To whet your appetite before the season eight premiere tomorrow, Sophie Turner and Nathalie Emmanuel look back on their long Game of Thrones journeys and tease the roles Sansa Stark and Missandei of Naath respectively will play in this final season.
Harper’s Bazaar published a beautiful feature with Nathalie Emmanuel, where the actress looks back on how she began on the show: “I had told my agent a few times: ‘I need to be in that show!’ But until [a casting call came out for a ‘non-white female aged 18 to 23′ to play a small part called Missandei], the likelihood of them casting someone who looks like me felt pretty slim. But when I saw the breakdown I thought, ‘That’s me!’”
“When it came to character work it was kind of difficult,” she says of her first days. “Because, in the books, Missandei is only nine years old. She is described as a very quiet, very still person. Kind of timid. But I didn’t really want that for her. I thought: ‘She has survived so much, so much horror, but underneath there’s this impenetrable strength.’ So at first, I created a person who was very contained. Then I got to play with the subtleties of her coming out of that, and having more freedom to think and feel.”
Missandei has come a long way from her reserved ways in season three, developing on her own and alongside Grey Worm, but her loyalty to Daenerys has been a constant. Will this hold in season eight? “I think it is very safe to say,” Emmanuel teases, “that the war is here for Daenerys, and Missandei marches right beside her, all the way.”
Head to Harper’s Bazaar for the original interview, including a wonderful video portion. She discusses the role of women in Game of Thrones, the wrap party, and more.
“Sansa this season is very much enjoying becoming a leader in her own right and the leader of Winterfell,” Sophie Turner tells James Hibberd at Entertainment Weekly, “and this year there are certain challenges of people who come into her life that threaten that. She has to go behind a few backs and risks tearing apart her family.”
“Her relationship with Jon is struggling because he’s so clearly in love with Daenerys and believes in her completely,” she elaborates. “Sansa thinks she’s power-hungry and not the rightful queen. There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.”
Tiresome conflicts aside, Turner talks about her good friend and cast mate (and soon maid of honor) Maisie Williams, with whom she doesn’t plan on parting ways any time soon despite the end of Thrones: “We’ve more been talking about what can we do together. We’ll probably end up writing scripts and producing things together. I don’t think we’ll never work together again. The saddest part is I don’t get to be Sansa, she doesn’t get to be Arya, and we don’t get to interact on that level — which is sad because their relationship is a big part of who Maisie and I are. That’s going to be the saddest thing. I won’t see Maisie in her costume anymore, I won’t see Kit in his costume anymore. I won’t be able to be in my costume. We won’t get to play these characters.”
I think we will all miss that too, alongside with… everything else!
#TOMORROW #ForTheThrone
“Sansa this season is very much enjoying becoming a leader in her own right and the leader of Winterfell,” Sophie Turner tells James Hibberd at Entertainment Weekly, “and this year there are certain challenges of people who come into her life that threaten that. She has to go behind a few backs and risks tearing apart her family.”
“Her relationship with Jon is struggling because he’s so clearly in love with Daenerys and believes in her completely,” she elaborates. “Sansa thinks she’s power-hungry and not the rightful queen. There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.”
———
Narrator: …”And the contrived internecine drama that started in Season 6 continued into the final season, with the fandom whinging in unison.”
Sansa, going to start the Dany and Jon tension huh?
Did you guys see the new opening sequence on Carices Instagram?
“ There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.”
This has got to be an exaggeration, surely? How much time are they going to have to argue constantly if the AOTD battle happens in episode 3? I doubt they’re going to assign the majority of episodes 1 and 2 to Jon and Sansa fighting – not with everything else going on (particularly Jon’s parentage reveal and what that is going to do to his and Dany’s interactions). I doubt they’d sideline the political and dramatic fallout that that reveal will have just to show us yet more forced arguments. I hope not!!
When Sophie says Sansa goes behind people’s backs and risks tearing her family apart… that’s interesting. What could that be? Politicking with the other northern lords to usurp Jon and make her queen in the north? Again, how much time is she going to have to actually do any of this? As I have said before, by the time Dany and Jon arrive, news that the fall has fallen must have reached them. If they aren’t happy to see the thousands upon thousands of Unsullied and Dothraki warriors and the two enormous dragons and instead focus on the forced strife, it’ll be a continuation on a dramatic theme that I really haven’t enjoyed these two past seasons.
Those Sophie comments are worrisome indeed. If the AotD arrive in 803 and 801/802 are the shortest episodes of the season, how much manufactured drama can exist?
I would say be prepared for a lot of Sansa hate on the internet IF she does start stirring things up, backstabbing and complaining about her position in an annoying manner like S6.
If y’all are really still worried about Sophie’s comments, especially after so many other exaggerative accounts, I have a message for you. Sophie is known to say…. quite outlandish things and she magnifies certain plotlines that are actually quite muted. Wasn’t she the same individual who teased lots of conflict between Sansa and Jon last season? And look how that ended up going…… Jon ended up leaving in episode two and never even went back to Winterfell.
Nathalie is awesome! I hope she gets some meaty scenes to wrap her story.
The Others can take Sansa. Seriously, though, if this drama doesn’t end once Sansa sees the Army Of The Dead, then I don’t know what to say. It would be dumbfounding. Contrived doesn’t even begin to describe it.
Why Jon is a better leader than Sansa/Cersei reason #5091
He let the Wildlings in to save everyone. He walked into a dangerous situation with a powerful queen not once but twice in order to make alliances to save everyone.
He sacrificed his personal happiness on multiple occasions, and kept going even after he’d been betrayed to death. Why? That’s right. To save everyone.
But Cersei, who was finally flush with the Iron Bank goes into debt again and allies with the grossest Greyjoy in history for an army to keep her on throne instead of helping fight in Great War.
And Sansa? She’s just loudly and vocally unhappy with every single thing Jon has done since they’ve gotten back together, because she wants to be in charge.
I don’t think they’re really seeing the bigger picture here. This is not the time to go behind backs and tear families apart. Hopefully that’s just a one episode hiccup and then she sees a white walker and gets her head on straight.
Ten Bears,
“Narrator: …”And the contrived internecine drama that started in Season 6 continued into the final season, with the fandom whinging in unison.”
