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In tonight’s new episode of Game of Thrones, the siege of Riverrun came to an end, and no one was safe.
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section will contain spoilers from the novels! Because no, we are not all Unsullied now. If you haven’t read the books yet, please check out our non-book-reader recap. Thanks!
In King’s Landing...
The Faith Militant are running rampant in the Red Keep, thanks to Tommen’s alliance with the church. Lancel and his unpleasant boyband try to force Cersei to meet with the High Sparrow, and Cersei finally gets the opportunity to show off her new toy. Threatened with the possibility of violence, Cersei accepts it furiously and sics FrankenMountain on the boyband. One ripped-off head later, Cersei and Qyburn are smiling like proud parents, and Lancel knows they are deeply outmatched.
In the Throne Room, Cersei finds there’s an announcement due shortly. Her uncle Kevan shows up just long enough to be a misogynistic ass, and I’m wondering how long it will be before Uncle Kev gets the FrankenMountain neck adjustment.
Finally, Tommen makes his pronouncement, regarding the trials of Cersei and Loras. He sets the long-awaited date- and throws a nasty curveball in Cersei’s plan by forbidding all trials-by-combat. Instead, seven septons will determine their fate at trial. The combat ace in the hole she was counting on is useless. There is no way Cersei is going to fool seven septons who all bow to the High Sparrow.
Qyburn steps up and confirms to Cersei vaguely that “that rumor” is true, after all.
“That rumor” Qyburn references, the one that his little birds have confirmed- my best guess is it’s wildfire, based on Bran’s visions. With her plan of trial-by-combat out, and her own son doing nothing to help her, Cersei might be going kamikaze.
Somewhere in the Riverlands…
Sandor Clegane is on a roaring rampage of revenge, and that’s bad news for a few men this week. The outlaws who sacked the hippie commune last week- minus Lem Lemoncloak, who is occupied elsewhere at the moment- are relaxing and talking trash when the Hound and his axe finds them. They don’t die well, but Sandor is in fine old form.
Later, Sandor does find Lem- and the rest of the Brotherhood without Banners, who have Lem and two other men strung up for their attack on the innocent villagers. BWB leader Beric Dondarrion and his mad red priest Thoros of Myr are punishing them for violating the BWB’s ways. Despite the fact that Clegane fought with Dondarrion last time they met, this time they get on swimmingly. Sandor really has changed. Mostly they haggle over the hanging men a bit and Sandor steals Lem’s boots after he finally executes the outlaws who killed Brother Ray.
Over dinner, the Brotherhood makes the Hound an offer- to join them. “The cold winds are rising,” Beric warns, and they need good men. The idea that Sandor can still do good in the world is revisited, and he’s once again left pondering his uncertain future.
In Meereen…
R’hllor’s charismatic preachers are doing their work as promised, selling Daenerys (and her advisors) to the crowds. Varys is now apparently headed out of town on a mission, looking to acquire more friends in Westeros to further their cause.
Back at the pyramid, Tyrion forces another awkward drinking game on Missandei and Grey Worm with marginally better luck this time. Honestly, Tyrion is that sad guy who wants to drink all the time but doesn’t want to drink alone because he knows what it means, so he peer-pressures people. The trio tells some painfully bad jokes, and once again, we’re cheated out of the punchline of the honeycomb and the jackass story.
The monotony of uncomfortable drinking games is broken up by the slavers from the other cities returning to claim “their property.” The masters launch an attack on the city, fire-bombing Meereen from their ships as Tyrion, Missandei and Grey Worm argue over strategy.
Deciding to hunker down in the pyramid, they get ready to defend themselves at the sound of a threat close by. The door opens, an Unsullied looks out….and bends the knee to Daenerys, who steps into the pyramid without warning, after her long absence.
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At Riverrun.…
The siege of the castle continues, with the Blackfish holding firm and properly wasting Jaime Lannister’s time. Brienne and Pod arrives at the siege camp and are brought in to meet with the commander.
Bronn gleefully teases Pod (his acquaintance from the days when the young man squired for Tyrion) and makes some keen observations about the possible attraction between Jaime and Brienne. Let the record show, it is also now canon that if given the opportunity, Bronn would definitely fuck Brienne.
In the tent, reunited for the first time in ages, you can see how much it means to Brienne when Jaime says he’s proud of her for all she’s done since she left King’s Landing. Now, her cause is in direct opposition to his once again. Their situation is complicated, with their conflicting loyalties, but then, it always has been. Jaime is still struggling with the notion of doing the right thing, and how it clashes with his desire to return to Cersei and the life he knows. Even knowing Brienne’s suggestion for the Blackfish to abandon the castle will fail, he lets her try. Before they part ways, she offers him back the sword Oathkeeper, having fulfilled her vow to find Sansa.
“It’s yours. It’ll always be yours,” Jaime says. And I’m fairly sure every shipper just about died right then.
If they meet again, they may have to fight, but clearly neither of them want it.
Unsurprisingly the Blackfish has no interest in her offer, and doesn’t trust the Kingslayer’s word. He won’t abandon the defense of his own home for Sansa, the niece he barely knows.
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Later, Jaime meets with Edmure Tully and softens him up by discussing his baby, the child conceived at the bedding at the Red Wedding. Edmure pokes at Jaime, wondering how someone like him can sleep at night. Edmure pricks at his conscience in the way Brienne did, but Jaime remains focused on his goal.
He brings up Catelyn, and her love of her children, before working his way around to his real point: catapulting Edmure’s baby into the walls of Riverrun if he doesn’t cooperate.
Later, we see Edmure, now freed and more presentable, approaching the drawbridge of the castle. The Blackfish argues against letting him in, but the men feel they have no choice but to obey their true lord and lower the drawbridge, letting him in.
Once inside, Edmure gives the order for every man to lay down his weapon, surrendering Riverrun to the Freys and Lannisters. Edmure orders the Blackfish to be put in irons and given over to the Freys (payback for the Blackfish being so chill about letting him hang, I suppose).
But the Blackfish isn’t one to go down easy. He helps Brienne and Pod slip away, via a rowboat on the river beneath Riverrun. Freys and Lannisters fill up the castle, the men come to take the Blackfish, and apparently he dies off-screen, as a soldier reports to Jaime that the Blackfish died fighting. (The HBO Viewer’s Guide backs that up, and seems to kill any hope that the Blackfish escaped.)
Standing on the walls, Jaime sees the rowboat slipping away. His and Brienne’s eyes meet, and they wave farewell.
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In Braavos….
After a performance, Lady Crane discovers Arya in her dressing room area, bleeding and in desperate need of help.
Yes, that was Arya getting righteously shanked last week. That was Arya wandering around in broad daylight undisguised when Faceless Men were hunting for her. The Waif really is that ineffective a Faceless person. All that theorizing from fans after last week’s episode, and uh yeah…
Anyway, Lady Crane stitches up Arya (after revealing she has a habit of stabbing her boyfriends), who isn’t sure where to go anymore. Arya needs to rest and heal though, so she reluctantly accepts milk of the poppy and sleeps.
Later, Lady Crane checks back in on Arya, who is still out cold. While getting more medicine from a shelf, a young man appears behind her.
Arya wakes up to find Lady Crane dead, with the Waif standing over her. The Waif is determined to finish the job when it comes to Arya too.
She jumps out the window, fresh stab wounds and all. The Waif is close on her tail, chasing her through Braavos: down stairs, over walls, through marketplaces, until Arya leaps again and rolls down a long flight of stairs, reopening her wounds. She manages to get away, staggering back to her hidey hole, where the Waif tracks her down.
Challenged by the Faceless woman, Arya rises to her feet, Needle in hand- and slashes at the candle, bringing the room and their fight into total darkness. Handy for a girl who has trained recently as a blind person. Unfortunately we don’t see any of this fight.
A quick cut to the House of Black and White, and suddenly there’s a blood trail catching Jaqen’s interest. He follows it back to the Hall of Faces, where he discovers a very new and raw face has been added to the collection- the Waif’s.
“Finally a girl is No One,” he says to Arya, who raises Needle.
“A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I’m going home.”
Jaqen accepts her choice with a touch of a smile as she leaves.
Assorted Thoughts on the Episode:
This was not one of the better episode of the series. It was frankly a bit of a mess. The good news is that even a weaker episode of Game of Thrones still has great moments.
Highlights:
Jaime & Brienne’s scenes, and Bronn’s moment with Pod.
Jaime & Edmure’s conversation. Thank god, they finally let Edmure speak!
The action portion of Arya and the Waif’s scene was great, beautifully done and great use of a location.
Essie Davis is wonderful and I’m so glad we had her even for this short amount of time.
It may disappoint some but I like that Cersei can’t use her trial-by-combat trick. Anyone who knows her would have seen that coming a mile away and plotted around it, as the High Sparrow clearly did.
Waiting to see…
The return of Thoros and Beric is interesting. Thoros we knew about a while back from filming spoilers, but Beric is more of a surprise. With Beric still in play, what does that mean for the show’s version of the BWB plot? The loss of Beric is significant in the books, and bringing him back makes me think it’s only so he can pass his spark of life onto someone else. Otherwise, what’s the point?
Just…bad
The Meereen scenes were more or less a mess. The masters suddenly showing up…but then, oh no, it’s Dany at the door! The pacing was all wrong, and Tyrion’s scenes with Grey Worm and Missandei are a waste of time.
Show, Don’t Tell part 1: If you’re going to kill the Blackfish, it damn well better be on camera. If the Viewer’s Guide is right and he’s dead for real, what a total letdown. The build-up was good, and then it completely fizzled with that off-screen business.
Show, Don’t Tell part 2: Arya and the Waif are finally going to have a final showdown, and we don’t see any of it? There was really no suspense in how it was done. All the momentum of the chase was gone. They didn’t need to show us cutting off her face- that part could have been a surprise.
Across the board, there was a lumpiness to the episode with jokes falling flat and the pacing of the scenes erratic. There were good scenes, for sure, but I think this will go down as one of the low points of the season.
No One!!
Hodor!
So Close!!
Agreed. The results of the wound to Arya’s abdomen spoke of “TV moment” and One Hour Drama. It was pure Hollywood. And if Game of Thrones was like that too often, we wouldn’t be watching it.
It wasn’t all bad, but now I am dreading the Battle of the Bastards. Will it be No One or Hardhome?
Will it be awesome, or will it be crap?
As for episode 10, well Varys left for Westeros. That means the Small Council is about to become very small, indeed.
I cannot believe how this show is having me root for Cersei.
Does Tommen survive Season 6? I begin to highly doubt it.
Yeah I agree. There were parts I liked and parts that were terrible. I’m still laughing at that random Dany arrival and the slaver ships showing up suddenly like in an Age of Empires game.
Arya’s chase turned into this:
Next episode is going to make up for this episode. No doubt, going by that preview, holy shiiiit!
Thank you for this recap, I completely agree. For all that build up to reintroduce the Blackfish and let’s not forget one of the only people loyal to Robb and Cat to escape the Red Wedding, it’s such a waste to let him die off-screen…
Unless…. unless….. Beric’s return, the need for a character loyal to the Starks to start hanging Freys…. What do you guys think? Will the BWB find a dead Blackfish in episode 10?
I still don’t see why seeing the Blackfish cut down by the Lannisters, or seeing Arya fight the Waif in the dark, is at all important. Having those happen off camera was tasteful and economical. We know what happens, and there’s not going to be any dialogue during those fights which illuminates the characters any further. Good decision by the writers, IMO.
Not the low point for me.
I’m glad next week will take place in mostly the same locale. I think the show will rebound nicely from this soft effort.
Probably my least favorite episode of the season………..so far.
Did anyone catch the Hound’s “I prefer chicken” line?
By that logic, they may as well not show any fight scene.
The scenes should have been shown because dramatically there’s a need for it, and the episode was weird without it. If the episode had been written better, I wouldn’t have missed those scenes. That’s how it works. You can write around scenes, but they didn’t pull it off.
I don’t know why, but my eyes got wet over the Riverrun sequence. It’s kind of weird but I was so sad for Blackfish eventually dying at his home surrendered to the murderes.
Was I the only one who could hardly hear Edmure? I couldn’t understand a word he said. The only thing I caught was something about if Jaime thinks he’s a good man, and how does he sleep at night.
Also, enough with the Tyrion trying to get everyone drunk. Oy. Don’t give us extra time in an episode if that extra time is going to be spent on nonsense. However, I did laugh when Daenerys came back. She had a look like, “WTF?!? I’m gone for 5 minutes and you burn down the city and get my advisors drunk.” Lol.
Assorted thought: They’re really driving home this “Sansa is Catelyn” thing. Also loved Jaime’s surprise at Sansa still being alive. What was it he said? “Girls like her don’t live long,” or something to that effect. And Brienne was like, “Bitch, please,” (paraphrasing ?). I felt like that was an in-show conversation between the Sansa haters and the Sansa lovers. ?
Anywho, episode felt underwhelming to me. But the preview for next week has me excited, so, whatever. *Shrugs*
I was okay with them cutting away from Arya’s fight with the Waif, since we wouldn’t be able to see a fight in the dark anyway. The Blackfish being killed offscreen (or at all) really bothered me though.
That preview though ?
The episode was okay, it feels like we have only been filling out the time until the Battle of the Bastards.
I am glad Arya will get back to Westeros. Jaime’s Riverrun arc in books never left such a big impression on me, I have always been surprised that it is so highly rated by some people. Perhaps it is just because there isn’t much action within AFFC. It played out very similarly to the books, but it was nice to see some Jaime and Brienne interaction once again.
For some reason I was quite happy to see the Brotherhood Without Banners again, with Berric Dondarrion still alive. It is interesting that Thoros referred to the White Walkers. It seems like the whole of the R’hllor religion is gearing up for the fight against the White Walkers, this is really their Armageddon.
It will be interesting to see them going North. I think Jaime might also go North in the future, after Cersei has destroyed Kings Landing.
Mereen was Mereen. For some reason Kings Landing has been bothering me this season, it really feels like they are dragging things out, and repeating a lot of things. A lot of the time in Kings Landing could have better spend in the North.
Faye Marsay was fantastic in those chase scenes. I’m thinking Beric is back to do whatever LSH does in the coming books.
LSH is out. Cleganebowl is out.
Rwillie21,
But why? He was just reintroduced an episode ago, and is not in any way a major character. Plus, he…gets cut down by Lannisters, while heroically defending himself and his castle. What’s there to see? He exists in the plot, at this point, for Jaime and Brienne.
And I actually liked how Arya’s story concluded, they’ve made a poit she didn’t realize the assasins were after her (but then, prepared for a blind fight anyway?). Both Jaqen and the Waif have told Arya she has „to go home“ if she doesn’t commit, so Arya considered that a valid option. It appeared that Arya was Waif’s personal „order“ and, logically, the Waif failed herself cause she’s a shitty faceless person.
Sandro is filling in a touch of LSH… Just a thought of character swapping/combinations.
in preview for ep 9, “thousands of men dont need to die”, is that jon voice or stannis?!
i think brotherhood should have a leader! beric isn t good enough!
maybe lady st or stannis!
All those burning crosses… Any guesses who will be the victims?
My guesses:
– Osha
– Rickon
– Glover
There was some foreshadowing indicating my last guess.
So did Drogon burn the ships, or did he drop Dany off in a war zone and leave lol?
ArgonathofBraavos,
In the grand scheme of things, I guess it’s not that big of a deal. I just hoped they would use the character more.
Sue the Fury,
I simply don’t think a Blackfish fight scene is at all integral to the story being told – in this case, the story of Jaime and Brienne.
As for Arya, I loved that all we got was a whisper. The light goes out with a swoosh, and we know exactly what happens. That was satisfying for me, and for some reason, reminded me of Lawrence blowing the candle out in Lawrence of Arabia, leading to that famous cut to the sun. Completely different story and context, but a nice little filmic moment.
As a wiser person than me recently said, this season has felt a lot more like season 1 and 3 than any others. Lots of great dialogue, character-building and setup, as we climb towards what’s going to undoubtedly be an epic final two seasons. It’s the calm before the storm, in a way. And I’m a sucker for that buildup. Usually, for me, it’s more interesting and enjoyable than the payoff.
While I understand why a number of people were underwhelmed with the episode, it is not objective fact that it was a poor episode.
Arya’s plot would have made more sense and been more satisfying if she was clearly luring The Waif the whole time. It seems the explanation for her behavior in the previous episode is that she was trying to act rich so the ship would set sail ASAP.
Yaaa and Theon will help save Meereen, it is known.
I can do without the Arya/Waif fight scene. It was going to happen in total darkness anyway. I’m not here to see 5 minutes worth of a pitch black screen with grunts and moans as the only source of entertainment. However, the Blackfish dying off-screen sucked.
Braavos….Braavos…what a disaster it has been.
1) So this episode does confirm it was Arya that got stabbed. Apparently all a ‘plan’ to bait the other girl. Plot armor at its worst.
2) After one sleep, nearly stabbed to death Arya miraculously recovers to the degree of being able to run and jump freely.
3)Week after week they shoved in our faces Arya’s incompetence at fighting against the other girl ( I’m sorry, I’m not gonna call her the Waif cause it does the character injustice ) and the final boss fight is…wait for it…off-screen! How convenient.
4) ‘Hey hey Jaquen mate, I’ve killed someone of your cult. So yeah, I’m gonna be heading back home now. Bye’
GRRM is probably crying somewhere.
I’m mostly disappointed with Jaime’s character. “The things I do for love” thing showed how he is back to being the dude he was in S1 E1. It’s too bad. I guess now I can root for him to die tragically or by the secret I believe Qyburn has found.
The little birds still sing to Varys which is great. Hopefully Varys finds friends and takes care of loose ends as well.
Arya is my favorite character(books or show)and there wasn’t a payoff really to her trip to Braavos. Characters died this season by stab wounds to the gut and without putting up a fight. Look at huge Areo. Roose too. It’s too bad they handled it so poorly. I am glad Arya is headed back home, but it took way too long and the payoff was far too small. We get so few victories in this series that when a character technically has a victory it should be really satisfying. This wasn’t.
I loved the Hound stuff and seeing Thoros and Berric. KL was great.
Sue the Fury,
And almost every mano a mano fight scene that is shown on GoT is shown for an important character/ story reason (Ned vs. Jaimie, Hound vs. Dondarrion, Hound vs Brienne, Jaime vs. Brienne). The exception would be Selmy – a major character death. Showing Blackfish’s last stand, and Arya’s fight in the dark, don’t quite meet that criteria, IMO. They don’t advance the story or characters any further.
This episode is in the lower half of Season 6 for me, but since I’ve been loving Season 6 immensely, that’s no issue (Right now, Season 6 is my second favorite season behind Season 4). Also, I’ve only seen it once (I usually watch it twice, and universally enjoy it more on the repeat viewing). Looking forward to that.
I’m glad that there will be no CleganeBowl, at least in the context of Trial by Combat. The rumor that Cersei had Qyburn investigate is pretty clearly leading to wildfire consuming the Sept of Baelor, if not all of King’s Landing. That will be a sight to see.
Also, the expression on Cersei’s face when Tommen basically condemned her was heartbreaking. Bow down to Lena Headey. Amazing work.
I think it’s abundantly clear at this point that the reason that Jaime and Cersei haven’t drifted apart yet is because the show is setting up a far more explosive end to their relationship, one that may eventually claim one or both of their lives. If Cersei unleashes wildfire on King’s Landing – the very event that Jaime killed the Mad King to prevent – that will devastate him. The fallout will be fascinating to watch.
Speaking of Jaime, I loved everything at Riverrun, especially the reunion of Jaime and Brienne (Yes, it went down differently than it does in the books. No, I do not fucking care about that at all). This was easily Jaime’s best episode of the season, and a wonderful showcase for Nikolaj Coster-Waldau. Gwendoline Christie as well. The dialogue in that scene was great, but they conveyed so much else that wanted to say without words. I loved their little goodbye moment as well. I hope they meet again, under happier circumstances (And they might, now that we know that a certain lady will never be appearing. More on that later).
I enjoyed Jaime’s intimidation of Edmure. The impression I got from this clip is that Jaime played up his rhetoric to make a believable threat so that Edmure would surrender the castle without bloodshed. It worked.
I do agree that I would have liked to actually see the Blackfish die onscreen, both because he was a cool character who would put up one hell of a fight, but also to silence all of the conspiracy theories that are sure to arise from his “ambiguous”. After Stannis’s death last year, I was hoping that the show wouldn’t leave that particular door open again. I thought they shut it pretty definitively in this case, but I’m sure that some will speculate that he’ll make his way North or something.
However, I do not mind that we didn’t get to see Arya kill the Waif, especially since the fight was going to be staged in the dark, and that’s a tricky thing to pull off. It’s possible, of course, but the message was sent.
Sticking with that storyline, I’m thrilled that there was no elaborate twist with Arya. I laid down a pretty staunch anti-tinfoil stance in Friday’s preview thread (which several commenters here admittedly helped soften slightly). The final two scenes – her killing the Waif in the darkness, and delivering her face to the Hall before parting ways with Jaqen – were awesome. Honestly, if we hadn’t the scene last week where she got stabbed, and a version of tonight’s events had played out without that factor, I think almost everyone would have been happy. And no, her time in Braavos was not a waste. I enjoyed her storyline for the past two seasons thoroughly, and I believe it was worthwhile.
I was ecstatic to see Beric, and only because it means that the Lady Stoneheart theories can FINALLY die (some will never give up that ghost, but I think we can say pretty definitively now that it’s never happening). Let Catelyn can rest, as she always should have.
Richard Dormer was a welcome sight. We knew Thoros was coming back, and I’d heard rumors about Beric, but I’d also heard that he might have been recast. I was glad to see that wasn’t the case. To hear him talk about the White Walkers was thrilling, as was his pitch to Sandor. He didn’t outright accept, but I’ve got to imagine that he’s heading North, as many characters are.
Meereen was probably the least engaging storyline this week, but we’re clearly in the home stretch for Slaver’s Bay. We’re going to see the Battle of Fire! I expect it will be brief, and the dragons will make short work of the Masters’ fleet, but the shots of those ships launching fire at the Great Pyramid were damn cool.
Varys is almost certainly going to Dorne. I’m actually quite interested to see how it will all tie together. I could see Varys getting along very well with an even-keeled man like Doran, but Ellaria will be a different challenge.
I forgot in which episode Arya got her 10% health regen amulet
I guess Blackfish dying off screen is like Syrio dying off screen for me. The main thing is they know they’re going to die and face it anyway. Thought it was a decent farewell for a fairly minor character. And I thought ending with the candle being cut was great, personally.
Just a couple of pluses and minuses this week.
First plus … Beric Dondarrion!!!! Add to that, Thoros of Myr and you’ve got all kinds of good shit coming.
First minus … Adios, Brynden “Blackfish” Tully. I love Clive Russell so much and still can’t get over that thousand-yard-stare of his. I know a lot of people will believe he didn’t die because there’s no body but I believe he did and that it is a fitting end to a man who wanted only to die “at home”
Second plus … Arya kicking The Waif’s ass. It’s about time and, while Essie Davis was wonderful, I was happy to finally see her go. “A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I’m going home.” Such a wonderful line for Maisie.
Second minus … Jaqen’s response. This was seriously underplayed in my mind. Just a bit too ambivalent to the loss of the Waif and of Arya. Maybe being No One means not having any feelings but that would be counterintuitive to his methods all season.
Some thoughts:
I agree with a lot of people here that the Tyrion/Missandei/Grey Worm drinking scene seemed contrived and could have been done without.
Also, the slavers just showing up in Meereen like that seems highly unlikely unless someone has tipped them off that Dany is nowhere to be found. It’s unlikely that would happen if Rhaegon and Viserion had left the “cave” to get food. Knowledge of them being free would have given anyone pause.
On to next week … sigh … Ep 9 which means only 2 are left. The seasons are far too short for me.
“The Battle of the Bastards” is going to be between Jon and Ramsey, as we’ve been postulating for weeks. Ramsey, in the preview, looks pretty certain that he’ll win which makes me think something is going to happen to take him out of that frame of mind. I don’t know what it will be, unless the Knights of the Vale show up at the last minute to turn the tide against the Bolton army.
Oh, well … maybe more thoughts after watching this episode again a couple of times. Definitely not one of the best this season but that’s okay because we got to say Hi to some missed characters and Bye to one in particular.
And, BTW, I’m really sad to see Jaime’s arc fading. I had such hopes for him after the time he spent with Brienne but he’s right back to being … uh … Jaime.
I surely hope so. The week is going to go by very slowly but I’m expecting to get rewarded for my patience come Sunday night. 🙂
While not a bad episode, this was probably the single most disappointing episode for me. The way they resolved Riverrun and turned the Blackfish in to an afterthought was grossly mismanaged in my opinion. Not only do they senselessly kill him off, they give him an offscreen death! Plus, with the fact that the Tully army had already surrendered, it wasn’t like BF went back in to battle. I thought it was uncharacteristic of him to die for pride instead of going with Brienne.
Also, say goodbye to book Jaime.
Yeah, I’m no fan of scenes like that – where someone will ceremoniously arrive and then the others would stare at the person and the person would stare back at them and then cut to the next scene. Wish they showed more Dany with some dialogue.
RosanaZugey,
I feel that the odds of “Lady Sansaheart” have increased significantly as the result of this episode, although many other options are certainly available! But surely Beric Dondarrion wasn’t brought back at this stage just because he’s a pretty face.
“Lady Aryaheart” would be a scary thought…
ManderlyPieCompany,
I understand this. But for some reason, I haven’t heard commentators talk about the fact that Jamie’s reversion to “Cersei-loving, Lannister to the bone” Jamie has to do with his daughter being murdered, his father being murdered, and his son being captured by the High Sparrow. He feels like his nuclear family is truly under siege, and it’s so it’s a perfectly understandable part of his character arc at the moment. Just because we want him to tell Cersei to go to hell (I want that too) it doesn’t follow that it would be true to his character at this stage.
JoopStroop,
I would so be down for a resurrected BF to replace LSH. If only..
It was good to be reminded about Jaime actually being the one who ‘sent his regards’ at the Red Wedding and to have that contrasted with the exchange with Brienne. He must be awfully torn.
Sam,
No need for dialogue. Her face said everything you need to know. “What the hell has happened here?” It was like a mother returning home and finding her children throwing a massive, destructive party. It was great (and comic). Not sure they wanted it to be comic, but I saw it that way, and I appreciate comedy amidst war.
Kyle,
How does that work though? What is Sandor’s relevance to the Freys and Lannisters? I got the impression BwB was heading north (i kinda like that).
ArgonathofBraavos,
I’m petty much OK with not showing the Arya /Waif fight. My issue was that there was just no suspense in that whole sequence because of all the plot holes before it and a fight scene wouldn’t have solved that for me. With the Blackfish, they built him up over the last two eps as such a strong character, I would’ve liked just a beat where he faced down his killers, maybe along the lines of Grenn’s death in S4E9. You don’t have to show the fight but something better than a “He died” throwaway line. Ultimately, if they had time to waste on another Tyrion’s drinking game, they had time to resolve these story arcs better.
I’m not sure how much blame to ascribe to the director when an episode falls flat, but I’m guessing he’s right up there with the writers. Mark Mylod’s episodes from season 5 were some of my least favorite, and although he did do a decent job with the Broken Man, I felt like this episode was almost complete filler. Considering we are this late in the season, the momentum should be at a fever pitch by this point, instead its like the foot was taken completely off the pedal. Like Sue says, some scenes were great, others ok, and some just plain fuckin pointless. Peter Dinklage has been utterly wasted this year. Aside from releasing the dragons, he’s been in almost exclusively forgettable scenes with forgettable dialogue. What is his arc supposed to be this year? I like the Hound, but what are they building him up for? How is the BWB fighting the Walkers in the Riverlands? Are they still fighting the War of the Five Kings? Was that quick shot from the Hound’s dick’s perspective supposed to signify something? I dont know, Im done ranting, here’s to hoping Sapochnik can save the season with these last 2 episodes.
Oh yeah. KFC FTW.
Well I liked it, and frankly didn’t miss the North. Lots of that next week. Loved Arya and Jaqen and his knowing smile at the end, Sandor and Beric, Jaime and Brienne. Too little of Blackfish. Edmure got some significant screen time which was nice.
I’m imagining a Sandor/Beric road trip (“Hey, remember that time you killed me? Seriously though, your FACE when my sword was on fire…”)
The only way to see the Arya/Waif showdown would have been with night vision goggles. I like the candle cut to darkness.
Vincent Stark,
Roose and Areo weren’t grinding like Arya.
Oh goodness, that line. I hated Jaime then and I still do. To me, he has not redeemed himself in any way. He’s got to pay for that crime!
Jack Bauer 24,
Worst.Uber.Ever.
In Mereen, it does seem weird that they didn’t know the ship’s were coming with Varys’s network of spied. Felt abrupt for sure.
But I liked Tyrion’s scene with Grey Work and Missandei! He’s a social animal, so his efforts to make conversation felt very in-character. And their laughing at each other’s lame jokes was sweet, I thought. Maybe it was a bit long but I appreciate The Jon trying to relate to them, and their learning how to live their new lives.
BTW, where are those dragons? Also, I wonder if he’s totally on board with the plan for Dany to conquer the Seven Kingdoms. That would mean dethroning Tommen and could potentially put him in danger. No matter how much he hates Cersei, he loves Tommen (and Myrcella). How can he be okay with this?
Liked the episode not the best but not as bad as people make it out to be.Loved the jaime and brienne scenes god I hope they meet again.Arya’s story made sense to me but considering all the theories I read during the week I knew people would be angry lol.Also I’m so glad lsh is not in the show I could forgive them anything.The thing I love the most about knowing spoilers is that even if I am upset by something by the time the episode airs I’ve gotten over it and don’t have expectations that can’t be met lol. That preview though how am I supposed to wait a week I’m already dying.Wish meereen wasn’t in it but whatever I guess it will be kind of cool to parallel the battles
I noticed someone in the KL throne room scene who was wearing QoT’s attire, was that Olenna, or somebody who stole her clothes? The actor was too far in the background for me to tell.
Highlights of the episode for me were Bronn & Pod and Essie Davis.
The Arya stuff… Arya really was just walking around obliviously last episode. The Waif stalking after Arya like every serial killer of every bad movie. I could forgive it all if the payoff had been worth it but I couldn’t enjoy her “I’m Arya Stark” line because of Jaqen’s line right before it.
So much of Arya’s training isn’t about fighting because the Faceless Men’s primary weapons aren’t fighting but information and deception. And yet we get to the end and Jaqen has no idea wtf is going on with anything. He doesn’t see or doesn’t care that the Waif had a personal vendetta with Arya, doesn’t follow his orders, and absolutely sucks at her job. He’s got no idea what’s going on with Arya. I realize his line is just to set up her line, but it completely deflated the whole idea of the FM for me. He went from being the ultimate badass to completely clueless and inept.
So much for “Cleganebowl.” I really dont see how that would happen if there is no more trial by combat. I didnt really buy that theory anyway though.
Chelsea75,
Yeah, I’m actually thinking this is quite plausible. BWB seems to have remained unchanged, they need something to shake things up. Also, what would the Lannisters/Freys have done to the Blackfish’s body? Probably threw it in the river or something. It’s the timing of Beric’s return with recent events that makes me think it might just happen.
Darjan,
Tyrion’s arc this year is clear. He thinks he’s smarter than he is, and he thinks the politics of Slaver’s Bay can be handled in the same way as politics in Westeros. He almost has an early colonialist’s hubris about how to manage “these people.” That’s the point of his interactions with Missandei and Grey Worm. They try to tell him that his approach is ill fit for Slaver’s Bay, but he doesn’t really listen. This episode gave him his comeuppance. When those ships arrived, he realized he’d been a fool not to listen.
And I think this is partly why some fans are upset. Many empathize with the cynical, smarter-than-everyone, snider-than-everyone, geek underdog that is Tyrion. And when he fails, a lot of people simply don’t like it. Same reason why they really don’t like what happened to him in the later books. He just wasn’t landing the put downs and strategies like he used to. And that annoyed a lot of his hardcore fans.
But if you watch the season with expectations and biases set aside, it’s all rather clear: Tyrion learned humility in season 6.
ArgonathofBraavos,
I’m with you on this. Good build up for future episodes.
King in the North,
Is not Osha already dead?
I thought it was a good episode. I mean sure I would have loved some fight scenes but that’s not what I’m into the story for. I mean sure it’s a bonus but I prefer character development and the politics of its world.
Overall I enjoyed the episode I’m curious to see where the Hound and BWB go next.
I enjoyed it better than last week’s. The scenes between Jamie and Brienne were moving, I love Lady Crane and the KL stuff is intriguing. Is Tommen the
. And LSH is not going to happen. It looks like Jamie will go north at some stage.
Why does Edumure give a shit about his “wife” for a night and the spawn of the red wedding? That was the only scene that gave me pause… I can’t believe no one has said anything about that. Super Arya was a bit of a bummer. But the cut to black fight I thought was great, same with Blackfish’s off screen death. To each their own.
On the Plus side I think NCW has been amazing all year. This ep was more of that.
JoopStroop,
This is plausible, in my opinion. I would hate to see the Blackfish wasted like this.
Are we not getting any Ramsay/Rickon scenes?
Do you mean either of them would become a vengeful zombie? I don’t think the show would divert from these 2 main characters’ story arcs just to give life to the LSH plot line. Arya could avenge her family just the way she is. Sansa is already doing that or about to do that as she is, as well. Beric coming back on the show doesn’t have to be about the creation of LSH. I’m sold with him, Thoros, and the rest of the BwoB marching north to join the coming war against the walkers. In fact, I’m excited about that prospect!
Dragon Tender,
Yes! That was the best line of the show, I thought.
I liked Faye Marsay in Doctor Who, but she was absolutely horrible in this episode. Why does she walk like a gorilla/robot when coming out of Lady Crane’s house? And she is a facelessman, not the f***ing Joker to look so gleefully evil while chasing Arya – I think she would have made a better Ramsay than Iwan Rheon, and that is telling something. But Waif is no Ramsay.
PS: Sorry for the rant. Couldn’t help it. On a positive note, I liked almost everything else in this episode.
ok First of all WOW at that preview .
i liked this episode riverrun and Kl is what we expected ..would have been nice to see Blackfish dying onscreen though..loved arya scenes and visuals and smile of jaqen
LordDavos,
LSH could still happen, the writers could have just kept Beric alive to throw off book readers. Does it really make that much of a difference if he is alive or not?
Sam,
Tommen will probably die some other way before they even get to kings landing. Just my opinion based on the witches curse/prediction (whatever it was) on Ceresi.
thurg00d420,
Just that do you need two? Why bring Beric back as leader if you are going to drop in LSH. And how do you explain LSH after all this time.
Yes, this is also why I think Tommen would die soon – as this would make it “okay” for Tyrion to play a part in Dany’s conquest of Westeros. But for now, he knows that Tommen is still alive and is the king so I wonder if this is giving him pause at all.
Jamie tells Edmure he doesn’t care about anyone else but Cercei and acts stoic all the time but I call bs. I caught the subtle shift in expression when he gets word of the Blackfish and of course when Brienne rows off. I think he can and does have empathy for others but he brushes it aside feeling it’s showing weakness.
ArgonathofBraavos,
That is a positive take on it. Yes, I think show!Tyrion had a run of success until Cersei tried to take him down. So I hope that is true (learning humility). A little less drinking, and a little more great ideas.
LordDavos,
Who knows, she still might be a leader of some sort with them. Brienne is heading north and episode 10 does say she meets a friend who turns foe (not buying Jaimie is gonna head north by episode 10 and somehow meet her and have to fight her.) Im not saying LSH is def coming back, but I def wouldnt rule it out till episode 10 if over with. The writers have made a lot of changes to throw book reader off already, keeping Beric alive isn’t that out of the ordinary for them.
This whole ‘They couldn’t show the fight because it was done in the dark’ is more plot armor bullsh!t for me. The general opinion seems to be that such a fight favored Arya as she had the practice. Okay, lets say the other girl was an amateur at fighting in the dark. So why exactly did she accept to fight in that condition when she was inches away from the door?
Admit it, its as bad as that scene with Daenerys burning all the Khals. Poor writing.
so this is how they made sure dany appear in 8 episodes like every season .
i just know one thing the show didnt improve or did better meereen ..infact i will compare it to another qarth if not dorne
i know iam in a minority but with all the talk about character get sidelined and no development not enough screentime when they actually have given all that to the character ..but are people really that blind about what is happening with the other two characters out of the so called big three ..atleast tyrion gets to sit in a pyramid and have drinks with missandei and greyworm and able to do somethings that dany did in the books instead of riding pigs with penny
so 1 min of people being happy and city back to normal
so 2 min of slavers attacking the city and siege
1 min of dany returning
10 to 15 mins to clear the battle
really well developed isnt it ? and we see comments that they dont spend enough time developing another battle which is what they have been doing from the season opener ..
and the funny thing is people dont want to spend too much time on meereen but complaint and make fun at how everything seeems rushed as well
am not even sure meereen is even in the next episode after the promo is only about north but iam hoping that they are keeping the battle of dragons and navy and dothraki out of the promo and hope that they manage to give meereen 15 to 20 mins next episode
Sam,
Yeah, I think his episodes are numbered. I dont really like him anyway, but if it makes Tyrian feel better bout sacking KL, then even better. Seems like he is just going with the flow at this point.
Very dissappointed with the episode. Shit writing.
Love this recap and pretty much agree with all your points.
The things I liked-silver lining addition for my mental health 🙂
In KL–I’m also glad and not at all surprised that Cersei didn’t get a trial by combat. How many times has she said “trial by combat” already? A bunch, so I knew it wasn’t going to happen. And you have to give it to these guys. I seriously hate Cersei, but they are making me feel the same empathy for her that Mercy felt for Lady Crane’s performance. Misogynistic uncle who seems to enjoy your pain? Check. Son who basically ensured your demise and won’t even look at you just so he could have Marg back and because he doesn’t have a backbone? Check. The entire court backing away from you like you have greyscale? Check. Olenna is right. She has no one…except for a freakishly strong zombie giant and a creepy Maester with killer kids who confirmed the wildfire cache. On the first day of the festival of the Mother, while the HS, the nobility, the faith militant and most of the Tyrells await the trial of Loras and Cersei…The Mad Queen burns them all. This is not a spoiler, I’m just pretty sure that’s happening. She doesn’t have another move on the board unless she escapes and heads to Casterly Rock.
