It’s finally here! The Season Six premiere of Game of Thrones has aired, with some glorious fights, plenty of Dornish deaths and that shocking end scene. Let’s check out some of the interviews and videos examining “The Red Woman.”
Carice van Houten spoke to Entertainment Weekly about that revelatory end-scene and how she feels about her character’s true age
I was really happy when I read that we were going to reveal that this year. I don’t think a lot of people will see that coming. It makes her immediately more vulnerable, but also more wise and even more mysterious. There’s also a vulnerability in her age.
The actress revealed that the showrunners only told her of Melisandre’s real age while shooting this season, but it’s helped put some of her actions into context.
That’s why she was able to say, ‘This is just a small war, it’s all relative compared to the big war were going to face,’ Her age makes everything even more meta. Definitely, that’s where all that stuff comes from. She has no idea how she does it. A magic necklace? Wow.
Vulture also reported on Melisandre’s new look, with reactions from Isaac Hempstead-Wright, Liam Cunninham and Hannah Murray, which you can check out here.
Gwendoline Christie spoke to Entertainment Weekly about how it felt to finally rescue Sansa.
After season 5 people would come up on the street moaning about why Brienne wasn’t doing more, and I’d say, ‘I’m terribly sorry I’m not really in charge of that!’ It was really exciting to see Brienne burst forth again. I loved seeing Brienne fighting again. There was so much action and it’s quite brutal and it’s very exciting to dedicate myself to that moment to overcome that obstacle and rescue Sansa.
Christie says she found the oath particularly touching, as it mirrors her time with Catelyn and was a gratifying moment to have finally found one of her daughters.
Director Jeremy Podeswa was also fond of the scene, thanks to the mixture of rousing action sequence and character development with a heartfelt tug.
It’s great when you can marry something that has a lot of action with something that’s quite emotional. Theon shows his own agency and protects Sansa, you get to see Brienne throwing down a charging horse with her bare arms, and then there’s [the oath].
For more on this scene, check out Vulture’s new interview with Sophie Turner.
She might only have made a brief appearance this episode, but Maisie Williams has also been doing the interview rounds, with Q&As for Vulture and The New York Times, which naturally focus on her acting blind.
You can’t comprehend being without your eyes, and you have to put your faith and trust in the people around you, who are also the ones who put you in that position. She has no other choice. So that’s a really interesting position to see her in, because she’s never had to trust someone. It’s a very vulnerable place for her to be at the beginning of the series, but things will turn around.
You can read them in full here.
HBO has released its usual bevy of post-episode videos. In “Inside the Episode,” David Benioff and D.B. Weiss discuss the machinations behind Jon’s death, how Tyrion is rising to the challenge of governing Mereen, Cersei’s downward spiral and Melisandre’s true appearance.
Emilia Clarke and Joe Naufahu discuss Daenerys’ arrival amongst Khal Moro’s tribe and what happens to the wives of khals when they die.
Finally, Michiel Huisman and Iain Glen discuss their search for Daenerys and the complex relationship between the two men who are both vying for her affections.
Hodor!!!
Hodor
Cersei is going to break.
I cant wait to watch this episode again.
For a premiere, I would give it a 10/10!
Deesensfan,
I couldn’t hold myself and watched the leeks….so Mels reveal wasn’t that suprising to me.
In my opinion it felt a bit to face paced, and the run time was low, not even 50 min without the opening and credits.
And of course a bit disapointed that Jon isn’t back…..yet….
All in all though I would give it a 8,5 or even a 9, just because Dorne really suprised me.
Mihnea,
I agree it was fast, but I don’t think that would bring down the rating for me.
And yes, I would have loved Jon back in episode 1, but to be honest, waiting a little will be more satisfying, so I was okay that it didn’t happen in this episode. But it better happen.
Yes, I agree, Dorne was surprising, and very intriguing.
Ah, so the leaks showed what happened. That’s crazy. Were you surprised when you saw the leak?
It can’t be true that Carice only just learned of Melisandre’s true age. The actor who played Maester Cressen, who freely admits he knows nothing about the story, said in an interview years ago that she revealed to him her character was over 400 years old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtvPQsq4cHk&feature=youtu.be&t=50s
Deesensfan,
Fast paced, as in the scenes where quite short.
But this is minor problems.
Hell it says something about the episode, when my biggest complaint is that it’s to short.
Deesensfan,
I was shocked. I was at work.
I opened them and saw naked old Mel!
I closed it really fast….. Didn’t want to explain why I was looking at a naked old granny…..
Mihnea,
Game of thrones episodes are ALWAYSSSSSSSSS too short 🙁 lol
How long is episode 2?
Mihnea,
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! omg that’s funny!
Some of it was crap. But the rest of it was awesome!!! That final scene with Mel was beautiful and an instafave. Gonna read her Dance chapter again today 🙂
The hug between Sansa and Reek. That brief moment of warmth and safety. The look on her face. I loved it. 🙂
On second view the dogs are blood hounds so it can easily be explained away. The Trystane bit best be given some context later on cos if not it’s silly. We watched them watch that ship sail away!!!!
Sigh. There’s some crap. Real crap. But for the first time in a long time I really don’t care!! And won’t be letting it ruin my enjoyment of the rest.
Is it Sunday yet? 😀 I fancy some mutton
Mihnea,
Your boss would prolly be more pissed that u spoiled GoT
This was definately the best premiere of the show for me. Everyone is talking about Dorne and I understand why, but actually what really pissed me off was Brienne’s fight scene. I guess I don’t like the way Podeswa directs them. Too shaky and too lazy. I felt that same way with the fight scene against the stonemen which he also directed. God I hope he will not disappoint me again in next episode’s fight scene at castle black.
The oath scene brought tears to my eyes though.
Deesensfan,
54 min I think.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
The oath was amazing.
Brienne’s smile. She almost had tears in her eyes.
Great acting indeed
And everything that went on, on the wall, just perfect, Davos being a badass, Dolorous Edd finally getting more lines.
And of course that final scene was just the best.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
Davos is really getting more badass.
The reply to Allister about mutton was hilarious.
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Mmm, I am thinking that after Ellaria took her poison medicine in S5EP10, the girls went and changed into their fighting armour, and hoped on a boat following them as fast as they could. I am pretty sure they had this planned all along knowing what happened to Myrcella. Meanwhile, Trystane, while being held on the boat on KL, sent a raven to his Pops? I think that makes sense.
Deesensfan,
Same here!! I really liked that despite the quickened pace we have to expect as we head towards the endgame, we still got incredible character moments like Jaime/Cersei and Sansa/Brienne. I never thought i’d be as excited for the Davos/Mel storylines as I am this season, and I honestly don’t mind how early/late Jon’s fate is revealed – the more we get of Ghost & Dolorous Edd in the meantime the better, imo :). I just hope Arya’s training in Braavos doesn’t drag on too long – I want her back in Westeros, the Stark’s are on the up!!
I loved this episode ………and little tired after having to argue with my friends regarding some scenes. …but it was worth it …and I won the argument so……I’m happy
“I saw him in the flames fighting at winterfell.”
why no one is talking about this line?
Yeah that was hilarious.
But the one that really got me was “Its a sad fucking statement if Dolorous Edd is our only chance” hahaha
shubham,
This!!
Mel saw him fighting at WF! Get hyped people!!
Is it me, or was this the funniest episode of GOT ever? It seems D&D may have been hearing that they should lighten it up a bit, things were getting a little grim perhaps, and so they did. It wasn’t even bad humor, kind of well done.
Although Dorne was the funniest part of the show as usual, and NOT in a good way. They killed Dr. Bashir, and they didn’t even get to use his full potential, what a crying shame. I would have been happy if they had just killed Ellaria and her sand snakes, they show would be the better for their deaths. Damn you D&D for ruining Dorne!!!!!!!! And where the hell is Bronn? All in all, really good season opener, loved the Old Mel reveal, what a great end to the episode. But who exactly is this old woman, just an old woman, or a certain Targaryen bastard daughter or that very bastards daughter. Theories abound, I should go back to the Westeros.org compendium to satiate my tinfoil hat needs.
Deesensfan,
Hopefully the Sand Snakes will be killed of pdq, they are throughly awful, and thier comment about “no weak man” leading dorne, made me groan
When the end credits began flashing my husband yelled “That’s IT?”
A good sign!
lord tony,
They’ll kill them. Just like Doran executed Ellaria…….LOL.
