The end of the year is fast approaching and the Best of 2015 lists are in … and Game of Thrones is on, well, some of them. In other news, Ramsay Bolton has been officially crowned the Actual Worst Character on Television, in case that was ever in question.
2015 was a roller coaster year for Game of Thrones. On the one hand, it finally won the Emmy for Outstanding Drama Series. On the other hand, season 5 was so controversial that Sen. Claire McCaskill quit the show on Twitter and The Mary Sue stopped covering Game of Thrones altogether. So, with the year now in review, it shouldn’t be terribly surprising that Game of Thrones failed to make it onto as many Best of 2015 lists as it has in previous years … but it still made a few.
Rolling Stone included in on its 25 Best TV Shows of 2015 list … albeit down at #20 accompanied by a description that’s more scathing than complimentary.
Game of Thrones also topped both IMDB’s Top 10 TV Shows list and Rotten Tomatoes’ Top Sci Fi/Horror/Fantasy list.
Meanwhile, after a month of voting, The Atlantic has declared Ramsay Bolton the “actual worst” character on television.
To clarify, the term “worst,” in this context, refers to the unpleasant nature of the character, not the quality of the writing. As @BeautyBrienne put it:
Ramsay, as a character, is fascinating. Ramsay as a person deserves to be run over by a combine harvester. https://t.co/VPHB7NGaNQ
— Brienne of Tarth (@BeautyBrienne) November 13, 2015
HODOR.
1st.
And it just getting worse and worse if he really kills
I can imagine Iwan Rheon playing Joker in the future DC movies.
I’m proud. #Flayboypride
while it’s great to win awards and accolades I think the only see way to judge a TV show is by the number of people who watch it. If there are 10 million watching GOT ( and probably another ten million watching illegally) does It matter what critics write anymore? we as an audience are not being fooled by bad reviews ( the rolling stone guy obviously hated shireens death) we watch it because of episodes like the rains of castermere and hardhome which in my opinion are some of the greatest TV ever made.
I’m here full time now 🙂
Iwan Rheon is so funny in “Vicious!” I’d never seen him in anything other than GoT until this old style sitcom. Hopefully “Ash” will outlive Ramsay by a few seasons.
I’d agree with that title for Ramsay, though not in the way that they mean. He’s so one-note and overused by now that he’s boring.
To Iwan Rheon: uh, congratulations, I guess? 🙂
Awesome! But how did you escape out of Russia? 😉
Fargo is the best show I’ve watched this year, though I admit that I don’t watch many. I gave up on ‘The Americans’ a couple episodes into season 3. Need to watch ‘Better Call Saul’ and ‘Mr.Robot’. I’m not big on super hero shows, but may give ‘Jessica Jones’ a shot.
I remember you!
Welcome. 🙂
Bollocks. How many shows do they watch?
Great picture choice!
Can’t take a list seriously that puts “Mr. Robot” at #1. It’s plotting for idiots. I called the big twist 3 minutes into the first episode… and the second twist at the end of episode 3. There’s nothing brilliant about the show. It’s well acted, though. I’ll give it that.
And why we should care that Claire McCaskill quit the show? LoL
It is pointless to put Emmy awards and anonymous opinion(I’m not from USA) on the same level.
And that is a lot coming from someone that is meant as a supporting character. It has become rather predictable, I agree.
Iwan, made me scared of Ramsey. Love him in the role.
Agree tough, now that Joff’s dead he is the only character left, that is truly evil. No ulterior motive, no schemes, just pure evil.
Lol I don’t even find Ramsay interesting. He’s a boring one note character. Very irritating.
Cersei, Tywin and Littlefinger are the most interesting villains in GOT/ASOIAF.
mau,
I’d guess that mention and the mention of The Mary Sue was a nod to the people who lost their minds over the Sansa scene. I’ll give it to the Mary Sue, though…I’d never even heard of that site until they went off the deep-end over that scene. So, if nothing else, their extreme, imo, reaction made a lot more people aware the site existed.
Laura,
I just grew bored with it. It’s a concept that shouldn’t last for more than 3 or 4 seasons. They were next door neighbors and friends with an FBI agent who can’t seem to recognize the resemblance of them to the sketch artist pictures of suspects he is actively pursuing? Really? Plus, I’m not big on child characters taking up large chunks of screentime, outside of Sally Draper and several GOT characters. I started to get a Dana Brody vibe from the daughter character.
mau,
And why we should care that Claire McCaskill quit the show?
Yes, as a non-US person, it means nothing to me. I would also be happy to never hear about themarysue’s grandstanding ever again. As a feminist, and a nerd, I used to really enjoy that website. But over the last few years it’s just become really difficult to wade through anime recaps and misdirected outrage posts to find the good stuff – which is still there (they do have thought-provoking articles on gender and diversity in hollywood/sci-fi etc). The Game of Thrones thing was the last straw for me, and I was sad to leave that place. They can do what they like – it’s their website, of course – but it felt really insincere.
Edit:
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Didn’t see your comment before I posted mine, but yeah, I think that was their aim. Very disappointing.
I actually find the actor’s portrayal of the character sadly lacking. He really is vile and I agree he’s one of the worst sickos there is, but Iwan Rheon gives a fairly average performance for me. He doesn’t scare me or convince me that he’s the evil psycho he’s trying to be at all. I’d be happy to see Ramsay killed off on two counts……one because he thoroughly deserves it and two because Iwan isn’t very good at being Ramsay. Sorry.
Jack Bauer 24,
Good to see you here, Jack. I look forward to your positively uplifting posts. 🙂
Gatehouse Ami,
If you can find it, you should watch ‘Misfits’, as Iwan Rheon as Simon is my favourite in that show. I constantly have to remind myself of how much I adore Simon whenever Ramsay does something disgusting and horrific.
I think that Petra was one of them, and it seems that her personal opinion is really affecting every article she has written about S5.
I’ll bet you have some wonderful stories to tell about your absence. I dearly want to hear them.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
You really need to watch “Mr Robot”. I am encouraging all friends and family to see this great show!
mau,
Now that you mention it, I do recall Petra being quite critical of the scene, but to me there is a big difference between being critical, even very critical, and going off the deep-end. I may not have agreed with her view, but I do remember thinking she argued it pretty well, and I’m the type who when I start to detect what I would categorize as histrionics in an argument, I pretty much summarily dismiss the whole argument. In other words, I don’t recall feeling like she was one who went off the deep-end.
