The lineup for this Friday’s Game of Thrones panel at San Diego Comic Con just got a little less full, according to an official announcement from HBO.
Showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, celebrated director Miguel Sapochnik, and actors Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont) and Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei) will no longer appear on the Hall H panel.
No reason is cited for their cancellation in the tweet.
The #GoTSDCC panel taking place Friday, 7/19 at 5:30PM in Hall H will now consist of panelists @Maisie_Williams, @RaleighRitchie, @nikolajcw, @isaac_h_wright, @johnbradleywest, @liamcunningham1 & Conleth Hill.
Follow our ravens for updates.
— Game of Thrones (@GameOfThrones) July 17, 2019
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark), Jacob Anderson (Grey Worm), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), and Conleth Hill (Varys) will still be attending, according to the announcement.
Just yesterday, Game of Thrones picked up a record number of Emmy nominations for the final season of the show, with nominations for Sapochnik, Coster-Waldau, and Williams, among the many nods.
Portions of the fandom have gotten remarkably toxic during and since the airing of the final season, seeming to take pride in coordinating public attacks on the writers/producers of Game of Thrones. It wouldn’t be a surprise if Benioff and Weiss and some actors felt unsafe at SDCC.
On the upside, I saw very mature, intelligent discussions about season 8 happen at Con of Thrones, where people were able to debate the merits and dissenting opinions about the season and characters in a respectful fashion throughout the weekend. This fandom is mainly full of good people, and I believe the good still far outweighs the bad.
Maisie!!!
Good on them. David and Dan don’t owe this fandom a single thing anymore. Thank you for the marvelous 8 seasons and the most groundbreaking TV of all time. Season 8 was gripping from start to finish and I’ve never been so moved by 6 hours of television every. An all time great season. Now go get those Emmy’s and ride off into the sunset! We will never see your like again.
Well said jack. Very well said. Quote of the year regarding season 8 and the whole series
That’s too bad that fans won’t get to hear from D&D and Sapochnik. But the panel is great whenever Maisie Williams is there. Liam Cunningham and John Bradley also give great interviews. Conleth Hill may get questions about how his character ended, since he showed his emotions so clearly during the table read.
Is it possible there just is a scheduling conflict for D&D and Sapo? I’m not sure if it’s to avoid the fans. These fans are usually very excited to see the people involved in the show. They may have some tough questions for them, but I’m guessing they would be respectful and appreciative of the amazing show that was produced since 2011. In person super fans are alot different than anonymous posters on the Internet.
Shame about Iain, he’s a sight for sore eyes (and ears!). And Nathalie, queen of so many hearts. Sigh. Not surprised re: D&D as I don’t imagine they feel like answering questions. *shrug* Get Rory back in there!!!!!
Conleth Hill’s answers will be far more interesting than anyone else’s anyway.
Can we get a surprise appearance by the wee toasty lady?
Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahaaaaa loser d&d
It’s quite possible D&D stepped back because they didn’t want to put the others in a difficult position. The voices on some Reddit’s are pretty violent.
Good questions. But there’s some organised and aggressive toxicity on the Internet so perhaps it’s for the best that the gents with answers won’t be there. The fans actually attending will no doubt have a wonderful time and embrace the panel.
BTW, your recent comments about the white horse being connected with Sandor were very interesting. IMO, the physical parallel between Sandor’s face and the horse was spot-on. Also, Arya’s was ‘given’ a white horse in 4S4E1, but both rode for vengeance to KL on totally black horses. And both faced black and white decisions. Sandor saved her but sacrificed himself. (Only death pays for life!) At one point, both their struggles to get up from the ground were intercut–implying they were fighting for their lives concurrently.
When Arya came to surrounded by piles of charred remains, she probably thought of vengeance on Dany. Then she noticed the mother and child’s bodies and the burnt, BLACK horse toy. But then she heard the WHITE horse neigh. From black to white! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P361XXLaifI At 1.39 she was in black profile against white light, and then she moved towards the horse. And the horse gestured to her with his neck. Sandor had held her neck when he convinced her to leave. And she gently touches the horse’s white neck with her black gloved hand. By the way, on the soundtrack, there is a two-note ‘call’ in Arya’s final music that is also in faintly in Sandor’s final music…and both end in a slow version of the Main Title theme. Sandor’s music is called “Into the Fire,” and Arya’s is called “Believe.” I believe.
They got their Noms for HBO. No need to feed this project or its fans anymore. They have become good at cutting out before the job is truly complete. Watch out Star Wars.
“I doesn’t matter now”.
You know, I really respected them when I heard they were going to do this. Now this about-face not only reverses that, but makes me feel worse about them then before. I don’t buy that their life is in danger. If you want to see someone whose life was in danger, it was me on this site when I was posting dissenting opinions during S6!
Portions of the fandom have gotten remarkably toxic during and since the airing of the final season,
So very very true, unfortunately. Now that David & Dan won’t be appearing, I do wonder if this will lead to a more interesting panel with the actors, in that they might be more open and honest about aspects they did not like about season 8. Thinking about Conleth’s reaction to his death during the table read during the Last Watch.
Pigeon,
Bahahahaha! She and Andy were my faves. But honestly- a Tesco tiger loaf is the BEST!
I know! I loved Andy, and how happy he was when Kit accepted the jacket from him and wore it. 😆 Honestly, I felt for him when it was all over, as much as any of the cast! I wonder if he’ll manage to squeak into the prequel, wouldn’t that be fun. “Hey, isn’t that the guy…..” 🤪
While I do not consider Season 8 nearly as well written as say Seasons 1-4 and consider it a pretty large disappointment, none of that is reason for attacking any of the creators or even actors. If that is the reason D&D and others do not want to do panels anymore, that’s just a sad reflection of the state of society.
Shame on you people! Shame! Shame! Shame!
…… i was seriously excited about hearing what they have to say. not gonna lie i am one of those toxic fans, but i still have a tremendous respect for them. now i really wish they win the emmy tbh.
DnD sorry, i still love you guys. hope for a great things in the future
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Did you actually receive a life-threatening message on this site, Brian? If so, did you report it to the mods? Or are you taking dramatic licence? I found my way to this site’s predecessor some time after the showing of season 3 of GoT. There have always been dissenting opinions – people who knew the books being disappointed if a character they liked was cut, or taking a character in a different direction. I can’t remember all your comments. You are of course absolutely entitled to dislike something another person may have liked but have your comments been dismissive or demeaning or belittling of other folks’ points of view, which might have provoked somebody to snap back? I do think that threatening peoples’ lives over a dramatisation of a work of fiction is inappropriate (not blaming Brian for that).
I’m grateful for Messrs Benioff and Weiss for bringing GoT to the small screen and would not have read the books (which I mostly liked) if I hadn’t been exposed to the dramatisation.
They should come on Con of Thrones next year.
TOIVA,
Oh give it a break. They’ve made millions off of GOT. They can at least man up and answer a few questions for an hour.
Pigeon,
Yes! Definitely hoping Andy remains an extra!
Dame of Mercia,
To be fair, I have personally seen a comment saying “go kill yourself” and similar comments on here, but they were indeed deleted and usually those users are banned by the MODs. A familiar pattern I see is the comments on here are usually civil (not necessarily in agreement with each other – that would be boring) during the “off-season” and the more volatile/toxic comments pick up right before and during a GoT season. But this last season might be an exception…
This is what is now called “subverting expectations.” Ha,ha,ha, ha, ha!
I’m sure they were shaken by fear of facing members of the “small internet minority” and the few paltry haters of the “small vocal minority” which detested their season 8 renderings. It would take a lot of man to “man up” to that.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I love your observations. I haven’t re-watched yet. I was waiting a little longer and I was going to re-watch the entire series again. I do see what you’re saying and it makes the ending of “The Bells” even more meaningful. I wonder if we’ll ever get to see the actual scripts from season 8. I’m not sure if “The Bells” was ever put on paper and they had an app that deleted it from the tablets they were using. I know that some of the directors like Nutter still liked to use the paper scripts, but “The Bells” was Sapochnik. I would think there would be some direction in the script that would talk about how the horse would look similar to the Hound. I do love the theory and how you worked out the details so beautifully.
Reason enough to want to stay safe and put that money to use instead of potentially facing the idiots that no doubt were even threatening the guys.
If you consider the attacks they’ve had to endure fine, then you are part of the problem.
Pigeon,
Met Andy at the start of the month. He’s currently working in GOT exhibition tour in Belfast
Edo,
Also heard the voice of the girl in the documentary that kept swearing😂 she’s working at prequel
What threats? Source please. There are no threats or issues for their safety. Are they worried some reddit poster living 3,000 miles away is going to fly to San Diego, get tickets to a sold out event and rush up to punch them in the nose? Let’s not forget there would be lots of security around regardless. Nope. Face it, they checked out of GOT around season 6 and just want to get out of the way.
Ive never seen any of it but this BLOWS MY MIND!
Chump Force 1,
Sure, they clearly checked out. That’s why they spent more time filming seasons 7 and 8 than any other season. They clearly just wanted to get it over with. Makes perfect sense./s Posters like you can keep saying D&D became bored with the material, but it’s simply not based on any reality.
Young Dragon,
So true
LatrineDiggerBrian,
D&D are not your bitch and don’t owe you anything. I remember posters disagreeing with your opinions a lot, but I don’t remember any threats. If that did happen, I’m sorry, but there’s no way you received nearly as much verbal abuse as the showrunners, not even close.
I do not condone violent threats and they are unfortunate. I have not seen any death threats myself but if others have then it is regrettable.
I do not watch much TV so my next comments may be mistaken but I will forge ahead anyway.
Since its start, GOT was a series noted for the savagery of its violence (including violence against women). Even by regular cable standards (except for porn TV) I believe it “lowered the bar” for the use of coarse language (ie. the use of the c-word). I did not see any similar when GOT started but other TV programs may have done the same but none had such a broad audience.
To me, it is not surprising that its many of its fan base may be more tolerant of verbal expressions of violence without thinking through the implications in an actual “real-life” context. Many are younger (although the internet does not make age transparent) and may think it is OK. It is not.
If this angry language was in response to the failure of the “LoveBoat” I would be surprised given the type of that product. GOT is a series that many refused to watch or found disgusting because of violence and coarseness. One of the great legacies of GOT is the coarsening on TV. I loved it myself but it was never a “polite” endeavour. So here we are.
Didn’t Kit Harrington say D&D were rarely on set during S8? I think I heard him say that but I thought it was in jest. But then I also heard the same from elsewhere.
Mango,
Yeah, I’m sure they directed an episode not being on set.
I did not assert that they were never there. I just pointed out that Kit Harrington said they were rarely around.
Who knows? Maybe they were there every minute of the production and Kit was joking or too buzzed to tell.
“Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark), Jacob Anderson (Grey Worm), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), and Conleth Hill (Varys) will still be attending, according to the announcement.”
_______
Sounds like a perfect panel to me.
#VoteMaisie
#ASNAWP
#Kingslayer
#Fermented Crab
#TheVoiceInTheFlames
#BookThief
Bwahahahaaaaaa…
Seriously, I was looking forward to hearing what they had to say for themselves, how they’d address the myriad questions. So curious. In a way you’d think they’d want to do so already. Ah, well. “Not today,” I guess. The random handful of actors should still be fun and interesting to hear from. I’m especially glad that Conleth and Liam will be there.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I too am just loving your White Horse = Hound theory.
As disappointed as I am by D&D not showing up, I really can’t blame them and I’m sadly not that surprised. Some people really need a lesson on how to criticize respectfully and handle disappointment. i.e. The sense of entitlement of some people in fandoms is off the charts. Anger management wouldn’t hurt either.
Its amazing how many toxic fans think writing a rather mediocre (imo) few episodes at the end of a groundbreaking TV series is somehow the moral failing of the century.
We have hit a time where fandoms are becoming dangerous, entitled, insular cesspools of hatred. Its happening for everything, not just Game of Thrones.
Mango,
If I recall, that comment was made by Kit in season 7 when they were shooting in Iceland for the lake battle. Or it could have been during season 8 when they were shooting the battle at Winterfell. In any case, there are multiple units filming at the same time in multiple countries, so D&D can’t be everywhere at once, and as show runners they have a huge amount of responsibilities to attend do that don’t always include being on set.
Are we just assuming that if they’re not on set that they are off somewhere sipping margaritas? Why are we so intent on turning every possible piece of info into ammunition for how “bad” D&D are? Is it really that difficult to acknowledge that they worked just as hard on making this season the best it can be as anyone else even if it didn’t go the way you wanted?
It’s a shame D&D are not attending, hopefully it’s not due to threats or toxicity. The toxic, trolling, unabashed hate was mainly manufactured by others to damn the series by affecting fans observations and manipulation of their opinions. Very similar to con artist mega church preachers who are far from God even though the say they represent him, or political pundits who unabashedly spew hatred and falsehoods about others and manipulate their supporters into falling in line with party policies.
All facets of the final season were at or above GoT standards, could it have gone 10 episodes, yes, but what the viewers witnessed was still one of the greatest seasons (series) in television history. This is due to the excellence and professionalism of all involved, in front of and behind the camera.
OT, sorta, I am rooting for an Arya spinoff, similar in format to Luther, where we get a 4-5 episode story arc, every three years
Large part of fandom has this almost pathological relationship with Benioff and Weiss where it seems they are enjoying being offended and disrespected by them.
And the only reason they want Benioff and Weiss to speak is to feel even more offened. They enjoy being victimized and imagining D&D as some sort of evil monsters.
These people developed similar type of unhealthy obsession with Rian Jonhson and Brie Larson where they imagine things to be offended.
The only difference is that Benioff and Weiss refuse to engage and give them any sort of material to whine about. And ironically D&D’s silence makes them even more angry.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Mango,
I didn’t hear anything about that.
That’s because you’re doing all the talking for them 🙂 Ha, j/k.
Honestly, most of the people that are incessantly complaining about the ending and can’t let it go are a rather small minority of people. They just shout the loudest and that’s what generates clicks, so the media makes it seem like the toxicity is more rampant than it actually is. People fall for this crap all the time.
Yes, there are a number of mouthbreathers out there who go on social media to say dumb shit, but that’s only because they know that when it comes down to it, they won’t do anything in real life. It makes more sense to just ignore them and move on rather than feed them and validate their inability to control their emotions.
I work in tv (much smaller scale) and even in my area you would be surprised what kind of crazy threats we both receive and have police warn us about. Even if they have the highest security in place, why risk it? Especially when the dust hasn’t even settled and people are still upset about a show that ended only months ago. Why also give the opportunity for some idiot to be an “internet hero” and say or do something drastic; even if they immediately get taken away, all the pics and videos that would surface on the internet would just escalate things and prolong the debate on both sides.
When, and if, the showrunners ever want to address reasons they made, let them do it in a more respectable environment, possibly an interview, and not from an event that, let’s be honest, can be very unpredictable.
It’s good to hear that Con of Thrones was so civil! I think the fandom is mostly respectable and it’s just a small percentage that are the most toxic.
I don’t blame them really-they don’t owe anyone anything. The fandom have been particularly entitled and toxic about the last season-and disrespectful to all those that worked on it. As for violent language being caused by a violent show-if thats the case the world is more fcuked than I thought.
Re Conleth, he made it almost to the end-understandably he was upset that it was an end but do people think he was really upset to not make it all the way through? It was always likely to happen and he missed out on what, two episodes?
J Ax,
You’re an idiot and that’s all that needs to be said .
I would love to be their PR. I would’ve done it for free lol
Mango,
Someone on reddit did make compilation of calls for violence, death and other forms of harrasment. They are almost completely dehumanized on that site.
Mango,
Or maybe you’re just making things up to suit your viewpoint, wouldn’t be the first time anyway, that’s all you’ve been doing since forever . You’re not any different than the alt right people, just constantly pulling quotes out of context or straight up inventing things without any sort of shame or dignity .
mau,
But hey they did that one good thing with Emilia Clarke’s donation and that certainly erases any bad things they have done or are continuing to do, because that’s how the world works right?/s
mau,
It is called nerd rage gone wrong, mixed with a few spoons of male fragility and millennial entitlement syndrome.
mau,
This type of shit is also going on right now in the POKEMON online fandom of all things lol…
If this is how fans of a children’s video game can act…
No one is safe
1) I do not recall the exact time of Kit’s remarks.
