Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers as well as viewers who have NOT been spoiled by leaks (book fans can discuss the show-only here). We ask that all Sullied book-readers refrain from posting spoilers in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. No spoilers, at all! This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand or afterwards, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!
OH my… the night is dark and full of barers.
Finally, the long dark night has come to an end and the wait is over. Season 6’s opener brought us a few answers, a few odd inquiries, a couple of shockers, and a non-animated version of what someone might look like that is experiencing the Rapunzel effect.
Sit back and take a breath. The next wait is a manageable six days, and we got some recappin’ to do…
![GOT601_072115_HS_DSC_7882[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/GOT601_072115_HS_DSC_78821.jpg)
Welcome all to the Unsullied recap. In this peculiar day and age, Unsullied not only refers to non-book readers, but also encompasses those who have chosen not to seek out spoilers and leaks during the off-season. Once again, your virgin eyes and ears shall remain unmolested in the posts of Oz.
I am seeing the episode the same time as most of you are… on Sunday nights, accompanied only by Ozzette and an adult beverage.
So let’s hit it.
The Wall
As it should, The Red Woman opens with Jon still lying in the snow as the howls of Ghost echo in the background. This alerts Davos who finds Jon and quickly gets him to a room with the help of Edd and a few other supporting Crows. Davos seems to see something in the blood in the snow, but he could have been simply recognizing how much blood Jon had lost and that he is likely gone.
Red Velvet enters the room like a woman who has lost the will to live. Her confusion as to the fate of Stannis seems to be enhanced by the death of Jon as she mentions that she witnessed him in the flames fighting at Winterfell,
Meanwhile, Thorne holds a meeting with the remainder of the Crows to explain his actions and to garner support for what he and the other officers have done. And it seems to be effective.
Edd and Davos discuss how to avenge their friend. Realizing they don’t have the numbers to fight the remaining crows, Edd sets out to rally the support of the Wildlings.
Winterfell
A few miles south, Ramsay frets over the death of Myranda and for a brief moment seems genuinely disturbed over her demise. Of course, his true colors are once again displayed as he recommends that she be used as Puppy Chow for the hungry hounds instead of a proper burial or pyre.
A meeting with Roose ensues where Ramsay is praised for his help in defeating Stannis. But in true Bolton form, Roose turns the praise into condemnation for the escape of Theon and Sansa and tells Ramsay that if he doesn’t have a wife, he won’t have an heir. But most importantly, the Boltons won’t have the backing of the North. Again, Roose brings up the fact that Fat Walda is expected to have a boy.
The question that comes to my mind from this exchange is could Ramsay feel threatened enough to murder Roose in order to protect his claim?
You’re damn right he could.
But for a moment, it didn’t look like it would be a factor as the Bolton men pursue Theon and Sansa into the river and through the woods and corner them. Then, Ozzette’s first burst off the couch of the season occurred as Brienne and Pod appear for the save. I was more impressed that Pod made a kill than anything.
After the melee is concluded, Brienne once again vows to protect Sansa, only this time, Sansa wisely accepts.
Where do they go now? Going to the Wall to see Jon seems to be the right answer to them. But as we know, that’s wrong.
King’s Landing
Jaime arrives back in KL with the body of Myrcella. Somewhat surprisingly, Cersei does not send Jaime to a Flea Bottom doghouse instead citing the prophecy passed to her by the witch at the beginning of Season 5. Considering everything else from the witch has come to fruition, the future of Tommen doesn’t look to promising.
Judging by the words she said to Jaime, Cersei’s plight seems to have transformed her demeanor and is yet another testament to the acting skills of Lena Headey to be able to sell it.
Jaime exclaims that they will take back everything that they have lost foreshadowing a clash between them and the faith militant.
Meanwhile, Margaery inquires about the well-being of her brother as she continues to reside in a cell at the High Sparrow Inn. Of course, she gets no info as only a confession will get her release and the information she seeks.
I have to say this for Marg: she seems to be handling the incarceration incredibly well and markedly better than Cersei. I think this implies that Marg is a very strong-minded, resilient woman even though she admits that she is not without sin to the High Sparrow.
![ep601_publicity_still_14_00123318[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ep601_publicity_still_14_001233181.jpg)
Dorne
We head back to everyone’s favorite show destination to see what’s happening with Doran, Ellaria, and the Sand Snakes and find all to be in a pretty good disposition until the maester drops a written bomb. At this point, Ellaria surely knows that it’s either her ass or Doran’s and takes action. As a result, our first notable character deaths are logged for Season 6.
The quick deaths of Doran and Areo were not necessarily shocking as much as they were unexpected this early on in Ep. 1. Trystane on the other hand…
![GOT601_072915_HS__DSC5866[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/GOT601_072915_HS__DSC58661.jpg)
So, I can only assume that Trystane was left on the boat most likely to give Jaime time to break the bad news to Cersei before making the awkward introductions. But then two of the snakes magically appear on the boat. Obviously, I understand the importance of killing the heir to Dorne. I guess they jumped on a boat that followed Jaime all the way to Kings Landing?
And what now? Is Dorne declaring war? Or was this simply payback and now Ellaria and the Snakes live out the rest of their lives in exotic bliss never to be seen again?
Meereen
Tyrion and Varys tour the city to assess the environment that remains since the Harpy attack at Daznak’s pit and now that the Queen is missing. In short, it’s not promising and the duo look to have their hands full while Dany is away. I believe this will eventually lead to Tyrion at least making an attempt to free the dragons as a last resort as conditions continue to deteriorate. Will the person we see behind the door that overheard their conversation come back to haunt them?
Oh, and someone torched the fleet all but guaranteeing that Dany and the Dragoneers won’t be headed to Westeros any time soon.
Meanwhile, Jorah and Daario rummage the countryside looking for their Queen and find that she has been taken by a Dothraki Horde.
Dany finds herself as a slave entering into a Dothraki camp to meet Khal Moro. Her situation seems dire until the Khal discovers that she was married to Khal Drogo. But when Dany asks to be escorted back to Meereen, she is informed that Khal widows are made to stay in Vaes Dothrak at some type of exotic widow’s convent.
If you’ve watched the trailers, you know that at some point a dragon shadow is seen flying over what is likely Vaes Dothrak. Hopefully, Dany’s presumed escape amounts to a little more than Drogon setting everyone on fire.
Braavos
In a brief scene, we find blind Arya begging on the street and still punished with blindness. She is approached by the Waif who challenges her to a duel. It is unknown how long this punishment will persist, but Arya is once again put in a situation that will potentially make her a better fighter as she learns to use her other senses in order to survive.
The Wall
We end up back where we started as Thorne commands Davos and the supporting Crows to surrender or promising bloodshed.
![ep601_publicity_still_11_00154954_a[1]](http://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/ep601_publicity_still_11_00154954_a1.jpg)
Finally, we find Melisandre in her chambers and unsurprisingly disrobing. But when the necklace comes off, we discover that Red Velvet is more of a Red Crepe. I can only assume this was inserted to demonstrate the power of the Lord of Light. At first, Ozzette and I both thought she was laying down to die. But the more I think about it, this is probably just the nightly ritual of Melisandre, even in her dispirited state. And after all that she has been through, this poor old lady deserves a nap.
Episode 601 Personal Awards
Favorite Action Sequence: Pod kills a Bolton soldier!
Favorite Quotes:
“Buried? Burned? She’s good meat. Feed her to the hounds.” –Ramsay
“From her first breath, she was so sweet. I don’t know where she came from. She was nothing like me.” –Cersei on Myrcella
“Your mother is a brilliant woman, you know that?” -Doran
“It’s a good thing you’re not a boy anymore. Because you have no cock.” -Tyrion
Favorite Sentimental Moment: Theon’s hug and comforting of Sansa.
Ow, That Shit Hurts Award: Damn, Trystane got the mother of all sinus cleanses with the sword through the nostrils. Maybe nasal irrigation isn’t so bad after all.
Jackass Award: Tough call, but I’ll go with the all-time leader in Jackass award nominees, Alliser Thorne, for being a damn good persuader to the Crows and running Davos off with the promise of mutton and the Red Crepe (if he wants her).
Overall Thoughts: Solid first episode with some good story arc continuation and decent action sequences.
Unfortunately, Dorne seems to have also picked up where it left off. I thought the acting from the Dorne players was actually improved. But that’s a big man who seemed to go down hard with such a small dagger. Doran lasted longer than Areo did, and that was with Ellaria acting like she was gutting a fish.
My only other major complaint was with a synopsis I saw that said, “The fate of Jon Snow is revealed.”
Was it? If his fate is that he is dead and he remains dead, then I suppose it is a true statement. Otherwise, no.
A man is also not sure why the episode ended the way it did, but hell, it’s the first episode. And it was better than ending with a Dorne death.
That’s a wrap for me today, Ladies and Sers! We’re giving away a WotW prize package and you still have time to enter. So go do it.
Until next week, hang out and stay awhile. Invite an Unsullied to join us. If you’ve never commented, there’s no time like the present. Tell me your thoughts, and may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz
Find Oz on Twitter.
**SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leak) are not allowed in Unsullied posts. This includes spoilers that may be covered by code or otherwise. Personally, I appreciate feedback from Sullied and Unsullied alike, so long as they do not include any type of hinting or conversation related to the written verse. However, spoiler coded comments do tend to lead to further Sullied conversation and for that reason, we ask that you please refrain from posting any SPOILERY content whatsoever in Unsullied posts. Thank you for the coop. -Oz
hodor
Great review Oz. Personally I think the Melisandre ending was the only real conclusion the episode had, so I whilst I agree that it wasn’t the best ending in the world I think it was the only suitable ending. It did help to show how vulnerable Mel is, and also paints her to be more sympathetic. All I ask of a premiere is to keep my excitement up for the season to come as I realise the constraints they have. This premiere did that, so it succeeded for me. Let’s hope that the rest of this season goes from strength to strength, because I see a lot of promise there (even in storyline I was slightly worried about, such as the Dothraki plot).
Good recap Oz!
I really liked the dorne stuff and hope the writers stick to it. I would be very disapointed if after all this hate they will just brush it aside. That would be worse in my opinion.
Agree on Hotah though, they gave him a nice looking axe, they should have showed him using it, not in this season perhaps, but rather last season.
Him fighting the Sand Snakes or hell even Bronn.
Thanks Oz!
I have yet to hear or see anyone unsullied or not that really followed the Tystane on the boat and then the Sand Snakes appear sequence. I know I didn’t. So that seems to be a bit of a story-telling boo-boo, my biggest complaint.
Can’t wait until after nap-time!
On more pleasent things.
During Arya’s scene you can hear someone say”heard about that kingsguard?”
Thought it was a nice little thing to add.
Also agree on Lena. She really makes you feel for Cersei.
“If you’ve watched the trailers, you know that at some point a dragon shadow is seen flying over what is likely Vaes Dothrak. Hopefully, Dany’s presumed escape amounts to a little more than Drogon setting everyone on fire”
I think that’s exactly what will happen actually and I can’t wait!
Is Cersei implying the only good she’s done is Myrcella or her kids in general because Tommen is pretty innocent too.
Jack Bauer 24,
I don’t think she’ll just get them after that one moment.
I expect a bit more conflict with the Dothraki. couple of episodes at least.
True. I don’t think that scene in the trailer will be when Drogon attacks. He’s just scoping out the situation and he’ll attack later.
Oz!!! So happy to have you back. Great recap, and of course, your funny comments always make my day.
I loved this episode, from start to finish.
I was so sad watching ghost in that room locked up while his companion was murdered, and then seeing him next to his body was heart breaking. If Ghost dies, I am done with this show. Just saying.
The scenes at the wall were all so good. Melisandre saw Jon in Winterfell??????????? IS THAT FORESHADOWING?? Does that confirm resurrection? Oh please………. I need it. And I need it asap. A part of me is still preparing myself for disappointment.
Mel’s final scene, I was like, WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. I did not see this coming. But when you go back to season 4, where she was chatting with Selyse about how she fools people into thinking something is what it seems… She didn’t have her necklace on, but she was using some potions and stuff. I was just soooo shocked with what I saw at the end of that episode. I don’t even know how that will play into everything, but I do know they were trying to show us her magic. And that exists. And theres a relation between what we saw with her and with Thoros. Oh and before I finish with my thoughts at the wall, DAVOS is badassssssssssss, and Thorne, well, his defense was interesting. And fuck olly.
Sansa’s scenes with Theon were awesome. Firstly, the music, YASSSSS! Second, the tender moment between them was so sweet. And third, I was standing up and cheering when Brienne arrived. At first I thought oh man, going back to Ramsay, really???????? But then the rest of the scene blew my mind. I AM SO EFFING EXCITED FOR SANSA’s story.
Speaking of Ramsay, I was laughing watching him be sad. And then of course, he ruined his soft moment, and I was like, okay there he is. Roose scolding Ramsay was awesome, but he is done like dinner.
Dany – AHHH SO EXCITED!!!!!!! She was badassssssssss. Loved her faces when she pretending she did not understand what they were talking about. So awesome. And then how she handled Khal Moro. Except now she is stuck going to the Widow’s retirement home.
So excited for them to see Drogon flying over his Mama.
I really enjoyed how Varys and Tyrion gave us a good look at the state of Mereen and the influence of the Lord of Light in the region. Loved that. The connections with religion are interesting to me. Andddddddd Dany has no more ships. Okay. LOL No westeros anytime soon.
Arya – my 3rd fave, I felt SO BAD FOR her. Cant wait till she kills that girl.
KL – I honestly felt soooooo sad seeing Cersei running with a smile on her face to see her daughter. Her scenes actually touched me, but then I remembered that I hate her. And I want her demise. And with what happened in Dorne, these idiots are going to be fighting each other, not a clue what is happening in the North.
Dorne – I liked this a lot. I wasn’t sure what was going to happen in Dorne. Either Doran was going to execute Ellaria – meaning the war with the Lannisters would be over – because Doran does not do war, he would have tried to avoid war with the Lannisters, and having executed Myrcellas killer it would have been easy for him to avoid a war…. or Ellaria was going to commit treason, meaning, the war with the Lannisters is on. And that’s what happened. And I liked it. To be honest, I was annoyed with Ellaria last season. I mean yes, I liked Oberyn, but he chose to fight the mountain. He went TO Kings Landing to fight the mountain. I don’t think Ellaria’s tactics of revenge are correct, but she is exacting revenge. Just like every other person on the show is. Robb did. Robb went to war for revenge. He did not want to rule. Arya exacted her revenge. Etc… And she made a good point. With the deaths of Ellia and Oberyn, he just did nothing, and then sent HIS SON to King’s Landing… knowing that someone there could harm him. So many of the book readers are bothered by this, and luckily this is a non-book reader recap, so I look forward to hear opinions of those who do not have books to cloud their judgement. I personally, look forward to seeing where this goes.
Great recap. My only disagreement would be Melissandre… I didn’t read that scene as her nightly ritual but her rejecting her religion.
Also – its not hard to kill someone when you stab them from behind without them expecting it. Why is it so hard to believe?
Does Aero have special powers I didn’t know about?
