Open Chat

Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 6 – Blood of My Blood – Open Chat

Posted on by Sue the Fury

GOT_MP_091415_EP606-2061[1]

Game of Thrones Season 6, Episode 6 “Blood of My Blood”

Writer: Bryan Cogman
Director: Jack Bender
Runtime: 52 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Violence
Video Preview: Full episode 6 preview on YouTube

Synopsis: An old foe comes back into the picture. Gilly meets Sam’s family. Arya faces a difficult choice. Jaime faces off against the High Sparrow.

*Note: please use spoiler coding when discussing ASOIAF or filming spoilers.*


Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post prior to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Season 6 Episode 6). We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately. In the event of a leak, spoilers from the actual aired episode are not permitted in this post until after the episode officially airs at 9PM EDT. Thank you!

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

1,070 Comments

  6. Guys ,
    Do you think there is going to be an actual battle between Tyrell soldiers and Sparrows ?

  7. I am slightly annoyed that Margaery has been in prison a lot longer for lying than Cersei was in jail for adultery, incest and murder. FREE MARGAERY!

  8. Can’t wait for: Bran, King’s Landing, possible Drogon appearance and Jansa scenes. Enjoy the episode people!

  9. Could the “old foe” be the Sons of the Harpies? Is a new attack coming? There were Sons of the Harpies killing people in the previous trailers…

  11. I’m hype! (As always)

    Maybe Sam will

    steal his father’s valyrian steel sword, Heartsbane to study it in order to find out why it kills white walkers.

  15. Jaime needs to break up with Cersei in this episode…he has been stupid for too long…please!!

  16. Praise be to the lord of light!!!
    And it’s a Bryan Cogman episode, good shit ^^
    Really looking forward to watching the rest of the season, this week is going to blow by thanks to Blood and wine 😀

  22. Mostly pumped for Bran and Arya. Go Starks! Still hoping against hope for for atleast one Jonsa scene.

  24. My watch is ended,

    No. I think Cersei lied when she told that Margaery have to do the walk. The real secret that Tommen told to her was Margaery, Loras and Tommen himself joins the Seven and the High Sparrow let them go. That’s was he told to his mother. But Cersei wants the Tyrells and the sparrows to fight each other because she hate them all, so she lied to Olenna. The sparrows will let them go without any fight and they’ll all go against Cersei.

  26. What you guys think, if the rider turns to be good ol´ Benjen, would be the explanation to why he has been all this years whitout returning to the Wall?

    Could he be marked, just like Bran?

  28. Connor,

    I almost forgot the Tarlys has a valyrian steel sword sword as well, can’t bloody wait to see it ^^
    Heartsbane.

  29. Old foe could be

    Shae. The hallucination of Tyrion or a commoner that looks like her. Sibel Kekilli was spotted in Peñiscola

  32. Dee,

    Bryan Cogman episodes are great, really looking forward to the next episode, mostly because of the Northern meeting and Broken men. I have a feeling Cogman will knock it out of the park.

  33. I have high hopes this is the episode when all the quieter storylines this season go loud. Looking forward to Arya and KL contingent in particular but I’m a little biased here seeing as these are two segments I desperately want to enjoy, for the sake of the characters.

    It is past Arya’s story got a move on, by which I mean she either freaking converted to a ninja or went medieval on the Waif.

    Other than that, King’s Landing has the most potential for me this episode as it has a lot of solid build-up from prior episodes to lean on. They also seem to be dedicating the most significant chunk of screen time to this location, so fingers crossed!

    Other than that, Bran and Meera and hopefully that one guy we haven’t seen since literally the beginning should prove an interesting few minutes, but after Hodor I feel like everything would come across as more of an aftermath. Besides, I’m positively ready to take a break from the North in general for a bit, just to catch my breath.

    Sam & Gilly in and of themselves don’t pull that much of an emotional punch for me, but the introdution of the rest of the Tarlys, daddy Tarly in particular, has me intrigued.

    For once I hope Daenerys does not turn out a focus this week, even though the title suggests she very well may be. I’ve just never been her most devoted fan. I find her character reasonably tolerable, mind you, it’s just that I feel they should be spending more time with her once she’s back in Mereen so that both her and Tyrion’s stories can sort of feed off one another and start drawing more of my attention.

    All and all, I’m quite literally popping with excitement for this episode. Fingers crossed it pays off.

  34. Something to watch in the mean time, they are really positive videos that mostly focus on the show, they do explore book angles, and give theories and speculation, but overall they are not distracted by differences. I really like how these videos really explore how the production/directors/showrunners are setting up the scenes and imagery – they point out the little things that you might miss and really give you a better appreciation to how great this show is and how much thought is being put into each scene and camera shot.

    Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 5 ANALYZED! – 6×05 – The Door

    If you have time check out their earlier episodes too, the Daeny setup in ep3 with the fire was particularly reveling – missed all that. Great stuff.

  35. I thought it was fairly obvious the secret HS told Tommen was Cersei and Lancel.

    I think people are missing a few huge things ahead of this episode. 1, we’ve seen Dany and Daario a lot in the preview and the episode pictures. Seems rather innocuous but i’m curious as to what it could mean. Then we have Jorah going off on his journey. Anyone else think he’ll meet up with Theon and Yara in Pentos or Volantis or something? Also, in Bran’s final training, he was sent to the time when Ned was leaving for the Vale. What importance does that have??? Also, according to reports(not sure if confirmed), Jack Bender was on the ToJ set so we should be getting that today.

    Can’t wait!! What a season! No ‘weak’ episodes!

  36. I think there’ll be a lot of Jaime stuff in this episode (with bran in the past seeing jaime killing the mad king), at least i hope so…

    (do you think the red wedding 2.0 will be Walder’s or Bronn’s wedding ?)

  37. #MakeKingsLandingInterestingAgain

    Can the show finally get Jaime back on track and out of Cersei’s lap? Pretty please?

  39. EPISODE 6 – Jaime faces off against the High Sparrow.
    EPISODE 7 – Jaime comfronts a hero. (The BlackFish is a legend. According to Davos. Hero or legend…it’s the same.)

    Jaime will do a ”Littlefinger”. He will be at Riverrun in episode 7.

  41. Guessing Jaime will negotiate a Lancel/Gatehouse Ami Frey wedding, if Lancel’s to get out of this.

  42. Please be Benjen.
    Please be Benjen.
    Please be Benjen.
    Please be Benjen.
    Please be Benjen.

  44. HoldTheDoor:
    Could the “old foe” be the Sons of the Harpies? Is a new attack coming? There were Sons of the Harpies killing people in the previous trailers…

    Wouldn’t call them “old”.

  45. I’m most interested in Bran and what exactly the vision with Aramayo’s young Ned will be of. Oh, and will we finally see Uncle Benjen again? If so, what the hell has he been up to?

  46. IIRC, Natalie Dormer (Margaery) revealed in an interview before the open of Season 6 that she would be spending a lot of time with a new and interesting partner.

    Not really sure who that could be this late in the game, beyond the High Sparrow himself, if she does end up “converting” to his philosophy as people are speculating. I hope not, but at least we’ll likely get some answers tonight.

    I’m also amped for Arya’s storyline to progress. We’ve been building to something for quite a while, and it seems like it finally is coming to some sort of resolution (fingers crossed).

  47. Dee:
    Hold the effing door!

    Edit: so damn hyped!!!!!!!!

    Lol… me too… just getting online … gonna see what everyone is excited for!!

  48. Stormborn n’ Sassy:
    I am slightly annoyed that Margaery has been in prison a lot longer for lying than Cersei was in jail for adultery, incest and murder. FREE MARGAERY!

    I think she held out longer then Cersei… that Margaery chose to not give in to their demands.. isn’t that what she told her brother? Do NOT give bc that is what they want.

  52. What the fuck is a Lommy?:
    What you guys think, if the rider turns to be good ol´ Benjen, would be the explanation to why he has been all this years whitout returning to the Wall?

    Could he be marked, just like Bran?

    But how could he survive all those years?
    No, I think Bran is a proper Harry Potter.

    This said, I am looking forward to seeing Uncle again. I hope we will not be disappointed.

  53. If Valyrian steel and dragonglass (obsidian) are the two things that can kill White Walkers, shouldn’t someone be importing Valyrian steel from Old Valyria?

  54. Like others, I’m really hoping Jaime wakes up this ep. His book and show progress seems to be forgotten. He’s nothing more than Cersei’s side piece atm bleh.

    I really wish Jaime (D&D) had told the truth to Tyrion n that plot point was already in play. I miss hearing that quote every other thought. They set it up in season 2 ffs and uh, I won’t get started lol.

    *steals phone back from book wanker*

    Only five hours to go 😀 hype hype etc

    Have an awesome evening yo!!

  56. Here are my theories for the episode. Do people agree/disagree/have ideas to add?:

    1) Drogon makes an appearance
    2) Margaery stops the Tyrell army/violence does NOT ensue
    3) Arya defies the faceless men
    4) The old foe is Walder Frey, setting up the Stark’s impending revenge plot
    5) Uncle Benjen saves the day

    If I’m right on 2/5 I’ll call it a victory ?

  57. Syed Kabir,

    Also, in Bran’s final training, he was sent to the time when Ned was leaving for the Vale. What importance does that have???

    That is where he and Robert train with Jon Arryn. Perhaps we’ll be seeing something important there between them. Or it could just be because that is the moment that Hodor is warged

  58. Ice Spider: I think she held out longer then Cersei… that Margaery chose to not give in to their demands.. isn’t that what she told her brother? Do NOT give bc that is what they want.

    Still at the end, when Loras cries and says he would do anything for them to stop, she says ok or something, as if she is pondering on the possibility.

  62. Matthew The Dragon Knight,

    Hahah very sorry if they’re duplicates! I totally just came up with them on the fly, but (1) they’re not crack pot theories by any means, and (2) I do frequent this site, so don’t claim to be the first to predict any of the 5.

    I just like to consolidate my predictions beforehand and see how they all play out. Glad to hear we’re probably on the same page though.

  63. Well, we’ve got dragons … so we can always get more dragon glass, right?

  64. Like many of you, I look forward to the KL storyline moving forward. I don’t mind that they’ve taken awhile to set things up. Especially since the northern storylines are moving at breakneck speed, but halfway through the season, it’s time.

    I’m hoping Essie Davis gets a lot of screentime. Surely they hired someone that good for a reason. I love her in both Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries and The Babadook. With all the drama in the north, she’s got lost in the shuffle last week. I think this is going to be a good Arya episode.

    Yay for the Tarly reunion! Even though Randyll Tarly hasn’t done much evil compared to the heavy hitting villains of Westeros like the Boltons, Freys and Joffrey, I still hate him. He’s more like the kind of asshole you’d meet in the real world. Someone well respected for professional accomplishments, but is an asshole to his kids and a raging misogynist. Hopefully the show does him justice. I think they will.

    I would really like tonight to be night when some Freys finally start dying.

    I’m wondering if they’re condensing the BWB/LS killing of Freys from AFFC and the Winterfell murder mystery from ADWD into one plot. Perhaps a BWB has infiltrated the Twins and is murdering Freys. In any case, I’m excited for the show to return to the Riverlands. I enjoyed AFFC stuff that took place there. I can understand why a lot of events took place off screen for show purposes, but I’m ready to go back!

    Are we going to see the Blackfish tonight?

    Lastly, I’m trying not to let you people get my hopes up that we’ll get the return of Benjen tonight. I really don’t want to hold my breath on this one, damnist! I feel my resolve weakening though. I’m probably going to be pretty hyped by the time 8 PM rolls around.

  66. Firannion,

    Kinvara is going to play mind tricks on Tyrion! She’s beautiful, even though she might be an ancient woman in disguise 😀

  67. Connor:

    Maybe Sam will…study Valerian steel to learn how to make it.

    It’s about time for scientific research. The only way to get out of the pickle they are in.

  69. Gameday!

    I also hope something about the KL standoff goes wrong and Jaime grasps a bit of insight about his sister, Lancel, Tommen, HS and/or Marg, causing him to leave KL and head northwest toward his destiny.

    Bran and Meera, good luck! I have a feeling BR will be giving one more posthumous gift to Bran.

    Last week’s episode will be hard to top but I’m sure more twists and turns are ahead!

  71. Ser Lurk of House Turnip:

    I really wish Jaime (D&D) had told the truth to Tyrion n that plot point was already in play. I miss hearing that quote every other thought. They set it up in season 2 ffs and uh, I won’t get started lol.

    *steals phone back from book wanker*

    I doubt that even many book wankers miss that quote much. But taking away the single most compelling motivation of Tyrion’s much-abused life was a real mistake, characterwise.

    But as you say, probably best not to get started down that road!

  72. Stormborn n’ Sassy:
    If Valyrian steel and dragonglass (obsidian) are the two things that can kill White Walkers, shouldn’t someone be importing Valyrian steel from Old Valyria?

    I think Dragonstone will have the supplies they are going to need.

  74. I wonder if we will see Gilly all dressed up and out of those dirty clothes this episode?

  75. Benjen! Benjen! Benjen! Come on man, we need ya or Bran with Meera more likely.

    Hopefully King’s Landing will be good one since the North is most likely absentee in this episode or perhaps Ramsay might be in some small scene with Rickon.

  76. If Benjen does show up perhaps he can add depth to the final ToJ flashback that Bran will see. Offer insight into Ned’s choices. If he resurfaces now there is a good chance Ned told his brother things he shared with no one else.

  77. Firannion: And/or a hallucination of

    Shae[/], if popular speculation about what

    Kekilli[/] was doing hanging around the set turns out to be true.

    Damned device. Mods, if someone could repair my mangled spoiler coding or just delete my post, I’d be grateful.

  78. So obviously the two biggest stories for me this week will be KL and what happens to Meera and Bran.

    Curious as to what everyone’s thoughts are on Tommen possibly betraying his Mother? If the HS did indeed tell him the truth about Lancel and Cersei would that be enough to turn him against her? And that Margaery and him form an alliance through the HS and that is going to be the end of Cersei? I mean she really isn’t going to have much purpose going forward in the storyline so Im wondering if this is going to be a huge spoiler and that Cersei dies tonight????? It seems that Jaime is going to have to leave KL after this season to do his next purpose… just wondering what you all think of that thought?

    And as for Meera and Bran.. I just want to see BENJEN….. fingers crossed.

  79. JonFookinSnow:
    Ice Spider,

    Let’s hope so! I love Natalie Dormer in this show.

    She kinda gave it away that she will be a game player through this season.. so she’s def NOT going to be gone anytime soon.. besides Im guessing she sells out Cersei and her and Tommen are plotting against his Mother… I haven’t heard this theory yet but I also haven’t been online much this last week so it may have been already tossed out there… Im sure.

  80. I also think NO North this episode, except for Bran’s story. And all key deaths will be in KL, Dothraki and/or Braavos.

  82. Firannion,

    Agreed.

    He only needs to say it once n ill be happy. In jest when chatting to Bronn bro, later this season perhaps.

    Time is going too slow!!! Might have a kip lol

  83. Stormborn n’ Sassy:
    If Valyrian steel and dragonglass (obsidian) are the two things that can kill White Walkers, shouldn’t someone be importing Valyrian steel from Old Valyria?

    Old Valyria is a smoking volcanic ruin. And in the show version, it’s overrun with Stone Men as well.

  86. Ice Spider,

    Interesting question. Personally, I don’t really think Tommen is capable of this level of manipulation, especially without Margaery there to guide him. I think it’s more likely that the HS is the one pulling the strings. I’m not sure if this would be to, (1) set a trap for Cersei, (2) set a trap for Tommen – catching him in a lie to the HS, since he obviously told Cersei, or (3) simply test Tommen’s loyalty to the faith.

    Unfortunately, I don’t really have any good ideas to theorize what this secret may have been, or what it will mean. I do think that it’s got more to do with the HS though, and that Tommen is only a puppet.

    If not, then thank god we finally have Tommen contributing to the plot development for once ?

  87. Maggie:
    Jaime needs to break up with Cersei in this episode…he has been stupid for too long…please!!

    Love the show, yadayadayada; I do have to wonder what is up with Jaime’s character arc ever since season 4. What was the the purpose of his dream in Storm, why so many POV chapters… And make him so tepid in the show.

  89. I am sooooooo hyped

    I’m not reading many comments cause I feel like there is spoilers speculation Hahahahah

    But i don’t want cersei to win tonight

    That is all.

  90. Where has Benjen been? I say spelunking. Somehow he knew that a route under the Wall, unaffected by its magical wards, would eventually be needed. He has been looking for Gorne’s Way and has finally found it. It might even connect with the secret exit from the Winterfell crypts, handily enough.

    Far-fetched, you say? Maybe. But a guy doesn’t get the reputation of Best Ranger Ever for naught.

  91. Stormborn n’ Sassy:
    Well, we’ve got dragons … so we can always get more dragon glass, right?

    Obsidian results from lava cooling quickly, such as plunging into the ocean. Dragonstone has lots of dragonglass. The Iron Islands mine metal ore. I wonder if they have obsidian as well.

  93. I really think the secret is

    about Cersei and Jamie. Tommen is probably the only soul in KL that doesn’t believe it, so hearing it from HS (who probably got it from Margery) is going to be the breaking point for him, and he’ll be ripe to toss mom under the bus.

    ETA

    the other possibility is who actually killed Joffrey, but Im not sure Margery would confess that and toss her grandma under the bus!

  94. Nm ignore me :/ just remembered why that quote won’t ever be in the show ha! Derp. It’s so confusing having both book n show in my mind n knowing them both inside out. But not

  95. eejazz:
    Ice Spider,

    Interesting question. Personally, I don’t really think Tommen is capable of this level of manipulation, especially without Margaery there to guide him. I think it’s more likely that the HS is the one pulling the strings. I’m not sure if this would be to, (1) set a trap for Cersei, (2) set a trap for Tommen – catching him in a lie to the HS, since he obviously told Cersei, or (3) simply test Tommen’s loyalty to the faith.

    Unfortunately, I don’t really have any good ideas to theorize what this secret may have been, or what it will mean. I do think that it’s got more to do with the HS though, and that Tommen is only a puppet.

    If not, then thank god we finally have Tommen contributing to the plot development for once ?

    I totally agree that this is the HS manipulating Tommen.. but my question was/is do you think he was so upset about what the HS told him that would make him turn against his Mother? Im guessing that the HS allowed Tommen to see Marg (it wasn’t shown on screen but Im guessing that he allowed that as a “token” of trust to Tommen to bring him on board) and that TOGETHER the HS and Marg persuade him to turn on Cersei.

  96. Dee:
    I am sooooooo hyped

    I’m not reading many comments cause I feel like there is spoilers speculation Hahahahah

    But i don’t want cersei to win tonight

    That is all.

    Well then DO NOT read mine.. bc Im offing her tonight …. lol!!

  97. Stormborn n’ Sassy,

    Wouldn’t you need actual Valyrian swords? Because it is not just the metal itself that is important – aren’t Valyrian swords actually made with dragonfire or some such, and magic during their shaping?

    So the swords, like dragonglass, are made with dragonfire. Someone could go gather steel from Valyria, but you can’t make a WW-killing Valyrian sword without the Valyrian magic and the dragonfire.

  99. Ice Spider,

    I don’t dislike that theory… My only problem is, I feel like the show runners would want to show us the set up for such a big betrayal (i.e. The meeting between Marg and Tommen). I could be off base, but that’s why I don’t think what Tommen told Cersei, at least in the context of their individual interaction, was a huge shock. As a principle, the show runners seem to prefer having big moments on screen, rather than hiding them to deceive the audience.

    I don’t think, as it stands, Tommen has enough motivation to turn on Cersei. Margaery would be the necessary ingredient to negate this, IMO, so if your theory about that is right, it may be a tough night for Cersei indeed.

  101. Jinx47:
    Tome will die but will not be killed.

    I am very ready to entertain that possibility. Those steps look ripe for a horseback-riding mishap to me.

  102. Let’s be honest people. As much as I’m sure we all want the mysterious rider to be Benjen, is there any possible way it could be someone else, perhaps even a new character ?
    I feel like I need to lower my expectations and prepare myself for that possibility. Because right now all I can think about is finding out what happened to him and what his role in the story is going to be. I legitimately don’t care what else happens if we get some satisfying answers on that front. For this to have been set up from Season 1 Episode 3, and since the first book in 1996, it has to be important. Very important.

    I’m just worried it may not be him.

    And if it is him, it better be the same actor !

  103. I will not lose my hope for a brief Jon and Sansa scene, other than this i’m actually really excited for the rest of storylines specially Arya and KL. Also looking forward to see how much bigger Drogon is now.

  104. eejazz,

    The show runners did NOT show us the setup for the Red Wedding and that was like one of the biggest betrayals ever. D&D can always have the HS, Marg and Tommen chatting about it after the fact to fill us all in …. of course this is JUST wishful thinking bc Im kinda over Cerise’s arc.. but hey we can always hope!!

  106. Stormborn n’ Sassy: Well, we’ve got dragons … so we can always get more dragon glass, right?

    You just need tectonic activity for obsidian!

    CenPhx: Wouldn’t you need actual Valyrian swords? Because it is not just the metal itself that is important – aren’t Valyrian swords actually made with dragonfire or some such, and magic during their shaping?

    The Nisa Nisa story almost certainly tells us what the final ingredient is for making a Valyrian steel sword.

    Marlana: he Iron Islands mine metal ore. I wonder if they have obsidian as well.

    Only if the metal-bearing intrusions went into sandstones or quartzites. Otherwise, their sources are from very different types of minerals.

  107. Dee,

    I want Cersei to live to see the white walkers. Then she can die. Death by White Walker, hopefully. 😀

  109. Ser Lurk of House Turnip: His book and show progress seems to be forgotten. He’s nothing more than Cersei’s side piece atm bleh.

    ? They did Jaime’s “Watch me be Twyin II” then become a man with a soul very well last year. This year, he’s not done much: but, then, he’s not gotten a lot of screen time.

  110. If it is Benjen then this will probably mean we get a full Stark reunion this season where Bran meets Jon and Sansa.
    I have low hopes for Rickon tho…i cant help but imagine him being the only Stark that dies this season, i mean lets be honest here, how high are the chances for Rickon to get out of this alive…

  111. Connor:
    Dee,

    I want Cersei to live to see the white walkers. Then she can die. Death by White Walker, hopefully. ?

    I actually wouldn’t mind seeing her go out like that either.. but I wouldn’t put any money on that wager.

  112. Connor,

    Yeah I’m hoping one of that generation lives to see the REAL problem

    Edit: but I really want cersei gone hahaha

  113. Markus Stark: I’m just worried it may not be him.

    And if it is him, it better be the same actor !

    Eh, anybody with thick brows, long dark hair and a beard will pass. Most viewers will have to be reminded who Benjen is, anyway. It’s been several years and innumerable cases, projects, kids’ soccer-games, even a kid or two, etc., for them since he was on the show.

  114. Still waiting for that Jon and Melisandre scene. They aren’t going to talk about what happened? Really?

  115. Hodors Bastard: Last week’s episode will be hard to top but I’m sure more twists and turns are ahead!

    heh, it will be hard for the Atlanta Braves to get back into contention this year. It’s going to be damn near impossible for this week to match last week.

  116. Shaggycat: Love the show, yadayadayada; I do have to wonder what is up with Jaime’s character arc ever since season 4. What was the the purpose of his dream in Storm, why so many POV chapters… And make him so tepid in the show.

    Since he was sleeping on a weirwood stump I guessing that it was either Bloodraven or Bran from the future. But I don’t think it was about Jaime’s purpose, I think it was Brienne that needs to do something, therefore he had to be convinced to go back and save her. I think Oathkeeper, being that it’s made from Ice will have some sort of importance. Whether she’ll get it into Stark and/or Jon hands or wield it herself, and what it will do, I don’t know. But I think she has the sword formerly known as Ice is in her care for some reason.

  118. Wimsey,

    Hey, W, evidently the “Aeron/Damphair” PoV chapter that GRRM read today at Balticon was a stunner. I just wanted to let you know because I know you love the ironborn/AFfC story so much. I can only imagine your reaction if you were in the audience. 🙂

    […unfortunately the chapter was supposedly written in 2010…uggh]

  119. So hyped for everything this ep!

    Kings Landing has always been my favorite part of this show every single season w/o fail…. I’ve just been waiting for the floodgates to be released and i bet it happens tonight!

  120. Is there any authority on who is still on Arya’s (show) list?

    Last I remembered it was only Walder Frey, Cersei, and Illyn Payne. But I’m sure I’m forgetting at least one or two.

    Wasn’t Melissandre on her list? And she told Arya that they would meet again. I’m pretty convinced this reunion will happen at some point, just not really sure how that will transpire.

    If Arya abandons the faceless men as I’m hoping, I’m trying to predict where she’ll want to go first…

  121. ash,

    I don’t think Margaery would, but Loras has definitely been broken and would tell them anything for it to end. He didn’t answer Margaery’s questions and would only say “I just want it to end.”

  122. I’ve always gotten the feeling that Cersei will be one of the characters who survives the whole thing. Happy to be wrong on this! But not just yet. I like Lena Heady too much to want her killed off now.

  123. Wimsey,

    So Jon isn’t curious at all? He doesn’t want to know who this women is and how she did what she did? And she will never tell him about the prophecy? Seems very unlikely though Jon may really don’t care that much. Or maybe it’s still going to happen after the north is retaken and they have to face the real threat.

  124. Wimsey,

    I personally dislike recasts, and for the sake of continuity, it is preferable to limit them. Besides, it would be nice for us to know it’s Benjen because we recognize them, not because we have to be told it’s Benjen.
    Obviously it’ll have to be stated anyway, to remind some people as you say, but Benjen has been seen in flashbacks and mentioned several times in recent episodes, so only the most casual viewers won’t know about him . The show shouldn’t only cater to the most casual viewers.

    Anyway, this is just my personal opinion. I liked Joseph Mawle, and I can’t really say I care how many hernias, babies, hemorrhoids or soccer games the average viewer has had since they last saw him.

  125. CenPhx:
    Stormborn n’ Sassy,

    Wouldn’t you need actual Valyrian swords? Because it is not just the metal itself that is important – aren’t Valyrian swords actually made with dragonfire or some such, and magic during their shaping?

    So the swords, like dragonglass, aremade with dragonfire. Someone could go gather steel from Valyria, but you can’t make a WW-killing Valyrian sword without the Valyrian magic and the dragonfire.

    I have long wondered if Valyrian steel can simply be made by smelting obsidian with iron at high temp. Regular steel is made with carbon with iron. Obsidian is Silicon dioxide with traces of metal oxides. The element Silicon is a close relative of the element Carbon. Therefore obsidian can be substituted for carbon.

    The magic and human sacrifice may be mumbo jumbo like the Wisdoms use to make wildfire.

    The reason Gendry’s line of work is smithing is because he will fabricate Valyrian steel at Winterfell.

  126. Shaggycat: Love the show, yadayadayada; I do have to wonder what is up with Jaime’s character arc ever since season 4.

    Last year as the same as in the Crows/Dragons book. Jaime’s “kill the boy, let the man be born” was him trying to put aside his supposedly irresponsible, callow self and be like his father; instead, he revealed himself to be a man with a figurative soul.

    This year is a little hard to say. OK, we’ve got the cost of making allies that you don’t want or that don’t want you. And we can see that this is leading to an alliance of the nobles against the church, despite the fact that the Lannisters and Tyrells do not particularly care for each other. However, we saw last year (as we see in the books) that Jaime now is willing to reach solutions amenable to everyone. Cersei is not.

    So, my bet is that the cost of necessary-but-undesriable alliance for Jaime will wind up being a schism with Cersei. It’s possible that Tommen will die because of it, too. We probably are down to less than two full seasons, so some of that stuff has to start happening soon.

  127. weirwoodtreehugger:
    I’ve always gotten the feeling that Cersei will be one of the characters who survives the whole thing.Happy to be wrong on this!But not just yet.I like Lena Heady too much to want her killed off now.

    I thought unlike some of the other maim characters it was pretty much confirmed that she is NOT the one to survive this.

  128. Wimsey,

    Didn’t like S5 I’m afraid. I mean I like certain scenes but don’t others, like every season. But yeah the ratio was much higher that time. All I remember since Jaime returned to King’s Landing is.. Dorne, him pushing the white book across the table and an unfortunate and avoidable controversy. Ooh and the receiving and giving of Oathkeeper ofc. The former being one of my faves in the whole series mmm. Even with one hand he’s a cocky little bastard 😀 I want more of that. I’m not a believer in his redemption arc cos I don’t feel he can be. Unless ofc it was fated Gah!! Show stuff startin to leak into theories proper now 🙂 I just enjoy his character and the aura he emits throughout the realm. A legend of sorts. I WANT MORE OF THAT!!

    need the ep now lol NOT LONG

  129. At the risk of spamming, I also want to note my excitement about it being a holiday weekend here in the states. I can stay up late and continue the conservation and I’ll have time, at least in the morning to continue it too. One thing I miss about being unemployed is having the time to nerd out over each episode for a solid 24 hours. I don’t miss being broke and anxious about it though!

  131. Firannion: I doubt that even many book wankers miss that quote much. But taking away the single most compelling motivation of Tyrion’s much-abused life was a real mistake, characterwise.

    But as you say, probably best not to get started down that road!

    Really folks, are such unprompted insults necessary? There’s no need to create any more toxicity around here than needs be.

  132. Marlana: The reason Gendry’s line of work is smithing is because he will fabricate Valyrian steel at Winterfell.

    I think it more probable that human sacrifice is the actual ingredient. But how would Gendry learn to rework Valyrian steel, nevermind actually forge it? That would be a hug Deus ex Machina plot device.

    Markus Stark: Besides, it would be nice for us to know it’s Benjen because we recognize them, not because we have to be told it’s Benjen.

    Only the hardcore fans would recognize him after all of this time. Even people who binge-watch it annually would not immediately recognize him: human memories just are not that good for trivial details. That is particularly true when their memories are very crowded with lots of other details: and when you look at the demographics of HBO series viewers, it’s a lot of people who have very busy lives! And it’s also a lot of people who are expected to bring audiences up to speed rapidly in their professional presentations and who expect others to bring them up to speed rapidly when they watch a professional presentation.

  133. I know I’m in the minority here, but I will actually be a little disappointed to see a “deus ex Benjen” tonight.

    GRRM has made it clear that Coldhands is not Benjen. Even if this is a live version of Benjen and not Coldhands, in GRRM’s world, and the real world for that matter, it would be quite normal for a person going into the hostile wild to disappear without a trace. Especially in a medieval fantasy world. Plenty of the Nights Watch have already failed to return from ranging, IIRC that’s why Benjen went out in the first place. At this point, to bring him back for a well-timed rescue and family reunion is just a little too pat and slightly cliche for me!

    But if it makes ya’ll happy to see Benjen again, who am I to rain on your parade! 🙂

    Carry on!

  134. eejazz:
    Is there any authority on who is still on Arya’s (show) list?

    Last I remembered it was only Walder Frey, Cersei, and Illyn Payne. But I’m sure I’m forgetting at least one or two.

    This season, Arya named only three: Walder Frey, Cersei, and the Mountain. She said the Hound had been on her list but that she couldn’t kill him because he both was and wasn’t on her list any longer. She sort of implies that the Waif could be on her list because when the Waif taunts her for more names, Arya says, is there a name a girl would like me to give? Or something like that. But just the three are officially on there now.

  135. HelloThere:
    i believe cersei will have one of the most grand, epic death scenes in the whole series…..

    Before or after she burns KL to the ground? Maybe she’ll go up in flames with Baelor’s Sept?

  136. JonFookinSnow: And she will never tell him about the prophecy?

    Maybe he knows of the prophesy and Melisandre already said to him, “Stannis was not the Prince that was Promised, but someone has to be.” He probably doesn’t believe he’s anything special at the moment and not even thinking about what she said, but as long as she’s around I’m sure it will come up again.

  137. Benjen!
    Marg the survivor!
    Let the Frey feast begin!
    Arya, become a mummer and get away from the Waif!
    Sam…get that sword, buddy. You need it more than they do! (I hate his dad already)
    Tommen swayed and in need of Ser Pounce!
    Dany…don’t trust Daario just because he has a cute behind.
    Jon/Davos/Tormund? Please?

    Also I’m worried Cersei will make sure she sends Jaime to the Riverlands before she goes crazy after a foiled stand off. Has anyone else noticed this? All her worst behavior is timed for Jaime’s absence. He doesn’t even know about Lancel (and he’s never been with another woman in his life-so I know this would upset him) I miss redemption Jaime.

  138. So excited about tonight episode! Mostly beacause I’ve been waiting for Benjen’s return since season one (if he’s not him, that will be so disappointing) and also this is a B. Cogman episode so I’m sure it will be pretty good 🙂

    I don’t think Marg is going to do Walk of Shame, she’ll pretend to be a “Faith” woman or something like that and she’ll have the High Sparro’s forgivness. And Cersei is not going to be happy about that.

  139. Ginevra,

    Hm. Interesting. I forgot about the Mountain, but definitely rings a bell now.

    And yeah, if Arya does jump ship, and killing the Waif isn’t her first order of action, I’ll be severely disappointed.

  141. Lindamon,

    I would not worry about this being related to CH. Given what we’ve seen on the show, CH probably will go down with the sacking of the Weirnet. Uncle Benny is still out there.

  142. Wimsey: Only the hardcore fans would recognize him after all of this time.

    Unless he’s in the “previously on,” which is likely if our man is Benjen. Of course, they’ve trolled us with that once before.

  143. Here for Bran + Meera and King’s Landing! Can’t watch first run so I’ll be watching later!

  144. Wimsey: I think it more probable that human sacrifice is the actual ingredient.But how would Gendry learn to rework Valyrian steel, nevermind actually forge it?That would be a hug Deus ex Machina plot device.

    I thought Tywin did it on the show’s 2nd season with no problem?

  145. KL is the best storyline this season imo, so really looking forward to that 🙂

    Also I think D&D struggle more with new material than Bryan Cogman. Some people are giving him way too much shit because of the UUU episode.

  146. Wimsey: I would not worry about this being related to CH.

    CH is out there and is destined to meet and team with Meera and Bran! “He” and Meera will be the greatest pair of adventurers since Wun Wun and Edd!

  147. Ser Lurk of House Turnip:
    Like others, I’m really hoping Jaime wakes up this ep. His book and show progress seems to be forgotten. He’s nothing more than Cersei’s side piece atm bleh.

    When Jaime goes to the Riverlands, he will do the POV I call “Jaime does Senior Management.” And he will receive some expert trash talking from RR castellan BF. Mayhaps then you will see more action to your liking.

  148. nicnavfer,

    Yes! I thought this too. I also thought of Walder Frey. The shae thing is super interesting, obviously it’s not going to be the real shae but rather a red priestess. I find this SUPER interesting because if this “shae” tries to seduce Tyrion like Mel did with Jon…. won’t that be another hint that Tyrion is also a Targarion? There’s a theory that Tyrion is Dany’s half brother… blood of my blood 🙂

  149. Ginevra: This season, Arya named only three:Walder Frey, Cersei, and the Mountain.She said the Hound had been on her list but that she couldn’t kill him because he both was and wasn’t on her list any longer.She sort of implies that the Waif could be on her list because when the Waif taunts her for more names, Arya says, is there a name a girl would like me to give?Or something like that.But just the three are officially on there now.

    So why did she remove the Red Woman from the list?

  150. Ser Lurk of House Turnip: I’m not a believer in his redemption arc cos I don’t feel he can be.

    I do not think that it is a “redemption arc” so much as it is a “gaining empathy” arc. Early Jaime is a completely callow individual who practically embodies solipsism. Over time, Jaime evolves into someone who becomes aware that it’s not all about him (and Cersei: but he and Cersei view each other as basically one person).

    Given revelations from last week, and given how we’ve seen Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, etc., evolve, I cannot help but to think that this is important. GRRM likes “conflict of the heart” stories: and it’s much easier to do that with protagonists who can feel other people’s pain. Jaime has become such a person. That’s not entirely “redemption”: but it does mean that he is nothing like Tywin.

  151. In rewatching the first four episodes, I noticed that during the scene over Myrcella’s body in the sept, Jamie confesses to the High Sparrow that he aided in Tyrion’s escape. I wonder if this could somehow be significant, given Cersei’s hatred of Tyrion and obsession with capturing him. Maybe not, though, since that’s been less emphasized on the show. But it’s something the HS could easily use to drive a wedge between Jamie and Cersei.

    I’m convinced Benjen is coming back to us this episode. Beyond that, excited to see Arya’s story start to move, and hoping for some Jon, Sansa et al scenes. And looking forward to whatever the short Young Ned scene is.

  152. Chad Brick,

    I’m a self confessed book wanker so it was ok lol. I just contain myself 😛 the the books are way better but the show is where I started and the best show ever (after BSG & The Wire) so my loyalty is split. No. Even. The fact there is a split at all makes me sad lol n that’s why I lurk.

    Except for when I’m killing time before an ep n counting down hours like now and have strange nervous rushes n can’t chill D:

  153. weirwoodtreehugger: tepid

    He also had a vision of his mother.
    The dream was strongly about him he watched all the Lannisters leaving him, swords that catch on fire in strange crypts…Rhaegar and dead horses armored all in SNOW. The dream make him save Brienne because Brienne keeps his light (life) on when Cersei abandons him , but it’s also prophetic he watches that his father will give him a sword to fight his doom and he and Brienne have two e.t.c
    Also Bran see him in his visions two times.

    All these staff are rather important, i am not saying Jaime is the most important character or anything like that, but he is one of the very few characters that have watched something connected with the important things.. I want to see what he does in the books because G RR Marting gave him too much in the books with his dreams and history….but in the show they don’t show how interesting he is.
    I don’t know if he survives or not, but he has too leave Cersei in the show…i am sure NCW can play the interesting Jaime if he is asked too…

  154. RG: He doesn’t even know about Lancel

    And it’s just Lancel

    They didn’t even have her affairs with the three Kettleblack brothers as well.

  155. Hodors Bastard,

    lol… I would both enjoy that on a pure fanboy level and then criticize the hell out of it on a pure Wimsey level.

    Seriously, you were calling the Weirnet sacking long before anyone else. Do you think that CH will survive it in the book? Or perhaps be “reclaimed?”

    Jinx47: I thought Tywin did it on the show’s 2nd season with no problem?

    He hired one of the few smiths alive who knows how to work Valryian steal: and he had to send to Volantis or Bravos or some other place in Essos to get him. I would not call that “no problem!”

  158. Maggie,

    The big difference is that Jaime’s dream was basically like a real dream: a distorted jumble of things weighing on his mind. It was not a metaphorical vision of what was or what will be the way that Bran or Jojen have.

  159. Wimsey:
    Hodors Bastard,

    lol…I would both enjoy that on a pure fanboy level and then criticize the hell out of it on a pure Wimsey level.

    Seriously, you were calling the Weirnet sacking long before anyone else.Do you think that CH will survive it in the book?Or perhaps be “reclaimed?”

    He hired one of the few smiths alive who knows how to work Valryian steal: and he had to send to Volantis or Bravos or some other place in Essos to get him.I would not call that “no problem!”

    I see, then let’s hope Gendry has been spending a lot of time in Volantis in the right smith places while being MIA on the show.

  160. Personally, I don’t see Benjen lasting six years out there. Just way too hard to fathom. And how would he be marked, when the marking occurred during green seeing in Bran’s case? I’d sooner expect Howland Reed, having traveled beyond the wall when he “felt” Jojen die. The 3ER called him out by name at TOJ, and it was never brought up again with Meera about seeing her father in the past. So there must be a reason to call him out again, when Bran already knows the story of him and his father, and that he’s Jojen and Meera’s father. Could it really have only been a reminder to viewers? I’m not sure. We shall see who the mysterious horseman is soon!