LOL!! GRRM did create Sansa to be the thorn among the blue Stark roses. He needed more conflict because the family was so loving. For television, D&D have to emphasise it; the first thing scenario writing classes tell you is–conflict, conflict, conflict. Sansa always acts for herself first, so going after what she wants is natural. In 1.01 she begged Catelyn to get Ned to let her marry Joffrey, saying that being queen was all she ever wanted. So, yes, without intending harm she will do what’s needed to obtain her goal. Maybe its QitNorth now, not Westeros. I’m grateful the sisters are finally reconciled, but I hope she doesn’t pull Arya into her angst and suspicion, much less her plotting. Arya should start off with her own concerns about Dany, but will decide early on. It sounds like at least until Winterfell is assaulted, Sansa will be causing trouble. Ironically, she had told Arya that Cersei would be glad to see them fighting. If Qyburn gets word of unrest among the Starks and thus the alliance, Cersei will celebrate with a whole bottle of the best vino in the Red Keep.
She’s making crap up. They probably have one argument. A beaten down and exhausted group of people with the Army of the Dead bearing down on them, and anyone at all will be mad that Jon secured an alliance with the strongest queen in the world with an enormous army and dragons, all fresh and ready to fight? This is their salvation. You do absolutely whatever you have to do to secure that help and he did. Last season literally ended on Sansa stronger than ever because she united with her family, standing on the battlements quoting Ned saying the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. After Jon had already told her he bent the knee. And she decides a week later to go lone wolf anyway? Come on. There’s no way. You can’t keep undercutting character arcs with six episodes left. I don’t buy it and Sophie needs to stop stirring the pot with her childish head canon.
Che,
Maybe Sansa will join Team NK out of spite. 🧟♀️
RG,
“This is not the time to go behind backs and tear families apart. Hopefully that’s just a one episode hiccup and then she sees a white walker and gets her head on straight.”
_______
Minor revision….
This is not the time to go behind backs and tear families apart. Hopefully that’s just a one episode hiccup and then she becomes a white walker and gets her head on straight.
Adam,
Why “literally?”
Well, we left off season 6 with Sansa stating that “only a fool would trust Littlefinger” and she proceeded to let him manipulate her for another season, so I would be the least bit surprised if Jon and Sansa continue the tedious squabbling in season 8.
I really hope not though.
Write and produce a show about Sansa and Arya after the events of the show.
Problem solved.
Yes, hopefully Sansa gets to kill that overrated mary sue Jon or at least usurp him. She’s gonna have a hard time doing it because of his thick plot armor and all the jon cheerleaders surrounding her but I believe in her to end him and his toxic misogynistic fans once and for all.
Fighting between Sansa and Jon is anything but contrived, people just don’t like it because they fantasies about the wonderful happy family of Starks for years
If anything it would be contrived for Sansa to not be upset that Jon has bent the knees against her wishes. But that goes against the wish fulfilment fans crave
Ugh, whatever. Sophie’s said this for 3 years in a row. A “huge amount of fighting” will be one scene. 🙄
I honestly thought Missandei would be an early casualty on the show. I’m still convinced she is Dany’s third betrayal (for love) in the books though..
Are they planning on just having Bran sit there and not say anything? That’s why this entire “drama” is nonsensical and a waste of time. Bran knows exactly what is coming and can tell everyone. Not just that, but if you remember even last season in the episode where Jon gets the raven from Sansa telling him Bran and Arya are alive it also featured news that The Night King is on the move.
So what is the point of this then? If they are aware of the looming threat, and Bran can fill them all in even further, then why in the world would Northerners think Dany is in Winterfell because she is “power hungry”?
Drama in fiction is good. Fake drama for the sake of drama is not so good, and that is what this sounds like.
orange,
I’m confused about the point you’re making here. They know there’s a massive army coming. That doesn’t mean life and peoples emotions totally stop
orange,
We don’t know if any of “this” will actually happen so why start labeling anything until we’ve seen the premiere at least.
costello,
Yeah and they also know exactly why Jon Snow went to get her as he told them before leaving. So are they going to act confused when she shows up with her army?
Edward,
What am I labeling?
I think like many have expressed above, I am inclined to take Sophie’s comments with a generous pinch of sodium chloride. It probably amounts to some tension in a few scenes at most, which if done properly, would make sense. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.. Naturally it does fit that both Sansa and Arya would have reservations about Jon’s love for Dany, him handing the North over to her, and on top of that his true parentage. I just really hope they work through it in a non-contrived way, and stick to believable character motivations. Whatever happens though, I don’t expect this will win Sansa many points in the fandom..
costello,
The Jon snow fans think everyone should worship him and follow him blindly. I mean they were so angry at Maisie for saying that Arya wouldn’t be jon snow cheerleader Number 5 cause how dare she go against infallible jesus snow. They also used to hate Dany and only stopped when she became his girlfriend. Never have I seen a more toxic or misogynistic bunch
OT: Has someone already posted a link to this screamingly funny BritBox ad?!
Sophie didn’t seem to film very much at all this last season so likely the drama won’t go past episode 2, I hope not anyway. She’s not a fighter so I’ll be surprised if we see her much after the war starts. She wasn’t in Martin’s original story arc so I doubt she’s that important to the end game other than to say she survived – assuming of course that she does. Arya on the other hand filmed almost as much as Kit did by all accounts so hopefully we’ll see her training pay off in a big way.
costello,
Being angry at Jon for doing everything to secure an alliance with a person who has a huge army, access to dragonglass and fire breathing dragons, the things needed to defeat the White Walkers and Wights is contrived. Especially if she sees it with her own eyes and continues to whine about it.
Drama between them is fine. Feeling like Jon usurped her birthright is fine. Complaining about Jon aligning the North with their only chance at salvation even after she sees the AOTD makes zero logical sense.
Nariman,
You take this stuff way too seriously. Painting everyone who question Sansa’s actions in the show as misogynistic Jon fans is immature and ridiculous. Particularly when there are probably an equal number of women voicing their frustration with the way Sansa is acting.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
woman can be misogynistic too, and hating a female character because she doesn’t worship a male character while liking other female characters just because they worship him is misogyny. Any way I’m out
Nariman,
It’s a rather broad statement to automatically assume one has to be either “misogynistic” or “toxic” to question a potential writing decision on a fictional TV show. Just a tad bit hyperbolic don’t you think?
Check out this hilarious short film about a couple’s Game of Thrones watch party! https://youtu.be/lYmBpvrKEDk
Wolfish,
LOL !!!!! That was fantastic and so clever. A real treat! Thank you for posting!
kathy,
Sophie hasn’t filmed for more than a few weeks, cumulatively, in any season since Season 4, but Sansa always has a lot of screentime. Her scenes generally don’t take that long.
As far as these comments go, Sansa is pretty obviously going to be pushing for Jon to take the throne over Daenerys, since that’s been a foreshadowed conflict. How much time is dedicated to that, no idea.
