Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 7 “The Dragon and the Wolf”
Director: Jeremy Podeswa
Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss
Runtime: 80 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Graphic Violence, Nudity
Video Preview: The Dragon and the Wolf
Tonight.
The #GoTS7 finale, “The Dragon and the Wolf,” premieres at 9PM on @HBO. #WinterIsHere pic.twitter.com/1ZPpYd5LwU— Game Of Thrones (@GameOfThrones) August 27, 2017
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Tordor!!!!
I ask and it is given. Thank you, Sue!
Here we goooo.
The final wait after this is going to be insane. 🙁
Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooozy.
Word.
It’s here!!! I expect a few fireworks and revelations, but not a finale as great as “The Winds of Winter”. This is only because I see this season as ‘The Final Season Part 1’ rather than completely separate from Season 8, but I’m still hoping for an incredible episode that sets up the final six episodes.
Unfortunately due to various circumstances I probably won’t be able to watch the episode until Monday evening, but I look forward to reading the fallout after I have watched it.
I’m all in knots. It’s just a show, damnit! How did this happen? (rhetorical)
Anyone else feel like they have to prepare themselves for the inevitable cliffhanger to end all cliffhangers? Maybe it is crazy but I keep thinking I will intimately be bummed out to wait a year and a half for the end of the story. But I guess patience is a virtue!
Also I just read there will only be six episodes in the final season? I thought it was to be seven? Bummer!
The ice dragon cometh! I hope we see ghost too!
Cheers all!
A few cast members have said that this episode sets the stage for the final season. Which means I expect…
1. The Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger storyline to be resolved in some way.
2. The King’s Landing issue to either be resolved or to have a major change happening.
3. More details on Bran and the Night King.
#3 is actually what I find the most important.
Well, now……:)
The Bastard,
Yeah I agree with you, the battle for the dawn (book reference) has to be the end game. That’s what Martin envisioned…I expect the last season to follow suit.
For the record I don’t think Bran is the night king.
I’ve been listening to the soundtrack all afternoon … I’m so hyped I’m about to jump out the window!!
I really don’t want to see a massive cliffhanger at the end of this season. Seasons 1, 2, 3, 4, & 6 ended perfectly fine without major cliffhangers. I feel that is just a cheap ploy.
Chuck,
Do you think he is Bran The Builder?
Hype hype hype hype!!!!!
On one hand I am excited for this episode, but on the other hand it means that after this episode there is only 1 season left. 🙁
“The lone wolf dies, but the pack survives”
Wondering who will outsmart who in this season final.
“When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.”
Highly anticipating! Can’t wait!
Did folks know that that quote appears in AGoT, ACoK and twice in AFfC?
Prediction: Sam shows up at King’s Landing and challenges the Mountain to a duel. Right before the battle, Bran wargs into Sam and he carves the Mountain up like swiss cheese. Bran wargs back out immediately after and the normal Sam then proceeds to clumsily trip on Heartsbane and fall face first into a pile of fresh horse manure. All onlookers are dumbfounded. Cersei and Dany, both still bidding to become the only true Queen, simultaneously knight Sam. Henceforth he is called Ser Piggy the Mountain Slayer.
Amazing what this show can do.
The Bastard,
I think he is Bran shower handle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gODZzSOelss)
In all seriousness, in terms of the show, my own opinion is Bran is Bran. But in the books who knows where Martin is going.
But in terms of the show, clearly Bran has a stake in the endgame. I just can’t figure out what it is. Obviously he messed up last season when he went in the past against the 3 eyes raven’s wishes and the NK “caught” him. Tonight we will presumably see more to that; will the NK and co cross the wall as a result? Will we ever see what that mistake will cost Bran and Westeros?
I’ve been thinking about that statement. Do you think it may mean Bran? I don’t mean it as in Bran will physically die. I mean he’s no longer Bran. Bran is dead; the 3ER lives and the 3ER has no family ties. He seems to only serve as a defense against the WW’s.
Lol. Thx, needed that levity. 🙂
..but I am all for Sam arriving in KL to stir up some shit…and soup…
The Bastard,
Season 2,5 and 6 had very big cliffhanger in my opinion. I hope it will be more like that.
I’m wondering what the last sentence will be in the episode.
That alone is worth the subsciption! 🙂
In 4 hours GoT will be gone for upwards of 2 years 🙁
It won’t be 2 years. My guess is that the last season will debut in the fall of 2018.
I agree. I mostly want resolution so we can get to the Real War next year. They’ve set up a lot to be resolved, so there have to be several breakthroughs. I’m most interested in the big parlay and Winterfell. We need tension in the former and serenity and contentment in the latter. We’ve never seen so many main characters (17?) come together and the tension is bound to be intense. Will Sandor try to talk to Gregor and find out he can no longer speak? Will Euron and Theon have words? And I thrill to the vision of Cersei and Dany facing down each other, probably with Jon in the middle. And what in Hades is the NK going to do with I-Viserion? That threat has to become more real to set up S8. On another note, I’m eager to see what they make of the ruin in Italica outside Seville. It’s beautiful, but I wonder if they’re going to GoTransform it.
I’m hoping-since they said we’re setting up for final season:
1. The pack comes together and LF finally dies
2. Jaime FINALLY leaves Cersei (yes, I know I hope that every episode lol)
3. Sam definitely and maybe Gendry show up in Winterfell
4. Bran has a flashback
5. These people live: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Davos, Tormund, Edd, Brienne, Pod, Bronn, Bran, Arya, Sansa (she’s made me like her this season), Jorah, Sam, Gilly, Gendry, Hound, Jaime…
This is the hardest part with 2h + to go till showtime. I just hope we don’t lose anyone dear tonight. I can deal with the bluster at KL. Not one pic of Dany? Show the wight and let’s get on with the Cleganebowl!
HYPEEEE
THAT TITLE
WHAT DOES IT MEAN
Hodors Bastard,
Really? Interesting. I think I will read the books again in 2018.
I’m wondering if Sam will invent plumbing next season.
Does anyone think that Qyburn will sense an opportunity for innovation when he sees Missandei and Grey Worm together?
Waaaaaaaahhhh! GET HYPE! I’m flagging badly here (it’s 11.40pm) so I need you all to keep me wide awake until 2am please! I’ve read all the spoilers so won’t pretend to do any speculation. All I’ll say is I think people are gonna like this episode, it looks like there’s pretty much something for everyone. Haven’t listened to the soundtrack yet but apparently there’s some really good music coming up too 😀
The show is filming the same time of year that they did for Season 7.
“Mr. Night King, tear down that wall!”
Erica,
The lone wolf dies = Jon Snow is no longer a wolf, R+L=J is revealed on the show. Jon is a Targaryen.
The pack survives = Sansa, Arya and Bran begin to work together, as evidenced by the death of Littlefinger by their hand
Are you saying it’s coming out next year and the 2019 thing is a horrible rumor to torture us?
The bigger question is. Will theon need one too?
I know Jon has already ceded the North to Dany but does anyone think he’ll bend the knee for all to see at this KL meeting?
Pretty sure it’ll be Spring ’19
I’m saying that the shooting of the last season is happening at the same time. If the shoot takes longer, that will delay things. If the post production takes longer, that will delay things. I just don’t see it delaying things for an entire year.
Finally I can think of something positive about this season having just 7 episodes… If it was still ten, you and Dee would run out of letters before the season finale 😀
So hyped too and try not think to much about the long night, that awaits us after tonight!! Extended the joy of tonight’s season finale by arranging a dinner party tomorrow night for several of my friends, who can’t stay up and watch it at 03:00-04:20 AM local time. So now it’s guaranteed two GoT Nights of total entertainment, and also totally excited about seeing their reactions liv!
Filming started in September for S7. It’s starting October for S8.
Happy 50th, Lulu’s Mum!!!! I can’t wait for the ice penguins to be freed when the Wall comes down!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-YNwzfCLXCwU/UV1mc_Xh4yI/AAAAAAAAHpQ/-fvJmPdhsNc/s1600/Penguin-and-Polar-Bear-Ice-Cube-Molds.png
Noh. Nowy tends.
(Sorry, couldn’t help myself)
I’m never emotionally prepared for the season finale, even if I have an idea of what happens. Actually, it’s more that I’m not prepared for ordinary life AFTER the season finale. The SERIES finale should be a real hoot. This is the only show I’ve ever actually felt anxiety over. Arrrrrgh.
http://m.quickmeme.com/img/37/37db44126c74f10cfffbf82a6ed6d0fc411a8d580bb02445e3f41804f7ad45b6.jpg
Hahahahaha!!!!!
You’re not alone on this mission, so no worries. AND BIGTIME HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! 😀
Looking so much forward to the music as well – there should be a completely new theme for a certain someone, so I didn’t dare listening to it before the finale 🙂
I apologize that this meme is from Reddit, but man did I laugh….gotta have some levity!
In the event that the Walkers ever make it to Winterfell, you may be rest assured we are safe:
https://i.redd.it/223agyv9v7iz.jpg
Dead Dane Walking,
Hey that’s is damn decent and cool of you! I hope your friends can avoid spoilers.
The Bastard,
Well in a way S2 was a cliffhanger.
I hear ya, I accidentally took a sedative instead of my thyroid med, so COFFEE IT IS!!!! I have faith in you, my dear penguin ally.
The BBC website has an article on whether Dany, Cersei, Jon, Gendry or Littlefinger would have the best claim to the iron throne. Applying the rules which existed for the (what is now British) monarchy in the Middle Ages, it looks at how accurately the show reflects practice at the time and has comparisons with similar historical figures. LIGHT SPOILER WARNING: for anyone who’s not sure who Jon’s father is, the article assumes it’s the fan favourite.
Bonus: photo of the Queen wearing what looks like a lemon cake hat. I’m now imagining Sansa suddenly appearing stage right and attacking it in the manner of a great white shark. Om nom nom! 😋
When the Others come to Winterfell, I fully expect the dead Kings of the North to rise from the crypts and fight the Others under the command of a living Stark. But that’s some fun for next season.
And after that, FOREVER!!!!!! 😃
It’s going to be such a long-ass winter!!
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Michaelscottfacepalm1.gif
A+ grade for your new gravatar btw. 😉
I HOPE so, that would be so cool…although I suppose they would be skeletons. Still, Jason and the Argonauts CGI could work. 😉
Lulus Mum,
I must say that I wholeheartedly admire the Queen’s and the Queen Mother’s (may she rest in peace) stalwart commitment to being monochromatic!
At least there will be spin offs
Happy Birthday, Lulu’s Mum !
Off to bed, it’s getting late in France, happy watching everyone, see you in a few hours.
Pigeon,
BOOOOOMM 😀 😀 😀 …That one got me good!!
Here we are at the end … at least for a little while. Season 7 has been absolutely phenomenal. I’ve loved every episode, reveled in every great moment, and I have every confidence that tonight’s finale to deliver in a similar fashion.
We don’t know precisely when we’ll have a new episode to discuss after this, but what I do know is that I’m going to savor every precious living second of this one! I hope that you all do as well. Cheers! 🙂
This is amazing. So is your other picture hahahaha
Poor Michael, lol. I feel the same…..yes I got sucked in to the Facebook Night King feature thanks to Kristofer Hivju. It’s a little alarming if you smile using your teeth, not sure what I expected, but ol NK having pearly whites is actually scarier than anything!
Ginevra,
Thanks sweetie. I’d like to say I woke up a proper grown up this morning but that’s a big fat lie, thank goodness 😜
My giant killer penguins are just taking their time. Wall doesn’t matter to them because, unlike (apparently) the WWs and wights, they love water and are good swimmers. As are polar bears actually. The wight animals may prove more of a problem than wight humans, at least the WWs are presumably at least still part-human and can be communicated with?
Jack Bauer 24,
Savor the anticipation! It’s better to await something you desire than to remember how it was after it happened. At least that’s how I feel.
Two of them are bookreaders from way back in the early days. The rest of us are “show only” until after S8E06, but everyone avoid spoilers and leaks. And they won’t be getting any from me, that’s for sure!
Hype!!! I can’t believe this season is already over though 😩
Chuck,
Dooooooooooooozy for sure
Dead Dane Walking,
LOOL
Do you think they might fight in their stone statue likenesses along with their direwolves? I just keep thinking that would be the most badass thing ever…
Cheers! on your birthday, Lulu’s Mom. When your mum had you 50 years ago, I wager she had no idea it would be on such an important date ;-} . I hope you’re right about something for everyone, because cast and crew are saying next season will be “carnage”, so I don’t want this one to end in a Shambles! I will buy the soundtrack tomorrow. I always wait for a season to end because the music and track titles reveal so much. That Ramin Djwadi is a talented bugger. Adieu for now–the spouse and I are off to re-watch episode 6.
Ginevra,
Ice penguins ? Now hold on. I was told there were going to be Wight chickens. 🐤🐓🐓🐓🐓
“You gonna die for some chickens ?”
“Someone is. “
Dee Stark,
You started the doozy thang!
You ready for tonight?
I loved that exchange! Thanks for the reminder.
Erica,
Only if they give Brienne a bell to ring and repeat, “Shame”, on The North’s behalf as he does so.
Haha yes! Had so much fun with that app yesterday with some friends….aaaand beer and a LOT of Gin & Tonic! Have you tried to start with some distance to the camera? Then it adds it gradually. It’s really smooth..
Ice chickens are the most delicious. It is known. The Hound would be all over those bad boys.
Dead Dane Walking,
Thank you er…Ser Arthur? (just guessing there, he’s the only dead Dayne I know). I shall eat loads of cake and send keeping awake sugary vibes through my keyboard to everyone who needs them. Because of course I wouldn’t dream of eating cake normally. Oh no.
As for the music, hoping Team Awesome from the trailer (Jon and gang) come in to something from West Side Story and do some finger clicking, bring it Lannisters, dance moves!
Pigeon,
Oooh I take thyroid stuff too (under active). I’ll eat some cake for you, oh feathery one.
This is it! I’m so excited!
The long wait/Long Night will be upon us soon so let’s savor every moment of this episode.
Happy viewing to everyone! 😋🙏
Ginevra,
Wight chihuahuas’ would scare the shit out of me.
Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezy! Wanna by a vowel? 😀 Are you ready for some feature lenght Game…of…Thrones??!!!
I’m going nuts here. Just know they’ll go off the charts tonight and fuck us up badly…and I’ll love or love to hate every bit of it!
I am excited but sad at the same time. Excited for the episode but sad that this season is almost over. Only 6 more episodes left. 😀😥😀😥😀😥😀😥
Oh SWEET. That would be amazing! 😲😲 The Weeping Stark Angels!
Perfect!
I’ll buy that scenario!
Well said. Thanks for the kind words lately btw. I know I’ve been hard on this season, but I still love the show and it’s my favorite show ever.
Yes! Very neat. And a definite improvement on my normal visage! (pats ice crown vainly)
Wight wasps. Or wight anythings that fly. Wight ravens. Wight dragons! Oh, wait….
Bloody annoying, isn’t it? (thyroid issues, not cake. Cake is wonderful.) Eat ALL the cake!!! You’re still a mere fledgling. 😊🎂
Whatever you do, DON’T BLINK!!!!
OMG…what an aweful thought!! Last weeks polar bear will suddenly look like Paddington next to a wight chihuahua!
Back when I signed up, I was actually SO close to picking a name with some Dayne-play in it, but went for this WW/Green Mile combo.
Almost (edit: forget the “almost”!!) burping from the thought of all that e-cake 😀 ..or might just be the Dr. Pepper fizz, I finally managed to find again in Denmark.
There are three things I’d like to see tonight: Cersei die, Littlefinger die, and a Rhaegar flashback! I’m sure not all will happen, if any, but at hopefully at least one will. Trying so hard to get the kids asleep early so maybe I can finally watch it at its actual time!
Ginevra,
Must save lots of mmm what goes with this dress/coat/hat decisions, which add up over the years.
DaphNenya,
Hope this is correct: Je te remercie 😀
Stark Raven' Rad,
And thanks to you too 😀 Not gonna give anything away but there is more than one thing due to happen which will make quite a few of us give an appreciative “oh yeeeeesss”. Some of the soundtrack titles are a little spoilery, but nothing along the lines of the Star Wars ones which are basically a description of what happens in the scenes, including named characters’ deaths 🙁
Gfx,
Gfx,
Ah! I forgot that a Rhaegar flashback may be a possibility! I hope to see that, too!
https://media.tenor.com/images/e498675c38627f32d7aeb9d019a567eb/tenor.gif
Erica,
I know! I feel like they’re really setting it up with Beric’s comment to Jon about his appearance as well as Gilly’s “Prince Ragger” discovery.
Lulus Mum,
Happiest of birthdays!!
The Bastard,
Jon Snow dying in season 5 wasn’t a cliffhanger?
I wish you all good fortune in the episode to come!
Erica,
Lord Glover will change his mind again, renounce Jon, and declare Sansa QitN
On point!! And add to that Dany arriving at the meeting in traditional black’n bright red Targ colors and maybe a saddle on Drogon. Didn’t think of Rhaegar flashback…but that would just be the icing, wouldn’t it!
Erica,
Gfx,
Yes. And this talk about spoilery song titles is giving a whole new meaning to this episode’s title 🤞🏽👏🏽
Al S.,
So we have consensus, littlefinger dies tonight?
Dead Dane Walking,
That you Mr. Jingles?
Da Queen in da Norf!
But seriously, he better not. 🙂
Yes, I think the tribe has spoken.
ramses,
See I couldn’t even bring myself to read the song titles yet and it’s beyond tempting since I have spotify! It’ll be exciting to see!
My dreams for tonight:
1. Knight of the Fucking Laughing Tree!!!
2. Jon riding Rhaegal and setting down in Winterfell!!!
3. Arya badassery.
4. Sam the Slayer badassery.
Dead Dane Walking,
Oh man it would! I can’t wait!
Seven hells, what does a mouse actually say? 😀
…oh man, that would even make my user name more appropriate since Mr. Jingles was revived as well..!!
Erica,
I’ve been wondering that exact same thing! Very curious about that. Guess we’ll find out. 😊
Well, the brief time here’s been fun. Going to try like hell to get the kids to sleep. Enjoy tonight everyone!
Almost time!! 😀
Here’s my Twitter contribution to the commentary tonight…
Now I turn off the phone and enjoy a traditional pre-episode pizza. Have fun all! 🙂
About to sign off. Enjoy the finale everyone. Sad that it’s ending tonight. I wish you all good fortune in the wars to come.
Chuck,
A girl is not ready
Sansa will then diplomatically and wisely turn down a minor suggestion by Glover, and he will renounce Sansa and declare his horse King in the North.
Dead Dane Walking,
Good luck to us!!!!!
I’m not readyyyyyy!!!!
Dee Stark,
It’s such a weird night. The usual shakes we get after the episodes…well, I have’em already! And now I just realized, I’ve completely forgotten my normal routine of watching the previous one or two episodes, while waiting into the middle of the night!
Yes. Enjoy the finale, everyone! 20 minutes to go, so I go, too. Deep breath!!
Wow, season finale time already!!
I hope everyone enjoys the episode 🙂
Dead Dane Walking,
GET HYPE!!!
I’m hyped, too! I did some dancing to John Cougar Mellencamp earlier.
Nymeria the wolf,
The show can’t drag it out any longer. Bran startled Littlefinger with the “Chaos is a ladder” line a few episodes back. Bran has seen how LF devastated his family. It’s time for the three wolves at Winterfell to taste sweet revenge.
Thanks, you too!
The finale!!!
Ginevra,
Do you think we will see Ice Dragon breath ICE FIRE? Wooohoo
Ginevra,
SUPER HYPED….. thanks for the convo earlier… I loved it!! Enjoy the show!
10 minutes to go….ENJOY & SAVOR IT EVERYONE! Looking forward to comments after the show.
Ginevra,
Uuh it’s been a while since I played something with JCM 🙂 Might do that…tomorrow! Now it’s time to stock up on beverages and snacks and then – LIGHTS OUT!
I hope as many as possible will find something to their liking in the first truly feature-ish episode in GoT history. Enjoy everyone and try to stay alive!
Ginevra,
Those all sound amazing…. I will HOPE that all comes true!! ESP Jon riding his dragon FINALLY!!
You too. It’s been a pleasure to see another side of you tonight. It suits you well!
Westworld S2 !! I gotta be me! 🙂
Lulus Mum,
Happy birthday! I hope this episode will be a worthy present for you.
Yes, Viserion will definitely spew ice, though I’m not sure if that will happen this episode or not!
Wait, countdown of 5 minutes? We are starting LATE?
This is the Final Episode guys!!!!!!!
i’ll be back on to read the responses, hope you all enjoy it ^^
Ugh, 2 more minutes…
A Dornish Tyrell,
Thanks DT 😀
Enjoy it everyone, see you in about 90 mins (we have ad breaks here on Sky so we’ll finish about 5 mins or so behind HBO). The episode is here!
Urgh, I hate Auto-Quality…. I get shitty quality (with 120MBit!), so it seems like a lot here in Germany watch the Finale…!
Have fun watching the Season 7 Finale!
Inga,
Thanks missus see you later *squeeeeeee* 😀
I hope someone will be reporting what’s happening on the screen: it’s 4 a.m. at my place and the episode will air only after 6 hours here, but I am so earger to share the hype with you watchers that I couldn’t sleep tonight.
Start the damn episode before I piss myself!
Damn. And here I thought that promo was going to announce when Season 8 would premiere. This offseason is going to kill me.
Oh, and could they PLEASE take the damn Baratheon sigil off of King’s Landing? Seriously…
Cleganebowl!!!!!
Cleganebowl confirmed!!!
Boy, Lena is smoking hot
What was Hound referring to when he was talking to the Mountain?
RBloodworth,
Maybe all this time it was a subtle hint of the whereabouts of Gendry – the last of the Baratheons.
There’s been a longstanding rumour that Lena Headey and Jerome Flynn won’t work together. Until now I wasn’t sure if it was true or not, but Bronn wandering out of the Dragonpit scene for no reason would seem to suggest it is.
The Cleganebowl is cancelled and I love that the writers addressed it in the way they did ^^
Also, for all the spectacular majesty of Daenerys’s arrival, I prefer Cersei’s. So delightfully sinister and intimate…
❤Sandor❤
That is my favourite outfit of Lena’s by far.
Honestly, they need to grow the fuck up and be professional. I mean, obviously I don’t know the intimate details, but damn.
Gregor is no longer the brother Sandor had. He’s a rather pathetic, if dangerous, hybrid machine. So it wouldn’t have that satisfaction as it may have should they have met previously. Just my opinion. 😊
Inga,
Will try to keep you updated as I have live pause and cat climbing all over me so I have to stop it from time to time anyway.
Starts off with people on their way to the dragonpit. Brienne tells Houndie Arya is at Winterfell and he smiles. Tyrion has reunion with Pod and Bronn. I’m getting FEELS already. I’ll keep an eye on what people are posting and fill in any obvious gaps. Watch this space 🤓
Lulus Mum,
Thank you so much but please don’t ruin your fun.
