We’re in that ‘between’ phase, Game of Thrones fans. We’re currently between the Emmy nominations list, and the final Emmy awards in which GOT is eligible (and has beaten its own nomination record.) We’re between the end of GOT, and the start date of whenever the spinoff decides to debut. We’re between the debut of the final list of our eligible season 8 WOTW nominees, and the reveal of which of those nominees will be announced on nomination night. Amidst all this, news of the spinoff, or lack thereof, whose pilot recently concluded filming, has been rather sparse, so we’re always on the look for news to report about the spinoff or our dearly departed GOT itself. And right now, it looks to be an interview with the always exciting Gwendoline Christie on her road through Brienne’s arc, and some words of wisdom from a very tight-lipped Naomi Watts, on spoilers from the upcoming spinoff. Read on to check them out!
Gwen sat down with Hollywood Reporter to walk them through her identification with the character of Brienne: “I felt that my experiences as a woman, with the way that I look, and [the feeling that] my experiences of life somehow weren’t relevant and didn’t have a place, and somehow didn’t mean success. All I knew was I had an extreme emotional connection to her. I wanted to play this part because, for me as an actor, I felt like this was a character with something to say, that allowed me to speak my truth.” After revealing that she had told no one other than her partner about her self-submitted Emmy nomination, her reaction was: “I was in a taxi on my way to work, to the theater, where I’m doing a play at the moment. The phone rang, and it was my publicist. When they said I’d been nominated — well, let me tell you, I experienced every single emotion known to man.”
We all know that Gwen was a powerhouse from the day we first saw her take off Brienne’s helmet in season 2, but even more impressive was Gwen’s portrayal of the character from beginning to end: “We saw a woman who wanted to be a member of the Kingsguard, and she ends up being not just a member of the Kingsguard, but ends up as the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. She also allows herself the opportunity to have a sexual experience, which is her choosing. She takes responsibility for any potential outcomes of it. She allows herself to be vulnerable and emotional.” Gwen is also aware of the importance Brienne has to influence the industry, in terms of the way future roles are portrayed: “I will say women often find it difficult to put themselves forward, and maybe that’s what we need to take the courage to do in order to see a greater diversity in the world. We can empower ourselves by putting ourselves forward for something we never believe is going to happen.”
Meanwhile, Naomi Watts, in an interview with Net-A-Porter dished on her mysterious new character in the upcoming spinoff, or what she’s allowed to tell us at any rate (hint: nothing): “I am literally not allowed to say anything about it…I didn’t start watching [Game of Thrones] until I was approached about this job…But my brother [photographer Ben Watts], who is heavily into it, told me, ‘Under no circumstances are you going to turn this down.’” Following this, she immediately binged seasons 1-7 of GOT, and then presumably watched season 8 in real-time along with all of us. However, she fears that in spite of her already famous persona, the hype train that follows GOT might just increase her public profile: “I still have fears about that…I don’t really know what to prepare for.”
Unfortunately, she doesn’t have much more to say for the time being about the contents of the mysterious GOT spinoff, but in the meantime, head over and check out the rest of the interview to hear Naomi talk more about her journey as a woman through a difficult industry. Additionally, you can check out the rest of the interview with Gwendoline Christie – she had a bunch of awesome things to say about Brienne and women in the industry as well.
Sandor!
Yeah, huge info dump there!! 😀
I imagine one wouldn’t want to talk to much about a series before it’s gets picked up either though huh…
Gwendoline’s love for Brienne has always been so sincere. The entire time she’s been on the show she’s been the #1 Supporter of the Brienne of Tarth Fan Club.
Am I allowed to hope she turns up in a somehow Brienne inspired Emmys dress?
Excepted from “The Hollywood Reporter” interview of Gwendoline Christie, summarizing the four GoT actresses nominated for Best Supporting Actress:
MAISIE WILLIAMS as Arya Stark
“Williams’ performance as the precocious — and now deadly — Arya was one of the most memorable of the final season. The physically demanding role saw her slay the Night King, and earned the 22-year-old (who, like co-star Turner, scored an X-Men role) a second Emmy nomination for her work.”
Let me fix that…
MAISIE WILLIAMS as Arya Stark
“Williams’s performance as the precocious — and now deadly — Arya was the most memorable of the final season. The physically demanding and emotionally resonant role saw her slay the Night King and reclaim her humanity, and earned the 22-year-old (who, like co-star Turner, scored an X-Men role) a second Emmy nomination for her work.”
<3 Brienne <3 Gwen absolute feminist icons the both of 'em! So well deserved.
Yes. Yes you are.
Just like I am hoping Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams engage in one of their faux makeout sessions to troll the audience.
#Mophie
#LordCommanderBrienneOfF*ckingTarth
Would it ruin anything if these people at least disclosed where on the Planetos map their character’s arc is focused? Or begins?
Although Gwen can make even the most ridiculous getup look smashing, I find it difficult to conceive of a dress that outdoes that Faerie Queen gown apparently made of stitched-together multicolored smoke that she wore to the GoT S8 premiere.
Hear! Hear! She looked divine!
Singedbylife,
The Caris Van Houten dress??????
Ohhhhhhhh, I’m melting for this dress!!!!
Of course Naomi Watts doesn’t want to tell us that she’ll become the Night’s Queen…😁🤪
Those still gestating White Walker babies will come in nicely when they do a limited sequel series to GOT in about ten years like Tyrion told Jon
Pretty clear that they didn’t destroy all the White Walkers… something is still lurking in the the far North…
Luckily Drogon will still be around as well as a certain Targaryen-Stark half-breed who will have to return to the six…well six plus one independent kingdom, during great upheaval, signs and portents…and then Jon will take to the skies again…
So basically the North is the UK after Brexit?!
