The Game of Thrones exhibit at SXSW opened today, with a focus on the Hall of Faces we’ve seen so much these last couple months as we prepare for season 6. The exhibit will remain open until Monday, providing fans who will be in the Austin, Texas area with an opportunity to check out the Iron Throne, join the Hall themselves, view show costumes and new artwork, and pose with Needle.
Oh and they’ll be checking out an exclusive clip from Game of Thrones season 6 as well. Since the new footage is being shown only there in Austin, we’re not able to see it of course. But one fan has posted about it on Reddit.
Click to uncover spoilers for the scene:
Redditor Milazzo reports that the short clip shown at SXSW is a scene of Melisandre and Davos discussing Jon Snow. The priestess says she’s seen him at Winterfell in the flames. Davos says he doesn’t see in the flames, but that Jon is gone.
Photos from SXSW:
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Visit MakingGameofThrones.com to see more photos from the exhibit!
Hodor!
More new footage! Great week to be a Game of Thrones fan! (I guess the clip will come out eventually)
interesting Spoiler
That clip description……i am pumped. ITS GOING TO HAPPEN GUYS
Dammit, this is the first time I’ve missed living in Austin.
I thought the Redditor clarified and said she could have been referring to Stannis?
It’s probably about Stannis. Another source I saw earlier described it as the scene began with that long shot of Castle black coming closer to Jon lying dead and then cut to Davos and Melisandre in a room talking. That suggests they don’t know about Jon yet.
Jack Bauer 24,
Last I looked, she said they were
The commenter said:
It seems pretty clearly to be about Jon.
And other people have talked about it online- https://twitter.com/SeanBHutchinson/status/708343560832028672
People seem to be in agreement, given the conversation and context, who it is about.
From what I read on Reddit, Mel used only the pronoun “he”. No names. Some have extrapolated that to mean Stannis (makes more sense to me), others Jon Snow.
Hmmm….. they really ARE fond of the Hall of faces!
I wish it was April already. I can’t wait any longer lol.
If that vision was of Jon and not Stannis, then this vision could be the motivation for Mel to try to resurrect Jon. Because something needs to happen for these two to work towards bringing Jon back and a vision of
. Another thing I would like to know is if she sees this vision prior to or post Jon’s death. If she sees the vision after his death, she might take it to mean that she needs to bring Jon back? Or alternatively, this is part of that scene where Mel says the victory she saw in the flames was a lie and she is actually talking about Stannis and not Jon.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/49zmfd/no_spoilers_exclusive_s6_footage_at_sxsw_to_be/d0werjg
What about this one? The descrition was removed but I saved the text
“Opening shot is the distanced shot of Jon’s body from the trailer. Then a closer shot showing his face. He looks very pale. Then Melisandre and Davos in a dark room. She’s visibly upset and he’s sullen. Melisandre says “I saw him in the flames, fighting at Winterfell.” and then Davos responds something like, No matter what you saw, he’s gone now.”
*finger steeples* Exxxxxcellent…
With that context, and with the line in the trailer about everything she knew being a lie, I would be almost certain they’re talking about Stannis.
Even if they were talking about Stannis, the shot of Jon’s body before this conversation rather strongly implies that it was Jon that she saw fighting at Winterfell rather than Stannis; that she mistook what she saw in the flames, as she has a number of times regarding Stannis at this point, and that it was Jon instead. We know from filming spoilers that
so this seems very likely, and it also seems a bit like a hint to fans as well. There’s a reason the scene was so misleading, to make fans think they were discussing Jon. I wonder how she will come to the realisation that Jon is the one she has seen in the flames?
Exactly. It’s only a few hours after “For The Watch” scene and since he’s still lying dead and Mel and Davos are talking at that moment, they can’t possibly know about Jon being stabbed. I imagine the scene will go on for a few minutes more, before they hear some screams outside, then they will go out and that’s probably where that promotional photo of Davos was taken. He’s just come out outside to see what happened.
I’m inclined to agree on this. It makes way more sense that she’s lamenting
Stannis’ death, her own mistakes and failures (and possibly guilt over Shireen although just supposition there), and that she had said already that she’s seen Stannis at WF (and there’s been no mention on show canon of Jon seen in the flames). The fact they’ve panned to Jons body just before this is only ironic juxtaposition: if it were Jon they were mourning (over Stannis? Doubtful), then they sure as hell wouldn’t be leaving his body out in the cold. My guess is the clip has made viewers jump to the wrong conclusion (just as many of us have done with the trailer).
Which brings me to the next point… Halle-fucking-lujah, now we can put to bed this ridiculous notion it was the Hound saying that line “he’s gone”! It’s SO obviously Davos! 😉
Gravemaster,
Last season, when Mel was talking about her vision in the flames with Stannis’, she only said that she saw herself walking the battlements of Winterfell and Bolton flags burning. She did not seem to have actually seen Stannis in her vision. But if she actually saw Stannis fighting in Winterfell in her vision, as she tells Davos here, it would seem that the visions, or whatever magic is guiding those visions, are deliberately misleading her. Whereas I was always under the impression that the visions were accurate and only Mel’s interpretations were wrong.
Something else I’ve noticed (I need to get my ass over to Reddit, I never use that source)… Has anyone zoomed in on those posters? Looks like one (second from right) is some figure rising from the flames with God like hands above (that also resembles the Wall/ ice melting ) am I seeing this right? It’s early here in the UK maybe I just need my coffee!
http://grrm.livejournal.com/477725.html
George says there will be no regional premieres this year, just the main one in LA next month.
