HBO has just released a (one-minute) promo video featuring the Sand Snakes, Oberyn Martell’s three bastard daughters – speaking within the framework of the show canon, of course. Watch the video below to get better acquainted with the actors portraying them: Rosabell Laurenti Sellers (Tyene Sand, fighting with daggers), Keisha Castle-Hughes (Obara Sand, spear), Jessica Henwick (Nymeria Sand, whip).
Looking forward to Dorne, they nailed it with the choice of shooting locations, now I just hope we are going to like the story we are getting.
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Looks like MakingGameOfThrones.net is promising new content every day untill the premiere day. At least that’s what I’m getting from their article.
This should be a good thread.
Good video, though it tells us nothing new at this point 😉
I had hoped that the video would include at least a few seconds of footage directly from the show, and we’d at last get to see the Sand Snakes in action. Alas, that wasn’t the case. A missed opportunity.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
So edgy. Grow up.
EDIT: Oh, thankfully the comment was deleted.
Interview of the cast on a french TV
http://www.canalplus.fr/c-divertissement/c-le-before-du-grand-journal/pid6432-les-extraits.html?vid=1231075
I think there’s so much focus on the Sand Snakes pre-premiere
It seems like a smart strategy to me, promotional material-wise, but I’m sure some people will complain that
is getting shortchanged.
Yes, I hope that despite of the changes the story is consistent itself, I won’t care of them if they give an extra “something” to the show.
amayes94,
That interviewer’s crazy!
Greenjones,
Can’t access the interview for some reason. Anything interesting
Sue the Fury,
Yeap. Unfortunately, Doran is not very… marketable.
Charlie’s Angels ripoff – BORING!
More Brienne wandering pointless through Westeros please!!!
In before the ‘I’m worried about the SS portrayal in the show’ comments.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that Trystane Martell or Yezzan have not been included in any of the pre-season 5 material. Neither of the trailers or any of the behind the scenes material including the “Day in the Life…”. It just seemed a bit odd to me.
Luka Nieto,
Nope. Just an odd interviewer. It’s kindof funny, kindof creepy.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
You’re too late already.
Chris,
I don’t expect either of their roles to be very prominent, especially Yazzen. The same goes for Myrcella.
I hope I find more interest in all things Dorne within the show. Those character storylines are my least favorite in the books, including Quentyn’s.
Greenjones,
Except for Liam’s (Davos) comment about the need for prophylactics around Mel (in lieu of shadow babies being a danger to various relatives) and another re-glimpse of naked Nathalie/Missandei, I regret the click. Of course, I had to watch it again.
So cool…
Makes me think of World of Warcraft 3v3 arena battles…
You got your Rouge with the double daggers, your warrior with the spear and your hunter/mage (ranged attack) with the wipe.
Can’t wait to see these warriors in action!
Well this was nice, but I’d have preferred some in-universe footage — and particularly, some confirmation of who their mothers are in the TV version (I actually think it’s a great idea to make Nymeria half YiTish but I want confirmation on that; she might be Lengii).
The Dragon Demands,
I just wanna hear the Dornish characters speak! We’ve heard absolutely no lines from Doran, Ellaria, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene or Trystane —or Areo Hotah, Myrcella, Jaime or Bronn for that matter.
Hey guys, HBO Latin America is showing an alternate trailer for season 5, with a couple of new shots.
One is Dany entering to a dark chamber, follow by what it seems to one of the dragons shooting fire at her (same shoot we saw on previous trailers).
The other one is some wildlings running to get inside Hardhome. One of the wildlings looks back, looking really scared. By the angle of the camera, looks like something is chasing them.
Luka Nieto,
Mais oui! Apparently, Theon’s “Johnson” is on exhibition in a HUGE trunk and that makes Alfie very happy. Interviewer wanted to know if the Shadow Baby sequence is a warning to the youth of today to practice safe sex ~ look what can happen if you don’t! And the Interviewer wanted to know if Missandei would go out with him~ I think she said “yes ~ maybe”.