Cue the “Stupid Jon Snow” memes…
Halfman!!!
Qyburn’s fascination for the Wight’s severed hand is such a great moment. The writers get this character perfectly.
Euron’s decision to go back home was bloody brilliant ! The man is mad as a chair but he is not and has never been idiotic.
*twiddle thumbs expectantly*
“Screw this, I’m out.” LOL.
Wow. I can not wait. I have struggled all season to be unspoiled and it’s gonna pay off tonight! Got to get these kids to bed so we can watch. Another sleepless night for me, for sure. But so worth it. I love this show.
Tyrion calling Cersei the most murderous woman in the world is funny considering for whom he serves as Hand ^^
Bloody hell, I had missed those scenes between Tyrion and Cersei, the most beautifully messed up relationship in whole of Westeros.
Ha ha ! Spoken like a person with a brain 😉
Oh, bitch! Give away all the family secrets, why don’t you?!!!!
Inga,
I get so tense watching it I have to stop it anyway, even when I know what’s coming! Sometimes I have to fast forward to the end of scene to see what happens, then go back and watch it normally.
Gonna cover these just in case
I’ve realised I’ve read a detailed description of this episode very recently which people thought was fake but looks like the real deal. As a fellow spoiler fan you may have seen it already.
Lulus Mum,
Yes, I’ve red every leak I could get. Just let me know how it looks: is it good?
So where’s Yara?
well, at 6pm (9 EST) just as we were sitting down to watch, our cable decided to go out. They have someone from Cox working on it but right now Im a little miffed. Im gonna stay off for a while until I can watch the show later. errrrrgggggf.
YES! FINALLY!
HE’S DEAD!
Theon was never Ned’s “son”; he was his hostage. The Stark patriarch had promised to kill Theon if Balon ever rebelled again. Regardless how well he treated the boy, that did not change the reality of the situation. Jon’s speech about his father/uncle was lovely and full of good intentions but, above all, it highlights how “whitewash” the memory of Ned Stark is among his relatives. An interesting reminder considering what Jon and his “siblings” will eventually discover about Ned’s real relationship to truth-telling…
The lone wolf dies!!!!!
Sansa better be playing, otherwise I’m done with her. There’s no coming back from this shit.
Inga,
Oh Inga you have to see this on a big proper screen! Low res, computer screens or, heaven forbid, phones just won’t do it justice. There’s lots of awesome acting going on, people’s faces are so important this week. Tense, happy, sad, it’s all there and that’s just the first 15 mins I LOVE IT! 😀
I know everyone will be super happy! I will miss him, but they did a pretty good job of messing with everyone this season, didn’t they? 😉 Goodbye, you glorious man. ❤ I shall wear my pin in your memory.
Bye-bye, LF! We might see your face next season, though…
Beautiful finale
It happened
Lulus Mum,
Good to hear but I only watch GoT on my PC (it’s better than my TV).
YES! GODS, YES!
IT’S CONFIRMED!!!
Lol!!!! Right after I typed that during the adverts…..
Inga,
Find a friend with an HD tv if you can! 😀
May it never be forgotten, that all things considered, kittens love him.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/04/d6/94/04d694c1d10a6d0e6a3fba1f5bceb676.jpg
The Greyjoys didn’t know Theon was neutered?
Sam schools Bran!!!!
Littlefinger’s death was unfortunately “blah”. Not nearly personal or intimate enough.
He was such a good villain with an extensive reach and he deserved more; as such, it felt grossly underwhelming. As a result, the feud between the Stark sisters was resolved way too quickly and with little to no explanation too which is also a bloody shame because the conflict was actually interesting.
I thought we already had Aegon.
The pack is back!!!!
Don’t die, Tor!!!! Ice dragon?
Gosh I’m a Hypocrite!
I was hating this episode Until that last 30mins!
After 3 episodes of that “let’s kidnap a wight so we can proof to Cersei to join our cause’ and waiting to see if that plotpoint could Possibly make sense, I was ready to Bitch-slap this episode badly!
But show me Rhaegar and Lyanna marrying,
Littlefinger getting his come-uppance,
and an Ice Dragon fucking melting the Wall…
…and I’m in to loving this Big-Time!!! lol
So Arya/Sansa set up LF the entire time? Were they arguing last episode hoping LF was listening?
ACME,
I haven’t seen it yet but based on plot leaks I wonder whether this conflict is really resoleved or Sansa just playes the game of faces.
Ice dragon!!!! That Wall is coming down!!!! Tormund!!!!!!!!!!
Did Tormund die?
Wow… My ICE DRAGON DID IT…….
The season 7 Watch has Ended!!!!!
The Long Night has Begun!!!!!!!
I guess Tyrion really does love Daenerys. Watch out, Jon!
The Winterfell plot was stupid to the bitter end. There’s not a hint of an explanation for when or why Sansa figured all this out — if she was the one who figured it out, at that, since it could have been Bran, for all we know. In particular, there was no narrative setup at all for revisiting things like Littlefinger’s dealings with Ned Stark.
Oh, well, Littlefinger’s dead, and Aidan Gillen will never annoy me again on this show with his bad acting.
Elsewhere, Tyrion seriously deserves a Least Valuable Player trophy for this season. His stupid stratagems have accomplished nothing but losing huge chunks of Dany’s forces, including one of her dragons, all to obtain a phony alliance that Cersei plans to use to betray them.
Fooee, no Ghost
Ginevra,
If Jaime didn’t drown, then it’s plot-possible that Tormund didn’t die.. but really.. the entire wall fell and an army of the dead marched through. There’s no logical way he survived.
The boatsex that was promised
But wait….! The game continues…. 🙂
AMAZING finale. As someone who was against Littlefinger dying, I must say that it was my favorite part of the episode, they handled it beautifully. As also someone against boatsex, that scene is also one of the best the show has done, intercutting with Bran’s visions. The wall falling was epic, the Cersei/Jaime scene was fantastic and the Dragonpit sequence was very good.
Ginevra,
Ginevra,
I don’t know….. but I knew they would show the marriage
Cersei gave the order and the Mountain pulled out his sword. Why did he stand down?
LF’s fate is very underwhelming for the one that started all this conflict; the original villain in this story.
I would have thought the whole wall would come down, not just a tiny piece but the ice dragon was cool.
Wow incredible episide….. favorite part LF DIES!
I really thought the Mountain was going to kill Jaime
Looks like Gemma did slip up on that talk show.
So back for S8.
They left that story hanging.
Why would Rhaegar have two different children named Aegon? Isn’t that confusing? And the first Aegon was still alive when Jon was named.
LOL Now that littlefinger is dead it seems Tyrion will be taking up position in all of his favorite lurking corners 🙂
HereBeDragons,
Was that Harry Lloyd in the role of Rheagar? Lol. It looked just like him. Sorry, this might be addressed up thread, started at bottom.
That was absolutely the second best finale behind WOW. So many great character centric moments. And that finale scene…. no matter how braced I was it still wasn’t enough.
I can’t even process it all right now.
Aegon? Really? I guess it is what it is…
The darker, more bitter Tyrion is back….!
Why didn’t Bran know about the marriage being annulled?
Ginevra,
I don’t know……. my guess is yes
Ah, sweet relief! I can go on the internet again without fear of seeing a leak. Oh, and the episode was freaking awesome!!!
In the very beginning with the hound and the mountain, what was that conversation with the latter knowing all along who will kill him. Is the hound referring to himself as the killer?
I kinda thought he might be talking about Arya too though.
Or, The Hound saw something in the flames way back when his brother shoved his face into the fire!!!
Ginevra,
Many people don’t understand this right now. But Rhaegar truly believed the prophecy of Aegon being the name of the Ptwp and that hero would spring forth from his loins so to guarantee that, because he did not know which son it would end up being, he made sure to name them both Aegon. Simples.
Hi, I’m Rhaenys Targaryen. This is my brother, Aegon. And this is my other brother, Aegon.
Ginevra,
Thank you for the Inside video! It is so nice of you so we can just click on it and watch!
I’ve only watched it once so far – Did Cersi wake up in a bed of blood having lost the baby and I missed it? Or was that prediction wrong?
Tormund didn’t die. If you look closely, you can see a few figures standing on the edge of the Wall which is still intact, and I’ll bet anything that Tormund and Beric are there.
The spoiler about Cersei having a miscarriage was bogus.
CGI wight dragon was a bit dodgy, but otherwise this was a great episode. The demise of LF was done really well, the best plot twist in a while! They have restored my faith.
The way Bran kept saying that Jon “has to know” has got me wondering if maybe Jon will never find out. Could they decide not to tell him, when they see he’s in a relationship with Dany? Another reason could be to ensure that everyone stays united while the real threat is dealt with. And then of course the classic irony will be that Jon dies without ever finding out.
Rhaegar looked a lot like Dany’s brother, though I still don’t understand the annulment thing.
Poor Jorah, he tried so hard to put Jon in the friendzone. Weird lingering shot of Tyrion looking worried that Jon is coupling with Dany, that was quite foreboding. Emilia Clarke is smoking hot…..
I think Bran has to know to look for something in order to see it, he can’t just like…hop 20 years in the past on this day of that month of that minute of that second and see a wedding.
But once he knew to look maybe?
The season started amazingly strong and there were some genuinely great moments all the way through but the last two episodes really proved that there was more than enough material for an eight, possibly even an ninth episode :
– the relationship between Jon and Daenerys should have been given more and better screentime together before jumping into bed together ! Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke can carry a truly good confrontation and their characters’ respective backgrounds provide them with remarkable potential for passionate conflict and equally passionate “reconciliation” (wink wink). As is, I am forced to conclude that they decided they were in love based on two short semi-philosophical conversations and the fact that they are both shockingly handsome… It makes Jon and Daenerys look shallow as hell (not unlike Lyanna and Rhaegar);
– Jon’s trip to Eastwatch and the gathering of his crew also needed more details;
– where the hell is the Iron Bank ? Tycho should have had quite a few things to say after the Highgarden gold was brought to King’s Landing !
– Littlefinger’s death… I am forever going to be disappointed by that one ! Lady Olenna, who never got much on an impact on the plot (outside of her following either Baelish’s or Varys’s instructions) and did not connect with any “main” character on any real personal level (aside from Margaery), got a better and more interesting death than the man who engineered both the Crown’s bankruptcy and the War of the Five Kings and who also mentored one of the Stark children ! Hells, even Walder “no agency withouth Tywin Lannister” Frey got a more meaningful and emotionally rewarding demise, for Petyr’s sake ^^ I’ll admit there was something genuinely gripping in seeing Littlefinger moved and lost to the point of tears and the love/betrayal thematic paradox was a truly good one but it deserved so much more screentime and an infinitely better setup, dammit !
I dont think the entire wall fell. Just a big chunk of it.
Game of Thrones goes old school and delivers the goods…
The Dragon and the Wolf made season 7 EPIC!!!!!!!!!
I have a hard time deciding whether this or 6×10 was the best episode of the series.
So who else thought Jaime and Tyrion were going to die? And I was not thrilled about the Rhaegar Targaryen flashback, I thought it was Harry Lloyd playing him, was it?
None of the Greyjoys knew Theon is neutered? Why did he go for a nutshot on Theon?
ygritte,
It looked like Harry Lloyd to me. I did not see him in the credits, however. ??
Mildly disappointing. No surprises or twists, valonqar and CleganeBowl punted on until next season, King Jon treated as a big reveal except that it has already been revealed to all but the most dense show watchers, the wall falling in a very straight-forward and not completely sensible way (ice vs ice?), and Littlefinger’s inevitable demise being far more direct than I expected. I was really hoping for some multi-layered scheme here, and got nothing more than Sansa finally internalizing what she already long knew.
Generally I’d say the same about the season as a whole – mildly disappointing. Visually and technically spectacular, of course, but I was really hoping for a Ned’s execution/Red Wedding/Hold-the-Door twist, and got nothing of the sort. Instead, everything ran right down the most predictable courses.
How fitting that Littlefinger’s last word was “I.”
Really? It was a bluff, and Jamie saw through it.
ygritte,
It did look like him, but would be relatively sure, they cast someone else.
Were Arya/Sansa playing LF the entire time?
Bob Warren,
“The way Bran kept saying that Jon “has to know” has got me wondering if maybe Jon will never find out.”
For me, that was a call-back to the classic line of “you know nothing Jon Snow.”
Alfie Allen as Theon was amazing tonight. His work this season had been brilliant as always, but to night he was simply breathtakingly great.
Jack Bauer 24,
Calm down with the questions jeez.
Ginevra,
yeah, that’s a bit weird. I mean rhaegar’s not there, but Lyanna still has to know his son’s name. Unless rhaegar just didn’t mind. Doubt it will be addressed, unfortunately. Even curiouser considering a certain plotline from the books that the show skipped over.
Ah, sweet relief! I can go on the internet again without fear of seeing a leak. Oh, and the episode was freaking awesome!!!
But Ghost is still at Winterfell waiting for Jon. Jon does not have to choose, as he told Theon — he can be Stark and Targaryen.
Ginevra,
Once Tywin ordered Rhaegar’s children to be killed by the Mountain and that was completed…. Rhaegar still thought his child would fulfill the prophecy. So he used the name again for when Lyanna gave birth… he wanted a price again called Aegon
ramses,
Jorah to Tyrion: Welcome to the friendzone!
I wonder if Tower of Joy and Jons birth took place after the sack of Kings Landing….I don’t know the timeline that well, but if Lyanna had heard about the sack and I’m sure Rhaegar must of brought up his whole Aegon prophecy. She could of just named Jon/Aegon knowing his brother was already…deceased. Dany was born after the sack wasn’t she?
Bob Warren,
What’s the deal with ice dragon having holes in its wings? What happened since it was drug out of the lake?
Probably nothing. Probably just their attempt to make it look dead. Hmmm
Aisling Franciosi !
There is a spoiler no one cracked!
Looks like Harry Lloyd, can’t find the cast list, anyone verify?
ACME,
Dude what?
Olenna killed Joffrey. Pretty big plot point.
Dany and Jon have been together non-stop for a while now. They’ve been living on dragonstone and spent a lot of time on the boat. Plus 5 or 6 intimate conversations on screen.
The gold from Highgarden went straight to the Iron Bank. That was what that entire conversation between Tycho and Cersei was about.
Inga,
You may be utterly right. I am not a leak-reader so I am entirely in the dark. However, I would argue that Littlefinger was a great instigator of conflict between the sisters and much more could have been done with it than what we got. If the sisterly feud is reintroduced next season, I am afraid it will seem desperately rehashed. Been there, done that…
The plot does thicken, indeed 😉
Though, it does not take away from Euron’s intelligence. The man is staying on water; he ain’t dumb ^^
Ginevra,
Wait, who are you talking about?
🙂
NK on Viserion looked really weird. That first scene when Viserion swooped in looked off. Anyone else think so?
Fuckin brilliant.
I think you’d be surprised. I was recently watching S7 episodes with some friends who did not read the books, nor do they frequent GOT-related forums, and they had NO idea that Rhaegar was Jon’s father. It’s clear to fans who know what to look for, but for the more casual viewer it’s a huge reveal.
Absolutely they were!!!
All you Sansa-haters and Arya-doubters can eat shit!
Winter has come!
Long time lurker, first time posting. It occurred to me that when the Hound says to the Mountain…”You know who’s coming for you, you’ve always known” that it might mean that the Mountain saw a vision in the fire as a child about how he would die, panicked and out of fear tried to sacrifice his brother instead? The Hound now knows because of the vision he saw in the fire.
Not only is this my first post, but it may also be my first tinfoil theory! Btw, love this site and reading all of your comments!
But that music when snow fell on KL… I was in chills.
Epic. From one of the worst episodes last week to one of the best. Depth, emotion, intrigue. Loved almost every second.
(Except for the Jon/Dany part…weirder and weirder to me every day. But obviously Jon’s going to freak out when he finds out the truth, break it off, but she’ll be preggers. Sigh. That’s a side drama I could have lived without.).
I had Winds of Winter on repeat all afternoon. 🙂
Boojam,
According to an article on Vanity Fair the actor playing Rhaegar was Wilf Scolding . They even comment on how he is a dead ringer for Harry Lloyd. I sure thought it was. I spent the whole time studing his face and didn’t even look at Lyanna!
Jack Bauer 24,
i can’t tell if they were playing DouchebagFinger the whole time. But I’ve got to say…Sansa kicked ass tonight.
– “Do you deny it!”
– “Please I can exp….”
– “Do you deny it!”
Great scene with the sisters reciting their dad’s words.
Except the other siblings were still alive when Jon was born. Ygritte’s explanation makes sense, but it is still silly.
Goodbye Felicia — uh Little Finger. And good riddance. Methinks Sansa has been putting the pieces together her little old self over the past seven episode, so good for her. I knew all that frogging around with the sisters Stark would have a beneficial payoff! Another entertaining surprise was Theon — it looks like he grew ’em back. (In another part of Westeros, so did Jamie. And Brienne connected with her girl power booster.) Also happy to see Sam actually did listen to Gilley after all, if only to connect the dots with Bran regarding Jon’s pedigree. Actually, Bran should have known that already, but …. BTW, has anyone told Sam he’s now the new Lord Tarley? Those were the nice surprises, the rest of the episode was just tons of fun watching what we were all speculating upon actually happen. Great cliffhanger, can’t wait for 2018.
The CGI at the end was awful
Completely agree.
There were several moments where I was in awe of the acting. Last week felt so contrived and mechanical to me. This week connected on so many levels.
Disappointed in Rhaegar.
“Handsomest Man in the 7 Kingdoms”?
Get used to it. I think its a 15 year old who doesn’t know what he’s watching.
i was a Sansa doubter. But not anymore! All hail the Lady of Winterfell!
(Arya will always be my queen though)
Ginevra,
He just so happens to be a HOOSIER…. woohoo so am I! Lol well I was born and raised there… funny you like him!!
Mawk,
lol by the time Ned arrived in the Tower of Joy, KL was already sacked. You guys need to check your timelines. Ned goes to KL in place of Robert, both to take the surrender and save his sister. Jaime took care of the first, so and then he leaves for the ToJ, where Lyanna just gave birth. So by all means, she should know he (Jon) is the heir to the Throne, and what happened in KL.
So they were arguing last week hoping LF was eavesdropping on them?
I’m the opposite because I loved all the King’s Landing stuff but I hated the rest. Littlefinger deserved a better ending than that poorly constructed Winterfell plot.
Why exactly does a wight dragon breathe blue fire? Blue is a hotter flame than red. I know it’s a fantasy show but the dragons are as realistic as they can be. They don’t shoot magic fireballs. We’ve seen Drogon running out of fire to use when he comes to save Dany in Meereen. So why does an undead dragon, that doesn’t breathe, breathe magic fire? The dragon fire has always looked realistic but those blue flames just looked cheesy. Oh well. It is what it is.
On the other hand, the scene between Theon and Jon was amazing. “You don’t have to choose,” advice that I am sure Jon will need to be hearing himself soon. I thought there was going to be a Theon drowning and coming back in his fight, but they didn’t go there, which was good.
Cersei is the smartest stupid person in all the lands. Long may she reign!
Jack Bauer 24,
Jack, did you enjoy the episode?
I thought it was really good. The night king looked abit off all season, but that didn’t stop the enjoyment of it.
I heard a rumor that a Welsh actor was hired, don’t recall the name. And it was a rumor.
Ok was Alfie Allen outstanding or was he outstanding? Loved the Theon/Jon scene which moved me to tears and the beach fight was great. That grin!!! Awesome.
Arya & Bran clearly got Sansa’s mind right. Stark Wolfpack is officially united & ready for the War for the Dawn. Watch out Night King. Starks are ready for you…
That Jon/Theon scene was tremendous. Jon just brought Theon back from the brink. He’s no longer Reek & never will be again. He’s a Greyjoy & a Stark… Loved it.
Question? What was up with Tyrion on the boat? He looked very disapproving & maybe even a little shady there. What was you guy’s take on him & his reaction in that scene?
That was when Sansa told Littlefinger that Arya was a Faceless Man.
What a ride!
Jamie broke with Cersei, Jon (Aegon!) is the legitimate heir to the IT no ambiguity, Lyanna & Rhaegar were in love *RR was predicated on a lie or misconception*, Sansa & Arya were working together to take out Littlefinger and I am so here for that~finally that POS is dead How do you answer these charges Lord Baelish?, Jon + Dany; common we knew this was going to happen, Tyrion being jealous tho?? really?
this doesn’t look good : /, Viserion is a wight, not the draconic equivalent of a WW, AND DOWN COMES THE WALL
Hoo boy, the next however many months is going to be a long, cold wait.
I shall endeavor to dream of Spring
The Dragon and the Wolf is by far …. easily the best episode of season 7
I like the Dragon and Wolf just as much as I like The Winds of Winter.
Jack Bauer 24,
Is that all you care about? How’d you feel about Theon’s character arc? The actual reveal of Jon’s parentage? Cersei and Jaime’s confrontation? You know aside from budgeting and CGI related things.
I think this is just the showrunners combining characters again… There’s been no mention of the names of Rhaegar’s children in the show, so using Aegon for Jon may bring the show and the books back in sync.
Always the tone of dismay…
Littlefinger should have suffered.
Is it Christmas? Did I just get everything I wanted?!!
Did Jaime really leave Cersei? FINALLY?!
Is LF actually dead and did Sansa fully embrace the Stark side?
Yep. Yeah that all happened.
Still trying to take it all in…
onefromaway,
😂
Jack Bauer 24,
I was a bit confused by that. How could ZombieMountain grasp the nuances of a bluff? He/it follows commands.
Crater,
Why would they have been playing Littlefinger the whole time? There was no point to doing so; they could have killed him at any point.
that was stellar!!!! wish rhaegar got more screentime!!
Jack Bauer 24,
Baelish does love his peepholes… His reputation proceeded him, so to speak.
We never find out what Tyrion and Cersei discussed in order for her to “change” her mind. I wonder if Tyrion knows of her plan to not send troops. Or if he’s finally choosing family, if he doesn’t have children himself the Lannister name would die (I’m assuming there are no more cousins left). Would Cersei being pregnant change Tyrions mind? Looking at Jon and Dany together knowing he will have to betray them at some point?
Or he could just be jelly.
I’m going to assume Tormund and Beric lived. Not only because they’re too major to at least strongly hint that they fell, if not show it, but the last time we saw them they got past the falling part. I was thinking they’d run toward the sea though and that end fell. *shrug*
Rhaegar did look like Harry, but then they probably wanted a resemblance and putting that hair on him would make it more so. Again… *shrug*
I don’t know what to think of Viserion. I’d written a forum post on the topic a while back. I’m going to ignore my questioning of it due to the fantasy genre, but I do question it. If he’s simply a wight dragon I wouldn’t think he’d be able to shoot anything due to the organs not functioning. Seeing what capabilities it had I’d say the NK turned it into a White Dragon Walker… Then I’d have to believe he can turn a dead body into a WW as well and not just an animated dead wight…
I love Lena’s and Peter’s scenes together so much that I’m honestly hoping Tyrion switches allegiance and becomes Cersei’s hand 🙂
Jack Bauer 24,
I suspected that all along, really I did. It would have been highly disappointing for it to have turned out otherwise.
