I woke up this morning, assuming I’d have a standard case of the Mondays, refreshing my news feed in the hopes of anything Game of Thrones related – Boy was I lucky to find two juicy articles fresh for the reading. The first, an in-depth overview of George R. R. Martin’s (author and architect of book series A Song of Ice and Fire) life and his lasting impact on the fantasy genre is not particularly revelatory, but is still a lovely read. The other, an in-depth retrospective on the life and times of Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister) is one of the best interviews I’ve read in a long time.
The New York Times George R. R. Martin article reads like an elongated synopsis of what will be the eventual GRRM biography. “Hello. Back again?” George says to a fan at Worldcon who has circled the line upwards of five or six times, hoping for a signature on a different book each time. George’s good nature with his fans is no shock to me, but remains a pleasure to read about it each time I do. With some reports claiming 85 million copies of ASOIAF have been sold as of summer 2018, his consistent down-to-earth lifestyle and humility remains a staple of the ever-growing fandom. Whenever he attends a con, it has become his custom to dine and drink with the city’s local chapter of The Brotherhood Without Banners, a multinational fan collective named after…well, you know. The whole piece makes for a good 15 minute read, and will hopefully refresh you on the little tidbits that make our favorite author so damn good.
The Peter Dinklage interview is in a league of its own, however. In a conversation with Vulture, while promoting HBO’s upcoming ‘My Dinner with Hervé,’ as is so common for any interview with the cast of GOT, talk turned to, well, you know. The finality of season 8 is what really got to him: “I’m glad the show happened in my life when it happened. I’m glad I wasn’t much younger or older. I’d done a lot of work before getting the show that I think informed what I wound up doing on Game of Thrones…The show was a beautiful experience — doesn’t happen all the time. But it was such a long shoot, so it’s hard to separate the TV show from my life.”
After years of acting as the same characters, goodbyes can be cathartic and sad: “A lot of people whom I love were on set that day [his last day of filming]. Even if they weren’t working, they came to set, which was beautiful.” He followed this chain of thought toward’s another character’s final day on set:
I won’t say their name or their character’s name, but one of the young people on the show wrapped this past season and everybody was a wreck. This person had grown up on the show, you know? They were a child and now they were an adult. And then they’re done. It’s like we were witnessing this person saying good-bye to their childhood.
Let the speculation begin! It would be safe to assume he is referring to Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark), or Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark). While the cast is indeed a close-knit bunch, I would have a hard time believing this comment refers to anyone other than Maisie Williams. Given Arya is one of the popular fictional characters on the planet, I just don’t see that kind of response given to Sansa or Bran (sorry, other Starks – I love you both dearly). Who do you think it is? Lino Facioli, aka heir to the Vale, Robin Arryn? Bella Ramsey (Lyanna Mormont)? The many infants/toddlers who have portrayed Little Sam?
Dinklage takes pride in the journey on which Tyrion has gone: “He certainly developed a deeper sense of responsibility over the course of the show. He was a pretty irresponsible character to begin with. He used his position as the outcast of his family like an adolescent would.” While that was where Tyrion started, here is what Dinklage feels about where Tyrion left off: “I feel very, very — I’m trying to find the right word. I think he was given a very good conclusion. No matter what that is —death can be a great way out.” While I’m sure much of the Internet will be abuzz with this quote, I wouldn’t read into it that much – Dinklage knows what he can and cannot say contractually, and I think he is just whetting everyone’s appetite for what is clearly going to be an emotional conclusion for us all.
I cannot say enough about how intriguing of a read this Dinklage interview is. For more on his life living abroad in Ireland, what questions people have for an American living in Europe, what sorts of projects he wants to pursue in the future, his views on method acting, what it’s like to be an actor with dwarfism, more insight into what it has been like to portray Tyrion Lannister for 8 seasons, and more – literally so, so, much more, please read the entire article!
ASNAWP!!
I’d probably have guessed Maisie as well, but piecing in some other things that have been said previously I think I have to say Sophie. It seemed like Maisie’s final wrap was at a later date and in a smaller group while Sophie has mentioned something about a lot around during her final scene/wrap and that she was a total mess emotionally. I’d guess one being a mess would spread to others…
Maisie and Sophie were teens when they started, right? Issaac would have been the youngest of the three actors and not yet a teen. I think he was 11 or 12 when the show started? It’s how Dinklage says they were a child, and doesn’t say they were a teen. Maybe I’m reading too much into it.
Arya is the one who tugs at my heart the most.
I think he is talking about Maise. I am pretty sure the three Starks will have great storylines in this final season, but I think Arya will have very heavy-emotional scenes. So I can imagine she delivering a heartbreaking performance and everybody on the set getting very emotional with her goodbye.
Both articles are fantastic, although the GRRM one doesn’t give us any new info. I could listen to Peter Dinklage talk all day! He is so intelligent.
Clob,
As I was eluding to in that first comment, in several interviews Sophie has mentioned the emotional wrap(s) that seem to fit Peter’s description. This is something she said in one from Digital Spy:
Maisie on the other hand apparently was one of the last to film her final scene(s), which of course doesn’t mean anything chronologically. Still, it was a couple weeks after some others appeared to have wrapped and Maisie’s announcement of finishing was an Instagram from Belfast of her shoes with #lastwomanstanding.
I really think he’s talking about Sophie. He’s talking about showing support by going to other actors’ wrap days. I just think he would naturally follow Sophie more than Maisie, since he would have shared many more scenes with Sophie than Maisie over the first 7 seasons.
Emotional mess sounds pretty Sophie to me. What a great interview with Peter!
Hardly it was Maise: she was “the last woman standing”, probably the last tp wrap, so Peter wouldn’t have witnessed her last scene. Sohie on the other hand filmed with him in Itallica/Dragonpit, and her last scene was aroun that time, if I remember correctly. So, there is a probability that Sansa’s last scene will involve Tyrion in some way.
And in general, it really looks like the showrunners are teasing Tyrion’s death: a word here, a word there… Sure, that doesn’t mean that Tyrion will actually die (something may save him at the very last moment), but it really looks that he’s no longer safe.
Tron79,
That’s what I think too. He only shared scenes with Sophie in the past. And since none of them are good fighters, they will share scenes in the next season. Their storylines are much more interwined.
Don’t get why people would think it is Maisie.
If Tyrion ended up dying rather than Dany or Jon I could see how that’d surprise many people. A sizable portion of watchers don’t think Tyrion has a high probability of dying so it’d be genuinely alarming to many I’m sure.
