This is probably the episode you sat down to watch with your parents and for that I am sorry but also deeply amused.
Spoiler Note: This recap and the comments section may contain mild spoilers from George R.R. Martin’s novels and Westeros histories, whether or not that material has appeared on the show yet. If you have not read the books and wish to remain completely Unsullied, we encourage you to check out our non-book-reader recap by Oz of Thrones!
This week, Rhaenyra’s parade of marriage misery continues with a tour through Storm’s End and a sea of proposals, each one progressively worse. It climaxes with a proposal from a kid, though we’ll give the young Lord Blackwood points for style, straight up murdering the Bracken jerk who mocks him. A fed-up Rhaenyra hightails is out of there, with her ever-present Kingsguard Criston Cole at her side. As they arrive back at King’s Landing, Daemon’s dragon Caraxes says hello a little too excitedly, swooping in to practically kiss their boat. Looks like her uncle is back in town!
King Viserys gives his younger brother a formal greeting before the court, and Daemon swaggers in with a new do and a new crown (which frankly looks like a child’s toy). He claims others have dubbed him King of the Narrow Sea, but Daemon cedes the title and his rinky-dink crown to his brother in a show of false humility. The brothers embrace warmly, and the afterparty commences.
As usual, Otto Hightower lurks and gathers info like a big creeper. Queen Alicent lurks in a more gentle, welcome manner on the edges of her husband’s conversations. Rhaenyra feels left out of the jubilation and sulks, still mulling over the marriage business.
Spying Rhaenyra’s alienation, Alicent joins her old friend and gets her to open up about her fears. Alicent is able to bring some perspective to the situation- Rhaenyra gets a choice in her marriage, unlike most noble women. The women’s friendship begins to truly reconcile.
Daemon joins Rhaenyra in the godswood and you can see this is becoming the place where she can truly be honest, where her heart is exposed and open. And once again, these two speak Valyrian as though it is their secret love language, flowing in and out, so they can be free with one another. He speaks cruelly of his wife, and she admits her valid fears of birthing. He encourages her to live, nonetheless.
In a Small Council meeting, the leaders fret over the Sea Snake’s plans. Corlys Velaryon is still holding a grudge and now he’s planning a marital alliance with Braavos. Otto once again hints that a marriage alliance of their own with Corlys’s family could mend that old wound.
Rhaenyra receives a secret delivery of a map that helps her escape the Red Keep disguised as a boy. She meet with Daemon and they go on an adventure in the filthy streets of King’s Landing, watching an unflattering play about her family. Rhaenyra runs into Harwin Strong who recognizes her, but lets her go, disguise intact. Daemon brings her to someplace even more scandalous…
Meanwhile Viserys engages in intimate time with Alicent, taking a bath and then slipping into bed together. Alicent is not that into it.
Daemon uses the brothel to demonstrate to Rhaenyra that sex isn’t just about marriage and birthing and death; it can be about pleasure, and something had outside of marriage. The two of them begin to kiss and go beyond; Rhaenyra wants even more but Daemon finally pulls back.
Rhaenyra flees the brothel and returns to the Red Keep, not realizing a boy of the city has recognized and followed her home.
Rhaenyra is all hot, bothered and unfulfilled by her antics with Daemon. She playfully seduces Ser Criston Cole into her bed, getting him to lay down his cloak and his vows for a night with his princess. He’s conflicted but in the end, gives in to his feelings completely.
The young boy who followed Rhaenyra reports what he saw to Otto Hightower, and one of the men mentions the messenger comes from “The White Worm.”
Daemon wakes up in a city hovel with Mysaria looking after him. Boy, he’s rude when he’s hungover. She leaves his ass there, like he deserves.
Otto snitches to Viserys that Rhaenyra was seen “carrying on with her uncle” in a pleasure house. Viserys doesn’t want to hear it and rightly suspects Otto of machinations relating to baby Aegon. Still…you can’t unring that bell.
The morning after, Rhaenyra is glowing and Ser Criston awkwardly is the one who brings her a summons from the queen.
Alicent is giving her old bestie in giving her a head’s up about the shitstorm to come, courtesy of her dad the Hand. But hilariously, Rhaenyra did so much last night she’s not sure what Alicent is talking about at first. When she figures THAT out, she denies it hotly (because Daemon backed off and she fucked someone else, natch). She swears on the memory of her mother that she didn’t do the deed with Daemon, which isn’t technically a lie, but do you want to rely on technicalities when you’re swearing on your mom in a godswood, before the heart’s tree? I wouldn’t. But Rhaenyra is 18, and all Targaryen guts.
Daemon is brought to the king, and questioned about the night before, with the Catspaw dagger helpfully threatening him. Daemon graciously offers to wed Rhaenyra, despite already being married. There’s another ballsy fucker, right there. They really are a well-matched pair, but then they are related. Daemon is not successful in winning over his brother and he is exiled again.
Alicent stands by Rhaenyra, but Viserys is forced to admit Rhaenyra probably did something.
Summoned to him to discuss her shenanigans, Viserys gives Rhaenyra a history lesson on the Catspaw dagger – the prophecy of the prince that was promised and the song of ice and fire is laid into the dagger itself. Viserys is done playing nice about marriage: Rhaenyra must marry Laenor Velaryon.
But Otto is a problem too. He may have been a value employee and wife-supplier once but now he’s a liability. Otto Hightower has overplayed his hand, and now he is fired.
Viserys sends Rhaenyra a nice cuppa moon tea to make sure she doesn’t get pregnant. No worries, Rhae. Dad thought of everything. (We don’t see her drink it, buuuuuut….I’m guessing she will.
Thinky Thoughts
Rhaenyra and Criston: I’m so glad a woman directed- well the whole episode but especially this scene. There’s something achingly sad about it. Criston is tormented with a hundred decisions and he loves her, meanwhile Rhaenyra’s playing and giggling. The way it’s filmed through the grates and the reflection as though we’re watching something forbidden (I suppose we are) gives it a beautiful secretive touch. I love Milly Alcock and Fabien Frankel’s performances in the scene, their faces say so much.
