You thought things would stay dull in the Game of Thrones off-season? Ha, as if.
HBO has unleashed their latest campaign today, just in time for the release of Game of Thrones: The Complete Sixth Season on Digital HD. What’s the deal? I hope you’re not sick of politics yet, because HBO is inviting fans to join a brand new movement: The GoT Party!
Described by HBO as “One party that everyone can get behind,” TheGoTParty is asking for our help selecting the very first Game of Thrones Party ticket, and for us to pledge support for our candidate. You can choose from GoT leaders such as Daenerys Targaryen, Jon Snow, Cersei Lannister and Petyr Baelish- after checking out their platforms, of course.
The GoTParty will run until August 31st, and will be updated with original video content, real-time polls and infographics. You can keep tabs on the goings-on on social networks with hashtag #GOT2016. On September 1st, a final winner will be announced, assuming there are survivors.
Make your voice heard: who will you support in this election? Vote!
Hodor!
This is awesome!!
This is honestly so great.I cracked up reading all the profiles.Voting has never been this easy lol
HAHAHAHA ‘Innovation in Transportation’ HAHAHA I just can’t stop laughing.
Love this! I’m a Jon Snow supporter myself, of course.
I for one really like Jon Snows immigration policy….
And I am quite scared about Cerseis ideas on trials/justice…etc.
Cersei’s ”separation of church and crown/state” is gold.
Finally, a third party I can get behind.
So according to HBO Jon has almost as many titles as Dany now xD
Former Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, King and Warden of The North, Leader of the Free Folk, Wielder of Longclaw, Master of Ghost, the Lord of Light, R’hllor’s, chosen son.
I mean wow.
Mihnea,
Innovation on transportation might take the cake for me I literally spit out my water while reading it.But honestly every line in Cersei’s profile is gold.I also quite support Jon’s Inheritance rights for illegitimate children lol
So Jon is ”center-left”
Dany is… ”left”…? No idea here.
Cersei is ”far-right authoritarean”
And LF is a ”populists” or depending ”center-right”
Would these fit?
Rhaenys Stark,
I love that Master of Ghost warrants a title lol
Jenny,
“Innovation in transportation” is pure gold!! It’s the show making fun of itself… Love it!!!
Mihnea,
“Left-wing nationalism” for Jon, maybe?
A dornish Tyrell,
Perhaps, but he doesn’t really fit the ”nationalism” part in my opinion.
He could though, depending on what he does in S7
Mihnea,
I think these would be accurate.Dany sounds quite left until you reach “Restoring her Divine Right to the Seven Kingdoms” haha
Mihnea,
I was thinking “nationalism” in the sense of “national self-determination”… since they’ve just declared independence and he seems to approve it. 😉
#I’mWithHer Dany/Tyrion2016!
I love this!! Finally a party I can support!!
The White Wolf all day long. Lyanna Mormont on the ticket is gravy.
“Night’s Watch… (SHHHHINNNG)…WITH ME!”
Jenny,
That’s what threw me of!!
A dornish Tyrell,
Ah, yeah, could work.
But I thought Petyr Baelish and Cersei Lannister were already running?
Mihnea,
That’s game of thrones for you.Reading Littlefinger’s profile in a modern political context you realize he is basically Frank Underwood from House of Cards lol
carbonUnit,
Please don’t compare LF with Trump…
It is simply insulting to LF. He may be evil, but he is smart.
LOL at “Transportation Innovation”.
Snarkaryen/Mormont all the way!!!
Also, GoT wiki take note, Dany is classified as Queen of the Rhoynar while Cersei isn’t. The griping on this has always annoyed me. It’s not a large leap in logic to figure that the show deal Jon Arryn and Doran negotiated simply included that no king thenceforth could claim to be King of the Rhoynar in their title, as they previously had. This would obviously not apply to Dany. Simple way to avoid confusion in early seasons while still maintaining the book title historically, as Dany (and her promotional material) would indicate.
Behind the scenes, Varys is orchestrating it all… This vote is rigged, I tell you!
Jon & Lyanna!!!! Apart from baby Bear being awesome, she is named after his Mum #dreamteam
Nice to see our KITN is winning so far.
“Innovation in transportation” made me laugh. I was tempted to vote Baelish but went with Jon because King in dah Norf!! and all that… Plus he’s got Lyanna Don’t-call-me-Little-Bear Mormont. How could this world go wrong with that? 🙂
Ok this is actually hilarious.
LF platform plank – “innovation in transportation”!
Also noticed Jaime is not Cerseis running mate… Hrmmm
Jon has more titles than Dany now
Snow-Mormont 2016!
I’ll have peace on those terms!
THE KIT IN THE NORTH!
Halfman,
Of course he’s winning.I’ve forced every person I know to vote lol.It’s going great so far
Mihnea,
Jon is definitely left, especially when you look at his refugee policies.
I see Sansa is LF’s running mate lmao. Lol he seriously has nobody else in his corner except for Sweetrobin.
When Jon and Dany meet it will take like 10 minutes for their titles to be uttered. And Master of Ghost is a very important title. They forgot to add Father of Manbuns though…
Cant we support the Crow’s Eye ?
We sooooo need T-shirts for this.
I hate they put Sansa with Littlefinger … Poor Sansa. She is a Stark … she will always be a Stark.
My vote is for Jon, obviously … but I wish Jon and Sansa will be in the same team in Season 7.
keltia,
Well the got party has thought of your needs and you can pledge your support by buying t-shirts lol
Jenny,
Keep up the good work ???
Mihnea,
I’ve had this discussion with friends in the press. He has almost complete media saturtation. He says something bat shite crazy and his face is plastered on every news site for weeks. Seems pretty calculated if you ask me.
This is gold. But one thing threw me off ‘Divine Right to the Seven Kingdoms’ is BS. She has no rightful claim on the throne since Targs lost it to Baratheons. She can only retake it through conquest. And if anything Jon has a better claim if he is legitimate.
They should have added ‘progressive migration policy’ to Jon’s platform.
Also lol @ Sansa Stark being Littlefinger’s running mate. She is still under his spell eh?
Icekhione,
You do realise this is just for fun, right?
I want Dany off the Dany/Tyrion ticket. Then I’ll vote.
Or how about Seaworth/Tarly, the party of wisdom? Or Olenna to be in charge of anything, really.
Love these titles! My man Jon Snow is moving up! Lol. On a serious note, Jon would never brag about his titles unlike Dany who thinks she’s owed something because of her titles. That’s why #I’mwithJon2016
Like others, “Innovation in Transportation” had me in stitches. I love that they’re poking fun at themselves.
I know it’s all just for fun, but something that bugged me is how can Jon be both King and Warden of the North? It can only be one or the other, right? I do love that he has so many titles now, my favorite being ‘Leader of the Free Folk’ and ‘Master of Ghost’.
Interesting that Lyanna is Jon’s running mate and Sansa is Petyr’s. A sign of things to come in S7?
I really wanted to vote for Lyanna and Jon, but I had to go with the proven pragmatic leadership of Tyrion and the sheer girl-power of Dany!
Cersei’s Brain,
#ImWithHer Dany/Tyrion2016!!
Just want to know why Jon isn’t with Davos…
Davos as Secretary of State. He would do a good job with negotiating.
I had to vote for Jon for several reasons:
1) Lyanna Mormont is with him.
2) He’s the only one who seems to be interested in dealing with climate change and the invading army of the dead.
3) He’s dealing with the wildling refugee crisis quite well, even when it’s politically unpopular among some of his voting base.
4) He’s willing to put the good of the realm before his own personal advancement.
My second choice would be Daenerys and Tyrion. I think they’re generally well-intentioned, but a bit reckless. Tyrion may help tone down the recklessness a bit, but I have my doubts about the Dothraki and Ironborn soldiers remaining well-behaved in the chaos of conquest (and in the aftermath). Also, the use of dragons could certainly be justified against the army of the dead, but I’m generally opposed to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Sure, they seem to be quite well prepared for conquest, but do they have a plan for all the reconstruction and peacekeeping afterward?
Littlefinger would be my third choice. He’s a greedy scumbag, and willing to create a lot of chaos and destruction to get the power he wants, but I think if he actually got the power, he might make an effort to rebuild, as long as he was getting a cut of the profits from it. He would probably establish some kind of crony oligarchy so that he (and those who supported him) could live well. He would probably also have some kind of secret police to kill off anyone who tried to oppose him.
Cersei…no. Anyone but Cersei. She’s basically the Donald Trump of Westeros. She’s reckless, totally in it for her own gain (puts very little thought into the actual work of governing), not as smart as she thinks she is (I give Qyburn most of the credit for her recent win), and willing to throw away any pretense of morals if that’s what it takes to win. She was perfectly willing to arm religious fanatics and use them against her rivals, and only decided to support “Separation of Church and Crown” after she lost control of the monster she created and it turned against her. She claims she has tons of money and a great credit rating, but really the money ran out, and she borrowed a lot from the Iron Bank and didn’t pay it back.
Icekhione,
Dany believes she has a divine right to the throne. Most outsiders don’t think so but that won’t matter to her. Really no one has a divine right to anything, not in Westeros or the real world but that has never stop some from believing it so. Look at the crazy guy in North Korea. Entitlement is huge in Westeros, most highborns suffer from it, some more than others. I would imagine being able to hatch dragons and being resistant to fire makes you even more of a believer in your divine right to conquer and rule. In a way, Jon is lucky to have spent his life as a bastard (highborn yes but bastard nonetheless) and having spent some time living the Wildling life. That taught him to 1) curb his ambition and 2) learn that the kneeling way is not always the best way.
This is brilliant. Jon and Lyanna all the way!
Lol yes! I wonder if they’re going to incorporate that into the show. Maybe not Master of Ghost, but Leader of the Free Folk? He’s certainly going to have some reputation circulating. Just as long as it’s not “presumed deserter.”
I read “R’hllor’s, chosen son,” as “Rhaegar’s chosen son” ?
I answered the call! The Lady of Bear Island, ftw.
Jon needs to appeal to the all important women demographic! Every other team is guy/gal and hence Jon needed to bring on a woman (Girl ) on his team as well.
Dany should win this just based on Tyrion being on her team.
They are not being very subtle in trying to tell us where Sansa’s loyalties now lie, are they. I am still not buying it, lol. If I had to guess, they will make it look like she is with LF for the majority of S7, only to turn on him in the end.
I proudly wrote in Baratheon/Seaworth in 2012, and will do so again this time.
They forgot “King Crow”. 🙂
White Wolf-Lady Baby Bear ticket FTW!
Tar Kidho,
Most likely! 😀
Pretty Crow,
Exactly! Make the North great again xD
Littlefinger’s death has been in the cards since the very beginning. Let’s all relax and enjoy his cunning while it lasts (shouldn’t be long, now) 🙂
The whole thing is very well-crafted and genuinely funny ! Well done HBO ! ^^
Daenerys’s platform makes her sound even more fascistic than Cersei : an autocratic leader who wants to “liberate” people. “Peacekeeping in volatile regions”, hmm… Also, why didn’t she get the “Lord of Light” title ? According to the Red Priestesses in Meereen, she is it too. Let’s not dismiss the fact that we have two candidates running on the same “chosen one” platform here. Tyrion helps balance the ticket but he is a “believer” now. What if his critical thinking suffers from it ?
Cersei…While the separation of Church and Crown is an excellent idea, the rest is just no-no.