And who has a better story than… Gwendoline Christie?
I think she can maybe even win.
She had a strong season and story of self-submitting for Emmys sounds powerful. It can help her.
Game of Thrones’ Creators Close $200M Netflix Overall Deal
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-creators-close-200m-netflix-deal-1230119
Insane dress but some of Iris Van Herpen’s are OFF THE CHARTS
Like Tormund said, “F*ck tradition*
It would be a GREAT story
Lol, Natalia Tena (Osha) didn’t like the ending at all.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/former-game-of-thrones-star-natalia-tena-season-8-finale-s8-150130942.html
mau,
They deserve it. If it’s half as brilliant as game of thrones is, it will make Netflix a lot of money.
Mr Derp,
Im wondering if this is creditable. I look it up and only yahoo rapported this interview. Yahoo is not a creditable source. It had lot of fake news in the past. And it seems not a single creditable source is out there with this interview, even in the interview its not stated if the interview was with them, with another newsmedium etc. Not saying it’s fake but as long as yahoo is the only one saying this I’m not buying it.
The wording is also very strange and it worded how people who didn’t like the final season wanted to hear. That Arya killed the night king.
But i can see Natalia not liking the season. She was very open that she didn’t like season 5 and 6 that things were rushed there. So I can see her disliking it. But all I want is a creditable source.
Kevin1989,
She thought season 5 was rushed? I thought that was one of the slower seasons. But you’re right. I don’t see this story anywhere else, which is odd considering how much news coverage season 8 has been receiving.
Young Dragon,
Maybe rushed not right word. And don’t take my words for it. I just write from memory. But I though like many she felt the show cut corners like with cutting her story short in season 6. That first seasons were more fleshed out. And I think that’s true. Especially after season 3 and 4 which took their time with every story.
Young Dragon,
Osha’s (and also Rickon’s) ending was rushed, I had expected something more with that storyline. Rickon and Osha were only brought back to be killed.
Chilli,
Well, Osha and Rickon didn’t really have a storyline, but I see what you mean. They died so Jon and then Sansa could become King/Queen in the North. I understand why Natalia Tena is upset, being killed off so quickly after being absent for two seasons, but I wasn’t bothered by it, personally. They were both great actors, but GOT is simply too big with too many characters. They needed to thin the herd. However, one of my biggest gripes with the show post season 6 was how Rickon was never really mentioned again.
It’s a podcast that hasn’t been broadcast yet.
“Listen to the full episode of Kate Thornton’s White Wine Question Time with Natalia Tena and Faye Marsay when it launches tomorrow”.
The link to all the previous podcasts is in the article, so I’m guessing you’ll be able to listen to it tomorrow.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/white-wine-question-time/id1447646731
“Listen to the full episode of Kate Thornton’s White Wine Question Time with Natalia Tena and Faye Marsay when it launches tomorrow”.
The link to all the previous podcasts is in the article, so I’m guessing you’ll be able to listen to it tomorrow.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/white-wine-question-time/id1447646731
She felt the same way that many (the majority of people, I believe felt) ……WTF? She hated it.
It seems that this is also a common cast reaction from what NCW’s stand in managed to say before HBO lawyers shut him up. From some, it was resigned acceptance when they got the script.. even by those now forced to defend the ending.
My Queen. ❤
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv2IO0WB7nW/?igshid=p42afqny6sla
I think they’d be better off forgetting about the X-Men mention, considering the resounding failure of Dark Phoenix and inexplicable delay (ie. another likely bungle) of New Mutants. 😕
Imagine if she’d been in the same place as Jason Momoa when he watched it. There may have been spontaneous combustion between the both of them. 😆
I mostly agree with her. The first 3 episodes were solid for me, 2 being my favourite. There were many scenes in 4-6 that I absolutely loved, and so many aspects that were amazingly done, but saying I was left going “huh” would sum it up. I don’t mind when I personally don’t see a character’s ending how I want it, that’s how stories go. But the road there, well…yeah.
Pigeon,
Most beautiful dress ever!
Chilli,
I think this already started back in season 2, season 2 omitted story-parts, but here it didn’t matter because still every character had a great storyline and the omitted parts only concerned season 2.
Season 3 already cut some scene I wanted to see from the books. I missed some Arya storyline parts that I found very beautiful in the books. That that witch said to her that Arya looks beautiful would have been amazing to see on screen. And the beginning of Gendry and Arya’s love.
But for me season 5 had the biggest problem when it comes to rushed this is where the problems arises. The problem of GoT can be summed up with just 2 points:
1. They did want many character to be in at least 7/8 episodes. For instance Dany.
2. They want every season to be big on its own.
2 sounds great but it also made sure that they want all storylines to be ended at the end of a season, meaning parts needed to be cut.
1 also a big problem, it made sure many storylines goes faster then it needs to be. I still think season 5 should have been the set up of the second part we got in season 5, maybe only hardhome should have been resolved in season 5. Later more on this in another post after my work how I would have structured season 5 and 6 (making it 3 seasons)
Mango,
Why did you quote me? I made no comment about the cast or their opinions.
Mango,
The cast have been mostly supportive, Nikolaj included, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to. And I don’t know where you got the idea that most people hated it.
Young Dragon,
It’s the same twisted logic Star Wars haters use. When someone from the cast says something good about it – they are forced. When they say something bad – they are honest.
When a celebrity says something good – they are just friends with creators or affraid of Disney. When they say something bad – they a brave.
What is in root of this behavior? Insecurity in their own opinion and constant need for validation.
Young Dragon,
It’s the same twisted logic Star Wars haters use. When someone from the cast says something good about it – they are forced. When they say something bad – they are honest.