PS-where did she hear that rumor? Who is the only one who has shared info about secret wildfire storage beneath KL-who incidentally really should have cleaned that shit up after his sister became queen? Jaime. How will he feel when she does what he killed the Mad King for attempting? Still do anything for love Jaime? Even that? Not even Meatloaf would do that.
The Hound and BWB–this was the best part for me, because I noticed something right away. The Hound is definitely different. Other than Sansa and Arya he always seemed to hate when people tried to talk to him. Usually it would end in a fight and murder death kill. He was such a mess, embracing the violence as hard as he could because it was all he knew. I’m not saying he didn’t use that axe with usual gross affect–I’m saying he seemed…lighter? More talkative. Different somehow. He actually listened to other people–people who btw tried to kill him before. He ate with them and joked with them-still crass, but like I said, changed. I also loved seeing Thoros and Beric again. I’m fine with no LSH-her story is kind of complicated and messy for the tail end of the series-and Brienne has to take care of Sansa and Jaime still hasn’t figured Cersei out so despite their location, it didn’t feel like they could all get in their alotted places in time. Plus I just loved the image of those three salty warriors sitting around a campfire-talking about a cold wind blowing from the north. It makes sense to me that the Hound goes North. Other than wanting to kill his brother in cleganebowl-not so hype atm since Mountain will probably burn too, he’s had two emotional connections in the series. Sansa Stark and Arya Stark. He’s protected them both before-plus he’s a good man to have on the team that fights for the living.
I’m just going to skip Mereen to avoid the migraine… Except to say-Poor Tyrion. You used to read books buddy. Why aren’t you honing your weapon? And why haven’t you been having daily chats with the dragons-giving them sheep and bonding? You don’t need to tell bad jokes to entertain yourself. You could have buddy dragons!
Riverlands
Bronn was absolutely the fan voice for this. “They totally want to have sex, right?” And indeed-Jaime did give her his sword. “It will always be yours” Awww he’s still in there!!-okay so I think Brienne should get a new pommel now because she keeps getting picked on for the Lannister lion. I might be unpopular, but I think Blackfish made the wrong choice. The words are family, duty, honor-and from a realistic standpoint, what chance do you actually have against that war machine outside? But he’s old and stubborn, and he goes out swinging. I guess-cause I didn’t see it.
Jaime’s conversation with Edmure was fascinating, watching it a second time. I actually do think they are giving Jaime a one more chance window for redemption here with Edmure and Brienne both making him remember himself, look at himself. I wasn’t a fan of killing all the Tullys to get home to Cersei, but it made sense in the context of the conversation. He’s letting Edmure know that there is no wiggle room here. It was actually the first time Jaime reminded me of Tywin-in a good way. They are both really good at getting their point across.
Then Brienne and Jaime gaze. Tarth gaze. That’s another moment where you think…come on Jaime. Remember the bear? Remember what you promised?
But just like everyone in a dysfunctional relationship-it’s hard to break away from your abuser. Some day he’ll go North to her and find himself face to face with a redheaded giant who means what he says. At least-in my mental fan fiction 🙂
Arya-
The good. Lady Crane’s new monologue. With Mercy’s help the speech is now pretty much on point-exactly what Cersei went through. I love this actress. LOVE. And her warmth in those moments with Arya-the first normal conversation a girl has had in years with a mother figure. She even smiles-not in evil enjoyment-but a genuine wistful smile when she thinks about traveling. I liked their scenes together-even though I had a difficult time with WHY they had scenes together. Look, I loved the ideas flying around and the thought of Syrio (who I will always wait for along with Gendry) but the lack of Syrio isn’t why I’m upset.
Arya trained with the first sword of Braavos in Season 1 and she has been fighting for her life since Baelor. She killed a boy and hid for weeks in KL on her own, she’s gotten advice from Yoren the killer and NW recruiter, she watched what evil men do and armies forming strategies at Harrenhal. Her awareness saved her more than once, and got the attention of a cool FM. She escaped Harrenhal and took care of Gendry and Hotpie until the BWB found them-where she got a few lessons in archery. She was taken by the Hound and proved herself tough enough to become his equal companion instead of his prisoner. Then she spent forever doing montages in the HoBaW, learning to be clever, to spot lies, to take a beating and give one. To be critically aware of her surroundings. “To see” “To listen”
She’s been training practically since day one. And two episodes ago when she didn’t kill Lady Crane, she found Needle and a good hiding place and seemed on alert.
Then one episode ago she acted like she didn’t have a care in the world-like a tourist-so differently that we all thought it had to be a trick. But it wasn’t. It was not a trick. Then the Waif chased her down-no lie-like the newer Terminator model of Westeros. The way she moved, tilted her head and smiled as she ran full tilt through the streets was just…well, not very stealthy, and incredibly insane tbh. When Jaqen-face admits that he did send her to kill Arya my jaw dropped. I did love when she named herself–and Jaqen’s smile did give me a glimmer of hope that there may be more info in the future–its now a teeny little hope that is close to being snuffed out though. I feel like this had so much potential for being mind-blowing. It’s a loss.
ON THE OTHER HAND-remembering silver lining: What does she take away from her training? Therapy. She was forced to be honest with herself about her complicated feelings for the Hound. Through Lady Crane she was forced to have empathy for the vile Cersei when she lost her son. She was taught humility and patience and I think found a touch of peace–sort of like the Hound. She’s not as much of a ball of rage as she used to be. It’s still there, she just has more control. Unlike the Waif, who really should have been fired a while ago because other than her super speed and psychotic love of killing, she sucks as a FM
There were good things in this episode–but the bad things were…pretty bad. It’s shocking after a season that has so far been full of wonder and power.
Just a peeve…did we really need the kissing lesson aka butthole sniffing joke? I say no. lol
Favorite line:
Hound when he’s asking if that’s really what the guy wants his last words to be. That guy sucks at dying. 🙂
[RANT]
Had to say, this episode was pretty yuck. Lots of cliffhangers and it kept cutting to the next scene way too quickly. Same problem I had with the Season 5 finale.
I liked:
– That epic CGI shot of the Meereen siege
– Podrick and Bronn reunion. Gosh, I want more.
– Jaime’s talk with Edmure. Though I don’t really like what they’re doing with his character, I really loved that speech somehow. The things we do for love.
– Arya putting out the candle with Needle.
I didn’t like:
– “I choose violence” copout. I can’t be the only one who was disappointed when the fight simply didn’t escalate, and the fight they’ve been teasing in the trailer and the episode preview was really just a warning kill.
– The overly obvious wildfire setup. If that dialogue was any less subtle, Qyburn would’ve said: “Your grace, there is still a way out for you. There are tons of explosive wildfire caches below the city, it could make for a really awesome finale!”
– Dany’s anticlimactic return
– The Hound scenes (it felt like a comedy and they were spread all over the episode with no proper pacing whatsoever)
– The anticlimactic conclusion to the Riverrun siege.
– Drunk Tyrion talking about jokes for 5 solid minutes.
– The chase scene. Some people might have liked it, but I found it to be just unintelligable running shots here and there. Didn’t do it for me.
– “Finally a girl is noone.” Ugh, why was that so predictable and made zero sense? That whole part felt like Hollywood fanservice.
Final verdict: Probably the worst one of the Season for me (so far), except perhaps the premiere. Terrible pacing, copouts, anticlimactic conclusions, logic being thrown out the window for the sake of fanservice (I’m looking at you, Jaqen). Is 6/10 generous enough?
[/RANT]
One more thing I feel like mentioning: They really missed the opportunity for an epic establishing shot of the Meereen siege. They could’ve had a tracking shot of Tyrion walking towards the ledge as it slowly reveals all the ships, similar to how Jon first saw the wildling army in 409, (God that was epic).
I haven’t seen anyone mention the most important obstacle to LSH…
Didn’t Catelyn die like, a million years ago? It was certainly long enough for Edmure’s kid, conceived during the bedding ceremony at the Red Wedding, to be born. I’m no expert on body decomposition but pretty sure there would be nothing left of Cat by now.
Also I wonder whether those asoiaf fans who complain about GRRM’s handling of Mereen might be having a re-think after seeing the show version. The transition of War to Temporary peace to War once again… was handled brilliantly in the books. The show has mucked it up and worse they’ve made Tyrion Lannister look incompetent.
I was pretty disappointed too initially, but in defense of the Arya scene, how do you show a fight in the dark? It also probably wasn’t much of a fight. Since Arya won we must assume the Waif had no blind training. Arya probably ran her through with needle pretty quickly. So after thinking about it some I’m OK with that fight not being shown. The Blackfish though, I’m still pretty disappointed about. And I don’t think there is supposed to be any ambiguity there. There is no reason to believe Jaime’s man would lie about it. It would have been nice to see a much hyped character get a proper send off.
Remember tyrion killing Tywin scene ..from season 4 …same scene this episode would’ve been like this
“tyrion opens the door varys is waiting
tyrion : I can’t belive a guy without a cock is saving my life ..
varys : we must hurry
tyrion: what’s the rush let me get some more wine …and besides I have something else in mind
**cuts to Tywin taking shit and staring at the wall **
**Tywin ..Let’s it go****
**cuts to scene on the ship **
varys to tyrion: so are we ready to leave now
tyrion: yes …its funny though you are helping me …coz you have no cock
***bells ring **
varys : what did you do
tyrion: I killed my father… (looking At the camera )))…..
end of the scene ….
Glad it wasn’t just me. Very disappointed with that episode. Still hopeful for 9 & 10, but hopefully 9 isn’t as predictable as it’s beginning to feel (LF to the rescue etc.). A twist of some kind would be welcome at this stage. And KL is definitely ashes in 10. Will we not see Meereen again until 10? Is Arya done for the season? I’m thinking North next week, then we wrap up with Meereen, Dorne, KL, Bran and the Wall. No more Sam this year either?
dragonbringer,
I know what you mean. I actually hoped we’d see more Dany in this episode considering she’s been “absent” for 2 episodes already. Standing and and then looking at her subjects isn’t enough. LOL. Some posters here said next episode would feature Meereen. Perhaps they’ll do another Jon/Dany parallel episode. There’s no way Dany would only be in 7 episodes so she has to be in eps 9 and 10.
Ok, Tyrion learning humility would be a worthwhile theme and explanation for Tyrion’s actions this year. But I think too many of you were too eager to write off those scenes with Missandei and GreyWorm. GreyWorm showed himself to be a logical thinker in times of strife and worthy to give orders. He finally has all he can take of Tyrion’s silliness and tells him straight out No, we are not going to do what you say, we are going to do as I say, because it’s the right thing.
RG,
Still do anything for love Jaime? Even that? Not even Meatloaf would do that
That got me laughing. Seriously, your review is spot on. You captured my feelings on about every item. Great analysis.
I think the show is between a rock and a hard place with Jamie. Show!Cersei is not the evil queen that book!Cersei is. Jamie has less reason to break with her. Add Myrcella to that. Add him being aware of the Walk of Atonement. And yet, the scenes do indicate that, with the exception of Cersei, they are trying to have his character in much the same position as book!Jamie at this point in time. Thus, to me the tension. Add to that the Brienne scenes. So Show!Jamie whether he realizes it or not appears torn between Cersei and Brienne. A lot of conflict and really hard to map out without it appearing inconsistent.
Love this 🙂
Thronetender,
Good point on GW. I was like go GW when he told Tyrion to get his nose out of military matters. I also liked the fact that GW took a drink, did not like it, and put it down.
Thronetender,
OH, and yes totally agree with this:
Dany is going to leave them in charge
I don’t mind not seeing Arya fighting the Waif. I mean, it’s pitch dark you know, we wouldn’t have seen anything…
But that was a terrible mistake to kill the Blackfish, and the fact that he dies offscreen makes it even worse
Lex,
If she was brought back to life much earlier, just behind the scenes, it would make sense. If they try to bring her back to life at the current time in the show, yeah, that would be pretty dumb with the whole body decomposition thing in mind. Like I said in an earlier post, its possible they kept Beric alive to throw off book readers.
Everyone needs to stop looking for good character/plot development and coherent character choices. This show is on a beeline to the end. Everything you’re going to get from now on will be done to put characters in place for the end, regardless of how inorganically they get there. For example, Dany has been a completely ineffectual ruler her whole life. Tyrion has been quite the opposite. For no reason, Tyrion is now portrayed as naive and incompetent while Dany is once again the white savior the dark people need. As an aside, what did Tyrion do to cause the siege? How did his treaty anger/provoke the slavers who were already funding the harpies? I missed the part where the slavers were on their heels in this conflict and Tyrion let them off. Regardless, just hope for some cool action set pieces and forget about interesting writing until WoW comes out.
We finally get Book Jaime, and his great complex character and people ” Say bye to book Jaime”, “he isn’t getting his redemption arc”.
I am starting to doupt half of the people who claim to read the books have actually read them.
Jaime’s threats to Edmure were on point, after watching the inside the episode i understood Jaime was going just to offer and when he saw he will no trust him, he used his reputation to get what he wants.
Thousand of people will not die. Not for Blackfish,not for honour,not for power…not on Jaime’s watch.
He can live with people hating him but not with this.
I was so reminded on why i love Jaime’s character so much…i couldn’t even care he still loves Cersei. When she kills innocent people she is done. Also he would help Sansa… the eyes with Brienne.. !!
Great acting by NCW and the actor who plays Edmure
Welcome back on being the most interesting character Jaime!
One more thing I’m really trying to wrap my head around: YOU HAVE AT LEAST 7000 UNSULLIED AND AT LEAST 2000 SECOND SONS, HOW IS THE PYRAMID THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN DEFEND?
JonSnuSnu,
It was probably a fakeout. Really felt that way to me.
I don’t agree with your complaints. I thought it was a great episode. Besides, complaining helps no one. I wonder what was happening behind the scenes. I suspect there was a specific reason why Blackfish death was off screen, because I guarantee you that everyone in the production team would have loved him to fight, but that is not how reality works unfortunately.
ArgonathofBraavos,
I agree. The only low point for me was the waif. All I could think about was Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Her face, the action sequences with her might just as well have been evil cop robot from 1991 and that’s just too silly.
Maise Williams was great in this episode, though.
dragonmcmx,
Man, that was so epic. One of my favorite episodes of this show.
BranTheBlessed,
i have said it many times that show didnt improve the meeren in the books in anyways ..only thing they managed to do was have tyrion meet dany early (and iam starting to think that was to save tyrion from his own storyline in ADWD since they just gave him dany’s from ADWD)
and i also said no one could have ruled meereen better until unless they kill all the masters..and that is what happening
it was never about incompetence of dany or to show that she is terrible ruler ..
you put anyone on those shoes and everyone of them will fail there
the problem with meereen was the peace was never an option. GW said it better the only thing masters know is violence and they just need that and dany will just give the masters what they want she will burn them to ground
Sam,
yeah the only thing that makes me believe that dany will appear in episode 9 is how they made sure she appears in 8episodes as always by having one scene in 606 that should have been in 605 and how they made her just appear in this episode ..
i think there will lots of complaints about how them apearing will ruin battle in the north while what they are actually ruining is battle of meereen..
those jon shots standing in the preview are awesome and the battle itself looks to be greatest thing we have ever seen in TV .. i wish they could do that with meereen also
just imagine the visuals and shots with two of the big three characters and 3 dragons and IB yara and theon and volantis and yunkai navy and dothraki all reduced to 15 to 20 mins ..
dragonmcmx,
The “I choose violence” scene was def weak, I agree 100% with that. The way the previews made it seem, I thought zombie Mountain was gonna slaughter all of them, Im really bummed Lancel walks another day.
I’ve loved this season, but tonight was disappointing for me. Instead on building momentum and suspense as the end of the season approaches, almost the entire thing felt slow, meandering, unfocused. Even some of the dialogue felt surprisingly lame.
I mean, still good TV by any other standard, but even compared to actionless context-driven GoT episodes the season, this one was a major missed opportunity.
Arya: I think everyone’s already said what I’ve been thinking. The whole Braavos/HOB&W detour had a lot of potential for fantastic storytelling, and was *almost* there. Okay, so Arya’s now trained with the instincts of an assassin. Let’s hope they serve her better in Westeros than they did with the Waif (yes, I know she won, but not very elegantly or believably).
Mereen: Until this season, Dany and Tyrion were two of my top 3 favorite characters. Tyrion has been so underutilized this season, with terrible dialogue (except for the foray into the dragon’s lair, which was awesome). His scenes with Greyworm and Missandrei have been cringeworthy. Dany is in serious danger of becoming a dramatic cliche.
Blackfish: NOOOO. Why? Why send us all the way to Riverrun and introduce us to a great character, only to have him die – offscreen at that? Gosh I wished he’d gone out with a bang.
Jaime/Brienne: I did love the scenes with Jaime and Brienne. It’s a complex relationship and both acted it beautifully. I love Brienne. Incredible actress and such an expressive and proud character.
However, was their reunion and the closure on Blackfish’s fate enough to justify the Riverrun diversion? We only have 15 episodes left of the entire show, and everything needs to mean something more than “awww, cute…” So I’m hopeful that there’s more that comes out of this, such as:
A bit simplistic for a show that has thrived on such minute details and foreshadowing, but I’ll take it if that’s mostly what Riverrun was good for.
Sandor/Beric: Yay! I mostly liked this part (welcome back Beric), but the whole “let’s convince Sandor he has a reason to fight for good” theme is getting beaten over the head. Maybe Sandor needs a lot of repetition to get it (haha, I love him, but neither he or his brother won the battle of the brains).
Cercei: I hope she goes mental – I’m bored of her sitting in rooms drinking wine. Maybe she won’t survive the season. I wondered about Jaime too, but since he has developed relationships with others outside Kings Landing, I suspect she bites the dust and he has to live with it. That could go one of two ways. Revenge-Jaime or Free-of-Bad-Influence-Now-Turned-Good-Guy-Jaime. I wish it were the former but my prediction is the latter.
That’s it for me.
Onto next week! Looks awesome. Jon looks really, really insecure. Hope this battle gets him his stones back. I’ve been cool with his whole post-(re)partum-depression thing, but he needs to win and get himself a woman.
Everyone can deny it as long as they want but Cleganebowl will happen.It’s not about the context of a trial by combat or something,that has no importance to the Cleganebowl.No one even has to see it happen except us.It’s about the end to the two brothers arc.A fight between them with only one left at the end.That’s it.
The show does so many things just right! The casting is superb which does half the work and the source material of GRRM is obviously epic. That is why I get upset when they present the events in the “Xena the Warrior Princes” style and they do not let the actors shine as they should.
Blackfish is a typical example- not showing him dying defending his home is a travesty. Appearance of Daenerys on the roof in Meereen was laughable. Peter Dinklage gets longer scenes just to justify him being on the show. He is brilliant drinking wine and making witty remarks- but we should have progressed further with his character development by now.
Lack of internal logic in the show is also a problem. Why would BWB slaughter the whole village? For what gain? (other than justifying showing Hound’s rampage). How can Arya survive gut wound not to mention run like that a day after receiving it? How can Jamie be more intent on killing Edmure’s baby than taking revenge on Dorne for killing his daughter? His love for Cercei is a bit unbelievable at this point (” I have to go back to her” as his mantra no matter if he is Cat’s prisoner, Dorne adventurer or laying a siege to Riverrun. When he finally sees her they mostly accuse each other, kiss and then promise to kill the whole world to be together and then they part again). Jon goes from being a resurrected bad-ass to unsure of himself adolescent in one episode’s time. Don’t even get me started with confusing Sansa, speed-travelling Littlefinger, penis warts, beetle speeches, Dorne story, Kingsmoot of 30 men on the path overlooking the sea and building ships on the woodless island.
I am addicted to the whole story but I get so annoyed when it is not as good as it really could be!
After all my negative comments, allow me to say something positive:
HOLY #%&^@#% THE EP 9 PREVIEW SOMEONE HOLD ME
Today marks the beginning of the longest week in history.
^This.10/10
Most disappointing episode for me this year by a landslide. I don’t think it’s the weakest, I actually didn’t really like 6.01 or 6.03 that much, but I didn’t really have any expectations of those episodes. I had extremely high expectations for this episode, mostly because I expected awesome KL scenes and I really thought the show would demonstrate how much Arya has learned by having her take out the Waif in an epic fashion. I didn’t expect there to be a twist, I was quite certain she did in fact get stabbed last week, but I thought she would make up for that lapse in judgment by owning the Waif. I guess she did, but since we didn’t see it, it wasn’t really very exciting.
Here’s the way I see it :
King’s Landing : 4/10. What has this story accomplished in 8 episodes ? Almost nothing. The High Sparrow has control of the city (he basically already had that last year though), Margaery is free, Jaime is gone and Cersei won’t be allowed a trial by combat. Ok. Did we really need 8 episodes to get to this point ? Very little has been accomplished in this story, despite all the time it’s had. Obviously the only truly significant even in KL will be in the finale, and they’ve been delaying whatever that is because they want it at the end of the season. For all it’s been hyped up, the “I choose violence” moment was rubbish. Ok, he killed one shitty sparrow. Wow. The only good moment in KL was the heartbreaking expression on Cersei’s face when Tommen makes his announcement.
Braavos : 6/10. It was very anti-climactic for me, and Arya being able to run and leap, and survive all that despite her gut wound strained credulity way too much. Very “hollywoody”. Plus, her wounds re-opened, and were bleeding quite profusely, but she’s fine anyway and I’m sure the show won’t make her survival of that any more believable. A gut wound like that should have killed her. Even with Lady Crane’s sutures, there would be a ton of internal bleeding and potential infection. The fact that the sutures ripped makes it even less likely that she could survive. The chase was cool, but that’s about it.
Meereen : 4/10. The scene with Grey Worm and Missandei was cringe-worthy, albeit less so than the similar scene in 6.03. The idea that one could be taken unawares by a fleet like that is absurd, just like the idea that they wouldn’t have known a massive Dothraki horde was marching on the city is absurd. I also expected Dany’s return to be exciting and dramatic, which I didn’t feel it was, and now it seems we have to wait two weeks to see what we all know is going to happen, which is her defeat of the masters.
The Hound : 10/10. Very good stuff, I’m just wondering where it’s going.
Riverrun : 6/10. Pretty decent, and the acting was pretty phenomenal, though this whole arc didn’t accomplish as much for Jaime’s character as it did in the books. The fact that the Blackfish dies off-screen is annoying, but more importantly it means Jaime failed. He did in fact spill Tully blood, even if he didn’t do it personally. I know, in the show he didn’t make the promise not to take up arms against the Tullys that he made in the books, but it still would have been nice for Jaime to lift the siege without any bloodshed. Jaime talking about how all he cares about is Cersei was also annoying, and Edmure ordering his men to hand the BF to the Freys was very strange given that he allows him time to escape in the corresponding scene of the novels. This whole expedition was also pretty pointless for Brienne. Ok, she saw Jaime again, but she wasn’t able to recruit the Tully army, and she wasn’t able to help the Blackfish in any way. Overall, given all the time this siege has had, it didn’t accomplish what it should have.
Overall score : 6/10.
Hopefully the last two episodes will make up for it, but I’m now far more skeptical that I was before. Plus, it now seems clear that the finale will be insanely jam-packed, and therefore will probably feel very rushed, as every single season finale has felt with the exception of the first one. I guess D&D will never learn that saving 80% of your climaxes, shocks and denouements for the last hour isn’t a great idea, especially since it systematically means that these big moments aren’t allowed time to breath, and therefore lose much of their impact (the rushed demise of Stannis and the similarly rushed escape and double murder of Tyrion are perfect examples of big moments that didn’t have as much impact as they could have had because of how packed the episodes they occurred in were).
No Jon or Ramsay in the episode before the battle was disappointing, and the fact that Rickon hasn’t been allowed to be grow into a proper character (albeit a minor one) significantly lessens whatever will happen with him in the next episode.
No Bran/Benjen for two weeks in a row is also disappointing to me.
The lack of Euron is mystifying. So much for the big character introduction of the season.
Finally, I know most people don’t care about Sam, but the fact that they have had so little of him is also strange. I mean, he arrives at the Citadel at the end of AFFC. That means there’s probably two books worth of story left for him. Why have they delayed his arrival at Oldtown so much ? They easily could have had the stuff with the Tarlys earlier on in the season, and had him arrive at Oldtown in episode 5 or 6. They could have established Oldtown, and gotten that story going a bit. Why delay it to next season ? I don’t even know if we’ll see him in the finale at this point. Plus, given how fast everyone travels, I can’t fathom that it’s taken Sam so long to get there.
Overall, many stories and characters have been underdeveloped in these past 8 episodes. A lot has been going on this season, and there have perhaps been more locations and storylines than ever before, but it still feels like more has usually been accomplished in each individual story by episode 8.
There’s still a lot more I want to say about how poorly used Dinklage has been, and other things, but I’ll stop here.
The two final episodes will have to knock things out of the park, otherwise I’ll have to say this season was massively over-hyped by the producers. Still a great season overall, don’t get me wrong, but so far it’s been nowhere near the intensity I expect based on the cast and production team’s ceaseless claims that it was going to be the best season ever. Perhaps they should stop saying that every freaking year, and let their work speak for itself.
Yeah, I’m with you there. So Arya has probably learnt a few new skills, so she’s a somewhat better killer now, but that’s taken best part of 2 seasons. She’s certainly a better body washer. That’ll prove handy.
I guess when D&D said the show won’t spoil the books, they weren’t joking. I’m sure the FM plot line won’t go down this way.
But Meereen is worse!
Thronetender,
I agree with how they are playing GW and Missandei
It was obvious from the moment they Made the romance plot that they will be left behind incharge.
I thought this entire episode was highly disappointing. For me, this was clearly the worst episode of S6 and probably one of the worst GoT episodes ever.
Kings Landing: Maybe my expectations were too high after the “I choose violence” preview, but it was disappointing to see Lancel and his Faith Militant backing down so quickly. They didn’t even give the Mountain a real fight. While I like the way Margaery has managed to outplay Cersei, turning the situation in KL to her favor and using the High Sparrow to get rid of Cersei, I think the build-up of this Margaery-Cersei showdown is terrible, especially in this episode. Margaery doesn’t even show up in this episode, and Tommen looks like he’s influenced by every else but Margaery – while it should be clear that she’s the mastermind behind all this. The “rumors” are most probably about wild-fire, and I think we’re seeing Cersei going mad by the end of this season. My best guess is that KL will burn and Tommen will die (accidentally) in the wildfire. I still think Cersei will see the end of this season, only to be killed by Jamies intact hand in S7. Still, KL was probably one of the better parts of this generally very weak episode.
Riverrun: Well, that was a major disappointment! Riverrun surrendering without a fight? The Tully army obeying the commands of a Lannister prisoner? Why would they be so stupid? The Blackfish, a legend in Riverrun, completely disrespected by the Tully army? Edmure handing over Riverrun to the Freys and betraying his own house, just to save his Frey wife (who he has never seen before the wedding, who he didn’t even want to marry in the first place, and who he only knew a few hours before he was thrown into the dungeon) and his child (who he has never seen and doesn’t even know whether he/she even exists)? That makes absolutely no sense at all! The Blackfish killed off-screen? WTF? There were a lot of great ways to deal with this storyline, but that was by far the worst! Who writes this? This was soo bad – I think the Riverrun siege was the biggest disappointment for me in 6 seasons of GoT. The only good scene was Jamie meeting Brienne.
Braavos: Well, it was nice to read all these fan-speculations about who could help Arya in the last week, and I was almost surely expecting some great twist in this storyline. But there was not clever twist at all. So again, I was disappointed. The scenes with the Waif hunting Arya were nice, but the end was really lame. Why would they build up this conflict for 2 entire seasons and then not show the final fight on screen? This is so NOT GoT! Very lame.
Mereen: Please, stop having these scenes with Tyron, Missandei and Grey Worm joking and drinking! Its just not working! Most of all, its not funny! It just feels like a waste of time. Tyron is just wasted in Slavers Bay. The build-up of the fight over Mereen was not there at all. And then Dany appearing, not saying anything. Just didn’t work for me in this episode at all. My only hope for this storyline is that Drogon will just burn all the masters, Varys will organize his ships, and everyone can finally sail back to Westeros.
Riverlands: For me the best part of S6E8. The Hound was great as ever. I like Beric and I’m glad he’s back. Not sure what to expect from the hound it the next season, now that Cleganebowl is clearly off (another small disappointment, though they may still cross swords at some point next Season I hope). Generally speaking, it will be interesting to see what role the Brotherhood will play in the wars to come.
Call it tactics, not strategy.
Maggie,
I love the way you see that, I really do, but that “They have no idea how strong we are” scene in episode 6 really does make me think he was being sincere about Cersei.
See, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Say what you will about show’s Meereen, I’ll still take it over the book version. Having to read dozens of pages about Dany uttering “I’m only a young girl”, mooning over Daario, and Tyrion moping, repeating “Where do whores go?”, plus Penny…was pure torture.
Some minutes of jokes falling flat isn’t that painful in comparison.
Two remarks here if I may.
About Jaime,that was a bluff.He just used his reputation into making those treaths,it was obvious to me during the episode.They confirmed it in a video after the episode.He just plays a part so he can end the siege without people dying.That baby part was also from the books,he wouldn’t do that but beause of his reputation people actually believe him.
Now about Meereen.What’s the problem with Dany’s arrival?I ask because I heard people complained about it.Why?City is under siege,she rides a dragon so she was landed at the command center where the rest of her leaders are.I fail to see any problem with this scene,maybe there is something I’m missing.As for Tyrion I believe his development this year was quite clear,he belived he can just control everyone like in King’s Landing but it’s way more complicated,he doesn’t know this people and there are many parts involved.He realized this episode he was wrong.Execution could be better,I agree,but that could be said about everything that happens outside Westeros.
I wonder how much hype and expectations affected reactions to this episode. I’m seeing some legit gripes with Mereen (I don’t agree with all of them but they are legit). Otherwise I’d say it was pretty good, but not as action-packed as expected, maybe. For example, the “I choose violence” moment was just one guy dying (which was spoiled by preview). So maybe a letdown. But if you don’t go into it expecting a massacre based on previews, I thought it was a rather good scene. For Arya, I wasn’t expecting much of a fight given her injuries, so ending the exciting chase scene with the candle going out I thought was a cool way to end it. And I dunno, I didn’t expect Blackfish to die offscreen, but I wasn’t expecting a big last stand either, and all the dialogue and character scenes with him this episode I thought were rather good. For a character as minor as he was, I thought it was a decent sendoff.
Compared to other Episode 8’s, and compared to the climactic episode we imagined it might be based on episode info, it was maybe disappointing. But outside the debateable quality if Mereen I thought it was a rather good episode.
Season 9 episode 5.
Oops, sorry, got mixed up with Doctor Who for a moment. 🙂
A disappointing number of episode-defining moments were pulled off screen. Worse, they weren’t hidden by a cut to a different story but just glossed over entirely. It happened so often that it can’t be a deliberate misdirection to fool the audience, but rather a choice on the part of the creators. Let’s hope they don’t keep this up in the next season.
Arya’s battle was just ridiculous and straight out of the dreary stuff that proliferates in other American drama. All those theories from last episode were thrown out and instead we have a little girl who is either the luckiest person in the world or the fortunate bearer of plot-armour even Daenerys frowns at.
Not a single shot of Blackfish’s fight? Very disappointing as well, even if the set-up was pretty good. Great to see Jamie get some proper screentime after last season’s farcical trip to Dorne.
Tyrion’s story has also run out of steam massively. It’s quite amusing that for a show that once became infamous for killing major characters like Sean Bean’s Ned they now seem desperate to hold on to their main cast, to the detriment of many a storyline.
To end on a positive note: Jamie remarking that Cersei would burn cities down to protect her children? Oh yes!
Morgoth,
Yeah instead they just made her have recite her titles every time
Go back to those chapters and make a count of how many times dany says she is only young girl or thinking about darrio..
you will see there was actually more to the character self doubts compassion and ruling and background history and relationship with barristan and missandei …not just having only her repeating she is young girl or thinking about daario ..
And the plot and narrative is all over the place .
The freed men still love dany which means that riot was just sake of drama .
Everything about yunkai and fleet and IB makes it obvious they not thought through when they wrote season 4 .
Iam by no means a fan of how GRRm wrote the yunkai armies and ghiscaris but I don’t care about them but the focus should be on the one of the main characters dany and tyrion and they didn’t develop the battle either ..
Well I liked it. Not as good as last weak but I liked it nevertheless.
I never thought any of those Arya theories where true and I’m glad they weren’t.
I also never thought Arya will become a faceless assassin, so I’m more then fine with this conclusion. Neither do I think the FM will play a part in the endgame.
I also liked the ”fade to black” before the fight.
Jaime in RR was great, sad not to see the BF fight though. But loved Bronn, Brienne and Edmure.
Cersei in KL was actually nice, loved Tommen denying her trial by combat. And she is going to burn the city!!!!!
I know very well I will be in a minority here…..but I liked Tyrion scenes with Missandei and GW, great to see them slowly being more human and care free. Also liked Dany’s entrance, especially the dragon in the background. Finally it looks like she will move forward. Can’t wait to see the Dothraki, the Ironborn and all others being together.
Also didn’t mind the ships arrival, Varys was gone after all. Hopefully where I theorized he’ll go. Would be nice to be right!
Also, LSH HYPE IS DEAD! Thank god.
All in all, we are going back S1-3 where the focus will be on EP9, I never expected a HH kind of episode, so I wasn’t dissapointed. Plenty of EP8 I didn’t ”like” in the previous seasons, HH, just as I thought, was the exception. not the new normal.
One of my favourite scenes was the conversation between Edmure and Jaime. Tobias Menzies and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau were fantastic.
By the way, one of the four men killed by the Hound is this Jon Snow and other GoT-Men-Impresenator Love, I knew I saw him somewhere, but I had to do some research to identify him.
I just wonder how he got an cameo on GoT in such a spoilery scene.
Well,the preview for next episode has me sweating bullets…are they gonna give Jon his balls back or will he be needing a therapist? Cause HH was great but he was a warrior then…not sure where his character is going now and that makes me panic for BoB episode…every character is SO diminished and so diluted right now( except for Mad Queen Dany) it is hard to connect with them 🙁
dragonbringer,
I won’t deny there are some hidden nuggets between all the mess that is Essos, but I really didn’t enjoy having to go through it. Dozens of characters with names that read as if GRRM just smashed the keyboard. Seriously, Yezzan zo Qagazz, among others, blah blah blah…
I did enjoy Barristan’s POV, tbh. But Dany and Tyrion…No desire to ever go back to their chapters. The show isn’t perfect by any means, but yeah…I’ll still take a few minutes of lame jokes over entire book chapters.
He still loves Cersei, but Edmure threat was him trying to get this to end without having to fight. It’s really clear by everything, We can’t get inside to his head like in the books..but the commentary of the actors and producers help.
A really strong example that Jaime doesn’t do unnecessary violence even when Cersei ask it, is Sansa. In the very same episode Jaime says that she want Sansa dead, but he wants to honour his oath, is still proud of Brienne saving her and he is ready to let an army pass and declare her Lady of Winterfell.
Trystane is anothe example, he tried to save him from his sister wanting him dead.
Jaime is a complex character, he can be the greatest and the worst the same time, but last night was character development at it’s best. He had to take this castle, and he took it without unnecessay violence. He did what Tywin would do in a very “Jaime” way.
I usually complain for Jaime’s arc in the show, but last episode was great for him. I think some people even deny his book redemption, so i guess everyone can have different opinion, but it was book’s Jaime .
Maggie,
Finally someone who gets it nikolaj was amazing in this episode you could see everything in his face
I much preferred this episode to say episode 1 and the last two weeks. Getting Jamie and Brienne back together having Riverrun not too different from the book was a nice touch. As for not seeing the Black Fish die I’m not fussed. As has been suggested by others that the actor playing the part may not have had the skills to pull it off is worth thinking about. They may have even shot the scene but decided it didn’t work but I’m tend to think they deliberately avoided it as it would have detracted/undermined the whole point of the sequence. Yes I could have done with out the wave – they could so easily have shot a version without it – but the big emotional/thematic driver of these scenes is having Jamie take the castle without bloodshed showing Brienne that he is indeed honorable, and that he actively let her go, knowing doing so could mean more trouble for the Lannister’s latter on down the track. The only reason to see this fight was to see the fight. It’s like everyone getting upset that Sandor is not heading to KL to fight his brother.
Don’t get me wrong the fight would have been worth seeing but it doesn’t fit the story. Having Cersei loose her marbles and burn them all, including anyone from Highgarden who is in the way and perhaps her own son will be amazing. It will fracture the Lannister camp – with Jamie and Cersei possibly the only living members – and allow Jamie to follow Brienne to fight in the North. She has given him the call and he has rejected it once and so the call must be repeated and he will eventually answer.
As for the Waif’s death I think that was well handled. If a girl is going to fight in the dark there will be nothing to see. As for her stabbing last week, or rather the outcome that was not well handled. If her bags of silver had been under her shirt and deflected the knife blade enough to save her that would have made sense – lets not get into the other theories. Despite this I think the chase was not handled badly. Adrenaline and Milk of the poppy added her in her escape to begin with but every time Arya fell she injured herself some more, with her final fall almost undoing her. The question is does Arya leave the blood marks because she is not thinking or because she is leading the Waif to her and where she must face death and to live or die.
And now for Tyrion and co. I don’t think having the powers of Slavers Bay turn up at night unexpectedly is a surprise. Yes Tyrion scene are fill, twiddling his thumbs waiting for Dany to return and for them to return to Westeros I agree. But what could they have done. By shuttling Tyrion into the great Pyramid ahead of this battle, when in the books he is outside the wall amongst hostile forces – while other stories were also at play – was a mistake but having Dany back I don’t rather a positive. Dany would love to unleash her dragons on her enemies but unfortunately she needs their ships. Obviously help is on the way but the best option for her is to become a liberator and not a conqueror by instigating a slave uprising on the galleys attacking her city.
Maggie,
Agree, Jaime’s scenes where great. His scene with Edmure was really good.