2) Yes, I do not think that D&D would deliberately crash GOT at all. It would not be in their best interest to do so.
We may never know what happened. A few commenters have pointed out that D&D had run out of “book” and scripting was not their forte so they had to do their best. This is the best they could do! Others point out that maybe the book itself lacked some of the elements that would provide an emotionally satisfying end.
3) There is a lot of inappropriate behavior everywhere. If you go to soccer, football and baseball stadiums you sometimes see fans get really irate. The internet just makes it heightened – if you read all of it. The political arena is unreal in terms of public conduct! And by grown persons with real power!
Very sad.
has anybody heard the news about the anime studio in Kyoto that being burned by someone? there is 10 dead people and more injured.
i wonder if its an otaku who cant move on?
i wonder if this had to do with dan anf dave bailed at this event. lol
It should be a great discussion with a good panel. It seems that only NCW has been regularly heard from over the last few months. He seems to be quite willing to engage – brave lad like his character?. We saw Bronn, Gilly and Syrio recently, good to see others.
I think it’s brilliant! 👏🏻
As you stated, it only takes one disgruntled person to take it upon themselves to pull some sort of scene ( or an act of violence). Maybe there has been a threat made to them that hasn’t been publicized?
I can’t wait for the event videos to surface online!
One more voice for Maisie. Perhaps she didn’t have grand speeches like others but this young lady can act with her body language unlike anyone else. I saw the audition where she was with Sophie for the first time. I think it was one of the “D”s after the vid who spoke about the difficulty in casting for the Stark children, especially Arya as her journey was going to be so dark and violent. As soon as she opened her mouth and they saw how she used her whole self, they knew they had hit paydirt. Not bad for a first-timer!
Well said Tyjon. ITA with your comparisons and your idea of a spinoff.
HelloThere,
Why with Pokemon? lol
I saw that The Handmaid’s Tale reddit fandom turned to shit as well.
Danny,
Male fragility was really apparent with Star wars and Captain Marvel. And it almost happened with GoT when Arya killed NK.
mau,
Because Pokemon is nearing 1000 creatures and Nintendo has announced the latest game will not feature them all anymore lol.
So now the fandom has decided to attack and accuse the directors and developers of laziness and incompetence… and they have begun nitpicking every single tree texture and water ripple in the trailers for the latest game to prove their point lol….
MotherofWolves,
Exactly. Better to play it safe 🙂
Joey,
He is the most funny man I saw ever on a panel.
Roy,
Insulting somebody working on the show is forbidden on this site. So please cut it out. You can disagree with season 8 all you want but be respectful like for instance Mango.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Many stated on Reddit and on for instance 9gag death treats to D&D which could be executed if they were in public. (I would not expect it to happen, most are just keyboard warriors).
But how was your life in danger? We don’t know who you are in real life. So personally I wouldn’t worry about your life here.
raemontarg89,
You’re not one of those toxic guys, as your statement made clear. Probably just critical guy (or girl)
Dark Sister,
Comments like that are really toxic yes, luckily we have an amazing set of mods here.
Enharmony1625,
Their work is so much more, making schedules, making calls. Meetings with people for locations etc. Little free time.
kevin1989,
I recall that LDB was here from season 6 onwards complaining practically nonstop about how much he hated the last couple of seasons. The “Disney” and “Marvel” buzzwords were used quite a bit and it got to be very repetitive and annoying. I’m all for constructive criticism, but not repeating the same pop culture buzzwords over and over again. It has no meaning.
His comments were obviously not taken well and weren’t very popular, but LDB’s life was never in danger here. At least, not that I saw. He just enjoys being dramatic. I think he’s been better lately though.
Not that you were the one who said this, but I also think blaming “millenials” and “male fragility” for the negative GoT reaction is grossly oversimplifying things. To think that only young adults or one specific gender had negative reactions to the ending is absurd.
https://tenor.com/view/sansa-game-of-thrones-youre-spoiling-it-gif-3479851
I remember Benioff or Weiss in one of the DVD episode commentaries talking about casting Maisie Williams as Arya.
Along the same lines, here’s an excerpt from an interview of GRRM back in April, 2011. I wonder if even then they could’ve imagined how fabulous she’d turn out to be.
Casting Child Actors for GoT – Excerpt from April 15, 2011 Time Magazine: Interview of GRRM, Part 1 of 4
________________________
Excerpt
[Interviewer began by mentioning that he’d seen two episodes of the show at that point, and particularly liked the casting of the difficult children’s roles.]
GRRM: “The child actors were the hardest to fill because we looked at literally hundreds for the three major children’s roles. I mean, most child actors, well, you know, you see these kids and they’re kids, they’re not actors. Their triumph is that they’ve memorized the lines. And mommy and daddy are very proud that they’ve memorized the lines, but that’s all.
And then you’ve got the other extreme. You’ve got some kid whose obviously been told by mommy and daddy or by their school drama coach that part of acting is you have to emote. So those kids go to the other extreme and they emote all over the place, they’re rolling their eyes and they’re grimacing and they’re really going way over the top for everything and it’s completely unnatural.
So you watch all this stuff and you reach a point where you’re just ready to despair and say, ‘this can’t be done here’ because most child actors—a lot of child actors out there are in sitcoms. And their role in sitcoms is to mug and look cute, you know. Our kids have actual dramatic roles where they have to deal with grief and loneliness and anger and a lot of very adult stuff. [I thought] “my God, how the hell, are we going to do this”, you know?
But then you find that one in a hundred, or one in a thousand that suddenly… “oh my God, thank God, this is great.” And Maisie Williams, who plays Arya, was one of those. I mean, just from the moment we saw her audition, I knew she was, she was our Arya and you know, the same was true for Sansa and Bran; two good actors who played those roles too. They were extraordinary.”
***
Yes. I think a lot of people don’t have a true appreciation of how much work it is for them both to make this show and the huge array of responsibilities they have. They’ve said before that it is quite literally a full-year job, with a week or two break over Christmas.
Chump Force 1,
You’re clearly someone who has no idea how to live and act into the real world or how the world works at all, so because they made millions, hell they could have made billions, that means they have to face potentially some psychotic people in person ? I really wish you were in their position so you could understand that money doesn’t protect you from possibly being hurt by some dangerous loon .
Roy,
Hahahahaha, unintelligent 12 year old comment !
Since D&D are not coming all i want is an Inside the Episode for the finale. They ran one for every episode of every season except the finale. Not asking too much just to hear why they did something they way they did it without any fan questions or interference. Is that asking for too much?
mau,
It was incredible to see actually. I am not sure if a certain number of men have always had inferiority complexes but the combination of women trying to assert an equal place in society and the easy access to global and instant communication just opened the gates for these men to air their insecurities for everyone to see. And my lord are they oblivious to how awful they represent themselves. The hate on Rey and on Carol Danvers is unbelievable. Never mind that we are speaking about two characters who are gifted with supernatural powers (through no doing of their own, like Superman, Spiderman, Thor and Captain America) that would work equally on a man or a woman but because they are women they can’t be as strong as their male counterparts. And of course because Brie Larson is a woman, she is not allowed to have strong opinions, the douchy geeks would just rather she shut up and look pretty. Many on the free folk reddit page have given the same treatment to Sophie Turner by the way.
I was around too and never saw that.
Enharmony1625,
It’s probably all for the best that Benioff and Weiss aren’t showing up. Perhaps they figured their presence would be an unnecessary distraction.
All it takes is one bozo in the audience to try to stir up “D&D are hacks” vitriol, to take away from the celebration and enjoyment of the other attendees – and panelists.
Speaking only for myself, I prefer more time devoted to Maisie Williams (GoT MVP), and the always delightful Liam Cunningham, John Bradley, and Isaac Hempstead Wright. All are articulate and witty speakers.
I am so sorry to hear that. Many disagreed with you often, but this is usually a civil, respectful group, not given to ad hominen attacks. Although mud-slinging does sometimes emerge.
The physical threats were the first thing I thought of when I heard about the D&D withdrawal. Online, some sounded serious, most seemed to be said in jest, but mods had to warn posters to avoid them. Twice. A few weeks later, some still get through. Certainly, verbal and behavioural abuse are still being advocated. In that atmosphere, if anyone simply called in a violent threat, SDCC security and the GoT team would have to react accordingly. Tragically, in current society threats are often carried out.
Mango,
2) Yes, I do not think that D&D would deliberately crash GOT at all. It would not be in their best interest to do so. We may never know what happened. A few commenters have pointed out that D&D had run out of “book” and scripting was not their forte so they had to do their best. This is the best they could do! Others point out that maybe the book itself lacked some of the elements that would provide an emotionally satisfying end.
3) There is a lot of inappropriate behavior everywhere. If you go to soccer, football and baseball stadiums you sometimes see fans get really irate. The internet just makes it heightened – if you read all of it. The political arena is unreal in terms of public conduct! And by grown persons with real power!
Accusations abound that D&D and/or HBO or even GRRM sabotaged the show. Some fans: “Quick tempers, slow minds”. I agree with you, Mango. An additional possibility is that after seasons of divergence, D&D had to backtrack and/or ‘kinda forget’ some of their adaptational changes to arrive back at George’s Endgame.
Oh, the Internet–joy and bane of civilisation. Ugly behaviour has indeed increased and seems more tolerated by the public. Football hooliganism in England is much worse now. And when our leaders express abuse or condone it… ! BTW, the ‘brigading’ I mentioned in the other thread about Carice has resumed in at least one venue: https://np.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/ce0dqp/hell_no/etyaeor/
Yeah, I’d love to see Rory there. However. if there’s anyone who’s similar to his character, it’s Rory McCann: “I don’t like crowds.”
at 0:23…
S8e4, Sandor and Arya leave WF together
(TD misread your comments, sorry)
People are saying that there were no threats against them, not sure how they’d know that, but its reasonable to say they did.
Lets put it this way, we know for a fact that the actor who played Olli (and his family) had several, Sophie mentions the same and I think the actor who played Joffrey said the same. If people are unwilling to separate the actions of an actor from a make believe character in a fantasy tv show, then it doesn’t take much to assume that real life people such as D&D were getting them in spades. People have gotten insane and crazy, not just about GOT, but everything in life that makes them angry. Someone killed a kid at a gas station the other day because the kid was playing rap music and it made him ‘uncomfortable’. People are losing it and if D&D prefer not to show up to answer questions, I respect that. Im not sure I’d want to be in front of that audience.
here’s the quote I was looking for, missed the edit time;
MotherOfChickens,
Im not worried about tv shows, music, video games, comics cause violent language.. Im more worried that our country is lead by someone who thinks nothing of inciting anger and violence. The world I think is totally fucked up which is why I watch such a sweet gentle fantasy show like GOT 🙂
HelloThere,
!!!!!!!
David and Dan don’t need me to back them up… But still:
This show exists mainly thanks to them!
They’ve created beautiful TV with this show and memorable moments that will stand the test of time.
The fact that Season 8 left so many open questions and in many places lacked logic, is clear for me it was a conscious decision. It’s not a mistake, it’s on purpose.
I don’t like the idea of them explaining the show. The show should contain all the necessary explanations. It doesn’t, because they wanted it like this.
Re the fire at the anime studio – I had no idea that might have been caused by pokemon fans? god I hope not.
I teach preschoolers, and every now and again after reading a story I’ll ask them – could this really happen? We have some great little talks and I can see some of them start separating fantasy with reality (no I do not do this with Santa) Obviously some people never got the lesson
What I’m worried about are the people who cringe that Arya has sex, but they don’t bat an eye when she kills people. It’s amazing how much more squeamish people are at sex than violence.
There are some examples of people shooting up in a school or church or whatever place because someone else looked at them in a funny way or said something to them, especially in the US, most of the gun violence isn’t made by the terrorists or gangs but by simple people with mental health issues who are allowed to carry guns with no background or psychological tests whatsover, i’m not going to dwelve too much into the gun law issue in the US at the moment because it’s a controversial discussion and that’s not the point now but the fact of the matter is, you can’t take threats lightly nowadays just because it’s made by some random people on the internet, sure most of them are just pathetic keyboard warriors but you never know who may be a true psycho and it’s best not to risk that, especially when it’s such a public venue with thousands of people around that are very hard to control no matter the security .
Mr Derp,
It’s been like that every since the show began, the countless gore didn’t matter but oh my god those horrible moments of sex and nudity which most of them lasted very short anyway except that LF monologue scene back in season 1, and they got less and less appearence with each season but yet some people still called the show porn with story which made me question if those people ever actually saw any porn in their lifes or are they living in some type of amish alternate universe .
Speaking of, i think season 8 may be the season with the least nudity of the entire show, regardless of it only being 6 episodes, the only nudity that i can remember was that brief Bronn scene in episode 1 with the prostitutes and the famous Arya scene in episode 2 and that’s pretty much it . I don’t think they showed any nudity in the Jaime and Brienne love scene but i may be mistaken, either way that’s basically 2 or 3 cases in the entire season .
Dee Stark,
LDB has never been threatened here. He says that stuff as a joke and troll for attention.
Sue the Fury,
I never said I was threatened. But yet, I did still fear for my life. Whether you attribute that to my own madness or the reality of the situation, that’s up to you. All I know is that often times I found myself fending off multi-pronged attacks from vicious hordes of “positive” GoT fanatics. One person even spoiled the ending of S6 for me :[ (not that I cared at that point).
I still maintain that if I ever showed up for a Con of Thrones, that I would probably leave in a body bag. But that could be my own hyperbolic paranoid assumptions or based on well-founded fear. I’m not sure. Either way, I still do enjoy the site and still maintain that I never get even one iota of credit for the positive posts I make!
You really think people there would even know who you are and that they would care?
Mighty bold of you to assume anyone would care. We tolerate and even appreciate low-key trolling here. Low-key being the main point. Got it?
mau,
I dunno. You guys are intense.
Sue the Fury,
Got it. Sahwee, I go off the rails sometimes.
Several years back someone on this site invited me to come to their house so they could shoot me on the sidewalk. That this is the only time someone threatened me is a little embarrassing.
Cumsprite,
Well, to be fair you really have been AWOL on the ball references lately. Just gotta be more persistent!
Ten Bears,
Yes, I think you’re right. Perhaps it’s for the best, though I have to admit I am interested to hear what they have to say. Not that I want or need an “explanation” from them, but rather that I am interested to hear about the challenges they faced in writing the final season and why/how they made the choices they did. Because that’s such a big part of any creative endeavour: the choices. Nothing is ever created in perfect, ideal conditions. There is always compromise that requires choices. I’m sure D&D would be the first to admit that they wish they could have done X, Y, and/or Z, but hey.. in the end, they have to make a choice.
Also, all this talk of Arya’s white horse in that sequence really really makes me want a print of this to hang on my wall next to the print I have of Arya vs. Brienne!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Jesus can you be anymore overdramatic ? Stop with the victim playing, you remind me of a certain US president who is doing the exact same thing, maybe you are him in disguise ! Even if someone threatened you, no one knows who you are or how you even fucking look like, the fact that you are comparing yourself to the writers, which are public figures, is absolutely laughable . Even if you shouted out i am LatrineDiggerBrian in a public fan convention, no one will know or remember who you are, you are way overestimating your importance, sorry for the bad news buddy !
Mr Derp,
I believe it was someone from the IGN review of that episode that said that she’d rather see Oberyn’s eyes gouged out again than see the Arya sex scene. How completely messed up is that? That kind of nonsense irritates me to no end because it’s so backwards. Especially that scene because it was so beautifully done; consensual between two people clearly attracted towards one another and a young female taking agency over her own sexuality.
Enharmony1625,
It’s because they still see Maisie Williams as a child, partly also because she still hasn’t grown physically as much as other child actors like Sophie and Isaac which are huge, the fact is, she isn’t much younger than Emilia was back in season 1 .
Mr Derp,
Yu, that too. Gesh
All I can think is that this is a bunch of very funny, brilliant people! 🙂
I’d pay to be having dinner with this group and just sit there in silence and listen. 😀
Jack Nabble,
I get that it may be a little weird in that we’ve seen Maisie on screen since she was 12, but I’m talking about this sort of horrified outrage, which is just beyond immature and ridiculous. Like.. fine, it’s a little jarring, but get over it people. Kids grow up.
