“A Lannister and a Martell. They have no idea how dangerous that is.”- Doran Martell
From the HBO Game of Thrones official synopsis, “Arya trains. Jorah and Tyrion run into slavers. Trystane and Myrcella make plans. Jaime and Bronn reach their destination. The Sand Snakes attack.”
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken is written by Bryan Cogman and directed by Jeremy Podeswa, who teamed up on last week’s fabulous Kill the Boy. As the episode name and trailer suggest, we’re going to be seeing a lot more of Dorne and a welcome return for Diana Rigg’s Olenna Tyrell as well!
Check out the official photos here
Geoffery: The Queen of Thornes is back, rejoice! I’m really looking forward to meeting Trystane and Myrcella (again) and hopefully some more action for DeObia Oparei’s Areo Hotah, who didn’t really get much of a look-in The House of Black and White. Can’t wait to catch-up with Arya either!
Hodor!!!
Season should start to pick up pace now, not that I haven’t loved every episode up to this point but I can’t wait for the second half of the season to begin!
That quick obligatory Arya mention by the article editor, hahahaha. She’s really become irrelevant.
land of ooo,
CERSEI. WALDER FREY. THE MOUNTAIN. MERYN TRANT.
That look that LF gives Lancel…..grrrl you in trouble! ;P
Episode 6 should be constructed quite like episode 5 was.
I think it will mostly be another excellent set-up episode (I love those, personally !) before things kick on high and rolling through the end from episode 7 !
And I think Bryan Cogman wrote both ep 5 and 6.
A Man Grown,
D&D don’t even care about her list, least of all the overall character. It’s hilarious.
Seems like it should be a great episode –
Action in Dorne
Olenna back!
Sansa and Ramsay Wedding
And its written by Bryan Cogman!
I don’t remember having Arya haters here in previous seasons. Is it just one guy posting under a bunch of accounts or is it a weird little off-shoot group that suddenly decided they wanted to flood boards with nonsensical diatribes?
Arya is a fan favourite, a Martin favourite and a D&D favourite. She has the 5th most character screentime this season so far and will probably jump up that ranking after this episode.
Weird.
King Tommen,
Fans don’t give a fuck about Arya, Martin is irrelevant, and D&D can’t give a shit because they don’t care to include her anymore. Stop writing fanfiction.
King Tommen,
It amazes me how every female character seems to have a dedicated hate group.
Can’t wait for a new episode. I exepect and hope to be a really Dorne-focused episode. I know Dorne wasn’t that great so far, but I think it was mostly because we’ve seen so little of it (5 minutes of Doran+Sand Snake), and I have faith in Cogman!
The King’s Landing stuff should be interesting, I hope they hurry the pace there.
What I hope to see in this episode:
I’m looking forward and also dreading Sansa’s wedding, I think this will be the most talked about moment of the episode.
When approaching a Troll Bridge…do not pass.
KrakenDaughter,
But Arya is hardly a female character. She’s more of a boy labeled as female. Sophie put it perfectly once. Wish I could find the quote.
I hope that Arya appears in all remaining episodes. She surely has enough content to appear in 5 more episodes. She is confirmed for 6 and 8 and will likely be in 9 and 10 (directed by David Nutter). Episode 7 is also called the Gift so she will hopefully feature in that episode
Its about time they start featuring her storyline more.
I’m interested in the conversations LF is going to have with Lancel, Cersei, and Olenna. The show brought him back to KL for a reason. I hope we get a glimpse of his plan. Olenna vs Cersei should be great.
I’m not looking forward to uncomfortably watching Sansa and Ramsey’s wedding night.
Walter Harrow,
Arya already has more time than she needs. She needs to not appear for at least 3 more episodes. I don’t want to see Quasimodo more than I need to.
Still don’t know how I feel about DeObia Oparei saying he would want to kiss Sophie Turner in that ask the noobies-video, but him saying he wants to kill Jaime Lannister could be a good indication of the tension that’s going to happen in this episode in Dorne. What are the Sandsnakes going to do? Try to kill Jaime, but Areo saves them? Have we seen Bronn in previous trailers/blurbs past this point? I’m suddenly starting to dread his survivability beyond this episode.
Does Tyrion know that Commander Mormont is dead in the show? Him telling Jorah about the death of his father would make a great scene
This is off topic but King Joffers (or at least his likeness in the Dark Horse figurine has arrived. Four days’ (my understanding is it was posted Monday) travelling time from the USA to the UK is not bad.
King Tommen,
Yep – definitely trolling hater(s)? trying to stir things up. Do not feed.
land of ooo,
Yeah Arya is only the third favorite character on that poll answered by nearly 15000 people, well in front of Jon Snow.
http://www.imdb.com/poll/3IN8hqimhJY/results?ref_=po_sr
Everyone I know that watches the show tell me she’s their favorite. Sure fans don’t give a fuck about her!
I’m sorry for feeding the troll just couldn’t help it
SebLeb,
That poll is so fucking old it’s gathering cobwebs.
There should be a policy on this site that comments should contain a minimum level of intelligence. Looking to read interesting comments but instead finding dumb insults about Arya. Ugh.
goodkinghenry,
I’m sorry, did I offend you by insulting a terrible character with no redeeming characteristics whatsoever. You assume the risk of being insulted with a goblin like that as a favorite.
The only conversation he should be having with Cersei is “Seize him!”. It is implausible in the universe that GRRM has created that Cersei would not know that LF turned Sansa over to the Boltons, and it would be completely out of character for Cersei to do anything less than put his head on a pike for it.
Chad Brick,
Here we go again…
I don’t dislike Arya, but I think her storyline has been a little boring. She feels isolated except for Jaqen, who is a breath of fresh air really. Should be good when Meryn Trant and Mace Tyrell reach Braavos though. That’ll be a good one. #notatroll.
Otherwise she just feels to far removed from the storyline, something that was avoided by Sansa/Ramsay being in the same storyline. It’s also something that occurred in the books. Waif is cool, but characters like the Kindly Man and Ternesio Terys seem too fleeting, but I guess that’s good after the seemingly endless Hound/Arya show. Bring back Gendry (could he possibly sail the Braavos?)!
It’s incredible to see people saying things like “D&D don’t care about Arya anymore”. Considering this story is supposed to be about WAY more than just three or four characters, Arya and Maisie Williams have done considerably well for themselves. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think episodes 4 and 5 of this season were the first time we’ve ever gone two consecutive episodes without seeing her, going right back to season one. Not to mention, the show runners have taken great pains in imagining the rest of Braavos, and creating The House of Black & White, seemingly just for her.
Season five comprises TWO books, where seasons three and four represented two halves of ONE. I love Arya, but it’s about time her screen-time got down-graded in order to give the other places/characters in Martin’s world a chance to shine. Across the last fifteen episodes, we’ve seen the Boltons and Theon a grand total of five times. Sunspear is now “Dorne”, and we’ve seen but a single glimpse of it, and a shallow one at that. Selmy should have gotten more. I miss the Ironborn. I can’t actually remember who Davos is, is he a good character? And Bran, despite a character arc incredibly similar to Arya’s, isn’t in the season at all.
I am just bewildered by people who say D&D don’t care about Arya.
This site is literally the first place I’ve encountered Arya hate. Don’t know if its the same person trolling or what. People come here to read intelligent comments, not hear the same old comments from one Arya hater. It needs to stop.
The Rat Kook,
Exactly. They’re already doing too much for such a boring character. They should just remove it from the story completely. There may be an initial fuss but it would fade after about an hour. There’s nothing keeping the character to the story and she isn’t with anyone interesting, so who gives a fuck?
I’m actually looking forward to LF returning to KL and facing those misguided religious nutjobs. The LF-High Sparrow-Tully-Cersei tension & chaos should reach a fever pitch quickly. Between QoT and LF, there should be quite a fun, determined and underhanded reaction to the idiocy that Cersei has initiated, although I am convinced there will be significant casualties before it really escalates. (I’m waving goodbye to L*****)
land of ooo,
Just to point out, after being expanded in earlier seasons (with Beric and the Red Woman etc.), Arya’s list now matches her list from “A Feast For Crows”, without the missing characters obviously (Raff the Sweetling, Dunsen), without Ser Ilyn (Wilko Johnson’s health issues and absence from the series is probably the reason), and Walder Frey is named explicitly (in the books she just thinks that she would add the Freys of the Crossing, if she knew their names). So, her books list is…
Raff, Dunsen, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Ser Gregor, Cersei, The Freys.
