We may not have seen much of the titular location in last night’s Game of Thrones episode, “Eastwatch,” but we did see Drogon taking a shine to Jon, Littlefinger sowing more chaos, and reunions galore – not to mention the return of a fan favorite character, Gendry. Tough choices were made as Daenerys burned the Tarlys, Tyrion sought out his brother for help, Sam left the Citadel, and Jon recruited help for a dangerous excursion beyond the Wall. It’s time to swim like Bronn and Jaime through the depths of interviews and videos, so let’s dive in!
Writer Dave Hill talks to Entertainment Weekly about a few of the important moments from last night’s episode, starting with Daenerys’ decision to execute Randyll and Dickon Tarly – which Hill defends. “At least Dany offers them a choice. Every conqueror offers the choice of ‘bend the knee or die.’ These lords disobeyed her and disrespected her in rebellion against the rightful queen,” he says. “Then she gives them a way out and they don’t take it. Her deal wasn’t even ‘I’ll let you live.’ They could have kept all their titles and land. So, yes, in one way, it’s a horrible death. On the other hand, they kind of asked for it. It’s a win-win situation and they somehow managed to find the ‘lose’ in that.”
Daenerys also faces another tough choice – letting Jon go to Eastwatch. “Once they know the Army of the Dead is marching, it’s time to put up or shut up. She knows he’s honest – and is honest to a fault,” Hill explains. “They’re both, in a way, cut from the same cloth – they’re both idealists. They both care about the people they govern, which makes them unique in Westeros. And they both feel the same weight of the crown. All that that draws her to him. He’s good hearted and would want to ‘break the wheel’ with her.” Is that a new euphemism for something else Jon may like to do? Inquiring minds want to know!
Hill also comments on Gendry’s return, saying, “We’ve always expected to bring Gendry back since we saw him rowing out. We almost brought him back in season 6 and it didn’t quite work out.” He adds, “We definitely wanted him here for the big mission, we wanted Robert Baratheon’s bastard son back into the show. It made sense that Davos would want to save this boy who’s like a surrogate son.” Hopefully Davos won’t lose this one as well.
For more commentary from Hill, check out EW.
Speaking of Gendry, Joe Dempsie has interviews with several news outlets today. Over at Making Game of Thrones, Dempsie confesses that he’s known for years that Gendry would be making a comeback. “At the end of Season 3, I was told Gendry was going to disappear for a while, but be revisited at some point. They [David Benioff and D.B. Weiss] didn’t put a timeframe on it, but I think they wanted to wait until enough time had passed that people might actually have started to forget about Gendry,” he explains. Fat chance there, Joe. “So I’ve been as in the dark as anyone else about whether Gendry would be returning and when.” He adds, “My mum goes, “You should email David Benioff just to see…” I was like “Mum I don’t think an email is going to make them go, ‘Oh sh**t, Gendry.’ So. It’s great to know people outside of my mum were interested.”
Aside from seeing Gendry return, fans have also been hoping for a reunion with Arya. What does Dempsie think about that possibility? He believes that Gendry would “love to see Arya again. He senses she’s a good soul. I wouldn’t say he’s pining, because you have to toughen up and accept there are people who are going to drift in and out of your life. I’m sure he thinks of her every now and again and wonders how she’s getting on, and whether she’s crossed more names off that list.” Oh Gendry, you have no idea.
Read the full interview at Making Game of Thrones.
The Hollywood Reporter brings us more of Dempsie’s commentary on a Gendarya reunion. “I would love to see Gendry and Arya meet again. They seemed to get on. It was a nice banter between the two of them. It would be great to revisit that.” He admits the romance angle is a bit unnerving, however. “I know from my personal experience, when we were filming the earlier seasons and people would ask about that and talk about that, I would feel slightly uncomfortable…As a result of the difference in age, I think one of the roles Gendry played in Arya’s story was as him being an older guy who sort of awakens certain feelings in Arya for the first time as she’s becoming a young woman.”
If Dempsie knows where their story is headed, he’s not saying. “Whether that means Gendry has a place in Arya’s heart or vice versa, I have no idea. I think there’s almost a sibling element, too. At that point in the story, Gendry really reminded her of her brothers and of home. That was the comfort with him,” he explains. “But it could go a number of ways. It would just be nice if they met again, wouldn’t it?” Yes. Yes it would.
Head to THR for the rest.
Dempsie also shares his thoughts on a potential endgame for Gendry with Harper’s Bazaar. “It’s interesting to consider what the political implications of Gendry being back around are. Whether we get to explore that too much in the coming episodes, we have to wait and see, but I certainly think that what you have is the last surviving Baratheon – he’s not legitimized, but he’s the only person with Baratheon blood in him,” he says. “In terms of whether he’ll end up on Iron Throne, I’m not that positive about that. He has qualities in him that would make him a good leader, but I don’t think he’s someone that would actively seek out glory and power.” Gendry certainly doesn’t lack for rival claimants, so as of now, this seems like a long shot. But who knows?
Read more at Harper’s Bazaar.
It’s not all about Gendry today; Making Game of Thrones also brings us an interview with John Bradley on Sam’s Citadel storyline. “I liked that this season he’s proactively doing things that will make a difference. It’s really the first time Sam has a role at the very heart of everything: he just wants to fight it in the only way he knows how, and use his own skills in an environment where he can bring something to the table,” he says. “He wants to let Jon know that sending him there was the right thing to do, and he’s going to reward him with results.” And possibly a claim to the Iron Throne, if Sam listens to Gilly.
Sam hasn’t had an easy time of it though. “He’s come across a group of people who are very keen on giving themselves a comfortable life and concerning themselves with trivial academia for the sake of it. Sam knows about the power of knowledge, and what a difference it can make. He thinks the maesters will share those values, but they don’t. They’re passive. And Sam doesn’t want to be that way,” Bradley admits. “His passion and interest in academia is using it as a force for good. Everything he could get out of the Citadel has become a crushing disappointment: He starts to feel he doesn’t fit in anywhere.
Bradley also shares his thoughts about Sam’s decision to leave. “He’s not being allowed to fight the battle at the Citadel. He’s not being allowed to justify Jon’s decision. He knows he’s got to get out of there and go back to Jon’s side; he’s the only one who’s going to fly the flag of knowledge in this war.” He contines, “That really is the breaking point, when Sam realizes he’s talking to a brick wall. No matter what they suggest, these people aren’t in the business of saving the world, and he is.”
Read the entire interview at Making Game of Thrones.
On “Inside the Episode,” David Benioff and D.B. Weiss give insight into Daenerys’ ultimatum to the Lannister soldiers (and no, she’s NOT mad), the tension brewing between Arya and Sansa thanks to Littlefinger, the plan to convince Cersei of the true threat to Westeros, Gendry’s return and introduction to Jon Snow, and the dynamics of the Eastwatch gang.
Peter Dinklage and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau discuss the strained relationship between the Lannister brothers and their awkward reunion.
Kit Harington, Emilia Clarke, and Iain Glen share their thoughts on that powerful Jon/Drogon moment and Jorah’s arrival at Dragonstone.