Rhaenyra and Daemon: People will get hung up on the incest, but whatever, they’re Targaryens. And they’re canon. So accept it (or don’t watch, I guess). Anyway, I appreciated that Alcock and Matt Smith were able to keep the pleasure house scene so firmly centered on the emotional in a clean way, when they are surrounded by an orgy. Yeah, they want to fuck, but it’s based in feelings and character. That’s what’s interesting.
The Female Gaze: It’s present throughout the episode, not just in the Rhaenyra/Criston sex scene. The pleasure house scene is directed well, and it doesn’t feel exploitative. The journey is all through Rhaenyra’s eyes. The scene with Alicent and Viserys is very much focused on Alicent’s experience and lack of enjoyment.
The White Worm: So, Mysaria is working with Otto Hightower. She’s a woman of many skills and secrets, and we’re only beginning to learn. Daemon was a fool to insult her. And Otto may be temporarily down but is he out? C’mon, you know better. Her and Otto working together promises to be very interesting.
Music on point: It’s overstating it at this point to compliment Ramin Djawadi but the music was noticeably gorgeous to me tonight, from the piano in the opening scene (rarely used on GoT, too soon to tell about HOTD) to the beautifully complex scoring that accompanied the Rhaenyra-Criston sex scene.
Daemon’s new look: Oof, that wig hairline…it’s rough, buddy. Like Sean Bean GOT Season 1 wig rough. Thank goodness everyone was more occupied with all the incest and boning business tonight, it distracted from whatever that was.
In Summation: This was probably my favorite episode to date. Not because of the name-dropping of the Prince/Ice & Fire prophecy or any other fan-servicey bit but because of the way the characters and scenes all felt like they came together and gelled. (I suppose I might have liked to see Corlys, instead of just hearing about him, but he was the only piece I missed.) I honestly didn’t know what to expect from Ira Parker as a writer (never saw any of his other shows), but I did have high hopes for Clare Kilner after her directing work on The Alienist and I wasn’t let down by them at all. House of the Dragon has somewhat suffered from a problem GoT had which is that having great individual scenes doesn’t necessarily create a unified great episode, but I felt like this was a great episode altogether. The characters were well-served and I want to know what happens next to them all. (Even when I kinda know already.)
Valar Morghulis
The dumb Bracken jock: watch out for skinny kids, dude- they’re fast and they know what to do with the pointy end
Me in Episode 1: “Not feelin’ Matt’s wig.”
Me in Episode 2: “Not feelin’ Matt’s wig.”
Me in Episode 3: “Not feelin’ Matt’s wig.”
Me in Episode 4: “……….give it back immediately.”
Yeah, a bit awkward watching this with my dad. But that’s the risk you take when you watch an ASOIAF universe show. Or any HBO show. We all know this going in.
Rinky dink crown? He made that from the materials (crab claws and bones) from the Stepstones. It’s symbolic, and hard won, vs a crown that was made for someone who was born into his title and won no wars for it. (And I love Viserys! No dig on him.)
A crown made by the bones of your enemies is a better crown than one you just inherited.
Harrumph! 🙂
To address the rest of your review, yes, this one felt so very different. And it was the female gaze aspect. Like, the pleasure house felt electric and shocking to a girl who has never seen that sort of thing, but it was also a weird turn on and filled her with a desire that Daemon didn’t expect. The Criston Cole scene was a bit of a reverse “male higher up ordering a woman underling” feel, and you see the crisis in his face, but it was also filmed and scored romantically with such great music – like you would normally see with reverse genders (still don’t know how I feel about that scene! Was there consent? Can there be consent?) And her undressing him as you would normally see a man undressing a woman was sweet. (Though still, consent or not?)
I had lots of feeling about this episode.
LunarHexagon,
Yeah but it looked like crap 🤷🏼♀️
This was my favorite episode thus far. So so well directed and the cast is phenomenal. Really top tier thrones episode.
Great episode. Extremely well written.
Benjicot!
Am I the only one who is excited to have him introduced already, even if his name was not used? We learned that kid can fight.
Also, I gotta say – Fabien Frankel nailed that scene (pun maybe intended). I love actors who can say a million things with just their eyes (looking at you, Iain Glen…sigh), and FF gets across a lot of conflicting emotions there. And of course he’s a gorgeous man which never hurts, but Criston’s vulnerability was shown in spades.
I’ve said it before, but I will very much miss Milly Alcock and Emily Carey. I think they’re wonderful.
Rhys Ifans was fantastic this episode as well. I had a moment of empathy.
And the weirwood scenes and costumes were so darn pretty. Viserys’ “gotta kick my brother’s ass” outfit for the win.
The writers are making Princess Rhaenyra similar to Arya Stark as much as possible. Princess Rhaenyra watched a Play about her family and was called a “Boy” just like Arya. I wonder if Princess Rhaenyra is going to start killing people like Arya.
The Catspaw dagger secrets scene isn’t anything more than what is shown in the episode teaser and then it went back to the same story line…. who will Princess Rheanyra marry?
House of the Dragon is one family’s soap opera drama… same characters and same storyline every episode… 5/10
That was the best Episode so far, by a wide margin. It finally slowed down enough to get into Rhaenyra’s character. I really enjoyed it. I have criticised GOT for its use of nudity and sex before, not because i’m a prude, I just didn’t like those scenes. This might be the first good sex scene in the whole show, walking through the pleasure house was great too. It was nice to see a female character have sex for the first time without trauma, that has happened 3(?) times in the whole show. Brienne and Jaime was rubbish, Arya and Gendry was Ok. I felt like I got to know Rhaenyra more in that hour than the previous 3 Episodes.
I feel so bad for Alicent, it was a really effective contrast between her lying back to think of England, and Rhaenyra experiencing sex on her terms. I still don’t really get Daemon, but his chemistry with Rhaenyra was palpable (as gross as that is lol). He clearly wanted her recognised, but I don’t know why he stopped. Perhaps he didn’t want to cause quite such a public scandal
Knowledge is Power,
I do agree about the play scene, I didn’t enjoy that quite so much, it was a bit too on the nose with it’s exposition. But I don’t think she is too similar to Arya in any other way. She is traumatised by her mothers death and that has obviously soured her thoughts on sex and marriage. Arya had no desire to be a lady for different reasons
I mentioned this in the open chat, but I was somewhat worried that they would be whitewashing Rhaenyra’s character, and I’m glad to see that they’re not doing that.