Welcome back, Oz. Being a Sullied myself (kinda sorta, now), I always enjoy reading your recaps. Personally, I thought all of the Dorne scenes fell flat, with some of the major players being killed off. Like D & D just wanted to get rid of all of those characters after last year’s disastrous introduction and make the whole storyline disappear. I also wondered how the hell the two Snakes ended up on the boat with Trystane. Maybe someone borrowed Little Finger’s magical flying carpet?
baines03,
Exactly. I saw it as her loosing faith in the Lord of Light.
baines03,
Yeah, this is her when her faith is weakest, I believe.
Besides Pod having learned well from Brianne, I loved him being Sansa’s teleprompter for the oath.
Also, Daenerys biding her time listening before announcing herself in Dothraki at the Khal’s tent. I am surprised that she still has her necklace though.
Great start to the season 8/10 for me
Fienix,
Does dorne only have one ship?
Yeah, I thought that was pretty neat too. It’s that attention to detail where D&D really shine. It makes sense of course, people would obviously be talking about such a brutal killing of a fairly i,important person.
The Dorne story is nonsense. Hey I know the best way to get revenge for our beloved Oberyn…let’s kill his entire family in cold blood including the brother he loved dearly and would have died for. Oberyn would chop their heads off in less than 10 seconds if he was there to see what they did. And the Dornish soldiers? Nah, it’s okay a paramour and her bastard kill the prince. Because…why not, right?
And where exactly was Trystane killed? We saw him get on the boat in 510 did we not? So he’s just hanging out on the boat? And how did the other Sand Snakes manage to get on board? They swim all the way from Dorne? Wasn’t the ship still docked at King’s Landing? Or did Jaime say hey man it’s alright your family killed my daughter, I’m going to let you go, and send him back to Dorne? In an otherwise amazing television program, this storyline is the total pits.
Fienix,
If they wanted to end the story, why not kill Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and put a and to this once end for all?
Because it’s clear that Doran had no plan, he just wanted peace, to spare his people suffering.
Im not arguing that it’s good, I’m just arguing that this idea of them just wanting to get rid of the story doesn’t really make sense to me.
Fienix,
I really don’t understand that complaint about the Dorne storyline at all. The ship had only just departed at the end of last season, so the Sand Snakes could have easily caught up if they left straight away.
Why does Ellaria call Tyene her daughter? Also, I completely missed the Tyrst boat continuity issues. The whole Dorne sequence feels shoddy and rushed. Hopefully the Ironborne are handled better…
Nice recap, as usual. Boy, have I missed next day recaps.
Will the person we see behind the door that overheard their conversation come back to haunt them?
My uneducated guesses to who the eavesdropper might be: Littlefinger or the new Red Priestess.
Or maybe Littlefinger dressed in drag as a Red Priestess? Beats the seven hells outta me.
CatspawAssassin,
I think its the Priestess we see in the trailer.
Great episode and great recap.
WTF on that final scene and very intriguing. And that conversation between Davos and Thorne had me in stitches. “And some mutton”.
I really loved the scene between Sansa and Brienne. Finally Sansa is getting in a position to make her own choices. The Starks are coming back!!!!
And I agree with you
Deesensfan, on the Dorne story line.
My only complaint though is that the episode was short and no Bran.
Hi guys! So I’ve read the books but I’ve stayed away from any GoT related stuff for a year…reading the warnings up above I surmise there has been some kind of leak? Does that mean that the comments on the sullied post are not safe for me?
Thanks
Knight of the Walkers,
Was Tryst on the ship with Jamie or a different ship?
I don’t necessarily dislike the Dorne storyline. I just don’t know where it’s going or how it ties in with the overall picture now that Myrcella and Trystane are both deceased. I suppose we will find out, but if Ellaria knows what is happening in the rest of the world she would be wise to just stay put at the beach.
Tycho Nestoris,
Because Tyene is her daughter with Oberyn. Silly 🙂
Knight of the Walkers,
Well, I think Dorne only has one ship, and Trystane was using it.
*sarcasm*
Oz of Thrones,
Its a Martell vs Lannister war.
Lannister always needs an enemy.
It’s an interesting choice to end the episode there, I have to note. Most of the episode was a knockout, but Dorne was disappointing, even though I loved the line “Weak men will never rule Dorne again.”
My full thoughts
Pau,
If you’ve read the books, you cannot CANNOT talk about anything that hasn’t happened onscreen. Pretend the books don’t exists in this thread, only what’s happen onscreen so far. No, not even w/ spoiler coding, because there’s always that one dude who doesn’t know how to use spoiler coding.
Pau,
I think the leak was on Episode 1 only.
Pau,
Leaks for episode 1, not others.
Tycho Nestoris,
It wasn’t until my second viewing that I even realized he was aboard a ship. I thought he’d somehow swam* back to his dad’s place.
*swum?
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I think he was asking if the Sullied post is safe for him??
Pau,
Ah a familiar face (well name)! A few screenshots were leaked for the first episode only. The rest of the series has not been leaked at all (at least not so far).
Tycho Nestoris,
Same boat as Jaime.
The Wolves of Winter,
GOT epis are always so short.
We will get plenty of Bran I am sure. He needs a lot of screen time to catch us up.
Knight of the Walkers,
I don’t get the complaints about this as well. Have people lost the ability to think for themselves?
The Wolves of Winter,
No, they need an itinerary or a time travel machine to understand
hahaha
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Oh that must be a show thing I missed? In the books, Tyene’s mother is a septa.
orange,
I was very surprised but in a good way by the Dorne happenings.
This isn’t about doing what “Oberyn would have wanted”. Ellaria and Oberyn’s brood want to rule, and return Dorne to her former glory, instead of allowing these Martell weaklings continue doing nothing. Ellaria says it herself – “Your son is weak – Weak men will not rule Dorne”.
And they did it with the blessing of their people who are equally disgusted by Doran continuing to capitulate with Elia’s murderers. Of course they are all backstabbing murdering assholes – but their actions make perfect sense if you realize everything from last season was leading up to this power grab.
Tycho Nestoris
Wrong thread, bookwalker.
Tycho Nestoris,
No book talk, please. This post is for Unsullied viewers, only.
D & D say they can wrap up the show in 25 episodes, then spend the first on less than a single day!
I can’t help but be worried that the story is going to be severely compromised trying to crowbar it into such a short time period.
Let’s hope so. Those folks could use some magic help.
I wonder if the guy shown giving the pep talk to the crowd right afterwards has anything to do with her? (For some reason, I’ve become fixated on that guy. He seemed to be too articulate to be just a one show character.)
Deesensfan,
Yeah, I know. But I was hoping that since he has been absent for so long he would make an appearance in the first episode. But I understand. The first time we will see there will probably be some visions that they didnt want to be shown in the premiere and with that the red carpet premiere two weeks ago.
Great recap, thanks.
Was it me, or did Arya look like she had a bit of a smile at the end of her beating when the waif said that she would see her tomorrow? She seemed relieved that her training was going to resume even though she was blind. Anyone else?
Agree…I’m 100% sure they reduced it drastically after the recepcion Dorne had and the problems they had in Seville.
Why recast Myrcella, age up Trystane cast a big name for Doran, set up a Romeo and Juliete-like story that never really developed, why is Hotah even cast? A total mess in my opinion. Plus those sandsnakes are the worst actresses ever! Specially the one with the spear
Plus they seemed to enjoy killing Trystane!! Wtf is this? Oberyn would be appalled!! Killing someone should never be a joke…they’re worse than Ramsay now!
Other than this disaster I liked the episode, seems like they reduced they total recap episodes from 2 to 1
Knight of the Walkers,
Were Nymeria/Obara on the dock though when the ship left? I really should have watched the finale before the premiere.
Sue the Fury,
Apologies, that hardly even feels like a spoiler.
CatspawAssassin,
Maybe. But we had a red priestess last season, who even gave Tyrion the eye. And it turned to be a one show.
I think they were just demonstrating the Lord of Light religion can continue on without Dany… whom they had originally believed to be their chosen one.
The Wolves of Winter,
I know, I can hardly wait.
Tycho Nestoris,
They were there when Ellarias poison started to kick in, at the dock.
ButcherBoy,
I didn’t notice… but wouldn’t surprise me.
I will look out for that on the next rewatch.
Pau,
Okay let’s not argue if Dorne is good or not. Not one word on quality.
If they wanted to end the story there, wouldn’t it have been better if they killed of Ellaria and the Sand Snakes? That would have preaty much stoped the war.
Doran clearly didn’t want war.
Why kill the guy who prefers the status quo and his heir, who seems to dislike war just as much? Why send 2 of the Sand Snakes in KL if you just want to end the story?
To me this idea that they want to end the story really doesn’t make sense, because to me they opened it up even more.
It’s amazing how many people I have seen already write this season off just based on the premiere. Not sure if they were expecting fireworks from the start but that’s not how GOT premiere’s work, they continue where the last season ended and sets up the new stories. Mission accomplished. Hopefully everyone in Dorne decides to serve the many faced god because while shocking it was yet again the weakest point of the episode.
Aha, thanks all for answering! Even then I’m a bit wary of venturing in those comments because as I say I haven’t even seen the trailer and seems like there has been a lot of news and speculations in the site for the past year… just checking the title of some posts was scary!
I think I’ll try and stop after the first spoiler. Again, thanks all!
Good to be awake XD
I slept for to long, really enjoyed the episode last night.
can’t wait to see what they plan for dorne next.
Tycho Nestoris,
Yeah, but it wouldn’t have been hard to catch up at all. It’s not like they were days behind or anything, probably just an hour or so. I can understand some of the criticisms of the Dorne storyline, but I can’t understand this one at all.
The entire Martell family got wiped out, just like the Baratheons. Less players for the game of thrones.
*Fewer
Knight of the Walkers,
I think it was how it was shot. I thought Ellaria and Doran were walking back from the dock when the scene begins but it must’ve have been some time (days/weeks) later. That would explain the message arriving as well.
Damon Snow,
I hope they wrap it up in 10 episodes actually,this is a horrible fandom that doesn’t deserve this show . Let them wait 5000 years for the “superior” books that will never come out .
Luke Michael,
sometimes, I feel that way too.
Tycho Nestoris,
Yes, it is. But in the show during the first SS scene, when Ellaria is riding that badass horse down the beach to the cabana party, she greets her as “mother” (or mama, can’t remember which).
Not rejecting, she lost faith, I don’t think she needs to wear the necklace all the time for the glamor to work as long as her faith is strong and the ruby is near her.
In this case it isn’t strong enough unless she wears the ruby to make it so.
Oh, I saw it too. Waif is going to get whats coming to her, thats for darn sure!
Lyanna_Targaryen,
Cabana party hahahaha
All of you horrified at the vitriol spewing online today, just take heart. Most of those people are die hard book worshippers who have been attached to this story for decades (okay, 2). They are much more critical and also very loud and vocal about their criticisms, legitimate and otherwise. Try to not let them yuck up your yum.
Yes, not end it but shorten it or/and move it into a diferent direction than the one they first had when they set up those storylines, cast those big names and chose to shoot in Seville’s Palace.
That’s the impession I got, but I’m posting 5mins after watching the episode and Orange opinion really resonated with me. I think Dorne continues to be the weakest part and they would do well keeping it to a minimum. Which with half the cast gone shouldn’t be to hard
But let’s not dwell on the bad part and talk about the good ones! Melisandre has always been on my top 3 favourite list and she is truly fascinating! As well as Davos…fantastic storyline up in the wall.
Also have to agree with Oz, Lena is an incredible actress! Can’t wait for the KL storyline to develop
An I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the Dothrakhi storyline, great new actors there! And speaking in a made up language, which is impressive.
The rest of the episode was on par with the series, pretty solid…only issue is having to wait another week! Ouch
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I know I know..
Sometimes its very party pooping! haha
Grailking,
That is a great thought!
She takes of her ruby to see if her faith is still strong! It is not…
Queenofthrones,
Totally agree! Last season, everyone seems to agree that Dorne storyline is not that good. But this time, the episode divides the fan opinion about Dorne.
Although, I think the coup would make more sense if it was placed last season instead of this season and/or they gives us more foreshadowing last season.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I need a show coach, completely missed that.
Pau,
I’m not arguing about the quality. Hell i’m not really arguing at all.
I just don’t see this as them ”ending that story” I see it as them expending it, opening more doors as to where the story goes.
But I guess we are both a bit biased here. I liked it, therefore I want more. You didn’t therefore you hope for less.
We will have to wait to see where it’s going, no point in arguing until then.
But I fully agree with your other points, it was a strong opening.
Deesensfan,
I’m pretty sure when they left the pier last year they had a fast ship hidden for them to take.
It’s obvious Jamie escorted Myrcella alone leaving Trystane on the boat painting her death eyes.
As much as Doran wants to keep his people out of a revengeful war, we never see him putting that point across to his people; so Elliria may be stating some truths, hence the guards not stopping her.
I’m sure the SS will muck things up.
Is it just me, or do David and Dan have some sort of violent fetish with people being stabbed through the back of the head? It was your comment about Pod that reminded me he did kill a guy in the Blackwater battle by shoving a spear through the back of his head. And Karl ‘the Legend of Gin Alley’ Tanner died the same way. Now Trystane. :/
Great write up, Oz! To your question about where that leaves Dorne, I believe both scenes were included to fast track Dorne to war. What I am curious about is whether or not the two SS’s will remain in KL, or regroup south.
So, has Sansa got anywhere that she can go ( purely from what we have seen in the show) other then The Wall? Clearly that prospect is not enticing knowing what we know but Sansa has no idea. Please don’t let Littlefinger suddenly appear out of the blue – I’m prepared to let a lot of things go for subjective enjoyment but a “Jetpack” arrival would be too much!
Where’s Bronn?
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
No way LF finds her before she reaches the Wall.
I’m more confident then ever that she will witness Jon’s resurection.
That’s what I was thinking when I started reading all these reviews about it being an unrealistic scene or whatever… it’s not all that unrealistic, it’s just totally wack, at least for anyone who was expecting a little more out of Hotah. (On the other hand, maybe a LITTLE BIT unrealistic as you’d expect him to be on high alert around the SS after last season’s shenanigans. But totally realistic if you accept that he was just kind of a shitty-in-general bodyguard, I guess?)
Anyway, I didn’t “like” it because I thought Hotah and Doran were the most interesting characters coming out of this arc, but on a logical level I can appreciate the decision to kill off half the Dornish storyline in the first episode… the show is getting too big for anyone other than superfans to be realistically expected to follow so many characters. I’m more OK with dead Dornepeople than I would be with, for example, another Bran-less season to make room for lots of Dornestuff.
Overall, I certainly enjoyed watching it, although it kind of felt like a reel of “COMING THIS SEASON ON GAME OF THRONES” clips moreso than a coherent episode. I think if somebody sat down for their very first GoT experience last night, they probably went away not entirely convinced that this is the best show on TV… but it’s season 6 and I doubt the powers-that-be are that concerned with making accessible TV to draw in new fans.
I have to say I’m really confused that everyone is so pleased with that episode.
Overall the whole thing was pretty boring.