Jack Nabble,
Thank you for chiming in to prove my point, Jack, by writing this post fraught with curses, mockery, bullying, toxic masculinity, and various other types of buffoonish behavior. The exact kind of person that would most definitely assassinate me at a fan festival.
Very cool! He sure seems to thrive on everything GoT. I always admire people with that kind of energy and enthusiasm.
Hee! He does seem to very much value his solitary life…on the other hand, he seems great fun at conventions and tears it up at pubs and jam sessions, so a bit of a chameleon, that man. 😊
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Hahahahahahahaha, you should be a comedian dude, i haven’t laughed this much in forever, assassinate you, lol, unbelievable ! Make sure to watch your windows at night, you don’t want to be spotted by any snipers out there also be sure to look for the boogeyman under your bed too .
This, 100%. I don’t really need to hear from D&D (they seem destined to get asked mostly boring questions in interviews, honestly) and I’m sure they’ll say plenty on the DVD commentaries. I love the camaraderie of the cast and Liam Cunningham in particular is a thoroughly enjoyable person to listen to. Still wish Iain could be there. I really think Bryan Cogman would have been lovely to hear from as well – he has such affection for the characters and why he wasn’t nominated for an Emmy kinda blows my mind. Gwen would have been fire, as she and Nicolaj have such a great dynamic, and Sophie to be a goof with Maisie. Ah well.
What is wrong with this world? What a sad situation, that a fandom should take things so seriously. It also seems a bit cowardly the creators don’t want to face the audience’s response, maybe take the opportunity to defend the decisions they made.
I’m sure comic con security could be employed to handle any disgruntled fans who can’t appreciate the power and importance of creative discussion, especially when it comes to conflict, disagreement, or misunderstanding.
That there are supposedly threats on the internet… Well, that is certainly unfortunate. I am not sure what has been said or the degree to which these threats are serious. In an era dominated by hate speech, violence, chants of “lock her up” or “send them back” all sanctioned by our democratically elected leaders, one would hope that true leaders can take a bit of heat and stand up for what is right, or at least what they believe in, especially so in the realm of … fantasy, fiction, entertainment.
I feel like DnD could do better. Grrm has dealt with vile attacks from disgruntled “fans” for years. And clearly, the fans can do better. C’mon people!
I still wonder why NCW keeps turning up at these events. Peter and Lena do not seem to do as many. His team must think that this exposure good for his career. Or the money is attractive to him and he really likes people.
His character, Jaime, was completely irrelevant to Season 8 and the end game of the story. If he had died at the end of Season 7, the main plot points and the end game would have been the same. (Or even Season 6.) Davos could have knighted Brienne or another knight if it was needed to knight Brienne. (Knighting her was also irrelevant to the end story.) Actually, she could have died after saving Sansa as she really had no real role in the story after that event. I think that every scene Brienne had after saving Sansa was Jaime-related. She was basically a female character kept in the story to be humiliated by a male character. She could have been killed off by being mortally wounded while saving Sansa.
I suppose the fees were appreciated by the actors but the absences would have made more time/space for the rest of the story. Maybe Bran could have had some more activity instead so his end point would be a better reflection of the story itself.
Mr Derp,
True, and I think somebody having sex is much more normal than somebody killing people as a basic activity.
Jack Nabble,
Well I have to say that that LF scene in season 1 was too far. And in season 2 that moment that girl had some sticky stuff on her mouth. The rest I’m ok with. Especially Arya in season 8. It helped her character a lot in my opinion.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
How do you fear for your life because of comments online. Nobody knows you in Real Life. Or do you mean your online life? Sorry to say this but if you’re not trolling, I think your comment is a bit of an insult to people who have really received death treats and that could be executed. And take a reality check because this is not healthy, I say that to help not to insult you. But it’s not something you should take to your real life when you’re offline what is being said online.
As for spoiling the ending, that is just a dick-move from the person who did that.
Jack Nabble,
Let’s make Watchersonthewall great again.
Sorry sue, couldn’t resist.
Evading contact with fans isn’t act of people who believe in creating marvelous final season. Considering they had need to explain most of their choices during the show, lack of that for finale is very disappointing.
Ratings on Imdb or other sites , decrease of dialogue in quantity and especially quality, numerous criticism even from people defending them earlier speak of one of the biggest failure in executing final season.
In my opinion huge problems were evident during the Season 5 , and quality was constantly dropping .
Sister Kisser,
GRRM has been made fun of but never threatened, i don’t know what you’re talking about, the situations are not even remotely similar, ever since season 8 ended there has been a hate mob mentality against D&D, anyone that says not is either ignorant or is apart of that mentality and besides we don’t even know the real reason why they aren’t attenting, if they didn’t want to attend at all then they would have just refused from the begginning but the fact that they pulled out at the last minute clearly means something urgent has come up an besides they aren’t the only ones not coming anymore, besides Miguel, Nathalie and Iain are also not showing up anymore, they are just actors and they wouldn’t have any reason not to show other than scheduling issues .
Hyrkoon21,
No, they don’t need to explain anything to you or to anyone, stop acting like an entitled prima donna, i know it may seem shocking to you and to other people but your opinion is not universal, imdb ratings and other stuff don’t mean crap when it was clearly an admitted case of people negatively downvoting something on purpose and if quality was constanly dropping ever since season 5 then why is season 6 considered the best season or at least one of the best ? Keep up the bullshit up though, i’m sure your other buddies will revel in it .
Sue the Fury,
Thank you for clarifying and confirming that.
I particularly look forward to hearing from Conleth. <3 His complaints did not include having a death scene or not making it to the very end.
I have been disheartened by the widespread dislike for how GoT evolved at the end. I didn’t think it was so very terrible and my grey matter hasn’t deteriorated over these last few months. I doubt the two Ds would have deliberately set out to annoy fans (as some people seem to believe). After all, public opinion will have some influence on their ability to find future writing/production work. A dip in good opinion for them at the end of GoT might not be serious in that respect but if their next project is not successful it could impinge their marketability. Still, horses for courses and everyone is entitled to an opinion and all that jazz.
The internet can be very good – it helps people keep in touch with friends and family that live far away but then there is a Looniverse side to it as well. Although some folk have waxed lyrical in their reactions to the end of GoT I have seen worse online (some of the conspiracy theory channels are (to me at least) way out and wacky).
This angers me to an extent if it’s in reaction to the trolls and toxic element of the fandom. We could have got insight into the show runners minds on S8 instead now we will just get silence and be left to speculate and debate.
One of the things I’ve always enjoyed are the observations like the one referenced here with Hound and the white horse. Where you go, oh that’s good and run to rematch the scene. There was so little of that because any insight was shouted down as just wrong because the season was so bad. All anyone wanted to talk about was the season being bad. I kept looking for a moderated forum that could manage the insanity.
And lest we forget in the 6 months from announcement to purchase the first iPhone was so savagely trashed that many review sites had to turn everything off. Because you know it was just a fancy gadget that costs too much and would be a boat anchor within a month. So sometimes group think on the internet is wrong.
Ah, it’s brian back with the melodrama as usual lol, right on cue.
You say “quality was constantly dropping” since s5 and yet s6 was one of the highest rated seasons of all with two episodes of said sixth season being arguably some of the best………..
Backing out at the last moment is lame. If it makes some feel better we can pretend that they suddenly had a brand new commitment that made them cancel the appearance in the final few days. I’m sure that’s it.
And give me a break with this nonsense of….oh 9gag(something that 99% of the public probably doesn’t even know) threatened their life. Please. The reality is they have left the inevitable difficult questions to the cast members showing up, most of which won’t be able to answer why certain writing decisions were made. That’s unfair to them.
However, a guy like Conleth Hill who already was unhappy will be able to see this situation for what it is and may provide some derisive and sarcastic answers to the point of discomfort. Could be a highlight of the panel.
Dane,
I mean, they did preface their statement with “in my opinion”.
It appears D&D did not wish to attend their own trial.
If Comic Con ends up getting blown to smithereens with wildfire then I think we’ll know who to blame 🙂
orange,
You really think they can’t answer difficult questions?
There are no difficult questions, only difficult answers they could give that would only create more controversy.
I do not know what to conclude from the decision not to turn up after scheduling.
HBO marketing (?) may have thought that with many nominations for GOT (which they always were sure to get) that D&D would participate based on the “glow” of the industry support. They could appear at the event somewhat vindicated. The timing seemed right and this Con (I understood from others) tends to be quite friendly and so HBO would be able to ensure a friendly chairperson and audience.
Unfortunately, the Emmy nominations have not dulled the criticism. All press has not been kind in responding to their many nominations especially the writing nomination. Some mainstream outlets and the internet re-started on the writing. Even Esquire (not considered very hostile generally!) took the trouble to mock the GOT writing nominations. Despite this, it is still a very good time to re-engage.
It is unfortunate that they were so busy or so scared or felt so unsafe or thought it was a waste of their time. I hope D& will appear soon at another venue because it would be great to hear about their thinking on some head-scratching choices.
Anyway, the cast members (led by NCW) will sing their praises – they have never experienced such good writing before – that sort of thing. Some may actually mean it.
hahhahaa! Nice one!
Look what happened to Jaime after he rode across a country to attend his – he suffered some kind of breakdown and then a pile of rocks fell on him.
So they have some precedent for not appearing even if they are not pulling a Cersei.
orange,
Are you this miserable about everything in life or is it just this show that gets you going, every single time on every article i can bet to see the same usual 3 suspects, Mango, orange and Latrine Digger with their “insightful” comments, aka literally saying the same shit over and over again no matter the subject or context just the comments are slightly readjusted to fit the specific subject, blah,blah,blah, D and D are the devil, blah,blah,the show is crap, rinse and repeat, at what point does this subject becomes boring and you guys actually move on with your life if you actually have a life ? I’m sure if Dragon Demands wasn’t banned on this site, he would follow your suite, he’s pretty much doing that on youtube or other platforms, i’m just imagining being in the year 2050 and good old orange is still going on about something with D and D.
Can’t say I blame them at all. The toxic reaction coming from some of the “fan” base has been insane. I do think there will be less distraction without them there. But I would like to hear their side like others have stated here. The reason I love Watchers on the Wall is because most people here can disagree as an adult.
“Most people” is the key phrasing here 🙂
Unfortunately, there are a few posters who can’t seem to be in control of their own emotions when discussing a fictional tv show. It seems like some can’t take it when someone else has a different viewpoint. It really makes one wonder how some of these people react when they have to deal with real life adversity.
When does this panel start?
mau,
5:30 PST
I would not want to listen to difficult questions posed to, or difficult answers by, Benioff and Weiss. That would eat up valuable time, and detract from the audience interacting with the cast members. Listening to the showrunners addressing the “controversy” or creating more controversy would be boring.
I want to hear from Maisie Williams, John Bradley, Liam Cunningham, et al. about their experiences on the show. I’m sure they’ll have interesting anecdotes and funny stories.
A: Whinging and name-calling.
Young Dragon,
So in 4 and a half hours. I will sleep then lol
Well said, my lady. I feel precisely the same way. A lot– but not all–of the backlash has been blamed on toxic masculinity. I think that rather unfair, But most of the virulent and IRL threatening content I’ve seen, has indeed come from males, but (as best I can judge) usually from young men. When one is young, everything hurts, betrayals most of all. Internet anonymity allows everyone to rant, vent, and find like-minded people. Often you think your life is ruined, and often you want vengeance.
Whatever the reason, discretion is the better part of valour. Currently D&D are lightning rods. They were wise to drop out because it could have gotten out of hand. It still can. By the bye, I occasionally look at Maisie’s twitter. Recently, there have been some strongly negative comments about D&D and the show, excluding her and actors of course. The vile bile aimed at the showrunners and HBO must be hurting all the cast we love and the crew. What a piece of work is Man… .
I disagree!
Question for the mods, my post was deleted I think. Did I post something against site policy or did I delete it somehow myself. There was some issue when I tried to edit my post.
mau,
Perfectly said.
mau,
Is the panel today?
Live interview of the cast by Entertainment Weekly right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2e5joXh7c
Now that’s just cowardly of D&D. Expecting critics of your passion project? Face them, defend your work, and appreciate the show together. Now their absence may be the only thing discussed. Not the nicest thing to do to the cast who ARE turning up.
A shame about Miguel Sapochnik. Hope to hear much more from him.
Mr Derp,
Hahahahahaha!!
Isabelle,
I find it funny that you consider D&D to be cowards but don’t say the same about Miguel Sapochnik or the other members who aren’t attending anymore. Also, it’s not cowardly to avoid confrontation with a room filled with potentially juvenile haters. It’s simply common sense. They don’t need to defend their work to anyone. The 32 Emmy nominations speak for themselves.
Fortunately, they don’t have a dragon, like some empowered young females… 😉
“Nothin’ fucks you harder than a chaos ladder.” Davos (Liam) still giving us some great zingers. 🙂
Jacob says he’s up for a sequel as Grey Worm if they film in Barbados. 😛
Great video with Isaac
Isabelle,
Nice job ignoring all the other comments talking about this and why it isn’t cowardly, you totally don’t have a bias against them at all though, i’m sure you’re going to say that ! Like the other poster calling you out for not saying the same thing about Sapochnik, ehh why do i even bother anymore ?
Isabelle,
You guys are just ousting yourself as haters on your own, i don’t even have to do anything and anyone can see what’s all this thing about, at first i was indifferent to this news but now that i know it’s making you guys so angry i feel happy with it, you clearly wanted something to happen there and the fact that David and Dan gave you one last fuck you, it’s enough to vindicate me .
You seem to be the angry one around here, with top marks for insulting people personally (which somehow isn’t allowed from anyone else, so lucky you I guess?) If you think D&D skipped out as a ‘fuck you’ to anyone, I think you may be overestimating the amount of fucks they’d give to care enough to do something that petty.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I was responding to your last statement/question:
[You] “…It really makes one wonder how some of these people react when they have to deal with real life adversity.”
[Me] “A: Whinging and name-calling.”
Ten Bears,
Was there any consideration of knighting Arya for killing the NK? Did/Would she refuse?
Thanks for that!
I liked Jacob Anderson’s reply when the interviewer asked what each actors’ favorite line in the show was – by any character. (NC-W said it was “Hold the door,” Liam Cunningham said “Nothing f*cls you harder than time.” Maisie Williams said “Not today.” Isaac H-W said “Chaos is a ladder.”)
Jacob Anderson (Grey Worm) said: “Any time the Hound used the “c” word.”
Lol, I know what you meant. I was just echoing the climate around here lately by being argumentative and disagreeing with you just for the sake of it. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
I’d guess she’d refuse based on her conversation with Sandor (below), her avoidance of “glory”, and her insistence on self-determination.
Arya wasn’t even at the post-Long Night celebration when Daenerys toasted her as “The Hero of Winterfell” and legitimized Gendry as Gendry Baratheon, Lord of Storm’s End.
Arya’s never been one to toot her own horn. (As far as we know, she never let on that she was the one who terminated Walder Frey, his damn moron sons, and the rest of the Freys who perpetrated the Red Wedding.)
After saving WF and the world, Arya bugged off pretty quickly, and didn’t soak in the adulation. She told Sandor she doesn’t like heroes:
(S8e4: Sandor riding away from WF; sees Arya coming up next to him.)
Sandor: “For f*ck’s sake.”
Arya: “On your own?”
Sandor: “Not anymore. I don’t like crowds.”
Arya: “Me neither.”
Sandor: “Why not? They all love you now. You’re the big hero.”
Arya: “Don’t like heroes.”
Sandor: “It must have felt good sticking a knife in that horned f*cker.”
Arya: “Felt better than dying. You’re heading to King’s Landing?”
Sandor: “I have some unfinished business.”
Arya: “Me too.”
Sandor: “I don’t plan on coming back.”
Arya: “Neither do I.”
Sandor: “Gonna leave me to die again if I get hurt?”
Arya: “Probably.”
(They both chuckle)
Mango,
(Continued from 10:52 pm)
Here’s the video of Sandor and Arya riding away from WF together in S8e4
Touché! 😀
Ten Bears,
Thanks.