The way he (and D & D) discuss Gendry, they almost make it seem like an afterthought to bring him back rather than a main plot point…. although they could just be leading us on…
Really enjoyed the episode. Only thing that felt odd was when Tyrion/Davos arrived at KL. Thought they were leaving DS.
Every time I see a still photo of the actor who played Dickon, I have to marvel. Wearing plate armor, he really does seem to have a remarkably tiny head.
Aaaaaaaaany day now with that episode 6 title eh?
Ryan,
I don’t think he was afterthought. They said they knew after S3 that he would return at some point.
Hill said they tried to bring him back in S6, but it didn’t work.
So, did they take the Dragonglass to Eastwatch? Other than Jon and Beric, how are they going to fight WW and wights? Did they even have horses or Ghost? I don’t think I like this plan. Even if they get a wight south (we tried this before already), why would that change Cersei’s mind? She’s mad crazy and beyond convincing imo.
A small thing that seemed like a continuity. Jon says, “I thought Bran was dead” when reading the WF raven.
Sam tells Jon that Bran is alive in Oathkeeper. Daeny says Jon lost TWO brothers in Queen’s Justice and Jon nods. Why does Jon now admit to thinking Bran was dead?
I really hope they don’t kill Gendry, he is supposed to meet Arya (mainly because I want them to LoL)
Tycho Nestoris,
Maybe Jon just assumed that a paralyzed boy would be unable to survive beyond the Wall. I don’t know. It does seem odd.
And yeah, I’m not a fan of the idea that Tyrion thinks Cersei is susceptible to reason, even when presented with a wight. Seems like he should know her better than that.
All that aside, though, I did enjoy the episode!
Tycho Nestoris,
I believe they did take the dragonglass with them. It was always in the background of the episode though. For instance, when Davos takes Gendry into the mines to meet Jon, we already see men taking cases of dragonglass and loading it onto the boats. I think right before Jon and Jorah leave the camera first pans to another boat which has dragonglass. But it’s all very subtle. Also in the final scenes we see a glimpse of different men behind the hound and it looks like they are dragging something. I think it may be dragonglass but I guess we’ll find out next episode!
And I agree, this is definitely a crazy plan, but necessary in order to convince everyone that the wights and NK are real. I also agree that Cersei may choose to ignore the call even if proven to be real. That looks like the job may fall to Jaime though since she assigned him to meet with Jon/Dany & co.
mau,
Right, I just mean in terms of grand scale plans a la Gendry becoming a ruler etc. More of a side character than a main one.
That is a weird continuity error about Jon/Bran.
I too was wondering about the Dragonglass. Jorah was loading a crate onto the boat when they departed for Eastwatch that might have had the glass
I thought it was really weird they didn’t show Sam leaving with Heartsbane though.
Fierce as a Wolverine,
All that aside, though, I did enjoy the episode!
Yeah, any ep with Jon facing Drogon, Gendry killing GC, Jorah’s “I still got a chance with her” smile and “Ocean’s Eleven Beyond the wall” will be enjoyable to me. I would’ve liked Brienne included in the Eastwatch team but I can’t have it all.
Jack Bauer 24,
whew! I missed the crate loading. *exhales*
What was the coin Tyrion gave Jorah? I don’t remember the slavery giving it to him.
Another continuity error was when Tyrion was trying to persuade Randyll to bend the knee he said one house was already wiped out. I assume he meant the Tyrells. What about the Maryells? Did he forget about Dorne?
Because Sam saw Bran years ago and Jon new Bran was going north of the wall. In other words, Bran, a cripple, went north of the wall where wildlings and, more ominously the white walkers and wights, dominated the land. Jon easily assumed that several years later and still no further news of Bran from the most dangerous area in all of Westeros meant he was dead.
Regarding your thoughts about the plan to convince Cersei, I’m right there with you. It’s a ridiculous idea – one that Varys and most especially Tyrion should know is 100% absolutely pointless to even attempt. I’m left scratching my head.
Dark Sister,
I am too busy watching principles. I need to be watching the things going on *around* them. Thanks!
No one seems to realize that Gendry for all we know, is currently the leading candidate to be the third Dragonrider.
It has been established that dragons bond with those who have Targaryen blood. Daenerys obviously, and Jon most probably. Who is the third? Some theories are that Tyrion might be a Targaryen bastard, or that Bran without Targaryen blood but with warging abilities might “fly” a dragon.
However, as of now, the only other person that is know to have Targayen blood is Gendry – the origin of the Baratheons was supposedly a Targaryen bastard, the families later intermarried at times and king Robert’s grandmother was Rahelle Targarien. Might that be the reason why Gendry likes to work near furnaces so much? At any event, we know of no one at present, who has a better chance of being the third Targaryen dragonrider…
Tamwell Sarly,
Well Cersei may be a lost cause, but what about Jaime? He is the commander of the Lannister army.
So why didn’t Jon correct Dany and say he lost 3 brothers?
Just had a wierd thought. Can wights use bows and arrows? If yes then the dragons might be in trouble because those giant wights will reload faster than that scorpion thing.
That’s not a continuity error. Mentioning Dorne to Randyll Tarly wouldn’t have had much impact. Historically the Reach and Dorne have been enemies. Tyrion was only specifically referring to the Tyrells because the Tarly’s were their bannermen for centuries (until recently) and that would “hit closer to home.”
Jack Bauer 24,
Cause he only knew FOR SURE he lost two.
Plus the Hound is wielding an ax that is likely dragonglass in the trailer.
I thought Sam explained that continuity when he said that no one could have survived above the Wall like Bran – a crippled little boy – did.
And I’m thinking that at 32 seconds in, the Hound’s ax is shattering like dragonglass would. Is it just me?
And they’ve been leaving out the details like nobody’s business this season. I’m sure Sam has Heartsbane.
Hmm, because Rickon barely had any speaking lines in the entire series and therefore Jon forgot about him?
Kidding aside, you make a good point. My guess is that in his conversation with Dany, he says 2 brothers because he knows they are 100% confirmed deceased whereas he doesn’t say 3 because he “thought” Bran was dead but didn’t know for sure.
Perhaps he didn’t count the Martells because the Ellaria and the Sands wiped them out.
Jack Bauer 24,
It’s a little like schrodinger’s cat. To Jon, Bran was both alive and dead.
I am glad to see I saw Dany’s choices the same way David, Dan, and Dave had perceived
These are small questions compared to the enormity of what’s about to go down – but…
*Will Bronn be punished?* This guy has been screwed out of castles and highborn wives for a while now – then he saves Jamie for the umpteenth time & now he’s on Cersei’s shit-list. Not cool.
*How would Jorah AND Jon both reacted to Dany burning the Tarlys alive?* Jon would’ve been like: “Whaaat? My boy Sam’s dad and bro? You are sleeping on the couch tonight lady!” And Jorah: “Samwell Tarly is your boy? He’s MY boy too! That dude’s responsible for curing my grayscale. I’m so pissed I’ll join you on the couch too!” Dany: “Uh, no!”
*How would Dany have reacted to Gendry’s forthcoming “Hi, I’m a Baratheon BTW”* NOT a big Baratheon fan I’ve gathered.
Now on to Arya/Sansa/LF:
Is Arya going to put Sansa on blast to the Northern lords and push her into the waiting arms of LF so they can both feign outrage and return to the Eyrie?