Here’s another interview (in English) with the Red Viper among others. Pedro looks so sleepy and sexy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YGTR8BCDTM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Balerion The Cat,
Hello, following you from another thread. There’s still a little clip (1 min 40 secs) from the 20 greatest moments programme on Sky Atlantic’s website http://www.sky.com/tv/show/game-of-thrones/video/greatest-moments You don’t need to be a Sky subscriber to view it (no logging in or anything) but it might be set up so it’s not viewable outside the UK. Gives you a flavour of it anyway :O)
The Dragon Demands,
By the way, Tyene is wearing the same necklace as Ellaria. Not that I think we need more confirmation that she’s Ellaria’s daughter, since it was announced as such, but still. There’s another ‘clue.’
I forget about Yezzan! Myrcella is absent as well…
Hodor’s Bastard,
Nathalie. 🙂
She’s worth me commenting just to say this. And the French guy’s right, she is the loveliest on the show, he should’ve just been less creepy about it IMHO.
Greenjones,
yeah, he’s soo creepy.
Thomas,
Thank god somebody else saw that alternative trailer! I was starting to think I was going mad. This is the trailer that I mentioned a few threads back with the shot of dany on a dungeon like place and with that nice shot from dorne. Now let’s hope it becomes available online soon.
Oh and cool video, but I wanted to hear their take on the dornish accent.
Even The Mountain is promoting seas 5?
Thomas,
Link?
Arthur,
Well, he is in Season 5 😉
What are Sand Snakes?
I would really like some Sand Snake dialogue more than this. A lot of this is going to hinge on if they can pull off the accent and their chemistry together.
Afeastfordances,
Well, the accent is kinda secondary, isn’t it? Pretty much none of the Lannisters share an accent, which makes no sense, yet most people seem to get past it. As long as it sounds vaguely Mediterranean, it’s fine. I’m more interested to see their… well, their acting, and how the characters are portrayed and written.
Me – I’m just wondering how D&D solved the Meereenese Knot. (not the one with Podrick but the one from the books). My guess their solution is :
Tereeza777,
Wow, cool link thanks!
New exclusive Sand Snakes footage! 😛
That video severely lacked Arianne Martell.
Jesterr223456,
Too late, kid. Too late.
Lulu’s Mum,
Thank you so much, it works! I wish Sky would make it available online for everyone, it’s a pity, because it seems like something GoT fans would enjoy. HBO always makes their GoT specials available online, because it helps in promoting the show, I don’t understand why Sky isn’t making it available now, it’s been some time since it first aired. Oh well, this is just my frustration, I really wanted to see it all!
SerDuncanTheTall,
At least for now they haven’t upload it anywehere, only the second trailer we all saw this week. They are only showing it on HBO along with the trailers of their other shows. But the user RandomSand has confirmed seeing it too, so i guess someone will post it eventually.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I think it’s official, TouchOfFrost, you have your own personal troll.
Lulu’s Mum,
Anyone else missing
??
That moment when they say the Martell words…..oooooooh. I’m in love.
And the lack of focus on Doran, to me, is two things:
–“Making Of” videos and trailers don’t generally lend themselves to shots of the guy sitting down, as he’ll be doing a lot.
–They want to, as Sue and others said, keep his role as “the grass” under wraps so it serves as a rousing twist moment.
–Because of that, the guy who works best as the “badass speechifying old dude” for the trailers is the High Sparrow.
Thomas,
That’s why i was Googling for the last hour and Didn’t find anything 🙁
TheTouchOfFrost,
TheTouchOfFrost,
They even have a snake…awesome!
Interesting, at least Obara seems to have a hard look
For mine though it will be hard to get over the groan I felt when they seem to have been cast as near carbon copies of eachother
The two words I’m likely to be saying is “High Sparrow”
Jonathon Pryce in that role is probably best disposed to filling the void left by Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister
Now, when I’ve seen the 3 snakes clip I’m sure that GoT should get a G rating (i. e. kids-in-mind rating).
Greatjon of Slumber,
Yes, when they said the House Martell words, I definitely got a little jolt. I really can’t wait.
I think the SS will attack like the velociraptors do in Jurassic Park. You see and focus on one, but the other two are waiting on the side, just out of view. You won’t even know what hit you.
mau,
Actually Myrcella is in the background of some of the shots at Sunspear in some of the behind the scenes videos. I remember her sitting on the couch as Jaimie is meeting with Doran and Ellira.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Not a problem. I teach 5 year olds all day so having an internet shadow that acts like one is just an extension of the job!
Patchface,
Plus they’re torturing a guy in the desert whilst being all female and fighty. GIRL POWER!
TheTouchOfFrost,
Ghost’s Lunch,
Uknow0,
I was right.