No matter what his fate is though, Tyrion has been a damn good character and Peter has truly brought him to life.
Chilli,
You all make good points about why it’s likely Sophie. It’s just odd that he saw the person as a ‘child’, if it’s really Sophie, because she was 15 when she began; furthermore, she was probably about 18 when they had scenes together. But maybe ‘child’ is a euphemism and he’s thinking of the person from the perspective of a viewer, not an actor.
Anon,
She was 13 when the pilot was shot. She was 15 when they had scenes together.
Isaac was 11 when he had talking scenes with Peter.
Edward,
Tyrion has been at death’s door so many times:
1) Trial at the Eyrie
2) Almost killed by the Hill tribes
3) Stampeded on Tywin’s battlefield
4) Almost lynched by King’s Landing mob
5) Slashed at the Blackwater
6) Sentenced to death for Joffrey’s murder
* Almost stabbed by Shae
7) Almost drank himself to death in a shipping crate
8) Almost drowned by a Stoneman
9) Captured by slavers and on verge of fighting to death in fighting pits
10) Almost killed in Harpy mob
Did I forget anything? Seems to me the only time his life settled down a bit was when Dany gave him a job. Many people have rescued Tyrion. It’d be really bad if he betrayed Dany.
I wonder why Peter didn’t just reveal who it was? It’s not like it would have spoiled anything, and I can’t imagine it would have embarrassed this person. In any case, I agree that it’s probably Sophie because they have shared the most scenes together out of the kids.
On a side note, My Dinner With Herve looks pretty good.
I think P.D. was talking of Sophie; he had 2 seasons of working with her side by side.
I’m guessing Sophie too because they shared a lot of intimate scenes together where just the two of them were the main focus. And the amount of emotion that’s mentioned, really makes me think that Sansa might not survive to the end. It sounds like D&D went above and beyond to make Sansa’s (their personal favorite imo) last scene “special” for her. And even Peter came to comfort her… 😢
I think Peter is referring to Isaac actually. Isaac is the only one of the “children” Peter shot scenes with way back in Season 1, and it would be emotional and fitting for Peter to be there at Isaac’s last shot as well. My other guess would be Maisie since Peter could very well have still been filming when she filmed her last scnenes since she was only the last *woman* standing.
Anon,
You forgot almost barbecued by chained dragons!
Clob,
ASNAWP indeed.
If Maisie in character as Arya saw everyone being an “emotional wreck” as she wrapped up her last day of filming, she would’ve insulted them before sticking them with the pointy end of Needle.
Which would explain the bloody sneakers. 🤔
#LastWomanStanding
So yeah, Peter was probably referring to Sophie Turner.
Anon,
12) Almost rolled out of the sky cell in his sleep
Inga,
No one is safe, but that doesn’t mean that Tyrion dies. I actually think it is a strategy to tease Tyrion’s death to throw us off from other spoilers. HBO has been really sneaky that way this season.
And it appears to be Sophie who Peter is talking about. Sophie and Peter obviously filmed quite a bit together, so it would make sense that that was who Peter was referring to getting to see grow up. Maisie was heavily involved with whatever was going down on the KL set with the Sapochnik episode and I think was one of the last to wrap. I believe that she may have wrapped after Kit while Peter and Sophie wrapped in Italica.
got_tv_fan,
“Maisie was heavily involved with whatever was going down on the KL set with the Sapochnik episode and I think was one of the last to wrap. I believe that she may have wrapped after Kit while Peter and Sophie wrapped in Italica.”
————
I was not aware of this. I know they sometimes film scenes out of order. Still, this makes me hopeful that after being relegated to the bullpen for much of S7, Arya will play a critical role and be the MVP of S8.
#LastWomanStanding
Ten Bears,
Maisie filmed ALOT this season so there is still hope for her fans that she will get to do something of value. Maisie did quite a bit of filming in the Belfast KL set and Maisie also definitely filmed in Spain, unlike a few of the other actors – Nikolaj and Lena – for instance. I’ve heard some plausible speculation that she might save non-combatants in KL or obviously kill Cersei.
Viz,
…word. I daresay, I don’t think any other character has come close to death so many times. Each time, Tyrion is delivered.
Ten Bears,
Yes! It’s quite striking how much danger he’s been in. I realize that his dwarfism contributes directly to that. It contributes indirectly also, because Tywin & Cersei hated him for it.
My hope is that D&D read audience reviews of entire seasons or have someone that does to give them notes. It wasn’t just on this site but seemingly a pretty widespread consensus that Arya’s Winterfell arc was a bit of a let down for viewers, aside from a couple scenes. For six and a half seasons she was ‘built’ for so much more than (that). It’s time to kick the tires and light the fires with ASNAWP!!
OT side note… TWD dropped big again in initial viewership. It was waaay down to 6.08 for the season premiere, but the second episode got an abysmal (for their history) 4.95!!
Clob,
Both Arya and Jon had hatchet jobs done to their characters in Season 7 to make Dany and Sansa look good respectively. And Tyrion hasn’t been on the show for the last three years since Season 4.
It would be great if they did take complaints seriously. I doubt, however, the producers care what the audience thinks as they are still raking in the awards and ratings.
got_tv_fan,
“I’ve heard some plausible speculation that she [Arya] might save non-combatants in KL or obviously kill Cersei.”
…………
(1) I can envision Arya saving non-combatants at KL. That would be consistent with her character’s empathy for the “smallfolk” and “commoners” that most of the other characters treat as disposable or expendable.
(2) However, if the show tracks the books’ “Valonqar” (“little brother”) prophecy, then a male has to be the one to “wrap his hands” around Cersei’s throat and strangle her to death. It can’t be Arya. (And if she’s wearing a guy’s face, that would be cheating – not to mention an overuse of the face-peeling trick we’ve already seen her use three times.)
As of October, 2018, my front runners for the prophecy’s “the little brother” are:
1. Jon Snow aka Aegon Targaryen 2:1
2. Tyrion Lannister 4:1
3. Euron 5:1
4. Jaime Lannister 5:1
I know Jaime’s the consensus favorite, but no matter how you slice it he only has one hand. The Valonqar is supposed to wrap his hands (plural) around Cersei’s throat.
