Contrary to previous reports, the writing of Game of Thrones season 6 hasn’t been affected in any way by criticism concerning female characters, says a new article from Entertainment Weekly.
Last December, GoT director Jeremy Podeswa stated that showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss “were responsive to the discussion and there were a couple of things that changed as a result” for the new season. The director stated that, “They did not want to be too overly influenced by that (criticism) but they did absorb and take it in and it did influence them in a way.”
Talking to EW, Benioff and Weiss express respectful disagreement with Podeswa’s sentiment, with Weiss saying, “Jeremy is fantastic. It’s hard to know what the context was – whether or not that’s exactly what he said or he said something adjacent to that and the words got shuffled around because whoever typed it up liked the way it sounded better.”
He denies any changes being made to season 6 as a result of controversy, and leaves no room for doubt in his statement. “I can literally say that not one word of the scripts this season have been changed in any way, shape or form by what people said on the Internet, or elsewhere.”
His partner Benioff offers his own perspective on the matter- from a long-term planning point of view. “The thing that’s slightly frustrating is the idea that we’re responding to criticism from last year, so therefore we’re going to beef up the female roles – that’s blatantly untrue.” He explains that the plotlines have been planned for quite a long time and therefore what we see in season 6 won’t have anything to do with internet feedback.
Visit EW for the complete interview!
HODOR.
That’s why I love D&D. Never doubted them.
Also, grabing pocorn for this thread.
Mihnea,
You sexy bastard, beat me by 5 seconds. Although I think Hodor has to change to something else very soon.
And rightly so. Continuity should be the most important in a series with multiple seasons.
I’m so glad they didn’t listen. I mean, there were some things that could’ve been better (in my opinion), but A LOT of people really over reacted to what happened on the show in season 5.
Lord of Bones,
My….. I don’t know how to respond. I wasn’t called ‘sexy” since the late 90’s.
Read more in our issue featuring the Women of GoT!!!
It hasn’t affected the scripts, but it has affected the marketing.
HELL YEA D&D!!!!!
Happy April first 1st my Fellow watchers
Winter Comes in 23 days 🙂
I don’t have any complaints, except I’m glad that we haven’t seen so much T&A as we did in the past. 🙂 I guess everyone’s too busy trying to stay alive nowadays.
Alan,
They did said there where things that they where not pleased with. To me this is enough. Trying to please the internet is pointless.
And trying to please the hardcore purists even more. The show would be no where near it is, if they did what the purists wanted.
Mihnea,
You are so funny. Will you share the popcorn?
I am glad that D&D are ‘sticking to their guns’.
They are the writers. End of story.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
24 for us in europe…
Newbietothegame,
Of course! My popcorn is your popcorn.
Just take a seat and enjoy the thread.
I have to agree with Benioff that it will be frustrating when, inevitably, certain events that were bound to happen anyway are assumed by some to be a correction of their creative choices for season five. Sansa taking the reins of her destiny and the whole North, Cersei and Dany wrecking havoc, Brienne finally going on a proper quest, Misandei ruling and such; it was all set up in season five and previous seasons, yet I can already see the comments and the clickbait headlines -“Season 6, an implicit apology for the treatment of women in Season 5?”. Ugh.
Also, as for this thread… I hope the comments maintain a semblance of civility. I don’t expect it, but I certainly hope so.
Or maybe the marketing is like that because the season is indeed a strong one for the female characters. See? What Benioff said is already sort of happening.
Glad to hear this
You got any popcorn for ol’ Jack?!
I think the only legit criticism is the Sand Snakes. Everyone else just overreacts to much. Like the Ramsay scene with Sansa. Just cause we all know Ramsay is a pyscho doesn’t mean he’s going to stop being a crazy bastard. Anyway the people that are always complaining on twitter shouldn’t even be watching the show anyway.
What’s the old sports saying? “When a coach starts listening to the fans, pretty soon they’ll be sitting with them”.
Newbietothegame,
On a more serious note.
They did said, there where things that they where not pleased with. There could be numerous reasons why. Reasons not even story-related but producing problems, like having only 7 days to film in Spain for the Dorne scenes…etc.
To me this is enough. It shows they knew there where some problems and they will try to improve.
But they shouldn’t be listening to crazy people on the internet yelling because ”The Mannis” died or Sansa went to WF.
They didn’t get this far by listening to the criticisms, and whooooooooo boy, there have been criticisms. They are currently doing what was once thought to be impossible. Carry on gents.
Mihnea,
I completely agree. Last year Twitter exploded and there were tons of articles about how GoT was terrible then and 2 weeks later everyone was praising it because of Hardhome…
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes.
But you could at least bring some drinks…
Good. Because once you start catering, you’re done.
Ravyn,
Ha. My father is a football coach, so I know exactly what you mean.
When the owner tried to impose a certain player for example, my father would always give a ultimatum, either he is left alone to do his job or they can part ways.
He never let anyone else order him how to play, especially when he would be the one responsable for the results.
Well say! 🙂
The Mannis isn’t dead!
Mihnea,
I’ve got some white wine I’m willing to share…
The ratings continue to grow (Season 5 had HBO’s highest ratings of all time) and the Season 6 trailer has over 60 million views. They are doing any extraordinary job.
Name *,
We’re throwing a feast it looks like! Just keep your ears sharp for ”the rains of castemare” If anyone hears it…we run
They can’t run forever.
They task me, they task me – and I shall have them.
I will chase them round the isle of Leng, and round the Ibbenese maelstrom, and through Valyria’s flames before I give them up!!
Well I don’t know about anyone else but I need the bad pussy.
Like Alan Moore says: “It’s not the job of the artist to give the audience what the audience wants. If the audience knew what they needed, then they wouldn’t be the audience. They would be the artists. It is the job of artists to give the audience what they need.”
Good on the show runners for sticking up for what they believe and KNOW is right.
The only fair criticism I see is Dorne. All the Sansa stuff I found people were just overreacting because it was Sansa. When Ramsey, his girlfriend and his dogs killed that girl in previous seasons there weren’t complaints. In the books Ramsey did a lot worse with Jeyne Poole. If it was her in Sansa’s place last year there wouldn’t be 1/10 of the criticism.
I think they need to appreciate the difference between “criticism of sexual violence” (which they defend due to thematic concerns) and the more basic stuff from even prior seasons of “we felt this one subplot wasn’t working well, please refine it” – by which I mean specifically Dorne.
I mean, I don’t mind they changed Dorne – it looked fine in outline on paper. But it was executed poorly and I hope next season can make up for that.
I don’t expect them to *change* things we don’t like, but I think they should at least *defend* it or at explain their thought processes on why something is the way it is (again, specifically thinking of Dorne).
