In an interview with The Hollywood Reporter, director Jeremy Podeswa goes behind the scenes of the Game of Thrones season 7 premiere, “Dragonstone.” He touched on Ed Sheeran’s ‘controversial’ cameo as well as other episode scenes.
“He’s certainly a big fan of the show. When they needed somebody who could sing for a little part…they just thought he was the right guy for those things. It was great. He was lovely to work with. He was lovely on the show. I think he fit right into that world. He’s so down to earth and really, really lovely,” says Podeswa. “He wanted to do a good job and was very concerned about that. He hung out with everybody on set all day, with all of the other guys sitting around the campfire…He was lovely. If you didn’t know that he makes hit records, you would have no idea from meeting him. He could not be more kind. He just wanted to do a good job. He was very cute. ”
It’s great to hear Ed Sheeran reported as being very friendly. The Game of Thrones cast has a reputation for being extremely nice, so now that he’s a member of that esteemed group, it’s always refreshing to hear that his reputation follows suit. Podeswa went on:
“The only thing he asked is if he could change the key of the song he was singing, and he asked it very tentatively. (Laughs.)
How absurd, really! The nerve of Sheeran!…Sigh…sometimes I’ll never understand the Outrage Box(™) that is the Internet. Moving on…Podeswa went on to talk about the opening scene with Maisie Williams and David Bradley:
“David’s performance is so fantastic where there’s a moment you can almost feel Arya inside of him. It’s even before the dialogue betrays who he is. There’s something about the performance that’s just very calculated…I had chills when we shot it and I hoped I would have chills when we cut it, and I did. I knew it was a great scene from the moment we shot it, really.”
Regarding the pivotal VFX shot of the White Walkers walking toward the camera, it took a lot more time to film than I’d realized:
“It was a very complex shot to create, but conceptually, it was an image that [showrunners] Dan [Weiss] and David [Benioff] had, which was very clear,” says Podeswa. “We knew it would be one shot. But it’s a shot that very slowly reveals itself over time, and we take that time. Then it was a matter of me conceptualizing it with the storyboard artists and visual effects department…It was a matter of calculating it and calibrating it, figuring out how they would reveal themselves through the haze of snow and wind.”
Regarding Sam’s terrible Citadel internship, Podeswa expanded on the unique editing, and how a change in tone for GOT was an exciting risk:
“It was very complex both tonally and practically because there were so many different sets and component pieces. Many of these sets only appear really for this montage…so many different elements that had to be built. It advances the story somewhat, but it was very much a character piece, really. It’s a very much uncharacteristic for the show, but one that was very satisfying to play with and try. We wanted it…to be funny and to play with that tone a bit…It said a lot about the Citadel and Sam’s life, but it had that extra thing that gives the audience that extra bit of pleasure.”
Well he was at the premiere last week, so I guess he finally decided he had to come clean! And BTW……he is 🔥🔥🔥!!! He was also 🔥 In Black Sails, I really liked that show! Poor Ed Sheeren probably regrets being in GoT now! People are so horrible! And the worst part is, they are fans of GoT!😔
Hold the Door!!
I really don’t get the craze over dogging Ed for his cameo. He’s not the first, nor will he be the last musician to cameo in a tv series or movie (or vice versa an actor in a music video). WINTER IS HERE and that’s all I care about!
I had no idea who the guy was, that he wasn’t just someone they found who could sing, until I started reading about people having some sort of problem with him being in the scene. I still don’t get the issue. Beyond the song, he said 9 words (yeah, I counted). He didn’t stand out to me for anything beyond having a nice voice.
So when are we going to see Randyll and Dickon again? Pretty sure the GA forgot about them.
The fact that it even needs defending is pretty pathetic.
That long shot was so darn good. I thought for a minute that the giant had only one eye, but it wouldn’t make sense to have a Wun Wun Wight, since he died at Winterfell.
I guess this answers the question of whether the scene was added for the sole purpose of having an Ed Sheeran cameo. I didn’t mind his appearance one bit. I thought he sang the song wonderfully.
I haven’t heard a single person trash talk Mr. Sheeran about his appearance. I’ve heard a lot of people say it took them out of the moment. Completely different.
I’d like to say I’ll never get people willfully misconstruing what someone else has said, but recreational outrage and self righteousness is very popular.
Fruitloops
I liked Ed Sheeran. People get far too serious about music. He has a voice to be proud of. I enjoyed the scene. The director doesn’t need to justify his decision.
No, you’re right, the giant did only have one eye, but that of course doesn’t make him Wun Wun.
Plus, Ramsay shot Wun Wun’s right eye. This giant wight was missing his left eye.
I want to send Ed Sheeren a card apologizing for those jerky fans after reading this.
Edd,
Good points.
A Heathen,
It wasn’t his decision anyway.
And of course nobody has to “justify” anything, but we shouldn’t discourage the directors and writers from explaining their choices either. It’s nice to have more insight into the process, especially when something gets a mixed reception.
Some ppl are saying it’s a vision of the future since there appears to be green grass… in which case it could be wun wun
QueenofThrones,
Wrong eye though. Wun Wun lost his right eye. This giant was missing his left eye.
I definitely knew who Sheeran was, and have heard some of his songs. But I had no idea what he looks like, so it didn’t occur to me that it was him in the scene until I read about it later. I thought he did fine, although people who recognized him may have been distracted.
D&D aren’t writing game of thrones as “real life” as they used to. The scenes don’t seem as real as they used to be. Game of Thrones was always a fantasy world but they made the scene look like real life.
Arya could of had some fun with Lannister soldiers when they offered her some rabbit… Ayra could of said “Your Queen has taught you well, Ladies first… always first”!! or “are you liking your the first of her name Queen Daenerys?” or “what’s the latest rumor you’ve heard about Queen Cercei?” Arya could have gained some rapport with the soldiers. That scene could of been so much better.
The ending was going for the dramatic, epic, awe inspiring scene but it seemed so forced and not “real” at all. I hope D&D get back to more reality.
I wasn’t bothered by the singer. Like many others I was wondering what happened to Edmure when Arya killed the Freys ( was he still in the dungeon?) and when Danerys met Varys – he was behind her in the boat. Last I remember she’d sneered that he was “King Robert’s spymaster” when Tyrion mentioned him to her. When did they get to be friends?