    Which brings up another question I hope is answered in time. How can the NK touch a “vision” of Bran (non-physical) in the past or present unless he is also in the vision in the same way, like when 3ER is able to grab Bran to take him out of the scene? I can see him having some type of abilities since he was created against, and tied to, what looked like the CoTF mainframe weir wood tree. I hope it’s explained in the future how the NK did that, and how they animate the dead.

  162. JonFookinSnow,

    I know what you mean but think of it this way.
    The story isn’t being told to Jon it is being told to us. We already know all about Melisandre (who she is, how she brought Jon back etc – we were there) and to hear it all being told again to a another character on the show would be a retelling (to us) and monotonous. Other than enjoying Jon’s reaction to the news it wouldn’t in any way further the story.

  163. Ser Lurk of House Turnip,

    I agree – Jaime cannot/will not be redeemed, at least not thoroughly. That’s OK. Not everyone can be redeemed. By doing senior management, offering generous terms, and seeing more sides of the picture, he will still contribute to the positive.

  165. Marlana,

    Mayhaps I will 🙂 that convo is pure gold n I’ve got a feeling the show might get that one right. Two awesome actors goin at it. Pls~

    Also the tent scene when he interrupts something HA pure Thrones they got to do that.

  168. Clob,

    Oh right – and he would know about it Im sure.

    Wimsey,

    I wouldn’t recognize him – tho if someone said ‘Benjen!’ I’d look and think, ok thats him.. but it would just be a lucky guess. He has been mentioned many times (esp lately by Bran) so his name anyway might be familiar

    Ginevra,

    Hee, yeah, that was quite memorable….

  171. Dee,
    Hell yes!! They better make Cersei win this season. and then keep her till the last season atleast. I would be most upset if she’s offed earlier than that. They built up all the hype about franken moutnain which I was most looking forward to and Cersei isn’t that dumb that she wouldn’t have learnt a bit about HS mechinations and merely be a pawn for his benefit. Just bloody give the audience a chance where we can all unanimously cheer for Cersei genuinely. just for once!!!

  173. Ser Lurk of House Turnip:
    Marlana,

    Also the tent scene when he interrupts something HA pure Thrones they got to do that.

    In the tent when Jaime tells the actual lord of RR the siege/warfare/surrender life or death facts of life, that is chilling and a lesson in Medieval reality. As you say, pure Thrones.

  174. Hi-Fi,

    If BastardBowl happens in episode 9 there isn’t really that much time left to unite the northerners and wildlings and prepare for the assault. Though Ramasy will probably have the advantage in any case. So if they sit out this episode they only have two more episodes for all this to happen.

  175. TFT,

    Well to be fair, it is one of the worst episodes, if not the worst of the entire series. Not that it’s bad. The “worst” in GoT is still very good compared to most other TV shows. I just can’t think of a single GoT episode that isn’t better than “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”. It just strikes me as the weakest by far, mostly because the sequence in Dorne is probably the worst sequence in the show’s history. The rest of the episode was pretty good, but nothing special compared to how good most episodes are.

  176. Markus Stark,

    The sequence in dorne didn’t even bother me
    The rest of it was so good!
    Crazy how diff people can see things completely opposite

    Motherofmadness,

    She’s defintely not dying this season… If she does I will be extremely shocked

  177. Wimsey,

    Can just imagine Cersei’s next guilt trip to Jaime if he decides to no longer back her plans. “You once told me that you’d kill every person in this world until its u and I who remain! Tell me is the man I loved alive or should I wear a mourning gown for him as well?”
    Personally I think it would take a lot more for Jaime to end things with her and seem unnatural since she’s the one woman he truly loved. and he doesn’t care about Lancel seemingly on the show, the only one lover she had. So let em do their thing of coming to the world together and leaving it together in the end I say! No wedges. How interesting will that really make Jaime? will he pursue Brienne ? that would be predictable. He shud die a one woman man! thats his single most unique quality even if its twisted!

  178. Chad Brick: Really folks, are such unprompted insults necessary? There’s no need to create any more toxicity around here than needs be.

    Chill, Chad! As one of the regulars who most frequently gets called a ‘book purist’ around here, I was using that term with tongue planted firmly in cheek – as was Ser Lurk.

    Sorry to have created a misperception, and sending a big cheery wave to all who, like myself, still like the books best.

  179. Dee,

    You remember how merciless Mothers Mercy was last year? Expect for some major characters to die in the 69 minutes finale. Gonna be rough.

  180. Dee,

    Yup, but that’s part the beauty of the show ! There are so many different stories and characters/locations that different viewers enjoy different aspects and moments of the show.
    Some people thought “The Door” was the strongest episode of Season 6 so far, others who don’t like the Ironborn, aren’t interest in Arya, or really missed King’s Landing thought it was the weakest.

    The show has enough material to appeal to all kinds of different tastes and preferences 🙂

  181. I’ve always felt that 2×02 “The Night Lands” is a worse outing than 5×06, myself. And there are probably a handful of other episodes which I just don’t engage with terribly much that I’d pin beneath “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” as well.

    Lowest score I’d ever give a Thrones episode is, like, a 6, though. I don’t know if this series is *capable* of a truly bad hour of television in my eyes.

  182. These are two questions I keep asking myself every time I’ve rewatched the episodes of the season.
    1. They had blind Arya appear as if she’d finally become a great fighter, getting the upper hand on the Waif (in ep3). She even got that bad-ass turn and music as she stood there straight faced. Last week even with her sight regained she was suddenly awful again. I know they used that to get in the, “you’ll never be one of us, Lady Stark,” line, but come on! I’ve been hoping for noticeable improvement… In other words, kicking the Waif’s ass.
    2. This one is from Bran’s “visit” with the NK and the army of wights. What were they doing when he arrived? It was like they were all in suspended animation, even the Walkers. Is that what they do when they’re not attacking somewhere? Do they just essentially go to ‘sleep’ until they move on? I guess I’ve always assumed they had a sort of civilization, a city or base.

  184. I am looking forward to seeing Randyll Tarly. GoT loves its awkward family dinners.

    🙂

  185. Marlana: In the tent when Jaime tells the actual lord of RR the siege/warfare/surrender life or death facts of life, that is chilling and a lesson in Medieval reality. As you say, pure Thrones.

    Having been blown away by Tobias Menzies’ acting in Outlander, I am hoping for more screentime for Edmure going forward!

  186. Clob,

    I didn’t see her get the upper hand on the waif! The waif is obviously much better trained even defeating Arya with her fists.

  187. Jaime Lannister will be redeemed.
    Deal with it.
    Grrm hinself admitted it in an interview. “. One of the things I wanted to explore with Jaime, and with so many of the characters, is the whole issue of redemption. When can we be redeemed? Is redemption even possible? … ”
    Some people may disagree but he is intended for a redemption arc.
    His dreams in the books are very,very important,just like Jon’s or Bran’s.

  188. Clob

    I wondered too, and just explained it to myself like it was a dream – until of course he was touched

  189. Direwolf Lvr,

    There was a post further up the thread that has a link and it’s explained in there fairly well how that all worked… confusing yes ….

  192. Does anyone have any theories as to why Jamie and the Lannister army are even in the river lands??

  193. You may already know this. IMDB updates their Series Cast section in real time, so for example, Peter Dinklage is showing “56 Episodes, 2011-2016” as of today. Also showing today

    are the four actors who play the Tarlys (“1 Episode, 2016”), which we know from the trailer and Ian McShane. No Rory McCann, though, and no David Bradley.

  195. JonFookinSnow,

    Two episodes is about enough to do gathering Northern lords and preparing fo the battle. It’s not like Jon, Sansa and co will go from House to House to beg lords to join them. One big meeting should do it, then a bit of a planning to attack them and boom battle.

  196. Sou,

    Yes.. but the original comment was that Cersei didn’t suffer as much as Marg. The comment was that Marg only lied and Cersei committed adultery and all kings of other evils.. so that she should have suffered more in the cells.. my whole point was that Cersei just opted to get out sooner and Marg chose to sit in there not giving in to the HS’s demands.

  200. Ice Spider,

    Here’s the link..
    Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 5 ANALYZED! – 6×05 – The Door

    Ugh.. it didn’t come through.. anyway its close to the top.. HS posted it.

  201. Firannion: Having been blown away by Tobias Menzies’ acting in Outlander, I am hoping for more screentime for Edmure going forward!

    I’m loving Season 6 for all sorts of reasons, but it’s getting me royally accustomed to the notion of old familiar faces popping up just quickly enough to see them in a couple of scenes before they drop dead for good and all. I’d like to see a fair bit of Edmure, too, but I’m predicting a short run for him in 2016, haha.

  202. Geralt of Rivia: It’s not like Jon, Sansa and co will go from House to House to beg lords to join them

    They might show Sansa being turned away by Northerners more afraid of the Wildlings than of the Boltons. After all, both show and books have spent a bit of time developing just how hated the Wildlings are by the Northerners. And, as JonFookinSnow notes, nothing is ever that easy for the main characters!

  203. Markus Stark: can’t think of a single GoT episode that isn’t better than “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”.

    Critics consensus will back you up on that. Pretty much anywhere you look 5×06 is the lowest rated of the series, or at least probably close in places I don’t follow. Rotten Tomatoes has that episode at 58%. Nearly every episode in the series is between 90 & 100 on there with just a few high 80’s as an exception. Would it be higher had they simply removed the rape in the final scene? Probably, but maybe not by as much as one would think.

  204. Wimsey:

    Only the hardcore fans would recognize him after all of this time.Even people who binge-watch it annually would not immediately recognize him:

    I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Joseph Mawle has a very distinctive and memorable face. In fact, I’d say that he’s the only actor cast as a Stark who truly resembles the ‘long-faced’ description of the Stark men in the books.

  205. We haven’t yet seen (from the trailers) what appeared to be the Mad King’s assassination. My prediction is we will see it tonight in conjunction w RA’s young Ned.

  206. Ice Spider: I think Dragonstone will have the supplies they are going to need.

    How many White Walkers are there? I dont recall there being more than a handful, maybe a dozen or two. Its the undead army that’s the problem. If you can get to the white walkers, the night king in particular, you dont need a ton of Valyrian steel or dragon glass. There aren’t that many of them.

  207. Watching Tobias Menzies in Outlander I can’t help but feel he has been underutilized on GoT. Unless Edmure has a larger role moving forward, Menzies was a rare miscast.

  209. JonFookinSnow,

    D&D wil make it simple and easy. There are other storylines that need to go through. We know that two Northern lords casted for this season will appear in one episode. Davos in what looks like Bears Island where this meeting should take the place. I heard something small on this.

    Wimsey,

    And again this. Only the Umbers Wimsey. Some small houses wouldn’t look too much into it and rather join Jon, Sansa and co. The Umbers are far in the North and the ones to deal with WIldlings all the time. It makes perrfect sense for thm to join the Boltons but they might still would like to backstab Ramsay after all is asaid and done. We can see them in trailers what looks like House Mormont, Hornwood among wildlings and Jon mentioned them. One big meeting shall do it.

  210. DireWolfHeart: We haven’t yet seen (from the trailers) what appeared to be the Mad King’s assassination. My prediction is we will see it tonight in conjunction w RA’s young Ned.

    That probably was the Mountain fighting Sparrows.

  211. weirwoodtreehugger,
    It’s a holiday weekend here in the UK as well so there should be more of us than usual on here tonight ’cos most of us get the day off tomorrow (first showing is 2am here).

    The thing I am most hyped for is The Awesome Headgear That Was Promised (Mace’s feathery helmet). I have been excited for this since we saw it in the trailers what feels like a lifetime ago. Everything else is going to be a very poor second place in terms of interest, even if aliens land or the WWs work out how to teleport and suddenly turn up everywhere south of the Wall.

    I have had a bad feeling since before the series started that Marg is going to do something, probably inadvertently, which results in Loras getting killed and I think it’ll become clearer tonight if that’s likely. If she plans to fake conversion to get out and then try and rescue him from the outside she’s going to have to be really fast about it. Unless the HS would accept ‘conversion’ from him too? (I don’t believe for one second it would be sincere from her, but possibly Loras out of desperation or Tommen as he’s a confused, easily-led kid.)

    Interesting to see who dies tonight if they are keeping up the much higher than previous series’ death rate. If it carries on like this is it’ll be easier to have a who’sstillslivepool rather than a deathpool.

  214. JonFookinSnow:
    Clob,

    I didn’t see her get the upper hand on the waif! The waif is obviously much better trained even defeating Arya with her fists.

    It certainly felt that way to me in episode three though. Right after she replied, “Which name would like a girl to speak?” she evades a hit to her leg, blocks, blocks, blocks and then smashes the Waif in the head and then blocked the Waif’s screaming overhead swing all while blind. *Queue the drums & strings beat, the defeated, pissed off Waif departs and Arya’s turns all badass to face “Jaqen.”*
    Then in last week’s episode when she could see again the Waif beat her this way and that with the stick and her fists. That’s my point – she was worse again even with the sight advantage.

  216. Geralt of Rivia,

    You cannot hang a gun on the wall without doing something with it! And the Northerners-Hate-Wildlings gun is well-hung.

    Moreover, there is the story to consider. At some point, Sansa is going to realize that she needs to suck up her pride and accept Baelish’s alliance. If too much of the North joins in too easily, then that won’t happen, and we’ll get just plot.

    Now, it is quite possible that Jon and the Wildlings will be elsewhere while Sansa and Davos try to create an alliance. That would certainly make things easier: for one thing, they would not be attacked on sight. However, the fear of what a Wildling invasion could do (and one that will be magnified way out of proportion to what the real danger is) should be a powerful motivating factor.

  217. Firannion: Having been blown away by Tobias Menzies’ acting in Outlander, I am hoping for more screentime for Edmure going forward!

    I’m going to say I can’t stand the guy on either show, but that is to say that I hate his character in both times on Outlander and thought Edmure was pathetic on GoT. Probably a sign of good acting of course, but because of that I don’t need to see him again. 😛

  220. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: How many White Walkers are there? I dont recall there being more than a handful, maybe a dozen or two. Its the undead army that’s the problem. If you can get to the white walkers, the night king in particular, you dont need a ton of Valyrian steel or dragon glass. There aren’t that many of them.

    True… AND the Dragons fire will take out the army of the dead since fire is their Achilles Heel.

    EDIT: Weren’t Crastors sons turned into WW? I mean that is what was shown on screen when the NK took that baby and turned it into a blue eyed WW. So in reality there could be over a hundred… anyone else in agreement with that number?

  221. Clob: 1. They had blind Arya appear as if she’d finally become a great fighter, getting the upper hand on the Waif (in ep3). She even got that bad-ass turn and music as she stood there straight faced. Last week even with her sight regained she was suddenly awful again. I know they used that to get in the, “you’ll never be one of us, Lady Stark,” line, but come on! I’ve been hoping for noticeable improvement… In other words, kicking the Waif’s ass.

    So I read something somewhere that theorized The Waif and Jaqen are not actually two people Arya is interacting with, but an entire series of people who are wearing the same faces. It was kind of a “oh, duh” moment for me. Like “Oh yeah, the Faceless Men. Why I am assuming just because we see the same faces, we are seeing the same people?” Though I think quite a few of the scenes show interactions between Arya and the same person wearing The Waif’s face (unless Faceless Men learn to pass on character traits and animosity instead of just their faces)– maybe every training session is not with the same training partner?

  222. Marlana,

    Since Stannis’ death, Dragonstone is apparently vacant. I think Sam will figure out this connection at The Citadel.

    Maybe Sam will be MUCH more interesting than we know now. He reminds me of Hurley, the fat guy in Lost who turned out to be super-important.

    Remember that during the Range Beyond the Wall, a passing WW looked straight at him and didn’t harm him. Looking forward to learning how Randyll reacts to him and Gilly tonight!

  223. ash,

    So that means 150% that LF was lying to Sansa considering that in the trailer we saw

    Walder Frey – happy and ALIVE

  224. So who is Tommen’s heir to the iron throne? I can’t think of anyone with a good claim from his faction…

  225. eejazz,

    If Arya hears about Melisandre raising Jon, wouldn’t you think she would have mercy (if she is Arya) or want to kill her for stealing a death (if faceless)? I would assume that she's going to leave the FM and that should take Melisandre off the list.

  227. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: How many White Walkers are there? I dont recall there being more than a handful, maybe a dozen or two

    Well, in that scene with the NK and the baby (4×04), one delivered the baby to the pedestal and then we could see the NK walking toward it with 12 Walkers mounted in a row behind him. That would be 14 at least that we could assume at that time. (This was after Sam slayed one (3×08). So after Jon killed one and Meera killed one that would leave the 12 including the NK at least. That is if they just don’t care about numbers on the show. Can we assume there are several baby Walkers?

    This reminded me of my comment above in thinking the Walkers had a base or ‘city.’ That area in the baby scene had to be it, right?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XOawFDdUsA

  230. Jinx47: So why did she remove the Red Woman from the list?

    I don’t believe the show says. Speculation, I believe, is that Arya’s need for vengeance has waned over time to only the most grievous offenders.

  231. JonFookinSnow:
    Clob,

    I think there are many more of them. And we will see many more once they breach the wall.

    There should be, right? After thousands of years you’d think they’d end up with quite a bunch.

  232. Clob,

    How is Outlander going??? I got bored in the second episode and stop watching. I might watch it again once GOT Season 6 is over.
    I didn’t pay much attention to Tobias in GOT, but I his acting was superb in Outlander with two totally different characters.
    Probably Edmure will appear and die short after as Osha. Sansa or Arya needs to inherit the Riverlands. I hope it’s possible.

  233. Ginevra,

    I think she’d consider Gendry’s loss fairly grievous. She attacked Mel and the BWB for taking him and a few minutes before she’d told Gendry she could be his family. She had the Tickler on her list for less.

    I understood that they took out Payne because of the actor’s health but I was also a little confused about her taking off Mel. Especially since she said they would meet again.

  234. Firannion: Having been blown away by Tobias Menzies’ acting in Outlander, I am hoping for more screentime for Edmure going forward!

    Starting with

    Edmure on the scaffold, the senior Frey and his whore wearing Robb’s crown being dismissed by Jaime, Sir Ilyn cutting the rope with his sword, T o Sevens ratting out the Frey convoy and the results of that, Edmure in the tent getting a bath (some equal opportunity possibilities there), the Jaime surrender or die speech, and at the end the Blackfish escaping.

    Pure Thrones and one ensemble after the other. I would truly love that sequence.

  237. Jinx47: I thought Tywin did it on the show’s 2nd season with no problem?

    A few blacksmiths know how to “rework” or recast it, but supposedly no one knows how to forge it (leading theory being that the fire necessary to forge it is Dragon fire, combined maybe with a binding spell or two…)

  238. Hopefully B. Cogman does a good job of new material, not his strongest suit in my opinion. Looking forward to Tarlys, and keeping my fingers crossed for Drogon. Please, please, please Drogon! Also Bran-Meera. Not been a huge fan of KL for a while, hope, but I am very interested this episode. Hopefully, we get a rest from Sansa; it’s been too much Sansa for my liking.

  240. HS:
    Something to watch in the mean time, they are really positive videos that mostly focus on the show, they do explore book angles, and give theories and speculation, but overall they are not distracted by differences. I really like how these videos really explore how the production/directors/showrunners are setting up the scenes and imagery – they point out the little things that you might miss and really give you a better appreciation to how great this show is and how much thought is being put into each scene and camera shot.

    Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 5 ANALYZED! – 6×05 – The Door

    If you have time check out their earlier episodes too, the Daeny setup in ep3 with the fire was particularly reveling – missed all that. Great stuff.

    Thanks for posting, will have a look

    An aspect often lost on book readers is that visual mediums like movies and TV shows have to explore and approach things differently, there’s different cues and often I’ve noticed they become so agitated at ultimately issues that aren’t a massive deal they are missing things

    Also, themes often take a few episodes to play out

    Looking forward to Blood of my Blood

  241. RG: I was also a little confused about her taking off Mel. Especially since she said they would meet again.

    I would not read too much into it. They could not spend too much time on her reciting the list. The important parts might have been bringing up Frey again (although the name is not so useful as Filch’s face), and Arya’s love/hate relationship with the Hound.

    Knight of the Walkers: That’s what my girlfriend told me last night.

    Ah, a consolation speech? That was very sweet of her….
    😀

    Clob: There should be, right? After thousands of years you’d think they’d end up with quite a bunch.

    Not if they have been dormant all of this time. Indeed, they almost have to have been: otherwise, they would have overrun the North.

    Watchers of no Trailers: So who is Tommen’s heir to the iron throne? I can’t think of anyone with a good claim from his faction…

    That never comes up in the books or on the show. In the books, we do get a bit about Matthew Crowley analogs who are heirs to the Starks and the Arryns, i.e., 2nd or 3rd cousins. However, this never comes up for the Baratheons.

    My bet is that it will not be an issue. Yes, Tommen is going to die: but Daeny will be swooping in to seize control when it happens. Of course, by that point, the White Walkers might be in Westeros and they might even have caused enough of a panic that the south will realize that something is happening, even if it is just a major Wildling invasion. So, it could be a backburner issue for Lannister, I mean, Baratheon supporters.

  242. LyannaBanna,

    I think Sam will be vital for intel. Sam will let Gendry know how to fabricate Valyrian steel. Sam may gather obsidian or cause it to be harvested and formatted. Sam will also come up with needed history that will reveal the true enemies of life. Sam also had a vision

    that he was feasting his buddies at horn hill and they were all wearing colored clothes. (No longer NW black.) After the feast, he went to bed with Gilly.

    So you have a lot of Sam to look forward to.

  243. El German:
    Markus Stark,

    I think I’m probably the only one who enjoy every story line in the show/books. Except Dorne, that was shit.

    I’m with you on that, both Book AND Show Dorne.

    I personally love the Ironborn…

    The Danny storyline in Dance could have used an editor standing up to George and should have been cut in half…

  244. Ginevra,

    Lol.. thanks for picking up the pieces of my bungled attempt… I see Ghosts Lunch mentions it as well above this post.

  245. George: A few blacksmiths know how to “rework” or recast it, but supposedly no one knows how to forge it (leading theory being that the fire necessary to forge it is Dragon fire, combined maybe with a binding spell or two…)

    That forging is one of the secrets Sam will find out in The Citadel, I hope!

    Edit: I see Marlana thinks the same!

  247. Clob,

    Before Craster, how’d they get new WWs? There are no women to be seen. So if its just from Craster’s boys, its 99, I think I saw once

  250. I cant wait for the previously on…

    Once it shows Benjen in that, we know for sure he’s coming back

  251. Connor: I wonder if we will see Gilly all dressed up and out of those dirty clothes this episode?

    That will be fun because Hannah is really pretty out of those tatters she has to wear. I hope Sam’s mother and sister take to Gilly easily, and defend her against the old man. The preview showed Sam with clean, neatly combed hair, so I’m assuming they’re going to fix up Gilly, too. Can’t wait.

  253. Mag: How is Outlander going???

    I put season 2 aside after GoT’s premiere, so just three episodes into S2. I thought season 1 started a little slow, then I really liked it, then not so much the end. I haven’t really cared for the start of season 2 either. I’d read brief summaries of the books so that’s what I expected. The story kind of moves away from what I’d like it to but I think I can binge it this summer anyway.

  254. Rawr. Nearly there. Gone from beer to coffee. We got hodor, jon snow and targ t-shirts on. Ep 4 is winding up I’ve timed it just right. Proper tired but bank holiday 2moro n_n hope you all enjoy I look forward to reading all your stuffs after WOOH!!

  255. Mag,

    I really disliked the books (which is weird for me, because the subject – medieval+British Isle+time travel is rather up my alley, but really didn’t like her writing) Decided I’d try the series. Nope, just didn’t work for me (only watched one episode to be fair).

    Marlana,

    Yes, thats one of my favorite parts of the book

    Ghosts Lunch,

    An aspect often lost on book readers is that visual mediums like movies and TV shows have to explore and approach things differently, there’s different cues and often I’ve noticed they become so agitated at ultimately issues that aren’t a massive deal they are missing things

    I think most of us do know that. There are a few that give us a bad name unfortunately. and I don’t even see that much of it here,any more

  256. the Ironborn are the closest thing to barbarians in the Asoiaf…imho.
    fitting for them to have a “squid” on their mainsail, as stated in DoD…

  257. Ser Lurk of House Turnip:
    Rawr. Nearly there. Gone from beer to coffee. We got hodor, jon snow and targ t-shirts on. Ep 4 is winding up I’ve timed it just right. Proper tired but bank holiday 2moro n_n hope you all enjoy I look forward to reading all your stuffs after WOOH!!

    Don’t forgot snacks. Holiday for me too in the US! Memorial Day.

  260. Wimsey: calling the Weirnet sacking long before anyone else. Do you think that CH will survive it in the book? Or perhaps be “reclaimed?”

    Thx. I am very happy with my 2% plot speculation success rate for non-book/pre-book activities! 🙂

    I hope CH, who is probably managed by BR, will have a key post-BR purpose in Bran’s tale.

    Have fun with ep6, all! Let’s see how well Cogman and Bender collaborate!

  261. ash:
    Clob,

    Before Craster, how’d they get new WWs? There are no women to be seen. So if its just from Craster’s boys, its 99, I think I saw once

    I guess we can’t say they didn’t have a way to attain babies prior to Craster. There may have been others that made sacrifices over the years.

    According to the books they’ve been around for over 8,000 years so that’s a lot of time to ‘make’ new ones. The Night’s King is also thought to have married an Other that he made his queen and made ‘sacrifices’ to the Others, so in books legend there may have been females at one time.

  262. ÓliG:
    the Ironborn are the closest thing to barbarians in the Asoiaf…imho.
    fitting for them to have a “squid” on their mainsail, as stated in DoD…

    Over the Dothraki? They are pretty much the definition of barbarians.

  263. dan: then you are retarded because she wasn’t found guilty for incest and murder, just adultery.

    On behalf of all who have developmentally disabled loved ones, I am asking you (nicely, the first time) to desist from using ‘retarded’ as a term of insult. Not cool.

  264. If the slowness of today’s open chat has been any indicator then we may have to expect a drop in ratings this week. Not that it matters. I was expecting it anyway due to the holiday.

  268. HS,

    I discovered these videos a few weeks ago (and posted a link in some thread). I enjoy them a lot. In fact on Sundays I’m waiting to see if the caught something I did not or come up with some fun theory or prediction.

  274. Markus Stark,

    A nice scene between Tyrion and Jorah, a genius scene between Cersei and Olenna, the hall of faces is shown for the first time, and the imo, beautifully shot/directed wedding in Winterfell. There is quite much to like.

    Only Dorne is bad, partly because of the bad directing/choreography (Dorne being badly written is not just Bryan’s fault, because Dorne is bad in the whole season)

  276. Connor,

    Hahah. Don’t they all ? After all, we spend 42 weeks a year waiting for GoT, and then for 10 weeks a year we spend 6 days and 23 hours waiting for the new episode. Our year is spent waiting for 10 hours of entertainment spread out over as many weeks.

    Given those parameters, how could the season not fly by ? Sigh. So freaking sad.

  281. Connor:
    TFT,

    Speaking of Dorne, I don’t think we will see it again until the season finale.

    A good possibility. Everybody wins. LOL 🙂

  283. Whoo hoo! Almost time!

    On the Other’s city, it appears to be the same henge area that the CotF were at when the first one was made. Apparently, the far north didn’t used to be a tundra climate? Did the Children use too much magic in attempt to defeat the First Men, causing permanent climate change, and perhaps the long winter?

    On the Baratheon succession, I think in the books Edric Storm is potentially viable. He’s a bastard, but his mom is high born and he grew up surrounded by aristocracy, unlike Gendry. But that would be contentious among the Westrosi house, for sure. In the show there’s really no one. In either the show or the book, Tommen’s death would definitely cause some major chaos. Which is why it’s sadly inevitable.

    As to what Sam is going to see at the Citadel, I’m really keen on that obsidian candle and what it means. I hope it’s in the show.

  284. Dee:
    Just did a rewatch of the door
    Balling again

    I know. I rewatched when it reaired last night. Yeah, depressed all over again. Thanks GoT, because I need sleep and happiness. 🙂

  285. I’m smiling my ass off right now. I always do before a new Game of Thrones episode lmao.

  286. Markus Stark:
    Connor,

    May the Mother have mercy on us all.

    The problem is going to be next season when

    Dany lands in Dorne. They join up with her and we will be seeing more of them. When Dorne goes to war with the Lannisters. MWWAAAHHHH!

    🙂

  287. Clob,

    Yup, big ratings drop to be expected, as usual on Memorial weekend, though given the epicness of last week, it may not be as big a drop as it was last year.
    I’d say the episode will pull in 7 million on first airing.

  290. Thronetender: That will be fun because Hannah is really pretty out of those tatters she has to wear.

    I think she’s pretty even in those tatters 🙂

  292. So far, at least one named character that’s been around for multiple seasons has died in every episode.

    Who will be the one to die this episode?

    Given the focus on KL this episode, I’m guessing it’ll be a character from KL. My guesses for the deaths this episode (from most likely to least likely) are:

    Loras Tyrell
    Mace Tyrell (yes, now!)
    Olenna Tyrell
    Grand Maester Prycelle
    Kevan Lannister
    Tome Baratheon (he’s dead king walking, but I don’t think it’ll be this episode, not yet)

  294. I’ve been lurking for over a year, but had to comment today. My MIL is here for the night, and she doesn’t watch, which means I won’t see tonight’s episode until tomorrow. Dying a little inside right now. Happy viewing everyone!

  296. Wonder how many minutes of Daenerys being Daenerys, that is muh dragonz, muh titles, muh lands, muh throne….

  302. yarnmule:
    I’ve been lurking for over a year, but had to comment today. My MIL is here for the night, and she doesn’t watch, which means I won’t see tonight’s episode until tomorrow. Dying a little inside right now. Happy viewing everyone!

    OMG. How will your survive? How will you survive the spoilers? Just kidding. Family comes first.

  308. Angela: OMG. How will your survive? How will you survive the spoilers? Just kidding. Family comes first.

    PFFFT! Not when it comes to GoT.

  314. Hell YES!!!

    We’re going to see the Freys!!! :oD

    …and a expect a Pygmallien moment for Gilly.

    and have No Idea what’s going to happen at King’s Landing!!

    Enjoy All :o)

  321. Yee haaaaw Mother ****ers!!! The Mad King!!! Damn, we will have fun replaying all those visions all damned week. Hooray for visions!!! Look at them !!!!

  325. Poor Sam … A person just doesn’t feel welcome at that point … omg this is going to be rough for him.

  327. Hmmmm…and someone gave me shit earlier when I said I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw a flashback of the Mad King. BOOM. Veryyyy interesting how that was included in the flash of visions!!

  344. Huh, evidently I underestimated how much Westerosi hate the Wildlings! I would have expected such vehemence from a northerner, but not a southerner.

  353. Damn, I suppose we’re going to have to wait til next week for the Arya vs Waif showdown. I knew that b-word just wanted to kill Arya. Yeah, she’s worthy. Sarcasm

  354. Clob,

    I see 2 practical problems with WW females becoming impregnated.

    1) Friction melts ice. WW male + WW female + copulation = ? (left as an exercise to the reader)
    2) Sperm ice cubes would make it difficult to fertilize the egg

  359. The Tyrell army marches like the army of the wicked witch of the east.

    The High Sparrow sucks!!!!!!!

  370. Benjen – LOL, I’m waiting for the rest of you to lose your minds. By all the Gods, you guys were right, it’s Benjen!!

  380. If I had to vote for two actors in a supporting role now I would have give in to Lady Trane and to Walder Frey. Superb acting! Maisie is doing her best season in my opinion. And Lord Tarly was a great cast and hope to see him as a lead next season….

  385. Wow…what an episode. Every time I think I have my new favorite of the season, the next episode blows me away!

  386. Hmmm … that end scene felt lack-luster and a bit ridicu-lassy!
    (…and I love Emilia and Dany) ..just didn’t feel that was needed.

    (I guess I must Truly let go of LS as I really thought that was how the show was going to end this episode)

    Will still watch again for the Sam & Arya scenes, Enjoyed those.

    Guess I was expecting too much after last week but sure there will be some joys to unearth on a rewatch 🙂

  387. Lots of North action in the next episode. Need more Jon doing and saying things!!!!!

  388. Icekhione,

    You have to state it every time you bubble it, that is that it’s your opinion. You are watching a show just for a few scenes. I feel so sorry for you…because it must be painful…

  390. They’re really shoving that Stronk Womyn Sansa down our throats. It’s getting too forced. She sounds unnatural.

  392. HereBeDragons,

    You guys always say that when it involves Dany,just admit you are biased and your opinion doesn’t mean shit to the general audience .

  393. Icekhione: Done and dusted. As predicted, a boring episode apart from Bran/Benjen scenes

    Are you kidding? You were bored? So sorry for you. I was enthralled, from start to finish. —

  395. Benjen! Drogon! Oh, and I’m so proud of Sam. 😀

    Don’t judge me, but I cried when Arya pulled out needle. She is Arya STARK. It is known.

    Wait, so is Benjen going to turn into a walker also? I didn’t catch what he said, I’m afraid. He did say he has dragon glass in his heart, is that right?

  398. HereBeDragons,

    Really? I felt the music made it. And I haven’t been a fan of Dany in S5/S6 so far. I love the Targ music though.

    The spirit of Jason Momoa shone through tonight.

  399. I missed The Blackfish.

    This ep was boring, except for Bran. Bring on the next one.

  402. Was that the Hound in the next preview? They only showed his legs and there were dead bodies on the ground.

  403. Sam,

    He was going to turn into one, but then the Children of the Forest stopped that from happening, I think thats what he was saying. He has dragon glass in his heart, so basically he is undead?

    I need Alt Shift X right about now…

  404. WHOOOOOOOO

    The Mad King!
    Blackfish!
    Grand theft Heartsbane!
    Tick tock Walder Frey…
    UNCLE BENJEN COLDHANDS REBOOT!!

    OT Drogon is huuuuuge

  405. Did I forget something, or is this a Game of Thrones episode where no one except the wights were killed?

  407. Fucking Great episode!!!!
    I didn’t think I was going to love it this much, Randyll Tarly was bloody intense, amazing job to the actor.
    Loved Bravos, things are heating up.
    The score this week was great, and Welcome back Uncle Ben 🙂
    Loved that final scene with Dany riding Drogon choosing everyone to be her blood riders, FUCKING WALDER FREY!!!!
    god I missed him in a strange way XD

  413. Nice episode

    Randyll Tarly!!!! Completely owned the entire season

    Good intro by Benjen Hands, seem to have merged the characters IMO

    Liked the way the talk of the NK then leads to her, seems Bran may be just as important in stopping her as much as the Night’s King

    Nice speech though, good time to give it on Dragonback instead of Horseback

    KL drama quite something, great to hear about how Riverrun politics has been developing, eg the rebellious RL Houses

    Interesting to see Jaimie is no longer LC of the KG, does this mean he’s been given the Lord of Casterly Rock title or is that still Cersei?

    Cersei probably won’t mind, she seems intent on the Queen role and they never played it up

    Seems to be crumbling for them

  416. It was a good episode.

    I loved the Tarly scenes so much. They did very good casting because those actors were so good. The actor who played Randyll Tarly scared the crap out of me.

    Arya can’t be No One. She is a Stark and nothing will change that at all.

    OMG. Benjen Stark is back.

    We got to see some Freys and Edmure. I can’t wait for next week with the BF at RR.

    The HS was ready for the Tyrell army and outwitted them. I knew something was up when Tommen told Cersei about the Walk of Shame.

    The ending with Dany was awesome. Holy crap.

    This season is so good.

  418. Great episode. Those who say it was boring, please go watch a Marvel film or something as we watch an amazing story unfold.

  420. ps… We DID see King Aerys in those quick-fire flashbacks, didn’t we???

    …off to rewatch those :o)

  421. HEARTSBANE!!!!!!!!
    loved the Sword Design <3
    Randyll Tarly was exactly how I pictured him to be, brilliant job 🙂

  422. It was okay, I really liked Jaime’s scenes, but more for what they bode for the future than anything. And seeing Benjen was awesome, as were the flashbacks (Mad King!!). Also, Walder Frey was great, in a hateful way. But I definitely think this was a weaker episode of the season.

    Next week looks amazing though.

  423. Flayed Potatoes,

    Don’t count on it. Jon’s just there to tag along, stand in the background all silent like, then swing his sword a couple times. They abandoned any character development for him.

  425. Flayed Potatoes:
    Lots of North action in the next episode. Need more Jon doing and saying things!!!!!

    I missed him and the rest of the dire wolf pack in this episode but it’s okay. The other story lines needed to move ahead as well. So hyped for the next episode. The north remembers!

  426. Didn’t George said in his letter that Benjen is not Coldhands. But I like this.

  432. Solid episode. I just wasn’t a fan of the ending. It was clear that the Dothraki were already on Dany’s side, and we’ve been wow’ed by dragons more than twice. Didn’t seem very climactic to me, especially since the group had < 5min of total screen time, and nothing new was accomplished.

    Minor complaint aside, lots of great stuff in this episode. I'm especially excited about Arya's storyline, although annoyingly it looks like we may not be getting that until EP8 judging by the preview….

  435. Geralt of Rivia: He hates everyone. Even himself.

    Oh, I doubt that. I think that Randyl Tarley likes himself and his 2nd son just fine.

    weirwoodtreehugger: On the Baratheon succession, I think in the books Edric Storm is potentially viable. He’s a bastard, but his mom is high born and he grew up surrounded by aristocracy, unlike Gendry.

    Some 2nd or 3rd cousin would be next in line. In this sort of society (much like western society until very recently), bastards are considered inherently inferior to legitimate children. The fact that the mother was high born made little difference: there would always be the air of suspicion over who the father really was simply because the child’s mother had been willing to have sex with a man who was not her husband.

  437. DireWolfHeart,

    Sam,

    He did seem to confirm that. I would guess that the Children modified whatever conversion magic they had to allow him to keep his free will, or at least some self awareness and the ability to follow 3ER’s orders.

  440. Connor,

    “As Long as I am standing the war is not over”. Now that is interesting!
    and
    “Our two ancient houses face collapse because of your stupidity”…
    Can’t wait…

  442. Despite the published schedule, seems they decided to go ahead and take Memorial Day off this year.

    Bit of a filler episode, not much happened other than the return of Benjen. It would be shocking if they could keep the season at the level of the last four.

  443. This episode felt like a transition from the first half of the season to the second half. Still good, just not a ton going on.

    A few thoughts:

    1) I wouldn’t be shocked if Tommen, High Sparrow, Walder Frey, and Ramsey Bolton all died by the end of the season.

    2) We had an episode with Benjen and The Mad King. Awesome!

    3) With the Tommen stuff, what I found the most interesting is that both Margery & Kevan didn’t try and talk him out of it. Makes me think they each have their own agenda….

  444. Connor,

    It was Sandor’s feet in 0:30!! While the voiceover said ‘and the dead’. Gravedigger hype!! (and he was walking on a ground strewn with corpses).

  445. As for next week, it’s a little tricky as they are merging Sansa’s Vale and then RL ascension arc with Jons ascension arc

    A real juggling act

    My guess is we’ll have Davos on behalf of book Rickons spirit win some over (Mormonts by the looks of it), Sansa will win some over (House Cerwyn? As she can relate to Ramsay?), Jon will win some over on top of the Wildlings etc, so expect about 3 to 4 Houses?