Yes, very much so, I mean there were critics who said “Daenerys Season 3 gaining an army made up for how powerless she was in Season 2″…..which makes no sense. That wasn’t….wasn’t a “decision” they made, that was in the books long before.
And yes, explicitly, they said the narrative arc was that she was set up in the Season 1 finale as so powerful, then Season 2 was a reality check that she isn’t – yet – and then Season 3 she actually gains in power. I mean this was always the plan.
That said I felt Season 2 Daenerys was weak due to the Qarth storyline being weak in general….but I mean, it was weak in the novels. I commend them for experimenting and trying to expand it a bit – didn’t work too well, but I’m not emotionally attached, and again, it just wasn’t that much to go on in the novels either. And yeah I think the QUALITY of the writing on her Season 3 arc got better.
But those critics who actually think they *decided* to give Daenerys an army in Season 3 as some sort of “reaction” to criticisms that her storyline got boring in Season 2? Nonsense
Sansa in Winterfell plot made no sense.
By going to Winterfell she:
– Gave Boltons legitimacy over the North
– Get raped
And thats about it.
Now if instead she lets say went to White Harbor and took Davos stroyline from the books (learnt about Rickon and Bran there also) THAT would have been awesome. We would get to meet the new northern lords and deal with the aftermath of the RW in the north…
But no … what we got was Sansa being bent over by Ramsey.
Good.
Not even like, anger at this point….I’m just generally puzzled at how this line got in there. I mean if it was just “random funny line”, okay but….what I mean is it feels like it’s part of a longer subplot which was cut out or something.
Does that mean that Season 6 will sucks as much ?
Because you know…that rape scene wasn’t the problem with Season 5, D&D.
People complained about the idiotic writing in general.
Yes, good.
Here they come!
*eats popcorn*
Season 5,
I loved S5.
Hi everybody, I’ve been lurking here a while and enjoy all the speculation about everything!
When I heard reports they were going to make changes to the way female characters are treated, I thought it sounded silly because what are they going to do…imply bad things happen but not show them? Cut away but leave the sound? This would just be contradictory and weak for a show that features brutal medieval era voilence and death in just about every episode.
I don’t see why the ‘Sansa’ scene caused so much uproar when being ‘ill used’ by one’s husband was pretty common hundreds of years ago and not actually a crime until a few decades ago in most European countries. I think people were upset about Sansa because she had been pushed around quite a lot up till that point. To me it’s a bit of a reactionary view point that doesn’t consider that Sansa conciously decided to ‘start playing the game’ when LF suggested she marry Ramsay.
Jon Snow’s Shaggy Mantle,
Welcome! Don’t mind the trolls, we have very few and they are easly spotted.
Well something i was completely sure about knowing D&D but still i’m glad they made it crystal clear with this interview.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I think it made sense because in marrying a Bolton she has also put herself, a Stark back in the picture, it strengthens her families position. If she has a child it is an heir through both possible routes. So being pregnant would not be a totally bad thing for her. People married for dynastic reasons. I’m hoping she will usurp her grotty husband in some way either by doing away with him and having his men loyal to her…or just defeating them in a good old fashioned slaughter.
I am very glad they are not changing anything. But, it’s interesting how the comments here are as if this statement by Benioff and Weiss has to do with rabid internet trolls complaining about everything while completely ignoring the fact that one of their own go to directors Jeremy Podeswa (nominated for an Emmy no less) is the reason they were even asked this question to begin with. Podeswa said they “were responsive to the discussion and there were a couple of things that changed as a result…They did not want to be too overly influenced by that but they did absorb and take it in and it did influence them in a way.”
Weiss can use the “out of context” excuse, but the statement by Podeswa was first mentioned in December. It’s now April. Jeremy Podeswa had 4 months to say hey, wait, that’s not what I said or meant, it’s out of context. I don’t seem to recall that happening….
So these two statements run counter to each other. So which is it?
“Playing the game” would have been her going to White Harbor or Last Hearth to plot there, not in the hands of the Boltons. It makes NO SENSE!
Instead of Manderly we got an old washerwoman, and Brienne staring at a tower for an aentire season to save our “game player”.
And to remember Sansa had such a promising season 4 ending ….
The Dragon Demands,
This one line stands out to me as the thing I hated most in 5 years…and I re-watched everything during the two week marathon they had around xmas on HBO.
It’s not funny or clever or sexy…just brutal.
Ok but how does that make her look in the eyes of the Stark supporters, you know the lords who lost men and sons at the RW to the Freys and Boltons and their breaking of guest right?
It makes Sansa a traitor. A double traitor for that. First she married a Lannister now a Bolton …
Yeah well. It would be so wrong if they’d listen to the amateur fans. They’re the masterminds, not us.
Enjoyed running through the season on a blu-ray binge watch, lots of very good moments 🙂
Watching the extras gives you more appreciation of how much thought goes into the production. It’s a bit bemusing how some only want to keep sinking their teeth into certain aspects of it.
Good response. I always think that creators should listen to criticism, but they shouldn’t dramatically change what they’re going to do just because of a handful of people, because those people aren’t representative of what the whole audience thinks. As a creator you have to trust yourself sometimes.
Besides D&D have done an absolutely fantastic job. Their critics will say they have butchered the story, but I think they’ve way exceeded expectations of what anyone could have dreamed for in an adaptation of ASOIAF. No, it isn’t perfect, but then nothing is. This is an unbelievable adaptation that we will look back on in years to come for how impressive fantasy television can be.
I’m confused… this thread isn’t about Jon Snow?
Mihnea,
Darn! Only now I realize that’s not the actual countdown for us Europeans. Unless we take the next day off (Monday the 25th) and watch during the night. I’m going to do that. I have signed up for a drinking party while watching with Lulu’s Mum, Aryamad and Molestown Bastard. Each of us in our respective homes, of course!
The Long Night,
Apparently no, weird right?
Shy Lady Dragon,
Yeah, sadly I won’t be able to stay so late. Got work on Monday…..
So I won’t be able to see it until the evening when HBO airs it. 🙁
It will be hard to not use the internet for a entire day, out of fear of spoilers.
Mihnea,
Not my business, obviously, but can’t you take a day off? Watch at night, go to sleep and watch again on Monday. Just a suggestion!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Not really.. It depends. Last year I was able to take a day off for the finale.
I’ll try it tough!
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Because all young noblewomen has any say whatsoever in their marriages…. Oh wait…
Paging Marg Tyrell….
Have the European carriers for HBO like Sky Atlantic even said yet if they will do a simultaneous broadcast of the season premiere with the US? Last year it was all very last minute with Sky Atlantic changing their “nope, you’ll have to wait until 21h on
Monday” stance late (not that I stay up at 2am for anything, even bad pussy).
Shhh, let’s keep it that way.