Jon would be a definite “yes” if it were not for the jingoistic (though awesome) running-mate. Put Davos on the ticket, for Pete’s sake ! Jon does not need to pander to the young woman demographic in such a blatant manner; his hair and downtroddeen puppy look do the job already. Also, with him, we’re guaranteed another “where’s the birth certificate?” crisis !
Littlefinger… Political science says yes; he is by far the most qualified, the most level-headed and has a very interesting “rags to riches” lifestory. And I do want some of his “innovation in transportation” (you get a jetpack, you get a jetpack…) ! But he is a cold-blooded murderer so…
Where is the Tyrion/Davos ticket we deserve ?
Oh, that pair would be too awesomely sensible. I don’t think Westeros would deserve them. 🙂
I don’t know. I wouldn’t put it past GRRM to keep him until the very end. After all, he said before that the character he identified most with was LF, the master manipulator (and who’s better in manipulating his readers than GRRM? LOL).
Yes to both.
Sam,
ACME,
Looking at the poll, LF is the biggest gainer as compared to the last time I checked the poll, he has gone from 6 to 16%, lol!
I expected ACME’s reaction to Lyanna Mormont 🙂 . I think she is awesome, but I agree I would have preferred Davos on the ticket.
I can’t decide whose platform is more hilarious, Cersei or LF
LF’s “purveyor of beauty and discretion” and “innovation in transportation”
Cersei’s “separation of church and crown” , “pro trial by combat”, and “knows that love wields the power to destroy all men”!!
I wish I could have been in the room when HBO’s marketing department came up with this, lol.
The most interesting point was “the Lord of Light, R’hllor’s chosen son, is resurrected in Jon Snow.”, when we have yet to see an on-screen confirmation of this. This is similar to HBO’s infographic confirmation that Rhaegar is Jon’s father, as opposed to onscreen confirmation.
#JoBear2016 !!
ghost of winterfell,
As much as I believe LF has the skills to get to the top, it’s likely the jump in his % is mostly due to Sansa. She is still one of the most popular characters of GOT!
I was surprised by this, too. Maybe they just needed to beef up Jon’s titles/credentials so they added that. 🙂 But notice that there was no specific mention of TPTWP or AA.
I’ll wear this pin if it’s available. 🙂
Ha ha ha ! Very true. They’re the candidates we need (but won’t get), not those we deserve…
Also, how about Meera/Sam ? Brave, loyal, intelligent, fierce on the outside; soft, creamy, resilient, infinitely knowledgeable on the inside.
As for Littlefinger making it to the finish line, I can only hope you are right. And I do know I am in the tiny, slightly pathological minority here ^^
His story arc does seem to point towards an eventual death, to be honest. But hey ! Any extra time is fine by me 😉
Really ?!? Now, that’s hilarious ! Maybe he’s rigging the vote… ^^
And, as Sam pointed out, Sansa’s name on the ticket must help somewhat.
About Lyanna… Am I that predictable ? Damn ! 😉
I do love me some Baby Bear but she is 10, for heaven’s sake ! That is child labour. Let her come back in another decade; she’ll have more experience and an extremely decent shot.
And you’re absolutely right about the Lord of Light thing ! The promotional material will end up being more informative than the show itself… ^^
OK, for the sake of that rather awesome tag, I might be tempted to vote for them…
So it’s JoBear (Winter is coming + Here we stand = Here we come !) vs. PetSa (Knowledge is coming) vs. Qynnister (Hear me burn ?) vs. DaetynerionisLantarnigasterien (Blood and fire… And freedom and justice as well, sometimes ?)
Let’s get ready to rumble ! 🙂
Ooh, I like it! That or #TeamCurlyBear!
?
Sam,
I think the most probable explanation is not Sansa but that a lot of people like trolling lol it happens everywhere.Otherwise Dany would be winning because Tyrion is literally one of the top most liked characters
Voted ! Jon & Lyanna for the win !
#SnowMormont
They may not have used the word AA, but they pretty much described AA here.
Unless there’s a Dondarrion/Hound ticket, I think I’m going to abstain from these elections.
“Picking our sides in the great war to come” eh? Jon “Lord of light?” Well, well they are giving a couple things away here, and I’m liking it 🙂
It would be hilarious if the show runners are planning on making it up as they go along, as in whoever wins this fan election will be the one to come out on top in season 8. True democracy! Lol. Just kidding, as I know they’ve stated they’re going to arrive same ending as George.
JoBear2016!
I will stand behind Jon Snow!! THE KING IN THE NORTH! 😉 #SNOWMORMONT16
I voted yesterday but what’s the goal exactly ? what do you get out of that except voting for a fictional character? I DEMAND A ONE YEAR SUPPLY OF NUTELLA AS A PRIZE!!!!
Also, Jon Snow does not deserve the title of white wolf, only Geralt of Rivia deserve it and he’s the only one who ever will deserve that title.
Oh, ideally I’d like to vote for a joint leadership of Dany and Jon, but obviously I can’t have that. So, I actually voted for Littefinger, out of my own surprise, this ‘Innovation in Transportation’ is just tempting.
If I were to choose a pair of candidates, I would vote for Davos and Sam: “street smart and book smart, for a better Westeros.” 🙂
ghost of winterfell,
I don’t think we need to read too much into that. It’s just for fun poll… Although I’m sure HBO/the showrunners will milk the “sibling rivalry” cow as much as they did the “Jon is dead and never coming back” one the previous season. 🙂
This is hilarious!!! ?
A dornish Tyrell,
Yes I agree, that’s why I said I don’t buy it!
this is awesome
Okay in real life, im pure socialist (Dany).
But I vote for Jon alllllllllllll the way baby
Ok Im lost – where are you guys seeing the profiles? I clicked on the video, and tried to click on the photos of ‘candidates’ but nothing happened. What am I missing please? (this is such a great idea. Not only will is keep us distracted during the off season but keep me distracted from real life politics – ugg)
OT: did anyone check out the new Harry Potter story?
Any one enjoy it?
ash,
Go to this site: http://thegotparty.com/
Click “Candidates” (on the left side). The names of the list will appear below that. Click the name of the candidate you want to vote and then the candidate’s profile/photo will appear. Click VOTE (on the right side).
Hope this helps. 🙂
Oh wait – is this just on twitter? I don’t tweet – does that make me disenfransized?
Dee Stark,
Not yet. Have not found time for it yet. Looks like reviews were not so great?
Elena,
Shame, shame!
No no no! The ideal running mates are Arya and the Hound. She comes from a respected political dynasty more interested in public service than power. She will not turn a blind eye to any corruption. She’d ensure justice for all traitors–to family, friends, and country. She’s dealt with political adversaries (Lord Tywin) as well as friends. She’s animal friendly, has foreign travel experience after a gap year abroad to further her education, and knows how to deal with issues of life and death. For her, not everything is black and white. She speaks a few languages and looks out for the interests of common people everywhere. The Hound believes more in deeds than in titles. He will be the Enforcer of Justice, defender against bullies of all kinds, and be advisor in all brutally practical matters in more emotional situations. Best of all, they will promote a better diet with an Eat More Chickens campaign. Arya and Hound for a better Westeros!
ACME,
Your description made me think of M&Ms. LOL! 😀 Meera and Sam are definitely worthy candidates. However, I think they are the types who like being in the background and being a strong support to people they think are worthy of their support. There are people like that – they make a difference in the world but they do it out of the spotlight. I believe Sam talked something akin to that. That there’s strength to being that kind of a person.
Sam,
That’s what I see
I think I will like it. I feel like I’m less picky then most
After all, it is hp, and it’s something to do while waiting for GOT
Dee Stark,
We do have almost a year of waiting to do so yeah I’d probably be able to find time for it also within the next several months.
I believe people who are not that picky enjoy things and life more! 🙂
ash,
No don’t worry only the vote on the website counts.You don’t have to tweet
Dee Stark,
I have it but not started reading yet.The story does sound wacky but as you said it’s Harry Potter so I’m willing to give it a chance lol
Sam,
very true
I have bought a bunch of books to read until GOT starts… I even have all five GOT books as well as the knight of the seven kingdoms story. But im waiting to get book six before I read those.
what are we at now? 11 months away from premiere date?
Jenny,
Haha, im not so sure what its about .. I know its about Harrys son/
Dee Stark,
Yeah it’s about Harry’s son and draco’s son.I’m curious to hear your thoughts when you read it because there are truly some wacky things in it lol
Dee Stark,
It’s terrible. I think I’ve read better fanfiction than that.
Hey, let’s not have any Harry Potter/Cursed Child spoilers in this post, okay? People aren’t expecting those in a GOT site. Thanks! You can always start a thread in one of the forums if you need to.
Flayed Potatoes,
hahaha
so I bought it for nothing!
Sam,
All I see is the 2 minute video with the intro
Oh wait – I need to scroll down. Also didn’t realize I needed to click on their indiv seal. Duh…..Thanks
SnowBear ftw! (Much I as care about Sansa, no lady REALLY BAD IDEA!!)
LF is lagging badly behind on the titles but I can’t think of any good ones ’cos I hate him so much he doesn’t deserve them. Biggest villain? Dodgyest accent? Hatcher of the Most Dastardly Schemes and Double Crosses Ever? 😀
Love SnowBear! I first went with Dany because she had Tyrion, so more experience governing. But Jon and Lyanna makes up in leadership and strength what they lack in experience.
I thought it was fantastic!
I see that Littlefinger’s support jumped from 4% to 13% in a single day! LOL
I guess some finally realized he was running with Sansa? LOL
ash,
I went with what my heart told me rather than anything terribly practical. As recently as this series Dany was in wipe out all who oppose me mode, although to be fair Tyrion talked her out of it very easily. Jon sees the bigger picture best of the four, at least at the moment. He knows everyone has to work together to survive and Lyanna can provide the arm twisting for people who aren’t convinced by diplomacy. Advisors are absolutely key and he has Davos who is practical and fair. The people who most want power are often the least suitable – not Dany so much but definitely Cersei and LF and many real life politicians unfortunately ☹️
I would have liked to be able to vote for all the Starks together – even if I have always loved the R+L=J theory, I still consider Jon a Stark, that is belonging to the North. I’ll vote for Jon & Lyanna Mormont, Davos being a great asset for them. Tyrion must understand that I can’t support his party although he’s one of my favourite characters.
These parties are more interesting than the good-bad dichotomy, I must admit.
Their campaign poster is almost ready; just have to photoshop out the other three ^^
People all over the world, join hands, start a love train !
Sam,
You are absolutely right. There is a lot to be said for quiet, humble heroes.
However, since they never get the shoutout they deserve in real life or in fiction, why not in fake , internet elections ? The party of brave sidekicks : they take no credit (and no prisoner !) 😉
Can I get all those on a t-shirt please ? 😉
#PetSaParty2016 #knowledgeiscoming #winterpower #jetpacksforall
(No, seriously, I really want a bloody jetpack !! ^^)
“My reading of history has shown me that simply ‘being a good man’ is not enough. That there are many kings who are good men and yet bad kings. And even good kings sometimes make disasterous decisions. So government is complex, politics is complex.” George RR Martin.
Hopefully, sometimes, the “good guy” skill set and the “good king” skill set overlap. 😉
#I’mWithThem2016 😀
ACME,
A dornish Tyrell,
LOL! Nice team: Varys as Secretary of State, The Waif as Secretary of Defense (she’ll be brutal during interrogations!), and Ramsay as their… mascot? 😀
Senior Official at the IRS? I heard he’s quite good collecting taxes… 😀
Now that’s hilarious !!! ?