Tormund and Beric are dead?
Aegon the Icedragon,
Tyrion knew before Jon knew that Jon loves Daenerys and Tyrion is looking out for his Lannister family and Fire and Ice together will be a strong alliance… okay I’ll admit I don’t know what Tyrion is thinking.
I got the same gift as you and it’s glorious. And we even got a peek at Rhaegar.
And Tyrion eyeing Dany’s bedroom knowing that Jon was in there…that was just a bit concerning. And Cersei was even more calculating than I imagined.
Ginevra,
Well Rhaegar wasn’t there when JS was born so in reality Lyanna named him …
Sean C.,
I’m with you on Tyrion as LVP.
Dany would’ve done better naming the Captured Wight as Hand.
This episode did not disappoint 🙂 So glad Jamie left! Worried for him though. He’s all alone and winter is here.The boatsex was romantic and done well (Got so sick of seeing that word at spoiler city.) The interaction between Tyrion and Cercei was old school Thrones and I loved it. Night king and ice dragon and army that shit was cool and ominous!
And Jon, dear sweet (former) King Jon I love ya and I know Cercei put you on the spot but….could you not have tried to brush it aside first? Felt bad for him when everyone made him realize his goof tho. He truly shows is a man of his word. He cannot lie.
Ten Bears,
Maybe the Hound got to him somehow.
Lord knows…
If so, it was terribly setup ! If their intention was to make Littlefinger believe they were feuding, then they should have argued in public, or at least in front of witnesses likely to report to Baelish and let him believe his plan was working. Instead, they only ever argued when no one was around so… Blah !
Rex,
Alfie Allen and Peter Dinklage did great this season, as per usual. They, along with Lena Headey, Conleth Hill and Aiden Gillen (as well as Michelle Fairley, when she was around… I miss Cat ^^) always elevate their scenes and characters, no matter what they are given to do. As it turns out, the writers decided to give Allen and Dinklage interesting things to do this year so there is plenty to enjoy ! ^^
Theon’s tormented path to rebirth, so to speak, was a pleasure to witness and granted Alfie Allen enough space and time to remind everyone of how remarkable an actor he is.
Tyrion’s conversation with Cersei was a highlight of this lackluster finale and so was his finale look at Daenerys’s door. His sister was right; the Mother of Dragons is his type of woman and, while not romantically interested in her (at least, I believe), he puts her on such a pedestal and expects so much from her that he is reluctant to accept her human nature, here embodied by her sentimentality and libido. Given that Daenerys still has two treasons to go, including one for love, Tyrion’s current emotional predicament should be a driving force next season.
Leuf,
I would say the dragon is more of a white Walker dragon. It was created in the same process as a white Walker (night Walker touching it, as he did with the male babies).
To keep him in play, there at Winterfell, thinking he was winning… Keeping their enemy close, while they set him up for the fall.
The couldn’t just cut his throat in his bed… They had to keep the Vale on their side, and little Lord Robyn from asking too many questions.
Woooooooooooooooow
What a doozy
Absolutely loved this episode
Superb acting and visuals
Winterfell scenes were some of my favourites
Can’t wait to watch it again!!!
But then he would have seen Arya hand Sansa the dagger. Doesn’t make sense
Speaking of which….does Captured Wight get a Curtain Call?
Jack Bauer 24,
Re Tormund and Beric being possibly dead…..I don’t know!! That’s what it seemed like. OY!
And what’s with Rhaegar looking exactly like Viserys? That’s going to extremely confuse the casual viewer.
stefan666,
What is your conclusion? I am having a really hard time to decide that also.
Sean C.,
Dany should behead Tyrion. He destroyed her and helped the dead with his stupid plans.
If only the chain on the wight had been just a LITTLE bit longer, the episode would’ve been perfect 😉
No One,
I’m gonna have to watch this one a couple more times before deciding.
Jack Bauer 24,
Im guessing that they were NOT playing LF the whole time and didn’t know until Bran told them.. Bran can’t see everything all the time at once and that he maybe just finally figured it out himself and thus told his sisters and that was how they were able to finally come together.. but boy did they play him at the end….. so wished he had suffered a bit more but alas it matters not…. Valor Mughalis (sp)??
OH SHIT THAT WAS AMAZING
Highlights for me:
JAIME IS NOT DEAD AND IS RIDING NORTH IN NORTHERN STYLE LEATHER I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THESE FEELS. And he puts his fucking golden hand under cover. Jaime: “I swore a solemn vow.” YES! Now go find Brienne.
Arya/Sansa/LF/Bran: Very awesome and satisfying! They played Littlefinger and they played me too. LOVED IT! Especially LF begging for his damn life. YES.
QYBURN THE WIGHT FANBOY!!!!
The Theon stuff was really moving. ;_;
Loved the Convo with Hound and Brienne re: Arya, and Brienne telling Jaime off. UNF.
Other thoughts:
Did they REALLY have Dany and Jon fucking WHILE emphasizing that they are closely related?! Whelp, that is a boner killer…
By the way I do not understand why the Mountain did not kill Jaime – are we meant to think the Mountain understood Cersei didn’t really mean it when she gave the order to kill him?
Jon’s real name is Aegon? Huh? Rhaegar’s first son was named Aegon and would have been alive at the time Jon was born so what? Is this just a reference to book!Aegon?
Tyrion really is in love with Dany… Poor Tyrion!
Are Tormund and Beric dead?!
If only….so many problems would have been avoided.
How did they set him up for a fall?
If they were on to him the whole time, they could have accused him at literally any point in the story. The totality of their proof was that Bran said so.
“He loved her. And she loved him.”
Absolute perfection. “The Dragon and the Wolf” was everything that I wanted from a Game of Thrones finale and more. One of my favorite episodes of the entire series, possibly even legitimate competition for “The Winds of Winter”. As time wore out, I kept thought “This is as great as it gets. It can’t possibly get even better.” And then it did! Over and over again!
Special acclaim to Ramin Djawadi’s score. “Truth” and “Army of the Dead” are masterpieces. I’ve been listening to and loving them all weekend, but hearing them in their proper context, accompanying Jon and Dany’s love scene and the fall of the Wall, respectively, they became even more transcendent than they already were.
I can’t wait to watch it again!
Mr Derp,
Obviously I didn’t mean the entire wall across the breadth of Westeros.. but a much larger section than Eastwatch. People were getting hit a few feet away, then a much more massive section fell.
THEN the army of the dead walked through to kill any stragglers.
It’s game over, man. Unless the plot needs him, in which case who cares about logic.
Viserion looked like he had super speed. Faster then normal.
noirgirl,
Don’t think so. When Tormand saw wall exploding explosion was moving awaway from him. I think he is on the bit left standing.
Onedon,
Except the babies were alive… the dragon was dead… big difference!!
Ginevra,
Elia and her children were killed in KL. Ned arrives. Kicks Jamie off the Throne. A wounded Robert arrives. Tywin displays the bodies to Robert. Ned & Robert have a MAJOR falling out over the murders (never really spoke again until Greyjoy rebellion years later), Ned leaves & lifts the siege of Stannis at Storm’s End, then to the Tower of Joy. Plenty of time for Lyanna to have heard about the other children’s deaths & named Jon/Aegon to fulfill the prophecy.
I also thought LF’s death was perfectly executed. The way he went on his knees and started crying felt very natural for a character suddenly unable to use any of his abilities he’s been using for his whole life. They really showed how desperate a character can be after realizing that after all this years of being safe, everything he has ever done comes back to bite him in the ass at the moment he would have expected to be one of his many other victories. He knew he was dead and Aiden showed it to us beautifully.
Chad,
I’m glad I don’t live in your bitter and jaded world. I loved it.
My take on this is that Cersei has a 2 part command with the Mountain. A “get ready” and a “do it.” That way she can leave herself and the victim a moment to manipulate or change the situation. But boy – tonight, twice the Mountain got the get ready order and for Cersei’s brothers who both said “go ahead.” Who knows why Cersei changed her mind. Maybe it was family or maybe the mere fact both brothers called her bluff.
Did Bronn and Pod just both leave King’s Landing? Neither were seen in the episode after leaving the dragon pit.
Really weird that the Mountain didn’t attack even though Cersei nodded at him.
Also, what’s up with the Greyjoy going for a nutshot? They should know Theon was nuetered
ACME,
Lackluster? Are you kidding? That was without question one of the best episodes of the series. Podeswa did a hell of a job.
And no, Sansa and Arya weren’t playing Littlefinger the whole time. Sansa fully recognized what Littlefinger was doing when he played the “jump to the worst conclusion” game, wherein it became clear to Sansa that Littlefinger had only Arya’s demise in mind (and that Littlefinger likely planted the note). And Arya’s lesson of “answer a question with a convincing lie” fed into that final scene alone between Sansa and Littlefinger, while Arya giving Sansa the knife was a clear “you know who needs to die” moment, given that it was Littlefinger’s knife. It was a very complex and expert bit of writing. Really well done.
And what EXTRAORDINARY acting from Gillen. He made me legitimately feel bad for him as he was about to be executed.
This episode is a clear award-winner.
Ginevra,
Oh dang, that’s a very good point!
Gfx,
2 out 3 aint bad!
Rillion,
Right? 🙂 I’m really glad the flashback happened!
This episode was the longest in the series and it utilized every second in order to bring every looming conflict to a head. And that’s why it’s one of the special episodes to me. It didn’t waste time doing anything. Nothing seemed to be for naught.
Theon’s character arc this season has been nothing short of incredible. Jaime’s relationship with Cersei is finally toxic enough for him to pull back from her clutches. Things that we’ve been wanting and praying for are coming to fruition. Infinitely satisfying. And although the Jon and Dany love affair will be polarizing to fans and people in the Thrones universe alike, I felt it was handled extremely well.
Mawk,
Omg I remember there was talk about George calling Tyrion a “villain” at one point in the past. Not sure during what season or even if before show. What I do know is that he is said to be whitewashed in the show and that is quite obvious because we all think of him as a total good guy. Think about it those who are sullied, could the Tyrion you know from the pages turn around and betray Dany and Jon?
Loved it. Thought the CGI with Viserion was awful though. The first time he swooped in looked horrible.
I think yes, and no.
I believe the tension between Sansa and Arya in the last two episodes was genuine. But Sansa is entirely aware of the games LF plays, as is Arya from her time with Tywin at Harrenhal. And when Bran gave Arya the knife, we had the first hint that the siblings were aware that LF was playing *some sort* of new game.
LF didn’t know when to pull back and let things play out, and continued to egg Sansa on. But this time she was on the lookout for his manipulations. It stands to reason the siblings would confer to uncover the truth. Ultimately I think Littlefinger’s inability to keep his sticky hands out of stuff was his ultimate downfall.
Aaaaaargh… so is Tyrion foreshadowing the deaths or something bad for Dany/Jon’s union??? Uuuuuuugh… can one thing go RIGHT for Jon/Aegon??
It’s was good to see Grey Worm in the finale… 😀
it would have ruined the season if he wasn’t. 😀
I am surprised Daenerys didn’t have a few unsullied with her at the Dragon Pit.
stefan666,
I agree with what you wrote, the LF “take down” was great. I especially liked that when Sansa was outing him on pitting sister against sister that she went back to Cat and Lysa! So glad Bran was there too. And Royce standing by Sansa like he should.
I was patient with all the stuff that was happening between Arya and Sansa in the prior episodes and trusted it was for a reason and I felt like it paid off beautifully.
Jack Bauer 24,
Cause, she never gave the order. The Mountain drew his sword in anticipation of the order.
The best strategy for the Night King now would be to hit Kings Landing first before venturing North. Would grow his army with all those Southeners and they have no way of fighting against him. While in the North he will be met with strong resistance.
That felt like a mid-season episode. Except for Viserion with his new rider, bringing the Wall down. 😀 What will happen to Tormund and Beric???
The end of the episode brought back the three families involved in this 8-season long “game”. The three Stark siblings back together, the remaining Targaryens together, and in love, but the three Lannisters apart, scattered in different directions.
Overall, The Spoils of War is my favorite of this season.
Gigoran Monk,
Gillen was great in his last scene. Littlefinger was a familiar face as he’s been there since day 1 and we liked trying to figure out what he had up his sleeve next. For that reason, I will miss him. Kind of not really lol. He had to go for the well being of our Starks. Plus REVENGE for Ned, finally! 🙂
You must be super quick to see that…. I just saw NK riding my Ice Dragon and was like Whao….
DireWolfHeart,
I didn’t take Tyrion as being jealous of Jon and Dany. I thought he was just worried and thinking of the complications.
Jack Bauer 24,
You know what? I was still riding a post-LF execution buzz throughout the ice dragon scene and didnt notice
Why can’t that romance end in ambiguity?
Don’t what to see something obvious happen.
Here are my scattered thoughts. Firstly, The Hound and Brienne meeting again and then talking about Arya made my fucking DAY! Loved their interaction. Cleganebowl was teased! I got so hyped! XD
Theon then made me cry my eyes out when he was talking to Jon. Love Alfie Allen. So many emotions…
Ah, I was so so happy they showed Rhaegar and Lyanna’s wedding… but then Jon and Aunt Dany banging made me yell at the screen. Bran needs an express raven right now!
My last thought is this: you just KNOW Tormund survived that! At least I’m hoping. They didn’t show him dying and I’m really hoping he’ll pop up out of the ice next season. I need a rewatch tomorrow. I thought it was amazing. Finally Jaime leaves Cersei (Lena was incredible btw)… finally! I’m pretty satisfied with the episode.
Also, D&D evidently forgot that they cut Mirri implying that Dany would never have another child. That only happened in the book.
WELL THAT WAS ICONIC!!!!! wow..Jonerys sex scene!!! Viserion as a ice dragon!!!! Little Finger is finally dead!!! UHULL! I feel like this was easily one of the best finales the show had!!!!
Jesus, if you’re going to ask 50 questions on this board, the least you can do is read the answers.
Jaime knew Cersei was bluffing and wouldn’t have the mountain kill him.
And maybe its possible that that one guy didn’t know Theon got neutered?
These answers take 3 seconds of practical thinking. Instead you are adding 50 comments to this board so that all of the more reasonable posts get lost in the shuffle.
Yeah seemed he would bite the biscuit, but didn’t.
Well the the costume department better be stuffed with warmer clothes for the Unsullied and the Dothraki.
Yeah I wondered that too, the Unsullied seem favored as much as the Dothraki.
She has them as escorts earlier in the season
Direcat,
I don’t know..he looked hella jealous..
I know firsthand that that scene was redone at the last minute…. so be a bit lenient… my sister is married to the head CGI man (DEAK FERRAND)… he was asked to delay his vaca to redo that scene at the last minute..
onefromaway,
Royce was a nice touch.
LF: I order you to escort me back to the Eyre!
Royce: Yeah right.
The devils at HBO better deliver the Targ baby they are promising.I have already picked the names.If you have to kill Jon at least let him hold his child first.Also play that Theon-Jon scene at my funeral.Best thing ever.Also Tyrion,dumb ass,Cersei would never agree to that in any world lol.She would always betray them.
Jack Bauer 24,
You’ve mentioned the cgi enough. No, it wasn’t perfect but still very good considering the difficulty of the entire scene. Even the biggest budget films have wonky cgi at times. I think the blue flame was the main thing that made it odd.
So viserion is not the ice dragon (if such a thing exists) since that was fire breathe right? Which is why it was melting thise massive holes in the wall.
FWIW, I didn’t think the undead dragon was breathing ice, I thought he was breathing blue fire (which in certain conditions indicates an even hotter flame).
I *was* surprised that the Wall fell purely from the fire/ice impact. All this talk about its magical properties (literally) fell by the wayside. I always believed the wall would fall at the end of this season but the dragon being the sole reason for its destruction didn’t connect with me.
I still loved loved loved the episode.
This was really amazing. Loved every bit of it. I just wish they’d have rescued Yara already. Scared for her.
Random question: do you guys think we’ll see Daario again before the show ends?
Night Knight,
I think you are right about the Night King going straight for King’s landing.
Both Bran and Dany had visions of the destroyed throne room in the Red Keep with snow coming down. Bran also had visions of a dragon flying over Kings landing.
Ginevra,
Thanks so much for posting these Ginevra!
Tyrion, on Jon and Auntie:
So Tyrion might be a bit disheartened because he had a wee crush, but I think he is mostly worried for especially his queen but also Jon Snow.
I thought for a brief moment that we were really going to get a major plot twist…that Cersei was going to be convinced and join the fight. I know, would have been totally out of character for her…which is why I thought it was going to be a huge twist to the ridiculous plan. Alas, Cersei went back to being Cersei.
Loved this episode! Glad Jaime escaped Cersei s perma-smirk
This season’s finale was ok. Unfortunately, the irrationality of the previous episodes continues.
Why would Daenerys, both of her dragons, her ally Jon Snow, and her entire council, including her Hand, show up in King’s Landing, especially when they know they are dealing with a crazy mass-murderer like Cersei and a psychopath like Euron who have giant dragon killing cross-bows and wild fire is still buried under the
city? It was an incredibly stupid risk to take when it could have been accomplished with just Tyrion, or Davos, the Hound, the wight and some Dothraki? They would have had the same result without the risk.
At Winterfell, while I enjoyed seeing Littlefinger die, there was no revelation as to how Sansa came to know all of Littlefinger’s betrayals. Obviously that indormation came from Bran, but I would have liked that explained.
However, even after witnessing Littlefinger’s “trial,” I still don’t see any credible reason for the insane Sansa/Arya fighting that happened the past couple of episodes. Assuming Bran told Sansa about Littlefinger’s treacherous acts, Sansa could have executed Littlefinger at any time after Bran’s return without play-acting with Arya; and, if she and Arya weren’t play acting, then it makes no sense as to why the death of Littlefinger just healed their relationship.
Viewers finally got what so many were hoping for, a sex scene between Daenerys and Jon. Unfortunately, the reunion between Pod and Tyrion had more passion. I’m sure Dany will get pregnant too. Yawn.
I agree with many who have commented that the CGI on zombie Viserion didn’t look very real, and the Wall coming down (partially) was not as exciting as I thought it would be, but it advances the story to its conclusion, so good. I’m just glad the Night King and his zombie army didn’t use those chains from last week to scale the Wall.
My favorite scenes were between Cersei and Tyrion ( Lena Headey is brilliant), Jaime finally growing a spine and leaving the wicked witch of Westeros, Theon growing a pair and marshaling the Ironborn to rescue Yara, and seeing Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married, although I don’t understand why Lyanna named the baby, Aegon, when Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon. I also liked that they began shooting King’s Landing with the blue filter they use for scenes in the North.
Can’t wait for Season 8.
Larry, Daryl and Daryl? 😂
Seriously. Lena was awesome. She’s had several astounding scenes this season (like the one with Ellaria in the dungeon). I kind of thought they’d done all they could with “complex Cercei” and this season would be one-note “evil Cercei”. But even in evil mode Lena manages to convey Cercei’s fears and insecurities and vanities and vulnerability and vengeance. Masterful.
She deserves an Emmy…too bad this season doesn’t qualify.
I would agree. Sansa lets LF know that she knew he was trying to divide her from Arya once she considered his worst motives for doing what he was doing. Then the jig was up. She went off to Bran and that was that.
When you listen to the charges Sansa makes, she knew or suspected much of it – but there is no way she could have known about LF swearing to serve than betraying Ned. The only way she could have learned that was speaking to her brother – who sat at her side throughout.
She knew that because of Bran; Bran confirms it to us as he explains what his visions saw LF do.
Sansa may have been sucked in for a time, but LF cannot hide from Bran once the 3ER is motivated to look. And ultimately, Bran was motivated. That was all it took.
She did. Jaime said “give the order then” and Cersei nodded at the Mountain and he pulled the sword out. Jaime then just walked by.
Jack Bauer 24,
oh yes, certainly
Glad to see you FINALLY sussed it out :O
The episode was well executed, but, just like Arya’s end of season 6, it showed that a whole lot of earlier footage was just a waste of time.
There was no real plot development in winterfell all season. None whatsoever. The scene we got today could have been part of episode 4: Everything in between was badly sold and meant nothing. We could cut the scenes and IMO it would make the series better. There were so many other things that could have been done with that time.
Still, now we know that ticket preorders are open for Cleganebowl 2019.
He finally got his comeuppance….. some will be pissed he didn’t suffer longer or harder but for me it was efficient….. perfect ending for him … begging and getting no mercy
OK that is the post where I stand up and clap. Well done. #EveryWightMeatInThisRoom
Hi-Fi,
Bet you Daario rides with the army from Essos.
Jon Aegom Stark Targaryen!!!!
Loved the finale!!!! Struck the right tone in yet another excellent season!
The closing scenes were epic! They will stay with me for a long time!
The Dragon and the Wolf.
John and John.
thi targaryen,
Perhaps, just my interpretation. I’ve never thought Tyrion was in love with her romantically.
Ian,
The one Euron is supposed to get? Would he betray Dany like that?
Don’t Dany and Jon have a bigger problem to solve first rather who gets the throne?
YES… THIS
And then this video also addresses a problem in the dragons being together.
https://youtu.be/E6XNRVKP-es?t=5m36s
So Tyrion takes another loss. He believed Cersei lol? How many botches is that for him this season?
Also, CLEGANE BOWL is for sure happening in season 8!!!!!!!!!
Quite a mixed bag, this season finale was… All in all, I found it lacking, though there were some genuinely great moment.
The great moments :
– anything involving the Hound because he is awesome ! From his decision to poke the zombie in the box to his confrontation with his equally undead brother, from his calling Tyrion a c*nt to his little smile at the end of his conversation with Brienne, it was all fantastic ^^
– the scene between Tyrion and Cersei. I had been waiting for their reunion since the end of season 4 and it did not disappoint one bit; the emotional “humph” was there and so was the ever-shifting power dynamics between them. These siblings love each other in spite of everything, including themselves, hence Tyrion’s willingness to sacrifice himself to his sister’s whim and her incapacity to order his death. Brilliant all around !
– Brienne’s character development. She is starting to recognise that an oath is neither a blank check nor a prison, that conflicting imperatives and priorities can matter more that honour and that blind allegiance is a form of cowardice. A remarkable and salutary shift in Brienne’s perspective
– the ice dragon… Shlocky yet awesome ! I love it !
