In the Game of Thrones Season Seven finale, the Stark and Targaryen coalition leaders made their plans for transplanting the Targaryen troops from the middle of Westeros to where they’re most needed: the North. What followed was some very specific logistical dialogue:
Jon: If we have the Dothraki ride hard on the Kingsroad, they’ll arrive at Winterfell within the fortnight.
Daenerys: And the Unsullied?
Jon: We can sail with them to White Harbor, meet the Dothraki here on the Kingsroad, and ride together to Winterfell.
Ser Jorah Mormont suggested that the queen fly to Winterfell on her dragon, to avoid any shenanigans along the way. (I’m willing to assume that Jorah was being straightforward and worried more about vengeful northerners with crossbows than one particular King in the North on a boat with his Khaleesi.)
I found this a refreshing conversation, largely because the show had been rather light in logistics discussion, with troops and fleets inexplicably appearing where they needed to be to advance the required plot situation without necessarily laying the groundwork.
The point of the scene was probably just to establish Dany and Jon having berths on the same dragon-prowed galleon, for reasons, but I was more interested in hearing the details on troop movements. And all the implications that entailed.
Daenerys was sending her mounted warriors, the fearsome Dothraki, up the road through the North to Winterfell. Presumably Jon would be sending ravens to important locations, such as Moat Cailin and Winterfell, letting them know that the horselords were allies. Presumably the Dothraki could be trusted to follow a road despite not being familiar with Westeros; but I’m fairly certain that Daenerys would be sending along a trusted emissary who could not only communicate with the Dothraki in their language, but was also familiar with the lay of the land and the customs of the North.
That emissary would likely be Ser Jorah Mormont.
Ser Jorah is from the North, from Bear Island in particular, and he’s fluent in Dothraki. When traveling with Khal Drogo’s khalasar, Jorah the Andal was respected among that host. He certainly has the skills and background to function as Dany’s emissary, ushering the Dothraki into the North and respecting/enforcing any safe-conducts.
Unfortunately, Jorah is probably far more respected among the Dothraki than he is among his own people. To the average northerner, Ser Jorah is a law-breaking exile. The fact that he’s come back to Westeros serving the daughter of the Mad King and leading an army of essentially wildlings on horses will probably not sit well with the people of the North.
Jorah has a lot of factors that already can set him apart from his fellow countrymen. Bear Island is unconnected from the main North (because… island) and if Lady Lyanna Mormont’s attitude that one Bear Islander is worth ten mainlanders, if that’s a known bias among the folk of Bear Island, then it’s probably true that the rest of the North probably consider Bear Islanders a bit … smug?
Ser Jorah is a war hero in his way. King Robert Baratheon knighted him for his conspicuous bravery and martial prowess during the siege of Pyke.
Thoros of Myr: Allegedly, I was awesome in that fight as well. Or so I’ve been told. Blackout drunk, you know.
But, knights are rather uncommon in the North, since it’s an Andal thing more than a First Man thing. Ser Jorah probably was respected for his distinction, but I assume there was a certain feeling that perhaps Jeor Mormont’s son was putting on southern airs.
Jorah even married a southern woman, a Hightower lady from the Reach. Now, there’s nothing wrong with marriages going outside the geographic region. After all, Rickard Stark had planned on marrying a son to a Riverlands girl and a daughter to a southerner from the Stormlands. But I assume some northern folk were wondering if the lord of Bear Island thought he was too good for their daughters.
Shortly after his marriage, Jorah fell on tough financial times while trying to satisfy his lady wife with expensive southern entertainments, and he sold some poachers into slavery in an attempt to pay the bills. The word got out, as it does, and Ser Jorah had to flee into exile or risk losing his head to Ned Stark’s judgment (and sword.) Once you’re on Ned Stark’s naughty list, it’s hard to get your name off.
So Jorah’s return to the North should elicit some well-deserved harsh words from his countrymen.
Lady Lyanna Mormont: Trust me when I say that I’ve got some things planned to say to my kinsman.
Although Jorah might not be able to avoid caustic comments from Lady Mormont, at least he doesn’t have any secrets for Three Eyed Raven Bran Stark to reveal. Littlefinger discovered how dangerous Bran’s supernatural abilities can be.
Ser Jorah: I can honestly say that I’ve never pushed that boy out of a window.
Ser Jaime: Well, now you’re bragging.
In fact, since Bran and Sam Tarly have been companionably comparing notes, it’s possible that Jorah might get a warmer than expected reception from Bran, by his association with Sam the Slayer.
Sam saved Jorah from the dreaded disease greyscale, largely to honor Sam’s service with Jorah’s father. A bond was formed between Sam and Jorah through the arduous ordeal of the greyscale procedure, and the two men left on good terms of mutual respect. But we shouldn’t consider this a sure thing. Jorah’s beloved queen roasted Sam’s father and younger brother on the Rose Road. Randyll Tarly was an awful father, but it’s unclear how Sam might feel about this.
It’s not a given if Jorah is even interested in trying to make amends or redeem himself in the eyes of the North, even if he could. It’s not like Jorah can unenslave the men he sold.