How to make a fiscal policy work, at last ! ^^
LF is now at 26% !! He is going to win this thing ?
ghost of winterfell,
Really? I still believe majority of those are coming from Sansa’s fans. You’d be surprised at how much her fans are defending/siding with him now. 🙂 Of course, there are still those who vote for him because they see him as more than a manipulator, as someone very cunning who could play the “game of politics” really well.
Anyway, I’m still going with #JoBear2016 😀
Sam,
Sansa is one of the factors. There are others too, like there are a lot of people who dislike both Jon and Dany, because they see them as “Mary Sue” type of characters. Then there are others who feel a good guy winning is too cliche and they are all about “subverting tropes”, lol.
If it was a straight popularity contest, Dany+Tyrion would have been winning, as they are 2 of the most popular characters.
Anyway, go #JoBear2016 🙂 .
LF is now just 1% below Dany, he is gonna overtake her!
Littlefinger is now up to 29% LOL
It’s gotta be Sansa, right?
Who says Vice Presidential candidates don’t make any difference? LOL
George,
Believe it’s only because of people trolling you’d be surprised how often it happens
George,
Jenny,
It’s a combination of multiple factors, I believe. Yeah, a lot of them will be trolls, the nature of this poll is that it’s all a joke and I suspect a lot of people see it as such.
LOL, LF is now at 30% to Dany’s 28%
ghost of winterfell,
Sadly, you can vote multiple times in this poll if you know the trick. Littlefinger got more votes in 1 hour than in the last 2 days. Just a no-lifer with enough free time.
WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!! #JoBear2016 – no question about it!!!
The candidate descriptions and platforms are hilarious 😀
If people were really trolling by voting Littlefinger/Sansa, Cersei would have a much higher score than 2%.
Sophie Turner has like 30 different tumblr/fan site dedicated to her and they all campaigning hard for Littlefinger lmao
And people really believe in the started as a guy who had nothing: a peasant and is now Lord of the Vale and Harrenhal.
My man Petyr is now a serious candidate! LF for king of the ashes!
George,
I think people overestimate Sansa’s popularity. LF has a lot of people pulling for him because him on the iron throne is “edgy” and apparently not cliche or whatever.
Flayed Potatoes,
Shouldn’t the “edgy” vote go to Daenerys or Cersei ? Isn’t crucifying/blowing up people about as “edgy” as it gets ?
Sam,
ghost of winterfell,
I think the “innovation in transportation” is a big clincher… ^^
Also the fact that he singlehandedly bankrupted the Crown and the Lannisters (and made a profit out of it) means he can probably bail out the State on his own now 😉
ACME,
Well, Danaerys is catching up to Jon so I guess that shows there are many who are willing to overlook past transgressions and root for a “fire and blood” way of handling conflict. Or they just love Tyrion 🙂
ghost of winterfell,
WOW! Things have changed quickly since last night!
I think you’re correct that we should take into account many factors for LF’s increasing score. I do believe many of those votes are from “trolls” who want to stir the pot, so to speak… Although we shouldn’t discard LF fans. Many people think that he has worked hard and brilliantly to obtain power and deserves to win. 🙂
Flayed Potatoes,
I guess a lot of people might just vote him for that innovative transportation fun, like me. Plus Sansa does have lota fans.
Of course now I don’t like him to really win, lol, so today I’ve voted for the roaring lioness. It’s fun as a casual fan to leave out my favourite candidates for the fandom to debate their fate or whatever. HBO is being quite smart in getting some useful stats about character popularity in and out of the fandom.
A dornish Tyrell,
I wonder how many of the people who voted for LF are actually his fans, I think the percentage will be pretty small, lol.
There are LF fans though yeah, Sophie Turner being the most prominent.
ygritte,
People seem to have stopped voting for Jon in a big way in the past 24 hours, he has lost major ground to both LF and Dany.
ACME,
I reckon anyone who could really genuinely guarantee everyone their own jet pack would win everything. I like to pride myself on my principles but sometimes you have to put yourself first and bite the bullet. Although no way would LF share his, the (awesomely funny) innovation in transportation is just for him I’m sure. I reckon he’d be the king of small print; makes everything sound great and to everyone’s advantage but would have so many sneaky exceptions and sub clauses he’d be the only one to benefit and you wouldn’t find out until too late.
I’m 48 and they’ve been using jet packs for all as bait since I was a kid for how great the future will be. Still waiting! Harumph! 🙁
A dornish Tyrell,
I just snorted my drink up my nose – fantastic! You have to big up your strengths, that’s what politicians do really well 😀
ACME,
Dany winning is no way edgy. We know she wants to rule from season 1 and many hardcore fans see it as cliche. Cersei is already sitting on the IT and not for long.
ghost of winterfell,
I’m still voting for Jon and Lady Bear lol.
Nutella yummmm.
Cersei is getting no love whatsoever.
Ha, we can vote daily?
Newbietothegame,
Yup. It says so on the site.
lol, Those of you trying to figure out Littlefinger’s sudden success really haven’t spent much time around rabid online fandoms – especially the Tumblr contingent who have rigged countless online victories for the likes of Justin Bieber over the years. These are the first people who will figure out how to get around voting restrictions, but in this case it’s really easy.
All you have to do is clear your browser cache and cookies after each vote, and you’ll be able to vote again instantly. I just tried it and it worked like a charm. You can stuff this ballot all day long if you have nothing better to do, and I guarantee you that’s exactly how LF pulled ahead so abruptly.
LOL! This is equally amusing and vexing… I’ve never felt so old! 😛
ygritte,
Hmm… Interesting point. You may very well be right. After all, what’s a little massacre when it is for the “greater good” ? 😉
A dornish Tyrell,
Ha ha ha ! I would not go as far as to say he “deserves” to win… Not morally speaking, that is for sure. Let’s face it, he is an ethical wasteland ^^
However, he does have a rather fascinating trajectory (along with Varys, he is the only non-military self-made man, so to speak, in a world made for and by the warring nobility) and would probably, by any law of history and political science, be a pretty damn efficient rule.
I just hope we’ll get to find out what his endgame is before his untimely demise 😉
Lulus Mum,
I want to believe this time is the right time. This time is the time when the jetpack promise will at long and painful last be fulfilled and we all shall float about, delicately propelled to and fro.
Keep on believing !! ^^
Flayed Potatoes,
By this token, every single contender on that list is quite “unedgy”. Cersei, Daenerys and Littlefinger have always been as blatant as it gets in terms of powerhunger and Jon has been manifestly destined for great things since the very beginning of the story. ^^
—–
On a completely different note, people can vote several times ? Really ? That’s just daft ! It would be funnier if each person could only vote once during the whole process… Now people are going to take this way too seriously and get angry or frustrated !
Bah, I’ll stick to my initial plan : cast my one vote on the very last day. 🙂
elybe,
You are exactly right.This is very prominent on tumblr where coincidentally are all the LF and Sansa fans lol.It’s very easy to get around it.Just directly open the browser in incognito mode and it’s done haha
ghost of winterfell,
People voted for Jon in the beginning and considering he was winning never bothered again.Tbh most people probably haven’t realized that you can vote daily lol
Oh the disdain… 😉
elybe,
Jenny,
Lol, people always find a way around the rules. Yeah, it does explain a sudden surge for any one character. Last night it was LF, now it’s Dany.
Oh! I don’t want him to win! But I’ll be lying if I say I don’t enjoy his machinations. 😉
Ha ha ha ! You and me both 😉
ACME,
I know right the nerve haha.I demand a recount Florida has nothing on us
Jenny,
Ha ha ha ! You know what I think would be pretty damn funny ? If, on September 1st, Cersei was declared the winner because “Her Grace burnt down all the ballot boxes and crowned Herself. Long may She reign”…
Come on, HBO marketing department, go full meta on us ! ?
ACME,
Now that would be classic game of thrones I’m waiting for it to happen lol
I am right there with you.
I’m late to the game, but I also told my Facebook friends to vote Snow-Mormont. I’m scared by how close Dany is, even though Bender compared her to Hitler this season.
Yes and no. I would say he’s the American Libertarian party, which tries to emulate our founding fathers and whose main goal is less government rather than more – a very right-winged ideal. But they are for open immigration, unless you’re a White Walker. I see the Starks and the North as fundamentally conservative, the good kind of conservative where they can be very open-minded when they need to be, but they are values-centered with a main goal of conserving enough to be prepared for anything: Winter is Coming.
Ginevra,
Apparently I need to tell my friends again lol
ACME,
to the tune of I believe I can fly by someone or other….er……R Kelly. Well the first two lines anyway, I don’t know how it goes after that?
*sings (badly)*
I’ll believe I can fly/When jet pack I can buy/I’ll reach up to the sky/But it’s GoT so we’re all gonna die
(gotta sing the last line really fast to fit it in) 😀
Ginevra,
I would be tempted to associate libertarianism more with the Free Folk than with the North (as in Westeros’s version of the north). The North is permeated by this very deep sense of hierarchy, of incarnate power, of charismatic leadership (probably inherited from its deeply martial spirit) that does not quite “gel”, so to speak, with the more egalitarian approach of the Free Folk who, whenever they veered towards a monarchical social structure, have failed.
When Jon got the support of the Free Folk, they shook hands : they agreed to be led by him, he is primus inter pares.
When he got the support of the Northern lords, they rose their swords and proclaimed him something “other” than themselves : they expect him to “lord over” them.
However, I agree with the North by an large being “small c” conservative. That fits them pretty well. ^^
Lulus Mum,
Someone bring the karaoke machine, stat !!! We’re onto something here ?
Lulus Mum,
Standing ovation!!! 😀
You will probably need to give your friends the cheat code too, if Jon has to recover now, lol. I think Dany’s share has gone up 10% in the last 6 hours itself. This is quite possibly mass voting by a section of people. These are big swings happening.
ACME, A Dornish Tyrell,
Thank you, thank you *bows* We’ve got a long wait for S7 gotta get some community activities going 😀
King of the Ashes. Warden of Wickedness. Master of Malice. Lord of Lying with Lysa.
The cheat code that you can vote in every browser once a day? Is that the cheat code? Don’t tell the Daninites or the Fingerers! You can tell a Cersei fan, though, if you can find one.
Nope, the cheat code is that you can vote as many times as you want in a day, if you open the site using incognito mode!
Yeah, we need to find some Cersei fans. She has such an awesome platform, 1% vote doesn’t do it justice 🙂 .
ghost of winterfell,
Damnit! Danny’s in the lead!
I am at work at the moment. I am going to fix that when I get home ?
ghost of winterfell,
Obviously I gave them the cheat code and they told me I’m crazy because this is a fake election lol but they are still trying for my sake.There are still a lot of days to go Jon will bounce up
ghost of winterfell,
I just told my 13 year-old that we could vote as many times as we wanted in the porn window, and then I went all Hagrid: “Should’n’a told yer that!” She didn’t know she could surf incognito, without me tracking her moves. Oops.
(I’ve tracked her only once, when I caught her with the laptop at 3 AM and she said she was just listening to music. “Um, that’s not what your browser history says.”)
Ginevra,
Does your 13 year old watch got with you?that’s so cool
I’ve been voting steadily for Jon whilst watching TV because Dany was at thirty nine percent and Jon thirty eight. I thought, I’ll fix that! And now he’s behind even more! Ahh! Wtf?!