People saying she must be talking about Stannis as they don’t yet know about Jon’s death – how would they know (Davis especially! ) about Stannis’ defeat/death then?
raw_bean,
The scene with Mel and Davos just because they show Jon lying dead in the snow directly before it doesn’t mean that’s the real sequence. She could have seen vision of Stannis death in the flames🙂 Word could have reached them by the time this scene took place because who knows how much time had passed since Stannis’ death? How long did it take her to reach the castle black. How far was Stannis and crew when she decided to turn around. We don’t know.
They’re most likely discussing Stannis and the vision she had of him at Winterfell, the scene is a follow-up to her return to Castle Black knowing Stannis was doomed. It ties with her comment about her vision being a lie (from the trailer). If they already had Jon’s body, they wouldn’t be hanging around and talking about visions, they’d be acting due to the fact Alliser and co would be after them. Also, why would she have visions of two Winterfell battles? If she had the Jon one, why did she believe in Stannis ‘ victory so much? It’s so HBO to mislead the viewers like that. It’s actually pretty obvious. Edited snippet of a conversation, no names used, Jon on the snow shown. Why would they release a clip that spells Jon’s revival?
IMO a follow-up to the stabbing (more of Jon lying dead) and then cut to Mel and Davos talking about Stannis would be the first two scenes of season 6. If there’s no cold open that is.
Those two scene
All this means that there will be no resurrection until ep 2 at the earliest. Another puzzling scene is that where Davos is standing by a pile of wood and ash. If this is Shireens (and who elses could it be?) then maybe the “now he is gone” is uttered within the context of Stannis if Mel explains to Davos what happened.
harlequeen,
Yes very reasonable I totally agree…
Dunno if it’s been mentioned already but Martin confirmed that it was his intention all along to have Stannis and Melisandre burn Shireen. The hate on D+D for that was unwarranted.
harlequeen,
So If these two don’t know about Jon and talk about Stannis who finds Jon’s body? It would be a twist if Olly is the one who out of remorse alarms either Ed or Davos and reveals what happened excluding himself of course… Furthermore the logic says that Mel is so distressed when she is talking with Davos because it is Stannis they are talking about. Isn’t it natural for her who had invested all her efforts to Stannis to be like this? Why would she cry for Jon whom she met a couple of times? So it must be Stannis she crying for when she is with Davos and explains what happened. Another option is that she fakes her emotions in order to soften Davos wrath… There are some possibilities here…
Erm, because half his men and all of the sellswords deserted him, the horses were gone, they had no supplies. Common sense would’ve told them, not to mention if Mel has seen something in the flames in this very scene ( which ties in with Davos’ line).
I really don’t think he said “Jons gone”, but “he’s gone”, per the trailer and viewers have gotten mixed up because of the shot of Jon.
In the trailer people actually thought Tyrion was talking to Sansa because of how it was edited (I mean, seriously??).
Apollo,
Those are the “beautiful death” posters, the one you are talking about is a poster from 1st episode of season 5 and it’s Mance burning. See http://beautifuldeath.com/post/116654394988 for that poster.
dothrakian raven,
I think they find Jon after their talk. Maybe Ghost gets out of wherever he was locked in and alerts them to the scene.
I think it’s made out to be about Jon when in reality it’s about Stannis?
Either way it makes sense.
Apollo,
Yeah, the footage of Jon on the snow with the VO saying ‘he’s gone’ is a clear misdirection. Clips and trailers are specificially edited to instill confusion.
Thanks for that. I was getting way over excited for a moment picturing all kinda wall falling/fire resurrection scenarios 🙂
Well, they’ve basically come out and said in these clips that they are going to start bringing people back from the dead, haven’t they? The HBO clip with Jeoffry (or however you spell his name) and now this one with the hall of faces. So surely we’ll get Lady Stoneheart this time around.
The mutilation of Stannis’s body being hung upside down and burned, Mel will want to protect Jons body out of flames vision and Davos will want to ensure Jons body isn’t similarly mistreated and wish to protect it out of his and Stannis respect for Jon
Sure, buddy. Ned Stark too. And Joffrey. Everyone’s coming back to life!
Do Davos and Melisandre already know that Stannis is dead? And wouldn’t they know first about Jon’s death than about Stannis’s death? I don’t think that only common sense or deductions would be enough for Davos to throw a “he’s gone now”. I mean, if the clip opens with Jon and is the real sequence and not a cut made only for the sxsw, it would be strange if the news of Stannis death came first than finding Jon’s body. Anyway, despite who is found first, I think it makes sense the conversation to be about Stannis but it makes sense to be about Jon too, I guess the ambiguity is deliberated.
I think in the episode where she leaves Stanis for Castle Black, the face she makes like she just realized all along it wasn’t Stanis says it all… she’s definately speaking of Jon in this sequence
I have an interesting feeling…that maybe after the Jon’s ressurection..initially. ….He comes to life but in a khal drogo kinda way after mirri and the tent and horse you all remember that . ……
. ..
and maybe they say what they say above ,….and then proceed to burn his body. …
and boom that’s when Jon is fully back to life. ….you know birth by fire….
plz don’t laugh …
In this site they say a part of the event is to guess which characters will appear on the show’s actual Hall of Faces and tweet their suggestions:
http://www.fastcompany.com/3057497/sxsw/enter-the-hall-of-faces-at-hbos-game-of-thrones-themed-sxswesteros
I’m wondering if when they say Hall of Faces it means the REAL Hall of Faces in the House of Black and White or just the imaginary place where dead characters go…
Interesting. My guess is she saw the Bolton banners burning and Jon fighting in Winterfell, but assumed he would be doing that for Stannis. It would also explain why she was trying to convince Jon in season 5 to join them.