D&D made that mistake with Tyrion & Daenerys, and it was to the detriment of both characters – In Tyrion’s case, it brought his development to a complete standstill, and in Dany’s case, it made her turn at the end seem way too sudden.
So, letting us see Rhaenyra manipulate, take advantage of, and successfully lie to people (at least, a little bit) in this episode was reassuring to me, as it tells me these showrunners won’t make the same mistake.
BTW… would you call this episode… a banger? 😛
LunarHexagon,
With all due respect, if you are truly asking if there was consent in that scene you clearly don’t understand how men think
There was definitely consent in the Criston/Rhaenyra scene, even though he was conflicted at first. He ultimately chose to do the deed with her.
That said, Rhaenyra totally took advantage of the power dynamic to “take what she wanted”, regardless of Criston’s desires. Reverse the roles, and it looks a lot creepier…
As I mentioned in my above comment though, I actually like that. I like that Rhaenyra isn’t a completely pure-hearted character, and is willing to take advantage of people like this.
Jenny,
I think Princess Rhaenyra is very strong willed, wants to play the game her way, independent and would say “I’m not like that” just like Arya said but, Princess Rhaenyra is pretty much forced into playing the Game her father’s way for now.
Also Princess Rheanyra was on her ship just like Arya.
Prince Daemon and Princess Rheanyra will be fun to watch play the game of Thrones. The episode is better than I originally thought.. 7/10
So incredibly awesome.
Best episode of TV in the last 3 years. Riveting.
The wigs never cross my mind. I feel bad for people that feel bothered by them.
Do you ever watch things like this and think, these people must be absolutely riddled with diseases? lol
Malcolm Ferguson,
Dany has been saying for seasons she would burn cities to the ground. She had to be talked out of it countless times. It didn’t surprise me one bit and don’t think she was whitewashed at all.
Isn’t Daemon supposed to be a bad ass? He had episode 3 but he is thin, small and skinny. Imagine the Wicher vs Daemon. he would not last 5 seconds. THAT is a real white haired man.
Fireblood87,
I knew that she would end in disaster when she crucified the Masters. Selmy tried to talk her out of that. But I don’t remember anyone trying to stop her burning cities. Other than boring Tyrion right at the end. People could alway justify her actions and they didn’t want to see the obvious, but they ramped things up so quickly during S8. It was a shock to them
LunarHexagon,
Is there a real reverse power dynamics equivalent though? The decision in this specific case is still with Criston IMO (a male in a lower hierarchy position than the woman). He seems fully conscious that he has a choice, why else would he look at that damn door so torn wondering if he should act upon his impulses and desires?
Also, if Rhaenyra were a man, Criston (a woman) would not have a real choice. Why? because as Damon so clearly says and Viserys confirms in their own confrontation in the throne room, no one cares if the male is a virgin on their wedding night, not even if he is a male heir to the throne, which Rhaenyra would be in a reversed situation. So if Criston (a lower woman) would refuse Rhaenyra (a power dominant male heir), Criston would probably just be raped and I’m not sure there would be real consequences.
In our case though if Criston had refused and gone to the king and tell him what Rhaenyra was trying to do, she would be completely tarnished even if nothing happened! As we see it with the whole Daemon/ Rhaenyra/ Otto case.
Sure Viserys banished Damon (complex situation, he’s half the time banished for some thing or other), and took the office away from Otto, but that is for a different reason. As it turns out the harsh consequence is still on the woman! She now must marry per her father’s will something she never wanted and rebelled against it. In fact Daemon says “I’ll take her as she is” meaning damaged goods.
I’m not sure if I explained myself but that’s the best I can do.
EDIT: Thank you for the recap Sue and I also enjoyed the love scene. So genuine. Reminded me a tiny bit of Arya / Gendry “I’m not the damn red woman. Take your own boots off!” 😀
LunarHexagon,
He was pretty much raped. What was he going to do…say ‘no’? She quite easily could have had him killed if he refused her. The whole scene made me cringe with the out of focus shots and soft music.
Viking, it’s too bad you don’t know any men who aren’t controlled by their penis.
Winterry71,
Haha I also don’t see the wig problem. I mean I thought Matt Smith in short Targ wig was sexy. Goes to show you: different strokes for different folks. I can say it was better suited to him than that short Cersei wig!!!! 😡
LunarHexagon,
I was wondering about his consent in that scene as well. I even said out loud, “He doesn’t really want to do this.” And husband says, “Yeah he does.” But that moment when his hand lingers on the white cloak was kind of heartbreaking. And she knows the stakes for him. She knew she was goading him into something he didn’t want to do. Maybe it all ended in a sweet, romantic way, but nah… in broader context, that was off.
I think, ultimately, he’s going to regret letting his boner make that decision for him. Overall, I think he didn’t want to. When he comes to deliver Alicent’s summons, she’s got the hook-up glow “oh hey, come over here.” And he’s not in that vibe at all. He didn’t scurry over out of view of the door and give any kind of post-coital affection. He coulda been “hey there” snuggle snuggle “Sorry can’t right now, the Queen wants you.” He was all somber business.
Well, I missed the episode last night, but plan on watching it later tonight.
However, considering most of the chatter around this episode seems to be about sexual consent, I am not particularly excited to watch this one.
JenStar Runner,
Yeah…a lot of people don’t want to snuggle their rapists. Weird.
Another bad episode. This just isn’t a very good show right now unfortunately. It has a lottttt of work to do to even reach a fraction of the highs that GoT reached.
I haven’t watched episode 4 yet, but I don’t really care for this show either. I don’t think it’s bad, but it’s not very interesting or compelling to me. It’s just a bunch of “super edgy” incestuous spoiled Targaryens fighting for Daddy’s inheritance. I mean, really, if the buzz about episode 4 is “did he consent or not” then no thanks.