I don’t understand people having an issue with Sheeran being in a scene. Every season someone is doing a cameo. Last year it was Of monsters and men. I mean, did we need to see the shot with them above the theater troop? No, did not add anything to the scene. So Ed sang and said a couple of words. Big whoop. He did a great job and actually added to the scene., IMHO.
What I found out of place was the metal bridge Arya came across, I know, I am nitpicking.
QueenofThrones,
Wun Wun lost his right eye, this giant was missing his left eye, so they aren’t the same.
Newbietothegame,
Yeah, I guess a metal bridge is pretty anachronistic.
I found Ed’s appearance gratuitous and distracting, but that has nothing to do with him personally. I would say the same thing if Bruce Springsteen had shown up in a cameo. However, people are making a big deal out of a nothing burger and letting it distract from all the good stuff in the episode. I guess you can blame D&D for that. On another note, since they said this was a gift for Maisie, anyone thinking it might be the famous parting gift they give to cast members who get the Sopranos walk?
Footnote: I like “Galway Girl”. (ducks)
Newbietothegame,
I think it has to do with him being so recognizable and getting a big close up, not to mention sitting next to Arya the whole scene. The other singers I wouldn’t recognize if my life depended on it.
Jack Bauer 24,
GA? and next episode.
I think people just like to complain, and when one is as popular as Ed Sheeran, a lot of hate comes with the territory – I bet most of the loudest complainers don’t like his music.
There are so many very recognizable guest actors on this show, this episode alone had David Bradley again and Jim Broadbent – both have been in a lot of tv and movies – most notably the Harry Potter films, so much so that many call Walder -> Filch, his HP character name because it is easier for them to remember. I don’t hear anyone complaining that seeing them takes them out of the scene… at least not with such hate.
Edd,
Except there actually are a bevy of harsh comments regarding Ed’s scene. Even on the official YouTube page his scene is marginally more disliked than any video of similar view. Some even cited that his two line role RUINED the episode. Overall it was a mixed reaction but there were plenty of nasty comments.
firstone,
That seems like such a ridiculous gripe to me. No offense. Arya wasn’t going to make jokes and small-talk with Lannister men she was wary about. Why would she ask them what Cersei has taught them? They’ve probably never even been in direct contact with her. It wouldn’t have made sense. And the other comments wouldn’t make the scene anymore “real life” as you say.
The only reason she made the comment about killing the queen is because unbeknownst to them, that is her actual goal. Good thing they expected nothing more from a wanderer from the Riverlands.
I keep seeing people talk about Edmure, maybe the writers forgot about him, or they will have a quick dialog somewhere to explain what happens to him. I doubt they forgot, but perhaps the actor is just too busy and they couldn’t work out a schedule to shoot around?
If they never resolve it, I like to think that since they made a point of showing Arya only taking out the male Freys, that the females are still wandering around (they were not invited to the feast), so that means Roselyn Tully (Edmure’s Frey wife) is still alive, and since all the men are gone, she will free him. It is shown in the books that she is fond of her husband, so unless they tell us otherwise, I assume show Roselyn is the same.
I honestly would be totally fine with Ed Sheeran, and might still be, but the major issue I have is: did they write that scene with the sole purpose of getting Ed Sheeran into the show? To me it was a very poor scene, I guess maybe to show that Arya still has some humanity? But I honestly thought she was in psycho killer mode and that would be part of her arc: the lengths you go to for revenge. It confused the characterization of Arya a bit, and if it was only to get Ed Sheeran on there, then I would have MAJOR MAJOR problems with that. But it’s possible there might be more to her relationship with these Lannister soldiers, but if they just disappear from the show after this, it’ll be a little wow. It would just add more fuel to the fire that D & D are checked out, for whatever reason.
Since you are all so interested in my comments… I have one more.
Game of Thrones D&D needs to have a few scenes that aren’t so serious all the time. Like Tyrion drinking and playing games with Shae and Bronn. Bronn walking and talking with his fiancee. Arya practicing with Needle doing the water dance. Or Ygritte teasing Jon Snow pushing having fun pushing his buttons. Even Cersei and King Rob had a conversation that was down to earth and very real. King Rob and lightness and a point of view that wasn’t very serious at all.
The pace of the show needs to ebb and flow a little better. Did you make it to the end? Well done if you did.
That is your problem, we don’t really know what Arya’s ultimate story arc is, you are assuming that. It gets even more confusing as they seem to be merging Arya with another character’s story arc in the books, so maybe it muddies the reading a bit like Sansa storyline can be confusing (one step forward, another step back) in past seasons when they merged her with another weaker character.
The directory says they needed a singer, and Ed is friends with many of the younger people on this show, so they asked – seems simple enough to me, and if nothing more is done (like all the other musician cameos – one and done) I don’t think it will ruin anything.
firstone,
Did we watch the same episode? There was Sam’s zany montage at the Citadel (as grotesque as it was I still got a slight chuckle the first time), and Tormund’s googly eyes at Brienne as she was sparring with Pod. And did I almost forget the many great one liners the Hound had? It’s clear D&D aren’t going to let this season be devoid of comedy.
And to be honest, it’s a season that kicks off the Great War. If there was a sharp decline in comedy relief I wouldn’t mind because the time for shits and giggles is over for the GOT characters.
They answered this question in the article. “When they needed somebody who could sing for a little part…they just thought he was the right guy for those things.” The scene had already been written before they asked Ed Sheeran to join. As for the scene itself, yes, it was to show Arya still had humanity. I’m not sure how it confuses her characterization. She was surprised that the Lannister soldiers were so ordinary and were not the monsters she was accustomed to. It was a quiet scene, but the quiet scenes are part of the reasons why his show is so great. Even in season 7, character development is still a priority.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
The theory I read was that
Edward,
As Jaqen h’ ghar has said “You have a point” The Hound did have quite a few funny one liners. Samwell is boring and
is not funny to me at least. Tormund’s google eyes has been done at least a couple times already.. it’s getting old. Brienne’s counter look of disgust is old now too. One battle leading to the next and then another one… I am looking forward to the Dawn of Spring. I want to learn about Varys and who he really is and what he is really after. I know I know I should stop complaining and enjoy it for how good it continues to be.