When a celebrity says something good – they are just friends with creators or affraid of Disney. When they say something bad – they a brave.
What is in root of this behavior? Insecurity in their own opinion and constant need for validation.
Quote you….I picked up the link from your post. Did it show a quote from you? Just clumsy, I suppose.
kevin1989,
In some ways GoT was the victim of its own success, I think. The more popular the show became, the more the showrunners tried to outdo themselves with attention-grabbing spectacle. (More horsies! More dragons! More bodies! More battles!) It satisfied the appetite of the masses – the casual viewers – while the die-hard fans and book readers missed the intricate storytelling and “high thread count” character moments from earlier seasons.
My all-time favorite episode, “Mockingbird”, S4e7, had unforgettable scenes of two characters – just talking, e.g., Oberyn & Tyrion “I will be your champion“; Bronn & Tyrion “I hope to hear them sing it someday”; Hot Pie & Brienne (I think); and of course Sandor & Arya “The pain was bad; the smell was worse; but the worst thing was that it was my brother who did it…”
Then again, there were episodes like “Hardhome” that had both engaging character interaction and “holy sh*t!-level spectacle. Still, it’s difficult to have both.
Of course, they have been supportive. What did you expect them to do?
Where did I get the idea that most people hated it? Not from you, I can confirm that.
You need not worry about me quoting you. I can make up my own crap.
Ten Bears,
I think this a part of the problem….trying too hard to outdo the “last time”, trying too hard to shock, surprise and find original end points by taking stories along unforeseen paths.
Sometimes – that just bites you in the ass.
Pigeon,
“…but saying I was left going “huh” would sum it up. I don’t mind when I personally don’t see a character’s ending how I want it, that’s how stories go. But the road there, well…yeah.”
_______
I liked Natalia Tena’s portrayal of Osha so much that I felt let down when they brought her back just long enough for Ramsay to kill her. (What I call a “Hello, I must be going” appearance, quoting from the song by Groucho Marx as Captain Spaulding.) I kind of wish Osha had at least used her knife to “alter” Ramsay’s face before she was killed.
Ten Bears,
I think it became clear in S6 that there is no plan for these minor characters, like Osha, Rickon, Blackfish, Edmure, Benjen and so on. They were brought back to tie lose ends and nothing more.
Beric is the only character whose story was developed more. And he is dead in the books lol
In a way S6 also made it clear that GRRM had very little to really give to D&D in terms of information of future story. Since they had to develop story even for major and some secondary characters it made sense that they will have no time to really flesh out tertiary characters like Osha and Blackfish.
GRRM said he liked show version of Osha so much that he will expand her role in the books, so I think it was disappointing for Natalia to learn that’s not the case with the show.
But at the end of the day everything is GRRM’s fault lol. He put Benioff and Weiss in unbelievably hard situation.
I think they are happy now that it’s over and they can move to Netflix and Star Wars.
Grandmaester Flash,
Thank you. It was not that I didn’t really believe it but I found it strange that yahoo was the one only talking about. A news-site I’m not always believing.
Ten Bears,
Agree. And also if you add more characters you have 3 choices, 1 divide the story of 1 season to 2 seasons. Or 2. Add more episodes in a season. Or 3. which they went with: Make every story shorter.
mau,
Agree, if he had at least finished the books or give them what he already wrote they would have had more source material to use.
But I think half is also D&D fault, I defend them always but when I think of season 5, they made the choice to omit a lot of characters from the books that had their own storylines. Storylines that could have help them later on to give more dimension to their main characters. They omitted it because they didn’t read the resolution of those characters yet. They should have just added them let the story breathe more. And if they decided not to go any further with those stories they could just have eliminated them in another season in a GoT kind of fashion. example: Griff. Is he important or not is the question. If they would have added him and he was endgame they could go with what the books will do, is he not, he could just be killed by Cersei for example.
Another problem was that they wanted to many characters having a big role each season. For instance season 5 didn’t need that much Dany why? Because if the story moved to Tyrion for instance the story had the Dany feeling all over it. He was going to her. She didn’t need to be shown that much because her present was already there. (Same with what people said of Sansa in 8×05, she was not in the episode, but her presence was there)
As for how I think the seasons should have gone:
season 5: Omit the whole Dorne plot how it was shown except what I will tell at the end.
Having Jaime stay in KL until halfway through the season. He get the assignment to go to riverrun. The season ends with Riverrun for Jaime.
Having Cersei’s story the same.
Arya the same as she had in season 5.
Sansa having a smaller role then she had in the show, like the books it should have involved the Vale politics. Maybe just 2 or 3 episodes in the whole season.
Bran should have been seen in 5×09 and 5×10. Maybe give us a start of what his storyline will be in the next season.
Jon should have had the same storyline.
Theon the same but like his book counter part with Jeyne.
Stannis could have been longer in the show. Season 5 could have ended that he will convince the nortern lords, some came some not. And that he was trapped in the snow. Shireen being burned. Selyse killing herself. Stannis decide to move forward to Winterfell.
Sam: Same as the show season 5.
Brienne: More like her book counter part. But having her end in riverrun.
Dany storyline should have been shorter. And only about ruling Mereen.
Tyrion should have been longer. The first 2 episodes he should have been in Pentos. Episode 4 he should have met Griff. Episode 5 he should get to know them. Episode 6 The Stoneman. Episode 8 he should have been captured by Jorah. And in the final captured by slavers.
Dorne should have been smaller and be started around half-way through the season. Just setting up the table and having the season end with in mind what Arianne’s plan was. Crowning Myrcella. Nothing more. Rest is for the next season.
Iron Island the same it should have introduced Euron with the dead of Balon. And the Kingsmoot should have been done except no Theon there.