Maybe Viserys should go “Knives Out” on his family and disown them all. That would be more compelling
Jack Bauer 24,
This was the best written episode in this universe since season 4 of GOT.
Not really a coincidence either since 4 was the last one where….oh never mind.
How could anyone NOT like this episode? It was an adrenaline ride throughout.
I will say this.. I just set my sound bar back up for this episode since I recently moved and it makes the entire show 100x better with dope audio.
orange,
Agree. This episode gave me similar vibes to the Tyrion trial.
Mr Derp,
Eh it’s not like we’re doing Cersei/ Jamie debacle discussion for crying out loud. People cannot agree on body language in a sex scene. So obviously these discussions arise. Some won’t settle for body language at all unless it’s verbal consent all the way, some think the power dynamics are what decided it, others think Coles life was in danger if he didn’t comply I mean it’s 3 peeps typing 5 comments! Well it’s 4 if we count JenStar’s hubby lol
Just watch it and do t read Reddit and you’ll be good to go 😀
Yes, I know. I simply don’t find body language in a sex scene to be a compelling or fresh discussion and that seems to be the takeaway discussion from this episode. At least, it is here.
It also seems rather convenient that all of Rhaenyra’s suitors are ugly and old, making it rather easy for her to not be interested. I’d like to see one of these suitors actually have a bit of game for a change.
I’ll watch it either way, and give my thoughts here afterwards.
Who reads the comments and opinions of others before watching an episode?
Mr Derp,
Out of interest, do you watch Succession? That is about a load of terrible rich people vying for power. Although, they are all so desperate for their fathers love that it drives them more than anything. Succession is the master at what HotD is trying to do
Jenny,
Tyrion asked Daenerys in S6 E9 The Battle of the Bastards – “Do we have a plan”
Queen Daenerys responds “I will crucify the Masters. I will set there fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan”.
Tyrion reminds Daenerys about her father the Mad King and says “I’d like to suggest an alternate approach”…
Next scene Daenerys “My Reign has just Begun” and only destroys a few ships.
JenStar Runner,
I read it more as ‘not wanting to break his vows vs giving in to his attraction to her’. Without going into spoilers – I think it also sets up what will happen in the future between them.
Who gets butthurt over my opinions on a fictional tv show?
Haven’t seen it. I don’t watch that many shows, to be honest. Right now, I’m pretty much limited to HotD, South Park, Family Guy, and Outlander.
Mr Derp,
Who?
Winterry71,
You love the show, I don’t, so you’re going to act out and troll because I don’t share your opinion. This is all very predictable and juvenile.
Mr Derp,
You are complaining about an episode that you haven’t even watched yet. I don’t even know what to say about that. I’m not trolling anyone.
Zombae,
I don’t think killing him was on the table if he turned her down. If she was feeling spurned and grumpy about it, she could probably get him fired and sent away. She doesn’t strike me as someone who’d get vindictive and say that he’d attacked her or anything. As it is, he’s in more danger now that he did sleep with her.
But I still agree that, while he could have walked away from her (bigger stronger), he was in an unequal power dynamic and lacked full agency. That said, he has more agency than Alicent. Yoiks. That scene is as much a rape as this one.
Too bad Mr. Derp doesn’t find this topic all that interesting. The entire series centers around how much say different individuals in this kind of society have in their lives… whether it’s patriarchy, sexual expression, station, duty, unforeseen consequences, responsibility to prophecy…
Notably in Episode 3, Rhaenerya points out to Criston that his pre-King’s Guard life was better precisely b/c he had choices even if he lacks her station. One wonders why anyone wants this power considering how much even the men at the top have to give up. Viserys clearly resents his duty and responsibilities and doesn’t feel like he has much agency either. Otto, as slithery as he is, is being bullied by his slitherier brother. And the one person who does what he wants, Daemon, is considered crazy by everyone else except Rhaeneyra who wants that kind of freedom for herself.
Jenny,
”…This might be the first good sex scene in the whole show, walking through the pleasure house was great too. It was nice to see a female character have sex for the first time without trauma…”
What did I miss?? I had a work deadline and then accidentally started binge watching “Stranger Things” for the first time.
So… there was a tasteful sex scene? With the woman enjoying herself? I’m shocked!
Kathy,
That’s definitely one way to read it.
I haven’t really seen evidence that he is all that attracted to her. No longing glances or anything like that. Just that one scene in the first episode asking for her favor after everyone else’s had already been given. In fact, more often he seems a little annoyed with her b/c she’s always on the edge of getting him in trouble.
I know where this is going in the books, but just notable that there are two very conflicting accounts of their relationship.
I’m not complaining, I’m explaining to rational people why I’m not particularly excited about watching the episode. It’s a discussion on a site that’s dedicated to discussing the show.
You’re just looking for a reason to get all pissy with me because you disagree. If you don’t know what to say or if that causes you butthurt then don’t bother saying anything at all.
It must have upset Martin that Arya used the dagger in GOT or something. They are leaning heavy into this prophecy and hinting at things that we did not see play out in GOT. Three times now with the heavy handed prophecy that did not play out in GOT.
Knowing that Martin told Condal to put this into this prequel, it does make one wonder.
Me. I’m doing that right now.
Knowledge is Power,
Yeah, I mentioned Tyrion in later seasons. It happened in the example you gave (side note, I think she will do what she threatened to Meereen in the book) and when he told her to siege KL instead of attacking in S7. A strategy which decimated her armies. I would argue that a direct attack would have been kinder than a siege, minus Dany’s snap of course. Certainly based on what we saw in The Bells. Point being, she was not talked out of burning cities ‘countless times’. Interestingly, she ended up taking the advice shown in this clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL-B76vX_pw&ab_channel=Axhol3Rose
Blimey, watching that has reminded me that they used to slap so much makeup on Dany in S7, it was weird
orange,
Hard disagree. While I like House of the Dragon, it’s not on GOT’s level.
Viking,
Did you just presume that billions if male mind’s are exactly the same regarding that aspect of life? Bit of a grasping generalisation no? LOL
mopfer,
The dagger in this show is no Martin’s idea. The showrunners wanted to connect the two TV series. Prophecies are always misleading in this world.