I voted for Jon and lyanna.
I just learned earlier from a friend that we could vote daily for our candidates (#JoBear2016!). So I went to the gotparty site to do my citizen’s duty to vote and have my voice heard. I was so surprised to see that Dany is already so far ahead (73%!). It’s a landslide! Then I came here and learned that there’s such a thing as a cheat code. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time and energy to do that!!!! I feel SOOOOO old!
So now I’m wondering what type of fans do Jon, Dany, Sansa, Tyrion, Cersei, etc. have. I suppose Dany is still the most popular of them all, with legions of young, devoted fans . Many show fans I know see Dany as this magical, wonderful being so I can only imagine what the younger ones think of her. My co-workers who are casual GOT viewers still think the show is about Dany, that it’s the story of her journey to take back the throne. I smile every time I hear one say that. 🙂
I wish I had the dedication to anything in my life that the people voting repeatedly for dany have lol
Jenny,
There is no doubt now that this poll has been compromised, lol.
Sam,
I think it’s very hard to judge which one character is the most popular, as the show has such diverse fans all over the world. Among my friends, Jon is the clear favorite (a lot of them like Arya too), I think we can safely say that Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Arya and Sansa are the most popular, but harder to say who is the most popular. On the internet at least, Dany is a very divisive character (probably the most divisive among the major ones), but she seems extremely popular among the casuals, so who knows.
Even here, when the poll first opened, Jon was leading by a big margin initially in the first 2 days, he had over 50% of the votes, before the Dany brigade started their campaign, lol.
ghost of winterfell,
It’s so stupid how much this pisses me off. lol
I mean if she so great and wonderful wouldn’t she be winning anyway?…Oh right Jon was. lol
ghost of winterfell,
Someone is Robo Voting the heck out of this that’s for sure. lol
Ginevra,
You gave your daughter the cheat code!! I laughed the hardest when I read this 🙂 .
CC,
Well, all this is supposed to be fun, why get worked up over it 🙂 .
ghost of winterfell,
LOL! I find this so fascinating. Out of curiosity, I checked again how it’s going and Dany now has 88% of the votes (went from 73% in about an hour and a half!).
Anyway, #JoBear2016 may lose but they’ll forever be my chosen ones. 🙂
I shouldn’t let her, but I do on my second viewing, when I know where to tell her to close her eyes. I probably shouldn’t let her hear all of that language at her young age, either, but I do.
Yeah, she’s now at 89%, but I don’t get that at all. The count of the number of votes hasn’t changed significantly because it has said 19,xxx,xxx strong all day long! Currently, it says 19,116,425. So from the time Dany was 37% to the time she was 89%, at most 0.6% more people have voted, in total. So how did she climb 52%?
Of course! She was voting for Jon. She was shocked that I was actually cheating, though. I’m such a bad influence!
Ginevra,
I think the 19 million strong thing is the number of likes on the GOT Facebook page, not the number of votes. I don’t believe the overall number of votes is indicated anywhere.
ghost of winterfell,
I think there is no doubt Daenerys is tremendously popular; both on the internet and among more casual viewers. Not only is she a genuinely interesting, well-crafted character (not my favourite, but it is manifest she has qualities) but she is also very “distinct” : the hair, the dragons, the “khaleesi” title, etc. She is very identifiable, memorable and it certainly helps with popularity ^^
However, I cannot quite imagine her to be that much more popular than Jon, even among casual viewers. Especially after last year’s whole “is Jon dead ?” marathon.
As for specific, younger, more tech-savy, freetime-having demographics, I would also imagine both Jon and Daenerys are pretty evenly matched in this regard.
Quite frankly, it would have made complete sense and been entirely expected had this poll turned into a Daenerys/Jon match, with Cersei and Littlefinger barely collecting 10-15% among them. But such a landslide for Daenerys ? Even with the added support of Tyrion, that seems rather unlikely, if only “natural”, non-robotic means were used… 😉
It is quite the conundrum for the HBO marketing department now. Clearly, they want as much traffic as possible on their page which is why they put the “come back everyday and vote again” rule. If one character takes such a significant lead in such a short period of time, it may discourage many of the other characters’ supporters (especially Jon’s) from voting again thinking “what’s the point ?”. It the spiral of silence phenomenon.
If I worked for the HBO marketing department (which, luckily for them, I don’t), I’d “lose” a lot of Daenerys’s botvotes to give at least Jon a shot at a comeback. Ongoing, viable competition is what guarantees continued traffic…
ghost of winterfell,
Uh,goes to show what kind of people vote for Dany, lol.
ACME,
I just have to say, I may not always agree with you but I really like reading your take on things. 🙂
I, for one, has definitely gone down the spiral of silence.
Sam,
The top-4 have consistently been Tyrion, Arya, Jon, and Dany (order varies from poll to poll) since early days, but Dany’s popularity more or less peaked with “Dracarys” in Season 3. She’s still up there, but during the first 24 hours of this poll, before the LF voters started spamming it yesterday, Jon was the one winning in a landslide (59%). The only thing these numbers are reflecting at the moment is how good Dany’s online fans are at rigging polls. She’s at 90%, which means that someone’s either officially hacked it or set up robots to vote continuously. I’m not exactly sure what the long-term benefit of hacking a poll that primarily exists to advertise Season 6 digital sales is supposed to be, but….different strokes, or something?
Yeah, I was wondering about this too, the count doesn’t really add up. At the end of Day 1 itself, the count was some 19 million+, at which point Jon had 55% of the votes, and now it has come down to 8%, with a few thousand more votes added to the total. I really doubt 19 million people actually voted.
ACME,
Sam,
I have gone down the spiral of silence too 🙂 .
Sam,
Cheers ! That’s lovely of you to say.
I do not always agree with me either 😉
ghost of winterfell,
19 million is the number of likes on the GOT Facebook page I believe ^^
As elybe surmised, there is clearly a votebot involved somewhere (the increase in percentage has been too steady and too noticeable in too short a period of time for it to be natural).
Spamming was always expected and I suspect it has been going on since the poll started. In this regard, I do not think one candidate benefited signifcantly more from it than another; in each fanbase, you are going to find a handful of people with a lot of freetime and the “will to help” ^^ (young, hyper-charged, devouted fans) who are going to spend a couple of hours voting repeatedly for their favourite. That’s fine; it more or less cancels itself out.
Voteboting is a completely different ball of wax. HBO wants as many people as possible to go to its thegotparty.com page as often as possible in the hope that, ultimately, a fair percentage of them gives the digital version a try (and also to create a good, ongoing buzz around GOT during the offseason). If a huge chunk of the potential voters (aka potential buyers) are disgruntled to the point of either not going back to the page to cast their daily vote or not telling their friends about it because “there’s no point”, that’s a potential loss in customers for HBO digital…
Hell, at this point, even Daenerys’s fans have no incentive to vote and visit the page reguarly. A robot is doing the work for them.
Ginevra,
Nah it’s great.You can’t shelter them forever plus you are right there with her.I did the same thing with my brother he started watching when he was 13. Also the 19 million number is the number of likes on fb it has nothing to do with the voting number.Yeah it’s safe to say either somebody hacked it or people have wooden fingers by now lol
Sam,
Jon Tyrion Dany and Arya are the most popular characters.But in no way shape or form is she 90% more popular than Jon and no not even with Tyrion’s help.I would have understood if at the end Dany won with a max 5% advantage but not this way lol
I wonder how many votes have actually been cast (I imagine it’s in the millions) because I doubt a group of people would be able to swing the vote by that margin simply by spamming. Unless it’s some sort of bot as others have stated.
Though if you’re going to say that the poll has been compromised, it’s only fair to say that it’s been compromised from the start. You can’t claim that the poll was legitimate while Jon was winning or while Littlefinger was making his run, but now that Dany has opened up a ridiculous lead the poll is illegitimate. Hell it wouldn’t surprise me if it ended up being tight since there’s still 27 days to go. And by that time TeamJon or TeamPetyr can have their own bot lol!
Anyhow, I’m still Dany/Tyrion 2016!
This is why Game of thrones never wins things like People Choice awards kids not because it’s not the most popular but because fans of other shows will rigg it.Considering fan voted things are the only awards those shows will ever win they put everything in it and this happens
Jay Targ,
I would say it was legitimate at the very start like the first night.Before people realized they could cheat lol
ACME,
That’s an interesting point. I hadn’t considered that the bots could create issues from a marketing perspective. People can use applications to generate fake webpage traffic, too, so unless they overlooked that step, I guess it depends on whether or not someone brings it to the attention of the site admins. You’re right, I can’t imagine they’d be too happy if people abruptly stopped visiting the site when this campaign was supposed to last the entire month.
Jenny,
Yes I feel similarly. But since we can’t be sure exactly when people found out that they can cheat, I’m inclined to dismiss the whole thing including the beginning. Just my view on it. Regardless, I feel like we all have a good idea on who the most popular characters are lol
I just visited the page to do my daily duty and I think I’m going down that spiral of silence too! Too old for that!
It definitely doesn’t mirror what we know of character popularity: yes, Dany and Tyrion is a great team and very popular too, but JoBear is equally popular. If the difference between them was say 5-10% it would be something that I would consider close to the truth – but what I see in that page at the moment is rather crazy. Something very strange has happened and botvote would be the only reasonable explanation!
Can’t fight botvotes: it’s worse than WW – Valyrian steel and dragonglass doesn’t work! So, I make my strategic retreat – and I hope the old and new Gods make those robot -voting servers crash!!! 😀
Oh dear, that’s a shame. It was quite fun to take part but in a matter of hours it’s become painfully obvious that the voting has been compromised. I guess as its running for a month HBO have time to sort it out then lol.
At this rate, by tomorrow, Dany will have 99% and the others 0.3%. Makes the whole thing look rather stupid.
Mag,
Sansa is playing and will betray Littlefinger, they will campaign this whole Sansa vs Jon shit until season 7 because in that way the Maiden Vs The Savage Giant will be more awesome.
elybe,
You’re right, most votebots have side applications that simulate traffic in order to avoid immediate detection. However, the “behaviour” of a bot is extremely identifiable : a steady, continuous flow of votes for the same candidate/option over a rather long period. Humans do not do that : theirs is a much more punctual vote. Even with “spamming” (people bypassing the rules and voting repeatedly instead of once), you have leaps and lapses.
The poll as it is right now should probably surprise any admin that looks at it. Not because Daenerys and Tyrion are winning but because Jon gets almost nothing even though he is, too, one of the quatuor of fan favourites (along with the aforementioned Daenerys and Tyrion, plus Arya). Considering Baby Bear is basically Season 1 Arya with even more ‘tude, the votes should be much more evenly spread among the JoBear party and the RoaringFire campaign. 90% for one of them and the crumbs for the other… That does not look right. And it most certainly does not serve the interests of the HBO marketing department who wants as many real humans going to that webpage so they can hopefully turn into new customers and generate widespread, sustained enthusiasm for the process (and the show).
Unfortunately, as Sam, ghost of winterfell and SiriuslyStark have identified in themselves, the spiral of silence is one hell of a potent deterrent.
Again, if the marketers pay a bit of attention and want the contest to last an entire month, they are going to stop the bots and “lose” the votes they generated. Not all at once for a too sudden drop in Daenerys’s percentage will look as fake as Donald Trump’s tan but little by little… 5% by 5%… Until they get to a 50% Daenerys – 50% others. And then, let the battle (re)commence !