  446. HereBeDragons:
    ps… We DID see King Aerys in those quick-fire flashbacks, didn’t we???

    …off to rewatch those :o)

    Yes, he was screaming “BURN THEM ALL”, and we got a veeery fast flash of him on the Iron Throne.

  447. HereBeDragons,

    Agree on the Dany thing. I never felt she was that good of a ruler, a great conqueror, horrible ruler. I’m all for strong women (love the new Sansa) and Dany burning down patriarchy was awesome, but seriously this scene was completely unnecessary. You could cut out that scene and it does literally nothing to the episode and I would put money on it would do nothing to the season either.

    It was a speech for the sake of giving a speech and that annoys me

  450. Pizdainpula,

    LMAO you bothered to reply to me, twice now, you obviously give a shit, hypocrite.

    Learn to deal with the fact not everyone will share your opinion. Or are you too petty to handle differing opinions? Those who found the episode boring have all the right in the world to think that. It’s all a matter of taste. Deal with it.

  453. Geralt of Rivia: Didn’t George said in his letter that Benjen is not Coldhands. But I like this.

    Coldhands and Benjen might well have met the same fate. Benjen’s men were killed by White Walkers, so Benjen must have been exposed to him. The Walkers do not seem to keep prisoners.

    I do find it interesting that Bran now has graduated to “Three Eyed Raven.” In the original outline, Bran was supposed to become a powerful wizard. This seems to be another case where the path changed, but the destination did not.

  454. Flashes of the Mad King (finally).
    Arya wakes up (finally).
    Dany solidifies her power base.
    Walder Frey is back in the picture and seems to be desperate.
    Edmure Tully is back and he’s pissed.
    Jaime’s off on a quest and *he’s* pissed.
    Uncle freaking Benjen’s back!!
    The High Sparrow now rules the Seven Kingdoms!!!

    And how can we forget Sam growing a pair and snatching poor daddy’s Valyrian Steel sword? I was so proud when he came back in the room…

    No, this wasn’t a Hardhome or a Watchers on the Wall or a Blackwater or even Hold the Door… but man oh man, did tonight move the story along. Wow.

    Haters can hate, whatever – this episode was amazing!

  455. I’m going to say it…

    This is my favorite episode of the season. That was probably my favorite Dany scene of all time and I love seeing new places and returning characters and we got Horn Hill, Benjen, Walder, and Edmure!

    I’m glad some of the other storylines got more screentime this week. Much needed.

    Easily the best season so far.

    And the Mad King!

  456. And with that speech to the Dothraki warriors, now I’m entertaining the possibility that Danny is turning into a villain after all.

    She’s in full Aegon the Conqueror/ Alexander the Great mode now.

    The Riverlands have entered full “Feast for Crows mode” judging from this and the next episode preview.

    Surprisingly, I liked the Sam & Gilly show. I really dug Gilly’s “Cinderella” moments.

    Heartsbane name drop!

    When is the last time Dinklage wasn’t in an episode??

    “Mercy” chapter name drop!

    No Jojen paste for Bran…but apparently he needs rabbit’s blood?!

    They dropped Coldhands from the show but gave his potential story to Benjen…Benhands? Coldjen?

    Very good writing in this episode. Kudos to Brian!

    Tommen is a Dead Man Walking, he’s gonna die before the season ends. The High Sparrow too, btw.

    8.5/10

    Small beef: To me, Horn Hill looked more like Highgarden than Horn Hill…oh well.

  457. I thought the last scene with Drogon was kind of cheesy and the CGI was painfully obvious. Dany’s EPIC episode ending scenes this season have not triggered much emotion from me like they used to… and I really wish I didn’t feel that way, I swear.

    But VERY satisfying to see/hear what’s up with Walder Frey, Benjen and Edmure….show-wise, I mean. 🙂

    Loved getting a peek at the family Tarly dynamic- I was fascinated! Hannah Murray was so wonderful in those scenes.

    Did not love the absence of The North storyline though, but oh well….I think I can survive until next week!

  459. Honestly, such a weird mix of awesome and ok. Benjen/CH (poor dear), Aerys, Randyll, Edmure (!) were fantastic. Dany I love you but stop yelling. ? Jaime you may make me smack you. Looking forward to Blackfish and Bronn next week!

  461. Geralt of Rivia:
    Didn’t George said in his letter that Benjen is not Coldhands. But I like this.

    George also spent the last decade putting the main characters on the back burner while he introduced a legion of new characters who slowed down the entire story.

    Streamlined is great at this stage in the game (no pun intended). They have set up the pieces in the TV show. Now it is time to get to a logical conclusion.

  462. Do you all think Margery is up to something? I just don’t think she is just willingly giving over to the high sparrow.

    Just wondering what you guys thought?

  463. Jack Bauer 24:

    And the Mad King!

    Someone needs to freeze frame all those Bran Visions ASAP…there were a bunch of them, not just the Mad King…

    Did D&D stole those Mad King bits from the original pilot?! LOL

  465. HereBeDragons,

    Yes. It was all fast. But the editing made it sound like he had a point – Bran was watching armies of wights, and ‘Burn them all’ is exactly what needed to be done. Makes me wonder if there is some truth in those theories about Bran or Bloodraven warging into Aerys causing him to go mad.

  467. So… I’ll be the first to bring it up. The Frey’s mentioned the Brotherhood raiding their lands, supply lines etc..

    Anyone have renewed hope for

    LADY STONEHEART!!

  468. I enjoyed the episode. We knew it would be way less intense than last week. They seem to be in an every other week insane/breathe mode which I am fine with. We need time absorb the pieces being set, then seeing those pieces explode. Next week looks great, 8 should set up our usual amazing 9th episode, then the always devastating 10th because we know our watch begins again. I can understand some people’s complaints, I may not agree, but hey great shows draw debate which I’m fine with. I do believe in my opinion binge watching this season when its over from start to finish without the week break, it will be a strong argument for best season of the series.

  470. HereBeDragons: ps… We DID see King Aerys in those quick-fire flashbacks, didn’t we???

    Ironically, yes! I write “ironically,” because there was a scene in the season trailer that many people concluded was Jaime stabbing Aerys. And: lo! We just saw it! However: it was a completely different scene that in the season trailer.

  471. Flayed Potatoes,

    What? You didn’t appreciate Arya reclaiming her name? The Starks were really good this episode. Also loved seeing Edmure again, though seeing Walder makes my blood boil.

  472. if the unsullied are any indication of how bad ass the armies of essos can be, the dothraki would get butchered by any army of westeros.

  473. I could barely take the “Previously On” without crying again.

    Benjen. Called it. If Gendry pops back up before season’s end, my joy will be complete. For a year anyway.

    But back to Uncle Ben and what else he revealed. That holds some interesting promise.

    Dany, I love ya, but the houses of the kingdoms are not your real enemy. And don’t go mucking around in peoples’ lives if you don’t know how to hold it, or risk being worse than the wheel. She has Tyrion and Varys, but she’s the one who wants to rule.

  474. Essie Davies and James Faulkner acted circles around everyone in this episode with very limited time they have got. Is this the last we seen of them both??? That would be such a waste and shame.

  476. gilly and sam suck (gilly so much more tho) and took up way to much screen time. there i said it.

  478. Hodors Bastard,

    Were you as surprised as I was to hear a southern lord speak so vehemently about Wildlings? I would have thought that southerners would have considered them a minor nuisance that “real” Lords could easily handle, given the contempt in which southerners seem to hold northerners.

  480. Wimsey,

    In the other words. He’s just that miserable.

    They just mixed them up and I do like it. Coldhands as supposed to be thousand years old or so. It’s interesting that Bran or part of him is no longer Bran Stark but 3ER. Also that Benjen worked with Three Eyed Raven for years and CotF saved him with the dagger to his heart. The same way they crated White Walkers.

    The Bastard,

    LIke I said. I like this BenjenHands twist. Makes sense and hopefully we’ll get some conversations until they reach the Wall. Benjen knows some things about Bran and his purpose.

  481. eejazz:

    Minor complaint aside, lots of great stuff in this episode. I’m especially excited about Arya’s storyline, although annoyingly it looks like we may not be getting that until EP8 judging by the preview….

    Arya is included in episode 7 according the short synopsis.

  482. Connor:
    Sam,

    He was going to turn into one, but then the Children of the Forest stopped that from happening, I think thats what he was saying. He has dragon glass in his heart, so basically he is undead?

    I need Alt Shift X right aboutnow…

    Yeah, we definitely need Alt Shift X pronto! 🙂

  485. ET:
    Do you all think Margery is up to something? I just don’t think she is just willingly giving over to the high sparrow.

    Just wondering what you guys thought?

    She is absolutely up to something. She tried to gauge where Tommen was when she first talked to him. Once she realized he was lost to the High Sparrow, she said exactly what he wanted to hear. But she isn’t stupid….

  486. I went back thru bran’s visions frame by frame. There’s a little inside the ToJ. Just see Leanna soaked in blood and Ned’s bloody hand… But still!! Hype!! It’s coming!!!

    Also, the Areys scenes of him screaming “burn them all” chopped up with WW visions, got me thinking maybe the theory of bran messing with the mad King is true?

  487. The Bastard: 3) With the Tommen stuff, what I found the most interesting is that both Margery & Kevan didn’t try and talk him out of it. Makes me think they each have their own agenda….

    Well, when you think from Kevan or Margaery’s point of view, Tommen saved a lot of lives. What do they care if Cersei and Jaime are no longer in power? To them, they deal with the sparrows or deal with the incest twins. Sparrows had Lancel and Loras, so making peace with the sparrows was the better option. If there was to be violence, Lancel would have died, so Kevan can’t complain. I would not be surprised if Kevan betrayed Cersei by tipping off their plan to High Septon (for Lancel’s safety). This would also give her reason to have him killed.

    But I don’t think Margaery is done with the Faith. This peace is temporary, and she will (try to) get back at the Faith when the opportunity arises.

  489. Flayed Potatoes:
    Lots of North action in the next episode. Need more Jon doing and saying things!!!!!

    This being Jon’s biggest season sounds like total BS now. It’s just one battle for him, still hoping you are right.

  490. Poor old Benjen, he is undead, been North of the Wall for years. He must know about everything that went down while he was gone.

  491. Well that was as expected. A set-up episode.
    also… did ANYONE die?? Other than the Wights?! I mean seriously??
    It was a whole lot of set-up. Shame all the twists were called / discussed already which sort of takes away from the episode.
    Still it wasnt a bad episode but nowhere near as good as previous weeks.
    Also… Aerys! Will we get Rhaegar?!

  493. I liked how they didn’t tame down Randal Tarley. In the first season they said he was a horribly hard and mean person. And they didn’t tone it down when he finally made an appearance.

  494. ET:
    Do you all think Margery is up to something? I just don’t think she is just willingly giving over to the high sparrow.

    Just wondering what you guys thought?

    I do think she’s pretending, I just don’t know what game she’s playing…

  495. Jinx47,

    I totally agree and David Bradley too. But Essie was incredible good. And I hope that we will see her again. If I remember well Arya will travel to Westeros with the theatre group.

  496. The Bastard: She is absolutely up to something.She tried to gauge where Tommen was when she first talked to him.Once she realized he was lost to the High Sparrow, she said exactly what he wanted to hear.But she isn’t stupid….

    Margaery’s primary concern is the fate of her brother. Considering that this never came up in the episode except for brief comments, I’m 99% sure she’s faking her devotion and is going to use her newfound powers with the Faith to free Loras.

    Of course, whether she and Loras make it out with their skins intact is something completely different. I wouldn’t be surprised to see both of them and Tommen fall before the end of the season… which of course will drive Cersei completely over the edge…

  497. Jinx47:
    Essie Davies and James Faulkner acted circles around everyone in this episode with very limited time they have got. Is this the last we seen of them both??? That would be such a waste and shame.

    I hope not.

  500. All I have to say is BEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNJEEEEEEEEN… wooooot effing wooot.. but for me hands down the MOST EPIC moment was Dany riding in on Drogon.. wow.. I had chills up and down my spine. That was just FANTASTIC.

    Everything was on point for me …. just overall amazing show. I was loving it all. So much to absorb going for my second watch.

  502. Any screens hots on brand vision. All I really caught was the wildfire and couldn’t tell if it was an old shot. Surprised people are calling it filler. It was a very dense episode info wise. I was impressed with the way they setup the second half of the season.

  503. Bluestreaking:
    HereBeDragons,

    Agree on the Dany thing. I never felt she was that good of a ruler, a great conqueror, horrible ruler. I’m all for strong women (love the new Sansa) and Dany burning down patriarchy was awesome, but seriously this scene was completely unnecessary. You could cut out that scene and it does literally nothing to the episode and I would put money on it would do nothing to the season either.

    It was a speech for the sake of giving a speech and that annoys me

    Actually it kind of worked thematically as a follow on from the Bran-Meera-Benjen scene

    Eg the Doom of the NK with his hordes of Wights coming to destroy everything and then onto Dany…with her machinations of descending onto Westeros with her hordes of Dothraki to destroy everything

    Perhaps no accident we saw our very first glimpse of the Mad King with “burn them all!” as Dany’s Targaryen coin flips to tyrant!

    Bran better be ready for the both of them!

    As for Sansa, similar thing, like I’ve said elsewhere it’s a juggling act but IMO she’ll take over the North and Vale and rule like a tyrant out of Harrenhall so the assertiveness will slowly turn into something more “sinister” or LFesque

  504. Benjenhands!! I love it.

    Another awesome ep I was glued throughout. Felt longer than 52 minutes too

    Need to watch it again but must sleep 😮

  505. I’m going to need Jon to get to do and say things next episode. It seems like everyone else is getting his plot or whatever. Pls do speeches and convincing.

    I’m also going to need a breakdown of Bran’s visions. Give me all the screencaps!

    Did Baby Sam just grow up?

    Lyanna Mormont hype! Blackfish hype! Bran vs NK hype!

  507. Dee,

    I’d been trying really hard to curb my expectations of seeing Benjen. It just…it seemed so clear we would, but that’s never a guarantee. I was almost certain those were his eyes in the first scene, but, still, I told myself…don’t count on it, just don’t. When he said to Bran, “the last time I saw you…” I squealed, jumped up off the couch, landed back on it, started hitting the couch with my fists and going “wooo-hooo” so loudly, the cat ran into the other room, and the neighbors probably thought I was watching a sporting event. 🙂

  508. Weakest episode of the season, but season 6 is really amazing, so it doesn’t mean too much. Not suprized that it slowed down a bit before craziness begins. Anyway, the KL-stuff confused me a bit. Did Margerey convert Tommen? But Margerey was just playing the HS, right? Or not? Benjen was nice re-introduction. I am beginning to real dig the Bravoos story, and am looking very much forward to seeing The Waif and Arya face off. Best part of the episode, were the scenes at Horn Hill. Randyll Tarly is perfectly cast, in fact the whole family was really cast. It’s the same with the theater-troup and it’s really impressive how they introduce a new large group of characters and they’re all so perfectly cast. I predict once the season is over, this episode with stand as the ‘The Night Lands,’ ‘Dark Wings, Dark Words’ and ‘The House of Black and White’ of season 6.

  509. Margeary is so faking it.

    Tywin is smiling in his grave at Jamie no longer being a Kingsguard. And that’s like the second time he smiles. Third tops.

    I wish the Edmure reveal had been the ending. A bit predictable, but not as annoying as Danny’s speech. Yeyy, I’m bringing an army of rapists back home, conquering the shit out of them. That’s gonna be great. Anyone else think it’s no coincidence it was the first time they showed us the mad king?

  510. Getting a little tired of the brooding Cersei routine. She really needs to die.

    Still a great episode. Heartsbane and Horn Hill were awesome, Benhands was cool and we finally got a look at the Mad King. That must have been from the original pilot’s scrapped footage.

  511. Loved it. Mace in feathers. Arya with needle lying in wait for for the Waif. Randyll Tarly is just horrible. Tommen is a tool.

    Welcome back to Walder Frey and his miserable family, Edmure and, of course, Uncle Benjen.

    And Sam has Heartsbane!

  512. what does jorah do if he stops his greyscale and has to go back and attack westeros and possible meet up with members of his house? gods, dany is evil. and can we start talking about her bad parenting skills? what real mother shows such favoritism to 1 of 3 kids

  513. DireWolfHeart:
    aabe,

    The person does seem to be walking with a pronounced limp or shuffling gait…

    Would be fun if they showed a flashback with Ian McShane hiding behind a rock while Hound and Brienne fought.

  515. It’s becoming even more clear….

    Jon Snow…. With the White Walkers, Wildlings, The North, Vale, & Riverlands.

    vs.

    Dany Targ…. With the dragons, Dothraki, Unsullied, and Dorne.

    Still can’t figure out how the Lannisters and Tyrells fit into the final battle. Should be interesting…..

    As a side note, the show keeps beating us over the head with the fact that Dany will make a better conqueror then ruler. It is Jon Snow who is the person who brings people together the best. I think it will be Tyrion changing sides that will win Jon the final battle.

  517. Connor:
    Sam,

    He was going to turn into one, but then the Children of the Forest stopped that from happening, I think thats what he was saying. He has dragon glass in his heart, so basically he is undead?

    I need Alt Shift X right aboutnow…

    Well for the 3ER and the CoTF to save BenJen.. he best have some damn good reason to be back in the show.. Im so dang HYPED he’s back… wow.. this was just awesome show.. how in the HECK can anyone say boring????? Really? Are you watching the same show?

  518. I’m frightened for Sam. Randyll was already going to kill him just because Sam was Sam. Now that he’s taken the treasured family sword, won’t Randyll send a search and destroy party after him? Jeez, that dinner was worse for Sam than I thought it would be. And Dickon was kind of a dick, too. Although, if he had shown Sam any mercy, the old man would have been all in his face, too, for showing mercy to a weakling or something stupid like that. And here I thought Randyll was going to be marching into KL, but I guess not.

  519. ET:
    Do you all think Margery is up to something? I just don’t think she is just willingly giving over to the high sparrow.

    Just wondering what you guys thought?

    She is pretending to get her brother out of jail. I think it is totally fake and is playing a game with the HS. As soon as Loras is free, then she will switch back. Margaery is playing with fire and I think it will end badly.

  521. Stargaryen,

    Arya actually made him laugh in season 2. That was the only smile I saw. I miss him, Charles Dance did such an awesome job with that character.

  522. ghost of winterfell,

    Kit lied, obviously. He’s good at it. He sat out 3 episodes, two were all about Sansa, two will be all about Sansa, one (where he hanged the traitors), the battle and E10. So it’s 3 episodes out of 10 of Jon doing something.

  523. The Bastard,

    UMMMMM … anyone who thinks Dany is going to be a RULER after this episode has had a lobotomy… sorry Dany fans but she is NOT going to rule BUT conquer.

    She’s going to be a BAD ASS conquerer for sure…

  524. Guys hear me out, i think one of the flashbacks Bran has shows Lyanna’s hans covered in blood. And we DO actually see JAIME KILLING THE MAD KING!!!

  526. Wimsey: Were you as surprised as I was to hear a southern lord speak so vehemently about Wildlings?

    I guess in context of their joyful family dinner, I’m sure it was exaggerated. But it was a bit over the top per the actual threat, I guess. Randyll is an overt traditionalist, for sure (almost the same way he treated Brienne in AFfC!). But Heartsbane made my year and Sam the Slayer claiming it made me pump my fists. (although there were some concerned looks directed my way)

    That Tarly dinner was perfect. Go Gilly! 🙂

    Also, Dany is her father’s daughter with more than a bit of Aegon the Conqueror in her soul. Dangerous on several levels. But the Dothraki will slow her down (and let her down). She needs to take to the air now!

  527. While I really like Dany, they need to stop ending episodes with
    “HEY GUYS, SHE’S COOL, LOOK AT HER BE COOL”

    I feel like a more drawn-out and dramatic version of the Jaime-Sparrow-Margaery scene would’ve been a more effective and interesting episode-capper.
    … or at the very least, something less predictable and stale like another Cool Khaleesi moment.

  528. ET,

    I don’t buy it that Margaery is really converted to the faith. I think it’s all a ploy to get Loras out. Whether she convinced Tommen to go along with her plan, or kept it from him and just convinced him to follow her (even though she isn’t sincere), is what I’m really wondering.

  529. Show Sam is a far superior character to book Sam. Book Sam would have pissed himself.

  530. Wimsey,

    Maybe he went to the city that Tywin got the smith from Volantis in the show. That would be to rework. They still could not originally forge

  531. Jehphg:
    Guys hear me out, i think one of the flashbacks Bran has shows Lyanna’s hans covered in blood

    Yep! I saw it too… I got a screenshot lol

  532. The Bastard,

    Jon, wildlings and co fighting with White Walkers? Good luck with that. Night’s King got his own plans but NK and Daeny mirror each othern and especially both want to conquer the world.

  533. TD:
    what does jorah do if he stops his greyscale and has to go back and attack westeros and possible meet up with members of his house? gods, dany is evil. and can we start talking about her bad parenting skills? what real mother shows such favoritism to 1 of 3 kids

    Lyanna Mormont will probably shove an axe in his face.

    As for Dany’s parenting, the other dragons hate her. They should team up and leave. Be like, I am moving out Mom! See ya! Then she will only have one dragon. 🙂

  535. eejazz:
    Solid episode. I just wasn’t a fan of the ending. It was clear that the Dothraki were already on Dany’s side, and we’ve been wow’ed by dragons more than twice. Didn’t seem very climactic to me, especially since the group had < 5min of total screen time, and nothing new was accomplished.

    Minor complaint aside, lots of great stuff in this episode. I’m especially excited about Arya’s storyline, although annoyingly it looks like we may not be getting that until EP8 judging by the preview….

    I liked the scene and liked getting to see Drogon, who is fucking huge now. This was a clear sign that Dany is finally ready to get her ass to Westeros, and that’s a good thing for the story. I’m over Meereen. But the return of Benjen was more important to me (and probably most other book readers) and I wish that had been the final scene. Not a big deal though!

  536. Jack Bauer 24:
    Dany on Drogon CGI looked much better this time i thought.

    Dude.. it literally gave me chills.. I was very impressed with that scene. Finally Dany is coming into her own and she understands her true power comes in conquering and not ruling. Just loved that whole scene.

  538. My favorite moment from this episode was Arya saying that her name was “Mercy”. Like from the books. It was an apt name too, because she showed mercy to Lady Crane. Hope that Arya kills waif and runs away with the traveling company.

  539. Fantastic episode!!! I love the pacing of this season. I loved every last part. Everything surprised me. I love not knowing what’s going to happen. I’m enjoying the show even more as an unsullied.

    I do think the show is setting up a Dany/Jon/Tyrion ruling triad: Dany will be the conquering power base (President), Tyrion will be the actual ruling body (Congress) and Jon will be the heart and consciousness (Supreme Court). Bran is the WMD and Arya the CIA. :). Ok maybe not the last two.

  540. Hmmmm. A few comments:

    1. Pretty sure this confirms that Benjen is dead in the books.
    2. Is Dany becoming the villain? Knocking down people’s stone houses doesn’t sound too endearing. It does make her character more interesting, though….
    3. Why did Arya go to bed when she must know they will be coming for her? I get that she hid Needle under the covers, but surely running away would be safer.
    4. Conversion of Tommen feels rushed to me. A few minutes ago he was promising his mother that he would be strong.
    5. I wonder where Dany might get 1000 ships. But if she teams up with Euron, that would make her a v…..oh.
    6. I have a feeling that Marg is going to bring down the HS with a plan out of left field. She’s clearly playing him. What is she up to?

  541. By the way, was that the same actor playing Benjen? He had on a bit of prosthetics to make him look half-dead, so I couldn’t tell if it was the prosthetics making the same guy look different or if they were also being used to make a different guy look the same.

    (They also distorted his voice slightly: again, they would do that that to make him sound less than alive, but it also means I couldn’t tell if it matched the original voice; also, I don’t remember the original voice!)

  542. I can’t believe not one person has said “Deepwood Motte confirmed!!11!” yet.

    I love you show watchers, but wow this was an episode gift wrapped for book readers.

    Icekhione:
    Done and dusted. As predicted, a boring episode apart from Bran/Benjen scenes

    Petition to have a separate thread for mopey Jon Snow fangirls/boys?

    The LSH hype isn’t over until the end of the season, IMO. We can still hold out hope for 4 episodes but after that, it’s time to give up the…Ghost.

  543. Loved all of the episode with the exception of Dany’s final scene. Admittedly, it’s hard to follow up on last week’s climax, but i honestly thought it was pretty cheesy. We can only have so many “awe inspiring” moments with her before they start to lose their effect. We just saw the dothraki bow in devotion to close an episode 2 weeks ago….. Didnt like it again so soon. Would have been better to just have drogon fly over and cast a shadow. And the whole “wait here…… While i go find my dragon” was just lame. Not dorne lame, but pretty lame. Maybe it’s the heavy CGI with drogon and the landscape, but Dany’s scenes just seem to be a little less engrossing to me than the rest. Also, i normally don’t focus on things like this, but i found it hard to believe she was able to project her voice to an entire army over the noise of a giant, brathing, growling dragon on the open, windy landscape. Whatever, minor complaint…. It is fantasy after all.

    – arya is back and it was awesome. I loved the dialogue and seeing arya’s personality come back after all this time was amazing! Very excited to see her battle the waif and gtfo of braavos and go cross off some names….. The riverlands seem nice this time of year

    -horn hill was cool, casting was perfect.

    -benjen’s return was great, liked the flashbacks as well

    -kings landing was slow as usual, but glad to see it going somewhere.

    -very much looking forward to the riverlands!

  545. Syed Kabir: Anyone else think he’ll meet up with Theon and Yara in Pentos or Volantis or something?

    They are at Volantis (the Long Bridge of Volantis is visible in the preview). Also the trailer for S6 showed Asha with a Volantene prostitute. I reckon this was the same brothel where Jorah captured Tyrion. Maybe they will meet Jorah who will tell them to go to Dany?

  546. How soon do we think someone will have a breakdown of all the visions that Bran had? I certainly don’t have the means to do that kind of detailed work.. hoping someone on here can and will do so shortly? Wow.. just seeing visions Mad King Aery’s was crazy HYPE.

  548. George:
    And with that speech to the Dothraki warriors, now I’m entertaining the possibility that Danny is turning into a villain after all.

    She’s in full Aegon the Conqueror/ Alexander the Great mode now.

    I loved her speech on top of Drogon. I have to admit though that I felt fear crept into my heart while watching it because I also sensed she’s turning into… something. Can’t say what it is yet. I hope GRRM/D&D aren’t going that direction. Nooooo!

    By the way, is she planning to bring her khal/blood riders to Westeros? Where will they settle? How can she make sure these men, who are used to brutality, rape, etc., won’t wreak havoc among the innocent people of Westeros? I’d like Dany to leave them there and instead recruit allies (Dorne, Tyrells) in the Seven Kingdoms to take the throne. Wishful thinking, I know.

  549. ghost of winterfell,

    It seems like they just used him for promo. 🙁 I’m very disappointed. The next episode should be the final chance.

    Videl,

    It’s a shame, really.

    Danny,

    Arya was good. I’m waiting for her to get the hell out of Braavos.

  550. One thing that just occured to me…

    Jamie is headed to Riverrun to back the Freys.

    BRIENNE is headed to Riverrun to back the Starks/Tullys, right??

    That’s going to be an interesting reunion!

  551. Wimsey:
    By the way, was that the same actor playing Benjen?He had on a bit of prosthetics to make him look half-dead, so I couldn’t tell if it was the prosthetics making the same guy look different or if they were also being used to make a different guy look the same.

    (They also distorted his voice slightly: again, they would do that that to make him sound less than alive, but it also means I couldn’t tell if it matched the original voice; also, I don’t remember the original voice!)

    Definitely Joseph Mawle. The voice thing was throwing me too plus his face was a little wider than it was in S1. Might have put on a few lbs up there in the far north.

  552. I like Randyll Tarly. He is just like my dad, straight to the point and no bullshit. Sam is kind of a fat useless bum so I don’t blame Randyll for being ashamed of him.

  553. Dinner at the Tarly place was adorable. I love Gilly and Sam.

    Cersei and Jaime were melodrama incarnate, omg. I think Marg’s faking religion to get herself and Loras out of the dungeons. This way she also screws Cersei, who will face her trial without Jaime.

    Glad Uncle Benjen showed up, but what exactly happened to him?

    Dany: It seems that every human between Meereen and the Narrow Sea is fated to grovel before her. I’m learning to love the predictable story and Clarke’s limited facial expressions, as these bits make for convenient bathroom breaks.

    Go Arya and Needle! Go west, super-Stark ninja 🙂

  554. Wimsey:
    By the way, was that the same actor playing Benjen?

    Yep… Joseph Mawle, same actor. He was in the first three episodes of season one, and back tonight.

  555. Bob Warren,

    No, Daeny is not becoming a villain. She is speaking the Dothraki’s language. Also, she is expecting to have the 7 Kingdoms at last partially united against her by the Baratheons and Lannisters. The extent of the fracturing of the kingdom would not be known to her.

    But, regardless: some stone houses are going to have to be pulled down in the end!

  556. Thronetender:
    I’m frightened for Sam. Randyll was already going to kill him just because Sam was Sam. Now that he’s taken the treasured family sword, won’t Randyll send a search and destroy party after him?Jeez, that dinner was worse for Sam than I thought it would be. And Dickon was kind of a dick, too. Although, if he had shown Sam any mercy, the old man would have been all in his face, too, for showing mercy to a weakling or something stupid like that.And here I thought Randyll was going to be marching into KL, but I guess not.

    This. Randyll Tarly is abusive to everyone in his family. Dickon had to be nasty to Sam in front of his father. We probably won’t find out if he is different alone with Sam because of time. I guess we might find out in Winter because GRRM has more time than D&D.

  558. Wimsey,

    If I was a betting girl I’d say it was the same actor.. he looked enough like him and sounded enough like him that I was sure it was him…

  560. My speculation about what would happen in Horn Hill was completely incorrect. Oh well. It was in all good fun. It was still a great scene.

  561. Will Brienne convince Jamie to join the Northern forces during the great battle?

    Dee:
    The Bastard,

    Dany and euron greyjoy
    She needs a thousand ships !

    Oh I forgot about the Iron Islands. Yes, they will go with Dany.

    And the more I think about it, whatever is left of the Lannister forces will join with the North thanks to Jamie’s relationship with Brienne.

  562. So we now have TWO undead Starks??!!!!
    I also would not call this episode a filler as while there no deaths or big twists, there was lots of foreshadowing and they did move many stories along at fast pace.
    Dany’s speech was awful and god damn repetitive but combined with what happened before they cut to her and Dario’s speech about her not being a ruler but conqueror, clearly foreshadowing a big turn for her character madness/villain whatever you call it.

    I am also starting to think they setting up some big reveal about Starks being much more linked to the WWs and it is not all that black and white, with the WWs in the end saving the world?? LOL.

    It seems like Olenna might be the only one to survive the impending massacre at KL.

  563. Sadly I think the show’s building up Dany for some future event to occur that throws her off. Whether that be she doesn’t end up on the iron throne, or she has to go immediately to the wall to help or something like that. She knows so little about the area she wants to rule. I mean great that your super powerful, but thats not what the world needs right now. What they really need is someone to fight wights. Idk they’re making her “too good to be true” for everything to end up ok.

  565. Wimsey,

    Randyll didn’t surprise me much as a southern lord. He DID send his son to the Wall – and I don’t think it was because he was afraid to outright kill his son. He was hoping that Sam would make his name as a Tarly, a great killer of wildlings.

    I think the entire thing was distasteful to him – Sam not at the Wall being triumphant, Sam going to learn book things, Sam with a bastard… Sam’s visit. Randyll accurately realized that attacking Gilly would pain Sam greatly, so he did. He was perhaps being dramatic.

    On another note: No deaths, no dick jokes, no boobs… was this an episode of GoT? Either way it was excellent…

  568. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    I agree. The told Loras to be strong in the cell. She has a plan. How it turns out is another story.

    Oh, and David Bradley is awesome. It was really good to see him again. Which they let him loose on The Strain.

  569. Laura: I love you show watchers, but wow this was an episode gift wrapped for book readers.

    How so? It did not seem particularly “fan wankish” to me.

  571. I’m sure you all caught this but when Daario guessed they would need 1000 ships and no one had that many. Dany had that not yet reply. Could Euron already got some message to her? Maybe before she was taken last season?

  572. Brocktoon1921:
    Show Sam is a far superior character to book Sam.Book Sam would have pissed himself.

    You forget how terribly weak and scared he was in earlier seasons though, even through most of season 3. He couldn’t do anything. He was getting more brave in the books too, but he left for the Citadel and we haven’t progressed much past that.

  573. The best part of the episode was …. Burn them all !!!!! There was no tear for either Summer or Hodor… So sad … I’m glad it was Benjen. I hope he is the one that dies in Winterfell … (Don’t judge … I want a miracle for Rickon) … but Benjen is dead, so I don’t know how it works, maybe he won’t be able to pass the wall.
    The episode was fine, but it didn’t have any shocking or outstanding part. Next episode must be good. Looking forward to Arya, Sansa and Jon’s storylines and the Blackfish and … The Hound. Yessss … sounds good.

  574. Thronedorne:
    I went back thru bran’s visions frame by frame. There’s a little inside the ToJ. Just see Leanna soaked in blood and Ned’s bloody hand… But still!! Hype!! It’s coming!!!

    Oh, I didn’t catch this. Now hype has been multiplied to the nth degree!

  576. Videl:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    Don’t count on it. Jon’s just there to tag along, stand in the background all silent like, then swing his sword a couple times. They abandoned any character development for him.

    I don’t want to jump to this conclusion, but that promo didn’t help so…..

    I only have one other favorite character left alive (Cersei) and I’ve made my peace mostly with show! Cersei. But, I was naively foolishly excited for show!Jon this year. I was excited for him becoming an active character rather than reacting constantly. He killed the mutineers and he made the decision to leave the watch, which was an active decision. But, the fact that he’s not getting to say anything in the promo, at least claim his decision to fight for Winterfell, just leaves me wary of how reactive he’s been since he decided to leave the watch. I should lower my expectations.

    A few weeks ago, I defended the taking back of Winterfell SL at being the fight of everyone Ramsay threatened but that promo makes me doubt my defense now. It’s just a short promo but it validated my wariness, so. I hope my wariness is wrong.

  578. Ghosts Lunch: Actually it kind of worked thematically as a follow on from the Bran-Meera-Benjen scene

    Eg the Doom of the NK with his hordes of Wights coming to destroy everything and then onto Dany…with her machinations of descending onto Westeros with her hordes of Dothraki to destroy everything

    Perhaps no accident we saw our very first glimpse of the Mad King with “burn them all!” as Dany’s Targaryen coin flips to tyrant!

    Bran better be ready for the both of them!

    As for Sansa, similar thing, like I’ve said elsewhere it’s a juggling act but IMO she’ll take over the North and Vale and rule like a tyrant out of Harrenhall so the assertiveness will slowly turn into something more “sinister” or LFesque

    On Sansa I agree.. she is def turning into DARK SANSA …. I think she feels like she was so stupid all those years on believing in the WHITE KNIGHT coming to save her and she is tired of that story and is going to save herself (AND the North) with some of her own retribution.

  579. I’ll be honest- if we don’t end up getting the

    CleganeBowl

    before this series ends (maybe not this season), I’ll be more than a little pissed. There are some teases that MUST be paid off.

  581. Yup:
    Sadly I think the show’s building up Dany for some future event to occur that throws her off… Idk they’re making her “too good to be true” for everything to end up ok.

    I absolutely, 100% think this is the case. The ultimate twist of all: the girl we thought would be a “hero” becoming, if not a monster, than a hugely fierce obstacle for all the other “heroes.”

    They killed Hodor — now I’m convinced they’ll do anything!

  582. Jinx47:
    So we now have TWO undead Starks??!!!!
    I also would not call this episode a filler as while there no deaths or big twists, there was lots of foreshadowing and they did move many stories along at fast pace.
    Dany’s speech was awful and god damn repetitive but combined with what happened before they cut to her and Dario’s speech about her not being a ruler but conqueror, clearly foreshadowing a big turn for her character madness/villain whatever you call it.

    I am also starting to think they setting up some big reveal about Starks being much more linked to the WWs and it is not all that black and white, with the WWs in the end saving the world?? LOL.

    It seems like Olenna might be the only one to survive the impending massacre at KL.

    There is no way The White Walkers are pure evil. GRRM has already said this isn’t a LOTR type of story. They are still men in there. Would be interesting to hear them talk.

  583. George,

    Except Aegon only had 500 to 3000 troops in addition to the 3 dragons at the beginning he picked up more as more people submitted. The dragons won it. If Dany arrived with all her troops it should be over in a couple of episodes. It would seem something might have to occur to make it less of a foregone conclusion that she will quickly triumph

  584. excellent episode!
    I was HYPED to see the Mad King.. (and showing it now, in the midst of the arc Dany is going through this season..well lets just say I wonder if Tyrion will handle Dany better then Tywin handled Aerys)

    UNCLE BENJEN!!!! kicking ass and taking names..

    Horn Hill is beautiful..Papa Tarley was SPOT on and High Five to Slayer for taking Heartsbane, will come in handy when you get your ass back up North where it belongs (and Dickon is hawt..can we keep him please)

    if people would just step back and let my gurl Marg and her gran handle things Westeros would be a much better place..just sayin

    Welcome back Ayra Stark, we have missed you…

    I knew as soon as Dany said “wait here” what was gonna happen ..still not sure if she saw shadow or just felt him but it was cool..and she has gone full on Fire and Blood it is ALL mine Targ hasnt she.. love it!

  585. Mag:
    The best part of the episode was …. Burn them all !!!!! There was no tear for either Summer or Hodor… So sad … I’m glad it was Benjen. I hope he is the one that dies in Winterfell … (Don’t judge …I want a miracle for Rickon) …but Benjen is dead, so I don’t know how it works, maybe he won’t be able to pass the wall.
    The episode was fine, but it didn’t have any shocking or outstanding part.

    I hope NOT. Benjen was brought back by the CoTF AND the 3ER… I certainly hope that means he is going to have a fairly good amount of screen time left in the show.. I think Benjen is way more important than Rickon at this point. IMHO that is.. 😉

  586. Laura:
    I can’t believe not one person has said “Deepwood Motte confirmed!!11!” yet.

    I love you show watchers, but wow this was an episode gift wrapped for book readers.

    Petition to have a separate thread for mopey Jon Snow fangirls/boys?

    The LSH hype isn’t over until the end of the season, IMO. We can still hold out hope for 4 episodes but after that, it’s time to give up the…Ghost.

    I said it a week, or two ago. 🙂

    Yes, it was an episode gift-wrapped for book readers…nice way of putting it…well, book readers who enjoy the show, that is. For those who hate the show, it was more like hell-wrapped.

    I would sign that petition.

    While I’m not one who hopes to see her, you’re such a rational LSH person, I’ll feel for you if you don’t get your hope.

  587. Flayed Potatoes:
    Olenna and the fan though….

    I know, right? I thought that the palanquin bested the fan, though, and maybe even the feathered helmet. #poshassbitch

  588. FUCKING MAD KING!!!!! YEAH that was awesome that we got the wildfire too! So freaking cool! Iloved that!!!! Can;t wait for more Bran visions and when they will come into play. That is the poetry of it all.

