Still craving that Game of Thrones content? We can’t say we blame you — and if you have the ability to make it to San Diego in a few weeks, you too can experience another Hall H panel discussion with cast and crew from the show!
HBO announced today their schedule for appearances at SDCC 2019, with panels and autograph sessions lined up for Thrones, returning favorite Westworld and new series His Dark Materials. The Thrones panel will be held July 19 at 5:30pm in Hall H, featuring Jacob Anderson (Grey Worm), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei of Naath), Iain Glen (Ser Jorah Mormont), Conleth Hill (Varys), Maisie Williams (Arya Stark) and Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark). Despite early rumors that creators and showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss would not participate, they are also listed as panelists, along with director and executive producer Miguel Sapochnik.
Autograph signings will take place earlier at 3:30 p.m.
It should be an interesting discussion, given the much-talked-about series finale. Follow Game of Thrones‘ official Twitter account for updates during the Con or check in with us here at Watchers for news!
Ballsy!
All Hail King Bran the Broken!
ASNAWPTWP!
This will be an interesting panel..! In fact, they’re probably bringing ASNAWP along in case things get too hostile towards D&D.. 🙂
I, for one, am glad they’re attending, and hope the conversation will be insightful and informative as opposed to ungrateful, whinging “fans” just complaining and saying how season 8 was “garbage” or other such nonsense.
You need to add a few more letters lol
Enharmony1625,
I’m willing to bet there isn’t any confrontations. The type of people that are the most vocal and the most hateful online tend to be keyboard warriors. I’m sure we will see a ton of threads on places like reddit about how they are going to tell D&D how terrible they are, only for those people if they go, to be the biggest brown nosers in the hall. And then afterwords we will get threads about how they told D&D off and how D&D groveled for forgiveness.
I mean this idea that D&D should hide after making the biggest show in the world because there are people who don’t like S8 is stupid. They should proudly stand behind what they did with these 8 seasons.
This. Thank you David and Dan for a marvelous show, an amazing 8 seasons and a brilliant Season 8.
Unfortunate neither Kit or Emilia will be there.
mau,
I don’t think D&D should hide after such a tremendous season either, but I wouldn’t have blamed them if they did.
Well, they’ll be pre-screening the questions this time, for sure. 😆 Glad to see some of my favourites there! ❤
No Kit, Sophie, Emilia or Lena.. 🙁
What is ASNAWP?
JSchmeh,
True. I wouldn’t be too surprised if a few hecklers are heard in the audience though, even if they don’t stand up and ask questions.
BeardedOnion,
Or Peter. Or Rory.
Arya Super Ninja Assasin Warrior Princess
tiny direwolf,
ASNAWP:
Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess. An affectionate nickname for Arya that came about through discussions with talvikorrpi leading up to season 8. Concern was expressed over the show only portraying her as a badass warrior in season 8 as opposed to examining her many other layers. Ten Bears took the description that talvikorrpi came up with and turned it into the anagram ASNAWP.
Fortunately for us Arya super-fans, talvikorrpi’s fears went unfounded (whether she’ll admit it or not 🙂 ), as the only bit of warrior badassness we saw from Arya in season 8 was in episode 3. Everything else dealt with her reconnecting herself with her humanity and giving up her dark path of vengeance to choose life and hope.
Give D&D what they deserve for ruining GoT. No logic at all, idiot plotlines and like 1000 cock jokes.
mau,
Given how delusional D&D have seemed about the quality of their writing, I can see them standing proudly behind this steamy pile they churned up for season 8.
Also, I hope they get some real questions and not just softball stuff like “How hard has it been leaving the show behind” or “What are some projects you have lined up besides star wars”
I agree. They should definetly get the emmys for outstanding drama, outstanding writing for a drama, main title design, outstanding visual special effects and all the individual awards the cast and crew deserve and have earned.
rhard,
Despite what you feel about the final season, D&D deserve respect for creating the biggest show in history and for saving GOT from oblivion.
What do they deserve? On social media the badmouthing hordes have already issued many calls to arms. The GoT cast and crew are family, in large part thanks to D&D. (That was a key point of “The Last Watch’ but the social media meme-meisters took the mickey out of that as well.) How will NCW, John, Jacob and especially Maisie and Isaac, who actually grew up in that family) perceive the hate (and worse?) slung at their mentors? And the show is a success, whatever one thinks of the final season, in very large part thanks to D&D.
It is stupefying how many tweeting ‘fans’ whinge about things they themselves kinda forgot were solved, or missed the foreshadowing, or didn’t understand in the first place. And they are mostly oblivious that over years multiyear show/book sagas MUST leave side plotlines behind to concentrate on what has be been revealed to be the real focus. They howl because Quaithe has not been fully elucidated or Daario and Meereen have not been revisited for closure. Crikey! When Hamlet and the entire Danish court lies dead in the throne room, who bloody well cares what Fortinbras’s tax policy will be!!!
Enharmony1625,
“…the only bit of warrior badassness we saw from Arya in season 8 was in episode 3. Everything else dealt with her reconnecting herself with her humanity and giving up her dark path of vengeance to choose life and hope.”