Her show list is now…
Ser Meryn, the Mountain, Cersei, Walder Frey.
So, aside from characters that aren’t in the show at all, and Ser Ilyn’s absence from the rest of the series, it actually matches pretty well. And yes, she hasn’t kept the list consistent, dropping the Red Woman and Beric Dondarrion etc… But then, she did also not kill the Hound, showing that she is willing to drop names from her list.
Remember GRRM’s original intent of the 5 year gap was to skip Arya’s training, me thinks that’s exactly what D&D are going to do, or at the least most of it.
Ser Florian,
I don’t care about book-Arya at all. I don’t even bother to read her shitty chapters. Thank god for online summaries.
Sorry, but it’s not just the female characters that have dedicated hate groups. There’s enough people hating on Jon Snow and Jaime, especially in the earlier seasons. People loved hating on Joffrey and people are still hating on Ramsey. People hating on Daario, except when they see asscheeks, but criticize when we see Loras’ asscheeks (homophobes) and a LOT of people hating on Littlefinger.
Don’t forget the hate D&D themselves get either.. So I don’t think you need to worry for the females specifically. Except for Melisandre, the amount of hate she’s getting just ain’t fair.
Females have it relatively good on this show, as they’re 99% less likely to die. Catelyn, Talisa, Ygritte, Shae, Ross, Septa Mordane, Walder’s latest wife and an unnamed Mormont. Heck I’ll throw in Doreah and Irri and the girl that got offed by Ramsey’s dogs.. and Olly’s mother, but that’s about it. Edit: Forgot the dead slave girl along the road to Meereen. What the heck happened to Jhiqui though? Did she just vanish along with all other Dothraki? Point being, from the top of my head, I can only recall four female main characters and a couple secondary, tertiary and named cameo’s kicking the bucker, while the male list is incredibly long.
Also, I lol’d at this article from EW, specifically this line: “The question is whether they’re an endless parade of misery and victimhood or inspiring figures who triumph in a very masculinized fictional world where no one even thinks of giving the titular headwear to a chick.”. A. It’s not a very masculinized world, the King has no real power and is being toyed with by his mother and wife. B. There’s misery and victimhood among the men as well. C. The “titular headwear”? You don’t wear a throne on your head, you sit on it. xD
mau,
Look I love the show, but how exactly is Chad Brick wrong ? LF handing Sansa over to the Boltons not only means he is betraying the Lannisters by giving the daughter of a traitor and the suspected co-conspirator in Joffrey’s murder to the Warden of the North, but it should also beg the question of how/why LF had Sansa in the first place, and why he didn’t send her back to KL the second he found her. In other words, this move also implicates LF in Joffrey’s murder to an extent. So the show better have a great fucking idea for how he is gonna get out of KL alive, because there is literally no way Cersei wouldn’t execute him for this.
Cotillion,
I was wondering the same thing. Even if Tyrion does not know about Lord Commander Mormont’s death, he did meet him and had respect for him. I hope they have a conversation about him now that Tyrion is “ungagged, unbound, and unbroken.”
Let us be honest. Dorne, Arya etc are all irrelevant.
Sansa is getting married. We all have read the books.
Be ready for a MASSIVE shitstorm, there is no coming back from this.
There will be a TON of criticism of the show as well as the author for using rape as a plot device.
I Like GRRM but he used Jeyne as a rape device to further Theons arc. It was shameful.
Ser Oromis Locke,
Haha.
And EW are one of the better ones.
Dunno if it’s just me but it seems journalistic standards on the internet are pretty atrocious. I guess it’s freedom of speech and the comparatively low cost of web-publishing against paper, but 80% is rubbish. Or I’m just getting old and intolerant :-/
Lancel’s here to stay! Best addition to the cast in ages! Littlefinger comes back to town. “What’s up, I’m Lancel, you might remember me”, “I don’t..”, “I’ve heard of your establishments..”, “Have you now?”, steps in to get in LF’s face: “SIIIIINNAAAAAHH!!!!!!” *que epic music and clobbering time.
Except Cersei probably doesn’t know. Qyburn doesn’t have Varys’ little birds and isn’t even focused on being Master of Whisperer’s, instead he focuses on what’s happening in KL and mostly, Frankenmount. Littlefinger has made it clear that Winterfell is beyond the Lannister’s reach. This could also mean in terms of information.
Dany,
Thank you. Arya is such a non-character at this point. Who gives a shit when there’s Winterfell. Even Dorne is more interesting than Arya at this point, though.
I once said that Arya’s super-fans are annoying with constant whining about her being shortchanged. I’ll take everything back, trolling Arya-haters are far more annoying.
That being said, I really look forward to Dorne this week (and in the weeks to come). The Dornish plot hasn’t really got the chance to shine (the Doran + Ellaria scene was good but the Sandsnake’s got the writing/editing problems). Many readers appear to expect this storyline to be an uncompelling cluster-fuck but I disagree. However, even if those pessimists are right, there should be at least a really great fight scene in this episode by the previews.
1. Sophie Turner is 19 years old, a grown woman. There’s nothing wrong with Oparei’s answer.
2. It is most certainly a masculinized world and it’s laughable that that’s even up for debate. The female characters are for the most part only able to grab power via men, and physical strength, martial skill and knighthood is more valued. Cersei only has authority because she is the king’s mother- and people are scorning even that now and attempting to send her away. The actual figure of power is the male king, and the preferred heirs are male. Someone like Daenerys or the women of Bear Island, or the book’s inheritance practices of Dorne are unusual. That’s why they stand out.
There are lots of great female characters who have strength, and they have to fight against sexism in the story- the books and the show versions both. Brienne, Arya, Sansa, Cersei, pretty much all the women exist in a world where the men set the rules and usually hold the power in their name. We know that there are women like Margaery and Cersei who want power, but they are not allowed to reign in their own name, so yes, it is inherently a masculinized world.
Sue the Fury,
Really? There’s nothing wrong with his answer? Maisie is 18. What if a grown man said they wanted to kiss her (although they wouldn’t)?
This is a stupid question, but can someone tell me if the 2am airing of Game of Thrones on Sky Atlantic has any adverts?
Dany,
Obviously rape is a massive a touchy issue but if rape is in a story is it automatically a ‘plot device’? If not, what makes it one?
In this society marriages need to be consummated – they can be set aside if they’re not (such as Tyrion & Sansa’s). To me it seems an essential part of the story.
Ashara Dayne,
Not really, compare the quality of EW to Grantland and it’s not even close.
Helena,
Yes, 2 ad breaks, around the 20 and 40 minute marks.
Dany,
I’ve already seen some people justify the books doing it and shaming the show for potentially doing it.
I wonder when the “The Wheel” line from the trailer be happening.
It’s shameful how nobody can express their true opinion on a character without being called a troll. I, for one, think Arya is one of the worst cliches of the series. But of course I’ll be called a troll for it.
ace,
ace,
i am thinking it might happen in episode 8 or 9
episode 7 is named as gift …and we know that tyrion and jorah run into slavers by this episode …so in episode 8 dany will go to that small pit arena we see in the trailer and will see tyrion there and she will oppose tyrion fighting ..so she will claim him as a gift like she did with missandei or Hizdar or yezzan gives him as a gift to dany
then in episode 8 she may speak to tyrion about westeros then the line will be delivered
in case tyrion and jorah sit out of episode 7 then speech may happen in episode 9
savetheking,
I don’t like her much either. The most interesting thing about her at this point is that I think when all is said and done she will turn out to have been a villain. Wonder if everyone will still love her then.
A Man Grown,
Of course they’ll love their simpleton meme character. Just because “wahhh she’s a little girl and she’s been through so much wahhh.” Sansa has been through more than Arya and has suffered through more hardship, but she’s still a good person and true to herself. That “poor Arya” excuse is stupid. She’s boring and evil.
land of ooo,
One you’re a woman (or a man), you’re fair game. Being physically attracted to someone who is well out of puberty, and who has developed an adult body with secondary sexual characteristics is not abnormal. That’s the whole point of puberty. To let other members of your species know that you are fit for sexual activity. Sorry but it’s the biological truth.
