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HBO has released 7 new photos from “Mother’s Mercy,” the season finale of Game of Thrones season 5.
The episode synopsis: Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
New HQ photos below the cut!
The season finale is written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss and directed by David Nutter.
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Plus, HBO posted this photo from the finale on HBO.com.
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And Lady Alayne Stone-Heart?
Dark wings, Dark words….
Mustafa. S.,
I hope so.
I’m so glad they’ve lightened the pictures from the episodes. Otherwise we’d never be able to even see Jaqen.
Rather than a picture of Arya, they give a picture of Jaqen. lol.
Also, Sansa’s looking pregnant.
Robb Snow,
Didn’t he tell Davos what to say? I don’t remember Stannis giving him a letter
Everyone except Mel looks so sad
And why does Sansa look surprised?
bigb,
Does she really?
Cersei looking bored as hell of all the holy treatement.
You’re right, he did not give Davos a letter. My mistake.
However, Stannis did have a scroll in his hand in the scene where he told Davos to return to Castle Black. There was quite a bit of emphasis put on it, particularly when Stannis set it down on the table. I wonder…
There’s no way Sansa is pregnant, and she doesn’t look like that at all. wtf is wrong with you?
And oh wow, looks like burning little girls really gets Mel’s rocks off
I like the guys just sitting on the steps leading to Dany’s throne. Well, shit, what do we do now? We’re screwed. And Cersei trying so hard to look contrite. Not.
And damnitall, this season went by way too fast!
That second Cersei picture is right after the Sparrow tells her the punishment.
“Really? This came down to you seeing me naked? We could have solved that 8 episodes ago.”
Sansa is standing next to bows and arrows. Can she shoot?
I’ve always considered it a book nod and love every time she wears it.
I’m pretty sure Stannis sent Davis with that scroll….I mean that’s what I got out of it…but I tend to miss obvious things at times….
bigb,
But look where he is standing, in their “face vault”, where they get new faces for disguise…
So Arya will be getting a new face I’m guessing…
Kind of sucks a little, thought D&D would at least put her through her “I’m blind and have to super heighten all my other senses” training.
Ugh… Melisandre has that look like, “OK, I’ll put out now. I want to name this Shadow Baby Braxton”
Diana,
No but Theon can
No, I don’t think so. I’ve rewatched the scene a few times and Stannis does not hand the scroll to Davos, nor does Davos pick it up. Unless they just chose not to show it on camera, I think the scroll is still sitting on the table.
That shot of Jaqen looks like he knows exactly what Lana just set off to do without having been told.
60 mins is wayyyyyyyyyyyy to short for all those storylines to fit in.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Is it really just going to be 60?
Just imagine the loss of face on the rare occasions those good folks from HOBAW fail to ice their target :O
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Sansa’s been let out of her cage, eh? Honestly, she’s the one I’m most excited to see in the finale. Ever since I found out she’d be marrying Ramsay, I’ve wondered if she would end up getting pregnant. I just hope that they don’t turn her into Sansa Stoneheart; I would never want that kind of fate for her.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
but wasn’t it reported that she did filming on a closed green screen set?
it makes more sense to do it that way anyway, given the specifics of the scene
Jaime’sHand1220,
Yes there was a scroll Stannis had in front of him on that table when he was sending Davos off.
Damn, I have to wait a year now to see how Davos reacts to what Stannis did, that scene is going to be epic, 2 of the top tier GoT actors in an intense emotional standoff…
Someone threw on the house lights in the House of Black and White, thank god!
Arthur,
Well, the actor who plays Davos said he finds out about Shireen in the finale, so that should be interesting at least.
Moonlight,
Davos is going to be crushed! He loved that little sweet girl.
There is no way Davos stays backing Stannis, just no way.
As i heard from the moment they start stripping her its an body double. No green screens …
Makes you wonder why has the main cast stopped stripping (except for Mel …) Dany is in bed with Dario every episode and she keeps coverd up all the time… :/
Stannis isn’t looking too distraught. He looks like he’s just ‘back to business.’
What a douche nugget dingleberry.
Rygritte,
In the promo for the episode we can see a shot of Arya in the face room, so I think they have a conversation in this scene. Also, Arya’s not wearing the Lanna outfit in the promo, and they’re coincidentally in the face room. So I think there won’t be a Lanna anymore, and that Arya will change her face.
Hahaha in that picture of Tyrion, Jorah, and Daario, they look like a rock band whose lead singer just quit the band.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I always thought it would need to be Lena in order for her to convey the full power of the scene
But Im sure Nutter knows what hes doing.
Arthur,
I’m almost wondering that if Davos sees Jon get resurrected (assuming that he is, of course) he’ll switch allegiances to the Starks, leading up to his mission to find Rickon.
As usual, these pictures give nothing away.
Still, Sansa is starting to scare me.
Got me bro
Well, someone is most likely to pull up 300 images afterward to prove it if it’s not her. 😛
Flora Linden,
She looks pretty scared herself.
That look on Jon’s face is way more Pink Letter than Davos’ message. He just read
jentario,
Maybe Arya goes in the face room without Jaqen’s permission and sneaks off and he’s on to her the whole time but just staying back and observing.
It kind of makes sense, you know Jaqen knows all about her, he knew her name and everything before she even told him. he knows what she’s been through.
After all, it’s Arya’s type of prayer, the one she says evey night with those names, that is the type of prayer Facelessmen answer.
Plus Jaqen owes Arya his life. I say when he learned about her, he found a special interest in her because her type of revenge is such a rare and special thing.
He offered her a way to be trained to have the bittersweet satisfaction to cross those names off her list herself.
He is the Facelessman that not only heard her prayer, but also owes her his life, so because of this special circumstances are allowed.
a man is wearing too many clothes….
Seriously
seriously 😉
Arthur,
But if Arya “took” a face, how would she know how to put it on?
Davos lost his son in service to Stannis. Shireen was like a second child to Davos, a child he loved and respected. Now she is lost to him, as well, in a brutal way. I can’t imagine Davos following Stannis any longer. All I could think of watching the ordeal of Shireen walking that gauntlet was how furious Davos was going to be.
Cersei looks a hot mess lol Can’t wait to see
So much stuff to look forward to!! Sansa/Reek stuff has me the most curious though I think. Oh and I am dreading
Gather your delusional balls together, oh stag master tool, and smack dat red tramp who corrupts your soul! I hope Shireen and Aemon are playing cyvasse in the clouds, waiting for their moment to send a lightning bolt or a dragon Mel’s way.
What do you guys think of these timings?
King’s Landing – 10 minutes
Braavos – 7 minutes
Dorne – 8 minutes
Meereen/Dothraki Sea – 8 minutes
Winterfell/Stannis – 18 minutes
Hopefully no-one’s surprised with me weighting it around Winterfell. Frankly, I wish it had a lot more. A lot of characters/plotlines up there are going to get screwed over as it is. Too much to do.
edit: also, really? Davos finding out about Shireen this episode? I sort of hope that’s true, but also I’m just left thinking “oh another thing that has to be rushed”.
umuckurlife,
Yeah I’m starting to think that as well. One way the Pink Letter (which I believe is authored by Ramsay) could perhaps come about is if Brienne and Pod help Sansa escape but are captured themselves, taking Mance’s place from the books. He might also mention the burning of Shireen if he witnessed or otherwise learned about that. The rest of the letter could stay largely the same.
Are you Australian ? is this a Home and Away reference 😛
Moonlight,
This track could be used for his scene.It’s a strange title,but it’s very fitting for his scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxtO2mKY6QI
bigb,
That’s true… We can just assume this teaching was done off screen?
But good point, you would think learning such things would be worth the screen time!
He killed three people for her and helped her escape Harrenhal pretty sure they are square in that regard, doesn’t mean to say he won’t give her extra length on the leash because of her history.
Geralt of Rivia,
Well, if Davos does decide to back Jon, I don’t think it will be until next season. Like you suggested, I think Jon’s fate will be left as a cliffhanger.
bigb,
I doubt she’ll take a face. She might get one after the job to further her training but there’s really no necessity to change her face for killing Meryn or the Thin Man. a face wasn’t deemed necessary for the thin man and Meryn hasn’t recognized her despite the many opportunities to do so.
Geralt of Rivia,
Wow… for some reason that track makes me think of Jon Snow’s spirit raising up from his body in like slow-motion or something? Him falling and the camera raising up over his body with Nights Watch people running around…
Good call!
Maceless Fan,
How do we upvote comments!
HelloThere
Wasn’t she pregnant, though?
(Dammit, why isn’t the spoiler code working!)
Arthur,
That was a boring part in the book and it would have been even more boring on the show. And people are already saying that Arya’s storyline was slow all season .
barak,
She was? I think ur right
One more perspective of Sansa´s picture:
http://postimg.org/image/8t2pqv4u1/
umuckurlife,
Same thought. The Stannis scroll is clearly the one in front of his desk :p. The time to freak out has come, people!
If from this picture someone is projecting that Sansa is pregnant, (?) than so are Cersi, Mel, Jaqen, and Sam looks to be do any day now.
Satin,
Theon could before he lost at least one finger. I don’t know how much a pinkie would affect one’s grip on an arrow, but I wouldn’t put much money on him being able to do much.
I could be wrong though. I’m wrong a lot.
Chris,
Hahaha I don’t think Sansa looks pregnant here, but it would be a very interesting twist if she were. Sansa is quite maternal in the books, so it would be neat to see that detail be taken a step further in the show.
Salvatore Leone,
Those predictions aren’t even parts of the books.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Maybe they just don’t want to be naked anymore?
Salvatore Leone,
I agree but I mean they really have not shown how she has been trained, just her sweeping and cleaning bodies and shit.
For the Cersei story:
Robb Snow,
Ramsay capturing Brienne and Pod will mean nothing to Jon. The name Reek means nothing. It’ll have to be Theon and Sansa.
As for the Shireen info, it’ll only take a defector or prisoner from Stannis’ camp to tell the Boltons what happened there.
Here is one possibility:
* Ramsay, occupied by the siege, lets his guard down and Sansa sees an opening
* Theon has his “come to Jesus” moment, which could lead to a quick Bran vision cameo OR (my dream) a Sean Bean voice cameo.
* They try to escape
* Ramsay realizes it and tries to stop them. In the struggle, he is wounded (not fatally) by Sansa’s poky thing. He in turn wounds Sansa, but her and Theon still escape.
* Brienne, having had enough of waiting, starts to infiltrate
* Sansa and Theon make it to her, and Sansa lives long enough to tell her Bran and Rickon are alive and to tell Jon at the Wall.
* The group is confronted by Stannis, and Theon allows himself to be captured or killed as a distraction, letting Brienne and Pod escape. Brienne grits her teeth and vows to get Stannis next season!
* Davos, having seen the letter Ramsay writes, withdraws his request for help and leaves the Wall on a suicide run to kill Melisandre and/or Stannis.
* So, FTW happens because of the Wilding stuff alone, not because Jon decides to go help Stannis.
* Brienne and Pod head toward the Wall, and run into Davos. Brienne tells him Stannis is too well-guarded. They agree to team up and find Bran and Rickon.
* Lady Sansa Heart rises.
diop,
That sucks :'(
oh well … :'(
diop,
We can get the gist without Lena Headley, a respected and veteran performer who damn well has earned the right not to be the subject of a bunch of booger-eaters’ spank banks, showing nudity.
Roose On The Loose,
That extra length on a leash is all I was saying.
Geralt of Rivia,
Is that the last track? I don’t have any of the soundtracks. Do they normally have them in order of when they’re used during the season? This one does sound like a final scene to credits rolling song of a finale.
Geralt of Rivia,
I don’t think that will be used on the show. It seems to be similar to season 3’s ‘For The Realm’, which was never used on the show, and was for the soundtrack only.
diop,
Is it true that she also gets into a huge fight with Jaime in the next episode and he then leaves to go find Brienne and Pod? That’s one rumor that I’ve heard.
Arthur,
yes, it was early and i hadn’t had a coffee yet and didn’t read your original post properly, apologies.
That last picture of Cersei looks like she’s up to something again.
Sansa looks terrible. Much as I don’t care much for her character, I don’t want her to be another cold, merciless creation.
Very excited to see how Cersei’s scene ends.
Jaqen knows all.
(Please don’t kill Jorah)
WorfWWorfington,
Jon already knows Bran and Rickon are alive… Tarly met them and told him in the TV show.
diop,
Arthur,
Robb Snow,
I know it has multiple meanings, but still.. it would be anticlimactic if the biggest scene in the entire series for Cersei is 30 seconds
Arthur,
Arya’s training largely consists of performing chores about the HoBaW while practicing spying/lying, learning braavoosi, taking on new IDs through acting, killing the insurance man, taking a new face, and working with poisons. These chapters are largely introspective works about Arya’s inner development while she’s living in an isolated environment. The show has already skirted, merged, or eliminated the need most of the material I described. It makes sense to me that they’d rush right to Mercy since it is a very popular and shocking chapter that sets up her TWoW arc for season 6.
Rat Kook,
Remember, the 61 min runtime includes opening and closing credits. So it’s actually only 58 minutes of actual story.
Sansa is not pregnant.
Sophie Turner has got a fuller face over the 5 years from adolescence to adulthood.
Lena Headey has WAY too many tattoos for the director to use her own naked body for the scene without massively reworking it anyways. Those are the realities. Green screen and a body double was always the only real option.
Robb Snow,
Hold your breath for 30 seconds. It’s a long time.
This isn’t the forum to post this question but its active enough for me to get a response so here goes….
Bring on the Iron Born!!!
No he is right. Think about it the scene has to be short to fit in this storyline overcrowded episode.
Kinda sucks tough- I always tought they keept Lena dressed in the show (unlike Emilia, Carice, Natalie) for the purpose of her nudity beeing impactfull during “the walk”.
Mark,
*starts pulling hair out*
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Are you sure he told Jon? I can’t remember if TV Sam told Jon.
And wasn’t it only Bran?
bigb,
It’s very interesting you said that. I thought the exact same thing in the Hardhome episode and in this photo here.
Satin,
I agree with you but I thought it was cool when she drank that potion that made her blind and she had to learn how to use all her other senses.
And didn’t she warg into a cat?
Do you think Daenerys had her last scene? I was thinking that very first shot in the episode promo of the green mountains would be her’s. When I pause the shot it almost looks like there’s a person on the mountain top on the left side. I was guessing Drogon dropped her off there and she’s watching him fly around. *shrug*
Yep … remember Locke overheard Jon talking to Sam where they could have gone?
Later the Crasters keep mision happens….
WorfWWorfington,
The problem with that is that even if Sansa were to become Lady Stoneheart she’d need someone to raise her, probably Thoros of Myr. Even if Melisandre stumbled over her body, she’s never shown any ability to raise the dead. When she came across Beric, she seemed shocked it had been done once, much less six times. I highly doubt Sansa would arbitrarily resurrect herself.
If we get any kind of Stonehearting, it’s not going to come from a dead person.
Steel_Wind,
And just because the actual WALK is less than 30 seconds doesn’t mean the scenes with the Sparrow, any conversation she has with Kevan or Qyburn or even Tommen (“My Little King”) or the post-walk conversations/reactions all have to be fit into that time.