You just haven’t checked enough social media and forums today,plenty of topics about how Beric is back so he can give his life for good to someone else.It will never end.We will be in the last season and we will still talk about LSH.For most people I imagine it’s just trolling at this point.
Morgoth,
Agreed. I’d say Mereen has gone on a bit long in the show (as well as the books) but only a handful of scenes have been disappointing to me, whereas the reverse is true for the TYRION/Dany chapters of ADWD.
Post-Stannis Loose Ends/Connections?
1) According to Stannis himself, Dragonstone contains vast obsidian/dragonglass resources.
2) Dany’s ancestral home, Dragonstone is possibly uninhabitated since Stannis’ death.
3) Stannis urged Sam to continue research of dragonglass/Valyerian steel.
4) Stannis’ fleet, which carried 2,000+ Hardhome Wildings to CB, has not been mentioned lately. Is it still parked nearby?
5) If available to her, Stannis’ fleet together with the Yara/Theon Iron-Born navy (plus maybe the Masters’ recent invasion ships?), Dany would have plenty of sea-worthy transport to Westeros.
6) My longshot theory is that together, Sam and Gendry (the last known Baratheon bastard not hiding somewhere in Esteros) develop the technology for producing weapons to kill WWs.
7) Like Hurley, the similar fat guy in “Lost,” Sam will turn out to be *v*e*r*y* important–especially since he now has possession of a Valyerian Sword…
8) GRRM’s stories are an allegory addressing Climate Change threatening Earth (my favorite planet!) today.
Thoughts?
<blockquote cite="comment-641772
those jon shots standing in the preview are awesome and the battle itself looks to be greatest thing we have ever seen in TV .. i wish they could do that with meereen also
just imagine the visualsand shots with two of the big three characters and 3 dragons and IB yara and theon and volantis and yunkai navy and dothraki allreduced to 15 to 20 mins ..
There is no way they are going to spend all the budget on meereen .Who cares about meereen??we have seen the bad guys there like once lol.When dany gets to westeros they will give her a proper battle if it’s needed
Had to make some last comments about KL – the High Sparrow is now ordering Cersei around? He’s gotten so blatant that he’s ordering the royal family to do things? Then that rather proves what some of you always suspected, that his end-game was indeed power. I won’t be unhappy to see him go. I hope this is by the end of this season, really don’t want to see him anymore next season. I’d rather see Greyworm twerking than see the HS anymore.
What’s going to happen to Tommen when he realizes that Marge was doing a fake out and he sold out any chance his mother and Loras had to get out of this cleanly?
Hodor Targaryen,
My problem with Arya is that Roose and Hotah died immediatey from similar stab wounds. I could even argue Arya’s wounds were worse. I don’t think my expectations for a “twist” had much to do with the lack of explanation for how she survived. It is what it is. It felt like drama for drama’s sake. As complimentary as possible, it felt beneath the show’s writing.
Add this to the lack of reasoning for Lem butchering the town and eps 7 and 8 just didn’t bridge well to me. Brienne going all the way to RR to fail is strikingly similar to complaints people had with her feast plot, albeit this was short and pointless whereas in the books the “payoff” takes the entire book.
I like that Beric is back and Arya is free. I am glad Daenrys is back in Mereen for the battle. It just feels convenient and frankly hollow. It can’t all be Hodor but why exaggerate the bridge episodes with pointless cliffhangers and quests?
It would have caused hell but maybe a year off would have helped. I feel like season 5 caused a lot of this by going off the rails and now realignment is jarring. At least it seems like it’s back on track and the “holes” were superficial.
Sorry I went off thread there.
I thought the chase thing was incredible at least. Brilliantly well directed.
Beric being back means he takes Sandor north.
Ser Gerold Dayne,
It appears I have underestimated just how crazy some people can be…..
It will never end, will it?
Oh well, to me the hype is dead and I’m beyond convinced she will never appear on the show. Thank god.
Now I’m just waiting for people to say the writers trolled them… just like last year with EP10’s tittle.
Morgoth,
That’s the thing though you can’t be the best to judge the show done meereen better than the books because you didnt even enjoy in the books so you don’t care about what changes they make in characterisation and plot decisions.
Remember I never said they were great in the books but you just can’t they say they did better because they have managed to make it even bad with plot being all over the place
Maggie,
I agree. He finally got some much needed character development. Jaime, Brienne and Sandor (with the BwB) were the highlights of this episode for me.
dragonbringer,
I will not enter a debate about Meereen, everyone is free to have their opinions.
But come on… the plot isn’t ”all over the place”, the plot is focused, it’s direct and it’s about to come to a end..
I’m not going to argue with you about characters or the story…but saying that the ”plot is all over place” seems silly to me.
dragonbringer,
Oh come on the show didn’t make meereen worse the book plot would be impossible to adapt on tv.I actually enjoyed meereen in season five,made me like dany.Now season six what could they do It’s clear they were waiting for dany’s plot to catch up.Still way better than tyrion riding a pig playing cyvasse and wondering where whores go lol.Something I agree with you though People keep complaing about jon and screentime and character development but if we look at the ‘big three’ it’s not like tyrion and dany are faring better this season Tbh I would say Jon is getting the best out of it.
BranTheBlessed,
i got one for ya…..maybe aryas whole journey was planned by jaqen the moment she passed him the axe….and he wanted her for one thing….to prove the waif…(and i will call her the waif) wasnt worthy to become a fm…..she did the job she was asked of and is now free to go with the experience of what she learnt….and blessings to boot.
The way i’m thinking is….jaqen said she was no one….arya said she was arya….i woulda thought he would know if she was arya b4 she did…he seems to know everything…even when she lies. she gets to be a fm for free…with all their tricks…and can do with then whatever she wants. I would think that kinda skill would be pretty handy in a place like westoros
Some thoughts:
– I’m stunned at how close they stuck to the books in regards to the Riverlands-plot, and it makes me think about how close the rest is to Winds of Winter. The Riverlands made for some great character-moments for Jaimie. Unlike a lot of people on here, I never saw him as reformed or redeemed in Feast. Yes, he moved away from cercei, but everything else he did, made it into the show. To me, he comes off as even more of cold sociopath because we now know that he is actually capable of honor and kindness, though only when it does not conflict with his desires.
– Lady Crane was an awesome character, slightly crazy. She used to cut up her lovers out of jealousy but she sowed them up after. Can’t wait to read about her in Winds (or Lady Stork).
– I didn’t mind them not showing Blackfish’s death. I dont think we needed to see him go out like a boss. Could have been nice, but didn’t really mind.
– I LOVED Brons headlock of Podrick.
– I like that they gave us Lem Lemoncloak instead of inventing some other character.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
That character (like the waif) was Lem in name only. I did like the Pod scene with Bronn.
Mihnea,
I’ll take your bait. Mentioning Catelyn throughout the episode and how she is similar to Cersei in defending her children and then having the hound piss in the river she’s floating in felt like a troll move. I know how you feel about D&D vs GRRM so I am sure you can defend it as me not understanding or overthinking.
Fair enough but after this latest episode for me Arya’s Braavos adventures are on level with Dorne in terms of shit script writing.
The Faceless are much more complex in the books with the priestly characters like Kindly man, Waif being fleshed out. In the show though, you could replace Jaqen with a dummy, that’s how little a role he’s had in Braavos.
D&D have oversimplified the plot to a personal vendetta between Arya and the Waif. And they’ve made it worse by making the Waif look overly powerful next to Arya for drama and shock value. Its no surprise then they had to resort to offscreen asspulls cause there was no way they could make a wounded Arya beating the Waif look even remotely believable.
To make it worse, how did Arya learn the art of peeling off the face of a dead? And are the audience really supposed to believe that this girl who is bleeding heavily from a stab wound sits in her quite little room carefully peeling off the face of her victim?
Terrible writing. I thought it couldn’t get worse than that Khal burning scene but boy was I wrong.
Confusing episode for me.
Arya story-line ending in Braavos was good but how many more good people need to be killed to protect this Stark family. It is scary that they feel so little remorse for the people that give their lives for them.
Mereen arc was good but could you have Dany at least say a word or 2. The big entrance skit is getting dull.
Love the hound and the fact he is going north with the BwB and maybe Brienne?
KL was also good but just to little character development between Tommen and the HS.
There was plenty I enjoyed in this episode and I also agree there were parts which felt like a cop out but I don’t feel as disappointed as many seem to.
Ayra was clearly supposed to only have injuries which amounted to flesh wounds and with the best will in the world, that was just not believable given her stabbing. Apart from that I thought everything worked well and as you can’t see a fight in pitch darkness, I’ve no problem with how it was done. Tbh I am just so glad to have Ayra going home, I really don’t care much about the holes in the story. Goodbye Faceless Men/House of B&W…..at bloody last! ?
One thing though….I’ve watched it once in a hurry while getting ready for work this morning…..was that a blond man looking like Olyvar who was standing looking at Lady Crane? Or was it just the Waif? I didn’t have time to go back and check.
I felt Jaime’s scenes were spot on. He’s trying to resolve the situation without bloodshed, and do what he can for Brienne despite them being on opposing sides. I was a bit disappointed they cut the Blackfish’s demise on screen but only the other hand, at the time I was a bit irritated that he just rushed off to pointlessly die which felt like a waste of his character.
I groaned when another drinking game scene began in Mereen. What is that all about? Trying to develop a relationship between Tyrion and GW/Missandei? It does seem unnecessary when it’s coming at the expense of other more important storylines feeling rushed.
Loved The Hound scenes. I did have a chuckle at the lines “They killed a friend of mine” and Thoros’s reply “You have friends?”
I’ve previously said there wouldn’t be a trial by combat. It was obvious the HS would shut that door and leave Cersei boxed into a corner. I can see Tommen dying in a wildfire carnage Cersei unleashes but who else gets incinerated because of her actions? I really don’t want Margeary to die but I bet she will ?
Overall, I enjoyed the episode. There was much to like. Bring on the Battle of the Bastards!!
My least favourite episode of this season, still some great moment of course – especially Cersei seeing her rock solid plan collapse at the hands of her own son.
Very good to see Beric and Thoros again, and the Riverrun side plot came to a decent and believable resolution
Disappointed by the Arya storyline in the last two epis really, although I appreciate the “Occam’s Razor” was always a more likely option than the more out there theories. Even given that she didn’t know of Jaqen’s orders to the Waif, the carefree nature of last week’s stroll without it clearly being a planned bait and lure is a bit mystifying. But we have to live with the fact that Arya just thought she could walk away from the FM and/or the Waif.
As someone said it just didn’t need the false drama/tension of the stab wounds since that aspect and the (at least partial if apparently too quick) recovery) just stretched suspension of disbelief way too thinly (although stab wounds are not necessarily fatal of course). It could have worked just as well IMO without the stabbing scene, having Arya going back to see Lady Crane to say goodbye and just being surprised there as it would be a logical idea for the Waif to check the place out.
Enjoyed her last moments with Jaqen though ( and given what happened seeing the Waif’s eyes we didn’t really need to see Meryn Part 2). And it was always pretty certain that detailed account of the Braavos side trip was not in GRRMs original 5 year gap plan and mainly accounts for the passage of time until she would re-appear; so the issues with whether it may well be repeated eventually in the books.
Yeah it’s all a bit odd and was underwhelmed but have thought some more
Pros
Kings Landing, not botgered by apparent lack of Cleganebowl, i either expected Lancel vs Franken-Mountain as a mind screw, eg Cersei by “winning” is still being made to facilitate the collapse of her family
But this is good also, with Jaimie and Olenna forced out of the city it really is cornering Cersei, having Faith Militant and Tommen increasingly in their grip shows the metaphorical noose is tightening which sets things up nicely for drastic action
dragonmcmx,
The anxiety would be too overwhelming this week
BranTheBlessed,
Just because you didn’t enjoy it, doesn’t mean it’s terrible writing.
Arya’s scenes where very good, in my opinion.
And the Khals burning was a highlight of the season for me.
ArgonathofBraavos,
imagine what she’s gonna say to missende when she finds out she’s drunk….and tyrion for giving it to her
Mihnea,
Not me. Nothing beats the ending of the Door and poor Hodor. That was great television.
Jenny,
This is what people said about before seeing watchersonthewall episode ..and look what happened
The job is to make them care and develop …
Thats what iam thinking maybe they are just making dany and tyrion stall before they get to westeros and we will see lot of development and actual scenes and dialogues for dany that shows her character but iam scared that lots of those battles will be going to be like dany giving speeches and battles ending like Robb’s victories.
I never actually said the books are better or show made it worse what am saying is show did not make it any better they just didn’t give anything for dany to do in past 3 seasons…its the same as in the books not better ..
Mihnea,
It is though ..
Iam still wondering what was the point of freedmen rioting against dany …where did it lead. They are just looking for dany like they did before. .
But on the other hand it was a visually impact scene where many remember the riot but how many remember that freedmen asking when will she return or how they respect GW and Missandei .
I think that some of the disappointment is because people built up ridiculous theories that then didn’t happen. It is why TWOW is destined to be a disappointment.
I disagree that the episode was a mess, and am surprised anyone would describe it that way. Neither of the two deaths needed to be shown, although I think they should have at least given us a shot of the Blackfish facing the Lannisters.
Meereen has always been the weakest part of the story. It hasn’t gotten any better since Tyrion arrived, but it is certainly not any worse. Looking forward to that finally ending this season.
The fact that LSH is definitely cut makes this episode good by default.
Overall I thought it was a solid episode, and a step-up from the last couple of (average) episode. I would probably rank it as the fifth best this season. Despite enjoying the episode, I would say that the last three episode haven’t been spectacular (after some incredible episodes earlier in the season), so I now rank the season a little bit further behind S4 as my favourite (still 2nd best). It will take some incredible episodes for the season to overtake S4 now, but who knows?
Tycho Nestoris,
If they are going north it would be interesting to know what kinda numbers they have and could they be a help in the battle
Acting was top notch. Have never been much of a fan of Nikolaj but got to say he’s been killing it this season. Headey and Dinklage , as usual , a class apart.
dragonbringer,
i think there will lots of complaints about how them apearing will ruin battle in the north while what they are actually ruining is battle of meereen..
Actually no it won’t. You’re going to get plenty of Dany and Mereen battle in the finale.
Cenk’s gonna be off his rocker this week now that he finally got something right. Looking forward to it.
Con
Blackfish dying apparently pointlessly
Having him escape with a 100 men or so with Edmures blessing (hey it’s as good as Mormonts 62 so…) would have been a reasonable trade-off instead of inexplicable capitulation
And BF being loyal to Sansa along with Brienne would have been good for furthering the aura of power around her, similar to Jon having Mel and Davos so good for upward arc
And just because you enjoy it doesn’t mean its good writing, yeah?
redxgod,
That’s fine, there are plenty of moments/scenes that most of the fandom loves that I didn’t particulary liked.
Doesn’t mean it’s bad writing, though.
BranTheBlessed,
Of course not.
I never said such a thing.
I actually agree with you on Arya. I only agree that it was OK for them to do it that way because it was so predictable and anti-climactic. We all knew it was coming when they showed that shot of her blowing out the candle at the end of 6.6. I was actually discussing this with another poster in a different thread, how we were worried that the ending to the House of B & W would be the predictable dud that ended up occurring. I fucking loved the story line, and for them to all of a sudden introduce the fact that the FM kills innocents, and then have the run of the mill story line where Arya questions their judgement and ultimately defects – it just seemed too simple. Part of it is the high standards the show has set for itself. I’ve been saying it all season that I want to be wowed by the story telling and it just isn’t there anymore.
Regarding the Black Fish, maybe they didn’t have to show the fight, but they could’ve at least showed him dead on the floor with 4-5 dead Lannister’s surrounding him. Have Jaime walk into the room to see that briefly and that would’ve sufficed.
Did you guys ever stop to think there might be a reason why BF’s death was off screen? I mean, I wouldn’t put it past them what with some of the other choices they’ve made so far but the way it was revealed was hasty and vague enough to warrant a possibly different outcome. Although tbh I don’t really see a reason for him to stay on the show. What would his role be at this point forward? Love the actor. He brought a lot of gravitas to the role.
Knight of the Walkers,
The fact that LSH hype died today, this alone puts it in my top 10. Kidding…
But seriously, it was good to finally see this die.
Ravyn,
i’m pretty sure that when arya blows out the candle in episode 6…that she is doing it to practise her sword play in the dark….which makes me think, that everything she did in the next 2 episodes was planned……even down to the blood trail so the waif could follow her…thats why jaqen says she is no one…and thats why he lets her go
Con
Arya and the Waif, they’ve played this James Bond action hero, too much mess and attention
Thinking back to Jagen at Harrenhall, the dead bodies came from nowhere and he killed in dynamic ways
So it would have been better to play it as a cunningness battle and make Arya vs Waif a battle of wits rather than a martial battle, Syrio may have been cheesy and Fight Club daft, but the fart bladder with pigs blood would have actually been a reasonable idea though not without risk and ither tgings to sniff out poison etc
Over the season it would have actually been good to introduce Aryas warging abilities, let her spy as a Cat etc. This could have actyally been great as Arya coukd have outwitted the more highly skilled Waif and detected her via Cats etc,
So just as her wolf dreams prevent book Arya from being no one and is great thematically, her Cat warging would have been great
At the end of it all we’d have a sense of.Arya as a more complete and cunning assassin character development wise but instead we’re left with a sense her martial ability is improved but not other areas
Darjan,
i thought the episode was fantastic…its really made me excited for the final 2…but if i get any more of this “set up”..i’m gonna be really pissed….2 episodes left…i want some action godammit
A bit of overthinking, maybe. Because I really don’t see any hidden meaning in the Hound’s pissing moment.
If there’s any trolling, I’d say it is D&D not straight out confirming LSH is out, the way they did with Strong Belwas. I wish they would just come out and destroy this dead horse so people would stop beating it and getting their hopes up.
And so the rest of us can finally get a break of all the “LSH confirmed!” stuff.
jymion,
Well I don’t think they make the BB. I think they make the War with the Others.
Morgoth,
Then the hound is an asshole. Who pees in a river when there’s a tree or grass nearby?
Morgoth,
Martin had 2, 2!!!! interviews where he said LSH isn’t in the show, along side Loras brothers and Strong Belwas.
2 interviews where he clearly said this. People were just blind and lying to themselves.
Leuf,
if u believe the whole thing was planned the moment arya gave him the axe…..it can exist
Tycho Nestoris,
Every human ever……..
Seriously, if you think him peeing in the river was a ”nod” a subtle ”refference” to LSH you really think these things way to hard.
He took a piss in the river, that is it.
^ This!
Weakest episode. Utter waste of Daeny, Blackfish died off-screen and Jaime still a puppet for Cersei.
Shame Battle of Meereen will be reduced to few minutes but budget reasons I guess.
Trailer already showed Jon and Davos naitivity. I bet Sansa will talk to him about Vale coming to help them instead of going to death. But Jon could ignore it and marching on, Going against Ramsay with this force is suicide and then charge straight at them too. I don’t know about you but got bad feeling about Tormund, Wun Wun and Ghost. Even more so that this will be Jon’s stupidity and not Sansa’s. Who was blamed by our fandom from episode 4.
BranTheBlessed,
It was obviously bad writing, our friend Mihnea is just in denial, as always. As enjoyable as this season has been, there have been literally dozens of plot holes, inconsistencies, and moments that just didn’t make any sense for the characters or the story. The quality of the writing is very far below what it used to be.
GRRM is obviously better at crafting a story, despite his shortcomings.
The show remains great, but let’s not pretend D&D are such good writers. In fact, the two Cogman episodes had far fewer plot holes, which further highlights that you can deviate from the novels without making the show nonsensical. D&D are just not very good at doing it. Cogman maintains the feel of the novels, despite streamlining. Basically he’s just a better screenwriter.
Markus Stark,
I liked a episode/scenes you didn’t.
therefore I am in denial… LOL.
Co
Meereen
We’ve had a few episodes. Varys should jave left a few episodes ago. His ship would have been seized on its way past the Siege ships plus his little birds should have picked up on the preparations
Ok so they kill Barristan off and replace him with Tyrion, ok fone he can prove his worth after all he knows his stuff from Blackwater and it can be useful character development
No Wildfire this time? Well we know from.Brans Saddle he has a mind for engineering Gadgets so why not something like Pythagoras device that would burn ships by mirrors utilising sunlight and would pick them up and drop them etc
Why not have Greyworm show his ability as a field commander and why he was elected by leading a sally to scupper siege works
Both aren’t enough to stop siege but can slow it, long enough for Yara and Dany to intervene but instead we get Dany out of nowhere back to take charge and make Tyrion look like a political fool of no value
Darkrobin,
there was a scene in the trailer of tyrion pouring wine back into the bottle…..and we havent seen it yet…so maybey you guys are right…humility and a really good tyrion idea would kick start everyones love of the worlds most loved dwarf…its been waning a little lately
An underwhelming episode, certainly. I was glad to see Beric again, partly because I like the character and think Richard Dormer is good, but also because it settles the LSH question. She’s out of the show, as Martin apparently confirmed recently – let it go! The BWOB appear to be back so that the Hound has someone to join up with and go north. It’s also notable that they acknowledged the true war to come; LSH wouldn’t have cared about white walkers.
Disappointed that the Blackfish died and I agree that it was anticlimactic. The scene needed something more, even if it was just him standing there defiantly with his sword at the ready and Lannister soldiers walking towards him. It felt truncated. And no, he’s not going to get thrown into a river and become a version of LSH. Arya will probably get the Freys now, with or without the BWOB and the Hound.
I quite enjoyed the Edmure and Jaime scene, even though I’m frustrated that Jaime is still Cersei’s no. 1 fan. The little wave between Jaime and Brienne felt cheesy, though.
Arya’s chase scene seemed preposterous with that injury. Her past two seasons haven’t been a total waste but they haven’t been good either. Honestly, much as I love Arya and Maisie they could have given her a season off like Bran.
Crossing my fingers that the next two episodes are strong because after eps 2-5 of this season were so good, the last 3 have been various degrees of disappointing.
Mihnea,
haha no, every human ever does not.
Whatever person. You know what I think and blah blah. You know what D&D and George think. Every thing a book can do a show does better. When was the last time a character took an insignificant piss on this show? They trolled us and well, that’s it.
I usuallu give show benefit of the doubt
Eg not fussed about no LS at this point and am curious tonsee where Beric and Sandor goes
But while RW in season 3 had excellent season long setup
KL does this season too
But Braavos, Mereen and i suspect the North are a little sloppy
Tycho Nestoris,
All right, mate. Believe whatever you want.
I thought it was good, having Clive Russell have to train sword fighting and execute a fight against multiple people, would seem more Barriston Selmy than Arthur Dayne, so that is perfectly acceptable.
Arya fighting in complete darkness would of been quite bad on film as well.. because we wouldn’t see anything, and would come across like the Shelob scene from LOTR which they had to light so we could see.
Fine with those decisions. They make production sense.. although would of been great to see them both fight.
I wouldn’t go that far, only a couple of scenes felt a bit extraneous to me and overall I enjoyed the arc.
What I take from it is that it took a very long time for Arya to realise that no matter what has happened in the past, and whatever she thought she could be, that she is still a Stark and her destiny is inextricably tied up with Winterfell and her avenging her family.
TBH in the books that could just as easily have been the resolution after Arya’s warging and he restoration of her sight without the need to prolong her stay in Braavos.
Ghost’s Lunch,
But maybe Varys and Danny are one and the same? They are never in the same place at the same time?
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Yeah, this.
Arya will never be No one, she will never be a FM. She will always be Arya Stark.
To me this also confirms that this will be the outcome in the books too. She won’t be sent on a mission by the FM as many theorized, but that eventually she will run back to Westeros.
I agree, this is the first season where all of the “big 3” have been sidelined for other characters. It seems like Tyrion got the worst of it. I don’t mind seeing Meereen in the next episode. That story needs some screentime to be resolved satisfactorily.
I am also hoping that Jon finally gets proper focus in the next episode. Based on the preview, it looks like he is as broken as before, on the eve of battle. I hope there will be some psychological battle for him here as well. And fighting this battle helps him to get some sense of purpose back.
Corbyn Stark,
The teaser showed only the battle.
I wonder if we will see any other locations.
I myself think will do, at least 10 minutes of scene in other places before we go to the battle.
This episode shows the dangers of hype and that “anti-climax” is not a bad word; it can be used effectively, dramatically, as was the case in this episode.
Sean T. Collins said everything I’ve got to say about this episode, devoid of expectations based on silly theories or the books.
I’m bummed we didn’t see the Blackfish die, and drunk-Tyrion was grating on me (at the beginning of the scene, at least), but otherwise this was a superb episode, one of the very best of the season. It had hopeful reunions and heartbreaking break-ups, all of them wonderful —Jaime and Brienne reunite but can’t act on their feelings as they are on opposite sides of a war, only to sadly part ways soon after; Tyrion and Varys part ways, slightly awkwardly as it should be, only for the masters to attack then and Daenerys to arrive just when everything seems lost; Cersei breaks up with the whole world, it seems, when her son essentially condemns her to death; Sandor has a surprisingly cheerful reunion with the Brotherhood, which has not corrupted at all and in fact seeks to be useful in the new war for the Dawn, and Sandor may help them in that quest; Arya has a beautiful reunion with Lady Crane, a reunion in which Arya experiences the closest thing she has had to a mother since the very first episode of the show, and then she breaks up with the faceless men in the most decisive way possible.
Such a beautiful episode. Visually stunning and with some spectacular sequences (I didn’t expect to see a full-on, on-screen siege of Meereen), poetic in its reunions and break-ups, which gave us some much-needed character-work, especially for Jaime. I really can’t see how this isn’t a fan-favorite of the season. Though I agree with some of Sue’s points, the idea that this episode will “go down as one of the low points of the season” boggles my mind. After Cogman’s episodes, which were good but lacked a certain cohesion, this episode felt like a return to form, with a clear theme going throughout the piece.
Luka Nieto,
Completely agree Luka.
Well said!
EDIT: Nice review. Thanks for posting it. I think I’ll add him to my list, of must read.
A 6,5/10 for me. My lowest rate this season.
I had such high expectations for this episode! A large battle at Riverrun, a smart plot twist concerning Arya’s wounds and the Mountain going berserk.
Meereen started decent and I loved the CGI fleet attacking. But the drinking scene and Dany’s anticlimatic arrival were meager.
Such a big build-up for Arya and the Waif, and we don’t even see Arya killing her. Such a shame. So, she was plot protected after all. That stab by the Waif was pretty deep, but it didn’t matter at all this episode. No plot twist with Jaqen, or fake blood. So Arya was actually dumb enough to walk around without Needle in the open?
King’s Landing was another disappointment. Perhaps I am spoiled with other Game of Thrones scenes, but Cersei just having that one Sparrow killed…. I was really hoping for more action and more deaths. King’s Landing has been such a drawn-out storyline this season. Thankfully the High Sparrow didn’t appear.
The hound’s arc was very solid and it was nice to see Berric and Thoros. But somehow I was expecting more.
And Riverrun…. Wasn’t there a large battle shot? No battle and the Blackfish dying off screen (if he did) was a big let-down. Also, I am probably in the minority, but I thought the Bronn and Podrick scene was a waste of precious time.
The preview for next week seems very awesome. But I thought the same for this week.
Not liking the episode is all fine and good, that should go without saying, but the idea that it’s a “mess” is very strange to me. It felt like the most cohesive episode of Game of Thrones in quite a while, especially after two Cogman episodes that suffered from a total lack of cohesion of any kind between the very disparate storylines; the individual scenes were good (sometimes great), but it felt like we were just seeing scenes that had to be dealt with, and Cogman had to write them… and he wrote beautiful scenes, but not beautiful episodes. This was a beautifully cohesive episode full of beautiful scenes, and just a few clunkers.
I really don’t give a shit about Arya at this point, honestly. In season 2 she had Tywin and the original version of Jaqen to prop up her story, in season 3 Hot Pie, Gendry, and the Brotherhood, and of course in season 4 a couple of her scenes with the Hound were among the best scenes the show has ever done. But Arya wasn’t really the main thing making any of those interesting. Lady Crane was really the only thing I liked in Braavos and she’s dead now too.
To be fair I basically felt this way in the books as well. Only in book 1 did I like Arya more than Sansa (as we were clearly meant to at that point).
The Riverrun scenes were good besides Blackfish dying offscreen, but I’m left wondering whether in show-verse they’re basically a diversion like season 4 Craster’s Keep – as in, did that storyline just occur for its own merit with no larger tie-in to the rest of the story? Maybe Jaime being absent from King’s Landing will be important in the finale, and that’s why they needed to do it.
My favorite part of this episode was the Hound and the Brotherhood I suppose. The Hound became my favorite character in the whole show in season 4.
Though that reminds me, a couple lines in this episode felt TOO fanservicey. Namely Tyrion starting to telling the honeycomb joke again, and The Hound saying he prefers chicken. I’m glad they didn’t do anything quite so obvious in Jaime and Brienne’s conversation.
It’s a review as well as a recap. Giving her opinion is part of her job. Why would you want to just read a recap of the episode with no insight whatsoever?
I loved Edmure’s speech to Jaime, whom I consider to be the most cold-hearted bastard on the show – even worse than Ramsay or Roose Bolton. Any tearing down of the Lannisters, describing them as they really are, is ace in my book. Jaime’s return speech just showed his inherent nastiness. He is colder than a White Walker heart and matches Cersei so well. To themselves they are the center of the universe and no one else matters. For someone who ‘loves her children’ Cersei doesn’t seem to be mourning all that much and she was going to poison Tommen back at the time Stannis was marching on the Red Keep, so I don’t buy that BS for one second. I’ve heard it said that twins have a special bond that no one else can understand. The scenes with both of them in this episode truly showed that, IMO. Jaime’s meeting with Brienne did manage to bring forward a small bit of that change that she had effected in him but the following scene with Edmure showed how fully that little spark of ‘whatever’ – I can’t call it decency – disappears whenever his pea brain turns back to thoughts of his twin sister.
I don’t understand what all the time spent in the House of Black and White was meant to do when Arya just leaves at the end, still herself but older and wiser perhaps? People still seem to die around her at an alarming rate.
I loved the scenes with the Hound, Thoros and Beric. They must be there for a purpose, but what? Intriguing to contemplate where this is going.
Meereen was clumsily done, although I did find the bit of character development involving Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei to be amusing. Missandei getting drunk so easily made me laugh and I liked GW’s stoic stubbornness. But Dany’s sudden entrance was cringe-worthy and I was confused about the ships – were they burning at the end? Did Drogon do that? It was very unclear.
The Kings Landing storyline is moving at such a slow pace. It was just more of the same and the only thing I took out of it was that there will be no trial by combat. Yay! I would like to see something far more interesting come out of Cersei’s trial.
My crazy insane prediction for next week (I am 0-58 so far….).
The battle is going badly and Baelish arrives and joins Ramsey’s side betraying Sansa but in the end Drogon appears to help Jon win the battle. R+L=J confirmed by dragon!
Make it happen!
Corbyn Stark,
The episode is 60 minutes. Spending about 10 minutes on other places and then 50 on the North should be enough.
That said I wouldn’t mind the episode to focus only on the North.
I…… liked Tyrions scene with Missandei and GW, better this time even, hearing Missandei laugh and seeing GW smile was great and sweet *runs and hides in the bushes*
Luka Nieto,
He’s a troll.
He did this on the Twitter thread also. Don’t mind him.
Mihnea,
He may just be confused about the purpose of the recaps…? A strange confusion, that’s true.
Huge step down from last week’s episode. The most solid arc is from the Riverrun. The Mereen is the weakest. They should have resolved it instead of dragging the siege in the next episodes, since the dragons deus ex machina will predictably end it.
I feel bad for Peter Dinklage. He’s a good actor but the writing for his character this season is so weak.
Corbyn Stark,
Hahaha, I’m with you 100% on that.
Phoenix_from_Ice,
I disagree. It will be a combination of Dragon, Dothraki and the Greyjoys from the sea that end it.
Corbyn Stark,
I can see a connection between Game of Thrones and the USA’s problems. Lots of internal division amid threats from outside, unworthy people vying for leadership along with the insane – how it will all end is scary stuff to contemplate.
ygritte,
LOL
By plenty you mean 10 mins at maximum…
And i wonder how long it will be other than that if in the finale where there will be KL .,bran.,arya .,and dorne and theon and yara and Euron and probably Sam and gilly and hound and BWB and of course Jon and Sansa.
Plenty time to develop the characters at meereen ..
But if you say so ..I agree there will be plenty time to solve all this in finale .
On the other hand I see people complaining about missandei and GW again and saying that their time must be given to others and especially north ( how surprising )…
I have said many time and say again the screentime they both take up belongs to dany and her story and they are developing them..they are getting the same amount they received in the books..
and they have been speaking with tyrion and dany ( 2 main characters ) ..
If one take the scenes they had only 3 main scenes two drinking and one when tyrion treated with masters …and if you put all those screentime combined that is still less than what Sam or hound had in just a single episode ..
Oh you mean the most obvious of explanations turned out to be the correct one? I have found it hilarious how everyone needs every moment of this show to be a twist waiting to happen. The whole Syrio shadow business leading up to this episode had me laughing. When the moment came and it was just a regular dude walking past I could feel all the conspiracy theorists scream out in rage. Same with all the people that insisted that the waif was just an aspect of Arya’s personality or that Jaqen was the many-faced god. In story telling, just like life, the simplest answer is usually the best.
ArgonathofBraavos,
100% agreed with this! Just wanted to add one more voice to the few claming that the episode wasn’t ”poor”. I really liked all the dialogue and enjoyed how both fight scenes from Arya or Blackfish were omitted. The only thing I agree with Sue’s critic is Meeren feeling like a letdown, again anyway…
Simon,
the iron born will do a sneak attack…board their ships and kill them so that there wont be any damage…then yara and theon will look like heros when they come to barter with dany…if yara gets her trust…u gotta wonder wtf vary’s went
Overall I liked the episode. It was mostly set-up but I didn’t mind that. I still think there’s a chance that Cleganebowl is happening. Cersei just has to dig up some dirt on the High Sparrow and make him allow the trial by combat.
I’m used to being disappointed and baffled by the Braavos storyline. It’s been written as poorly as the Dorne stuff for two seasons now, so it makes sense that in the end D&D couldn’t end it properly either. It’s been so ridiculously badly handled that I honestly just have to laugh at it all. Arya didn’t develop as a character, she learnt very few things, she’s still not a warg, and apparently the FM were introduced just to make them look incompetent and to give Arya something to do. It doesn’t seem like in the show the FM will be present in Oldtown or in any other location that’s going to be significant to the endgame. The Waif having for some inexplicable reason a personal vendetta against Arya cheapened the story. For some reason the writers thought that instead of exploring the moral implications of what the FM are doing and Arya’s character in depth, we wanted to see Arya and a random girl trying to beat each other at who’s being a bigger brat.
Exactly what did “Jaqen’s” smile mean? (I refuse to accept that he was Jaqen, no way he could be this incompetent and boring) Apparently Arya could just walk away from the FM, which makes sense, since there’s no way she knows that many of their secrets, but it does make the running-for-her-life drama in the last eps look idiotic. Oh well, I guess nothing in the storyline made sense in the end.
ghost of winterfell,
Yeah I agree but I bet everything I have that they will be the fous in the next two seasons considering not many of the secondary characters will even make it and they will be the center of the resolution of the series.Though tbh I am fine with Jon’s story this season.Now he is my favourite characters and I wouldn’t mind having him on screen for like 30 minutes every episode lol but I understand the constraints of the story.People forget that this time last year many of us were scared Jon was not even going to be in season 6 and come back in season season 7 and there were many people who thought he would be back by episode 5 or six but there he was in episode 2 so I’ll take what I can get.Being dead was part of his story this year and death did change him just not in the way people wanted him too but it makes sense to me.He is basically depressed and I think we will see him get the will to live back.It’s going to be a double battle for him mentally and physically.We see in the preview that he has a scene with sansa and one with melisandre before so obviously it’s not going to all action like people thought.
On the other hand that preview was so good how am I supposed to wait for a week lol
Could not have said it any better.
I enjoyed this episode and I think it’s one the best of the season.
This website is such a buzzkill for me sometimes…
Overall I did not like this episode that much. From the teasing and build-up there were several disappointing things:
Cercei “choosing violence”: This line was hyped since the first trailer came out and the seemingly big confrontation resulted in the death of only one unnamed sparrow with no consequences at all.
The Blackfish’s death: It isn’t out of character for him to choose not to run away again and to die in his home, so I’m not really angry about this, but it was a stupid and disappointing decision nonetheless. Why die fighting for a lost cause, when there is a family member desperately asking for your help? From all the build-up in the last episodes, I really got the impression that the Blackfish holding Riverrun is an important plotpoint. Of course, I expected Jaime to lift the siege, but I always thought the Blackfish would manage to escape and join Brienne to help Sansa. Furthermore, they kind of butchered his relationship with Edmure. There were no words spoken between the two of them and the last long stare, when Edmure entered the castle made it seem like he was mad at him. Note that in the books it is Edmure who helps the Blackfish escape from Riverrun and he seems to be very proud of his uncle.
Arya wore her plot armor his episode. Recovering from several stab wounds in the gut in only one night to a point where you can run and jump around the city… Also, they totally screwed us with the promo picture that made it look like Syrio Forell might come to Arya’s help. I had to laugh when I saw the scene where it was taken from and the guy behind the Waif turned out to be some random Braavosi extra 😀
Meereen… please, no more scenes with Tyrion trying to get Grey Worm and Missandei drunk. We already had that one awkward scene in one of the earlier episodes and it is just a waste of screentime. I mean where is the point with scenes like that? They don’t move the story forward, there is no character development… I guess it is supposed to be funny, but it just doesn’t work for me.
But I’m glad to have Beric and Thoros back. From the last episode I got the impression that they were going to turn the Brotherhood Without Banners into a bunch of bloodthirsty bandits with no sense for justice at all (which would have been “character” assassination, even with LSH as their leader), but now it makes sense: Some of them have gone rogue (basically a show stand-in for the Brave Companions) and they are executed for it by the “real” BwB.