– the revelation of Jon and Daenerys’s competing claims in relation to the Iron Throne during their sex scene. It was narratively relevant and set up the upcoming conflict nicely. Sexposition at its finest 😛
– Euron getting the f*ck out of there. It made me laugh ^^
– the dilemma surrounding Jon’s decision to tell the truth about his allegiance to Daenerys. It was both intelligently introduced and maturely argued. Both sides had convincing arguments and admitted flaws. Jon defended his compulsive truthtelling with aplomb and pertinence, I liked it an awful lot. It also, once again, reminded us how wrong Jon is about his “father” and indicated how impactful the revelation of Ned’s lying habits will be for Jon next season.
The not-so-great moments :
– the “romantic” wedding of Lyanna and Rhaegar… I might have regurgitated a bit in my mouth ^^ A married man with children, who left his wife and said children in the care of his psychotic father, marrying a young woman he had barely met yet already impregnated is not Disney material ! The writers better not try to sell us this bad-idea-of-a-relationship as a great love story; I expect more from their cynicism
– Jaime leaving Cersei. Now, do not get me wrong, I am glad he did leave and I thought the reference to trust and the worth of one’s word after too many lies (“I do not believe you”) was very clever and appropriate. However, as far as I can tell, Cersei is still supposed to be pregnant so Jaime’s decision to abandon her, ergo their child, goes against his most interesting development so far, namely his eager acceptance of and enthusiasm about fatherhood. Paternity, in Jaime’s worldview, is a symbol of responsibility, something which he spent most of his life running away from. Myrcella and Tommen’s deaths were supposed to have changed that but now… I am not certain.
– Littlefinger’s death was mostly anti-climactic, which it should not have been. While it was very interesting to see him so utterly lost and human (to the point of tears), that was about all the scene had to offer, along with Sansa’s ultimate acknowledgment that love and betrayal can walk hand in hand and that, in his own twisted way, Littlefinger probably did truly love her. The season-long setup was at best confusing, at worst dumb, and the payoff was expedited way too quickly. One does not simply kill Littlefinger, as a famous Sean Bean character would say ^^ There is so much more to take from the man than his life ! How triumphant would it have been had the Starks killed him after manipulating him into granting them access to his fortune and his network of informants ? Now perhaps, next season we will see “Littlefinger” (read, Arya with Baelish’s face) use all his power and contacts, possibly even double-crossing Cersei, in the Direwolves’ interests but how much more rewarding would it be were the real Petyr to be manipulated into doing so and then killed by the Starks ?
Overall, it was fine but not great. I think this finale really made me realise this season would have greatly benefited from an (or two) extra episode.
ygritte,
I doubt it.
At the point that interview was done, aCoK wasn’t even out. Tyrion was still very firmly Team Lannister at that time (he even fights against Robb’s army at the Green Fork) so, yes, from the Stark perspective he is a villain.
Tyrion Lannister could be on team Cersei Lannister now….
and probably is.
Ginevra,
No they weren’t. Ned left King’s Landing in anger with Robert b/c he wanted Tywin to be punished for the death of Rhaegar’s children (and Jaime to be punished for killing Aerys). Then he went to the Tower of Joy and found Lyanna as Jon had just been born. Jon was born well after Aegon and Rhaenys died.
Also, the annulment really annoys me. Tons of Targaryans have had multiple wives, there is no need to annul the marriage to Elia for Jon to be legitimate. This better not happen in the books! I’m watching you George!
Wight Teacup Piglets #TheOtherWightMeat
Yes! But it’s not absolutely clear when it began. My feeling is in Ep 5 when they have their first argument where it can be overheard and Arya tails LF and finds the scroll.
Ten Bears,
Great scene with the sisters reciting their dad’s words.
Yes, only that scene on the battlements seemed spontaneous and allowed them to act naturally. Everything else was planned. Arya strode into the Hall fully armed and confident. Maisie has shown such an array of emotions this season it leaves me dizzy. And Sophie did well too. The dragon pit was a bit of a letdown for me, but the Wight scene and the CleganeBro confrontation weren’t. I’m almost as happy about Jaime leaving as about anything else. Oh, and that finally two acquaintances caught up on Arya. And how nice Houndie and Brienne see eye-to-eye. And I-Viserion: WOW!
Ginevra,
Jack Bauer 24,
That was when Sansa told Littlefinger that Arya was a Faceless Man.
Glad you brought that up, Ginevra. Now we know why the sisters had that encounter with the Faces. So LF would know how she learned about it. And Jack, they assumed LF could eavesdrop, but with the door closed he couldn’t see the dagger handover. Arya did it totally silently, probably as a signal to Sansa to finally spring their trap.
Some fans are disappointed Littlefinger didn’t suffer more or go out like a badass, etc. He was an entertaining character and the prime mover of all GoT evil masterminds, so their gripe is understandable. Whether the sisters intended it or not, they humiliated him like Ned was humiliated by the false confession. Before the very Lords he had manipulated, Lord Know-it-All was reduced to a pitiful, sniveling piece of shit who tried to talk himself out of his fate and then went down on his knees to beg for his life. So unlike the dignity with which Ned died. Aye, and LF died by his own dagger, which he had stolen back from Ned’s desk. Tell Westeros: the North remembers, and Winter came for House Baelish.
My predictions for the last season:
1. Theon will kill Euron and free his sister. They will end up fighting in the great war near the end.
2. Cersei is going to die. There is no way she can live out the series. She has to die at the hands of Tyrion or Jamie, and both are heading north. Which means at some point the Night’s King has to force them south….
3. The North will eventually be lost. How far south the arm of the dead gets will be interesting. I can see them getting as far as Kings Landing…. Or perhaps to Dorne. Never know.
4. Some major twist is going to happen for the last season. Something with Bran or the Night’s King (or perhaps they are one and the same. lol.)
Benioff and Weiss didn’t explain the WF plot at all in the behind the scenes video. Some people say they were playing LF the whole time and others are saying they weren’t
In the cast commentary video above, Peter says it is just a bad idea for them to be romantically involved, too many complications, and “romances don’t end well” in GOT.
I think Tyrion has a spot in his heart for Dany but right now he is thinking about how much needs to get done and how many different groups need to work to together and Jon already complicated things in the Dragon Pit and now he could be doing it again.
But Jon needs to impregnate Dany so the Targaryens can continue and that would take care of the successor problem Tryion was talking to Dany about, so maybe Tryion will feel differently later.
Highly doubtful. Even Jamie isn’t on Team Cersei anymore.
I TOLD YOU SO
I TOLD YOU ALL
Y E S
[SPOILER] ARYA, SANSA, YEEEESSSSS [/SPOILER]
Pardon me. That is all.
“All over in an instant. Where’s the punishment in that?”
I doubt it. No way they would kill them off without us seeing it happen, or them having such a lame death falling off a wall, lol.
There’s 6 episodes left. NO way they have time for a Theon sub plot. Plus Theon has a few men and Euron will have the entire Golden Company and his Greyjoy fleet.
Exactly! I knew some would get the reference.
Jared,
ABSOLUTELY AGREE. The entire flashback with Lyanna and Rhaegal and Then Dany and Jon was absolut PERFECTION. The soundtrack also..wow! A MASTERPIECE
It qualifies for the Emmy’s, just not until next year’s awards.
I’m still bored to tears by Dany and Jon, but the rest of the episode was fantastic.
Between my brother and I, I’m not sure which of us hit a higher note of delight when LF finally got his freaking Winterfell Necktie. After it ended, I told him, very seriously, “My life is now a better and happier place because a fictional character is dead.”
Those Greyjoy were with Yara they should know about Theon
It qualifies for next year, I believe. Right? If not the full series category, then the miniseries, surely.
I agree he has a soft spot for her and loves her as a queen and a hope for a better world, just not romantically.
He sees all the problems ahead with their relationship. Even more so once Jons parentage us known.
i think Tyrion batted 0.000 this season
Did any of his “clever plans” succeed? I think not
Ice Dragon,
there must some reason why they had the NK used chains to pull Viserion out of the water; and not resurrect him like he does with wights. Why did night king touched him, it would explain the speed and blue flames. White walkers have increased strength etc
My favorite part was snow falling over KL/Jaime riding North/the music playing
😂😂
Jaime’s been on the wrong side of honorable most of his life, after he stabbed the Mad King. But he *wanted* to be honorable. In the show, we’ve seen his inner conflict and bravado and shame time and time again – in his interactions with Brienne, his chat with the Blackfish, his dinner with Walder Frey, when people would mock him for standing outside Robert Baratheon’s chambers standing guard, even when someone long ago had a book out talking about how there wasn’t much written about Jaime.
When we saw him standing on the map, I got the impression he was finally getting to do what he always wanted. Fight evil. Be honorable. He was in his element. Then Cercei pulled the rug out from under him. I think for the very first time, Jaime realized he could be the man he always wanted to be, or he’d be the man Olenna had described.
I loved it.
If he’d grown a pair, he’d have lost that fight 😉
If they were playing the whole time, then Arya and Sansa must have been filming those moments alone so LF could watch later. I’m thinking they might have run out of film. And so my thought is that they only conspired this episode.
Well I would say “take our way of thinking ” out of the equation and based on their way of thinking “its not so weird” they are just being truthful to themselves… as it was stated earlier in the series “we love who we love” … my guess is the new moray’s of the new world will be their biggest downfall…. traditions within the family are to be with their siblings or “Aunts”…. brothers and sisters… but the new “enlightened” way of thinking is this is wrong … so my heart is not feeling so good for Dany/Jon’s union…. I am praying Im wrong but am guessing this is the bittersweet finale GRRM is hinting at… ;(
lol Jack Bauer 24 is obviously trolling you guys and you are falling for it.
Anyway great episode. So sad it’s over for another year
I can’t believe LF is the only one who thought about it.They just need to get married.That would solve everything.I mean they will get there but seriously what’s taking them so long??lol
Yes, it will be entered for nominations in the 2018 Emmy Awards. It qualifies as a Drama since it exceeds the 6 episode minimum.
I enjoyed the Brienne/Hound reunion. I was pleasantly surprised that it was so friendly considering their last encounter was a brutal fight that left him for dead, and I loved how they were just talking and laughing together about how much of a badass Arya is lol. I’m hoping to see him reunite with Arya next season. That will definitely be interesting. A reunion between him and Sansa would be interesting too.
I loved this finale. Surprisingly short on action (though w/ Podeswa directing, that was a blessing), but not on emotions. The last 40 minutes or so were GoT gold. Thought the Dragonpit stuff was…OK. They salvaged it with good execution and small moments like the Hound smiling about Arya. The wight charging Cersei was genuinely well done, and that went a long way to selling it. My big complaint was it just went on too long. By my watch, over a half hour. And the payoff to the Sansa/Arya storyline was terrific. Hard to believe it could be 2 years before the show comes back.
I’m wondering though if the cutaway from the Tyrion/Cersei scene left the door open that he betrayed Daenarys because he found out about Cerise’s child. I’m not sold his stalker-isa peering outside Dany’s door was meant to be romantic. The scene last week w/them arguing about succession seems to hang over Tyrion’s motivation here.
I don’t know. The rules are slightly complicated between the dates and “hanging episode” stipulations. But I hope so. She deserves recognition.
YASSSS JAIME!!!
YASSS SANSA!! And Arya, too!
OK, now gotta watch it a second time. The hairs on my arms are all standing up, I’m so thrilled!
Joe,
Olenna killed Joffrey by following Littlefinger’s instructions. Without his material support and planning, she never could have done it therefore her agency was extremely limited. As such, her impact on the overall story was virtually non-existent compared with Littlefinger’s.
Gigoran Monk,
I may have expresssed myself poorly but I am not saying that Littlefinger’s death was not emotional ! There most certainly was something to it : the manner in which this controlled and controlling man started crying like an abandoned child, a lost boy when he realised none of his skills would save him, the desperation with which he looked at Sansa (whom he did, in his own pathological way “loved”) when she refused to talk to him in private and did not grant him her own affection in the form of forgiveness, etc. There was a real and truly interesting emotional weight to the scene.
However, said weight was solely brought by Aidan Gillen’s acting for the over-arching narrative context was lackluster : the lack of a meaningful setup for the “twist” to land successfully, the absence of consideration for the specificity of Baelish’s position and advantages…
The same scene, with the same acting on Aidan Gillen’s part, would have, in my highly subjective opinion, worked much better had it been the culmination of a season-long extensive manipulation. As it was, it felt, to me, rushed and almost incidental.
I think it is left open to each viewer to decide. Unless B&W, the directors, or actors come out and say when the game started, it is left to interpretation.
I am wondering now if Bran, Sansa, and Arya talked a lot more about LF and what to do about him when the three of them were first together in the Godswood. So, that would mean the plan was set almost from the moment Arya returned. But…I’m not sure, I’ll watch the season again and see.
In the end he’s dead… and that is all that matters in the end game!!
Gigoran Monk,
Oh thank for that! I’m fed up of the Nit brigade and it’s so refreshing to see subtlety in writing rewarded by insightful watching!
Did Cersei have a baby bump?
Watched it twice now. It’s 5.10am here, way past bedtime, so just some quick thoughts:
YAAAAASSSSSS!!!!!! LF’s chickens came home to roost big time. He has always been one of the biggest villains in the story for me and I have been waiting a looooooong time for this! Loved Yohn Royce’s “I think not” when ordered by LF to help him.
Loved the reunions, esp Brienne and Houndie. I never wanted them to fight each other to begin with.
Jaime FINALLY sees sense.
Acting in the dragon pit was awesome all round and loved Qyburn’s reaction to the wight’s hand.
Wilf Scolding (Ragger) really looks like Harry Lloyd in profile, although having what looked to me like exactly the same hair certainly helped.
Loving Euron’s brand of crazy. Someone called him “mad as a chair” which I really like too.
Definitely fave episode of this series 😀
edit: forgot Sam was really funny too.
Everyone who did was dead or captured or an enemy.
We’ll all dig into it more later but want to bring it up now. Cersei’s big plan to buy the mercenaries… the Golden Company. “20,000 men and some elephants too,” or something like that she said. With that we’re just back to where we were before this season really, minus one dragon. Does Cersei just think she can keep buying marshmallows to roast and win?
——–
Rewatching now…
People need to stop calling each other names and attacking one another. Your posts will be deleted when you cross a line.
The WF payoff would have meant more to me if the drama there didn’t come off as manufactured. Nothing about it felt natural. Other than that I loved every minute of LF on his knees begging for his life. Just wish it went down in a more coherent fashion.
Heck, you can be cryptic like M. Night with Bruce Willis’s character in 6th Sense. There was no “aha!” moment with what went down in WF this season though. Tis a shame. The acting was top notch. The writing? Yeesh.
SO GLAD JAIME IS FINALLY BEING BOOK JAIME FOR ONCE!!!!!!!!!
There is no way the Golden Company would take that contract.
They are aware of how bad ass the Dothraki are, and probably wouldn’t want to fight against all the Khals united.
They know how skilled the Unsullied are and would weigh that accordingly.
Along with all of that they have to face dragons as well.
Yeah, they are telling Cersei that they have other obligations and can’t help her at this time.
D&D openly come out and say that there will be complications and problems between Jon and Dany because of his parentage…. This sounds soo similar to them teasing the Starkbowl that never happened at the end of last season, that I now believe that there will be little to no problems between them lol. I suppose it’s only a matter of time before someone suggests marriage and everything gets resolved.
I would argue that Tyrion did well in the long game.
He succeeded in saving his brother (can’t wait until they reunite – might be awhile though since I think Jaime will go to Winterfell), and preventing Dragons from melting very many Westerosi. And, as far as he knows, he succeeded in Uniting all of Westeros together – but of course Cersei is a liar. No one knows that but Jaime and Euron, however.
Who were the fleet with him? Random Greyjoys who never heard Balon’s son was maimed?
The entire wall didn’t fall. Just Eastwatch. They could have run in the direction of Castle Black atop the wall toward the west. But yeah doubtful.
I do expect both Beric and Torment to make for Winterfell with what remains of the Night’s Watch since there is no longer a working wall to defend.
This was a fantastic episode. Just…wow. My personal acting awards go to Lena, Nicolaj, Aidan, Rory, Alfie, and Pilou.
The Dragonpit scene (and buildup to, and afterwards) was my favourite. All of those reunions. All of those first meetings. That first look between Tyrion and Cersei…the talk between Sandor and Brienne (!!!), Sandor and Gregor, Tyrion and Podrick and Bronn, EVERYONE. That wight scene. Damn. Just damn.
Aidan killed it (haha) – sad to see him go, and I feel LF’s cleverness was wasted this year. Stalled. Ah well. I knew it was coming.
Disappointments – Sansa. Sorry, you all know I’ve disliked her until this year, but I thought Sophie was quite good for the most part this year. I like the Sansa/Arya/Bran coming together as a family, but…..dammit does Sansa have to turn into a block of monotone wood when she’s being ‘serious’? I don’t know if this is Sansa, or Sophie, but it drives me crazy. I don’t buy the ‘smart and justified’, she just looks and sounds damn bored or annoyed. Maisie was somewhat better (and I love the ‘clean’ kill – no theatricality), but I’ve just been disappointed in how things have gone with them both the past 2 episodes. I was really hoping to go ‘yesssssssss!’ this episode, but it didn’t quite come together as I hoped. Oh well.
Bran and Sam I DID enjoy. Bran had some emotionally, urgency. I really liked their scene.
Dany/Jon – thumbs up
Rhagegar/Lyanna – surprisingly I didn’t care for it. Dang! Rhaegar’s wig was actually distracting.
The Wall – falling was awesome. NO on Viserion, not great, not awful. Tormund and Beric are alive IMO.
Gods, I loved the Dragonpit!!!!
She is going to die, but not at the hands of Tyrion or Jaime.
The show has not kept the prophecy of the Valonqar. There is a reason for that, and imo, that’s because we went off script when Cersei survived her trial by battle – when Tommen change the law removing the trial by battle and Cersei then blowing up the Sept of Baelor to survive.
That wasn’t George’s plan, imo. Not even close. He has been setting up so-called “Clegane Bowl throughout AFFC. He makes it quite clear through Ladt Taena that Cersei must choose a champion from within the Kingsguard. She will, by having Robert Strong appointed a Kingsguard (aka, The Mountain reanimated). What she doesn’t foresee is that the Church will choose Sandor Clegane as champion in the service of the Seven. And Sandor beats the Mountain. The little brother wins. That’s how Cersei loses her trial and then her head. And that’s the Valonqar the prophecy in the books refers to.
Cersei is not going to survive The Winds of Winter in the novels.
But the show isn’t the books. They love Lena Heady as a villain, as an actress, and for all the possibilities she brings the stripped down version of the overly complicated plot that is the show. D&D don’t have a complicated Dornish subplot and a false Dragon to act as enemies to Daenerys’ conquest in the endgame. And they don’t have Euron with a Dragon Horn and all kinds of Highgarden sacking crazy Ironborn either, sailing up the river.
“The Sept of Baelor?” Killing a swath of characters in one seasons ending scene in TWoW? Won’t happen; not in the books.
Face it: as far as the novels are concerned, we’ve been “off script” for a long time people. That doesn’t make the show bad and the books better; however, it does make them different.
I repeat: there is no valonqar prophecy in the show. Given that the show-runners had Magy the Frog deliver part of that propohecty, they could have given the rest. They didn’t. That has to mean something.
So is Cersei dying? Yes. But who’s going to kill her? Jaime? No.
Because after the Hound Kills the Mountain, there will be only one left on her list. And she’ll do it to avert a disastrous attack on Jon and Dany’s rear as they are desperately holding back the Undead tide.
Arya is going to kill Cersei; that will prevent the rest of the southern army from attacking Daenerys at the last moment – and avert disaster.
The Many Faced God, the only God there is, is the god of both Life AND Death. And the forces of the Undead have no part to play in that intended cycle. The Many Faced God will ensure the forces of the Undead are defeated. Arya has been his instrument all along.
Drogon seemed uptight and sadder this episode, and rightfully so. Rhaegal wasn’t even speaking and couldn’t get away fast enough. Ghost left for Bear Island long ago with Lyanna, sensing something wicked this way comes.
Why would he fall for Cersei’s lies?
Princessmara,
Yay for Theon! Alfie was so good in the scene tonight. He’s always good, but I really took notice again of him tonight. I hope he gets to return the favor and becomes a hero to his sister.
And when Jon told Theon he doesn’t have to choose, he’s both Greyjoy and Stark that totally foreshadows how Jon will feel about himself when his true roots get revealed.
Yes! I was like: Jaime is SO HAPPY right now!! He gets to be a hero finally!
Jaime: Yay! Cersei has changed and will be good queen Cersei the wise and we can live happily every after! Yayyyy!
Cersei: lol no. You’re so dumb. Like wow – I should just kill you probably.
Jaime: …my precious dream… ;_;
Ginevra,
Oh dang, that’s a very good point!
Sean C.,
no, they have to make sure the Vale are loyal to them first. If they don’t win over at leasts Yon Jon Royce before then they lose the whole Vale army.
LF loooves his peepholes and I assume at least some of the arguments they staged, guessing that LF has spies. But, some of it may have been legit tension. I don’t see a problem with either possibility.
That is not happening in the books. The Hound is nowhere near King’s Landing, and there’s no reason he would be there in service to the High Sparrow. That goes against everything the Elder Brother and the Quiet Isle are about.
The valonqar was omitted almost certainly because D&D thought it was too spoilery, as the obvious answer is the correct one.
If they are going to have aerial battles next year with dragon rider vs dragon rider, they will really need to improve the effects.
Loved the finale!!
I have tons of questions and am getting ready to start reading the comments but quick question:
I’ve noticed Tyrion’s growing love for Dany all season. His fleeting glances, longing and sad looks. I.e.: when he noticed Dany’s love for Jon when he left Dragonstone. He looked sad and resigned. Then his absolute desperation when he begged her not to go beyond the wall. He was madly in love with her and was genuinely sick that she might die.
And who could miss that look in the hallway during boat sex. Sadness? Resignation?
Which leads me to my question. Is he going to betray her?
Cersei left the pit and told everyone to basically bugger off. Tyrion has his private conversation with her, then they return to the Dragonpit and Cersei promises to join the fight.
But then she tells Jamie they are not going.
Why did she bother to return to the dragonpit, if the result is the same, she’s not sending her armies north.
Did she hatch some kind of plan with Tyrion in that room? Why on earth did she let him walk out of there?
Because I’m wondering if that look in the hallway was resignation and sadness that Dany doesn’t love him, or guilt because he is going to betray her.
Tyrion has always boasted of his loyalty to his family no matter what.
They’d know he was maimed but they might not know to what extent. Yara certainly wasn’t going to spread that detail around. They could know but all they needed to know was that he was weak. That would have been enough for him to dismiss them. And the guy he killed on the beach was the only one who had to be surprised really.
I have never bought The Hound = Valonqar. The prophecy says “when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar will wrap his hands around your neck“. The Hound defeating the mountain does not qualify, sorry.