Ten Bears,
I came across this last night. This one is for you, mate. And to be shared with anyone who loves Arya, Sandor or especially Arya AND Sandor. I wish I could give the YouTuber more than my one upvote. A Girl has a dog.
I love this little bit from Vanity Fair from the SDCC panel earlier today.
Thank you, Maisie!! Excellent answer!
#ASNAWP
Stark Raven’ Rad,
How about this:
All Arya & The Hound scenes, S3-S8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFU60FqISo
I’m not sure it’s complete. I think it’s got all of their scenes.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
… or this:
Arya & Gendry scenes, S1 – S8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NAaztourQc
My favorite part is at 5:35:
Arya: “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone.”
Also, on rewatch, I’m really liking Arya’s interrogation/cross-examination/seduction of Gendry in S8. That could’ve been cringeworthy. It wasn’t. Maisie Williams played the alluring, self-confident vixen beautifully. And I chuckled when Gendry got all flustered when he tried to be evasive about his sexual history.
P.S. Side note: After all the “controversy” about Cersei’s rape/not rape by Jaime, and the even bigger controversy about inserting show! Sansa into book! Jayne Poole’s plotline so she gets raped by Ramsay, I would’ve thought the fandom would appreciate a young woman taking charge of her own sexuality and being the “dominant” partner in her encounter.
Bryan Cogman wrote Inside HBO’s Game of Thrones: Seasons 1 & 2 . … and back not so long ago used to be more visible as an insider of the show. I am not sure as far as I know he never appeared at Comiccon? He is very articulate and witty guy. He may have written the best episode for season 8.
Cogman , early on , appeared in a couple of Q and A’s about the show that were very interesting. I don’t think we have heard from him in that capacity in maybe the last 4 years?
And David Hill the other important ‘insider has not been very visiable for a long time.
I don’t think a con is the venue for the discussion I would like to see about season 8… I would like to see Cogman and Hill’ sit down for an interview with one or more of the serious and very intelligent observers of the show , like Myles McNutt , for a long analysis of the show. I feel , Cogman, at least has the best perspective , maybe there is some agreement he has not to talk for a while ?
Admittedly, cons are always hit or miss for panel members, especially actors. You never quite know who’s going to turn up, so you keep your fingers crossed.
It’s a bit obtuse, however, to think of Miguel, Nathalie or Iain’s absence in the same light as D&D’s. We’ve filled the pages of this website with legitimate criticism of D&D’s decisions this season, criticism based on a deep and enduring love of the show they’ve given us. SDCC was a fabulous platform for them to address even some of it, to enter into a dialogue with the viewers they appreciate, that the cast consider the backbone of the show. Instead, by not appearing, D&D sadly look like they’ve turned tail and ran, and because they were going to receive something short of absolute praise. It may be that they simply don’t care about what anyone thinks and had an evening farmer’s market to get to – perfectly fine, their right – but it looks to me like they’re acknowledging the criticism but are not quite ready to discuss it. As others did appear on the panel, it feels yes cowardly for them not to show up and to then let others face the elephant in the room.
As for the 32 Emmy nominations, it took a village to create this show and that village is being duly recognised. We’ve discussed multiple times the incredible performances – directionally, cinematographically, just plain acting-ly, etc – that were given, despite writing / storytelling that was less than ideal. That S8 received this recognition in spite of the criticism is a tribute to their work. It’s perfectly okay both to thank D&D for bringing us Thrones and to acknowledge that S8 wasn’t their best. Thrones’ legacy as one of the greatest stories and feats of television will endure.
We don’t know why D&D cancelled. Unless and until we do, we shouldn’t make any assumptions.
Isabelle,
Some of the criticism was legitimate, others were not. D&D were wise enough to know that it doesn’t matter what they say, those who hated the final season won’t suddenly find an appreciation for it. Going to SDCC would simply give the internet haters another opportunity to hurl insults at them. I mean, it’s really telling that the people who are upset with their absence are the ones who had a problem with season 8. People have the right to call them any name they want, but that in no way means they have to stand there and take it.
I agree, that a lot of people deserve credit for the show, but D&D deserve the bulk of the credit. They worked harder than anyone else and brought all the pieces together. And Nikolaj disagrees with you. The 10 actors who were nominated gave great performances because of the writing, not in spite of it. The Academy disagrees as well and clearly doesn’t care what the internet thinks, or they wouldn’t have nominated D&D for best writing.
Actually they don’t.
The way internet dehumanized Benioff and Weiss reminds me of anti-semitic propaganda.
What would be good is an opportunity to submit questions for D&D to answer in written form. They probably wouldn’t answer everything, but it might clear up some things.
For instance, I’d like to know why Cersei’s pregnancy never began to show, or if she miscarried, why that wasn’t disclosed to the viewers. Rumour has it that there was such a scene, but it was cut.
And why we skipped straight from the Daenerys death scene to the gathering in the dragon pit. I won’t be the only one to feel that Ep 6 should have ended with the destruction of the Iron Throne and Drogon carrying her away, with a final episode showing the aftermath in more detail. I’d like to know why there was no time for that. If HBO made that call, I think we should be told.
If this was the case there is no way they would ever say that.
I would be interested in an interview with Cogman, Hill and others by a good interviewer. I know McNutt writes for AVClub but I do not know his work well but he might be just fine. This would perhaps add some clarity. However, Cogman and Hill may be a bit constrained as well to speak openly. But, yes, it would be great to be able to hear a discussion on the creative choices made.
I understand yesterday that they did not take any audience questions. I have never been to a Con, but I think this is unusual.
What bothers me the most is that people are trying to bully each other about how they should feel about Season 8. Saying they were nominated for X amount of Emmy’s ‘proves you wrong’ suggests that individual opinions don’t matter because the majority rules. And it may indeed rule the box office but it shouldn’t invalidate a person’s right to express themselves even if they disagree with the mob. It’s okay to say ‘I hated Season 8’, likewise it’s okay to say ‘I loved it’.
Personally, I don’t think awards shows are a good measure of success, we all know awards can be bought – whoever lobby’s the hardest gets the nod and many talented actors/writers get shut out every year. I think with all the highly publicized scandals of the past 2 years, we’ve all seen that talent often doesn’t have much to do with who gets a job and/or who gets financing for something. The entire industry is twisted and sick in many ways but that’s a whole other conversation. I think the fact that some actors had to nominate themselves speaks volumes but that’s just my opinion.
While I didn’t like some of D&D’s writing, I certainly don’t agree with trying to ‘ruin’ their careers. They will either prove their detractors right or wrong in their future endeavors. Heck if Adam Sandler can still get paid millions to make movies then I think D&D will do just fine.
For myself I’m over it, I accept the ending – I don’t like certain aspects of it for sure but it is what it is and my opinion won’t change it.
Lots to agree with here. I think even fans that liked S8 have questions.
Both Lena and NCW said that a scene with Cersei losing the baby was filmed but not used. (Both are more frank when speaking in Europe it seems – home audience effect?!?.) So I am unsure if D&D wanted her pregnant or not. From the story we saw, she would be quite pregnant by the time she died? Certainly enlarged or already given birth.
Please do not go there. I beg you!
D&D have been praised and praised and praised and praised for nearly 10 years. Now that the audience wants to complain about Season 8, we want to start this – please.
Jack Nabble,
there is no difference between insulting someone and calling them out on their stupidity. You are calling them stupid. Respect is indeed earned. Given what and how you have posted here, you have earned none.
Ending of Lost was controversial, but Damon Lindelof still made Leftovers, critically acclaimed show and now many are excited for his new HBO show Watchman.
I think D&D have even better oportunity with Star Wars. They know very well how to write great buddy cop type of adeventures, they did that a lot with GoT. So movies in the style of Arya and Hound’s adeventures, or Beyond the Wall adeventures would be really great.
Star Wars version of Guardians of the Galaxy. And I think Star Wars liberated from these legacy characters like Luke, Leia, Palpatine, Lando and so on, would be much more relaxed place.
Just like Jane Goldman’s show without any source material.
Where? lol
Ever since S1, online narrative was D&D are idiots, and everyone else is great. I remember how much hate they got for S4. A lot of people even on this site were rooting for them to loose all Emmys that year.
So to see this new narrative how S4 was the best season is extremely hypocritical, because I know how much hate I got for saying that in 2014, because, yes, there was a time where saying ” S4 is the best” was controverisal.
Do you think what NCW said made sense? It made sense for him to say it to support his team. He has complained about the writing for years and it is important for his career that he makes it plain that he is NOT a part of the current negative feedback. When the furor started the Internet had numerous clips of him saying that he had tried to get D&D to do better. It had clips of Conleith looking upset. Both men have been careful to extract themselves from that – especially when speaking with the American audience. I think Conlieth did some of that yesterday as well.
GOT has always had many actor nominations. This year is the final year – so everyone that put themselves up go the nod.
In this business, lots of good actors do miracles with bad writing. It is a big part of their job. (Directors as well.) As one commenter said the biggest battle in Kings Landing was between the actors and the script.
Jack Nabble,
D&D were always the most underrated part of the show. Since S1. If something was good actors would get praise, directors, GRRM, but D&D? Never. They were always just Dumb and Dumber for online fandom.
The last 2 episodes of S6 were considered the best, and yet, in online fandom Miguel Sapochnik was praised for those episodes and not Benioff and Weiss. I remember anger when they were nominated for writing that year. And even more anger when they won.
Ok. We disagree.
Mango,
There is nothing to disagree. It’s a fact. Go and read Reddit and this site and see what people were saying in 2014.
mau,
!!!!No. I am Jewish, me being unhappy with how they finished this show does not make me Anti Semitic. Yikes!
Grandmaester Flash,
This is an example of the problem I have had with this season (the last two actually). So many ways this could have been set up better; leaves so many questions now that can never be answered. Both seasons had moments that took my breath away, moments that have made the show so incredibly wonderful. Wish they could have done more here.
Jack Nabble,
How about you and everyone stop calling each other stupid and idiots. Otherwise posts are going to be deleted and there are going to be some bans handed out.
Lots to agree with here.
The industry is “messy”. Oscars and Emmy have to be seen in a proper context for what they are and measure. Quality is only one of the factors in the decision and may not the most important.
GOT was always going to do well with 2019 nominations and wins. It is their final year after years of strong (and decent) seasons. Many of the other strong series are not in competition this year. It a perfect condition for lots of nominations and wins beyond the quality of the product.
VEEP will also do well. Final year and Julia is coming back from illness.
You missed my point. The point is that they are completely dehumanized in online fandom. They are just monsters that deserve to be punished. You can’t have rational discussion about them.
You can’t say antything postive about them. I was downvoted on Reddit for saying that best episodes of the show were show-original and not adaptation of the books. I was talking about Hardhome, TWOW and BOTB.
Why would they go? If some of the comments posted here are any indication, it was a wise decision to stay away. Alas, I wish the rest of the cast stayed away as well.
In my book, D&D have nothing left to prove. They brought “Game Of Thrones” to the right conclusion, the one the show actually needed. I couldn’t have asked for more!
ash,
Fans complained in S7, esp about Beyond the Wall because much of it made no sense. Of course, there were other hiccups in other seasons but we could “squint” past them.
Despite some great images, music etc – A lot of Season 8 behaved/felt like “Beyond the Wall”. Just “lack of believability” as the main impression – nonsensical and out of character behavior and odd behaviors/speech. (The industry also liked BtW more than fans.)
I wonder if D&D were just trying too hard to be original and edgy and surprising. The lack of time was clearly a factor mainly as they needed more episodes to make their characters’ conduct and story make sense. With the limited time they had/used, only a completely different ending would have worked and been widely emotionally satisfying. No, I will not pick one – but the ending (WHAT) did not match the HOW they had been building for years and also the what/how in Season 8. So many fans feel like they just abandoned GOT and pasted on an ending (perhaps the one GRRM told them) and “left town”.
I think entire GOT was within range of being an artistic triump…..damnit! The disputed ending also undermined the integrity of the entire series. Some of the overwrought fan feedback is from “a sense of something great lost” through negligence, arrogance etc. whatever.
Big “whiff”. It could have been an experience for the ages.
Ok. We are failing to communicate. I will think of ways I can do better.
Mango,
Please don’t. Just leave it.
You can if you stop with this idea that D&D were somehow really popular in online fandom even before S8.
Thanks, yes.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
Plus Isabelle & Mango: YES. Precisely.
I did find it very disappointing that D&D canceled, for whatever reason…although, a nice long in-depth conversation with just them would indeed be most ideal. I would adore the opportunity to sit down with them for…several hours, to go through all my questions (calmly, of course.) Something like that has to happen at some point. They had to know there’d be confusion and disappointment at the very least, after a long period of agonized waiting for the conclusion to the world’s greatest-ever show.
I followed along with the final SDCC panel of seven and learned nothing new…just a lot of the same little tidbits and sentiments I’ve heard a million times or knew intuitively. No audience questions, ever so conveniently. 8/ Very tame, though some of the guys were funny. I wonder whether they’ll even have a presence at NYCC; I’ll go if enough interesting people attend, but…
And I just saw the “Every Error in S8” video…and, just…wow. It was overwhelmingly depressing and dander-raising. I could come up with explanations for some of it, but the sheer amount, & the number of things I hadn’t even noticed until today…omg. I doubt you could do one half as long for the previous longer seasons.
shelle,
I’ve just seen the video and all I can say is “I rest my case!”
Mango,
This, exactly.
This!
mau,
Antisemetic? What are you serious? No, not liking something about a TV show and critiquing the writers of said show does not make one Antisemitic. It also does not make it an Antisemitic attack. The fact this even needs to be said is unbelievable and also you do a great disservice to actual Antisemitism by equating it with something so trivial in comparison.
orange,
There were actual antisemetic attacks on them on Reddit and mods had to lock some threads because of that. Also attacks on Benioff’s father.
But I said I was talking about totalitarian approach online fandom has, where they proclaim that something is objectively true and no disagreement is possible. Conspiracy theories, taking everything out of context, personal attacks, harrasments, death threaths, calls for violence, and so on.
Mango,
I agree with all of this.
How?
Jack Bauer 24,
Well yeah, they’ve milked this cash cow, so time to move onto something still lactating…
Well, now the cash cow has dried, I guess it’s time to find another still lactating.
orange,
There have been seriously antisemitic attacks on D&D on Reddit which some people let go unchecked, and occasionally people have made remarks here which we have deleted. That is why you don’t realize they’re happening- because we delete them as they ought to be. Please do not underestimate the levels of hatred in this fandom. (All fandoms, really, to be honest.) Racism, misogyny and antisemitism are common; active moderation is the only thing that keeps it out.
So did anyone else see the Comic Con panel? I just watched it on YouTube.
James Hibberd says at the end that it’s his fault they ran out of time before being able to open it up to fan questions… Do you think that was true or did they just decide not to open it up to fan questions? James’ questions were OK, but I would have liked to have heard from fans. From the video I thought the room was very happy to see the actors and very respectful. I missed hearing from the fans.
With just the cast there, they are only going to be able to speak about their own ideas about their characters. Questions about the scripts would really be more for D&D.
I thought the actors gave honest answers.
Maisie had one the funniest moment for me when Hibberd asked the cast what they stole from the set. She said she didn’t steal anything for herself, but she took some of the fake blood things they used when they showed the Waif’s face in the hall of faces. She said she put the blood in the bathroom of her trailer, and she was really cracking up about it. John Bradley is always great with how serious he takes his character. I liked his answers.
But did anyone else have an opinion about why they didn’t show fan questions? I don’t think they cut them out of the youtube video. Hibberd said he was sorry, but he ran out of time and it was his fault….
shelle,
I do see that you went and also said they didn’t have fan questions…
It’s actually kind of interesting. It’s harder for the actors (and maybe not as interesting to watch) when they don’t have to keep secrets anymore.
Respect goes both ways.
Writers and actors are not public figures where they have to answer questions. I think large part(or at least the most vocal part) of the fandom didn’t show respect these people deserve. And when I say respect I don’t mean that they should love everything about the show, but they have to avoid name calling and insults. And a lot od people online don’t know how to criticize something without acting like D&D killed their dog.
