“There’s only one war that matters. And it is here.”
“The Dragon and the Wolf” is written by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss and directed by Jeremy Podeswa, who’s been on premiere and finale duties this season!
Check out the official photos here!
Geoffery: I can’t believe it’s finale time already! Where has this season gone? I can’t be the only one who’s psyched to see how this episode will play out, in our longest ever finale there’s sure to be some time for great character interactions. Plus Grey Worm’s gonna be back, although I’m already worried for him…
I keep talking about Theon but I can’t help myself, I’m so stoked about his story line in this upcoming and final episode of the season. Alfie Allen always nails Theon’s scenes and I’m really hoping we will get to see a lot of Theon action tomorrow. It’s so damn exciting.
No, no I am not ready. I am absolutely fine with Season 8 being delayed as long as possible, as I have issues with letting go of things that I love. Lol. 😂
Woohoo!!!! Woohoo!!!
I’m wondering what Cercei’s plan is. Is it something combative or is it more than that, I come up with a couple of ideas.
– She’s ging to try to kilo them, a red wedding kind of plan.
– maybe she’s got some demands to team Danny and Jon need to do, maybe killing the mountain (because she thinks he’s invincible), maybe Daenerys needs to kill tyrion for her eyes. Or maybe she demands Daenerys to kill one of her dragons. Got is always about dillema’s.
– tyrion told daenerys in episode 6 that if Cercei wouldn’t cooperate they could always burn kings landing to the ground. If you combine this with the foreshadow we got in the house of the undying. Maybe Cercei’s plan isn’t to defeat Deanerys but to win over the common people. If daenerys burns the red keep down. Daenerys destroys her reputation. And Cercei could tell westeros that Deanerys is like her father the Mad Queen. This one ties perfectly with Daenerys arc this season. Burning the Tarlys for instant.
And how is Sam involved in this episode. Will we see Ebrose again. Will we see missing people from last seasons like Daario. Will we see Young griff maybe as the leader of the golden company. I’m hyped.
Ginevra, when I eventually move to PEI, you must come visit and I’ll take you to Green Gables and the Haunted Forest. 😉
Gahhhhh how is it the finale already!!!!
I get a strong feeling a main character or possibly 2 will be killed off tomorrow. Why do I feel like it might be Jorah, Tyrion or even Dany. Looking forward to finding out!
Ginevra,
The only appropriate reaction 😀
I’ve been thinking, how will the ‘magnificent 7’ get the wight to the other side of the wall since the wall was meant to keep out WWs and/or wights?
Interesting ideas. The YG idea made me chuckle. 🙂 Thx.
Why do I have a Daznak’s Pit & Red Wedding anxiety regarding this scene? I’ll be looking for hidden archers and assassins with daggers in the shadows!
Best episode title this season! I’ve been excited for the Dragon Pit summit ever since it was first reported on. Having all the main characters in one scene is going to be too much to handle! Hope the dialogue is strong enough to balance out all of the elite characters.
Hodors Bastard,
I always hope that young griff will be put in. I always had the feeling that in the books he would end up with Sansa. (In the books he is meeting Ariana maybe history will repeat itself. Set aside a Martel for a stark). And that he would end up on the throne. And that danny and Jon would die. The vision that they wanted will be executed but they are not there to witness it. Would be bittersweet ending.
They’re all going to die in the Dragonpit and KL. Our main characters for the climax and series finale will be just Arya, Sansa, Bran, Tormund, Beric, Sam and Gilly. 😛
If feels like this will be a pretty action-free finale. I imagine they’ll be a lot of “grandstanding” and smug talk going on for tension but it seems like that could be he extent of it.
It stinks that the season is over tomorrow already. I do think they could have easily added more (non-filler, pertinent) things to make this a typical ten episode season, but there’s nothing we can do about it. I’ll just have to enjoy what there is and then hope that we all have plenty to discuss throughout the long with for S8.
Daenerys is going to be looking like the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms – The first of the her Name
I want to hear Tyrion say “Welcome Home my Queen”
I am looking forward to watching the Stark sister’s story and where Littlefinger’s plan goes… and what Sansa is really thinking. Come on D&D make it good.
Ayra telling Sansa that she could become Sansa by taking her face could be a foreshadowing of Arya using that Faceless Man skill with some other familiar face…
Missandei – Brienne of Tarth – Theon – Bronn – Gendry – The Hound/Mountain could all be major players in the The Dragon and The Wolf
Who is going to be in the final season 7 scene?
Jon? – Daenerys? or the Night King
Clob,
If everyone at the Dragonpit does get fried in the next episode and Gilly turns out to be the Prince(ss) Who Was Promised, I’d be happy with the twist.
I hope that they end the season on a note that leaves us with enough to speculate about to fill up the long space between tomorrow and season 8. I hope it’s not all so predictable that we’re left waiting a year and a half just to see events that are easy to anticipate.
Regardless, I’m excited to see the finale! Enjoy, everyone.
The wight was already on the other side at the end of last episode. I’d guess that Dany flew Drogon over the wall and landed on that side with the wight still aboard.
I’m looking for a really evil plot twist where Dany dumps the wight in front of Cersei and Cersei says “Holy crap! How many of those are there?” Dany tells her “20,000 or so” and Cersei says “Okay, I’m sending my troops north!” They shake hands, have a drink and go back to running their kingdoms. The rest of the episode is the Stark girls bonding while Sansa cuts down one of her fancy dresses to fit Arya.
Oh my goodness, yes!!! I’ve never been to Canada, but PEI and Montreal (because I have a friend there and the culture) are right at the top of my list for places I’d be thrilled to visit! The Lake of Shining Waters would be dreamy.
My firstborn is Anne-with-an-E. I wanted to name my second Elizabeth for Elizabeth Bennett (Pride & Prejudice), but my cousin (who is exactly like Sansa!!!) had already taken that name. So Emma got named for one of Jane Austen’s lesser known, lesser liked heroines. She’s a lot like her namesake, I must say, but we love her anyway. Well, Thomas and I love her. Anne, less so.
I am wondering to see if Euron plays a major role in this episode, perhaps by trying to take everyone out? His absence (other than seeing his ships) since episode 3 is intriguing.
And it occurred to me that at the Battle of the Frozen Lake, we did not see any zombie giants. And we have not seen Castle Black or Edd since EP 1. Is it possible that the main army of the dead is marching on Castle Black, with the NK joining them on the ice dragon?
So hyped to see how they wrap up this season and trying to avoid anything about Episode 7 for one more day!
This is the season finale. No major deaths will be so no GoT. I’m thinking LF ( ofc ) and Yara – maybe that’s the reason for the grim faces of Tyrion and the rest on that ship?
They should have brought Beric and Bran to the Dragonpit, so they have a full set of people who were dead or at least as close to it as possible, and then came back. But then the poor wight might not make much of impression…
So nervous. In just over a day GoT will be gone for possibly up to 2 years if it doesn’t premiere until summer 2019.
Also, I don’t see anyway how the finale can salvage this botched season. Especially with Podeswa directing. Just unfortunate all around.
🙁
kklin,
Shift Alt X Beyond the Wall youtube review says if you carry a wight through the wall it doesn’t die… and the Hound was carrying the wight
Yet to lose a king/queen this season, if the pattern from previous seasons is followed.
By common consensus, in this corner of the Shire, the bottles of bubbly named Littlefinger, Cercei and The Mountain are already chilling and boxes of tissues, just in case, for Jorah, Greyworm/Missandei, Tormund (the list goes on).
Davos was at the Wall. If he can’t smuggle a wight or two, then nobody can.
Won’t they end with the Wall coming down? Of course, I thought that last year since last year was “The Winds of Winter” and this year is the first half of “A Dream of Spring.” If the fall of the Wall doesn’t happen tomorrow, there won’t be much time to dream of spring.
Here’s to hoping the WF story line ends on a high note. They’ve been so ham-fisted with the R+L=J stuff this season I’m finding it hard to care about him actually finding out who he is and also I don’t even thinkit will happen this season now. He and Dany have to sleep together first so D&D can turn it into some dramatic Oedipus nightmare hellscape.
Fairly easy prediction: Season will end with Viseryon knocking down the wall and the hordes pouring into Westeros.
Oh, you’re serious! I was simply chuckling that some rando leader in the GC would be named Griff. That would be funny to me. 🙂
As far as YG in the books goes (my thoughts):
I’m hoping for a cold open, hopefully the Tourney at Harrenhall, hence the title.
Jack Bauer 24,
Dude, come on… Your pessimism is annoying.
JohnW,
He’s also the same guy that criticized the entire season for having a “limited budget”. But at the end of the day it is his opinion.
So we did finally get Beyond the Wall’s description:
What will the finale description be when it is released next year?
Hah! Will Jon ever uncover the truth? I’m hoping he will rise above. Rhaegal needs a buddy.
Question: If Qyburn gets killed, will the Mountain disintegrate?
This wins the internet today!!
Hodors Bastard,
You’re probably right but still we don’t know the twist grrm is cooking up. Hopefully WoW is out soon. But if he’s the son of Illyrio why is JC with him. And why is JC convinced he’s the real eagon. We have to wait till WoW comes out.
PS how do you insert a spoilertag?
Jack Bauer 24,
Why are you so depressing all the time? Even the worst episode of GoT is still amazing. It’s one of the few shows that’s this excited and where people talk about what happened. And I personally liked the directing in dragonstone. I think he will do fine in the final. Look at the trailer it looks amazing.
If Jon does find Truth, I hope she’s still in her scabbard and not in his belly! My greatest hope is that Jon will find certain truths and then rise with Rhaegal and fall at Winterfell!
I’m fond of the theory that the wights have been warged, and Qyburn isn’t a warg, I think. The Mountain acts quite differently, as well. So no, I don’t think he’d fall if Qyburn did.
And don’t forget: the hound meets another cunt.
Qyburn is really Emperor Palpatine. He wont die easily.
Kevin1989,
I’m just wondering why is he watching this show anyway? I mean if you have nothing good to say why bother watching?
Regarding spoiler greyscaling, just go to the shaded box at the beginning of the comments on this page and follow the instructions.
Lol. He does bear a striking resemblance…
The Dragon Pit interests me greatly–so many character dynamics possible. I expect the WWs to come south of the Wall, how I don’t know. I hope Jaime leaves Cersei and Dany and Jon get together, and we learn fully who Jon is, and Sam gives Gilly credit for her find. Most of all, because I’m a Starkist, I hope welearn that the sisters were indeed ‘playing’ Littlefinger together and that with Bran’s help they fully succeed because the Pack needs to survive. Especially before LF can pull any nasty surprises, even posthumous ones. And I’d like to see the Hound wolfing down some chicken after the summit’s exertions. I’ll pop down to the chemist’s to stock up on anxiety meds, however. And I hope we’re all reasonably happy when we reconvene after the broadcast.
tyjon,
Oh like that idea of a cold opening – the Harrenhall tourney, want that a lot.
I’m just wonder if Tyrion know Cersie will not believe the NK situation beyond the wall that the wight will not convince her. Is he hoping that Jamie who is the commander of the Lannister force will take note and will join them or a forlorn hope persuading Cersie to believe.
I’m little sad this wasn’t introduced through Jojen/Meera. They barely had any screen time.
Jack Bauer 24,
Jesus man you are such a buzzkill lmfao. Seriously it must be suck to be to you…Are you always such a Negative Nancy or is that just on the internet?? I’ve been thrilled with this season and I think tomorrow’s episode may the best one yet!
You read my mind. I feel exactly the same way.
I would’ve been fine if they’d divided up S7 into ten 45-50 min episodes. Or had two weeks in between a few of the episodes. I would not have minded – actually, I would have relished – more “filler.” I would’ve enjoyed an entire episode of Tormund bantering with Sandor. Or just an entire hour of a procession of characters being told to “fu*k off” by Sandor.
Tomorrow is WAY too soon for the season finale.
“Seriously it must suck to be you”???
What kind of response is that ?