I also want to see
I hope to see Hopper in some action scenes. He was great in Black Sails so it will be great to see him here.
viki,
Young Dragon,
OK but this goes back to my issues with how they ruined the characterization of Arya last season. They whitewashed the character. This used to be a show about grey characters, even the heroes. Arya should’ve been a tragic character, one who should’ve done something really really bad to acquire the powers that she did. Instead, they turned her into a typical Marvel / Disney hero with no depth.
What they’ve done with Arya is reflective of what they’ve done with the entire show since last season. They’ve even done the same with the Hound, he’s also supposed to be a grey character and last episode I felt they went a little overboard with him.
Another example: at the Red Wedding Catyln Stark slit the throat of Frey’s wife after Rob was killed. It was a fucked up thing to do, but it was a total GoT beat: the reality of human nature isn’t always so neat and nice. In her hysteria after seeing her son die, she takes her anger out on an innocent person in order to exact revenge. One that Walder Frey didn’t even care about losing. Fast forward to Arya cold open and how she spares the life of all the women, even ones that were probably complicit with what Frey was doing and didn’t do anything to stop the Red Wedding. Is Ivanka Trump and Melania Trump totally innocent from what Trump does? Or do they play a role in supporting him and doing nothing to stop him? This was pandering to the newly sensitive millennial audience who freak out about any violence against women on a show.
Anyhow, as the audience of the show got larger and more of the usual sensitive people came on board, I guess they had to change the show. It’s sad because there are millions of other Marvel / Disney properties per year that have the same boring type of story telling and GoT was the one thing that was special and unique.
firstone,
I’m also interested in Varys’ background. Good thing Conleth has stated that this season we’ll delve into his past and get some good characterization! Can’t wait.
Jack Bauer 24,
In the preview for ep. 2, you can
The best video review is here:
LatrineDiggerBrian,
You lost the argument the moment you tried to compare Arya with a Disney/Marvel hero. Name one Disney/Marvel hero that fed a villain his sons before slitting his throat. Name one Disney/Marvel hero that poisoned an entire room of people. If Arya had killed the women too, where there’s no evidence they were complicit in the Red Wedding, she wouldn’t have been grey. She would have been black. Arya is neither a hero or a villain, which is the definition of a grey character. She does really bad things for morally justifiable reasons.
You’re right about the Hound. He’s much softer as a person. It’s called character development.
Oh ffs he just has 2 lines.
i really don t know why people still pay attention in this LatrineDiggerBrian, the guy is just a troll, complaining about EVERYTHING, some other members here already told me that, the episode was really good, had amazing critics all over and its the FISRT time i dont saw any bad reaction to premiere of GOT, and i saw more than 100.
just leave this troll aside. easy.
Young Dragon,
Damn you win
Not really sure why there is controversy over a singer making an appearance to the point where he has to quit twitter, it was a scene with a song and he did it. I say that who doesen’t know or really care who he is anyway…
David Bradley was brilliant, as I’ve said in another article, played the creepy pervert great in S1, the slighted Lord in S3 and now Arya-in-Walder in S6, all minor tweaks of the same character but this takes a lot of skill to pull off, made you as an audience member feel exactly what we were meant to feel and a big well done to him
Will be interesting to see what the point of re-casting Dickon was, perhaps this guy is better suited to action scenes?
Liked the opening shot…just need them Ice Spiders!
Flayed Potatoes,
This. A thousand times this.
Young Dragon,
“She does really bad things for morally justifiable reasons.” This is NOT a grey character. A grey character is someone like Jaime Lannister who does reprehensible things but also has some redeeming stuff: in his case he’s trying to get better. I was exaggerating a bit when I said she’s a Disney / Marvel character, but the fact of the matter is, the show is heading towards that type of story telling where it’s more black and white as in good versus evil instead of the between areas.The only difference between Marvel is the show is still more bloody.
If Arya killed Lady Crane to get her powers, then she slit the throat of Frey’s bride like her mother did, THEN she would be a grey character. And honestly, I wish they went in that direction, it would’ve been 10x more interesting than Marvel Arya.
You make zero sense, and I wish you’d quit watching the show and go away if it disappoints you as much as you claim.
Pigeon,
I make plenty of sense. Make a counter point if you disagree with me. Or else you’re just trolling and not really adding anything to the discussion.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
You really don’t know what you are talking about.
firstone,
Ye gods, i hope that’s not true. It would kind of put a dent in the other theory that said the scene was in there to show Arya’s humanity, that she hadn’t turned into a killing machine. Gah
Aguero,
It’s really hard to argue with someone so removed from reality.
If Arya had killed Lady Crane and Frey’s wife, then she wouldn’t be grey. She’d be full on the “bad” side of the spectrum.
I think we have to accept that not all of the people can be pleased all of the time. I didn’t personally have a problem with Ed Sheeran and really his scene was quite small but if people have bees in their bonnet about it I guess they will have bees* in their bonnet. For myself I can’t be a***d to argue the toss, though I will say something similar to what I mentioned on another thread – I felt that the scene gave some insight of the experiences in the war of people who were not noble or aristocratic (and I always understood from the books that GRRM had empathy with the “small folk” and I’m pleased to see a little of that trickle down to the show).
* Link explaining the meaning of “bee in your bonnet” in case there are any people whose native language is not English and have not come across the phrase before. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/bee-in-your-bonnet.html
On a slightly different note, I didn’t realise Tom Hopper was bottle blonde in “Merlin” (haven’t seen “Black Sails” – it’s on my to watch list) – unless his dark hair is the shade that comes out of a bottle.
mau,
OK well thanks for chiming in — sorry for having a different opinion than you.
You guys accuse me of having a totally negative view of everything about the series but that’s not the case, like I’ve said I enjoyed the first 5 seasons immensely. I think the opposite is true about some of you guys though.
Miss Stark,
I don’t agree with this. By this reason, is Jaime Lannister full on bad? Sure, if Arya killed Lady Crane it would’ve been a very bad thing to do and it would have tarnished her significantly, but I still think she would’ve had enough good about her to still be grey. Also, I’m guessing Arya would’ve regretted killing Lady Crane as soon as she did the deed. It would haunt her.
Sheeran sang beautifully. Whatever you think of his regular songs, if you are being honest and not a bullying twat, you have to recognize a beautiful voice for what it is.
