Almost beyond any shadow of a doubt, the next season of Game of Thrones will be out before the sixth book of A Song of Ice and Fire. Just how much of the existing story is there left to tell on the show? As readers, how spoiled will we be in a year when season five airs? This post aims to look at the show’s progress compared to the books, and try to provide some answers.
Some blurred lines notwithstanding, the seasons of GoT have corresponded well enough to the books, with the past two seasons covering the enormity that is A Storm of Swords (Book 3), incorporating the beginnings of certain storylines from subsequent books as well (which was pretty much the case in every season, but much more so in the latest).
Season five will therefore be based on the material from A Feast for Crows (B4) and A Dance with Dragons (B5), whose timelines run concurrently. I provide a rough count of the chapters left to be covered below. Mind that the numbers really are rough estimates only (so don’t get too hung up on them), but they should still give us a decent enough idea to answer the questions above.
[Spoiler note: I wrote this post in a non-spoilery manner, so that it is accessible to the Unsullied. However, the comments are bound to be ripe with spoilers, so steer clear of the comment section if you haven’t read the books.]
First, let us look at the northern storylines:
- Jon: 16 (2 + 0 + 14)
- Sam: 6 (6 + 0)
- Davos: 4 (0 + 4)
- Theon: 5 (0 + 5)
- Iron Islands (Asha/Yara and other characters): 10 (5 + 5)
Jon Snow’s storyline is the only one where we still have a couple of chapters left to cover from A Storm of Swords (B3). The bulk of his story will come from A Dance with Dragons (B5). Sam and Gilly’s story is of course related, and now Davos (with Stannis and Melisandre) is found in the same locale. Theon moved towards Winterfell with the Boltons at the end of last season, while Yara is still around somewhere, though it remains to be seen how her story is going to get adapted. Although I believe that a large chunk of the story that the Iron Islands could provide will remain off-screen, or get otherwise condensed, there is more than enough material in these chapters to see us through season five.
What about the situation in the south and across the Narrow Sea?
- King’s Landing (Cersei, Jaime, and more): 20 (16 + 4)
- Dorne: 5 (4 + 1)
- Tyrion: 12 (0 + 12)
- Meereen (Daenerys, Barristan): 11 (0 + 11)
- New characters/storylines: 6 (0 + 6)
- Arya: 5 (3 + 2)
George R.R. Martin dedicated a lot of chapters to King’s Landing. Although we have learned that Jaime will get involved in other storylines as well, in what is a deviation from the books, there will be a lot happening in the capital. Tyrion’s story will be another pillar of the season arc, as will be the goings-on in Meereen. Throw in a new location (Dorne), a couple of new characters with separate storylines (we have so far heard no confirmation of those, though), and Arya sailing to Braavos, and there is enough plot to last us a season.
Some “problematic” storylines remain, though:
- Brienne: 2 (2 + 0)
- Sansa: 1 (1 + 0)
- Bran: 1 (0 + 1)
Only with a lot of generosity can we find four chapters between these three POV characters that have not been covered on the show yet. Brienne’s storyline (and in part, to a much lesser extent, Sansa’s) deviated from the book content far enough that some original inventions will be necessary to bring it back to the (yet unknown) point where it matches the book canon. It is quite possible that these subplots will not be visited too often in the course of the new season, but when we see these three characters next year, chances are rather high that we will be spoiled – depending on how much of the story is shown, and how much it deviates from the (future) books, of course.
Marko says: As we have seen, the remaining material in the books can and will provide fuel for an entire new season, though beyond that, little – if anything at all – will remain to be covered. The storylines featuring Brienne, Sansa, and Bran are an exception, but I could live with getting somewhat spoiled with regard to those characters next season. However, I dearly hope, and with good reason, that I will be able to read The Winds of Winter (B6) before season six airs in 2016.
What are your thoughts? Comment below (and please share this post with the rest of the interwebz).
Hodor!
I couldn’t resist, my first one on this site 🙂
This comment section will be good
Imo Bran’s storyline shouldn’t be much of a problem. Ever since I saw season one, I hoped D&D would use Bran’s stay with BR (where not much happened) to explore the background of the current conflict. The ToJ sequence alone (cut from Ned’s PoV in the first book) would be riveting to see on screen, but they could throw in hints to Joramun, Gendell & Gorn, the Blackfyre Rebellions, AA, etc.
Brienne will obviously have differences from the books, but if they pull something similar to the Hound and Arya from last year with her and Pod, she could be fine for a season. But yeah, Sansa and Bran basically have one scene left each.
I think the showrunners will be doing themselves a disservice if they cut Iron Islands and Oldtown.
I think we will be safe until next summer, when season 6 starts shooting.
Brienne and Sansa have characters to meet and interact with.
Bran will be our window to the past.
Great article. I’m not too concerned for this season. It’s season 6 I’m worried about.
Bran can have a whole season of learning to use different aspects of his gifts. Progressing from warging, greenseering, to Treevision
The only storyline that is truly in question is Sansa.
“What about the situation in the south and across the Narrow Sea?”
Azad Injejikian,
Hi Azad! Looking forward to publishing more of your work 🙂
Such an interesting topic!
I agree with you on the three character arcs you highlighted… I have no idea what they will be doing with them!
I doubt Brienne will do a similar journey as in the books. They may even find a way to work Brienne into Sansa’s arc… If so is that a sign of what is to come in the future books?
Bran’s book story never interested me until he met Bloodraven/ The 3-Eyed Crow. Now that the initial meeting has happened I look forward to see where the series takes Bran. We could end up getting a lot of needed exposition about the past, maybe even some flashback like visions or green dreams!
There will be so much cut in King’s Landing!
I am interested to see exactly
I’m not sure I see it happening like that, but it would be much more streamlined and Cersei’s Season 5 arc will be much leaner than the books!
jentario,
My thoughts exactly! XD
This should hit triple digit posts quickly I bet…..
Veltigar,
I think you’re right. Bran has one chapter left, but it’s packed with potential expansions and of course original additions such as the ToJ scene. They can definitely carry a season with him and his many visions and cryptic convos with the Three Eyed Raven. I’m sure there will be spoilery implications to Bran’s arc in season 5 and a couple of non-subtle hints but I doubt we’ll see any major spoilers from him (except maybe the ToJ or something of that type).
I expect major spoilers from Sansa and Stannis.
Team Reek & Ramsay only appeared in 3 episodes in season 4.
It would suck for the actors, but they should have Team Sansa, Team Bran & (ugh) Team boring Brienne in only 3 episodes in Season 5.
As we enjoy reading The World of Ice & Fire this winter, know GRRM spent time working on it RATHER than writing TWOW.
Wow 10 Iron Island Chapters that’s more than I thought. I’m pretty sure most of that will be cut as we don’t have Victorian and Euron. I’m trying to figure what would be a bigger disappointment, no Greyjoy brothers or no Jon Conn and Young Griff. Probably the latter as they are important to Tyrion’s story
I heard a rumour that on Ice and Fire convention in Poland polish publisher mentioned that he and Martin had a discussion and Martin said that he intents to sends manuscripts to his publisher in January 2015.
I think that Oldtown will be saved for season 6. It’s basically just introduced in Feast, the real story is only going to start in Winds.
jentario,
Why would we get spoilers from Stannis? He has a ton of book material left to adept
While I don’t mind being Unsullied for some of the storylines in season 5, especially Sansa who had her last chapter released 9 years ago with AFfC, just as Marko I still hope that The Winds of Winter will be released before season 6 premieres. Though it could be exciting, I would still rather be a Sullied if possible. The thing is that no matter what, we will all be Unsullied when season 7 and maybe 8 airs…
I do hope they bring us the ToJ (preferably with Sean Bean). One of my favorite scenes in the entire series and I have been waiting to see it ever since I knew the show was going to be made.
I’m glad they didn’t show it in season one, where it would have lost some of its edge I think, but a version of it should pop up in this show somewhere and Bran’s arc is the most logical place.
Turncloak,
It’s the latter for me definitely!
I think the show laid the groundwork to cutting Victarion completely last year. So I am prepared for that lready. I’m not sure Euron will feature in the endgame of the TV series at all. So he could be cut as well.
Until I hear news about Griff or young Griff I am assuming they will be cut as well.
I do not buy the arguments centering on Varys’s motivations whatsoever and Tyrion can find enough to do for one season quite easily without that Griff arc.
That said, I would miss the characters and what they could bring to the TV series!