I guess it’s my age, the only shows I can get into in the present age or Game of Thrones,
The Man in the High Castle, Fargo and the screwball Da Vinci’s Demons. Nothing on regular network TV.
Even the good stuff looks Been There Done That.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
She wasn’t.
To be fair, show’s Ramsay is a lot more restrained than the one in the books. George’s Ramsay is way more over the top, to the point he’d be a cartoon in the show.
He’s fairly one-note to be sure, but Iwan Rheon makes it work.
As for Mr. Robot: hahahaha.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I had forgotten about that bunch. The Mary Sue’s people are a joke.
Halfman,
I liked him in season’s 3 and 4, but in season 5, they over did it a bit. I think a little less Ramsay and more Roose would have been better.
Not surprising. We’re in full “GoT Backlash” mode, and I don’t think it’s particularly deserved. TV critics champion less popular, more niche TV shows over behemoths, everybody loves an underdog.
Jack Bauer 24,
What happened Jack? Were you banned from that awful site as well?
Yep. The admin there is a complete nut job…but you already know that lol. I’m looking forward to being back here.
Jack Bauer 24,
The return of the prodigal son. Listen, if you want to give some deets, there are others who have stories to tell about that admin. She banned me for elephant jokes.
Oh, on topic: congrats whoever for the whatsit.
I just don’t get the love for Iwan Rheon’s portrayal of Ramsay, I find it OTT and very cartoon’ish 99% of the time. Jack Gleeson or Harry Lloyd’s performances felt more believable to me.
Not surprised by the lack of love for S5 of GOT in these lists, the reaction was divisive to say the least. And to be honest Fargo is making everything else on TV look rather mediocre at the moment.
Isn’t he a sweetheart on Vicious? I’ve mentioned that before, with praise for Iwan’s acting ability on both shows, usually just before a tirade of disgust over something Ramsay had done/said/stood for/or was suspected of planning to do in the very near future.
Someone said upthread they thought he was a little over-used. Maybe it’s because he is so well-written as Ramsay, that there is no doubt now as to how evil and nefarious he’s going to be. There’s not a shred of speculation left regarding whether he’ll choose to do something rotten and heinous, or whether he’ll coldly let some things slide, as Roose tends to do. We know without a doubt he’ll do the most awful thing; no benevolent thought has ever crossed his mind.
So, congrats Iwan, on being declared the best of the “Worst.”
I don’t want to derail this thread, but I’ll admit my curiosity is peaked.
Hahahaha…as incorrigible as always.
Thronetender,
I think part of the challenge of portraying a character like Ramsay is there is almost no opportunity for him to show a shred of humanity. Yes, there was his desire to please his father enough to legitimize him as a Bolton. He got that, though. The only other moment which reflected any sort of humanity in him was when Walda said she was pregnant.
Fargo is good, but The Leftovers Season 2 is better.
very nicely put, NWQ.
Morgoth,
Agree with what you said about Ramsey. He’s definatly not a complex character, you could go a bit on how he tries to prove to his father that he is worthy of him, but not much else.
Ramsey is not a character I ”like”, but I just love the way Iwan plays him. From the crazy eyes too the luagh, the anger when Roose tells him Walda is pregnant,..etc. Iwan’s a great actor trough and trough.
Also one of the best moments, is when Roose makes him a Bolton. He looks so happy. In that moment he is just a little boy who wants his father to be proud of him. Of course he goes back to crazy madman in the next scene but that scene made me feel a bit sad for him and that is thanks too Iwan, who was able too make Ramsey a lot more human then he is in the books.
Jack Bauer 24,
Hmm I’ll agree that the second season has been a big improvement. I just recently watched the episode that was centered around Meg, that was fantastic.
Fargo’s just been consistent quality from start to finish for me, each episode has gold sprinkled throughout them.
The Leftovers is the best series on television, hands down.
Al Swearengen,
I agree with u about iwan (miss casted pantomime villian) but why do u care what critics think now?
When she threw out that line to Tommy about wanting to get him pregnant….wow. Fml, that shit was EVERYTHING! Meg is most definitely the “villain” I root for. *Bows down*
Moles town bastard,
I don’t, I was just saying I am not surprised because S5 wasn’t universally loved like the previous seasons were.
And those critics can get bent, White Hot American Summer was complete trash.
GeekFurious,
Mr. Robot is a show about hacking were the show runners actually try to show real hacking. And they do a very good job at it. Every hack on the show is possible (but sometimes streamlined for TV of course). that a alone makes it great for me, None of that “Navy-CIS lets-type-togather-on-the-keyboard-so-we-can-hack-faster-bullshit.”
Mr. Robot has been on my end-o’-year-break watch-list, but it sounds like I may have to add The Leftovers to it, too. I may even watch the Leftovers before Mr. Robot simply because I get HBO. It looks like one has to pay for episodes of Mr. Robot, at this point. 🙁
Big fan of Iwan’s acting on GoT. Ramsay deserves the title of worst character.
Jack Bauer 24,
Hey, I remember you too! Didn’t read the books and a big fan of D&D. Linda finally banned you then? LOL I’d have thought she is too busy fixing the layout of AFOIAF. Never mind the Lindas of the world. They are few and far between thankfully. We give them far too much importance.
RosanaZugey,
There seems to be such a dramatic split on the Leftovers opinions. I haven’t seen it yet. I do enjoy Fargo something fierce though which is funny considering I was not blown away by the movie. I’m not sure why that is. Probably because of the cast more than anything. Martin Freeman and Billy BoB Thorton kill it (I’m on first season)
Rory McCann alert! At German ComicCon with Nathalie Emmanuel! 🙂 🙂 🙂
http://rorymccann.tumblr.com/post/134608978609
That’s fair enough Al. If u want to watch a class A show watch the hunt on the BBC best Attenborough show ever trust me
Yes, she is quite the lunatic
I hate Ramsay, grrr
Thronetender,
Thanks!