Blanche Holstein,
After reading the hate in previous threads I have become unable to recognize sarcasm..
Are you sarcastic?
alwayswinter,
yes yes and yes!!!
Really enjoyed both the Dany-storyline vids. Love Daario and Jorah in this adaptation and unlike fucking slavers bay the Dothraki at least have a code of conduct and honor, albeit one that glorifies rape and murder… Pumped for more! 🙂
Dany is going to tear shit up in the dosh khaleen. Then, on to mereen and Westeros, just in the nick of time!
shubham,
Because people are too busy complaining about Dorne
Joffrey’s Cunt,
Edd’s actor was impressive here, really hope he continues to play a big role in this season!
I just re-watched the ending and my thoughts now are that Melisandre has not taken off that necklace in a very long time. The look she has is like she’s afraid to see herself as she truly is, and when she does it just makes her want to curl up in bed. And probably the fact her energy is drained without it as well.
The whole thing with the sand snakes makes no sense in so many levels I just wont bother with it. The same way in which Stannis burning his daughter alive makes no sense. Aside from that it was pretty good. I find it frustrating that so little happened this episode was not so much the pieces moving as much as they were pivoting, its definatly about to get way better.
exactly!!
After this episode, the one burning question everyone asks has still not been answered: where is Gendry? I certainly hope he’s not the Drowned God’s best friend by now.
On a more serious note, that was a very good opener both adding new things/directions to the show and capturing a certain tenderness in its more emotional parts. It would have been an outstanding Episode if not for one certain Dornish scene, but there is everything said about that one by now. Now let’s only hope that the Dornish stay away from the show as much as possible…
KnightOfStorm’sEnd,
2 of them are in KL… If anything I would bet we see more of them.
Yay for me, because I like where this is going.
Preview for Episode 2.
I love Brienne and I love Gwen.
Of course nobody is talking about the mess that is Dorne in the clip about the episode lmao.
Podeswa isn’t that great at directing fight scenes as this episode and the one last season showed. It makes me nervous for the fight in Castle Black next week.
Anyone see Maisie’s IG posts where she surprised a viewing party by attending it and bringing a bunch of snacks? That was awesome.
Alexis,
Yes, I remember that interview. I hope “Flicks and the City” do a few more interviews this year. I hadn’t twigged that the necklace kept her looking beautiful and young – I thought perhaps she had some magic property which did so (well I suppose the necklace would be magic of a sort.
I’d give the episode a thumbs up rather than a thumbs down (with the exception of Dorne).
I’m going to be a mess until Jon comes back, but everything at Castle Black–Edd, Davos, Ghost–even Alliser–was perfection (if too short), and Sansa and Brienne callback to Cat vow made me teary. Everything else just made me grumpy and impatient to get back to those two story lines tbh. 🙂 And Melisandre’s age wasn’t a surprise to me, but the reveal at that moment was unexpected. Can’t wait to see what happens to snap her out of her depression 😉
Sand Snails,
Ramsey attacking CB!!
Tommen and Cersei fight!!
I’m freaking hyped!!
Good to have GOT back in my life.
Me too!
That’s a good observation.
Mihnea,
No, that was a genuine heartfelt moment and comment. 😀
Same. I thought Dorne was brilliant. Can’t wait to see where they go from here.
Blanche Holstein,
Sorry. I’m being a bit more cynical…with all the doom and gloom in the last thread.
Mihnea,
SO HYPEDDDDDDDDDDDDD
I really liked the fast-paced nature of the episode. No time to waste in endless chatter, always to the point. And the transitions between storylines was beautiful – it helped the viewer keep up with the complex storyline, setting up the next scenes.
Since the episode was on the short side, the only thing I might have done is to swap Arya’s 2 minutes for about 7-8 minutes spent with Bran and Bloodraven and Co. But then again, perhaps the transition would not have worked.
All the complaints about how Nym and Obara could be on Trystane’s boat remind me of the endless complaints about Daenerys dropping her ring in Ep. 10 of S5. Yes, the clear central patch was visible from a long distance away. 😀 Yes, the two Sand Snakes could have hopped on another boat immediately after Trystane’s sailed. It’s all quite funny (not in a good way).
Deesensfan,
Also Bran is back!!
after 2 years we finally see him again! Can’t wait to see what he learned.
So in season 4, there is a scene where Selyse walks in on Mel on the bath and she is not wearing the necklace. Is it an error or does Selyse actually see Mel’s true form? Selyse reacts very strangely to Mel in that scene , but it’s easy to dismiss on its own because Selyse is already such a weirdo.
Regarding the coup in Dorne, my guess is that
then the
, or at this point who knows, maybe D & D are jsut cutting their Dorne losses- Dorne will slip into Civil War and cease being any factor whatsoever in the overall plot.
WOW. That Melisandre scene is just so heartbreaking, which surprised me.
Mihnea,
Got it!
Did anyone else giggle just a bit at the sentimental Ramsay grieving over Myranda, then in an instant reverting to character by ordering her “fresh meat” be fed to the dogs? Classic.
jpf,
I like the first part of your speculation.
Hate the 2nd. If they brush Dorne away, I will criticize them to no end.
They made their decision, you can agree or not with it, but see it to the end.
Just like the Star Wars prequels Lucas did to the story what he wanted, some hated it, some liked, I liked quite a bit.
But he didn’t just brush aside because some didn’t like it and that I can respect.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
I think it’s the latter – Selyse sees Mel’s true form. If you rewatch the scene with that in mind, it actually makes a lot of sense. First time around, we assume that Selyse is just bashful and that’s why she finds it hard to look at Mel in the tub. But maybe it’s because she struggles with what her faith is telling her vs. what her eyes are telling her. Mel says something along the lines of “tricks are not needed with someone who has faith”. Anyway, I prefer this interpretation, rather than it being a poor error.
Deesensfan,
Yeah part of me wishes that people moved on to discuss other parts of the epsiode, rather than repeating the same mantra that Dorne sucked. It’s the same with all episodes though, with one or two aspects (both positive and negative), but I wished tyhe conversation would move on sometimes.
I think this episode should have been named “back to square one” than Red Woman… Danny’s back with Dothraki, Jamie’s back being Cercie’s henchman (I will burn the kill them all for you – season 1)…. Arya’s back to learning the water dance (only she’s blind this time round)… Only good parts were that of Sansa and Reek turning back to Theon (slowly)…. And of course Ramsay’s panicked face when Roosevelt threatens him with Walda’s presumable son… questions though; if Melisandre is centuries old, why hasn’t she showed some wiseness or talked of some lore till date?? And how in the hell has Areo Hotah remained to be a body gaurd if anyone can do stab him from behind (as talented as the sand snakes are, they are still kids compared to Hotah)?? And how did Doran rule Dorne if he was so stupid?? ( Hr couldn’t see that coming by Ellaria who seems to shout and screem at the slightest thing)???
I thought they would atleast introduce the new red priestess in Mereen, but apparently the big WTF was Milesandre becoming a hag…
Big disappointment for all that hype…
Blanche Holstein,
Yeah, that was great.
One moment he is sweet and you can actually feel sorry for him….then he reminds you what a psycho he is..
Fancy word for a sellsword,
My guess is that when her faith is strong, her true self doesn’t show.
or if you watch the scene, she was putting some potions in her bath.
Secret Targaryen,
Womp.
So negative dude.
So, Tyrion released the dragons next episode? And it looks like a fight is going to happen at Castle Black, we will get to see Wun Wun next episode crashing through the gates!
I am seriously really pumped for Bran though, and Max von Sydow.
Mihnea,
Well, that could pretty much go in the opposite direction of not seeing them in a long time as well. It was already a stretch that two Sandsnakes (who were most certainly standing on the shore when the ship left) were suddenly on it in this episode. They could have and most certainly have taken a smaller and faster ship to reach KL in time to murder folk (OFFSCREEN), yet still that doesn´t mean they will stay there, they could just as well leave as quietly as they came on said ship. Furthermore, they may have reached KL-harbour, yet that doesn´t mean the city was ever their goal nor that they have any plan of entering it.