That said, it does sound kind of creepy, but that is the irrational part of our brains talking.
Mark,
Except we associate them primarily with Sansa and Arya, who are underage. So when people say they want to “kiss” the actresses, or whatever, they’re still keeping that connection the actresses have to the underage characters.
The best thing Littlefinger did was notice how boring the Winterfell storyline was, and get outta Dodge. When Reek is the only character who feels like he’s not putting in time until things get interesting, that’s pretty sad, considering the Boltons are there.
Sansa is a major disappointment for me. She’ll either be the victim of a horrendous moment (kind of doubt it), be involved in it (yup), then turn into a ‘master manipulator’ somehow to ‘surprise’ us all. I don’t WANT her to get hurt, because I’m not a fucking psycho, but I don’t want to feel that having her in every episode was just killing time until a reveal. There’s too much other stuff going on.
While I’m dreaming, I would love for Arya to kill the Mountain, and Sandor show up and be like “What in the actual fuck???” But I’ll settle for seeing Jaqen more this year. Showing all of her training would be too time consuming (hi Bran!), but I expect there will be some good parts in there.
land of ooo,
Is this the newest meme in town? Saying Arya is irrelevant and complaining about there not being enough of her?
Cause hot damn it’s getting REALLY old now.
savetheking,
And a boing one…
land of ooo,
He named the actress, not the character.
I’m going to remind you that there’s a rule here that you can only use one screenname at this website. Switching screennames makes it seem like you might be a troll.
Actually, it is pretty implausible that she would know. The Boltons do not intend to maintain their alliance with the Lannisters, and it seems like Roose is pretty good about keeping secrets.
Remember, in the books, even Varys doesn’t know what the hell is happening in the north. Cersei does not have anywhere near the resources that Varys does, and if it does not involve the Tyrells, then she really doesn’t care.
Sue the Fury: Someone like Daenerys or the women of Bear Island, or the book’s inheritance practices of Dorne are unusual. That’s why they stand out.
That is also a main literary theme of GRRM’s, which has been transferred pretty well to the screen. All of the primary protagonists are “dwarves, bastards or broken things”: or women. All of them have some “flaw” (dwarfism, bastardy, obesity, maiming, lack of a penis) that makes them inferior in the eyes of their society(ies). Things that all of the female characters contribute to each story all stem from being treated as inferior because of #5.
Sue the Fury,
I’m sorry but I don’t find any semblance of pedophilia cute.
Good, so now that Maisie’s 18, 30+ year-olds are allowed to say they fancy here. And it’s not allowed to be slightly miffed by that? Most would’ve seen her as a young teen throughout the series, and those feelings wouldn’t suddenly be there the moment she turned 18. There’s nothing illegal about his answer, but I’m creeped out by it regardless.
I still don’t agree with that second point. Physical strength, martial skill and knighthood are valued? If anything, GRRM is deconstructing the Arthurian-trope. Sandor and Brienne both make it clear that they’re not a knight, but widely recognized as two of the best fighters in the realm, the better of them a woman.
The power lies with the male king, but what do we see in the actual story? The women decide what actually happen, and Tommen is just a tool. Cersei has all the oppurtunity to show everybody that she can rule and is actively applying her own decrees, nobody was actively trying to take that away from her, except for Margaery. Also, in the novels
. “Someone like Danaerys”, probaby one of the two most recognizable characters of the show. Actually, wherever you look there’s actually a woman in charge: With Stannis, he’s heavily influenced by Melisandre. Catelyn negotiated with Lord Walder on equal footing. In King’s Landing, Cersei is ignoring her sons seat of power and making her own actions in his name. Queen of Thorns is another good example of how a woman, not the man, is the actual leader of the family. Arya in her arc in Braavos
. Lysa Tully being in charge of the Vale. Even on the Iron Islands, the most mysogynistic area, Yara is greatly respected and there isn’t an eye that batted twice when the heir-apparent got his dick chopped off, because they still had her.
Yes, the world may at one point be heavily masculinized, but I’d reckon by now it should be clear that GRRM is effectively showcasing that women are just as capable of taking power/action (Dany, QoT, Ygritte, Brienne, Dorne), or effectively turning it to their hands (Marge/Cersei/Melisandre/Arya/Sansa?) without having to ask for male consent at all. If Westeros was once a masculinized world, then that idea is now effectively broken down by GRRM by showcasing the fall of men and their hold on power, and the rise of the assertive woman.
Again: Theon got his whippersnapper chopped off, and King Balon Greyjoy couldn’t care less, because he still has a capable daughter. Which is so assertive that she will ignore her King’s orders any day of the week by the way. That’s the point I’m trying to make, and it’s clearly presented through a lot more then just Dorne and Bear Island.
You badly misunderstand the sort of stories that GRRM is telling if you think that there are “villains” in it or that a character is on a trajectory to become one. This is about my side, the other side, the other other side, etc.: there is no “good” or “evil” save in the arbitrary (and often contradictory) definitions by individual characters. The stories all focus on how you cannot have things two ways: and where Arya fits herself into the world will have to be some compromise between one “right” and another “right” just as it is for every other character.
land of ooo,
No, come on, you know that isn’t true. Dany of the books would be underage in our society. Does that mean we can’t say that the adult Emilia Clarke is hot without being pedophiles ?
Exactly. That kind of thing is just not right to me. There isn’t going to be a reasonable time when the situation is like “oh, it’s okay to want to be with X since they turned 18 just X days ago!” It’s not clear cut like that, and I’m going to be creeped out when anyone says they’re attracted to Sophie or Maisie no matter what, in all seriousness.
May I ask how old Dany is in the show? Because I imagine that she is older than Sansa and Arya by quite a bit. Also, books =/ show. An actress is not associated with a book counterpart to me. I was strictly talking about the show and its characters with respect to the actresses.
It’s so sad that young girls are forced to be sexualized and it’s still justified by society at large. But whatever. This is going off-topic. I’ll stop.
Wimsey,
So nobody knows that the warden of the North’s son is getting married? Nobody knows that a member of the most famous family in the north is in WF? Her arrival wasn’t particularly hidden. Even the innkeeper outside of WF knows. Substantial suspension of belief that the most wanted person in Westeros for the murder of the king is not known about outside of the North.
You’re right, it isn’t clear cut. There isn’t some magical power by which people who aren’t of a certain age can’t be attractive unless you’re a pedophile. There are 17 year olds who have been through puberty, and who look like 20 year olds, or even older.
Will they somehow magically become fair game when they are a day older ? No, even you agree that it doesn’t work that way.
Getting involved with an underage person romantically is destructive, but saying they are physically attractive is not pedophilia, if they are adults in the biological sense. If you’re a fully developed adult, it’s not pedophilia.
Nobody is “forcing” them to be sexualized. When you are an adult, you are a sexual being. Someone being attracted to an adult is not sad, or pedophilia. Sorry.
Yeah I’m gonna disagree on that 18+ = a grown person rule as well.
We’ve watched these kids grow up before our eyes, and if you’re someone who watched the series from Season 1 when they were 10-13 it IS kinda creepy to develop attraction to them.
Reminds me of the people who countdown towards a young girl’s 18th birthday so they can drool over them because they’re “legal” (e.g. Emma Watson).
It may be a very personal view, true. If you’re the same age with them growing up you may be excused in your attraction as both you and them grow up over the years but if you’re an adult person who feels attracted to someone who grew up before your eyes like Hermione from Harry Potter or any of the kids from Game of Thrones I’m gonna judge you.
That is a blanket statement. I’d be careful. These kinds of statements are often very false. There is always an exception or more accurate statement.
Wanted to add a bit. I agree with what Wimsey said on the matter Sue and I argued on. I believe that stating that the current state of affairs is a masculinized world is trying to set up as if the female characters are the ones that are in trouble most, and I don’t believe that’s true as Wimsey put it, all characters have their faults, and while Wimsey attributes that to #5, not having a penis, I don’t think that’s what Cersei’s problem is, nor Dany’s, nor Brienne’s, nor Arya or Sansa’s. It’s not that socalled fault that drives them (I don’t think being a woman is a fault). Well, it might drive Cersei sometimes, aside from wicked paranoia due to an early youth trauma. I believe that calling this a masculinized world is in a sense a scapegoat to overglorify the female characters: “look at our female characters they have such a hard time”, while the actual masculinity in this world is being chipped off by chunks at a time.