If you don’t agree with the content of Jack’s comment, explain why in dignified language.
He did not launch personal attacks against you. Why would you do it to him?
“Dude”: YOUR insults of Jack are annoying to ME.
If his comments make you uncomfortable, skip over them. At least he’s giving his opinion about the show – NOT about other commenters.
Frankly, I commend his restraint in not responding to you.
I am very concerned about Brienne in this episode. She’s an emissary of Sansa, a close confidante of Jaime and she carries a sword made from Ice. Does Cersei know that Brienne and Jaime carry sister swords? Perhaps Cersei will use Brienne as a harsh example for both Jon and Jaime? I hope not, but who knows?
I just hope they give Theon something to do in the season finale that makes good use of Alfie Allen’s prodigious acting talents. Even if it does mean putting up with more annoying screentime from Euron.
I also am totally done with the stilted catfight crap between Arya and Sansa. Hoping we don’t have to wait until Season 8 to have that particular plotline resolved, and looking forward to seeing some onscreen demonstration of the concept that Sisterhood Is Powerful.
“There’s only one war that matters. And it is here.”
Love me some dour Jon Snow, especially as he is right.
Dany has seen the light, will Cersei? lol! She will cling on to the Iron Throne as her precioussss. She’ll do whatever it takes, fake cooperation and aliance, scheme behind backs just to cling on… Marry the Night King if that is what it takes to be the Queen.
I wish there was a valonqar (that’s Valyrian for “little brother”) who would just off Cersei… But I don’t want Jaime to be a kinslayer! (and Queenslayer in addition to Kingslayer.)
I’m so scared about this episode. All the good guys are coming to King’s Landing in good faith, diplomatic parley mission. But mad queen Cersei doesn’t play by the rules.
I wish the wight the Magnificient 7 captured beyond the Wall and brought back would just attack Cersei and kill her, haha. Alas, it won’t happen.
I’m encouraged by the promo stills that seem to show Jaime arguing and angry with Cersei. Come on! Ditch the bitch and go fight the real war! Retrieve some honour! You know you want.
“Be the man you were meant to be.” Not the way Tywin meant it in S1 (Jaime winced when Tywin said this to him), probably because Tywin’s ideas were different from Jaime’s.
All young Jaime ever wanted was to be the perfect knight, and somewhere along the way it all turned sour. Circumstances but also his own choices. Choosing to be a cynical arsehole, arrested development for the next 15-20 years.
The roadtrip with Brienne reminded him of all his youthful ideals. Getting his famous sword hand chopped off humbled him. More than that, he lost his identity. Brienne was there, when he was at his lowest ebb, at his most vulnerable. She started out hating the dishonourable Kingslayer, but at the end, she had empathy for him, understood him like no other and cared for him. What a poignant, doomed love story…
Jaime and Brienne will meet again at the Dragon Pit, S7E7. Maybe they’ll just see each other across the field as members of opposing forces trying to forge an alliance for the greater good. But I’d really want to have at least a few words between them. (They’d of course botch it, being so honourable, and unused to normal boy-girl relationships. Maybe they’d pass the sword back and forth and stiltedly say things like honour and no, you deserve it, and their eyes would convey the truth. Ayayayaa, I’m a total Jaime + Brienne shipper.)
Why do people keep asking this? We have already seen wights brought through the wall and into Castle Black back in season one.
js,
And the writers even had Jon mention it when they were formulating the plan, to remind everyone.
Ten Bears
Thanks, Ten Bears.
I don’t understand.
“Young Griff” is not in and won’t be “put in.” His absence in the adaptation should be a pretty good indication that he’s detritus.
Who is “Ariana”? Huffington?
How would Young Griff meeting Ariana constitute history repeating itself in “set[ting] aside a Martel for a stark [sic]”
You have the feeling that in the books Dany and Jon will die and Young Griff will end up on the throne ? I admit I have not read the books, but GRRM and the showrunners have consistently said that despite divergences along the way, the show and books are headed to the same destination; and the major characters’ fates will be similar.
Dany and Jon both dying would be a shocker, though not entirely implausible. However, Young Griff on the throne (sssuming there is a throne) would be a Griff ex machina. He does not exist in show canon. That ending would be no different than the Federation Starship Enterprise dropping out of warp to pulverize the White Walkers and Army of the Dead with photon torpedoes.
“Make it so.” – Cpt. Picard
Simples. We were shown that back in S1 when the NW found dead rangers (when Jon and Sam were saying their words at a weirwood grove north of the Wall) and brought them back so that Maester Aemon could study them.
The logic being that they were brought through the Wall by the Night’s Watch. Invited, if you like.
In the books,
Ten Bears,
I didn’t say they will be included. But maybe in season 8 you never know. They introduced euron much later than he was introduced in the books.
Question did you read the books? Because when I read your post it almost look like you read them but you said you didn’t? If you read the books you understands what I meant with: setting aside a Martel for a stark. The whole plot with Jon is that somebody set aside a Martel to marry a stark girl.
Has anybody else thought there’s great irony in Sandor seemingly beeing in charge of the specimen wight.
Like, he was charged with protecting that psycotic douchebag Joffrey (and, I think, protecting people from him), protected snooty, naive Sansa, protected angry little Arya, who complained the whole time… Got nearly killed, found a new life… And now he’s right back to square one, protecting a screeching, reluctant charge who wants to kill him, just like Arya.
Poor Sandor, he just can’t catch a break.
Tormund said it. He wasn’t born mean, his eyes are sad.
Ginevra,
I suspect Mountain may act like a Golem (no children not the LOTR one) and someone will have to remove the prayer inserted in his mouth to stop him. Then again, usually Golems are not humans come to life, instead its clay that is given life.
Have no fear, TB, just two Sullieds spitballing and having fun.
Kevin1989,
Shame!
Hodors Bastard,
[Spoiler] Hope I’m doing it right. My first spoilertag.[/spoiler]
Ten Bears,
Okay, Jack. 😉
I’ve been on this site for very long time and did not say anything against anyone. But, his constant pessimsm is really irritating not only to me, but to a lot of people here. Just read through comments on other posts. I’m just saying that he should tone down a bit. And frankly there is nothing insulting in my previous comment.
Amen to that. I don’t like it one bit that Ned told Arya in S1, “we can’t fight a war amongst ourselves”, and Jon told Sansa in S6, “we can’t fight a war amongst ourselves”…. So what do Arya and Sansa do? Fight a war amongst themselves.
And though I hate to say it, it dumbs down two central female characters in order to effectuate a supposedly clever plan by a male villain.
By the way…. Didn’t Sansa fabricate the “invitation” from Cersei/KL as a pretext to get rid of Brienne? I thought the purpose of the KL pow wow is to present the Jon Snow show and tell starring the captured ice zombie. Jon aka King in the North is already going to be attending. There’d be no reason to invite a proxy.
I wonder if Brienne shows up, and a bouncer says “Sorry. You’re not on the guest list. Neither is Lady Sansa. But she IS on this “Wanted: Dead or Alive” poster.”
If the trip south is all a ruse, it might be inconsistent with Sansa’s solemn oath to her sworn shield that “I will ask no service of you that will bring you dishonor.” If the purpose was simply to get Brienne and Jaime in the same place for E7, I wish they’d done it another way.
And I was hopping the claim to the Iron Throne would come down to a huge battle between Hodor and Patch Face, but that seems out of the question at this point. 🙂
Ten Bears,
The Game of Thrones filler scenes are character building scenes and I like character building scenes more than action fighting scenes. I also wish there was alot more of filler scenes in season 7
Didn’t work. Maybe because the “S” is in caps in the first “Spoiler” ?
What’s really bizarre is the stakes couldn’t be higher beyond the Wall with Team Jon fighting the army of the dead and the NK getting a dragon and we’re supposed to care about a sister squabble between Arya and Sansa? Come on. They’ve butchered WF.
Throw in Shitmouth and “Pate” and I’m in! 🙂
Kevin1989,
Almost! So close! TB has correctly identified the error.
(Just for shits and grins, WotW should consider a practice area to get it right! Guess what? They have….but Preview doesn’t do spoilers!) 🙂
Ten Bears,
Lot’s of good comments as always
I think Sansa is taking Jon’s advice and Arya isn’t taking Ned advice.
I don’t think Sansa would be fighting with Arya at all.
Arya seems to be the one starting the friction by questioning Sansa in an antagonist way. Arya is up to something and she might be using Sansa to play Littlefinger…
The way Arya looked at Littlefinger after she and Brienne had their sword fight and how blatantly obvious Arya was spying on Littlefinger… I think Arya is setting Littlefinger up for a his downfall in a skilled assassin Faceless Man way.
Ten Bears,
Thanks will try in tomorrow. Need some sleep now.
Jack Bauer 24,
Funny thing is. That that feud is more talked about on facebook than the wight hunt or even what will happen in kl next episode, people really wanting to know what’s happening there. Who is manipulating who etc.
I just watched all 6 episodes today in one run and I must say that the winterfell story felled very strong the second time watching. I saw a couple of small foreshadowing in the dialogue from the first 6 episodes. It’s much better if you watched the whole season as a whole. The quality feels so much better.
Hodors Bastard,
Problem is that I’m typing on my phone. So it automatically uses a big S. But I understand in now.
Wouldn’t it be lovely if the wight from last episode would end up on the throne. It even has the tantrums of Jeffrey and it would be a step up from Cercei. We only need a proper name for him.
Precisely. I do too. If anything, the accelerated pace of S7 has reduced those character building scenes.
I much prefer great conversations that propel the story, rather than battles. (Example: Jon unchaining Tormund in S5, preceded by a great back and forth in which Jon explains that NW has fallen short of its oath to “protect the realms of men”; tells Tormund he wants to rescue Wildlings “because you’re not my enemy; and I’m not your enemy”; and dares him to have the courage to save his people rather than cling to pride – or cowardice. )
I had really been looking forward to Gendry, Sandor, Beric and Thoros giving a little bit of insight to Jon about what Arya has been up to. After all, they got to know her pretty well and know what she’d been through since Ned’s death in S1 through the end of S4.
I just wanted ten seconds from The Hound ranting about Needle, e.g. “Because of that f*cking sword you gave her, I had to kill a bunch of c*nts, got stabbed and bitten, and got a bounty on my head.”
And maybe Jon asking Gendry: Where do you think she would’ve gone?”
Gendry: “Well, she made friends with this shape-shifting genie who gave her three wishes and gave her a free ticket to Braavos,”
Jon: “Shape-shifting genie? You really don’t believe that nonsense. Face-changers, grumpkins and snarks and White Wa….. Oh wait.”
Well, technically Jon is a…. 😉 (according to GRRM)
ash,
Yeah, golems are cool. Scary, but cool. I see him as Frankenstein’s monster.
Ten Bears,
I hope that next seasons that episode 3 or 4 will be an “filler episode” I would love to have an episode that feels light and happy. The calm before the storm. Where people would reflect on who they are what they want. Let them talk about what make them happy, what they would do if the war is won. It worked wonderful with Harry Potter 7.1 and lotr part 3. I also hope that after the big battle is won. There will be a certain lotr style where everything will probably be resolved. And not the nk is defeated, 5 minutes later the show is over.
I think what it really comes down to is them having no idea what to do with Arya this season.
They’re in that situation where a character has been made too powerful for them to be used practically.
They can’t send her to kill Cersei because, logically, she could be in and out of King’s Landing in five minutes.
Kill a handmaiden while they’re on their cigarette break then, hey presto, cut Cersei’s throat when you’re serving her breakfast or poison her morning glass of wine.
They can’t have her kill Littlefinger either, because she’d be done and dusted within hours of returning to Winterfell too.
Arya speaking to Sansa: “He gave you to the Boltons???? And Ramsay did what to you??? … Back in five minutes…”
So they had to dream up something for her to do until her superpowers will next be suitable to use and what they came up with was some unnecessary sisterly squabbling over family loyalty and issues from when they were kids.
