfuge was to let him be the first to tell the story by releasing that book.
Ghosts Lunch,
Ghosts Lunch,
It’s hard to fault them I guess. They accomplish so much in a years time. But even back to the previous episode I’m starting to see more holes in the writing than we’re used to. They have spoiled us. It’s just a little disappointing.
Never thought I would say that, but I loved the iron islands. Sansa was amazing, Jaime was amazing, Tyrion was hilarious.
The only part I didn’t like was Ramsay. Too predictable. And he could have stabbed Walda and given dear old dad to the dogs, make our day.
I loved Carice van Houten’s acting in this episode. She conveyed Melisandre’s feelings perfectly.
I’m excited to see what Euron will bring to the table in the next episodes. I wasn’t very impressed with the actor chosen for the role since he doesn’t match the character’s physical apparance, but he’s been good so far.
I’m so happy I could jump up and down!
Of course, we all KNEW Jon Snow would return. If he was only a “dead body” why the hell would he have been in the credits? (S’okay, Kit, you can fess up now … we still love you and forgive you for trying to convince us you were going to stay dead)
Love the flashback to young Ned/Benjen/Lyanna/Hodor (Wylis – how it was spelled in the closed captions). A much happier time for Bran to witness, to be sure.
Can’t wait for the next episode and I know I’ll be watching this one a couple more times before next Sunday comes around.
BTW – a question for the ASOIAF gods … now that Jon Snow has died, doesn’t that mean he’s no longer bound to the watch?
Isnt Jon Snow’s resurrection similar to the white walker’s resurrection? Could he now have some connection with them? Maybe even an ability to lead them?
Sooo, next episode, do you think Mel will get cocky and try to bring back the guy Wun Wun killed? Now that would be some impressive Lord of Light magic.
There was so much Jesus imagery going on with Jon I won’t be shocked if next episode they say something about him being dead for three days (it doesn’t seem three days, but the Bible does say he died in a Friday and was resurrected on a Sunday… Three days later)
Davos is a representation of GoT fans on the show. His line to Mel ‘Does he have to be? ‘ sums up what everyone who watches the show has been begging of GRRM.
Well Goddamn I just finished watching and holy shit. Death, death, and more death, and a Westerosi Easter!
Oh that’s great, now they’re representing responses to the fans whining through characters. They would’ve had to tbh, because Davos motivations make no fucking sense whatsoever.
I don’t know what people were expecting with Jon. I loved how no one was in the room when it actually happened. It should lead to a pretty interesting scene when Edd and company walk in the room and discover the body is gone.
JohnnyLaw,
LOL no one gives a shit about that guy, the Wildlings will probably rape that guys corpse, piss on it, shit on it, and then the Thens will eat it.
Also, loved the remark about “Acorns and Rocks” from Yara
Despite lack of Eyepatch, the actor playing Euron hit it out of the park, don’t know if he is a nut or not
Interesting to see Jagen “resurrected” as well in this episode
LatrineDiggerBrian,
What doesn’t make sense? In S3, he sees the warning about the WW. In S5 he sees that Jon Snow and the Wildlings can work together as an army. You’re going to need an army to fight the dead. He’s asking Mel to bring him back to help unite in the fight against the dead, because as has been firmly established, Davos is not a leader. What is missing?
Salty as fuck, I’l bet.
I don’t get why people are upset that we’ve (the fans) guessed where a lot of these stories were headed. We’ve had 5 years to speculate since the last book and almost a year since the last season. Of course we’re going to be right about lots of things. Especially with all the filming spoilers revealed at this very internet website.
And wrong about a lot of other things (Stannis).
I just want to say, when they mentioned Deepwood Mott, all I could think of was “Deepwood Mott confirmed!”, and giggled like an idiot.
I blame all of you. LOL
El-Bobbie,
I always thought “Danny coming out of the funeral pyre with her dragons out of the smoke” was the AA Moment
Stannis is lost to Davos. Stannis liked Jon and respected him as a leader. Davos is stuck at the Wall. He knows that Mel has powers. Hell, he may actually truly believe that Mel is right about the White Walkers and he, I don’t know, believes that Jon is the leader they need to fight them.
Kraznys,
Thats the whole point. They were called Children for their stature, not because they actually resemble children
I have to say I feel happy for kit ..after reading the interview of him I get how much pressure he must have felt doing the FTW scene…if that didn’t ended up as most talked about thing last year ..it would have meant something was wrong with him and he couldn’t pull it off ..
So iam happy kit pulled it off and can’t wait to see him delivering his best in the coming weeks ..
Go Kit
Bran in 1×02 and Jon in 5×02
Also
https://youtu.be/0byvmZnH18Q?t=27s
https://youtu.be/n2cwBmtPxyU?t=22s
I love the parallels
oops meant Jon in 6×02
LatrineDiggerBrian,
They make perfect sense. He had seen Jon’s dealings with Stannis first hand. How honorable he was. How he saved the wildings and let them through the wall. …
You adequately described the state of my brain, Sue. Melted. Very much so.
I still don’t have the words to describe it. That was terrifying and heartbreaking and absolutely amazing. Just WOW!
And every time I watched the Jon waking up scene I jumped even though I knew it was going to happen.
Gendry,
It was. So was Jon’s stabbing in the books. The show doesn’t care about prophecy, and the only time it was mentioned was a short throwaway line by Mel that was followed by Renly making the joke about Stannis being a ham.
Interesting. Maybe he’s Ramsay’s gift instead of Rickon?
I was also thinking Ramsay’s gift might be the news of Jon’s death.
I just really don’t him to get his clutches on Rickon!
That’s the stuff I live for – the stuff we’re all wrong about! I am so very eager for them to get beyond R+L=J so we can really dig into stuff that is beyond what most of us have considered.
Theon’s not talking about or going to Winterfell people. He’s seen with Yara in the trailers.
But that’s just it. It wasn’t Blood Magic.
Blood Magic is magic paid for in blood. “Only Death can pay for Life“. But this wasn’t that. No deaths; no blood.
I am not even sure what Jon is now. Undead in some form it would appear – or else he’s going to be leaking out of his entrails and liver in a few moments.
Whatever the case, that little bit of bother is the show’s doing. I am *quite* confident that will not be the result in the books. (He’ll be alive, for real, in Winds of Winter).
Anyone else get the feeling Sir Davos was praying before he left?
Was it him who brought Jon back not the Red Woman??
HE’S ALIVE!!!
A shout out to Carice van Houten!! She has been amazing these last two epidodes… Sophie and Gwendolin have been very good as well… and after Alfie’s performance today, I almost want to forgive Theon.
All in all, a great episode with amazin performances!!
Ghosts Lunch,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Only that one was kept in the show and other not ..
And how convenient to say show is not mentioning or care about prophecy ..
Because they now had two red priests talk about born amidst salt and smoke last season and episode in rregards to dany .
And they will be going with TSWMTW with dany in the following episodes and based on filming news dany is going to be having another
And they are going to start going to the parts of dragon as three heads with common name as “the one who is promised ” kind of Putting AAr ,TPTWp and TSwMTW all as one ..
I am thinking that its fake Rickon too. I hope so.
Okay, in the preview, was that bearded guy Smalljon?
ROFL
I thought about “hooray the Glovers can help House Forrester retake their Castle from House Whitehill” in the Telltale games
No doubt the Forresters will fight for the Starks and the Whitehills for the Boltons at Bastard Bowl
Why am I thinking this far ahead about the plotlines of a computer game lol
lol, so many abbreviations
What’s TSwMTW again?
I know the other two
Well, if IMDB starts listing a GOT credit for Titus Welliver, then I think the game’s up.
Fantastic episode. Covered a lot of Areas and Topics.
The Jon Snow resurrection was simple for a reason. He has a bigger role to play in the Story, than simply coming back. There would be no point to make that stretch out during this season. Perfect timing too.
The main story is about the 7 Kingdoms dealing with the Whitewalkers when they eventually reach the wall. So I wouldn’t be surprised if this season moves along very quickly in terms of covering most of the content from the books, that previous seasons did not cover.
Only surprise for me was Tyrion freeing the Dragons so easily….lol
Which can only mean that he has Targaryen blood in him. His conception would be interesting when it is finally told.
Overall, one of the best episodes of the series so far.
Steel_Wind,
He was brought back the same way Beric was brought back. Wimsey was right, the idea that there would need to be a sacrifice to bring Jon back was simply not supported by the text or the show. Jon is undead, just like he will be in the books.
weirwoodtreehugger,
I don’t want it to be Rickon either, but it probably is. I mean, what else could it be? If it were news of Jon’s death (which is unlikely because how would they know) Smalljon wouldn’t need to physically show him something and call it a gift. He would just call it news.
Ravyn,
Sansa, Brienne, AND Theon. He actually redeemed himself, this episode. The scene between Sansa and him, with the slight camera pan of Brienne, all showed how good the actors are
I think so too, but mostly because I think there’s a child actor that was unaccounted for during casting (it was mentioned in another post). Also, Roose’s “mad dog” quote could foreshadow some things, like the Northern Lords messing with Ramsay.
And I’m optimistic.
dragonbringer,
We’ll see. Come the war for the dawn, we shall see. ?
dragonbringer,
No red priest has talked about being reborn in salt and smoke, iirc. The one in ep 3 last season and
both use the phrase “reborn from fire, to remake the world” that’s it, nothing about salt and smoke or bleeding star, at least so far.
yo the high sparrow is a straight asshole. Come up on Jamie at his daughter’s funeral?! with like 30 dudes?! just to talk shit to his face and let him know he aint shit? i mean damn. on top of him having a little dick.. man. owned.
Davos refers to it as blood magic in season 2.
Really, so just from that he’s going to go out on a limb to ask a woman that he thinks is pure evil and hates so much that he wants to kill her, to bring back Jon? Because he thinks he’s an honorable guy?
He also has no idea that Mel can bring anyone back from the dead, so not sure where he got that idea? Maybe they had a water cooler chat at Dragonstone and she told him about that time Thoros of Myr brought back Beric Dondarrion? So he’s going go out on a whim to ask the person he fucking hates with a fucking passion, like he wants to kill her, so she can bring back some guy because he may be able to be a leader? It’s loose reasoning at best.
They were locked up because of what Drogon did. Not for anything they did. They seem to be more chill than him. Dany is probably the only one that will be able to “control” Drogon.
Ghosts Lunch,
The Stallion Who Mounted The World. Dothraki prophecy which was foretold about Rhaego, Dany and Drogo’s son.
Flayed Potatoes,
According to that reddit leak,
Although Jon’s story is the least interesting one to me personally and the resurrection was the worst-kept secret ever, they did do a great job with it. The rest of the episode was outstanding. I loved all of it.
TY,
Lulz.
Fo sho
For a second I though maybe Davos was going to be the one to do it when Mel walked away. I guess we’ll see if the whole spa treatment thing is more effective than the kiss of life. Takes longer to take effect at least.
My one complaint with the episode is that I don’t think we needed to see Walda and the baby die. They could have left it with Ramsay asking the Maester to get them and left it up to our imaginations. Oh, and apparently House Karstark also needs to get wiped off the face of the earth. We’re a long way from “The North Remembers”.
Ghosts Lunch,
The stallion who mounts the world ..
Its about the promised prince who will unite all the khalasars into one under his banner…dish khalleen mistook it as rhaego but it will be revealed it was dany all along .
Tyrion Pimpslap,
We will definetely see for sure .
We already have foreshadowing of dany at beyond the wall
Hahaha! 🙂
I’ve watched the episode twice, now, and I still can’t recall all the moments I thought were fantastic. I read through the posts and think, oh, yeah, that one, too…and that one!
Especially on the rewatch, although I loved the scene the first time, the way Sophie and Gwendoline play off each other is making for some really phenomenal scenes between them. I said this last week, and I’ll say it, again, Sophie has really grown as an actress.
I know it won’t happen but until next Sunday I can dream that Olly will be the gift to Ramsay.
A man could nitpick that Melisandre failed and Ghost resurrected Jon Snow.
Bran becomes Summer
Sansa becomes (a) Lady
Jon becomes (a) Ghost
Arya becomes Nymeria
Rickon becomes (a) Shaggydog (story)
Robb became (a) Greywind
After this episode, I’m totally torn on if Sansa goes to Castle Black!!!
On the one hand, it seems very much that they’re headed that direction, even though Ramsay clearly is currently planning an attack. Just seems like a foolishly obvious way for them to go if they’re trying to outrun and outsmart Ramsay? And yet it doesn’t look like Mel (and Jon, Davos, etc) are staying at CB long enough for a Bolton attack.
So now after this episode I’m wondering if Sansa does go, maybe Ramsay will instead demand her return or he’ll kill Rickon? And while Jon himself would think it’s an empty threat, he’d need Sansa to actually tell him it was real – because Jon thinks Rickon is dead. The only people who could tell him it’s a real threat are Theon and Sansa, right?
ghost of winterfell,
It could have been another actor. The guy didn’t specifically mention Art. He might have thought it was a recast.
Let me dream!!! lol
I guess we’ll see next episode. 😛
Btw did anyone think it was mind boggling that Tormund was there witnessing Mel try to resurrect Jon with the Lord of Light?
As in, Mel, the woman whose champion Stannis Baratheon tried to BURN MANCE ALIVE as part of their zealous belief in what the Lord of Light is telling them?
Tormund, Wildling of the North Tormud, just hanging out while a Red Priestess tries to resurrect Jon?
K. Honestly that alone – how solidly pro-Jon and unfazed he seems to be makes me think he’s going to die WAHHHH. I don’t think Jon’s closest allies all make it out alive. I think maybe Davos survives, but not Edd or Tormund KILL ME NOW.
As someone who has long doubted D&D’s ability to tell a good story now that we are beyond the books, and as someone who loathed Dorne last week, I was overjoyed to find myself loving every second of this episode to death. “Home” will definitely have a place on my top 10 GoT episodes list. It was very strong from start to finish, everything made sense, great writing, acting and directing, terrific pacing, and a few long overdue loose ends getting tied up (I’m looking at you Balon’s leech). Very stellar episode that felt tonally in line with the spirit of the novels, unlike much of what we saw last year and last week (yes, I’m a Dorne hater, I confess). Ultimately this episode has restored my confidence in D&D, and makes me believe this may well end up being the strongest season yet. So strong in fact, that “Home” may not hold a place on my top 10 list for long, if things continue this way.
Awesome second episode all around. 10/10.
PS : it was also nice to see some lines taken directly from the books, which we haven’t really had much since season 4 (Tyrion talking about his wish to have a dragon, and Euron’s dialogue).
ghost of winterfell,
That what iam also saying they have used the reborn from fire and used all the elements from book in regards to dany..and salt and smoke line from Mel in season 2
What you guys expect them not to say anything about salt and smoke and or bleeding stars or any lightbringer pulled from fire but have Jon called AAR .
Why not have them all included if they are making jon the one or if he is the one .
Gendry,
Yes but there’s many who are convinced Jon is AA and he has to fulfill the prophesy.
Hey, can’t I indulge in some denial for awhile?
The resurrection scene was great. I really thought they were going to leave the episode with him still dead and resurrect him on his funeral pyre next week. I thought that was where the whole thing about him being Targaryen comes in. So, I really was shocked when he came back to life at the end of the episode. I still think there is a chance it will play out differently in the books though.
So you kill the man who masterminded the Red Wedding like that?? Like a little b____?? and you bring Jon back like that?? So simple? some secret words and some hair?? WTF?? Why not do that ritual that Thoros was doing?? I don’t know, I need to process the episode… I feel really underwhelmed now.
Sort of a small subtle thing, but did anyone else have a problem with Brienne’s lie to Sansa? Not only was it completely out of character for her, but it was completely pointless. It seems more like her character would just tell the truth in that situation and why would Sansa have any reason to be mad at her?
THANK YOU. This is the day and age we’re in where everyone likes everything. With millennials, all you have to do is just give them what they want in the story and not offend them and everything is hunky dory. There were millenials that were practically going to kill themselves when Jon died last season, and many threatened to stop watching the show. Hot Pie could’ve appeared out of no where and crapped Jon out of his ass and as long as he came back from the dead, all good!
Pilou was amazing. We needed him, I really hope he gets some decent time in this season! 🙂
Loved the lower key, non-flashy Jon rez. A boy and his wolf.
Will miss ol Roose.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Was it a lie? She had no idea who the Hound was or that Sansa would know him at all??
He was pretty much just praying over Beric’s body wasn’t he? It doesn’t seem too much different.
Also Sansa realizing Theon wasn’t coming with her and hugging him… OOF that got me. I wonder if those two will ever see each other again and in what context
Funny thing – knowing the plot last week left me disheartened, as did the episode. Knowing it beforehand this week only added to my excitement. And so happy to see Bran again!
It’s kind of poetic that Roose gets killed the same exact way Roose killed Rob. And unceremonious deaths are the staple of this series. Very few characters have clean deaths.
Why would Mel do the exact same ritual Thoros did? She never saw him actually raise anyone. And they are from two completely different places. Thoros is from Myr and Melisandre is from Ashai. It fits that they would have differing methods or techniques. The way my aunt worships is completely different than how my mom does, and they profess to believe and pray to the same God. And if anything it goes to show that the actual ritual or prayer is irrelevant to the act of resurrection.
hexonx,
I don’t think it’ll play out that differently in the books. Especially not a pyre or anything grandiose like that. The show would not have omitted something that important.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yes it would be a welcome twist, no doubts about that! But I fear he is doomed, I would love to be wrong though.
I just rewatched and still–YAY!! on so many levels.
I don’t think I can remember the last time I was so happy after an episode.
My thoughts-jumble that they are:
YES flashback Bran and yes Winterfell of the past with not-so-old Nan and Hodor and Ned saying exactly what Jon said while sparring. and Lyanna f-ing Stark on a horse in pants and befriending the stable boy. Perfection.
Also you can tell Bran’s been doing this a little while, it looked like Bloodraven was moderately startled when he was able to move through a scene without him.
I feel like Hodor’s story might be connected with Lyanna’s now. I can’t wait to find out how.
CotF makeup for the win. I am so happy they did a mulligan on that. She looked fantastic.
At the Wall-loved Davos, loved Wun Wun, am sorry we will still have moments when the camera turns to Olly as if his reaction is super important because he’s still alive but…you can’t have everything. Tormund and Edd are rock stars.
I feel like flasher guy deserved a head butt, though I’m not sure how FrankenMountain found him to deliver it.
Jaime and Tommen and Jaime and High Sparrow–fantastic. HS is so darn smug now I want him to suffer a little.
Cersei…there were some fantastic little things there. Pulling the thread off her dress, not reacting the way she normally does, trying to resist looking at Tommen-or distancing herself until he asks her for help. It felt to me as if she was already seeing him dead, if that makes sense, which went with last episode’s conversation about the prophecy.
Ramsay…I knew he was going to kill them this season, but Iwan startled me. He couldn’t look at his father when he did it, his hand was trembling–was Roose his hardest kill? He seemed pretty rattled by it, and he didn’t smile once, which is weird for him. Really well done.
And then dogs ate the baby and I don’t care how good his acting is, his character needs killing.
PS Karstark didn’t even flinch. I officially don’t like the Karstarks again.
I loved Sansa with Brienne and Theon, Theon was fantastic. Pod still can’t light a fire. I am wondering why she didn’t tell Sansa the Hound was with Arya, but I imagine she’s trying not to panic her already tormented charge?
Tyrion’s conversation with the dragons–one in particular if anyone was paying attention–was epic. He’s the dragon whisperer. I love it and I hope he rides that dragon. I will say they need to go back to the Tyrion joke book, because 2 episodes in a row he’s joking about his closest friend’s lack of junk.
Feed it to the goats already, we KNOW. We have tons of eunuchs on the show now, hot ones too, but Varys was our first. We haven’t forgotten.
PS-I forgive him completely because he bowed to a dragon like he was a hippogriff and won a million points for his house.
Euron is crazy. He didn’t feed his brother to the dogs, but he did give him to the Drowned God. Lots of kinslaying this episode. But long overdue all around.
Arya’s scene was also perfection. Give her some food and stop hitting her already, she passed the test!
I feel like if Edd or Tormund said “We’re doomed” or “What do we do without him to lead us?” or something, it would have saved a lot of people wondering why Davos asked for magic he’s loathed from the beginning from the woman basically responsible for the death of his king. But Davos saw Jon’s potential and he’s smart. He knows the stakes. He knows about the white walkers and Boltons and he knows the way we do that the only man who could have brought the rest of the north and the wildlings together is on a slab without a pulse. He also knows that there’s someone in the other room who birthed a shadow assassin right in front of him so he decides to give it a shot. He has nothing to lose.
And Carice was great in this.
Jon’s cleansing and anointing was so Game of Thrones Jesus it couldn’t be avoided lol-but it was a powerful scene. Yes, the fact that Mel killed Mance and Tormund is there, and Mel killed Stannis (through her actions and his confidence in her visions) and multiple other people he knows and doesn’t know about and Davos is still there is odd–but it gives silent testimony to how desperate everyone is to get Jon back. About as desperate as we were.
And here is where I have, on second viewing, a sliver of doubt. Mel’s necklace didn’t light up at all. From the look on her face, she wasn’t feeling anything. She begged, but still nothing.
Sure it could be a delayed reaction, but…what if it wasn’t anything she did?
I don’t care atm because I’m just so happy he opened his eyes, but it did make me wonder.
Previews Tower of Joy and my GoT happiness is complete. I’ve been waiting for that forEVER.
Elsewhere on previews, Ramsay’s smile is back and I’m terrified because it’s probably Rickon due to the Umber shout out.
And I’m still so happy Jon is alive!!
dragonbringer,
Relax, I am not saying Jon is AA or that Dany is not. Let’s just wait and see how things play out. 🙂 What’s interesting is even Mel does not seem to think that Jon is AA, she only got him back because of Davos pleading with her. I wonder what will be her reaction towards Jon going ahead. What I am most interested now is how UnJon will be as a person, now that the resurrection is done with.
Lol if they later scheduled the season so that May 1st was resurrection day – Orthodox/early Easter day – with all the HEAVY Jesus imagery and parallels…..woah
ghost of winterfell,
Mel doesn’t have any reason to think Jon is AA. Being resurrected is not unique to AA. There’s been others, like Beric, who have been resurrected.
The North Remembers indeed!!!!! We are finally getting all our Targaryens!!!!!!!
As he said…”It’s just beginning…” Aegon is coming!!!!!
And Jon finally listened to what Maester Aemon told him…”kill the boy Jon Snow and let the man be born”. And he has!!!!
weirwoodtreehugger,
Sure but we only have another week to do so. (Not trying to be mean so please don’t take it as such)
Vlad,
Well, all Thoros did was pray to his god over his friends dead body. I don’t see it being that much different here except Mel did more shit and she isn’t friends with Jon.
And was Roose supposed to die in an epic fashion? Just because he helped overthrow a Northern king doesn’t mean he needed to die as such. Tywin Lannister was one of the most feared men in all the Seven Kingdoms yet he dies on the toilet. Khal Drogo was considered one of the best but he didn’t die in battle. This series loves to fuck with perceptions of people by doing things like this.
Well she skips over the part about her beating the crap out of said guy, and then Arya being stranded in the middle of nowhere by herself.
Pad would’ve known that Sansa knew the Hound.
ghost of winterfell,
Iam not saying you did but I can’t understand the comments they don’t care about prophecy .
Only last week people were shouting Mel is baring her chest for nissa nissa now they don’t care ..come on.
Everything I said last year comes true it seems…it would be terrible Mel start shouting Jon as AAR after what happened with stannis and shireen and people like davos and Jon will find it hard to accept ..
And I like they are making Jon breaking out of his vows and NW on his own and leaving it to for making bigger plans for the good of the realm by retaking winterfell and becoming a stark
Melisandre didn’t bring Jon back.
Davos didn’t bring Jon back.
JON brought Jon back. He was warged into Ghost.
Another nit pick, I generally liked the Iron Islands scenes, but why did they have to cut to a shot of a frazzled Euron after Balon Greyjoy falls over the bridge? He is kind of breathing heavy and looking at his wound. From what I’m hearing how Euron is described in the books, he comes across as unflappable.
El-Bobbie,
Exactly if Mel starts calling jon as AAr then that would mean she never learnt from her mistake and again pretending or framing another one as chosen one when she already knows that there are others who have been come back in the same way .
Jon Snow = A Song Of Ice And Fire
Sean C.,
I agree with you on most of these points — especially Davos’ odd insistence that Mel try to resurrect Jon. It just didn’t fit with what we have seen so far.
I didn’t have an issue with Walda walking around after giving birth, though. It’s really not that difficult to do so. I was up walking around within 10 minutes of having my daughter. In actually it’s the sitting part that’s painful (especially on a wooden chair – ha!), not the walking part.
El-Bobbie,
What I meant was there was no belief on Mel’s part, prior to resurrection, that it was Jon instead of Stannis who was AA. The common guess was that it was this belief,whether right or wrong, that would lead to Mel resurrecting Jon. She never saw “only Snow” in her flames, like in the books. Going ahead, yes, she has already seen Beric come back, so Jon coming back should not automatically have her thinking that he is AA. That’s why I am interested in what she thinks of Jon in the coming episodes.
Poor Rickon. Also I think Davos will be burning at the battle. I think he is going to the Umbers and asking them to join there army. But suddenly they arrest Davos and hand him over to the Boltons.
Just guessing.
Yeah ,i would prefer it if Jon actively chose to become an “oathbreaker” by leaving the NW, than everybody just agreeing that his temporary death gives him an easy “out” from his vows.
Kamali,
Well, because while religious ceremonies might differ from country to country, The Lord’s Prayer is the same everywhere :). Even more so, the religion of Rhllor is not something regional, they’re connected to each other, they try to expand… Thoros the Last Kiss to bring back Beric, by accident, it was simply the ritual used for all dead people by Red priests. Can you imagine what discussions we would get if Mel did that? breath fire into Jon and him combing back to life?? :)) …. all the “Targaryen confirmed” stuff? :))) Hell, maybe they even wanted to avoid this, who knows. But I have a huge problem it was simply done by saying a spell and burning some hair…. hair??? what is that?? Any strong magic should require a big payback …
So glad I live on the West Coast — I have had time to watch the episode twice AND read most of the post-show comments AND can still get enough sleep to function at work tomorrow!
As usual, I watched the first time with my sullied daughter and the second time with my sullied-but-very-perceptive husband. It’s fun to see how the show works differently for the three of us.
My daughter and I were quite happy and appreciated this episode’s many references to book stuff. Random thoughts: Young Lyanna on her horse and Wyllis the stable-boy! My first thought was that Lyanna’s horse would cause a brain injury for Wyllis that will involve a door; I’m sure the real story will be more interesting than that! I just re-read the kingsmoot chapter and recognized Asha-Yara’s line about the pinecones. I had many doubts about the Sansa-Theon storyline during season 5, but Sophie and Alfie just nailed their scene here — it’s the only time I cried this episode. It was a great choice to delay Balon’s death until now to remind us of Mel’s leeches and to show Mel cleaning the body to remind us of the power of king’s blood. Although the show has not emphasized the eerie connection between Ghost and Mel as the books have, I think that it was important that both Mel and Ghost had given up before Jon woke.
My husband can usually predict the major events. He was yelling at Roose to kill Ramsay while he had a chance! When Ramsay asked to see Walda and the baby, my husband asked if he was going to kill them. I told him he could fast-forward through the scene if he guessed how it would happen — and he guessed correctly on the first try (come to think of it, he had also guessed last week that Ramsay would feed Myranda to the dogs). My husband did not, however, figure out the very-much-anticipated scene in the episode 3 preview — he asked me if it was a new character and thought he was either a Lannister or a “stormborn”! I’m glad there will be some surprises for him next week.
anyone else think that Ghost did it? I mean ghost lies still, waits for them all to leave the room and then BOOM!!!!
Maybe the Jon Snow warging into Ghost thing was legit after all?
juxtaposition blood raven grabbing brans arm vs trailer showing nights king grabbing brans arm…..??
Yeah he doesen’t look how I imagine Euron (more James Purefoy from Rome) but he certainly acted the scene really well, started carrying on about needing silence and being the storm etc like it was perfectly natural. Looking forward to seeing how things go in the next few episodes
Yeah the resurrection was nice in a way, a nice homage to bran in S1 E2. Of course Bran came back completely different, no longer the climbing boy but the lad with 3-eyed Crow dreams
McElhatton has done a fantastic job as Roose. Looking forward to the Curtain Call. There’s going to be a few this week lol
That all said there was a clear theme that Wo5K era is over, we are entering the end-game now so Jon is going into it differently and of course Euron entering the stage is big in this respect too IMO and of course Tyrion releasing the Dragons. I have a suspicion in the books at least that Euron is the main antagonist to Dany so it will be interesting to see if this ends up being the case with the show. Hardhome seemed to suggest the Night’s King is the main antagonist to Jon Snow
The man with the whiskers in the Winterfell flashback scene is a young ser Rodrik Cassel, right? For a moment I thought it was Daniel Portman (Podrick) in different makeup / hairstyle, which would make sense since they’re father and son in real life. (Ron Dochrie is the stage name of older ser Rodrick) Great casting then, if it’s a different actor. Also, the mystery around Hodor intensifies. There is more to his story. Do we get more flashbacks to that time? There was mention of a scene with young Robert Baratheon as well, but isn’t that a misreading of the casting announcement of “a boy, tall for his age”? That actually this was meant to be Hodor?
