It’s been an exciting day, with the red carpet premiere of Game of Thrones taking over the Tower of London. The cast showed up in style and have headed off to the after-party, and the critics are now dropping the first reviews of season five.
Two of the reviews are very light on spoilers, but those wishing to remain Unsullied may wish to avoid reviews altogether. Each review will be marked for spoiler content (or lack thereof).
- First off, we have Forbes Magazine, noting that the “strongest stories can be told in whispers.” The review is very light on spoilers- almost free of them- but for confirming the opening scene of the episode, one already known to most savvy fans. According to critic Neil Midgley , there’s a “magnificent set-piece that surely heralds a difficult season ahead” for Daenerys. Hmmm. Just hmmm.
- The Guardian hales it as a “well-paced, intriguing opening episode.” Sarah Hughes calls the premiere episode a “slow-burner” and says, “All the elements that have made Game of Thrones notorious, from copious nudity to moments of unexpected violence, were present but this was a notably confident series opener, one which mixed humour and pace to demonstrate how secure Benioff and Weiss now are in this world – and how happy they are to take risks.” (Spoiler-free)
- The Telegraph neatly summarizes the episode, getting more specific about the plot details and containing spoilers, including confirming the return of a minor character. All in all, The Telegraph says the premiere episode “spins a whole new web of political intrigue, meticulously setting the scene, and generally eschewing any of the blood-splattered gore we’ve come to expect from later installments.”
- The Independent‘s review is in, containing light spoilers such as telling us exactly what that magnificent setpiece in Dany’s storyline is. The Independent says that in the premiere, “There weren’t many new introductions, but several old characters are revealing new sides.”
Hodor?
The interesting bit from the Telegraph review is the mention of a character called
.
One reviewer says that an Unsullied in Meereen is named “White Rat”, but we know Stalwart Shield is in this season. I suspect he may have misheard and got confused with some other Unsullied also spoken of in the episode.
I’m annoyed about that one reviewer who said he laughed at the funeral stones over Tywin’s eyes….okay, they’ve had those since Season 1 when Jon Arryn died, and they were VERY prominent when Joffrey’s corpse was laying in state last season….do they really have such poor attention spans that they can’t recall this is a cultural thing they do?
Well they said that Melisandre burns that pyre in the first episode
…Spoiler text isn’t working for me, how do I do that again?
The Daily Telegraph review is ridiculously specific and spoilery and talks about ‘Here’s what we want to discuss’ – when the viewer won’t see it for weeks.
I will not read those! … – Maybe just a littke? -.-
The Dragon Demands,
Nope. He’s called White Rat in the series. Cue purist rage.
So Lancel’s show version is virtually the same as the books. Lucky him!
No mention of Illyrio at all, which further backs up my theory that they completely cut him. Good job setting up something from S1 to abandon it now.
If he was going to be in ANY episode, it’d have been this one.
Nothing happens in premiere that wasn’t already expected and confirmed :/
The Dragon Demands,
Name probably changed between casting and filming. Probably decided that all Unsullied will have animal+color names to keep it clear.
Renly’s Peach,
Sounds like the People Magazine version of A Song of Ice and Fire.
Like Dune, this will be remade.
Renly’s Peach,
Take it easy broseph, i’m pretty sure they weren’t planning on cutting him out back in season 1.
ctid,
Afeastfordances,
Yup this is most likely why
The Dragon Demands,
The name was a guess based on the books. The casting call didn’t give a name, just his role.
cosca,
How do you know he mentions him? Haven’t seen anything like that in any review.
Renly’s Peach,
I really don’t want to complain too much about this when we’ve got Lancel and Kevan back, but to go to his house and then to not have him there is just really weird.
Renly’s Peach,
S1 is too long ago to be a setup for anything now. The Ilyrio gun was hung and fired then and there on the very first episode: they obviously are free to use him again, but he does not represent some sort of loose end.
That written, Ilyrio is such a minor character that if they did bring him back, then the reviews would not mention him. Anybody who has not very recently binge-watchef the show will not remember him. (I do not think that he appeared after episode 1, save for Arya’s brief sighting of him.)
cosca,
Um what? How do you know
is mentioned? Source?
Luka Nieto,
I was there.
Renly’s Peach,
Season one was years ago, you can’t expect the show to use every detail. This isn’t a 2-3 hour long movie, the show will run the better part of a decade and
circumstances change alomg the way.
Turncloak,
Himself?!
Wimsey,
The thing is, many reviewers have read the books. Actually if you use last season as an example, most reviewers are book readers. So they would notice
Renly’s Peach,
Roger Allam was in a play during the whole filming period in Croatia, and thus unavailable.
Dutch maester,
How is it weird? He’s on vacation, BOOM! Explained.
LOL I just saw the reply. Didn’t know you were at the premiere cosca
cosca,
It’s better than The Rat Cook. That would have been too much LOL
cosca,
Well, do tell, then. How does he mention him? Spoil us! Anything particularly interesting and noteworthy from the rest of the episode?
As long as you spoiler tag it, I’m sure the impatiemts among us would like to hear some juicy spoilers.
How come Illyrio is suddenly the most important character in A Song Of Ice and Fire?!
Sean C.,
They could’ve used him for an interior scene shot in Belfast.
cosca,
Tell us more! About the entire episode! (Starting with the title sequence: new locations?)
Turncloak,
Hardly. He is a minor character in the books, too. General readers do not remember incidental characters for long. Again, what fans retain, and what the vast majority of readers/viewers retain are not the same.
Dutch maester,
We know that Allam was involved in another project at the time, there was most likely an actor availability issue which is always a risk you run with the actors you don’t have under contract.
cosca,
Then there’s really no point in mentioning him at all, is there. His presence there is needed to tie back to season 1 and the Dany connection he and Varys have. Really, what the fuck are these people thinking?
Eddard Stark II,
Unless the actor was in an AIR-TIGHT CONTRACT prohibiting him from appearing in five minutes of one episode, nothing else really excuses it. It’s sloppy writing and lack of care, broseph.
None as far as I could tell. The Vale and Pentos made a return
Eddard Stark II,
He’s the father of the next king of Westeros. How about a little respect?!?!
cosca,
Does maggy the frog say valonqar in the prophecy?
Which is why they mentioned him…also, Varys explicitly says that Illyrio was in on the plot.
Lucy,
cosca,
Tell us more! Anything noteworthy you remember 😉
cosca,
But something similar? A reference to a little brother? Or just the part of her children?
Renly’s Peach,
He was in a play in London. People in the theatre generally can’t fly to foreign countries to film there, and he may not have wanted to.
cosca,
So what does she say? The little brother?
cosca,
What exactly happens in the
?
cosca,
Did they redo Winterfell or is it still just a smokey ruin?
Renly’s Peach,
Come on… You haven’t even seen the episode yet and talk about “sloppy writing and lack of care”, calm down.
cosca,
Lol. The first controversy of season 5.
Aevd,
Reviews confirm it’s the cold open
cosca,
Hey Cosca, could you possibly give us a summary of what you remember in spoiler tags?
Any mentions of Deepwood Motte!!!?
Renly’s Peach,
Not really: it has no bearing or impact on the story or the plot. Indeed, forcing incidental character back into the narrative can dilute both story and plot!
cosca,
Does Kevan make an appearance on the first episode?
cosca,
Is the Sansa scene just them watching Robyn fight poorly or are any future actions discussed?
Does Kevan say anything or is he just hanging with Lancel?
Is the shot of Rhaegal firing flames at the camera from the trailer what we see here or is it something different?
Wimsey,
It seems like they mention his name though. To me this means that they tried to have
Afeastfordances,
It’s redone.
Lucy,
There was nothing related to brothers at all.
Renly’s Peach,
You know what let me get D&D on the phone, they should really consider you as a writer for next season, NOT! You obviously have no idea what actually goes into making this show, which is shown by the way you critizise them for such a tiny little detail.
King Tommen,
That probably needs spoiler tags KT.
Margor,
Yes! He has a short, nice scene with Cersei.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Fuck the King! I want chicken!
cosca,
Does Varys bring him up at random? Does he mention where he is? Or does Tyrion ask anything at all about him? (I’m curious how this conversation would go)
cosca,
So she just tells her about the younger queen and her kids?
cosca,
Concerning what?
And what’s Sansa’s scene?
Where does Tyrion’s appearance end? Just with the “who said anything about him?” Or does it go longer than that?
cosca,
Is Anya Waynwood in the Vale scene or in it just Yohn Royce? Is that the only Vale scene?
God dammit. Right in the ****ing feels :-[. Avenge them
Turncloak,
It does not mean that at all. It dies not mean that they did not, either. It means nothing at all as both ideas allow for what happened.
Wimsey,
Are you serious? The entire plot for a major character is about to change completely. To casual show-only viewers, getting the Varys-Dany connection out the blue is kind of a shock, I’d imagine. It’d make SLIGHTLY more sense to have Illyrio be seen again and reestablish that connection. Since, you know.. he was a major part of Dany’s beginning. And a mysterious/powerful figure Arya sees again at King’s Landing, which would have been clarified, uh, now.
“Hey Tyrion welcome to my friend Illyrio’s place, oh by the way he’s not here.” Casual people are gonna be like, “who???”
But whatever; it’s not like this is the biggest sin they’ve made thus far.. Nor the last.
cosca,
Can you write a summary of the episode?
Renly’s Peach,
He’s probably going to mention that to Tyrion. Problem solved… oh wait it was never a PROBLEM!
THIS!
Um what? Lol i just found your sentence confusing. I said it “could” mean that. Not that it “does”. From what we know of
This gives me some hope for the character’s future.
You cannot rule him out. Especially since we know both
Cosca, are theon and the boltons in the episode?
Dutch maester,
LOL I had to google Anya Waynwood!
I can hear Wimsey right now. Because this is totally what he’ll say:
And I consider myself a fan.
King Tommen,
Yezzan:
Sansa and the Vale:
On Kevan:
On Rhaegal:
Turncloak,
You’re impossible to understand.
What if next time we see Illyrio its on the
Renly’s Peach,
The viewers do not remember Ilyrio unless they just binge-watched the show: and as he badically does not reappear after the first episode, many of the binge-watchers will have forgotten him. Thus, he cannot provide a connection for the typical viewer. You are making the classic fan mistake of assuming that your favorite series is an exception to the rules of human memory: but it never is.
Hath4,
Nope
Eddard Stark II,
I’m saying that
Wimsey,
Many viewers do not remember who Kevan or Lancel are. And yet they are returning. That proves nothing
cosca,
Thanks!
Two final questions: are there any other scenes at the Wall besides the ones with Stannis on top of the Wall,
Are Shireen, Selyse or Aemon in the episode?
cosca,
At last the three dragons are named on-screen. Drogon in 4×10, and now Rhaegal and Viserion in 5×01. It was always a weird choice for me that they didn’t have a short naming scene im the Red Waste or Qarth.
Turncloak,
All of those characters were much more prominent in the narrative than Illyrio, who was in only one episode, really. One of them actually does have a part in the plot that is pretty unique, too.
cosca,
Can you tell us about the Stannis scenes? What is the dialogue between him and Jon like? Does he offer him Winterfell? Does he talk about the Others?