Shy Lady Dragon,
BBQ at my house, 2 hours south of Philly. Bring your own booze. Isn’t it amazing how this show can bring folks together from all over the globe. Even though just in spirit.
Mihnea, I don’t mean this as criticism in the slightest, but you seem appreciative when people correct you, so I just wanted to say that it’s spelt though not tough.
The women of GoT are ALL powerful in different ways and have their individual moments to shine. Yes, ALL of them. Ok maybe the exception is Lolys Stokeworth but I don’t think much time and effort go in to developing her character or plotline.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Woo-hoo! I’ve already booked off monday 25th and am ready to party…very, very quietly because it’ll be 2am and I’m considerate of my neighbours.
😀
The Long Night,
Better have a drink anyway, just in case 😉
I’m in the PCW. When Lord of the Rings came out, there were about 15 fans in this area and we all went out to the premier and then out to supper and drinking. It was a great time.
I haven’t talked to many people that come from the PNW, but I would be happy to hostess a Season 6 episode 1 party if anyone is in the Portland, Vancouver or Portland Metro area (or even Eugene if one doesn’t mind the few hour drive)….. *crickets*
So Shy Lady Dragon Include me in on the party for the TV premier. It comes on at 9pm PST for me, but I will be there. I volunteered to bring my Dornish Deviled Eggs. 😉
rhymeswithweak,
‘Pusse’ was used to refer to a pretty young girl or to licentious behaviour with women long before ‘cock’ became popular as slang for male genitals. Considering how peppered the show is with ‘cocks’, what’s the problem?
To that i will only respond to you:
Olenna Tyrell born a Redwyne
Name *,
Thanks! Couple of words are really hard to remember sometimes!
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
I assumed Sky were going to. Just checked their website and it only says ep 1 is on the 25th, not what time. Certainly hope so, otherwise Molestown bastard and I will be partying to the late night shopping channels instead 🙁
In Greece the cable that has the rights announced they will broadcast season 6 simultaneously with US, which means 4:00 am on Monday but without subtitles and then at 21:00 pm with subs. They did the same last year also. I didn’t know that Sky didn’t do that (of course you don’t need subs there).
Newbietothegame,
It is amazing! Besides reading and talking for hours about my favourite show (without being considered immature/ a weirdo), there’s this wonderful opportunity of sharing a hobby with various people all over the world but who, somehow, feel related.
Cheers, south of Philly lady!
Mihnea,
You’re welcome. 🙂
Well, I guess we’ll see for ourselves who’s being more accurate on this.
oh, what a droll April Fool’s puzzle by the lads…
The season will NOT be affected by “fan criticism”? What an interesting phrase…
“Fan criticism” is obviously meant as an anagram for the (much more common) phrase “sic[k] infirm cat”.
And if season 6 will NOT be affected by a sick, infirm cat, then it stands to reason that it WILL be affected by a HEALTHY DOG, alluding to The Hound’s return to action.
Cleganebowl confirmed.
The headline of this article gave me a fright, thinking we had another Zack Snyder level situation on our hands.
That first line, though, is a little reassuring that they did take in SOME criticisms.
Well as I say it seemed a late decision last time to bring it forward, a cynic might suggest it’s for good PR…
I usually watch the online catch up the following day at 7am, which is an odd time to watch it, but I miss out on annoying ad breaks while it’s too early to have heard any spoilers.
Wait, do you insinuate that this post and the whole”we haven’t changed a thing” is a prank for April fools’ day??
?
Lulus Mum,
In my country I have HBO and I’m sure I can watch live. I really hope that your Sky Atlantic will be a good bloke and do the same. If it’s 2 a.m. in England I guess it’s 4 a.m. here IIRC. I’ll check by then.
Mihnea,
“Coughs” sick day cough cough!!!! Stay up and get drunk mate
I guess she was too much under Littlefinger’s influence, and there is no way why he would allow her to go anywhere that didn’t serve his plans.
Speaking of LF, I still haven’t decided whether he’s an entirely evil character or if there is something more there.
It will be 2am in the UK don’t worry folks they do it every year
JCDavis,
Glad to have you here, m’lady! You’re always welcome! I’ll try to get lamprey pie and Arbor Gold.
I was sorry that I didn’t have any family and friends to watch GOT with – only a cousin of mine, who lives near Frankfurt; he comes to visit his family several times a year, but never in April-May.
I’m very grateful to WOTW for letting me know people to share my passion for ASOIAF/ GOT. For me season 6 will be the first to watch together with friends all over the world. I started to come to this site before season 5, but I didn’t really know the people at that time.
Very glad they are doing damage control on that one.
I mean… we internet nerds are crazy and pick apart everything. If they straight-up listened to us the show would be Sir Pounce, Puss in Boots 2, the R rated version with zombies and dragons… on Ice.
Getting 99% of stuff right is on the story written to be unadaptable is fine by me…
Shy Lady Dragon,
What time is it scheduled on?
I think we’re celebrating the first more so because we’re actually now in the month that Season 6 premieres. I cannot believe GoT is finally coming back in 23 days!
It was Sansa who had power over Littlefinger remember? One word about Lysa and Royce would had kill him on the spot.
And how the hell is LF going to explain to Royce that he handed over Sansa to the Boltons?
Just poor screenwriting there is no explaining it.
Sou,
I’m not sure. Please, some of the Americans, can you tell Sou, please?
The British say it’s at 2 a.m. in the UK.
It’ll be 3 a.m. here, gonna be staying up on every Sunday night, despite work on Monday. Priorities be damned.
I am located on the east coast of the US. We will see it at 9 p.m.
Most people say Sansa made a “decision” of marrying Ramsay, but I don’t see it.
If Littlefinger wanted Sansa to make a choice, he could’ve asked her when she was in the Vale, safe and surrounded by people who wanted to protect her.
Instead, he took her to the middle of nowhere, and instilled that decision upon her, after accepting her marriage proposal, and therefore exposing her true identity to the enemy.
He said that if she wanted to go back to the Vale he would allow her, but the message here is very clear: You can do whatever I commanded you to willingly or not, but you will do it nonetheless.
Sansa had no decision to make at all.
Which is 5 hours behind UK time, 6 hours behind CEST Paris/Berlin, 7 hours behind EEST.
Oh God. This is totally going to happen, and it’s going to drive me up the Wall. I can already see the think pieces dancing before my eyes, down to the titles and the specific websites that will run them. And not one of them will cite this quote or consider the idea of a long-term plan, will they? Everything must be reactionary, for Internet Rage is the true force of change in this world.
I think I’ll start drinking now. Or better yet, find a filter for my search engine.
(And for the record, I’m not disparaging or dismissing the criticisms of Season 5. Just the idea that Benioff and Weiss are going to cater to them directly.)