I will piggyback on your mention of the books because I do find it an interesting topic! 😀
What I find even more fascinating about these accounts is that regardless of which account you pick from the books, the one where he’s deeply in love with her or the one where Cole refuses her (twice per Mushroom), Rhaenyra’s position as heir is not getting Ser Cole into any real trouble, not killed, or raped. Basically the power inequality of the relationship is a complete non-factor, as far as I can tell. Ser Cole is fine and dandy either way, except they hate each other.
Now if one reverses the roles I’m not sure that interaction would have the same result. Another reason why as far as I can tell it’s not a equivalent power dynamic in role reversal.
Ulf the Wolf,
Big men struggle in a fight that lasts longer than 30 second’s, skinny people can do pretty much anything, they have speed, more athleticism, more stamina etc. there is a reason most military personnel are skinny and not bulking masses.
It entirely depends on the fighters, style, experience, etc. You’d have to get more specific about what “skinny” is vs. “big”.
For example, Floyd Mayweather is skinny, but can beat just about anyone in a boxing match. However, you put him in the UFC ring and he’d get destroyed by most UFC fighters, who are much bigger. Styles make fights.
Mr Derp,
That’s not the main takeaway from the ep as far as I’m concerned!!!
I think Daemon/ Rhaenyra is. I know, it’s creepy. But somehow they make sense. It’s like Show Viserys says: they are the blood of the dragon and together they are chaotic and they do get each other. But Daemon definitely knows there’s something wrong with it. It’s probably why he stops short. When you’ll see it you’ll know what I’m saying.
That being said, it really may not be the series for you. I mean it really is about everything you mention and you don’t like. Also: no element of humor. A pity. I personally think it has really good writing and acting and generally very good potential for success.
TormundsWoman,
You’re right, it’s probably not the show for me. The entire plot is just not that compelling to me.
I’ll definitely watch tonight and let you all know what I think. I could be presuming too much. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.
Like I’ve previously said, I haven’t hated the show or even disliked it at all. I just haven’t found much to grab onto yet and am concerned this show is a bit too “one note”.
Can we talk about how dangerously stupid it was for Daemon to leave Rhaenyra alone to find her way back from Flea Bottom?
Same and I liked how these sex/intimate scenes felt so different.
However, these scenes felt like a heady fever dream with the music, the movement, and the lighting which I really liked. I felt it added a unique feeling to the whole montage and the contrast between Alicent and Rhaenyra’s experiences.
On another note, I love Rhaenyra’s actress so much and I’m kind of nervous for the actress switch over. I find myself wishing Milly Alcock and Emily Carey could stay on forever and ever and be Rhaenyra and Alicent–
…. but alas, I know that cannot be.
orange,
I disagree big time with that too each his own. People need to stop acting like George was in charge for the first four seasons. He wrote one script a season which was always heavily edited and was almost never on set. But of course D&D bad and George good.
Mr Derp,
Go watch the episode and stop being a dick to people.
LunarHexagon,
And here we have my major complaint with bloggers and commenters, in Medieval Times and right up until about 100 years ago, consent didn’t really matter much unless you were a wealthy woman being raped by a poor man. No one cared. The answer to rape in many cultures was that the rapist be willing to wed the rapee.
I just wish everyone would stop putting today’s norms on history. That goes for the script writers too. So far we’ve had multiple big scenes rammed down our throats highlighting the very real concept that women did not have the same rights as men. Yeah, so what, that’s how it was and we don’t need it constantly brought up. Yes women gave birth brutally and the majority of men cared more about the life of the baby than the mother. Yes, considering most marriages were arranged, women didn’t get any pleasure out of sex. it was a wham bam thank you maam activity done only for the man’s pleasure and to produce children. Yes, most cultures didn’t want a female reuler, after all they might toughen up those rape laws and spoil the fun of half the male population. Bottom line is those scenes are impactful enough without having a “comparison” scene imposed on it.
Knowledge is Power,
ITA but you and I might be the only two people in the world. There are no complex characterizations or interactions which is what made GOT addictive. They keep having the same conversations over and over again, succession, kingdom, succession, kingdom interspersed with enough nudity and blood to keep males age 15-50 interested.
Rhaenyra is Arya 100% and has been from the first 2 minutes of episode 1 when she said she’d rather be a knight than stay at home having babies. Daemon is Jamie, the neer do wrong with a heart of gold deep down.
I’m dumbfounded why people think this is as good as GOT. It’s a decent show but I don’t find it addictive or thought provoking like GOT. I have no desire to re-watch episodes multiple times to pick up nuances in the characters.
Oh well maybe it will get better
The Female Gaze: It’s present throughout the episode, not just in the Rhaenyra/Criston sex scene. The pleasure house scene is directed well, and it doesn’t feel exploitative.
Completely agree with this Sue! It was a great episode and I appreciate that there are a lot more women behind the scenes to provide a more nuanced (and tasteful approach). I particularly liked the music and colors used between Rhaenerya and Daemon at the brothel versus Rhanerya and Criston Cole in her room. The former was darker with darker music and the latter was more lighthearted and soft. It was interesting to see the parallels between sex, duty, pleasure, etc play out on screen and that’s coming from me as an Ace person lol
But I came across this article when I was checking to see if HotD used any intimacy coordinators, and fortunately they did!
https://www.newsweek.com/house-dragon-emily-carey-interview-scared-sex-scenes-intimacy-coordinator-help-1741439
Also the tansy tea/moon tea scene reminded me of ASOIAF – I believe Jayne Westerling’s own mother had secretly been giving her tansy tea after she and Robb got married so that she wouldn’t produce any heirs.
Malcolm Ferguson,
How did they whitewash Daenery’s character? Daenerys allowed Khal Drogo to murder her brother in front of her eyes and she did nothing, said nothing to stop it. She just looked on. I know who Viserys was but would any of the Starks have done the same if they were in her place? Not even Arya would do that. Then Daenerys had 100 plus people crucified, without really finding out who among them were guilty of the crimes she was accusing them off. She also burned the Tarlys alive. Daenerys was never that well-balanced and her violent and cruel tendencies were always there, she did try to reign her “dragon/fire” in, I’ll give her that. But if people didn’t really see who she was/could become, that’s on them.