TormundsWoman,
That’s one of the many reasons I love this site. There are a variety of opinions and posters here…Sullied, Unsullied, and somewhere in between…but they all seem to be welcomed. Sure, there will be some pretty heated debates, but they rarely devolve into the extreme condescension and personal attacks which seem so prevalent elsewhere.
A guy I work with said the same exact thing; he didn’t like the movie, but the tv series is the, “best show on television” in his opinion. He demands I start watching it so we can discuss. I’ll probably end up caving and watching it, but for now, all my energies are wrapped up in…Leftovers. 😉
Remember the good ol’ days when we thought nobody could be worse than Joffrey?
Yes, just as with his father.
Jack Bauer 24,
Any drama you have somewhere else, leave it there please.
That goes for everyone. Don’t bring your drama here.
Sue the Fury,
I hear ya. But I am an intensely curious and am trying to lure Jack offsite so as not to muck up your forum. Feel free to delete this post (but wait until tomorrow as you love me).
It’s the silly season. No show. No books.
This was a really good year for television.
My top shows of the year are, in no order at all.
Game of Thrones
Fargo
and better call Saul
all this talk about the Left overs is making me want to watch both seasons XD looks like its really a good show since everyone is praising it so much.
What other sites are you on?
Jack Bauer 24,
Everywhere! There is iswintercoming.com and fleabottom.net
Both have folks that are eager to talk to you without judging.
Just my two cents, for what it’s worth. Probably about two cents.
I think Iwan does an excellent job in portraying a psychopath. Those viewers looking for humanity in him will be looking for a loooooong time, IMO. If he seems “cartoonish” or like a “caricature”, I would say that is deliberate. We’re not supposed to like him, relate to him, or want anything for him other than his demise. He’s inhuman because his character is written as being inhuman.
That was a way you could once tell between the Sullied and Unsullied. Also, I think people who feel Ramsay has plumbed the deepest depths may be shocked by the depravity of Euron, if he’s played close to how the books portray him. He’s as disgusting as Ramsay and much more calculating.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Mr. Robot is totally worth it, despite the silly name. There is one twist you’ll have totally figured out (and you were supposed to have figured it out) and another, which is revealed sooner, where you will go WHAT THE FUCK?
I might have missed this, but Jessica Jones is also good on NetFlix. Sense8 too. Any recommendations for Bloodlines?
As far as the Sansa rape and websites and Claire McCaskill go, you’re right, there were people who criticized eloquently and then there were others who teetered on the brink of insanity and then several, very vocal people, who jumped off the brink into the abyss. But I also saw some really well-reasoned, well-argued write-ups on both sides. They just got hidden in the avalanche of crazy.
Maybe by the end of next season, perspective will have taken hold and there can be more respectful discourse about it.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Thanks for the thoughtful response. The funny thing is, though, that I’m actually not against the Unbent Unbowed Unbroken scene. I think I might have given that impression because I contribute to publications that were critical of the scene so I tend to write about it assuming outrage on the part of the reader, taking a sort of “before you get upset, consider this …” approach. Now I’m thinking I may have over done it 🙂
Tee hee hee. The demise of Ramsay Bolton is going to be amazing!
Pigeon,
Keeping hope alive! 😀
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
People are ridiculous.
Sansa Stark’s experience with Ramsay isn’t ANYWHERE near the top 10 worst suffering in the show, let alone ALL shows.
She’s literally feets away from someone who had it a thousand time worse than her ( Theon ). Yet no one cares about Theon, but “marital rape”? Now he’s worse than Hitler.
People just don’t think.
The ONLY thing that Ramsay does to Sansa that Eddard didn’t do to Catelyn, is to beat her.
Catelyn didn’t find Eddard attractive, she didn’t want to marry him, she didn’t even think she would marry him ( was supposed to be his more attractive and wilder brother Brandon ), she just went with it because her father said so. And EVENTUALLY it turned to love, but it started the exact same way, minus the beatings.
Now, beating your wife certainly isn’t right, but is this really such a bad thing to happen – in comparison – in the GoT universe?
I mean if you’re teleported in that world and you witness some guy being poured molten gold on the face, another one being castrated and tortured for years until he’s no more than a tamed pet, people killed every other day for trying to do the right thing, people killed by their ennemies, by their “allies”, by their family…
Whores being torture-killed for amusement, people being eaten by dragons or cannibals, people watching the love of their life getting murdred in front of them while they watch powerless to stop it….
HOLY SHIT.
If the worst thing that ever happens to you in that universe is “marrying someone you don’t like and getting beat up”, you’re gonna pray the gods every single day.
Is it terrible? Yes, it is.
Is it terrible on the “Game of thrones scale of terribleness”?
No. It’s maybe a 2 out of 10.
Maybe.
Yay! for Game of Thrones to be in Top 10 lists 🙂 I love Awards Season and everything that comes with it…Being a super fan of LOTR, I remember being uber super happy every time each movie of the trilogy made more and more Critic´s Top 10 lists 🙂 🙂 🙂
My comments don´t come up 🙁
Because you touch yourself at night.
Episode 6, unsurprisingly, garnered a 58% on RT, with every other episode at 98%-100%. Yep, sounds about right.
Moles town bastard,
Dear Lord did anyone like it?
Eh, I wouldn’t count on it. The internet loves hyperbole and drama, and we’ll just keep reading the usual responses: “ARGH F*CK THIS SHOW, I QUIT, THEY RUINED IT, CHARACTER ASSASSINATION, BLAHBLAH”. Then they’ll tune in next week to keep ranting.
As for Mr. Robot, I really can’t take seriously its cartoonish cast and names. There’s the cliché obese, geeky guy with glasses. The token black guy. The lock-picking gal with no computer skills whatsoever. The muslim who’s there for “allahu akbar” jokes.
“Mr. Robot”, “Evil Corp”. Smh.
I mean, it -does- get lots of stuff right, and it’s not a horrible show by any means, but seriously…
Bah! I wrote a response to NWQ about why The Leftovers is awesome, and it never posted. Sucks to that. I wanted to ‘explain’ why I felt the show is praiseworthy. Humph. Will have to try remember what I said so I can write it again.