I know you probably had your hand lotion ready for a full minute on each relevant body part, but get over it.
Maceless Fan,
But that was exactly what happened. 😉
Lena Heady not only has lots of tattoos, but she is pregnant (and was during filming). She is due in July. On re-watching any scene she is in, notice that her belly is always in shadow or covered by her long draping sleeves. There is no way she could have done the nudity, nor should she have had to.
The fun part of her pregnancy is although she has not said who the father of the baby is, she and Pedro Pascal were all over each other last season!!! Hope that it’s a little Oberyn Junior!!!
Steel_Wind,
Have you SEEN Thor Bjornson? He’s got one full sleeve, another 3/4ths sleeve, and they were able to cover those for his topless Mountain scene. There are a lot of makeup options to use to cover up tattoos.
What use is the infamous Pink Letter now? The circumstances changed as soon as show decided to head off on their own path to a season finale. Different situations now exist, and I don’t see what use such a letter now serves.
Ramsey would chase after Sansa if she escaped. He’d not wait, write a letter, tag it to a raven and sent it off to Castle Black. In the show, Ramsey knows her path would be heading directly into Stannis’ encampment. Think about it again.
Would Ramsey go to all the trouble, wasting time, when he could be in hot-headed, hot pursuit of Sansa? He’d be blind furious and bugger anyone who stands in his way, even if that proved to be Roose.
Gosh, I am excited about every single storyline for the finale. I can’t pick. I also know that some of us will be quite surprised. I wonder why no picture was included of Dorne. That is one of the big mysteries in the episode – what happens there for each of the characters? Sansa, Theon, Brienne, Pod and Yara are another big mystery.
Where is Sansa in the pic?
Also – think we need to cover spoilers
BeautyBrinne,
The Hound!
Roberta Baratheon,
hope the scene is still powerful! The moments leading up to it and following it hopefully are amazing
I just wanted to see the character have her big moment, and to see Lena finally get a damn emmy for her work.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Oh yeah!
Rygritte,
I considered it to be a nod to winter weather. After all, that is why winter clothes have hoods: it wasn’t something that GRRM invented!
diop,
Good on her. I’ve been dreading this scene, this makes me feel better.
ZappaCreed,
If Arya does take a new face, I wonder if it might be that little girl she helped to die earlier in the season. I dunno… I like those sorts of connections.
Sansa got out of her room (or someone let her out). What is she looking at?
It looks like there’s a row of bows behind her.
Reavers Wrath,
She is the mother of only one of these 3 the poison expert one Tyene with the short hair.
the others aren’t on screen yet. just books
BeautyBrinne,
In case this of use to you or anyone else complaining GoT is ‘too dark’ (I mean, in terms of lighting, not theme) and that you can’t see anything:
*** Adjust the settings on your TV! ***
Default settings from the manufacturer are ALWAYS ‘too dark’ (in my experience), so keep fiddling with the brightness control. Contrast and color saturation also might need tweaking. The ‘movie theater’ viewing option is especially dark.
Keep experimenting with the relevant controls until you get what you want.
I’m currently watching the show on a low-end Best Buy screen, and everything looks great!
Happy viewing…
Arthur,
Well, she could warg as early as her first ASoS chapter. However, the blinding did enhance other senses and caused her to use her warging abilities an active way in order to defy the KM. But it seems like the show has gone ahead and improved Arya’s perception skills through the thin man test. I can’t tell a girl what she sees~~ lo and behold, Arya carefully becomes immersed in the culture along the docks and recognizes her target and his scheme successfully through her own observations. As for the warging, I wouldn’t hold my breath. I love Nymeria but I don’t hold hope that she’ll come around soon.
The show cut out big portions of Tyrion’s ADWD arc to get him to Dany in 7 hours. And he’s D&D’s beloved. So, I don’t expect Arya’s training to be extended further because she has a plot to get to with the rest. A new face would bring her closer to whatever GRRM has planned.
Eddard Stark II,
I would pay good, good money to see that.
Even if Sansa was pregnant, I doubt she’d be showing so soon.
In the production photos, they showed at least 4 settings for the walk. There was a double doing the nude part. And it was comfirmed that Robert Strong will be there. Don´t see that happening in 30 secs.
Satin,
SHE IS NOT PREGNANT! JESUS! People like the person who started this nonsense are why I fear for my daughters.
BeautyBrinne,
Imagine undead Hound leading the BWB.
Lucius,
I hope its like the books.
I want to see Cersei walk through ghetto slum streets, stepping in horse shit and piss, getting rotten tomatoes thrown at her.
She deserves it!
diop,
Good, more time for the events in the North.
Eddard Stark II,
My nipples could cut glass and my boner could puncture steel at the thought of it.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Headey herself said a while ago that she did not want to do nudity in sex scenes for Cersei, not because she was averse to nudity (noting that she had done it plenty of times before), but instead because it should serve a different purpose for this particular character. At the time, I was pretty sure that she was alluding to the Walk.
However, her pregnancy would have skuppered that. A woman can hide a lot of pregnancy with clothing and camera angles: but even a little pregnancy is pretty obvious a naked woman (particularly one with her build).
I’m not clear , does the show runners , want us to beleive the khallessi never got married or did that marriage happen off screan cause watching all the specials
They said 3 marriages on
the show , in show universe only khallessi never marries hizda hazr . This is another thing that makes me have beef with 5-09
WorfWWorfington,
…that thought makes my nipples hurt. I cannot comment on the other.
Huh? According to the WotW posts tracking S5 filming progress, they filmed the scene in question during the end of Nov/early Dec of last year. If she is going to give birth in early July, she couldn’t have been showing back then.
Hodor’s Bastard,
SHE DOES NOT WANT TO GET NAKED! THAT IS THE END OF IT!
Threads like this are what gives the Mary Sues of the world ammunition. There will be a naked woman on the screen and that woman will be playing Cersei Lannister. End of story.
WorfWWorfington,
Lena is a brilliant actress, so I hope within those 30 seconds, her face can show all the range of emotions that Cersei Lannister goes throughout that walk.
Pride that shatters into desparation
WorfWWorfington,
I was responding to the pregnancy issue, not the nudity issue. Please direct your shouting elsewhere.
I think diop’s friend is wrong. It would be hard to cram all of the things that happen during the Walk into 30 seconds. It’s perfectly understandable if Lena was uncomfortable or unable to shoot much of the Walk herself, but with proper editing and a body double they should easily be able to extend that scene beyond 30 seconds.
WorfWWorfington,
To be fair, it’s not outrageous speculation considering she’s being raped nightly by Ramsay. Without any birth control methods available, pregnancy is a real, and horrifying, possibility for Sansa.
That said, I don’t think she’s pregnant because even Sansa has to benefit from luck from time to time.
You’re confusing this pregnancy with her first one during the series. They did the shooting for The Walk at the end of September/early October. Do the math there when she’s due next month. If she was pregnant at the time she wouldn’t be showing yet. In this article (October 3rd) showing the pictures during filming there’s one with her and Tommen from one week prior showing her in her dress with a belt not showing a pregnant belly.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2779705/Cersei-Lannister-does-naked-walk-shame-Game-Of-Thrones-set.html
for those saying it won’t be cersei as she’s pregnant I’m pretty certain they said in an interview that the walk was filmed on her birthday, which is early October, so she would have *just* got pregnant
Arthur,
um, you know that’s not the same Jaqen from harrenhal though, right? this is a completely different person. this “Jaqen” owes Arya nothing.
Robb Snow,
They also have 2 whole tracks dedicated to this moment
“Atonement” and “Mother’s Mercy”
If the walk itself itself is short, lets hope the moments leading up to and following it are amazing.
Satin,
No, that is logical, and hopefully the old woman was slipping her moon tea.
But the original comment was not made due to that logic. It was made because the person thought Sophie Turner looked fat. That person can put in their false teeth and bite me.
Ok, my bad. But I still hope it’s a little Oberyn Junior!!! 😉
WorfWWorfington,
Cut it out. We’re having a legitimate and amiable discussion about an important scene from the books and its portrayal in the show. If you find it objectionable, feel free to walk away.
So people have completely abandonned spoiler tags
Robb Snow,
Guys. Seriously. Set your phone timers for 30 seconds and see how long it takes. If the actual “naked chick walking and stepping in crap and getting stuff thrown at her” takes 30 seconds, that’s plenty of time.
diop,
Ummm, curious. Why is she not pregnant? What do you know? Apart from not knowing simple biology.
Ya know… european guys dont need hand lotion since we still have our foreskin …
Why americans cut their off is beyond me … i undestand when its a religious thing like with jews and muslims but to cut it off for the sake of cutting it off … madness.
diop,
What about those reports then?
All of the extra privacy, security guards, permits and payoffs added up to a lot of money. The scene was shot over four days in Dubrovnik, Croatia at a cost of $50,000 per day. That adds up to $200,000 just to shoot nudity outside. Despite the expensive price tag for a scene without VFX, Game of Thrones is lucky that the scene moved forward and was shot, at all.”
I think Ramsey will definitely get injured pretty badly maybe that’s how they keep him around but give us some satisfaction. Maybe just Roose gets murked….
Oh I see! I was responding to the pregnancy comments in general. Sophie is quite thin and has no belly in this shot lol. It’s ludicrous to search for such evidence in this picture. A belly isn’t bound to show so early in pregnancy, though.
Seven Hells People! It was a joke.
Rat Kook,
It probably comes down to her feeling uncomfortable getting naked in front of a hundred shouting extras, and who can blame her.
look at this picture:
http://www.fashiongonerogue.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lena-headey-game-thrones-season-5-episode-one.jpg
If she was pregnant at the time of shooting it was not showing.
Are people suggesting Sansa looks pregnant or the Sophie looks pregnant? I mean, it’s rather obvious that Sophie wasn’t or she’d be ‘fully’ pregnant now. I guess it’s not impossible they could make Sansa be, but man, would viewers hate that.
I really feel like there’s too much to fit into 10-episode seasons. They should have ordered 13-episode seasons after season 1 and I imagine the show could have been better for it. This finale is going to be so rushed and it’s going to be weird. Why not 13 episodes? They could have been more faithful to the books.
Arthur,
She did warg into a cat in the books, when she was blind. It was very cool. But I suspect that she won’t do it in the show since it would make her too “overpowered” or whatever. And they’ve seemed to ditch the warg thing for Arya and Jon.
flintwielder,
I didn’t think she was, some other idiot did. That why I made a joke.
BostonDave,
I know that Sophie Turner does not “look” pregnant in that picture, which was the whole reason this thread started. Someone thought she did.
KG,
Not even exaggerating,
but I could find 100+ quotes of D&D and GRRM answering that exact question of why they can’t have more than 10.
Not enough money, not enough time. D&D spend every waking moment of the year on these 10 episodes, and they squeeze HBO to the limits to get enough money to film even this much
and the finale this year is no where near as crammed as “The Children”
i hope its as incredible as that! 🙂
WorfWWorfington,
KG,
I’m probably more surprised that they haven’t done more extended episodes to end seasons. I’m talking like 1 1/2 hours run time, not 75 minutes that includes three minutes of ‘previously on’, opening and credits.
zod,
I remember that article!
Thats why I thought Lena was actually doing it.
I actually remember being surprised by that,
Jaqen isn’t Jaqen? Really? Boy am I dumb, I didn’t realize that. I wondered why he was being such a dick, hitting Arya with sticks and such. Harrenhal Jaqen was better to her; even when she gave him his own name, he didn’t hit her with sticks. There’s a lot I’m not following about the House of B & W. (Black & White, Benioff & Weiss, all the same: different faces when necessary.) Then who is he? the old black man that answered the door? Who cares, as long as the it’s the same actor playing Jaqen. Tom is seriously sweet to look at. (And Tormund, and Jon and Jaime. Hmmm, I think it’s time for me to back away from the laptop and get out a little bit.)
winterisntcomming,
there is nudity
just not lena
KG,
That’s not an option. D&D said they barely manage to finish 10 episodes in time.
Thronetender,
He’s no one~ Jaqen’s face is simply there to make Arya more comfortable, I suppose.
Don´t worry, bro. We know this fandom can get pretty anal about the smallest details.
So your opinion is that she doesn’t look pregnant. You said nothing remotely like that. You were adamant that she was not. Along with some wacked out mention of fearing for your daughters.
Satin,
She could be showing. I doubt she’s pregnant though. What’s weird is the timeline in the show. Back in the pilot Cersei comments that they had ridden months from KL to Winterfell yet this season it seemingly took LF mere days to ride from WF to KL. Plus Gilly’s never-aging baby. Sloppy details that showrunners should be more aware of. Continuity matters.
I really feel like there’s too much to fit into 10-episode seasons. They should have ordered 13-episode seasons after season 1 and I imagine the show could have been better for it. This finale is going to be so rushed and it’s going to be weird. Why not 13 episodes? They could have been more faithful to the books.
jentario,
This. I think fans do not understand basic filmmaking. There are schedules, budgets, and this show has many locations going on simultaneously.
Take for instance,
I sometimes marvel at just how crazy it is that this show happened in the first place.
KG,
*face palm
BostonDave,
Whatever. This started over fat-shaming. Either real fat-shaming or a stupid joke. Keep on defending it. Enjoy. Knock yourself out. No, really.
Re Sansa
I don’t know who started with this
So it’s bullshit, obviously.
Sigh. The Shireen episode got me all uncentered, and I still haven’t recovered. I think I need to scour the freezer for ice-cream. I will forgive myself temporary dizziness. GoT is almost over, I will be back to the world shortly.
KG,
Robert and his entourage probably did not move the fastest, plus Cersei strikes me as the type of wife who will take “I’ve been waiting ALL NIGHT for you to come home” from you getting home at 10:30 p.m.
Lastly, I’ve never figured out how much time is supposed to simultaneous on this show. Are we supposed to believe that at the exact same time Jaime is chatting with Doran, Shireen is burning and Tyrion is watching a gladiator fight?
Or… does Littlefinger’s stuff in King’s Landing all take place well into Sansa-Ramsay’s marriage. Does the Dorne stuff take place while Cersei is still gloating over Margaery?
ya know the soundtrack can start playing while
KG,
Or even 90min season premiers and finales!
I mean there are so many storylines to get going every season and to wrap up.
It would make sense to have 90min openers and closers wouldn’t it?
That is a total of 60mins, basically 1 episodes, increase the budget by 10% of what it would have been, IDK, I also hate all the scenes we have been waiting for to pan out all season being so rushed.
The fact so much stuff seems to be happening makes me question whether anything major will actually happen in Dorne. Gonna be mighty rushed if it does.
Wimsey,
Mother’s Mercy will be the soundtrack in this scenes.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Be a professional, Lena.
Sorry, that’s what you sounded like in my head.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Its her absolute right to stay clothed if she wants.
Its got nothing to do with being “professional”
We can’t fault her in any way.
Im just glad I know this and can temper my expectations.
i look at it like it will be Sir-say lannister on screen, no matter who is depicting her, whether or not its Lena will have absolutely no effect on me
TheTouchOfFrost,
Do you have any idea what you sound like?