Jon moved up to the #1 slot not only because he’s “the little brother” of Rhaegar’s two identically-named sons, but because of what I first dismissed as a crappy throwaway scene from S7e2: LF’s idiotic encounter with Jon in the WF crypts. It was as if LF was saying one inappropriate thing after another just to piss off Jon, culminating in the gross [paraphrasing] “I love Sansa just as I loved her mother.”
Jon’s reaction? “You touch my sister and I’ll kill you myself” — as he wraps his hands around LF’s throat and starts strangling him.
If Cersei does anything to endanger Arya or Sansa…Jon will wrap his hands around Cersei’s throat and choke the life out of her. (Probably after Arya or Sansa takes custody of Baby Tyvek from Cersei, ie, takes all she holds dear).
* Removes tinfoil hat *
Either that, or that S7s2 Jon-LF scene was a total waste of time: Jon left on his mission to Dragonstone, and while he was gone LF was executed. The way I see it. the only purpose of that Jon-LF encounter was to show how otherwise docile Jon could be triggered to go ballistic. Sort of like how he was turning Ramsey’s face into ground beef because of what he’d done to Sansa.
got_tv_fan,
Yeah, probably.
One has to think that George has some big plans for Arya within the climax of the books story. I mean, he has her training in and learning all sorts of things in Braavos that have to serve a purpose, and that’s after she already fought her way out of Westeros leaving an even bloodier wake than the show version. If D&D are suppose to meet his ending I have to believe she’ll be one of those in the forefront in S8.
Clob,
“My hope is that D&D read audience reviews of entire seasons or have someone that does to give them notes. It wasn’t just on this site but seemingly a pretty widespread consensus that Arya’s Winterfell arc was a bit of a let down for viewers, aside from a couple scenes. For six and a half seasons she was ‘built’ for so much more than (that). It’s time to kick the tires and light the fires with ASNAWP!!”
———–
I’m pretty sure Cogman or one of the other showrunners said they’ve watched Burlington Bar reaction videos. If they have, then they surely know that Arya is the fan’s’ favorite character, and her ASNAWP scenes get the most cheers.
Clob,
I think that both Kit and Maisie did more work because both are “fighters” rather than civilians. Action sequences take more time to film than dialogue sequences. While Arya fans might be excited about her filming time, this doesn’t necessarily correlate to her having the most screentime or even the most important arc (or any arc for that matter.) Jon had the most film time in Season 7, but was just there as Dany’s sidekick. Arya and Jon might just end up as the “muscle” in Season 8.
Ten Bears,
I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, because it feels embarrassing to admit, but I freakin’ love watching GoT reaction videos. For other shows I think they’re super dumb since it’s people filming themselves watching dumb shows and posting it. 😛 For GoT though I have dozens of YouTube channels saved of people I enjoy watching react. As with Burlington Bar reactions, across the board people completely lose it for ASNAWP action. 😀
Clob,
While we’re at it, considering all of the books! characters excised from the show completely, and books! characters prematurely terminated on the show (e.g., Barristan, Mance, Doran), they could’ve easily left the Hound “dead.”
The fact that they chose to bring him back and (in my view) give him such a prominent role since his return in S6e7 should mean he’s going to play a key role in S8. Or else… why bother?
For that matter, why bother with conspicuous callbacks to Arya’s unresolved emotions about Sandor in Braavos scenes in S5 (Arya: “I hated him!”; Jaqen: “A girl lies to me, to the Many Faced God… to herself”) and S6 (telling Waif she’d taken Sandor off her list; she didn’t want him dead anymore; she was confused), if there’s not going to be a meaningful Arya-Sandor reconciliation (and team up?) in S8. If the showrunners give any credence to audience reaction, then they have to know that the Adventures of The Hound and the Wolf Girl in S3 and S4 are some of the best scenes in the entire show.
got_tv_fan,
I understand that and didn’t say anything about that specifically. I don’t know for certain that anyone had way more filming work than others during this successfully secretive filming season. Earlier in the comments I mentioned that we know Maisie was one of the last to film scenes, but as we know, that doesn’t necessarily mean she filmed more and it definitely doesn’t offer any proof that she’s in the final scene. What I DID write is that I believe, or at least hope, that Arya will be a major player in the climax because I think that’s what George is building her for. That isn’t implying she’s in MORE than anyone else but that what she does do is more than hanging around Winterfell and bitching at people.
hey all
GRRM tweet “fire and blood coming soon”. is this a book?
Clob,
As a crotchety, short attention span, pre-books show-only fan, I freely admit that it was Arya’s firing the arrow at the bullseye and taking a bow before scampering off in S1e1 that kept me watching. Otherwise, I would’ve clicked off the remote. Her character was the “lens” through which I viewed the events of the show.
I’m sure I’ve said this before: Maisie Williams is the only actress or actor I consider irreplaceable. (Recently, I even thought to myself when watching Mad Max: Fury Road that with the singular exception of Maisie as Arya, GoT could be recast with the actresses and actors in that movie with no noticeable difference in quality.)
All that aside, why bother devoting so much time and resources to Arya’s storyline if she’s just going to be a second-string benchwarmer like she was in the second half of S7?
Clob,
I agree. Arya pointedly being handed the dagger by Bran is bigger than slicing littlefinger’s measly throat.
Hey, Dee. Yep, on Targaryen history.
https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Blood-Thrones-Targaryen-History/dp/152479628X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1539712451&sr=8-1&keywords=fire+and+blood
I hope they make Tyrion smart and witty again in S8, instead of the author of failed “clever plans” who got outmaneuvered and outfoxed in S7, and hasn’t had a really funny quip for several seasons.
I hated it when his intricate invasion plan turned to total sh*t, resulting in the loss of Dany’s Tyrell, Dornish and Greyjoy allies.
I kinda wish somebody had advised Dany: “Just nuke the Red Keep. Shock and awe. Game over in one day.” Instead, thousands and thousands of people on both sides have been killed.
I thought that’s the kind of massive loss of life that “breaking the wheel” was supposed to prevent.
… And I don’t want to even get started on Tyrion’s ridiculous Wight Hunt idea – let alone why nobody shot back at him “What are you, out of your f*cking mind!”
Ten Bears,
Yeah, if we’re going to talk about characters torn apart for the sake of making a story, Tyrion has to be up there. He was the tool in S7 for the war to actually become something close to “fair.” If it were reality I don’t see him making any of those plans, at least not without some heavy reconnaissance work. Yeah, lets have the Unsullied sail all the way around to Casterly Rock without checking things out first or providing any support when they had three dragons. We’ll just bet on everything there being as assumed…
I did like his remark to Jon about feeling like he’s failing at brooding over failure after seeing Jon’s brooding.