Anywho. back to GoT…
I think Iwan plays Ramsay beautifully. Ramsay as a character (in both book and show) is despicable in and of himself, but I think Iwan brings a lot of subtle power to his performance that really makes him someone to be both feared and despised. For instance, go back and watch the scene between him and Sansa in “The Gift” (the whole, “You’re a bastard” scene). When I first watched that scene, I was initially impressed with Sophie’s performance because she genuinely looked disgusted every time he touched her (great reminder of the previous episode’s “SCENE”). But when I watched it again, I couldn’t help but think Iwan knocked it out of the park as well. Not only was his reaction to her calling him a bastard priceless…but check out the way he looks at her…his EYES…after he kisses her on the cheek and sends her back inside. He looks at her with straight fury and hatred…and I don’t know about you guys, but that’s some remarkable acting, in my opinion. Ramsay works because Iwan makes him work. His performance of that character is emotion provoking. You fear for other characters when they’re with him (i.e. Theon and Sansa), and you just hate him in general. He’s a ‘villain’ in the true sense of the word. So, yeah, bravo to Iwan/Ramsay for being the biggest SOB on the small screen. Very well deserved.
So relieved to hear that I’m not the only one unimpressed with Iwan Rheon’s characterization! It’s not a popular opinion, it seems, so I’ve mostly kept it to myself.
Book Ramsay to me is so much more chilling on account of his lack of affect – like a young version of Roose, only not nearly as smart and strategic. In trying to ’round out’ the character by making him goofy and zany, the actor just makes him seem campy, in my view – like a 007 villain, or Jack Nicholson doing his The Shining schtick. They should give him a curly moustache to twirl while he goes ‘Nyah-hah-hah!’ and ties Sansa to the railroad track. (Maybe by the time ADoS comes out, railroads will have been invented?)
That being said, it still seems appropriate to dub Ramsay the Worst Character on TV. I thought so even when Joffrey was still alive.
*Chokes on her water* *Coughs* Ack! Good Lord! I was desperately trying not to go down the rape scene discussion…but your comment….
*Breathes*
*Counts to 10*
*Tells herself to not do it*
*Resists*
*Resists*
*Resists*
…….
*Changes the subject*
So anyways!!!! Tell me what you think, people. What say you guys that the ‘theme’ of this season is going to be? Last season, I felt like the theme was going to revolve around ‘consequences’ and the payment for decisions made/rendered. I wasn’t too far off, as I think last season did involve a lot of chickens coming home to roost (so to speak). Methinks the overall theme for this season is going is center on the questions of, “Who are you,” or “Who do you want to be?” I think this season is going to be a clarification season in which ALL of them decide who they are and what they want.
Jon- Is he a “Man of the Night’s Watch”, or is he a Stark (or Targaryen)? What does Jon want? Does he want Winterfell (like he had always dreamed) or does he want to go back to the Wall and “save” the 7K’s?
Daenerys- Who are you, woman? Are you a conqueror as Aegon was, or are you a ‘Mad King’ like your father was (and by Mad King I mean a terrible ruler…not the crazy part)? Are you going to live up to your House words of “FIRE AND BLOOD” or are you going to squirm like a fragile little girl at the very thought of violence and the site of blood? Who are you? What do you want?
Arya- Are you, “Arya Stark of Winterfell”, Lord Eddard Stark’s youngest daughter and sister to Sansa, Bran, Rickon, and Jon….or are you a FM? Who are you kid? And what do you want?
Jaime- Who are YOU man? Clarify it for me, season 6. Are you a man of honor…an oath keeper, or have you resigned yourself to being Cersei’s ‘pet’ until you breathe your last?
Sansa- Oh, my girl. Of ALL the characters, this is the one I want clarification on the MOST. Who are you, and what do you want? You’ve been everything under the sun (i.e. Lady Lannister, Alyne Stone, SweetRobin’s betrothed, Littlefinger’s pawn, Lady Bolton), except for who you really are. Are you “Sansa Stark of Winterfell” or are you a perpetual victim and pawn? Do you want to be the Queen (as you stated in season 1, episode 1), or not? Do you want Winterfell, or are you going to let House Bolton control your House and your Kingdom (the North)? Clarify it for me! Because this peep NEEDS TO KNOW!
Take any character and their storyline (i.e. Tyron, Jorah, Cersei, etc.), and I believe the same questions/themes arise; who are they and what do they want? That’s my vote for what the ‘theme’ of this season is going to be. But what say you all? What do you guys think will be the theme?
Come to think of it, Black Jack Randall from Outlander is arguably more revolting than Ramsay by a hair…but not nearly as many people watch that show.
Cumsprite,
haha!! 😉
Oh! and I watch The Leftovers! Quite intriguing
aiad,
While I agree that Sansa’s wedding night shouldn’t rank too high in the GOT horriblemeter I think you are grossly misunderstanding the events of that night if you think it didn’t differ radically from Catelyn’s one.
First, Cat was older than Sansa and was better prepared for that. Remember that she reminiscences during the Red Wedding of her “disrobing rite”, how she answered the rowdy japes addressed to her with even rowdier ones. Clearly, she was more mature than Sansa and less frightened.
Then, although we had no description of how the things went, knowing Eddard’s nature we can safely assume that a)he didn’t tore her bride dress, b) he didn’t throw her to the bed and treated her like a piece of meat, having his way with no foreplay, no consideration, no sweet talk and no tenderness whatsoever.
And finally, we have that little, bitty, tiny detail of having the whole procedure watched by the kid she grew up with. Pretty sure Eddard didn’t do that on wedding night either.
LMFAO! That was priceless.
Firannion,
Seriously, the book one is chilling but the show one is campy and moustache-twirling?
We must have read/watched a different book/show! :p
I know this is way off topic and I apologize, but does anyone know how long game of thrones have spent filming the battle of the bastards ?
also does anyone recommend The leftovers ?
So, we’re going to have 10 episodes that don’t build upon any previously established storylines, character development, or plots?