Arthur,
Hmm. The only big scene this season I felt was rushed was the fight scene in Dorne.
Hardhome, Daznak, the Stone Men, Cersei’s arrest, Dany and Tyrion were all just the right amount of time.
I would have preferred Tyrion and Jorah to remain slaves for a bit longer, and really experience it but even that wasn’t bad.
I don’t understand why some people feel the season is rushed? Is it because all of the scenes are important?
Im wondering if anyone has any ideas on How does davos find out about shireen, & what will his reaction be?
jentario,
I think it’s because each season has more big moments than the one before. Instead of having a huge thing happen in one episode or two per season, we’re getting them every episode or every other episode. It’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s just when you sit back after an episode airs and think of all that just happened, it’s kind of mind-blowing.
WorfWWorfington,
Well then, you’ve got quite a talent for simplyfying things in your mind.
HelloThere,
She’s an actress and she has done so before plus she has alluded to being quite keen to do it as she feels it adds more to the scene. Sure she can keep clothed if she likes but it goes against what she has previously said and lessens the impact of the scene by her own thought process. I don’t know whether it’s American audiences only who get so riled up about this but there always seems to be uproar about nudity and sex which is pretty harmless stuff in the grand scheme of things but no one bats an eyelid about torture, mutilation,cannibalism and death…lots and lots of vicious, graphic death.
Don’t be scared, folks. It’s only a pair of boobs.
jentario,
I haven’t felt like things were rushed this season. I am just stating that with the huge amount of characters and storylines this show has going on I think it would be a good thing to let the premiers and finales run 80-90mins.
That would give more time to catch-up with all the storylines and then more time to have them all neatly packed away until next season.
Just a wish.
BeautyBrinne,
Someone who disagrees with you I assume?
Roose On The Loose,
Yea, it doesn’t matter
I think Sansa and Reek
Dany meets the Dothraki, John gets stabbed, Arya goes blind, Cersei is picked up by Gregorstein, Jaimie who the fuck knows. I think they will leave Varys and Kevan out until next season.
Everything is such a bummer I can’t figure out what hopeful note it could end on or if it will just be the most depressing GOT season of all time 🙂
MaesterMercy,
I bet Jon Reads the “Pink Letter” or whatever with Davos present, then says something like “And there’s something here you would want to know” and hands him the letter with a sympathetic look.
TheTouchOfFrost,
No, you sound like someone swinging a pair of Mardis Gras beads around yelling ‘BOOOOOOBS!’ It doesn’t matter if we see them or not. They’re hers. Even if she’s shown them before, if she doesn’t want to do it now, nothing will be lost from the story. I know she’s said she’s fine with nudity before, but she’s allowed to change her mind. It has absolutely nothing to do with her professionalism.
I’m American, yes, but personally I don’t get riled up by breasts. I deal with them every single day without getting the vapors.
MaesterMercy,
Only theory I can come up with regarding the how: some guys desert Stannis because of the burning and go straight to the Wall rather than face execution. Davos recognises them and asks what they’re doing there.
Naw… Davos has his sort of honor, but he’s a smuggler. He already read the shit out of that letter; no way would Stan include that info. Furthermore, it wouldn’t further the purpose of the letter to have Jon know he’s deciding whether or not to send help to a child-burner.
You SJWs are really too much. There was no fat shaming. You should stop “man shaming” for normal people wanting to see what’s under a hot chicks hood.
As to Headey, if you want to see her naked download 300.
Melisandre has reason to be happy. Shireen has made the ultimate sacrifice to save the Seven Kingdoms. It’s a triumphant moment, the ultimate entreatment to the Lord of Light.
Clob,
I’m almost certain that is Moat Calin, none of the main protagonists are anywhere near there at the moment (maybe Littlefinger), but my wild guess is…
Arthur,
I disagree. That track is the end credits. I don’t usually listen to the soundtrack. Do they use vocals in the show very often? I only remember that in the Mysha scene when Dany crowd surfs.
jentario,
Jaqen: “It just so happens there is a contract for Meryn Trant. Let’s see what a girl can do.”
Arthur,
Why a year? didn’t Liam say he finds out in so 10?
Maybe we’re not giving Davos enough credit. He knew what was going to happen when he left without Shireen/Selyse, per Stannis’ orders. He may have already lost hope with his “king” and won’t return.
Arthur,
I’d also love that, don’t get me wrong
Ravyn,
Yeah I didn’t know that though…
Plus he will probably find out at the wall with Jon, I want to see him go face to face with Stannis and ask him how he could do that and that he has become a monster and unswear his fealty and take the black.
Something like that with those two actors going toe to toe.
If that happens we will have to wait a year.
BeautyBrinne,
You seem to be getting pretty riled up here which suggests that you really don’t have a very mature attitude towards discussing nudity.
Also stop trying to put words in my mouth.
Stripping away (unfortunate use of words) all the issues around nudity, do you think the scene will be more powerful/memorable if we see that it is unquestionably Lena/Cersei doing the walk naked?
Tiny direwolf
I agree
This episode should have been 70 minutes. I still think that this will become the most intense hour of Thrones ever.
The Jaqen shot makes me think he’s at a point where
No, I don’t.
Holy fuck.
I’ve been on vacation and was actually looking forward to reading around here upon my return. Unfortunately, most of what I’ve read consists of some probable troll posting what’s most likely bullshit about Lena refusing to even wear flesh-colored clothing (the post was almost plausible until that), people whining about maybe not getting to see Lena nude (why don’t you just wait to watch the episode, before going on and on about how disappointing it is), sniping at each other about how they perceived a particular comment, and no one bothering to cover huge book spoilers. I’ve read the books, but it absolutely sucks Unsullied can’t come to this thread to discuss the finale without being spoiled.
As much as I’m sorry the season is almost over, I look forward to the off-season when this place is a lot more fun!
Don’t tell me HBO and D&D can’t afford to write/produce 3 additional episodes per season? They can afford it. This show has become a hollow shell of the books that inspired it. I mean, really?
GRRM recently remarked on his site that he wished GOT had been adapted more like Outlander, with 8-episode half-seasons, 16 total episodes per year. It would have maybe done his work proper justice than the mostly banal filler D&D have been giving us all throughout Season 5. GRRM said he wished D&D would return to the Riverlands eventually. They probably won’t because it seems liked they’d rather write their own fanfic at this point.
This has been the most disjointed season to date. Sure, Hardhome was pretty cool, still doesn’t make up for the decision to have Stannis burn Shireen over a few burnt horses and supplies. He would have sooner eaten the dead men than sacrifice his own daughter in the books. It was not aligned with the character of book Stannis at all. Why even take the Iron Throne with no heir? If Shireen burns in the books, I imagine Mel will do it without his consent, considering geographically their respective locations.
And look at Dorne. It was a running joke all season. Did you enjoy Dorne? They butchered the plot from the books. They removed Arianne, they removed the complexity of Dorne that distinguished it from other kingdoms in the realm. They didn’t even touch on the fact that in Dorne, female heirs can ascend to the throne. They portrayed Dornish women either as sluts, or so hell-bent on revenge that it blinded their humanity. Ellaria threw a tantrum when she found out she couldn’t mutilate and torture the innocent child Myrcella. Huge departure from book Ellaria. The only redemption was Alexander Siddig’s very few performances.
You honestly don’t think the finale will be rushed? Not even a little bit?
Keep making excuses for D&D. The “streamlining” of plots this season hasn’t even remotely showed any respect to the content of the books. They’re doing their own thing now. And the changes from the books haven’t made sense most of the time. I was excited about this season, but it was a stunning disappointment.
I’m so sorry that I care about the books. I cannot defend the bizarre changes that Benioff&Weiss have made. They’re butchering a beautiful piece of literature that many people love. Perhaps I would feel differently if the vast majority of changes hadn’t been so nonsensical.
Show-apologists can attack me. I don’t care. Team #NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS all the way.
you may be right, i just feel like Davos would rather die trying to get her out than just leave knowing that was going to happen and doing nothing and have to live with that the rest of his life
Not that either the show or the books are sticklers for time, but only about a month or two has passed between E6 and E10 (based on Stannis’s march, Jon’s trip to Hardhome, etc). Realistically I don’t think Sansa could be showing yet even if she were impregnated immediately, especially through such thick clothes.
I agree, this season needed more episodes (but not 20!). Thirteen or so sounds about perfect.
Geralt of Rivia,
I agree with this. I’m thinking
.
But I wouldn’t be surprised if something has to go. If so the penultimate scene in my scenario is the only possibility. I can’t see the last one being cut and the first two are basically confirmed.
I always wish we could have more time, but D&D and the rest of the GoT production team make ten hours of film-quality television every year on several continents with lavish production design and enormous casts… Personally I think we’re lucky to get what we get. 🙂
I’m ridiculously excited for the season finale this year. I appear to be in the minority in that I think Season 5 has been fantastic (although I -grudgingly- agree that one downside was that lame Sand Snake hand to hand combat scene), and as someone who has NO IDEA what’s coming up… I don’t read spoilers… I just know it’s going to be a long three month wait until next spring.
BeautyBrinne,
I do. There we go. It was just a difference of opinion on that aspect. No need to attach all the other non-related issues 🙂
Off-Topic Otto,
Yes. I agree. That would solve some of the pacing issues and not make it all feel so rushed. This is the season finale. They could have tacked on 10 additional minutes, at least.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
You’re right. I’m sorry for my part in it. It’s easy to get hot-headed, especially when you’re not face-to-face with people.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Fair enough. I have to go tilt at some more windmills now 🙂
There were the early video interviews of Iwan and Stephen covered in blood with lots of snow in the background, so something is coming in episode 10.
I completely agree!! Even GRRM wishes for slightly longer seasons. He said he envies Outlander’s format. That’s a big deal, coming from him.
Since no one else is using spoiler tags, I mostly gave up using them as well. No point in using a spoiler tag on something that the commenter just above me didn’t bother to.
g4,
What’s so bad about her looks in those pictures?
only 60 minutes? are you fucking kidding me???
they have to get through SO much stuff.
im calling it now, EVERYTHING will seem rushed.
Remember Tyrions escape last season? Remember how shit it was because it felt so rushed? Now imagine this whole god damn episode playing out like that. Ugh.
KG,
and he always ends those wishes w/ “but we can’t”
Yeah, that would make sense. I totally agree and I wish it would happen. 🙁
That is exactly what Headey said and on top of that there are multiple pictures from the filming of that sequence and it’s safe to say it’s huge. diop (or their friend) is just full of it.
KG,
It’s not about money, it’s about time. They can’t produce more than 10 episodes and have the new season ready to be released every Spring. This has always been the reasoning, and they have given examples of episodes not being fully completed until mere days before they air. I doubt 2 or 3 episodes would have changed their decision not to include Manderly or LS or the Ironborn this season. At this point, the show is the show, and the books are the books. Both have their detractors.
BeautyBrinne,
Give ’em hell…the flour-making bastards! 😛
I.m starting to think that nothing too dramatic can happen in Dorne as there’s not really that much time to do it in w ith all th other stuff going on! I think the big change thing Miss Henwick was going on about will be a reveal as opposed to a death…but who knows really?!
What if sansa is preggers, slits her own throat in failed rescue attempt, is brought to life by thoros or mel, then undead sansa stoneheart gives birth to…?!?
I don’t know how to do the spoiler tags.
That’s true. I really hope the final season is split up into something akin to the Sopranos-style final season format. That would be cool. I can’t imagine the final season only being 10 roughly 60-min episodes. Maybe a 2-hour final episode. I know logistically it’s a nightmare, but after Hardhome I think they can pull anything off.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I have thoughts on what Tyene was talking about. I think it’s
.
Ha! Well said 🙂
Also…I can’t see Mel making it to the wall in time for things that may happen there especially if she’s with Stannis as he attacks WF. Could Davos somehow take her perceived role of what she might do there somehow?….yeah…I think that’s vauge enough.
This might of been pointed out already, but those bows in the Sansa picture are the same kind that Stannis’s soldiers use in the preview. This probably doesn’t mean anything, since I think I remember the Northern bows looking pretty similar to these.
Joseph Nobles,
https://watchersonthewall.com/faq/. Number 3.
LOL, how to do spoilers is only at the top of every comment section.
BeautyBrinne,
I’ve certainly gotten hot-headed from time to time…my first post back wasn’t exactly sunshine and rainbows. I’m just excited for the finale and was looking forward to reveling in that excitement.
I did learn something very cool on my trip, though…
My 78 year-old stepfather is a big Game of Thrones fan, and he wants a “Hodor” shirt (which I’ll be sending him in a few days). 🙂
BeautyBrinne,
Possibly. I’m not sure what killing Myrcella would accomplish for the plot (also be odd to recast her for such a small role). Losing an appendage would work for all intents and purposes though. Plus she could have some banter with Jaime and Tyrion about Lannisters losing body parts!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Oh my GOD. I couldn’t watch GoT with my grandparents. One of us would stroke out.
Are the spoiler codes not working? Mine didn’t seem to work. Sorry.
Yeah, that’s very true. I suppose also the Outlander format of 8 episodes in the fall, then 8 episodes in the spring would logistically be unrealistic for GoT due to all the VFX and battles. That would be amazing though if the last season was 16 episodes total, split up, first 8 aired in the spring and then the remaining 8 aired in the fall. It’s wishful thinking on my part, thought.
KG,
HBO is already on record saying something like they wish D&D wanted to go past 7 seasons but they don’t interfere with these kind of choices.
If D&D came to HBO with something like a 7 episode season 7A and 7 episode season 7B (that’s a lot of sevens) HBO would be like… “OKAY PLEASE!”
And on top of that, if D&D said something like… “And we really want to go out with a bang so we will need a 50% budget increase for both part A and B so we can have Drogon flying, White Walkers, Dire Wolves and all the other fantasy elements coupled with epic battle scenes… HBO would be like… “YES PLEASE!”
So I can’t see why D&D wouldn’t push for something like this, some epic final season.
They always say this is their dream job and once in a lifetime opportunity. Yes they must be so taxed by it, they live, eat and sleep GoT, but if you’re going to do it, do it right, end with a freaking bang.
COME ON D&D FANTASY NERDS EVRYWHERE NEED THIS!
Hey you guys,
WHAT IF….
Some people love to hate Ramsay, ‘n hate to hate Stannis.
And all of them love to love Davos ‘n Shireen.
This might be crazy, but I e been thinking about the time constraints and I’m wondering for the first time if
ooh?! That would be intense! I wonder then if davos will set off to avenge shireen?
Arthur,
In that picture Daario is just about to do his Euron Greyjoy reveal……..
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Hahaha well, this is a bit off topic, but most people do it because it lowers the risk of contracting a disease or an infection.
Yes, I think everybody should stop complaining about spoiler code until the instructions are where they belong: at the point of commenting. It’s bad design. When there’s bad design and people act accordingly, it’s not the people’s fault.
Al Swearengen,
Yeah, he’s pulling an eye-patch out of his sleeve.
that works great as well 🙂
Rat Kook,
Isn’t this Lena?