Lol, interesting idea
He certainly seemed quite relaxed while the whole ritual thing was going on
Ghosts Lunch,
Nah, I think Ghost just sensed the return of Jon’s spirit before Jon gasped.
Making the 8,
A Westerosi Easter, airing on Easter Sunday for those of the Orthodox faith.
Nadia,
I don’t think it was intentional, but the timing sure was convenient.
The red priests aren’t really that connected to each other. They have different agendas just like other religions leaders. Some Red Priests in Essos think Dany is Azor Ahai and obviously Mel thought it was someone completely different. It makes more sense for rituals to be personalized than for them to be exactly the same. I also think it makes a point that the rituals themselves are irrelevant, what was the same is both Thoros and Mel had lost their faith when they attempted to do their resurrections.
LatrineDiggerBrian:Hot Pie could’ve appeared out of no where and crapped Jon out of his ass and as long as he came back from the dead, all good!
Dude, you’re supposed to cover book spoilers.
Maybe thats significant? As in, Euron will need to wear an eye-patch? People were complaining that he didnt have one but that would be like the cheesiest thing ever.
Even before last scene (which I must admi I did not expect in this episode at all), I was sure that I was watching one of the best episodes (if not the best) of first part of season.
I was literally blown away…everything worked for me perfectly. The theme Home was very clearly explored and used.
From Bran s vision to Euron vs. Balon showdown on the bridge. I LIKE Euron if we did not see him yet properly.
What the difference with all of Ironborn scenes so far versus Dornish … (won t going to use any rude words, despite the urge I would).
What to say about the last scene: well as most of us I expected it. But it has last like for centuries to the point I was started to doubt…
I am curious about one thing: yes, it was Melisandre s magic that resurrected Jon, no doubt on “technical” level of things, but an idea crossed my mind (heavily based on Thoros words in S3): Was it the faith of Davos, Tormund and Edd that actually did it?
Stark improvement to Episode 1.
I wonder why people forgetting when Tyrion asks missandei dragons ever hurt her ..if she went to free them they would have given the same reactions as well .
I mean in the books they are constantly feeded and handmaidens of dany are with them and there is jorah barrisatn and BBP all are not harmed by the dragons because they are with dany
Is it any different from what we see with Sam and ghost and I consider it same ..
Anyways I will wait till this season to be certain that no one will be riding dragons other than dany.
And after what tyrion said at the end to varys I doubt we will ever see him doing anything like this again .
Ok now that euron is in …I can’t wait the one who is claiming first and last storm to be slayed by the real storm born as one of her slayer of lies.
Agreed! Still running high on waves of euphoria and other stuff! As if I ever need a reminder of why I love this show!!!! Hard to believe that it is on it’s sixth season!!!!
I think you’re right. It was dark and hard to see, but it appears like he does grab his eye.
If that’s the case, I don’t understand why old ass Balon is the one who has to cut his eye. He should’ve just showed up with an eye patch. A bad ass character already gets tarnished within 2 minutes of meeting him.
ok …alrite …i was wrong about almost everything i predicted about this episode ( on the preview post)….but i got more than what i thought i will get ….and it played better than how i thought it would…..
so im extremely happy…..and completely enjoyed this episode…
Much better episode than last week.
“Considering how starving the dragons should be, since they haven’t eaten in days, I’m shocked they don’t rip Tyrion in two when he approaches their dungeon for a visit and introduces himself as a friend of their mother’s. Perhaps there’s something to all those Tyrion-has-Targaryen-blood theories? In the show, anyway. Whole new ballgame, people.“
He’s a dragon-rider…most likely. And his horse harness-making for Bran is a clue. And the dragons have an affinity for the dragon-riders — who are always born smaller in stature to ride the dragon more easily. If any other person other than a dragon-rider (or their ‘mother’) had tried to free them from their chains, it would likely have ended much differently. And after seeing Tyrion free the first from his chains, the 2nd dragon lowered his own neck and positioned it near to Tyrion to make it easy for him to remove it. These dragons are not at all stupid.
Am I the only one that thinks this episode was average?!?
Jon Snow’s resurrection was pretty predictable, especially when Ghost looked up towards the table, Roose’s death, pretty lame, The Imp and the dragons, ok, Euron, OK, Sansa, meh, the flashback, ok,I was expecting a fight between the wildlings and the Night’s Watch,KL the only good scene was Jaime vs HS…..
I don’t know, but I’m not that much hyped about season 6
Euron touches his cheek, not his eye (The picture up top even shows the cut to his cheek). Mad or not, someone cuts your eye out you will be screaming bloody murder. As for him not wearing a patch…idk seems cliche if you ask me. Now if he was already missing an eye or if it was a different color than the other one, that might of been a good compromise.
Zamolxys Deus,
wow ur a tough crowd
The body count is frighteningly growing. If I were Mace Tyrell I would change the ship’s direction and flee to the Summer Isles forever.
Wasn’t a scene with Tommen and Pycelle supposed to be in the episode (promo stills) ? I hoped we would see the Small Council even though Kevan appears in the next promo.
I think that’s very likely to be true. And in the end, a move from politics to actual basic survival.
DireWolfHeart,
I’m really wondering it. After all, before saying that he is going Home Theon is talking about his link (and his shame/desire for redemption) with the Starks he doesn’t mention the Iron Islands once.
He could be planning a suicide mission against Ramsay.
I’m expecting Season 6 to be at the level of Season’s 1-3, I don’t know, maybe I’m expecting too much
Brugalex,
Jon did not warg. The show had so many chances to make it obvious or clear to the audience, and they didn’t.
Even the inside the episode thing says that Ghost sensed Jon coming back. It wasn’t warging.
Zamolxys Deus,
Cool name, Romanian like me? 🙂
Let’s be done with TOJ and RLJ now Jon is back ..
I think the next big most intriguing subject should be what happened to HODOR .
I think its better than Season 1 and 2 so far.
?
Was Kit Harrington in the titles for Episode 1? As soon as I noticed it in this episode I knew he would be back. It would have been nice to have left his name out to keep the pretense up a tiny bit longer.
Let’s hope nothing bad happens..
Ovenproofwill,
He was in the titles. They have always kept the main character who played corpse in the titles. I remember Rose Leslie was in the S4 finale titles, even though she died in ep9.
After I was sort of disappointed with the Season start, Episode 2 really knocked it out of the park for me. The flashback showing young Hodor/Wyllis and – most of all – Lyanna was amazing, well preparing the unsullied audience for the Tower of Joy flashback. Finally Euron is here, and he’s great! Since HBO had released the first trailers I was very much looking forward to the Tyrion meets dragons scene, because I was expecting it to give us a strong hint as to whether he will be one of the dragon riders or not. And it fact it did. Tyron is a Targaryan – I was expecting it all along, but after seeing how this scene was set up I’m sure.
Also, the resurrection of Jon was very telling. No fire, no smoke, no salt – he is alive, but not AA. This would be Dany. But with how they are setting up things, his resurrection and with the ToJ flashback being basically confirmed by the trailers, its clear that Jon is a Targaryan as well and will be a major player in the GoT until the very end – very likely, he’s going to be the third dragon rider.
I can’t think of a single other episode that gave so much away in terms of hints and fulfilling prophecies towards the endgame than this one. Sure, the death of Lord Bolton felt kind of weak, but other than that the entire episode was amazing. Certainly one of the Top 5 Episodes for me.
What an episode!!! I loved every fucking second of it and that whilst being a big fan of Roose in the books. But everything was so amazingly done, scenes got time to breathe, there was no sense of rushing and…well this is one of the best episodes they have ever done and dispelled a lot of the worries I had about future episodes.
Normally I would try to list my bad to good scenes, but no bad scene in this episode, will just list my three favourite and probaby most important things to happen in the light of the season:
1) Obviously, Jon’s back, nothing more needs to be said!!!
2) Ramsay becomes the big baddy in a very convincing way! Sometimes Rheon has given me doubts, but that scene with Walda and the doubt that flickers across his face when he killed his father…perfect. Finally after the Jof, another bad guy I love to hate (he just amused me at times, annoyed me at others before today). Whilst we all saw it coming, the fact he didn’t plan it is perfect for Ramsay, it was all in the moment, rash and short sighted, but so Ramsay. You could see he didn’t really realise what happened until after and then his cunning came into motion immediately.
* regarding Roose, it was crucial to include that line of “you’ll always be my firstborn”…since it means Roose saw the danger, but thought he could control it (nice job by the writer there).
3) Cersei/Jaime/High Sparrow/Tommen –> so much ground covered in a few perfect scenes and the first time the danger of the High Sparrow is not only apparent, but he even acknowledges his goals. You can see Jaime realising what the hell he is dealing with.
What hyperbole.
Holy shit. I’ve watched this episode twice and I’ve barely been able to collect my full thoughts.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
He didn’t cut his eye (check trailer), no eye patch and the better for it! A great character introduction on par with Oberyn. The madness and danger was almost radiating from him, I suppose you would prefer a parrot as well, maybe a wooden leg (yeah that eye bothered me in the books).
All around a very solid episode, better than most from season 5. Didn’t expect they’d bring Jon back so soon though! I’m anxious to see if maybe those tidbits concerning the cities of Slavers Bay are hinting at an impending Siege of Mereen, similar to that in book 5. This would greatly add to the effect of the Greyjoy fleet sailing in to save the day!Stoked for ToJ next week!
Balon01,
Hahaha noooooo nooooo. Episode 1 was okay, episode 2 was good. You can’t make that claim yet.
I just pictured Euron as someone with supreme confidence who is completely unflappable. He’s always in a good mood and his intentions are always bad. He is a complete psychopath but at the same time is supremely charismatic. Usually when you have a character that bad ass, you don’t have someone put a mark on him right away. Nevertheless an old man, and don’t have him standing on the bridge writhing in pain as he grabs his eye.
My point isn’t about the eye patch. I don’t care about it. It’s the fact that we get the shot of him writhing in pain after Balon cuts him. Why???? Were they trying to give Balon a bad ass death at the expense of Euron? See my post above that describes what I picture from Euron, and right off the bat an old man slices him and we see him in pain. So already we see him weak. It’d be like if Tywin got a little tongue tied in that first encounter with Jaime and started stuttering.
Much better than The Red Woman.
– What was Thorne’s plan with the wildlings? Until this episode, I thought he was going to ask the Boltons for help or something.
– Roose’s death. Wow, that was anticlimactic.
– Where’s Pycelle?
– Jaime and the High Sparrow. Even though I’m usually not interested in King’s Landing’s plot, that scene was awesome.
– Tyrion: I think he went there because of a mix of death wish and an obsession with seeing real dragons.
“He makes dwarf jokes, I make eunuch jokes.”
“I don’t make dwarf jokes.”
“You think them.”
– Ironborn: I loved seeing Yara telling Balon he’s full of shit. And the Easter eggs.
“The first storm, and the last” is as hammy as in the book.
– Bran: Everything in that scene was perfect.
They changed the Children of the Forest makeup. I KNEW IT!!!!
Tywin of the Hill,
That’s something I noticed regarding the Children of the Forest as well. Why did they make that change? It was so fucking perfect in season 4. Was it even the same actor? What a horrible move.
As for Theon’s “Home” I’m sure he’s heading back to Pyke (as we’ve seen him with Yara in the trailers) in order to get her to help him return to Winterfell and kill the hell out of Ramsay as his swan song.
Regarding Euron being taking down a notch as a badass character because he was cut by Balon, I don’t see how being injured diminish the character in any way. He’s sort of “shaking it off” easily enough as far as I can see.
I was disappointed to see Roose go so quickly although it was inevitable. Terrible unfair deaths for Walda and her baby. It’ll be hugely satisfying to see Ramsay get his due sometime this season.
I wonder if all the castration jokes are to make people remember that Theon Greyjoy is not the only one who’s been maimed that particular way in GoT or what that’s all about. On the other hand, I like how no character is truly perfect in GoT, not even precious Tyrion. Well, Sansa is pretty perfect and so is Jon Snow. But since I don’t know anyone at all in real life who is always truly good and flawless, character flaws are what make GoT worth watching in my opinion. I’m so glad that we have all these grey characters to make it more believable.
She’s still blind. She’s just no longer a beggar. Watch the next episode’s preview.
One thing I noticed with some complaints it that of presumably ‘scenes you could have done without’. Often these scenes are actually indispensable to make the eventual pay off mean anything at all. It would be strange to suddenly see Tommen halfway through the season without any interaction. It is these scenes that make me love this series and anchor the more electric moments. I am loving what that actor is doing with the young king!
Episode started a bit weak, Bran’s vision was meh, Castle Black conflict was meh. But after that it was just awesome. 9/10, soo many great scenes.
It’s so weird having Jon officially be alive. Almost a whole year of “He’s dead, he’s dead, I’m dead, not coming back, 100% gone.”. None of us really believed it, and now the spell is suddenly just broken.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/01/game-thrones-jon-snow-harington-alive
Gotta love Kit’s reaction. “Uh, sorry? :D”
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I can understand your problem, but I did like it. Balon obviously knew his brother would try to kill him, for him to just be meekly thrown over without resistance would be rather odd of a presumed warrior (even if he is old). Writhing is a strong word as well and anybody would be a bit concerned with something that close to your eye, even a mad pirate. What mainly sold me in that scene was Pilou’s acting, there was something seriously off about Euron and that came across nicely.
Want to hear something funny? The day this episode aired, it was Mother’s Day in Spain.
koempel,
He is breathing heavily and is all disoriented.
Balon Greyjoy has had 3 scenes on the show, he didn’t need any kind of a bad ass death. Euron should’ve dominated him without a scratch, and if they were going to show another shot of him, show him laughing his ass off.
I didn’t mind the scene either up until that last shot.
Here’s the old clip of Mel meeting Thoros of Myr. Interesting to watch again in the wake of ep. 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2MGg_8TF9g&feature=player_embedded
As for the theories that Jon had warged into Ghost…I just didn’t see any evidence of it and wanted to. I wound and rewound that section. When Ghost lifted his head, his eyes were still red. When Jon opened his eyes, they were still dark. I thought Ghost lifted his head because he sensed the return of Jon, not that Jon was transferring himself back into his body.
But hopefully we’ll know more later.
Also seeing a lot of questions about timeline, given that the longer he would be dead the worse for wear he might be. I thought it was under 24 hours, but would love to hear if there’s evidence to the contrary.
This is the timeline I had in my mind:
Late one night, Jon called out to the courtyard and stabbed to death.
At dawn, Ser Davos finds him, moves him into the room and huddles with allies. Edd goes off to find the Wildlings, Ghost is fetched.
Later that morning, Alliser and friends confront the barricaded door, give a deadline of that evening to come out.
Mel goes to take a nap.
Evening comes, Alliser and friends try to break down the door, the Wildlings break down the gate.
Same evening, Davos goes to Mel. Nap is over.
Later that same evening, Mel comes back in and does her thing.
Thoughts?
Thorne and Olly being locked up and not killed, was a bit of a surprise. Any thoughts about what’s gonna happen to them when a resurrected Jon confronts them? They can’t be send to the Wall for their treason 🙂 Executing them in the next episode(s) is a bit strange, because the loyal watchmen / wildlings could have done that right away. What’s the narrative purpose of keeping them alive longer? Do they want some measure of justice meted out?
*tinfoil* It would be extremely ironic if their lives were spared and imprisoned in the ice cells and they’ll be turned into wights when the Others / White Walkers attack the Wall. But maybe that’s too far-fetched.
WOW!! Stark children are so LOVELY!!!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Bad ass? He barely cut the guy and got thrown over the rope like a sack of potatoes. It would have been silly without any resistance. Anyway, seems you want something different out of Euron that I.
I loved how simple it was – we’ve all been talking ourselves circles with ifs, hows and maybes, but it was always supposed to be this way!! Although I do think there was a missed opportunity for either Davos or Mel to have a little monologue about how important he was, building up to the need to resurrect him. The plot points are being crossed off so quickly this season, I just can’t wait to see what’s coming! And I think that’s the point – the showrunners are just getting through the stuff we know to get to the really interesting part of the story.
I particularly loved all the little touches which felt like they were just for the fans (the flashback, trolling the Hairwatch brigade, pinecones and rocks), and so many theories and speculations were answered too. Did anyone else notice the shot of Ramsay’s knife (dripping with his father’s blood) just above all those letters? That’s … interesting… I loved that Roose was killed just how he himself had killed Rob- that it was done by Ramsay made the Red Wedding vengeance bitter sweet. And I loved the way the theme of Home played out throughout the episode. All in all, I haven’t felt so cheered by this show since Lysa went through the Moon Door!! Really looking forward to whatever is coming next – although I think much of it may feel a little predictable, which will be our own fault as we’ve all been working so hard to predict everything!!!!
Been watching a lot of reaction videos and reading comments all over the net. Everyone’s freaking out about Jon, overjoyed for his comeback. He’s trending on twitter again. It’s insane.
Also, is Hodor really older than Ned? Damn, Hodor must be like in his fifties by now.
Sarahx,
Your timeline is perfectly alright.
koempel,
If he barely cut him then why did they have to show him carrying on after the shot of Balon falling into the ocean? He’s breathing heavily and sort of bobbing his head, touching his face to feel for blood. It’d be like if that first guy Darth Vader forced choked punched him in the face before dying. Then afterwards we get a shot of Vader in pain with his hand on his face.
But anyway, most of you guys were in love with Kylo Ren, the biggest pussy of a villain of all time. So it’s no wonder you’d excuse Euron already getting wounded by his old ass brother.
Well, Jon’s alive then. I was underwhelmed. Where was the build-up? No matter what the reason behind Jon coming back to life is, the viewers weren’t given the chance to figure it out by themselves. We weren’t explained why Jon should be resurrected. The mutiny was already over. We don’t know why Mel and Davos care enough about Jon to even think about resurrecting him. If Jon warged, we weren’t given any indication of his ability to do so in advance. If he’s AA and that’s why he’s alive, we weren’t given any reason to think it could be him or, as a matter of fact, to think why he would be anyone special at all (except for being able to kill that white walker, but even that was explained by him using Valyrian steel, not by Jon having special abilities).
I would’ve liked to understand why he comes back to life before he came back to life. I guess they want us to experience this the way that somebody like Davos is experiencing it (=not understanding at all what is going on), it’s just not what I’d call satisfying storytelling.
Anyway, I’m glad most people here seem to be happy with the episode. I guess the ‘oh shit, that happened’ approach doesn’t work for me. Glad Jon’s back, though.
That was an A+ episode. Bryan Cogman earned a 2 episode promotion and I think Dave Hill has earned a 2 episode promotion for next season.
However, some may say the Children of the Forest look has improved but I don’t like how she now looks like a grown woman and not a child. I think the Children of the Forest should look younger and actually prefer the look in season 4 over this new one.
Hmm, seriously was hoping for a different outcome to the twist really. Hoping there still is and this isn’t a simple “Second Coming” that GRRM intended all along, would be more interesting if Jon was back in body but not in mind…
Hoping for complications in the next episode!
just glad they didnt drag his resurrection out for longer, most people were expecting it anyway. Now just really excited to see whats happening next. Will he be changed?
Sarahx,
Sounds quite good to me
WILLIS !!
Oh and Euron always came off as a caricature in the books (Jack Sparrow gone bad), this realisation looks a lot more promising so far.
Vlad,
Mel did exactly what Thoros did, ”she said the words”
Pretty sure they show Davos looking at the burning crosses in a trailer. And by then it should be clear the Umbers are with the Boltons.
They name dropped the Manderlys. Combine that with the casting calls, and we’re definitely getting a version of Lord Manderly’s epic “mummer’s farce” monologue, aren’t we?
Evi,
Well perhaps Jon isn’t AA.
taim,
Yeah I think he will change a bit but not a lot. What will be changed about him we will come to know in the next couple of episodes.
PERFECT!!! Best episode so far? Definitely up there with Hardhome and others. LOVED the fact that they didn’t show the dogs doing their “thing” with that poor baby (not so much poor Walda, I could care less). I think Melisandre and Davos are exactly where they should be. He gives her hope by having faith in her and I’m not at all surprised by the change in how he interacts with her…he knows how much Stannis thought of Jon, he knows how powerful she was and let’s all face it, Stannis was his man and he said many things to Davos about him AND Jon has inspired great respect from others and I think Davos realizes there is a need for him. Wish Thorne and company had been squished under Wun Wun’s boot, but there’s a reason they weren’t…should be interesting to see Thorne’s expression when he realizes Jon is alive. Ramsey killing Roose was spot on IMHO. We KNEW it was coming but it still made me gasp. Sansa and Brienne in the woods talking about Arya, Theon and his scene with Sansa was so poignant it made me sad; Euron!! Knew it was coming, but it was so much better on the screen than I expected (or I’m just still blown away by this episode). Bloodraven and Bran!! That scene told of happier times and showed a family that was all Stark and you could actually feel their love for each other. So much to take in! I have to say those dragons must have sensed something in Tyrion….what???
Then there is Jon. We all expected it to happen, knew it would happen, but when I saw Ghost stir and him gasp and his eyes fly open I got so excited that I was high-fiving the air like an idiot, saying “yes, yes” over and over. I must say despite the fact there were leaks that he was alive the cast and crew did plant the tiniest seed of doubt in my mind. Didn’t matter about the fact I knew, it was GREAT to see him suck in air!
I’m sure there are things in this episode that people have and will continue to pick apart, but we are moving forward at breakneck speed and I CANNOT GET ENOUGH GOT! D&D are doing a great job IMO, and deserve the credit for pushing this show to great lengths. Jon!!
“I have a gift for you”. Rickon? THAT scares me a bit…King’s Moot coming, TOJ!! Bring it on HBO.
Well, I’m blubbering like an idiot, but I’m so psyched at this point. Can’t wait to read TWOW, but as a tv show GOT is certainly the best by far.
Hello guys, WHAT AN EPISODE !!!
Do you know how people cheer when your belowed team scores a goal ?
I assume you do, well i cheered double than that when Jon opened his eyes !!! HOLY FUCK
So… now when i am little settled xD what do you think about this:
this is Davos in episode 4, something is burning, i really hope the burning ones are Thorne Olly etc etc, since Mel has her power now and she needs sacrifices !!!
from the day it became highly probable that Jon was coming back …I wanted to see his ressurection scene…..was so much hyped ……I thought it would be really epic…..but frankly I am dissapointed. …maybe it was my own expectation that got in the way of my enjoyment of the scene …maybe it was the fact that I knew he was coming. …
but I wasn’t moved … that scene the whole build up didn’t really hit me as much as I thought it would. …
anyone else felt that way? ?
In my country we can only stream the episodes and so we don’t see the “what’s next teasers”. Anyone share a link here?
singedbylife,
Atish Vaze,
That delivery of “Now it ends.” is really off putting tbh. Not everyone can pull a Sean Bean I suppose. Still looks great though.
Loved IT!!!!!!!!!
The North: Ramsey is among my favourite characters. I always thought him a bit childish but it was so good to see him as ”Lord Bolton”. Sansas scene with Brienne and Theon were great. She couldn’t tell Brienne about the rape…I almost cried. I did cry when she hugged Theon.
KL: Perfect. Loved seeing Tommen trying to become stronger, it was also nice to see him admit he was weak. Lena is just killing it and Pryce makes me love him even more with every scene he has. Good to find out that they know Trystane is dead.
Meereen: I fucking love Tyrion just being tired of all this crap and throwing jokes at Varys. The dragon scene was amazing. Tyrion was drawn to the Dragons by his desire to see them up-close. I liked how he realised, at the end, how crazy the entire thing was.
The Wall: It was fine……….IT WAS GREAT!!! No warging bullshit, no old gods bullshit, they fired a gun by having Mel see Thoros and they fired it up. This is exactly why I love D&D.
I loved the scene with Davos and Mel. Davos is a good man, he is kind to Mel, after all she, as much as he knows, suffers the same thing as he does, they lost Stannis and Shireen. Davos of course doesn’t know the truth, yet.
I also liked that he tried to make Mel have faith in her powers again.
He may not like then but he, above anyone else, knows that her powers are real. So it’s worth a try.
S6 started amazingly well for me. I never doubted the writers a second, they have never dissapointed me as of yet.
Wow. We have totally different tastes. A shot of Euron laughing his ass off would’ve brought that scene down to Dorne-level for me.
The writers have already badly bungled one horrible AFFC/ADWD subplot (Dorne). I’m grateful they didn’t do the same with the other horrible AFFC/ADWD subplot (Iron Islands). Here’s hoping that by giving Yara/Theon the Vicatrion plot, and toning down some of the more extreme characteristics of book Euron (as well as giving him an actual personality, something the show Sand Snakes sorely lacks), the writers can redeem the Iron Islands story.
Mihnea,
Forgot about the Ironborn.
EURON HAS NO EYE-PATCH, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They already won me over with him, with this alone. But I also loved Balon and Yara.
And ”I am the Drowned God” was much better then ”I am the storm”.
Jon’s jumpscare like rezzing really reminded me of when Jaime’s hand was cut off. It was all so sudden, and then they played that modern “Bear and the Maiden Fair” cover. I feel like they were trying to achieve the same effect here, and it worked 😀
El-Bobbie,
It’s already been established who Azor Ahai is in the show, and it looks clear as day it’s Daenerys.
Dragonmcmx,
Exactly why I didn’t want them to have that exact dialogue in the show. Something are just not good on TV.
I can also see the biggest book-purist complaint for next episode. Dayne not having Dawn.
El-Bobbie,
My point was, regardless of who Jon is, we were given no reason why he should be resurrected. Why him? People die on GoT all the time. Why was his resurrection so important? Was it important? It didn’t seem important to me. Mel just happened to be in the right place at the right time, if it was Mel that brought him back. And yet I know that Jon didn’t die in vain, his death and resurrection have to have a function within the story. It all happened for a reason we’ll understand later, but right now it all seems very random to me. That was my problem with the episode.
Evi,
And that’s why I loved it.
The prophecies are the biggest thing I dislike about the books. But I do think they will adress this later, even in episode 3 perhaps as we have TOJ then.
Why bring him back? He was their friend, he was a good man, he was a good leader, they can’t just let him die like that, especially when there is something they could try.
To me these ”mundane” reasons are stronger then any prophecy.
King in Bulawayo,
It’s clear in the books as well.
I think The Onion knight resurrected Jon, and liken him to Thoros of Mir they are similar characters. Both follow other men who they admire and both have a similar history as not exactly model citizens who’ve changed to follow a higher calling. And at the time of their first resurrection were not really believers of The red God.
It’s flimsy, I just got the feeling while watching that he was praying for Jon.
I suspect that in the books, Jon’s soul wargs into Ghost, and that, along with Mel’s ritual, is what resurrects him.
The show, however, has done nothing to set up Jon’s warning abilities (or of any of the other Starks), preferring to keep that ability solely for Bran. So to have Jon suddenly warging into Ghost would’ve looked cheesy on the show.
I do think that scene deliberately had Ghost as the only one to witness Jon’s resurrection as an “Easter egg” of sorts for the book version. (Kinda like how when Arya was selling oysters in S5, they had a cat run across the screen as a call out to “Cat of the Canals.”)
Evi,
I think it’s been established. Who did Davos send Ed for? The Wildlings. Because he knew they owed Jon their life. Jon is the guy who can unite the Wildlings to fight against the war that Davos KNOWS is coming. Jon is the guy whose main priority was preparing for the WW. And that’s a priority for Davos too. We saw him read the letter from CB and alert Stannis to what was happening up North. He’s the reason Stannis ever went.
If I remember correctly, Sam told Jon about Bran and Rickon being alive in season 4. So he knows his little brothers escaped from WF. Getting news (a pink letter) about Rickon’s captivity could be what would push Jon to march towards WF. It’s also possible that Sansa would decide not to head to CB for fear of Ramsay following that path to find her, thus, prolonging the wait for a Stark reunion. Knowing that Sansa is somewhere out there and may be in danger, Jon could ask Davos (now a trusted ally) to look for her and they’d meet at the Bear Islands. Meanwhile, Jon would be preparing the wildlings for the battle. I hope I’m wrong about Sansa though because I’d like to see her and Jon to finally reunite by ep 3 or 4. And I’m still hoping (as I said a number of times here) it’s fake Rickon that Ramsay will get. We’ll know next week!
Allthegoodnamesaregone,
It was Mel.
Please notice me 🙁
“I am the storm” sounded a bit too much like “I am of the night.”
And all of Euron’s pronouncements sounded a bit campy.
I am not convinced show-Euron will get a Red Viper-like welcome from the masses…
I jumped out of my seat and actually cheered at the ending! … fantastic!
I also loved Tyrion and the dragons … Amazing Episode!
Funny thing. I’m a history nerd and was studying the Ottoman Empire last week.
In Ottoman tradition when a son inherits his fathers throne/tittle he would always kill all his brothers, no matter the age.
If he didn’t he would be considered weak. The lords and army where basically insist that the new ruler kill his brothers, so a civil war would be avoided.
Funny to see this play on screen as well so soon after I read that.
Did they cut the scene with Pycelle?
Lavignac,
I agree, but I always thought Euron was a joke in the books too.
I liked ”I am the Drowned God” though and loved how when the bridge sways Balon almost falls while Euron doesn’t even flinch.
well…at least the hounds will not be hungry for a long, long, loooong time
Masterofthrones,
I think it’s Ramsay and a few Bolton soldiers that will be burning in Winterfell. Lord Karstark brief introduction, clearly showed us the sort of man he is and his playing the game of thrones.