Do you have a source for these assertions about the dagger? Big G is an executive producer of HotD, isn’t he? I appreciate that the HotD showrunners wanted to “connect” the two shows. Wouldn’t the dagger be something G would veto?
I wrote a couple of days ago that I thought it would be difficult to conform GRRM’s books! canon with GoT canon when it came to the dagger, because GoT’s showrunners kind of arbitrarily selected Arya to wield the VS dagger and shank NK, because they said “it just didn’t feel right” to have Jon do it.
You also wrote: “Prophecies are always misleading in this world.” Has that been established? GRRM hasn’t yet pulled the trigger on the prophecies he set up (and he probably never will), and GoT jettisoned most of the prophecies.
I would say that well-devised prophecies aren’t actually “misleading.” They come true, just not the way the person who relied on them assumed they would.
Like MacBeth, who interpreted prophecies to mean he’d be virtually invincible and rule a long time, yet he was doomed when the prophecies came true in ways he did not consider.
I’ve got to assume Big G worded his prophecies with the intent that they would be fulfilled in clever ways. I can’t envision he’d waste so much time constructing them if they were all throwaways – tossed in there just to
illustrate that prophecies are “misleading” and unreliable.
Then again, we will never know, will we? He is never going to finish TWOW, let alone ADOS.
My biggest disappointment? One of my tinfoil Valonqar sweepstakes nominees came oh so close
Mr Derp,
You are living in a fantasy land if you think I’m butthurt. I honestly have no clue what I said that triggered you so. Get a grip.
I hear ya! I too missed the episode last night – and all the chatter about “consent,” and the little Princess either raping CC or having a delightful tryst with him doesn’t get me excited about watching the episode.
The other complication: On Friday night my brother and his kids insisted I watch “Stranger Things.” I watched the first two episodes of S1, and so far I’m liking it. I want to keep going.
As for HotD? I reached my DSP (Dragon Saturation Point) midway through S7 of GoT, I’m not intrigued by House Targaryen
their line is gonna die off with the Mad King and his Mad Queen daughter – I may as well watch a history of House Rayne or House Hollard, and the stringy wigs have been distracting ever since Rhaegar showed up for his own wedding in GoT looking like he couldn’t be bothered to bathe, or wash or brush his hair.
Mr Derp,
You brought me up again.
I don’t care that you don’t like the show. I just find it kind of weird that you read the comments to spoil the episode and then complain about the episode before even watching it.
You do you though.
TormundsWoman,
LunarHexagon,
So according to the Inside the Episode featurette, Criston Cole is a willing party but torn because of his vows. In that sense, it definitely reminds me of Book!Jon whose internal monologue was incredibly guilt-ridden and mopey when he was with Ygritte for similar reasons (vows to the Night’s Watch).
Let me just say this show exceeded all my expectations so far. A beautiful piece of television and a gripping drama with stellar performances. Tonally it’s rather different from Game of Thrones, leaning much more towards historical and psychological drama.
Not what I expected at all.
Dark Sister,
Really stupid question upcoming, so please accept my apologies in advance.
You wrote: ”So according to the Inside the Episode featurette, Criston Cole is a willing party but torn because of his vows…”
Why in the world of GoT/HotD/ASOIAF are so many guys so anxious to take a vow of celibacy to become a member of the Kingsguard? (And presumably, to father no children and hold no lands or titles too, like NW Brothers I think)
On GoT, I saw desirable bachelors like Arthur Dayne, Jaime Lannister, and Barristan Selmy, and now on HotD, Cristin Cole a veritable GQ pinup calendar – voluntarily swearing off women. And for what? To be glorified bodyguards to fornicating, drunken and delusional kings?
Yes, I understand being a member of the elite KG is considered a high honor, and an exalted position. (Bran aspired to be a KG until his defenestration set him on a different career path.)
Is it the cool armor and the cape? Other than that, what’s the upside?
Or do they all ascribe to the “love is the death of duty” philosophy spouted by Maester Aemon? Is that it?
”…it definitely reminds me of Book!Jon whose internal monologue was incredibly guilt-ridden and mopey when he was with Ygritte for similar reasons (vows to the Night’s Watch).”
I’m not familiar with Book! Jon. Show! Jon didn’t seem guilt-ridden or mopey. He didn’t waste much time obsessing over his vows when Ygritte said “I want you to break ‘em” and stripped off her clothes.
Anyway, I don’t get the allure, or the purpose, of swearing off sex for life to be a KG.
Ten Bears,
I think I can aswer about Criston Cole: he used to be a commoner and, after becoming a knight, to be selected as a member of KG meant a significant social climb. No idea about Dayne, but Jaime had no intention to marry and looked for a reason to be in the same place with his sister/lover.
As far as I remember, the members of KG gave up marriage, not sex, so, they could have all the visits in the Flea Botton brothels they wanted, maybe also mistresses.
Ten Bears,
Well, you explained a part of it yourself. In an ostensibly honor-driven warrior society like the Seven Kingdoms, it is considered a great privilege and honor to serve as essentially top knights of the realm. There’s a lot of prestige and reputation associated with the position, not to mention a life of luxury in the royal palace.
But, because the position also comes with some problematic perks like celibacy (or at least not marrying and fathering lawful children) and forsaking lands and titles, firstborn sons of lords usually don’t find it desirable. It’s a cool posting for lesser sons of noble families because they don’t get to inherit anything and are forced to find their own way in the world or depend on their families to provide them with a reasonable post (maybe a steward, captain of the guard, household knight, etc…)
Jaime was a special case. The Mad King elevated him to the position only to screw with Tywin and rob him of his heir, probably enjoying the thought of Tywin’s heir now being “malformed” Tyrion.
grammaester d,
That is an insult to Jaime, I still think Daemon is a big baby
Dark Sister,
That’s how I read it. The conversation around consent is always important so I like reading different opinions. It was a toned down version of what happens in AFFC between whatsername and whosit in Dorne. Which I hated BTW, she did it purely to manipulate him though. Rhaenyra didn’t have an ulterior motive, she just trusted him enough to take Daemon’s place lol.
grammaester d,
This hasn’t reached the heights of GOT, but it is better than GOT S5 S7 and S8 imo. I do agree that it suffers from the single location, it feels more repetitive than it should. I always bring this up, but Succession has been doing this for 3 years and it hasn’t gotten old yet
8/10. My favorite episode so far. It was a step up from the last two episodes. My favorite scenes were the very beginning with the suitors and Otto Hightower being dismissed as Hand. I’m glad Alicient is getting some much needed development.
