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There was no mercy for viewers, book readers and Unsullied alike, in tonight’s episode of Game of Thrones.
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section will contain spoilers! If you haven’t read the books yet, please check out our non-book-reader recap. Thanks!
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In tonight’s episode, the Shireen BBQ was declared a success; the ice is melting! (Or hey they could’ve waited a couple days to see if the weather changed but okay, let’s thank R’hllor.) Melisandre notifies Stannis of their good fortune and tries to rub up on him; the king brushes her off coldly.
Outside the tents, his general brings bad news: nearly half their solders (and horses) are gone. Mercenaries aren’t known for their loyalty. Before they have time to deal with that news, another guy brings more shit news: Stannis’s wife Selyse has hung herself from a tree, presumably out of remorse for roasting their daughter.
The general tells Stannis then that Melisandre has just been seen riding out of camp. Taking this as a sign, Stannis decides to march for Winterfell regardless of their current condition.
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At Castle Black, Jon relates the events of Hardhome to Sam and they assess the situation: the dragonglass is back up north and they don’t have nearly enough Valyrian steel to fight off the White Walkers. Sam asks Jon to be sent to Oldtown to become a maester, since the Night Watch’s maester is now dead and Sam’s not much to the Watch presently. He can also save Gilly and the baby by taking them away from the Wall. Jon reluctantly gives his permission, and figures out that his best friend has gotten laid recently.
Stannis’s grim march reaches Winterfell territory. Inside the castle, Sansa uses the corkscrew she stole to pick the lock on her door and makes her way to the Broken Tower. Just outside the walls of Winterfell, Brienne and Pod wait for a signal. The young man spies the soldiers marching toward the castle and alerts Brienne, who abandons her post…just before Sansa finally lights the candle in the tower. Dammit!
Stannis and his men arrive, only to find the Boltons were prepared for them. With overwhelming numbers, the Boltons soldiers ride out to face them. Knowing its futile, Stannis draws his sword and readies himself to fight.
In the forest, after the slaughter, Stannis staggers through the trees as two Bolton men finish off the wounded Baratheon men. They come after Stannis, and it’s strange- despite what Stannis did to his daughter last week, I’m rooting for him to cut these guys in half. Because Stannis Baratheon should not die at the hands of two chumps. He deserves to die at the hands of a boss, a strong death.
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The soldiers fight and wound Stannis further, but he wins, taking down both men and collapsing against a tree…until Brienne finds him.
This is the meeting we’ve been waiting for. She tells him who she is, reminds him of the blood magic he used to kill his brother, and he owns it. She draws Oathkeeper, and in the name of her king Renly sentences him to die. He tells her to do her duty, and Oathkeeper falls.
In a field nearby, Ramsay finishes a wounded enemy before heading back to Winterfell.
Her candle-lighting request for assistance a failure, Sansa hurries from the tower and runs into of Myranda and Reek. Ramsay’s weirdo torture girlfriend teases and threatens to hurt Sansa with her bow and arrows until Reek snaps and shoves the woman over the railing, killing her.
With Ramsay about to ride into the castle courtyard, Reek and Sansa make their escape hand-in-hand with a leap of faith, jumping off the walls of Winterfell.
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In a Braavos brothel, Meryn Trant menaces a trio of young girls before choosing the one who can take an extraordinary amount of pain. He punches her and she falls to the ground. She pulls her face off, and reveals her true one- Arya. Meryn’s eyes widen in shock for seconds before Arya gouges them out. She stabs him repeatedly, and reminds him of killing Syrio. She takes her time killing him, stabbing him again and reaffirming, she’s Arya Stark. And he is No-One. She slits his throat, and returns to the House of Black and White.
Jaqen and the Waif confront Arya in the Hall of Faces as she returns the young girl’s face she borrowed. A debt is owed because Arya took a life that wasn’t supposed to be taken- so Jaqen drinks poison and falls to the ground dead. Arya screams and cries, until another Jaqen steps forward. Arya pulls the face from the dead man, and sees an unfamiliar face. He is No-One, and Arya needs to learn that lesson.
She was still Someone when she took a face from the Hall, and to Someone, the faces are as good as poison, Jaqen explains.
She pulls face after face from the dead man, until at the bottom she sees her own face. Everything goes blurry, and Arya cries out.
She’s gone blind.
On the docks in Dorne, Jaime, Trystane and Myrcella say goodbye. Ellaria bids farewell to the princess with an inappropriately lingering kiss. Bronn hits on Tyene one last time; Tyene hits back harder.
Jaime and Myrcella chat on board- she wants her mom to like her boyfriend, while Jaime works up the courage to tell his niece that he’s also her dad. She cuts through his rambling bull, and reveals that she knows about him and Cersei, and is happy he’s her father. It’s really sweet, with her hugging him, and Jaime finally getting to be a parent to one of his children. It’s wonderful until blood starts to pour from her nose.
The kiss from Ellaria wasn’t just her being a creeper. Myrcella’s been poisoned. She collapses in her father’s arms.
On the docks, Ellaria’s nose starts to drip blood. Unworried, she takes an antidote from her necklace. She departs, with the Sand Snakes trailing after her.
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Meereen’s Worst Boyband hangs out in Dany’s pyramid trying to figure out what to do with their lives since their queen flew off without looking back. The still-bandaged Grey Worm returns on Missandei’s arm, to meet Tyrion and learn of Jorah’s return. The boys sort out their plan and assess Tyrion’s abilities (“So mainly you talk?”) before deciding Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missandei will stay in Meereen to rule the city while Jorah and Daario will ride out to search.
On one of Meereen’s many thinking-porches, Tyrion is joined by a surprising guest- Varys! He found his way to Dany and Tyrion, naturally and he’s going to help Tyrion rule the city, since he does have experience.
We see the queen herself now, in the middle of fuck-all-nowhere, in a grassy field. Drogon’s made himself a comfortable napping spot on a pile of charred bones, and isn’t cooperative about Daenerys’s need to return to Meereen. Hungry Dany goes off hunting for a bit of food, and hears a horse rider. Over the hill comes a Dothraki rider…and then another. And then some more. And then she’s in the middle of an entire khalasar, thousands of unfamiliar warriors.
Oh boy. Probably not good.
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In King’s Landing, Cersei’s situation in unchanged, down to the same septa repetitively asking her to confess. Only this time, Cersei relents and goes before the High Sparrow. She kneels and confesses…to some things. Lancel, sure. Jaime, no fucking way. The High Sparrow doesn’t totally buy it but he’s willing to let her at least leave custody if she completes an act of atonement.
Stripped, scrubbed and shorn of her hair, Cersei is forced to walk nude through the streets of King’s Landing from the sept back to the Red Keep. The Faith Militant guard her from being manhandled, perhaps, but humiliation is still heaped upon her, with refuse thrown at her. She’s spit on, screamed at and mocked. In the beginning, she holds herself much as she always does, shoulders squared and head up. The Walk wears on her, though, the weight of their hatred ripping into her and the tears flow. By the end, Cersei’s feet bleed from walking on the rough ground, and she’s stumbling.
She reaches the doors of the Red Keep, and says nothing. She weeps and hurries inside to find Qyburn, Pycelle and her uncle Kevan waiting for her.
The newest member of the Kingsguard, an unusually tall and silent knight (book readers, commence cackling in glee or declaring GET HYPE, whatever you fancy), carries Cersei upstairs to have her wounds examined by Qyburn.
At the Wall, Davos has found a new leader to pester. Jon Snow isn’t giving in, either. Their argument is interrupted by Melisandre’s arrival. She’s oddly silent and not herself. Davos sees the trouble in her and asks after Stannis and Shireen; the priestess tellingly says nothing.
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At work in his office, Jon is interrupted by Olly, telling him that a wildling has brought incredible news: that he’s heard rumors that Benjen Stark was seen at Hardhome and he knows where to find him. Jon sees Thorne in the courtyard, who confirms this awesome-super-cool news and directs Jon to where to find the man with the information. Jon rushes over the spot, only to find a sign that reads “TRAITOR.”
Jon is surprised. He processes the sign. He turns around- as Alliser Thorne steps up and stabs him in the gut.
“For the Watch,” he says.
Othell Yarwyck, Bowen Marsh, others take their stab at Jon. “For the Watch.”
In the end, Olly joins them. Jon looks up at the boy, his eyes pleading. “Olly.”
The boy looks saddened and conflicted for a heartbeat. But then his blade stabs into Jon as well. “For the Watch.”
Jon falls.
Eyes staring up sightlessly, Jon’s blood flows from him into the snow.
Thoughts
With the season ended, I don’t particularly feel the need to nitpick. I’ve said enough about the Dorne story not being that strong. At this point, I just want to appreciate the fact that that Game of Thrones is so well-made, engrossing and packed with an incredibly talented cast, from the stars down to the minor roles. In terms of quality, the show can only be compared to itself, and I love it. It’s always transporting, and full of passion. If it didn’t inspire passion in viewers, then we wouldn’t spend so much time debating it and occasionally complaining. There is nothing else like it on television, and I’m happy to have the show. The finale tonight was powerful and enjoyable, and I’m looking forward to next year already!
Hodor
Hodor!
Edit: Err… Hot Pie!
Anywho, not how I expected that to go down. I’m genuinely surprised there was no resurrection, but let’s be real, there’s no way Mel doesn’t do her magic after she and her horse teleported to the Wall.
Jon plllllease come back!!!!
Brace yourselves, curtain calls are coming.
Dorne, Dorne, Dorne. what a mess! i was still rooting for you. we were all rooting for you. How dare you?
GET
HYPE
Awesome recap, Sue. Keep up the good work!
Happy with the season, even if it wasn’t as strong as S3 or S4, but then again -those had Storm of Swords as the source material. Holy cliffhangers, Batman.
The last 20 minutes were amazing. Very good TV, really intense and powerful.
Why HBO didn’t show Brienne killing Stannis? On TV all the major deaths are shown on screen, and I know that Benioff and Weiss hate him and don’t understand the characters of the novels (remember the infamous
“Needle means revenge for Arya”
compared to
“Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell’s grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan’s stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow’s smile.”)
but even hating him and not understanding at all his character, I still don’t get it.
Did they keep him alive? It’s absurd, even more after he has lost his daughter, his wife, his witch, his army and his humanity
The biggest plot twist was that Arya’s scene was the best. Wow, Maisie.
Loved that finale – pretty much like the books, lots of cliffhangers. Now our watch begins (for S6).
Oh also props to Lena. She was Emmy worthy this season!
Great recap, Sue. I think the episode was phenomenal. On Dorne, I don’t think it was as bad as people say. If these scenes were on ep 9 and Doran punishing Ellaria and giving his speech to the SS was on the finale it would have been much better. On a sidenote: Did you guys notice the amazing dornish costumes? Even Obara looked great. What a shame Michele Clapton left the show, her work has always been so wonderful. Now, of to the off-season speculation we go! This season has gone by so fast.
Maybe she didn’t kill him?
They played us with the memory of Benjen. I was hoping for some kind of news about him before FTW happens. What a tease!
Was keeping a sharp lookout for Warg eyes from Jon right at the end
D&D might be skipping the whole Jon0in-Ghist adventure
Wasn’t expecting Melisandre to return to the Wall either though so….best bit is that this would mean Jon Snows Night’s Watch “vows for life” are null and void, and he’ll have Davos to help him!
Between JS and Dany there’s obviously a real “back to season 1” vibe and both characters will “begin again”.
Fully expect Khaleesi Dany to go Fire=Blood Targ on everyone at the head of a Khalesar-no more cringeworthy speeches!
And Jon Snow, well, is now free to win glory, wear crowns etc etc etc and of course he already has every wildling he saved at Hardhome now South of the Wall will be willing to follow him- First stop: Winterfell, here’s hoping to see Wun Wun rip Ramsay Snow apart!
I’m excited!
What was Daenerys’ ring that she took off? A dothraki marry ring? Why had she done this? By having it the Khalassar would know that she is a Khalessi and would send her back to Vaes Dothrak, instead of possibly raping her.
Shoutouts in order…
1. The clowns who thought (hoped?) they were cutting Arya out.
2. The mouthbreathers whining about the nudity of the walk.
3. The liar who sourced his fake friend about the 30 second walk.
I thought the Robert Strong thing was fine, what was wrong with it?
I didn’t loooove the Dorne stuff, BUT given what the show has done with it I do think that’s about as good as they could’ve done. No issues with Dorne (this episode).
What an episode. Please don’t be totally dead Jon! Sigh
hexonx,
Inside the Episode says he’s dead, fwiw.
Yep, no warg eyes either!
Showrunners really know how to tease the bookreaders right as we reach the same spot, I guess those spoiler tags are virtually redundant
Bergey,
Good point. There’s no way she could of made it back to the wall from winterfell that fast.
Lord sand,
Not sure what the ring was in itself, but she dropped it probably so Jorah and Daario can find her.
Can you believe For The Watch is no longer a spoiler?
A lot of great scenes but you may be right. I got the biggest lump in my throat this episode when Arya revealed herself to Trant.
Interesting. Makes you wonder why they didn’t show it then. We deserved to see his death at the hands of Brienne. 🙁
Lord sand,
In the HBO Inside the Episode D&D mentioned it was a cookie crumb for someone to know she was there.
Lord sand,
it was her mother’s ring and she dropped it so others who try to find her may know where to look for her…a breadcrumb she is leaving for jorah and darrio
i have to say i love Stephan Dillane ..God he was amazing and brilliant these last two episodes and has been this whole season …
Yeah the Benjen bit was a huge trolling at first, but I figured it out the moment Olly came rushing in talking about it. I guess since they couldn’t shock book readers about Jon’s death they decided to throw a curveball about Benjen at us instead. Well played.