    Arya knew what she had decided when she spared lady Crane. She knew she had to get needle- recalin herself and run like hell. Cat of the Canals. I giess that rules out my theores that Arya will be sent to kill John or Dany since she is no longer a Faceless man. How will she survive going forward? They will hunt her til the edge of the earth won’t they. She is on thier hit list. If she kills the waif will Jaquen or the a man who looks like Jaquen spare her as the God he serves has been offerd a life for a life? Or will he continue to pursue her. I think he said him self it is all the same to the God he serves.

    I love the Tarly scenes. I am so glad that actor was cast. He is perfect. I love that Sam took Heartsbane. I was wrong. I thought they would not make a big deal about it but they did. Yay!!!!

    I am so excited to get the Black fish next week. That actor has so much Gravitas! My tmeperature went way up when I saw him on my screen. I can’t wait to see he and Jamie clash.

    What is going on with Sansa, Did she get married to someone? I don;t know why I thought that But I did from the previews.

    Is Benjen able to see what Bran see’s? How the F did he know that bran saw how the white walkers were made? Benjen said, “you saw it yourself” when he was speaking to Bran of how he survived his deep northern ranging enocounter with death and the WW magic.

    Has Jamie ever refferedcd to Tommen as his son directly before? Cersei and Jamie just keep getting closer and closer it seems, not pulled apart. They are feeding on evil, Jamie just absorbs Cersei’s hatred. How is that going to fly with Brienne at Riverrun since they ar now both ehaded there. Will she sweeten his bitter heart or will she be turned off by him once and for all and fall into the arms of Tornund? LOL

    I love how Dany sensed that Drogon was there. She was like hold up so yall don;t get burned! Beautifl! I got really hot when I saw her on the dragon flying- like I saw her as Nymeria for a minute there. Awesome. The music and the speech was a bit cheesey. Well the speech itself wasnt but the way Emila deliered it is. I love her presense but hat eher acting more and more.

    The faith militiant suck! The high fucjing sparrow played them. There could be not death beacuese they masses would revolt. He won for real. How are they going to undue that impression on the people at this point. Even if rhey kill him the seed has beeen planted. That is what he eanted all along. It is his legacy. Like Trywin cared about his. This hight sparrow cares about his.

  589. lisse,

    Even looking at all the discussions on GoT sites, it’s like everyone forgot Jon is supposed to be in this fight too. It’s like he’s being turned into Westeros’ Grey Worm.

  590. TD:
    Angela,

    haha those teenage fights are gonna be brutal.

    and speaking of miss mormont.. finally next week!!

    Yup. Hahaha.

    I know! We get to meet Lyanna Mormont and it is going to be awesome. She will agree to join the Starks. That girl is ready to roll.

  591. Flayed Potatoes:
    So why did Benjen give Bran a cup of blood to drink?

    Its the quickest way to absorb high nutrient value. The Masai in Kenya drink cows blood and I didn’t know but some American Indians did as well. So it well known to be a good source of nutrients and since he was warging so much he prob was depleted.

  592. Immanuel1824:
    While I really like Dany, they need to stop ending episodes with
    “HEY GUYS, SHE’S COOL, LOOK AT HER BE COOL”

    I feel like a more drawn-out and dramatic version of the Jaime-Sparrow-Margaery scene would’ve been a more effective and interesting episode-capper.
    … or at the very least, something less predictable and stale like another Cool Khaleesi moment.

    Hey, she hadn’t gotten her “Toruk Makto” moment yet that I was expecting in Vaes Dothrak! I don’t care if it was the beginning or end of the episode, I wanted to see her riding Drogon because she wanted to and he wanted her to as opposed to fleeing from danger. While the Dothraki were already following her because of ‘flame-on,’ I think their belief in her is solidified by seeing the rumors of her dragons are true.

  593. Darkrobin,

    White Walkers sitting in King’s Landing with a load of wights, maybe?

    Just speculation. I’m recalling a certain vision she had — snow, a wrecked throne room. Could just be that someone’s burned down the place and winter’s finally hit, buuuut.

  595. Thronedorne: Also, the Areys scenes of him screaming “burn them all” chopped up with WW visions, got me thinking maybe the theory of bran messing with the mad King is true?

    Maybe Aerys wasn’t really mad, just a bit ahead of his time (due to Bran’s mental meddling). He planted wildfire bombs all around King’s Landing to make the city a huge pyrotechnic death trap. If the army of the dead takes King’s Landing, it might not be a bad idea for the last defenders to have a self-destruct button. Aerys could have been fighting the right war at the wrong time.

  596. ghost of winterfell: This being Jon’s biggest season sounds like total BS now. It’s just one battle for him, still hoping you are right.

    Unfortunately, it’s looking like that. Even in the next episode, Sansa, Davos, and Tormund seem like the ones doing the rallying. Maybe the producers thought his fans would be happy just having him go to war and do his sword fighting. Wrong! I think episode 9 will be his biggest episode and that’s it. However, I’m afraid that’s not even going to be a real victory for his character because of speculations that it’s the Vale army (maybe through Sansa’s negotiations with LF?) who would swoop in at the last minute and win the war for them.

  598. @Videl I forgot to say this but love your username.

    Randyll Tarly is a terrible father.

    Finally, Arya!! I’m so excited. This was a good episode for her.

    Benjen’s back. And, I thought Benjen and Coldhands were the same for years before GRRM said otherwise. So, I’m cool with BenHands.

  600. Flayed Potatoes:
    So why did Benjen give Bran a cup of blood to drink?

    I thought that was a show tribute to “Jojen Paste” (the blood-like substance Bran drinks in the Tree)

  601. I NEED SOME JON ACTION

    But let’s not forget
    He didn’t wanna fight any more
    He’s doing this for Sansa

    It’s not like at hardhome when he was passionate about the fight

    I do still need some Jon action. Some dialogue and stuff

  603. TD,

    I didn’t realize Edmure and Black Jack Randall were played by the same actor until I saw Edmure again in this episode. Tobias Menzies plays two very different characters in the shows.

  604. My guess is that Arya will kill the Waif and Lady Crane will smuggle her away from Braavos with the theater group because we could all use more Bobono in our lives. But Jaqen will probably stalk her back to Westeros for breaking the rules…

    Lots of lost characters are coming back so I have to ask my usual question: WHERE’S GENDRY?

    PS. Though I love Joe Dempsie if Gendry comes back I think it should be with another actor. More bull – like dare I say. Strong, tall and brooding because technically he’s the last Baratheon on the show. Joe Dempsie is cute but he’s just too damn short.

  606. Casso: Maybe Aerys wasn’t really mad, just a bit ahead of his time (due to Bran’s mental meddling).He planted wildfire bombs all around King’s Landing to make the city a huge pyrotechnic death trap. If the army of the dead takes King’s Landing, it might not be a bad idea for the last defenders to have a self-destruct button.Aerys could have been fighting the right war at the wrong time.

    Maybe! I hope we get to see more of it!

  607. By the way, this episode DID have the best dialogue of the season yet! None of that D&D goofiness/attempts at making jokes

  609. Flayed Potatoes:
    lisse,

    Even looking at all the discussions on GoT sites, it’s like everyone forgot Jon is supposed to be in this fight too. It’s like he’s being turned into Westeros’ Grey Worm.

    I’m trying hard not be resentful tbh. His post rez arc was the last thing for my Top 3 characters that I was looking forward to.

  610. ok…so looking ahead.. the note Sansa was signing in preview..letter to Littlefinger or ?

  612. Connor:
    BLACKFISH IS BACK NEXT EPISODE!!!!

    Ooo, House Glover’s fist banner:

    Deepwood Motte confirmed!!!!!!!!!!! (Just kidding. Not definite. But that’s the cliche, right? Get hype!)

    And right after: are Yara and her Ironborn fleet already in freaking Volantis? Isn’t that the long bridge?

    Tormund’s “I thought he was the one” speech to rile the Wildlings!

    Baby Bear Mormont!!!!!!!! The banner is crystal clear in this trailer, when Sansa, Jon, et al are shown.

    Wow!

  613. George: I thought that was a show tribute to “Jojen Paste” (the blood-like substance Bran drinks in the Tree)

    He is turning into the Bloodraven, bwhahaaa..
    Now I wonder what type of magic Bran possesses that will give him the power to stop the NK and WWs? Benjen said he will be ready when they make it to the wall?

  614. Flayed Potatoes:
    Ice Spider,

    Thanks. I was worried about him for a moment. I thought it was some weird magic ritual.

    Idk the REAL reason.. but Im guessing it was for nutrition and I know blood has the highest about of nutrients in it if its consumed right after being taken from the animal. In Kenya they don’t kill the cow.. they just “bleed it” to get the blood and then stop the flow so the cow lives on to give more blood another day. 😉

  616. Dany is getting a little cray cray.

    Definitely saw Sam stealing heartsbane.

    Flashback visions were cool… Have to freeze frame those… Or someone else will.

    So much stuff that is going to happen but didn’t happen!

    These seven days will be tough!

  617. Dee:
    The Bastard,

    Dany and euron greyjoy
    She needs a thousand ships !

    If Helen of Troy had enough beauty to launch a thousand ships,
    I think Dany has at least a kiloHelen of beauty to launch her thousand ships.

  618. Bran’s visions – Mad king’s face, Bran’s fall, Dragon over King’s Landing, Dany with baby Drogon, Catelyn dying, Ned dying, Lot of ravens flying in the night, Whitewalker with the baby, Night’s king making baby whitewalker, Mad king shouting ‘burn them all’, Jaime (with a white cloak) approaching the mad king with his sword drawn, the pyromancers working with wildfire, wildfire causing explosions in a dungeon (I think this is future), wildfire kept in shelves, Ned asking “Where’s my sister?”, A woman’s boady with blood all over her middle, a bloody hand (not Lyanna’s, but Ned or Howland’s), Jaime(played by NCW, I’d guess) stabbing mad king in the back, Robb’s death, Jaime over the mad king’s corpse, a raven (I saw only two eyes), Robb falling, Leaf ‘creating’ the Night’s King, whitewalker fights Jon at Hardhome, Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne (after killing Aerys), wildfire explosion in dungeons, whitewalker holding a baby, dragon over King’s landing, the trailer bit with Jaime and Aerys’s shadows, Aerys, pyromancers, Bran falling, wights army at Hardhome, “Come at me, crow!”, more wights from last week’s vision, Hardhome wights, wights in the present chasing them, giant wight who might be Hodor, wights, wights, wights. Aerys shouting ‘burn them all’ is heard repeatedly (unless there is a dialogue – like Ned’s scene).

  619. OK. I had two big shout-out-at-the-TV moments:

    1) Arya retrieving Needle.

    2) Benjen reveal.

    And one small one:

    1) Edmure’s back.

    Other than that, I loved loved loved Arya being enticed to run away with the theatre troupe. I have a real soft spot for stories that revolve around buskers and traveling performers and all the backstage drama that occurs in the makeshift family of a theatrical company. (My favorite movie of all time is Children of Paradise, which uses different forms of theatre as metaphors for different kinds of love.) I really hope that she gets to go away with them once she has had her showdown with the Waif!

    Fun to see Frey back being his abrasive self again, and watching all the little Freys squirm under his verbal abuse. It was an entertaining way to get catch-up exposition on the Riverlands.

    Randyll was admirably horrible. I was disappointed that Sam’s brother Dickon was so one-note, though. He seemed like basically the same dim, self-satisfied, privileged prat that he played when he was McLaggen in the Potter movies. Was hoping for him to be a little more nuanced, as in ‘secretly torn between overbearing Dad and the nice rest of the family.’ The mother and sister made lovely impressions in their brief bits; I have a feeling that was it for them in the series, though.

    Dany’s scene didn’t seem to have much point beyond showing us how big Drogon has grown and some splendid Spanish desert scenery. Wave your arakh in the air, rah rah rah. Well, maybe Daario’s increasing wrongfootedness and sense of intimidation were the point. He almost seems poised to take up the Ser Friendzone mantle.

    As for King’s Landing… I’m so weary of Cersei’s demanding this and demanding that. Much as I love Lena, I’m starting to feel like her character is played out. Between Cersei and Dany and Euron, I’m getting a sinking feeling that what’s left of the show is going to consist largely of a lot of chest-beating and people giving indignant speeches that boil down to ‘I’m badass!’ ‘No, I’m more badass!’ ‘I’m the badassest of all!’ Which to me quickly becomes a bore.

    In the next episode, looking forward to seeing what scheme Olenna pulls out of her wimple. And the Blackfish/Edmure/Jaime stuff. Meanwhile, hoping someone will quickly post a frame-by-frame breakdown of Bran’s vision-cramming session.

  620. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I said it a week, or two ago. ?

    Yes, it was an episode gift-wrapped for book readers…nice way of putting it…well, book readers who enjoy the show, that is.For those who hate the show, it was more like hell-wrapped.

    I would sign that petition.

    While I’m not one who hopes to see her, you’re such a rational LSH person, I’ll feel for you if you don’t get your hope.

    Aww thanks! Yeah, there was just so much to enjoy for book readers: Horn Hill, Heartsbane, BenHands plus everything in the trailer for next week. Blackfish was a boss!

    I have to say my biggest let down of this episode was King’s Landing. From way back when we saw the set pics of Jamie/Tyrell army I really expected shit to go DOWN during that scene and then HS started talking and the sad, losing music from The Price is Right played in my head. Haha.

    Whatever Sansa’s doing in the next episode does not look good. Please don’t get anyone killed, Sansa. Can anyone open up her letter from the trailer in their FBI software and tell me what it says? 🙂

  621. I agree with everyone about Jon. It seems like he’s taking a backseat to Sansa, and it feels weird. He just seems kind of a puppet for everyone else. He’s not in the driver’s seat for his own story – which he’s been for like 5 seasons now, so it feels wrong.

  622. house snow,

    I agree. Loved the episode. Bran Arya and Walder Frey were highlights. Missed David Bradley. Now there’s a villain you can truly hate Oh Sam and Gilly. Thought it was going nowhere until the end. Good twist

    KL. mostly getting pieces in place for next four episodes. Nothing unexpected here

    Dany. Underwhelmed. I agree with who said they are hitting us in the head with fire and blood the second coming of Aegon and his sisters but to me they are turning her close to godlike and invincible. If the seven kingdoms couldn’t stand Aegon his sisters the three dragons and a few thousand initially troops how will they withstand the unsullied -maybe they stay in Meereen – and tens of thousands of Dothraki etc? Plus iron born plus dorne. Seems like she’s got to face some greater obstacles

  623. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    Lol.. yes.. I will be all over Youtube tomorrow to see all the recaps and theories … it takes me a little longer to absorb stuff (age ugh) but once it’s absorbed it doesn’t get lost!! 😉

  624. In a way Tommen and Jaimie are quite similar. Both of them get influenced by Cersei when they are with her and by Margaery, Brienne respectively when they are away from Cersei. It is a nice symmetry.

  625. I loved the episode. I don’t think it was boring, or a filler. I think it was a CONTEXT episode, and perfect timing. It moved the series forward leaps and bounds and nicely sets up the rest of the season.

    Return of Benjen? Woo hoo! I don’t mind if GRRM didn’t intend for Cold Hands and Benjen to be the same character in the books. It made perfect sense in the show. There isn’t time to tell the backstory of Cold Hands or explain his existence, or develop a new character arc. And they had to cover the long absence of Benjen. For TV, this works.

    WRT Bram, I was kinda disappointed there wasn’t a mention of Hodor.

    Flashbacks: Can’t wait to freeze-frame through them and look for the hints/reveals.

    Sam and Gilly: Wow, Gilly is a stunner. That made me grin. I agree that Randyll Tarly was very well cast. I was unsure how I was going to feel about more screen time with these two, but seeing Sam steal Heartsbane made it worth it. Plus the show didn’t drag it out. There’s context here that will be even more important someday.

    Arya: I’m super happy they didn’t linger on the Many Faced Gods assassin plot any longer. Grabbing Needle out of the stone was a highlight for me. Can’t wait to see her journey home.

    She does still have to fight The Waif, and that won’t be easy. We also have yet to see her jump from the balcony (trailer). BUT…interesting that the scene ended with Arya blowing out the candle. Who better to fight in the pitch black than a girl who until recently had no eyes?!

    I also still believe there’s a bigger reason for The Waif’s character/hatred, and that even considering the editing, her pause at Arya’s mention of Walder Frey was a hint at something.

    Kings Landing: This was the only part I found moderately disappointing. I don’t believe Margaery has really embraced the Faith. It was strategy for a temporary reprieve and to save her brother.

    As I mentioned in another comment, this means both Brienne and Jamie are headed to Riverrun, on opposing sides. Can’t wait.

    Dany: Blah blah big speech to a crowd, blah blah follow me. I guess they felt we needed to actually see the commitment from the Dothraki to cross the sea. ……..Drogon! Yay!

    Add all of this plus Walder Frey and Edmure, and I thought it was a great episode. Gosh darn, this season has turned me into a GoT crackhead. I already can’t wait for my next fix!

  626. It was a relatively tame episode, especially in comparison to last weeks episode. However, there was so much info thrown at us!!! It was so good to see Benjen again. I also loved Ary’s progression…can’t wait to see the fight between her and the waif.

    And did anyone catch the mention of the BWOB?!?!? Maybe some gendry or maybe even a return of a certain lady 😉

  627. Clob,

    No, I don’t forget. Season 1 show Sam was less of a coward than AFFC/ADWD book Sam. Plus show Sam has had growth. He was a coward, but one with a spark. Book Sam is one of my most hated characters, and he is still a pants-pissing coward.

  628. George: I thought that was a show tribute to “Jojen Paste” (the blood-like substance Bran drinks in the Tree)

    I did, too.

    Still laughing over Mace and his glorious plumage.

    Dee – I know by “and stuff” you really mean “more shots of his butt.” 😉

  629. Laura: Can anyone open up her letter from the trailer in their FBI software and tell me what it says?

    The only word I can read are ‘your’, and the signature, Sansa Stark. Since she is visitng the Mormonts and Glovers, I think the letter is to the Manderlys.

  630. Let’s talk about the Tarly’s. Great casting choices!!! Faulkner was a great Randyll Tarly! Great acting in that scene. I was cheering Sam on as he was taking Heartsbane!

    Go Sam go!

    Also, Jon needs to do some more sheeeit already!!!

  631. HereBeDragons:
    ps… We DID see King Aerys in those quick-fire flashbacks, didn’t we???

    …off to rewatch those :o)

    Yes, we did. I’m about to rewatch. For those who’ve not yet, the flashes start at 5:24 on HBOgo – at least for me.

  633. TD,

    Even though I like Sam, seeing his family wasn’t necessary. The only reason I’m OK with it is because the actor who plays Randall is incredible. He was so intimidating, I felt like a Wildling whore.

  634. Dany burning down the temple was about taking charge of all the Dothraki

    Dany on Drogon speechifying was about convincing an entire people’s to not only follow her but to let go of their innate fear and mistrust of water and follow her by ship to Westeros. While that dynamic hasn’t been mentioned in the show much, in the books it’s outlined strongly how much they fear and distrust water and ships.

    So to me, that scene is perfectly justifiable and not just a unnecessary Dany as a badass to close out an episode again.

    As far as Brans visions, some stuff was definitely recycled imagery and scenes we’ve seen before but definite some new stuff in there as well so eager to see once someone has a frame by frame gallery up.

  635. If you remember SS Abandoned Plotlines, everyone is back (Thoros and Beric willbe back soon), except the one who was rowing the boat – Gendry.

  636. Pj:
    My guess is that Arya will kill the Waif and Lady Crane will smuggle her away from Braavos with the theater group because we could all use more Bobono in our lives. But Jaqen will probably stalk her back to Westeros for breaking the rules…

    Lots of lost characters are coming back so I have to ask my usual question: WHERE’S GENDRY?

    PS. Though I love Joe Dempsie if Gendry comes back I think it should be with another actor. More bull – like dare I say. Strong, tall and brooding because technically he’s the last Baratheon on the show.Joe Dempsie is cute but he’s just too damn short.

    Awwww I love Dempsie… they don’t always fit the show character to a T from book character. I want Dempsie back…. poo poo.. lol No but on a serious note I get what your saying. BUT if you remember King Robert wasn’t as big as the book character and so Dempsie actually fits the size perfectly to be Roberts son…. IJS .. my story and sticking to it. 😉

  637. Black Jack Randall sighting!! 🙂
    Interesting episode. Loved seeing Benjen again, FINALLY!
    Will the waif show Mercy? What will she show her? Hoping it’s her overdue demise.
    What was the point of the speech from Drogon’s back? She already had that khalasaar. (sp?) It was cheesy, but fun to watch.
    Lots of good stuff in this ep. Hardly missed Jon at all.
    Have to say though,

    I’d prefer it if Jaime had distanced himself from Cersei…

    as in the books, but oh well.

  640. Not to be confused with jojen paste, I have a vague memory of Osha and Bran discussing drinking blood from specially crafted cups.

  642. Laura:

    Whatever Sansa’s doing in the next episode does not look good. Please don’t get anyone killed, Sansa. Can anyone open up her letter from the trailer in their FBI software and tell me what it says?

    Dear Littlefinger,

    Sorry what I said last week about wanting to kill you. I was just venting. I went to the other Northern houses and they were skeptical of me asking them to get flayed alive ,by Ramsay Bolton, for me to get back Winterfell. I married a Bolton and for some odd reason they don’t trust me. Plus, I brought Jon Snow, with me, who let Wildlings into the North. They seemed a little upset about that I guess. Could you please send that Vale Army I rejected?

    Kisses,

    Sansa Stark

    Sorry I just had to.

  643. Ginevra,

    Im off for rewatch… so glad no early rising tomorrow.. get to stay up late and enjoy the show again!! Thanks again for great convo!!

  645. Wimsey: That probably was the Mountain fighting Sparrows.

    Ahem, you were saying? These are screengrabs from “inside the episode”, paused on a Mad King flashback & what looks a hell of a lot like Jamie Lannister sticking a sword in his back.

    GoT S6 E6

  646. Thronedorne,

    I did the same thing! I noticed two things. One the Mad King was sitting in a throne room that was designed by Joffrey lol, Robert had vines before… I mean no one really knows what TMK had when he ruled but totally noticed lol ALSO They kept showing the wild fire and the pyromanser…. umm… there was one shot where the wild fire was exploding underneath the Red Keep….future? just like Drogon flying over KL…. I can’t wait!

  647. This dany scene should have been at the opening of the episode 5 ..
    Have dany talk with daario and jorah ..have drogon appear and dany speech and then march

    And could have gladly made her absent in next two episodes ..

    Instead they went the same route with giving dany her 3 mins and another episode where she only appears as episode ender..

    It would have been nice if dany get arya treatment less episodes but more screentime when she appears .

  648. Lyanna_Targaryen:
    Icekhione,

    Actually you’re a troll, but, it’s cool, I’ll just keep ignoring you ?

    I was wondering if he was or not.. just so negative about EVERY show.. I don’t get it? People really have time in their lives to WASTE being so negative .. just don’t get it.

  649. If Dany’s speech accomplished nothing else, it demonstrated she certainly has control of Drogon, and also shows how ginormous he’s gotten. She was a li’l blonde speck up on top of him! I don’t know why, but just like in the Daznak’s Pit scene, something about seeing Dany up on Drogon gets me.

  651. ramses,

    Yes!! I thought the same thing! It seems as if they are circling the stories lines that intersect with her back to the book material. I felt a strange satisfaction with that.
    I literally screamed “Coldhands!” Almost woke the entire neighborhood! Ahhh!
    Vey interesting fan theory that Dany becomes the villain and NK the savior. Have to think on that.
    I know ya’ll all think this was slow but I actually think it was perfect pacing.
    My heart still hurts from last week. If we were subjected to another one like last week it would have been too much.
    A good mix takes you up then brings it down just a bit and then takes you back up a little then hits you hard. Ep 8 is going to be a killer. Arya?? Probably Tommen?? Jamie?? Rickon? Who knows.

  653. Benjen!

    For me it was a step-down this week, but it was still a great episode. There wasn’t really anything bad, but there wasn’t anything exceptional either. There seemed to be a lot of set-up for the rest of the season, but that makes sense given the storylines they’re doing (Riverun), so I have no problem with that at all. I thought that this episode would be a “reset the pieces” type of episode, so my expectations went high. The faith scene went down as many people had speculated, so it wasn’t a disappointment for me.

  655. Sam,

    Looks like Dan and D think that’s all Kit’s good for. Action scenes. They stripped Jon off any personality, agency and character.

  656. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    I agreed
    Plus she really had to convince the dothraki that they had to forget their fears and go on ships
    If I remember correctly the dothraki don’t like water and don’t ride ships

  657. Wimsey:
    By the way, was that the same actor playing Benjen?He had on a bit of prosthetics to make him look half-dead, so I couldn’t tell if it was the prosthetics making the same guy look different or if they were also being used to make a different guy look the same.

    (They also distorted his voice slightly: again, they would do that that to make him sound less than alive, but it also means I couldn’t tell if it matched the original voice; also, I don’t remember the original voice!)

    I totally recognized his eyes/voice in that first scene, but I’ve seen the actor in a few other things since s1, so I had the anticipatory advantage.

    BTW, do major characters have to be killed for (some) people to consider an episode NOT filler these days? SHIT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Awesome.

  658. Flayed Potatoes,

    For sure! As Howland Reed’s daughter and given Howland’s presence at the ToJ, she’s being set up to play an interesting role. I hope at least (and yes I’m aware of the theories about her, and haven’t discounted them yet, but am too lazy to put in spoiler quotes 😉

  659. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    Me too … I literally had goose bumps on my arms and felt hair rising on my spine. That for me was the best scene this episode. PLEASE NO HATERS please.. it was HOW I FELT.. you don’t have to feel the same as me.. but I LOVED that scene. It was powerful!!

  660. aabe: The only word I can read are ‘your’, and the signature, Sansa Stark. Since she is visitng the Mormonts and Glovers, I think the letter is to the Manderlys.

    I definitely saw “fulfill” and “Winter”

    ETA: Is it ok to discuss next week’s preview on here without spoiler tags?

  661. As poor as I found some of the story and delivery, this was 10/10.

    Benjen (leave your scarf on kylo)+RL foreshadow+Bran-o-vision+arya solo+SAM MF stealing Heartsbane lol. It was wacky. It was fun.

  662. Why was Jon ressurected after all? He does nothing. Just stay around and act like a grey worm.

  663. Jon,

    Congratulations on coming up with “cheesy”to describe those last few minutes with Dany aboard Drogon (who’s obviously been using steroids). Up until the fly-in, I was totally engrossed with the episode: Bran’s visions (can’t wait for screenshots); Uncle Benjen revealed & explained; the mini-twists in Arya’s story (i.e., her actually using the poison and ratting out the other actress); the playing-out of the dinner at Horn Hill; Tommen’s dismissing Jaime; and the wonderful acting of Essie Davis, James Faulkner, and David Bradley. I don’t know why Bryan Cogman chose this for the ending to Episode 6.

  665. Icekhione:
    Sam,

    Looks like Dan and D think that’s all Kit’s good for. Action scenes. They stripped Jon off any personality, agency and character.

    I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this, ser. It may not be the direction you wanted his personality, agency, and character to go, but he still has it. There hasn’t been a lot of him the past couple of eps, but there are still 4 to go, and I’m thinking he has a large part in each of them; they’re certainly not all to be battles & action.

  666. Ice Spider,

    Glad you loved it like me. I also felt the chills and that music though but its already given that dany’s music will be awesome .
    Don’t mind the haters.they are more predictable than dany’s story with their comments ..

  667. I don’t see why people get the feeling that Dany will become a villain..? Especially since presumably she has Tyrion and Varys on her side, two decidedly non-villainous characters. Although I think viewing any of these characters as “Heroes” and “Villains” is an oversimplification, especially on a show like Game of Thrones. There are very few purely villainous/evil characters on this show, and even less purely heroic ones.

    Any of the characters on GOT could be considered villains if we looked at their actions from a different POV. For example Jon & NW vs. Wildlings in the earlier seasons.

    Anyway the two most powerful houses in Westeros are crumbling so I do wonder who would be Dany’s biggest opposition if she does cross the narrow sea. The Lannisters and Tyrells? At this point, it’s hard to imagine, I suspect this ordeal with the High Sparrow will leave both of those houses weaker than they already are. I think it’s likely that when Dany makes her way to Westeros, it will be in chaos, which she will likely take advantage of. Hell maybe she won’t even need to do much conquering at all. Of course we can’t forget about everything that’s happening in the North and when it’ll start to effect the rest of Westeros. I have a hard time imagining that the Throne will be of much importance when the white walkers attack.

    I thought the episode was ok. I didn’t dislike the Sam/Gilly stuff but I thought it went on way longer that I would have liked it to. The actor who plays Randyll Tarly was great though.

    The Arya stuff still falls short for me. Put I’m hopeful it will get more interesting as the season progresses.

    The King’s Landing stuff was a lot more interesting than it’s been in the past. I almost feel bad for the Lannister’s. Just kidding lol. People give Tommen a hard time but we forget that he’s a child. A very sheltered child at that, so he’s very susceptible to manipulation. I forget how old he’s supposed to be but I feel bad for Tommen because he has no business on the iron throne. He’s basically being used as a pawn by all the adults in his life, even his parents (who ironically also want to protect him).

    I was trying to catch all of the flashbacks in Bran’s vision but it went by way too fast. Looks interesting, especially the Mad King.

    I guess I can see why some people thought the Dany stuff in the end was overkill. But it worked for me. I think it moved the plot forward because she’s essentially telling the Dothroki what her intentions are (sailing for Westeros to take back her throne etc.) and they all seem very enthused about it even though they’re supposed to be afraid of water. Idk I got a sense that it was *for real* this time, that we would finally see her and her army preparing to sail for Westeros very soon. I’m thinking they will wrap up things in Meereen quickly and get the f*ck outta there. Now if she gets back to Meereen and they continue to stall, then I will agree that this scene is pointless.

    Overall this episode was enjoyable, but the North/Bran stuff are the most interesting story-lines this season imo so I would have enjoyed it more if we had more of those story lines. Next week looks great though.

  668. ok.. trying to stop/pause may way through BranTV and 5:53..thats Neds hand..and if that is Lyanna…whatever caused..THAT ..it was not giving birth…just saying

  669. dragonbringer,

    Bahahah
    I told my sister dany haters gonna cry at this ending hahaha

    Loved it myself!!!!
    She is the dragon queen after all
    Ride that effing dragon and talk to your new khalassar – they had yet to show us her addressing them

  670. ramses:
    Watching Tobias Menzies in Outlander I can’t help but feel he has been underutilized on GoT. Unless Edmure has a larger role moving forward, Menzies was a rare miscast.

    Well, Edmure is kind of a wimpy character, especially on the show. And in the previous series where I had first seen Menzies, Rome, he played a kind of wimpy version of Brutus. Plus, that nearsighted squinty thing that he does helps to reinforce that impression of him being typecast as weak characters. But boy, does he ever break out of that mold as Black Jack Randall! It’s kind of interesting to rethink now, Monday-morning quarterbacking, what other character he might’ve played in GoT that would’ve made better use of his range.

  672. Icekhione,

    Exactly! Like 99% of the times jon has to do a speech to get people on his side he says something awful and another character saves him…
    In the preview tormond is once again speaking for him and we have sansa proving she is a stark and writing letters with a stark simbol. What is jon even doing there? why are they destroying the character?

  673. Tycho Nestoris:
    As poor as I found some of the story and delivery, this was 10/10.

    Benjen (leave your scarf on kylo)+RL foreshadow+Bran-o-vision+arya solo+SAM MF stealing Heartsbane lol. It was wacky. It was fun.

    Yeah as soon as they showed Heartsbane I said Sam is stealing that!! I actually loved Sam and Gilly’s scenes this time. Sometimes they are hit and miss for me but it was spot on this time.

  674. I’ve been too busy reading the comments and forgot to make my own. :O

    I loved the name drop of the Blackwoods and Mallisters as well as Arya giving her name as Mercy. Brian Cogman is always so good at giving little gifts to book fans. Marry me, Brian!

    Obviously, I’m excited about getting Benjen back. But, of course they seem to have combined with Coldhands, so I feel like this is one of those things that doesn’t really spoil the books. We’ll have to wait and see how Benjen’s story matches up with the books.

    I’m dying to see screencaps of Bran’s vision. I wonder what the significance of all the wildfire is. Is it merely to show him more about how Robert’s Rebellion went down? What was with that shot of the wildfire explosion snaking down a hall though? Mad King Aerys was killed before he could start burning everything. Was that a future vision? There’s long been fan speculation that Cersei will lose it and start wildfiring KL. Does wildfire kill White Walkers? It seems normal fire doesn’t, but wildfire is magic. The whole episode was good, but this was definitely the highlight for me. During the first Bran scene, I stood up and started yelling at the TV “IS THAT BENJEN!?” When the reveal happened in the second Bran scene, I think my squealing went up into the only dogs can hear octaves.

    I loved the Horn Hill scenes more than I though I would. Although it didn’t look like I pictured in my head. I don’t dislike how it looked, it was just different. I was so happy Gilly called out Randyll. What an asshole he is. I just wanted to hug Sam the whole time. And good for him nabbing Heartsbane. I wonder if this was only show cannon or if he’s going to obtain it somehow in the books too? Valyrian steel does kill WW. There has to be some reason the books go out of their way to point out that the Tarlys have a Valyrian steel sword. Also, Gilly’s awkwardness in the fancy gown was adorable. It reminded me of the book chapter in Acorn Hall when Arya is forced into girly clothes.

    Loved Essie Davis. I hope people are right that Arya will wind up travelling with them to Westeros and we get to see more of her character. It was cool how Lady Crane told Arya she has expressive eyes. I wonder if that was written with Maisie in mind, because I think expressive eyes are actually one of her biggest strengths as an actor.

    I’m curious to see where the whole Margaery and Tommen conversion thing will go. I wonder if the tensions between him and Cersei that will surely happen as a result o this will somehow end with Robert Strong killing Tommen? Did anyone else find it strange that in the preview for episode 7, Olenna talked about both their houses being ancient? The Tyrells are not an ancient house in the books. But maybe in the show they are. I don’t remember any mention of House Gardener or the field of fire. It’s a minor thing, but I just found it odd.

    Walder Frey is so damn creepy with his terrified child bride. Ick! I’m curious to see how the Jaime and Blackfish stuff will match up with Feast.

    I liked seeing Drogon, but as I said above, didn’t think it was well place as an episode ender. I really would have liked to see the Benjen scene, or maybe the Arya scene as the final scene instead. But I know they aren’t just making the show for book readers and a lot of the audience would’ve found that more interesting than the Benjen reveal.

    Overall, a great episode and not filler. I don’t get why people complain about the set up and character driven episodes. They’re what set this show apart from other genre fare and keep it from just being about boobs and blood.

  675. GeekFurious:
    Wow, I can’t believe they killed off [redacted] in this episode…

    Wow, I can’t believe they killed off [nobody but a rabbit and some already-dead people] in this episode…

  676. Dee:
    I NEED SOME JON ACTION

    But let’s not forget
    He didn’t wanna fight any more
    He’s doing this for Sansa

    It’s not like at hardhome when he was passionate about the fight

    I do still need some Jon action. Some dialogue and stuff

    Jon does not want to fight. Till he magically gets over his ptsd off screen when it’s time for him to fight a battle. Flayed Potatoes said it best. He has been turned into the Greyworm of Westeros.
    It’s so disappointing that in a season where every other character has had such great character development, Jon has been turned into a background character.

  677. By the time D arrives to Westeros, the King’s Landing will be on fire and Tyrells and Lannisters will be extinct except for Tyrion and Lady Olenna who will outlive them all.

  678. Lundy,

    I thought that was the same actor!! I was going to look it up so thanks for saving me a he time. He is such a good actor! Love to hate him on Outlander.

  680. Unless they had the worst midwives ever, or the Tower of Joy doubled as an abbatoir.

    selena:
    ok.. trying to stop/pause may way through BranTV and 5:53..thats Neds hand..and if that is Lyanna…whatever caused..THAT ..it was not giving birth…just saying

  681. dragonbringer,

    Well honestly I have gone back and forth on her storyline and it being good and then crappy then good again, then crappy AGAIN, but I honestly thought this was one of her best moments. I mean I loved the look on her face when she came out of the burning hut.. so bossbitch. But this was just like Im going to kick ass and I dare anyone to stop me attitude. She finally gets it that she needs to stop trying to being a politician and just get her ass to Westeros and “take what is hers”.. LOVED it…

  683. Such a shame Jon was made a secondary character. Sansa has been given all the northern storyline for herself

  684. Ice Spider,

    The funny thing is, I’m not a huge Dany fan. I’m certainly not anti-Dany, but there are many other characters I enjoy more.

    As for those wondering if people need to die, or there has to be some “epicness” for an episode not to be considered filler, well, for some, that seems to be the case. Ah well, there are plenty of us who enjoy episodes that are a bit more subdued. 🙂

  685. Ice Spider: Awwww I love Dempsie… they don’t always fit the show character to a T from book character. I want Dempsie back…. poo poo.. lol No but on a serious note I get what your saying. BUT if you remember King Robert wasn’t as big as the book character and so Dempsie actually fits the size perfectly to be Roberts son…. IJS .. my story and sticking to it.

    Could Joe Dempsie actually filmed something and not be seen? Everything has been spoiled so much I can’t see such a missed character popping up and nobody saying anything.

  686. Firannion: Having been blown away by Tobias Menzies’ acting in Outlander, I am hoping for more screentime for Edmure going forward!

    Same. I love Edmure. I’ve had a soft spot for Tobias Menzies since he played Brutus on Rome.

  687. Also, why do people presume Valyrian steel must be made in Valyria? I thought it was *just* steel forged in dragonfire (dragons came from Valyria, yes?) and woven with spells, so presumably, Dany could get such weapons made with the right spells, since she has the dragons.

    No?

  688. aabe:
    Did I forget something, or is this a Game of Thrones episode where no one except the wights were killed?

    Amazing, isn’t it? I guess the Beautiful Deaths artist gets to take a week’s vacation.

  689. Jehphg,

    I was thinking/hoping the same thing! I kept trying to rewind during the visions, and the bloody hands definitely came right after Ned says “where’s my sister”. My only concern with that is that they showed Robb at the Red Wedding right after, so it could also have been Talisa’s hand and Robb’s on her bloody stomach. So hoping that was Lyanna, though!

  690. Well, that was a BS half second scene with young Ned, lmao. Looks like episode ten we MIGHT find out why “Layana was screaming in that tower.”

  691. dvc,

    They should have just let Jon go sunbathe in Dorne and be done with him. It’d be better than forcing him along but doing nothing with him.

  692. ghost of winterfell: Jon does not want to fight. Till he magically gets over his ptsd off screen when it’s time for him to fight a battle. Flayed Potatoes said it best. He has been turned into the Greyworm of Westeros.
    It’s so disappointing that in a season where every other character has had such great character development, Jon has been turned into a background character.

    Honestly sansa seems to basically destroy a lot of jon’s moments. I am blaming it on the show need to have women on top. This season has been so over the top in that…

  694. selena:
    ok…so looking ahead.. the note Sansa was signing in preview..letter to Littlefinger or ?

    That’s my speculation. At some point, she’ll realize she does need his army. Her last shot at the Wildling camp looks like she’s worried. What could she be worried about? Maybe it’s dawning on her that they have no chance to win with these untrained men?

