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Photos released from Game of Thrones Season 5 Episode 8: “Hardhome”

Posted on by Sue the Fury

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HBO has released 6 new photos from “Hardhome,” the eighth episode of Game of Thrones season 5.

The episode synopsis: Arya makes progress in her training. Sansa confronts an old friend. Cersei struggles. Jon travels.

New HQ photos below the cut!

The images are mainly of the journey to Hardhome including this one of guest star Birgitte Hjort Sørensen as a wildling chieftainess.

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One odd photo out- Tyrion Lannister before Daenerys Targaryen’s court.GOT508_100914_HS__DSC3249[1]

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Plus, HBO posted this photo on their official website today:

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

239 Comments

  1. Wow this episode seems really Hardhome centered (that’s not a surprise though,given the episode title).
    The wildling girl photo is beautiful.
    It seems like Dany’s going to deliver her “break the wheel” line in front of Tyrion..

  3. Gd75:
    It seems like Dany’s going to deliver her “break the wheel” line in front of Tyrion..

    Good call, I can see Tyrion trying to relate all of the politics of Westeros to Dany quickly and listing off all the houses and then her interrupting him and giving the “break the wheel” monologue.

  9. This episode looks great. Since it took so long to film, I’m expecting great action scenes. Kit always kills his fight scenes and I’m expecting nothing less this episode.

  13. Cathair,

    I actually like that more. With having only Missandei at her side, Dany’s going to make her own decisions and will not be following blindly all of her men advisors’s councils, like she did in the past. That’s finally some real women power here ! 🙂

    (Please excuse me if I make English mistakes, it is not really my native language, I hope you understand…)

  15. Hodor!

    Seems like Hardhome stuff will take a huge chunk of the episode. So excited.

  16. I hope Wilding Chieftainess has a name in the episode. She looks awesome.

    The Tyrion and Daenerys picture is when he is looking back and to his left at Jorah – it’s from the promo. This must be the scene where she decides what to do with J and T. Perhaps send J back to the pits to let the “gods prove his fealty” and take T into her court.

    Edd better NOT die soon. Like EVER.

  19. If Edd dies we riot! Seriously, what is it with this season?! Selmy gone and things really not looking great for Bronn, Stannis, Edd, Theon and Jorah! Why can’t they kill some more characters whom I don’t find interesting/entertaining?! See ya Brienne and Pod! 😛

  21. Hodor’s Bastard,

    *highfive* HB! 😀 I saw it and thought:

    “Val? Is it the fearless outspoken wildling princess/warrior beyond the Wall?” Ummm…

    I noticed they kept a lot of source material so far (with some storylines folding into others granted), but who knows? Maybe they consolidated her character into this lady.

  24. Edd wont die. He will be there FTW – itll be a much more powerful moment with Edd and Ollys betrayal. He mentioned it a couple episodes ago when John planned to save the wildlings.

  25. Tormund’s Woman,

    As far as I know,she is there for just couple of scenes.Maybe they’ll expand her role a bit further.I would gladly see more of widlings leaders on the show from now on.Not just Tormund.

    I think it’s too early for any type of romance for Jon Snow.He just lost Ygritte and it would cheapen their relationship on the show.Given tha fact he’s about to be in not so good situation.Any romance in the future is very unlikely.

  26. Solid post, thanks!

    The northern stuff just looks so much more professional, I got a vibe from the crew that they really bonded together on set.

  27. I hope this’ll be a good fight scene, this season’s fight scenes weren’t the best (except for Jorah kicking ass last episode).

  29. Hoyti Von Totiy: She is not pretty or blonde enough to be Val :-/

    Have you seen photos of the actress? She is stunning and she will clean up well after fighting wights and walkers.

  34. I also think the wildling woman will (hopefully) be similar to Val, although they’ll probably give her a different name, like they did with Talisa. And dammit, I hope Tyrion pulls a Barristan and sticks up for the Starks during her ridiculous wheel speech.

  35. Dany’s ‘court’ now consists of just Missandie?

    If they had to kill a character off, why not Daario? So far he has done nothing but have scenes in bed with Dany

  36. Ross,

    I ran into Ben Crompton the guy who plays Edd last week in Newcastle, such a cool guy btw, he wouldn’t give much away but he didn’t seem positive about thrones.

    I love Edd in the books as well 🙁

  37. Walter Harrow:
    If they had to kill a character off, why not Daario? So far he has done nothing but have scenes in bed with Dany

    You just answered your own question. 😉

  38. I sincerely hope that after her “break the wheel” babble, Tyrion pipes up with “your part of that wheel too idiot”

  40. Gd75,

    Can’t find the Entertainment Weekly article but they’ve apparently seen it and said the Dany-Tyrion scene is one of the season’s best.

  41. Agree with posters above who think the wildling woman will replace Val in the books. Like Talisa she will probably have a different name.

  42. Here’s to the hope that the wildling chieftainess will be a recurring character (and named Val !)

  44. Roose On The Loose:
    I sincerely hope that after her “break the wheel” babble, Tyrion pipes up with “your part of that wheel too idiot”

    I hope they fancy it up a bit. More like, “Your Grace, a broken wheel on a wagon does not work particularly well.”

  46. It’s not going to be Val as she is in book form! She’ll be a mixture of Val and Harma the Dogshead at best but she’ll pretty much be a show character and I doubt she’ll be a major player anyhow.

    Not sure why there’s such a fan base for Val. She’s like the Sand Snakes in that she’s an undeveloped character with a waifer-thin backstory who people like the surface imagery/idea of. All a bit shallow for my liking!

  47. Dark-Stark:
    This episode looks great. Since it took so long to film, I’m expecting great action scenes. Kit always kills his fight scenes and I’m expecting nothing less this episode.

    Me, too. I love watching Kit fight – I don’t know if it’s “realistic” or not (stuntman?), or just the benefit of good editing, but he seems to have a lot of strength, speed and grace as a fighter. Exciting to watch!

  48. Buricon: I hope they fancy it up a bit.More like, “Your Grace, a broken wheel on a wagon does not work particularly well.”

    Agreed. Occasionally Danerys rises to the occasion verbally, even if in a different language (Dracarys scene) but the clip we’ve heard sounds like her high-pompous mode, and I hope Tyrion sticks a big pin in it.

  52. Ravyn:
    Gd75,

    Can’t find the Entertainment Weekly article but they’ve apparently seen it and said the Dany-Tyrion scene is one of the season’s best.

    Here it is:
    http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/24/game-thrones-tyrion-dany-meet

    I am looking forward to their scenes in this episode. Extremely anticipated scene. Especially because after this episode, I suspect they will be doing different things for quite a few episodes. Unsure when in Season 6, they will reunite again.

  53. Gd75,

    I don’t know. In the “break the wheel” speech, she’s wearing an off-white scaley dress rather than this very smooth white dress and dragon necklace that she’d worn to the pits. I mean, we could have a future scene in this episode where she does a wardrobe change, but being Hardhome-heavy, I’m not sure we’ll get there.

  54. Notice how empty the room is with Dany…. Her bad decisions have gotten all of her people killed. Perhaps Tyrion is the only one who can save her from her own madness. The last time a Targ & Lannister teamed up it was a well oiled machine for like 10 to 15 years (Mad King & Tywin).

    Jon Snow is going to make peace with the Wildlings…. And then he is going to make peace eventually with the White Walkers….

  56. The episode synopsis: Arya makes progress in her training. Sansa confronts an old friend. Cersei struggles. Jon travels.

    Synopsis? It seems haiku poetry to me.

    OK, there’s my haiku…
    Ghost gnaws on a bone. Stannis frosts. Ramsay preys on. Brienne gazes fixedly at the tower. LF conspires with her against her. HS teaches them a lesson. Tommen wanks. Daenerys listens to the magic cock. Jorah turns grey.

  57. That wildling-chieftainess seems like a good Val-substitute, alone from looking at her body-language one can tell that she´s proud, tough and fierce. And beautiful, of course.

    So sadly this is what will be the immediate trigger for FTW in the series, won´t it? Heading off to bargain piece with the wildlings and then coming back with one of the most beautiful women Westeros has ever seen surely isn´t something that will keep up the trust in Jon´s chastity.
    Maybe she doesn´t even need to come with him, but just a little malevolent talk in the ranks of the NW that “all you need to sway Jon Snow is a beautiful wildling girl” could be the last straw to break the camel´s back.

    Besides that, it really annoys me how smug Daenerys looks once again, high up on that enormous throne. I remember when she rode alongside EVERYONE of the Dothraki, no matter if warrior or servant, not caring about her status as Khaleesi or “Queen”. I can´t wait to see her return to them, leaving Meereen behind and maybe, just maybe she will even leave behind her incompetence as a leader, otherwise I see no hope for her in Westeros. This all has been dragging on for far too long…

  58. Gd75,

    Your English is great! But if you are looking for woman-power look no further than Queen M./Olenna/ Brienne/ Sansa/Arya/Ygritte/Osha/’Yara’/This upcoming Wildling Chieftaness. Dany is a little too incompetent on her own to live up to them. She has never had to earn anything in her life things have just been given to her and that hardly prepares you to be a great leader.You only develop through struggle and Dany has never truly struggled.