Having Griff moving to westeros. Having his story end with his words that he will not wait on Dany and move West now with the Golden Company.
season 6 next comment.
Rest assured, it is credible. This article is not just on Yahoo. If you do a Google search “Natalia Tena Game of Thrones Ending” you’ll find that there are numerous sites reporting it.
Mango,
I expect them to give their honest opinion and have no reason to believe otherwise. Natalia Tena is giving her honest opinion, and the rest of the cast are doing the same.
kevin1989,
Jon: Getting back to life. Preparing to go to battle. Just like the show. Just on difference. Sansa later more on that.
Stannis: Being killed in episode 2.
Arya: Like season 6 of the show.
Bran: Like season 6 of the show.
Sansa: She is making preperations in the south to take over winterfell. She learned her skills more. She learn to manipulate LF to help her take back her home. At the end of the season she helps Jon take back the her home.
Dany: Tyrion Dany meeting will happen at the beginning of the season. What we saw in 5×09 should happen halfway through the season. 6×04. Her story ends with her getting hold on the Dothraki.
Tyrion: His season 6 storyline, except 6×08/6×09 and 6×10
Sam: His season 6 storyline. Maybe even a bit more home drama.
Theon: He and Yara reunite when she had fled south. Maybe even like the books have her being a captive of Stannis. They decided to go to Dany. They set sail East at the end of the season. Maybe even a scene where they are in Volantis.
Brienne: Brienne Jaime romance. They split. Brienne and Sansa meet here at the end. And Brienne pledge her sword.
Jaime: Jaime is being asked back to KL because a new enemy is taken on shore in Westeros and is ready to attack the capitol. He runs back to Cersei but he finds the same outcome we saw at the end of 6×10.
Cersei: Same as season 6.
Iron Islands: Euron getting stronger and runs havoc in the reach.
Dorne: Having the dorne plot being executed on screen like the books. Fire and blood. Doran’s plan is revealed.
Griff: 6×04: he arrives in the stormlands. He gain control over the Stormlands. And receive a letter that Dorne wants to work with him. Only on one condition. If Arianne will marry Griff.
kevin1989,
There’s a reason Martin is having such a hard time finishing his books. The story he’s written has become a convoluted mess and he’s clearly written himself into a corner. D&D absolutely made the right decision when they chose to focus more on the already established characters rather than add dozens of new ones. And sure, they could have started a plot and then excise it if it didn’t work out, but they ended up doing that with Dorne and we saw how people reacted to that. Do you really think the show could have maintained its high quality if it had to do that 3 or 4 more times? Adding plots when you don’t know how relevant they will become is simply bad writing.
Mr Derp,
Yes, now I see. The other news outlets weren’t covering it last night.
kevin1989,
Season 7:
Jon: He will rule the north as King in the north. His priority is the defense against the White walkers. while Sansa is more concern for Cersei. both will need to find common ground.
Arya: Her story would have been going home. Very close to what we saw in season 7 in the show.
Bran: 7×01 like the show. 7×02/7×03 he is at Castle Black. 7×05 he arrives back home.
Sansa: Just like the show the season will end with the demise of LF but a more fleshed out 10 episode season was shown. We see Sansa out-manouvre LF and getting her pieces together. We see her getting scheming with Royce and Arya. No shock-vallue, good old got drama.
Sandor arrives at the end of the season in Winterfell with the BwB.
Dany: Dany have visions about Westeros, being warned about betrayals, and about the northern treat. Battle of Merreen at the beginning of the season with the help of Yara. We see her getting everything in place in Westeros to move west. around episode 7 she decided to go West. 7×07 We see her on a boat before the doom of Valyria. 7×09 Arrival on dragonstone. 7×10 Preparations for battle but she gets a visit from Mellisandre. This confirmed her visions, she make it known that she will go north, not south.
Sam: Fully fleshed out Oldtown storyline.
Dorne/Griff/Cersei Jaime: Battle between the two. Cersei loses at the end of the season. She dies with Jaime.
Iron Islands: Euron ends the season with the horn of Winter which will resurrect a ice Dragon. Destroying the wall.
Season 8: Can even be a shorter season of 6. All about the battle against the WW. Dany arriving north, with her army. Love between Jon and Dany will begin. Powerplay between Sansa and Dany. The battle against the WW. The battle itself in 8×04 and 8×05 in winterfell. Before we see Castle black being destroyed and another Castle. 8×06 Is the after party + Jon bowing to Dany + Bran and Sam learning the truth at the end of the season. And Dany destroying the Iron Islands all in flame. Griff gets the love of the people is being shown.
Season 9: Dany vs Griff vs Jon. 9×04 Dany destroys KL. 9×05 Death of Dany. 9×06 What will happen after.
Mr Derp,
I see, yesterday it wasn’t getting news-feeds in google other then yahoo. But in this day and age when fake-news is all around it, I’m a bit taken back when only 1 source is online. Now there are more.
I have pretty much the same feelings. Here’s my (somewhat) abbreviated thoughts.
Episode 1 was meh, but wasn’t that bad. My favorite part of the episode was the end at the Umbers. Everything else was rather forgettable.
Episode 2 was pretty great, even though not much really happened. It’s one of those “quiet episodes” that’s a breath of fresh air in a show that has so much going on all the time. Jaime knighting Brienne was one of my favorite scenes of the entire season.
I actually enjoyed episode 3, even though it seems like a lot of others didn’t. I had no issue with Arya killing the NK, and I had no issue with the brightness, but I do have my nitpicks with the episode. I honestly thought Theon’s death scene was unintentionally comical. The way Bran was just like “hey thanks for everything Theon, you can go die now” and he was just like “yea, you’re right, I can totally go die now! Here I come NK, GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” It just felt kind of cheesy to me.