I see only two options: either they stay as assassins of some sort and wreak havoc or they leave again immediately. Since I felt that Dorne was a train wreck (and the majority sadly seems so, too), I hope for them to leave for Dorne and stay there for a very, very, very long time, except their script and performances got significantly better in other scenes they shot for the rest of S6. Nonetheless, I think it´s great that you actually enjoyed Dorne since for me it feels almost impossible to find positive aspects in the whole story-arc.
looks like Doran and Areo got some of that bad pussy.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
Yep, when people brought up the bathtub scene I remembered that Selyse’s had looked Mel up and down a little strangely after she got out of the tub. At the time I thought she was feeling a pang of jealousy, because if I recall correctly that scene was right after Mel had slept with Stannis. Now I think perhaps she was seeing her as she really is and just taking it in.
anyone catch the look on davos face after they moved jon’s body? He was looking at the blood stained snow and gave a bit of a confused look… not sure if there was not enough blood, or if maybe it was in the shape of something?? i have to go back and watch again…
Dorne was bad, but also i thought the jamie dialoge with cersei , as well as some of the dothraki banter was cringe-worthy as well…
Mihnea,
Deesensfan,
I don’t know guys (well, guy and gal), I think I would give it less than that for expediting House Martell in such a hurry. And for the kitsch involved whenever the Sand Snakes appear.
The rest of the episode was great though. Including the Dothraki parts, which I less than half understood (was watching them with Russian subtitles!).
By the way, my new fav is definitely Davos. I say give him the iron throne!
Can I just say…WELCOME BACK GOT! It’s so good to have you back 🙂
Dragons and Wun Wun and Bran? Oh my!
If, as the trailer suggests, Tyrion is releasing the dragons as early as Episode 2, that suggests we really are going to be plunging headlong into a quick pace for the rest of this series. After the slow pace of Meereen in Episode 1, I had a bad feeling it was going to be another long drawn out snoozefest with not much happening, but dragons on the loose will make it more exciting. Also, based on the timeline, we are certain to have the big Wun Wun vs Olly fight which can only end in one way. (I mean, we know from the preview pics that this all ends with the Wildlings in control of Castle Black and Davos still alive, so the worst that can happen will be if someone like Edd and the other loyal NW get killed in the fight…..or no, the worst would be if Ghost is killed, but we know for sure that Davos, Tormund, Wun Wun and Mrs Gollum will survive beyond this little battle, so Episode 2 is probably bye bye to Olly, Thorne and the other rats.
Sou,
Lol!
I thought that was okay, to be honest 🙂
KnightOfStorm´sEnd,
Wow….
What are you?
Someone who doesn’t yell and throw insult just because a person might like something you didn’t..
Respect sir, respect.
Blanche Holstein,
Can’t say I laughed… but I guess Ramsay gets his psycho no 1 award hands down.
Secret Targaryen,
Roosevelt?
I think I love you!
My two cents on Dorne:
This could then lead to a schism with Ellaria and Sand Snakes, who, like many readers, probably will think Aegon is a fake and that Danny + dragons is still the better option for Westeros. In the books Doran had temporarily imprisoned Sand Snakes, and his maester is paranoid about Sand Snakes trying to poison Doran. So there’s enough bad blood that similar coup could happen after news of Quentyn’s fate reaches Dorne. In the tv show there is no Quentyn, no (f)Aegon, no Arianne,…, so they can just have the schism/coup happen much earlier. That all being said, it certainly wasn’t GOT’s best work by a long shot.
Connor,
LOL!
thronedorne,
Same here. I didn’t care for the dialogue between Cercei & Jamie. It felt stilted somehow, and didn’t ring true. Lena is usually on point at all times, but she didn’t seem to be in character here, and of course that could have been direction. Odd that Jamie, as a grieving father, had nothing much to say about Myrcella except for “I know” to Cersei reminiscing. Again, it ends up about them being the only ones that matter.
I might be the only person who’s ambivalent about the Ides of Dorne. No strong feelings, but it makes more sense the more I think about it, mainly cause it makes no sense. The idea that alleged schemer is undone by revenge chaos is on par with the greatest warriors being felled by infected cuts.
In a universe where the hero routinely dies and the resolutions we expect based on what we’ve come to expect rarely come to pass, how odd is it really for long-game Doran & great warrior Hotah to get surprise-whacked? Though that certainly would’ve been better had Doran been actually established as some kinda player.
Bob Warren,
I fear for Ghost. Nobody report anything on him beyond first coupple of episodes and certainly nothing in terms of battle.
I was always doubtful, “How can Melissandre bring back Jon? She is so normal, She hasn’t shown any extraordinary power yet!” But now my confidence become double, that she CAN do something, a 100 years old red priest definitely has to have some power, most probably the best of the powers!
In retrospective, I’m now wondering if the producers should’ve not switched around the Iron Islands and Dorne storylines (II in S5, Dorne in S6).
If they had done II in S5, we could’ve gotten a follow-up to Yara’s failed rescue mission (and her subsequent loss of status in the eyes of the IIers), the death of Balon Greyjoy and the appearance of Euron Greyjoy, maybe the Kingsmoot (sans Theon), and some sort of sack to show how terrible Euron is.
Doing II in S5 also would’ve brought the third blood leech into play, and would’ve made Stannis’ sacrifice of Shireen based on Mel’s visions more meaningful, as Stannis would have direct proof that Mel’s magic worked (3 leeches, 3 deaths) instead of only being 2/3 effective.
In the meantime, by putting Dorne aside for a season, we give Ellaria’s rage more time to burn so it makes more sense when we finally reconnect with her.
Of course, that would’ve meant they would’ve needed to kill off Tommen in S5 as a payoff for the “golden crown / golden shroud” prophecy. But maybe that’d increase Cersei’s urgency for sending Jamie to Dorne to rescue her lone remaining child in S6.
Unfortunately, this does bring up some problems. What do we do with Jamie for a season? Go ahead and send him to Riverrun to deal with the siege (or hold off on that until S7, but that’d be WAY into the endgame)? Then that’d throw off the timing of other stories (namely Brienne’s and Arya’s stories). I guess we could keep Brienne’s roaming adventures, but the Hound/Arya stories in S3 took care of most of those beats. And who would rescue Sansa in the North?
Still, I’m sure the writers could’ve figure out something.
Z,
I vote for the Bastard’s daughter.
Flayed Potatoes,
Hee you noticed too?
I liked this first episode for the most part. It picked up the pieces from last year and brought us up to speed. Loved Davos and co, Cersie and Jamie, Sansa and Brienne (really loved Sansa’s face when Theon is holding her. Looks like it says ‘I am safe I am home” Ramsey’s very brief period of mourning before throwing her to the dogs literally. Dany;s story I pretty much expected but she was good. And of course the ending….. Its really too bad that this episode is going to be remembered for the mess of Dorne
I read the books but I am not even talking about those Dorne scenes; I assumed I wouldn’t be seeing them here. But too many questions here – how on earch did the two snakes get to the ship (unless of course they were stealthly following it in another ship or that more time had actually passed while Trystan waited to set foot on Kingns Landing. But really, no one was guarding the heir to the throne? And to kill Doran so fast it all seemed such a waste of a story line.
The one saving grace – perhaps the Lannisters will be so busy at wa with Dorne that they will be unable to fight Dany on her way to rule, or to fight the North as they retake Winterfelll? Mmmmmmm
Shiera Seastar = Melisandre,
Other than not dying when drinking poison and making Shadow Babies, you mean? I will grant you that the blood leeches might’ve been coincidence and not a reflection of Mel’s powers, but she’s always had power right from the beginning.
I really liked this episode. I thought it made sense to go from one point on the map to the next in order to catch up on each story line. I’m in a place of acceptance on Dorne, as I suspect the Sand Snakes have some role to play going forward (the fan in my head has them in league with Varys). Also, am I the only one that cheered “It’s Brienne!!”
All in all I thought it was a good premiere.
The North Remembers!
Well, we still have the Iron Islands this season, hopefully it’s really good, Im looking forward to seeing it, and Euron of course.
I never cared for Dorne or any of the Martells after season 4, so i dont care about it this season.
So much more to come! Tyrion is more than likely freeing the dragons next episode, I hope, then we could probably get his line, “I drink, and I know things”!
Yeah I enjoyed the episode with my “show-watcher hat on”
I’ve learned to roll with it and not get too immersive as one can with the ASOIF books
Naturally Dorne really surprised me. Will wait and see where this is going. Either we are getting a “more likely bastards rise to power” theme perhaps or more hopefully Lord Yronwood comes to power,
The Book reader in me tears the hair out at the logic or lack thereof but I did get an “oh crap Doran and Areo got killed) so there was certainly s surprising reaction so I guess I’ve got that to look forward to in the sense I don’t know what will happen
Good to see Mel age revealed, what is highly important is the very fact she actually went to bed at all as in the books she mentioned never requiring sustenance or sleep so says something about her being low in her energy/faith. I recall reading in a pre-season interview she even starts wearing a Warm Cloak as she feels cold etc
Henry Gordon,
When in the show do they demonstrate that Aero Hotah is such a great warrior? I am having a mind block.
