Game of Owns: High Heart | Watchers on the Wall | A Game of Thrones Community 2014

I’ve finally caught up with you guys. 🙂 I’ve got some comments about this podcast I listened to with a delay of a few days.

A couple of minor corrections, first:

– The desecrated sept that Arya and the Brotherhood found is not the same sept that Jaime and Brienne saw the Bloody Mummers desecrating. The Mummers killed the septon, hanging him in a tree and using him as archery target, while the septon of the sept from Arya’s chapter was still alive, and he was very sure that the guys who desecrated that sept were not Bloody Mummers, but northmen. I guess what we’re supposed to take from this is that this thing has been happening all over the Riverlands, and that Roose Bolton’s men desecrate and pillage septs just as the Mummers do. Though I guess Bolton’s men didn’t kill the septon, so they’re still not as bad as the Mummers (not that this is saying much, the Mummers being the worst of the worst).

– Tom’s song about floppy fish was not about Brynden Tully, it was about Edmure Tully.

About the little old lady with the prophetic dreams – while she obviously has supernatural abilities, there is nothing supernatural about her red eyes. Albinos have red eyes, and the old lady is obviously an albino from her description, even though they don’t seem to have the word for an albino in Westeros. (There are at least three albino characters in ASOAIF I can think of – one of them is a direwolf we all know, and the other is someone we’re still to meet in the books.)

Though at this point the mention of Jeyne Westerling’s grandmother and this old lady so close in the book could be confusing, there are lots of differences between them. Jeyne’s grandmother is from Essos, and described as a sorceress/witch/maegi, like Mirri Maz Duur, and she has skills in making potions etc., but there is no indication she is intrinsically supernatural. She’s also unlikely to be associated with the Old Gods and the Children of the Forest, being from Essos. The old dwarf albino lady from Arya’s chapter is from Westeros, she is not a sorcereress/maegi, she just seems to have green dreams like Jojen, and since she hangs out at the High Heart and only has her dreams as a currency to pay for songs, it seems that 1) she probably believes in the Old Gods and 2) she’s unlikely to have been married into any important and rich family like the Spicers, or have a high status children like Sybelle and Rolph Spicer.

Re: the drowned crow etc., there is absolutely no way to guess what that means if you’ve read up just to this point – you need to read the next book to understand the crow reference. This really should be filed down somewhere so you can come bacak to it later.

I really love Arya’s chapter, because, as Zack pointed out, it shows an alternative to the life we get to see in so much of ASOAIF; and there is a lot of romanticism in it, I don’t mean (just) in the coupley way, but mostly in the sense that it provides hope, it shows that people can find a way to not just survive but live free and find some happiness and be nice to each other, even in the midst of this horrible war and carnage tearing the Riverlands apart. But I also agree that it’s a very shippy chapter for Arya and Gendry – I don’t think they have any romantic feelings for each other at this point, since Arya is just 10-11, but there’s a potential and a setup for something romantic to happen between them in the future. I just wonder if it can still work after GRRM scrapped his plan to have a 5-year gap after A Storm of Swords.

Have you noticed that these two chapters had two ‘sexy’ fights in a row – Jamie/Brienne and Arya/Gendry, and also that there are a lot of songs featured in this book, more than they had been in the first two? After just 300 or so pages, I think we’ve already had the lyrics to some 5-6 songs. A song is being sung in almost every second chapter. The song in this chapter is one of the things that seem to be setting up Arya/Gendry, but it also is very meaningful in other ways, as it is about an alternative way of life – the man in the song talks about the conventional life, about making his beloved a lady and marrying her and protecting her, but she would prefer they live together free, as a “forest lass” and “her forest love”, indicating that some characters may choose a less conventional lifestyle (as the members of the Brotherhood certainly have).

Generally, I think that there’s romanticism and idealism in ASOAIF to counter all the apparent nihilism, and that people who think GRRM is nihilistic are wrong. This chapter is a sign of that. If people like Ned Stark failed, that does not mean that one should be a complete A-hole to survive (and we’ve since seen that being a complete A-hole like Tywin Lannister also is not good for ultimate survival!) – the mistake is trying to follow all the rules. You have to find a third way, retaining your idealism and having ethics that are not bound by the old and official rules.

I agree with Kate that Lady Smallwood is awesome – it’s great to see a highborn lady who’s so nice and at the same time doesn’t take any $hit from anyone and is the complete opposite of a prude. I didn’t know “nice-ass” was a word, but it’s awesome! 🙂

8 Comments

kdenn1020 says:

November 13, 2014 at 1:05 am

I was quite upset I didn’t see the tweet to get on the recording -_-
Logain says:

November 13, 2014 at 3:44 pm

nice one! @ Mycah: The ghost of high heart is not the same as Jeyne W. ‘s grandmother. They are both mentioned more than once but they are not the same
Micah says:

November 14, 2014 at 1:35 pm

Logain,

Thanks, I’ll definitely make mention on the next show. Didn’t realize you could have two almost identical characters, but guess we will learn about Maggy The Frog shortly.
Paul says:

November 14, 2014 at 2:01 pm

As someone who has read the series twice, the faceless man on the swaying bridge seems rather obvious, as i’m sure other fellow book readers agree. I’m looking forward to GOO finding out more about it!
Logain says:

November 14, 2014 at 5:02 pm

Micah,

Yeah it’s definitely cause for confusion!
Queenofthrones says:

November 16, 2014 at 12:46 pm

I’ve gotta admit, as a Brienne x Jaime shipper, that rolling around the mud together really gets my blood pumping. 😀
Annara Snow says:

November 18, 2014 at 10:59 am

I’ve finally caught up with you guys. 🙂 I’ve got some comments about this podcast I listened to with a delay of a few days.