  60. I have no doubt it will be a visually impressive episode, but i surely hope that the writers thought about internal logic of this action subplot more then they did for Yara mission, Craster Keep or Water Garden fight.

  61. The Bastard:
    Notice how empty the room is with Dany…. Her bad decisions have gotten all of her people killed.

    Hmmm…I’m not so sure of this, what am I missing? In the books,

    Barristan is alive and I don’t think there was a Grey Worm, or at least not in constant attendance on her; she still banishes Jorah; there is no “slave advisor”.

    In the show, was she directly responsible for Barristan and Grey Worm’s death? I’m thinking no – Barristan happened upon the fight (still not sure why as Kingsguard he left her side, when in previous episodes he insisted he would always be next to her) and Grey Worm made inexplicable choices as an Unsullied (no shield wall?). Agreed that her slave advisor dying was her fault. But I’m not sure that he was always in the throne room with her. Jorah is banished, not dead. It’s a big room, she never had more than a few attendants at a time. Are there a bunch of other folks who usually attended her in the throne room that are dead because of her?

  63. GaiusB,

    They spend 17 days shooting this sequence.It better be good.

    chameleon,

    According to D&D and some info from stunt guys, Kit is one of the very best in he swordfighting and pretty quick.Weiss mentioned in the special about Battle of CB,how they asked guys that Kit’s is moving way to quick with the sword and to do something about it,because it looked fake.It appears,he’s that quick with this heavy sword.Swordfighting was never the problem,but the acting in the previous seasons was.

    They talked about it here too.
    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2014/03/game-of-thrones-season-4-special-effects

  64. Cayrouse: She has never had to earn anything in her life things have just been given to her and that hardly prepares you to be a great leader.You only develop through struggle and Dany has never truly struggled.

    u wot mate?

    I think “wandered around homeless for her entire life then sold to a barbarian but awesome enough that she thrived anyway but then her entire family died and she led her people through the desert herself” counts as struggling.

  65. Who do u think the old friend Sansa’s going to confront?
    my first thought is LF, but he was in KL last episode, it would be too rushed of a return, and his visit to KL would be completely pointless.
    otherwise, they could just be talking about Theon??

  67. Queenofthrones,

    I think Dany has struggled, but I also think she has a bit too much plot-armor for my liking. None of the Starks–or Lannisters or Greyjoys, for that matter–would have survived three assassin attacks without so much as a scratch. It’s clear she’s being kept alive for her invasion of Westeros later on, but her immunity really doesn’t mesh well with the harsh consequences that all the other characters experience in the series.

  69. Moonlight: I think Dany has struggled, but I also think she has a bit too much plot-armor for my liking.

    She’s had MORE plot armor than Arya Stark? 😀 Whatever, dude! 😉

  70. GaiusB,

    The fact that it didn’t happen in the books doesn’t make it a subplot. Bringing the wildlings to the fold is the culmination of Jon’s plot, its whole point. No, in the books it doesn’t involve him going to Hardhome personally, but it’s essentially the same thing. Jon’s plan with Tormund in the show is an amalgamation of three different missions in ADWD: Jon first sent a Val North of the wall as an envoy to find the wildlings after the battle, who were led by Tormund, as he was not captured during the battle. Later, when Tormund came back and told Jon about the many Free Folk at Hardhome, the Lord Commander sent many of the Night’s Watch ships and men to the ruined settlement to save them. However, wights surrounded the area and they were left stranded, so Jon and Tormund planned to go themselves and save the black brothers and wildlings both —however, this mission was interrupted by events we will surely see in “Mother’s Mercy.” The TV series picked the Hardhome context of the latter two failed missions and ascribed it to the successful first mission to send a wildling envoy North and bring the Free Folk through the Wall.

    I don’t see how the internal logic could fail. Unless you mean the fight choreography or something.

  71. Why does Tormund always look like he has been on a crack binge? Bug eyed and a bit cray cray!!

    Can’t wait for Sunday

  73. sireno:
    Who do u think the old friend Sansa’s going to confront?
    my first thought is LF, but he was in KL last episode, it would be too rushed of a return, and his visit to KL would be completely pointless.
    otherwise, they could just be talking about Theon??

    Whether LF returns to Winterfell or not this season, how can you think his visit to KL was pointless? He gave Olyvar to Cersei to use against the Tyrells and then told Olenna he did it. Then gave Olenna info she could use to plot against Cersei.

    He told Cersei he found Sansa at Winterfell and that Bolton was betraying the crown. In this conversation he also found out Cersei had no way to send an army North. LF now has permission from Cersei to bring the Vale army to the North unopposed by the crown or Bolton.

    He did a lot of shit in KL.

  74. Kay,

    Hahaha okay, Arya definitely is a close second 🙂 But if Dany were to get pushed off of a swaying bridge, chances are some exiled warrior would pull her back to shore, where she would wake up surrounded by a group of Drowned God worshipers who would then pledge their lives in allegiance to her.

  75. Moonlight:
    Kay,

    Hahaha okay, Arya definitely is a close second But if Dany were to get pushed off of a swaying bridge, chances are some exiled warrior would pull her back to shore, where she would wake up surrounded by a group of Drowned God worshipers who would then pledge their lives in allegiance to her.

    We all know GRRM needs Dany for his finale. There is no possibility of her dying until after she invades Westeros. So there is definitely a loss of tension in her storyline when her life appears to be at risk. That aside, Dany has still suffered A LOT.

  78. Luka Nieto,

    Even if you dont call it a subplot, it is still a similar type of scene like those above mentioned examples of invented action scenes that were not done well.

    With the internal logic i ment stuff like the super convenient timing used for Jon´s Craster Keep mission and for the WG fight.

  81. Queenofthrones,

    Admittedly I was a little harsh on her. But she did not care for herself when she was youngest-
    ”No one ever kept me safe when I was little. Well, Ser Willem did”
    Admittedly he must have died around when she was 6-7.
    Then Viserys kept her safe he did his best ( he did sell Rhaelle’s crown to care for them both) his best wasn’t exactly ideal but he kept her safe at least.

    Then you had the likes of Illyrio Mopatis aka the richest man in one of the richest free cities take care of them. Presumably others, as they travelled throughout the nine free cities and I don’t imagine the heirs to the greatest family the world had ever seen ever slept a night on the rough. So Archons, and Triarchs helped raise her.

    Then it was plotgift after plot-gift. Rapist Horseman husband?-actually a kind and caring soul,
    Valuable but essentially useless Stone eggs?- Not to you. for you they’re valuable-not because of something you’ve done but because of who you are.

    Dying in the Red Waste?- Boom Self Sufficient City Of Vaes Tollorro followed by Qarth where she was once again hosted by a powerful city Official because of who she is not what she’s achieved through struggle/hard work. Then Illyrio offers to bloody bail her out again via Groelo!

    Elite-assassin trying to kill you?-Boom here’s Arstan and Strong Belwas two independently legendary fighters.

    No army? no time or skill to train them? no coin to pay for them?- Boom here’s the finest trained army in Essos for free. Yes they are being sold by Merchants but these merchants could not fathom idea that a business partner might want to cheat them. God forbid you encounter any non-moustache twirling villain.

    No Diplomatic skill to convince Daario etc to join your cause?- Boom you’re the most beautiful 14 year old in the world- His little head instead of his big one will do the thinking.

    No food supplies to sustain your 200k plus army of ex-slaves on the move?- No worries we’ll not mention it. Sure Stannis who survived a siege in his youth and thus knows how to manage food supplied struggles to feed 1500 healthy soldiers in the snow but 200k sick and old people in the desert don’t need supplies.

    No experience in ruling cities?- Boom here’s three training cities to practice with, No they won’t fight back until you’re ready.

    No fleet to sail to Westeros on? Is that Victarion I hear coming?

    TL;DR= Dany has only ever obtained things due to rhings she has no control over/ has not earned eg beauty, family blood, gifts, plot armour. The last time I really felt she really earned anything for herself was returning life to Vaes Tolorro.

    All I was saying to Gd is that there are so many better female characters to appreciate in the story and they’re struggles is what makes their character all the more remarkable I’m looking mainly at Brienne, Sansa and Yara here.

  82. Geralt of Rivia,
    Oh, come on, Jon got assassinated by his own men after serving as Lord Commander for less than a year. And remember, I did agree with the other posters that Dany has suffered and lost a lot–she just has a hell of a lot more luck.

  83. Kit always rocks his fight scenes, and this one looks like it’s going to be a big one, I hope it pays off!
    Beyond hyped for Dany/Tyrion! It’s like all my ADWD dreams have come true 😉

  84. Gabriele:
    They don’t make sam give Jon obsidian daggers if he won’t be using them

    Oh damnit no! I was looking forward to confirmation that

    Valyrian Steel is also anathema to White Walkers. He better not use that stupid dagger to get out of a scrap with them.

    jentario:
    I hope this’ll be a good fight scene, this season’s fight scenes weren’t the best (except for Jorah kicking ass last episode).