If they hadn’t made Arya quite so powerful then they could have packed her off to King’s Landing and given her her own storyline trying to get close to Cersei.
And Sansa and Brienne could’ve dealt with Littlefinger at Winterfell.
No I don’t think she faked it. The first we see it, it’s being given to Sansa by the Maester and she seems really surprised. She’s like “this is from King’s Landing!” It’s possible even without the whole Arya situation that she would send Brienne – after all it’s not ridiculous to want someone totally loyal (she thinks) to represent her at the big meeting.
BTW the fact that Cersei went out of her way to invite Sansa screams ITS A TRAAAAP!!! to me (not that I didn’t already think it). Sansa is totally on Cersei’s kill list.
Oh please. JB24 is a troll. He doesn’t ‘give his opinion’ of the show. He comes into nearly every thread and drops some vague negativity because he knows it makes some people mad and frequently derails the discussion. That is the very definition of a troll.
The mods here could have stopped this before the season started back when he was spamming every thread with all the nonsense about the season being delayed because the episode titles hadn’t been announced yet. But they let that go and now here we are at the end of the season and he’s still trolling. And don’t come back and tell me that he’s been here a long time. I know that. But you don’t have to be a newbie to be a troll.
Hodors Bastard,
Jon can be the hand of the king. King cunt and the bastard. May the wights reign long.
Lol. I agree. Still scratching my head over why Arya would ever disclose her faceless talents to anyone and give up the catspaw unless she’s playing an extremely distasteful, somewhat psychotic, game. Sansa simply cannot rid herself of these socio-psychopaths influencing her life. Maybe this is the show’s version of fArya?
You, ser, have jumped the elk!
tyjon,
YES!!! I would love that.
I’m afraid I might have to scream if we get the Knight of the Laughing Tree.
You’re right. And after she got the VS dagger and showed off her moves with Brienne, I thought: “Damn! A Girl has skills!”
Arya sneaking into LF’s room rummaging through stuff, Sansa sneaking into Arya’s room rummaging through her stuff; and Arya and LF hiding in shadows and peeking around corners surveiling each other, were soap opera level devices to quickly concoct a family feud for LF to exploit. It was not worthy of her superpowers.
It would’ve made more sense if she showed up at Eastwatch, and caught up to the Magnificent 7 to offer her services. Arya with a VS dagger vs Wights. That would’ve been better than Arya with a purloined letter vs. Sansa.
Ten Bears,
Yeah. I agree with this so much. As much as I enjoyed all the banter in the last episode, it was all bro-dude talk. The only conversation about a woman was the exchange between Tormund and the Hound about Brienne; while I did really enjoy it, not discussing Arya was ridiculous. After all, FIVE of the seven Magnificent 7 have spent a lot of time with her. No way in hell would a discussion about her not have occurred!
QueenofThrones,
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this works out for Brienne in King’s Landing. I’m imagining a scenario where Cersei wants to kill her or do something else comparably terrible because she’s Sansa’s emissary (and she’s never liked Brienne anyway), and either Jaime steps in or, in some truly ironic twist, the Hound does.
(“Why did you save me? Why should you care whether I live or die?” “I don’t give a fuck. But that crazy wildling ginger does. Thought I’d do him a favor.”)
talvikorppi,
Not just irony in Sandor babysitting a grumpy Wight – but the perfect recipe for a season long road trip. (Sandor was already kicking and stomping the poor fellow. The curses and insults come next. Then the grudging mutual respect…)
Agreed. The scenes and her insufferably “stupid” behavior the last few episodes would make a lot more sense if he was playing some sort of trick to draw Littlefinger out and expose his duplicity. However, it is Sansa that will have him killed. It makes more sense from a thematic point of view, and
Though honestly, I thought the Hound was going to be LF’s downfall. With him heading north this season, his affinity for Stark girls, and his direct knowledge of LF’s betrayal of Ned, it all added up. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this in the books, but it appears we are getting something different on TV. Too bad Jon and Sandor never talked about LF while freezing their balls off in the north.
Ten Bears,
I totally agree! I wanted so badly for Gendry and Sandor to talk to Jon about Arya. They both traveled with her for extended periods of time. No mention of Jon thanking Sandor for protecting Arya and keeping her safe. I don’t want the writers to expect us to just know these conversations happened off screen. I want to HEAR them. I often wonder why couldn’t they just film a few more dialog scenes while they are on set…another 5 minutes here and there would really go a long way. And last year, I think I was just as excited for the cast reactions to Jon’s resurrection as I was for the resurrection itself. And then hardly any mention for the remainder of the season.
Other than that, this season has been amazing. I plan to watch the first 6 episodes all day tomorrow. Netflix has the right of it. These shows really lose momentum week to week. Binge watching is really the best way to experience a great story. Cheers!
Ten Bears,
Lol! One of my favorites tidbits from Beyond the Wall was when he slammed the zombie onto Drogon’s spike to keep him secure for the flight. These little gems are my favorites!
Lady Snow,
Jon just discovered Arya is still alive. He has no idea about her travels with the Brotherhood or the Hound. It’s one of the many plot holes from S6 and S7 that makes no sense to me, absolutely none… going back to Brienne telling Sansa only that Arya was “with a man,” then word eventually getting out (presumably through Podrick) that said man was Sandor; then Arya and Sansa never discussing it (the Hound told Arya about saving Sansa from the mob, and specifically told her “Ask her about it, if you ever see her again”); and then to Sansa never having any further exchange with either Brienne or Arya about it, after Littlefinger’s crack about Brienne having defeated the Hound. Whhhaaattt??? No. Just no. And it’s one of quite a few instances where D&D have dropped the ball on logic and failed intelligent characters by doing so.
Well said – Perhaps some posters (and I’m surprised Ten Bears is one as his posts are always a good read) don’t see JB24 for the troll he is?
Firstly – He NEVER answers replies that criticize his endless negative comments or even replies when he gets a sensible answer to a question he posts which he should have known the answer to if he follows the show.
Secondly – He’s always in the quarantine forum asking questions to those that have read the leaks and thus knows what will happen in the next episode in any case! He will then post a question in the ‘comments’ section acting as if he’s none the wiser 😛
Sorry to say this dude really has a serious problem – Its not normal behavior!
I’m a bit scared for this episode, too. Too many of my favorites are in one place and the last two times that happened (Red Wedding, Sept), many of them died. I’m going to hope for the best tomorrow night but it will be tense.
I’ve always loved that conversation between Tywin and Jaime precisely because of Jaime’s subtle reaction. They had very different ideas of what the “be the man…” comment meant. Its one of my favorite moments and yet the question still remains: who is the man that Jaime was meant to be? His story line over the next 7 episodes interests me more than most others. He may never be the man that I want him to be: that is, break away from Cersei and fight for the greater good.
The title of this episode and Sam’s journey somewhere – hopefully WF – with Gilly and that book has me hoping that “Prince Ragger” and his relationship to our KITN is discussed in more detail.
Wolfish,
I absolutely 100% COMPLETELY agree. The Starks should all be thanking the Hound! Profusely! He’s inadvertently been like a fairy Starkmother. I really need that acknowledged at some point, right? And even though Jon just found out Arya was alive and would have no idea that she traveled with the Hound, the Hound certainly knew who she was. Could have had a scene where the Hound asked Jon if there was any word from Arya, and by the way, she was my feisty little sidekick for two seasons. I am more excited I think for a Hound/Arya reunion than I am for a Jon/Arya reunion.
Hodors Bastard,
I’m predicting that Brienne will be safe 😘 They will need their very best fighters on the ground in the Great War wielding Valyrian steel. Jon with Longclaw, Brienne with Oathkeeper, I’m thinking that the Hound will end up with Heartsbane (he told Brienne he always wanted some Valyrian steel) and he’s one of the few men strong enough to handle that enormous sword. I’m perplexed about Widow’s Wail…is Jamie really good enough as a Southpaw to go up against White Walkers? Maybe Arya with the dagger? Whatever happens, I think Brienne being one of the best fighters in the realm will be around next season. I hope.
Lady Snow,
It would have made sense for the Hound to ask Beric and Thoros why Arya ran away from them. Then again, Arya might have told him why at some point, and… Wait. Wasn’t Gendry there when the Hound killed Beric and Thoros resurrected him?
UUUGGGHHH, the inconsistencies drive me nuts.
Like you, I’m looking forward to the Hound/Arya reunion even more than the Jon/Arya reunion, and I just hope neither of them gets absurdly rushed like so many other things have been as of late. Sigh.
Wolfish,
How do you think the Arya/Hound reunion will go? I’ve thought a lot about it, but truly have no real prediction. Indifference? Smiles? Some snarky banter?
And now that Sansa has matured, and been through absolute hell, will she in hindsight realize how the Hound really had her back, and acknowledge it?
It’s really going to be interesting to see how the Stark girls greet him.
I can picture the Hound and Arya having some really great scenes together next season. I look forward to hopefully some fun comradery between the two of them.
I just really hope that someone will just thank him and give him the props he deserves.
Lady Snow,
Honestly, I have absolutely no clue. The Hound has never outwardly shown much warmth towards anyone, even though he very clearly feels it, and Arya is so guarded she was chilly even with Hot Pie.
So of course, my great hope is that they will be demonstrative with each other in a way they have not been with anyone else thus far. But I’m not holding my breath; they’re products of a world where feelings are deeply buried, and interpreting them is up to each character’s emotional acuity (argh).
I do think the Hound will ultimately get the acknowledgment he deserves, although how that comes about is still (obviously!) a great mystery. There’s certainly a big part of me that hopes that he and Brienne reach an understanding… that she’s able to be as compassionate, open-minded and understanding about him as she was about Jaime, and that he, in turn, might be able to grant her some insight into why Tormund is genuinely attracted to her. But with the incredibly accelerated pace of these last 13 episodes, I’m afraid those are conversations that will remain in my fangirl head.
Wolfish,
I too hope Jon & Arya and Sandor & Arya don’t get rushed. In a weird way, I feel that the Jon & Sansa reunion got undeserved time allotted. They were admittedly never close, yet got the swelling music, long visuals and time to talk – before their “miscommunications” commenced.
(PS Good to see your name again. 🐺)
Wolfish,
Arya WAS Sandor with Hot Pie. Ate, talked, and guzzled just like The Hound – and only became her old self when Hot Pie told her the Boltons were gone from WF and Jon won BoB.
(Keyboard freezing. )
Wolfish,
So much this!
I do feel that Sandor may just have some grudging respect for Brienne in a way, since she fairly kicked his ass. 😜
I agree, this is partly why I am worried that we won’t ever get the Jon/Arya moment that we all want so much! ☹
Wolfish,
D&D should also have Jon Snow tell Queen Daenerys that he knew her (their) great uncle Aemon Targaryen and that Aemon was a wise inspirational Maester at Castle Black who cast the deciding final vote to make him (Jon Snow) Lord Commander.
Hopefully D&D will write some of this simple obvious dialog in season 8 scenes.
Ten Bears,
I know, I know. (Good to see you too, btw… new job and weekend travel have kept me exceedingly occupied, and I’ve been missing this site terribly.) I do appreciate the fact that Arya was Sandor with Hot Pie (a fact not lost on Saner Half, not 1/10th the fan I am!), but it was still disconcerting for me. So yes, I’m really, really, really hoping that the Arya/Hound and Arya/Jon reunions don’t get short shrift.
Pigeon,
He does respect her. It’s one of the things I love the most about his character in both the books and the show: he never, ever undermines women simply for being women. He admitted to Brother Ray, “He was a woman.” He doesn’t tell Tormund the circumstances of their meeting, but neither does he insult Brienne. And he never tells Arya that she can’t do what she wants because she’s a girl. He gives her shit because she’s small and her sword is small and she’s not armored, but not because she’s a girl. It speaks volumes to me about how he views the world, and is one of the chief reasons I’ve always loved his character.
firstone,
UUUGGGHHH, YES.
