The season seven finale draws near! Many of you will share my state of mind: I want to watch it, but that means Game of Thrones is over for a long time, so I also want to have it forever just out of reach. Touch luck. It’s coming, and the cast is already hyping it up!
Iain Glen, Richard Dormer, Kristofer Hivju and the director of the previous episode, Alan Taylor, sat down with Hollywood Reporter to discuss the finale:
“It was really surreal,” Iain Glen tells Hollywood Reporter. “I think it’s hard for fans to appreciate how dissipated and separated we’ve all been over the course of seven or eight years. There are large numbers of these actors who have never acted together before. We’ve all been part of this thing that’s turned into an extraordinary success, and we’ve met at premieres and we’ve met at read-throughs and we’ll bump into each other in trailers … You pass each other, but to actually be able to be in the same space, to have fun together, to live in the same hotels, to act in the scenes primarily? For me, it felt like it was part of the beginning of the end in a very good way. In a very lovely way.”
Sounds lovely, doesn’t it? Well, that’s one way to look at it. The other is that all this grouping together means “the end is nigh,” as the actor who plays Jorah puts it. “What you do as actors is you say, ‘Fucking hell. Can you believe how this has been?’ You share your delight and how much of a ball the whole gig has been. Sometimes it’s easy to think, ‘Is it just me?’ And then you bump into all of the other actors and we all feel the same. It’s very hard, because we know it’s not going to be there for much longer.”
“I think what everybody imagines, they’re going to get it, and maybe even a little bit more,” teases Richard Dormer, who plays Lord Beric Dondarrion. “It’s the last episode, so things are really ramping up. It’s going to be truly epic.” Kristofer Hivju, who plays Tormund, agrees: “It’s going to be interesting, I can tell you that … Episode seven is maybe the longest one. We’re talking about a feature-length episode.”
Director Alan Taylor also shared his thoughts, though he only directed last week’s episode — the finale is directed by Jeremy Podeswa. Taylor tells Hollywood Reporter that he thought he had the big episode of the season, as it was the penultimate one, but when he read the scripts he realized that wasn’t necessarily the case: “Every episode I started to realize was big. The loot train was huge. The sea battle was huge … What becomes more important is not so much the scale of the action as it is the scale of the story point … I can say the next episode that finishes this short season, the plot point evolves in an even more dramatic way. It takes a huge leap forward. It keeps building.”
For their thoughts on the season as a whole, read the entire interview here.
flippity-floppity-floop!
This might be the most velvety-voiced entry ever.
A lot is riding on the next episode to be great.
I want to be excited for season 8, and I want to have faith D&D will give the show the ending it deserves. “Beyond the Wall” has left me in a more negative head space when it comes to their commitment to finishing this series right. It felt like a fatigued and cynical attempt to give audiences thrills without putting any effort into the storytelling… Like they just wanted to deliver bullet points rather than plot. “Game of Thrones” and Benioff and Weiss are too good for this to happen again.
Fingers crossed they will course correct themselves, because there isn’t much time left, and the last thing anyone wants is for this masterpiece of a show to go out on a whimper, when we should always remember it for the amazing piece of work that it is. I don’t want to see characters like Tyrion and Arya acting irreparably out of character, just for the sake of plot convenience. The characters are why we fell in love with the series in the first place.
But for the first time, I am questioning whether or not they will be able to pull it off.
Take till 2019 and 2020 to make season 8, and do it right.
HelloThere,
For better or for worse, the show is certainly different now than it was before. I don’t think it’s going to magically go back to the way it used to be for season 8. Whatever you’re getting now, you should probably at least prepare for more of the same in season 8 otherwise you’ll probably just set yourself up for disappointment.
Good summary of the article. It fans the flames of expectations! As you say Luka, I want to see the episode but I don’t want the season to end. Especially concerned over the end of characters I’ve grown to care about.
In the full article Dormer says a person should see this on a movie screen! Well, I hope they release a few episodes in IMAX again like they did with The Children and Battle of Castle Black. That would be a nice way to tide us over until season 8. Please, please, please!
I’m a simple woman. I see Iain, Richard, and Kristofer, I click.
Also, Rory and Kristofer got bored off set.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=851209861703639&id=165258783632087
HelloThere,
How is Arya and tyrion not being themselves? Both these characters act like those characters should be. Arya was always more leaned toward Jon instead of Arya, she also has her experience as no one. Everything she did last 2 episodes was because of everything that happened to here the last couple of seasons. And we don’t know what will happen next episode so we don’t know how she will act than. I think after the next episode you will see that Arya was just Arya this season like j should be.
As for tyrion. How was he not himself this season? I saw him as the smart one this season. Only problem was, Jaime knew his brother through and through. But his plan for casterly rock was pretty smart. As for the plan for the wight is also very smart. I don’t think his plan was to convince Cercei of the treat but in fact convince Jaime is the treat and the people of westeros. And at the same time it gave dannereys a time to breathe instead of burning kingslanding to the ground, we all saw the concern of him and varys.
Don’t forget the stuff that happened the last couple of seasons. Nobody is the same as their season 1 counterparts.
I wouldn’t deny that there are some small mistakes made this season, but that they depict characters wrong isn’t the case in my opinion.
Mr Derp,
Episodes 1 to 4 of this season are as strong as the show has ever been. So it’s possible that season 8 can rebound.
HelloThere,
I’m sorry, but you’re going to get your heart broken if you expect Arya or Tyrion to be the same they were in previous seasons. A lot of (terrible) things had happened to these and other characters for them to remain the same. I can understand not liking the effects that those events had on your favorites characters. But not accepting them seems just silly to me (unless you prefer being in denial.) Did you truly expect Arya to become an assassin with a heart of gold? Or Tyrion to be an unbeatable military expert? They and others are broken, scarred people. They cannot go back as they were… It would be silly if they did. They are not out of character. They are precisely what they are supposed to be.