Not all of Jaime’s chapters
Most of Victarion’s chapters take place at sea or the Shield Islands however, so they’re not part of the “northern” (North/Iron Islands) storylines.
If Aegon conquer King’s Landing (which is very likely) I doubt he will be cut. But Connigton, well, that is another thing.
Truthfully, giving Sansa even that one chapter may have been generous.
A Man Grown,
I don’t think they will cut Oldtown, but I don’t see a reason for it to appear in this season. Remember that Sam will have to stay at the wall for a couple of episodes until the election is done, so he will not get to Braavos right away.
When it comes to Brienne, I think they will use her storyline to expose the beginning of the Sparrow movement just like in the books, but apart from that I don’t know. LSH is still a possibility (comments from the director and producers may have been purposefully vague).
In that case, they will probably get a little into winds of winter territory with this storyline (and remember that GRRM wrote a Sansa chapter for aDwD that was moved to tWoW). But I don’t think we will see much of it.
The end point of the season is also an interesting topic.
Did anyone ever think about this?…
HBO gave D&D the green light for seasons 5 & 6 – the first time they guaranteed 2 more seasons to them. I wonder if they are filming scenes for both seasons at the same time and will later decide how to piece it all together.
I agree with almost anything said above. Sansas arc will probably be the most spoilerish.
As for Brienne, I think there’s still a lot of space left to edit and rearrange her storyline. In aFfC there’s a lot happening in the Riverlands and there’s quite a few characters there.
I’m at least expecting to see Gendry turn up somewhere next season. Possibly in Kings Landing, but it’s more likely he’ll turn up in Brienne’s storyline which should give them material for one or two episodes at least.
Hear Marko Roar,
HA! Thanks, I can’t wait to set up my new home studio to create some content. I have a 6 page(!) Jaime’s adventures in Dorne comic I started, but havent been able to touch for a month (I moved and everything is still in boxes).
On topic: GRRM has (mostly) cleared his schedule for the year. I’m confident he’ll get TWOW out for season 6. Unless he runs into Meereenese Knot v2.0
I’m really looking forward to being Unsullied. One of my absolute favourite scenes last Season was the glimpse beyond the Wall at [possibly] the Night’s King. I’d love to see them being brought in a little more. Perhaps within Bran’s storyline.
I have a feeling that the Riverlands arc is going to be trimmed, if not cut completely. I can’t say I’d mind too much. The only thing I’d personally miss is Blackfish vs Jaime – and that seems unlikely anyway, given Blackfish’s disappearance post-RW.
What can I say? I can’t wait to see how things play out. Then reading how everything fits together in the book.
Fingers crossed that they tell some backstory highlights via Bran’s growing abilities. In particular the ToJ and the hints at Jon’s parentage. It seems like such a good opportunity. After the House of Undying scenes played out I began to wonder if Jon’s lineage will matter for the show plot – or the book plot for that matter.
My tent is pitched in camp Team Sansa. Hoping they will use the season to show her growing saavy as a playuh, although the events used as a backdrop to show her development may be manufactured.
Brienne? I got nothin’.
Darquemode,
I can’t believe the Griff’s are entirely cut. It’s all but certain that
.
That’s way to major an event to cut from the show. Additionally, a Sand Snake could take the role in Season Six. Dorne’s gotta do something for the last two books, so this storyline probably has too much importance to cut outright.
Added to which, they name dropped a major part of it frequently in Season 4.
It’s entirely feasible however, that the storyline plays out in conversation until Season Six, with the Season 4 part of it suddenly appearing in Westeros and going from there.
And hey, we gotta get Euron at least one of these days. It would be cool if A Man did what many of us suspect he will in Season 5,
Hey, something has gotta happen with that. It was set up in Season 3, but it is possible for it to be executed quickly in Season Six.
Nice. We finally have some tits on this site with the Bad Idea T shirt ad.
I think TWOW will be out spring/summer 2016, to coincide with Season 6.
By the way, that hypothetical book cover is awesome. It should be submitted to the publishers to be the official cover.
There are only 5 Dorne chapters? It’s admittedly been a while since I read AFfC, but the way people bitch and moan about Dorne you would think it was half the book. Maybe they can cover all of Dorne this year and then bring in the Iron Islands for S6.
Sometimes I need to remind myself that the show is the show and the books are the books, but I will miss seeing Jamie’s Riverlands stuff. (And I agree that it doubtful we will ever see it). Not that anything exciting happens, but I liked the character moments.
I never want to be an Unsullied ): !
But wait Now since george has been writing Twow for about 4 years and lately he said that he is going to stop going to events and things like this and he is not gonna even write an ep for next season , all that in order to sit down and finish the book .. With all this why are we soo sure that he might not finish befor 2016/May ?? I can see a chance for him to release it before that if he spent more time writing
Any way I don’t want to upset you but sooner or later we will become Unsullied
Again … Lets say Twow came out before s06 and we servived .. He still gonna need another cuntery
Gods help us all if S06+7 came and we are not ready 🙁
It’s almost certain, from what we know, that several significant subplots are gone (Stoneheart/Greyjoys/Arianne/Crackclaw Point/Quentyn to name a few). It’s conceivable that Greyjoys could get bumped into S6. Like others, I believe Oldtown will remain, for the simple reason that HOBAW wants the book.
The only major ‘off page’ plot that we know of to replace them is the romance between Myrcella and Trystane.
So the big question is will they develop other ‘off page’ plots. Personally I hope they put the relief of Hardhome on screen, as it would provide a good climactic event for the end of the season.
Turncloak,
Because the show won’t leave it in a cliffhanger. The climax will be the big battle outside Winterfell (we know they’re filming a battle sequence that was supposed to be in Iceland in the winter but got pushed out of Iceland because it grew too long and complicated for the short daytime hours there- has to be the Battle of Winterfell in my opinion), so we’ll likely know the fates of the involved characters. So Stannis, Theon, the Boltons and Yara (unless they change something with her) will probably reach spoiler territory in the last couple of episodes.
From this point forward, I’m not sure that all important book events necessarily “have to” appear in the show. So much needs to cut from AFFC and ADWD to work through all the material from the two books by Season 5’s end. Likewise, I am almost positive a huge amount of TWOW and ADOS will need to be cut as well.
Think about it this way…
Many people consider AFFC and ADWD to be a lot of filler so they can more easily accept half of the material being cut from the TV series, but it’s likely an equal amount of material will need to be cut from the last books of the series as well. Those last two books should be filled with far less “filler” being that they are the endgame of the saga, right? That would mean even events and arcs important to the books will need to be cut or at least streamlined a great deal. To me it makes sense for them to start the show’s streamlined endgame trajectory in Season 5.
Some of speculated that Trystane could take on
Most of the characters Brienne meets are sidetrips that will, based on this show’s style, be cut. Depending on whether the show is including Stoneheart or not, they may be completely reformulating that plot.
As to Sansa having “characters to meet and interact with”, none of the people she meets in the last chapter have been cast (which doesn’t mean they aren’t there, of course, but one can’t assume it). Myranda Royce’s immediate role is seemingly to find out if Alayne is Sansa, which is irrelevant on the show as Yohn Royce already knows that (they also used her name for Ramsay’s psychotic minion). Mya Stone hasn’t done anything yet. Maybe they have more significant parts going forward and will be introduced, but it’s far from something to bank on. The show pretty much burned through Sansa’s AFFC material in every meaningful sense, including the only plot that might have served as a source of real drama (the Lords Declarant). What we get next season is going to be some mixture of TWOW spoilers and invented fillerish material, though we don’t know in what amounts.
As for Bran, I’m skeptical of the common assumption that they’re going to cram his storyline in season 5 with flashbacks. The show typically doesn’t introduce stuff like that until it becomes relevant to the drama.
thremnir,
The whole “Trystane-Myrcella romance plot” thing is blown way out of proportion. I can’t see it taking up more than a couple of scenes.
All I can say is that Sansa and Brienne are my two favorite characters, lol, so I’d much rather be spoiled for their story lines than go a season (or more!) with them only showing up a couple of times.
Technically, there’s more than one chapter left for Sansa. I’m copying this from something I said in the forums:
Plus, after reading the summaries of some of the chapters, we’re still missing the Lords of the Vale trying to overthrow Littlefinger and him swaying them his way
Brienne is a little more tricky, I suppose they could have her meeting you-know-who at the start of the season and then having her look for Jaime.
Bran, who the he’ll knows what’s gonna happen to him. Personally, I don’t think one season of exposition and learning is gonna be all that satisfying. There has to be some sort of arc for him that also includes Meera and Hodor.
