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“Thousands of men don’t need to die… only one of us.”
Terms of surrender are rejected and accepted.
Have a look at the official episode photos here.
“Battle of the Bastards” is directed by Miguel Sapochnik, who fans will fondly remember for making Hardhome the incredible sequence that it is. With him helming a full-scale battle this time around, I think it’s safe to say we’re in for another treat. The episode is written by David Benioff and Dan Weiss.
Cian: Despite all of the promotional material omitting storylines other than the titular battle, it does seem as though we will be visiting at least one other location during this hour of the show. It would have been a nice surprise to go in ignorant of that fact, but the internet will be the internet. In terms of the battle itself, no matter what I say here will probably undersell the anticipation everyone is feeling, so… I hope you all enjoy the episode!
Hodor!
“If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention”
š
Am I the only person more excited about the Meereen storyline … Like Sansa is still my favourite character but from all the filming spoilers we kinda know how it’s going to end … Or at least where it’s heading … But with Meereen we know nothing and I can’t wait to see what goes down there … We’ve had 2 proper scenes with the dragons this year … These last 2 episodes have to feature the dragons in a big way
I think a lot of people will be ignorant of the fact that we are going elsewhere to be honest. It will only be the uberfans who will be aware. I personally think it is an strange thing to complain about anyway as it isn’t a spoiler, but each to their own.
Posting this again, in case anyone missed it the other day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHlN3ur8ilg
It’s a fan-made video preview & they did a fantastic job š
Sansa’s Knight,
no I am excited about Mereen scenes too..because we get to see Yara/Theon team up with Dany and we FINALLY almost 100% for sure know Dany is heading west when its over!!
Some of the storytelling decisions last episode bummed me out (mostly arya, dorne is one thing… but to throw away 2 seasons of work like its nothing….), so hoping this episode really makes up for it.
im not super hyped right now…. but i do think this has the potential to be the best episode of the series.
i just dont want to keep my expectations too high
Jon Snow leading his army straight to the slaughter with no strategy whatsoever ….
And Ramsey Bolton being the wise and strategic battle comamnder….
Why didnĀ“t they use the ice lake from the books?
DAVID AND DAN ARE LAUGHING AT US! THEY ARE ALL LAUGING AT US I CAN HEAR THEM IN MY SLEEP!
š
Ugh, we already started..
See you all after the episode.
You know what they missed in the promo …
That shot of Jon on ground facing the approaching horses should have added in the promo..
Iam looking forward to meereen and I hope its gets 20 mins at the least and doesn’t rush everything like previous epiodes there did ..given the amount of characters going to br there hoping 20 mins is reasonable ..
All aboard the Hype Train to Bastardville
Sansa’s Knight,
No you are not the only one …iam looking forward to yara and theon meeting dany..
And i hope that they have a scene of dany going into catacombs and have a chat with rhaegal and viserion ..
And After that i hope we get to see her showing control over her three dragons and using them to fight the masters
Sansa’s Knight,
I agree. The first real battle involving dragons, I hope.
Generally speaking
Looking forward to the ebbs and flows of the battle, and in particular the story it tells
Half the reason Hardhome was as good as it was is because it told a variety of stories, eg how the Thenn came round to Jons POV etc
In terms of Meereen, hoping that the Ironborn will take some of those Masters as Thralls as is their custom, will have to see. Hopefully we get to see some good example of Naval battle maneauvers and formations rather than just random-looking ships crashing into eachother – would really go a long way to emphasize why the Ironborn are the best Navy etc
Another thing I’m curious about is if we see that shot of the Harpies looking up after getting all stabby. Part of me is very curious to see what impact all the R’hlorrist preachers have had, eg will it make the freedslaves like the Sparrows where they’ll just go fanatically nutcase on the Sparrows and “worship” Dany
Sansa’s Knight,
Yeah now that Sansa is there, I finally care a little about Jon’s story. It always bored me, even in the books.
Yeah there’s some question marks about the build-up, Jon shouldn’t be engaging in pitched battle with the Army he has, nevertheless I’m curious to see what magic Sapochnik pulls out of his hat
I get a sense that I will still be amazed/overawed even though I have an inkling on some of the things that may happen
Sansa’s Knight,
Everybody agrees with you, I will be the first to disagree š . Dragons will do the one thing they know to do..burn shit up š . It will always be Jon first for me. I am interested in Team Greyjoy meeting Team Dany though .
This episode has so much potential. I hope that it doesn’t suffer from over-hype induced anti-climax. I’m sure it won’t, as the preview looks amazing.
You guys have changed my mind on Mereen. Even when those ships started attacking last week, I still felt so bored and underwhelmed by the whole thing. It was nice to see it aligning with the book plot (i.e. the attack on Mereen), but I still didn’t feel too invested in the storyline. I love Tyrion, but even though he’s there, I didn’t feel too engaged in what was going on there. Now though, I’m looking forward to how they will incorporate the dragons in battle and also the
I might have to stay up till 2am again for this one! I haven’t been doing that with the past few episodes, but this one has too much potential to be amazing!
Mihnea,
I probably won’t be here after the episode
So depressing lol!!
I’m so excited about the BOB, first and foremost, but I’m looking forward also to the meeting of Dany and the Greyjoys. People who frequent sites like this may know where BOB is headed but majority of viewers don’t. I actually don’t really know as I’ve been avoiding spoilers so I’m prepared to be surprised, heartbroken (although I hope not), and amazed!
ghost of winterfell,
Yes!
HYPEEEEEE
(With caution to some so they don’t get disappointment hahaha)
Awww… you’ll be missed!
Sam,
Thank you!!! I’ll definately throw in my “this was AMAZING comment” lol
Because I’m sure I’m gonna enjoy the next episode – the preview alone looks better than all the episodes we have seen Thus far.
But sometimes I come here so excited and just end up getting depressed š
Hoyti Von Totiy,
From this comment and comments you have made on other threads the last few days it seems that your theory that the show will portray Jon as a dumb commander with no battle strategy and Ramsay as a brilliant strategist is being based entirely on the photos and preview video. Come on! Haven’ t we learned that released photos rarely tell the whole story as to what will actually take place in the episode?
I just watched Hardhome again… to whet my appetite. It’s still amazing to me after so many rewatches. Sapochnik is a very talented director.
Dee Stark,
I know what you mean! I just skip, skip, skip on depressing posts LOL. Will look forward to your “AMAZING!” post.
Lord of Coffee,
It`s known it will be a straight charge into Ramsey`s forces from the trailers….
He is outnumbered 6 to 1 and his plan is to ride straight to Winterfell and charge directly into an army 6 times larger than his!?
DireWolfHeart,
Thank you for posting this again. Was looking for it in the other thread. Love this video!
Sam,
Hahahah š
Thank you!!!!!
Sansa’s Knight,
We have some idea from ADWD and there were some location pics from dragon central not to mention those fight sequences in the trailer. Looking fowRd to how thus plays out. Finally something going down in slavers bay.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Iam curious about what you think of Jon’s decision to march to winterfell before getting stabbed in the books..
Sansa’s Knight,
I think the BOB will be epic, but I’m looking forward to Meereen and the possibility of seeing the dragons and the Ironborn in a naval battle. Hopefully the CGI is top notch. Also looking forward to maybe seeing the dothraki taking out the harpies.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
But, again, you can’t make assumptions like that from a couple second clip on a trailer. And where are you getting that they are outnumbered 6 to 1? Isn’t it supposed to be more like 2 to 1.
I am hoping to be pleasantly surprised by the Battle of the Bastards. If we get any Manderley or Umber turning cloak, I’ll be happy. If we get Brienne and Pod making it back north, I’ll be happy. If we get any sign of strategy from Jon other than just him basically wanting to die, I’ll be happy. I’m just so worried we won’t get any of those… It seems to be SO set up for Jon suicide attack then LF joining them just in time for 90% of both armies to die (how convenient). But again, sometimes the show does surprise me. I’m just not that hopeful after what happened with Arya’s story.
However, I know I will be surprised
And it’s maybe a pipe dream but I really hope that they show Tyrion directly interacting with the Dragons again… it was so exhilarating the first time and I’m sure they haven’t done more because of budget reasons (much cheaper to film scenes with Tyrion/GW/Missandei/Varys talking). But this episode they should have a pretty big dragon budget! How epic would it be if Tyrion gets into some kind of trouble during the chaos, and Viserion swoops down to save him – just like Dany and Drogon last season? I would flip out.