I just wanted to post a little side comment that relates to the article in a small way. This is my opinion of Arya’s reaction to the possible conflict in season 8 , based on the facts of the past 7 seasons. Not just season 1. First, GRRM threw the original outline in the garbage in the early 1990’s, I believe. So all and any information from that outline is irrelevant. 2nd, GOT is made up of 8 seasons, not just season 1. Based on the facts only, by the end of season 7, Arya and Sansa are part of the same pack and they are working together. They understand and respect eachother and Sansa knows who Arya is now, not just when she was 6 years old. 3rd, Arya isn’t wuss. She is a trained assassin who knows how to READ THE TRUTH behind the facade. No one will influence her. She draws her own conclusions and I have a feeling some viewers won’t like what she sees.
What do you think Missandei’s fate will be? Either her or Grey Worm will die and I think it’ll be GW.
kathy,
Although Sansa has not been the main in an original storyline some 25 years ago, in the books and the show we have, she indeed has the role of a main character (alongside 5 others). Sansa is important not only because she is in position where she can obtain a powerful unharmed army, but also the food that Vale has been stockpiling, IN TV show, she became Lady of Winterfell and it would be wrong to assume she accounts for nothing.
That said, I do believe Ms Turner is being a bit outlandish here. They simply have no time to do the proper conflict and resolution. It is normal to expect some friction, it would be crazy for it not to happen. It is also normal for Sansa to question Jon’s motives here because, let’s face it, Jon’s head over heels for Dany. I hope we see Dany and Sansa having a conversation and sorting this out. I would suggest that Sansa is currently the only person aware of Cersei and that may prove to be a significant thing.
In all sincerity, Sansa is not power-hungry monster and I was always puzzled by people’s views on her as one. I believe that in Seasons 6 and 7 she wanted some freedom, independence and yes, power to protect herself and those she loves. Her disagreements with Jon never came to me as her undermining him, but more of having different opinions and strategies (and even priorities! Who can tell Sansa was wrong to be cautious of Cersei after the Great Council).
I really hope to see Sansa and Dany joining forces because that duo may prove to be deadlier than any other.
Sean C.,
You writing the book on Sansa or something?
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Nariman,
Yeah, I’m a woman with no hero worship issues, and that feels a little harsh. I’ve just been watching the show, seen Jon’s motivations and what he’s trying to do, so yeah, I’m rooting for the guy who is putting his life on the line for the living and a little frustrated with the misogyny talk when Jon is actually one of the most straightforward feminists on the show. lol
He respects women. He gave Arya needle in one of first episodes, he loved and fought beside a female warrior, he allied with another, and bent the knee to a queen. When it comes to Sansa, he’s done even more.
He went to address Northern Lords, asked Wildlings for help and nearly died again in battle because Sansa asked him to.
He never left her out of any meeting or planning.
He stopped beating Ramsay so Sansa could kill him herself, and he didn’t rage at her like I would have after he’d lost all those men with a battle plan made when he was not aware of the giant additional army they had at their disposal.
He told all the Northern lords that the women needed to learn to fight too, despite their arguments.
He gave her the master suite in the castle and put her in charge of the entire North when he left.
In no way has he taken away any of her authority or autonomy, he’s just asked her to respect his experience and decisions as well. I get that Sansa has trust issues, but I think he’s proven he’s not trying to take anything from her.
Yes, he’s bringing in a Targ queen with dragons, because he said before he left that they needed to make alliances to fight the white walkers and even if he hadn’t bent the knee or had boat fun, they would have had to come to Winterfell at some point if they’d agreed to join the fight.
To me, it seems reasonable to hope she’d maybe cut him a little slack.
Nariman,
Okay. Because that’s clearly not true, maybe it’s best not to engage you on these opinions of yours. These are fictional characters. Maybe try and remember that before throwing out blanket statements about actual people.
Same here.
Well we are on the internet. Assuming terrible things is quite common on the www.
I agreed with a lot of what you said about Sansa (particularly about her not being a power-hungry monster), but this I disagree with. When Tyrion and Jaime arrive, they will be the ones with more knowledge about Cersei than Sansa could hope to have (especially Jaime with what her current status and plans are and Tyrion in how she thinks and what she’s capable of – I think the jury is still out as to whether she has tricked him at all or whether he is aware or even complicit).
Nariman,
Wtf. Why is being pro Jon mysonystic?
I will say I think Sans is mostly right when comes to jon and Sansa conflicts but this is just pure bullcrab what you are saying. Very black white thinking of you.
orange,
I think endgame is the point. Everybody against Dany. Poor Dany. 🙁
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Dany said she would help even if he didn’t bow to her. Bowing to her made the north lose faith in Jon. She is right. Jon should have bowed AFTER the ww were defeated. Not before.
Dany will be the casualty for that choice.
Interesting comments from Sophie, I expect some anger from the Northern Lords as well, but only in episode 1, they will have to (at least temporarily) put that to one side when the WW arrive. They are even letting Jaime fight for them so its all hands on deck. I wonder if they really understand the threat they are facing, like Dany they will have to see it.
I think it’s understandable, Jon bent the knee without telling anybody, there will be some shock at that. They didn’t want him to go South at all, and tbh I don’t know why he bent the knee in the end, she didn’t seem that bothered about it and had already agreed to fight. Plus he doesn’t really know much about her as a ruler, will he like her idea of justice? I don’t think so, and yet according to Sophie, he believes in her completely. It doesn’t make much sense to me, but I didn’t like their romance so my reservations are part of that.
Y’all know better than taking Sophies statements seriously.
Remember months of teasing this “conflict” between her and Jon, only to have it last 1 episode. She had more lines in season 7 talking about grain supplies than Jon.
It’s hardly contrived: it’s the heart of every GoT story! And it also is a big difference between character dramas and fairy tales: in the former (just as in real life), all parties in an alliance are always maneuvering so that when the mutual enemy is defeated, that party is first among “equals.”
That stated, once the mutual enemy comes into plain view and then while that mutual enemy is undefeated, the intra-ally conflicts receive low priority.
Cersei would not care that Jon is a better leader: she is much more interested in being a better ruler than Jon. If anything, the someone like Cersei would see Jon’s leadership skills as a potential liability to be exploited and thus a liability to ruling.
Sansa is tough to call. As much as Sansa hates Cersei, Sansa is very much influenced by Cersei. Sansa has seen Jon rise through leadership: but a part of her must feel that the traditions of rulership are more important than that. Littlefinger might be dead, but his whisperings will linger.
Nariman,
Where the hell are you bringing this shit from? I’ve read and participated on this site every day since it started and there certainly hasn’t been very much of that around here. It’s either been a couple people now and then, you exacerbate small remarks to fuel your anger or you spend a lot of time reading on a site called “jonsnowisgod” or something. In any case I believe your comments are off base HERE.
