In an interview with The Sunday Times, Kit Harington reiterates that his only appearance in Game of Thrones Season Six will be as a dead body.
Speaking to The Sunday Times Culture Magazine, the actor insists that Jon Snow would only make a reappearance as a corpse, in an attempt to quash the ever persistent rumours that he would be resurrected.
He attributes on set photographs of his character to the fact he was there to film the dead body, saying
You can’t just forget that he’s actually died. I had to be a dead body…so there was a certain amount of filming that had to be done.
He joked that playing the corpse was some of his best work. When asked why his hair was still in the same long style that he wore as Jon Snow, the actor exclaimed that he simply became attached to the way it looked.
You can read more on this interview here.
No matter how hard the cast and crew try, it seems rumours of Jon Snow’s resurrection in Season Six just won’t go away!
Don’t worry, Kit, this mummer’s farce is almost done.
hodor?
Hodor?
Hodor!
Hodor
I think he knows that we know that he is going to get resurrected lol.
Don’t, worry Kit, it’s almost over.
I hope he isn’t going to be a “dead body” for the whole season only to be resurrected at the finale. I prefer he is actually dead then waiting to find out the whole season.
Really getting tired of this nonsense. If what he’s saying is true and he’s not coming back, the whole story will jump the shark and it’ll take on a whole Lost level of disappointment. I refuse to believe that’s what’s really going to happen, no matter what he says.
Haha. Of course he will be playing dead body… it’s just Jon Snow’s mind that will not be dead.
Miss it… a minute too late…it would have been my first Hodor and also my first post..
Can’t wait for season 6 so that all those who are convinced he’s coming back will drop that stubborn attitude. He is dead for real. You see hints where there aren’t any.
I just want to hear what he has to say after he gets resurrected
maybe when they resurrect him, he’ll be someone other than Jon Snow like Ghost in human form and he only barks instead of speaking.
Kit repeats the same words again and again !!!!!!!! Come on Kit use your imagination to say something different !!!!!!!!
Hubo,
Yeah, sure, that’s why he was spotted
: he was just there as a corpse…
Kit please…
zod,
The report claims he was there. That’s all the evidence we have. No proof.
Yes Jon snow is dead, and he’ll play a dead Jon snow.. that’s fair enough.. yes there will he a resurrection but it won’t be Jon snow that comes back.. his body will be resurrected but will we finally get the prince who was promised.
zod,
And wardrobe changes. Don’t forget the certain amount of wardrobe changes that had to be done.
Nothing makes a corpse look better than a change of clothes. Put some color in those cheeks. We really need to bring out the eyes. Without popping them out, preferably.
In 35 days we’ll be in the know Mr Harington, honestly i can’t wait for all the interviews during and after season with him and rest of the cast, you know their reactions to all the jon snow business this past year.
PS: today was officially start of new year here in my country, as soon as i’m done with season two of daredevil i’ll start rewatching the show.
Hubo,
You must have missed the pictures.
Didn’t he repeatedly say that he hated having long hair? Anyways, its not like I believe anything he says. I just want the season to come already so that he can stop pretending, must be pretty hard for Kit.
Hubo,
Really?
https://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Kit.jpg
Ha! Say it one more time & we’ll believe ya Kit 😉 😛
Hubo,
Kit Harington was spotted with Miguel Sapochnik in Stark armor (the guy who’s directing the big battle in Episode 9)
It’s 100,000,000% confirmed that he won’t stay dead.
They can fool the casual viewers but not us.
You gotta admire his commitment to the lie, however feeble it may be at this point lol.
Well struck! 🙂
Of course he isn’t just playing a dead body, he is playing a resurrected dead body, there is a slight difference there. Kit is likely going to be quite happy when this charade will be over.
He may be telling the truth. He may be resurrected, but he may technically be undead. He’ll be able bodied and sound of mind without a heartbeat.
Lol!
Maceless Fan,
HBO would sue him into oblivion if he said anything else.
Eamont,
Perhaps the answer is that D&D have somehow combined the LSH and Jon Snow characters, leaving Jon as some sort of reanimated corpse. He will, in effect, be a walking, talking, thinking zombie. And he will be bent on revenge–revenge against the Night’s Watch traitors, the Boltons, and everyone else who has screwed the Starks over (a long list). This would allow Kit and everyone else to keep saying Jon is dead, and dead is dead, etc., without technically lying.
The only other possibility is that Kit is lying his ass off here, and I have trouble believing he’d want to do that. Then again, perhaps HBO is paying him a lot of money to lie, so it’s a definite possibility.
It seems like since the trailer came out, Kit has been handling these questions a lot better. At least now when he’s asked about being spotted on set, he can attribute it to being a corpse (he couldn’t even say that before) and he won’t look like a deer caught in the headlights like he did in the ‘BBC Breakfast’ interview in January. He appears to be having fun with it now.
Don’t ya know?
Holy shit!, we’re down to 35 days! We’re so close now.
I’m not frustrated with his lies, mainly because he has no choice. Look at it from HBO’s point of view, ANY other answer apart from ‘He’s dead’ ‘I’m a dead body’ would give the game up. Imagine 9 months of “no comment” that spells it out! So the only sensible answer is to lie.
Oh god, once again. He will be playing a corpse. Just a mobile one.
Why he agrees with interviews like that? He should just not give them. It’s pretty annoying that he keeps lying when we know the character will be back. Just don’t agree with the damn interviews then.
The mainly reason I want the new season to start is because we’ll finally move on on that subject. Its like the whole show is about that now.
LLLLLLLLLIAR!!
It might be 42 before we know for certain. I hope 35, but it could be 42. If not 42, I’ll be fairly devastated. I may become like the LSH fans and be in total denial the entire season.
Don’t you just love the way Kit goes on about Jon Snow. What he avoids is any mention of whether or not he will play another character on the show. That, as we all know, will be too much of a spoiler.
So, who will Kit become? There will be significance to the character’s name, that’s for sure. I don’t see the full reveal of Jon’s true identity coming any time soon.
First, he has to re-take Winterfell, and it’ll be for Sansa & Rickon. It won’t be for himself.
My feeling is that a last will and testament will surface. Stannis, who saw something in Jon, and respected his decision, would leave the offer to Jon with Davos. (In the event of what will become news at Castle Black.) Perhaps another comes along, which would mean more to Jon, as it’d be Rob’s wish. I can’t see Jon turning this down. One way or another, or both, Jon becomes Jon Stark.
It’ll be how he feels towards Sansa & Rickon that makes him hand over any titles to them. Sansa would act as Regent for Rickon, until he’s grown a beard. Jon would become what he’d be to Rob, Rickon’s trusted advisor.
Hubo,
I see what you mean, especially since there are photographs of him in Stark style armor in battle on set.
Kit Harington’s least believable acting since Pompeii is Kit Harington giving interviews saying Jon is permanently dead.
At least with Pompeii we got the abs. Maybe instead of answering questions, he could just whip off his shirt and flex for the interviewer to distract from the questions. I’d be down with it.
He’s promoting Dr Faustus, his new play. He’s going to be doing a lot of interviews about it, though there’s only one question people want to ask! 🙂
This.
Indeed!
Here’s how the article ends:
“So in the next season, it’s all about mourning and loss?
‘I wouldn’t have any idea,’ Harington shoots back blithely. For what it’s worth, for once he sounds shockingly insincere.”
🙂 🙂 🙂
Ginevra,
Hi Ginevra, With all the filming news and everything WotW provided us with i can’t help myself and still feel uncertain, i guess the show taught us to always be prepared for the worst case scenario.
Pounce,
My reasoning behind him not coming back is that we only have one picture of him filming, the one zod posted (I’ve been keeping up with the news so I opened every filming report, I might have missed some pics but I’m pretty sure I would have noticed Kit’s filming pics) and it’s pretty safe to assume it’s from the scene where he is just a corpse.
What else do we have?
While it’s true that casual viewers don’t know about the filming and will be surprised if he comes back, these casual viewers unlike us don’t even bother with reading interviews so it’s not like they are achiving anything.
Also they tried to drum his definitive death into everyone’s heads so hard that if he comes back it will pass as ridiculous not as surprising and I refuse to believe HBO is that silly.
I’m all up for changing opinion but I don’t have enough proof for now, a pic and the fact he is shooting with the episode 9 director.
I would be very glad if anyone posted 2 pics of him shooting season 6 in different clothes, that would be definitely something.
zod,
Lol good one
Well he will, in a way be a resurrected dead body so maybe he is not lying
Hubo,
The vast majority of people who watch GOT don’t read fan blogs or pay any attention to the show when it’s not on the air. For those viewers, a Jon Snow resurrection or reanimation (depending on your point of view) will be a holy crap moment. HBO undoubtedly knows this. Kit’s PR denials are geared towards the average viewer, not people who read fan blogs. Nothing against fan blogs, of course. I read them all the time. But they’re only a small percentage of the people who watch Game of Thrones.
Yeah can you believe that the Season 5 finale was 40 weeks ago today…FORTY weeks! Only 5 more weeks to go!
This is where a lot of the differences between readers and the unsullied lives. Everyone likes to say both sides are on equal footing now that the series is going into uncharted territory, but I disagree.
As a reader first, I don’t doubt that Jon ‘Snow’ is dead. In fact I think the new video of Jon’s great moments while he recites the oath for the Knights Watch is a brilliant reminder for viewers and casual observers alike that Jon Snow HAD to die. Readers have been beat over the head with Jon’s internal angst over saying the words and his honor. Kit’s perfectly reciting the words that he plays Jon Snow’s dead body. Yup…definitely true.
But after five books of excellently laid groundwork and intricate interweaving plots–if Jon isn’t brought back to life as John Stark (remember the letter from Robb?) then the show will have completely deviated from the original story arc.
That doesn’t mean I won’t watch and enjoy, but I also won’t let it ruin my anticipation and expectations for TWOW and Jon Stark/Tragayeon who is born from Jon Snow’s ‘death.’
Nice to see some people in discord over what to believe., Dead not dead. Coming back or not.
I for one don’t really care like some other people that he’s lying, he’s not a Fucking saint, he and everyone else could lie if they wanted to. only a few people are going to take that personally, so who really cares ? Jon Snow comes back, i’m celebrating, and if he Doesn’t come back ? I’m Laughing my ass off.
The entire cast must be so sick of being asked about this lol
Soon!
Hubo,
No. It is not only reports of him being there. There is a picture of him spoiler]wearing Stark clothes and speaking with Sapochnick, episode’s 9 director…[/spoiler] That is a lot of work for a corpse, isn’t it?
Jon Snow is dead. Kill the boy. Let the man, Jon Stark/________(<—your paternal surname of choice here) of Winterfell and The Prince Who Was Promised, be born.
I'm not even mad he's laying or splitting hairs at this point. What's he to do? Break his contract and say "YEAH GUYS, THE JIG IS UP!" I'm just happy the promotion machine is back in seemingly full swing again.
Just another month and few days. I can wait.
1 % of me wants jon snow to be dead and gone, just to see the aftermath.