Whoever kills Cersei in the books will kill her in the show. I still don’t know who but someone will literally wrap their hands around her neck.
Ohhhhh I forgot about that bit of info….. lordy this is going to be a LONG COLD WINTER…. yikes.
WOW! That really exceeded expectations!
The meeting was masterfully executed although I thought the repartee was better in Beyond the Wall. The face to face with the Clegane brothers was priceless. Who is coming for the Mountain?
The resolution of the the Littlefinger situation gave me cause to cheer. I’d been hoping for that since season 1. You go Arya girl!
Is Ser Jaime off to command the Lannister armies incognito? Or is he just off to volunteer to fight the AotD.
Wasn’t that Viserys that they used to depict Rhaegal? If that’s the case then it’s the cheesiest thing they’ve ever done. Maybe it was just the hair….
Tormund? Beric? Tormund has advanced northern survival skills and Beric well he must have been resurrected five times for a reason. I hope they can make it to Winterfell.
Do you think when Jon’s parentage is revealed Daenarys will think it a Stark ruse to claim the throne? I don’t think they are like that. Two Targs are better than one and if they DO make a baby that resolves the succession.
“That would have been enough for him to dismiss them.”
What do you mean?
Which, again, they could have done at any point. Nothing they did between whenever they learned about this and this episode did anything more to secure the Vale army. The only evidence was Bran, and if they were on to Littlefinger the whole time, they could have gotten that at any point.
Why should Tyrion believe that Cersei will do what she said she will?
Well, they just had a conversation which ended with Tyrion guessing Cersei is pregnant (after she heavily hinted she was). This was enough to convince Tyrion (and Jaime before him) that she actually cared about the future of humanity – since she was carrying part of that future in her body. Tyrion also would like to believe she is being truthful.
It seems like it’s going to be obvious relatively quickly that she’s gone back on her word, though, when no troops materialize and Jaime shows up alone at Winterfell.
thisgirlhasnoname,
I agree with everything you wrote (give or take a few sentences ^^). Yet, I am still puzzled by Jaime’s lack of consideration for his child-to-be, given that paternity is such a central part of his character development.
The scene involved a choice for Jaime to make. However, the choice was not simply between his allegiance to Cersei and his lifelong aspiration to be honourable. It also included the child, or at least it should have included the child since it is something that Jaime has learnt to accept and wants (fatherhood, responsibility, love) and that Cersei has (it is very much inside her). In this scenario, leaving Cersei’s side amounts to renouncing to the child-to-be and what it represents. I would have liked for Jaime to show that he took that into consideration… For him to turn his back on the woman to whom he devoted his entire life in order to do the right thing was momentous enough but how much more spectacular and tormented would it have been for him to choose the “cause” over his child ? Or, perhaps, in the name of his child ?
I think the fatherhood angle had great potential and was a tad disappointed it was never brought up ^^
Still, the episode had the scenes at the Dragonpit so yeah for that ! 😀
Ginevra,
No. Jon was born after Rheagers other kids were killed. Only Targs alive at the time of his birth were Danys pregnant mom (who fled to Dragonstone) along w Viserys. That’s why Ned asks Dayne why the kings guard isn’t with the royal family ( whatever was left of it). Maybe Rhegar/Lyanna wanted to honor the dead child? Or maybe Lyanna decided on name alone knowing Rheager would’ve wanted that?
Thanks to Sue and the crew at WOTW for a wonderful season 7 albeit a too short one. Looking forward to Season 8…
Lulus Mum,
Oh yeah, surreal bonus (of a sort) for those of us watching on Sky Atlantic. After the scene with Theon and the Iron Born, when T drops to his knees by the sea, it cut to a commercial break. First thing we see is a black and white shot of Stephen Dillane’s (Stannis) deadly serious face against a black background with the “Hello darkness my old friend” line from The Sound of Silence over the top. It was a split second of “Bloody hell! Stannis’s ghost”. I thought he was going to solemnly intone “fewer”, but it turned out to a trailer for series 3 of The Tunnel.
You definitely have a point – I too thought Jaime could be roped back in by Cersei indefinitely as the child would basically be a trump card. However this, I think is the reason. Jaime is a convert to the Northern Cause – it’s not families fighting is the living vs the dead. If his hypothetical (I think fake) child is going to survive then the dead have to be stopped.
I also think that Cersei realized that Jaime was of no use to her any longer which is why she didn’t try to rope him back in (quite the opposite). I am curious why she let him go given he’s likely to reveal her treachery to everyone – I guess she does love him a little, or at least would not become a kinslayer like Tyrion…
Why did Jon only say fire and dragon glass kill them and not valryian steel?
ACME,
I think Jaime’s statement of “I don’t believe you” encompassed everything, including the purported baby.
QueenofThrones,
OK that explains it, thanks for giving context to that comment by the author. It’s been in the back of my mind but couldn’t reconcile it with the current earnest, good hearted anti-Cercei Tyrion we see on screen.
So when is Jon/Aegon going to ride his dragon??? Im guessing he and Dany do not ride in on the boats but on the dragons…. at least that is what Im hoping for!!
Because Valyrian steel doesn’t kill wights.
He essentially did choose the cause over his child
Thanks God Jon’s name isn’t Jaehaerys, lol.
Even though nobody in Winterfell is particularly fond of Littlefinger or prone to defend him, I’m appalled that he was killed without any kind of concrete proof.
That wasn’t a trial, It was murder.
ghost of winterfell,
I hope the issues they write are more about succession and all that as opposed to them having major problems with relation because of our modern, real morals. Westerns is filled with marriages of relation, and they’re not twin siblings.
I just realized something. Cersei passes up the wine Tyrion offers her, which means they know not to drink while pregnant in Westeros. Which means the probability of ever seeing drunk Cersei again, no matter how bad things get, is extremely low.
What’s the point of ending the world if Cersei can’t be drunk while you do it?
Now I’m sad.
Jack Bauer 24,
There are no FB updates in Westeros. It’s plausible that one sailor from a hoard of sailors didn’t know the specifics of what happened to Theon. Or in heat of the fight, simple forgot. It’s not that serious.
Vincent Stark,
I actually didn’t mind Jaehaerys. I was sort of hoping for Aejon. That at least would have explained calling him Jon. 🙂
I think so too. Or at the very least, he no longer believes he’s the father if she really is pregnant.
If he forgot he would have realized it after the first blow…but he tried a second time…and a third…
….
I
KNOW!
ITS CHRISTMAS in JULy…. er… august…
Ohhh that’s an interesting one… neat catch if true.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
There will be no showdown between Cersei and Dany will not have a show down. Like her mother Cersei will die in childbirth and maintianing the Lannister gene pool the newborn will be dwarf like it’s uncle.
I am more of a Jongar guy myself. 🙂
I’m believe we may be over-thinking what Viserion “breathes.” If that was flame, there would be a lake where the wall collapsed. Instead, we see explosions. More likely the result of *super-cold*, understandably what an ice dragon would spew 🙂
Steel_Wind,
Good Post… even better than some of mine 😀
Arya has been his instrument all along…. so true
The House of Black and White in Season 5 is outstanding –
My husband was saying this…! That if his ice-breath is so cold it instantly reaches nearly 0 kelvin then you end up with some kind of relativistic expansion… or something. I don’t know I’m not a physicist but I guess it could work!?
There isn’t really anything to reveal, is there? She promised to march her armies up North and help. They aren’t going to show up. That’s a bit of a giveaway. She could have just promised to stay where she was with the same results, which was all they wanted anyway. The promise to join them was only to screw with the audience, and Jaime.
Really, she’s less dangerous down there than fighting with them anyway. If they defeat the Night King it’s not like she was going to let everyone catch their breath and march everyone back to their respective corners for a fair fight. She would have made sure everybody else was in front of her forces and attacked them from behind the second it was clear they had won.
It would have been a lot more interesting that way, with everyone trying to fight the dead and not trusting each other and maneuvering against each other. Jaime knowing her intentions to betray them would then really mean something.
Ginevra,
After seeing how much in love Jon and Dany are this is going to be pretty depressing to watch unfold.
A great finale and a great season. Regardless of what the whingers, nitpickers and trolls have to say on this thread, I had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER with S7 and enjoyed every minute of it.
The acting, cinematography, SFX and CGI was first rate. IMO, the best ever seen on TV and as good as or surpassing many blockbuster movies.
I have no problem it may be well over a year before the final S8 season is aired. The amount of traffic recently on this website has been overwhelming and neigh on impossible to keep up with. I much prefer the inter-season period when things are calmer and quieter and with less daily posts.
My biggest hope is that HBO really tighten up their security for this final season. There will probably be filming leaks; especially in Spain, but that doesn’t bother me. One can only speculate and not piece together from a series of photos of what may happen in a future episode. However, its the leaking of scripts which fucking pisses me off big time 🙁
I just couldn’t believe how accurate some of those episode breakdowns were which were posted in the quarantine area of the forum. The recent hacks into HBO cannot account for all the leaked information as I believe a lot of this was posted on Reddit months ago? Seems to me this has to be an ‘inside job’ and HBO need to weed out their leaker(s) and nip the problem in the bud once and for all!
Jack Bauer 24,
So Arya/Sansa set up LF the entire time? Were they arguing last episode hoping LF was listening?
I imagine it as in show method acting. It didn’t matter if Baelish heard or listened. The Starks had to *believe* in the ruse in order to convince Royce and Lord Baelish (RIP). Very meta.
The Winterfell plot takes place in the same window of space that Sam rides a carriage (that was the same carriage)
from Oldtown to WFthe entire continent…in winter…during…a war…🤔…🕳…past…Howland…RIP?Rrr..reed😓My point is they were using LF as yarn for a long long time.
I could not agree more. The lack of a meaningful setup diminished the emotional reward. Luckily for everyone, Aidan Gillen elevated the moment with his stellar acting.
I’ll have to go back and watch more carefully, but as far as I could tell, Tormund and Beric were still at the top of the wall when it fell, running to get away from the portion that was falling. I’m nearly certain they got far enough away and survived. Don’t need to worry about falling ice or the army on the ground when you’re still up top. Not all that much of the wall actually fell, maybe a few hundred yards from where it meets land. Much of it extended out to sea, but their outposts were directly above the castle and not all the way out there. You can easily enough run a few hundred yards given the five minutes or so it took Viserion to carve enough out to start the collapse, and they weren’t starting from the far edge.
Still leaves the question of where Gendry was, though. If he was down in Eastwatch, he’s toast. I think he was already headed to Winterfell, though, to start working the forges as Davos had originally planned for him.
QueenofThrones,
I agree. It was odd for neither Jaime nor Cersei to even mention their child-to-be… It is a massive development for both of them : him because it represents both a source of hope and a hurdle on his path to freedom from his sister; her because it defies the prophecy and gives her a sense of purpose (she has a dynasty to build ^^).
I was left genuinely intrigued by the fact that they both ignored the baby elephant in the room.
If it is so, it is very interesting because it highlights the degree of defiance and mistrust Jaime now feels towards Cersei. However, I suppose I would have liked for the scene to give an indication that this is what was implied. Jaime could have looked at his sister’s stomach while or after asserting “I don’t believe you”, so as to make the underlying meaning more impactful.
Instead, I felt Jaime chose to leave Cersei out of dejection and jealousy after she told him Euron still intended to marry a queen (namely her). It is faithful to the books, amusingly enough, but given how more complex the Jaime/Cersei context is on the show (especially now with a child on the way), the moment seemed a bit like a missed opportunity.
You guys, I think there’s something to Tyrion’s bringing up his worry about succession last episode and pointing out the fact that Dany is barren coupled with them leaving off his and Cercei’s convo with him becoming aware she is pregnant.
ACME,
I thought Pilou was walking off the set; so he had me fooled.
Ryan,
He’s gotta be trolling or he’s trying to force other users to reply and increase comment count.
Jack Bauer 24,
Youre such a bitter person. Seriously you enjoy complaining. Wheres Arya when you REALLY need her?
Good interpretation – I like it!
She’s not pregnant. Jaime even said he didnt believe her now.
Ginevra,
Yeah another Aegon hmmm
Ginevra, is there a vfx breakdown video like you posted last week for Beyond the Wall?
QueenofThrones,
Yes, he breathes ice at absolute zero lmao
ACME,
You think Jamie still believes shes actually pregnant? I wouldn’t at this point.
Jack Bauer 24,
He did? I missed it then, twice. But with regards to Tyrion and cercei’s conversation it looks to me, oddly enough, like he still craves acceptance from what’s left of his family. Cercei didn’t make the call to kill him when she easily could have. Maybe he takes that as her having some feeling for him after all. I’m just trying t make sense of the foreshadowing comments and the way he was standing there looking at the door of Dany’s cabin.
Steel_Wind,
Brilliant! Very insightful and completely plausible. They’ve made such a big deal about Arya’s list. What an ending to have Arya take care of the one and only name left on her list.
I can see this going in both ways too, however, I am leaning toward their plan being hatched in the Godswood with Bran. I just rewatched the scene where Sansa and Arya are outside talking post LF’s death and Arya says she would not have been able to survive what Sansa had. But, a few eps. back, in that scene where they are arguing over the letter and Sansa says to Arya that she (Arya) would not have survived what Sansa had then Arya has that snippy comeback. Well, that snippy comeback was acting, not true, and I imagine that was for LF benefit. He could have had spies, or been lurking around the corner or behind a door, and since he knew that balcony was a favorite hang out spot, he may have even drilled a peephole somewhere. So, the conversation in ep. 7 was a way for Arya to make sure Sansa understands that was just acting and that she really did respect Sansa for surviving. Does that make sense? It is late…. but, again, it is open to interpretation.
That was my feeling exactly. He really nailed his last scene on the show, and thank goodness for that. The way it’s been going this year, I was worried it would be a scene that would reduce the character to schlock, didn’t happen.
Also, a huge shout-out to the guy playing the Wight. He was fantastic!
Or maybe he chose the cause for his child. Because if the army of the dead isn’t defeated, what kind of world will his child be brought into, if he/she is born at all?
,could more time have been wasted on Theon? WTF was that 4 minute bs conversation with Jon? Are the writers nuts? We have to wait another year to see Jon’s face when he discovers that he has been in bed with his aunt??? With his morals his head will explode. This episode was a huge disappointment. Nymeria needed kill Little finger. Instead of that simpering begging he should’ve crapped himself. Just sayin’
And with 6 episodes left they think there’s enough time for a Theon sub plot?
Why was Tyrion standing outside of Daenerys’ and Jon ship cabin?
ACME,
Actually, before S7 began Cersei really was the deadliest of the characters on GoT, by far…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/entertainment/game-of-thrones/?utm_term=.c66148075fa1
ygritte,
I actually thought it was pretty cool he played Rhaegar.
edit nvm
👏🏻to Cersei’s warging Gregor. Tinfoil confirmed.
What I Loved:
-Dragon CGI
What I Liked:
-Some good conversations en route to the Dragon pit
What I Disliked:
What I Hated:
-Cersei and Tyrion
-Arya / Sansa fake feud?
-Little Finger pathetic death
-Dany and Cersei
The kidnap a White Walker and Arya / Sansa plot completely derailed the season (and series) for me, so it was an uphill climb for this episode to begin with.
So with that, it was tough to sit through the dragon pit meeting and not be bored out of my mind. It just seems so utterly ridiculous that they went to such great pains to present this WW to Cersei and what for?
I felt Dany was strangely submissive in the Cersei encounter, I really expected some fireworks between the two, but we really got nothing with Tyrion doing most of the talking.
And speaking of Tyrion, the whole Tyrion / Cersei dynamic this season has been another thing that has wrecked the series for me. First Tyrion sneaking freely into the Red Keep with Cersei’s knowledge and now that they’ve basically reconciled? What is Tyrion’s arc at this point? They’ve really cast him aside and I hate the decision to do so.
Still not sure why Brienne was summoned to and actually went to King’s Landing, other then she needed to have an encounter with Jaime.
Then we have the North, which has been a disaster for me since last season, and the bizarre faux feud between Arya and Sansa has only seemed to heighten that? I can’t help but feel a bit manipulated as a viewer that all along Sansa was plotting with Arya, or did she have a change of heart at the end? I have no idea. Either way it stunk.
And LittleFinger’s death was horrifying. Very symbolic of the direction the series has gone in. A series that used to be full of dark and grey characters and was about the awful side of human nature now seems to have turned into a Disney / ABC production — as if we don’t have enough of these fucking things already?
It’s just a little amazing to me that D & D could do such a beautiful job adapting the series in seasons 1-5, but just be completely clueless about what made the series so unique and great. They’ve essentially reverted GoT to any summer blockbuster.
I’ll be back later with my full season review.
Pigeon,
But not KsitN… 😉
That was Harry?
ACME,
As I noted in another thread, it was way too Keeping Up With the Starkashians. I’m glad it’s over, but for me, it was one of the weakest parts of S7.
Ginevra,
According to HBO:
“Pieces of the Wall begin to collapse, as Tormund and his wildings rush to safety. The ice dragon continues until a breach opens, wide enough for the massive army to walk through into the realms of men.”
http://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/episodes/7/67-67-episode/synopsis.html
Jack Bauer 24,
no, i justed checked.
Who is going to win an emmy for the best supporting actor?
Lena Headey?
Peter Dinklage?
Sophie Turner?
They all deserve to win an emmy or two!!!
Jack Bauer 24,
I don’t think so. I think when Arya handed Sansa the dagger, it was a challenge: Prove whose side you’re on. And Sansa ultimately chose the wolfpack.
Agreed. I assumed they bought the farm, but someone on Talk the Thrones mentioned that it would be pretty unlikely for GoT to off multiple significant (even if supporting) characters off screen.
While Tormund is one of my favorites, I don’t think he has a larger strategic role in the long run so I could see him being killed, but something tells me Ser Beric does still have a meaningful role. Don’t forget, Ser Beric was charged with bringing Gregor Clegane to justice by Ned Stark. Now that he and the Hound are buddies and Cleganebowl seems inevitable, he may still have an opportunity to fulfill that vow.
Agreed except the dragon cgi was not good. Viserion looked awful.
And nobody has an answer for the WF plot. Everyone is saying something different. When the audience is this confused it is not a good thing at all.
Dany/Cersei encounter was disappointing.
“I told you no one walks away from me.” After my second watching I’m so sick of Cersei I could scream. She totally and absolutely insulted Jaime to the core of his being, then threatened to kill him – She must have told the Mountain that if certain conditions came to be during her talk with Jaime, he should pull a sword on him, but not kill him. To do that, to believe so much that he was jelly inside and would cave to that, basically lick her boots, is indication that whatever love and respect she had for him has wasted away to nothing. Yet, he did ride away. OMG, AT LAST.
It can be noted that Tyrion called her bluff in the same way. Granted, it turns out that she lied to his face, big surprise, but the one small victory Tyrion got was that he challenged her to have him killed and she backed down on that. Poor Tyrion, he looked so proud at having “changed Cersei’s mind;” he’s going to be devastated that she bluffed him, and even more devastated that he believed her for even a second.
Littlefinger’s demise was long awaited, though it was kind of pathetic to see him on his knees. It wasn’t until Lord Royce refused to escort him back to the Vale that I was positive the girls had set the whole thing up in order to keep Littlefinger around, so he wouldn’t round up the soldiers and take off before he could be confronted.
Obviously, Sansa must have filled in Lord Royce on what actually happened with Lysa (Hey Oz, some justice for the poor crazy bitch). Yep, I felt a fleeting second of sadness for him, until I remembered that he outright sold her to the Boltons for his own advancement. His declarations of love for her mother all fell flat – no man who loves a woman as much as he says he did would lie to her about something that concerned the safety of her children, or something that would lead to a war. I was glad to see him go and glad that Sansa and Arya closed out on a happy note.
Jon and Dany, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Did you all hear me cheering? I’ll talk more about it in another post, and posts during the week. Just wanted to let my approval be known.
Sean C.,
I think this shows that Tyrion is human and prone to the same sorts of blindness that all humans are prone to, including love of siblings and eternal hope for their salvation. We, the audience, know there’s nothing left of Cersei worth salvaging; but Tyrion, her little brother, who must have seen a few (if not many) of her good qualities over the years, still lives with the vain hope that the good things he remembers might, somehow, be enough. Enough to bring her around, enough to fight the Night King, enough to keep on keepin’ on.
Logic dictates that he’s a fool. Human nature dictates that he will do as people have always done throughout history: hope for the best in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
It’s sad too. Peter Dinklage has so much talent and his skills are the only thing that is saving Tyrion for me. But the writers are doing everything they can to destroy the character and make him look like an idiot.
Why did Sam go to Winterfell and not the Wall?
Boojam,
RIIIGGGHHHTTT???
BOOOOOOO.
Jack Bauer 24,
I heard some people talking about this but I didn’t notice the bad CGI on the other dragon — maybe they ran out of budget?
ygritte,
It really looked like Harry Lloyd, but it wasn’t. Wilf Scolding was in the credits. As with Theon and Euron, they cast actors who looked very, very much like each other, especially when given the same hair.
Cersei was more frightened by a Wight then 2 dragons?
Lol!
Regarding cats….we all are aware that Ser Pounce is the Valonqar, right?
Did anyone notice Theon saying Yara is going to be doing away with reaving and raping? LOL. My goodness, OK D & D we get it, you can stop pandering now to the group of people who (incorrectly) attacked you for the Sansa scene in S5. Jesus Christ, grow a pair of balls.
Jack Bauer 24,
The Wight was charging at her and was inches from killing her. I think that eclipses the wonder and awe of encountering a dragon.
ACME,
Agreed, agreed, agreed, and agreed. It was one helluva ride, and mostly enjoyable, but it was hella bumpy and there were some unenjoyable dips.
Jack Bauer 24,
Instinct. That man’s been kicking other men in the nuts for 30 or 40 years. Knowing Theon was neutered and acting on it in the moment are distinctly different things.
Regarding the Wall – I’m going to get a little nit-picky here, which you guys will allow because it will be the first nits I’ve actually picked at, letting all the moaning about the timing, etc., go right by. And there seem to be quite a few people on here just picking away at what I thought was a really good episode.
Last week, while Dany was watching for Jon from atop the Wall, the horn blast sounded that a rider was approaching long before we saw Jon’s horse come out in the open. This week, the whole fucking dead army has filled the woods, and NObody notices until thousands are standing in the open? I really believe that Wall melted way too fast. Is dead dragon breath supposed to be hotter, or more super-charged than live dragon’s breath? Isn’t the Wall supposed to be like 100 feet thick or something? I remember that “block of ice” promotion earlier in the year, when all of you were complaining how long it took to “melt” the ice. We were mislead. It only takes a huff and a puff, and the Kingdom is screwed. Just small complaints, basically the effect was great, and the story has moved on.
Will they walk along the coast, sidetracking Winterfell? or will they head right for Winterfell? I guess we will know in two years. Gasp. Two damned years. Oh well. one more thing: Tormund better not be dead, dammit.