Just realised I wrote “theirs” when talking about humans… I obviously meant “ours”. I should be able to remember I am a human being, dammit ! 😉
Ginevra,
Very easy, most people around the world feel like the free folk and the slaves, Jon gave 2 shits about the free folk until apocalypse became inminent and it was either to join them or add them to the army of dead and Dany cares about the slaves because it´s what her common sense tells her it is right. Most Jon Snow fans are incredibly entitled, they are the ones calling her mad and a villian, her effort to improve the lives of hundreds of thousands is dismissed and her bad temper is used to defined her like when crucified the masters that crucified the girls to mock her. Jon Snow fans think this is more horrible than what the masters did to the girls because the lives of men in power and the power structure is more valuable to them than the girls lives. No one in that faction gives 2 shits about the little girls 160 something with their rotten flesh.
When Dany is watching their bodies pointing the way to Mereen is horrifying and somehow people can only remember the poor masters, Dany never hurt the masters families, wives and kids, she went for the leaders, the ones making the desicions, she will have to balance her empathy and bad temper but Jon Snow fans will have to learn how to value Jon without vilifying any character that threatens him to be the worst Gar Stu ever.
sam:
Most Jon Snow fans are American and incredibly entitled, they are the ones calling her mad and a villian,
I’ m not American and strictly speaking from what I see in the country I live in, the majority of us is a Stark – Jon Snow fan base. 🙂 And that doesn’t in any case mean that Dany is bad – on the contrary I support her too, like the majority of fans here, from the start. That doesn’t alter the fact that we’re SiriuslyStark 🙂 I mean one can support a certain character, without the need to devalue another. So, while I agree that one should’t devalue or try to diminish Dany and Co in order to support Jon , I disagree with that generalization of what the Jon/Stark fan base is like. It’s unfair to people like me – and there’s lots of people like me 🙂
sam,
Kind of painting with a broad brush there. That felt kind of rude to me. No big deal, as this is not serious stuff, it’s supposed to be for fun? 🙂
sam,
I do not think anyone questions Daenerys’s good intentions. From the very beginning, she has been one of the most, if not the most, morally upstanding character(s) on the show. However, that ethical and humanitarian rigor has always been paired with a rather idealistic and, therefore, quite ineffective (potentially destructive even) approach.
Remember her scene with Mirri Maz Duur : Daenerys revendicated saving Mirri who then proceeded to remind Khaleesi that, before being “saved” by the Mother of Dragons-to-be, she had been raped three times and witnessed her entire village, her entire culture, her entire life reduced to a pile of ashes by Daenerys’s beloved husband… Who saved what ?
And the same logic applies to Meereen : Daenerys wanted to put an end to slavery. As noble a goal as it gets. And she did just that. But, in the process, she destroyed the ancestral social contract in place, replaced it with absolutely nothing except for herself and her dragons which created the perfect environment for a civil war to erupt, flew away when it eventually did erupt, came back, threatened the masters into (momentary) submission, left the keys to the place to some random dude whose only qualification is that they used to have sex and finally left Meereen with the whole “leviathan” (the state’s embodiment of legitimate violence, namely the army and the dragons) thereby reducing the entire state entity to some random bloke in a pyramid.
Switching the name of the place from Slavers’ Bay to Bay of Dragons is merely cosmetic : we can all decide from now on to call North Korea “Freedom-and-Jelly-Baby-land”, it will not change the country’s reality. 😉
Give it six months and, by all rules of history, political science and common sense, Meereen will be in utter shambles with former slaves and former slavers warring against each other in the most brutal fashion imaginable. As a matter of fact, I would very much like for the writers to revisit Meereen (briefly) at some point in the next two seasons so we see what happened to it…
So, her instincts are pitch perfect. She knows an injustice when she sees one and she always tries to do something about it which is remarkable. However, her political acumen is… Let’s say faulty.
That is, I would dare say, the whole point. She’s not the messiah (she’s a very naughty… Nope ! Won’t go there ! ^^). Neither is Jon to be honest. There is not such thing as a “real” messiah. Just like there is no “real” villain. They are all quite realistic characters and, as such, they screw up. Big times. Lots of times.
As for the idea that one type of “screw up” is more popular in this or that part of the world, I have to confess I lack the data to validate or invalidate the argument 🙂
Hear, hear! I’m a Jon/Starks fan and I’ve never put down Dany to elevate my favorites nor have I called her mad or a villain. It’s just so frustrating when people generalize! And what’s funny is that he/she is doing exactly what he/she was complaining about: fans putting down a character to elevate their favorite (e.g., saying the favorite character cares about other people while the “rival” character doesn’t give a shit about other people). SMH
Sam,
You are the regular Sam right? And that was a different sam? God, it’s confusing!
Lmao, this is hilarious! I may not always agree with you, but I always enjoy reading your comments.
ACME,
I absolutely agree! It’s the screw-ups that make this story so fascinating. Otherwise, it would be boring and predictable. (To be honest, I like book!Jon just a little bit more than show!Jon because he’s less “heroic/messianic”, at least to me.)
ghost of winterfell,
Hahahaha! Yup, that’s not me. 🙂
Sam: Hear, hear! I’m a Jon/Starks fan and I’ve never put down Dany to elevate my favorites nor have I called her mad or a villain. It’s just so frustrating when people generalize! And what’s funny is that he/she is doing exactly what he/she was complaining about: fans putting down a character to elevate their favorite (e.g., saying the favorite character cares about other people while the “rival” character doesn’t give a shit about other people). SMH
OMG Sam I was worried for a minute! I was wondering whether you were abducted by aliens or something like that! Capital S stands for a difference of opinion, obviously! Good to see you safe and sound 😀
Yeap, I think our other sam fell in the trap of doing the exact same thing he was mad about 🙂
ACME
left the keys to the place to some random dude whose only qualification is that they used to have sex and finally left Meereen with the whole “leviathan” (the state’s embodiment of legitimate violence, namely the army and the dragons) thereby reducing the entire state entity to some random bloke in a pyramid.
LOL!!!!
There is not such thing as a “real” messiah. Just like there is no “real” villain. They are all quite realistic characters and, as such, they screw up. Big times. Lots of times.
Yes, most of our heroes and heroines are very far from being perfect or the messiah! They make mistakes, they screw-up, sometimes they learn from that, sometimes they don’t, they break, they fall and they pick themselves up- they are human 🙂 That’s what makes the story so interesting and that’s why we love them – we wouldn’t be able to connect with them otherwise! 🙂
SiriuslyStark,
Haha! Thanks 😀
ACME,
She left Meereen in the hands of the people that are elected. Not Daario. He has no power other than basically keeping peace. The people elected will create the laws and have power over Daario.
I think most voting internet places go by IP address, don’t they? Surely they aren’t all this easy to rig.
Ginevra,
It’s so easy to disguise IP addresses though.Like I know that people rig the people choice and most fan voted award stuff.It gets pretty intense in some corners lol
Ooo, a Jon/Dany debacle – err, debate! I love debates.
Point One: Dany fans are every bit as entitled as Jon fans. It is known.
Point Two: For the sake of full disclosure, Tyrion and Arya are tied for my favorite, with Jon bringing a close third place, but I’ve always thought Jon would be the hero of the series, as does a plurality of fans on every major fan site (see Brynden B Fish’s poll). I’ve never said Dany was mad. Before the middle/end of this season, I thought she was more a product of the world of Planetos where no one is truly good. This season, Dany gave us several maniacal expressions, but producers were also reasonably quick to clarify that Dany wasn’t mad at all, just ruthless now that she was embracing “fire and blood.” Temporarily, that producer quote made me think that Dany wasn’t meant to look like the villain at all, until I realized that the most villainous ruler in recent world history wasn’t mad, either, and his reign of terror and genocide will not quickly be forgotten.
Still, I didn’t think of Dany as a villain (I thought she’d just be a heroine I didn’t personally feel kindred with) until I reread
But still, I was confused because how could Dany become the villain with Tyrion at her side, right? I was confused *until* another fan on this site shared a GRRM quote where he announced that Tyrion was a villain. And then it all fit smashingly together.
Point Three:What the masters did was way worse. I’m completely unaware of any Jon fan saying the masters were innocent. I don’t think we talk much about them because they aren’t central to the story in the same way Dany is and they were never painted as heroes in the same way Dany is. Executing the masters with a sword and a block would have been just. Crucifying them publicly, however, is cruel and sadistic. Yes, every bit as cruel and sadistic as the masters themselves, but we don’t expect our heroes to be committing the same atrocities as our villains, do we?
Okay, so you know those little blanks where, before submitting a vote, the user has to read the letters that are in the picture and put them into the little blanks? That’s what the GoT Party needs, in order not to be as corrupt as every other party out there.
Ginevra,
Yeah that might work with bots but still nobody actually votes once a day
Jenny,
The bot seems to have retired from work now. I wonder if the HBO guys will realize that something went wrong and take steps to correct it, or will they just leave it as it is.
Ginevra,
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. I think the bone of contention among many fans revolve around the use of the word “villain”…
“Villain” conjures up the image of a character who does evil things for evil’s sake, I believe. The mastermind in his lair, petting his white cat while muttering repeatedly to himself “I want to take over the world” (without ever mentioning what he intends to do with the said world once he’ll have it). Bad guy is bad, period. That’s a trope in “bad” storytelling, not in real life or in better crafted works of fiction.
In real life, the culprits of the worst imaginable crimes are not “villainous”, in this sense; to the contrary, they tend to be people who absolutely believe they are working towards the “greater good”. They are convinced that they are on the side of the angels and working towards a better, purer, more beautiful world. Why second-guess yourself when you’re utterly certain righteousness is fundamentally on your side ? The end justifies the means.
They’re not crazy, in the clinical sense of the term, but they are believers (in their own mythos, their own world view, in their own good intentions).
In fiction, they’re not villains per se; they are more “antagonists”. And Daenerys certainly has the potential. She believes she is right (and, more often than not, she is) thus feels justified to use whichever weapon is at her disposal to achieve her goal.
Until this season’s finale, Tyrion was a mitigating agent, able to reign her in when need be. And then, Daenerys gave him what he craves the most : approval. The youngest Lannister has, understandably so, been running after validation for his entire life. By naming him her Hand, Daenerys changed him. He is no longer a critical advisor; he is more of a disciple (“I believe in you”).
That’s Daenerys’s greatest strength but also the single most worrying aspect of her path so far. She attracts people who crave redemption, solace and some kind of meaning of life (Jorah Mormont, Barristan Selmy, Grey Worm, Tyrion) and becomes their be-all-and-end-all. She doesn’t even do it on purpose, which is interesting.
However, at best, political leaders are meant to be trusted, not believed in. “We have faith in you” is not the pledge of a cabinet / government entity; it is that of a cult.
And nobody questions the guru…
So while motivated by the very best intentions, Daenerys could very easily turn into an antagonist. With Tyrion’s help.
(Sorry for the non-topical post)
—–
On a more topical note : go vote or something like that ! 😉
Ginevra,
And you know what irks me? The fact that the fans of Dany get upset with posters who’ve brought up speculation about her eventually becoming a villain when it’s merely in the scope of exploring how the story might go. They take it as a personal affront. Seriously? Like, who am I to know the mind of this author and what he has in store as far as twists? But the fact that out of 6 or 7 possible twists the Dany-turning-into-antaganist is not allowed because somehow THAT one is personal “hatred” for this fictional character?!