Am I seeing things or is Qyburn one of the faces in “Jaqen’s” face-ripping sequence? If it was, doesn’t that mean that he’s associated with the FM?
I’m beginning to feel sorry I got sucked into this series. I feel like i’m being jerked around and the only time I like that is when there’s a satisfying ending. I had no idea this series was so unfinished. Lazy fatass seems to be milking the cow for all it’s worth.
Far as i’m concerned Jon is dead, the Wall storyline is closed. Stannis is dead and his storyline closed. Dorne is closed, was a waste of time. Theon and Sansa accomplished nothing except pain and/or death from what looked like 50ft.
Its one thing to be cliffhanged by the shorts, another to be jerked around by sloppy cheap and weak writing devices. I think I might just tune out until everything is wrapped up. If that lazyass writer’s history is any indication I might live long enough. But thats how much I really really hate being jerked along.
In the books the khalasar knew who she was if I remember correctly.
This was my first season checking out Game of Thrones websites during the entire season. It will also be my last. The GoT online community:
1) Over react to each episode (think Sansa/Ramsey)
2) Are overly critical of the showrunners.
3) Complain if anything isn’t directly from the books, no matter how silly it is.
4) Generally don’t seem to enjoy the show. They just want to complain about it.
I think these websites took away some of the enjoyment of the show for me this season. Kind of sad. It would be nice to have a place to discuss the show online. Guess that just isn’t possible.
Back in season 1 the white walkers arranged the corpses in a pattern that was the same as the pyre Dany walks in to hatch the dragons.
In season 3 they arranged the horse heads at the Fist of the First Men into a spiral. It sort of looked like the shot of the people crowding around Dany at the end of Mhysa but it was a bit of a stretch. It was actually the Dothraki swirling around her here! That took a long time to pay off.
LOL I just read about the leak from the other day. I’m sure everyone who saw it before the episode expected something different!
Lionthing,
They didn’t say “yeah, he’s dead, not coming back”. They only commented about how Stannis isn’t going to leave the world whimpering. Also, no interviews with Stephen Dillane saying he’s done with the show, like it happened with Ciaran Hinds, Ian McElhinney, etc. – why?
Good: Stannis and brienne meeting. I loved it all.
Bad: brienne (and the entire north by extension) being completely useless re: sansa. Wtf.
Good: jon getting actually stabbed so he’ll have to be resurrected (there is a fan theory that he didn’t really get stabbed which is IMO silly).
Bad: why no triumphant moment first? I really wanted jon to say he was gonna go save sansa… Only to get punkd.
Good: everything mereen. drogon so awesome. Dany w dothraki = awesome. Tyrion/Jorah/GW/Daario/missandei/Varys what’s not to like?
Good: WoS. Cersei is going to burn you all… Btw I really love Qyburn you guys he is my new fave.
Bad: everything Dorne. Jaime still loves Cersei, no movement for his character whatsoever. Why even send him? And SS/elaria are unexplainably terrible and stupid humans. IDGI.
Good: I actually love how mel crawls back to the wall like a coward. What a PoS. ITs all your fault, plz die.
Bad: sansa fully damseled in the end. She unlocks her door, lights a candle, wanders around awhile then theon saves the day. show runners have victimized sansa to “redeem” their fave Theon, it’s as we feared from the start.
Great performance by Lena, BTW. The walk was very powerful.
So she’s dropping a tiny ring in the grass somewhere in Essos. And Jorah and Daario will find it. If this wasn’t TV it would have about a 0,00% chance of working out.
I almost screamed when Jaqen keeled over. And I almost cried for Jaime. Damn.
Dorne and Sansa – biggest bores of the year. Alfie Allen saved the Winterfell storyline. Hope he didn’t break everything in that fall.
Brienne has a bad habit of having her enemies ‘die’ offscreen.
Loved it! So many deaths in one episode… but maybe
– Stannis isn’t dead? (if we dont see it, it never really happened)
– Trystanne had an antidote necklace as well?
– And we all ‘know’ Jon Snow always comes back…
Time to get back on the Wall and watch.
Keep us informed, with no WoW to read, we will be needing all the distractions we can get! Going to miss this as much as the show.
I don’t really get the viewers who keep waiting for Sansa to become some kind of a badass or a master of manipulation. I don’t see anything in her character that would justify her going through that sort of transformation.
Tibatonk,
agree
its just so predictable but i dont know where they are going with this thing now ..
i am not seeing how jorah and darrio is going to help her in vaes dothark ..if anything she must be the one saving them
guess we have to just wait and see come next year
That was an unusual season ender for GoT. Everywhere, there seemed a down note. Dorne – an innocent young girl was killed. Ellaria became as much a monster as the Lannisters that she hates. In KL, Cersei’s (who I hate with a passion) humiliation was so extreme, that as it happened I kept thinking: this city needs to be wiped clean, it’s so completely corrupted. The Sparrows have to be wiped out along with every corruption that there is. There was a strange parallel for me for Meereen and KL this season – the Harpies and the Sparrows are of a similar mind-set.
Stannis: he sacrificed his daughter, and sealed his fate and the total destruction of his house. What a sad ending for this deluded man – wife dead, Mel abandoned him, his army routed. Melissandre herself was so completely off in thinking Stannis was The One all this time! Brienne killing Stannis was the payment for his original sin (killing Renly with a shadow monster).
Theon and Sansa: at least they ended on a renewed sense of hope.
Wall: what happens to Jon now? I can well believe that his body will be iced until a resurrection at some future date. End of Season 6? At least, the Wildings are now south of the Wall, and they are faithful to him. He has a part to play yet.
Braavos: Arya took her revenge, and became blind. What now? Will she go back to Westeros, since she is still a Stark?
Meereen: the most hopeful of all storylines, with Tyrion and Varys (a big surprise for me) setting up to bring Slaver’s Bay in order.
Daenerys: I am worried about Drogon. Was he so badly hurt at Meereen? The Khalassar surrounding her was a visually awesome scene. What now?
Episode 6.01 has to begin almost immediately in the few minutes after this episode ended.
Deserve you say?
Tell me,did you pay in Iron for that right? It was gold wasn’t it? HA
I have this strange weird feeling Brienne didnt kill Stannis, perhaps it was she saw he lost everything and that was a worse punishment than death, I have no idea how this will play out at all…. FTW was brilliantly done, Arya was fantastic too, the walk was good but too long Lena was amazing though… I think I feel confused…
Kudos to the showrunners for ending Jon Snow’s story that way, just like in the book.
I’m quite shocked that Dany and Drogon were north of Meereen and not in Valyria.
Won’t Jaime want to turn around and kill Ellaria and the Sand Snakes?
The Good:
1. Arya’s story. This was very slow for much of the season, but I though the payoff was great. For a while I was expecting the blindness was out, since I thought they’d want to get into Arya’s TWOW story immediately, but it was an effective ending.
2. Cersei’s story: Well-done (some of the CGI on the body double was a bit dubious, but whatever). I find it really interesting how the King’s Landing story since episode 7 has been told solely from Cersei’s POV. That really adds to the effectiveness of her isolation and getting out.
3. Meereen: Nothing hugely exciting, but competent setup for next year (Daario spelling out who everybody is what their roles will be was kind of TV-ish, but hey, it’s TV).
4. Dany: Much like the above, fine.
The Bad:
1. Jon’s story was hands-down the best part of this season for 9 episodes out of 10. And then in the tenth, the handling of “For the Watch” was just weird, and makes Thorne’s letting Jon through the Wall last episode make no sense.
2. Sansa’s plot is now confirmed to be a complete waste of any character development she was supposed to have had last season; and Theon’s turn was totally rushed (given how much D&D love Alfie, I’ve been amazed at the way they’ve underserved the character this year).
3. The resolution to Stannis’ plot was just terrible, even on a filming level (Stannis is at the head of a bunch of infantry being surrounded by cavalry, which somehow transitions to him alone in the middle of a forest so that Brienne can appear and kill a wounded man?).
4. Dorne. All that can be said is: LOL.
Interesting.There is always possibility “what if”.Jon story would feel like pointless.His parentage,white walkers,wildlings and other things.
http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/kit-harington-couldnt-wait-for-you-to-find-out.html
A non-reader would have to have the attention span of a goldfish not to understand that the silent giant is the Mountain, what with the “previously” clip and the scenes of Qyburn at his lab. At least if we had gotten a scene or mention of Qyburn experimenting on someone else there would be a little bit of mystery.
Lord sand
Lord sand:
What was Daenerys’ ring that she took off? A dothraki marry ring? Why had she done this? By having it the Khalassar would know that she is a Khalessi and would send her back to Vaes Dothrak, instead of possibly raping her.
SANSA’S KNIGHT
I don’t think that’s her dothraki ring . It’s probably the engagement ring Hizdhar wud have given her or something she picked up in mereen as queen . She gets rid of it (and this is why I think it was an engagement ring) so the Dothraki see her as Khal Drogos wife aka former Khaleesi and not some mereenese queen
SORRY THE SITE IS BEHAVING WEIRD TODAY WITH MY REPLIES
“I’ve been worrying about Jon for years. He always comes back.”
From your lips to god’s ears, Samwell Tarly. Keep the faith!
Particularly true for Dorne. Sure it wasn’t the best storyline. But the most annoying thing about it certainly was the constant and ever repetitive bitching online.
Tibatonk,
I was just thinking about this. It’s not quite that obscured. First, Jorah and Daario can follow the trail of stories about that big black fookin dragon that flew that away. Then they can find Drogon’s leftovers. Then below that, a valley where all of these horse riders were, and where they all circled around again and again. Then in the center of the circle, a place with no hoofprints and the ring. Then they follow the horse tracks.
Anyway, that’s how it could happen. They will likely stumble across the ring while measuring the lengths of their middle fingers along the way.
really hating Ellaria Sand right now. and The watch. Fuck all of them, Olly included, dumb fucks. And Ellaria… So dumb… Hurting innocent people, shes worse than the Lannisters she hates, and shame on the sand snakes for supporting such bullshit. I hope Doran kills them all. They are cold heartless bitches taking out vengeance on those who had nothing to do with it. So fucked up. So wrong.
I hope melisandre brings Jon back and he kills all of them Watch-holes
Well that was a fucking massacre.
I’m not usually this guy, but the episode left me… cold. But not in that way. It was an amazingly written and produced hour of television… but fuck, it was so grim-dark that I can’t process it all. I’ll need to rewatch it a few times in order to really enjoy it.
The only parts that I was able to enjoy uncomplicatedly, probably because they didn’t involved relentless death, was Meereen and the Dothraki Sea, and Arya… which DID involve death and a terrifying cliffhanger, but still. Fuck Meryn Fucking Trant, right?
I still can’t process it all. Stannis went out rather well. A fine ending. That his last words, to his executioner, are “Do your duty” is really quite fitting for the character.
I really wanted for Jaime to admit to being Myrcella’s father. It was even better, since she already knew and actually was happy about it… and then she died. Fuck.
I just need to sleep on this.
How can JS be ACTUALLY dead. I’m sorry but if that’s the case then this show just ground-dived. His parentage? Not relevant?
no one was hoping for that.
What we were hoping for was for her to have the opportunity to be something other than a victim. There’s a lot of space between sits In a room getting raped all season and “master manipulator”.
For example, the way I thought it would go is something like:
Roose pressures RAMSEY into leaving sansa relatively unspoiled, because he needs her to appear OK. Roose then brings her to meetings with northern lords to demonstrate that in fact he does have the Neds little girl and so they better behave. Meanwhile, sansa does a little behind the scenes communicating with some of the northern contingent to prepare ultimately to turn on the Boltons.
On that note, where the F is Littlefinger?
their going to kill of every stark until they lose all their major fanbase, the only characters with decency and and that the viewers can relate to their killing off??
you would think that john wouldve been the main challenger versus night’s king, i mean he MET the guy man. so who the hell is going to b the hero??? thats like killing the dwarf (which would implode the show btw). anyways if Snow is really dead, im done, im sick of following the twists and turns of the stark family who are basically every story in the show (minus kings landing and Meereen) just to watch them die one by one. Its Boring!!!
He would, but his ship is captured by Euron Greyjoy and he spends Season 6 introducing the Iron Islands plot.
Yes, I know that we are supposed to be a little creeped out at Arya’s vengeance – but I don’t care. It was cathartic. I loved every moment of it.
For Season 6: Theon and Sansa are hunted and soon found by Ramsay. Ramsay is found by Podrick Payne. I like Pod’s chances!
That still leaves us with Roose Bolton – but it also leaves us with Lord Petyr Baelish and the Knights of the Vale – who are on the way. Given the number of Bolton dead on the grounds around Winterfell I like Littlefinger’s chances, too. And with Littlefinger in Winterfell, I especially like Sansa’s chances of returning to the castle with style. That one should have a nice little kick at the end.
GRRM didn’t ask D&D about Jon Snow’s mother at a 5 hour luncheon that neither of them have ever answered — because SURPRISE it didn’t matter anyway. Relax people.
And the Benjen bit in the “Previously on Game of Thrones” intro was a brilliant serving of misdirection.
Stannis noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they insist on keeping with the ‘Everyone Save Sansa’ theme, I doubt Stannis is dead. He tells Brienne to do her duty, she thinks “Shit! Forgot about Sansa…”, hacks something in frustration, enlists him to help, then…uh….they have no army, so…..shit. Well my thought started out good….
Tibatonk,
I’m not saying the chances are good, but 0,00%? Nah… They will follow Drogon (Jorah being of noble borth has surely learned to hunt an animal). The chances of finding the ring are still not very high (unless of course Drogon is too hurt to leave for a while), but what they could find pretty easy are rumors/talk of a woman with noble clothes andwhite hair being captured by a bunch of Dothraki once they find the right area.
Geralt of Rivia,
Not listening….