Lynch mob at comic con ? doubt it, but who knows 😀
GhostCR,
you forgot a bracket 😉
The picture of (what appears to be) Jon “on location” was taken during a break in filming, not during an actual filmed scene. It’s very possible that Kit was just hanging out on set to mislead the fan-spies who were taking unauthorized pictures, just like they planted Shae’s actress in the Mereen set and White Walkers on the Braavos set. If you think Shae is getting resurrected and going to Mereen, or WWs will invade Braavos this season, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
The story about the scene with the giant is just rumors, and hard to believe rumors at that (since the giants are not present at filming but added in post-production).
I still think he’s dead and staying dead, but there appears to be some value to his corpse in the trailer. I have no idea what that could possibly point to.
Maid of Tits and Dragons,
I don’t think a name change due to legitimization is sufficient to claim the person with the old name is dead. Is Ramsay Snow “dead”?
I’ve gone from somewhat feeling bad for this dude having to continually sell this bullshit despite all evidence to the contrary to thinking that he might just be kind of a douche. You know, Kit, you could just refuse to do any freaking interviews until the episodes air. This is getting insulting.
That said, if he’s been telling the truth the entire time, the Internet reaction is going to be EPIC.
Kargaryen,
Because his a young actor who needs the exposition? He is still building a career. He cannot dissappear completely. He went almost silent for about 9 months, but his career goes on. He will appear in a play that starts in April, where he has the lead role, and he has to do press for that. Despite the interviews are for the play, journalists keep asking him the same questions over and over about GoT. He cannot just turn around and walk away!
I believe I remember a little interview in the past where Kit said he actually hated having long hair and wished he could cut it… Can’t remember where I found that interview originally but in googling “Kit Harington hates long hair” I found the quote I was thinking of!
—-
“I don’t want the bother of it all really,” he told the Metro back in 2014. “If you look a certain way or you have a certain look it dominates what people think you are. So I’ll cut it off quite soon. As soon as I’m allowed.”
—-
Hmm! 🙂
Maester Aemon to Jon Snow…”kill the boy and let the man be born”….
34 more days to go….
He knows that the fans know this: but he also knows that Joe and Jane HBO Subscriber do not. These interviews will be all that most of the people who watch the show and who read anything about it in advance will read: and even then, most of the viewers will not be reading/watching these interviews.
(Lest this seem unthinkable, stop and ask yourself: how many TV shows do I follow in any detail? For most of us here, the answer is 1 or 2; and for most people in general, it is zero.)
It is interesting that he keeps on saying that playing a dead corpse is some of his best work. He is obviously joking, but perhaps he could also be implying that Jon will have an interesting or a great arc this season.
crimethink,
Because Kit has nothing better to do but troll fans like us, should have put him in a dress, would have loved the reactions to that.
His agent wold smack him aside the head if Kit did that. Actors have to keep up a constant stream of these things to promote anything and everything that they are doing. And if it upsets a few thousand fanboys, well, too bad: Kit has to market himself to the millions, not to the thousands.
I am leaning towards this myself. It ties a lot together; why LSH was never brought back, how Harington can remain a part of Season 6 instead of taking a long hiatus (because I think Jon will be back as Jon before the end). We’ll find out soon enough what is going on. I am looking forward to fandom reactions very, very much! 😀
Hubo,
Not really. Security was extremely tight for that filming spot. It is not likely to have many other pics surfacing. The thing is, this one did and it is increadibly telling: Sapochnik, Kit wearing Stark clothes again… The screenshot of the battle from the trailer with his familiar silhouette…
crimethink,
With all due respect, if you think that a rising young actor like Kit Harington would agree to be on set in Belfast for an entire summer just to be a decoy for fan sites instead of taking other gigs, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
As I’ve asked before… if D&D, HBO execs, and Kit wanted to create suspense and buzz among Joe and Jane HBO Subscriber types, why would they go out of their way to insist Jon was dead and staying dead? Why not just say tune in next season to find out what happens?
crimethink,
I can’t wait for your comments when the episode with Jon’s resurrection airs. I hope you know you will feel like a fool.
This is the difference between fans and other viewers. Fans for all films and TV series know a lot more about what is coming up: any series with websites is going to have spoilers like we get here. So, for example, Doctor Who fans or Walking Dead fans know a lot more about what is coming up in a season than do the vast majority of the viewers, who will learn about it as it comes.
They should have handle this in a different way and try to play more with the audience,
We know he is dead and he will play a corpse for a while. And he is going to be a good one walking around with a sword.
It´s funny when he broachs the subject to sound convincing 😛
He must be so annoyed by all this.
And I agree if Jon wouldnt come back at all that would be just a huge disappointment, the promotion for next season has also been very jon snow heavy, if he isnt coming back its like they just trolled everyone; you can do that at some extant, but that would be just really stupid.
crimethink,
Guys! What if he’s telling the truth? What if Jon is really dead and won’t be resurrected? If he’s really dead I’m going to be pissed .. he’s my favourite and game of thrones will never be the same without him. I’m being paranoid here ..
Wimsey,
Thumbs up for the Spoiling Dead 😀
Because Jon was left bleeding badly in the snow. Unlike, say, Stannis or the Hound, Jon is a major character in the series: and people are going to wonder if this is really it for him, or is someone going to swoop in and save him. Now, obviously major characters leave TV shows all the time, usually to pursue film opportunities, so it would not be too surprising if someone like Harrington left the show. But the possible cliffhanger will leave people asking the question.
And, no, Harrington cannot avoid interviews, and he’d be a fool to do so regardless of what is happening to Jon Snow. He has his career about which to think, after all. Moreover, it’s not like HBO or B&W are arranging these: his agency almost certainly is behind it. It is their job, after all, to keep their clients in the spotlight as much as possible. (Well, assuming that criminal charges are not involved…) And, no, they cannot worry about the details of whatever series or film their client is doing because they want to show other actors that they do a good job of publicizing actors who sign on with them.
crimethink,
I agree, a name change isn’t necessary at all–for example, Beric Dondarrion did not change his name, but he definitely came back from the dead–repeatedly. Jon has already been offered that name change, legitimacy, and a Lordship from Stannis, and turned it down because he swore a vow to the Knights Watch.
I think initially, given how much is made of his honor, Jon will reluctantly accept the Stark name, admitting that his death frees him from his vows. Regardless of how many traitors versus loyalists remain at Castle Black, Jon will see his duty shifting to protecting the younger Starks, Winterfell, and the Wildlings.
That sword cuts both ways. A young and rising actor would not want to continue playing a resurrected Jon Snow rather than being free to move on with his career (it’s very clear Kit wants to be done with GOT, btw). All that would be animating his resurrected corpse would be contractual obligation.
Daughter of Winter,
Happy new year Wintery one. I assume you are still working towards exams which is why we haven’t heard much from you lately? Keep up with the hard work, the effort will all be worth it! 😀
He will be if I get my hands on him! 😉
Matthew The Dragon knight,
heh, every TV series out there is spoiled if you know where to look. Doctor Who has learned to be very good about planting false leads, but that’s because the showrunner (Steven Moffat) is obsessed with spoilers being averted. But most productions do not worry about it because only a small proportion of the audience ever is “spoiled” by leaks: most viewers simply do not do what is necessary to get spoiled.
I’m sure he must be contractually obligated to do interviews to promote the show. Poor guy, it must be torture.
Hey, I didn’t know Kit had a son! 😉
Yeah, sure. Cause Kit Harington has nothing else to do than just standing on set in Stark armor, just in case a “fan-spy” happens to take a picture of that…
And Shae will most likely be a very small part in S6. Probably as a quick “hallucination” for Tyrion. Same thing here : they won’t fly the actress to Spain and put her in a costume just to maybe have a laugh at the expense of the fans.
And you were saying that some people were stubborn? That picture was taken from the set of the big battle that is going to happen in episode 9. There’s Sapochnik in that pic. Just how long do you think they’re going to show Jon’s corpse in S6 exactly? And why would the NW dress Jon’s corpse with a Stark armor?
It’s like some of you don’t know anything about how showbusiness works. A mere PR comment has you wondering again….and then again, makes you forget what’s already known. Make up your mind and stick to it. What do you expect them to say? This approach was the only logical option. It’s all so obvious, but some of you seem to be buying their crap. Just use common sense, think of how completely different the deaths of previous characters have been handled and draw conclusion from that. And this is just one of many reasons.
The more they’re trying to make this convincing, the more suspicious and obvious in its fakery it is.
Can’t wait for this media farce to be over soon, I hope it will teach some people not to believe every word they hear from those, whose job is to pretend.
He was left bleeding in the snow because the showrunners chose to do that. Again, why would they do that if they wanted to create suspense? It’s not a cliffhanger ending at all, especially with the director, producers, network execs, and the actor all saying he was dead.
Also, Stannis is not a major character? Seriously?
Nearly every other actor in GOT is doing interviews too. And all of them, with varying degrees of humor and tact, refuse to answer the question of whether Jon is dead. So why would Kit feel it necessary to answer unless he’s telling the truth?
Sean C.,
Great comment.
Most actors do have contractual obligations to do interviews with their agency even if they have nothing with a particular show. Agencies arrange interviews, after all, for the sole purpose of generating more publicity for their clients in the hopes of getting them more parts in the future. HBO (generally) likes this, of course: but so do all of the other production studios. However, when HBO arranges things, then it’s strictly about the show: we don’t get stuff about other projects on which the actor is working.
Young Dragon,
LOL exactly, those conspiracy theorists like crimethink are basically contradicting their own argument. Their argument is contradictory in and of itself. That’s what happens when you don’t stop to think twice about something.
Multiple photos of Shae’s actress on set => coming back for small part as hallucination
Single grainy photo of Jon’s actor on set => resurrected, primary character on the show, all hail Azor Ahai
I admit it would be kind of creepy if Tormund or Davos started hallucinating Jon.
Couldn’t be said any better. This is 100% dead on.
Just wait until the Red Carpet Premeire on April 10th lol.
GhostCR,
Well promote his other stuff then, I’m fine with that. Just tell others to ask about those projects and not GoT because him lying for so long is getting ridiculous.
crimethink,
Regarding why HBO would go with a strategy of lying about Jon’s return, rather than simply staying quiet, I think the people at HBO know how the average TV viewer thinks. If they kept saying “no comment” or “my lips are sealed” every time someone asked them about whether Jon Snow was coming back, most viewers would assume he’s coming back. Because that’s what always happens. We’ve been trained to think that way through countless TV shows where the season ends on a cliff hanger, and sure enough, the hero returns in the fall alive and well. HBO wants Jon’s return (be it by way of resurrection or a reanimation of his corpse) to be a holy S moment. And it’s definitely going to have that effect on most people.
Uh, yeah, seriously: he was a secondary character.
Kit can answer as he pleases. Obviously, it is going to come up, no matter how much Kit wants to discuss something else! Here is an apt comparison. After the Beatles broke up, the individual Beatles gave lots of interviews to promote new albums and occasional tours. And until John Lennon died, every interview turned (at one point) to: “what really happened to the Beatles” and “are you guys getting together again ever?” Kit can push his new solo album all he wants, but he’s going to get the questions about whether he has Really Left the Band and/or a Possible Reunion until the reunion happens or until it’s too late for it to happen.