LOL, Cersei out of nowhere has gone upto 3.6%, higher than LF now! I wonder if this is HBO’s doing or there are bots voting for Cersei now 🙂 .
ghost of winterfell,
Somebody upthread said that this is going to be rigged, c/o Varys, and he’d make whoever he wants to win win. That poster may be on to something. Perhaps the spider has indeed invaded HBO’s server (or whatever you call it). Maybe he’s turned his little birds into little bots. LOL 😀
My brother told me that you can rig a poll that no matter who you vote for that vote goes to the person/thing you want. Say you rig it for LF. A vote is cast for Cersei but it gets counted for LF….A vote is cast for Jon it’s counted for LF…Who knew.
ACME,
You made great points here. She’s almost god-like, whom people seem to flock to. She’s amassed massive followers and they are now following her blindly(?), leaving their homes to “serve” her and fight her war. It seems like to these people, she is their salvation (including the men you mentioned). Can’t help but wonder, what are these people to her?
Sam,
How can I put this because I have very conflicting feelings on Dany.I do like her and think she has good intentions but she does have the potential to be antagonistic but I simply don’t think it’s going to happen.As they say with great power comes great responsability and she has far too much power at the moment.To answer your question in my opinion she does consider herself a mother to all of her people but I don’t think she considers herself at the same level as them.On a more subconscious level they are a means to an end for her.A stepping stone to reach her goal.As she said in her conversation with Daario she felt nothing just impatience she was feeling numb.Truth of the matter is even when she gets the Iron Throne she won’t feel satisfied just more of the same emptiness.Because she is running after a fantasy the house with the red door doesn’t exist anymore.
Jenny,
Very sound analysis, I think.
Daenerys’s life ended on the night she chose to die on her husband’s funeral pyre. And then she woke up, unburnt, with three dragons. Her life came to an end and was replaced by a destiny, as the “magical one”. Which she fulfills to the best of her abilities but does not seem to take tremendous joy in. She does what she believes she must, sometimes coldly, hoping perhaps the path may take her back to her life. But it probably will not.
She does her duty and, to attempt to answer your question, Sam, I believe this is how she sees the people around her : they are her responsibility, her duty. She is in charge of them and she does what is expected of her. Does she feel anything for them ? I guess it all depends on the definition of “feeling”… She seems to care for what happens to them, to a certain extent.
If (in my opinion, it is more an if than a when) she ends up sitting on the Iron Throne, she’ll be just as restless and disappointed with it as she was with Meereen’s pyramid, as Jenny wrote. However, she may not stay on that Throne for long…
The overall story started with the reawakening of magic (the White Walkers reappearing, the dragons hatching) and will probably end with its extinction. Already, we have lost the Children of the Forest (Leaf appeared to be the last of her kind), the giants (same thing for Wun Wun), the three-eyed raven (who was more magical than human at that point). All the characters/entities very closely associated with magic may follow the same path. That includes the dragons, the White Walkers and, possibly, Daenerys herself.
That’s one of those things that appear to have been set up since Act 1 : the death of magic in all its forms, Sansa killing Littlefinger, Arya not fitting in “average” society (she did not want to be a “normal lady” in season 1; in season 6, she told Lady Crane she would like to see what is “west of Westeros”, hinting at an eventual departure from the world), etc.
ACME,
Yeah I agree in pretty much everything how boring haha.In other electoral news it appears HBO is cleaning out the polls a bit.But considering we have 27 days left this may turn out to be a Game of Bots lol
Only 19,965 BALLOTS CAST
Yes, yes, and yes. I should have clarified that I’m theorizing both Dany and Tyrion (who is tied as my favorite character, mind) and Sansa (but she would be really off-topic, although I guess her being paired with LF makes her slightly on-topic) will all make up the emergence of the anti-villains at the close of ASoIaF.
At the opening, we had an emergence of anti-heroes: especially Jaime and the Hound. After throwing a boy out a window “for love” and killing the baker’s boy because he was told to do so, we think we couldn’t possibly want to ever do anything to these characters but strangle them to death. And then George goes and makes us fall in love with these boys, the audacity! Both the Hound and Jaime are the perfect anti-heroes – boys we should hate who consistently save our heroes’ asses, and so we love them.
Since he opens with a couple of bad boys who do such good things, it would make sense for George to close with good characters who will do horrible things.
Do you think Bran will also have to die? He’s one of the most “magical” characters. Even more so than Dany, I dare say. Maybe it’s Bran who sacrifice himself in order to restore balance in Planetos… and now I should take off my tinfoil hat. 😛
One of the reasons why I don’t fully subscribe to the idea of a connection between dragons and WW is the fact that for centuries there were dragons (during most of Targaryen rule in Westeros) but no signs of WW… Although I might be forgetting something from the books that contradicts my previous statement… :/
ygritte,
Yes. Tyrion is tied as my favorite character, but I know he’s no saint. I can easily see him going dark. The clues are all there. The background has been laid.
A Dornish Tyrell,
Many have speculated – and perhaps George even said – that because Bran’s chapter opened the series, his chapter would close the series. Bran is our narrator. He’s the safest of safe, I believe.
Yeah, I was commenting on this in the other thread, I don’t see the correlation between dragons and WWs either. Dragons existed for thousands of years in Valyria and hundreds of years in Westeros without any WWs appearing. And the WWs must have returned at least around 20 years prior to the start of our story, which means that many years before the dragons were reborn.
As a fan of Dany’s, I’ve never taken issue with people saying she will play an antagonistic role in the future; my issue has alway been when they say that she will go mad or that she (and her dragons) is a villain on the same level as the Others.
1. Dany will go mad
This theory has never stood well to me because I don’t believe that would be a natural progression of her arc. We are repeatedly shown that Dany has the mental fortitude that neither Viserys nor her father had. She’s also said to be much more like Rhaegar and she even has prophetic dreams where she sees her self as Rhaegar. Also a large part of her arc is coming to terms with what her father was, and in the show we have already moved passed this. It is clear that Daenerys is destined for greatness. This is not even including the fact that we already have a “Mad Queen” with Cersei; it’d be silly to have another one right after. I’m just glad that D&D have essentially shot down this theory for good.
2. Dany (and her dragons) is just as bad as the White Walkers
Lol, how people come up with this one is beyond me. Dragons and humans have been shown capable to live amongst each other, the same cannot be said about the Others. The Others are said to bring a night that never ends, there is no equivalent on the dragons side. Let’s also not forget that Dany’s dragons are still relatively small when compared to Aegons’, so where were the Others then. All this is not even getting into who Dany is a person; whereas the Valyrians used dragons to enslave people, Dany uses them to give them freedom. Again I am glad that D&D have equally shot this theory down by saying that the Others represent death and they’re coming for everyone.
So yes I do expect Dany in the books to play a bit of an antagonist role when she first arrives in Westeros. The show however is clearly not doing that due to them getting rid of the Aegon plot. Instead of fighting him and the internal conflict it brings her, she’ll be fighting Cersei which removes most of the grayness. In the end, I fully expect Dany to sacrifice herself in the heart of winter and effectively ending the long night (perhaps fulfilling the role of Azor Ahai or TPTWP). And Jon will end up King.
Of course this is all just my opinion. Sorry if this is difficult to read as it is mostly just my thoughts all thrown together and I had no time to organize them better.
Jenny,
Games of Thrones : the Transformers edition. Fight, robots, fight ! ^^
Ginevra,
You make a very compelling case.
Tyrion and Daenerys are definitely on the table as maybes, in regards to the anti-villain arc. Their shared desire to do “right” may push them down a rather dark and unforgiving path. Daenerys’s god-like characteristics, as Sam very rightly pointed out, make her the most likely candidate but Tyrion is not far behind.
Sansa… I do not know. I cannot shake the feeling that, contrarily to the other two, she started out as an antagonist, narratively speaking. A relatively mild one (she was only twelve / thirteen; she could not do much ^^) but she was the “bad” Stark. The “traitor”. The Stark who did not want to be a Stark. Considering how everything in the setup was done to make us, readers / viewers, love the Starks, her original rejection of her family unit could qualify her as an initial antagonist. So, in my mind, her storyline may actually go the other way around.
A Dornish Tyrell,
Bran is a tough one. He is possessed by magic in a way but not quite magical himself. Not yet, at least. The three-eyed raven we met had entirely fused with the magical world while Bran still has some room not to be absorbed by it.
So he may very well not die. Maybe he will have some kind of “half-life”… In relative isolation, on the margin of society.
(Put that tinfoil hat back on ! It is the epitome of fashion 😉 )
As for the White Walkers and the dragons, you are entirely right. We have no knowledge, I think, of the White Walkers during the dragonfest that were the first couple of centuries of Targaryen rule. However, we know very little of what has been going on north of the Wall at any given time. All we have are the Free Folk’s myths which are about as reliable as oral tradition passed down for centuries can be.
Could it be that the White Walkers were preparing for all this time ? “Generating” more and more WW and gathering more and more wights along the way ?
For the White Walkers to “attack” seemingly, they need the perfect combination of magic and “long night”. So while the dragons were alive but no particularly tough and long winter was in sight, the Others kept to their side of the Wall, waiting, preparing… Maybe.
Perhaps they are not in complete symbiosis with the dragons but somehow reinforced by them. I think it is noted somewhere that wildfire burns longer and hotter when dragons are alive. It may be the same with White Walkers. Their existence does not depend on that of the dragons but they are “powered” by them. Maybe ? ^^
That’s the only explanation I can come up with and I pretty much made it up. 😉
But you and ghost of winterfell are absolutely right; there are bits missing for this theory to be considered confirmed.
At last, a Daenerys fan ! Yippee ! 🙂
To be fair, Craster seemed to live rather peacefully with the White Walkers. He had a nice deal going on… Sacrifice a couple of babies a year and be left alone by Death made Ice. Not that different from dragons being fed on a regular basis to keep them from hunting and killing their preys.
The one problem with any theory anyone of us might have about the Others is that, quite frankly, we know virtually nothing factual about them. We have myths, legends, tales, prophecies but facts… Not much aside from 1) they can be killed by dragonstone and Valyrian steel; 2) they can reawaken the dead; 3) they come from humans. That’s hardly enough to fill a post-it note. 😉
Furthermore, many of the prophecies and myths we have about the White Walkers come from the “fire” side of the “song”, not the “ice” one which should probably know more (and be less negatively biased against the cold ^^) : Lord of Light followers and Targaryens.
Do the White Walkers truly bring the storm / the night with them or are they contingent to it ? Who knows ?
What have they been doing north of the Wall for centuries ? No idea. Did any Westrosi really bother looking into it, comfortable in the certitude whatever those creatures were, they could not pass the Wall anyway ? Perhaps not.
The Others are Death; it is now established. And the dragons are fire made flesh. At the very least, it is not entirely reassuring, is it ? Fire can be great but not just.
It does remove some of the moral grayness, certainly. But not the potential for disaster.
The image of a dragon’s shadow over King’s Landing, which we know to be a powder keg, was hardly the stuff of peaceful dreams and quiet slumber. What if the inhabitants of King’s Landing, seeing dragons, panick and start attacking the creatures ? The dragons would defend themselves and fire up, as they should. Which may set the city alight.
It is a completely fictional scenario, of course. But not entirely improbable. Evil intentions or awful morality are not needed for catastrophe to occur.