Selyse dies……..figured as much
Stannis dies……..finally and he deserved it just because he was stupid
Jaime happy……yay for a present on Father’s Day
Myrcella dies……..no present for Jaime
Myranda dies……..Reek finally grew a pair……so to speak
Cersei walks……all the way home…..
Robert Strong………yeah right, nobody knows he’s the Mountain…..
Melisandre back at Castle Black…….faint clock chimes and organ notes
Varys returns……..WTF??? Hope he explains himself…….
Tyrion gets a throne…….Cersei would choke on soup if she knew
Drogon, Dany and Dothraki=Khaleesi
Jon Snow dies……are you out of your fucking HBO minds????????
……..and where the hell is that freaking wolf???? The big white one that was gnawing on a bone in the courtyard of Castle Black episode 1???
Azor Ahai??? The Prince Who Was Promised? The Song of Ice and Fire?
Lightbringer=Longclaw?
………and Gilly’s baby is lacking growth hormones because he’s been the same size for a year…..is anybody feeding that kid?
Winter may be coming but it is a long way off…….
Joseph Nobles,
Abyss,
Wouldn’t really need the ring then, though. They could simply follow the horse tracks once they found the area, couldn’t they?
Stannis didn’t die, right? I mean, I think that I would hate him for what he did to Shireen, but… I don’t want he dies just like this… We didn’t see his dead body. Brienne will heal his wounds and he will be lead to a northern lord next season… PLEASE!!!!
Poor Myrcella.
Varys in Meereen? Do you think that he is the master mind behind the Sons of the Harpy? Does he need that Dany stop herself ruling the Slaver’s Bay?
We are all now in the same ship!!! We are all unsullied!!!
Can’t wait!!!!
I agree! Having watched twice already, I also think it was extremely well-written, and terribly, terribly dark! I mean the only hopeful things were Sansa and Teon dropping off from a huge height and Tyrion and Varys. Generally GoT seasons end on a hopeful note, but this is like they say: darkest before dawn.
RabidXdog,
sorry and with all due respect man..
FUCK STANNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m sad tonight. The season is over, my favorite character was stabbed like Julius Caesar. I knew it was coming, as I read the books, but still not an easy thing to watch at all, specially since I read the books because Jon Snow’s and Arya’s farewell back in season 1 made me care for them.
I did not like the twist in the book, but I could understand it as he was talking of his idea about how imminent the danger was. In the show, however, his death made even less sense in my opinion, specially after Hardhome (couldn’t any of the NW guys who went with him open their big mouths and confirm that he had been right all along?)…
But I’m particularly sad that in the midst of everything, we did not get to see how cool Jon was. He was not just a warrior. He had far more agency than the series showed. We did not get to see how he negotiated with the Iron Bank, nor the steps he took to restore and “man” many of the castles.
On top of that, I got spoiled twice about Jon’s demise (first while reading the books – that time I stupidly checked one of the sites and there it was-duh!; but this time around I was not looking for anything related to GoT, and the final scene screencap just appeared in my computer on Thursday… I was so pissed.
Anyway, as sad and mad as I was for all this, I really enjoyed this season. I felt it just went so fast… I do not agree with the criticism that it was slow or poorly conceived. I believe D&D did an amazing job adapting two really complicated books. As for Dorne I did not mind that much. The only character I care for there is Doran. The rest I saw as an intermezzo for the rest of the stories.
So, I will patiently wait for next season. I’ll just need some time to mourn and recover…
It’s going to be a rough few weeks dealing with the Kit Harrington and D&D interviews stating he is finished with the show. I literally refuse to believe it. I’ll feel like I’ve wasted nearly a decade of my life with this series if Jon’s story is finished. I just hope D&D aren’t pulling another LS with Jon. You showed Beric and the ability of Rh’llor to resurrect. Quit acting like that never happened. It’s okay to go there.
And – by the way. There ARE no “spoilers” anymore folks.
There are THEORIES, sure, but unless The Winds of Winter is released before April 2016, the sullied/unsullied divide is now at an end.
Next year, we can all watch and post in terror, together.
How am I going to survive now that Jon Snow is dead? I can’t go on!! Why, why, why? I read the books, so I knew it was going to happen. But I wasn’t ready!!! *sobbing uncontrollably*
I don’t believe it for a second.
But it seems like we’re in for potentially months of the fandom arguing over whether Jon is dead for realz or not.
I’m thinking they really should have burned all those corpses around Winterfell. Especially Stannis.
Also, they hardly did anything with Myrcella at all. Why the hell did they recast her?
I just watched Episodes 9 & 10 on a huge theatre screen! It was awesome. (The whole theatre cheered when Theon threw Myranda off that ledge, and when Arya first stabbed Trant in the eye).
I thought the finale was pretty amazing. Stannis! Oh man… I didn’t think he’d attack Winterfell until next year, and definitely didn’t expect him to die so soon! I felt bad for him, losing everything… until I remembered it’s his own fault and he deserved it. And I thought his execution by Brienne was pretty fitting. Still sad to see him go, I’ll particularly miss Stephen Dillane who was one of my favourite actors in the show.
Cersei’s walk was really well done, and very close to the book! Lena Headey really killed it. I was impressed. And I loved Ser Robert Strong! (except they didn’t name him).
Arya killing Trant was so graphic, it made me feel sick to my stomach for a few minutes.
Danny, Drogon, and the dothraki was cool. Jon Snow (“For the Watch!”) was well done, but that Benjen trick was so cheap (I’m looking at you, D&D!). For some reason, I’m not very moved by Jon’s death, because as in the books, I just don’t buy that it’s permanent. “He always comes back”. But a few people gasped and yelled “nooo!” in the theatre, heheh.
I enjoyed Season 5 overall, but it was definitely a dark one!
My Top 3 Episodes:
1. Hardhome
2. Mother’s Mercy
3. The Dance of Dragons
Tibatonk,
Maybe true, but it was more of a simbol anyway. It was a way of “showing not telling”. It was Dany “saying” “Somebody please find me, I will survive!” It’s not important wether or not the ring gets actually found.
I think Cersei has finally snapped and will probably wanna burn King’s Landing down. And that Jaime will probably have to repeat what he did to Aerys. And why didn’t Loras have to do a walk of shame? He was accused of sexually deviant acts just like Cersei was.
Tibatonk,
The ring is a guarantee they are on the right trail.
That sickens me a lot more than any on-screen rape.
Yeah, they did.
Think about it. At the end of the episode, he’s definitely preaching to the choir invisible.
But I’m gonna bet you a Beric Dondarrion he doesn’t stay that way.
Now, Kit Harington also interviewed Entertainment Weekly, and makes it sound like he’s done. I think it’s possible that he’s not back for Season 6. But I’d be floored if they’re not playing us at least a bit.
I think Kit and D&D are playing us. But they may leave us hanging for a while.
Lex,
Yeah, Cersei’s walk was exactly like the book, especially with her focusing on the Red Keep while she walked. I like how you can almost hear her inner dialogue from the book as she’s walking, slowly breaking down as she reached her destination. I genuinely felt bad for her.
Did the Iron Throne even make an appearance this season?
Also, the ending oddly makes me hopeful that The Winds of Winter will come out this year, or early next. But I should probably know better…
Sean C.,
And Kit now says he will keep his hair fairly long, but he will just shave his face. Unless he goes full on buzz cut, I will not believe he is finished. It probably takes him a month or so to grow his scruff. I think Jon may sit out most of season 6, but he will return near the end. If he is only in a scene or two, it will be easy to conceal his appearance.
Dragon Tender,
I was talking about Stannis, silly! I know Jon’s not dead, he’s one of the heroes.
Of course, there will be general shock and dismay when Aragorn and Legolas find it. Possibly followed by Tyrion.
So the season is over… Time for rankings!
Ranking the Seasons: Season 4 > Season 1 > Season 5 > Season 3 > Season2.
Ranking Season 5 storylines: The Wall > Winterfell > King’s Landing > Meereen > Braavos > Dorne.
Top 5 Season 5 episodes: Hardhome > Mother’s Mercy > The Dance of Dragons > The Gift > High Sparrow.
Top 10 episodes ever (in no order): Baelor, Fire and Blood, Blackwater, And Now His Watch Is Ended, Kissed by Fire, The Rains of Castamere, The Lion and The Rose, The Watchers on The Wall, The Children, Hardhome.
Lionthing,
As hard as D&D and Kit are trying to sell this, it doesn’t look like any of us are buying it, eh?
I’m curious if George will publish Winds of Winter before the next season starts, thereby “spoiling” the show.
Will be upset if the obligatory acting Emmy nom goes to Dinklage (not that I don’t love him). But Lena and Kit had stronger seasons. They need a nom this time around.
Stannis is Alive.. i repeat Stannis is alive..
We never did see that shot of Margaery hugging Tommen’s waist, did we?
Sword of the Morning,
I don’t recall ever seeing anyone in the throne room at all, much less catch a glimpse of the Iron Throne. Dang!
I don’t think Stannis is really dead, They would have shown it.
This.
I’m not worried. Jon’s not gone for good.
I don’t know why I was so disappointed in Alliser Thorne partaking in FTW. Dude! I was in denial, thinking he of the harsh but astute words wasn’t going to be a part of the ides of Bowen Marsh. That jarred me. Brutal episode.
SteelWind,
There are and there aren’t. We know some Greyjoy stuff, Davos stuff, and probably a couple of other (minor) things.
Agreed completely.
I am still so certain that he will be resurrected. There was never a tiny shadow of doubt until these interviews. He is the heir, he is TPTWP/AA/the song of ice and fire. The only way I can imagine him not coming back in the show is if he does come back in the books but D&D decide to give his role to Dany and Bran. But I think Mel showing up at the Wall tonight is of massive significance.
I have NEVER been any kind of book purist/”im done with this show” poster, but if Jon is done I am done, and that won’t make up for the time I spent thinking that this story was important to me. Jon is the story, to me. Without him, Id say I hope the WW kill everyone if I cared enough to hope anything for the other characters. What a horrible, horrible unfinished mess this story will have been if they off him permanently, disregarding all of his significance and the building of 5 books.
That being said, I do believe he will come back, but we may have to wait two years, in which case I am sitting out season 6. I know people always say they’re done and arent, but there is nothing else holding a spark of interest for me and the writing will have been a joke! It just gets too depressing watching a story where the main hero is dead and didn’t serve a purpose, especially when it means you had faith in some terrible storytellers!
Rygritte,
I don’t recall the scenes with Harpies running through the streets of a burning Mereen either. Guess they got cut.
Dude,
We are gonna have to wait a year to find out if Stannis really died
3 things bugged me about FTW (aside from the obvious):
1. Ghost? They’ve really screwed the pooch with the lack of the direwolves’ importance through the seasons…well, since Grey Wind, really.
2. I had hoped Alliser wouldn’t go full asshole. There were a few nice moments this season where he was only borderline asshole.
3. ‘Traitor’ on a piece of wood? Pfffft.
What I was relieved by – that Edd wasn’t part of it.
Applause
As if we haven’t been arguing about it since June 2011! 🙂
Jesus, just read an interview from Kit and he says “Jon is dead”. He’s had the talk with Dan and David, the big send-off party, ” a bit of a cry” and that’s all folks. Says he’ll keep his hair long for other roles-takes too long to grow it out but will shave the beard. I don’t think so………
The one thing Kit ALWAYS said he would do when he was done with Thrones would be to cut his hair back short again. Other roles my ass.
See you next April-how the hell are they going to keep his scenes secret??????
Was it supposed to be a mystery? I understood immediately that it was FrankenGregor when reading the book and I’m pretty sure most people did too.
Stop it. It was made clear that she killed him. I knew before the scene ended that they will cut to the next scene when Brienne will throw the sword to kill stannis. And not because they want to end on a cliffhanger, but because it was unnecessary/tasteless to show it until the very end. This is what most of the movies are doing too. Of course lots of idiots will debate it until season 6 release.
Cut footage is used in trailers all the time. Remember the “its like I woke up and the whole worlds fallen apart” Jon line from the s4 trailer?
They made a point of Mel returning to the wall, and also made a point of leaving in the Beric Dondarrion plot even though they weren’t planning on paying it off with LSH.
Jon being permanently dead would be incredibly frustrating even for this storyline. I mean can you imagine the scenes if WoW comes out and all the stuff about Jon’s parentage and possible role as AA was completely meaningless?
On the other hand given that the show can’t even stop an episode leaking out I doubt they would be able to keep the fact that Kitt Harrington is filming for S6 in a couple of months time a secret so it makes no sense for him to lie now…
If Jon is dead or at least gone for a season. What will Mel, Davos, Tormund, Wun Wun, et al, be getting up to, I wonder? Mel said she would be in Winterfell. How long can that wait til? There’s only a couple of seasons left.
I think this was the first episode of the whole series I disliked. I’ll explain myself later as I am on my phone.
Anyway, what a wonderful ride. Let the “speculation and sneaky on set pictures” season begin!!
JohnLocke,
Not really. Season 6 will start its shooting in about two months. If Kit is back (and I’m sure he is), there’s no way in hell they will be able to hide it from people. Relax.
I agree, especially Lena. Stephen Dillane as well, his performance in this last episode sent chills down my spine. He loses everything in the span of a few minutes and figures that he might as well fight even if he’s doomed, anyway. Is this what’s gonna happen to him in the books? Now were gonna be asking these types of questions from now on haha.
I’ll stick around, but I think this is legit.
JohnLocke,
No we won’t. He’s listed as dead (as much as it causes me anguish) in the viewers guide as dead and the viewers guide does not lie about that. And before someone brings up Jon being listed as murdered. It is because he was kill and he’ll of course be raised from the dead by Mel.
Davos’ Luck,
I was talking About Stannis not Jon
Must have been cut from another scene. I wonder if Marg got to confess and atone as well?
richardhorpe,
Idk, i have doubts, why would they not show him dying?