Or does Peter recommend Sansa dispatching Arya for treason (like Arya JUST recommended Sansa do to Glover and the gang)?
We KNOW Arya would get out of that pickle pretty quick, but scary thought nonetheless…
Tons of story line continuity errors. Not just tiny nits either. Other people have posted them in this thread. it’s not opinion stuff either. It’s them leaving holes in the story and continuity.
Jon spending the majority of the season talking about the need for dragonglass and then totally bypassing his own people in an episode where Davos can go from Dragonstone to KL to Dragonstone again and all the way up to Eastwatch By The Sea and them bypassing WF altogether is awful.
We’re supposed to believe that he believes in Bran’s visions but doesn’t want to consult him first before heading beyond the wall? This episode had a ton of plot and continuity holes in it. Doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy it as entertainment. It just means they weren’t meticulous enough in their diligence.
Dany: “I literally watched one knight tackle another knight 10 feet away from me and they went in the water but I am not going to have my people look to see if the dude that tried to kill me is still alive.”
This is easily the most disappointing episode of the season. The rest has been TOP NOTCH.
Jon knows Bran has visions? I thought Bran told him he saw the NK/WW. Not necessarily in a vision though. Why would it matter that he bypassed WF? Dragon glass isn’t at WF
Maybe I’m overthinking this, but I can’t help wondering if Cersei’s dislike for Bronn in the show is an Easter egg for obsessive fans who know that Lena Headey and Jerome Flynn refuse to shoot scenes together due to an old romance that ended badly.
Personally, I’m hoping that one of the last scenes in the final episode of Season 8 (if not THE last scene, though that’s probably reserved for Sam writing in the Red Book of Westerosmarch or Arya sailing across the Sunset Sea) will find Tyrion and Bronn relaxing with flagons of Imp’s Delight in Tyrion’s retirement vineyard. Bronn is a cagey fellow and should be able to slip Cersei’s net and lie low until things blow over.
Firannion,
Wow… I did NOT know that trivia.
Interesting!
I could see Cersei not wanting to be in the company of a dirty cutthroat like Bronn (a holdover from the “Tyrion days”) anyways, so it worked out well for them.
I just wanted to post my feelings about tonight’s episode. The visuals as usual are wonderful to watch, and I love the acting. I am a bit confused, however. If there are thousands of walkers and wights past the wall, how are this small group of brave souls going to face this? If this was real life, and they can be changed into wights, I would say the odds are very much against it. GOT was always very realistic, even in the world of magic they pulled off realism. This wight expedition, however, …..I don’t know. I am sure it will be exciting and great tv. Also, watching Cersei’s character arc since the 1st season, is this a person who would even go along with her “enemies” as she calls athe rest of the world? Would Tyrion, at least the character I remember, would he actually try to REASON with Cersei? Again, I am not feeling it.
While I appreciate looking back at this episode, I must admit I can already barely contain the HYPE for the next one. This Avengers/A-Team/Ocean’s Seven team-up is just freaking awesome.
6 looooooong days to go.
Another question and a thought:
What the heck do you think Littlefinger was getting from the blonde commoner in secret?
I’m thinking it was a written account of what went down at The Twins. “A little girl disguised as Walder Frey killed them all”. “Winter came for House Frey”. That’ll confirm to LF that she’s a Faceless Man. In his years of hearing stories in brothels and being a Master of Coin – he’s probably heard stories about the super bad ass FM and he may have recognized the Bravosi moves Arya was showing to Brienne, but he had to get confirmation(?).
If ANYONE but Littlefinger heard a full recount of the Frey slaughter, they’d laugh it off faster than a table of Maesters at the Citadel – but this clever SOB is using that knowledge to ASSUME he’s being surveilled. “I can’t see her, so that means she’s watching me.”
It’s a horrible plan, but I think their idea isn’t to face the whole army head on (although that may be what ends up happening). Rather, they are going on a guerilla or special ops type mission where they simply want to capture a wight and then run like all hell. Also, on a side mission not really mentioned on the show, they probably want to test the dragonglass to see if it’s as effective as promised.
In any case, yes, just an awful idea by Jon, Tyrion, and the rest of Dany’s council. I’ve been “complaining” about it in many comments. There’s no logical reasoning with Cersei and Varys and especially Tyrion know that. I love the show, but I just have a hard time accepting that they truly believe “everyone can be friends” to fight the NK. I mean, Cersei would probably love it if they tried because it buys her more time. But for Tyrion and company to think it’d ever work (never mind the danger and small chance of success for the actual mission itself), doesn’t match up at all with the characters and their development.
I understand there are some legitimate issues with this episodes that people have rightfully pointed out (though I must admit I couldn’t care less)…. but I don’t really get this complaint about bypassing WF, to be honest. Why would he need to stop at Winterfell? It’s not like the army of the dead is at the gates. On the contrary, he now knows the army is on its way to Eastwatch. So it’s perfectly reasonable.
To ease your mind with a possible in-universe explanation: maybe he sent another ship with dragonglass to White Harbor and on to Winterfell. Who’s to say he didn’t split up the harvest. No need for Jon & co to accompany the glass. It’s a boring explanation. Alas, to spend entire episodes talking about and clarifying details like this would also be boring as fook.
It’s called broad shoulders.
Tycho Nestoris,
you would not happen to be a faceless man, would you? (That is my tin foil theory).
Sou,
Sou, if I could make this true I would!
Tamwell Sarly,
Varys and Tyrion both know that Cersei will always do what’s in her best interests. Right now, it’s in everyone’s best interests to band together and fight the White Walkers. The armistice is a temporary but necessary situation for all parties involved.
Tamwell Sarly,
But what about Jaime?
Sou,
It really is one of the most compelling theories on the Faceless Men there is. The symbol for finding the Faceless Men being a Braavosi-coin would be so subtle yet so obvious then, seems like a very GRRM-thing to do :).
Unfortunately, this axe looks A LOT like Gendry’s hammer. The latter’s interviews though make me hope that he has a future in GOT and will not die right after he reappeared.
Oberyn´s One Good Hand,
Bankers are killers, hmmm…
Dutch Maester,
I don’t really feel one way or the other, but I think it would’ve been smart for Jon to stop at Winterfell on his way to The Wall because he is KITN, he left for Dragonstone knowing his people weren’t particularly ok with it, and left Sansa in charge. If he’s passing by, it would be a good idea to check in and make sure everything is still ok. Especially since he’s passing right by Winterfell. However, like I said, I don’t think he SHOULD go there. It would make plenty of sense for him to do so though.
Also, he knows Bran and Arya are alive and back home. I think it would be hard to pass up an opportunity to see them, especially if he’s going on an incredibly dangerous mission beyond the Wall and might not return.
Loved the Gendry and Jon interactions. The actors have good chemistry. I hope they interact a lot next episode and mention Arya ffs!!
J+D=AA,
Well, the Baelish House was founded by a Braavosi sellsword, so I’d think Littlefinger knows full well about Faceless Men.
Mr Derp,
He would normally, but the plot doesn’t allow it because Bran is there and because D&D need to give Littlefinger something to do this season. It’s clearly too early for Jon to learn about his parentage and they also need to build some tension among the Northern lords.