Dragons are big, potentially lethal creatures. And Daenerys’s control over them is fluctuating. Who knows what could happen ?
I think you’re absolutely right. And I find deliciously ironic that Sansa (the Stark who wanted to be somewhere else) has not only asserted her “Starkness”, but was also instrumental in retaking Winterfell; whereas Arya (the über Stark), as per her conversation with Lady Crane, wants to travel to the edge of the world (i.e., no longer to go back home… or at least not permanently).
Thinking about how Tyrion could manifest as an anti-villain keeps drawing me back to an analogy that has been in my mind ever since I first started reading AGoT: Though he doesn’t cite it often, I’m convinced that one of GRRM’s literary influences for this tale was Robert Graves’s I, Claudius and/or the 1970s TV series based on it. From the beginning I saw strong similarities between the characters of Tyrion and Claudius. Both are more interested in the power of knowledge than in power for its own sake – in fact, Claudius wants to see the Roman Republic restored. Just as Tyrion is never viewed as a serious contender for the throne on account of his dwarfism, so Claudius is discounted and treated as a joke because he has twitches, a stutter and a limp. Thus he manages to survive when all his more ambitious relatives are busy poisoning each other and stabbing each other in the back, and accidentally ends up acclaimed as the next Caesar upon the death of Caligula.
He does all he can to be a good emperor and undo the atrocities of his forebears, building aqueducts for a clean water supply and stockpiling grain to prevent famines. But eventually Claudius comes around to the conclusion that the people of Rome will never revolt against the Empire and demand a return to the Republic if their leaders are nice to them. So in his old age he deliberately becomes a bad emperor, believing that’s the only way to bring the dynasty to an end.
That’s the sort of anti-villain arc that, to me, would make a lot of sense for Tyrion: doing wrong in the short term toward a long-range goal of doing right, even knowing that he’ll never get any credit for his foresight.
Glad to read genial, enlightening discussion about Dany this time. We’ve moved on from Sansa/LF/Jon, yey! (not that I didn’t enjoy those chats)
Jay Targ,
I concur! We can’t have Mad Queen vs. Mad Queen. (Mirror, mirror, on the wall. Who’s the maddest of them all???) I’ve not subscribed to the idea that Dany would become one. Sure, she had shown behaviors that others interpreted as cruelty but I think that’s what happens when one gains power (in her case, powerful dragons and fireproof ability). Power does corrupt – if the person who possesses it doesn’t have or doesn’t develop the fortitude to control it. (Isn’t this the theme of most superhero movies these days?) I think part of Dany’s story is not just embracing her power but also, maybe more so, controlling it/keeping it in check. The show placed Tyrion in her story so there’s someone who can help her in that regard.
Like you, I have also envisioned that kind of ending – Dany, the rightful Targaryen heir, the one expected to conquer the whole of Westeros and take the IT at all cost (death, destruction, etc.) but end up sacrificing herself to save it; and then Jon, the bastard, the one expected to be the hero and sacrifice himself but end up sitting on the IT. Oh, the irony of it all.
ACME,
Indeed, the consequences of the dragons and the hundred-thousands of unruly, savage warriors descending on KL could potentially become catastrophic – unless Cersei doesn’t give a fight and surrenders, which mostly likely isn’t happening. The people of Westeros might then see Dany as the “antagonist” in that sense because of the destruction she brought with her.
Ι second that! I’ve enjoyed all the relevant posts 🙂
Couldn’t agree more 🙂
Btw: I love your tinfoil hat! May I borrow it sometime? 😀 😀
And now to Dany:
I had been increasingly nervous about her, not because of all that Mad Queen business – as most have mentioned we already have one, Cercei! – but about her being able to handle her power and the responsibility that comes with it and the consequences of her actions. I believe that Tyrion is indeed the best company for her, because he does bring something… sober (yes, I do realize the irony!) to the way she exercises that power.
That said, I think that Dany is more of a Force of magic/nature (that’s why in contrast to others of our warriors, she’s the only one who is actually worshipped almost as a God – or God- sent).
Taking the Iron Throne will not bring her the gratification she thinks. Yes, she’s a great Conqueror but that’s not the essence of what she’s meant to do. Which means that even if she takes over Westeros and anything else in the world, she will still not be content: deep down she knows she’s not meant for earthy kingdoms.
IT isn’t the end of her journey, as she may think : I believe that the moment she came out the funeral pyre with her newborn dragons, she answered her true call.
She goes on like nothing changed, keeping her mind to the IT objective as a motive to act, because she thinks that’s her calling , while in reality, the moment she came out of that pyre, she triggered the mechanism of her true part in all this. She just doesn’t realize it yet – she doesn’t know that there’s a greater game going on.
Taking IT, may be a means to end for the big picture of her arc, and I think the big picture of her arc is to play a major role at the Great War.
I too have come to think that perhaps it is Dany that will sacrifice herself somehow to bring the end to this, or play a major role acting as a catalyst to the matter. She is a character intensely connected to magic, and as I have mentioned before, WW are a product of magic, hence they can only be undone with the help of magic or supernatural interposition.
To the villain/anti-villain matter:
I think that that we have repeatedly seen that characters are not plainly black or white, but rather carry more than 50 shades of grey (excuse the pun!).
The difference of our heroes and heroines under question with the ‘real’ villains, is that most of them are pushed by circumstances / heat of the moment to do some things that aren’t exactly what the tradition of being good guy or gal dictates they should do.
But they are moved and aspired to act with good intentions and they lean towards the right means most of the time. (OK I can see that thought -cloud over your heads: ‘The road to Hell is paved with good intentions! Gotcha! 😛 )
Nonetheless I feel that Dany has already faced many of the dangers that could potentially lead her to the dark side.
Lastly on the WW and dragons relationship.
I think we know too little about them to reach a safe conclusion about whether there’s a connection and if so in what way.
My train of thought starts with the fact Dragons have existed before and without any WW involvement.
They became extinct because as mentioned ‘magic was dissapearing from the world’ (which we know isn’t true, because WW still exist); hmm.. no.
Likely something the Maesters did: they dislike magic. I think they drove dragons to extinction. There’s a dark secret to the Maesters’ role in the story I think.
If we assume that Dragons are in general a force used for the greater good, then they indeed make a very timely comeback.
But, we can’t ignore the fact that they only come back through Dany: they come as a package. Therefore, Dany reborn as Unburnt through that pyre (dragons hatched as a consequence to her ‘rebirth’) is the real opposing force to the Ice side of the WW and dragons just her tools. She’s ‘hatched’ now because it is the right time to be hatched, humanity needs her.
If we look at things trough that prism, I believe the situation may get a bit clearer – we were focussing on the dragons, while we should keep focus on Dany herself.
That still leaves the big question unanswered. Why did the WW make their come -back now, after many thousands of years? (and I note they weren’t extinct and just suddenly came out of nowhere; they were there this entire time, lurking in the shadows). So, what’s so special about now , that they decide to finally go for it (whatever that it is)? What were they waiting for these thousands of years?
And the other big question: why didn’t the humans/Children of the Forrest hunt them all down and wipe them out, once and for all, last time? If they had defeated them completely, they wouldn’t be there anymore, and humans wouldn’t have to build the Wall, and leave those poor Wildings on the other side. Something doesn’t add up, to my view.
Unless, all that happened last time with the Battle for the Dawn and etc, was just a temporary patch that would buy the necessary time until the right people are born, until ‘stars align’ in the proper way let’s say- and all parties in the past knew about it. If so, everything we have seen until now, this chain of events, was not random – and more important it was foreseen.
Just some thoughts – I’m still working with numerous possibilities in my head! 🙂
By all means!! Please feel free to borrow it whenever you like. I have thousands of them you can choose!! 😛 😛
By the way, you have written a great post and given me many thoughts to ruminate. 😀
To quote the brilliant thinker Walder Frey: “every sword needs a sheath” 🙂
Leaving all sexual innuendos aside, I believe this is really true in the case of Dany. She sometimes is very rushed in her judgments and her sense of justice more often than not resembles that of vengeance. The burning of Mirri Maaz Duur and that time when she fed a Meereenese master to her dragons comes to mind. Even the crucifixion of random masters or the execution of Mossador were rushed and, let’s say, excessive. Sure, they deserved some kind of punishment, no questions there. But again, in those situations, Dany acted as the sole judge, jury and executioner. Her words were The Law. Time and time again Jorah and Barristan counseled restrain, and in many occasions she chose not to listen to them… Luckily for her, Tyrion seems to be more persuasive (and better politically experienced).
And just to be clear, I’m not demonising Dany. She has the best of intentions at heart. But she was never truly “educated” to be a ruler. Most of her life she was physically and mentally mistreated by her brother, used as a pawn in Illirio’s, Varys’ and Doran Martell’s machinations, forced into an unwanted marriage, etc… And she managed to rise above all that and become a force to be reckoned with. That’s amazing!! But the fact that she was victimised for such a long time does not guarantee she is going to become a good ruler. She needs advisors, and more importantly, she needs to listen to her advisors.
I, like you, belive that Dany won’t find joy in the IT… And probably there won’t be an IT to seat in if the Mad Queen Cersei keeps her promise of burning cities to the ground… 🙂
I am not sure what tribulations will she find out before realising she has to go north to help Jon deal with the WW, but I don’t think it will be that easy for her in the meantime.
This is very interesting!!! I have some thoughts regarding Dany and magic, but I’ll have to come back later for that. 🙂
Is Littlefinger really winning right now??? What happened???? I though Jon would win easily … He is third and Danny second … No surprise Cersei only has 1%.
Mag,
Spamming and bots 🙂 .
The matter has been discussed in detail in the comments above…
The race is back on! I’m not sure if they stopped the robobots or just “fixed” the election, but I’m excited!
Danyrion – 28%
SnowBear – 26%
CersBurn – 0.94% (Bless!)
Petsa (Cheesy, I know!) – 45%
I’m loving all of the very insightful discussion, btw, and by all means, carry on.
Ginevra,
It still looks really really iffy to me. Two days ago you could see the number of votes cast. 19,994. That disappeared pretty quickly and at the time Dany had 81%% of the vote. That gave her about 16,200 votes. Now LF has 52% and Dany has 24%. If Dany’s 16,200 only amounts to 24% of the total now (without factoring in any additional votes for her over two days) LF suddenly got about 32,000 votes when for the first four days, he got hardly any?
It’s obvious from all the FB comments that the popularity of Jon and Dany was the contest. LF is now getting over half the votes? Nah, it’s all too much of a stretch to have confidence in the vote now.
A Dornish Tyrell: By all means!! Please feel free to borrow it whenever you like. I have thousands of them you can choose!!
Oh, thanks you are very kind!!! I’ll take that one, with the antennas for a better reception!!! 😀 😀
By the way, you have written a great post and given me many thoughts to ruminate.
Very glad you’ve found it of interest! I’m looking forward in reading your approach and ideas – 2 heads are better than one, and 3 heads even better (pun intended) 🙂
We have 10 months to solve the mystery! 😀
She sometimes is very rushed in her judgments and her sense of justice more often than not resembles that of vengeance.
Definitely so – that was exactly the reason I got worried too. Even in season 6 she was still ‘working’ on the matter. I can’t recall the exact episode and lines, but I do recall she was saying something about burning down some cities to get rid of the enemy, and Tyrion stopped her and suggested a more sober solution that would protect the innocent. Dany’s sometimes like that saying ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ – hurting the innocent in her attempt to defeat her enemies. Very much like a fire: when it starts going, it burns the green along with the withered.