Needed more Arianne Martell and Elia Sand. Fingers crossed for a Season 6 appearance.
amayes94,
What the hell did I just watch?
Maester of Ceremonies,
Arianne is cut from canon, Trystane being the heir.
Elia, however, was even mentioned by name in Season 4, so who knows.
Maester of Ceremonies,
When they cut ‘Aegon’, they essentially cut Arianne. Now Ellaria and the SS have absorbed most of Arianne’s role from the books.
What ever happened to the last two segments of Sky’s Throne Cast for season 4?
Will we ever get to see them.
What if the Sansa storyline is just an all out
Luka Nieto,
Could just be a “Dornish” necklace in general, but let’s see how things play out…also I think Nymeria has a similar one as well.
Luka Nieto,
Yes, but in Season 2 when Tyrion is planning to ship Myrcella to Dorne, he says “she will marry the youngest son” Well if she is marrying Trystane, he can’t be the youngest son and heir at the same time, right?
For reminders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcK1O9MamN8
Topher Snow,
I’m aware. Obviously they hadn’t cut her yet three years ago.
That will remain an unfortunate mistake.
Topher Snow,
No, Trystane IS the youngest son of House Martell. Doran (and at the time Oberyn) are older sons of House Martell. I’m sure Quentyn and Arianne weren’t yet cut back in Season 2, but they worded it in a way which does not actually result in an inconsistency.
Luka Nieto,
If they need to explain it, they could say that there was an elder sibling, who then died for whatever reason.
Tibatonk,
Shit… you’re right!
I was sure it was an unfortunate inconsistency, but it isn’t. It’s vague enough that it doesn’t have to be. Tyrion doesn’t say “Doran Martell’s youngest son” but “House Martell’s youngest son.”
it is general expression…
“The youngest son of House Martell” …. It can mean Doran’s son or son of Dorne (Doran, Oberyn, Trystane)
Melisandre said in S2 that Selyse has given Stannis no sons( she doesn’t mention childrens.).. They left it open for a possible introduction of Shireen in S3… Bryan Cogman confirmed that…
In S2 they didn’t mention Thoros of Myr or Beric Dondarrion as BwB leaders.. because they didn’t know will they have time for both of them in S3…
There are a lot of similar examples…
Arthur,
Hear, hear.
Given that the character’s primary political tactic is to lull people into shortchanging him, that seems completely appropriate!
Well, that is assuming that the former is cut. He was never going to be on this season, as he doesn’t contribute anything important to the story or plot(s) for this season, and the show doesn’t introduce characters until they become relevant.
Arianne probably would have been cut or radically revised under any case. Quite frankly, had I been GRRM’s editor, then she never would have seen the light of day in the first place.
Luka Nieto,
Perhaps she will replace Sarella aka Allera with the reasoning that Allera sounds too much like Ellaria?! Because apparently the average viewer can’t handle Asha and Osha so that could make their heads explode!
I mean if Oldtown is even happening anymore?!
TheTouchOfFrost,
It’s not.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
The Obara and Sam look in more jeopardy this season!
No, it would just irritate people that the show is using nearly identical sounding names (like Asha and Osha are) for two characters when there is no reason to do so. Vowels sound a lot alike to many people, and it can get very difficult when people with different accents speak words that differ only by a vowel. The names themselves are irrelevant, so why not avoid obfuscating the tale?
As for Oldtown, I doubt that there ever will be a reason to include it in the show. I would be very surprised if it is ever relevant to any of the main characters or to the plotlines directly affecting them.
I’m not exactly sure why, but I can’t get excited about the Sand Snakes….even trying to put aside my dislike of KCH’s acting. Nym is quite beautiful, but they don’t make me want to know more. Hopefully that changes with an actual episode and storyline to watch. I’m more interested in Ellaria’s actions this season. Alexander Siddig is a favourite of mine, though he’s much more attractive than I pictured Doran to be. I may just be missing that spark that Pedro Pascal gave…..it would be difficult to match that bit of casting perfection.
It also would be inappropriate, wouldn’t it? However, we can tell nothing about “sparks” or anything like that from little samples like this.