And Davos would tell her that it doesn’t matter what she saw because Stannis is now gone. Or he would look in the flanes and not see Jon anymore. I don’t know.
I agree with everyone who said that Ghost would alert them and lead them to Jon. It seems plausible.
I just hope that
Also, Jon has a lot of things he needs to do before fighting in Winterfell, so he needs plenty of episodes for that. He has to:
– deal with the NW betrayal and realize his watch ended with his death
– deal with the consequence of his resurrection and any potential changes to his character
– reunite with Sansa and/or Rickon (they have had no interactions on the show, so they need to build up a relationship). I also wonder if Bran might try to reconnect with Jon via dreams like Bloodraven did (Bran will need something to do in the second half of the season, especially if we get the full reveal at the ToJ).
– leave the Wall and find a safe place for him, Mel, Davos, the Wildlings, and potentially Sansa if they reunite and Brienne takes her straight to the Wall. Even if Sansa goes somewhere else, Jon still has the Wildlings to look after (and he is not Lord Commander anymore, so he can’t get them lands or protect them from the Boltons).
– ally with the Northern Lords to take down the Boltons (he knows the Mormonts are on the Stark side, but he will need other houses)
– convince the Wildlings to join him and bend the knee; train them for battle and give them food and weapons
– deal with potential tensions between Wildlings and the Northern Houses
– find a base of operations from where he can attack the Boltons and plan the battles (a castle/holdfast)
– find some Stark armor and pull his hair back in a cute man bun
I also assume the Battle of the Bastards isn’t his only confrontation with the Boltons based on the trailer, especially since the showrunners seem to be planning towards an epic Jon vs Ramsay showdown. The Boltons could initially attack the Wildlings with some troops, for example (if Ramsay suspects Jon is there and has Sansa). He could also get some prisoners to burn on the cross (like Tormund).
A lot of the things I mentioned probably won’t happen, but there is no denying Jon needs to be resurrected quickly based on the NW wanting to burn his body and him eventually ending up leading an army in Stark armor.
I loved the scene in S2/ACoK where Davos witnesses Mel giving birth to a shadow baby. The incredulous look on his face was memorable. But he still maintained his distance and skepticism regarding her ultimate agenda. He simply does not trust her (or red magic in general). It will be extremely interesting to see the (show-only) steps they take once she realizes (with Davos’s insight or not) that she was seeing Snow in the flames all along. How will Davos ultimately get convinced, which will lead to the (apologetic) Longclaw scene in the trailer?
Furthermore, I bet it isn’t simply the NW nationalists who are going to provide interference to Mel’s possible final task before R’hllor wills her back to his realm.
Jon Snow’s Curling Iron,
exactly..if they draw it out too long people will just be like ” we know its gonna happen..just do it already and move on”..I agee end of first episode is when it needs to be done
i m sorry but they shouldnt have postponed the prmiere date to 24, that too far a way, it just ruins the momentum, if it was at april 7 that would have been perfect, 24 is just too much time. it was just a bad decision.
I’m 100% certain Mel’s vision of a Winterfell victory was of Jon and not Stannis, but the question is, Was Mel certain? During this scene, does she still think she saw Stannis when she really saw Jon?
I think you’re extrapolating the show adaptation into canon. Benioff only mentioned that GRRM told them Shireen was “sacrificed.” We do not know anything more than that per the “Inside the Episode” interview. Given the known logistics, Stannis’ position, absence of family, extreme weather conditions and known movement of friendly/foe forces in the TWoW preview (Theon I), I doubt Stannis will be involved in any Shireen sacrifice decision and the “time-warped” Pink Letter will prove true.
harlequeen,
Really? Where?
How do they know Stannis is dead? Mel clearly left before the battle and before Brienne did her duty. Did they receive a raven at Castle Black? Can they trust the raven? Did Mel see the battle or Stannis’s death in a vision? But if her visions are conflicting, how does she know which is the truth and which is the lie?
harlequeen,
When did he confirm this?
Hodors Bastard,
I was talking about this—>
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/game-of-thrones/39270/game-of-thrones-season-5-what-we-learned-from-the-blu-rays/page/0/1
It’s not just that it was Martin’s idea to burn Shireen, but also that it was his idea all along to have it on Stannis’ order.
Hodors Bastard,
LordGriffith,
If I may chime in. I don’t think harlequeen is refering to the “Inside the episode”, but to the “What we learned from the Blu-rays”-list that den of geek published yesterday.
It’s number 109:
They are talking about Jon. Even if Mel had a vision of Stannis’s death Davos wouldn’t be the one saying “he’s gone now” unless he knew for sure Stannis was dead. Just because Davos and Mel are inside and Jon’s body is outside doesn’t mean they are unaware of his death. They could gone inside to discuss what to do with his body and the murders.
I assume a raven could have been sent to Castle Black (Thorne could have also received a message). Mel left in the eve of battle and it probably took her about a week or more to even reach the Wall.
Or she saw Stannis’ fate in the fire when his army left him and got out of there asap.
I think she saw Jon too, but she mistakenly assumed Jon was fighting for Stannis.
harlequeen,
I’m surprised he would admit to that instead of allowing it to remain a mystery as to whether or not it will happen in the book until the book came out. Maybe he chose to spoil it to take some of the heat f&D because he is aware of the hate they got for it.