I think Benioff and Weiss, or at least Cogman or Hill should appear at Con of Thrones next year, where you have much healther atmosphere. I hope people from the organisation will find a way to bring them there.
I’m sure they will appear eventually lol
David Chase, showrunner of Sopranos, waited 4 months until his first interview. Showrunner of Lost waited a whole year.
Benioff and Weiss will recive International Emmy Founders Award in November this year, and I think there will be panel afterwards. And I expect some short statements in September at Emmy Awards as well.
One supposed ambiguity was resolved: Jon Snow was merely yelling at undead Viserion, and was NOT trying to distract him to let Arya sneak past, and was NOT shouting “Go!” to her.
From Vanity Fair – Joanna Robinson
7/19/19 SDCC article, “Game of Thrones Comic-Con Panel Debunks the Season’s Most Annoying Theory”
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/07/game-of-thrones-comic-con-panel-2019-sdcc-maisie-willliams-debunks-arya-theory
(Excerpt)
***
“Mostly answering softball “what if?” questions from their moderator, the cast did manage to clear up one or two lingering mysteries from the controversial Season 8.
Williams provided the most valuable moment of clarity when she debunked, without hesitation, the notion that Arya Stark had any help whatsoever in defeating the Night King in Episode 3. A flimsy (and frankly rather misogynistic) theory—based, I suppose, on the fandom’s expectations that Jon Snow might do something more useful in that battle beyond screaming at an undead dragon—proposed that Arya’s cousin had intentionally distracted Viserion in order to let Arya by. “NO,” Williams said. We can, of course, consider the Battle of Winterfell a team effort; after all, Melisandre did a hard night’s work. But the ultimate kill, here, goes to Arya and Arya alone.”
________
Ten Bears,
Except it was never ambiguous. I completely agree with Joanna Robinson in the article in that this theory is flimsy, misogynistic, and ultimately ridiculous. This was also the time were articles and videos started popping up with some claiming that Arya was a Mary Sue, and you don’t get much more misogynistic than that.
Enharmony1625,
You’re right. “Ambiguous” was the wrong word.
Though I still do not know what Jon Snow was doing. Yelling at an undead dragon? Does that work?
Ten Bears,
He was trapped and accepted his death. That scream was a suicide last stand.
Surely “the most valuable moment of clarity” was provided by Jacob when he revealed that Grey Worm has the pillar but not the stones.
Or as he put it: Dick, no balls.
mau,
I always learned: Don’t judge when you don’t know the whole story.
So in that case, people shouldn’t judge D&D before knowing the whole story.
And about name-calling: Personally I think name-calling is never ok, even when you’re right. for me name-calling happens when people don’t have real arguments to give, so name-calling is the only resort left for them to make a point. So personally I never take somebody serious if they resort to name-calling.
Grandmaester Flash,
Well, I have to disagree that it needed more time. I think it gave us everything we needed to close the story. Scenes between those 2 parts would only drag the story. Look at LotR after destroying the ring we got a short scene after it, like we got a short scene after Dany’s death with Drogon and Jon. After that it cut already a couple of days later with one short scene and after that weeks later to crowning of Aragorn, and again weeks later with them returning to the shire, then we saw a montage covering months. And then we got the endscene which was probably months later also. The last 30 minutes were as long of a time then the whole 3 movies. If nothing happens skip it. Same with GoT we skipped to the dragonpit scene because no scene in between was important. A scene with the starks moving south was not important because we knew they went south when sansa served it and that was the only reason they were there, to make sure Jon survived, a scene showing them south would only work if in fact there was going to be a big battle. Same with Jon and Tyrion between the moments. We got what was needed with the scene we got with them.
kevin1989,
I can’t seems to add my second part of the message unfortunate so I’m trying that later.
Well, no, I can’t agree there. Since there was no witness to Jon’s killing of Daenerys, we needed to be shown how it was revealed. Sure, we know Jon’s too honest to lie, but that’s not enough. It would have been a bit more understandable if someone had been there to see what happened. But however it went down, there would have been tension and drama, and it seems a very strange decision to omit it.
Grandmaester Flash,
I think it’s very easy: Big pile of blood next to Jon. Drogon flies away with a body. Jon as the honorable fool turned himself in. plus Jon was the only one next to Grey worm who could get close to Dany. So there were only 2 suspects and I don’t think Grey worm looks like he did it.
The only thing that could have been added was 1 sentence, but I don’t see how they could add that was Tyrion saying to Jon: Why did you have to turn yourself in, you honorable fool. Or something like that.
Ten Bears,
Haha. Maybe he figured that “well, I got resurrected, let’s try screaming at this dragon.” But in seriousness, I think it was just a scream of frustration and desperation — just letting out that emotion.
kevin1989,
Of course we can mentally fill it in, but no. Just no. This is a big thing. We should have seen the reaction of Grey Worm and seen Jon coming very close to being executed. Drama and tension! That should have been the opening scene of the (extra) final episode.
You’ve also put your finger on something that couldn’t be helped – the dwindling away of characters so we were left with few people who could contribute to the scene. But there were still loads of Unsullied and Dothraki around. We could have done with a few more named characters among that lot anyway. But character attrition was a factor that inevitably weakened the show towards the end, and that was unavoidable.
I think this may be the longest run-on sentence I’ve seen in years. Congratulations, my friend.
However, TLDR.
Seth Rogan basically used his entire panel for his show to poop all over Benioff and Weiss. It was pretty brutal quite frankly with some good natured digs and some over the top personal ones. From what I’ve read online Benioff and Weiss appear to be the butt of most jokes at Comic Con this year and have been getting mocked in a number of different places by different talent in a number of panels.
While I understand their hesitation to go, it seems they made things worse for themselves by not attending.
Boojam,
I love your idea of a conversational style interview/discussion! I really would like to hear from them. The Behind the Episode bit for S8E2 when Cogman broke down a bit saying how much he loved the characters has just stuck in my mind ever since.
Ten Bears,
Just read this article on Maisie’s conditions for doing an Arya spin-off:
(source)
Agreed! Someone get on that pronto!
(Also, I think they meant to say “Someone get Arya a zipped-up costume ASNAWP.”)
Grandmaester Flash,
Well I have to disagree with the first part, for me such a scene would have dragged the show. They avoided it in the first seasons such scenes. For instance we didn’t saw Ned’s or Sansa’s or anyone’s reaction minutes after Lady was executed. We saw that a week later already in KL. We didn’t have that tension when Stannis took over Storms End like in the books. Or when Tyrion got captured by Cat, we didn’t saw the reactions right after that, we skipped a day further. Same with the capture of Jaime by Robb. Already a couple of days later, maybe even a week till we saw something of that again. Or did we saw Jaime escape with Brienne in 3×08, no we skipped ahead a day, Cat was being imprisoned by Robb and we saw Brienne and Jaime together later. So a scene where they walked out of the camp was unnecessary so it was not added. And I name many more scenes that could have been added for the tension factor. For me a scene where we saw Jon being imprisoned was for me after the airing a must, why wasn’t it in it I though, now I’m happy they didn’t put it in. It would have felled not needed in the long run.
kevin1989,
The only scene I was missing which would have fit perfectly in with Jon moving free beyond the wall alive, was having it mirror Dany being buried (concealed) in the crypts of Meereen.
But I think a huge disadvantage was for GoT the many characters it have, and many alive at the end of season 7. Meaning a lot of characters needed to be given a proper death or a proper ending in the final. It also mean those characters needed a story. That’s why we probably got that strange Bronn storyline. And I think the story needed to be told per episode was too long to be really told in that episode but too short to be told in 2. Difficult decisions which for me they pulled off the best that was possible. I mean let’s say make LotR the movies a tv show, and try to think of what need to be in the final season, deciding where the cuts need to be for the cliffhangers of every episode. And more over try to think of what needs to be in the final episode, with a time-constrain on your hands, which have a max time and a minimum time. The end result wouldn’t flow that good as the movie was.
Would you cut it after the ring was destroyed the final episode would be too short. Would you cut it after the battle of Gondor the final episode would have been too long. What do you decide as a writer. To add scenes that would diminish your story, or cut scenes that would also diminish your story. At the same time think of budget, and shouting time. At the same time, the restrictions the cities you shoot in gave you. You need 10 days to shoot what is needed for that season, too bad, we will give you only 8. And many more things D&D needed to figure out.
mau,
I was thinking more along the lines of freedom of speech, but you’re right, there are limitations. People certainly don’t have the right to threaten their lives. I haven’t seen all the insults thrown at them, but then again, I stay off of Twitter and Reddit. The worst I’ve seen were people calling them hackers, trash writers, Dumb and Dumber, etc. While all of these are despicable, they are legal.
Mango,
Do I think it makes sense that an actor who has worked on a show for ten years would praise the writing of the show? Is that a serious question? Yes, it makes perfect sense. And you’re incorrect. Nikolaj never insulted the writing, he only expressed his dissatisfaction that Jaime was still with Cersei. He obviously grew attached to Jaime and wanted Jaime to get with Brienne and be happy, which is understandable. That is not the same thing as criticizing the writing. I believe this has already been explained to you by other posters, so I’m not sure why you keep bringing it up.
As for Conleth, he never denied being dissatisfied with the direction of his character, only that the media blew it way out of proportion, which I have absolutely no problem believing.
Milutin,
I’ve watched several critical videos of GOT season 8 and they all basically have the same weak arguments. I have no problem tearing these videos apart. What I find strange is that I actually agree more with the criticisms aimed at seasons 5, 6, and 7. That’s not to say I didn’t really enjoy those seasons, I did, but I understand they had some flaws. All the criticisms for season 8, however, have been weak as hell, and yet this is the only season that’s polarizing. All these videos are doing is confirm what I’ve been saying for years. People are more critical of GOT than any other show. Why else do you think that there is no “Every Error in Breaking Bad” video out there?
kevin1989,
None of those examples are comparable. None match the enormity of what Jon had just done.
On the whole I loved S8, but the last episode felt like there was a chunk missing from the middle. It would also have been good to have a short scene discussing who was to attend the dragon pit meeting, as there were some unidentified figures. A few lines of dialogue to explain the new Prince of Dorne, etc.
IMO it really needed eight episodes, not necessarily all as long as 60 mins. None of the extra scenes needed to be shot on location, so no complications there.
Grandmaester Flash,
The new prince of Dorne was explained in episode 8×04.
I agree that it felt like there was something missing. But I think that comes more that 1. There is no “several weeks later” message like some shows does, GoT avoid such things. And 2. If it were 2 episodes, it would felt normal. The next episode just starts a week later. It’s done before. But if it’s a next episode people wouldn’t have a problem with such a time skip, it’s a new chapter a new “story”. But a episode of just 35 minutes can’t be done for a show like goT even 40 minutes is too short, so it needed to be one episode. For me I don’t think there needs to be a transition, it ends with Jon stabbing Dany, and the next begins with him being in a cell. But I agree that maybe it should have been acknowledge. It could even be a argument in his trial for good or the bad. “He turned himself in, that say something”. or it could have been in the scene “ask me in 10 years”.
Personally I think there were to many characters left alive that were important. Meaning a lot of characters needs to get an ending. How do you give them all a ending in the final without having a 3 hour long final. I mean lotr ending was pretty easy for that. Having the fellowship together. Saying goodbye in a sense to a bunch of characters. They were minor so it didn’t have to have a big ending like the Starks or Tyrion, Jaime Brienne etc, they didn’t have their own arc only the fellowship. So Gimli Legolas etc were finished in just one scene. After that you finish aragorn in one scene. After that all the hobbits and gandalf. All those story’s were about the same thing the ring so it was easy to end those. GoT had stories on their own, more time per character more characters etc.
Personally I wished they just skipped the whole Bronn storyline and have him just be at the end with his castle.
Also I agree with many that I wished the show had 2 seasons of 6 episodes, with a runtime around 45/55 minutes like season 1. For me big episodes is not really needed.
Young Dragon,
enjoy
https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/cfiggw/users_in_rfreefolk_are_pissed_that_stranger/euac1ce/
Indeed! *sits back* Would love to hear the rebuttals.
Yeah, it certainly seems suspect that Hibberd caused them to “run out of time” and not be able to take any audience questions…but at least you weren’t going to get the answers you really want without D&D, anyway.
It’s good that they can speak without fear of spoilers, yet still, some of the responses seemed like damage control or “what HBO wants me to say.”
I followed it on Twitter; I’ll look for the video. Maisie’s blood-all-over-the-bathroom story sounded funny. And Conleth saying that what he stole was every scene he was in? Genius. xD And, true. B-]
Agree that too many characters were left alive, especially to be dealt with (or, y’know, not even mentioned) in a season of only six episodes.
You made me chuckle.
kevin1989,
No, the Prince of Dorne was not explained. He was mentioned, that’s all. Is he a Martell? A cousin? Or is the new prince from one of the other great houses of Dorne? That would have been an interesting prelude.
There were enough omissions (minor but unsatisfying) over the course of the series to fill it out to eight shorter episodes. 45 to 50 minutes would be fine.
As I said before, I would be so interested to hear why corners were cut.
Well, over the last two months the writing of GOT has been a basis of many jokes. I think much of the thinking public (those that watch or heard of GOT) are incredulous that the show’s writing collapsed so dramatically. So yes, it is kind of funny…
Of course, D&D’s failure to turn up is another source of good-natured teasing. Seth deciding to take GOT questions in his session was great!
It says quite a lot that Hibberd as chair (although working with EW definitely has a special arrangement with D&D for access to GOT ) avoided fan questions. What are they afraid of?
Grandmaester Flash,
Agree with that smaller episodes would have been better and a little bit more. I like big episodes but not the whole time, personally I think big episodes should have been the finals of the seasons.
As for more information about the prince of Dorne, for me that would just be a waste of time. Personally I don’t care. And if we know his family name, we get the question: Why did Dorne choose that family and which family is that, what is the connection to the Martells etc. Every question answered lead to at least 2 more questions.
What I personally do care is that we didn’t saw Merreen in the final, or at least where Drogon went.
And I think the corners that are cut are multiple reasons:
– Like many big shows, not every question can be answered. And not every part of the story can have a proper conclusion without being felt forced into the last season.
– The story was being told, 1 story per episode. Without time limit. That’s how it was written. Every episode had it’s own story on it’s own. Problem is that you don’t know how much is needed per story, one needs 50 minutes another 2 hours.
– Shooting, not everything can be shot that is in a script, because of budget reasons, logistics, time on a certain location etc. Cut’s are always made. Sometimes those cuts have a big impact. Remember that we saw with the read through that Arya jumped off a big pile of bodies to jump onto the NK. That big pile was not filmed.
– Cutting the runtime. Scenes need to be deleted because the runtime are too big.
– Timeframe of CGI, we had a interview in 2018 where they stated that the CGI team are working at least to the end of May. Meaning that their time for everything that was shot to put on screen had more time needed. So minor scenes were put to the shelf.
and many more reasons.
and personally I have a feeling that the new contracts of the main cast had something to do with it. Half the budget already went into their salary. And they wanted to get paid per episode, so I have a feeling that the episode count was lowered with bigger episodes to make sure that that costpile wasn’t even bigger. I don’t know if that’s something that really was a issue but it wouldn’t surprise me. And a season 9 meant also that new negotiations would be made with even bigger salaries.
kevin1989,
I know that there are multiple *possible* reasons such as those you have listed. There may also have been other factors of which we know nothing. That is why I would like to hear from the people who had to make those decisions. But I don’t think a live audience firing questions is a good way to get the answers, for a number of reasons.
A few people here know the lore far better than I do – so questions.
I thought trial by combat is seen as seeking the judgment by the gods. If you lose then you are guilty by the judgment of the gods. Right?
If so, would Tyrion not be seen as convicted of the murder of Joffrey by the gods? (The audience knows differently but not the citizens.) How would the Westerosi people simply allow him to pick the King and to be Hand? (I will not even get into him being Hand to the genocide queen as well.) Was he pardoned?
Is there anything in the lore that provides a basis for selecting a king based on having the best story?
Hahahhaa.
Indeed. Indeed.
I did not know this was the case for GW. I thought he had lost it all. I am happy for him.