It’s important that the North knows. The North now wants Sansa Stark for their own, couldn’t care less about the Boltons, but they also have nothing to say to the Lannisters in the South. They’re not coming North any time soon, and the North knows this. So what can they do? Send a raven: “Hey, Roose Bolton is marrying his son Ramsay to Sansa Stark, you might want to know this”. What’s Cersei going to do? 1. try to get Sansa killed and 2. end her dad’s treaty with the Boltons.
She wouldn’t even know that Littlefinger had anything to do with that, because he was in the Vale, not the North as far as she knows. Hence, sending a raven to KL will only jeopardize Sansa’s situation even further, so the Northern folk know it’s best to try to deal with this situation on their own: The North Remembers.
And besidees, who holds Moat Cailin? In the books
Barbrey Dustin makes it clear that she’s effectively witholding everything trying to go up the Neck, so why can’t the Bolton’s stop everything from going down the Neck? It’s why “going around it” felt like such a cop-out.
This is one of the reasons I don’t visit the forums as much whilst the show is airing: Far too many wankers about. Give me the off season any day.
Anyway, somewhere back at the topic of the post…
I’m struggling to see what LF is going to do down in KL unless he takes the role of
. One thing’s for sure, he won’t have forgotten the “power is power” incident!
Wimsey,
I know all that, just used the word as shorthand, jeez. My pet theory based on no evidence is that Arya will kill Tyrion in book 7. What I like about the path of the Starks is that they’re initially set up to seem like a heroic trope which GRRM goes on to subvert at every turn.
Before you say I’m going into this looking for simple heroes and villains, arguably my two favorite characters are Theon and Stannis.
Ashara Dayne,
Hey! Nice name.
It’s not just the internet. Writing standards have dropped everywhere.
Ser Oromis Locke,
Maybe logistically it would be difficult to arrest Sansa, but not doing so would undermine the crown’s authority.
About the north not telling Lannisters: If the reward is big enough there will definitely no shortage of northern peasants willing to cash in. And regicide suspect=big reward
land of ooo,
They care about twice as much as GRRM, at least.
No doubt, Westeros, the world where men set the rules. But do the rules, which are set by the men, really have inherent masculine form? Does setting rules purely depend on gender? If it depends on gender, do u think people in no-gender societies live in some kind of anarchy?
Arkash,
I think the pace will pick up in episode 6, actually.
-Tyrion and Jorah getting captured by slavers (which means the next step is Meereen)
-Sansa and Ramsay’s wedding, which scares the living shit out of me because of the equivalent scene in the books
-Arya possibly seeing the face room, and maybe going blind
-Littlefinger and Olenna arriving in King’s Landing, and Loras’s trial
Chad Brick,
Nobody outside of the Winterfell inner-circle knows about it, though. When Brienne asked the old guy to get a message to Sansa he played dumb (at first). Which is why she still has black hair.
But it will pick up in the wrong place …. Dorne :-/
Why introduce Tully´s, Edmure and Blackfish or the Freys only to have them dissapear for 2 seasons …???
And the most important fact is if there is no yGriff there is NO GODDAMN REASON for Dorne to be in the TV show!
Since when did Arya become so polarizing? Gods, every topic seems to be hijacked by her haters or super fans. This must be an internet only type of thing, as everyone I know personally who has read the books and/or watched the show at least likes her.
Pigeon,
That’s weird . I feel like the presence of Sansa has dramatically INCREASED the relevance of the Winterfell storyline, and thus warranted an increased screentime for the Boltons and Reek compared to last season. A clever adaptation choice that’s given us more Sansa and more Winterfell.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Agreed. It’s just a bunch of Arya fans that are mad and jealous Sansa’s getting more episodes than her. Which doesn’t mean a thing because Arya has more scenes in the episodes she’s in, but they won’t listen to reason. Best ignore it, my friend.
I’m honestly way more pissed about the Loras situation. I mean he’s being put on trial because he’s gay? Even by Westeros standards, it seems like a waste of a trial. It also pissed me off because it’s the culmination of all the mishandling of his character in general. Instead of being one of the finest warriors in Westeros who happens to like men, he’s just the obligatory gay guy. All the serious drama that the character is dealing with right now stems from the fact that he’s gay. It’s so stupid. Oberyn was handled perfectly right from his first scenes. Yeah you get that he’ll fuck anything that walks, but you also were shown how deadly he was. Has Loras taken his sister’s place as far as being imprisoned by the faith? I don’t see them locking up both of the Tyrell siblings, but who knows.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
This Arya/Sansa debate is so fucking stupid. As I’ve said since the beginning: THEY’RE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS AND THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO BE!!! Why the fuck to people have to treat this like it’s some competition? One of the biggest reasons that make Arya, Arya and Sansa, Sansa is that they contrast each other perfectly. Arya has always thumbed her nose at being the conventional Westerosi female, while Sansa has always embraced it. They may go about things in completely different ways but I love them both because they’re both strong characters in their own right. See, look at that. It’s totally possible to like Sansa and Arya equally.
Dutch maester,
That’s good though, because there has to be something for everyone. I actually think that in very few scenes and words, this has been Alfie Allen’s best season yet. And although Sansa isn’t my cup of tea, a lot of people love her.
Maceless Fan,
It’s a bit ridiculous, and look at what they did with Renly’s character…at risk of being called a ‘purist’ since people love that term so much, Renly was an example of where the book made a much stronger character, whereas the series weakened him and made him a caricature of himself.
Had to chuckle at the idea that attraction is something people can choose or control. I didn’t realize many social conservatives visited WotW. I think Ramsay put this one best, “Yes, I think she’s pretty. I’m not blind.”
Now of course, people can control if and how they talk about it. But if it’s being discussed, don’t expect people to be dishonest.
It seems like Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are going to try to kill Myrcella, but does anyone else think that Trystane and Myrcella (or maybe just Trystane) may be plotting to crown her as Queen and usurp Tommen?
They’ve only had 10 seconds of screen time so far, but when I was watching the subtitles on Episode 2, the one line of theirs that was picked up (meaning it’s in the script, I think) was him greeting her as “My future Queen”. Sure, it could just be a joke or flirting, but I think it was meant to be some sort of subliminal foreshadowing. She wouldn’t even consider the possibility of ever actually being the Queen as she’s second in line (for now), so I think that the only way she could think of herself as a Queen is if they were scheming to use the Dornish rules of succession, which are gender-free, unlike the rest of Westeros.
I doubt that Sansa’s bedding ceremony will be anything like Jeyne Poole’s. I get the impression that he’s trying to win Sansa over to his side and appease his father, so brutalizing her doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t mean that he won’t brutalize others in his proximity (Myranda, Reek) and Sansa would never choose to have sex with him because of who he is, but I expect it to be more awkward and unpleasant than cruel and violent.
When we re-visit Arya in the HoBaW this episode, I imagine she’ll be much further along in her Faceless Man training. Since the first stages (entrance and initiation) were covered entirely in one episode, I think the episodes of her as a novice will be dealt with this week. People who are complaining that she’s not in enough episodes should consider themselves lucky that she’s got the screen time that she has. This type of training is usually covered with a montage set to “Eye of the Tiger”.
Pigeon,
I agree with you but as bad as Renly got it, Loras seems to be getting it way worse. I mean think about what Loras did (or supposedly did) later in the story. It’s sooo badass. He went from that to just being a gay tool to be used as a plot device.
Maceless Fan,
Loras should go on trial, but not for being gay…he should go on trial for that awful character-defaming conversation he had with Sansa in the KL gardens in S3ep6. He might even deserve the death penalty for that.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Hahaha I had almost forgot about that. See I could deal with moments like that a little better if they were contrasted with Loras’ badassery. But no, Loras is a sword swallower and that’s all you really need to know about his character, apparently. And if Loras isn’t getting married or joining the kingsguard than how will the Tyrell line even continue with Willas and Garlan cut from the show?
Maceless Fan,
At least his homosexuality is now being used to further the plot. Rather than trying to get Margaery on her virginity, Cersei is attacking Loras on his homosexuality.
Yea it sucks, but show Loras is not book Loras…
and AT LEAST they are using it now to further the plot rather than just for obligatory male nudity.
I see loras as just a plot device in Cersei’s storyline this season, and in that regards, I’m fine with it.
