There’s no rest for the wicked, and none for David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, showrunners of Game of Thrones since the show’s inception. For fans who thought the two busy executive producers (who also write many of GoT‘s episodes) would take a break after the show ends after eight seasons, think again! HBO announced today that Benioff and Weiss have created and will be running a new show for the network called Confederate. As on Game of Thrones, they’ll take on writing duties.
I’ll spare you a few worries- HBO confirms that production on Confederate won’t begin until after the final season of Game of Thrones, so D&D won’t be dividing their time.
So, what is the new show about? I’ll let HBO explain:
The series chronicles the events leading to the Third American Civil War. The series takes place in an alternate timeline, where the southern states have successfully seceded from the Union, giving rise to a nation in which slavery remains legal and has evolved into a modern institution. The story follows a broad swath of characters on both sides of the Mason-Dixon Demilitarized Zone – freedom fighters, slave hunters, politicians, abolitionists, journalists, the executives of a slave-holding conglomerate and the families of people in their thrall.
“We have discussed Confederate for years, originally as a concept for a feature film,” explains Benioff and Weiss. “But our experience on Thrones has convinced us that no one provides a bigger, better storytelling canvas than HBO. There won’t be dragons or White Walkers in this series, but we are creating a world, and we couldn’t imagine better partners in world-building than Nichelle and Malcolm, who have impressed us for a long time with their wit, their imagination and their Scrabble-playing skills.”
Joining them on their new enterprise as executive producers and writers for Confederate are Nichelle Tramble Spellman (Justified, The Good Wife) and Malcolm Spellman (Empire, the forthcoming Foxy Brown). Carolyn Strauss and Bernadette Caulfield (familiar names to Game of Thrones fans) will serve as executive producers.
What say you, Thrones fans? Will you be following Benioff and Weiss to their new series?
I’m curious about it, but cautious. I can see it starting some uncomfortable conversations.
another alternate history american dystopia… yawn
No, thank you.
I will definitely follow David & Dan to their new series! (I pretty much watch every HBO drama anyway…) This sounds really exciting – the idea alone has so much promise. I couldn’t have asked for a better post-Thrones HBO than one with a spin-off and another David & Dan show.
I’m in. I hope it’ll be good and successful. Benioff and Weiss deserve no less.
I look forward to it, it sounds really interesting.
D&D have earned my viewership and respect, looking forward to more of their work in the future.
I’ll wait for the trailer and initial reviews before I decide if I’m going to watch this, but the premise sounds intriguing.
BeautyBrienne,
Perfectly summed up.
BeautyBrienne,
***twirls endlessly***
………………………I love uncomfortable conversations………………..
Sounds sompletely uncompelling and even stupid to say the truth. Slavery as a modern institution? And where do migrants fit?
To reiterate what I just wrote in another thread… On the surface it doesn’t sound like something that I’d be too interested in. I wish them luck and I’m sure I’ll check it out when the time comes. It may end up being exactly like something I’m interested in. Ha!
I’m going to need a GoT replacement however, so I’m more excited for whatever comes out of the HBO search for another show in that world. Other than that, I’m keeping an eye on possible adaptations of The Wheel of Time, Hyperion, Red Mars and Xanth. A couple of those are further along and more likely than the others.
I mentioned somewhere else that i hopped HBO would do them well and let them create their own series on the channel. And I’m happy that this has been confirmed. Its great that HBO likes to keep their talent around.
I’ll happily watch any project that Benioff and Weiss want to create, write, and shepherd along. The two have completely earned my trust and admiration after their brilliant, intensely dedicated work on Game of Thrones, and they’ve more than earned the right to pick whatever their next venture will be after this show concludes.
I had thought that David and Dan would move on to writing feature films – I seemed to recall that they secured the rights to another book a while back, a kind of gritty crime story set in modern day middle America (Dirty White Boys, I believe it was called). But it sounds like they’re happy working with HBO, and HBO is obviously thrilled to keep them in the fold. It also fits with the premium cable network’s M.O. of staying in business with their most successful showrunners (David Simon, David Milch, etc.), giving them another series after their original, widely acclaimed show ends.
The particular concept for this series is an interesting one. I can see the clear similarities to Game of Thrones (intense political drama and familial intrigue, complete with the potential for a large-scale story, extensive worldbuilding, and morally complicated characters) while also being different (having nothing to do with medieval fantasy, although there is still a genre bent, being set in an alternate timeline). It could be a tricky thing to pull off, giving the highly charged nature of its subject matter. But if anyone can pull such a high-concept gamble off, I have every confidence that these two fine gentlemen are up to the challenge.