3 scenes around Dany’s stuff where essentially all it did was set up where we’re going this season.
Aray’s still training. yay.
Cercie’s sad her daughter died. sad.
Ramsey’s in trouble and is going to hunt Sansa…. no surprise there.
No one in the Knight’s watch has a problem with Allister and company committing mutiny. Really? (Don’t care what they thought about Jon’s policies, they’re going to let this guy kill whoever he wants and they’re okay with that?)
Sansa’s scene was great. Loved it.
Mellisandra’s scene was great. Loved it.
The Trystane killing… So amazingly dumb. In what world would he be ALONE on a ship with 2 sandsnakes after they’ve just killed his beloved? *He may not have KNOWN they did it, but he should have at least had a guard or 10 with him before he met with people who had actively tried to kill her. That scene was in every way just an opportunity for writers to kill him off*
And everything else was just meh. Nothing developed. It was all set up for what’s to come. I pray that’s all they need for setup, or this season could be an exercise in patience.
Deesensfan,
He’s kind of always on his guard, a step ahead. That said, Tyene is sneaky enough to make it believable.
Is Cersei implying the only good she’s done is Myrcella or her kids in general because Tommen is pretty innocent too.
spworldtour,
It’s clear the guards are on Ellaria’s side.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Well Rickon was sent to some northern house wasn’t he? Maybe Sansa will think to go to the same place. Not becuase Rickon is there which of course she doesn’t know, but if Bran thought it would be a good place for Rickon then it might be they are close Stark allies which Sansa would know as well as Bran).
Also I just rewatched the Stannis-Jon scene where he gets the “lolno” letter from the 8 year old Mormont girl ruling Bear Island. They appear to be very big Stark supporters! And an island might be a good place to hide out & build support…
Grailking,
I totally agree. They’re getting a lot of hate right now but so did Theon and he totally made a comeback. Maybe the Dornish will support Dany, they’re all about powerful woman. Their culture originated from the Rhoynar which is relatively close to Valeryia. If Dorne was the only kingdom to withstand Aegons Conquer imagine them as Dany’s ally? Besides… I don’t care how many Lannisters die -_-
Wow I just read the sullied review and Sue makes the same exact points about Dorne as I did, regarding D&D changing their mind about Dorne’s plotlines.
Is not that I don’t want more of Dorne, quite the opposite, I would’ve like to see more of Trystane and Myrcella, and Doran and Hotah in action…I wanted more of the “good Dorne”, the Oberyn Dorne! . Not this Kill Bill murderous Sandsnakes thinguie lol
But as Sue said at this point Dorne is probably irredimable, and D&D, smart as they are, probably saw it too
The reasons could be many and is hard to speculate, but seems weird to me that Siddig would’ve accepted a priori the role he ended up having, so probably they changed it, and maybe at his request. I’m sure he wasn’t happy either at the backlash Dorne got and maybe he wanted out the sooner the better
spworldtour,
Were you expecting a battle and Jon’s resurrection in episode 1?
If LF doesn’t find Sansa then we won’t see him until pretty late in the season then.
Pau,
Okay here I have to just disagree completely.
I’m not entering a debate about this. Especially when you ignored all my points and said how they just ended the story because it was ”bad”.
Aye but Sansa has no idea either where Rickon is and thinks he’s dead. She may well remember that a bannerman has been loyal in the past but as far as what we have seen through Sansa’s eyes only, options seem limited. I can’t think that Brienne has any good notions either so I am assuming it’ll have to be Castle Black – unless something crops up in episode 2.
Wait, Ramsay loves hunting. Why wasn’t he chasing Sansa and Theon? Also, Pod remembering his words was a nice touch but Sansa is like the most proper Lady ever…was she baiting Pod or did she actually forget the proper reply?
baines03,
this is what i was immediately confused with as soon as the scene played out, nightly ritual or something much deeper with losing faith in Lord of Light based on everything that played out at Winterfell and her assumption that her fire visions may be inaccurate (Jon Snow at winterfell). looking forward to seeing the continuation, similar to the Onion Knights thoughts, we need the Red Woman to finally work some magic that is beneficial to the cause
About Siddig?
No, I said they changed the direction they first had in mind for reasons unknown. That’s my final statement
I think they firts idea, which was probably longer, was probably better, but for reasons unknown (production issues, time constrains, public backslash, whatever) they changed it, which resulted in a bad Dorne storyline which will probably be better for the show as a whole.
PS: I don’t see what points I ignored
Tycho Nestoris,
Why would she know those words. It’s not like she had people offering their services to her.
Even if she knew, I don’t think it’s that over the top to think that after jumping from the walls of WF, run from dogs and crossed a icy river, she may forget some words from the oath.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Yeah I know Sansa doesn’t know Rickon is there. I’m just assuming that wherever Rickon was sent to is the most loyal house – otherwise why send him there in particular? If anything Sansa being older ought to know more about who in the north can be trusted than Bran. Or was it Maester Lewyn or Osha that suggested where he should go? I don’t remember. Anyway it would be cool to have a Stark reunion even if it’s not the one we expect…
Also the letter from the Mormont Kid was adorable and I would love to meet her – also because I love Jorah and it would be fun to see where he’s from.
You are probably right that she’ll go to CB – it was set up by Theon telling her to run there while he distracted the Boltons. Still I think the others are viable possibilities. I’m ready to be surprised!!
Queenofthrones,
Sure, her going to Bear Island would be really cool, but I think it would be too much logistically for the show to carry in terms of new sets etc.
Meeting little Lyanna Mormont would be fun!
Mihnea,
Yea, it makes sense she forget them or was just nervous. She was drilled all that by her mother and Old Nan (while Arya shot arrows). I liked the scene a lot. Just part of me wishes she had delivered the words as opposed to the team effort (which again, I liked). Brienne is really the main reason to watch the show for me. So I am happy that the four of them FINALLY found each other.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Any chance at some Riverlands action for them? CB is cold and Theon has no coat.
Jack Bauer 24,
I asked that myself, could he be the body on the back end of the boat to KL?
That is one I like to see, unless the bad Pussy kissed him with a sleeping drug.
Love the Episode 2 countdown clock! Wasn’t expecting it.
I hope it’s better than this episode, this episode was a good way to start the season though but I hope it gets better next episode, I am eager to see Bran!
The scenes with Ghost and Jon’s body had me thinking they wont implement him warging. It’s still possible they might, but what threw me off were 1) Ghost was in the room when Mel examined Jon’s body and said nothing odd or magical was happening between the two. 2) Ghost lovingly nuzzles Jon’s hand on the table. Why would Jon do that to his own body if his mind was inside Ghost?
Pau,
I don’t think they changed their minds at all.
They did say that at first they didn’t want to introduce Dorne at all. But they decided at the last time they needed. So I think they added most of the characters they thought they might need.
And wanted to get to their endgame for that season: ”Myrcellas death”.
Then this season they where free to write it however they wanted to. Free of any obstacles or rules and decided that Doran/Hotah/Trystane aren’t needed anymore.
I agree with this, but won’t go into it as it’s book stuff.
Big actors do play small roles. McShane will be in 1 episode, whoever the hell he plays, the pirate from S5 was in 2 episodes but a really small part.
Hell you don’t need to have big story to enjoy acting in it, Dillane didn’t really like playing in the show, but he did it anyway.
The biggest point you ignored is that I clearly said. Let’s not discuss the quality of the scenes at all but rather the structure.
If they wanted to end the story. Why not kill Ellaria and the SS? There, Trystane comes home, Doran sends their heads to KL to please Cersei. The end, we never see Dorne again.
Why put Dorne on the path to war, why send 2 SS to KL, on of the biggest story in the show, if you just want to end this story.
You responded, by saying ‘Dorne is bad, Siddig didn’t want to do it anymore and they ended it”
When to me all their decision indicates that they are putting Dorne in the story, not ending it.
Now if you say that they ended the Dorne story from the books, here I agree. If you like it or not is a different thing alltogheter. I did, you did not.
Let’s not get into it to much as this is a unsullied thread.
By the way any of you saw the after show thinguie they did on HBO? How was it?
Maybe not the best example, but do we all remember to say please and thank you?
My parents had to remind me a few times, so a young princess who’s been held as a prisoner, forcefully or tricked into 2 marriages can remember some of the words but not the whole oath is not unrealistic; especially coming out of a frozen stream and dogs in your face.
OkayestWife,
Jon has never warged. Why would he now?
Hmm, they’d have to get through hundreds of miles of Bolton controlled lands with everyone looking for Sansa and Theon. Brienne managed it with Pod but there was no APB out for her.
It’s a question of where the story goes: rally the north; or head back to the (relative) safety of The Riverlands, to do – well what? Rally the North seems like a more focused objective given that the whole should be moving towards the end game, but how to do that from Castle Black is not obvious.
I believe that in the Sand Snakes’ first appearance last season, there’s a mention that Ellaria is Tyene’s mother. Either way, in the show, Ellaria is the mother of six of Oberyn’s eight children (Tyene and the other five younger Sand Snakes that we haven’t seen on the show yet).
YUPPERS
CatspawAssassin,
I didn’t realize that either. It wasn’t till I saw comments about him being on the boat with the snakes that I got it. Need to see that picture again, we can’t be the only ones who wondered about that
Deesensfan,
Book theories……….
Borat Lannister,
🙂
Edit: there is a lot of book discussion in this thread people *does Pooh Bear stare* stop it now, it’s the only safe place the truly unsullied have 🙁
Is it just me or does the Waif look like Woody Harrelson in that photo? 😉
Greatest disappointment for me by far was no sign yet of the most awesome headgear EVER. If you don’t know what I mean I won’t spoil you but believe me, you’ll know it when it turns up 😀
Tycho Nestoris,
Even if she definitely knew the words I would imagine she’s in a state of shock and maybe suffering hypothermia, certainly not in a fit mental state to do things she would normally be able to.
I understand that if any more words come pouring out your cunt mouth, I’m gonna have to eat all the fucking mutton in this room.
Dragonmcmx,
The mutton line made me laugh like crazy!!
I gave some thought to that, as well. At the time, Ellaria had made her fake peace with Doran, so everyone was relaxed. It’s happened several times throughout the series, most notably with the Red Wedding.
Pau,
I agree. The Sandsnakes come off like cartoon characters which is really jarring when the rest of the acting is so well done. I’d almost rather Dorne was just vaguely referred to by other characters and never visited again – but perhaps it’s needed for some pivotal point in the story.
Apart from that pair of scenes, I loved this. The best opening episode since Ep 1 S1.
Red priest in Meereen
“Will you take your fate in to your own hands & take the Mother of Dragons fire up to help yourselves?”
3 minutes later
*Meereenese fleet is on fire*
same Red priest
“OMG I did NOT mean ACTUAL FIRE WTF PEOPLE”
Great unsullied recap Oz! This is my first go around with post-episode recaps/ comments and this thread appears to be less negative than most. I’ve always viewed the book series and the television series as two separate narratives in the same universe. So in my mind, despite being “sullied” years ago when I finished ADWD, I’m still “unsullied” with the television series (and indeed we are all unsullied in that respect). SO recaps that do not emphasize the book connections are my favorite and I thank you for sharing your thoughts. A few things (mainly questions) I wanted to add:
At the Wall, didn’t Ghost’s howls kinda haunt your eardrums? You point out that there may or may not be something to Jon’s blood in the snow. Was that a dragon I see or just bloody dead Jon? These things feel important but I can’t help but wonder, are we grasping at straws? Maybe we so badly want Jon’s death to mean something that we are looking for meaning in the mundane (and the show is trolling us with possible clues). Or if these things do mean something and Jon is actually coming back (which I believe he is IMO), then lets not drag this out and let it become a Walking Dead situation. Fingers crossed we find out soon.
Also, WTF half of the Night’s Watch men, are your loyalties so easily shifted? I know Jon is dead but what about his plan to use the Wildings in the coming war with the undead? Is Thorne that convincing that the JS supporters just give up? The white walkers are not dead and you guys know they are marching south. Did we forget what Stannis told us in S5 – Winter is coming are not just the words of House Stark. Winter is literally coming and you know who comes with it.
Ramsey is still an asshat and I continue to dislike him in season 6. That scene with Roose and Ramsey was intense and it was hard to tell who is playing who. Roose knows what his bastard is capable of – but at the same time he seems to think he is somehow murder proof. I dunno. This could be an interesting season with these guys. Daddy issues seems to be the theme
Great scene with Sansa, Brienne and the gang. Glad to see Pod get in on the action. He is the true hero in my eyes 😉 Throw back to this article from last week (still a good read) http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/podrick-the-magic-dicked-teen-is-the-true-hero-of-game-1771652042
I agree that Tommen better watch his back. I have a feeling his golden crown will soon be a golden shroud.
Dorne has been discussed a lot and I know people have strong opinions. I’m not a particular fan of the plot in the series but I don’t hate the scenes. Visually, the scenes are bright and well shot. The writing seems to be getting better and the acting is okay. I was shocked they killed Doran and company instead of Ellaria and the SSs. Left me wondering if that spelled the beginning or the end of Dorne? Are the Dornish going to become bigger players in the Game or will the end of the Martell bloodline see the end of the plot line (much like the Baratheons of yesteryears). Only time will tell.
Finally, back at the Wall with Red Velvet (love that name!). It was such a great scene when she takes off the ruby necklace and I love how she just crawls back into bed after revealing her true self. Such a vulnerable moment for the character. Interested in seeing where the story goes from here.
Oh forgot about Dany and Tyrion. Liked these scenes mainly for the humor. My goal for the year is to learn some Dorthraki curse words! And only on GOT can a eating a baby joke be funny. Good to see the writing team doing lighter stuff this season.
Looking forward to next week!
My best guess is that Ellaria has the backing of the Dornish army and the people because they loved Oberon (more than Doran).
I got the impression it was set up in a larger way than just the Sand Snakes.
At least I hope it is more than just an assassin plot now that Obara and Nymeria are in KL.
Anyone watch After The Thrones?
Lulus Mum,
Agreed. I liked how the scene played out. Part of me just wanted Sansa to do it for her self.
DireWolfHeart,
LOLLL
Hawk,
Definitely. well said.
So, I’m rewatching the episode and finished Sansa’s scene. Had a grim realization- every person not burned after death is potential wight fodder. Looks like the Night’s King just gained extra soldiers and horses.
Oz, one suggestion. I myself have actually read the books but as the series is starting to catch the books this is my first season that I don’t know what is going to happen. Because I wanted to feel the unsullied feeling this season, I also didnt watch the trailers. So when you wrote “If you’ve watched the trailers, you know that…” I was bit bummed out.
So maybe not even trailer spoilers next time? Otherwise good work.
PS. You cant kill haggard war veteran to insta-straight-legs-face-plant-dead with one dagger hit to the back. Areo dying was unfortunately bit comical. It was like some old Charlie Chaplin movie. Just add old door hinges sound when he falls.
Tormund!! Where are you?? TORMUND!!!
Oz!! Still loving these…keep it up!