    What? That wasn’t very good. The best fight scene of the season was by far Barristan’s last stand! (and the worst were the Sand Snakes in episode 6)

    Walter Harrow:
    Dany’s ‘court’ now consists of just Missandie?

    If they had to kill a character off, why not Daario? So far he has done nothing but have scenes in bed with Dany

    i’d say Daario is out since he’s supposed to be her betrayal for gold, he can’t die yet. He has a meeting with Drogon scheduled. Rather soon I hope.

    Ravyn:
    Gd75,

    Can’t find the Entertainment Weekly article but they’ve apparently seen it and said the Dany-Tyrion scene is one of the season’s best.

    The way they met was kind of ridiculous, so I hope this delivers. I think this scene will be so awesome in the books, so they’ll have a lot to live up to.

    Hoyti Von Totiy: That chick from the Vikings show is Val, and this one could´t hold a candle to her.

    She’s actually a pretty great actress you know. I agree that Katthryn Winnick would have done a terrific job and she indeed looks exactly like I would expect Val to look, but this actress will do a great job. She was my favourite part of Borgen, a series I can highly recommend.

  86. Complaining about plot armour for Daenerys is ridiculous. She’s one of the main characters in this series (novels and show) and all those of similar status to her have gotten their fair share plot armour. That’s one of the benefits of being a protagonist you know. I guess Daenerys’s plot armour just gets noticed more because of the shitty worldbuilding around her.

  89. Moonlight,

    Would you mind If I add your bridge quote to my sig on the westeros.org forum? I found it hilariously accurate (I’d give you credit for it of course).

  90. Moonlight:
    Veltigar,

    Well, Ned was a main character himself at one point But yes, you do raise a fair point.

    Ned was a mainish character certainly 😉 However, when I’m talking protagonists I’m thinking the Stark children with a PoV, Tyrion and Dany. And if we were to make a hierarchy in that category, I’d say that Jon, Dany and Tyrion form the big three and are just above the remaining Stark Children. I’d eat my hat if anyone of the big three

    permanently dies before the final climax of the series

  91. Veltigar: Oh damnit no! I was looking forward to confirmation that

    i’d say Daario is out since he’s supposed to be her betrayal for gold, he can’t die yet. He has a meeting with Drogon scheduled. Rather soon I hope.

    I want to see Longclaw in action vs WW.That would be great,but maybe we’ll have to settle for daggers.

    About Daario.No he’ll live long enough or at least that’s my wish.Since Jon/Dany pairing looks more and more likely with each day.I want to see his face, when he’ll lose her.I’m not a biggest fan of Jon/Dany together,but i’m not entirely against it.Not a log ago i’d say no way,but since I’ve read some interesting pieces on this.It could be.If George/D&D will do this justice and it’s believable.I’m up for a ride.

  92. The Bastard,

    To be fair , it was Tywin running the kingdom and stopping Aegon’s batshit decisions from tearing it apart! Aegon resented Tywin because he was so efficient,he desired his wife and played games with his chlidren’s futures. But as we know, a Lannister always pays his debts. A good team they most certainly were not!

  94. Geralt of Rivia: I want to see Longclaw in action vs WW.That would be great,but maybe we’ll have to settle for daggers.

    I really hope he pulls out the dagger and loses it and then does some desperate jab with Longclaw and kills a Walker. This is one of the harmless little things from the books I really want to know, so I hope we’ll get proof that Valyrian Steel is effective against the Walkers. I think it would make for a great scene to, people think Jon’s going to die and then nope, his Valyrian Steel sword saves the lucky bastard.

    Geralt of Rivia: I want to see Longclaw in action vs WW.That would be great,but maybe we’ll have to settle for daggers.

    About Daario.No he’ll live long enough or at least that’s my wish.Since Jon/Dany pairing looks more and more likely with each day.I want to see his face, when he’ll lose her.I’m not a biggest fan of Jon/Dany together,but i’m not entirely against it.If it makes sense and George/D&D will this justice.I’m up for a ride.

    I’m a big Jon and Dany shipper and the show has really squashed any doubt I ever had about them eventually becoming significant to one another. The show just keeps on juxtapositioning them (like with the listen-only-to-yourself scene in episode 5), they are bound to hook up.

    Daario will be long dead by then though, if his fate resembles that of his character in the novels. There he’s obviously being set up to be her betrayal for gold, but they might do things differently here on the show. However, even then I think he’s a dead man. If he isn’t sharing Dany’s bed, he doesn’t really have much purpose. He doesn’t add anything and he’s hardly a fan favourite (probably closer to the opposite actually).

  95. So storylines confirmed:

    Arya in Braavos
    Inside Winterfell
    The Wall
    King’s Landing: Cersei
    Hardhome
    Meereen

    That leaves out BriPod, Team Stannis, Dorne and possibly the Tyrells and Littlefinger in KL

  96. Here are my predictions for the Winterfell arch for the last few episodes:
    – Ramsay is gonna get a little knife happy with Fat Walda=No mas heir.
    – Rooses reaction could vary. If it was the book-Roose he would be like “Tut tut, Ramsay” or shrug dismissively. Either way I don’t think he gets too mad or at least doesn’t retaliate, since Ramsay’s the only heir again.
    – Sansa is going to attack Ramsay nearer the finale and fumble, or possibly just injure him seriously but not fatally (please be the groin!), then Reek grows a pair and finishes the job. It would be a bit of a departure from where people theorize the books are going, but it will be a fitting end and show how Sansa has grown from the first season (i.e. not pushing Joffrey off the edge) and it will redeem Reek.
    -They escape and get captured by Stannis and then it sets up the Roose versus Stannis battle for next season.

    P.S. now that I’ve thought it over it could also be Myranda that Reek kills–if they want to keep Ramsay around as a looming threat for another season. I still hope he at least gets stabbed by the corkscrew by Sansa; maybe in the eye a la The Governor from The Walking Dead–though getting him in the groin would be a more fitting punishment.

    p.p.s. I’m also not sure how Brienne will fit into the scheme of things…maybe they will rescue them then get captured by Stannis. And Brienne and Stannis meet face to face- dun dUN DUN! Or they simply distract Roose and soldiers by attacking the castle while Sansa and Reek take advantage of time to attack Ramsay and Myranda and escape, then walk away semi-successful? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  97. Mormont:
    So storylines confirmed:

    Arya in Braavos
    Inside Winterfell
    The Wall
    King’s Landing: Cersei
    Hardhome
    Meereen

    That leaves out BriPod, Team Stannis, Dorne and possibly the Tyrells and Littlefinger in KL

    I don’t think the Tyrells are going to sit this one out.

  98. Birgitte Hjort Sørensen retweeted this. Apparently the name of her character is Karsi, but I can’t find any other info regarding this. Must be some accuracy for her to retweet though.

  101. Sansa pregnant by Ramsay? Ewww, but she did say he’s there every night, and she’s young and supposedly fertile. The thought brings to mind the scene right after she “flowered.” Cersei talks about how Sansa will love her first-born, even if she doesn’t love the husband. I think my memory is good on that recall, I know my fellow posters will correct me if I’m off. That’s part of this territory, and it’s ok.

    But Ramsay offing or otherwise messing with Walda? It’s a possibility. He’s been prodded pretty hard with the facts of a pending trueborn heir, and he is crazy. Remember, though, she’s a Frey with any number of male relatives more than willing to kill stuff. Here’s a thought: Ramsay messes with Walda, and her relatives come and kill him. Roose is somehow spared, but now has no heirs and no wife and the silver he got for marrying Walda has to be used to fight the wars that he instigated, so he is wiped out. This is pure speculation, I have no idea, but it’s satisfying to think about. No?

  103. deekan,

    Don’t think that’s going to happen. Ramsay gets sent out to attack Stannis. Who knows if he will return or not

  104. TheTouchOfFrost:
    If Edd dies we riot! Seriously, what is it with this season?! Selmy gone and things really not looking great for Bronn, Stannis, Edd, Theon and Jorah! Why can’t they kill some more characters whom I don’t find interesting/entertaining?! See ya Brienne and Pod!

    I am still pissed about Selmy but for a show that loves to shock, the deaths have been light when it comes to recurring cast members. It sucked enough losing Pyp and Grenn last year, please not Edd!!!!
    I am all for Brienne and/or Pod getting a shocking death sequence. I like both characters but their arc has been dull as shit all season and the writers have gone off the rails with their plot line. It would be cool if the filler was interesting but the multiple oaths/save Arya/now save Sansa/avenge Renly stuff if losing steam.
    Ready for Dorne to provide a death that has impact, too. Bronn is a goner. Love him too but his watch has certainly ended (and the Dorne subplot can’t end soon enough).

  105. Carne:
    Birgitte Hjort Sørensen retweeted this. Apparently the name of her character is Karsi, but I can’t find any other info regarding this. Must be some accuracy for her to retweet though.