That final scene was a knockout. Great performance from Carice there. Solid episode as a premiere goes but it did feel slightly erratic in its composition. I already want the soundtrack for this season: the music when Sansa and Theon were running was brilliant.
My full thoughts
Deesensfan,
I got that from “when you were whole, it would have been a good fight.” Puts him in the same class as 2-handed Jaime for me.
When do they release episode 2 promo pictures?
It used to be on wednesday right?
Henry Gordon,
Ah okay…
I like your explanation.
Its easy to kill an unsuspecting someone from behind
Mihnea,
Davos’s reply about mutton was funny but also smart. That was how he gauged Thorne’s intentions. Thorne was so quick to offer food the Night’s Watch desperately need for the winter that it became clear to Davos he was just bullshitting. Thorne didn’t plan to let them live anyway so he would yes to such demands, no problemo.
I honestly think Jon’s gone, and Mel goes to Winterfell in glamour as him. This is my new theory going forward. (I hope I’m wrong, but it would fit now…)
This was overall a standout episode; the Mel reveal was great and I’m assuming this is a huge hint to show us her regenerative /rejuvenation powers (that may very well come into play soon enough).
Loved the Sansa scenes, asides from my issue of the snow-free Winterfell.
But, I really struggled with Lena’s portrayal of a grieving Mother. Now I don’t have kids but I can only imagine how hysterical any mother in that situation would be. I had the same issue at the purple wedding. Lena played it way too composed for my liking and it surprised me, as she’s usually a great actress.
As for the Dorne scenes… I’m kinda glad Doran and Areo have been offed- they were wooden as hell on the show (fact), I just wish the SS would meet the many faced God as well. It really makes no sense for me either- surely Dorne will rise up if their Prince (and his heir) have both been killed by treachery? And the SS would presumably be killed on sight on Trystanes ship, or in KL for that matter (if that’s where they’re still docked). Maybe we’ll learn in the more next episode.
Yeah I enjoy the ASOIF books for exploring power in all its forms and angles and how it relates to the governed society in question. Which of course includes the gender perspective as explored via Arianne etc. Of course women can be as incompetent or competent as the next type/style of ruler can also be competent/incompetent
That said, the way they have super-charged Briennes character while butchering both Ser Barristan and Areo Hotah characters while not doing them justice is dissapointing
And especially Doran Martell who is one of the epic thinkers/plotters of the show, a rival to Tywin Lannister. Thematically, having him as a competent male leader with a sadistic shadow in Ellaria would have worked as a kind of inverse mirror to Lady-like Sansa being played off the sadistic Ramsay
Instead we are left with Bad, butcher like men in charge in the form of Khals with no noble men to offset them in the form of Ser Barristan or Doran, this of course all starts to make the show smell of over-pandering to the Hollywood feminist and Political Correctness set and it undermines the story and character development and
That aside, the “one of the five best things” dialogue between Khal Moro and his bloodriders/wives was quite hilarious for mine.
Ser Davos was a total boss
I do think Ser Alliser was being sincere though, he still has a sense of honour, to the Night’s Watch institution if not quite office of LC but also to the office of Westerosi Knighthood and he would cause himself a lot of trouble if he killed Ser Davos and Mel but especially the NW men as this would undermine his tenuous hold over the uncertain brothers
One slight thing of the “Why does Mace Tyrell have no Tyrell Household Guard with him in Bravoos but has Lannister men instead” mould, is why doesen’t Davos have at least some Stannis men he would have come up with “take some men with you” etc to help him out
I wonder if those Hired Swords who deserted and should still be in the region will come into play during the season
The never, ever did. He was basically a book-end in every scene he appeared. The fight scene in S5 was laugh out loud hilarious. What kinda bodyguard is gonna be stabbed in the back by a tiny little girl that’s just been imprisoned for treason? SMH.
Ya know my reaction was “well, actually she probably would have wanted that”. She was (almost) as fucked up as he was, and she did “love” those dogs of hers!
Deesensfan,
You know I so agree with you. A couple of not enjoyed hiccups but nothing to make me rate it less than the enjoyment it gave me…definitely a 10!!
Bring on Ep. 02, but I don’t think I’ll sit up again. Took me two hours to go to sleep last night so it was after midnight and the alarm went off at 3:30 a.m. ugh…I feel dreadful today, but luckily I’ll be off work shortly.
Mihnea,
High Sparrow seemed to hint he had been talking to Tommen.
Could he have told Tommen that it was Cersei who armed them which directly led to Margery’s arrest?
Apollo,
Everyone grieves in different ways. Remember Arya’s reponse to her aunts death? Some people freak out, some remain incredibly stoic until they reach a breaking point, and there’s everything else in between. Grieving also doesn’t really end over time, it just changes, and again thats different for everyone. So I think Lena portrayed a woman who was in control of everything including her emotions, and was trying to hold it together. Thought her acting was outstanding here
Ghosts Afternoon Tea,
“And especially Doran Martell who is one of the epic thinkers/plotters of the show, a rival to Tywin Lannister”
In the TV Show only – I don’t see how they demonstrated what you said ?
Apollo,
Well, that’s what I am saying… Some comments are alluding to “How in the hell did the greatest warrior alive just die like that” — my response is, where in the show, are told he is the greatest warrior alive? FINE – he is a strong big body guard and Tyene is a small girl with a small knife. But its not hard to kill someone from behind when they are not expecting it.
Gendry’s broken compass,
I’ve speculated that Tommen will finally grow some balls and get his wife back himself.
Him making a deal with the HS doesn’t seem unlikely.
Elizabeth,
Yes!!!
There were of course things I did like, but honestly, I came away from this episode kind of meh. I was a bit disappointed if I’m going to be honest about it.
Lol Linda is still watching the show and of course ranting about Dorne. Get out the popcorn…
Conan Troutman,
Didn’t she say she won’t watch it anymore?
shubham,
Cause he is still dead. If he was resurrected then it will get talked about more. But until then the talk will be on Mel and possibility of resurrection.
Conan Troutman,
ooo link? I want a good laugh…
Heck, it isn’t demonstrated in the books either, IMO…
Book talk:
D&D are basically trolls for casting Siddig as Doran! They really wanted book!fans to think he would be plot vital then… LOLNO!
Some folk are never satisfied! … Imagine waiting ten months just to rip the show to pieces .. get a life FFS!
Funniest comment I’ve seen so far is about the show not being *realistic* enough – it’s not you, is it Snoop Dogg??? (give me strength …..)
It premiered in the UK at 2 am .. I stayed up to watch it and it was well worth the wait! I fully intend to watch it again at 9.00pm tonight! (can’t wait!)
Conan Troutman,
I really can’t be bothered with trolls like her this year. You hate the show, fine, then stop fucking watching.
No need to really comment on Dorne. I don’t take anything that happens there seriously, and my expectations were so very low for that storyline that the scenes didn’t effect me one way or another.
Everything in the North was once again my favorite part of the episode. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the Sansa/Theon/Brienne/Pod scene. It stood out as the best in the episode for me.
The stuff at the Wall was good, but felt lacking. This is mostly due to my own expectations. I didn’t expect Jon to come back in this episode, but I assumed that the big fight would happen between the loyalists and the mutineers. I hope they don’t drag this out past the next episode, and I doubt they will.
I was spoiled on the final Melisandre scene, but it wasn’t something I didn’t already know/suspect. It’s been mentioned before that she was over 100 years old, and once the whole glamouring Mance in the books thing happened, I pretty much knew her ruby was what disguised her true appearance. I wonder if this means we are going to see her glamouring someone else this season? Or was it just to show how her faith is failing? I’m guessing we’ll find out soon.
Dany and Khal Moro(was that his name?) was more interesting than the two Bloodriders speculating about whether her carpet matched her drapes, only in cruder terms.
I still don’t like that Jaime is still head over heels for Cersei, but at least it looks like some of the old Jaime will return this season. I just wish the character who was the saving grace of AFFC retained his character arc. I have a feeling I know what they are going for with keeping Jaime devoted to Cersei, and it involves the part of Maggy’s prophecy that was left out of the show.