But honestly, they could’ve arrested Loras for homosexuality, while still not ruining his character.
BTW about those complaints about Arya being in so few eps. so far (despite her having quite a bit of screentime when compared to most other characters), it’s likely that she’ll be in every ep. for the rest of this season…so rest easy.
So, don’t fret y’all.
Do you really believe that matters in the show? The ideal Loras and Tyrell balance is relegated to the page. show!Loras has become a tool and a pawn (nothing like the potential of his inspiring Blackwater arrival in KL). His trial will be an obvious hypocrisy (cloaking the real hypocrisy of Cersei’s Queen Regent tenure) and will be the catapult for chaos between Cersei, Tommen, Marg, Olenna, LF, and the HS. Regardless of the trial malfeasance, it is what it leads to that really matters. Should be quite fun!
HelloThere,
You’re right, I suppose. I guess I should be grateful for small favors haha. Every once in a while I have to remind myself to separate the show characters from their book counterparts, but it’s not always easy. The problem with this Loras approach compared to his sister in the books is that she’s married to the king and that’s why her virginity comes into play. Loras is a bachelor and his sexual proclivities shouldn’t really be put under this much scrutiny, but I guess you can argue that religious fanatics usually have a problem with homosexuality.
Does anyone else find it strange that this episode is only rated like this?
TVMA: Adult Content, Adult Language?
I mean, it’s the only episode in the season rated just with these too categories so far… It seems strange with the fight scenes and all.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I feel like it should matter in the show because continuing the family line is a constant in both the book and the show. The show made it so that Loras is the sole heir to Highgarden. In the books, it was fine that Loras doesn’t want to marry because Willas is the heir and there’s still Garlan. The only thing that I can gather from this is that the Tyrell line is going to be extinguished in the show because it’s hanging by a thread. I doubt we’ll see Randyll Tarly until next season so it doesn’t look like he’ll save Loras.
Maceless Fan,
EW posted this in their latest “Spoiler Room” article:
This week’s episode will see the return of one fan-favorite character. Is that enough of a fix? No? It’s also Sansa and Ramsay’s wedding, which will definitely have people talking.
Who could that be? hmm…
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Speaking of Olyvar, I’m sure he’s fucked. I mean I’m pretty sure that Loras is, tool. Even with him being a Tyrell. Olyvar is just a whore. I’m sure they’re going to have him testify against Loras, but that’ll obviously mean his own death, as well.
Balerion The Cat,
Wait, I don’t understand. I thought that critics only saw the first four episodes. How would they know who’s going to show up in ep.06?
Maceless Fan,
EW had heavy access to this season.
Remember they had those 4 collector covers with huge GOT content
Maceless Fan,
It’s EW, they’ve always had the latest GoT scoop.
The “fan favorite” character is probably Olenna
Balerion The Cat,
It’s the QOT.
Blackfish!
Maceless Fan,
The thing with Loras, if he is on trial, wouldn’t he just demand a trial by combat? He is owed that right.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
In the past that’s been HBO’s place-holder rating for GoT episodes. Even though the ep. airs in a few days, I doubt it’s accurate. They still have 509 rated for only those things too, which WE KNOW is incorrect given the content of that episode, so I’d bet the same is true here. Why they’ve updated eps. after these ones and not these ones though, I really don’t know.
Balerion The Cat,
Yeah, it’s QoT and she’s pissed. Go Olenna!
On a crazy, tinfoil note, are we sure that Myranda’s father was the kennelmaster at the Dreadfort and not Winterfell? I think that Kyra was the daughter of the kennelmaster of Winterfell in the books and that Ramsay took her back to the Dreadfort as a prisoner.
Since we don’t know any of her story from before Season 3, is it possible that she and Tansy (from Season 4) were prisoners from Winterfell and that Myranda is just better at keeping Ramsay interested enough to stay on the “right” side of his hunts? Purely speculative with nothing to back it up, but just a thought I had.
HelloThere,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
It could be her, I didn’t think of her since she was in the episode promo, so it’s not really something we don’t already know. But yeah, it’s probably her
I think this is the first time we’ve seen Roose Bolton wearing something other than black.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
GREATJON UMBER
One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,
Seeing Greatjon Umber again would be awesome, but if that’s the case, they’ve done an excellent job keeping it under wraps.
Greenjones,
yeah I saw that for episode 509 too, but I thought it might be because they didn’t know yet what rating to give it because it’s one of the last episodes, but this one with only 2 days before it seems odd…
Entertainment Weekly is saying that a “fan favorite” will be back this week. Do we think it is Olena or someone else?
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/15/spoiler-room-thrones-hannibal-legends-spoilers
Edit: Hmm this is my first time trying to cover spoilers, what should I use instead of the blockquote option?
Edit2: I guess this is already being discussed.
Dany,
I hate how people treat rape as the most inexcusable terrible thing to ever show in a series we consistently see both sex and gorey violence. Yes, rape is terrible- but if there’s a point in showing it, and it helps the story or the characters, how is it any worse than (for instance) Theon’s torture? It’s not meant to be fun to watch.
We already know Olenna is returning this week after a long absence so I wouldn’t go hoping for anyone more exciting.
The only EW articles about Game of Thrones that are worth reading anymore are the ones actually written by Hibberd. It’s really gone downhill over there.
Joffrey’s Cunt,
I wonder if they’ll even bother to fix it before 506 airs. We know there’ll be violence in the ep. at the very least.
Dany,
by that logic, GRRM used beheading on Ned to further the plot of the whole series
shameful
He burned Mirri Maz Dur alive to further Daenerys’s plotline
shameful
This is not true, Wimsey.
Here is Westeros.org’s chapter summary of AFFC Chapter 17 (Cersei IV), which corresponds pretty closely timewise to where we are at in the show.
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Feast_for_Crows-Chapter_17
The crown was not remotely blind to the north, nor could it be in GRRM’s world. Also, what good what a “secret” wedding to Sansa do the Boltons? How is the marriage supposed to help them passify the north if they don’t tell anyone? And if they do tell people, minor lords like Manderly would have immediately been scheming…and some of those schemes would have involved the crown. Ravens take 3-4 days to get from the north to King’s Landing. LF would take at least a month. He’d be a dead man in the books with this plan, and I cannot see any reason that the TV-universe would be any different other than straight-up plot hole. TV-LF is banking his life on the fact that no one in the north would say anything about Sansa to Cersei? That’s not gambling. That’s suicidal.
Dany,
Not again with the rape thing.
Bad things happen to people. In the real world. In a book. On a tv show.
Let’s not be American and overreact to everything.
Chad Brick,
You are correct.
Maybe LF has some way in the show of keeping information from Cersei… not holding my breath though.
Now lets drop all this because its getting tiring.
Chad Brick,
Unless, in the next episode, he just TELLS Cersei the Boltons have Sansa and are now marrying her to Ramsay, thus betraying the Lannister-Bolton alliance. Cersei is mad, but happy LF told her. LF says he will fix this. They agree LF should take the knights of the Vale to WF to deal with the Boltons.
I’m not saying this will happen, but it could. Let’s just see what happens before we make claims about what TV-LF is banking his life on.
Who would the Bolton’s have told? Moreover, who is left? Anyone not under the Bolton’s thumbs is a Stark sympathizer: and the last people they would tell would be the Lannisters.
Now, had B&W kept a host of Freys up there, then you would have a point. But there isn’t.
My apologies, I was unclear. Their problem is not that they lack penises. (Or Y-chromosomes if that makes you less squeemish.) The hardship that they have to overcome this stigma in the eyes of the rest of their world(s) is that they are women. Jon’s is that he’s a bastard. Davos’ is low-birth and being maimed. Jaime’s is being maimed. Tyrion’s is being a dwarf. Bran’s is being crippled. Sam’s is being obese. Theon’s is being a completely broken man (which includes lacking a penis now).
So, the problem for Daeny, Arya, Sansa, Cersei, etc., is that they have to overcome this “handicap”: they simply live in a world where women are considered less than men. (A world that still exists for us in some places too: in fact, probably still in more places than it does not exist.)