Does a certain someone get burned at the end of the episode?
cosca,
Is there much Stannis and Davos in this ep?
Eddard Stark II,
Nobody likes a brown-noser, kid. You don’t have to make up excuses to defend this show blindly. It’s an oversight, whether you agree with me or not — it’s an oversight. If he wasn’t important, then he wouldn’t have been included in the KL scene with Varys or even mentioned by name this season.
Turncloak,
This is why the “oh, nobody will remember him” excuse is bullshit. If they’re bringing back KEVAN, who was a super minor background character in the show, they could have brought back Illyrio.
And if he really was unable to do it because of a play, then it’s a damn shame all the same.
Crabber’s Son,
Luka Nieto,
Yeah, I was baffled at the writers’ saying they could never work that in. Literally any time Dany meets someone new you could bring that subject up. And when they finally did name Drogon, it was dropped in almost as an afterthought.
Oh, sorry, defense mode on. Take it down a few notches (to myself).
Wimsey,
Ok then, please explain to me then how Rorge and Biter returned? Surely Illyrio is on the same level as them in regards to prominence
You know when a new season is about to begins when you seee Renly’s Peach whining.
I’ll post an episode summary in a while. Sorry, too many questions.
Turncloak,
It proves that such characters cannot provide plot links, which was my point. The show would be foolish to try to use them in this way without reintroduction. As one of them will play an imprtant role in the plot driving a lead character’s story, he almost will be providing the audience of some reminder of who he was. (He also was in several episodes over 2 seasons, so reminding viewers of who he is will be both simpler and easier than it would be for Illyrio.)
cosca,
Yeah that would probably be easiest.
Sorry for the questions and thanks for taking the time!
Wimsey,
If people do not remember who a character is then those people do not really pay attention to the show. They are such casual viewers that they will most likely not even care who he is and if they really care they can google it. All the real fans will remember him and they are the ones who are bothered by his absence more than the casual viewers are bothered by not remembering who he is. Im pretty sure recasting the mountain or Daario is more confusing than bringing back the guy with the beard from Dany’s wedding.
Turncloak,
Did they? I missed that. Was it supposed to be relevant who they were? (I cannot think so: I would remeber being critical of that.)
Jesterr223457,
Sean C.,
In season two there were two particular scenes which featured Drogon prominently while Dany and Doreah talked about dragons, first in the Red Waste and then in Xaro’s palace; yet even Drogon went unnamed until the latest aired episode. Just weird.
are we really having an argument over Illyrio…..
why…..
this is why GOT discussions just turn to shit…. *sigh*
I guess I’ll do the smart thing and stop coming to these comment sections as it will ruin another season for me with the constant bitching over nothing
Again Rorge and Biter made returns. I assume you are not referring to them in this post. I think it’s foolish to rule out a possible Illyrio return to the series at some point.
Davos’ Luck,
This is the first pre-season/season I’m spending on this website. Pretty sure you don’t know me, buddy.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Dorne is a pretty safe place to be. Its insulated from the warring kingdoms. Its definitely safer than roaming the free cities with a couple of bodyguards. And aero hotah moonlights as a stylist.
They were killed by Sandor and Arya last season. Biter bit Sandor on the kneck lol.
That’s why I’m not ruling out Illyrio
cosca,
Thanks for the information you’re sharing.
Can you tell us if Cersei
Also, does Kevan attend
Thanks again.
Yezza,
You’ve seen it?
Oops! Sorry, cosca. Just saw the post that said you will just write a summary instead of answering further questions.
Renly’s Peach,
I have my criticisms of the show, but it pisses me off when people make such an effort to complain about something that is such a minor thing.
Kyle,
If they bother justifying it at all (a remote possibility; it’s not really necessary, except for us obsessives), I’d say they’ll change it up so that Kevan had gone to be castellan at Casterly Rock after the Blackwater, when Tywin decided to stay in King’s Landing and rule as Hand, and he’s been there ever since, with his son, wounded after the battle.
Yezza,
That’s… Extreme. So, you watched it?
Sorry, mate. I confused you with another irrational book purist.
Dutch maester,
I can’t even!
Eddard Stark II,
😛
This is really what I’m hoping for. Since they’ve bothered to bring Kevan back, I doubt it’s for a blink-and-you-miss-him role. I hope they fully explain who he is and what he’s been doing, and why he’s returned to the capital (if it’s not already apparent from the unexpected death in the family.)
Crabber’s Son,
Simple tests disprove that. How much you pay attention at the time had little to do with long term retention. We retain things only if we go over them constantly (as fans do).
Here is the classic example. Take three groups of first year university students from this time in 2012. Group A and B are taking a lower level class. Group C is not. Group A are those that go on to major in this topic. Group B are those that go on to major in something else.
Fast-forward to 2015. Give the final exam to all three groups. Group A does as well or better than they did in 2012. Group B and Group C just as badly as one another: and what grade the Group B students got barely predicts variation in how they do 3 years later.
If people cannot retain things that they studied 3 years later, then clearly how much you pay attention to anything now has no bearing on what you remember in 2018. What does matter is how often you think about it over the next three years.
Given that the audience watching this show consists of people who have been doing a lot of other stuff over the last 4 years, we cannot expect them to remember single-episode characters now.
Eddard Stark II,
I would have liked to see
Luka Nieto,
Yeah that would be the perfect explanation. Either that or was out commanding some of the Lannister armies.
Davos’ Luck,
http://www.hiyoooo.com/
Actually re-reading the rather poor telegraph review, no surprises as the DT has gone from a pretty good (albeit very right wing spun) news source to a glorified tabloid over the past few years, Id say that it
Turncloak,
I think everyone would like to see him back.
Davos’ Luck,
Wanting consistency and thinks to actually make sense makes me a book purist now. Go figure. This place never changes.
Eddard Stark II,
Without Aegon Blackfyre, I don’t have much use for him.
Wimsey,
The “previously on segment” does a lot to help that situation. If you recall, last season they used the “previously on” to reference Jorah’s betrayal back in season 1.
I’m not saying you are wrong that it’s hard for people to retain information. But what I am saying is that your argument is a little flawed as the show has found ways to deal with these issues in the past.
Ugh…don’t remind me how they returned… :/ One of the silliest scenes last season.
Kyle,
We know for a fact
Will he have any other episodes? I don’t know; is there a need? His role is not much larger in the books. He refuses Cersei, goes away for the whole of AFFC, and comes back in the end. In the compressed terms of the show, that could very well translate to this scene in episode 1, another one in which he goes away in episode 2 or 3, and a final apperance of multiple scenes in episode 10 (or maybe 8 through 10, depending on how quickly they set up and resolve Cersei’s climax.)
Yes.
Renly’s Peach,
AND JON TELLING MANCE HES THE FIRST ONE TO UNITE THE WILDLING CLANS DESPITE YGRITTE’S STORIES ABOUT THE OTHER KINGS-BEYOND-THE-WALL
PLOT CONSISTENCY?? NAH WE JUST NEED CONSISTENT AWESOME BRUH!!!!
#NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS
AngryGoTFan,
Finally, some rational thinking.
Wimsey,
I am aware of such studies but also feel that watching a show for entertainment impacts memory differently than studying things especially considering how college students will never think about Intro to Geology after they get the credits for it. Im sure people think about the show they choose to watch for entertainment a lot more. I know lots of people who are casual viewers and I asked them if they remember Illyrio 8 out of 10 say no. But when I ask do you remember the guy with he beard at Danys wedding from the mansion most of them remember him. So mentioning him but not having him on screen doesnt make sense.
LOL I agree the scene was terrible.
AngryGoTFan,
When you said plot consistency it made me think about cake recipes. I don’t know why but I felt I had to share that.
And Illyrio would show the viewers that Varys and him have planned Daenery’s return for years. :/
AngryGoTFan,
RAYMOND REDBEARD, BAEL THE BARD, THE HORNLORD! #NOONEUNDERSTAAAANDS
Alex Stroup,
Mentioned little things upsetting you but yet you failed to mention “your sister”. For shame :p.
So, based on the spoilers, in 501 we have:
2. The Wall
3. Meereen
4. Pentos
5. The Vale
I would guess, then, that episode 502 will bring:
2. The Wall (synopsis)
3. Meereen (synopsis)
4. The Vale (synopsis)
5. Braavos (synopsis)
6. Dorne (synopsis)
7. Winterfell (they’ve never not introduced a major location in one of the first two episodes)
Wow, 502 looks packed.
Dutch maester,
1ST TIME ANYONES EVER ACCUSED ME OF THAT I MUST BE SLIPPING!!!
WHERE IS PENNY!!!! PENNY IS INEXCISEABLE!!! #NOONEUNDERSTAANDS
Can someone confirm whether the guy who was hosting Dany in Pentos in Season 1 (Varys’s friend) is back or not?
Turncloak,
we don’t speak of that
Turncloak,
PATE
Alex Stroup,
Alex Stroup,
I’ll buy you a drink and we’ll have a merry toast to “Tysha”. She’s out there…somewhere. 🙂
So, here is my episode summary.
Transition to: Current Cersei. She walks up the steps, after dissing the High Septon. Tywin is laid out in the Sept of Baelor. No mention of Shae. Her and Jaime talk about Tywin. She says Jaime killed him accidentally through his own stupidity, and at least Tyrion did it on purpose.
Next scene: POV of Tyrion looking through crate. Crate is unloaded, Tyrion and Varys talk. Tyrion is shaken, and starts drinking. Varys speaks about his and Illyrio;s allegiances, since he remarks they are at his home. Tyrion throws up his wine, then drinks some more
After this the order get’s real hazy for me, can’t quite remember since I didn’t take any notes. I’ll go story line by story line.
THE WALL. First Scene: Jon practices with Olly in the yard. Sam chats with Gilly about Stannis, then a weakened Thorne comes out complaining about the weakness of the recruits. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis on the Wall. On the way up, Jon asks Melisandre about the cold. She says she doesn’t feel it. She then asks him if he’s a virgin. When he says no, she says “good”. Cue heroic shot of Stannis and Davos looking out over the Wall. Stannis says he wants the Wildlings to help him take back the North, and that Jon has till nightfall to persuade Mance to bend the knee, or he will be burnt.
Second Scene. Jon pleads with Mance to consider bending the knee, but Mance refuses on the grounds that none of the Wildlings will respect him, and that it is against all he believes in. Mance says that Stannis would be a good King in this scene.
Third Scene. Mance is led out. He tells Stannis “good luck in the Wars to Come”. He is burnt. Jon shoots him with an arrow before he starts screaming. I believe this is the final scene of the episode.
THE VALE. First scene. LF, Sansa and Royce watch Robyn train, remarking how pathetic he is. LF thanks Royce for keeping Robyn.
Second Scene. Brienne is cleaning her sword. She get’s mad at Pod for his questions, says she isn’t a knight, and that their are no Lords worth protecting anymore.
Third Scene. A convoy of Vale Knights with a carriage passes Brienne and Pod. Within, Petyr says they are going far away from Cersei Lannister and her grasp.