Aha, so just because you don’t want to discuss the quality of the scenes I can’t? It’s all intertwined, man! Plus, I’m not only talking to you, I’m also expressing my general opinion regarding the episode 😉
Big actors play small, good roles. Not small, shitty ones 😉 Another example of this is Ciarán Hinds. I think they didn’t play him to his full potential, for whatever reason.
Is not a big deal, this production is very complicated and issues arise. I’m sure there’s plenty of actors whose character’s arc got cut, and some other’s who got extended, like Bronn, or Theon or Davos because they really clicked with the show and fans responded to it, of because D&D felt like it. Whatever
You seem to view it as bad. They change their minds, therefore they made a mistake in the first place. Is not like that, at all. Heck, Id be fucking worried if they didn’t change their mind about some stuff, many stuff tbh. It’s how things improve.
Regarding they opening possibilities, I didn’t want to get into it because I was on the phone, but I had to go to the computer :P. Ok, so how are we gonna see more of Hotah now? All those possible scenes, gone. How are we gonna see Trystane and his revenge plot in King’s Landing, possibly making an alliance with the twins, to go again his own family, for love? All that, gone. How are we gonna see the possible Civil War/Power Struggle between Doran and Ellaria? All that, gone. How is that opening the Dorne storylines? I see as streamlining those storyline into just one: Ellaria and the SS. Period. Which in itself is not neither bad, nor good. It is what it is
Why did they do that? I have no clue. I think it made for a bad episode 1 Dorne plot, but it will probably be better for the show on the long run, because if D&D streamlined the Dorne storyline, and I think it’s pretty obvious they did, they had their reasons for doing so.
PS: I personally think it’s because food is better up here in Girona and they wanted to go eat to El Celler de Can Roca (named the best restaurant in the world again this year) more often ;P
I thought it was a good place to end the episode. I love when they end of WTF? moments. IIRC, the birth of shadowbaby was an episode ender in season 2.
I liked the Bolton scene. It was just so classic Ramsay to have Myranda fed to the dogs. It sets up the tension between Roose and Ramsay beautifully. Presumably, he’s not capturing Sansa anytime soon, so Ramsay will be on the warpath. How long before father and son turn on each other?
I can’t wait to find out where Brienne goes next. From the episode 2 trailer, it looks like she could be sent to go find Arya.
No hints of Littlefinger’s whereabouts yet. I don’t think anyone else has even mentioned him yet.
It occurs to me that Tommen is the last “Baratheon.” If the prophecy is correct and he dies without producing an heir, what the hell is going to happen in KL? It certainly would leave a vacuum for Dany to fill. Neither the Lannisters or Tyrells have any kind of blood claim. It will be war again for sure. With no heir to the throne, whoever takes it will have to take it by force. I’m not sure Cersei would’ve brought up the prophecy if there weren’t a good chance Tommen wont live to see season 7.
I’m not sure what everyone is complaining about. Set aside the pretty abrupt Dornish deaths and it’s a very intriguing start to the season. I get the feeling that episodes 8,9, and 10 will be bigger than anything we’ve seen so far. Sundays can’t come fast enough. I’m so looking forward to the return of Bran and am thrilled to find out what happens next, because I’m now pretty much unsullied too!
rorschach,
Tyene is known for her deadly poisons. Still, Hotah was down faster than Frazier.
Tycho Nestoris,
Coming to wreak Allister’s ass next episode!!
I don’t know Anyone has said this before …
But yoin rewatching I really liked the shot of ellaria looking down at doran after he died .
And liked that trystene was painting the stone eyes for myrcella on her funeral …showed how much he loves myrcella and that teen love is cute and rarity to see in GOT
Mihnea,
haha fingers crossed!!
dragonbringer,
I said that in the other thread!
I like how the guards stood in the background just watching Doran die,
It really shows how much they disliked Doran and how feeble they thought he is.
Mihnea,
Oops I must have missed it. .
Anyways this episode was full of beautiful shots in the north amd wall .,KL with cersei and jamie at the shore and dothraki sea all were excellent ..
dragonbringer,
Yeah. I don’t think anyone can complain about that. The music was also beautiful!
Tycho Nestoris,
I was getting a bit teary at that point, just wanted to climb into the tv and hug all four of them. No idea if it was the intention but I thought it was a nice kind of team bonding thing. Sansa thought she was alone in the world, discovered in the last few days (in the show timeline) that Bran and Rickon aren’t dead, Theon is now as good as back (YASSS!) and helping her and here come more people who would risk their lives to join Team Sansa even though she rejected them before. Also thinking if that was me I’d don’t think I could even form a sentence at that point, no matter how much help I got. Aaaahhhh warm fuzzy feeling, hoping a get a lot more of those from the Northern storyline this series! 😀
Mihnea,
It goes without saying ramin always delivers ..
That scene with sansa and theon and dothraki are best for me…
I can’t wait to see what he has in store for dany this year ….his best always come for dany’s
Lulus Mum,
I promised myself I wouldn’t cry…group hug everyone group hug
The synopsis actually didn’t say anything about Jon Snows fate, it said “Jon Snow is dead”, which is a pretty good synopsis I think 😉
Good to see Theon get some redemption, it’ll be a while, if ever, before he is 100% Wonder where they will go for shelter, to the Wall, since no one knows about the events up there?
Tycho Nestoris,
I thought I was just being a bit hormonal but quite a few people have said the same, even those who don’t normally get emotional at that kind of thing. *Hugs for all the nice characters, meanies NOT included. Blows raspberries at the Boltons* *And hugs for anyone on here who needs one* 😀 *Tries to remember warm fuzzy feeling for when something heartbreaking inevitably happens* 🙁
Cock Merchant,
there was another synopsis that did mention Jon’s fate. There were like five different synopsis on various outlets going around last week.
Anyone catch “After The Thrones”? The banter between Andy G and Chris R is still funny, though some of its obviously scripted. Overall, enjoyable way to detox from the episode, but I suspect they’ve been instructed not to get too critical of things they didn’t like. It’s mostly a recap show with humor and explanation of things, more so than an opinion show.
Ravyn,
What is “After the throne”?
is that the HBO talk show recap thing? I thought it was airing on Mondays.
Reminder for the Book Readers, this is really not the post for you! People don’t want book wankery and book mentions AT ALL in this thread.
Lulus Mum,
Oysters, clams and hugs! Oysters, Clams and hugs!
Deesensfan,
It is. It’s posted Monday morning on both coasts.
Maybe it’s because I’m an English teacher who has taught Shakespeare’s “The Tragedy of Julius Caesar” more times than I care to count, but Thorne’s speech was giving me major “Brutus’s speech right after Caesar’s assassination” vibes. It basically hit all of the same notes (Snow/Caesar was a great leader, but his ambition would’ve led to our doom and that’s why I had to kill him), and had the same desired outcome (unruly crowd starts out opposed, and ends up in complete support.) Unlike honorable Brutus, however, Thorne is not dumb enough to simply hand over the platform to his opposite (like Brutus did with Anthony).
Josh L.,
I loved how they did Jon’s assassination.
This entire Ceasar/Brutus angle was amazing to watch, the day it ends will be a sad day.
But also filled with joy at Jon’s return!
Ravyn,
Ohh.. but it will air on TV tonight.
Is it worth the watch?
Another quote to add to the list
“Septa Unella can be a little over-zealous sometimes”
Nomination for Master of Understatement Award!
Nice recap Oz (I have read the books but like to read this and see the non book readers’ interpretations on things). Plus the other thread was kinda getting like a broken record about people complaining about Dorne.
I really hope Littlefinger doesn’t magically appear in the North back into Sansa’s storyline (I always felt it was pretty stupid of him to leave for KL in Season 6 leaving the Vale – his lording over there isn’t exactly set in stone) but I couldn’t see who else he would interact with in order to have scenes.
I enjoyed all the scenes and actually look forward to most of the storylines this season, that sort of going into the unknown I guess. Not particularly fussed about Sam/Gilly but can deal with it, similarly I feel Bran’s story must be getting interesting for him to be reintroduced. Think it was a good idea holding him off from the premiere.
Cersei was oddly calm about Myrcella even in private. Ok she was upset but was calm enough to have a wee monologue although I guess uncontrollable sobbing wouldn’t make the best TV!
Curious as to whether the SS are gonna stay in KL or go back to Dorne. I feel it would be beneficial to them to have them stay in KL so they can interact with other characters outwith the slightly cartoonish (though she’s toned it down quite a lot) Ellaria.
By the end of the show it seems like Sansa will be the only woman who hasn’t brutally murdered someone!
This wasn’t Mel’s nightly ritual, or she wouldn’t look so nervous before disrobing. This was probably the first time she has seen herself in years/centuries.
I have HBO NOW so I just watch it whenever. Not sure about the channel. I like them, I think it’s a funny show with some information. I think once we get into more emotional and traumatic episodes, it’ll be a great chaser. Also, it’s only 30 minutes, so its not much investment of time. I watched most of it while making breakfast.
Eck,
As queen in the north, she may have someone murdered.
I think you really needed to forget about logic like you do when watching time travel movies.
So many things just seemed too convenient and easy.
The mutineers leave Jon’s body…why? The first person to find him is Davos…and then the next few people are all Jon supporters…they let them hide up in a room. They let Edd leave?
Aero Hotah going down so easily is odd. Bad guys in movies never go down this easily. The mountain was cut multiple times and poisoned and we saw what he did. Brienne cut the one guy on the horse and the horse fell on him and he was still fighting to get free when she slit his throat. As mentioned Doran held on for a longer time.
Seriously, Areo couldn’t smash the girl’s knee cap at least?
Trystane turning his back to a sand snake is ridiculous…he should have been able to injure one of them at least. A spear and a whip aren’t great weapons for close quarters.
Where was Trystane exactly? That all seems odd and unexplained.
Brienne is just there at the right time of course.
Jorah finding Dany’s ring was actually legit! Looking in the center of the horse trampling makes perfect sense. Not idly to the leaves of lothlorien fall, amirite?
Tyrion and Varys are just chilling unguarded in the streets with all the unrest…that they mention why walking…then they hurry towards a commotion they see people running from? Remember the last commotion you were in Tyrion?
Why didn’t the red woman stay in the room with Davos? Wouldn’t she feel unsafe as well…or at least Davos feel worried for her?
Arya and Dany’s story seemed reasonable.
TFT,
Gob: “Wait a second… wait, wait, wait. Take off your glasses. Oh… wait, wait. Let down your hair. No, glasses on, hair back up. Let’s just get that hair right back up. Glasses off. Glasses on. Hair up. Glasses off. Down, on. Have we done up, off?”
Eh I’d still hit it
I loved the episode. Loved the humor with the Dothraki – Khal Moro and his bloodriders are relaxed people. 😀 Also, Tyrion’s bad Valyrian and “baby-eating.”
Dorne’s storyline has become more interesting than last season, with the useless, sappy Trystane gone, and wise, I’ll-do-nothing-ever Doran also killed while his guards just stood by. I feel that now Dorne will be part of the action, instead of forever sitting on the sidelines.
I felt more for Cersei than in all of Season 5. Also, sounds like King Tommen is doing more behind the scenes to free his queen than Mommy knows about!
Loved the snow chase and Brienne being badass! Also Pod has been training all this time: his skills are improving. And Reek is letting some of Theon show through, finally!
The Wall – and poor Ghost! Mel’s glamor was a shocker – I felt that the necklace is not needed when her faith is strong, but when her faith is weak, without it she reverts back to true form. I am afraid of where this glamor reveal is leading to, next episode, and I’m dreading the increasing meltdowns amongst long-term die-hard fans. 😀
MOAR deaths next episode! And Rhaegal and Viserion free at last!
My bet would be High Sparrow takes over and declares the 7K a theocracy – since all Targaryen-Baratheon claimants are dead, he will claim that “the gods” will rule Westeros.
Ravyn,
Ah okay, thank you 🙂
TFT,
I agree with this. She no longer has her faith I think.
She is now seeing the truth.
rhymeswithweak,
Wow. Ripped the episode apart.
Kay,
Hmm, can you elaborate on this:
” I am afraid of where this glamor reveal is leading to, next episode, and I’m dreading the increasing meltdowns amongst long-term die-hard fans”
don’t make me nervous haha
rhymeswithweak,
Soooo, does that mean the truth is, that Jon was not really fighting in the flames?
An interesting dilemma for Cersei, I am sure that she would love Margaery to remain incarcerated or worse, but really she needs Tommen to produce an heir and prontissimo.
I think Cersei is changing up her tactics. Where normally she would unleash the fury on Jamie (or whoever), she seems to be more calculating. The lingering shot of her face seemed to show there’s more to her than just grief. Part of it seems to be to get Jamie to finally step up into his father’s place. But the other part is just her maybe paving the way for her comeback. Jamie may be a part of it (if he does indeed step up) or he may not. She’s a darkhorse to really consolidate her power, but will it matter if Tommen dies?
plop_plop,
She has magic…which we have seen. I’m guessing visions can be misinterpreted…or just one possible version of the future.
Dunno.
Prophecies be damned…I hope Tommen lives. Make your own choices!
Bran is in the next episode :), if you didn’t know already, they released an episode 2 preview, and Bran and Bloodraven is in it!
You know…I thought many moments were incredible. The acting was breathtaking by all. BUT..,Alfie Really hit it….Loved him!
I don’t know when I’m gonna get over the logic of putting Varys and Tyrion in charge of Mereen and everyone being cool about it. Varys plotted to kill Dany in seasons 1&2 and the Lannisters tricked Aerys Targaryen to open his gates so they could rape and slaughter the entire family. But sure, let’s give Dany’s dragons and soldiers at the hands of these people. Makes perfect sense. In this light, the Dorne kinslaying was an ok move. Have to admit I have a thing for strong women and liked the “weak men will never rule Dorne again” -line.
Highlight of the show was the North scenes. Good acting on everyone’s part. Especially Davos was a pleasure to watch. Thorne’s scene seemed rushed with everyone just being ok with him killing the High Commander. But I get they have a story to move forward and dozens of characters to work with. The writing was awkward at times but I’ve come to expect it from the show by now. The writer’s simply don’t know anything about characterization. Sansa, the one brought up to be a lady her entire life, don’t know the right words to say to Brienne. But this scene was written this way in order to write her progression this season. First she’s clumsy, soon she’s confident. Then in the next season all of that might be forgotten because they have new plot points to reach.
I waited Dany’s part the most. Unfortunately the Dothrakis had become total parodies of themselves. The chat between Khal Moro and his bloodriders was embarrassing. It picked up when Dany opened her mouth. Really liked her attitude here and the fact she brought up Mirri Maz Duur’s prophecy about her being barren (which indicates she’ll become pregnant later on). Also, Emilia Clarke’s acting was good. For some reason she always shines when she has foreign words to work on. Perhaps she thinks emotion counts more then than with English. Who knows?
King’s Landing was a snoozefest. The woman playing Cersei did a good job acting but that’s pretty much it. Again, revenge is vowed and Jaime refuses to progress as a character. The scene played out like a dozen before it. Which brings us to Mereen, where Varys and Tyrion prance around the streets (unarmed, may I add?) planning on saving the city just like King’s Landing in season 2. Another big rehash. And judging by the way Tyrion is portrayed in this show as some kind of genius/saint/saviour who always knows what to do, I can’t even get excited about his storyline. He always knows what to do. Always.