Wolfish,
Well, that’s certainly a unique name! They did a very good job if they wanted him to look close as possible to Viserys (for whatever reason) cause from the angles shown they could be twins. A lot of that probably has to do with having the exact same hair though lol
Boojam,
As I noted above, Wilf Scolding (long rumored to have been cast as Rhaegar) was in the credits.
Jack Bauer 24,
Maybe Sam wanted to eat a good old hot soup before arriving to The Wall and Winterfell is, conveniently, on the way to Castle Black? Or maybe he wanted to speak to Jon and help him fight WW(as he said in THE EPISODE)? What do you think, I’m very curious?
Jons#1,
Welcome!!! I might not be down with your theory, but given how many twists there are in GoT, anything’s possible…
Looking forward to seeing you again while we obsess during downtime between now and S8!
Lyannabanna,
Dunno whether Beric survived:
I wish they had given him different hair, not the same messy style that Dany’s brother had. It should have been longer, straighter, more silver, more well cared for. He was The Prince, a charmer who swept a young woman off her feet and out of a prior engagement. Viserys was a wild child, who hadn’t lived in a castle for years and years, who had no notion of style or royal life. His life was messy, his hair was messy. It wouldn’t have been the same style, Rhaegar lived years before Viserys, hair styles change, even among men.
Yet, they showed Rhaegar and Lyanna being married, they verified plainly that Jon was never a bastard and was the true heir to the Iron Throne. I can’t wait to see how it plays out.
firstone,
Peter has got one so Lena I would hope. Also I think Nickoleij (sp) is underrated.
How do you figure it’s cancelled? you mean for this year? Yeah, but there is obviously going to be a confrontation – Sandor guaranteed it by telling The Mountain that he, Sandor, was coming for him. I loved when Sandor told him that Gregor was now uglier than Sandor was. I was never a Cleganebowl fan, but now I am.
Hi, here’s my take on the finale.
About the Littlefinger demise, I do not know for sure if Arya and Sansa were playing him the whole time, but as soon as he mentioned that Arya’s motive was ultimately to become Lady of Winterfell, Sansa must have known he had been lying about her sister’s intentions. She knew her sister never wanted to be a lady. I did like how it was resolved in the great hall of Winterfell.
About the Dragon Pit scene, I enjoyed all the interactions but as someone said above I found it a little bit too long. Against popular opinion here, I did not enjoy the scene between Cersei and Tyrion, nothing against the acting but the writing seemed off character and too soft… On the other hand, I really enjoyed the Cersei/Jaimie interactions and loved that he decided not to forsake another vow.
Good episode overall, music was on point once again. And now our watch begins…
How do you figure that a man gets his throat cut and dies gagging on his own blood is “Disney?” There wasn’t a thing sweet, charming or hidden about that, it was a gruesome death, right out in the open. Not dark enough for you?
Youre dissapointing.
Sean C.,
That detail was in the episode. Were you refilling your Dornish red? (You’re forgiven if you were. I had to refill my own several times.)
Enjoyed that episode, it didn’t hit the heights of Winds of Winter but it was still good. The dragon pit stuff was well done, enjoyable watching but it was really the last 30/40 minutes where things get really good.
– Enjoyed the stuff in Winterfell, I even liked Sansa for a while. Sophie, Maisie and Aidan were brilliant.
– So now we know Jon is the true heir and we get to see Rhaegar too! I thought this scene was well done and it sets up next season nicely as I can’t imagine either Jon/Aegon or Dany will take this news well.
– The wall coming down was superb, RIP Tormund – you were one of my favourite secondary characters, shame you had to go that way. Also RIP Beric, would have rather you died last week than during the wall coming down. I sort of guessed this could happen with the preview of the episode this site ran earlier in the week.
– Sam/Bran was good too.
– Jamie/Cersei again very good, although I expected Jamie to kill her and I have no idea what she will do just sitting in Kings landing alone for the most part next season.
Minor eye roll moments:
– Dany arriving on the dragon
– Theon going on some crazy suicide mission to save Yara.
Yep,I’ve always thought so, though didn’t know how. I have my theories though:
Hi-Fi,
Well, we know Mel is headed to Volantis, so I don’t think we’re entirely done with Essos. Honestly, I’m hoping for a resolution where it turns out that Daario, having followed his Queen’s instructions and, really, having no higher goals in life, turns out to have been an excellent steward for a city in transition. Heaven knows, stranger things have happened in history.
Pigeon,
That was my thought!!! LMAO.
Pigeon,
Abso-bloody-lutely ! The scene was not schlocky in the least but so completely out of nowhere that it defused a lot of its impact. The acting was its saving grace.
Ha ha ! He is that good an actor ^^
He addressed that by saying that if the White Walkers are allowed to make it to Kings Landing, there won’t be a child. He’d rather show his responsible side by fighting to keep the terror at bay rather than staying with Cersei while she works to undermine the effort. And I don’t think he could bear Cersei calling him the “least intelligent Lannister.”
He’s changed from the pompous snot he was at the beginning of the series, but not quite so much. Even when he was a prisoner sitting in the mud, he took shots at Lannisters he thought were “lesser than” he and Cersei. Now, she has lumped him in the same pile as the “lesser Lannisters.” Always before, she has vowed her love and devotion: “Take your place at the head of our armies where you belong …” NOW she’s insulting him, with no blow job in sight to take away the pain. Nope, child or no child, there was no way he could stay. Brienne and her common sense and decency finally got to him.
ACME,
YES. To all of this.
(You just saved me two hours of writing. Because after all that Dornish-style duck with lemon and root vegetables, and Dornish red, and Dornish-style flatbread with hummus and harissa, and Dornish red, and Mother of Dragons spice cake, and Dornish red…)
Wolfish,
Thanks for the graphics, they’re great ! 😀
Though, I have to admit I am not certain I would put my entire faith in them. They did not include Robert Baratheon as one of Cersei’s kills nor did they add the many short men she got beheaded in her search for Tyrion. Given that, I am tempted to assume they may have forgotten a few of Daenerys’s victims as well, especially all the soldiers who died during the Battle of Meereen… The title for deadliest human is still contested, I think 😉
I agree. It did turn out that way which is a bit of a shame because the feud between the sisters had genuine potential. Its intensely personal and, dare I say, petty (to a degree) dimension had real humanity to it and its thematic purpose was relevant; in many ways, it was a battle for the definition of the Stark identity.
Sansa leans towards a more pragmatic and individualistic approach, detached from Ned’s legacy of occasionally counterproductive (in his case, even hypocritical) idealism and trust while Arya positions herself as the Vestal of a clan identity that is a temple to the Stark patriarch.
This fracture line is meaningful and raises interesting questions about the sisters : does Sansa care about a Stark identity at all ? Or the North and its independence for that matter ? How does she intend to square the circle of her personal ambition, the political situation in the North (the King in the North bent the knee to a queen he has a crush on without consulting anyone !!!), the urgency of the situation (incoming zombie apocalypse) and her affection for her family ? Does Arya genuinely still believe that Ned, Robb and Jon are flawless, like she did when she was ten ? What is her definition of “Starkness” (she claims it is her father’s yet Ned would have disapproved of many things she did) ?
Instead, what the conclusion of the arc gave us was, for all intents and purposes, the same fetishisation of the Stark mythos Ned implemented without any potent resolution. “The pack survives”…. Great ! But what if the wolves within the pack have good reasons to disagree with one another ? How does the pack remain united if not by unquestioning, blind allegiance to the “leader” ? Intimidation and death threats (like Arya did with Sansa) ?
I guess those themes will reemerge when Ned’s lie is revealed to the remaining Starks so there still is a chance for a relevant exploration but I cannot help but mourn the Season 7 missed opportunity… The ideas were there, at our fingertips, and they fizzled out 🙂
In regards to Tyrion :
All very true ! Tyrion does love his sister, in his own messed up, pathological way; and he probably refuses to lose all hope for her.
Furthermore, we cannot dismiss two rather important components of Tyrion’s personality, namely intellectual arrogance and guilt.
The youngest Lannister is remarkably intelligent and he knows it. He also knows that his intellect is above that of most people, including his siblings. While he is no longer as thoroughly confident in his superiority as he was back in seasons 1 and 2, he still does tend to assume he is right about most things and people. Here, he underestimated the depth of his sister’s determination and vengefulness, like he understimated the extent of the slavers’ prejudice and righteousness last season. For all his smarts, he is but a flawed man.
As for guilt, well, Tyrion is extremely prone to it. His self-loathing runs deep and can overcome him at any moment. In this particular case, he did send Myrcella to Dorne, where she was killed, and eventually he agreed to work alongside her murderers. So, not only does he feel responsible for the death of a niece he adored and whom he symbolically betrayed, he is also aware of the suffering Cersei endured as a result of it. An awareness that must gnaw at him given that, if there is one thing he always respected her for, it is her maternal love.
Shock Me,
/Dornish red out nose
Cersei’s fatal mistake : she forgot to “blow” the sting away ^^
Wolfish,
Ha ha ha ! My pleasure 😉
Weirdly enough, the Dornish red makes me type faster… Well, I believe it does. It either that or the Dothraki gin (yes, they do have gin in the hords !)
omg did you really serve all this stuff? It sound delicious, truly – I’ll take the recipes if you are so inclined. It will be something fun to do WHILE WE WAIT ANOTHER EFFING YEAR. ranting done, thank you.
But yeah, I meant it about the recipes, especially the spice cake. I’m going to raid the kitchen right now, reading that menu made me hungry.
So I guess Cersei’s miscarriage scene got cut? I assume they’ll reshoot for S8 to cement her descent into madness… if they even go there.
Hodors Bastard,
You’re aging yourself, referencing Ray Bradbury. 😉
Disagree. I picked up first time watching the conversation she has with Littlefinger earlier in the episode is her realising what is happening and that he is behind this.
Ice Dragon,
Even more than that. Ellia and her son Aegon were dead. Its quite likely that the news got to the Tower of Joy before Ned and his party.
Sean C.,
Agreed on this one. From that first scene in (S4?), I thought the reason the third part of the prophecy wasn’t included was its spoileriness for the Unsullied. As much fun as it is to speculate about all the other little brothers it *might* refer to, I still staunchly believe it’ll be Jaime or Tyrion.
But he didn’t specify that it would be he, Sandor. He just said that Gregor has known all along what was ultimately coming for him. Purposefully vague, I thought. Sandor sees things in fires now.
Jack Bauer 24,
Valyrian steel kills White Walkers.
Leuf,
LMAOOO!!!
Leuf,
Because its magic?
I do agree with you about the convo betwen Theon and Jon. Pure gold. And did anyone else think that Theon wanted the other guy to kill him? He had a look on his face after about the third time of getting punched like he was smiling. But then when he turns and beats the shit out of him its like he came back to being Theon.
Aegon the Icedragon,
He made a comment to someone last episode I think that he was in love with her. I think it was pure jealosy, or heartbreak.
BTW Varys was there but didn’t say anything. I found that odd.
Sansa’s word as Nobility at the very least that he killed Lysa is proof enough, as it would have been immediately after the fact back in the Vale
Not just that but conveying he conspired to kill Jon Arryn would have set the Vale against him even more
As for the Northerners, if they’ve got Bran backing them up then there’s a consensus to kill Lord Protector of the Vale and Northern Lords would go along with it and follow orders
There is the notion of possible war with Vale in such circumstances but Royce dislikes LF, is sworn to Robert Arryn and would have no issue with using Sweetrobins cousin seeing LF directly push his mother out the Moon Door as enough to ascent to the Northerners killing him and allowing Royce I suppose to become LP of the Vale
Pigeon,
LMAOOO!!!
The only named cat in GoT. One of those details that’s always interested me: no pets. The only cats we’ve ever seen or heard of are Ser Pounce or the ones Arya chased at Syrio’s behest, and the only hounds (other than my beloved Sandor) were Ramsay’s.
I’m taking hope in the comment Beric made to Jon last week about being the only two that the Red god brought back, and the Red god didn’t do that just to see them freeze to death. Beric will make it, he has something to do that the Red god wants done. Tormund being with him was lucky for Tormund. At least I hope so.
This,
Whole thing officially needs to be seen in Court
Essentially the same reason Oberyn didn’t just kill/poison the Mountain and Tywin, he wanted a confession in front of Court (trial by combat)
In this case they wanted it shown that LF/LP of the Vale was involved in murdering Jon and Lysa Arryn as well as betraying Ned
and the cats Stannis and everybody ate on Dragonstone before Davos brought the onions. The only reason I remembered that remark is because I have a darling cat and pay attention to cat comments.
The Bastard,
Like I said on a higher post, a plot twist would be the Night King hitting Kings Landing first while everyone is expecting him to hit Winterfell. There would be no resistance in the capital because they dont have the weapons. He would gain over a million wights then head north. And someone mentione Bran and Dany’s visions of a destroyed red keep with snow falling through.
Yeah it looked like they successfully ran to the side and were standing on the part that didn’t collapse
They are kinda needed as characters because they are there to be the front-person for a certain factional perspective, eg the Showrunners had to choose between Mance and Tormund and went with Tormund which is why he keeps escaping near-death experiences
Thronetender,
I’m not sure about that. He said something to the effect of “You know what’s coming for you,” which I took to mean a higher power. Sandor has seen the light, so to speak, and Gregor will have a far higher power to answer to. Which is fine by me: Given how terrible a crime kinslaying is to those of the Faith of the Seven, and how deeply inculcated that faith would have been in Sandor (despite his denials to the contrary), I wouldn’t mind him not killing his brother, no matter how justified it would be. He already has enough bad memories to live with.
lol, Jon Snow reveal was kinda weird, Bran just instantly jumps into a wedding flashback out of nowhere lol
Great stuff, great visuals but some great inter-character acting, eg Cersei and Tyrion
Sean C.,
Yes it happened in the show.
ACME,
WAAAYYY too much to absorb and respond to right now, given that I must be at work in approximately six hours. So I will say only this: I’m looking forward to a conversation between Tyrion and Sam. Because damn, between their domineering fathers, family histories, and expectations of each…
Yes, I too believe he is madly in love with Dany, has been ever since he bent the knee when she made him hand. I took his look as sad resignation that it was bound to happen, but he was hoping against hope that it wouldn’t. That’s why I think he so strongly urged Dany not to go to Jon’s rescue – I think he was rather wanted Jon to perish. He still didn’t fully believe the stories about the dead coming, or had no idea how great the peril was, and just didn’t want her to be with him.
I think there’s another facet to his unhappiness, too. All that business last week about whom she would name to follow her if she died – I believe Tyrion truly expected her to name him. Now, with her feelings about Jon, there’s no way Tyrion will be named.
Sean C.,
It’s been like 5 seasons of your endless inane ranting about the show on a dozen sites I read. I have to ask: why the hell do you keep watching and spend all this goddamn time talking about it?
Did you really see that? I had read it right after the episode, so when I watched a second time, I looked, but didn’t see them. Or am I being stupid because it’s so late it’s almost morning, and here I am writing about this episode still. I guess I’ll go to sleep. We have at least a year to hash all this out, and I’m already looking forward to cast sightings when filming starts. I can’t wait to see that Kristofer was sighted filming in Iceland. Then I’ll know Tormund lives.
Yeah and there’s some theories about the prophecy, while being made to sound like the “end of time” is actually coming to pass and she may be getting her period in the Dothraki sea
Secret wedding confirmed! I feel vindicated!
I’m not actually worried about Tormund and Beric – I assume Beric is alive for a purpose, even if he doesn’t know what it is, and I’m fairly sure that it isn’t to fall off a wall. Tormund as well. Do I don’t have that feeling of suspense, really. Hmmm.
I am really glad that Bran didn’t pop up beside Jon and Dany and tell them they looked beautiful. 😜 Although I liked that he smiled at Sam when he came in.
Thronetender,
I’ll write them up and post them (in response to this post) in the next day or two. The duck, flatbread, and harissa were from either innatthecrossroads.com or their cookbook, A Feast of Ice and Fire (with just a couple of minor adjustments); the spice cake is one of my (somewhat ahistorical) childhood favorites from The Joy of Cooking. Incidentally, I highly recommend the cookbook; every recipe we tried from it this season was absolutely lovely, and a huge hit with company. 🙂
Thank you! I should have known that the talented fans of this show and the books would come up with this. I looked on Amazon, it’s there, I’m going to buy it. Thanks!!
Yes I noticed it many episodes ago actually. Did you not pay attention to the agreement Yara made with Dany in which Yara was against it at first and said “that’s all we have left” then Dany said “No more” and both agree to make a deal.
I mean, by any logic making an alliance with Dany you’ll know there’s some things she does not tolarate.
Also, Really you’re salty about that? Strange kid.
Thronetender,
Yeah I hated that hair. He certainly didn’t look like a romantic prince. Speaking of hair 0 I don’t generally care about all the wig talk but man Snsa’s looked really horrid in this episode. But both are little nitpicks. Really enjoyed this episode.
Pigeon,
“I saw you fuck your aunt. You looked so beautiful that night.” – Bran in season 8 😛
Thronetender,
Pita and hummus recipes one of my friends made:
http://www.innatthecrossroads.com/simple-dornish-fare/
Velvet spice cake recipe from The Joy of Cooking:
https://butteredblasphamy.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/velvet-spice-cake/
For a caramel glaze, I caramelized one cup of sugar and then added 1/2 cup of cream and 2 tbps butter to it at low temperature. It took about 15 minutes for caramel to “melt” into the cream and butter, but after a little cooling it made for a lovely glaze for the spice cake.
Duck with Lemons (not on the website, and I am including my modifications)…
Ingredients:
2 lemons
1 duck, about 4 pounds
1/2 cup lemon juice (from the 2 lemons)
3 tbsp olive oil, plus more for oiling the duck
1/2 tsp table salt
2 tbsp honey
1 tsp ground chili powder
1/4 tsp white pepper
Kosher salt
2 lbs assorted root vegetables (e.g., carrots, turnips, parsnips, and leeks), cut into chunks)
-Preheat oven to 375 degrees F
-Juice lemons and stuff halves into duck
-Pour 1/2 cup lemon juice, oil, salt, honey, and spices into small saucepan
-Bring to a boil, then simmer just until mixture begins to reduce
-Rub duck with olive oil, salt with kosher salt, truss legs, and fold wing tips in so they don’t burn
-Brush on both sides with some of the glaze, and roast for about 45 minutes breast-up
-Remove from oven, glaze on both sides, add vegetables to roasting pan, and roast for an additional 45 minutes back-up (you will need to “flip the bird”)
-Remove from oven and baste a third time, then turn temperature up to 500 degrees F. Roast another 10 minutes or so to crisp skin (temperature of breast should be 130 to 135 degrees F)
-Remove bird to platter to rest; remove rack from pan and submerge vegetables into duck fat; return to oven for another ten minutes
-After allowing duck to rest, carve and serve with roasted vegetables; drizzle remaining glaze over duck and vegetables
(Tomorrow, I’ll be roasting the neck, gizzards and carcass in the oven before boiling them down into a stock)
1. When Sandor opened the crate in front of everyone and nothing happened st first, I was sure the captured wight had sonehow de-animated itsekf and was just a regular corpse again.
2. Just curious: Why was Bronn nasty towards Tyrion? Or was it just that he wasn’t really that funny this epusodr.
3. Will Captured Wight be eligible for WoW Awards Best Guest Actor? Because he totally nailed it last noght.
Lyanna’s dress was so beautiful.Loved it.
Interesting , I checked that was indeed Aisling Franciosi.
She is a good actress , with some of the briefest screen time.
Was a surprise to me to see that ‘vision-back’…. her appear.
I find it interesting that the Robert’s Rebellion is mentioned as a mistake.
i could see Robert waging that war even if he had known the marriage was legit.
In this universe wars have been started for much more outlandishly silly reasons.
Wow. Whew. Just finished watching. Now I need to re-watch.
How ever am I, how ever are we, going to deal with the wait?!
Thought that when the Zom went for Cersei it would be the Mountain to cut it in half, he had his sword out.
Also, if Euron didn’t have the excuse of the Zom , to leave, would he have thought of another?
By the by, the Golden Company, 20,000, that does not sound like enough support!
I think it is quite possible that the annulment is a show-only thing, a consequence of the condensation that takes place when the story is lifted from the book pages to the television format.
For Jon to be accepted as a trueborn Targaryen, we not only need Rhaegar to have married Lyanna; we also need some evidence that can prove to the people of Westeros that the marriage actually took place. We have discussed the nature of this potential evidence for years; we still don’t know what it would be (although many have suggested that Howland Reed could be involved somehow).
Now, assume that whatever evidence George R.R. Martin comes up with, it is something that D&D can’t use, because it would require elements from some subplot that they decided to cut, or something that’s more difficult to explain on the screen than it is to explain it on the pages of the books. But they still need to present some evidence, so that Jon still ends up as a legitimate Targaryen. So they decide to let Samwell Tarly come across these old records (records that quite surprisingly/conveniently none of the other maesters have realized that they exist), written by the septon who wed them.
So an old septon testifies about Rhaegar’s and Lyanna’s marriage. Problem solved … except for one thing: that would still be bigamy. And the faith of The Seven does not allow that. The septon wouldn’t have allowed that. So D&D introduces one more change – the annulment of the previous marriage. Now the problem is actually solved.
But this solution might not be needed in the books. Not if George R.R. Martin comes up with some other way of proving the marriage’s existence (plus someone to wed them who didn’t mind the bigamy).
I am wondering if the leaker mistook Lyanna’s birth bed for the miscarriage?
However the leaker totally flubbed on Beric , not only alive at the end, he supposedly died last episode (leak-wise) but he may have survived to next season.
Love the line, “Only one who needs protecting is the one who gets in her way.’
The Hound and Brienne smile wryly.
The name might imply that show Jon is absorbing some of the Faegon/ Aegon plot in the books…although in the book version of Dany’s visions in the House of the Undying she sees a vision of Rhaegar telling her that “His name is Aegon, and his is the Song of Ice and fire…” Most think Rhaegar was referring to the real Argon there, but maybe not? Maybe he’s talking about Jon? Maybe Rhaegar though the Prince that was Promised needed to be named Aegon because of…reasons?
Loved the snowflake that falls on Jaime’s hand as he finally decided to break from Cersei (clearly a homage to the books)
Don’t really know what some people are talking about? This was the most dialogue-heavy episode that they’ve done in years, and I thought very well-written indeed, best of the season, along with episode 7.04. True, episode 6 was kinda weak and episode 5 felt rushed, but aside from that the rest of the season was just fine. Ranking of the seasons for me:
1 > 6 > 3 > 4 (this season is a bit overrated IMO) > 7 > 2 (yea, King’s Landing scenes ruled, but frankly the whole of Qarth sucked, except the House of the Undying stuff) > 5
ash,
No, it didn’t. She left off after talking about mountains blowing into dust.