Mr Derp,
Hear hear.
Juri,
It’s the wight hunt plan I had problems with mostly. Which was so ludicrously silly that I couldn’t help but laugh. The military planning I can live with completely
And with arya. I absolutely understand what they are trying to go fOr, and I think it’s mostly plausible but not particularly executed effectively 😉
HelloThere,
I agree but I think there’s not much hope left. It is what it is. The show likely won’t stay true to itself to the very end.
It’s clearly veered more into fan service and bombastic action sequences, giving a lot of viewers exactly what they asked for – which isn’t necessarily quality or art.
You could easily argue that the show traded in its artistic value for popularity and profit. It certainly wouldn’t be the first to have done it. And it could also be that D&D are just uninspired by the trite fantasy finale and are eager to move on, which is why a lot of this season feels rushed.
Will be interesting to see if the books suffer from the same faults.
Well, this interview is going to make some viewers go into a panic attack of excitement.
I must say that I thought episode 6 was quite important in terms of story development.
1. Jon finally accepts his resurrection and purpose in life.
2. Danerys transforms from essentially a conqueror with a good heart to a true hero who is willing to sacrifice everything she holds dear for things outside of herself, and forges an alliance of equals with the KITN.
3. The existential threat of the NK and the WW became much more real with the demonstration that the NK can bring down dragons BY HIMSELF and with the entry of the ice dragon (before I am sure there were many who thought, all we have to do is get the three dragons in the game and than the army of the dead will be bbq).
4. The reason why the Night King has to die was made explicit (we always knew it but the narrative reasons was explained).
I loved the episode on many levels, although I get why there were those (particularly book readers and those who loved the pacing/intrigue of seasons 1-4) that were frustrated. The show has moved into the true epic fantasy part of its narrative, and also is not scaffolded by the rich material from GRRM that could have made the show even deeper.
For me, I am taking it in, loving it, and am not looking forward to the “Long Night” that commences Monday.
I agree. Don’t worry too much about ep6, it’s had it’s moments but it’s clear it was simply meant to get things moving.
EP7 is gearing up to be awesome as hell and I’m excited. Keep in mind, going into S8, THAT is the season D&D have planned for all this time, for years. No more buying time, rushing, no more build up or fumbled planning. That is going to be THE season.
Every other season post books has had them have to quickly come up with things in the span of 2 months in the writing board, this is going be them going back to ground they already know is there, material made by GRRM in his prime years. 🙂
HelloThere,
How would you purpose how they will let westeros know about the treat they are going to face? Even the measters at the citadel don’t believe the treat is real, we all saw how they reacted toward Sam. If they don’t believe it when somebody like Sam tells them about it, how will they convinced the people of westeros to act now? They won’t. Tyrions plan was the only way that works, without that they will just keep on fighting each other.
Kosten,
There’s a part of me that agrees with you, but at the same time… I believe d and d know the ending and have more direction from grrm.. part the reason the latter half of this season is suffering is because they are still in this setup phase.. and they are rushing it.
Maybe once they get to the real ending they’ve been building up to for years, things will click back into place and we won’t see these slapped together plot points like the wight hunt
Bearded Onion,
This is how I feel things will most likely go. And hope they go:. Fingers crossed
Pigeon,
They look like 2 very fun guys to hang out with
HelloThere,
Don’t worry. E7 will be really good.
mau,
I hope so. And believe so. But in the wait between season 7 and 8 there will be a lot of cynical think pieces -_-
David A,
100% with you. If they had the books it would probably be a lot better (and longer) but they don’t have them.
And for me the dannereys change was very important. I didn’t like her the last 3 seasons. She became very arrogant. But after episode 6 I love her again. She knows now what’s more important. She found her gentle heart again. And that a dragon die was also very important. Because they need the dragons to defeat the wight army, but they can’t use them if there’s a white Walker nearby. Did makes the long night so much more interesting and harder. Now they can’t just use the dragons and win easily. There were more important scenes. Jorah redeems himself. We saw a change in the hound and tormund relation. We saw thoros and begin redeem themselves for what they that to gendry. And more.
HelloThere,
I think that the wight hunt plan makes sense, but that scene at Dragonstone in E5 was written almost like an outline, so the set-up was bad.
They needed longer scene where they would discuss all their options and agree that this was the only way to go. And they focused too much on Cersei in that scene. If they were speaking about the South everything would make much more sense.
The set-up was bad, that’s why the pay off didn’t work that well.
mau,
I agree. The wight hunt would’ve been slightly better if they had always planned on it being a showcase to all the lords of the south. The fact that they singled out Cersei was the problem
HelloThere,
Maybe, but E7 will really end the season on a strong point. Not that strong as TWOW last year, but it will be really good.
Kevin1989,
Yes, E6 had problems in motivations and logistics that could have been avoided but it was very important set-up for the rest of the show.
David A,
I liked your four-point summary. The only question. I have is about #4: I’m not sure the “reason why the NIght King has to die was made explicit.” I know that Beric and Jon were suggesting that if you zap a White Walker it deactivates all the dead people he’s reanimated; and (I guess?) they’re thinking if you vanquish the NK the subordinate WWs will dissolve.
Is it that simple ? A targeted assassination of NK, and game over ? I hope not: then GoT will be a retread of Independence Day, Edge of Tomorrow, ST:TNG (Enterprise vs Borg Queen), Starship Troopers, and a bunch of other sci-fi flicks and shows.