So I very much look forward to watching this new venture … in 2019 at the earliest. We’ve got another epic story to finish first. 😉
It certainly doesn’t sound boring! I’ll give it a go.
£100 says there will be a Trump-esque character as leader the “bad guys”, just to make sure nobody misses the point they’re trying to get across. Heh.
Sounds interesting…..!!! If it was straight up history, I wouldn’t be at all interested. But the alternate timeline raises all sorts of intriguing possibilities. I imagine that after the success of The Handmaid’s Tale, HBO is interested in these types of alternate dystopias.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt D&D. I’ll definitely tune into their new project. I wish them all the luck post-Thrones.
As someone who was a die-hard Lord of the Rings fan I was skeptical of Game of Thrones and didn’t even watch it the first few seasons because I didn’t think it could compare but I was proven wrong. The same applies here. You never know what they might do to capture your interest in the genre that you think is overplayed or just not interesting.
So it’s “Man in the High Castle” except using the Civil War? Sign me up!
In D&D I trust! I’ll give it a try.
ManderlyPieCompany,
Exactly why I’m bored already. I quit that one after ep 1.
Though I’m not a huge fan of D&D’s writing style, particularly when it comes to original material, which this obviously is, I’ll probably give it a watch.
The premise sounds interesting, and generally speaking I’ll usually give any HBO drama a try.
I am surprised that they aren’t taking a break though. For years, they’ve been talking about how the first thing they want to do when GoT ends is spend time with their families.
Regardless of my issues with them as writers, their dedication to GoT is pretty unquestionable, they’ve devoted over 11 years of their life to it, and it’s been a 52 week a year job for them.
You’d think they’d want some downtime before committing to a new project, let alone another serialized drama.
BeautyBrienne,
GREAT!! ANOTHER FUCKIN SLAVE SHOW!!! IM SURE MY ANCESTORS ARE HONORED!!! I’m sick of these slave movies & shows. Can’t we just be Summer Islanders? Or even Redguards like in Skyrim? Smh
Isn’t that the point of art, even popular art?
LOL, on the other hand at least there is a reason to hire more POC… slavery as a modern institution… that just sounds so unrealistic, or at least not really something I think I would like to think about or watch… even by today’s standards no organization does this openly – it is all part of darker criminal markets… so an entire country that openly supports slavery… and the rest of the world is just cool with that? Do they branch outside of African slaves? Asian, Latino… this just has all kinds of weird and red flags… I wouldn’t want to be an actor playing a slave or a slaver seller/owner/breeder – too much baggage. I think I’ve thought about this too much already… not sure if this concept is for me.
Seems boring
As long as they are not writing any game of thrones spinoffs im on board and will check it out, they are good writers and world builders but not on the level i wish they were for my favorite property :/
OK so this answers my question. These guys are checked out and are working on this. If you believe the whole “they won’t be working on this till after the series is over” I have beach front property to sell you right here in Arizona. For HBO to make this announcement on such a controversial series, I guarantee you a ton of development has already been done on this concept and wouldn’t be surprised if the pilot script has already been written. These guys lost interest in GoT and have been working on this.
They are doing this based on a novel. They said in an interview two years ago they loved this project because the first line of the book has the n word in it and they seen it was going to be great for HBO yet controversal. but they like to push the limits.
Well when they talked about it before they said it was based on a book but it seems this is all them so idk…
LatrineDiggerBrian,
You need to read the article more closely. It clearly says that production for the project won’t begin until the final season of GOT is finished. Besides, where would they find the time to work on this?
The show sound like it could be interesting, but the concept is hardly original. In fact, it’s a flat-out rip-off of a satirical faux-documentary called C.S.A.: The Confederate States of America from 2004. I’m not sure that D&D & Co are going to be able to say anything more than that movie had to say, to be honest.
http://imdb.com/title/tt0389828/?ref=m_nv_sr_1
D&D must have been thinking, planning and negotiating this new production while writing and hiring the directors for season 6…. that answers alot my season 6 questions/issues. Don’t get upset Watchers I am just messing with you.
Maybe the wait for Game of Thrones season 8 won’t be as long as previously rumored.
Which is good news…
Young Dragon,
Yes I addressed this in my post. So do you want to buy the beach front property I have to sell in AZ? They’re obviously not going to start shooting it during GoT, but they’re definitely researching, developing it, and probably even writing the pilot.
firstone,
And S7 as it is apparent so far. I bet they’re probably letting the two interns do most of the writing.