Boojam,
No he didn’t.The miscarriage was supposed to be there.They cut it.It’s in the outlines.And he said Beric survives and is last seen running for his life when the wall falls.
firstone,
i think he is
Yes!!! I meant to say last night but forgot that we now need to take everything in these videos and consider the fact that all of it is pure bullshit. D&D are no longer trustworthy commentators because they do love to troll us.
I do believe, however, that like Sansa and Arya, there will be some small conflict between Dany and Jon before Dany realizes she’s pregnant, which will make her death next season even more bittersweet. #motherofwolves
Well, the dragons are pure magic. The wightified dragon even more so. Thus, magic destroys magic. A good explanation of what happens to me.
It also shows why the Night King set up the trap in episode 6 – the Champions of Life were lured to the mountain looking like an arrowhead on purpose, not to kill Jon Snow, whom the Night King appears to want to live and escape a bit longer (which is why he did not take down Drogon first according to my theory about this purposefully set-up trap – wrote about it earlier in the comments for ep.6), but to kill at least one dragon.
The Night King simply needed this dragon in order to get through The Wall. Magic beats magic. Also he needed a wight/ice dragon or more in order to counter the fire dragons.
Incidentally, I loved this episode as I have enjoyed the entire season 7. A few brief comments…
Many appear to feel uncomfortable with the feelings developing between Dany and Jon. However, this is fiction. A TV series based on/inspired by a series of books. It is not a documentary, despite being documentary quality.
Many also appear to enjoy the death of Littlefinger, alternatively feel that this was too easy and weak an end for him. I personally have enjoyed the character – brilliantly acted and with superb storyline. Excellent! However, LF has ended his importance. He was a retro relic of ways of the pat that no longer are relevant in the world of Westeros. All his political scheming was indeed instrumental in starteng the period of chaos that has destroyed the Westerosi nobility and order. Therefore it is extremely fitting that he ends up with nothing on the floor in a puddle of his own blood, outwitted by the student who has become the master -Sansa and her sibling wolf, Arya. The only thing that would have made this exit better was if it had been LF who was behind the attempted killing of Bran in season 1. So while I really have enjoyed his character, his ways are outdated and thus this was an excellent exit. Like the real-life Kingmaker in the War of the Roses, Richard Neville, 16th Earl of Warwick, who must be the real-life pendent to LF, who was slain in battle, LF’s storyline had to end now.
Cersei is forgetting, that if the Night King wins, then he will have all those Dothraki, Unsullied and Notherners amongst his armies. This, I believe, is her greatest weakness. Megalomania and overconfidence. Combined with paranoia, she is on the path to become the mad queen many claims she already is. But she has not yet reached this stage. She is strategically clever, and ruthless to the bone – the way she removed all opposition to her rule in King’s Landing by blowing up the Sept with all her enemies within was proof of both cleverness and ruthlessness – but she does not really believe that the dead people can threaten her, not when 20.000+ mercenaries are on their way. So she may be in for a rude awakening!
It will be interesting to see how Jon reacts when he hears that he is not Ned Stark’s son! Not because of the aunt/nephew relation between Jon and Dany, but because of his honesty. The old maester of Targaryen blood in the Night’s Watch (Aemon? Forgot his name, apologies) said, that you had to chose between honour and family. Ned Stark repeatedly chose family over honour. E.g. when he took Lyanna’s baby and covered up the Targaryen link and when he confessed to treason in order to protect his daughters. Now Jon faces the same dilemma: if the truth about his true parents comes out, he will have to forsake the title as King of the North, as he is not the son of ned Stark. He also will have to decide what to do with his romance with Dany. And he will have to decide if he wants to become King Targaryen in lieu of Dany.
Dany obviously faces the same dilemma if she becomes aware of the bloodline of Jon Snow. She also needs to groom Jorah Mormont to become her general, because she really needs someone competent here. E.g. in her attack on the Lannister food convoy – if the Dothraki had attacked with a refused flank, like an echelon formation, and her dragon had come from the side instead of the front, she could have punched multiple holes in the Lannister defending line and thus saved the life of many Dothraki soldiers. Likewise, she might have conserved some of the valuable food instead of destroying it!
Finally, Bran. Some theorize that he is the Night King. Some that he must occupy the wight dragon or the mind of the Night King at a point. All are possibilities and thus he is one giant mystery waiting to happen. Cool!
We are in for a lot of war and mystery in the season to come. Cannot wait. I recommend multiple binge watchings of all the seasons so far as a temporary cure! Thanks so far, anyway to all connected to the GoT world.
Well. It ain’t ‘brief’, but at least there were a few comments :-).
[/ spoiler]
Hmm… not sure if Dany will die, but I can easily envisage a storyline, where she dies giving birth to the Prince who was Promised. This will leave Jon TarSnowGaryen holding their baby, standing in a ruined Red Keep next to Sam and Gilly with their baby overlooking a ruined Westeros and ruined King’s Landing after a final victory.
Or something like that.
Just a theory…
I thought so, too, originally, but Ygritte convinced me that Rhaegar (unbeknownst to us) believed The Song of Ice and Fire/TPTWP/AAR was supposed to be named Aegon Targaryen. When Elia gave birth to the first Aegon, he believed that this Aegon was TPTWP and so thus named him but sought ways to bring the third dragon into the world. When he met Lyanna and she became the intended mother for his third child, he realized that of course the song of ice and fire must be the product of ice (Lyanna) and fire (Rhaegar), and so he wanted this second son to also be named Aegon to fulfill the prophecy. This isn’t a definitive or confirmed explanation, but it’s the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment.
There is this video with some VFX:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx9dRL1BCCQ
And this one on cast commentary beyond the wall:
Woohoo! I hope, hope, hope that this is confirmation that Tormund lives on to make giant monster babies! Thank you, Lyannabanna!!!
One of my Facebook friends is always cooking up recipes from this GoT cookbook on Sunday evenings! And the book is $2 for the Kindle version. They look delicious.
http://a.co/j1tiL7t
Ha! I knew it sounded like the stuff Christina had been cooking up!
ghost of winterfell,
Hah, IKR? and yet people continue to fall for it.
I find it best to look at the story from a logical pov and come to conclusions on what may happen. More sensible than listening to half truths and teasers given out by writers.
Everyone associated with the show and their dogs continuously claimed Jon was dead but it was obvious they were bullshitting as him dying so early in the story made no sense.
The Stark conflict, as you point out, being another case in point. ‘Jon and Sansa will be at conflict’, ‘Sansa and Arya will be at conflict’ they said and so many viewers lapped it up even though it was obvious the story was heading towards a full circle- Stark children coming together as a pack again.
Now we have the supposed ‘Dany and Jon conflict’ to look forward to. Dany has spent her entire life thinking about and fighting for her family name and honor. Yet we are to believe she’ll get angry and jealous when she realizes she is not the last Targaryen? Jon-the guy who has never given two sh!ts about last name, status or power will do a 180 now? I find it hard to even imagine him coming to terms with his ‘real’ name. Its more in character for him to say ‘No thanks, I’m Jon Snow’.
My prediction? Jon and Dany learn the truth, both of them offer to give up their claim and support the other and thus come to realize that neither really wants the damnable chair.
thisgirlhasnoname,
I don’t know if anyone here already noticed and commented…but did you realize the NK and unVisy concentrated on the wall between the manmade structures that formed a V pattern up the wall; perhaps the construction of these over the centuries broke the magic wards on that portion of the wall, or weakened it enabling the power of an ice dragon too bring down that section. If this is the case the NK is 4-5 steps ahead of the GoT, he headed for EW and set up has many have suspected the downing and resurrection of a White Walker Ice Dragon, because he knew it would have the needed affect on that section of the wall.
King Podrick,
It’s audience pandering that doesn’t fit in with the world of the show. The Iron Islanders would never support a Queen like that.
Didn’t know the spoilers had supplements.
Thronetender,
Being dark is more about context than gore. It’s more than just audience pandering moments.
TeamTargaryen,
Rhaegar was played by Wilf Scolding:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm6251140/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t33
BranTheBlessed,
Dany absolutely does want that chair, though.
I think it’s been more ludicrous that he’s been A+ 100% right about everything for six seasons, personally. Having his schemes blow up in his face occasionally makes him much less dull.
KG,
You mean having his schemes blow up in his face 100% of the time while he sits off to the side, arcless, essentially reduced to Dany’s personal assistant. C’mon they could put a pile of horse manure on the screen for an hour after the credits roll and you’d still be defending it.
Except she did say that. She promised Dany that “the Old Way” would be off the books.
Do you actually watch the show. or are you just a troll?
KG,
Calm down. My point still stands whether it was said for the first time in last episode or in the last episode of last season (where I was admittedly tuned out because the show had gotten so bad).
True. But he probably wouldn’t have had the Northerners behind him if they didn’t believe Lyanna was kidnapped.
If “Prince that was promised” can be genderless, why can’t “Valonqar?”
After all, no one ever misses a chance to refer to Arya as “Little Sister.”
Yeah, and the plans that failed this season almost balance out his previous, laughable infallibility.
I am not certain there is a contradiction between the two propositions.
Your point about not believing the writers’ hype is very good and one I agree with wholeheartedly. However, the idea that the Stark children may be in conflict and the notion that their storyline, both individually and en masse, points towards a reconciliation are not mutually exclusive at all. If anything, they are complementary.
First, the conflict; then the overcoming and resolution of the conflict (ideally in the form of a compromise); and finally, the reconciliation and coming together.
The problem this season, in my highly subjective opinion, is that interesting conflicts were set up but they were never truly resolved. Instead, we jumped directly to the coming together, which fell a touch flat, again in my highly subjective opinion, due to them not being properly overcome.
The Jon / Sansa conflict centered around their disagreement over what it means to be a monarch, especially as a Stark, and the place of advisors in the elaboration of policies. Jon appeared to lean towards a one-man-government proposition, in which the idealistic ruler, guided by his principles, makes all the decisions while his subjects follow; conversely, Sansa’s stance was of a more collaborative nature, with a focus on the ruler’s reliance on his advisors and surrogates as well as the implementation of a “reward-punishment” system in relation to the nobility.
What was the resolution ? As far as I can tell, there was none. In the finale, we do not see the Northern lords’ reaction to Jon’s decision to bend the knee so we have no idea what Sansa will have to deal with and what she may be tempted to do. Furthermore, Jon’s approach in The Dragon and the Wolf proved to be exactly the same as in the season premiere : he remained guided by principles, and principles alone, and singlehandedly decided to bend the knee to Daenerys, without even consulting Davos, his right (and best) hand. The finale shows that no compromise between his and his sister’s position was ever found. The conflict was never resolved. It was simply dropped.
The same logic applies to the Arya / Sansa conflict. They had good reasons to disagree and feud. Sansa had good points about the fact that Jon’s absence from the North not only weakened his political position but also constituted, to an extent, a dereliction of duty on the king’s part; Arya had good points about an advisor/surrogate’s duty to demonstrate a higher-than-normal level of loyalty to be operational and useful. Their feud about Sansa’s letter was equally meaningful insofar as it related to the understanding of the place of fear and pragmatism in political decision-making.
What was the resolution ? Again, there was none, I am afraid. All we know is that the sisters are apparently alright with each other now, for some reason. Does Arya understand and accept that honour and loyalty should be tempered by a dose of realpolitik ? Does Sansa understand and accept that she is expected to stick by the king, even when she personally disagrees with him ?
Perhaps, those conflicts will be revisited and properly overcome next season… If so, it will be a bit late and rehashed, but at least it will provide both context and closure to the Stark reconciliation. Because, for the moment, all we got in terms of explanation is a cute but intellectually feable mantra : the lone wolf dies, the pack survives. Adorable but meaningless. What if the Northern lords rebel against Jon’s decision to bend the knee or wish to take away his crown after finding out that he is a Targaryen ? Do the Stark sisters listen to them and take action, possibly against Jon’s kingship, or do they get all the lords killed, in the name of loyalty to the “pack” ? Had the conflicts between the siblings truly been resolved, we would have an idea of what their reactions would be. As is, I have little to no clue as to what each character stands for right now which makes predictions fairly difficult.
That being said, I do agree with you in regards to the Daenerys/Jon alleged upcoming feud. I happen, like you, to believe that neither of them truly wants the Iron Throne (or any throne for that matter) so the question of their respective claim is unlikely to drive a significant wedge between them. However, the revelation that they are related is bound to have a impact on them as people and as putative monarchs.
Get on the bench with Jorah, Tyrion.
Predictions for Season 8:
Theon kills Euron, saves Yara, and the Ironborn fleet helps save the day.
Some kind of valyrian steel battle squad.
Qyburn puts dragon glass on the scorpion bolts.
Jon takes on the Night King like he challenged Ramsey.
KG,
People speculate about that all the time.
But there’s nothing particularly interesting about Arya killing Cersei. Quite apart from how easily she could do it, the point of the valonqar prophecy is Cersei overlooking Jaime as a potential suspect because of her hatred of Tyrion. If “valonqar” could mean literally any younger sibling, Cersei misreading it tells us nothing much about the character.
BranTheBlessed,
I find it best to look at the story from a logical pov and come to conclusions on what may happen. More sensible than listening to half truths and teasers given out by writers.
This is my approach as well. But the misdirecting hype and/or a failure to remember that main characters are generally true to their seasons-longcore values flummoxes many fans. If we recall that someone is a clever-smart impersonator like Arya, or decent with a chip on the shoulder like Theon, or sowing chaos but aware he might lose the gamble like Littlefinger, or being decent but wanting a title like Sansa, we can interpret and predict their behaviour. Jaime is an exception because he’s divided.
Boojam,
Love the line, “Only one who needs protecting is the one who gets in her way.’
The Hound and Brienne smile wryly.
Now that you mention it, this early comment foreshadows that Arya (and Sansa) would prevail over LF.
Flayed Potatoes,
Secret wedding confirmed! I feel vindicated
Congratulations on being vindicated. I too feel vindicated after weeks of saying the sisters were ‘playing’ LIttlefinger to trap him.
Ghost’s Lunch:
Sansa’s word as Nobility at the very least that he killed Lysa is proof enough, as it would have been immediately after the fact back in the Vale
They had to do it openly, convincingly, and legally. There was corroboration from Bran and Arya, who are nobility too. Bran may even already have a reputation as an oracle. But the sheer length of the litany of LF crimes and their pattern was also convincing.
Sean C.,
Would love to see Cersei become the Night Queen.
Sean C.,
Does she? You could see first signs of doubts last week- ‘I hope I deserve it’.
Again this week, she made no mention of her grand aspirations to sit the Iron throne. Instead we got ‘I have not come to conquer the North, I am coming to save the North’.
She’s gradually changing in her stance and it seems very likely she’ll offer to support Jon’s right to the throne just as Jon will offer to support her claim instead.
In some cases Honor and family can be intertwined. Ned was acting honorably by keeping his word to his sister to protect Jon at all costs.
Also, hasn’t he already given up the KitN title by bending the knee?
Getting ready to watch the episode… but from my brief looks on this thread, I think I will mostly stay away from a site when it comes to discussion. I may take a look at Oz’s thread and comments there, but this constant negativity this year is incredibly frustrating to me, and it makes me especially sad as I’m enjoying the series more than ever. I’m not even sure if I will be back next yer…
Stark Raven’ Rad,
Congrats to you as well!
Arcs that were destroyed this season:
Tyrion – his last remaining struggle was with his family and since that ended with a whimper, now he’s relegated to being Dany’s personal assistant.
Jorah and Dany Relationship – In the cop out of having Jorah be cured of greyscale followed by a relatively subdued reunion with Dany, his epic arc with Dany has been destroyed.
Arya – She lost any layers of complexity in last season’s trope laden escape from the House of Black and White and the final nail in the coffin was with her feel good Little Finger assassination plot with Sansa.
Jaime – More white washing of Jaime complete with his ride north at the end of the season.
Littlefinger – One of the biggest threats in Westeros goes down whining in lame subplot to appease sensitive fan base.
Brienne – Reduced to a nothing player, though I guess her burgeoning romance with Jaime is still on the table.
Sansa – Once one of the more tragic and interesting subplots, now transformed into a feel good story to appease sensitive fan base.
Dany – Almost zero substantial internal conflict for Dany all season long minus the Tarleys. Instead now we have all the heroes heading north in unity and potential faux conflict between her and Jon! Can’t wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Flayed Potatoes,
Omg hahaha
ACME,
I think the conflicts were setup early in their story. Sansa and Arya, in different ways, wanted to forget their roots and become something they are not. This path they chose continued to cause suffering and pain until they came to realize the importance of family and identity. This is what led them to finally seek out one another and reconcile. The story should have come full circle then but the writers in their haste to create suspense and drama attempted to force some tension and conflict. Little wonder they struggled to make it believable.
Sadly it appears they’ll go the same route for Dany-Jon, probably have them go against one another in a couple of episodes next season just for the sake of upping the drama. It’ll likely result in another botched job. Why? Because the natural progression of the story makes it illogical for a Dany-Jon conflict to occur at this stage.
Steel_Wind,
Another good book versus show plot is that in the books, The Others (WW) are an actual race of ethereal beings, with a civilization, etc. and GRRM will show this through the POV of a character in the next book. The NK and Queen in the books are a totally different beings than the clumsy D&D fan fiction creation story.
Saw this somewhere lol
This is Season 7 Episode 10 “The Black Dread”
Jaime accepts his fate; Jon learns of a potential ally; Daenerys convenes her small council for future alliances; Littlefinger is deceived; Missandei mourns; Sam is rewarded; Bran witnesses birth and death; Jaqen brings his plan into fruition; Gendry is acknowledged; Jorah fulfils his promise; Tyrion decides where his loyalties lie.
Not many here talking about my favorite scene of the episode and in my top 25 of the show, the Theon/Jon discussion, powerful with emotional resonance and no need for raised voices, it moved me to tears. The Jaime/Cersei and Tyrion/Cersei exchanges were powerful too, but I was expecting the latter confrontation but not the former, Jaime finally having enough of Cersei and heading north, alone in non-descript leather had me jumping for joy and shouting about fookin time.
Thank you
The narrative endgame was always for the Starks to terminate Littlefinger, of that there is no doubt, but I struggle to see what the nature or purpose of the multi-episode trap was, if there truly was one…
Most of the accusations mentioned in Baelish’s “trial” were clearly uncovered by Bran who, as demonstrated by his “chaos is a ladder” reference, has been able to explore Littlefinger’s past deeds at will since episode 4. Why wait episode 7 to kill the Mockingbird ? Why not execute him in episode 5 and be done with it ?
If we are to believe that the sisters had been “playing” Baelish since the beginning of their feud, I fail to see what they gained from it. The three-episode “trap”, if it really existed, was rather pointless for it played no part in Littlefinger’s ultimate demise and did not give the Starks extra leverage or power.
Nothing is easier to put together than a plot twist, nothing is harder to manufacture than a good one 😉 .
Plot twists are what make Les Diaboliques, Psycho and Rebecca such masterpieces. They are also what make The Village (and basically, the entire Shyamalan’s filmography with the exception of The Sixth Sense), Identity and The Number 23 such duds. A good plot twist always make perfect narrative sense a posteriori and retroactively alters the meaning of previous scenes. Unfortunately, I am not certain this is what we got in the Stark sisters situation.
For the “the Stark sisters were playing Littlefinger all along” twist to work, the writers probably should have provided :
– a motivation for the sisters to bother with the trap at all (something to gain from the ploy that they can not get in any other way like access to Baelish’s money or network of informants);
– a primary clue (faint indication that the feud is fake such as the sisters arguing in public or semi-public settings so as to be overheard by Littlefinger’s spies… Instead, they exclusively fought in private, with no credible eavesdropper in sight);
– secondary clues (elements that may be considered anodine initially but take a new meaning once the switcharoo is revealed : allusions to the sisters’ conversations with or visits to Bran, etc.)
There was no in-universe indication that the sisters were playing any game nor was there any in-universe incentive for them to do so. The only reason why so many of us suspected they would eventually reconcile and unite against Littlefinger was entirely meta-universe, in that we could guess this is where the narrative arc had to go for the story to continue. What we got was a series of seemingly genuine arguments between Arya and Sansa and then, out of the blue, somewhere between episodes 6 and 7, the sisters reconciled and agreed to double-cross Littlefinger in a manner that added nothing to the tale.
That is quite unfortunate for a real switcharoo, the sisters out-Baelishing Baelish, would have been utterly awesome.
I meant for Dragon and the Wolf. Is there no vfx breakdown?
Was Gilly not in the carriage with Sam?
BranTheBlessed,
She says she’s not coming to conquer the North because that’s literally true. Jon has already given her the North.
I didn’t say it was an innovative thought. Just one that seems more likely to be correct, given the current story developments.
When did he say he loves her?
Jack Bauer 24,
She was. Didn’t you watch the episode?
Ravyn,
I also thought the dragon pit was a little too long.
When the Hound opened the wight box but the wight wasn’t moving I was worried they had blown it. If this stupid plan went all this way and then they didn’t have the proof that was promised I was going to be really pissed. For a moment I thought it had died or someone removed it (i.e. The Lannister soldiers the hound talk d to when he first dropped the box off). Fortunately the wight was alive and it was exciting to see it nearly bite Cersei’s nose off!!
Samson,
Agree
Pigeon,
Big improvement on pre-Oberyn Mountain you mean. 😛
Ginevra,
Hello. My name is Walder Frey. This is my son Walder, his son Walder and grandson Walder.
Your point is?
Jack Bauer 24,
You commented that because there are many opinions about what happened in the Winterfell plot was not a good thing. Not necessarily. Writers can be very ‘on the nose’ about things, but often they choose ambiguity. and subtlety. And unless they clear up the ambiguity afterwards, it can be argued forever. (Unfortunately, D&D often comment on episodes and muddy the water further.) Also, some fans are simply more observant or accustomed to analysing things. Wimsey is a good example. Those people often perceive something others don’t. There were so many hints and symbols and warning signs in the Winterfell story that analytical viewers guessed Arya and Sansa were conspiring against LF. But more literal-minded people said what you see is what you get. In drama, that’s often untrue. And indeed Arya’s menacing behaviour, Sansa’s egocentric boasts, the fact that most of their more sensationalistic conversations could be easily overheard were only a few of the indications that the sisters were targeting LF. There was deeper symbolism too. So while we may never get a definitive confirmation, it’s very very very likely they were acting in a way to corner the wily Littlefinger and trick him into incriminating himself.
Onedon,
Babies were alive when changed. The dragon was dead.
Well there’s that… 😁
Still no explanation as to why Cersei gave the kill nod to Mountain and he drew his sword but just let Jaime walk by?
What was the point of handing the dagger to Sansa though?
See, that’s precisely it. The show went out of its way to set all of their conversations in places where there was nobody else around. The idea that they were performing for some unseen audience isn’t set up at all.