Mladen,
Eh, f*ck it. If Emilia Clarke invited me into her stateroom I’d betray my country in a heartbeat.
Yes and no. Yes, they are “muted” within the overall story and plots; no, they are not huge exaggerations of the part of the story to which Sansa contributes & the plotlines that involve Sansa. What some fans forget is that when Turner or any other actor talk about GoT or any other production, he/she is talking about the parts in which he/she was filming. This is not like some secondary school musical where all the actors not on stage are in the wings: Turner will have only second hand accounts and some times even no accounts of the material that does not involve her.
So, yes, take it with a big grain of salt: Turner is giving us a slightly exaggerated summary of the material that involves her. And, let’s face it: that’s the stuff of biggest concern to her! But just keep in mind that she’s the #6 character on the show, too…
Wimsey,
She is definitely influenced by Cersei, she couldn’t help but be. I think in looking at the series as a whole, when you see what events and people influenced each of the Stark children, their characters make more sense.
Arya: Syrio, Yoren, Jaquen, Brotherhood, Hound, FM = she’s been training to fight and kill this entire time while still being moderately protected. What do we say to the god of Death?
Jon: Tyrion (a Hand twice), Lord Commander Mormont, Sam/Aemon (Maester), Mance (king), Davos (a Hand twice) = He’s been in one long leadership seminar with a constant helping of white walker danger.
I’d also like to point out his intel and decisions have constantly been doubted by everyone and he’s had to prove himself over and over again. From NW to now.
Bran: Luwin (Maester), Jojen (greenseer), 3 Eyed Raven=that’s pretty self explanatory
And Sansa: Cersei ( power is power, trust no one), LF (knowledge is power, trust no one), Joffrey (this is why you shouldn’t trust people), Shae (people will hurt you, trust no one), Ramsay Bolton (this is really why you shouldn’t trust people)
With those kind of examples and years of verbal and physical abuse, I guess we shouldn’t be surprised she has trust issues.
Sure, Jan. (Sophie) *pats head*
I wonder if Nathalie ever imagined that her character would come this far?
Nariman,
Well, I don’t personally like her because she crucified 163 people without trial, that seems like a decent reason to me. I was such a big fan of her until that moment, and then it was all downhill. It might be controversial, but I don’t think she is a very good ruler, nothing to do with her being a woman. If she does sit on the throne (I don’t think she will) I hope she reigns it in a bit. I’ve always agreed with Daario on this, she is a conquerer first and foremost.
I’m hoping to come around on her in the final season, there is still time for me to get over my issues with her.
Ha! Perfect.
What trial was necessary? And, let’s face it: the more common solution in that world (and one that she was urged to do) would have been to execute the lot of them.
At any rate, they were slavers: it’s less “execution” and more “euthanasia.”
Dany is going to be a great ruler because she does seek council – Jorah, Sir Barriston, Tyrion, Lady Olenna ,she even asked Jon what he would do when she found out she lost the Reach. Sansa only let Littlefinger come to her to be counciled. I am a bit worried as watching the interview with Lena she went on and on about how Cersei was angry (rightfully so though she didn’t learn that it was her pride and arrogance, not her mental abilities) that her father never appreciated her, her brothers, her own kids, …I see Sansa developing the same feelings of insecurity and pride.
Wimsey,
We do find out that some of them were against the murder of those children, so I think a little more consideration was required. Swift executions would have been easier for me to stomach, iirc Barriston wanted mercy.
It’s weird for me, I can see that she has good intentions, I’m just not keen on the way she enforces her ideals. Her rule in Meereen brought death and disease to the people she was trying to protect, it was a disaster.
The crucifixion was only the first of her mistakes (if you discount Astapor and Yunkai being overtaken by worse rulers than before), and so far, I don’t know how much she has learnt from them (there was a reason for the Varys/Tyrion conversation in Season 7) I am hoping to get that answer in Season 8, and she could prove to be a fantastic ruler in the end, I don’t think she has been great so far.
Indeed, the characters (Stark and otherwise) do very much make sense in this light. And that’s true of nearly all stories: after all, the stories are in the evolution of particular characters. That stated, however, there always are blocks of viewers/readers who see red herrings in all of the setup, be it in character evolution or in plot elements.
With Sansa in particular, I’ve seen this come up with people arguing that Catelyn is a bigger influence on Sansa that is Cersei. However, in stories, it’s the people that alter a character and the influence they provide during the story that are important. If MB&W wanted Catelyn to be the bigger influence, then the story would need to be told very differently.
(An equally big problem is that people see Cersei as “evil” and Sansa as “good”: but that’s just a problem of applying a fundamentally incompatible story-telling paradigm onto GoT.)
Wolfish,
Serious question: Can you recommend a nice California wine for tomorrow’s viewing? Obviously, I don’t want to get so sh*t-faced that I’m seeing double after fifteen minutes, but I would like a warm and fuzzy buzz.
(I’m saving the Dom Perignon in my fridge for Arya’s ascension to the IT or her going full MFT on NK – whichever comes first.)
Daenerys understood what Selmy did not: mercy is conflated with weakness in this world. Moreover, her action turned out to be too merciful: Daenerys’ unwillingness to execute all of the Masters seems to have made them think that she lacked the conviction to do so.
(This was also important from the viewpoint of story: Daenerys learns what Jon learns, i.e., that your enemies will use olive branches against you, no matter how or even whether that are offered.)
It hardly looked like a disaster in the end. We probably will learn nothing more about Meereen, but they seem to be in much better shape now than they were before.
One big mistake here is to apply your values (or general modern sensibilities) to the actions of characters in this world. The show took a bit of time to communicate what the values of the different cultures are: and those are the ones we should use to judge Daenerys.
Mother of a Dragon,
I blame Tywin for Cersei turning into a monster. No four or five year old girl tortures her infant brother unless she learns it from her cold hearted father.
RG,
The thing is, if we’re supposed to think that Sansa’s experiences have made her extremely paranoid to the point of pointlessly obstructing necessary activities, then that means she’s incapable of being an effective politician and diplomat, which is what the show keeps saying she is.
Wimsey,
Cersei’s role in Sansa’s story is very different in the show versus the books, it should be noted. D&D clearly view her as some kind of role model (based in part on how much they’ve changed Cersei herself), whereas in GRRM’s story she is an anti-role model. Sansa’s time with her sharpens Sansa’s own convictions to not be like Cersei, which is what the climactic Blackwater chapters are about (likewise, later on when she’s with Littlefinger and he goes into greater detail about what a fool Cersei is). Much of Sansa’s early storyline involves interacting with various worst case scenarios for what can happen to people when they let life’s disappointments and/or the inequalities of the world around them turn them bad (Cersei, Lysa, Littlefinger, and so on).