And way to ignore the elephant in the room Tyrion: it’s all good that these dragons won’t harm the people they know best, but are you not at least mentioning that you’re willing to take chances that they won’t eat more random children?
El-Bobbie,
Well, I think the main question to ask is not “Why was he resurrected?” but “Why was he killed in the first place?”. I think he was killed because a) GRRM wanted to have a huge cliffhanger to WoW and b) him dying was the only way Jon can join the war in the north without formally having to break his Nights Watch oath. However, I must admit that I would have them expected to speak the “and now his watch has ended” words before he became resurrected. I actually also expected them to have him step out of the fire to give him a Dany-like Targaryan moment and that they would somehow connect this to the Tower of Joy flashback. Now the question is, when and how (if at all) will Jon learn about his mother?
So I can see your point that it was sort of disappointing that we did not get anything of this sort (yet). On the other hand, this scene smoothly brings Jon, Mel, Davos, and Tormund together as allies, and it will be very interesting to see them fighting the war in the north in the future episodes.
Nah, I’m with you.
It’s cool that they seem to want to move the story forward, it just sucks that stuff really doesn’t need to make sense. I’m still looking forward to this season to at the very least get some possible answers that people have been waiting a very long time for.
Tyron_DragonRider,
Dany’s pyre moment didn’t happen because she was Targaryen. It happened with magic unique to her and her dragons. No one in this series is ever going to step of a fire like Dany.
Tyron_DragonRider,
Yeah I was expecting some stuff along those lines too
However as my brain starts to function, it is apparent he looks rather different
Probably because after so long he’s no longer in his NW clothing, despite having no “and now his Watch has ended”, the fact he arises without them is symbolically powerful
My pet-theory had always revolved around his funeral Pyre, but obviously there is a homage to Bran in S1E2, plus it is nice that when he wakes up, it’s just him and his closest companion (Direwolf) and everything goes from there
Predictions for next week, ToJ opening, “Promise me Ned” with his baby birth followed by him getting up off the Table as naked as his name day, symbolic of him being “re-born”
Big question for me is if and how he’ll be different, show Beric didn’t seem to suffer the memory loss etc of his book counterpart so the showrunners may be exploring the whole “death changes you” differently
El-Bobbie,
Agreed.
Oh, let me predict a wave of comment threads beginning with WYLLIS! This week!
Davos new faith in Jon’s crucial importance and Melisandres specific ability somehow felt poorly justified. Did they delete a scene or two? He could have lamented on what Jon could have done that he can’t anymore, or something.
In the flashback, was the taller figure Ser Rodrik, or big brother Brandon?
Flayed Potatoes,
Good catch – I didn’t get that first time, but I’ve seen a few people call that out. I saw a few people also suggesting that this confirms R+L=D, because it proves that Ned really is Jon’s father; but I think it just shows that Jon got this mannerism from Ned, who presumably trained him the same way. He also says “winter is coming” a lot, tries to act “honourably” and believes that the man who passes the sentence must wield the sword. Whoever fathered him biologically, Ned is really his father. It makes sense that he acts and thinks like the man who raised him as a son
R+L=D would be the most disappointing ‘plot twist’ of all time, anyway, so I’m hoping those people are wrong. That would be weak. Hey, guess what? That Targaryen Princess you love so much is really, secretly, a Targaryen Princess!
That was EXACTLY my thought… 😉
Austen,
Hmmm, looks like it – unless that was mistakenly released and will show up in a later episode.
I loved this episode. I cannot express enough how much I loved it. Were it not for the fact that I’ve got my kids to look after, I’d be watching it again right now!
For a relatively short episode (at only 54 minutes), they managed to pack an awful lot in. There were the usual tear jerking moments (Sansa and Theon, Cersei and Tommen) and some of the usual grisly Game of Thrones moments where you can’t quite believe what they’re about to do (poor Walda and her baby). This episode also brought with it a mythical element in the flashback at the start and that climactic ending. I had plenty of laugh out loud moments, times I was perched precariously on the edge of my seat, moments where I cheered in triumph and shouted at my screen “they’re not actually going to show us are they?” (Walda). And after that ending I did a ridiculously silly victory dance around the room. We all knew it was coming, but to see Jon open his eyes was beautiful. He is without a doubt my favourite character and I am beyond thrilled he is back so soon.
Having watched the preview for next week, I am so excited about the TOJ scene, but a little worried that it won’t convey the same tone/poignancy that I read into that scene in the books. When young Ned utters “now it ends” in the preview, there seems to be a darkness and anger in his voice, whereas when I read that scene, to me, it seemed to be with a reluctance and a sadness that Ned spoke those words. Maybe that’s just me and I read something into it that wasn’t there, but I think with any scene like this, where he fans have been waiting for it for a long time and where it is alrwady revered in a way as an iconic moment from the books, that there is quite a lot of potential for it to wrong. I was a show watcher before I read the books (though I have read them a few times now), so until this season I never had any expectations about a scene/character. I have complete faith in the show runners and amazing directors they have on this programme that it will be amazing, but I do worry that it will change what I imagined that scene to be when I read it.
Also, I am interested to see how the situation with Ransey develops. I think they established last episode that everyone is terrified of him and while I know no one is going to believe his “Roose was poisoned” story, who will have the courage to stand against him? And if they do, what is their alternative? Until Sansa reveals herself, who will they follow?
I am so stoked they mentioned the Manderleys!! Cannot wait for that speech.
All in all, a wonderful near-hour of television. Well done to all the amazing people who brought it to life.
just look at the promo for next episode, the Toj happens, so lol
Doesn’t it seem a bit predictable, though? If that’s the case, we’ve basically been told up front from Book 1 / Season 1. The prophecy will have basically revealed the entire story, if it’s that simple. I prefer the idea that prophecy is ambiguous, that there is no ‘Azor Ahai’, and that people will have to sort this out for themselves rather than relying on ‘fate’. I mean, Dany being the saviour who swoops in with her dragons and saves the realm from the White Walkers is an ending which the most casual show watcher would probably have predicted right from the beginning, and she clearly fits the prophecy to a T – is it really going to go down like that? I guess it might, but I’m hoping it will be a little less predictable than that.
Jared,
You’re awesome!!
Ser Podrick,
I agree with you. I don’t think GRRM would write something so obvious. His works are a lesson in explosive twists and revelations as well as things not being as they seem. I would be very surprised if Dany was AA purely because that seems to be the obvious choice. I also think there won’t be one AA, but instead many of the lead characters will team together to fulfil the prophecy.
And, of course, the Tower of Joy scene with the revelation of who Jon Snow’s mother is next Sunday … on Mother’s Day!
El-Bobbie,
Well, obviously you are right. I just think that having John step out of his burning funeral pyre would have been a great moment for him, and connecting it to the Tower of Joy scene would have made it a very powerful scene. So Mel “just” speaking the words and resurrecting him is somewhat less epic than I had anticipated. Don’t get me wrong, its a great scene, but it clearly hints to Jon and his resurrection not having exactly the importance for saving the realm (AA prophecies) that some fans (including me) would have liked to see.
That picture also makes me think that Davos may be starting to wonder whether Shireen ended in the same way…..seeing Melisandre burning people, he might start to connect the dots somehow, especially if there has been some more dialogue asking how Shireen died exactly, and Mel is evasive about it. Burning a child would obviously horrify Davos, and this could show him that Mel is capable of such a thing….
So much for the famous ‘leaked plot’ from a few months ago, which said that Jon would actually be resurrected by sacrificing Olly (*lol*).
Hopefully Jon isn’t coming back as an asshole who starts burning people alive and generally acting like a dick.
ploppster,
He just took a nap.
Ser Podrick</stro I just hope Mel survives the series :S
Same way most of people expect her to win a throne. We’ll see how this ends but something tells me neither of those will happen. It’s not going to be just Daeny leading them or saving them alone. We have others too. Also Iron Throne is what 99% fans predicts with Daeny on it at the end. It can ends this way but who knows at this point. Ending is the same for both books and the show so George might come up with a surprise.
Idea about Azor Ahai being interpretated the way people want it. Well, it can happen. Look at Tormund, he said they think Jon is some sort of a God. They might really believe he’s the one to led them and then we have this line from Tormund about Mance when he said “I thought he was the one to lead us through Long Night” and with this revelation abot Jon. He changed his opinion.
like, for real? There is people who disliked the episode?
They give to you one of the greatest episode of the show, completely strong and awesome beginning to end, and just bitching and moaning…
you gotta be fucking kidding me.
I didn’t necessarily say I wanted a shot of him laughing maniacally, but it would be better than him wounded by Balon. I think they should’ve cut it after the overhead shot of the ocean tbh. Stupid to show Euron hurting after Balon takes the plunge.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Balon was chosen as king for a reason. Just because he lived to an older age, doesn’t mean he was defenseless. He had to have been The Man in his day.
What would have been stupid is if he hadn’t shown some resistance.
Absolutely! Sansa’s little smile was perfect as she recalled that Arya would not be dressed like a lady.
I loved this episode. So many wonderful moments: Ghost’s awareness that Jon was “coming back,” Tormund’s determination, the appearance of Euron. This is one of my favorite episodes in the series.
And I agree that it was a young Ser Rodrick (with the mutton chops) in the yard at WF training the Stark boys.
http://i.imgur.com/iWyueVD.jpg
WOW!!!that was some serious piece of TV!! When Ghost reanimated with lit up eyes, hearts stopped around the world in anticipation & in that final shot an entire fandom was brought back to life! A+
The flashbacks were glorious & I think the parallels drawn between Ned & Jon about the importance of shield wielding somewhat reflect he is very much his father’s son & reinstate his status as a true blue Stark.
The fate of Roose & Walda was predicted here by many including myself. Only wish stabbing of Roose was accompanied with”Lannisters send their regards….j/k”.
Snowbowl is coming!!
A MAGNIFICENT EPISODE!!! I’M SO HAPPY 😀
…
Okay, you think he´s going to take that horse and just ride it back to Winterfell where the flaying psychopathic babykiller resides? Getting through that gate and just say “Hy fellas imma back!” ?
Why, by the old Gods and the new ones, he should do that?! O_0
No, he´s going back to HIS home. Pyke. In the season´s trailer you can see him hugging with Yara and Alfie Allen was reported to be filming on the Iron Islands location.
Preview for next episode…
First scene at the Wall:
Jon: “‘morning, guys!”
Edd: “Wakey, wakey…”
Davos: “IT’S ALIVE! [crazy laughter] [flashlights]”
Tormund menacing some crows with a crossbow, turns around [joyful]: “Oh boy!”
The crossbow accidently shoots… Jon goes to his knees…
Mel: [angry] “Well, that’s just perfect… Thanx! Seven hells! … errrr… The night is dark and full of errors…”
And so, GoT get’s a ressurection running gag.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Ser Podrick,
Che,
The “that’s too predictable” argument falls flat to me. What is too predictable? And does it matter?
Didn’t we all predict that Jon would be resurrected? Is the act lessened in some way because we predicted it?
Aren’t we all predicting that the Starks, at the end of all this, will be redeemed and rule the North once again? We all know it’s going to happen.
And the prophesy states a warrior will pull a magic sword from a fire. What’s more predictable than a traditional warrior actually wielding a magic sword? A tiny girl, with no battle training, wielding a flaming dragon is far less predictable than that. Dragons have been compared to flaming swords in the books, but not in the show. Show-watchers are still looking for a warrior with a magic sword. They have no reason to think that Lightbringer will be Drogon. So no, not too predictable.
And I don’t get why Dany being a savior figure is more predictable than Jon being a savior figure. I mean, how often has he been compared to Jesus Christ on this very website.
Also, there were no Dorne scenes this time! Coincidence? I think not!
Lots of great highlights here in a very, very strong episode here. The Ironborn section, the flashback, the beautiful Sansa and Brienne scene, and the part we all knew was coming, but I don’t care because it was such a great fist-pump moment.
So what did you think of Roose’s death then? He’s one of the craftier minds in Westeros, a calculating bad ass, and he got taken out like a total chump. I guess no one in the Bolton army was loyal to him? He must have not been that powerful if he could just be killed and there wouldn’t be any repercussions. Ridiculous.
I’m disappointed. I wanted Jon to come back as because he has dragon blood not this way.
El-Bobbie,
Completely agreed!!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
He wasn’t exactly stabbed amongst guards or soldiers (like Doran, but yeah I didn’t like the Dorne plot). That maester is terrified of Ramsay and the Karstark didn’t have any chance to do anything. For all his craftiness and wisdom, it is Roose’s arrogance that undoes him. Him saying “you will always be my firstborn” shows that he knew Ramsay’s insecurity, but thought he could control him. It is a typical shortsighted decision by Ramsay, which probably dooms his family. He would always have been the heir, at least until that child came of age. His father was his best chance to consolidae power in the North and by murdering that chance, he has doomed himself by his impulsiveness, jealousy and ambition. That mad dog tag his father warned him about is definitely coming back to bite him in the ass.
Anonymous,
No Dany also…
Meaning?
Ser Podrick,
Che,
Yeah because RLJ and Jon coming back is not the obvious and most predictable thing out there ..
George has written some straightforward and predictable things like that with Jon and cersei and her prophecy and much more …
It has been said many times that the story is not about the hero fulfilling a prophecy but characters actions making them as a hero ..
Dany never know anything about prophecy …she just makes her decisions and go with it ..the same valyrians with dragons enslaved essos ..dany the last valyrian princess alive using the same dragons freeing people ..its all about choices and human heart at conflict …
And the fact that George dropped all the clues in the first book back when he thought it will be trilogy only to become a series which will never end ..doesn’t make all those clues and chapters of dany in AGOT go away ..
Its the same thing happened with Jon GRrm had all the hints dropped and ToJ in first books …
Can anyone call RLJ is most predictable so hope he says as Ned son …we can’t right .did anyone thought harry was not the chosen one
And AA alone is not the mystery anyway the mystery always was Dragon with three heads and what the three heads referring to..
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Noone except Karstark and the Maester saw it happen. Karstark was clearly in on it, and the Maester was bullied into silence. I read the spoilers yesterday and was worried that noone might give a damn, but it was done way better than I had expected.
Geralt of Rivia,
I actually think Tormund is taking to Melisandre.
Why would they think Jon is a god, he’s not the one who had the magic to bring someone back. That was Mel. She literally played God by brining Jon back.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The soldiers didn’t see Ramsey kill Roose…..
And yes I liked how he went. It was pathetic, it was at the hands of the monster he created, he died the same way Rob did.
I loved his death just like I loved Tywin’s. Both great/smart men who died like they were worthless.
Ser Podrick,
I don’t believe in R +L = D
I think it’s just nature vs nurture. Jon learned a lot of his lessons from Ned and he will always see him as his father, just like Theon does. D&D went to great lengths last season to draw parallels between Jon/Ned and Sansa/Cat, showing how they raised and influenced them.
El-Bobbie,
I don’t believe the show runners have introduced the book AA prophesy.
BubbleGutts192,
His Targaryen side is no more important than his Stark side. I don’t think him having a dragon blood is in any way significant for him being resurrected. It might come later on with dragons and bonding with one of them. Just look what happened with Tyrion. He’s got to have drop of right Targaryen blood otherwise he would be like Quentyn.
koempel,
Yeah but Walda and baby were killed in the kennels which is right out in the open. Think no one would notice hounds destroying two humans? And Ramsey says to say that Roose was poisoned, I guess no one loyal to Roose would want to see the body for themselves? It’s a convenient way to advance the plot when you want Ramsey to be in charge without Roose around, but it isn’t great writing.
dragonmcmx,
Also what Ramsey did afterwards, with Walda, doesn’t bother the soldiers because that’s what hundreds of Lords before did that.
Not to say it has historical accuracy. Like I said in Ottoman culture it was almost mandatory to kill your brothers as not to have any rivals to your position.
It wasn’t only accepted but it was encouraged!
El-Bobbie,
I don’t think that we can compare the inevitability of Jon’s resurrection and the theory that Dany is AA.
Jon had to come back and there is also (though it is yet to be revealed exactly how) going to be a reason why he had to die for his character to develop. He is one of the story’s two most important characters and with such an enormous amount of development put into his story (much of which has not come to light yet), his ressurection went beyond predictable and was in fact, dare I say it, inevitable and a necessary part of the plot.
The prophecy on the other hand seems far more vague. GRRM seems to make a point of writing twists into his story that move away from the typical fantasy tropes and into a much more realistic realm. Characters do things that genuinely shock us and revelations are made that are completely out of the blue all the time. In this story nothing is as it initially seems.
I would just be very surprised if the character that seems to fit almost all the criteria for AA actually ends up being AA. I just feel that nothing has been that simple in this story.
In truth I don’t think there is any one single AA character. I think that the prophecy will be loosely used to explain the actions of several characters, perhaps even a triad of characters (the three heads of the dragon).
The way in which Jon was brought back, seemingly directly due to the whim of the Red God, suggests that he is of great importance. Then there is the matter of Mel seeing him in the flames when she asks Rhollr for visions of AA. I’m not saying it’s definitely Jon, but I do feel he will play a part in the prophecy in the same way Dang will.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Why would they be bothered if he killed Walda?
What should they do? Follow a baby or the man who defeated Stannis?
Look at my comment above. It has huge historical accuracy.
So glad that the majority of us, who really believed that Jon Snow would come back to life are vindicated. Congratulations to all those involved in the show who strongly denied that any such thing was going to happen; for the most part, they stuck to their guns. It was cutting it fine, when Tormund (at least I think it was him) went to get some wood to burn the body. I said until I saw his body burning on a funeral pyre I would believe that he would be back. There was just a sneaking doubt (after Eddard and Rob Stark leaving the stage) that perhaps Jon might too, just to confound us all. I almost feel I can forgive the Dorne scenarios, almost.
El-Bobbie,
Good job sir ..you have said everything i wantwd to say
And I agree with you on tormund also I think he is saying that to Mel ..who has more one who came back or one who brought him back .
Think people won’t put two and two together after Walda and baby are ripped to pieces right out in the open? Think they wouldn’t want to see Roose’s body? It’s not really so easy to kill powerful men like that without anyone asking questions.
I fear we’re a week away from complaining about ironborn plot as “Sea Snakes”
Well maybe Tywin should have been surrounded by guards while he was taking a shit and stayed safely alive – bad GRRM!
The books and the show have always been about choices and consequences as much as the shock value of the deaths. What matters now is the outcomes of Ramsay’s decision and we don’t know that yet until we see it play out. Ramsay had the fear factor as well as the protection and backing of his father but now he just has the fear factor – will that be enough…?
Well why not wait and see where this goes before getting all huffy puffy about it?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
No they won’t. Because killing your brothers after you took over was common place back then.
At most they would think Ramsey is removing competition and solidify his hold on power by removing any rivals.
Roose gets the credit for leading them to victory against Stannis. He gets the credit for advancing House Bolton to being Warden of the North. So all of a sudden they’re going to want to follow some crazy psychopath?
Ser Podrick,
I thought people would come up with it. I would like to ask them where is Ashara or Brandon? 😀 Btw it was a nice nod to Jon and Olly moment at the all from 5×01. It more shows that Jon threated Olly as his little brother to me. Which makes For The Watch even more heartbreaking. Wonder, what Jon will do with him and ohers. If he’s truly changed burning might be an option.
The problem is that show never for once doubted anything about Daeny and her heritage. It would feel out of nowhere if for example both Daeny and Jon were Rhaegar’s children or Daeny be Rhaegar’s kid. She’s got blood of the First Men already. It really serves nothing in the story for her to be their child. Daeny is a Targaryen and her whole story is built on it. Fighting as a last Targaryen to reclaim her throne. For Jon who lived whole his life as bastard, realizing he might be legitimate, child of Rhaegar who he learnt to rape and kidnapped Lyana, Targaryen either way bastard/true born and possible bonding with dragon, his relationship with Ned. Game changer. Besides we were presented with clues in the show more than once. It started last season and reveal this season.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
It won’t. I like Ramsey, mostly because of Iwan, but his clock started ticking.
Roose was the smart one, he commanded both fear and respect. Ramsey has only fear.
And fear alone isn’t enough.
It is better to be feared than loved…..
That was such an amazing episode start to finish that even after a good night’s sleep, I still can’t organize my thoughts into coherent commentary. Just amazing! And that was the episode the 10 months of hype had me ready for. And not just the rise of “Jon Snow”, but a Lyanna Stark sighting and the “Now it begins”, “No, now it ends” in next week’s preview. Oh man, it’s going to be a long 7 days.
It’s a bit late but I’m watching now. Deepwood Motte!!!
HegemonDrone,
Yes they have. Mel and Stannis’ very first scene. Mentions bleeding stars, and a warrior drawing a flaming sword out of a fire. She has also mentioned the lord’s chosen being born amidst salt and smoke. The entire book prophesy has pretty much been said by Mel at some point.
History is far more complicated than just, someone kills brother and moves right into power and everything else falls into place.
It would’ve been 10x better to have Roose kill Ramsey as soon as the baby came out. No one would’ve saw that coming.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Ramsey led the attack on Stannis.
They would have followed him anyway. He was the heir, Roose was playing with him, true, but only to motivate him and make him more careful. He married him to Sansa, he gave him command of the army.
Even with a new boy being born, Ramsey would still have inherited the lordship. Only Roose could have changed that.
But he didn’t, because Roose always intended for Ramsey to follow him.
So now they have a choice. Follow a baby or Ramsey. Ramsey lead the attack on Stannis. He is ”strong”, he kills their enemies and shows no mercy.
Yes them choosing to follow Ramsey over a newborn baby is the sanest thing they could’ve done.
I will but I doubt there will be a mutiny amongst the Bolton’s.
Unsullied here, skipped the comments and stuff.
But I am really curious, why the Umbers would side with the Boltons – especially IF they have Rickon… I mean… King Robb didn’t do anything to them, did he?
El-Bobbie,
Good job sir ..you have said everything i wantwd to say
And I agree with you on tormund also I think he is saying that to Mel ..who has more one who came back or one who brought him back .
LatrineDiggerBrian,
And that’s were I disagree. Ramsey killing Roose was set-up perfectly. Just to change it because people ”saw” it coming isn’t a option.
And history isn’t more complex in this instance. New Ottoman rulers always killed they brothers after taking power, if they had brothers left, they usually would have done it before.
And no one, cared, because it was the norm back then.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
There is no reason for a mutiny.
As it stands now, I love the parallels between Doran, Roose and Balon’s deaths. They’re all personal, up-close, sudden and committed by family, and they happen within two episodes. My favorite is deffinately Balon and Euron on the bridge. They really managed to add great suspense to that scene, even though it was obvious Balon was going to fall at some point. It’s probably the most sudden of the three betrayal because we have no idea who Euron is before this scene. But it very quickly and very effectively gives us the information we need. Euron is simpy mad. I fucking love the story of him being tied to a mast for fear that he would jump over board during a storm and then when the storm cleared he cut out all the crews tounges. ‘I needed silence.’ hahahahah. I was worried, he would be too similar to Ramsay and Joffrey, but it looks like he’s all his own. Patrick Malahide was also great in his last scene, with all Balons bitterness and anger. He was a brilliant Balon Greyjoy. I don’t mind Dorne, but this subplot on Pyke was introduced much more intruiqingly.
Dee,
They hate the wildlings.
Mihnea,
How do we know that? (did I miss something?) haha
Damphairintheshowplease!,
And above all. HE HAS NO EYE-PATCH!!! Thank the gods!!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Depends on how you look at that scene. I assume he went to kill Walda immediately after, a bit too late for anyone to stop him after she has been torn to shreds. Of course most of the men assume foul play, but nobody saw it and everybody knows Ramsay and you can guess what he does to the first one to utter a bad word. I don’t see any common soldier stepping up, just keep your head down and stay alive. Based on Locke’s troops and Ramsay’s men (for example during Moat Cailin), these are hardened veterans and quite used to horror. They are fighting for a house with a Flayed Man on its banners. Were they in the room/kennels they might have reacted, but after that it was too late. It is not like Roose’s cold demeanor must have inspired a lot of extreme loyalty.
I do feel sad about Roose’s demise and wished he was still alive, but I honestly believe he would win (against Starks). Ramsay has made his bed and it will be a sweet moment when he realises it. As some commented before, Roose was responsible for his own demise by creating a monster that in the end he could not control. It is a fitting end for a cold man, yet the show has lost a great character once more.
Dee,
Maybe it’s fake Rickon but it could be for power or out of fear?
It looks like they betrayed Starks and it has nothing to do with Wildlings or they try to play them, which is unlikely. What’s more surprising the Manderly’s are also with the Boltons. In the books it’s complete opposite and show devaitd from the source material.
Ramsay’s reputation is well known. In the preview it doesn’t look like Smalljon to me. I thought he might bring the gift to Ramsay as defacto new leader of Umbers. Since Greatjon suddenly dissapeared. I know the actor had an intense relationship with D&D and never been seen since season 2. I really liked Gratjon and one of the fighters even Jaime feared.
Dee,
Their family members are probably held hostage by the Freys, like the Manderlys.
Shouldn’t Walda have been in bed resting after giving birth?
Can we take a moment to reflect on how much as happened in TWO episodes? It’s insane.
They weren’t kidding when they said this season hits the ground running.
In the episode 3 preview we see Umber men bringing their “gift” in a wagon to Winterfell.
And Bolton Junior conversing with his two new best buddies, Karstark Junior and Umber Junior. Seems the young generation raises its claims to do things its own way…
As Karstark says: “It’s time for new blood in the North.”
Geralt of Rivia,
So you think it is just flat out betrayal?
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes she was – as the Maester said. “She is resting” and ramsay didn’t give a F**K.
SO, Maester probably told her that Lord Bolton needs her asap.
Dee,
It’s a theory, sorry.
Not confirmed.
Their castle is close to the Gift, the NW lands, actually it’s the closest and furthest into the north.
I think the theory goes that they hate the wildlings because they raided their lands. I can’t exactly remember well.
Also I don’t think will see the Greatjon. So who knows how the new lord Umber might be…
I don’t really like it either but will wait and see how it will play out.
Kamali,
Forget about it.
Some people want to see exactly what they picture in their minds, but it’s never gonna happen like they want to.
I find it pointless to argue with those fans, because nothing will ever satisfy them.
Gendry,
I always did too…not sure it was a popular assumption, but I think we are on the right track.
dragonbringer,
My own prediction is that the ´SWMTW’ mentioned by the Dosh Khaleen is actually Drogon, Daenerys’ symbolic son and her main instrument to conquer the world.
Dee,
Not that she had a choice anyway.
Was Lyanna in the preview for “Oathbreaker”?
Mihnea,
Well nothing you are saying is portrayed in the show. You know those details from the books.
So I guess we take it that it is flat out betrayal. Ugh.
Atish Vaze,
Thanks!
Mihnea,
exactly
koempel,
It’s not confirmed in the show though.
Oh yeah you’re right 🙂 So what did you think of Euron?!
Because all of a sudden there’s a bunch of wildings below the Wall, so the Umbers are looking at the Warden of the North to help them take care of the wildings. And at this moment, it happens to be Lord Bolton.
All of the Umbers who were loyal to the Starks were slaughtered at the Red Wedding.
Also, if the North bannermen know that Jon Snow is the Lord Commander of the NIght’s Watch, they also know that Jon Snow (aka Ned’s bastard) willingly let the wildings beyond the Wall. They probably are not feeling any loyalty towards the Starks right now.
Dee,
Perhaps. Will see more in the coming episodes.
Jack Bauer 24,
No eye-patch!!!!!! 🙂
This is the last time, I swear..
SO excited about this season I can’t wait for more. Unlike last epi (which I still loved), I think there was a perfect balance of sucking up to book fans (Stark flash back/Greyjoy) and unexpected exciting stuff (Jon, Sansa/Brienne/Theon, Tyrion and DRAGNZ).
My sullied but less obsessed Husband is now 100% on board the hype train too. He’s even started reading shit online again (last few seasons he was content just to watch the show and let me freak out between weeks).
My un-sullied brother is still like “well I guess that was nice that happened but surely he’ll just die pointlessly later or something.”
I think A Show has traumatized him…
Mihnea,
Hence ‘probably’ ;-). That Wildling aspect is interesting. Would explain why the Umbers only give Rickon to the Boltons at this point in time (I assume they noticed a shitload of Wildlings on their side of the wall). If word reached them that a Stark bastard did it, they might think twice. I still assume one of the Bolton bannermen will be forced into their service because of hostages and eventually will betray them, but that might be mostly wishful thinking since Lord Manderly is one of the few highlights of the 5th book for me (no he doesn’t have to be ridiculously fat 🙂 ).
Jack Bauer 24,
Well I REALLY enjoyed that bridge scene. And Euron is a very interesting character so far. I am excited to see him in another scene without a storm. hahaha
But I was really intrigued by the storm/drowned gods discussion.
I need a rewatch to catch everything
koempel,
We did get some info that
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think it’s gonna have importance later on. Yara is gonna see that cut to Eurons face. I personally liked, that old Balon managed to cut his oponent. He had been a great reaver many years ago.
“I killed my cousin”
What does Jaimie mean?
He didn’t kill anyone, did he?
Not at all. In the books, the Manderlys are with the Freys and Boltons at the beginning. It isn’t until Lord “Too-Fat-To-Sit-A-Horse” secures the return of his son (who survived the Red Wedding massacre) when he finally unveils his plan to Davos (“The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done”).
Besides, if you’ve seen the casting calls, you’d know that
El-Bobbie,
Yes at this rate I confodent that tyrells also will die at the end of this season making way for dorne and martells hmm sorry sandsnakes ..