    I think the chances are quite high that, even though she’ll only get a small part this year, she comes back for season 6 as one of the main Free Folk voices, especially if Tormund bites it at Hardhome (which I hope not ! I hope both he and Edd make it out but unlikely !)

  106. Arkash,

    Tormund comes back.

    Sue confirmed it weeks ago thanks to inside sources. Still, I hope we see more of this “Karsi.”

  107. Cayrouse,

    Dany was emotionally abused by Viserys, Drogo did rape her (both in the books and in the show) she lost him and was left in a dangerous situation, her child died partly due to her own mistake and betrayal, she would not have her dragons hatch if she had not performed magic with burning the maegi and stepping to the fire and she figured this on her own. She and her people nearly died in the Red Waste, in the show Doreah and Xaro betrayed her and Rahardo and Irri died, her dragons were nearly stolen and she imprisoned. She got Barristan who stopped and assassination attempt (and now has died in the show), she figured how to free the slaves on her own but she has been struggling with the consequences own her actions since then and losing control of her dragons and finding out she had been betrayed by her best friend and most trusted advisor since the beginning.

    How is that not suffering? Because she got dragons and army and her journey has not been a complete downward spiral like some people in the show has experienced?

  109. Ravyn: Ravyn says:
    May 28, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    Geralt of Rivia,

    And yet he needed a double to jump naked into a hot tub with Rose Leslie. Go figure… (Yes, I know he was allegedly “hurt” that day)

    He had a bout of the dreaded Small Penisitis i think.

  110. Gd75:
    Wow this episode seems really Hardhome centered (that’s not a surprise though,given the episode title).
    The wildling girl photo is beautiful.
    It seems like Dany’s going to deliver her “break the wheel” line in front of Tyrion..

    I thought so too but if you compare to the trailer, she’s wearing a different dress. The necklace is different. Doesn’t mean, of course, that the speech isn’t in this episode. I just don’t think it will be at this particular point.

  111. I’m ridiculously psyched for Hardhome. As someone else said, I love a good Jon Snow road trip.

  112. Hodor’s Bastard,

    Yep, typing error! Darn those Targs and they’re repetatively similar names!

    Kells,

    Selmy at least had a relatively grand ending (although arguably the greatest knight Westeros ever saw being killed by some ratbags with knives is a little insulting and not the epic ending his life should have had..hopefully the books will give him a suitable send off ) which he desrved after they’ve really not given his character the respect it deserves.
    Edd is one of my favourite minor character as his constant moaning is a nice distraction from the bleakness of the wall. Be a shame if he goes too. It’s a shame Bronn (one of the real succcess stories of the show) is oging to die in the weakest part the show has ever put out. F*cking Dorne! I guess the Brienne death will depend on whether they do her Jaime/SH arc or a version of it. She’s been awful since she stopped interacting with Jaime and just been shoe horned into other characters stories. I say let show Brienne die. She’s not a patch on book Brienne.

  113. Geralt of Rivia,

    Way too quick? Fake? Gah… This heavy sword bullshit needs to stop. Your average longsword weighed about 3 lbs or less, which wouldn’t be hard to maneuver at all especially since they were balanced.

  116. deekan,

    Instead of Ramsay, why not Sansa? After all, she is there to execute the Boltons: and the fetus gestating under the flab (or being gestated under the flab: I’ve never been certan of that verb’s direction!) is a threat to House Stark.

    Moreover, Ramsay would not find that boring.

  117. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Um, those “ratbags” are Meereneese nobility. The fact that they acquit themselves so well against Second Sons and Unsullied suggests that they are quite skilled in combat. Besides, isnt Barristan just a brutish barbarian to most of the elite of Essos?

  121. Wimsey,

    Her family i mean not her specifically, but your right she wouldn’t remember Storms End at all i imagine.

  122. Roose On The Loose,

    Sure, her family: but what does that have to do with her? Here is an apt analogy: I am an atheist whereas my parents, grandparents, etc., were all Christians. Does that mean I am still somehow accountable for what Christians do, or that I am hypocritical for supporting gay rights, womens rights, thinking over believing, etc.?

    (That is rhetorical, by the way!)

    Here is one of the most impressive aspects of Daeny’s character: whereas most of the people in her world think that it is dishonorable/immoral to be anything other than a blind supporter of his/her house, Daeny does not seem to think that. Oh, sure: she is in some denial about her brother and father; but ultimately, she accepts that they were messed up people. Progress can only happen when people are willing to say to themselves: my parents were wrong, and the world is bigger than my family. Otherwise, you basically deliberately commit the same “mistakes” generation after generation.

  123. I hope to hell, the White Walkers show up. Getting pretty bored with Wildling battles.

    Also, I really hope Edd makes it. The character has really grown on me.

    I think it would be cool if Jon and Tormund become pals. They have great chemistry in all their scenes. Hell, I think it would work if they became ‘more than pals’, but that won’t happen.

  124. Wimsey,

    Didn’t mean to imply shes responsible for the past indiscretions of her family at all apologies if that’s how it seemed. Just meant that for better or worse that the targs are part of the Westeros “wheel”, and if she destroys it as she seems intent on doing then i cant imagine things working out, i just think that the noble families are just one of the wheels on the Westeros wagon and if you destroy one it’s going to falter and fail against the winter that is coming, i just hope she realises it and helps to grease the wheel and get it running smoothly rather that breaking it completely, i hope that makes sense haha.

  125. Uknow.0: Jorah turns grey.

    I’m starting to like Grey Jorah, but he’s probably just strongest in khaleesi’s presence.

  128. I think the show misses a lot of opportunities to at least give “nods” to cut characters. What difference would it make if this wildling character was blonde (all the pics of the actress on google show her blonde) and named Val? For the show, none. But for the fans it would be a great little nod (even if she does not appear that much, wich she probably won’t). Name one of the big pit fighters Strong Belwas. Mention the fat Lord Manderly, or his hunger for pies. Mention that Doran’s older daugther died some years ago. There are so many characters from the books that were “cut” only to be replaced by show-characters that basically have the same function. There are characters that books readers, for one reason or another, have come to like, and it wouldn’t kill them to give such nods to these characters. I think those are missed opportunities.
    Overall, I’m pretty excited for next episode (and the last 2 aswell). It seems it was yesterday we were counting the days until episode 1. Time flies.
    (I feel like something in my comment is gramatically incorrect/ sounds wrong, but I can’t put my finger on it. I apologize for any mistakes.)

  129. Buricon,

    I think it would b cool if that’s related to her impending nuptials. He tried to talk her out of marrying a merenese master in favor of a western alliance.

    Can’t wait to see what Tyrion makes of her!

  130. Random question. Obviously I was way off on my predictions regarding the winterfell worker who was reportedly cast. My question is, has anyone spotted this MW lookalike in the background of an episode this season or are we expecting her to still show up? And if she does still show up are we expecting it to be as a nothing role or perhaps

    an equivalent of sorts to the spearwives Mance brought with him in the books?

  134. chameleon,

    They said they didn’t have to speed up his entrance in the fighting at the wall last season. I’m going with energetic.

  135. Roose On The Loose:
    I sincerely hope that after her “break the wheel” babble, Tyrion pipes up with “your part of that wheel too idiot”

    Moonlight:
    I also think the wildling woman will (hopefully) be similar to Val, although they’ll probably give her a different name, like they did with Talisa. And dammit, I hope Tyrion pulls a Barristan and sticks up for the Starks during her ridiculous wheel speech.

    Yaaasss, Gods! I hope he reads her hard. If Jon Snow knows nothing, then the sum of Danaerys’s knowledge is in the negative numbers.

  136. Cayrouse,

    So winning over Khal Drogo and the Dolthraki? Khal Drogos death and losing the Kalasar? Making it thru the red waste? Qarth? Everything until she conquered Mereen? Dany never struggled and had everything handed to her?

  137. Ravyn,

    Broken ankle is more than being “hurt”.It hurts like hell(I know that).Thanks to his own stupidity according to Kit himself.He’s is doing all the swordfighting and almost all of his stunts.Whatever.

  139. Demonmonkey,

    Yes, because she’s a GIRL!!!!!

    Seiously, the rank hypocrisy people display when judging Daeny is astounding. She is “self-entitled” because she thinks she should be Queen: despite the fact that the only basis for rule that her world knows is inheritance. Her displays of empathy and concern are just contrivances of GRRM and B&W, not legitimate character development. She’s a hypocrite for wanting to change the system because of what her ancestors did: when every person that ever has worked to improve the world has undone the traditions of his/her ancestors.

    People need to “clue up”: Daeny is (along with Jon) the most important character in this series. She drives each story to a greater degree than everyone save Jon. And in the end, it is going to be her choices, stemming from everything in the prior 6+ seasons/books that clinches the stories and the plots.

  140. All the northern stuff this season has been really strong.

    Jon, Stannis, Sansa and all the characters around them have been amazing so this weeks episode is going to be really good.

    As someone already stated, Kit really owns his action scenes so Jon’s fight scenes will be extra good because the choreographers know they can throw anything at Kit and he will be able to pull it off.