Again, people here have to remember: this is not all about Thrones: it’s about the actors who have careers to promote. And that promotion has to continue until they reach icon status. Actors for every other show out there are doing the same thing: it’s just that most of us here are not paying any attention to it.
crimethink,
Having a character death as the last scene of a season is a cliffhanger by itself.
And showing him everywhere and remarking “he is gone” is trying to troll the fans.
GhostCR,
But that’s the same attire he was wearing when he died, wasn’t it?
If he s coming back, wouldn’t they make sure it is as epic as it could possible be with a badass-looking armour? The fact he’s wearing the same clothing leads me to believe he was just shooting some scenes as a corpse.
I’m sure he’s dead beacause we actually have so little -substantial- evidence.
There have been new like he was shooting a scene with Sansa Ramsay and so on in Winterfall. But where are the pics? We only have one pic and it’s not even from that scene.
It would be nice if anyone who has been paying more attention than me made a list of all the proof we have so far.
And in this list there should only be -ACTUAL- proof.
For instance I cringe when I read comments that because Davos said “he’s gone” instead of “he’s dead”, that qualifies as proof he isn’t dead. That doesn’t prove anything.
Or the fact that we have a glimpse of him riding a white horse in the trailer. Sure, after trying hard to convince everyone he’s dead, HBO -accidentally- slips up and adds new footage of Jon Snow in the trailer. That’s off the table considering how much attention to detail these guys have.
Or the fact that he “was spotted” here and there. And? Daenerys, Cersei and Maergery have also been seen together in their filming dresses. They weren’t filming though.
I need to see pictures of him, taken on different days. Wearing different clothes.
So far all the meaningful evidence I have (and if anyone hs more please link it) is:
– A picture of him (which was probably taken when he acted as a corpse, but still. It qualifies as proof as he could have actually been filming as the resurrected version of Jon Snow.)
– He was seen with episode 9 director. (It couldn’t mean anything, still, this -does- qualify as proof.)
– His name is listed in the episode 1 cast. (To me, it’s because that’s when he’s going to feature as a corpse, but once again, this is a piace of evidence).
I too agree that his arc wouldn’t make much sense if he died like that. But if he were to be resurrected, I’m sure we would have gathered shattering evidence over the months.
crimethink,
Now you’re trying to compare the importance of Jon’s character to the story (so far and beyond) with the importance of a nobody like Shae? Come on man, you’re just further embarassing yourself with each new comment.
But, again, HBO probably is not involved in much of this. Sure, B&W told the actors what to say when the inevitable questions came up: but HBO has not been doing any press conferences or other media events yet (insofar as I know). So far, it has been entirely the typical “actor promoting his/her latest stuff” interviews, which they do all the time for everything that they are doing.
Wimsey,
Not exactly…fan blogs are still mostly filled with speculation. Fans of tv shows and movies often do know a lot more than ‘just viewers’ when it comes to upcoming episodes, spoilers, leaked scenes etc.
But no matter how good the intel, movies and shows can’t compete with the amount of internal dialog, foreshadowing, and parallels that a writer can embed in such an epic-length series.
Book readers have a vastly different type and amount of knowledge of the source material, so they judge the show’s direction and cliffhangers differently than those who only know the story via the show. That doesn’t mean they’re going to guess right, but it does mean their guesses are influenced by more than what is shown on air or revealed in interviews.
I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that there are bound to be differences. If they stray too far apart story-wise, all a fan can do is pick one or the other OR enjoy them both, but consider them separate stories.
I’m looking forward (meaning so-excited-I’m-about-to-pee-my-pants) to Season 6 and the treatment D&D give Jon Snow’s death–but if it doesn’t go the way I expect, I’ll be content to wait for the book, lol.
You can take out “GOT” and put in any show or film series with a big fanbase.
HOWEVER….. you never will get fans of any of those series to accept it. It is almost as if they really believe that the normal TV and movie audience ignores their favorite franchise and that the audience is comprised solely of the fanboys! (Doctor Who fans might be the worst at this, no matter how much the ratings contradict this belief!)
Of course there are both types of interviews, but from what I know from my actor friends is that even in non production specific interviews. the actor is expected to say only what the production would approve.
Where did anybody get Stark armor for that matter? The Starks are all dead or scattered, and any of their clothiers and armorers who survived are under Bolton control. The Freys would be a good source of second-hand Stark gear, but they’d have to wash the blood off and patch the knife and sword holes, and are also Bolton allies. Nothing about that supposed appearance of Jon makes sense.
Hubo,
hahaha oh god, Just wait until the show.
That’s the best your going to get.
Oh, sure: we do not know for certain what story and plots they are trying to adapt for the first time. However, we all come to a website such as this one that distills all of the information into one place: Joe and Jane HBO Subscriber do not. So, just like (say) Doctor Who Fans or Walking Dead Fans or Orange is the New Black Fans or House of Cards Fans (etc., etc.), we know quite a bit about what is going to be happening.
In a way, we are in the position that Melisandre is in relative to other people. We have snippets of information about the future. We often have little idea about the context of those snippets, and people here are often wildly wrong about those contexts. However, we have those snippets: and most of the “muggles” do not have even that much.
Man I keep thinking back to the “working title” of the final book and see no way that the Bastard of Winterfel is done with the show. Perhaps “SNOW” is dead and most likely the truth.
A main POV character killed off that would infuriate the fan base and cause dwindling ratings for one of the most lucrative shows is pure business suicide at this point for HBO.
Now the boy is dead the man has risen and whom the man will be is the character I am curious about. But more so I am curious to how soon after we find out the answer to that question to we get a news release that WOW is about to be released and it has actually been published and ready for some time now.
That is correct. And agencies know this; moreover, they remind actors of this all the time because they want their clients to get future roles. (Many actors have someone with them who will remind them of what they can and cannot answer; in particular, agencies really do not like actors to talk about parts that they wanted but did not get!)
However, it does not change the fact that it is the agencies pushing the interviews, and that they do not care about if fanboys of one particular project think that their client should forego interviews until some key date. Their job is to get as much publicity for their clients as possible, and there are no exceptions to this. (Too often fans convince themselves that the rules are different for their franchises: but they never are.)
ah it’s a waste of time, people. Just wait for the show.
If WoW had been ready for release, then it would have been: if nothing else, then GRRM would have made a big announcement as he has for the last two. In all honesty, I doubt that it will get published before the TV series ends at this point. (GRRM recently announced that he decided to pursue a plot shift for a character that is dead on the show: and that no doubt will cause a bit of rewriting as well as new writing.)
RBloodworth,
He’s being interviewed because he’s doing a play in April and, like everyone, the journalist asked him about GoT.
If Jon is resurrected, a lot of his fans are going to be pissed that he has been lying (as one can observe on this here thread).
So again I ask, why would he lie instead of just politely declining to answer the question like all the other actors do?
So? Pissing off a few hundred fans is going to have zero effect on Harrington’s career. It will have zero effect on the shows ratings. HBO told Harrington and his agency that this is what he is to say if the question comes up.
And the other actors have been saying “he’s dead” or “they cannot talk about it.” It’s been a mix. Remember, their agents tell them what they are obliged to say before the interviews.
When Paul McCartney releases his next album, you can guarantee that he’ll get questions about songs the Beatles did 46+ years ago, too. But he’s giving the interview to promote his new album, not the Beatles. It’s the same thing here, except nobody is going to blame Jon Snow’s death on Yoko Ono.
Wow there are some incredibly stubborn people in this fandom. I was under the impression the pic of Jon filming (episode 9/10) pretty much settled this issue once and for all. People are free to think whatever they like but when does healthy skepticism cross the line into sheer denial?
crimethink,
If you’re going to war then you make armor, weapons, shields, and so on. You prepare. There are also other houses loyal to the Starks in the North (the Mormonts said as much last season when they refused to join Stannis). Jon’s not wearing NW clothes because he’s no longer a member of the NW. His vow ended with his death.
The type of armor Kit/Jon had in the picture is the same as the one Ned wore in season 1 of GoT. So, yes, it could be Stark armor, but it can also be a choice of the costume designer to signify Jon embracing his Stark heritage, or becoming the head of the Stark family like Ned was (since Jon’s the only adult left in the family that’s accounted for, and the only one who can fight and lead an army). Some meaningful, sentimental drivel of the sorts. Costume designers do that all the time (see: the explanations regarding Sansa’s wardrobe choices in season 5).
heh, Fanboy Rule #1: dismiss anything that contradicts your preconceived notions as “trolling” and you can reach the conclusion you like.
Sunfyre,
you’d be surprised how Crazy people get as time goes on.
I doubt some of them are even capable of think rationally about something like this.
or they could just be trolls XD
He is not wearing the same clothes, that is part of the clue. He is wearing Stark armour, simular to what Ned wore in season 1. His Nights Watch clothes are different from Stark clothes.
But there is something even more obvious and practical to look at here. Why would a corpe be wearing a sword? It would be highly impractical for a corpe to have a sword right by his side. And on top of that this isn’t any sword, this is a Valyrian steel sword, why would you waste a Valyrian steel sword by placing it on a corpe? And why would his corpe now suddenly have a sword? He did not have Longclaw on him when he was killed and he obviouly did not have Longclaw on his side in the trailer.
crimethink,
I hope you really don’t believe what you’re posting. No one will give a shit they’ve been misled, the viewers will just be happy about Jon being resurrected. You seem to be taking marketing campaigns way too seriously. It’s a non issue. It’s what actors are paid to do when promoting their projects. They follow a script given to them by a PR team. It’s always staged in an attempt to avoid accidental spoilers.
Steve Carell, Benedict Cumberbatch/JJ Abrams, Christoph Waltz all lied/misled the fans regarding their projects/characters. It all doesn’t matter at the end of the day. It’s showbusiness.
Well, what this really shows is that Jon is not currently with the Night Watch. The Nationalists might still be in charge. (Indeed, this is the single biggest piece of evidence against the idea that Jon will deal with the Nationalists immediately after being revived.) However, Jon might have every intention of retaking the NW after the Boltons are defeated. This in turn might be connected to finding some way to convince the Northerners that the White Walkers are real, and that they are back. Alternatively, it might be that events will conspire to let the Walkers get through the Wall: and at that point, with both the Wildlings and Walkers south of the Wall, the NW becomes a moot concept anyway.
Sunfyre,
We have pictures of Shae’s actress on set. Is she being resurrected as well?
I can totally see Kit being told not to talk about Jon’s resurrection if it were going to happen, and his agency going along with that. As you say it’s common practice for these kinds of shows.
I cannot see his agency standing idly by while he is ordered to actively lie to his fans and the general public on widely watched TV shows. That’s brand destroying stuff. It’s certainly not in his contract if he had an agent who was half awake; arguably such a clause would be unenforceable even if it was in there.