Lord of Coffee,
In fact it’s very hard to discuss military strategy, because the show runners have little to none understanding of the medieval tactics of combat (and GRRM has even less). For instance, look at Ramsay’s army – the debt of the formation is too deep, 2/3 of the soldiers would not get a chance to raise their swords under such circumstances. The cavalry stands in lines, whereas the most popular cavalry formation was “a pig” which was meant to draw a wedge into the enemy’s lines, then break through take turn and attack from the rear. And if the cavalry was aligned in lines, there had to be 3 lines, not 10, because horses don’t do well when they cram on one another. And the Bolton shields are a total LOL and LMAO – they are too big and there are good reasons why the proportions of the infantry shields have not changed from the Antiquity till present (look at the police shields).
But in general, having some knowledge of the medieval warfare, I have to admit that sometimes a straightforward attack of a motivated army proved to be the best tactical solution.
All I can say is look at their faces, I really don’t think there is anyway that Ramsay hasn’t killed rickon (and very likely flayed him). If job wants to negotiate initially there has to be something that entices a full attack. Plus the show likes to top itself in making the audience feel sick and after shireen last year I think this is likely how they’ll do it.
Edit. At this point why does Ramsay need a hostage
āThousands of men donāt need to dieā¦ only one of us.ā
And may it be the Bolton Bastard, Ramsay Snow!
Interesting to see dragons and hopefully 20 minutes is enough for Meereen. It’s called Battle of Bastards not Bastards and Meereen. So main focus is in the North as this is the biggest battle sequence. Looking forward to interactions with Yara and Daeny. Hopefully Ghost will show up in the battle because he’s nowhere to be seen. His bond with Jon is not even half as strong as in the books.
What do you think. Will we get three dragon riders or simply Daeny will control all of them? Since Tyrion’s scene with dragons no interactions with him and dragons.
I pray for a glimpse of Jon’s character development, but HBO shows me only artificial drama.
I really hope the plan for this battle is for Jon to draw out Ramsay and last long enough for the Falcons of Arryn to arrive. And for Sansa to tell him about said Falcons. It’s probably the only way they won’t come across as idiots because of the show’s boner for Ramsay and Littlefinger.
Can’t say I care much for Queen 50 titles and her battle. I doubt we’re losing any supporting players there and she’s so overpowered it eliminates any tension in her scenes.
Yeah, the whole 30 mins flowed so smoothly, nothing seemed odd or out of place and I was glued to the screen
Not just that, the show and episode was a Medieval drama and when the Dogs started barking it instantaneously turned into a horror show so convincingly, which is perhaps the sign of a fantastic director,
eg just as actors like Alfie Allen can not only play different styles so well, but play the very same character so differently, we have an episode that not only totally flipped genres so well, but did each genre nicely, eg Karsi in the negotiation Hut etc as much as during the massacre
Probably the best 30 mins of TV I can think of watching, hopefully until this coming episode
If Sapochnik pulls this off even with all the hype and anticipation it’s fair to say his star is certainly rising
QueenofThrones,
Nothing against your theory .if you ask me it won’t happen and I think there is a more chance we will be getting dany interacting with them and control them so finally putting an end to all the speculations that they are angry towards her or she can’t control them..
Inga,
Very interesting. I would not be surprised though if GRRM is familiar with medieval battle tactics since he seems to have a great deal of historical knowledge overall. But for the show I can understand why they may use tactics that add to visual appeal or drama but aren’t historically accurate.
Yeah I’ll be interested to see what the plan is, would have figured he at least needed the Manderly’s and more minor Houses onside before engaging. Should have got the Wildlings to begin Guerilla warfare to disrupt all 3 of the Karstarks, Umbers and Boltons to concentrate their forces but anyway…
Technically the movement of the Vale Army shouldn’t be a secret, eg they are marching directly North of the Lannisters, possibly have to cross through the Twins, though even if they keep to the eastern side they will still be presumably visible and this would have been reported to the 8000 strong force of Lannisters in the area besieging Riverrun.
If they are encamped around Moat Cailin the Bolton forces holding it should have reported it. If the Vale forces quickly stormed it then its loss would have been reported.
What I had been hoping was for them to be aware of it, but Boltons think it’s contained, the notion of Ramsay attacking quickly before Jon and Sansa can get many more Houses together would have made more sense out of the “Army we have” conversation.
If Boltons think it isn’t a direct issue but then Howland Reed comes out of nowhere and gets the Crannogmen from the Neck to besiege and storm it quickly on the even of battle, thus allowing the Vale forces to get through then Vale saves the day makes sense. But to be totally blindsided does not
Have to say the books have been a bit better, eg through the Northern Clansmen we see the issues involved in winter warfare, we see a slow sabotage of the Boltons, we see traps for the Freys, slowly slowly undermining their forces. Pink Letter discusses 7 days of battle, so a battle of attrition
Regardless of this, there might be some pre-battle twists to allay my nagging concerns, plus I’m confident Sapochnik will weave his magic with what he’s been given
As for Meereen, I’m more excited for Yara directing the Greyjoy Fleet against the Masters and smashing them than I am for the “Dany takes charge” angle
dragonbringer,
I’m a Daenerys fan too but I don’t think that means she has to be the only one who bonds to a dragon. Indeed Targaryen history shows us that a human should only be capable of bonding to one dragon at a time. They have left that lore out of the show, though, so it’s possible they will go your way in the show, if only because it’s much more expensive to animate three dragons with riders than just one with two tag-alongs.
However I’m 99% sure in the books that Jon and Tyrion will ride the other two dragons eventually. Maybe D&D just decided they don’t like the idea of 3 primary characters riding dragons (too “cheesy” or whatever).
I’m hoping this is for budget reasons and Tyrion will indeed interact with one of the other dragons. They used their “Tyrion + dragons” budget on two episodes – that early one and then whatever happens here…
Lord of Coffee,
Don’t bother, he has made up his mind. “No ice lake = sucks”.
Prayer Circle for Tormund
Prayer Circle for Davos
Prayer Circle for Podrick
I’m so nervous you guys… š
Flayed Potatoes,
‘Queen of 50 titles’ – lol! I may be alone but I actually like the running theme of Dany continually adding titles to her name and others ( well mainly Tyrion) kind of mocking her for it (when she’s not around of course). I hope that by the time she gets to Westeros she has added at least two or three more. I’m sure they will never meet but I still like to imagine the reaction of Bronn having to listen to someone recite her titles for five minutes!
I’ve been looking forward to this episode all season!
Miguel Sapochnick directing a braveheart-style battle? I AM HYPED!!
Make Ramsay squeal like a piggy!
I’m sooo excited for mereen if we see it!!! I’m so ready come on Sunday night
They have released a picture of the letter that Sansa wrote to the Blackfish that Brienne delivered!!
http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/sansas-letter-to-blackfish
Apologies if this has already been posted.
Instead we will get Magic Ramsay? I doubt it. He also dosn’t seem nearly such a tough nut to crack in the books as in the show. They make him a strategic genius and a videogame endboss in 1:1, whereas book-Ramsay probably could be taken on by a normal soldier, and his strategic skill doesn’t seem more than the average manipulative psychopath’s with a false veneer (not the same as a great mind) or any other battle commander’s.
Ghosts Lunch,
The problem with Jon and the Wildlings using guerilla warfare tactics is that it reinforces the stereotype that Wildlings only raid and pillage, which would get even more houses to side with the Boltons. By using Wildlings and Northern soldiers together as an organized force, you can argue that Jon is showing that he has control over the Wildlings and that they can be reasoned with.
I think the Boltons think LF is on their side, which is why the Vale knights are garrisoned at Moat Cailin so easily. Or the place wasn’t guarded so heavily because Roose brought all his soldiers to face Stannis.
Lord of Coffee,
She should recite them to the NK and see what he’ll do lol.
Halfman,
“your sister”, “family, honour, duty”
No wonder he rejected her lmao. Jk.
QueenofThrones,
Trust me being a dany fan as nothing to do with this ..
The targaryens and dragons from the past and thier lore does not come to play when we consider dany and her dragons..
She and her dragons are completely different from them because no one ever got three dragon eggs presented to them and no one ever hatched tye dragons like she did and she has sacrificed lives for it…just didnt get them on the side of the road.