Jack Nabble,
It was their decision to contact the fanbase, when being faced with adapting extensive and complex material.They were present in various conventions while they were getting mostly favourable response. Retreating from that in the finale , shows lack of consistency and respect toward the fans who appricate their work, I am sure there are few.
Imdb ratings were also used as tool by them and defenders of their decisions to point in quality of the show, and their competition with other titles like “Breaking Badf”, it is now also fair to use it to point of lack of quality.
Season 6 is likely considered as “best” by numerous fans, for little thing called “fan-service” it’s response toward it.
Only bullshit I see is comming from your rather filthy vocabular, You should learn some things like manners, it may help in Your personal growth.
mau,
Against my better judgment, I actually looked, and instantly regretted it. Jesus.
orange,
I’m not following your logic. Why would it have been better for them to show up and listen to that bull shit in person?
Young Dragon,
There is a lot more. About them, about Sophie, and now Nikolaj. Angry mob.
mau,
About Sophie? Is it because of Sansa’s behavior towards Danerys? Nikolaj, I’m assuming, is about his recent public support for D&D.
Young Dragon,
I bailed on that reddit when that was happening but they are rather graphic in what they want to see from Sophie. They want more nudity. They just started on her as a character and it rolled to her as a person.
This is an excellent point. I’ve seen lists of questions, goofs, demands, and “cheats” from fans…and most of them show a very simple understanding of what happened and of the process of writing and producing. They don’t see the necessity of give-and-take, the demands of consolidation, and the need for occasional compromises to get a show on the screen. IMO it’s a very nuanced show with much going on that is shown only in subtext or intuited from previous characterisation and events. You have to be patient and fill in the blanks to find continuity and sometimes meaning. The new GoT haters skew young. They see the superficial and believe what they already “know”. Their confirmation bias makes them currently idolise Seth Rogen and reject anything positive the SDCC panelists said about Season 8 or Dan & Dave. So, dear YOung Dragon, perhaps this is why the new wave anti-fans generate and accept weak arguments and believe unproven proofs…and we don’t. The final endgame especially erased some of their hopes and dreams, and that is unacceptable.
Tyrion said “The true history of the world is the history of great conversations in elegant rooms.” I’m very grateful we have WotW as our elegant–and safe–room. Do you veteran Watchers remember the splendour of chats with Wimsey, ACME, Clionha. Queen of Thrones,, Talvikorppi, Ramsays 20th Good Man, Chilli, Lord Parramandas, Tensor the Mage, Wolfish, Ginevra, Flayed Potatoes, Lady Goodman and so many others? Some were inspiring. Even the people we disagreed with (usually) carried on civil and insightful conversation. Many of us are still here, but I feel a bit like poor Jenny of Oldstones, thinking of the ones we have lost and the ones we have found. Many of these discussions were inspired by essays from WotW staff and guest writers. So everyone, keep up the good work. And thank you.
Suit yourself:
1. Danerys did look concerned after hearing about Viserion, but since she was the leader, she had to keep calm and set an example for her people. If she and Jon began freaking out, everyone would have started panicking.
2. If every character recapped their story, it would have filled out the rest of the season. Besides, it would have been a terrible viewing experience. We already have the “previously on” segments to deal with this.
3. People do not simply accept that Bran is no longer Bran. They all give him a strange look because they don’t understand what that means. It’s a perfectly acceptable reaction.
4. Arya was too busy being excited at having her brother back to ask about his “death.” Those questions can wait.
5. Arya came to appreciate Sansa last season and came to realize how effective she was at being lady of Winterfell.
6. First Cersei says no to sex, then Euron pleads his case, then Cersei starts walking away only to turn around and give him a pained look. How else was Euron supposed to interpret it? Also, the Mountain has a sixth sense of what Cersei wants. We saw this last season. It’s part of Qyburn’s programming.
7. Theon was on a stealth mission to save his sister and succeeded. How is this an error?
8. Both Brienne and Sansa vouched for Jaime. Besides, Danerys was already willing to accept the Lannisters help last season, so it shouldn’t have taken much to sway her.
9. Why would she mention Jaime charging at her? They were at war. Everyone in the room knew it.
10. Only Lord Karstark wanted Jaime’s head, and the Karstarks weren’t in the best standing at the moment. Even if they did speak out, no one would have listened to them.
11. Lord Commander Edd’s presence wasn’t really necessary. Neither were many of the people who did show up.
12. When was it mentioned that there were butterflies in Naath that carried a disease fatal to non-natives?
13. Tyrion and Davos had already buried the hatchet. Besides, Davos is perfectly aware that the two sides were at war and Tyrion was fighting for his survival. It wasn’t personal.
14. Yes, the strategy imployed in The Long Night wasn’t great, but battle tactics are very rarely portrayed properly in television shows/movies, including the previous seasons of GOT. I don’t know why some people are only just criticizing it now.
15. Melisandre has been deciphering the prophecy, which is why she now knows it’s Arya.
16. The Dothraki only hate blood magic, not fire magic. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be following fire proof Danerys who has three magical dragons.
17. They lost Dothraki in the Battle of the Loot Train.
18. They had a plan concerning the dragons. It was laid out in episode 2.
19. The Dothraki charged the dead for the same reason they charged the Lannister army in season 7. That’s what they do best.
20. The no animals in the army of the dead is a nit pick, not an error.
21. Jon and Danerys didn’t fall off their dragons because they held on for dear life.
22. Jon and Rhaegal were lying in wait for the Night King.
23. The wights are looking for stragglers.
24. Arya used her ninja skills to quickly get out from under the table.
25. Fair enough about Danerys not giving Jon a lift.
26. Jorah didn’t teleport to Dany’s side, he simply came to her aid.
27. Fair enough about wight’s breaking through stone and not brick.
28. The characters didn’t survive impossible odds, only perilous situations.
29. Jon leaves Sam because he has to get to the Night King to end this.
30. Bought more time for what? Theon didn’t know about Arya. He was trying to gain forward momentum.
31. A broken wooden spear that’s being used by a extraordinarily strong, super natural being.
32. Jon was frustrated and was shouting a suicidal scream.
33. The reason it wasn’t made clear was because it didn’t happen.
34. It’s called “building tension.”
35. Arya did not struggle to sneak past wights in the library. She did it quite successfully.
36. It was an involuntary scream
37. Arya acted too quickly for the Night King to do either of those things.
38. The Night King purposefully put the mark on Bran. Why would he do the same to Arya?
39. The Night King’s motives were to kill humanity and all its memory. That was already established.
40. The White Walkers were a driving force for much of the plot.
41. No, the Baratheons weren’t the ruling monarchs anymore. The Lannisters were. They were replaced much like the Targaryens before them.
42. The reason Brienne is a virgin is because she is unmarried. The reason she is unmarried is because the other lords believe her to be ugly. That has always been a sore point for her and that is why she was so upset.
43. Tormund had no choice to ride Drogon as it was either that or die. Jon made the conscious decision to ride a dragon into battle, which he views as very impressive.
44. Danerys wouldn’t be the first person to say that she hasn’t begged for anything when she has. She doesn’t consider herself to be a beggar, so this dialogue isn’t at all odd.
45. Considering how big the army was, losing half is quite a lot.
46. What the showrunners say doesn’t matter. All that matters is what they put on the screen.
47. That was her plan, and she didn’t want Jon to try and stop her.
48. Assassinating Cersei is seen as dishonorable, and Tyrion was tryig to spare Cersei and her unborn child.
49. The fight against the dead was Dany’s fight too. They shouldn’t have had to give up northern independence to gain her help.
50. Jon did not betray Ned’s memory by telling his family the truth. The only reason Ned kept it a secret was to keep Jon safe from Robert, and that was no longer an issue.
51. Drogon shook the wights off before they could do extensive damage.
52. Jon was going through an identity crisis, which is why he didn’t pet Ghost. He didn’t feel like a Stark anymore.
53. Why would the Lannisters be guarded? They were both Stark allies, and one was even Hand of the Queen.
54. Joffrey explained that his crossbow was much easier to load.
55. The guarantee is that a Lannister always pays his debts.
56. Danerys was scouting on top of Drogon and Rhaegal.
57. The ships were hidden behind rocks.
58. What the showrunners say doesn’t matter. All that matters is what they put on the screen.
59. Drogon knew the bolts were coming. Rhaegal did not.
60. The scorpions were on a swivel and could turn around.
61. Euron didn’t have the men for that.
62. There was no one else in that hall to overhear them.
63. Varys is always looking for the best ruler. Jon was the better choice for the reasons Varys gave.
64. Jaime has changed. He’s no longer the type of man who throws children out of windows. His love for Cersei may not have changed, but that was never the problem. It was the things he did in the name of that love, but he doesn’t do those things anymore.
65. They were on ships, which is a faster way of travel.
66. It was a parlay, where there are rules.
67. Again, it was a parlay. Cersei wanted to portray herself as a good ruler, so her hands were tied.
68. Varys could have told him. Also, Euron isn’t the brightest bulb.
69. Missandei has never killed anyone before and that would have gone against her character.
70. The letters never got out.
71. He wanted to get Jon on board his plan to make it much smoother.
72. Tyrion was being loyal to his queen after seeing that Varys was really going through with it.
73. That’s entirely different. Freeing Jaime and having him get Cersei to surrender would have benefitted Danerys greatly.
74. Jaime was in a very dark place then and was acting the man he thought he was rather than the man that he is.
75. Fair enough about the bells.
76. Jon comforted Danerys about Missandei instead.
77. Euron’s crew are mutes, but the commanding officers on the other boats are not. After all, how would they be able to give orders?
78. Rhaegal didn’t know the attack was coming, Drogon does.
79. They had a month of rest.
80. Danerys proclaimed the citizens of King’s Landing “not innocent” and wanted to “rule them with fear.” It was completely in character.
81. You can’t use a clip from an earlier season to try and point out mischaracterizations in the current season while leaving out everything that happened in between.
82. Jaime didn’t teleport. He walked.
83. Davos delivered the boat. That was the favor Tyrion asked of him.
84. Yes, it was lucky that Danerys got Cersei. But luck isn’t an error.
85. That wasn’t the same horse. It was symbolic.
86. None of that matters when the world is literally falling on top of them.
87. No, the sorcery wasn’t specified, but so what? It rarely is in fantasy.
88. Yes, Euron’s line turns out to be false, but why does that matter?
89. Ilyn Payne is no longer on the show and has been off her list for a while.
90. The reason she didn’t use her dragons from the beginning was because then she still cared about the people’s opinion of her and didn’t want to look like a conqueror. Besides, she would have had to ride Drogon and attack King’s Landing alone. All it would have taken was one lucky shot by a Lannister archer and the war would have been over.
91. Fair enough about Grey Worm and his teleportation.
92. She’s embraced herself as a conqueror and liberator, rather than a ruler, just like Daario has said. Her priorities have changed.
93. Tyrion’s execution was coming, as was addressed in the show.
94. Arya didn’t know about Tyrion’s escape plan. She just knows that the Red Keep was demolished and most of the city was destroyed.
95. Arya’s presence in King’s Landing was about her character, not the story.
96. Jon is Warden of the North and outranks all the Unsullied.
97. Jon has been alone with Danerys plenty of times before.
98. Dragons are smart, maybe even smarter than humans. That was established in season 6.
99. This is addressed as well. If Grey Worm had executed Jon, the North would have declared war. Grey Worm didn’t want to sacrifice anymore of his Unsullied so he kept Jon prisoner until they could reach an agreement.
100. The Dothraki only follow strength. How many of them stayed behind when
Khale Drogo died.
100. It’s been confirmed that Grey Worm only lost his balls.
101. Tyrion was making a suggestion, which the other lords agreed to.
102. The Kingsmoot is where the lords of the ironborn vote, not the common people
103. Yara gave up ironborn independence when she declared she would take back the Iron Islands in Queen Dany’s name. Dorne has never once expressed their desire for independence.
104. The Baratheons no longer have a claim to the throne.
105. He’s the last Baratheon, so they have no choice but to accept him
106. Jon killed Danerys. Grey Worm would never allow him to be king, so why bring it up at all?
107. No, Jon and Sansa will not go to civil war.
108. The rest of the criticisms about the dragon pit are minor nit picks.
109. Tyrion explains the Night’s Watch new purpose.
110. Sending prisoners to the Night’s Watch isn’t going to be a problem. Just because the North is independent doesn’t mean they are on friends.
111. Jon is an honorable man and will accept his punishment. Grey Worm knows this.
112. Tyrion has always been overlooked
113. Tyrion upholds Bronn’s deal because a Lannister always pays their debts.
114. Tyrion was also inexperienced in handling money when he was appointed master of coin. Also, Littlefinger didn’t quite know how loans worked as he borrowed a shit ton of money without paying it back.
115. The Night’s Watch has a new purpose and Sam is no longer bound to them.
116. Sansa doesn’t need Brienne anymore and released her of her vow. Brienne can now honor Jaime’s memory.
117. He said he’ll find Drogon himself after the council failed. Master of whisperers would simply fill out the small council.
118. Tormund said they’ll wait for the winter stroms to pass at Castle Black before heading North.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Last paragraph was lovely, expressed my thoughts completly I have great memories of those people and discussions. There are a few online communities that I remember well and fondly and WotW is certainly added.
Young Dragon,
“20. The no animals in the army of the dead is a nit pick, not an error.”
_____
Wait… Someone’s complaining that the lack of wight animals is an “error”? What were they expecting, ice spiders? Was a wight giant not enough?
I mean, I wanted to see flocks of wight chickens vs. The Hound but you won’t see me whinging about their absence.
Ten Bears,
Yes, that was one of the critiques. It wasn’t the only nit pick either.
The wight chickens vs. the Hound sounds like a spin-off idea, lol.
Young Dragon,
Those answers were brilliant. Bravo for all the work you put into it as well. I searched the thread and could not find the questions. Where did you get them? I could have used some of those answers to questions (some quite foolish) I discussed elsewhere with disgruntled ‘fans’. Very impressed. Yours sincerely, SRR
Jack Bauer 24,
Most people didn’t enjoy the finale and think it was rushed not built up enough ruined character arcs etc. Even those who thought was okay but had some questions thought it rude that the showrunners skipped inside the episode thoughts never gave an interview now ditch comic Con. Is leaving bad taste in the mouth of many. Me, I don’t care anymore I shouldn’t have went against my values to watch a series with such gratuitous violence sex and nudity but I just got carried into the story so I set that aside but since there was no payoff it taught me is not worth to do that again.
Chump Force 1,
You would think so. I’m remembering even before the finale aired they said they going to be far from the internet with plenty of wine or something like that and we’ve heard nothing from them since. I feel that is for sure a sign that either they knew the fanbase were going to be disappointed OR they were just well and truly “over it”. If the latter, I wonder why have that attitude at that point u are home free and u had dedicated fanbase for almost a decade why u want to wipe your hands of the people who made you all that money and made u household name in the business? Without us where would they be right now? Certainly not as wealthy or as famous.
Enharmony1625,
The best it can be? I guess that’s a matter of opinion but I know they could have done better because in the past, they have. The biggest problem was that it was rushed so things that needed to be shown to make the conclusion satisfactory were not shown but things which weren’t neccesary were in place of that.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
At first I was thinking it’s all internet bluster by faceless harmless nerds on the net but reading through some of your guys’posts remind me just what kind of world in which we now live and yes threats do need be taken seriously because there seem to be more unhinged people out there than ever before. I’m old enough to remember a time before the internet took hold. Life was much simpler and comparatively safer back then.
Enharmony1625,
Many of us have always “taken agency” over our own sexuality. Millennials may not realize it’s not an exclusive new thing to their generation. However it is probably true that Gen Z was the first to fully do so.
Is it
Mango,
Aww I’m feeling bad for D and D now. Yes in many peoples opinion they messed up something much looked forward to but they are still human beings with feelings and they did give us a great many years of enjoyment.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Thank you. They are from a YouTube video “Every Error in Season 8.”
About the Seth Rogen. Personally I don’t find him funny, and if I find him funny on his panel it would be the first. It comes more over for me: GoT got backlash from fans. Well lets make joke about them to gain fans myself. And as sad above, many other panels spoke highly about GoT, people who had a better career and better movies/ shows made. And if you need to take another’s work down, it comes over for me that nothing important can be said about your own work.