Oh please, you think she will rat out the man that finally got her out of the hell hole KL and saved her from her batshit crazy aunt? At that point she still believed he only had her best interest in mind. And cared for her.
For explaining the marriage to Bolton, easy, he did not give anything away while with Royce. He does what he is best at, deceive. Telling him Sansa wanted to reclaim Winterfell, which she did, after much coercing by that weasel. Remember, LF made it look like it was HER decision to go and marry Ramsey.
Jared,
*offers bottle of white* It’s quite nice. *hic*
we just have to wait and see what happens with Sansa because Uniting North and leading an army by giving speech are some of the things i dont think sansa can do or will do in the books .North can be united under her name but i dont expect her to be leading anything but just as a proxy .
Newbietothegame,
Don’t worry about him; he’s a known troll. It’s the same people every year.
Is anybody else’s HBO GO not current? On the mobile app it still shows yesterday’s The Bear and the Maiden Fair for me and on the PC app it still shows 205 The Ghost of Harrenhal, which is almost 2 weeks behind?
Are there any people on this site interested in having a viewing party in Toronto?
I mostly agree with the way you’re looking at it. The only meaningful decision s5 Sansa made for herself was “guess I might as well jump off a castle wall with this dickless idiot” and even that had a lot of the same “do this or you’re completely screwed” tones that her other “decisions” throughout the season had.
Doesn’t make it bad writing or an uninteresting character, but I do think we’re coming to a point where the audience will require something other than a series of choices between “awful” and “slightly worse than awful” to keep caring about her.
Jumping from the wall was at least doing something really X-TREME, even if it was another no-good-decisions-available situation. That makes me hopeful for s6 Sansa.
Now as to the general topic of arguing on the internet about whether the creators of a TV show should create their TV show to fit the whims of people arguing on the internet… I’m like, against it, and stuff.
Good for D&D.
I hope we can set up a party right here on WotW. Post on an open thread while sipping our drinks, munching on our snacks. I think that everyone should make sure to have adequate drinks on hand for Episode 1, especially. 😀
Name *,
Your offering is graciously accepted! When it comes to this subject, I think Tywin and Tyrion’s exchange from “Second Sons” (the most recent Memory Lane episode) is highly appropriate:
“You seem rather drunk.”
“Rather less than I plan to be.”
Jared,
“Internet Rage is the true force of change in this world.”
LOL … I actually spit out my water at this!!!! Thanks!
Twitter: Changing the world 140 characters at a time!!
I’m not in Canada, but I’m wondering if anyone else plans on having a premiere party? If I’m being honest, I tend to rather watch the episodes in private because I’m so zoned in to them lol.
oh boy
Jack Bauer 24,
I usually prefer to watch them alone as well, but that can be done on a re-watch… being with other people would be fun though, just based on seeing all the reaction videos on Youtube!
Nevermind. 🙁
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Yes… but power means nothing if youdon’t know how to use it.
Hopefully she will finally learn this season!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Newbietothegame,
Thanks!
Instead of making arguments, when conflicted with facts that do not suit their own perception of the onscreen events the easyest way out is to yell TROLL to someone.
You people are worse than trolls, atleast they can sometimes be fun.
Can I get in on this? The other half is a former bartender- I have at least 40 different types of vodka, not to mention all the other fine adult libations. We also cater to those who choose their beverage without a possible hangover if overdone.
First time posting but long time fan of the site (and everyones’ insightful and hilarious comments!) Does anyone know if there is a viewing party or screening event in NYC on the 24th? If not, anyone in Manhattan interested in putting something together?
Exactly my thoughts; I think I would get homicidal if I was trying to watch and some people were commenting next to me, let alone partying.
My husband, for instance, stays clear off the tv room.
Jared,
Speaking of which, why stop at being drunk? If the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is officially recognized in multiple countries, I say let’s follow in their footsteps and do the same with the Church of Tits and Wine. Do you think we’ll be allowed to erect shrines in brothels?
Hoyti Von Totiy,
So what you are saying is that you really wanted to see Sir-Too-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse, right?
Do you think that the Great Green Arkleseizure is a facet of the Many-Faced God? If so, I’m in…
Chill love, no reason to get so excited.
It was not fair calling you a troll, I give you that, and by having “talked” to you a few times I know you are not one, but don’t get so worked up for nothing.
Sansa getting bent over and one washer woman as her only “north remembers” supporter … or this:
A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!
Hard choice indeed. NOT!
#nooneunderstands
Jack Bauer 24,
I am watching S5 eps 7&8 at Go right now. And what a wonderful season the fifth is!!! Still I can’t understand all this bitterness against it. Frankly
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I have a bad feeling that Sansa will be bent over by one Harry the Heir in the books, he came off like a horrible jerk in the one chapter we got last year. And my understanding is that Sir-too-Fat or his equivalent may make an appearance this season, at least I remember reading something like that. Don’t lose hope.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
wow! never read this but i just got the chills!! dayum
Danny,
When that happens. The meltdown will be glorious.
thx 🙂
My main problem is they hyped up Sansa with Season 4 ending only to revert her to Season1-Sansa in season 5. I had high expectations for her storyline.
Connecting to this, im sick of GOT portraying girls that are, well “girly” like 90% girls are as weak (Caitlyn when she freed Jamie), naive (Dany, Sansa) and bordeline idiots (Cersei), while pants wearing tomboys like Arya, Yara and Brienne are in untouchable god-mode all the time.
Margaery is the only one who is allowed to be a “girl” with a fully functioning brain.
#nooneunderstands
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Sansa had indeed a kind of power in that episode that she thought she could use over a man who has chewed power every single day of his life. That would be a joke really and bad writing. LF left her with the illusion that she is a partner and pushed her all the way to his own schemes. Of course he miscalculated a lot on the way and I assume we will see that Sansa’s second time with him will be a lot more sour for him. LF has plenty of reasons to offer to the Lords of Vale as to why he sent Sansa to WF and all are plausible. This is not poor writing at all. Your lack of perspective of a situation is a deficit that deprives you from clear thinking. But that is a matter of choice, your own choice…
dothrakian raven,
Wow. This was perfectly said..
*moves in with MeeraReed* 🙂
Hah! For as original an artist as Alan Moore is, he detests adaptations of his work. I am shocked at how direct he is at criticizing those who adapt his work (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, etc) and pay him large sums of money to do so. He is a good example of an author that should not be associated with any adaptation of his work. Odd dude, he is…but I love his stuff.
Hey, as John Oliver proved with his Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption stunt, it’s absurdly easy for new churches to get official recognition in the United States, no matter how silly the concept is. Why not? Let all followers of the God of Tits and Wine come forward and proclaim their faith!