What I want to know is if he sent some dragonglass shipments there.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Didn’t Littlefinger mention something about the Faceless Men in season 1? I am probably mis-remembering, but I think he said something like the Faceless Men were too expensive to hire for killing Daenerys.
Jack Bauer 24,
Jon did lose Rob & Rickon though.
Mr Derp,
I feel he would avoid WF for exactly the same reasons you mention. Can’t see him passing by, saying “howdy folks, just passing by after all this time, on my way to a commando expedition past the Wall”.
Sou,
Like I said, I don’t really feel one way or the other about it. He can stop by or not for all I care. I was pointing out that there are justifiable reasons for Jon to stop by Winterfell on his way North of the Wall, just as there are reasons for him to skip it.
Tamwell Sarly,
Yep, weird plan, still wouldn’t you love watching a wight in the Hall of the Iron Throne? Like, Ice Zombie, please meet Mountain Zombie? Like…Zombiebowl??
Tycho Nestoris,
Maybe the only way Cersei can be convinced is if the wight is someone she knew. That could be bad news for the Hound.
Young Dragon,
But would Cersei see it that way? For all we know, she might be delusional enough to think she can control them like she controls the zombie Mountain. Plus, I’m not clear on what army Dany thinks Cersei has to offer. I’m sure she has an army protecting the capital, but she’s not going to send THEM. And Dany killed or turned the army Jaime was leading. I assume the Tyrell’s large army is dead (or became part of Taryl’s army, which was turned or kille). Cersei doesn’t control the vail or the north — really, who’s left that her assistance is so necessary? I don’t understand this plan any more than Tyrion’s other dumb plans.
I think you underestimate Cersei. Yes, she will always do what she perceives as her best interests. But I can’t fathom a situation whereby she would ever conclude that teaming up with her sworn enemies (especially one that’s invading and she’s currently at war with) fits that definition…no matter what. Like I said, she may fake it in order to buy time. That said, it’s not about what Cersei should or shouldn’t do. It’s about Varys, but primarily Tyrion thinking it’s a good idea or that it might work. Tyrion knows Cersei better than anyone aside from Jaime. He knows she doesn’t think rationally and that she can’t be trusted. He should know that his presence on Dany’s side alone would likely mean Cersei would irrationally reject any notion of a cease fire even if for the greater good. I mean, Cersei has wanted Tyrion dead from pretty much the time he was born. She’s never been rationale about that and he knows it. So why would he conclude she’d be rationale (and trustworthy about an armistice) now?
Perhaps Jaime could be convinced via this plan, but he’s not calling the shots…Cersei is.
Tamwell Sarly,
Again, Cersei is not a commander of the Lannister army.
Without Jaime Cersei has no one to lead her army. No one that she can trust.
mau,
That’s a sane person talking though. If Cersei goes all “mad queen” then she won’t think rationally anymore.
It would be entertaining for sure!
Gendry’s War Hammer is cool, but seems made for someone with the frame of the Hound or his brother. For him expected something a little sleeker.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Hmmm… so that kind of makes me feel like he’s totally on to what she is and he’s smart enough to realize she’s in every shadow. I mean it’s OBVIOUS he’s leading her by the nose, but boy he figured her out quickly.
Now, is this a “kill Arya” plan -or- a “leave with Sansa” plan?
I guess I’ll have to wait & see.
We’ve all agreed that time doesn’t matter and hasn’t mattered for seasons now. Then why not write in that he went to Winterfell to bring other people with him? He saw what they did to a massive amount of Wildlings. It came off as really poorly written when you couple in Tyrion’s 100% awful plan to convince Cersei of WWs.
I can’t decide whose awful plans are more poorly written: Petyr’s or Tyrion’s. It’s a toss up after the, “Hey guys, Go north of the wall, capture a WW and then head all the way back to KL and show it to my sister”. So if all the urgency about actually having armies fight the WW’s is so paramount to everything else, then why did Jon not go to WF to get more men to ensure he succeeds?
Once or twice a season this show tosses up a stinker. Hopefully this is the only time it happens this season. It’s understandable. Nothing is perfect.
What Lannister army? There isn’t much left. Jaime is only in charge because Cersei made him in charge (even if it was an obvious choice), just like she named Euron “admiral” or her navy.
Again, Cersei is in charge. Jaime has done all of her bidding thus far for years despite some really good reasons not to. He’ll be even more loyal now that she’s expecting. And, once again, from Tyrion’s perspective, he knows all of this. With all of the personal history in that family, he shouldn’t be so naive.
I agree. Cersei would willingly let the entire world be destroyed and taken over by the dead, then to risk an outcome where another woman sits on the iron throne.
Winterfell is not on the way from Dragonstone to Eastwatch. Eastwatch is near the sea, we saw that in Hardhome.
To go to Winterfell you have to go by land.
We don’t know that.
And I don’t think that Jaime will be loyal to Cersei is she decides to destroy the world.
But it is not just about Cersei and Euron. It is about every lord in the South.
Logistically speaking, the northbound party would stop anyplace it could get warm shelter for the night and a meal. Winter is here and travel would be difficult in the extreme anywhere above the Neck. (In the books, Stannis lost half or more of his army before they even got to Winterfell, due to unrelenting blizzard conditions. And considerable time has elapsed since then.) Places to get out of the weather and restock supplies would be few and far between in the thinly populated North. It makes no sense that the expedition would give Winterfell a pass – especially since the Kingsroad goes right by it.
The only reason I could see that they might not would be if they decided to sail up the east branch of the White Knife – which flows further north, closer to the Wall – instead of taking the western tributary that flows out of the Wolfswood, a little south of Winterfell. The northern stretches of the White Knife have, however, been known to freeze over during harsh winters, so traveling via the Kingsroad ASAP might prove easier – relatively speaking. At least it would get them a night out of the wind and a bellyful of stew and ale.
Edit: Never mind – I forgot that they were heading directly to Eastwatch (by sea, which wouldn’t yet be frozen) rather than via Castle Black.
Then Jaime will kill her.
Firannion,
I was thinking about the ice in the water. Did we get any shots of the bay (other than credits). Was it frozen?
I would have liked Jon to head to WF to debrief and brainstorm with Bran. Maybe grab Brienne for the Eastwatch mission? I think D&D are saving Jon’s meeting with Bran for the last ep or season 8. By then, Gilly may have hand delivered the message to all the realm😉
Mr Derp,
Yeah, I could swear I heard that hiring Faceless Men was costly – so it kind of makes me wonder how the second fiddle actress girl could afford to have that other actress Lady Crane killed(?). Probably never know.
And why the heck was Jaqen in KL? I think the Many Faced God (AKA Bran) told him to seek out Arya/Arry.
Tamwell Sarly,
I can see why you would think Book Cersei is irrational, but Show Cersei is different. Her hatred of Tyrion may be a little irrational, but other than that, I can understand every action she has taken. Setting the Faith Militant after the Tyrells after they try to manipulate Tommen against her. Blowing up the Sept to take out her enemies and so she wouldn’t be found guilty at her trial. Besides, the hunt isn’t only about convincing Cersei, but Danerys too. Danerys isn’t a true believer, not yet. She’s only entertained the possibility, but that’s not enough for her to march her armies in the complete opposite direction of the throne that she’s strived for since the end of season 1. You say that Cersei can’t be trusted, but what could she possibly do to betray them?