Probably Peter not should not have implied one of the child actors died. His wording was careful but current speculation is the result.
That said, I venture it was Sophie or Isaac. Isaac because Bran seems doomed to die of self sacrifice to win the war against the dead. Also, Isaac’s going to uni and might Abandon acting, just as Jack Gleeson did. That would make his final scene very emotional for the other cast members. Sophie Finished filming In Seville and was seen crying copiously. Also, it did not seem like she filmed that much this year. Maisie filmed almost as much as kit. Filming time is no guarantee of anything, but it might be an indicator. There’s a great deal of Circumstantial evidence that Arya will live. Not only did George once list her as a character who would live through the end of the story, but his wife told him that she would divorce him if he killed her. More importantly, Dave and Dan gave her the west of WesteRos possible future and had hot pie called her a survivor. So her chances of surviving on pretty good. Touch wood.
Ten Bears,
I’m actually beginning to think it would have been better for Tyrion to have died at the end of Season 4. It seems like his arc ended once he killed his father. He has been really useless since then and an actor of Peter’s caliber should get to do more than pine for Dany like an incel and get off witty one-liners. I mentioned this before but the only reason why I think Tyrion is around is to serve as the regent for Targ incest baby. I’d love for Tyrion to actually be in power on his own as leader of the Westeros Grand Council or whatever (Season 4 Tyrion, of course), but it seems like the show is gung ho about the Targ restoration (and they are Martin’s favorite family) so alas this won’t happen.
Stark Raven Rad,
Sophie was apparently emotional about her final day filming. I believe that both Peter and Sophie filmed in Seville quite extensively and as neither are fighters it wouldn’t have shocked me if they wrapped together. (Joe also apparently wrapped in Seville.) It didn’t have to do with the character’s fate. I think it had to do more with leaving this part of life behind and growing up. I think that both Stark sisters survive.
Agreed: Insightful interview of Peter Dinklage. I appreciated his shout-out to Winona Ryder’s scene in the film “Night on Earth”:
Q: “I know this is a cliché, but if you can find consistent enjoyment in your work, you’ve solved one of the keys to life.”
A: “Yeah, that reminds me of the Jim Jarmusch film, Night on Earth. Gena Rowlands plays this high-powered Hollywood executive, and Winona Ryder plays her cab driver from the airport. At the end, she offers Winona Ryder the lead in her movie, and Winona’s character is like, “No, I’m not interested.” “What? Everybody wants to be a famous actress.” “I like being a cab driver.” I think about that. How beautiful is that?”
None of the Starks kids is gonna die. The Starks are the heart of the story as we have watched the kids surviving their family downfall and evolve into what they are by season 7. Theirs was a messed up coming of age story.
Eonwe,
A Time for Wolves
I concur with both of you: sisters live. But I do believe Bran will die.
In addition to what I wrote before, I don’t think there’s really a place for him among humanity. But there is need for the sisters In building a new and improved Westeros.And as you say it is it time for Wolves. Theoretically 🙂
got_tv_fan,
Couldn´t be more spoilery the original title for this series.
My first reaction was it’s Maisie too. She just looks so young in S1, I know Sophie was 14 back then so I’m guessing Maisie was ten or eleven.
yes it is Dee, I believe on the Targaryen dynasty.
I was always thinking it was literal like LotR (The Age of Men). I figured everyone was going to die and the direwolves & wolves would rule the continent – OR – the Starks would all be killed while warging with wolves so their consciousness would live on within the animal. The End.
No, I didn’t think any of that 😛
Stark Raven Rad,
It might be a Frodo type ending. I know that the super-ASOIAF fans over at Westeros.org, Linda and Elio, thought that Bran never left the tree up north.
Jon Snowed,
Maisie (1997) is only 1 year younger than Sophie (1996).
Stark Raven Rad,
Actually, Bran is already dead: he died in that cave and now his body is just a host for the consciousness of the Three-eyed Raven. And although there’s indeed no place for the Three-eyed Raven in the post-war world, there might be other exit ways, not only physical death of the body. And I strongly believe that at least his spirit will survive in the trees.
I’m thinking that Bran (Mr Hempstead-Wright) would be a good candidate, because MAN! has that boy grown! And also, he’s been transformed in ways none of the other characters have. It could very well be that Bran “solves” the central conflict by some weird weirwood-magical time travel ploy or something. Or that he’s the last man “standing” (as it were), while the White Walkers rule the earth.
My prejudice is to prefer this ending over having Sansa sitting the Iron Throne and lording it over everyone in Westeros, which would also suggest that Jon and Dany and all the dragons are dead. Your mileage may vary!
Perhaps this explains why “The Winds of Winter” etc are so slow in coming??
Like he’s waiting until he’s tired of her before publishing? Ha! 😀
I’m still about 99% confident ASNAWP will survive. I’m probably also about 95% on Sansa. Bran feels like a casualty in body for me right now. He’s so entwined in the weirwood network that he’s already not Bran anymore, so he could aid in something major and then be totally absorbed consciously at the end.
got_tv_fan,
I´ll say only one thing. The POV chapers starts with Bran in the books and will end with him too.
Any King besides Jon & I’ll be totally disappointed. Any Queen besides Arya or Dany & I’ll be pissed as hell. No thanks on the regent bullshit. Nobody in Westeros would follow Tyrion, Davos, Jorah or any of the other “assistants”. Just make everybody a King & Queen then… Either the mains or no one at all. Hell I’ll take the Night King running things over some crazy ending with rulers that the general population would never follow. Nobody would follow a kinslaying dwarf in those times… The ending has to be logical.
Aegon the Icedragon,
The ruler shouid be someone with compassion and empathy for the “smallfolk” and commoners – preferably someone who’s lived among them; someone who disdains class snobbery; someone who doesn’t feel entitled by blood or family name; and someone who is not reluctant to dispense justice to evildoers.
Which leaves one candidate….
👸🏻
A couple of Stark kids have already died. Two of Neds 3 male heirs are dead. The middle boy, Bran, is crippled and has made it clear that he’s not Brandon Stark anymore. Sure it’s a triumph that any of them survived at all, but realistically, the girls don’t pass on the family name. They have their castle, but it’s facing an attack from white-walkers. The Starks are in bad shape for the future.