Oh, Melisandre. Really liking this fragile side of her. I actually hope that her removing her necklace and going to bed indicates her dying in her sleep. I just think that would be such a depressingly cool ending. Death by depression.
MakeThemBurn,
Varys didn’t conspire to kill Dany.
He sent assassins to apease Robert, but he also told Jorah about them so he can stop them.
Connor,
Yeah, I saw the preview. So excited! Looks he is having visions and looking a bit startled. I wonder what he just saw….
MakeThemBurn,
Melisandre is not dying
She will meet Arya again.
MakeThemBurn,
And give me a break on Sansa not knowing the full oath.
She clearly knew it, because she started it and finished it.
She forgot some words but I think it’s preaty understandable after she jumped from the walls of WF, was chased by dogs and crossed a ice river.
Deesensfan,
I just don’t see Mel dying.
We also got a promo pic of her on a horse leaving CB and judging by clothes of some background characters, they had wildling clothes, I think she is more then safe until at least mid season.
Deesensfan,
But first she has to kill Balon. Mel has a full plate, hence the gray hair and fatigue.
Mihnea,
this is such a silly critique. that sansa forgot her lines. Seriously? did they not just see what she did? lol
Mihnea,
I agree!!
Tycho Nestoris,
Why would Mel kill Balon?
Deesensfan,
those leeches: Joffrey, Rob and Balon
Tycho Nestoris,
oh yeah 😉
mind block
Jack Bauer 24,
Ravyn,
I loved “After the Thrones”! For those who listened to the Watch the Thrones podcast, it was a very similar format and style. The hosts were smart, well-informed, and had a good sense of humor. That humor may not be for everyone, but I’m a longtime reader/listener of Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan’s work. I’m pretty much on their wavelength.
The show ran about 33 minutes or so, and the first half of the show, Greenwald and Ryan basically did an around-the-world “Recap” and went around the map, talking about every storyline. I was impressed at how efficiently yet thoroughly they covered everything – no storyline went unaddressed (Margaery’s brief scene was probably the closest, but she was mentioned).
Given the topic that seems to be dominated today’s discussion It’s worth noting that as two Unsullied, they seemed quite positive about the developments in Dorne and what it foretold for the larger story. Some people will distrust that because it’s an HBO-sanctioned show and for what it’s worth, they weren’t too critical. But their enthusiasm seemed genuine to me.
Then there were two quick-hit segments – Who won the week?” (Davos) and “Who the f&ck was that?” – which is basically a minor character spotlight (Dolorous Edd Tollett).
About halfway through, they brought in Mallory Rubin, who stuck around for the rest of the show. The next segment “The Big Idea” – which this week was talking about the ascending power of the women on the show, with a specific focus on Sansa and Brienne. Then they did “Ask the Maester”, and brought in Jason Concepcion to talk about Melisandre and her glamour. They finished up with a “Preview” segment where each of the four asked a question related to something they’re looking forward to in the rest of the season.
All in all, I thought it was great. If you’re a book reader looking who’s looking for painstakingly deep and exhaustive analysis (particularly with respect to the source material), it may not be the show for you. But if you want a fun, light-hearted, yet quite thorough discussion of the entire episode by four people who clearly love the show, you might enjoy it. I certainly did.
Just my two cents.
Jack Bauer 24,
Well she needn’t dirty her hands…but she ensured the dead was done.
Tycho Nestoris,
Jack Bauer 24,
unsullied recap!!
Sorry my spoiler tag wasn’t working I just fixed it!
Luke Michael,
Amen,friend…That´s telling it like it is
rhymeswithweak,
Oh please. It is a fantasy tv show. It is supposed to divert us, and help us relax. Enjoy man. Don’t be such a stiff.
Jack Bauer 24,
Doesn’t really matter.
Mel also didn’t kill Robb, Walder Frey did.
She also didn’t kill Jofrey, Ollena did.
Just watched it and enjoyed it. It’s pretty cool having an after show for GoT and I’ll continue to watch it 🙂
Mihnea,
@makethemburn:
Sansa knew the words to the oath, but her mind is racing over what happened, so her slip on some words are really normal; she started on her own and ended on her own, Pod nudged her with a word or two.
Deesensfan,
🙂 You forgot about an episode that aired 3 years ago? Forgiven, of course.
Grailking,
Agreed.
Jack Bauer 24,
I know but well anything that needs covering shouldn’t be posted here
Sue is going to probably mention that again
Jack Bauer 24,
If something requires spoiler coding then it is completely unsuitable for an unsullied thread.
One of these days no one will post anything inappropriate in an unsullied thread, but I don’t hold out much hope.
Tycho Nestoris,
Hahahah
Well I’ve seen it over five times :p
I just finished watching a second time. Mihnea, you may be right after all. Second time around, Dorne is not that bad. Apart the “greedy bitch” line, which I still believe is awful.
On the other hand, being able to understand the Dothraki dialogue this time… well, it was kind of silly at times. Especially this whole Spanish Inquisition sketch with Khal Moro and his friends (any Monty Pythons fans?). Still looking forward to the Dothraki plot though.
Finally, I realised who Mel reminds me of: wasn’t she a spitting image of Maester Aemon’s? ?
Sou,
I wasn’t that excited about that line but didn’t dislike it either. Just ”meh”
My father laughed though… He really likes the SS……Tyene especially..
Jack Bauer 24,
Spoiler
Jack Bauer 24,
IMO it was more spec than spoiler [ spoiler ]we don’t know for certain that it was Euron. Damphair believes it was the Storm God[ / spoiler]
Sou,
I kinda liked the Dothraki part for one reason.
It showed the brotherly bond a Khal has with his bloodriders. They reminded me and my brothers bickering.
Tycho Nestoris,
People really don’t know how to use spoilers LOL.
A advise, try it couple of times before hand to get used with it.
Tycho Nestoris,
Tycho Nestoris,
O help me erase this! I messed up the spoiler tag. Plz don’t ban me
Mihnea,
Shame, Shame, Shame on me
Tycho Nestoris,
Okay everyone listen
This won’t work because the last spoiler box needs to be like this [/spoiler] no spaces remember that.
write the spoiler.
put ”/” in the last box.
Mihnea,
Thanks. I missed the small print: “Remove the extra spaces between the word spoiler and the brackets, and the front slash and brackets before publishing your comment.”
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/game-thrones-heavily-pirated-season-887343
Uh oh.
My Likes and Dislikes from Episode 1:
LIKES:
Theon’s redemption arc and the possible end of Sansa’s suffering. Finally!!!;
Brienne of Tarth coming back into play as a bad-ass with her brave and loyal sidekick, Pod the rod;
The creepy, evil reparte between Roose and Ramsay. Hard to tell which one is scarier;
Ramsay mourning Myranda in his uniquely psychotic Ramsay way, but at least we know his dogs eat well;
Tyrion and Varys together again;
The incesty, push-a-kid out of a window, Jaime re-emerging which may prove interesting if he should run into Brienne again;
Davos, just cuz he’s awesome;
Edd for speaking the line, “If you were planning to see tomorrow, you picked the wrong room.”
Melisandre showing us what she looks like without makeup.
DISLIKES:
1. Dorne, Dorne, Dorne. It’s not bad enough that the show runners decided to kill the most interesting characters in the Dorne storyline, but do they really expect us to believe that the enormous, Areo Hotah, one of the best warriors in Westeros, was killed by a child who stabbed him once in the shoulder with a pocket knife! REALLY? Do they also want us to buy that even after Ellaria called Doran a spineless craven twice, once in front of an audience which included a Lannister, that Doran would then go skipping merrily through the Water Gardens with her. PALEASE! If the showrunners actually like their audience and this show, they’ll end the hot mess that is Dorne and have Ellaria and the Sand Snakes devoured by grumpkins and snarks in Episode 2.
2. Melisandre showing us what she looks like without makeup. Although this is in the Pros section as well, I think it was one of those scenes that was good and bad. Good in that we finally got to see the real Melisandre, and bad because I think some viewers actually went blind after seeing Melisandre turn into a saggy boobed, pot bellied, crypt keeper. Thank God, Stannis is dead, because he probably would castrate himself after seeing that?
NEUTRAL (aka BORING):
Dany with the Dothraki (walk, walk, walk, say some words, walk some more)
Jorah and Daario’s seek and find mission (ride, ride, ride, say some words, ride some more)
Crud covered Margaery in prison. We get it, prison sucks.
Cersei resigning to fate, even though interesting, I think we all want Cersei, the
uber-bitch, back.
Hotah got stabbed in the back not the shoulder and it was a poison dagger to boot.
I disagree with this. Varys is the one who told Baratheon about Daenerys in season 1. Why would he tell him that if he meant to spare her life? Also, he didn’t stop there. He warned about Daenerys in season 2 aswell. Urging Tyrion to put an end to this woman with dragons. Again, why would he press the assasination of Dany just to save her the second time? And I think Jorah’s betrayal has been established in the show. He was pardoned for giving information and he admits that he suspected that the wine was poisoned due to the information he had given, stressing the point that Varys didn’t warn him about the poison. Even Tyrion bashes Jorah for betraying Dany, only to – following the show’s illogical tone – welcome Varys, the man Jorah betrayed Dany with, to rule beside him just minutes later.
Makes no sense and it isn’t supposed to make sense because in the books varys is anti-Dany. The show just decided to pull a 180 only because they cut out a character important to Varys’ storyline. Understandable for budget reasons but it proves yet again that the characters are acting completely out of character due to all the cuts and changes. Butterfly effect at best.
Well, this didn’t work for me, at all… At least after the first viewing.
Anything related to Dorne just got butchered even worse than I thought possible. The only interesting person alive there was killed right away. Areo Hotah’s whole point in existence was apparently smacking Bronn last season. And Trystane, being a blank canvas mostly (that means he might have developped into an interseting character, given an opportunity) was also killed off under very weird circumstances: he came to King’s Landing with Jaime, right? He was still on the dornish boat that brought them along with Myrcella. Given Myrcella was poisoned, why wasn’t Jaime holding him hostage, as in, why wasn’t he guarded? And how the heck did the Sand snakes get aboard? They were still in Dorne when the boat left. Was Trystane actually killed much later than all other events of the episode took place?
(Possibly: 1 – Jaime and dead Myrcella arrive in King’s Landing; 2 – Doran gets the letter, is killed; 3 – Obara and the other one leave for King’s Landing as fast as possible; 4 – They kill Trystane. But this still wouldn’t explain why trystane was still on the ship and how the Sand snakes got to him…)
Sansa is unfortunately still not doing anything by herself, she goes wherever Theon/Reek leads her, she does whatever he tells her to do. When Brienne offered her services again, she basically turned to Theon/Reek for guidance. She’s actually regressing again. With Littlefinger, she might have been under his influence, but she was still making her own decisions.
Also a minor quibble: So Podrick has already been training hard I suppose? He manages to do fairly well in one on one fight. That slightly stretched my believability.
In Meereen, I hope the barbecue will get explained later on. Because I see no point at all in destroying the fleet after Daenerys left (the Harpyes would rather have the Unsullied leave on the ships for instance, wouldn’t they? Since their queen was gone, they might have followed).
Daenerys’ adventures with the Dothraki actually weren’t that bad, except for me the humor didn’t quite work. Felt kinda forced.
Which leaves the Wall as the only setting that ended up housing a good story. Thorne’s explanations were believable and I can actually understand his point of view to a degree.
As for Melisandre, the last scene made me think she “put aside all artifice and finery” (as the High Sparrow would say) to prepare for death. After all, her visions, her faith were all proved to be wrong, she has nothing more to live for. She no longer needs and wants the gifts that were given to her (eternal youth and beauty, it seems). Although I might be wrong. Or even Melisandre might be wrong in thinking she’s lost purpose. Definitely intriguing.
Oh, and I nearly forgot about Margaery and Cersei. Their scenes were also among the best, and well acted.
Thanks for the review,Oz! Amazing you take time to post for us! Much obliged!
Wow, this website is becoming like a YouTube comment section. If something doesn’t make sense to you, you are accused of being a book purist OMG! or not smart enough to think on your own.
I think the problem is I think to much, and don’t just take what’s happening as, this and that could of happened, so it’s possible.
Instances, yes, if the sand snakes did jump on a ship right after they left the dock. Then yes, they would be able to catch up. But no one notices this other ship at KL or aboard the ship? The ship would have to be large enough for sea voyage, and have to get close for the snakes to board Jamie’s boat. Don’t say lots of ships go to KL or they got on a smaller boat to board, because I’m sure the Lannisters would really like to keep a close eye on a member of the family who just killed the princess.
Also the dogs, that were raised to track and kill, who grew up around horses and fighting would just run away after tracking their prey all day. Hunting dogs are usually rewarded after they find what they are looking for. So again, not very believable.
Could these things happen? Yes, but like I said, using my brain and knowledge it’s a big stretch to just swallow it and say, “it’s possible.”
I haven’t used any book info to come up with this just common sense. With that being said I enjoyed the episode and look forward to the new season.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BEoyouQy_FN/
Lol!
Oh yeah, I forgot this part. In season 4 they mentioned the fleet because a certain storyline was cut but now that they have decided to introduce it anyway, the fleet must be removed from the equation to make the reintroduced plot point work. Hence the burning ships.
I hate to sound overly negative (because I do like many things on the show) but Game of Thrones forces its characters to give way for plot points and that’s just not good writing. It’s frustrating to watch scene after scene where you think “ok, the only purpose of this scene and this character’s behaviour is to introduce plot point x later on”.
rorschach,
I was going to say somethng about that when I first read it. Wondered if anyone else noticed…..
weirwoodtreehugger,
If the timing is right, and Dany just happens to be on Westeros about that time, voila! Problem solved Unless of course Genrdy shows up.
I don’t agree with the theory that the Dorne plot is getting basically offed or cut down this season. Thinking about Ellarias motives and plans a bit, I come to the conclusion that almost all the open questions that the Dorne plot left last season have a plausible answer now. So it makes sense that this was the plan all along.
Ellaria wants war between Dorne and the Lannisters, that’s the main point. At what point in time she made that decision is not entirely clear. From what we know about Oberyn he even could have been on that same side, that would certainly be consistent with his behavior in Kings Landing. The relationship between Doran and Oberyn seems to have been a positive one, so I assume Oberyn didn’t wan’t to kill his brother, even if they disagreed about the issue of war. But Ellaria might never have had those reservations and she just didn’t go directly against Doran for Oberyns sake. I also assume that the whole revenge play wasn’t just for show, but maybe a final attempt to convince Doran. It seems like Ellaria genuinely loved Oberyn and wants to avenge him, but war is definitely the main goal, with or without Doran.
It seemed extremely careless, rash and unreasonable at the time, even for the sake of revenge, to kill a little girl that had nothing to do with it and at the same time risk everything… unless of course risking everything is the whole point. Ellaria did send Cersei the necklace to lure someone important and official to Dorne. This was to create a diplomatic incident to force Dorans hand. That is why Ellaria and the Sand Snakes waited for someone from Kings Landing to arrive to start their plot. They wanted to create conflict between Doran and the Lannister envoy, so they had to wait for his arrival. It was a bonus that it was Jaime himself. So they could have possible killed him off too for added tension. The plot was maybe not even to kill Myrcella, at least not right away, but to abduct her (otherwise they could have killed her right there).