I don’t mind that we won’t see Lady Stoneheart in the show, but I’m very curious were they are going from here, especially with Beric’s character. Will he give a “last kiss” to some other character, maybe the dead Blackfish? What will the BwB do if Beric stays their leader? Will they run into Brienne and Pod? In this case I doubt that they would try to hang them. I mean, yes, they made a point of Brienne still carrying a Lannister sword, but without LSH there is no BwB vengeance campaign against the Freys and Lannisters and even if Beric doubts Brienne’s good intentions, he would challenge her in a trial-by-combat first… maybe against the Hound? 😀 Also, the Red Wedding 2.0 theory does not feel right anymore, if the Blackfish is dead, LSH does not appear and the BwB obviously has no intention to avenge the Starks.
The only fan theory that became more plausible after this episode is the “Mad Queen theory”. With no trial-by-combat possible, I think Cercei will find a more radical way to escape her holy trial. So yeah, maybe Qyburn found the Mad Kings wildfire storages and she will order him to “Burn ‘em all” (or at least to burn down the Sept of Baelor). The only question is: Will Jaime make it back to KL in time to find out what she is planning and become a Queenslayer? At some point there must be a quarrel between the two of them. Jaime still does not know about Cercei and Lancel and someone has to tell him. I doubt that Lancel will survive this season, so will he ever know?
Some minor detail: We have spent so much time in King’s Landing this season… why not use some of this screentime to give Kevan some character development? Everytime he is shown, he just stands up against Cercei like he hates her. Book!Kevan actually likes his niece, but he tries to keep her away from ruling for the sake of the realm since he sees her incompetence and tries to correct all the mistakes she made. Kevan is such an interesting character and there could have been plenty of good scenes with him and Cercei (more than just the confrontations), Jaime (taking over Genna Lannisters part from the books and reminding him, that Tyrion is more Tywin’s son like he is), his son Lancel (trying to convince him to become a Lannister again) and Tommen/the Small Councel (discussing the Sparrow movement, the Dorne problem, the results of Mace’s trip to the Iron Bank, the Riverrun situation, Roose Bolton’s death, the upcoming battle in the North…). We never see him rule or giving advice and we never see him as part of the Lannister family. His character (like Pycelle’s) is portrayed simply as an antagonist to Cercei. I’m really curious who will be responsible for his death in the show: Cercei (via Qyburn’s little birds or FrankenMountain) or Varys.
Joffery’s Cunt,
You are seeing a minor break in the fandom.
Back in 2006, after AFFC was released, it was very much the same, only 10 times bigger and worse.
Seeing that they are adapting the 2 books most criticized and the books that split the fandom, I was fully expecting this to be honest.
Except for the acting chops of Lena and Nikolaj, and a few others, the show has now officially jumped the shark. The writing is now so bad, characters are completely doing things out of character, for no particular reason, it’s a jumbled up mess.
I don’t see how anyone could like the endgame of the Arya plot line. First she’s all stealth, darkness and hiding, next she’s undisguised, broad daylight, throwing money around, unarmed, wistfully gazing off a bridge. And then it just turns into a video game, 10% re-gen amulet, no sepsis from a several gut wounds, and I can run and jump with sliced up abdominal muscles, no problem!
I can suspend my disbelief for dragons and weir wood visions, I’ve been a sci-if and fantasy geek for 50 years, but save a few scenes, this episode was extremely disappointing. I’ve read all the books of the series, and I think they are top tier fantasy. Even the last two are enjoyable with decent writing, though Tryion’s journey goes on a bit. But the show has lost me with this mess.
I am not even particularly looking forward to next week, Bastardbowl or not. I no longer care about the story or characters like I did, it’s all becoming a video game.
BranTheBlessed,
she didnt “peel” off the waifs face…..she sliced it off with needle….why do u think there was so much blood all over the place?
Lindamon,
I liked the conclusion. It happened just how I imagined and hoped it will.
TheKingWhoCares,
One possible outcome I can see for the BwB is that they come across a girl who has recently decided that she is definitely not no one, who has landed in Westeros and has Walder Frey on her kill list! The members of the BwB and the Hound all have a prior connection with her and they may decide to help her shorten her list.
I have no idea if this will happen, but I would like it to.
dragonbringer,
I have one question for you.As you sad this episode with her two second appereance dany fullfills her quota of being in eight episodes and we can also agree that the episode five and six scenes could have been in the same episode.Why do you think that is?Maybe it is a clause in her contract that she can’t be in less than eight episodes I wonder if all five of the A-tie actors have it?
jymion,
Yeah, it’s clearly a ”botched job”, she didn’t do it properly. The face looks quite bad, compared to the others.
Geralt of Rivia,
Or Sansa could have taken the Vale army from the beginning and Jon, Davos, and Tormund wouldn’t be in this situation. She was the naive one by not telling her general all the information he needs before heading to war. Ramsay isn’t going to wait for them to gather all their armies, and Jon doesn’t have the resources and supplies to plan a siege or wait around at camp. They have to attack.
Jenny,
Without a doubt, most actors have some version of this clause.
Alfie Allen, I believe, had something similar in S3 with his torture scenes.
Worst episode of the season for me. It wasn’t terrible, just very forgettable and at this stage one would expect something better (either action or intrigue wise). I did enjoy King’s Landing/Hound and most of Riverrun (Blackfish’ death should have been shown). Mereen is what happens when the show just paces along too quickly (skipping too many milestones), quite terrible. That said…Arya’s story was the real terrible part for me. Even leaving some things to movie magic, it was just strangely shot and that ending was beyond weird (I mean, they’re not letting her go like that right?). Best part about that storyline was Lady Crane’s opening…in fact that opening might have been one of the best parts of the episode sadly.
Anyway, the finale has a lot to make up for (assuming next week will be Jon/Ramsay battle, which should be good)…
dragonbringer,
I really don’t know how they are going to fit all that into the last episode. I think I read it is about 69 minutes long so yeah I guess it’s possible. No wall coming down this season I take it then. I don’t understand the pointless filler scenes that are going on so late in the season. They should have instead made time for Dany to react upon her return instead of just 5 sec. staring at everyone.
Mihnea,
My guess is you like video games as well. No problem, to each their own but it’s still terrible writing. It’s fine to have Arya end up where she was, I have no problem with her leaving the FM and returning to Westeros, it’s the way they got there.
I hope Cersei’s bonfire is good. You know it’s happening.
I want her to find out the truth about Joffrey’s death lol.
Mihnea,
Yeah that makes quite a lot of sense I suppose
Flayed Potatoes,
I assume Sansa will tell Jon about the Vale army after she receives the raven from Brienne telling her of BF’s refusal. What I would really like is for them to resolve this complication, without either of them looking like an idiot. Is that possible?
re: The Small Council
ghost of winterfell,
Probably not. The show is determined to have a Littlefinger redemption by making him rescue Sansa, and for that to happen Jon and Sansa’s characters need to look like incompetent morons and regress to their season 1 selves. I’m not keeping my hopes up lmao.
Jenny,
Well lots of actors do that but I don’t know really for emilia…
I mean will actors go for more screentime or for more eipodes ..is that 10 seconds enough. .
Why can’t they write more scenes there is obviously lots of story and details of dany that has not been touched in the show
Take tyrion for example..peter dinklage not only appears in maximum episode but seems to be getting more screentime in an episode as well..
Or take Maisie even though she appears in 6 episodes she gets maximum screentime ..
Just see the YouTube videos where they have every plotline seperately you will get an idea about how much screentime each character and plotline gets .
Every character seems to get 4 to 5 mins of screentime even in normal scenes wherr dany’s scenes only where 3 mins..
I am waiting for season to end and when we get the list of character screentime..
And iam sure dany will be 6 the or seventh place ..
Lindamon,
Why do you people always have to throw insults, when someone happens to disagree with them?
Why if I happen to like this scene, mean I like ”terrible writing” or Transformers, video games…etc.
Yes I like video games, I still play them even if I’m 32, is there something wrong with this? I play mainly RPG, because I love stories. Games like Witcher, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Dishonored present, in my opinion, a story that can easly match any movie and/or book.
Why must the first conclusion be that I must ”like bad writing” or that perhaps I’m not smart enough to realize how bad it was. Or as someone said in this thread, ”that I’m in denial”, no I’m not, I simply liked it. I think the last 2 books where horrible written and completely ruined the story, I still have complaints about both Show and books on this, but if I disliked them and he liked them, does it mean he is in denial? No, it means people simply have different tastes.
Some people should really get of their high-horse, and just realize that some people like different things. I strongly disliked the new SW movie for example, but that doesn’t mean it was badly written, it means I simply didn’t enjoy it.
Corbyn Stark,
I should have just done this…..
Tycho Nestoris,
we have no idea what the date was when the hound met beric and thoras …(westeros time)….it coulda been weeks before briene even got to rr….and briene was sent to get the tully army…so there must have been time for the tully army to get to winterfell……..i want jon snow to have a massive audience of influential ppl for his big speech in episode ten….i want them there…helping…berics bro’s could be in the thousands. He needs a lot of ppl that have a brain present when he gives everyone the “big threat” speech that none of them know about…and takes off his shirt at the finale
1. I knew those guys couldn’t be the real BwB.
I’m surprised the internet didn’t leak the reappearance of Beric Dondarrion, since it did leak Thoros of Myr’s.
2. Arya scenes with Lady Crane help us remember that Arya is not a psychopath that only thinks of murder and revenge. But her whole storyline this season is confusing. So you only need to kill a Faceless Man to become “no one”?
3. Meereen: Those were the worst jokes I’ve heard in my life.
4. Riverlands: This was kind of a mixed bag for me.
I was afraid they were going to have the Blackfish leave Riverrun to help Sansa. I was so glad when Brynden actually acted in character. But if you’re going to kill the fucking Blackfish, AT LEAST SHOW US HIS FUCKING LAST STAND.
The Jaime-Edmure part was amazing, though I don’t quite like Jaime’s motivation here.
It’s quite sad that Jaime sacrificed his reputation to rise up against a tyrant, and now he’s cementing and legitimizing another tyrannical regime. I guess some knights are dark and full of terrors.
Mihnea,
He won’t for me either. Just because The Riders of Littlefinger arrive at the battle, doesn’t mean I’ll support him.
Knowing LF he’ll probably postpone his fate for a bit, since Jon and Sansa don’t know he betrayed Ned.
Tywin of the Hill,
Eh, I thought GW joke was funny, I actually laughed.
Flayed Potatoes,
He’ll get what’s coming for him sooner or later, don’t worry.
Tywin of the Hill,
Jamie was motivated by not having to kill any one and showing lady B he is an honorable man – unlike his mad arse sister. I think it worked well. Showing BF die would have undone that.
Underwhelming. First, the Mountain only got to kill a single random sparrow (awesome Scorpion-style kill, though). Then, the Blackfish dies off-screen. Then, the much-hated Waif dies off-screen too, after we realize Arya was deliberately acting like a fool in the previous episode. WTF?
There were good scenes, anyway. Especially between Jaime, Brienne and Edmure. The Hound / BwB section was also really cool. I did like Braavos chase and the final scene.
And please, stop making those awkward conversations involving Tyrion. He has always been my favorite character, but these are plainly cringeworthy.
That said, I couldn’t be more excited for next episode. What a preview!
I’ll take solace in the fact that I don’t need to trash this episode, because everyone else is doing it for me. After three weeks that I really enjoyed, wtf was that?
Rather than my normal nitpicking, I’ll just list the not sucky parts
1: The first half of the Jaime/Edmure conversation, before the former went full evil, and the latter pissed his pants
2: The Hound
jennyofoldstones,
Well said.
I loved the scene between Edmure and Jaime. Both actors played it perfectly. Clearly, it was reminiscent of the scene between Jaime and Catelyn. The words “Family, Duty, Honor” can mean different things to different people.
Jaime constantly disappoints me. I want him to be a better man…the man that I think he should be. But that’s just not who he is. Brienne may be the only person that reminds him of his humanity and makes him want to be that better man. He cannot be Tywin with a conscience.
Cersei, on the other hand, continues to be magnificently evil. I can’t wait to see the hell that she unleashes. I’ve enjoyed the slow burn (no pun intended) that is the KL story line this season. They are all underestimating the Mad Queen.
I’m thrilled that Beric and Thoros have returned. I love Richard Dormer’s voice. And I love that they – along with the Hound – will be hunting White Walkers. I’m not sure what role they have to in the “wars to come” but I’ll play along.
Tyrion’s drinking game was the weak point in this episode. Felt like it went on forever.
I’m still troubled by Arya and the HoBW. Now that she is now headed home where she needs to be, I can move on from it.
Mihnea,
I am with you. How is playing 2/3 hours of video games any different from watching 2/3 hours of TV. Hell most gaming experiences today are better.
Mihnea,
Nobody insulted you.
And nobody said it was badly written because people didn’t like it. It’s the other way around. People didn’t like it because it was badly written.
I’m not sure why you want to pretend that nothing qualifies as bad writing except GRRM’s books.
Redxgod,
Thank you.
But the Hound does, and the cold winds are blowing.
Markus Stark,
I must like video games, I must enjoy ”terrible writing”, he clearly meant it as a insult.
I just said that if think they are badly written doesn’t mean……Of fuck it.
Mate, I pray you are a bit more respectful then Chad.
I politely ask you not to speak to me/about me anymore, I will do the same. Just please, both of us will have a better time then.
The complaints about how the jokes in meereen is bad or cringe worthy is classic example of how people don’t get what the show is actually trying to showand writing ..
Two things : ..
People were thrashing sansa before that she will be the reason for the deaths of northmen and place Jon in an deadly position because she is not telling Jon about LF and vale …
And iam wondering how many will do the same on Jon if sansa did tell Jon about LF and Jon didn’t wait ..
The whole LSh being dropped from the show ..I remember the arguments how LSH will ruin Jon’s resurrection..
But on the flip side we have Berric who got resurrected not once but 7 times ..
7 fucking times !!!!! There you have it AAr TPTWP and ASong of ice and fire
get HYPe ..
Corbyn Stark,
He’s just sharing his opinion. I could also tell you nobody gives a shit about your opinion, but that would be utterly stupid given that the point of a comment section is to share opinions and discuss.
Maybe you disagree with Lindamon, but the fact is he has every right to share his opinion. If you don’t like it, either disagree politely or ignore him. Not sure why you assume anyone would care about your opinion more than his.
None of our opinions matter, but we discuss them, because we like the show and the entire purpose of a fan site is discussion. You don’t like that, you’re free to say your piece and leave.
This and the other comments are for any real book reader that wonders why we can’t have Jaime’s book arc.
It’s hard for people to understand complex characters, they want it black and white.
It doesn’t matter what GRRM says, what D & D say, what the director say, what the actors say….
Anyone can help me with what was the screentime for blackwater and watchers on the wall.
dragonbringer,
I remember blackwater actually being quite short. Might be wrong though.
Chad Brick,
I know. I’m waiting for him to head North.
Me too!! 🙂 Now I’m really excited to see what happens next for Ayra “I’m going home” Stark. Yay!!!
Mihnea,
I’ll speak about you if I want to. You have no business telling people what they can or cannot say. You’re the one disrespecting people, since you think you have the right to give others orders about what they are allowed to discuss.
I’ll speak about whatever topic I want, just as you may do.
You blatantly lied, when you claimed you had been insulted. If I want to call you out on that, I will. If you want to ignore me, fine. If you want to respond, fine.
I don’t care. I’m here to give my opinion and discuss the show, and I’m not going to let an arrogant guy like you dictate what I may or may not comment on.
If you can’t deal with disagreement, or with people calling you out on your nonsense, that’s your problem.
You do not have veto power over who responds to your posts, here or anywhere on the internet. That’s not how discussion threads work, nor should it be, lest they become echo chambers.
And yes, we all know you can count. I’ll save you the bother of typing “9”.
dragonbringer,
According to imdb…
Blackwater: 55 minutes
Watchers on the Wall: 51 minutes
Halfman,
Do you like video games?
You should feel bad for liking it, just so you know and it means you are in denial if you don’t think this is bad writing. 🙂
I don’t think the FM plot is done at all. Also, I’m not really to pissed about Jaqen let her walk out. He’s always had a soft spot for her for some reason, whether or not you agree with that or not is your own opinion but I don’t think it was out of character for him.
Also I thought I remember reading an interview where the actor who plays Jaqen talks about why Jaqen was in the black cells in the first place. I think that’s the bigger mystery here, which is why I don’t think we’re done with the FM.
Having said that, Arya being healed very quickly (I’m one of those who doesn’t get annoyed with passage of time and they’ve made a point to never tell us how much time has passed), who knows if it was one night or a week passed. Either way I don’t think she would be able to run like that after get stabbed twice. I disagree with everyone who said she ran blindly around, she clearly led the Waif to that room on purpose, hence the looking weak then staring up and cutting the candle out. And the fight scene, in the dark? What were you expecting? Just noises. No way they show that in a satisfying way on TV.
Also, let’s remember that probably 90% of the people who watch this show don’t read all the rumors, spoilers and such. I’ve already watched a few reviews and listened to podcasts and
Those reviewers didn’t even guess the Cersei/wildfire theory right away or even at all. We have more knowledge from rumors and book theories so it may be obvious for us but not for the majority of people. Just because you know what’s coming doesn’t mean it’s bad writing, it’s not the writers fault you’re looking up spoilers/catch hints more quickly than others.
Don’t get the hate for Dany being back already. She can fly on a god damn dragon. Pretty sure she can get there quicker than on foot. I would have like more payoff, but I’m expecting to get that at the start of next episode. Also, she has a ton of soilders yes, but I don’t think she has any archers. They go on the beach, those ships slaughter and they have none to fire when those ships actually land, so I understand greyworm saying the should protect the pyramid.
Having defended some common hates for this episode, I think this was eqsily the weakest episode of the season. But you can’t just look at this close minded. At least think a little bit about each situation. I think there are clear explanations, and this show is about payoff and sadly they stretch some things out too far. They’ve written certain characters in certain ways and just because they go against what you think doesn’t make it bad writing (looking at Jaqen), it just makes it bad in your opinion.
Leaving aside the reservations about events prior to Arya’s Assassins Creed escape and her injuries, I actually really enjoyed it the sequence. I definitely got that Arya was genuinely afraid for her life and the implacable resolve of the Waif. Any concerns over realism became secondary to the fact that it was just bloody good fun to watch! So from that aspect it worked for me, even though it was desperately unlikely Arya would die.
Congrats and big love to both Maisie and Faye (and the stunt doubles) for their work on it and for the whole season in bringing this bitter rivalry to its climax. Looking forward to this weeks Curtain Call…
I think that what we may have seen here is although Arya is a tough little soul she has been dependent in the past on the protection of fighters to keep her from serious harm (Yoren, Jaqen, The Hound and Brienne if she’d accepted it), even if she wouldn’t admit it. While she may still have that anyway, who knows, she has finally defeated an enemy on her own – not with benefit of total surprise a la Trant but a prepared and alert opponent ready to to kill her in melee.
The show has done a pretty good job up until now in showing that no matter her bravery, she just can’t go toe-to-toe with bigger and more experienced fighters and how vulnerable she really is. Of course the progression has taken a long time, it would be ridiculous to expect otherwise for a physically small teenage girl to transform like this in 2 – 3 episodes.
I really look forward to seeing where the story takes a much more grown up Arya now.
Chad Brick,
11 actually Chad.
Markus Stark,
Al right, might have formulated this wrong. I was hurrying because of work.
Better said, might you politely not REPLY to me? Is this better?
Chad Brick,
I honestly don’t know why people like him don’t just leave. They’re obviously not interested in any type of discussion or debate, all they want is to read from people who agree with them. They just want to repeat over and over that the show is perfect, better than the books, AFFC and ADWD are shit, everything in the show matches their wildest dreams, and anyone who disagrees is a hater.
Blatant lies are commonplace from these people, as are orders directed at fellow members about what can or cannot be discussed. It’s ridiculous.
I am confused by the Riverrun arc. Unless its about getting BwB up north? Are they going to be such huge players in whats going to happen? The Freys look like they are going to survive the season still in control. Was it just to get Jamie out of KL? Very confusing arc!
Mihnea,
Go then, leave for work. Don’t let me keep you.
Believe me, I have no great desire to reply to you. However, if you say something that I’m interested in replying to, I will do so.
How you handle that is your problem.
Honestly, I’m fine with the blackfish dying offscreen. It is bad enough that he came back just to die, I rather not see him getting cornered by the freys soldiers or his own men.
This is much like osha’s death (and probably how rickon’s death it’s gonna be). They’re showing quick death scenes or not showing at all. I’m actually relieved that it’s going down this way. I wouldn’t be able to watch rickon and osha, for instance, being tortured throughout the season, as much as I’d be even more upset to see a legend like the blackfish dying at the hands of people responsible for the red wedding. But that’s just me.
Arya being truly arya was a bit of a let down, though. I thought that was some sort of jaqen plan, but I loved the final scene. The Waif’s self-confidence and envy was her downfall.
Oh, and the Meereen scenes…
I get that D&D love Peter Dinklage, but most of Tyrion’s scenes this season were completely unnecessary and a waste of screentime. It’s a shame to screw such a good character with fillers scenes, especially when those scenes are so boring and cringy.
Yeah, I worry about next week too. I am sure it will be a spectacle and fun to watch on that level, but I will be disappointed if it is nothing more than Team Stark wins, Dany wins (with an appropriately few Heroic Sacrifices). The afterglow of Hold-the-Door is wearing off. We need a plot-twist miracle, and quick.
(Alas, I cannot watch next week due to travel. I won’t be able to see E9 until hours before I watch E10, actually…sniff).
Markus Stark,
Just like you do the other way around?
And who is lying now… I had plenty of polite debates and discussions with many people, most of the times we disagreed, many times profoundly, but they where polite and didn’t ask me if I play video games, or if I liked transformers, as others did. They also didn’t say I was in denial just because it happened that we disagreed.
Flayed Potatoes,
thank you that means only 10 mins or 5 mins that any other storyline get if they make in the episode ..
In that case I prefer it just be only north..
Mihnea,
I too remembered blackwater was short but seems watchers on the wall is short according to ImDb..
Speaking of IMDb made a mistake of seeing the board and a topic there was made me sick ..
dragonbringer,
I think I was wrong, WOTW was the short one.
hmm, what topic?
Agreed. The problem I find with D&D is their tendency to over-do stuff, just a tad bit. The characterizations, the dialogues, the suspense and drama, the cliffhangers, even the attempts at making jokes… I get that this is what usually amps up viewership and ratings but it can sometimes make the viewer feel silly.
When a lot of people are critical of an episode (which they have every right to be) I honestly don’t enjoy reading the comments. I come here because I enjoy the discussions that take place, but I just don’t enjoy constant bitching and whining (even though I do agree with some of it). There are a lot of other more enjoyable things that I could do, rather than be depressed reading some of the stuff here. People have the right to make the comments, and I have the right to not read them.
Hopefully the episode next week is spectacular, and people are more enamoured by it, but honestly this site is more more enjoyable in the off-season. Unfortunately I don’t enjoy threads like this, so i’m not going to argue with anyone I’m just going to check-out early.
I’ve never watched a video game in my life lol. I liked it and I must be in denial then as I don’t think it’s bad writing ?
I loved the way Ayra had made a complete hatchet job of removing the Waif’s face. “There you go, you said a face had to be added to the wall, so here’s one for you. Obligation fulfilled. Now if you don’t mind, I’m off home”
And Jaq’en accedes.
Happy days. Whether other people liked it or not 🙂
Missing in Action today… Anguy! Where is my favorite bowman? Don’t tell me he was recast and that bowman P*#sy was actually Anguy?
Halfman,
It appears you are still in denial.
All joking aside, I agree, I really liked that moment, perhaps because I never believed she will be a FM and expected this.
Corbyn Stark,
What a lovely response.
I wonder, why didn’t you just type it out instead of linking to a meme ?
Too much of a coward ? After all, you must know that your comment blatantly violates the rules of this site, just like you must know it’s a completely unwarranted insult.
It’s a pity that the moderators let this fan community be polluted by toxic and immature little children like you.
Really? I didn’t care much for book Sansa tbh. That whole thing with Alayne made for bland reading. Arya’s always been more interesting, IMO.
Knight of the Walkers,
Same, will try some podcasts and reviews and sense the general ”feel”, so far it seems it’s ”mostly good”, Of course this can easly be the wrong conclusion, I do not watch podcasts with only book-readers nor read book-reader reviews.
Mihnea,
Well that actually reminded me about the backlash that ending with Jon got and how not having stannis arrive was a mistake when there was 10 mins still left ..
A topic about Emilia and Sophie ..I will leave at that ..fortunately there was no reply when I saw that one .
Well if this was the end of the story of The House of Black & White this season, then I gotta say it was horribly sloppy & made little sense to me. From the first trailer for season 6 with the House of faces,& the way they kept banging on about it,I guess I was misled to believe that there was a grand arc hidden here somewhere & it will somehow fit a greater purpose. But this whole story had gaping plotholes the size of Titan of Braavos. Are we supposed to believe that the Waif’s pointed vendetta, Arya’s underachieved quest to become No one & her self actualization were somehow a part of Jaqen’s endgame all along ?? If so then I gotta say the writing was a bit trite & less than mediocre. It’s getting really hard to care for storylines that don’t involve the North. And by the looks of it even Arya walked off her lackluster plotline at the end.
Mihnea,
That’s not why I said you were in denial.
I didn’t realize that saying you like video games is an insult to you, and the person who said it was very polite.
You have a very broad definition of the word “insult”.
I think someone could do a shot-for-shot mashup of the Waif running after Arya, and the quicksilver cop from Terminator 2. The similarity was uncanny.
Few comments on Arya and Jaime. I actually am not disappointed with Arya’s arc, now that I see where it has taken her. With all that has happened to her, and the way she was forced to act as somebody else for so long, she has now regained her true identity perhaps more strongly than most people consciously ever will. Perhaps she needs that determination and sense of who she is in the trials to come..
Secondly Jaime. I think this episode was well written for him and well acted. He is just back from KL where he rekindled his relationship with Cercei, and that is fresh on his mind, hence many of the vile comments he makes to Edmure. But when he talks about doing anything for love, is he really talking about (just) Cercei anymore? He goes to Edmure straight after he realizes that he will have to fight against Brienne if they don’t find a way to solve the conflict without a battle. Is that playing in his mind when he pulls all the stops with Edmure? He is trying to play the role of the man he was in season 1, but I don’t think he is that man anymore.
As I did although I was concerned she’d be forever looking her shoulder and the FM would catch and kill her eventually. Now I don’t see that happening and as she is one of my favourite characters, I’m very pleased to see it. ?
Blood in the house of B&W? You saying Arya carried over Waif’s body all the way there? Makes it even more ridiculous. Anyway that doesn’t relate to how its believable that a bleeding Arya can sit and carve out Waif’s skin. She must have bucketloads of blood in her tiny body lol
Blackfish not escaping aside
I did enjoy seeing the RL and siege of Riverrun, one wonders whether this content was included instead of Dornish characters as they could have easily done without it
Glad to see the BwB too, tbh I didn’t expect to see them again after they were no longer on Arya’s list
Am quite curious to see what Beric does actually, at the very least give Anguy a whole heap of arrows with Dragonglass heads and there will be many a dead White Walker
Well done to the actress playing the Waif, in terms of the role given to her, really bought the whole English schoolgirls fight since their first scenes together and as a viewer you really believed the animosity, so looking forward to her curtain call
BranTheBlessed,
He didn’t say that….
I have to say, thank god for Penny Dreadful to pick me up after Thrones this year, or I would be quite depressed… This season has been average at best, started of “strong” and has petered out ever since.
childoftheforrest,
Sure did but did you catch the line when the Hound said to the crossbowman that tougher girls then him have tried to kill him? I think he was referring to Arya
Mihnea,
Wow. I did not mean it as an insult. Sorry if you took it that way. I did not express myself well enough I guess. People sure are touchy.
So compare the character and plot build up and video game-like Arya story line to the “conflict of the heart” storyline of Jaime and Brienne.
Which one has substance and continuity, and makes you care about the characters, and what happens to them, was excellently written and acted – and which one is just a video game, shallow and non-consistent? I like Maise Williams, and thick she does a great job with bad material, btw.
I like video games as well, so no insult was meant, but they have their place, and GoT used to be good storytelling and not a video game.
Is that more clear and less insulting?
Lindamon,
I liked both, and didn’t thought Arya’s story was ”shallow”.
Mihnea,
As I said in my first post, different tastes. No problem. I made my case on why I thought it was bad, and require no one else at all to agree with me.
Just wanted to clear up the insult part. None was meant.
Overall I did not like this episode that much. From the teasing and build-up there were several disappointing things:
Cercei “choosing violence”: This line was hyped since the first trailer came out and the seemingly big confrontation resulted in the death of only one unnamed sparrow with no consequences at all.
The Blackfish’s death: It isn’t out of character for him to choose not to run away again and to die in his home, so I’m not really angry about this, but it was a stupid and disappointing decision nonetheless. Why die fighting for a lost cause, when there is a family member desperately asking for your help? From all the build-up in the last episodes, I really got the impression that the Blackfish holding Riverrun is an important plotpoint. Of course, I expected Jaime to lift the siege, but I always thought the Blackfish would manage to escape and join Brienne to help Sansa. Furthermore, they kind of butchered his relationship with Edmure. There were no words spoken between the two of them and the last long stare, when Edmure entered the castle made it seem like he was mad at him. Note that in the books it is Edmure who helps the Blackfish escape from Riverrun and he seems to be very proud of his uncle.
Arya wore her plot armor his episode. Recovering from several stab wounds in the gut in only one night to a point where you can run and jump around the city… Also, they totally screwed us with the promo picture that made it look like Syrio Forell might come to Arya’s help. I had to laugh when I saw the scene where it was taken from and the guy behind the Waif turned out to be some random Braavosi extra after all the hype 😀
Meereen… please, no more scenes with Tyrion trying to get Grey Worm and Missandei drunk. We already had that one awkward scene in one of the earlier episodes and it is just a waste of screentime. I mean where is the point with scenes like that? They don’t move the story forward, there is no character development… I guess it is supposed to be funny, but it just doesn’t work for me.
But I’m glad to have Beric and Thoros back. From the last episode I got the impression that they were going to turn the Brotherhood Without Banners into a bunch of bloodthirsty bandits with no sense for justice at all (which would have been “character” assassination, even with LSH as their leader), but now it makes sense: Some of them have gone rogue (basically a show stand-in for the Brave Companions) and they are executed for it by the “real” BwB.
KevLS,
Well, Jon & Co. don’t know that, they burn dead bodies all the time, might as well string her up to demoralize the opposing side.
Then again, Jon & Co don’t even know who Osha is, so….
Lindamon,
Well, sorry if I jumped a bit. Had some nasty ”discussions” on other places.
And a common, attack/insult was something very similar with what you said with the video games. When ever I stated why I liked some scene, the answer would be something liked this, ”I bet you also like transformers”…etc.
I don’t mind that we won’t see Lady Stoneheart in the show, but I’m very curious were they are going from here, especially with Beric’s character. Will he give a “last kiss” to some other character, maybe the dead Blackfish? What will the BwB do if Beric stays their leader? Will they run into Brienne and Pod? In this case I doubt that they would try to hang them. I mean, yes, they made a point of Brienne still carrying a Lannister sword, but without LSH there is no BwB vengeance campaign against the Freys and Lannisters and even if Beric doubts Brienne’s good intentions, he would challenge her in a trial-by-combat first… maybe against the Hound? 😀 Also, the Red Wedding 2.0 theory does not feel right anymore, if the Blackfish is dead, LSH does not appear and the BwB obviously has no intention to avenge the Starks.
The only fan theory that became more plausible after this episode is the “Mad Queen theory”. With no trial-by-combat possible, I think Cercei will find a more radical way to escape her holy trial. So yeah, maybe Qyburn found the Mad Kings wildfire storages and she will order him to “Burn ‘em all” (or at least to burn down the Sept of Baelor). The only question is: Will Jaime make it back to KL in time to find out what she is planning and become a Queenslayer? At some point there must be a quarrel between the two of them. Jaime still does not know about Cercei and Lancel and someone has to tell him. I doubt that Lancel will survive this season, so will he ever know?
Some minor detail: We have spent so much time in King’s Landing this season… why not use some of this screentime to give Kevan some character development? Everytime he is shown, he just stands up against Cercei like he hates her. Book!Kevan actually likes his niece, but he tries to keep her away from ruling for the sake of the realm since he sees her incompetence and tries to correct all the mistakes she made. Kevan is such an interesting character and there could have been plenty of good scenes with him and Cercei (more than just the confrontations), Jaime (taking over Genna Lannisters part from the books and reminding him, that Tyrion is more Tywin’s son like he is), his son Lancel (trying to convince him to become a Lannister again) and Tommen/the Small Councel (discussing the Sparrow movement, the Dorne problem, the results of Mace’s trip to the Iron Bank, the Riverrun situation, Roose Bolton’s death, the upcoming battle in the North…). We never see him rule or giving advice and we never see him as part of the Lannister family. His character (like Pycelle’s) is portrayed simply as an antagonist to Cercei. I’m really curious who will be responsible for his death in the show: Cercei (via Qyburn’s little birds or FrankenMountain) or Varys.
Knight of the Walkers Watching the inside the episode stuff I realized that everything that they were saying was what I was thinking while watching the scenes.It all made sense to me.But then I came here and everybody was up in arms and nobody got what they were trying to do.I think most of it comes from unmet expectations or a need for absolute medical realism I guess lol.I love this site cause it’s the most positive place about the show I know but it’s hard to get through during the on season.My favourite tv show ever it’s only on for two month a year and I don’t want to spend them being annoyed at people.Reminds me of last year when after episode six I checked out for like two months lol
I actually liked KL. I think some took Cersei’s ”I choose violence” too literally expecting a massacre. For me, it was more of a subtle nod to her looming trial. Cersei unleashes Mountain, looks ever so pleased when he rips apart-literally-his challenger, sending a message to the High Sparrow. Immediately the HS responds, gets Tommen to ban trial by combat, effectively saying ”No Cersei, you can’t choose violence” and the smug smile washes off Cersei’s face.
It was a well worked scene, IMO.
I only saw the episode once, but I really disagree that it was a low-point episode. I think the off screen fight in the dark was on point. The weird bit for me was that Arya was able to do it all while wounded and that Jaquen just accepted it. But it still doesn’t bother me that much.
I also felt like the Blackfish’s off-screen death was appropriate. He’s a third tier character, a noble man (not just a nobleman) and its reflective of this characterization for him to die defending his home off screen. I felt like it was a good way for him to go. As a side note, and yet a man of note.
And as for Tyruon and the jokes, I just loved how Missandeis personality came out after a glass of wine. It gave us a chance to see what she would look like if she weren’t so serious and we allowed to feel carefree and happy, even if only for a moment. It was sort of beautiful to see that hidden girl in her character. And i really laughed at the fly joke when Tyrion did the Stark accent.
Maybe my opinion will change on second viewing, but more and more in starting to appreciate the subjectiveness of these reviews / comments. It would be interesting to see the polls of who loved / hated the episode.
dragonmcmx,
Because it’s a city of thousands if not more which is being bombarded and itself torn by civil war
That’s only because Lady Crane died at the end. It seems it was her time to go after all.
Arya fulfilled her assignment. Another face added to the Hall, with an extra face included. So the FM were willing to let her go.
I only wish one thing since I pretty much know what will be happening in the next two episodes..
Please let dany have a scene with rhaegal and viserion and she unleashes all three dragons on the Harpies and ghiscaries…
So that we see how she has control of all her babies and heads and show us who the three headed dragon really is and embodiment of targaryens and their sigil
Say what you about dany in the books she had the brains to keep the army prepared for the backstabbing of masters when she signed the peace treaty ..
Tyrion on the other hand ..hmm he had let all the fleet burn and allowed slavery back again and couldn’t see or prepared for an attack…
Let’s see how much hate he gets.
The consequence was that Tommen banned trial by combat. And HS seems too smart to think that Cersei would make herself vulnerable again after an imperious summons, which led me to believe that this was a provocation intended to get exactly this result: HS deftly removes Cersei’s protection.
Connor,
So will the Dothraki
Demon Monkey,
Completely agree on Missandei, seeing her laugh was beautiful and then GW smiled when he saw it. I thought the scene was great!
I didn’t really like Tyrions joke but I laughed when GW tried making one!
Flora Linden,
Yeah, Crane died, and the Waif died instead of Arya.
As Jaqen said it ”it’s all the same, to the many faced god”
Don’t you think the rumor might just be that Tyrion is ruling in Mereen? They did cut directly to him after that conversation. That’s information Cersei would want to know.
I´ve seen a lot of mixed responses on the Blackfish´s demise and I thought, I´d also add my two cents to the discussion, whatever they are worth. Without further ado, I have to say that I thought the decision to let the Blackfish die without showing it was one of the best choices this overall mixed bag of an episode had to offer. That is, because it allowed for a broader, more symbolic angle than showing the actual plight of a real, dirty battle.
There will be no questions of how he went out, no “yeah, he took out a hundred and then died gloriously”, no “uhh, he only got three and then got stabbed in the back”. This death offscreen mystified the whole atmosphere of the occasion, giving it the feel of a legend more than something that actually went down. By not showing it, it truly felt larger than life instead of an artificially overblown “big moment”.
“As long as I´m standing, the war is not over” is basically what he was all about in his last days, so him not “running” like on the Red Wedding, but staying in Riverrun to die in his home while sending a strong message to all the ones he´s bitterly disappointed of (Jaime, especially Edmure, of course) was the last appropriate thing he thought was left to do. That “war” was for everything he felt was right, not what the actual world and political state dictated at the moment, showing Jaime and Edmure that instead of choosing what their honour should have told them time and time again, they chose differently for their own reasons. This may be lacking a bit of the greyness and political finesse this world of Westeros required, since Jaime and Edmure did solve the siee of Riverrun rather peacefully by choosing the way they did, but then Blackfish was no one with a hidden agenda up his sleeve. He stood up for what he thought was right, lived and died for it.
He didn´t die rather anonymously on some cold battlefield in the north, far from home, he chose to stay in the halls he grew up and live on as a legend. Does that sound declamatory and a bit solemn? Yes, it does, but for once, I do feel this is appropriate.