Ten Bears,
XDXDXD I would love to see that.
kevin1989,
I remember that showrunner of Vikings was critizing GoT several years ago. GoT is that big and everyone has opinion about it. Even celebrities.
mau,
I love Vikings but it’s nothing compared to GoT. And they shouldn’t throw bricks when they will make a mess themselves later on. Season 5 was vikings which contained about 20 episodes contained maybe 2 or 3 good episodes the rest was bad. And rated worse then season 8 op GoT. That’s why I also have big respect for D&D they never attacked other shows or people working on it. They are always highly respectable.
kevin1989,
I mean they are on top. They don’t need to attack anyone. They created the biggest show on television and now they will work with biggest movie studio in the world. No reason to be frustrated.
So true!
An audience has emotional exposure to the storyteller. Storytellers have a responsibility to their audience. There is a “trust” between the parties even if it is over an electronic medium. The story does not have to get the ending that the audience hoped for but the story/ending should not betray this trust – betray its audience or characters or the narrative. Storytellers inadvertently do that when they try to be too clever or are just bad storytellers. So they F*cked up – they are not the first nor the last persons to do so.
D&D’s careers will continue to flourish. I hope their next projects will be OK. They will get many Emmys for S8 and can enjoy that as well. However, Season 8 is lost – not only because of the fan reaction but the more respected TV critics have also provided scathing feedback. Others have had similar career upsets and gone on to future success. This is a learning event for them – they are adults and will decide what they take away from it.
MotherOfChickens,
They butchered George’s work and are cowards for not facing the music.
Excellent work!
I don’t think I can stomach sitting through 25 minutes of hole-picking, most of which seems to be on flimsy ground given your responses.
Is there a transcript anywhere?
Sister Kisser,
LOOL
Grandmaester Flash,
I don’t believe so, but I don’t blame you for not wanting to watch. I pretty much had to force myself to just to prove a point. I basically knew what it was going to say anyway, so I was prepared.
Young Dragon,
It’s not just the subject matter, it’s also that I prefer reading as it’s much quicker. I can read something much faster than it takes to watch a video of it. There’s also no distraction from accents, background music or unclear diction.
Grandmaester Flash,
I’m with you. It’s one reason I rarely listen to “podcasts” and wish they’d supply written transcripts. For instance, I really enjoyed reading analyses by Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion. However, since they’ve been doing podcasts on “The Ringer” almost exclusively, I haven’t felt like taking the time to listen to them.
I just read your [7/21/19, 1:04 am] post about the EW interview about conditions for an Arya spinoff – after remarking on it under another article this morning.
Sue the Fury,
oh wow!
Grandmaester Flash,
Gotcha. I hope this helps:
1. Error: Why didn’t Danerys react when hearing about Viserion’s resurrection?
Response: Danerys did look concerned after hearing about Viserion, but since she was the leader, she had to keep calm and set an example for her people. If she and Jon began freaking out, everyone would have started panicking.
2. Error: During the reunions, why didn’t characters ask each other what they had been up to?
Response: If every character recapped their story, it would have filled out the rest of the season. Besides, it would have been a terrible viewing experience. We already have the “previously on” segments to deal with this.
3. Error: Why do people simply accept that Bran is no longer Bran?
Response: People do not simply accept that Bran is no longer Bran. They all give him a strange look because they don’t understand what that means. It’s a perfectly acceptable reaction.
4. Error: Why didn’t Arya ask Jon how he was resurrected?
Response: Arya was too busy being excited at having her brother back to ask about his “death.” Those questions can wait.
5. Error: Why does Arya call Sansa “the smartest person she’s ever met?”
Response: Arya came to appreciate Sansa last season and came to realize how effective she was at being lady of Winterfell.
6. Error: How did Euron and the Mountain know that Cersei is saying ok to Euron’s request for sex by just a look?
Response: First Cersei says no to sex, then Euron pleads his case, then Cersei starts walking away only to turn around and give him a pained look. How else was Euron supposed to interpret it? Also, the Mountain has a sixth sense of what Cersei wants. We saw this last season. It’s part of Qyburn’s programming.
7. Error: How did Theon rescue Yara so easily?
Response: Theon was on a stealth mission to save his sister and succeeded. How is this an error?
8. Error: Why did Danerys exonerate Jaime so easily?
Response: Both Brienne and Sansa vouched for Jaime. Besides, Danerys was already willing to accept the Lannisters help last season, so it shouldn’t have taken much to sway her.
9. Error: Why didn’t Danerys mention Jaime charging at her during the Loot Train Battle?
Response: Why would she mention Jaime charging at her? They were at war. Everyone in the room knew it.
10. Error: Why didn’t the other northern lords speak out when Jaime was let off the hook after they wanted his head back in season 2?
Response: Only Lord Karstark wanted Jaime’s head, and the Karstarks weren’t on the best standing at the moment. Even if they did speak out, no one would have listened to them.
11. Error: Why wasn’t Lord Commander Edd present at the war council meeting?
Response: Lord Commander Edd’s presence wasn’t really necessary. Neither were many of the people who did show up.
12. Error: Why didn’t Missandei mention to Grey Worm the butterflies in Naath that carried a disease fatal to non-natives?
Response: When was it mentioned that there were butterflies in Naath that carried a disease fatal to non-natives?
13. Error: Why didn’t Davos take issue with Tyrion bringing up the Battle of the Blackwater where he lost his son?
Response: Tyrion and Davos had already buried the hatchet. Besides, Davos is perfectly aware that the two sides were at war and Tyrion was fighting for his survival. It wasn’t personal.
14. Error: The strategy implemented in The Long Night didn’t make sense.
Response: Yes, the strategy implemented in The Long Night wasn’t great, but battle tactics are very rarely portrayed properly in television shows/movies, including the previous seasons of GOT. I don’t know why some people are only just criticizing it now.
15. Error: Where has Melisandre been all this time?
Response: Melisandre has been deciphering the prophecy, which is why she now knows it’s Arya.
16. Error: Why didn’t the Dothraki react violently to Melisandre lighting up their weapons when they hate magic?
Response: The Dothraki only hate blood magic, not fire magic. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be following fire proof Danerys who has three magical dragons.
17. Error: What happened to the 100,000 Dothraki Danerys had in season 6?
Response: Not all of the Dothraki came with them, only the warriors. Also, they lost Dothraki in the Battle of the Loot Train.
18. Error: They should have used one dragon from the beginning.
Response: They had a plan concerning the dragons. It was laid out in episode 2.
19. Error: Why did they send the Dotrhaki first against the dead?
Response: The Dothraki charged the dead for the same reason they charged the Lannister army in season 7. That’s what they do best.
20. Error: Why are there no animals in the army of the dead?
Response: The no animals in the army of the dead is a nit pick, not an error.
21. Error: Why didn’t Jon and Danerys fall off their dragons when they collided into each other?
Response: Jon and Danerys didn’t fall off their dragons because they held on for dear life.
22. Error: Why didn’t Jon and Rhaegal light the trench?
Response: Jon and Rhaegal were lying in wait for the Night King.
23. Error: What were the wights doing in the library?
Response: The wights are looking for stragglers.
23. Error: How did Arya get out from under the table so quickly?
Response: Arya used her ninja skills to quickly get out from under the table.
24. Error: Why didn’t Danerys give Jon a lift to Bran?
Response: Fair enough about Danerys not giving Jon a lift.
25. Error: How did Jorah teleport to Dany’s side?
Response: Jorah didn’t teleport to Dany’s side, he simply came to her aid.
26. Error: How could the wights punch through the tombs made of stone but not a wooden box last season?
27. Response: Fair enough about wight’s breaking through stone and not brick.
28. Error: How did the characters survive impossible odds?
Response: The characters didn’t survive impossible odds, only perilous situations.
29. Error: Why did Jon leave Sam behind to die?
Response: Jon leaves Sam because he has to get to the Night King to end this.
30. Error: Why did Theon charge at the Night King rather than wait and buy some time?
Response: Buy more time for what? Theon didn’t know about Arya. He was trying to gain forward momentum.
31. Error: How could a broken wooden spear pierce through armor?
Response: A broken wooden spear that’s being wielded by a extraordinarily strong, super natural being.
32. Error: Why did Jon shout at Viserion?
Response: Jon was frustrated and was shouting a suicidal scream.
33. Error: Whyd didn’t they make it more clear if he was distracting Viserion so Arya could enter the godswood?
Response: The reason it wasn’t made clear was because it didn’t happen.
34. Error: Why did it take so long for Viserion to roast Jon?
Response: It’s called “building tension.”
35. Error: How did Arya sneak into the godswood unseen when she had trouble sneaking past the wights in the library?
Response: Arya did not struggle to sneak past wights in the library. She did it quite successfully.
36. Error: Why did Arya scream alerting the Night King to her presence?
Response: It was an involuntary scream
37. Error: Why didn’t the Night King kill Arya right away or disarm her?
Response: Arya acted too quickly for the Night King to do either of those things.
38. Error: Why wasn’t Arya given the same mark as Bran when the Night King grabbed her?
Response: The Night King purposefully put the mark on Bran. Why would he do the same to Arya?
39. Error: The Night King was defeated without us learning his motives.
Response: The Night King’s motives were to kill humanity and all its memory. That was already established.
40. Error: The White Walkers didn’t matter much in the end.
Response: The White Walkers were a driving force for much of the plot.
41. Error: By legitimizing Gendry, Danerys made him heir to the Iron Throne.
Response: No, the Baratheons weren’t the ruling monarchs anymore. The Lannisters were. They were replaced much like the Targaryens before them.
42. Error: Why was Brienne upset when Tyrion asked her about her virginity? Unmarried highborn ladies are supposed to be virgins.
Response: The reason Brienne is a virgin is because she is unmarried. The reason she is unmarried is because the other lords believe her to be ugly. That has always been a sore point for her and that is why she was so upset.
43. Error: Why was Tormund impressed with Jon riding a dragon when he rode a dragon last season
Response: Tormund had no choice to ride Drogon as it was either that or die. Jon made the conscious decision to ride a dragon into battle, which he views as very impressive.
44. Error: Why did Danerys say she has never begged for anything when she begged for her dragon’s safe return in season 2?
Response: Danerys wouldn’t be the first person to say that she hasn’t begged for anything when she has. She doesn’t consider herself to be a beggar, so this dialogue isn’t at all odd.
45. Error: How did they only lose half their army?
Response: Considering how big the army was, losing half is quite a lot.
46. Error: Benioff said that it was the end of the Dothraki.
Response: What the showrunners say doesn’t matter. All that matters is what they put on the screen.
47. Error: Why didn’t Arya offer to assassinate Cersei?
Response: That was her plan, and she didn’t want Jon to try and stop her.
48. Error: Why didn’t Tyrion or Davos suggest using secret tunnels to assassinate Cersei in the Red Keep?
Response: Assassinating Cersei is seen as dishonorable, and Tyrion was tryig to spare Cersei and her unborn child.
49. Error: Why were Sansa and Arya still against Danerys after she saved them from the White Walkers?
Response: The fight against the dead was Dany’s fight too. They shouldn’t have had to give up northern independence to gain her help.
50. Error: Jon betrayed Ned’s memory for spilling the beans on his parentage, a secret that Ned took to his grave
Response: Jon did not betray Ned’s memory by telling his family the truth. The only reason Ned kept it a secret was to keep Jon safe from Robert, and that was no longer an issue.
51. Error: Why was Rhaegal injured but not Drogon?
Response: Drogon shook the wights off before they could do extensive damage.
52. Error: Why didn’t Jon say goodbye to Ghost?
Response: Jon was going through an identity crisis, which is why he didn’t pet Ghost. He didn’t feel like a Stark anymore.
53. Error: Why were Tyrion and Jaime allowed to go to a northern inn without being accompanied by guards?
Response: Why would the Lannisters be guarded? They were both Stark allies, and one was even Hand of the Queen.
54. Error: How was Bronn able to load the crossbow so quickly?
Response: Joffrey explained that his crossbow was much easier to load.
55. Error: Why did Bronn accept the deal with Tyrion without any gurantee?
Response: The guarantee is that a Lannister always pays his debts.
56. Error: Why didn’t Danerys scout enemy territory?
Response: Danerys was scouting on top of Drogon and Rhaegal.
57. Error: How did Danerys not see the ships?
Response: The ships were hidden behind rocks.
58. Error: Benioff said that Danerys forgot about the Irion Fleet.
Response: What the showrunners say doesn’t matter. All that matters is what they put on the screen.
59. Error: How could Drogon dodge the bolts when Rhaegal couldn’t?
Response: Drogon knew the bolts were coming. Rhaegal did not.
60. Error: Why didn’t Danerys attack the ships from behind?
Response: The scorpions were on a swivel and could turn around.
61. Error: Why didn’t Euron pursue the men who washed up on the beach?
Response: Euron didn’t have the men for that and Drogon was still in play.
62. Error: Why would Varys discuss treason in an open hall?
Response: There was no one else in that hall.
63. Error: Why would Varys turn on Danerys?
Response: Varys is always looking for the best ruler. Jon was the better choice for the reasons Varys gave.
64. Error: Jaime had told Bran that he had changed, but he decided to go back to Cersei, showing he hasn’t changed at all.
Response: Jaime has changed. He’s no longer the type of man who throws children out of windows. His love for Cersei may not have changed, but that was never the problem. It was the things he did in the name of that love, but he doesn’t do those things anymore.
65. Error: How did Dany’s army arrive faster than Arya and the Hound?
Response: They were on ships, which is a faster way of travel.
66. Error: Why didn’t Cersei attack them?
Response: It was a parlay, where there are rules.
67. Error: Why didn’t Cersei give the order to kill Tyrion?
Response: Again, it was a parlay. Cersei wanted to portray herself as a good ruler, so her hands were tied.
68. Error: Euron didn’t seem surprised that Tyrion knew about “his” baby even though there was no way he could have known that.
Response: Varys could have told him. Also, Euron isn’t the brightest bulb.
69. Error: Why didn’t Missandei attempt to kill Cersei?
Response: Missandei has never killed anyone before and that would have gone against her character.
70. Error: What happened to the letters Varys wrote?
Response: The letters never got out.
71. Error: Why did Varys try to openly commit treason with Jon?
Response: He wanted to get Jon on board his plan to make it much smoother.
72. Error: Why did Tyrion betray Varys?
Response: Tyrion was being loyal to his queen after seeing that Varys was really going through with it.
73. Error: Why did Tyrion stop Varys from committing treason, then commit treason himself by freeing Jaime?
Response: That’s entirely different. Freeing Jaime and having him get Cersei to surrender would have benefitted Danerys greatly.
74. Error: Why did Jaime say he didn’t care about the people of King’s Landing?
Response: Jaime was in a very dark place then and was acting the man he thought he was rather than the man that he is.
75. Error: In season 2, Davos said the bells didn’t mean surrender.
Response; Fair enough about the bells.
76. Error: Why didn’t Jon comfort Danerys about Rhaegal?
Response: Jon comforted Danerys about Missandei instead.
77. Error: Euron’s crew are mutes, but we hear some men shouting in his fleet.
Response: Euron’s crew are mutes, but the commanding officers on the other boats are not. After all, how would they be able to give orders?
78. Error: How was Drogon able to dodge all the bolts but not Rhaegal?
Response: Rhaegal didn’t know the attack was coming, Drogon does.
79. Error: How were battle weary northern, Dothraki, and Unsullied show no signs of fatigue?
Response: They had a month of rest.
80. Error: It was out of charcter for Danerys to burn down King’s Landing.
Response: Danerys proclaimed the citizens of King’s Landing “not innocent” and wanted to “rule them with fear.” It was completely in character.
81. Error: In season 7, Danerys said she didn’t want to be the Queen of the Ashes.
Response: You can’t use a clip from an earlier season to try and point out mischaracterizations in the current season while leaving out everything that happened in between.
82. Error: How did Jaime teleport to the beach?
Response: Jaime didn’t teleport. He walked.
83. Error: How did the boat get there?
Response: Davos delivered the boat. That was the favor Tyrion asked of him.