Matthew The Dragon knight,
Matt, I don’t have a source handy, and can’t recall where I read it, but I want to say it was 3 weeks. Sorry. Totally not helpful. I know it was an extended shoot. I’m trying to remember when we first heard about it to when the wrap party instagramming came out. And dammit, not one of those extras has leaked. They must hypnotize them to forget. You’d think one would have gotten drunk and talkative by now.
Haven’t seen The Leftovers.
Such an amazing season. Can’t see why it came off best of 2015 lists anywhere
And good riddance to anyone who dropped the show or stopped covering it blabla!
RosanaZugey,
Those were the show creators words. My editor screen wouldn’t let me change the italics so maybe it read funny?
You asked an opinion about whether the season will have a “theme” and I don’t think it will. Each has their own journey and it ebbs and flows against others. Then I remembered this interview with that quote and it seemed just the right occasion to share that the showrunners apparently feel the same way. That’s it 🙂
They’ve hired a team of Obliviators from the Ministry of Magic, clearly.
Oh, yeah, I know those were D&D’s words. I recall that interview. I suppose I’m just perplexed about how there wouldn’t be a general ‘theme’ running through all of these storylines (either stated or implied). Maybe I’m using “theme” incorrectly, but my general question kind of revolves around where the show is going to take us this season in each character’s storyline. I think they’re running out of time to continue being ambiguous and vague, and now’s the time for clarification regarding each individual’s purpose in the story. If ever there was a time to set the characters up for their final endgames, I’m going to bet that this is the season to do it in.
Yes! I most definitely recommend The Leftovers. Granted, I’m like a Leftovers groupie, so my opinion is heavily biased, but I feel like it’s at least worth giving a chance. It’s a ‘heavy’ show. It’s not the kind of thing you watch for entertainment, or to escape from reality for a while, so, be cognizant of that. But in my opinion, that’s the brilliance of the show. It asks “big” questions and never gives you the answers, but it’s masterful in its ability to tie all of the pieces together, and it’s absolutely poetic in its exploration of the human condition. Every character is in conflict with themselves as much as they are with the people around them, and I tell you, it makes for extraordinary television. Plus, the writing is on a whole other level.
So, yeah, most definitely, give it a chance. Season 2 is better than Season 1 (in my opinion), so, if you start from S1…stick it out. It’ll get less ‘dark’ in S2.
HotPinkLipstick,
3 weeks ? Thanks for responding, no worries. Because if I recall the battle of the bastards filmed longer then hard home and the battle at the wall. But really, than you very much 🙂
RosanaZugey,
Sounds like a very amazing show, I’ll give it a try when Fargo season 2 is over. Good shows are hard to come by.
Ok, let me make sure I understand, Ramsay Bolton, an entirely fictional character, is the worst character on television? Seriously, no one on Fox News counts in the category of worst fictional villain? Oh, I’m sorry, the voting was limited to medieval villainy. My bad.
RosanaZugey,
I like your perspective. As I noted a few days ago, now that GoT is off-book (unless something gets published between now and, oh say Easter 2020, GoT is now just another expensive prime time soap with blood and fire as well as the sudsy stuff. The theme of identity should certainly be a good driver. I am very intrigued about what will happen with the Faith Militant who are by now Cersei Lannister’s forsworn enemies. I doubt that the rest of the nobles in Westeros are thinking of the FM in good terms either. It would make sense for personal and clan identity to become key because Season 7 is most likely going to be all about “winter” and all that that entails. Cue the White Walkers.
Phil Necro,
I hope he’s not one who gets killed. Who would be our POV there?
Petra Halbur,
Totally reasonable way to approach a controversial topic, and even if you were of the opinion that it (UUU) was offensive and awful, that’s cool. I just wasn’t a fan of how that particular website handled it. I didn’t engage in any discussions, just read the vitriol sadly and deleted the site from my bookmarks. For what it’s worth, I enjoy your posts!
On topic: that Atlantic list is an interesting mix of “characters that are truly evil/awful” like Ramsay/Joffrey and Hannibal, “characters that are comedically shitty” (like the ones from Veep, P&R and Broad City) and “characters that suck because they’re boring/lame” – (like Lord Crawley or Carrie from Homeland). I find it a bit odd they mixed them up together, as it kind of makes the whole list meaningless. But if it was the first category, I definitely agree that Ramsay should be number one.
P.S. if anyone feels like taking a pleasant side trip on the Atlantic website, the photo essay on Argentina’s Los Glaciares National Park is gorgeous.
Boojam,
I’m not a big TV watcher either. I usually come by things late as well. Got into Survivor the last few years (even though it’s been out for like 15) but this season is boring. I watch Hotel Impossible and Idiot abroad when they’re available. I don’t have the patience to sit through much unless it’s epic, particularly of the Medieval or costume drama variety. Binge watched the first seasons of GOT and it was heaven. It was nice to actually find something that holds my interest.
RosanaZugey,
As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that the theme will be ‘closing off outstanding issues and moving on to Act 3’. At the end of the season, we’ll be done with Meereen, the Dothraki, Braavos, the Boltons, the Wall, some visions and explanations we’ve been due for a long time (Tower of Joy); Cersei and Jaime will be done with each other.
And while we don’t know how King’s Landing ends for Cersei, one certainly hopes that she’ll close some things, too. Preferably by killing all the Tyrells and the High Sparrow before she moves on to the war with Dorne in S7. I’m not sure if I’ll manage another season of Marge.
Then, I hope S7 will have Dany confronting Euron, Cersei Dorne, Sansa Littlefinger and Arya the Freys; and then Jaime Cersei and the Hound the Mountain. S8 should just have the survivors dealing with the supernatural stuff, and it should be *short*.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
I recommend it. It’s really great and unique, you just have to get over the admittedly silly premise. The editing, directing, acting, soundtrack and dialogue are all top notch.
Ygritte,
Jon or Melisandre outside.
And in Winterfell…i have no idea.
I thought Ollie replaced Ramsay as the worst character in TV??? O_o
I think this is reasonable and I too expect this season to deal with all outstanding issues and to finally place all the pieces in position for the endgame. In this sense, Seasons 1-3 were Act I, primarily dealing with the War of the Five Kings, Seasons 4-6 were/are/will be Act II, a transitory period that ties any loose ends resulting from Wot5K, Essosi storylines, the Wall, etc, and establishes a new status quo, leaving the last two seasons to dive headlong into Act III.