In truth, Jorah appears to have made peace with himself in regards to a clean break from the land of his birth. He turned down his original pardon from Robert Baratheon, and opted not to pursue the re-issue of the same pardon from Tywin Lannister. When far adventuring north beyond-the-Wall, Jon Snow offered to Jorah the ancestral blade of the Mormonts, Longclaw.
Jorah refused, essentially severing ties to his northern lineage. As far as Jorah is concerned, the North is entirely in his past and his future is inextricably bound to Daenerys Targaryen. (Which tracks with his refusal to respect her royal restraining orders for several seasons.)
But there still is an option for Ser Jorah to wash himself clean of any harbored resentment among his countrymen.
We can debate if there will be a Night’s Watch, or even a need for a Night’s Watch when the series concludes, but it seems entirely appropriate that Jorah evetually take the black. By selling men into slavery he deserved to be executed, so the Wall would be a lenient sentence. His father served with distinction, and Jorah spoke highly of his father’s service and respect for the institution.
Jeor Mormont wanted Jorah to take the black.
By abandoning the North, refusing Longclaw, and giving up his lordship of Bear Island, Jorah is already well suited for the “hold no lands” part of the Night’s Watch oath. He can’t harbor any illusions of a life with Daenerys Targaryen (especially with Jon Snow in the picture) and what woman could compare to the Mother of Dragons? It seems that the oath’s “take no wives, father no sons” clause is also covered.
By taking the black, Jorah’s crimes in the North would be forgiven (whether he cared about that or not) and he could settle down and live out a purpose-filled life, after years of wandering in exile over the mistakes of his youth.
And we already know, thanks to the Season Seven costume designer, that Jorah looks good in black.
After helping to end the Long Night, serving alongside Jon Snow, and taking the black, maybe even the ghost of Lord Eddard Stark could forgive Ser Jorah Mormont. Not that it matters to Jorah. There’s only one person whose opinion matters to him.
Anything else would be gravy.
Hot Pie: YOU CANNOT GIVE UP ON THE GRAVY!
Taking the black would imply a need for the Wall. Does this mean you support the Jon Snow Lich King theory?
To be honest, I have no idea why Jorah is still in the narrative. That scene where Dany tells him farewell would have been perfect to get him out of it.
Couple of quibbles. Jorah tried the arranged marriage thing to a Glover woman and she died before she could produce kids. Jorah actually fell in love with Lynesse and married her for love.
Also, he wants to go home. It is known, from the books and the show. Dany knows it too. She even says (books) that she knows she can’t give him what he wants physically, but she will give him his Bear Island.
Now, on to the story:
I think one of Jon’s first acts as Warden of the North is to pardon Jorah. (No way he’s going to let his new boo’s most trusted advisor be under a death sentence)
Jorah will be the bridge. He may be a lawbreaker, but he is of the North. The Blood of the First Men flows through his veins and he is still one of the best fighters in the country.
He has fought for Jon and Dany both. He owes a life debt to Sam. Sam and Jon (and Edd, for what it’s worth) are not going to let the son of Jeor Mormont get cast aside.
Jorah is a better tactical mind than Tyrion. I think he’d step aside for Lyanna. He’d actually make a great consort to a certain redheaded Lady of Winterfell.
Get’er done! Joransa forever!
I wonder what was the point of Jorah’s greyscale. (In the books it’s quite another character – not appearing in the show – who contracts greyscale and there’s speculation that there will be a greyscale epidemic.)
Was it a nod to book readers and a way to bring Jorah and Sam together so that there’s that “bridge” between Jon/Sam and Dany/Jorah? But Jon and Dany seem to get along just fine without Jorah’s or Sam’s help. Indeed, Dany’s treatment of the Tarlys might cause some problems with Sam/Jon. In a previous thread Inga raised the interesting idea that Dany might have problems with the Jon=Aegon Targaryen reveal partly because the info comes from Jon’s weird tree brother and Jon’s best friend, who has good reason to resent Dany (or so Dany thinks). Maybe this is where Jorah comes in, as someone who can vouch for Sam? But would Jorah be OK with Jon claiming the throne from right under Dany’s nose? (I’m envisioning this taking place – if it takes place – fairly early so the claim is more theoretical than real.)
I don’t know, but it’s fun to explore different ideas. Thanks for the article. I love show!Jorah (he’s creepier in the books) and love the idea of him leading the Dothraki all through half of Westeros to the North – who else could do it? – and finally redeeming himself by taking the black. It was Jeor Mormont’s dying wish in the books. (Assuming there is a Night’s Watch after all is said and done.)
Thanks for the final comment from Hot Pie, made me laugh!
About the lordship of Bear Island. IIRC, Dany promised Jorah “home”, presumably meaning the lordship, should it be in her power to grant it. Now it is, she’s the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, Jon bent the knee (though her claim is not universally recognized, krhm, Cersei…)
But it’s not as straighforward as that. The Bear Island lordship is not vacant, a certain Lady Lyanna Mormont now holds it. Jorah was stripped of his lands and titles (apparently by Ned as the Warden of the North) for a real crime, he sold slaves. He wasn’t attainted for being a Targaryen loyalist (if he fought in Robert’s Rebellion, he would’ve been on the Stark = rebel side) so his restoration cannot hinge on that. Dany swooping in and taking the lands and titles away from one of Jon’s most loyal northern bannermen – who’s innocent of any crime unless refusing to do fealthy to the Iron Throne held by Cersei counts – to reward her friend and advisor, a known criminal, is not a good look. I don’t think Jon would be happy about demoting Lyanna Mormont in favour of Jorah. Jorah taking the black resolves this dilemma. (If there IS a NW in the end.)