For myself, I am not a fan of the Dorne plotline from the book. The SS do not mean much to me one way or the other (it was their cousin that I found dissatisfying). However, I think that we should not get too distracted by them: for all of the visual energy, the lead character in this setting is almost certainly going to be Jaime. The issue is how well they can tell Jaime’s story. (I suspect that it will be Doran who
Wimsey,
I’m sorry, but if that is enough to irritate people then they need to take a long hard look at themselves. The reason is, that is their given name. I’ve got a friend called Tim and a friend called Tom. Never once have their names sharing similar sounds been an issue.
TheTouchOfFrost,
ha ha. You know perfectly well that soft vowels can sound the same as each other and hard vowels can sound the same to a lot of people. Nobody needs to “take a look at themselves”: it is the job of the production team to cater to their audience. It is their job to do the work, not the audiences’ job to do any work. When you fork over as much money per month as people do for HBO, then it is the least that they can expect.
As for “that is their given names,” how is that at all relevant? These are fictional characters, and with rare exceptions the names are arbitrary. Particularly incidental and/or supporting characters like the Sand Snakes: their sole purpose is to push the lead characters into whatever situations GRRM (and B&W) need the leads to be in order to make a story happen.
Wimsey,
I think we have come to expect new locations every season in Game of Thrones and new characters its what keeps things interesting so Oldtown and maybe storm’s end for season 6. Then Casterly Rock for season 7 seems likely. Also Greyjoys for season 6.
Do you really think that any of these places will be important in Winter or Spring?
Now, I do expect new characters in Season 6, but I doubt that we’ll see any new characters of any importance in Season 7 (unless there are some White Walker individuals that are important in the end, and that do not appear this year or next). When shows know that they are doing a final season in advance, then they usually stop adding new characters of any note: indeed, they usually just recycle everyone and anyone who had been on the show before!
GRRM has said that there will not be any new PoV characters in the last two books, and the show did not add any of GRRM’s completely new PoV characters from Crows/Dragons. There are some incidental characters from Dragons who look like they will be very important to the plot of Winter, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn up. But none of that takes us to Oldtown. If it takes us to Casterly Rock or Storm’s End will depend on the plot machinations.
First of all, Hotah says “Hola”…. 🙂
There may not be any “new” PoV characters, but I sure as hell hope GRRM gives us a PoV of a certain
in TWoW.
Actually, I hope GRRM reverses that statement and does explore a few new PoVs for the last few books. Why limit himself if it works?
How fun would that be? 🙂
Wimsey,
Well i think season 6 we will be introduced to the greyjoy uncles as the big new casting announcement. Maybe randyl tarly, howland reed, manderly is still possible, sallera sand, wylla, some danyes?, some oldtown maesters. There will still be exciting casting moments for every season and Oldtown and Casterly Rock I think will be in the show as the last locations we havent seen. Definetly casterly rock its only mentioned once an episode. Oh and Highgarden “you must see highgarden!”
OK, sure: one cameo PoV chapter. Or did he get one in Crows as well? (I tried re-reading the book again recently and failed again!) If I recall, he was just used as a 3rd party for delivering Arianne’s storyline in Dragons: and I’m probably remembering his Crows chapter (if he had one there) as an Arianne chapter, too. I suspect that GRRM needed to make up for lost time given that he had to rapidly develop Arianne and then try to dynamically develop her. (All of the other major characters have had the advantage of having other major characters talk and think about them, but that wasn’t the case here.) So, putting in someone else to observe her and think about her did help tell us who she was.
I still doubt that is going to happen: I’m still betting that
But I don’t think that it does work. Insofar as I can see, the single biggest reason why people do not like Crows was the new PoV characters. They are all sort of like the new Glee members (who were basically all sacked after 2 years!) I really am not joking when I write that I find Crows unreadable: and it’s the new characters that I cannot read. And although the new PoV’s in Dragons were more bearable than those from Crows, I also did not see them making any novel contributions to the story.
At any rate, the final two stories really should be all about what the Big 5 decide to do when challenged with some Big Life Choices. (Well, that and Lannisters deciding to fight reality some more.) Watering down the narrative with new PoVs could undermine the story quite a bit.
No, Nathalie. Just say no.
Toby was hired for his look and has no acting experience. His part will be minimal.
Lucky for you, we have under 30 days to receive more promos.
Do not be one of those “I’m starting to get worry” people.
We shall see soon enough my friend.
Crabber’s Son,
Oh please oh please oh please oh please GIVE ME A DAYNE!!!
amayes94,
Well everyone, Ms. Emmanuel is available, yes (fist pump), so all you men and girls, get ready…set…and off you go a courting.