The plot against Doran himself was a backup plan presumably with the support of some dornish lords. The poisoning of Myrcella was part of that plan B. It was a change of plan, after the first had failed, and the only remaining way to draw the Lannisters into conflict.
The open question is why the war is so important and to what end. Maybe it was a takeover attempt of Dorne from the beginning, or it was Oberyns actual revenge plot all along. A related question is how much the revenge angle is just to get people into the plot (Doran, the Dornish, maybe even the Sand Snakes themselves). Who else is behind it and to what extend was Oberyn involved from early on, or was it even partially his plan?
Jack Bauer 24,
Princessmaria,
Id watch that 🙂
One part I omitted from my previous (mostly) criticisms: Arya’s scene.
It seemed a little weird that the Waif would ‘teach’ Arya right on the street. Would that be normal in Braavos to see House of Black and White ’employees’ indulge in all sorts of weird activities, tolerating any sort of attacks?
Grailking,
I think Sansa forgetting the words to the oath was also meant to signify just how detached she’s been from her formal duties and her proper status in the last few years.
Instead of being a Lady of Winterfell or a Queen, as she was supposed to be, she’s been a prisoner bowing and scraping to all around her.
She hasn’t commanded the respect or authority to encounter such formalities. It’s like the last few years have been stolen from her and her sense of status and identity with them.
Never posted before… taking the plunge…
Did anyone else see Melisandre (sp?… apologies) removing her necklace as her realization that in order to do what is necessary in bringing Jon Snow back, she must forgo her power and magic and “transfer” that power to Jon?
In other words, she must shed the veil and the magic that goes with it and use that magic to resuscitate Jon Snow. She must lay herself bare, lose her pride, and transfer all that magic and power to Jon to bring him back; forever becoming not the beautiful Mel but the “hag” to bring Jon back. Or is that just too far fetched?
A personal sacrifice, shedding vanity, for the greater good?
My wife and I both laughed at that line, helluva lot better then the bad p.
Tycho Nestoris,
you forgot to remove thespaces between the brackets.
I was just happy to get my Jorah fix!
TOIVA,
Sansa is unfortunately still not doing anything by herself, she goes wherever Theon/Reek leads her, she does whatever he tells her to do. When Brienne offered her services again, she basically turned to Theon/Reek for guidance. She’s actually regressing again. With Littlefinger, she might have been under his influence, but she was still making her own decisions.
Also a minor quibble: So Podrick has already been training hard I suppose? He manages to do fairly well in one on one fight. That slightly stretched my believability.
Wow, you really don’t get it:
Sansa was raised high born, I doubt Ned or Cat would let her travel anywhere without proper escorts.
You put Sansa, Margery, Cersei and most any high lady and they pretty much do the same.
Sansa turns to Theon for silent advice and he nods to let her know accepting is ok nothing wrong with that.
She properly notice the water was too cold to properly survive ( she took a step in first) before saying she couldn’t , when Theon told her the choices she went in, a decision she made.
She made decisions in KL and the Eyrie, but LF and others were pulling those strings, the main decision she makes in the Eyrie ; backing LF was truly hers and let us knows she’s in the game, almost every thing before that she was a puppet for people; exceptions being: on the rampart looking at heads, facing Joffry and wanting to push him over the edge,pleading for her father’s life in court,saving Dontos,calming the woman at the night of Blackwater, goading Joffry to be in the front lines, deciding to stay and put her trust in Stannis instead of a drunken Sandor, Up North she initiated her escape from her room, she decided to jump with Theon, she rightly and or wrongly challenges verbally the Boltons in WF her home, she put Myranda in her place then let us know she’s scared as hell, she makes the final decision to go ahead with the wedding.
Some decisions are better then others, but most are hers the result is after 6 years she out lasted, her mother,father,Robb,Jon(?),Tywin, Lysa, the Hound(?),Trant,Dontos,Joffry, Myrcella.
She’s no longer in prison; yet Margery and Loras still are, and she is in a better position to get her family back, as the other houses are falling apart.
Grailking,
I know. I am really sorry for that.
I don’t quite agree, she was still around high born, she knew the proper way to ask for her father’s life, she knew and followed all the protocols, she took the chance to get back to Winterfell, and the crypt scene along with her words between the Boltons and Myrands doesn’t speak detachment to me.
I’m looking at it as a normal stress related brain fart, she knew the beginning and the ending; if she didn’t I be inclined to believe your interpretation of disconnection, but everything screams to me she is now connected to her Stark and Northern side.
#3 episode…Oathbreaker….isn’t leaving the Watch called that ?
JCC,
Welcome! Hadn’t thought of that at all, interesting idea!
Grailking,
I’m not quite sure what point you’re trying to make. Whether she’s never actually been making any decisions herself (barring the thoughts of killing Joffrey, etc.) or that she was always making her own decisions, but those mostly being: “whatever (s)he says”.
What I’m trying to say is that Sansa has always had times when she was proactive (within certain bounds) and times when she falls into an almost coma. I’ve actually been noticing this in some comments last year, maybe even before that.
Examples of the first case are most of her time with Littlefinger (she is inquisitive, she thinks she can decide – as much as she’s being manipulated more or less), or the time she pleaded before the whole court for Joffrey to be merciful of Ned, or her (foolhardy) defiance at the Bolton family dinner, etc.
But in between those times, she looks almost as if her personality vanished, she becomes indecisive, resigned, lets whoever near her decide.
The major problem I had with Sansa in season 5 was that her disposition kept changing almost every scene. At first she was defiant, one might even say courageous against the odds. Then she regresses into the fearful ghost like persona.
What I was very much hoping for is for Sansa to finally stop yoyoing in this manner (and obviously I wasn’t rooting for her to get permanently broken a la Reek but rather the second option). Frankly all that was needed last season was for Sansa to grab Theon’s hand when they decide to run and jump from Winterfell instead of Theon leading her. And in this one last episode, a simple thank you to Brienne. Or instead of fearfully looking at Theon when Brienne kneels before her a small air of confidence or relief.
But neither of that is what we got. I really like Sansa and want her to become a stronger character, but this continuous lack of progress is very tiresome.
I hope I managed to share my thoughts in an understandable manner.
EDIT: Just a final note, I really hope that at last, after long years, Sansa will finally break free of this cursed wheel in this season. The opposite could ruin it for me in a similar way as Dorne ruined season 5.
Grailking,
Well, the examples you give are exactly the sort of thing I was talking about when I said that she’d spent the last few years bowing and scraping to those around her.
Begging for her father’s life, putting on a front for the Boltons, trying to second guess Littlefinger’s games and so on.
This was the first time in years, perhaps ever, that she has really been in the position of having somebody significant looking up to her as an authority figure. And she’s unsure of herself as a result; still looking to Theon for reassurance and requiring Pod to remind her of the words.
But finally composing herself, finding the right words and completing her first real duty as a noblewoman is a sign that, as you suggest, she may finally be about to live up to her name and command authority and respect where she belongs, in the North.
That’s one of the ways I interpret it anyway. You’re free to disagree.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
I suppose you’re also reacting to my comment here, though I’m not entirely sure. Seems like we’ve all delved deep into Sansa’s past experience.
Either way, as I said, I hope Sansa finally shows some signs of growth this season. Particularly now that she might have as much freedom anyone can really ask for in Westeros (the 7 kingdoms, anyway). It’s really only the very traumatic events that she lived through in previous seasons that basically forced me to reluctantly accept her weird behavioral changes.
Off topic remark: Didn’t Myranda seem surprisingly ‘structurally intact’ after the plunge and subsequent splash from the Season 5 finale?
Cersei did have 3 children who have died. The stillborn baby at the start of her marriage to King Robert, Myrcella and Joffrey. So that part of the Prophecy by the witch is complete. Tommen is the 4th child.
JCC,
JCC,
I like your theory. I think that also implies that she would Die without the Necklace protecting her. Thus we have seen a Scene in the season trailer where Sir Deavos stands next to a funeral fire. Perhaps he burns Melissandre after she resurects Jon Snow.
Cock Merchant,
Doran was actually alright. He just didn’t tell Ellaria his plan all along. He wanted to help Danerys regain the Throne from the Lannisters, but sadly he kept it a secret and it died with him. But the way the Show plays this story it seems, is that Ellaria will start her own war against the Lannisters now. Seems a bit repetitive though, we already had the Clash of Kings before…lol But I think Dorne will play a bigger role this season.
MakeThemBurn,
Burn the ships, so Victarion Greyjoy can come to the rescue later…lol
Yes you are right.
I do t know if anyone’s brought this up, but why guard Jon’s body if they’re just gonna burn it anyway? Why risk your life instead of just leaving him there and getting revenge on Thorne later? What are Davos and Ed thinking? If your not gonna bring him back or if he is really dead then why lock yourselves in a room with a lost cause? I would have done it differently. What happens between the time Mel saw the body and going back to her room? Just very curious… Anyone have any thoughts?
Jon is going to come back, he will be resurected by either Melissandre or Thoros. I don’t see any other strong Character that will replace him in terms of fighting the White Walkers at the Wall. Also, the battle scenes we have seen in the Season 6 trailer shows the Wildlings fighting the Boltons, that wouldn’t happen unless Jon Snow asked them to.
Jason,
Quote from Emilia when asked about this season:
“Clarke says there is very little need to “set the scene” in the coming season which will allow the series to get right into the action and stay there.”
I thought more action would happen than what did, my fault for misinterpreting that and thinking that would include episode 1, as there are so many loose ends to tie up from last season.
Cock Merchant,
Fully agree.
Regardless if you liked Dorne or not. Them just brushing the story aside doesn’t make sense.
Why put Dorne on path to war with the Lannisters and put 2! Sand Snakes in KL, if you just want to end that story.
I have nothing against ending that story. Until last Episode I was very ”meh” about it, I just loved that we where sparred Arianne.
But if they wanted to end it, they should have just killed Ellaria and the Sand Snakes and leave Doran in charge of Dorne.
There the story ends. Trystane comes home, war is avoided, Doran rules in peace to the end of times.
What they did to me shows the opposite, they put Dorne into the story not end it.
Of course those who hate it want it to end but, to me, this path they took, makes no sense if they just decided to end the story.
Anyway I’m curious to see where this goes and for the first time, in the books and show, that I’m looking foward for more Dorne.
People just have to realize that Doran had no plan in the show, not that he had one in the books anyway…..
MakeThemBurn,
It’s the same in the books……
Really no difference here….
Doran had a plan in the books, he hated the fact that Ellaria thought he was weak. When in actual fact in secret he sent a Prince of Dorne to Meerem to recruit Danery’s Dragons and help her kill the Lannisters by joining forces with the Dornish Army. All she had to do is Marry the Prince, which she refused. But anyway the Dorne story in the books is very different in the Show. In the show the Prince of Dorne never gets to Meerem, unless they add that this season, which wouldn’t make sense, now Doran is dead.
Maybe it’s simply a mark of respect that they want to give Jon’s body a proper wake and not leave it to the doubtful action of Alliser Thorne. Remember that Jaime stood vigil over Tywin, there doesn’t have to be a “point” to it, just simple respect (well OK, Jaime and Cersei had a less orthodox way with Joffrey, but still!)
Also people in shock don’t always behave in a completely rational way.
Danny Todica,
Unsullied recap mate.
And no he has not. He had 1, but he abandones it…..and the 2nd one is pure chance.
Ghost of Summer,
They brought Jon’s body in out of respect. After discovery they’re not going to just leave him laying out there on the ground. Right after they do so, we see them coming to terms with what just occurred and Edd plans for revenge. They aren’t specifically guarding his body, they are in danger themselves. Remember when Davos and the other loyalist make it clear that if they go out there at Alliser’s behest they will be killed.
That’s not what they’re doing. They brought the body to his room. Then they barricated themselves in that room. They’re protecting themselves and Ghost, not Jon’s body.
Answers to some of the criticisms:
– The Sand Snakes could have taken another ship. I’m guessing they’re trained masters of stealth so could have navigated kings landing/crept aboard.
– the Dorne story is leading to the Lannisters being embroiled in multiple wars just when their allegiance with the Tyrell’s is failing.
– the reason the guards let Doran be killed is because it’s a sort of coo, many in Dorne want war for ALL the history they have with the Lannisters.
LittleWanger,
I think he lost the army for 3-4 reasons.
Not doing anything when Elia died.
Same when Oberyn died.
And letting the kingslayer leave, with the heir. They probaly saw this as Doran tried to woo favour with the crown.
They might also disliked that he married his heir to a bastard born of incest.
But I agree, it really set’s the story in a way that the Lannisters are surrounded by enemies.
Is everyone convinced Jon didn’t warg into Ghost?
LittleWanger,
As of now yes.
If we get some hints in further episodes I’ll think again but as of now I saw nothing that hints at him warging.
Just proximity at the time of death and the fact Ghost seemed to be trying to tell Davos something (prodded his arm or hand if I remember)
I think the whole season is moving towards the Battle of the North where the big players maybe a Tyrell/Vale/Little Finger alliance with Lloras (has LF already freed him somehow) and the weedy Robin (boy King one); the Lannisters with the Big Guy leading the charge along with Tommen (boy King two) (they might be fighting on two fronts – Jaime vs Dorne?); John Snow born again leading the wildlings/Davis/Mel/loyal nights watch; and finally The Boltons and assembled others (where are the Freys?).
Wild card: the party gets gate crashed by the white walkers.
I imagine Brienne and crew will somehow find either Rickon or Bran or both.
Hopefully I’m totally wrong and GoT proves predictably unpredictable!
Welcome man (or woman!). Well the Melisandre story line is really fascinating. I’ve seen some theories like yours, and I’m sure there’s something to it. But my understanding was that Mel really didn’t have any powers before magic “came back” to the world, through the Dragons awakening, or the white walkers coming back, or whatever has caused this, the same way Thoros of Myr didn’t have any.
She just had this glamour, that she maintained through potions and deceit? So her necklace probably wasn’t a “magic item” before. Also, she probably doesn’t know how her new powers work, so is doubting herself because can’t tell what are “real visions”or wishful thinking.
I don’t think is some part of the daily ritual like some have stated, or that she’s lying there to die. I think is a way that the show-runners have to show audience her true age, show her doubts and vulnerabilities and also for a bit of shock value in a first episode that was not that exciting because had to recap all of season 5 info for the causal viewers, that make most of the audience.
I love Mel and I love Carice, and I love characters who have doubts so really looking forward to her character arc this season!
PS: To recap, because reading my ramblings again didn’t make much sense, I don’t see it as her making a personal sacrifice, or gathering strength, but just lost and helpless and full of doubts and really really tired
Especially when your dagger is coated with god knows what. She could’ve pricked him with a pin and killed him.