My one critique is that Alicient and Rhaenyra’s relationship seemed to be back to normal. Was it because it was Alicient who suggested Rhaenyra should be allowed to choose her own husband?
Jenny,
Season 5 is my least favorite season of GOT but I still consider it better written than House of the Dragon, at least so far. Last night’s episode gives me a little hope that it can reach GOT’s level, so long as the writers don’t drop the ball.
Jenny,
Agree. I’m enjoying it but thrones had huge world building and just felt bigger
Ten Bears, I think
Shy Lady Dragon and Mr Fixit answered that pretty succinctly. And as for the Night’s Watch, the majority of the men recruited take the Black as a last resort, either to avoid death, poverty, castration, etc. The men definitely frequent the brothel near Castle Black but everyone usually turns a blind eye to it as long as they don’t abandon their vows to service.
“I’m not familiar with Book! Jon. Show! Jon didn’t seem guilt-ridden or mopey. He didn’t waste much time obsessing over his vows when Ygritte said “I want you to break ‘em” and stripped off her clothes.”
That’s something I very much appreciated on GoT. They fleshed out his relationship with Ygritte and toned down the internal struggle. There was one moment in the book where he’s going at it at a Wildling camp with Ygritte on the way to climb the Wall and was thinking about his guilt and vows. I’m like jesus christ man, just commit already lol
Jenny,
Rhaenyra didn’t have an ulterior motive, she just trusted him enough to take Daemon’s place lol.
Yes exactly! I liked that Rhaenyra made this decisions simply because she wanted to. There was no force, coercion, or manipulation.
My favourite sex scene in GoT universe is Robb and Talisa’s sex scene from The Prince of Winterfell (208).
But this with Rhaenyra and Cole was there as well. Maybe too long, but I like watching two beautiful people enjoy sex.
Power imbalance definitely played a part but I wouldn’t go as far to say that he was raped. He clearly liked it.
I think the problem with this show is that we already saw all of this in GoT but better.
Better battles, better forced marriages, better stage plays, better CGI dragons, better small council scenes,…
It just feels like a solid cover of your favourite song.
Yeah but characters in Succession are much stronger and the show has humour.
I thought it was the best episode since the premiere because it allowed us to invest in the characters. Rhanerya was for the first time likeable, Viserys as the well intentioned but weak king was excellent, Daemon is excellent too as the charismatic cast off brother. I still don’t have anyone especially to root for or dislike intensely (that’s been a common issue through all the episodes so far).
I have the impression Otto won’t be going far and Viserys death is probably only a couple of episodes away (that’s not a spoiler) just feels like the show is foreshadowing it heavily.
Lol,
Jesus, you people are reading in to way too much, both my comment and the Cole-scene.
Yeah, it’s a generalizing statement and was intended as such. Generalizing statements always have the draw of not being absolute truths in every individual case, but that doesn’t make them invalid to make. I’m simply claiming that, in general, men are much less likely to perceive sex as discomforting or threatening. We cannot get pregnant and have a biological instinct to reproduce with as many women as possible since our reproduction potential is virtually unlimited. There is no quantity/quality conflict of interest so to say.
I would argue that most men indeed would want to have sex in this situation, or at least would not have been discomforted the slightest by the idea. Hesitating on whether it’s a good idea or not, is a different question.
In this particular case, we also know (confirmed by showrunners in Inside the Episode) that Cole loves her. His hesitation in this scene clearly comes ONLY from failing his duty, and the consequences that it might bring forth. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t see that, as you are clearly misinterpreting a great scene.
To be clear: It is not the sexual act in itself that produces his hesitation, but the consequences to it. Even if Rhaenyra can be seen as having coerced him into it (which I believe is an exaggerated interpretation) this does not constitute rape or similar even in the eyes of contemporary law. Speaking generally (applicable to pretty much every jurisdiction in the Western world), the lack of “consent” in the sex has to relate to the sexual act and sexual partner itself, not the surrounding circumstances. The consent is only criminally forced if a person who was unwilling to have sex is made to have it – not if someone who wants to have sex is convinced to do so despite fearing the social fallout or similar of said sexual engagement.
E.g. it is not illegal to lie about having a certain amount of money or a particular degree, effectively “tricking” someone to have sex with you when they would not have otherwise. It is also not criminal to convince someone to cheat on their spouse, even though they naturally might feel hesitant too.
Do you all see my point?
/A law student
You and I (plus others) picked up that from early season Dany was on a dark path but there were lots of fans out there who didn’t pick up on it at all that for me was part of the whole backlash over season 8. So in that sense I do think she was whitewashed in some ways but more realistically they were trying to showcase she was treading a fine line between good and evil.
I suspect many here will disagree with you but talking to other friends it’s becoming a popular point of view. Personally I enjoyed this episode way more than the previous two but would readily admit it’s not anywhere near the level of the original show – partially to the time jumps, partially because we are not invested into the characters (very few seem likeable) and partially because the story isn’t as intriguing. Of course we should recognise the show needs time to develop, if we applied the same critic to the first season of GOT I suspect people would be harsher on it.
That’s a controversial opinion, Winds of Winter was way better written than last night’s episode.
Jon Snowed,
I agree she wasnt white washed. i actually thought the show protrayed her as prone to violence and if not for her advisors she would have acted on that more. the one time she was isolated, betrayed, and limited advisors we got we she had been saying since season 2, she will burn cities to the ground to get what she wanted.
She already won the throne when she decided to remodel King’s Landing though, so she already got what she wanted before burning KL.
That’s probably why it didn’t work for me, but I digress. It’s been 4 years. I’ve made peace with it.