84. Error: Dany’s rampage on King’s Landing gave Cersei time to escape. It was only luck that Dany got her.
Response: Yes, it was lucky that Danerys got Cersei. But luck isn’t an error.
85. Error: How did Arya get Strickland’s horse after we saw it get blasted with dragon fire?
Response: That wasn’t the same horse. It was symbolic.
86. Error: Why did Cersei and Jaime embrace after what they did to each other?
Response: None of that matters when the world is literally falling on top of them.
87. Error: What sorcery made the Mountain indestructible?
Response: No, the sorcery wasn’t specified, but so what? It rarely is in fantasy.
88. Error: Euron’s line about killing Jaime Lannister proves to be false.
Response: Yes, Euron’s line turns out to be false, but why does that matter?
89. Error: Arya rides off, seeming to have completed her arc, but Ilyn Payne might still be alive.
Response: Ilyn Payne is no longer on the show and has been off her list for a while.
90. Error: Danerys taking King’s Landing with a dragon makes her season 7 arc pointless.
Response: The reason she didn’t use her dragons from the beginning was because then she still cared about the people’s opinion of her and didn’t want to look like a conqueror. Besides, she would have had to ride Drogon and attack King’s Landing alone. All it would have taken was one lucky shot by a Lannister archer and the war would have been over.
91. Error: Grey Worm teleported to Dany’s side.
Response: Fair enough about Grey Worm.
92. Error: Why does Dany suddenly want to conquer the world?
Response: She’s embraced herself as a conqueror and liberator, rather than a ruler, just like Daario has said. Her priorities have changed.
93. Error: Why didn’t Danerys execute Tyrion for treason?
Response: Tyrion’s execution was coming, as was addressed in the show.
94. Error: How did Arya know Cersei was dead without confirmation?
Response: Arya didn’t know about Tyrion’s escape plan. She just knows that the Red Keep was demolished and most of the city was destroyed.
95. Error: Arya being present in King’s Landing didn’t serve the story at all.
Response: Arya’s presence in King’s Landing was about her character, not the story.
96. Error: Why was Jon allowed to meet with Tyrion alone?
Response: Jon is Warden of the North and outranks all the Unsullied.
97. Error: Why was Jon allowed to be with Danerys in the throne room alone?
Response: Jon has been alone with Danerys plenty of times before.
98. Error: Why did Drogon melt the Iron Throne and not kill Jon?
Response: Dragons are smart, maybe even smarter than humans. That was established in season 6. He knew it was her obsession that killed her. Besides, Jon is the last Targaryen.
99. Error: Why didn’t Grey Worm kill Jon?
Response: This is addressed as well. If Grey Worm had executed Jon, the North would have declared war. Grey Worm didn’t want to sacrifice anymore of his Unsullied so he kept Jon prisoner until they could reach an agreement.
100. Error: Why didn’t the Dothraki stick around and avenge their queen?
Response: The Dothraki only follow strength. How many of them stayed behind when Khale Drogo died.
100. Error: We could see an outline of Grey Worm’s penis through his pants.
Response: It’s been confirmed that Grey Worm only lost his balls.
101. Error: Why was Tyrion able to decide the process in choosing he next king?
Response: Tyrion was making a suggestion, which the other lords agreed to.
102. Error: Why was Yara laughing at the idea of a democracy when the ironborn have the Kingsmoot?
Response: The Kingsmoot is where the lords of the ironborn vote, not the common people
103. Error: Why didn’t Yara and the Dornish prince ask for independence as well?
Response; Yara gave up ironborn independence when she declared she would take back the Iron Islands in Queen Dany’s name. Dorne has never once expressed their desire for independence.
104. Error: Why didn’t anyone suggest Gendry as king?
Response: The Baratheons no longer have a claim to the throne.
105. Error: Why did the Stormlords accept a bastard as their liege lord?
Response: He’s the last Baratheon, so they have no choice but to accept him
106. Error: Why didn’t Sam suggest Jon as king?
Response: Jon killed Danerys. Grey Worm would never allow him to be king, so why bring it up at all?
107. Error: Jon being in the North could lead to civil war between him and Sansa
Response: No, Jon and Sansa will not go to civil war.
108. Response: The rest of the criticisms about the dragon pit are minor nit picks.
109. Error: What is the point of the Night’s Watch now?
Response: Tyrion explains the Night’s Watch new purpose.
110. Error: How could the Six Kingdoms send prisoners to the Night’s Watch when they are located in the North?
Response: Sending prisoners to the Night’s Watch isn’t going to be a problem. Just because the North is independent doesn’t mean they are on friends.
111. Error: How will Grey Worm know the kingdoms will uphold Jon’s banishment after he leaves.
Response: Jon is an honorable man and will accept his punishment. Grey Worm knows this.
112. Error: How was Tyrion not mentioned in the maester’s book?
Response: Tyrion has always been overlooked
113. Error: Why did Tyrion uphold Bronn’s deal?
Response: Tyrion upholds Bronn’s deal because a Lannister always pays their debts.
114. Error: Why is Bronn master of coin if he doesn’t know how loans work?
Response: Tyrion was also inexperienced in handling money when he was appointed master of coin. Also, Littlefinger didn’t quite know how loans worked as he borrowed a shit ton of money without paying it back.
115. Error: How is Sam Grandmaester when he is sworn to the Night’s Watch?
Response: The Night’s Watch has a new purpose and Sam is no longer bound to them.
116. Error: Brienne swore her life to Sansa:
Response: Sansa doesn’t need Brienne anymore and released her of her vow. Brienne can now honor Jaime’s memory.
117. Error: Why does the council need a master of whisperers and why can’t Bran find Drogon?
Response: He said he’ll find Drogon himself after the council failed. Master of whisperers would simply fill out the small council.
118. Error: Why is Tormund still at Castle Black and not North of the Wall?
Response: Tormund said they’ll wait for the winter stroms to pass at Castle Black before heading North.
Young Dragon,
Thank you very much for that! I shall peruse it with even greater attention now.
Young Dragon,
I have a few comments to add to yours.
34. Viserion was wounded and unable to control the direction of his fire, which could be seen leaking out of his wounds.
43. Tormund was only a passenger which is an important difference.
51. And Drogon has always been the strongest of the dragons.
59. Plus Rhaegal was still recovering from his wounds, so he was slower.
69. At this point I would have asked why Cersei didn’t keep Missandei alive as a hostage!
I suppose the answer is that (as Tywin said) Cersei isn’t as clever as she thinks she is, and it’s another example of her cruelty.
85. There would have been plenty of Dothraki horses running loose. I assumed it was one of those.
103. I thought Dorne was autonomous anyway, but as it is part of Westeros they would be included in the council.
Bunch of snowflake cop outs. Not surprised one bit they’d puss out. Odds of them getting attacked physically 0. Odds of them facing the music and hearing how they blew it…. well..
Not nil. Had you spent weeks reading the spewing hate and the threats (including physical threatsI), you’d know. Even now, both continue. The majority of those idiots were merely venting or just posting in jest. And with SDCC security, it was be hard to carry out any kind of true attack, even a symbolic one (signs, boos, shame bells, Harpy hisses, etc). But not impossible considering American history of such occurrences. Should D&D have carried on regardless? I think not. It was safest that they pull out, even though the yobs would immediately label them”Cowards!”. Then the discussion was about how to slate D&D without making the cast feel THEY were being attacked. Oh, yes, there’s also been some discussion of carrying out protests or something at the Emmy ceremony. Over a television show!!! What has the world come to?
Still doubtful? Perhaps you missed a Redditor’s snapshot of some of the vitriol. It was posted here a few days ago by mau,
https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/cfiggw/users_in_rfreefolk_are_pissed_that_stranger/euac1ce/
I salute you for watching the video and responding to it all. xD It’s longish, so clearly the responses had to be succinct. I was, as I said, able to come up with explanations for some. For the most part the video was excellent and expressed its points very well. Individually others could be easily overlooked or forgiven. But when taken all together in one short, final season…oy. Much still strikes me as unconfirmed assumptions, wishful thinking, insufficiency, reaching for logic that should’ve been less dubious in the first place, not necessarily accurate, etc. Certain things you might not know unless you were a book-reader, and the title is also slightly misleading in that not everything is precisely a straight-up “error,” per se–many points were just perplexing, questionable matters. E.g., the lack of animal wights–not a flat-out error, no. Still, you can certainly ask, “Didn’t you kinda create expectations of that since the first season? I know CGI is expensive af and even this show has to pick and choose, but after Old Nan’s tales, mammoths, wolves, polar bears…the army finally shows up and there’s not one ice spider? Really?” Obviously there needed to be an accelerated pace and sense of urgency, so there wouldn’t be *as much* time spent allowing things to grow and develop with enriching scenes for which, in the past, there’d have been time. Room for more answers, details, people, story threads. But so many things went unaddressed, or too quickly & were simplified or carelessly disregarded just because “we only gave ourselves six episodes to wrap it all up.” The difference was jarring to the point where, by the fourth episode, it was as if another series had come on.
-Aside from the gratitude that the northerners really should feel toward Dany, I could fairly well understand her unwillingness to relinquish such a large one of the Seven Kingdoms. She was trying to be the kind of queen people would want, and Jon saw that in her, which is why he bent the knee.
-Too many characters, some of whom weren’t the best fighters, somehow mysteriously survived the most perilous of situations for too long through the magic of plot armor. Perhaps that might have been avoided were the season not divided so cleanly in half. “Okay let’s take care of the Night King, check, now Cersei–and Dany, muahaha–check, aaannnd quick aftermath, yay!” Yes, I’m aware of the CG expense and how crazy the 55 nights of shooting already were, but I just…can you even imagine how incredible it would’ve been to watch Winter sweep down over the land, to see Cersei forced to contend with the AotD and the NK/WWs to engage in battle, for the two main endgame plot lines to intertwine…there is the prequel for similar things I suppose, but it doesn’t include the characters who’ve been so beloved for the past eight years.
-Euron was some lucky SOB correctly interpreting that supposed “come-to-bed” look Cersei gave him. xD Jaime’s love for her…I found problematic in and off itself primarily because she was so horrible, manipulative, and abusive.
-Figured the old crypts must’ve gotten soft and crumbly vs. the sturdy crate. *shrug* Hard to resist raising those corpses, but it didn’t even pay off–no recognizable wights anywhere, and all the named characters survived with bizarre ease. Even clueless Sansa, dash it all. -.-
-I could see Jaime’s motivation for killing Aerys having been the protection of the Lannisters rather than everybody else as well, so that line didn’t bug me.
-I’d have at least made Arya’s “symbolic” horse a different color; I didn’t necessarily assume it was supposed to be Strickland’s, but get why people did. That bit went wastefully nowhere anyhow… “…Didja forget about the horse?” “I forgot about the horse, she forgot about the horse–it’s a very forgettable horse!” >D
-They had a plan to attempt, although it was one that could easily fail and leave them screwed.
-Of course Arya succeeded in escaping the library, but it was difficult. Assuming that just being touched by the NK doesn’t mark you unless he wills it…super-stealth-ninja-warrior assassins who’ve been sent on world-saving missions…emit involuntary screams, alerting death incarnate of their attacks, so he can turn around and…catch them, hold them, look at them, without instantly snapping their necks? Wait, wtf? Smdh…and if Bran knew Arya was on the way but didn’t stop Theon from pointlessly throwing his life away, that’s one more thing I have against him.
-Assassination is “dishonorable,” but wars that cost thousands of lives and cause civilian suffering are preferable? K. Personally I think you’d look pretty great making an effort to precision-target Cersei.
-Euron’s mute crew was one note I hadn’t even picked up on, but I guess I figured they must use sign language to communicate.
-Brienne’s oath to Sansa likewise didn’t register, perhaps due to my loathing of Sansa. In the past we might’ve gotten some parting bit as Brienne joins the Kingsguard down south rather than remaining with the sister up north. Not a huge deal, but another thing that made me go “OH YEAH…!”
-Varys used to be so clever and covert, but suddenly was openly and prematurely discussing treason in spaces where anyone could’ve approached and overheard at any moment.
-Is it actually possible for neither dragon nor their rider to have spotted any of Euron’s ships, yet for his scorpion to have been poked out just enough to get such perfect aim at Rhaegal from that distance, to hit him thrice? While watching I just kind of accepted it because I was caught up in the horror of his death. But afterward I read things which forced me to question the plausibility of the attack she “kind of forgot” could occur. And although the scorpions could swivel, mightn’t she have been able to blast the ships before they could load and haul those things around?
-There’s a first time for everything; Missandei’s just never HAD to kill anybody before. Best thing she could’ve done would be to take Cersei out for her queen, or at least try, rather than simply standing there passive-aggressively and getting beheaded.
-Doesn’t really seem possible to avoid mentioning Tyrion when writing the history, though it was a very funny burn on him.
-Those Dany lines were in-character for the pod-person Daenerys who appeared in roughly the last episode-and-a-half, sure! Only in the last season did I see, I swear SEE, the writers’ handprints…using the characters as puppets, making them say and do uncharacteristically stupid things to enable the necessary plot to unfold…grabbing Drogon like an action figure and zig-zagging him all over King’s Landing (would that they could’ve given Rickon that skill!), pressing the “Dracarys” button on the back of his neck…Dx< Giving Dany's true enemy, the reason her other children were dead, the chance to try and escape.
-After what happened there though, it did seem a bit odd for Dany to be unguarded.
Etc.
Spot-on, Ygritte & Wolfdragon.
Shelle,
I have not watched the video and will not.
But I noted that many of the responses provided by YDragon did not seem to be well-grounded/reasoned. That often happens when you are trying to support/excuse the messy, inconsistent writing – the audience has to make up random and/or generous explanations for what was actually shown.
Interesting exchange.
Mango,
My responses pointed out all the criticisms made by the video were either nip pick or plain wrong and that the writing in season 8 wasn’t inconsistent at all. If you would like to point out exactly how my responses are “unfounded” be my guess. Otherwise, you’re using empty words. Also,if you would like to comment on one of my comments, try responding to me directly. Otherwise, it’s just cowardly.
Young Dragon,
Part 1 of 2*
I thought your responses to the alleged “errors” video were comprehensive and excellent.
* My rank speculation (about the reasons for “dropped” story lines and unresolved mysteries) to follow…
Shelle,
“…in the past, there’d have been time. Room for more answers, details, people, story threads. But so many things went unaddressed, or too quickly & were simplified or carelessly disregarded just because “we only gave ourselves six episodes to wrap it all up.” The difference was jarring to the point where, by the fourth episode, it was as if another series had come on.”
________
In Part 2 of my 9:26 am Comment, I’m going to try to outline my percolating theory/wild guess for this jarring shift.
Hasn’t it been established that Bran cannot see the future? He can see the past, and he can look to see what’s happening somewhere else in the present.
So he could possibly “go” and see what Arya was up to, but he wouldn’t have known what the outcome would be until it happened. And he doesn’t seem to be consciously in two places at once, so if he was watching Arya he couldn’t be watching Theon as well, and vice versa.
I’ve touched on this before, but even if Bran could see the future (at least some glimpses of it), he either couldn’t or wouldn’t intervene. It’s been established that he can’t change the past (“the ink is dry”), and that probably implies the future as well. Again, even if he could for the sake of argument, it would be far too dangerous, and this has definitely been implied by the previous 3ER to not go meddling with time. Bran very much takes the stance of what was meant to happen will happen (e.g. when he tells Jon “You were exactly where you were supposed to be.”).
So. Even if Bran could see Theon would die by the NK, that’s what was supposed to happen. Even if he could intervene to save Theon, would that result in someone else’s death instead? Or some other unforeseen calamity? Really, it’s abundantly clear that Bran is a bystander; an observer.
I do wish the new king had been better explained. 8-/
I don’t know…people seemed to think that he knew Arya was going to be the one to kill the NK. (I say it only made sense to give her the dagger. “Smart” Sansa apparently doesn’t even know what to do with one.)
If he *can* see certain future events but not take any actions to prevent the worst ones from coming to pass…that’s a pretty useless ability…and even if he can’t, it seems he still did very little to help anybody (besides himself, who wound up crowned thanks to the course of events precipitated by having Sam reveal Jon’s parentage at a rather lousy time…) Argh.