As such, this whole death was much more of a statement than a real “battle”. Brynden Tully died in Riverrun, died fighting, that´s what matters, not how many poor Lannister-grunts he took out. This whole “fighting for what you believe” was one of the central topics of the episode and the mystified off-screen-death was a rather nice symbol for that, I thought.
People speak about how its predictable that dany dothraki and IB will win the battle against masters ..
Dont we know LF and vale will arrive and help ever since when Lf had that talk with cersei last season..
I may not be here next episode ..so in case Say WUN WUn dies and someone complain that they have to make ramsey awesome ..
Just remind them that it took 4 lowborn NW brothers to Kill the king of giants MaG the mighty
Connor,
Violencersei,
Thanks for the ID………I had this nagging feeling that I had seen him before.
LOL
I actually thought the scenes in Braavos this week were the best scenes that we’re had out of this “Arya is in Braavos” plot we’ve had for 2 years.
The problem was that they were set up by the last 2 minutes of the previous episode of Arya stupidly walking around Braavos WITHOUT Needle and pausing in a bridge sightseeing basically waiting for the Waif to stab her…
Didn’t have a problem with Jaqen letting Arya go at the end. The Many Faced God wanted a face for the hall…and they got one.
I seriously believe this episode had a “we ran out of money in the middle of it” problem:
They cut a Blackfish fight that was obviously set up and then…not, covered with an awkward bit of dialogue at the end.
We had off-season filming spoilers of a fight here at Riverrun (archers, etc.) It was cut??
The climax of the Arya-Waif conflict that they’d built up for two seasons, the actual fight, was…not shown?!?
Danny arriving on Drogon cut for…reasons (budget?)
That said, LOVED the opening Lady Crane-as-Cersei monologue. Arguably the best bit of writing in the whole episode.
LOVED the Jamie-Brianne scene, very much spot on in character for both of them. LOVED how Jaime at the very end thinks about alerting security when he sees Brianne escaping at the end, thinks better of it, and then gives her the little farewell waive.
Pod and Bronn, always good.
I actually very much enjoyed the Hound/Brotherhood scenes.
King’s Landing scenes were good (obviously setup for “Burning with Wildfire”, no?)
Mixed bag for me… 3 out of 5 stars (this was still better than most episodes of season 5 AND season 2, at the very least.)
What an utter disappointment.
1. Tyrion strolling around Mereen alone after he left Varys. No guards? He’s a dwarf with no weapons. Two common street thugs could pull him into an alleyway and kill him in two seconds. How are there not a couple of Unsullied walking a few feet behind him at all times?
2. The drinking game scene is just completely un-understandable (is that a word?) Why was this scene in the show? Could it have been any longer? I literally cringed the entire time.
3. Like someone else said, Drogon just dropped Dany off in the middle of a war zone and took off? Did he not see the fireballs smashing into the great pyramid while he was landing on top of it?
4. Speaking of wastes of time, could the opening scene of Lady Crane’s monologue been any longer? It just kept going, and going.
5. I don’t even know how to start with Arya, that has not already been covered in these comments. If I was stabbed today, in the year 2016, the same way she was, there is a good chance that I would not live. Even with antibiotics, surgeons, ambulances, etc. She was hacked bad, fell into a cesspool of filth which was a canal, lost god knows how much blood walking across town, and an actress stitches her up and she’s fine by that night. And back to my 2016 tale, after being stitched up by a professional surgeon and given butt-loads of antibiotics and pain meds, I would still not be able to properly get out of bed and walk FOR DAYS. My wife had a c-section and was a fucking mess for a week. Arya is running, jumping, sliding under carts, rolling down 100 steps, and is still going. Who stitched up her freshly re-opened wounds before she went and saw Jaquen?
6. We wait two months for the “I choose violence” scene, and it’s one guy getting his head ripped off? I was so excited to see the Mountain draw his sword and cut guys in half, and suddenly the scene ends. Are you fucking kidding me? Colossal, colossal disappointment for me there.
7. The Hound cuts down four men with his axe and walks off. He doesn’t grab one of their swords? Then he stumbles across the Brotherhood within a matter of minutes?
8. Sorry, but I could have done without the five minute scene with Bronn and Pod talking about fucking Brienne. What was it that scene actually accomplished?
9. Was not buying Jamie pouring his heart out about Cersei to Edmure. Really?
10. Blackfish this, Blackfish that, is all we’ve heard for years now, and that’s how he goes out? No final stand? We see nothing? Very lame.
Raawr every week this season I’ve re-watched the ep the moment I awoke. I’m off today, got plenty of time and still haven’t bothered :/ I think my expectations were waaay too high lol, and now I’ve been snapped back out of the suspension of disbelief thingy 🙁 it makes me sad but also pleasantly resigned. Only 2 more to go then I can return to ma happy place (the books), and look forward to a post-book reimagining/reboot in 20 years ish. Ha! Idkwtf I’m watching anymore.
The change from trebuchet to catapult encapsulates it all somewhat. Like Cat and your sister. They don’t trust their audiences nor the source material. Are they fans of these books or what?
I hate to be negative but it isn’t by design. I want to be happy and hyped but I’m not. The rug has been pulled n now I’m on the floor.
Looking forward to the battle stuff next week but don’t care about individual characters anymore. I’ll wait for George`s carefully crafted (not botched together) work to find out what really happens.
Hope this feeling doesn’t last lol I need podcasts to soak up others thoughts and speak to irl ppl once they’ve watched it later GAH!!
Prediction – Is Varys going to Dorne to make a plea for the sand snakes to ally themselves with Dany to help her conquer Westeros?
jennyofoldstones,
they will mirror each other…one wall will go down…one wall will go up…:)
Mihnea,
I agree with you on missandei and GW ..loved how much she laughed and look GW gave her if that’s not love then I don’t know what else ..
Loved how tyrion tried to laugh at that joke but GW called how bad it is.
And tyrion not getting to tell his joke about brothel again..
The joke about starks show how they and north are viewed in south and rest of the realm..
On the other hand another thing that made me happy and feel relieved is having volantis and yunaki fleet attack.
I was scared since euron chapter that they may go that route with euron but now iam sure dany will take them as hers …
Would be nice if we get to see that ships are worked by slaves from volantis and how they switch sides to dany..but I don’t think we will get that .
I prefer to review using the breadth of the entire season rather than just the singular episode as pay-off can need time. However, after last night’s episode it is clear that:
-Arya being stabbed in the manner in which she was on the previous ep, was ridiculous. If the writing/directing team wanted to have Arya leave bloody evidence luring the Waif into her lair where Needle is hiding – they could have had Arya get cut up while being chased or at most only stabbed once (and without the damn twisting and surefire organ destruction!). A bullshit line about Lady Crane being a psycho and stabbing her boyfriends before mending them did not do the trick for me to see a wounded Arya keeping ahead of a sprinting Waif. The only thing I could’ve accepted is if she drank milk of the poppy and was slowly nursed back to health over the course of weeks (they wouldn’t have to show it, just have a line of dialogue indicating how much time had passed – preferably located at a hideaway location so it would be reasonable that the Waif wouldn’t have found her in the interim).
-Tyrion taking the chains off of Rhaegal and Viserion when he did accomplished nothing. It would have been more dramatic IMO if he hadn’t released them prior to last night’s episode and when word of the Master’s attack reached the Pyramid, Tyrion would go down and release them by himself and then Daeny would arrive, ending the episode. If he had visited them since he took the chains off in the name of learning more about them or forming more of a bond – that’s one thing but literally nothing has even been referenced about the two unchained dragons.
Bonus:
-I’m still waiting for more info on Randyll/Sam Tarly before I label it foolish of Sam to volunteer for babysitting duty and putting a price on his head to get a sword he plausibly could’ve stolen AFTER his Citadel studies were over. Cue QoT letter to Randyll asking for aid?
-Blackfish dying off screen was unfortunate but not enough for me to penalize. Who knows, maybe the actor sucked really bad at sword fighting and there had been an intended scene that was cut in the editing room? It doesn’t really change anything as we knew he was going to get chopped down fighting.
-We’re getting toward the end game of the overall story. It seems a decent proportion are going to be more and more disappointed that there aren’t as many crazy twists to keep them on their toes. The show will be even more and more predictable as it draws to a close. This isn’t to say nothing will be mysterious or that there won’t be a huge game changer but near the end of S6 complaints like “unsurprising, boo!” are slightly amusing but more irritating. Seems like a weak way to measure the quality of a show.
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Are you seriously complaining they said catapult and not trebuchet?
I kept expecting more of this episode and when it ended I held on the high moments and tried to forget the “lame” moments…Here’s what I thought….
1. Mereen was so badly done…I loved the Varys and Tyrion’s goodbye and was all set for something great to take place…for me, that was the high point of Mereen. I won’t go into the jokes, which seemed like a “I don’t know what else to do so we’ll put in this drivel.” We saw Drogon flying away when Dany appeared and I would have thought this would be a great time for him to stick around, guess I was wrong on that count.
2. I enjoyed Braavos ok right up until Arya whipped off the candle and then I was terribly disappointed. I didn’t her mind being in the dark fighting the Waif, made sense to me, but instead we get…nothing of the encounter. I would have liked to have known why she was wandering around town seemingly, like she didnt have a care in the world last week, but I guess we’ll never know what she was thinking. It was nice to see her tell Ja’quen she was Arya Stark of Winterfell and she was going home and I kind of wondered if that was where he was training her to go all along from the look on his face. Again, guess we’ll never know.
3. I actually enjoyed King’s Landing this week and I think that was mostly because I didn’t see Cersei being denied a trial by combat. She’s about to go completely off the edge!
4. I enjoyed Riverrun in all honesty. I liked the Brienne and Jaime interaction, his talk with Edmure, Bronn and Pod, the Blackfish interacting with Brienne, and then him drawing his sword ready to take on what was coming and again…NOTHING…no big end for him taking on too many Lannister’s/Frey’s…just anticlimactic “he’s dead.”
I was happy to see Sandor catch up to the BWoB and I must say I enjoyed his “meal and conversation” with Thoros and Beric. Sounds like there’s a good possibility they will all be headed North. Sandor, I think, learned from Brother Ray’s conversations with him that he was alive for a bigger purpose and I’m pretty sure he will find out what that purpose is in an upcoming episode.
I guess overall, I really enjoyed some parts while others seemed to really fall flat. This shocks me as I write it because I never will let myself complain, but this episode was not what I expected.
ArgonathofBraavos,
this
Wow, surprised to see so many are down on this episode. I actually really liked it. I loved everything in the Riverlands and Braavos. Maisie Williams is incredible. Meereen, as usual was pretty bleh, but at least we have some action and hopefully the end of that storyline coming up.
The trailer for next week really looks amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever been this excited for an episode.
I must make clear that it’s only D&D I do not like. Good project managers but terrible at laying out a story.
The cast and crew are all excellent. An amazing team.
A missed opportunity. BIGTIME 🙁
I really enjoyed the episode, and I was one of the people who got swept up in crazy Arya theory-land. Was I a little disappointed? At first, but I loved the chase scene, the fight in the dark, and the end scene in the Hall of Faces, so I was pleased with how it all turned out in the end. I also loved the Riverrun scenes. King’s Landing was good. I did miss the North, but we’ll have a lot of that next Sunday.
I think what’s happened is: several popular theories that have been talked about for years have finally been confirmed this season. Jon’s resurrection, Mel’s glamor, The Hound’s return, and the upcoming resolution to the TOJ. I know it’s gotten me all hyped up myself, and I’ve been looking way too much into things that should just be taken at face value. Not every plot needs to have an elaborate twist, and I have a feeling some intense (and probably heartbreaking) things are going to happen in the final two episodes.
With an injured Arya, who trained mostly in the dark (so she has an advantage there), she had to fight the Waif in the dark to beat her, which is why she purposely cut the candle. Can someone tell me how they would have shown her fight in the dark?
Why did the Blackfish need to die on camera? LOLs
Mihnea,
I used it as an example. A microcosm type thing. Don’t start ok I’m not in the mood. Y’all are bickering as usual and it’s dumb. Go do something ffs
*takes his own advice*
I laughed out loud when I heard that line…perfect!
ArgonathofBraavos,
I don’t understand how we could have actually seen Arya’s fight in the dark, since it was…in the dark. It makes sense to cut to the next scene, and I thought the trail of blood in the Hall of Faces an awesome way to end it.
I thought the vast majority of this episode was excellent and easily on par with the rest of the season. Nikolai was really the star of this episode, as he was marvelous in all of his scenes, especially the one with Edmure.
But there were clear missteps as well. The most glaring is the anticlimactic ending to the Arya vs. the Waif conflict. That was a confrontation that was simmering for the better part of two seasons, and although I appreciate the fact that Arya played to her strengths and outsmarted the Waif in the end, it was definitely a disappointment to not see their final fight.
The only other criticism that really sits with me a day later is the Tyrion-Missandei-Grey Worm scene. It is jarring to have a scene as relaxed and carefree as that one, and the previous one are, when they are bookended by fast paced scenes that see the plot hurtling forward. I see them as a way of inflating Dinklage’s screen time, which is unusually low this season, and not in a very compelling fashion.
But, to reiterate, I still enjoyed this episode, and next week looks to be one for the ages!
Ser Gerold Dayne,
I remember the baby part from the books, however, book Jamie is a different Jamie than the show one. And the writers seem to be uncertain how to handle his character and they are alternating back and forth which is not very plausible and simply rings false.
And it is great that Daenerys appeared finally but her appearance was lame, that is all.
I am with you on it being Rickon on one of them, but Osha got fed to the dogs and I don’t know how Glover, I think he might be cowering under his bed…lol.
ArgonathofBraavos,
There was no character illuminating dialogue during the chase either, and yet they showed it because they thought it would be exciting.
People expected the climax of Arya’s rivalry with the Waif, which also happens to be the climax of her Braavos story, to be more thrilling. That shouldn’t be so surprising, given that we’ve seen Arya and the Waif fight many times during practice. It would have made perfect narrative sense to show Arya actually succeed in killing her. They have yet to truly show what Arya has learned, or how she’s become more of a skilled killer than she already was.
As it was, there was nothing exciting or interesting in the whole sequence, aside from the chase. It was all building up to the fight, and we didn’t see it. Expecting to see the Waif’s demise on screen as the conclusion of an epic showdown between these two assassins seems quite reasonable to me.
Just my take on why some are disappointed.
Dee Stark,
The same way they used sounds on the show in season 3 to show the battle at the Fist of the First Men.
The problem is that they were hyping up this epic Waif vs. Arya fight and they didn’t show it. Just like they gave the Blackfish a great speech about him being ready to fight and die for his house and they didn’t show it.
Let’s not mention how unrealistic it is for Arya to even survive all those stab wounds and be able to jump around and run all over Braavos the next day.
Boudica,
I was thinking the same thing, the focus on the Lord of Light and the “people who have a purpose”, the great fight, this that, has been strong this season, and i find it very very interesting.
I don’t understand people. What is it you guys want from GOt? What is it you enjoy about it?? Because judging by a lot of your comments, it seems you want to see only bloodsheds, fighting, dragons and not much more.
Last night’s episode was great, it had some amazing character moments and interactions and dialogues. Yet people complain because:
-lack of Cleganebowl. Well, honestly, that whole theory was created by you and there is no one else to blame for your disappointment. Certainly not D&D. Besides, I prefer much more a Hound who joins the fight against the WW and does something that really counts instead of one who just goes to follow a stupid revenge against his brother.
-lack of LSH. I hated that character and I see no point of using her at this moment in time.
-not seeing the death of BF. Gizaaas. What is the problem with that? The guy chose to die “honorably” and stupidly, if I may add, in his own castle. He had the opportunity to do something that will count,to go help Sansa and Jon. In stead he chose his pride and chose to die for a lost cause. It was stupid and I will not mourn him. Not to say that he was willing to sacrifice all his men in the name of his stupid pride. And it was not necessary to see him dieing. Does everything has to be a constant fight for you to be satisfied? The actor said it perfectly clear. Filming the fight scene would have been a pain in the a…. He is no longer young. They would have had to spend a lot of time and effort to teach him to fight. And for what? What is the overall purpose? Just for you to be more entertained? This is like the Roman empire and its circus all over again!! More blood, more blood!! The idea got through pretty clearly without seeing the actual fight.
Sword of the Morning,
I guess she didnt think Jaquen would send for her murder, hence why she said “You sent her to kill me” or whateveer. So she didnt feel unsafe i guess last episode, and she was trying to get out of there as soon as possible
Ser Lurk of House Turnip,
Agreed.
Mista C,
Seriously? It answered a major question about their relationship. Until now, there has been a lot of speculation about whether there is anything between them or not. Bronn acted as a Greek chorus to tell us what Jaime and Brienne did not. They’re both devoted to other causes (Brienne to Sansa and Jaime to Cersei and Tommen) and can’t afford the luxury of examining their feelings.
Why not watch the episode again? It sounds like you were expecting to be hit on the head with everything. This isn’t a sitcom. Think about things a little.
Is it me or does anyone else think the whole reason to show Beric and even the BWB is to find Catelyn’s body NOW, like in the last episode. (Hence the shot showing the hound taking a piss, something washes up in the river) Beric looks to the hound, then to Thoros, then does his little incantation, she lives, he dies, The Hound has found his new master and purpose.
Seriously though, in this shows entire existence have they ever mentioned a character as much as Cat Stark for no other reason? I mean even the whole riverlands plot could have been sidestepped, and/or changed to make it more interesting if not for the sole purpose of brining in LSH in the final episode.
Plus Brienne, Pod and Jamie all being set up for next season, with a trail by combat, major death, it’s all to coincidental
Only time will tell, two episodes to go, but I’m predicting LSH shows up in the final act of the season finale.
I think Arya wanted to draw out the Waif. At the end of “Broken Man”, she waited for the Waif – or some FM – to come get her, but she didn’t show up. So she probably thought her being out in the open would attract more attention, hence the weird behavior. Unfortunately, Arya made the mistake of thinking the Waif would show up as “herself”, with the familiar face, rather than as the elderly woman. (Leading the Waif to a place where Arya kept Needle and they’d fight in the dark in “No One” probably was Arya’s original plan, she just didn’t count on getting stabbed.)
KeeperOfOaths,
There is selection bias by reviewer comments to be negative. This is why reading comments on Yelp can be depressing but then you see the actual ratings and it is either equal or better, never worse.
I imagine once the poll at the bottom becomes updated, this episode will still have a fair number of 4’s and 5’s that outnumber the 1’s and 2’s. I wish we could see the older polls for comparison’s sake in the archive but doesn’t seem to work.
Dee Stark,
I think she was just caught of guard. She was about to go home and took a moment to watch the city, the city she thought she will find answers, a purpose, something and she found none.
Or she did, perhaps, that she is Arya Stark.
I think people expected her to become a trained killer, a FM and a ”badass” assassin, I never believed these things, that is exactly why I liked the scenes.
Some believe the FM are Arya’s endgame, or a big part of it, I myself don’t believe this, I think they were simply part of her journey and that part is done. Her story, her destiny is in Westeros as Arya Stark, not No one.
I’m actually beyond glad that Arya didn’t turn into a killing machine.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yup.
The first rule of TV is “show, don’t tell”. I’m not particularly fond of an overly strict application of this rule, but the Arya vs Waif situation was a clear example of a case where the rule applied, in my opinion. Same with Blackfish, though to a lesser extent.
It’s anti-climactic to have such moments off-screen. The Blackfish being so unceremoniously done away with, despite being a memorable character, is clearly a strange choice for a show like GoT.
Knowing what next week’s episode is going to be about this episode has left me feeling oddly empty. I don’t feel that there has been a proper build up for the Battle of Bastards at all. I don’t feel or see Jon truly wanting this and Ramsay has been even more cartoonish this season than ever before.
I think it was a good episode. Had all night to think on it and sure it wasn’t one of the better ones this season or any other season for that matter. For me personally I was disappointed after the episode because I had certain hopes that didn’t materialize; LSH, Blackfish, more Northern scenes etc.
The Arya scenes were foolish no doubt. But the scene with her and Jaquen, her and Crane were good. The Jaime scenes were great. And I really enjoyed Clegane and Beric.
Hopefully Arya’s storyline will improve in my esteem with the last 2 episodes.
Darjan,
I dont get why people were expecting big things this episode.
Besides Hardhome, episodes 8 are not usually action packed. What would you have liked to see?
Arya is out of Bravos – done
the hound and the brother hood are reunited – will probably see them in episode 10 – their next move?
Dany is back in Mereen
The sole purpose of the return of the blackfish was Jamie. Jamie has quickly taken care of riverun which is what he has been saying he wants to do so now hes going to head back to KL just in time for the mad queen
Cersei is planning her big thing which we will see to close out the season
Nothing to show in the north because the battle will be next week so thatll be taken care of then
All other stories are set up for their climax in episode 10 – greyjoys, wall, bran, sam
So, what should we have seen in episode 8
Too many posts to read through. This episode was just okay.
I found Arya’s scenes good. I did not need to see/hear the fight in the dark. Seeing Jaqen following the blood trail and him finding the Waif’s face, eyes apparently stabbed out was priceless.
Wish they would have actually shown the BF going down in a fight. Edmure, you are not a trout but a spineless jellyfish.
KL – I think Lancel and Company calling on Cersei was a ruse to see how strong FrankenGregor is. Therefore not trial by combat.
Loved all of Sandor and the BwB to boot.
Mereen – where shall I begin. What a waste. It got interesting once the slavers arrived.
It is tinfoil time. I believe Euron Greyjoy burned Dany’s ships. His master plan was to kill his brother, claim the throne and take the Ironborn fleet to Mereen and offer the ships if Dany marries him. Yara/Theon threw him a curveball by taking off. It will be Yara/Theon that will show up and destroy the master’s fleet.
You can all take the foil off now.
Sorry, in my previous post I meant “Blood of My Blood” where Arya waits for the Waif – goofed in remembering.
TheRealHotPie,
Isn’t it obvious to everyone that Edmure is a decent person? Weren’t you paying attention to his conversation with Jamie? A good and decent person would not sacrifice a baby for a f-ing castle, less so if that baby is his own child. While Edmure and Edmure Jr. are still alive, the hope of someday retaking the castle lives. If Edmure doesn’t comply the Tully’s are gone for good. I know that the baby would still have lived but as a Frey and there’s nothing more terrible than that. Edmure sacrificed his uncle, true enough, but I’m guessing it is easier to sacrifice an old man who’s lived his life than an innocent baby who hasn’t.
singedbylife,
I’m with you there too. I liked everything, except for the Waif and her terminator style. But she’s bothered me for a while now, with that never-ending sneer. No offense to her, but I think she was the wrong actress for the role.
BranTheBlessed,
she closed the door, didnt think arya would cut the candle.
no plot armour. aryas advantage was to fight in the dark since she was badly injured, and the waif was still better than her ever after all the training. so its goes dark and the waif has no time to find the door handle and open the door, arya attacks, and its done. the blind training has set up for her to do this in the dark. not hard to follow.
I don’t know. Seeing the way GoT killed off Ser Selmy, a part of me is relieved Blackfish was spared such treatment.
They are not going back and forth with his character. It is just that, as far as I see, a lot of people judge things at a very superficial level. Jaime keeps declaring his love for Cercei? People immediately put the label: yes, he is evil! He is the same Jaime from season 1. Nobody seems to actually analyze the situation and the characters in depth.
You people say that he is the same season 1 Jaime and that he is evil?? Just give me the proof. Show me exactly what he has done from season 3 to the current moment to actually prove your statement? Leave his “declared love” for Cercei apart and prove to me why he is evil. Has he murdered innocent people? Has he seeked revenge at all costs? Has he betrayed somebody? What has he done?
Because as far as I see, he has done nothing more than to protect the people he cares about and to avoid.the bloodshed people seem to enjoy so much. He protected Tyrion, he rescued Tyrion, he was willing to sacrifice everyhing in order to rescue Tyrion. He protected Pod and Brienne. HE tried to keep his oath to Cat and save Sansa. He tried to protect his children and be there for them. He did not go on a murderous streak when Myrcella died; in stead he had the wisdom to understand that Trystane and Doran were not responsible and he did not seek revenge against them. He tried to protect the alliances they have and save Marge and Loras. He tried to avoid more death. Both in dorne and in the Riverrun. He was willing to let Bf and all his army go to Riverrun and help Sansa. Etc.
So exactly what has he done that makes him the “evil” season 1 Jaime??
Show Jaime is not different that book Jaime. The showrunners just decided not to have the rupture between Jaime and Cercei, for whatever reason. But everything else. All the things show Jaime has done and all the decisions he has made, are in line with bookJaime.
Blackfish dying off screen was elegant. It underscored the waste of it all, that all we get is a mention, to Jaime, that he died somewhere in that big castle. It was the opposite of glorious, and showing it would have either glorified his last stand or come across as tragic. Where Riverrun stands at the moment, since it seems an expensive excursion for the show where things seem to be reset (Brienne got nothing out of it, heads back; Jaime gets nothing out of it, heads back, I know his piece had to be moved out of KL), something significant has to happen with Brienne on her way back as well as with Sandor. Perhaps together. Even with the spoilers on the other outcome.
God I wish they’d just resisted giving Arya what was obviously a mortal wound last week just to up the drama on a show that needn’t be insecure about its dramatic heft. (Not as bad as the dumpster but still a misstep.)
Newbietothegame,
I do think Yara’s fleet will wipe out the masters’ from the rear. That would really help her with her bargaining. It pretty much has to happen that way with how the pieces are arranged on the board.
Newbietothegame,
It’s easy to call someone spineless when it’s not your child that will be catapulted into a city/ murdered. Not to mention that the Tully forces were probably doomed, anyway. Edmure is not a bad person. He just doesn’t have the stomach to sacrifice his family on principle. Perhaps that’s spineless by Westerosi standards, but it’s nothing to sneer at by ours.
Sam,
yeah thats my only quibbble with the episode also , not enough dany
MW interview
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/06/13/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-explains-why-arya-was-never-goin/
Dire Moon Moon,
OT: I love your username *almsot* as much as I love shipping Tormmund x Brienne 😛
BranTheBlessed,
What. Gloriously dying, killing 20 guys before he goes down?
Sooo, opposing Cersei is misogyny? Do you know what that word means? How do you function outside of your safe space? This show is make believe. Fucking Millenials and their buzz word, #YOLO idiocy. Get a helmet.
No, what I want is well-set up plot points that are surprising when they occur, but seem natural once you think about them, like the Hold-the-Door, the Red Wedding, the Pink Letter,
, etc.
What I do NOT want is excessive Over-the-Top Hollywood Action, plot points driven by illogical or nearly impossible behavior, or any scene whereupon I have to answer my very unsullied wife’s query of “Why did so and so do such and such?” with a “beats the hell out of me”. Ditto for my equally unsullied boss.
KeeperOfOaths,
“Does everything has to be a constant fight for you to be satisfied? ”
Yeah, pretty much. This is not Downton Abbey, you know.
JK. I thought this was a decente episode, but with several anticlimatic moments, especially regarding BF, the Waif and the Mountain.
Dee Stark,
I was hoping for more from the Arya storyline. She spent the last 2 seasons over there, it was a short ending….the scene with her and Jaquen was great though. I wasn’t around for last week’s episode so I was hoping to see Jon and Sansa this week. I’ve read the books and the Blackfish is such an epic character that I wished to see more from him last night.
Again, I was bummed out after the episode but this morning not so much. It’s just natural that for each viewer some episodes resonate better than others. Anyways this has been an odd season for me personally. Between being spoiled and in uncharted territory for the first time due to the the show advancing beyond the books, it’s been interesting to say the least.
I’m not sure how much good it will do the HoBaW to have the Waif’s face, as anyone who tries to use it will have to carry around eyedrops to keep their eyes from drying out.
Sue the Fury,
I’ll agree for blackfish but disagree about arya. A fight scene in pitch black probably wouldn’t come across great on screen. And any argument about lighting the scene so thats its dark but not so dark that we can’t see them will fall flat. The point was that she would have an advantage in perfect dark not semi-darkness. In my opinion, good choice not to show that fight. I really enjoyed this episode but I’m also admittedly quite easy to please when it omes to this series.
While everyone is debating about how they didn’t show the fight with arya and waif ..
I have a different question …
Was it necessary that arya needs to be stabbed …just say arya was absent from last episode and this episodes starts with arya hiding in actress house and waif kills actress and attacks arya ..
Did anything change from the end result what we got ..
Another question .I get that they didn’t think of including victarion and IB during season 4 so they gave the exact number of ships Victorian had as fleet darrio captured ..
But do they have to burn them in first episode when they decided to have IB go for dany ..
They have established that ships was not enough for unsullied and seconds to go over westeros in season four itself ..
Why can’t they be just been burnt down in the siege now or destroyed or captured by masters in the battle or just have them to include them part of those 1000 ships .
I only ask this because these sort of things lead only to unwanted theories and eventually lead up to disppointed ..
I have an out-of-left -tinfoil-field prediction:
Flayed Potatoes,
This a show where a witch has given birth to a shadow for murderous purposes. A show were Brienne is basically able to kill everyone in her path regardless of the odds against her. A show where Dany is able to survive intact an all consuming fire, I mean not even her hair gets burnt off. A show where someone like Little Finger is still alive despite everyone knowing he’s a treacherous weasel. Varys surviving is understandable, he did so much under the radar. Little Finger? Not so much. There are many unrealistic things about this show. Arya’s physical resilience is just one more of the many. It is a fantasy show.
Markus Stark,
Its not obvious its bad writing. Its YOUR opinion its bad writing.
We are allowed to have different opinions.
Am I the only one in millions to see that the face was not Waif’s but Arya’s. Which also accounts for the “A girl is finally on one” comment.
Go check out at 1:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPMHAV-0JMs
Flayed Potatoes,
If Jon marches even with knowing they’re coming. I rather wait few days for Vale army than going on a suicide mission because they can’t win and Jon knows it. They’re basically going against them on open field. Sansa knows how LF is dangerous and Jon is naive. She knows him beter than anyone and wants to protect Jon. She asked LF for help when realizing that Northern houses don’t want to fight for Starks.
Danny,
Arya getting stabbed has nothing to do with fantasy or shadow demons. She doesn’t even have Brienne’s training or size to use as an advantage. And the show isn’t going to have Emilia wear a bald cap (for the record, her hair burns in the books).
That’s like saying Jaime is instantly going to be an epic fighter despite losing his fighting hand.
Some things have to be within limits and realistic, especially as far as characters with no magical powers are concerned.
Jon Snow fans hate daenerys. It is known.
Dee Stark,
Your’re just in denial Dee.
“If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it’s not going to be fired, it shouldn’t be hanging there.”
— Trope Namer Anton Chekhov
Somebody should read up on the rules of a good drama.
Luka Nieto,
Love this, Luka
The biggest problem of the episode is that the quality of the scenes kept going down. The hound killing people with an axe, the mountain, Varys leaving, and Jaime’s scenes should have been part of a good episode. The Braavos story is a catastrophe of Dornic proportions, and so is Mereen. And the Blackfish just kills himself. How can anyone build a narrative and put the worst pieces a the end?
I don’t understand the Jamie complaints, BTW. I don’t think he was ever a real villain, and he’s doing his best. He threw Bran down the window for very good reasons: If he didn’t, his entire family would have been killed. Jus like killing Aerys saved thousands. No wonder he likes Brienne: He sees what he could have been, if he hadn’t been in very hard situations.
What I really wonder though is if the showrunners don’t realize that their Braavos and Mereen plots are just nonsense. Arya and Tyrion, two rather popular characters, have spent TWO SEASONS doing absolutely nothing. They haven’t even witnessed anything that so far seems important to the plot at all. No important secrets were learned at the house of black and white. Tyrion saw some dragons, and just sat there. It’s just bad storytelling: Either keep them off the screen, or have them do something!
See you are having to use your imagination to plug most of that plot . You don’t see the problem? And no plot armour? Are you serious? If she didn’t have one, she’d be dead lying at the bottom of that water body.
Eyebrows to narrow to be Arya!
Joffery’s Cunt,
yup.
Geralt of Rivia,
I’m curious to see what excuse the show is going to come up with to get him to march. Maybe Ramsay forces his hand somehow. Maybe Rickon is involved. It’s weird.
However, it’s clear they were writing with the goal to have LF and the Vale save the Starks, and for that to happen Jon and Sansa need to behave stupidly and irrationally.
Never Hug a Bolton,
They did just that, they clearly showed that Arya had a advantage of being blind.
Dee Stark,
Perhaps you should aim your last comment at the people who throw around insults the second someone doesn’t agree with them.
I have no problem with differing opinions.
But it’s not a matter of opinion here. It is obviously difficult to believe that Arya would be able to survive what she went through, especially since her wounds re-opened after her fall. Her ability to run and jump with sliced up guts and abdominal muscles is ridiculous.
Not to mention the original instance of bad writing, which occurred last episode. Arya has been training for months. She knows the Faceless Men are after her. She knows that they can be anyone. And yet she walks around in broad daylight, without Needle, and lets her guard down. In fact, she never had her guard up in the first place. She was walking around without a care in the world, and was completely taken unawares by the Waif. If the Waif was to get the upper hand, it should have been because she was a badass, not because Arya was dumb.
The mistake Arya made makes no sense, and when a character’s actions make no sense, that’s bad writing.
When a character suffers severe wounds but survives because they’re a main character, not because it made sense, that’s bad writing.
It’s not my opinion, it’s just the reality of the situation.
Tons of reviewers, fans, and commenters right here on this site said the exact same thing, so if it’s an opinion, it’s a pretty common one.
I have no problem with those who enjoyed it. You enjoyed it, good for you.
But those of us who didn’t aren’t just idiots who all randomly reacted in a strange way to a perfectly fine scene. If so many people were disappointed, perhaps it should be considered that there’s a reason for it.
You may love everything the show does, and that’s fine, but some of us are more critical, and we have a right to be.
wolfbysilverstream,
No, eyebrows are the Waif’s.
Geralt of Rivia,
We do not know if Jon even knows about the Vale army, and even if he does, under what circumstances. So why not wait until the actual episode to air before calling him naive/foolish.
Of course you are allowed your opinions, and inherently quality is a matter of taste. That being said, this episode was about as close to objectively bad as any episode of the series has been. The Arya plot was simply nonsense that ended on a whimper, which was compounded by the whimpers in King’s Landing and Riverrun.
A great Arya plot line would have involved some major twist. A merely good one would have had a nicely foreshadowed setup and a logical trap being set by Arya. A less good, but serviceable and logical plot would have involved her rescue. What we got was a mess, where it unclear what was intended on Arya’s part and what was plain stupidity on both her and the Waif’s part, magically healing wounds, an impossible chase scene which would have left a non-plot-armored human being a cripple, and a dull, cut-off climax. I cannot fathom any standards by which that kind of mess qualifies as anything other than poor.
PS: Can someone tell me why Arya assumed the Waif never had blindness/dark training? If she did, Arya was beyond screwed.
PPS: What happened yesterday is not the book plot, where if something like this does come to pass, warging will play a role.
I don’t even understand how some people are confidently asserting this ‘Arya had an advantage in the darkness’ statement.
Did the show give any insight as to who the Waif is, how long she’s been in the house of B&W, what sort of training she’s gotten, what her strengths and weaknesses are etc?
Did I miss something relating this in any episode?
BranTheBlessed,
Arya was able to stand against her while she was blind. She has a clear advantage here.
BranTheBlessed,
I disagree about that.
i didnt have to use my imagination, i knew from the beginning that we wouldnt see an actual fight between arya and the waif because it would be in the dark, only way she would have an upper hand.
BranTheBlessed,
No I had the same thought….the waif kicked the shit out of Arya early on and all of a sudden she was beaten by a heavily wounded Arya? In the dark?
There are less than 20 episodes to go before the whole series comes to an end. Think back to where the characters were early on in the last season. That’s the same length of time as we’re still getting in the entire series. What I would thus like from GoT is focus. Focus on fleshing out the stories that matter, not clinging to characters because the writers have grown fond of them.
The argument might be made that X, Y or Z will be important later on, but Benjen Stark was gone for five years and reintroducing him worked fairly well, including that brief recap of what he’d been up to. They’re both rushing main storylines and languishing in sideshows, and it makes for an troubling mix.
I would also like to follow the events as they happen. The series is deliberately keeping information from the viewers – cutting conversations, making vague allusions – to build up to Big Reveals. Show us the build-up, the scheming, the plotting! Let’s get excited about seeing it play out. They’re setting people up for disappointment; not only because the Big Reveal can never live up to the hype, but also because some of them are so obvious that seeing them on the show will be just like ticking a box, devoid of excitement, while the scenes that foreshadow the events are lessened because the characters have to dance around the really important matters.
Markus Stark,
No, i didnt say you have to like it.
I just think its your opinion that its bad writing.
Arya’s training with the FM and all that was, i think, to get her trained to fight and kill. I have always wondered why GEORGE sent her there, and what her role is in the overall story….
With regards to the events of last episode, she may have been walking around without needle because she didnt think Jaquen would come after her. As she said in this episode “You sent her to kill me”
She also was acting too proud and arrogant, which got her in trouble. All the Stark siblings were acting proud and arrogant, which worked to their disadvantage in the episode (#7).
This is how i take things,
i never said you cant be critical 🙂 all im saying is its your opinion, nothing more.
Of course we don’t see Arya’s fight, it’s in the dark!
It may be clear in your head. To claim it was clear based on show evidence is a bit reaching.
Hodor Targaryen,
There are all sorts of things that you’d think Varys – and other people of influence – would know this season which just seem to be swept under the carpet. Does Varys not know about Myrcella or is he just keeping it from Tyrion? Does no one in Westeros or Essos know about the Sandsnakes assassinations and take over of the throne of Dorne? Why hasn’t Jon or Davos or someone sent ravens warning all the major houses about the NK & WWs? In the early seasons the sky was black with ravens taking news around the kingdoms, has there been a terrible outbreak of bird flu D&D aren’t telling us about?
BranTheBlessed,
I reached this conclusion from what we saw on-screen……. I didn’t made it up..
BranTheBlessed,
Fighting blind while the waif wasnt blind. Thats all you need. Now we need to know the waifs training for it to make sense?