Again, unsupported by the narrative. Nothing they did in any way facilitated cornering Littlefinger. They could have achieved precisely the same result by confronting him immediately, if they indeed knew several episodes ago.
Since my interpretation of the Winterfell arc puts me among the aforementioned unanalytical, literal-minded people, I can only apologise for my lack of depth and understanding. However, I do seek to improve myself and would therefore love to be enlightened as to the subtleties and intrincacies I obviously missed 😀
If Sansa and Arya were plotting against Littlefinger since the beginning :
– why did all their arguments take place away from any potential witness ? They argued in a deserted corridor, on a balcony with no guard in sight, and twice in chambers (their own) with the doors closed. Furthermore, they were never shown to raise their voice to such a degree that their conversations could have been overheard by anyone further than a couple of feet away (where they, hence we, clearly could have seen him/her);
– if Arya and Sansa’s last confrontation was intended to be observed by Littlefinger’s spies or Littlefinger himself, why did Arya give her sister the dagger ? Such a move could easily have been interpreted as a peace offering which would have obliterated the pretence of conflict. If, conversely, the argument was meant to be overheard but no visually witnessed, why bother picking up the dagger at all ? Voice acting (ie. verbal threats and accusations) would have more than sufficed;
– if the arguments and barbs the sisters exchanged were always parts of a charade, why did Arya refer to one them after Littlefinger’s death ? The “you wouldn’t have survived what I went through” line would carry zero emotional weight for the sisters if they viewed it as an element of their play-acting, therefore there would be no point in bringing it back up later, especially in the context of a bonding and mutually forgiving moment for the sisters.
I am sincerely puzzled and eager to understand.
Which he did not do at all. He did not confess to anything nor did he do anything more incriminating as a result of the alleged “trap”.
Virtually all the accusations leveled at him during his “trial” had nothing to do with his Sansa vs. Arya plot (Lysa’s death, Jon Arryn’s death, Baelish’s betrayal of Ned, his engineering of the War of the Five Kings, the marriage deal with the Boltons, the lie about Catspaw’s owner) and were clearly uncovered thanks to Bran’s omniscience, not his sisters’ actions. The only Arya/Sansa-specific charge Littlefinger faced had to do with his habit of turning family members against family members which, quite frankly, was the least grievous of them all (and not a novelty, given the Lysa/Catelyn precedent). So I fail to see how Littlefinger was tricked into incriminating himself in any way, shape or form.
I’m going to go with the arguments were real and after Arya gave Sansa the dagger she talked with Bran off screen and learned more of LF’s treacheries. Really the only scenario that makes sense.
Still doesn’t explain why she had that conversation with LF about being upset that Jon didn’t seek her counsel about pledging to Dany. By that point she had to have already decided to have him executed.
ACME,
Thank you for spelling out how poorly that plot was constructed.
I keep reading people around the internet acting like the Arya/Sansa nonsense was all perfectly straightforward and obvious if you just paid attention.
In reality it was a confused mess, manufactured to fill airtime; to give Arya something to do this season that didn’t involve pulling off somebody else’s face after killing someone on her list; to put off Littlefinger’s inevitable execution; and to avoid (or at least put on hold) the consequences of Jon bending the knee.
The silliest part of it all is the (unintended? I really don’t know) implication that Sansa only twigged that Littlefinger was playing her after he suicidally advised her to think the worst of people.
If they were playing Littlefinger from day one, it wasn’t clear and doesn’t make sense according to what was depicted on-screen.
And if Sansa only concluded that she was being played by Littlefinger in their penultimate scene together – despite the contempt she’s treated him with this season, her repeated insistence that he is untrustworthy, and the obvious brutalisation she’s suffered as a result of his actions – then it does a huge, huge disservice to her character.
Basically what it comes down to is that Sansa apparently could’ve brought him before the Lords of The North and The Vale at any point during the season and accused him of selling her to the Boltons, killing Lysa Arryn and even conspiring to kill Joffrey if she fancied adding that to the rap sheet too, and the Lords of the Vale would’ve been absolutely fine with it.
Robin Arryn, who?
Apparently there was absolutely nothing preventing Sansa bringing Littlefinger to justice all along, since everybody took she and Bran at their words.
He would apparently have conveniently confessed to Lysa’s murder the very moment Sansa accused him of it too. That makes sense.
She could even have sent his head to Cersei with a note explaining how she’s innocent and that she kindly exacted justice on Joffrey’s killer.
But no, apparently we needed some contrived drama between Sansa and Arya that may or may not have been planned all along.
No, just the three I already shared. They are on here, which is where I steal all of them from. http://gameofthrones.com/game-of-thrones/season-7/episode-7
There will likely be some graphics stuff in “The Game Revealed,” but that will be 6 weeks from now before we get to the finale on those, I think.
The Bastard,
you’ve already seen the night’s king being created, and he wasn’t created from bran. This is him, it’s the same actor –
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/71/5b/9c/715b9c76a00ff3e74c10b7490d8ab78d.jpg
Shaun,
That’s what I was thinking too! When I mentioned it to my husband he thought, “No way!” But it would make sense and throw a wrench in the Norths plan to fight. Also, don’t you think the NK wants to sit on the throne? What does he care about the North!
To quote Lost he’s like a spy satellite he can see all but he has to know where to look…second Sam told him about it he zipped right there
Night Knight:
Saw this somewhere lol
This is Season 7 Episode 10 “The Black Dread”
Jaime accepts his fate; Jon learns of a potential ally; Daenerys convenes her small council for future alliances; Littlefinger is deceived; Missandei mourns; Sam is rewarded; Bran witnesses birth and death; Jaqen brings his plan into fruition; Gendry is acknowledged; Jorah fulfils his promise; Tyrion decides where his loyalties lie.
👏🏼👏🏾👏🏾👏🏼👏🏼
All of this 😃
But Bran told LF “chaos is a ladder” episodes before they outed LF in the finale. Bran had to of known where to look when it came to LF, so why didn’t he tell Arya/Sansa right away and prevent the mini fued they had?
KG,
I’ve wondered about that, but have never found a definitive answer to the question. Missandei would certainly know!
I don’t understand why anyone believes Arya and Sansa plotted against LF. There’s no evidence of that. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. What did happen, as far as one can tell from the season’s most poorly-constructed storyline, was that LF nearly succeeded in turning two sisters (who have never liked, understood, or respected each other) against each other. Arya, Stark to the bone, told Sansa exactly what she thought of her and what she might be capable of doing… but ultimately left it up to Sansa to redeem herself (or not) as part of the wolfpack. Hence, giving her the dagger. And Sansa ultimately made the right decision.
Sansa all but admitted to everyone present that LF’s scheme almost worked, in a moment of (for me, anyway) unexpected candor: “I’m a slow learner, it’s true. But I learn.”
Those aren’t the words of a master plotter. They’re the words of a young woman admitting that she very nearly fell for a true master plotter’s machinations.
But she still had that scene with LF after Arya gave her the dagger. Where they talk about Jon pledging to Dany and Arya being a FM. Then the next scene is the execution. So Sansa didn’t turn on LF after the Arya dagger scene?
I agree wholeheartedly with your assertion that the Stark sisters were in no way plotting against Littlefinger until the very last minute. However, I am somewhat intrigued by the idea of Arya challenging Sansa to “redeem” herself.
What is there to “redeem” ? A letter written by a twelve-year-old hostage in the hope it would spare her father ? Quite frankly, I thought the shocking nature of the letter was somewhat overblown and overestimated by the characters. After all, most of the Northern lords put their family’s and men’s safety above loyalty, honour and duty when they chose not to follow the Starks into battle against Ramsay. Seven hells, even Lyanna Mormont was, in the name of pragmatism, more than willing to ignore her House’s oath to the Direwolves until Davos threatened her with the upcoming ice zombie attack.
Would the Northern nobility really have been shaken to their core had they found out a twelve-year-old girl gave little to no consideration to principles when push came to shove ? I am sure it would have looked bad at first but not so bad as to jeopardise Sansa’s position on a fundamental level. The Northern lords may shout like jingoistic fools whenever the opportunity presents itself but they can be pretty down-to-earth when their self-interest is at risk. 😉
Furthermore, if Arya truly intended to “challenge” Sansa, why did she threaten her ? “Do as I wish or I’ll murder you” is hardly a valid test of one’s loyalty. If anything, it merely serves as a test of one’s sense of self-preservation. Even the most treacherous of individuals would stay “loyal” (read obedient) with a gun to their head, I believe. I know I would be extremely loyal under such circumstances ^^
So, if the whole exercice was meant as a test of loyalty, it was a remarkably poorly designed one and ultimately provided Arya with no reassurance whatsoever.
Also, the fact that Arya immediately associated the Northern lords expressing their displeasure with Jon’s rule with treason raises an interesting question, in my highly subjective opinion. We, the audience, were given no indication that the younger Stark sister investigated further into the lords’ complaints, even if simply to check whether they might be rightly motivated. I am therefore left to wonder what Arya’s definition of loyalty is… Does she view it as a form of blind and total allegiance to the “leader”, no matter what happens ? No matter what s/he does ?
Considering that the nature of oathes and loyalty has been a significant thematic thread this season (Daenerys’s conversation with Varys in regards to where his real allegiance lies, her talk with Tyrion about his conflict of interests, the conversation between Jon and Theon about the latter’s Stark/Greyjoy competing loyalties, Brienne’s brilliant “fuck loyalty”, etc.), I cannot believe this notion will not be revisited at some point. “The lone wolf dies, the pack survives” is a lovely, if dreadfully trite, line but it gives no indication as to how the pack is meant to remain united if legitimate disagreement is to arise between its components.
Should the members of the pack always follow their leader, unquestioningly, even if they sincerely and justifiably disapprove of some of his/her decisions ? If so, doesn’t it mean that the pack is nothing but a glorified dictatorship dressed up as a loving and protective collective ?
If obedience to the leader’s principles is paramount to loyalty, wasn’t Arya in violation of this rule when she threatened her sister (something she knows Jon would have disapproved of) ?
This storyline was so bizarrely constructed that it raised much more questions than it answered, ultimately 🙂
Ha ! Excellent point !
One of the few characteristics Lord Royce has always been shown to have is his fierce loyalty to the Arryns. This is the House he is pledged to and he is devoted to it. He has always been aware that Robyn is both weak and stupid, that much is obvious, yet he has served him and submitted to his whim constantly since the child became the Warden of the East. No matter how much Royce may hate Baelish’s guts, the idea that he would override what he can guess would be Robyn’s call (let’s face it, if someone were to go to the last Arryn and tell him that Littlefinger, his only meaningful father figure, should be put to death because his cousin Bran hugged a tree and had a vision that Baelish is a meanie, Robyn would laugh in their face) is preposterous.
Now, maybe Royce got a Brienne-patented “fuck loyalty” moment and decided to go with what he felt was right. But it was not set up in any way, shape or form. So the resulting deed is simply odd.
So, in front of Jamie, Cersei holds her belly.
In front of Tyrion, Cersei holds her belly.
When a dead man lunges for her, she does NOT hold her belly.
My bet is on not-pregnant. Her actions when the dead reached the end of his chain didn’t match her actions in front of Tyrion .
How come at the execution Sansa said it’s “not what she wants” but “honor calls for it. After everything LF did she didn’t want him dead?
Jack Bauer 24,
As Sansa herself admitted, she’s a slow learner.
For all we know, she impulsively ran to LF before considering all of the implications of the exchange with Arya.
And the fact that there’s such heated dispute about this is, alas, further proof of how badly-written the entire Winterfell story arc was this season.
ACME,
Because I’m utterly exhausted and must get to bed soon, I have no energy for a truly cogent response. In brief, I think Arya caught on to LF’s game before Sansa did, but realized that Sansa, for personal, political, and military reasons, still felt very much beholden to Littlefinger. But the game was only going to get more dangerous; either Littlefinger was going to win, causing a fatal split among the Starks, or the Starks were going to win, necessitating the disposal of Littlefinger. Ultimately, I don’t think Sansa’s “redemption,” in Arya’s eyes, was about the letter at all: I think after her initial shock, Arya realized that Sansa was as powerless in those circumstances as Sandor was when Joffrey ordered him to kill Mycah. Sansa’s redemption, as it were, came in being decisive (in not playing the political game ad nauseam, as Cersei does) and in setting aside both her lifelong differences with Arya and her profound discomfort with everything Tree-God Bran has become to finally, conclusively, fight together as a pack.
Hope that makes sense.
Weird that Jaime left Bronn behind.
Ginevra,
In case you’re still tuned into this thread, I “doctored up” this screenshot from a video of Tormen and Beric after Tormen was declared “safe” by HBO:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7zc7KAU0nSHaE1BZHZCZzQ4QlU/view?usp=sharing
The guy on the left is surely Beric (hood, eye-patch, etc. match the earlier view of him in the NW outlook station).
So I think that both of them managed to get WEST of the point where the NK’s dragon melted the wall.
Maybe we will meet them again in S8. huh?
It would be a twist but his army is at the wall and couldn’t make it all the way to Kings Landing without anyone noticing. I’m expecting them to take the Last Hearth early next season given the show runners were looking for castles.
James Hibberd from EW confirms that Tormund and Beric didn’t die however he hints they may not survive episode 1 on season 8 so I’m guessing things will continue at the wall.
Fully agree George this episode was very good overall, this season has been good overall with episodes 5 and 6 a little below the rest of the season. Seasons 6, 4, 3, 7, 1, 2, 5 from best to worst for me.
I watched that Mad Linda from Westeros org describing this season has rocky and eye rolling, she really is bitter and twisted.
It does feel like we are being set up for a Jon vs Nights King face off at the end however the idea of Theon saving Yara and killing Euron seems to fairy tale for my liking.
I’ll predict we’ll get a Nissa Nissa style moment with one of Jon or Dany. Sansa will end up as the lady of Winterfall. Jon and Dany will have some sort of conflict because Dany is going to be pissed, Jon may offer to step down as the rightful heir but will end up there a the end.
The one question I’m still asking internally is if Jamie is the Valonquar why didn’t he kill Cersei at the end of this episode? I am not expecting him to return from the battle in the North and definitely not to survive the series.
Jon Snowed,
There will be characters heading south next season, Jaime among them, I expect. Cersei will need heroes to interact with.
All that talk in the show about Beric being resurrected for a higher purpose wasn’t put out there just for him to die from The Wall collapsing. I would assume his final life/death will have more meaning than that. You all can dissect the footage of The Wall collapsing all you want, but Beric and Tormund are not dead yet. It would be foolish to think they are dead.
James Hibberd has confirmed that Cersei is pregnant having talked to teh actors on set.
Agree I was suprised that Bronn was not by Jamie’s side, I wonder where his story goes from here?
James Hibberd also confirmed both are very unlikely to be dead and hinted they will be in grave danger and may not survive episode 1 of the final season.
I agree there will be characters coming south once the final batttle with the White Walkers is over (guessing this is episode 5), but if Jamie does survive do we think he will just turn up and kill Cersei? All feels a little unpredictable but perhaps She uses the wildfire and Jamie dies with her.
Me too. My personal guess is that he will either:
1) Get killed by Cersei
2) Get the hell out of Dodge and go join the fight up North before he finds out that Cersei wants him dead.
Why did she let him be an intermediary and bring everyone to the pit if she didn’t trust him and wants him dead?
She answers that for you in one of the previous episodes when she asked Jaime if he plans on punishing Bronn for setting up a meeting without his knowledge or consent. Do you remember that scene? I think it was in “Eastwatch” a couple of weeks ago.
That’s all she says though. She asked Jaime if he plans on punishing Bronn. How exactly does that correlate to allowing him to be an intermediary on their behalf?
I hadn’t really thought about it too specifically until now. I already wrote that I’m tired of Cersei, but now she’s “alone” in KL. Since Lena and Jerome don’t do scenes together it’s probable that they have him hightail it outta Dodge early too. I can imagine the scenes they’re going to have to do to include Lena in the first couple episodes. Those are going to be fantastic for me. [sarcasm] I suppose part of it will be Euron returning and Cersei boasting some more that she’s so smart. You know… valonqar prophesy or not, I WOULD enjoy the NK storming into the Red Keep, easily dispatching the Mountain and destroying Cersei just as punishment for putting herself on “I’m The Best Island.”
She still has Mountain, Qyburn, and the Queensguard.
I didn’t mean it that way. They don’t count to me… and Gregor is now just a thing.
How come Jon mourned Ygritte’s death after she slaughtered many of his Night’s Watch brothers, after she killed many of the innocent Westerosi civilians he was sworn to protect, after she shot him with arrows ?
How come Arya emotionally connected with Tywin and did not tell Jaqen to kill him until it was too late ? After the Old Lion declared war on her brother and mother, after his grandson got Ned killed, after his daughter’s demand caused the loss of Nymeria ?
We do not always choose whom we “click” with. Feelings are weird, people are weird ^^
I am not entirely certain I can agree with you on this one, I am sorry to say.
Had Arya, after the initial shock, accepted that Sansa had as little choice in writing the letter as Sandor had in killing Mycah, I do not think she would have confronted her sister in the manner she did in her chamber (openly threatening to kill her and cut off her face). I believe she simply would have talked to her, even argued with her if need be. Death threats are not the language of someone who understands where the other is coming from or who intends to rally them around; they’re the language of someone who is driven by anger and intends to cause fear.
Therefore, I sincerely doubt Arya became aware of Littlefinger’s scheme earlier than Sansa.
From what has been portrayed on the show, Sansa does not really have “lifelong differences” to set aside; Arya does.
Arya is the one who appears profoundly resentful of her sister and their shared past. She resents that Septa Mordane praised Sansa but punished her, she resents that Sansa was snobish and wanted to be better than everyone, she resents that Sansa was the “perfect lady”, she resents that Sansa did not accept Jon, etc.
When Brienne told Sansa that Arya was not dressed as a lady the last time she saw her, Sansa smiled and said “no she wouldn’t be”, thereby expressing a newly-found form of fondness for her sister’s lifelong rejection of feminine attributes. When Arya, overlooking the Winterfell courtyard, reminisced about her sister’s embroidering habit, she sneered and used it as evidence Sansa was not a Ned-approved Stark…
The animosity between the sisters was never mutual. Even in the books, where the relationship is demonstrably more nuanced than on the show, Sansa is, for the most part, shockingly indifferent to her sister. That is, by far, the worst characteristic she inherited from Catelyn, namely the ability to freeze out or dismiss people she does not care for (cf. Cat and Sansa’s treatment of Jon). It is quite chilling to see how few references to Arya there are in Book 1!Sansa’s chapters, especially when compared with Arya’s frequent allusions to Sansa in her own version of the tale.
Arya resents, Sansa ignores. That’s their respective M.O.
And this is what gives closure to the final conversation between the sisters on the Winterfell walls, ultimately. Arya let go of the feelings of inadequacy (and associated anger) that plagued her for most of her life when she admitted that she chose to be “something else” because she could never be a “proper” lady and received Sansa’s approval for her choice (“you’re the strongest person I know”).
Both sisters acknowledged (big step for Sansa) and accepted (big step for Arya) each other’s path. 😉
I’d be amazed if the Rhaegar/Lyanna marriage is not coming from GRRM, not fair to blame D&D for this one and there is set-up for it from the 2nd book too.
Bronn and Pod walk into a bar….
I suspect that Bronn and Pod may be ‘made examples of’ to spite Jaime and Brienne, but I really hope not.
Oh, I have no problem with Rhaegar and Lyanna getting married. For Jon’s real lineage to have a genuine impact (aside from his ability to connect with dragons) on the story , he needs to be legitimate; this way, he is in the line of succession for the Iron Throne (conflict with Daenerys) and officially not a Stark but a Targaryen (conflict with the North).
The marriage itself is not a problem for me at all; however, the manner in which the show portrayed it is. The “he loved her / she loved him” narration, the vaguely preraphaelite Disney-worthy visuals, etc.
He was a married man who needlessly humiliated his wife in public and abandoned his children at the hands of his maniac of a father; she was a sixteen-year-old who gladly received his attentions in front of the aforementioned wife and took no issue with his decision to kickdrop his family. Furthermore, they both stayed in hiding when her father and brother were murdered by his dad and the entire country descended into chaos and destruction.
Therefore the show’s depiction of their wedding (two innocents so victimised by a vicious world that is just too corrupt to accept the purity and perfection of their “lurv” that they have to seek shelter in the welcoming bosom of Mother Nature) makes me laugh my head off. Or barf uncontrollably, whichever comes first ^^.
But then, what do I know ? I think Romeo and Juliet are an appalling and idiotic couple while many people seem to find them extremely romantic so… ^^
THIS. And I think it only really occurred to me in truth during that scene. Even robot Bran seemed incredulous it was all essentially built on a lie. While it is probably too simplistic of me, I can’t help but think, “Can you not write a bloody LETTER???” Like “Hey I don’t love Robert, I secretly married Rhaegar so there’s nothing to be done to prevent it now, sorry. We’re doing well.” There would have still been fallout, of course, but the entire dang war and years of assumption, killing, and bad feelings could surely have been curtailed….augh. Lyanna is no one to be admired any more than Rhaegar. I wanted to knock their heads together like coconuts.
I hate Romeo and Juliet.
It is not simplistic; it is mature ! Lyanna most certainly should have left her family a note informing them of her decision to join Rhaegar. But it is actually a touch worse, in my opinion…
Ad nauseam, we are told that Lyanna was this amazing “free spirit”, so different from the regular girly-girls (the implication being, of course, that traditionally feminine girls are “lesser than”). She enjoyed masculine activities, especially riding (in trousers, no less !!!), and she used a sword once ! So that must mean she was special…
However, had Lyanna truly been this remarkable “free spirit” she is said to have been, I dare hope she would have had the cojones to tell her family of her choice. In person. To stand for herself and her decision. Hells, she even would have had the courage to tell Robert Baratheon himself ! But nope, she ran away.
I cannot shake the feelings that we, the fans, give Lyanna a free pass for her appalling behaviour because she was a self-righteous Stark since the Stark name is the ultimate Westerosi trump card, it seems.
Feel like demonstrating unparallleled hypocrisy by threatening Cersei to reveal her children’s true lineage while keeping the secret of Jon’s ? Want to marry your daughter to an obviously sociopathic royal prince ? Fancy committing treason by changing the wording of King Robert’s will ? Don’t worry Ned ! As long as you keep banging on about Stark exceptionalism, no one will mind.
How about refusing to negotiate with the Lannisters to free your sisters ? Or failing to inform your generals of your battle plan’s endgame and yelling at them when they fail to abide by it ? Or breaking your promise to the Freys ? No probs, Robb ! You’re a Stark who loves being a Stark so no one will judge you.
And so on and so forth… As long as a character gets misty-eyed over their Stark surname, they can get away with any questionable behaviour in the world and Lyanna is no exception to the rule. ^^
Ha ! Nice to meet a kindred spirit on this one 😉