I wouldnt mind one bit if jon and bran or tyrion ended up on a dragon because i too believed in that when i first read the series ….infact getting summer killed makes me think bran will get one..
If budget is an issue then there should never been that tyrion scene in the first place ..they could have easily had dany go and free them like they are going to do in this episode ( its my hunch dany will go to them and free them out of cave like I had the hunch that it will dany who will do the burning )..
If there is three riders in the books then there will be three riders in the show as well.
Flayed Potatoes,
Rather surprising that they’d make such glaring errors although it’s only a prop so I guess it’s not important.
Yeah, whoops! Looks like who ever did that prop forgot to refer to the Tully family tree. Oh well. Besides that “Your Sister” thing I think it’s a great letter.
As for “Family, Honour, Duty” I think it’s established that the Tullies will often swap the three parts of their motto as fits the situation. In this case, Family is first of course – then Honor next: restoring the honor of Winterfell by ridding it of the Bolton parasites. Duty is put last since technically speaking BF’s duty is probably to stay at Riverrun.
Lord of Coffee,
Have you been watching the show ..
Tyrion has used her titles more than dany did.
And if you think that he is mocking that in those scenes then you are very much wrong.
The ones I have been seeing whining about titles are nothing but jealous haters …why jealous because i have seen many times they go around give titles to their favorite which makes this whining pathetic
Which is meaningless when fighting that way means certain defeat.
Sam,
YW! I actually found it on I can Haz cheezburger, of all places. Yes, this video was brought to you by LoLCats.
Honestly, I think Meereen would have been more interesting if it was under siege all season. We’ve never had a city under siege in the show, closest thing is Riverrun and even that was over and done rather quick. Having Tyrion deal with a real siege would have been far more interesting than him twiddling his thumbs waiting for Dany.
Halfman,
I thought I misheard her when she said “uncle” in ep5 (should have been granduncle).
Dee Stark,
It’s a serious bummer when people are already complaining about what happens in the episode when the episode hasn’t even aired yet…
jentario,
I think it should have been that way since last season..
I guess they couldnt come up with a way to get tyrion inside the city to meet dany whole there is siege outside..
Well, he manipulated the whole North in ACOK when he burned WF.
That’s not in my opinion how good storytelling works. There is a reason that George chose to tell us in Dance with Dragons that Dragonriders can only bond to a single dragon. He didn’t just throw it in there for shits and giggles. If Dany’s dragons “work” in a completely different way than previous dragons there is no evidence of this to date. George would have had to set up this up with some kind of exposition or background information if it was going to make sense. Instead, he made the choice to set up the lore that Dany can only ride one of her dragons. And several cases in Dany’s PoV indicate that she believes others will ride the dragons at her side.
Dragons have been hatched under many different circumstances. There is nothing to suggest that more than one have not hatched at once in the past or that somehow her dragons are more special than any others, and absolutely no indication they wouldn’t follow the same “rules” as other dragons.
I wouldn’t be so confident that show and books will agree on this issue. Whenever budget, logistics, or practicality conflicts with plot elements in an adaptation, there’s a chance that budget will win out. Especially if they can find a way to keep the plot otherwise similar without having to put actors on imaginary creatures.
As for why they include the Tyrion scene, if there are budget issues, that type of scene is much less costly than one where people are actually riding dragons. They have only so much time (from the animators) and money to work with.
Ultimately, If they want to have Tyrion as a dragonrider they needed to set it up with at least one meeting prior to the big event – so that scene is absolutely necessary in that case. If they don’t want to have him be a dragonrider, the scene serves as simply a great dramatic scene, which it was – easily the top of the season for Tyrion so far.
QueenofThrones,
I’m not certain of the technicalities of medieval diplomacy, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was customary to address such a letter to the Lord of the lands/castle/forces you are addressing, even if it’s not going to reach them specifically.
I might be wrong, but I find it hard to believe that they would make such a mistake and then still put it online.
Also, we saw Sansa forget the words to the oath when Brienne was offering her services. It may be that she made a mistake with the Tully words, demonstrating further how out of practice she is with the formalities of being a noblewoman, having been basically a hostage for the last few years.
Or, as you say, it could have been rearranged for effect, emphasising family and duty as the framing aspects of the request.
jentario,
I agree, but not all season. From E5 or 6.
Maybe it was too expensive to show refugee crisis, starving inside the city and all that.
But Dany would then come to save the day and some people would complain again, so complaints are unavoidable.
dragonbringer,
But Tyrion doesn’t recite all her titles. He starts then after the first couple just says something like ‘and all that’. Seems pretty clear he is poking at her arrogance, at least a little bit, which is completely in character for him to do.
And, yes, I have been watching the show. Thanks for asking.
Sam,
Eh, I call my grand uncles “uncle” too. I don’t think that part is a mistake. It’s like cousin – typically we just say cousin whether its first/second, once removed etc.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
I just think that for whatever reason the props person was under the mistaken believe that Blackfish is Edmure and Catelyn’s older brother. Which of course makes no sense at all when you consider the plot of Episode 7-8, but the props person may not have been privy to that much information about the story.
You may be right that we are meant to see the mistake about the Tully motto as Sansa’s mistake. As she is right now in the story she clearly cares much less about formality than she used to. There are much more important things to her than remembering her courtesies – like getting Ramsey’s head on a spike. š
We can call Meereen “The Battle for the Bitches” or “The Bitch is Back.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdrFBwwWJ44
Love!
Wasn’t there a casting for a northern lord to give a speech and switch sides before or during the battle,possibly the Manderlys?
Greyjoy Infrastructure,
It was, but many fans believe that he will be part of E10.
Lord-too-fat-to-sit-a-horse. If he’s appearing then I’d love it if he was played by Robbie Coltrane.
GOD Dany’s storyline is so boring. Why won’t anything happen??
*Dany does something ridiculously badass*
UGH why does Dany get all these badass moments!? It’s so unfair! She’s stealing screen time from [my favorite]!
mau,
So the fallout of the battle will possibly not be decided until the beginning of episode 10?
Lord of Coffee,
Tyrion admires her after everything she accomplished so far but all those titles are little irritating to him.
QueenofThrones,
You might be right. But then D&D make Daeny fireproof very clearly to make her special, so perhaps controlling three dragons in the show but three riders in the books could make sense. It might be a bit cheesy for all three of them to ride a dragon and also budget reasons. I always envisioned Jon leading troops from the ground, Tyrion well only dragon could make him useful against walkers otherwise no idea where would be Tyrion helpful. Then Bran is supposed to fly.
Sean C.,
Yeah. Jon doesn’t have any options left except relying on the Vale. And hopefully once he wins, the Northern houses who didn’t join him see that.
Lord of Coffee,
Dany so far as used them when asked about who she is ..
Yeah and dany says every oneof her titles …you see what you want to see…
Just a reminder that it is a medival world andpeople use the titles every time…the characters don’t see like you do..so please don’t project your views on them..
The fact you see dany and her titles more is because she is the only one we have seen ruling in the entire series and hold courts ..
And the fact that writers dont give her any other linethan that.
Logistics, Strategy, and battle planning are Tyrion’s strength, along with knowledge and lore of the White Walkers, dragons, etc. These things are just as essential to victory as the actual fighting. Even if he rides a dragon I think that’s what he’d be doing primarily. Dragons are a great way to get around the battlefield quickly. š
I used to think Bran as dragonrider / warger would be interesting. Still possible I guess! Maybe that’s how they’ll have the other two dragons controlled – just have Bran Warg them.
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve watched this preview. Practically, I don’t need to see it again – I’ve memorized every beat and frame. So I’ve tried to stop, but I can’t. I’m addicted, and the only way to ease the craving is to hit the refresh button.
I’m concerned that witnessing the glory of the full 60 minute episode itself will actually kill me. I’d rather not die before I have the chance to watch the season finale. š
dragonbringer,
Why are you so upset? It’s quite clear that Tyrion is poking a bit of fun at Dany with that line. He likes her, and respects her a great deal, buuut he thinks it’s just a bit silly that she has so many titles. He’s not saying she’s terrible or she sucks or anything. It’s just like usual with Tyrion – he can’t help but make a joke when the opportunity arises (foot in mouth disease).
Chill out, no one is hating on Dany.
Don’t watch it on Sunday, wait a week, watch the finale before episode 9, then die? That would work.