I liked the season opening, there were a few ‘jumping off the couch’ moments for me, too. Loved the Brienne-Sansa moment, and the hug with Theon seemed some kind of a redemption to me. Dorne was unexpected, and I had the same thought that the dagger that killed Areo Hotah seemed to flimsy to just take him out like that. Also, how dumb was Tristane, to turn his back to someone, who came to kill him???? He kind of deserved what he got, for that.
Loved how they increased the volume of people speaking in the blind Arya scene, it gave a really clear feeling, how your other senses become hightened, when you lose your sight, even though we, the audience were perfectly able to see everything.
I have two theories concerning what we saw in this episode. Kind of ‘expect the unexpected’ 🙂
One, I can’t get the idea out of my head, that the torching of Dany’s ships is just a ruse to get us to think that she will remain in Essos for an extended period of time, I think she is finally going to go to Westeros, and fairly soon (although I do not know how, but this is what my intuition is screaming in my ear).
My second is that Tommen will not die, as it is strongly applied, I think he is actually going to be around for a lot longer than we expect. In the prophecy ‘Gold will be their crowns, gold their shrouds’ there is nothing to imply that they will die young, so again, as a twist after everyone is certain this is it for Tommen, he will remain a player for much longer.
And finally, I was certain that they would not bring back Jon Snow in the first episode, it would have been too soon and too obvious. I like this way better.
Now off to read the comments 🙂
No poison is instant though…I mean nothing is perfect, so it’s ok with an episode having some mistakes. No big deal 😉
As always Oz great review 🙂
If you take a look at the dagger that Tyene used, it had a very short blade. For a guy like Areo Hotah, in my oppinion, that would barely pierce the skin and muscles on his back, but too short to reach the heart for him to die like that (falling as a sack of potatoes).
Princessmaria,
The show gave no indication that Prince Doran was the most interesting character in Dorne or that Hotah was the greatest warrior in westeros. Where are you getting that from?
Yeah, it was strange that Ramsay did not go after them, bit if he did, it would have meant that either Brienne or Ramsay had had to die, which would have been very unfulfilling at this point.
In regard of Sansa, She clearly remembered the beginning of the oath, which may be a Northern/Winterfell custom only, for all we know, she may not have heard it for many years in KL, so she just forgot how it goes, in my opinion. I think she was too cold and tired at this point to just bait Pod.
Cock Merchant,
Very well said.
SweetTrix,
Lets assume there was poison on it. Because that’s what they do
Why does every little small thing need to be questioned
I find it funny when some commenters believe they could be better writers than the show creators.
SweetTrix,
I agree about that. She is a Lady through and through, but lets give her a break? Hahaha
TOIVA,
I guess it is 🙂
Grailking,
Thumbs up
Danny Todica,
Danny Todica,
I haven’t read the books, but this is book stuff because I never heard of that person or Doran backing Dany (??), and shouldn’t be posted here.
Yes, sorry didn’t realise, I am in the other Comments section now, with the book readers.
Ghost of Summer,
I don’t think they are “guarding” his body. They found his body and took him inside, like anyone would do. They are the only ones who they each can trust. So they are hiding out in the room, waiting for Edd to return. They also brought Ghost in to protect him as well. It makes total sense.
Melisandre saw Jon and went into major depression mode.
Doesn’t Doran say to Ellaria in S5E10 that ‘ you are the mother of four of my nieces’?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Totally. They are known for their posion antics. Come on. Oberyn Style!
SweetTrix,
I like your theory about Dany and westeros.
Pau,
Some poison can be.
SweetTrix,
I was right then.
They simply swapped the mother of one of the younger girls. Like Obella or Loreza… It’s not like the show will ever cast them…They are background characters with absolutly no lines or anything.
So Ellaria has 4 girls with Oberyn. Just swap Tyene with another sister and everything is fine.
SweetTrix,
Okay so someone above mentioned that she already lost a child before Joff and Myrcella. So that would make the three children that would be prophesized to die.
But the prophecy does state that they have golden crowns, meaning they are blonde so I do think the reference was to Tommen, and not the child she told Catelyn about in season 1 (the child was black of hair). The sweet boy that he is, I do think he will die young, it will have more of an effect. My guess is he is going against her this season… I wonder if she will turn against him. I don’t know. That would be brutal.
I think often it is really hard to make the distinction between what we know as an audience, and what the actual people in the story know. For most of the NW men all they heard were some stories from other people, never seen it with their own exes, and we know that for centuries the same stories were just fables told to children. And in S1E1 Ned Stark says that ‘a madman sees what he sees’ so it is most likely that most of the grown men did not really believe much of what JS was saying.
If you think back to the Hardhome scene, the discussion with the elders, even a lot of wildlings did not take the WW threat seriously, and walked out on Jon.
So in my opinion the NW is not really aware of the real WW situation, for them it may be similar to the squabbles of King’s Landing. But Jon’s decision to bring in the wildlings probably seemed much more menacing to them, as they have been fighting wildlings for years or decades, so I get why they thought Jon Snow put the NW in jeopary.
Also, thei probably believe that the wall is pretty much impregnable, unless someone willingly lets through the enemy (JS-wildlings).
I don’t think this was ever established on the show, so kind of spoilery…..
SweetTrix,
Well she already used it once with Bronn, and no one even noticed.
And the whole family is known for poison. So its not much surprise. (I haven’t read the books and I came to that conclusion)
SweetTrix,
Good point.
& based on your point, it was not that difficult for Thorne to convince the NW men and make his defense.
Deesensfan,
In medieval time only the kids who survived infancy are counted.
Aerys, Dany’s father had like 7-9 kids, all died before they where 2 years.
No one says he had 7 kids. Everyone says he had 3.
Rhaegar, Vyserys and Daenerys, the ones who survived.
That’s why I don’t think that boy with Robert counts. Not to mention that the prophecy says they will have Golden ”crowns”, witch many think refers to the colour of the hair, not a real crown, and Cersei’s boy with Robert was dark haired.
Mihnea,
That said.
I wouldn’t mind Tommen surviving….He is really sweet and with a bit of guidance would have made a decent king.
Actually Mel didn’t kill Robb or Jeoffrey herself, so she doesn’t need to kill Balon personally. She had already cast the spell, and I guess Balon will meet his destiny, regardless of what happens now to Melisandre.
Mihnea,
Yeah, that is what I was saying. Someone commented that she already lost a child (the baby) and I was saying I don’t think its that child because he should have a golden crown (blonde hair).
Mihnea,
I agree. But I think he will die. How? By the Sand Snakes? Or Cersei herself?
As others have said, they aren’t “guarding” Jon. They’re just trapped because of what’s going on around them. I don’t think anyone is too fussed about burning his body yet either: people need to die beyond the Wall to get turned into wights, right? Thorne wants to get rid of any opposition to his rule, then he probably plans to stage some Maester Aemon style funeral so that he can pretend he acted respectfully. The others in the room just want Tormund to hurry up and get them out. Mel is the only character who knows a resurrection is possible because she’s seen Thoros bring back Beric … but she’s off having a depressive episode.
I thought Sansa not remembering the whole vow and Pod gently reminding her was a nice touch. She’s exhausted, freezing, and she and Theon are both suffering some form of PTSD. We saw a glimpse of both characters beginning to regain their old selves, but they’re not there yet.
SweetTrix,
I know. I had forgotten about the leeches. I am assuming his death is coming then.
Deesensfan,
Cersei will do it by mistake I think.
She causes some war with the Faith perhaps and Tommen dies in the chaos.
The Sand Snakes isn’t a bad bet though.
If he is to die, I think it will happen more towards the end of the season, like episode 8-10.
msd,
I remember that promo pic with young Mell on a horse.
I hope she finds a bit of faith and at least try to bring him back.
Like Thoros did. He didn’t say the words because he believed them, he said them because they where the only one he knew.
But then why would Maggy the frog say that she would have 3 children? This was one thing that didn’t make sense to me when I first saw the Maggy scene, as in season one it was already established, that she gave birth to 4 children.
Mihnea,
Cersei killing Tommen through her actions, would complete the circle. Everything that has happened to her children has been due to her stupid decisions.
SweetTrix,
She did had 3. Those who survived.
How many kids did Aerys had? 7-9. One lived until he was 2 years old, but no one says he had 7. Everyone says he had 3, the ones that reached adulthood.
Mihnea,
yeah she is not going to stay old. they were just showing us
Although poison needs time to take effect, it doesn’t happen in a second.
The other two points you make can definitely be understood that way. (I don’t like the execution at all, but fine.)
However this mystery about Obara and Nymeria in King’s Landing doesn’t make sense any way I turn it.
Littlefinger’s jetpack aside – because we really have no idea about the time progression in the show, ie. they could have come by ship or by land the moment Trystane departed or even after Doran was killed, we really dont know.
1) IF we’re to think the two slithered aboard the dornish ship without anyone in King’s Landing and on the way knowing it, how come they’re clothed in the obvious dornish way? Anyone would see them coming from a mile away.
Fix: Have them throw down some old shrouds that were concealing them after they come to Trystane. It shows they were disguised all the way.
2) IF we’re to think Trystane resides on the ship (for possibly weeks after he comes to King’s Landing, depending on when exactly Obara+Nymeria come), how come he’s seemingly unprotected? Or not even being blamed for Myrcella’s death and being imprisoned (that could still happen on the ship, in theory, if he was without his sword)?
Fix: A sound of someone fighting/dying right in front of Trystane’s cabin’s door could have been added so that we have an indication the Sand Snakes had to evercome at least some guards.
In regards to the question of why Jaime hasn’t thrown Trystane in the black cells or whatever he was thinking of Trystane at all, I hope we’ll yet get some answers that would clarify the situation.
Deesensfan,
Yeah, in retrospect, I guess that’s fine. It’s just how I’ve been disappointed by the episode that I started questioning everything.
TOIVA,
Jaime wanted to send Trystane to back to Dorne to protect him from Cersei.
I think it was clear that the guards where on the Sand Snakes side.
And Why would they feel suspicios of a ship going to KL. It’s the capital and has a big port.
TOIVA,
I mean no one really reacted. The HOBAW is probably known there, like last season when the two guys were approaching arya and then they saw the man in the grey cloak and they ran away.
its interesting how some were so disappointed and let down, while others enjoyed it so much. two extremes.
I think Ellaria and the SS must have known from the moment of the poison kiss, that they have to take action. It is not as if they thought maybe noone will find out….. So I guess they planned all of this at the same time with the kiss, but I agree, this episode was barely 50 minutes long, it really should have had at least another minute with the SS getting on that ship.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
TOIVA,
I don’t think anyone can expect an 11-13 YO to just snap out of the stuff Sansa or Arya for that matter been through so the yo-yoing is normal.
I also feel Sansa has always been playing the game since her father was thrown in the black cells, her pleading for his life isn’t bowing by her, it’s her using the system to try and get his life spared.
people think she’s passive and does nothing, I think she’s using the system ( how she knows it )to try and get what she wants.
Sansa’s vacillating is part of her changing tactics when or as things change and she needs to rethink her plans and a sign of her not being totally sure of herself ; which to me is normal.
Now that she is free and Brieenne pledged her sword we will see her take charge, but we will also maybe see her switch between docile to close to full revenge mode just like Cersei,Margeri and Danrys, her advantage ( taking a play from Geno Auriemma) she will have Davos and they won’t .
I think she will listen to him and weigh his words more carefully.
Exceptions, being Ramsey, Roose and LF ; though GRRM could keep her from finding out LF role.
Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
TOIVA,
I don’t think anyone can expect an 11-13 YO to just snap out of the stuff Sansa or Arya for that matter been through so the yo-yoing is normal.
I also feel Sansa has always been playing the game since her father was thrown in the black cells, her pleading for his life isn’t bowing by her, it’s her using the system to try and get his life spared.
people think she’s passive and does nothing, I think she’s using the system ( how she knows it )to try and get what she wants.
Sansa’s vacillating is part of her changing tactics when or as things change and she needs to rethink her plans and a sign of her not being totally sure of herself ; which to me is normal.
Now that she is free and Brieenne pledged her sword we will see her take charge, but we will also maybe see her switch between docile to close to full revenge mode just like Cersei,Margeri and Danrys, her advantage ( taking a play from Geno Auriemma) she will have Davos and they won’t .
I think she will listen to him and weigh his words more carefully.
Exceptions, being Ramsey, Roose and LF ; though GRRM could keep her from finding out LF role.
ETA: I think we are on the same page, I think it’s her going passive then active people don’t like, I think it’s normal and once she gets stability and she sees she has people who truly support her, she will become the Stark everyone wants.
Yes, not very realistic, I expected close to a smashed melon.
Deesensfan,
Thanks, I needed that after my spoiler snafus yesterday.
yes, for now.
Maybe Millisandra will channel his spirit into Ghost, so they can heal him, but I don’t know.
Wasn’t it Tyrion who sent Myrcella to Dorne? Something Cersei very much objected. And Joffrey’s death.. He had it coming due to his nature. He had been out of control ever since he was a little child, torturing animals etc which suggests psychopathic behaviour. Considering Tommen and Myrcella came out sweet, I wouldn’t exactly blame Cersei for Joffrey’s nature either.
I’m no fan of Cersei but I object the thought that she’s to blame for the death of her children. Westeros was ripe for war ever since the Targaryens were killed. And Cersei’s children were victims of that war imo. I think the last part of the prophecy, the valonqar bit is a self-fulfilling one.
Pau,
PS: To recap, because reading my ramblings again didn’t make much sense, I don’t see it as her making a personal sacrifice, or gathering strength, but just lost and helpless and full of doubts and really really tired
===================================================
I take it as them showing she lost her faith, she is destroyed by misreading her fires and giving up.
The stone is needed for the glamor, but for it to work she needs her faith in what she does, as long as her faith is strong the glamor will work and the ruby does not have to be on her just close by.
I think that’s why when in the bath she was still glamored her faith is still at it’s peak.
She only fell about 50-60 feet / ~15 meters, enough for a broken neck and instant death but it’s not going to result in a “smashed melon” appearance! Even Bran was perfectly fine above the waist after his fall. 10% of people live after a fall of 7 stories…
And to add to the above she could have been in rigor mortis.
MakeThemBurn,
I have no clue what a volanquar is.
Anyway, I personally think she is to blame for their deaths.
In season 1, she told Joffrey that as a king he can do whatever he wants. And he did. If she was a better mother she may have avoided that.
And yes, Tyrion DID send Myrcella to Dorne. But if it wasn’t for Cersei’s crazy adamant accusation that her brother killed Joffrey, and then choosing the Mountain as her champion against Oberyn, knowing her daughter was in Dorne. Again, her stupid decisions.
And the death of Tommen will be the same. Her rising up against Marg and the Tyrells by giving the High Sparrow power will blow up in her face (it already has) but even more so when Tommen dies during this clash.
Grailking,
I completely agree with you re: her faith.
Now we know she went back to the wall after season 5 looking for Jon.