If my chronic migraines appeared in the form of Gendry holding that hammer, they’d be worth it. *old school awooooga!!!*
So…how does one capture a wight? Here, put on these handcuffs and don’t bite me? Wight in a Box? Duct tape?
Can you imagine if they catch one and then it just keels over a dies *again* before getting to King’s Landing? At that point I think Jon would just keep heading south and not look back. Lol.
We do know that about the Lannister army. That’s why Cersei is desperate to higher the Golden Company. The Lannister army already took heavy losses against Robb Stark and that’s one of the reasons they so badly needed the Tyrell’s – for their troops (aside from food and financing). After the Field of Fire 2.0 and the slaughter of the skeleton garrison at Casterley Rock, there isn’t much of a Lannister army left aside from what’s garrisoned at KL and the scattered, fragmented troops patrolling the riverlands. Even if that number was in the tens of thousands, which it probably isn’t, that’s still no match for what Dany has…that’s what Jaime was trying to tell Cersei.
You could be right about Jaime finally no longer being loyal to Cersei if she’s ok with destroying the world, but, as I’ve pointed out, he’s still by her side after countless reason to not be. Yeah, sure, he killed the Mad King to protect KL…but he wasn’t in love with the Mad King.
Don’t think Brienne would have gone – she’s sworn to protect Sansa (and Arya). Not unless Sansa would have commanded her to, but I doubt Sansa would do that with Littlegfinger so close by.
She wanted to hire Golden Company even before the battle. She wants more man. It’s natural.
We know from S6 that the Lannisters still have the biggest army in Westeros.
Yeah, but that’s the reason why the show doesn’t want to tell us how many man they have lost in that battle. We don’t know.
True. But it can be useful against the WW.
I think it is clear that this season is really building up their break-up.
I liked the episode but some things really bugged me, i’m not buying the justification of Dany’s actions, she didn’t need to kill the Tarly’s, at least not Dickon, who just wanted to be loyal to his father. She could quite clearly see that. She is supposed to be better than her father and Cersei, but then she does exactly what Cersei told them she would. Well done Dany.
I also don’t feel the relationship between her and Jon, all those longing looks in this episode were completely unearned imo. Dany saying that she hadn’t given Jon permission to leave was just cringe, she sounded like a silly love struck girl, and i’m not into it, I don’t see how their stilted and repetitive conversations led to that.
I guess I just didn’t like the writing for Dany in this episode, it felt all over the place. Saying she’s come to save the people, she doesn’t want to murder and two seconds later the Tarly’s are toast.
I’ve never read the books, so my opinion is based entirely on the show. I don’t know if I can agree that Cersei has acted rationally outside of Tyrion. You cite blowing up the Sept as an example, but even Olenna admitted Cersei was so extreme (and evil) that even she couldn’t have imagined such a drastic measure. In any case, her having rational thought or not is subjective in this case to the viewer. And where you think she’s on the rational side, I think she’s not (even her acting in her perceived best interests isn’t necessarily rationale). But once again, I’m speaking from Tyrion’s point-of-view in regards to why it is a poor plan. Tyrion knows Cersei is completely irrational and he’s even said so pretty much to her face (while at the same time acknowledging her love for her children was genuine).
And what could Cersei do to betray an armistice or pact? Well, first, as Dany’s council pointed out in the episode, what’s to stop her from killing everyone who shows up in KL with the wight? But there are other ways…such as, Cersei agrees to help in the North and sends what little remaining soldiers she has. Then she hires the Golden Company and takes out the weakly defended Dany strongholds like Dragonstone so that the reduced number of Dothraki’s returning after the war with the NK have no chance.
Pigeon,
Wasn’t one of the magnificent seven carrying a bunch of rope? apparently, they’re going to lasso their evidence 🙂
Yes, she wanted the Golden Company before the battle but that’s because she knew they were already outnumbered to begin with.
We do? I must have missed that. Please remind me. The Tyrells always had one of the biggest armies in Westeros before the War of the 5 Kings and they’d barely been in any action prior to this season. The Dornish army should have been (and still currently) at full strength even if they’ve now been written out plot wise. I can’t possibly see how the Lannisters’ could have had the biggest army unless any such reference in the show was including the Tyrell allies in that count.
Yes, there are no hard numbers and it is rather vague. But, I think it’s fair to deduce they have been pretty decimated especially with Jaime’s remarks to Cersei upon returning to KL.
I agree that we’ve been given many instances that point to his support for her eroding. But each time it seems he comes back just as strong to her. I mean, yes, there’s the prophecy that might come into play…but they haven’t really been stressing that much and that prophecy is rather cryptic anyway. I think we’ve seen just as many, if not more, signs this season that Tyrion is having doubts about Dany and the way she is doing things.
Firannion,
Ahhhh, That is what was throwing him off….
Like others have pointed out, there was a whole lot wrong with this episode but I’m already mentally preparing myself for a ridiculously cliched and action-heavy fantasy finale, so I’m not quite as annoyed as I was when I first heard about the cartooney wight hunt project.
This thing with characters like Sam, Arya or Bran undertaking some important training only to drop out after not even a full season is really stupid though.
And clearly, no one in Westeros really reads books. They just write tons of them to keep in pretty libraries. A mountain of dragonglass, a cure for greyscale and the royal line of succession just waiting for some random literate character acquainted with a protagonist to happen upon them. Yeah, sure.
Also, Sam’s very conveniently broken off his training (and vows) just as his brother and dad got roasted. I’ve said it before: Lord of Highgarden.
I do ship Jondry though. That interaction almost made Jon feel like a real character for a second rather than Santa Maria Sue Jon de Stargaryen, savior of mankind and rightful king of the seven kingdoms, fire and ice personified, deadbeat underdog trope incarnate.
At this point the Lannisters are all that’s still keeping some of that original GoT charm alive. Clock’s ticking though.
When was he getting something from a blonde commoner?
Why doesn’t everyone go to the island of Naath or Assisi? Can the WW get there?
Tamwell Sarly,
A ginger boy can dream, no?
http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Brienne-of-Tarth-and-Tormund-Giantsbane.gif
Because as far as Jon knows Rickon and Robb are the only two that are confirmed dead.
As far as Bran he was told by Sam he was alive and going beyond the wall which is dangerous territory. That was years ago, he has not heard any news from Bran so in Jon’s mind he could be dead but unsure.
makes sense?
When people go missing it’s okay to start thinking they’re probably dead but until you hear or see the body than you can’t count them out as dead yet.
King Podrick,
i guess, still not clear why he agreed with Daeny only to admit he didn’t a couple eps later.
I just stumbled upon this gem. Here’s another “trailer” for next week’s episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLSx_ckJeXI
😂😂😂
Jack Bauer 24,
At the beginning of the Arya/Littlefinger cat and mouse sequence, she was whispering something to him. He paid her off with a coin.