Of course it’s possible that Lyanna Mormont will have a fit and abandon Jon when she hears he bent the knee. She basically made the King in the North and now he gave it away for some pretty southron/foreign queen, a Targaryen no less! (Just wait till she and the other northern lords hear Jon’s also a Targ!)
Basically, Jorah has no right to Bear Island, he forfeited it by committing one of the worst crimes in Westeros. Even if his crime is pardoned, it’d be wrong to retroactively take Bear Island away from the ruling family, who have done no wrong, and give it back to Jorah.
Genealogical note: Jeor Mormont was Lord of Bear Island until he joined the NW so that his son Jorah could become the lord. After Jorah’s attaintment, the lordship passed to Jeor’s sister Maege. Lyanna is Maege’s daughter. (Maege died in the Red Wedding.)
This was really excellent! I agree; Jorah would be a good choice for (999th?) Lord Commander. Makes a lot more sense than marrying him off to a kid less than 1/3 his age (lookin’ at YOU, Sansa) who isn’t even blonde.
Some men are fated to never get the girl (lookin’ at YOU, Hound).
Re: going “home” – I always interpreted home to mean Westeros. Not the lordship of Bear Island. Jorah isn’t delusional.
Who said anything about making him Lord? He just wants to go home. To be able to walk around freely.
There is no way Jon continues that sentence as Warden and even if he wanted to, there is no way Dany lets him. The sentence is gone. There is no sentence. The Northern Lords can just get the fuck over it twice. If they don’t like it, they can go fight for Cersei. Fuck them. Cowardly little twerps. (Other than Lyanna)
I don’t think Lyanna should step aside and I don’t think Jorah would want her to. If he survives this and Dany ends up ruling, he’s staying in King’s Landing as Lord Commander of her Queen’s Guar.
Really just popping in here to say that Ser Jorah Mormont the Andal of Bear Island is the greatest character GOT has ever seen and we all know it. The great Iain Glen has served us well.
WorfWWorfington,
I like the idea that Jorah would become the new Lord Commander, but I have to agree with WorfWWorfington. IF he survives the Long Night, and I think that’s a big if, then he’ll stay in KL on Dany’s Queens Guard. Also will obviously only happen if Dany survives too, but I don’t think Dany could possibly die without Jorah dying first to protect her.
So you’re assuming Edd is dead? 🙁
OK, Jon left Edd in charge, as acting LC (like Alliser Thorne was in S4), so maybe he hasn’t been chosen as the actual LC. (The Black Brothers could’ve chosen him off-screen, we didn’t exactly get to see much of the NW in S7.)
There’s a delicious/dolorous bit in the books, which I’d like to think forshadows Edd becoming the actual LC of the NW. In the books,
So, I’m not sure Jorah can just waltz in and become the LC because his dad was the legendary LC Jeor Mormont. Remember uncle Benjen to Jon: here every man gets what he earns. Names don’t mean a thing. (I think Benjen was being a bit disingenous, I’m sure his STARK name helped him rise through the ranks and become First Ranger, but whatever.)
Anyway, the Night’s Watch that Edd commands is apparently about 50 men huddled down in Castle Black, maybe some men at the Shadow Tower out west. Tormund and his wildlings hold Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
The war will be chaos, no time for choosing LCs or even swearing NW vows. Who knows if the NW will even be a thing after it’s all over.
Sorry for a long, incoherent post. Just spitballing here.
David Rosenblatt,
I wouldn’t go as far as saying Jorah the Andal is the greatest character in the series but I wholeheartedly agree that Iain Glen is one of the absolutely best. He made me love Jorah, whereas I only mildly liked book!Jorah.
Oof. It’s almost unfair to Kit to be in the same photo as Iain. Gorgeous man…
I thought for sure he’d be done in Season 5, yet here he stands. The fact that my 3 favourite male characters have made it this far is quite something.
I wish poachers nowadays were sold into slavery.
About that “logistical dialogue” scene: after Dany agreed to sail together with Jon to White Harbor, Jon immediately approached Davos and whispered to his ear:
“You saved some of that fermented crab, didn’t you?”
That part of the scene got cut. It is known.
You certainly didn’t, and I’m sorry if you think I implied you did. I was just examining the situation in a general way, sparked by your comment. However, there seems to be this general idea floating around that Jorah should get back his home, Bear Island, i.e. the lordship. That’s what I was responding to. Sorry to have dragged your good name into it.
Would Jorah want to live at home on Bear Island as the ruling lady’s cousin and bannerman? Or would he rather live where Dany is? Provided they both survive… aah, what would Jorah do if Dany dies and he survives? Maybe retire to Bear Island and look after a modest keep for his cousin? We tend to think of him as a Dany side-kick but he is a man/character in his own right, especially now that they’re back in Westeros and heading north. Looking forward to what S8 brings for him.