Have to agree with the interviewer, Nathalie is perhaps, well tied with the sexiest actor on GoT, of course Carice is the other.
I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I find it curious they switched Tyene and Lady Nym’s weapons. I am not troubled by the change, but I think it’s more to it than meets the eye.
In the books Lady Nym fights with blades, Obara with spear (she also has a whip), while Tyene’s expertise is poison. In the show, it looks like Tyene has twin blades, Obara spear and Nym a whip (plus a kukri dagger). My point is they could have kept Lady Nym with the blades and give Tyene the whip&dagger. Why the switch? The only reasonable explanation is that one of them will have a larger role to play in the future, which makes me think of
Any thoughts or further speculation, anyone? Am I reading too much into it?
Or two! Hear, hear! I’m still clinging to the idea of Sean Bean coming back for the ToJ scene.
Patchface,
I dont see much need to over analyse this. Book method to introduce Tyene´s poisonous nature is too subtle for TV (its all in Areo Hotah ´s head) and it would be difficult for her to be part of the fight scene without a weapon. Book Nymeria also doesnt use two huge poisoned double daggers so its not really a change, it is more an addition to Tyene character.
Wimsey,
With your obsession about “protagonists” i can only imagine how torturous reading of books 4 and 5 must have been for you….
GaiusB,
Thanks for your input, and you make a very good point with the introduction, but you misunderstood my main point… Why have they not kept Nym with 2 daggers and give Tyene the whip? Unless they already have set the story that includes only one of the two actresses in s6. Then again, maybe I’m over analyzing it.
Sue the Fury,
This x 1 000 000!
Plus having three sexy young women wielding weapons has to be a show marketing exec’s wet dream. Not that there aren’t others already on the show or that GoT isn’t pretty much marketing itself these days but I couldn’t see them pass up such a golden opportunity.
Or maybe it’s appeasement for the lack of another sexy female character whose name begins with A. Not that I mind myself but a lot of people seem to.
Patchface,
My guess would be a poisoned daggers works better then a poisoned whip. And that whip once is taken from Obara, it is more suitable for someone who is partly noblewoman from Essos then for the daughter of Oberyn and Ellaria.
Wimsey,
So the show producers should pander to people not being able to use English properly? If you don’t challenge the audience ( in many aspects) they will get bored and only those who would consume whatever you give them will remain ( look at Dexter, True Blood,etc). I honestly don’t think some people initially being unable to pronounce a character’s name properly will put them off watching a show let alone irritate them! What’s wrong with learning something whilst being entertained?! Again, may just be we have a different opinion on the viewers. I don’t think they need to be spoon fed nor are only interested in boobs and explosions. Tell a good story and people will watch…that’s how the show got successful in the first place.
It’s change for change’s sake. If there’s nothing problematic in the original character design it should be left alone. The key word should be ‘adapt’ and not ‘change’. The show has done some fine adapting but also some needless changing.
GaiusB,
Good point with poisoned daggers v. poisoned whip. To be honest I never thought of that.
TheTouchOfFrost,
In an ideal world you may be right, but the reality is different. The vast majority of viewers have not read the books and the show has a very large number of characters by industry standards and therefore, people tend to get confused by the names. It is a fact that Asha was indeed changed to Yara because of the potential confusion. Just as Wimsey said, they merely cater to their audience. Plus, don’t forget an important part of that audience is international, not necessarily native English speakers (myself included). And BTW, bewbs do increase the audience especially for a new show, as silly as that may sound.
I agree. Last point, native English speakers can’t agree how to pronounce ‘tomato’, how can TouchFrost expect international viewers would grasp the difference between Osha and Asha (as distinct characters), when that “O” can be pronounced in several different ways!?!?! Just look at “Petyr” controversy…
Nymeria Sand looks exactly like my mom. My mom must be Oberyns bastard child
Elmo Tully,
Your mom must be quite hot.
Luka Nieto,
Thats just wrong man. Shame on you
TheTouchOfFrost,
Yes, having loads of similar sounding names is so challenging. GRRM really is a genius.
Why does this bother you so much? If it’s a practically meaningless change, than it’s just silly and petty to complain about it. This moronic pedantry is the worst part of this fandom.