Also, the WW were built up as this great threat to Westeros, but they were completely defeated after their first major battle with another army. I just found that to be incredibly lame and it left a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the season. However, overall, I thought the positives completely outweighed the negatives in this episode.
Episode 4 was where things started falling apart for me. This was the “Eastwatch” of season 8. During the war council meeting, Euron’s fleet is mentioned, but somehow, according to D&D, they “forgot about the Iron Fleet”, which is how Rhaegal died. I mean, you’ve got to be kidding me. They couldn’t come up with a way for Rhaegal to die that didn’t make everyone look like a buffoon? There are a number of other issues I had with this episode, but I’m not going to bother mentioning them.
I also really enjoyed episode 5 even though I absolutely hated Dany’s heel turn. It’s not that it wasn’t foreshadowed. It just didn’t feel believable or earned to me. I won’t get into detail as this dead horse has been beaten to a pulp already, but I really wish D&D didn’t have Dany go “mad” and kill thousands of innocent civilians after she already won. It was really, really out of character for Dany. I keep hearing that she snapped or whatever at that moment because she realized that the common people of KL weren’t ready to embrace her as their liberator and that’s when she lost it. However, I was under the impression that she had already resigned to ruling by fear at that point, so it shouldn’t have bothered her to the point of snapping. But I digress.
The series finale was ok. I didn’t hate it or like it. I actually thought it was strangely…I dunno…bland? I liked the beginning of the episode when Tyrion found his siblings in the rubble. That was an emotionally powerful scene. Same with Drogon nudging Dany to see if she was still alive. That had me feeling all the feels. Greyworm turning into a murderer was a bit odd to see as well, but it was what it was. We’ve come to care for him over the previous 6 seasons only to see him turn into a douche in the very last episode. It doesn’t mean it’s bad writing or anything like that. I mean, I get it, but don’t ask me to like it. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.
It also pissed me off a bit that Jon STILL went along with what Dany was doing until Tyrion finally convinced him that Dany had to be stopped. I mean, I know Jon “knows nothing”, but did they have to make him THAT stupid?
The entire dragonpit scene just felt off. Tyrion going from on trial for treason to suddenly deciding the next king of Westeros was jarring.
In the end, I was ok with season 8 probably until the very end of episode 3 when it turned out the WW were really nothing more than a side distraction and were wiped out in their very first full-scale battle with the living. Subsequently, everything just kind of fell apart for me with episodes 4-6. I think my biggest complaint is that so many characters had to become complete morons in order to check off the boxes that D&D needed to check off. I still respect them for their work and appreciate all they’ve done, but I think they could’ve done better.
kevin1989,
I don’t trust yahoo either, but when I see an article with quotes and such I tend to believe it. Any news site would open themselves up for a lawsuit if they used quotes that never happened. Articles that paraphrase or are pure speculation are different.
Mr Derp,
I read it, and hear the podcast. I find it strange that she answer it without answer it really. She says she liked that Arya killed the NK, but she didn’t like 4 till 6. But she didn’t say what. Was it Dany, was it something else. Was it about Cersei not being a big villain as we though she was. I would like to know her arguments. But her wording about choices made me feel it was about Dany turning Dark instead of being the Hero, so a WHAT happened. Or is it more that she like the what happened but not how we got there.
But 2 things also got my eye. Why would you rant to your boyfriend because of an ending of a show, until the point he needs to leave the boat, I hope she exaggerate here.
And she was already couple of wines in before she started to binge-watch the season. I don’t know how good she can hold liquor but if I’m even 2 glasses of wine in when I watch a show like GoT I wouldn’t know half the things happening on screen. I think GoT is a show to watch sober with an eye on every detail.
But I’m really wondering what she meant with choices. The what-choices or the how-did-we-get-there-choices.
kevin1989,
She might have simply been expressing her opinion rather than trying to make an argument to convince others to agree with her, but I couldn’t say.
Every GoT actor has a different opinion, just like everyone else.
To be fair I haven’t really heard people who loved the ending really explain what was so great about it either. I think sometimes people just feel how they feel and don’t really care about justifying it through other people’s perspective.
Mr Derp,
That’s true.
For me why I liked season 8 was that it was the season I though Dany was the most interesting. Her scenes were brilliant. Her exchange with Jon in 4×04 for instance, it showed a lot. And her feelings when Theon hugged Sansa in 8×02. The emotions in episode 5 with Arya moving through the ruins of Kings Landing, it made me feel like I was really there. Seeing that mother and daughter not making it made me feel sad. Which for me is good if a one-episode-character can make me feel that. Her showing her true colors which I already suspect was there since season 1 was shown in a brilliant way (for me). It shows how far she would go to having power (to execute her road to paradise). It showed how people could be blind-sighted by her charisma and her view of a good world without knowing how she would achieve that, nobody ever though about that, how will she do that? Same as real life. We all want to follow a leader for defending our life-styles, but we don’t know how they achieve that do we? I liked her end scene with Jon it was in a horrific way beautiful and shattering at the same time. Only talking about Dany’s side here. What made this also for me amazing in a sense is the two sides we saw of Dany, the one with power and the one without. Without power we saw a woman who had her heart in the right place, looking for home, we want to be free of her brother’s tyranny. Who we felt could do some good, who could probably have been a good mother. Then we saw her with power and how that changed her, yes her changes were minimum in season 2 till 7. But even if you watch closely you see that it does nothing good for her as a person. Every season she acts darker. Which in the end we saw how that ended up. We could sense a “what-if”, what if she didn’t posses that power, didn’t have her dragons, who would she have been. Her life was tragic, first because of others, later because of herself. And aren’t we in the end our own worst enemy? Especially if we posses power.