  695. Yeah, Mark Addy isn’t 6’6″, so you’re already operating from a fallacy when it comes to the show.

    Ice Spider: Awwww I love Dempsie… they don’t always fit the show character to a T from book character. I want Dempsie back…. poo poo.. lol No but on a serious note I get what your saying. BUT if you remember King Robert wasn’t as big as the book character and so Dempsie actually fits the size perfectly to be Roberts son…. IJS .. my story and sticking to it.

  696. Ice Spider,

    I predicted Sam would steal Heartsbane quite a while back…maybe even back when Horn Hill was announced as a location, although it may not have been that long ago. Whenever it was, I was happy to get something right, but far happier to see Sam taking the initiative like that.

  697. weirwoodtreehugger,

    Excellent recap and yes on the episode NOT being a filler.. I was just as riveted to the edge of my seat watching this episode as I have been for the entire season. As I said to another member here Idk if its bc Im watching this live for the first time or what it is but for me this is def the BEST season so far..

  699. aabe:
    Connor,

    It was Sandor’s feet in 0:30!! While the voiceover said ‘and the dead’. Gravedigger hype!! (and he was walking on a ground strewn with corpses).

    How do we know how to recognize the Hound’s feet? They aren’t exactly paws.

  700. I find myself very disappointed that Cersei had no intentions to double cross the Tyrells… Rains of Castermere had me convinced she had something big up her sleeve. Instead she tells Jaime “oh well, didn’t work, no big deal”…? What’s her game?? She can’t be ok with this really… And when is se going to choose violence, damnit?

    Jaime, Lord of Casterley Rock (???) rides to Riverrun to take it back for the Freys and runs into Brienne! Cant wait. Perhaps Jaime will agree to let Blackfish and his army go north with Brienne, to help Sansa. This gets them out of the way for now at least. Even though J & B are on opposite sides again their objectives may actually align…

  701. Ice Spider:
    dragonbringer,

    Well honestly I have gone back and forth on her storyline and it being good and then crappy then good again, then crappy AGAIN, but I honestly thought this was one of her best moments. I mean I loved the look on her face when she came out of the burning hut.. so bossbitch. But this was just like Im going to kick ass and I dare anyone to stop me attitude. She finally gets it that she needs to stop trying to being a politician and just get her ass to Westeros and “take what is hers”.. LOVED it…

    Does anybody really want to see danny conquering westeros? Who is she goi to conquer it from? Acording to spoilers almost all bad guys will die. Does anybody believe the lanisters will be in power when danny arrives?

  702. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    Well I wasn’t able to watch and keep up on all the information coming in about this new season. I do like to hear as much as I can but I still like being surprised as well.. so I had no thoughts on the sword until I saw it, and the first thought was like, “he’s stealing that bitch”. But kiddo’s to you for thinking he would steal it way back then.. always impressive when ppl guess plots or storylines way ahead of when it happens.

  704. KG,

    I haven’t seen any screenshots of the vision yet. What is it about the ToJ scene that makes you think the blood can’t be from childbirth? There are a number of things that can go wrong jeopardizing mother and child. For instance, a postpartum hemorrhage would result in a excessive loss of blood.

    If I can be so bold as to quote Brienne of Tarth, ‘”childbirth is a bloody business”

  705. Just got my double take via Sky Atlantic…. I fucking luv’d it! It had the lot (well almost) 🙂

    Uncle Benjen coming to Bran and Meera’s rescue – Sam and Gilly arrive at Hornhill and get a chilly reception from Randyll (and then decide to leave and nick his sword Heartsbane!)- Arya deciding not to poison Lady Crane (and recovering Needle) – Jamie and Mace confront the Sparrows – Walder Frey pissed off that his sons didn’t find the Blackfish and eliminate him and lose him Riverrun – and to top all that good shit …

    The final kick ass scene with Dany riding off and flying back on Drogon and stoking up the Dothraki to follow her to Westeros – Just fucking brilliant (that’s ‘awesome’ as you yanks say) .

    A really good episode. Season 6 just gets better and better – Caw caw, time for this raven to fly back to my nest – Its 4:45am here 😮

  706. ThisGirlHasNoName:
    One thing that just occured to me…

    Jamie is headed to Riverrun to back the Freys.

    BRIENNE is headed to Riverrun to back the Starks/Tullys, right??

    That’s going to be an interesting reunion!
    ____

    Wouldn’t it be cool if Jaime and Brienne battled with the two halves of Ice?

    Prediction: Gendry will return, and he will be important! Between them, he and Sam can figure out how to make Valyrian steel, or at least how to forge existing bits and pieces into weapons.

  707. Pj,

    I think it’s possible (also, I just really wanna see Gendry, again). After all, we got Benjen back, and no word of him filming leaked out.

  709. Praise The Sun:
    I like Randyll Tarly. He is just like my dad, straight to the point and no bullshit. Sam is kind of a fat useless bum so I don’t blame Randyll for being ashamed of him.

    About time somebody said it, no wonder he was disowned he is worst at hornhill than he was at the wall. He just sits there and takes it like the load he is, i really hate his character if Westeros ends up being saved thanks to this waste of space may be they all deserve to serve the Nights King.

  710. Jon’s been my favorite character from the first and I really don’t mind how they’re treating him this season. I don’t believe it will be all there is left to see of him in future episodes. Sansa stepping up the plate is fine by me; Jon will hit Ramsay where it hurts and deliver a few more quality scenes thereafter, I wager.

    As for the episode? Eh, I’d pin it down alongside 6×03 as one of the season’s weaker installments. Still a quality time, though, and it’ll likely grow on me later.

    This has been a phenomenal year thus far. 6×03 and 6×06 just haven’t hooked me the same as the other four.

    Arya was golden here, though. Benjen’s return was golden. And I’m glad Jaime’s finally exiting King’s Landing.

    And Gilly. Gilly, Gilly, Gilly. MVP.

  711. Sam: That’s my speculation. At some point, she’ll realize she does need his army. Her last shot at the Wildling camp looks like she’s worried. What could she be worried about? Maybe it’s dawning on her that they have no chance to win with these untrained men?

    It seems pretty obvious it is a letter to northern lords, asking for their soldiers. Otherwise the stark sigil wouldn t be that important. However she shouldn t be writing those letters or at least not write them alone because she wants jon to be the leader. I can t understand that storyline…

  712. Cameryn,

    Totally agree–there were lots of great developments! I don’t know how people can call this filler. It is a bridge episode to the second half of the season, so yes, there’s not a ton of action, but honestly I think episodes like these are the some of the best since we get more character development. The season has been going full-force so it was nice to slow it down to build up more anticipation.

  713. The North Remembers,

    from the wiki:

    “Following the demise of King Robert, his successor, Joffrey Baratheon, ordered the Hall to be further modified, as he desired the throne room’s appearance to mirror the one it had during the time of the Targaryens. The vine motifs and candelabra are removed and replaced with large, metallic braziers constantly ablaze. The stained-glass window behind the throne is also replaced with one depicting the seven-pointed star in yellow and red – the colors of House Lannister.”

  714. Pizdainpula:
    HereBeDragons,

    You guys always say that when it involves Dany,just admit you are biased and your opinion doesn’t mean shit to the general audience .

    Dragonbringer? Is this your new incarnation?

  715. Lady_Vicious1984:
    Jehphg,

    I was thinking/hoping the same thing! I kept trying to rewind during the visions, and the bloody hands definitely came right after Ned says “where’s mysister”. My only concern with that is that they showed Robb at the Red Wedding right after, so it could also have been Talisa’s hand and Robb’s on her bloody stomach. So hoping that was Lyanna, though!

    I just went back and rewatched the RR. There is a similar shot of Rob and Telisa, but it’s definitely not the same..

  716. Haven’t read all the comments yet, but before I do, my boy D-R-O-G-O-N!!!! Where were you hiding? Were you just there all along? Whaaat???

  718. Overall, a great set up episode.

    Benjen! I’m curious to see where this is going. Does he know Jon has been killed and resurrected? Does Bran know?

    I’m not entirely convinced that Margery has converted for real. She’s playing the long game. Whether or not her plans succeed still remains to be seen though.

    Mace Tyrell and that headgear tho.

    This episode made me appreciate Gilly more and more.

    And oh, I’m kinda over Dany’s speeches. Enough already.

  720. Don’t you guys think it’s a bit too soon to say that they are giving more scenes to Sansa than Jon? They only appeared together in 2 episodes, and Jon’s story is still the one with the most screentime in the season, easily, he just didn’t appeared much in episodes 5 and 6.
    Im guessing Jon’s story dominated the first 4, then he takes a brake in 5 and 6, then he comes back in a big way in the last 4.

  721. The Helmet That Was Promised 😀 😀 😀 Shame we didn’t get a really good close up but still loved it. My favourite thing so far in GoT was the mammoth and this is up there with it so I think photoshop is calling to combine the two. Plus Mace’s fab mustache really matches the patterns on his armour in both curving style and colour. That family sure can accessorize! Lucky the Tyrell army weren’t trying to sneak up on anyone, were they wearing tap dancing shoes or something? The High Sparrow is SO dead, that smug look will not last long!

    Anyone think from next week’s preview that they guy with the Glover banner behind him could be Tim McInnery?

  722. maria:
    Dinner at the Tarly place was adorable. I love Gilly and Sam.

    Cersei and Jaime were melodrama incarnate, omg. I think Marg’s faking religion to get herself and Loras out of the dungeons. This way she also screws Cersei, who will face her trial without Jaime.

    Glad Uncle Benjen showed up, but what exactly happened to him?

    Dany: It seems that every human between Meereen and the Narrow Sea is fated to grovel before her. I’m learning to love the predictable story and Clarke’s limited facial expressions, as these bits make for convenient bathroom breaks.

    Go Arya and Needle! Go west, super-Stark ninja

    ____
    According to the HBO synopsis: “Disfigured and frostbitten, Benjen explains he was almost turned by the White Walkers, but the Children stopped the process by plunging a shard of dragonglass into his heart. He warns Bran he must learn to control the Three-Eyed Raven’s power before the Night King comes.”

  724. thurg00d420,

    Lol I know right? Robert Aramayo said he’d be appearing “briefly” in this episode…he didn’t lie. But he left out a tinnyyy bit of info…that it’d be a repeat of a scene he was already in, haha. What a tease!

  725. Dee,

    Yes she must finally accept who she is ..glad you and your loved it

    And with this scene I think we can put an end to dany doesnt have control over dragons to rest..

    Ice Spider,

    That’s the thing she stopped believing in herself and started doubting herself when she took meereen and chained her inner dragon..

    But now she embraces her dragons and stop doubting and become confident in her

  726. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    I hope so… the brotherhood was mentioned. And I will also keep my eye open for Nymeria.

    PS. Did anyone notice the ‘naked’ quip Jaime said? People mocked Ser Barristan when Joffrey dismissed him and threw his cape at him.

  727. I also don’t understand the complaints about Jon Snow being “subdued” or whatever, especially the implications that Sansa is somehow taking something away from him (but that’s a whole other can of worms).

    I think the way they’ve written Jon Snow so far is the only way that makes sense when you factor in what he’s been through and his complicated past with Winterfell. Why do people expect Jon Snow, a bastard to be brimming with confidence at the prospect of people in the North following him after what he’s experienced in addition to his bastard status? Which of those things is supposed to inspire this bad-ass confidence that people are wanting to see from Jon? Not to mention his very controversial decision of letting the wildlings through the wall. Jon has a lot working against him, and he knows that, hence why he’s reserved and unsure of himself.

    Not to mention this is a very personal war for Jon (and Sansa). Sure you could argue Ramsey having control of Winterfell is bad for all the northern houses since he’s such an unpredictable little shit. However, this a very personal battle for Jon since Ramsey called him out, so he essentially would be recruiting people to fight for HIM. Can you imagine why Jon the Bastard of Winterfell would feel uneasy about that?

    I do expect the show will devote more time to Jon’s POV, and I am very much looking forward to it, but his reaction right now makes perfect sense to me. I guess I can also understand why fans would find it unsatisfying if he’s you’re absolute favorite but there are like 10000 characters on this show sometimes your fave character won’t be the main focus.

  729. Clob,

    I think it is correct that she was better “blind” in the end. My gut says that is why she went and got needle, layed down, and blew the candle out so she was blind once again. I mean why would she stay there and just get some sleep?

  730. Giocrypt: About time somebody said it, no wonder he was disowned he is worst at hornhill than he was at the wall. He just sits there and takes it like the load he is, i really hate his character if Westeros ends up being saved thanks to this waste of space may be they all deserve to serve the Nights King.

    Mayhaps he’s a MAESTER and not a fighter?? Not everyone can be Jon Snow.. gosh.. be easy on poor Sam.. ;(

  731. Thronedorne,
    I don’t see any reason to think that. Bran was getting the history of Westeros downloaded into his head. There is no particular reason to think that Bran was affecting any of them. After all, madness runs in the Targaryen family. We do not really need any other explanation for Aerys.

    The Bastard: There is no way The White Walkers are pure evil. GRRM has already said this isn’t a LOTR type of story. They are still men in there. Would be interesting to hear them talk.

    It might be closer to SciFi cyborgs that have some trace of human, but something unique as well. They clearly have their own will, too. In a big way, they are victims: but victims of their own making, as their progenitors forced the Children to do this.

    But you are right: the Walkers are not “evil.” Just as in our world, there really isn’t such a thing as “evil” in Martin’s stories: indeed, most of the worst things that people in both reality and Martin’s stories do is in the name of “good.” I suspect that Jon, Daeny, etc., figuring this out about the Walkers is going to be huge. And I’m still betting that we’ve got a similar reveal for R’hllor coming up. (That probably is Introduced Species #4….

    Darkrobin,
    No, I don’t think that they are parallels. I think that it’s just a big coincidence.

  732. Alex,

    Did you see the episode 7 preview? It has Sansa doing things, it has Sansa convincing people, with some help from Davos while Jon just looks at her. So it’s quite obvious how the next episode will go.
    It’s clear the writers want the northern storyline to be all about Sansa and they only need Jon to fight the battle, as obviously Sansa can’t do that too.

  734. By the way, is Sam’s stay in the south going to be a lot shorter than we anticipated? It does not seem that he can be going to Oldtown with his father’s sword.

  736. Grayven Reyne: Despite the published schedule, seems they decided to go ahead and take Memorial Day off this year.

    Oooh, nice burn. Snarkity snark. Heehee!

  737. I saw a theory that Dany was going to be the antagonist of the series, and after tonight I’m thinking they may be right. There is not much to like about her character and it is clear that they are setting her up to be the bad guy/girl. As a book reader, I skipped most of her chapters and read them after reading the other chapters. The show version of Dany is marginally better than book version, but still not very likeable.

  738. dragonbringer,

    please… inner dragon… controls dragons…
    If danny farts does fire come out?

    It is always the same thing and them with danny since season 1. Sometimes it gets more interesting and other times comes back to stupid and repetitive…
    I would like to know where dannys confidence comes from given her track record…
    And taking into account he speeches and actions she is loking like a mad targ more and more

  741. ghost of winterfell:
    Alex,

    Did you see the episode 7 preview? It has Sansa doing things, it has Sansa convincing people, with some help from Davos while Jon just looks at her. So it’s quite obvious how the next episode will go.
    It’s clear the writers want the northern storyline to be all about Sansa and they only need Jon to fight the battle, as obviously Sansa can’t do that too.

    I understand your desire to see him talk, but about 50% of the speeches were actually about Jon directly or indirectly, this whole season main mystery is also about Jon and the BIG event of E10 is also going be his reveal. With so many stories to be covered, we need to curb our appetite. At the end it will still be about him as well.

  742. Firannion: Randyll was admirably horrible. I was disappointed that Sam’s brother Dickon was so one-note, though. He seemed like basically the same dim, self-satisfied, privileged prat that he played when he was McLaggen in the Potter movies.

    Ah, is that who it was? Well, given that he had 3 lines, there is not much by which to judge the character. I wonder if we’ll be seeing any more of them: they seem sort of extraneous at this point.

  744. Pj,

    Yes.. its possible. No one leaked pics or news of Benjen coming back.. at least NOT to my knowledge. But admittedly I do NOT read all articles and scour the internet days on end to see all the spoilery.. I do like to have surprises along the way. Im guessing Gendry HAS to come back since he is the only known son that survived the kill off of King Roberts bastards. At least the ones that are mentioned in the show. Im REALLY HOPING him and Arya are going to be shipped.. he did call her his Lady after all.. how sweet was that?

  745. Jack Bauer 24:
    Was that the Hound in the next preview? They only showed his legs and there were dead bodies on the ground.

    I’m thinking that it might have been Septon Meribald/Elder Brother, ministering to the dying on a battlefield.

  746. Firannion,

    LoL ..yeah anyone who a speaks about dany must be me

    Maybe you are that icekhione

    If I have to say something I will say straight …I don’t hide behind a mask .ask sue the fury if you want

    I like how you just keep picking the ones that favor dany but keep ignoring who they are responding to another troll who keeps whining in each episode ..

    Double standard much ..like you said there will be people who will have different taste like character to who you dont like ..so just ignore those comments you don’t like …but if you are going to act as someone who is above all and calling out people then do it justly not just on those who you don’t like .

  747. Connor,

    No, because Bran is in love with her in the books, too.

    So, I’d say that’s not exactly shipping in the traditional Internet sense of the term. More like… cheering on the protagonist. 🙂

  748. I am rewatching the episode. I am at the part with the HS. I saw the look on Margaery’s face when the Tyrell army came to the Sept. She was thinking, “Ugh. They are messing up my plan.” Maybe I am wrong. I saw something that wasn’t there in the scene.

  749. LonRice,

    The problem is that he doesn t do anything or as you out it when he does is always subdued.
    Does it make any sense to have sansa calling all the houses, convincing them she is a start and then here is the guy who will lead you… Since sansa arrived that jon’s lines/role is stupid. And now having sansa being so important with convincing the northern lords it is cripling his character. It became sansa’s story…

  750. So even though GRRM’s famous manuscript comment to his editor replied NO to “Is Coldhands Benjen?”, Dan Weiss in Inside the Episode clearly labelled our flame-flinging hero “Coldhands-Benjen”

    Alright. So to D&D the distinction wasn’t important enough, or they really wanted to gather support from theorizing book readers. Or they really needed an explanation for Joseph Mawle’s changed facial look when 5 years older LOL!

    Of course I buy it, I was disappointed at GRRM shooting down the theory.

  751. Wimsey,

    Certainly doesn’t. It doesn’t seem like he’d be going anywhere with it. Even if he kills Randall Tarly with it — he’s taken the Oath. Horn Hill is Dickon’s.

    Though I suppose Dickon might let him keep the sword (it has a false ring to it though).

    Indeed, Sam escaping with Heartsbane has a false ring to it, too. The whole thing seemed off to me, frankly.

  752. Tycho Nestoris:
    Ice Spider,

    Bran drinking the blood. “Burn them all.”

    Im sorry, did I miss a funny and/or am too tired to understand what your saying? Seriously Im sorry.. I just wanted to try and respond but not sure what your saying… ;(

  753. Angela:
    I am rewatching the episode. I am at the part with the HS. I saw the look on Margaery’s face when the Tyrell army came to the Sept. She was thinking, “Ugh. They are messing up my plan.” Maybe I am wrong. I saw something that wasn’t there in the scene.

    I noticed that too.

  755. Lavignac:
    So even though GRRM’s famous manuscript comment to his editor replied NO to “Is Coldhands Benjen?”, Dan Weiss in Inside the Episode clearly labelled our flame-flinging hero “Coldhands-Benjen”

    Alright. So to D&D the distinction wasn’t important enough, or they really wanted to gather support from theorizing book readers. Or they really needed an explanation for Joseph Mawle’s changed facial look when 5 years older LOL!

    Of course I buy it, I was disappointed at GRRM shooting down the theory.

    Well, Jorah and Jon Connington weren’t the same person either. 😉 I’ll take it.

  756. I have created a video of just the flashbacks and put it on YouTube so we could run it at a quarter time (via the little gear/wheel icon on the bottom right) to see all of the scenes. Even then and even pausing like mad, it is especially hard to capture the first few frames.

    We have:
    Wildfire storage under the Red Keep, I guess (Could that be important in fighting the wights? I would think so!)
    Dragon (Drogon?) flying over which Essos city?
    Mad King on Iron Throne
    Night’s King at Hardhome
    Karsi
    Bran falling from his tower
    Lands of Winter? Heart of Winter?
    Red Wedding/Catelyn’s death
    Dragon flying over same city
    Khaleesi & baby dragons
    Others making Other babies with Craster’s son
    Wildfire storage
    Mad King on throne
    Night’s King
    Catelyn
    Dragon over same city
    Khaleesi & baby dragons
    Baby Other
    Ned’s head
    Bran
    ***cut some non-flashback footage***
    Bran
    Lands of Winter
    Dragon over same city
    Khaleesi & baby dragons
    Baby Other
    Crows flying everywhere in a dark forest
    Some sort of netting (weirwood network)?
    Gorgeously neon green wildfire
    Longer shot of Mad King on throne: BURN THEM ALL!!!
    Green wildfire explosion in the depths of what I assume is the Red Keep, where they have stored all of the huge pots of wildfire – pot after pot after pot
    Back to storing the wildfire in that same spot
    Jaime drawing his sword to end the Mad King
    Young Ned, outside ToJ (see, we did get it!): Where’s my sister?!
    MONEY SHOT: Lyanna’s hand on a bed of blood!
    Jaime withdrawing his sword from the Mad King
    Red Wedding/Roose killing Rob
    Jaime stabbing the now horizontal Mad King
    Crow/Raven taking flight in a green, well-lit forest
    Red Wedding/Robb
    Leaf making Night’s King
    Other at Hardhome with Jon, presumably
    Jaime, badass on the Iron Throne
    Wildfire explosion
    Dragon over same city
    Khaleesi & baby dragons
    Baby Other
    Shadow shot of the (Iron) Throne Room from the trailer, which we can now confirm is Jaime and the Mad King, right?
    Crows rising in the dark forest
    Leaf making Night’s King
    Jaime and Mad King
    Wildfire really exploding
    Wights running through dark forest (possibly same one as the ravens), coming close to Bran and Meera but not yet there
    Bran
    ***cut some non-flashback footage***
    Bran
    Bran falling from tower
    Wildfire storage
    Mad King yelling, “burn them, burn them all!!!”
    Wildfire storage
    Hardhome gates coming down
    Night’s King raising the wights at Hardhome
    Wights in Bran’s current forest, coming closer
    Hardhome with how-do-you-like-me-now Night’s King
    Lots of Hardhome
    One of the Four Horsemen at Hardhome
    Wights rising at Hardhome
    Wights in Bran’s current forest, coming closer
    Hardhome gates coming down
    Night’s King raising the wights at Hardhome
    Wights in Bran’s current forest, coming closer
    Hardhome with how-do-you-like-me-now Night’s King
    Lots of Hardhome
    One of the Four Horsemen at Hardhome
    Night’s King watching Hardhome from cliff
    Army of wights on the march (from Hardhome?)
    Bran at the Heart of Winter where Night’s King grabs him
    Wights in Bran’s current forest, almost there
    Bran wakes

  757. dvc,

    I wonder what will firannion has to say about your comment ..

    Yeah I am talking about books and themes present in the books and use it in the show ..
    Hwe AdWD story is about her chaining herself which is symbolised by her chaining the dragons ..and TWOw will be about her embracing her family words

  758. ghost of winterfell

    Jon will become King in the North. Think about this logically. Jon is more important than Sansa she’s not taking his story. Jon isn’t going to become her puppet relax! Lol

  759. They’ll have to do a Mace Tyrell Funko pop figurine with that lovely helmet! He always reminds me of the caterpillar in A Bug’s Life that wants to be a beeeeuuuuutiful butterfly!

  760. ghost of winterfell,

    They never showed Jon too much in this season’s promos, and it’s less than 30 seconds, so I won’t read too much into this. I will only complain when I see the entire season, if this does indeed happen, since Jon is by far my favorite character. But I don’t agree with most of you guys’ points. I see Jon as the militar leader, and Sansa as the political leader. So far at least.

  762. Can I reiterate how much I just love Sam and Gilly?? Gilly laying the verbal smackdown to Randyll was my absolute favorite scene of the episode actually. They’re too damn adorable (Gilly wearing a dress and not being comfortable just made me smile) and I love that they stuck it to Sam’s father. Another scene that made me giddy was Benjen Coldhands!! I don’t care if it’s exactly what GRRM had in mind for either character. It makes sense to have him be Coldhands. I literally shouted YES! when he showed up.

    Arya was also brilliant. I hate how petty The Waif is… She’s always had a chip on her shoulder with Arya since the start for no apparent reason and it’s annoyingly childish. Hopefully Arya offs her next episode. Anyway I loved the episode. I have to watch it again. Those flashback need to be screen capped!

    BURN THEM ALLLLL!

  763. ghost of winterfell: Did you see the episode 7 preview? It has Sansa doing things, it has Sansa convincing people, with some help from Davos while Jon just looks at her. So it’s quite obvious how the next episode will go.

    Well, it has Sansa trying to convince people, yet clearly on the defensive. I am wondering how well it is going for her. It looks like the Glovers are unconvinced. It seems that they wisely left the Wildlings behind and out of the picture: but Sansa marrying Ramsay might be held against her.

    On the other end, Tormund seems to be rallying the Wildlings to Jon.

    Shadow Shifter: Plus Gilly, and the baby.

    heh, good point! I was thinking more of what Randyl would want back as opposed to what the Maesters would allow into the Citadel! But you are absolutely correct.

    So, will Sam go back North? Will he get on board with Team Daeny?? Will he go to Westerosi Weight Watchers??? Enquiring minds want to know!!!

  765. Lavignac:
    So even though GRRM’s famous manuscript comment to his editor replied NO to “Is Coldhands Benjen?”, Dan Weiss in Inside the Episode clearly labelled our flame-flinging hero “Coldhands-Benjen”

    Alright. So to D&D the distinction wasn’t important enough, or they really wanted to gather support from theorizing book readers. Or they really needed an explanation for Joseph Mawle’s changed facial look when 5 years older LOL!

    Of course I buy it, I was disappointed at GRRM shooting down the theory.

    This is going to be unpopular, but it always so seemed right to me that Coldhands was Benjen, that the editorial leak which suggested he was not caused me to think that either:

    (1) The Editorial leak of GRRM’s denial was not bona fide; or
    (2) GRRM was changing Coldhands identity in reaction to the fans having figured it out.

    Now, (2) is a very controversial thing to say as GRRM swears he has not and will not do such a thing. I hope he is entirely truthful and fair about that comment. But if so, then I must think that the so called editorial note cannot be accurate…

    Because Coldhands was always Benjen, was always supposed to be Benjen and it feels overwhelming right that he is. If for some reason GRRM really does have Coldhands as somebody else? Then in this case, GRRM got his own story wrong — and D&D got it right.

    And that has not happened very damned often in this show (Ned seeing Arya on “Baelor’s” statue was one example; Ollie and that subplot was perhaps another. There might be a third but I am at a loss to recall it right now if there is. Certainly not many times…)

    Anyway, if the series changes this from the books and collapses the two characters? Then it does. But if so, then D&D’s spin seemed entirely correct to me and is my preferred version.

  768. LyannaBanna: Prediction: Gendry will return, and he will be important! Between them, he and Sam can figure out how to make Valyrian steel, or at least how to forge existing bits and pieces into weapons.

    Oh, excellent point (pardon the pun). I wonder how they’d cross paths.

  769. Aryamad: Gilly laying the verbal smackdown to Randyll was my absolute favorite scene of the episode actually. They’re too damn adorable (Gilly wearing a dress and not being comfortable just made me smile) and I love that they stuck it to Sam’s father.

    My favorite part of that was that it felt like Renaissance Downton Abbey.

  770. Connor:
    Screenshots from the Bran vision in the beginning of the episode.

    http://imgur.com/gallery/5WMdv/new

    Cool! Thanks so much. Must be painful for Bran to see the deaths of his parents and brother.

    This looks like Bran is learning that the key to fighting the WW are wildfire and the dragons?

  771. aabe:
    HereBeDragons,

    Yes. It was all fast. But the editing made it sound like he had a point – Bran was watching armies of wights, and ‘Burn them all’ is exactly what needed to be done. Makes me wonder if there is some truth in those theories about Bran or Bloodraven warging into Aerys causing him to go mad.

    “Burn them all” was Mad King Aerys talking about King’s Landers, not the wights – or at least I think so. The sequence of visions is definitely meant to imply that the wildfire Aerys used to try to blow up King’s Landing would be perfect for the Wall and the wights. I hope Sam gets that formula, too, at the Citadel.

  772. Wimsey,

    I think it makes sense for Sansa to get a little push back here they need to play up Littlefingers manipulation of her “your brothers army”. The houses are going to declare for Jon not Sansa.

  773. I know this is a little out there, but Jaqen has always hinted that he knew Arya wouldn’t complete her training. Maybe even gave her special treatment. I just wonder if her true test in the end is killing the Waif and this is still all a test. The Waif, being a faceless man, seems to have a lot of resent toward Arya which you’d think wouldn’t be the case after all of her training.

  774. Alex:
    Don’t you guys think it’s a bit too soon to say that they are giving more scenes to Sansa than Jon? They only appeared together in 2 episodes, and Jon’s story is still the one with the most screentime in the season, easily, he just didn’t appeared much in episodes 5 and 6.
    Im guessing Jon’s story dominated the first 4, then he takes a brake in 5 and 6, then he comes back in a big way in the last 4.

    I just want to point out that Jon was a corpse for the first two episodes. He was not present and his death was an event for the Watch to maneuver around but he was not active. And, I don’t think it’s a competition between Jon and Sansa – that’s not my opinion, at least. And, while, I think it’s too soon to give up on a character’s inner life post-rez, my wariness remains.

    Like, I don’t know why they couldn’t even have had ONE Jon and Melisandre scene regarding their post resurrection dynamic. I know more about how Tormund and Brienne interact than about Jon and the woman who basically gave his life back. Is she following him around preaching about the PTWP? Is he actively avoiding her? It’s little things like that niggle, as both a fan of Mel and Jon. Jon takes Mel along when he goes to meet with Wildlings and Northern Lords. Why? Obligation? I don’t know and it’s frustrating.

    Lastly, about the Wildlings, I should apologize to the poster who, a few weeks ago, said that they were being roped into a battle that wasn’t theirs, that they were being asked to die for Winterfell, for high lords’ games. I disagreed and I might have been wrong (at least partly). The promo with Tormund asking the Wildlings to fight and die for Jon seemed to refute my opinion that it became the Wildlings’ fight the minute Ramsay threatened them. We’ll see how the episode goes, but yeah.

    Steel_Wind

    Your comments about BenHands is spot on and I prefer it too. That almost felt like sacrilege just now.

  775. Did Bran’s vision give us a first glimpse at “promise me”? Because I don’t remember seeing these images before. Could they be from previous episodes (like Talisa after being stabbed or something like that?)

    http://imgur.com/xVNhjUV

    http://imgur.com/3oK2cWV

    BTW: first time commenting here, I just needed other opinions 🙂

  777. Wimsey: Ironically, yes!I write “ironically,” because there was a scene in the season trailer that many people concluded was Jaime stabbing Aerys.And: lo!We just saw it!However: it was a completely different scene that in the season trailer.

    That scene was in there, too! For about one one-thousandth of a second. (Perhaps a tenth to a half of a second, truly, but you had to watch fast.)

  778. Danielle Stark: Dany’s EPIC episode ending scenes this season have not triggered much emotion from me like they used to… and I really wish I didn’t feel that way, I swear.

    Seems like a growing minority of us feel that way. I think that Dany’s ‘relatableness’ diminishes in inverse proportion to her power. And as a lifelong feminist who usually is more than ready to get up and cheer for an empowered, self-actualized female character, it disappoints me that I can’t seem to work up any enthusiasm for her piece of the story anymore. Not sure how much of it is the arc itself, its dependence on inherited privilege and superhero powers, its geographic isolation from the core of the saga, and/or just Emilia’s narrow acting range.

    I understand that a large portion of the audience is into Dany, for whatever reasons, and it’s OK with me that she gets a larger-than-average share of the screentime (good opportunity for me to head into the kitchen for a beer upon my second or third rewatch). But I kind of wish that they didn’t almost always reserve the ending of the episode for her big boffo scenes. It almost makes me feel manipulated by the showrunners, like I’m being told, ‘Now you’re going to sit here quietly like a good girl and WATCH THIS because it has lots of swelling music and CGI effects and it’s going to be AWWWESOME!’ And I’m like, uh huh ::eyeroll::

  779. Louis,

    I am not bothered about who is more important. Sansa can be more proactive, assertive etc, provided there was some story for Jon and character development. If others crown Jon as KitN while he stands in a corner doing and saying nothing, that’s not character development. If Jon is afraid to fight, afraid to claim his Stark heritage, give us some scenes that show this, not just expect us to assume this while he stands in a corner. The way things are going, it looks like this is how things will go till it’s time for Jon to fight a battle at which time all his ptsd would have magically disappeared, since we have it from that EW piece that Jon will be fighting 10 people at a time.

  780. Okay, where to even begin? I agree that this episode can be considered a “filler” or a “set-up” episode. This season seems to have a pattern/pace where episode 1 to 4 set up and 5 delivers, so I think 5 to 8 will set up, 9 will deliver, and 10 will obviously be the wtf closer episode.

    Anyways, Benjen Stark is definitely been combined with Coldhands (and yes, that’s the same actor, just with some make up and stuff to make look a little dead). Bran’s visions were great and gave us a sneak peek at whats to come! The Mad King has been spotted! “BURN THEM ALLLL!” I believe we will see him yet again in that scene in one of the trailers where they show the shadows of someone slaying someone else with a sword. from behind (Jamie slicing the Mad King, most likely).

    Sam and Gilly scenes were a bit of snore for me, but still enjoyed them. The actors portraying Sam’s family were on point the entire time! Loved seeing Gilly clean up and also stand up for Sam! And Sam coming back saying FUCK IT, lemme grab that sword and lets gtfo!

    King’s Landing + High Sparrow + Tyrell was a major sort let down for me? ESPECIALLY with Tommen accepting the faith and all that jazz! I’m just so over hearing the HS yap on and on about sinning and stuff. This scene would have been better if there was at least a little action, not necessarily killing anyone, but definitely some physical fighting that gets fizzled out by Tommen coming and annoucing his devotion to the Faith.

    Jamie’s character has fallen so flat and boring to me that I hope this trip to the Riverrun spices him up again! Cersei is one of my top 5 characters, and I love her, and I’m just so glad she told her puppy Jaime to follow orders and leave. Ready to see her CHOOSE VIOLENCE already! I’m sure she gonna wreck a few bitches!

    Furthermore, I totally agree that we need to stop giving Khaleesi these scenes of “empowerment” at the end of episodes! Getting waaaay too repetitive, and this is coming from someone who has adored Khaleesi’s story from the start. However, I do understand that this scene was mostly done with the intention of showing that Khaleesi AS DRAGON RIDER pumping her troops up and to emphasize she’s no longer scared of all the power she’s accumulated so far. At this point, I need her to get back to her city, and roast Sons of the Harpy with help of her Khalasar, and JUST GET THE FUCK TO WESTEROS. Getting real tired of writers messing up Khaleesi’s character always trying to remind the viewers of her accomplishments. WE GET IT!

    Also, the whole 1,000 ships being thrown around again is for sure foreshadowing. I really LOVED Kingsmoot and Euron, thought he was kinda hot, and his zero fucks given attitude and just knowing what to do right away (when Yara and Theon stole the ships). He wasnt like “What am I gonna do now? 🙁 ” He was like y’all mofos better get to work if you want me to give you the world!” Hope we get to see more of him.

    Lastly, Arya retrieving Needle and realizing that ironically she and Cersei have a lot in common (when she is talking to Lady Crane) was cool. Arya says something along the lines of Cersei wanting revenge for what was done to her, and in that moment, I think it hit her that as much as she wants to be No One, she really wants to avenge her family much more! Loved how Jaquen H’ghar remained rather neutral, but became Arya’s own enemy this episode. Excited to see her fight The Waif! The rivalry between them is great.

    Also….what’s going on in Dorne? You cant kill the king there and then just leave it at that.

    Overall, I agree with those who say this was this season’s weakest episode so far.

  781. Dee: Plus she really had to convince the dothraki that they had to forget their fears and go on ships
    If I remember correctly the dothraki don’t like water and don’t ride ships

    It also was in keeping with Daeny’s egalitarian principles. Clearly being a blood rider is an accomplishment for a Dothraki male. She just made them all blood riders: that is one hell of a way to inspire loyalty. And, of course, when you do it while perched on top of a dragon, it makes the individual Dothraki feel like he’s following someone very powerful, which is important to them.

    The trailer for next week makes me wonder if we will see something similar for Jon with the Wildlings. I wonder if they will proclaim him King Beyond the Wall or something like that. I mean, why miss a parallelism?

  782. Ok so I just finished watching it.

    Haven’t read the thread yet but will after this.

    I was in tears of excitement when Dany showed up on Drogon to give her speech to the Dothraki that Khal Drogo originally gave to her. What an effective and clever way to bring that season one speech, yet magnify it and make it even more emotional.

    All I got to say is that last Dany scene on Drogon has got to be the money shot of this whole series so far IMO. I am still in tears. Fucking Dungeons and Dragons come to life and not in a stupid cheesy way, in a way that is adult, rated R and emotionally invested.

    God I love this show!!!

    I have been waiting 6 years to see that shit and boy was it worth the wait.

  783. Steel_Wind,

    Then in this case, GRRM got his own story wrong — and D&D got it right.

    I like Benjen separate from Coldhands. I think the combination works well too. Leaf, more so than the manuscript, squashed benjen=coldhands when she says, “They killed him long ago.”

  786. Alex:
    Don’t you guys think it’s a bit too soon to say that they are giving more scenes to Sansa than Jon? They only appeared together in 2 episodes, and Jon’s story is still the one with the most screentime in the season, easily, he just didn’t appeared much in episodes 5 and 6.
    Im guessing Jon’s story dominated the first 4, then he takes a brake in 5 and 6, then he comes back in a big way in the last 4.

    Well, he also didn’t dominate ep1 and 2 as he was just mostly a corpse. 🙂 Episode 3 was his “biggest” so far but not that big. I’m guessing ep9 will be his major episode. It looks like he will continue to be this muted, brooding man in the next episode (based on the preview). I hope I’m wrong though!

  787. In terms of Dany’s supposed epic ending scene, it fell flat for me; VERY flat.

    I think the problem was the sound engineers. The response from the gathered Dothraki horde sounded like 15 guys on a soundstage, not a throng of 1000s screaming loyalty and death to her enemies.

    It fell flat, because it sounded flat.

    It felt hollow and entirely wrong. I blame the sound guys and the director who ultimately approved that cut. They dropped the ball on that one. They spent all this money on the visuals — and cut corners on something as cheap as the sound.

    Bad call.

  788. dragonbringer:
    dvc,

    I wonder what will firannion has to say about your comment ..

    Yeah I am talking about books and themes present in the books and use it in the show ..
    Hwe AdWD story is about her chaining herself which is symbolised by her chaining the dragons ..and TWOw will be about her embracing her family words

    Book danny is much better than show danny.
    In the books danny isn t always giving speeches about she is the queen, she will take westeros, she is a better leader, obey me or burn, etc…

    In the books danny is actually a good person that started by wanting to conquer westeros and along the way started caring about other things like the slaves. In the books danny isn t a tyrant that either is obeyed or burns other leaders and steals their people. In the books danny is inspiring while in the show she is a creepy, arrogant, tyrant and full of herself.
    When targs come close to their inner dragon is because they are mad and start burning innocents. In the books danny is a women with some relationship with dragons, in the show she is some kind of super women that can even control dragons.