Dutch maester,
Chad Brick,
You’re thinking too much. The show clearly intends for the info to never reach Cersei. Only lords with Maesters are able to send ravens. In show-verse, the Boltons certainly won’t be communicating with KL. The Northern Lords all want Ned’s daughter protected. Littlefinger certainly won’t be telling Cersei. The storyline isn’t supposed to make sense, it is supposed to up the drama. Even D&D have to know this.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
That’s very true, unless the Faith Militant just decide to execute him anyway. Who would he fight if it did go the route of a trial by combat, I wonder?
It is secret until they don’t need it to be so. The Boltons know that the Lannisters are a spent force. This is stated both in the books and on TV. However, Roose has been shown (in both media) to be subtle and cautious: the rest of the world will know about Sansa when he’s prepared to let them know, and part of that will depend on when he’s certain who the power is in the south.
But, seriously, you greatly overestimate how good communications would be in this sort of world.
Sue the Fury,
By the way, my apologies: I just realized that I screwed up my quote of your statement, and it looks like I was just repeating you. I must have messed up the backquote or something. I didn’t mean to plagiarize!
Hah! Yes, communication in Westeros is subjective. It is as good as the situation warrants it to be.
Braincandy,
Dany, Arya, Sansa, Catelyn, Brienne, Arianne ……………………should i go any further?
The sad part isn’t that they hate some of those characters, it’s the fact that they go out of there own way just to harass the fans. On facebook, it’s rediculous, especially the “Stannis the Mannis” worshipers whose main objectivbe is to bash Dany and her fans with sometime a very misogynistic language.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Come on, he doesn’t think. He counts. Miles, days, months, ravens, movements, percentages. He doesn’t even breathe to make all these calculations. For him the word “fiction” simply does not exist.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Well, in some cases, it makes sense that it is pretty good. If you have a Maester with ravens working with you, then it can be pretty good. Alternatively, if you have a lot of people on your side at a place, then one could imagine that it is pretty good. For example, in the books,
However, the Vale has been under Lyssa’s and now Littlefinger’s control. Lysa did not like the Lannisters and LF is playing his own game in which the Lannisters no longer seem to figure. In both books and on TV, the other Vale lords are not fond of the Lannisters. So, that really would let them hide things from the Lannisters pretty well. Similarly, Bolton now has control of what information gets in and out of Winterfell: nobody is sending ravens to Kings Landing these days. Without that, the news would be sporadic and unreliable.
At any rate, it certainly is a world in which it would be possible to really put a stranglehold on what information gets out of an area, or to actively get “misinformation” that cannot be discounted out to the rest of the world.
What does strike me as curious is, exactly what does Cersei have in mind for LF? Clearly she wants to use him as a tool against the Tyrells: but to what end? Is it to do with Loras, or does she have some scheme that will involve Margaery? I am intrigued. TV Cersei is not quite as inane as book Cersei, so the plan might not be completely blithering: but I suspect that Cersei’s inability to take an upstart like Littlefinger seriously might create problems for her.
Wimsey,
And we saw a scene where Roose wanted to check and approve LF’s message to KL. I am very sure that D&D pay attention to these kind of details to make things look like plausible as much as possible. It is inevitable that this cannot work all the time. But on the whole there is an eye for detail and consistency to a great extent.
Not sure why people are so convinced nothing bad can happen to Sansa? I mean Ramsay was hardly being charming during that dinner time speech where he reminded her of her whole family being offed and then made the guy who “killed” two of her brothers the person who is to give her away. Converserly, Sansa’s attempts at manipulating Ramsay consist of her sitting around sulking at dinner. She’s fucked…probably literally.
King Tommen,
I didn’t dislike Arya until this season. Her storyline has been totally awful, bringing back Jaqen was a HUGE mistake and his reveal was super cringy to me.
Regarding Sansa,
Maybe his words about revenge were not only convincing to her pointing toward the Boltons. Perhaps he indirectly inspired her with his speech to take it to him in the end.
King Tommen,
Have your ears been itching? You correctly calling the Sansa/Ramsay wedding has been mentioned several times over the past couple of weeks. 🙂
TheTouchOfFrost,
For ME, it’s not that I don’t think something bad couldn’t happen to Sansa, it’s that all the hype (including from Sophie) seems to be almost too obvious. Like “Oh those guys are just looking to pull one over on us again”.
And of course, they know that book – readers will be half expecting that scene. I don’t think it’ll happen, but I do think something terrible will. TO her? Don’t know. Involving her? Absolutely.
Of course it could all be reverse psychology.
Boye,
Totally agree with you. I can see LF’s own words coming back to bite him eventually.
I think that while she may not completely trust him, she hasn’t yet felt like one of his expendable pawns, placed in danger in order to help his own endgame. After the wedding night, that may change.
A good question and I am intrigued as well…
Pigeon,
I’m in agreement about the fuckery. But I am also curious as to where this is heading.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
That’s exactly it, you’ve put it better than I could! 🙂 Unfortunately most men in Tyrion’s position would not have respected what she wanted, and I certainly wouldn’t think Ramsay ever would. So while I wouldn’t say any sex scene would be at all wanted by her, I also think that she accepts that it will happen, and I don’t expect it to be what Iwan Rheon was feeling sick over.
I love how everyone is primarily focused on Sansa this season 🙂
Wimsey,
mariamb,
I’m totally expecting LF to play both sides of the field…catering to both QoT and Cersei. I think it is rather fun having him back in the mix at KL. Of course, I would like to see LF’s plans backfire too….he’s had it too easy.
Pigeon,
I think Sansa could be complicit in Myranda’s death. I have a feeling Ramsay was not pleased with Myranda showing Theon to Sansa. I’d guess he’d see that as Myranda not only over-stepping, but stealing his thunder. I think she will pay for it. Much in the way Margaery “won over” Joffery with the cross-bow scene, I could see Sansa realizing the only way to keep herself from harm is to go along with whatever horrible scenario Ramsay has in mind for Myranda (I could see him presenting it to Sansa as a “wedding gift”).
I was hoping the show would parallel Margaery and Sansa this season. She’s lacking a self-assuredness right now; her voice dwindles the further she gets into a sentence and you can still hear her voice almost crack sometimes. I’m hoping for a very assured Sansa!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Sansa is going to be the strongest woman on the show by the end of the season, I’m betting. She’s going to be active instead of passive, and she WILL probably win over Ramsay. I definitely agree with you on that.
I think that’s just Sophie’s bad acting.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I like this as a possibility as well. We could take that a little further in the shocking/traumatic red wedding adjacent theme as:
And am I just as sick for speculating it?
Valaquen,
I agree, Nym and Valaquen…to be honest, I’d like to see her turn into something different than a new evil character or manipulator, but that’s the name of the game it seems. Myranda is definitely toast one way or the other. *waves*
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
That would be an interesting scenario especially if it coincides with the Gift episode. In any case what makes Sansa more interesting this season is that she still keeps her old self of being observant, distant and not revealing too much except for the necessary (even her mild animosity towards the Boltons is not something that will strike as strange to them) and this is something that builds to the crescendo we all expect being it painful or not. I think that that momentum will define Sansa’s character. Some people scorned Sansa’s transformation to Dark Sansa as only feathers on a black dress but having her still on a process of transformation to the point that she can become a player of her own seems at this very point natural and fitting.
I can’t wait until 1 day, 23 hours, 58 minutes, and 30 seconds from now.
Pigeon,
Hodor’s Bastard,
I don’t tend to put much stock in what the actors say as they’re going to try and create interest in their role whatever is happening. Plus the fact she’s compared some things to the Red Wedding in shock value is patently ridiculous.
What I think is going to happen will be
Well that’s my theory/hope anyway.
Sansa will work on Roose and Ramsay’s fears of each other’s ruthlessness.
Boye,
If you’re sick for speculating that, I’m sick for speculating Ramsay could present whatever his idea is for Myranda as a wedding present to Sansa. I cringed as I thought of it.
Boye,
TheTouchOfFrost,
That is very well thought out, and I think it’s definitely plausible. The look on
Sean C.,
Not that I’m married to my speculation, but where is proof to that?
Boye,
I don’t remember if it was mentioned during last episode but does Ramsay actually know that it was Myranda that led Sansa into the kennels
TheTouchOfFrost,
Interesting.