I thought he was dead when I watched, but now not so much, I think they would have shown it. Also, if anyone were to show mercy, it would be Brienne. I think when he owned the blood magic and said his “do your duty bit” she had a moment. Maybe not.
The cheering for Theon was great. Cheering for Arya only lasted a second or two, then everyone got freaked out.
Meanwhile, over in Mereen:
– Tyrion needs more wine for this shit.
– Jorah and Daario embark on the most passive-aggressive road trip ever. Daario continues bragging about his time as a top-notch fighter in the pits. Jorah regularly fantasizes about giving him a noogie with his left arm.
– Varys and Grey Worm bond over their shared anatomical deficiencies.
First time watching Jon’s death, it was shock and I dont know it didnt hit me even though I knew it was going to happen. I watched again and it was horrible, sad, and depressing.
well, the Dorne storyline was a waste of time. Oh great, we’re gonna start another war now between kingdoms…..yay. Reduced the Sand Snakes to sex objects. Jamie gets to admit that he’s Myrcella’s dad and she just says “well I sorta always knew, and I’m totally ok with it” Alexander Sidding was the only good part of this detour, even though they’ve reduced Doran to nothing. His machinations are so much more complex in the novels.
Tyrion being in charge at Mereen is interesting, but would be more so if he had to deal with the Yunkai stuff like in the novels.
Jon can’t really be dead, even if the show were to that wildly diverge from the books, there has been too much set up in the show for him to be done, and Mel arrived just in the nick of time. Kit and D&D are messing with us, or maybe Jon will be ‘dead’ for most of season 6, Mel will work her magic but it’ll take the whole season for him to recover.
Don’t think Stannis is dead either. The way they cut away like that screams misdirection. She swung the sword and planted it in the tree right above his head. Classic tv editing trick.
Hopefully Martin will have Winds out before season 6. I’m thinking January 2016 release.
Rygritte,
That scene was in the episode Loras gets arrested; when she goes to ask him to get Loras released.
Also, Kit is trolling. No one is that damn chipper about their death.
Edit: Also, has anyone considered that GRRM leaves Jon Snow out of book 6? That would kind of correspond to leaving him out of S6 (if that’s what they end up doing).
JohnLocke,
Artistic choice most likely and to lend some last dignity. Nutter also said in an interview that Brienne puts him out of his misery. He has no narrative purpose left in the show, and as I said the viewers guide. I don’t think we need to read into this that the Pink Letter is necessarily true in the books.
In all honesty, this whole Stannis marches on Winterfell story was badly done, They should have made him rally all the northern lords and all that stuff from the book, Seize Deepwood motte.etc and saved the battle for next season..
JohnLocke,
Sorry, mate. My bad.
i f****** hate Olly.. >:(
honeyimhome,
Well, Jon is dead. So Kit and D&D ain’t lyin’ weasels. With a Red Priestess in residence, there’s of course not a chance that he stays that way.
But they are weasels. My bet is that Kit isn’t involved in promotion for S6, may not be in the first couple of episodes, and will shoot most of his scenes in Paint Hall Studios.
So:
1. The body disappears all Jesus-like as of S6-01.
2. A couple of scenes of Alister Thorne dealing with the threat, spread over the first few episodes.
3. The reveal that Mel has Jon squirreled away somewhere, roughly mid-season.
To help pull this off, Kit will of course be doing features for most of the filming season.
It’s a fun gimmick, even if a lot of people will refuse to take the bait.
A great episode all around to conclude another fantastic season for a one-of-a kind show!
Cannot wait for Season Six and what is to come next. There isn’t much I can add that most people haven’t already described and talked about.
Valar Morghulis, Valar Dohaeris and Winter Is Coming!
I think that Stannis actually survived, And that next season he will have learned from his Mistakes and be redeemed, he will do all that stuff from the book, and then the real siege of winterfell will begin.
Maceless Fan,
Agree. Dillane was magnificent. Tonight…man, a king who’s lost his soul.
Damn right. Working with D&D to do it, too.
I see little or no chance of that. The most he’ll do is delay Jon’s come-back until about a third of the way in. Which the show will also do, in its own way.
Tibatonk,
???seriously??? how is that worse than on-screen rape? how is some violent thing happening to those who deserve it worse than sexual violence on somehow whos innocent?
you make me sick, you self righteous biz…natch…
Dragon Tender,
I actually believe Jon will be missing from most of TWOW and perhaps all of season 6. I see this as George’s nod to Tolkien and Gandalf. Jon will return at the end of TWOW/season 6, maybe the beginning of season 7. I actually think they will be able to hide Kit’s involvement if he only has to film 1 or 2 scenes next season.
JTargs,
I agree. This would be the one thing that I’d go mental and consider it no longer appointment TV. If GRRM also kept him dead? To hell with him. It just seems that would be a collosal “psyche!”
Screw that.
Gods I’m going to be irritated if Jon is on ice throughout season 6/Winds of Winter.
A couple of random thoughts.
Was anyone else mildly annoyed that the white raven announcing the arrival of winter wasn’t part of the show? I guess it would make a good opener for season 6 though.
I really loved that awkward silence between Tyrion, Missandei, and Grey Worm after Jorah and Daario left the throne room. I also love “my Valyrian is nostril.” And Arya, when she was wearing a different face reminding me of a blonde version of Sadako/Samara with the way she was standing and the hair in her face. With all the deaths and the big Jontroversy, those little details are getting lost.
So, I don’t mean to be so negative, especially because I LOVED the episode and the season as a whole (Sand Snakes were entirely unnecessary characters, and Sansa’s character development stagnated a bit, but besides that, loved everything.)
But I was just thinking how hard it will be to write next season for D&D… The beginning will probably have to be very slow. Lots of setup and buildup. At the beginning of next season..
– It looks like no more Jon.
– Arya will continue training with the FM..
– Dany will be with the Khalasar… again. It will likely be a while until she, Tyrion, Jorah, Varys, etc. are back in Westeros.
– Sansa and Theon will be wandering and I guess bump into Brienne, and go.. where?
– Euron will be introduced and plunder/rape…
– Sam and Gilly will travel to Oldtown.
– Boltons are still in control at WF.
Maybe it’s just because we don’t have books to tell us what’s coming any more, but it seems to me like the plot will feel a bit stagnant towards the beginning of season 6. They definitely have their work cut out for them.. but maybe I’m underestimating D&D. I’m sure it’ll end up being great and surprising. I guess we’ll plunge into end-game mode fairly quickly if there are only 7 seasons. Either way, very scary/exciting to head into the unknown!
Mostly because of the Jon Snow reveal, I think.
I’d guess we’ll see Dillane talk about it, but he’ll wait a few days until the smoke blown over Kit starts to clear.
I thought I’d be glad about Stannis dying after what happened last week… but I wasn’t really. I felt kinda bad for him in fact. :/
His final words are so fitting and should be famous in this fandom. “Go on and do your duty.” That sums up Stannis’s character about perfectly.
Jon Snowwww!!!! Hope someone ressurects him….
Those three word “For the Watch” will haunt my dreams.
……….another peg in the board for Kit not leaving Thrones- not one other actor has said anything about how they felt about Jon being killed. Nor any producers, directors, writers, etc. Any other cast member who was killed off got immediate kudos as to how wonderful they were to work with and how they would would be missed. How stoopid do they think us fans are???????
Dragon Tender,
Does Dillane even do interviews?
Dragon Tender,
I’m seriously starting to think that the things we “sullied” are “CONFIDENT” of, either won’t actually happen, or don’t ultimately matter. Granted, I’m not one who thinks they could realistically leave Jon out of an entire season/book, but well, I’m learning to not be so confident about anything anymore.
I think its possible that GRRM-and the show-could leave him out of book/season 6 in order to resolve (or in the case of the show, introduce) other storylines and characters. I was wondering how they were going to cram the Greyjoys and the Tarly’s in season 6. I suppose the answer would be to remove (even if temporarily) the entire Wall storyline. That, and the removal of Stannis frees up a lot of time for the reintroduction of Bran (and possibly Rickon) and also, the introduction of Euron and the Tarly’s. Its a possibility.
Has this one been posted yet: http://deadline.com/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-spoilers-season-5-lena-headey-season-6-1201441028/
It was a few years ago that I read this so I don’t have a link, but I did read an interview with GRRM where he said that Jon would find out his parentage. So there’s something to cling to.
Like I said in the other thread, it’s awfully suspicious that D&D and Michelle Fairley kept being coy about LS and refusing to confirm that she’s cut from the show. But now that there’s an ambiguous death everyone is falling all over themselves to make clear that Jon is dead? Doesn’t pass the smell test.
I just hope that if he’s in the ice cells for a while, he makes a surprise guest appearance in the season 6 finale so we don’t have to wait two years to find out for sure.
Ravyn,
I don’t think I’ll be able to sleep long enough to dream. Damn this is rough. I felt the same way after first reading the scene in the books, but I didn’t have GRRM coming out and saying “Jon is dead and gone.” This is going to be a long wait for season 6/TWOW. But you know what? If…no, when Jon rises, it will all be worth it!
robb17,
I wasn’t. Dorne sucked in the books, too.
A couple of other little things that got lost.
Bad: We didn’t get the origin story of Braavos and the FM. That’s pretty disappointing. I hope we hear about it later. Learning about that was one of my favorite parts of AFFC.
Good: Oldtown for season 6 confirmed! I always guessed that the Maesters had an important role in the story. I want to see the dragonglass candle glowing. I want to know the Maester agenda and how it shaped Westeros. With Sam not going south I had feared either that part of the story wasn’t as important as I thought or it was important and they were cutting it anyway. Now we know for sure that it’s in. Yay!
Why did Thorne let Jon through the gate last week if he was gonna kill him this week? Why not leave the gate closed and let Jon die with the wildlings? Instead he lets the wildlings pass and then kills Jon,WTF?!
And snow melting,seriously?! Snow fucking melting! That’s what Shireen’s sacrifice bought him. Sex with Mel produces an undetectable,indestructible shadow assassin,but burning your own daughter gets you snow melting!
Dorne was a complete waste of time and waste of Siddig.
I loved the rest of the season. If not for Dorne it would have been the best season. And now we wait for a year. Hope they improve Dorne next season and learn from their mistakes so they don’t screw up Euron the same way.
Pigeon,
I was thinking maybe she doesn’t kill stannis and instead takes him prisoner as a way to get into winterfell to save sansa.
What i liked :
Arya. Jaqen taking the poison. The other girl being jaqen. The faces. Arya’s face. It became more fantastical than the practical thing we expected when seeing all the faces in the batcave. But yeah. Nice.
Tyrion and Varys back together ready for one season in Meeren but a good one. Daario is planning on killing Jorah isn’t he?
The walk was nice. Well interpreted by Lena. The FX of cutting her face on the body double’s body wasn’t great though.
And it leads to what I didn’t like.
Robert strong had no point. In the books there was all this expectation with the Kings guard because she said to Margaery she need one of them if she wanted a trial by combat. That’s why she sent loras to battle and asked for Jaime’s help. So here it was just franken mountain with no other purpose.
DORNE !?!???
All of this for that?
And this ridiculous line : you need bad pussy? I felt really bad for the writing. Tyene+Bronn is fan fiction. I hate using that word and sounding like a book purist. But really.?!
Brienne sat there all season ok.
Stannis death. It sucks especially because I didn’t want the boltons to win. But after last episode I guess, ok.
Why theon came back then? Don’t understand. Do you trust me? Do you trust me? Jump!!
No danyarrhea. Expected haha. Liked the vision of All the khalasar. It just looked a lot like westeros but I guess winter is coming.
Jaime Myrcella.. Good luck for next season. I’d be Jamie I wouldn’t go back to KL but the riverlands directly.
Sam asking to go to old town. Ok. Everybody in the adaptation seems to chose what they didn’t in the first place but ok.
For the watch.
I was glad it wasn’t all Olly. But alliser, I didn’t buy it. It was out of character.
So yeah.
Meh.
There’s not a lot of book left so I’m really afraid for next season as they can be very good at adapting. But creating knew stuff.. Honestly..
My only thought to the crap-fest that was Dorne this season was that viewers love Jaimie and Bronn and they needed something for those characters to do all season.
I’m also assuming Dorne is part of the mysterious alliance with the Targaryens that Varys has mentioned a few times. So now we’re at least introduced to them.
Without Jon and Stannis, season 6 is going to struggle to find material, IMO. I’m down about Jon right now, and part of my acceptance is coming to grips with him not appearing for most or all of the next season, but in my acceptance, I feel like we need more interesting protagonists, or at least more interesting storylines for them. Tyrion ruling sounds fun. Spending another season in Meereen does not. Dany and the Dothraki, meh, I guess it could be interesting seeing how that shakes out. I loved her in season 1, so perhaps being with the Dothraki will rekindle some of that enjoyment. I still love Arya, and am interested in where she is headed. Sam in Oldtown, and Sam in general has begun to bore me. So my expectations are low for his storyline. That brings me to KL, and that is shaping up to be the most interesting part of season 6. We have Ser Robert Strong, now I ask for Sandor. I need him back in the show to help me deal with a lack of Jon for most, or all of the season.
Oh, and Bloodraven needs to look like Bloodraven.
I think Daario is gonna kill Jorah.
The more I think about it, the more obvious it is that Jon doesn’t die just based on Mel showing up. It’s not like the Wall (especially with Davos there) is the safest place she could flee to, so why else?
Dorne was a total bust, I agree. I honestly hope that was the last we’ll see of that place for the rest of the series.
Also, fuck Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. If the writers’ intention was for them to be unlikeable villains then they did a great job. If not, well…
At least the fans were thrown a couple of happy seconds:
Jon: “Sam, you were beaten half to death. How did you…”
Sam “verrry carefully.”