Overall, this was a standard opener. I’d rank it fairly even with the season 2 and 3 premiers. ‘Two Swords’ is still by far the best premier episode, followed by ‘Winter Is Coming’. ‘The Wars To Come’ is at the bottom. IMO. I can’t wait for Bran/Bloodraven and the introduction of Euron,
Cersi's Mercy,
but dragons are real!!
Some parts were very touching, I thought … Jon’s friends (and Ghost) … Sansa and Theon .. Brienne and Sansa .. even Cersei and Jamie.
However, I didn’t believe a word of Ramsey Snow’s pseudo sentimentality! I hope it is Theon and Sansa themselves, who eventually have the pleasure of killing him!
Deesensfan
ha-ha .. I’d like to know where I can purchase a necklace just like Melisandre’s? .. I’d save a fortune in Oil of Olay 🙂
So like Khal Drogo…
Jack Bauer 24,
We did see him fight in the show at least…
Cersi’s Mercy,
I would love one!
Do you think we’ll see Euron in the next episode? I guess we’ll know if we see Pyke in the intro.
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes. I was referencing Khal Drogo and book
I thought it was kind of meh but I certainly didn’t hate the episode at all. I’m very surprised though about the reactions I’ve been seeing. This looks like one of the few places that liked the episode. It is not universal panning, but even in some places that are friendly to the adaptation and show, they did not have a good reaction. This surprises me. I thought there were very good things about the episode and it moved the plot along in almost every story. I’m thinking maybe after 10 months of waiting people were expecting a definitive answer to the Jon Snow question. But, that’s what you get for expecting. There was never any requirement they deal with that in episode 1. So, I think maybe that’s why there seems to be so much dislike for this episode? I don’t know. I am surprised at it though.
Apparently she’s translating for the show (why D&D or anyone involved with the show still would want to work with her is beyond me, but whatever), so might as well watch it. Elio sits out, though.
On their YT channel (is it Elio’s? I don’t know/care), should be easy to find.
Jack Bauer 24,
Yara and Balon are in the next episode. I’m not sure if Euron will appear or not, but I do expect him to at least be mentioned. I think he’ll appear in either this episode or the next.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Euron will definetly be in the next episode if they do the bridge scene.
Conan Troutman,
They hate it.
But they sure don’t hate the money they make from it…..
orange,
I haven’t really looked elsewhere for the reaction. 6 seasons in, and I can pretty much guess the reaction from various parts of the fandom. I don’t even read many reviews anymore. After viewing the episode I expected a mixed reaction, with many probably feeling like not much happened, particularly with regards to Jon Snow. And I knew there would be widespread mocking of Dorne, and outrage at the way Doran was handled. I was late to the party last night, so I didn’t bother reading all 1,000+ posts in the recap threads. So I can’t say for certain how well fans on this site rated the episode.
Theon and Sansa’s escape and the oath were my favorite scenes from the whole thing. The hug under the tree stump roots was so touching. I have to watch it all again but my initial thought was they’re starting slow but I’m sure it will pick up. I was shocked at how quickly the Dorne boys were killed off. Personally I wish the roles had been reversed and the Sand Snakes received the sharp end of the axe… I felt pity for Doran and I think I could have actually liked depressed, vengeful, mourning Trystane. Oh well. The Mel scene surprisingly shocked me a little. Guess I wasn’t expecting to see so much! lol I kinda chuckled when she ended the scene with “Fuck this, I’m going to bed.” Can’t wait for episode 2!!
Episode 4 is 59 minutes! I didn’t know this before.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
The same people who hate the adaption hated the parts that are diferent from the books and the same people who don’t believe D&D can do any wrong loved it (and if they’ve read the books, they loved the changes). I think that more less sums up the majority of the multitude of posts. There are always exceptions but that’s what I got from skimming through them.
Although true- everyone expresses grief differently, Arya had never even met her aunt, and her emotional response was a mixture of weariness and frustration combined with amusement at the fact The Hound wouldn’t get what he was after- her ransom. But a Mother losing her daughter and all we get are a few tears on the waterside? Come on.
I am so pumped for Euron and that stormy bridge scene. Easily one of my most anticipated scenes of the season.
It’s very easy to kill someone if they are beyond stupid, which is exactly how I’d describe a bodyguard of the prince of Dorne, who stood with his back to a known assassin and rebel. 😉
You just posted my exact feelings!!
Yeah, they added some time to the “previous on” segment and a few names to the opening credits. I am stoked.
Word of Balon’s fate from Pyke?
One of mine aswell! Is that confirmed to be in episode 2?
Apollo,
Haha. Stupidity seems to run in the Dornish…
Apollo,
Yeah, but it was a peaceful moment, very unexpected, and as someone mentioned in another thread, like the Red Wedding, where people were relax and happy, and it happened unexpectedly, with no time to react.
Mihnea,
Oh, thank you very much for the compliment.
For all those talking about plot holes and lack of explanation for Dorne – think of this:
1) There’s no legitimate reason for Davos and co to be holding dead Jon’s body, no matter what. Like the NW loyal to Jon in that room were at Hardhome! They know about wights! And it’s not like they took a still breathing Jon into a room to try and protect and save him. He’s dead. They’re just sitting there with a dead Jon….for what? They only thought of the Wildlings later. I mean literally the only reason for them to keep vigil over a body is because it’s plot line driven – we know they need to keep this going till Jon gets resurrected.
But NONE OF THAT MATTERS because we love the Northern storyline. We love the tension, the plots, and the bottom line is that the acting is superb, from Davos and Edd to freaking Ghost. It FEELS consequential.
Contrast that to Dorne – it COULD make some sense. They idea that there is still this kingdom stuck on revenge on the Lannisters, the snake in the grass. But it’s just done so crappily that it makes no sense to anyone.
All the stupid extraneous plots that made Dorne annoying in the books all made sense when you get Doran’s Fire and Blood speech. And instead, they kill him and double down on the Sand Snakes, who everyone hated. I don’t mind Ellaria taking on the plotting revenge that Doran had in the books. I do mind that the agents of that revenge (Sand Snakes) are so beyond lame.
So, to what end will Dorne feature? If we see Olenna in Dorne negotiating a secret alliance with Ellaria, I would love to see that. But it also doesn’t make sense that in the show their most natural ally from the books – Dany – has not figured or been mentioned in their storyline at all. But again, many would be along for that ride if the acting/writing didn’t suck for Dorne.
Btw loved what this Time review said:
http://time.com/4306039/review-game-of-thrones-season-premiere/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter
Yes!!!! Fight in episode two bodes well for an exciting season! Yay dragons! Tho I wonder how Tyrion will pull that off.
Also can’t wait for Mel to get her mojo back. Maybe JS will keep until Sansa makes it to Castle Black. I’m pretty certain the NW is getting wiped out next Sunday. Which is not necessarily a good thing with the WW on the way. Also, I’m starting to believe that Tormunds comment about the one to lead them through the long night is about Jon, since Edd is going to get him. Maybe episode 3?
Where’s Bronn???
HI all, been lurking for a long time in the site, and wanted to post my first comment regarding this whole controversy about Dorne, and more specifically, Doran’s character. Will try to use the spoiler thing, but if i don’t do it right, i apologise, and wouldn’t mind if my post was changed.
While i agree that there’s something that seems to be a little off with the Dorne scenes (they just seem very separated from the rest of the show), i wonder if the claim that Doran’s character has been destroyed in the show is not based on focusing too much on an (admittedly pretty good) speech he gives in the book, and not looking at his character in both the show and the books as a whole.
I will gladly be corrected if i’m missing something in one medium or the other, but here’s the way i saw Doran in the show: he was a man of peace, who in spite of the unfair tragedy that had fallen in (some) members of his family (Oberyn after all got what he was looking for, he was just too cocky, much as we all loved him), wanted to keep the people he was in charge of ruling safe and in peace, even if those people, living in a world where vengeance is so important, didn’t want that peace themselves. No hidden intentions, no tricks. Just understanding that what had happened to his family was no reason to cause the death of thousands of Dornish people, and maybe trying to get some political power from the aftermath, getting his son and heir in the small council. The thing is, he was surrounded by hotheads, and in the end, the nature of the world he lived in killed him (with his own guards not moving a finger to protect him)
So in all, comparing those 2 scenarios, i’m not so sure Doran got so short-handed in the TV show.
Cersi’s Mercy,
With Gendry.