Also both these articles indicate she might have actually done the scenes
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Cersei-Game-Thrones-Nude-Scene-Cost-How-Much-Shoot-67684.html
http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/06/game-of-thrones-nude-scene-cersei-lena-headey-naked-security/
Though these are not reliable sources.
Again, im not being pervy about wanting to see Lena’s tits. The Walk of Shame is my favorite chapter and I want it done justice. I don’t care if the entire walk is just her face as long as its done well… Its not like the pages of the novel have tits
Moonlight,
If you take good care of your old fella then it has exactly the same effects as having the snip minus the complications of the actual procedure!
I’m thinking Jorah can pull out a harmonica, Daario a banjo, and Tyrion could lead a sing along at this point.
type “spoiler” in square brackets [ ] before what you want to hide, and “/spoiler” in square brackets [ ] after. Do not use triangle brackets. This latter point is confusing because all the other items like italics use triangles.
KG,
Basically, they are almost doing the equivalent of the Lord of the Rings trilogy annually. Otis not quite as CGI heavy: but It is much more so than any comparable program.
HelloThere,
You didn’t get that version? ;P
Wimsey,
Are you familiar with The Bloody Cloak theory?
Arthur,
spoiler?
Salvatore Leone,
I do believe he arrived at it via the Path of Sarcasm.
BeautyBrinne,
No, no, no, no, no…I didn’t watch it with him. I couldn’t watch GoT with him, as that would, well, just be way too awkward.
I watched it while he was sleeping, and he watches it with his lady-friend.
Off-Topic Otto,
Just because you don’t like where the spoiler code is located doesn’t give you an excuse not to use it. It isn’t like it is some complicated undertaking, and most people, once they figure out what it is, are more than capable of remembering it.
Latest nugget from GRRM on his ‘Not a Blog’:
http://grrm.livejournal.com/429752.html#comments
Meanwhile, other wars are breaking out on other fronts, centered around the last few episodes of GAME OF THRONES. It is not my intention to get involved in those, nor to allow them to take over my blog and website, so please stop emailing me about them, or posting off-topic comments here on my Not A Blog. Wage those battles on Westeros, or Tower of the Hand, or Boiled Leather, or Winter Is Coming, or Watchers on the Walls. Anyplace that isn’t here, actually.
Yes, I know that THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER named me “the third most powerful writer in Hollywood” last December. You would be surprised at how little that means. I cannot control what anyone else says or does, or make them stop saying or doing it, be it on the fannish or professional fronts. What I can control is what happens in my books, so I am going to return to that chapter I’ve been writing on THE WINDS OF WINTER now, thank you very much.
is 60 minutes CONFIRMED?!
Ser Matt the Sullen,
61 minutes
and its enough time
“The Children” was far more packed than this one.
g4,
Nasty case of Caligynephobia you’ve got there.
DarkHart,
Is “cannot control what others say” a reference to Linda at Westeros?
That’s interesting considering a year ago she was asked in an interview about how she feels about possibly doing nudity in the future
DarkHart,
He’s tired of people flooding the comment sections of his posts with off-topic comments/questions about how the show messed something up(in their eyes). This week it was people complaining about what happened with Stannis.
Hodor’s Bastard,
They have to have
TheTouchOfFrost,
Haha well, I’m not a man and I don’t have any sons, but I guess it’s just a cultural thing.
KG,
As has been stated repeatedly over the years, to maintain the quality level D&D want, 10eps are all they can humanly do. I know it’s easy to sit in a room behind a computer and say Just do more episodes, but in the real production world, that’s more money, time, scheduling talent, and a million other logistics. As GRRM recently said, “Dan and Dave work on this 24/7 all year as it is”. Be grateful you get 10 and not the 8 like True Detective.
Què pasò con la escena censurada de Cercei en una iglesia?
quit the name calling and personal attacks before Sue destroys you with the ban hammer
rampage,
And also, Lena is gorgeous
Ginevra,
In this sea of absurdity, your comments often make me 🙂 . We can only hope!
How serendipitous, assuming that she got to spend her birthday in her birthday suit.
fosho,
I really have to LOL at everyone with their “ONLY 61 MINUTES?? IT WILL ALL BE RUSHED” comments. One thing you people could consider, but probably won’t, is fact that we now have 6 storylines. Meereen, Braavos, Dorne, KL, Winterfell and the Wall. That’s right, only SIX. Compare that with High Sparrow, an episode that is one minute shorter but features an equal amount of storylines (the Wall, KL, Braavos, Tyrion, Sansa/Winterfell, Brienne). Yet nobody considered that episode rushed.
Ok, so rationally it’s not about the number of storylines. Might it be because there’s too many “important scenes”? Many people here somehow assume that important equals really long. Which is obviously not the case, per se.
Let’s break down the 6 storylines, then, reducing the actual episode to 58 minutes:
2. Braavos: There’s two things that need to be done here. Arya has to kill Meryn Trant, and she has a scene with Jaqen in the Hall of Faces. Let’s be generous and give both those scenes 4 minutes (about as long, if not longer than the “slow” washing the bodies scenes). So that’s 8 minutes in Braavos as well.
3. Dorne: This is quite a big mystery, but we cannot assume they’ll spend more than 10 minutes there (even if there’s some killing, which I doubt). We’ll get a Doran with the SS scene and a Jaime scene. Compare that with the length of the scenes from the last episode and that’s long enough. But ok, let’s be generous again and give Dorne 10 minutes.
4. The Wall: There really isn’t that much ground to cover here. Basically, Jon has to send Sam away and FTW has to happen when Davos talks to him. Let’s give both those scenes four minutes. 8 minutes for the Wall.
5. King’s Landing: Cersei has to talk to the High Sparrow, do the Walk, we’ll have the Varys scene, and I presume we’ll see a small scene between Margaery and Tommen and possibly a scene between Kevan and Cersei (maybe with Tommen) that transitions into the Varys scene. I see no reason for all of this to take more than 10 minutes.
6. Winterfell: Kept this one for last because obviously we haven’t got a clue what will hapen here (it might even be a cliffhanger like in ADWD). Still, we’ve got 14 minutes remaining. Considering Daznak is 20 minutes, 14 minutes for whatever takes place here should be enough I’d say.
I’m ready for some rational counter-arguments.
Stop with the body shaming, so so so tacky.
After thinking of the Sansa pic and reading one particular comment, did anyone else briefly think that the bow room she’s in could lead to another hunting expedition? I think someone mentioned Myranda being in the finale…
Dutch maester,
Cant fault your logic mate, nice work.
The morons criticising Lena’s body should stop a moment and think what their own bodies would look like on screen for fellow morons to criticise.
Dutch maester,
I agree. The episode doesn’t feel like it will be too short to me.
As for a more general comment about the seasons being too short: more content does not make for better quality. A common complaint among most fans is that the early episodes are too slow and talky. The solution is not to add scenes, which is more likely to dilute the quality of the show than anything else.
SARS,
I totally forgot about Myranda, I am sooo scared for Sansa now.
LordDavos,
Pretty sure it’s the same guy posting under different names.
TheTouchOfFrost,
I try not to complain about what I felt was overtly gratuitous nudity in the first few seasons because I didn’t want to sound like a broken record for the thousands of others who made that complaint. But after the first two seasons, it’s likely every actress wanted a no-nudity clause, and for good reason!
However, there are moments where nudity is absolutely not gratuitous, and this moment is one of the largest of those in the entire series. They need not show Cersei’s boobs, and I would really love not to see all of her, but they could tastefully give a shot of her backside and the crowd reactions to her. They could film the front showing only her face. I’m not saying they have to do that, but that would be tasteful and appropriate and completely in keeping with what this scene really demands.
Shaz,
Yeah, I had a sinking feeling after reading the comment that made me think of that. Should be interesting, though.
Perhaps Myranda is going to be the huntee this time round ?
where you get that will be just
SARS,
I’m hoping if she doesn’t f@*# up Ramsay, she uses that corkscrew on Myranda. I mean they showed her picking it up for a reason…
So,what kind of magic is Mel going to do with Shireen’s sacrifice,another shadow baby? Also,why didn’t she do it when they burned Mance? Infact they should have taken Mance with them and burned him instead of Shireen.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Are we sure that Davos knew? I wasn’t sure if he even suspected.
I’m not interested in see anything body shaming garbage posts here. Cut that shit out. Lena is gorgeous. Just stop.
This exactly. She has been saying that for years. Her suddenly refusing this would be weird. In a later interview she says ‘of course i used a body double’.
Seriously?! Body doubles should be banned. I can understand why you use a stunt double or a stand in but there is actually nothing dangerous about getting naked. If you dont want to do it (while its in your contract) you are in direct breach of your contract. Now in practice of course she can just do this cause there must be clauses and what not and they are not going to sue Lena Headey over this.
But the scene will be ruined. It had to the most powerful and vulnerable scene for her and it sounded like she was prepared. Guess not.
Which is odd since she did tons of nudity before in 300 as mentioned as well as Aberdeen. (full frontal actually). Clearly she wasnt shy in the past and she wasnt last year. So one can only wonder what changed.
As for the tattoos… make up can cover all that no problem at all…
This should cost her any chance on an emmy really if you ask me. Since its just bad acting. Now we havent seen it of course but if there is anything distracting of such an important scene its a body double.
Pernik,
By the preview, it seems like she is using the weather breaking(shot of an icicle melting) as one of the rewards of the sacrifice.
Ginevra,
I think Davos had a gut feeling.
I don’t think he thought Stannis would actually do it but I am guessing he had that uneasy feeling, just like all of us did up until it actually happened.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Liam Cunningham’s interview makes it pretty clear that he didn’t know (and it would be completely out of character for Davos to just leave if he did).
I think the thought probably crossed Davos’s mind but I don’t think he really believed Stannis would go that far. He was probably more concerned about Shireen’s welfare in terms of the coming battle or another attack by Ramsay.
Some pretty nasty and frankly uncalled-for attitudes in this thread. Not a fan.
While I haven’t seen her say this in any interviews, I’m pretty sure Lena just didn’t want to do a nude scene
Amen. Geez.
I don’t think Dany will land in Dorne this season. However, since the name of the episode usually relates to several story lines, I expect Dany to unchain the other 2 dragons and let them out into the sunlight. That would be a form of “Mother’s Mercy.”
Also, I think that the dragons will not be full grown when they reach Westeros – we don’t have enough episodes left to wait for that. Therefore, they will be vulnerable, as Drogon was in the Pit, until they are much bigger.
Sue the Fury,
Sean C.,
Hmmm. Davos was given a direct order by Stannis to leave (for a slightly illogical reason), then we had the stag gift scene. He initially resisted (which implies a sense of dark comprehension), If he didn’t know, or as Arthur put it, have a gut feeling, about it, then I’m very surprised. I thought Davos was preparing for the worst when he visited her before he left.
Rody,
You’re not entitled to see her nude. Especially not just because she’s done nudity before.
There is a huge difference between doing a nude scene on a closed set and feeling safe, and doing
Moonlight,
Don’t agree with the practice myself but can’t see it changing anytime soon. Does annoy me when people (quite rightly) go on about female genital mutilation but the male equivalent is widely accepted. But that’s a conversation for another place!
Ginevra,
I’m on the whole , quite forgiving of the amount of nudity in the show. It’s there to show how raw and base the society is and how women are generally seen as being sex objects and not much more.It’s not pretty but it’s the truth of the world. Again, I’m not sure why everyone is so bothered by nudity. Really is nothing that controversial about naked humans and the act of making love. There’s only been a couple of times I think they have used it a bit cheaply ( As lovely as Tyene’s bewbs are I thought that scene this season was quite corny). The Cersei scene coming up is probably the most justified use of nudity in the entire book/show so I hope it’s done convincingly.
Also, anyone who doesn’t think Lena has a perfectly fine body has never been with nor been a real woman. Don’t think we need worry though as I can’t imagine her giving two f*cks about what a few gobshites on the internet think about her attractiveness.
It is. (Was. He’s banned now.)
And reminder:
Please user spoiler coding in this thread!
Roose On The Loose,
Thanks! I am getting increasingly tired of a certain group of people on here constantly shouting without thinking. So I did that for them. Thankfully I can now re-use my post in the coming days when people start shouting again 😛
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I really hope It’s more than just melting the snow. They’re going to need more than nice weather to take Winterfell from the Boltons. Now I want Stannis to take the throne and save the kingdom. That way Shireen’s death would actually mean something. It would be tragic but meaningful,but this is GoT they’ll probably go for just tragic.
[Edited, because I see it’s already been addressed – Thanks, Sue.]
Sansa in that picture is wearing a dress with a very high (Empire?) waist and a stylized Bolton symbol crossing her chest. That’s a style that can make even a very slender woman like Sophie look a little bit pregnant, because it creates the illusion of a curved upper belly. I don’t think she looks pregnant at all myself, but I guess I can see how someone might: certainly I’ve heard plenty of people cite exactly that illusion as their reason for not wearing high-waisted dresses.
She’s hooded not only because it is supposed to be cold out, but also because it drives home the idea that Sansa is undercover, a Stark hiding in the Bolton fold. Notice also how heavy and stiff her Bolton clothes are, how devoid of color, and how they obscure the shape of her body — same idea. It’s using the costuming to reinforce her position in the story. I doubt it’s meant to be any sort of reference to LS.
Sue the Fury,
He never said he was entitled to see her body. He said that in his opinion, the scene wouldn’t have the same weight if a double was used. I don’t agree with that personally, because as you say her acting is what is key, not the body itself. Nonetheless there was no entitlement in his post, and your endless moralizing is unnecessary. You are an administrator of the site, and as such a valued member of the community, but incessantly reprimanding people for having opinions you dislike is tiresome.
Ah ha! I see now!
is The Ghost of Winterfell!
I don’t think Sansa looks pregnant in that picture, but considering it is weeks or perhaps even longer after she’s been married, there is a reasonable chance that she could be pregnant with a Bolton heir. Would Stannis come to that same conclusion and what would he do? Would he consider her a Stark or a Bolton?
I could see Littlefinger’s plan backfiring. Stannis learns Bran and Rickon are alive and Stannis considers Sansa a Bolton and expendable. So, essentially Sansa’s show plot excursion ends up putting her back where she is in the books or
It’s not totally clear, but in interviews, Tom Wlaschiha has answered questions indicating that this IS the same Jaqen as we met at Harrenhal.
SUE THE FURY
Thank you so much for being diligent and shutting the more nasty and obnoxious stuff down fast. I remember last week when some jerk posted something about Karsi’s uterus freezing. I gasped — and then noted that you handled that one quickly and fair. kudos
Stacia,
I remember reading an interview Sophie did a while ago (I don’t have the link, unfortunately) where she let it slip that Sansa is “living for her brothers.” That makes me think that she will tell someone about them (Brienne, Stannis, Davos, etc.) and send them out to find them.
Ser Matt the Sullen,
I don’t remember. I saw how great it was regardless of missing stuff from the books. You purist will fade away soon enough.
Maybe I’m being overly optimistic here, but I hope we get our first good episode of the season in the finale. A little pay off for the clumsy writing, cliches, botched story lines (Dorne!) and all the character assassinations would be nice.