Not a terribly plausible interpretation of either story, I’m afraid, since neither character discards mercy. Indeed, the Slaver’s Bay story ends with Dany offering the exact same mercy she showed before. Dany was also extremely generous to the Tarlys in offering them the chance to rejoin her cause. Likewise, Jon is still a big proponent of mercy.
Lol.
Jon Snow:
1. Bent the knee, without warning, despite his people expressing their opposition to him even meeting Daenerys, let alone bending the knee.
2. Made an alliance with Cersei Lannister despite being told that she was untrustworthy and wished to see her enemies destroyed at any cost.
3. Almost got himself killed going beyond The Wall, against the advice of his Hand.
4. That mission beyond The Wall resulted in the Night King getting his hands on a dragon and reducing The Wall to a great big puddle.
5. Is shagging the woman he just surrendered his kingdom to.
How in the hell is any drama emanating from that “contrived”?
Years of people musing on the decisions of Robb, Ned, Dany, Cersei, Stannis etc. and their consequences and how they impacted the story. But now all consequences must stop.
Why?
Jon Snow has been my favourite character in this show and I want him to be called out. Because I want this show to be logically and dramatically consistent.
People don’t even know what form this conflict will take, yet they’ve already deemed it contrived. I can’t help but feel that this might possibly, just maybe, perchance, have something to do with the specific character(s) involved.
RG,
“Arya: Syrio, Yoren, Jaquen, Brotherhood, Hound, FM = she’s been training to fight and kill this entire time while still being moderately protected. What do we say to the god of Death?”
A: Not today. Tomorrow night starting at 9 pm EDT. 👸🏻👢👢🍕🗡 👟👟🏹🎯
⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️⚰️
. 🧟♀️🧟♂️🧟♀️🧟♂️☠️💀
Can I take this opportunity to thank all of the old and new site contributors, moderators and commenters beyond counting for making this show so much more thought-provoking and enjoyable for me?
I’m expecting there to be contrived conflict like in other seasons and just like in those either Sophie once again being unable to portray what the scripts want her character to convey. Or it’s D&D being wishy washy with her character and unwilling to show her as this truly bad ass political mover and shaker because then she would have had to do some outright evil deeds. It’s like they’re giving Sansa a shortcut.
We’re supposed to believe she’s ready for leadership and some great political thinker but they won’t let her get her hands dirty accomplishing it. It’s all gotta be assumed on our part. Why not show her character in deep thought and agonizing over usurping Jon??? Why wouldn’t she? She’s learned from LF & Cersei. That’s what they’d do. That would have made her a more interesting character to me. It says she has those thoughts in the scripts but it wasn’t conveyed on screen. I’m expecting more of the same this season.
This season she’ll probably distrust Dany. Then either feel Jon is no longer a Stark after the R+L=J reveal or will try to get him to take the Throne over Dany or even plot for Northern independence but it won’t be conveyed in a way to make Sansa look selfish or too plotting.
Then after the Army of the Dead scare the shit out of her, she’ll finally have to make one last choice to keep playing the political games or focus on the War. And that conflict will end with Cersei. I think I see where they’re going with Sansa this year and I think a lot of people are gonna be unhappy with her end game because people won’t feel like it fit her character’s growth and arc. I’m expecting BIG controversy over her character. Maybe even moreso than Dany.
Wimsey,
I guess not, but that storyline was cut short, the idea of Daario ruling for her is laughable, and thousands of people died from the bloody flux before this happened. It’s done though, and I just have to accept it and move on.
I’m interested to see where she goes from here, will Tyrion forget his previous misgivings, or will that become a bigger thread through Season 8? I think the show wants us to question her a little bit, I just question her a bit more than I probably should.
Sean C.,
I was intrigued by your insights – with one exception: “Dany was also extremely generous to the Tarlys in offering them the chance to rejoin her cause.”
Kneel or fry is not what I’d call generous. Executing defenseless POWs is horrible PR for an aspiring leader. It didn’t work out very well for Stannis either.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Totally agree, Jon 2.0 has a few things to answer for, he trusts Dany completely but I don’t see why anyone else should, at least not immediately, I’m sure she will prove herself soon enough. Of course these issues will be put aside when the WW come, but I do think Sansa will be pushing for Jon to take the throne over Dany, the Northern Lords will have a few things to say about that as well.
If you’re going to assert your claim to rulership of a territory against the wishes of the local rulers and physically conquer it, then executing those who refuse to assent to your rule pretty much goes with the job. If you aren’t willing to do that, you might as well not even try.
In this case, the Tarlys were sworn to Dany’s ally/vassal, Lady Olenna Tyrell, and personally lead an assault that laid waste to territories sworn to Dany and the death of the aforesaid Lady Olenna. This is a offense that clearly warrants execution by the laws of Westeros.
But Dany offered Tarly a pardon and the opportunity to rejoin her cause (to which they were nominally sworn when Olenna gave her the allegiance of the Reach). That is extremely generous — if, say, Harald Karstark or Smalljon Umber had survived the Battle of the Bastards, there’s no indication that a pardon was in the offing for them. Indeed, Jon implies that he would have executed Lord Karstark in such circumstances, though he’s willing to let the Karstarks keep their lands in exchange for pledge of fealty.
Ramsay Bolton certainly wasn’t pardoned, despite being a POW, and was instead gruesomely executed in a manner far more painful than Dany employed against the Tarlys.
Aegon the IceDragon,
“Or it’s D&D being wishy washy with her [Sansa’s] character and unwilling to show her as this truly bad ass political mover and shaker because then she would have had to do some outright evil deeds…”
______
Except that S2 Tyrion was a “truly bad ass political mover and shaker” without necessarily resorting to outright evil deeds.
Exhibit A: My all-time favorite Tyrion scene (S2e5?) when in the course of four minutes he turns pompous Lancel into a double-agent working for him to spy on Cersei. Exhibit B: Ferreting out Pycelle as the one who was snitching to Cersei about his plans.
I would’ve loved to see Sansa pull off some maneuvers like that. I guess that takes a lot more thought and planning than the time constraints of TV episodic scripting allow.
Sean C.,
“Ramsay Bolton certainly wasn’t pardoned, despite being a POW, and was instead gruesomely executed in a manner far more painful than Dany employed against the Tarlys.”
Touché!
Ten Bears,
Visually speaking, I think Tyrion benefited from doing this to people we don’t like, I certainly enjoyed seeing Pycelle get his beard chopped off. Sansa would be manipulating the ‘good guys’ which wouldn’t go down so well.