You still haven’t explained why the showrunners would even want him to say he was staying dead if he wasn’t, and if so why they would allow other actors to not say he was staying dead. I’ve already shown that it doesn’t create suspense or buzz.
Sunfyre,
Seems like it can’t be avoided, we just have to wait it out. It will be over soon.
Olly is Yoko Ono CONFIRMED! Just kidding.
Yes, I don’t know why people find this so hard to believe. When the new Star Wars movie premiered, actors from the prequels were getting lots of questions about the franchise (even when they had nothing to do with The Force Awakens).
No. However, Tyrion probably will be seeing her in one way or another.
Agencies have done this over and over again: they know perfectly well that it has no impact on their client’s future job prospects. Remember, all publicity (that does not involve murder or rape charges) is good publicity: and that is all about which the agency cares.
You have not demonstrated that at all: you have asserted it. Moreover, why would they be worried about “buzz”? The show will get plenty of buzz because of the first 5 seasons. This is not about buzz: it’s about what they want audiences to know in advance.
heh, and to think, I almost wrote “almost nobody” but I figured the joke would be just a little too silly!
As for why people find it hard to believe, fans often assume that the entertainment universe revolves around their favorite franchise. But it doesn’t. Still, those franchises have strong gravitational pulls: and if Kit Harrington is trying to promote a play, then the Black Hole of Thrones is going to be felt, anyway.
Thank the gods for that!
If TWOW isn’t released by 2017, I believe it never will be. And if there’s a tiny chance it still may be published after 2017, ADOS has no such luck. I’ve already given up on the last book ever seeing the light of day.
So picture of actor on set is not proof that the character is alive. Thanks.
Do you have examples where agencies have told their clients to lie to their public before?
I don’t see what “all publicity is good publicity” has to do with it. Is he getting more publicity by saying Jon is dead than he would otherwise?
I refuted the claims that saying Jon is dead creates buzz and suspense. You and others are claiming the showrunners/HBO are ordering Kit to lie about next season, but have provided no other reason why they would do so.
Wimsey,
True, though I can’t see him wanting to come back to the people who killed him. He can still ‘protect the realms of men’ without having to take another NW vow, which is why I imagine it’s in his best interest to take out the Boltons and put one of his siblings back in Winterfell (and I also don’t think he would be happy to hear what Ramsay did to Sansa, based on how he freaks out over fake Arya in the books).
I’ve always seen Jon’s death as a way for George to get him out of his vow and involved into Northern politics (which he had started doing in the books). He’s pretty much done with his character building arcs there.
I read in recent article that in some conference they showed the first 30 seconds of the premiere episode, that nobody was allowed cell phones, but somebody described the scene and in that scene
What do you think?
crimethink,
I’m not Wimsey, but here’s one example http://io9.gizmodo.com/j-j-abrams-admits-lying-about-star-trek-2s-khan-was-a-1475078061
Hubo,
“I need to see pictures of…”
I expect you enjoy playing devil’s advocate rather than have any real interest in literary foreshadowing. I’m sure there must be things you believe without having to see proof…
I think the photos, interviews, coy answers, etc are fun, but they aren’t “proof.” People can use the same photo to support or blast just about any fan theory.
Instead, I’ll point to a fun little jab from the writers in the dialog of the Hardhome episode (S5/E8).
Ollie comes to Samwell to voice his concern about Jon supporting the Wildlings.
Sam explains about the upcoming war with the wights and how a good man has to make difficult choices that might look wrong to others, but he knows in his heart is right, which Ollie clearly isn’t buying.
As the scene ends, Sam says, “Don’t worry, Ollie. I’ve been worrying about Jon for years. He always comes back.”
Cut to Jon at Hardhome.
Perfect foreshadowing, and pretty damn funny, to boot.
Lulus Mum,
Hey Mum Thanks, missed you so much. Yes it’s been crazy this past month but not necessarily in a bad way, what you’ve been up to? Doing the Got50?
It would be the funniest thing ever, IF HE REALLY IS DEAD !!
On a different but related topic, when will we be having those episode titles revealed? Surely, they could release the first two at least? The first 4 of s5 had been released 37 days before the season started, and now we’re only 35 days until the premiere. Are the titles so spoilery they won’t even give us that piece of information? Then again, first 4 titles for season 4 were released 35 days prior, so if the trend continues we should be getting them within days. Still I’m not digging the over-the-top secrecy surrounding this season. A short trailer, a few stills and a few interviews. Those Hall of Faces ads added nothing with regard to s6.
“I hate my hair.”
“I can’t wait to cut my hair.”
“I’m cutting my hair as soon as I’m done with the show.”
“I’m kind of attached to my hair now.”
😀 Keep plugging away, Kit.
I’d never have the patience to be an actor.
Guy Pearce,
How? Since he is dead. Right now, where they left off, he is dead. That’s not the issue, never has been, despite people’s insistence on it.
I’d like to point the cynics to Kit’s comment he made once about how he actually enjoys lying and misleading in interviews.
Hi all, just letting you know Alfie Allen is doing a live chat on my local news website in 35 minutes – link below. They are taking questions but not about S6.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/78087663/live-chat-game-of-thrones-alfie-allen-aka-theon-greyjoy
As a follow-up to my previous comment. The s3 titles were released 32 days before. So we have 32,35,37, 34 and counting down…Would be nice of HBO to throw us a bone before Easter.
harlequeen,
Eeeasy. We’ll get the titles.
What I find weird is… last year, there was oddly much information released by that perv blog detailing, of all things, nudity appearances in media. Iirc, we first learned about Sansa’s story there. And the brothels, obv.. And they reported that in January or so, I think.
This year, they don’t have anything, either. HBO must be really keeping a tight lid on the series if even, ekhm, *that* sort of information has not escaped…
Interesting all these discussions about whether a pic from the set signifies anything. Even if Kit gearing up in Stark armor/clothing etc. would mean nothing, how about the
Hey, man, get out of here with your logic and stuff!
For the most part, I find it easy to ignore posters who refuse to accept the mountains of evidence about Jon’s importance and role in S6, but this thread is just going off the rails. Sigh. Certain posters’ refusal to admit they are wrong and twisting themselves into knots so as not to admit they are wrong sometimes makes this site not-so-fun. I wonder what the arguments will be when the resurrection once-and-for-all proves these stubborn people wrong.
BunBunStark,
They will pout and say that this was weak/ predictable and their version was better. If they really believe he’s dead and not getting up. ….But I don’t think anybody does. There’s such a thing as being contrarian for its own sake.
WightsNatch,
yeah ToJ’s inclusion is one of the most important pieces of evidence.
Yaga,
I know, I’m just getting a bit impatient. I’d rather we had that to focus on already.
Benedict Cumberbatch and Christoph Waltz have taught him well.
Every time that actors have lied to the public about what they are doing in a show or in a film is an example. People have given several above. Remember, what agencies tell the actors is to stick to the script: if they do not, then agencies do not do that, then production companies will shy away from hiring their clients.
No. He’s getting interviews, which are publicity. That is all about which they care. Of course, the interviews inevitably turn to Game of Thrones, and the parts of the interviews that get any attention are the “Jon Snow is Dead” parts. Those get publicity, and that is good. And if you think that the people running his play in April are upset to see interviews about their play turn to Game of Thrones, then think again: Thrones is free publicity for their play.
One, production crews always give actors strict instructions about what they can and cannot say about shows. To be more exact, they give the agents strict instructions about what can and cannot be said. Two, they do this because they want some aspects of the season to be unknown. So, actors can give very general and very oblique summaries of what they are doing, but they also know what details have to be kept hushed.
And, again, you did not refute anything: you merely asserted that you think that a big chunk of the audience is going to react like you are reacting, that agencies would never agree to have their actors lie despite the fact that actors have routinely lied about these things under this system, and that HBO would not give these instructions. This is all just naivete on your part: what you should be doing is going: “oh, I did not know that the system works this way” instead of going “I don’t think that the system should work this way and therefore I will assert that it does not.”
More than one entertainer has joked that the biggest peformances that they give are for interviews and for fans! This is why.
You also have to look at the importance of the character and the characters arc within the story. Then you can apply some logic to the situation.
Shae did not have any Red Priestesses about her when she was killed. We also know that Tyrion is tormented by her death because he loved her and he’s been drinking a lot. Therefore it would make some sense that he could see her as a hallucination, it is his guilty conscience.
Jon on the other hand is the only main character who is concerned with the main threat of the White Walkers, he had a face off with the Nights King. He has a mystery surrounding his parentage.
The Tower of Joy scene will be done this season. Why do the Tower of Joy if Jon isn’t alive or a character in some capacity?
On top of that we literately saw Melisandre breaking all traveling records within Westeros to reach Jon before his assignation. And she can obviously resurrect him. We saw foreshadowing from Sam when he said that Jon always comes back. There are more clues, but the point is that the situation is completely different from someone like Shae.
We have the picture as a clue, but even before that most people have always believed that Jon Snow would return or somehow survive his assassination. The clues and cues from the books and the show is mainly what lead to this conclusion. The picture just leads to extra confirmation on something that most people have believed for quite a long time.
Yes, agencies have often lied before, a well known example is Benedict Cumberbatch who lied outright about his role in Star Trek.
HBO has a very good reason to keep this line of publicity going. And it is working great for them so far, just look at the interest and discussion this article is creating already.
The first season 5 trailer currently has something 7 million viewers on youtube, the season 6 trailer after about two weeks already has 25 million views, that tells you something.
Therefore when a lot of people already believe that Jon Snow will return, by having Kit Harinton saying he is only playing corpse, they are creating doubt, this in turn just generates more and more interest in season 6.
Multiple actors have been quoted or are on video saying that Jon Snow is dead. NCW, Alfie Allen, Conleth Hill and John Bradley to name a few. Why would all their agents let them lie to fans if this is such a career destroying move? Are D&D’s careers over after they finish Thrones since they said he was dead too? They can say he’s dead when he really isn’t because no one cares. All people want is for Jon to be alive. They aren’t going to go from being excited to boycotting Kit Harington and every other person because they lied about Jon Snows death.
Kit has been photographed with the ep 9 director in Stark clothes in an area that isn’t Castle Black. Are Thorne and his men just parading Jon Snows dead body around Westeros or something? And now all of a sudden Kit likes his hair after so many years of him saying he is sick of it and will cut it the minute he is allowed to? Right.
This.
Sometimes I think folks just come here to start an argument. Kit did not fly countless times to Belfast, like summer and fall, to play a corpse. Why would he be at the wrap party? Plus the pick from filming. I don’t think D&D, Kit and HBO would go through all of that trouble for him to be dead and trying to fool us.
Jon Snow's Curling Iron,
There was a lot of this stuff happening around the Doctor Who 50th anniversary episode, too. Everyone ever involved with the show was asked if they were involved, but everybody denied being involved, including people who were!
SoftSpot,
Book!Ghost is silent. Show!Ghost is not. It just looked wrong to have him making no noise, so they have had him growl, bark, etc.