Shame on you, Patrick Sponaugle. Now I’ll go with your presented option of Jorah leading (helping, lessening chance of misunderstandings) Dothraki on their Westerosi journey and will be so disappointed when he shows up next season on the same boat as Aejon and Daenerys. The show will most likely handwave away any difficulty in moving foreign hordes across the continent (like is handles most transportation nowadays).
I gotta say that both the best and worst experience at the same time is now speculating (well, reading speculation) on this fine site. It’s exhilirating to see all the very thought out options for almost any character in the show. The endless possibilities of potentially wondrous meetings and dialogues between various characters. BUT, 98% of all those exciting possibilities simply won’t fit in the remaining 6 episodes. So there will just be so much disappointment at “roads not taken”.
(Obviously that first sentence was meant as tongue-in-cheek, I love these articles. Keep them up, Patrick.)
I see what you did there. 😉
House Mormont words were utilised to great effect in S1 when Jorah confronted Viserys. “Yet, here I stand.” [palpitations] I still swoon every time I rewatch that scene.
talvikorppi,
Not to keep it up… but “who said anything about staying home?”
He just wants to visit. And walk around freely. And not hide from his fellow Northeners. And be a great uncle to his descendants.
My predictions for Jorah are
1) Dead
2) Or… Lord Commander of the Queen’s Guard
3) Or… Lord of … (Pick Your Castle) — Harrenhall, Highgarden, the Dreadfort, etc…
4) Or… Lord of Winterfell, by rights of his marriage to Lady Sansa Stark
5) Or… Lord of the Karhold, by rights of his marriage to Alys Karstark
6) Or… Lord of Evenfall, by rights of his marriage to Brienne of Tarth
OR… the Queen Consort, after the tragic death of Jon Snowgaryen beyond the Wall. A heartbroken Queen Danerys looks up and realizes that the true love of her life was right there all along.
And then when Ser Davos turns her down, she settles on Jorah.
LOL, thanks!
I almost included a passage in my article that was basically this: “I’ll look pretty dumb when Jorah disembarks with Jon and Dany, and the Dothraki somehow made their way to Winterfell on their best behavior…”
I’m pleased you liked the article, and thank you for your kind words!
Ser Who-Gives-A-Sh*t,
Jon doesn’t need the fermented crab …..he is 22 years old and in love……i am sure he is working well! Lol
I don’t necessarily support any theory, but I won’t argue against it. (But actually, Bran Stark will become the Witch-King in the North, and command a vigilant army of the dead against the return of any other necromancer from the north. GET HYPE!)
Yeah, my idea for Jorah to become the 1000th (or whatever) Night’s Watch commander is predicated on the belief that either the Night King is not ultimately defeated, or for simple prudence’s sake, someone needs to repair and man that Wall, just in case.
I guess Jorah will serve some part of the story to come, I mean, he’s about as expendable as anyone else. His presence on Team Dany has this interesting dynamic (in my opinion) that he’s the go-to Dothraki delegate and the guy with northern know-how.
Thanks for the reminder that the southern lady was Jorah’s second wife.
Robett Glover: Harrumph. This is how he honors the memory of his wife?
As for Jorah wanting to go home (I saw that this was chatted about in other comments, I won’t bring up anything about lordship of Bear Island) – I don’t know if I’ll say you’re wrong, but you’re quoting things that Dany has intuited, but has Jorah really proclaimed on the show or the books that he’s driven to return to the North? I mean, I don’t think that’s wrong, but it doesn’t rule out Jorah prioritizing service to Dany over redeeming himself in the eyes of the North, which is more what I said.
And I think Jorah refusing to take back Longclaw is a symbolic recognition that Jorah, in his heart, has chosen a form of exile.
I appreciate this discussion, I think your viewpoint is valid, even if I see things differently. Since Jorah isn’t a point-of-view character, he’s fair game for speculation of intent and motivation. (It’s one of the reasons I like him so much, like many of the secondary characters.)
Thanks for the feedback, I think you’re suggestion of Jon pardoning Jorah, a good honest Northern pardon from a Northern king, is a distinct possibility. I still want Jorah to serve at the Wall though.
In my opinion, the greyscale (other than to give Tyrion a piece of his missing Connington storyline) was just to get Jorah and Sam together. I think there’s some kind of harmony for these two disgraced sons to meet up. It’ll make me happy if Sam loans Jorah Heartsbane for some action.
I’m glad you liked Hot Pie rounding out the article. (I’m bad at ending articles.) Thanks for the comment!
#SendJorahToTheWall
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it.
It would be ungentlemanly of me to argue against your assertion! (I do love me that Jorah.)
What you’re saying is very likely to happen, I don’t really have a compelling argument otherwise. Other than I like the idea of Jorah fulfilling his dad’s wishes. Jorah joining the Night’s Watch, to me, is like a mirror image of Jaime joining the King’s Guard. Jaime thought Cersei would be at court, so he wanted to join the Kingsguard so he could be near his love, and not forced to obey his father and be stuck as a lordling at Casterly Rock. In contrast, I think it would pain Jorah to be near Dany (I know there is no evidence for this in the show, but I’m on a role with my bad analogy – and love makes people do odd things at times) and instead would remove himself from the narrative to serve at the Wall as his father wanted.