MEEREEN. First sequence. The statue of the Harpy is toppled. At the foot, an Unsullied takes of his helmet and smiles. We then see him going into a brothel. He pays a woman, who then lies next to him, caressing him and singing him a lullaby. His throat is then cut, and we see the whore and a man in a golden mask standing over him. Learning of this, Dany tells the Unsullied to patrol the street. Missendei goes to Grey Worm and asks why an Unsullied would go to a brothel. He hesitates and then says that he doesn’t know.
Second Sequence. Hizdahr and Daario return. Hizdahr tells Dany to reopen the fighting pits, she refuses. He remarks that Yunkai gave into all their demands and installed a sort of democratic council. In bed together. Daario tells her she should open the fighting pits, and talks about how he used to fight in them after being sold to them as a child. He also tells her to reunite with her Children. Dany goes into the vault, but Viserys and Rhaegal snap and shoot fire at her. She runs away.
KINGS LANDING. Scene 2. Loras tries to give a eulogy for Tywin to Cersei, but she leaves him. She notices Lancel, who now has short hair and is wearing robes. She speaks to Kevan about Tywin, and he apologises for Lancel’s newfound piety. Lancel comes to Cersei later and apologises for tempting her sexually, and offers to pray for Tywins soul. He also pointedly apologises for his role in Robert’s death.
PENTOS. Scene 2. This is the scene from the trailer. Varys tells Tyrion to join him in his quest to help Daenerys rather then killing himself with drink. Tyrion agrees.
100% agree. I was never a fan of the Valonqar prophecy. We already know that Cersei hates Tyrion, we don’t need another plot device to tell us.
Now I just hope that GRRM doesn’t make
I JUST WANNA HEAR NIMBLE DICK TALK ABOUT THE SQUISHERS!
cosca,
use a lower case “s” for spoiler. I think that might fix your tag
Luka Nieto,
Turncloak,
Can’t edit it. Could a mod please fix that?
Turncloak,
Incidentally, it is not that it is hard for people to remember things: on the contrary, it is pretty easy; all you have to do is think about them frequently. But therein lies the catch: because we have so many demands on our time, most of us cannot mentally revisit many things. The typical Thrones viewer is an early 40’s male in a profession demanding a lot of mental energy. Sure, some of them are “fans”: but most of them are “fans” of something else, and just an appreciative viewer for this show.
(Just as an example, although I was a big SoI&F fan 10+ years ago, I did not even remember the popular idea abot Jon’s parentage until the 2nd or so episode, when something about Ned’s farewell brought it back! In the six years since I had thought about the series, I had forgotten most of it.)
Arash,
I read comments above and got the answer, and its disappointing.
Not to whine but its just inconsistent! Like Umber gone missing after Season 1 , or more importantly entire Riverlands being wiped off the map for the moment being!
Thanks for the info Cosca. 🙂
Thanks for the summary, cosca. Sounds like a great episode.
cosca,
Wonderful! Thank you. The Hizdahr scene contradicts tje leaked script simmary, that’s interesting.
Wimsey,
Sorry but I’m not buying it. The show has clearly used the previously on segment to remind people of much lesser characters than Lancel. Again, Rorge and Biter come to mind. Also very little details that would be impossible to remember such as Lysa’s letter to Cat were used on the previously on segments.
Luka Nieto,
What did the leaked script say?
cosca,
Thank you so much!
So …
Also, Mance bids Stannis good luck in “The Wars to Come” before Melisandre sets him on fire.
I think those two pieces of information imply that it’s the real Mance who burns. I have a hard time imagining that an innocent wildling dupe who is being sacrificed in his place would act that way – defiant, yet also courteous.
cosca,
Thank you so much! You rock. (not so much as to forgive you Quentyn tho’ LOL)
cosca,
The Loras eulogy sounds like another comic relief Loras scene, in which case, sigh.
wizardeyes,
Jared,
Sean C.,
Show Loras, yea…
I wasn’t really a fan of reckless/cocky book Loras. But I do think he was definitely more interesting than his show counterpart. Will have to reserve judgement though until I see his full season play out
cosca,
Thanks! What does jaime say in the scene with cersei?
AND NOW THE ANGER STARTS
Jared,
Yea… very good point.
Shit atleast he’s epic in TWOW
Missandei with Greyworm
Lucy,
It would be interesting to see if he implicates himself. I mean, obviously he doesn’t confess. But I mean, is his guilt noticeable? He did free the person who killed his own father, even if that person was his dear brother.
Crabber’s Son,
I will enjoy them in your stead.
Luka Nieto,
Ahhh okay thanks. Yeah that is a pretty big difference considering in what it hints at the to the future of that storyline.
If Yunkai has accepted the terms then that would imply that the battle of Meereen wont happen in the show – Daznak’s Pit will be the finale of the entire Meereen storyline .
Sean C.,
Princess Loras….. I guess I can roll my eyes harder…..
Turncloak,
I don’t know if Ciarin Hinds’ has read the books but I remember him saying that he was looking forward to playing a lute and singing. So he obviously knew the details of Mance’s book storyline.
But Jon shoots Mance with an arrow?Mercy from Jon.It’s shame that they wasted actor like Ciaran Hinds.Pissed about Mel/Jon scene(virgin really D&D?).What the heck is this.Not to mention that stuff with uniting clans for the first time.
Crabber’s Son,
Blame GRRM for introducing the idea.
This also may confirm
wizardeyes,
Exactly. If that was what the summary said, I’d have accepted the battle was gone. But the summary implied otherwise. If cosca’s report is true, I’m ready to accept the battle is gone, now that there’s actual evidence pointing to it.
Geralt of Rivia,
If your issue is not with the concept of the scene but with the use of the word ‘virgin’… I don’t get it. I really don’t know what problem people have with the word ‘virgin’ in the show. It’s been used since season 1 and since book 1 (though, granted, “maid” is more common in the books —but “virgin” is still used in the sexual sense 16 times in the books.)
Wimsey,
If people dont remember him even by showing “previously on” then we got a national low IQ epidemy on our hands!
Tyrion Pimpslap,
The only time Loras has resembled his book version was in the episode written by GRRM where he got that zinger on Jaime.
Crabber’s Son,
What does that have to do with Unsullied seeking intimacy?
Turncloak,
Yeah that’s exactly what I meant
Luka Nieto,
Maybe that’s for the best – as its shaping up in TWOW preview chapters – sounds like it would be insanely expensive/ pretty much unfilmable for a TV budget (even one as big as Thrones’)
lol,
Would make sense for Illyrio to be back at some point in the future regardless of whether Aegon is in it or not
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I thought u were responding to me being bothered with Loras being a comic relief character. Im fine with the unsullied scene Im just bothered with Missandei being so confused by it and their romance in general.
wizardeyes,
Spoilers for everything we know so far, books and season 5 of show:
My guess is Dany is probably going to have her fire and blood conversion moment in the pit itself, and burn the whole place right there and then. (I know there was the pic of a set with lots of burned bones, but at this point I think they were just trolling and that was a random dragon feeding scene, not the finale in Drogon’s lair) That cuts out the battle and it cuts the whole Dothraki arc from the next book. I bet we’re probably going to get her setting out for Westeros in episode 10 at pretty much the same time we get the conclusion in Dorne, revealing that she has a massive army waiting for her there.
Crabber’s Son,
Pretty much the most cringeworthy thing involved with the show.
Who knew there was a demographic for romantic handmaiden/eunuch fan fiction?
Yung Wolf,
That takes up 5-7 minutes all season. Cry me a river. It’s not like these characters should be actual people, we all know they are only window dressing for Dany.
Crabber’s Son,
Stand by for more Grey Worm/Missandei linguistic scenes.
Yung Wolf,
Its like the writers are trying to get to this huge revelation that you dont need sex to have a relationship and its taking Greyworm and Missandei multiple seasons to figure it out. Way too cheesy for Game of thrones.
Agree in the sense if it whitewashes her
Though if it thematically relates to more than just her dislike/hatred for Tyrion, eg it is relevant to bigger issues such as her relationship with Qyburn, Ser Robert Strong and why she allows magic, eg it is wielded against her so she can wield it back
Would it have been nice to trot him out for the 2 minute scene? Sure. Does it change anything that the actor doesn’t appear? Nope.
I’m sure they wanted Allam to show up but sometimes, the production doesn’t allow it. Having Varys spell out the relationship and play the role with Tyrion lets them write around his absense. Oh well, not a big deal.
If you want to get upset over stuff, get upset over real stuff.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Please, that scene with them alone in the throne room last season was 5-7 minutes of pure torture itself.
King Tommen,
Maybe hes busy finding them a boat? Lol
Crabber’s Son,
It’s only a matter of time before a plot twist comes along allowing Greyworm to use an elixir consisting of Drogon’s tears, White Walker baby formula and strands of Dothraki hair to grow himself a new cock.
spoilers
Giving everything to Tormund it seems, unsurprising given the TV viewer relationship between Tormund and Jon having been visually established and Mance was not
Depends on whether this is meant to be a strategic mistake by Stannis/Mel, eg Wildlings will splinter under various leaders now so they are impossible to wield or control to any end
Am rather dissapointed as I’m actually a big fan of his book character, same with Ser Barristan who will probably be killed off too and I don’t think there’s going to be a Battle of Mereen. So they seem to have a habit of butchering the good characters. meanwhile we get 3 Sand Snakes when only 2 are necassary and One Direction Trystane and Barbie Myrcella, ugh. Not to mention Brienne and Pod filler with Jaimie in Dorne, good grief could have given them a hiatus like Bran
Ultimately I understand they are cutting things substantially
Wow, already all the whining over petty nonsense. I’m debating whether or not this should be my first year where I just watch the show and don’t visit any of the fan sites or forums especially knowing that this season is going to have a lot of changes as D&D try and take the convoluted mess that is AFFC/ADWD and turn it into something remotely entertaining.
JamesL,
I’m seriously consider it. I’ll listen to the usual podcasts, read reviews —but I may abstain myself from most comment sections. It will get ugly.
it sucks
However, he seems to fit the anonymous actor’s statement about being psyched for having more to do this season only to be disappointed he’d been written out.
I cannot restate this enough. You NEED to cover all your episode spoilers. Instructions on how to do so are at the top of every comments section.
If you repeatedly refuse to cover your spoilers, I’m going to assume you’re trolling.
Luka Nieto,
If you can’t handle this fandom at our worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve us at our best.
– R.R. Martin Monroe
Cold Opening: Young Cersei and her friend Melara are walking through the woods after hearing of a fortuneteller called Maggy the Frog. They arrive in Maggy’s hut and Cersei begs Maggy for her fortune. Maggy answers her three questions. Maggy tells Cersei that she will be queen until one younger and more beautiful replaces her, that she will have no children with the king, but he’ll have twenty, and that her children will die. “Gold shall be their crowns, and gold their shrouds,” Maggy says. Melara is pulling at Young Cersei’s arm and urges her to leave. “Cersei, we have to go!” Melara says. Cersei awakes to discover that Tywin is dead.
King’s Landing
Cersei is walking to the Sept of Baelor with Meryn Trant as Tywin’s casket being showcased. Cersei walks into the Sept of Baelor where the High Sparrow greets her. Cersei and Jaime are standing over Tywin’s corpse where she asks him if he is the one who freed Tyrion. “The monster is still out there drawing breath,” Cersei says. Jaime denies it, but Cersei knows him too well and knows he’s lying. She leaves him there alone with Jaime feeling very guilty.