I agree. A widespread reaction out there now is that D&D or Arya kinda forgot she was really a Face-changing Faceless Man and was useless after the Freys. And how could they sabotage her character arch (!) by having Sandor talk her out of killing Cersei? And why waste all that time on her running around KL and having her ridiculous plot-armour save her when she should have died four times? And why wasn’t she on that horse in Episode 6 or did they all just forget? I apologise, Enharmony, for ranting at all this. WotW is still a refuge of sanity (including most fans who were NOT happy with the season. Here at least their views are based more on knowledge than immaturity). In future I shall try to avoid venting. ASNAWP.
Co-sign this 100%. David and Dan did amazing work bringing Game of Thrones to life for the past decade, and at least in my opinion, they brought it to a strong and satisfying end. They can and should walk in to any room, hold their heads high, and be proud of the incredible achievement that they and their team created. I wish I could be there to thank them myself, but hopefully they’ll feel the love regardless!
JSchmeh,
I agree. Call me optimistic, but I think that the crowd will be respectful and embrace everyone on that stage warmly, including David and Dan. It’s going to be all fans in the room, after all, and there are many people out there (*raises hand enthusiastically*) who genuinely loved what they created, up to and including the final season. They should be well-represented there.
And if one or two jackasses happen to start slinging abuse, hopefully they’ll be shamed into silence or evicted (at the very least, you know the cast won’t stand for it. They love D&D). Being in that room is a privilege, not a right, and contrary to what some entitled people may think, buying a ticket to an event doesn’t give the buyer in question carte blanche to act like an asshole to either the people on stage or their fellow attendees. That’s not to say that there won’t be challenging questions asked, but again … I dare to hope that they will be framed respectfully, at least on the surface. The dark hellholes of the Internet (Reddit, etc.) will be toxic and insufferable, but what else is new?
I give them a lot of credit for this. I’m in the camp that appreciates what they did and still looks up to them as creatives, but am nonetheless disappointed in them for the last 2.5 seasons. I think this is going to serve like a press conference for them and they’re going to come out swinging.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I haven’t seen anything about people saying Arya was useless after killing the Freys, but to those people I say, “yeah, saving all of humanity sure is useless.” As someone Tweeted out several weeks ago, she’s an “honest to god hero of legend and myth that will never be forgotten.” Ain’t that the truth!
As far as killing Cersei goes, that’s not an arc! At least not a very interesting one. I mean, that’s where she was at the start of season 2, so to end up there is.. just objectively boring. I think some people just really underestimated her arc, thinking that she was just the “revenge character”, when in fact, as one of the primary characters in this story, there was always something bigger, more important things in store for her. I always had faith in George and D&D that that was the case, and it feels incredibly vindicating to be right.
And, I mean.. who doesn’t want that amazing final scene between her and Sandor? All the reactors I watched loved that scene! That’s what we call *checks notes* character development, folks.
So yeah.. no apologies needed for the rant. 🙂
Arya’s arc was murdered in the worst episode of the series “No One” when they turned her into a cheesy hero trope. All dimensions removed from the character, she became like every other character on every other show. ::sigh::
I think this event provides a great opportunity for HBO and D&D to change the “narrative” about GOT8. It is an opportunity for their Emmy campaign. A good showing at the Emmy is needed this year (and is likely!).
D&D has some major assets. HBO has an excellent marketing unit for GOT – we saw that fine pre-show work. HBO, D&D and the cast are a small group with financial and career interests at stake and also the ability to coordinate their response to the GOT criticism. In contrast, the viewers that are mocking S8 have no real financial/career or other incentive or means to organize to confront them at ComicCon.
Their objective should include getting a standing ovation, photos with fawning fans and a lot of “good” press after the event.
I expect the room to be “managed”. The moderator or chair for the event to be selected/trusted by D&D. The room to be stocked with friendly individuals. (Perhaps also “hecklers” – so they can show D&D tackling “tough” questions with charm and humility.) As you mention, the questions may be prescreened and the moderator will manage the room to dampen anything really nasty.
Anyway, fans are often intimidated/impressed when in the presence of “celebrities”. I expect it to go very well for them. Why would it not?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Arya’s arc was about reclaiming her humanity and giving up on her revenge so she could actually live her life. It was not about joining a death cult. Arya’s arc ended perfectly.
No Peter. This is not that surprising.
I always wonder why NCW attends these things at this stage of his life/career. I suppose he and his team think it is worth it.
Mango,
The vast majority of people were really impressed by the cast and crew in Season 8 – they did amazing work and deserve nothing but praise. A lot of people cannot stand D&D’s S8 writing. And then quite a few, like me, were just less than impressed with it, for different reasons. Did I love Season 8? No. Did I like it? Sure! And I loved parts of it. I have no need to heckle D&D as I love the series, but I can’t say I think they deserve the writing Emmy this year. If Bryan Cogman was nominated I would have been over the moon, he was the star for me this year. I suppose it depends who they’re up against. Not gonna throw them to the lions either, however.
Genuine criticism is fine, being nasty trolls with serious hate towards anyone for a TV show is just bizarre. I’d love to see how genuine criticism is responded to, and hopefully avoid the other altogether. Really hope the cast feels the love for making those characters amazing for us. I wish Emilia and Kit were there. Wee toasties for all.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
I’ll admit that I didn’t love the way they had her jumping through the city streets as she did, and wish that it was more grounded, but it did not destroy her character the way you claim. That’s completely ridiculous to suggest, and really says volumes more about you and your intolerance than anything.
Yes, lots to agree with here.
The actors really, really delivered what they were given. And they will do their best to defend the final product. They will tell us it was excellent and all made sense and that D&D are just lovely folks. Some of them may actually think it was great. For the others – their acting skills will help them make this convincing.