All followers of the God of Tits and Dragons are welcome to attend as well. They shall complete our new Holy Trinity. Services will be held every Sunday in brothels across the world … provided, of course, that the brothel gets HBO. At the very least, the brothel needs to have Wi-Fi so that someone can log on to HBO Now. We’re not heathens here.
And if pastors can solicit contributions from their parishioners for their private planes and spiritual hunting retreats, we can certainly ask for contributions from our followers. All proceeds (tax-exempt!) go towards our communion wine. And beer. And spirits.
What? It’s for religious purposes. And our belief is deeply held. 😉
Jared,
F*ck it. Let’s do this.
I for one accept the god of tits and wine as the one true god
JCDavis,
Haha. I’m currently working on a recipe book to offer guests upon arrival. Instead of water or soda or tea, I want to be able to offer a variety of beers, wines, cocktails, etc. 🙂
Seems we are all scattered to the winds.
Last year I followed Axey on live Twitter feed. I am going to TRY. I just don’t think I am that fast, usually I am too stunned watching the show to think much for a bit after I have had a chance to process everything I just saw.
But I got a Twitter account just for this reason in the off season and I am going to give it a go. If you have Twitter and feel you are up for it…come and join the live Tweetfest on Sunday night the 24th. Axey will announce what to use for hashtags and the exact time.
Oh and if you want to meet up there I am @LadyFionavar
Hoyti Von Totiy,
The fact the D&D raised your expectations in S4 about Sansa only to deal a blow to them a season later is not a proof of poor writing it is a strictly linear interpretation from your side. To give Sansa a bit of power in one scene, some feathers and black hair is not at all a promise of Sansa-power in S5. This is your obsession. And I wonder why you weren’t equally disappointed when Cercei got her Walk while in the whole S5 we saw a more powerful Cersei than any season before? Why didn’t you complain when Septa threw Cersei in the cells for bad writing? Because according to your logic the show runners prepared us for an all powerful Cersei and all of a sudden she was seeing daylight through a cell window. A great deal of what constitutes a work in general and let’s say it a great work of art, is based upon the power of the author to revert the odds, to change the fates of his characters in a way that creates unthought of circumstances for them which very often escape the mind of the average reader and viewer whose desires or expectations can be so predictable and indeed boring. What makes writers great writers, directors great directors and painters great painters is the way they manage to use their material in ways the audience cannot foresee or expect. They fail to do so when they compromise with what the average reader/viewer wants to see. I am not saying that D&D are great artists, time will tell. But this is their aspiration and they follow this path. In the end this is why Martin’s epos became so successful because he defied the laws of the average and trite expectations.
Maybe we can all hold off on having meltdowns over changed plot points until we see where the characters end up in future seasons? At that point we’ll have enough information to judge whether or not these changes were smart choices for the story in the medium of television. Till then, people are basically just pitching fits because their personal vision of the story hasn’t been depicted. It’s anyone’s right to do this, of course, but it’s really boring to read tantrums in the comments section.
I didn’t love Sansa-in-Winterfell either, but if it gets her to something epic and essential to the plot this season, and dispenses with hours and hours of her flirting and keeping accounts in the Vale and accommodating Littlefinger’s creepiness, so much the better.
I’m all in with the idea of the introvert fans having a big global party by sitting alone and watching in solitude while remaining together in spirit….but is anyone out there from Montana, by chance?
fierce as a wolverine,
Shooo, Shoooo. We have no need of reasonable people like you here.
To be fair, in both those examples he gave his share of the money and all credit to the artist/co-creator. Hence Watchmen just says ‘Based on the graphic novel by Dave Gibbons’ in the credits.
I laughed loudly at that closing credit as I sat in my theatre seat during opening night, in between griping and applauding the major “adapted” changes to the ending! 🙂
(…did anyone really want giant monster tentacles as part of the film’s ending…? Glad they went in a different, albeit more relevant, direction for the adaptation.)
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I think it is all matter of perspective. You have to look at them as girls/women but never forget that they are individuals shaped by their upbringing and unique personality traits. Sansa is naive, this much is true, but she’s also 14-15 and had Ned Stark and Catelyn Tully as parents. From what we know, the Starks had a stable and loving marriage where Sansa was allowed to dream about Florian and Jonquil because why not? You can argue that both her parents were naive and you’d probably be correct. Margery on the other hand grew up with the Queen of Thornes.
Asha Greyjoy is the daughter of the Sea, of hardened people, she spent years and years being her father’s heir, even if Theon was the de-facto one. It would be weird for her to be naive. Dany annoys me plenty with her decision making but she’s still in fact a teenager and a entitled one at that! She grew up knowing a crown was owed to her, knowing she was the blood of the dragon and other than delusional Viserys she had no real role model. In fact, you can argue that Viserys was even more naive than Dany. Speaking of naivete, don’t you think Brienne suffers much from it too? She may be able to slice and dice men left and right but she’s still naive in many ways.
As for Catelyn, again a matter of perspective, you judged her as weak for releasing the king slayer for her girls but I completely understand why she did it. She loved her daughters, is that a weakness? I can’t really labeled that.
??
Yep. D&D: “Should we strip out her agency or her emotional complexity? Gotta be one or the other…”
Does a disservice to both types of ladies.
Mihnea,
All right then, I’ll just take myself off to my isolated mountaintop and be reasonable in solitude.
Jessica Henwick (Nymeria Sand) to play female lead alongside Finn Jones in The Iron Fist!
https://twitter.com/marcelocordova/status/716004540689027072
Jack Bauer 24,
I wonder if this kind of shifts the assumption that the Iron Fist casting means Loras is dying for sure. I’m pretty confident Nym’s not dying this season, given that Dorne is apparently barely appearing at all this season, but she’ll apparently have time to film this. Maybe Iron Fist filming really is just lining up well with Thrones filming.
Loras is still probably a goner though, lol
GoT’s up, hoes down. That’s what it is D&D, stick to your guns
I nominate Ian McShane as our Grand Cleric, Purveyor of Spirits, Bringer of Holy Hangover, and Chief Prophet of Our Lady of the Buxom. Long may he reign!
We should definitely find a suitable position for Stephen Dillane as well! He seems to share much of dogmatic certainty with His Holiness McShane.
Jack Bauer 24,
The jury’s still out on FJ playing IF. But I gotta have faith, after all they’re straight up KILLING it with DD, it’s my 2nd fav show after the mighty GoT. (No comment about JJ)
Man, I’m so sick of people whinging about sexism in GoT, and so-called “problematic” (ridiculous term) scenes. Get the hell over yourselves. This is entertainment. This isn’t real life and if you take it seriously you need a reality check. Despite what some deluded academics might believe, it offers no genuine reflection on society at large or any new insights into human nature. It’s a television programme like all others. And, the “owners” of the production happen to be David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, hence they should be entitled to do whatever the hell they want with it without needing to justify a single thing, because it’s their creative endeavor and they’re the ones who work their arses off to make it happen.