By the way can you elaborate what was said in the small council meeting between tyriom and missandei and varys and greyworm…were dragons stopped eating after dany went .
Thanks in advance looks like iam having some problems posting .
Ispahan75,
I have seen many say this …but that doesn’t make sense the one who is going to unite and lead them is dany not drogon and the prophecy like AAR and TPTWp talks about a promised prince I’m ancient prophecy ..which makes more sense to consider that it marks all three talks about one and its actually a princess not Prince .
Mihnea,
I will be a happy man if that comes true. Always felt that Ned’s morality would endure and that ‘ruling through fear’ would eventually prove unsustainable.
With all the Lyanna love I thought someone would attempt to discover the young actor cast. Looking at the end credits, Cordelia Hill might be her name because nothing on the internet, thereby this could be her first screen role. Someone here can check the agencies for that name and verify if it’s her.
Personally I cannot believe HBO hasn’t released the girls name or her agency, after all this is an important start for her career.
Jack Bauer 24,
I can only speak for myself. After giving birth I felt like making handstands and was certainly able and more than willing to leave the bed. It all depends on your body and the size of the baby. In lots of cultures, a woman gave birth and walks away with the baby right after. But for lots of women it’s not that easy of course and before modern hospitals, lots of women died giving childbirth so I’m not making light of it, only saying that for some a birth is not hard on the body once it’s over. I could see her being used to women having to act tough after births in the home of Walder Frey.
The Blood of Winterfull,
He killed Alton Lannister, the spy chosen by Robb to be his messenger to Cersei.
In S2 Jaime was in prison & he killed his cousin in a bid to escape Robb’s custody. It almost worked.
Josh L.,
Yeah, I can see the wildlings explanation, but I am not ready to make that assumption because we dont know (show only peeps) that the Umbers REALLY hate the wildlings and that they are close to the wall and have their lands.
but, I can see how the umbers who were loyal to the starks were massacred at the red wedding, and maybe the new lords are over the starks.
Not just that … if it’s not exactly the way they pictured, they whine that D&D is betraying GRRM’s vision.
If it’s exactly the way they pictured it, they whine that the show is so predictable and boring.
The writers literally cannot win with those kinds of fans.
singedbylife,
Same experience for me. It was stupid & annoying that the hospital made me stay for 2 days in that stupid little room. I could easily have walked home… Was my first kid too.
Keep your shield up or I’ll ring your head like a bell. Must be a Stark thing. A cue they learned from Rodrik. Nice line.
He killed one of his cousin when he tried to escape being Robb Stark’s prisoner (he also killed one of Lord Karstark’s sons in the prison break). He was recaptured, but the escape attempt riled up Lord Karstark and the Stark army to the point they were ready to murder him. That led to Cat Stark setting him free with Brienne.
Ben Stein Stark,
His actual name is Walder. they called him Whe show didn’t want people to think that was Walder Frey. So they called him Willis.
Micheal Selvage,
A reasonable idea.
Walder Frey. is among the most hated people in the show. No need to associate Hodor with him.
Fantastic episode. I don’t think there was a scene that I wasn’t completely engrossed in. We might be past the books, but this episode proved that GoT episodes are still incredible.
Positives
I loved the flashback, and thought Cordelia was perfect our young Lyanna. She was exactly as I imagined how a young Lyanna would be. It was great to see a Stark Winterfell again, albeit bittersweet.
The Jaime-high Sparrow scene was tense, enthralling, and wonderful. Jonathan Pryce is a fantastic actor and knocked it off the park alongside NCW. The lines were sizzling, and I simply didn’t want it to end.
As Sue mentioned, it was great that they improved the look of the Children of the Forest, and they look a lot more mystical, and how I imagined them now. I’m sad to see Roose go, but it’s been coming for the last two seasons, so it was probably the time to do it so they can prepare for the showdown later this season.
Negatives
I did feel the writing in some parts was a little off, and needed a polish. It wasn’t entire scenes or anything, but some lines felt out of place. I don’t think Dave Hill is as good a writer as D&D or BCog, but there was still a lot of good there, so unless it was substantially rewritten I’d love to see him again next season.
Moreover, I felt that the Balon death was not shot with enough light. Still, great to see Euron.
Splendid episode 9/10.
Addendum
Managed to get through without mentioning Jon Snow. He’s back baby! Now there’s a twist I didn’t see coming… (I thought either this episode or the next would bs the right time for him to come back, so I’m happy; you can’t drag it out forever).
janarchy,
Harness?
Perhaps you mean Harkness. A Harness is something that a horse would have. Oh my.
You know nothing lad
I just don’t see any reason to believe Ghost was involved in the resurrection.
Oh god I’m so afraid of the “gift” that the Umber will give to Ramsey 🙁
What will happen to Sansa once she gets to the Wall?
I think she’ll stop Jon from taking “the black” again and ask him to help her to retake Winterfull and tell him that Arya and Bran and Rickon are alive and the only way to get them home is a battle that the whole Westros will sing about and they’ll hear the songs and the news about the Wolves and they’ll be back
and maybe they will go to Bear Island after that
I kinda wish Ramsey knew Jon was dead tho before he comes back it would make Ramsey shocked to see him
Sean C.,
Beyond the Wall – Basically Bran and Bloodraven both have shorter hair. Wouldn’t a reasonable thought be, they both got haircuts together?
Wall – I think you watch the show on the assumption that the only things that actually happen happen on screen. Davos met Jon way back in episode 10 season 4 attempting to kill mance. He knows he Ned Stark’s bastard (the same Ned Stark that wanted Stannis as King), eventually becomes Lord Commander, and led and risked his life to protect the wall and kill the Mance. Right there Davos knows Jon is a good man. He has talked to other brothers and hears the stories and finds out who likes Jon and the character he is, he says as much when Davos sits and talks with Jon in season 5. Davos has been at the wall quite a bit besides his short stint with Stannis army. All I am saying is, I think you look at the relationship as only two scenes from season 5 when really it is something that has begun over the course of 13 episodes.
Braavos – What was suppose to be accomplished was the Faceless men wanted her to become no one. She wasn’t getting that, so they blinded her to show her what can happen to her. This is her punishment for not letting go of Arya Stark and using the Faceless men to kill Trant. They are showing her their power if she does not listen. So she is learning. She doesn’t want to be blind so she tells them she is no one. Is she actually believing she is no one like she is in Fight Club or just telling believable lies to Jaquen so she isn’t blind anymore. You need to understand why she is blind – punishment – and why it progressed so quickly – Arya is learning.
Kings Landing – the rest of KL was great. Clearly Cersei can’t get any revenge just yet because of Tommen – not publicly anyways. Which is why FrankenMountain killed in a back alley. You find out Tommen can’t handle the situation and basically gives Cersei the green light to handle it – the green light for violence. It is simple story progession. What was Cersei gonna do. just come out and start killing mofo’s? No, she can’t do that, she is still in the highest form of govt. But now she has the greenlight from the king himself. Now she can kill the Faith Mil without any repruccussions from the King.
Meereen – Yes, they do seem controlled now. But still locked up because if they are freed and start eating people (because they have been fed people in past while down there and while free) then problems arise. Not like they can walk them out on a leash, Wun Wun is in the North not Meereen.
Your nitpicking is borderline trolling, enjoy what you just watched. Way bigger holes in last weeks episode compared to this one. This Episode was simply for plot progression and they turned it into an amazing top 10 episode.
Does anyone think we will find out that it actually isn’t Mel who brought him back
Im actually pretty shocked D&D gave such a huge episode to Dave Hill.
I felt in places, it wasn’t as polished, but overall a spectacular episode.
Would’ve liked to understand Davos’s motives a tiny bit more, but still… it worked
9.5/10 IMO and joins my bracket of favorite episodes which are
Baelor
Fire and Blood
Blackwater
And Now His Watch is Ended
Kissed by Fire
Rains of Castamere
Lion and the Rose
Mountain and the Viper
Watchers on the Wall
The Children
Hardhome
Mother’s Mercy
Home
Shane snow,
No.
I’m impressed with Isaac’s acting in this episode, also Theon’s sis Yara is great! Cannot wait to see everyone’s reaction to finding Jon just wandering around castle Black. And the looks on Alliser and Olly’s faces what a joyous moment 🙂 I do hope he’ll be wearing his loincloth, otherwise it’ll be a bit embarrassing for him lol.
Sword of the Morning,
Mihnea,
Just going to step in and say it isn’t common in Westeros to kill your baby brothers.
Dee,
It looks that way. Umbers brought him Rickon most likely and Ramsay’s line from the trailer “do you like to play a game, little man?”
I would expect as Wimsey said it here. Umbers to side with the Boltons after Jon is brought back, siding with some of Northern lords to restore Starks. Umbers and Wildlings are long term enemies. Karstarks are against Starks as previously on Game of Throns showed us, Robb beheaded Lord Rickard Karstark. The Manderlys are even more surprising.
It’s shapping up to be the Boltons, the Manderlys,the Umbers and the Karstarks against Jon with Wildlings, some smaller houses if they can convince them. Vale might come into the picture later as Littlefinger is marching the North.
DireWolfHeart,
nope – and why the hell would he go to WF?
ygritte,
I agree. Gemma Whelan’s acting as Yara is the only hope I see to keep ironborn plot from becoming Dornish. Much as book Asha helped that arc stay above water, so to speak.
Demon Monkey,
It was a common practice in the time frame GOT takes place.
Josh L.,
I would expect them and the Mormonts to be with Starks. As two of the most known houses. So they can have some chance, otherwise it’s a suicide.
About casting.
Geralt of Rivia,
Roose got exactly what he had coming. He was never the mastermind he thought he was. He didn’t orchestrate the Red Wedding. Tywin Lannister orchestrated the Red Wedding. Roose was just a trigger puller. After that, what did he do? Ramsay sacked Winterfell. Ramsay took back Moat Cailin. Ramsay rid the north of the Ironborn. Ramsay led the army that defeated Stannis. Ramsay has been the one traveling about keeping the other lords in line, winning over the Karstarks and apparently the Umbers. And the Bolton army that is there is mostly the men who were left with Ramsay at the Dreadfort when Roose went south.
But by the same token, Ramsay is going to overestimate his position, too. Some of these houses he thinks are supporting him are going to turn. He’s not going to expect the man who cheated death and killed a white walker to be leading an army from beyond the wall with a giant and a sorceress by his side. He isn’t going to expect Sansa to return with the Knights of the Vale, the only army in westeros that has yet to be touched at all and is completely at full strength. He still has no idea that he and Roose were both being played by Littlefinger from the beginning. Ramsay will be dead by the end of the season, too.
Geralt of Rivia,
The special feature on the DwD told us of dragon gamers who weren’t Targs. Also, Tyrion knows things and he said dragons are affectionate toward their friends.
An unsullied asked me if this happens in the books and after explaining it I realized we really have two different stories now. In any case, we don’t know why the dragons killed Quentin. Doesn’t have to be because he isn’t a Targ.
He is not undead, he wouldn’t be breathing if he was.
Did anyone manage to tell the dragons apart? Just curious about which dragon the first one was – just because Tyrion seemed to have a bond with it over the other one and in the ‘Tyrion becomes a dragon rider’ theory, I imagine it would be that one. I haven’t rematched the episode yet, but if memory serves, the second one seemed more green, so I’m guessing was Rhaegal? So will Tyrion up riding Viserion? Would love to see him achieve his dream of ‘owning’ (as loosely as possible!) a dragon.
Icekhione,
Definitely agree with this. I don’t think they ever made the point of remarking that Thoros was undead. I don’t think that term was ever used was it? Just that he had been brought back to life – ‘life’, not undead.
Connor,
I hope so. But I doubt it. SmallJon has to be loyal to Bolton’s cause the Frey’s have the GreatJon. Also, word will get out that Jon let the Wildlings through. The Umbers hate the wildlings more than any other house. That will be the straw. It is prob real Rickon. Ramsay is going to amass a pretty good army with Umbers and Karstark’s on his side. Thinking Cerwyn’s and Mormont’s for sure with Jon/Sansa. hopefully Manderly’s, Hopefully Baelish shows up with the Vale.
Ghosts Lunch,
There is no Forrester’s. They had no army and are scattered at the end. They won’t be in no BastardBowl
Quentyn Martell had Targ blood (the Targs and Martells intermarried about a century before aSoIaF). So that isn’t the reason why he got fried by one of the dragons. He had actually tamed (or was about to tame) Viserion, and got bushwhacked by Rhaegal.
Can we all just take a moment and appreciate just how damn good Rhaegal and Viserion look? That $10 million an episode budget is getting put to great use! Also loving how much more screen time Ghost has gotten so far this season.
Che,
You took the words out of my mouth…or keyboard. I always imagine Jon bonding with Rhaegal because, as theory alludes to, Rhaeger is Jon’s father and Rhaegal was named after Rhaegal, so therefore Tyrion would ride Viserion and when Tyrion said “But here you are” I kind of took that as a “I found my dragon” moment since it was Viserion he first unchained and told the story to.
I thought it was a great episode. The only question I have is; was it really great, or did I think it was great because there was no Dorne?
Mihnea,
Certainly not everywhere. They weren’t doing that on Christian Europe, which is what GOT is loosely based on (the war of the roses).
Demon Monkey,
And they don’t do it in Westeros. Which is the material point.
Probably Viserion? He’s described as a gold Dragon with “pools of Gold” for eyes, so you know, Lannister gold and all that…and yea, I know he doesn’t look exactly like that in the show, but D & D are obviously aware of the description.
Josh L.,
Of course you’re right he has Targ blood in there somewhere. I was just making the point that it wasn’t why he was fried.
Who do you think will be this week’s Beautiful Death? Balon or Roose? My money’s on Roose.
Steel_Wind,
In the books I think it will be fire/blood magic
Kit just told in an interview on EW that this is the ” biggest season for Jon so far” & he spent more days on set than any other actor.
So not only is Jon back, he is ready to raise hell!
Demon Monkey,
As I said. I’m quite a history nerd and this week I was reading about the Ottoman empire.
I liked the parallels and thought it fitted Ramsey’s situation. He needed to get rid of any rivals to his position and remove any doubt as to who is Lord Bolton.
I can handwave a lot of stuff away, as long as there’s enough material in the story to support it (ie; how did the Sand Snakes end up on Trystane’s ship? Easy, they took a faster ship and they already knew Trystane was going to KL). But yeah, the whole “eh, new lords killed their brothers all the time” excuse doesn’t wash with me either. There’s no evidence of that being commonplace in Westeros (otherwise a lot of characters, such as Kevan Lannister or Benjen Stark wouldn’t even be here).
I’m just going to chalk up Lord Karstark’s nonplus as 1) He was already in on the plan to kill Roose Bolton, 2) He was already aware of Ramsay’s unstable reputation, and 3) He didn’t want to piss off this clearly unstable young man, so he’ll go ahead with Ramsay’s plot … for now.
As for the reactions of the Bolton army … well, their sigil is the Frayed Man, for the old gods’ sake, so I’m certain they’re probably used to this kind of shenanigans going on with the Boltons. I’m pretty sure the Boltons rule more out of fear than out of loyalty. So whenever a lord goes down, especially at the hands of his son, they probably figure “eh, meet the new lord, same as the old lord.”
And I figured the “He was poisoned” line was less for the people within Winterfell (who clearly can see that isn’t the case) and more for their allies in the North (such as House Umber, House Manderly, House Frey, etc.) What are they going to do? Come and investigate? By that time, the bodies will be long gone. They’d just accept Ramsay Bolton’s words and move on. And the denizens of Winterfell would be too terrified of Ramsay to say otherwise.
Jason,
They are awesome! Wonder what Tyrion will bring em’ for dinner next week 🙂
Lavignac,
I agree, Euron’s speech did nothing for me in this otherwise excellent show… Way to campy. At least there’s no eyepatch!!
Little child in the forest said Meera will be needed!! To deliver the message to Jon of his identity after this ToJ flashback!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Anyone else remember “only death may pay for life?” One of the last things we saw was ghost…perhaps a sacrifice was the final ingredient needed? I’m worried they will find UnJon with a wolf mysteriously dead at his feet…
And it seems politically asperational familicide is all the rage in Westeros, with three kingdoms changing power this way recently. Hopefully one of Walder Frey’s kids is inspired…
dragonbringer,
I think the idea of prophecy being fulfilled a certain way is only stories past down after generation after generation. For example – one of the prophecy’s is a dragon will rise from the wall. Many believe that there is a frozen dragon in the wall. once, the wall crumbles this dragon will be released. What actually would take place to fulfill that prophecy is dead Jon Snow resureccting at the wall because he is actually Rhaegar and Lyanna’s kid. Making him a dragon and he would be rising at the wall. See the realism in fulfilling that prophecy. Prophecy is taken as too magical and/or fantasy at times. When really you need to look at the most realistic way to fulfill a prophecy. My whole point is. The whole salt and smoke thing could have some meaning – or it simply could be crap made up or exaggerating over generations of story telling in Westeros. To actually believe that smoke will come out of one’s body when killed and brought back to life is to fantasy.
Josh L.,
Karstark was on it, they confirm it in the ”inside episode”.
D&D themselves say it.
Not so fast…Long Claw is predominant in the first Jon Snow scene with Edd, Davos and Tormond. Notice that Davos never puts it down an it’s specially lit, there’s more to come.
I really think they’re going to shore up that Jon is AA.
Shane snow,
Yes…
Hodor
In the books every the Manderlys are pretending to be against the Starks until Lord Manderly’s speech makes it clear that it’s a “mummer’s farce” and they are with the Starks…I think the Manderly name-drop here and the casting of the “fat Lord” with the “stirring speech” makes it quite likely that the show will do the same thing…except that the speech will probably be delivered to Sansa and/or Jon and not Davos, as in the books.
Ben Stein Stark,
Whatcha talkin bout Willis
What you talkin’ ’bout Wyllis?,
Willis not Wyllis 😛
I had no problem with that whatsoever, the Karstarks don’t really give a frak about the Boltons, and certainly will not shed a single tear for the death of Roose, who wasn’t winning any popularity contests in the North since the Red Wedding…
Bill,
True, I hadn’t made the connection between Rhaegal and Jon with the Rhaegar connection, but that makes total sense!
George,
Whenever I read the descriptions of Viserion in the books, I always feel reminded of Tyrion’s Lannister gold connection. Would be cool if it panned out. I’m just picturing Cercei’s face when Tyrion rides in on a dragon! Amazing!
My god, I loved this episode so much – and I’m not even a Jon fan. I am hopeful Jon 2.0 has a bit more spice to his personality, though.
I’m finding myself really enjoying Mel as a character recently. Also, very happy they’ve redesigned the children of the forest (continuity be damned when it’s a definite improvement)
And it’s crazy how excited I am about the flashbacks. ToJ will be the end of me.
GoT hype!
Stargaryen,
I think it could be Lyanna. She is the one to bring up the need for a new sparring partner and the way Bloodraven looks after Bran mentions his father never talking about her makes me feel there is something tragic with her in context with the scene they’re watching.
I guess I’m in the minority, but I found that episode rather weak. It was still enjoyable, but I found it rather predictable and lightweight.
Bran’s vision was too am-dram and suffered from Bran having to spell out who everybody was. The member of the Children of the Forest looks like an extra from Farscape and sticks out like a sore thumb. The one in the final episode of season 4 was far more believable.
The aftermath of Ramsay killing Roose had a chill running down my spine, but I thought it was painfully obvious that it was going to happen. I’m sure it was meant to reflect Roose’s betrayal of Robb, but I think it could’ve been handled better. And obviously it’s a huge disappointment to lose Roose / Michael McElhatton so early in the season. The producers obviously have a thing for Ramsay, but I think Roose was a far better antagonist. And I think the Starks’ / the North’s revenge has really lost some of its edge now that there’s only Ramsay left.
The scenes at the Iron Islands were hit and miss. Balon vs Euron was okay, but I could’ve done with a proper struggle before Balon went overboard.
And I have absolutely no idea why Yara is supposed to believe that he was murdered. What evidence is there for that? Sure, she could suspect foul play and perhaps suspect Euron when he conveniently turns up soon after. But they just telegraphed this need for conflict between Euron and Yara/Theon, when they could’ve played it more subtly. Her conversation with the Drowned God priest was also rather laboured.
Arya fighting the Waif again was surely unnecessary, and I’m seriously losing patience with Arya’s whole arc right now.
I wish they’d dropped Arya’s scene and spent longer on Brienne, Sansa and Theon’s conversations, which I thought were rushed. And I don’t think we really needed the second laboured reference to the episode title from Theon either.
Tyrion is still making c*ck jokes, which really aren’t necessary.
And Tommen is insufferably whiny.
There were a few good parts. The scene between Jaime and the High Sparrow was good.
Tyrion’s release of the dragons was tense, yet still managed some humorous moments.
The assault on Castle Black was good; although the moment they started battering down the chamber door I was just waiting for the sound of Wun Wun battering down the Castle Black gate to arrive. That sort of predictability is exactly what I thought let this episode down.
Anyway, I’ve saved the weakest element for last. In my opinion, I thought Jon Snow’s resurrection was really weak.
First of all, the old close up of the face before opening eyes and gasping for breath is beyond cliche now. I thought they could’ve handled the reveal moment far more subtly.
I’m not sure what it is about Jon Snow that we’re meant to believe has suddenly made Davos such a fan of blood magic. If he’s looking for somebody to replace Stannis, or to help him get revenge for Shireen/Stannis’s deaths, then they could’ve offered some hint at his inner turmoil.
Personally, I really expected to see Jon Snow resurrected on a pyre, in front of all the Wildlings and Night’s Watch brothers, combining the whole Targaryen angle, the Lord of Light, Azor Ahai and Jon’s warging powers.
I think that could’ve been a far greater spectacle, and it would’ve given all of those who are likely to fight for him a real reason to believe in his leadership, a la Jorah and the Dothraki committing themselves to Daenerys after her re-birth in the flames. And it could’ve been the moment that Melisandre really regained her faith in the Lord of Light.
As it stands, his resurrection is wholly attributed to Melisandre and the Lord of Light (although the viewer knows there was perhaps a bit of warging involved) and nobody witnessed it. So I think a lot of its power to influence the story and characters was lost.
All in all, I found it a rather disappointing follow-up to a strong opening to the season last week.
ghost of winterfell,
See I don’t think he will breaking out of his vows. Davos told him for the Night’s Watch to be successful they need great support from the North. That means working with the Bolton’s or getting rid of them. Sansa is the one people will be rallying around to lead after the battle, Jon is just the commander. He needs the north united to face the walkers. it isn’t about him being a Stark or Snow, or Targaryen. It is about him uniting the north so they can fight back against the walkers. I am pretty sure Jon’s plans are to stay at the wall once the north is good and the walkers are dead. Whether the wall comes down or not. He is not doing this to take control of the North. He is doing it to get Sansa in control of the north so he can have a unified region to fight the walkers. Winterfell is Sansa’s.
Yeah, that was my point. I was responding to a poster who claimed that the Boltons saying House Manderly was on their side was a deviation from the books. I was pointing out that in the books, the Boltons/Freys thought that Manderly was on their side as well, but the Manderlys were really performing a “mummer’s farce.” The same is likely true on the show as well. So aside from a few cosmetic changes (speech likely to Sansa instead of to Davos), there is no deviation from the books.
After re-watching the episode, a few things are starting to bug. Not with the episode, which I enjoyed. Mel and Davos AGAIN owned the episode.
What is hanging in the air for me, am I the only one who feels bad for Olly? Not that the kid isn’t a little shit but this is a child who saw his whole family slaughtered, then the people responsible are welcomed into the first safe place he has found. Of course, the Wildlings at the wall might not be the exact people who played part in destroying his village but I kind of understand his anger and resentment. He feels betrayed and obviously has gone of the deep end. His anger is fueled by Thorne and company but it’s not without reason. I just feel bad for the kid and there aren’t many people I feel bad for in this show.
Well…Walda and baby Bolton. Ugh. Ramsey needs to die. Not a lick of sympathy for him.
Look forward to Arya and the Waif training next week. Maisie Williams commits hard, so I hope the fighting is as cool as it is in the previews.
As much as I loved the flashback, Lyanna left no impression on me. R/L has always left me cold because I think they were both selfish idiots but baby Ned and baby Benjen sparing was fantastic. And Hodor!
You are just annoying – Jesus, will you please just go away and allow the rest of us to enjoy communicating with each other. Some of us hate it, some of us love it – that’s life.
No one says you have to love the episode, the writing, the acting, etc, etc, etc. No one even says you shouldn’t voice your opinion here, but please for the love of God….STOP.
Your like a petulant child having a temper tantrum. We get it, you are not enjoying the season at all…blah, blah, blah, now go away.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Calm down – only seen him for 3 minutes. I don’t think the eyepatch is going to be in the shows. Mainly because previous trailers have shown Euron and he has the cut but not eye patch.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
I don’t think that the power of Jon’s resurrection is going to somehow be negated by the fact that no one witnessed it. In fact, this might make it even more mythical and mysterious to those who didn’t know about Mel’s efforts. Nothing will detract from he power that will be his returning from the dead.
And as for your point about him coming back to life in the pyre as a nod to his Targ heritage, I have to whole-heartedly disagree. I’ve never understood why people thought that would happen. Nowhere in the books or the show does anyone ever recall a Targaryan being brought back from the dead through fire. That story about Aerys believing he would be reborn involved him going into the fire alive and being transformed into a dragon. That is very different to someone being ressurected through fire. I feel that this form of resurrection is more indicative of him having links to (or even being) AA, as it was purely through the Red God’s will that he has returned and AA is the champion of the red God in the war against the others. I really don’t think that the show runners have changed the method that Jon will return in the books. Such an important plot point will have been laid it by GRRM and I can’t imagine them changing it. As you say, it would have been more cinematic and a beautiful scene had he been reborn through fire, so given the choice, I’m sure D&D would have gone for that option. However, the very fact that they didn’t suggests to me that this is the way GRRM intends it to happen.
Everybody who was expecting Jon Snow to be resurrected on a pyre was barking up the wrong tree.
Targaryens can and do burn. Viserys was killed by molten gold. Aemon’s body was cremated. And in the books, at least one Targaryen king died when he drank wildfire, and I believe “Egg” died via fire as well.
Danys’s walk through Drogo’s funeral pyre was an one-time thing, and was unique to that specific situation (with the appropriate three sacrifices — Drogo, Rhaego, and Mirri for the three eggs). And if Danys is indeed fire-proof, it’s something that’s unique to her and her only, not to all Targaryens.
Also, we’ve seen that Jon Snow can be burnt, as he burned his hand in a flaming curtain when fighting off that wight in Lord Commander Mormont’s office in S1.
My speculation was that they would set up the funeral pyre, and that Jon Snow would be resurrected right before they laid his body on the pyre (or that Mel would glamour another body to look like Jon Snow’s body, place that on the pyre, while storing Jon Snow’s body in the ice cells). I thought that the words “And now his watch is ended” would be uttered over Snow’s dead body (thereby formally ending his oath to the Night’s Watch), but I was wrong about that.
kells,
Haha, you are on the money concerning Olly. Also felt bad for him, just a kid who doesn’t have a lot of luck and the choices he makes simply come at the wrong time. Of course, this is intentional, they even make him try to kill Tormund (who led the raid against his village). The reason why Alliser/Olly are still alive is probably to show us how the new Jon deals with betrayal (concerning his execution of Slynt when he was still a nice, noble man, I suppose they will die pretty soon).
I agree entirely… Although the consensus in this group doesn’t believe that could be so. Perhaps the term ‘warging’ in this context is not correct? A thing that GoT omitted from the last scene of S5 was Jon’s final word “Ghost”. Here’s the quote from ADWD…
Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. “For the Watch.” He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.
Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end.
When Mel and the others left the room, Ghost stirred and Jon came back to life, so its pretty obvious the direwolf had a part to play to achieve that.
It will be interesting to see what GRRM’s take is on this? He obviously had planned for Jon to come back. Until WoW is released, quite how it will be achieved will probably be somewhat different to how it was portrayed in this episode.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
He wasn’t writhing in pain after being cut. If I am not mistaken he smiled after seeing he was cut/bleeding. You are tearing this character apart based on a scene from the book that actually wasn’t played out on the pages? I get it you expected a highly charismatic confident person. He just killed his older brother who is Lord/King of Iron Islands. That is some pretty strong confidence and arrogance. Look people act differently behind closed doors and with family. He is about to go through a democratic election in a Kingsmoot, don’t worry. Just be patient.
Does someone else think that when Theon said he wanted to go home, he was talking about returning to Winterfell rather the Iron Island?
Black Raven,
Yeah, in the books warging will definitely have something to do with it, else that Varamyr prologue is as pointless as Tyrion watching turtles and naked fake septas.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
See the relationship between Tywin and Jamie are Father and Son. The relationship between Balon and Euron are brothers – where the older brother Balon banished the other brother. Completely different relationship from the beginning. So it sounds like you like Euron so much that you think he shouldn’t have been cut by his older brother? You have this guy on a pedestal for some reason. Watch the scene again. Euron sounds pretty confident in what he is saying to Balon. Again, he was smiling after he got cut. Watch the damn scene again.
what about the episode 3 trailer?! Robert Aramayo is actually young Ned Stark, who would have thought!
Josh L.,
Where did I write that Targaryens don’t burn or that they’re fireproof?