  789. Giocrypt: About time somebody said it, no wonder he was disowned he is worst at hornhill than he was at the wall. He just sits there and takes it like the load he is, i really hate his character if Westeros ends up being saved thanks to this waste of space may be they all deserve to serve the Nights King.

    Finding yourself saying “Wow, I really identify with Randyll Tarly” SHOULD be roughly equivalent to finding yourself saying “Wow, most of the worlds problems really are due to people like me” but you two seem to think you came out smelling like roses here.

  790. ghost of winterfell,

    I agree with that but we are basing this all off preview trailers. If they do have Jon just standing around with a dumb ass look on his face until the battle I will be extremely disappointed but I think these trailers are screwing with us.

  791. Videl:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    Don’t count on it. Jon’s just there to tag along, stand in the background all silent like, then swing his sword a couple times. They abandoned any character development for him.

    Give it a little time. Jon is still recovering from the shock of being dead. Meanwhile it’s nice to see Sansa being something other than the swooning heroine tied to the railroad track in episode after episode of The Perils of Pauline. He’ll recover his bearings soon enough. But you might have to readjust any prior expectations you might have had that Jon character development = Jon becoming a hard-driven revenge machine. Not every war veteran with PTSD comes home wanting to kill everything in sight. I personally love that they chose not to go that route, but opted for a more nuanced Jon.

  793. Wimsey
    The trailer for next week makes me wonder if we will see something similar for Jon with the Wildlings.I wonder if they will proclaim him King Beyond the Wall or something like that.I mean, why miss a parallelism?

    Jon IS King Beyond the Wall in all but name. And Lord Commander, and King in the North (by Robb’s decree) and of the Iron Throne by birth.

    He really is the King; of all of it.

    Whether we will get that proclaimed or merely demonstrated? We shall see…

  794. Connor:
    Am I the only one who wants a Bran and Meera ship?

    Nope, you’re not.

    I used to not like Meera, either in the books or the show, but now I’m in Team Show! Meera all the way…

    Ellie Kendrick’s work has been stellar this season.

    I get a perverse sense of satisfaction seeing many people that for years moaned about Bran’s storyline being “boring” now clamoring for more screen time for Bran…lol

  795. Wimsey: It also was in keeping with Daeny’s egalitarian principles.Clearly being a blood rider is an accomplishment for a Dothraki male.She just made them all blood riders: that is one hell of a way to inspire loyalty.And, of course, when you do it while perched on top of a dragon, it makes the individual Dothraki feel like he’s following someone very powerful, which is important to them.

    The trailer for next week makes me wonder if we will see something similar for Jon with the Wildlings.I wonder if they will proclaim him King Beyond the Wall or something like that.I mean, why miss a parallelism?

    Actually making everybody a blood rider is another way of pissing on their culture. Being a bloodrider is a matter of merit. If a dothriaki trains 10hours a day to be a bloodrider and the other spends the day sleeping it is extremelly unfair to make both bloodriders.
    If you analise the situation porperly it is one of those things that are good to say but make no sense…

  796. Wimsey: Ah, is that who it was?Well, given that he had 3 lines, there is not much by which to judge the character.I wonder if we’ll be seeing any more of them: they seem sort of extraneous at this point.

    While I enjoyed that dinner scene, I also wondered the same thing. What was the point of seeing them at this point in the series? But then, maybe it’s so Sam will be compelled to steal the sword – which could figure in the fight vs. the walkers.

  797. Arthur: I was in tears of excitement when Dany showed up on Drogon to give her speech to the Dothraki that Khal Drogo originally gave to her. What an effective and clever way to bring that season one speech, yet magnify it and make it even more emotional.

    Yeah, that was well-done. I always give them a pass on the absurdity of troops being able to hear the St. Crispin’s Day Speech: I think that Monty Python summarized it best with: “I think it was ‘Blessed are the cheese makers.'”

    (“What’s so bloody special about the cheese makers?”
    “Well, obviously it’s not meant to be taken literally; it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.”)

    Sorry, I digressed. But, yeah, that worked well: one can see why the Dothraki, blood riders each and everyone, will now sail wooden horses to fight men in steel suits. Of course, fighting wights in rotting rags might be another issue: but the Dothraki are just mad enough to do it.

  798. ramses:
    So… I’ll be the first to bring it up. The Frey’s mentioned the Brotherhood raiding their lands, supply lines etc..

    Anyone have renewed hope for

    My hope never entirely died. Let those of little faith scoff. My money’s on Arya Knowing Where the Heart Is.

  799. Pigeon,

    I don’t know if you’re familiar with Hair, but there is a song in it sung by “Margaret Mead” called My Conviction. It reminds me of Mace’s helmet (which is why I referred to “glorious plumage” earlier).

  801. dvc: Actually making everybody a blood rider is another way of pissing on their culture.

    Good: it is a culture that deserves to be soaked in urine, and flammable urine at that. This “respecting culture” crap is inane nonsense that people use to excuse allowing injustices. Ethical people work to undermine such cultures.

  802. Firannion: Give it a little time.Jon is still recovering from the shock of being dead.Meanwhile it’s nice to see Sansa being something other than the swooning heroine tied to the railroad track in episode after episode of The Perils of Pauline.He’ll recover his bearings soon enough.But you might have to readjust any prior expectations you might have had that Jon character development = Jon becoming a hard-driven revenge machine.Not every war veteran with PTSD comes home wanting to kill everything in sight.I personally love that they chose not to go that route, but opted for a more nuanced Jon.

    What jon needs is some meaningfull lines. Last ep he was there, he talked but the interesting things were all said by sansa and davos. Jon shoud either have had sansa’s line about loyalty othe the nertherns or davos about men side with who they think will win. It would show either characther development or that he is the same in some ways.

  803. Connor:
    agostina,

    It’s Robb putting his hand on Talisa’s stomach after she was stabbed during the Red wedding.

    It’s not – the scenes and clothing do not match.

  805. Jon and Sansa weren’t even in this episode and people are whining about them? How is it so horrible that Sansa is doing things and has agency? How does it make any kind of sense that Jon would just immediately bounce back from being dead when GRRM has specifically said that’s not how resurrection works in his story? How can you even assume from a couple seconds of footage that he isn’t going to anything in the next episode? Good lord. The babyish whining and crying when white men aren’t pandered to every single second is astounding. Sorry, bros. You are not automatically the default human.

    That, in addition to the mocking of Sam because he isn’t enough of an alpha male, or whatever makes me think we need to bring back the #masculinitysofragile hashtag and repurpose it for GoT.

  806. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
    Pigeon,

    I don’t know if you’re familiar with Hair, but there is a song in it sung by “Margaret Mead” called My Conviction.It reminds me of Mace’s helmet (which is why I referred to “glorious plumage” earlier).

    Hahaha! Yes!!! ?

  807. Sam,

    I’m glad they were shown in this season. That was some great acting from all of them during that scene!!!

  808. This season has been phenomenal. Loved Sam saying f**k you dad and taking Heartsbane. Gilly standing up for Sam during dinner was awesome, as was Lady Tarly telling Randyll what a douche he is. Benjen was a pleasant surprise. Ellie Kendrick was great this episode as Meera. Arya getting ready to go home (I hope). And Bran’s visions were awesome. Don’t know what Margaery’s up to yet but I don’t believe she truly converted.

  809. Its amazing how after a whole season of Jon being the star, he finally takes a backseat for characters like Sansa and Davos to finally have their moments and people bitch. You really can’t win with people.

  810. dvc: It would show either characther development or that he is the same in some ways.

    Jon’s character has been very thoroughly developed as it is. Moreover, we’ve seen it evolve immensely: and now we’ve got to see the shock of him having been dead. Sansa’s character, on the other hand, remained static after the initial development for several seasons. Sansa lagged far, far behind the other characters in that sense: whereas most of the other characters were much different than the initially developed ones in season 1, she was the same silly uncomprehending girl. Well, now she needs to evolve rapidly to catch up.

    Moreover: this is really much more her fight than Jon’s. She’s a true Stark, he’s a bastard. Jon needs to remain introspective for a couple of more episodes, and then burst out for the real fight against the Walkers. But we need to see some prolonged effect of death on him.

  811. The Bastard:
    As a side note, the show keeps beating us over the head with the fact that Dany will make a better conqueror then ruler.It is Jon Snow who is the person who brings people together the best.I think it will be Tyrion changing sides that will win Jon the final battle.

    I think the wars between men will be over by the time Dany moseys on over to Westeros.

    The real war is between the living and the dead. And make no mistake: the dead are coming!

    And I think Dany and Jon will join forces: the song of ice and fire.

    I was just telling dragonbringer how Dany was the Great Conqueror, the Great Leader, and the Not-So-Much Great Ruler! I think this episode and much of the rest of the season really drove that home. She’s a powerful conqueror, as we see physically embodied by Drogon – massive fucking Drogon! She’s a powerful leader in the way her impassioned speeches move the Dothraki and Unsullied and former slaves. But, as Daario says so perfectly in this episode, as if coming straight from GRRM himself, she is a conqueror, not a ruler.

    Daario: You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace.
    Khaleesi: What was I made for?
    Daario: You’re a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn.

    Yer a wizard, Harry!

  812. Wimsey,

    How can making the better warriors bloodriders be a flaw in their culture? It is a possition achieved by merit! If you want to creticise someone it must be the one who thinks she should rule because of her blood. That is what is wrong!
    The dothriaki have several flaws in their culture but this isn t one lol… Besides a leader has to respect the culture of her people in some way. Danny lack of respect is what cost her mereen…

  813. agostina,

    Welcome to the Wall!!! 🙂

    I don’t think when Talisa was stabbed, they made such a huge gash in her.

    Ginevra,

    Thanks for the youtube!!!

    Arthur: to give her speech to the Dothraki that Khal Drogo originally gave to her.

    I thought it must’ve just been me that I thought much of it was what Drogo had said way back when.

  817. Thronetender:
    I’m frightened for Sam. Randyll was already going to kill him just because Sam was Sam. Now that he’s taken the treasured family sword, won’t Randyll send a search and destroy party after him?Jeez, that dinner was worse for Sam than I thought it would be. And Dickon was kind of a dick, too. Although, if he had shown Sam any mercy, the old man would have been all in his face, too, for showing mercy to a weakling or something stupid like that.And here I thought Randyll was going to be marching into KL, but I guess not.

    He might come for him, yes, but part of me thinks Randyll might respect the balls it took to steal the family sword and runaway with Gilly and Baby Sam, damning all consequences. Sam has killed the boy in that moment – at least for me. Randyll might not see it that way.

  818. Sam: What was the point of seeing them at this point in the series? But then, maybe it’s so Sam will be compelled to steal the sword – which could figure in the fight vs. the walkers.

    Yeah, I cannot think that he is going to turn around and go north. I do not buy into the idea that he’s going to learn how to forge Valyrian steel. This is not Tolkien: the “answer” is not some Sammath Naur analog. The beginning of the answer came last week and was reiterated this week: why the Walkers exist. I am not sure what the answer will be, but now that we know that: 1) the humans are the real “baddies” and, 2) the Cane Toads ran amok. So… what do the Cane Toads want, and how many types of weasels were introduced to kill them?

  819. DROGON!!!

    Extremely good episode; not as great for me as the last two, but still quite awesome. I had anticipated the Tarlys a lot, and Papa Tarly was quite awesome, but I felt a bit let down that the entire purpose of the Tarly interlude seemed to be for Sam to get the Valyrian steel sword and take off. Still Gilly looked awesome, baby Sam was mega cute and Sam did the right thing.
    The first time in a loooong while, I LOVED Arya and her story. Very invested in her now and eager to see what she does.
    The KL story surprised me by how plot-free and simple it was. But I liked it overall. I am counting the minutes till HS dies. I hate him far more than Cersei – which is astonishing for me!! 😀
    Benjen’s story also surprised me – but good. Bran’s visions were very interesting with so much focus on AERYS. And showing Lyanna’s bed of blood, and also Daenerys with newborn dragons.
    Finally Daenerys with Drogon! Great visual; I was slightly disappointed because I wanted to learn a bit more about why Drogon was MIA for so long. But anyway, there he was, at last. Daenerys won over EVERY Dothraki by making them ALL her bloodriders: again her recurring theme of egalite. And now of course, they will follow her wherever she goes. Blood of my blood, indeed!

  821. dvc: How can making the better warriors bloodriders be a flaw in their culture? It is a possition achieved by merit!

    Gee, I don’t know: because their definition of “merit” involves killing and enslaving people?

    Decent people do not respect bad cultures. Decent people work to destroy them.

  822. agostina:
    Did Bran’s vision give us a first glimpse at “promise me”? Because I don’t remember seeing these images before. Could they be from previous episodes (like Talisa after being stabbed or something like that?)

    http://imgur.com/xVNhjUV

    http://imgur.com/3oK2cWV

    BTW: first time commenting here, I just needed other opinions

    I haven’t seen it before either. It looks like the woman was stabbed in the belly. So, if it’s Lyanna, then did someone stab her??? Or could it be Talisa? However, it didn’t look like the woman was pregnant.

  823. You heard it here first (MASSIVE spoiler IF true):

    The Waif is Syrio Forel. He has continued to train Arya AND put himself in a position to demand that he be the one to “kill” her. Evidence?: There’s a head tilt by The Waif during the training sequence in “The Door” that is identical to a mannerism of Arya’s former Dancing Master. That’s all.

  824. That might’ve been the most perfect episode TITLE they could’ve come up with.

    Almost every single scene had something to do with “family”

    Coldhands/Benjen is obvious, and the big one
    Arya found a kindred spirit in Lady Crane
    Sam’s family, obviously
    bringing back Edmure as the connection to the Blackfish
    Tommen and Margery
    Mace Tyrell trying to save his children
    Jaime and Cersei planning to reclaim their family’s honor

    and, of course,

    Dany reconnecting with Drogon and making the entire Dothraki people her blood riders, who of course are referred to as “Blood of my blood”

    They’ve done well with some other themes/titles this season, but this might be the best.

  825. Giocrypt: About time somebody said it, no wonder he was disowned he is worst at hornhill than he was at the wall. He just sits there and takes it like the load he is, i really hate his character if Westeros ends up being saved thanks to this waste of space may be they all deserve to serve the Nights King.

    I don’t remember if it made it to the show, but the talk with Maester Aemon about the Night’s Watch needing all sorts is incredibly true. Sam isn’t a fighter, though he’s fought more than most of these high noble Lords, but the world needs more than fighters. It needs thinkers and learners and speakers and poets and actors and clam-sellers and smiths and assassins and spies and cooks and all to survive and thrive. Sam is not useless; he is intelligent and thoughtful and one helluva friend; he makes his mother and sister and Gilly and Jon very happy; and, if he ever gets there, he will make one hell of a Maester.

    How can people want a life so boring that only the metrosexually aggressive count? Surely there is more worth in the world than that.

  826. Kay: I wanted to learn a bit more about why Drogon was MIA for so long. But anyway, there he was, at last.

    For the same reason your cat disappears for some length of time and then turns up as if nothing ever happened.

  827. Oh wow, I would never have guessed people dislike Sam and Gilly’s storyline so much.

    Randyll Tarly was amazing tbh.

  828. Nymeria Warrior Queen: When he said to Bran, “the last time I saw you…” I squealed, jumped up off the couch, landed back on it, started hitting the couch with my fists and going “wooo-hooo” so loudly, the cat ran into the other room, and the neighbors probably thought I was watching a sporting event

    Yeah, that bit did it for me as well, disturbing the neighbors : ) Been waiting soooo long to find out what happened to Uncle Benjen.

  829. Incidentally, we did once again see (and hear) something that will be important:
    “He killed a White Walker”
    *scoffing laugh* “There’s no such thing!”

    I do wonder what it will take for people to believe that White Walkers are there. Convincing Northerners that they are back will be tough because they think that the Walkers are long extinct: but convincing people that something that they thought was extinct is still extant is much easier than convincing people that a fairy tale is real.

  830. aabe:
    My favorite moment from this episode was Arya saying that her name was “Mercy”. Like from the books. It was an apt name too, because she showed mercy to Lady Crane. Hope that Arya kills waif and runs away with the traveling company.

    That was an awesome moment! As soon as she said “Mercy,” I thought, she’s not going to go through with it – although I had my doubts when it took Arya so long to realize that for herself. And I loved Needle!!!!!

    The one thing I’m sad about, which I told Ice Spider, is that I really wanted Arya to take away the secret of the faces and making the faces before she left the HoBaW. Else, what was the point of all that time in Braavos? However, as someone mentioned upthread, next week is when Arya makes a plan. I hope that plan includes at least stealing some faces if not stealing the secret for making faces, before leaving Braavos.

    In the offseason, I thought we knew that we’d have Essie Davis for four episodes, right? We’ve only had two so far, I think, so do we have two more to come?

  831. Do you think that the Waif is able to change her face? Aarya’s ready for the Waif, but maybe someone else will appear. I’m not feeling confident that Aarya will survive this.

  832. I’m probably wrong because I’ve been avoiding serious spoilers about the BoB (can’t avoid knowing that much) but I’ve been wondering what is LF doing w his Vale army? What if he takes them to River Rin to break the siege? That would be awesome sauce. And I’m sure it would make him friendly w Sansa and company again.

    And just my two cents: I think Jon will have plenty of lines. But it’s natural for him to take a sort of back seat to his sister. That’s how he was raised. While there is a Stark around he won’t try to out Stark her. I keep feeling those who hate Sansas role here can’t deal w having a strong female protagonist outshine the male. It’s a different dynamic than, say, Robb and his mom, but we still have to wait and see how it plays out. Also don’t know about him being King of the North. He isn’t a Stark. He may have bigger things to do.

    And I don’t think Dany will be the antagonist / Jons enemy. I see the point that she’s invading w a foreign army. I really do. But they need the dragons to fight the WW. I’ve always thought that her dragons would make her a savior. And I like her, so I think that’s a matter of opinion. Could be my vagina and my feminism that makes me stick up for the female characters.

  833. Wimsey: Yeah, I cannot think that he is going to turn around and go north.I do not buy into the idea that he’s going to learn how to forge Valyrian steel. This is not Tolkien: the “answer” is not some Sammath Naur analog.The beginning of the answer came last week and was reiterated this week: why the Walkers exist.I am not sure what the answer will be, but now that we know that: 1) the humans are the real “baddies” and, 2)the Cane Toads ran amok.So… what do the Cane Toads want, and how many types of weasels were introduced to kill them?

    I dunno how it’s going to shake out either, but I think the whole point of that scene that probably will never happen in the books was for Sam to get his hands on Heartsbane; I think that was the book spoiler, that somehow Sam winds up with it for…reasons (presumably plot reasons)

  834. Ginevra,

    Given the story of the season, I wonder if Arya somehow is going to win over Jacquen. The Waif is a lost cause, but Sexy Jesus obviously likes Arya. If Jon’s going to have Wildlings behind him and Daeny is going to have Dothraki behind her, it would be a nice parallelism is Arya gets some Faceless Men behind her.

    However, I do not know how that might happen: and one would think that a mechanism would have been introduced by now. (Of course, it might have been, and I simply have overlooked it.)

  835. Wimsey:
    By the way, was that the same actor playing Benjen?He had on a bit of prosthetics to make him look half-dead, so I couldn’t tell if it was the prosthetics making the same guy look different or if they were also being used to make a different guy look the same.

    (They also distorted his voice slightly: again, they would do that that to make him sound less than alive, but it also means I couldn’t tell if it matched the original voice; also, I don’t remember the original voice!)

    Yes, Ice Spider and I recognized his eyes in that very first scene! Definitely the same one.

  836. dvc,

    Well that’s why I keep saying they are not giving dany much to work with. .

    They just make her all about giving speeches and big scenes ..

    I don’t think they are intending to make dany as villain in the show but they think making her monotonous icy queen who gives big speeches as cool and badass.

    This is just what happens with Jon or tyrion or Jamie or cersei ..the show tend to focus on one thing more and keep highlighting it ..

    But it seems I should not complain about dany but only others gets to complain about how making their favorite only good with swords and being sidelined

  837. Marlana: If Helen of Troy had enough beauty to launch a thousand ships,
    I think Dany has at least a kiloHelen of beauty to launch her thousand ships.

    Are Stannis’s ships still docked near The Wall?

  838. Demon Monkey: I’m probably wrong because I’ve been avoiding serious spoilers about the BoB (can’t avoid knowing that much) but I’ve been wondering what is LF doing w his Vale army?

    He probably is waiting in the wings, hoping to “save the day.” I suspect that a big story point will be Sansa having so suck it up and appeal to Baelish for support. Her need of allies will become more important than her pride: or at least it should.

    At any rate, they certainly have hung the “cavalry to appear in the nick of time” gun on the wall with Baelish, as well as the means to get it. (I just hope that Baelish does not try a St. Crispin’s day thing: it would just be wrong….)

  839. mariamb: Arya with needle lying in wait for for the Waif.

    Hmmm. And the last we see is her blowing out her candle, trying to stay awake, not knowing when the Waif is likely to come for her. Maybe she drifts off… and has a wolf dream? I truly wouldn’t mind that being the opening scene of the next episode.

  840. Firannion,

    There was also a Bran vision of Dany reborn out of Khal Drogos pyre with Drogon on her shoulder.
    Benjen lighting that fireball suggested he has a bit of power against the wights, also knowing Brans future beyond the wall foretells this.

  841. Dee: Jamie will die in the arms of the woman he loves
    Brienne
    Ha

    Don’t know if you were joking or not, sweetie, but if you aren’t I gotta disagree with you. I think Cersei is back in his blood stronger than ever, and curiously, SHE’S stronger than ever. Who would have ever thought that she would tell him to go ahead and leave her, even though the trial is coming up? She’s ultra-Cersei now, and he loves it. Plus, she’s talking sweetly and super loving to him, everything he could ever want. To him, especially now, no one can match her in looks or lineage. He may admire Brienne, but he’s never going to stop loving Cersei.

    BTW, did anyone catch the fact that Cersei said “take back that little castle (Riverrun) it’s OURS.” Those two really do intend to take all of Westeros as their own, and I’m assuming that includes the North, as well. This is getting more and more interesting

  842. Ginevra: Yes, Ice Spider and I recognized his eyes in that very first scene! Definitely the same one.

    Yeah, I watched it a second time, and it was more obvious. As I noted, the prosthetics threw me: he both did and did not look like the original actor because of them. And with his voice purposefully distorted, that did not sound right, either.

    But in a lot of ways, it was like taking a similar looking person and trying to make him look like Benjen: because they were taking the original actor and trying to make him look a little different!

    (On a side note: isn’t it funny how much more obvious some things are on a second viewing?)

  843. Wimsey:
    Incidentally, we did once again see (and hear) something that will be important:
    “He killed a White Walker”
    *scoffing laugh* “There’s no such thing!”

    I do wonder what it will take for people to believe that White Walkers are there.Convincing Northerners that they are back will be tough because they think that the Walkers are long extinct: but convincing people that something that they thought was extinct is still extant is much easier than convincing people that a fairy tale is real.

    Seeing is believing I guess?

    You could perhaps convince a Northerner that truly believes in the Old Gods that the Walkers are back without “proof”, but many “Sweet Summer Children” won’t believe until a Walker stares at them in the face…

  844. Steel_Wind,

    The response from the gathered Dothraki horde sounded like 15 guys on a soundstage, not a throng of 1000s screaming loyalty and death to her enemies.

    Yeah, I had that sense as well.

    As if they spent so much budget on Drogon that they had nothing left over for pumping up the crowd noise.

  845. The shot of someone’s feet in the episode 7 promo appears to be limping….the Hound broke his leg after he fell.

    THE HOUND RETURNS NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!

  846. Firannion: Maybe she drifts off… and has a wolf dream? I truly wouldn’t mind that being the opening scene of the next episode.

    Maybe. However, I would have thought that they would have used her blindness to introduce that.

    Still, like LSH, people will probably be hoping that it turns up in the closing credits of the final episode if it does not happen before then! 😀

  847. Firannion,

    It’d be fine if there was time. There’s too few episodes left to have Jon moping in the background for a considerable amount of time.
    Apart from deciding to leave the Night’s Watch (for a time being), he hasn’t changed at all since the beginning of the story. He’s still the same decent brooding guy. Just a lot more beaten now. No one expected him to become Lord Stoneheart, but there was no need to go to the other extreme and turn him into that passive wimp (they could do well by making him more greyish btw). Especially given that they’re completely neglecting to touch upon his PTSD unlike what they’re doing with Sansa. It’s like he never actually died. They could have achieved the same result by having him stabbed but pull through without the whole death and resurrection plot development.

  848. I’ll repeat what I thought after the last episode re Jon and his post-rez persona.

    Had Jon been reborn and ready to take on the world, either as a great good guy leader or a revenge-filled badass, it would have been a cliche. That’s the easy way. GoT rarely takes the easy (or short) way with character development for the main stars.

    I think it makes perfect sense for him to be in a total funk, and lost heart. He was killed by the people he led. He failed. His reaction is a very human reaction. My guess is he’ll continue to be introspective for one more episode.

    Then something important will happen that will snap him out of it in Ep8. He’ll regain confidence – perhaps slowly but surely – and by Ep. 9 will be back taking control. In Ep. 10, he becomes the leader that a (hopefully) wins back and unites the North in advance of the Season 7 – which I expect will focus on the advancing Night’s King etc. and the battle for the Iron Throne.

    I like Sansa’s storyline too. She started as a spiteful little girl. Then a cowed and frightened teenager, held prisoner by her enemies. Then a pawn of LF. Then a terrified victim of Ramsay. Now, she’s coming into her own as a woman and taking control of her own destiny. This journey will inform her actions moving forward.

    Same with Jon. Sure it would’ve been fun to see Jon rise again as an instant badass, but I prefer characters that have more than a one-note personality. A little insecurity, depression and realizations that one doesn’t have all the answers is good for a future leader.

    I also think it makes more sense for Sansa to write the notes to the lords. Can you imagine the amount of explaining Jon would have to do if he wrote them?

    “Yo, Manderleys, I was LC of the NW, but they killed me. Oops! But hey, I’m now free from my vows. I know I’m only Ned Stark’s bastard, but will you follow me as I try to take back Winterfell from the Warden of the North? You know, that Ramsay-former-bastard who just killed his dad? Thanks in advance! Jon.

    PS. did I mention you’ll be fighting alongside the wildlings that I let through the wall? But they’re cool. You’ll like them.

    Now if Sansa writes, she can say:

    You fought loyally for my father, your liege. My home was taken and I was forced to marry a man who is a monster. He will destroy everything we love. Will you help me, and together we’ll take back the North?

  849. People complained about not getting strong female characters well now they got it and now people are upset. These are the consequences of constant complaining about equality there is no equality wether it’s man or woman one will always get the better of it. The fairy tale you have in your head is impossible.

  850. dvc: Does anybody really want to see danny conquering westeros? Who is she goi to conquer it from? Acording to spoilers almost all bad guys will die. Does anybody believe the lanisters will be in power when danny arrives?

    Dany is necessary to save Westeros from the White Walkers, but after that…

    We are told — and the showrunners repeat in the Behind the Episode bit to Episode 6 that Dany cannot have children and the Dragons are her children…

    Can we look that straight in the eye for a moment. If Dany truly cannot children, then Dany is not a Queen. A Queen is a woman who is in the business of having children. When you aren’t in the business of getting heirs, you aren’t in the business of being a royal. Your dynasty ends with you. And when your subjects know that, unless you otherwise have a clear, lawful heir, you have no power, because you have no heir.

    Because then, you are just one knife blade – or cup of poison – away.

    And that is Dany’s problem. She is the only thing which unites and guides her army of Second Sons, Unsullied. Dothraki, and the Dragons. She and she alone holds their allegiance. Kill her, it all melts away.

    And if your two closest advisors see the Westeros they love about to be overcome by Dothraki, who are rapists and pillagers all — why are they serving her again? To restore the Targaryens or to have power and maybe get Casterly Rock (or become Hand?).

    To see Westeros be ravaged by the Dothraki? Really? REALLY?

    Isn’t the choice this would present to Varys and Tyrion rather obvious if you think it through? If Jon will do, will unite the Seven Kingdoms, restore the Targ line, be capable of having children, beinging peace AND will find Tyrion a spot as his Hand — or in Casterly Rock?

    Isn’t the obvious choice that Tyrion and Varys have to make after the Army of the Dead is defeated to kill Daenerys, if she cannot be brought to heel and made to marry Jon? One knife sends the Dothraki divided and into disunited bickering; it leave the others to their fate, while permitting Tyrion to scoop the dragons for himself maybe, if possible?

    Isn’t that where this “Daenerys the Conqueror” tale is going? To a cup of poisoned wine handed to her by her loyal servant?

    Could Varys or Tyrion do such a thing? Any doubters? Really?

  851. George: You could perhaps convince a Northerner that truly believes in the Old Gods that the Walkers are back without “proof”, but many “Sweet Summer Children” won’t believe until a Walker stares at them in the face…

    Given Ned’s rejection of the idea in Season 1, I doubt that you even could do that. After all, the Wall has been sending out claims of this for years now, and yet nobody in the North accepts it.

    However: I think that it will take less proof to convince the Northerners. That is, once they see wights (which they will see before White Walkers), they will go: “Holy crap, the old stories actually are not completely made up!!!!” Southerners, on the other hand, will attribute it to trickery or blood magic or something else first.

    Look at it this way: if Elvis really did return, members of the Elvis cult would probably be shocked but they would come to accept it much faster than everyone else. (“What? Elvis really did exist??? Oi, vey!”)

  852. This Season Six of “Game Of Thrones” has been really bad for my health, because every goddamn episode leaves me shaking like a fucking leaf, and I don’t mean the Children Of The Forest…

    This episode, they didn’t even wait ’till the end, it began right at the start…and here comes Benjen Stark aka Coldhands aka I almost shit my pants!!! Just another great episode all around! I’m soo proud of Sam, and Gilly is beautiful…she looks great in that Westeros haute-couture dress!!!LOL The High Sparow is not as meek or as self assured as he let on, but every bit a masterful politician and manipulator as the High Lords and Ladies…

    And seeing a Targaryen ridging a dragon, this time Dany looking like the Targaryen conquerors of old, this time with Drogon as the Queen she is meant to be, not fleeing, brings joy to my heart! Fire And Blood indeed! Now lets hope that [ spoiler ] Rhaegal and Viserion also find their riders!!!!! I can’t wait for that moment, when three Targaryens come from the sky on their dragons and land at King’s Landing!!! [ / spoiler]

    PS Nice to see you Edmure…been gone a long time dude…and marriage does not agree with you! Hopefully we get to see the Blackfish in action soon enough!

    PPS Oh yeah…almost forgot…fuck you Walder Frey!

  853. The Bastard: I think it will be Tyrion changing sides that will win Jon the final battle.

    Yes, I’ve been wondering what will be the catalytic event or series of events that gets Tyrion (and possibly Varys as well) to abandon the Dany bandwagon.

  854. Connor:
    agostina,

    It’s Robb putting his hand on Talisa’s stomach after she was stabbed during the Red wedding.

    Those are the armored bracers that young Ned was wearing at the Tower of Joy, not Robb’s sleeves from the Red Wedding.

  856. Wimsey,

    I don’t think so. I think next episode is Arya’s plan, I’m curious on what it is, then in episode 8, the waif finds her and then a chase ensues, and then Arya kills the waif. And then off to Westoros!

    REUNITE WITH JON FOR FUCK SAKES!!!!

  857. Steel_Wind: A Queen is a woman who is in the business of having children.

    I have a seance message from Queen Elisabeth I for you…..

    Seriously, you are confusing a royal consort queen (like Cersei) with the hereditary queen (like Daeny).

  859. Damn! Comments have exploded since checked a couple of hours ago. I’ve been watching the episode again since. I do find it very solid. I absolutely hate looking at the HS’s smug face so the end of that scene eats at me though.
    I just got to the point again when Lady Crane tells ‘Mercy’ that she has very expressive eyes. That’s what I’ve noticed and mentioned since the very beginning about Maisie. In my opinion that’s what made her so good so young. She’s been able to show true feeling in that way that many can’t. When she’s acting an emotion it’s not just her tone, you see it.

  860. LyannaBanna: Are Stannis’s ships still docked near The Wall?

    Apparently, they are still docked at Eastwatch by the Sea, docked there by Jon after the Hardhome rescue. Unless, of course, the Iron Bank seized them once they heard about Stannis’s defeat. Joking about the Iron Bank. I really thought they were going to play a bigger part in the politics, but we haven’t seen even a practice pistol taped to the wall to that effect. The last we saw the IB, Tycho was enduring Mace Tyrell singing in the street.

  861. Ginevra,

    I agree with most of what you say ..

    Dany’s destiny is to unite people and conqueror not spend everyday work at the throne room .

    But what I agree with most people is that she is not terrible ruler just because she is meant to be conqueror ..if she ended up ruling she will be doing just fine with still some learning abkuaboutt history and other stuffs ..

  862. Marlana: If Helen of Troy had enough beauty to launch a thousand ships,
    I think Dany has at least a kiloHelen of beauty to launch her thousand ships.

    Is that from Scott Westerfeld’s the Uglies series? That’s the only place I remember mega-Helens from, but he might have borrowed that phrase.

  863. Wimsey,

    It could go either way, even though it seems likely he may come to save the day as Jons forces may be on the back foot, unfortunately knowing his cunningness and the fact that Sansa was having none of his state of play in the north, Littlefinger may well band up with Ramsey to get Winterfell as Cersie will name him warden of the North regardless, he may even attempt to take Sansa to Kings Landing etc…just speculating lol

  864. Videl:
    Firannion,

    They could have achieved the same result by having him stabbed but pull through without the whole death and resurrection plot development.

    That wouldn’t have permitted him to declare himself free of his vows.

    “Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.”

    With his death and resurrection done the way it was absolutely no one questions that he has fulfilled his vows. A loophole to be sure, but really the only questionable part was him still being able to carry out the executions as Lord Commander considering a) he had died thereby vacating his position and b) a new LC had been named. (shrug)

  865. Connor,
    But what would be the parallelism between Arya and the other protagonists? We see the rest of them trying to create / maintain / understand fragile alliances among strange bedfellows. (Even Bran’s visions pertain to this.) Arya needs to do something like this, too: or she’s just doing things!

    Firannion: Yes, I’ve been wondering what will be the catalytic event or series of events that gets Tyrion (and possibly Varys as well) to abandon the Dany bandwagon.

    Why would they?

  866. Sansa can have the speeches to the Northmen, but they should have Jon work with something too. Show us how he’s dealing after what had happened to him. Have him try to understand why he was brought back and look for purpose on his own. Have him interact with Melisandre, who’s all but forgotten at this point. It feels like he’s a plot device more than a character now.

  867. Ginevra: I think the wars between men will be over by the time Dany moseys on over to Westeros.

    And I think Dany and Jon will join forces:the song of ice and fire.

    Anyone who is hoping for more wars between men and Daeny to be Mad Queen is going to be dissapointed. That being said not sure if this fits the song of ice and fire. What I see is ice/fire and fire. This way we can turn a lot of other things to it walkers and dragons etc.

  868. George,

    I don’t think it’s ever been a question Southerners would be very difficult to convince. There has been a lot of debate, though, whether the Northerners would put any stock in word of the WW’s return. I’ve always been in the camp not every single Northern Lord will summarily dismiss the news.

    I found it quite interesting both Michael McElhatton and Iwan Rheon said in an interview (it was posted in an article here, although I can’t recall which one) said they thought both their characters were aware of what was happening north of the Wall. Of course, just because the actors think that isn’t proof, but we’ll have proof one way, or another soon enough.

  869. Daenerys made it very clear tonight that she’s not sticking around Slaver’s Bay longer than she needs to. Her focus is back on Westeros.

  870. loolaa: the fact that Sansa was having none of his state of play in the north

    Ah, but if Sansa had accepted Baelish’s offer to quickly, then much of the plot-tension would be gone. She refused it for understandable reasons. Still, Sansa almost certainly is going to need that army in the end. So, we now have some idea of the personal cost that it will be for Sansa to reverse herself and accept Baelish’s aid. And that’s probably the heart of the story this year: the personal cost of alliances.

    And on that note, I think that you just gave me the answer to how Arya is going to contribute to the story without making any alliance with the Faceless men: her part of the tale will be the cost of breaking alliance.

  871. Arya was well done, I like how they merged WoW pre-release Mercy chapter with a TV show theme of her giving the gift of “Mercy” instead of the gift of death.

    An important turning point for her given where she was at earlier, I’m going home to my family was a big thing too. here’s hoping for Wolf Dreams

    Have to go back over the Mad King in Brans vision now

    In the Preview for next week, anyone know who the Clenched Fist Banner belongs to?

  872. Wimsey,

    But, yeah, that worked well: one can see why the Dothraki, blood riders each and everyone, will now sail wooden horses to fight men in steel suits. Of course, fighting wights in rotting rags might be another issue: but the Dothraki are just mad enough to do it.

    It is all adding up to a song of ice and fire…

    Jon being Ice and Dany being fire.

    In the east, Dany with her Dragons is being looked at as some kind of savior/goddess.

    While in the north Jon is gathering his own pack of loyalists that also view him to be some kind of savior/god.

    Soon, Dany will land in Dorne and head north conquering all that she comes across and eventually she will meet up with Jon, unite and save Westeros from the Night’s King.

    I am sure there will be complex twists and turns and reveals along the way but that is the basic direction this show seems to be heading towards.

    I’m liking it!!!

  873. Ice Spider:
    Ginevra,

    Im off for rewatch… so glad no early rising tomorrow.. get to stay up late and enjoy the show again!! Thanks again for great convo!!

    I doubt I’ll rewatch tonight. I’m hoping to catch up on comments someday soon.

  874. The Molehill that Rides: With his death and resurrection done the way it was absolutely no one questions that he has fulfilled his vows.

    Well, that’s not entirely true. For one thing, most people are going to question the “I died” part of the story. 😉

  876. Renly’s Ghost: I do think the show is setting up a Dany/Jon/Tyrion ruling triad: Dany will be the conquering power base (President), Tyrion will be the actual ruling body (Congress) and Jon will be the heart and consciousness (Supreme Court).

    Ha! 😀 If this was a predictable show, I would say that something very similar would happen. I’m not sure, though! One thing I’m fairly sure of is: no more monarchy at the end in Westeros and no more slavery in Essos. And most likely, the principals will just die/fade away to live their lives in peace and obscurity. I hope Tyrion ends up happy.

  877. Dee: Dany and euron greyjoy
    She needs a thousand ships !

    Yeah, they hammered that one home. Will she turn Yara and Theon away if they only show up with 999? Come to think of it, how are Dany and Yara likely to get on together? I have a feeling that they’d end up having a “This town ain’t big enough for the both of us” showdown. Dany’s a queen bee: advances other women only as long as she doesn’t see them as competitors.

    And of course one must figure out where the association with Helen of Troy (“the face that launched 1,000 ships”) fits in here. I always thought that Lyanna was supposed to be the Helen of this saga.

  879. Casso: Those are the armored bracers that young Ned was wearing at the Tower of Joy, not Robb’s sleeves from the Red Wedding.

    Yes, I don’t think those are Robb’s hands.