    Also hope to see Arya, been loving her stuff this season.

    All the Stark kids storylines have been strong.

    Dorne was finally good last week, I even liked that caged scene where Bronn was teased while almost being killed at the sametime.

    Everything is starting to come together, these next 3 episode should be very good!

  145. jentario,

    I dunno, Brienne vs. Vale soldiers, and Jaime vs that one Dornish soldier were both pretty darn good. Sand Sankes vs Jaime and Bronn is the only stinker that I can think of…

  147. I really hope Jon discovers his warging powers by the end of this season! And maybe Arya. This show needs more wargs.

  148. Mormont:
    So storylines confirmed:

    Arya in Braavos
    Inside Winterfell
    The Wall
    King’s Landing: Cersei
    Hardhome
    Meereen

    That leaves out BriPod, Team Stannis, Dorne and possibly the Tyrells and Littlefinger in KL

    Brienne and Pod may be tucked in with the Winterfell stuff, but I am guessing any serious action will happen in 9 or 10 rather than have lots of action at Hardhome and a huge battle, and then a lot of action somewhere else as well.

    I hope Brienne and Pod run into Team Stannis at some point! Surprised they’re not all tripping on each other outside Winterfell 😉

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t see Dorne (or very little) in Hardhome- they have a lot of ground to cover and we know Dorne will be featured in Ep 9 (the Canal+ summer footage from Seville included a shot of the clapperboard with 5 09 written on it). We saw a bit last week and there is a big conversation coming between Doran and Jaime, (Alexander Siddig mentioned this in a recent interview- said it was his favorite scene) so I’m guessing we can wait until Ep 9 to see that.

    I wish we had more Doran screentime- I don’t feel like he’s had time to develop at all (too much time in Dorne has been on crappy fight scenes, not enough politics) but maybe that will be remedied in Ep 9. Still holding out hope we get some version of Vengeance, Justice, Fire and Blood before the season is over!

  149. For those complaining that Selmy’s death wasn’t valiant enough and didn’t do him justice, isn’t that the whole point of it and in keeping with Martin’s ‘deconstruction’ of fantasy tropes (the loyal and skillfull knight going down in one last epic battle).

  150. I actually hope we get to see

    the throne rome and the iron throne

    at least once this season. It feels actually weird that it hasn’t appeared yet.

  151. Ok but oysters? Mother Mole is a character but no ones heard of Mother Mussels.

  152. RandomSand,

    Except fans will take the nods as foreshadowing (imagine if they mentioned Manderly!) or they will criticize the show for adapting a character poorly (if they named Karsi, the wildling chieftainess, Val; yet maybe her role and character is completely different, so book fans will not like it one bit.)

    There are some harmless nods, to be sure. And they do them often. I would not be surprised to have a Strong Belwas lookalike during the Great Games in Daznak’s Pit, for example. Maybe the fat guy who freed Tyrion with his Arakh was supposed to be a nod to him, too, even if he wasn’t bald.

    Of the Night,

    Probably she already showed up. We didn’t even know if she was a featured extra with lines or not. Probably not. She may have been in the background of the heavily stormed-in Winterfell scenes, so good luck finding her.

  153. Wimsey: Yes, because she’s a GIRL!!!!!

    Seiously, the rank hypocrisy people display when judging Daeny is astounding. She is “self-entitled” because she thinks she should be Queen: despite the fact that the only basis for rule that her world knows is inheritance. Her displays of empathy and concern are just contrivances of GRRM and B&W, not legitimate character development. She’s a hypocrite for wanting to change the system because of what her ancestors did: when every person that ever has worked to improve the world has undone the traditions of his/her ancestors.

    People need to “clue up”: Daeny is (along with Jon) the most important character in this series. She drives each story to a greater degree than everyone save Jon. And in the end, it is going to be her choices, stemming from everything in the prior 6+ seasons/books that clinches the stories and the plots.

    I am constantly pissed that people don’t get that. The fact that Stannis wants the throne because it is him by right he is “honorable” —with Dany, that’s “self-entitlement.” Come on. You may argue she’s flying a bit too close to the crazy-sun, becoming a bit too much like his father, and that’s precisely what we’re supposed to be worried about —But she’s still a true liberator, the only person in contention for the throne who has literally set it aside —for now— because of her empathy and sympathy towards the downtrodden.

    And honestly, I’d rather be an average farmer in this world than being Daenerys Targaryen. It is ridiculous to say her life has gone swimmingly. She was abused by his brother all her childhood, while they were both humiliated because of their homelessness and having to beg for favor, always moving because they were literally being hunted by assassins. Then his psychotic brother sold her as a sex slave to a barbarian, claiming he would let the Khal’s whole army fuck her and their horses too if it would mean getting back the Iron Throne of Westeros —a Throne and country she knew or cared little about. Then she was raped, repeatedly (yes, in the book too), and she had to literally learn to tame Drogo to her will. Daenerys wasn’t just a woman in probably the most misogynistic culture of Planetos but also essentially a slave, yet she found strength and power in her position to the point that she demanded the same loyalty as Khaleesi that Khal Drogo commanded —something that didn’t make sense for the Dothraki, as a Khaleesi for them is just the Khal’s wife and nothing else. Then she lost Drogo, was betrayed, gave birth to dragons and had to cross the Red Waste with twenty/a hundred (show/books) souls in her care, only to have to beg to rich people again and be betrayed again. If you really think that her life has been easy, or that her campaign in Slaver’s Bay is a cynical power-grab instead of an emphatic emancipation of slaves, you haven’t been paying attention.

  154. Since I am not that familiar with the later books, I think Karsi looks like an awesome addition as a wildling chieftainess. Let’s hope she’s in more than one or two eps. I love her shell neck/chest decoration. Mussels make sense to me since Hardhome is meant to be a coastal settlement in the show.

    I hate having to wait to see what happens with Brienne and Pod (I personally love them both), but I agree that it’s more likely they have scenes in either 9 or 10, since there are so many other storylines to service in 8.

    I think Kit Harrington has shown some superb swordplay/stunt skills in his previous fight scenes, so I am expecting a good showing in Hardhome.

  156. Hodor Targaryen,

    I’m pretty sure the reason the Dorne fight wasn’t that good was because they had to rush it, as they only had one week to film all the Dorne scenes in that area.

  157. Wimsey,

    Good lord, can you ever just accept a bit of hyperbole?! But if we must go into this…they are faceless men behind masks so they may be nobility or they may be hired goons. Either way I doubt that they’d be much more than a rabble as Slavers Bays only trained fighters are/were Unsullied (for apparently the most capable soliders they’re tactics and choice of weapon for close quarter fighting is questionable) and those from the pits (who are hardly a disciplined fighting unit). Obviously it’s not going to be the Unsullied so must be pit fighters which would make more sense. Seriously doubt the nobility would get their hands dirty in that way. Again, it’s my opinion but I think with his place in the ASoIaF universe he deserved a more meaningful death than some backstreet scuffle that hasn’t really motivated Dany to do anything as she continues to flit between ruling styles on a whim. Obviously show Selmy wasn’t as fleshed out as book Selmy so hopefully he’ll get a more suitable ending in them.

    Luka Nieto,

    People are allowed to like and dislike whomever they want. Personally, I liked Dany but think she has developed into a slightly sanctimonious hypocrite as the story has progressed. Her occupation of Slavers Bay, although obviously good intentioned has shown she can be arrogant too as she has completely misjudged the culture there. She’s forced liberation on the people and although we as a viewing public with our morals can’t understand why people would reject it you only need to look to the Middle East to see the problems that can arise.
    I don’t think the majority of people were claiming she hasn’t suffered a lot of hardships (although compared to the common Westerosi/Essosi(?!) she’s done pretty well!) but more that she has “plot armour” in that nothing too serious will happen to her as she’s too tied up to the eventual outcome of the show.

  158. Charles M,

    I dunno. The Bronn/Jaime fight with the Dornish patrol was pretty good for a short exchange. Don’t want to point the finger at the SS again but…

    Not sure why they gave Jessica Henwick the whip when she’s had previous Wushu training…in fact I’d have been happy if they cut the whip altogether as unless they’ve had extensive training it’s incredibly limited in fight sequences.

  159. TheTouchOfFrost,

    As I mentioned before I believe Selmy’s death in keeping with the books themes by avoiding a cliche fantasy ending (valiant, skillful knight dying in one last epic stand). I would hope the books don’t give him such a cliched ending (knowing Martin he won’t). I do have to agree with you that he should have had a few more scenes, especially since the actor did such a fine job.

  160. Plot armor should be one of the worst terms used in this fandom ..i dont see many other series complaining about it ..

    ofcourse the main characters will have to survive to the end of story …without them there will be no story ..so in order for them to survive they will have some gifts and armor ..

    everyone who has survived the five books has plot armor ..i dont see people complaining about everyone …

  161. dragonbringer,

    The term “plot armor” has been thrown around so much that it’s become meaningless. Unless a character surviving breaks your willing suspension of disbelief, it’s not “plot armor.”