JamesL,
I think it’s a fair warning to the viewers not to be so quick to jump on the hate bandwagon and dismiss something they dislike as another case of D&D’s sick fanfiction. The show strays from canon in some ways, but the essential plot points stay the same (the reasons might be tweaked a bit sometimes though). The storylines are just condensed due to time limits.
ghost of winterfell,
Since you mentioned it, I was trying to lookup Mel’s visions to see exactly what she saw, but there isn’t one clear place that lists them all in detail, unfortunately. Humph.
However, I did find this vision that I think proves we’ll be seeing some warging in our near future (at least in the books), if you assume that all of Mel’s visions are real, that is. I do assume that. She sucks at interpreting her visions, hence her thinking FauxArya was RealArya, but I firmly believe they are all real.
harlequeen,
Wylie,
I believe DoG incorrectly extrapolated the thoughts of Benioff from the “Inside the Episode” clip.
Benioff: “When George first told us about this…”.
It is a show-only adaptation to have family with Stannis during his time of despair near WF. I am not trying to argue or defend Stannis in any way…just stating the facts of what was said.
Hodors Bastard,
It’s not necessarily from the “Inside…”, it could be some new commentary. I guess, we just have to wait a few days and listen to what is said in the extras for ourselves.
But I’m sure if Martin wanted Stannis to actively be involved in sacrificing Shireen, he would find some way.
Something recently was published (I think it was the Season 5 DVD) promising more info related to exactly what GRRM shared regarding Shireen, implying Stannis was in on the plan. However, there were no direct quotes in the article, so it could be that the writer of that article extrapolated too much. Sue mentioned nothing about this bit in her review. I cannot find the reference, unfortunately.
Perhaps…but did GRRM “tell them” that Stannis took his family and Davos to the battle at WF, that Sansa married Ramsay, that Mance was burned….? These are tired, well-argued, well-defended adaptation topics that GRRM has not commented on as well. I’ll continue my counter-logic until we get more from GRRM other than “the show is the show and the books are the books…”
Thanks for the link! I like:
Awww….. if Drogon grew so massively between Seasons 4 and 5, and his adult scales haven’t come in yet, I wonder what Seasons 6,7 and later will bring in terms of size!
He has two options:
1. Have a part of the fandom keep hating D&D while he sits quietly by.
2. Allow his book intentions to become known, if he is planning to release the next book within the next 2/3 years, when fans will remember if he let the hate continue against D&D for their alleged “fanfiction.”
In the longer run, option 2 is better, I’d say!
Hodors Bastard,
They’re reporting about the extras on DVD, it is clearly stated that Martin thought of having Stannis burn Shireen.
I actually think she probably didn’t know the person she saw was Jon. I’m assuming these visions can be quite blurry at times or faces obscured. Perhaps she saw Lightbringer or perhaps the visions had metaphorically marked the man as AAR, which made her assume that the man she was seeing was Stannis.
I am almost certain that the
Hodors Bastard,
Hmm. I don’t really understand what you are saying.
For clarification, I just wanted to point out that there could be some new commentary on the DVD in which D&D are a bit more explicit about what GRRM told them about Shireen’s sacrifice and Stannis‘ involvement. That’s all. I don’t understand what that has to do with Ramsay marrying Sansa or Mance’s burning.
Season 6 picks up right where Season 5 left off, so Drogon should be the same size still.
harlequeen,
I think it is unclear until we get a quote. If there was something so enormous as this revelation, why didn’t Sue cover that in her review of the Season 5 DVD? Why did DoG not provide an exact quote on such a controversial topic? Many fans misinterpreted what D&D were and weren’t saying in that video, so it could be the same one. Or it could be true confirmation that no one else reviewing the DVDs caught.
Pigeon,
I believe they will make it seem like he’s not coming back at all in ep 1 and then lo and behold he will be back at the beginning or end of ep 2. No point in dragging it out beyond the first two eps, it will lose its momentum, they have bigger things on their plate to tend to and the mystery of his fate has been hanging over the fandom for nearly a year (or since 2011 if you’re a book reader) now. It’s more than enough time to keep the viewers squirming. They will also run a bigger risk of it being spoiled if they postpone it, let’s just get it over and done with.
Episode 2 might still be a little too early. Maybe episode 3.
Not to derail the Jon v. Stannis discussion, but did anyone else think
when they saw the dirty white/grey robe with the enormous hood? It’s probably just J’aqen’s, but I am so looking forward to that reveal!! And a pic of Ian McShane in character. Please, HBO!
That’s way too long. Looking at how tense things are at the Wall, no way they can let things drag for too long. The NW will want to get their hands on Jon’s body immediately, and I doubt Melisandre will wait for his body to start rotting before she attempts reviving him.
Plus, I think viewers who are invested in Jon will lose interest (and looking at how so many want to know what happens at the Wall/in the North, they won’t focus or care about the other storylines until that one is resolved). Just look at how actors who have nothing to do with the Wall and North storylines get asked about Jon in interviews.
I don’t know about others, but I personally don’t care that much about the Essos storylines for example (Dany, Tyrion, CSI Lord Friendzone), and if they derail Jon’s resurrection I’ll probably only tune in after he’s back.
Ginevra,
Yeah, that is the biggest foreshadowing of Jon’s warging and subsequent resurrection in the books, I think. But I was talking about the show only here. Most people are assuming that Mel was speaking about Stannis when she says she saw him fighting at Winterfell. However from what we saw last season at least, she never actually saw Stannis in her visions. She only saw herself. So I was wondering if this vision she is speaking of in S6 is a new vision, which could possibly be of Jon himself fighting at Winterfell.