It will take years before we (those on the outside) know what really led to “Season 8” and how some really felt. D&D’s writing for S8? Lol. Ahem, it would appear that D&D are really good at adaptation.
Young Dragon,
Yes, that’s why it was so boring and typical.
Enharmony1625,
Fair enough, but I think it also says a lot about you and the stuff you like, which is to say you like getting fed the same typical arcs over and over again in TV and movies. GoT really drew me in initially because it was innovative and featured a lot of grey and dark tragic characters. Sadly, it relapsed to a lot of boring predictable tropes by series end.
LatrineDiggerBrian
I strongly disagree. Arya staying on the path of revenge would have been boring and typical. In order for a character arc to succeed, there needs to be character growth. How can Arya grow as a character if she is exactly the same since season 2?
Young Dragon,
Why did she need to succeed? Had you not been watching this show for all 8 seasons? Did Ned, Robb, or Oberyn succeed or grow? No, but those are the iconic arcs people remember about the show because they were tragedies. Likewise, Arya’s would’ve been far more interesting if it was a tragedy which was the path she was headed on before the silly ending to the HoB&W. This is exactly what I’m talking about, the show was innovative in that way in non traditional arcs and that’s what made it so great. And Arya was basically on the path for revenge anyway, but in a lame kind of, give the fans what they want kind of way. Then she pulled up short in E7 after the Disney moment with The Hound which was laughable.
GRRM is usually at that con tho hard to know these days. Wondering?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Ned and Robb had arcs, but they weren’t character arcs, if that makes sense. They were both faux protagonists. Their entire purpose in the story was to die. Oberyn didn’t really have a character arc either. He was simply there to show us where revenge will lead to. People who had character arcs in the story were Sam, Jon, the Hound, Danerys, Cersei, Jaime, Arya, Bran, Sansa, Theon, Bran, Melisandre, Jorah, Stannis, etc. All of these characters had successful character arcs, whether or not they ended alive or dead. These characters were not the same characters they were when the series began. Seeing Arya be the same character over the course of the entire series without growing or changing would have been terrible writing. I am very glad that the showrunners were wise enough to know this.
As for her final scene with the Hound, you think anything with even a small piece of happiness is Disney. That’s a very narrow view of things.
Young Dragon,
So someone isn’t a protagonist if they don’t grow and have a happy ending? Here is the definition of protagonist: “the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text.” It has nothing to do with the outcome of the their arc or whether they grow or not. Ned and Robb absolutely were protagonists. So was Alex De Large in A Clockwork Orange, and he certainly didn’t grow by the movies end.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Umm… LDB… The Many-Faced Goddess is not to be mocked.
Except for director Mylod’s dubious decisions (eg Braavos gut-stabbing), everything about Arya and Maisie was consistently stellar throughout all eight seasons.
PS 👸🏻🚂⚠️ Imminent Arya thread derailment warning
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Sure, Ned and Robb were protagonists, but they are not main characters in the story, so their purpose is to serve the development of the characters they support (i.e. Arya, Sansa, Jon, etc.). Especially in this story, we expect (and are given) far more development for the main characters than other protagonists. There is no point in devoting such a large portion of the chapters in the books or episodes/screen time on the show for any of the main characters if there isn’t going to be any character development. And that’s what we’re all here for isn’t it? Interesting and evolving characters?
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Oh no, a character can be a protagonist without having a character arc. I understand how that was confusing for you. I worded that poorly. Ned and Robb were false protagonists in the sense that we assumed they were the heroes of the story, but they died before the story was even halfway over. But they were protagonists of their arc up until their death.
Enharmony1625,
Just interesting is fine. Doesn’t have to be evolving. Stannis, Ned, Robb, Oberyn and a host of other characters didn’t evolve and they were interesting all the same. Ned absolutely was the main character before he died, and that’s why it’s such a shocker and one of the more iconic moments in TV history.
Well, I don’t want to be fed the same typical arcs over and over again, and I don’t see Arya’s arc at all as typical. It’s wonderful and extremely effective in how it’s told, especially how the books and show use the Faceless Men as symbolic of losing oneself in name and even appearance by the pursuit of becoming a killer.
If you stand back and look at just the major strokes of her arc, sure there are similarities with other characters, but the same can be said for any GoT character. It’s in the details and how it’s told that makes them all, including most of all Arya for me, so unique and special.
Yes, operative word there is was. Ned was a main character in book 1/season 1, and we assumed he would be for the whole story, but we were wrong. Ultimately in the grand scheme of the story, Ned is a supporting character, whose purpose was to set Arya, Sansa and Bran on their heroes quests (as well as being a catalyst for the story that followed). George has called ASOIAF a generational saga — it’s about the kids (the Stark children, the Lannister children, and Jon & Dany), and this is reinforced many times throughout the show as well.
QFT! (Quoted for Truth)
Young Dragon,
Bottom line, I loved Arya’s arc up until that episode. I completely lost interest in her after that. You didn’t. To each their own.
Enharmony1625,
We can go back and forth on semantics all night long, but I’m not really interested that. Bottom line is, I completely lost interest in Arya’s arc after “No One”. If you didn’t, all the more power to you.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Ok.