I made note of this in another thread about three weeks ago. The “lost conversations” drive me batshit-crazy. AEMON TARGARYEN, FFS. Imo, Jon not talking to Dany about Aemon is right up there with five of the Mag-7 not talking to each other about Arya. Completely senseless and illogical.
Yarp….he’s a keeper! He and Arya are still my favourite scenes in the show. And not just the funny bits. When the Red Wedding happened, he really did look after her. I mean, knocking her unconscious aside. 😜
“You weren’t always mean. You have sad eyes.”
talvikorppi,
“There’s only one war that matters. And it is here.”
Oh Jon, but it really isn’t. Or rather wasn’t. As long as the wall stands and everyone stays on the right side of it. But now….they can fly over that wall thanks to him (and Tyrion but less so as he “knows nothing” even more than Jon in these matters.) Oh wait maybe Jon doesn’t know there was magic in the wall to keep them out? I wonder what he thinks is the reason they haven’t crossed yet then.
Ten Bears,
Maybe Gendry is the stand in for this young Griff?
Lyanna and Rhaegar- Ice and Fire – inadvertently started the War and brought the World to chaos due to their union.
Daenerys and Jon- Fire and Ice – will bring peace to the World after their union.
This is ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’.
‘The Dragon and the Wolf’ is just an alternate referral, the episode is of huge significance to the story as a whole.
Excited and worried for this episode.
Hype is Here!
1. Byebye Littlefinger, hello Littlefinger 2.0 please! Even if this does happen though, I expect the audience will be kept guessing whether it is really Littlefinger or not, as Arya will simply not appear for a while.
2. Cersei is going to use the Mountain. It is just not clear how. There is no question she will try to kill Dany and possibly Jon though. Maybe it will be something as simple as a fight between champions for the crown, but once the Mountain is armed his instructions will be to go after Dany.
3. If Beric is in this episode it will be his last. And he will pass on his life force, as in the books (Cat), to someone important. Jon? Dany? Brienne? The Hound? Theon?
4. What are the armies doing? That is confusing.
5. Bran is the most mysterious character ever in anything. We have been waiting for the entire series for him to do something relevant.
6. Dany is going to name Jon her heir. Pretty sure that is where to talk of the succession combined with the mention that she can’t have children was heading. As for their budding romance, pretty sure that will get stopped in its tracks when Jon learns who he is, and the tension of their now taboo love for each other is the whole reason the info was kept from him until now. Cruel twist. It will be combined with obvious backlash for Jaime and Cersei’s relationship which will make it obvious why Jon and Dany can’t act on their feelings.
ygritte,
Isn’t there a book character Edric Storm ? I thought Gendry is merged with him. Haven’t read the books so can’t say for sure.
Lots of great discussion (and Sandor love) here! I, too, would love to see more “catch up” conversations. While the short vignettes among the Mag7 were nice, they weren’t the lovely human connection scenes I’ve become used to on this show. I get that D&D are kinda done with this project (and who can blame them?), but I’m hoping that they just saved up the really good stuff for this last “feature-length” episode. Perhaps they write like I do mazes–from the end to the beginning!
And I am VERY eager to see the end of this cat fighting in WF. It’s made me truly fear for one of the Stark Girls’ lives! Please, please, please don’t let this be the season-ending cliffhanger unless it is Littlefinger doing the dangling!
Off to bed. See you-all on the other side!
awol,
#3: Beric has to psss flaming sword trick to Sandor
Pigeon,
“Remember where the heart is?” 🤧
Finally.
I don’t think they would ever include conversations between characters about stuff we already know. I remember it being mentiond in one of D&D’s interviews, that stuff like that doesn’t make good TV, even if fans do want to see it. Actually, I kind of agree with it. What would be the point of such conversations apart from seeing the reaction to things we already know? It wouldn’t bring the plot forward (as much as would love to see it…)
So I’m pretty sure we won’t see discussions about Arya or Aemon in the remaining 7 episodes. However, it would be great if they added an extra “episode” on the BluRay which has all these missed discussions. Just put the characters in a room, no need for anything else, just the dialogue. (a girl can dream…)
About a possible Sansa/Sandor reunion: Does Sandor hate Sansa? because now we know he hates gingers…
I’m just excited on behalf of those who are unspoiled regarding tonight’s finale 🙂
Ten Bears,
I haven’t read them either but I think you’re right. Forgot about that name 🙂 Gendry being sought out by Davos, reintroduced and made part of the “brotherhood” makes me think he will live to the end. It almost feels like he’s trying hard to earn favor/recognition, and Jon would feel kinship with a fellow bastard who’s putting all on the line for greater good 🙂 I would say making him part of the fam by hitching to sis Arya, if only Arya were still a normal girl.
awol,
I would be completely ok with this scenario. I’ve come to care about Dany, but Jon has been my favorite all along, and I’d have him spared extra grief, if I could.
Problem is most people come here as fans.. not haters who whines and questions like he skip watching it. Most of his questions are easily answerable if he really did watch the episode.
awol,
Jon & Dany won’t find out the truth until they are completely in love. And then the truth won’t matter. It becomes easier for viewers to accept the couple as well.
People have been asking about Cersei’s plan all week. We seem to be forgetting that Dany conquered Astapoor with a deception even Tywin wouldn’t have thought of. She deceived even her own team lol.
Yes to Ten Bears’ query. Gendry in the show is a merged character, with part of the storyline of book character:
As to where he’s headed, this spaewife disnae ken. But he’s been brought back into the story for a reason and I’m looking forward to see this. I don’t think he and Arya can get together, but do wonder about, maybe just – Sansa?
I must say I’m so much looking forward to ep 7 but so sad to have to wait after that. But, they need time to get it sufficiently ‘right’. And then maybe someday, The Winds of Winter…?
Thanks Ygritte! I’m just very pleased to be ‘unspoiled’. Haven’t read leaks but I’d gathered some of the stuff in previous episodes from comments. But as to this finale, I’m completely in the dark. Some people will meet, that’s set up, but then….
Whatever it is, it will be fascinating.
Here are a few hopes for tonight…
1) Winter finally comes to Kings Landing
From the previews, Cersei is wearing furs, but I still didn’t see snow. It would be cool to see the snow start falling in KL.
2) Arya and Sansa team up after Bran quotes father and shares a few facts…
3) Bran comes to Jon in a dream as a raven who then morphs back into Bran and tells him about his real parents…. I don’t think Jon will get back to Bran this season, so Bran needs to come to Jon!
4) Theon ends uncle Euron after rescuing Yara
5) Baby boom night with Dany and Jon
6) Tyrion gets to ride a dragon at the dragon pit party
Can’t wait until tonight.
Davos and Tyrion will let us know when Jon and Dany are completely in love. Sigh. I’m hoping to be shown proof in the finale that they are falling in love because in the last episode, as good as it was in other ways, I thought Dany was waiting for Rhaegal up in the East Watch Tower, not Jon.
Yes, me too. I understand that the series was shortened because of the amount of time needed to process the CGI and action scenes, but sure the conversation scenes that have been omitted are comparatively simple and cheap to produce.
I don’t think Arya would kill an innocent party. Has she ever done so?
Assuming the face she used at The Twins was one she brought from the HOB&W.
Black Raven,
What they said. JB24 is blatantly trolling. Ask him to expand on a statement (eg his dislike of a director) and he won’t reply.
Maybe not an innocent handmaiden but there are some not so innocent left in Cersie court at least that’s what I think if it is Ayra.
Rewatching, it amused me that Sam reacted to Gilly’s discovery by ranting about something else being “completely ignored“.
I’ve found this while rewatching too – things that may have jarred at first viewing are often better when seen in full context.
It disappoints me that NOW TV remove each episode from catch-up after 28 days. Wish they would make them all available until at least a couple of weeks after the final episode.
spaewife,
Spaewife, I hadn’t “twigged” that you were Scots (Scottish? – never quite sure which is right – I know “Scotch” is the whiskey or the sticky tape).
Completely off topic, I hope that any commenters from the other side (to me) of the Atlantic are bearing up while the hurricane lashes out. News reels of it look bad and I do hope commenters get through it okay or at least as well as possible.
Back to GOT. Some people have not liked this season. I’m not a playwright but I have some patience with the two Ds because they probably thought they would have at least the “Winds of Winter” if not ADoS to work from back when they first committed to dramatising ASOIAF. Some folk have suggested an extra episode to build up to points that they perceive as “rushed” might have benefited this season and I tend to agree. I avoided the leaks as much as possible but there were people who were saying this season was “dumb” before it was even aired. It hasn’t been THAT terrible, and least in this old dame’s view though of course other people are free to disagree. If there are any deleted scenes in the Bluray this year it will be interesting to see if any such scenes would have contributed to a build-up.
There have been criticisms of Thoros and Benjen being killed off for shock value, though last year there were complaints that Jon and Sansa won Winterfell too easily and that Dany and company won Mereen too easily and that was fan service, so there is no way of pleasing all the people all the time. Possibly because I was a show watcher before I was a book reader I haven’t been wholly thrown by some of the streamlining and changes though there have been some cut book characters I would have like to see on screen and sub-plots I liked in the books. I wonder if when the adaptation was first planned the showrunners thought ADoS and ADoS would be shorter books and that was why they shortened the number of episodes per season towards the end of the TV show’s run.
MANY years ago I saw a TV version of Peter Brooks’ (very much abbreviated) of the Indian epic Mahabharata. The shortened version was over 6 hours long but still left out much (I’m not familiar with all the twists and turns of the original Mahabharata; I don’t know any Indian languages, I’m sorry). The battle scene in the Mahabharata made me think of Dany and Drogon in “The Spoils of War”. It seems that any story with an epic sweep is going to be a simplified version of the source material. (An an aside I recently found a YouTube channel called “Lost in Adaptation where the presenter has covered the first three episodes of season 1 of GOT in comparison with GOT the book).
As for this forthcoming episode, I wouldn’t be surprised if Cersei had some nasty trickery in mind – hopefully our King in the North and Dragon Queen and their (not so) merry band of helpers will be watchful.
The acidity that I have come across in the ASOIAF fandom generally has put me off fandoms in general. The people who visit this site mostly (unfortunately you can’t get rid of trolls from the internet) disagree politely but there can be some outright nastiness in other sites. Next time I become very much invested in a show I don’t think I’ll become involved in any fansite – I might “lurk” but I will try to avoid commenting. There is a dark side to fandom.
Jon and Sansa’s reunion got exactly the devotion it deserved, specifically because they weren’t close and the producers needed to establish a relationship and emotional dependence that would make the rest of their Season 6 arc and beyond believable.
If D&D shortchange us on any future reunions or relationships then people should be asking why they cut the seasons so short when they still had such material to work with, rather than criticising them for the great job they did on Jon and Sansa’s reunion.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Agreed.
I was not particularly disappointed with the idea of the short season originally, but now that it is almost over and SOOO many moments have not been given the depth and weight (and careful plotting) they deserved, I now think the short season was a big mistake.
Arya and Sansa’s reunion was reasonably well handled, but the subsequent devolution of their relationship has been odd, and not careful enough. As for Bran…that is just not quite working on any level at the moment. He needed more/longer scenes so that he could show how not Bran he is anymore without his greetings with siblings being just so flat.
And then there are all of the non-Stark interactions that haven’t had enough time. Meanwhile, Cersei and Jaime’s scenes have mostly been extremely boring making it obvious there are not enough characters left in KL. It is unfortunate.
No, that was a much more recent decision.
The showrunners have said that it was increasingly difficult to produce ten episodes in a year, and with more elaborate action scenes and CGI towards the end, it would be impossible. Just not enough time.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man
I agree but also think that there was strong narrative purpose for a more emotional treatment of the Jon-Sansa reunion. First, it was the first Stark reunion which needed extra emotional emphasis to refocus the story on the sliwly reuniting Starks, atheme that now looks like it will carry us into three seasons (assuming Jon does not return ti WF in the finale). Second, Sansa remains at risk with novwhere else to go, making the reunion important for her. Third, Jon is rudderless and connecting with Sansa is the first step for giving himself purpose in the arc where we are now. Think of where Jon would be if he had missed Sansa.