If Ghost is howling, then we do not need warging as an explanation: real dogs do this when their owners are hurt or killed all of the time. (There is nothing quite as sad as a dog waiting for his/her dead owner to come home, and they often will pine for that owner for quite some time.) Moreover, the show has not introduced the possibility: and B&W are sticklers for avoiding Deus ex Machina devices like that. And, of course, the books shoot down this possibility, too:
Steve Carell on The Office:”I lied,” he teased. “I lied for months to the press, to almost everyone, really.”
He continued: “And I felt terribly for the cast and for [executive producer] Greg Daniels, because they all lied, too.”
Carell went on to reveal that he agreed to make the guest appearance “several months” beforehand, but did not want to steal focus from the cast by promoting his return.
Understandable, no big deal.
This shit worries me! Ughh
Yes, but remember that they’ve been blacklisted from any further roles because of fan backlash against their lying…..
Hubo,
Different clothes. NW Gear at death vs STARK Battle Armour at battle scene.
harlequeen,
And that’s one other key thing that fans often forget: the real world pays as much attention to their show as they themselves pay to the other shows. The fact that there are numerous examples of this happening in the past is not just evidence that it happens: it shows how little people care about it.
Woah some people are taking this personally. I don’t see why you get so worked up just because some people think that your hero will not come back.
And if I am proven wrong I will neither pout nor whine. I will just say “I was wrong”. For now all the proof we have is some fan’s whisful thinking. Nothing else. So if I were to bet, my money would be on him staying dead.
Daughter of Winter,
Missed you too! *lots of frantic waving to make up for lost time* Sky have had all episodes on repeat for the last few months, so I’ve been watching, but not in sync with the 50 day countdown. I must confess it’s just skimming tho’, then I read the write-ups on here and let people who really understand the story in depth explain the stuff I’ve missed, how it compares to the books etc.
Very excited about S6, as I’m sure most people are, partly because of no clear idea what’s going to happen despite all the spoilers/rumours etc. It sounds silly but the thing I am most looking forward to is
Wimsey,
I might just blame Yoko. I’ve blamed her for plenty over the years! 😉
Deesensfan,
I take it you stayed away from all the filming spoilers right?
Hubo,
No yours is wishful thinking. The evidence is clear. And the logic is on our side. You know you’re posting on the site that gave us those reports about Jon? If you’re not willing to rely on them, what are you doing here?
harlequeen,
Yeah, I have.
🙂
I heard about a photo , didn’t see it, but it could be a as he said.
I hope I am wrong.
I just think he needs a better media manager or something. It’s his pronouns that are the problem for me. I instead of He. He’s way too specific with weird details “I like my hair now. I’m just playing a corpse. I got the Soprano walk etc” Not Snow–he’s referring to himself, the actor.
Jon Snow is dead so Jon Stark/insert last name theory here can be born. But Kit is still there. All the show promo is so strongly Jon-centric that I’m amazed even casual watchers wouldn’t notice. No other dead character has gotten this much afterlife promotion. What he could say the next time someone asks him, if anyone does between now and then is, “It certainly looks like Jon Snow is dead. I can’t imagine he survived that.”
Now he’ll have to do his own Walk of Shame after he proves himself wrong. 🙂
Which I can’t wait for because his story-and backstory-is one of my favorites. Also looking so forward to more Davos!
Given that GoT seeks to paint a world of unpredictability and brutal injustice, it would be appropriate for Jon Snow to be resurrected, only to be killed at the end of the season again. That should make for some interesting reactions. 🙂
I do agree with that. It just seems like the Night Watch is done, the Nights Watch is part of the old order and things need to change in order to overcome the threat to the realm.
I also think the concept adds a different development arc to Jon’s character. Jon’s character has always mostly been consumed with following his duty. We slowly start to see him develop a more sophisticated sense of morality, where things are not always black and white, and where keeping to your duties or your vows might not always be the morally right thing to do.
His vows have always been his most important sense of guidance towards morality and justice. In order to actually achieve his goal he will really need to break his vows, and change his perception of what it really means to act justly or what it really entails to do the morally just thing.
I think that is mostly what his dilemma will be (and perhaps what his dilemma has always been about), he will have to keep on doing things that he does not want to do in order to achieve the larger or more important goal of trying to save the realm. Therefore he will have to adjust his perspective and notions on what his moral duty and vows truly entails, against the general perceptions of those with within Westeros or within this story.
symreal,
That’d be awful writing for the sake of cheap shock value. Even D&D aren’t that bad of screenwriters.
Personally, the Kennedy assassination was the last straw for me. I mean, JFK was bad enough: but Bobby, too?!?!?
Hubo,
I suspect that you are wrong, but I also suspect that the majority of the viewers feel as you do.
symreal,
We already spoofed it!
harlequeen,
Indeed, I agree 100%. Hopefully we don’t get to see cheap shockers of this kind.
harlequeen,
I am here to share my opinion just like you.
The site is run by multiple people and just because I am not convinced by a couple of reports doesn’t mean I don’t value the site.
I wish I could see the clear evidence you are seeing.
Logic always depends on premises. As this thread shows, people starting with different premises reach different conclusions.
Hubo,
Just curious, are you a show-only fan or have you read the books?
HotPinkLipstick,
LOL!
Brilliant!
haha that’s clever, they’re actually dropping the hints for anyone willing to pick them up–>
Hubo,
At least acknowledge that Jon is wearing Stark armor in that photograph. Putting that fact in line with the fact that he’s speaking with the ep. 9 director leads most of us to believe that Jon is no longer part of the Nights Watch (his watch ended with his death) and has been resurrected and is fighting in the battle of the bastards.
harlequeen,
can’t tell if that was an insult or compliment.
So true. There was no way a very old institution like the Night’s Watch can change, and if Jon wants to protect the realm he needs to gain a higher position of power than Lord Commander, whether he wants to or not. Jon didn’t seem like he wanted to be LC, but had to accept the position because others wanted him there. The same goes for Robb being proclaimed KITN. Poor guy probably just wanted his sisters back, but he had to accept because the circumstances demanded it. I suspect Jon will have to make similar sacrifices in season 6 and probably beyond, whether he becomes Lord of Winterfell, King in the North or of the Wildlings, Rickon’s protector, or whatever George and D&D have planned for him.
What you said about vows reminds me of this quote by Jaime: “So many vows…they make you swear and swear. Defend the king. Obey the king. Keep his secrets. Do his bidding. Your life for his. But obey your father. Love your sister. Protect the innocent. Defend the weak. Respect the gods. Obey the laws. It’s too much. No matter what you do, you’re forsaking one vow or the other.”
Matthew The Dragon knight,
what? Which part?
Wimsey,
Thanks for your comment, I forgot that in the show Ghost is not silent. I agree with you about warging. Personally, I don’t like the warging solution. Actually, I wouldn’t mind the Jon-is-really-dead option…but I don’t think it is very likely.
However, in the
scene we may find out that
is not true and in this case it would make sense for Jon to stay dead. Again..unlikely imo.
harlequeen,
That D&D aren’t that bad of screenwriters.
I just read that the wrong way, don’t mind me lol XD
SoftSpot,
Just this: True Blood. Loved the series, didn’t read the books but anyway knew the showrunners went a different way from the books for the adaptation. At the beginning the serie was anyways REALLY good, Everyone enjoy it and praised it. Last 2-3 seasons they wanted to go even more apart from the books and it end up being crappy, I still loved it but I admit it.
I love GOT too. But they have no more books to rely on, and this is HBO they are good but I think they care little what the fans or the original book writers want, they go their own way anyway…
So, as one of the GOT actors said, I’d give Jon Snow 50% chances of coming back (in any moving form)
I love this character and there are MANY signs that he could come back, but we had a very clear sign that Stannis loved his daughter and would always protect her, and now we know the rest of that plotline…
Yes to that!
I suspect that this will be a big issue on which next season will harp. For Jon to honor his vows, he’s going to have to break his vows.
However, the other problem is going to be getting other people to do the same. Unlike Jon, very few people are worried about the White Walkers returning from legend!
SoftSpot,
I don’t think that they would include a scene just to disprove a fan conjecture. It has to be for something more.
Still, they might throw us a curveball and have Jon be Rhaegar’s son by his Elia instead.
Yes. I’m curious about the second part as well. I read a review of the season 5 DVD, and in the commentary from Mother’s Mercy it was said that the notes Jon was reading in his office were from the lords who refused to send help to the NW. So Jon has a lot of convincing to do. He’ll also probably have to deal with shady people like Littlefinger, who will try to undermine Jon to further his own goals. Season 6 cannot get here soon enough.
Wimsey,
That’d make no sense since he’s said to be like Ned and Arya in appearance (in canon at least), that is has typical Stark features, and there’s so much North in him. Plus he has a bond with a direwolf and is a warg (in canon at least). One parent has to be a Stark.
Guys ignore the trolls. I read many blogs and I’ve never seen so many people respond so kindly to one. He is blatently ignoring everyones comments and only regurgitating his own ideas to make himself feel better. It’s not even worth wasting your time trying to explain. He honestly must truly be a troll trying to get a rise out of people or a fool for not being able to comprehend the clues left by GRRM and D&D in both the books and show.
Is there a chance he really won’t come back? Sure, nothing is certain, but unless there is some crazy story arc twist that somehow re kindles all the arrows pointing to the importance of Jon Snow, it will make 0 sense at all, and this amazing show will just turn into some kind of joke. But that picture of him on set pretty much kills any uncertainty of him not coming back (imho).
Also, the mystery around his death is the most widely talked about aspect of S6 so far. EVERY person on this show doing an interview has been asked about it. Why would Kit come out and say “yes i’m coming back and will be in S6”, when that would completely KILL the buzz and mystery around this season? Seems like a few here need to take a class or two in Marketing…
Not going to bother answering the dozens of people on the other side. What’s been said is all that needs to be said, probably more than what needs to be said actually.
To paraphrase a “minor” character, we shall see, Wimsey. Come the 24th, we shall see. 🙂
There’s no point in Jon staying at The Wall if he means to protect the realm. Davos gave him sound advice in season 5. The Night’s Watch is terribly understaffed and has no resources. When White Walkers and their army come, they won’t be able to hold them off. The Wall and its magic will be helpful for the time being only. The North needs to be unified and ready for the invasion. None of the Northern houses have paid attention to the recent happenings beyond The Wall. Jon needs their help. He won’t get it if he stays put, and just keeps sending messages. No one will take him seriously. He needs to go to them in person, establish his position and convince them of the upcoming threat from a position of power. First order of business is to get rid of the Boltons whose rule keeps the North is disarray. As long as they are in Winterfell controlling the kingdom, there’s no hope for any resources against WWs.
Yeah, this point really fascinates me. Because it leads us into speculation on the endgame. How in the seven hells can Jon (and his allies) convince the southern kingdoms to do anything about the White Walker threat? Most won’t believe it unless they see the proof with their own eyes. How do they even disseminate the information quickly? And what constitutes “proof” anyway? Many will consider it ludicrous. More snarks and grumpkins. Even if the Wall falls it will just be a crazy story to most. I mean the Wall itself is almost mythical to those who’ve never seen it.