The nod to the Targaryen angle would have been in the very fact that it would emulate Daenerys’ “rebirth” and reflect a few other hints such as Jaime Lannister’s remark that the Mad King expected to be reborn in the flames as a dragon before turning his enemies to ash.
Stargaryen,
Yeah he smiled. A bit hard to see because of the rain.
I have to say I liked Euron’s introduction. I liked that we got to see Balon speak with him.
I also liked the ”I am the drowned god” line and loved how the swaying bridge barely made him flinch, while it almost made Balon fall of.
Also afterwards Balon tries to do the same and Euron laughs.
And of course the best part by far, without any doubt….NO EYE-PATCH!!!
Masterofthrones,
We’ve seen Davos in the trailer at Bear island, the same place Sansa goes. He can’t be the gift in the next episode.
Re. the burning bodies on the battlefield. Like most people, Roose and Walda were top of my list. However, Roose’s death so early on and the lie about poisoning, as well as Walda being fed to the dogs, puts paid to that idea. No idea who it will be now. Osha, maybe? She wouldn’t let anything happen to Rickon without a fight. Someone else with more significance to Ramsay’s enemies?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
But, if you haven’t read the books or any spoilers, as you claim, how would you know this…..I don’t remember the show mentioning Euron before.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Wow you complain about everything.
koempel,
Yeah…but the prologue clearly state that only a strong warg can do that….and it says Jon isn’t a strong warg.
My point was not that they couldn’t have gotten a haircut. My point was that the Three-Eyed Raven is too ordinary-looking for my taste.
Stuff can happen offscreen, but no, this is far too big a leap to be accounted for by stuff we didn’t see. All we’ve actually seen of Jon and Davos is Jon rejecting Davos’ plea to join Stannis’ cause a couple of times. I have no problem believing he likes/respects Jon, but this is quite a step beyond that.
Get hype! Do you have a link?
Likes…
1) Balon on the bridge. Like Hardhome, it was nice of the show to take us somewhere the book only mentions. I also liked that we can’t see Euron’s face immediately. That seems like a nod to
2) Tyrion approaches the dragons in almost the same manner as he approaches Dany when they meet. I also like the book nod to Tyrion walking by dragons as he does with the skull in aGoT.
3) Alliser getting locked in the cells. I know, another book thing, but I wanna know happens in those ice cells.
Dislikes…
1) I actually thought Roose had stabbed Ramsay and was genuinely shocked. Then I saw that it was Ramsay and felt slightly underwhelmed. Apparently, the only person who didn’t see it coming was Roose.
2) Changing Leaf. I get that the actress is older but it was confusing as there are many children so I just thought it was a different one, not Leaf.
3) Tough to find a 3 things but I will through in Arya not getting enough screen time.
Overall…really great episode. Other than Ramsay doing Ramsay things to remind us that he’s Ramsay in case we forgot that he’s Ramsay; I thought it was one of the best episodes yet.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
Jesus revived alone in a cave, that sure as hell didn’t make it less meaningful.
I was actually afraid will get a pyre and he will revive before everyone, I really dislike this idea. I was really happy the way they did it.
koempel,
Warging might have had something to do with it in the show. We always jump to conclusions while there is more info to be had going forward. In theory Jon could tell us if his experience. But I don’t know one way or the other and I think it will be interesting to see how things differ in the books.
Black Raven,
I just saw it as how dogs can sense things, well direwolves would even more so especially seeing as they have special bond with their masters.
What an episode!
Wasn’t expecting so many twists so early in the season.
As for the last scene… I was completely unprepared, I was 1000% sure Jon was gone and wouldn’t come back.
As far as acting, plot and visual effects are concerned, I’m fully satisfied so far.
What I find extremely lacking this season is the dialogue… It’s quite shallow if you ask me, both in this episode and the previous one.
Still, great episode.
This was one of the finest hours of Game of Thrones we have ever had. The sheer variety of emotions at hand, from the whimsical visit to happy days at Winterfell, to the dread and horror of Roose, Walda, and Baby Bolton’s deaths, to the elation of Jon Snow’s resurrection. I’m thoroughly floored by how amazing it all was.
THE PAST – Although we knew more or less what this vision was going to be about, it was still joyous to see Ned and Benjen again. The appearances of young Wyllis/Hodor and a less-Old Nan were icing on the cake. But the real substance here was Lyanna, and I exclaimed out loud when she came riding through the gate. A great way to reintroduce Bran and the Bloodraven after so long. I also enjoyed the look at Meera and the assurance from the rebranded Child of the Forest that Bran would not be staying there forever.
THE WALL: Although I came into the episode expecting more of a substantial battle between the Mutineers and Wildlings, it is fitting that Thorne’s rebellion goes out with a whimper as opposed to a bang. It will be very interesting to see his and Olly’s reactions to the resurrected Jon. Wun Wun was a boss, as expected!
KING’S LANDING: Loved the little preview we got of what kind of a force Frankenmountain can be! SPLAT! The scene between Jaime and the High Sparrow was incredible. Jonathan Pryce continues to amaze, and it will be very interesting to see what his ultimate goal is in King’s Landing. For all of his denials, Jaime has it right: he is a bold man.
MEEREEN: Tyrion with the dragons was magical. The writing staff continues to give Peter Dinklage the best one liners. “I’m here to help! Don’t eat the help.” I’m trying not to read too much into it, but the fact that Rhaegal and Viserion not only didn’t torch and eat Tyrion, but let him TOUCH them is a reveal that promises much for the future. #TyrionandViserion4eva
BRAAVOS: Another short scene relatively light on plot development, it nevertheless was yet another showcase of how fine an actress Maisie Williams is. I still don’t believe that she’ll ever truly be No One, but it’ll be exciting to see her endgame with the Faceless Men.
WINTERFELL: Oh boy, that hurt. Not only did we lose Michael McElhatton’s Roose (earlier than I expected), but what happened to Walda and Roose, Jr… Ramsay has surely earned a horrific death, hopefully before this season wraps. The Karstarks are with him. Next up: House Umber, with a gift. Pray for Rickon!
THE NORTH: A beautiful scene with Sansa and Brienne and Theon. Similar to Arya’s scene, not much plot developments here, but a great show of talent from the cast, especially Sophie and Alfie. What will Theon do at home, I wonder???
IRON ISLANDS: Spectacular! Balon at his very best the last time we see him. And Euron, “the first storm and the last.” Wow! Their confrontation was everything I hoped it would be. Bring on the Kingsmoot!
JON: Count me amongst those who believed that Jon’s reanimation would come on a funeral pyre, so I was surprised to see it happen this way. But that being said, this scene was amazing! Carice’s acting, the washing of his body and preparations for the ceremony. The way his friends were all there, and then how they all left looking forlorn as it appeared to fail. And then that last moment, with Ghost recognizing his return and the first desperate gasps of a man who hasn’t drawn breath in days. Speechless.
Now, on to the Tower of Joy, and to Jon’s true identity!
ygritte,
Warging wasn’t a factor in his revival in the show.
It could be in the books but I doubt it even there. Will see but in the show, without a doubt no warging was involved.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
his brother was known to be a competent fighter and even though he screwed up the islands multiple times he stayed in control so Balon is smart. Balon being smart knew Euron was there to kill him. Balon banished him. So, he was going to try and not let that happen. Balon inched closer to so he could kill Euron. They both knew one of them was going to die. For cyring out loud, old fighter that balon is can at least get one slice in before he is dead. Your panties are so tight on this issue it is funny!
They didn’t really have a choice if the actress looks too old for the role. In a way it doesn’t really matter if you think of the new actress as Leaf or a different Child of the Forest anyway as it’s not like we had any real emotional connection to the old Leaf anyway.
Stargaryen,
There was no prophecy about dragon rising from the wall .
Jon being son of rhaegar doesn’t male him a dragon just like how viserys never was a dragon ..it will just make him targ or half targ.
Say a character who was actually reborn as a dragon where the ancestors guide her towards the light from dark stone room and she flies from that room as dragon Last Dragon …while the chanting of wake the dragon is keep repeated ..an entire chapter was devoted for that in AGoT .
Salt and smoke do have a meaning and how fitting it was to give birth to a character amidst that island and against a storm so that she got nickname for that event ..STORMBoRn for born amidst salt and smoke ..
VegoDread,
So what put that sword in davos or edd or anyone who knows how to swing they can kill the WW …it was never pulled from a fire nor any sacrifices made for that ..
No, Jon isn’t a strong warg … but he has Stark blood, and Starks have unique relationships with their direwolves. In the books, we’ve seen at least three Starks have wolf dreams (Bran, Jon, and Arya), and Rickon likely has wolf dreams as well. They cut this from the show (because they wanted warging to be an ability unique to Bran).
I still think that the book resurrection will involve Jon warging into Ghost (hence his final words being “Ghost”) and that the scene we got was a nod to the (unpublished) books.
So in short … Jon didn’t warg into Ghost in the show, but he probably will warg into Ghost in the books. But otherwise the scenario will remain the same. Mel tries to resurrect Jon Snow using Lord of the Light magic, and seemingly fails. They leave the room, leaving Jon Snow alone with Ghost. Jon Snow suddenly wakes up and gasps.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Dude your analogies are so off point. Everytime Roose converses with Ramsay he doesn’t have the fear of death in him. The second balon and Euron meet each other on the bridge, that of course is the only thing coursing through their minds. Balon knew seeing him something was going down. Roose did not believe Ramsay would kill him with the news of the baby, especially in front of a Maester and new Lord Karstark. Every relationship and person is different and you can’t compare them to others.
Absolutely love this: “I’m not much of a fighter…so I apologize for what you’re all about see (unsheathes sword)” – Davos
Josh L.,
We shall see. Come winter we shall see. 🙂
Knight of the Walkers,
it’s not like we had any real emotional connection to the old Leaf anyway
Small disagreement with the above but your point is taken. I’ll just pretend it’s a different one and move on.
Mihnea,
Fair enough.
It wasn’t simply that he wasn’t revived the way I expected that I took issue with though.
I thought it was painfully telegraphed; the actual shot of the revival was cliched; Davos and Melisandre’s decision to suddenly have a go at resurrecting him, and Edd and Tormund’s acceptance of this turn of events, wasn’t properly reasoned out; and I think it could’ve been done in a way that would’ve had an obvious impact on the other characters.
I’ll be interested to see how they handle the reveal to the other characters at Castle Black. They might still be able to rescue the impact of his resurrection.
Jesus may have been resurrected in a cave, but the real pay-off came when his empty tomb is discovered and he appears to his followers.
I guess we’ll have to wait and see how well the show handles Jon’s reappearance.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
The very fact they didn’t do suggests that he is not the one .
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Dude you are worse then the media. The kennels aren’t out in the open. They are use to the dogs eating things and acting savagely. The door is shut, no one can see them. The show made a point that no one watch them go in there. IT IS DEF. NOT OUT IN THE OPEN, also it is obvious that Ramsay has the support of Bolton soldiers.
Stargaryen,
I always thought that in a loose sense Stannis was a John the Baptist figure building the way for Jon as a Jesus figure.
Sean C.,
I agree with this. I also felt there was a missing link there. Oh well. I thought for a minute that maybe we’ll find out Davos had secretly become a convert and was receiving intuition from the LoL been then I remember he reminded Mel that he wasn’t a devout man when he talked to her this episode.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Why would Tormund or Edd refuse a chhance to bring him back.
They don’t really have to believe, but it’s worth a shot.
”’He is dead, let’s try this last thing at least, we don’t really believe in it but why not try?”
I found the last shot very, very good. Nothing to add here and no point to argue.
I agree on the second part. That’s why I liked that no one was there to see him come back. It will be when they see him alive that the resurrection will play it’s most important part.
But of course I disagree that they need to ”rescue” it because I thought it was very good.
So, at this point, what book material remains to be covered by the show? There’s not that much left.
The remainder of Blind Beth’s adventures
Sam at the Citadel and the Grand Maester Conspiracy
Tower of Joy (plus its aftermath)
Manderly’s “Mummer’s Farce” speech
Dare we hope … Frey Pies?
The Siege of Riverrun
The Siege of Meereen
Brienne’s Riverlands Adventures (?) — this time searching for Arya, not Sansa
The Quiet Isles and Gravedigger!
Brotherhood without Banners and the Quest for Frey Revenge
Anything else I might be missing? And I’m not talking about the obviously cut material such as Arianne, (f)Aegon, and LSH.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
So who said Roose got the credit? I don’t recall hearing that one bit. Hell the show even goes out of its way to show Ramsay leading the 20 men and then the big battle at Winterfell. Don’t you think it is obvious that he has the support of his men? Open up your mind to the fact that stuff happens off screen. Do you want D&D to hold your hand while you watch the show from now on? “Well, you see Brian it is odd that no one stopped Ramsay from doing these awful acts, maybe it is because there is more to be shown later. There is 8 episodes left, I guess you will need to wait brian”
Josh L.,
I’m wondering if the show is even going to show Arya’s warging abilities. Maybe they’ll just leave it all on Bran’s character.
Winter 2018 you mean? 😉
(Yeah, I still don’t think tWoW is going to be published until 2018, either right before the final season of GoT or right after it, and that aDoS will never be published.)
Jumping like a horror movie show…LOL I am glad I am not the only one!
I am a spoiler sort of girl, so I had read ahead of time on the open chat what was going on. And I still watched the episode and screamed, and fell off the couch. Then I rewound it and screamed again. I just couldn’t even deal. So very exciting. So, now I’m curious as to what we get with Jon Snow back…because it does take something out of you.
That all being said, I may have also screamed during the trailer for next week and young Ned.
Mihnea,
Yeah, I like the introduction. I think it is interesting that he kind of looks like Theon too!
Demon Monkey,
Elio who co wrote the TWOIAF has said in westeros.org that in order to ride a dragon you need to have a right drop of the blood ..if you don’t have it then even if you are born as targ you cant ride one….
Just like how not all the first men blood and starks were not wargs.
ygritte,
He doesn’t believe in the lord of light, but, like he says to Mel herself, knows she has powers, he knows this better then anyone else.
He is a man of honor, he couldn’t let Jon just lie there. He is also not a coward to run away and simply not care anymore.
I found his scene with Mel very good. Davos, perhaps better then anyone else, knows just too well what Mel goes trough right now, he knows her pain, knows how much she believed in Stannis and knows how devastated she must feel to lose it all.
Above all he is kind, he saw a person suffering and he went to comfort her.
Now of course, if/when Davos finds about Shireen, he may have a very different reaction to Mel.
If they ever show that, next episode is going to be the last chance to do so. But at this point, all signs points to “no.” It looks like they’re going to use a combo of Arya’s “river dance” training and HoBaW training to demonstrate Arya learning how to use her other senses to fight, then they’ll probably “cure” her blindness in time for her to join the theater troupe and do whatever her plot is there.
Another reason why I suspect they cut Arya’s warging abilities is that in the books, Arya’s wolf dreams is how we see LSH come to be (we see Nymeria drag Catelyn’s badly decomposed body from the river). But LSH is cut from the show, so there’s no need to include that in the show, and if Arya ever reconnects with Nymeria on the show (not a guarantee, as they might simply cut out that part of the story), they’ll probably just rely on the “Starks are connected to their direwolves” aspect instead of any warging abilities.
Definitely the best second episode of the show and probably the best early-season episode too. A top 10 or even top 5 if you exclude episode 9s and 10s (and 8s).
Josh L.,
2018???? You are very optimistic, my friend. 🙂
Josh L.,
Yeah, without LSH the warging doesn’t really matter.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I think Davos’s motivations are fairly clear, although it may take a fan’s leap of faith to understand them. Davos is not dumb, and even though it was not shown in the episode, I imagine a scene that includes a conversation between Davos, Edd, and Tormund that ultimately leads Davos to the conclusion that Jon is the only one capable of uniting the Night’s Watch and Wildlings against the White Walkers.
Davos is also searching for a sense of purpose, as he had been serving as Stannis’s hand and he’s looking for someone to put his faith into. Even though he has disagreed with Melisandre’s magic countless times before, he has seen it enough to know there’s some truth to it, no matter how may terrible things have happened as a result.
So, Davos goes out on a limb, knowing he’s the only one that would have a remote chance of restoring Mel’s faith in the Lord of Light.
I do agree that something like this should have been shown. But, then again, it’s a TV show and they can’t show everything. There are going to be perceived plot holes… but, my point is that the show/book doesn’t have to answer everything for you. It is perfectly acceptable for viewers/readers to reach these conclusions on our own, and sometimes we have to for the sake of a clear understanding.
They never did one for Jon, so that would be cool. Even though he’s not dead anymore. 🙂
dragonbringer,
See again you didn’t understand what I was saying and YES there is a prophecy in the books (not in the show) about a dragon rising from the wall. I am not saying Jon is an actual dragon. What I am saying is because he has Targ blood he is a “Dragon” (half or full makes no difference) the same way Ned Stark is a “Wolf” or Robert Baratheon is a “Stag” or the same way Tywin is a “Lion”. I didn’t mean Jon would physically take form of a dragon. My point is people look at prophecy and think of all this magical stuff, when in reality if prophecy is to actually happen it will MOST LIKELY happen in a very realistic way. Now my dragon rising from the wall was simply an example of the point I was trying to make.
Dany is called Stormborn because there was a giant storm the night she was born on Dragonstone. Not because she was born amongst salt and smoke.
I am more pumped for the Manderlys than many other stories. The name drop must mean it’s going to happen.
The show didn’t really state how bad the red wedding was the for Manderlys…but maybe they could develop that a bit.
I’m not sure whether they’ll double cross Ramsay ahead of battle (with pies) or on the field like the Irish in Braveheart where they run up and shake hands.
It’s on like Donkey Kong!
Just. I mean. You guys. I’m dead.
Young Rodrick Cassel, I would recognize those muttonchops anywhere. It’s cool to see the age difference between the Stark siblings (never realized Lyanna was so much older than the younger boys, or seems like it to me anyway). I wonder if we find out what happens to poor Wylis/Hodor. Nan cameo! So Nan is Hodor’s mom, or female relative.
Sansa talking/thinking about Arya was amazing, Sansa and Theon saying good bye broke my tiny heart. I wonder how long it will take Sansa, Bri & Pod to get to the wall?
Ramsay is just an absolute bastard and I hope Jon Snow has a pointy end for his stupid face, though, thank you for not showing the mauling. My heart was racing that whooooole time worrying about having a watch that.
I was slightly let down by no real conflict (except the poor fella who got his face scraped off by Wun Wun) when they busted down the gates at CB, but honestly, the NW traitors would’ve been stupid to try to fight, so it makes sense they’d give up. I really thought someone was going to just put one through Olly when he lunged. I’m honestly surprised they let them all live, it’s not like wildlings seem to care about innocent until proven guilty.
That ending. Fucking. LEGENDARY.
trarecar,
My guess is Balon.
And the qoute will be ”I am the Drowned God”
Well, GRRM is furiously working hard on “Son of Kong” and skipping on convention appearances, and making fewer (Stannis would be so proud of me) posts on his “Not a Blog” and it’s not NFL season right now, so …
rhymeswithweak,
Mihnea,
We can pretty much ruled out Littlefinger and Sansa meeting that early. They made Castle Black so damn obvious to go to. It raises questions if Sansa doesn’t end up elsewhere. Umbers territory is right on the road to Castle Black.
Josh L.,
”ADWD next year”-Martin 2005
”I’m doing great progress”- Martin 2006
”Almost done everyone!!”- Martin 2008
”It’s done!!” -Martin 2011.
Mihnea,
So you’re saying there’s a chance?!
Based on the Episode 3 preview and Ramsey’s smirk I’m really worried about Rickon. I really wish it was someone else but I’m pretty sure that gift will be Rickon.
So instead they should have left the average viewer (who has not read the books) to figure it out?
Agreed.
Was it predictable? Or did you just see the previews and teasers and expect more? I feel like a lot of the disappointment over predictability comes from viewers who watched all the teasers, read the casting and filming news, and spent time discussing it on sites like these. Of course it’s easy to anticipate that scene when we learned months ago that Wun Wun would be breaking down the doors to CB, and after last week when Edd went to go get the Wildlings.
Yeah, I agree with this. I still loved it, no doubt. But when the episode started I turned to my husband and said “This episode will end with his eyes opening and cut to black, I’d stake my next paycheck on it”.
Well then if you expected that and got something different, wouldn’t you then say that it was… unpredictable? 😉
rhymeswithweak,
There’s also a chance that I will marry Jennifer Lawrence..
wow, so many deaths, what an episode, cant wait for ToJ next week!
Mihnea,
Well, it’s blood magic, they’ve both had near deadly close encounters of the undead kind recently, and they have absolutely no idea what sort of state their friend would be resurrected in.
I’ve got no problem with them agreeing to give it a try, but I would expect some misgivings; and I think they could’ve expressed that more so than simply Tormund storming out after it appeared not to have worked.
Anyway, as you say, there’s no point arguing. I just think a couple of lines here or there, within the scenes we were given, could’ve given the scenes and characters a bit more depth.
After the scene with Cersei and Tommen, did anyone else have the feeling that she will be the one who kills him? That perhaps the scene in Blackwater was foreshadowing where she was about to feed him poison on the throne? I can see it happening since she is now putting a lot of stock into the prophecy. Maybe she panics when she thinks the Faith is coming for him and poisons him so that he will have an easier death since she thinks its inevitable anyways. Just a thought.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
It isn’t blood magic though…
They would have been more skeptical if Mel told them to burn someone alive.
She just says the prayer. No sacrifice, no blood.. in this magic..
No point in not letting her try.
Who brought Ramsay the gift in the promo? People seem to think it was the umbers. Was that the Smalljon then? It didnt look like the actor to me, and his banners had chains, not a giant. Someone please clarify this?
WheelsOnFire,
My guess is he dies at the hands of the mountain, not at Cersei’s orders, but rather as a consequence of something Cersei does.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
Not Smalljon. Different actor.
Stargaryen,
I understand what you said .
There is no prophecy with in books or in the show about dragon rising from wall .
And I was saying what you are saying is what exactly happened with dany in AGOt …read the chapter after jorah takes her into the tent when mirri is doing ritual…she is having dragon dreams and wake as Last dragon.
And like I said just because he is a targ does not equal to him being dragon …he may very well be dragon ..not all targs were called dragon …Aegom the conqueror was called dragon ..rhaegar was called last dragon and dany is now reborn as Last Dragon in AGOT out of stone .
And that island is what called as amidst salt and smoke not literal smoke ..
gRRm has been giving her names whenever she fulfills part of the prophecy .
You guys are always bummed when someone won’t let go of some little annoying thing, like keep mentioning “bad pussy” or whatever, but them You do exactly the same thing nitpicking the books with the eye patch thing, or “I’m of the night”. To me this is equally annoying. Please let’s not try to fight off book purists by behaving childish like them. Sorry about this off-topic when there’s way more interesting things to talk about, but this kind of stuff really turns reading the huge amount of comments in a tiresome mission instead of a fun one.
Ps: what’s so wrong about a pirate dude having an eye patch anyway? To me it’s a nice nod to classical pirates, like they used to be bad and treacherous, and nowadays unfortunately pirate seems to be a synonymous to Jack Sparrow only.
Mihnea,
That could be a possibility too. Maybe the FrankenGregor scene with him smashing in the guys head was foreshadowing to this. Maybe Tommen says something about his mother and FrankenGregor takes it upon himself to smash his head in. I feel bad for that kid.
Lol. I didn’t make the connection even though I had just finished Easter dinner! Alithos anesti, Jon.
You seem to have a lot of specific expectations about a character that you’ve supposedly not read anything about. I thought you haven’t read the books and avoided all spoilers, etc. for this season.
Knight of the Walkers,
Really? I think this episodes was much better written than the Premiere. The dialogue conveyed much more info and managed to flesh out characters in a shorter amount of lines. The whole stark flashback in particular was so effective, because of the way it was written. Short, precise and effective charactetization. Also the introduction of Euron had the same thing going. I personally think this episode was very well written. Think about the Cercei-Jamie scene in the premiere. The dialogue was basically a repeat of the same conversation those two characters have had many times before. Cercei is disrupt, Jamie tells her that its him and her against the world and they’re gonna take everything and so on. While the scene with Tommen and Cercei this week conveyed new emotions and new mindsets. We get to see Tommens selfloathing for his inability, and that talk between the two brilliantly handled in that Cercei is visibly angry with him when he first enters, but as soon as she sees how disrupt he is, she emidiately forgives him and that moment is very tender. The episode has many examples of this, where characters interact in a way that draws something new from them. The only complain to me is the Arya Scene, which didnt bring much new to the table and was pretty cliche. I’m courius why you think this episode was badly written? I agree though, that D%D are usually better writers than what they did in the premiere (not that the premiere was bad in any way, just not quite as good as this one) and Cogmans episodes are alway among the best.
That’s my thought as well. It reminded me more of when Bran would have one of his visions or warg into Summer…and the Reeds would have to shake him out of it if he went too deep. Jon warged into Ghost, without really knowing what he was doing, and was getting lost in him, so to speak. It took Mel’s caring for his body and praying over him to “snap” him out of Ghost and back into the real world.
By the way just finished washing the episode ..
God I like the while bran arc…it takes us back to the time when everyone was happy and peacefull.
Just in awe how much issac as grown and how good to see him back ..
Ofcourse sydow is at his best taht goes without saying..
I like the CoTf makeover this time this is what they wanted to do in season 4 but didnt have budget iam afraid..
Lol at olly charging at tormund ..
Can’t wait to see their reactions when jon come walking to them.
Why is the harpy statue still there no one cared to move it ..
How come no one ever mentioned about how dragons are not eating since dany left …after all the talk about them being angry at her …they still seem to love her and care for her ..LoL.
Wow lot of head smashing this today ..
Mihnea,
who then? So it’s not the umbers, we agree on that? Because the banners are also different. Just before that scene, we see banners ariving at winterfell, and they have chains on them. I personally thin the gift is a fake rickon
I clapped and squealed like a little girl when they incorporated some of Euron’s book dialogue into the show. I think Pilou is going to nail it. Euron isn’t mad like Ramsey, he’s a different kind of crazy.
My heart melted when dragon 2 (I wish I could tell them apart) just tilted his head as was all like ‘me next’.
Mark Stark,
Several people have mentioned “Balon’s leech” – somebody help me out….
Wow
Melisandre, season 3, burns 3 leeches as blood magic to kill 3 kings.
On another note – wishing my name was shorter, PITA having to type it in every damn time!
I’m a bit late on this, but screw it anyways. Here are my general thoughts on the episode:
Opening was weak. I expected far better from the Winterfell flashback, and the kids were really cringey imo. The scene was okay, but nothing special. I liked the little moment Bran had with Meera after the vision.
Night’s Watch stuff was good. That moment when Wun Wun stands in the gate and just roars was so awesome 😀 Only nitpick I’m having is: Did Olly seriously just charge at Tormund against all odds and even got away with it? I’m sensing some plot armor here.
King’s Landing stuff was solid. Nothing of note, but the scenes were well done.
Tyrion and the dragons was amazing, from start to finish.
Winterfell stuff was fucking cruel, but also really well done, especially Roose’s death. Only nitpick I’ve got about this one is how Roose didn’t see it coming. Ramsay was acting super weird, it was kind obvious that something was gonna happen. Roose should’ve known, especially after treating Ramsay so harshly in the past.
BRIENNE WHY DIDN’T YOU TELL SANSA THAT IT WAS THE HOUND WHO WAS PROTECTING ARYA
Theon and Sansa have to stop hugging because I can’t take the feels anymore :'(
I liked Arya’s scene, but I’ve got a bit of a problem with Jaqen’s test for her: Jaqen just took her back in, just like that? I really like the concept of that test, but this was over way too quickly. After Arya insisted that she had no name, Jaqen should’ve just left. The next day, the same happens. Arya gets weaker and weaker, and more doubtful each time. After several days Jaqen will be able to see if she was ready to die rather than being someone again, and THAT’s when he takes her in.
Iron Islands stuff was good. I’m not really sure if I feel Pilou Asbaek as Euron, but it was still pretty great.
Jon’s rezzing was okay. Definitely not the way I would’ve done it if I was in charge of the show. I think they were trying to achieve the same effect as when Jaime’s hand was cut off. Sudden, confusing, and slightly off putting with an upbeat soundtrack just after, and I think it worked fine.
I do have a problem however with Davos not caring about Stannis and Shireen. Sure, Melisandre sits in front of her fire all day pitying herself, but what about Davos? It really seemed like he knew or at least suspected what Stannis was going to do to Shireen. So now he just goes to Melisandre and asks her for help with Jon, someone he barely knew? I really hope Davos and Melisandre will share a moment together where she reveals to him the truth. The only reason he doesn’t kill Mel right there will be because he swore to Stannis not to raise a hand to her again. As the story progresses, Davos realizes that Melisandre really did what she believed was the right thing, and maybe even manages to somewhat forgive her.
Anyways, this episode was a massive improvement from the last one, which, despite being good, was a rather weak way to start the season. This one on the other hand really gave us a sweet taste of what must be in store for us the coming weeks.
Sean C.,
Remember that Davos knows about the White Walkers through the letter that Staniss received, has said to Jon how much Staniss respects him, and has watched him as a leader. Its also very possible that he doesn’t know how Shireen died or Mel’s role in it. So it didn’t feel odd to me that he’d want him back, even if it took someone he doesn’t like all that much to make it happen
Some people are complaining that the last scene was too low keyed. I totally disagreed – I didn’t want CGI and strong music. It was done quietly, almost sadly. Then when the others are gone and we are focused on him, he sits up and gasps. Felt like those ghost stories around the campfire, when the story teller gets really quiet and practically whispers, until the very last moment when the monster shows up and everyone jumps. It was good story telling, the way it was done.