And im wondering why people think they are rushing things. We all read where book 5 ended. We all know that season 6 almost covered all of the WoW plotline. Maybe a small part of season 7 will be in WoW. Sam part and maybe dannereys arrival in westeros. Everything else will be DoS. That means that they made DoS will be 13 episodes. With very long episodes that we can compare (in minutes) to 16/20 episodes in the first couple of seasons if the rumors are true that season 8 will have episodes the size of 90/120 minutes long.
The season that was rushed was season 5. 2 books in one season instead of 1 book in season 7 and 8.
Taking time will not increase the chances of doing it “right.” The ending is as good as it is going to be, and it has been for a while: probably 20+ years at this point. The possible endings are heavily restricted at this point.
The ending is going to disappoint a lot of fans. Why? Because there are so many different (and completely conflicting) endings that fans want. Moreover, many fans are rooting for “their” ending, and will be disappointed that they did not get it right. Keep in mind: if it’s a really good ending or if it’s a really bad ending (and Bill Clinton probably was president when GRRM made the critical choices leading to that), then we will have the same outcome: hordes of disappointed fans.
Not necessarily: the quality of the books as literature has deteriorated hugely since the first three. Moreover, a lot of that has to do with the fact that GRRM has been taking his time. There is an old rule of thumb in writing: anything that you wrote more than six months ago was written by a different person. It’s probably not a coincidence that the quality of the books tumbled when GRRM began taking much too much time: his probable attempts to “perfect” things resulted in heavy over-writing, too many “hiccups” in plotlines and storylines, etc.
GRRM himself claims to have had the destination in mind since the outset. As he’s gotten further and further into the series, he has constrained more and more the way in which he can present it. It’s not going to get any better by taking time. Moreover, what he eventually writes will be no more useful for B&W than the general summary that he gave them. After all, even if GRRM produces a Booker-worthy final novel, then it is still true that a Booker-worthy novel is an awful script! B&W need the general ending, and they need to visualize how to present that on screen. They probably are best off not overthinking it: the first “jam sessions” probably are going to produce 95% of what they need.
Was there an expectation that the climax of the show (and the books) was going to be just a lot more talk and political maneuvering? I understand that some prefer that kind of thing, but GoT/ASoIaF is fantasy-scifi. D&D building up action that involves dragons, giants, wight bears (and/or ice spiders), an army of dead and supernatural blue freaks isn’t something that’s just going to be on the show. It’s going to be a big part of the finish for the books as well, if we ever get them.
George can write and write and write all he wants, but when it comes to an adaptation, much of it would be unnecessary or even wanted to be seen in the show. George himself seems to be overextending the book series by broadening the scope so much that many people lost quite a bit of enjoyment with the last couple. Time and again we see popular shows overextend and simply fade away. It’s difficult to get it just right. While certain elements may seem rushed, taking too much time could be seen as damaging and less enjoyable as well.
The other problem is, where is the internal conflict? Jon & Daenerys have to hate what they do in the end nearly as much as they hate the alternative(s). Given that SoI&F is a very different (overarching) story than the ones that the tales you list were trying to tell, it really needs a very different type of ending.
Kevin1989,
…and the most important lesson of all:
Stop whinging!
(Sorry. I’d never heard that word before in my life until Sandor used it to tell Gendry to stop complaining. Since then, I’ve read that word at least ten times a day.)
Clob,
But I really think that this season gave room for characters.
Dany and Tyrion had their longest scene ever in E6 and they just talked for 6 minutes and it was great. Sansa and Arya had a very long talk as well. 5-6 minutes. Sansa and Jon this season. Tyrion and Jon. Dany and Jon. All those people beyond the Wall.
Olenna and Jaime. Sam in Oldtown.
SciFi & Fantasy typically tell very different types of stories. In SciFi, there usually is a ton of exposition and politicking at the climax. (SciFi stories frequently focus on what it means to be human, and that requires a lot of that sort of thing.) Now, most fantasy is completely plot-driven, with the tales lacking true protagonists. However, SoI&F is quite different from those: there are honest to Lit101 protagonists in this tale. The stories are about how they come to terms with themselves in damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-do-not scenarios. GRRM himself has stressed this over the decades, and the show has heavily stressed having the main characters show strong internal conflict.
Given all of that, the ending really has to give us the biggest damned-if-you-do-or-do-not of them all.
Thanks for sharing! This is hysterical. Gotta love them!
mau,
That’s true. But that wasn’t the fault of episode 6 itself. But the way it handled before. Personally I think they should have handled a couple of things differently in episode 5. If the minutes didn’t count they should have made 5 longer. A little bit more preparation. I’m very happy the way season 7 was handed to us. But even I think that a 8 episode season would have been better than 7. Beyond the wall should have been de 7th episode. The 6th should have been about the preparation for beyond the wall and winterfell. There should have been more breathing between two big battle episodes.
And about the southern lords, they all are afraid of cercei. So convincing them doesn’t matter.
It never ceases to amaze me how determined some people are not to like, or to find fault in the show. A bad GOT episode is better than 90% of the television ever made. I’ve read all the books multiple times and watched all the episodes multiple times but the incessant negativity about the show, primarily from book readers, is just tiring, since the show is now widely regarded as one of the better ones. If the show disappoints you so much and causes you so much consternation just quit watching, go give GRRM a BJ and die gagging on his @#$%, but do yourselves and everyone else a favor and just be done with it.
HelloThere,
I think Arya is acting like the waif to make Sansa stronger just like the waif and Jaqen H’ghar did for Arya when she learned the skills of a Faceless Man.
The result of the Arya and Sansa conversations could help Sansa defeat the master con Littlefinger…
I hope In The Dragon and the Wolf that Tyrion will finally say the words that he said in the very first season 7 in-production teaser…
“Welcome Home My Queen”
I’m right there with ya!
Oh BS. This is a story of dragons and zombies and lords of light with human heroes and villains mixed in. The story has always been leading to an endgame of bigger battles featuring main characters and ever increasing fantasy elements.