I do hope that both Arya and Sansa survive. It’d be cruel for either of them to be alone in the world. The Stark family has survived for so long, it’s hard to think of them not projecting into the story’s future; but, even empires can die. Families can be killed off. The Lannisters tried their damnedest to make that happen. This cruelty is one that small folk suffer all the time. People like Varys, for instance, had not a soul in the world. Shae was alone. Sandor is effectively alone. Why shouldn’t someone rich and powerful be alone, cruel as it is?
Anon,
“A couple of Stark kids have already died. Two of Neds 3 male heirs are dead. The middle boy, Bran, is crippled and has made it clear that he’s not Brandon Stark anymore. Sure it’s a triumph that any of them survived at all, but realistically, the girls don’t pass on the family name.”
—————
And here’s where a bit of tinfoil intrudes:
By all rights, Queen Daenerys should have already legitimized Jon Snow, just as Stannis had offered Jon in S5e2:
“Kneel before me, lay your sword at my feet, pledge me your service and you’ll rise again as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell.”
Anon,
Because Martin isn’t a nihilist. He broke the tropes and clichés of the genre but he loves the scouring of the Shire. And that’s what we’ll see by the end. Westeros being rebuilt.
As promised, even if reluctantly promised, Jaime Lannister sent an envoy and his closest friend to protect Sansa and Arya. Brienne fought like a dog to try to protect Arya. Sansa is alive today because of Brienne and Jaime. Do not underplay Jaime’s role. In the show, after Sansa fled KL, Brienne did not go looking for her until specifically outfitted and dispatched by Jaime for this purpose. In the books, Brienne’s search is very much about Jaime as well.
The Starks and Lannisters will be allies in Season 8 and persons from this group will lead Westeros forward after/if the dead are defeated. (I am counting Brienne as a Tarth Lannister.) The big point of the Littlefinger trial was Sansa, Bran and Arya declaring that the trouble btw the Starks and Lannisters was caused by LF. This set the stage for a new start with these two families. Bran and Jaime? Tightest allies to the extent Bran can.
Both Targs are magic elements of the story. Their main point is to battle the other magic elements- NK and wights. My tinfoil is that Jon is himself Lightbringer and his job is to bring the flaming sword (fire dragons and their commander, Daenerys) to fight the Others. Jon and Daenerys are team for a single purpose. She was never intended to attack KL – her purpose was to go North. The dragons were born again for that purpose.
Arya will likely be OK at the end. But she could also die, like everyone else in this series. No one is safe. If she lives, I cannot see a future for her in which she retains her powers and keeps a bag on faces under her bed. Can you see her kids getting into the bag and throwing the heads all over the room?
Mango,
“The big point of the Littlefinger trial was Sansa, Bran and Arya declaring that the trouble btw the Starks and Lannisters was caused by LF.”
———
Good point. Now all Bran has to do is forgive Jaime and tell him his fall was preordained, and the families can be allies (except of course for Cersei).
Also, it was never made clear on the show who sent the assassin to try to kill unconscious Bran. I assume it wasn’t Jaime. Was it?
I’ve seen speculation it was Joffrey. If it was LF, he’d be an idiot to bring the (attempted) murder weapon back to WF to give to Bran. The whole question of who the dagger belonged to was left all messy by S7e7. In S7e4, LF told Bran he didn’t know who it belonged to. In S7e7 Arya accused LF of lying to her mother by saying it belonged to Tyrion Lannister, when it was really LF’s. That all left me confused. So did LF offering it to Bran.
Do we know who hired the catspaw assassin and gave him the dagger to kill Bran?
All of these teasing is just making the long wait worse. Every single time a cast member share his/her final day, I just can’t deal, I didn’t watch the FRIENDS finale live, I caught up to it while in high school and even if I saw the series finale so many years later, I bawled uncontrollably. Watching the GoT finale LIVE, I bet almost everyone will be so emotional, inconsolable however/whichever way it ends for these characters.
Also Tyrion dying or not dying, I’m on board with either as long as it best reflects Tyrion’s journey throughout the show. Same with Arya, Daenerys, Bran, Jon, Sansa heck even Cersei.
River,
Arya cannot die. Banish the thought.
Ten Bears,
It wasn’t clear in the books either who was the catspaw assassin.
Now, that’s interesting! If I recall correctly, Stannis wanted something from Jon which is why he made the offer. I don’t think Dany is as manipulative as Stannis. I will have to watch again to see how much she knows about Jon’s pain at being a bastard. I’d forgive her for not noticing it because he is, after all, a King.
If they talk about it next season and she legitimizes him, that would be a major twist! I’m wondering now under what circumstances she’d do this. It wouldn’t be to manipulate him… she might do it if she’s pregnant and wants her child to have a name other than Snow. She might do it if she knows he’s Targ but wants to conceal their incestuous relationship to protect the baby. Very interesting idea!
Ten Bears,
Arya has the best arc in my opinion, and arguably the most realistic of all the characters. I don’t want her or Tyrion or Jon or Sansa or Brienne to die but to be honest, each of the main characters could go either way, they could either die heroically or live peacefully/tragically.
There’s no way Cersei schemes her way out of the hole she dug for herself but I have this gut feeling that two, three or even four of the good guys will join her. I’m talking about fan favorites, if you look at it closely there’s so many of our faves still alive on Team Jon and Team Dany, they’ve given us a relatively light S7 just to hit us with the bloodbath that is S8 or not 😉 it might be a heartfelt and very musical ending celebrating each and every character, both deceased and alive. With Arya though, she deserves to follow that dream, discover a life outside of Westeros, she’s more than a Lady of Winterfell, she is so much more than that now. It feels like she’s above all of this Westeros politicking, maybe Sansa and Arya could have a little backpacking someplace else when all of this is over. I want the sisters to survive which in GoT is too much to ask I guess.
I’m sure that Cersei or Euron will kill one favorite character at the end just before they die. It will be like Gandalf with the balrog, but the hero will stay dead this time.
Anon,
Stannis wanted “the North.” Jon gave it to Dany. Jon declined Stannis’s offer because he’d pledged himself to the NW, but that’s no longer an impediment.
Even if Jon wouldn’t want to upset Sansa by becoming “Lord” of WF (would he displace the “Lady” of WF?), legitimizing him as Jon Stark is the least Dany could do.
Would the subsequent revelation of his parentage affect that? Sam knew how much Jon wanted to be a Stark; he might not want to mess it all up by disclosing the secret.