I’ll give it a go but it definitely doesn’t grab my interest right away. I wish they had created/selected something a little but more original as their first post-Thrones show. But as someone said above, they’ve earned my respect enough that I will give it my standard new show tryout (3 episodes to grab me or I’m out).
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Yes, you addressed it in a very immature way without providing a shred of evidence. Your bias is clearly showing. They’ve obviously began pre-planning, but that’s not taking up a whole lot of time. GOT is still their main focus, and if they’ve truly lost interest, their seasons wouldn’t keep getting bigger and bigger.
Well, I love GoT for it encompasses all the pieces that make me live storytelling. To show an example of how grand and rare GOT is, I’ll mention Westwolrd. A huge epic, talented cast, and creative story. But I’m NOT in love with any of them. Not really emotionally invested, given they are not bringing back the one character that was investable.
From the start I was in love with GoT. The stark family, in particular. You were just emerged. It was a thriller. A heart-pumper. A drama. Action. With soul and enough evil and defiance of norm: she incest and brothels in a fantasy show. I mean it’s everything.
What DnD are potentially doing is making a political series, that’s too charged to enjoy. Every article will slam it. Media will shame it. It will be set up fail. I’m southern, five+ generations on my mom’s side. I grew up with pride for the south, that had nothing to do with slavery. Gone with the Wind, southern. People have always had rebel flags, but as pride of the south, and not at all to mean slavery. That’s hard to swallow for people. You can’t say that out loud, people will vilify you.. Yet it’s so much of the south that taught patriotism. If this ends up being some hit-piece on evil southerners, that distorts the other truth, that where slavery is evil horror of humanity, HORROR, and should disgust mankind for thousands of years of it… it was not a totality way of life for the south. A very low % of the south even had slaves. And most fought bc it was for the south; not to keep slavery, and white supremacy, but fight for a homeland that was being charged on. Or that the northern forces weren’t white-hat men that came in without agenda, prejudice of blacks, raping and pillaging of black women. Or that Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union, more than abolishing slavery. The war it’s not one-sided. That existed. They won’t be able to tell that story. Media would blacklist them. I mean, why watch that? I don’t want to hear the media. They have already started. They control the conversation, even when they don’t speak for a whole of America.
I feel mixed on this. I’m done with pop-culture politics in TV, that’s why I love GoT, it’s removed enough.
Markus Stark,
I’m glad they are not going to just to films. I much prefer TV these days. Moe quality. But they’ve probably got 3 or 4 scripts or more done of S8, they probably will have time to write a pilot for this ep. Or find the time. It does make me feel like they are not putting everything into thrones, maybe that explains some of the errors of last season, and some stuff in 701 just didn’t work. I don’t know what happened.
I’m all for interesting commentary on our society, but from the description this feels like it’s purely intended to cause even more division, and enflame people’s ugliest emotions (on both sides).
I would have rather seem a show that is another alternative outcome – where after the Civil War, black Americans were compensated and celebrated and honored for their contributions to the early years of this country, where America successfully integrates and creates a harmonious society. One that’s invaded by Zombies and Dragons that together we all vanquish :).
I guess that means I’m tiring of clickbait TV, which this at a glance fits the mold.
Young Dragon,
Bigger doesn’t mean better.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I never said it did. But bigger does mean more time and effort involved. If D&D were really getting too tired and too lazy to put in the work, seasons would be getting toned down. But they’re not, because D&D are continuing to work hard and are trying to give us the best tv show they can.
I’ll check it out for sure, assuming I still have HBO access when it drops.
I’m a bit antsy about the implications of a slaveholding nation being portrayed as anything close to a stable country in the modern era. Especially with a free nation bordering it. TBH it should be as much a mess as North Korea.
I’m not awfully keen on “what if scenario” type of stories – there was something – can’t remember whether it was a film or a TV show to be honest, in the UK earlier this year with the premise of supposing the Nazis had successfully invaded Britain. I didn’t bother with that. Of course, the two Ds are free to do what they want to do, but I doubt I’ll watch it. No criticism intended, just doesn’t sound like my kind of thing.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
It baffles me why you actually come back here each year when you clearly hate the show/writers/characters/actors/story so much?
All I have seen the past 18 months is negativity no matter what the actual article is about, I don’t post very often myself but I do read the comments and I just don’t understand why you haven’t given up on the show and instead just wait for the books to come out instead to save yourself some negative energy.