The scene itself was cute, quickly humanizing a group of Lannister soldiers which makes it a key moment for Arya’s character development because it was clear she genuinely liked them and probably intended to kill them and steal their weapons based on the looks she was giving their swords. IMO all of these moments that show there is some complexity to Arya’s murderous tendencies are valuable.
My guess is these guys may be doomed to be wolf’s sheep anyway but if so that possible scene too will be valuable for moving Arya’s story.
If that is what you guys concluded about that scene than you completely missed it. Was all about Agra not Ed
I really enjoy Ed Sheerans music. However, the scene definetely was distracting. I see so many people calling us distracted people “haters”. A bit ridiculous.
I wish somebody would edit the scene and put Donald Trumps head on one of the Lannister shoulders so they can experience how jarring and out of place the cameo feels.
It was wood.
I do not enjoy music and only vaguely aware of this singer’s existence. I had no idea who he was when he was on screen. His performance was good…in fact, to the point of standing out somewhat in my mind.
If you are whining about him “taking you out of the scene”, then you understand how I feel every three minutes when D&D write something that doesn’t add up if you think about it, or leaves all sorts of unanswered questions that require major leaps of faith to skip over. Euron’s armada? Seriously, it took real-world navies of the corresponding era a year or more to build each ship! Of course they could do this in parallel, but not 1000x parallel. Arya as a Frey? How did she pull off the con for weeks? Where did she get the poison, how did she transport something so wildly deadly, and how did she ensure that no one sampled the wine early and thus foiling her plans? No one at Dragonstone? Where did Stannis’s townsfolk, women and children go?
It’s kinda strange to me that D&D wrote a scene to show that Arya still had some humanity… or a conscience. There has never been any doubt in my mind that Arya has humanity.
When Arya took out some soldiers sitting in a group it was because the soldiers were joking or bragging about killing someone in the Stark family.
Arya choose not to be a Faceless Man because Faceless Men do as they are told without discrimination or conscience and Arya definitely has humanity.
Chad Brick,
Arya didn’t keep up the con for weeks lmao. Where’d you get that idea? The Cold Open obviously happened shortly after she claimed Walder’s life. The show’s timeline fluctuates but I thought it was fairly clear that Arya did it all in one fell swoop.
The Armada situation is a valid critique but everything else seems very nitpicky. You seriously wanted to have a scene of Arya gathering the poison and transporting it? Do you know how montonous that’d be? Common sense would say that a castle has plenty of lethal substances holed up in some storage room. You can fill in the blanks and they aren’t far fetched at all.
Did someone else notice the differences? I spotted them right away, just because I was always enamored with that set. The dragon carved into the wall has a completely different look to it than it did in past seasons. And the columns are a pentagonal prism (or tetragonal?) instead of plain cylindrical. The old dragon was more menacing but this one makes more sense in terms of artistic style for the era, and it stands out more. As for those polished Tuscan order columns, they always looked completely out of place in Dragonstone.
I like architecture, okay? 😛
Rella,
Hiii 🙂
I completely agree with you with everything, especially Black Sails. Love that’s how 🙂
“David’s performance is so fantastic where there’s a moment you can almost feel Arya inside of him. It’s even before the dialogue betrays who he is. There’s something about the performance that’s just very calculated…I had chills when we shot it and I hoped I would have chills when we cut it, and I did. I knew it was a great scene from the moment we shot it, really.”
This is exactly how I feel when I watch that scene. Truly spectacular performance.
The funny thing about all the criticism about Sheeran is that it wasn’t even the worst thing about the episode, yes it was distracting and I hope they don’t pull a similar stunt again in the future, but it was no more than that. Euron’s new costume, on the other hand, seemed totally out of place, and cannot be put down as a stunt. Michele Clapton has designed some wonderful costumes over the years, but this was not one of them, and I hope they don’t have him in it again. It just didn’t seem to fit Westeros (or Planetos) at all, and was actually much more of a distraction than the Sheeran debacle.
I’m the same way. I am not a follower of Ed Sheeran so I didn’t recognize him the first time I saw the scene. And I was actually expecting him to show up in a pub somewhere from all that I read during the off season. To me, it fit right in. My first thought was that he was young!!! and these were all very young Lannister boy soldiers. And I think that was a theme of the scene to humanize both Arya and some of the Lannister soldiers. If you think about it, in many battles you just see thousands of figures in faceless armor from afar, so it’s great to take a second and realize that many are just young boys who are hoping to make it home. It makes me think of how many died during the Civil War and how many were so young.
There is alot of singing on GOT, and this felt like it was in the GOT world. This seems to be what soldiers do to pass the time! The Boltons sang “The Bear and the Lady Fair”, and Bron regularly sings. The Lannisters like to sing the Lannister song in pubs. I also don’t follow Snow Patrol, and I just realized from reading this week that Gary Lightbody sang the Bear song and I didn’t pick up on that either since I don’t really follow the band. So to me, these pop stars did a nice job fitting in to the GOT World. And I’m happy for Maisie. She is a fan, and I think this was a good scene for her to realize that she is still human after becoming such as powerful killer.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
They will disappear from the show, theyre not her new travelling troupe lol
That scene was part of Arya’s character arc. Nothing more nothing less.
Pigeon,
LOOL
Chad Brick,
Ive never heard that before in my life. “I do not enjoy music”
First for everything. LOL
Respectfully I do think Latrine has a point in that Arya has been turned into a superhero of sorts. She has ‘powers’ that are more in keeping with current popular movie franchises about superhumans down to the poses and faces she makes after kills.
It explains a lot though!
Knight of the Walkers,
Euron’s crazy and anachronistic costume is the point. Here’s an outrageous douche pirate king who’s been in exile for over ten years and sailed all around the world. Who knows what sublime fashion sense he picked up on those 14 seas he mentioned! 😉
Seriously now, I thought it suited him perfectly. Being kinda off-putting, slimy, menacing yet funny and almost charming is exactly how I imagined Euron.
lucy,
Bran is a warg. Does it make you think of Doctor X
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
LOL
Mr Fixit,
I thought he looked much better than last season. More menacing and intriguing than the slovenly oaf that turned up at the Kingsmoot.