  880. Steel_Wind,

    I always thought that Coldhands being Benjen felt right storywise as well, and was disappointed that GRMM’s “no” seemed to settle the question (unless “no” meant a grumpy “no, i’m not telling you” or “no, stop asking me” … but that seems rather unlikely). Now it seems like the show has combined the two characters, which I have mixed feelings about. I love seeing Uncle Benjen back (and I recognised the actor immediately – so glad they didn’t need to recast) and it makes sense to not have yet another character introduced but now I’m confused about exactly what they’re doing with him. Not to mention what happens to him in the books. Oh well, I guess we’ll see. I did gasp a bit when he uncovered his face and it was disfigured. He’s clearly had a rough time of it since Season 1!

    Overall, as many have said, this wasn’t as strong as the last few episodes. Maybe anything would have been a let down after last week but it felt very clunky at times. Surprisingly, I liked Sam’s visit to Horn Hill and Arya’s interaction with the actors the best. The structure of the episode also wasn’t great, imo. Frankly I was bored by the ending – how many times now have we ended an episode with Dany giving a big speech or doing something dramatic and everyone thinking she’s awesome? Meh.

  881. loolaa,

    My suspicion is that the book and show will converge on this point. After all, in the book

    Sansa is still at the Vale during all of this. However, if she goes north with the Vale army, then it could be the same in the end.

    And, of course, LF can use the same pretext that he does on the show: he’s going up to clean up whoever survives between the Boltons and the Baratheons. (He will need to plant some new proof of Bolton perfidy: but that should not be too difficult.)

  882. Ghosts Lunch: In the Preview for next week, anyone know who the Clenched Fist Banner belongs to?

    House Glover? It’s supposed to be a silver fist on Scarlett and the one shown was white on orangeish but my best guess is House Glover of Deepwood Motte. Fits with some of Davos’ book travels too, I think.

  884. George: but many “Sweet Summer Children” won’t believe until a Walker stares at them in the face…

    And wouldn’t you just love one to say Hi to both Randyll and Dickon Tarly? Really, that old man scared me – intense doesn’t begin to describe this old tyrant. It’s amazing Sam survived him in any way – and damn I’m glad Sam took that sword off the wall. Afraid for what will happen to him, but proud that he took it.

  885. Brans scene 1 vision in slow motion is quite something, didn’t just give us our ever first glimpse but actually just showed Jaimie slaying the Mad King!

  886. Wimsey: Well, that’s not entirely true. For one thing, most people are going to question the “I died” part of the story.?

    Just to be consistent, an Iron Islands baptism will also get you out of the Night’s Watch.

  887. aabe: House Glover of Deepwood Motte.

    Yeah, somehow I am suspecting that Sansa is not going to get the answers she wants from the Glovers!

    The Mormants are a different story, however.

    Firannion: I have a feeling that they’d end up having a “This town ain’t big enough for the both of us” showdown. Dany’s a queen bee: advances other women only as long as she doesn’t see them as competitors.

    Actually, Daeny comes across quite as the mentor figure. “Queen Bees” tend to be a bit more hierarchical and classist in their ways of thinking: and for that type of society, Daeny is about as close as you would get to a flaming populist!

    And, let’s face it: the two have a bit in common in terms of how they have been pushed out of power. And both have pet Eunuchs, too. (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself: I’m a bad person….)

  888. Wimsey,

    Except that she’s using that same culture (of killing and pillaging) for her own gain. The Dothraki follows the strongest. As long as Dany stays on her “I’ll take what is mine with fire and blood” path, the horde will follow her. Any sign of negotiating and diplomacy will be seen as weakness by them.

    Man, I cannot wait to see the look on Tyrion’s face when Dany rides into Meeren with thousands of Dothraki blood riders.

  889. aabe: They are at Volantis (the Long Bridge of Volantis is visible in the preview).

    I’m bouncing up and down over the return of the Long Bridge, whose introduction was my most favorite bit of special effects in the entire series. Beautiful, beautiful work.

  890. The Molehill that Rides: Just to be consistent, an Iron Islands baptism will also get you out of the Night’s Watch.

    heh, possibly! But, then, most of the Westerosi would say: “Put away the deserter beheading sword! Then fetch my pirate beheading sword!”

  891. When Arya said that the girl that plays Sansa wants Lady Crane dead, I thought she was just lying to make it seem she was the one who poisoned the drink.

    But could it be that she knew that girl actually was the one to request the murder to the Faceless Men? She seemed pretty jealous after all.

  892. BTW, I scoffed at earlier theories about Meera and Bran, but after watching Meera fondly stroking Bran’s face, I might be on board that ship.

  893. Ghosts Lunch:
    Brans scene 1 vision in slow motion is quite something, didn’t just give us our ever first glimpse but actually just showed Jaimie slaying the Mad King!

    What I found interesting about this and all the wildfire visions is what if

    and maybe this is part of the Bran drove the Mad King mad fan theory

    the Mad King was actually talking about the White Walkers when he was ranting about “burn them all!”?

  894. In all honesty Kit works good in actions scenes. Emilia works good in speeches and dramatic moments. I don’t see anything wrong with it. Does anyone else think they did this Jon quiet, peaceful, not wanting to fight kind of personality on purpose. Not only to show different way to cope with resurrection but then one moment might change that and he’ll go nuts in the battle.

    Wimsey:
    Ginevra,

    If Jon’s going to have Wildlings behind him and Daeny is going to have Dothraki behind her, it would be a nice parallelism is Arya gets some Faceless Men behind her.

    Still it’s interesting. Dothraki will follow Daeny to death and clearly follows her strength. As you can see from the promo Tormund might need to convince them to fight so wildlings and their loyalty is not that high towards Jon. Difference there.

  895. Vincent Stark:
    When Arya said that the girl that plays Sansa wants Lady Crane dead, I thought she was just lying to make it seem she was the one who poisoned the drink.
    But could it be that she knew that girl actually was the one to request the murder to the Faceless Men? She seemed pretty jealous after all.

    I initially thought Arya was guessing and would find out that it was actually Cersei’s “hit” on anyone portraying her in an unfavorable light (not actually bothering to check that this actress was portraying her favorably). She certainly wouldn’t have done Cersei’s bidding but SHOULDN’T be killing a seemingly “decent” person just because the FM got paid and that’s the route they went.

  896. Shadow Shifter: Except that she’s using that same culture (of killing and pillaging) for her own gain.

    Ah, but what did Daeny leave out? There was no promise of raping or enslaving. It was a promise to fight.

    And Daeny is not using fighting for “gain.” Remember, in this society, it is a moral obligation for someone like Daeny to raise armies and fight for her seat. It is exactly the same as what Sansa is doing right now, and what Yara probably is going to try to do. These are very Darwinian morals: a good person does everything he/she can for the good of his/her house, with an eye towards leaving the House strong long after he/she has been forgotten.

    This goes back to the old “Daeny is an entitled brat for thinking she deserves the throne” fallacy. Nope. Daeny or anyone in her position would be acting like an entitled brat in the eyes of that society if they decided that they would rather do something else. Daeny or anyone else in her position would be a honorless coward in the eyes of that society if he/she shied away from doing it. If you are someone with a family name, then it is your duty and obligation to do what she is doing.

    And, of course, that means killing some people along the way. But: she never said anything about raping or enslaving.

  897. Geralt of Rivia: As you can see from the promo Tormund might need to convince them to fight so wildlings and their loyalty is not that high towards Jon. Difference there.

    It will be different if the Wildlings do not fight for Jon in the end. If they do, then the parallelism remains. And the probable costs will be the same: Jon is going to have to make Northerners and Wildlings not kill each other in the end, and Daeny is going to have to make Dothraki and other Essosi not kill each other in the end. Frankly, I would not envy either of them either task.

  898. Wimsey:
    Thronedorne,
    But you are right: the Walkers are not “evil.” Just as in our world, there really isn’t such a thing as “evil” in Martin’s stories: indeed, most of the worst things that people in both reality and Martin’s stories do is in the name of “good.”

    While I agree that Martin flouts traditional characterizations of good and evil, fortunately, they do still exist in his stories and IRL, IMO. Ramsay and Joffrey are evil. Ned, though not perfect, is good.

  899. Ginevra: Ned, though not perfect, is good.

    Please list Ned’s imperfections.
    It won’t take long. 😉

  900. Ginevra: Flayed Potatoes:
    Olenna and the fan though….

    I know, right? I thought that the palanquin bested the fan, though, and maybe even the feathered helmet. #poshassbitch

    If it ever comes to the point where Olenna is feeling the heat so much that she peels her wimple off and lets everyone see her saggy neck, that’s when you know major mayhem is about to go down.

  901. Ginevra,

    Last September, WotW said that the actors playing the Theatre Manager and Ned Stark would be in 3 episodes. Based on what we’ve seen so far, I hope that your number (4) is correct for Ms. Davis.

  902. ghost of winterfell:
    Alex,

    Did you see the episode 7 preview? It has Sansa doing things, it has Sansa convincing people, with some help from Davos while Jon just looks at her. So it’s quite obvious how the next episode will go.
    It’s clear the writers want the northern storyline to be all about Sansa and they only need Jon to fight the battle, as obviously Sansa can’t do that too.

    I don’t think that is clear at all. Jon’s death changed him. He’s lost much of his Type A-ness, his sense of purpose, his sense of duty. He will get these back and come back stronger than ever – that’s what the series is setting us up for. I imagine that it will take Bran begging him and helping Jon to see the light (and by light, I mean Lightbringer and AAR).

  903. Vincent Stark,

    You could tell as Arya is watching the scene. The Sansa actress was mouthing the lines of the Cersei actress. The idea being she was jealous and wanted the part (made me think of “the understudy” Seinfeld episode).

  904. Wimsey,

    Wildlngs will have to fight for Jon because the Boltons will come for them. It’s more comng out of necessity rather than loyalty. Which is what Daeny is with Dothraki, loyalty and full trust by proving her strength. They’ll follow them but my point is under what circumstances and how is what will be different. Jon might even be still a crow to many of them if not all of them. Which is why Tormund needs to have a word with them as their leader. It was said many times, they only follow their own and that is Tormund.

    To Arya point. Can’t imagine that any Faceless Men would ever follow Arya. It’s not how this works. They’re more likely coming after her.

    Renly’s Ghost,

    One of them will end on the throne for sure but not like this triad. That would be too much of fan service. George didn’t spend so much time with Targaryens and their restoration is probably what will be the endgame.

  905. dvc,

    Disagree completely. Book Dany and Show Dany are very similar, in both you slowly get a sense that Dany could go the way of her father if she’s not careful. In the book she crucified the masters indiscriminately just like in the show, the only difference is that she had a brief glimpse of remorse as she should have. Dany is not conniving or greedy or selfish. She doesn’t have the malice that Cersei, Roose or Tywin have/had but she has one major problem that she shares with the recently departed Stannis: She’s entitled. She really thinks Westeros belongs to her, it doesn’t. Just like it doesn’t belong to Cersei or just like it wouldn’t belong to the true born son of crowned prince Rhaegar, be that Aegon or Jon. I’m afraid that entitledness sometimes blinds her to reality and leads her to act without restraint or compassion.

  906. KG,

    Tommen a moron? As Tywin said, Tommen will make a good king. And what Tommen did in this episode was secure the support of the entire KL population, the faith militant, the Tyrell’s, and the Lannister’s. Tommen and Margaery “won” just as much as the High Sparrow did. They averted a civil war, and in the process, significantly strengthened their power.

    Sometimes I wonder if some GoT fans think they’re smarter than they are. Like Cersei…

    In this case, Tommen is smarter than YOU by a long mile.

  908. It kind of amazes me how a lot of people hate the HS, especially those who would have the Lannisters win out against him. The poor and common in KL have been treated like crap by pretty much everybody in the Red Keep and certainly under Joffrey and then Cersei. I know a lot of people have been swayed to like Jamie because of how he has changed, but let’s not forget that he and his family have done some awful things to the people of KL and elsewhere and the HS is a symbol of the common people and they are pissed and rightfully so. You get a better idea of this in the books where Martin chronicles the suffering of the people, but you have gotten enough of it in the show to see that the poor and the common have gotten the short end of the stick while the nobles battle it out over Westeros. The faith militant are fanatics, but the Lannister’s don’t deserve any sympathy whatsoever. Yes the show has made a more sympathetic Cersei, but she has done horrible, horrible things so I hardly felt sorry for her during her walk of atonement and don’t feel sorry for her now. So I am a bit confused what people have against the HS and what he is done in KL. The common people of the city have been treated terribly and the quite frankly the Lannisters’s and the Highgardens and any other noble family that live a life of luxury and don’t care about the people while they are suffering certainly don’t deserve any sympathy at all. I find the character of the HS interesting and while he is a fanatic he is a clever one and making life miserable for the rich and powerful Lannister’s is just desserts in my book.

  909. Wimsey:
    By the way, is Sam’s stay in the south going to be a lot shorter than we anticipated?It does not seem that he can be going to Oldtown with his father’s sword.

    He better! I need to see Marwyn and glass candles and Alleras the Sphinx. I need Sam to find the secrets of wildfire and forging Valyrian steel, to find dragonglass resources, and to rally those who can be rallied in the South.

  910. Wimsey:
    Ginevra,

    Given the story of the season, I wonder if Arya somehow is going to win over Jacquen.The Waif is a lost cause, but Sexy Jesus obviously likes Arya.If Jon’s going to have Wildlings behind him and Daeny is going to have Dothraki behind her, it would be a nice parallelism is Arya gets some Faceless Men behind her.

    However, I do not know how that might happen: and one would think that a mechanism would have been introduced by now.(Of course, it might have been, and I simply have overlooked it.)

    Interesting idea. Maybe Bran will also get his own – ummm,the walkers? And then the 4 of them (my favorites!) will meet and play the game “Who’s Got the Coolest Army?” Unfortunately, my Jon would lose hahaha!

  911. Ghosts Lunch: In the Preview for next week, anyone know who the Clenched Fist Banner belongs to?

    Ask Pod – that’s his area of expertise. Has poor Daniel Portman had even a word this season yet? Only trying to make that fire in the snow after Sansa’s rescue, and I don’t think he said a word then. But so glad Bronn was mentioned and will be back next week. Missed him. I hope Jaime still gives him a bag of gold to go after the HS. HS is getting too cocky for someone who chants humility all the time.

  912. Will Jamie become a turn-coat at RR, convinced by Brienne to join Sansa/Jon army?
    Since Kings Landing is firmly in the control of the High Sparrow (Septon) and the Faith Militant.

  913. The Molehill that Rides: What I found interesting about this and all the wildfire visions is what if

    the Mad King was actually talking about the White Walkers when he was ranting about “burn them all!”?

    I find myself subscribing to the Bran & The Mad King theory more and more after each episode.

  914. ArgonathofBraavos:
    KG,

    Sometimes I wonder if some GoT think they’re smarter than they are. Like Cersei…

    Cersei is definitely not as clever as she thinks she is. But they’ve done a good job of portraying Tommen as very naive and easily manipulated but not exactly dim-witted (which was what I expected). There is an element / undertones of wanting Margery back so desperately because she sexed him up so good and he may not be so pleased with this “reformed” version!

  915. Wimsey: Yeah, somehow I am suspecting that Sansa is not going to get the answers she wants from the Glovers!

    Me too. There were no Glover banners in the trailer. Balon told Asha that the Glovers took back Deepwood Motte (without help from anyone else, unlike in the books). Maybe they are too busy mourning their dead and preparing for winter to listen to Sansa.

  916. Sam,

    But just how many faceless men are there? We’re only aware of two but, I guess, ANYONE could technically be one!

  917. Wimsey: Ah, but what did Daeny leave out?There was no promise of raping or enslaving.It was a promise to fight.

    Wimsey,

    Eh, Dany didn’t say she will crucify people but she did. So no I don’t expect her to say, “Let’s get raping and pillaging everyone!” but will it happen? Yes, as it usually happens when conquering is involved.

    And Daeny is not using fighting for “gain.”Remember, in this society, it is a moral obligation for someone like Daeny to raise armies and fight for her seat.It is exactly the same as what Sansa is doing right now, and what Yara probably is going to try to do.These are very Darwinian morals: a good person does everything he/she can for the good of his/her house, with an eye towards leaving the House strong long after he/she has been forgotten.

    And the road to hell are paved with good intentions. I think Dany is a good character deep down but her being a “mother” to the slaves got her nowhere. She’s going to stay true to her House’s words: Fire and blood.

    This goes back to the old “Daeny is an entitled brat for thinking she deserves the throne” fallacy.Nope.Daeny or anyone in her position would be acting like an entitled brat in the eyes of that society if they decided that they would rather do something else.Daeny or anyone else in her position would be a honorless coward in the eyes of that society if he/she shied away from doing it.If you are someone with a family name, then it is your duty and obligation to do what she is doing.

    And, of course, that means killing some people along the way.But: she never said anything about raping or enslaving.

    My point is Dany won’t come out of this morally unscathed along with other major characters in this series.

  918. Wimsey: My favorite part of that was that it felt like Renaissance Downton Abbey.

    Oh, that bedroom that Gilly was in! And the bed and bedspread! The outside of the castle, the richness of the ladies dresses – it was awesome. Can you even begin to imagine what Highgarden must be like?

  919. aabe,

    I’m not sure they have the sigils of the lesser houses exactly right. Jon and Davos (and Sansa?) are in a room adorned with a black bear on yellow. Is that supposed to be Mormont? I thought it was green?

    And there is a WHITE fist on ORANGE just after that. Not the silver fist on scarlett of House Glover but it might be MEANT to be…

  921. Wimsey,

    Wow much comments to go through! Definitely agree!

    I love how colorful they made the acting troope costumes compaired to the rest of the Braavosi citizens. I feel like they were possibly closer to what may have been worn in medieval/renaissance times. Clothing wasn’t all brown and dark leather like tv likes to portray. They did have some pretty outlandish outfits too!

  922. The Molehill that Rides: What I found interesting about this and all the wildfire visions is what if

    the Mad King was actually talking about the White Walkers when he was ranting about “burn them all!”?

    Why would he know about the White Walkers. Most of Westeros don’t believe they exist, why would the Mad King be any different?

  924. Shadow Shifter,

    Or more conveniently:

    There’s a theory that Bran’s green seeing (and possible attempts to change history) drove the Mad King mad but the inclusion of these elements in the vision montage raise the question of whether the “madness” was his reaction to something Bran revealed to him

  925. Firannion: Yes, I’ve been wondering what will be the catalytic event or series of events that gets Tyrion (and possibly Varys as well) to abandon the Dany bandwagon.

    First of all, I doubt Tyrion will come on board to overthrowing Tommen. He may despise his sister but he loves Myrcella and Tommen. This is the reason I think the show would have Tommen die before Dany sails for Westeros. Otherwise, Tyrion might just ask to be left behind in Meereen.

  926. Wimsey:
    Ginevra,

    It was?How did it fit?We saw Jaime stabbing at Aerys otherwise, didn’t we?

    Here:
    https://youtu.be/FakxDACGJXQ?t=17s
    Play it at a quarter speed and even then, be sure to pause often as there are many different scenes per second! But you’ll see the shadowed throne room scene as one of these. All scenes are out-of-sequence: we have many Red Wedding shots, many Mad King’s throne room shots, many wights in Bran’s forest shots, oodles of Hardhome shots, many wildfire in the basement shots, many baby dragons and Khaleesi shots, many of the large dragon flying over a city shots, many baby Other shots, and so on. But the throne room sequence, if you leave out those outside the throne room, goes like this: lots of Mad King on the throne, Jaime pulls a sword, Jaime’s pulling his sword out of the Mad King on his knees, Jaime stabbing the horizontal Mad King, Jaime sitting on the Iron Throne like he owns the world, and then this shadow scene.

  927. agostina,

    I think it is “Promise me…”
    Robb was kneeling on Talisa’s left side after she was stabbed, if this image was from that event it would had to have been mirrored. This person (standing) is on the right side of what appears to be a prone female figure.

  928. weirwoodtreehugger: Walder Frey is so damn creepy with his terrified child bride. Ick!

    Wasn’t that supposed to be his daughter who married Edmure? His last child bride was murdered by Catelyn at the Red Wedding (show version).

  929. Sam: Well, he also didn’t dominate ep1 and 2 as he was just mostly a corpse. ? Episode 3 was his “biggest” so far but not that big. I’m guessing ep9 will be his major episode. It looks like he will continue to be this muted, brooding man in the next episode (based on the preview). I hope I’m wrong though!

    I think 10 will be huge for him, as well. Episode 10 is going to really focus on the backstory of Jon, and I think this is definitely the one he meant that would be Jon-centric. Yes, the Battle of the Bastards will be partially focused on Jon, too, but Episode 10 will make us scream for joy for Jon.

  930. Arthur:
    Wimsey,

    It is all adding up to a song of ice and fire…

    Jon being Ice and Dany being fire.

    In the east, Dany with her Dragons is being looked at as some kind of savior/goddess.

    While in the north Jon is gathering his own pack of loyalists that also view him to be some kind of savior/god.

    Soon, Dany will land in Dorne and head north conquering all that she comes across and eventually she will meet up with Jon, unite and save Westeros from the Night’s King.

    I am sure there will be complex twists and turns and reveals along the way but that is the basic direction this show seems to be heading towards.

    I’m liking it!!!

    I know there are a number of parallelisms in the stories of Dany and Jon. However, there’s one big (?) difference between them – Dany is superhuman while Jon is, well, just human. What if Ice is Bran and not Jon? And maybe both Dany and Bran will need to use their powers together to defeat the enemies (whoever they are). Song of ice and fire. Just putting it out there… 🙂

  931. Firannion: Wasn’t that supposed to be his daughter who married Edmure?His last child bride was murdered by Catelyn at the Red Wedding (show version).

    Well, he did say to Catelyn that he’d just get another one if she killed that one…

  932. That was a solid, character driven episode. I just got back from seeing that abomination Age of Apocalypse today which was a huge CGI mess, and it was refreshing to see those two beautifully staged and lit scenes: the one in King’s Landing and the one in Mereen.

    Did people know about Benjen? Or was that a surprise? (it was to me).

    I wonder if those scenes of the Mad King were the ones from season 1 that were cut? I would guess probably.

    Not sure what to think of Maergery’s about face, I don’t know if I buy it. I did not see that twist coming in King’s Landing, that Tommen and Maergery would accept the Faith would open arms. I think it mostly works with the exception of Maergery which I’m still on the fence about.

    The Dany scene was a little cheesy, but looked really cool.

    Sam coming back to steal daddy’s sword after he carb shamed him was great.

    The return of Walder Frey was good, I’m guessing Arya is going to kill him.

  933. Ginevra: How do we know how to recognize the Hound’s feet? They aren’t exactly paws.

    Yeah, and he only takes like one-and-a-half strides before the cut, so I don’t know how anyone can say with certainty that he’s limping. I still think that’s a Meribald scene. Whatever the Hound does after the shockeroo unveiling is likely to get pushed back to S7, methinks.

  934. Sam,

    Jon’s a Song of Ice and Fire on his own if RLJ. Dany is not superhuman, not in the books at least. In the show she has one skill that doesn’t count for much if she’s kept away from fire in close quarters. She cannot sumon or create fire from nothing, she cannot control it, she just doesn’t burn.

  935. Sam,

    Isn’t the more important similarity that both Daeny and Jon

    are both Targaryens? In fact, maybe there’s something to your theory that Daeny (Targaryen) is Fire and Bran (exclusively Stark) is Ice but Jon is BOTH!

  937. Connor:
    agostina,

    It’s Robb putting his hand on Talisa’s stomach after she was stabbed during the Red wedding.

    Close, yes, but I don’t think they are the same. The prominent brown leather on Lyanna’s wrist isn’t on Talisa’s. The color of the dress looks different, which could be lighting, but why would the lighting be different in the flashback than it was in the actual wedding. And Talisa seems to have no bedsheet-like material under her but rather wooden floor, which is the biggest difference.

    Flashback of Lyanna:
    https://youtu.be/FakxDACGJXQ?t=13s

    Compared to Talisa at the RW:

  938. Videl:
    Sam,

    Jon’s a Song of Ice and Fire on his own if RLJ. Dany is not superhuman, not in the books at least. In the show she has one skill that doesn’t count for much if she’s kept away from fire in close quarters. She cannot sumon or create fire from nothing, she cannot control it, she just doesn’t burn.

    Yeah the way I’m beginning to see it is Night’s King is Ice, Dany is Fire and John is the Bridge between the two

  940. Lady_Vicious1984:
    Jehphg,

    I was thinking/hoping the same thing! I kept trying to rewind during the visions, and the bloody hands definitely came right after Ned says “where’s mysister”. My only concern with that is that they showed Robb at the Red Wedding right after, so it could also have been Talisa’s hand and Robb’s on her bloody stomach. So hoping that was Lyanna, though!

    Looks to me like Lyanna had no midwife and gave herself a C-section because Jon was stuck.

  942. Wimsey:
    Ginevra,

    Given the story of the season, I wonder if Arya somehow is going to win over Jacquen.The Waif is a lost cause, but Sexy Jesus obviously likes Arya.If Jon’s going to have Wildlings behind him and Daeny is going to have Dothraki behind her, it would be a nice parallelism is Arya gets some Faceless Men behind her.

    However, I do not know how that might happen: and one would think that a mechanism would have been introduced by now.(Of course, it might have been, and I simply have overlooked it.)

    The bolded part sounds exactly like my conversation with Ice Spider. The Waif hates Arya possibly because she’s jelly of all the Sexy Jesus love that Arya imbues. We speculated that Jaqen allowed the Waif to hunt Arya to see if Arya could end her. I’m not certain Sexy Jesus loves her enough to leave the FM and follow her, but perhaps he’ll teach her the ways or at least give her some faces.

  943. Videl:
    Sam,

    Jon’s a Song of Ice and Fire on his own if RLJ. Dany is not superhuman, not in the books at least. In the show she has one skill that doesn’t count for much if she’s kept away from fire in close quarters. She cannot sumon or create fire from nothing, she cannot control it, she just doesn’t burn.

    GRRM did say before that his 2 most magical characters are Dany and Bran. Bran is super powerful right now. As for Dany, maybe GRRM hasn’t shown yet how powerful Dany can be with fire but he will in his next books? People were complaining about how fast the fire spread in ep4. What if Dany has the power to command the fire and make it bigger? Plus, she has 3 f**kng dragons at her command! Hey, I’m just speculating. 🙂 I think it’s time to go to bed!

  944. Wimsey: Maybe.However, I would have thought that they would have used her blindness to introduce that.

    Still, like LSH, people will probably be hoping that it turns up in the closing credits of the final episode if it does not happen before then!?

    Yeah, but unlike LSH, Nymeria hasn’t been lying dead in a river for years.

  945. ArgonathofBraavos,

    You take this so personally. Do you have a photo of Tommy that you kiss before bedtime?

    He was completely suckered by the High Sparrow. Whatever plan was set in motion during tonight’s episode, I guarantee that King Dipshit has/had:

    No involvement in the planning stage
    No clue to the actual purpose of the plan
    No control over his kingdom anymore

    If that equates competent leadership in your personal estimation, then Tommen isn’t the only imbecile here.

  946. Did anyone else notice during the rapid Bran vision as the mad king screams burn them all we get a glimpse of a wildfire cache igniting. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Jamie prevented the ignition?! Is this foreshadowing of something to come?! As we can see in other images in the vision, it was not strictly past-based.

    I’m trying to break down the scene frame by frame, there is SO MUCH THERE.

    Another image of note is what I believe to be Ned’s bloody hand…

  947. Ghosts Lunch: Yeah the way I’m beginning to see it is Night’s King is Ice, Dany is Fire and John is the Bridge between the two

    Yeah, I’ve also speculated that’s what his arc is – to serve as a bridge. He seems to be the one meant to see the bigger picture or see/understand the views of different sides: wildlings and the NW, now wildlings and northerners, soon fire and ice.

  948. The Molehill that Rides,

    I agree this is a possibility. In the flashbacks, the voice-over kept echoing when the white walker scenes were playing. I believe there’s a connection of some sort.

  949. a couple of observations.

    edmure seems surprisingly well groomed after spending months in the frey dungeons.

    how did they expect arya to become no one when they kept calling her lady stark and referring to her as a highborn person and reminding her of who she was? a bit counter-productive i’m thinking.

    cersei needs to pull out her inner cersei on tommen and get some scheming going on. i was never much of a cersei fan but she really needs to whip her manipulative ways out on him and get him under her thumb to get him away from uncle kevan who appears to be pulling his strings along with the puppet master the HS. i wonder what would happen during her trial by combat if she named the mountain and the sparrow named tommen. would she go through with it? surely not.

    it’s nice to see walder frey home again. after all, the O.W.L.’s have been taken and hogwarts is closed for the summer holidays. he deserves a rest after dealing with all those little wizard wanna-be’s.

    speaking of hogwarts, dickon can play quidditch on a broomstick, cast spells, is aware of trolls, vampires, and werewolves but doesn’t believe in white walkers? yeah, i know. mixing stories there.

    kudos to all of you who were able to make out all those pictures from the flashes in bran’s vision blasts. i think i may have caught one in five if i was lucky.
    the picture of the bloody hand some people seem think may be robb’s hand on his wife’s stabbed belly is not what you think it is. at the red wedding robb was wearing a woolen/cloth type of sleeve. the sleeve in this picture shows leather with a leather binding.

    so, yeah, george said benjen is not cold hands. so? it isn’t the first time D&D have combined one or more characters to create one. this is just another instance. welcome back uncle benjen.

    my personal opinion, they should have ended the episode not with dany but on the scene where arya blows out the flame. blow out the flame, roll credits. how does that not have a perfect flow to it? they could have put dany in earlier. and, whoa! is drogan on steroids or something?

  950. Wimsey: Well, that’s not entirely true. For one thing, most people are going to question the “I died” part of the story.?

    If Jon is physically before them and shows them the eight deep chest wounds – which, unfortunately for us ladies, means that we’ll have to endure seeing lots of Kit’s abs – then I don’t see how they could deny that Jon was undead. Plus, when he learns that he can light Lightbringer with just his blood, they’ll be even more convinced.

  951. ramses,

    Unless she was standing up dancing on the bed while delivering, I can’t see any way for what has to be at least a gallon of blood drenching the bed as high as her waistline and as far outward as the edge of the bed. (Judging by the position of her hand)

    Yes, some could be smeared around, but there is enough to form small puddles.

    Of course, the production team could have been overzealous, too. That’s always a possibility!

  952. Aryamad: I hate how petty The Waif is… She’s always had a chip on her shoulder with Arya since the start for no apparent reason and it’s annoyingly childish.

    Yeah, I’ve always wondered why the showrunners recast the Waif as having something personal against Arya. The impression she gave me in the books was much more Zenlike. She trained her without any sense of personal investment or resentment or anything like that, as far as I can recall. One would think that getting all pissy about one of your students would be a liability for someone supposedly highly skilled and experienced as an assassin, who is expected to be disciplined and detached and dispassionate about her work. It’s odd.

  953. aabe:
    Connor,

    What if Arya kills waif, takes her face, go to HoBaW to steal some faces, then get the hell out of Braavos?

    That would be awesome! However, does Arya know how to take a face? Because that would be the ultimate weapon of awesomeness since it means Arya has the power to become anyone she’s willing to kill, including Walder Frey, Cersei, and the Mountain.

  954. keltia:
    Ginevra,

    Last September, WotW said that the actors playing the Theatre Manager and Ned Stark would be in 3 episodes.Based on what we’ve seen so far, I hope that your number (4) is correct for Ms. Davis.

    If you remember three, I’m sure that is what it was. I couldn’t remember the exact number but I just knew it was more than two. I wish it were four. I love Essie.

  955. The Molehill that Rides:
    Ginevra,

    I’m curious how Longclaw becomes Lightbringer
    (Assuming that is the sequence)

    So Beric the Undead was able to light his sword using only his blood. He does this when he fights the Hound, who is completely petrified of fire because of what the Mountain did to his face as a boy. My theory is that this magic flaming blood now runs through Jon’s veins, as well, since he is also undead. And when they figure that out, the flaming Lightbringer (Longclaw) will just add fuel to the fire that Jon is AAR, TPTWP.

  956. Lady_Vicious1984:
    Jehphg,

    I was thinking/hoping the same thing! I kept trying to rewind during the visions, and the bloody hands definitely came right after Ned says “where’s mysister”. My only concern with that is that they showed Robb at the Red Wedding right after, so it could also have been Talisa’s hand and Robb’s on her bloody stomach. So hoping that was Lyanna, though!

    If it’s Lyanna though, it’s probable that she died because she was stabbed. That’s one long gash! If so, then she didn’t die while birthing someone who knows nothing? Did she even give birth to a baby?

  958. Nymeria the Wolf,

    My pleasure 🙂
    Watching the tower of joy scene again, I think the bloody hand from Bran’s vision belong to Howland Reed (unless there was a third party present or if it is a totally different vision) because Ned had steel gauntlets with no strings and Howland had leather gauntlets which were tied together by strings. The bloody hand in today’s vision had leather gauntlets with strings. Lyanna (or the bleeding woman) wore a loose dress which bared her forearm.

  960. Ginevra: So Beric the Undead was able to light his sword using only his blood.He does this when he fights the Hound, who is completely petrified of fire because of what the Mountain did to his face as a boy.My theory is that this magic flaming blood now runs through Jon’s veins, as well, since he is also undead.And when they figure that out, the flaming Lightbringer (Longclaw) will just add fuel to the fire that Jon is AAR, TPTWP.

    If so, could Beric also be the AAR/TPTWP since he’s come back from the dead and has a flaming sword? What would make Jon “more special” than him?

  961. Lionthing,

    I sensed her arc would lead to one of becoming a villain, maybe not by her standards but in much of the audience’s… yes. However presenting that speculation gets us called “haters.” Can I now say “told ya so?” Too early still? OK there’s time for that later. I’m sure we could be wrong and Dany doesn’t really mean what she says and isn’t getting a grandiose sense of entitlement. *eye roll*

    dvc,

    Sure enough it seems like Jon is relegated to being a background supporting character . Not my kind of story when they build hype around one of a main character, have him die then come back to life only to be neutered for most of the following season so that another main character can become the voice in his story line. I mean, the way it looks how in the heck is he going to become a power player by the time ep 9 the battle without letting us see some kind of convincing build-up? It’s just confusing and frustrating. But I’m still hopeful 🙂

  963. Sam: If it’s Lyanna though, it’s probable that she died because she was stabbed. That’s one long gash! If so, then she didn’t die while birthing someone who knows nothing? Did she even give birth to a baby?

    I don’t see a gash, https://www.dropbox.com/s/d45tvktgag3u4ug/lyanna.png?dl=0. Rather, I see a trail of blood on bedsheets where she likely hemorrhaged after having the baby, and now she’s lying in a pool of blood. During a fatal postpartum hemorrhage, I believe one could lose several quarts of blood.

  964. Sam: I haven’t seen it before either. It looks like the woman was stabbed in the belly. So, if it’s Lyanna, then did someone stab her??? Or could it be Talisa? However, it didn’t look like the woman was pregnant.

    That’s not a stab wound. That’s a long, straight vertical incision. When Talisa was murdered, the Freys were sticking their knives in her abdomen and pulling them out again repeatedly. What we see in that still is a medieval attempt at a C-section in a situation where labor was not progressing, I believe. Even in my own youth, Caesareans were done with a vertical cut, leaving a very large scar; the low, lateral ‘bikini cut’ is a development of very modern medicine.

  965. Sam: If so, could Beric also be the AAR/TPTWP since he’s come back from the dead and has a flaming sword? What would make Jon “more special” than him?

    Targaryen blood. Stark blood. Together making the Song of Ice and Fire. The Prince that Was Promised.

  966. Clob,

    I was not prepared for Tommen to take up with the militant faith and speak to his father in such a way! I thought for sure he’d be with Jamie and Mace demanding his queen be let free. Though there was word that Marg could be converted, probaly just to go along and try to help her brother I was guessing. But yeah that smug face on the HS pissed me off lol.

  967. A few thoughts:
    I wish they could have introduced Coldhands earlier, but I think that Coldhands being Benjen makes sense for the show, even if he isn’t Benjen in the books, because what other character could he be? Benjen’s return ties up a loose end.

    I was expecting the Benjen reveal, but I think many viewers probably had no idea who Benjen was after 5 years.

    That was one AWKWARD family dinner. Sam getting a Valyrian steel sword is gonna be important later.

    What’s going to happen to Loras Tyrell now?

    Where will Arya go now? With the amount of screen time the players have gotten, maybe she’ll travel with them back to Westeros?

    I can’t wait to see Bronn again <3

    Drogon is HUGE! Who will the other dragon riders be?

  968. I really enjoyed this episode from a book reader’s perspective. Margaery spinning so many plates to get out of the cell was perfection, even if the army marching on the steps of the Sept makes everything significantly more complicated. Arya’s struggle with the Faceless Men was really poignant and I really felt for Sam and Gilly this episode. It’s almost absurd to expect something positive from this show in terms of a happy ending, but that little family deserves it. https://goo.gl/OGHPF9

  969. Demon Monkey,
    “I keep feeling those who hate Sansas role here can’t deal w having a strong female protagonist outshine the male.”

    She can be as strong as the mountain for all I care lol! She can ride into King’s landing, kill Cercei and become dominatrix to Jamie Lannister and I wouldn’t mind. Is it so hard to wrap one’s mind around the fact that some of us have “favorites” (regardless of what their “gender” is) that we enjoy scenes with over the last 5 years, and still want to see more of, that we might not like it if anyone else comes in and overshadows their dialogue and development? It would be the same feeling if it were one of the male siblings, Bran or RickonI loved the reunion but I don’t want Jon to take a backseat to Sansa thise whole season.

  971. Wimsey: “Queen Bees” tend to be a bit more hierarchical and classist in their ways of thinking: and for that type of society, Daeny is about as close as you would get to a flaming populist!

    Not always. I used to have a horrific, hypercritical, micromanaging Queen Bee boss who identified as politically progressive/leftish and idolized Eleanor Roosevelt. She would sit under an Eleanor poster on her office wall with the quote ‘No one can make you feel inferior without your consent’ to make her feel ideologically pure while she systematically belittled and picked apart her underlings’ work and made them feel inferior (whether they consented or not). And she did volunteer work for a mentoring program for young women – while driving out one good female employee after another from the organization by making their working lives utterly miserable. She was certainly classist (automatically assuming that job candidates with degrees from expensive private colleges were more intelligent than ones who attended state universities, for example) but had zero insight into the fact that she was.

  972. ygritte: Is it so hard to wrap one’s mind around the fact that some of us have “favorites” (regardless of what their “gender” is) that we enjoy scenes with over the last 5 years, and still want to see more of, that we might not like it if anyone else comes in and overshadows their dialogue and development?

    Unfortunately, when it comes to Sansa, most of her fans think only in terms of gender. If she is criticized, it’s ‘hate’. If fans prefer to see more of another character, it’s sexism and misogyny. If they like Arya more, it’s because they hate girly girls. If women criticize Sansa it’s internalized misogyny.

    The problem I have with the current story line, is that this is most probably Jon’s TWoW plot that we are seeing. Last season, Theon was sidelined from his ADwD story and this season Jon is sidelined from his TWoW plot because the writers want to give Sansa a bigger role.

    The rate this is going, Jon should have just stayed dead and they could have told the story with Sansa rallying the North and being Queen and taking on the Others. As plenty of others mentioned early on, the show does not really need Jon Snow right now and they do not seem keen on exploring him as a character. Dany suffers from the same problem where the character development is very superficial for her. They just give her some bad ass moments and move on. I think that once she meets up with Tyrion, she is going to get sidelined as well.