As it is, the only real “evidence” of his parentage is BirdBrain’s vision. Would that be enough? (All Gilly and Sam can “prove” is Rhaegar’s annulment from Elia and marriage to Lyanna Stark. Everything about the baby born to Lyanna and given to Ned comes from Bran’s psychedelic trips).
Ten Bears,
I don’t think believing that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna would be the problem. It’s Ned’s story that was unbelievable. Someone so honourable as Ned Stark would never have sex with another woman while being married. According to King Robert and others, Rhaegar raped Lyanna, so it’s not so unbelievable this would lead to a child and that Ned would want to protect it. He was also against Dany being murdered, a lot of people in Kingslanding knew that.
i don’t remember right now, but wasn’t Bran still in a coma when the catspaw assassin appeared? if so, LF had all right to think Bran didn’t know anything about the dagger and could feel free to tell him any shit about it.
When LF gave the dagger to Bran he didn’t know yet about Bran’s Greenseer skills. for LF’s plans, the dagger has always been useful when it was in the hands or at the throats of Stark family members. not the worst idea to place it close to two sisters he thought he could play against each other.
by telling Catelyn the dagger had been Tyrion’s he triggered her into arresting Tyrion. which started a series of events that resulted in the sort of chaos he saw as his ladder to the top. a stabbed wolf girl would have kept the chaos cooking the way he likes it.
Bran’s LF-quote was the perfect one. it said “i know everything you did. with and without that dagger.”
one off screen stark children meeting later, Arya knew more than LF has told Bran about the dagger. so she could confront him with what he thought to be his little secret.
i’m betting on LF being the one who sent the assassin to Bran. it fits into the scheme of LF placing the dagger into the right hands. No One would use his own weapon against him…
I wonder if it’s still thus important for Jon to be legitimized as a Stark as it was before he was “reborn”.
On the other hand he was kind of legitimized as the northern lords declared him as KitN: I know only one king in the North and his name is Stark.
Hey, TB, a new Maisie article! 🙂
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/oct/17/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-interview-marvel
I like this part:
Yep, sure, everyone remaining should be a big part of the final season, but I’ll be happy to have a bunch o’ ASNAWP though!! 😀
For me her statements sort of eliminate her from a contender for Peter’s remarks as well. I can’t blame her for being exhausted playing Arya. She’s had some pretty physically and emotionally difficult scenes to do during the series run. MFT! had to be tough for example
Clob,
Who knows where and when during the season this final scene that she filmed will take place, but I’m also excited to see more of her “alone.” What it means to me is that at some point she’ll have at least one scene where she’s the only focus. 🙂
Actually, it was. The assassin was just some guy – hired by Joffrey, who gave him one of King Robert’s innumerable gift daggers. But we don’t know the ultimate origin of that dagger, nor why it appeared in that book Samwell was reading in the Citadel.
Fewer. Stannis lives!
Clob,
Ah, you beat me to it. I just saw this article as well. Always great to get actual confirmation that season 8 will be ASNAWP-heavy! 🙂 I’m hoping that it will be 40% ASNAWP-ing, and 60% character-driven moments between her and Jon, Sandor, Sansa, Brienne, and of course Gendry because I still have a soft spot for those two.
I can definitely understand Maisie’s exhaustion at playing Arya — the character has been through a LOT. Both emotional and physical stuff, the peak of which is to come in season 8.
Maybe her final scene that she filmed was her sailing off west of Westeros? That would be a beautiful scene to end on. Or it could be a scene with Nymeria. That would be another beautiful one to end on.
I’m pretty sure that Joffrey’s role in hiring the assassin is just a theory and has not been confirmed. As is the fact that Robert owned the dagger and that Joffrey took it and hired the assassin in order to impress his “father”. It’s certainly plausible, but we still don’t know for sure.
Ten Bears,
I think it was made clear during Littlefinger’s trial that he was the one who sent the assassin. He gave Bran the dagger for the same reason he gave Robin the gyrfalcon. He tried to buy Bran’s loyalty with a fancy gift.
I would have to agree. Jaime or Brienne for Cersei and Theon for Euron.
FEWER
Well, I’m going more by the books here. Tyrion had a flash of Joffrey’s involvement on Joff’s big wedding day, where Joffrey remarked nastily how he was familiar with Valyrian steel. Littlefinger had claimed earlier to Catelyn that he had won the catspaw blade (good name, by the way) from Tyrion, who had bet against his brother Jaime in a tourney and lost. Later narrative (and I need to locate where) indicated (1) Tyrion never bet against other Lannisters and had never owned the blade, and (2) Robert had won the catspaw off Littlefinger in that particular bet, because Bob was a man who would bet against the Kingslayer.
So, apparently, it actually was Baelish’s daggger; the question remains open as to how Baelish came by it in the first place. Not to mention its earlier history.
Back to the attempted euthanizing of Brandon – how in the world could Littlefinger have learned, way back in King’s Landing, that Brandon Stark had fallen and was in a coma and needed to be killed? Much less sent someone way up to Winterfell with a dagger that belonged to, and was apparently in the possession of, King Robert? Only teleportation and some kind of omniscience would do it. Remember, Littlefinger has already sent Catelyn a coded message from her sister Lysa implicating the Lannisters in Lysa’s husband (Jon Arryn)’s death. Why layer it on?
Yeah, this is another part of the muddled writing that so many have griped about. Much worse than “the chains!!!” in my opinion. I think B&W will have dropped this plotline as having been “resolved”, so there may be no further updates. Although we can hope there’s more about the dagger’s origins.
zandru,
I don’t know what you mean by “muddled.” Like I said, the writers made it perfectly clear that Littlefinger was behind it. I agree about the dagger. I believe I read an interview where they made sure the dagger was clearly visible on the page in Sam’s book, so it’s sure to come into play at some point.
Enharmony1625,
As is the fact that Robert owned the dagger and that Joffrey took it and hired the assassin in order to impress his “father”. It’s certainly plausible, but we still don’t know for sure.
wasn’t Ned still hand of the king at the time of the assassination attempt? THAT would have impressed Robert: the son of his best man and friend Ned Stark killed by “his” son. he would have beaten the living sunlight out of Joffrey.
btw, i see this:
“death by chickenfire
October 17, 2018 at 7:25 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
(my comment)”
is it really or can anyone else than me see it?
zandru,
“But we don’t know the ultimate origin of that dagger, nor why it appeared in that book Samwell was reading in the Citadel.”
it appeared in the chapter about dragonglass. parts of the pages were readable with the stop button pressed at the right time. i remember something about ornamental use of dragonglass in weapon manufacturing.