Jon next comment because of losing comments.
kevin1989,
Jon. For me his arc was also a tragic one. Love and duty. The one he was warned about in season 1. He fought in season 3 and 4. Which resulted in him bringing everyone together fighting the WW which he succeeded. He even left the NW because he was done with duty, he was chosen again to choose duty. He made a choice in season 7 to choose love once again. Which in the end resulted again with him choosing love against love. Love of the family with duty against the love of Dany. And in the end he chose to be punished again, and even when it feels that Bran punished him in the end he was free. He became King beyond the wall, but that is not filled with duty, because there are no rules north of the wall. He finally is free of duty. Free of the guilt he felt by being a bastard of Ned. Free of the burden his past had on his siblings. Free in the north where he wants to be. For me that’s more important than him being the chosen one. Character driven storylines interest me more then plotbased storylines.
choosing a couple of minor before entering major characters again in next post. Sorry for the many comments but afraid of losing comments.
Sam: He has love with a family in the end, and he has his love of his favorite job in the end win win.
Bronn: How is this not a happy ending for him? Personally I disliked his season 8 storyline which didn’t serve no purpose, his end scene was the one we could have and it would have been enough. It was a waste of storytime.
Thormund: How could we not love thormund in season 8. For the resolution of his love with Brienne, to his friendship with Jon. Back where he wants to be.
kevin1989,
Arya: I don’t think this needs to have any explanation. Right ten bears? Maybe best ask him. For me Arya ended how she should have ended. With the only righteous way of using her abilities. Destroying the NK. With abandoning her lust for revenge in the end and choosing life. Having her defend her family in the end, and having a good relationship with her alive siblings. And going after he dream she spoke of since season 6. Going west.
Bran: A difficult one. I expected more of his powers to come into play with defeating the NK. Even just one minor flashback scene would have been enough for me. But he did help in a sense. I did not have a single problem with Bran becoming king, because I didn’t want it to be Jon, poor Jon shouldn’t be forced to be King. And his truth already destroyed to much, it would only have divided Westeros, and destroyed Jon inside. So that left for me Bran and Sansa from becoming king queen of the 7K. Bran wouldn’t mind. He even would have been useful in the end with his powers. I like many would only have liked maybe a better storyline beforehand to make the “it made sense that Bran is it, isn’t it?” to “of course it’s Bran how did I not see that, dumb me”
Brienne: I liked how her story ended. She finally deserve the respect and love she deserved with being a knight and being a woman. two issues resolved for her, and both by Jaime the one she loved. And she learned from it that she deserved to be desired as a woman while being a knight. All her scenes from the past came together in this season.
Sandor: His story came to an end how it should have been.
kevin1989,
Sansa: From naive little girl. To a woman with lot’s of insight in others. She learned, became clever and outsmarted it. She even understood how important family is. Compare her bond with Jon and Sansa with her season 1 counterpart and you see she learned a lot about that. She has learned to forgive, to love, to care for others. And she finally became queen in the end what she always wanted. But not for herself but for her people. Which made Sansa’s character building even more worthwhile.
Tyrion: For me this sums up with, complicated family love, he loved Jaime but also Cersei even after what she did. He loved her. And his love for his family was torn with his love for Dany. In the end his family won. Unfortunate only after his family died. And in the end he ended with what he does best. helping ruling. His whole storyline can be summed up with “hand of the King”. But for me what I liked most about his ending was that it showed how much love can blind you. And that he was ready to die (episode 5) if that meant that a city could survive. He grow as a character.
Davos was honest to his character till the end: Only disliked not seeing his wife. Damn Davos, give your wife some attention.
Missandei: she died how she lived through the show, as Dany’s second hand.
Grey worm: Not so happy about this, he survived. Disliked him very much in the end.
Did I forget any minor characters worth mentioning?
Jaime and Cersei: I liked their ending already said many times why. It was true to both of their characters. It made me feel for Cersei. It was poetic. Cersei being crushed by the building in which she possessed power. That ending was for me perfect. What I didn’t like was 2 things. 1. I wish that episode 4 was split in 2 episodes that Jaime’s part would have felt more like a storypart. And 2. Same as 1 but then with Cersei, I wished more scenes with Cersei. They could have upped it a bit before the battle. Having her motives that she did this for her child being told by Cersei not by Tyrion. But I was happy with the ending.
Euron: Yikes. Pilou did it’s best. He is an amazing actor. But it felt a bit like Doran Martell. A character that could have been one of the best of the whole saga, but ended up being in the bottom half. And both actors could have delivered it.
May I ask why WotW continues to ignore or disregard interviews with Alfie Allen?
He’s been interviewed this week by Indiewire and Mashable and he said some pretty sweet things about Gwen but also about his years as Theon, season 8, and the Emmys.
He’s hardly said a word to the press (actually he’s literally not said a word to the press prior to season 8) and now that he’s an Emmy nominee it would be nice to create some hype around him here too (or at least share or link to interviews with him as well.) I’d hate to think that WotW are biased when it comes to the actors.
singedbylife,
Oh thank you for letting us know, I’ll look them up! He’s a relatively rare interview. 😊
Young Dragon,
Reallly. Im the youngest in my family so I get being left out now and again, but this is a Stark child! Why wouldn’t they say anything after he was killed? Tho I would have loved it if he had a chance to talk back to Ramsey; he had to have known he wa going to be killed anyway…
Mr Derp,
Oh I so agree. That battle should have been later on, with more places affected. Its such a huge plot from the first episode – to end it so quickly and so locally didn’t do it justice.
kevin1989,
Enjoyed your ideas, lots to think about. I suspect we will see (if we haven’t all ready) many more rewrites. Just gets me thinking what a difference it would have been if George had just finished the book, or at least shown them what he had written so far. Think lot of the mistep of the last two seasons would have been fixed if he did. Ah well.
ash,
I think many things would have been added if George have finish the books. If D&D knew where the story of Eagon, stoneheart, Arianne etc were going in the books and in the story, I think they had a better understanding why those stories were needed or important or even make the story more interesting. Just as me, I’m just speculating what I think will happen with Aegon, so I can see why they omitted it. What we saw in Dance could be given and was given to Dany herself.
kevin1989,
Aegon/Griff was introduced far too late in the books, no matter where he’s going. Poor structuring. The same with the Greyjoy uncles, and given that Euron was retained for the show, we should have at least heard more of him far earlier than we did.