His posts read like entitlement, hence my choice of words. It’s funny- it sounds like you’re trying to control my opinions. Did I say that he wasn’t allowed to have an opinion or that I was going to ban him for it? No. I stated disagreement with what he posted. And that is my right as a member of this community. I had strong opinions about GoT/ASOIAF long before I modded WiC or co-founded this site.
Dutch maester,
Winterfell : 15 mins (3 short scenes then a long sequence of 8 minutes merging Sansa, Theon, Brienne, Podrick, Stannis and The Boltons)
King’s Landing : 13 mins (1 scene, 2 very quick ones and 2 scenes)
Wall : 8 mins (2 scenes)
Braavos : 8 mins (very short scene then 2 scenes)
Dorne : 7 mins (2 scenes, this better be worth it)
Meereen : 7 mins (2 scenes)
That would be my ideal screentime for this episode, Winterfell, KL and The Wall are crucial to make this one a success. Meereen is the least important, it’s the only storyline that has reached its climax. It doesn’t need more than 7 minutes.
No, they would have been traveling in those large wagons with lot of supplies. I think that they even had foot soldiers.
A small number of horsemen able to get fresh steeds frequently (and LF certainly is not lacking for funds or connections) would make up the same distance in much, much less time.
Well, remember that basically a year is passing per year on the show. Of course, we have no idea how long it takes dragons to grow, but these guys seem to be growing at a pretty impressive rate.
As for Drogon in the pit, those spears were not getting past his scales too far. As hard as they were thrown, Daeny was still able to easily yank one out: and that suggests that it didn’t penetrate very far. (A spear embedded into muscle would be tough to get out, and also hurt the person/dragon like hell: and if it actually got into bone, well, damn.) So, that suggests that the armor Drogon has now is pretty good.
Quite honestly, it looks like someone snuck up behind her and gave her one hell of a wedgie. Of course, I’m not sure you could give wedgies with garments from that era. Still, is there any chance that Arya snuck up there? 😉
I always thought it was the same Jaqen, or atleast the same person wearing the Jaqen face anyway.
Ozy,
Both our versions show there’s more than enough time per storyline.
Roose On The Loose,
I’ve always thought so too…
That guy has taking such a special interest in Arya, he knows her story, her family’s history and her desire for revenge. Plus she saved his ass…
IDK, I see their relationship as much deeper then just him being a professional mentor.
Lol honestly can’t tell if this is a serious post
tiny direwolf,
I’m not sure if it matters, but if you click on the episode on HBO’s website, Conleth Hill is listed in the cast.
Reminds me of Cartman’s christian rock album cover Faith +1.
Jump Myranda.
It’s the same dude.
So many are too short.
My most excited thoughts are how Davos is going to confront Stannis.
He loved that little girl! I know he is going to go back there after he finds out on the wall.
Shit, he might even attack Stannis, be suicidal, at this point I don’t think he cares. I just can’t wait to see that drama unfold. I just hope Stannis lets him leave, take the black, and he goes about his story with Jon Snow.
to unlock her door and stab a bitch.
Pernik,
Why didn’t they just leech Shireen? Endless supply of king’s blood.
Anybody know what Ellaria wants so much vengeance against so many people about? Oberyn lost in a fair fight to the mountain. Is she kinda nuts or am I missing something?
And Doran mentioned four nieces. Is he counting the sandsnake girls as loose sort of “nieces”? And even if so that still leaves one unaccounted.
Your post is part of the reason.
i’m gonna assume that you don’t mean jump her in the way my food deprived mind went to :/
I think it’s fucked up that any job requires nudity.
I’m beginning to doubt she’ll be nominated (her prison scenes have been so short), but whoever came up with her looking sideways at Lancel TWICE deserves an Emmy.
I totally get burkas.
Sue the Fury,
It would be a bit odd if he was wearing a face UNDER the Jaqen face underneath the older black man’s face when he reveals himself at the HOBW. I mean, layering is good for winter and all, but pretty sure it’s the same Jaqen as well. 🙂
I know that many people feel that
Roose On The Loose,
Sansa is gonna feel froggy and jump a bitch!
When Davos returns from the Wall, he will see Shireen’s burnt frozen body clutching the stag at the abandoned camp. He will weep, vomit, and curse before running into Brienne & Pod.
KG,
They film from July – December. Presumably they write from January – April, Casting and pre-production from April – July, Post Production from December – May (last year it was June). Where do you see time for 6 more episodes in that schedule. They would literally never stop working for 8 years straight. I would love 16 episodes a year though..
What’s more plausible for season 7 would be if HBO told them they had 90 minutes every Sunday night and they don’t have to fill up that whole time slot. I feel like they have a good amount of cut material.
Fair fight yes. But in modern day you would be angry at me for suing your ass regardless how “fair” the system is. Now imagine your loved one dying to that system, Sprinkle a little bit of We hate Lannisters mentality and boom! You Mad?
Off topic: we just lost one of the longstanding UnSullied from TWOP/Previously.tv
He/she posted their resignation from the spitball wall.
Shireen, Sansa rape, lack of development in KL etc, being a Stannis fan was his/her reason.
RIP WhiteStumblr
Though his/her ire towards the show “retconning” is petty. I dolt understand why Littlefinger’s Wardenness of the North comment pissed him/her off so much.
As much as I am enjoying this season, I feel that two seasons to plot out Feast and Dance a bit more might have been a good idea. Or it might have been worse. We will never know.
He wouldn’t get it though.
Only some of us are chosen to understand the difference between picking up a book and reading about Arya dreaming of Nymeria vs popping in a disc and watching Bri and The Hound fight.
One requires an imagination and the other a full team with limited money and time.
Rygritte,
I have no idea. Maybe the kind of magic she’ s going to do requires death by fire? Or maybe she thought
Joshua Atreides,
I don’t blame him/her. But there’s no time for pity. Only forward we must go. We’re heading towards the horror and the darkness that never ends. Only for the strong
My Two penneth:
Ice Thaws & Stannis gets ready to march. 2 mins
Boltons prepare for siege. 2 mins
Aftermath in Meereen. 3 mins
Cersei and Kevan : 2 mins
Davos somehow finds out about Shireen (poss’ at wall): 2 mins
Theon and Sansa fuck things up for Boltons and Brienne gets involved leaving Boltons looking weak and battle results ambiguous. 5 mins
Some Dorne hopefully ending in Myrcella attack. 5 mins
Cersei and High Sparrow, confession: 2 mins
T and S escape winterfell; 2 mins
Arya Does Trent; 5 mins
Jon receives pink letter, talks to Sam sends Sam away, some nights watch rumblings: 3 mins
Davos (with Umbers maybe…) captures T and S. Sansa gets him to get Bran and Rickon. 4 mins
Dorne with Doran’s Fire and Blood: 4 mins
Arya goes blind: 4 mins
Cersei Walk of Shame: 2 mins
Kevan Pycelle and Varys: 4 mins
Dany meets the Khalesar: 3 mins
For the Watch: 5 mins
Fun bit of epeculation…
KG,
I want to say that THAT KG is not THIS KG.
Look for the fiery avatar – accept no substitutes!
Pernik, Maybe. She probably didn’t have any leeches, but she could have cut her arm over a fire. The amount of blood probably makes a difference since Mirri Maz needed a horse to put Khal in a coma. The method of giving blood to the fire is probably like a spell.
KG,
I was so confused!
ctid,
Umm…. what would be “tight sort” of nieces? Why are they “loose” sort of nieces? They are his brother’s daughters – so, just nieces, yeah? Not “nieces”.
KG,
I was wondering what the hell was going on. I noticed the lack of an av, and the posts did not seem to be your voice, but I thought…who knows, maybe the KG with whom many of us are familiar drank a bottle of Maker’s Mark after the last episode and hadn’t stopped drinking. 😉
Pink Letter? Or the show equivalent anyway…
Pigeon,
This is what the Faceless “Jaqen” says to Arya in the Hall of Faces. To me, this implies that you don’t keep your own face when you put on a new one: you become faceless. Kinda the whole point of the Faceless Men, innit? This quote almost implies that you have to give up your own face forever, but let’s hope that isn’t the case, especially if Arya changes faces next episode.
If dude was the same dude who wore the Jaqen face before, Jaqen was only ever a mask, which I hope is obvious, and Jaqen’s personality was also a mask the whole time he interacted with Arya. So we never really met the man beneath the mask. This guy has donned Jaqen’s mask again, but he hasn’t taken on the original Jaqen’s personality.
ctid,
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Do you know that for certain?
You and me both!
I hope Sansa shoves that corkscrew down Myranda’s throat. I hate that little bitch.
Ginevra,
OMG you are so right!
Its like, they literally cut off your face, your skin, so only your muscle and bone remain, then they can fit you with one of those many faces they somehow keep fresh in that weird face vault.
That is so cool! I am stupid, I never caught on to that but how you explain it makes perfect sense…
Although the tongue part doesn’t make sense.
So basically, Arya will become a faceless manikin, ready to assume the identity of whatever face is required to complete the task.
That is really cool, because, like in her water dancing, water has no form and takes on the form of the container its put in.
Arya is going to be such a badass, but she will also have to give up on her identity as Arya.
Maybe when they cut off her face, it’ll be preserved in that room with the others, so someday she can wear it again?
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I’m not sure if it’s some crazy coincidence or a deliberate deception. At any rate, this is the smart-mouthed arrogant Detroiter gal.
KG,
I thought that was you as well!
I was going to say, that long post the other KG did about Outlander and how 10 episodes isn’t enough was the longest post I have ever seen you write.
Your posts are usually very short.
I thought you had gone full Linda on us. Never go full Linda
Arthur,
I have a tendency to run on, so I make an effort to boil things down to the essentials 🙂
King Podrick,
Aahaha!
ctid,
No, I’ve just been convinced of it for, well, pretty much ever since we heard about the mystery person during filming.
KG
Smart-mouthed women unite!!!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…
Classic!!!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
/salute
I myself haven’t stopped, it Kraken spiced dark rum though, and yes i have asked myself “why is the rum gone”
Ginevra,
You know, now that you got me thinking…
If Arya’s gets her face cut off to become a faceless man this Sunday.
That will be so fucking awesome!
Maybe that pic of Jaqen is him watching her leave that face vault with a young girls face she picked to wear?
I’m with Nymeria Warrior Queen that
Ginevra,
But wait…
TV Arya can’t do that because that means Maise would be out a job.
Diana,
Realistically? No, she has no training. Crossbows, probably, but no bows (remember Bran at episode 1). But who knows.
WorfWWorfington,
You two: 1. LOOK AT A MAP OF WESTEROS. 2. NOTICE “WHITE HARBOR”? Not far SE of Winterfell. 3. REMEMBER THAT LITTLEFINGER HAS A SHIP? 4. A ship can sail from White Harbor to KL much faster than people and wagons can get there on the King’s Road.
Arthur,
The tongue might represent the voice, although I would think that one’s voice has more to do with the throat than the tongue. Maybe both.
It is an old, old tradition that the strength of magic or miracle or whatever is proportional to the magnitude of the sacrifice involved. It occurs in many mythologies, and it is something that you can assume that an audience knows. It’s sort of like never march an army in a blizzard or start a land war in southeast Asia.
Neither should require an imagination. Whether you are reading a book, watching a TV show, listening to music, admiring a painting, etc., you are paying someone else to imagine something for you. Moreover, you are paying them to imagine something that, taken together, says something more than the sum of the parts.
So, if you are imagining much when you are reading, then you are either reading poorly written books or inserting stuff that the author didn’t intend to be there.
Arthur,
Exactly. But hopefully her face will be put aside in the Hall of Faces, as you say, so that she could have it back if need be. Although I imagine Jaqen will be breaking the rules by letting her go back, if that happens. It sounds like you aren’t supposed to go back. Becoming No One, one with no face and no identity, sounds like the kind of deal you don’t renege on.
Why do so many think this Jaqen is not the same from Season 2? A lot of people seem to misunderstand the concept of faceless men being “no one”, they hear Jaqen say “I am not Jaqen, I am no one” and think that means this is a totally new person. All faceless men consider themselves “no one”. This is the same faceless man from season 2 and the actor who plays Jaqen has even confirmed this.
Wimsey,
Of course we’re inserting extra stuff that the author didn’t envision. But if the author leaves no room for interpretation and no scope for the imagination, then the book is very poorly written, indeed. (Says the Myers-Briggs N to the S.)
I took it to mean that Jaqen H’ghar was just an alias he used, or perhaps the name of the person that face originally belonged to. He even says “Jaqen H’ghar is dead” when he changes his face in the Season 2 finale.
I always thought they used a knife to make you bleed and placed the face over your own face and the blood makes it stick and gives the false face color. If Arya’s face was physically flayed off in the books I would definitely remember
Ginevra,
Fellow N here and I have to agree with you in that I prefer ambiguities that are open to interpretation. However I wouldn’t go so far as to say that this is how you define whether it is good or not!
Ginevra,
Wow, you’re awesome!
You got it totally figured out, all that he says to Arya makes sense now…
Thanks for making this clear to me. I like your interpretation of her actually having her face cut off and it not just being 100% magic.
It’s more brutal and GoT-like that way. And the sacrifice (losing your actual face) seems so much more meaningful.
We can assume she would drink some kind of potion so it would be painless, but once the procedure is done, she wakes up with a skeletor type face (muscle and bone) and is ready to put on the skin of another face. That’s when the magic comes in of her training her muscles and stuff…
IDK, I really like this idea, seems pretty horrific yet makes sense and gives Arya a totally new meaning to me.
I would be shocked if there’s any warging this episode. The show has not placed near the groundwork that the books have regarding warging.
Ew – no. Remember when Jaquen changed his face just before he left her (season 2?) there was no cutting, no blood – it just happened in the blink of an eye. Think that will happen here too
BTW to those of you drooling over the idea of seeing a naked lady on the show, and are upset because she has chosen, for what ever reason, not to, please grow up. They’ll be a body double who I suspect will do an excellent job looking just like her. Feel free to fantasize all you want at that point. Enjoy
But much slower than Manderly’s raven, bearing a note informing Cersei of LF’s and Roose’s treason. (and kindly asking for his son back).
The whole LF plot was ridiculous, honestly. He should have been flayed the moment he set foot in the north, and somehow surviving that, he should have had his head on a pike the moment he intered King’s Landing. That’s all water long past the bridge now, though.
How would LF even start such a plot? Send Roose a raven saying “Hey, I got Sansa Stark. Would you like to marry her off to your bastard?”. The response he would get, of course, would be “yeah, sure. bring her on up”. The question would be whether that meant “so we can have a smashin’ good wedding party” (unlikely) or “so I can flay you, seize Sansa, and return her to Cersei and reap huge rewards” (virtually certain).
Which I find odd, because
Coincidentally, that’s how that section of the books end. What are the odds?
JamesL,
ctid,
In many ways, I see this as a personality preference rather than a characteristic of the book itself. Wimsey seems to prefer not using his imagination when reading. He might even consider it an affront to the purity of the source material to imagine and interpret. On the other hand, I thrive on making leaps and presumptions, reading between the lines, even though I’m often wrong. That’s okay with me, and I get that what I’m seeing isn’t necessarily there, but that makes the novels so much more interesting to me.