Eventually, we’ll know the answer.
talvikorppi,
That was a great comment, not incoherent at all!
I don’t think Jorah would be able to come in and claim the office, no. But I could see this happening.
Jorah: Hey, I’m here to serve my time. I’m Jeor Mormont’s son, but I know I’ll have to earn my place.
Edd: Cool. Hey, wear this cloak for a minute.
Jorah: Okay.
Edd: I changed the bylaws so that anyone who wears the cloak willingly has to be the Lord Commander, thanks.
Jorah: What?
Edd: NO ONE ELSE WANTED THE JOB! I DIDN’T WANT IT!
I am going to delete my Jorah article. Your timeline is the best timeline.
Ser Davos: I’m flattered, Queen Daenerys, really I am. But I do have a wife that I never talk about.
Dany: Fine. Jorah!
Jorah: Yes, Khaleesi?
Dany: You’re up.
Now THAT’S the Dolorous Edd I’ve been missing! 😉
🙂
Haha I am of course being purposefully hyperbolic…BUT he is indeed my favorite character on the show – I’m sure my Avatar has not gone unnoticed. Very happy with Patrick’s writeup! 🙂
Meh honestly Jorah’s ending could go in any direction. He’s not a main character, so D&D can do whatever they want with him. If he dies, I hope he’s given a proper and heroic send-off. If he lives, I hope he finds a sense of purpose.
In the books I’ve been partial to Jorah becoming the new LC of a rebuilt Wall (and no, Jon doesn’t have to become an undead ice demon for that to happen). Don’t forget there are still orcs….err…whitewalker babies in their whitewalker cribs there. Will Aragorn kill them too?
Jaehaerys,
Jorah can’t save her from dying in childbirth, a death which some fans, myself included, suspect could be her fate.
There isn’t going to be a Night’s Watch at the end of the story so Jorah can chill out as the commander of the Queen’s Guard if he survives the upcoming wars.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on if there will be a Night’s Watch, or equivalent after the Long Night passes.
Jorah should be staunch supporter of Jon’s claim, as it suddenly leaves Daenerys free to follow his ( Jorah’s ) heart’s desires. Unless Jon is ok with bedding his own aunt. A Targ on the Throne, and one with Starkish ( Nedish ) upbringing means no need to worry about assassins going after her again. Poor Jorah never even dreamed of such happy ending. Which only strengthens my believe that those three can’t be all alive at the end – bitterness is coming.
Flayed Potatoes,
The White Walker babies will die the second the Night King does, evidently. There won’t be any White Walkers at the end of this, most likely, and thus no Night’s Watch.
Plus, the Night’s Watch was a total failure at its stated mission, so I don’t see what the point of reforming it would be.
They did a really great job deflating Dany and Jorah’s arc, one of the more epic relationships of the show. Was cheap of them to give him greyscale only to have him be cured, after that epic goodbye with Dany in S6 (one of my favorite moments of the season). I love how he just comes back after being cured in S7 and him and Dany are like hi! bye! Well, that was the end of 6 whole seasons worth of carefully thought out character building.
Like many others, I can’t see the need for the Night’s Watch if the NK and his army are destroyed. In that case, it won’t exist but even if it does, I don’t see Jorah choosing that miserable life. He would remain as Commander of the Queensguard with Dany should she rule in the end.
If Dany doesn’t survive, he’s likely to stay with Jon. If Jon dies, then I’ve no idea lol
Love Iain Glenn who’s made me really root for the character. If Jorah survives at the end, it would be satisfying to see him find some sort of happiness. I know there’s a big age gap, but he gets to meet Sansa soon. She might be happy with a handsome and loyal father figure guy. Those two characters have spent the entire series waiting to be loved lol.
I don’t if we have any evidence at all that killing the Night King would kill White Walkers, since they’re not wights. It’s a reasonable assumption, but it’s not a given.
As for the Night’s Watch failing at its mission… that’s somewhat a harsh assessment. Certainly the realm has not been doing its part in supporting and maintaining the Watch. And this mission has lasted for 8000 years. If we look at it from a cyber security point of view, cyber defenses have to work 100% of the time, hackers only need to find one hole. One doesn’t cut the cyber security budget after a successful hack, and say that it’s not worth the time to fix the situation.
Ser Jorah …sigh… is one of my most favourite characters! Thank you for this lovely piece Patrick!
I suspect that the NK threat will not be totally eliminated – as it wasn’t at the Long Night in the past. So, the need for the Night Watch and the Wall will be as important as before.
I can, then, easily imagine Ser Jorah taking the black (he does look AMAZING in black!) if he survives the war. He’s one of those that would give their life for Dany and I worry about his future.
And of course I would love to see him alive in the end, Jon giving him a pardon and him working as an advisor for our little Lady Mormont, or for Dany/Jon.