Sean C.,
,
Yeah, I had a problem with that too. Maybe the next day?
Honestly, I think the writers did this because it might have caused an issue with Sansa trusting Brienne. I mean the Hound was one of the few people on Sansa’s side when she was being held hostage. How do you think she would take hearing that Brienne killed him and finding out that he was protecting Arya as he was trying to protect her. I think it was just probably a lazy way to get around that problem.
Yep, I reckon that could happen in the WoW. I agree that it wasn’t warging in the sense that Bran or that wildling who could warg into a bird does, but how Jon comes back to life after Mel & Co had left the room with only Ghost present is another one of those questions (certainly at the moment) left open ended. Unless Mel’s magic has a ‘delayed reaction’, I still reckon Ghost was instrumental in his resurrection.
Perhaps we’ll know more in the next episode or next time JS appears when Mel and the others discover he’s alive? I’ll laugh my ass off if he says that for a time I had this dream like I was living in a wolf then awoke I found myself laying on a table 😉
Shortage of time I expect, there is so much to fit in that Arya’s story I think is really curtailed this season. Even so there are still complaints about it being in at all…
Damphairintheshowplease!,
It was just that a few lines didn’t really feel right. For example, Tyrion’s “a punch in the face” felt far too contemporary for a show like GoT. Yes, Dorne wasn’t great last week, but that doesn’t excuse poor lines this week. There were a couple of other instances that stood out to me when I was watching, but I would have to go back and watch it to remember them.
It is difficult when watching an episode written by someone other than D&D, because they always rewrite sections of the script, and they’ll have final say, so it ins’t completely Hill’s fault. I thought Dave Hill’s episode last season was pretty weak, with far too much expository dialogue, but this was a big improvement, and is one of the better second episodes of a season (behind “The Lion and the Rose”). It was just those odd lines that felt off; I had no problem with the scenes themselves.
Ramsay said he need umbers and karstarks. So, he might get Rickon as his gift.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Yeah it’s probably that. But then again, didn’t Maisie say that we wouldn’t be seeing as much as usual of Arya this season?
man, not much room for improvement in my opinion. they could have had Ghost fucking eat Olly, but that’s about the only disappointing note.
Did you notice that in one scene, the ZombieMountain was killing a dude, and then in another scene Arya (who traveled with the Hound) had a beggar’s BOWL??? CLEGANE(s)+BOWL = CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED.
Sarahx,
That was my thought as well – your timeline seems right to me.
Oh and thanks for that clip. I totally forgot about that; very interesting.
I keep posting about this because seeing so many stupid nitpicks is irritating. If you think about the timing and continuity of it, the planning of this episode was IMPECCABLE.
1) Jon is resurrected the same episode that the last of the 5 “kings” dies. He also happens to have had a ticking clock with Mel’s leeches
2) Last king dies, Jon is resurrected, Theon goes to the Iron Islands, “previously on” calls back to King in the North beheading Karstark and it’s this episode we see the young Karstark ally with Ramsay.
3) Roose is dead – the man who betrayed the King in the North. Now his son takes over.
If last episode was about the Queens – Cersei, Margaery, Dany, Ellaria, and Sansa – this episode shows the War of Five Kings is really and truly over, but their sons and brothers are now moving to the forefront.
Mihnea,
Spot on…it is because they hate the wildlings and I’m sure there are other reasons, but I do remember that being a HUGE reason.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
It’s definitely the Smalljon (Dean Jagger with a beard) and in the show, the Umber’s sigil is two chains on a red field.
Stargaryen,
You’ve responded to a bunch of my posts so I’ll try and address everything you said in one post.
Regarding the Euron scene, I actually liked it. I would just cut those last few frames of him after throwing Balon off. Just my personal preference. And I don’t care about the eye patch.
I’ll agree that analogy wasn’t the best. But about the Roose Ramsey scene, a big problem for me is that it just lacked creativity on how it happened. All of a sudden Ramsey rams a knife into him. This show has been really creative about how it’s handled deaths and assassinations and to me that was just meh. Anyone can stab another person in any room at any time. And you can be like, well it made sense because Ramsey had the trust of the military, but I also think Roose was in good standing with his bannermen as well and he was not a weak leader. Again, agree to disagree.
Regarding the kennel, it’s not so much a door as it is a gate that is open to the outside world. Winterfell is crowded (even in that scene) and people would see him taking her and the baby there. Plus they would hear the human screams. He wouldn’t have been able to hide that.
And no I usually don’t complain about everything, I actually love the show and have watched it over and over. I just hated this episode. The show has set the bar high and this episode just lacked in the usual creativity we’ve come to expect.
The ‘punch in the face’ line took me out of it for just a second. Tyrion, fascinated with dragons all of his life and thinking he would never actually see one, just communicated and petted two dragons for the first time, unchained them and didn’t get torched or even singed. Elation would be a better reaction leaving. It sounded more like regret. And, enough with the dick jokes.
I’ve read a lot about Davos’ motivation with Mel. It didn’t bother me at all, but maybe people would have taken the flow better if one of Jon’s buddies in the room initially would have mentioned that he had heard of a priest in The Riverlands who had raised Beric from the dead. At least something that would have planted the seed in Davos’s head.
I found this to be another dull episode. Ramsay finally kills Roose, something we’ve expected for many many seasons. This supposedly smart man always had an odd weak spot for his son, a plot point which seemed to have been included only to create an opening for his death. And the chemistry between the two and the whole outcome was Tyrion and Tywin all over again. And speaking of rehashed storylines, Tyrion and Varys saving Mereen is season 2 all over again. (Seems like they’re running out of jokes aswell considering they’ve done “unit” jokes on every season. Now two episodes in a row). And then there’s Jon waking up from the dead as we all knew. I’m going to be so disappointed if they don’t change his character in a major way. Death comes with a price, only death can pay for life and all that is asking for something big. I’ve never been that keen on introducing resurrection into this story considering what a big a deal death is here. It loses all of its power if it can be ignored. So please, at least transform Jon into something.
Death in general is getting quite boring on this show. So many people have been killed during the last two episodes that I’m practically yawning every time a new death is introduced. (Can’t believe they spent precious minutes on that silly Mountain scene). And this pattern of introducing new characters only to kill the previous ones, which too were introduced only to kill the ones before them is getting ridiculous. Last season a whole new faction was introduced (the religious nutjobs) just so that they could all be killed this season. What was the point? I’m 100% sure that they will kill Tommen because otherwise they wouldn’t bring any game changing elements to the story. Thus, the murder of Tommen is necessary to create that much needed feeling of progression. When that happens, we’re all supposed to be shocked and surprised when in fact it’s the ONLY way this plot point can go.
The only thing I enjoyed in this episode of predictable plot points and meaningles deaths was Bran’s part. Those scenes were beautifully filmed and also brought some life and mystique into this fantasy story. They also brought a much needed feeling of continuity. Here we have someone we’ve been following since season 1 preparing for the war with Others, a plot point introduced right from the beginning.
AaronB4Hodor,
Right on 🙂
People have always had idioms. You convert use modern equivalents for the same reason you have the actors speaking English rather than different versions of Latin on Rome, or people speaking modern English rather than Elisabethean English On Elisabeth.
I would doubt that. The Umbers might well view Ramsay as a necessary evil for defeating the Wildlings and/or the Southerners: but once they and their cousins have defeated the world, then they and their brothers will unite against their cousins.
Again, one has to be an advanced warg to do this. And having Stark blood means nothing: this is Martin, not Tolkien. The only time this is relevant is that it seems that people of Valyrian descent have some affinity with dragons: and there probably are magical reasons for that.
But here is the bigger problem with this idea. The book makes it very clear that the 2nd life is just a remnant of the human existing in the animal. If Jon somehow did jump to a second life, it would not be Jon’s mind preserved in Ghost: it would be the remnants of Jon’s emotions. One could not “download” Jon from Ghost anymore than Varamyr could download Orell from the Eagle. In fact, there is no reason to think that reviving a recently killed highly-trained warg who knew how to jump to a second life would recall that from the animal.
“But he’s a Stark! But he’s a Targaryen!” Where in the books or the show are we told that this gives people special warging powers? Absolutely nowhere. Firing a gun late without hanging it early is Deus ex Machina. GRRM and B&W have avoided that assiduously: even when a god does take a hand in things, it’s only after the god has been hung on the wall.
This last episode should have been instructive. The ideas that proved to be correct were the ones that relied exclusively on things already introduced on the show. All of the ideas relying on things that fans imagined rather than seeing/reading M,B&W imagine turned out to be wrong.
Now, it is true thatJon has the ability to become a great warg and one day be a person who could have a second life. It’s possible that his death/rebirth will be the catalyst that spurs that onwards, much as Bran’s near-death spurred him towards becoming an actual warg rather than just someone with the potential to be a warg. But it has not happened yet.
The shield line – Jon Snow says it to Ollie (loser) in season 5, “Keep your sheild up – or I will ring your head like a bell” or something similar.
AWESOME Episode. Much better than premier. It is known.
I was under the impression that the dragons were not “starving”, they were fed, but just refused to eat because their mom was gone.
It is known.
Now they’re like unchained and remoralized or something.
Great episode.
I haven’t read the books in their entirety but I’ve read a lot of passages and have red the wikis. Regardless, I’m just against a big baddie showing too much vulnerability too early. Big reason why I hated Kylo Ren. It was just a small part of a small scene though so I’m willing to see how it plays out. Euron on the bridge talking to Balon was fine.
Sullied by Knight,
They couldn’t have known about Thoros.
I liked Tyrions line. After the intense emotions he felt and how in awe he was at the dragons, he must have felt drunk during those moments.
At the end, he realizes just how crazy it was what he did.
Tyler G.,
Fair enough but in this instance, I needed something to be shown. Davos hatred for Mel runs pretty damn deep. He nearly killed her after she taunted him about his son, and he suspected she wanted to burn Shireen before he left for Castle Black. Plus he has previously advise Stannis against using her blood magic, and he goes against that advice here. So for me I wasn’t able to take that leap of faith, but to each their own.
I see no question there. You might as well ask why the order in which people left the room mattered.
At any rate, never do either the books or the show associate warging with the ability to come back from death. We never are told or shown that a warg who downloads himself into an animal will come back to life if left alone with that animal. Ghost had nothing to do with this: he was in the room because that is where a dog (or wolf) would stay. And any dog would have reacted the same as he did: Jon’s physiology kicking back into gear would have been loud and smelly to a dog. In particular, his master’s scent would suddenly have started to get stronger: and dogs look up when they smell their masters coming home several seconds before humans hear the same person coming home.
I’ve read parts of the book and the wikis and stuff.
VegoDread,
Please. I just didn’t like the episode. Just ignore my comments if you did. Or if you have a point to make, then make it. Whining about my points accomplishes nothing though.
Shouldn’t the opposite be true? They have been refusing to eat sheep, etc., brought to them. They are not eating for some reason: presumably because mummy is gone. If they are not ripping apart nice tasty sheep, then humans (which are pretty foul smelling and foul tasting) would not be particularly appealing.
So, in many ways, this was the absolute safest time to approach them. After all, the sheep found it relatively safe! It would be when they are devouring the sheep on site that I would not get near them.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I don’t know why you have it in your head that every big death on GOT has to be this big dramatic moment. Tywin is a big death, and he gets shot taking a shit.
It was 10000% perfect. It was a direct parallel to how Roose stabs Robb, and the show was linking all these past betrayals together with the “previously on” showing the execution of Karstark and his younger son standing there. The North has no love for Roose Bolton any more than Ramsay.
Yet it was RAMSAY who destroyed Stannis’ forces with just a “few good men” while Roose sat in Winterfell. Ramsay’s soldiers have proven to be loyal to RAMSAY. After all, he was the one dispatching soldiers with HIS hounds to search for Sansa.
Roose Bolton is a murdered and usurper. HE is the one responsible for destroying the Starks. Hell, he’s the only one of the two that killed a Stark. The idea that the soldiers or Northmen would be any more loyal to him is absurd.
How do you know that Mel didn’t retain some of the blood magic that she derived from Shireens death?
First off, Tyrion = Dragon Whisperer. He was calming and soothing and very much perfect for the scene. I still don’t think he is a Targ though.
Jon’s rezzie. There is still something we don’t know yet. Some twist that is to be revealed. His eyes were a deep brown, not purple, not light blue, not grey. He did NOT warg into Ghost. Just didn’t happen.
Episode rating is very high from me. Kept me excited all the way through and I am BORED to death with those who are ho hum about this show. Geez, you just can’t be impressed can you.
Roose died exactly how he killed Robb. Is that not poetic enough? Why are you not entertained?
For some reason when I watched the Walda/baby dog thing, THIS came to mind…. I know, I am not okay in the head.
http://i.imgur.com/4UJ32Sr.jpg
I assume he was cut so that they can figure out who killed Balon. Remember, Yara said she would hunt down whoever did this. Well, I have a feeling he cut will play a role in her finding out.
It will come up at the kingsmoot that Euron killed Balon, with the cut as proof. He will agree and say Balon was weak.
I didn’t say it had to be a big dramatic death. I just think Ramsey would’ve had to have been more clever about how he offed Roose, not just walking up to him and stabbing him. That worked for me in Dorne because Doran Martell had done a series of things that you could see could piss off the people. Plus they showed the soldiers just standing there doing nothing. True Ramsey does have relations with the army, but I think part of the reason why he gets respect from them is because he’s Roose’s son.
Bottom line: Roose isn’t a schmuck, he’s smart and he has the respect of his bannermen. Why would people be so quick to betray him when Ramsey could so easily burn House Bolton to the ground? Their fortune is tied to their Lord’s decisions, so it’s hard to believe they would support the overthrow of a stable, strong, smart guy like Roose. I thought his death was lazy. I needed a bit more, but to each their own.
This Tyrion has Targ blood thing is super crazy to me, and also would be really lame if somehow the Targs just have all these mysterious half children lying around.
The show very very clearly showed that the dragons never attacked Missandei or those that were around Dany who were loyal and her friends. They sensed who was a companion of her mother, not that Missandei and all their handlers have Targ blood.
I don’t actually believe that the dragons are going to be physically ridden in battle. I don’t actually think Jon Snow is going to ride a dragon, nor is Tyrion. I think the “dragon has three heads” is more about people who will play a role in the fight against the WW, and I think that’s Dany, Jon, and Bran.
I agree. I thought that from start to finish, this was easily one of the Top Ten episodes of the whole series…
I guess many were hoping he would be killed by a Stark.
Shawn,
Yeah this could be true. Still they didn’t have to show him breathing so heavily and basically having a panic attack. Could just show him wiping the blood off of his face.
Again I’m seeing complaints about the predictability of the Jon Snow resurrection. I don’t understand how we can go through a full year (or for book readers, even longer) predicting how Jon would be resurrected, because we all knew he *would* be, and then chastise the show for taking the most obvious route. The way it happened (via Melisandre) was the most obvious route FOR A REASON… because it WAS based upon a long history of the show, the narrative that’s come before, and a complex series of events that led Melisandre, Davos and Tormund to be in that place at that time.
If the resurrection had come out of left field, it would have been a problem. Jon warging into Ghost is something that has not been established; we’ve only seen warging from Bran and one of the Free Folk.
If the pieces had not been set on the board in the right way, it would have been a problem. Melisandre’s return to Castle Black made sense, it was the only place she could have gone after Stannis’s fall.
If there had been no precedent for this action, it would have been a problem. The story of Thoros and Beric from season three… I said this here last year, not only would a Melisandre resurrection be out of left field if this earlier event hadn’t happened, but in fact the Thoros/Beric story *served no purpose in the story* in the confines of the series if it wasn’t a ‘Chekhov’s gun’ planted far earlier in order to explain what was to come at Castle Black.
Predicting the way a story turns is not necessarily a bad thing; quite often, it’s a result of people understanding where the writing is *supposed* to go.
(The only thing I wish had happened: in the “Previously On…” a brief glimpse of Thoros & Beric from season three, like happened with Robb’s beheading of Karstark. Although it might have made the ending even more obvious, it would have served the purpose of reminding viewers of the earlier events.)
What will be the FIRST thing Jon does when he comes back?!?! I think he should go cut off Olly’s head immediately!! Hate that kid.
Cameryn,
Yeah I mean, even if people haven’t been waiting for years and years for GRRM’s story, we also knew that with Mel back at Castle Black and the way Beric was resurrected that it would be most likely this way.
Frankly I would be pissed as hell if they resurrected him in some big old funeral pyre. That makes ZERO SENSE TO THE STORY. ZERO.
This way was really the only way that made any sense, and thank goodness the writers did what made sense instead of some bizarre out of left field think for shock value.
Dragons have always been ridden in battle before in this universe, so why would it be different now? (in fact we just got a reference about Dragons being ridden in battle by Aegon the Conqueror in this very episode, by Tyrion)
Why would Bran have anything to do with a Targeryen-related prophecy/vision?
“Just precaution..” said Book-Roose who was using a decoy when riding the fields to Moat Cailin… it felt cheap but in the end deserving. Perhaps he felt too safe..
Sad to see him go like that, it would have been great to see some sort of Vampire showdown with Roose baring his epic corpse sword with burning battlements and Rickon, Shaggydog and Smalljon at his throat..
Okay.. (but we won’t see Ramsay’s red flesh armor either…why??? Just 20 good men and hunter’s gown, eh?)
Anyway all killer (verbally), filler. (Wun-Wun and Un-Gregor casually smashing in)
Let’s hope for the ToJ (DawnGate coming)
Really felt like all is now moving towards endgame!
Fantastic episode. Probably in my top 10, but not higher than that.
I thought the flashback was lovely. A dip into the shallow end of the pool of what we’ll see Bran do from now on. Great to see Lyanna, Rodrick etc, and I shouted out with joy at seeing Hodor and hearing him speak.
I loved that the Wildlings who attacked were so reasonable. They know that they Night’s Watch is needed against the White Walkers so they come up with a show of force and only kills the ones that attack them. Likewise the NW men quickly realize this and back off and lay down their weapons.
Damn, but Jonathan Pryce is good at playing humble. I can’t help but like the High Sparrow whenever I see him, but then I think about his beliefs and what he’s doing.
The Meereneese council scene felt a bit off at the start, mainy Tyrion’s eunuch-joke and the “That’s what I do – I drink and know things”, but once he started explaining about dragons and then later visited the dragons it was great. His Nameday anecdote was sweet and heartbreaking. “It didn’t even need to be a big dragon. It could be a little one – like me.” I wonder how the dragons are going to get out of that crypt though. Is there another entrance apart from the door?
Ramsay killing Roose? Slightly telegraphed because we know Ramsay, but I was still a bit shocked that it happened this soon. But I see no problems with it. The Maester is obviously very afraid of Ramsay and will tell all the Northern lords that Roose was killed by poison. Karstark was either in on it or doesn’t care about which Bolton sits in Winterfell. I also find it believable that the Bolton soldiers wouldn’t be too concerned about it either. They follow the flayed man banner and I think they respect Ramsay as a leader (but not necessarily as a man).
Sansa/Brienne/Theon were good scenes, but they could have been a minute longer or so. Loved Sansa’s thoughts about Arya. They may have disliked each other as sisters years ago, but family still means the world to them.
I liked Euron’s entrance. Ominous and very confident but not too mad.
Carice van Houten continued a very strong run since 5×10. I’ve loved how she’s handled the less confident Melisandre. The resurrection scene was very awkward and low-key, but I think that was the right way to do it. Jon waking up alone will also have a bigger impact when they see him.
Davos hated Melisandre in season 3 mainly (in 2 he was mostly afraid of her) but ever since her reaction to the letter from NW I think he realized that she was just as much into Stannis as he was, and the hate was tempered. When she came back broken to NW in 5×10 I think he respected her more.
They could have had an extra scene clarifying why Davos thought Jon was so important, but from their interactions in season 5 it was apparent that Davos had a ton of respect for Jon. He mentioned to him that Stannis liked him, and that is a big deal in Davos’ book because he knows that is very rare.
You have to admit it would be hilarious though if the only thing Jon can say now is “Hodor” 😉
JCDavis,
I’m with you. Just had visions of Tyrion leading Dany’s army atop a dragon, “whispering” to the beasts the battle commands. I also do not think he is a Targ- while the theory has some legs given the hints thoughout the books, the show has not explored any of this.
Are you me from another dimension? 😀 Seriously, I could not have put it better myself. Indeed, many people here will attest that on numerous occasions I have tried and failed to put it better myself!
Out of curiosity: whence came this “Roose is a vampire” idea? There not only is zero indication that this world has vampires, there is not even any indications that they have mythological vampires.
Mihnea,
Certainly they’ve heard stories passed around…while someone is out for supplies, or on a recruiting trip, or some newbies coming in. Something that would have at least brought up the subject before Davos asks for her help.
I do like your thoughts on Tyrion’s emotional state afterwards! I thought the scene was wonderful and totally melted my heart. I think I’ll watch it again! 🙂
She did it so well that she somehow did not even look the same. At times, it really did almost seem to be a similar looking woman in a Melisandre costume.
Kudos.
i really loved the scene with sansa and theon. jon’s resurrection was a little too predictable for my taste. but i’m still glad he’s back! hope he finishes ramsay off…
also is anybody else disappointed in house manderly allying with the boltons? my favourite house in the books! D:
It will be interesting to see how Jon handles those who betrayed him, particularly Olly.
Old Jon would never be able to execute the boy (in my opinion), but I guess this will be quite revealing about how he has or has not changed since being brought back from death.
I personally think he won’t have any of them executed… I think Thorne is going to have the biggest about-turn we’ve seen yet from a character on this show. I think he will revere Jon and realise the error of his ways. Hmmm. Okay it seems far-fetched now that I’ve written it down 🙂
Maybe it has something mistakenly to do with the leechings he subjects himself to (which makes him pale I guess), although that is taking blood out rather than in, so hardly vampiric!
Some fanart makes him look like a classic vampire ( he’s not, in my view)
It also made it clear that they were not eating anything. Who would eat dwarf (even dwarf in a nice red wine reduction) if they are passing on sheep?
One other thing is that the dragons seemed “down.” Their fires seemed weak and they seemed unresponsive. But they took to freedom very quickly. I do wish that we’d seen them flying out: not because I need to see them leave, but I just think seeing dragons fly is cool. (Even cooler than bow ties.)
Yeah, if he was leeching other people to get their blood, then maybe I could see it. However, I thought that they were developing him as something of a hypochondriac, or something like that.
Steff,
They allied with the Boltons in the books too.
Sean C.,
It is meant to work as a metaphor of Dany’s own repression. By locking her dragons she locked herself, the disaster of her ruling is a reflection of that, Drogon is the part in herself that can’t be tamed. Her decision to stay in Mereen and learn to rule and fix the whole slavery issue is not what she really is, she is not a ruler but a savior. Her journey this season will taker her there, she is not a queen or a politician, like Jon she is a prophecy child and has a destiny a mission. I think Dany will finally understand this next week and will be reborn as a more dangerous and effective version of Dany season 3, parallel to Jon’s resurrection.
Well leeching was seen as the cure for pretty much everything in the “old days”!
Jack Bauer 24,
“Keep your shield up, or I’ll ring your head like a bell”
I do not think that it is. Jon needs unity to fight the Walkers. If he can forgive the Nationalists, then they will be just as beholden to him as the Wildlings are.
However, one question is: how long will it take Jon to come to his senses? It is not uncommon in these sorts of shows for people who’ve come out of deep comas or cryogenic freezing or something similar where they are basically “dead” for some amount of time to be a bit wonky for a while. (That happens in real life, too, albeit less dramatically than on screen usually.) However, given that Alliser, Bowen, Olly, etc., are out of sight, Jon might not see them until he comes to his senses.
I wonder if this is the first step towards King Crow being more than a Wildling nickname. And that could also be what brings Melisandre further around: she might realize that she has just found her “king”: he’s just not the king she first inferred. Ah, idle speculation!
I just meant the atmosphere, setting and such, I never thought he was a vampire, just made him more eerie. (well there are some parallels which indicate that GRRM gave Bolton the traits of a vampire, I mean “Dreadfort”, pale, black armor, pink cape, leeches, his character as a cold puppeteer –
think what Lady Dustin said “He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men.” etc.)
“As far as this case is concerned I have now had time to think it over and I can strongly recommend…. a course of leeches”
huh, good catch.
I think that in the show, at least, this is pretty much what all the Wildlings are going to call him now: King Crow
I think the second Mel sees Jon walking around she’s going to think that he’s Azor Ahai; except in the show she’s just going to say “the One who was promised”
George,
I think this could go both ways. I don’t think the world is going to so easily find out or BELIEVE that Jon Snow, bastard of Ned Stark and part of the Night’s Watch, is a Targ.
The one thing his resurrection might do is help Thorne understand that there is a greater mystery and magic at work. Wildlings are real enemies in the flesh and blood. That’s easy to understand. Understanding White Walkers and wights and the Lord of Light and all that is insane, and it might only happen with a resurrected Jon.
I don’t think Jon is going to leave the Night’s Watch in conflict. If he leaves, I think he’s leaving a NW that supports him, or understands the threat, though they will not be long for this world.
Mihnea,
ohhhhhh… you’re right. i just had manderly’s speech in mind and forgot… shame on me.
Btw the one thing I always believed is that people aren’t really going to find out or believe about R+L. I don’t actually think it will matter. The audience will know it. Maybe Mel, Bran, Davos, Jon, some people will know it. But the idea that across the realm people are going to find out and BELIEVE that Ned Stark’s bastard son who died and was resurrected (lol) happens to be a long hidden son of Rhaegar Targaryen? Yeah, no.
It matters in the choices Jon makes and what he believes, but I think it has little bearing on its own.
Mihnea,
Mihnea was it confirmed by the HBO people that Mel is responsible for the resurrection? You seemed sure in your response so I’m curious.
George,
Because these dragons are different from the dragons of the past ..no one was ever given three eggs or no one ever have hatched three or called as mother of dragons..
Until dany dies I don’t think there is going to be any riders .
Sam Torres,
And when dany finally removes her floppy ears drogon comes back and dragons break their chain. .
Coincidence doubt that ..
Whole ADWd is about dany is chained her inner dragon and the chaining of the dragons meant as metaphor of that and when she frees herself the dragons get loose .
Whoever said there’s no evidence of the other Starks being wargs is wrong.
GRRM has said they all are. Arya, Jon, and Sansa all had wolf dreams in the books. There’s some evidence of Rickon doing it. I don’t know of Robb doing it, but he’s dead, so who cares?
That has nothing to do with resurrection though.
You put a gun into chapter one, you better fire it by the last chapter. This is exactly what the Beric/Thoros story was leading up to… this or LSH, and I think it’s pretty obvious LSH ain’t happening on TV.
I get that people want a twist, but sometimes the twist is that it happens exactly like we want it to happen. 😉
DireWolfHeart,
yes – I thought Winterfell as soon as Alfie spoke the line. In Theon’s heart it’s always all about Winterfell.
In the series, there isn’t any evidence that anyone other than Bran can warg. And certainly Jon, who has encountered another warg north of the Wall, would recognize the skill if he had it all along himself.
Wimsey,
I see you edited down my post (as you do with all posters) to suit your own ‘authoritarian’ opinion.
I agree with your comments regarding how dogs behave with their owners, but there was more going on in those final scenes which so far haven’t been addressed.
I (as many others on this thread do) find it curious how Jon comes back when only Ghost is present? Why should it that be – Did Mel’s magic work? Was it a delayed reaction? Who can say – Guess we’ll leave that question for Jon to answer…
Or do you expect us all to bow down to your cringe worthy ‘superior knowledge’ on all things GoT related on this web site 🙁
“We”? Best twist would be that they can’t revive Jon. Not at all. He’s stone cold dead Jim and not coming back. Ever. It would just have been a great laugh to have teased people all along these years. Jon Snow as a blue whale sized red herring.
No, I never really thought GRRM would kill him off permanently but I’d have had a good ole’ chuckle if he had.
Looks like Lyanna is older than Ned on the show… But still, I ‘m super happy we got to see young Ned, Benjen, HODOR and LYANNA! I was a bit disappointed to find out Euron wouldn’t be having an eye-patch but now I’m just super excited he’s here. Its so great they’re showing Iron Islands plotlines from the books now because they were some of the most interesting parts of the books. And also Lena Headey was never how I pictured book Cersei but Lena seriously kills as show Cersei.
Also, two other random things:
– From the casting notice for the “Young Stunner”/Lyanna it says the character will have “a great final scene where there is a major twist”. Could this mean that the season might end with the revelation about Jon’s birth and lineage? Not like a finale ending but like something in episode 9? The big twist or climax – kind of like what Ned’s death was for season 1.
– Is anyone else as relieved as me to see that Daenerys – or at least her dragons – are finally going to reach Westeros??? I literally almost don’t care about Meereenese politics anymore and I hope they really give room for some plot and character development in Daenerys’s new storyline.
Oh, and I CAN’T WAIT for Manderly and his Frey pies to show up. Imagine when he and the other Stark supporters finally meet Sansa.
Black Raven,
Or do you expect us all to bow down to your cringe worthy ‘superior knowledge’ on all things GoT related on this web site
Preach
You know what would be cool? If Jon goes all Lady Stoneheart and slaughters Thorne, Olly and company.