Morgoth,
Completly agree, in the books he is just way too over the top. I simply can’t take him seriously. If anything it is in the books where he is a ”cartoon” villian.
Love what Iwan did with the character. He still portrais Ramsey as a simple mad man (I would argue this tough, as they made Ramsey quite smarter then he is in the books, wich I like very much) but there is also a bit of humanity there.
Especially in his relationship with his father. When he is with Roose he looks like a little boy trying to make his father proud of him.
Like the scene where Roose tells him of his mother, he actoully looks hurt at what Roose tells him but then when Roose says that he is his son, he looks so damn happy/proud.
That’s what I love about the way Iwan acts Ramsey.
I haven’t seen 22 of those 25 TV shows, so I can’t compare.
Congratulations to Iwan Rheon (if you consider being the Actual Worst Character on Television an award), a wonderful and underappreciated performer. I hope he gets cast as Maximus in the Inhumans movie.
The author of the rolling stones article, in his GOT analysis, says Tyrion, Arya and Danaerys saved the season. Where as for me, Tyrion and Arya were in the bottom 3 in terms of storyline. I guess this list is just one person’s opinion. However I agree about Mr. Robot, I loved the 1st season. Also Fargo. I tried watching Empire, watched a couple of episodes of the second season, it was so bad I gave up. Yet its at no. 6! I really liked Narcos too, but it isn’t included.
Mihnea,
+1 vote for preferring ShowRamsay to BookRamsay.
BookRamsay to me just came across as a cartoonish thug. ShowRamsay is a more complex psychopath.
I wasn’t sure initially how Iwan Rheon would go, as he’s nothing like I pictured Ramsay. But I liked Misfits a lot, so I was intrigued to see where it would go.
If I was going to fancast Ramsay without having seen the last few seasons of GoT, I might have gone for someone like Jesse Plemons (Todd from Breaking Bad) who has the dead-behind-the-eyes look.
Mr Fixit,
One interesting thing is that besides Ned’s beheading, Jaime losing his hand and scenes from the Red Wedding, everything in the trailer was from seasons 4-5. The story has really moved on since season 3!
Moles town bastard,
I completely agree, game of thrones is top quality in every aspect of the show . it breaks barriers, not afraid to take risks. You can see that everyone involved in the show from shop boy to main character puts 100% into it , actors, extras, CGI all top notch, sure the dragons are the best looking I’ve ever seen, no movie comes close to having that quality of dragon. So yes we don’t need any critic telling us how good or bad our show is.
Pigeon,
Eire
Aurane waters,
I think you can put walder Frey in that list also, sick bastard having 14 year old wives, would stab anyone in the back and looks evil
Halfman,
I really think season 6 is his time by the looks of things there will be a battle at winterfell actually looks certain, and I reckon Jon will try get him and Jon slips up and falls maybe and Ramsey about to kill him and theon pops up and guts him, he will get his revenge, leaving Jon with a moral dilemma whether to kill him for sacking winterfell or spare him for saving his life, I don’t know maybe sounds plausible.
Young Dragon,
True I don’t think we see enough of roose as he is ruthless but as soon as Ramsey got legitimized he was bound to be more abrasive and bold
Moles town bastard,
Love that man making watching TV as relaxing as can be since I was a kid ,hopefully I can stream it online can’t get BBC here in Texas i don’t think
Riverhawk,
Considering everybody on Fox News could be considered as one entity, it would be too much of an overkill lol.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yes I totally agree, I’m only new to this site about a week, I absolutely love it, thankfully I found it as I don’t have to be googling… Game of thrones season 6 latest news 10 times a day anymore ,it’s very informative, everyone has great theories and articulate points , everyone is respectful to each others opinions i like that and you get to use your imagination without being laughed at, so just wanted to thank everyone for letting me slide right in
Pigeon,
Thanks for letting us know! I’m a bit worried about the Hound’s presence in season 6. I want him so much to come back.
you snow nothing,
I fully agree with you. And I’d like to add that, if Iwan’s Ramsay made us laugh, it’s not because we sympathize or find him human, but because we need that relief from sheer horror. It’s like the people who burst into laughter at funerals.
Firannion,
I watch it and I like it. It’s very interesting to see Tobias play two characters so different. And about the horror master, I think he’s Randall. Randall torturing was much harder for me to watch than Ramsay. Maybe it’s also because Randall was torturing a real hero, while, at least at first, I considered Theon deserved to be punished for what he had done to the Starks. And remember, he didn’t plan to spare Bran’s and Rickon’s lives.
I think of Ramsay as a one note, garden variety psycho. Tywin, Roose, Littlefinger, Varys are characters I love reading about, but would want shot or imprisoned in real life.
RosanaZugey,
Judibatt,
I really liked what you said about a general theme, it was well thought of, now maybe the writers don’t intentionally create a theme but after watching 10 episodes maybe you can see a theme from your own interpretation, but by the looks of things in previous seasons alot of episodes had individual themes to me, that involved numerous characters. Of course the storylines will move forward and dig deeper, but it makes alot of sense that eventually Jaime must choose between cersei and the good of the realm, we already see that arya needs to choose who she is… Arya Stark or nobody, Jon must choose is he still a boy or will he choose to be the man he’s destined to be. So what I’m trying to say is maybe the theme is not laid out as a general theme for the season but choice of who alot of characters are and who they will become will be a big part of the show maybe spread out over the next 2 seasons or whatever is left. Very exciting stuff all the same, thanks for that.
I really like Iwan on GOT. He’s cartoonish in the books too, but since it’s show let’s hate on this. Because other than that I can’t quite find a logic to hate him. They improve him from the books. Although, this 20 good men stuff was a bit over the top. I can see him surviving Snowbowl.
I guess congrats to Iwan?
Agree with those who love Fargo and The Americans. I absolutely love GOT with all my heart, but I don’t believe it has the same thematic depth as those series, or others in the pantheon of “today’s golden age of TV” like Mad Men, the Sopranos, Deadwood, or the Wire.