Flayed Potatoes,
Regardless of the show not wanting Emilia to wear a bald cap, it is still unrealistic for Daenerys to walk out intact from a fire. They chose to be unrealistic and we went along with it. I read the books and in that sense they scene is more ‘realistic’ in the source material. It is unrealistic for someone like Aero Hotah go down so easily and yet we grumbled and move along because it wasn’t the first or only unrealistic thing the show has shown. I am a woman, I love Brienne and I still think it is unrealistic for Brienne to always come out a winner from all of her fights. And yet I go along with it because it is only a minuscule part of the show. Arya getting stab in the belly should have knock her down for weeks, no one is arguing the opposite. Arya’s jump and landing would have killed or severely injured most, that is obvious. But Arya needed to survive and she needed to go back to Westeros, in the end that is all that matters. If you have ever attempted writing, fiction writing or screenplay writing you would know that as much as you try to hit realistic beats within any type of story the truth is that sometimes you just have to leave logic behind otherwise you will get stuck and your story will go nowhere. Afterall screenwriters work under horrible deadlines and they don’t always have the luxury of time or Monday morning Quaterbacking.
MissDarkside,
In the small council meeting they clearly mentioned Dorne and that Ellaria took over.
MissDarkside,
Speaking of Varys, where the hell is he going? Dorne? What do you think?
Chad Brick,
She made the assumption, and she was right 😉
Chuck,
I have long speculated he’ll go there.
To anyone who saw the preview for next week, can i just say, JON SNOW
swoooooooooooooon
hes so damn hot!
im prob gonna avoid this place after next week
such a buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz kill
hahaha
Markus Stark,
The Blackfish was an old man. He probably ran up and took a bolt to the heart. If he didn’t fight Jaime does it really even matter? I feel like since The Door they’ve held back on a lot graphics intensive scenes and kept more to the acting. Which is fine, episodes 2 through 5 were rather intense. Jon needs a big moment in this next episode. I feel he’s just been coasting along this season after being risen from the dead. Looking forward to having Arya back in Westeros where she belongs. I liked her character quite a bit before she left.
Dee Stark,
1 vs 1, Jon and Ramsey!!!
Edit: Nah, next weak will be fine. I fully expect the battle to be great. It’s this weak that’ll be annoying.
This is a horribly written show, if this show was written this badly in season 1 it would never have had a season 2. This is far worse than True Detective Season 2, heck it’s X-Men Origins: Wolverine level of bad.
The emperor has no clothes, wake up people.
I loved the episode. Lots of tension and resolution where such things are needed. Not buying your critiques. I don’t think the Black Fish is dead and I was right about the murderous marauders not really being part of the Brotherhood without Banners. This was a set up episode and everyone did their jobs, including Maisie Williams who has been amazing this season (someone get her a part in the Star Trek series ’cause she could show Daisy Ridley some moves). How serious are things? Let me put it this way. I watched the East Coast (6:00 p.m. Pacific time) showing expecting to miss the first hour of the Tony Awards. Much to my delight someone at CBS was smart enough not to start their award show until after GOT. I mean is that respect or what?
Jon looks really sad/upset standing there and looking at something. I’m worried.
Welp, calling it now. Cersei blows up Sept and half the KL with wildfire and accidentally kills Tommen with it. Jaime comes back just in time to see his love turned into the monster that he once already killed, and stabs her into stomach while green flames envelope them both.
I have been wrong before.
Mihnea,
is that what we think will happen?
Dee Stark,
The brooding, sad, what is going on in his heart, types are always so fetching. Jon knows how to wear the hero cape well. His moments of apparent self-doubt are so much more attractive than Jamie’s braggadocio. Yes, swooooon!
Danny,
Then they should have given her a superficial stab wound somewhere else, like the one Jon got at Craster’s Keep.
The show has established how easily characters can die from stab wounds. Roose and Talisa’s stabs are probably the closest to what Arya got and they died instantly. So the fact that Arya somehow makes it without much damage and is able to run, slide and jump around is ridiculous, unrealistic, and it’s bad writing.
I agree about Dany’s hair not burning off being unrealistic, but the show has at least established that she has some form of fire immunity and is a somewhat magical character. They’ve never established this with Arya. If she had impenetrable skin or something, that would have been believable. But she doesn’t.
Dee Stark,
Well Jon did say, ”thousands don’t have to die, only 1”
I thought he proposed a duel of some sorts. Now I doubt Ramsey would accept, especially that he has the advantage and numbers.
ghost of winterfell,
That reminds me, where exactly was Brienne sending that raven? Ravens can only fly between fixed locations, they don’t magically seek out the recipient wherever they are in the world.
Meereen: Unless there’s something really amazing in the next two episodes, Peter Dinklage really should not be getting an Emmy nomination this year — not because of his performance, mind you, but because the writers have giving him almost nothing interesting to do. I quite like the show giving us quieter scenes for character development, but these sorts of things feel more like a standup routine than character development. Conversely, those were some absolutely wonderful visual effects for the siege.
Braavos: Sigh. Looking back now that it’s over, Arya’s time in Braavos really was meandering and repetitive. She spent most of her time washing corpses and getting beaten with sticks, with minimal sense of the skills she was developing, in comparison to the books. And having her get punked immediately by the Waif after she leaves does little to convey her supposed new training, let alone cutting the final fight, which would only work, dramatically, if by that point we’d seen enough of Arya’s training to know she was obviously going to win, when we’d really seen the opposite. And “realism” gets thrown out the window in relation to Arya’s wounds. The whole character of the Waif was a paper-thin heel whose personality did not at all mesh with what the House of Black and White is supposed to be about. And what the hell did Jaqen mean by saying Arya was No One at the end, when everything she’d done would indicate the exact opposite? Was that just there to set up Arya’s response line? If so, I can think of a few other pronouncements that would have done it better. Let’s just get her back to Westeros now that this is over.
The Riverlands (Clegane Edition): As I’ve said in the past, Richard Dormer’s Beric Dondarrion is one of my favourite minor roles; he brings instant gravitas to his scenes. If Sandor’s going to be joining the Merry Men as a soldier for a righteous cause, I’m all for it.
The Riverlands (Riverrun Edition): A strong collection of scenes overall. Jaime’s character development, even if running behind the novels, seems finally to be showing signs of existing again. His scenes with Brienne were good, and I liked the stuff with the Tullys, other than the Blackfish dying offscreen. Could we really not cut thirty seconds off of Tyrion’s standup comedy to show him cut down a few Lannisters and then get killed?
King’s Landing: Where exactly did Cersei hear that particular rumour? Anyway, this was fine overall, though the show seems to want us to feel sad for Cersei getting shut out of high position at court and actually having to face a real trial, when I have no idea why we should do either of those things. Cersei was a disastrous ruler and has committed numerous crimes warranting death, but we’re supposed to be sad she has to stand in the ladies’ gallery and (seemingly) can’t murder her way out of prison?
Flayed Potatoes,
Thank you! We are all here because we all love the show but some people can’t think objectively….
Dee Stark,
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that last point. To me when something strains credulity to such an extent, and makes a smart character look dumb for the sake of cheap momentary drama, that’s objectively poor writing that smart shows don’t engage in. GoT is better than this. I just saw an interview with Maisie Williams where she admits the whole point of the stabbing was to make the audience think she might die.
So for the sake of giving us a scare in that one moment, they sacrificed realism and clever characterization.
But anyway, as I said, we’ll agree to disagree.
I do agree with you however on the point of the Braavos arc. Which was for Arya to learn to fight and kill. Which is why it would have been good for the climax of the story of these past two seasons of training to show us what she has learned.
She was already fairly good at killing before. I am currently left wondering if she has truly learned anything at all in Braavos, aside from how to move in the dark (she certainly hasn’t learned vigilance). If that’s the takeaway, nothing will convince me that that isn’t slightly underwhelming, to say the least.
In any case, I’m glad there are some people with whom polite disagreement remains possible 🙂
Mihnea,
The strange thing is the first part of that “thousands don’t have to die” doesn’t sound like’s Jon voice, but the second part “only one of us” does sound like him.
Mihnea,
Still
I just cant its so negative sometimes LOL.
Also, side note, when you are talking about weeks, like monday to friday, its WEEK. And when you are saying “not strong”, its WEAK.
🙂
Dee Stark,
What he’s saying is how do we know the Waif hasn’t trained blind herself ? In the books it seems that many trainees (maybe all) go through the blindness test.
Obviously the show has could have changed this, but the point is, how does Arya know that the Waif hasn’t undergone the same training ? She’s way ahead of Arya in every way.
Dee Stark,
Thanks!! It’s really hard when they sound the same….
Eh, I’m used with the negativity, the other places I was hanging around where much worse. I was suprised and delighted when I found this place.
Markus Stark,
I didnt know Maisie said that. I am not a fan of doing things only for the sake of shock lol. it was so obvious she wasnt going to die since they showed her in the preview. So, I dont get it. haha
Yes we agree to disagree.
Well, maybe she will be able to kill people like Jaquen did in season 2, quick and stealth. I just still dont understand George’s plans for her in the overall story.
Yep, I had a good chuckle when he said that! A reminder of his fight in the inn with Arya and the king’s men, Polliver, et al back in S4. I reckon the show runners put in that line for Sandor to appease the fans as we all loved that scene 😉
Rory in his acting career as playing the character of Sandor will always be associated with KFC LOL 😮
A lot of complaints about Blackfish dying off screen. My two cents he appears again and his death was a fakeout. The look Edmure gives him and then just continues to walk says there is more to the story. I think he either appears at Frey and Lannister celebration or he attacks the party thats transporting Edmure, his wife and kid to the Casterly Rock.
Arya just being allowed to leave HoBW is probably part of the bigger plot. We still don’t know much about FM and what their real purpose is. What if they server the great Other and it was their plan all along to let her go back and meet with certain prince that was promised. She’ll probably be tirggered to assasinate somebody close to Jon just before or close to final battle and he’ll have to stop her hence she becoming his nissa nissa or whatever.
Markus Stark,
I know, but do we need an explanation for everything. From what we see, the blindness was going to be Arya’s advantage against the waif, who was smug and arrogant everytime she beat arya. Why cant we just accept that the waif doesnt know how to fight properly in the dark… why do we need to know what her training was. Arya was blinded as punishment, and not as part of her training (on the show) so theres no indication that all trainees go through the blind training.
Assuming Jon becomes KITN by the end of this season, I wonder what Sansa’s roles will be for next season. I’m guessing the last 2 seasons revolve around the battle for the dawn. So will Sansa’s story arc be intertwined with LF?
Mihnea,
Youre welcome 🙂
And this after 3 chapters in AFFC, 2 in ADWD and at least 1 in TWoW in Braavos; 11 years in real time and counting.
At least we get a conclusion with the show inside 2 years and Maisie is a joy to watch!
In a world without plot armor:
Waif walks in and closes door.
Arya draws Needle.
Waif laughs at Arya.
Arya slices candle……
Waif turns around and opens door.
Dee Stark,
I don’t think the point was to make Arya a better killer. But that she is Arya Stark, and her place is home, in Westeros as Arya Stark not No one.
My biggest complaint of her story in the books, was that it felt as a training trip, where Arya was being given information and training(honestly though I don’t even know what training people mention when they say she learned stuff in the books, she learned Braavosi and how to steal some coins), just because she isn’t ready for her next part of the story. I had this complain towards the show also….until last night, that is.
Flayed Potatoes,
I never disagree that it was not unrealistic. My point is that is not the first, the only or the last beat that will be unrealistic in this show. Knowing what is like to actually do the job, mind you without the stress of a professional production deadline, I tend to be more lenient on the writers because I know what the whole process involves. I wish people understood just a bit how much work goes into any production and not just in theory. I am not saying don’t criticize because lord knows that I found things to silently criticize about the show during its duration but do so knowing that the producers don’t often have the luxury of time to make things perfect. That at the end of the day, they are producing something enjoyable and putting a lot of effort into it.
Sean C.,
Your observations are, as always, spot on.
Regarding the ravens, I’m assuming Brienne will use the magical recipient seeking ravens that Sansa must have used to write to Littlefinger. I guess in the show ravens can travel to armies in the field (unless we’re meant to believe Littlefinger has actually captured Moat Cailin, and isn’t merely encamped nearby).
Clearly, D&D have made the decision not to be bothered by such questions. Admirably bold, and incredibly silly.
Dee Stark,
Getting blind was a punishment in the books too, she killed someone she wasn’t supposed too, not Trant though.
Grayven Reyne,
Waif turns to open door.
Arya stabs her in the back with the pointy end.
I was pretty disappointed in the episode overall. Not seeing the Blackfish go down fighting or the final Arya vs Waif battle were major let downs.
I enjoyed Jamie in this episode the Brienne interaction was nice but I loved the exchange with Edmure. I only wish Jamie had the singer available. “You know the song I trust.”
Dee Stark,
Yeah, seeing her use some of Jaqen’s techniques from Season 2 would be great. I agree, Arya’s endgame is one of the hardest to figure out.
Dee Stark,
That’s fine if that explanation satisfies you, it’s not a gaping plot hole or anything, I am definitely nitpicking on that one.
I just prefer tighter writing. I like to pick things apart and analyze them, and one of the things I loved about the show early on was that everything held up to scrutiny.
Like I said, it’s not a big deal at all, I just would have preferred a more carefully plotted climax.
Aw hon, there were bound to be mixed feelings with this episode and i for one had them, but that doesn’t mean people should condemn or insult anyone just because their opinion differs. I still play video games, RPG, and I’m older than you..I also like to read and watch epic shows such as GOT…lol. Some people LIVE to think their opinion is the ONLY opinion. Trolls who probably would pull the wings off a butterfly….
Hugs!!
Markus Stark,
You’re right. D&D should obviously spend time explaining how ravens are trained to deliver messages to various locations.
Miss Stark,
Well it’s probably piss poor production if we have to go look at eyebrow width’s to determine whose face it is!
Sure looked like Arya to me, at first glance, and even at the 100th.
rorschach,
I don’t think Jaime will die with her. I do think he will kill her. I think he’ll take the fight north against the walkers and ultimately perish. That’s how he should go. He’s always wanted to be honorable even if others haven’t seen his actions as being that way.
Grayven Reyne,
Haha didn’t even think about that last bit. So true, why the fuck didn’t the Waif just step back and open the door to let the light in ?
Sean C.,
Good point, lol. It’s a minor quibble, it’s okay if the raven magically finds Sansa.
WinterRy71,
Of all the silly nitpicking, this was among the funniest.
Just behind, the guy complaining they said ”catapult” and not ”trebuchet”.
I forgot
NOT CLEGANEBOWL CONFIRMED! GET HYPE!
I agree with you. I did not understand why the question came up to begin with. “We need to know this so we can criticize that scene some more?”
For a show watcher, untainted by the books, it is apparent that Arya had the upper hand in the dark. Hence the Waif’s face is in the little cubby.
Elizabeth,
Thank you.
In books Edmure is smirking at Jaime because he let his uncle escape and here they made him look like he didn’t even care. I was so looking forward for Riverland story and it just wasn’t right. THEY KILLED THE BLACKFISH OFF-SCREEN! I was hoping for so much more.
Er, because she wanted to shut off Arya’s only possible means of escape?
(Misplaced over-confidence rules!)
Hate to say this, but on the TV show, >95% of watchers don’t give a shit about the blackfish.
WinterRy71,
No, they just shouldn’t have ravens that can magically find the recipient wherever they happen to be. Nobody said they needed to explain how the ravens travel. It’s obvious how the ravens travel. To fixed locations. Having them able to magically find people wherever they are is obviously nonsensical. Brienne has no idea where Sansa is.
By your logic, why should anything make sense ? Who cares, let’s just not pay attention to any details. Hell, next they should have a character who is looking for someone just use one of these magical ravens to find them, wherever they are. Why not ? Fuck logic.
There were many other ways you could make that scene more satisfactory. They could have shown them exchange a few blows, Arya carefully leading the Waif to a vulnerable position, then cut off the light to completely take the Waif by surprise, then deliver a killer blow ( which they could have used audio ).
Better writers may have come up with that or something similar. Sadly not D&D, no, they’d rather waste minutes on cock and fuck jokes. All we have ever gotten out of this Braavos storyline is Waif humiliating Arya again and again. And for what? All that melodramatic build-up leading to the butchering of a Candle.
Lets make it clear, even the above scenario wouldn’t take away the other bullsh!t like Arya surviving three stabs, Arya having an endless supply of blood etc but it would still salvage something out of this mess that is the show!Braavos.
You know, Dee, I didn’t think about it at first, but yeah…you are right and it WAS a pretty cool way to end that scene. I did like that it picked up with a blood trail in HoBaW.
BranTheBlessed,
Sansa got some bonus points for being the POV character for the two best-written chapters in book 3 (IMO): the Queen of Thorns/Butterbumps chapter, and the snow castle chapter. Arya not getting as much credit for some of the cool things that happen in her book 3 chapters is just a matter of personal preference, I guess. Vengeance is not inherently interesting to me.
Kudos to you for also having a username that references Bran, by the way.
Markus Stark,
Its safe to assume that Jon/Davos/Sansa told Brienne before they split up where they were going to make camp before the war.
Were you just assuming that Brienne was now going to be totally lost and wander around westeros for looking for Sansa for the rest of the show? Oh wait, that happened in the books.
ArgonathofBraavos,
ArgonathofBraavos,
Thank you!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Dude, I’m obviously talking about after Arya cut the candle. Since apparently the Waif has no clue how to fight in the dark, but Arya does, her first instinct should have been to open the door and let the light in.
Even if Arya escapes, who cares ? It’s better than dying for the Waif, plus she can just chase her. Arya is bleeding profusely, shouldn’t be too hard for the Waif to catch up.
In any case, it was a small room. For Arya to leave, she would have had to run past the Waif, who would have easily killed her.
Doesn’t it? Last time I checked, a fight depends on all its participants, not just one. Then again, I suppose you don’t even deem it necessary to know why Waif has this hatred for Arya.
Really enjoyed last nights episode, especially the Jaime/Brienne scenes.
I was wondering though, wasn’t there some rumours that NCW filmed in Iceland for GOT last year? Or was that wrong? I’m just trying to think if we’ve had those scenes yet or if the Riverlands were all shot in Ireland? Just if not that might mean he hangs around the Riverlands for longer…
(Can you tell I’m nervous about him heading back to Kings Landing)
I am genuinely surprised by how many people were disappointed in this episode.
I’m not saying that everything the show does is brilliant. GoT sertainly has its share of cheesy, poorly thought out TV moments.
I laughed at a few. The waif in terminator mode, chasing Arya and doing parkour in the streets of Bravos (it didn’t seem like a faceless assassin MO). But the payoff came when Arya took a waterdancer stance and cuts the candle. For weeks I have been hearing people complain about Arya’s storyline – why is she in Braavos? When is she reclaiming her identity and heading back to Winterfell? Then, in this episode, bam! We get Arya Stark back and she is ready to go home.
Another cheesy moment was Dany coming through the window, cape fluttering like she is Batman. But that, too, was a sign that Dany’s plotline is finally going somewhere. The Mereen battle was gorgeous, and now Dany, Drogon, and the Dothraki finally have something to fight. It was also an appropriate reckoning for Tyrion. His scenes with Missandei and Grey Worm have been occasionally painful, but I think they also demonstrated his arrogance. Tyrion is realizing he might not be the strategic genius he thought he was.
I enjoyed Cersei’s downfall, her growing desperation and her plotting with Qyburn. I enjoyed Sandor “Axe Cop” Clegane and the rapid turnaround of his vengeance trip.
Jamie in the Riverlands was a bit awkward. Although it was one of my favorite parts of the books, the TV adaptation didn’t bother me. I think it was handled well. It certainly demonstrated that peace is often achieved through ugly and distasteful means. It also finally gave us cause to feel real sympathy for Edmure. Not only was he saving his child, but I get the feeling that he was finally taking responsibility as a man and a Lord of a great house, to stop further bloodshed.
My friends who watch the show with me heartily disagreed, though. ; )
Overall, I feel like we have been a bit spoiled by this season. The majority of episodes have stood out as very strong. This episode stood out as being a bit weaker, but I didn’t think it was by any means a bad episode.
And when she turns around to do so – stabby stabby!
Is that too much to believe? Well clearly you are determine to hate this whole thing and no mere words will change your mind.
ManderlyPieCompany,
No, Areo and Roose were both stabbed directly in the heart (Areo from behind, obviously- maybe it was his spine too). Arya was just stabbed in the gut…
Joh,
Mostly this.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
She didn’t have time anyway, Arya would have killed her before she got to the door….
RG,
This… so much This! :o(
I feel like this episode has just been a turning point in regards of how much I will continue to love this adaption.
It is an extremely Weak outcome and poor character writing and has lead me to remember other parts of this series that I didn’t enjoy.
It made me wonder if the producers were getting a bit worried with ‘lastablity’ into the sixth season, that they relied on fan-favourite reappearances and star guest appearances, to be rendered mute or quickly ‘scissored’ out… (I haven’t explained this well.. forgive that I’m not as articulate as many of you)
I want this series to be Terrrific but Am slightly worried that without GRRM’s guidelines, the writing and storylines are about to suffer.
If they can get away with this Arya plotline… it does make me wonder what else their going to try. :o(
WinterRy71,
Even if they had told her where they were going to make camp, how does the raven find the camp ? Did Brienne give the raven the geographical coordinates of the location ?
Obviously this is a very minor detail, it’s not important, it’s just silly that the writers don’t make any effort with the details.
And to answer your question, I expected Brienne would obviously go to Winterfell, especially if she had successfully recruited the Tullys, since that is where Sansa was headed. I never said anything about wandering aimlessly. Brienne doesn’t need to wander around Westeros, she knows where Sansa will be. Either she’ll take Winterfell and be there, or she’ll fail and most likely die there.
I just didn’t expect magical ravens to be introduced.
BranTheBlessed,
The show is not about the waif, its about arya, we do not need to know the waifs resume in order to believe that arya beat her in the dark. what we have seen was arya was PUNISHED and blinded and had to train blind. We didnt see jaquen say “As phase 2 of your training you will be blinded temporarily, just like all other trainees. ”
shes jealous of her cause jaquen likes her.
youre pushing it a little.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
She really is a great actress. Probably one of the better on the show. Dinklage is still my favorite actor in the series, but his character is completely out of place in the series right now. Tyrion is definitely more interesting in Westeros where he’s more familiar with the players, history and way things are done. If Dany keeps him around that’s where he will be useful. Obviously he thought it would be easier to sell the slavers on a different way to make a living. His lack of knowledge with this new area of the world isn’t helping him.
Tywin of the Hill,
BRIENNE vs THE HOUND PART 2 confirmed! RE-HYPE
BranTheBlessed,
Yes yes you would make a better writer than D&D
LOLs
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I’m not “determined” to hate it. I watched it and made my own opinion, so obviously nobody will convince me to like it if I didn’t already. Nobody saw something I didn’t.
And I didn’t hate it. It was disappointing to me, that’s all. I gave the Braavos section of the episode a 6/10, that’s far from “hate”.
Overconfidence, I suppose. The Waif has defeated Arya every single time, she probably thought she could take her on, inspite of the darkness.
Or alternatively, she may have been taken by surprise by Arya’s action and she was overpowered before she could react.
Of all the problems with the last three scenes for Arya this is what bothers me least of all! No matter how it played out, I think some would still be whinging and posting 500 times about it.
Dee Stark,
Maybe he would, D&D are no great writers.
In any case, one doesn’t need to better than them to point out their flaws, just like you don’t need to be a doctor to know that if your surgeon slices your artery accidentally while operating on you, that’s a massive mistake.
The two things that upset me the most about this episode is:
1) The faceless men are basically pointless now. Sure, they trained Arya to fight and protect herself (hmm, maybe not), but there is clearly much more going on with them in the books (Jaqen at Oldtown as Pate w/ Sam). Arya goes to them, wants to become part of them, is told, “Ok, but you have to leave your past behind”, trains, disobeys and KILLS one of their disciples, says, “Ah, never mind. I think I’m going to head out. Thanks.” and Jaqen is cool with that?! Such a minimization of a really interesting and secretive group within the GOT universe.
2) Jaime is awful and not at all interesting in the show. Sure, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is fantastic and I actually thoroughly enjoyed the scenes with Brienne and Edmure (at the beginning) last night, but his character arc is non-existent in the show. His path is amazing in the books, and I loathed him early on only to find myself rooting for him as much as anyone. In the show, he hasn’t had any real, concrete growth. He’s despicable. Every time he has a heart to heart with someone (Edmure last night) I keep holding out hope it’ll finally click. Nope. I’m not sure if the writers are trying for some big payoff with him, where he tries to redeem himself with some ultimate sacrifice, but I think it’s taken too long for that to develop and I don’t think at this point I’d even care.
Danny,
Except it’s their job to deliver solid episodes within a deadline. If they struggle with deadlines, then maybe they should consider expanding their writing staff or something. Other producers/writers have to face the same challenges/deadlines they do. Their job isn’t unique in Hollywood.
Dee Stark,
There is so much nitpicking going on today.
WinterRy71,
That would be impossible too. Why would any raven be trained to fly to some random spot in the North?
Ravens are a simple dramatic device. They introduce limited rapid communication between fixed locations. They also have limitations, meaning, they cannot be used beyond that. Brienne being able to just send Sansa a message breaks the rules established, which undermines dramatic integrity.
Well it was disappointing in some aspects to me too (see earlier posts) but fuck it, it’s just a TV show, overall I was entertained by the last scene and I’m just going to roll with it.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
If you’re so happy with it, that’s awesome ! Good for you, I mean that genuinely.
I don’t know why you insist on forcing your opinion on others. Some of us liked it, some of us didn’t.
Let’s agree to disagree and move the fuck on with our lives. We’re all fans of the show, bickering over differences of opinion is childish.
I agree 100% with your comments Dee… We’re on the same wavelength 😉
I thought on the whole E8 was pretty good. Don’t see why there’s so much negativity on WotW from quite a few posters regarding this episode. Seems to me too many fans get pissed off if their expectations are not fulfilled. No LSH, no ‘Cleganebowl’ and so forth. For this reason I don’t have strong reactions (i.e. Hype) of what will happen. I just take it as it comes and leave it at that.
I seldom speculate on what will happen, but we all know the Battle of the Bastards is coming next week. However, I have a ‘gut feeling’ we’ll see more of the Battle of Meereen now Dany is back? Perhaps with all 3 dragons in action who will destroy the invading fleet. Now that will be something epic to see, huh 🙂
Chuck,
Probably taking down LF, finding out about Ned, gaining control of Sweetrobin and the Vale forces.
Okay.
Long-time lurker posting for the first time, as three things have been stewing in my mind since last night and finally are boiling over:
1) I don’t mind that the Blackfish died, but his decision to make a last stand just didn’t feel at all organic. Last episode he said “as long as I’m alive, the war’s not over”. Then Brienne shows up with a realistic way for him to continue the war and support his last living family, and he just decides to throw it all away for personal pride? Didn’t feel right at all.
2) Dinklage has been wasted all year. Is this really the same Tyrion that outmaneuvered everyone in King’s Landing a few seasons ago? Playing drinking games and being played by slavers? It’s obvious the writers had no idea what to do with him this year.
Really makes me wish they had kept Hizdahr and Selmy alive – then Tyrion would have had actual foils to play off of. Actual storylines could have been made about Meereen’s internal politics, instead of the awkward socializing we’ve gotten just to give them all screen time.
3) It’s been mentioned by plenty of others already, but yeah, that Arya plot was really just absurd.
Miss Stark,
I know. may avoid coming here after the next two
im all for seeing differences of opinion, and im happy that there are differences, it makes it interesting. its just SO SO negative lately. I know many people who watch the show but dont visit this website, and it feels all the more positive.
whatever
Dee Stark,
Any good writer could fix inconsistencies and have time for small details if they had no deadline and were writing just for fun and giggles. That is what kills me about forum critics bashing the writers as if they had any idea of what is like to write under such short deadline. As if they could do it better under the same circumstances. 1 minute of screen time means 1 page. A 52 minute episode means roughly a 52 page screenplay. A 10 episode season means roughly about 520-550 screen pages that need to be written in a span of what? 6 months, including re-writes? I once forced myself to write a 130 page screenplay with a couple of re-writes in about 3 1/2 months. I did a lot of writing, I sat so long that I ended up injuring my tailbone. I may have spent about 4-6 hours writing daily and that is only because I had other obligations and work. So people who bash the writers and think they could do better in the same circumstances – guess what? I doubt it.
I’m not “forcing my opinion” on anyone – just putting some opposing arguments with yours and a few others. Not the same thing old fruity.
If you feel forced to change your opinion it just means you’re losing the argument 🙂
Danny,
Nobody is making them do so much by themselves. If they don’t have time to catch stuff like that, hire more writers.
Danny,
Agreed… i cant comprehend the bashing of the writers. its fucking ridiculous.
They have a different writing style from George = fine… but to bash them like some have. Wow.
Yep, its incredible! The rants and vitriol one expects to see in posts on sites such as westeros.org are now sadly permeating onto WotW 🙁
Flayed Potatoes,
Yes, and other producers and writers produce 100% quality throughout the duration of their shows? Are D&D the only producers/writers to ever fall short on episodes? Nope. And at the end of the day, it’s their party and they do what they want to, do what they want to. They owe us nothing.
I actually loved the way they cut the Waif-Arya fight. It felt right to me. The expert slicing of the candle said it all. The follow-up in the HoBaW was brilliant. My only regret in this last Arya sequence is that I wish they’d made Arya’s mastery of the faces more explicit. Perhaps there was no eloquent way to do that, and perhaps showing her taking a new face in Westeros will be all the more dramatic by leaving that ability ambiguous for now.
I was reasonably pleased with the entirety of the Arya storyline this episode. For me, there was no possible scenario in which the writers could recover from how they had boxed themselves in during the previous episode. The reason we were so fucking desperate to theorize outlandishly last week is that we were trying to fanwank ourselves out of the problems we saw in this storyline during “The Broken Man.”
1.) Why would Arya take Needle from its incredibly well hidden spot only to leave it to be found and stolen in some random, unlocked room in Braavos?
2.) Why would Arya not know the FM were after her after she failed to show up that night with Lady Crane’s face, especially since Jaqen said, “One way or another, a face will be added to the Hall”?
3.) If Arya did know the FM were after her, why did she strut and lollygag all around Braavos in broad daylight, recklessly allowing strange faces to come so close?
4.) How did Arya go from being viciously stabbed in the gut multiple times to feverish and dying to superwoman?
But as last week progressed, I grew more and more certain we could never even fanwank ourselves out of this hole. I knew we’d be left with questions that would never fully make sense and that we’d have to chalk up to Hollywood magic. In normal television shows, we probably wouldn’t think twice about these questions, but we’ve come to expect so much more from GoT.
Overall, the problems with Arya this week were really more of a last week problem. The Meereen storyline would have been much better if it had not been there at all. And the missing North hurt the episode as a whole. If the entire episode were as tight and solid as the Riverlands, I would have been quite happy, even with a missing North. Alas.
I find it a little amusing about the complaints of stuff happening ‘off screen’ being D&D ‘bad writing’ when it is also an extremely common device of GRRM’s. He does that sort of thing regularly. It’s part of his plotting style.
Sean C.,
I agree. I guess we’re meant to assume she’ll send a raven to Castle Black and someone will then ride from there to Jon and Sansa’s camp to deliver it. I don’t even know at this point.
Danny,
They do. They owe viewers (especially those who pay for the show) quality episodes and storytelling. Like every writer and producer does. If you’re content with unrealistic plotting and storytelling, good for you.
Flayed Potatoes,
LOL
Markus Stark,
It’s not really that important. If it makes you feel better maybe the raven goes to the wall and the message is relayed via a different raven that was sent back to the wall after reaching their camp. This way that raven knows where to go?
Flayed Potatoes,
Perhaps he/she didn’t thought it was ”unrealistic plotting” or ”bad storytelling”
No need to insult someone just because he disagrees with you..
Mihnea,
You should follow your own advice.
bringdownthatwall,
Or perhaps Sansa will never get word of this, or the raven dies and this moment will never be mentioned again…etc.
Seriously this raven stuff is becoming the silliest nitpick I saw all day.
Flayed Potatoes,
I didn’t insult anyone here, for not liking the story. When they start throwing insults and such towards the writers, actors…etc. is when I’m a bit more ”harsh”.
Or when people are adamant that something is bad writing and whoever liked it is in ”denial” or if he liked it it means he is a idiot who enjoys ”bad/shallow storytelling”
I’m rewatching the episode. I think if only they had added a few more scenes it would have been a good episode. Just the beginning of a fight with the Blackfish and the end result. The sound of Arya stabbing in the dark. A bit more Faith Militants killed by the mountain. And maybe showing Dany arriving with Drogon.
And they should have omitted Arya’s scene with the waif from last week.
Finger Bones & Hot Pie,
I’m not entirely sure how far they are going to go with Cersei’s trial, but if he makes it back in time to see the trial that could change how he feels towards her. That’s really the one thing that’s been missing in Jaime from the show vs. the book. He is still under the belief that he and Cersei are this strange perfect match and meant for one another. Where, based on her actions in the book, isn’t how she feels. That really hasn’t played out for her character on screen though. So….?
Oz, Hope you don’t mind that I post this here. I posted in another thread but no response and I am really anxious to know:
There were sections of this one that I really enjoyed and others simply made no sense to me (Arya). However, one thing stood out- the superb score. Ramin Djwaldi is killing it! Does anyone know when we will able to purchase S6 score?
Well I simply have to forget that Arya stabbing scene last week ever happened for anything in Arya’s storyline to make sense. Lady Crane either has magical healing powers that were not at all acknowledged by the show, Arya has Wolverine-eqsue healing abilities or she is just simply tougher than Jon Snow, Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister and the many many other characters who quickly died from similar or lesser injuries. GOT asks us to suspend disbelief more than any other show, but that a young girl can eat, run, jump and fight with her guts ground up like mincemeat is just ridiculous.
On any other show, D&D would have lost me as a viewer right there! Aside from the injuries, how can you take a girl who Tywin ‘the mackdaddy’ Lannister considers ‘too smart for her own good’, train her in secret assassin ways for two years and then make her a complete dumbass by the end of it?
It seems D&D are replacing GRRM’s brilliant twists and shock moments for cheap ones that the fans can either see straight through, or have to dream up their own off screen events just so they make sense?
Ultimately, D&D seem to think that having so many viewers now must mean that the audience are mostly morons who just want cheap shocks at the expense of proper story telling.
On lesser notes: Blackfish deserved better, Lem Lem and co’s actions made no sense at all, Tyrion was made to look an idiot (he has ruled and defended a much bigger city than Meereen successfully but neglects to mention this when dissed by Grey Worm) as well as being blamed for the slaver’s invasion when, if anything, he at least delayed it by treating with them.
I would also note that D&D’s High Sparrow effectively endorsed breaking guest right and murder (the Red Wedding) by allowing Tommen to send Jamie and Lannister Army to Riverrun. In the books, the Freys have had to lie to cover up their dishonourable actions. Show HS is that popular that he can endorse the biggest sins in Westeros on one hand, whilst condemning the well-loved Margaery and Loras for far lesser crimes?
Maybe I’m being picky with that last one but the fact is there are plot holes this season and illogical storylines than in all of GRRM’s original material combined. Some can be forgiven for the sake of good storytelling (eg. the fast travel bits), others are simply laziness on the part of the creators, or they are trolling their core fanbase way too much.
It does look like next episode will make me forget all of this quite quickly but I now have a new top 3 moments that D&D should hang their head in shame for:
1) Arya being a staggering bloody mess one week and then, after a sleep and a glass of milk, feeling right as rain.
2) Jamie Lannister stripped of Lord Commander position, but without any mention that this effectively makes him rightful Lord of Casterly Rock and heir to the throne (some punishment!) when HS could easily have had him thrown in jail. Unless Tommen is willing to throw his mother to the wolves but not his uncle/secret dad?
3) Barristan Selmy dying to save Grey Worm instead of Dany. Much like the Blackfish, this legendary character deserved alot better.
Raise your game (of thrones) D&D! And please remember, you have one of the most intelligent audiences on TV, and we are watching. We are the shield the defends the realms of epic storytelling and we might have to mutiny against you if you keep pulling this crap.
Mihnea,
I just think it’s funny. It’s like trying to figure out the owl delivery service in Harry Potter. It just works.
Now at least we know that Arya is like her Uncle : She was stabbed in the heart by an obsidian dagger so as not to turn into a Wight.
No need to show it to us, it happened off-screen.
Amongst the other issues, this is the problem caused by giving us no idea of the passage of time (other than the two scenes being separated at beginning and end of the episode). Even if we assume enough time to recover (in a world with only basic A&E administered by an actress – a few weeks?) how is it that it took so long for the Waif to find her?
So many problems could have been avoided by giving Arya a more superficial injury, but as we know from MW interview the writers wanted more jeopardy.
I don’t know, on all the issues you mention maybe they had to cut some scenes for time that might have made things clearer.
Then again a show like Person of Interest doesn’t tend to bother with details like this either (anything at all is basically possible if the writers want it) and is none the less great fun to watch (and probably not picked apart by viewers to death), as you say we expect more and maybe too much from GoT.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Hasn’t Tyrion been kicked around, humiliated, looked down on his entire life, starting with his family to everyone else? He arrived to Essos stuck in a crate, then was kidnapped by Jorah, then sold into slavery only to miraculously be accepted by Dany. And that’s just in the past 2 seasons. I just don’t see how the highest priority for Tyrion’s character can be learning humility. It’s basically a sorry excuse for unimaginative writing. Many can see the difference in show quality when it becomes D&D’s fan fiction versus when it is actual ASOIAf canon, and Tyrion’s writing is a great example of that this season.
bringdownthatwall,
The owls in Harry Potter are magical. That’s how they work.
Anyway, the writers have now introduced magic ravens that can find anybody anywhere in Westeros merely by being asked to. Expect numerous instances in the future where this would be useful but will not be used.
Sorry – I posted in the wrong thread but does anyone know?! Thanks folks
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
No more than a few hours have passed. If the Waif didn’t find Arya right away, she still had Lady Crane to kill and she already knew where to find her.
I think the QoT will have something up her sleeve, especially now that Loras’s trial date has been set. I think she’ll get both Margaery and Loras back to the safety of Highgarden and away from the High Sparrow’s reach.