Didn’t the wildlings call Jon a warg in season 3 at some point? Plus, they showed Rickon seeing Ned’s death. In the westerlands there were rumors of Robb warging. He most certainly wasn’t, but it did plant the seed that Stark = warg.
There hasn’t been anything with Arya and Sansa yet. But there’s no reason to think they aren’t wargs. Particularly if it’s true that Arya will be back in the Riverlands later in the season. That is, near Nymeria. Just because the show is developing it more slowly, doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
I have a question related to the preview of episode 3 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y685gVGRQ98
Could someone tell me what does Cersei EXACTLY say in this preview ?
I have trouble catching some words.
Thanks in advance !
Really good episode IMO. A huge step up from the premiere.
I thought Euron Greyjoy’s debut was fantastic.
The only thing I am not sure about is Tyrion’s scene with the dragons. It could improve IF it hints to his true heritage.
Oh yeah about Jon Snow, I am just glad it’s finally over and done with. It was the worst kept secret in entertainment history.
I’ve suspected this for a while and was reminded of it during that scene.
I still think, however, that it will be an accident: Tommen will drink poison Cersei intended for someone else (Margaery is most likely…)
Really, Lyanna is younger than Ned… while in the episode she seems to be taller than him. However I love the two boys training!!
And I really think the man beside them is Ser Rodrick.
koempel,
I didn’t take it that way. IMO, I don’t think, in Jon’s case warging was involved at all. The HBO series has not shown us that warging is part of Jon’s character. If it were I believe they would have signaled it on other occasions. For me the scene in the book where Jon calls for Ghost, could be interpreted as Jon hoping Ghost would be there to protect/defend him against his attackers, and fight them off. Later, the fact that Ghost stayed near that body was an example of the direwolf’s loyalty to his master. Ghost was prepared to go the last mile with the corpse of Jon Snow. It reminded me of scenes when a fallen soldier is brought back from the war and we have seen his dog “stand watch” over his casket. When Ghost realized life was returning to Jon, he woke up too.
GOTMasterpiece,
“If someone is planning on making our losses their gains, I want to hear it”
King in Bulawayo,
I’m a bit suspicious of Lord Karstark. He told Roose and Ramsey half a dozen dead men were found on their way to WF. I know there were six Bolton men that caught up with Sansa and Theon, four on horse and two dog handlers. Brienne, Pod and Theon killed only four. The dogs and their handlers fled during the fight. Me thinks this Karstark is playing a Manderly here.
Al Swearengen,
Hang dai, Al! Cock suckers!
Please don’t mistake me as a bigot. I just had to say it because it’s Swijun! And he’s going to be. character this year!
Hello everybody. Its monday and you know what time it is. Iiiiiits criiiiticism time!
Roose. Oh god damn you Roose. You are supposed to be the most cunning cold strategic genius in the whole Westeros. And you cant see that a desperate mad backstabber will do desperate mad backstabbery-things, oh you Roose. While I can see that Ramsay was his “blindspot” which he actually always cared for, but damn they could have done that better. Somebody criticised that Ramsay killing Walda and the boy in sight of everybody was a stupid thing. Yes, I think thats what they were looking for. Even backstab-blind Roose knows this and says his last words. “If you acquire a reputation as a mad dog, you’ll be treated as a mad dog.”
Davos. While I see why Davos tries so hard for Jon, he is a just man and wont stand if injustice is about, but his “do you have some more of that magic of yours” speak just doesnt flow. Sometimes you need the plot to move faster, but damn that was awkward push. Its not a bad scene though, mostly because of Carice nailing it.
While this episode was pretty good and not many error were made, I gotta admit as a Sullied that this was bit of a letdown. That probably mostly is because everything that happened, could be seen to happen a mile away. All the speculations and all the biggest theories were right. And even the non-book things like Roose were so predictable that even my mom saw them coming. But now they are passed. Plot needed the “Davos push” to get over these things. I’m very happy that they went so fast, now we get to the good parts. Even the most hardcore Sullied start to be in a deep end soon. What will happen, nobody knows. And that is what makes me excited.
Halfman,
Thanks, mate 😉
Looking at the stills on next weeks episode, it is beyond doubt (for me, at least) that Rickon is the gift to Ramsay.
First, we see Umber banners flying, then a procession of wagons, and finally we see Ramsay in an audience with someone. That someone is definitely Smalljon Umber. He’s heavily bearded, but if you look you can see the features match those of Dean S Jagger, the actor cast as the Smalljon.
What other gift could the Umbers be giving to Ramsay? I suppose it could be an imposter, but that seems highly unlikely, and more like wishful thinking. In the shot of the Smalljon, it’s clear he announces that he’s brought a gift, then steps aside to reveal a person. Similarly, the brief shot of Ramsay’s reaction strongly indicates that he’s looking at a person.
Bad news for the Starks.
Alexis Grau,
I didn’t see any of the teasers or previews. It was just predictable.
Nadia,
Of course it will matter somehow. Otherwise what is the point of it?
Really? They spell it “Wylis” in the closed-captioning, but I thought that Wyllas or Wyllis made more sense.
Ever since they burned Shireen, I’ve had a hard time feeling engaged with this show. The level of casual graphic violence just feels too high. I know that Shireen’s death wasn’t treated casually at all, but it was a turning point for me.
All of those throw-away deaths in the last two episodes really pull me out of moment. I mean, un-gregor smashes a mans skull against the wall, and it seems like they set it up to be (somewhat) funny? Though, Balon’s death was handled very well in my opinion.
I’m not trying to shout “I’m offended” from the rooftops or anything. I’m not. That’s not the point I’m trying to make. The show has been like this from the very beginning. Like Ramsay said, “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.”
More than anything I guess I’m a bit confused and bemused at losing my stomach for this show’s violence.
LoL!
Let’s rephrase this: would anybody who has not imagined that wargs could store their minds in animals after death ever see what you see in this scene? I do not imagine that wargs can store their minds inside of animals because nothing in the show or the books indicates that they can. Therefore, I did not see that in this scene: and I never would have guessed it from this scene.
(Incidentally, I don’t edit the posts: I just focus on the lines to which I am responding. It’s a sort of “previously on.”)
No. But I do live in vain hope that eventually some of you will quit making mountains out of molehills and demand explanations for things that do not need explaining. As for my “superior knowledge,” it is the opposite: I purport to know only what the show and the books have shown us; you seem to be claiming some knowledge of what GRRM has imagined that he has not shared with the rest of us. So, which of us is claiming superior knowledge?
You know what? If there was a Wimsey freakin’ fan club, I would be a charter member. He has been right so much more than wrong that I do honestly respect what he writes and I take it seriously. And I also know him from several other sites that he was just as knowledgeable on, people there sort of took it as butt-hurt too, just like you. Ya wanna know what else? He is fun and funny and can take a poke at his ownself. Lighten up!! Life is short.
Sending the respects for the Wimz.
Well, as GRRM would remind us, there is no “really.” But do the books ever tell us that Lyanna was Ned’s younger sister? I always seemed to think so, but I don’t recall reading it.
Still, I suspect that the age is magnificently irrelevant. What probably will be important are the visual connections to Arya and possibly Wyllas/Hodor. (I do like the idea that others have floated that there will be some Wyllas/Mycah parallel here, although I would not hazard to guess how that will be done.)
Hey, when you have an ego as big as mine, it’s hard to not make fun of it! 😀
There was a ton of smokey mist traveling over Jon’s body as it lay in the snow in the opening sequence, where we heard Ghost howl. Here is a video, but if you rewatch the episode in HD, you can see it a lot better.
https://www.facebook.com/GameOfThrones/videos/10153669132792734/
Anyone else think the music after Jon’s rez was HYPE?! Can’t wait for the soundtrack!
I’m not caught up today, but I saw a comment last night about how much Fergus Leathem playing young Rodrik looks like Daniel Portman. I didn’t pay attention until I saw a screenshot from the scene today. It’s funny how it looks like they had Daniel grow a beard and stuck a wig on him to play his own real father as a younger man. They probably could have done that easily enough.
What if, after her “failed” resurrection attempt, Mel was so discouraged that kills herself? She was clearly desperate for this to work, not just for Jon’s sake but for the sake of her own faith. Maybe after this final failure, she completely gives up. Her death is the final sacrifice needed to bring Jon back. Only death can lead to life!
“We” in terms of those wanting him back.
And the story makes absolutely no sense whatsoever if Jon is dead. Or rather, a whole lot of plot strands just go nowhere. GRRM is very good at hiding evidence in plain sight, and the producers of Game of Thrones are not beyond that; there would have been no reason at all for the Ned/Jon “next time I see you I’ll tell you about your mother” scene way back at the onset of season one if it weren’t a key plot point.
(Plus, there’s all the stuff about how the producers answered a question GRRM asked of them and that’s why he gave the rights to them, and the conventional wisdom has always been that that question was about Jon. Of course, none of that is evidence and won’t likely be until after the show is over.)
I think this would largely overwrite the prophecy she saw in the flames, that she would see the fall of Winterfell. To me, it’s pretty obvious Melisandre was right all along… except about who would lead her to that battle. She always thought it was Stannis, but it’s Jon. (She’s made more than one comment in the recent past about “snow” after all…) 😉
Also… I’ve started wondering about the whole “king’s blood” thing. What if Melisandre already paid the price of king’s blood that would be necessary to bring Jon back, by killing Shireen? That could be a thread Davos investigates, leading him to discover that Jon’s resurrection is entirely because Shireen was sacrificed. I don’t believe for a minute Davos knows Melisandre directly had Shireen killed yet… and I do believe when he DOES find out, it won’t be pretty.
What if, after her “failed” resurrection attempt, Mel was so discouraged that kills herself? She was clearly desperate for this to work, not just for Jon’s sake but for the sake of her own faith. Maybe after this final failure, she completely gives up. Her death is the final sacrifice needed to bring Jon back. Only death can lead to life!
I actually can’t recall any suicides in GOT to date, at least with anyone of note. So I think it would be an interesting unexpected twist. (I’m sure I’m forgetting someone?)
DireWolfHeart,
Yeah! That’s what I thought he meant. Especially with the “present” for Ramsay from then episode preview.
Cameryn,
I don’t dispute any of that but subjectively I find book and show Jon one of the less interesting characters, is all.
DireWolfHeart,
Yeah! That’s what I thought he meant. Especially with the “present” for Ramsay from the episode preview.
Selyse Baratheon hung herself in “Mother’s Mercy” last year after Shireen was killed.
Fair enough. Jon’s my favorite character, so I’m naturally more invested in his life and death and resurrection than you are. 🙂
And this show is so full of great characters that you can always follow someone you really enjoy and skirt by the stuff you find less interesting. (For me… I wish they’d get on with it in King’s Landing already… just how long is Tommen going to let HIS WIFE THE QUEEN OF THE ENTIRE KINGDOM rot in a prison cell? Why haven’t the Tyrells attacked King’s Landing already? To me that’s all running very hollow.)
Dragons: I think they were chained beneath the fighting pits. So if they’re anything like the coliseum, the dragons went out that way.
Bolton men: Roose helped to violate guest rights, that goes back to the First Men…the Northmen are their decedents. It is not unreasonable to think that the Bolton men think patricide is a lesser offence than violating guest rights. But just speculations…obviously.
Osha: *if* Rickon is being turned over to Ramsay…have the Umbers killed Osha? And where is ShaggyDog?
Having come down from that high last night, unsurprisingly my favorite scene from Home is Tyrion and the dragons. Losing count on how many times I have watched it on YouTube. The rest of the episode was fantastic too. Special mention to the King’s Landing scenes, because KL in Season 5 didn’t wow me. Bravo, Dave Hill. And D&D, of course!
I’m really not understanding how someone who proclaims to enjoy this show can be disappointed by the way Jon was brought back…
I keep seeing the same complaint: that it was “predictable.” As if predictability is a flaw in the storytelling. I would argue that the opposite is true. If Jon had been resurrected in any way that had not been established and foreshadowed, I wonder, would these same people be complaining that his resurrection made no sense? As Wimsey has already stated better than I can, THAT would be a deus ex machina and consequently sloppy storytelling.
Another thing I’m finding peculiar is the reactions by some internet outlets. In doing a cursory Google search for ‘Jon Snow’ earlier today, there were a number of articles that were expressing outrage at being lied to for 10 months, as if Dan and Dave and Kit owed us all the gods honest truth all along. It’s amusing in a rather unfunny way, the entitlement that some people have. Sure, this plot point may have been a poorly kept secret in the sense that most reasonable people knew there was no way we were done with Jon Snow. But how their marketing for this season kept Jon in everyone’s mind, and then to see that they haven’t dragged the reveal out beyond reason, I can’t help but feel the whole thing was handled about as well as one could expect.
I didn’t consider that! A missing body would continue the Easter imagery, if they go that direction.
Cameryn,
Ah, how could I forget that!
Thank the Gods today was a Bank Holiday in Scotland so I could watch at 2am live! And thank the Gods my flatmate wasn’t in otherwise I would have woken him up at the end. I knew it was coming but it was great that it finally happened and I didn’t think it would happen that way!
This season seems to be making me appreciate storylines I was previously “meh” about. Loved the Castle Black (bar Olly still being alive) and Ironborn scenes. Pilou Asbæk seems to be a great addition to the cast. Sophie and Gwendoline were fantastic again, a continuation from last week and I loved the comment about what Arya was dressed like.
I quite like Arya’s scenes. Sometimes it’s nice to have scenes where something is actually happening instead of people just talking (in certain cases when the plot isn’t actually developing). Will be interesting to see where her training takes her next.
I had a few slight issues with the episode one which surprised me (King’s Landing) and the others not so much (Tyrion/Ramsay) .
KL is confusing me a bit. How does Jaime not know why Cersei was arrested? Why is Tommen apologising to her and not furious about her and Lancel? Where is Kevan the supposed Hand of the King/Regent? I hope Cersei gets mad soon – I love Lena Headey’s acting but I am getting bored of the passive/sad/mumbly thing! I am surprised non English people don’t miss some of her lines. Let’s see her get mad at her enemies!
Tyrion….sigh. Ugh I am so tired of him and Varys, Varys kissing his arse, them both chewing the scenery, Peter Dinklage’s accent, the jokes, the storyline not really moving anywhere. I will be pissed if he ends up being the hero and saviour in Dany’s storyline while she fails and needs to be rescued.
I hate Ramsay with a passion! But that’s good acting that makes me hate him! The Roose thing was a bit silly though – what’s with all the kinslaying in Westeros amd utterly disloyal bannerman who do nothing to protect their liege lord! Poor Walda I was hoping the whole scene she would get mercy but sadly not 🙁
Amazing episode. I would love to write a full review but the episode really exhausted me (in a positive sense) so I will say just a few things:
First of all, I LOVED the fact that they didn’t overdramatise Jon’s resurrection or the wildlings’ attack. Yes, I know that a lot of people wanted to see Jon rising from a funeral pyre like a God reborn. I know that a lot of people wanted Ghost to rip out Olly’s throat and the wildlings kill ser Alliser. But this is Game of Thrones. There is no “good vs evil” and it is surely not a predictable show.
Ser Alliser continues to impress me. I was worried that the producers would go full villain on him but as far as I am concerned, his characterisation remained mostly the same.
About Jon’s resurrection, I think it was well done. Melisandre leaving, then Tormund, then Edd, then Davos… Only Ghost remained. Yes, it was surely expected, but still a nice moment. I actually thought for a second that Ghost died in order to bring back Jon.
Sansa and Theon: God! That hug really brought tears in my eyes. Nothing more to say.
Roose and Ramsay: My only issue about the scene is that I didn’t expect his death that soon. Nevertheless, Roose dying in the same manner as Robb was pretty satisfying. But Walda’s death… That was brutal. Karstark lord is a great addition to the show and he actually has reasons to follow the Boltons.
Balon and Euron: THAT’s the way to handle Balon’s death, not just a throwaway line. Both actors were great and Euron really has sinister presence. And as Mihnea said: No eyepatch!!!! I always judge actors by their performance, not by outlook. Another thing, I really liked the fact that Euron himself killed him, not some mysterious Faceless man. I will miss Patrick Malahide, even though his screen presence was brief.
Other scenes were good. King’s Landing, Winterfell flashback… perfectly fine. My only issue is Arya’s scene which was in my opinion too much like the first one.
I still have trouble ranking this episode. In my opinion, it rivals Kissed by Fire, which is my lowest 10-rated episode, currently on rank 13. I’m not so sure where to put this episode, but I think it will take place on rank 13 just below The Dance of Dragons, pushing Kissed by Fire to rank 14.
Side note: I really really hope that GoT Wikia will once return to its former fansite form. Although I LOVE Watchers on the Wall, I really miss a kind of encyclopedic page, which is not filled with countless comparison and rant articles. But with the certain administrator in charge, I know that is impossible. I really loved to edit articles, especially “Differences”.
Wiki says: Daenerys has Viserion and Rhaegal confined and chained in the Great Pyramid in a makeshift “dragon pit” beneath the city.
Tyrion’s introduction in Jon 1 in A Game of Thrones describes his hair as so blonde it was almost white. His mismatched eyes and dwarfism are the other tangible clues, apart from Ser Barristan’s hints. There are many others.
The hair color is the dead giveaway though. It describes his hair color from the very outset then is **never repeated** in the series, with the focus being on the color of his wiry beard — a different color than that on his head. It’s the sort of misdirection by omission that a writer of a series can get away with that a TV show cannot. They are different mediums.
Sorry it upsets you so much. but the evidence is large and mounting for it in the novels. What the show does is another thing entirely.
I was pleased to see that the Wildlings didn’t massacre the entire Night’s Watch, their restraint showed that they are aware that going on South of the wall the same way they were North of it won’t fly down there. It also helps Jon’s faith in saving them was not unfounded. Plus was doing nothing really an option for them? I mean, not only did the Lord Commander save them by making a very brave but equally unpopular decision to bring them South, but that decision cost him his life. He truly died for them, I think that’s deserving of at least a little loyalty. The only question (using this as a term, obviously the list of questions is lengthy to say the least) is; what now?
I don’t know how deeply the show will get into it, but how will they go about being if not accepted, than at least tolerated in Westeros? Will Davos Knight Tormund? It sounds like ridiculous question, but I believe a knight can be knighted by another Knight. It could help to lend legitimacy to them as a group, and let them feel that they have some skin in the game (of Thrones).
One thing this episode left me wondering; is the Three-eyed-Raven “Bloodraven” in the show? I know he used the “thousand eyes and one” line, but I didn’t see the port wine stain on his face, and the name Bloodraven hasn’t been uttered once as far as I can remember. Will he just be some random dude? Probably not, but they don’t have to make him Bloodraven, he could be just a Crow, maybe a well known crow. Maybe the Other we call the Nights King, but this guy is really him. I admit that one is probably not the case.
I have a bad feeling the “gift” that guy in next week’s preview that he’s presenting Ramsey is going to be Rickin, or Osha.
As for Roose Bolton’s death – I thought he died too early, tbh.
Keep this up and we will run out of villains on the show!
HousePotterz,
Blame GRRM. So much of the books is predicated on subverting predictability that when the predictable happens it feels banal.
Anyway, the scene itself was well presented but the sadist in me wanted the denouement held over another week at least – Ghost twitches – roll credits 😉
Cameryn,
Interesting – Also an option! I feel like there has to be some type of “x factor” that contributed to Jon’s resurrection. Mel was completely doubting herself, and appears on the verge of a breakdown. In that state, how was she able to do an extremely powerful spell that she had never even tried before? Maybe it was out of sheer desperation, but I’m thinking there is something else we don’t yet know about that made this resurrection possible.
Wimsey,
Heh, yeah, I looked at who wrote it and was surprised it wasn’t you! I agree it would have been very helpful if they included the previous rez on the previously on. I’ll be interested to see how the unsullied react to this,if they rememberred that this happened before
Lord Parramandas,
Another thing, I really liked the fact that Euron himself killed him, not some mysterious Faceless man.
I agree, but also liked that Euron’s face was hidden initially.
I know Dave Hill wrote this episode, but Beinoff and Weiss had to have major input in the final scene.
Ramsay looked unarmed except for a dagger strapped on his back, similar to the one that Bronn uses, which I’m sure that Roose was unaware of. Also, since there was another person in the room, Roose probably figured he was safe in that situation.
The reveal was a good one, I was expecting it to be a Faceless Man at first as it looked like the sort of cloak and hood we’ve seen Jaqen and “You have everywhere else to go” man wearing.
Why were Jamie and the Faith Militant allowed to bring weapons into the sept of Baelor?
I think there are two possibilities:
1. The delayed reaction was due to how long Jon had been dead. If you think back to Beric’s resurrection, even though we’re told it gets more difficult every time, and that was his 6th time, he’d only been dead for, what, a minute or two? Jon had been dead for going on 24 hours (perhaps a bit less, but still, significantly longer than Beric after the Hound killed him).
2. It wasn’t Melisandre who brought him back, or at least not only Melisandre.
As much as I’d like to believe it’s option #2, option #1, to me, is pretty logical.
What an episode! ‘Cackle’ is a good word, Sue.
I disagree though about the child of the forest. To me, they made her look like a ‘lady who lunches’ with that elaborate hairdo. I thought woodland creatures were wild, with matted wild hair with twigs and leaves and feathers stuck in it. When does she have time to brush and curl it? I preferred the one from last season that was a strange mix of adult and child.
The big thing is that Brienne LIED TO SANSA! So much for respect and loyalty.
She left Arya with a big man? That was The Hound, and she didn’t leave her with him, she near killed him and Arya disappeared. It was Theon who did the bulk of rescuing of Sansa while Brienne left her post to kill Stannis. I still don’t know how she managed to catch up to them way off in the woods.
When on earth is someone on that show going to state that it’s Cersai herself who empowered the High Sparrow so as to get rid of Tommen’s beloved, Margery?!
Cersai only stated the first half to Qyburn.
Wall Builder,
(dagger) which I’m sure that Roose was unaware of…
Roose doesn’t know that Ramsay carries a dagger? I have similar feelings to Roose’s death as I do to Hotah’s where usually cautious characters let their guard down at a convenient time. Full disclosure, I thought Roose made the move and was genuinely shocked. When I realized it was Ramsay I was like oh…hooray so my bias is def there in the open.
I could be totally wrong, but there’s something about the way they are playing it that makes me thing Cersei has lied to Jaime (“They arrested me and accused me of all these crimes, and to protect you, and to get back to Tommen I lied and confessed to one of the crimes.”) Something about the way he was saying to Tommen how Cersei has endured all that she has for him (Tommen) makes me think he doesn’t know she was actually guilty of that particular sin. I feel like Lancel still being around (though we haven’t seen him yet), and Bronn who can confirm the accuracy of that affair is a bit of a gun waiting to be fired.
Steel_Wind,
..but the eye sees something different. In season 1, his hair was blonder, but not white-blond. Then they darkened it.
I don’t like the idea that he’s Targ, so I’m going to chip away at it.
kit_hepburn,
I must admit on a second watch I much preferred the KL scenes and felt my criticisms were a bit harsh but I can’t edit my comment from before! Oops! I guess I should appreciate that Cersei isn’t taking a leaf out of Ramsay/Ellaria’s book and going on a murder spree. Yet.
You are probably right and I hope you are right because this relationship needs to end!
Wow! Just watched it twice- I was away this weekend and had to block all social media to avoid being spoiled!
Fantastic episode, truly brilliant! But that’s mostly on the basis of the acting talents of the cast (Sophie/ Gwendoline and especially Alfie.. that guy really needs to get an Emmy!). Also the cinematography, lighting and sets are outstanding.
Plenty of twists, dramatic points and of course the part we all expected/ hoped would happen. All in all 9/10.. On all of those merits.
I have to say in contrast though, the writing/scripts are really, really weak. Brans flashback scene at WF/ Cersei-Tommen and even Eurons (sorry folks) scenes were very poorly written, and you can really tell they’re out on their own here without the books to support the narrative.
Still loved the episode though!
But I don’t see many comments on Tyrion placating the dragons…
kit_hepburn,
..yea And maybe it’s the High Sparrow himself who intends to fire it!
I would not call it undead. No decaying body parts. No hunger for brains.
The power of R’hllor has healed his injuries and returned him to life.
Apollo,
…I think I agree on the writing. From 601, it felt a little modern to me. Westerosi have a peculiar way of speaking. My ear didn’t hear that in these two episodes, so far. …and other things.
Dementia,
But, wasn’t the reason she chained them that they were eating small children? Unless that itself was a lie and plot from the Harpys to get the dragons confined.
Episode 3 preview: Edd Stark?
Ginevra,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
..and if Jon takes off, where do you think is the first place he’ll go?!
RG,
I was watching Mel’s necklace too during the resurrection scene.
I hated the CoTF 2.0 (not that using an actual child in Season 4 was any better). This CoTF looked like Generic Alien #7 from any Star Trek TV show.
Cag,
Ok. So Tormund has sent men to ready a pyre. When they come back to get the body, what happens next?
If Jon has taken off, as some have suggested, they may think he’s become a walker. They may think his body has been stolen away? They may not know what has happened. If word doesn’t get to Mel fast enough, she may indeed kill, or try to kill, herself.
It could be that this woman who has killed many people, can’t bear to kill her own self. She may just take the necklace off again and hope not to wake up…then Davos finds her in an aged state…
My theory is that Yara is going to put two and two together. She was just with her father, who would have crossed that bridge hundreds of times in weather like that – probably even much worse than that. And I’m guessing Euron shows up in the next episode with the cut on his cheek. The cut must mean something- everything on this show does.
So… I think I’m having trouble feeling invested or excited, now that the series has passed the books. I’ve found both episodes so far to be “pretty good”, but that’s about it.
Everyone else is raving, but… I don’t know… it just feels a little weird. The dialogue doesn’t sound right, and the deaths feel forced (Doran, Roose).
I liked the episode, particularly the Ned/Lyanna flashback, and Jon’s resurrection… but I just can’t get excited as everyone else. I have to admit I’m surprised to see so many people saying it was one of the best episodes ever.
JCDavis,
…Wimsey, is that you?!
lmao
That’s it exactly! Don’t misunderstand me-I’ve really enjoyed them, but they definitely feel different-a little clunkier.
Write it down. It will be stannis in Jon’s Body.
Rag,
I am excited to see the responses you get to this.
Lex,
Something feels weird about it. I have to concede that though I’ve been happy with both episodes generally. I am wondering if it has something to do with the fast pace? We barely have time to get into a story line and we are off again. That isn’t typical for season openers is it? I think it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the time spent at each season season by season.
Also, as someone on the Hame of Owns podcast said, this was sort of gratuitous fan pleasing episode. We got so many things we wanted.
rorschach,
Now that Ramsay has evaporated the Frey/Bolton alliance by killing Walda and her infant, I imagine the Freys will want to evaporate Ramsay. It’s not that I think Walder cares so much for his daughter, but that he cares for his alliance, which is now no more.
I think the guy just got his cheek cut, we shouldn’t draw too much into this. When Jon was scratched to hell by that eagle (or ever when Tyrion was slashed across the face), it really had no other significance.
Trajan’s Justice,
Nothing like an army of undead ice zombies to bring people together.
Tigger,
I think if you watch the scene very closely we see five of the six Bolton men killed. I was trying to work out where the dogs went so kept freeze framing to see what was going on in the background. The two guys with the dogs have shields on their backs which I don’t think the four on horses do, which is useful when you’re trying to work out who’s who. One of the dog handlers joins in towards the end, as far as I remember he’s the one Theon kills. We don’t see what happens to the other handler and the dogs, he is still guarding Sansa for most of the fight, but it wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume he uses the fact that everyone else is either fighting or watching the fighting to make a run for it. It’s possible they catch up with him later and kill him I suppose? Not sure what happens to the sixth guy but I am sure there would have been five bodies rather than four.
Anon
Maybe Brienne doesn’t realise that Sansa knows who the Hound is? IIRC I don’t think she (B) did herself until Pod told her. I think they may have wanted to avoid mentioning him FILMING SPOILERS
George,
..She may have to ride that dragon to get to Westoros, seeing how things are going.
Anon,
Now that Ramsay has evaporated the Frey/Bolton alliance by killing Walda and her infant, I imagine the Freys will want to evaporate Ramsay.
Lord Frey better grow eyes in the back of his head. I think it’s likely one of his sons (or bastards) takes a shot at him before Ramsay.
Lulus Mum,
That may be it. I wonder why she didn’t tell Sansa about the swordfight with the big man which caused Arya to slip away? I’m guessing Brienne is covering up her failures because they’re eating away at her.
Maybe Brienne isn’t so blindly loyal, after all.
Sorry but I think you’re gonna be massively disappointed: I really don’t see Frey pies happening (Freys won’t even be in the North as far as we’ve learned).
I am doing my Monday rewatch now. Here I go again.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I agree. I don’t see how they’ve become BFF’s all of a sudden. I think he at least suspects that’s she’s killed Shireen.
I wonder if Mel can read? Has anyone seen her read in earnest? She took the letter from Davos, made a show about looking at it, then threw it into the fire. I guess if you can’t read words, you read flames.
Anyway…random thought. It could be that Davos has compassion for her. I don’t know.
Actually, nope. I wish I knew half of what that guy does. I have just known him for quite a long time between the Harry Potter forums and the Lord of the Rings forums.
I am always quite baffled at how I think I know something so well and then I come here and people amaze me with their ability to recall tiny details that I don’t even remember reading. Or know background history that I didn’t even know existed.