But, I somehow would prefer to see him being Lord commander at the Wall, like his father. It would have a nice symmetry with his family’s and personal arc.
Whatever happens to his character Iain has nailed it. Excellent actor (and fine looking too)!
Patrick Sponaugle,
Exactly. Don’t forget that after Bran was touched by the NK to break the cave’s magic, we all assumed the Wall would fall down because of the same reason. Only for D&D to decide to go in a different direction.
Patrick Sponaugle,
Beric flatly states that killing the Night King will kill everyone that he turned, which would include the White Walkers (otherwise all the wights raised by the other White Walkers would still be around, so killing the Night King wouldn’t achieve much). Now, this isn’t strictly confirmed, but the show seems to be signalling that that’s true.
The Night’s Watch’s mission was to defend the realm against the White Walkers. The only time it was asked to do that, it failed, and indeed, forgot what its mission even was.
You are very welcome, I’m glad you liked it!
I think there’s definitely a relationship between White Walkers and the wights that they have raised via necromancy. I’m not willing to interpret Beric’s assumption beyond that with any certainty.
In regards to the Night’s Watch, it needs to be reformed so its mission isn’t as easily forgotten, in case the next Long Night doesn’t come again for thousands of years.
Jorahs hearts desire, as he states in the letter he wrote I Dany when he thought he would die, is “to live to see the world she builds”. Jorah will, IMO, Jorah will definitely live. As long as Dany is alive he will be by her side or out on her command faithfully serving.
If Dany dies (which i think she will) Jorah will either Serve Danys child, return to Bear Island and retire, or take the Black. In any case, he wI’ll live to see the world she built.
talvikorppi,
Just realized the parallel here with Rob and Talsia (sp). He also fell in love with a foriegner (not queen tho) and look what happened there…the North Remembers – will they be esp put out because they remember the consequences of that action?
talvikorppi,
Hee, I forgot about Edd and the election in the book, tho I probably skipped past that.!
TOIVA,
True, but what then would we all do during this long winter?
Ser Who-Gives-A-Sh*t,
“You saved some of that fermented crab, didn’t you
You owe me a new keyboard sir! (I probably should be drinking anyway when I read this board 🙂
Thanks for this article, Patrick!
I’m not a fan of Jorah in the books, but I am a BIG fan of show!Jorah because of the delectable Iain Glen. I’m sure that’s why D&D have kept him around as well. He’s just so great! That velvet voice and those expressive eyes! Not only does he look good in black (which he could certainly wear as the LC of Dany’s Queensguard–Targ black and red), but he looks yummy in furs with the cold wind in his hair as well. I want him to survive to the bitter(sweet) end.
I had to comment on this line of reasoning that Jorah needs punishment for his past crimes. Was he not punished enough by being exiled and lost everything he had? It’s that same attitude that hurts my brother today even though his crime was over a decade ago and went to prison etc but there are still people that believe he needs to be punished for the rest of his life. I guess you’d be one of those people.
I’m glad you liked it, thank you for the comment.
You have guessed wrong.
Patrick Sponaugle,
Sorry to be late to the party, but I have to disagree on almost everything. Sorry again, nothing personal, I liked the article, and it’s not bullshit, BUT…
I’ll start from the end, namely, from the NW. IMO, even if some threat continues to linger on even after the war, the defense of the frontier should be given to normal men with cock-related values, namely wives and children and lands and and crowns, and not to all sorts of human waste like bastards, criminals, political opponents and unrequitted lovers. However, I hope that the NK will be destroyed for good and all, because otherwise we will inevitably get some lazy-written sequel about a new WW attack (and then the third one and so on).
So, if Jorah survives the war, the best solution would be to send him back to Bear Island: Lyanna deserves getting some life after all she has been through, and Jorah needs a new girl to look after. But I don’t think that Jorah will survive: both he and Davos are those faithfult guardians who look after the main charachers through their figurative adolescence, but once Dany and Jon finish their archs of killing a child and letting an adult be born, those faithfult guardians will have to go which make them very likely casualties of the comming war.
As for Jorah’s immediate actions, it would be reasonable for Dany to send him along with the Dothraki, but that may be unreasonable plotwise. It’s pretty clear that Winterfell is going under siege, but the Dothraki are not build to stand the siege – they are build to come out of nowhere and lift it. Therefore, the polt requres them to stay behind, but, if Jorah goes with them, the delay might be hard to sell to the viewers. Moreover, as I have written in another thread, Jorah will be required at WF to vouch for Sam, when he reveals Jon’s true status (otherwise Dany will have every single reason to take it as a ruse).
On the other hand, the showrunners may choose to maintain the conflict within WF throughout the siege, so Jorah traveling with the Dothraki would still fit the scheme (my preference would be Jaime running into the hesitant Dothraki in the Riverlands and shaming them as cowards to raly them to the cause but he can do that together with Jorah, I guess).
One way or another Jorah still has a role to play and I think that role will be realted primarily to Jon’s true status revellation. And there is no need for manifacturing a conflict between Jorah and the North based on his past sins: Jorah has already got Jon’s pardon (he even offered him Longclaw) and his reputation has already been reestablished, when he went beyond the Wall.