Sean C.,
This is all true, and she may have sent him to the wall if he had kept his mouth shut. She didn’t need to kill Dickon though, Tyrion begged her not to.
Ten Bears,
I wouldn’t say it’s a limitation of TV scripting (plenty of shows depict political intrigue successfully), it’s a limitation of the writers not being able to think of genuinely clever things for her to do.
Sean C.,
I don’t think the people will have a promblem that Dany executed the tarlys. But they will have a problem with how she did it.
If she just hack their heads off there wasn’t a problem. But she did it in a gruesome way. Burning alive. It’s horrible like tyrion made clear when he talked to varys. It was clear how the maesters in old Town talked about it. And if that news were to come out to the northern lords they will fear her for that moment. Because they think she will be like her father.
She is not her father but she made if very difficult to not let everybody feel like she is like her father. You even saw it in danys eyes the moment she killed the tarlys (I think the most because of dickon). She knew she went to far.
Sean C.,
Well, what I meant was that after passing the books the showrunners didn’t have the luxury of constructing politically astute maneuvers.
Ten Bears,
PS Here’s the Tyrion & Lancel scene (S2e4) I was referring to. My favorite bits….
at 1:02: Tyrion looks up and knows he’s got Lancel hooked, though Lancel doesn’t realize it yet.
1:44: Lancel turns into jelly
I’m not sure on what basis anyone could make that assertion.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
When Drogon burned the Tarlys, their agony seemed short lived as they dropped dead within a few seconds. Ramsey was mauled to death and tore piece by piece by hungry blood hounds. Its purely semantics regarding which one is more “painful”, but I’d rather die by dragon fire than by being fed to my own hounds.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
The Tarlys were killed almost instantly (it takes maybe 4-5 seconds). Ramsay was torn to pieces by dogs; it clearly takes much longer, as he’s still making painful sounds when the fade-to-black hits.
You quoted part of the leaked S7 script/summary in a comment on another article here
Well the preceding line says “Drogon’s fire instantly kills them both”
I agree that Dany went too far when she burned Dickon. I understood her anger though. She had recently lost all of her allies and a major one directly to Randyl who was a turncoat. He vehemently made it known his xenophobia would never allow him to live in a Westeros she wanted to rule. He had to go. Should have spared the son though.
Edward,
I don’t think I’d have particularly strong feelings either way if given that choice. They both seem unimaginably painful.
Sean C.,
I don’t think there’s an equation for calculating how painful a death is.
I find it hard to imagine that there’s a clear difference between having your entire body erupt in flames, your blood boil, your flesh seared from your bones, before dissolving into a pile of ashes and being mauled by dogs for a few seconds longer. But it really is impossible to say, so asserting as much doesn’t really amount to anything.
And, just for the record, I don’t think you can definitively state that Ramsay is still alive and in pain when it fades to black, since there are no longer any distinctly human noises to be discerned among the sound of the dogs. I mean, his body still appears to be moving as well, but he’s being mauled by a pack of dogs so it’s possible he’s just lifeless like a rag doll at that point.
I don’t really see any point in arguing that either form of execution is less painful than the other. They’re both clearly gruesome.
Jay Targ,
Perhaps the director should’ve paid a bit more attention then, because they patently didn’t die instantly.
GRRM reported again that the main characters’ beats will be the same as in the books and show. Will Dany burn Dickon in the books? He’s only 11. Maybe D&D went easy on her.
Ten Bears,
Where to begin? If you’re into Pinot Noir, I’d recommend Foursight (Anderson Valley, Mendocino County—lighter, earthier Burgundy-style) or, for a fruitier Pinot, something from Sonoma County’s Russian River Valley. (I’m not big on Pinot, but I’m surrounded by people who are.) If you’re like me and prefer more robust reds, I cannot recommend Ridge highly enough. Their York Creek petite sirah/Zinfandel blends are mouthwatering.
My former partner of nine years got into grape-growing and winemaking ca. 2001, and coincidentally, his daughter married into a Washington wine family (the largest privately-owned winery in the state, if I recall). I’ve spent an insane amount of time tasting and drinking wine. One would think I’d be an expert, but I’m really not. I actually wound up being numbed by all the consumption, and eventually resentful because every single precious vacation and long weekend away from the boonies was devoted to food and wine (no museums, ballet, film, camping, etc.). As much as I joke about Dornish red, I haven’t indulged in a really good bottle in a long time.
Scotch, on the other hand…
Scotch is becoming a thing. Thank goodness a dram or two suffices for an evening.
/end of personal tangent
Dany keeping a hold on the North despite their dislike of her makes zero logical sense. She doesn’t have to have the North in her pocket to be the “salvation.”
MMJ,
He was talking about the basics of the ending, not plot beats like that.
He said he told D&D the whole storyline for all the major characters. He had to tell them plot beats to get to the ending. Randyll and Dickon seem oddly specific because it is set to cause a reaction in Sam — another major character. D&D just came up with that on their own?
MMJ,
Well, yes, he told them his plans, such as they were. And he’s said the outlines of the ending are the same, as far as he knows; D&D have said as much. But the plots for getting there are, as all have said repeatedly, very different. Sam’s storyline at this point is nothing like his book storyline.
I think going behind people’s back and threatens to tear house Stark apart has more to do with if they survive house Stark ends on top.
I don’t think it meas to destroy Jon or siding with an enemy, I think she and Sam will make sure Jon is king after the war ora system where the Starks win the game.
A time for wolves and a dream of spring.
Very well put. I think they’ll be loyal to each other but neither hesitates to express her opinions. Arya particularly has a long history of seeing truth and speaking it, whereas Sansa has a history of saying truth or lies depending on what furthers her goals. Arya has confronted Cersei, Ned, Tywin, Jaqen, Sandor and more with insights that they probably didn’t want to hear. I expect teamwork between her and Sansa, but she will necessarily be skeptical of Dany (despite her being a warrior queen) and Jon’s capitulation. But once she susses out Dany’s sincerity and Jon’s wisdom in making that decision, she will probably become their advocate. Perhaps the new sister alliance will stumble on this difference of opinion until Sansa sees the light. If she doesn’t see the light, I expect the AotD arrival will show it to her.
I would like to know what options did dickon leave dany with .. if he is hell bent on being executed then it’s not dany fault..
Even randyl ordered dickon to back down..dany never ordered dickon to be executed in the first place ..he offered himself and his own choice to get killed..
Dany did not enjoy the kill and if she backed down at that point she would have been seen weak…they didn’t give her much of a choice .
The only problem people have in this is that dany burned them..A dragon queen uses a dragon to kill…imagine the surprise and outrage..
I guess if only dany behead them like the Starks then I assume people would have been ok with it .