Yeah, I’m okay with the “uncle” part since I called my great aunts “Aunt Sal” and “Aunt Fan.” But it’s funny that Sansa got her mother’s house words in the wrong order and forgot the Blackfish was her mother’s uncle, while Edmure was her mother’s only brother.
My predictions for episodes 9 & 10
1. The Starks almost lose the Battle, but the Knights of the Vale save the day.
2. Yara and the Greyjoys win a sea battle against the Mastersā Ships. Once Yara sees Danny, she Falls in Lust with herā¦the Greyjoys plus the Mastersā Ships provide transportation for Danny and her cohorts to Westeros.
3. The Dragons and the Dothraki Hordes with wreck havoc on the remaining Sons of the Harpy.
4. Grey Worm and Missandei will stay over and rule in Meereen in Dannyās name along with part of the Unsullied and part of the Dothraki as enforcers.
5. Daario will die in episode 10, regardless of whether heās the leader of the Sons of the Harpy or not.
6. Cersei will blow up the Sept of Baelor with Wildfire in episode 10. The High Sparrow and Margaery will die, amongst many others.
7. Tommen will die in episode 10, either in the fire, or as a suicide after Margaery dies, or killed accidentally by the Mountain.
8. Kevan Lannister and Pycelle will die in episode 10.
9. Olenna and Varys have a secret meeting with Ellaria in Dorne about Danny. That letter Olenna was writing while talking to Cersei? It was to Varys or Ellariaā¦
10. Ghost will kill Ramsey.
11. Davos will try to kill Mel after he figures out what happened to Shireen, but before he can do it, Mel shows him something in the flames that makes him reconsider.
12. Arya shows up in the Riverlands in episode 10, heads in the direction of the Twins; may or may not reconnect with the Hound and the Brotherhood before seasonās end; the Brotherhood is on they way North, but they are going to make a stop at the Twins on the way (this may not be shown until next season)
13. After Jaime hears about what happened in Kingās Landing, heāll head to Casterly Rock (where Cersei takes refuge fleeing after what happened in episode 10) and kill Cersei (season 7)
14. Sansa tries to kill Littlefinger in the Winterfell Godswood, but Littlefinger āstays her handā by promising to reveal āa little secretā about Jonā¦
15. Bran has the rest of the TOJ flashback in episode 10. He also has a āflashforwardā about the White Walkers (āThey have no idea whatās going to happenā)
16. Sam has an āEurekaā moment in the Citadel, this gets interrupted before we know what it is by an attack on Oldtown by Euronās fleet (presumably looking for trees/wood for his āone thousand shipsā; remember the list of the many trees available in the Oldtown-Highgarden area that Sam rattled off to Gilly in episode 6?)
17. Bran, Meera and Benjen make it to the Wall in episode 10; Branās Mark deactivate the Magic Wards in the Wall that have prevented the White Walkers from crossing it for thousands of yearsā¦
18. Wyman Manderly will deliver a show version of his book speech, just before either Jon or Sansa are proclaimed King or Queen in the Northā¦
19. The last words of the season will be spoken by Mel, and will either be āWinterā or āThe Winds of Winter.ā
To be fair, Bran, Jon, and Sam have these covered. Might as well give Tyrion something useful to do and let him hop on one of those lizards.
Corbyn Stark,
there are people who will vote for Trump in the US, how can you not believe people would be on team ramsay
This ! I agree with everything. This episode will decide how I feel about Jon’s arc for the season. Pleaasse D&D do justice unto him! They are talking of BoB being a tactical battle , I truly hope we see some tactical thinking by Jon and not just Ramsay, with Jon just reacting to whatever he does.
QueenofThrones,
Does Tyrion have any knowledge of WW lore? Dragons yes, but WWs, not so much. I think this is where Sam comes in.
QueenofThrones,
Personally I find it very hard to believe that they would make such an obvious error and then put it online for people to pick apart.
I think it’s more likely that they correctly addressed the letter to Edmure, since he is the official Lord of Riverrun, as is the custom in such societies and we viewers are just not up to speed on such technicalities.
QueenofThrones,
There is actually present in the books .
No one ever was called mother of dragons or been feeding them their own milk ..each dragons have some aspect of herself and her character ..and all three are named after the ones specifically for the ones she is related to not others..and their relationship with her has been portrayed throughout the books…even those dragons in catacombs look for and miss her..
And he has portrayed dany and her connections to threes as well..and I know I should not use this one but his initial plan was to have only one dragon and then it changed in the story because after he got into the prophecies and three heads of the dragon and that’s why there is more focus on drogon and other two are always on the periphery because they are just there to add that number of three with dany
When I said no one ever hatched the dragons before ..every single one of the dragons eggs we have seen have been hatched on their own and only one was presented to a targ so they develop their bond with that egg..
But dany was given three and she hatched them after there was no dragons for hundreds of years based on the magic she performed and sacrifices ..the eggs didn’t hatch on their own..that’s where the difference comes in..
Again that scene is totally unnecessary if the budget is a concern ..
I guess we can only wait for next books to release then …
You know what i think or What I hope is if tyrion is going to ride one or if he is not will be resolved in TWOW …because I don’t have hopes for TDoS..so if it is resolved in the next book then people don’t go the route the show didint do but the books will do that..I just find that as an excuse and convinent one at that.
Who will be three riders is as important as RlJ or who sits on the iron throne…so I expect the show doing that same as in the books.
This is not dirctet at you but i just can’t understand that people dont have problem when Jon is said to be everything and gets one dragon ( there are many who cant be satisfied him getting one but want the big one because gods he can’t be getting smaller one than dany) and one wolf or bran getting one and having a wolf and warg humans and time traveling and everything ..and even tyrion can ride one if he is not a targ ..
But when I say that maybe all three dragons belong to dany who brought them to the world and lost lives for them .. Then i am labeled as fanatic why it is that unrealistic .
And iam also out of this place till next week because I don’t want to get into the same arguments and since there is going to be big dany scene I am sure there will be many whining ..
So have a nice day see you guys after season ends.
Plausible
Hopefully they go into this sort of thing pre-battle, to give a sense of context to it all
Eg Hardhome had all the meetings and context etc, meaning that what happened with particular people had so much more of a deeper meaning etc
Ghosts Lunch,
Yes. I loved that entire discussion at Hardhome. It was short, yet effective.
I’m getting married tonight but is it wrong that I’m equally excited about watching this episode tomorrow? lol
How the hell are they gonna show this all in 55 mins?!?!
Konnor,
So glad I don’t live there lolol
No of course not; I’d probably be more excited about GoT š Seriously though, hope you have an incredible wedding (followed by an incredible episode of GoT)!
dragonbringer,
Dany with Drogon makes sense, eg she’s taken over the Khal and so having the big one makes sense
I’ve always felt that Viserion would go to Tyrion or Aegon, I suspect even now GRRM is in two minds. Tyrion being a Targ may be interesting but then it takes away from the interaction with Jaimie, Cersei and Tywin if he is not a full Lannister, eg kinslaying and all that
Rhaegal going to Jon makes sense, but as with all things Jon it is one half, eg the other half is Ghost and so he straddles the Ice and Fire sides as he does with everything
Euron I figured would hatch the Egg he apparently had, I’m curious about it being under the Sea and whether it hatches differently as a result but it could just be symbolic
I do wonder if Euron hijacks or takes over Viserion. Indeed the idea of him being killed but then resurrected Wight style as an Ice Dragon is fascinating, moreso after the Dragonglass angle has been introduced via the show, eg an Ice Dragon is Frozen Fire etc
Your idea about Dany having all three is quite interesting, though in a WoW Arianne chapter a little girl in Dorne who seems to be a Greenseer seems to be talking about a second Dance of the Dragons and wherever they danced the “people died” so they may end up fighting eachother
ROFL
If only this was just before the Red Wedding
After the incredibly dissappointing “No One” I really am not looking forward to this episode anymore. I’ll probably watch it together with the finale sometime this month with some friends.
Wompppppppppp
Varys v. Littlefinger
The show has set up a symbolic rivalry between the two most informed men in the story. Varys represents team fire, Littlefinger represents team ice. Is it possible, then, that the two puppet-masters must both live until the end to maintain some kind of narrative thematic balance in the story?
We are still missing items from the promotional material.