All this made the extra emotional resonance important. The other stark reunions had jarring themes which was purposeful in my mind.
Grandmaester Flash,
Also, they shortchange us on the dialogue even when they do film a scene featuring conversation.
For example, Davos mentioning that Tyrion killed his son at the Blackwater. We don’t need some massive heart to heart, but the exchange they did write…
Tyrion: Last time I was here I killed my father with a crossbow.
Davos: Last time I was here you killed my son with wildfire.
…just feels like box-ticking, rather than proper dialogue. At least give Davos an extra line or two about putting aside differences to fight the White Walkers or wishing he’d never followed Stannis, or something.
Instead we get 2 minutes of “fermented crab” nonsense when all that scene needed was for a couple of gold cloaks to spot Tyrion, Davos tries to bribe them, then Gendry caves their heads in.
They filmed the scenes. Just add the appropriate dialogue.
It’s like their priorities have been completely misplaced this season.
Grandmaester Flash,
Well, she got into The Twins with ease using that face that she either brought from the House of Black and White or carved off some deserving or innocent woman along the way.
Either way, the writers have created a situation where we know that she could get in and out of the Red Keep using the same methods and killing Cersei would be relatively easy. So they had to dream up something else for her to do in the meantime.
Night Knight,
Thought the same thing yesterday. Everybody is so focused on what Cersei will do bit no one is focused on Dany. She is actually incredibly cunning. Both in terms of how she took the slave cities and also how she became the khal of khals.
Aye, I’m Scottish – I’m a Scot – and ‘spaewife’ is a word from the Scots language, cognate to the Old Icelandic ‘spákona’, being a woman who in some sense ‘sees’ things both present and future. The name was chosen because (a) it’s an area I’ve done some work on and (b) one of my favourite book!characters might – just might – be one, particular as GRRM seems to be familiar with the northern mythology and literature and draws on this, though possibly D&D aren’t/don’t.
(As you say, “Scotch” is what people not-in-Scotland call whisky from Scotland… Here I’d just ask for a Single Malt, usually by name…)
Anyway: I’m fairly pleased with what the showrunners are doing. Obviously I’d have done it a bit differently, as would anyone, we all having our particular views. But any adaptation of a book, or as here a series of complex books, for stage or screen needs to slim down plot and to find non-verbal means of indicating much that is indicated verbally within the books. And here the books can make use of the ‘unreliable narrator’ device, because of the PoV structure, whereas the show needs to, well, ‘show’ us what it can and also hide some things for future revelation.
Overall, I think a good job. Like some others, I’d have appreciated more dialogue but am very aware of the restrictions, particularly of time.
I remember that adaptation well! And yes, a good parallel there.
And I may go and look for that YouTube channel later…
But is it a positive or a negative reaction? I mean, for us whose native tongue is not english, is “woohoo” a reaction of mirth (it would be in my language) or sadness(that would be boohoo in my language)?
I wonder about one scene leaked during filming which hasn’t made into the show yet.
Indeed. I believe the conversation with Tyrion foreshadowed this. “Aren’t we planning a trap?” I suspect that on Dany’s part it will be a counter-trap of some kind. Like, if it seems Cersei will spring hers, somehow Dany’s will be sprung instead… what or how, I have no idea.
QueenofThrones,
I would love it if Daenerys committed some sort of atrocity or betrayal.
Just to spice things up a bit.
Dany and Jon teaming up to fight the White Walkers and Cersei being the only person left with a ruthless streak in their body risks leaving the show a bit bland.
Possibly the most intriguing part of this entire season was the moral ambiguity, Jaime’s Mad King flashbacks and Tyrion’s doubts over the attack on the Lannister forces. It was certainly more engaging that Daenerys riding to the rescue north of The Wall.
They could draw further parallels between Daenerys and Cersei now that Daenerys has lost one of her “children”. Like Cersei, she could become more ruthless and uncompromising to protect her remaining children.
Wolfish,
Yes which explains why he wouldn’t ask anything about her. But the hound and beric know they are related (well sorta) and would think they would want him to know more. I agree with everything else you say in this post. It is indeed maddening.
Black Raven,
Thankfully he doesn’t seem interested in running for president. In all honesty, I’d rather spend my energy on real problems. Not sure this really is one.
kklin,
Well technically we saw wights behind the wall in the episode where the dead rise up and Jon has to kill them with Longclaw in Castle Black. If that can happen, then this is plausible too
Indeed Daenerys was quite cunning in her acquisition of power in Essos right from when she had nothing except three infant dragons. But that was when she was relying completely on herself. She didn’t have Westerosi allies giving her their advice and war strategies, as started to happen with the uprisings in Meereen. Deciding to go North to rescue Jon and Co., or the Loot Train Battle, were finally decisions she made herself. However, the showing of a wight to Cersei is once again, listening to Tyrion’s advice. I am very curious to see how much she continues to listen to Tyrion or breaks away to rely on herself in the final six episodes next season.
I don’t see Gendry in the shots of KL, so I hope this means he’ll turn up at WF this episode. There needs to be some reason to bring him back now other than his running prowess.
awol,
Well I think the scene with him and Meera did that without too much trouble (I felt so badly for her!) I agree with you, I understood why they needed to shorten the season, but seeing the result of this one, Im not so sure it was wise. There were conversations that needed to happen, not because we wanted them but because those conversations in past seasons were honestly the meat of the show. Missed those this year.
Thinking about it they need to do one GOT special after its all over, with the characters all coming together for a family reunion and just catching everyone up. It could be fun! (or not, ymmv)
Lady Snow,
Oh how I would LOVE a Tales of Dunk and Egg spinoff if Arya and Sandor survive the show! Imagine the dynamic of them travelling throughout the world, killing, eating, swear, as they please! The joy!
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
You’re right. I should thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say.
• Sansa + Jon got the “breathing room” for the buildup it needed for their subsequent interactions. With so little time remaining, Jon + Arya may not have the luxury of the “breathing room” accorded to Jon + Sansa.
• My concern was also that because of the frenetic pace of S7, there have been scenes involving Jon, Sandor, Gendry, Brienne, Thoros, or Beric in which Arya’s name and whereabouts would’ve come up in normal conversation – but didn’t. The omissions made the scenes seem stilted.
•[I may have said this already, but I think my stupid phone zapped the comment during posting so forgive any redundancy]: I understand that the book-to-screen adaptation process makes it difficult to translate internal monologues in books into spoken dialogue without cheesy voiceovers or talking to a mirror. Still, it’s my understanding that in the books [I’ve only read a few snippets] Jon and Arya had a special bond and thought about each other all the time.
On Arya’s end, the show has done a pretty good job of using Needle as a reminder of that bond. Like in the first Season 4 episode, “Every F*cking Chicken in…” — I mean “Two Swords” when Arya, determined to get Needle back from Polliver, ignored Sandor’s demand “Hey, get back here!” and kept marching to the inn entrance because: “My brother gave me that sword!”*
• But on Jon’s end, not much at all. Barely a mention of his little sister since telling her “I’m going to miss you” before she jumped into his arms during their emotional goodbye in S1. In a recent episode, he said he thought she was dead, but that made little sense. She was last seen alive and well by Brienne.
• Now, I’ve always figured the show would wait until the last season to bookend the great S1 Arya & Jon Needle scene with a meet-up of the two characters after seven or eight years apart. At the same time, for the payoff to have resonance, it shouldn’t come out of left field or feel rushed.
It’s just that there are so few hours left between now and the end of S8. And the psycho sister vs. self-centered sister detour siphons off precious time that I had hoped would be devoted to “organic” resolutions of story lines already in place.
• I could say the same thing about a satisfying resolution of Arya’s conflicting emotions about Sandor, built up in prior seasons. E.g. S5 Arya insisting to Jaqen 2.0 : “I wanted him to suffer. I hated him!”, earned her a whack accompanied by the observation: “A girl lies to me, to the many-faced god, to herself.” Then by S6 when the Waif asks “Tell me about the Hound”, a Girl (Arya) admits by the time they parted she had taken him off her List; she did and did not want him dead; she sounds confused because “Yes. She was.”
I felt these scenes presaged an eventual reconciliation of her suppressed emotions, and the potential for a great dramatic moment when she learns he’s alive. (Or else, why bother ?). On Sandor’s side, I suspect he’s going to feel some guilt for indoctrinating a young girl in the finer points of killing, and maybe set her straight.
As others may have commented, I was surprised that when Jon came upon Sandor in the Eastwatch cell and thereafter:
– Jon wasn’t incredulous that The Hound was even alive;
– Jon wasn’t the least bit inquisitive about Sandor’s time with Arya;
– Sandor did not seem curious about the fate of either one of Jon’s sisters;
– The “whinging” and “cock/dick” chatter provided some comic relief, but nobody asked about Arya; and it was nice that Jon & Jorah discussed Longclaw, but neither Jon nor Sandor mentioned Needle.
HOWEVER, I still have faith that the show runners can and will address all of these concerns in S8. They did a pretty good job of introducing Jon & Dany as strangers and potential rivals, and within a few episodes, they’ve become allies and whatever it is the handholding and exposed abs means.
*(I had heard so much about the “Needle was Jon Snow’s smile” internal monologue from the books and saw it quoted and excerpted online in so many “favorite passages” surveys; I can’t say enough about how I thought Maisie Williams did a fabulous job conveying the emotions of that passage without saying a word – just facial expressions and body language while on the Braavos dock.
……………
PS Sorry so long. Bad ad day. Can’t edit.
ash,
Wait. I’m still confused about Jon’s “I thought she was dead” line.
(To be cont. from another computer.)
David A,
“Think of where Jon would be if he had missed Sansa.”
——–
A: On a beach.
I’m just going to post some random things that I’m looking forward to that I definitely think will happen despite not being spoilered.
JAIME AND CERSEI FIGHTING – YES YES YESYESYESYEsss FIGHT!! I hope she is completely awful to him, calls him a coward and weakling and all the rest for not wanting to obliterate their enemies. It’s been frustrating that Dany and Tyrion have been in conflict more than Jaime and Cersei this year. Even if I understand it both from a character and a plot-needs perspective… JUST BREAK UP ALREADY! Jaime your ONE TRUE LOVE will be RIGHT THERE!!!
FINDING OUT what Cersei and Dany are each plotting… I hope it’s something as dramatic and surprising as Septsploision or Astapor Liberation (maybe my expectations are too high).
FINDING OUT what is going to happen in Winterfell… This has been the best executed intrigue plot this whole season. I am open to almost any resolution – even one of them killing/imprisoning the other – though I do hope there is a “twist” of some kind, and I also hope that at least one of Arya or Sansa will have had a “hidden dagger” type of plot going on (Arya swapping the dagger from one hand to the other when sparring with Brienne may have been foreshadowing of something like this)…
I am expecting Jon and Dany to bone. Not exactly “looking forward” because it will probably be a bit akward like all of the love scenes in GoT, But it’s exciting because A) I assume Dany will get preggers and B) when they find out about the incest thing next season, it will be suuuper akward (I think Dany will think its awesome and Jon… not so much lol). Anyway I fully buy their relationship – last episode was very moving.
Various random meetings?! Brienne w erryone (esp Jaime and Hound), Tyrion – Cersei &/or Jaime (would be nice to have a smaller pre/post meeting with the 3 Lannisters and Dany & Jon but I don’t think we’re getting it). Hound – Cersei… Tyrion – Pod…
Okay, thanks for the info, GMF.
spaewife,
Thanks for your reply, Spaewife. On the subject of Gendry, I’ve wondered if he will somehow make Arya more sensitive again though that might have to wait until Season 8.
Mirth is good. I’ll add that in American English it is an expression of excitement and celebration. I say “American English” because I know the English spoken in the UK and other countries have a host of words and special meanings for words I have no clue of, so I am just being careful here. So, I can guess that most everyone visiting this site is expressing excitement in one language or another!