I gave an indulgent smile at that one. About Gilly’s baby – yes, he should be a toddler right about now, but anyone who has ever been around a toddler knows that you spend your life chasing them around. It wouldn’t do for little Sam to be toddling all over Castle Black, especially with all the haters prowling around. Saves time for more necessary things. Easier for Gilly to be shown holding him close.
There were more than a few slap-worthy moments as well, as in “Jeez, how I want to smack you, you bitch …”
Ellaria and all the Sand Smirks as they stood watching Myrcella float to her death.
Myranda as she stood there with that bow – Theon sending her over the rail marked the first time I actually felt anything good about him.
All the Septas who prepared Cersei for her Atonement, especially the one ringing the bell the whole damned way. Cersei will find a special place to put that bell.
The High Sparrow, who smiled for the first time this season as he watched Cersei walk away.
Melisandre as she stood there so mute and contrite in front of Davos as he implored about Shireen.
All of the Night’s Watch who had a hand in Jon’s death, but special knock downs for Alliser and the little bitch Olly. Did you see how furious that little ass was? Let’s see what his face looks like when the White Walkers come for him. (and Thorne)
Almost wanted to smack Stannis, but hell, he already got it from all sides.
D & D for punking everybody so badly re: Jon and Benjen, but if Harrington is off the show permanently, then short sheet their beds. Or whatever the heck Sansa tried to explain to Tyrion a few seasons back.
Yeah, I will be here during the summer to see the developments and news, and yes, I will tune in next year, but I hope to heaven Harrington is back. It’s going to be bleak without him.
What about the Winterfell Worker????
weirwoodtreehugger,
I don’t get where you think Fairley was being coy about LS. She’s said , “That characters done.” On multiple occasions. And so far, nothing has happened to disprove it.
Agreed. The fanbase isnt very mature I think. Or perhaps too feminine. Or doesn’t mind being jerked around and manipulated. What sort of a monumental jerk would it be to show Brienne swing, hear the *thwunk*and then what? Next season kicks off and we see Brienne somehow change her swing and hit the tree instead? Why? To what possible purpose? How much of a jerkoff would that be? How stupid? Or how stupid are the watchers supposed to be? How stupid cheap weak amd manipulative is it to kill off a character and then bring them back again. GRRM never should’ve did it once because now every booger is looking for it to happen routinely all the the time. Its a lazy cheap and sloppy device. Far as I can see if they didn’t do it for Shireen they should’nt do it for anybody.
This season was crappy as hell, the only good scene was hardhome, every thing else was just lame, rushed and nonsensical, Easily the worst season in all GoT, hope season 6 can fix this seasons fuck-ups
Welp, that’s it for Stannis, I guess? One fake-out death, OK. But two? I find that hard to believe.
Not happy with what they did to Stannis, I must admit. Really, what was the point of his character these last few seasons?
I was talking about the audience’s real life reaction to on-screen violence. But now you mention it, the Trant scene was of course infinitely more gratuitous than that supposedly oh so controversial Sansa scene. Only there certainly won’t be any discussion about the permissibility of this kind of on-screen violence in the days to come. And not only because the show pulled every stop to ensure the viewers believed he “deserved some violent thing happening to him” as you pointed out.
because the wildlings would have attacked the Wall again? Wun Wun don’t play.
I’m thinking Myrcella may live. Similar to her plot in the books were she suffered a murder attempt but survived. I may be wrong but it could be that Tristan saves her. 🙁
I don’t believe Stannis is dead either. Brienne probably felt pitty and let him leave. The red god still needs him.
why did alliser even open the gates to jon if he wanted him dead, seven hells, Jon and co. were on the royal fleet, they would have docked at Eastwatch and went to the wall from there, Plot holes detected.
Never should’ve introduced the resurrection concept. Its really a lazy ,cheap, weak, sloppy and manipulative device. As well as having every freakin goober doubting every freakin death now and waiting for the freakin resurrection.
stubbornness = bad
Davos and Melisandre?
I thought they did a really shitty job at building up to For The Watch. Why wasn’t there more dissent and hostility shown towards Jon for letting the wildlings in from more of Night’s Watch men throughout the season or at least in this episode? Olly was the only one who showed any real issue with it, Thorne was a dick about it but he is always that way. I also don’t like how it was just tacked on at the end with a short scene, it loses a lot of impact by doing that. Last season the Tyrion killing Tywin scene also suffered from that same issue of just being tacked on at the end without proper build up.
Overall I thought it was a mostly lackluster finale with the exception of Cersei’s Walk of Shame and FrankenGregor. I haven’t really liked any of the finales since the first 2 seasons.
Kay,
House Baratheon is not ended. There is still Tommen Baratheon. The bloodline is not ended either, we have Genry rowing his boat somewhere, and nearly 25 other offspring of Robert.
Huh? They’ve shown the unhappiness with it over and over with glances, complaints, even Jon and Sam discussing it in the finale. I did think the beginning of the scene felt rushed (possibly, because having read Moka’s theory last night it was obvious what was going to happen), but looking back at it…ugh, it’s beautifully done.
bookwankers are wanking all over the internet. I’m loving it, I still stand by my opinion. Fuck GURM if Jon is really dead, and Fuck him if he does a lazy ass I’ll just resurrect him gimmick.
Tibatonk,
Worked for Pippin
SevenHells,
I think it could have gone badly for them if they tried to keep the Wildlings out and started a fight with the Lord Commander out in the open like that.
Probably better to kill Jon quietly at night with no Wildlings or Jon’s buddies around.
Davos and Melisandre are Davos and Melinsandre. Stannis is Stannis. If this makes any sense. I’m not a fan of how the show decided to wrap up Stannis’ storyline. I’m having trouble seeing the “best military commander in Westeros”.
Unrelated to Stannis, I’m interested in why the showrunners did away with anything remotely approaching a cathartic moment.
exactly.
bostondave,
I have to disagree with this, especially because resurrection among major characters hasn’t been overused at all. And guessing and theorizing is all part of the fun of the series. If a lot of people wrongly doubt a character’s death, they’ll eventually realize that they were wrong and that’s that. Resurrection definitely has the potential to come across as cheap but I have yet to see that kind of cheapness reflected in the show.
So how many Curtain Calls will this site have to run over the coming days? And will it play along and do one for Kit Harrington?
How is it a gimmick, exactly? And what do you mean by “bookwankers are wanking all over the internet”?
Well, the Night’s Watch is going to want to burn the body right? They are not just going to leave it there to become a wight. I guess Mel can say she is going to burn the body and use a glamour to make it look like she did. Then bring him back in secret and hide him away for a while.
Considering the way the Dothraki were all riding around her, I doubt that grass will be recovering very easily. So, I suspect Jorah and Daario will have no problem noticing such a distinctive circle pattern of horse-trampled grass. Finding Dany’s ring at the very center of it should just be the cherry on top, so to speak.
Rygritte,
She was just an extra, it seems.
I watched on the 2am simulcast in the UK and we never have ‘Previously on…’ so when Olly and the Benjen thing happened I was properly ‘NO WAY!’ for about 10 seconds before I realised where it was actually going. Well played D&D…
Also, so much love for Dillane’s face leading up to the battle, especially that moment before he drew his sword.
bostondave: Agreed. The fanbase isnt very mature I think. Or perhaps too feminine.
Perhaps you’re a sexist prick.
Ravyn,
Not often. Not for GoT at least. Only when it’s part of his contract to do promotion, like for the Tunnel.
Hightower,
You mean the 20 or so non-Gendry bastards that Joffrey had killed seasons ago?
Perhaps
By that logic what was the point of any character that’s died?
JamesL,
Just shut up. Now you’re just complying for the sake of complaining. Nobody likes your kind.
richardhorpe,
well duh, the Viewers guide would say he is dead, because if he is alive then they spoil if he lives…I think it is gonna be Stannis, Brienne, Podrik, Sansa and Reek all together next season heading to Castle black
Where the hell is Gendry, 2 seasons and still no Gendry, Damn he must be rowing a lot
When has GoT shied away from showing death until the very end, other than maybe Ned?
Sue,
I don’t know why, but your “Thoughts” section, with its pluses and minuses, is always a highlight of GoT season for me. Beautiful write-up as always, but darn it, I’ve been cheated.
Kidding, of course. I’ll miss it, but you said it well. There’s nothing like Thrones on television and that’s a fact.
Brilliant finale. This will be the hardest nine-month wait of the series for me.
Ok, maybe my expectations were to high, or maybe there was some other factor involved, but this was the only episode of Game of Thrones that truly disappointed me. Here’s why:
*Let’s begin with Arya. I really enjoyed watching her kill Meryn, I truly did, but I would have loved to see a bit more of how she got the face and how she knew how to use them. Also, what happened to Needle? I felt it would make a bigger impact for her to say “I’m Arya Stark” with her last living piece of Arya, which is her sword. There was another problem in her storyline which was her blindness; it came outta nowhere, there was no spell, no hand gesture, no mistery potion, nothing at all. She just went blind, which wasn’t a problem for me because I read the books, but my unsullied friends were very confused.
Finally, and maybe i’m being nitpicky with this, but I thought Faceless Men were able to wear faces of deseaced people, so why did Arya see herself as one of the many masks they used? Maybe I will get an explanation next season.
On the bright side, Maisie was brilliant as always, and my god, that scene were she’s tearing the endless faces of the dead Faceless Man was incredibly done and very freaky.
*Now onto the Dornish side of the story. I’m not sure if Doran was in on it or not (he signaled Ellaria to approach Myrcella) but I feel there is no logical explanation in killing Myrcella.
If Doran knew, then he would be courting war with the Lannisters which is contradictory with his actions throughout the season.
If the sandsnakes and Ellaria acted alone, it’s safe to assume they knew the consecuences, and they would be executed just cause they wanted revenge? Revenge for Oberyn when he was the one who offered to fight to the death in a trial by combat? Getting revenge by killing their prince’s future wife? Another thing that bugged me was the forced “sweet moment” between Jaime and his daughter. It was really weird that Myrcella knew… and was actually happy, but I dunno maybe it’s just me.
Now, I know and accept that the books and the series are going separate ways, but to kill off Myrcella when they could have used the “Queenmaker” storyline was a waste. And part of me was hoping to hear Doran’s “fire and blood” monologue but I guess that won’t be happening anytime soon.
*THE BATTLE OF ICE! I didn’t think we would be getting this until next year. I had mixed feelings about this. Stannis killed by Brienne was a bummer. It happened so fast, and I feel like Brienne has completed her part in this story. I can’t imagine another season of her and Pod roaming the country, completing tasks given to her by people who are now dead.
Nevertheless, the visuals of the two armies were stunning and the acting was fantastic. Kudos to Stephen. Really liked Stannis last words, they felt very Stannisish. RIP the Mannis.
*Sansa now. I can’t say I wasn’t disappointed that she used the corkscrew just to pick a lock. It was highlighted in episode 7 and showed in the “Previously on” so I was expecting more. Theon killing Miranda happened to fast… last time we saw him he was still shitting his pants at the thought of Ramsay discovering he told Sansa about Bran and Rickon, and all of a sudden he KO’s Miranda. That cliffhanger with them jumping from the Winterfell walls like Thelma and Louise didn’t work for me either.
Loved seeing Sansa confront Miranda, there’s a she-wolf somewhere in there.
*Cersei and King’s Landing. No complain here I think, appart from the odd use of CGI as they put her face on a body double in some shots. AMAZING acting by Lena and I hope they recognize her job. Magnificent display of cruelty and humilliation and really well done overall.
*The part with Daenerys and Drogon was exactly as it played in the book and it brought me serious season 1 nostalgia. Awesome.
*Varys and Tyrion ruling over Meeren until the find Daenerys isn’t something in the books (at least not yet) but I am really intrigued and excited to see what they have in store for him. “I missed you”. Me too Tyrion, me too.
*Jon and the Wall. Nice seeing Sam go to Oldtown and do something he excells at. What I didn’t like (and kinda make me angry btw, which isn’t something that happens often) was how FTW was handled. When I saw Benjen in the “Previously on” I got mad excited, so the use of Benjen’s fate as an excuse to bring Jon outside… I felt I was being trolled goddamnit!! There was no tangible reason also… we didn’t heard any from any of the wildlings south of the wall, and we weren’t shown any reports of trouble. There was no Pink Letter, or anything to be considered a “last nail in the coffin” moment where the brothers HAD to act. Setting up such a cowardly ambush calling him “Traitor” and killing him without any bit of respect wasn’t a good move by the writing staff; now the brothers of the Night’s Watch look like tipical bad guys. And they left him there bleeding to death and left, leaving his body outside just like that…
*The parts that didn’t make it. Whatever happened to Margaery? I thought she was one of the players so it was odd to skip her storyline… And what about Littlefinger? Hhmm
OK. Final thoughts. It appears that the common denominator in all the storylines was the pacing. It was poorly done and a mistake to include every major storyline in the finale. In season 4, we got Sansa’s and Theon’s conclusion in episode 8 and worked like a charm.
I admire D&D for their commitment and hard work and I dont doubt their talent, but maybe they should hand this kind of episodes to more seasoned writers, Bryan Cogman for example. I am really looking forward to see what’s in store for season 6 and I am sure they’ll knock it out of the park, but they gotta check the pacing in the last episodes.
Now, the long wait. Hoping to read your opinions and we’ll have fun speculating this year, as we are all Unsullied.
AND SO MY WATCH BEGINS!
PS: Please feel free to correct any kind of grammar of spelling mistakes. English is not my native language.
hexonx,
You can do better than that! 😉
Tomi,
Jaqen said something to the extent of that Arya was still Someone, and to Someone, the faces were as good as poison. So I think the face itself that she used rendered her blind, as she was not No One wearing it. Or something? Lol.