My Tyrion/JonCon/FAegon theory is that
I’m not sure what exactly happens to Varys in this instance though.
They have mentioned the Golden Company so many times though, that I feel like they have to do something with them. So, they could
I guess it all depends on where that story goes in the books.
Count me in on the list of people who are really hoping that Winds comes out before season 6.
Darquemode,
This is my prediction:
E1: Tywin Funeral. It is determined Margaery & Tommen should wed immediately
E3: Margaery & Tommen Wed, Cersei is in bed with Lancel and hatches her plot
E4: Lancel is pitiful at trying to woo Margaery
E6: Lancel admits failure to Cersei, Cersei sends him to the High Sparrow anyway
E8: Cersei is summoned by the High Sparrow and everything goes to the seven hells
E9 or E10: Walk of shame.
jentario,
Hope you’re right!
Faceless Frey,
I suppose Tyrion and Varys will get to Pentos, wherupon Tyrion will travel alone after that, so no concern about Varys being taken by pirates. Varys will stay in Pentos since he is going back to KL later after all.
How much screen time total did Bran and Brienne receive in S4? Don’t think it was much on either count – suspect we will just have minimal appearances for these two and Sansa this season.
They were already leaving the Eyrie at the end of last season (hence, “Shall we go?”). The descent is not really relevant now, as that was about Myranda trying to suss her out, which is unnecessary on the show.
We’re not “missing” it, it already happened in episode 4.08. The show condensed that whole plotline into the inquiry into Lysa’s death. Royce, Waynwood et al. are Littlefinger’s allies now.
After leaving the capital in episode 4, Brienne appeared in every other episode. She had pretty decent screentime on her own.
Bran’s screentime was pretty minimal, but frankly, the show cannot afford to have that character do virtually nothing for another season. If that happens he’s going to become completely irrelevant to most of the audience, as that will have been three seasons straight of very little happening.
As for Sansa, based on how they ended things with her for Season 4, I doubt she’s going to be placed on the back burner.
I’m going to be somewhat vague here because I don’t know how to do spoiler codes. Will they adapt Ramseys marriage plot as written? I found it too disturbing to read so had to skip those chapters. I know leaving it out will change Jon’s motivations, and Theon’s, but considering how everyone hated the Theon torture porn, this would be even worse!
Ugh. So much material. I gotta step up my reread. It’s so much fun to speculate, but so frustrating at the same time. Can’t S5 and TWoW just get released already? *sob*
I like Dorne and all, but if they cut the Greyjoys in favor of that convoluted side story I’ll riot (or shake my head vigorously).
I dont care about being spoiled further books.
To be honest, my main concern with season 5 is I damn well hope they dont screw the Winterfell and Wall arcs !
biobi,
Don’t think so. The filming schedule is tight as it is. Doing that would make things needlessly complicated.
debi,
Go to the top of the thread and the secret about the spoiler code will be revealed. 😉
It is a tribute to GRRM (not considering the speed of his writing) that each reader has their very own favorite storyline as evidenced above. Personally, I hope the Iron Islands plot is severely cut back though it did grow on me during reread. I am most interested in the North this season!
dizzy,
I can see them push the Greyjoys to season 6 to climax with Victarion’s arrival at Meereen
Even if there is potentially enough ‘fuel’ in AFFC/ADWD for S5, I doubt the show will try to avoid spoiling the books in order to buy GRRM more time and wouldn’t be surprised, if we get both of the battles in S5. (if
take place somewhere around episodes 6-8, followed by the battles which should have been the climax of ADWD, season 5 has the potential to be very exciting).
GRRM might be able to get TWOW out before S6 in 2016, but what are the chances that A Dream of Spring will appear before 2017? Non-existent. For that he would have needed to write in TWOW in three years 2011-2014 (so, it would be out around this time), which would have left him 2014-2017 for the final book. Alas, that was not to be.
The show will eventually spoil the books. They might as well start this season to give a balanced 7-season version of the whole story.
I really don’t mind that we will all be Unsullied eventually since I read the books after starting the tv series.
The Brienne/Sansa/Bran situation is going to be pretty tough seeing as Brienne and Sansa are two of the most popular characters on the show. I honestly don’t think they are going to be willing to sacrifice much of their screen time so I expect it to be the about the same as usual and we will get original material from the writers or material from TWOW.
If Balon doesn’t die in Season 5, I will assume the the Greyjoy storyline has officially been cut.
Also, I don’t care what people say, I’m still optimistic that we could see TWOW as early as the premiere of Season 5!
I agree with absolutely everything in your comment. Even if I wanted to add something I wouldn’t know what!
I’m bit afraid to watch the Sansa plot next season. Because there’s not much left for her I suspect they’ll use material not published yet. Unless they do a completely show storyline about the Vale. And I won’t even know the difference.
I prefer to read before I watch. This has nothing to do with Martin. It’s a general preference. That’s before someone quotes me and labels me as book purist, or show hater or whatever else label anyone comes up with!
Ryoko Masaki,
Maybe it will play out like you suggest…
There is still a fair amount of streamlining likely to happen even if they do not go a different route than the books..
– No plot to kill Trystane
– Likely no plot to kill Bronn
– No bed-hopping for Cersei
– No Kettleblack’s intriguel
debi,
Those Theon chapters were probably the best chapters in the whole series. I sincerely hope they stay as close as possible to the source material with regards to Theon and Winterfell (though so far there is a disturbing lack of info).
dizzy,
The Greyjoys are much more of a convoluted side story.
With that said, I do think they’ll have to follow up on Balon’s leech and they also have to get Yara back on her way to Deepwood Motte or whatever the show replaces it with.
So I’ll remain cautiously optimistic that Euron will get cast at some point and that he’ll have a role to play in the books and in the show.
:cheers:
I’m not sure if we’ll be that spoiled. I wonder where Sansa’s storyline will start in tWoW. If it picks up directly where we left her, than yes, we’ll be spoiled. But there is a possibility that some time will pass before we see her again and that when we meet her again, she’ll have spent some time at the Gates of the Moon already.
If the second scenario is true, the show could extend Sansa’s storyline for another season by showing how she’s introduced to the Vale and uses her Darth Sansa powers. Of course this could all be wrong though, the Lords of the Vale already know that she’s Sansa Stark and I don’t think that’s going to be the case in the books.
I to prefer to have read the original work before seeing the on screen adaptation. It’s just more rewarding overall. That being said, I’ll be watching next season (and the season after that if we don’t get tWoW), because I can’t help myself 🙁
Azad Injejikian,
There’s no way the battle of Meereen happens at the end of season 6/early season 7. The chronology is already off and the show can’t spread Dany’s storyline (which is already thin in the books) over three seasons.
D&D have said again and again that 7 seasons are the plan, so Dany needs to move on quickly during season 6.
I agree 100% the Dornish ploy is tiresome and most of the things they’ll probably end up doing can be done by other parties. Greyjoy’s are a much more interesting bunch of characters with a much bigger impact.
jentario,
A surprise
Edit: Oh and Jason Isaacs for Euron. Oh its on Velti. Its fucking on.
My money is on Sansa’s storyline being half filler, half TWOW. I think the first half of the season will involve Bronze telling her that he saw Arya at the gate of the Vale and then she goes out to look for her (which I classify as filler because Arya didn’t go to the Vale in the book. Thus, its an action based on a non-existent event (i.e. filler)).
It’s when she’s out looking for Arya, that Brienne finds her and there you go…TWOW material.
I ment to say ” another sentury until he finish A dream of spring “
Huh. I wrote a thing precisely on this topic, so I might as well copy & paste:
The placement of most storylines by the end of season 4 leads me to believe that the Battle at Winterfell, which hasn’t even been fully portrayed in the books as of yet, will be moved up to serve as the “episode nine” climax of season 5. This point of separation between seasons 5 and 6 is mostly based on the fact that the Bolton plot has been considerably brought forward, while the Greyjoy storyline hasn’t even been set up with the much delayed death of Balon. As a counterpoint, halfway through season 4 Daenerys’ storyline already was into ADWD territory. The other Westerosi storylines are around the end of “A Storm of Swords.” This would mean Jon’s ADWD storyline will be done next year, as will the King’s Landing-focused storylines, with Cersei’s walk of shame, Jaime’s rejection of her call and meetup with Brienne (with a new Dornish context) and Varys’ assassination of Pycelle and Kevan (if he is brought back) and revelation about Aegon Targaryan (alongside his invasion of the Stormlands), if it happens at all.