Cersei’s Brain,
according to itunes, sound track of season 5 came out on June 9 2015, i am assuming just after the finale.
Flayed Potatoes,
We will never agree on this. I have a different perspective than you do. I’m a writer and I’ve worked on productions, mind you not at the HBO level which maybe I will do someday. That colors my perspective. I never said that the show is perfect and that it couldn’t use fine tuning, I simply understand what pressure they are working under. And when looking at the entire picture, I have rather enjoyed their work and I’m glad that they have been willing to put so much effort into it and share it with us. I don’t watch things I don’t enjoy, I have stopped watching show unceremoniously when I found myself not liking them anymore or not finding joy in watching.
If all we’re supposed to take away from Arya’s time in Braavos is her embracing her identity, they didn’t need to show us any of the physical combat. Because they did show us the physical combat, they should have showed Arya demonstrably improving as time passed. She was already good in Season 1. And then she never quite seemed that good in all her time in Braavos. It would have been ideal to see her improve there, too. But I’m hoping that the biggest thing Arya takes from Braavos is the ability to change faces. I must be the only one who hopes that, though.
I watched the episode three times last night. During my HBO Go viewings I usually have a couple scenes that earn the skip-over treatment on subsequent viewings. This week’s scenes were the Varys departure, elimination of trial by combat announcement and the Jaime-Edmure conversation. They were okay scenes but not for repeated viewing if I have the option to skip. I thought there were a few really strong scenes that brought on some emotions and enjoyable to watch several times.
As a whole I thought the episode was ‘good’ – like a 7.5 or so. I always try to avoid judging this series by stand alone episodes but rather as one very long program. This week I’m going to attempt to stay mostly out of the debates. I’m seeing some rather silly complaints that I just don’t agree with or feel like addressing. People seem to come up with their ideas of what should happen and if it goes differently then it’s bad. Whatever.
My high points for this installment:
– All of Arya’s parts.
I can completely ignore how badly Arya was or was not hurt. People are generally quite indestructible in movies and television and this didn’t push belief nearly as much as so many others. I’m actually glad the ‘final battle’ was in the dark. It not only proves that she retained her heightened senses without sight but I also think people would have complained that the fight was too cheesy had we seen it. Damned if you do or don’t type thing. Goodbye resting bitch face Waif and I’m happy with the interaction and goodbye(?) between Jaqen & Arya.
– Jaime & Brienne/Blackfish & Brienne
You can really see how J&B are drawn to each other while fighting against it internally. I loved the waves as Pod paddled Brienne away. Her scene with the Blackfish was great too. I thought this episode was some of Gwendoline’s best work. “Tell her I’ve failed.”
– Bronn & Pod
– Sandor scenes
I don’t care if they possibly ruled out any LSH involvement. That was some badass axe wielding and good banter with the BWB.
– Daenerys
Her entry from the balcony via arrival by Uber Dragon was cool for me. It’s not unbelievable that she’d show up then. Meereen can be seen for miles and even further from the sky. I imagine the noise of a siege and being on fire as flaming missiles from ships fly through the air would be quite noticeable from a fair distance. I look forward to what comes next. Dothraki and the Greyjoy fleet may arrive at the same time. Greyjoy ships + remaining ships of the Masters after the battle + all of Daenerys’ army in Meereen = finally sailing for Westeros.
Those take up a lot of the episode. Fill in the ‘skip scenes’ from above and that’s most of the episode. The “jokes scene” was rather flat admittedly and the “I choose violence scene” could have been better, more violent. Lancel should have been a curtain call this week.
Decent episode overall.
The thing about the Arya scenes that really bugs me is that it seemed to telegraph that Arya had set this up. She leaves Needle in a place to be found where she can fight in the dark and use the advantage she has. She makes this dramatic escape, very obvious, the whole thing was this in-your-face obviousness from the moment she starts throwing money bags around and talking about going to Westeros…she goes back to the acting troop, which seems a likely choice, leaves a trail of blood to be sure that the Waif finds her…I kept thinking that there would be a payoff, something to show that Arya had this all planned out, but no. Apparently, it is just Hollywood Healing. All I needed was her showing up at the actor’s place, pulling off a metal belt with bags of pigs’ blood attached or something and boom, I’m sold. I don’t ask for much. I can suspend disbelief. But the way it ended up…just no. That was terrible writing.
I did like Jamie and Brienne, Pod and Bronn and seeing Edmure calling Jaime out. Mereen…still don’t really care, so just let those dragons out to have fun and make pretty fire. WTF ever with Dany just showing up right on cue. Honestly, it was 1000% expected, so *shrugs*
“Her uncle Kevan shows up just long enough to be a misogynistic ass…”
I think the word you’re searching for is chauvinistic, not misogynistic. But I’m not sure that’s fair – I mean, Kevan seems no worse than any other man of this society, but more importantly, it’s not so much that he has contempt for women, but that he has contempt for Cersei. And for good cause.
We all may hate the Faith Militant and how they’ve seduced Tommen, but let’s not forget that Cersei is still a grade A villain, especially because she’s the one who unleashed them in the first place. There’s not much rooting interest in this battle (though I actually think Kevan would be the most capable guy to have running things).
I don’t know who are worse:
The extreme asoiaf fans who constantly compare and criticize the show wrt the books
Or the sanctimonious GoT crowd– who seem to be under the belief that pretending everything about the show is the absolute best and lashing out at anyone who does not follow the same train of thoughts–make them better fans than the rest.
Ginevra,
I was thinking more on a character level than a skills level, she could have improved combat skills, improved dark vision, potions, learned face-changing etc and at the end of the episode chosen to be an FM and stay in the HoB&W, but she didn’t. I imagine those skills will come into play or perhaps our knowledge of the ways of the FM will be important for something else, who knows!
BranTheBlessed,
Okay? Lol
I’m not lashing out on you for not liking the show or whatever, I don’t care if you enjoy the show or not.
Your bashing the writers is outrageous though.
And I don’t pretend everything about the show is the best, IT IS MY OPINION that 90% of the show is the best ?
The only place Brienne could send a raven to Sansa is Castle Black – Edd can use a rider to deliver it to Sansa, wherever they are.
Athelstane,
I’m not “searching” for any word.
Kevan is a misogynist, like many men in Westerosi society. He’s not unique, he’s a product of his world. Cersei may be a jerk (she is), but that doesn’t mean she is not also subject to misogyny and mistreatment due to her gender.
Chauvinist could also apply but that’s not the word I chose to use. I’m going to sit here and shake my head in amazement at you trying to tell me which words I should be using.
Soooo….what will happen to the remaining Tully armies? Were they walking out of the castle? Where will they go?
I liked the episode, or at least most of it. But it continues the trend of the second half of the season being weaker than the first half, IMO. I felt the same way about season 5, excluding Hardhome. We’ll see if the final two can deliver the goods and not feel as rushed as ‘Dance Of The Dragons’ and ‘Mother’s Mercy’. I fear that a few of the storylines in the finale will feel that way, but the longer running time should help.
Just starting to get a sense of the whole season, and while it started strong, it has settled in to being ahead of season 5, but behind the first 4 seasons in quality, IMO. Maybe if it closes strongly it could jump ahead of season 2 for me, but I doubt it.
A metal belt with bags of pig blood would have been terrible in MY opinion. I thought most of the theories last week were pretty bad and said as much. I felt like it was going to be similar to what they did and I think it was a better choice than taking it to absurd. I thought Arya just didn’t expect such a quick response attack and in broad daylight, figuring she could leave the city before they got to her. After that she was in survival mode.
Sue the Fury,
Do you think he’s treating Cersei like that because she’s a woman or because she’s Cersei? I have a feeling that Kevan would treat Jamie just as dismissively. Kevan just doesn’t like his niece and nephew, he thinks they are both disgraceful and he’s right. I don’t think Kevan would dare treat the Queen of Thornes the way he treats Cersei.
Athelstane,
Agree. show!Tommen is a king of age, who does not need a regent. Cersei is not even the queen, she is the queen mother. Cersei has no place standing near Tommen – it is also not good for Tommen’s image to give the impression that he is under his mother’s control, especially if the KL public thinks his mother is a harlot. You saw how the people in the throne room threw glances at Cersei.
Cersei may have Tommen’s best interests at heart, but from Kevan’s viewpoint, she must be kept away from Tommen. I don’t think it misogynistic at all, given Cersei’s actions. Some of Robb’s actions towards Catelyn were misogynistic. (Before she gave him cause to mistrust her by freeing Jaime).
BranTheBlessed,
Right? Simply pointing out that some of the inane arcs the writers have come up with this season is enough for folks here to lose their shit. It is possible to be fans of the show and still offer up critiques.
Clob,
This. Completely agree.
I would bet money on Cersei not burning down KL. i really dont think she is that crazy (while Tommen is alive)
If the rumour they are speaking about is to do with Wildfire why would Qyburn regard Wildfire as being of any interest? There is no reason the two of them would discuss wildfire. The rumour does seem more likely to be about Tyrion in Meeren or that Joffrey was killed by the Tyrells/LF. OR is it a false rumour of some sort – is Qyburn up to something?
Im really stoked that Beric and Thoros are back – love those two and it feels a good resolution of the Hound’s plotline that he joins up with them and heads north – GET ALL THOSE HEROES HEADING NORTH! It really does seem like its the Red God’s lot who are getting their sh*t together while everyone else dawdles and is preoccupied by irrelevant politics.
Generally though im a bit dissatisfied with lots of the story arcs this season. Arya in Braavos – what was the point? Siege of Riverrun – how has this really affected major characters? Tyrion in Meeren – pointless chat. Danaerys – ok she’s got an even bigger army but now she needs even more ships than before.
The North has been strong mostly for Jon and Sansa.
But without Bran’s storyline – Tower of Joy, Hodor’s Door, His visions plus meeting Benjen – things would be quite weak? Bran has been the highlight of the whole season.
Hopefully 9 and 10 will not disappoint and correct our final assesment of the season.
Yes, its gallant that you have pledged your sword to defend the honor of D&D. I’m sure a knighthood is around the corner 🙂
Well she did get a change of clothes at last 😉
BranTheBlessed,
Thank you ??
Tell me about it. As someone who often reads footy blogs, its pretty common to find peeps who firmly affix those rose-tinted lenses when it comes to their teams . We call them Super fans 🙂
Mmm, Djawadi is hot! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Game_of_Thrones
According to the Wikipedia page above, I see that we should be getting the soundtrack anytime now, as Dee says. I think the digital release will most likely be just before the finale, as in seasons past. (The physical CD release comes several days to a month later.)
Season 1 – Music released 6/14 – Finale 6/19
Season 2 – Music released 6/19 – Finale 6/3
Season 3 – Music released 6/4 – Finale 6/9
Season 4 – Music released 6/10 – Finale 6/15
Season 5 – Music released 6/9 – Finale 6/14
Season 6 – Music released 6/? – Finale 6/26
So, except for Season 2, every previous digital release has been five days before the finale. So perhaps we’ll see it on the 21st?
ghost of winterfell,
I suppose that’s why there would have been value in staying with at least part of the dark scene. Even if you couldn’t see the action, the Waif could have said something like “Finally.. a challenge.”
I am surprised that so many are willing to accept video game rules in Game of Thrones, when the hallmark of the books and show has been ‘gritty and painful realism, with a touch of fantasy’. But if we can’t even agree on that.. if it’s now ok for “Player 1 to use Magic Health Potion and heal Serious Intestinal Damage” and then “Press Double Jump before rolling down stairs in Protective Crouch” on this show.. then I see little benefit in talking about the larger problems of the episode, and will just spend time picking nits to amuse myself.
At least there’s some fun in it.
BranTheBlessed,
I don’t have rose tinted lenses
I’m just more open minded , and probably easier to please then some
You should see my footy discussions. Definately no rose tinted lenses there
Edit: Speaking of – damn Ireland! Excellent goal!
Super underwhelming episode for me everywhere, but the riverlands (minus the Blackfish death). Everyone’s favorite sidekicks pal-around; even though it’s super cheesy, I frankly loved the Bronn/Pod moment. The scene between Jaime and Brienne was wonderfully done, the mixed emotions were written across both of their faces. Behind all of their propriety, they know each better than most anyone else knows them, so it’s great to see how well Nikolaj and Gwen pull it off.
I really enjoyed the scene between Edmure and Jaime. Edmure has all of his sister’s prejudice but has a lot more rationale than she ever did. Jaime is playing into the monster because he knows it’ll get the job done. Would Jaime actually catapult a baby? You know, I wouldn’t put it past him. But he’s switched roles. He’s Catelyn, I’m going to tell you this story and you have no choice but to listen because you’re the prisoner. And he does a much better job releasing his prisoner to end violence than she did to retrieve her daughters. Edmure is the epitome of house Tully: Family, Duty, Honor. He puts family first and honor last. It’s his duty to protect his subjects (hello feudalism) and even though it feels like a gutpunch, Edmure did the right thing, no needless bloodshed. Several reasons why I think the Blackfish’s story line was shite: ( 1 ) dude, how much do you really care about your ancestral home if you lived in the Vale for fuck knows how long as the Knight of the Gate? ( 2 ) Honestly, I get your the Blackfish, so you don’t follow the rules but it’s Family, Duty, Honor not Pride, Pride, Pride. ( 3 ) I felt like he should have gone North, that seems like an act more fitting of book!Blackfish. (4) And, finally, if you’re going to kill this man, don’t leave it off screen.
Loved the BWB and Sandor, it’s a fitting move. I was a bit shocked to see Beric there, but I pretty happy about it nontheless. As much as I’m pushing for LSH, I’m really cool if she doesn’t arrive. I want to see Sandor get redemption by fighting the real enemy. I’m so sick of the petty squabbles over land/titles/the iron throne (because they aren’t done as effectively as the books for obvious reasons), but we’ve got to start looking North for the real fight. Jon Snow knows it, which makes me a bit perturbed that Snowbowl is going down, it was always going to happen, but look at the big picture people. There might not be a Winterfell left if the Wall falls, get it together D&D. Although, I am happy that Cleganbowl aint going down because that would’ve been stupid. Like Sandor would fight for the faith militant, he may be reformed, but fuck the gods, get that man some chicken!
Ah, yes! Thank you for the clarification.
I think part of the problem with the fandom today is that most had that hype train barreling down the track and it just didn’t go the way anticipated so now, the frustration is coming out in nitpicking and personal statements. And it is on both sides, defending and what they consider attacking. It is just as easy to walk away as it is to continue to post snide remarks. Just sayin’. For those not involved it sure looks childish.
The theories around Arya last week were all over the place and what it turned out to be is exactly what we saw. No gimmicks no deception on the part of the writers. Looking for the grassy knoll in every single plot line … to me, takes away the enjoyment of just watching the show and allowing it to unfold as they intend it to. Be surprised once in a while.
This week did leave me sort of left with question rather than answers, but I was done with it before bedtime. I admire the passion of the fandom, sometimes it just goes too far to have half a thread doing nothing but defending their statements or arguing that they aren’t doing so.
It is only 10am where I am and already I could use a stiff drink!
By Wednesday this will all be over and that stupid hype train will be once again barreling down the same track.
The Blackfish in the show was never the Knight of the Gate. He appears to have lived at Riverrun his whole life.
Don’t follow much of International games tbh. Find them boring and lacking in quality compared to club football.
JCDavis,
Youre right. It is childish.
Im done with that, forever.
I do agree that part of the disappointment is due to overhype.
Are we sure the “rumour” Cersei asked about was regarding wildfire? She already knows it’s there and doesn’t need Qyburn to check that out. Could this be a reference to some not-throwaway line from 2-3 shows ago??
Could it be rumours about Sansa sightings in the North? The Queen of Thorns? The Nights’ Watch? Tyrion/Varys in Meereen?
BranTheBlessed,
Club is where its at for me also. 🙂
I do watch international football for big tournaments, such as the euros going on now.
On a random note, anyone ever watch reaction videos on youtube? Extremely entertaining….this one guy seanl captures reactions at some bar in Burlington (US) and they are fantastic.
Chuck,
Me, Me!!
3 places I watch every time. Burlington bar, Blind Wave and The Normies.
Watch couple of others, but they are preaty random.
southernkhaleesi,
Cersei knows about the “new” wildfire she had made before Blackwater, but that there were rumours of a much larger amount hidden throughout King’s Landing by the Mad King. Qyburn may have had his little birds wandering the myriad of tunnels looking for it. Just guessing.
An interview with Clive Russell where he gives his opinion why Blackfish chose not to run, and he was in accord with the decision to show the death offscreen:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-6-blackfish-dead-clive-russell-interview-a7079706.html
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I don’t feel forced to change my opinion. I have no reason to.
I said you are trying to force your opinion on others, not that I felt any need to change my mind.
I, being a book reader, watch the show with a somewhat of a newbie every week. I am his guide into Westeros and surrounding areas. I get to remind him of all the characters we see and what they mean to the story, what purpose they have, what they have done in the past. And, most importantly, what their names are. (No, Arya is not Ariell. She is not a red headed mermaid in a cartoon.)
We both thoroughly enjoyed the show. Yes, even the cheesy jokes scene.
Even though I have my spoilers and my speculations and my plot theories I know they don’t always run with what D & D have in mind. They know the end game, I don’t. If my idea of what should happen doesn’t, I refuse to be disappointed about it. It is still the best show that has ever been put on the small screen in the history of television.
Kings Landing
The instant sense of anger from Cersei when she realized Tommen had allowed the Faith Militant into the Red Keep was palatable. I found myself having a Jerry O’Connell moment in Mission to Mars looking at the screen repeating ‘say it, say it, say it’ waiting for those iconic words “I choose violence’. Did any one else happen to notice Lancel’s voice is much lower than it was? Did he go through a second puberty or something? I would have liked to have seen the Mountain take out a few more of the FMil but was happy enough with the look of ‘uh, gotta run’ on the faces of those who weren’t stupid enough to attack him.
We all pretty much saw that they would find a way to stop the trial by combat several shows back. But just weren’t sure how they would do it. They sure poked a hole in Cersei’s balloon but she relyed on it much too heavily for it to happen.
I am not concerned with what will happen to Tommen at this point. If he dies (gets killed) as in the prophecy, they can always bring him back as another character again. Maybe the Lord of Light next time. Remember when he was just a lowly squire known as Martyn Lannister?
Uncle Kevan is way too smug to survive much longer. And I was happy to avoid having to hear the drole tone of Pycelle’s voice and occasional gas pass.
Qyburn just has to be talking about Wildfire. At least I hope he is.
The Hound
Yes! He really is back. New and improved. Still the warrior but with the soft fuzzies in his heart. I couldn’t help but laugh at the way he just strolled right on up to the bandits and started whacking away. And yeah, if someone is going to offer you some last words you might want to come up with something a little more profound than ‘f_ you’ and ‘c**t’. But he was given a chance. Another laughing moment was when I realized he was stealing the boots from a still living Lem. Yeah, I’m horrible. I know it. I make no excuses.
I was pleasantly gobsmacked to see Beric D. make an appearance. I am looking forward to seeing the Hound traveling north with them. And, of course, hoping they just happen to run into a certain little lady with her needle along the way
Mereen
Yeah, the jokes were cheesy. Yeah, the pacing was slow. But you have to admit seeing Missandei getting a bit tipsy was somewhat funny. And Grey Worm’s face nearly broke in half when he actually cracked a smile. He may never recover from that. The downside of that scene for me was Daenerys’ entrance. She has saddle bags on Drogon now with her make up kit and hair brush? Just walks in with perfect hair after riding her dragon on over? Anyone who have ever been on a motorcycle knows that is not how her hair is going to look. Glad the scene was short. I’m hoping the storyline gets better the next time we see them all. Farewell Varys. I hope to see you again, but please not in Dorne. I really never want to see that place again.
Riverrun
Jaime is a twat. But at least a civil twat. Perhaps his time chained to a post and his road trip with Brienne did give him a bit of a new perspective. He did take the castle without bloodshed (except for BF). He got the job done quickly. He treated Brienne with respect. Now if only he could get Cersei out of his system he might become nearly decent.
I am glad they did not show Blackfish dieing on screen. Look at what they did with Barristan Selmy. Barristan the Bold. One of the greatest swordsman alive. A painter who only used the color red. Died in an alley with his throat cut from behind by a guy in a mask without so much as a thrust or a parry. A sad ending for a great warrior. At least with BF I can imagine he took out a few of the Lannisters and Freys with him before going down.
And BF was a hero to the end. He made sure Brienne and Pod escaped. This was not their fight. They had no cause to die there. He sent them back to protect his neice, whom he barely knew.
Braavos
Wow. Theon’s arrows couldn’t have shot down all those theories about Arya as fast as this episode did. Pet peeve. Her chase through the city. Not the show, but all the people complaining about it. Think people! Use that stuffing between your ears. MILK OF THE POPPY. We all know what comes from poppies, right? Other than more poppies. Narcotics. You don’t wake up from that sleep in 5 minutes. Remember Ned and Tryion getting milk of the poppy and each sleeping for about 3 days? I remember reading an article last week (and I know some of you read it also because it was mentioned in the posts) where the director of this episode tried to explain the difference in time here. He stated the events in Braavos was happening over the course of a few DAYS. While the events in Westeros was happening over the course of HOURS. This was to be able to match up the time line in coming events. I’m sorry I can’t remember which article I read this in. I just read so many articles over the last week to be able to recall which one it was.
Also, as asked in a post earlier in this thread, how do you expect them to show a fight in pitch black. Oh, let’s show a black screen with a sound track of a few grunts and some shuffling. That ought to do it. Really? Why do you have to see the fight? Isn’t the outcome good enough for you? Seeing the new face on the wall wasn’t Arya’s was a big thumbs up for me.
Also, I would like to point out, before all the complaints start, the blood trail at the HoB&W led straight to one of the wells. I am going to assume Arya took a little drink of healing waters there before continuing on to the hall of faces. Yes the blood trail continues. But that would be the blood from the face of the now faceless Waif.
I cheered when Arya reclaimed herself as we all knew she would. I look forward to her going home. And I honestly hoped they would close the show with her on a boat heading for Westeros as they once closed with her on a boat heading for Braavos. But maybe next episode.
I know this is TL;DR but I had fun writing it and that is all that counts to me. Cheers.
Mihnea,
Nice! Yeah I really get a kick out of them. I can’t imagine how I looked when I watched the red wedding or hardhome etc. And I’d rather not know!
Mihnea,
Oh they did. One review said they mentioned Cat’s name at least a dozen time. For some, what is hyped may never die. 🙂
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I have to agree with him here. The line was chilling, and Jaime’s reaction as well.
RG,
I really enjoyed hearing Sandor talk more as well. I’m not sure where they’re going with his story but I do hope he and Arya reunite. I think that would be a big moment for her emotionally as well.
On another note…
Jenny,
On a side note, I read that they did try to find a pig for Joffrey’s feast but could not in Croatia. I too am happy that they truncated Tyrion’s midlife crisis.
Jaynee D.,
“little drink of healing waters”
Say no more.
Well that’s not the intent. This is a public forum and anyone who writes their thoughts should expect them to be challenged (including myself). Everything’s up for debate, but let’s be honest very few change their opinion based on what some complete stranger writes here.
OK this is not the Houses of Parliament / Congress and it’s not how to combat global terrorism or something else contentious. It’s just a TV show. And jokes clearly don’t always comes across as such…
And the weird thing which you may find hardest to accept is I agree with you on some points…but not necessarily the arguments you use to support them.
Flayed Potatoes,
A lot of people are content with that it seems. And we’re the bad guys for not falling in line. How dare we employ critical thinking.
Markus Stark,
How dare other people enjoy something we hate!
jymion,
Ah, I missed that. Good eyes. Don’t get me wrong. I love Tyrion the character. And would not wish the long, drawn out journey from Pentos to Meereen in the books to be adapted in visual form. There were some highlights – the stone men – which they did include – I agree with those who say that essentially they were stalling until Dany returned. They really didn’t have time for a significant arc … other than the Sons of the Harpy arc … so there is some character development some would say and filler others would say. Don’t get me wrong I love a fun drunk as much as the rest, however, an unfunny one … 🙂
Leuf,
BranTheBlessed,
Um – about that candle.
Arya has been laid out in Lady Crane’s crib for a day or two. How long has that candle been burning?
Did she light it just so she could dramatically turn it off?
Okay I forgot to add something to my super long recap post last night 🙂
The guy who played Lemoncloak was kind of fun-and very memorable. He’s been on twitter just enjoying his moment–he really got into that hanging scene by being one of the only GOT characters who didn’t instantly die after being hung (it does happen in real life). Also he went on twitter last night or this morning with a small video of him saying the lines Lem said in the book to introduce LSH.
So yay for guys who enjoy the heck out of their experience, short-lived as it may be. “I’m just jazzed about being on the show”
Don’t know if somebody else made this point in the meantime, but you guys really crack me up regarding Dany’s hair burning. Let’s think about this for a second, accepting of course a person could magically be entirely fireproof.
Obviously Dany’s skin is entirely impervious to fire (which is nothing but extreme heat). And her organs are impervious to extreme heat. Her eyes, too, right? Eardrums? Platelets? Yes. Her hair is grown by her body. Why would that have to be different than all the rest? Seriously, people! Her hair burning off would actually make less sense than its persistence. Get with the fantasy logic here.
NOTE: If you disagree with me please don`t call me a troll.
– Mereen writing is so bad i feel embarased for D&D, … lets tell some jokes, lets play games, lets drink …
– Blackfish got built up as a badass only to die offscreen!?
– Waif got built up as a superkill only to die offscreen!?
– Arya does superjumps with her belly half open and stabbed???
– Arya and her pointless Essos storyline are thank god over.
– Edmure is a pussy, he gives Jamie “how can you live with yourself” speech and after that surrenders his family castle like a bi*ch.
– Kings Landing was ok, short and to the point.
This was a shit episode. SHIT.
3/10 – stars
By watching it i understood why season 7 will have only 7 episodes.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Couldn’t agree more. I love the people saying, “I’m dreading ep. 9,” it’s just pathetic at this point. The writing has been perfect this season. My only low point was Dany showing up like that. Served nothing but to re-introduce her so we prep for her ep. 10 tie-up.
The purpose of Arya losing her sight was Jaqen’s way of training her to fight using all of her remaining senses rather than fighting guided by hate. This was Arya’s advantage and we as viewers experience what she did, fighting in the dark.
Blackfish dying off screen is great too. What would have been the reason for him dying on screen? He chose not to protect his living family and died in his home, no need to reward the viewers for that.
TheKingWhoCares,
I’m happy someone spoke up for Kevan. This is I think this is one of the issues of bringing secondary characters who have POV chapters in the book to the screen. You don’t get to hear their thoughts, there is not enough time to develop scenes to exemplify the thoughts, etc. In my opinion, in the books, Kevan is really motivated by what’s best for the realm first and then the Lannisters. He has Tyrell allies on the small council. This is why
. But there is not enough time to develop the role so it is easier for him to be more one-dimensional or at least that is all I see.
Let the records indicate that I called it here (before the episode) that the hound will end up joining the BwB and there will be no Cleganebowl, lol.
But apart from that, it was a pretty weak episode. I know this is a fictional show with magic n shit but its really hard to believe that Arya recovered from 2 mortal abdominal stabbings in less than 12 hrs.
Really, looking at the comments, around 7 out of every 10 people have called the Arya scene as it is-underwhelming.
Re Daenerys’ arrival at Mereen: It might have been better served had she arrived prior to the invasion, when Tyrion and Varys were near the docks. But ofcourse it wouldn’t have the hollywood-esque feel to it, with the hero making a grand entrance to save the city under invasion. Another case where D&D go for drama over sense… and the viewers are left saying ‘wtf?’
Freyjoy,
I had the same though last night LOL
Pardon if this has already been covered, but:
I think I see where Jaime’s arc is going. In his conversation w/ Edmure, he talked about how he admired Catelyn because of how much she admired her children. I think Cersei’s release of the wildfire will take Tommen’s life and Jaime will no longer see Cersei as the loving mother he previously did and open his eyes. As the man who stopped the mad king from spreading it in the first place, he’ll see Cersei as he saw finally Aerys.
I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about Jaime’s arc, but personally, I love it. He has been so conflicted ever since first being escorted by Brienne and has developed one of the most interesting character dynamics in the entire series imo.
Assuming Cersei’s mad plan succeeds, I can’t wait to see how the valonqar reacts.
Jared,
This show would probably be a lot different if Jaime looked like that You Tube pause you have there all the time.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Troll. How dare you suggest D&D are anything short of utter perfection ? Don’t you know they are brilliant writers who produce perfect stories ? There was no imperative need to see Blackfish or the Waif die on screen, and hence it was the right choice not to show it.
Meereen was HILARIOUS. HAHAHA. Tyrion is so funny. D&D were insightful enough to make him a buffoon who specializes in awkwardness instead of the witty, cunning and skeptical character he used to be.
You’re nitpicking by pointing out that Arya had a massively severe gut wound that would have killed any other character. This is a minor detail. Not bad writing at all. Nope. Running and leaping with your gut sliced open is not a big deal.
The reason people like you disliked the episode is because you’re haters who WANT to dislike the show, and you were wrong to expect anything other than what you got, because this was a great episode.
How can you not bow down and accept the might of D&D ?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Agree on all counts . . . major plot elements were a disaster.
*Though Sandor stealing Lem’s boots while he was still alive and squirming was kind of excellent . . .
Sword of the Morning,
I never got the attraction to LS as a character. I’m much more interested in living Starks doling out revenge than in dead ones doing so.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Syrio Forel was a badass and he died off screen. Stannis was a way more important character than the Black Fish and he died off screen. Have we not seen this before? Why are people so in shock?
Jamie told Edmure he would basically smash his baby boy’s skull if Edmure didn’t cooperate. Let me ask you, what is more important to you? Your castle or your innocent son? What is more important: Having your line extinguished over a castle or surviving and having your son survive in the hopes that the future will find fortunes turned in favor of those who are now on the loosing side? You can’t fight every battle, you just have to stay alive to win the war.
Morgoth,
no truer words were ever said!
So GRRM’s consequence for not publishing his books in time is not seeing the show condense and change a few things and rushing to an ending, but the show desecrating the text by going all-Hollywood and squeezing out the sense and complexity while replacing the good stuff with made up dreck. D&D are using all their resources to tell a much more trivial and unsatisfying story. And there is no book to contradict it.
Danny,
Or not even win. Sometimes living is more important.
For me, the second episode ( Home ) remains the best of season 6.
Well this is a fantasy/drama show. I mean her flying in with Drogon on the docks would have been cool, I’ll admit it. Don’t see how her showing up when she did didn’t make any sense though. It made sense to me, that just happened to be when she showed up and there’s not much more to it. Personally I liked it, I didn’t expect her to show up and I thought her facial reaction was great – she looked pissed off.
Also I didn’t think it was that grand – she literally walked through a door, there was nothing showing her coming in on Drogon. A “Hollywood-Esqe hero grand entrance” would have been a view of her riding Drogon from the outside burning a bunch of those ships then Drogon comes and drops her off on the pyramid – at least IMO.
If she shows up on the docks, then its just “ohhhhh what perfect timing that she showed up right before Varys left.” People will find a way to nitpick anything in a “bad” episode.
Point is -it’s ridiculous that when a “bad” episode of this show happens, the nitpicks come out of the wood work for every little detail and all the sudden it’s bad writing. If this episode was on par with “The Door”, people still may dislike this scene but then its “oh I forgive it because the episode was so good” or some other cop-out (and this isn’t directed explicitly at you Bran, just a generalization of comments I’ve read).
BranTheBlessed,
Good question. I believe, but am not 100%, that in the books, Arya is told they will take her sight, her hearing, her ability to speak, etc., etc. before the training is done. Presumably they’ve done this to others to train them. Having said that, this is the show not the books. The FM appear to be different. If the Waif and the character with Jacqen’s face are representative of the FM, then I think people overpay for their services.
I am very happy to have Arya leave Braavos with her being Arya but being trained. Taken in isolation, I loved the scenes this episode. People have already said many times the two issues I had with the overall arc this season. Perhaps it was a directing choice to show a swipe, two stabs, and a twist as opposed to one swipe. Perhaps it shows Arya’s humanity that she lets down her guard enough to walk about Braavos without a seeming care in the world. It really doesn’t matter. That arc is over. Like Meereen, I believe it has ramifications in the long run, but to me much is filler for that infamous five year gap.
I had no problem with the resolution being offscreen. And you could see the end as soon as she put out the candle two episodes ago (and some may have as soon as she was blinded).
I have no problem with the BF being offscreen. He himself said something about not having been in a sword fight in a long time. I’m sure there are reasons for him not escaping (as he did in the books) but I am sorry to see him go.
I have no problem at all with no LSH. That ship sailed years ago.
I have no problem at all with no brothers Clegane clash – at least for now. I do believe that one will eventually come (at least in the books, if they are ever published). Sandor has unfinished business with Gregor.
RR went down much as it did in the books sans Brienne, Pod and Bronn. The lack of an inside look at Jamie’s thoughts (as in the books) may have made it more difficult to understand his conflict (and there is less conflict in the books as his relationship vis-a-vis book!Cersei is different. His scenes with Brienne – on one hand I loved them, but on the other, there was the “I’ll do anything for Cersei, but I’ll stare longingly with at you.”
Yes, I was overhyped on the “I choose violence.” Seems like the sparrows are not so eager to meet the new gods after all. Not surprising. I do think the obvious – wildfire is what Qyburn was referring to and not knowledge of the Tyrell plot against Joffrey or LF’s plots, etc. I do wonder who Glenna was writing to in the previous episode – someone suggested Randall Tarly and this makes sense. I’m not sure a raven could make it from KL to Meereen so Varys seems a stretch.
Sandor and the BwB – I am so interested in seeing where this goes. Yes they could meet up with Brienne and Pod who now need horses and supplies.
Markus Stark,
Markus, I’m sorry but you also do sound the same. You may not see it because it is you but you do sound the same as what you are criticizing. You belittle people who don’t think this episode was terribly written as not using logic and sense. How is that not the same as what others on the other side of the spectrum do from time to time. No difference.
Mayhaps your non de plume should be Markus Snark. Would that your cynical analysis were true. We are stuck with the story D&D choose to tell. If unpublished narrative were a graveyard, GRRM would be turning over in it.
For me* the order is “The Door”
then in no order “Oathbreaker”, “Book of the Stranger”, “The Broken Man”
followed by “Home and “Blood of My Blood”
At the bottom “The Red Woman” and “No-one”.
I’m not wise enough to know bad writing when I see it 😉 but “No-one” suffered for me because a couple of misjudged creative decisions which do seem to be trying to please fans over more logical storytelling. There – I criticise!
*Disclaimer: Nobody is under any obligation to change their views based on this
Grayven Reyne,
She had walked way too far in by that point. I initially thought the same thing but upon re-watching Arya was in a huge room. Good that she had those bags of money and kept that second bag so that she can rebook on a fast ship to the Twins.
*sigh* I guess not everyone is prepared yet to admit this whole Arya string was what it was. I’ve read a theory from someone now that the waif killed Arya and is wearing her face at the end and is going on an assassination mission in Westeros.
That doesn’t even make sense. Yeah, the waif cut her own face off to stick in the hall, is wearing Arya’s face over her faceless head and is pretending she’s Arya to Jaqen so she can go do her mission that Jaqen gave to her (waif) in the first place. Dumb. I’m sure that guy thinks his idea is good writing. 😉
An even half-dozen: http://transcripts.foreverdreaming.org/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=27550.
So many interesting comment and thanks for the round up, Sue The Fury–spot on!
For me, this was the weakest episode of the season……a real bore. Highlights: Pod and Bronn; Jamie and Brienne; and Arya finally killing the damn waif. Loved Cersi and her finally–‘I choose violence’.
Weak: the talk between Jamie and Edmure–parts of it were good, but I could hardly understand poor Edmure. And when Jamie said he’d ‘catapult his child”, would Edmure have really true feelings for a child #1. he didn’t’;t know he had and #2. had never laid eyes on? I didn’t believe it.
Weak: that Arya would be almost healed after a little nap with milk of the poppy….and could race through the streets of Bravos like a mad-woman. The waif–she reminded be of a terminator movie! I was LMAO.
Weak: the Blackfish not shone fighting and dying–that truly sucked and very lazy writing.
Weak: Tyrion and company and him trying to get Mel and Grey Worm drunk and tell stupid jokes; I forced myself to laugh. It was nice to see Grey Worm smile, though.
And…..Dany’s riding/flying in to save the day???? Drogon plopped her off, now I am hoping that he’s going to burn those ships….but wish we could have see something to that effect. Budget costs this episode , guys?–couldn’t afford to show us much.
I don’t care so much about the Hound but was happy to see the BWB and I was curious to see Thoros and Beric return: I am hoping they will join the North, Jon and Sansa and company and fight against Ramsey and perhaps the WW armies.
The best part, besides Arya’s speech that she’s ‘going home’ at the end, and Jamie and Brienne waving goodbye to each other, was to see the pure heartbreak on Cersi’s face: I actually feel sorry for her. I am a parent and I have lost a child, and there is no greater pain…..I feel for Cersi, as she now knows she has truly lost Tommen, her last son. (The witches prophecies are coming true.)
I have never liked Cersi–in fact, I have despised her for years. But her heartbreak, as a mother, I can relate to. And Lena’s acting is A+++.
All this said, I am looking forward to Battle of The Bastards and feel it will be a whopper. Please, please–I hope for Ramsey to get his due and die next week. Fingers crossed!
I’m not going to say anything at length because I see a lot of arguing going on and I don’t want to spoil the party so I’ll go sing Beatles For Sale songs. That made sense to me. I will say for me this was probably the worst episode of the whole series. Can’t think of another where I was literally wanting it to be over. I always have the opposite reaction. More more more! But this was, to me, very very bad. The lowlight being the Tyrion joke scene. Please stop this. And in most of the ways already dissected sooo moving on…
I am worried about Jon still being all pensive and sullen for the Bastard Battle. I want him to be the go to guy and take charge of this massive army that’s outnumbered by a more massive one and just kick ass. But all we saw was literal hand wringing and sadness or fear from him. I don’t care for it one bit! But it makes me wonder if the Battle is not going to be positive for the good guys like I imagined it would be all season. That. Will. Suck.