The fact that some fans have been looking forward to having favorite characters finally meet and interact does NOT mean it is ‘fan service’ when it actually happens. The fact that some fans have been looking forward to finally seeing the dragons in action beyond the wall does NOT mean it is ‘fan service’ when it actually happens.
Kevin1989,
Well if you count duration of this season it is like 8 episodes of normal seasons.
I think they needed 5-10 more minutes on that scene, not entire episode.
Wimsey,
Personally I loved book 4 and 5. 5 is my favorite after 3. My least favorite book was the second. But still I found in an amazing book. Personally I don’t understand the hate for those 2 books.
Sometimes I think too that D & D are overthinking it. Sometimes less is more.
It’s not that I’m not with you guys that things could have been better. But for me the fault wasn’t with episode 6 itself but with 5. Can’t blame 6 for 5 in my opinion.
And true about the ending. It should be an ending that they must choose between two bad things. And choose the lesser bad. I have many ideas but are probably bad endings.
I’ve enjoyed season 7 and think it’s been a lot of fun. Spoils of War is one of the best episodes of the show ever and the Queen’s Justice was a damn good episode too. This season HAS been pumping out quality material. And if episode 7 is as good as I’ve heard it’ll be then the season will end right.
There will always be those people that watch the show with the intent to vehemently criticize anything D&D touch. People really have this notion that GRRM is some writing God and that he can’t be matched. There’s a real chance that WOW and ADOS could be subpar. Obviously I hope they’re great but you never know.
I think it’s true that when you kill a white walker all the zombies they resurrected will die as well, but I’m not sure that if you kill the NK all the WWs do. Remember, wights are controlled creatures, so it makes sense that when you kill someone who is essentially moving them, they would just return to unmoving bones. But, not sure if this is confirmed or not, I think it’s implied that the WWs all have a mind of their own and are actually alive, and never have been dead. They are all former humans who were unfortunate to get touched by the NK while they were ALIVE. And even in the case they make it so that everyone dies once the NK does, it would still be interesting because the NK is practically unkillable because we still don’t know how it can be done, apart from fan speculations that the only way to kill him would be to remove the dragonglass from his chest, which is again, going to be near impossible, therefore providing a lot of screen time for our heroes to kill WWs and their soldiers before someone actually manages to kill the NK, if at all.
Ten Bears,
So true, sometimes I think that some things could have handled better, but I have the utterly respect for D&D. They don’t have an easy job with this story. It’s not only very complex storywise but also visualwise. It cost a lot.
mau,
True but this problem is in the show since season 2. Even then some things were rushed and some things were stretched to much. What I like about season 7 is that if a character isn’t important you won’t see them for half a season. Like the hound and Co we missed them in season 2 to 4 because they weren’t needed.
I would have loved a couple of scenes more between loot train battle and beyond the wall. A scene between Jon and theon. A scene were Jon was looking at northern man that were excavating the dragonglass and making it into a dagger that he would take. A scene that he has doubt, that could have handled with Tyrion. Or maybe dannereys herself the moment tyrion was in kl.
I wonder if once the Night King dies, everything magic-related will die as well. I have no reason to think this at all, but it would tie in with the “bittersweet” scenario. Kill the Night King, but dragons would die, Jon Snow and anyone else resurrected would die, etc…
Just spit-ballin here, don’t mind me 🙂 Enjoy tearing it to pieces
HelloThere,
You need stronger glasses because I saw a great strong season. All the characters were the same even if at times they did the wrong things which is u fair to the writters because GRRM made our characters go through many mistakes and bad decision making. Many died for it.
Arya was still Arya so on and so forth.
It’s funny many just like to see a few cracks like Gendry running to easwatch, Ravens to Dragon Stone, Dragon to wall and I’m over here enjoying the push and pull conversations Tyrion had with Dany talking about a short term game vs a long game and how to break the wheel. But nooooo some people just rather focused on “Emails”
Pigeon,
Thanks for sharing! The big revelation of episode 6 was this comical duo!
Wow. As has been stated the characters are exactly who they are supposed to be. Your love affair with seasons 1 to 4 is you living in the past literally and narratively.
After rewatching episode 6 a second time even after reading all of the complaing and moaning I actually enjoyed it much more than on first viewing. Even in the first four seasons we are asked to suspend disbelief more than once. George Martin has said that at the end of the day this is a story about Jon and Dany. They are the end game. Everything is building up to the war against the White Walkers and things must inevitably be simplified towards that end. Also each episode is a part of a much larger narrative. It’s very easy for you to go back and look at the first four seasons as a singular chunk and then nitpick and criticize individual episodes in season 7 without taking them in the context of the whole.
Whether you like it or not in order to adequately tell this story they have to have bigger set-pieces and more action because that is what is happening in the actual story. Dan and Dave aren’t just saying let’s blow things up and have Crazy Action sequences because we want to turn the story into Transformers. If that’s how you are taking this then you are completely out of touch with the overall Arc of the entire story. And in order to put on screen what is required to tell the story it requires more production and more money and more time to shoot the scenes effectively. In the first few seasons we didn’t need to see the battle where Tyrion and his band of stormcrows literally fights in a pitched battle. We didn’t need to see Rob and his men actually fighting and winning battles. First of all they did not have the budget in those earliest Seasons to be able to show them but it also wasn’t necessary from a narrative point of view. At this point in the story not only do they have the budget for it but with the dragons etc it has become more important to show it.
Yes Dan and Dave do not have 5000 pages of dialogue that they can refer to but make no mistake they did not simply plagiarize George Martin word for word and every single scene during the first four seasons. They still took artistic and narrative liberties and even changed the dialogue in some cases.