    Some people here think backwards about this supposed issue. The reason a protagonist survives dangerous situations is usually not “plot armor” —Instead, the fact that the character survives is the reason they are the protagonists, the ones whose story is worth following. In a ensemble story such as ASOIAF/GOT that’s a bit more muddled, but it’s still worth considering.

  162. Luka Nieto,

    completely agreed

    just google the term plot armor ..

    the search results is showing Westeros.org in the second place after urbandictionary.com

    which goes to show how this fandom is

    Game of thrones and Asoiaf is a series where anyone can die is just a myth ..just look at the main characters from AGOT and all the POv’s survive except Ned …and he was always meant to die(anyone read the GRRM letter to his editor) to further the plot

  163. Birgitte was very good in the Danish Borgen series. I expect her to appear in several episodes. She could very well play a Vale-inspired character, but one with more action sequences. As regards the part where

    she’s Mance’s wife and mother of his child,

    I don’t expect it to come into play. If so, it would come out of nowhere considering that it was not hinted at before. The Wildlings are in need of a couple of women-fighters !

  164. Koempel,

    There’s not having a cliched ending and then having a pointless ending! I don’t think his death was used in the most efficient way as a story-telling tool.

  165. Belacel,

    she looks like she will be young enough to play Mance’s daughter

    i think she will be sister to the one of the chiefs we see in the promo ..he clearly states that he has a sister who will spit on him if he break the bread with a crow

  166. TheTouchOfFrost,

    It led to Daenerys’ approach in Meereen doing a complete 180.

    But I know I won’t convince you. GRRM has been much more ruthless with many of his secondary characters, killing them with no particular consequence to anyone’s story.

  167. Charles M,

    Yeah, there are a lot of practical problems involved in shooting that. Jaime and Bronn in similar outfits, the whip in general…still, even if that’s the best fight scene they could have done in the limited time they had doesn’t mean it was good. I’m not into personal attacks or blaming people for bad scenes or coming up with ways I, in all my wisdom, could have improved on the show if only I was a writer/director/fight choreographer. So to me I’m not as interested in whether Podwesa messed up or did the avsolute best he could in less than ideal conditions…the scene just wasn’t good, perhaps for understandable reasons.

  168. Luka Nieto,

    After he died her first action was to feed a master to her dragons! Then she decided to marry one of them. Her behaviour has been decidedly erratic so it looks like his death had no significant impact on her at all, at least from a motivational standpoint.
    Selmy may be a secondary character but he was/is a PoV character so more important than, for example, Grey Worm, Bronn, Gilly,etc and of those who have died Grenn, Pyp, Mance, etc.

  169. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Okay then. It had no impact at all. Let’s ignore… well, exactly what you said happened after his death. But no, that didn’t have anything to do with Barristan dying? Wherever did I get that idea?

  172. Koempel:
    TheTouchOfFrost,

    As I mentioned before I believe Selmy’s death in keeping with the books themes by avoiding a cliche fantasy ending (valiant, skillful knight dying in one last epic stand). I would hope the books don’t give him such a cliched ending (knowing Martin he won’t). I do have to agree with you that he should have had a few more scenes, especially since the actor did such a fine job.

    I don’t care how Selmy died specifically. He could have choked on poison locusts for all I care, if he had previously been shown cutting through five kingsguards like cake. Being taken down by a bunch of red shirts in his only fight, for no other end other than to have Dany behave a bit more erratically the next show? No thanks. That’s just lame. Book Selmy has already proven his worth on the battlefield (particularly his released TWOW chapters) and can die any way GRRM wishes.

  173. TheTouchOfFrost,

    You are right for a 70 year old granpa to kill 14 armed and younger fighters was very, very implausible and not doing service to his character.

    Dany’s reaction after his death was a modicum better depiction of what a young woman who has developed an granpa-grandaughter relationship with Selmy would do after his murder in an ambush. And that is revenge. The same thing that Robb did, Arya wants to do, Jaime explicitly wish to do to his own brother after he killed their father etc, etc. Revenge is the first thing that comes to mind. And that is what she does. She takes the masters down to the dragon dungeons and show ala Cersei what power means. You might not like it but it is very fitting. You killed my best friend and a great man, almost like a relative to me, you will see what my dragons can do to you. Unless you would prefer Dany inviting the masters to her tea chamber wearing eyeglasses, eating cookies and talking about Jane Austen with them.

  174. Chad Brick,

    Will you think the same if it turns out, as some speculate, that he’s basically a doofus led by the nose the whole way to do the Shavepate’s dirty work? And then to top it all off, he dies unceremoniously?

    Not saying that’ll happen as I’m also Barry’s fan, but I’d almost pay to see that ending. 😉

  175. dothrakian raven,

    Thank you!

    Mr Fixit,

    That’s likely. There is no doubt Barristan was fooled by the Shavepate, unknowingly helping him arrange an illegitimate coup d’état. And there’s no way Selmy is getting alive out of Meereen. Not only that, but I’d be very surprised if his killers are not from his side of the Battle of Fire —namely, the pit fighters. But sure, it’s the show doing a disservice to his character.

  176. tyjon:
    Iwan has given an unintentional season 5 spoiler…basically he lives at least until season 6. Iwan interview UK Express

    Oona Chaplin was interviewed just before the Red Wedding episode aired and asked if “Talisa’s relationship with Robb would be an important part of the story next season” and she answered yes.

  177. Chad Brick: Book Selmy has already proven his worth on the battlefield (particularly his released TWOW chapters) and can die any way GRRM wishes.

    Who knows…? After “Sound the attack!”, Selmy could be hit by a random trebuchet-flung rotting corpse, fall off Silver and break his neck. Another potential unfitting end for Selmy. Imho, any scenario in which he doesn’t return to Westeros to attempt a Targ re-ascendancy is a pity, but I think the show has foreshadowed/spoiled his destiny. He’ll never make it back.

  179. Luka Nieto,

    Her behaviour was erratic before he died and continues to be now he’s died so no it didn’t have any impact on it.

    Chad Brick,

    I guess we should be thankful for gettign him at all as they’ve not really done his full character justice. At least it was a cool looking scene even if it didn’t make much sense in the grand scheme of things.

    dothrakian raven,

    Right before , his Queen , who survived being burnt alive, fed a slavemaster to a dragon? I think a 70 year old guy who knows how to handle a sword is a little more “plausible” than that, eh?
    Despite that that said grandfather figure advised her repeatedly for mercy? So instead she kills a random guy who may or may not have been innocent? I have no issue with and quite enjoy them showing Dany as being conflicted and teetering between the good and bad sides of Targaryeness but they tend to whitewash her and the things she does that if another character (like her father or Stannis for example) did would be painted in a more negative light are left to be far too ambiguous. Before we get the usual “it’s because she’s a girl” thing, Jon Snow and Tyrion suffer from the same thing. I get that they are the main characters and we’re meant to root for them but making their darker sides paler detracts from their development and the moral choices that they have to make.

  180. dragonbringer: ..just look at the main characters from AGOT and all the POv’s survive except Ned …

    Catelyn didn’t survive either… at least, not as Cat. Certainly, she didn’t survive as a POV.

  181. TheTouchOfFrost,

    are you kidding me how can people still call dany being whitewashed compared to jon and tyrion is beyond me

    Dany is the one who constantly fears about her being mad because of his father and brother were … she wants to show them Mercy and she wants both masters and freed men to live happily togerther while barristan wants her to leave for westeros …

    in the show what exactly she must do …she listened to Barristan and showed mercy …executed one of her own people and made people dislike her for showing mercy to a killer …but look at what happened barristan was killed by the same peoples who dany showed mercy …
    how canm she still show mercy to them …she want to send them a statement and she did
    and speaking of books can you show one line where Barristan advices to show Mercy in ADwd ….and not to mention the dragon feeding is not even in the books

  182. dragonbringer:
    Luka Nieto,

    he certainly was fooled by shavepate ,..

    but i believe he will be killed by Victarian

    Getting killed by a group of pit fighters? Fine. Vic? Fine. A dragon controlled by Vic? Better yet. Getting killed by red shirts? No no no no. I don’t care how many.

    And yes, the shavepate is the Littlefinger of Meereen.

  183. Regarding Jaime’s plot,

    Do you think the season will end with him refusing Cersei’s letter to come back and help her? That was definitely one of my favorite moments in the books.

  184. Simeon,

    like i said they were always meant to die and further the plot if you have read that letter from GRRM ..