Such as, Little Finger in the woods in the snow – who or what does he see when he turns around? I can’t shake the feeling that this is a huge plot point. I’ve been saying, LF is not to be trusted as the hero who will ride in on his white horse and save the day. It’s obvious that he sent the letter to Jon/Sansa pretending to be Ramsey. “Come and see” was the language used in the letter and what did LF say to Robin when he wanted to show him the gift of the bird, “come and see?“.
Also, the photo of Bran on the horse in snow – we haven’t seen that either – maybe in episode 10?
Either way, I think we’re in stall for some amazing entertainment. It can’t just be all about the battle action, I believe this is one of the episodes submitted for consideration of an Emmy Award for writing. Horses don’t speak (except Mr. Ed of course) and it’s very difficult to have meaningful dialog when one is galloping on a horse into battle.
I’m just going to go out there on a limb – I personally am looking forward to meeting Azor Ahai/The Prince That Was Promised tomorrow at about 9:55 PM.
And those of you who enjoy over analyzing everything and telling us morons why we can’t be correct in our thinking – knock yourselves out (smile).
>
Ghosts Lunch,
John:
Iām getting married tonight but is it wrong that Iām equally excited about watching this episode tomorrow?lol
Signing that band of little-people to jump out of the wedding cake was probably a poor choice. Stay away from the wine tonight…
George,
My contra-predictions for ep.9,10 and season 7:
1) The Starks loose the Battle, Tormund and Wun Wun die; Sansa is pregnant therefore the show must go on; Ramsey survives, Jon as well
2) Yara and Dany begin a love affair, Daario is killed by Yara, Tyrion befriends Theon
3) The dragons are trained for the great fight, I agree
4) Missandei and Grey Worm will want to come with her to Westeros; Tyrion stays behind (for ca 3 episodes)
5) Daario is already dead, but Jorah will show up again
6) Cersei will use the wildfire, kill her own son (the predictions!!!)
7) Kevan Lannister will be murdered by now Quiburns little Birds
8) Varys will be back and yes, might be teaming up with Lady Oleanna
9) The High Sparrow will kill Loras, starting Margaerys revenge
10) Ghost will die protecting Jon (sniff)
12) Davos already knows whatt happened to Shireen, and will not dare zu ask too
many questions
13) Arya will IN ANY CASE be reunited with the Hound (thats prepared since two whole seasons…) maybe they both survive that; Heading for Winterfell, reunited with Nymerya
14) Jaime tries to get back to Cersei, but fails and tries to find Brienne
15) Sansa tries to kill anybody who comes near to her; might be interesting when she meets the Hound, might try to play with Littlefinger again
16) Bran meets Jon after the battle; they try to get a grip on Sansa, who is trying to kill all unloyal allies
17) Sam is forced into a battle where he involuntarily kills his father; his brother wants revenge
18) The white Walkers approach; Jon is heading south for some dragons, will be proclaimed “Lord of Winterfell” by a letter from Rob (remember when he told Catelyn to leave his tents and wanted his Lords to stay for a signiture?)
19) The last words will be “Burn them all”
Wait ..I forgot Bronn: dying making love to a sandsnake???
dragonbringer,
I very clearly stated that TYRION has been shown not reciting all her titles. I know that Dany herself always at least tries to state all of them (unless she’s interrupted as happened with the dothraki) or Missandei does it when she is present.
To quote Tyrion “I drink and I know things.” We didn’t know that Tyrion knew anything about Dragonlore until this season – so I would be surprised if he didn’t know more than most people about the White Walkers and the history of the Night’s Watch. He spent quite a few hours reading at The Wall when he was there IIRC.
You’re right of course that Sam will have a lot to share with Jon about the White Walkers and already has. Sam is to Jon as Tyrion is to Dany – the smart/knowledgable guy on the team.
Hilarious.
lol everyone is shipping Yara and Dany; not sure the show would waste time on the romantic subplot since we have a lot of irrelevant subplots
Flayed Potatoes,
I don’t believe it. Lady Sansa of the perfect stitch would write in perfectly horizontal lines. I call this a forgery.
George,
Hey I just thought of this… what if Jaime makes it back in time for Cersei’s trial, and seeing as how Cersei’s doomed to lose her trial anyway, he decides it’s time to do the honorable thing, and claim Tommen as his own son? Then, Jaime tries to get Tommen out of there and safely back to Casterley Rock but Tommen somehow dies in the process, and ultimately only Jaime makes it out of KL alive as Cersei detonates the wildfire. Jaime fails to save King’s Landing or his son in the end – broken, he returns to CR.
VegoDread,
I don’t think that Littlefinger wrote the Pink Letter but I do admit that there may be some indirect connection. I mean the idea to lure Jon out of the Castle Black had to be given to Ramsay by someone else – Ramsay was eager to go to the Castle Black directly. And besides that Littlefinger spoke of some “friend in the North” – we still have to discover who that was, etc.
I’m with you, here. I’ve noticed that some shots of Jon alone that at first seemed sad might actually be mounting fury. Especially after the new EW photo. I notice also that the shot of all the soldiers on horseback being shot by arrows look to be (or include) Boltons, which at first appeared to be Team Jon due the the editing…
Konnor,
Well, Trump has never flayed anyone alive. As far as we know anyway!
Some bad ass art. http://gillesketting.deviantart.com/art/Night-Watch-Bolton-Better-Run-471293881
QueenofThrones,
For me Jamie looks to be set to die in Ep 10 after mercy-killing Cercey who is already planning to die in the flames along with her enemies but I know nothing.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
awesome
QueenofThrones,
Tyrion does not even believe in WWs. He likens them to snarks and grumkins, I doubt he would have been very interested in reading about them, idk. I wonder how he will figure into the end game. Other than the possibility of him being one of the dragon riders.
VegoDread,
The letter was delivered by a Bolton soldier. It came from Ramsay.
Inga,
Once Ramsay has the Umbers on his side and Rickon in his dungeon he doesn’t need to go and attack the Night’s Watch, which would have still been a controversial move as Roose pointed out.
Instead he can just sit back and let Jon, the Wildlings and any Northern houses whose loyalty he can’t rely upon march to their own destruction.
I don’t think Jaime will kill Cersei unless it is actually during an attempt to save the city.
It would be pretty epic if Jaime finds himself and Cersei in literally the same position as with him and Aerys… but finds that he is unable to do what he did before. With Aerys, everything in Jaime was pushing for the same thing – kill the Mad King and Save the People and his Family. With Cersei his heart wants to save her too – and that will prevent him from doing what he needs to do. Maybe he does kill Cersei but he hesitates long enough so it’s too late to save the city.
But either way I don’t think Jaime will die. It’s much more interesting if Jaime survives Cersei and has to deal with the aftermath of what happened. It might be wishful thinking of course, but I’d really like to see Jaime and Tyrion meet again, plus a Jaime – Dany meeting would be amazing drama.
One Who Waits,
Me too. I love the shot where Jon leans forwards slightly and his gaze sort of hardens and sharpens.
And you made an interesting observation about horses (now I have a reason to re-watch the trailer like ten times again).
ghost of winterfell,
Hmm I think it’s possible for Tyrion not to believe in them but still to know the lore about them having read all of the information he could about pretty much everything. Then when Tyrion sees them with his own eyes, that knowledge could still be useful. Though it might be hard to figure out what’s just fairytales and what’s real, when he used to think it was all fairytales!
It’s been stated time and again that Ramsay wrote the letter, even by the directors. It always seems to me that fans just want the story to fit their ideal. It doesn’t happen.
Over complicating plots isn’t where the show goes.
Speculation
Littlefinger betrays Ramsay, like he betrayed Ned.
Wildings and Boltans beat each other up. LF takes Winterfell.
Tinfoil Speculation
The battle is over.
Sansa is near death. John takes her south.
Thoros of Myr saves Sansa.
Sansa Stoneheart
More Tinfoil Speculation
Yara and Drogon defeat the Masters.
Dany, Dothraki and Yara sail to Westeros.
Euron destoys their fleet.
Dany lands in Westeros alone. Drogon flies away.
D&D save some money.
Dany meets Sam.
QueenofThrones,
I don’t think that Jamie surviving Cersey’s death would be interesting: he would be totally broken and drinking to death. And I don’t see Cersey (at least the show!Cersey) fleeing from KL, if Tommen dies. So there is a good chance that all of them will go in Ep 10 leaving the board clear for Dany (and Jon).