If you look at a map of Westeros, you will see that the fastest way to go to Eastwatch By The Sea is by sea. No contest. They would have sailed directly up north from Dragonstone. There was no time to waste detouring to Winterfell (which is very far inland, quite a bit south and west of Eastwatch) or Castle Black (which is also inland and west of it). They knew the most imminent threat was to Eastwatch, so that’s where they went.
The dialogue in the Dragonstone meeting where they decided to get a wight to show proof emphasized that it was Jaime they needed to convince most, because he was the only one Cersei would listen to. Perhaps they were still underestimating Cersei’s desire to win at all costs, but I can understand Tyrion believing that she still has a sense of self-preservation and might be persuadable if the proof is right in front of her. I get the impression it was still a Hail Mary, though. They seemed under no illusion that they were guaranteed success by pursuing this mission, but it was worth a shot. The only other options being an extended war on multiple fronts (WW and Cersei) or going full dragon and torching Kingslanding which would involve heavy civilian casualties.
Randall Tarly refused to take the Black. It was his choice. Dickon chose to stand with his father and die. It was his choice. Both were grown men. Both were oathbreaking traitors. I loved that they were humanized in those last sad moments, holding each other, but it was how they chose to go out.
Just a quick nitpick but dragonglass is not a metal. It needs to be knapped like flint or obsidian, not forged. I doubt Gendry knows how to do that. However, he might be needed to forge more Valyrian steel eventually, if they figure out how to make it. Presumably he could also learn knapping, but it’s far more delicate work than forging and tempering steel weapons and armor.
Was there anyone else who didn’t cheer at all when Gendry took out the two Kingslanding guards? It was horribly brutal and not exactly self defense, although I am sure it eventually would have turned into a fight. I guess it just was very jarring to me. Characters like the Hound and Arya get cheered on for their bloodthirsty qualities and yet people freak out when Dany coldly dispenses justice to two traitors who refused to accept her conditional offer of pardon. I wonder if they also freaked out when Jon executed Janos Slynt or hanged Olly and the others, or Stannis burned Mance, or when Jaime killed Olenna (as a consequence of rebelling against the crown).
Dark Sister,
Thanks for that 😄😄
Why a suicidal mission hunting a dead and not something much simpler? Like:
On the other side few meters from the wall, kill someone locked in a cage and wait for him come back.
Easy …
My God! Here let’s try this. when Danny said “You lost two brothers yourself”
Jon “Nods” he’s not lying. it’s true. He knows he lost two brothers.
He does not know Bran is dead or alive which means he cannot confirm or deny he lost Bran for sure. Last he heard he was going beyond the wall so the thought of someone missing after years it’s a mix feeling. You either think their dead one day of you continue to have hope thinking they might be alive. It’s not difficult to understand.
So when he gets the raven Jon said “I thought Arya was dead, I thought Bran was dead” IN HIS MIND ONLY! Not actual dead until they’re really confirm dead.
When my mother does not hear from me in a long time she thinks I’m dead. It does not actually mean I’m dead unless she hears otherwise. Got it?
Syriema,
We learn from Hardhome that the White Walkers are the ones who raise the dead. It’s not enough simply to die north of the Wall. A White Walker needs to be present.
King Podrick,
Jeez Pod. I wasn’t trying to bother you. I just see it differently.
Lol this isn’t the Walking Dead when someone dies they get reanimated out of thin air. In Westeros they get reanimated by the Others/White Walkers and Night King.
So if they get reanimated meters away it means the Night King is close by with his army so it’ll be actually too late to show proof on time.
I like the cage idea but that’s messed up to kill someone like that but yea, it wouldn’t work haha
J+D=AA,
Maybe he’s recruiting to replace Roz (or whatever her name was)
Tamwell Sarly,
My apologies. I shouldn’t have assumed you read the books. I get what you’re saying. I think they could have done a better job in selling the idea, and it certainly didn’t help that this was probably the most rushed episode of the series. But the Night’s Watch have been trying to warn the Seven Kingdoms about the White Walker threat since season 2. Nobody is listening, nobody is taking the threat seriously. The plan isn’t good, but it’s the best plan they have. Dany has made it perfectly clear that she won’t march North until either Cersei is dethroned, which could take awhile, or Cersei agrees to a temporary truce as they fight the real enemy. Tyrion knows his sister can’t be trusted, but if there was anything that could make Cersei cooperate, it’s the ever approaching Apocalypse. Plus, Tyrion is banking on the fact that Jaime could make Cersei see reason.
Ah okay sorry. Just trying to help you understand. I can see how it might seem confusing watching those scenes but they’re quite clear to me. Perhaps they coulda just have Jon say “yeah, I lost two, the third I haven’t heard from in years so I’m not so sure”
But Jon will be Jon 🙂
Interesting that you mention Jon and Beric, the two R’hllor-revived fighters in the group. Jon hasn’t been north of the wall to face wight or WW since being rezzed by Mel. I wonder if their R’hllor-approved resurgence has any obvious advantages when facing the WWs? Will they be shielded in any way? Probably not, but just a thought.
I wonder what Thoros brings to the battle? Is he only another swordsman with custom obsidian daggers/spears or can he bring R’hllor-inspired firebolts to the cause?
Usually when there’s 2 episodes left they do a “only 2 episodes left” promo. How come they only had an episode 6 promo after Eastwatch?
I noticed that too, and at first was kind of annoyed because we don’t need to cloud the story with meaningless characters, as much as we like them.
However, I too thought, “Hmm, this seems a bit like a feint.” Like they don’t want us speculating too much about the role a Baratheon may yet still play.
Slightly off topic: episode 4, why did Arya ask the guards “which” Lady Stark? I mean, from my count, there was only Catelyn, Sansa and Arya, and Talisa. Two are dead, leaving only Arya and Sansa. So if Arya’s asking the question, the answer could only be Sansa is Lady Stark.
That was the only odd part about her return….sort of like testing an entity if it’s artificial intelligence, or not. This was a fail, I think.
What about Jorah?
Tycho Nestoris,
I think it’s cuz Sam told Jon that he met Bran headed north of the wall. But a lot of time has passed without hearing anything from Bran, so I guess Jon assumed that a crippled boy couldn’t survive out there and must be dead.
Seeing the Tarlys makes me think , they have distinctive armor , tho plain, but I can’t remember seeing ‘Tarly Men’ . The show has put identifying uniforms on each group the Loot-Train seemed to be all Lannister costumes?
He could raise some from the dead, right? Perchance.
Aww, I thought when you made that assumption before last night’s episode that this shorter season where we didn’t even get a real description before Episode 5 might be different in that respect, too. I’m sad we didn’t have it, yes.
King Podrick,
Daeny: “we’ve both lost brothers”
solves it for me
Ginevra,
I think I’ve seen a still of the packed wagon leaving the Citadel and it shows the sack cloth covered bundle that Sam wrapped Heartsnane in earlier behind his seat- so it’s coming with him
Yeah, I was looking for the ‘Striding Huntsman’ sigil, but not even Randyll and Dickon seemed to be wearing it.
I knew I’d get that “doh!” response. My take is similar to the Hound’s. Why Beric? I don’t believe Thoros can raise just anybody. He’s a vehicle for R’hllor’s initiatives. I’m asking about other possible advantages. Plus, both Beric and Jon have stated that they don’t want to be revived anymore. That won’t happen, imho.