Not really, at least in our world. We can always argue that is fantasy but that would be a lazy argument in my opinion
Look, there’s no need to defend every little aspect of the show, D&D are human and make mistakes, and criticizing those mistakes helps everyone get better at their jobs 😉
Also when we’re able to acknowledge something we love is not perfect gives more credibility to our opinions. Otherwise we become fanboys and we get angry at everybody just for thinking differently than us, when, at least in my case, love the show as much as the next person. And it’s this love that makes me look for things to make it better. We should be able to criticize the things we love specially because we love them. Not defend them blindly just because. Or at least understand that just because someone is criticizing some aspect of it they’re not haters, just lovers with a different take
And don’t see this as an attack to you, I’m just trying to defend some people that like me love the show but have some minor quibbles about it 😉
I agree but we can really get rid of the necklace if that’s the case. It’s just a symbol of her power, which would work as long as she has faith, regardless of the necklace being around. They probably forgot about it when she took the bath…doesn’t really matter. That scene It’s more about showing us her mental state than anything else (And also showing the 99% of the viewers that she’s really, really old, in a very graphic manner)
Pau,
I am not one to pretend all is good and provide biased opinions. Trust me. I am, however, more relaxed then others when I watch Game of Thrones (or any other show).
BUT I just don’t think that was a mistake. 😉 That scene was fully sold to me.
We don’t have to agree.
I know youre not perfect, youre a Barca fan 😛
Tycho Nestoris,
While this is very minor, you’re in an Unsullied post… and sentence that starts with “In the books, ” is probably not welcome here.
Yes, I agree and apologies for that.
Why hasn’t Jon turned into a wight yet? hmmmmmm 🙂
little dove,
A WW has to turn him into a wight
Deesensfan,
I think the issue people have with what’s going on in Dorne is that it goes directly against what Dorne and Oberyn stood for. Oberyn was pretty strongly against harming “little girls” and innocent people. Ellaria is doing this all as vengeance for him which is quite stupid. It’s also quite stupid how easily Doran’s guard went down. He is supposed to be a warrior and he went down with 1 stab of a dagger. Even if it was poisoned like Dornish weapons typically are, I still expected better fight back on that.
Lastly, Ellaria is stupid for seeking revenge due to Oberyns death. He volunteered as champion to fight the Mountain and SHOULD have won. He was being a cocky idiot and it lead to his death. He was not betrayed or stabbed in the back. He chose to fight and his death should be accepted. His sister on the other hand, I understand still wanting revenge for that.
Deesensfan,
Oh okay. I was thinking that they all turned into wights if their bodies weren’t burned for some reason.
Mark,
Yes but Ellaria going against Dorne/Oberyn does not mean that people should question the writer’s story decisions…. In that case you would not cheer for Ellaria. It does not mean it is bad story telling. We just don’t agree with her actions as being something Oberyn would do. ANd she is clearly blinded by revenge no matter the fact that Oberyn chose to fight the mountain. I don’t believe her actions are out of the ordinary. Ellaria is NOT Oberyn.
Eddard Stark would disapprove of MANY of the things his children have done so far. That does not make it bad story telling.
In terms of the whole “warrior going down too quick”, yes Hotah is a body guard and should be able to defend himself, but being attacked from behind without being aware, definitely not always easy to defend oneself.
Plus, in the show, hes never been presented as the greatest warrior of all as some have said.
MakeThemBurn,
The last bit is book-only.
More explanations:
– Ellaria loved Oberyn, her grief could be stronger than her logic/existing morality. Her thirst for revenge is driving everything she does. I don’t find it hard to imagine her behaving like this, she always seemed quite a slippery customer even when Oberyn was alive. Hate can lead to the demonisation of whole races of people in someone’s eyes.
– The Sand Snakes are trained killers, stab any man in exactly the right place in the back and they’re toast. Imagine being stabbed on a pressure point on your body. She might have added some fast acting poison to the blade to make sure, who knows? Large warrior dying from a undefended stab in the back isn’t that hard to believe.
– Mel seeing the vision of Jon Snow fighting at Winterfell…this is still highly likely to happen if he’s resurrected (the show has gone out of its way to say this is possible).
– Varys has never openly gone against Dany (on the small council he was obviously a spy). He is, in a similar way to Little Finger, an unpredictable operator. His true allegiance seems to be with Ilyrio alone. He may have true respect for Tyrion and/or Dany we don’t know. He may want peace for the realm…or could this in fact be the exact opposite of what he’s seeking? He is an accomplished actor after all.
The thing is we really don’t know what Oberyn stood for. For once we only know what he said. But I agree, he probably wouldn’t like harming an innocent girl, he seemed sincere there. But that doesn’t mean Ellaria did agree with him, or that she can’t change her mind. Also as I wrote somewhere above, I don’t think revenge is her only motive, at least not the kind where she kills someone just to hurt others.
Fewer people seem to care about this point, but I think it’s actually the main flaw in that scene. It’s not unlikely that Tyene could kill Areo by ambush, anyone can be killed that way, with the right method. Stabbing a guard in armor with a little knife is not the right method though. Tyene might be an experienced fighter, but she is still a girl and doesn’t have the power to reliably stab through armor with a little dagger. Also one small stab is not enough for a guy like that, he might be mortally wounded, but he wouldn’t go down that quickly and might very well be able to kill everyone around him before he bites it.
Those are all details almost no one cares about though. Even if you didn’t think that scene was realistic you might not think of a realistic scene as realistic either, because most people have no clue about fighting with medieval weapons and armor, I am also no expert. From a storytelling perspective it’s one of those things were storytellers go for the drama rather then realism because it would be hard to please experts and everyone else will either like it or not regardless of realism.
Only if the producers themselves would be fighting nerds they would care enough, and in this show that doesn’t seem to be the case.
That argument is very lacking. I don’t know why people think that, it seems like there is a lack of ability to take someone elses perspective. If someone killed your lover, would you like that person if it turns out that your lover was an ass? If someone you love get’s killed by being a cocky idiot it’s fine? If that makes sense to anyone than that someone is pretty weird.
Now this opens another can of worms. If I accept that Jaime doesn’t blame Trystane and wants him back in Dorne, away from ‘potentially vengeful’ Cersei, why didn’t he turn the ship and inform Doran right away?
But fine, let’s assume that’s what Jaime wanted to do, only that he wanted to bring dead Myrcella home first (along with himself wanting to get home). Then Trystane only stays a while to pay respects to Myrcella before the ship sets sail. Meanwhile anybody who wants to travel to Dorne is boarding the ship, including two apparently Dornish women (Obara and Nymeria who departed Dorne by horse the moment Jaime and co. left by ship).
Well heck, this actually does finally make sense. Only… I still have a problem with all Dornish guards being loyal to Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Both in Doran’s palace and aboard Trystane’s ship. At least some should have reacted to the deaths of their rulers. Similar to Castle Black. And same as Thorne, Ellaria’s speech would stop them from any kind of revenge against her.
Either way, thanks. This brainstorming of ideas has finally lead to at least some satisfactory answers. I might even lik the episode on my next rewatch.
Yup, we understand each other. I was just hoping/expecting Sansa to snap out of that yoyoing already last season (after her Littlefinger practice) which didn’t happen, so that disappointed me.
I was mainly referring to her landing on her head. It even looked in ‘Mother’s Mercy’ that Myranda’s head no longer existed. But really, this is a no-matter.
Cock Merchant,
Just because she’s a girl, does not mean she cannot stab him through his armour. I am girl and I am in martial arts. I have done some Krav Maga training (I am no expert in it by any means as I do others) but anyone who is trained right can do that, especially when that person has their back to you.
And it seems the Sand Snakes are trained assassins.
I agree with most of your other thoughts though.
Oh, and regarding Dorne, Ellaria etc. I’m with Mark on this. In season 4, the show went to great lenghts to show Dorne as being different to the rest of Westeros, from our modern standpoint even more liberal, advanced.
I could write off Ellaria as going crazy from grief (the more that yes, she might have been unstable to begin with), but I have a problem with there not being anyone left ‘sensible’ in Dorne. Everybody barring the dead Doran and Trystane seems to back Ellaria and this image of a different Dorne is all but gone.
I just dont consider this good storytelling.
I thought the idea with Dorne is that many of the people with power have had a growing resentment for years that’s now been sparked into life by Ellaria. I thought the Sand Snakes were famous too, etc and many people would have more time for them than the thinker/passive Doran.
So when is this Winter coming anyway? There’s been talk of that since season 1! I hope they don’t wait with the Cold until the last part of the series. I want Freezing drama dammit =D!
Anyway, I don’t think this was a bad opener, but not an entirely satisfying one either.
* Great stuff: Wall and special mention of the RW “reveal” lol yeah, imp vs gimp banter (no cock eh?), WF (looks like meat’s back on the menu dogs!), Dragonlady almost getting up the … uhm… gutter :D.
* Ok stuff: Highsparrow saves the day, Arya getting whipped.
* Average stuff: Sansa drama, Lannister drama.
* Below average stuff: SS stuff (yawn).
Looking forward to: WINTER! Oh and Wall situation exploding, Dragons, and more intrigue please!
Well, winter has come to the north. Even after the thawing possibly achieved by Shireen burning, there’s still a lot of snow and ice around Winterfell. I’m pretty sure had we seen the Riverlands, the Vale or maybe even some parts of Lannister lands in the west, there would be some snow already as well. It’s just a matter of time before it gets to King’s Landing. I doubt we’ll see much snow in Dorne though.
Also let’s not forget the episode takes mostly place right after last season finale. There wasn’t even time for any sort of ‘winter’ to come since then.
The problem is – if DnD choose to go this way – that Dorne will become little more than foils for the Lannisters (with mostly barely clothed warrior Sand Snakes doing the fighting, if we go by what we’ve seen so far). That’s boring and so one-dimensional.
Prior to that, we’ve been lead to believe Dorne is a very rich and heterogenous culture that thrives thanks to its unique way of life. Now they’re the run of the mill kingdom that wants revenge for this or that … (Note: Oberyn, for one, wasn’t murdered. There wasn’t even any foul play against him.)
Yes I guess that’s true. But I think it’s even less likely for a girl with the build of Tyene to show such a feat of strength than it would be for someone stronger. Punching trough armor is hard, that’s why people use armor, and that’s also why fighters normally don’t even try to punch through it. Armor is there to protect you from that kind of stuff, and for the most part it does, even the light one Areo wears.
Strength simply matters in some fighting situations and trained people know that. As a women learning martial arts, you wouldn’t train to choke a guy out or shove him around. Of course it really hasn’t much to do with men or women in principle, but everyone can see that Tyene isn’t the Brienne type of girl. 😉
Anyway even a strong fighter wouldn’t try that if there was a better option, so I guess that she even tries is pretty comical, even more that she can do it so easily. A spear through the head from behind like we saw with Obara for example is a much better option (although with Trystane in that situation it wouldn’t have mattered).
But if we consider that most people wouldn’t think of what Areo wears as armor but rather as a costume, I guess it’s not quite “plot hole” territory.
Cock Merchant,
Krav Maga is a lot of knife training and hitting the pressure points that would disengage the opponent. That’ll definitely bring a man down
Anyway I didn’t think it was that farfetched, in my opinion.
She didn’t have a better option, she had to use a concealed weapon and not a spear.
I’d find it far more believable if Tyene hit Areo’s neck from behind. With her supposed skills, I suppose even with the small knife she could hit just right to severe his spinal chord. An instantaneous fatal injury that sure seems far fetched through armor on Areo’s back.
Seven hells! I actually found myself identifying with Red velvet at the end. This series is already making me crazy.
GRRM’s Yoren: “There’s a thousand leagues from here to the wall…”
D&D’s High Septon: “You have many miles yet to go…”
MILES? Really. Why not MPH if we’re doing the “modern American” thing…
It’s totally minor but little things like that are subtly ruining the show. Here’s hoping D&D don’t write any more S6 episodes…
SnowLives,
You have to be kidding me…..
This is ruining the show? Give me a break.
Martin uses miles and feats very often…
And it’s not like this is the first time we hear them say miles…. It’s there since S1..
And no, D&D will write more episodes, witch I’m beyond grateful, they won’t just stop because you don’t like miles…….
I think you may just be in the wrong place..
SnowLives,
The unit of a mile has been around since BC. The Romans used miles as units of distance. In Britain the mile has been in usage since the Middle Ages, at least, and therefore the use of miles is perfectly realistic for the kind of society/era depicted in Game of Thrones and is not “modern American” at all.
TOIVA,
Well, consider where you got that image of Dorne from. Oberyn.
Throughout this show the producers have been at pains to show how everybody, particularly nobility, believes that their societies are the most noble, advanced, fair, rational… which doesn’t necessarily reflect reality.
Just think of how Hizdahr zo Loraq described Meereen. You’d think it was the most advanced and just society on the planet, based on his point of view.
A fairer assessment of Dorne might be found in the words of a neutral, Bronn:
“You ever been to Dorne? Well I have. The Dornish are crazy. All they want to do is fight and fuck, fuck and fight.”
Or perhaps Cersei’s retort to Oberyn’s romantic image of Dorne:
Oberyn; “We don’t hurt little girls in Dorne.”
Cersei: “Everywhere in the world, they hurt little girls.”
Perhaps you should consider whether the image of Dorne that you think is being undermined was ever a fair representation to begin with?
SnowLives,
miles is as accurate as leagues for the times .
My thoughts on the Dorne scenes. Hotah would have NEVER, EVER went down like that. He was too careful, too intuitive, too strong. Book Hotah would have cut both of their heads off…even if he did so with his dying breath.
T2,
Book hotah is not show hotah, unfortunately for you.
Those are very good points and you’re entirely correct. (I’d even add that I might have been also influenced by one article long ago on Wicnet – maybe written by Sue, not that I blame her – prior to Dorne appearing onscreen. It was basically a description – as non-spoilery as possible – of how great and different Dorne was to the rest of Westeros.)
But I’m of the opinion that it’d be much more interesting to bring differences to the show. In this case, at least partially acknowledgeing Oberyn’s view (mind you he was a learned man, he’s traveled a lot, he would thus be far better at judging Dorne’s culture than a run of the mill lord or lady from Westeros or Essos).
Unfortunately, the more we see of Dorne, the more it looks like drier and hotter King’s Landing.
You need to read the books again, “mile(s)” is used time and again by characters in the books just as “leagues” are.
E.g by Jon to Tyrion in Tyrion’s 3rd chapter GoT: “I have a mile of Wall to guard, will you walk with me?”
An entirely erroneous complaint.
PS sorry for the books reference, but, REALLY!
Pau,
Pau – I’m a man. ;0). I agree with your assessment. But Mel has always done whatever she must (burning a child at the stake!) for what she sees as the greater good. If that greater good is sacrificing herself to bring back the savior to stop evil (white walkers) than maybe…?
But you’re probably right. An age revelation and vulnerable character development is most likely where this begins and ends.
True there is winter in the north, but not like it was so ominously described by that old woman by the bedside in s1. Anyway, I could be wrong but I had a different impression of that sort of winter, like that it would remain dark throughout the day and stuff.
Maester TT,
As I said, it’s definitely only a matter of time. Remember that Stannis’ doomed attack on Winterfell was to happen before true winter arrives. Because when winter really starts, it’s almost impossible to move armies.
I’m still looking forward to Ice spiders as big as hounds roaming through the countryside. 🙂
Exactly, that sort of stuff :-).