Cersei feels like a lion drowning in a pool if golden roses, watching Margaery comfort Tommen while Loras is offering his condolences. She leaves the place without a look at Loras, walks into Pycelle, but avoids him. Cersei wants to be left alone, but then she walks into Lancel Lannister. She hardly recognizes him. Cersei speaks to her uncle Kevan Lannister about Tywin and he apologizes for his son’s ragged looks. Kevan informs her that Lancel has joined the Sparrows.
Later on, Cersei sees Lancel again who asks for her forgiveness for sleeping with her and tells her that he’s a changed man now. Lancel also discusses the nasty business with Robert’s “hunting accident”, but Cersei pretends she doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Pentos
POV of Tyrion looking through the crate. Varys opens the Crate and reveals that Tyrion is in Pentos. Tyrion is shaken, drinks 8 cups of wine, and then vomits on Illyrio’s expensive carpet. Varys tells him that he and Illyrio have bet on the wrong Targaryen, but Tyrion is not interested in the Game of Thrones anymore. Tyrion and Varys enter Illyrio’s palace to change their clothes.
Tyrion and Varys speak outside on the balcony where Varys urges him to join him on his journey to Meereen. “You never told me why you set me free,” Tyrion says. “Your brother asked me to,” Varys says. “Could’ve said no,” Tyrion says. “Refuse the Kingslayer, a dangerous proposition,” Varys says. “Not as dangerous as releasing me. You risked your life, your position, everything…why? You’re not family, You owe me nothing,” Tyrion says. “I didn’t do it for you. I did it for the Seven Kingdoms,” Varys says. “A drunken dwarf will never be a savior of the Seven Kingdoms,” Tyrion says. “I don’t believe in saviors. I believe men of talent have a part to play in the war to come,” Varys says. “I will never sit on the Iron Throne,” Tyrion says. “You could help another climb those steps and take that seat. You have your father’s instincts for politics and you have compassion,” Varys says. “Compassion? I killed my lover with my bare hands and I shot my own father with a crossbow,” Tyrion says. “I never said you were perfect,” Varys says. “What is it you want, exactly?” Tyrion says. “Peace, prosperity, A land where the powerful do not prey on the powerless. The seven kingdoms needs a ruler loved by millions with a powerful army and the right family name,” Varys says. Tyrion tells Varys, “Good lucking finding him.” Varys answers “Who said anything about him?” Tyrion agrees to join Varys on his journey to Dany as long as he can keep drinking.
Meereen
The statue of the Harpy is torn down from the Pyramid. At the foot, Stalwart Shield, known as “White Rat”, takes off his helmet and smiles. He walks into a brothel looking a whore to cuddle with. He pays the woman and she sings to him while he rests his head on her breast, but then a man masked with the face of the Harpy slits his throat. The whore and the man in a golden mask stand over him.
Learning of this, Dany orders the Unsullied to patrol the streets. Missandei goes to Grey Worm to ask why an Unsullied would go to the brothel. He hesitates and then says that he doesn’t know. Daario and Hizdahr return to Meereen. Hizdahr tells Dany to reopen the fighting pits, but she refuses. Dany and her council of Daario, Missandei, Barristan, and Grey Worm discuss how she must deal with this major problem threatening her rule. Hizdahr explains that Yunkai gave into all their demands and installed a democratic council.
In bed together, Daario tells Dany that she should open the fighting pits and talks about how he used to fight in them after being sold to them as a child. He also says that she needs to reunite with her children. Dany is afraid she can’t control her dragons and doesn’t want another child to die, but she seeks out the dragons in the catacombs.
When Dany arrives, her dragons Viserion and Rhaegal are not happy to see her. They have grown huge and angry and they attack Dany. All that keeps them from eating her are the chains. Dany, scared and horrified, escapes the catacombs and realizes that she has lost control of them completely.
The Vale
Sansa and Littlefinger are on a tour of the Vale. Sansa sits with Littlefinger and Yohn Royce as they watch Robin train, remarking how pathetic he is. Littlefinger seems to be the only one entertained, while Sansa looks bored and Royce looks concerned. Littlefinger mentions that he is leaving Robin in Lord Royce’s care.
Brienne is cleaning her sword. She gets mad at Pod for his questions and says, “I don’t want anyone following me. I’m not a leader. All I ever wanted was to fight for a lord I believed in. All the good lords are dead and the rest are monsters.”
A convoy of Vale Knights with a carriage passes Brienne and Pod. Sansa and Littlefinger are inside the carriage talking about trust. Littlefinger tells Sansa that they will be going far away from Cersei Lannister’s grasp.
The Wall
Jon practices with Olly in the yard. Sam converses with Gilly about Stannis and then a weakened Alliser comes out complaining about the weakness of the recruits. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis on the Wall. Jon takes the winch elevator to the top of the wall and on the ride up, Jon asks Melisandre about the cold. She says she doesn’t feel it. She then asks him if he’s a virgin. When Jon says no, she says “good.” Jon meets Stannis with Melisandre and Davos following close behind. Stannis reminds Jon that the man who put a dagger into Robb’s heart is now ruling over Winterfell and asks if Jon doesn’t want to avenge his brother. Jon informs him that he wants a great many things but his loyalty belongs to the Watch. Stannis tells Jon that many love him (Jon), and some don’t, and then goes on that he doesn’t want to kill the Wildlings, he needs men to fight Roose Bolton after all. He wants them to kneel to him. He wants their king Mance to kneel to him. He gives Jon until nightfall to convince Mance to kneel.
Jon hurries off to Mance and tries to convince him. Jon meets with Mance attempts to negotiate by saying, “You told me you weren’t here to conquer, you told me you had bled enough.” Mance replies, “That’s right, but I don’t want them bleeding for Stannis Baratheon either.” “For the first time in history, Thenns and Hornfoots, the Ice River Clans, even the Giants, a life’s work uniting them. You didn’t do it for power; you didn’t do it for glory…you brought them together to save them because none of them will survive the winter not if they’re north of the wall. Isn’t their survival more important than your pride?” Jon says. “Pride…Fuck my pride,” Mance says.
In the yard of Castle Black, Mance is led out and tells Stannis, “Good luck in the Wars to Come.” Melisandre then burns Mance and Jon shoots him with an arrow before he starts screaming.
Kaiser,
I’m kinda hoping that’s the case.
For years we been told that stories will be condensed, streamlined and changed to make it to work for TV adaptation. Everyone has been advised to learn to separate the tv show with the books, but when the actual situation the episode aired, it seems a lot of people still having trouble separating books with the tv show.
He’s never seemed very enthusiastic about the role and may have had second thoughts about taking it. I’m sure the lack of screen time and interesting material didn’t help. I can’t say I will complain if he is killed off because he’s been one of my least favorite castings.
alcasinoroyale,
Starts slow clap…
shame that Illyrio could not return but it is not a decision made by D&D, but the actor’s schedule was full….
Maybe once D&D realised
Schrödinger’s Cat,
Yes, these spoilers too.
Schrödinger’s Cat,
This would be the most unintentionally hilarious thing.
Kaiser,
JamesL,
Schrödinger’s Cat,
Or a statue like in the books
Crabber’s Son,
Yes, although that is of what he looked like when he was young and it doesn’t look anything like him now.
Schrödinger’s Cat,
Yeah they should have painted a portrait of him with captions saying “I’m Illyrio, Remember me”. God one of the stupidest things I’ve heard all day LOL
cosca,
When you say
Is Arya in the episode?
The Dragon Demands,
^this
Thanks for the review Carcosa
Nimble Dick scaring Pod with the Squishers is one of the funniest moments in the books lol
Turncloak,
B
YOUR characters. No mine! I honestly will say I give two flying fucks about some of those characters “few” people whine about. Purist will complain about anything these days even if Lord Fat-Shit had a few lines in the books, and the show cut them for obvious reason.
Cheesy?? Have you read the books? There’s plenty if cheesy shit GRRM have written in the books that didn’t make it on the screen.
Oh… I get it. Because it was not written by GRRM so it becomes something to whine and bitch about.
The Purist will make anything important as long as they feel special. Sadly, they haven’t noticed the difference of book is book and show is show.
BTW folks, just a correction to the talk about
Since Illyrio’s namedropped but doesn’t actually show up in the premiere it’s possible that he and Varys have a scene together later in the season (Varys has to get up to something after Tyrion’s capture after all), so long as its one they could’ve filmed in Belfast (meaning an interior scene) once his play was done with. Remember that Tyrion and Varys head to Volantis for ep. 503 instead of heading straight to Meereen. If indeed the Golden Company are with Stannis and not in Volantis in the show, it could be that they head to Volantis to meet with Illyrio (where he could be on business or something).
Because it happened in the book. Stalwart Shield ring a bell?
Hopr you’re not a purist pretender
Greenjones,
King Stannis,
You can’t reason with these morons man. They don’t understand actors get paid to act so thats why they aren’t giving Missendei and Greyworm a free ride just to stand around Dany without doing some work.
alcasinoroyale,
This is konradsmith btw, alcasinoroyale.
Renly’s Peach,
What if Illyrio is a Faceless Man? That would also imply that Varys could well be too. Perhaps even high ranking officials within FM…. maybe…. Or not.
If Illyrio is FM, that’d easily explain him not being seen, probably off bending ears somewhere else….. like in Oldtown, or anywhere. Who would know?
Greenjones,
i cant read all of this as it is too long…but in regards to illyrio…im confused as to why people are so annoyed that people want him in…hes been a mystery since season one to show watcher…with him and varys in the scene with arya leaves a lot of loose ends open…he gave dany the effing eggs! i dont mind if hes not in..but id like them to somehow keep him present in some way…and so what if he was in a play…they recast daario and kevan and the mountain…why not illyrio?
alcasinoroyale,
The forum’s really inconsistent these days. I’d say it crashes at least once a day now.
And yeah, if Illyrio’s back, your above spec. is how I expect it to play out.
However, I still maintain that the leaked script conversation in E1 exists in the episode, it’s just that some people (including the Facebook poster who is relaying the gist of the script scene as opposed to quoting it) misread the intentions. I would also say that the recalling of the scene by Cosca is probably leaving out some of the lines that would reveal why the script leak relayer misinterpreted the notion.
In reality, the scene probably plays out as a mixture of the two accounts. Hizdahr and Daario state that Yunkai have more or less agreed to the terms of peace but both feel that this peace is tenuous and at the first sign of weakness, they would be eager to attack. This does not make the attack imminent but just a background threat to let the audience know that Dany is in a tough spot unless she really shows power in Meereen. The suggestion by Daario for Dany to bring the dragons out of hiding and into the open would be to remind the people of Meereen as well as get the word to other cities like Yunkai and Astapor that opposing her would be an awful idea on account of her having the nukes.
So, no I don’t think the script was changed, I just think the conversation was not relayed accurately and it caused some people to jump to conclusions (like OMG, Yunkai is going to attack!)
Cosca is free to comment on whether or not this sounds like how the scene went down or not.
Greenjones,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
That comes later. In ADWD rather than ASOS. I’m sure she still will.