The bottom line is the sky is not falling and season 7 is not some massive disappointment. The writing has been good and understandably I can get why people feel like it has moved faster than they would like but at this point in the story they have to get to the end game and they just don’t have the time or money to drag it out the way that some people want.
We are reaching the climax of the series and in any good story that’s basically what happens. You have a prologue or introduction that moves into exposition and then you have development and about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through you have your big climax and then the last third or quarter you have your resolution.
I kind of feel like the Hound/Rory would make any pairing into comedy gold. Lol.
Hmm, if Dorner is making comments about Episode 7, does it mean he’s IN Episode 7? Where would he show up, Winterfell?
These strawman arguments are getting lame. If WOW and ADOS is sub-par (as was Dance), then it will get criticize; if Ep. 6 is bad, it should get criticize too. If it’s bad writing, it’s bad writing; it doesn’t matter what genre it is.
This season has been topsy-turvy like no other. You go from one of the best eps (barring Arya-Sansa scenes), episode 4, to one of the worst, ep 6. You get whiplash just watching altogether.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Who said I’m living in the past…
I think the best work GOT has done have been in seasons 5-7 (5×8,6×9,6×10,7×4)…
BobDole,
I’m sure you’ve heard of the concept of “opinions” right? Please tell me you have.
Pigeon,
Cool, “Yellow Bird” is one of my favorite songs. No offense meant to Rory, but here’s my favorite version: 😉
Exactly. Which is why putting words in other people’s mouth is lame, hence the strawman. Saying people who criticize the show are book lovers who always worship GURM.
James Rivers,
I think he’s staying at The Wall, specifically Eastwatch, but Im not sure.
Pigeon,
I saw that and it made my day! Love those guys. 😀
Catspaw Assassin,
Wow. Pretty good.
Kevin1989,
The main problem with episode 5 Eastwatch is the writing of Dave Hill….
In Eastwatch Dave Hill completely ignored key scenes in the spoils in of war like they never happened. Drogon getting hit with huge arrow and Tyrion wondering if Jamie survived his attack on Daenerys… and if Tyrion and Davos arrived at Kings Landing at night… it would have been more believable.
I hope Dave Hill does better job writing the first episode of season 8 than he did writing Eastwatch and I hope he pays close attention to what happens in The Dragon and the Wolf.
Clearly I misread what you said. For some reason I read season 1-4. I stand by everything else I said however, generally speaking. Its about context in the totality of the series, not each episode individually.
BobDole,
It appears you completely missed the point of my post. I stated that there will always be that portion of the fanbase that will always be vehemently against D&D no matter what. And that’s true. Take a quick browse through YouTube, specifically the preview for episode 7, and see all of the vitriol being spilled. I never stated that ALL book lovers “worshipped” GRRM writing above all. I don’t even know why you brought up the aspect of worship anyways. It’s not about worship to the books. It’s about negligence to indifference when judging both.
Agree, I never read the books. Last weeks episode was the worst GoT episode for me and I consider myself a rabid fan. We usually watch the last episode a couple of times during the week. I have no desire to do it this time around. Huge kudos to the CGI department by saving this episode from being complete rubbish. I know we are in the endgame, so save your comments. Seems like D & D want to get this over with in a hurry.
Newbietothegame,
Could not disagree more.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Same lol
Newbietothegame,
With respect, we must be watching different shows. Episode 6 melted my face off. How in God’s holy name someone could call that the worst episode of the entire series… it’s truly baffling to me. A freaking fully grown dragon was brought down north of the Wall by the leader of an undead zombie army. Are some of us too jaded to even appreciate the holy-fucking-shit nature of what is now happening? All of the build-up has led to these confrontations and they are nailing them better than the biggest Hollywood blockbusters. The show is epic as fuck. It didn’t get that way by accident. D&D are to be commended along with all the talented artists in front and behind the camera who are making the fantasy real.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Edward,
All good, I am still expecting a bombastic season finale. The wine is already chilling and it is only Friday.
Sunfyre,
I don’t agree with either one of them but I presume they’re mainly referencing the fallacies in the timeline and the stretching of logic. And while I do think the timeline was very confusing, it in no way subtracted from my overall enjoyment. It was a good episode. To name it the worst of the series just because of some slight lapses of logic is polarizing to me.
Newbietothegame,
Well I hope you enjoy episode 7. Looks to be a doozy in a good way. Cheers.
I agree. Upon a second watching I found the timing between events to be less jarring and Alan Taylor really did a good job of making it seem like they were out on that island for quite some time. I understand they could have done things a little bit differently that would have enabled Daenerys to fly out there sooner if she had had some kind of a vision from Bran or even if she felt like they were going to just need the help etc but they really did do a very good job of pacing in the context of the script. The dialogue was really good I thought and of course visually it was absolutely stunning.
Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
Totally agree. I mean, it took me my third watch to REALLY come to terms with everything. This episode is definitely one you need to review a second time in order to really sense the nuance of what’s happening. Taylor did a decent job in making those lapses of logic not as horrendous as they could have been. And let’s be real, the size of Westeros in general is pretty unrealistic so the teleportation is just not that big of an issue to me.
Lastly, the dialogue was really great. The “suicide squad” had awesome banter with each other that managed to highlight some of the lesser known lore of the series. I think it was expertly concocted.
Kevin1989,
Ah ha. Now I get why after Jon said we need Dany Beric pointed at the NK and said no they just need to take him out. It was a clue to viewers that the long awaited dragons to Westeros wiping them all out is not going to be that easy. This is backed up when Dany does arrive but dragon gets killed. Jon now realizes, or should, that he is the one that must take on the NK. I wonder how he does this and who else provides back up or even fight along side Jon? Bran will be involved somehow remotely.
ugashep,
We all love the show. That’s why we’re here. That’s why we discuss the shit out of it. And when you talk about all details small and large there will be some criticism, and that’s because nothing subjective is ever perfect to all people all the time. But even when we complain about some things we still enjoy talking about this show. So what does that tell ya?