I think, as mentioned, that Tyrion is indeed the best man for her Hand, acting as a fire protection zone and hopefully will be a good friend and advisor that will play a significant role in her decisions from now on.
And probably there won’t be an IT to seat in if the Mad Queen Cersei keeps her promise of burning cities to the ground…
LOL! I suspect so too – now that will make another unforgettable moment!!!!!!!! 😀
ACME
The one problem with any theory anyone of us might have about the Others is that...
I’ve just read that post – I hadn’t seen it: we have more or less the same questions 🙂 Totally agree with your train of thought! 🙂
So I went to the voting site just for the heck of it. I stopped after it looked like bots were used. Now you have to confirm you are not a robot before voting. Not sure when they implemented that. Still baffling that Baelish has that many votes.
Newbietothegame,
You can still use bots with captchas, apparently. I haven’t been to the site since Dany’s initial round of bot votes were purged, but I just checked and it looks like they’ve dumped a bunch of Littlefinger’s as well. He had surged to something like 56% when I’d last checked a few days ago, and now it’s more or less a three-way race again. However, the LF contingent started their round-the-clock ballot stuffing long before Team Dany first brought the bots in, so you’re still seeing the inflated numbers from that. They’ve basically made a career out of this.
It’s pretty hilarious that this thing has devolved into a contest over whose stans have the most sophisticated knowledge of poll-hacking software. I legitimately did not see that one coming.
Halfman,
The thing is we do not quite know what HBO did with the Daenerys votes generated by bots. Were they redistributed among the other three candidates or were they binned ? If the latter (which would make more sense), then we can assume that at least 14,000 votes were removed from Daenerys’s score and from the overall total. That would leave us with a relatively small pool of ballots (about 5000) somewhat evenly spread between 3 candidates. A good old-fashioned “spamming” wave (voting repeatedly for the same candidate) could easily sway that one way or the other (or the other ^^).
But, from what Newbietothegame indicates, HBO appears to have finally decided to take precautions against bots. Good ! That should make the whole thing much more interesting in the long run. Smarter marketing ! 😉
A Dornish Tyrell,
Absolutely ! The parallel yet opposite ways in which the sisters’ respective story arcs run is rather beautiful, to be honest.
Firannion,
From a purely narrative viewpoint, it would be a quite stunning arc for Tyrion.
The only thing that keeps me from letting my enthusiasm overtake me on this (^^) is that, in order for such a plan to work as such, Tyrion would need to have power in his own name. To be at the top of the food chain. Unfortunately, due to his short stature, it is most unlikely to happen; Hand of the Queen is, I believe, as high as he can get given the Planetosi prejudiced worldview.
So for him to sabotage the monarchy so as to create the perfect conditions for a rebellion against the powers-that-be (the ever-so-entitled nobility) and generate popular demands for a more representative form of government, he would have to throw whichever monarch he works for under the bus…
Well, it is true that Daenerys still has two treasons coming her way so who knows ? ^^
(By the way, I cannot help but point out that the Claudius plan looks an awful lot like what Littlefinger did… Throw the apple of discord amongst the nobles, let them eat one another thereby clearing the way for new, never-tried-before players (women, bastards, cripples and broken things) rendering the whole system more representative, in a weird way, and making the people so unhappy with its rulers it rebelled, through religion ? Forgive me for quoting from the musical Hamilton here : will they know you rewrote the game ? 😉 )
———
And now, for something completely different 🙂
SiriuslyStark
If we assume that Dragons are in general a force used for the greater good, then they indeed make a very timely comeback.
That is quite the thing, isn’t it ? 😉
From what we can gather from Planetos’s history, dragons have not been a force used for the greater good, generally speaking. The only time when we know for certain they were utilised in a positive way was when Daenerys put an end to slavery in Meereen. Other than that, they helped maintain the same abhorrent social system in Valyria and made Aegon’s invasion (at the cost of tens of thousands of lives) possible. Hardly a great track record ^^
(Maybe they helped during the first Long Night but we know nothing for sure at this point)
They are a force, that is quite certain. However, whether they are a force for good or not is entirely dependent upon who controls them. Or even whether someone controls them at all. In this regard, they are entirely similar to the White Walkers : as long as they were controlled by the Children of the Forest, they were a force for “good” (as defined by said Children) and then, they went rogue…
ASOIAF and GOT are permeated by a Frankenstein-theme, the creature turning against its creator (watch out, Qyburn…): be it Ramsay killing Roose, the former’s hounds killing him, Tyrion killing Tywin, the White Walkers turning against the Children of the Forest, etc. I believe it may also be somewhat interesting to point out that the creatures’ rebellions have never been “unprovoked” : Roose baited Ramsay with his newborn, legitimate son; Ramsay starved his hounds; Tywin betrayed Tyrion… It, of course, begs the question : what did the Children of the Forest do to/with the White Walkers ? Hurry up Sam and Bran, goddammit, we need your knowledge, stat ! ^^
As far as we can tell, the dragons have never turned against their “creators” (though we still do not know what happened to Valyria, exactely) but who can be certain they never would/will ?
Daenerys, for all means and purposes, hatched the dragons. But, while she calls herself their mother (and seems to feel genuine affection towards them), she appears to consider them first and foremost as creatures to be used to serve her purpose, part pets, part weapons.
As you, Sam and a Dornish Tyrell have extremely rightly pointed out, she does have a very ruthless streak. Unbending, unforgiving. Prone to reacting with excessive force and intolerant of disobedience.
Could she push the dragons too far and lose their “allegiance”, so to speak ? Could the dragons start running amok ?
Watch out, Westeros… ^^
elybe,
To be fair, I would say that it appears all three fanbases (Daenerys’s, Jon’s and Littlefinger’s) are ballot stuffing. It has been openly discussed in this most sacred of places that is this very website ^^
Which brings us to the single most interesting thing revealed by this “election” : only Cersei’s fans are criminally honest people ! With scores like hers, there is no way any kind of repetitive voting is going on in her corner of the electorate. The Mad Queen therefore appears to have the monopoly over upstanding, by-the-book web-citizens (and people who cannot figure out cheatcodes ^^)
I already said somewhere that I expected HBO to reveal, on September 1st, that Cersei won because “Her Grace burnt down all the ballot boxes and crowned herself”. I think it would be meta-funny. But considering the impeccable-to-a-fault sportsmanship of her supporters, I now kind of really want it to happen 😉
Long may She reign !
ACME,
Who knows how it works lol. Having had Jon and Dany stuck on 18% each for nearly two days and LF on 64%, in the last few hours, all three suddenly now have percentages in the 30s with over 1.3 million votes cast ?
Really? Somehow I’m unconvinced.
Halfman,
Ha ha ha ha ! I had not been on the voting page in a couple of days (they added a total, as you noted).
Maybe the votes are not immediately counted ? Maybe they are “stocked” and only added to the total as a block, once a day (and not during the weekend…)
But you’re entirely right. Who knows what HBO is doing… And who cares as long as it keeps the competition going 😉
ACME,
Oh, there’s no question that all fanbases have been guilty of manual spamming to an extent, but we both know that there’s realistically no way that LF/Sansa come anywhere close to Jon’s or Dany’s numbers without a concentrated effort to spam continuously that goes well above and beyond anything Jon or Dany fans (bots notwithstanding in her case) are doing. We’re talking about two of the most popular and iconic characters on the show (with Tyrion and Lyanna as their running mates, no less) versus a relatively low-key villain and a protagonist who is considerably more polarizing and who seldom even cracks the top-10 in most online polls. Venture outside of Tumblr, and the current standings make zero sense.
Also, while I can’t speak to the supposed honesty of Cersei voters, you can add Jon voters to the bot-free club. His numbers have held as steady as Cersei’s, with no sudden surges, whereas Dany and LF have been through one obvious cycle of bot-voting and purging each.
Baelish low-key villain? I don’t know how you watch the show but you don’t have to read the books to know that Littlefinger is the natural arch-villain of the story. On the unnatural side it’s the Night’s King.
Also you probably have no idea how many LF fans are out there and more importantly you should know there are many GOT or ASOIAF fans that finds happy Dany or Jon ending very cliche and cheesy so that they vote for LF.
elybe,
I have no doubt that, were the game played entirely “by the book”, Daenerys and Jon, as overall fan favourites, would be the only two real contenders, with Cersei and Littlefinger sharing the crumbs. However, it appears that no one is playing “by the book”.
Which is entirely fine by me, by the way ! ^^
I am not judging anyone. At all. There is no moral high ground to seize, I believe. My reference to the exemplary rectitude of Cersei’s fans was merely a joking allusion to her less-than-stellar moral upstanding 😉
This “election” is harmless fluff; a mere marketing device, albeit a wonderfully amusing and intelligently put together one. There is literally nothing a stake here, not even some honourary prize. So if fans, of any and all creeds 😉 , want to circumvent the rules and vote more than once a day, they are wholeheartedly welcome to it, as far as I am concerned.
If we are discussing the ethics of cheating, either by little or by a lot, either by more or less numerous and dedicated hands or by bots, it is merely a difference in degree, not in nature ^^
The only substantive chiasm between cheating a little and a lot manifests itself when one of the “candidates” suddenly gains a massive lead over the others. Then many fans feel disenfranchised and stop voting. It sucks the entertainment value out of the process and many, if not most, people stop having fun. It seems to have happened twice now and, beyond any shaky moral standpoint, it is simply daft and counterproductive. The whole point of the thing (beyond increasing digital sales, of course) is to have fun debating the pros and cons of each candidacy, getting involved and supporting one’s “guy”.
As long as the competition looks clean-ish (whether it truly is or not) and the main two contenders still have a very real shot at winning, then it should all be fine ^^
I shall try…
Of course, first I would have to go to Tumblr, understand what it is to then proceed to venture outside of it. But why not ? New experiences are always informative ^^
Not that it really matters in the scheme of things, but if they want people to feel they are participating in something worth bothering with, they need to address what is happening now. Dany has been on 32%, Jon on 31% and LF on 36% for 48 hours now, despite about 18,000 votes being cast in that time ( current vote count 1,340,296). So it’s still pretty much a farce.
The vote count doesn’t change when you vote either.
They probably aren’t fussed though. C’est la vie.
Indeed: at this point this is possible! The analogy with the the creation of WW is very interesting.
Though, the difference – which is essential I think – is that the dragons were not created by someone. They existed as creatures on their own right. But whether something is a force of nature, or a created weapon, like the WW, it will have its consequences, and whether it will be a good or a bad thing will depend on the how it’s used and to what end.
The dragons can very well be a deadly weapon but the basis for my thinking was that they weren’t used to completely wipe out humans, as it seems to be the case with the WW. So, yes, they were used for power, and yes, there were many innocent lost, but they weren’t used as a weapon of mass destruction like/to the extend of the WW.
Even the way WW were created is highly questionable as the Children went to extremes- turning a human into a WW using this dark kind of magic – and that does rather cancel whatever right they had in this situation.
And,lastly, while the possibility of dragons going stray is definitely a terrifying one, there are only 3 dragons (and their number had been limited in the past too) in contrast to the zillions of WW 😀
(I think Westeros ,at this moment, is likely in more danger due to its current Queen that likes to… light things up, than from Dany’s dragons 😉 ^^ )