Tomi,
Um…huh? Of course Doran did not know Ellaria was planning on poisoning Myrcella. He simply motioned for her to say farewell. The fact that you would even entertain the possibility that Doran was “in on it” is beyond absurd. Are you watching the same show that everyone else is?
Cogman is good, but the worst among the GoT writers. He wrote that horrible Sand Snake scene in episode 6 and the Yara vs dogs scene in Season 4.
Can’t you imagine her walking 200 feet to hook up with Sansa and Theon?
Mr Fixit,
His point is completely valid though. Stannis saved the Wall and Jon. He brought Melisandre North. By doing these things, he accomplished more than Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Oberyn, Jeor, Drogo and loads of other characters who truly died pointlessly
He never got to go out in some heroic charge, how sad! Oh please
Mr Fixit,
the point was that he dies as martin said ” major events will not change so Stannis is defeated by the boltons shireen burns house baratheon is ended
I got it. Kill and resurrect enough characters and raise an army of ’em to fight the white walkers. It can be atotal undead war for all the idiots.
Stannis, Jon, and Cersei material were very strong. Didn’t really like any if the other resolutions though, especially Jaime’s and Arya’s.
Overall I was a bit disappointed, although a lot of that has to do with my high expectations. I just feel like there are more dangling threads in the storylines than usual- the Sansa/Bolton conflict, the trials for Cersei and the Tyrells, Mereen in general, even Jon’s death and whether Melisandre will resurrect him. Not nearly as satisfying as other ends of seasons.
One character, of any consequence, is going to be resurrected. This will form a deep and carefully developed part of the plot with great mythic resonance, given the character’s messianic standing within the GRRM legendarium. So please spare me this rubbish about “cheap gimmicks”.
Nanida,
Have you ever read a single post I wrote on this site? I’d wager no. As such, I feel that debating you might be futile, especially when you insist on engaging me in bad faith and insinuate that I hold views that I most definitely do not hold.
The Bastard,
Hi Mr. Troll,
You’ve happened upon a rather sympathetic website for the TV show. Dorne was pretty bad this season. Not wholesale awful BUT pretty goddamn bad. Even I was a fan of the idea of sending Jaime to Dorne initially… but should have known better. My bro Bronn is alive and kicking! But I think they should just kill him off screen as a fuck-you from the showrunners to the viewers as if the whole Shireen fiasco wasn’t enough.
This finale made no sense. Rushed. Why even do the Battle of Winterfell and leave all the published and/or fanfic plots on a cliffhanger? Awful. Truly bad television. I’m sorry. But it really was not good. Unsullied viewers don’t even understand why FTW happened because they spent 3 minutes on it. Everything was rushed. Everything was wrong.
Oh and Brienne: RENLY WAS NEVER A KING. He was usurping the right of his elder brother. Stannis is King by the law of the land and she is a kingslayer if she actually killed him.
Ser Blount Sarkasm,
Of all the stupid and gratuitous accusations I’ve seen in my life on the internet of people being “trolls”, I think that one stands supreme.
Ravyn,
Interviews? I just googled a few. The actor seems almost as grumpy as the character, but yeah, he does promotion of the series along with everybody else, it seems.
I think the folks who are particularly upset over the fact that 5×10 ended on so many cliffhangers are absolutely within their rights not to like it but should see, in case they haven’t, that this was a stylistic decision through and through and one which mimics ADWD pretty strongly.
I recall a chat a week or so ago with a fellow here who was convinced they wouldn’t do this. I’m not posting just to say that I figured they would (granted, I did) but my point is that when we saw people saying this finale was tonally different from its predecessors, I think the writing was on the wall a little bit. They were going for ADWD’s style of conclusion and that’s just how things are.
For my money, it’s one of the best episodes of the show. But it does surprise me that people think it’s weaker than 3×10 in particular. I remember when “Mhysa” aired how wholly unsatisfied some folks were.
Why do I need to have read your post history in order to refute your argument? You said “Not happy with what they did to Stannis, I must admit. Really, what was the point of his character these last few seasons?” which is plainly ridiculous and, as rightly pointed out by hexonx, renders by logical extension, many previously built up then killed off characters as “pointless”. And in addition, as I’ve said, if Stannis is pointless than the likes of Robb Stark and Oberyn are completely non-existent. Indeed, there is no other explanation for such a statement other than Stannis not getting the character arc you envisioned for him, which D&D had no obligation to provide.
Jon lives..and he won’t need resurrecting ..just healing. And I don’t think Mel will have anything to do with it.
He does have Edd, and now has Davos, and Tormund & co. Are they going to let him lie there?..I’ve always said they could hold off casting Val until next season, but think they will have to. I think she’ll be involved in Jon’s healing in the books..but who knows for the show ?
I want to offer a hopeful idea to Stannis fans, since we never saw the blow land.. They cut LSH, but think of Brienne’s cliff hanger from the books… what if Stannis asked to take the black before the blow landed ? They love giving neat twists from the books for one character to another for the show ..for whatever reason.
The Benjen thing was maybe not complete trolling..if they’re bringing him back next year,sometime, this has served as a reminder.
Ummm, you’re blaming the brilliant writer GRRM for this atrocious adaptation. D&D wrote this awful episode and they could have omitted the Battle of Winterfell instead of spoiling book readers. There was tons of published material they left out that would have made the whole season more compelling.
Tip for book burners: READ THE BOOKS
Great episode!
I loved the Meereen scenes. Daario is such a darling in the series! I didn’t exactly buy the Tyrion-disapproves-of-Jorah angst, but that’s minor. Loved his Valyrian 😀 Varys’ return did feel a bit awkward. The visuals of Dany surrounded by the Dothraki were magnificent and very much reminded me of her embraced by the slaves at the end of season 3 (just in a slightly different context).
I liked the Winterfell scenes, particularly the sweet thud of Myranda falling to her death (and I’m really happy we didn’t get the graphic version of it). And – I did see a difference between Sansa as a captive in KL and Sansa in WF, but it was way too vague to justify all of D&D’s comments on how she takes matters into her own hands. Nope, in the end, she has to be saved.
Speaking of which – where IS Littlefinger? Considering his usual travel speed, he could be twice around the globe since the last time we saw him.
And where are Marg and Loras? I’d really like it if they (and Tommen) hadn’t just vanished halfway through the season. Sure, the spotlight’s on Cersei, but it would be great to see them, nonetheless.
The WOS was impactful. I was on the verge of tears by the time she’s done. Having anyone at all humiliated like this is just … unbearably painful to watch. I agree with the body double critics, it really wasn’t that great. But mostly the show just succeeded in making me hate the Sparrows all the more. I loved the Frankenmountain, tho!! The blue skin was just too creepy.
And I guess Kevan is safe for the time being, since Varys is in Meereen?
I absolutely LOVED Stannis’ fuck my life face when he slumps by the tree. Priceless. And I kinda think this isn’t the end of Stannis. (I wish it were, but ah well).
It actually sounds quite plausible to me, Brienne is naive enough. Though I think it’s possible Theon and Sansa stumble upon her and she finally gets to help the Stark girl.
Arya has pretty much completed her transformation into a psychopath. Her relishing in Trant’s murder was unsettling, to say the least.
And, finally, FTW. It feels odd that after 5 seasons, we as book readers are more or less in the dark about where the story is headed next. I think they handled FTW ok. I’m not too big a fan of ser Alliser doing it (Olly’s dirty looks made it perfectly clear he’d be in on it). I’m guessing Melisandre’s arrival was just a bit too timely and convenient for it to be a coincidence. I did get scared for a while seeing Jon just lying in the snow, but I’m still in denial that George would actually kill Jon. I mean – cuz like – who kills the protagonist? But, srsly tho, I fully expect Mel to be the one. We haven’t seen Ghost this whole season and with her just being there … We’ll see. I hope I find out from George, rather than D&D, but in any case, this shall be a long wait.
Look guys, they said Jon is dead, and Kit says he is not coming back next season. Both those things could be true, if by some strange configuration of events the details of which I am utterly incapable of guessing, it actually turns out he is resurrected in the seventh season. I have long had the impression that Jon being immediately resurrected in TWoW would really feel odd and dramatically unsatisfying. Maybe things will be more complicated, and Jon will only return towards the end of TWoW, or in ADoS. It seems like a long absence is necessary for the return to be impactful.
I will never ever ever ever understand the complaint that the show is “spoiling the books” when it’s 99.999% guaranteed this is happening en masse for the seventh novel.
No. In all seriousness theres something wrong here. Its a medieval fantasy depiction granted, but its frustrating looking for some rational substantive talk about plot, characterizations, themes etc. and instead have to wade thru so many stupid and frankly emotional posts devoid of any reason or logic. Outrage over rough sex and violence against women in a world full of violence against everybody, men women and even innocent children. Thats irrational in the extreme. And now everybody is looking for everybody to not die, or if so to then be resurrected. For fucks sake.
This format doesn’t help matters, doesn’t lend to interactions between posters. Point/counter-point… Too many want to be mini-reviewers.
You for instance got any point/counter-point to anything I said? Anybody?
The good thing about Jon Snow being dead is that the Watch is spent as a force in the story and we can now confidently expect the Wall to be smashed to bits and the Night’s King bearing down on the Boltons by the middle of S6.
Stannis is presumably not dead – I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that Benioff or Weiss have been popping up in interviews emphasising that if you don’t see the body… I can’t imagine what would have stayed Brienne though.
The other cliffhanger that I’m unsure about is Myrcella’s. It wouldn’t be stretching what we’ve seen too far to imagine Bronn still has some antidote left.
I guess for Stannis and Myrcella we’ll have to wait until the actor interviews appear for confirmation.
Stannis is the rightful heir to the throne. Renly was a usurper. It’s as if D&D have completely lost sight of the original material. They had time for Meryn Trant to abuse little girls but still exclude LSH?? The GoT show world has become a poor representation of the rich, colorful ASOIF world and bears virtually no resemblance to the book world anymore. Sad.
How could Brienne ever manage to make it from the Riverlands to Winterfell in time to execute Stannis?
Tomi,
English not your native language? You’re doing just fine.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Yes. I’m preety sure we watch the same show.I never said he was actually in on it I was just pitching the idea because some of my Unsullied friends were suspicious of Doran and because I was trying to find the logic in killing Myrcella. In my opinion he wasn’t involved so don’t get mad at me.
Balon01,
I know, it was the first writer that came to mind.
Jeff O’Connor,
I don’t get people saying it was a weak episode. It was definitely one of the most exciting episode 10’s, on par with last season even at the top of that list. On the other hand I have seen a bunch of unsullied complaining that the show is too depressing, or that it’s going nowhere and the writers have no idea what they’re doing ahead of time.
(I don’t agree for the most part, but it seems to be a common complaint on at least one forum (not a Game Of Thrones/Song of Ice And Fire forum), I hang out on, along with people making jokes about how nihilistic the show is). Although it’s kind of ironic, because before people were complaining about how slow the season was and how not much was happening.)
I do hope next season won’t be quite as bleak and depressing, even if it is brilliantly written, acted, and shot. I don’t really want to watch a show that’s just bad things happening to good people. Game of Thrones gets a lot of flak for the deaths and brutal realism of a lot of it’s scenes, but I think people tend to overlook the great characters, storytelling, acting, and humor and how little things like facial expressions and seemingly random hints end up being important later. I hope it doesn’t get to a point though where the darkness overwhelms everything else. And as much as I like the writing and think D and D have done a great job so far, I wonder if they get a little too happy about making their audience suffer.
Keelin,
The point is that Brienne considered Renly to be the true king, as her every action tells us. It’s not a formal statement of policy from the author or the show-runners. Is that really so hard to grasp?
Family lesson: daughters, don’t get emotional and hug your fathers – you will quickly come to a bad end. At least Jaime seemed genuinely glad / relieved and returned Myrcella’s hug almost at once, unlike that scene a few eps ago with Stannis with Shireen. The way Stannis just stood there so stiffly, I swear I kept wondering if he was ever going to manage to unbend and hug her!
I know some people don’t believe Stannis is dead, but really, what does he have to live for now? He murdered his brother and sacrificed his daughter. His wife killed herself. Half his men deserted him and in future wouldn’t be likely to serve a man who could kill his daughter; the rest of his army has been defeated. And Melisandre who started it all off has left him. Brienne could have left him to freeze or die a lingering death of his wounds, but I think she killed him out of both revenge and mercy.
Your idea of refutation appears to be as follows, and I quote you:
He never got to go out in some heroic charge, how sad! Oh please
Since I’ve never held that position (not even close), which you would’ve known had you read my posts, I must conclude that you debate in bad faith, misrepresenting others’ positions so you can “refute” them in the most strawmanly of fashions.
bostondave,
To be frank, you should have quit while you were just somewhat behind. Speaking as Not A Female, I think your notions of masculinity need some serious work. The kind of help you need will not be found on this forum.
Kitten,
ditto. His arc was nowhere near complete. He IS the Song of Ice and Fire. He MUST COME BACK!
please? pretty please?
No Jon Snow (for now, like in the book, he’s dead till proven otherwise). But, well, Melissandre is at the Wall. No Stannis. Which means the Boltons have no enemies. Except for Littlefinger. Maybe. Perhaps. But it would be the same story again and again.
The show is getting to the point I feared at its begining this season: lack of charisma. I hope Euron Greyjoy gives something visually atractive for the normal viewer of the show. Like Oberyn did. But they’ve lost too many characters, some of them in a way that doesn’t make them justice. Like Stannis. From being the one king everyone was rooting to, to being the murder of his only child. In the book everything seems against any of this happening any time soon, or at least in the same way it happened in the show.