Clob,
Jon Snowed,
thanks to you both!
death by chickenfire,
“The Valyrians were familiar with dragonglass long before they came to Westeros. They called it [some Valyrian words] which translates to ‘frozen fire’ in Valyrian, and eastern texts tell of how their dragons would thaw the stone with dragonflame until it became molten and malleable. The Valyrians then used it to build their strange monuments and buildings without seams and joints of our modern crafters.
When Aegon the Conqueror forged his Seven Kingdoms, he and his descendants would often decorate their blades with dragonglass, feeling a kinship with the stone. The royal fashion for dragonglass ornamentation soon spread throughout the Seven Kingdoms to those wealthy enough to afford it. Hilts and pommels were and are the most common decoration, for dragonglass is too brittle to make a useful crossguard. Indeed, its very brittleness is what relegates it to the great houses and the most successful merchants.”
Bookwise: Littles hit Joffrey paid the assassin with both coin and the dagger itself. The dagger was taken from Robert’s personal belongs.
Littleshit wanted to seek Robert’s approval an hear Robert say in WF that killing Bran would be more mercy full than letting him comatose and with his legs broken.
The assassination fails. Cat get the dagger and goes to KL to fall into the clutches of Varys and Baelish. When he presents Ned the dagger Littlefinger seizes the opportunity. He has already put the blame of Jon death onto the Lannisters via Lysa. Ned and Cat are furious and an easy prey.
So he tells half the truth. “The dagger is mine or was. I lost it to the Dwarf betting in a joust between the king Slayer and the knight roses”.
Voilá! The Starks have now a very personal bone against the Lannisters. Cat urges Ned to trust LF. Cat takes prisoner Tyrion. Jaime attacks Ned. Tywin attacks the riverlands.
And later Tyrion tell us the truth. It was Robert’s dagger. He never bets against Jaime so he couldn’t have won the dagger.
Little threads that forms a tapestry.
Thanks, Eonwe! The book lays it out pretty clearly. The show doesn’t do a good job of explaining how Littlefinger (in King’s Landing) was able to (1) Find out about Bran’s fall and comatose condition, (2) send up a hit man with an incredibly valuable Valyrian steel dagger that Baelish just trusted him to go on a suicide mission with, (3) in the time scale required, (4) knowing that it would cause Catelyn to come to King’s Landing ahead of Ned with the dagger, (5) so Baelish could lie to them both, and (6) enabling Catelyn to intercept Tyrion’s party as they returned from the Wall. I’m sticking with the books…
Anon,
# Almost wiped out (with Dany) by the Slavers artillery in Meereen. (Slavers attacking Meereen).
zandru,
You are making assumptions that Littlefinger only sent the dagger after Bran was crippled. What if it was always his plan to assassinate one of the Stark children to escalate the tensions between the Starks and the Lannisters? After Lysa’s letter, the Lannisters would automatically fall under Ned and Cat’s suspicions. Catelyn coming to him and running into Tyrion on the road is just lucky coincidence for him, but it wouldn’t be the first time that Littlefinger got lucky.
I didn’t like the reveal in the books. If Joffrey tried to kill Bran to please his father, why didn’t he tell Robert of what he had done?
As you noticed Maisie looked so young in S1, however, (ST & MW) are only one year apart:
Sophie (born Feb. 21, 1996), was 13 in the pilot.
Maisie(born Apr. 15, 1996), was 12 in the pilot.
That would be true if the source is one of Arya’s fans, not Peter Dinklage, who I believe is paying tribute to someone whom he had interactions and shared scene with. I put my money on Sophie.
Young Dragon,
Because Bran in the end wasn´t killed. What´s the point of saying to Robert “I pulled that wretched kid out of his misery” when said wretched kid is still alive and breathing.
Besides the whole attempt is so poorly planned an executed. Lacked subtlelty, giving a valyrian dagger was totally idiotic (there are only 200 blades in Westeros).
It doesn’t need more to make me convinced, that it was Little Shithole’s idea.
Young Dragon,
What kind of idiot brings the (attempted) murder weapon back to the scene of the crime? Boy, they really turned Mr. Master Manipulator into a total moron in S7. It was bad enough that he implicated himself in crimes he could’ve easily talked his way out of.
What possible reason would he have to stir up questions about the provenance of the dagger if he was the one who supplied it to the assassin? That’s basic Criminal 101: toss the weapon over a bridge or in the ocean. Don’t go parading around with it in front of your intended victim and his family.
Perhaps Qyburn gave LF a lobotomy sometime around the beginning of S5. Ever since the end of S4, none of LF’s “plans” made any sense.
zandru,
“Back to the attempted euthanizing of Brandon – how in the world could Littlefinger have learned, way back in King’s Landing, that Brandon Stark had fallen and was in a coma and needed to be killed? Much less sent someone way up to Winterfell with a dagger that belonged to, and was apparently in the possession of, King Robert? Only teleportation and some kind of omniscience would do it.”
——-
Exactly. Unless the dagger was flown from KL to WF suspended between two European swallows. Or was it African swallows?
Ten Bears, think about: “Chaos is a ladder.”
Cause chaos, see, what happens and play on it.
I think, African swallows. In Europe swallows build homes, breed and feed, they have no more time for anything else. In Africa they make holiday. Therefore they are relaxed and strong and can easiliy carry daggers and things. You would be astonished, what gifts they bring to us every new spring!
Clob,
Thanks for that Guardian interview link! Beautiful photographs of the Many-Faced Goddess.
I’m intrigued that in her last scene she’ll be “alone.” Wondering how they fits in with her #LastWomanStanding hashtag and bloody sneakers photograph a few weeks (months?) ago.
I wouldn’t mind terribly if her last scene – and the last scene of the show – parallels the final scene of S4 when she’s on the deck of the Braavos-bound ship. Although I want her to end up as Queen, I think she’d get aggravated with people sucking up to her all the time and calling her “Your Grace.”
Maybe the final scene of Game of Thrones will be Arya Stark on a ship going West of Westeros instead of East to Essos….
Ten Bears,
And yet, the only reason anyone found out about Littlefinger’s crime was because of Bran’s omnipresent powers, which there was no way Littlefinger could anticipate. There was no physical evidence linking him to the crime, and the northerners already thought the Lannisters were behind it. The dagger was a very valuable item that most teenage boys would kill to have, so Littlefinger tried to use it to win Bran’s favor. It worked for Robin, why not Bran?