I don’t watch this show because it’s an interesting political drama despite it being a fantasy. I watch it because it’s fantasy which also has interesting political drama in it.
I guess, that’s the reason the change in tone towards a more traditional fantasy hasn’t really registered with me.
Beric and Jorah: “Hey, let’s just kill the Night King and then the war will be over.”
Jon: “You don’t understand.”
Beric and Jorah: ” Oh right! Well that was such a stupid idea – thanks for explaining Jon..”
ygritte,
I used to think that too, now I sometimes wonder. It seems some people come only to complain.
People complaining about the show doing fan service but at the same time complaining about the Arya Sansa fued because its not the reunion they wanted.
Like it or not this is who Arya is, she’s vengeful and she’ll do anything to anyone who tries hurting her family and that what she thinks Sansa is doing. Arya hasn’t matured in the way people think she did imo.
Edward,
I still don’t get the problem with the timeline. I already stated it somewhere else. I got the information about the size from eastwatch to dragstone is about 2400km. Jon and Co aren’t out for a whole day with a storm. We can assume that gendry would run for a couple of hours. Ravens fly in westerns with a speed about 100km per hour. Source is multiple calculations from book information. Thats a day with stops maybe 30 hours. Dragons fly with a speed of 320km per hour. That’s 7.5 hours with stops maybe 9 Max. 30+9+ couple of hours from gendry is shorter than 2 days. We can assume that’s the time they waited. (And maybe bran intervened and he send the Raven the moment Jon reaches east watch he probably send benjen to jon).
For me episode 6 had amazing dialog. Amazing world building. I’m not really a big fan of action except the way got and lotr portraits it’s. And I liked the way they did that in episode 6. It was stunning. I liked the twists. There were 2 times this season when my heartbeat was racing and that was Jaime marching towards dannreys and the moment tormund was dragging under water.
People needs to stop complaining about every small thing and just enjoy the show. We forget that D&D needs to write the episodes really fast. 4/6 weeks for the whole show that means less than a week per episode. I don’t think we can do better jobs in the timeframe they got. And second we all know from the past that something’s look as a big mistake but could be in fact something clever from later on. Maybe bran intervened. Maybe the first scene of episode 7 varys receives a second letter from eastwatch the one that gendry sends.
Kevin1989,
I’ve seen so many variations on “I didn’t like Dany when she was arrogantly freeing slaves” that I’ve lost count. Baffling.
Violator,
It’s just 1 episode. It was still mostly about human interaction. And it’s still political. It was a political choice why they did the hunt. Even tyrion pointed out a very big political point in episode 6. The endgame will be establishing a democracy. Fantasy element was also in hardhome. (I prefer that episode except that this episode has the hound)
And about Jon’s statement. I think there’s more about the NK. What if he can’t be killed by dragonglass? What if Jon knows his endgame, maybe it’s not just killing everything. What if another white Walker will takes it place.
Ahmed,
So true people want character building but at the same time they don’t want their characters to change. And at the same time we don’t really know what’s happening with Arya until the finale. I could be a “dannereys sold her dragon to the astapori” all over again. We think that this is happening and an episode later it’s the opposite.
Gigoran Monk,
I didn’t hate her than. I loved her than. I hate here when she nailed the masters on the crosses. And later found out that almost 40% did want to end slavery. Even barristan let her know that that action was an action her father would have done, but that it was wrong. I hated it when she fed someone to her dragons even if it was clear he was innocent. Just to send a message. I hated her when she was arrogant at the beginning of the season to varys and Jon. When at that moment and still now she doesn’t mean shit to the people they don’t know here, only the terror of her father. She wants to sit on the iron throne because it’s her birthright. Jon wants to be king because he has to. See the difference. In episode 6 she changed back to her former self. We can all hope that that will stay that way, even when she found out Jon is the true king of the seven kingdoms. But she will probably retaliate.
And second isn’t it strange that grrm told their publisher that westerns will face 3 evils: the war of 5 kings. The arrival of dannereys and the last the invasion to the north.
He also said in many interviews that good is not always good in the end. Look a Hitler he said. He started out good and started with good intentions that ended in something horrible.
And don’t forget the sentence of stamina: the good doesn’t wipe out the bad.
And why I hated Danny in the last seasons is because they made a contrast with Jon. Jon is the most selfless person in the whole show. Not counting side characters as hodor. Jon will never do the easy thing if it means the hard thing is needed for his people. Dannerys wants to be queen. Jon needs to be king even if it destroys him internal.
If the Night King is as powerful as the show implies, then he has to know that literally every person he needs to defeat is going to be in the Dragon Pit. He would be a fool to ignore the opportunity this episode provides him.
I don’t trust the people behind the show to do that. I am happy to be wrong, though.
If I were the showrunners, I’d pull a huge plot twist to top the Red Wedding: NK flies down, takes most of them out, and someone (Jaime? Qyburn?) lights the wildfire up, taking him out, too. End of series.
David A,
I loved what you wrote and must say I agree with you breakdown of the episode. I do believe the Night King was explained and was so relieved. I also agree about Dany, Jon and looking towards the Long Night. Our surviving characters lives have changed so much that there is little that remains of the people who started out in Season 1. I have read the books and watched the show. I have accepted the passage of time as we are not aware of how much time has actually gone by before someone “appears” far from where they began. You get that in so many tv shows and even movies and often there are “parts” of anything we watch we won’t like, but all in all, I’m really happy with what has been done with GOT. Parts of both the books (ADWD comes to mind) and the show I haven’t particularly liked, but overall they are both GREAT entertainment and after all, that’s all tv, movies and books really are…..