Dame of Mercia,
Yes, I’ve been watching ‘The Handmaid’s Tale’ and don’t really get why the reviews are so gushing. I don’t mind dystopian TV but it’s quite dull. Part of that is that I don’t see anything special about Elisabeth Moss, she may for all I know be a great actor but has all the charisma of a bowl of oats IMO.
The show you mention was SS-GB which I haven’t seen yet (it’s on my PVR) but I did read the Len Deighton book many years ago.
As for D&D well inevitable I suppose it attracts the cynics here on WoTW. Slavery is still an issue in parts of the world (even in the first world as the ‘sex trade’) so it is a subject still relevant, no matter if an uncomfortable one. I don’t know if I’d still have access to HBO shows when their new show appears since I might cancel my Now TV subscription which I only really pay for to see GoT!
I will definitely check it out!!!!!!!!! D&D deserve my support after the amazing product they have been giving us!
Isn’t GoT one of the worst shows ever made? I remember westeros org folk saying it during S5 and how everyone who still likes it is dumb and simple-minded.
(I’m not serious on this though… it’s one of my favorite shows as well and the producers have my full respect)
Haters gonna hate.
10 million watched the premiere on the first night in USA only.
nuff said
Dee Stark,
Yes, for sure. The show will leave a lasting legacy and funny how I progressively like seasons more (and I used to be a book reader). We must never forget the haters represent just a tiny bit of fandom and that there is always a bunch of fans who like the show and stay quiet.
Lord Parramandas,
of course!
Dee Stark,
Haha, as I’m editing my own video review at the moment, westeros org ones came to my mind… god those two people were toxic and the negative vibe could have been felt from a mile away.
Gotta say it. Yawn.
Lord Parramandas,
thankful I never saw any of them
Dee Stark,
I saw only one… the Red Wedding one and that was before I knew how awful and book-biased they were.
I will give it a look if I still have HBO at the time. I sign up for a time to see GOT and once I can cancel it without paying a penalty, I drop it.
I tried watching Man in the High Castle but it was not my cup of tea. It just fell flat for me because I kept thinking but that is not what happened. …and this may end up in the same bin for me.
I don’t see how they can explain away the agrarian South’s ability to fight off the industrialized North. Once they lost control of the Mississippi river, the Confederacy was dead even if it took more fighting to really seal its fate.
I’ll give it a try. I enjoy what they’ve done with Game of Thrones and I also enjoyed a few alternate history novels in the past. Unfortunately I can see a bunch of people throwing a fit over this for numerous reasons. I also don’t think this new show or even the Game of Thrones spinoffs will ever reach the same status as Game of Thrones itself. But we all know that already. This show was the absolute perfect combinations of every variable and it will be very hard to top. Still, I’ll watch both series when they come out but with realistic expectations 🙂
I’m a sucker for alternate history, so long as the logic holds up. I love “Man in the High Castle” because you can pinpoint the place history diverged and they’ve put in enough world-building to make us realize… oh yeah, that could have happened.
Plus, the scene in the credits where the shadow of the paratroopers cross Mt. Rushmore like the Presidents are crying gets me every single time.
I’m in.
Well, I must say that the advent of ANOTHER futuristic, what-if, it-could-be, does not excite me at all. Quite honestly, I think they have done an amazing job with the material for GOT (and yes, I’ve read the books) overall, but it’s not for me. Starting to get quite bored with this premise.
Well, since I’m sure they will be eager to start their new project, I hope this means that we will be give the final season of GoT next summer instead of the ridiculous date of 2019 that was floated out,
I’m a sucker for uchronic dystopias, so I would definitely give it a try…
RBloodworth,
Actually, there is also a book series by Harry turtledove that is about multiple American civil Wars. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use it for their source material.
I’ll watch the first episode, but from the description it seems like a lodestone for SJ. Also they have been great adapters, but the original material I found rather generic and sometimes even terrible.
Daeryssa,
I’m not a book reader. I am unique in the fanbase in that I am a show watcher that loved S1-5 but hated S6 and now S7 seems to be continuing along the same lines, though honestly the episode wasn’t horrible, but by GoT standards it was poor to me. It was hands down the worst opener. So I can’t help it sorry.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I am still blown away at how good seasons 1-5 are. That’s why I am still watching Game of Thrones. Season 6 isn’t as good as the previous 5 seasons and I’ve been looking for answers why. This statement could be one of the reasons:
“We have discussed Confederate for years, originally as a concept for a feature film,” explains Benioff and Weiss
Another reason could be that GRRM is not as involved with the TV show as he used to be.