Pigeon,
PIGEON IS FROM PEI!?!?! :O
I still LOVE the S4 scene when Sandor briefly lets down his guard and tells Arya the story about Gregor burning him. How the betrayal was worse than the physical pain.
And when he’s done, looks over to her and asks rhetorically “You think you’re on your own?”
Then with his head bowed and barely a nod, lets her wash out his wound.
That scene pulls at me every time.
Dame of Mercia,
“On the subject of Gendry, I’ve wondered if he will somehow make Arya more sensitive again though that might have to wait until Season 8.”
————
I’m thinking that’s Sandor’s job. After all, he took a sensitive girl who pleaded with him “Please! Please don’t kill him!” (the pork merchant with broken cart), and showed her the way to be a stone cold killer. Or at least encouraged her vengeful impulses.
Not really sadness or mirth (amusement), it’s an expression of excited delight – like “Hurray!” or “Yippee!” or “YES!!!”
Wolfish,
Right when Gendry met Jon Snow at Dragonstone would have been the perfect time for Gendry to say I met your sister Arya right after your father Ned was executed and we were traveling North to Castle Black. Gendry could have told Jon about the Brothers without Banners and how he got separated from Arya. That conversation could have added even more tension to the later scene at Eastwatch when Gendry called out the brothers without banners…
a missed opportunity from D&D
Ten Bears,
I love that scene too. That’s the sort of scene I wish we’d had some of this season.
Imagine Davos and Tyrion talking about the Blackwater, Matthos, Tywin, Stannis, what they see in their respective king/queen, etc.
Or Brienne and Sansa talking about Cat and the different strengths and expectations of women in Westeros.
Jon and Gendry or The Hound talking about Arya.
Daenerys and Jon talking about Maester Aemon and their respective fathers and family relationships (there’s still a chance we might get that in the finale. But I’m not holding my breath).
Past scenes like that are the ones that I’ve rewatched a thousand times and which really build the world and relationships we’re supposed to care about.
Catelyn and Talisa talking about Jon Snow. Maester Aemon and Jon talking about love and honour. Tyrion trying to comfort Sansa after the Red Wedding. Brienne opening up to Podrick and telling him about the ball where she met Renly. Tyrion and Jorah reciting the poem as they enter the ruins of Valyria. And so on.
It’s that lack of emotional and character focus that I think this season has seriously suffered from.
Just because we know the characters already doesn’t mean there’s no more to learn about them, especially when they’re establishing new relationships with new people.
For me, that’s probably the main reason this season has been a frustrating disappointment.
Honestly, it makes me a little depressed thinking about all the unfulfilled potential in the characterisations and interactions this season.
Is it too soon to declare an MVP for the season?
So far, Jaime is in contention for the top spot. How does an arrogant shit who goes from pushing a young Bran from a tower window become the voice of reason while being caught between a rock and a hard place! How the hell did I end up hoping that he wouldn’t die? If he is still being manipulated by Cersei at the end of this finale, he’ll lose the MVP status from me. From there, I may have to give it to…
Sansa. I can’t believe I’m writing that; I can’t believe I feel that, but she has really matured well. If LF is still alive and she seemingly still trusts him at the end of this finale, then she, too, loses the MVP title.
In that case, congratulations will go to Drogon. (He’s secretly my first, last, and only choice anyway! 🙂 ).
Huh, I thought they did that really well actually.
Every single one of Bran’s scenes and scenes where his name was brought up, with his sibs and other people, were engineered specifically to demonstrate how alien and inhuman he is now. My view is that he knows exactly what will happen and what his role is going to be. So every single thing he does or says is absolutely vital to making the future he sees happen. There is no “random” Bran content now – it is all deeply significant. “Dr. Branhatten” if you will 😉
Black Raven,
***
” Secondly – He’s always in the quarantine forum asking questions to those that have read the leaks and thus knows what will happen in the next episode in any case! He will then post a question in the ‘comments’ section acting as if he’s none the wiser 😛”
———————-
Sorry. I wasn’t aware of that. (I’m rabidly Anti-Leaks.)
Playing around in the Quarantine Zone, and then coming over here pretending to be unspoiled, is just not cool. I do not want to see “leaks” camouflaged as speculation.
Criticism of certain directors or characters is okay, even if consistently negative. Some people look at the world and sing “Everything is Awesome.” To others, everything blows. I get that.
If there’s a chance of cross-contamination with “leaks” stiff I’ll have to be more careful … or just scroll past. ☠️
firstone,
Look, they can’t have characters endlessly recapping the show live. It’s going to get tedious boring after awhile. In fact, Eastwatch already had too much of this type of thing.
The convo about Robert and Ned (unlike your hypothetical Arya conversation) was significant not because it recapped their fathers relationship, but because 1) it reveals that Gendry has now accepted Robert’s Legacy as his own rather than identifying as a mere random bastard – this could be hugely important going forward. 2) It calls back to a season 1 – ep 1 interaction between their fathers in a moving and funny way that the characters aren’t aware of. 3) It reminds us that Jon still thinks he’s a bastard despite being KitN now – viewers need to know this because of Jon-is-legit son of Rhaegar plot that goes throughout the season.
Until the tonight’s finale, be careful on social media. I just saw a photo spoiler that was retweeted by another media outlet. Sigh!
QueenofThrones,
Semi-related question: Gendry told Davos he didn’t like working as an armorer for the Lannisters, who had killed his father and tried to kill him.
We know about the Gold Cloaks and the Mountain looking for Gendry to execute along with all of Robert’s other bastard children.
But as far as anyone knows, Robert died in a hunting accident when he was gored by a boar.
(I don’t think getting a drunk drunk and hoping a wild animal encounters him is a sensible murder scheme, but that’s another story )
Anyway, where would Gendry have gotten it into his head that the Lannisters killed King Robert ?
Ten Bears,
Interesting point. I would be surprised if people didn’t speculate that Cersei somehow engineered Robert’s death, given what she had to gain from it (especially if they also believe that Cersei’s kids weren’t Roberts’).
On that note, a lot of people speculated that Cersei was screwing her brother (called her “Brotherfucker” in the streets lol) even though there was no evidence of that either, really – just Stannis’ accusations and the kids’ hair color. Which is like… my husband and I have dark brown hair and a blonde kid so… I always thought was a pretty dumb plot point TBH. What are recessive genes. :p
❤ I love that he told her the story of his own accord, sitting there armor-less and almost vulnerable. And wouldn’t let her cauterize it (I’m thinking Brother Ray must have had some awesome antibiotics, and even better surgical skills considering Sandor doesn’t even have a limp now!) I really do hope they reunite, and that it’s a positive reunion, because their S4 escapades were a runaway hit even to the most casual viewers.
QueenofThrones,
I was going to qualify my question by posing the possibility that the public was aware Cersei was charged with regicide. (Though the “murder” plan was kind of far-fetched: a real drunk will either pass out, or pull a Dick Cheney and mistake someone in his hunting party as a wild turkey and target him.)
I guess Cersei had the perfect legal strategy: Vaporize the prosecution’s star witness, the prosecutor, the judges, and the courthouse.
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💥🍷
Not from, but I am set on moving there someday. I was lucky enough to visit as part of a student conference when I was a teen, and the moment I stepped off the plane it felt like coming home. That’s never changed. One of the most beautiful places on earth.❤
Ten Bears,
This. ALL of this. I wrote a fairly long rant after Ep3 about all of the ways that the writing had become more holey than Swiss cheese, and I felt the same way after Ep6. I’m enjoying the spectacles of this season and the bro-dude talk made for nice comic relief, but come on.
firstone,
Also… (I may be repeating myself)
Gendry: “Your Grace, I spent close to two years traveling with your sister Arya. She saved my life with her quick thinking when the Mountain ambushed the NW recruits to find me and kill me.”
Mwahaha! That was just one of my favorite conversations ever. Normally I love George’s dialogue more, but the Tordor talk was one for the ages.
You know, I’ve been thinking a lot about Arya’s faceless abilities and how well they could serve her in the wrong war (the war to the south) but not in the right war (the war to the north). But you know, perhaps she could take the face of a wight or, better yet, a White Walker. How wicked would that be? And then she could easily get close to the Others or even the Night’s King. Close enough for that dagger to do some good!
Pigeon,
Unless the writers are just singiemindedly focused on getting to the finish line with a couple of impressive CGI shots along the way, an Arya-Sandor reunion and reconciliation is inevitable.
If I may channel Prof. Wimsey and his colleagues Chekhov and William of Occam, the two Braavos scenes I referenced in my 12:21 pm post (Jaqen 2.0 & Arya S5; and Waif & Arya S6) with callbacks to The Hound that reveal Arya’s conflicting emotions, would be superfluous if there’s no resolution down the road. And anything unnecessary is supposed to be jettisoned from a story; just as you don’t “hang a gun” and leave it unfired.
I confess I am a Sandor & Arya fanboy. Honestly, though, what other possible reason could there have been to include those two scenes, if not to set up a future scene in which Arya confronts Sandor and reconciles her conflicting emotions?
Plus, in an Episode Commentary for S4e10, the writer or director explained that when Sandor told Brienne HE was watching over Arya (“Aye, that’s what I’m doing”) ,
Frankly, after the two of them had (what I consider) the best scenes together in GoT, it would be a shame if there’s never a resolution.
(They should’ve fed LF to the dogs in S6e9, and had Sandor truck on up to WF for a few S7 episodes with Little Bird 🕊and Wolf Girl 🐺.)
Kevin1989,
Anyone else wondering how brother & sister John & Dany will play out? Nothing has been discussed about the big reveal during season 6 finale with Ned & the Tower of Joy.
Sandor, eyeing Sansa: Oh, my little bird has grown up to be Big Bird.
She’s not that tall, but almost, especially next to her siblings.
D&D mentioned before that the relation between the Hound and Sansa was very important and wasn’t over way back in S2. There will be a emotional reunion between those two at the very least.
Personally, I don’t want the Hound to exclusively share scenes with only one of the Stark girls. I want all three of them to play off each other. The Hound is going to be pretty shocked to see how much Sansa has changed and Arya will be shocked to see how the Hound has “mellowed” in his old age lol
I hope they make the Hound feel like he has a home now, I want him to live with them at WF when the series is over watching both.
Ginevra,
I always thought he’d think, “Little Bird has finally flown out of her gilded cage.”
As much as I was a SanSan shipper in the books, though, I can’t see it on the series. Too much of an age difference between the actors (in the books Sandor is probably in his late 20s), and a different sort of relationship (thankfully) put onscreen. Then again, there’s a larger age difference between Emilia Clarke and Iain Glen, and none of us object to that thought…
But I digress.
You misunderstand me. The point is, the scenes didn’t really work on a dramatic and narrative level because they were trying to do too much at once. Ultimately it is believable that Bran has changed profoundly, but not believable that he is devoid of all emotion. He needed more to work with to show a believability to what he now is and isn’t.
Oh gods, not the Sandor/Sansa thing again. Not gonna happen (he deserves better, imo). Always fancied Sandor and Brienne, but the girl has way too many suitors now. 😜
Ten Bears,
Hey, your right! Ok, Gendry knew the Gold Cloaks and the Mountain were out on the rampage and seeking out and killing King Robert’s bastards, but telling Davos that the Lannisters killed his father… No way would he have known that. It must have been common knowledge that Robert Baratheon was killed by a boar in a hunting accident. Even the actors in Braavos included that in their road show. So perhaps Gendry in his mind had decided long ago that the Lannisters were also behind the death of his father?
As far as I recall, the only reference that Robert’s demise was orchestrated by Cersei was after the fall of the Sept of Baelor at the time she was taking her revenge out on Septa Unella and pouring wine over her? When she admitted to various things such as an incestuous relationship with her brother, but firstly admitting she had killed her husband. Here’s the Youtube clip:
Pigeon,
Oh, I think he deserves better too. As I wrote, I shipped them in the books, which we’ve moved far, far beyond…
If he and Brienne wind up together, they’ll have an epic “how we met” story to tell their seven-foot-tall children.