One thing I’m wondering about though: why is one of the main criticisms of Jaime’s arc (and I don’t recall your specific stance on it) that he ended up where he began, and now some people are criticizing Arya for not ending up where she began? That just.. makes no sense.
what if they have been secretly filming the secret 9th season during 2017-2018 filming schedule?
and this gonna be them promoting it
lmao…
still in Denial cant believe thats how they ended the series.
Terrible writing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QvZSeOEkrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz930ix978c
Lul, may the odds be ever in D&D’s favor. xD Or, not. Knew they’d have to face the public for questioning sometime. Hope it isn’t set up to be too easy on ’em; no kid gloves. But as far as cast, that’s…fewer people than I was expecting. (Subverted once more!) I do love several of them, but hoped almost all the regulars who made it to the last season would turn out for the final one. Since I live near NYC, I’ll try to hold out hope for more of them at NYCC in October–but since they’ve been teaching me to be even more pessimistic than I naturally am, I’m scared they won’t even attend that one. This is the day after my birthday, though, so with any luck it’ll make a nice present…finally they can freely discuss. Or, pretty freely. “The Last Watch” was lovely, but I want to hear all the actors’ memories of making S8. As well as for them all to discuss the, ehem, events of it openly and honestly.
Hate going off-topic, but I couldn’t resist reiterating re: Arya…she was among my top favorite characters for the first seven seasons, but didn’t impress me much in the final. She started out as a naturally pretty great kid and I related to her, so I didn’t really want to see her change too much. I’d have been absolutely cool with her using the faces at least one last time in S8 and/or killing Cersei (I mean, using the faceless assassin on her would’ve been far more logical than using her on the Night King…whatever the LoL says though I suppose, who am I to question his wisdom…’_’) Because that’s a totally worthy goal. I wanted to watch Cersei get what she deserved from the moment she reminded Robert of Nymeria. I’d have been fine watching Arya die a satisfying death. I just…was overall disgruntled and irritated with her or her usage, and I’d rarely felt that prior to S8. Oy, it did such weird things. o.0
LOVE the “Devoid of Logic” vids and “coughing Varys” image. XD
This is not topic about Arya.
mau,
You must be new here 😉
mau,
“All threads lead to Arya.”
– Ancient Roman adage.
Mr Derp,
I LOLed!
It’s a proud tradition. 🙂
Enharmony1625,
The ending to Jaime’s arc was one of my favorite things about S8. To me, there’s no comparison to he and Arya’s arc. Also, I don’t think you can look at art like that, like “they both ended up in the same place” so that makes them automatically good or bad. They could’ve had the exact same structure to their arcs and it would’ve been perfectly reasonable for someone to like one and not the other, since they were two different characters from two different families who went to different places and did different things.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
They had very different arcs, that’s true, but that’s not what I was getting at. And for the record, I liked Jaime’s ending too — I thought it was appropriate and fitting, albeit tragic. However, many people did not, and a common refrain when it came to where Jaime ended up is “what was the point of his whole arc”, or “all of that character development was just thrown away”. If they feel that way about his arc, why wouldn’t they feel the same if Arya ended up right where she began, with revenge against Cersei on her mind?
There are some big story-wise issues with Arya killing Cersei as well:
1) Despite all her horrible acts throughout the series, Cersei isn’t directly responsible for that much against the Starks, particularly Arya herself. Apart from getting Lady killed, she tried to talk Joffrey out of having Ned executed and she had no part in the Red Wedding. While we can understand why Arya had her on her list, there are people on her list that have done far worse to her and her family than Cersei. With that in mind, it’s anticlimactic from a story point of view. From a character point of view, perhaps not because Cersei is a major villain, but the deeper layers of it — the subtext — lacks climactic significance.
2) She’s not the only one that could kill Cersei. i.e. The story doesn’t need Arya to be around for Cersei to die. This is proven by the fact that it’s Dany/Drogon that ends up actually killing her and Jaime. The Night King, however, could only be killed by Arya, and this solidifies her importance to the story in a way that killing Cersei doesn’t. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant; this is principles of storytelling.
Enharmony1625,
The big news is that Maisie Williams will be on the SDCC panel. That in and of itself makes ASNAWP relevant.
… and provides a convenient segue for my upcoming series of comments…
Enharmony1625,
Part I:
So here’s what’s got me stoked (and wondering if there’s such a thing as “multiple nerdgasms”):
According to the recent press release about Maisie’s new six-part Sky series, “Two Week’s to Live”, she will play Kim Noakes.
“But Kim is no ordinary fish out of water – she’s more like a great white shark who knows how to strip a Smith & Weston SDVE pistol in 6 seconds flat, skin a deer to make a sleeping bag, and perform all the routines from Dirty Dancing.”
“Dirty Dancing” is one of my all-time favorite guilty pleasure movies. As we all know, dancing is Maisie’s first love.
I will keel over in ecstasy if I see her perform Cynthia Rhodes’s dance moves to The Contours’ “Do You Love Me” from this early scene in “Dirty Dancing”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijK0WTB_-RY
(at 2:00 – 3:27)
Enharmony1625,
Part II
… And I’d squee my b*lls off if Maisie re-enacts Jennifer Grey’s dance training montage to The Surfaris’ “Wipe-Out”, and the dance lessons with Patrick Swayze and Cynthia Rhodes to Eric Carmen’s “Hungry Eyes”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfzKfsX7Fag
… especially at 3:10 to the end.
what if they been shooting secret episode 7 or season 9 during the time they said they shoot season 8 only. afterall they took almost twice as long as usual.
it will be about The revelation that bran is the lord of light with evil plan .
lmao im not an frequent poster here so pls just dont bully me. pity me the delusional and denial fan who still cant believe the show is over and actually having a hard time coping with it
Enharmony1625,
Personally, I never really cared whether she killed Cersei or not. But her showing up to kill her and The Hound convincing her to leave was cheesy and bad imo. Her reuniting with The Hound after how things were left in S4 also didn’t feel right, so at that point there is nothing that could’ve happened that would’ve win me over. Even if she did kill Cersei.