Since the exhibit was focused on The House of Black and White, I didn’t think about McShane at all. I imagine he’ll have robes that are similar to that of the maesters because of the weather (or the high sparrow, but less flimsy).
I don’t understand – if the NW is so intent on getting to Jon’s body that they have to break down a door and fight Davos & friends, why did they leave him lying out in the snow all alone – by himself – no one around –
Pigeon,
Someone mentioned in another thread that they may end the first episode at the premiere event before it actually ends to prevent certain details *wink wink* from being leaked. Maybe the first episode is listed as only being 50 minutes because that is how long the episode at that event will be, but once that event’s come and gone, HBO will update the episode description with the proper run time. Or maybe I’m overthinking it.
Jon Snow’s Curling Iron,
I like this and I agree with most of what you’ve said. I love your Jon love!
Ok…apologies for being indirect. Given all the massive “butterfly-effect” adaptations that we have seen on this quality show (the ones I described above, plus Asha at Dreadfort, plus Jaime in Dorne, plus Locke/Crasters, etc.), why is this specific scenario considered “canon” by you and others? Because of what Benioff (the adaptor) mentioned ambiguously in well-edited commentary? He is adapting from an ambiguous outline discussed with GRRM several years ago. The current logical/physical disparity between the two characters on the page would make any Stannis-Shireen sacrifice scenario highly improbable. Also, the time shift between ADwD/TWoW Theon PoVs and ADwD Jon PoVs doesn’t allow for it at all.
Folks, all of you who say that Mel was lamenting Stannis haven’t been paying attention. Mel had to see Jon fighting in Winterfell in her visions, because in S5 Stannis who had burned leaches to kill Robb in S3 suddenly became very positive about the idea of a Stark king in the North and began to try to get Jon on his side. I don’t believe that such change could be instigated solemnly by a letter from the Mormont She-Bear, hence, Mel had to see Jon fighting in Winterfell.
In the beginning she didn’t envision all the sequence – after Jon refused to leave the Wall, she could decide that he would joint Stannis later. However, when Mel heard that half of the army deserted Stannis in “Monther’s Mersy”, she realized that Winterfell would not be taken without Jon and hurried to the Castle Black to bring him to the siege: everyone thought that there would be a siege and not the battle, so, she could think that she had time, and also take a look to Mel’s facial expression at that moment – she clearly got a sudden enlightenment and was up to something.
However, when Mel came to the Castle Black her facial expression was totally different. When Jon asked her about Stannis she gave him that hopeless look. Sure, she heard about the Boltons’ victory and Stannis’ death on the way (news spread fast). Also note, that after Mel arrived she went straight to her chamber unwilling to talk to anyone and Jon was also alone in his chamber when Olly came. Therefore, I think that Davos had to go to his chamber as well and I don’t see him having a talk with Mel before they find Jon. Here is my vision of the sequence to come.
First, Jon is lying dead in the snow and Ghost is howling (actually even an ordinary dog would have heard for-the-watch-ing Jon). Hearing the howl Mel, Davos, Edd etc. rushes out; Ghost leads them to Jon’s body. Mel tries to resurrect Jon and fails or his death is a shock by itself; so, when they realize that Jon is dead and nothing can be done, Mel says that all her visions including Jon fighting in Winterfell were a lie. The trailer hints that they were not showing a flayed man representing the sigil of the Boltons burning, but for the moment Davos replies “no matter what you saw”.
Then sir Alliser and co come to kill Ghost and/or have a chat with Jon’s loyalists. Davos and others draw their swords and give them a fight. During that fight or even after it Mel or someone else) notices something that instigates the second try (it may be even the eyes of the wolf carved on the pommel of the Longclaw which had that strange blue glow in the trailer) and finally Jon comes back.
And look the flayed body on the cross cannot be Stannis. It will take several months to come to the so called Bastardbowl and there is no way his body looking freshly flayed by then.
Ill pass on the spoiler and comments! But that hall of faces setup looks awesome! So jelly!
I agree that logistically the physical separation between the characters makes it improbable, if that’s all we consider. But what about theme and character arcs? Stannis sacrificing Shireen creates a tremendous climax to the arc of this character who George said would break before he bent. To me, it makes tremendous sense for this to be exactly where that character trajectory is headed: destined to break.
If only I had your self-control! I hope you enjoy the new season in all its unspoilt glory!
Thanks 🙂
Except for that time when Mel saw him in the flames.
http://media.giphy.com/media/qO6APSbMH6dLG/giphy.gif
Except in the trailer, it didn’t sound like he was going to say “now.”
I agree with everything. Mel’s first attempt might might be praying over his body like Thoros did, and then something happens which makes her realize she has to do something else.
Speculation based on filming news/trailer:
Name *,
Thank you!!! :$ it’s harrrrd
I hope I will and I think I will, y’all are hyping it up!!! 🙂
To give him time to die & to disrespect him as much as possible. Maybe they are breaking down the door to get Longclaw. They can’t possibly know Ghost is in there, and if Alliser knew there were all in there, why would he only bring 2 men with him?
Sullied by Knight,
A corpse is harmless to them, they didn’t think anyone would want to do something with it, other than burn it that is, so they left it alone. Let others take care of it, they have no respect for Jon to go to the trouble of giving him a proper burial. Leaving him to bleed out was another way of disrespecting him. Then something has to happen to make them anxious enough to want to do it themselves. They also would want to kill Ghost. They set out to find the two and meet resistance in the form of Mel, Davos, loyal Watchmen and a barricaded door, at which point they realise things have gotten out of their control.