Stew,
I don’t know if anyone could have talked her out of burning KL, I don’t think anyone could have convinced her that the people of KL were prisoners of Cersei. In every other city, she was welcomed with open arms, they didn’t do that in Westeros and she couldn’t take it. At the same time, I don’t think she was naturally inclined to think that way. She was hammered by tragedy in S8, it was kind of silly to me, like D&D had to be sooooooo heavy handed to make her decision believable (it wasn’t imo). And like you, I saw signs in S4. I think they just left it a little too late, so the final descent happened too quickly, and if people were still 100% on her side (her actions up to that point were always justifiable) it must have been a shock. I’m convinced that she is going to level Meereen in the books, like a precursor to KL, she has compromised and compromised, and it got her nowhere. She’ll take that with her to Westeros.
She conquered cities with minimal bloodshed, she came up with those plans, she wasn’t talked into mercy there. Her violent side came out when she was handing out punishments. Her mode of justice was always too hard, so perhaps her burning KL was another example of that. It’s all very murky for me, which was always my issue with it.
My sister recently started watching dragons but has never watched thrones.
She decided to also start thrones.
I’ll be curious which first season she prefers.
I guess I was surprised by how much finally seeing Daemon and Rhaenyra get that close bothered me. It apparently doesn’t seem to have bothered anyone else. I don’t take it as a strike against the show, for what it’s worth. Ask me the best thing I think has ever been released on television and I’ll say Band of Brothers, which had a whole lot of extremely unpleasant, even viscerally repulsive scenes. Show the world in all its ugliness, by all means.
Maybe it cuts too close to home? Matt Smith is two years younger than me, and Milly Alcock is a year older than my oldest niece. She’s a champion gymnast and very objectively attractive, but also someone I used to hold when she was a baby, watched Spongebob with her when she was in kindergarten. I’ve helped her with homework. My relationship now is mostly giving life advice and helping her pay college expenses. A sexual relationship with a person like that feels like a disgusting betrayal of family dynamics. Reading about the “queer” Targaryen customs is one thing, but finally seeing it was really gross to me. It’s not just the incest, but the age difference combined with the fact they would have known each other and been at least somewhat close in more wholesome ways as she was still growing up.
It makes Daemon extremely unlikable, with his only real redeeming characteristic being that he’s right about all the threats to the Targaryen family and the throne that Viserys doesn’t want to acknowledge.
It’s a slow burn so far, but an interesting setup. The conflicts all seem reasonable from the perspective of both sides. I get why the Hightowers, and eventually Criston Cole, don’t trust Daemon and Rhaenyra. I get why Rhaenyra isn’t going to concede. There isn’t going to be any clear right or wrong side when the war starts. Everyone has a good argument.
I think this might not be a popular take, but in the War of the Five Kings, I didn’t feel this way at all. Stannis was 100% in the right. I didn’t have too much pain about Robb Stark and Balon Greyjoy wanting to secede, but Renly and Joffrey were very much in the wrong. Renly had likability on his side, but then died very quickly, and Joffrey was so one-note evil that there was no good reason for anyone to be on his side. The entirety of the conflict from the viewer’s point of view seemed to be “well, if Stannis wins, he’ll execute Tyrion, and we like Tyrion.” Sure, but that isn’t much of an argument for why Joffrey should be king.
Rhaenyra will have the law on her side, but the show is setting up the argument for Aegon as much more reasonable. Rhaenyra and Daemon are both wild children not suited to rule, Rhaenyra seems to have no interest in customs and disdain for both commoners and other nobles, wanting to rule solely out of a sense of self-righteousness, and it does seem quite clear, fair or not, that enough people won’t accept her that war is inevitable if she ever sits the throne. They’re setting up Viserys trying to convince her she needs to be on the throne to fulfill prophecy, but it’s nowhere near Stannis’ driving and earnest belief and desire to save the realm, plus the fact that winter apocalypse had already started and he knew about it early on.
Mr Derp,
She didn’t just want the Iron Throne. She wanted to punish the people of King’s Landing for not overthrowing Cersei like the slaves of Mereen did for her. They essentially chose Cersei over her. This is consistent with her past behavior. She had already won Mereen before she crucified 163 masters. She had already defeated the Tarlys before burning Randyll and Dickon to ashes. Violence didn’t necessarily end with her victory.
Young Dragon,
Yea, I already know you thought it was done perfectly and that’s great for you. I have zero interest in debating this at all. You and I have already debated this to death in the past. Let it go.
I’m not the one who brought it up.
Definitely an improvement over last episode.
The final part was thrilling, didn’t see it coming. It’s going to strike back at him but man.. Black Viserys? I Want more!
Viking,
I really enjoyed reading your take on this episode. Thank you.
May I take a chair at the table of those who were thrilled when Viserys finally saw the light about Otto? Finally!! Viserys was manipulated while grieving and needed to find a spine. How long it will last is anyone’s guess.
Daemon is a major dick but Matt Smith is awesome.
LunarHexagon,
I also felt there was dubious consent in this scene. I kind of felt sorry for sir Criston who indeed reminded me of a woman caving in to her boss’ desires.
TormundsWoman,
If Criston were to go to the King and tell of the princess’ attempt to seduce him, he would probably get silenced for good. He’s supposed to be a nobody after all – we have been told so in practically all episodes so far.
The guy from True Blood got in there with the Princess! Finally.
Just rewatched S2 and 3 of GOT and its pretty damn good. I ceased relating it to GURMs books and watched it as it own. The little interactions between characters is top notch. Really enjoyed Ros this time around.
I tend to agree here. The Rings of Power is a far better watch at this point.
Honestly the Princess should have just Ubered.
I don’t like House of the dragon as much as I liked the first 4 seasons of GOT, but I like it enough to want to continue to follow it. I have read Fire & Blood long time ago, but since I found it boring I don’t remember much of it. And I like the show more than I liked the book.
The writers are making Princess Rhaenyra similar to Arya Stark as much as possible. Princess Rhaenyra watched a Play about her family and was called a “Boy” just like Arya. I wonder if Princess Rhaenyra is going to start killing people like Arya.
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