She needed to succeed for several reasons: 1) Storytelling necessity–GRRM gave her a classic Hero’s Journey (as David Rosenblatt wrote here a few weeks ago), and she succeeded in all the steps. She earned survival. After all that, some random death would have been jarring and have rung false. 2) They can’t kill US! Arya became our Everyman figure in books and show. At 9YO she began to stand for the ordinary person, not nobs and snobs. She bravely defied the armed royal bully to defend a butcher’s boy! She spoke truth to power (Cersei) to defend her sister’s pet. Later she was OUR eyewitness to Ned’s execution AND the Red Wedding. Through her we got to know the Commoners, particularly during the seasons she traversed the Riverlands with the Hound. And the show capped this when they had Arya caught up the devastation and horror of Dany’s inferno. We SAW what it was like; we felt it; we survived it! 3) Her moral choices were correct. Originally motivated by Vengeance, she ended up enforcing Justice. Moreover, she killed but she saved as well. She did not kill even one clearly innocent person. Surely, the world was a better place with fewer rapists, paedophiles, traitors, paid assassins, torturers, and bullies, not to mention the Night King. Every MAJOR decision she made at a critical moment, was for life, not death! 4) A key theme of the story is the Children!. She started as one, and is still called girl, though she’s 18. Most important, GRRM and society in general hold children sacred. Arya became their protector and avenger. This is emphasised by her having that glorious final scene in the final episode of the first half of the show. That episode is called…The Children. Enharmony1625, explained this even better. 5) Irrefutable prophecy–Hot Pie, the show’s Wise Fool character, said she would survive. So she had to. 😉
The path she was headed on all along was back to herself, but older, wiser, and a bit haunted. Sandor, who had protected her all long (despite his seeming brutality) wanted her to live. “He would not leave her, and she would not leave him.” Some fans jest that he was her foster-father, so he was surely the right person to turn her around and save her life. And she honoured him by accepting his advice, and saying “Sandor, thank you.” BTW, I respect that you turned against her, but for one measly episode? I have no love for Sansa and have been highly critical of her most of the time. But honestly, I kept on giving her a chance. And when the sisters reconciled after combining to kill Littlefinger, I joined Team Arya+Sansa until Season 8 Sansa betrayed Jon’s incendiary secret. I just can’t understand anyone turning against a beloved character based on one episode in which they did nothing bad, but was victimised by the wretched excess of the directing.
Stark Raven' Rad,
You can spin it however you want, but the bottom line is Arya had absolutely no conflict or inner struggle after her cheesy ending to the House of Black and White storyline. Her entire arc from then on was just one crowd pleasing moment after another i.e. killing Walder Frey, LF, and the Night King, and reuniting with The Hound. ::yawn:: Sadly, most of the other main and secondary characters also had their arcs snuffed out in D & D’s mad rush to end the show.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Part 1 of 2
Au contraire, my friend LDB. After leaving him for dead at the end of S4, Arya’s suppressed feelings and conflicting emotions about the Hound were set up elegantly in two scenes in Seasons 5 and 6 during her stay in Braavos:
S5e6 Jaqen & Arya Game of Faces – about The Hound
(at 1:01 – 1:31):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYQzccLznFM
***
Arya: “An outlaw kidnapped me. A man called Polliver.”
[Thwack!]
Arya: “A man called The Hound. Sandor Clegane. He tried to sell me but was wounded in a fight. He begged me to kill him, but I wouldn’t. I left him in the mountains to die. I wanted him to suffer. I hated him.”
[Thwack!]
Arya: “I hated him!”
[Thwack!]
Arya: “That’s not a lie!”
[Thwack!]
Jaqen: “A Girl lies to me. To the Many-Faced God. To herself.”
____________
S6e3, The Waif & “A Girl” (Arya) Training Montage, about The Hound
(at 1:03 – 2:00):
Waif: “Tell me about The Hound.”
Arya: “Also dead. Arya Stark left him to die. He was on her list.”
[Thwack!]
Arya: “He was not on her list anymore. She had taken him off it.”
Waif: “Why? Didn’t she want him dead any longer?”
Arya: “She did and she did not.”
Waif: “She sounds confused.”
Arya: “Yes. She was.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBue47iGonM
—-
To be cont….
Ten Bears,
What does that prove? That was D & D trying to smooth the path for their lame reunion in S8 but it made no sense since she just left the guy to die and robbed him. Would have made more sense if she asked some thing like “do you feel remorse for letting him die” and she said “no” ::thwack::
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Wait! I’m not done. Part 2 on its way.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
S8e2, Arya and Sandor on WF battlements
(0:00 – 1:19)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6aFvk5H7Ko
(Arya sits next to Sandor; he offers her wineskin; she drinks; neither says anything)
Sandor: “You never used to shut up. Now you’re just sitting there like a mute.”