Also —and this is relevant for setting up season six—, season five will introduce the Dornish story and probably burn through all their published material (though heavily changed), and just maybe also the Greyjoy one, from the Kingsmoot to Victarion’s fleet setting sail to Meereen (it doesn’t seem the will do it, though.) These storylines will probably follow the Bolton formula from season 4: relevant storylines with a meaty amount of screentime in the episodes in which they appear, but and a spread-out episode allocation and hence a limited screentime overall. In Meereen, Tyrion and Jorah will get to the city and Daenerys will fly away from the fighting pits on Drogon. Maybe we see her meeting a Khalasar, or it may be reserved for next season. Either way, this takes us directly to season 6. I’m pretty sure most of the intrigue at the Meereenese court after the disappearance of Daenerys won’t be portrayed until early in season six, with the as of yet unpublished Battle of Meereen serving either as an opener, mid-point or climax —it can easily be made into an early event or be delayed just as they did with the Battle at the Wall. It probably depends on the —as of yet unknown— consequences of the Battle; if another climactic event is ahead for this plotline, that (whatever it is) could be the season-ender for Season 6 instead of the battle, which would be placed earlier.
Brienne’s travels have been compressed, but not severely —not having her meet Lady Stoneheart made sense, as it would have skipped most of it. Still, introducing Stoneheart through Brienne’s eyes (instead of a Frey nobody) does also make more sense in the show’s storytelling style, so that may be why Stoneheart has not appeared yet (or maybe she just won’t.)
The Starks are a curious story as well. Arya is the most easily adaptable: although she only has five chapters ahead, and they are quite introspective, they are brimming with potential: her assassin training can easily be expanded and depicted throughout season 5 and part of season 6 if need be. I imagine she will end season 5 by being blinded after saving Sam (which would leave Sam’s storyline at the end of said season with him sailing away from Bravoos and Aemon dying). Of course, they might not follow her cliffhanger fake out and opt for the more dramatic assassin initiation for a climax instead. Her late season 6 storyline will very likely delve into “The Winds of Winter” territory, maybe ending with the already published excerpt of her killing someone known to Arya (necessarily a different person in the show); after all, Arya regaining her identity yet retaining her newly-acquired assassin skills would be a great climax. Then again, maybe there is better finale material just around the corner, or she may have so many chapters later that her season 5 and 6 storylines will have to be condensed instead of expanded.
Meanwhile, Sansa’s storyline has almost reached the end of all published material and there has been some plot alterations to it, so her journey will delve into the unknown next year, either from TWOW or the writers’ imagination. Although Bran would appear to be on the same boat, he has a meaty chapter yet to be adapted. While the events therein are only narrated in passing, such a long time passes and so many things happen that the chapter could easily be expanded for the show: learning about the Children, Bloodraven, greenseeing, warging and the old gods; developing Meera and her relationship with Bran, maybe introducing at last his infatuation with her; secretly warging into Hodor against his will just to walk around, maybe with the added consequence of getting caught; his first doubts about abandoning his body even further; becoming a greenseer and linking to the tree; and finally, a TV-friendly version of the greenseing dream of Winterfell. Maybe add in another altercation with the White Walkers somewhere, and there is more than enough story for a full Bran season. Of course, just as much as Arya, Bran could have a more elaborate and climactic storyline ahead that we are not aware of; if so, his last chapter of ADWD could easily be compressed instead of heavily embellished.
I predict almost as many ADWD chapters will be covered in season 6 (14 chapters) as AFFC and ADWD chapters have been used for season 4 (16 chapters). Except for Arya’s and Sam’s, all of these chapters have to do with the incoming Battle of Meereen. Although the show has expanded a few storylines once in a while, in this case each and every one of them would need to be extremely drawn-out throughout seasons 5 and 6 so that the show doesn’t completely overtake the currently published books by season 6. Yet, the producers have repeatedly stated they will not stall. In season 5 we will be getting new Sansa and Littlefinger material (based on TWOW or not), maybe even Bran, and by season 6 we will most certainly be getting an adaptation of unpublished material for every storyline, unless TWOW is released by April 2016. Obviously, the writers would have written the season almost a year earlier, but we must assume they will have access to the story and even the unfinished manuscript in the process.
The following list of chapters from AFFC and ADWD, which mostly take place concurrently, are chronologically ordered as per the “A Ball of Beasts” fan edition. Chapters adapted for season 4 are highlighted in yellow, while those that could be adapted for season 5 are in orange and for season 6 in red. However, a chapter may be completely different but serve the same purpose in the character’s storyline and will be listed (e.g.; Brienne’s adventures with Pod have been severely condensed, while Arya’s with the Hound’s expanded, but their original narrative purpose remains —a different path that leads to the same end.) I don’t intend to theorize on which subplots or even storylines could be cut (e.g.; although the prologues most likely will not make it, I will place them where they would be if they were included.) I insist: this is NOT an speculation on the faithfulness of the adaptation but on what span will roughly be covered each season.
SEASON KEY:
Season 4
Season 5
Season 6
CHAPTERS:
Prologue: ADWD 1
Prologue: AFFC 1
The Prophet: AFFC 2
The Captain of Guards: AFFC 3
Cersei I: AFFC 4
Tyrion I: ADWD 2
Daenerys I: ADWD 3
Brienne I: AFFC 5
Jon I: ADWD 4
Bran I: ADWD 5
Tyrion II: ADWD 6
Samwell I: AFFC 6
Jon II: ADWD 8
Arya I: AFFC 7
Cersei II: AFFC 8
Jaime I: AFFC 9
Brienne II: AFFC 10
Sansa I: AFFC 11
The Kraken’s Daughter: AFFC 12
Tyrion III: ADWD 9
Davos I: ADWD 10
Jon III: ADWD 11
Daenerys II: ADWD 12
Cersei III: AFFC 13
Theon I: Reek I: ADWD 13
Bran II: ADWD 14
The Soiled Knight: AFFC 14
Tyrion IV: ADWD 15
Davos II: ADWD 16
Brienne III: AFFC 15
Samwell II: AFFC 16
Daenerys III: ADWD 17
Jon IV: ADWD 18
Tyrion V: ADWD 19
Davos III: ADWD 20
Jaime II: AFFC 17
Cersei IV: AFFC 18
The Iron Captain: AFFC 19
The Drowned Man: AFFC 20
Brienne IV: AFFC 21
The Queenmaker: AFFC 22
Arya II: AFFC 23
Sansa II: Alayne I: AFFC 24
The Princess in the Tower: AFFC 41
The Merchant’s Man: ADWD 7
Cersei V: AFFC 25
Theon II: Reek II: ADWD 21
Jon V: ADWD 22
Tyrion VI: ADWD 23
Daenerys IV: ADWD 24
The Lost Lord: ADWD 25
The Windblown: ADWD 26
The Wayward Bride: ADWD 27
Brienne V: AFFC 26
Samwell III: AFFC 27
Jaime III: AFFC 28
Tyrion VII: ADWD 28
Jon VI: ADWD 29
Davos IV: ADWD 30
Cersei VI: AFFC 29
The Reaver: AFFC 30
Daenerys V: ADWD 31
Melisandre I: ADWD 32
Jaime IV: AFFC 31
Brienne VI: AFFC 32
Theon III: Reek III: ADWD 33
Tyrion VIII: ADWD 34
Cersei VII: AFFC 33
Jaime V: AFFC 34
Arya III: Cat of the Canals: AFFC 35
Samwell IV: AFFC 36
Cersei VIII: AFFC 37
Brienne VII: AFFC 38
Jaime VI: AFFC 39
Cersei IX: AFFC 40
Bran III: ADWD 35
Jon VII: ADWD 36
Daenerys VI: ADWD 37
Theon IV: The Prince of Winterfell: ADWD 38
The Watcher: ADWD 39
Jon VIII: ADWD 40
Tyrion IX: ADWD 41
Theon V: The Turncloak: ADWD 42
The King’s Prize: ADWD 43
Daenerys VII: ADWD 44
Sansa III: Alayne II: AFFC 42
Jon IX: ADWD 45
Brienne VIII: AFFC 43
Cersei X: AFFC 44
Jaime VII: AFFC 45
Arya I: The Blind Girl: ADWD 46
Theon VI: A Ghost in Winterfell: ADWD 47
Tyrion X: ADWD 48
Jaime I: ADWD 49
Jon X: ADWD 50
Daenerys VIII: ADWD 51
Samwell V: AFFC 46
Theon VII: ADWD 52
Daenerys IX: ADWD 53
Jon XI: ADWD 54
Cersei I: ADWD 55
The Queensguard: ADWD 56
The Iron Suitor: ADWD 57
Tyrion XI: ADWD 58
Jon XII: ADWD 59
The Discarded Knight: ADWD 60
The Spurned Suitor: ADWD 61
The Griffin Reborn: ADWD 62
The Sacrifice: ADWD 63
Victarion: ADWD 64
Arya II: The Ugly Little Girl: ADWD 65
Cersei II: ADWD 66
Tyrion XII: ADWD 67
The Kingbreaker: ADWD 68
The Dragontamer: ADWD 69
Jon XIII: ADWD 70
The Queen’s Hand: ADWD 71
Daenerys X: ADWD 72
Epilogue: ADWD 73
OT: Adam Best posted again about the situation. I really don’t wish Fansided any harm, really, I don’t, I hope they are able to turn the ship around, but frankly, Best is just making it worse now. I mean, I really don’t get it. How can you write
when literally a paragraph earlier you wrote something like this?:
Does he want this very post of his to be reported?