Maybe the key isn’t actually to convince people… That could take too long. Could Stannis have had the right idea? Become king first. That’s the first step. Then lead everyone north for the final battle. Perhaps this is Jon’s future path. Consolidating all power in the north and south to fight the existential threat.
But then, how does Dany fit into all of this? If she arrives in time and defeats what’s left of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance in the south she could possibly unify with Jon for a final stand against the White Walkers. But there’s a shitload of plot and many big “ifs” between here and there. And there’s also this… would a Jon-Dany alliance be too predictable an ending for a writer like GRRM?
If they wanted to create suspense and buzz, they would have (a) cut away from the final scene last season before it was obvious Jon was dead, and (b) declined to answer questions about Jon’s fate. You know, what GRRM has been doing in the years since ADWD. Has GRRM been going around saying Jon is dead in the books to create suspense and buzz?
Looks like there’s a need for Marketing 101 indeed!
Considering how often he remarks on the fact that he is dead…perhaps GRRM or HBO or both are paying him on the side for everytime he says it. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if George or the directors are getting their jollies off by doing such a dickish move. (Red Wedding was more than enough proof that George in particular enjoys pulling dickish moves).
I’m no big fan of Kit’s, but I wouldn’t call him a shameless liar. I mean, sure it’s pretty silly of them to be keeping up this charade, but it’s not like it’s his call. It’s part of his job; he’s an actor. So he probably just sees it as acting through his interviews.
harlequeen,
Maybe the truth is another one, and it is linked to the
but it is not the one we suppose. As I said, I personally believe
. That would be a really unexpected and, personally, welcome twist!
If it is a case of kill off a major character to instill a shock element after the build and speculation of the birth storyline, it means js=jump the shark. A lazy writing example that should mean season 6 loses viewers in droves. I think a Stark re emergence without at least of support from a strong dynamic participent also kills off interest.
I have had conversations an been told “o i used to watch it but they killed the best character off”.
We shall see.
Writing “All work and no play makes George a Dull Boy” over and over and over…..
Sort of: in that HBO would and could sue Kit for not following the instructions while he is under contract. And his career would not recover from that: this is one thing that productions take very seriously.
There’s been no other major character in power but Jon and Stannis that has been set up in a position to warn and prepare the realm for the invasion. All the others are scattered all over Westeros and Essos minding their own business, unaware of what’s going on. Jon and Stannis know what’s up and have actually taken steps and made plans to counter it. Even the Night’s Watchmen haven’t really shown any urgency in willing to prepare themselves for the threat, let alone make sure Westeros is warned and amping up its defenses. Show Stannis is gone so it only leaves Jon. If he were gone too, then it’d be game over. WWs would come sweeping through the North, catching its population off guard, massacring everyone in sight and adding them to their army of wights. They’d spread like a fast-acting virus. Then they’d attack the South.
Sam’s aware of the big picture but he’s in no position to do anything, and he’s on his way to Oldtown. No Northerner would listen to and rally under a Red Priestess or a Southern smuggler or a Wildling. It really just leaves Jon to be the one to bring it to Westeros’ attention and make them act. How he will go about it is another matter.
This is the first out of many reasons to know Jon will be back.
SoftSpot,
Like, an extreme example, in the
I know that would not fit with the time but just to give you an idea about how the truth could be slightly different.
My bet is that you nail it on the last suggestion: they will not believe it until they see it. (And, as the old saying goes, seeing is where believing ends and thinking begins!) They probably will dismiss news from the North as Northern Superstition and/or some sort of ploy by the Northerners to lure the southerners up for a nasty surprise. After all, if the Boltons fall (and most of us expect them to do so), then the southerners will have to be assuming a hostile north. And one thing that the southerners do realize is (in both books and show) is that even if the badly outnumber the northerners, trying to fight the northerners in the North during Winter is just playing to their advantage.
But even in the North, it is going to take some doings to convince people that this is more than just another Wildling invasion. The closing script that they posted earlier this week was telling: those letters that Jon was reading were letters from Northern Lords saying “Sorry, but we don’t have any men to send to the Wall.” I.e., they clearly are not taking the “The Walkers are coming! The Walkers are coming!” letters from the beginning of the season seriously. My guess is that what it is going to take is the Walkers getting through the Wall.
harlequeen,
True. It makes me wonder if maybe Jon resurrects with some grand plan already formed in his mind. Because it will be an absolutely herculean task to unite all the factions, convince them of the White Walker threat, and lead them into battle against such an enemy.
It might take more than Jon’s leadership in war and skill in politics. He will likely need help on a supernatural scale… intervention from Bran.
One thing that the show and the books have set up is that this really is not possible. It would be like trying to convince modern world leaders that an alien invasion is imminent, or that Atlantis is going to rise from the sea and conquer the world. Indeed, the books are harsher on it than is the show: on the show, Maester Luewin admits that the Walkers might once have existed, but that they are long gone; in the books, we are told that the Maesters teach that they never existed in the first place.
What M,B&W have set up is that the Walkers are going to find a Westeros not just in disarray after a prolonged Civil War, but a Westeros filled with people who are going to be stunned to learn that, wholly shit, White Walkers do exist!
Basically, it will be like this, but a lot less cute.
Ah, yes: a voice from the trees! I think that, in his own ways, Bran might have as much difficulty communicating the issue as Jon will. I would be surprised if this is not a major issue in the next story.
SoftSpot,
There’s no other reasonable alternative to ToJ and R+L than the most famous theory. No other possibility has that much going for it within canon. Actually any of them can be easily debunked, they don’t really hold any water. Only the official version of Jon’s backstory (Ned and Wylla) can be somewhat believable. But there are holes in it, it is suspicious, why the whole mystery about it? Why make a big deal out of it? No reason for Ned to even keep it from Jon, who has the right to know. The identity of Jon’s mother has been a very important part of the plot, to the point Martin used it as a test for D&D before entrusting them with his work, it has to have a resolution eventually.
crimethink,
Actually, GRRM has made several comments about Jon and whether or not he’s dead. Way before we got to this point in the HBO series…
For an example, here’s an article with Entertainment Weekly from 2011 regarding the ending of DWTD:
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?
Full interview: http://www.ew.com/article/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g
“So you think he’s dead, do you?” Was his consistent answer when asked about Jon.
My favorite time he gave a version of that answer is from the Funny or Die Recap of Gay of Thrones, where at the end GRRM plays himself, reading “Gay of Thrones” to his grandson. If You haven’t watched it, you should! (But only if the humorous gay perspective won’t offend you.)
Grandson: Why’d you kill Jonathan?
GRRM says: I didn’t say he was dead. (Kind of grumpy, looks back down at book)
Grandson, wide eyes: Really? What happens next?
GRRM, with an evil chuckle: You’ll have to wait for the next book.
Grandson, very whiny: But I wanna hear it now!
GRRM: Get off my back. You’re going to grow up to be King Joffrey.
Gay of Thrones S4 EP 10: Future Legendary Children from Funny Or Die
There’s questions about Season 6 there. Did they say they weren’t going to take them?
harlequeen,
Well stated.
Once the Walkers get through the Wall, all the armies of Westeros won’t be able to stop them. Indeed any kind of conventional warfare against the WWs is futile, even counterproductive, as seen at the Fist and at Hardhome. Sending 100,000 men against the White Walkers in the field just gives them 100,000 more wights when it’s over.
The only way that “more men” can stop the WWs is if they’re helping to keep the Wall intact.
There needs to be a paradigm shift, and that’s probably coming from Brandon Stark and/or Dany.
lmao oh this is some ‘logic’ right there, Kit. They’ll be legit parading a corpse all over the place throughout the season because reasons. Poor guy, someone should have prepared him for the tricky questions. He totally blew it.
Well, at least he stopped lying. We all know he is going to play a corpse for the rest of the show. A walking, talking corpse.
Not that I need a reason to drink or anything, but I’m considering a Watchers comment drinking game.
The posts/arguments to watch for are:
1. Attack of Sansa
2. Big 5/6/penis
3. Defense of Sansa
4. Lecture dividing things into two groups and then mansplaining why everyone is confusing the two things
5. Kit/D/D/random actor lies
6. Despite all evidence to the contrary, still thinks Jon is dead
7. Attack of D&D
8. Defense of D&D
9. Contrast/compare Sansa/Arya
10. LSH mention
Did I miss anything?
UnJon, Lord Stoneheart, is coming to wreck shit.
crimethink,
Wow. I give you credit for sticking to your opinion lol!
Not a cliff-hanger ending? With all the show emphasis on the cult of light bringing people back from the dead? And Mel just happened to return to Castle Black? And yes, bleeding in the snow-not even confirmed dead, actually. Also show history of warging. . .all enough for a cliffhanger for me! Be reasonable!
HotPinkLipstick,
11. Obvious justifications for why Jon can’t be dead.
12. Drive-by reminders that Jaime can’t die until he fulfills his role as Cersei’s valonqar.
13. The word “protagonist.”
14. Hodor?
At this point their efforts to try and make us believe that have become cute. Go Home Kit No One is buying this!!
HotPinkLipstick,
15. Declarations that Stannis isn’t dead because we didn’t actually see head separated from body on screen
kit_hepburn,
How could I forget those?
Thank fuck we seem to be done with the word “agency” though.
Don’t know if anyone else has spotted this, but last night HBO aired a slightly altered trailer. I missed the very beginning, but some scenes were rearranged and a few were slightly longer (I think). The ending with Davos was cut.
Do people not see the brilliance in this? Jon Snow’s corpse is so important to the plot going forward the showrunners have created an entire arc for it. They will be moving the body around the North, give him a wardrobe change and a sword to “carry”. He will be given screentime all throughout to the finale, that’s how essential his corpse is. And the reason for this is because a storyline of a character whose sole purpose is to be moved about and decompose before our eyes is what this show needs, it’s top-notch writing. No one’s done it before. D+D are true pioneers. I’m in awe./s
HotPinkLipstick,
I’m in!!
phantomstrife,
not sure if the sarcasm was really needed, but more power to ya XD
I’ll just have faith in the show runners, I’ll leave it to that.
I’ve followed the show so far, Season 6 here I come.
I re-read the comments. It’s like a never-ending keg stand.
All I have to say (because it seems like an awful LOT has been said thus far) is that the fans on this site are surely ready for S6. My TWO CENTS worth – I would be so disappointed if Jon does NOT come back into the storyline..
(a) the ONLY thing they could have done to NOT make his death a “cliffhanger” is to show his body burnt to ashes on a funeral pyre..since that didnt happen HBO got almost a whole years worth of free publicity from one scene ..
(b)the first “no comment” or “I cant/wont answer that” = confirmation and the story would be over before the next news cycle..
HotPinkLipstick,
16. If they had cut X minor storyline/scene there would have been more time for Y.
possible 7a (one of my faves due to not making any logical sense, might justify a subcategory of its own?): specifically claiming D&D have butchered part of the story which hasn’t yet appeared in print, so there’s no possible way of knowing if they have changed it from GRRM’s version.
I like this game, but am not much of a drinker, so plan to use cake instead 😀
oh and 17. People who either don’t understand the difference between opinion and fact, or who state there is one and then completely ignore it.