How does keeping “Asha” turn into a teachable moment? What does it teach? How does it benefit the intellectual state of the show’s viewers? Asha, Osha sound alike and are confusing. Also, no, you wouldn’t have “Tim, Tom” in a sitcom, for the same reason.
Patchface,
They can watch it with subtitles then! If I watched a show in a different language ( the excellent The Killing for example) I wouldn’t expect them to change names because of my inability to speak Danish!
It’s not as if this is complicated linguistics! It’s pronounching two very short names slightly differently. Most 5 year olds can do that. It’s basic phonics!
On the boobs point (or points!) is there any valid evidence of this? I know of no one who watches the show for nudity. If folks wanna see boobs or bums or willies or whatever then they should go and watch porn. If the nudity and sex is a tool being used to tell the story then that’s fine. But I honestly don’t thinkg the vast , VAST majority of people tune into the show to see some flesh.
Yivo,
Erm why are you attacking GRRM?!
That’s my exact point. It’s a meaningless change so why do it? There are more complicated names in the series that the audience has had no trouble with adapting to. The change itself doesn’t massively bother me, it’s the assumption that the standard viewer would be unable to differntiate between two characters with differently spelt and pronounced names! If a person is too lazy to learn the difference then I don’t see why the show should pander to them.
Maria,
Simple. It teaches people to correctly pronounce and blend sounds. Didn’t see anyone running out of the Hobbit screaming with rage when they were introduced to the dwarves so why would this be an issue?
Guess they could just do the whole show in text speak. It’s a slippery slope!
Um, no: not being able to hear differences between vowels has nothing to do with
Challenge them with character quandaries, not by obfuscating names that need not sound alike. This isn’t a challenge: it’s an obfuscation, and poor production.
There is nothing to be learned here: it is a fictional universe devoid of facts. The only thing to communicate are the stories: and what someone is called has no bearing on that. (And if people want to learn things, well, that is what the History Channel, the Science Channel, etc., are for. For example, anyone watching those knows that birds are a type of dinosaur, for example….)
That is close to what I keep saying: you are the one who keeps saying that story is boring and that you only want world-building! However, what I also write is: tell the story well. Part of telling a story well is being clear in the presentation. Using similar sounding names for two characters unnecessarily muddles the presentation.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Again, in an ideal world you may be right, but what you are saying it’s unrealistic. Think about what I said about “tomato”, it is pronounced differently by native speakers and it refers to the same thing. Similarly, Asha may be pronounced distinctly by the actors (who BTW have fairly diverse backgrounds) and it may very well converge with some variants of Osha. To expect the audience (even native speakers) to immediately distinguish between Asha and Osha based only on bloody phonetics, and not be confused is quite simply unrealistic (especially given the number of characters on the show- hell, most people won’t even remember Aemon’s or Slynt’s names, as distinct as may sound).
If you are still not convinced , well there is empirical evidence to this very point. GRRM spells Littlefinger’s name as “Petyr” and he was surprised when people pronounced it differently than “Peter”!
As for international viewers, subtitles are not available everywhere (I speak from experience here), and even if they were I prefer not to use them so I can maintain my English skills to a decent level (sorry for my language mistakes BTW).
I won’t comment further on the bewbs, there is a reason why most new shows have a fair amount of nudity in the beginning to attract a wider audience, and the amount of nudity generally decreases with each passing season once a core audience is established.
Wimsey,
I pretty much agree with everything you said.
I was wondering about the same thing. 🙂
The real point is, there are no “teachable” moments in a fictional show. This has always been a dividing point among fans of books when those books are adapted to TV or film. One school holds that if the story is well-adapted, then the viewers should be able to pass a literature exam with questions written around that story. Another school holds that if the story is well-adapted, then the viewers should be able to pass a history exam with questions treating the source as true history. The adaptations that are both popular and critical successes always succeed in the former, not the latter.
Wimsey,
Well it kind of does. What if we removed all the character’s accents from the show because some folks can’t understand them? I don’t know whether its because I’m used to a varity of accents (or at least the accents from the show) because I’m European and (from the majority of Americans I’ve had the pleasure to meet) US folks don’t seem to have as much of an ear for them but exposure to different languages and pronounciation is a good thing.
I honestly struggle to see how anyone with a basic grasp of English can find the difference between an a and an o that confusing! Even if they did it’s something they’d overcome within a couple of episodes.
I disagree. People can learn a lot from stories, especially those like GoT that take influence from and address similar issues that are present in the real world and it’s history. Subtle learning can be just as effective as focused.