I’m finding more and more often there’s this pervasive, insidious notion that creative works, etc. must meet this “standard” of morality that seems to be typically dictated by amateurish internet polemicists. Morality is a human construct that doesn’t actually exist outside of your mind – so why should we expect anyone’s moralities to align, ever?! Crazy stuff. Keep it up D&D, I’ve loved it from day one and will doubtless continue to do so with this new season!
Cosine,
(Chef”s kissing gesture)
The nasty bits,
Clarify: I’m aware FJ is playing IF, I’m so so on the casting
Glad to hear, I was worried about Jeremy’s comments. Some of you millennials should just avoid watching the show if it’s causing you PTSD.
Jack Bauer 24,
Wow, great role for her. She was probably the least well served Sand Snake in Season 5 and had literally nothing to do, so I hope she gets some better material in GoT in the future, but Iron Fist should be a great series for her. I’m sure there will be a fair bit of interest from GoT fans in Iron Fist now with both Finn and Jessica in it. It’s great when GoT get great roles in other series.
JCDavis,
Hey all! [waving at everyone]. Soooo jealous that you-all are getting “together” for a watch party. But Axey’s Twit-fest is one of the best features of on-season reporting on this site! I love reading his summary of the best tweets during the first airing. They are LOL funny! People who watch GoT are so dang witty and from all walks of life and parts of the world. It’s truely a global, classless (in more ways than one) phenomenon! I urge all newbies to check it out!
Enjoy the p-corn and wine!!
I’m not so sure it is happening more often, but I do think with modern platforms, we are much more exposed to it. Whereas it used to be much easier to just tune out that sort of stuff, in this day and age we are constantly inundated with it. It’s good to see those behind GoT sticking to their guns.
LatrineDiggerBrian,
Well, some Millennials, not all, but definitely some, seem to acquire PTSD from someone simply farting in their general direction.
Look…I’m all for religious freedom and that’s why I’m offering up my secret collection of poster tit pics for worship by the Church of Tits and Wine. There will be a small(ish) donation fee to have a brief viewing of the pictures. If you would like to see actual tits and drink real wine, you must tithe 40% of your gross income to me. I will be setting up a gofundme account soon.
No PTSD allowed. (experiences PTSD from re-emergence of the word ‘agency’ in regards to Sansa)
Sansa was always naive, unlike Arya, just deal with it. She’s also a kid. She can’t suddenly outsmart people like Littlefinger and cant be expected to act so rationally all the time. Nor can she be expected to stab Ramsay before he has sex with her(yes its rape in modern terms but not in those days, she expected Ramsay to deflower her as soon as she agreed to marry him). Her goal was to wait till Stannis takes over Winterfell. Its pretty simple. People overanalyze and complain way too much.
Great news.
The Dragon Demands,
I wonder what the response would have been if the show had included the book scene where Gregor raped a Lord’s pubescent daughter as payment for The Mountain staying in the man’s keep. Furthermore she was raped in her father’s presence.
Well, to be fair, I expect a version of that speech to show up somewhere before a certain battle in either the Sansa or Jon plots this year; and It’ll probably be addressed to Sansa…or Rickon…or Sansa and Rickon…or Sansa, Rickon and Jon?…Well, anyhow, a Stark will be present; and presumably Davos too, if he’s to be on either Team Jon or Team Sansa this year…
The only criticism that would have mattered would have been lower ratings at the end of the season than at the start. As that did not happen, there really was nothing to address.
I think that the goal was even simpler than that. LF knew that Sansa had watched Cersei, and that Sansa should know that a wife could manipulate and control a husband: and, eventually, set him up to get gored by a boar (literally or figuratively).
Of course, they would have had no idea what they were in for with Ramsay. The assumption that he would be pliable and easy to manipulate ordinarily would have been a good one: as a legitimized bastard, Ramsay probably would be unsophisticated, uneducated and eager to please his “betters” in order to appear to be their equal. Alas! He was a well-mannered psychopath instead.
HotPinkLipstick,
I demand royalities!!!
IKR! As much as it drove me out of my mind hearing my Lit professors constantly go on about “misogyny” and “homosexual undertones” in relation to every fucking thing we read, at least I was spared them droning on about “agency.”
The tithing percentage has just increased to 45%!
Oh lordy, that was 200 level lit classes and I had to take at least four of those by adjunct professors who thought their analysis was edgy. Fuck that noise. I was never so happy to move up to 300 level classes and spend 3 weeks discussing the em dash. And hot damn, the free for all of 400 level!
Every time I see the words, “agency”, “undertones”, and “latent” I want to shove a college know-it-all hippy off a cliff.
http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/got50-season-3-quiz
Huh? It says if you’ve been following #GoT50 you’ve just finished streaming Season 3 and to take the quiz.
There’s two episodes left of Season 3 though. Rains of Castamere is tomorrow.
When its shown in the US at 9pm, its 2am here (in the Canary Islands) so the same time as in the UK. So that’s the first ‘sesh’ I will have with my daughters who are also GoT nuts 🙂
Then at 9pm on Monday evening, its aired again on Sky Atlantic and usually followed by ‘Thronecast’ which is always a hoot! So I’ll be doing plenty of repeat binge watching that week (and the weeks that follow) as I often miss stuff on the first time around 😉
All I care about at this point is that at some point in season 5 the characters I’m most rooting for are reunited. If not I’ll be sad, but as long as they’re not killed off I’ll be back and waiting for said reunion in season 7 and beyond lol
Netflix made a Game of Thrones joke for April 1. It’s all in Portuguese, but trust me you will get it. 😀 Game of Thrones is on Netflix now and you don’t even need an account to view it!
Black Raven,
I’m the same I will watch it twice and then thronecast which was much improved last season
Mihnea,
Can I have some? I forgot to bring a snack. Ah forget it, as usual I’m late to the party, and it’s almost over.
Mihnea,
Lol. When the credits started rolling after the Bear and Maiden fair yesterday, I cranked up the ROC tune because I think it’s just so epic/haunting.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I agree, it sounds like that would have been a more interesting route to go and not feel so disjointed
Nymeria Warrior Queen, HotPinkLipstick,
So I guess I was fortunate to study Literature in Eastern Europe! None of my professors have ever said anything about misogyny, homosexuality was mentioned only while discussing Oscar Wilde and don’t even know how to say “agency” in my native language. My professors were “boring” people with themes, motives, symbols, characters analysis, naratology, literary movements…
The Dragon Demands,
I don’t know why people got angry over it….what did I miss? She was basically telling him he wants a “bad girl” right? That he aspire to high born marriage but really wants someone like her in his bed. It was a dumb way to say, poor choice of words, that’s all.