But how does this relate to the wedding/bedding? No idea…but the fArya aspect of it makes me shudder. Given the title of the episode, I would expect Sansa to maintain some resistance to Ramsay, possibly causing Reek to break back to Theon and react…but what will or can he/she do? Kill Ramsay? Will the Rohorrim beacon in the tower come into play? Maybe Brienne scales the WF wall (a la Theon in S2) and bursts in? Ughh. Who knows? I’m intrigued though. Maybe the WF catacombs will come into play!!
Well, Turner is an actress and at this point she knows that it goes with the turf. If she has any kind of successful career, then she almost certainly will do several before all is said and done. I do not know that actors ever want sex scenes per se: but they certainly tend to covet the roles that call for them.
At any rate, I agree that this is not what would make Iwan Rheon sick. I think that people are looking at it as if Sansa and Turner both are 13 year olds as in the book AND that 13 years means anything in this world. In Westeros (like most “traditional” societies in our world), women have three ages: pre-menarche (= girl), post-menarche (= woman) and post-menarche (= crone). If there was any concern about youth, then it came with some peoples recognizing that very young mothers were more apt to die delivering kids. (The concern that they would not be virgins at marriage tended to outweigh that: Darwinism sort of dictates that.) The concepts of adolescence or emotional immaturity were absent: and if you got into a time machine and tried to explain it to people from comparable societies, they would think you were daft.
And it’s not like Iwan or any other men in the program have to “pretend” to treat a 13 year old actress (or ~16 year old, as I guess that Sansa is supposed to be by now) as if she is a 25 year old. Instead, they have a rather mature-looking 18 or 19 year old. (Turner could pass for her mid-20’s easily enough.) And late 20’s guys dating late teens women is not unheard of. Not long ago, it was normal!
So, instead, whatever Iwan thinks is “sick” is going to be something, well, out and out sick. It won’t be something that would have passed for normal in the 1950’s.
On a side note, if Qyburn and Ramsay met at a party, then would anybody else leave it?
Joffrey’s Cunt,
Maybe HBO still trying to figure out how they want to edit that Sansa Ramsay bedding scene?
And it has already been leaked what happens in that sequence. I don’t know if the people theorizing just prefer not to be spoiled or are unaware that that information has been leaked.
Hodor’s Bastard,
The Rohirrim Beacon!
But when in the span of one or two scenes Cersei sends a letter to the Vale, which then is taken by horse rider in the night to Winterfell…isn’t it fair to “greatly overestimate how good communications would be in this sort of world”?
Wimsey,
Ah sorry for not clarifying – I meant the character, not the actress. Sansa would know, obviously, that going in to a marriage it would be expected to happen, although obviously she would rather it didn’t, like with Tyrion. She’s certainly not naive in that way.
Qyburn, Ramsay, and Arys walk into a bar….
JamesL,
I thought that was said to not be a real leak? You mean the synopsis of the storylines that it was included in? Maybe I’m thinking a different site.
Pigeon,
The one from the perv-site Recapped, not the 4Chan ones.
In any case if Ramsay will be a casualty this season I wouldn’t mind a death with a direct reference to (and reversal of) the Artemis-Aktaion myth. Sansa’s last look in the Bolton dinner implied that she will play mind-games with Ramsay.
Greenjones,
Ok that makes sense…I haven’t been to that site yet, since I’m not sure I’d find what I’m looking for without finding what I’m Not looking for. Ha!
Pigeon,
Episode 6 spoilers
19 year old mature adults are hard to come by. The biological excuse is primitive. We’re trying to live in a society here.
I had a dream that Cogman wrote all of the episodes and Dorne didn’t suck.
Maybe the title also refers to Sansa, double meaning and all that.
JamesL,
Well that’s a possibility, I just don’t believe we will see anything at all, like they said on recapped, it will be mostly focused on Theon’s reaction, but from his reaction in the trailer it looks something pretty awful so I’m not sure rating it only by “adult content” would suffice.
p.s i just realised that this episode is close to my username woooo
Pigeon,
I hope they keep it as close to the books as they can as the Winterfell plot was really strong. Also keeps things nice and tight with no loose ends.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Oh she’s a disposable character without doubt. I just think this would be an effective use for her. The idea that she becomes a victim of Ramsay isn’t great for me because 1/ I think she creates little sympathy with the viewer as she’s pretty sick in the head and an obvious social climber. So having Ramsay kill or torture her wouldn’t raise much reaction from the viewer and some may even think it’s what she deserves. 2/ She’s Ramsays toy almost and I think it would lend to his personality of an almost spoilt/twisted brat that if she’s killed it’s like taking his toy away from him. So it wouldn’t be so much about him being bothered about her being dead but he’d see it as an insult to him that someone dare damage his property.
If the Ramsay/ Sansa thing happens then I think it would be enough for a viewing public to have Theon strip her and then watch as Ramsay has rough sex with her. With it being her first time I think this would be a traumatic/humiliating enough scene to make her need to escape WF. I’m not opposed to a rape scene to be honest. Obviously rape isn’t a good thing but this is a story and it’s a world where nasty things happen. I think something needs to happen to invest people in Sansa more. Something traumatic would really get people on her side and act as a catalyst for her character development. Would also judder Reek back into Theon and make Ramsay even more despised ( I do still worry that he sometimes still sails too close to being comedic). With Roose laying out some backstory last episode we know rape is condoned in the family so that could be an ominous sign.
Not sure why people are worried about Sophie Turner in this. Sounds weird but I bet she couldn’t wait to act out the traumatic scenes. As an actor/actress they must relish having such powerful material to work with in spite of it being a sensitive subject.
Sansa has already had plenty of trauma, so I fail to see why being raped will somehow meaningfully advance her development more (or get audiences more invested).
TheTouchOfFrost,
Even after discussing this “forced & belabored match” since before the season started, I still haven’t wrapped my arms around this scene. Sometimes I find myself oddly wanting the horrible fArya scenario to be grusomely adapted, sometimes I want Sansa to find a way out of this predicament, sometimes I want Sansa to be saved again…. But the fact is, I fucking hate this situation…for the simple reason that Ramsay doesn’t deserve Sansa, nor does Sansa need to be abused again. Even SanSan is a better way to go for Sansa than this. Or maybe I’m in denial over Sansa no longer being a virgin. In any case, I’m going to sit back, eat some popcorn, drink some fire & blood ale, and watch this D&D fantasy play out and hope for the best. I never was an adamant Sansa follower, but it really is stunning to see the girl who dreamed of betrothal to royalty and knights suffer this shit.
So are we sure Sansa is going to have sex with Ramsey?
Cause I’ve been dreading that moment, but I don’t see a scenario where it’s not going to happen and that’s pretty messed up…
goodkinghenry,
The north hates the south(red wedding and Ned’s death). But they hates the Bolton’s….. But they are to afraid not the Bolton’s since the Bolton’s are actruallybin the land. And for all we know they could have killed all the crows. No crows no messages
Once Sansa is deflowered, her relationship with Theon will blossom.
Sean C.,
She has but it’s always happened to her family and not her directly. In a world where people are getting killed, mutilated and raped she’s managed to keep away from things that raw quite well ( she got a glimpse in the KL riots). She doesn’t NEED to be raped but if it happens then I have no problem with it from a story perspective. It will illicit a strong emotional response from the audience and that is what the show wants. I mean I’ll get fed up of all those who can’t seperate fictional rape shown to tell a story and the very serious issues of real world rape, but as a scene it will be powerful and people will keep watching to see Sansa get her own back against who did it. Even the most ardent Sansa fan has to admit her story so far has been incredibly pedestrian. She hasn’t done anything memorable in 4-5 seasons. This would make people sit up and take notice and give her a launchpad to be more interesting. Some people seem to think she has to remain a paragon of virtue and that her first time should be magical. As Ramsay himself said “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention”.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I must say ‘m enjoying it more than I thought I would. I still think the means of getting Sansa to Winterfell were incredibly contrived and made no sense whatsoever. But now she’s there and in a perilous situation it’s made it more interesting. Hey, why not have both?! She could suffer the horror and then escape? I think she still has this unrealisitc view of being rescued and having a fairytale ending (certainly from the WoW chapter released. Perhaps the scene, if it happens, will finally make her realise she needs to make things happen herself as that knight in shining armour and the happy ending in all the songs and stories is not going to happen. It’s certainly making interesting watching. Sometimes people can watch a show more for the people they hate get what’s coming to them than those they like (Joff!). Why does Floyd Mayweather make so much money?! If Ramsay does what he might then he’d certainly be public enemy No1 and interest in the story will really peak.