It’s an amazingly good show, definitely one of the best on TV. That said, even D&D said that they consciously reject trying to make meaningful themes throughout the episodes, right? I can’t remember where I read it but it was around the time of the “Chaos Is A Laddah” episode. I thought that was a sad admission on their part, especially considering the books aspire to (and achieve IMO) a more majestic level, on a par with Tolkien.
As regard Ramsey, Iwan Rheon has never done it for me. He’s too young, and too small, he’s not physically formidable at all, and more jokey/crayzee than threatening. As a result I don’t believe him for a second as a man who would flay anyone. In his scenes with Theon I was bored out of my mind the whole time, not only because of the repetition but also because he just isn’t frightening. I think the Theon of S1 could kick his ass if he wasn’t tied down. His whole arc with Reek therefore has been me fast-forwarding through his scenes and waiting patiently for him to be killed….worst “villain” on the show. Roose, Tywin, even the Hound before they tried to make him sympathetic, the Mountain, just about anyone is scarier than Ramsey!
The fact that we really care about the torture victim in Outlander and have been primed to dislike the one in GoT is certainly part of it. But I think that another piece of the revulsion we feel for Randall is how eroticized his sadism is, which in a sense makes him a creepier and more realistic character. We know that there are unfortunately quite a few people like that in the real world, whereas there presumably aren’t so many who get their jollies by peeling people’s skin off like the Boltons. It makes Randall feel more threatening, I think.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
You should definitely check it out. One of my favorites of the year
Riverhawk,
Um you are aware that we are referring to a fiction fantasy show, right?
RosanaZugey,
Glad you didn’t, but I shared your general reaction. Dear lord.
Dennai,
Yup
Firannion,
Indeed! I’m afraid there are people like Randall in this world and some of them are powerful enough to get what they want. It gets shivers down my spine to remember how Randall mixed sex and torture, in both cases taking pleasure in humiliating his victim. And how his victim’s broken body stirred him.
Gatehouse Ami,
watch him in Misfits first season. x
Gatehouse Ami,
Looking forward to tonight’s finale.
Maybe we just have differing expectations about what constitutes believable behavior in a sociopathic sadist? My sense is that such people tend to have very low levels of affect (along with zero of empathy) and need to hurt people in order to make themselves feel anything at all. Book Ramsay struck me as that kind of a cold fish, which I personally find more scary than the Show Ramsay version, who is trying to add layers of humor or “charm,” like Hannibal Lecter. To me that doesn’t make him more humanized – only more improbable. That being said, I did like Rheon in all the scenes where you can see that he wants to please his father, the coldest cold fish of them all.
I think that the show got Joffrey’s brand of sadism more accurately, which is the sort of narcissism found in a toddler throwing a tantrum because something they want was taken from them. He likes to hurt people just because he can. He’s a case of arrested development with a very crude sense of what it means to have power.
I’ll send my 50-cent psychoanalysis bill to D & D in the morning.
RosanaZugey,
I don’t get it.
You do realize that at least Sansa had a choice to marry Ramsay right? Littlefinger asked her and she said yes.
How did she not expect that ramsay WOULD fuck her?
The ONLY POINT of this marriage was to get an heir… I think even young-Sansa knows people make heir.
How did she consent to the marriage without consenting to the sex?
Did she think Ramsay was marrying her for love? He didn’t even know her.
And comparing that to Eddard/Catelyn…
Catelyn DID NOT have a say on the matter, unlike Sansa.
Hoster didn’t ask her. It was “YOU WILL marry Brandon”, then when he died “YOU WILL marry Eddard”.
But Eddard is a nice character and all that so what he did ( fucking a girl who didn’t want him ) was alright, and Ramsay was literally the devil?
Consenting to marriage does not equal consenting to be raped. Ramsay tore Sansa’s dress off, shoved her down on the bed and forcibly attacked her, with zero wooing or affection or foreplay. That is rape, even if by marrying him she consented in principle to them having sex in some way at some point. It was how it was done.
Granted, we viewers did not witness Ned and Catelyn’s wedding night, but from what we know of Ned’s character, it would be unthinkable that he would have treated her roughly or unkindly. She eventually came around to loving him, which would never have happened if the marriage had started out with rape.
I find it bizarre that you do not perceive the difference in the two approaches.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Watch The Leftovers, it’s incredible! Also, why didn’t you think much of The Americans? That was my favourite show of the year, just ahead of Fargo and Leftovers.
For me the best shows of the year have been The Americans, The Leftovers and Fargo, with Mad Men, GOT and Better Call Saul quite far behind. Those first three shows have been absolutely amazing this year, and yet all three have really low ratings, and Leftovers is in serious danger of cancellation. Whyyy?! When Walking Dead, which is pretty damn mediocre these days, has so much success.
I have always found his performance as Ramsay boring and 2 dimensional. I would be more compelled by a Ramsay who does dreadful things but has an air of depression and nihilism about him, kind of like Javier Bardem in No Country for Old Men.
Speaking of the noble in Westeros, what’s your take? How do you think the introduction of House Tarly and the reintroduction of House Greyjoy will affect things moving forward? Do you think they’re there to give ‘clarification’ to existing characters or are they going to influence the endgame in some way?
Man…I’m really HOPING this season starts tying up loose ends and moving the whole story forward. By what we’re hearing, it sounds like its moving in that direction, but I’m not going to be overly optimistic. If you’re right about closing “Act II” and moving on to “Act III” (which, I sincerely hope you’re right about), then I guess its reasonable to assume that there will be a significant amount of deaths this go-around.
WHAT DID YOU THINK?!?!!??!?!? Eek!! 🙂 Initial reaction: perfection. If we never get another episode, I’m more than pleased with how it ended.
As a side, tell me, what do you think about the Guilty Remnant? I’ve always taken them as a metaphor for the ‘demons’ in your mind; the terrible things you CAN’T forget no matter how hard you try. They’re like a living/breathing voice in your head that says you’re never going to be ‘okay’ (especially after a life-changing and terrible event). And I like that. I feel like they represent (rather beautifully) some of the central struggles of the series: hope vs. despair…having a future vs. accepting that the world ended.