The Long Night,
Sadly, no.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Wait, what is the discussion about the wee hours of the morning?? It airs Sundays at 9 pm in the US….
Jack Bauer 24,
Same here, I like to just focus and be absorbed when watching and do not like to discuss things as they are happening, only afterwards when everything has processed.
JCDavis,
What is the beneift of being ont witter? Is it better than fb? I don’t do fb anymore it got annoying
YgritTe,
Yes, and when it’s 9 p.m. in the US in Europe are “the wee hours in the morning”… In my country GOT is on Monday evenings, but it can be also watched at the same time with the Americans, at least for the first episode. I’m not sure about the rest of them, I have watched only on Monday evenings by now. This time I won’t have the patience to wait till Monday at 8 or 9 p.m…
dragonbringer,
In all honesty Sansa can go with Vale and outsmarting Littlefinger along the way. Saving Stark pro alliance and it would be something LF might do. As Stark forces will be decimated and saving them would put him and Sansa in perfect position. None would be stronger than Vale and with Sansa as for example last Stark. Rickon might die during the events. Then uniting North under Rickon’s or her name. Depends who is alive but if Rickon is, LF might be plotting his murder.
Jon is a just a bastard but he might convince some smaller houses to go into war with him as they’re still loyal to Starks and hate Boltons more than Wildlings. That would explain spoilers from the set.
Or they’ll go with Sansa uniting Northern houses which makes sense and then hopefully dealing with Littlefinger because i doubt she will believe him after he left her with the Boltons. For such a smart man he underestimated Ramsay’s craziness. Her arc is supposed to be best. Either Vale or uniting North houses.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Yeah I saw that after I’d already posted lol. Man, it sucks with my work hours because by the time I get home after midnight and able to see what’s new, most everyone’s already talked about it and then left to go to bed lol. Did not realize you guys don ‘t get to see the show until the following day. Oh man, what kind of shenanigans is that going to create on this board lol! So, you can catch if before Monday night if you stay up till wee hours of morning? If you’re going to do that then we’ll only be 5 or so hours apart.
Didn’t you know? Literature professors actually do not know anything about literature: after all, your list leaves off the most important purpose of literature, world-building! And what can you say about people who claim that there is no character development in Lord of the Rings: Frodo clearly was different at the end!!!
I mean, seriously, these guys know less about literature than climate change scientists know about climate, or evolutionary biologists know about biology, or astrophysicists know about how the universe was formed…..
😀
(By the way, I saw a great example of a She Lady Dragon Knife this week! That made me chuckle….)
Old hatreds are almost always more powerful than new hatreds. Again, this is why a Wildling invasion would be the best thing for which the Boltons could hope: that is when “my brothers and I against our cousins” becomes “our family against the world.”
God bless D & D.
I don’t understand the claims that women are mistreated. The man are usually on the receiving end of worse things: body parts chopped of (head, hand, wiener..), stabbed, roasted, skinned – you name it.
The only female character of meaning to die was Catelyn, maybe Shae.
Wimsey,
You keep going with this rather simplistic version that everybody will be against them and refuse to acknowledge good chance that some small houses and we know there are some who fights with wildlings are against Boltons.
Geralt of Rivia,
The simplistic view is that the Northerners will forget about their ancient and easily-justified hatred of the Wildlings because of recent events. Humans forget small things because of recent events – for example, the issues important in the US presidential elections now (April) probably will not be the important issues in October – but not big things. Old enmities die only with great difficulty: and that is a complexity of our behavior, not a simplicity of it. The inability to get past ancient prejudices due to more pressing new issues has hurt human causes many times in the past.
And, incidentally, what we know is that there are Northerners fighting against the Boltons and Wildlings fighting against the Boltons. We do not know that the Northerners and Wildlings are allied against the Boltons.
Umm, off topic.
This is actually old news, but I haven’t seen it as a news item on here, perhaps because it isn’t directly related enough? Or it’s still a rumor?
When I Googled Maisie today to see how old she was, I noticed an article from April 1st about her playing Wolfsbane on X-Men. I thought, ha, ha – very funny – April Fools. Sophie’s on there, and Arya of House Wolf is about to start warging into her wolf this season, we hope, and so it would be hilarious to see her play a werewolf in a different universe. But then I thought I’d double-check. And it seems legit. Sites started reporting on the 31st, and sites are still reporting the rumor today.
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/exclusive-are-these-josh-boones-first-three-new-mutants
Ginevra,
I think that this was a rumor that came out a couple of days ago and was promptly debunked within a few hours.
Yes, you were fortunate. It was maddening. I was interested in the works as stories and in the context of the times they were written. I was not not interested in everything being reduced to misogyny and latent homosexual tendencies, nor imposing 20th century psycho-babble to texts written hundreds of years ago. More modern texts, fine, if they absolutely must, but I still find looking at works of literature far more interesting in terms of the socio/historical/political climates in which they were written, and how that impacted the stories the authors chose to tell.
On a couple of side-notes…
I’m almost caught up on Vikings. So, um, yeah, imo, how GoT depicted Theon losing his “favorite toy” has nothing on the scene (it may have been from the end of season 3) where Lagertha chops off the guy’s dick. Holy. Shit.
Also, I couldn’t help but crack up over the Outlander commercial…
“Forget Winter, Spring is Coming.”
Wimsey,
Thanks, Wimsey.
Erm, I’m not sure which post to post this in and I don’t really want to clutter up The Rains of Castamere threads with anything potentially funny or light-hearted, so I’ll stick it here. Kit Harington takes a lie detector test on the Jonathan Ross Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtfbVOme-eM
If so, why wasn’t he allowed to take pics with fans? Why was he hiding? Why did he try to keep his corpse scenes a secret?
That was the best interview ever. His face when the stone comes out. LOL. 😀
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3249408/EXCLUSIVE-SPOILER-ALERT-Kit-Harington-spotted-filming-Game-Thrones-set-Belfast-Jon-Snow-alive.html You can that Jon is in Stark outfit and near him on that set is a Bolton cross.Do you see it?This is evidence that Jon will not be a corpse for long :))
Pigeon,
Them host asked him if he comes back as “Jack” something or other. I couldn’t catch the last name, but who is he referring to?
Wimsey,
I took a minute to think whether there was any world-building mentioned and I can’t remember any evidence. Only once, during a private conversation with one of the best professors I have ever had, I mentioned that I was reading Dune and was mesmerized. I didn’t even know if he had heard about it and was very pleasantly surprised when he praised the books, referring to world-building as its main achievement.