Kevin1989,
Yeah, D&D don’t have that much time write out the scripts for the episodes. It’s not as if they have the years and the ability to constantly rewrite that Martin has with the creation of the books. And that is very much a huge difference between how both mediums are produced. Either way I respect how they’re trying to finish someone else’s material regardless of the fallacies and duds along the way.
I agree about the first part, but Arya is about justice, not pure vengeance. She would never hurt Sansa. She can detect lies and knows Sansa still wants power but won’t betray Jon. And Arya and especially Sansa knows Littlefinger is a menace. As it turns out, both of them are ‘playing’ Littlefinger, almost certainly together. Arya, being an experienced actress, is playing Bad Cop to Sansa’s Good Cop. Besides, if Sansa weren’t fairly sincere and normal-acting, LF would detect that. Their aggro and threats are mostly said with open doors and outside, so easily eavesdropped on. But she gave the dagger to Sansa silently as a signal of trust for certain, and maybe that it’s time for Sansa to act. Which no doubt she will in episode 7. It has to Sansa’s action because she controls Winterfell. Arya will play along, of course.
Absolutely. The NK and his WWs and wights (and yes, I do think he was setting them a ‘trap for a dragon’) were close by the Wall, only three hours or so walk from it, and of course the action with the polar-bear-wight would take time. Gendry ran back faster than the walk, the raven flew overnight, Dany set off in the morning in Dragonstone, at a time that would still be before dawn north of the wall. Thoros died in the cold, long night.
Kit Harington commented on the daylight length when they were filming in Iceland – one has to presume, likewise, that winter nights are long, days short and getting shorter, the further north you are in Planetos.
This ep really has to be watched several times. Think I may re-watch tonight – or maybe I’ll go back to 0701 to see the whole season before the finale on Sunday night/Monday morning.
Also, I think that, as somebody pointed out, this is only a part of the NK’s forces, close by Eastwatch for his own reasons. The ‘main force’ may not be as close yet.
True, but… why not have had Thoros sacrifice himself to get R’hllor to provide some magic/power that could clearly keep the good guys going? E.g., a big bonfire or a ring of magical fire around the campers or something like that. The R’hllor gun has been hung multiple times, and although we have not seen exactly that sort of magic, at this point it would be like taking the gun off of the wall and putting a silencer on it.
I realize that it’s basically nitpicking – it would not have altered this particular show’s contribution to the story – but they usually have been better about this sort of thing. Also, it would have been good to give us another taste of R’hllor’s powers: unless, of course, this is not going to be relevant in the end. After all, a hung gun should be rehung once in a while.
What I find to be the most perplexing criticism is that the notion of the mission was in itself stupid. However: it was completely clear by now that almost nobody is buying these stories about what is happening north of the Wall. Jon is basically like that guy who keeps writing blogs about Bigfoot, but without even the out-of-focus photographs!
Still, I do not think that Cersei is going to buy it: she’s going to think that the Sasquatch is a man in a monkey suit.
We never are told that any of them wanted to end slavery, and there is zero evidence of any sort of abolitionist movement there prior to Daenerys’ arrival. The closest thing that we are told that some of the Meereenese nobility supposedly argued against crucifying slaves. And, to be honest, I took that with a huge grain of salt: my bet is that the “arguing” was more along the lines of unspoken discomfort with the idea, or quite objections expressed to confidantes.
Otherwise, it was all the old “Slavery is the natural order of things” bs….
Wimsey,
Hizdar stated to dannereys that many masters wanted to end slavery, but that they voted for it but the ones that wanted slavery won the votes. I’m not saying that the masters didn’t deserve to die.but she should have give them a merciful dead. If you want to stop injustice you need to change the method. We even see it in our time that the most civilized countries are merciful to murderers serial killers rapist etc. If we start torturing them we aren’t any way better.
I hope you see the point I’m making. But I think this is a D&D mistake. Show danny doesn’t see the mistakes she makes, she think she’s the one that’s 100% just, book dannereys is much better. She even stated in the books that she’s becoming a monster and that she needs to change.
I don’t know if you ever watched sons of anarchy. Just finished the 6th season. But I find many similarities between dannereys and jax from that show. Both started as the perfect innocent person with a good heart that’s going to change the system. And both of them changed because they did terrible things to change that system. The only different is that jax feels terrible what he did even if it was just, he feels guilty. Dannereys doesn’t feel guilty but she should.
game of throne theories
1. Arya will marry Sweetrobin because robin arryn wants to step up.
2. Sansa will marry Tully to have access to Tully Tower and Trident.
3. Daenerys will go to Harrenhal.
4. Bran will died after white Walker wall passage
Kevin1989,
I agree. It should have been 8 episodes. Than episode 6 didnt would have this feeling of been ‘rushed’ that some people felt.
Kevin1989,
The thing is that..Dany and Jon have beautiful parallels, but their journeys are very different ones. And i’m a fan of Dany’s journey since the start.
Jon grew up in the North, where trust is a bedrock to any alliance. He grew up a bastard, but he also grew up surrounded by family, a family that didn’t always treat him like an equal, sure, but still people he felt safe around. As a result, he grew into a man who finds it expedient to assume the best of people, at least until they prove otherwise. This is a good skill to have if you’re a peacemaker at heart, but sometimes that blind trust can backfire spectacularly on him, as it did with Allister Thorn.