Greenjones,
Greenjones,
Hopefully. That seems like a line that would be included in the show.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I think she’s just asking him as a reaction to his discomfort.
AngryGoTFan,
Penny? That gorgeous girl in BigBangTheory? She’s in GOT? WOO-HOO!!
Uh-oh! It’s not THAT Penny? Are you sure? DAMN! Ah, well. Such is whatever it is….. At least I can dream.
In D&D we trust! And given the changes they’ve made for this season its been validated! Thanks guys, keep up the excellent work.
Thanks, cosca!
I don’t give a flying fart if people think Illyrio is irrelevant – of course people remember him. Roger Allam is a popular and well-respected actor with a following, and Illyrio likely has a bigger role to play down the line. No Illyrio, no dragons for Dany.
Because he served his purpose already. Anything else coming out of his mouth at this point Varys can replace.
1. The Mountain needed to be Recast regardless because of the fight between the Red Viper and the chain of event of Tyrion and the Dorne Plot.
2. Daario, well we could do without him, am sure some whiners woulda cried claiming him as their favorite character. Perhaps there’s more to Daario further down the story.
cosca,
Okay, as a proud member of the perv side of the audience I’ll ask the important questions… any Emilia Clarke nudity?
Yea, I have heard the “no nudity clause” rumor but people said the same thing after season 2 and it wasn’t true then and I doubt it is true now.
Any word on yara and balon this season?
So in the same day Daniel Portman says LS is part of the show’s “future” and Richard Dormer pops up in the premiere (his first appearance since the season 3 events)….. and they want to make us believe LS is cut? Right.
Probably should have commented earlier (when the comments were actually discussing it), but I’m thinking the show didn’t include the Valonqar part of the prophesy because it’s too “spoilery”. I think the show purposely avoids outright spoilers. So much so, that instead of working around them, they simply cut them all together (the Red Wedding in Dany’s House of the Undying visions, comes to mind for this argument).
Val,
Richard Dormer probably went because he lives in the UK and was once part of the show. A few other previous cast members were there too. He also did an interview some time ago where he said the show runners haven’t contacted him and he thinks he has been written out of the show.
If the biggest problem some people have is Illyrio being absent, I think this means that it is an excellent season premiere. It seems a little more muted, but really this is required after many characters have gone off on different journeys, however I haven’t read anything that suggests it hasn’t lived up to its high reputation.
JamesL,
I’m surprised it took so long for someone to ask this.
A fair question.
JamesL,
There was only one other previous cast member at the premiere.. Mark Addy, who is always going to these things every year. As far as I know, Dormer hadn’t made a GOT-related appearance since 2013.
Greenjones,
LOL Any updates on that pervy website that tracks that kind of stuff?
Turncloak,
My Unsullied parents didn’t recognize Illyrio 5 episodes after he was introduced in Season 1, when Arya spots him walking with Varys. You’d ve amazed at what people forget when they don’t already know who or what is important to the larger story beforehand.
He is really an unimportant character in the show. [Spoiler] In the books there’s a decent chance he is the actual father of fAegon (not super familiar with the details of this theory as I give less than two shits about Young Griff but whatever). Since the Griffs are almost certainly cut though,[/spoiler] Illyrio’s only importance is a degree of separation between Varys and Daenerys. Why involve a nothing character that no one remembers or cares about when all the information he can give can also be given by Varys, a great character who has great chemistry with Tyrion? Absolutely nothing is lost in cutting Illyrio from the scene.
Melisandre’s making Jon Snow uncomfortable already? Not unexpected. I’m looking forward to that adversarial relationship getting translated from the books this season.
I’m concerned that Shireen’s in danger from her, though as Stannis’ sole heiress, it does seem strange to consider that she could be sacrificed. Melisandre’s conversation with Selyse in episode 4×07 notwithstanding:
“Your daughter must be with us. The Lord [of Light] needs her.”
According to IMDB (so take it with a grain of salt), Stannis (Stephen Dillane) is slated to appear in 6 episodes this season, the most he’s had since Season 1.
Yara (Gemma Whelan), is listed as appearing in episodes 5×07, x09 & x10. Nothing listed for any other Greyjoys except for Theon. Alfie Allen’s only listed in 5×01 and 5×10 at the moment. Anything happening with Balon will likely happen offscreen.
I’d rather avoid speculating about Arya’s storyline until she appears. Show watchers, brace yourselves: Maisie Williams has a lot to do this season.
alcasinoroyale,
I guess I should be honoured that someone went to the trouble of re-arranging my summary. One thing though. This episode does not have a cold open. That scene is after the opening credits.
Hodor Targaryen,
My guess is that D&D weren’t sure if they might need Manc alive, but when they actually planned out season 5 they realised he wasn’t needed, and other, perhaps more recognisable characters (Tormund)
Hu Hodor Targaryen,
My guess is that D&D weren’t sure if they might need Mance alive, but when they actually planned out season 5 they realised he wasn’t needed, and other, perhaps more recognisable characters (Tormund) could fill the role. I don’t completely blame them for this, it’s a shame, and a bit annoying, but these things happen in TV.
At least Illyrio is mentioned. If you want to complain about continuity, complain about the probably permanent absence of the Brotherhood.
HBO killed the song of ice and firee
yeah
HBO killed the song of ice and firee
A quick fact: the premiere is now online. This post should not be construed as encouraging piracy in any way, it is only intended as a newsworthy fact. This is truly my last post until May!
Patchface,
No it isn’t
Luka Nieto,
^THIS
The prophecy from the books turned Cersei intro a traditional evil queen stereotype. I’m glad at least on the show her complex relationship with Tyrion won’t be retconned by that lousy valonqar reference…
cosca,
Hmmm. Pretty sure at least one of the articles said it did have a cold open.
Chris,
It doesn’t.
Cosca,
first of all, thank you for your review.
Secondly, can you detail a little bit the scene with Jaime and Cercei? What does he say? How is their interaction? I guess it doesn’t play at all like in the books.
Also, any other Jaime scene?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/game-of-thrones/11480846/game-of-thrones-season-5-wars-to-come-review.html
“Encouragingly bold”
“The Wars to Come had something genuinely new to satisfy fans”
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/game-of-thrones/34619/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-spoiler-free-review-the-wars-to-come
“impressive season 5 opener”
“Game Of Thrones is simply too big to fail”
This too. http://www.gamesradar.com/game-thrones-season-5-premiere-first-look-reaction-mild-spoilers/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=totalfilm
King Tommen,
You more or less said everything on the topic that I was going to say. But in addition:
Most of the people complaining about the lack of Illyrio seem to have little, if any, grasp of how television shows work. The actor who played Illyrio was not contracted, he had another job at the time of filming and was not available. Therefore, if they wanted Illyrio in the scene they would have had to re-cast him. Re-casting requires casting calls to be sent out to agents, and a casting director to be paid to find a halfway decent replacement for a character that would only appear in two minutes of one episode. It was a financial decision, end of story. The character’s involvement, as well as his absence, could easily be explained and his appearance made in a later season (if at all). They don’t have to pay the casting director for however much time it takes to find a new Illyrio, and they don’t have to pay an actor. That money can now go to things like sets, and costumes, and CGI dragons. It was a business decision made by the producers and it doesn’t really matter whether you like it or not because that’s just how the business works. They’re running on a limited budget and if you want special effects, things have to be sacrificed. End of discussion.
In before “But they re-cast so many other characters!” Yeah, characters that were actually crucial to the show. Illyrio really isn’t crucial. Would it have been nice to have him? Sure, that would have been cool. But it doesn’t work like that. Just doesn’t.
I can’t believe that one character not showing up is such a big area of discussion. They do so many things so right, but people on forums instead tend to focus on that one little thing they omitted or adapted in a slightly unconvincing way. Frankly, for a show that many regard as one of the greatest ever, it has the most critical fanbase I’ve ever seen.
And here’s another. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-03-19/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-spoiler-free-preview
EDIT: And another. http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/tv/game-of-thrones-season-5–tv-premiere-review-kit-harington-emilia-clarke-and-peter-dinklage-are-on-top-form-in-the-battle-for-westeros-10119067.html
Alex Stroup,
In the books GRRM quickly has writes a line about how Cersei later asked her teacher what Valonqar meant. GRRM HAD to tell you what it meant. How do you do that with the show? I guess you could have Cersei ask Maggy what it means, but then what’s the point of that? Total waste of time, just say brother. The word Valonqar isn’t important, what it means is important.
Yet another. http://www.cnet.com/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-spoiler-free-review/
EDIT: This too
http://www.heatworld.com/2015/03/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-the-wars-to-come-s05e01-recap-preview-review-and-spoilers#.VQq65cItGUk
Which places appear in the opening credits? Is Pentos back? And do they show Sunspear already?
Looks like Illyrio won’t be showing up
Not gonna do it. I am spoiled enough. But thanks for posting for those who are interested.
Cry moar.
Charles M,
yeah but they haven’t replaced valonqar with brother in the show they’ve cut the last part of the prophecy.
Fat Manderly left out. Fat Illyrio left out. Is this a coincidence? Who’ s next?
You know it. A fattie will be left out, a fat man will be left behind in 2016, left to write fanfiction after a successful TV show, decades after its end.
This is another common factor to fandoms that perplexes me, despite the fact that I’ve been a “fanboy” of various things for 30+ years. The only thing that is important is communicating concepts, and communicating that the main characters understand, misunderstand or do not understand the concepts. Novels need to use multiple terms for entities for the same reason that good writers mix in synonyms whenever possible: it gets tedious to read the same word/phrase repeatedly. TV/Stage has the opposite constraint: they must use fewer words, and therefore they do not get to use statements that consistently link Synonym I with Synonym II.
But “valanqar” is not going to be any more important than the color of Harry Potter’s eyes; what will be important is the other way to phrase it.
That actually might be sensible. The show has done a very good job of developing Cersei’s hatred for Tyrion as being based on Tyrion having killed their mother. Adding this might seem to confound that development.
Besides, given that so many GRRM fans seem to have convinced themselves that the prophecy could refer to any male with an older sibling, what does it really matter? 😀
alcasinoroyale,
BTW, alcasinoroyale, the mods on AFOIAF shut down the thread just now for some fucking reason I can’t fathom.
EDIT: Among other threads. It’s a veritable Red Wedding of show-thread shutting down over there.
Phew. Done! Since we already got a pretty complete synopsis of the premiere, thanks to cosca and alcasinoroyale, I wrote the “In the books” section for the Game of Thrones wiki. Here is an example. It’s a great way to see what’s been adapted and from which chapters, especially nowadays that chapters are rarely adapted as a single unit; now it’s more common for scenes from the book to be mixed in different scenes in the show.
I just wanted to get ahead of it, because there are many details which are often only added months later, since scenes often have dialogue and events from many different chapters. For example, Cersei’s scenes in this episode are taken from Cersei I (she awakes to discover that Tywin is dead), Cersei II (Tywin’s wake, meeting Lancel), Cersei VI (meeting the High Sparrow for the first time) and Cersei VIII (the Maggy flashback is recounted in full first in this chapter, even if it was alluded to earlier.)