Lulus Mum,
Make it a Rum Cake! 🙂
Texan in Westeros,
Probably closer to Coldhands than LSH. It’d be classic if Bran and Bloodraven are controlling him.
HotPinkLipstick,
And once the new series starts:
18. Has a totally over the top reaction to something – usually minor – why, oh why, oh why, oh why?!?!?!?!? on earth did they include it, when the explanation becomes very clear a few episodes later. Foreshadowing people, there is a lot of it! 😀
Sullied by Knight,
Mmmmm caaaaaake. Just realised I don’t remember seeing any cake at the Red Wedding. That should have been a warning sign, or is perhaps the real reason it all kicked off. “No cake??? WHAAAAAAATTTTT!!!” *flips tables, starts killing the groom’s guests* 😉
Methinks, at this point, that set crimethink is looking for a fight and/or argument. They’re not interested in logic or facts. Don’t feed the trolls or waste your energy on someone who’s upset that an actor is simply doing their job.
Why didn’t I think of cake? Eliminates that nasty hangover.
Though if we get into next season and “agency” comes back, I think we each have to eat a whole cake and drink an entire bottle of champers.
How is Bran going to convince anybody? He’s a voice in the wind. Why would Daeny do this? Why would she believe that there really are White Walkers?
There will not be a mass defense of the Walls. The northerners did not respond to Jon’s request for troops, and if they didn’t, then the southerners definitely are not going to buy into it. You are right that the Walkers will have a huge advantage in the open field: but the biggest advantage that they have right now is that nobody believes that they are a threat.
It has come up again, but in a new context: as in, the actors have agents and agencies (i.e., the legal representation kinds). But I am sure that it will come up again later….
Some of us thought that they might have the assassination early in Series 6 and then have Jon’s fate be a one week cliffhanger. But that really was the only other thing that they could have done other than cut it entirely.
heh, it’s kind of tough to talk about these kind of stories without using that word!
Yep…touché
I realy don’t care if Kit is telling the truth or not, I think its funny how his play, Dr Faustas, finishes its run at the end of june just in time for season 7 filming. I can’t wait to see what happens.
HotPinkLipstick,
Stannis. You missed Stannis.
is it that Game of thrones is so unpredictable at this point or the fact that people just don’t really want to believe the spoilers ?
just finished The Battle of blackwater episode, still as good as when I first watched it. Can’t wait for Watchers on the wall and Hardhome. This new Battle looks amazing 🙂 can’t wait for season 6 <3
Jesus H Christ! This whole business of whether Jon Snow is ‘really dead’ or will be resurrected is getting on my tits (and dragons) !!
We only have to wait another 30 odd days until Season 6 airs then hopefully this debate can be finalised once and for all. Its pretty obvious Harington will still be in GOT, but whether as Jon Snow who knows. Lets all stay cool and just see what happens 😉
Black Raven,
tits and Dragons!!!!!! <3
I think I just saw the same one you did. I’ve watched the trailer about 30 times since its release, so I’ve got that sucker memorized. I didn’t notice any slightly longer scenes. I even rewound the DVR to make sure. But you’re correct in that some scenes were removed, most glaringly the Davos one at the end. And one Sansa shot is inexplicably flipped and inserted later in the trailer.
I wonder when/if we’ll start seeing those 20-30 second promos that air between HBO’s other programming. Those sometimes have new material.
crimethink,
If it is true that he doesn’t care to play out the resolution to the beloved character he gave life to then I feel somewhat, I don’t know, betrayed in a way lol. In my mind I like to think that Kit has positive feelings towards the character and gets some satisfaction out of playing him, it makes my investment in what happens to JS that much more…I don’t know the right word…just more rewarding (or something lol).
90% or more of people who call themselves GOT fans do not go to fan sites, they have not read the books, they don’t know the intricate web of hints that may or may not have been laid out there in plain site.
They just watch the show when it comes on, and talk about it around the water cooler on Monday.
To us, the readers of fan sites, the searchers of spoilers, the readers of books the out come may seem obvious, but we are in the minority. These interviews where he says “Jon Snow is dead yo, deal with it!” are not for us. It’s for the majority of people out there.
I’m totally fine with them lying (assuming they are) to the mass population because the mass population is what keeps this show moving forward with a massive budget doing things I never imagined could be done on screen.
John Snow is dead! Long live John Snow!
harlequeen,
Or BOTH parents 🙂
Honestly, the resurrection is a done thing and this is a non-topic.
One thing that irks me is that I will likely have to way until next year (maybe the filming this season) to see SanSan destroyed and its ashes scattered on the cold winds, and hear the angry ululation of its fans as they mourn their broken ship, its remains left deserted, desolate and smouldering alone in the Arctic waters.
Now, *this* is still a much, much less confirmed thing at this point, unfortunately. :-/
Daughter of Winter,
Happy New Year and lots of happiness, my friend!
In five weeks Jon will return, no matter what his (true) name might be.
Even though the Northern storylines are the ones I care about most, I am so, so over the whole Jon Snow issue at this point. I’d much prefer if we (and the media) spent the rest of the time till the premiere paying attention to the other cliffhangers, possible character pairings, and storylines (Stark storylines included)… though I fear my hopes will be in vain.
I don’t think he is doing this by choice. I am pretty sure he is required by HBO to give these interviews. They will keep bringing up this topic right until the new season airs, because even after all these months, this is still the most discussed topic among the show fans (at least from what I see online). Besides, while people who follow the show on sites like these know he is coming back, casual fans don’t. I mean, almost all of my friends who watch the show are casual viewers and none of them feel that confident that he is coming back.
But yeah, as somebody who follows this show regularly, to hear the same lies repeated again and again, it gets a bit tiring. Nobody is at fault here though, they are only doing what they feel they have to do to promote the show. Besides once the new season airs, Harington will have to put up with being called a liar, which could become unpleasant for him.
Yeah right Kit. What about those sneaky set photos of you dressed in Stark armour. King of the North much?
MrXAA,
Of course he is committed to the lie ,it is probably in his contract, and even if it isn’t he would look like a bit of a douchebag to the rest of the crew if he just did the rounds telling everybody that last years cliffhanger was a lie and he isn’t really dead for good.
Never seen a dead character (for now) get so much publicity. It’s become the biggest focus of the media’s attention. And HBO is milking it for what it’s worth. I bet they’re glad TWOW isn’t out yet, and they get to make the most out of this plot twist. I picture HBO’s execs standing around in a circle, smirking to each other and rubbing their hands with glee.
Hubo,
Are you dumb or a troll
Ygritte,
I don’t see any reason for Kit to dislike his character. Now he might be really annoyed by the never ending questions and, as a matter of personal taste, he might dislike long hair (although he is damn wrong with that!), but he has done nothing to show this isn’t a pleasant acting job for him. It is a job, of course, but when it’s about creative work, one is even grateful to get to do something interesting – as opposed to so many times when there’s no such luck! I’m speaking from experience.
Roast,
“We are the readers of books and WOTW, we are the searchers of spoilers…” Methinks this is our oath.
For those old enough to remember, this is the “Who Shot J.R.” of this generation. It has generated the same type of hype and speculation.
If you must have more evidence:
1. TOJ would be a major waste of HBO money to shoot if he were not still alive and studio’s don’t just waste money.
2. Bastard Bowl would not have been shot for the same reason (we see Stark Banners for it) not to mention the knight riding in on a white horse to save the day picture. Plus other pictures.
3.The Wall and Watchers would no longer be needed for the show without him as 50 men at a wall are no longer relevant to the story.
So many major scenes shot around Kit and at least for certain the TOJ this season would be extreme waste of money if he was not in it till the end. But hey i could be wrong I mean they did waste tons on Dorne and Sam and Gill love line.
“While all answers are replies, not all replies are answers” 🙂
A B5 fan, I see!
Lol
Shy Lady Dragon,
Well said that’s a good oath I hope you are well my lady
I’m on a rewatch at the moment, that was by Ta’Lon. It’s a goldmine for great quotes 😀
I see a lot of G’Kar in Tyrion…so is Jon Snow going to be GoT/ASOIF’s John Sheridan…?
and as for Delenn/Dany 😉
dragonreborn,
he is not.
One of my favorite characters in any scifi show. Dany certainly reminds me of her in some aspects. Her character would fit the “Bittersweet” Grrm has made mention of.
I keep repeating myself here…
Jon’s been set up as a heroic figure and had this huge moment with the Night King in Hardhome.
The show established the possibility of resurrection via the Lord of Light in season 3 *and* had Meli learn about it.
Then Meli arrives at the Wall just in time for Jon’s murder at the end of season 5.
And then of course we have the scenes from the trailer with Davos apparently getting into a fight with some of the brothers over Jon’s corpse.
And all that supposedly meant/means nothing? If so: Bad writing/storytelling. But I suppose I wouldn’t put that past the people who gave us the pointless Dorne-arc last season, culminating in the infamous “bad pussy”-line.
Oh well.. we’ll see.
Sascha,
Fat Pink Mast,Myrish Swamp,i can point out more but that means that i have to torture myself by re-reading AFFC and ADWD,the point is Martin is not exempt of terrible writing and besides i doubt that D&D would not bring Jon back if Martin did,he’s not some shoved in plot device like Young Griff,he’s one of the main characters .
I seem to recall that it culminated in Jaime showing us that he was not Tywin II. And I think that you need to take the Nate Silver approach on this. Yes, Dorne was the worst plotted of the storylines: but if that is you worst plotting, then the average plotting probably is pretty good.
But I entirely agree with your main point. M,B&W have hung too damn many guns on the wall (or at the Wall). It’s enough so that when this does happen, although it will surprise 90% of the viewers, most of them will go: “oh: I should have seen that coming…..”
Better resurrect him or you will lose a huge amount of viewers! Anyway Jon’s words to Arya (Book 1 when they part) , “Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle” still haunts me. I don’t say it is necessarily a foreshadow, somehow my gut tells me that there will be an I-told-you-so moment.
I just noted the other day that when I first read Cersei say that she and Jaime would depart the world together, I immediately thought of G’Kar strangling Londo, and how the way that it unfolded turned out to be very different from what most of us first thought it would be like when we caught a glimpse of the future in (I think) the 3rd series.
B5 might be very apt for looking at GoT. I suspect that the Walkers vs. Trees vs. R’hllor might unfold much like the Vorlons and Shadows, where we realize that “there ain’t no good guys, there ain’t no bad guys….” but just different sides with different agendas. (Both JMS and GRRM are atheists/agnostics with Catholic parents: and tearing down false gods seems to be a pasttime for such people!) As such, I expect that the zenith of the story is going to be Jon, Daeny and Tyrion doing what John and Delenn did: staring down the “gods.” However, I also suspect that the resolution might be different: instead of casting down the gods, Jon, Daeny & Tryion might work towards some resolution that distributes the suffering evenly.
Excellent call! A lot of people think that the “bittersweet ending” will be characters dying. However, you can do more bittersweet endings with people living. Delenn was a good example of that.