Halfman,
That’s what I say: Littlefinger didn’t write that letter. But: 1) he has some mysterious friend in the North; 2) his army has to get through Moat Cailin somehow. And that implies that Littlefinger’s friend is in Ramsay’s camp and that there is some plot.
Name *,
I would never be able to hold out that long – I can barely hold out for the next 36 hours. I’ll take the risk. š
Eh, I don’t know. Only half of Jaime is tied to Cersei. The other half yearns to make a meaningful difference in the world, and to live with integrity and honor. As long as that half remains intact after what happens in episode 10, that is enough. So, sure he’d have a pretty big sad for awhile if Cersei dies since it means that everything he hoped about Cersei and his relationship was a lie. But on the other hand after he’s done grieving he’ll finally be free to be himself.
TFT,
Good for you buddy.
I am pretty excited for this episode.
I too was underwhelmed by No One, but that doesn’t mean I am forever butt hurt and pessimistic about the Episodes To Come.
Go Wun Wun!
Also, conversely, if you think this has a sad ending, you haven’t been paying attention. GRRM said it would be bittersweet. That means the good guys win, but many will die in the process. Not all, but probably most of the power players and fan favorites will meet the Stranger before its all said and done.
While the acting this season has been very, very good (as in all the past seasons), the writing and directing have been incredibly disappointing. While I’m hopeful for the Bastardbowl, and I’m looking forward to it, I can’t help but feel a little nervous about the quality of the dialogue and story development. If you look at all the storylines in the series that have been the worst, it has been the one’s without GRRM’s writing as a blueprint to go off of. That includes the entirety of this season, not just Dorne’s dreadful adaptation. I have my fingers crossed, but I’m not overly optimistic.
Completely forgot about the picture…Can’t wait for more visions!
Otherwise there is the explosion in the pyramid,dortraki charging and harpies fighting scenes.So maybe its going to be a more even battle for a bit?considering the explosion immediate surrender seems unlikely ?
Someone else mentioned in a different thread:
Tyrion speech about the great game and him pouring wine back in the flask .
Ramsays do you like games comment
BRAN saying they don’t have a clue what’s coming
Missing anything still?
Inga,
Can’t be that good of a friend if he failed to mentionhow horrible Ramsay is?
Or he could be not close enough to Ramsay to realise?But then there didn’t seem to much doubt about Ramsays reputation from Umber thinking Ramsay was horrible enough to kill his father.To be fair this is later in time so possibly the info spread, LF seemed to at least know sth more when he went towards the Wall to meet Sansa
THIS. Although maybe finally Mereen will be history and Dany will finally be heading west. Probably 15 max this week.
Geralt of Rivia,
This made me think about why they’d make the title seemingly so specific to the north when we’ll also be in at least one location. The only other episode we’ve had with the name “bastards” in the title is 1.4, “Cripples, Bastards, and Broken Things.” I’ll put the rest under spoiler coding, so I can reference the other location, since this article doesn’t explicitly mention it:
Somewhat interestingly, Theon and Tyrion have some interaction this episode, with Theon insulting/dismissing Tyrion at Winterfell, and Tyrion angering Theon about what he, the son of Balon Greyjoy, has been reduces to as captive of the Starks.
Maybe this all means totally nothing, and this season definitely hasn’t made a point to create episode titles that are all-inclusive, but still thought I’d bring it to the table and see if anyone had any thoughts.
First time poster, long time reader!
George,
Here are my specs:
1. The Starks are on their knees by the time Littlefinger joins. Rickon, Davos, Ramsay, Umber and Karstark, Wun Wun and potentially Ghost and Tormund (though I seriously hope not!) are die in the process.
2. The battle sequence in Meereen will be the biggest, most expensive in the show’s history- but it’ll be very short. Dany will unleash all three dragons, the Dothraki, Unsullied and Second Sons all on the Slavers- and Yara will take the ships from behind. This sequence was purposefully hidden away from trailers and teasers because they want to surprise us with just how big it’ll be. Or maybe I’m overhyping. lol
3. Yara’s fleet and taken Slavers ships will take Dany, Tyrion and half of the Unsullied/Dothraki to Westeros- and Dany promises to repay Yara by killing Euron and giving Yara the Iron Islands. Dany leaves Missandei, Gray Worm and the remaining Unsullied/Dothraki. Either way, the Slaver’s Bay arc is done.
4. Arya arrives at the Riverlands and hears Walder Frey is there. She will do anything to take him down, and is now properly trained… but! She is interrupted by the Brotherhood, and the last we see of her is her reunion with the Hound.
5. Bran reaches the Wall at the beginning of the episode and has a touching farewell with Benjen, who says the magic within the Wall prevents him from coming through. The Night King’s mark is GONE, he’ll need to grab him again when he’s beyond the Wall if he wants to pass. Either way, Bran meets Edd, who tells him the Starks have retaken Winterfell.
6. At Winterfell, Littlefinger confronts Sansa in the godswood- where she either forgoves him or executes him. Either way, Sansa’s in trouble for lying, and I think Jon is crowned King in the North in her stead (which she won’t like one bit).
7. At King’s Landing, Cersei burns down the Sept of Baelor with just about the entire King’s Landing cast in it. The little birds kill Qyburn (they still belong to Varys). Jaime is there for the trial- hearing Lancel’s testimony and then watching Cersei “burn them all” and he finally understands who she is. Tommen might also be killed by the little birds (just Qyburn wouldn’t be enough, now would it?).
8. Dorne, Varys and Olenna in the bag.
9. Sam arrives at Oldtown and is given a tour of the Citadel. He is told that Winter has finally come, as a Maester sends out white ravens across the realm. Then we get a montage of all of Westeros in a wintery theme, ending with Bran arriving in Winterfell.
10. After his reunion with Jonsa, Bran goes to the godswood and sees the rest of the tower of joy- qeue credits.
LAY-DEEES AND GEN-TEL-MEN…
The following pitched battle is scheduled for No Quarter Asked, None Given FOR ULTIMATE POSSESSION OF WINTERFELL, CONTROL OF THE NORTH AND THE FATE OF HOUSE STARK!!!
IN THIS CORNER…
Hailing from Castle Black, by way of Winterfell, hoisting the white banners with a silver wolf, weighing in at Back from The Dead…
It’s The Baron of Brood, The Sultan of Sadness, The Killa from The Chilla: JON SNOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!
AND IN THIS CORNER…
Hailing from Winterfell, by way of The Dreadfort, hoisting the blue banners bearing the image of a red flayed man hung upside down on a cruciform, weighing in at Totally F’ing Nuts…
It’s The Flaying Freak, The Duke of Dysfunction and SECOND Most Hated Villain on Television: RAM-SAAAAAAY BOL-TOOOOOOOONNNNN!
And now, for the millions watching at home on HBO in real time or later on In Demand, and the BILLIONS who will be watching pirated copies of this at some point down the road…LET’S GET READY TO RUM-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!
My dead pool prediction for E9, with great sadness.
Davos
Tormund
Wun Wun
Rickon
Ghost
With great happiness
Ramsay (by Jon)
Melisandre (by Davos)
I’d love to see Jorah return after getting his arm crispy fried cured, but I suppose it’s too soon for that. Le sigh.
Lord Farstark,
Bahahaha this is awesome.
Who’s the first most hated villain on tv?
DT,
Really interesting parallels! Especially
Plus, slavers are definitely (figurative) bastards… and so are the Ironborn to be fair. š So there’s that also!
Lord Farstark,
LOL!!
Congrats! And any rabid GoT fan will not hold it against you being excited about tomorrow.
John,
Mazel tov!
VegoDread,
I won’t try to outsmart you ?, it is just that “come and see” is not a very original phrase. I think I’ve probably used it like 5 times today, and I swear (by the old gods and the new) that I had nothing to do with that letter!! ?
I seriously can not wait anymore for this episode to air. I needs it. I wants it. Give it to me precious.
In the meantime, who will join me in forming a prayer circle around Ghost, Davos, Tormund, and Wun Wun?
Never have I been so excited for an episode and so scared at the same time.
All I want to know is if Jon wins will EP 10 have the Direwolf instead of the Flayed Man at Winterfell in the opening sequence?
I need that thing gone.
Lord Farstark,
You’ve got to give us the no1 villain!!
Mark these words:
The Battle of the Bastards will feature one or all of the following:
* A newly flaming sword will make its debut! (Azor Ahai!)