And let’s not forget that he’s there to win over a queen, not just “a lot of very unattractive people” on the Iron Islands.
Of course he was going to come dressed and styled for the part.
Apparently Ed Sheeran had to delete his twitter account because of the high volume of abuse he received for his cameo in GOT. Seriously what is that about, he was actually very good I felt and it was a cameo where he was never centre of attention!
The interesting part of the Arya scenes is how important she considers the concept of guest right. “When a guest eats food and drink from the host’s table, no violence shall occur.”
In the case of the Freys, she offered only drink. No food was served.
For the Lannisters, she accepted their drink.. but only accepted the food once she had decided not to try to kill them.
Edward,
Arya says it’s been two weeks since the previous feast, and that she summoned every Frey who means a damn thing to come to this one.
So maybe she killed Walder a few days after the first feast, the one with Jaime, but she must have been in control of the Twins for a few days as well, to account for the time between her summoning of all the Frey men and their arrival.
Grayven Reyne,
Actually she accepted the food before accepting the blackberry wine from the Lannister men.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I don’t like music either.
Dee Stark,
Totally agree, the nuances were there, just goes to show you what a masterclass in acting looks like. For a second I did think it was some sort of flashback, but once I picked up that he was behaving differently, I figured out what was coming. Hugely entertaining scene.
Luka Nieto,
I was thinking I should check what Dragonstone looked like when Stannis was there. Because I can’t remember any dragons at all, only some dragon statues. I know it’s filmed in a different place, so I assumed that there would be some differences. Gonna check it better when I have the time.
I know it’s not real, but I must be strange for Dany to see all those dragon references her ancestors made. Although in slaver’s bay she was closer to where the Targaryens originally came from.
Grayven Reyne,
The other part of the scene which appealed to me was how it referenced Meribald’s speech from last season (and more so from the books). How wars affect the common folks; the soldiers, their families etc. The ones who start the wars; kings, queens, the Starks, Lannisters, Tyrells etc, aren’t as affected. They play their game of thrones and suffer casualties to be sure, but it’s the soldiers that bear the brunt of it.
Arya killing Lady Crane would have been actually worse than anything Jaime Lannister ever did. Jaime tried to kill Bran in (a twisted form of) self/family defense. He killed jory and Ned’s men and injured ned in retribution because Catelyn captured Tyrion (similar to some stuff Aryas done).
Killing LC would have been a horrible crime that Arya should have to later become redeemed for if we are ever going to like her again. That’s not quite Aryas character. She is always struggling with her identity as either Ned Starks daughter or someone who will avenge the Starks (and enjoying It too much sometimes). She is trying to walk that line, she goes back and forth. Like that terribly sad line in the books where she wonders if her mother would even love her anymore after the people she’s killed. She is not LSH.
This makes her Grey. Most of those Frey men were just following orders and didn’t really deserve to die IMO. If baking freys sons into the pie wasn’t dark enough for you I don’t know what was.
BTW I agree with you that Aryas storyline last season was mostly a mess (especially the end… wat). But so far this season is doing a much better job.
Markus Stark,
she must have been in control of the Twins for a few days as well
We needed a montage of Arya ruling the Twins before the feast : )
I think it would have done just as well as Sam’s.
The Punisher, Deadpool, Wolverine, Jessica Jones, the whole of the Suicide Squad…
And, if we do not limit ourselves to comic books, we can also point towards westerns as well as samourai and kung-fu movies promoting the idea that bloody revenge looks badass and cool as long as the “good guys” do it.
Protagonist-centered morality is a potent tool indeed. However, I agree with you and feel that Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire tend to stay away from it. Neither the show nor the novels “praise” Arya for the murders. They do not portray them in a glorifying light at all instead presenting them as emotionally understandable but morally questionable (at best)
The books, thanks to the POV chapters, are obviously more able to address and explore Arya’s inner turmoil, the emptiness that systematically follows the self-righteous euphoria of the kills. But the show does as good a job as it can to signal those conflicting and tragic emotions as well.
Our response as an audience is an entirely different ball of wax though.
Imagining Euron preening and fussing in front of his mirror while humming Right Said Fred’s I’m Too Sexy* makes me happy on a molecular level.
*Scratch that; he’d go for Queen’s Killer Queen
This is false. Sheeran had said weeks ago that he was not reading his twitter feed anymore because people were being mean to him, but he was still tweeting. Then he removed his account after the episode aired but now has reactivated it but only to put up a message saying to follow him on Instagram.
Twitter is rife with anonymous people being abusive to other people especially celebrities so his frustration and decision to not use it anymore is understandable. But, I don’t know, deleting the account right after the show aired when he had already claimed he wasn’t reading it anymore is just coming across to me as attention-seeking on his part.
When that scene aired during the episode his appearance didn’t bother me at all but now I see it as unnecessary stunt casting that has distracted from the episode due to the Twitter kerfuffle. Hopefully the show will avoid celebrity appearances in the future.
lucy,
Ayra has become like a superhero with the ability to survive and heal quickly from major gash wounds by a knife in her gut… fall into a canal of dirty disgusting water with open wounds. Leap from high buildings without breaking any bones and kill a faceless man apprentice in the dark who has been kicking Arya’s ass for two seasons. Maybe Arya’s superhero power came from the water she drank in the House of Black and White.
Markus Stark,
Same same.
Chuck,
I just kept thinking why are they complaining? They’re pretty lucky.. food, drink, very clean uniforms, obviously get to shower fairly often. I mean, it’s not like being in the Tyrell army or anything, but still a mostly cushy assignment.
Ha! Well, at least that would be an explanation.
Honest to God, if a 90-second cameo RUINED the episode for you, then put down the remote before you actually stick it up your ass or something. You are that much of a functioning moron.
I’m not exactly sure you should be watching this show. Or any show. Or anything except the shadows that cross your padded cell when the moonlight comes through the window with bars on the outside.
I am blissfully happy I had no idea who Ed Sheeran was, still am not fully sure which one of the randos at the campfire he was playing and really don’t care to add this to my already-awesome pool of knowledge.
The scene did the following:
1) Give Arya a chance to learn about what’s up at King’s Landing
2) Give her a breather and a chance to re-connect with her humanity. (Notice how she initially tries to refuse the food, just to keep her options open…)
3) Gives us a minute to see how Cersei’s batshit craziness affects the average soldier. Supposedly, this is one of the things people like about the tedious Books 4 and 5.