Arya: “Guess I’ve changed.”
(Pause)
Arya: “What are you doing up here?”
Sandor: “What does it look like?”
Arya: “No, I mean what are you doing up here. You joined the Brotherhood. You went beyond the Wall with Jon. You’re here now. Why? When was the last time you fought for anyone but yourself?”
(Sandor turns, looks Arya in the eyes)
Sandor: “I fought for you, didn’t I?”
______________
S8e3: Sandor impelled to keep fighting by seeing Arya battling
(at 2:00 – 2:28)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5EklvOGEUI
_______________
S8e3, Sandor and Beric save Arya from wights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAacZ0Roo-M
____________
S8e4, Sandor and Arya leave WF together
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wb6w177bGk
_______
Sandor & Arya last scene (S8e5)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DgACkATLvA
Sandor: “Go home, girl. The fire will get her, or one of the Dothraki. Or maybe that dragon will eat her. It doesn’t matter. She’s dead. And you’ll be dead too if you don’t get out of here.”
Arya: “I’m going to kill her!”
(Arya starts walking to go after Cersei when Sandor grabs her by the arm, and tries to talk to her about the corrosive effect of revenge.)
Sandor: “You think you wanted revenge a long time? I’ve been after it all my life. It’s all I care about. And look at me…”
(Arya still looks towards her target with anger on her face.)
Sandor (brusquely, finally getting her attention): “Look at me! You want to be like me?”
(He gently cradles her neck, and speaks earnestly)
Sandor: “You come with me, you die here.”
(Her expression changes completely. Anger melts away into innocence and compassion. As Sandor walks away, Arya calls after him..)
Arya: “Sandor! … Thank you.”
_____________
If you watch all of these scenes consecutively, their rapprochement makes sense – as does Sandor’s role in finally turning Arya away from her vengeance trail.
Just one more time…I’d still rather have watched Jaime stab Cersei, or Arya sneak in and assassinate her, or Dany fly straight over to the keep and roast her as she should have in the first place…I got bricks. 8-|
I don’t believe that Arya was the only one who could kill the Night King. In-story maaaybe because it was destined/fated or she was divinely ordained as the best choice, but in reality I suspect it was just because the writers wanted their fave to do it, so they made as much sense out of it as they could.
I also do not believe that Arya “had” to succeed/survive. The world doesn’t honor any notion of “earned survival.” The show was supposed to be realistic enough that literally nobody “had” to survive. No matter how often we saw through their eyes. The only true reasons it was necessary for Arya to live ‘til the end were a) Hot Pie said so and b) George’s wife would’ve killed him since she was her favorite character.
Ten Bears,
I’m sold! 🙂
I believe her dancing is what really helped out with her fight choreography on GoT, and why she was able to do many of her own stunts. Arya fighting off the wights in 8×03, for instance, looks amazing and completely convincing that she has these skills — it’s so fun to watch!
LatrineDiggerBrian,
That’s too bad that you found it cheesy. I loved the hell out of it, and in show-verse it makes complete sense to me that Sandor is the one to reach her. In the books, however, I believe (as many others do I think) that it will be her meeting and giving mercy to Lady Stoneheart that will accomplish the same thing. That would be an amazing and haunting scene that I’m a bit sad we didn’t get on the show, but.. more Arya+Sandor is always a plus in my book!
But the writers are the ones that make the story, so.. reality is the story. And the story makes it abundantly clear that Arya was the only one capable to get close enough and have the right skills to get the job done.
Yes! My only regret about Arya’s fight scenes with her customized weapon against the wights is that the scenes were so brief. You’re right though: they did show off Maisie Williams’s physical dexterity, i.e., her “dance moves.” So did her water dancing practicing in S4 until Sandor showed up and asked: “Who taught you that shite?” 😊
I could’ve watched a thirty minute, uninterrupted montage of Arya plowing through hordes of wights with her double-tipped dragonglass spear. As much as I liked her “Jurassic Park”-style library scene, I would’ve excised those few minutes of suspense for longer scenes of Arya spinning and twirling with her weapon.
But I am not complaining! With the sole exception of Mylod’s dubious directorial choices in the Waif vs. Arya Braavos gut-stabbing and foot chase, the 73 episodes of the show did perfect justice to Arya and Sandor.
I concur. The only decision I thought twice about was how the Arya vs. NK scene was filmed vs. the way it was described (by Cogman, I think) during the table read.
As presented, it seemed that Arya materialized out of thin air, as if she’d been beamed down from the transporter room on the Starship Enterprise. As described during Cogman’s reading of the script during the table read, Arya was supposed to leap off a pile of (re-)dead wights and stab NK.
Again, I am not complaining. Watching Arya use the dagger flip from her S7e4 sparring match with Brienne in a real fight situation was worth the “Gotcha!” surprise. Though I would’ve liked to see Arya sneak by the WW lieutenants and leap off a pile of wights, I think Sapochnik made the decision for Arya’s approach to be a shock since the camera was focused on Jon’s (futile) attempt to reach Bran, and the audience expected Jon to be the one to have a final showdown with Ol’ Blue Eyes.
I’m a happy camper. 😋 I got to see ASNAWP stick that “horned f*cker” and close his blue eyes forever. It also fulfilled my secondary tinfoil theory that Arya would turn out to be The Princess That Was Promised aka ASNAWPTWP.