LOL, I can’t take that personally. I appreciate your candor and your disagreements.
He is a good person, he love khalisi and devoted himself for her.
in case if you are missing game of thrones here are few shows which are better then Game Of Thrones.
So, many of you think that unless Jorah be matched to a pretty lady a fraction of his age, there is no possible life worth living for him, and he might as well be consigned to what’s left of the NW or serve as overseer to little Lyanna’s life? Harumph.
With all the warfare throughout Westeros, there is no shortage of widows, spirited, lively, age-appropriate widows, who might be very happy with a velvet-voiced man with some interesting stories to tell, even if he is a bit scarred up. Rumor has it that women over 40 actually still might harbor a sexual thought or two. I’m not saying what I know about that subject, just ruminating. If the writers so wished, they could create a female we, and Jorah, like immediately and deem acceptable; they made us love Karsi in ten minutes flat.
I liked Patrick’s idea of Jorah being the emissary and peace-keeper of the traveling Dothraki horde. Yet, I rather agree with the post I read
that says with the few episodes left, the writers will probably skip over what would otherwise be a very entertaining side trip. Last season was woefully short in places of the necessary connective tissue that keeps bodies and story-lines from sagging and wobbling. I doubt Season 8 is going to get any collagen injections. We’ll just have to go with what they show us.
But, I think we are missing one very important service that Jorah will likely perform. Cersei is so excited about her Golden Company. She’s sure that’s her route to victory. What has been forgotten is that Jorah was with the Golden Company before he went to work for Viserys. I came across that fact in watching a video from Emergency Awesome on YouTube. He supplies footage from an episode where the Golden Company comes up in a conversation between Jorah and Dany, and she says “you were in the Golden Company, weren’t you?” Sorry I can’t connect you with the video, it’s 4 am where I am, and I must try sleeping again, shortly. It’s there, though, and when I heard it I was jumping up and down. What’s to stop Jorah from sending a message to his old buddies, totally messing up Cersei’s plans?
Whatever Jorah’s ultimate purpose is, I’m with the majority of you who love Iain Glen’s portrayal, and are happy to see him doing anything at all.
Those were Dario’s words, too. I hope we get one more glimpse of him, but with the relationship she now has with Jon, that could get awkward. I, too, hope and think Jorah will make it to the end. Thank the gods he’ll be making the trip in new clothes and not that disgusting yellow shirt. We had to wait 7 seasons to see how good he looks in other clothes. Sorry, I just really hated that shirt.
Thronetender,
I imagine Daario coming out of nowhere in the last episode and stabbing Dany for what she did to him – or at least trying to (I hope that someone will interfere).
Thronetender,
Good point about Jorah’s ties to the Golden Company: indeed, he will be in the position to talk them into annulling their contract with Cersei. And Davos will be in a similar position regarding the Iron Bank. So, my guess is that after all the conflicts in and around WF are settled and Cersei’s treason is revealed Jorah will go to the Golden Company and Davos will go to Braavos to cut support to Cersei.
I just wonder about how her treason will be revealed. IMO Jaime will keep his mouth shut and try to keep Cersei’s vow for her hoping that eventually she will join them. He may not love her anymore, but he won’t put his unborn baby at risk. However, Jaime’s own good intents may come under question this way. Add the fact that he tried to kill Bran and Team Targarian-Stark united will have every reason for his execution. So, the best way for Jaime would be to die fighting the dead in the arms of Brienne, but who knows…
“What she did to him?”
You mean breaking up with him? Huh? It would be massively out of character for Daario to turn murderous just due to being dumped. She didn’t even break any promises to him, their relationship was really casual.
I could see him turning cloak and going back to being a merc but actively trying to kill her would be absurd. He’s a big boy. He can handle a broken heart.
Everyone is expecting Jamie to show up north with an army. If he shows up to Winterfell without one the question will be called. He’ll have to tell that Cersei is planning to betray them and that’s why no army. Also I am 99% sure that Cersei has already sent the message to everywhere she controls that Jaime should be killed on sight for treason so it’s not going to be a secret to anyone. If she doesn’t make Jaime’s treason known, then she risks the Lannister army following him north since they will otherwise assume Jaime and Cersei still speak with one voice.
QueenofThrones,
In case of Daario, it’s not the case of a broken heart but rather of a hurt ambition. His affair with Dany has always been a power game: he wanted to ride a dragon. He could handle the fact that the dragon dropped him, he could handle Dany’s marriage to some parfumed aristocract he could despise, but learning that she has happily fallen in love with a certain northern bastard might be too much. Jon is too close to someone Daario could and maybe even wanted to be, so I wouldn’t be surprised, if Daario went mad, though I can also imagine the showrunners dropping him entirely.
As for Jaime, IMO Cersei is in a tricky situation. “No-one walks away from me,” that’s what she declared, and now acknowledging that Jaime actually did and she failed to kill him the moment he turned his back on her would seriously undermine her authority. Therefore I wouldn’t be surprised if she kept everithing in secret and looked for ways to get Jaime back. I can even see her telling herself that it’s a smart move, that providing support to the North will give a better coverage for her plans involving the Golden Company, etc. Cersei is a master of self-deception and she can find a reason for anything.