* The influence of Bran Stark will be seen
* A wild pack of wolves will aid the Stark Army (LoTR Warg -ish)
* A Dragon will aid the Stark Army
BunBunStark,
Reporting for prayer.
So I’m wondering about Brienne and Pod…
Will they fast travel and show up for this battle?
If not, they’ve obviously misplaced their horses again, so will they row down river and run into the BWB and the Hound, who have mentioned heading North?
OR will they sneak under the Twins bridge and keep floating until they get to the Neck, running into Howland Reed before they reach Moat Cailin? (someone has to)
OR will they bump into a rowing blacksmith who looks like Gendry and offers to change the lion on her sword so people stop giving her crap about it?
Ok, Davos is NOT dying: Team Stark still needs its own special second-hand car salesman.
Tormund is NOT dying. He’s the only recognizable Wildling leader, and we’ll need a Wildling leader for the final show down vs the Undead. This is when he might die though.
Melisandre is NOT dying, Rhllor is needed around there, plus she has a date with Arya she needs to keep.
Last but not least, Ghost is NOT dying. Right from the very first episode, he was singled out among his siblings, just as Jon was.
I am uncertain about Wun Wun. Everyone seems to think he’s a goner, but, guys, he’s a freaking giant. It will take a lot to put him down.
BunBunStark,
Definitely crossing everything for the safety of Davos, Ghost and Tormund!
I need Tormund to live. He and Brienne will ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after. The End.
Thank you for replying with this great message my good friend
I still question whether or not we see Jaime and Cersei together again. There’s not a lot of time left in the series, but, there’s still enough that I can’t imagine the climax of Cersei’s storyline will happen already in this season’s finale. I question it all because of that interview Jonathan Pryce did when he said
Whatever he was talking about obviously happens in the season finale. It’s extremely possible that it’s one of the cliffhanger scenes though. Jaime could be just arriving or nowhere near KL yet at the time.
I do think most believe he’s struggling internally with his feelings since the show has made that a fairly evident thing. He does love Cersei but so much has changed. He’s fighting to retain the relationship they once had but he’s standing on a fence. Whether or not he needs to see anything firsthand to get him to jump off the other side is in question. Either way I don’t think Jaime’s story ends with Cersei’s.
Moondoor,
Oh, I think that Littlefinger knew exactly what he was doing when he married Sansa to Ramsay. And I don’t believe what D&D say – I believe what they show. Let’s check. In S4 Sansa lied to defend Littlefinger but immediately afterwards she showed that she had power over him saying “I know what your want” in a rather threatening voice. So, she was turning into a bad investment and Littlefinger did exactly what he used to do with “bad investments”: remember the story he told to Roz and Roz herself. And that made sense: Sansa’s death would have served as a perfect casus belli, Robin would have sent the Knights of the Vale to avenge her etc.
One more hint that I might be right. Remember Osha’s death scene and how she said exactly the same words to Ramsay Sansa said to Littlefinger in S4: I know what you want. Well, Osha knew nothing and it’s rather possible that Sansa knows nothing too. The Blackfish said that she was “exactly like her mother” and Catelyn trusted Littlefinger thinking that he loved her and we all know how it ended.
Therefore, I think Sansa is in a big danger. I don’t want her to be killed but there is a big possibility that she will go like Osha overestimating the power of Littlefinher’s sexual lust (he has none if you remember his sexposiotion). Let’s hope that Sansa will understand that in time, despite it’s the Game of Thrones.
I’m only excited to see Meereen in this episode because of Yara & Theon and the possibility of 3 dragons taking flight. But, yeah, there’s zero tension in that battle since there’s no chance Team Dany loses and no real risk to any of her people. In BOB, on the other hand, the scales are tipped in Ramsay’s favor and the chances of characters I love dying are very high. While I don’t mind BOB sharing the episode with Meereen, I will be pissed if the final shot of the ep is of Dany atop a roaring Drogon.
Sansa is incredibly naive, and if I let my personal thoughts out, stupid. She hasn’t learned anything as far as I’m concerned. Even though she’s been witness to lies/deceit, treachery, brutality, greed, etc. since she left Winterfell she still deals with things as if everyone is honest, honorable and should do her bidding as a Stark. The “you don’t know Ramsay” line is going to irk me. I’m all for Jon replying with the “you know nothing” line. The only exception she’s made is calling out Littlefinger, but even then she did nothing and now is going to secretly call on him for help. If it turns out that she’s screwed them with her connections with him then she deserves to be ‘done.’
I apologize. I can’t stand Sansa in the books and I can’t in the show either. I thought it was turning during the escape and arrival at Castle Black, but nope, back to being what she likes to say, “an idiot.”
I have to admit I went with what was said by the actor, claiming he was truely unaware and apologetic even. If there is a twist it makes sense they wouldn’t reveal it.
However don’t you think he needs Sansa? He needs to control Robyn to control the Vale . He could try and plot Robyn against Sansa,claiming she killed his mother and get Sansa killed but then whats the point of convincing the kid to ride to the rescue of Sanse? Its not like he has a stark/heir to winterfell to put in her place once they take WF from the Boltons . So it’s not like he has anything besides Sansa to control the north and WF so why go there at all? To kill her and go back to Vale?
BunBunStark,
Or maybe it’s just an illusion that Dany has no real risk. I do admit that Drogon can burn all the attackers in 5 minutes but, if Dany overestimates her power, if she decides to take the ships instead of burning them counting on the arrival of the Dothraki, things may become rather unpredictable IMO. Wouldn’t it be fun if we had a parallel of Ramsay losing and Dany almost losing due to overestimating their potential?
I’m still thinking of Tyrion’s words from the trailer: “You are in the great game now and the great game is TERRIFYING”. It sounds like a comforting phrase after something terrifying happens. So, there is a chance that the battle of Meereen won’t be as predictable, as it looks like at the moment.
BunBunStark,
In an episode named “Battle of the Bastards” the last scene better be in the North. We’ve already had the cliche Dany + dragon ending this season.
I wonder if it isn’t possible that they’ll flip back and forth between the two battles. It’s true that they’re hyping the BotB more, but in the grand scheme it seems what happens in Meereen is of equal importance. We’ve been discussing as if it will be “chunk then chunk,” but maybe they blend it all together in some fashion. That hasn’t been their m.o. for big battles in the past but they haven’t had two battles of this level happen at the (perceived) same time before.
Moondoor,
I don’t think Littlefinger needs Sansa to control the North. As we have seen recently, the North is not that loyal to the Starks and ready for a new blood. On the other hand, if Littlefinger counts on the Stark loyalists (and it looks like he does), a just cause of avenging Sansa and the Starks (backed up with an immense military force) would bring them under his control almost as effectively as his marriage to Sansa could do. And he may count on ruling the North through his “friend” Manderley (?) after destroying the Boltons along with the Umbers and the Karstarks. Or maybe his friend is Lord Karstark – he might have a claim to the North, if the Starks are gone, as far as I understand. And he has some unconventional sexual habits, which could bring him to Littlefinger… So, there are different possibilities and different moves Littlefinger can take and most of them are under continuous alteration.
Of cause, D&D can simplify everything and make him do something stupid and such chance increases after last episode but a woman can hope… and for some logical explanation of the Arya’s story too.
Clob,
I think that would actually take away from the scene imo. Imagine how frustrating it would be to cut away from a scene while Jon or Tormund face a named character in mid-battle.
Clob,
That’s what I’m hoping for. Something like this.
North setup. ~10 minutes
Meereen setup. ~5 minutes
North battle begins. ~10 minutes
North battle progresses. ~10 minutes
Meereen battle sequence+ Greyjoy appearance. ~ 5 minutes
North battle seems doomed, Vale arrival. ~10 minutes
Battle at Meereen is won, Yara and Theon meet Dany. ~5 minutes
Battle of Winterfell won, Ramsay death. ~5 minutes
Roll credits
Re: “Thousands of men don’t have to die……….only one of us” – currently re-watching Baelor from Season One, and had forgotten that Jaime told Robb that they could end the war with a duel. Robb fighting for the Starks and Jaime for the Lannisters. Interesting callback.
Inga,
I guess it would depend on who his friend is,if he or she is power full enough the use of Sansa greatly decline especially since LF is one for taking risks.