I really didn’t like the Dance of the Dragons novella, and I doubt I would like the World of Ice and Fire – at least the writing, because they leave very little scope for the imagination. I would joke that they aren’t very good books, but what I really mean is that they aren’t very good books for me. Not my cuppa. I’m sure these books seem equally brilliant to those who have an affinity for details and facts, even in a world of fiction, as they well should.
Ginevra,
The World of Ice and Fire is great.
And it’s full of ambiguities too if you look for them. Plus there are cross references, alternative theories and allegories in there too.
It’s deliberately written in such a way as to also have a kind of unreliable narrative in the form of the maester.
A lot of people slated the sections that were obviously done by E and L too but they also add to the feel that it’s written by several people with different opinions and versions of events.
Just be careful to avoid all the sections on the muppet Tulleys, they’re shit!
MaesterMercy,
Jon Snow who goes back in time to save his mother?
So, it’s just now hitting me that we very well may see
Anyways, I’m sure the ep will be great; I just have a few worries atm…
– Sansa; I doubt that she will kill Ramsay with that corkscrew, but damn do I want her to. It would be a real shame if Sansa went to WF with the intent of getting revenge for her family and left before she got to do anything. Maybe she’ll open the gates for Stannis or even LF? Maybe she won’t even escape this episode at all? A cliffhanger would suck, but if we get Sansa plotting against the Boltons next season, then I’m all for it.
– Dorne. It really seems that it’s building to something good, and I hope it is. I would love a Fire&Blood speech, and Varys stepping out of the shadows. I’m afraid that we will get the Sand Snakes attacking Myrcella (again) though…
This season has to be the weakest of all, It was just dull and slow, it deviated a whole load from the books, and not to forget the whole load of poorly written fanfiction (Dorne, LF plot, Stannis burning Shireen), hope the next season is better
JamesL,
Somehow I agree. This season has been full of bleak and sad moments and some Unsullied may find too hard to take
. I was pissed with George because he did it in the book. It felt like a cheap ending to Jon’s ADWD arc, with such a cliffhanger. I really hope the show won’t make the same mistake and will show us at least a clear hint of a resolution.
I’m calling Jaime dies
Season 2 was way weaker, IMHO, and I would argue that Season 3 was weaker too (The only three really great episodes were “And Now His Watch Is Ended”, “Kissed By Fire” and “The Rains of Castamere”). So far, I would say S4>S1>S5>S3>S2.
Davos’ Luck,
Davos’ Luck,
Tbh Season 2 and 3 were mixed for me, they had good and bad, But we all can agree that S4 and S1 were the best
Mel could still see “daggers in the dark” in her flames and begin a journey back to Castle Black (though I doubt she’ll arrive there in the finale) since I’m pretty sure she’s gonna figure out Jon is (probably) the real Azor Ahai and abandon Stannis, especially if Stannis fails or dies at Winterfell.
If they really wanted to throw a curveball at us, the Watch could kill Jon only for him to open blue eyes shortly thereafter as the final scene of the season. I saw someone suggest that in the comments of a different article and thought it was kinda brilliant. It would certainly send a shockwave through the audience (and the internet). I almost want that to happen just to see the reactions.
On Jon
The critics seem to be generally lashing the show for being too dark and shock prone. It’s going to get more that way before we get the hintsof spring. Maybe it’s also a consequence of squashing two books and even some book six stuff into one season – there’s a lot of events to get in
Where are all these Sansa Stoneheart comments coming from? It doesn’t seem to make sense at all. And there wont be enough time in the episode. We are more likely to see LS at the end.
Also – I doubt we’ll see the Pink Letter. There isn’t enough time for Sansa to escape and then Ramsay to send a letter and then Jon to receive it etc. The NW have enough reason to go all Brutus on him.
Pigeon,
What I meant was…. Jaqen dude in S2 = Jaqen dude in S5. Nothing trippy. Good grief, some of the kool-aid going around is intense.
diop,
Good for her.
Random thoughts:
1. Season preferences: s1=s4>s3>s5>s2. S1 had fewer shock events and certainly had less budget. But it set the stage and structure so thoroughly that until “The End” of the final episode, we won’t realize how much the entire series owes to the season 1 foundation. While I accept the reasoning behind most of the shocks and changes this year, Season 5 has lost GoT a lot of supporters. That’s why I rank it so low. What saved it was the big budget necessary to create Hardhome and Daznak’s Pit.
2. Whether Arya goes through the blindness punishment or not, I believe she’ll leave the Faceless men, possibly hopping a ride home with the Westeros-bound Daenerys bandwagon. But Jaqen is no idiot–he’ll probably demand one last assassination. Naturally, it will be a horrific one that goes tragically against Arya’s nature and wishes. But why oh why have D&D deprived her of her wolf dreams? She had them, she earned them. Bran, Jon, Dany have their magic–where is Arya’s?
3. I think Sansa’s expression in the photo shows her surprise and relief at seeing Brienne show up. And for what it’s worth, mention of Sansa’s possible pregnancy makes me ill. The very idea of bringing Ramsey II, much less the grandchild of Roose into the world is an anathema. Their house should be flayed out of existence, no demon seed left behind. Isn’t abortion legal in the case of rape, incest, and Ramsey? And Sansa as Lady S? If anyone should be Lady S, it’s vengeful little Arya. Too bad she’s in Essos. I’d rather see Lady S herself, of course.
Off topic, but I just came back from San Andreas (which was ‘meh’ on a scale of 1-10), but Art Parkinson was great and I really hope Rickon returns in S6!
I don’t know from where this ideea comes that season 5 lost Got allot of supporters.Ratings at first airing where as good as season 4(top watched so far) but considering the totals where better!Add to this HBO Now and the other ways of watching it and you will find this season has more viewers than previous years.On top of that the piracy was insane this year.When all numbers will be official it will be more than obvious.I really don’t understand what some of you guys are talking about.
they said we will see 3 wedings this season. 1 more left to go and we have 1 episode …. im guessing Tyrstane and Myrcella
Or Deanerys will marry some Khal…
LOL, all this drama over Lena nudity? My guess is it’s in and at least some of it is her own. Why?
She’s done plenty of nude scenes before
Anyhow, we still haven’t seen Varamyr??
Also, that are those brooches on Sansa? They don’t look Bolton, Littlefingerish or Stark??
For me S4=S5 > S3=S1 > S2.
If this season didn’t have some Dorne’s scenes and the Sansa’s rape, it would have been the best so far.
Brock Landers,
I think the third wedding was meant to be between Dany and Hizdahr and that’s what was being referred to… at the time. Obviously it was either cut or not included at all so they just left things at the “proposal.”
I suppose it’s possible they could dedicate a moment or two to an “I do” scene and short post-wedding ceremony for Trystane and Myrcella before sending them on their way. But given the amount of time we have in the finale and all of the ground they need to cover, another wedding would honestly just be a stumbling block.
I’ll see myself out….
Joshua Atreides,
I wish Wun Wun would just step on him!
There was a good article by Sarah Hughes on the Guardian about the good and bad of season 5. Dorne was a bit unfortunate but they can learn from it for next season. Personally I think with Arya they should have mixed up the indoors and outdoors scenes more. It was such a great outdoors set. They could have had a bit more outdoors intelligence gathering work rather than body washing. But adapting two massive books was always going to be a hard ask
No. He promised not to tell.
LordDavos,
Yeah, I really liked that article actually.
Rat Kook,
D&D said that the last scene of ep. 10 will be from the books, so that Winterfell/Stannis thing won’t be the last. Maybe something with Varys (though they did not say that it will be the LAST scene from the books). My bet would be either FTW or Dany surrounded by “strangers” (hopefully not by Dornish). To me those would be the cliffhangers worthy of a GoT season finale.
Eleanor,
He promised in the book and didn’t tell. He spilled the beans to Jon right off in the show – that’s why he went to Craster’s on the raid, remember?
Dazor Ahai,
No he is right. You are confusing the books with the tv show.
Ctid
She seems like a genuine fan. I like her recaps.
What I don’t understand in Season 5 is : if Jaqen S2 and Jaqen S5 are the same guy, then why do they have different speeches about becoming a Faceless Man ?
Jaqen S5 asks Arya : Is a girl ready? To give up her ears, her nose, her tongue? Her hopes and dreams, her loves and hates? All that makes a girl who she is? Forever?, implying that if she’s becoming faceless, she must renounce to her personal vendetta as well.
Quite different from what Jaqen had previously told her in Season 2 : If you would learn, you must come with me. […] A girl has many names on her lips. Joffrey. Cersei. Tywin Lannister. Ilyn Payne. The Hound. Names to offer up to the Red God. She could offer them all. One by one. implying that if she’s becoming faceless, she can kill the ones who made her, Arya Stark, suffer.
That’s why I’m really surprised that Tom Wlaschiha said it is the same Jaqen ; I thought all along they were two different characters and I don’t understand the logic here. I would have expected for the finale that Jaqen disapproves of Arya’s vendetta against Meryn Trant, but now I’m not sure, maybe he will support her.
BeautyBrinne,
Every time I play GOT for the family they complain about the lighting! Its too dark they cant seee a thing! Season 1 didnt have this issue.
Rome never had this issue!
Ayu,
Exactly! In Season 2 he kept saying the red god, now its the many faced god? Is this inconsistency in writing??
chamush,
It’s just a bit of light revisionism. Happens when you don’t write all 7 seasons at once. Note Myrcella going to the youngest son and Theon’s Uncles. Little changes that they can get away with. All good.
chamush,
I’m not shoked at the change between Red God and Many-Faced God. For me, the Red God could just be one of the identities of the Many-Faced God, as they both seem to serve death, and Jaqen S2 may have used the name “Red God” as part of his cover identity.
chamush,
Not inconsistency. The Red God is Rhllor Lord of Light, one of the many faces of the Many Faced God. The Lord of Light is one of the statues in the House of Black and White.
They look like theyre about to drop the best boy band album this side of the narrow sea
Fienix,
King Podrick,
Fuck off. I’m not a purist at all. I love the show and the books.
I just hate how rushed the whole Tyrion escapes scene was last season, and now that this episode is so much shorter, and arguably has a ton more to get through, I’m worried about the quality!
I love the books Georges ghost writer wrote (GOT, COK, SOS).
Don´t like Georges original work (affc, dwd) tough.
Terrible analogy. So it would seem Ellaria is just simply fucking nuts? Blaming any and everyone for Oberyn’s death when it was actually on him.
C’mon, everybody has the aunt who isn’t really an aunt, uncle that really isn’t any uncle. Sometimes we say “brother,sister” when theres really no real blood relationship. I could swear Doran said to Ellaria that she was mother to four of his nieces. But I also thought the sandsnake girls all had different mothers. Ellaria was mother to one of them, not all of them. Even if you’re using “mother” in the informal sense that she is close to or raised all three then in that case we’re still missing one. Doran said four, we’ve only seen three.
Cuntbag,
You certainly do live up to your name!
Ser Matt the Sullen,
“So much shorter”… 4 minutes isn’t really that much. That’s about one scene.
besides, Jaqen told Arya that she took away one death from the Red God ( R’hllor) by saving him from the fire.
So they were in debt with the Red God and then he told her that she could name 3 person to pay this debt to the Red God.
Joshua Atreides,
I get the same vibe when I heard that for the first time on Arrow, I rolled my eyes and said to myself, “This isn’t The Renaissance era.”
In my mind I have created an alternate Shireen ending. Davos comes across her pyre, finds the stag and begins weeping. Suddenly the charred husk of her body cracks and falls apart and she stands there good as new, with no Greyscale. Hey, it would be a good way to sorta give a shout out to glamour Mance.
Joshua Atreides,
Please. Non readers are complaining the season is slow as is, making two seasons out of it would have been a terrible idea.
It’s actually in the books too that Jaqen talks about the Red God ( Arya’s 7th chapter in ACOK).
Wait,so people believe that the Sand Snakes are Ellaria’s daughters?Really?No,they are not.They changed Tyene to be her daughter just so there would be a connection between Ellaria and the 3 main ones.Doran was not talking about the main Sand Snakes,he was talking about the other daughters of Oberyn,the younger ones that he has with Ellaria.Oberyn explained in season 4 he has 8 daughters.Even if they changed one for the show,Obara or Nym have no blood connection of any kind with Ellaria.
That should keep book purists happy.
Joshua Atreides,
Eh, being a longstanding follower of the TWoP and PTV Unsullied forums (though not recently), I had my suspicions about that particular poster for a long, long time, if you catch my drift…
The show has changed much for the purposes of simplification. In the books, Ellaria is actually mother to five of eight total Sand Snakes, but four of Ellaria’s snakes are too young to be threatening and so are never shown and barely mentioned. In the show, I believe that they may be setting Ellaria up as the mother to all of the Sand Snakes we’ve seen. The only significant Sand Snake we haven’t seen yet in the show is Sarella. Since the other four Sand Snakes are too young to be dangerous, my hope is that Doran’s “four nieces” comment was a hint to Sarella’s inclusion in Season 6.
Chekhov’sOlly,
I laughed out loud. Hard. Please let this happen.
Arya Havin’ a Larf?,
I noticed that, too! I was surprised, but perhaps it is as others have said: Jaqen was playing the role of a real person at that time and not of a Faceless Man who serves the Many-Faced God. Although I agree that the Red God is one of many faces, it would be strange for that to be the face he uses to relate to Arya, who worships the Old Gods, unless it is Jaqen’s cover personality who is supposed to be from Essos and worship the Red God. And this relates back to why I think that even if the Jaqen mask is currently worn by the same Faceless Man, we aren’t seeing the Jaqen personality that goes with that mask: rather, we are seeing No One.
Ginevra,
You’re wrong.
In the books, Ellaria is the mother of the four youngest Sand Snakes, who we haven’t seen at all (though Elia appears in TWOW Arianne I.) The older ones, which Ellaria didn’t mother, are Obara, Nym, Tyene and Sarella. In the show, Ellaria is mother to four of the Sand Snakes, but explicitly only Tyene among the older ones. So she also mothered three of the youngest (instead of four, as in the books.) It’s really not that difficult.
And yes, there are 8 Sand Snakes in the show as well. Oberyn said so in season four.
Ginevra,
They are not making Ellaria the mother of all Sand Snakes we’ve seen,no one said that and it’s not even possible.Actress playing Nym is of asian origin,obviously not her daughter and Obara is even a couple years older than Nym.I don’t know how is this even a discussion.
Ginevra,
Tyenne is definitely Ellaria’s daughter in the show and Obara isn’t (she monologued about how Obyrn took her from her mother). I’m assuming they’re sticking to the books and having the other daughters be too young for them to have an effect on the story.
juan,
I figure every Stark may have been taught some minimum. Maybe she wouldn’t have done hand-to-hand or swordplay, but perhaps the bow.
Yes, and it only becomes an issue because they re-introduced Jaqen in the show ( who knows if book!Jaqen will or has already re-appeared in another guise 😉 ).