I actually think we might get a lot more TWOW stuff than people are anticipating. A lot of characters haven’t even been added and the storylines are moving quickly. The days of added filler to keep certain stories from getting too far ahead are probably pretty much over.
Two things I hope make the cut:
The creepy boat ride through the sorrows
Robert Strong
Those two things are important because they bring the supernatural into storylines that previously didn’t have it. Magic started off the series on the fringe of the story and has been slowly moving towards the center, finally arriving there in ADWD.
aren’t they said next season we will know what is Varys’s real plot ??
So how to show us Varys’s plot without YG or his figure ?
Abyss,
Interesting – he is commenting negatively about the very fans they want to draw to their site? Strange strategy.
WeirwoodTreeHugger,
I’m thinking the next season is going to start being noticeably different from the books/go beyond them.
I’m not too fussed (although I’d prefer if they didn’t) about them changing things for the show but I can’t see how it’s not going to spoil/devalue the books. If a character/plotline isn’t in the show then I automatically have the sense they’re not important. The only way they can avoid spoiling plotlines is by changing the story but then you have the problem of getting too far away from the source material which is where most TV shows come unstuck.
It’s quite the connundrum and I am genuinely worried for both the show and books. Hope they pull it off.
Lady Nym,
They said that Tyrion fucked up his plans a bit and that we’ll see “what’s next” for Varys in season 5. Maybe Varys decides to back Dany in the show now that Tywin is dead.
I agree. This is the only thing I’m truly worried about. The Jeyne Poole stuff can go but the northern lords need to stay and I’ll become a ragey book purist if they’re cut entirely. I want to feast on a savory pie!
Hear hear. It took my a while when reading the books to give a shit about what was going on down there. Looking at it from the big picture point of view it has minimal impact on any of the other stories. All you need to know is Dorne would support the Targaryens.
The Sandsnakes are pretty irrelevant (what did they ACTUALLY do in the books?!) yet have somehow become fan favourites. The Greyjoy brothers were way more interesting and actually affected other storylines..
Well if The Daznak Pit is season 5 climax,
I wonder if there’s a major character death coming up in TWOW that will be spoiled in season 5. I could see them doing that in episode 9 or 10.
At this point I’m so eager to find out what happens in the story that I’m pleased the show will do it during the rest of its run. The books will still be plenty exciting and valuable when they finally come it. We’ll get the extra nuance and detail and learn the fate of all the characters and plots that have been cut from the show.
No, that would not work. Dany’s got two books’ worth of material in TWOW and ADOS, which you’re suggesting would all be crammed into Season 7.
I’m very suprised we haven’t heard a casting announcement for Fake Arya. After the lengths D&D went to show us the Theon torture I assumed they were going all in with his story
” so young! Though mayhaps this was a blessing,had he lived he would have growing up to be a Frey”- Wyman Manderly
This is one of the lines I can’t wait to hear next season , its going to be epic ! 🙂
Everyone share your favorite lines from AFFC and ADWD that you’r dying to hear next season 🙂
Sean C.,
That ‘shall we go?’ is a bit vague, they never really specified when they were gonna tour. They could’ve easily been going to supper. But let’s assume that by the start of the season they’ve made their descent. We might still get Sansa being a mother figure to Robyn, Littlefinger hatching his Harry plan, and him quarreling with the Lords (the only thing those three agreed with Littlefinger was that Robyn should tour the Vale).
I’m not saying that the show won’t spoil Sansa’s storyline, but I don’t think we’re gonna start her TWOW material just yet.
Lady Nym,
Don’t wanna be pessimistic but wouldn’t put too much money on it happening!
Loads of one liners from
But if they did I’d be happy 🙂
Turncloak,
They probably wouldn’t announce fake Arya, given the spoiler implications. But yeah, there’s been a disturbing lack of news even in leaks.
Im assuming they’re cutting a ton of material if they are only going 7 seasons
I think Nymeria and Tyene will probably
For the rest I 100% agree, no unique impact whatsover.
azad injejikian,
You’re forgetting the part where she travels to Westeros. Unless you think that could happen between seasons?
I always thought Dany’s Landing in Westeros would climax her arc in season 6, with the battle happening relatively early on (kind of like the Purple Wedding in season 4).
Veltigar,
Well, it seems like Dorne is going to become
The fact that they included this storyline means it will likely become very important going forward.
Ok ):
Amon,
Bard,
(and some others)
I didn’t want to mention plot spoilers in the post, indicated by discussing plotline movements (north -> south, or west -> east, etc 🙂 ) The numbers still reflect the amount of chapters as a measure (a very imperfect one). Several Iron Island characters are lumped together even when they do not stay there, etc. That’s why I didn’t mention the names of new characters and their role specifically
I have a theory that the show will substitute Kings Landing for Oldtown. There’s nothing particularly special about the Citadel being in Oldtown, and it could easily be placed in Kings Landing instead. Just makes sense from a practicality standpoint.
This may well be rather off topic but I don’t think I’ve seen it mentioned anywhere else so this seems a good place to ask. I’m a spoiler rather than book reader so I’ve got a general idea what may happen, but not in major detail. I’m intrigued by what book readers think of Maggy the Frog’s predictions and how likely they are to be true? I seem to remember there was speculation fairly recently they might be included in some kind of dream/flashback in series 5 because
or is that more likely to be for something else? From the little I know of her she (Maggy) seems to have been right so far.
George didn’t make the sand snakes go to
,,,, do you think we might see the sister arrival by the end of S05 ?
For those waiting for TWOW I suggest you read Joe Abercrombie’s “First Law” trilogy. One of the main characters, San dan Glokta, is a cripple, has the wit and humor of Tyrion Lannister, the experience of being tortured like Theon(this is part of his backstory), and the sadistic nature to make Ramsay blush. Truly a colorful character 🙂
They could cast Adam Sandler, Taylor Lautner or Shia Lebouf for all I care. As long as we get Euron I’m fine with it.
Dorne providing
As to Doran being a master player, he’s surely not. Like the QoT he’s second tier (at best, the QoT and Tywin are better imo). Varys and LF are the only real OG’s when it comes to the Game. Furthermore, Doran’s relative succes hinched on the combination with Oberyn (grass and viper), now that Oby’s head is gone, Doran is not as effective as before. He’s weighed down even further because his daughter is a real airhead.
Chanches are big that Doran will die early on in tWoW anyway, leaving Arianne ‘I deserve to be a queen’ Martell to screw Dorne over by allying with Faegon. And then Dany will crush them.
The reason why the Dornish storyline will be included are pretty clear imo. The First reason is the chance to ride on the coattails of Oberyn’s popularity (most people hate Theon and don’t like Asha, so good luck introducing them).
The second one is the chance to cast some hot generic warrior chicks and to throw in some romance (Myrcella and Trystane, which is a good change I think).
Since Arianne (and others) don’t seem to be cast and some major changes (Jaime in Dorne) will occur, I think it’s clear that D&D’s version of the story will be far different and much less complicated than what we get in the books. Eventhough the Ironborn’s impact will be higher in the books, that will be different in the shows probably.
And the subsequent standalones, with the exception of ‘Best Served Cold’, which is boring and riddled with cliches. Instead read the standalone ‘Heroes’ twice, that’s a great book.
Pay special attention to the Northern and mercenary characters, those are the best. Jezal, West and Glokta are pretty generic.