The stabbin and miraculous recovery part of Aryas story?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
He doesn’t really have a choice, though. Ramsay was coming for them, whether they liked it or not. Ramsay has already amassed his army. What was Jon to do? Just hope that Ramsay gives him more time? Jon and Sansa sent letters out to the Northern Houses, and only got a few replies. Jon says, “if they have not answered now, they are not coming,” this is true. He cannot rely on the North for more troops, and cannot hang around waiting for the bad weather to screw them over. He is also unaware of the Vale army because Sansa withheld that information. Even if she tells him before the Battle, all he can do is rely on the Vale troops to show up at this point, rather than have time to plan strategy with them.
The odds seem to be outside of Jon’s control. He can only do so much with what he has got (an army mostly made up of Wildlings, who have no experience in organized warfare). And is unlikely to find anymore troops in time, before a) The weather makes defeat even more likely or b) Ramsay runs out of patience and just hunts them down. Also, the geographic position of the battle (Bolton forces in front of Winterfell) makes geographic strategy difficult. They can only march forward.
I think we will see some strategy in the battle (row of archers, Stark cavalry) but the odds are not in Jon’s favor.
jentario,
I think they will start with Meereen for roughly 20 minutes then it’s all North for the remainder of the episode. Doubt they will have scenes from any other locations but you never know. They may throw in a quick follow-up with Bran who’s not been seen for a couple episodes now.
Dee Stark,
According to a recent survey I saw (can’t remember where) Jack Randall of Outlander is the reigning ‘Most Hated Villain on Television’.
From what I’ve been told about the character, I understand how he edges out Ramsay, if only by a hair.
I’ve fallen behind in season two, but from what I’ve watched I can’t disagree. I despise Tobias’ characters on Outlander so much that it’s probably the main reason I’ve put it aside and even a cause for me to hate Edmure on GoT.
I don’t disagree. However, it would assist in making the battles feel like time has passed, that it’s more of a struggle. Hardhome was excellent, but it also felt like a pretty brief battle when done in a single scene. It would take a lot of work to jump back and forth at appropriate times but if done well I think it could really emphasize the importance of both. I don’t really think they’ll do it though. If they do it at all it might be most likely that it would be just once for the final two scenes of the episode.
Sort of OT, but I’ve seen this Jon quote a lot lately (not just from you). But, for the life of me, I don’t remember him saying this line. When did he say this??
The main reason I’m so positive that Jon and company prevail, is that the preview makes it look like Jon and company are going to get pulverized.
That said, the role Littlefinger plays, and how that is likely to affect the aftermath, is probably going to be the key thing to watch for.
Here’s a question to fellow Watchers:
Do any of you think Dany will kill Tyrion and Varys soon?
Vary’s departure from Meereen minutes before the Masters invade certainly was well timed. Dany certainly remembers that Varys was the one behind her earlier assassination attempts.
Now that she’s embraced blood and fire, will she hold Tyrion accountable for bringing her enemy to the door (not to mention for his deal making with the Masters).
Looking forward to your comments, if any.
Thanks!
Ghosts Lunch,
I believe GWWM may have stated that there will be a second Dance of Dragons
No. For one thing, Tyrion is one of the primary protagonists. His evolution drive the story, more so than any characters other than Jon and Daeny. He will be there until the end.
For another, Varys is often on some secret mission. My bet is that it is to bring the Dornish to Daeny.
At any rate, Tyrion did not bring the enemy to the gate. He tried to prevent this by coming to a compromise: without this attempt, the enemy probably would have gotten to the gate even sooner than they did. They certainly are not attacking because of Tyrion or anything that Tyrion did.
GRRM had to have made up his mind about that years ago. He should have written the last two books with this in mind!
DireWolfHeart,
Great!
John,
Mazel Tov! No, I don’t think having the tv running during the reception would be a good idea (besides some idiot would just switch it to some basketball game š Enjoy every moment!
Because that was for Stannis’ battle, not Jon’s? However Jon will defeat Ramsay in Winter will be very different from how Stannis loses to Ramsay in Winter.
heh, we will see tactics, not strategy! We already have seen the strategy – appeal to long held loyalty to the Starks – and that failed.
But semantics aside, I do agree with you that Jon has been left in a conundrum where he is tactically very limited. A lot of that is because of his decision to let the Wildlings into Westeros, and a lot more of it has to do with what Robb and Catelyn did. Moreover, the Wildlings do not make for a good army: they do not have contemporary weapons or armor, they lack cavalry, and they are trained to fight hit-and-run skirmishes, not large battles. The few Northerners to join have vastly depleted military capacity. And between the Boltons’ savvy in helping other Northerners and the perceived threat of the Wildlings, they have an organized army opposing them.
Good thing Sansa sent for the Vale!
Amen to that, with an extra amen for Davos…
I share your views about Sansa, especially the last part. Despite all that she has experienced and seen, her world still revolves around the old feudal system where her name as a Stark is everything and everyone will give all for her, without understanding the other side of the coin – her own obligations. I see a strange parallel with Cersei. Cersei herself gave power to the High Sparrow, who then imprisoned her and made her do her walk of atonement in Season 5. Sansa was not forcibly made to marry Ramsay Bolton, son of Roose, who killed her mother and brother. She married him on Littlefinger’s advice and of her own volition, thinking that Ramsay would treat her well because she was Sansa Stark. This, after she protected Littlefinger to the Vale lords and ladies following Lysa’s murder. I think her letter (to LF, I assume) is her finally becoming practical, though I will wait and see if she told Jon about the vale army before the battle begins.
I think they will start with Ramsay and Rickon (do you like games, little man?), then do a bit pre-battle built-up with Jon, Sansa, Davos etc., then head to Meereen for 15 to 20 minutes just to get back to the battle for the rest of the episode.
“The kinslayer is accursed by Gods and men” – at least the Gods would leave him be š
Somehow got a very bad feeling for Tyrion though. Wouldn’t be surprised if he won’t make it to season 7.
And why did they intentionally get the Tully words in the wrong order?
The Red Woman ended with the Red Woman. Oathbreaker ended with oathbreaking. The Door ended with the door. Blood of My Blood ended with new bloodriders, which seemed to shock everyone but me. No One ended with No One. The Battle of the Bastards will end in the North.
Clob,
They can’t really make the BoB very long because Jon doesn’t have the numbers to last that long.
What would Grey Worm Noballs say to Theon the Weeless when they meet? A possible inspiration for the Ironborn to get his self-esteem boosted? Then a twist for Theon becoming a dragon rider…
Ginevra,
Good point. I think it will be pre battle scenes followed by Meereen followed by battle in the North, like others have suggested.
czechkatka,
heh.
Is he? Jon is marching toward Ramsay, not the other way around, from what we’ve seen.
Ginevra,
heh, don’t go ruining people’s hyperbole with facts! š
And that is the key thing: Sansa has learned that allegiance is about practicality, not her particular ideals. The allegiance “owed” to her family by prior oaths has been largely forfeit due to decisions by other members of her family, as well as the allegiances owed by her families (former) vassals to their vassals and commoners. This could be good in the long run: she has learned something that, say, Cersei could never learn, and that is that allegiance has to be earned and re-earned over and over and over.
But writing to Littlefinger shows that yet another brick in her wall has been taken down. She now understands that you cannot let personal feelings get in the way of possible allies and that sometimes you have to side with people you dislike in order to defeat people that you hate. That shows much more growth in her character than would, say, Sansa, Goddess of War, winning over all the Northern Houses with stirring speeches and a radiant glow. (Besides, wouldn’t the latter be one of the classic fantasy cliches?)
I should put this on a site and just post the URL every time! But:
Again, Tyrion is one of the primary protagonists of the over-arching tale. His evolution from Thrones to Spring will be a bigger part of that story than anyone other than Daeny’s & Jon’s.
(I just need to make one of these for Jon, Daeny, Arya, Bran and [it seems] Sansa as well, and that should do the trick!)
She already knew that. That was why she sided with Littlefinger to begin with. So she’s circled back to where she began in Season 5, having failed to accomplish anything on her own.
testing time st
Heehee! Every time Dany or one of her supporters starts listing her titles, I am reminded of the opening line of Robert Graves’s novel I, Claudius (which I have long believed is one of GRRM’s influences): “I, Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus This-that-and-the-other…”
Also I think of the character Pooh-Bah in Gilbert & Sullivan’s The Mikado, who is introduced as “First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral … Archbishop … Lord Mayor” and “Lord High Everything Else.”
I think George was having a bit of fun with us in saddling her with such an awkwardly long string of appellatives.