Jack Bauer 24,
because of grey scale?
Or Pycelle
Anon,
I wondered about that too.
Maybe she was testing them. If they’d said Lady Arya for instance, she’d know something was up.
I’m just guessing, really, but I assume she was just being extra careful.
That’s interesting didn’t think of that. So if one of our “main” characters die next week Thoros can bring them back?
I thought you meant who else can fight
Jack Bauer 24,
I singled out Jon because of longclaw and resurrection; Beric for fire sword and resurrection.
I was under the impression they left the dragonglass, in which case Jorah (and Gendry and Sandor and Tormund and Thoros) wouldn’t have effective weapons. Looks like they brought it though.
I’m still trying to understand how they plan to “capture” a wight in the first place. They don’t seem to be wandering around aimlessly by themselves to snatch up. They are ALL in the huge army of the dead. So how do grab one without being totally wiped out by the rest? Jon & Co. would have to know this already.
“Aaaaaaaaany day now with that episode 6 title eh?”
It’s a setup for an upcoming spinoff series. Littlefinger and The Imp decide Westeros needs another Inn, and start a combination tavern and brothel on the Kingsroad. Both establishment and episode will be called “God of Tits and Wine.”
Ginevra,
If they all have this whizbang dragonglass, then why are they running for their lives? I am not convinced of the soundness of the plan, nor it’s execution.
asoiaf fan,
When we who were spoiled saw the leak back in 2016 about the wight hunt the consensus was pretty much that it indeed sounded dumb. People couldn’t believe there wouldn’t be better reasons leading up to the decision. But I don’t remember it being clear who suggested, I think we assumed it was Jon. Now, we know it’s Tyrion. His plans aren’t working out very well so far. Hopefully this one proves worthwhile.
thisgirlhasnoname,
Hmm Gendry could very well end up wanting the throne. He seems rather ambitious, and quite proud to announce himself as Robert’s son. Maaaybe at the end we will see history repeat itself with Jon and Gendry being like their fathers Robert and Ned helping to overthrow mad king (now a mad queen), only because Jon doesn’t want the throne, like Ned had chance but didn’t take it, he gives it up to the Baratheon bastard.
Young Dragon,
Why is Dany so quick to believe Bran’s message about the Night King marching towards Eastwatch? She has not met Bran and doesn’t know of his powers, so why propose an armistice based on the words of a boy she hasn’t even met? Yes, she has seen the paintings of the white walkers in the cave, but that did not sway her to abandon her quest for the Iron throne. So why be swayed now? I think the writer of this episode did a terrible job explaining this.
OK so the white walker army is very slow. Jon would rather focus on them “we have no time for this blah blah” but hello, like yes, you do just go kick out the queen with dragons or an assasin boom then focus on the dead army who has not even croseed the wall yet! Every time I try to type words right now the website drags me down to the ad playing below 🙁
Jack Bauer 24,
I don’t think there is a continuity error.
When Sam tells Jon about Bran being alive and **heading further north**, it happened a whiiiiile ago. Jon has all the more reasons to think he must be dead since the last time someone saw him alive (Sam in Oathkeeper episode). Without any news from someone heading further north than the Wall, after all this time, and all the danger there is to it (the cold, the wights, etc) there’s a good chance that person is dead. BUT AT THE SAME TIME he has no proof of it AND there might still be a chance. So yes he can consider that he has two dead brothers – Rob and Rickon – or three until further notice…
There’s no continuity error then, is there ? Not really.
I’m confused. Did Davos not join the Wight Party?
Miss Stark,
No he didn’t. Remember he said will b of no use in that regard, not a fighter.
No, he stayed at Eastwatch. Said he’d be a liability to the expedition, and Tormund in his ever sensitive nature agreed. Lol.
I have to say, when I read spoilers of the wight catching mission I prayed it would be wrong, because it just genuinely sounded so bad on paper.
In reality it sounds just as bad, and so rushed and nonsensical.
Shouldn’t Jon KNOW better? He really thinks a random wight will be wandering around to be captured? After his experience at Hardhome you would think he would think twice about venturing to Eastwatch with 8 people and assuming he can get in and out quick.
Pigeon,
That’s right. For some reason, I had it in my head he went anyway. Well, that’s a relief! I’m a little scared for our hunting party.
Nadia,
Yes, Jon should know better. But Jon isn’t actually always acting in character this season. For instance, he normally wouldn’t say “I am a king” yet he did at the war room. Even Dany subtly changes from one episode to the next. I keep remembering now a quote from one of the actors during pre season interviews that said this season seems like a different show in a way and unlike previous seasons this year they were just told to basically shut up and say the lines as is, lol.
ygritte,
Yes, it really looks like Gendry has his own agenda. Maybe, so far he simply wants to prove his worth to Jon to get his approval for pleading his suit with Arya but it may develop ito something more eventually. One way or another Gendry (and the mob of Flee-Bottom) should play a pivotal role in Cersei’s demise: Mel said that his blood will make kings rise and fall.
However, I’m more intreagued by Davos. Somehow I doubt that he brought Gedry to team-Jon only because he didn’t wanted the lad to become one of the causalities of the KL potential siege. From what we saw it really looks like Davos is searching for an alternative claimant to the throne – he hates Daenerys etc. Though on the other hand it may be just a clumsy writing: this episode indeed failed to motivate the wight hunt and many other things were off as well, so it’s risky to make guesses based on that.
No, Jon didn’t indicate how many brothers he lost. Dany said, “They’re both gone now (her brothers). You’ve lost YOUR brothers, too?” Then, Jon nodded. So, it could be two, it could be three, he didn’t know for sure. What he knew at that point was he’d lost more than 1 brother.
Dany didn’t say “Your brothers”, she said “two brothers”.
Yeah, but remember Jon has been on the other side of the wall and knows what’s coming. It would not be farfetched to think that Bran died when you consider he’s travelling with a small group, himself being a cripple facing the dead who move fast as hell…!
Jack Bauer 24,
Nope. She asked, “You lost your brothers as well?”
You may re-watch the scene, if you want.
Jack Bauer 24,
Beause Tyrion is not the freaking maester who counted the steps and windows of the Citadel! He mentioned the house that was most significabt to Tarly: the one he was a bannerman of, the one he betrayed.
Jack Bauer 24,
Oberyn has 5 more daughters. I do think he told Cersei in season 4. But I doubt they’ll be introduced in the show.
Omg people get so hung up on small details.Yes they took the dragonglass.Jorah was putting a box on the boat.Yes Dany said two brothers and Jon agreed because he knows for sure they are dead.He didn’t know for sure Bran was dead but obviously he still thought he was.No there is no reason for him to stop at Winterfell.He doesn’t have time to loose.Winterfell is not in crisis .He trusts Sansa to keep everything in check even though the lords want him to read lulabys and put them to bed lol.No they can’t kill someone and just wait for it to come back.It doesn’t work that way.They know it’s gonna be hard to capture one but it’s doable.Yes Tyrion meant the Tyrells cause that’s the only great house wiped out by the Cersei-Dany war.That said maybe it’s because I read the outline but the script for this week could have made some things clearer.Like the fact that they need the truce or Cersei will stab them in the back etc.