As for Jaime, he is going north as a private person, presumably under a fake name. His disguise will be revealed at some point, but in general his story may go several ways. He may summon the Lannister troops in the Riverlands and march them north pretending that he is doing that under Cersei’s command, or he may arrive to Winterfell alone hoping to pass unnoticed among all other men. It’s hard to predict and I’m really looking forwards to see how it is going to play.
I hope this happens but I don’t think it will. I’m hoping he frees Edmure as well.
Any disguise seems unlikely to last beyond his arrival to Winterfell. He would know that he’ll be instantly recognized by Brienne, at least, and she’ll be anticipating his arrival. Not to mention the other hundreds of northerners and northern allies who saw him at close range personally when he was prisoner of Catelyn. Plus how many handsome blond knights with one hand are there…?
Also what’s the point of hiding in the army anyway? What he has to offer the North in lieu of an army is the intel that Cersei lied, and his experience as a commander. His contributions as a mere soldier would be modest at best.
QueenofThrones,
For the moment Jaime simply wants to honor his pledge, but I agree that he can do nothing as a soldier. He needs an army to make difference. Taking into account that he left KL on the horse back and that he will be travelling on winter roads, I don’t think that he will make it to WF, before the WW hit it. However, he looks like a perfect man to lift the siege, and there will be plenty of armed forces on and along the King’s Road: the Lannisters, the Freys (what’s left of them), the Tullies, even the Dothraki. It really looks like Jaime will be a the right place and time to muster them all and lifting the siege of WT would make him able to ask for mersy for Cersei or at least for their unborn child. That would be a scenario of mu choice, but the showrunners may do something completely different and not necessaily logical. So IDN.
Daario had promised to serve Dany until the end, whatever she asked of him. She asked that he stay where he was and keep order, to which he reluctantly agrees. Granted, he was very sad, yet already looking forward to the “great many” woman that would help him get over her. He wouldn’t want to hurt her, he still loved her. He believed in her dream and told Jorah he wanted to see it come true. I really believe if Daario does come back into the picture, it won’t be to damage Dany, it will be to help her whatever way he can.
I’m so sure of Daario’s loyalty that I can imagine a scenario where Jorah contacts him to come and help. He might even come to Westeros as part of the Golden Company, and help snatch away Cersei’s victory.
Thronetender,
Whatever Daario promised to Dany, he expected to get certain things in return. And she failed him, and that happened exactly when he started really loving her, and Dany really hurt . I don’t exclude the possibility that Daario will end up helping her or even sacrificing his own life for her, but before that happens she will have to face his wrath. Daario is not Jorah, he won’t thrive on unrequitted love. He is selfish, ambitious and jealuos, and if the showrunners bring him back it will be done to teach Dany a lesson about feeding the dogs and make problems, not to expand the ranks of her adorators.
Wrath? on Dany by Daario? I don’t remember any time at all show-Daario expected things from Dany that she didn’t deliver, and the only time I remember him getting even slightly bossy with her was when he strongly suggested she round up all the Masters she could find and kill them. Are you maybe thinking of book-Daario? That’s the only thing I could think of to explain the personality traits you mentioned. In the show, there was no wrathful or even slightly angry Daario.
He was a skilled and experienced killer, yes, but even with other men, he was never an ass. When the Unsullied were searching through the city for Harpies, Daario went with Grey Worm to help out. He found the Harpy hiding behind the wall, when Grey Worm had said the room was clear. Daario could have been arrogant about it, but was not, just quietly explaining to GW how sometimes you have to change your thinking a bit to figure out where your prey is hiding.
He was also not at all arrogant or at all mean to Jorah. The Daario you describe might have been a jealous jerk to another man in love with Dany, but Daario was always charming. The scenes when they were hunting for Dany were actually pretty funny at times. Jorah to Daario: “you didn’t get much discipline as a child, did you?” Those scenes were funny. show-Daario never showed any sort of bitterness or off-temper to any of the other regular characters.
At no time in the SHOW do I ever remember Daario making any personal demands of Dany or showing any possibility of the wrath you say exists. Yet, even with my enjoyment of show-Daario, I doubt they would spend the screen time to bring him back, with so few episodes scheduled, so all this debate about his character is kind of moot.
Thronetender,
OK. We can agree to disagree, but Daario has never been a man of pure intentions. He didn’t kill his commanders, because he fell in love with Dany out of the blue: he did that, because he saw her as an opportunity to gain power, and she slipped away from his clutch. I can’t see such a plot having a happy ending where the former partners part ways with no hard feelings and live happily ever after, especially taking into account how their last scene was written.
Interesting read. Jorah for me is one of those many grey characters on GOT/ASOIF he had his reasons but he sold slaves, he also lusts for a teenage girl (Dany) whilst generally wandering through the story getting bad treatment (more in the show than the books). In essence I believe for the narrative he probably needs to die an honourable death to put him out of his misery, similar to Theon, if he survives you’d imagine his only other option is to take the black if the Nights Watch still exist of course.
Thanks for reading and for your comments. We have similar views on the knight from Bear Island