I am always surprised if anyone thought Brienne had a good story.
She started out in love with a Renly – man that did not love her back as she wished and who died. She ended the story in love with a man that did not love her back as she wished and who died. She told Pod a painful story of rejection by boys that she thought liked her, then she had to go through a bigger rejection in the courtyard at Winterfell. In her career, she started as a bodyguard to a warm man she loved (Renly) and ended as a bodyguard to a cold chap (Bran who will likely treat her the way he treated Meera). Her last two GOT scenes were painful. She was made to write a love doodle to a guy that slept with her and then dumped her. Her last written line was about him prefering to die with another woman instead of living with her. (They could have made her start her own page instead.) Her last scene was a talk about brothels vs ships suggesting that she still does not get the importance of sexuality in life as she sits there a member of a celibate order. She may never go back to Tarth and could spend her days entombed in Jaime’s old job. Geez, how much worse could it get for Brienne?
“All I knew was I had an extreme emotional connection to her. I wanted to play this part because, for me as an actor, I felt like this was a character with something to say, that allowed me to speak my truth.. When the job started, I was so grateful for it, just to go through the process and see all these things about myself that I had always, frankly, been ashamed of — my height, my size, scars on my face, my position in the world as a woman, what I believed in — and face all those things, and expose myself.”
I just love how connected and dedicated Gwen was towards Brienne. In all the articles which have featured Gwen, her artistry and the devotion she brought to her role really came through. I do hope either she or Maisie win the Emmy. Although, I worry another Weeds / SATC thing might happen. I haven’t watched either of the shows but during the Emmys when all the actresses of Sex and the City were nominated, the lone Mary-Louise Parker won instead. I mean, Killing Eve is wonderful and Fiona Shaw is a fantastic actor as well.
I totally understand Ms. Watts’ brother! “HBO made her an offer she could not refuse” that’s the quote I was looking for lol
Anyone got any idea how long it usually takes for a pilot to be reviewed and the 1st season green lighted?! Jeez, the long wait is terrible and we’ve got practice with Asoiaf books so that’s saying something.
Gosh, I remember hearing about the ASIOF series possibly being adapted to a tv series – tthink it wasn’t too long after that it got green lighted? Then it seemed to take forever for it to start but we were all thrilled with castings and bits and pieces it seemed to go fast. Someone probably knows exact dates, but it didn’t take long IMHO
From another website in 2010
“HBO has ordered a season of Game of Thrones! This news comes via James Hibberd at the Live Feed for THR. Congratulations, to the producers, cast, and crew who were able to make this happen, and many thanks to the executives who made the call. It’s been a long journey for fans, for GRRM, David and Dan, and everyone else—it’s good to see them hit the mark.”
Premeir was a year later
ash,
That was actually quick then! I wasn’t into GoT till second season ended I think. I wasn’t going to let my precious books be spoiled by some lousy half assed TV adaptation that wasn’t going to do justice to Martin’s universe, you know… who knew it would turn out so well. I must say I was super pleasantly surprised.
Grandmaester Flash,
I have to disagree, many characters in many sagas are introduces late in game and stay there till the end. For instance Tonks in Harry Potter. Book 5 of the 7 (Same as AsoIaF and even Aegon is sooner if you think about that book 5 and 6 happened at the same time, so first plan was book 4, halfway through). Lestrange, Luna Lovegood also characters in book 5 not earlier and all endgame characters in that saga.
The big players of Lotr also were introduced just before half of the story. For instance Faramir who had a big role in the last movie was introduced halfway in two towers. Halfway into the saga.
Or for instance LOST another big show. Many important characters for the endgame were introduced in season 3 and 4. Even the one where the show was about Jacob was introduced at the end of season 3, and not shown until the end of season 5. (And if you count the episodes that character was introduced (and not shown) around 70% of the story Aegon would have been sooner)
And even looking at GoT. Some big characters were introduced in season 6 for the endgame. The northern lords. Or the NK who was introduced just before halfway into the series.
Aegon is not to late introduced in book 5 because the groundwork for it was already there in book 1. The set-up was there, the pay-off in book 5. There’s a reason why George wrote that background of Aegon in such a mysterious way.
And if you count book 4 and 5 as one big book which was George initial plan. Aegon is introduced around 40/50% of the total amount of reading material. People tend to forget that that was George plan first, and that’s how I read the books. And also that book 1 and 2 weren’t that big of a novels. And 3 and 5 were, and 6 and 7 are going to be as big as those 2 books, and maybe even a 8th book is planned. And if that’s the case, Aegon is even introduced before the 40% into the books. Long enough for endgame if you asked me.
Didn’t Tonks die in the last book?