I am also thinking D&D are not as involved in over site of the production of Game of Thrones as they used to be in seasons 1-5. Game of Thrones has a lot of producers and it’s a possible that other producers did the over site of season 6 and current episodes. There is only 6 episodes coming in season 8 and D&D are only writing 4 of the season 8 episodes.
Also a lot of talent in seasons 1-5 has been killed and the story hasn’t replaced those characters with anybody as good those characters that are gone.
Season 6 and Dragonstone is still very good and I am sure I will like season 7… but not as good as previous seasons and this article could be one of the reasons.
I thought HBO was releasing a GOT sequel? Haven’t I been reading that lately?
Lord Parramandas,
There are some trolls and truly sad iniduviduals on Westeros.org mixed in with some very knowledgeable people such a shame it got dragged down into a troll habit. I noted again on the Dragonstone review 10% of reviewers scored the episode 1/10.
I’ve been avoiding this site to avoid spoilers: I won’t be back in the States for another week, so I’ve seen and heard nothing about the season so far! (THANK YOU, JODIE WHITTAKER! 😀 )
I’ve seen a lot of sturm and drang about this. However, my thought is: this show is only a problem if it tries to make the Southern white establishment look at all good. What it sounds like it is going to do is make the Confederacy a pretty awful fascist theocracy. Yes, yes, I know: why do we need to see something this awful when the American South already is almost this awful? (That is the most common criticism I’ve seen.) Well:
1. American Southerners buy heavily into a fake history in which slavery in particular and white supremacism were not the primary causes for the Southern states rebelling. It will be interesting to see an alternative history based on what they really were doing.
2. We narrowly missed this in reality. England and France were tempted to recognize the South: if only because they foresaw how dangerous a United States spanning so much of the continent might be. However, their contempt of slavery (coupled with the Confederates foolishly thinking that this was actually a selling point) actually led them to do the honorable thing. Yeah, sometimes monkeys do type Shakespeare.
3. This is a potentially interesting thought experiment. Think of how differently WWI goes with the North and South joining opposite sides. Germany probably doesn’t lose in this scenario because England cannot maintain trade with the US if it’s North American ally (probably the South) is completely caught up fighting the other country. (The UK came very close to collapsing in the middle of WWI because of lack of key imports; what did come through from the US kept them going long enough to hold on & win.) So, fascism probably arises in France (remember, no revealing that Dreyfuss was innocent!) and possibly the UK, not Germany (which retains an autocratic monarchy). Communism’s ugly head probably still rises in Russia, however. That makes WWII again inevitable: but with a completely different arrangement. Yowzah.
On a side note, I was joking with my wife that I was wondering if the Doctor Who producers foolishly thought that announcing the new Doctor on Sunday would somehow upstage the premier of Game of Thrones. Well, holy crap: it actually did!
I might try the first episode when it finally airs, but based on just the premise? Yuck. No, thanks.
firstone,
Mileage varies. I thought Season 6 was a vast improvement over Season 5. The Dorne nonsense was dispatched (Spoiler – It sucks in the books too.)
No one has explained to me the Loras/Littlefinger/High Sparrow thing and how it makes sense. I’m exhausted by the Sansa thing.
When they got free of the dreary slog of Books 4 and 5, they improved.
I’m going to watch. I like alternate history.
And yes, based on “The Man in the High Castle,” there are going to be some uncomfortable stories where Confederates (like Nazis and the Japanese) are portrayed as human. Part of that will depend on the actor.
Without spoiling, Rufus Sewell is one of my favorite actors (still think he’d have been a great Euron) and he’s playing a Nazi. It’s really hard not to smile when he’s on screen, mainly because he’s acting against bland dudes who honestly all look alike.
heh, there is nothing more human than being a complete and utter asshole devoid of any sense of empathy or obligation to others!
However, it probably will be unavoidable that some Confederates will be portrayed as good humans. After all, if there are abolitionists, then that really matters only in the CSA: after all, the CSA will care little more for what Amnesty International is saying that Jeff Sessions does!
In what is he playing a Nazi? (I recently saw the actor who plays Roose Bolton playing a Polish zookeeper who helped saved Jews from Nazis! Er: was Sewell in the Zookeeper’s Wife and I just didn’t notice him?)
Wimsey,
Sewell is playing a Nazi. Without spoiling, he plays an American who fought for the Allies and turned. He is now the German equivalent of a General and oversees Nazi operations in New York City.