This section is not for differences, but for what’s been adapted. There’s a whole page dedicated to differences. So, the differences are avoided in this text; for example, if a conversation between Tyrion and Varys was between him and Illyrio in the books, the name is avoided, and there will be a link to Varys’s page, specifically the “In the books” section, where it will be noted that Varys takes some of Illyrio’s role.
Here it goes, if anyone’s interested to see it. I’ll welcome any notes, especially from those who have watched the episode already!
The episode is adapted from the following chapters of “A Storm of Swords”:
*Chapter 71, Daenerys VI: Daenerys Targaryen orders the Harpy statue at the top of the Great Pyramid of Meereen to be pulled down.
*Chapter 76, Jon XI: Jon Snow is training a young black brother in the yard of Castle Black. Melisandre comes down and tells Jon to meet Stannis at the top of the Wall. On the elevator, Jon feels strangely attracted to the Red Woman. He asks her if she is not cold, and she says she never is. They find Stannis on the edge of the Wall, where the King asks Jon for his help to regain the North from Roose Bolton, the new Warden of the North, who betrayed Jon’s brother. However, Jon says his loyalty is pledged to the Night’s Watch. Then, Stannis says he needs the wildlings to pledge their fealty to him, and if their King Mance Rayder does not bend the knee, he will be burnt.
The episode is adapted from the following chapters of “A Feast for Crows”:
*Chapter 3, Cersei I: Cersei awakes from her dream to discover that his father is dead. She learns that Tyrion escaped from his cell and is responsible for Tywin’s murder.
*Chapter 7, Cersei II: Cersei arrives at the Great Sept of Baelor, escorted by Ser Meryn Trant, for Tywin’s wake. Cersei feels surrounded by Tyrells. She talks to Kevan, Tywin’s brother, and encounters Kevan’s son Lancel, who looks unrecognizably plain. He has become a religious fanatic. Cersei fears what Lancel may tell the High Septon about King Robert’s death in an apparent hunting accident, which Lancel had helped stage.
*Chapter 28, Cersei VI: Cersei meets the High Sparrow.
*Chapter 36, Cersei VIII: a young Cersei and her friend visit a fortuneteller called Maggy in the woods. Cersei begs Maggy for her fortune, and Maggy answers her questions: yes, she will be queen, until one younger and more beautiful replaces her; no, she will not have children with the king, but he will have many; and her own children will die. Scared, Melara urges Cersei to flee.
*Chapter 41, Alayne III: Littlefinger discusses Cersei’s reign with Sansa Stark, who is disguised as Alayne.
The episode is adapted from the following chapters of “A Dance with Dragons”:
*Chapter 1, Tyrion I: Tyrion arrives at Pentos, drunk. They are at Illyrio’s manse, an ally of Varys. Tyrion’s new benefactor convinces him not to drown himself in wine and instead go on to to serve the only one who he claims can save the Seven Kingdoms.
*Chapter 2, Daenerys I: an Unsullied soldier visits a brothel alone to cuddle with a prostitute, but is then killed by a Son of the Harpy. Daenerys is enraged by this. Hizdahr zo Loraq asks Daenerys to reopen the fighting pits. The current state of Yunkai is discussed.
*Chapter 5, Tyrion II: Tyrion is now headed to Meereen, in order to serve Daenerys Targaryen and help her win the throne. Tyrion is told that Varys and Illyrio are old friends.
*Chapter 10, Jon III: in the yard of Castle Black, Mance Rayder is sacrificed in a pyre by Melisandre. As Mance burns, Jon has him shot with arrows to end him mercifuly.
*Chapter 11, Daenerys II: Daenerys visits Viserion and Rhaegal in the catacombs of the Great Pyramid, but they are growing more savage every day and are out of control.
*Chapter 23, Daenerys IV: Daario returns to Meereen from his mission. Daario urges Dany to attack her enemies before they attack her, to loose the dragons on them.
For the life of me I can’t understand why people are raging against the lack of a certain Varys friend. We all have our preferences, of course, but people seem to focus sometimes on such insignificant things…
Luka Nieto,
Well done. I forgot that Jon also
Wimsey,
I just don’t get the point of including the flashback though. I mean, the margaery rivalry has been established in s3 and s4 and the fact that cersei fears for her children’s safety has been established in every single scene she’s had ever.
Hodor Targaryen,
oh i 100% agree. People seem to be thinking I’m upset that Illyrio was cut which is not true. Im merely stating that I can see him return in the shows future. Especially since his name was mentioned this episode.
Turncloak,
I had forgotten all about it too.
This required a lot of re-acquainting myself with the text. The ASOAIF wiki summaries are sorely insufficient too often, so I had to look things up in the books. Things like Jon having bowmen shoot the sacrifice victim, which I didn’t remember at all. The show will simply make it more personal and direct, with Jon being the shooter.
Jared,
Thank you Greenjones for all the reviews.
jentario,
jentario,
Did he say that?
Trystane,
Cosca, who was there, said
By the way, a couple of reviews mention
Luka Nieto,
Luka Nieto,
Nice work! Shows that the “show is really different now” thing is gravely exaggerated (at least for this episode)
dutch maester,
Dude. I’ve had to cover spoilers in like all your posts. Try harder.
dutch maester,
It’s mentioned in passing. It’s certainly not the epic CGI scene that it has become in the show. But it did happen 😉
August 2014
Hinds said, “On Game of Thrones I have not yet been roasted, crucified, slaughtered or whatever they do with people in that show eventually, so I will be coming back for shooting again in the fifth series.”
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/game-thrones-season-5-spoilers-mance-rayder-return-show-filming-updates-premiere-date-1460612
Ciaran Hinds didn”t say he has more to do this season…….
1. No Valonqar – i always prefered Brienne and her conflicting vows and ideals being responsible for Jaime´s death. And even if Jaime will become valonqar, it is much better to not have it spoiled by the prophecy. I also did not like it as the motivation for Cersei hatred towards Tyrion.
2. Mance death – increasing number of ressurections and fake deaths annoyed me in the books, so i am glad this is out.
3. Prospect of Mereen arc being finished at the end of this season and Dany invading Westeros in season 6. I was always a supporter of this theory, so i am very happy.
They have to at least give Loras a LITTLE bit of his book personality besides the cliche’ BS he is doing now. Not a big fan of what they are currently doing with the character.
Luka Nieto,
mau,
And that’s all he ever said about s5 to my knowledge.
The proper tag to use is [ spoiler ] text [ /spoiler ], without spaces. Just a reminder to everyone.
Luka Nieto,
All I could find is this (granted, I didn’t look very hard):
https://watchersonthewall.com/maisie-williams-teases-season-5-cast-share-awkward-fan-encounters-ciaran-hinds-confirms-return/
Kind of funny in retrospect. Anyway, I remember that there was another Hinds interview that someone linked in the comments (some time before this one IIRC), where he said he had more stuff this season. I might be misremembering things, though.
Greenjones,
Yes… And to my knowledge also…
Luka Nieto,
Yep.
JamesL,
Not as such:
One amendment to the second synopsis:
There’s also one scene missing from both synopsis:
Another point:
jentario,
Ultimately, the primary reason that I think Mance may burn for real is that Sansa is going to Winterfell, and she will take over the ‘sleeper agent’ role inside the Castle. Given her prior history with Theon, she will likely be the one who moves him to rebel against Ramsay – whether or not that involves fArya and facilitating their escape. Mance could participate in that dynamic as well, but he might be a bit redundant. I think that the spearwives are gone, and the Bard angle likely is as well, as Mance’s singing proficiency has never been established (not saying that it couldn’t be, of course). Then there’s the Pink Letter to consider, which claims that Mance has been captured and is being flayed piece by piece. The Pink Letter could be total BS or based on faulty information, but if it’s accurate, then Mance could already be dead in TWOW anyway. If so, it’s not that much of a divergence to kill him early, given the adaptive choices that have been made in adjacent storylines.
Again, Mance may very well turn up alive later in the season. I wouldn’t be shocked. I just thought that the way that cosca described the scene could at least support the theory that he’ll die. It was Mance’s attitude towards being burned than anything – accepting of his fate, displaying no fear. I seem to recall Rattleshirt broke before he was burned. I do remember that Mance/Rattleshirt gets shot with an arrow to end his suffering.
I’m not explicitly rooting for Mance to die, but I do think that it would be a sensible adaptive choice (relative underuse of Ciaran Hinds aside) to cut down on the number of fake-deaths/resurrections in the show. If Mance’s future plot can be written around, I’m fine with him dying early. And as I already mentioned, I was not a fan of the “glamour”. Regardless of whether or not Mance survives, I won’t be sorry to see that concept burn.
Werthead,
Thanks for the clarifications! 😉
What did the 5×02 promo show?
Jared,
I agree with your analysis and suspicions 😉
Greenjones,
Maybe they’re getting ready to open the Season 5 section? Or maybe they just got tired of all the irrelevant personal sniping that was going on in there. They certainly gave people enough chances to cut that behavior out.
I’m not all that fussed, to be honest. It was fun following the Casting, News, and Speculation thread in the offseason – it was a good place for catch-all Season 5 discussion, and usually kept on track by a number of diligent, reasonable, posters such as yourself, alcasinoroyale, Seneti, Arkash, and others. But it had taken a very sharp dive in recent weeks as there was less casting and filming news to discuss and certain posters with their own personal agendas started to spam the thread (the Dany vs. Stannis BS – good God). As fate would have it, that downturn coincided with the annual influx of people who love to mock and whine about the show, frequently displaying an unfortunate lack of perspective on the intricacies of the adaptive process. Those posters had mostly stayed away in the offseason, but hooo boy, are they back now. I can tolerate or ignore a handful of those people, but once they begin to represent a significant percentage of posters and start gleefully supporting each other in a vicious cycle of negativity, it’s time to get the hell out of there.
This is usually around the time of year that I ditch AFOIAF completely. Think I’ll take this as my cue to do it a bit earlier this year. The good people here at WOTW are more than enough to sustain me for these final few weeks before Season 5 premieres. Once the usual bevy of recaps and reviews returns, I’ll have plenty of ways to get my Game of Thrones discussion fix. 🙂
Luka Nieto,
It was hard to make out because there was supposed to be a trailer just for 502 but then it opened up and looked like a trailer for the whole season. But assuming the start of the trailer was for 502 it looks like that episode will focus more on:
Werthead,
Thanks! Any other scene you can remember?
What do Hizdahr and Daario discuss with Dany, particularly in regards to Yunkai? There have been conflicting reports. Basically, how does that whole scene (or scenes?) play out?
Luka Nieto,
Please cover your spoilery questions as well. Err on the side of caution.
dutch maester,
Werthead,
Can you describe the scene with jaime and cersei? Does he in some measure admit to freeing tyrion?
Werthead,
ಠ╭╮ಠ
Remember when Loras was supposed to be faithful to Renly? Remember, D&D? God, when are the white walkers gonna come and just kill everyone already
Well, Renly’s Peach, I’m for one am in awe at D&D again:
Stannis the Mannis,
and like Dune, the true-to-the-book version may turn out inferior
Renly’s Peach,
Where? In books maybe, but this is show…
zambi76,
Hehe, I was alerted to the news only cause I saw your Tumblr post about it.
mau,
Season 2, 1 and even a scene in 3, back when he was somewhat less of a caricature.
dee,
Doubtful at this point.