I like to give credit where I think credit is due. Then of course there is the obvious different between us. He stands to pee and I squat!!!
I had to do a few reruns on this scene as I couldn’t quite make out what was happening. Whilst it’s true to say that Brienne “should” know that Sansa would realise who the Hound is, I can’t be certain Brienne would figure this out (let’s be honest… she’s hardly the sharpest Valyrian sword in the armoury). Alternatively- maybe she just wanted to spare Sansa the knowledge Arya was with the hound.
That’s not really a lie but an “honourable omission”.
Brienne would never lie to Sansa without a damn good reason. Fact.
Are you on your own, traveling down the only road you’ve ever known? Like a drifter were you born to walk alone and have you made up your mind? You ain’t wastin’ no more time, so here you go again…….
Couldn’t help it, I just saw David Coverdale with Deep Purple.
Disagree completely: Davos doesn’t suspect Melisandre was the one responsible for Shireen’s death because he cannot fathom Stannis would allow such a thing. Remember, that would mean Stannis Baratheon was absolutely complicit in such a heinous act, and regardless of his personal feelings toward Melisandre, his devotion to Stannis never wavered – not even when he was in jail.
As for this episode, I don’t see it as Davos and Melisandre becoming BFFs. He’s seen what she’s capable of: remember he’s the one who saw her literally give birth to a demon. Knowing full well that Jon might be the only person who can keep the peace now that the Wildlings are south of the Wall, it’s completely believable that he would turn to Melisandre to ask her to resurrect Jon. He doesn’t trust her, or even like her, but she’s certainly the best option at the moment.
When circumstances warrant later on and he finds out what Melisandre did to Shireen, though, I have absolutely no doubt Davos will put his sword through her heart without hesitation. But that won’t happen, I think, until Melisandre sees Winterfell again, like she’s meant to from her visions.
Yeah I’ve also said the same- scripts are pretty bad. Great acting, scenery etc though.
koempel,
I thought Roose Bolton was a bit stupid/arrogant to keep taunting Ramsay with the impending birth of a son. Sorta surprised Walda hadn’t taken a bad fall down some stairs or something prior to giving birth.
That’s true. I guess my point is that in an upcoming war, the Frey’s won’t be on Ramsay’s side.
I loved Lyanna’s appearance. Although Brann having to name check all the charcters was somewhat clunky. I know it needs to be done but I think that scene needed to be slightly longer to breathe between character check. There was some great stuff in the episode but..
I don’t want to whinge but the resurrection did not play out as I thought. The motivations just seemed a bit plonked together. Why did Davos not ask Mel to find Stannis and bring him back if he thought she could? Even sticking with those scenes, the dialogue could have been different. I’m not a writer so apologies for bad lines but…
Davos goes to see Mel
D- I followed Stannis and now he is dead. Stannis saw something in Jon Snow and now he is dead too.
M- could mumble something about asking the Lord of Light to show her hope but all he shows her is snow
D- The wildings said the snows bring the long night and that they thought only Jon could lead the realms of men against the dead.
M- All he shows is snow
D- I’ve seen you do some unbelievable things. Is Jon in the Lord’s snow? Can a man be brought back? Who else can lead against the army of the dead?
M- I met a man who could. He said the Lord’s words and the Lord worked through him. But the Lord of Light has abandonned me.
D- Come, at least say the words for Jon.
I also really wanted someone to say ‘and now his watch is ended’ while in the room with the body.
There is a theory that Hodor is repeating the last thing he heard before getting injured and it’s “Hold the Door”.
What if Lyanna really is kidnapped and she asks Wylis to “hold the door” to stop her kidnappers but he gets forced back and injured.
Only trouble is that unlike the show Hodor in the books is a lot younger than Ned and his siblings so his backstory in the books would be different.
I had dismissed this idea on the grounds that it initially over-simplified things: the Umbers could not be fighting on the Bolton’s side against anyone unless they had turned against the Starks. It still is overly-simplistic: when faced with an outside threat (e.g., Wildlings or southerners), Northerners would put aside their differences until that threat was finished: and then they’d go back to war with themselves.
However: what if there has been a set of “young Turk” revolutions in some of the Northern Houses? It is too easy to buy into the “Everyone Loves the Starks because They Are So Good and Noble” trap. The Starks could well be quite unpopular. After all, Starks have twice in 20 years led the Northerners into war, the most recent time with disastrous consequences. Catelyn Stark freed a Lannister all for the sake of getting her two daughters back. Robb executed a respected Northern lord. And now a Stark bastard has just let the Wildlings into the Kingdom after spreading crazy stories about White Walkers returning. In short, the Starks might be viewed by a lot of Northerners (and particularly younger ones) in the way that Americans viewed Jimmy Carter 35 years ago. The “young Turks” might feel that it’s time for a change in the guard, both within their houses and in the whole kingdom.
The books provide the potential for something like this, too. I now wonder if a Stark restoration is going to be more difficult than we thought!
I am not sure that I expect this to happen: but given that Ramsay and Karstark obviously were in cahoots, and given that Ramsay seems to expect the Umbers and Manderlys to join in the “fun,” I now wonder if the “northern conspiracy” has been completely opposite of what people have posited!
Not that funny. Last week, though a good, perhaps great episode by regular television standards, was one of the lowest rated GoT episodes ever, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4077554/?ref_=tt_ep_nx, at 8.4 and falling. Even at 8.4, it’s tied with a couple of others for second-lowest, with the lowest being Sansa’s rape episode. On the other hand, as others are saying, Home is among the best-rated of the series, http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0944947.
I love rewatching almost every GoT episode (and Sherlock), but I don’t enjoy rewatching any other shows. And last week’s rewatch wasn’t as much of a joy as it normally is. This week, I’m stoked!
Real people don’t pause when doing name checks: they roll through a picture pointing out Aunt Jenny, Crazy Uncle Fester, Cousin Jim, my brother Ralph, I don’t remember who that is, our old dog Barky, etc., etc. Because he was talking to BR, it all seemed pretty normal sounding.
Ok, fair enough. But remember that Pod is an encyclopedia(thanks to Tyrion). What did Brienne and Pod talk about on their long rides? I imagine he filled her in on all the Kings Landing drama related to Sansa.
Anyway, it seems paternalistic of Brienne to spoonfeed Sansa(theoretically), after all she knows Sansa’s been through. It stinks.
I think Brienne is doing it out of self-interest.
Well, there you have it: Davos’ ability to drink the Kool Aid.
He is in for a dark night of the soul himself when he finds out he supported a monster(in Stannis), and what that support cost the little girl that was like a daughter to him. I do agree that when he finds out for certain, he will kill Mel.
However, Davos was more than concerned that a siege was no place for a child when he asked to take Shireen to Castle Black with him. In his final goodbye to her, he knew in his heart something was wrong. Surely, if Stannis would not burn his child, then Stannis would not let his child suffer through a held siege in the cold north: Murderers and rapers vs battlefield conditions and starvation.
The moral logic doesn’t add up.
Morality has no logic: that is a key difference between any morality and ethics. But, once again, I think that this type of thinking is overly simplistic. Davos is going to be furious at Mel. He obviously will not kill her if she is back on form: she is more than able to defend herself. However, I do not think that she will try. Instead, it will threaten to undo everything that the two build up over the season.
Ravyn,
I don’t think she wanted to talk about her time there at all; I doubt he had sex with his wife once
Ginevra,
True – to be honest, not much could have redeemed Episode. 1 for me! Although there really were some diamonds in the rough there as well, and Alfie Allen just keeps impressing me more and more. 🙂
Anon,
I wondered about this too. My first thought (after initial revulsion) was the Freys aren’t going to like this. On one hand Walder has some many kids I wonder if he would care. On the other, lord Bolton is already persona non grata with the crown, and the missing Freys in the books are causing a split between Freys and Boltons at Winterfell. And then of course any mistreatment or murder of a member of a family is a reflection on that family’s standing. I hope you are right!
I’m hoping the “gift” someone is giving Ramsey next week is not Rickon.
I watch a lot of violent tv/movies but I had to look away during the scene with Walda, her baby and the dogs.
I couldn’t bear to see something similar happen to a Stark Child.
Wimsey,
Huh…I thought you had ruptured a kidney trying not to comment to me directly.
I just rewatched this episode and was again struck by something during the confrontation between Euron and Balon: did you notice how much trouble Balon had standing on the bridge as it swayed, but Euron was steady while the bridge roiled? It struck me that Euron looked like a captain standing on the deck of a ship in a storm, like a rock. Balon looked weak in comparison. Such a visual representation of their respective roles.
I’m not sure that anyone else has mentioned this yet, but Wun Wun’s utter smashing of the NW archer who shot him in the shoulder was reminiscent of Wun Wun’s treatment of Ser Patrek at the end of ADwD just before FTW. Yes! Another fine adaptation! 🙂
But wouldn’t Podrick Firestarter know both of these things? As squire to Hand of the King, he should’ve been able to name all kingsguard, right? And as the promised bride to the crowned prince, he would have known Sansa knew him, as well, right? Rewatching, Podrick was right there within ear shot when Brienne said these lines. It does strike me as a bit odd.
Rag,
We’ll know because he will be correcting everyone’s grammar.
CenPhx,
Noticed that too. Balon let go of the ropes after he saw that Euron was standing there without a problem.
It is fine.
Yes, but also 1.) to kill the boy and let the man be born and 2.) to become Azor Ahai Reborn. Perhaps I’m wrong about AAR, but I would think that would be the biggest reason that Jon needed to die: to be reborn a man and a hero, the Last Hero.
Alice,
I actually think that’s exactly what’s going to happen. Beric lost something each time he was resurrected, and Jon is going to lose some of his naivety and his willingness to forgive, i.e. “Kill the boy, and let the man be born.” That might take on a literal meaning if he actually beheads Olly for being a traitor, rather than just a symbolic one. It’s brutal, but if he’s going to win the War against the White Walkers then he’s going to have to learn to be much tougher with his enemies.
I know everybody is going insane over the possibility that Tyrion is going to be a dragon rider after this episode, but I really, really hope that he isn’t. It’s just too obvious to make the downtrodden imp ultimately the dragon riding hero. Too mainstream. Aside from that, I think the possibility of him having Targaryen blood really detracts from his storyline with Tywin. There’s something poetic about a man disowning the child who most obviously mirrors his intellect and abilities to rule a kingdom because he can’t see past his grief at his wife’s death and his perception of his son’s disfigurement. All the while, his twins are committing incest and producing another ‘Mad King’ in Joffrey. I absolutely think one of the Lannister siblings will ride Viserion. GRRM has practically given away the game away by making him their house colours. I just think it’s a hell of a lot more likely that it’ll be Jaime after Tommen is dead, (probably by Cersei’s hand, intentionally or not,) and he becomes the Valonqar. He needs some great deeds to fill the book that Joffrey mocked him over.
Does anybody else think that Dany is just going to cut her losses in the East by the end of this season? I’m dying for her to mirror Aegon and fly to Dragonstone before launching her attack on Westeros. Somebody needs to be mining all that dragonglass anyway. Oh and Benjen has got to be back this season. The flashback seemed to all but confirm it.
DireWolfHeart,
That’s what I’m thinking too… I believe they went immediately from the Sansa/Theon scene to the Iron Islands scene because they want us to think Theon is headed back to the Iron Islands. I think when he said he’s going home he actually meant Winterfell. In the next couple episodes I think we’ll start hearing reports of Bolton soldiers turning up dead. It will be the show’s version of the Hooded Man. Theon will eventually complete his redemption by sacrificing himself in some way to allow Jon and Sansa to take down Ramsay.
I haven’t seen a link to that, yet, but I love this link, http://www.gossipcop.com/game-of-thrones-entertainment-weekly-jon-snow-alive-spoilers-kit-harrington-cover/. Apparently everyone is in an uproar because an entertainment news magazine reported the news too newly.
I found a brief article with the quote. http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/02/kit-harington-game-of-thrones-ew-cover
Black Raven,
Jon’s final word “Ghost”.
I think Jon’s final thought is a clue to your question about grrm’s route.
“The Lion and the Rose,” aka the Purple Wedding, was a highly rated second episode.
How did you gather this information, Wimsey?
I disagree. Jon has always expressed empathy and understanding for others, but he is ruled by logic, by rational thought, and by an overwhelming sense of duty. If he never accepts back the role of Lord Commander, then it is possible that the traitors will survive. But JonBefore and JonAfter, if acting as Lord Commander, would both absolutely do their duty. There is no way that mutineers could ever possibly escape a death sentence when Ned whacked off that poor guy’s head just for abandoning the Night’s Watch.
Olly might be an exception since he’s never taken the black, right? But the brothers who participated must all be separated from their heads.
Again, I’m left wondering about your research methods. Davos would agree that there’s nothin’ like mutton, but he may have never dabbled in Manderly pie.
Love! And I completely agree. Dany is a conqueror and a savior, but no ruler.
Cameryn,
Do you not remember in season 5 when Davos tries to convince Stannis to take Shireen back with him to Castle Black? He clearly suspects it could happen. Anyway, his hatred for Mel runs much deeper than that. His motivational talk to her deserves much criticism.
I don’t have any issue with how he pulled it off in the room. I mean anyone can kill anyone at any time in any room if they really wanted to. There are repercussions though for killing people, especially powerful people, it’s why you can’t just kill anyone when you want to. That’s why I felt Roose’s death was sloppy and lazily done. I really doubt Ramsey could just kill him there without facing some sort of repercussions. Roose was a powerful and well respected guy within his own house.
https://youtu.be/CtjuDJytD18?t=5m6s
I’m not saying it is definite, either way, but I felt like Benioff was tapping his nose, here.
Ginevra,
I am with you. Heads must roll. But, as much as I hate to say it, I also think Olly may be spared- at least, for now.
Just did a rewatch again tonight… amidst a crazy lightning storm taking place outside. Kindof surreal seeing the windows light up, feeling the house shake, and watching Balon reunite with the drowned god….
I love how I can debate and debate with Wimsey, and he never takes it personally. He just respectfully and intelligently debates back.
And I appreciate how most veteran commenters will only include the relevant parts of the comments to which they are responding. If I want more details, I can always click on the link to the quoted comment, just like you can click on “JCDavis” in this post to see the full, original comment.
I was thinking it could be for dramatic appeal, as well. As everybody started leaving the room and it was just Jon and Ghost, I thought, I guess we’ll have to wait until the next episode. I was almost giving up when Ghost perked up his head, which made me perk up mine.
There are other reasons, too. It will be even more surprising to those who gave up when they see NekkidJon streaking through the castle yard.
I think we’re saving his return to Winterfell for later in the season, but he could be roaming other parts of Castle Black.
So Tyrion may be one of the heads of the dragon. Since they are so intelligent and such magical creatures, and some are saying that Mel isn’t responsible for Jon’s rebirth- is it possible the dragons know something we don’t?
Stargaryen,
If I am not mistaken he (Euron) smiled after seeing he was cut/bleeding.
I went back and watched it. Euron does smile. He does have a look of panic prior to smiling though. I am not sure if the cut to his face is a nod to
or if Euron
I am conflicted about which I’d prefer, but am relieved/impressed that the Ironborn look presentable (and even kinda badass) so far.
Geralt of Rivia,
I’m fairly certain that Dany’s birth to Rhaella on Dragonstone in the middle of a storm is well attested.
Did he do his duty with Ygrette? I agree he can’t kill Ollie. Not unless he is changed.
Dani,
Don’t be a killjoy. Tyrion always wanted a dragon and knows a lot about him.
I honestly don’t see him riding one. But it would be nice. And he doesn’t have to be a Targarean to do that.
Ginevra,
Why didn’t Brienne tell Sansa it was the hound? Good question! And something new to discuss !
I think now that Dave and Dan have to spend more time outlining the season, they have less time to write and polish the scripts. They really do an incredible amount of quality writing for the limited time they have, but now it’s starting to catch up with them.
I think we’ll see Bryan Cogman’s scripts as being much weaker since D & D probably didn’t have as much time to rewrite them. Remember that epic conversation between Yoren and Arya before he’s killed by the soldiers from King’s Landing? Bryan Cogman originally wrote that as a conversation between Arya and Hot Pie, before D & D rewrote it. That’s kind of an example of the difference between D & D and Bryan Cogman right there.
Dave Hill’s script for “Home” was subpar, a lot of silliness including the guy bragging about flashing Cersei in King’s Landing. It’s like Hill was looking at previous scenes for inspiration, and he mimiced the Arya / Hound season 3 scene where the guy was bragging about sewing the Wolf’s head on Rob’s body. Plus he included pinky finger imitating small penis from that annoying whore at Mols Town in season 4. Some of the Tyrion dialogue was clunky too among other poor writing in the episode (“punch me in the face”).
I think D & D made a mistake in promoting their interns who had 0 writing credits to their name and who are probably at best good fan fiction writers. They should’ve went out and went through a whole bunch of resumes and hired actual writers, and more than two of them. There is just too much on their plate at this point.
Ginevra,
Fog isn’t smoke. Neither is mist.
And even if there was smoke there, he died in it, he wasn’t reborn in it.
Anon,
They never ate any children ..they prefer and like eating ghosts .
Even drogon dont eat and children ..that one incident with the girl may be due to .
The girl was accidentally close to the goats and got burned
Or it was a plot of harpies to make dany chain them ..
Drogon eats horses not babies. ..
Ginevra,
LOL What a surprise there was snowy mist in the north and at the wall .
So one must die amidst salt and smoke .
And where was the bleeding start or any flaming sword that is pulled from fire .
Demon Monkey,
But he must have the valyrian blood and right drop of it to ride one .which I doubt he has inside him .
HousePotterz,
Jon Snow is my favorite character (tied with Cersei, unrelated) and I’m really happy he’s back, but I agree with everyone who thinks this is poor storytelling. The best analogy I can think of is if season 1 had ended with Daenerys walking into the pyre rather than with Daenerys+dragons the next morning. It just comes off as kind of stupid – like nobody thinks Jon/Dany is going to die before the end, and if they cut out some of the fluff from season 5 and closed with Jon’s resurrection, that would’ve been hugely dramatic and exciting (like the dragons).
Ironically, the other analogy I can think of is one GRRM has talked about in interviews, with Gandalf dying and coming back. Gandalf’s death had *consequences*; if he hadn’t died, he would probably have been able to avert the Fellowship breaking up at the end of the first book. And without his leadership, the other characters had to learn to lead themselves, etc, etc. So the absence of Gandalf had a tangible effect on the story and characters. Similarly, I thought that Jon’s death would mean something to the story – like maybe, while he’s dead, the Wall would come down or something. Like something really significant to justify his being dead. But nope, he dies and then 20 minutes of Wall screen-time later, without deaths of any named characters or any particular dramatic tension, he’s back again!
Since nothing new happened in the intervening time between Jon’s death and his resurrection, it makes it feel like the death/resurrection thing was one story and not two, so it should’ve been finished off in one season instead of being split up into two. (Like, how stupid would it have been if season 2 had ended with Cersei getting ready to poison Tommen, instead of ten seconds later when you find out they actually won? It’s just cheap.)
I realize that maybe they didn’t want to spoil the books, but there’s a point at which you have to realize that a show is a show and books are books, and the show has to be good independently of the books. I can believe the showrunners were just trying to be respectful to GRRM, but if you haven’t read the books, this whole Jon Snow thing just looks like an attention-grab. It would only have been worth it if Jon had been out for 6-7 episodes and something totally crazy had happened because he was dead.
Of course that’s just my opinion. There were other things about the episode that I thought were great, like Sansa finding out Arya was alive, all the Bran stuff, and Cersei talking to Tommen. And they’ve really done a great job with cinematography this year, I can’t get over how beautiful some of the shots are.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
fwiw I agree with you on roose’s death. of course all deaths don’t have to be incredibly gory, but even tywin’s death was really emotionally charged, and its perpetrator was a “screw-consequences-and-everyone-and-everything” tyrion rather than “i-want-power” ramsay. it made much more sense for tyrion to recklessly murder the person in charge. and somehow the leadup to tywin’s death was both more subtle and more compelling than ramsay’s one-note murder of roose. both the dorne and winterfell leader deaths are also annoying to me because ramsay and ellaria apparently got the support of other people beforehand, but this was never been mentioned or foreshadowed anywhere. bleh.
unrelated, but as far as that brienne/sansa conversation goes, I didn’t interpret her omission of the Hound’s name as having anything to do with her motives or honesty or loyalty or whatever. I thought that was purely just because the writers didn’t want to drop any spoilery reminders, and not really a reflection of brienne at all.
*grumble grumble* i’ve been so irritated at people all through the off-season who said they were worried about the show’s writing, and now here we are. two episodes in and i am now one of those people D:
Hmmm, maybe not- but it helps a hell of a lot if he does have Targ blood.
The dragons took an instant liking to Tyrion. Although as devils advocate perhaps that’s more due to the fact they sensed he wasn’t a threat. That aside, they trusted him enough to get close where he liberated them. As Tyrion said, dragons are more intelligent than humans- my guess is they are gonna have a pretty strong bond with Tyrion moving forward, mirroring the freedmens love of their Mhysha/breaker of chains.
Lastly, Tyrion mentions his childhood desire to have a dragon- and so in a couple of scenes you have a whole load of those damn Chekov’s guns being hung (grossly overused phrase on this forum but I’ll use it anyway).
I really can’t see any other outcome to this; their gratitude/ trust in Tyrion, his knowledge and childhood dreams, numerous pieces of foreshadowing (such as S5 sighting of Drogon) and (POTENTIALLY) his lineage will undoubtedly result in him being a dragon rider.
Chai from Asshai,
It isn’t so much I wanted his death to be spectacular, I just wanted it to make more sense. Maybe if Roose, Ramsey and some Bolton soldiers rode to Castle Black, and Ramsey ambushed Roose with the men loyal to him. Then when he got back to Winterfell, he blamed it on some Iron Born or whoever. Also, he didn’t need to kill Walda immediately. That scene was so anti-climactic I almost took a nap during it.
Wimsey,
Yes you are right and I did enjoy the scene. I’m more thinking of people like my mum who need a bit more time to process character name introductions… She still just calls Tyrion Imp-y though!
Chai from Asshai,
We don’t know yet what effect Jons death and resurrection will have on the story. And it has affected the story. It’s made allies of Mel and Davos, it’s put Thorne and co in cells. I expect there will be more.
I think Jon’s resurrection was anticlimactic.
1- If Davos thinks Mel can resurrect someone, shouldn’t he be trying to bring back Stannis or Shireen? Why would he care so much about Jon?
2- Why would he want to bring back anybody? He thinks Mel is a witch, and suspects her for Shireen death. And really, in every culture people think that bringing back the dead is a very bad idea, probably even more in a place where the dead actually walk.
3- What was all that beauty treatment that Mel gave Jon about? She cleans him, cuts his hair, trims his beard, wash his hair. Boy, R’hllor is all about the looks right?
Winter is delayed,
+1.
GRRM has hung enough guns that Jon Snow warging into Ghost is not completely impossible.
1) GRRM has set up a relationship between the Starks and their direwolves. Bran, Arya, Rickon, and Jon all have wolf-dreams. Robb probably did as well. Sansa is the only Stark who never had wolf-dreams, and that’s because her direwolf was killed immediately after she got it. This is the same level of mystical connection that Targs have with dragons.
2) Mel’s fire vision that showed Snow, then a wolf, then Snow again.
3) Jon Snow’s final word was “Ghost.”
4) Jon Snow never felt the fourth knife, only the cold.
Then add the fact that the show deliberately set it up so that Ghost was the only living being in the room when Jon Snow was resurrected.
All I’m saying is that I’m not discounting the possibility that Jon Snow warged into Ghost in the books.
Apollo,
I think they were covering their backs when they had Tyrion mention that dragons are intelligent. There’s the old saying about children and animals being good judges of character, and I believe that’s a far better explanation than automatically assuming that he’s going to be a dragon rider, whether he has Targaryen blood or not. I do think it’s important that he’s able to get close to them however. I can imagine him designing a saddle for Jaime that makes it easier for him to ride Viserion because of his missing hand, in the same way that he came up with one to help Bran ride a horse, and to do that he’s going to have to get close to them.
Aside from anything else, Tyrion’s real gift is his brain and his abilities as a strategist. Why would you risk losing that by plonking him on a dragon and making him fight? He’ll be the one responsible for bringing the kingdom back together after the War when he advises whoever’s going to end up on the throne.
“Never work with children or animals.” –W.C. Fields
Dani,
But how can Jaime ride a dragon if he dies at the hands of LSH…. 😉
Firstly, is it wrong that I’m kind of turned on by Plant-Girl CotF?(assuming that she’s of legal age kind of hard to tell).
Secondly; who do you think has Dragon-crap cleanup duty? Those things have been down there for a long time, it must be like Cat box after not being changed for a couple weeks, only WAY worse.
Thirdly, we all (myself included) assume that Ollie will be executed, but what if he’s not? Is it possible LC Snow pardons him? Maybe to demonstrate that in the same way he forgives Ollie for killing him, so should the NW forgive the Wildlings for the attack on Castle Black. I admit this probably won’t happen, and I don’t know if they could keep him around CB seeing that while he may be forgiven, he can’t be trusted. Maybe they can send him to another fort on the Wall. Or make him and Tormund take part in some corporate team-building exercise; Ollie has to close his eyes and fall backward and Tormund has to catch him 😉
Also, how do people think Melisandra will act when she realises that TLOL brought Jon Snow back from the dead? Will she go back to her cool, (over)confident self, or will she conduct herself with more humility?
Trajan’s Justice,
I can’t see D&D showing our newly resurrected hero executing a young boy. If he was gonna die then the Wildlings would’ve surely taken him out at the storming of CB when they had the chance.
My guess is he’ll forgive and pardon him, after all he was simply acting out of vengeance for his family (something Jon almost did himself), but perhaps Olly will be one of the bodies burning in ep9.
MearaReed,
Missandre said the dragons hadn’t eaten since Dany left, but does that timing also coincide with Jon’s death? Could they not eat because they sensed he was dead?
VP,
Jon was dead for about a day and a half. Not sure how long it’s been since Daeny flew off, but it’s been longer than that.
Sullied by Knight,
He was only dead for one day. Killed one night and resurrected the next.
Sullied by Knight,
Was it a day and a half though? I don’t think it was that long. The show doesn’t seem to hold time lines when they’re showing what’s going on over the kingdom. So let’s say it’s 800pm at the wall, then they show an hour go by there. I don’t necessarily think when they pan down to Kings Landing, it’s now 900pm.
I think Davis came upon the body pretty soon after he was killed (I’m sure Ghost started howling right after was killed, I don’t think it took hours and hours for him to notice), then they brought into the room. Thorne held the meeting with the rest of the brothers, they went to retrieve the body that was locked, told David he had until sundown(I’m assuming the killing happened in the early AM hours. Not really a big deal, but I read on forums that some thought days went by, I think it was hours.
As for Snow not killing Ollie, I have no problem seeing the LC executing him for mutiny(even if he didn’t want to), but also this point, we don’t know WHO exactly Jon is now that he’s been raised. I have a feeling he’s going to be a colder, more extremely pragmatic person replace the person he was.
“Kill the boy Jon Snow, kill the boy and let the man live.”
Are we sure Theon is heading for the Iron Islands? He says home – it did not feel like home the last time he went there… Maybe home is Winterfell after all?
DireWolfHeart,
I think so too! I was even so unpatient in sharing this that I commented before I read your comment☺ Was my first thought when I heard him say home. This kid is ready for some redemption!
My sister and I were talking about Walder Freys possible reaction to Waldas death and she pointed out to me while he might not care about Walda so much, he IS likely to care that his grandson, the new heir to Winterfell, was killed. That is if the news gets out about what Ramsay did.
Ghosts Lunch,
Oh I know why she said it – she was just checking off the list of prophecis ‘crown of gold, check, shroud of gold, check’ her comment to Tommen I think was supposed to be ironic.
I know most, if not all, discount that Jon warged into Ghost – at least in the show version – myself included, for now. However, upon rewatching I did notice how Ghost is awake at the beginning of Mel’s attempt, watching, and then apparently out, eyes closed, at the end.
Just thought it interesting that they didn’t show him drop his head back down in defeat as everyone else admitted failure too. He was just out. And then he woke up, whined, looked at Jon, and Jon gasped awake. Hmmm.
Did Olly ever actually take the black, or is he just hanging with the brothers? If he’s someone not part of the Night’s Watch, he wasn’t committing the mutiny and high treason that Thorne, Yarwyck, and Marsh were. But he was attempting murder, and for that, Jon may have him take the black with the promise that, should Olly ever again attack his LC, his head would roll as a consequence. However, if he had said the words and taken the black, he’ll be tried and treated as a brother, and a brother couldn’t be forgiven for such treason.
Wait, who’s to say Ramsey wont face repercussions? Infact i for one believe that his killings of Roose and Walda will come back to haunt him in the end.
Were any Umbers killed at The Red Wedding?
Direwolf Lvr,
I had the same thought but then i read somewhere that in the behind the scenes of the episode (which i never watch before the end of the season, but end up spoiled on most of the content because i browse comments and forums), Benioff said that Ghost was feeling Jon coming back and that’s why he reacted just before Jon woke.
I think he would have been more cryptic if he wanted to keep the ambiguity.
Hodor!
(What, the last comment in a thread can’t be “Hodor” too?) 😉
Sean C.,
The dragons are actually said to be Dany’s karma. In a theory. Her dragons going wild = she forgot her true destiny lies in Westeros not Slaver’s Bay.