I don’t believe a word EW hypes. Were they even invited on set last year?
Honestly the first time I listened, I thought it sounded like Sean Bean saying “he’s gone” but that clearly makes no sense. Still doesn’t really *sound* like Davos, but I can definitely agree that it’s more likely Davos than Ned 😉
Loved the trailer. So hyped. Oh, and
At the very least, that storyline needs some resolution, because we haven’t seen/heard that uncomfortable conversation between them yet. And I believe this conversation is the show equivalent of our Melisandre chapter from the books….insight into her self-doubt, and the glimmer of possibility that she was wrong about Stannis’ role in the endgame.
Hodors Bastard,
Ok. Now I see a bit clearer, though I never said it would definitely happen in the books! Just that new information in the DVD extras (not the „Inside..“) seems to indicate that GRRM might have told them specific details about book!Stannis arc which were used in the adaptation, namely his involvement in Shireen’s sacrifice.
Now, I haven’t been in the books for a long time, so I can’t really comment about the time shift, which seems to be an interesting point. Also, I guess that regarding where everyone is at the end of ADwD, your proposed scenario sounds very plausible.
Again, maybe they go into more detail in the DVD extras, if not, well, we’ll know when TWoW comes out.
Yeah, I understand this completely and it would make Stannis so…“Shakespeare”-ingly tragic! Damn, I wish for a Stannis PoV! But, alas, this isn’t Stannis’s story and his delusion of grandeur will fade away in the arcs of Theon, Mel, and Davos. As is indicated in S5/S6, his battle in the Ice will be overshadowed by the real Battle in the North to come, and Stannis will have been just another non-PoV casualty in a long list of secondary characters to die (probably chewed to bits by Ramsay’s hounds after a surprise attack by Frey and Bolton forces).
I guess I would like to know folks’ perspective of what Stannis had to say in TWoW Theon I. Was he being “absolutist” to Tycho and others with his regard for Shireen or not?
Name *,
EW is owned by the same company that owns HBO. Of course they will play into HBO’s marketing team’s hands. They are HBO’s sock puppet.
Joanna Robinson from Vanity Fair, who was the first media person to claim Jon will be back, called out Hibberd on his BS.
I wouldn’t believe them. Even reputable sources like Vanity Fair say
I’ve also read somewhere that EW is affiliated with HBO, so of course they’d deny it.
I’m pretty sure they were for a photo shoot.
Rygritte,
harlequeen,
Jon Snow’s Curling Iron,
Hmm… *scurries off to check conspiracy pictures*
I will defer to the commentary then, hopefully to be surprised as well.
The time-shift/overlap between ADwD and TWoW in the north is crazy and extremely troubling. If the Pink Letter is true, then the Theon PoV activities around WF are proceeding much more slowly than the Mel/Jon PoV events at CB. By the time Jon is stabbed during FTW, Stannis should be dead…BUT TWoW’s Theon preview assumes Stannis is still plodding along. Hence, all the theories about the PL being a loaded mummery from Stannis, Mance, or someone else… 😉 Crazy…
1) I don’t think we will see Jon with a bun in the show, because in the show men don’t wear buns. On the other hand, Kit had the same bun, when he was out of the costume, therefore, I think the leaked photo was taken from some rehearsal rather than actual filming moment.
2) I don’t think Tormund will be on the cross. All the armament of the Bolton soldiers he was fighting with implies that the fight is happening during the great battle (if Boltons decided to make a raid on the wildlings, they would rather use a cavalry squad). In fact, I even suspect that the flayed men won’t be flayed by Boltons – we were told the opposite, but Boltons don’t burn flayed bodies, they leave them exposed. So, what about Bolton loyalists flayed by Stark loyalists? There is at least one northern lord whose parents and uncle were flayed in S5 and who would probably want to repay Ramsay with the installation of his sigil set on fire. So, if Ramsay sends some scouts or envoys hoping to make peace with his wife, they may end flayed on the cross pretty well.
harlequeen,
Rygritte,
They’d better leave Ghost alone! Here’s hoping Ghost has a nice Alliser dinner. Would love to see that! Maybe a little Olly for dessert!
Jack Bauer 24,
Of boring King’s Landing IIRC. I doubt anyone was invited for any spoilery scenes. I’m so glad nobody is getting screeners & even EW seems to have had limited access to filming & info, unless they are holding it until the week of the premiere when they’ll release an article daily. Even though it wasn’t that great, I miss the advent calendar.
It will probably be weeks or months before Dany is reunited with Drogon (depending on how far she has to travel to VD and how long she spends there) so the sfx people have the option to make him bigger than in Season 5.
Hodors Bastard,
Oh, looks complicated, but thank you for the summary! I think I will have to read up on a few theories 🙂
Kinda wondering how and why Davos is going to forgive Mel for burning Shireen… unless that part of the story is not going to be exposed for some time? I am really waiting for that realization to happen and see how Davos is going to react.
True, but he didn’t look much bigger in the trailer.
A) that wasn’t a vision and B), I don’t have any idea what that means.
Only that now we have confirmation that Davos utters that line (which was obvious from the beginning).
About jon’s resurrection …
Say if jon was “azor hai” or “the promised prince” or some sort of prophesied figure … wouldnt just a plain resurrection by magic that can be done to anyone kinda like not prove that point? Or say if mel had doubts in her lord .. how would it restore her faith in him?