Anyway, this I would assume is a Red God thing, that the three were specifically spared death by fire and thus three lives/souls stolen away from R’hllor; if it’s just Jaqen’s cover at the time he’s taking the subterfuge quite seriously!
Ser Gerold Dayne,
Funnily enough, this also means that Oberyn got some woman pregnant AFTER Ellaria. Then again, with all their threesomes and foursomes it’s not too surprising
Diana,
She doesn’t need a bow, all she needs is a corkscrew
Ginevra,
Correct. When Jaqen leaves Arya in season 2, he says “Jaqen is dead.” He also says he comes from Lys or Lorath or some such Essosi city, and obviously that’s his guise, not where the real Faceless Man comes from.
Unsullied here:
Are we all EQUALLY unsullied after next week?
Deesensfan,
Except for a few things, yes. You’re moderately unspoilable.
We know for a fact Euron Greyjoy is being cast next season, so Sullied can spoil you his introduction and his motivations; but they don’t know for a fact what will actually happen with him, as that’s TWOW / Season 6 material. Other characters (such as the infamous LSH), while important in the books, aren’t in the TV show at all, so Sullied may spoil you but it won’t affect your show experience.
You can be spoiled on a few things, I’m sure. But after next week NOBODY will be able to spoil you on something on the level of Ned’s death, the Red Wedding, etc. There is one moderately big shock left (the character I mentioned), but the show ain’t doing it.
Deesensfan,
Almost, but not quite. There are a couple of things related to Sam and the Iron Born which we have a head start on, but it’ll catch up fast I think.
Chekhov’sOlly,
Awesome. Don’t forget to include “Jaime Lannister sends his regards.” “Fetch me a block, Edd.”
bigb,
How is she looking pregnant? Speaking as a pregnant lady I see no visible signs.
Luka Nieto,
jentario,
Okay! Good to know. This is exciting.. So we can all speculate together. Except the Sullied may have more grounds to speculate from because of all the details provided in the books.
“You can be spoiled on a few things, I’m sure.”
So nothing major? The reason I ask is because I want to read the books!
Edit: I just saw the pics above. I am scared for Jon. I wont be happy if GRRM pulled a Red Wedding on him. The show wont mean as much to me any more going forward if so.
So, is there any chance that
jentario,
True, but I’m pretty sure Sam’s stuff will be setup by next episode, and most of the Oldtown-related conspiracy is just speculation and theories. It was just setup in AFFC, very much like Euron. After next week the Unsullied will only be able to be spoiled on setups, not pay-offs or climaxes.
Yes, and since those deaths (Rorge, Biter and Jaqen) were meant to be by fire, Jaqen namechecks the Red God as that facet of the Many Faced God. Are some people not paying attention? 😛
Not equally. According to casting news, the show is likely going to cast some characters that showed up in “A Feast for Crows” / “A Dance With Dragons” that haven’t been on the show so far. It’s likely there’s going to be two or three subplots from those books that will end up in Season 6.
So the book readers will probably be around 80% unsullied next season.
Josh L.,
Euron was only introduced in AFFC. He didn’t do much else, except start the campaign he promised he would during his introduction. THAT introduction may be brought to season six; but everything else will be TWOW material, not AFFC or ADWD.
Josh L.,
More like 90%. And as Luka said, there are no major developments in these storylines at this point in the books.
Josh L.,
If TWoW comes out on April Fool’s Day 2016 (in my dreams), then we’ll still need to use spoiler tags. 🙂
Hodor’s Bastard,
I’m torn on the issue. I want to be wholly surprised by the TV show for once, which is how I started to experience the story. If the book comes out close to the airing of season six, I’ll consider not reading the book until the season is over.
Luka Nieto,
That would take some willpower! Admittedly, that approach would provide a new perspective though. I currently plan on taking the entire week off from work when it comes out. But that could change!
Hodor’s Bastard,
I’d only do it if the books came out only weeks before the show aired. I won’t be able to wait for months, but maybe I can wait a few weeks, and once I’m hooked on season six I know won’t want to spoil myself. Of course, the other possibility, which is just as likely if not more so, is that the book won’t come out before season six at all. Disastrous for book fans, I’m sure, but personally it does remove a conflict for me.
jentario,
oh okay. so brans story is not more advanced in book 4/5
Deesensfan,
Bran didn’t have much book material so in the adaptation his storyline was severely brought forward compared to the other ones. Bran’s third book story ended in Season 3 (passing through the Wall), even though Season 3 only adapted about half of most characters’ storylines. Bran wasn’t in book four. What we saw in season four was his book five material. There IS one more chapter after they arrive at the cave of the three-eyed raven, and Bran learns some stuff, but nothing earth-shattering. He simply… trains. Book readers know very little about Bran that you don’t know.
Maybe. Westeros.org would be quite interesting indeed. Can you imagine reading/viewing a review of an S6 episode from E&L if they couldn’t toss around their loaded “comparative” insights? 🙂
Hodor’s Bastard,
They still will, of course. GRRM writes at such a deliberate pace (I don’t blame him, as others do) that people form incredibly complex theories and end up pretty much believing they’re canon already. If the show debunks some of these theories, they’ll just assume D&D are changing stuff… despite the fact that D&D know the story moving forward, and us fans can only speculate.
Luka Nieto,
Ah okay. Good to know. I thought that what we saw of Bran in season 4 was books 4.. and Book 5 we haven’t seen yet.
Deesensfan,
Nope. No need to be worried. All that people will be able to spoil you after next week is the setup for a few storylines, and things that are a big deal in the books but not on the show.
Luka Nieto,
Great, I better start reading before people spoil the books for me 😉
I’m
The only reader in my house , we got three unsullied people besides me. My house thinks this season was the worst in 3 years now I know that may change after this episode and I hope it does , but the fact of the matter is people are finding faults in it . I wanna know what the point of khaleesi and hizda hazr to even announce that they would get married . Was the marriage suppose to be off screan ? How is pollavers word count in court , don’t squires bath them . Does bravosi people speak the common tongue ? Are questions I’ve been asked recently . All the sand snakes repeating themselves , obara telling areo hotah who she is like he never would have met her before . It’s tacky clunky wish washy stuff . Even unsullied people are pointing it out . Now the cgi is cool I actually wanna say that a dance with dragons is maybe a 7 (being generous) on a 1-10 , but that’s not the same quality as Hardhome or the same quality of any of the last three episodes last season. I’m not gonna call this season bad . It’s not , overall it’s still good , best show on tv , but it’s not what it was last year . Replacing the the Hound Tywin and Oberyn with the sandsnakes than cutting every intresting charector besides them was not a good idea . I’m only hoping this episode reveals one new charector with an intresting back story atleast one cause all the dorne scenes has been a letdown . Doran and areo are intresting but they’ve had like 8,lines between the both of em all year , that sucks
Not necessarily. Remember, the Reeds turned up a season late given where they turned up relative to the books because the plot in which they were involved did not start in earnest until the 3rd book/season. Oberyn turned up a season late given where he turned up in the books because the plot in which he was involved did not start in earnest until the second part of the third book (Season 4).
We have good reason to think that Euron will be in next year. However, he is barely in the books at all up to this point. (I actually have no memory of him even speaking, but that is my Crows amnesia: supposedly he utters a few lines worthy of heavy metal anthems that I’ve blotted out!) Nevertheless, there is good reason to suspect that he will be important to the plot in Winter. If we are correct that this is Euron, then we should expect to see his Winter material, not his Crows material, in 2016.
Similarly, we have good reason to think that Randall Tarly will be in next year. He, too, has had a very small presence in the books so far: but the stage was set for him to have a more prominent role in the plot in Winter. Again, if we are correct that this is Tarly, then we should expect to see his Winter material, not his Crows material, in 2016.
The announcement would mean more than the marriage itself, just as with any engagement.
The SS were barely present this year. Unlike the Hound or Oberyn (who were strong supporting characters), they are incidental characters. They are incidental characters that people do not like, I will grant – I did not like them in the books and I do not like them here – but incidental characters all the same. They are only relevant to Jaime’s story: and hopefully something will happen with that on Sunday, because that is the one story that has really lagged this year.
Ur not a lil disappointed in this season you love it ?
I am not disappointed with the season. I don’t know that I “love” it, but I’m not disappointed, either. (There is a great deal of space between “disappointed” and “loving it” after all.)
I saw this year as a huge challenge because of the Crows material. I thought that audience reaction to most of it would be very negative compared to the prior season, just as the critical and audience reaction was to the book 10 years ago. Although I expected aggressive adaptation, I did not know if it would be aggressive enough: but instead, it was more aggressive than I imagined; only Arya’s and Cersei’s plotlines survived from Crows. I think that the payoff was pretty clear, too: I think that the actual story has been very clear this season, and although the plots have had a lot of horrible things happen to people, I think that it all ties together quite well.
My only major disappointment is Jaime’s storyline. I disliked his plotline from the books, but I liked the actual story of Jaime
Whereas the story has been evident in every other character arc, it hasn’t in his. There is still time: but not much!
However, given that there are nearly a dozen protagonists in this story, it might have been way to much to hope that it would work for every one of them.
Why isn´t anyone talking bout Shireen=Nissa Nissa. Shireen was not only his daughter I believe she was the only person he realy cared about.
Luka Nieto,
Thanks, Luka, Ser Gerold, and Phoe. I am sorry. I’ll try to fact check more carefully next time.
Ginevra,
I’m team Ginevra.
ctid,
I thought it was a bit too.. obvious?
Having the maester ALWAYS saying : I don’t think such magic exists.
Or : There are rumors about that but I don’t think it’s true.
and so on and so on.
Reading it I was like : Ok Ok I get it, it’s a point of view encyclopedia. Duuh
Wimsey,
Are books 4 and 5 “happening at the same time”?
Valaquen,
Nah, not buying it.
I pay very good attention, youre just stretching 😉
Inconsistency!!! There has been a lot already!
It seemed like the Harpy bastards were killing citizens for the first time at the pit. I don’t mean Hizdar, I mean random people in the stands, and people dressed the equivalent to nobles, I thought. Is this true? I haven’t seen anybody mention this. If this is significant, a change in their actions, wouldn’t it portend a change in public opinion?
Hope they learn a bit from this season as they shot their whole load in the season 4 finale and that left very little dramatic events left for the start of this season which I think the first couple of episodes really suffered because of. There’s so much potentially going on that surely they’re going to have to leave some of it until next season?
New interview of David Nutter:
http://www.mtv.com/news/2181189/game-of-thrones-dance-of-dragons-interview/
About Cersei’s big scene
Nutter: All of these actors, and everyone involved in the show… they signed up for this show and what it’s really all about. The books help to guide the show, as well as outline where Dave and Dan are going. This is what [Lena Headey] signed up for, and everyone understood really well where it was headed.
So it’s a situation where there’s an outline and a ground plan for all of this, which is really good to have. Dave and Dan have been able to — so brilliantly — forge in new directions where the books have not headed yet, and create their own bible that they’re building on as well. There’s never been any question about what their thoughts are, and so forth, because they’re such amazing storytellers. [Cersei’s scene] was not so much a “why is this happening,” it was more of a “how are we going to do this; and how are we going to physically portray this to make it digitally arresting?””
Sounds like this scene won’t be shortchanged like the rumors above have stated
Ginevra,
Interpretation and imagination are quite different! Melissandre might misinterpret what she sees in the fires, but she does not imagine it. Similarly, authors can tacitly tell us “5” by giving us 2,+, and 3. That is interpretation. But we should not have to imagine the 2, 3 or the fact that they can be added.
We are paying authors to describe their imaginations in a package that communicates their story. A story or plot can never rely on all of the readers imagining the samr thing. If we are not told “plus” in some way, then for every reader that imagines a plus, equal numbers will imagine a minus, a times and a divided by: and the author’s point is lost by neglect.
HelloThere,
“Sexually-charged scene” ?! Seriously, MTV:You really don’t get it. Go back to numbing kid’s minds with shite music and reality TV.
The entire Book 4 and the first two thirds of Book 5 run concurrently. Afterwards, Book 5 overtakes and protagonists from Book 4 reappear for a chapter or two to continue their stories. It’s not really the most elegant way to edit a book.
Deesensfan,
Yes. So, you really can just skip Book 4 and go on to Book 5. My wife tried that recently, as she found Crows unreadable, and she had no problem following Dragons.
Mr Fixit,
Wimsey,
Okay! I see now.
Sorry for all the questions.
Why did she find it unreadable??!?!
My guess is that in Season 6, we will see these material from the books:
One or two scenes from the Citadel / Oldstown chapters, although I’d assume those would probably be heavily adapted.
Maybe the Arya / Sam meeting.
As for Randall Tarly, he didn’t do anything in the books other than one scene where he basically told Brienne that she was on her own. I highly doubt that’ll be in the show.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Nudity is automatically associated with sex in the minds of many people, especially Americans… and the two reactions I see the most to nudity are either ogling at it or being offended (or even disgusted) by it. No one can ever seem to see a naked body for what it is: a naked body.
Robb Snow,
It’s quite sad really. If anyone watches that scene and is sexually aroused then they should take a long hard (unfortunate choice of words!) look in the mirror!
Roose On The Loose,
I wonder if there’s more backstory to Jaqen. For instance, what if Ned Stark freed a boy (Jaqen) from slavery (when Stark banished Jorah) and he owes him a life debt. Perhaps taking Arya under his wing is his way of keeping her alive and giving her the skills to avenge Ned. Perhaps Jaqen was Syrio?
A man with Jaqen’s skills wouldn’t have found himself in the cells and trapped in the cart unless he wanted to be there. So, he must have pegged Arya early on. If so, there’s either some magical involvement or he was told to watch out for her.
Come…on…W. That is a disservice. AFfC should be loved/hated in the “eye of the beholder.”
Two words, Deesensfan….Boiled Leather
Hodor’s Bastard,
Boiled Leather. I wish I knew what that meant?? Hahaha
And when I do read the books, I will read them all, of course.
KG,
Jon went back to Craster’s Keep because a few crows (Grenn amongst them) escaped from there and told Jon about the situation. Jon went there in order to kill/capture them so Mance wouldn’t, else the wildlings would have obtained real info on Night’s Watch strength, numbers, defence strategy, etc.
The only Crow at the Wall (besides Samwell) who knew about Bran (and Rickon) being alive and somewhere over the Wall, was Locke.
Oh, apologies…I meant to insert a link. It is an intriguing website that suggests a combined reading order for AFfC and ADwD, since they chronologically & logically overlap. Scroll down to the first article.
Hodor’s Bastard,
Oh thank you.
So you would suggest that way over book 4 then book 5??
Deesensfan,
I’m sure there are a variety of opinions on the matter but, imho, if you want to maintain contact with ALL the ASoI&F characters, then consider the boiled leather approach. AFfC does not include several major PoV characters while introducing many more PoVs, which reduces its value to some readers.
Mr Fixit,
I’m pleased to hear I’m not alone in that.
Chekhov’sOlly,
plzz
let this happen
Haha, seconded! Also: Edd, fetch me a block!