B5 really was an outstanding SciFi series. It wound up having an impact, too: we would never have had FireFly, the modern Battlestar Galactica, Lost or the modern Doctor Who without it, and it was one of the first TV shows to do seasons as series rather than a string of episodes. Sadly, B5 fizzled badly at the end, but that was not entirely JMS’ fault: they thought that there would be no Series 5, so they rushed the big plot elements of Series 5 into Series 4, which both muddled the Series 4 story quite a bit, and then left them with just a desultory sequel for the main show after they belatedly got a green light on Series 5! Still, it was 3.5 years of great TV.
Well, they would if people hung out at water coolers anymore!
But you are right: 90% of the viewers of anything are not “fans” in the way that we are. Fans do well to remember it: our favorite franchises are driven by casual viewers and/or readers, not whack-jobs like us. ( 😀 ) That means that our favorite TV and film franchises succeed or fail based on judging by the usual parameters by which people judge TV shows (and the same ones that people here use to judge other TV shows).
OMG! YES!! I haven’t rewatched B5 for a long time, should do that this summer, one of my most favoriteeeest shows of all time! And a goldmine for great quotes, I agree. (“The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between.” – From one of my most favorite episodes!) I have this idea – only 2/3 more years will tell – that the endgame of GoT will be similar in one idea to B5!
So who is the GoT equivalent of Londo Mollari? 😀
Sean C.,
Best comment here
I wonder if melisandre will hump jon snow back to life. I’d come back for that. Then die again after.
Kay,
Londo is such a unique character it’s hard to come up with parallels. Maybe Stannis? A man who fears power but finds himself drawn to it, who commits atrocities for what he sees as a greater good, but which ultimately cause his downfall, and whose actions are informed by mysticism and prophecy. I think there’s something there
I find myself hoping that the endgame in GoT will be similar to B5, where the main story arc ends earlier than expected and the remaining episodes deal with fallout and new threats. Hopefully if it happens in the series it won’t be quite as early, GoT doesn’t need a Byron. Holy fuck was he terrible.
crimethink,
You’re a complete idiot.
It’s an insult to a professional studio to say it would waste part of its budget and manpower just to troll a marginal percentage of the viewership off-season. It doesn’t compute. No pragmatic and greedy exec would ever allow it. And if a dumbass like that did happen, they’d try to make a splash out of it at least in the hopes of reaching the bigger audience. Kit kept a low profile while in NI (he succeeded more often than not) and we only got one set photo of him taken from afar. The set was heavily guarded, just like the Castle Black one.
FWIW, D&D say this is the best season yet: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/21/game-thrones-season-6-best
I don’t think there is a good match really ( yet, until we see how the books and series play out) but he has a bit in common with Varys: Londo working covertly for the restoration of the Centauri Empire / Varys for the Targaryens. Neither of them seem too concerned initially about collateral damage. Londo’s arc was pretty complex really, and there is a little of Littlefinger’s agent of chaos but where LF seems very cynical Londo is merely misguided through patriotic fervour but both have moments of hubris.
Obviously Londo wasn’t much like Varys in personality though, Londo introduced as comic relief and with all of his…attributes still intact 😉
The major thing about Londo was that he had several chances to set himself on a better path and redeem himself but chose not to, so his arc was all about choices and consequences. If anything that is the core of Cersei’s arc but I can’t see any good fit.
I don’t think it serves to look at any character matches so much, as it does – as Wimsey wrote – to look at the arcs and how both series attempt to bust open viewers/readers assumptions or expectations of a straightforward good vs evil showdown.
EDIT – I see Cosca’s remarks about Stannis and that is also a good call.
I’m going with the Night’s King as Kosh.
Night’s King: The avalanche has already started; it is too late for the pebbles to vote.
If Londo = Stannis, how about Melisandre as Morden? Or is the Shadow Baby a bit too literal?
How will this end?
Kosh: In fire.
The avalanche has already started; It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
I see a great hand reaching out of the stars.
Eamont,
Thats exactly what i believe. “Jon snow” is dead but his body will host azor reincarnated.
BunBunStark,
I thought the scene with the wall of shields was slightly longer because I don’t recall them slamming into the ground in the original. I could be wrong. I started noticing the differences when Tyrion’s voice over ended up on Dany instead of Sansa.
Oddly enough, they were very upset that GRRM had not yet finished Winter as of a year or two ago. It is possible that this is just some higher-ups looking at him as just another script writer. However, I always worried that there were some clauses in the agreements that stated that certain things could not be on the TV show until they were out in the books. (In 2008, that seemed like a no-brainer because GRRM was certain that the book series would be done shortly after the TV series came out, if not before.)
Tyrion really is the closest thing to a Londo equivalent. But others are right: Londo was kind of unique.
heh, I would say that Londo and Stannis are completely antithetical! Londo, like Tyrion, loved the Game for the Game’s sake: Stannis disdained it. Londo was a very “grey” character: Stannis was black and white. Londo oscillated between thinking the whole thing was a joke and bitterly ruing that he was stuck in the joke; Stannis never could see anything as a joke. But most of all, I think that Londo cared: his issue was that he couldn’t decide exactly what it was about which he cared most. Stannis never cared about anything: he was a soulless automaton programmed to do “duty” at whatever cost.
Londo also was a good case of a bittersweet ending. He got exactly what he always coveted, even if he did not realize that he’d coveted it: but he took it for completely different reasons and at a huge cost. In the end, his “dream” was a sacrifice, not a reward.
Number 1….. Jon is wearing different closes( Ned Stark Armor) not the Knights Watch gear that he shows up wearing in the trailer.
Number 1… You cant figure out what they would show his body?? Because they are trying to resurrect it.
The First Sword of Ireland,
I’m am well, thank you! It’s very good to hear from you again. Welcome back!
THIS
Exactly. “What is your take on religion and will our lord and savior R’hllor bring you back from the dead?”
I haven’t read all of the previous comments on this post, so I apologize if this has already been brought up. Why do people feel that the NW has to declare Jon Snow’s watch ended in order for him to leave and fight the Boltons. In the books,
, so why can’t he just do that in the show, after he is resurrected?
Wall Builder,
Jon is going to be deemed a desserter from the Nights Watch by some if he does this. Of course, as Lord Commander, it is his duty to defend the Wall: but it also is his duty to not get involved with poltics south of the Wall. This is classic Martin: the bows do not take into account the possibilty of Westerosi attacking the Wall.
As it is, Jon also is going to be deemed a traitor for letting the Wildlings into the kingdom. So, Jon probably is not going to be Ser Popular.
Yeah, he’s been nothing but grateful and complimentary in regards to the character/show. He’s trying to misdirect as instructed, but he’s definitely back.
This interview was very good. Kit came across as very thoughtful and respectful and I think the journalist was rather charmed (“pre-raphaelite mouth” – ha!). Kit said that bit about Jon Snow to politely get the question out of the way, but was happy to talk further about his experience on GoT in general, and commented quite astutely about the appeal of sex and violence in tv/movies and how attempting to dehumanise/sanitise it patronises the audience.
Jon Snow is dead. He will not return. If his corpse is resurrected, it will be some version of Jon… but not him. And I’m sure the show will make sure to mention it several times… and yet people and “journalists” will completely ignore it anyway and scream about how “Jon Snow is back!”
iridium,
Thats good to hear. I havent actually listened to the interview yet. I was responding to poster who said something to the affect that it was clear Kit wasnt into the role any longer. Im curious now what made thwm think that.
Melisandre glamouring Jon’s face on someone else?
joffreysbleedingeyes,
Yeah, I really don’t understand why he’s wording things the way he is. It’s one thing to misdirect the fandom so the element of surprise is preserved, it’s quite another to outright say that he himself, the actor, is done with the show. Unless he isn’t lying. Everybody says Jon Snow has to live or the story doesn’t make sense, etc. and that he might go by another name when he gets revived. Well people, what if it’s not just the surname or title that changes but the look of the man himself. Maybe Kit IS off the show now that the “corpse” filming is over and the resurrected “Jon” will be a WW looking dude, or wear a mask like the Mountain, or be inside Ghost and find Nymeria and become co-leader of the wolf pack she’s been running with lol? One of the other actors, I forget who, said there’s a “twist” with Jon. Nobody really knows what that twist will be and it;s probably a bit more than just “He goes from being called Jon Snow to Jon Stark (or Targaryen if you prefer.)” The one spoiler pic we had in a certain uniform could very well be one of Mel’s visions in the flame, that we get to see past tense. It might not be Kit Harington playing “Jon Snow” anymore, at least, maybe not until next season.
Cause something tells me we are in for a bit of disappointment. This is GOT, after all.
Ygritte,
He is lying, that’s it! The fact that so many people seem convinced by his lie tells me that he might be a very good liar 🙂 .
And it is not just one pic that we can base our assurance on. Even before this pic emerged, we had already been informed about the details of
And regarding what Maisie said, what constitutes a twist for a casual viewer may not necessarily seem like a twist to people who keep up with the filming and stuff. She most probably would have been speaking about his resurrection, that’s it.
Wimsey,
Hello Wimsey, I just want to say that you are doing an incredible work here by sharing what you know about film and tv. You are truly passionate about storytelling (and strategic thinking and… Occam’s razor, surely ;-). I’ve worked on some film sets and with screenwriters as well as marketing teams in the media and I appreciate the amount of peer2peer knowledge sharing you’re doing here. #ThumbsUp
ghost of winterfell,
I see what you mean about Maisie and that she might have been speaking to the casual viewers. The twist she refers to could very well be the res itself, yeah. I didn’t remember where the second hand filming spoilers came from. If Sue substantiated them, then I’m all in. This gives me life again, as the kids say 🙂
Exactly. Not everyone watching the show has read the books, has knowledge of the lore and myth; and digested and thought about the fan theories for the several years since ADWD was published. Saying that though in the near year since since the finale of season 5 it would be hard to stay totally unsullied…and not have a suspicion that something other might be going on than yet another main character snuffing it.
Kit Hairyton,
Same. Anyone who counts him as a fave character I’m sure feels the same. If he does come back as something inhuman or someone unlovable and stays that way many of us might regret we ever got involved in the series. Maybe not in the long run, only time will tell. I’ve always had a thing for the brooding hero/rugged warrior archetype (Snow/Aragorn et al). I think that’s one reason I enjoy fantasy/medieval themes 🙂
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
With social media being what it is I think at least the younger stars of the show would realize that with how much has been discussed/hyped even the casuals would be aware of that particular S6 event/theory.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Thank you it was like watching the kettle boil it felt like getting on here everyday was slowing down time ha, so I took q break came back to an unbelievable trailer and now a little over a month left so excited and that trailer made the hairs on my body stand up, no show has ever had an effect like that on me
Ginevra,
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHA
All the actors keep telling us they can’t spill the beans but why does he keep telling us he will be a dead body? Gotcha, right? Well, if it is true then maybe he will come back later on. A hero always comes late when people r in most need. It is too early for him to rise. Hope spot watch at least foreshadows for that, thigh. And, BTW, I want the Starks prevail, too.