I did rewatch it with the HBO subtitles and they have it as “You lost two brothers as well.” So yeah….continuity error.
Thank you!
I’m definitely confused about how the magic works for the Wall. It would be interesting if Jon had an issue coming back through because of his resurrected status, but I doubt they’d go in that direction.
Well, Hodors Bastard doesn’t seem to think so. And yet, I could see him potentially bringing back the Hound. I’d give the Hound a 10% chance or better of being brought back if he dies while Thoros lives. Something makes me think that the Red God would want to shine his light on that one. D&D don’t seem to want to overdo the whole resurrection thing lest it cheapen our savior’s resurrection. So we better call this one a tinfoil.
I’d give Jon 100% chance of coming back if he dies, so I’m 99% sure he won’t die.
Jesus H Christ !! The answer to that is pretty simple. Its not part of the story!
The whole thing is building up to the battle/war with the White Walkers and the wights and to remove them once and for all. To face them and not for ‘everyone’ to escape to the islands of Naath and Assisi.
I would have thought that even you realize this? Post something sensible for a change instead of string of irrelevant questions i.e. – Where’s Ghost? – Did Sam take Heartsbane when he left the Citadel? – So why didn’t Jon correct Dany and say he lost 3 brothers? What about Jorah? etc, etc. – and you won’t get the flak from me and others on this website!
Oh, yeah. This is a dumbass plan. Mostly because I don’t believe that a wight will do anything to change Cersei’s mind one way or the other. She has no compassion for the lives of her people, and seeing one captive wight isn’t going to communicate to her how much her own life is in danger. I have no idea WTF happened to Tyrion this season, but I think he’s been dropped on his head or something.
Even if I had a sleigh full of dragonglass and all the dragonglass on my body I could carry, if 400,000 wights came charging at me, I’d drop the dragonglass and run. The only thing that will stop 400,000 wights is fire. Dragonfire.
Yeah, I’m sure that Benjen’s magic was more similar to the WW magic because of the dragonglass used. Beric and Jon were raised by prayer and R’hllor.
Jack Bauer 24,
This has been addressed ad nauseum in these threads lately.
Jon KNEW 2 brothers were dead.
He ASSUMED Bran was dead, but did not KNOW he was dead, so he wasn’t included in the two brothers line.
Get it?
Yeah but they are bastards and technically Sands not Martells.
The way they travel on the show they could have gotten away with it (except people complaining about the fast travel). He didn’t really pass right by though. He could have but they would have had to adjust their ship path about 500 miles into the Bite to White Harbor and then travel an estimated ~350 miles inland to Winterfell. Then either backtrack or ride over land another 650-700 miles to Eastwatch in the bitter cold.
————————-
I understand people wanting him to go through Winterfell. There were reasons for him to do so; reunite with Arya and Bran, calm things down with the Lords and to take more men with him. I wouldn’t call it “bad writing” for them to tell the story in an alternate manner than others may. Bad ideas that the characters might have doesn’t mean bad writing. If everything happened exactly how viewers want it to or expect it to they get another criticism… “Predictable.”
They’re trying to groom storylines to fit together. They’ve created a storyline for the Starks at Winterfell to give them purpose. Having Jon pop back in right in the middle changes that dynamic and what they’re trying to achieve with them. I don’t think they want to do a battle with larger numbers of living against the dead either. It’s suppose to be a rather covert mission that will apparently become more dangerous than expected. I’m guessing what they’ll achieve with the scene is a reminder of the massive threat and revitalize the fear.
Tyrion and Bronn,, wtf, no bromance at all??? And I thought the Jamie + Tyrion interaction was kind of weak. Should have been done much better.
https://twitter.com/joedempsie/status/897207143484592129 😜
Clob,
Yea, from a selfish point of view, it would’ve been nice for Jon to stop at Winterhell, but I agree that it isnt necessary and there’s no time right now. Besides, if they head straight for Eastwatch then they really wouldn’t be passing Winterhell anyway. My mind was more focused on the path to Castle Black rather than Eastwatch.
Can you imagine the hypothetical conversation that Jon and Arya would have upon their reunion? At some point, Jon would have to mention that he formed a Band of Brothers that included Beric, Thoros, The Hound and Gendry to go north of the wall! Think of Arya’s double-take…her concept of reality would suffer a serious blow…. 🙂
Heck, I want to see Lyanna Mormont’s reaction when/if she hears that Jorah is part of that magnificent seven as well!
I love this show but as with many other fans I had two big issues with this episode:
Jaime/Bronn escape = stupid
Wight capture plan = stupid
D&D could have achieved the same result with a much more interesting story line, as follows:
– Jaime/Bronn captured
– Dany wants to fry them both, but Bronn agrees to defect (Tyrion vouches) and Tyrion brokers a deal to keep Jaime hostage at DS
– Once back at DS, with the news from Bran, they decide to take Jaime on the mission to Eastwatch to see the Army of the Dead (not capture one)
– Afterwards, Jaime goes to KL to convince Cersei
And the cherry on the cake, obvious dropped ball from D&D, would be to have Brienne go on the mission too to create a bizarre love triangle with Jaime/Tormund 😉
I’ve been reading this site for several years, but this is my first comment. I noticed something no one else seems to have mentioned here (or anywhere else I’ve looked so far). Littlefinger’s scroll hiding place is a callback to a conversation between Sansa and Tyrion in S3 E10, “Mhysa,” when Sansa suggests that she and Tyrion should “sheep shift” some rando Ser’s bed. Either A: it’s a coincidence and I’m overthinking it; B: it was a sub-conscious callback by a writer who has every scene in the show’s history wandering about in his brain; or C: it means something. If C, I think it might tip Arya off to Littlefinger’s scheme: one of his spies overheard the conversation years ago, and he chose that hiding place because he knew Arya would look there. Thoughts?
This is a bit random but does anyone else think that what Jon’s Suicide Squad is hauling out with them on that sled IS a box/cage? To hold the captured wight in?
That is a wonderful little callback. Quite interesting, especially since it was initiated by Sansa about Arya’s youthful tricks. Thx! I have no idea if S & A are setting up LF or vice-versa but that little tidbit is worth considering for either scenario. But one thing is for sure though…”Anyone named Desmond Crakehall must be a pervert.” 😉
Mrs. Podrick Payne …
Yes, I think that more likely than it being a box of dragonglass weapons. My simple thought is if they had a bunch of great weapons, why are they running so fast? I cannot imagine how terrifying Tormund, Podrick, and the Hound might be as resurrected wights, but I would run like hell too!
To get a wight easier, they could have just taken a body beyond the wall and it would have become a wight. Interesting that they didn’t think of that.
I agree with the “stupid” stuff….just don’t give GRRM any ideas with your other thoughts! 🙂
Regardless of fun options ahead for us, it’s going to be quite entertaining watching Cersei implode…but who will go down with her?
If I had my goofy druthers, Dany and Big D would fly north for a recon daytrip, check out the enemy from the air, then dive down to grab a wight or two (or a wighted giant) with Big D’s claws and fly back. Mission accomplished. (However, if NK is a master warg….yikes! Game over.)
Anyone think this White Hunt idea is coming from GRRM at least the concept rather than the detail?