Laura,
I dunno. I don’t think we need to see anything too graphic (certainly don’t need to see Sophie naked as good-looking a lass as she is) but I think she herself would relish the chance to act in such a powerful scene. Do think Theon’s facial expressions would be an excellent way of telling the story though as Alfie is nailing it this season. Perhaps the initial part of the scene could be Sansa and Ramsay and then as it continue it pans to Theon? Perhaps a good thing Alex Graves isn’t directing this season…although perhaps the infamous Cersei/Jaime scene would be more fitting here!
TheTouchOfFrost,
This. All of this.
I’m sick of being bored and frustrated by Sansa, and am actually looking forward to a (hopeful) change in her character. I want to see her show intelligence, strength, cunning, and moving forward instead of being a spectator or a manipulated pawn. I WANT to root for the girl at this point, after 4 seasons of being annoyed by her sullen naiveté and having been partially responsible (not that she had much choice) in Ned becoming a pez dispenser.
Wimsey,
I suppose LF will tell Cersei about Olyvar and they will force him to testify against Loras telling a lot of lies about the Tyrells. Like this singer Cersi tortured in AFFC.
I suppose we could also call it his dogmatic slumber. 😉
Here’s another happy thought: the Boltons may be traditional enough to expect a bedding ceremony after the wedding. That would probably push our Sansa over the edge into full payback mode.
But what if she likes it? What if we have another extreme Stockholm Syndrome case here? Heck, a deflowered Sansa could be a total bedroom S&M diva and total dominatrix over Ramsay. Maybe she’ll even build a red room. Maybe Brienne is in for a great surprise when the beacon is lit. Beware of the She-Wolf of Winterfell!!
🙂
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
lol
Not true in the slightest. She’s been physically and emotionally abused throughout her time in King’s Landing and afterward, including multiple past instances of/threats of sexual assault.
Even if one was to concede that, “the show has done a terrible job adapting Sansa’s story” is not a good argument for why they now need to change her story to have her raped.
I have no idea how you could read Sansa’s chapters and think that’s the case.
I just read the WoW preview chapters (I wanted to wait for WoW, but with recent developments in the show I went ahead.)
1. If Myranda is equivalent to
But what do I know?
2. Arya’s story
Reading those chapters have given me some fresh lines of speculation. While I’m still excited for Dorne, speculations regarding the future of that plot have run in circles.
Sean C.,
She’s been bullied and slapped a couple of times. Not pleasant at all but compared to the stuff other characters have been through, it’s pretty tame.
They’ve not done a terrible job as she’s dull as ditchwater in the books too. How do you know she doesn’t get raped in the future in the books? If rape works as a way of making her story better then I’m all for it. If you prefer the same passive observer Sansa then that’s your preference.
Have you read the Alayne chapter released from tWoW? She’s back to talking about boys and giggling whilst dreaming about her perfect wedding. She’s made no progress at all. I blame her Tulley blood. Worst family in the whole of Westeros.
Uh, yeah, whatever.
Also, she was not “slapped”, she was brutally beaten repeatedly, including one time being beaten almost into unconsciousness with the flats of steel blades.
Sean C.,
You could put a little bit more effort into a reply than whatever.
In the show, she wasn’t and I still maintain being beaten up isn’t as bad as a lot of other folks have had it. Her pathetic roll-over attitude makes her an incredibly frustrating character. It’s understandable for the first couple of seasons/books but this is season 5/ book 6 and she’s still as naive and wet as she was at the start.
And this is where she’s at in WoW:
Pretty much sums up the ridiculousness of that chapter. Made me ‘shutter’. 😉
goodkinghenry,
There wouldn’t really be a practical way of getting the information to Cersei. The ravens are all controlled by maesters, so would have to be sent by one of the noble houses, and the Boltons are the only allies the Lannisters have in the north.
The journey south to kings landing would take days at least, especially if you don’t have a bodyguard of nights of the vale with you, so it’s unlikely that even if someone decided to make the long journey to get the news to KL, through Bolton controlled Moat Cailin, they wouldn’t necessarily get there before Littlefinger, who received the summons on his second day at Winterfell (a rider came in the night).
As of episode 3, Cersei thought Baelish was still in the Eyrie, and would have no reason to seek info on Winterfell, or to turn her attention to it at all.
steve,
when was the raven to the Eyrie sent though? It could have been shortly after Baelish left.
This has been an ongoing issue with Sansa among fans since the 1990’s. She has shown the least growth of any character in the series. Yes, she has been “torn down” a bit: she’s not the fan-girl who now who still clings to what we might call “purist” views on fairy tales: but she hasn’t become anything new yet.
So, is Sansa just coming in 10th out of 10 in development of primary protagonists? Or is GRRM doing this deliberately? I think that it is the latter. GRRM went for the little used “brainy songbird” motif: i.e., the pretty girl who is initially dumb as a doorbell but then gets smart, as opposed to the more classic “ugly duckling” motif: the intelligent girl who turns out to be pretty (e.g., Arya, Hermione Granger, all the women I dated in grad school!).
Given this, I think that people might be misinterpreting the whiffling digestive organ. Yes, one interpretation is that this is just starry-eyed romance. But that’s hardly the only thing that gets your gut all akimbo. I still get a “fluttering tummy” for a moment before I give talks, even though I’ve been doing that for 30 years. I remember playing sports and getting that sensation. I think that this is a bit of both: Sansa’s playing the game now, and she’s got to play it properly to achieve her goal. That is what I think the source of the adrenaline is this time: and it’s about time! And I think that we’ll see this on the show, too. It’s game time, and Sansa’s going to show some pre-game jitters. (“Now coming in to play goalkeep… Sansa Stark!”)
Indeed: after all, what does Winterfell have to do with that “whore” from Rosegarden? And why would the Bolton’s possibly consider ending an alliance with the Lannisters? Isn’t that everyone’s dream alliance?!?!? (Unless they are foolish traitors, in which case they will be crushed.)
Actually, Cersei would make a great Dalek.
Wimsey,
I’d like to believe she’s now playing the game, I really would, but she’s pretty much doing the exact same thing in Winterfell now as she was doing in King’s Landing! Her development has been painfully slow. For her to suddenly transform into someone capable of manipulating an intelligent psychopath like Ramsay and his father who’s one of the most cunning men in Westeros is a ridiculous leap! I think Sansa will get some payback somehow (especially if Ramsay has his wicked way with her) but by playing the game? I can’t see it.
Marrying for adjacency to power is playing the game. Cersei taught her that. Remember, Ramsey is not going to have any clue that this is what she is doing: he’s just too pyschopathic to do that. Roose might get a clue: but he also might have bigger issues involving Stannis and northern insurgents that distract him from this. He, too, might be disadvantaged by a little knowledge: Roose might have learned about “Barbie Doll” Sansa from Catelyn and Robb; the possibility of a Boudica instead will catch him off-guard.
Moreover, there is the Brienne wild-card Her “Patron Saint of Vows to the Dead” storyline almost certainly will be relevant. I’m intrigued: although the plot is very different, I expect that the story might be similar to what we see in Winter where Sansa is concerned.
Wimsey,
Ah but that’s not her playing the game. It’s Littlefinger using her as a pawn! Ramsay may be a psycho but he isn’t stupid. This guy isn’t Joffrey, he’s very scheming and calculating (as we may see if he offs his new brother before he even exists!). Sansa learnt nothing from Cersei or Marg as she hasn’t used her sexuality at all. All her part in Littlefingers ridiculous plan at Winterfell ( although I’m enjoying the stuff going on the reasoning for her being there is still non-sensical to me and a lot of others) has involved so far is her sulking around the dinner table. She’s more Boo-hoo-dica than a warrior princess at this point! Although it would be more intersting if she wasn’t all she seems to be is a figurehead for the Northern cause at the moment. Her name is more important than any sort of skill or ability she brings to the table…unless the Boltons Achille’s heel is an allergy to lemon cakes, crochet and general feebleness! 😛
Brienne has been awful since she left Jaime for me. Hope she gets meaningfully involved in the plot as her charisma and lack of chemistry with Pod isn’t making her easy watching. If she kills Stannis , I swear…
Grantland? Not heard of them. And which is better? Grantland?