Ten Bears,
I already answered that.
I hate to say that really none of it makes sense, but why would LF have the stupid dagger with him at all? Why didn’t anyone call Sansa out for her false-confession to the Lords of the Vale? Why didn’t anyone ask Bran why he didn’t speak up about LF until Sansa was ready to kill Arya? Why didn’t Bran warn Jon about the clear and obvious NK plot to get a dragon before Jon tried to capture a wight?
Oh: showing the wight hand to the Crown was a Jeor Mormont idea: Mormont had sent Thorne to KL with the remnants of the dead wight Jon had killed, but Tyrion had made Alliser wait too long due to a grudge, and the “dead hand” wasn’t animated by the time the Council got to see it. Not sure if D&D remembered that bit or not; it’s not easy to find the clip on YT, but the scenes are quite funny in ACOK.
Regardless, though, at this point in the show, everything is really coming off as Bran fantasizing about revenge. I’m half expecting him to wake up from a multi-year coma in the finale and everything be “set right” (no Others, no AotD, no dragons, etc), with possibly even a few token “dead” back (Sean Bean would be quite welcome!), and the audience left to wonder if Bran DID something to set the seasons right but never gets credit for it, or if Bran was just comatose the whole time. A twisty little “all just a dream” trope. (And last scene, we see NK’s eyes open again…)
I hate to say that really none of it makes sense, but why would LF have the stupid dagger with him at all?
It’s a rare and expensive item, which shows the prestige of the person who carries it. Baelish, the social-climber, is forever trying to show off his wealth, power, and connections. (To him personally, it’s a reminder of how he triumphed over the Starks, because it’s the dagger he held at Ned’s throat. A good-luck charm, if you will.)
Why didn’t anyone call Sansa out for her false-confession to the Lords of the Vale?
The only three persons in the Great Hall who knew were Baelish, Sansa, and Royce. The two of those three who actually commanded the armed persons there both wanted Baelish gone, so it didn’t matter what the third one said. (Also, nobody ever gave a flip about whack-job Lyssa.)
Why didn’t anyone ask Bran why he didn’t speak up about LF until Sansa was ready to kill Arya?
Because Bran wasn’t really into talking. He was still trying to process being the 3ER. Only the crisis coming to a head jarred him out of his confusion.
Why didn’t Bran warn Jon about the clear and obvious NK plot to get a dragon before Jon tried to capture a wight?
Again, Bran was (and is) still sorting out what his visions mean. And the NK’s plan was a real stretch anyway; he had no way of knowing for sure that Blondie would bring dragons north of the Wall to save the Magnificent Seven.
Not sure if D&D remembered that bit or not…
One of them specifically mentions it in a commentary short.
(Also, why does everyone insist on bragging about their awesome 20/20 hindsight about the wight hunt? Even Jaime was shocked that Cersei wasn’t taking the sight of actual undead seriously.)
I’m half expecting him to wake up from a multi-year coma in the finale and everything be “set right”…
A.k.a The Lathe of the Three-Eyed Raven!
Tensor the Mage, Who Has A Fond Memory Indeed of Meeting Ursula K. Le Guin,
Alright Tensor, I’ve got to ask: Don’t your comments get delayed in Moderation Purgatory each time you change what comes after “Tensor the Mage”?
Alright Tensor, I’ve got to ask: Don’t your comments get delayed in Moderation Purgatory each time you change what comes after “Tensor the Mage”?
Yes, my comments do get hung up sometimes. My short reply is, “that may indeed be a reason,” but my longer reply concerns my wonky relationship with technology, which causes so much trouble that my spouse calls it my “curse”. (I joke that I became a test engineer because I can break pretty much anything just by using it, no harmful intent required.) So I really don’t know if my ever-changing nym has anything to do with any hang-up of my comments.
I just like creating a new tag line for the same reason I comment here: it’s fun. I hope it amuses other readers, and I like to hint at what the body of my comment will contain.
I’m assuming Bran/NK have seen this dried ink before. At one point in defense of ep 6 I suggested that Dany’s quick flight to the Trap was due to a Bran intervention (send raven to snatch message from Quick Gendry and get Dany on her way).
Re: Alliser’s long stay at KL whilst the wight hand turned to dust S1/S2:
I absolutely must find that commentary!
I never had a problem with it because it was in the books (and a little more sinister). I thought Tyrion was running low on ideas and recalled Ser Alliser’s attempt to bring the dead the Crown, and cribbed Mormont’s idea (because really, who knows what may have happened if Tyrion hadn’t held a grudge!) Plus Jon, Davos, Daenerys, and everyone thought it was a smashing idea: take the dead to Cersei! And it worked: it got Dany to join the cause, and the Heroes really banging the war drums after what they’d witnessed. Lannister army or not, Jon felt strongly that the AotD was knocking. But sadly, it’s just too likely that without that venture up north, the AotD might have never breached the Wall. More of that “ink is dry,” I suppose.
I just can’t believe Bran/3ER is so dense. Not one curiosity about who Aunt Lyanna hooked up with, but lots of curiosity about his sisters. Come on Bran! BR/3ER kept Bran in early WF apparently to make Hodor a thing, and to reveal that “Jon is a Sand”, and that’s about where Bran’s “looking” ends? The “learning to see” bit just isn’t plausible for me. Stinks to high Heaven!
As far as I can recall, there is zero indication in the books that the catspaw dagger was ever in Baelish’s possession. He makes up the wager story on the spot when Cat shows it to him, taking advantage of an opportunity to sow further discord between the Starks and the Lannisters. The knife he holds to Ned’s throat in the books is just some random knife. While not 100% confirmed, it seems pretty clear that Tyrion’s deduction is correct: The VS dagger was one of many fancy weapons languishing in the royal armory, likely given as a gift to Robert or even some earlier king to curry favor. Joffrey, having access as crown prince, took a fancy to it and stashed it with his own playthings. And when Joff overhears his father say that it would be better for crippled Bran to die, Joff sees an opportunity to earn some approval from his distant Dad. The royal progress is only about halfway home at that point, so it’s not difficult for Joff to bribe some hanger-on to head back to Winterfell with the handy dagger. It’s not well-thought-out, but the spoiled prince is prone to acting on whims. And the timing works out.
Roberta Baratheon,
THIS!!! I feel like I could sit down for hours with this man and remain engaged completely.