See for daenerys there was a magical event that marked her “rebirth” with her not getting burnt and the birth of her dragons .. it was a one time magical thing , so it kinda proved she was “special”
I dont know i guess i was just hoping that if jon was to be resurrected it would be in a cool way that no one was expecting instead of a just plain ole lord of the light resurrection spell
: /
But we shall see -o-
Yes, she saw herself at Winterfell, but I dont recall any mention of Stannis. She is right about being there, but wrong about it being because of Stannis… My conclusions have been drawn. Will be at the exhibit tomorrow and watch the scene myself.
All of this confuses me.
Is it Stannis she is talking about or Jon Snow? Man, i wish it was April 24th now.
Could it be that mel never saw an actual face in the flames or her visions? She saw wf, bolton flags burning, & snow. Might she come to the conclusion that the snow represented jon snow? Davos tells her it doesn’t matter, since he’s dead, but mel is remembering the resurrection described to her by thoros & beric. She’s thinking even if he’s dead, she can try to figure out how to revive him 🙂
Perhaps mel confesses to davos about stannis & shireen just before she realizes she may know how to bring jon back? they get interrupted by the mutineers trying to break in to kill ghost. Davos, jon loyalists, & ghost win the fight. Then they go get jons body.
Mels attempt at revival very clearly fails at the end of the premiere. The internet breaks.
She finally figures it out & jon comes to back life at end of 2nd episode – the internet breaks again
?
Rygritte,
It is not Jon, the hair is too long to be Jon. In the leaked set pictures his hair is shorter.
Jack Bauer 24,
Wrong. One of the CG guys was quoted as saying Drogon will be twice the size in s6: http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Game-Thrones-Dragons-Double-Size-Season-6-72444.html
On the topic of Shireen’s sacrifice and DVD extras:
Apparently it was only conjecture by Iain Glenn that den of geek mistook for fact.
Here is an audio of the DVD commentary that was posted on reddit just now:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1YyxoghdauT
So, it’s back to waiting for TWoW for anything more substantial on the topic 🙂
True, but a year will have passed between filming S5 and S6 ! Those dragons are fast growers LOL 😀 😉
I have heard this argument before, but no, his hair appeared shorter because it was tied up in a bun. I agree with what some others have said and believe this to be because it was a rehearsal or possibly between takes, and that the “man bun” is not something that will translate to the show. If you look at this particular frame from the trailer, for example, you can see that his hair is definitely a comparable length to the leaked photo:
http://i.imgur.com/AlH1gyT.jpg?2
With that said… I don’t think this is 100% definitely Jon, but it sure does look like it. Same armour as in the leaked photo, and the hair is a very strong distinguishing feature of Jon’s… I think EW would deny it because of their affiliation with HBO as well.
Bauer didn’t say that. The Cinema Blend writer did.
you snow nothing,
At first, I thought it was Davos 100% until others mentioned the Hound & I went back and listened a few times.
V,
I doubt he would put his hair up between takes because it would mess up the style. Could be a vision sequence but doubtful. I spotted unJon twice in the trailer. The other shot was that of Bolton shields lined up face to face with Tormund next to him though hard to tell. It also looked like him in the behind the scenes extra.
Sullied by Knight,
I think something must happen in the immediate aftermath of the assassination – something they hadn’t planned for, like Ghost, or the Wildlings, or Jon-loyalists discovering them, and some sort of violence ensuing. I don’t know why they would just leave him there otherwise.
Ice Spider,
Some of us were discussing something similar in another article’s comment section. What would make Davos trust Melisandre? How would Davos even know Melisandre could possibly resurrect Jon (unless Melisandre tells the story of Thoros resurrecting Beric in her scene with Davos from which we’ve seen glimpses)? I’m guessing, if Davos is to trust her in any way, she will not be revealing what happened to Shireen.
Phantom G,
I hold the resurrection will not be a clear-cut “Melisandre just resurrects Jon the way Thoros resurrected Beric” kind of thing. I think other elements will come into play. We’ll only know for sure when the episode airs.
Ice Spider,
I’m curious about this too. I wonder if the two of them are just so far in the depths of existential crisis, and are in this remote location, surrounded by the Night’s Watch, both mourning Stannis/the loss of the quests that have defined their lives, with no one who is familiar other than each other….maybe the only choice is to pull each other out of it.
In fact, I sort of wonder if Davos – who has, in the past, put pieces together in a way that others aren’t able to – coaches Mel out of her despair by suggesting an alternative interpretation of her visions, or prompting her to look into the flames again, where she then clearly understands that it’s Jon, and not Stannis, who was the subject of those visions. I wonder if that conversation that the two of them were having in the trailer takes place as Jon is being stabbed, and then they go out, find him, know that he’ll be back because they’ve seen it, and then set about figuring out how to make that happen.
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes he did.
“Between season three and season five, our shot count doubled,” says Bauer. He said there will be “other environments that we haven’t seen people in before”, and most excitingly, said: “The dragons will again be double in size.”
From http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-dragons-will-double-in-size-again-in-the-next-series-10317794.html
I thought EW was being sardonic.
What could Mel possibly do to redeem herself in the eyes of Davos? I can only think of one thing. Maybe she will ultimately fail to redeem herself unlike Jaime & Theon. Davos’ trust isn’t necessary. Jon’s dead. What harm could one last kiss do? Or saying a prayer during the funeral? Or dropping her own blood in the fire if she has any.