    How come majority of people dont think jon is dead when he was stabbed because people know if he died now then everything up until now is waste of time and do not further the plot ..so he stays in some form

  185. That special close-up portrait of Edd …

    Either puts the big red mental X over his survival
    or
    Indicates he’s the first one to stab

  187. Chad Brick,

    well since the shopw has not had anyone other than Sons of the enemy i dont think they had any other options ..and i do believe his killing will make the show watchers fear more about dany when she is sorrounded by sons of the harpy

    i believe he will die protecting hizdar who is awaiting a trial and vic would want to kill him but barristan wont have it ..and hence a trial by combat

    KG,

    spoilers are not working for some reason

    i dont know what is spoiler and what is not spoiler anymore

  188. Chad Brick,

    “Redshirts” = Those who represent the crux of Dany’s conflict this season. Okay… Yeah, that makes complete sense! I fail to see how some random pit fighters killing Barristan because he was too blind to see what was happening would be more dignified than being killed defending the Commander of the Unsullied and Daenerys’ reign in general against the Sons of the Harpy. And considering how crowded and complex the Battle of Fire is panning out to be in the books, I don’t imagine the consequences of Barristan’s death will be as palpable as they were in the show (I still cannot imagine how “TheTouchOfFrost” truly believes his death had no consequences.)

    Dan,

    I’m pretty sure that’s exactly how it will end. Jaime will get Cersei’s letter, burn it and part to the capital with Myrcella and probably some Dornish characters. Though I imagine Jaime won’t stay long in King’s Landing next season, if he stops there at all.
  189. Speaking of Selmy is anyone afraid of Silver …will she make it out of Battle alive …now that dany has drogon she may not need silver as much she used to but i would like her to have that

  190. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I think the most vasic importance of Barristan’s death is that the Sons of the Harpy have now taken an emotional toll.on Daenerys. She was obviously concerned about them before, but with the death of her advisor/friend she is now emotionally invested in the conflict with the Sons of the Harpy. In the books they are a concern, obviously, but their attacks felt distant and that storyline didn’t resonate as much for that reason. It just makes sense dramatically that if we are supposed to care about he terrible things they’re doing, then there need to be negative consequences of those actions inflicted on characters we know/care about.

  191. TheTouchOfFrost,

    the show has succeded more with Dany’s dark sides than the other two youve mentioned. And when it comes to Tyrion the main mistake was to pair him for such a long time with Bronn, your favourite character who according you if he dies the whole show will collapse.

    And yes Danys reactions make sense. She gets angry and wants revenge for Selmy’s death in the beginning. Daario pushes her to that direction. It is not difficult if you are distressed after loosing someone whom you regarded as almost family. But then she cools down, thinks again possibly under the influence of Selmy and changes her mind, thus the marriage proposal and the opening of the pits. I do not see contradictions in it and rhymes well with Selmy’s death. And don’t foget that Aeschylus died because he got a turtle on his head, the man who wrote Oresteia and fough against Persians in the Marathon battle. If this can comfort you…

  192. dragonbringer,

    Because she is in the same boat as them in that regard. Joffrey had a public execution for someone who was technically a traitor and didn’t show any mercy. Dany did the same thing. Stannis had someone burnt alive as a gesture to warn others. So did Dany. Stannis showed no sympathy towards his sibling who was proving to be an obstacle which resulted in their death. So did Dany. Roose Bolton and Walder Frey double-crossed and butchered a group of people they had an agreement with because it got them what they wanted. So did Dany ( that business in Astapor). Ramsay displays bodies of his enemies as a warning for them not to disobey him. So does Dany. Just because we’re on her side doesn’t mean the things she does are any more justified unless you think the means justify the end. I maintain she has been whitewashed a lot. I can see why she has been but whitewashed none the less.
    Didn’t say he did advise mercy in the books. Show Barristan is a completely different kettle of fish mores the pity.

  193. Hodor Targaryen,

    Oh it works for emotional impact in the stroy-telling but I think it does nothing for Dany’s character. Still think offing Greyworm would have been better for that purpose as I honestly don’t see how he’s going to feature in any major way in the future and the corny MissandGrey thing really needs to end.

    dothrakian raven,

    Erm, I’m not sure at what point you’ve decided on Bronn being my favourite character but I’m afraid you’re wrong. Although the majority of the show watching public (including myself) will find him amusing and his presence will be missed by the show.
    So Tyrion strangling his love to death and then killing his father in cold blood isn’t as dark as Dany finding out her dad was crazy. I’m sorry but you can’t convince me that the show has effectively got across the threat of her being another Mad King. She’s presented as the hero in every scene and they didn’t make use of Selmy or Jorah enough to remind her of just how bad the Mad King was. Hopefully Tyrion can solve that problem as we go forward.

  194. chameleon,
    From what I’ve seen in interviews Kit is just that good. D&D have said they saw some footage in editing and thought it had been sped up, telling the editors to remove the effect, but it hadn’t. Kit was actually moving that fast. He’s just a natural.

  195. TheTouchOfFrost,

    Dany is more vicious in the show than she ever was in the books.

    Did u miss the part when she burned a potentially innocent guy and fed him to her dragons, while staring mesmerized into the fire… Did u not see the 100s of unsullied YouTube reviews and reactions where everyone suddenly thought she was going mad.

  196. TheTouchOfFrost,

    they have showed everything and even more like you say with your comparisons of jofferey and ramsey which is not even in the books …and yet you still say that she was whitewashed which is ridiculous

    when people say that she was in on his brother’s death i dont know what else to argue ….have a nice day

  197. HelloThere,

    She did that and more but they haven’t been presented in the negative light they should be as they were with the other characters. Because they happened to a character that most of the viewers are rooting for then her behaviour is justified in their eyes.

    dragonbringer,

    I don’t think you get the metaphor of ‘whitewashing’. It’s not necessarily removing things but presenting them in a favourable light or as the dictionary puts it “to gloss over or cover up vices, crimes or scandals or to exonerate by means of a perfunctory investigation or through biased presentation of data”. This fits Dany as her less moral or pleasant behaviour is presented so as to appear less so.
    You need to read more carefully. I didn’t say she was in on her brothers death, I made the comparison that she showed him no sympathy and viewed him as an obstacle she had to overcome.

  198. Dan:
    Regarding Jaime’s plot,

    Total speculation on my part based on the changes I understand the show has made to Jaime’s story – I’m only vaguely aware of what happens in the books and sadly not psychic. So, Lulu’s Mum’s attempt at sensible guess, hem hem:

    This has been mentioned by others, but if Ellaria and/or the Sand Snakes sent the necklace to Cersei, why do they seem surprised that Jaime and Bronn are in Dorne? There’s been no “so you/they got our message then” type dialogue, although to be fair they’ve not had much screen time that didn’t involve trying to attack people so that could well happen later. If, and it’s a big if, Cersei sent it to herself I imagine Jaime would be seriously unimpressed, although he may understand why she did it and it not go into full-on never speak to me again I hate you mode.
    If the High Sparrow finds out about the incest allegations – which he surely must have heard by now – and thinks there’s any truth in them, Cersei, Jaime and their kids are potentially all in serious trouble. If in the next few episodes it becomes clear that Myrcella is not only happy in Dorne but safe there too, and Jaime makes peace with the locals, it would probably be a lot safer for him and Myrcella to stay where they are for the time being. Although if he finds out Cersei and/or Tommen are in real danger he may go charging back to try and save them, or at least his son?

    TLDR: It’s all up in the air, they get kidnapped by aliens for all I know! ;O)

  200. Lulu’s Mum,

    If we’re speculating then I think that them may be holding off from doing the LS plot (or someone to take her role by proxy) with Jaime and Brienne because it results in the death of one or perhaps both of them and they don’t want to lose the characters yet. Pure specualtion though as I still think Jaime will be the one who finally puts an end to Cersei althogh I doubt he’ll live until the end of the show/series himself.

  201. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I don’t know how you can say it makes an emotional impact but doesn’t develop her character…she is now more emotionally involved in the Sons of Harpy conflict, that’s an important development.

    Abd to Luka Nieto’s point, she does lose the more conservative, conscientious advisor, at a time when she was very dependent on her advisors. If Grey Worm died and Barristan was there to counsel her, I highly doubt she would have fed one of the Masters to her dragons.

  205. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I’m always speculating, rather than ever predicting, ‘cos I have no real idea what I’m talking about! This always adds an extra element of “thinking outside the box”, although sometimes so far outside that the box is a long distant memory. Still it’s fun guessing and as none of you know me I can always pretend it was someone else who came up with that clearly ludicrous idea and in no way do my suggestions sometimes make even less sense than if you asked a random passing four year old – who clearly would never have seen the show – what they thought was going on :O)

  206. I hope the Edd photo portends his survival. I think they have to (well, should) leave some known characters to represent the part of the NW that supports Jon. IMO, Sam is not enough, because it looks like

    Sam will go to Oldtown (or wherever).

    I’d have no objection to the Wildling Chieftainess being Val, or maybe a combination of Val and Morna, though I wish she was more blonde..But in keeping with those who think it’s too soon for Jon to have another love interest, I think the show still could hold off on introducing Val until early next season. I have no doubt she’ll be important going forward in the books, so I think we’ll see her at some point.

    As for FTW…

    I think the cliffhanger in the books is entirely misleading. Careful deconstruction of the scene , put together with many other clues across all five novels leads me to suspect that Jon is neither dead nor comatose, but his berserker tendencies will kick in and he’ll get up and finish the fight. There will be no resurrection by Mel.. no long sojourn in Ghost.