Stark Raven' Rad,
I agree 100%. Arya was our “lens” through which we witnessed the horrors inflicted on the so-called common folk – in part because she was one of them for most of her journeys, eg, NW gutter rat orphan Arry; concentration camp prisoner; servant; refugee; hostage; cult acolyte; and first-hand witness to farmers, innkeepers and children being tortured, robbed, beaten, molested and killed by paramilitary goons and assorted sadists.
P.S. You wrote that “Sandor, who had protected her all long (despite his seeming brutality) wanted her to live.”
If I recall correctly from Richard Dormer’s interview, I believe that Beric’s death scene as filmed had him utter last words to Arya – actually one word: “Live.” That was excised from the scene as aired. No big deal though. I still thought Arya’s compassion for the dying Beric was brilliant acting by Maisie Williams. And contrary to some fans’ “retconning” criticism, and though it shredded my speculation that Arya or Gendry would kill Melisandre, I really liked Melisandre’s pep talk to Arya.
Oh, and I got a kick out of Mel’s inexplicable ability to repeat other characters’ catchphrases. Like she spooked Jon Snow in S5 when she repeated Ygritte’s words, “You know nothing, Jon Snow”, she gave a callback to Syrio Forel when she finished her pep talk to Arya with…
Melisandre: “What do we say to the God of Death?”
Arya: “Not today.”
Maisie seemed to be willing, much as Kit was, to learn the skills that their character ‘s had. ( Not saying others weren’t)
Maisie’s right handed but Arya’s left etc and Kit became an adept swordsman as well as rider according to the horse manager. Both liked to personally push the envelope which lent so much more credence to their scenes.
My daughter was a dancer and it becomes part of them, making every move part of something more.
MotherofWolves,
Since Maisie William’s movie “X-Men: New Mutants” has been pushed back yet again (from its originally announced release date of April, 2018; to February, 2019; to August, 2019; and now to April, 2020 – if ever*), and from what I’ve read, Sophie Turner’s film “Dark Phoenix” has underperformed at the box office – both, in part, casualties of Disney’s acquisition of 20th Century Fox – and Maisie Williams won’t be appearing at the Con of Thrones 🤢, I can only imagine that when she appears at San Diego ComicCon on July 19, someone in the audience is going to ask Maisie about her upcoming role in the six-part Sky series, “Two Week’s to Live.”
She seems genuinely excited about it. She was quoted as saying: “Looking forward to getting into something new, I think Two Weeks To Live has really great potential and I want to make something incredible with this wonderful team!” I figure if it’s a hit on Sky, HBO will nab it to air in the U.S.
Personally, I’m not invested in the X-Men franchise. It may have run its course. I’d see “New Mutants” to check out Maisie Williams, though a young mutants horror-type film doesn’t excite me. (If the rough cut were impressive, I have to assume it would’ve been finished and released by now. Who knows. Some dork at Disney is likely controlling its fate.)
* [There have been rumors that “New Mutants” is in need of extensive reshoots; will go straight to video; or will never be released at all. As I recall, in a recent interview Maisie Williams wasn’t optimistic about its prospects. It’d probably be a sore subject…]
It’s probably for the best that she’s involved in a project that won’t get chewed up by the Hollywood bean-counting machine. Plus, I’m psyched to see her play the character described by the press release for “Two Weeks to Live.” It sounds like a fun series that can take advantage of her talents for comedy, action, dancing… and romance. (I for one was initially shocked – and then quite impressed – when her flirtation with Gendry culminated in a bona fide love scene.)
I’d heard about the New Mutants issues which is disappointing.
I’m looking forward to one day seeing more of Maisie’s work although her smaller films will take their time coming to North America. I have every confidence that she is going to do quite well.
Same! Gosh.. the number of times I’ve watched this scene and of her sparring with Brienne is.. embarrassing. 🙂
MotherofWolves,
I love Jon’s fight scenes as well, and Kit really became quite the adept swordsman. You completely believe that Jon is a good as he is because of all the work Kit put into it. I do wish we could have seen some more of Jon fighting on the ground in 8×03 and/or 8×05..
So much for the D and D are cowards, morionic people !
I agree. Both Tommy Dunne, the weapons master, and Riley Ingram (sp?), the stunt coordinator, said Maisie and Nik were the best fighters. I’ve also heard a lot of praise for Kit. As happy as I am with Arya killing the Night King (and believe that the gods and FM all chose HER for it), it would have been ever so eye-popping to see Arya and Jon fighting together to ward off the NK and his White Walker kingsguard from Bran. Arya could still get he final Dagger thrust just as she did. And as the Others disintegrated Jon and she would sink to their knees in a tight hug. And for you,
Ten Bears, I’m willing to throw Sandor in to their fighting party. 😉
Ten Bears,
No matter how much evidence you present, the whole thing just didn’t work for me. And I think that more has to do with the path they took, doesn’t matter how well they executed it, I just lost interest in her arc after she got back to Westeros. To me it was just her being awesome and not really struggling with anything.
I was over the moon as I got to see one of my favourite physical actors, Javier Botet, at his creepy best in that scene. 😊
Morions are definitely the worst.
Pigeon,
And I thought D&D and The Morionics were a Toad the Wet Sprocket cover band.
The nominations are on July 16th. The event is on July 19th. The GOP folks will walk into the room knowing they have many nominations and can counter criticisms by pointing to their many noms. This seems a good time to start to turn the “narrative”.