Davos may notice Ghost ain’t attacking everybody in sight & therefore must trust a few folks. Maybe Davos tries to stop Mel from erecting Jon’s corpse & Ghost intervenes. Davos must know the potential danger he & Mel are in after learning of Jon’s assassination. He’ll probably tell Mel they have to leave soon, especially her.
I find it interesting that both Davos and Mel will be thrust in a dire situation where they must aggressively defend themselves while Mel figures out what the snow in her flames really means (finally!), what she must quickly do with this important corpse, why Ghost’s eyes are suddenly familiar, and why Mormont’s raven is speaking to her?
Rygritte,
Yep, that scene plus the spooky music and camera shots when Jon and her lock eyes as she, Stannis and co. take off towards Winterfell. There are definitely scenes that foreshadow.
harlequeen,
Ya know, with all the Olly hate I’m surprised Thorne didn’t get more as well. Jon showed that a$$hole respect even though he never showed Jon any…At the battle of the wall, naming him first ranger. He put up with a lot from Alliser and still was honorable enough to be civil to him once he came into power and could have done what he wanted with him. Before Mother’s mercy I didn’t like Thorne but thought he had SOME kind of code of honor and eventually would come around to show himself in better colors but afterward I was shocked he did it and only have contempt for him. Not redeemable. And Jon was so kind to Olly it just doesn’t make sense how the boy could have done what he did. He must have been dafter than was shown in order to at least not understand the motivations behind Jon bringing the Wildings through.
Anyone who thinks Jon is going to be resurrected in the premiere is setting themselves up for disappointment. This is definitely going to get dragged out. There is going to be a whole process to get him resurrected.
Mark my words.
Mel will NOT just be able to bring Jon back. SHE HAS NO IDEA HOW TO DO IT.
I’m not so sure about that. She at least knows that it’s possible for the red priests. Her line to Thoros “you should not have this power” proves this.
And if she can pull a shadow baby out her poonanny then a lil bit of fancy ass CPR shouldn’t be be out of her reach. 😉
Neither did Thoros. He just prayed really really hard.
Apollo,
And also ( I forgot to mention)… There is great power in Kings blood. And a lot of it has just been spilled at castle Black (and much more kingly that Mel realises).
well hopefully it wont take too long. episode 2 or 3 would be good.
And what is your take on where Season 6 ENDS at? Like 6.10? Do you know for a fact what size Drogon will be around 6.09 or 6.10?
I know some super want Mel to just slap her hands together & make Jon reborn… and you’re going to whine about it for 6 episodes when it doesn’t happen. But if that was the solution to this problem, then it would be a complete waste of time. It has to be difficult. It has to have major consequences. Or else everyone can be resurrected.
GeekFurious,
Folks, many many comments all over the internet share the hope and expectation that Mellisandre will somehow revive Jon Snow. Thoros of Myr forshadowed a possibility of reviving the dead using the Red God but the process seems unclear. Mellisandre seemed stunned by the very notion & possibility, so she has no personal experience or idea as to how to do it. The Red Witch seems like the only hope for Jon & the fans.
So what if D&D are messing with our expectations in order to spring a huge WTF suprise on us. Let’s say the Mel trys repeatedly to revive Jon Snow but nothing happens deepening our loss as our hopes are dashed as Mel gives up. Then we see Jon’s eyes open and he says BRAN. I know I’m going to say “WHAT!!- WTF just Happened?” – Who actually saved Jon? & How? The writers Don’t tie everything up with a neat bow so we are left to ponder & guess.
So he’s going to revive and lead the climactic battle in a few episodes? Sure. Such a great arc!
you snow nothing,
After watching the clip today at the exhibit it seems that they are talking about Jon Snow.
When you say “it seems”, what does that mean, did they say Jon is gone or “he” is gone?
The only other way round I can think that this could possibly be is that Mel knew all along and it was a trap. We know she faked the sword to make Stannis believe her. Maybe she didn’t know who it was, but she knew that Stannis was the one to lead her to him. And when she found him she would require the Kings blood of Stannis and Shireen. Maybe she has even been keeping Davos alive because he is part of the master plan.
Ygritte,
Interesting thing about Thorne: He’s been at the wall for 17 years, banished for fighting for Targaryens against Robert. If he finds out the certain equation is true, man will that be awkward…
SnowLives,
Yes, never really thought about it that way! So he needs to live awhile longer so that we, and Jon himself can gloat over Alliser feeling salty when he realizes his folly and comes to a low point in his life.
I think the look on Thorne’s face and overall reaction, when/if he finds out, would be far more entertaining than him just being killed. Killing him would be quite boring.
SnowLives,
I don’t think this ever been mentioned on the show though. That Thorne fought for the Targeryens and that’s why he was sent to the Wall. So I doubt this will come up ahead, even if he lives long enough to find out Jon’s true parentage.
Could it be that is it just more dramatic to have them turn away after doing the deed? Also how could they get the finale scene they did with the NW milling about wringing their hands over what they did or trying to decide what to do next? Them leaving so the camera could swoop down and end up at Jon’s very dead face was the more dramatic way to close the season out. I think we will find out what the NW did after soon into the new season. Sometimes filming is all about the drama of the scene, not the logical sequence of it to others.
WiC has reported a really detailed account of the scene, and also confirmed that Davos and Mel are indeed taking about Jon. Guess we need to accept it (even if it doesn’t seem as logical).
Can Mel even read? Has anyone seen her read?
Apollo,
Why isn’t it logical? Because she didn’t mention it until now?
Sounds like