Thronetender,
haha
I’m stupid too, I thought Jaquen(1) = Jaquen(2)? So Jaquen’s just a face skin hanging somewhere, then? Boo.
And agree with you re: the man candy…although it’s only fair, the women on this series are gorgeous, why shouldn’t we enjoy the pretty men too? 🙂
Nevermind. I can’t get the spoiler tags to work.
I have a theory about Arya and Lady Stoneheart: Ready?
Deesensfan,
She could not latch on to the new protagonists and she found the retreading of plots that she felt were finished aggravating. Add to that a 5 year wait, and she swore off the series. (She does that!)
Josh L.,
I do not think that there is any need to show any of the
At this point, it (probably) will be extraneous detail that just irritate the audience, and unnecessary scenes that will delay the launch of the plot with which the character is involved. So, just expect him to be there with a fleet: his status and what he’d been up to doing before probably will be quite irrelevant.
Wimsey,
wow! no mercy! LOL
jentario,
The show has moved away from the books. Switching Jeyne (fArya) for Sansa starts that process of change. Ramsey is more hot-headed, impulsive. Is he likely to have patience to pen a letter, seal it with HOUSE BOLTON’s PINK WAX (which other house uses pink wax)…..? All this time, if Sansa is escaping, she’s putting distance between herself and Ramsey, he’s still waiting to send a raven off. Really? On the show, Ramsey won’t wait. He’d be after Sansa pronto.
Don’t compare when circumstances change. Don’t presume to fit book facts to show facts.
BTW – The shot with Jon? It’s not been treated to the lighting effects used on the show when the scene is set inside Jon’s office. A darker, blue filter will negate the pink-ness.
Robb Snow,
Ugh, hes so fine.
And that pic scares me…………
I have only one question: is House Bolton’s Pink Wax fat or not?
chameleon,
https://verymuchdutch.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/tom-wlaschiha.jpg
Hodor’s Bastard,
My wife managed just fine! She has read the first three books plus Dragons and does not feel “behind” on anything. She is even looking forward somewhat to Winter.
Before Dragons came out, I just read the first three books again for the first time in the 6+ years (I think that I re-read the first three right before Crows came out), and I didn’t have any problems, either. I think that I mistakenly thought that Victarion was completely new, but it did not have a big effect on how I read him. (I remember reading dragons quite distinctly: I started en route to Australia and finished about an hour before the plane landed! It was a surprisingly ununpleasant flight….)
Lucius,
Yep, that’ll be Mel’s explanation in the books
ZappaCreed,
I was saying he writes the letter after giving up on the hunt for Sansa/finding out for certainty she’s headed for the Wall. Not that he writes the letter before even looking, which makes no sense.
Ionuts,
There’s a whole discussion about where Bran might be heading.
Arthur,
They have shown a scenes of a cat passing Arya in the House of Black and White and Arya looking puzzled a couple of times. Unless that was a small call-out to book readers, I think it forshadowed Arya’s warging.
Great – I just read on spoilertv.com that the finale has leaked now as well. Who the hell do they have in charge of security on these things?
wally,
Someone walking past a cat is not a person becoming a cat in any way. In the books, we do get that: they call her Cat and she becomes one.
I do wish that they could have kept Arya’s Woolf dreams, but I realize that they really cannot start those until the season that they become important.
Deesensfan,
Just to add to Hodor’s Bastards comment, YES, you should use boiledleather’s combined reading order instead of reading book 4 and the book 5. I’ve done both and the combined order really makes for a much, much better and more pleasant read.
Clob,
OH I hope not. 🙁
Clob,
I bet it’s Linda. She’s had it in for this show for a while (especially this season), has already threatened to spoil the finale, and being in the position she’s in probably has (or had at some point) access to footage, stills, etc. for the new season.
Robb Snow,
I find it hard to feel bad for anyone who gives these wingnuts that kind of info….why do people need it? To feel superior? Ugh. Takes away from the fun of the show. 🙁
Dutch maester,
I second the Boiled Leather recommendation. I’d read AFFC & ADWD several times (a bit of a masochist, apparently – I read the Wheel of Time series several times too), and the Boiled Leather re-read was a far better experience. Don’t let the haters sway you – put back together, it’s a good yarn.
DO NOT POST ANY LEAKED MATERIALS.
YOUR POST WILL BE DELETED AND YOU WILL BE BANNED.
IS THAT CLEAR?
(Yes I’m posting this in each post, so everyone is warned.)
Bummer that it looks like another leak has happened… and that I was just spoiled big time over at imdb ;( Maybe the spoilers I read were fake….? Damn.
I love discussing stuff online, but I guess I’ll need to start restricting myself to this website.
This is only the second season I’ve watched live, so I’m not sure; but has anything like this happened before? We got leaked script details of the first couple episodes last fall, Sansa’s traumatic scene leaked this spring, the first four episodes leaked, and a bunch of leaked inside the episodes, stills, and episode summaries. What gives?
Man, you must be! I gave up on that series long, long ago. It became a parody of itself, it seems. It is weird to think that there was a legitimate debate about whether WoT or SoI&F was the superior series 15+ years ago.
Another leak? Seriously? They really need to get their act together as it’s been a ridiculous situation this season.
Robb Snow,
Well, having just read through some of the responses to her twitter post about how she’d like to start a campaign to spoil episode 10, while she may not have done it directly, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if her little “campaign” didn’t lead to it. There were actually people reporting back bragging how they’d just spoiled episode 10 on reddit, and posting every spoiler they could think of in the responses on twitter.
Fucking pathetic.
If you don’t want to be spoiled, I’d suggest avoiding reddit, and do not read through the responses to her twitter post.
Sickening that it’s been leaked, for the all cast and crew who have laboured over making this season, it’s soul-destroying.
As for Linda, how she has clout in the GoT world is beyond me, woman is toxic and she needs to be reprimanded accordingly, if she did indeed have a hand in leaking it.
In the spirit of fairness and for purposes of clarification, I wasn’t trying to imply she’s responsible for the leak (fortunately, I missed whatever was posted here…thanks for being so on top of it, Sue), just various people thinking it’s a good idea to run around to various sites posting every spoiler of which they can think for the finale episode.
It’s amazing someone who has received such benefit because of the show…money for translating episodes, exponential growth of the website she helps run, and who knows how many extra sales of TWOIAF (how many people have read the books because of the show, then subsequently purchased TWOIAF?)…would be so ungrateful and utterly classless!
I read the first WoT book years ago and was turned off by how formulaic and uninspired it came across pretty much from the start. Never read any of the sequels. I did wonder if there’s anything more to those books I might have missed since so many people seemed to love them.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Being a translator for the show might give her access to the kind of stuff that’s being leaked.
Also, didn’t she and Elio receive that screener for the first four episodes of this season? I’m starting to notice a pattern here…
Not no more she ain’t. I’d be shocked if they gave her that consideration for next season. Her Twitter meltdown is making the rounds.
Robb Snow,
Oh bullshit.
She’s honest about disliking the show. She’s a book purist and has been pretty much a professional one for years. That doesn’t mean she’s leaking this shit. Don’t post heresay. It make whoever posts it look like a trevor.
I really think posts like this accusing people of things with zero evidence should be removed and it’s not the first time I’ve said it.
I’ve tried searching for this infamous Linda’s Twitter account, with no success. I found her joint account with her fiance, but nothing looked amiss. I’m probably not doing it right.
Wouldn’t it be cool, although probably all sorts of illegal, if the new terms of service went something like…
ctid,
Have you read her Twitter? Looks like she is trying to spoil things to me. Maybe they are red herrings, maybe they are not. Stupid thing to do in either case. Using the term “professional” in regards to Linda is a HUGE fucking stretch.
ctid,
I can see which side your bread is buttered on. There’s nothing even remotely professional about Linda’s conduct. She’s a liability who should never have been allowed in the “inner circle” in the first place. If George and D&D are wise they’ll cut her loose after this season.
Wimsey,
The ASoIaF >< WoT debate escaped me, but I read WoT before ASoIaF. ASoIaF was recommended to me by a fellow WoT reader that described ASoIaF as "WoT but NC-17, with all the curse words & fucking right there on the page!" I couldn't pass it up!
As for my re-reads of WoT, I am a fast reader & mastered the art of "skimming" (WoT reference there). The folks here that talk about filler have NO IDEA what filler is unless they've slogged through WoT. I've re-read them to see if there was something amazing there that I've missed. But to show that my masochism only goes so far, I could not stomach a re-read of the Sword of Truth series. Goodkind's libertarian ranting got too be too overpowering by the end and I only finished the series (I ended with Confessor) after forcing myself to read it. I can't leave a project undone, no matter how much it hurts.
I’m not sure how much she actually knows about the show and episode 10 in particular. She appears to be launching a rather hysterical campaign based on releasing spoilers of a certain scene from the books.
Stumbled on three images from the episode whilst reading about the leak though. To be honest only one was a surprise for those who haven’t read the books. But the fact they’re out there means there may be more. Think it’s time to leave the internet alone for the weekend, guys!
TheTouchOfFrost,
Why must haters ruin things for everyone else? See, folks, this is why we can’t have nice things…
My, my, my, you really are in love with her, aren´t you ?
flintwielder,
Seriously. She outright says multiple times that she’s going to go on a crusade spoiling episode 10 for everyone, and it’s “heresy” to suggest she’s behind it?
Ginevra,
They have one joint account with “westeros” in the title, and another with both their names, but it says “hippo…” I can’t remember the rest of it. It’s the second one where she says:
“Since D&D care nothing about spoiling book readers, I feel like having a massive campaign to spoil the big one in ep 10. #GameofThrones.”
It goes from there. When I enter “linda and elio” into google, the beginning of the quote I posted is, like, the third or fourth entry down.
If you haven’t read the books, don’t read through it. You will be spoiled, and in great detail. Also, I didn’t read every single comment, and what I saw was a few hours ago, so who knows what else has been put on there at this point.
I know this isn’t a leak, but if the mods feel as though this is dancing too close to the edge, please delete.
Haha. You’ve found me out!
No, really I’m not. I actually find her quite annoying and a bit of a knob. But I think she’s an honest one and I don’t like it when people spread crap about her or criticise her for stuff she isn’t doing.
Problem is: She is doing the stuff she is being criticized for. No use for her to delete the Twitter feeds and call *neener, neener* if there are screen caps of them all over the place.
Re her being professional…*le big sigh*…let´s not go there.
In the end, we´ll see on Sunday what really was leaked or not.
Til then, better move to a remote island, ye all.
flintwielder,
I might take back the “professional” comment.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Thank you, Lady Nym! I’ve read all of the books, though I don’t recall them all as well as I should.
flintwielder,
Well, we get this in every fandom: there are always fans who are more “loyal” to the franchise than even the original author! Harry Potter fans would often grumble about Rowling’s selling of the rights for her films without the OK of the fans: because, in their minds, it was theirs, too. (These usually were the same sort of fans that were convinced that Harry’s scar could not be a piece of Voldemort’s soul, or that Snape had to be just “evil,” or that Sirius Black was still alive, etc., etc.)
And there were many Tolkien fans who just could not accept that Tolkien had willingly sold the film rights for his works, or that he could actually have written letters stating that he preferred wholesale cuts of plotlines to squeezing too much into the film.
Again: William Shatner, SNL!
Arthur,
What if she picks
Enough of spoiler talk! What’s your personal story theory that everyone else says is BS?
Mine is:
Stupid spoiler marks that don’t work after you edit! Trying again
Discuss!
jentario,
That’s a chapter from Winds of Winter [1]. Wow, they’re really jumping ahead with her character progression! Or they’ve got some tricky interweaving of her continuing training while also fulfilling her personal vengeance.
Woo, boy.
1 (source)
Arya Stark
An additional Arya chapter was removed from Dance and placed into Winds. It was available to read on George R. R. Martin’s site in early 2014 and details Arya posing as a young girl by the name of “Mercy,” who is assisting a mummer’s troupe when she happens upon an envoy from Westeros, which includes a man who is featured on her list. By the end of the chapter it is obvious that Arya has struck out on her own and is following through on her long-promised vengeance.
jentario,
I might remember this wrong, but I thought that he spoke of the Red God in that particular situation because they were saved from fire, meaning R’hollor missed out on a sacrifice. But if that was the only god he ever mentioned it seems a bit off.
KG
I, for one, hope that HBO does a better job of locking down on early releases of episodes and leaks next season, especially as the show goes beyond the books and start spoiling the books.
My feeling about the show spoiling the books is that it’s GRRM’s own damn fault for taking so long to write them.
LordDavos,
Also,
Given that neither Jaime nor Brienne were protagonists in the first story, they should be considered both improbable and unlikely.
Totally agree. I am not frothing at the mouth wanting Cersei to be nekkid, I just want the scene to be done with enough justice given the importance from a character perspective as well as knowing an actress as good as Lena can Nail. It. The comments about 30 seconds being too short for the scene read to me as wanting to respect the scene and the actress, they didn’t read as teenager boys wanting to see bewbs so let’s not jump the gun and assume the worst of commenters! We’ll all see how it goes obviously and then will share our different perspectives.
OMG THANK YOU FOR THIS BOY IS SCRUMPTIOUS YO
The letter doesn’t look “pink” that Jon is reading. I’m guessing though it’s Sansa asking for help.
Wimsey,
I understand – I’m not saying that Arya actually warged into a cat in that moment, just suggesting that the film-makers seemed to be foreshadowing it… The same way that they foreshadowed meeting the Stonemen and someone (Jorah) contracting greyscale by having all that talk about greyscale in earlier episodes. Why have Gilly discuss it, then give Shireen’s history of it if it wasn’t going to play some part in a later episode? Why spend time showing Arya looking quizzically at the cat if it wasn’t going to have some meaning later? Why even have a cat in the House of Black and White? Either the cat plays into a later episode or it’s showing up is just a call out to those who know the story.
This one is pretty out there:
LordDavos,
Only in the books, she’s very average with a sword and is very naive. Her stubborness is what gets ehr through most situations. Book Brienne is a lot better than show Brienne who just seems to do nothing all season then turn up in the finale to get rid of a character infinitely more interesting than her ( if what a lot of us fear is going to happen does in the finale).
KG,
I’m going with either Dany killing Jorah or Jaime killing Cersei. Honestly have no idea though.
Wimsey:
LordDavos,
James,
WorfWWorfington,
I think all of this came from a scene in episode 8 (when Theon comes to her and she questions him about his betrayal (the candle plot). She shows a weirdly big belly but I think it’s only her dress.
LSH won’t be Sansa. If they are going to do that then they will do it properly.
Wimsey,
I think you are putting too much stock into prophecy. GRRM has warned us about doing such things. I personally think the “3 heads of the dragon” will be something very different than what fans expect
chameleon,
“The comments about 30 seconds being too short for the scene read to me as wanting to respect the scene and the actress, they didn’t read as teenager boys wanting to see bewbs so let’s not jump the gun and assume the worst of commenters”
Man you’re uptight – little hint for the wise there, it’s not only “teenage boys” who’re into that despite what every pretentious twat on the planet likes to think, and it’s got nothing to do with respect or disrespect.