I don’t think it’s confirmed. I didn’t see any Greyjoys in the preview for episode 2.
Deesensfan,
I get what you’re saying! Totally. But this is a multi million dollar production with ‘award winning’ writers. Some ppl might be able to make assumptions on their behalf. But I cannot.
It was a 50 minute episode. I don’t see the harm in tagging on a 30 second scene of them stealthily approaching the boat then boarding. It’s minor, I know, but that is kinda the point. They either didn’t notice or didn’t care. Either way it bothers me.
But EFF THAT!! I’m determined to enjoy this season cos last night was entertaining and exciting. I need to wait until the season is done and all scenes have been seen in context, before aiming my negativity cannons at D&D 😛
The Dornishwoman’s husband,
Welcome! I was a lurker before but now I’m quite a regular!
I enjoyed your thought and find myself agreeing on most parts.
Doran’s speech the most.
Yeah it was a cool speech but, in my opinion, it got overshadowed by just how much chance Doran’s plan was build on. Not to mention him giving Quentyn, like 4 guys.
Wondering the same thing. Did Jerome film this off season?
There’s a very good chance they wanted to keep that as a surprise and we’ll hear about their trip the next time we see them.
Jack Bauer 24,
It doesn’t make sense for his presence to be introduced just yet – Jaime and Cersei is so serious and mournful. I’m sure he’ll pop up.
Nadia,
They’re not just simply holding his body.
Although ensuring that he undergoes the proper funeral rites and preserving his body as evidence of the treachery would have initially been a priority for his friends and allies; once Thorne installs himself as de facto commander of the Night’s Watch they are pretty much hiding out to avoid being killed or thrown in the cells themselves.
That’s what was clearly established at the end of the show, where Thorne has crossbows trained on the door and Ser Davos and the other loyalists recognise that they’d basically be surrendering to their deaths.
So it stopped being about protecting Jon’s body and more about protecting themselves the moment the mutineers claimed control over Castle Black.
Jack Bauer 24,
There was literally no reason to have him in any of the scenes in the episode.
Jon was the most-tweeted about character during the premiere. D+D better bring him back soon, on that high point, instead of dragging it out and risking losing interest/momentum.
Episode 2 Predictions:
The Wall – Melisandre will be asked to do something to assist Davos and the loyalists. After last week, I have no idea what that could be. But I am sure that Edd, Tormund, and Wun Wun will arrive in the nick of time and end the mutineers once and for all; the deaths of Alliser Thorne, Olly, etc.
Winterfell – Ramsay will suggest attacking Castle Black to get Sansa back, but I think Roose will decide on letting the Crows do his work for him by sending a letter…Meanwhile, Sansa will talk with Brienne and learn of Arya’s survival. She will ask Brienne to escort her to Castle Black, then to head south in search of Arya. Theon, seeing that Sansa is safe and knowing that Jon will likely want to kill him for betraying Robb, will make the decision to go back to the Iron Islands.
King’s Landing – Pretty hazy about what will happen here. Clearly we will see Jaime confront the High Sparrow, but I’m not sure as to what end. Cersei seems to be confronting some Lannister guardsmen, perhaps working on the orders of Kevan. Maybe she’ll get to test drive her new Robert Strong! Maybe we’ll see what the next step is for Obara and Nymeria.
Iron Islands – A ship will steal into Pyke during a raging thunderstorm carrying Euron Greyjoy. Balon Greyjoy will meet his end crossing a rope bridge shortly thereafter. Yara will mourn her father.
The Narrow Sea – I think we’ll get a brief scene to check in on Sam and Gilly.
Braavos – Arya and the Waif have their second round of ‘Wail on the Blind Girl’ to be interrupted by Jaqen to some unknown end.
Meereen – Tyrion and Varys will have a sit down with Missandei and Grey Worm about how to deal with the troubles in the city. I believe we will meet Kinvara this episode, but I don’t think Tyrion will release the dragons just yet.
The Dothraki Sea – Dany will arrive in Vaes Dothrak, and be stripped and prepared to assume her position with the Dosh Khaleen. Jorah and Daario will probably arrive soon thereafter.
The Wall – And we finish at the Wall again in the wake of the massacre. The bodies of the mutineers and others are burned, including Jon. The last shot of the episode is a man rising from the flames…
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Theres also the element of surprise to the viewer. The last I was expecting to see the SS there.
It is REALLYYY minor – in such a big show. But youre obviously entitled to feel that way.
But I am glad to hear that you are still going to enjoy the show and be positive.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Yeah, they went in there with Jons body (hey who knows maybe he was still alive) and then
” okay, hes dead”
“theyre going to kill us also”
“we need the wolf”
and theyre just hiding out waiting for the wildlings so that they can fight.
I HOPE we see this in episode 2.
I will marry you if this happens
IceKhione,
Agreed
Does anyone else think that we will
What intrigues me the most about Dorne is that those women are killing Martells with the purpose of… avenge other Martell’s deaths?
And why Dorne people (the soldiers and common folk I mean) would be against Doran’s pacifist posture? I don’t get why they would be so thirsty for revenge and war.
Also, why were the two SS almost (or way too) joyful about slaying their own cousin, who were almost a kid, and never did any harm to them?Why display such cruelty?
My main problem with this plot is not exactly Elaria’s and SS’s actions, but their motivations. I really don’t get it and to me those women are just dishonoring Oberyn’s memory. Someone with another point of view could enlight me on this?
ps: sorry about my bad english.
Connor,
We will get something like that.
But now I’m more confident that we will get a live ”pink latter” in Sansa herself!
Lady anti-Jonerys,
In my opinion, that’s the way the world we’re watching works. When Ned Stark was killed, the northeners were happy to rally behind Robb. When a house is beloved by those over whom they rule, if a member of the house is unfairly executed, everybody rallies with them. It’s Doran’s way of thinking that separates from what’s common, from my point of view. May be the best for the Dornish people, if they looked at the bigger picture, but in this world, they don’t.
As for Ellaria, i see her as a woman crazy for revenge, and willing to destry everything on her path to kill Lannisters. Not the most complex character, but with so many of them, i guess it’s hard for them all to be.
Deesensfan,
Is funny huh. How we waste this time between episodes bickering over minutia. I figured out a while ago that when I am contented I have no reason to type. But when there is a problem I feel the need to rant. Multiply that by the fandom and yeah it can get depressing post episode. Watching it get pulled apart whilst all the good stuff is forgotten.
Which reminds me… I actually shouted out QUEEN IN THE NORTH last night!!! When Sansa accepted that oath.
Good times man 🙂 the wait for more is already killing me which has to be a good sign
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Yeah… the worst was when I finished the episode, I went on the Open Chat thread to hype with others, and all the comments I had read at that time were whinewhinewhine , and some were posted DURING The episode… what a hype killer. I understand we don’t all have to like the same thing. But you are right. People bicker over nothing, but I am sure are all dying for those 6 days to pass quick.
I said that too. Queen in the north
Lady anti-Jonerys,
Agree completely. This is the last thing Oberyn would have wanted. 🙁 Ellaria was really likable in S4 and is the voice of reason in the books!! I have no idea what’s happening now lol
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere – but did anyone else notice a man’s robe and arm stopping Arya’s stick as she trains with the Waif at the end of the next week clip?
I don’t know why Theon chooses to go, but I don’t think that’s it. He could reasonably expect Sansa to vouch for him, and there’d be no particular reason to think Jon would kill him over her objections.
So the sand snakes have had a rich and blessed life. They have known no hardships other then hearing stories about what Oberyn had to endure.
They are vicious and vengeful and now kinslayers. They’ve killed half as many of their relatives as the Mountain. Do we want to see them anymore? Do we hope they march an army on King’s landing? Do we hope Cersei sends an army out to Dorne?
No, I daresay we want no extra screen time given to any story lines involving that.
rhymeswithweak,
I want more screen-time with them.
And I’m confident we’ll get more.
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Book Ellaria ≠ Show Ellaria.
No Oberyn would not handle it this way. But she doesn’t seem to care anymore. She wants to rule now.
Deesensfan,
I don’t think she wants to rule.
I think she just wants war with the Lannister.
Mihnea,
Oberyn and Ellaria in season 4 were fantastic. What Dorne represents now is not so much…to me anyway.
Do you have a couple of story lines you think might happen? Can you give me some hope? Which revenge are you rooting for? Cersei/Jamie or Ellaria/snakes?