If Sam is ok with his father dying and not ok with his brother then it shows a bias that he is not ok with killing of brother who is not horrible to him at the same time he is ok with his father dying because he was horrible to him..
Don’t forget how they executed janos just for being insubordination.. and he was begging like hell not to get executed but they carried forward with the descision..
Zero fucking days!!!!!! Aaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!
Dragonbringer,
Any son is gonna elect to show courage and die beside his father. It was on Dany to ensure to not extinguish the Tarly line (as far as she knew anyway). She should have taken Dickon prisoner and only executed Randyl or taken both prisoner and executed neither. How many other rulers that we’ve seen in the story that we could consider one of the “good guys” would have executed both a father and son like that? I can’t think of many or any.
Aegon the IceDragon,
We could only answer that when all those characters were put in the same position..
He did know that if he didn’t back down he will be executed and he chose to die..so he went willingly and made his choice already ..
Dany would have looked weak if she backed down..
It’s also worth to note that both tyrion and Randyl pleaded to dickon and he never took their advice..
That was dysthanasia.
Dragonbringer,
Quick quirky theory
Ned executes NW deserter. Ned gets beheaded.
Joffrey has Ned executed, dies poisoned.
Robb executes karstark. Robb ends up murdered.
Jon executes Slynt. Jon gets murdered.
Stannis burns daughter. He gets killed off.
Littelfinger, Tywin, Robb and so on….people like Margaery and Catelyn, Talisa are simply casualties of other’s fate?)
I predict the following people might die:
Dany burned Tarlys and had people crucified
Tyrion killed his father and Shae
Sansa had Ramsay killed
Cercei…ugh
Arya destroys Trant and Freys
Etc
People whose hands are clean cause they haven’t killed as far as we know and might be the only ones left living at end of show:
Missandei
Bran
Gilly
Samwell (I can only remember the Then and that was immediate self defense)
Baby Sam
Baby Targ if there is one
The maesters
A lesson in karma where karma does not care about rulers, justification, ego, revenge it just is what it is. You take a life where not absolutely necessary, you have to pay. White Walkers=karma. Westeros has become too murderous. Where/how does the “Many faced god” come into play tho I wonder.
“Nothing”? Please…
To be fair Sansa is one of, if not the most polarising character on the show already. My guess is she stirs things up about Dany and potentially works with Varys/Tyrion, especially when it becomes clear Dany has no right to the throne.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Actually, I don’t see Arya becoming Dany’s advocate. As a matter of a fact, I think both Arya and Sansa are 100%commited to the pack at this point in time. I know Sansa was annoying, especially in season 6, but at this point, it is jon who I think will have to choose between love or duty. Another thing, will Jon know and connect with the person Arya is now? Will he embrace her as Sansa is doing as of the end of season 7? I know this is an old discussion but Jon gave the woman he is in love with his kingdom and this wasn’t even discussed with the Starks. I just don’t feel right with that. You can still have alliances without giving up your kingdom. I like pretty much everyone and i amnot looking at this as an Arya, Sansa, Jon, or Dany fan. I am just looking at the story and where I think it’s leading. There were so many clues the writers gave us. Oh, and another tjing, off topic, I don’t see Sam throwing roses at Dany’s feet either. There is so much set up and it is there for a reason.
Everyone is missing the point of this scene… it is a fictional story, what Dany should or shouldn’t have done is irrelevant… the writers clearly had her make this decision for a story reason… this is backed up by the Tyrion/Varys conversation later… this is clearly meant to be an important moment of potential conflict or sowing the seeds of discord between Dany and some of her westerosi allies… many scenes in season 7 felt like a setup for future concerns, conflict or decisions… Tyrion’s reaction during the entire battle was conflicted… and for someone not involved in the fighting, we cut away to him way too many times for his reactions not to be meaningful
Asoiaf fan,
I agree, it was a poor decision and I do think he will be forced to choose between love or duty this season, Aemon’s speech will become relevant to Jon. He imo hadn’t gotten to know her well enough to do it at that point but we can mostly understand why Jon handed the kingdom over to her as we witnessed the moments in time, the emotions and thoughts behind it, she saved their lives when she didn’t have to, treated him well while he was essentially captive, he admires her on top of falling in love is a heady experience, but to those that crowned him it’s a betrayal not even to consult with them first. She is in their minds, still one of the enemy and he just made her their ruler. I wonder if he’s able to convince them and/or they come to see the value she and her army/dragons brings to the table but something tells me the AOTD isn’t real enough to them, just yet.
My sweet summer child. Dany is a megalomaniac by nature. She’s not in WF to help out of her good heart. She’s there to secure the part of the kingdom she intends to rule. She’ll do as she did with Jon, demanding the Lords to bend the knee first.
ygritte,
I agree with everything you are saying. Also, I think that they will put their differences aside and work together when the AOTD arrive. Even in real life, we tell death, “not today” , when we face cancer, heart disease, and other threats to our safety. But that doesn’t mean that other everyday concerns are petty. Any kind of threat to your family, even if it isn’t the AOTD, can’t be fluffed off as irrelevant. Also, we need food, shelter,clothes and so on in order to survive. We can’t forget about those. That’s survival 101. It isn’t all about dragons and big armies even though you obviously need those things as well. This reminds me, how will all these people and dragons be fed? Maybe Dany planned that out but it wasn’t included in the story? Maybe the show will fluff that off and not address it? I guess we will find out soon.
Agreed.
ygritte,
Good list, interesting idea.
Might I point out that Bran killed Locke using Hodor’s body (mindrape of a helpless person…). Arguably self-defence but we could see how distressed poor Hodor was after the event. Also, Bran caused Hodor’s affliction and ultimately his death through selfish thoughlessness. What’s the Karma for that?
This is why I like GoT. Even our favourites, the “good guys”, do some pretty questionable and horrible things. Nobody is just black or white, it’s all different shades of grey, designed to make us think about different moral dilemmas.
Yay! Only 14 more hours!!!
Dragonbringer,
That you have a weapon doesn’t mean you should use it. You don’t see the US or Russia etc using their nuclair bombs because it’s not very smart to use them, but they have them.
That dany have a dragon doesn’t mean she should use them.Especially if your father is know for burning innocent people alive. you should never use that method for the sake of not being compared to them. Dany’s action for burning the tarly’s alive was very stupid.
We know Dany did dispise her action and didn’t feel great about it, but how do the people that weren’t their know that? Look at politics in our real world how every action of them can take them down.
The Maesters, Tyrion, Varys all spoke up how they disliked that action of her.
Cersei can use it to manipulate the people.
The Northern lords can use it to make Jon see she is like her father. Same for Sansa Arya and Bran.