Faceless Frey,
Are you suggesting that…
I can’t see any reason to include so many of the Dornish characters if Aegon has been eliminated. He is going to be Dorne’s hope and, ultimately, their disappointment.
Yes, it is disturbing. One name – Manderly – that’s all I ask.
Following Turncloak‘s example, I’d like to recommend Laline Paull’s “The Bees”. Dystopia, religion and plotting set in a beehive. No, really. It’s a good story.
For mega-book series, try David Wingrove’s “Chung Kuo – The Middle Kingdom”. It’s science-fiction, but it features all the stuff ASOIF has: political intrigue, world-building, violence, sex, incest and a cast of thousands. (Plus, Wingrove’s a GRRM fan!)
Back on topic, all these speculations about GoT future seasons makes me wonder if they can wrap it up in seven. I’m not so sure anymore. Eight seasons seems to be a better alternative. An extended seventh season will probably be best. There’s still so much ground to cover, even with all the editing.
Do you think the show at the end will foucse on AzorAhai and TPTWP ?
Littlefinger and Robin were talking about leaving the castle, followed by Sansa showing up and saying “shall we go?” The implication that they’re leaving right then is pretty plain.
They agreed that Robin (there’s no ‘y’) should tour the Vale, and that Baelish was a decent guy and could continue as Lord Protector. They also appear to have took his side regarding an anti-Lannister agenda. And they know he’s protecting Sansa (supposedly). The show has resolved that plotline.
I think we will get the Harry plotline, but that’s one scene to catch up with the book. Sansa has run out of real book material, certainly material with actual dramatic story (a bunch of scenes of her mothering Robin are not the sort of thing this show is going to have room for going forward).
Yeah, sure, but why would the material they cut be primarily from TWOW-ADOS in favour of delaying Dany’s Book 5 story until the end of season 6, which would surely place it a season behind everyone else?
I still think they didn’t need to burn through Sansa’s material so fast in season 4. The actual Lord Declarant plotline could have been saved for next year. With LF actually pulling the strings like in the books. I used to be really enthuastic about the show, until D&D decided that hooded characters (not talking about Arstan/Barristan ofc) and good season-ending scenes should be avoided at all costs. Let’s just throw in an “uplifting” ending, cause that’s how the average viewer keeps the story in the back of their head during the 1 year hiatus, right ?? I probably sound like a purist right now, but I needed to rant a little and this post felt like the good place for this. Some people are probably going to tell me things like “LS is shit anyway” or “we don’t need shocking cliffhangers”. Well that’s your opinion 🙂 mine is that D&D started making mistakes in their adaptation choices during S4 ‘s writing, and from what we know on S5 so far it’s not getting any better. /Rant off
This post and the number of comments truly shows how everyone has left WiC.
On-topic, I think we’ll be worried next year, but then GRRM will release the book. Then we’ll read the book and realize that D&D are taking this in a far different direction.
It’ll be okay, guys. The show won’t spoil the ending because GRRM’s ending will be much more spectacular.
With all the changes that they’re making, I’m not sure I’m even going to watch this season. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were into spoiler territory before it ends. Not here for the spoilers. And not at all pleased about the nearly impossible prospect of trying to remain unspoiled until the books are finished.
GRRM’s ending will have more characters/details/moving parts, but the fundamentals are going to be the same, more or less.
Regarding cuts to the plot on the show and how far possibly into WoW S5 will go…
I think even if a character might have a bunch of material, they might still venture into spoiler territory. And my reasoning is that WoW and aDoS are going to be massive books in their own rights and the TV show has to think about setting up the series finale in S7. So when thinking of it from that perspective, fitting 4 books into 3 seasons. Stuff is going to change and get fast forwarded. Jon’s arc and Dany’s arc have natural ending points. Cersei does as well… but there could also be something tacked on to the end of her arc as well… similar to the way they added the Lords Declarant to Sansa’s arc this season that might eat 1-2 chapters of hers from Winds…
i.e. Robert Strong fight…
And everyone waiting for Bran to do a season of nothing but flashbacks will be disappointed. They may do some… but it won’t be his entire season… and expecting all filler/invented plots seems is wishful thinking.
Stannis / Winterfell conclusion will get spoiled.
Arya should be fine…. but there isn’t a great arc for her… no big conclusion… so that could push a chapter or 2 into Winds as well.
Brienne – I could see this being a side plot/ invented material.
Iron Born… big cuts could be happening here…
fAegon/JonCon… changes/cuts very possible.
The shows main job now is to get to a version of the ending of ASOIAF. I am expecting how we get to the ending will be different and the ending may have some holes in it if we look really closely. But the endings will be similar.
D&D did a great job adapting the first 3 books as faithfully as we probably could have hoped for. Yes we can say this or that was different… but by and large they correlate very well. I think this was a huge goal for them to accomplish. As the first 3 books are revered amongst the fandom. Now with that accomplished they have to steer the massive ship that is GoT to its conclusion. Which is very different than bringing the first 3 books to life. To hit the finish line in 7 seasons things are going to change. Shortcuts be taken. Streamlining.
So, are we all enjoying this “dogpile of negativity” in the comments? (Yes, I’m quoting a certain other fan site that seems to be unable to resist a little backhanded bitterness.) Really, they make it sound like they are interested only in woobifying the show instead of discussing it critically. How dull!
mariamb,
Yes, I noticed that, too…in a response that was an attempt at being positive about this site. They just can’t rise above over there. So unprofessional.
Sean C.,
Agree. Of course all that presupposes Martin gets to the final ending. It already sounds like he’s decided he needs to make the series eight books now to finish.
One reason I think JonCon and Griff will be cut is because their invasion on the show, (like it did in the books,) would kinda steal Dany’s thunder and Jon’s too really. Dany already has a fleet so no Victarion but I think Euron will make it to the show. Remember Tywin’s question to Tommen, “A rich house with fertile land asks for your protection from a house with a powerful navy who could one day oppose you..”? Clearly setting up the Iron Born invasion of the Reach there, whether they show Oldtown or not.
I think we’ll definitely get the Battle of Winterfell next season and possibly even the Battle of Mereen and/or Dany meeting Tyrion because there has to be some forward movement there on the show. They can’t have Dany forever meandering and not going to Westeros like in the books, (and like what Martin has promised more of for TWOW,) since viewers are already impatient and they only have seven seasons. My guess is Dany gets to Westeros, by the end of Season 6.
I’m betting/hoping that the reason they accelerated Sansa’s storyline is because she has so much coming up in her character arc they felt they had to get rolling there already.
If TWOW isn’t released by this time next year, then the filming reports for season 6 will be a huge spoiler, namely if
At this point, I have decided that I will watch the show when it surpasses the books, as there is no way I could avoid being spoiled. I think the books will wind up being significantly different, to where only the endgame will be similar. The journey of the books will still be worth reading, even if I know where it is heading. But, I’d really like to read TWOW before most of that material appears in the show. I may have to avoid casting calls/filming reports next year to do so.
Faceless Frey,
It would be an excellent way to streamline the story…even though I enjoyed reading about the journey on the poleboat. And I agree that the Golden Company has been mentioned too many times not to show up at some point.
Lady Nym,
Hopefully not, that’s a huge cliche. I mean, let it be mentioned more but don’t put one character in the center of the story.
Concerning the fake Arya storyline, D & D can merge it with Alys Karstark storyline. That move can give them a lot of possibilities for dramatic tension, emotionally and politically, and it is reliable regarding the matter of succession of Winterfell. At least I would go in that direction 🙂
That makes no sense. Alys and Jeyne’s stories have nothing to do with each other, and take place in entirely different locations.
jentario,
But it plays a huge part in the
mariamb,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Having said that, I don’t want to be hit over the head with it so that it becomes the dreaded cliche.
Stranger,
I read that too… funny thing is look at which site has more comments to their articles… and WotW has only been active for a month…
Agreed. The sheer emotional gut punch of Theon’s storyline in ADWD… GRRM still got the goods. Please do it justice D&D!