OR
1) When these guys are dead in the cold open this week and we learn it was Arya/Nymeria/Lady Stonebritches/All of the Above, it lets us mourn just how far Arya has fallen.
Either way, it wasn’t a useless scene, this was a harmless cameo and apparently, it made Maisie happy.
I stand with Maisie. The rest of you can go stand in that big vat of poop soup Sam was dumping the bedpans into.
Lady Lyanna Mormont for the iron throne!,
Im pretty sure bringing her Dorne and the Reach smoothed over any problems they may have had. Or the month or so they spent on the same ship together, not to forget Tyrion’s relationship with both.
Before killing all the Frey men, she saw that they were all raising their toast and cheering when she talked about the Red Wedding. I think this was her way of ensuring the guilt of all the assembled men.
Yeah that surprised me too (tho there is that line in Hallelujah so I guess its not totally unusual) There is some music that I don’t enjoy but all? No. But different strokes and all that.
ash,
different strokes for sure.. just never heard that before hahaha
lucy,
More believable than a radioactive spider-bite imo.
Chad Brick,
Didn’t Euron sail right past Dragonstone as well without even checking to see if he could take it?
QueenofThrones,
I disagree that killing Lady Crane would be any worse than what Jaime did. He attempted to murder a 9 year old boy and killed his cousin brutally just to use him as a distraction so he could escape.
“…if we are ever going to like her again”. You say it like it’s mandatory. That’s the whole point of grey characters, you’re on the fence about them. You like certain things about them, but other things they do are unforgivable. They’re complicated and this show has been full of them. To me a compromised Arya would be much more interesting than what we currently have and I would be more forgiving of the Frey scene if they had gone in that direction — especially if she decided to kill all the Freys and not spare just the women.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Jaime is a grey character as well. Like Arya, he does reprehensible things for morally justifiable reasons. He pushed Bran out a window to keep Cersei and his children safe. If Robert found out, they would have been killed. He killed the Stark men in the streets to send the Starks a message to return his little brother at once. He killed his cousin to get to give him a chance to escape and take away the Starks’ leverage, giving the Lannisters a better chance to win this war. He stabbed the Mad King in the back to save 500,000 people from wild fire. Forget Arya, that was probably the most “superhero” thing anyone in the show has ever done.
Tycho Nestoris,
If Euron had stopped at the empty Dragonstone, he would have had to replace the Baratheon banners.. and the Ironborn do not sew.
Damn, when I hear Marvel, I think of Iron Man, Captain America, and all the other Avengers. I totally forgot about these darker Marvel characters. To be fair, I’m pretty sure LatrineDiggerBrian had the Avengers in mind as well. Also, this really isn’t important, but Suicide Squad is DC 🙂
Grayven Reyne,
you win the internet *golf clap*
Tycho Nestoris,
Nope, Dragonstone is North of King’s Landing 😉
Young Dragon,
I think you’re misusing “morally justifiable”. Throwing a 9 year old boy out a window is never morally justifiable. Turning your cousin into a corpse to use him as a prop is never morally justifiable. Maybe it’s justifiable in a sense, but the person justifying either thing would definitely have a warped sense of morality.
Jaime never had to throw Bran out the window. They could’ve simply denied it and it would’ve been his word versus Jaime’s and Cersei’s. Also, anyone with decent morals would probably prefer to try and lie and maybe risk their lives than murder an adolescent. Same with his cousin, anyone with morals or honor would choose death or try to find another way rather than do such an awful thing like that. It would never even be an option.
Arya has not done anything as close to as bad as Jaime. She’s killed a few awful people, that’s it. She’s not a grey character because you’re not conflicted about her. Most people were probably cheering when she killed the Freys or Meryn Trount.
A true grey character is someone the audience is conflicted about. They have both irredeemable and redeeming qualities.
Dutch Maester,
What does it matter that it’s north? Before the Panama canal we sailed south to go west.
Dragonstone is at the mouth of the Blackwater. How’s he get to Blackwater (and then KL) without passing close to Dragonstone?
Tycho Nestoris,
When you have an appointment with the Queen, I’m not sure if sailing hundreds of miles out of your way on the off-chance that you could capture an island fortress which you would then be forced to defend against the armada sailing your way would be a priority.
Yara said it last season, “We can defeat anyone at sea. But we’ll never hold lands and castles against mainland armies”.
Also, they made a point of telling us that Euron attacked Casterly Rock and burnt the Lannister fleet to spark the Greyjoy rebellion. Perhaps he intends to do the same to Daenerys at Dragonstone.
His strength is on the open sea and raiding unsuspecting enemies. Not holding fortresses.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I’m not sure if sailing hundreds of miles out of your way on the off-chance that you could capture an island fortress which you would then be forced to defend against the armada sailing your way would be a priority
Well, he’s presumably now trapped in Blackwater or outside of it. I think he’d prefer to hold the castle rather than skirting the armada any time he wants to come or go. This was the whole reason Stannis was considered a threat to KL early on.
Or Cersei should’ve had him take it prior to arriving as Jaime stated that it was abandoned.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
You’re right. Morally justifiable isn’t the correct word. Jaime’s and Arya’s actions aren’t morally justifiable, they’re morally understandable. Sure, most people may not believe Bran, but some might, including Ned. Lord Stark was just named Hand of the King and will have the power and resources to keep an eye on Jaime and Cersei. Living life under those suspicions would endanger Jaime, Cersei, and their children every day. Jaime felt he had no choice but to end Bran’s life, for the sake of his family. If what you’re saying is true, Jaime simply pushed Bran out the window for no reason at all. That’s not grey, that’s black. Killing a young child for shits and giggles is something that Joffrey or Ramsay would have done.
You’re wrong about Arya. There are plenty of people who are conflicted with her actions. Some go as far as calling her a psychopath, and others, like myself, are very worried about the dark path she is heading down. Arya can never be described as white after her actions these past two episodes. Feeding a father his own sons is seriously messed up.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Actually, a lot of people are conflicted about Arya. Yeah, we cheer for her, but some of her actions are pretty unsettling. The way she killed Meryn Trant? Baking Frey’s sons into a pie? Like someone said up-thread, if that’s not dark enough for you, then I don’t know what is. I love Arya, but she is on a vengeance arc. Did she really need to kill an entire room full of people, some of whom were likely only guilty by association? I mean, I cheered, but it definitely wasn’t honorable.