When have I ever said the story is boring. I think Dany’s story is stagnating but then again it did in the books! No major criticisms with the rest of the stories being told! Guess we’re going to have to agree to disagree as they say as I’d prefer shows not be dumbed down to appeal to the masses. It’s something that would not have bothered 99% of the audience. If they like the show they wouldn’t let a couple of mistakes in pronouncing character names put them off.
Patchface,
There wouldn’t be confusion as the characters don’t interact with eachother. Heck, people were getting Bronn and Yoren (oooo they sound a bit similar!) and even Jon, Rob and Theon mixed up in the first couple of episodes but as the character gets more exposure they learn them and their name.
So should he have spelt it the way everyone spells it? He’s deliberately used Old English, Scottish and Nordic influenced names to give the characters more unique and memorable names. If he was called Peter he wouldn’t have been half as unique! Going off on a tangent but…I find it interesting that Petyr appears to be a mix of pet (tamed animal from Northern Old English) and Adlyr ( which means eagle in Old English) so there’s certain links there to House Arryn and Petyrs house/ role is subservitude to them. Anyway , I digress!
Certainly wouldn’t criticise anyone who can speak any sort of language besides their native tongue ( you certainly type very competently in English!). I speak Spanish and German quite poorly but wouldn’t expect a show in either of those two tongues to focus on my inability to speak them well enough to understand every word they may want to use.
Tyene seems to be wearing a poison amulet necklace. There is a little blue vial. Ellaria wears something similar.
I don’t like to think what it might eventually be used for.
Wimsey,
There are moments in a work of fiction that force you to empathize, consider motives, consequences, etc. Jaime is a good one for that. Is killing Aerys justified? You can write an essay on that, and while doing that, you’d have to consider oaths, oath breaking, whether a mad man deserves a death sentence, how you might have acted in his position, etc. It’s a teachable moment. Asha-Osha is not a teachable moment.
Well, what would be “taught” from this is how to contrast the moralities of different characters. For example, Ned Stark and Barristan Selmy fought on opposite sides during a war. Moreover, we later learn thta Barristan Selmy knew that his side was supporting a madman king who was destroying their kingdom. Yet both men hold the man who killed that king in contempt. Why? Because, their moral code holds that once you vow to serve someone, then you serve them blindly and unswervingly, no matter how bad that someone is. In other words, in their morality, “I was following orders” not only justifies what you did, you cannot justify “I disobeyed the order.” After all, ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die, etc.
Ultimately, that is all that modern fiction can “teach” us. Modern fiction represents thought experiments about what charactesr do when put into moral and even ethical gray zones. (Asimov’s Zeroeth Law is probably the best example in the SciFi/Fantasy world.) SoI&F is no different: GRRM revels in putting the protagonists into situations where they seem to have two “right” or two “wrong” choices in front of them, or situations where Commandment 5 says that half of the deed is moral and Commandment 8 says that the other half is immoral.
However, it obviously cannot teach anything about “absolute” truths (sorry, Tolkien!) because there is no universal morality. Most moralities put lots of exemptions into “Thou Shalt Not Kill.” Basic things like polygamy vs. monogamy are immoral in some codes, moral in others, and simply ignored in the rest. Einstein was absolutely right: there is nothing “divine” about human moralities, and it has been demonstrated that they reflect the conditions in which the people who invented the moralities lived.
For the 50th time, grasp of English or any other language has zilch to do with it. Here are two true statements. 1) My command of English language is outstanding; 2) I cannot tell the difference between soft vowels most of the time any more than a color-blind person can tell the difference between some shades of red and green. Why? For all the fact that I have a veritable thesaurus and grammar check in the Wernicke’s area of my brain, I also have 50 year old ears. Vowels have been sounding the same to me for over a decade: and no amount of “listening” is ever going to change that: in fact, the opposite actually is the case!
Now, keep in mind that the typical viewer of this show is a male in his early 40’s. By that point, hearing acuity is going down: and things like similar sounding vowels are the first things to get lumped. This was something that they knew about when doing stage performances long ago: it was very old news when TV originated. Thus, TV shows have never taken chances on two names that might be confused.