Please tell me about the recent Shy Lady Dragon Knife. I’m proud you named it after me. You should register it 🙂
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I fully agree with your view on the subject. I daresay your professors’ insistance on those topics – completely unrelated to the time when those books were written – sounds very strange to me. And completely unprofessional.
YgritTe,
I was curious about that guy as well, something Jeremy I think. I don’t know him, so I didn’t get the joke.
I hope that after this interview you don’t worry about Jon’s coming back. For me it was clear that it was a game (see the playful atmosphere) and I was glad that Kit didn’t seem bothered at all.
Shy Lady Dragon,
Im not worried anymore. To be perfectly honest the closer we get to S6 the less interested I am. Weird right!? What was really going on with that stone thingy lol?
Jeremy Kyle. He’s a trash talk TV host (maybe like Maury in the US, although I don’t watch any of them!) in England, and he uses lie detector tests on his guests. 😛
heh, there probably was not. As a veteran of a Tolkien group, I heard lots of stories from Tolkien fans who were upset that their literature professors did not view “world-building” as a literary achievement.
The flip-side is that I know more than one academic in the literary circles who holds fantasy fans that we science types hold creationists and climate-change deniers. They insistence that “good” literature is dedicated to imagining new worlds rather than thought-experiments about what people do under different circumstances in the same way people like me hold claims that evolution or climate science or astrophysics are “junk science” because they leave out gods.
But were they unrelated to those times? It seems to me that those topics are pretty timeless. It seems that they will become anachronistic only once sexism, homophobia, etc., are eliminated, or at least reduced to the point where the sexists and homophobes feel obliged to at least pretend that they are not really sexists and homophobes (as, say, most modern racists do).
And, let’s face it, the only way to sneak those views out there (until fairly recently) was obliquely in literature, plays, etc.
Oh, and I’ll patent the knife name. Do you want a 49% cut in the royalties? 😀
That doesn’t sound like a very tasty flavour of corn, Mihnea!
Some books can very easily combine misogyny AND homosexual undertones, too. Case in point: E.M. Forster’s A Passage to India. Every woman in it is a foul and unpleasant 2-d stereotype apart from a girl who falsely accuses a man of rape, and a sexless, harmless mumsy figure. I’ve never heard any professor point this out, mostly because they’re too busy whooping about the fact that it criticises colonialism or its purported gay subtext (IRL, Forster was gay and in love with a straight Muslim Indian, though honestly the guys in A Passage seem to be just really good friends.) Just because a book is popularly deemed ‘progressive’ in one way doesn’t mean it can’t have been bigoted in another way, including for its era – No Name and Tess of the D’Urbervilles had been out for decades by that point; Lady Chatterley’s Lover would be written six years later; all of those managed not to be really awful about females.
This seems a smart analysis.
Wimsey,
You can talk about all you want but there are houses fighting with wildlings. Small number but at least something. Struggle you logic here where everybody needs to be against them. Just looks at Hardhome. Jon convinced some of them and most of them simply refused. Jon and WIldlings against Boltons, Karstarks and Umbers good luck with that. D&D are not dumb.
Wimsey,
You’re right, those topics are timeless. But there were writers who didn’t give them a single thought. E.g. what about Jane Austen and homosexuality? I’m sure they have nothing in common (not that I know of anyone stating otherwise). It would be more than silly to have some critic imagining that Jane Austen was a lesbian (because she didn’t want to get married) and so was Charlotte in Pride and Prejudice – in love for Elizabeth, let’s say!
Of course, Thomas Mann was a closeted homosexual and, perhaps unwillingly, his feelings were leaked in Death in Venice. But I daresay there are fewer cases of this kind than of authors who chose not to write about topics which were not common for them.
By all means, 49% sounds fair! I’ll take you offer 🙂
Dornish Pastie,
Unfortunately you are right, at least in my case, about Passage to India. My professor who lectured about E. M. Forster didn’t say anything about his homosexuality. I think he should, even if the characters in the novel are just friends. If E. M. Forster had liven in this century, maybe he would have chosen to make those male characters (I don’t recall their names – the Indian was dr. Aziz, am I right?) lovers, even if it would have been a “historical” novel dealing with colonialism. The acusations would have been even more stupid.
The logic is based on a simple and time-tested premise: me against my brothers, my brothers and I against our cousins, my family against the world. This notion of “inclusive fitness” is basically a law of animal behavior, including humans.
I will reverse this. Say that are an advisor to Roose Bolton. Say further that nothing was happening in the world other than the events in Westeros itself. The Northerners are mad at your administration (obviously). You have to give Lord Roose advice on how do deal with this. What is the best advice that you could offer (never minding immediately the tactical feasibility of it)?
Simple: Find some way of convincing the other Northerners that there is going to be a Wildling Invasion. Hell, if need be, then find some way to lure some Wildlings south if that makes it more believable.
Why? Fear of the “other” is a time-tested way to get people to put aside civil disputes in favor of unity. Jews, illegal immigrants, communists, Germans, Russians, Americans, or, in this world, Wildlings: the old, common enemy is a constant threat to “our” way of life, and although we are having disagreements about what exactly “our” way of life is just now, we have to put those disagreements on hold until “they” are defeated. This is why there are people who believe that the Bush administration staged the 9-11 attacks: given the very divided mood due to a highly contested election, an attack by an old enemy was just the thing to get people to forget that. (“Hanging chad” jokes stopped about then.) However, sometimes, you just get a gift from the actual enemy!
But does that actually happen? I certainly am aware of how literary scholars invoke the personalities of the authors and, in reverse, attempt to ascertain what authors were thinking when they wrote things. However, that sort of seems like a “Holand Reed is the High Sparrow” stretch of fan-fiction!
Wimsey,
I certainly hope it doesn’t. I haven’t met such a crazy idea so far. It was just an extreme suggestion about how things can be distorted when one is determined to prove that something important for them must be present in a certain work or art.
B-Mac,
That scene was mild compared to watching Borgia. 😉 (good ol’ Rodrigo getting off on watching his daughter consumate her marriage)
Luka Nieto,
How’s she going to do this – sew it a new wardrobe?
Vincent Stark,
It occurs to me that Littlefinger has little authority on his own to marry off Sansa. I’m guessing that Cersai had something to do with the betrothal. I don’t know what the term is, but I think she became something like a ward of the crown?
Dornish Pastie,
I wasn’t saying books cannot combine those things, nor that one or the other may not be present. However, to reduce literally everything we read to misogyny and latent homosexual undertones is absurd. It seemed to be the fashion, at the time, just as 10 years ago you couldn’t attend a lecture without having to hear about the male gaze, the female gaze, or the fractured gaze. I mean, if you have no other avenue into your investigation of, say, Shakespeare, without going into that sort of thing, perhaps the lecturer’s PhD from Cal isn’t worth the paper on which it is written.