I still don’t agree with Ellaria and the sand snakes revenge need since they should respect the trial by combat Oberyn entered and not feel the need for revenge.
They aren’t honorable though so I guess that doesn’t matter.
Ellaria doesn’t know the mountain isnt dead. Tywin is dead. I guess she wants Tommen dead to hurt Tywin’s lineage more? I assume Jamie knows Ellaria is responsible and wants her dead.
SansaStar,
You are wrong.
rhymeswithweak,
Honor doesn’t matter, what Oberyn would have wanted doesn’t matter.
In most cultures, especially viking ones, I’m a history buff, if someone killed your family you kill theirs, the circumstances don’t really matter. They used to kill all of them, to make sure no one could kill the for vengeance in turn.
If you check the makingofgameofthrones site, you will find that there will be no Jaime revenge.
Rules don’t matter to them now. Oberyn is dead and Doran did nothing, Oberyn volunteering doesn’t mean anything to these girls. They want blood, and they will get it no matter what. Vengeance isn’t rationale, the Sand Snakes and Ellaria don’t care that Oberyn volunteered. They just care that their father/love is dead
Doran was a block in their way, they saw him as a weak ruler who was shaming Oberyn and Elias memory by doing nothing. It’s clear that the people seem to agree with her.
I’m not saying they are right I even dissagree with them, but I completely understand.
What will we see from now on, I don’t know. I didn’t expect this but hell did I love it.
If they end up brushing the story aside, then I will agree with you that it’s bad.
But I just can’t see them doing this after they just put 2 Sand Snakes in KL and made clear that Dorne is on Ellaria’s side, as far as war with the Lannister is concerned.
Mihnea,
But she wants to lead the way.
Just had a re-watch and a couple of things occurred to me.
Trystanes ship is not leaving KL… the sails are up, it’s merely docked in the Blackwater.
Also, he’s painting the stones for Myrcellas eyes so had no intention of leaving anytime soon.
It seems to me that Melisandre has simply lost all her faith in Rhllor, and her visions in the flames. Stannis and Jon are both dead, even though she saw them in the flames. This explains her sombre mood and decision to take off her ruby. Maybe an attempted suicide, as she now has no purpose in life.
Deesensfan,
That is true.
A interesting thought that ocured to me. What if Obara/Nym and up killing Tommen?
He has to die eventually as the prophecy states and this would help Dorne in the case of a war, by creating chaos in the capital.
Deesensfan,
QUEEN OF THE DESERT!! or something. If anything it defo simplifies things n means they can just go attack (hopefully). I wonder how many faces will meet spears before The Sand Snakes get got. If those two are in Kings Landing now I look forward to Jaime finding out. Assuming they don’t just rematerialise back in Dorne 😛
Enjoyed the episode, but I really need to rewatch tonight. I think I (we, us, every-damn-body on this site) was over-hyped to the point of being cross-eyed.
LOVED Brienne / Pod / Sansa / Theon (yes THEON) scene the most. Dorn left me scratching my head, seems I recall from the books that Areo Hoteh was a super badass fighter??
Can only get better, bring it on!
SansaStar,
well that would suck. based on what we saw last night, i too think it might something like this but it would be a waste of character development and complete nonsense to showcase TOJ flashback if he’s gone gone.
I dunno. A forum where everybody loved everything in every episode would not seem to be that desirable to me. I like to see posts from people who agree with my points of view on different things and those that disagree with them.
Apollo,
.
Well all I can tell you is that based on my own experience and based on what I hear as a counselor, I can tell you that this was a perfectly normal reaction. I suspect her grief is going to come out as anger, and thats when the war starts.
Wanderer,
This would be so pointless. Why would Jon’s appearance be so important? If his leadership and fighting skills aren’t there, the glamour Jon would be seen for a fake and be killed eventually. Is Mel a warrior now? Is Dolorous Edd going to be glamoured to looking like Jon? Come on, folks. We’re smarter than that.
The Dornishwoman’s husband,
That’s as good of an analysis as any that I have read. I don’t mind the different treatment. Book Doran and Show Doran may be the same character but with significantly different interpretations of that character … so Doran being killed doesn’t bother me … I just hope that the time spent on this plot will play out in the future
HousePotterz,
No Bran?
where is the show like talking dead they have supposedly started? I can’t find it on schedule.
Decent opener. Nothing really stood out though. Certainly better than last years. Most of the stuff was pretty well done. Was even more tolerant of the usual SuperBrienne stuff as the storyline seems to be progressing and Alfie Allen’s Theon performance makes pretty much anything good. I thought Ramsay was excellent again. A couple of seasons ago the “meat for the dogs” line would have raised a laugh but now it adds to his sadistic personality. Night’s Watch stuff was good and is slowly building the tension.
Mereen is going along ok. Did anyone else think they may have changed their long term plan as it seems strange that those ships were captured and now they’ve been burnt (possible change to include the ironborn as it’s pretty obvious now that Asha/Yara is going to be taking over Victarion’s role).
Jaime and Cersei appear to be getting closer now and not more distant which is mildly frustrating as Jaime really should be breaking free of her by now. The Margery/Sparrow scene was a bit pointless as didn’t really add a great deal other than a reminder she’s still locked up.
The Mel scene was interesting. I think pretty much everyone who’s read the books is now giving greater thought to the “crackpot” theory that Mel is actually Shiera Seastar. The links to Bloodraven could even suggest the two of them are working together against the Whitewalkers.
The Sand Snakes. I think it’s all been said. Not entirely sure the point of introducing Doran and even less Areo (for an apparent badass to go down so easy to one stab wound from a little girl is silly). The killing of Trystane made even less sense. I must say that the Sand Snakes have been the only thing in the whole series that have been consistently awful. Other stories or characters have had ups and downs and good and bad points but the SS have just been thoroughly terrible. It annoys me as not being a big fan of the book versions I was hoping the show would do more with them but they’ve actually made them worse. Here’s hoping the die soon or risk tainting Got’s sublime reputation.
I have an idea as to what Davos sees in the pattern of Jon’s bloodstain, which I will try to format as a spoiler (I have never posted before, so please bear with me), even though it’s really just speculation:
I think the pattern Jon’s blood left on the snow might remind him of an image he saw in one of the stories Shireen shared with him, like maybe “The Dance of Dragons.” If you look at it a certain way it almost looks like two dragons locked together fighting and falling to the ground. http://imgur.com/GFjrwTq
[/ spoiler]
Non-sequitur: “Shiera Sleestak” would be a great screen name for some child of the 70s
Henry Gordon,
Or a member of Jem.
Darkrobin,
I am not a rabid book lover, but I don’t like a lot of what D&D do.
Is there a possibility that Melisandre
Deesensfan,
The pace did feel accelerated to me too.
Connor,
I love that possible connection. George is a sneaky one. Using Dunk & Egg to flesh out a character who is still relevant in present day (Westeros). I need to read em again to coincide with all this Bran stuffs.
I wasn’t really expecting this episode to blow me away, it was pretty much a setup of what’s to come this season while finishing the cliffhangers from Season 5. Which is good, the opening gave me chills. I hated seeing Jons lifeless body on the ground.
TheTouchofFrost,
Except that D&D stated in Inside the Episode thatMel was several centuries old which might make her too old
My only problem is that the audience is left trying to come up with ways it all happened. Why was Trystane left on the main boat? He was supposed to join Jaimie in KL, not sit on the boat indefinitely. The two sandsnakes obviously got there, but the lack of any kind of development leaves the audience trying to justify it, just as Trystanes complete lack of shock that they appeared out of nowhere. That whole exchange would have been much more powerful if we saw the two girls sneaking on board the ship, and then saw Trystane at least act somewhat shocked, and then some tense dialogue for at least 30 seconds before he lets himself just be killed so easily.
It was just hastily done and rushed without good development. If what D&D say is true about 6 and 6 for the last two seasons, then let them! They have done such a good job of creating scenes and sequences that are fully developed, that when a scene like the Trystane one comes around, it just doesnt live up to the rest of the show.
http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/objects-from-dorne
Jaime sent that letter to Doran telling him he had to send Trystane back because it wouldn’t be safe for him in KL.
That makes perfect sense. To my point, Trystanes death was an important scene, that didnt have any kind of development to it. Reading about that plot point from another website is fine, but I wish the show had ellaborated just a little more on how those events developed and then transpired. It doesnt ruin the show as a whole, but it left me very unsatisfied with its execution. D&D are better than that, and theyve done an amazing job for most of the show.