Tycho Nestoris,
It’s the difference between Euron being in an offensive or defensive position.
There’s no point taking Dragonstone unless you intend to hold it. And to hold it against Daenerys’ armada would have taken a gargantuan effort, especially with the threat her dragons pose.
Rather than being tasked with defending Dragonstone, Euron instead has the freedom to attack Daenerys’ fleet on his own terms.
He won’t be trapped in Blackwater Bay. Despite the size of Daenerys’ fleet I wouldn’t have thought she’d be able to blockade the Blackwater against a fleet the size of Euron’s.
Miss Stark,
All of them loved Ned but have learned the hard way that his path and doctrine didn’t always yield the best results.
It was being reported by the news here in the UK Coffee but sounds like you know more (genuinely). Totally wrong to abuse him in my eyes.
Edd,
I read a few reviews on Monday and saw lots of trash talk in the comment sections underneath.
I’ve now watched the episode half a dozen times and have no issue with him being in the scene. He did a fine job, just as good as any of the other Lannister soldiers. If he acted terribly that’s one thing, but apart from being who he is he blended fine.
The thing that actually stood out for me that I would have liked to be a little different was with Arya. No, not Maisie, but how they had her approach the men. Of course Arya would be tentative and dissect the situation to determine dangers but they had her display more initial fear than I would expect. I would have liked to see her enter the camp confident while also appraising the danger, especially after what she had just accomplished at The Twins.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
He won’t be trapped in Blackwater Bay. Despite the size of Daenerys’ fleet I wouldn’t have thought she’d be able to blockade the Blackwater against a fleet the size of Euron’s.
What about the dragons you mentioned? Those should serve as a pretty spectacular blockade.
I don’t want to start big discussion like it’s LF’s jetpack. I just think it’s strange that Euron is going in and out of Backwater (out to presumably get this “gift”) while Daeny is based at Dragonstone. It is especially strange because he got thereabouts first and it was abandoned.
Tycho Nestoris,
Where does it say in the show that one has to sail past Dragonstone to get from the Iron Islands to King’s Landing? The Iron Islands are on the west coast and Dragonstone is on the east.
Tycho Nestoris,
Fair enough.
I just figure that there’s no point in either the Lannisters or Euron capturing Dragonstone unless they planned to defend it to the last.
The Lannisters probably don’t have the ships to defend Dragonstone, King’s Landing and Casterly Rock at the same time.
And Euron probably sees remaining mobile and on the offensive as his advantage over Daenerys, who will have to capture fortresses, ports and lands and hold them in order for her conquest to succeed.
Young Dragon,
i am sure Euron used google maps and took the fastest way
Young Dragon,
I don’t follow? What is the alternative? Going over land or through rivers? Euron landed in the KL port. To do so, he sailed through Blackwater. To get to Blackwater, he passed (near) Dragonstone.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Yeah, in the end they won’t be able to defend any of it (including KL), so why bother with Dragonstone? It’s just was weird to me for them to pass the castle right before Daeny does.
Wait are people saying Euron should have tried to go get rid of Dany and Co before going to KL…
Euron is a douche bag but I don’t think hes that big of a douche to think he can take on Dany, Dothraki, 100 Greyjoys, and three big dragons? And other possible allies…
Tycho Nestoris,
You’re getting your information from the books, not the show. Maybe Euron sailed straight into Blackwater Bay from the east. Or maybe Dragonstone is further north in the show, and Euron sailed in from the west without going near the castle.
Young Dragon,
Maybe Euron sailed straight into Blackwater Bay from the east.
I don’t know what this means.
Or maybe Dragonstone is further north in the show, and Euron sailed in from the west without going near the castle.
That’s quite a significant change not to mention and negates Stannis’ leverage in season 2.
I meant west. Euron sails his fleet from the Iron Islands and enters Blackwater Bay from the west.
What leverage?
Young Dragon,
How does he enter blackwater from the west? There is an isthmus? on the map in the credits that prevents this I think. The mouth of the blackwater is northwest of the isthmus. Is there a canal south of KL i am missing?
For Stannis. According to the show wiki: “The Royal Fleet is stationed at Dragonstone island, from which it can effectively defend (or in time of rebellion, blockade) any approaches to the capital city.”
Dee Stark:
I don’t know Chad or why he doesn’t enjoy music, but just so you know: There are certain neurological disorders, such as amusia (commonly referred to as “tone deafness”), that prevent people from recognizing music as music; for example, they cannot recognize melodies or remember songs. You know how it’s easy for most of us to get a song stuck in our head? To a person with amusia, music is just random noise. The sound of a song might as well be the sound of passing traffic, random and discordant.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Ditto above. 🙂
You have a beautifully poetic way of writing. 😂
Mr Fixit,
Someone on another thread noted that Euron is far more cunning than he’s been given credit for thus far, and plays to the audience he’s addressing. When killing his brother he was in full Shakespeare-villain mode, and when addressing the Ironborn at the Kingsmoot he presented himself as the hardened, well-traveled pirate. Euron knows damn well that 1) Cersei and Jaime have always loved each other, 2) their children are all gone, and 3) Jaime is one hell of a good-looking man and Cersei isn’t going to fall for some filthy, foul-mouthed seafarer in a driftwood crown. He presented himself in a way he thought might appeal to her, which I thought was frikkin’ brilliant.
But as I wrote on another thread, I do think he and Scabior should start a band… 😉
https://68.media.tumblr.com/1bc0a62a4b2ae2be27babb7a4ef69543/tumblr_o2njx0uhOO1thu2vbo1_500.gif
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I saw your comment right after I responded to Mr Fixit! Agreed. 🙂
Lord of Coffee:
Well, I’m expecting another meltdown when Conor McGregor materializes (if he’s recognizable, and not a wight or something similar). Noah Syndergaard, not so much; he isn’t polarizing like McGregor, and most people outside of the U.S. probably won’t recognize him unless they’re baseball fans.
Pigeon,
Right??? Where the hell has this WorfWWorfington person been all year?