Don’t think D&D meant a relationship in that way.
Besides, Sansa deserves better too. I would be 100% cool with her choosing never to marry again personally.
It is my understanding that we are being given 3 extra episodes overall. The original plan was to have 7 seasons of 10 episodes. However the 7th season had too much information to cover and was extended to 13 episodes which was divided into two seasons due to the cgi. One of seven episodes and one of six episodes. So we are getting extra episodes as well as longer ones.
Not a biologist, but I thought they books and show were saying that both Robert’s genes were brunette. You and your husband both have blonde recessive, I am thinking, in order to get blonde children and not have the blonde show up in either of you. But Robert’s ton of brunette-only bastards showed he didn’t have a non-brunette recessive trait. Now, I don’t think the absence of a bastard brunette actually proves he doesn’t, but that was their point.
But he was more than drunk drunk, wasn’t he? Didn’t Cersei have Lancel put something extra in his wine? I mean, I don’t think it was ever explicitly stated in previous seasons, but it was heavily implied that Cersei forced Lancel to add some sort of depressant to his drink to slow his reactions enough to create the hunting accident.
EASY_PHOENIX,
Aunt and nephew, not sister and brother.
Ginevra,
I cannot see that because the result of killing a WW is that he shatters and you can’t save a shattered face. Other than that, it would be pretty cool.
Portman with the HYPE
https://twitter.com/Daniel_Portman/status/901894015007719426
“As big as it gets”
Jack Bauer 24,
For all my favorite characters:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/z761UFlG48TQc/200_s.gif
You gotta wonder how much of a hive mindset the WW have. Are they tracking/pinging each of their wights, and is the NK tracking/pinging each one of his WW generals, for consistent feedback? Like in sophisticated network systems, is there some constant check to verify that each node is alive and well? Can the WW or NK feel one of their nodes go dark? We already seem to know that if the mother node goes dark, the child nodes are compromised as well.
In any case, given that supplemental info, having Arya infiltrate the ranks of the undead by simply assuming a face (or whatever is left of a face!) is quite interesting but may involve conflicting magic! What each character does to survive and/or contribute to the looming existential battle is quite daunting indeed.
This is exactly my point though. Obviously hair color does not constitute any sort of proof that Rob’s kids aren’t his because recessive genes exist. Unless Everyone in Westeros knows that Robert is homozygous for the dark hair gene because they like published a paper on it in Citadel magazine.
Aszusz,
I suppose he doesn’t hate gingers, he wanted to get rid of Tormund. Figure of speech.
She has matured in some ways but regressed in much more important ones. She’s still beholden to LF, consults him, even shares information with him despite knowing how treacherous AND deadly he is. And how likely to use any information for his nefarious purposes. She has said a few times she feels safe in Winterfell, but is anyone else safe? Do you think she replaced the clown-guards? Has she warned Arya about the threat Littlefinger poses and his sneakiness and malice? Has she told her about the WWs at all? Since nobody there seems worried or mentions it, the Wolves owe it to Arya to tell her about Jon’s focus. Sans didn’t apprise Brienne of the looming LF problem and keep her and Pod there to protect them all from a LF betrayal! She’s in charge and should be accountable for everything, good and bad. Do you think she is really a good steward at anything other than food and clothing? We don’t know, of course, but SAnsa’s focused on the politics and not the security and welfare of her people, just like she’s worried about the distant threat of Cersei when the NK poses a more dangerous and nearby threat. She’s as short-sighted and self-absorbed and as prone to poor judgement as she ever was. And because of that, we have the current mess and many looming perils.
KingInTheEast,
Jon burned the wight and got Longclaw as a reward…
BTW we have had few deaths this season? Who do we think might die?
In no particular order…
Euron
Pod
Brienne
Cersei
Jaime
Hound
Mountain
Jorah
LF
Sansa
I think Dany / Jon / Tyrion / Arya / Bran are 100% safe
We have a death pool at our watch party and SO FAR the only winner was Ollena Tyrell so I’m actually hoping for several deaths this epi (plz not my faves though). I almost got a point for Ellaria but nooo Cersei just had to torture her for the rest of her life instead. *sigh*
I agree, although I am somewhat flummoxed by his lack of involvement in “Beyond the Wall”. What the heck is he up to since warging into a fickle flock of ravens? I hope he has a significant impact for tonight’s episode. Do you believe he will be critical in the confusing but dangerous WF situation or the KL Dragonpit scenario or is he solely focused on finding weaknesses/rationales in the NK’s strategy?
Hodors Bastard,
What I WANT TO KNOW about the WW is this:
That one damn wight was obviously reanimated by a different WW than the one they killed. But why? Why only 1 out of all of them? I think it has to be a set up – I think it means that the NK WANTED the crew to take that wight to KL. This has all sorts of really intriguing explanations. Maybe he wants humanity to see it to give them a fighting chance. Maybe he’s hoping to find a “Night’s Queen” in Cersei.
I def think that NK set a trap to slay and revive the dragon so I really don’t see it as a stretch that he would also know that somehow giving these heros a wight to show off would be helpful to his cause.
One implication of this being all part of the NK plan MIGHT be that he could be the one who sent the vision to The Hound / BH. After all it was his vision of the arrowhead mountain that led them there… Bran’s vision only led them to Eastwatch in general. NK = R’hllor?! Or able to tap into fire magics somehow?! Or maybe The Hound just saw the future in the flames without there being any intent.
Jack Bauer 24,
and somehow if Portman hype an episode it’s always a big one. Can’t wait.
Hodors Bastard,
I think they can feel what’s dead and what’s human. And I don’t think Arya want to be in the skin of a WW. And I don’t think the magic that the many faced god provides works on WW.
A Big questions that’s on my mind the whole day is: who is the Lord of Light. We all know that something sends visions through the flames and that he must exist. But I’m wondering who it is. Is it Bran, is it Azor Ahai himself. Maybe the other part of the NK (that some part of him became Ice and some part became fire). Maybe it’s Sam and he will finally become a wizard.
And I was thinking about the prohecy, the prince who was promised,
(below speculation with book knowledge)
and about the Volanqar prohecy, if my prediction above are wrong and another prediction of my is right, Cercei and Jaime are really the children of the Mad King, would explain the incest, and we know that Valyrian doesn’t have a gender with words, maybe the Volanqar is really Dannereys.
I have a hard time finding anything respectful regarding Jaime these days. He has a serious lack of courage when dealing with his mad sister, he abandoned his defeated army at the Loot Train Battle after being saved by Bronn twice (!), was responsible for looting the Reach and Highgarden for royal gain, poisoned and pillaged House Tyrell, abandoned any defense of the Westerlands & Casterly Rock, and couldn’t have a meaningful conversation with his brother. Yes, it’s all part of chaotic war but I can’t respect his deeds (or lack thereof) this season. I would place Bronn well above him for MVP! 🙂
Hopefully, he does come to a tipping point during this episode though. I fear that there may be a vicious, bloody triangle established between him, Cersei and Brienne.
Stark Raven' Rad,
Great points! The goings-on at WF this season have been shaky at best where we don’t know who’s aware of what and/or to what extent. I think Sansa’s handling LF quite well so far; I don’t think she shared anything of consequence with him–at least insofar as I’ve seen. I don’t think the conversation about the scroll is too revealing and perhaps I am holding out hope that she, too, is drawing him out to show how treacherous he is. Again, that’s my hope and it’s what I’m going on as far as that goes.
As to her concern for Cersei and seemingly “short-sightedness” on the NK? I’d chalk that up as Sansa being concerned with the enemy she knows and, as Dany said to Jon, “You have to see it to know,” when referring to the NK and WW’s.
Sansa has never been a favorite of mine but she has managed to impress me considering where she started. She was a stupid girl who always wanted what she didn’t have while never appreciating what she did have. She said that and she’s convinced me that she means it.
Having said that, if LF is alive at the end of this evening’s finale, and she is the reason for that, if she protects him in some way, then she’s finished for me.
Stark Raven' Rad,
That comment is just a work of fiction and rhetorical questions, to which you have already assumed the worst answers.
I actually found it quite funny that one wight remained while the others fell. Was the WW babysitting that wight? It makes sense though that the NK would try to control the situation by “overriding” control of the wight from his general to himself.
I guess I’m in denial by how much power the NK revealed in that episode. Mind-boggling and quite intimidating for the end-game. Again, what does he want other than complete annihilation of the CotF and the pact that kept him up north for so long? There must be something he desires more than blood!
(Does Jon even know something? His words to Beric about the NK were intriguing)
I also concur with the vision stuff. I’ve been questioning the whole “vision” thing since Bran’s Hodor brainwash. If Bran and NK both can infiltrate minds, what’s preventing them from enabling visions in fires and voices in the wind? If that is possible, does that invalidate/corrupt the ways of R’hllor (or any omniscient force) in this tale?
Open chat!
That would be interesting, indeed.
I don’t know at this point in the story how many viewers find Jaime to be an irredeemable character. It was many early on I’m sure, but I’m sure many didn’t want to see Jaime die during the loot train battle. I was one of those conflicted, too.
I also don’t believe Jaime abandoned his soldiers; that battle was over, he was nearly drowned and I can’t see what else he could’ve done at that point. Walk back and say, “Yo…you forgot someone?”
As for his dealings with Cersei; you and I are on the same page. Just when he seems as if he’s about to see her for what she truly is, she manages to wrap him around her finger again. She knows how much he loves her. She uses it. I don’t believe she feels that devotion for him–not even close. Now, she’s pregnant. We see what she is; he doesn’t. He’s too close.
As I qualified why I would lose respect for Sansa, I submit that Jaime loses my respect if at the end of this finale he still openly supports Cersei, he’s finished for me, too. What a waste of an arc, in that case.
Good question. In my response to QoT, I was pondering similar stuff. If Bran and NK are truly omnipotent, it reduces the game to mental battle between the two and a physical battle for survival for everyone else. I don’t know how I feel about that. We must know what the NK wants…sooner than later. He’s been silent for too damn long! We need to know something!
If Samwell makes it to Winterfell in this episode, will he already know his BFF Jon Snow was resurrected from the dead after he was assassinated? Or will Bran or someone else tell him? I’m very curious to know how or if he finds out. It seems like no one raises the fact that Jon was LC of the Nights Watch and yet here he is now as King in the North having defeated The Boltons. Even Littlefinger and the Lords of the North seem to simply accept his leadership without noticing he left the Nights Watch. I think it’s a plot hole they could easily address with a few words, but I don’t recall anyone addressing it
Yes, that’s why I think it might be possible (with the same magic that makes her taller or darker or a different bone structure) but not for sure by any stretch!
I actually enjoyed the viewpoint from both sides during that battle, and especially the reactive, overwhelmed perspective of Jaime during the battle. Well done, indeed. When he charged Dany and Big D, that took amazing impulsive balls (although if I had my druthers, he would have sought an archer to assist him in targeting Dany!). 🙂
So, you’re right, my judgment of Jaime is not entirely fair. But in the end I was more impressed with Bronn than Jaime. Maybe Jaime could have struck a deal with Tyrion there (as a captive) then gone back to KL with the news to Cersei. Tyrion sneaking in KL deal didn’t sit well either….but oh well..like you, I believe a lot is riding on this episode for Jaime.
Well, remember, the longer it takes to come out, the higher the probability of your dying or civilization collapsing or other unfun stuff happening before then!
The closest I’ve seen anyone come to addressing the transition from the Night’s Watch to King was Tyrion as he and Jon ascended the steps of Dragonstone. Tyrion simply asks how that happened.
I’m interested in knowing how the writers decide what’s important to recall/revisit and what we are just to accept as having happened off screen or dropped from the dialog altogether. What you mention seems pretty important, at least to me.