They’ve lost their time in a few episodes, wasting it with nonesense, which has lead the show to this point. Boring storylines that end with the GoT-cliché: killing characters you love. It doesn’t help the sroty. You see when a death is hapoening for the good of the story or as a compensation for a shitty storylone. Myrcella ehem Myrcella. People like their characters. People will be mad. People stop watching the show. “It’s always the same. They kill everyone, it’s no surprise anymore. I’m sick of it”. Everywhere, in every YouTube video about the finale, or episode 9. Their only salvation are the cliffhangers. Margaery, Tommen, Cersei, Sansa, Reek… Almost everyone who hasn’t read the books thinks Jon Snow is dead. And, if they’re clever (story wise), the won’t return him to life inmediatly at the beginning of season 6. But, in the other hand, they need their heroes. And antiheroes. And villians. And on, and on, the soecks of the wheel crash. A show with Sansa, Brienne, the bloody horrible Sand Snakes and Ellaria as almost lead roles is the perdition of the show. Season six has to be perfevtly executed or this could be the end of the show. Audiences fall.
bostondave,
I am not interested in your views on the story. I’m offended by your choosing to use “feminine” as a slight.
Javier,
Go complain to GRRM, then. This is what folks signed on for; if they can’t handle the story, there’s always Once Upon a Time.
If she was truly a woman of honor, she wouldn’t allow her personal preferences to influence who she supports as King. Renly had no right to the throne. Stannis had a right, and a duty to the throne. Renly was a usurper.
Tomi,
Yeah, I don’t see Doran sending his son off to certain death via being the only Martell in arm’s reach when Myrcella died.
Jon isn’t dead. Mel is at the Wall so….
Just wanted to say that the finale was bleak, utterly devastating and so emotional. I love that D&D make profound moves with regards to the story, whether it’s a novel change or just re-working scenes. Sure Dorne was a bit meh, but clearly the Lannister vs. Martell war will heat up big time after Ellaria’s shenanigans. Cersei’s walk was heartbreaking, GoT is the only show where you find yourself having empathy for a nasty character. People complaining that it was too long, are just complaining for the sake of it. Like just no.
Arya’s arc climaxed in a big way, for all the naysayers complaining about the slowness of her scenes. Bam!!
I pray to God Theon and Sansa escaped, Sansa’s story for Season 6 is the one I am anticipating the most. What could lie ahead for her?! For me, it’s always about the small moments with Sansa, her being brave in the face of Myranda’s threat made me happy. I think when she’ll ascend to power, it’ll be more gratifying cos she has been through infinite shit from the get-go.
I have to say the aerial shots of the battle where great, when the Bolton forces swarmed round Stannis’s, i was like ohhhh snappp. Stannis has no real narrative purpose left, I did love his character though, Dillane killed it as always. So realistic. Losing all hope the space of a few minutes. Wow.
Again, I loved the small details. Mel looking for the first time defeated, haggard and well just human. No preachy ish from her.
Jon’s death was how envisioned it in the books, and didn’t disappoint. Kudos to Kit in his performance of Jon. The blood against the snow was striking.
Dany struggling with Drogon was hilarious, did anyone else find it funny when he knocked her over? Glad to see that it’s not all plain-sailing for her. Very intrigued by what her new company will do with her.
All in all Season 5 is up their with Season 1 and 4. I think D&D did a brill job of adapting
I was so not hoping for the cliffhanger but Melisandre is back so I’m fairly okay.
I also hope to see a great Curtain Call for Tara Fitzgerald, I love this actress and the way she portrayed Selyse.
And also, CLEGANEBOWL CONFRIMED! GET HYPE!!!!
I’ve seen a lot of comments assuming it was the same poison used on Bronn but it seemed to work too fast to be the same.
Selyse
Jaqen
Stannis
Meryn
Myranda
Myrcella
Jon
JFC. What an ep. I can’t really speak.
I was so laughing, when Mel arrived at Castle Black “just in time” for her next action in 601. (Now Spoiler, just speculation…. Still I’m gonna use the tags…)
D&D sat at the script: “Dude, in Ep 9 we need Mel down south for the Shireen BBQ, but we need her up North to play
She really needs a quicker horse than Littlefinger’s!” – “Nah, she’s travvling at the speed of Light…” – Laughter, fade out
Just seen the episode, so much to reflect on…
Just a quickie, really glad to see they put in the “Blind Beth” element now, I thought they’d skipped it as they seems to be leaping ahead in that story.
Franken!Gregor 😀
mkbean,
A cookie crumb? Really? It’s f***ing needle in a proverbial F***ing haystack left where it is. As if anyone is going to stumbled on it just like that, accidentally or otherwise. If that happens, it’s stretching going too far.
So, Jorah and Daario are heading northwards. How is that going to take them to the exact same location? Northwards from Meereen goes….. where? Vaes Dothrak. Who needs a so-called cookie crumb that’s about as much use…..? Skimming a flat pebble all the way across the Narrow Sea, with a “Please Rescue!” message etched on it, in a language nobody will understand. And then being understood, with a fleet launched to rescue whoever sent the pebble….. UNLIKELY!
Cookie crumb, my eye!
Pernik,
Thank you! I thought the same thing, I’ve read the books and knew For the Watch was coming but the reasons for it felt weak. If Thorne was planning to kill Jon why did he do it after he let a giant through the gate?
My phone died so will resume her.
A big kudos to D&D for adapting two huge books. An even bigger kudos for making a season, and indeed a show that is for a more universal TV audience and not whiny book loyalists. The season wasn’t perfect but it’s also the hardest show to make, so I’ll let them off.
Loved that this season was unforgiving and oh so dark, it makes sense because I foresee a few characters getting into positions of power or them getting justice in the next season. It makes it that much more powerful, that they’ve triumphed in the face of adversity.
On a final note, i’m glad that the villains of the show, the Boltons, are still a force. It won’tt last for long of course, Mel saw Bolton banners burning, I’m thinking an elusive LF will sweep in Season 6.
So it goes:
1. The only Baratheon left is Gendry, right?
2. Why did Myranda die being pushed from such a height but not necessarily Theon & Sansa? We don’t know yet what happened to them but if they come up uninjured next season then that’s very poor storytelling.
3. Did Brienne kill Stannis or did she smash her sword into the tree like Jon did with his into the rock when he was going to behead Ygritte?
4. Good on you, Ellaria! I’ve hated Jaime and Cersei ever since he pushed Bran out of the window hoping to kill the boy, then she sent a killer with Tyrion’s knife to finish the job and get it blamed on Tyrion. These two are poison. Fitting way to finish off Myrcella.
5. Some of Arya’s story makes sense (killing Trant) but some of it doesn’t (what’s with the double faces-hers & Jaqen’s?)
6. The Night’s Watch men are not forward thinkers are they? Some of them were there to witness what happened at Hardhome. What do they think will happen to them now? I predict a battle with the Wildlings in which most of the Night’s Watch will be slain. (Except for Edd, whom I always could see as the next Lord Commander. Remember how he was boss of the scythe atop the Wall in that battle vs the Wildling army? And the connection between him and Wun Wun was awesome. I predict Wun Wun to be Edd’s new bodyguard.)
But none of my predictions are usually right and that’s because the showrunners have no sense of continuity, either with characters or storylines that have been foreshadowed.
Ghasterly Rock,
Was Stannis army too much to count? How about those killed from Bolton forces? Perhaps Bolton forces were completely unscathed.
Were we not warned many, many, many moons ago that D&D were more deadly than GRRM?
Presumably they jumped into a snow drift.
Omg I forgot, Ser Robert Strong!! And the Benjen Stark red herring, D&D are you ruthless!!
Sue, I loved your final thoughts, couldn’t gave said it better. A big thanks to you and the WoW team for your amazing coverage all season and providing a community for us die-hards to cry together.
Is it me, or Jon Snow’s eyes….Did you notice it?
Dragon Tender,
I
Ha!
If Jon is indeed dead, what the hell was the point of the whole wall story? Who do we have there that we care about? (Unless Davos takes the black?)
jennyofoldstones,
Theon and Sansa are falling on snow and this will make the fall less dangerous?
“Mhysa” is definitely worse. I mean, it’s not terrible from beginning to end, but it’s one of the few episodes I just don’t really enjoy watching.
However, I’d say this finale is worse than every other finale on the show, for the reasons you bring up. Instead of resolving a lot of the storylines, it left them at cliffhangers. It’s one of the things that is particularly upsetting about FeastDance for me, that it left off so many storylines without their natural climaxes. Arya going blind while STILL at the House of Black and White is particularly frustrating. I disliked it in the books, I dislike it in the show.
i really can’t see how Jon misses most of next year. If Jon is the series’ hero warrior, how can he miss most of the book/season entitled The Winds of Winter? That’s the key time for the war with the White Walkers.
Myranda fell onto a stone floor, but they clearly showed deep snow beneath the walls of Winterfell, and…
weirwoodtreehugger,
My concern is that they might have decided to let GRRM get that out first in his books. If so, then we might never read it.
tristan snow or watever that guys name was right about the cersei scene isnt it ..they just cgi’d lena’s face into the double
LordDavos,
if you think you will see a lot of whitewalkers in the TWOW then you will be disappointed
it was supposed to be about whitewalkers invasion but GRRM messed up when he split up AFFC
ADWD should have had Dany;’s invasion but now it looks like we will be getting that only at the end of TWOW …
so unless she makes it into westeros there wont be more of WW
jennyofoldstones,
Other people got the snow drift. As for the Barstheons, they are gone: as a bastard, Gendry does not count.
As for Arya, she seemed to be doped. Jaqen did dump the drug in her mouth, and she hallucinated the rest.
As for the Nights Watch, presumably none of the ones at Hardhome participated. The sad fact would be that most of them would have thought the Hardhome story to be largely fabricated.
Nick Hartley,
They probably did not gel into a formal clique of conspirators until after that. In the books, there are a series of events that induced this, which is appropriate: you have to go from grumbling to commiserating to openly voicing mutiny to planning.
LordDavos,
This is not a series with “hero warriors.” He is, however, the #1 protagonist. At this point, I am not sure what they intend to do.
i dont know how i feel about jon and dany’s cliffhangers ..it has given more questions than answers and i wanted answers
so is jon not going to warg ghost …For all we know Ghost may have become Sam’s Direwolf …i mean jon’s last words is not even ghost …its olly..i never hated that kid but that change i didnt like especially if jon is dead for sure ..
only thing i am happy was about that scene was no Ser patrek
and Drogon is not with dany when she gets surrounded ..so she is going to taken prisoner and i wonder how will she able to control the dothraki …we dont want to see drogon appearing again to save dany
glad they resolved Battle of winterfell i always believed that pink letter was legit which means stannis does not burn shireen only mel and selyse does that ….D&D better be prepared for the Stanstans when the books comes out
So much complaining!
And to think that every new season there is more bitching yet more people watching. Oh, irony! 🙂
I love Arya, but, damn, that scene was a tad gruesome and almost sadistic. Don’t go down that dark path, young one.
I have hope that Stannis is alive. Brienne deviated her swing at the last second. I wonder what his storyline would be if that’s the case, though. It’s intriguing!
Speaking of which, people need to stop complaining about things they don’t understand. It’s a fucking story with 40+ recognizable characters. Of course you won’t understand certain situations (Arya seeing her own face on the body), and certain decisions (Thorne letting Jon enter with the wildlings and killing him AFTER) until you watch the rest of the story. How hard is that to grasp? Wait, watch, and see. You’re SUPPOSED to be confused, puzzled and left pondering. If we had every answer from the beginning, why would we care?
As for Jon, I’m sure he’ll be back. My guess is that he will show up in the last season OR that Kit was only stating that THAT character was done. Play on the words if you wish. He will come back as something else.
Point is, I love the mystery surrounding Jon’s future.
Well im not interested in your offense. Newsfuckingflash: boys and girls are different.
A few questions…
1) Is it really that easy to wear a face? I was kinda hoping for more magic there, it seems like magic, I mean the face mask seems not just change your face, but your body, voice, etc… we see Arya cleaning and learning to lie, but not how the masks work?!?
2) How did Brienne find Stannis? She seems to just be able to walk into the battle and not even have to draw her sword. Also I thought it would be more in her character to take a prisoner or fight a duel with honor – to kill a wounded man that couldn’t even fight back even a little, even one she hated, seems out of bounds for her.
3) I don’t see how Theon and Sansa will survive intact after that leap of faith. The Drop looked far and I know there is snow around the wall, but wasn’t the snow melting just outside Winterfell before the battle, so there could be a battle… they can’t just jump and be able to walk away w/o some kinda of injury… who is going to find and help them b4 the Boltons find them?
And Myranda… (nothing against the actor but) I wish they had just not included her at all, what a waste of minutes that could/should have been spent else where, she added nothing to the storyline at all, cut her out and with very few changes you wouldn’t miss her at all… it feels like Sansa actually had more dialog with her rather than Ramsey or Theon
4) Dorne?!? Do the SS not care at all for Tyrstane? Kill Myrcella and Tyrstane would be in immediate danger or at least a hostage – he will pay for their crimes. He is the only heir, does that count for nothing? I can’t see how Trystane would just happen to have the exact antidote to save her… but perhaps, the SS gave him the antidote, and this was more of a warning … doubtful
Also, why do you have to wait for the poison to take affect before you take the antidote?
5) Myrcella is okay, no happy, being a child of incest? Really? Dame, I thought she was the sane/smart one but she is as messed up as the rest – it should disturb her a little at least
6) Are all Dany’s legion of followers and troops gone now? No more bloodriders? Very little unsullied? no mercenaries? Only Jorah and Darrio to the rescue? They couldn’t put a half dozen ‘red-shirts’ in there just to flush out the number a little.
7) After such a coup in Meereen how are Tyrion, Missandei, Grey Worm, et. able to maintain control? I would expect a lot more resistance, protesting, maybe even the loss of parts of the city or just general lack of order – seemed to peaceful
8) Why were so many Dothraki riding around? I mean there were like a thousand all on horseback weapons at hand. Are they dragon hunting? How did they miss Drago, I doubt Dany was that far way from him.