Tyrion and Varys’ stroll through Mereen also felt rushed. There they are in a city in turmoil, sitting ducks for the Harpys to just kill them mercilessly, and they discuss it openly, yet they have no protection. No escort. No nothing. It just seemed fake. One of the few scenes that seemed like while the intentions were good, again the execution was lacking.
Esmail,
Right-shouldn’t have to pause and check out bonus material to understand show.
To me, if all of Dorne hated their Prince, and his entire guard, save one, were brought into the coup plot, then there was zero purpose in letting anyone even leave the dock. They had Tywins son and Cersies daughter – a two for one revenge special. Plus Doran, Hotah, and Trystane. Why go through all this a few days later? Just makes zero sense for a revenge plot and coup.
Not to mention they are family, and Ellaria is a mistress and her children bastard-born, basically. All of the royal guard would betray their Prince for them? And nobody seemed to care about Doran and Oberyns inaction for over 15 years regarding Elia.
Sorry, it’s just a poor arc all around, book canon or not. The plot and acting stand alone as ineffectual to me. It might even have been tolerable if the sand snakes, face making, over acting and horrendous dialogue weren’t so intolerable, perhaps. Yep, just piling on at this point.
Direwolf Lvr,
Yeah-same guards that were hustling to subdue sand snakes are now standing aside & letting Doran be killed a couple days later?
But look at this interview from 2013 of Oliver Ford Davies (Maester Cressent), he dropped the bomb a very long time ago. (The interesting part stars at 45s)
Im sure it took more than a few days to get from Dorne to KL. Probably at least a week or more, but the point is still relevant. Once again, the plot was rushed and lacked development. The audience is forced to connect several missing dots in order for it to make sense, and that isnt what made GoT a great show. The Dorne plot to a degree is a throw away. It didnt get the attention to detail it deserved.
Is WotW doing the Curtain Calls again this season? Three Dornishmen will need one this week alone!
i think many people are always going to hate the dorne plot whatever the producers do, because they are already invested in multiple storylines and it comes late.
if they had spent more time developing the dorne plot and characters many would have still hated it because it would be at the expense of time spent on other characters.
That was helpful, thank you!
Jack Bauer 24,
Also: “neices” instead of “nieces” ? That sounds like Jaime indeed 😉
Fancy word for a sellsword,
I think you can retcon that fairly simply and you touched on it already.
Selyse isn’t weird but just completely religiously fanatical and devoted. She is also completely insane by the way she decorates her living quarters with her stillborn babies in jars.
Given that characterization, I believe if Davos had walked in on that bathtub scene he would’ve seen the same old lady with whom we were so recently introduced. He would’ve said, “Have you seen Lady Melissandre?” Selyse would’ve replied” Yeah she is here in the tub.” Then no level of convincing on Davos’ or anyone’s part could’ve convinced Selyse otherwise.
Melissandre even laid the groundwork in that episodes when she said something to the effect of “I don’t need to use magic tricks on you.” This means that no matter what, Selsye would never be able to see Mel as anything but Carice.
tl:dr Selyse is completely crazy and has drunk the koolaid so she isn’t a sound witness.
Darkrobin,
Well, Shiera would be at least a century old. I hope her backstory is as interesting as the initial reveal.
Mihnea,
Loved the mutton comment. I’m probably the only person who went here, but my mind flashed to Miracle Max and his MLT – mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich. 🙂
RIP Ser Barristan and Areo Hotah. You deserved better.
If the Dosh Khaleen is comprised of dead Khals’ wives, then it is Diva Central. You know what happens when the biggest Diva of all arrives.
And maybe those women don’t like being shut up at Vaes Dothrak. I imagine many are young, because Khals die young. I’m intrigued at how Deny will handle them and if they’ll become allies…or enemies.
I want to know what they had to do with her missing baby. I feel Deny has returned to the Dothraki for something big. It can’t just be for an army…she has an army already.
bluedragon,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40WQJ_GyYeQ
I think that’s what you are ref’in
Gendry rowed the Sand Snakes all the way too KL from Dorne. Thats why the show didnt show how the hell they got there without anyone seeing their boat. If they showed Gendry, then the gig would be up…
Seriously, they could have shown a small boat in the night with hooded figures approaching KL and the other ship, and then the figures sneaking onboard. Trystane could have been asleep, and startled awake by their entrance. He could have shown a little more shock and passion, and then they could have killed him and snuck out.
Instead it was a rushed, undeveloped and bland scene quickly thrown together as if they had 30 minutes to shoot and just said screw it, this is the best we can do…
No, its just so poorly shot compared to the rest of the show, and to an extent you are right in that they havent laid the groundwork for it very well. Oberyn was amazing… but the actual Dorne scenes leave much much to be desired, production wise. Of course part of the problem was that they wanted to tie up every loose end from the finale of season 5 in the first episode, and just didnt have enough time, so the Dorne scenes got the short end of the stick, in particular the Trystane death scene. I just rewatched the episode, and the Trystane scene, followed by the Tyrion/Varys scene, are the two worst, although Tyrion/Varys is still way better than Trystane death. Everything else was really, really good.
Haaa… I was a naughty crow (caw-caw) and flew over to westeros.org to take a look at Linda’s video review on the episode.
I you want some light entertainment with the added vitriol against the showrunners D&D that Lindaaa is well known for doling out, its quite amusing. Not a good word to say about any scene which was off book which of course is pretty much most of it now. Especially the Dorne stuff and mentioning the ‘teleporting’ of Obara and Nym to KL and get onto Trystane’s boat and kill him. 🙂
I have to agree with Linda on that point? Having that scene come directly after Elleria and Tyene had murdered Doran and Areo Hotah was bad timing? Better if they went to another scene away from Dorne and then returned and had done that Tystane assassination scene?
It would be good if GOT could display a ‘time stamp’ as was done with “24” at the start of certain scenes then at least we would have better idea how it all fits together 😉
Linda seemed OK with Arya as the blind beggar and the waif fighting as I presume that part was taken from the book, but not much else. With the rest of it she moaned and groaned that GRRM wouldn’t have done it that way.
No Elio… supposedly he’s refused to watch S6 (which I don’t believe!) so Linda decided she needed to do a book to show analysis and video for the benefit of the book readers. Of course, this is somewhat different now the show has pasted on from the books, but she mentioned about possible stuff taken for AFFC and ADWD which may be included in the TV show.
The bottom being without GRRM’s source material, the ‘dynamic duo’ have found themselves up ‘Shit Creek without a Paddle’ and is comical to watch their videos!
@ Black Raven
You know, by sustaining that the show is perfect and can do no wrong, and by attacking another fandom that doesn’t agree with your vision of things, you are doing the same things you accuse the book purists of doing.
I’m a book reader, and I also enjoy watching the show. But I can take a step back and see when one or the other are subpar on a point or the other.
And some things presented in this episode could have been done better, or with some preparation.
The teleporting SS issue could have been made a nonissue by just having a 2 seconds scene showing two ships side by side before cutting to the cabin.
Trystane could at least try to lounge at one of the SS, or throw the chair at one and attack another. No one would turn his back to a SS, especially someone who knows how crazy they can be.
A juggernaut like Areo Hotar is insta killed with a small knife from behind(he would never allow someone to blindside him like that), but a weak sickly man like Doran is stabbed in the heart, but still has a minute or two to have a chat with Ellaria?!?
The show has established that no bastards or lovers can inherit anywhere, so I guess Ellaria will be the first…president of Dorne because the people like her?!?
Also, the first stage of her plan to avenge the two Martells killed by the Lann is to kill the remaining two and end the line?
Although neither Ellaria or the SS have any power over Doran’s personal guard, they convince all of them to betray him? They might hate the man, but not one guy to spill the beans? It would have been better to do the deed in his private chambers, with no other guards except Areo. A little more believable that way.
And my last little nitpick was with Sansa accepting Brienne’s oath of fealty. Not that it was bad. It was great, but it could have been better.
This was a long awaited moment, when Sansa is starting to make her own decisions, without other people pushing her from behind.
But she accepts the oath only after Theon gives his tacit ok, and then has to parrot the lines feed to her by Podrick. WTF?
In my opinion, it would have been better for her to accept without input from Theon, stumble a little with the lines, then straighten up and finishing the speech without any help.
All the other things were ok.. The episode was a solid 8/10, but it could have been a little better.