Maginor,
I’m a little surprised that nobody has mentioned… (can’t get spoilers to work, so I’ll be vague)
Brienne was not warned by Jaime that someone is a fake. A couple scenes with her investigating that trail, and then going that way – she can be the one that finds a hero after jumping off a wall with his prize… tying two plots together by the end of the season.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Bringing it up a lot more is fine, I just hope that they never go on revealing a true Azor Ahai reborn character and especially not make Jon Snow both AA, the King on the Iron Throne and the messiah. I hope they approach it with more subtlety than that, since I think it diminish all the other characters and make them seem less important. This isn’t a main-character type of story.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I’m 99% confident Aemon will bring TPTWP up on the show. Probably in episode 1. Mel will talk about prophecy and than Aemon will say “you speak of the war of the dawn. But where is the prince that was promissed?”. Mel will than state that Stannis is the Lords chosen. Aemon will than ask to see Lightbringer.
jentario,
When GRRM was asked which character he would be if he was in the books he responded Jon Snow. This is despite the fact that Tyrion is his favorite character. It’s highly possible that GRRM picked the character that would live to see the end of the series and that would be in very good circumstances at that point. Also, in the shows version of the house of the undying we see the throne room covered in “snow”. It seems too obvious but I think that Jon being TPTWP/king/winner/etc is how it will go down. Hope it doesn’t though as I agree with you
Turncloak,
Here’s my source http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_author_george_rr_martin_would_play_jon_snow_but_tyrion_lannister_is_his_favorite_cha-2014-04
Well, that would certainly
And whoever said he/she thinks Stannis
.
Heck, the only ones I expect to stay true ish (maybe streamlined, but not altered or moving into spoils territory) to Dance are Cersei n Dany.
I’ll blame Fabio, he asked for Dorne and an awesome Red Viper.
Wasn’t there a Varamyr Sixskins casting happening. Probably not much but that’s something extra for Bran.
My biggest concern regarding material from future books and stuff invented by the show is that it’ll be very hard to tell the two apart. One only needs to look at Yara’s season 3 scene to see that something can be set up as though it’s going to be something pretty major and then fizzle into almost nothing later on.
Im actually really looking forward to getting some spoilers or created stuff this season for Bran, as long as they stay away from fireballs, and Sansa. I really want Sansa stuff because its been SOO long since she last had a chapter. Im still holding out hope that YG and Griff are in this season.
I just think there isn’t enough time for them if they bring them in in season 6 if they are still planning on ending at 7.
She has been right so far but the reason she is important is because her predictions provide understanding for Cersei’s behavior, especially in her upcoming storyline.
It’s just not realistic to expect them to focus on both the Dornish and Greyjoy storylines in one season. I expect a very condensed version of the Greyjoy material in S6, which will lead up to the battle of Mereen.
FunnyShae,
Greyjoy stuff could happen offscreen. With Victarion just showing up in Meereen to save the day. Some exposition afterwards to explain the backstory… and poof all caught up.
I love Bran, and I’m really worried about what they will do with his storyline this season. I just don’t want more skeletons, fireballs or another some crazy thing.
I watched the first two seasons as Unsullied, then read the first 3 books, then watched the 3rd season, then read the 4th and 5th books before the 4th season.
I gotta say: I liked being Unsullied for the show much better. The scene from this season of the Night’s King was absolutely thrilling to watch as a book reader. I’ll be perfectly content to see new plot points introduced on the show before reading about them in the books.
Turncloak,
I started reading the First Law trilogy. The story and characters are engaging but the silly names of people and places are pretty jarring.
Veltigar,
It’s so funny seeing that mock cover of TWoW, especially since both “horns” in play will prove to be worthless to those who desire them the most….;).
I’m almost sure the siege of Riverrun will be cut. I don’t remember the exact dialogue between Roose and Walder Frey but wasn’t implied that Walder was already the Lord of Riverrun and the Riverlands? Plus Blackfish is already missing and Jaime’s dornish filler, all evidences point to the cutting.
I can only hope Jaime’s jetpack will be massive, I mean, assuming he HAS to reencounter Brienne at the end.
ps: I’m not using spoiler codes because spoilers are already implicit in this post.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Except that
Ok. Soooo many posts! On the G/YG thing:
Huh…I feel/felt exactly the opposite about the Greyjoy v Dorne storylines. Greyjoys creeped me out and bored me to tears in equal measure, but I loved the Sand Snakes and Arianne (sob!) and her father. Balon must fly, but the brothers can go. If Euron ends up being important later, he can be introduced then. As for Dorne’s/the Sand Snake’s future importance to the story:
The Maesters v Magic plot seems more important to the endgame, thus making a little time getting to know Dorne and the awesomeness of the Snakes worth a scene or two.
Keepin’ the faith that there will be a book in 2015…but will keep watching the show (and hanging out here when possible). Different entities.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I’m pretty certain that Tommen and Myrcella are goners. They are faited to die by the prophecy (+ what else will motivate Jaime to go full on Valonqar on Cersei). Tommen has to die first, because Myrcella needs to receive a crown before she can be terminated as well.
Of course the prophecy doesn’t specify whether or not the crown has to represent actual authority. I think that Myrcella might be crowned quickly after Tommen’s assassination (to snag the prestige of being crowned on the IT) and then she’ll be shipped of to Casterley Rock with Cersei.
GRRM has confirmed we’ll be seeing the Lannisters ancestral home and the best suited PoV, given the physical locations of all the PoV’s now seems to be Cersei. Where else will she flee to when Faegon closes in on Kingslanding? Which is something that is bound to happen.
Myrcella, like Stannis and Renly will then get a title in the appendix like ‘Queen in the West’ or ‘Queen in Casterley Rock’. Faegon will then become the ‘King on the IT’ until the Blackfyre/Brightflame ploy of Varys and Illyrio blows up in their faces and takes everyone out.
Gwendolin Christie’s shooting Star Wars this summer and fall so she might not be in season 5 all that much.
The thing is Sansa and Bran should have been advanced a lot in ADWD/AFFC to catch up atleast in a character development way to where they would have been at the start of the original after-a-5-year-gap ADWD, so it doesn’t matter so much that the show is racing ahead with them.
With Bran, we were left a few narrative strings to unravel at the end of Season 4. Who is Bloodraven? How has he guided Bran/what powers does he have? Why has Bran been chosen? What are the Children of the Forest? Why are they allied with Bloodraven? Plus Bran has a now ridiculously interesting set of characters to interact with around him. Bloodraven is going to be teaching him in ways of the Weirnet and the Ravens and probably more we don’t know about. Meera has just lost her brother, and we know in the books Bran has a crush on her, they could have some interesting interactions. And there is the growing moral dilemma of Hodor in Season 4, in that he is in great distress when Bran wargs him, Hodor could run away or something like that.
After that the plot needs to go somewhere, narratively, this should be around episode 6. I have no idea where this could go, but it seems like things are cranking up for an ice/fire war. On a character development level I can see this being a “Bran finds himself” season; mastering new Omega level abilities, maybe growing confidence with Meera etc.
For me the real mystery is Pink Letter/Battle of Winterfell. As obviously the show can’t do a GRRM and jump ahead chronologically for a scene just to leave the season on a cliffhanger, and we know/think that they’re filming the Battle of Ice/Winterfell this season. That means that Pink Letter will play out chronologically and we’ll finally know what happens, meaning BIG spoilers. Now, most people think Stannis doesn’t die and Pink Letter is a lie, so that means that the entire scene will all be a no no no no tragic-misunderstanding-that-leads-to-bad-things like the Hound/Brienne
PS I really like the idea of Dorne being a substitute for the 10,000 golden company
PPS, what reason is there for the Battle of Meereen not being cut? I mean as far as we know Victarion and Moqorro are cut, and the ships he’d bring to battle are already in Meereen, Ben Plumm hasn’t been cast yet but Tyrion doesn’t need a battle to get on Team Danaerys does he. It’s just that it’s the biggest battle in the entire series so far, and on one side we have Barristan and Grey Worm, minor characters and on the other we have…. no one, just some red shirt slavers. Seems a bit of a waste of budget for that. Daenerys isn’t even there. Plus it’s not like there won’t be any other huge budget pivotal scenes in TWOW that are more important.
Ashara D
Veltigar,
Possibly but I wouldn’t take the prophecy as cast iron as GRRM never makes things that blatant. I could see Jaime going to Casterly Rock with him being closer or maybe they’ll use Genna Lannister (may just me wanting them to feature her more!)
I think the Ironborn have been given quite a raw deal on the show so far and have been made to look pretty rubbish. Euron and Victarion would serve to show that they are a credible threat and are actually tied up with other plotlines.
Please no more Sandsnakes. They’re one dimensional and are the epitome of style over substance. If they’re in the show then fine but they’re minor characters at best. It’ll be nice to see Dorne but one season of it is enough for me as I feel it may have already detracted from the the over plotlines going on. Serves as a good filler whilst the other stories get in place though.