If there is one thing upon which we can all depend, it is that whatever happens in the show, someone will concoct a theory that it didn’t just really happen.
In addition to the incomplete training by the FM, Arya has received plenty of other training: Syrio’s aphorisms, the travel with Yoren and co., the BwB, the Hound. Even though she has not received the complete FM education you mention in your post, Arya has developed life skills and knowledge as she ages through her childhood. She (and the viewer) is ready to move on.
That was always the fear though wasn’t it? How D&D might script the show without that skeletal structure set in place by GRRM. But lets be frank, the first episodes of this season smashed these doubts out the water. There’s always been issues of minor inconsistencies but its becoming more pronounced in the last couple episodes.
Markus Stark,
Sean C.,
Yes, you both are right on this and as I suggested last night. Brienne and Pod had to either go through Moat Cailin or around it. They had to go south of the Twins.
If LF was still there they should have known. If he was going on the KR which presumably they were, they had to go around him. The same will be true on the BwB, although at this point LF should be well up the KR.
If Brienne was sending a raven (I agree I don’t see how) to Sansa, then this should be reported.
An interesting point is that White Harbor is closer to WF than CB.
At this point, I’m trying to accept that part of the story is that geography and time lines are amorphous
Darkrobin,
I think it is fairly likely that the Waif could make it to the door.. with unarmed fighting reflexes at pure ninja level and a sudden headstart towards the destination, against a person who may have some advanced ability to fight in the dark but can’t actually SEE in the dark.
And even with the unlikely event that a blind stab landed, it wouldn’t necessarily stop the Waif. Arya was sliced and stabbed, including one “finishing” move of a knife twist.. and ran halfway across Braavos.
Holy shit, Ravens?!? THATS the nitpick that some are going with?
Raven communication has been explained in the books, but have they ever explained the method on the show?
Is it not possible that Brienne knows where Sansa might be, or have been recently (through word of mouth)? Is it not possible that she is using Castle Black as a destination, whereupon they can then forward the message to Sansa wherever she is? We know she didn’t want to send a raven to Riverrun, but Castle Black seems a likely hub for Team Stark communications. Are any of these possibilities so outlandish?
And if these scenarios are plausible, why are D&D beholden to use valuable minutes of screen time to spell it out for us?
They’re not. Its television, not a 1,000 page novel. You as a viewer will be asked to trust that some things happen off-screen. If you can’t buy into that, how have you made it six seasons into this story?
[ spoiler ] I’m a die hard Stone harder so I’ve yelled in anger at the series regarding the possible ommitance of LSH. But on second watching this episode really hit me in a good way as well.
The scene between Arya and the Waif were fantastic: Arya realizes that she can trust the Waif and eases in a sleep (long not had probably). As a viewer we realize this is the one night in years somebody really took care of her. Makes you wonder: it would definetely break her to see her mother, a creature of the Lord of Light filled with hatred. Maybe better this way…
Loved the interactions between Jaime and Brienne.
But damn, D & D, why the constant name dropping. We know who Catelyn Stark is!!! Or? …. 😉 [ /spoiler ]
That’s not so difficult to understand and with no magic involved. Birds are pretty intelligent animals and will find their way across vast distances from whence they came. Homing pigeons for example.
I would presume in GoT, the ravens kept by the maesters originally came from various places and although kept together at the various castles, etc around Westeros, when released will fly back to the places they originally came from?
Just my pennies worth… caw, caw 🙂
BranTheBlessed,
I saw all of those things. And the very end with the Waif’s face on the stone pillar and her declaring she is Arya Stark was great.
Just finished watching the episode with 5 unsullied friends. They all liked it. 1 complained that Tommen denied him a awesome fight and wanted to see the Mountain kick some more ass.
Yeah, look , I completely understand its unreasonable, to expect in a TV show, the level of fleshing out the characters are afforded in a book, on account of the constraints in time and money. Having said that, a bit of sense, continuity and consistency would be appreciated. I’m sorry but Arya’s Braavos storyline had none of the three. Its a complete mess culminating in a forgettable climax.
I take your point ( see what I did there?) but
In a world where an ethereal shadow can kill a man with the efficiency of a drone strike, I’m prepared to accept that Arya could have won that encounter 😉
I don’t think so, the eyebrows are all wrong.
http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/06/13/04/arya-stark.jpg
AngryCrows,
Bravo, Ser!
You nailed it in this comment — my major gripes as well as some I didn’t know I had.
Markus Stark,
And are the Lannister and Freys happy to let the Tullys send out ravens to the Mallister and other house (I think it was Blackwoods)?
Turns out Bronn isn’t as good a siege commander as Jamie thought.
Minor gripe compared to others this series. Some, like Euron and his 100 men than somehow outvoted the rest of his army, building 1000 ships out of rocks, are actually so ridiculously bad that I don’t mind them.
It’s just strange that D&D seem to think they need to dumb things down and resort to Hollywood storytelling when GOT is clearly attracting new viewers anyway. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it!
The Hound is the man. Comedy and action…glad he’s back!
OT: Go Germany!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I can try to “shed some light on the situation” (I see what you did there, and raise you).. in the dark, knife against Needle, the outcome in the show is pretty reasonable.
I think the most likely reason the Waif didn’t open the door is that she was pretty used to beating up Arya and didn’t want to back down. It may never have occurred to her.. we are never given an indication that the Waif is a master strategist, certainly. But it was a fatal mistake, and going to the door instead was about an 80/20 proposition.
I see the responses got mixed up somehow. 😛
Anyway, I agree with you on the Arya storyline – it is very messy and her responding so quickly from those wounds is pretty weird. Does it make the episode worse for me? Yes. But does it make it the worst writing I’ve ever seen? No. And in all honesty I don’t think this is the last we’ve seen of Jaqen. I don’t think that story is over yet with Arya. It seemed like he was happy with what Arya did. So, it’s a wait and see until I decide if Braavos was really pointless for her.
The rest was just a rant, especially after I saw a comment complaining about Dany’s hair and Brienne sending a raven to Sansa. Because if EP9 turns out to be like a 9.4/10 and that raven Brienne sent happens to find Sansa. Then that plot point is forgiven because the episode is so good. But if it’s bad then it’s D&D are hacks, idiots, don’t know how to write a story, etc.
Just disappointing to see people be so close minded and actually dock an episode because of such little details.
Grayven Reyne,
Well yes look at Oberyn who had The Mountain completely at his mercy for the death blow but in his thirst for a confession miscalculated and in a flash the situation was reversed. People can do odd things when the adrenaline is flowing.
I wonder if Sandor’s fate is to capture Brienne returning to the North and fulfill the book plans for Brienne? Regardless, if the BWB are headed north a struggle with the WW seems to be foretold. Could Beric revive a fallen Sandor and leave him as leader of the BWB?
RJ,
Haven’t finished reading all the comments yet, but this has to be a nominee for most ludicrous comment of the day!
Why would ANY recapper keep their thoughts out of their recap? That would be utterly pointless, and just a list of things that happened in a given episode.
Not to mention it’s her site, so of course she will include her own thoughts.
This is mind boggling!
brilliant
The episode was nothing special to me, not bad or outstanding just good. I did love the Edmure/Jaime scene and Brienne/Jaime scenes. I have a feeling Jaime is going to have to make a final choice between Brienne and Cersei, perhaps the BwB captures her and demands Jaime surrender to them, while Cersei as in the books sends for his help.
The sudden appearance of both the Volantis fleet and Dany was lazy writing, no build up. It takes hours for an older style sailing ship to travel from the horizon to within catapult range, in which case D&D are insulting the intelligence of the viewer, and since the majority of GoT viewers are college grads, it’s not saying much for their respecting the audience.
I was worried that D&D were rushing to conclusion and the majority of scenes in the last three episodes seem to support this, so to D&D, slow the ship down please and give us the quality were are use too.
Let throw out two story plots that need to be resolved. There was to have been one more season to rap up the storylines. D & D were approached by HBO and had their arms twisted into breaking Season 6 into two seasons. They are not going to rethink their plan for 7 seasons. They are tired of the show and can’t wait to end it. Tacking on an episode apiece is not going to add anything to this show. It appears that Yara and Theon will be Ubering Dany and Company back to Westeros. In doing so, they earn the gratitude of Dany, who loans part of her army to take the Iron Isles while they are completing the first ship. For all we know this Kingsmoot storyline might have been tacked on to fulfill a call for one more season. Varys arrives at Dorne and is not happy with what he finds there. He enlists the little birdies in routing rulers of Dorne. Maybe Varys stays on as ruler because the present company are not worthwhile. The two room flats of the seven have been cleaned up for the replacement series at the end of Season 8.
This may be a stupid question, but who is “technically” in line for the Iron Throne if Tommen dies?
While several like Dany or even Gendry may have a legit claim (a la Stannis), do we know who is the named heir?
I’m not familiar enough with Westeros rules of succession. Would Queen Margaery take over? Cercei didn’t, but then again there was already a male heir.
Yes. Of all times to degrade the product when viewership and reputation are ascending!
Hm truth be told I liked the ep. I have long since stopped to expect anything from the show in a good or bad way. Looking forward to every one nonetheless.
Is it weird that i had tears in my eyes when Tyrion and Varys said goodbye?
And we DID get that infamous Trebuchet line from Jaime
speaking of which his constants turns are a bit dizzing, likely even for himself. telling edmure that he loves cers but you could see his other self coming through as soon as brienne was around. I still hope though he won’t be in KL when cers goes nuts. better for everybody involved
hmm Arya well I did expect it to show down like this. first a blind headlong flight and then only after se fell and saw she was bleeding she got her bearings and the idea with needle.
The posters here seem to be concerned that the degradation is becoming more and more pronounced. If that trend continues, the whole effort is trashed. If D&D think huge combat scenes and flying dragon fire make up for dumbing down and insulting the intelligence of viewers, they are catering to only a part of the fans. The other fans will diss mightily.
Who was the actor that got killed first by the hound? The young one with the black hair and beard. The one who got his butt fondled. Was he on the show before?
Maester Murks,
That was Steve Love, a GoT fan and impressionist you’ve probably seen around.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNBRe1r8AnCLhfnnl5pFFCg
https://twitter.com/drstevelove
Sue the Fury,
Thanks! I knew I had seen him before!
I don’t see how they could realistically add her to the show at this point. Anything after the S4 finale was a pipe dream. Hearing that GRRM recently confirmed she’s not in the show and the fact that MF was cast in some new Starz show were the first 2 hints. Seeing Beric last night just sealed the deal. I graciously admit there is not a snowball’s chance in hell we see her in the series and anyone still riding that train is being foolishly obstinate.
They did mention her – whether as Lady Catelyn, your sister, your niece whathaveyou – a ridiculous amount of times in the episode last night. I do think they like messing with people, trolling if you will.
Just out of curiousity, why didn’t Tommen strip the Mountain of his white cloak? He stripped Jamie of his and he didn’t kill any of the faith militant. Stripping the Mountain of his white cloak effectively strips Cersei of her ‘ace in the hole’, since she is required (book only?) to have a kingsgaurd fight for her. Outlawing trial by combat is the worst.
Seven blessings bro
I liked this episode, even if it was a bit of a step down from last week. The Hound returning was great, the shot of Meereen under attack looked really fantastic, and Bronn and Podrick together were so wonderful.
I did find the Blackfish’s off-screen death to be tremendously disappointing, however, especially since Clive Russell put so much menace in every word.
As Sue noted, there was a bit of messiness in the narrative to be quite honest, as it looked like they were trying to fit in everything in time for the season finale, but I am looking tremendously forward to next week. https://goo.gl/NCt9mo
I don’t have a problem with the Masters’ ships arriving quickly. It doesn’t change much for the viewer. They’d just be further away in the shot that Tyrion and Missandei go outside. Not quite as cool to look at either. They’d also obviously been in the bay and attacking for quite a while before Daenerys showed as it was night and there were fires all over the city. Last we saw of her was two episodes back when Daario told her they were “a week at best” from Meereen so her khalasar should be very close. I think it was more enjoyable to see her surprise entry than watch her the whole way.
The things I pick out over those are what or whom did they think landed on the pyramid if not Daenerys? The Great Pyramid is 800′ tall and last I heard there’s only one person flying around out there. The second thing is that it doesn’t appear like they’re in much danger from the ships. The trebuchet can only throw about half way up and it’s kind of a peckin’ on the solid stone. Third, Meereen supposedly has no long range defensive capabilities? They just have to sit and get pelted?
She doesn’t need to. We see Arya defeat her while she is still blind at the end of her training montage. Arya also didn’t learn water dancing from the faceless men. She learned it from Syrio. She had no reason to think the Waif had any sword fighting experience.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
I’ve seen people make a case for Dany as Baratheons and Targaryens have intermarried. On the other hand, I’ve seen people make a case for Jamie as the Lannisters and Baratheons have intermarried in the past. I’m sure there are genealogical tables somewhere that map that all out, at least book-wise.
I think at this point it may be pretty much anyone who can take it. I don’t think that there is a succession plan in place, at least we have not been told of it.
Ginevra,
Thanks for the info! Waiting impatiently… (Almost think music is the best thing about the season)
Clob,
I don’t recall them mentioning on the show, but I seem to recall in the books that before Dany first arrived the Meereenese had burned down all the olive and other trees close to the city so that there was no wood available for them to build trebuchets, etc. They broke down the 3 ships they had and made the ram and then there was the trip through the sewer. I don’t think they had time to really build offensive capability by the time the Yunkai and allies arrived so what GW said made sense. There was no way to project force outside the city.
I thought shooting the fire shots from the ships made great visuals. Hope they had plenty of buckets of water nearby on the decks. Looked like sparks were flying.
Hello everybody and welcome to another review from Lord Parramandas. First, I want to say that I’m delighted that despite all the exams I have this week, I managed to get enough energy to write this review This time I will also touch some of the book speculation/possible spoilers.
Before I actually begin breaking down the episode, I want to say that I’m really surprised about the negative reaction to this episode on this thread because I really liked this episode compared to previous two. But still, everyone has their own opinion and if their review is supported by arguments, I have no intention of objecting. So, let us begin:
King’s Landing: “I choose violence” – the sentence we heard several times in the trailer. I always thought this will mean the end of the Sparrows but sadly, it was not the case. But on the other hand, this was the first sparrow casuality since they came to power. So I think this was “The beginning of the end” of them. Moving on, Cersei is not allowed to be on the podium and Tommen officially forbade trials by combat and I can actually understand him. A noble person can commit a serious crime but gets away with it if they have an experienced fighter. So there goes all the speculation who will be ser Gregor’s opponent. Not Lancel, not Sandor, nobody! I really wonder if ser Gregor attacking one of the Sparrows was the final straw for it. And then, there is this “rumor” and I’m 90% sure what it is about… “Burn them all!”
Riverrun: Contray to many opinions on this thread, I think the Riverrun material was handed very well, considering that it is far from my favorite storyline in the book. Jaime again became an ass. I really have to praise Tobias Menzies’s performance as lord Edmure in this episode and also Nikolaj Coster Waldau’s performance as ser Jaime. “I’m going to get your child and launch it over the wall with a catapult” – I know that ser Jaime was acting in the book but considering how pissed he was on TV, he may have really intended to do that. Sadly, this was the last episode for Blackfish (Clive Russel). I can honestly say that I wasn’t particulary impressed by his character in season 3 but in this episode, his performance basically sold me. He stayed true to his character and went down like he supposed to. His decision really reminded me of Brutus in Rome (played by Tobias Menzies), when his army got destroyed and just when the soldiers are about to capture him, he starts fighting and basically forces them to kill him. Yes, it’s a pity we haven’t seen Clive Russel doing that but on the other hand, his final moments were enough for me. I only wished that he would have taken Black Walder with him but apparently we will have to wait. And of course, Jaime waving to Brienne as she leaves Riverrun – I feel that’s the last time they saw each other.
Meereen: Again, this storyline seems to get much hate and I can admit that I wasn’t a fan of Tyrion’s scenes so far, save the one with Kinvara and the meeting with the noblemen. But this time, me and my brother (who is show-only watcher) literally laughed during the “tell the joke” scene but not because of the jokes being funny, but because of whole exposition and Grey Worm’s lines, which were hillarious: “Aren’t the Starks and the Lannisters enemies?” “That’s the worst joke I’ve ever heard” “I was joking” – and it was nice to see Missandei and Grey Worm laugh for the first time in the series. Since season 1, I really wanted to hear what happened when Tyrion brought a honeycomb and jackass in the brothel, but we were interrupted again, this time by the fleet. Not the Greyjoy fleet, but the one from Volantis and Yunkai. The city is scr*wed and I wanted to remind Tyrion that there are two dragons in the dungeons but thenDaenerys arrived. Her arrival is my only complain about Meereen in this episode but apparently the Siege of Meereen will be resolved very quickly. I was a bit surprised that we haven’t seen the Sons of the Harpy yet…
Braavos: All the speculation went down the drain… It was really Arya who foolishly wandered through Braavos and she really was stabbed in the gut. No Jaqen H’Gharr, no pig’s blood… But it made sense for her to seek help from Lady Crane. I recently wandered to GoT Wikia and I noticed a note, that these events may have not happened in a single day. That would actually explain Arya recovering from the wounds. But the Waif eventually found her and finished the job that Arya was supposed to do in the first place (I can also say that the man’s face she was wearing was really creepy). Then the intense chase started and the conflict that was building since the beginning of this season finally reached the climax. I was initially worried how will Arya be able to defeat the Waif without looking too unrealistic, considering that the Waif was way more powerful than her but the answer was simple – by turning off the lights. If I cite Ra’s Al Ghul from Batman Begins: “You’ve never learned to mind your surrounding”. My only grip with the scene was why was Jaqen H’Gharr still willing to accept Arya among the Faceless, considering how many rules she broke. And now he will just let her go with all the secrets she learned from them? At this point, I really have to praise Faye Marsay for her performance as the Waif. I never found the character really interesting in the books, but her interpretation brought the character into a complete new light. I really liked that there was more focus on her and not on Jaqen this season. And her face is so indefinite… I had no idea how old the actress is.
Sandor Clegane: I knew that Thoros was returning but Beric was a complete surprise. Lem and his band were hanged by them, so the Brotherhoos did not become more violent in general, but they still help the poor and broken ones. All the theories about a certain lady being in charge were proven wrong and now, considering that several years have passed, I doubt it even more that she will ever appear (not that I want her to). And yes, Sandor Clegane really is changed.
So that concludes my review for this episode. Now the lord must pass his verdict which would be a middle 9. I will place this episode on rank 22 between “The Wolf and the Lion” (rank 23) and “A Golden Crown” (rank 21). This season has a great potential of surpassing season 4 in terms of ratings, considering that it currently has no 7s, three 8s, two 9s and three 10s (season 4 has one 7, three 8s, one 9 and five 10s).
That will be all for today. Two exams are still waiting me and I hope I will manage to visit this site as much as possible. Lord Parramandas wishes you a nice and stress-free week.
Darkrobin,
Hmm checking up the ancestry it is as follows: Tommen>Dany>Jaime or if RLJ the Tommen>Jon>Dany>Jaime that is if RL married
The Baratheons take their claim on the throne to Robert’s paternal grandmother who was a Targaryen (Sister to Aegon V) The Lannisters have intermarried to the baratheons more than five gen past. they also hve intermarried with the Targs but much much earlier as well. so the correct order of inheritance would be: Baratheon> Targ>Lannister
Should Tommen die and Dany not yet arrive in Westeros regency would likely pass to Kevan or Jaime.
I don’t remember it being written that she HAD to use a kingsguard for trial by combat. ? Every other time it’s been a choice of anyone. Gregor wasn’t a kingsguard when he fought the Viper for instance.
Darkrobin,
Well *IF* Margaery was pregnant she would be Queen Regent, at least that is how it worked in real history, until the child comes of age. That may be why the High Sparrow was so keen on finding out about her sex life, a bit of insurance if Tommen doesn’t work out.
Laura,
Theories of Stoneheart:
1. Maybe Arya will arrive to Westeros and die shortly after, hopefully after killing Walder Frey. I can totally see The Hound requesting Thoros to bring her back and Beric giving her the kiss of fire.
2. The Blackfish will be Lord Stoneheart. He is brought back and kills all the Freys … please. Walder Frey can’t survive, right???? right??? Come on.
3. The Brotherhood is going North … Maybe they arrive to Winterfell. Melissandre tried to bring back Rickon, she couldn’t. Thoros tried and also couldn’t. Beric gives Rickon an awkward kiss of light. It sounds creepy, actually.
4. The same as above but with Sansa.
Lady Stoneheart with Catelyn won’t happen, but something similar could happen. Most likely not, we already have both Jon and Beric.
Adam,
Yeah Waif kicked her asd with a Staff woth her hands while both able 2 see
Water dancing is more like fencing, different footwork etc so Arya did fully elicit wjatever advantage she could
That said in a city of Braavosi with duellers everywhere some FM would learn, though not to skill level of committed swordsmen, they’d kill yjem with poison lr poison darts etc
Sam,
As a big Dany stan I would RIOT!!
Because he’s so fricking good at the impressions, they had to kill him! 😉 Poor Steve. I didn’t even realize it was him until I saw the credits, and then I’m like “No way!!!!!!!” 😀
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
True.
Maybe Varys received the letter Olenna wrote in episode 7…
Lord Parramandas,
Great review
Thanks for sharing
Why would anyone make the assumption that someone senior to them in an organization and who has been around longer has not received training that they themselves had?
Clob,
I don’t either but I do remember in the books (not sure about the show) that Cersei was insistent that Kevan name Gregor the Undead to the KG for that reason. Maybe that was book only.
Why would this be a stupid question? The show is called Game of Thrones and yet it is not brought up who will be winning in the likely event of Tommen’s death.
My guess is Cersei burns Sept with Tommen in it (accidentally, she’s not that mad yet).
As for who will take charge of what’s left of the city? I can’t see Dany making it in time but Jamie and his army are nearby so maybe we get Twin magic running the show, Cersei alone and Jamie heads off like always? Or perhaps some Mad Queenslaying? Anyone’s guess – but all roads lead north soon, including Jamie’s, so the prickly throne will probably be Dany’s for the taking when she arrives with her (please please let us see Tyrion gloat over Cersei when he is named Lord of the Casterly Rock).
Although she too, like all the other characters that can even remotely be considered ‘decent’, will soon have to head North to burn some WW ass. After all, there are only 9-15 episodes left.
*sadface*
Dee Stark,
Funny thing, I thought that today I will have the least motivation to write a review due to stress and constant pressure I’m exposed to these days. But because of my positive reaction to this episode, I actually managed to write the longest one to date!
Lord Parramandas,
I’m glad to hear that. It can be tough during exams! Hope to get one next week ?
Dee Stark,
Don’t worry. By next week, the main batch of the exams will already be over (if I pass them).
I haven’t seen anyone talking about this, but then I haven’t checked all 573 email notices of comments either (I got most though! Yeesh):
The ‘breath’over in the trailer for Episode 9. Does this remind anyone else of the beginning of Episode 3? Jon’s heavy breathing upon his resurrection and realization that he is alive. Cut to Episode 9 – does the breathing in the trailer just symbolize anticipation, nerves, steeling oneself for battle? Or could it also represent Jon’s TRUE resurrection – finding the will to fight and live again that has seemed lacking this season? Just my stupid thoughts.
Jaqen’s last test to Arya was telling her that she was finally No One. Her answer, which was correct, was that she was Arya Stark of Winterfell, and she’s going home. He smiled because she passed.
Jaqen has always known Arya would be no FM, but took the interest in her from the first (reasons still unclear with speculation bouncing around). Arya’s true test was not to prove that she was No One, but to prove that she was definitively and unrepentantly Arya, and that’s what she needs to be.
Seasons denying she was Arya, being beaten for denying she was Arya, finally becoming strong enough to say directly and without illusion that she IS Arya and not the No One that she half-wanted to be, due to a need to be Someone.
Arya can fight blind/dark. She can change faces. She can be invisible, patient, quick, calculating, crafty. She knows poisons and potions, illusions. She can read people, she can empathize. She has far more knowledge and skill than she arrived at the HoBW with. And that was the point.
Did anyone notice how damn beautiful she was, standing there with Needle, chin up and looking Jaqen in the eye? Superficial of me, maybe. But she knows who she is now. No little orphan Arya anymore.
Who’s to say she didn’t tuck a certain Lady Crane’s face in her pocket? Perhaps she’ll become an actress after all. 🙂
Clob,
The King and Queen have to choose someone from the Kingsguard.. but Cersei would be (err, have been) free to choose anyone.
That would make a lot of sense, that’s why I’d like to believe something like that too. But then Jaqen has to reappear, and we have to get to know his real motivation somehow and what that means for Arya.
The problem with this is, it’s entirely possible that the whole Arya FM plot is really what it seems on the surface. Jaqen noticed some talent in a random girl he met and wanted to train her to be an assassin in his little cult. That’s possible, I don’t like the plot hole talk, but it’s just a relatively chlichee fantasy story, and it’s unclear how it fits the character of Arya, other then to give her a two season training montage and to remind her that she really does want revenge.
Lord Parramandas,
You will!
You think Kevan was misogynistic, Sue? He seems to get along well with Olenna. I thought he really, really doesn’t like Cersai – with good reason.
Anon,
That is not how misogyny works. Getting along with one woman doesn’t mean you’re absolved of it. You can dislike a woman for valid reasons, but still be disgusting in other ways- like telling a woman her place is in the gallery with the other ladies, in a scornful tone.
thurg00d420,
So true. Why don’t people see this as a possibility. LSH is definitely not off the table! They have just changed the manner in which she comes back – Beric does not necessarily have to die to bring her back.
Maaan.. If I read all these comments, I might get done by Sunday…might.
Sue the Fury,
Hmmm. Well, we have a sample size of two women who we’ve seen him interact with. With Cersai, he’s hostile; with Olenna, he’s cooperative.
Is it unacceptable for a man to simply dislike a particular woman, the same way he might dislike a particular man? Or, should all men be courteous and polite to all women, always?
I didn’t see that as misogynistic, I saw that more as “You are no longer in charge here.” I guess I just didn’t get the same impression.
This episode was good, I don’t get the criticism.
1) The Blackfish is not a major character, there’s no need to see his death. The Blackfish was a political problem for Jaime and the Frey, a potential ally to Brienne (and Jon/Sansa), and a reason for a meeting between several main characters. That’s all. He is not a main character himself, I see no problem in an off screen death, exactly like Syrio.
2) The same for the Waif. And I would add that the fact that we didn’t know what happened until we saw her face in the hall added some suspense, and it was well done. A lot of things could have happened (like Arya’s face on the wall, or a message by Arya, or Arya trying to kill Jaquen).
3) Arya was stabbed, yeah, so what? We don’t know how much time she healed in the home of the actress. Maybe it took 1 week. And we saw her bleeding and suffering when she flew in the streets for the second time, it’s not as if she was perfectly fine.
4) It baffles me that so many people don’t understand the meaning of the two Tyrion awkward speeches with Missandei and Grey Worm. Some say it’s pointless and bad writing? Really? He’s a drunken despised dwarf lost in the middle of a foreign continent, in a city at war and surrounded by two eunuchs and a former slave. How could he be fine? Yes these two speeches feel clumsy and out of place because it is exactly what it is. He’s lost, he’s far from home and exactly like Arya, he doesn’t belong her. That’s the point!
On the first watch I was a bit disappointed. Things didn’t happen as I expected. Plots didn’t advance as much as I wanted. Mistakes such as the fatal looking, but not, injuries bugged me. I thought the episode was about a 5 or 6.
On second watch, I loved it. I already knew how the plot played out so I paid much more attention to the character interactions, dialogue, facial expressions and the story as opposed to the plot.
People make mistakes, waste their time pursuing things they really don’t want. They miss opportunities, make things worse for themselves. They turn their back on redemption and go back to the things that destroy them. They forsake their honor or family. They do illogical things. These are the things real people do and we rarely see it happen on tv or movies or in books, much less fantasy. It is frustrating, annoying and satisfying all at the same time. This is one reason GRRM is such a good writer and why his books and the show is so popular.
I give this episode a 8.5
Definitely one of the weakest episodes of the season.
Arya’s storyline in Braavos should have lasted ONE season, not two. It’s been so incredbly boring, I hated the Waif… and we didn’t even get the satisfaction of watching their final battle! Seriously, this storyline sucked.
But even worse is Tyrion’s storyline this year. Another horrible scene of him drinking with Grey Worm and Missandei. Ugh… Terrible dialogue, pointless scenes… and Grey Worm sounds corny and fake now that he speaks decent English. I’ve just hated everything about Tyrion this year.
Things I’m looking forward too…
1) The eventual meeting and conversation between Beric Dondarrion and Jon Snow
2) The eventual meeting and conversation between Melisandre and Thoros of Myr
3) The eventual meeting and conversation between Arya and the Hound.
4) The eventual meeting and conversation between Wun Wun and lot’s of Bolton’s
ArgonathofBraavos,
I agree. There is just so many actions scenes to do when time is barely enough for the production. Visual-wise, I’d rather not actually see the Blackfish die and just imagine how it might have happened. About No one bowl, it was a good alternative between spending much on showing the actual fight, or cutting it off when the Waif enters the dark room. At least they showed Arya chose to fight in the dark.
Still the episode ws kind of average for me.
Sue the Fury,
Off the topic but I was thinking arya on her way home lands in white harbor and brings the maderlays with her to winterfell for the battle so we’d get the wildlings attacking from the north and then the maderlays on the flank
With the battle in Meereen, I’m worried about Theon. The Iron Fleet must arrive and join the battle. I hope he doesn’t die. I want him to meet Tyrion again and all the unsullied.
Mag,
Agreed, I think Theon needs some kindred souls to get him back in the game…
Do we think Tyrion has heard of Sansa’s marriage? Wonder if he’ll ask Theon about her and what Theon will say. I wonder if Podrick will come up. Looking forward to this meeting.
Leuf said:
I couldn’t enjoy her “I’m Arya Stark” line because of Jaqen’s line right before it.
So much of Arya’s training isn’t about fighting because the Faceless Men’s primary weapons aren’t fighting but information and deception. And yet we get to the end and Jaqen has no idea wtf is going on with anything. He doesn’t see or doesn’t care that the Waif had a personal vendetta with Arya, doesn’t follow his orders, and absolutely sucks at her job. He’s got no idea what’s going on with Arya.”
From the off, Jaqen has been an enigma. I always felt that Jaqen was not surprised at anything she did because she had been clever enough to manipulate him by nearly causing his death (Season 2). It was clear she served the god of Death but was undisciplined. He gave her 3 deaths, a coin, and a password knowing that she’d end up in Braavos and get the training she’d need to survive and achieve her goals. The perseverance, planning, discipline, and fortitude she showed in bringing down a cunning, experienced, and strong FM showed she had achieved what she needed. By finally calling her “no one” he was giving her a diploma and permission to leave. Her response could be none other than to declare her name and turn homewards. His fleeting smile as she does this confirms his approval. It’s almost as if she received the HOB&W University personalised education. And frankly, it’s not that different from Three-eyed Raven singling out Bran, who also was destined for his education.
Much of the carping about the episode stems from the timing of her semi-recovery. If the writers had made a minor effort in the screenplay (very easy to do) to hint at the passage of a few weeks time, her survival and chase would have been more plausible. Frankly, once I suspended medical disbelief, I didn’t care. Maisie sold it as always. Apparently, Arya had planned the whole thing to trap the Waif in the one place where she could be physically defeated AND Arya would give the FM a face, which she owed them. It’s a stretch that she counted on recoverable wounds, but Starks have remarkable track record in that–Jon, Benjen and Bran should all be dead. She only knows about Bran, but she’s always been physically fearless.
But I agree with Ghost’s Lunch–all through the Braavos arc D&D have denied Arya the magic she possesses in the books–warging and Wolf dreams. And that infuriates me.
This is interesting if you have looked at my comments you will see iam no fan of what they are doing with meereen..
But I want to see how you are going to justify what tyrion doing in the books ( riding pigs.,serving yellow whale and having conversation with penny ) .if you think the show made him buffoon iam wondering what you are thoughts on what he dpes in ADWd .
Moka, I 100% agree with you. Very well put. Not every death scene has to be shown, especially when it’s obvious what happens. The Blackfish idiotically went to his suicide. And Arya fought in the dark. Not much more to it and adding to the already heavy bloodshed won’t improve the show. More is not always better.
And yes, Tyrion is a master of manipulation but it’s hilarious when he doesn’t have much to work with and he’s actually at a loss. It’s such a unique scenario to the entire show and it’s sad that many people don’t get it.
I’m glad to see another Ramin fan! I love movie scores and listen to them every night to drown out my husband’s horrible snoring. GOT Season 2 is my favorite…many say this was the weakest season but for me the best score so far. Every year the score is released around the second week of June, so just keep checking iTunes! And yes, I have noticed the amazing music and cannot wait until the music is available!
AngryCrows,
Thank you! I thought it may be a stupid question because there was a known answer (for example, we knew when Joffrey died Tommen was next in line) and maybe something had slipped past me. I haven’t yet read the books – waiting til after the show ends so I’m not so depressed) and so on occasion there’s something obvious that’s generally accepted that I’m a little dumb about 😉
Corbyn Stark,
The Donald: Don’t even get me started about this Evil Clown….
During the early 1990s, I researched/wrote/produced a newsletter for a local nature center. Climate Change was already an issue back then–conern that US cities near sea level (Miami, Los Angeles, etc.) soon might be inundated by melting arctic ice was actively discussed.
To clueless/fossil-fuel-invested US politicians who still shrug off this Real Threat by saying “I am not a scientist,” I say: Consult a scientist. Accept the *facts,* and propose a platform that creates employment for thousands of blue-collar workers now engaed in coal mining, fracking, etc.
____
As an escape from this Grim Reality at this moment, I’m interested primarily in HBO’s GOT Post-Stannis Loose Ends/Connections:
https://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-season-6-episode-8-no-one-recap/#comment-641823
Pigeon,
I wonder if the potions and poisons could become more important than it seemed? We don’t know if she was brewing a poison, a healing potion, a performance enhancing substance or a nice pot of tea; but I would love it if we had a Weasel Soup type scenario after she infiltrates The Twins as a servant 😉
I really liked the episode. I felt the deliberately off screen moments were quite fitting. Thematically and character-wise there was a lot to enjoy. I understand that some people were disappointed for various reasons.
Nitpicking about the door however is a bit much. Upon rewatch: After closing it behind her, the Waif walks nearly halfway down the room to taunt the kneeling Arya. Then once Arya stands up brandishing Needle, the Waif takes six more steps towards her in a deliberate way, slightly increasing in speed. There’s no doubt in my mind that Arya would have mapped out the size of that room – both its width and length in terms of how many steps, or how much swing or dodging room she would have – in the dark. After all, we know she spent at least one night in there beforehand. The notion that the Waif could safely do an about turn after the shock of the candle going out and then run back to the door and find the latch and open it again in pitch blackness and not be completely vulnerable to an attack from behind by Arya with her longer reach is pretty ridiculous.
Also, as someone else pointed out, the blood trail in the HoBaW led to the pool/well first. It’s not a huge leap to think that Arya might have drunk from it to heal her stab wounds – if it healed her blindness. So it’s not a stretch that in the final scene with Jaqen, she might look less wounded than we would expect.
Still, I was disappointed in how they made the stab wounds look so bad the week before. They chose shock over realism. Once I’d let that go, though, it was easier to accept how things played out this week.
I think Jaqen knew she could never become a true FM – in the sense of giving up her identity – but he liked the girl a lot and had offered to help her train to become an assassin. I think his smile and nod of approval/acceptance at the end was genuine. She’d managed to convince him she was at the end of her training.
Highlights: Sandor scenes, Jaime/Brienne, Jaime/Edmure, Bronn and Pod reuniting, Lady Crane’s improved speech and bonding with Arya. The chase & candle bit leading to her ‘graduation’ with Jaqen.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
It’s definitely not a stupid question, because the succession would be heavily impacted by political reality. The black and white answer would be “the closest male relative”, excluding those sworn to other service like the Kingsguard or the Wall. That would officially be Jaime, his “uncle.”
Would the Lords of the realm allow that? Certainly, the Lannisters are the main support for Tommen, so it’s not impossible. But I would guess that most wouldn’t be happy with it, for Kingslaying/twincestual reasons, and call for a Great Council. All bets would be off, and anyone might become King… Kevan? Mace? Gendry? Shadowbaby?
Of course, there’s the ever-present concept of “might makes right”, so Queen Dany and her Dragons.. potentially followed by the Night King and the Legions of Death.. make all of the above rather temporary.
Sorry, Kevan wasn’t being misogynistic. Stop bringing your extreme political views into the conversation and stop silencing those who disagree with you.
So Danny flies up on her fire breathing dragon while her stone pyramid is being fire-bombed (by wooden ships in the bay, probably filled with soldiers to invade them). Did she just get dropped off???? And… then sends Drogon on a beer run??? He flew straight away from the pyramid. The cgi is already there, why did they not have them fly up from behind and torch those boats first??? Its a huge dragon, the invaders (in wooden boats full of fire bombs) didn’t just say nooope and scatter? Why is this not a “WTF” moment? There will be more boats not filled with enemies so please don’t say, “she needs those boats”
anyone??? anyone?? Bueler?
also, Bronn and Pods slap fight was too campy. C’mon?
A lot of this year seems to be written by a 15-year-old-never-been-kissed-basement-dweller…… wait… er….. um? Oh bother, so many disappoints.
Sue the Fury,
being rude or nasty to a particular woman does not per se make you misogynistic
ygritte,
I thought that was Jaime’s way of getting Riverrun without shedding blood–he just threatened to, and Edmure bought it.
I agree with your observation that the show devolves to a video game. I wonder if the ending of the books is that the whole saga is just a video game, with reanimation for the asking, cyclic castle turnovers, and WWs to kill en masse. Every eight thousands years a reset.
I disagree with the author. I think this was one of the best episodes.
Blackfish dying off screen was very dramatic. And sad emotionally. He was outnumbered massively and it was a poiniant death… We didnt need to see him charging 50 men. The whole scene was to set up the quiet and emotional boat get away. Theres enough fighting and gratutitous violence. The Blackfish dying off screen when we all knew he was going to die was perfect.
How would we see it, if they were in the dark?