Wolfish,
hahah I agree though iw asnt here either but I wonder if they were around last year
Wolfish,
I never heard of that! Thank you!
I don’t recall Euron or any Greyjoy near Blackwater in the books, but I admit that I skimmed that chapter and may have missed it.
Wolfish,
You are right, thanks for the reminder.
Tycho Nestoris,
I looked at the opening credits again, and you’re right. There is only land to the west of King’s Landing. However, we also see the opening to Blackwater Bay, and I didn’t see Dragonstone anywhere nearer. It looks farther north to me. As for the wiki, I don’t consider it canon. The only thing that matters to me is what’s presented on the show.
ash,
We’re only speaking of the geography of the show and how close Dragonstone is to King’s Landing as opposed to the books. The ironborn haven’t entered Blackwater Bay in the books, at least not yet.
Young Dragon,
One clarification I’d like to make. It’s not the distance between Dragonstone and KL. It’s the opening of the Blackwater to the sea in relation to Dragontstone. Essentially, in order to come or go from KL port (and therefore Blackwater), how significant is Dragonstone’s location?
My opinion is that to enter the Blackwater and reach KL, Euron passed (relatively) close to Dragonstone. And in order to leave KL/Blackwater (if he indeed will to get this “gift”), then he must also pass Dragonstone (which is now a MORE dangerous venture with Daenerys there).
There’s a brilliantly laid out map here: https://quartermaester.info/
No, it’s not official, but it may as well be. Check it out.
Tycho Nestoris,
I was thinking about this earlier and I come back to this thread and see it being discussed. Funny.
It did throw me off to see Euron’s entire fleet in Blackwater Bay because they would indeed need to have sailed “near” Dragonstone to get to King’s Landing. I let it go as once again it could be something viewers aren’t suppose to concern themselves with (exact locations of these places).
While it is ‘tight fit’ to skirt by Dragonstone, “near” is still a lot of water. However, 1,000 ships getting by without notice is hard to accept. We could say that Euron went to King’s Landing and left again before Daenerys arrived (during Cersie and Jaime’s conversation just before Euron arrived they spoke as if Daenerys had not yet – guessing where she would land)… Or… He got to King’s Landing and is now in the bay waiting for some or all of Daenerys’ fleet to attack them. Blackwater Bay is a very large body of water to hide in.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
It is Meryn Trant – the face Arya used before she killed Walder Frey had to come from someone so she obviously killed someone to get it. Justifiable? Morally Justifiable? Does the fact that she killed someone to take their face make her a grey character? Just saying…
Clob,
We could say that Euron went to King’s Landing and left again before Daenerys arrived (during Cersie and Jaime’s conversation just before Euron arrived they spoke as if Daenerys had not yet – guessing where she would land)…
This one makes the most sense to me. I imagine it will be addressed (even indirectly) this week and ep 3 at the latest after looking at the ep descriptions. Sorry, not reading filming spoilers but I appreciate you hiding it : )
Mr Derp,
Thanks! It keeps crashing my browser but I can see it for about 5 seconds. That’s some real detail.
Young Dragon,
Yep! I’ve had the song stuck in my head for the last 3 days. I’m sure it was because it was beautifully sung (?… I’m not sure if this is the correct tense, sorry).
I really don’t get the backlash for eed Shearen’s part , judging by some comments I’ve seen I think some were dissapointed with his performance ? What were they expecting ? A 45 minute set of his greatest hits ??
Dark Archer,
From what I’ve seen, I think the biggest complaint is that seeing him took people out of the world of Westeros, which is something I don’t understand. Sure, he’s a celebrity with a recognizable face, but celebrities with recognizable faces appear on our screens everyday.
GhostCR,
Same with me. And your tenses were perfect.
According to this map the distance between Dragonstone and Sharp Point is about 100 miles. I think someone on reddit actually calculated that it is actually possible for two massive fleets sail past each other without realizing it in such a distance.
Young Dragon,
Of course I’m not saying that he pushed Bran out for no reason at all. I’m saying there is nothing “moral” about what Jaime did. Not sure why you keep using that word. He made a twisted decision and it certainly wasn’t the only option in that situation and not one that everyone would make. If it was Bran’s word against Jaime’s, Robert would be inclined to believe Jaime no matter what he thought was the truth. He made decisions that favored the Lannisters all throughout S1 because he was indebted to Tywin Lannister.
Miss Stark,
Arya is not an angel, but to me she’s not grey. Maybe there are some concerned, but most people think her Frey killings are awesome and love those scenes. To me a true grey character has to do something that makes the audience uncomfortable and really makes them question the character. Maybe there is some question over Arya, but it doesn’t go far enough for me to make her grey. Stannis, Theon, Jaime, all have done heinous things and it’s what makes them true grey characters.
leepfrog612,
That is a good point, but we don’t know who that girl was, and in the way the show has portrayed Arya, I would say she’s probably someone that wasn’t innocent.
What’s happened to my comments in this thread? They’ve all disappeared or been deleted 🙁
firstone,
-40 points for two “could ofs.”
That said GRRM and his editors somehow let a “could of” slip in one of the books.
Surely he could sail into Blackwater Bay without going past Dragonstone? Looks like Euron will clash with Dany’s fleet in the next couple of episodes so logistically it works for me.
Wolfish,
I only show up when the season starts. I actively avoid all the cast sightings/filming pictures/guest star appearances, etc…
My story: I binged Seasons 1-3, then read the books (Devoured 1-3, enjoyed 4, slogged through 5) and then watched week-by-week in Seasons 4, 5 and 6.
I am re-watching Seasons 2-3. I haven’t watched Season 2 since I first watched.
I defend the showrunners a lot. I am bored by book purists. And I firmly, firmly, firmly believe that Dorne sucked in the books too.
WorfWWorfington:
I watched each season as it aired, and read the books between Seasons 1 and 2. Like you (and most readers, I would wager), I found 4 and 5 to be difficult to get through, not because I didn’t love the material but because much of it didn’t serve the story and went on too many tangents.
On that note, Dorne in the books was, indeed, ridiculously complicated and meandering; I just wish the essence of the characters included in the show hadn’t been thoroughly butchered. But given how much I love about the adaptation, this amounts to a minor complaint.