Hodors Bastard,
Regarding Bronn, perhaps you’ve seen this?
http://imgur.com/5erzHvw
🙂
I have to disagree with you about Jaime, he still loves Cercei, I think in his mind he can make her change her mind, it’s just a blind spot with him, a very big one yes, but we all do stupid things for love.
about the loottrain, you clearly saw his face when his men got defeated and burned alive, he was devastated. He felt like he failed as a commander, that’s why he tried to attack Dany and end this war at that moment. After Bronn saved him he clearly knew that he couldn’t get his last man back, that they would have died or walk over to Dany, and if he tried to free them he would have died.
About Highgarden: It’s a war, he even gave Olenna a clean painless dead, what he did was mercy. He could have give her to Cercei but he didn’t he had to much respect for Ollena to have her killed in a painful way.
About leaving his men behind, he learned that trick from Robb, the one that we all rooted for in season 1,2 and 3, that started his war by sending 2000 men to their grave, he saw them in the face and he knew they were all going to die. If we can forgive Robb by killing 2000 of his own men we can forgive Jaime for letting ca 100 people die at Casterly Rock.
And he did have a meaningful conversation with his brother, he even told Cercei the plan of Tyrion. We just didn’t saw that conversation. But we saw the face of Jaime, all the hate that he had all this years toward his brother was gone, and he understood why Tyrion killed their father and you saw in his face that he missed his brother. I loved the acting of NCW in that scene.
A lot of who Jaime is and what he really thinks is show on his face the whole season, as he stated to Olenna, he went to far so what’s the point of stopping this path. We all know how this will end, everything that is boiled up last couple of seasons will come out eventually and he will see Cercei for who she really is, a monster that needs to be put down.
about lord of light speculation: I hope they will resolve this sooner or later. Personally I think it’s Bran for now on, we just have too little information for the other options.
I bet you’re a blast at parties. 🙂
Sure, but then I don’t have to see my favourite characters (that remain) potentially die! As for civilization collapsing, well….
That would be completely at odds with this sort of story, wouldn’t it be? At any rate, there is no indication that either is anywhere near omnipotent. Bran might be able to see a lot, but he’s not even close to being omniscient: he might have access to knowledge if he delves for it, but he has finite time to delve and finite knowledge about for what to delve. Bran also does not seem to have any powers other than a huge (albeit very huge!) historical database and some limited foresight: Bran cannot revive the dead like R’hllor can, he cannot cast major magical spells, etc. Knowledge is power, to be certain, but there are powers other than knowledge.
As for the Night King, he, too, clearly has a range of powers. But: he couldn’t take down the Wall on his own. (A dragon might help there, but he still needed a dragon.) He was effectively out-of-the-picture for centuries and it took him considerable time to raise an army big enough to do whatever it is that he wants to do.
I still think that the “why” of the Night King’s return is a huge issue here. It should be part of the same coin concerning the “why” of the Night King’s disappearance (?defeat ?withdrawal ?truce) centuries before. Bran ultimately might see why that was (which, although well short of omnipotent, is still pretty damn powerful).
And, of course, that largely pointless “male bonding” blather last week was not 100% fan-servicing. Beric & Jon hung a pretty big “What does R’hllor want from us?” gun there. What does R’hllor want? How does it fit into this whole tawdry mess?
Indeed, are our three dragon heads going to be the Tree-God, the Night-God and the Red-God? Maybe that’s what Jon, Daenerys & Tyrion are going to have to “ride” in the end.
Cue R.E.M.?
See above…. 😀
Yeah, I have to agree: just looking like a wight would not be enough to fool them. Both Walkers and wights seem to sense the living in some way different from mere sight. (Given that so many of the wights have lost their eyes, yet still can target and attack people, that almost has to be the case.) The Faceless Men’s tricks, which are so effective against visually oriented humans, probably would be useless against the Walkers.
I wonder if Sue and crew have Curtain Calls in the can, ready to go. I imagine anyone who goes tonight will require a lengthy obit. Not sure if I’m looking forward to that, but we shall see. Just over 3 hours to go…..!!
Where’s DEE??
Yeah, that’s probably the majority of the issue about Jaime for me….as I mentioned to Erica before, his actions at the Loot Train Battle were impressive and ballsy.
Jaime is seriously blinded by “love”, if that’s what it is anymore. Blinded so much, he seems to have conveniently forgotten that his great discreet deed in life was to save KL from the transformational whims of the Mad King via wildfire. I think his reaction to Cersei (who was able to carry out what he tried to prevent!) would be more than a cocked head and a concerned expression. (!) I believe he is only in it (pregancy or not) to save his Lannister house from extinction.
Erica,
My picks:
1. Daenerys
2. Sam
3. The Hound
4. Jon
5. Arya
When the Hound kicks the captured wight, a collective cry (or at least, an audible reaction) went up among many of the wights that surrounded Jon and the boys. And, as you pointed out, many of those wights lack eyes, so, there must be some deeper connection there in how they relate to each other.
Nice list, although I wouldn’t include Arya. I don’t see what she’s done YET that has moved anything or anyone forward this season. Taking out LF would be a hell of a contribution, though! And, I can watch that sparring session between her and Brienne a million times and never tire of it.
They can not kill off Cersei. It does not matter how much we all want her to die. They need her for conflict next season. The White Walkers are a great foe, but horrible characters. An entire season against an enemy who does not speak would not make for good TV. They need Cersai for the dialog if nothing else.
Yeah, we’re forced to act like 5-year-olds and ask “why, why” all the time now. We need a character vendor selling clues for $5! Everyone will be asking “Why, why, why…” until they realize they’re dead! (Nothingness…just nothing)
Btw, I couldn’t stop listening to Jethro Tull last night…Thx!…A retro evening. I just queued up hundreds of his YouTube concert vids in the background and wrote til dawn…
You should read my comment on the Faith article from a few days back. Like to know your reaction.
Enjoy the episode, W!
That is a great description: the Walkers are adversaries, but never antagonists. My money (dollars, crowns and galleons) is on Cersei rejecting the reality of the Walker threat, and basically creating continued problems for Jon, Daenerys & Co. by refusing to halt the war for the Throne. My additional money is on this being (or leading to) the circumstances where she and Jaime kill each other.
Hodors Bastard,
True, that’s why I hope that in the final it will come to a conclusion, it’s not something that needs to wait till the last season. I really hope he will change sides to go to team Don (or Jany).
I also hope that there will be a scene where Jaime apologize to Deanerys for killing her father and that Deanerys reply with that he doesn’t have anything to apologize for, that he did was best for the kingdom and that she know her father was an evil man. I would love to see what happened when that weight is lifted from his shoulders.
that’s what I love about his character, especially in the books, at first sight you see somebody who is evil at heart. Later you begin to understand that he put on walls (mentally) because of what happened when he killed the Mad King, he tried to be a hero at that moment and Ned judged him as a villain and spread the world through Westeros. If Ned never judged him at that moment, Jaime would be very different than he is right now.
LMFAO!!!!!! You’ve been talking with Jack, haven’t you?
I’ll track that down!
On a side Jethro Tull note, I used to play & sing the song “One Brown Mouse” for my son as a lullaby. The Tull’s (and Ian Anderson’s) catalog is quite eclectic that way.
One thing that never gets brought up… Where are the juvenile WW? We saw one of Craster’s sons changed and there should be several more that are not yet grown. In the back of my mind I did partially expect to see an ice castle, cave or something at some point where they gather. The closest we got to a ‘home location’ was where that baby was delivered to the NK. So where the hell did the baby go after that?
Erica,
She usually isn’t around during the weekend. We should see her tomorrow. 🙂
Where is the episode chat?
ETA: That was fast!
Ginevra,
I particularly appreciated Wimsey’s use of the Orwellian “unfun.” LMAO!
Depends, maybe if we learn something big in the final, the NK could be a “human” foe. we don’t know what he wants. And there are many things how the story could progress further. Other conflicts. What if next season the truth about Jon comes out, the people want Jon and not Dany, what if Dany mentally breaks because of that and don’t want to be set aside. We all know she wants to rule.
We only have 6 episodes next season. the WW are the big foe, the bigger construct of the last season needs to be the WW, the battles, probably some losses. We don’t need a big enemy like Cercei, what we need is inner conflict. Can Jaime find his humanity again? Can Sansa set aside her will to govern and be number 2? Will Jon listen to Sansa’s advise for once, how will he react to the responsibility of being a Targ? Will Arya find her humanity again? Will Bran find his Humanity again? Can Dany be a number 2? All big conflicts that can play a great part in the last season. It would be nice if Cercei will be in the last season, but she’s not needed.
Wimsey,
Re: The “Big Why” –
I’m waiting for my Ultra Heavy Duty Tinfoil explanations to get blown out of the water tonight. If they don’t, maybe I’ll muster the courage to post them so they can get ripped to shreds like Wylis in his last moments.
[Too soon?]
Clob,
Yeah. I’ve been waiting to see a WW elementary school with all of Craster’s babies. Unless the NK can age them up overnight.
Pigeon,
Awesome! Please come back ASAP 🙂 Anne will always be here.
Enjoy the season finale everyone! I can’t believe it’s nearly here. I agree that characterization could have been vastly improved however the shots they’ve been getting are stunning.
heh, just remember: we all have our own pet tinfoil hat ideas. And there will almost certainly be a lot of tinfoil hats being sold for scrap metal
heh, I haven’t had a good conversation with Jack since I was 20!
Er, we are referring to Daniels, aren’t we?
7-Up shaped my generation’s vocabulary, I’m afraid….
Ten Bears,
Tell them in spoilertags 😀
Another question that I have is why they changed the format of the show from: dragons and boob’s to just “dragons”. Very important questions.
Now a serious question: will we ever see Daario again? I hope he will at least in season 8.
Js,
I’m just afraid that after the whole dog and pony show with Wilbur the Captured Wight [placeholder name], Cersei will laugh and say “That shrieking little fella is the best you can do?
Lemme show you a real state of the art Undead Soldier. … Sir Gregor?”
Or when the curtain goes up, Wilbur decides to make believe he’s really dead and doesn’t cooperate.
Seriously, I don’t expect Cersei to be impressed. She’d rather be queen for a few weeks than try to help humanity survive.
Do you mean in this episode? I’m still thinking there might not be any deaths in the finale. At least I don’t think think there will be any in KL. Any sort of hostile action by either side would be unwise. I’m assuming those characters will spend the episode preparing to meet, meeting and then some aftermath of the meeting. That doesn’t leave many main characters “unprotected.” Everyone appears to be beyond ready for Littlefinger to finally die, but can he weasel his way to the final season? I really hope not since his schtick is beyond old, but we need Arya to get back to something that fits with her character.
I’m fine with never seeing Daario again.
Clob,
I personally hope he will have one scene in the show again. Even if it will be in the last episode of the whole show, just to let Deanerys and the audience know that peace is still there in dragons bay.
Jack Bauer 24. He’s been preaching darkness, death, and doom all season, and I thought he’d rubbed off on you.
Tamwell Sarly,
No. I think it was just extra strength wine. But wherever it was, consider all of the variables in the “plan” that would all have to play out a specific way at the same time and place for it to result in a fatal injury. Unless of course the boar was a co-conspirator paid off to gore the king while getting speared himself.
Sorry if I sound sarcastic. I’ve seen real hard core drinks function in blackout mode, with no recollection of what they did. (Kind of how Thoros described his supposed “bravery” at the siege of Pyke.)
I think you are right. Be interesting to see. Also with Bran as 3ER, does he see and know what the NK knows? Will we somehow have a battle between the two of them, all in their minds?mmmmm
You live there?! Wow! It has just always been such a great memory and a place that immediately felt like home. I admit to often perusing the realty sites and oogling the lovely little homes (and the prices! Goodness they are reasonable compared to here!) So much history. Yes, I did go to Green Gables, and the Haunted Woods trees actually creaked! I couldn’t believe it, it was awesome. I suppose someone could have installed speakers or something, but dang it I am clinging to the memory. Heehee! They were just building the bridge when I was there. Still have my little container of red soil. 😊