Wait, in Confederate? There almost certainly would not have been German Nazis if there was still a Confederacy. The Hohenzollern’s would still be running Germany, either directly, or perhaps as a constitutional monarchy by now. After all, there is almost no way that Germany would have lost WWI if the United States had been fighting a war close to home: that’s why they were so keen to get Mexico to attack the US.
Now, we never will know for certain: but usually the thought experiment plays out based on the assumption that the Confederacy wins the Civil War as a side-effect of England and/or France recognizing the CSA as a legitimate country. (This subject came up here once when discussing Jon Snow being “neutral” at the Wall: when a civil war is happening, there is no such thing as neutrality, and England & France remaining “neutral” effectively put them on the side of the US.)
Now, 50 years is a long-time: but if the UK &/or France recognize the CSA in the Civil War, then the CSA probably sides with the UK & France in WWI. The US probably sides with Germany & Austria. But it almost does matter: either way, the USA & CSA go at it in 1915 or so. A collateral effect is that the UK’s economy probably collapses in 1916 or 1917 due to inability to get fertilizers and other things to keep their farms going. And the UK collapse means that France falls to Germany. So, if there was a Confederacy in 1914, then there would not have been Nazi Germany in 1938.
Now, a French Fascist general or possibly even an English nationalist general, I could buy: what happened in Germany would have happened in France and possibly the UK if the Germans had won WWI.
Wimsey,
No, in Man in the High Castle. I’m using that to compare the shows and pointing out that there is a danger/weirdness in showing the bad guys.
Confederate could have slaveowners in the same role and that will be… interesting.
But I trust these guys.
Kosh Naranek,
The avalanche has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Kosh Naranek,
“I don’t see how they can explain away the agrarian South’s ability to fight off the industrialized North. Once they lost control of the Mississippi river, the Confederacy was dead even if it took more fighting to really seal its fate.”
Intriguing. How will the South win in this alternate reality? Now, I’m already invested in this show to learn the answer.
So…“The Man in the High Plantation” then? Sure, why not…
ramses,
Many people think that if the UK and/or France had recognized the CSA, then the US probably would have conceded to the rebels. Many US southerners still firmly believe that one more major victory and that would have happened.
Of course, the South did score major victories early. The UK and France were tempted to recognize the CSA, but they refused because at that time, the South essentially was bragging that they were rebelling to uphold slavery.
It took a little while for Northern Industrial might to get into gear. Moreover, it took about three years for the US to find generals who would not blindly follow pre-Industrial tactics. Trains, automated weaponary, etc., had no more place in Napoleon’s plans than did tanks or airplanes!
Also, the slavery issue cut both ways. A lot of Northerners just did not care enough about slavery: they disliked it, but they were not thrilled to get killed trying to stop the Southerners from keeping it. So, early recognition of the CSA by Europe could have ended the war in the South’s favor: but their reason for rebelling worked against them.
I now amvery curious to see what ripple effects B&W envision!
Yeah, it would. Slaveowners like Jefferson & Madison wanted slavery to be phased out over a few generations. However, a big reason for that is that they (like other intellectuals of their time) thought that all evolution was Lamarckian – each generation had to actively strive towards some goal – and that most slaves were not yet ready to be free people. They were a bit unusual for their time in that they were heavily influenced by Northern and European views (both having spent much time outside of Virginia); by the time of the Civil War, intellectualism was dead among slave-owners. Given how anti-intellectual the American south is today, one can only wonder at how more so they would be if they were the CSA rather than red states!
In a lot of ways, what we should see are slave-owners who vehemently embrace nationalism/fascism, and it’s tough to make a nationalist look like a decent human.
Wimsey,
Hello Wimsey!
Yes! of course, recognition (and financial backing) of CSA as a sovereign nation by foreign countries would have helped the South to win, along with the other factors you listed. I’d add to that list a earlier assassination of Lincoln as a hit to the morale of the north.
I hope you’re enjoying your summer. I read earlier that you are out of the States until next week. I look forward to your regular contributions to WotW upon your return!
In an alternate Africa-ruled American South, slave labor is used from Europe to colonize the Americas. The Islamic African aristocratic family of Wakil Abu Ali indulge in luxury at their glorious estate called Dar Kush while white slaves–slaves like the young Aidan O’Dere and his Druid Irish family–work the land.
it’s called Lion’s Blood with a sequel Zulu Heart….. Make that.
firstone,
Spot on. The same happened with Terrence Winter and Boardwalk Empire, the last 2 seasons saw a drop off as he started working on Vinyl. If HBO is doing this with their show runners, they need to stop.