This Emmy year is not very competitive with some of the stronger series (e.g., Westworld) being out of the race. GOT can expect lots of nominations. I think that any show of disapproval by the industry may come in the “winning” awards in September.
Let us see how it goes….
If that were the case, I definitely want to join them on the festival circuit with my future band, The Flailing Elbows.
This is the very last time that we’ll be seeing the GoT cast at Comic Con, and it’s making me sad just thinking about it. So I hope the atmosphere doesn’t get soured by any audience members who want to focus solely on criticism during the Q&A. Season 8 doesn’t define GoT, and no matter how many problems some of us may have had with that season, we shouldn’t let them overshadow all the marvelous scenes, acting, and dialogue that the show gave us for several years. I hope that those people who were lucky enough to be part of the audience at GoT’s Comic Con appearance will keep in mind that this is literally their last chance to say goodbye and thank you to the cast and crew, and will treat the occasion with respect.
I hate the idea of Dan and Dave having to explain GoT at Comic Con. All the questions raised in the show should have been answered in the show.
The fact that the show left so many loose ends is terrible… Unless they were “forced” to wait for the remaining books; end then, we will see…
Pigeon,
Wow, i misspelled a letter, so funny, hahaha ! Let’s completely ignore my valid point
Lunaselene,
I hope they won’t even have a Q and A because they don’t have to answer anything especially to a bunch of creeps
I gather that some groups are actually arguing over how to most effectively insult the showrunners. And in front of the actors, many of whom see Dave and Dan as family of sorts. I wonder if this attitude will manifest at Con of Thrones, though of course D&D won’t be there. Last year the atmosphere was infectious, in part because it was so positive. I can’t go, but I hope attendees are all as enthusiastic and friendly as they were last year. Shout out, wolfish!
Iul,
I had no problem understanding anything. If they do have to explain, that’s on the viewer for not paying attention.
Young Dragon,
Everything made sense to me too.
You just need to pay attention 😉
Is anyone going to attend the panel? I am going and I would like to know if anyone else has tickets for Thursday and Friday of San Diego Comic Con. Looking for buddies for the long night ehrm, the long line ahead of me.
Lunaselene,
Are you going? I am planning on attending and I am looking for a line buddy.
Dee Stark,
[ spoiler ] Can you explain this logical fallacy? It is just one of many in Season 8.
I promise I am not trolling. I just want to know if I missed somethings. What about Tyrion ignoring the fact that his sister is not to be trusted after trying to kill him after he tried to kill Tywin? Him trying to plead with Cersei for love of her children, while ignoring the fact that Cersei could care less for the people of Kings Landing. [ / spoiler]
Young Dragon,
[ spoiler ] Can you explain this logical fallacy? It is just one of many in Season 8.
I promise I am not trolling. I just want to know if I missed somethings. What about Tyrion ignoring the fact that his sister is not to be trusted after trying to kill him after he tried to kill Tywin? Him trying to plead with Cersei for love of her children, while ignoring the fact that Cersei could care less for the people of Kings Landing. [ / spoiler]
Quote Reply
Cathy,
Unfortunately I can’t and will have to settle for watching it on Youtube afterwards. But lucky you! I hope someone else in this discussion group will be going and will get in touch with you. Have a fantastic time!
Short of that last duh thing, I’d have forced Cersei to have to contend with the Night King and killed her somehow that way…
Oh, ya know what I mean…our reality-reality vs. the world of the story.
I am entirely unconvinced that Arya was the only one who could’ve killed the NK; it went well thanks to her skills, but had they picked a different character from a hat they could’ve found a way to give him/her the deciding blow.
I don’t believe Arya was the PWWP either.
Yeah Brian, I found Arya’s last scene with the Hound a little cheesy too…I dunno, my feelings on it are mixed.
Agree w/ Cathy & Lul too.
Too right! I saw someone ask how D&D could ‘kinda forget’ (the new catch phrase) about a dagger so important it was in a book! It helps to have a good attention span…and some life-experience. Not to be ageist, but many of the most irate fans seem to be young, so they see plot holes and inconsistencies where oftentimes there are none. Some mention in passing they watch on their phones!!! How can you see details unless you use a decent-size screen? Emilia even suggested fans should watch Episode 5 on a large screen!
These are completely nonsensical arguments.. Whatever.. And no, Arya was/is not the PtwP or Azor Ahai. That’s still Jon. Specifically who strikes the killing blow has nothing to do with AA/PtwP. Review your prophecies.
How in the world was anything I said “nonsensical?” It was not in the least.
“Reality is the story,” on the other hand…
Yeah, whatever.
I never said that whomever delivered the final blow would be AA/PWWP. I’m well aware. They seemed to leave the prophecy/interpretation up to the viewer, since it wasn’t even mentioned throughout the entire season.
shelle,
“…but had they picked a different character from a hat…”
Well yeah. They could have had a leaf fall on his head. They’re the writers. They can write whatever they want, so that point is.. well, pointless. The reality is the story as it was presented to the audience, and in that reality the LoL saw Arya as the instrument of the NK’s demise. You don’t get much more iron-clad proof than that.
Yep. All I meant was that that wasn’t their sole option; they could’ve worked out a way for somebody else to do it had they so desired. (Or an enchanted leaf of doom.)
Only just caught up to this article and my first reaction is that the trolls and critics will be taking some shots at D&D during this session. I’m sure it will only be a minority of those in attendance but I hope criticism is not over the top.