    I get that the writers like characters like Cersei and Sansa. But it’s disappointing that characters like Jaime and Jon get the short end of the stick. If you want to call me a misogynist for feeling like that, go ahead. That word has lost importance due to be thrown around to prevent any critical discussions about female characters.

  974. Ginevra: He better! I need to see Marwyn and glass candles and Alleras the Sphinx. I need Sam to find the secrets of wildfire and forging Valyrian steel, to find dragonglass resources, and to rally those who can be rallied in the South.

    Me too!

  975. Pizdainpula,

    So what? It’s OK. to. be. biased. Lol. This is an ensemble work of fiction and we are not all meant to love the same characters because if we did??? That would mean it’s formulaic and trite storytelling. Yipee ki yeah.

  976. Pizdainpula,

    Yeah he should just ignore him.One should only read the opinions that match their own. Cause we live in lala land and in such a place everything should be sunshine and roses (of the particular color you like. ) 🙂

  979. George,

    Horn Hill was magnificent. (non-reader so nothing for comparison.) And Tommen, what a weak little follower. Everything will go to shit under his “rule” but Cercei has only herself to blame. The woman is reaping what she has sowed.

  980. The Molehill that Rides: Well, he did say to Catelyn that he’d just get another one if she killed that one…

    He did. And if he has already done so, then that blows a big hole in the theory that Arya will disguise herself as his next child bride and gut him on their wedding night.

  981. LatrineDiggerBrian: I wonder if those scenes of the Mad King were the ones from season 1 that were cut? I would guess probably.

    His rather tacky crown does suggest that they’re footage from days of smaller costume and prop budgets!

  983. Firannion: The gash shows clearly in the still at 5:53 in this series.It’s huge!

    http://imgur.com/gallery/5WMdv/new

    What I see is a crease in the blood-soaked bed linens starting in the top left of the picture and going to the middle (left vs. right) of the picture, about a fifth of the way from the top: http://imgur.com/a/5WMdv/layout/grid#34. Is that what everyone else is calling this enormous gash? Almost the entire picture is not a body but bed linens that have been soaked in blood. You can see the whitish edges of the linens where the blood has not yet soaked.

  984. The Bastard:

    (Cold) north vs (hot) south, Ice vs fire, makes sense to me…. I have a feeling the houses of Lannister and Tyrell will not in existence at that point, though a few members could still be alive and kicking. I’m liking your idea of Tyrion changing sides. SO you think the WW will literally take a side when the humans’ battle?

  985. eejazz:
    Solid episode. I just wasn’t a fan of the ending. It was clear that the Dothraki were already on Dany’s side, and we’ve been wow’ed by dragons more than twice. Didn’t seem very climactic to me, especially since the group had < 5min of total screen time, and nothing new was accomplished.

    Minor complaint aside, lots of great stuff in this episode. I’m especially excited about Arya’s storyline, although annoyingly it looks like we may not be getting that until EP8 judging by the preview….

    It tit’s ‘n’ dragons after all. dragons fighting or doing stuff is expensive so they show us dragons sitting around with a nice pair of titties mounted.

    Essos storyline is complete and utterly BS this season. Not one good scene so far.

  986. Icekhione,

    Damn, I mean, does Kit just get a kick out of lying to us now? Lol. He’s become morally corrupted, no thanks to Dave and Dan!

  987. Sam: If it’s Lyanna though, it’s probable that she died because she was stabbed. That’s one long gash! If so, then she didn’t die while birthing someone who knows nothing? Did she even give birth to a baby?

    There were two Kingsguard at the ToJ. Kingsguard whose first duty is to protect their king. So yeah, there is a baby at the ToJ, I would reckon. But maybe he was born before Ned reached the Tower. Who knows.

  988. Ginevra,

    Then what is that thing with the gash?? It’s lying on topof the bed linens. That whole image is not bloodied bed linens. It doesn’t even look like a torso, except maybe a paritally putrified one. Except it would almost have to be a body cause Look at the angle to the arm. I knew Lyann’s screams sounded like that of a woman being fatally wounded 🙁

  990. The Molehill that Rides:
    Shadow Shifter,

    Or more conveniently:

    No, I mean, the assertion that the Mad King somehow knew about the White Walkers because Bran messed with the past. I seem to recall Jamie telling Brienne how Aerys wanted to burn everyone before Jaime killed him.

  991. Firannion,

    OK I just saw this and I don’t why that didn’t occur to me. A C-section, of course! Although it is kind of an unusual placement for the cut, off to the side like that.

  992. ygritte:
    Firannion,

    OK I just saw this and I don’t why that didn’t occur to me. A C-section, of course! Although it is kind of an unusual placement for the cut, off to the side like that.

    It reminds me of “The Death of Queen Jane,” the 16th-century ballad about Jane Seymour’s death in childbirth, which I’ll bet is familiar to GRRM. Here’s the Joan Baez version:

    Queen Jane lay in labor
    For six weeks and more
    The women grew weary
    And the midwife gave o’er

    King Henry, he was sent for
    On horseback and speed
    King Henry came to her
    In the time of her need

    Oh Henry, good King Henry
    If that you do be
    Please pierce my side open
    And save my baby

    Oh no Jane, good Queen Jane
    That never could be
    I’d lose my sweet flower
    To save my baby

    Queen Jane she turned over
    She fell all in a swoon
    Her side was pierced open
    And the baby was found

    How bright was the morning
    How yellow was the moon
    How costly the white robes
    Queen Jane was wrapped in

    King Henry he weeped
    He wrung his hands ’til they’re sore
    The flower of England
    Will never be no more

    (Women rarely survived Caesareans in the centuries before people understood about germ theory, and they typically would not be done unless all other hope was lost – though ‘six weeks and more’ of labor is undoubtedly hyperbole!)

  993. I like how just because Jon isn’t in every episode, he’s suddenly relegated to a second-class citizen.

    The show has always been about all the stories. Sit down and quit acting like nincompoops.

  996. SerNoName: I get that the writers like characters like Cersei and Sansa. But it’s disappointing that characters like Jaime and Jon get the short end of the stick. If you want to call me a misogynist for feeling like that, go ahead.

    There are a lot of characters – male and female – that one could argue at any point in time that get the short end of the stick. Instead of why Sansa over Jon, why time with Sam over Jon? Or why Davos over Mel? I mean, Mel brought a man back to life and she’s been totally sidelined. Or Tyrion over Varys? Or Jamie over Cersei?

    Cersei had the big walk of atonement at the end of last season, and all she’s done this year is sit in her chamber drinking wine and making empty threats.

    I have no idea if you’re a misogynist or not:), and I kind of doubt it from your eloquence. Intelligent men generally don’t look down on women, but they might look down on writers if they believe the writers are trying to score political/media points via the plot line.

    But I don’t think they are, and I don’t think the current arcs are a reaction or overreaction to criticism early on about nudity etc. Even in the books, many of the women are badass or have been badass-in-training for a long time. Arya, Dany, Cercie…all strong from almost the start. It makes sense that Sansa’s character is evolving, just as it makes sense for Jon to be in a total funk after being betrayed. He always was a brooder. It’s in-character, which is why I don’t think this is manipulation. And from her first scenes, Yara was always very strong, and in his first scenes Theon was a weaselly runt. So that plot line now also makes sense.

    I don’t think this has to be about female characters vs. male characters. Aren’t they all people? Each with their own path and drive and ambitions?

    The only thing I find misogynist about some of the comments I read here (not you in particular that I know of) are whines that some of the women are becoming too strong. As if both men and women can’t be strong in their own ways. As if one gender of characters don’t deserve to be strong or devious or players. As if one group of characters are supposed to be relegated to supporting cast.

    At some point or another some people are in the foreground, some in the background, some underground, some just absent from the ground. To me, this season overall has been edge-of-my-sofa amazing. I think most of the characters are exactly where they should be. True I’m a big fan of Jon and wish there was more of him, but I trust this funk is going somewhere. I can’t wait for the big battle to come, but the set up and depth and reveals are moving the show right along.

    After Ep1 I was worried we were going to get mired in more sideshow stuff, but finally story lines are converging and I couldn’t be happier.

  997. Mihnea:
    Firannion,

    Actually no, it isn’t the same actor.

    Yeah I didn’t realize initially that that was the scene where Jaime killed the Mad King, not the one where the Mad King burnt Ned’s dad and killed his brother.

  998. Firannion,

    Scary stuff giving birth in those days. (kind of makes me nauseous just thinking about it.) I understand why sex was viewed by women as a do your duty type of thing, producing heirs yeah but also putting one’s life on the line just by getting pregnant. Not that there isn’t risk involved to this day but it’s miniscule compared to those times for sure. I probably would’ve ended up an old maid.

  999. Firannion,

    I just picked this up off Reddit, Is it possible Ned himself had to cut the baby out? That could line up with some of the “guilt” he has that goes along with that whole event perhaps? DOn’t know why though cause Lyanna’s the one that would have asked him to do it, after all he wouldn’t know how long she’s been in labor and that he needed to get the baby out.

    The “prophecy” of born under a bleeding star possibly having meaning with Ned using the bloody sword of Starfall?

    I need to go do some wiki reading on this…

  1000. ygritte:
    Firannion,

    Scary stuff giving birth in those days. (kind of makes me nauseous just thinking about it.) I understand why sex was viewed by women as a do your duty type of thing, producing heirs yeah but also putting one’s life on the line just by getting pregnant. Not that there isn’t risk involved to this day but it’s miniscule compared to those times for sure. I probably would’ve ended up an old maid.

    I’m quite sure that I would have died in childbirth, and probably my son along with me, had there not be a sterile operating room handy after I’d worn myself well out with 27 hours of labor, the last 3 1/2 of them pushing! I’d been all primed for natural childbirth, with a midwife and a doula; but that boy did not want to budge, and I was immensely grateful to have the option of safe, clean and painless surgery available. For all that we complain about the shortcomings of modern medicine, I wouldn’t trade it for living in any centuries past.

  1001. ygritte: Is it possible Ned himself had to cut the baby out? That could line up with some of the “guilt” he has that goes along with that whole event perhaps? DOn’t know why though cause Lyanna’s the one that would have asked him to do it, after all he wouldn’t know how long she’s been in labor and that he needed to get the baby out.

    “Please pierce my side open
    And save my baby”

    Yup, could well be what happened! And the possible use of Dawn as a surgical tool is pretty intriguing.

    I guess we’ll know in a few weeks.

  1002. Shadow Shifter: No, I mean, the assertion that the Mad King somehow knew about the White Walkers because Bran messed with the past. I seem to recall Jamie telling Brienne how Aerys wanted to burn everyone before Jaime killed him.

    Since we’re bailing on calling this a possible spoiler…

    Not in one step. Bran obviously didn’t tell him to kill everyone in KL.

    BUT he COULD have tried to mess with the past (even just to drive the Mad King’s compulsion to stockpile wildfire) but you see what that did to Hodor’s head. It’s not even my likely outcome but it’s also not a huge leap that showing him visions of Walkers, hearing Bran’s voice in the wind took him quickly from: “be prepared to defend the kingdoms with fire” to “burn everyone”.

    Not everyone is as pure of heart and simple of purpose as Wylis/Hodor. And madness isn’t logical.

    Not saying that’s what’s going to happen but showing hordes of wights, the Jaime flashbacks and the “green kool aid” all closely together (among other shots obviously) made me think they might be setting the stage for it.

  1003. Shadow Shifter: Except that she’s using that same culture (of killing and pillaging) for her own gain. The Dothraki follows the strongest. As long as Dany stays on her “I’ll take what is mine with fire and blood” path, the horde will follow her. Any sign of negotiating and diplomacy will be seen as weakness by them.

    Dany is a cultural chameleon, which is quite useful for a conquering leader. She talks to people in their own language all the freakin’ time.

    This speech was all about securing the Dothraki loyalty. People seem to tune out and stop paying attention anytime Dany makes a speech and miss all the nuance.

    1) She used Drogo’s speech as a template, knowing many there had heard it in person.

    2) She changed several key lines (in particular the RAPE and ENSLAVE parts)

    3) She took a cultural touchstone (blood riders / blood of my blood) and altered it to follow her own more egalitarian principals.

    What we are seeing here is Dany attempting to gradually bring the Dothraki over to accepting her values, because they believe she is literally a God, and holds (some) Dothraki values. It’s going to be a slow process but this was a very skillful speech and a great starting point.

    And it’s not like the Dothraki (other than perhaps a trusted representative) are going to be in the negotiation room watching her negotiate. She’s going to continue to speak to them as Dothraki, and to others as a Westerosi, or as the blood of old Valyria, or a Free Cities woman. Dany is very good at inspiring people because she knows people.

    Oh and before you say “but what about Slaver’s Bay????” It’s been made abundantly clear that the people who oppose Dany are Slavers. There is nothign she could say to them that would convert them to her side because she is standing in the way of their ability to brutally oppress others. Dany cannot and should not “respect” such a culture. 90%+ of Mereeneese – the poorest 90% and thus hold less than half the “power” – love her and will follow her.

  1004. Firannion: Yeah, I’ve always wondered why the showrunners recast the Waif as having something personal against Arya.The impression she gave me in the books was much more Zenlike.She trained her without any sense of personal investment or resentment or anything like that, as far as I can recall.One would think that getting all pissy about one of your students would be a liability for someone supposedly highly skilled and experienced as an assassin, who is expected to be disciplined and detached and dispassionate about her work.It’s odd.

    Impression I’ve got was that coming in with a coin “whose value she did not understand” rubbed her up the wrong way from the get-go, and then Aryas “whining” didn’t help

    Probably doesen’t like her for the same reason the original Jagen took a strong liking to her, just diposed towards being non-neutral to some people

    In the books I’d say Jagen-turned-Pate hanging out in Oldtown would perhaps intervene to help Arya against the other FM. Suppose it’s a chance

    Outside of that, her warging ability would give her an edge and I’d say the only thing that can protect her is Nymeria and her wolf pack in the RL who’d be able to sniff out a FM assassin coming for her

    Think Arya will get away now, but right at the very end they’ll get her, a bit similar to Dany and the House of Undying who will pounce out of nowhere right at the end

  1005. Firannion: to me like Lyanna had no midwife and gave herself a C-section because Jon was stuck.

    I’ve been thinking this too, or that whoever else was in the tower with her tried whatever it took to save the baby if it got complicated – and/or tried kill Lyanna. Attempted Ceasar seems more likely though to me.

  1006. QueenofThrones: Dany is a cultural chameleon, which is quite useful for a conquering leader.She talks to people in their own language all the freakin’ time.

    How realistic is it though to change the ingrained habits and erase the cultures and traditions of people overnight? It would take decades to do that, if not a century. I have no doubt that Dany would not want to wreak havoc among the innocents of Westeros. However, bringing the Dothraki to Westeros could doom her campaign. First of all, where would these people settle? How can she ensure that the savage Dothraki men wouldn’t let out their inner aggression and prey on the weak once they land there? This is why I’m hoping she wouldn’t bring them overseas and use them as weapons. Let them settle in the land they’re familiar with and impose some new rules? Maybe, that’s also not realistic. I’m sounding too naive about this conquering thing, I think. 🙂 I just don’t want her to be that kind of a conqueror.

  1007. ygritte,

    That certainly what I’m thinking after seeing the amount of blood that was on that woman’s belly… a forced c-section and mostly performed by Ned.
    Could be just the kind of “O Fuck” moment for book readers too, since most of us are pretty convinced R=L=J but Ned knowing he had to kill his own sister to save her baby would be retching to me.

  1008. ghost of winterfell: There were two Kingsguard at the ToJ. Kingsguard whose first duty is to protect their king. So yeah, there is a baby at the ToJ, I would reckon. But maybe he was born before Ned reached the Tower. Who knows.

    Yeah, Ser Arthur did tell Ned their prince wanted them to be there. They’re definitely protecting someone important to Rhaegar.

  1009. Ginevra: Targaryen blood.Stark blood.Together making the Song of Ice and Fire.The Prince that Was Promised.

    I see your point. Maybe a flaming sword is the one that could convince people he was indeed dead and was resurrected? (long shot!) Anyway, that’s another big problem they’re facing. To people outside CB, he’s a deserter. I’d be surprised if people would just accept his story.

  1010. And I tell you… I have some Pretty Big thoughts about the end game to GoT (that may come to pass) these last few hours.. (and certainly relying on the show’s telling of it rather than how the path in the books may go)

    But… here’s my take on Arya. I strongly believe it was the Waif that hired the kill on Lady Crane (maybe she brided the younger actress to take kill to the House of Black & White) but felt sure she knew Arya would fail to carrying it out and though most of us know there going to be a face-down with Arya and the Waif… maybe it’s Jaqen (or whoever that faceless man turns out to be) that finally despatches the waif as she broke some FM covenant..?
    Why the waif IS so hostile to Arya..?
    I’d bloody lose my mind if the the Waif turned out to be Jenne Poole and the current Jaqen turn out to be Soreil Florel, he rescued her as he was making his escape! (take that book lovers… you sort of got an Un-Arya ;o)

    Feel sure she runs off with the acting troop but feel she can’t really have the faceless me after her to survive!

  1011. Connor,

    Oh no, I’m loving their interactions, the least I want for them is for them to remain close when everything ends (yeah as if 🙁 …) cause they are so affectionate with each other

  1012. After watching the episode again we noticed when Benjen first appeared he touched his mace-torch on Meera or Bran (hard to see) and it ignited. Any significance or wishful viewing?

  1013. Blanche Holstein,

    He dropped it, as in let it unchain, from horseback and it caught fire instantly after that.
    … thinking it must be a spelled weapon the Children gave him :o)

  1014. Firannion: Do you think they will experience epic-scale seasickness?

    Oh, it won’t be a pretty sight! Ironborn and Dothraki, made for each other. Vomit and blood guaranteed!

    Ginevra,
    Thanks for the list and vid!

  1015. HereBeDragons:
    ygritte,

    That certainly what I’m thinking after seeing the amount of blood that was on that woman’s belly… a forced c-section and mostly performed by Ned. Could be just the kind of “O Fuck” moment for book readers too, since most of us are pretty convinced R=L=J but Ned knowing he had to kill his own sister to save her baby would be retching to me.

    And on top of that having to use “Dawn” to er, make the incision…

    I’ve never thought about this before but it makes one wonder

  1016. Sam: Yeah, Ser Arthur did tell Ned their prince wanted them to be there. They’re definitely protecting someone important to Rhaegar.

    For mine, the Kingsguard protecting someone expected to be of the heir lineage to the Throne (after Rhaegar at the time) makes sense

    More than that though it probably delves into his belief in the Prophecy

    More than that you have to look at who is there exactly, rather than take to the Battle of the Trident or even back to KL to protect Aerys, Rhaegar leaves:

    Ser Gerold Hightower – LC of the Kingsguard, also of the Hightowers of Oldtown who seem to have their own Prophecy related interests/schemes
    Ser Arthur Dayne – Flashiest/best swordsman on Planetos at the time it seems, but also the wielder of what may or may not be “Lightbringer”
    Ser Oswald Whent – of Harrenhall fame, obviously where we have the Tourney of Harrenhall during the year of false Spring (false “Dawn”…) but think of all the bloodmagic but also the proximity of the Isle of Faces etc

    Even without going into some of the coincidences, certainly the type of people who are left to protect who Rhaegar considered the utmost priority, above himself and his father it seems to be implied

  1017. Sam,

    I do not understand this logic. Historically this happened with most savages and barbaric people in Europe to begin with.The civilising process is part of the game for the dothraki. They have to learn from others as much as they will teach others. Dany wants to break the wheel, that is to eradicate norms that do not fit to her perception of civilising process. Just the fact that they now have a female leader will be a deciding factor of change in their culture. Then the westerosi culture is not based on gender equality so that the Dothraki will not have to learn hard lessons. The weather will be an issue of course but that will be for everyone soon. So for me this repeating argument about Dany wanting to change Dothrakis is not valid. Dany has learnt different styles of leadership and she has now the knowledge, will and power to apply each one of them according to the situation she is confronted with. Hurra for this!

  1018. Wild Speculation:
    You heard it here first (MASSIVE spoiler IF true):

    You may have identified the way they will bring back

    Syrio Forel

    I have hoped for his return since he was “killed.”

    It takes posters time to warm to a return. I predicted the return of Gendry and his role in smithing Valyrian steel on four different threads and this is the first thread posters started to consider the possibility. After all, why is he a smith instead of another line of work.

    And also, Gendry was very taken by fierce little Arya, so I ship them.

  1019. QueenofThrones,

    So basically, the Dothraki will become submissive enough that Dany can control them when they get to Westeros because she is just that good.

    Okay. Cool.

  1020. The Molehill that Rides,

    Ah, but Targaryens already has fascination with wildfire. It would be a huge stretch…one that would be awfully contrived, if the Mad King started stockpiling wildfire just in case wights come knocking.

    And the hordes of wight we saw wasn’t actually part of Bran’s vision. It was happening in the present. I just don’t understand how people made the leap that the Mad King was referring to burning the wights when he said, “Burn them all!”

  1022. Shadow Shifter,

    I really don’t think it’s as much of a stretch as you seem to be implying. They are following a woman for the first time. They are willing to cross the Narrow Sea for the first time. These are all things that go against their identity and culture, yet its happening anyway.

  1023. KG,

    My friend, you truly have no understanding how common it is for a woman to bleed out during childbirth without modern medicine.

  1024. Don’t you think Daario’s ambiguous response to Dany’s speech was deliberate? And that the scene was perhaps meant not to inspire us, but to make us a little uneasy? Dany’s other rally-the-troops speeches have tended to center around righting an injustice, IIRC. This is a straight-out speech of conquest. Is Dany going to become power-mad?

  1025. Wimsey: I have a seance message from Queen Elisabeth I for you…..

    Seriously, you are confusing a royal consort queen (like Cersei) with the hereditary queen (like Daeny).

    I anticipated that response. If you read what I wrote, you will see that I stated that if a Queen cannot have children, she must then have a clear and lawful heir.

    Queen Elizabeth I had a clear and lawful heir; Daenerys Targaryen would not.

    My point stands.

  1026. Steel_Wind,

    I don’t think it’ll get around to heirs. In the novels, Dany does not like to rule, make policy, nurture an economy. Daario points out the same thing in the show: She’s a warrior, not a governor. She’s like Robert in that, actually. She likes her Dothraki, and she likes war–blood and fire. So the likelihood is she will conquer, kill the Walkers, then die a martyr.

  1027. Firannion,

    I don’t want him to be a bloodthirsty warlock. I expected the show to go into his PTSD and the implications of his resurrection, but they just pushed that aside.

  1028. Firannion: … the Waif is likely to come for her.Maybe she drifts off… and has a wolf dream?

    If this is the first time the FM realize Arya wargs and has wolf dreams, they might want to keep her and use her in spite of her disobedience. Your point raises a new dynamic. I hope she gets away with the thespian troupe to wreak havoc in Westeros.

  1029. Marlana,

    At first I thought she’d join the troupe to escape, but now it’s too obvious. She has to hide and the troupe is the first place they’d look.

    …unless this is the final Jaqen test for Arya. The blinding worked that way: It was supposedly a punishment, but it was actually a part of her training. The waif doesn’t have to know everything Jaqen’s plotting.

  1030. Ginevra,

    It is from the joke: what does it take to launch a ship? One milliHelen – that amount of beauty required to launch one ship.

  1031. maria,

    The troupe uses many costumes and disguises. Arya can change her appearance. If the FM see through disguises, Arya cannot escape permanently.

  1032. Shadow Shifter,

    I believe I addressed that as a progression of madness. There’s no telling when Bran “came to him” (if it happened)

    My point was that the wights – the wildfire – what we know of the Mad Kings demise – were among the scenes chosen for Bran’s “montage”. It’s simply speculation on WHY THOSE SCENES were chosen at all…

    (especially if it’s as cut and dried as you say)

    No skin off my nose either way. But that’s why you shouldn’t be surprised if it DOES happen…

  1033. Flayed Potatoes,

    What could be his ptsd? He said he didnt remember anything from the other side. He executed the traitors. He will be co leading the North Remembers rally. The only thing that I feel that is missing is a scene with Mel about what she said to him about tptwp. What are your suggestions about a ptsd scene and what will this contribute to his character?

  1034. Marlana,

    FM should be able to see through disguises, as disguises are their specialty. Also, the troupe is the obvious place to look for Arya. idk.

  1035. Jay Targ,

    You missed the point. No one is saying the Dothraki won’t follow her. They will follow her. No doubt about it but what is the implication of that? Dany isn’t just any woman. She’s a dragon. She’s embracing her more ruthless side. The words of her house is literally fire and blood. It’s rather naive to think that Dany will come to Westeros without even shedding a single blood and still remain morally pure or that the Dothraki will suddenly respect the Westerosi culture because Dany said so. She will become a darker character. And that’s totally fine with me.

  1036. Wimsey: Well, that’s not entirely true. For one thing, most people are going to question the “I died” part of the story.

    All Jon has to do to prove his death is show his never-healing wounds to the doubting Thomases.

  1037. First off…BENJEN!
    Now that’s out of the way, I really hope Sam’s family isn’t a one off, I really want to see more of the Tarly’s this year and the few left to come.
    I’m sure Arya remembers to stick the Waif with the pointy end.

  1038. TD,

    if the unsullied are any indication of how bad ass the armies of essos can be, the dothraki would get butchered by any army of westeros.

    Excellent point and one that Jorah mentioned in season one, the Dothraki will be owned by the knights of Westeros, but with air power.

  1039. KG,

    You completely missed Tommen and Margaery’s understanding of the value of combining their/her concern for the poor and downtrodden of the realm, and the dominant faith of that population. However little Tommen had to do with the planning stages of this, he recognized this power while talking to Margaery and the High Sparrow. Indeed, both Tommen and Margaery recognize the inherent power in the High Sparrow’s message and position, namely because he represents the will of the entire population around them. Effectively, Tommen just assured that there will never again be the kind of popular uprising that nearly killed Joffrey, Cersei, Tyrion, Sansa, etc. He and Margaery won the hearts of the people. Now was this mostly the brainchild of Margaery, working with the High Sparrow? Yes, it seems. However, Tommen is smart enough (as Tywin noticed) to realize the power of this move, even if “love” is one of his primary motivations. In effect, Tommen and Margaery just saved the city from civil war by combining the crown and faith militant in an unprecedented way, which seriously legitimized the crown in a way that we haven’t seen in the show yet. In short, he succeeded in making his reign the most popular reign in a very long time. And if you don’t see the historical parallels in this event, which combines God and Caesar in a significant way (Constantine immediately comes to mind…), I can’t help you.

    Personally, I have had no significant interest in Tommen as a character. But to argue that his decision was “moronic” missed the broader political point of what just happened. Not my fault that you can’t understand basic politics, and the dynamics of state legitimacy.

  1040. Ginevra: .And when they figure out that undead Beric blood lit up his sword, the flaming Lightbringer (Longclaw) will just add fuel to the fire that Jon is AAR, TPTWP.

    Always remembering that AA and TPtwP are the myths of only the Red God religion, not general myths of several cultures. Just because some religion makes something up does not mean it is true.

    That being said, I think the Red God religion knows some truths about how to defeat the WWs and has religionized the story in order to perpetuate it through the centuries until the crisis occurs.

    The Red God religion knows how to reanimate corpses just for the asking and how to cyborg a human

    Victarion’s unhealing hand wound exchanged to a black smoking arm that is stronger than when human

    We have seen the WWs reanimate corpses and now the result of obsidian in a human body (both human and WW) to make it cyborg.

    What theses equivalent functions between WW and Red Religion portend will be interesting to see.

  1041. KG: nincompoops.

    I haven’t seen that word in a long time, and it’s such a great word. Thank you!

  1042. ygritte:
    Ginevra,

    Then what is that thing with the gash?? It’s lying on topof the bed linens. That whole image is not bloodied bed linens. It doesn’t even look like a torso, except maybe a paritally putrified one. Except it would almost have to be a body cause Look at the angle to the arm. I knew Lyann’s screams sounded like that of a woman being fatally wounded ?

    Here is my image from the video Sue posted: https://www.dropbox.com/s/45hzy53vwz94kpx/LyannaBedSheetsOfBlood.png?dl=0.

    And here is the video right at that Lyanna point, 36 seconds in:

    I’ve circled the crease that is in the bed linens in my picture. You can click on the image to make the image bigger to see better. I have a 27″ LED-backlit screen, so I see it quite nicely. Nearly the entire image is bed linens that are linen-colored (off white) with massive amounts of blood soaking them. The darkness in the middle appears to be thicker, more clotted blood. We can see Young Ned’s right hand and wrist very clearly and probably Lyanna’s right hand, wrist, and a smidge of her arm. I see two small streaks of shininess around Lyanna’s thumb, too, but that could be glistening blood catching the light. I see some shadows surrounding Lyanna’s arm where there could possibly be a body underneath, but only at the very bottom of the pic. The rest of the image definitely has no body there: just blood-soaked bed linens. Or at least that’s what I see.

  1043. Marlana: All Jon has to do to prove his death is show his never-healing wounds to the doubting Thomases.

    Are they never healing wounds? The cut around his right eye seemed to have healed up completely during the last episode.

  1044. Marlana: Always remembering that AA and TPtwP are the myths of only the Red God religion, not general myths of several cultures.Just because some religion makes something up does not mean it is true.

    Actually, AAR and TPTWP appear to be multicultural tales that spring up in different forms across a variety of very different societies from very different religions.

    Azor Ahai was a legendary hero who wielded a burning sword called Lightbringer, according to tales from Asshai and followers of R’hllor. In some other cultures this warrior is called Hyrkoon the Hero, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser. –http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai

    It is not known from where the [PTWP] prophecy originates, as information on the prince that was promised is scant. Based on the fact that Maester Aemon mentions “a thousand years” to Samwell Tarly it should be safe to say the prince that was promised prophecy is at least 1,000 years old. According to Melisandre the prince that was promised coming was prophesied 5,000 years ago. She does not mention who made the prophecy.

    Melisandre has mentioned the prince that was promised and Azor Ahai interchangeably but she tends to use the name Azor Ahai far more often. Aemon only mentions the prince that was promised, never the name Azor Ahai.

    It appears as if the Targaryen family had been awaiting the arrival of the prince so the prophecy may come from Old Valyria, but that is conjecture. There is not as much clear information on the prince as, for example, Azor Ahai.–http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_prince_that_was_promised

  1045. Firannion: What we see in that still is a medieval attempt at a C-section in a situation where labor was not progressing,

    R read a prophecy and then dedicated himself to fulfilling that prophecy by learning how to fight, for example.

    He courted and impregnated L for that reason, imo. The child is of paramount importance, and so drastic steps were taken to save the child.

  1046. Halfman: Are they never healing wounds? The cut around his right eye seemed to have healed up completely during the last episode.

    He got that cut years ago, I believe, from the Wildling eagle-warg Orell, but it was suddenly much more pronounced at the beginning of this season. I was glad to see it going back to better consistency with previous seasons.

  1047. dothrakian raven,

    His PTSD: the permanent wounds which are constantly triggering the memory that he died (he has to live with that forever), the shock of seeing what is on the other side, the massacre at Hardhome, seeing Ygritte get killed in front of him, having to kill people he looked up to, guilt because he executed a child etc.

    We’ve literally didn’t have a good conversation about his resurrection/death and where he is at mentally. It was dismissed like a non-event.

  1048. Firannion: “Please pierce my side open
    And save my baby”

    Yup, could well be what happened!And the possible use of Dawn as a surgical tool is pretty intriguing.

    I guess we’ll know in a few weeks.

    But…..who on earth does a c-section THROUGH the person’s clothing? That’s what I don’t understand.

  1049. Pigeon: But…..who on earth does a c-section THROUGH the person’s clothing? That’s what I don’t understand.

    Well, maybe it’s just that I don’t have a high-res screen, but I don’t see fabric of any kind. I see skin.

  1050. Ginevra: Nearly the entire image is bed linens that are linen-colored (off white)

    I see nothing linen-colored or off-white in that shot whatsoever. It looks like bloody flesh on my screen. If my hypothesis is truly constructed on error caused by my not-very-fancy viewing equipment, then I withdraw it with my apologies.

  1051. Ginevra: He got that cut years ago, I believe, from the Wildling eagle-warg Orell, but it was suddenly much more pronounced at the beginning of this season.I was glad to see it going back to better consistency with previous seasons.

    Ah thank you. Well remembered.

  1052. Yes, Jon is both fire and ice, Jon is both Stark and Targaryen. Jon is the ideal blend, the balance. Jon is perfect, Jon is everything

    … except original and compelling.

  1053. I am very curious where the wildfire part of Bran’s vision came from. What was being burned?

    Is Tommen really going to let the Mountain stay a member of the Kingsguard and aren’t we a member short without taking into account Jaime’s departure after Trant’s murder?

    I personally predict that Jaquen knows that Arya is going to kill the waife in the end. In the end a face will be added to the hall. I think he will give her the power to change faces before she leaves to go and exact vengeance.

  1055. spoiler I predict that Varys’/Qyburn’s little birds will kill the High Sparrow instead of Kevan spoiler

  1056. Flayed Potatoes:
    dothrakian raven,

    His PTSD: the permanent wounds which are constantly triggering the memory that he died (he has to live with that forever), the shock of seeing what is on the other side, the massacre at Hardhome, seeing Ygritte get killed in front of him, having to kill people he looked up to, guilt because he executed a child etc.

    We’ve literally didn’t have a good conversation about his resurrection/death and where he is at mentally. It was dismissed like a non-event.

    This. I was disappointed that this wasn’t explored more.

    Also, I was looking forward to a more changed Jon Snow. Maybe a little bit darker or morally ambiguous, but apart from leaving the Night’s Watch, he hasn’t shown anything new at all. It’s still the same Jon. I think he might even be more emo now than he was before.

  1057. Firannion: I see nothing linen-colored or off-white in that shot whatsoever.It looks like bloody flesh on my screen.If my hypothesis is truly constructed on error caused by my not-very-fancy viewing equipment, then I withdraw it with my apologies.

    I wish I was seeing what others are. I, too, don’t see any linen. Even blood soaked. The arm is obvious. I think what we are seeing is a wooden pallet, with the grain made more obvious by the blood. Add to that the “bloody” hand, that looks like it’s covered in Chef Boyrdee Ravioli sauce.
    Just a weird image all together and I know the answers will come soon enough. I am one of the (very) few who really doesn’t care about the ToJ stuff (Seriously Ser Dayne, your “King” is dead, so you are protecting Lyanna from her own family?) but am interested to see how it all comes together in the end.

  1058. KG,

    When I had my daughter, I haemorrhaged and lost blood as quickly as they were pumping it into me. I had 35 pints given to me before I stabilised.

    I recall that the bed, the floor, the midwife and the doctors were covered in blood as well as myself. Its perfectly feasible to think that maybe Lyanna haemorrhaged and lost most of her blood after she gave birth.

  1060. ramses,

    Entirely possible. As I said, it’s just my opinion. Now the idea of a cesarean delivery hadn’t occurred to me. In that case, yes, it seems quite reasonable.

  1061. maria:
    Marlana,

    …unless this is the final Jaqen test for Arya. The blinding worked that way: It was supposedly a punishment, but it was actually a part of her training. The waif doesn’t have to know everything Jaqen’s plotting.

    The way the TV version has portrayed the Waif, as a total brat, one would think that Jaqen would think himself well rid of her if/when Arya takes her down!

  1062. KG:
    ramses,

    Entirely possible. As I said, it’s just my opinion.Now the idea of a cesarean delivery hadn’t occurred to me.In that case, yes, it seems quite reasonable.

    I think cesarean is the most likely option, especially as I see a long, nasty looking cut in that shot.

  1063. ygritte:
    Clob,

    I was not prepared for Tommen to take up with the militant faith and speak to his father in such a way! I thought for sure he’d be with Jamie and Mace demanding his queen be let free. Though there was word that Marg could be converted, probaly just to go along and try to help her brother I was guessing. But yeah that smug face on the HS pissed me off lol.

    Does Tommen know that Jaime is his father? I figured he saw Jaime simply as his Uncle. And until all the shit went down with Joffrey, Jaime was pretty detached from the kids. At least, from the book side of things Jaime never seemed involved with the kids at all. Not that he didn’t care but more that he cared because Cersei did.
    When it comes to the faith, I have a hard time viewing them as the “bad guys”. Yeah, the High Sparrow has an agenda. But so does Cersei and Olenna and every other noble house. Only this time, the tables have turned on House Lannister after 5 seasons of them sitting pretty and running the show in Kings Landing. I am enjoying seeing them squirm.
    Now, if the ultimate goal of the Faith Militant is truly about giving the power back to the people and promote democracy, then hell yeah. Monarchies rise and fall all the time and watching them crumble under the weight of their own ego is satisfying. Of course, I have a hard time believing that is the end all, be all goal but I can’t lie. I am loving seeing the Lannisters suffer.

  1064. Kosten,

    What could he be like, or do, that would make him more compelling to you? For many people who aren’t normally into the fantasy genre it doesn’t seem all that stale.

  1065. kells,
    “Does Tommen know that Jaime is his father? I figured he saw Jaime simply as his Uncle.”

    Doh, you’re right he does not! I had in mind that they had that dialogue for some reason. So, it must have been hard for Jamie to hold back saying “Do you know what you’re doing? I’m your father let me counsel you”.

  1067. Daenerys Targaryen is as much a child of incest as Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella Baratheon (Lannister). Dany was born to Rhaella Targaryen, the sister wife of the Mad King Aerys. As we’ve seen with Joffrey, incest can lead to cruelty.

    Daenerys believes the entire world is owed to her. This does not come out of nowhere. We clearly saw the power-hungry, stop-at-nothing ambition in her brother Viserys. Her eldest brother, Rhaegar, allegedly kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark. Her uncle father burned Rickard Stark alive in his armor and forced Brandon Stark to watch. The Targaryen’s have not always been the kindest of folk, and as we’ve seen throughout history, close inbreeding can have disastrous results.

    Dany wants to conquer Westeros, but doesn’t know anything about Westeros. She doesn’t know a whole lot about civility at all, though, as she’s never seen it. She was kept hidden her entire youth, and then sold to Khal Drogo as a young teenager. Her life experience up to this point has been hiding, living with Dothraki and conquering slaver cities. All she knows about Westeros has come from her morally corrupt brother and the loyalists in charge of her escape.

    Now, to be fair to her, she has enlisted the help of Grey Worm, Missandei, Tyrion and Varys. I’m not going to count Daario as being civil. Ser Jorah, maybe, but he started out as a traitor and fell for her beauty. She has, though, brought in council. If she continues to keep this council, the show will be boring, but her story will remain generally light-hearted. With the addition of Kinvara, a dark character to be sure, will it continue on such a path of light?

    I think not. Her story is going to get darker. How much darker? It’s hard to say. she has a lot of hate built up in her, and a clear potential for madness. In the books we may see a temporary fall for Dany, but I doubt the TV Show will treat her the same way. They write more to ratings/influence, and she’s definitely a rain maker in that regard. The majority of her fans, and quite a large swath of the overall fandom, like smiling Dany. I assume she’ll maintain her purity throughout the next 2.5 seasons on HBO. But maybe not.

  1069. Halfman: Ah thank you. Well remembered.

    I think Jon’s facial scar from Orrel’s eagle (warged into by Orrel, Season 3, Episode 9) healed long ago. I think the new scar on his face was received at Hardhome from a White Walker. I think. Yes?

  1070. dvc: train

    You don’t train to be a bloodrider, you’re chosen to be one because you’re loyal to/a best friend of the khal. Dothraki don’t go through a gauntlet of trials to become bloodriders by merit. The khal picks his bros.

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