She’s not going to win over the people of Westeros.
About Dany as a character, I like her character and her kindness. But I see faults with her, that aren’t very good for a leader imo.
Season 1:
She burned Mirri Maz Duur because she blamed her for killing Drogon, her husband, and her child (the stallion who mounts the world), she burned her alive.
We all feel like she deserved it, because she killed Drogon. Burn that witch, Mirri Maz duur evil because Dany says so.
But at the same time Dany fans can’t see to think about the mindset of Mirri Maz Duur.
She was a peacefull woman living in a peacefull village, where she is some sort of healer (Doctor in our world), she heal people, woman children.
Then there come a horde of Dothraki, who rape the woman you know, killing the children you know and love, making them slaves. Those people that are her friends, family etc.
Tell me, would you forgive the leader of that group for making that happen, the rape of your sisters, mother, aunt, friends. The killing of them. Or would you do everything in your power to stop this from happening to another village again, stopping the rape, murder of innocence.
I think the action of Mirri Maz Duur is less evil than the action of Dany. The action of mirri Maz duur could have stopped (And did) the horror the dothraki could bring to other villages.
Season 2:
Let Xaro and Doreah starve instead of giving them a clean death. (I can understand her action for personal reasons but a leader should never act like that)
Season 4:
The crusifix of the masters (which many were against slavery). Even Barristan who had the wisdom how to act as a leader advice her not to. And she reacts that it’s justice. But it was not justice, this was revenge.
Justice would have been what Barristan said. Killing them instantly.
Season 5:
Let a member of a royal family member be eaten by her dragon even after drogon killed a child that way.
2 things that are not so great about it.
1. She should learn her dragons never to eat a human being for obvious reasons.
2. She knew that man was innocent, she even stated the chance was high he was. But still she acted on it. That’s how a Tyrant rule, by fear.
Season 7: Burning the tarly’s already stated above.
Dragonbringer,
Tyrion advice Dany not to, so why is dickon wrong but not Dany for not listening to Tyrion?
Asoiaf fan,
and don’t forget:
The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arya, Bran, Sansa are the pack. Jon must choose his side. Do he choose his family (the pack) and survive. Or do he choose Dany (the Lone wolf) and dies.
I think that statement of Ned (and sansa in 7×07) is very important for Jon in season 8.
—
ps. Who’s heart is racing like a maniac right now. We are so close to the premiere, can’t wait.
And can’t wait till “Episode 1: TBA” will air
kevin1989,
Agree.
A lot of value here!
There will be an alliance to fight the AOTD. Before the war starts there will be quarreling as the various parties assert their interests. This is normal and to be expected. No one wants to be ruled by a newly arrived person with dragons – so they will complain. (Daenerys is not doing any favors – she would need to fight the AOTD at some point if she wants to rule Westeros.) Then they will fight together. And after the war, there will be political jostling to decide how they go on into the future.
Thank you for that!!! I am not a wine connoisseur. (Bubble gum, yes. Wine, no.)
For sentimental, nostalgic reasons, I will go with
“something from Sonoma County’s Russian River Valley.” I once spent three weeks in the Russian River. (Yes, in it. Luxuriating in the crystal clear water all day.) It was like being in paradise – almost a different planet. Such wonderful memories… I never should’ve left.
Anyway, I’ll be looking for a Pinot from the Russian River Valley. Thanks again !
I am also taking note. Will try your suggested!
Sorry but everything points to Dany being a terrible ruler, yes at times she means well but she often takes the wrong route, Cersei, Jon and even Sansa would be better rulers. Thankfully I don’t expect Dany to make it out alive in six weeks time.
Jon Snowed,
I agree that Jon and Sansa would be better rulers. And perhaps even Cersei as well but I could be persuaded otherwise on Cersei. My main reservation with Jon is the undead state but if that does not matter, then he would be fine as ruler.
We will get the same ending for the major characters like Jon, Cersei, Jamie, Tyrion etc. Dickon however is a tiny character so I highly doubt it.
Jon Snowed,
Lol the bias shows once you name cersei and Sansa as better rulers than dany.I guess you will call joffery or even baby sam better than dany
Oh I am biased towards Jon but not Sansa (one of my least favourite characters) or Cersei either. Both Sansa and Cersei understand politics which Dany doesn’t for starters. I actually liked Dany in early seasons but she has an arrogance and clearly trends a fine line between good/bad now i truly hope she is taken down.
Does Cersei not have an arrogance or tread a fine line between good and bad?
Ten Bears,
Of course!!!
SEVEN HOURS AND THIRTY-ONE MINUTES!!!
Mango,
🍷🐺🐉
Mango,
I’m waiting to see what kind of superpowers the spawn of the Undead and the Unburnt will have.
#Joking
#NotTheIncredibles
Sansa a better ruler??? That’s hilarious. And Viki… I think we all know and understand this is a fictional story. We all know the characters do what the writers write them as doing. We understand it’s all part of a fictional story and world and not real life. But why can’t we immerse ourselves in the world & question the characters motives and actions without taking everything too damn literal??? My goodness.
Such as
And these two doesn’t have them
I am not saying Cersei doesn’t do either of those things two, she’s clearly a worse person than Dany but she is a solid ruler.
Since Missandei’s place is with Daeny, I’m counting on Daeny’s plot armour (as far as it goes) to protect them both. Grey Worm on the other hand……well, I’m still working on making my peace with his disposability 🙁
I don’t think Jon must choose his side. Unaware that he was ice AND fire, he told Theon that he didn’t have to choose…he was Stark AND he was Greyjoy. What Jon knows is also what Ned stressed to Arya and Arya told Sansa: “In Winter, we must protect ourselves. Look out for one another.” Everyone on the side of the living must collaborate, have each other’s back for the living to prevail. This is NOT the time for silly musical chairs games and one-upsmanship. You’d think that Sansa would have learned not to undermine Jon or anyone else. Oh wait, she’s a slow learner. At this crucial moment, she’s still acting like a Mean Girl. I give up.
Oh, and I’ll take Dany and her temper over Cersei or Sansa any day. Dany knows how to rule and has a heart. A good advisor (or husband?) can help curb her temper. Cersei lacks a heart and Sansa has suppressed hers to get ahead. RIP Rickon.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I was about to say Jon already chose a side when he was willing to give his life to save Rickon & help get his family’s home back. Who in her family has Sansa been willing to give her life for??? It’s Sansa that still has to choose a side. Sure she’s ok with Arya as long as Arya lets her be the Lady of Winterfell. We’ll see how she truly feels about Jon in the next few weeks. I personally think Sansa still has a family loyalty test to pass but we shall see.