I know the majority of people hate them, but I think their role is central to the story and the ‘big questions’ the show asks.
aiad,
Uh, yes, there is a difference. It’s one thing to marry out of duty and expect to have normal, albeit awkward sex. It’s quite another to be ordered to undress in a cold manner and then have the man rip your dress and force you onto the bed face down while he does the deed without any foreplay whatsoever and no consideration of the pain it’s causing. If I recall, she was still a virgin too. Do you understand why Sansa was crying?
Irishton,
Welcome aboard. I feel the same way as you. So glad I found this site, been here a few months… or round abouts… though I didn’t formally introduce myself, just kind of jumped right in, only cause I’m shy 🙂 Everyone’s great here so far, blows me away how much thought and imagination comes into play and makes me look at things in a different way.
I’ll cover my response in spoilers out of respect for others:
Just like the “north remembers”, the Guilty Remnant wants to force others to remember the “rapture”. To me, the entire season was about how the GR continued to resonate within the primary characters after that crazy S1 finale. Society’s guilt of “why not me?” continued and the vanity of desperately trying to find a scientific explanation for it was compelling (the “Lens” episode blew me away). Each character (even as they desperately tried to move on) was haunted by their passive or active association with the GR, with Garvey literally needing an exorcism (which somehow has enabled him to cheat death even more!). In any case, I enjoy how the show exploits the guilt in all of us.
How did the GR/Meg recruit the kids from Miracle? Very eerie and damn if it didn’t resonate with what is in the news today. The destruction of family, the secrets that fester, the facade of wholesome perfection, the little earthquakes that terrify, remind and anchor us, the foundering soul, and a bittersweet justice. The show seemed to capture those very existential factors metaphorically and emotionally. Loved it.
Regarding S2….Having Mimi Leder direct the bookend episodes of the season and having Tom Perrotta (the author involved in the show going beyond the book!) help script the key episodes, including the finale, was an excellent choice by the showrunner. They took a gamble with S2 and it paid off. I think we’ll be hearing about it more during awards season (like we should have for S1). HBO is a hit machine.
Glad you liked it as well.
Maria,
I get the points about Tywin, Roose, and Littlefinger, but what did Varys do? He seems to be the only one (aside from Tyrion) who ever gives a damn about the big picture.
TBH, I do find myself sympathizing more and more with Tywin (aside from how he treated Tyrion). He was the epitome of what the Corleones called a “war-time consigliere” and basically kept the Seven Kingdoms afloat whenever he was around.
Elessar,
Varys: Convinced Aerys to let the Lannisters into KL, leading to sack. There are hints that he had something to do with the death of Arryn. He was probably working against Robert, as he wanted Aegon in. For that reason, he leads Tyrion to kill Tywin, encourages Cersei’s anti-Tyrell paranoia, then kills Kevan, all of which lead to chaos. Despite that, like Tywin, he’s difficult to dismiss as “psycho.” btw totally agree on Tywin as “wartime consigliere.”
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Leftovers was fantastic this season!
No they are all issued the flashy thingy from Men In Black. Works just as well as the Obliviators. 😉
+10 (still wish we had a like button)
Good God!!!! What an EXCELLENT analysis! *Long distance hi-five* I almost enjoyed reading your breakdown as much as I enjoyed the episode. 😉 🙂
Your comment about the “destruction of family” brings to mind a ‘theme’ that has existed in this show since the beginning, but that I didn’t particularly catch until last night when Tommy said, “There is no family,” and Meg responds with, “Family is everything.” But since I can’t quite put into words what I want to say about that theme (and trust me, I’ve been trying for the past 30 minutes), I’ll come back when what I want to say has fully ‘baked’ in my head.
In the meantime, I did want to say, that no other group of characters so perfectly fits into your description of, “the secrets that fester, the facade of wholesome perfection” as the Murphy’s.
All in all, freaking AMAZING season. Wow. I thought season 1 was brilliant, but season 2 was one of the best seasons of television I have ever watched. If Ann Dowd, Justin Theroux, Regina King, Damon Lindelof, Tom Perrotta and the show as a whole don’t get nominated for Emmys, I’ll consider that one hell of a snub. This show–and those actors/writers–deserve not only the nomination, but the win. THAT show is the “Best Drama” on television. Period.
I like your take on Erika. What an interesting character, being a doctor, deaf, a tolerant skeptic and with an abusive father-in-law. By the way, did you get a “Maggie-The-Frog” vibe from the father-in-law? 🙂
And Regina King’s (Erika’s) unique eyes!! Were those contact lenses? I was mesmerized at how deep, expressive, and somewhat eerie her eyes were. The whole Murphy family was extremely well integrated into the “Leftovers” story.
I appreciate your thoughts, RZ. Next up…Vinyl!
aiad,
Whether you mean to or not your insinuation here is they’re married, therefore all sex is consensual and no rape can occur upon marriage. Which is obviously wrong. I doubt you set out to make that insinuation, but the suggestion by you that “how did she consent to marriage without consenting to the sex” is a rather frightening mindset to see someone have to be honest with you.
Maria,
Ah. OK, so book Varys then, because show Varys has been remarkably sympathetic (and one of more than a few things the show has done better than the books).
On Ramsay himself, I’m fine with him as he is. Rheon has provided me with some of my favorite quotes from the show (i.e. If you think this has a happy ending…). Book Ramsay reminded way too much of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs (heck, even the physical resemblance is there, aside from different hair color). Moreover, he wasn’t in the books often enough to leave an impression. Show Ramsay leaves that and a hell of a lot more. Sure, he’s a stereotypical villain, but I’m fine with that as–like Gregor or Darth Maul–he’s more or less a living weapon. Plus, at least he’s smart and does his own dirty work. If there’s one thing that’s gotten way too old, its the villain who relies on incompetent henchmen to do his/her dirty work. Either hire real help or do it yourself.
UNIVERSITAS – Latin.
Mihnea,
I’m so glad that I’m not the only one that saw the look on his face with Roose legitimized him. He’s much more humanized in the show than the books. I couldn’t stand his character in the book, but I absolutely love the character in the show. If you watch how Roose treats him, you can understand why he does what he does. I love Iwan’s portrayal of Ramsay.