At this point it’s not looking great for Oldtown. But if it goes ahead I’m not sure we need yet another bloody sand snake there for it! If they’re slashing major characters like the Greyjoys, the Griffs, etc then keeping in what seems like a sideplot seems a bit daft.
The more I think about it the more I’m confident that they’re not going to do the books justice in just seven seasons. Still far too much up in the air.
FunnyShae: She has been right so far but the reason she is important is because her predictions provide understanding for Cersei’s behavior, especially in her upcoming storyline.
Aaaaah I see, thank you *nods head sagely*. I thought perhaps as
But then someone else said that
so that’s that theory thwarted. But guessing is fun so I thought I’d join in anyway!
It will be an odd experience being unsullied again, but I think a liberating one. At the moment I always have a tiny (very annoying) voice in the back of my head saying “Oh that’s different from the books”… “I can’t believe they didn’t include THAT” etc. even when I’m not actually that bothered about the changes. It will be actually lovely sitting in front of the screen without a clue what is about to occur and having that voice go silent again. Also just makes it more exciting. So however much I want the books to come out, if the show beats George to it, bring it on.
Ross,
100% agree, which is why I watch the first airing alone to get over that voice, then watch later with my Unsullied family for pure visual enjoyment. It will just make watching easier once the voice is gone. That’s why it doesn’t matter to me which medium arrives first. They are very different experiences.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I’d love for more Iron Islands… but T.V. is visual. How do basic viewers even identify the Greyjoys as different than Stannis and his gang? Greyish dour people really into religion spending all their time on ships, and then more of the same. Dorne is sandy and has water gardens and women and a warm climate so there can be less clothing. The greyjoys got a raw deal, but it’s a necessary evil…
Just because something is cut from the TV show doesn’t mean that it isn’t important for the books. So if fAegon and/ or Greyjoys are cut from the show… I don’t think it really says anything about their importance for the books.
At this point the showrunners have to take the logistics of running a very complex show for viewers to watch and get it to a SIMILAR conclusion as the books (since that seems to be what they are attempting to do)… introducing 3 whole new GROUPS of characters is probably too much to realistically expect most of the viewership to handle. (to follow and care about)
So the ending will get to the similar point. But the journey could be very different… Which means the books will a good portion of unspoiled material for us.
Lady Wolfsbane,
I’d say Victarion and especially Euron are two of the most distinctive characters in the books both visually and character-wise. Plus they are perfect for TV! I kept getting everyone in Dorne mixed up except Doran and Arianne until the last couple of their chapters. Think this may have been because the Sand Snakes didn’t really do anything except Obara having a tantrum now and again.
Not given up on those Greyjoy boys quite yet! Also if GoT has shown anything, it’s that audiences WANT more complicated plotlines and aren’t the idiots that need spoon feeding that TV producers seem to think they are!
Genna isn’t a PoV and I doubt new ones will be created. There’s a slim chance for a Blackfish or Edmure PoV, but I wouldn’t count on it. And Jaime won’t be going to CR first, because he has to follow Cersei to finish her off. Cersei first needs some time alone to wreck things completely before he can barge in on her.
True, they seem fairly generic. A result of the very limited screentime handed over so far (which makes it even odder to include the Dornish imo, they had even less).
Agreed, the Sand snakes were a bit one note. Perhaps they’ll have more debt on the show though, you never know, although it seems unlikely. At this point, I think even an extended seventh season won’t be enough to bring a satisfying ending, so I imagine some major cutting will be done. Dorne is less relevant than the Iron Islands, but it’s easier to summariz I guess.
Still not going to see the prophecies as cast-iron. I mean it could well turn out that way but could go the other way completely!
I get a feeling Blackfish may take LS role but I honestly have no idea what they’re planning on doing in the Riverlands now…if anything.
Be a shame if such an incredible series gets a botched together, rushed and unfulfilling ending. Deserves so much more.
Prophecies in this series are real and all will come to pass imo. Of course, they are also ambiguous, so they might come true in unexpected ways (e.g. ‘the Valonqar’ will be Jaime imo, but I have seen people theorize about pretty much everyone from Arya to Sandor). But in hindsight we’ll be able to tell which prophecy led to which result.
Strongly disagree here. Without Varys or LF, we wouldn’t have any books. They are on a completely different level than anyone else, so far they have outclassed everyone. All these major players (Olenna, Tywin) think they are just useful pawns, but Varys and LF are the game masters.
LF for his own gain and Varys for the sake of his House have wrought distruction of epic proportions. Varys fed Aerys paranoya, so he has more than his fair share of responsibility for Robert’s Rebellion. LF caused tWot5K. Since then, both players have conspired to take out as many great lords as they needed. LF influenced Joffrey’s decision to kill Ned, he used the Tyrell’s as a proxy to kill Joffrey and when he killed Lysa he usurped the seat of LP of the Vale in all but name. Varys just so happened to bring Tyrion to Tywin’s room (ending in dead Tywin), he killed Kevan, put Daenerys on her quest across the sea and so on.
The problem is that Doran is to cautious by half. In the recent past, he had a brilliant combo with Oberyn, which helped him overcome that disadvantage, but Oby is dead and gone.
Furthermore, Doran needs to die in order to give Arianne the free reign. She will marry Faegon and deliver the Dornish levies to the Blackfyre cause. As things stand now, cautious Doran would never make the play of supporting Faegon (I think he even doubts whether or not he’s real), he needs to be removed from the playing field.
Veltigar,
Nooooooooooooo!!!! You can’t say that Veltigar! Technically without any of the power Houses you’d have no books either 😛 What I am saying is there is a difference I just cannot say in all honesty one is more cunning or a better player than the other. They have different motivations, methods, capabilities and quite frankly it’s not yet the end so I can make a final decision.
To your analysis of Baelish: I see Petyr as an opportunistic chaos agent as he himself describes his persona in the books, while Tywin for example, is all about planning five years ahead. Also Petyr is moving single pawns and then waits to see what move should benefit him most according to the results. Tywin is moving tens of thousands and is planning on a grand scale moving armies that are at his disposal. Tywin creates opportunities himself not waiting on others. Were it not for Tyrion’s arrows who knows which one would have put their stamp on the Iron Throne in the end.
Speaking of the end: I have the feeling all these players don’t really lose because they outsmart each other but fall because of their own faults and their own vanity and ignorance at what happens right in their backyard so to speak. I can see Sansa being the end of Petyr. Look at Cersei and Margery
. I hope I’m making sense!
Veltigar,
Whatever it is I’m glad you take them in stride! Just making sure you know that for whatever rude person out there who lashes out, there’s others who like to read you. Even when you are totally, completely wrong! :p
Don’t know why people think
will be cut. I remember some quote of one of the major show execs about “Varys finally showing his endgame” or something to that effect (maybe someone has a link to the exact quote), shortly after S4 finale aired. If that is true, it’d be pretty much a confirmation for our blue-haired friends to appear, along with the Golden Company name-drops in S4.
Since it’s hard to believe that Arianne and Quentyn won’t be cut (or perhaps it’s me sharing in the pessimistic ways of the general Sullied population), so i’m more worried about the Greyjoy Nuncles. Nevertheless, why would they give Yara 1 scene per season the last 2 years anyway if they weren’t going to do something with her by S5? And what would they do with her if it wasn’t
? Besides, I’m not so sure if i follow those who think Euron won’t be having a part in the endgame. The books hint otherwise.
Guys, please. No need for that, take the back-and-forth insults elsewhere. I’m already in half a mind to delete the whole exchange.
Hear Marko Roar,
I think that would be a good idea to be honest. Tried to take it in a more light-hearted direction but it didn’t work!
Please do!
I’m not sure about your math regarding brienne. wtf, only two chapters left?
surely it felt like her wandering through the riverlands and crownlands took like 10 chapters at least. She still haven’t found Sansa, or met Tarly and Red Ronnet or whomever else. Now they cast the high sparrow, I’m sure she’ll meet the guy. She’s the least of my concerns TBH.
JP Dayne,
Her storyline is different on the show, and I looked for equivalents to finding out about Arya and fighting the Hound. There is no way she will meet everyone from the books and go to all the same places still. High Sparrow will most likely be a KL character, of course. She had 8 chapters in B4.
Sean Bean,
Don’t do that. No impersonating actors or people connected with HBO, even as a joke.
I just hope they still adapt the chapter where
Also, I think it would make more sense if
Princezz,
I really don’t get the rationale for
If there is some reasoning that I’m just not getting, I’d enjoy hearing it…idk maybe I’m out of the loop.