Werthead,
If they showed more of an entire season preview, were there any spoilery scenes not yet shown in the previews we have seen?
dee,
It is questionable which version is better. Both are not very good. I would love if HBO would try to adapt Dune after GoT is over. But better not talk about Dune, the briliant series of books that was left unfinished because of the author´s death.
Oh the legendary Ranly-Loras romance. Most of the book readers didnt even know it is existed before the show’s first gay scene.
I just wish George would hurry up. Many of the things wholly cut are my favorite things in the entire book series. The show is entertaining but ultimately a disappointment when I compare it to how riveting the books are.
Each one with their interests 🙂
I second the question about Jaime 🙂
Werthead,
is the scene with Cercei his only scene in episode 1?
And how does that play exactly? Is she bitching him? How is he reacting? etc..
Thanks a lot ina dvance
This is when good reading comprehension comes in handy. Don’t use your lack of it as an excuse.
Andrew,
Yes, the books are more detailed and complex but I enjoy the show so much more. The funny thing is that I am an avid reader and I still enjoy the show more and more as it goes on and changes more things. It is quite unique, while I don’t judge adaptions for what they change I usually prefer the source material.
Two new very positive reviews!
http://www.heatworld.com/2015/03/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-the-wars-to-come-s05e01-recap-preview-review-and-spoilers#image-7
“All in all it’s a superb opener, cunningly advancing the story of most of the major characters, while providing us with enough macabre humour, touches of gore, sex and swearing to keep all devotees happy, and ending on a powerful moment of…
http://www.cnet.com/news/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-1-spoiler-free-review/
“Game of Thrones’ season 5 makes a confident, bloody debut”
“HBO’s fantasy saga is back with a swaggering episode that brings new characters to the fore and something long absent from Westeros — hope.”
Andrew,
Yes, because having 100.000 characters out of which you may recognize maybe only 20%, reading hundreds of pages about people just wandering around and never getting anywhere, characters almost seeing each other again and again, characters being introduced and seeming important only to die several hundreds pages later without achieving anything, is highly entertaining.
Of course the books are fun because you get to spend much more time with the characters, to get inside their head, to see more properly their evolution and their different shades of personality etc, but in terms of entertainment, the movies are much better. Much more alert, things actually happen, characters actually meet each other etc.
Greenjones,
Yeah I just noticed that. Like you said, I think they’re getting ready to open a Season 5 section.
KeeperOfOaths,
I was expressing my personal opinion, nothing more. No need to get snarky.
For one, I like the meandering’ness of the book series. But that’s me.
Luka Nieto,
Dany isn’t happy about that. “Concessions?”
“Politics is about the art of compromise.”
“But I’m not a compromise. I’m a queen.” (cue wry smile from Barristan)
“Indeed, but they ask only for one thing, that the fighting pits are re-opened.”
There’s then a lengthy discussion about the fighting pits being open or not. Hizdahr argues about it being part of the cultural heritage of Slaver’s Bay and so on, how the former slave-fighters are keen on it etc. Dany gets annoyed and asks him how many times he has to hear the word “No.” It then cuts to the bedroom scene where Daario, more diplomatically and privately, talks about how it might be a good idea. We also find out that TV-Daario is from Tolos and grew up in the fighting pits there. He made his master so much money that his master freed him when he died.
The tone of the scene is that Yunkai is going to roll over for all of Dany’s demands (and agree to keep slavery outlawed) if the fighting pits can stay open. Dany says no. It’s unclear if Hizdahr is supposed to be asking Dany’s permission and go back to Yunkai or if he has already told the Wise Masters yes and Dany is now contradicting him. Daario’s later discussion basically says the discussion is not over. So at the end of 501 Meereen and Yunkai are still engaged in diplomacy and open hostilities have not broken out. From this episode, it could go either way. The tone of the dragon scene – that Daario indicates that Dany needs to talk and be diplomatic if she can’t control her dragons, and she then tests it and discovers she can’t – suggests that she will agree to re-open the pits pretty sharpish.
It’s not Jaime’s only scene, as I believe he’s at the wake/reception. However, he doesn’t say anything in that scene. The tone of the scene is that Cersei is furious with Tyrion and with Jaime. Jaime warns Cersei that too many of the lords lived in fear of Tywin and now he’s gone they will turn on the Lannisters, but Cersei seems oblivious to that and thinks it will be business as usual.
Jeb,
Right, keeping their options open, that’s the way they do things, makes sense.
The Red Carpet premiere video is up on Youtube
Werthead,
Was there anyone new who appeared in the opening credits besides Nathalie Emmanuel and Michiel Huisman? Kind of gives you an insight of who they focus on in Season 5.
Turncloak,
Oh okay sorry about that. That was really a response to a lot of what I was reading, seems your post wasn’t very representative what I was really arguing against.
Werthead,
Can you describe the Stannis scenes please? What’s his dialogue with Jon like?
Werthead,
Can you describe Tyrion and Varys scene about Dany and scene with Kevan, please?
I can not believe the amount of whining about
How come no one felt that way about most of the other deaths in the show like Pedro Pascal and Oberyn? It’s ridiculous. The show and books are praised for the fact that no character is safe, then they complain when they found out a character is dying…
Thank you so much, Werthead. I am so glad that he warns her about that. At least they show a little bit that he is much more politically intelligent than her. And speaking about the same storyline, any discussion about the next Hand of the King?
Charles M,
Because the character you’re referring to is portrayed by a very well-known actor, at least relative to the other cast members. He was slated for a very interesting S5 plotline, based on the information in Dance with Dragons. People were generally disappointed in the show’s portrayal of the character, and now he’s being robbed of his chance to redeem himself.
Werthead,
Thank you very much. That clears it up.
BTW, are you sure Daario said he’s from Tolos, not Tyrosh?
Andrew,
I do too. The meandering (which only ONE character does in ONE book, btw) was very pleasing to read. It’s world building and a character journey.
Honestly, the only reason some people are up in arms about it is because of their frustration with the series not being finished already. I have a feeling once everything’s done, and we can look back in hindsight and see where everything fits, it won’t be a problem.
Charles M,
Because one of those characters is supposed to die and the other one not? Not sure what you’re asking here.
Is Aemon in the episode?
HBO’s “Game of Thrones”
George RR Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire”
There shouldn’t be any “this was supposed to happen” or “why is this happening”
Two different entities!
Luka Nieto,
Luka Nieto,
It also could be bron , Loras , tormond , little finger , hizda Zar zo laraq besides barriston
She could have been lying of course…
Thank you to WoTW and Fun.com for the pop figurine! I’m in shock, actually, lol.
Did anyone that watch it think that maybe the glamour trick was goin on and it would be revealed later
Big Mac,
I always thought she was lying.
Grand maester giz,
Nope. As I said, what we know of this character is that it’s someone who’s been in the show for a while but hasn’t had much to do until now, but if they were faithful to the books would have a lot more to do this season, yet they killed him off early.
It’s either Mance or Barristan, unless someone has a better suggestion that fits what we know of this doomed character?
1. A long-standing Game of Thrones character.
2. A small role until now.
3. Their role increases considerably in AFFC and/or ADWD.
4. The actor has read the books (or is aware of his storyline.)
Grand maester giz,
Cover your spoilers or you risk Sue’s warhammer.
Is it possible that in the books,
Luka Nieto,
And what about Ser Meryn?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Werthead,
I know this is a long shot as most people don’t read the end credits, but did you catch who played White Rat (or any other guest roles for that matter)?
clk,
It doesn’t fit. I repeat:
1. A long-standing Game of Thrones character.
2. A small role until now.
3. Their role increases considerably in AFFC and/or ADWD.
4. The actor has read the books (or is aware of their storyline.)
Luka Nieto,
Ian McElhinney has previously stated that he has read the books. While we have no definitive answer, his interviews wrt GoT don’t indicate that Ciarian Hinds is the type of person who would read the books. I would be highly skeptical of anyone who claimed that was the case.
Sean C.,
And from the reviews I read, it wasn’t a very good play.
King Tommen,
Wasn’t there a fan photo taken with Hinds in New York, around the time of the season 3 take the black promotion, that showed him holding one of the ASOIAF books?
King Tommen,
He only has to be aware of his storyline.
But you’re right the other actor fits much better. Unfortunately 🙁
Flora Linden,
Luka Nieto,
Yeah, I can’t remember the exact wording Hibbard used, but I got the impression it was an actor who had been on the show from the beginning as well.
Luka Nieto,
Though, yeah, I find it highly likely it’s Barristan. 🙁
cosca,
Cosa, while you’re at explaining every absolute nano-second of the episode, could you give me some solid financial advice?
And then, could you tell me how they get the caramilk into the caramilk bar?
And could you explain how much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
Thanks.
mau,
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Maybe this is another case of inconsistency – things like Greyjoy uncles plural, or Trystane being the younger son of House Martell, and later on it doesn’t match with later details.
A possible loophole is since Robert is called the Usurper, he’s not the true king, so therefore Cersei didn’t have children with the king? I don’t know, now I’m splitting hairs, lol.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I WANT TO BELIEVE.
But I’m not sure I do…
Flora Linden,
Those are not inconsistencies.
Tyrion mentioned that Theon’s unnamed uncles had burnt Lannisport years ago. Their existence has not been contradicted since then. Simply, we haven’t heard anything more about them. Maybe they died, maybe they are not as relevant as in the books. At any rate, it’s not a continuity issue. There has been no contradiction.
As for Trystane being the “youngest son”, I thought it was a continuity issue as well, but recently someone successfully argued that it wasn’t. And it technically isn’t! Tyrion doesn’t say Trystane is “Doran Martell’s youngest son”, which would imply he has other kids, contrary to what we’ll see in season five. Tyrion says he’ll marry Myrcella to the youngest son of House Martell. In other words, the youngest member of House Martell. There’s a difference.
Alex Stroup,
Illyrio seems to be something that the show tried to do, but the schedules just didn’t match up. I don’t see how we can say that’s a reason for not liking the show: it doesn’t matter if Stanley Kubrick was showrunner: they wouldn’t have gotten Allem no matter what.
Although I’ll bet Allem wishes he’d been available now.
As for Volonquar, there might be a good reason they didn’t include it: they know how that’s going to turn out, so they don’t even want non-book watchers speculating on that part of the prophecy to retain the surprise.
Luka Nieto,
Oh, OK. You could tell I don’t pay enough attention to detail, lol! 🙂
About Cersei, I think
About Cersei’s child…. Well it is a mistake…. There is no way to explain it differently….
But, it is not irreparable… They simply can explain that child died and that Maggy it is not omnipotent, so she thought child would be born dead….
In reality, the child lived for several days or weeks…..
mau,
It’s not a mistake if Cersei was simply lying to Cat.
All this talk of Roger Allem is reminding me of his brilliant character in the Thick of It.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma1x05cloe1qgavwyo1_500.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma249sv9HM1ruyz4so1_500.gif
Tyrion Pimpslap,
There is a scene with Robert too…
mau,
I don’t recall them discussing the supposed child.