Ultimately, the big difference is what you believe a “sophisticated” audience wants and/or can handle, and what a sophisticated audience really demands. This is a highly sophisticated audience: and they demand the same thing from their entertainment as they do from the rest of their world. And that means: don’t dilute the message. What you call “dumbed down,” they call “unprofessional production.” Developing tertiary characters out of proportion to their role in the tale dilutes story because, to a very real degree, a character’s contribution to a story is proportional to his/her “lead” time in a tale. In the books, Jon/Dany/Tyrion are huge chunks of the tale and therefore of the story, and they are developed proportionally. Much of what is left goes to Arya/Sansa/Bran/Theon, then Jaime/Cersei/Davos/Brienne/etc.. Developing secondary or incidental characters nearly as much as one of those gives the false illusion that said character is as important to the story as one of those: and then when that character fails to amount to anything, this audience will recognize “WTF was up with that?” They aren’t allowed to do that in their jobs, and they don’t want people that they are paying for a product to do that, either.
And if they want to learn something, well, they switch on a different channel. That’s not why HBO exists (except possible for “Last Week’s News”).
Been following this Asha/Osha thing, and, as an unsullied, I have just one question: does the name Asha have any significance in the book beyond the fact that it is the character’s name? It’s more out of curiosity than anything because I can’t understand why changing it to Yara (to distinguish it from Osha or for any other reason) is of any concern. If Jamie’s name was changed to Daryl, it’d not make a lick of difference either. Or if Jon was called David. And on and on. There’s obviously no reason to change those names, but a change here or there to eliminate confusion, particularly among the secondary and tertiary characters is, I would argue, helpful.
Viewers can certainly distinguish between like sounding names, the most obvious example being Tyrion and Tywin (which, in my experience, people interchange by accident all the time). But those names being similar seems to serve a very specific purpose — namely that Tywin and Tyrion are quite similar even if Tywin would not like to think so. Asha and Osha have literally no such relationship and sound similar (and frankly look like they’d be pronounced the same way). Why not change one of the names to make them simpler to distinguish in your mind?
I dont buy their supposed bad ass-ness!
Im sure these ladies are fine actors but do they look like warriors? Nah!
They couldve done better casting! Ton of athletic female acgors out there!
Wimsey,
I still don’t see how this is an issue with Asha and Osha? Both are spelt phonetically using short vowels. There are no soft vowels or long vowels present in either of them. Unless English isn’t your native tongue and soft vowels are more prevalent? Not having a go but I honestly can’t see how this is a problem as I could give these words to 5 year olds in my phonics lessons and they’d be able to pronounce them. I’m only a half a decade or so off 40 myself and still don’t have any problems differentiating between them. Is it some sort of regional problem?
Still don’t agree with you that being able to afford HBO makes a viewer sophisticated. I think the average viewer can handle more detail in lesser characters quite easily. It can only affect te main character if it’s not done well. If they’re already relating watching a show to doing a job then they’re approaching entertainment from the wrong direction!
They want to learn what happens to a character and the result of their actions. People always want ot learn, it’s just what form that leanrning takes.
The Asha Osha change, whichever, used to annoy me to no end because I was so into the story and wanted the character to have the same damn name. However, having forgotten much of asoiaf and reading Asha Osha here next to each other is more confusing than hearing it spoken. 75% of the letters are the same and the remaining 25% are very similar. It’s arithmetic.
slimchicken,
In answer to your question, while I may have missed something, as far as I know, no, her name being Asha has no significance beyond it just being her name. Of course, This is just one person’s opinion, but I’ve not understood the hubbub about the name change. I’ve read the books, and it has never bothered me.
Rygritte,
TheTouchOfFrost,
book!Asha > show!Yara
show!Osha > book!Osha
My two cents.
Hodor’s Bastard,
I’d agree with that.
No that fussed about the name change just think the reasoning behind it is a bit weak. Plus I prefer Asha as a name. Sounds more solid and not as odd as Yara.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Yara, a common enough name, sounds more odd to you than Asha?
Wimsey,
That there are no absolute truths doesn’t nullify the ability to learn. Any situation that encourages a reader or a viewer to put together a reasoned argument is a moment of learning.
Luka Nieto,
Asha just sounds cooler. Maybe because it has ash in it! Yara has yar in it…which may be a bit too pirate even for Ironborn.
Some interesting little snippets there. Listening to Joe Dempsie speak makes me wonder if Gendry will kind of take the place of
. Although he’ll need more than just him and a couple of oars if he’s going to do it….