Mango,
I think you miss the whole point of that character, and why that ending is perfect. You give me the notion that Brienne only can be happy if an external being, Jaime, Renly etc give her the feeling that she can be loved. That has nothing to do with being whole as a human being. And going through life to only being happy if others give you that validation is not a way of living. The whole story of Brienne as you stated was painful, her past, not because how others treated her. No because of how she looked at herself. She saw herself as a woman who can’t be desired, she hated her body, herself. She also didn’t recognize her skills and strength as a knight. Remember how she asked Podrick for validation in 8×02, she didn’t believe in herself that she was worthy. And then Jaime let her see that she could be desired as a woman, that she could be looked up too as a knight. Yes he left her for Cersei again, deep down she already knew that was going to happen even before that relationship started. But what changed what made her ending happy? In the end she found validation of being a woman and a woman who can be desired by others, that she is not that “ugly woman” she always saw herself, in the end she could see herself as a “beautiful woman”. And she finally recognized her own strength as a knight, and she was rewarded for it.
In the end it doesn’t matter how others perceive you, that validation isn’t going to make you happy, that validation wasn’t going to make Brienne happy and a whole person. What was going to make her happy and whole (like every person), if you can get that from yourself, loving yourself, finding yourself desirable, have faith in your own strength and skills. If a person only can get that from others, he or she will never be happy.
And look back at the end and look at the characters who loved themselves and could recognize their own strength, who turned out to end good and who bad? Arya can get that feeling from herself, and doesn’t want that recognition from others, she became a whole person with a purpose. Sansa the same. Bran the same, brienne the same. Bronn, podrick, sam etc all fall in that category. Jon was inbetween, that’s why he was half broken, half happy in the end. And Dany needed that validation from others the whole time, if others admired her she was somebody. Cersei also the same, only cersei wanted to be admired not by love like Dany but by wealth. Jaime wanted also that recognition from others, and he couldn’t live with himself all ended up not so happy ending.
Mr Derp,
Does that matter? Dany died in the last season and I think she was a endgame character.
Harry became godfather to her child and in the end raised him. So I think that Tonks was very important for endgame.
ps. with stayed in the end I didn’t mean live or die, but important for the endgame, the last part of the story. So sorry if I didn’t say it that well.
kevin1989,
In earlier your post you said that Brienne wanted love and respect and she got both from Jaime. I do not quite understand how you now are saying that I am the one saying the Brienne is dependent on external validation.
I agree with some of your comments on loving yourself. Self-love is required in life to sustain you so are not dependent and unable to face life alone. But you miss a great deal if you do not value and want the love of others – your partners, your family and freinds. Love is given and received and we must be open and vulnerable to giving and receiving love..it is a precious and wonderful thing.
I cannot tell from the story that Brienne knew Jaime would go back. I do not remember any thing she said or did that would make me believe that. Those two understood each other so one may assume that. Jaime’s storyline/arc is one that the critics have ripped the show about – we could rehash it here or not. Unlike many here, I have read these critical reviews for many reasons and over many years – and value their feedback. They get it!
TormundsWoman,
A bunch of us on Readerville (online book group, sadly defunct) were sweating bullets and crossing fingers that it would not suck. Oh man we were all cheering! interesting as time went on since we were all book readers, we had different takes on changes, but that started some interesting conversation)
ash,
Hah, the book community was always protective of Asoiaf. It was a good ride and a tremendous series.
Mango,
As for what I meant with, she wanted love, was more that she wanted to be desired, and get the feeling in herself that she was worthwhile, at the end of the show, she felt like she deserved to be loved, she is worthwhile and also that her skills that she worked for finally got the appreciation she deserves. With Brienne it was always about not appreciating herself, she find herself the ugly big woman that nobody wanted, she was good in something that she wasn’t suppose to be. In the end she knew that she deserved both.
As for the love part. You’re right it’s important to get that from others, alone is just alone, but still she gets love, from Pod and others, maybe not the romantic love but love comes in different kind of shades. There’s a reason why people say you can be better single than in a horrible relationship. And in the end she loved Jaime, I don’t think she wants another relationship, she got what she wanted. And we knew that she have given it a place, she can move on. Her writing that book made that clear, somebody who is still torn about their ex can’t write that sane as she did there. She closed the book and moved on.
And don’t forget that in the end, it doesn’t matter if others love you or not, if you don’t love yourself, than it doesn’t matter if they love you at the end of the day you’re not happy. And I’m happy for Brienne that she finally loved herself in the end.
When you said endgame I thought you meant until the very end and Tonks didn’t make it to the end. I get what you’re saying now.
I’m always so impressed by how invested she is in her character. I’d really love to see her win.
kevin1989,
Lots to agree with here (in your last post, I forgot to hit quote instead of reply!).
Jaime both desired and loved Brienne. So at least she did get that.
(Let us pretend that the Season8 ended at Episode 4.25 for these two before the nighttime dramatics. They could have made him leave WF in a loving manner that honored their connection and still honored his responsibilities in the south. There was no need to dirty/reduce/smash the tenderness in their connection. I think the GOT8 just wanted nothing to matter.)
Reading this back now (I never had an email notification that this was published at the time) I wonder if Naomi Watts knew the prequel was going to be cancelled? I mean filming finished early July, we knew end of July it was in heavy editing then radio silence until last night. Presumably there was some negative feedback and back and forth about whether it could be resolved prior to HBO green/red lighting it.
Ps. All praise to Gwendoline, I don’t want to over look that:) Not sure if I missed the Emmy results as I’ve not kept on top of Watchers Articles in recent months but I hope she is recognised.
Just curious did you know the pilot was potentially getting cancelled at this point? I haven’t been keeping up on the news like I did with GOT so only saw late last night the official cancellation from HBO which came as a big shock to me.
What she is saying probably ties to the hate which didn’t start until the end of the Long Night. For what ever reason people hated Arya killing the Night King rather than Jon that seemingly tipped people who jumped on the vocal minority.