Luka Nieto,
I think it’s Hinds. First off, the actor in question mentioned being surprised by his low number of shooting dates for the season. Barristan will definitely be in a number of scenes, both indoors in NI and on location in Croatia, whereas we now know Mance will only be in two scenes. And the shooting dates for those must have been a certain indication of not having any real storyline for the season.
But didn’t the actor in question also say the producers called him to inform him his character was being killed off? If so, I think that also points in Hinds direction. In last seasons “Fallen Roundtable”, or whatever it was called, both Mark Stanley and Thomas Sangster talked about learning of their deaths from reading the scripts. Same thing apparently happened to whatever actor Jonathan Pryce was talking about a while back. Meaning the producers usually don’t inform their actors they’re being written out of the show. It’s probably more likely they’ll make an exception for a relatively well known actor such as Ciarán Hinds, rather than someone like Ian McElhinney, sad to say.
Thing is though, even if Hinds is the actor in question, doesn’t necessarily mean Barristan will live…
Tyrion Pimpslap,
S1E5
Cersei Lannister: I felt something for you once, you know?
Robert Baratheon: [lowers his gaze] I know.
Cersei Lannister: Even after we lost our first boy. For quite a while, actually. Was it ever possible for us? Was there ever a time, ever a moment
Tyrion Pimpslap,
At about 2:00.
Turncloak,
I could see him being annoyed at being killed off. If that’s the case, he’s not nearly as prominent as he is in the books, and it would mean, all told, he has almost NO scenes:
Mance is introduced in Season 3 Episode 1. Has one scene.
Mance is featured in Season 3 Episode 2. Has two scenes back-to-back.
Mance is not seen again until Season 4 Episode 10. Has two scenes back-to-back.
And now he’s just in Season 5, Episode 1, has probably two scenes… and that’s it.
Wow. Talk about a lighter than expected workload.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
They do. In 1×05, “The Wolf and the Lion”:
Tibatonk,
If the rumors
I don’t see non Illyrio as a problem, who knows maybe he had a dodgy vindaloo for dinner the night before, and was hammering his chamber pot while the Varys/Tyrion conversation was happening.
To the moderators: I forgot to spoiler tag my last post and am to late to edit it. Very sorry about that. I hope you can fix it soon.
I’m glad to see this opener is markedly entertaining. Usually people are frustrated with opening episodes, as they are usually focused on reintroducing everyone.
Nilan,
Thank you, its good to have fans.
First off, I recommend some reading:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Funny-Practical-Situation/dp/0743204727
mau,
I stand corrected.
I think you are misreading complaints.
For Oberyn, this did not happen. Oberyn had great material and they used Pedro Pascal’s talents to the fullest.
I would have had no complaints if Mance was killed off if he actually contributed something meaningful to the story. But he barely appeared. He had less screentime in his 3 seasons than Oberyn did in his 1. Thus yes, they completely botched Mance from day 1. I think it was a miss-cast as they didn’t know how to use Cirian’s talents.
Nilan,
Ciaran hinds never understood the show though. He always said it was too violent and he doesnt like fantasy.
What is up with the essay length comments?
Also what is up with WiC copying the articles on this site?
Turncloak,
I think he was great in 4×10, but was very surprised they didn’t show us Mance’s perspective in 4×09. Very surprised, and disappointed. The episode would’ve been better if the wildlings North of the Wall had a human face during the battle, for starters. Also, it was a great opportunity to showcase Mance as a commander. We hear a lot about Mance uniting 90 clans… I wanted to see it in action.
His introduction was rather lackluster, too. I agree.
A question about some of the death speculation…
mariamb,
By episode 4 we’ll be in TWOW and by episode 9 we’ll be into ADOS.
cosca,
Oh ok. I really thought it would be a cold open. Anyway so it’s opening credits, then the prophecy, and then Cersei hearing the bells ring.
Luka Nieto,
mariamb,
No idea. I don’t dare going there.
The glamour plot was always way too Saturday morning cartoon for me and I don’t think I ever grasped the motivations everyone had in doing it. I really have a hard time envisioning the show bothering with any aspect of it.
King Tommen,
I never liked it either.
GeekFurious,
Nope, by episode 9, Arya’s Mercy chapter, therefore Winds for her, but Sansa’s is so far removed and altered from the books, there is no way to tell. Same goes for Jaime, his story has been so heavily altered this season, no telling where it will lead him. The remaining arcs will conclude season 5 with their end of Dances stories.
mariamb,
the only way I can see
I doubt this is the case as I think there is a plot purpose for killing Mance. It will leave the wildlings leaderless which is why Jon will rely on Tormund for their mission to Hardhome.
King Tommen,
Turncloak,
Luka Nieto,
No the Mance in the
A few episodes later they can make a “Prestige” like reveal of how the magic trick actually worked.
Again this is highly unlikely but we are dealing with a world with shadow magic
Turncloak,
Luka Nieto,
I agree it would be really corny. However, if D&D were on a mission to fake out both book readers and show watchers alike this would be a way to make it work.
Luka Nieto,
Incredibly convoluted. Like most of GRRM’s writing. I like it, warts and all, but he’s no literary wizard.
Luka Nieto,
No, I thought it much more effective to have the massive willing army, with fire behind it and Giants and mammoths before it, scare the living guys out of crows and audience alike. Sometimed sticking with one POV gives an air of mystery and fear and uncertainty that works wonderfully. The show runners made the right choice on this, even though I desperately wanted to see more of the inimitable Hinds!
In fact, Mance sent on super secret undercover mission to Winterfell with his Charlie’s Angels of washerwomen is pretty f’n stupid if you step back and think about it for more than 2 minutes.
ArgonathofBraavos,
*wildling, not willing
*guts, not guys
Go away autocorrect. I hate you.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Auto correct is the devil. Just the other day I asked my flat mate to bring home some glorious naughty penis when he went shopping, I of course meant glorious nashi pears, still not sure how that happened
King Tommen,
Yeah but his mission was fun!
Charlie’s Angels washerwomen…. lol
???
Ultimately I am saying I wish they could have expanded on book characters I like, but given they have made a strategic decision to go for 7 seasons and 8 seasons tops it means a lot of things having to be cut
But given the 7 seasons timeframe I accept they are cutting significant chunks out.
Frankly I don’t reckon GRRM can tie everything up in just two more books, he’ll expand and we’ll end up with enough spillover to cover 8 books
.
Ghost’s Lunch,
With ten seasons (or even nine) we’d also get seasons chock full of meandering filler for those characters who simply don’t have as much material (or much material left) as others —Brienne, Bran, Sansa, Jaime, those from the Iron Islands and Dorne subplots, etc. Or even worse, these characters wouldn’t appear for long periods of time, maybe even being absent for whole seasons. That already happened with Bran, and it only works with him because of where they left his character, but it wouldn’t work for most others.
Eight seasons I could see, certainly, or an extended seventh. But nine or ten? That’d be horrible for most characters and storylines, and the show’s overall quality would greatly suffer because of it.
Hodor Targaryen,
Many show watchers also believed Tyrion was dead at the end of “Blackwater.” But your argument still holds true. D&D tend to avoid GRRM’s numerous fake-outs. And thank the god for that!
The Dragon Demands,
Totally thought the same thing!
Not counting Dorne, Arya and Bran, is there a character that does not appear in the premiere?
Ragman’s Harbor,
The Boltons and Theon. And that’s it I think.
And Bran doesn’t really count because he’s off the whole season.
Maybe he showed up to try to get his job back.
Nilan,
Is there some way you missed several moderators on this site repeating COVER YOUR SPOILERS!?!
I think Cersei also mentioned something about a stillborn (or died soon after) dark-haired baby she had with Robert in 0101 or 0102 to Catelyn
Re an apparent scene in E1
The fake out is overdone in the books
The Glamour in particular will seem odd to TV viewers. There is a point to it in the books I’m sure (morale break the wildings without killing the one man who has real authority over them or perhaps to keep Val onside?) but I simply don’t think they have time to go into whatever the point of it is and then the Abel and Horn of Joramun stuff so I reckon they have really killed him
Stannis’s rationale is divide and conquer, eg Wildlings will be easier to manage as a splintered force. Jon perspective will be it’s not a good idea to have them as a Wight army and we get TV tension etc and Jon going to hardhome with Tormund, and Rattleshirt being opposed to Tormund moderate wildlings as a show version of the Weeper
Given I think Mance wrote Pink letter as a way to tell the Wildlings it was fake I don’t think we will have the Pink Letter in the show.
I am looking at Selyse in the snow in a different light, I reckon the captured Wildlings will revolt and trash Castle Black and kill the Queens Men.
Ironically there’s something about Hardhome in which I actually think Jon Snow might slowly start moving into a leadership position with many Wildlings, eg they follow him out of respect, same as NW so he ends up as an ironic unifying force. They seem to think it’s important to show on a limited budget while other battles are getting cut, so can tie in with furthering Jon leadership development arc (bigger version of Crasters) + further build the impending threat of the White Walkers (build on Fist of First Men, Crasters Sons etc)
It seems to be built as NW fighting WW’s at Hardhome but something about that shot of the lone Wildling listening to pounding on the Gate and everyone just gawking, that’s a Horror film thing and perhaps points to it being Wights/WW’s pounding on the door as it doesen’t seem to make sense to be acting like that if it is merely “Crows”. My 2 cents anyway
I’m crushing my hopes here and assuming that that’s it for
, as disheartening as it is.
Are we sure that the person the EW article talks about is a male, however? I’m not so sure. Although I do think we’re more likely to lose 4-5 ‘regulars’ when it’s all said and done, so pointing out one doesn’t make the others any safer.
What I find rather perplexing is that the use of magic is sometimes out of left field and pretty weird (shadow baby???), and yet no one has just done something common like step on a rusty nail and die of tetanus. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the pants.
“That Ser Whatshisname was daring and bold, fought hundreds of battles and conquered the dreaded Black Beast of Aaaaaaugh, but ate a bad mushroom and perished.”
Tibatonk,
The quotes don’t seem like something Ciaran Hinds would say, like how he is emotional about it and how he is going to miss it, he’s barely even been in the show. I think it is most likely Barristan or Grey Worm. It also said the actor has been on the show for several years which makes me think it is a character that has had significant screen time unlike Mance. Even though Grey Worm was introduced the same season he has spent far more time on set and has had more material than Mance.
Watchin all these red carpot videos makes me think for the watch will be this season
Luka Nieto,
How do you know that Jaime, Brienne, Sansa do not much book material left?? For all we know the last two books may be full of them!@
Except doesn’t Cersei and Robert talk about their child in a scene in Season 1?
Ragman’s Harbor,
So who is the smartest guy in the room?? DOMINIC “FUCKING” WEST 😉
Pigeon,
Khal Drogo died (or was going to die, before magic and later a cushion got in the way) of an infection due to a relatively small wound.
Can anyone confirm a Kevan sighting?
Good to see Lancel’s return confirmed.
Matt,
It’s beyond confirmed 🙂
This very fansite confirmed that he would feature at least in 5×10, the leaked script summary mentioned he’d be at Tywin’s funeral, and many reports from the premiere mention him and detail his conversation with Cersei about his son Lancel and the Sparrows.
cosca,
What’s Sam’s conversation with Gilly like? What are their feelings about Stannis?