A couple of minor corrections, first:

– The desecrated sept that Arya and the Brotherhood found is not the same sept that Jaime and Brienne saw the Bloody Mummers desecrating. The Mummers killed the septon, hanging him in a tree and using him as archery target, while the septon of the sept from Arya’s chapter was still alive, and he was very sure that the guys who desecrated that sept were not Bloody Mummers, but northmen. I guess what we’re supposed to take from this is that this thing has been happening all over the Riverlands, and that Roose Bolton’s men desecrate and pillage septs just as the Mummers do. Though I guess Bolton’s men didn’t kill the septon, so they’re still not as bad as the Mummers (not that this is saying much, the Mummers being the worst of the worst).

– Tom’s song about floppy fish was not about Brynden Tully, it was about Edmure Tully.

About the little old lady with the prophetic dreams – while she obviously has supernatural abilities, there is nothing supernatural about her red eyes. Albinos have red eyes, and the old lady is obviously an albino from her description, even though they don’t seem to have the word for an albino in Westeros. (There are at least three albino characters in ASOAIF I can think of – one of them is a direwolf we all know, and the other is someone we’re still to meet in the books.)

Though at this point the mention of Jeyne Westerling’s grandmother and this old lady so close in the book could be confusing, there are lots of differences between them. Jeyne’s grandmother is from Essos, and described as a sorceress/witch/maegi, like Mirri Maz Duur, and she has skills in making potions etc., but there is no indication she is intrinsically supernatural. She’s also unlikely to be associated with the Old Gods and the Children of the Forest, being from Essos. The old dwarf albino lady from Arya’s chapter is from Westeros, she is not a sorcereress/maegi, she just seems to have green dreams like Jojen, and since she hangs out at the High Heart and only has her dreams as a currency to pay for songs, it seems that 1) she probably believes in the Old Gods and 2) she’s unlikely to have been married into any important and rich family like the Spicers, or have a high status children like Sybelle and Rolph Spicer.

Re: the drowned crow etc., there is absolutely no way to guess what that means if you’ve read up just to this point – you need to read the next book to understand the crow reference. This really should be filed down somewhere so you can come bacak to it later.

I really love Arya’s chapter, because, as Zack pointed out, it shows an alternative to the life we get to see in so much of ASOAIF; and there is a lot of romanticism in it, I don’t mean (just) in the coupley way, but mostly in the sense that it provides hope, it shows that people can find a way to not just survive but live free and find some happiness and be nice to each other, even in the midst of this horrible war and carnage tearing the Riverlands apart. But I also agree that it’s a very shippy chapter for Arya and Gendry – I don’t think they have any romantic feelings for each other at this point, since Arya is just 10-11, but there’s a potential and a setup for something romantic to happen between them in the future. I just wonder if it can still work after GRRM scrapped his plan to have a 5-year gap after A Storm of Swords.

Have you noticed that these two chapters had two ‘sexy’ fights in a row – Jamie/Brienne and Arya/Gendry, and also that there are a lot of songs featured in this book, more than they had been in the first two? After just 300 or so pages, I think we’ve already had the lyrics to some 5-6 songs. A song is being sung in almost every second chapter. The song in this chapter is one of the things that seem to be setting up Arya/Gendry, but it also is very meaningful in other ways, as it is about an alternative way of life – the man in the song talks about the conventional life, about making his beloved a lady and marrying her and protecting her, but she would prefer they live together free, as a “forest lass” and “her forest love”, indicating that some characters may choose a less conventional lifestyle (as the members of the Brotherhood certainly have).

Generally, I think that there’s romanticism and idealism in ASOAIF to counter all the apparent nihilism, and that people who think GRRM is nihilistic are wrong. This chapter is a sign of that. If people like Ned Stark failed, that does not mean that one should be a complete A-hole to survive (and we’ve since seen that being a complete A-hole like Tywin Lannister also is not good for ultimate survival!) – the mistake is trying to follow all the rules. You have to find a third way, retaining your idealism and having ethics that are not bound by the old and official rules.

I agree with Kate that Lady Smallwood is awesome – it’s great to see a highborn lady who’s so nice and at the same time doesn’t take any $hit from anyone and is the complete opposite of a prude. I didn’t know “nice-ass” was a word, but it’s awesome! 🙂
Blind Beth says:

November 18, 2014 at 3:09 pm

Annara Snow: Generally, I think that there’s romanticism and idealism in ASOAIF to counter all the apparent nihilism, and that people who think GRRM is nihilistic are wrong. This chapter is a sign of that. If people like Ned Stark failed, that does not mean that one should be a complete A-hole to survive (and we’ve since seen that being a complete A-hole like Tywin Lannister also is not good for ultimate survival!) – the mistake is trying to follow all the rules. You have to find a third way, retaining your idealism and having ethics that are not bound by the old and official rules.

This, 100%. I was having a discussion yesterday with someone about how the GRRMiverse doesn’t seem to have any hard-and-fast rules of morality. He finds it nihilistic/depressing whereas I am totally fine with it. This is a great articulation of why I don’t find Westeros depressing. (Still don’t want to live there, though, lol.)

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