    If I’m anywhere near right, FTW and it’s resolution could easily come in E10… Of course, D&D can write a version entirely their own as well, but the trainers of “Ghost” did say he had some big stuff this season (of the fighty-bitey variety) and I don’t think his intervention on behalf of Sam and Gilly quite lives up to that. At the same time, unless there are wolf jetpacks he can’t show up at Hardhome.. So what’s left ?

  207. Help! I typed in spoilers for the phrase , Sam will go to oldtown, and the paragraph following FTW.. first off , and again as an edit.. but they didn’t take. please fix

  209. Dan,

    I sure hope so, as his storyline has been pretty dulled down this year (aside from the golden hand-block and gaze at Tarth, he just hasn’t had many moments, which is understandable in a huge cast but somewhat underwhelming). He needs to break free from that particular prison.

  210. Hodor Targaryen,

    Luka Nieto,

    But she was already pretty heavily involved in it emotionally as it’s been her entire plot for this season and again would Grey Worm not have served the same purpose? I can see the point about removing her wiser advisor (hey that rhymes) but if (and it looks like it now)

    she buggers off back into the Dothraki Sea

    then I think Selmy would have been a much more useful character to have about in a command role

    during the siege of Mereen

    . I also think it would have been better to keep him about as a link to her father and brother if that plot point needed strengthening. For me , Grey Worm brings nothing to the table that isn’t more easily expendable.

    Lulu’s Mum,

    It’s fun trying to unravel what’s going to happen then see how close you were!
    Personally, I’d love to see some interaction between Dany and Jaime as I think it would be interesting to see him potentially explain why he killed her father although she doesn’t seem to hold much ill will towards him and seems to focus her anger againt Robert and Tywin in particular (not sure how Ned gets off so light either! Doubt it will ever happen but perhaps at some point Jaime revealed the story of what happened to Tyrion? With them now together then I imagine teh conversation that his brother killed her dad will come up at some point!

  211. Dan,

    I think he will but I don’t think there’s been enough reason for him to so far this season. If the story about her sleeping with Lancel filters through and perhaps something else maybe the threat against Myrcella being fake as some have speculated or maybe even she orders him to abandon Myrcella in order to come and save her? But at the moment him not responding seems a bit odd. Maybe Varys might play a part?

  212. Obsidian:

    I think the cliffhanger in the books is entirely misleading. Careful deconstruction of the scene , put together with many other clues across all five novels leads me to suspect that Jon is neither dead nor comatose, but his berserker tendencies will kick in and he’ll get up and finish the fight. There will be no resurrection by Mel.. no long sojourn in Ghost.
    During the several years I’ve been debating this topic (since ADwD was published 4 winters ago), I’ve never even considered the I’m not dead yet!” option. Berserker tendencies? So yours is a pragmatic approach to the CB “cliffhanger”? Interesting. Perhaps I will revisit the scenario with that in mind. Perhaps Ghost and Wun-Wun and Val and others will come to his defense and shield him from further harm. Maybe he is not mortally wounded but initially stunned.

    It is worth considering, but it sort of defeats the many “transcendence of Jon” theories, which need his warging/resurrection to allow his full immersion into a possible Azor Ahai destiny and his necessary connection to the armies of the dead. Like Ender, he needs to mindmeld with the bug in order to become Orson, who will stomp on the bug. 😉

  213. I think in the promo the wildling referred to his “ancestors” and not his “sister”

  214. This is a bit off-topic but I just had a great idea concerning one of the new roles:

    For Randyll Tarly: how about casting Martin Shaw for him? He’s very gruff and though in a quite lordly way I think. A really great actor, I used to think that he would have been a great Marwyn, but he would also be an excellent Randyll I think 🙂

  215. Obsidian: If I’m anywhere near right, FTW and it’s resolution could easily come in E10… Of course, D&D can write a version entirely their own as well, but the trainers of “Ghost” did say he had some big stuff this season (of the fighty-bitey variety) and I don’t think his intervention on behalf of Sam and Gilly quite lives up to that.

    I haven’t read any of the books but have read countless, countless! theories about FTW. Can I just say, I agree 1000% with you? 😀 I believe, to parallel what happens with Drogon saving Daenerys from the surprise attack at a certain Pit, Ghost will come as a total surprise when Jon is down and stand guard over him and then go to town on the attackers? The two-second pre-taste in 507 was a teeny-tiny set-up. Fire and blood! Ice and blood! Use Ghost sparingly, make people almost forget about him and then…. BOOM!

  216. I think in the promo the wildling referred to his “ancestors” and not his “sister”

  217. Hodor Targaryen,

    If Grey Worm died and Barristan was there to counsel her, I highly doubt she would have fed one of the Masters to her dragons.

    Good point, furthermore Barristan would have left her counsel, after he recovered from his wounds. This is another reason why show version ended Selmy’s arc early. Pretty sure now he falls in the Winds battle. Though it would be fun if GRRM decided to alter that arc and have Selmy survive to Westeros, just to flip a bird.

  218. tyjon,

    Be nice if he found out Ashara Dayne was still alive and they both retired and lived out the rest of their days together. No one would ever see that one coming: happiness!

  220. Charles M,

    Possibly, but I don’t think we can discount the actresses too. I mean I’m sure they’ll be fine when they actually get chance to act but fighting really doesn’t seem to be their thing. Again, I find it odd that Jessica Henwick (who has actually had wushu training prior to being in GoT…a kids show called Spirit Warriors here in the UK) pretty much stood there with her whip when she could have been given another weapon and ot stuck in to greater effect.

  222. Wimsey,

    Not in my view. They still need an hair to house Bolton. If Sansa takes out Roose and Ramsey, she can always send Walda packing as regent of house Bolton.

  224. Chad Brick,

    Cutting through five kingsguards like cake isn’t quite as impressive as it sounds though when those Kingsguards are:
    Ser Arys Oakheart: Apparently fell off the boat and drowned on the way to Dorne in the show, and nobody noticed him missing. Died pretty quickly in the book too, though to be fair, he was outnumbered and facing a skilled opponent.
    Ser Boros Blount: I don’t think they ever even mentioned him by name in the show. Surrendered without a fight in the books.
    Ser Mandon Moore. Killed by Podrick.
    Ser Meryn fucking Trant. Any boy whore with a sword could beat three Meryn Trants.
    Ser Preston Greenfield. Not mentioned by name in the show as far as I can remember, and killed by the mob during the King’s Landing riot in the books.

    I’m pretty sure that flock of harpies could have cut through those five Kingsguards very quickly too. We don’t know who was behind those masks. They could have been former pit fighters, they could have been mercenaries. There’s no reason to assume that they were all non-combatants prior to Daenerys’s conquest of the city.

  225. One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,

    You really like Kit don’t you! First he has a small penis (I mean maybe, who cares, but it’s kind of crazy that you even made speculations about this ) and now the sword is actually light? this quote about him being really quick and the show runners thinking the scene was fake came from an interview with D&D and its 100% true. I mean he is not the greatest actor in the world, but he has improved a lot and he is amazing in action scenes.

  226. Casso,

    Just a note:

    The Kingsguard who accompanied Myrcella in the show (let’s call him Arys Oakheart) came back to King’s Landing in the show: In the episode “Sons of the Harpy”, Tommen is seen escorted by five Kingsguards, when Jaime and Meryn Trant are out of the city, which means all the nameless secondary Kinsguards are accounted for in King’s Landing. Either Arys came back or he silently died and was replaced. It’s cleaner to just assume he came back.

  227. Rodario,

    Yeah, he should meet Varamyr. If I recall correctly, there was a casting call for this role (maybe mashed-up with that bald Thenn with the big axe that keeps popping up in the promos, played by a Bulgarian actor).

  228. Ionuts,

    That guy is named Loboda, not Varamyr. The casting call specified the name “Varamyr”. They are different characters.

  231. Casso,

    Balon Swann seems pretty sound though and Loras had potential but has been abandoned in that regard by the show 🙂

    That’s one of the things I missed from the books in the show. The complete opposites of what the Kingsgaurd were to what they are now, where we only really see Selmy and Jaime (debatable after his kingslaying but on fighting merit at least) as being worthy of the post. Hopefully if they ever do a Robert’s Rebellion prequel we’ll get to see them at their finest to contrast nicely with the Goon Squad they have become.

  233. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I agree, Ser Balon Swann would have been a tougher cake to carve than Ser Preston Greenfield, but he wasn’t in the Kingsguard until well after Barristan left King’s Landing.

  238. Casso,

    Did he come in to replace Moore and/or The Hound? It was about that time Loras joined as well. A Kingsguard with Selmy, Jaime, The Hound, Loras and Swann would have made at least half of the Kingsguard respectable! Shame that they missed eachother for whatever reasons.

  239. IIRC: Hound takes (dismissed) Selmy’s place Swann replaces (dead) Greenfield, Loras gets the Hound’s (deserted) place. Not sure who Kettleblack comes in for (the shortly dissmissed Blunt?). When news of Oakhart’s death gets to KL “Robert Strong” is a go (Cersei hoped he would replace Loras but dude refuses to actually die).

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