Dany, on the other hand, never really had a true “home.” She grew up in the East, where trust isn’t a virtue so much as it is a liability. As a child she was constantly shuffled from hiding spot to hiding spot, never staying long enough to grow any attachments to any place or anyone. Her only family was her brother, who molested and bullied her, and then sold her to some warlord. All the people she trusted early in her career: the Lhazareen witch who cursed her womb, that merchant king in Qarth who had all her handmaids butchered, even Jorah Mormont, who turned out to be a spy, all of them either betrayed her or used her in some way. The lesson she quickly learned was that if you take people at their word, prepare to take their knife in your back as well. Nothing wrong with Dany being a fucking badass who’s confident (if not arrogant sometimes) about herself and her rule.
that’s why it was so important Dany’s entire arc in Mereen. Some people still like to say that Mereen’s arc was too long and you know what? Wrong. Dany learned a lot in Mereen. Not only to free the slaves but also to show that it’s not easy to rule.
Sometimes that silent strength and dignified queen act works well, but really it’s mostly just a guardedness she puts up in order not to get hurt because underneath it all Dany feels very lonely. She’s careful not to come across as weak or vulnerable. That’s why this season is so important for her.
She’s got traumatized and lost one of her dragons, and pretty much sees herself in a completely new territory with Jon. She always does what’s she thinks in her heart is the right thing to do. She knew that going there with her dragons would be a very dangerous thing, but she puts herself and her dragons at risk to help them and save them.
That’s why seaosn 7 is so special, especially for Dany’s arc.
Ahmed,
The winterfell plot with Arya and Sansa this season has to be one of the most boring and annoying plots the show ever had, right there with the Dorne plot in season 5.
Arya is one of my favorites, and she has so much more potential than to be stuck all season with annoying sansa in this creep political drama with LF. Arya deserved better.
“fan” ? None of that makes any sense 😛
“Tully Tower” is not a thing. The Trident is a river. House Tully is already relation so Sansa doesn’t need to marry into it, just as House Arryn is. What purpose would Daenerys have in going to a ruined castle such as Harrenhal when she already has Dragonstone?
Thi Targaryen,
True, I always loved her Mereen storyline. And I didn’t find it too long. As you said was a very important journey and lessons had to be learned. But sometimes I felt the show didn’t give the Dannereys story in mereen the proper scenes and feelings. Dannereys in the books is less arrogant and more selfreflecting than the show counterpart. In the books she listens more to her advisers. She feels more natural in the books because of that. Sometimes in the show it’s more a badass dannereys who defeats everything that comes in her way. In the show she nailed the masters and she felt righteous. In the books she was very conflicted after that. If they would have added a scene where she showed that she had the feeling she made a mistake it would have made her character more rich than it was now in the show.
Question: is there a way to add a picture?
Kevin1989,
To truly understand Dany you have to to understand her entire journey. Dany never really had a true “home.” She grew up in the East, where trust isn’t a virtue so much as it is a liability. As a child she was constantly shuffled from hiding spot to hiding spot, never staying long enough to grow any attachments to any place or anyone. Her only family was her brother, who molested and bullied her, and then sold her to some warlord. All the people she trusted early in her career: the Lhazareen witch who cursed her womb, that merchant king in Qarth who had all her handmaids butchered, even Jorah Mormont, who turned out to be a spy, all of them either betrayed her or used her in some way. The lesson she quickly learned was that if you take people at their word, prepare to take their knife in your back as well. Nothing wrong with Dany being a fucking badass who’s confident (if not arrogant sometimes) about herself and her rule.
that’s why it was so important Dany’s entire arc in Mereen. Some people still like to say that Mereen’s arc was too long and you know what? Wrong. Dany learned a lot in Mereen. Not only to free the slaves but also to show that it’s not easy to rule.
Sometimes that silent strength and dignified queen act works well, but really it’s mostly just a guardedness she puts up in order not to get hurt because underneath it all Dany feels very lonely. She’s careful not to come across as weak or vulnerable. That’s why this season is so important for her.
She’s got traumatized and lost one of her dragons, and pretty much sees herself in a completely new territory with Jon. She always does what’s she thinks in her heart is the right thing to do. She knew that going there with her dragons would be a very dangerous thing, but she puts herself and her dragons at risk to help them and save them.
That’s why seaosn 7 is so special, especially for Dany’s arc.
let me just correct you a moment: It’s Daenerys. Not Dannereys . lol. Her arc in Mereen was crucial to Dany’s storyline. Her journey as a truly queen started there. About books and show..well the thing is that: in the books, George has a lot of time to put Dany saying her thoughts and sharing her feelings, which doesn’t happen in the show. In the show, we don’t see Dany talking about a house with red door, or stuff like that. But in general, she is someone who doesn’t like to show her feelings very often. But it’ doesn’t make a big difference for me, since she is my favorite in both books and show.
Meereen
😉
Thi Targaryen,
They could have handled that with facial expression. But somehow I liked book Daenerys more. Maybe it’s the actress I don’t know. Even grrm stated that the show daenerys is different than his.
The character I like better in the show is for instance cercei. She’s more human in the show (when her children were alive).
Another question for everybody: who also have the feeling WoW is done, and George is going to announce that just after the season finale too stay in the hype?
😂
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a05Z5yB_460s.jpg
I just remember that Vyserion was the sweetest of the dragons. 🙁
Interesting comments from the actors who play Tormund and Beric as I wasn’t expecting them to feature in this episode but I am guessing they are now.
I only know two plot points from the leaked outline one is the Dragon pit parlay and the other something from Winterfell – neither have context so there is a lot more I going to happen I am sure.
My predictions for the episode are as follows:
– Jamie kills Cersei
– Euron kills Yara (this is why Theon drops on the beach)
– The wall falls, I assumed this would kill Edd and the remaining Nights watch however I wonder if it happens at Eastwatch and we lose Beric/ Tormund instead, I hope not but not sure how else they fit into the episode?
– The other potential option nobody seems to be talking about is we now have the potential of Cleganebowl!
I hope I am correct with these surely something big must happen.