9) Where is Ghost? Greywind fought beside Robb and tried to warn him before the end, Summer came to Bran’s rescue time and again, Shaggydog is never 5ft from Rickon, Ghost can save Sam and Gilly, but is a no show for Jon.
Josla,
Maybe he has one of those cool necklaces…
and i never believed that Alliser will take part in the FTW ..i thought he was a guy like stannis all about duty but an asshole …but then again i never believed he will shame Aemon on his death either so there it is
did anyone enjoy Ramsay playing with stannis men …i love Iwan
and that look pycelle gave creepy bastard
This was my least favorite season of thrones .
dragonbringer,
Except in the book, Drogon does appear again to save Daeny. They just altered the sequence of events for dramatic purposes.
As for seeing Drogon, how would they? He was not flying and they are not going to ride horses up to where he is.
Keelin,
Well, she ain’t, and she did. And guess who wrote her that way.
Has’nt been ‘overused’. Right there alone is not a ringing endorsement. It really is cheap, gimmicky and kinda perilous. For instance you now got everybody and their grandma questioning every fucking death and looking for everyone to get resurrected. So stupid so cheap and such a fucking can of worms.
Wimsey,
well dany did finally control him at the end of the chapter when she meets the khalsar and they stand together
i was speaking more about what will make the dothraki to believe in dany and think she is TSWMTW
i mean she has to show the strength to make them believe in her …she cant kill anyone or fight anyone ..if she goes hunting the white lion to prove her strength then also she needs drogon ..
but what i am worried about is it may be yet another scene where Drogon comes and rescues dany and not about dany herself
still i like the scene with her and drogon its one of their best scenes but like i said it has given raise to many questions than answers ..we now have jorah and darrio who will find the ring and follow her to vaes dothark lots and lots of possibilities
only thing we know for sure is she will unite the khalasar but how she is going to do that is mystery now
JTargs,
This!!! Me too.
If Shireen wasn’t spared no reason to spare any of ’em. Jon, Stanni, Mycella….
Speaking of which when and how in the name of holy hell did freakin Stannis, of all people, flip to a fan favorite in the almost blink of an eye and with nothing redeeming? Talk about irrational.
Um, are we supposed to think that? I really doubt that there will be anything so involved in the book. It’s going to be more like “Khal Bongo, Bingo, whoever the fuck you are: meet Drogon. Drogon: eat Khal Bon Bon.”
After that, it will be: “Now, let’s point this thing at Mereen.”
I am so emotional right now; woke up this morning lacking all reason and logic. I’ve still got my man parts though. How does this happen?
Probably not. In the books, it seems that that is a trick that only very experienced wargs (like Varamyr or, in the end, Bran) can pull off. Jon never really fully “warged”: he had wolf dreams, but he never actively or intentionally jumped into Ghost’s skin the way that Bran did frequently with Summer or the way that
(That last bit still might happen.)
Wimsey
My shorthand for a great fighter/leader which Jon is or was.
Most women I know would say that this makes perfect sense.
LordDavos,
Ah, sorry: I tend to be literal early in the morning before coffee and after emotional jolts!
This comment is maybe a bit out of context (the timelag in Germany is quite ruthless), which I apologize for, but I just really need to get this one thing off my heart: I loved, loved, loved this episode, it may possibly be among the / the best episode(s) of GoT, at least in my opinion. Yeah, there were some inconsistencies (Arya´s face among the masks), but a man needs to be very, very critical to deny a enjoyment of this episode because of such minor missteps. The only justified criticism I see can be directed at Dorne (once again) and the Sansa-arch, but these were clearly due to a lack of appropriate set-up in the last episodes and not the fault of E10 not being able to conclude these storylines in a satisfactory way. If anything, it redeemed them to some extent and saved what was to save, at least in my honest opinion.
I do not want to analyse every little bit of this episode, but one thing just needs a bit of acclaim, otherwise it would sink and be forgotten in the flood of information that was this episode. This thing would be the battle of Winterfell. It was beautifully shot and by deciding to pretty much only show the grim aftermath of it instead of letting nameless soldiers clash and slay each other, it kept a great atmosphere throughoput the whole scene. How they handled Stannis´ death was exceptional.
His last moments were bleak, grim and intense, showing once again that Stannis would rather break than bend, even though that inevitably was a tragically wrong decision in the end. It is nothing less than exceptional story-telling and writing when I find myself , after Stannis who killed my King Renly and burned his daughter alive, STILL secretly rooting for him in some place of my heart to some extent and wanting him to survive. But the really exciting thing is HOW they managed to pull it off without letting it seem like the revenge of Brienne but rather a full-circle-narrative about Stannis´ sins and his downfall because of them.
Rather than letting Brienne quite literally slash his head off, they went with the atmospheric approach to not show the banality of death onscreen, but we more or less witness an transcendent atmosphere in which all boiled down to Stannis´ original sin. He is not slain by Brienne´s sword as much as he is slain by all the gruesome decisions that now backfire on him, making the absence of a real death-scene by sword all of a stronger metaphorical image. The sword now comes down on him, but his real downfall had occurred before that. Internal, he was dead long ago but dragged forward by what he deemed his duty, yet now in his final moments the “weight of his sins” pulled him down into his grave. Strong imagery and definitely one of the GoT-scenes I will always remember.
There would still be so many other interesting and outstanding things to talk about concerning this episode, but I will leave this to all the more talented writers on WOTW that can do real justice to the intriguing source-material that is this episode, I´m sure they will find better words for the other points I wanted to address.
Two detached things to say as a conclusion; I really liked the Arya-scene and its brutality since I was constantly worried that through the whole Pedophile-Trant her decision to kill him would be positively reacted to by many of the audience, which I would have thought of as the exact opposite of character-development. Arya needed to be shown as the broken little girl with a serious childhood-trauma she still is, how much she may deny it, her kill-list needed to be made plain as the one thing that hinders her from being more than “Arya Stark”, not as an iconic meme-worthy part of her. Meryn Trant may now still be merged with Raff and a pedophile, but the sheer brutality and gruesome unforgiveness of Arya served to make clear that this wasn´t an excusable “kill-the-bad-guy”-job after all. Well done, writing-team, didn´t think you could resolve that plotline that well.
The other thing: I didn´t have a problem with Franken-Mountain and I can´t tell why anyone could have. What´s the reason that some( very few, but still some) have a problem with his inclusion and/or depiction, I would be interested in knowing? I don´t say this because of smugness and I´m really sorry if it should be considered so, it wasn´t my intention. I´m just really interested what the arguments against the inclusion or depiction of Franken-Mountain would be…
hexonx,
Fair point – course she’s probably in a permanent state of arousal thinking about her beau; that would make it work fast – reasoning of other commentators seems to be that the Bronn/Tyene thing was foreshadowing and the symptoms were the same.
Well, here goes. Not a rant I hope, but an opinion.
I loved seasons 1-4. Dead wood was cut out cleverly but characterisation, subtle clues/foreshadowing & pacing was great. All the plot lines were relevant and you couldn’t see them coming. They ran in parallel comfortably and dissected in what seemed a natural way. Not perfect, but great all the same.
Season 5. I can honestly say they had a great episode – Hardhome – but really nothing else good from the previous seasons. It seemed like they had decided that they had these few CGI and other set pieces from the books to get to in episodes 8, 9 & 10 and it was impossible to get there in a rational way in the time allotted, it is 2 books worth after all. Seasons 3 & 4 were one book plus extras. So instead of taking longer and slotting the big set pieces in over a season and a half instead – or having a 13 episode season, they just crowbarred some spurious contrivance in just to get to the end faster. Almost every episode in the second half of the season was rushed. Very little was logical or character’s motivations believable. I really started to feel that maybe D&D have been living on a different continent to their families for too long, they have made their name and just want to get this over with now. 7 seasons when the material probably needs 9.
Examples:
The entire Dorne debacle. Identikit bimbos fighting badly in broad daylight, an utterly bizarre season long revenge quest – completely in opposition to Oberyn’s stated views. The set-up was in season 4 when Oberyn pointedly found out about Dany. Surely plotting to ally with her would have been more interesting. I get the feeling they wasted an entire season just getting Jamie out of town. There must’ve been a better way.
I still have no idea WHY Sansa went to Winterfell. No problem with Ramsay doing what Ramsay does. In the end I was annoyed that the whole thing – the rape of a young girl – turned out to be nothing but a redemption arc for a man.
What happened with the Iron Bank, Margery & Loras current status, Littlefinger’s whereabouts and him ‘not knowing about Ramsay’, Dany’s remaining bloodriders, lack of Ghost in any meaningful way? And sooooooo much more.
I have had no inclination to watch any episode twice except Hardhome, which is really strange for me. In the off season I’ll try to binge watch the season to see if I get a different view (it is my preferred mode of viewing), but at the moment I am still distinctly underwhelmed.
Rant over. I feel a bit better for that.
Wimsey,
you maybe right but i was under the impression she has to prove to them because jorah said something along the lines ” the dothraki follow strength above all khalleesi until you have proven strong they will not respect you ” like that in season 3
Wimsey,
if thats true
it makes me wonder why mel sees jon as man and wolf and man again
I got a laugh out of this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/06/14/c-j-wilson-was-just-as-drained-as-everyone-by-game-of-thrones/
MLB pitcher CJ Wilson comments about last week’s episode of GOT.
I hate to think of how he will pitch after watching the finale! XD
Ghost’s Lunch,
What on earth makes you think that Jon WILL be resurrected? A rhetorical question, of course, as we have Davos and Melisandre still at the wall and since Melisandre obviously has her eye on Jon, but seeing as a lot of the resurrection plots from the books are skipped in the show, I’m really not that hopeful.
Just mulling over the Jon death thing – I’d taken Harington at his word that he as an actor won’t be back. He could have been instructed to troll us of course (which would also reopen the LSH door) – that would be mean. We might keep an eye on his hair over the coming months but if they really wanted to make the deception they could just wig him up next season.
On the other hand why else would Melisandre jetpack back to Castle Black if not to be there to resurrect him? Given his clear importance in the books (R+L=J, Dragon has Three Heads etc.) the only scenario I can see if Harington is telling the truth, is that Jon will be resurrected as a facially disfigured mute, for whom they will hire a new actor!
Alix the Direwolf,
I quite agree. Season 5 began to smell of hubris. Sadly.
dragonbringer,
He may be a man, a wolf for a season, then a man again. Kit Harington for season 7? He has a lucrative contract for it, if taken up.
Or he may be a man, a wolf, another man (Hodor?) briefly, then a dragon.
Lightbringer is always warm to the touch, like a woman, but burns red hot and flames in battle. Sounds like a dragon to me. Jon T could warg a dragon and ‘wield Lightbringer’. Kit Harington need never show up again.
My wife – 100% completely pure unsullied – immediately turned to me and said “Mel’s gonna resurrect him, right? He’s too important to the story and way too hot to lose as an actor.” I couldn’t help laughing, even after all that misery.
As compared to trolling us about Benjen and Mother’s Mercy? D&D certainly aren’t shying away from that kind of behavior.
Keelin,
Honor, like all morality, has different “truths” for different people. Brienne swore gows to Renly, not Stannis. She probably did not swear to uphold primogeniture. So, she acted completely within her moral code.
That would be a horrible choice.Show watchers care about him largely thanks to Kit and if they hire someone else.Audience will not be happy about it.Same thing goes for Emilia,Peter,Maisie and other actors.You can recast side charcters like Daario,Mountain but not one of the main characters on the show.
I’m pleased that I turned out to be correct about Sansa’s “ambiguous” finale being her jumping with Theon from the walls of Winterfell. Called that one a while ago.
In terms of what this means for the books, while in some respects we’re left exactly where the books left off–Dany, Jon, etc.–and in some respects we seem to have vaulted ahead of ADWD–all things Stannis, for one, Ser Meryn’s death
, Littlefinger leading a Vale army to Winterfell–we’re still stuck in ADWD for a few:
-Arya has just been blinded, even though Season 5 covered some of her post-blinding material (the insurance salesman, the Mercy TWOW chapter)
-Theon and Sansa (in the Jeyne role) have just jumped from Winterfell, although it doesn’t look as if they’ll wind up in Stannis’ camp as Theon and Jeyne did in the books, what with Stannis being dead and all
-Tyrion is essentially taking over Book Barristan’s role as leading in Meereen
-most importantly, TV Varys is in Meereen and
It seems like there’s still a fair amount of cleanup on ADWD to do on certain storylines before they can truly move into TWOW territory for all the storylines. I don’t know whether that means we’re back to eight seasons and not seven.
et tu Brienne?
Chad Brick,
This comes up for all of these series: showrunners do not make the “previously on” clips. Moreover, the people that HBO uses to create these for their series (I seem to remember that HBO uses a team used by other networks) had to show Benjen on it because the show uses Benjen as a lure for Jon. It has been 4 years since Benjen was on the show, so it was imperative that they show him: after all, people have better things to do eith their memories than hold incidental characters from TV shows.
And I do not know how Mother’s Mercy is trolling: it seemed like an appropriate enough title. After all, we got both Cersei’s walk and Arya’s Mercy chapter: that is both of the things from the books on which the title riffs.
Chad Brick,
With each passing hour it’s looking more fishy. The Internet is awash with replicates of the ‘I’m dead, I’m not coming back’ story for Harington, but there’s not a single interview yet with Dillane or Tiger Free talking about their supposed demise, so far as I can see. Why the huge emphasis on just one of the deaths?
Course maybe Harington is sick and fed up of the role and gave the showrunners an ultimatum – that’s an angle I haven’t seen posited anywhere yet!
ash,
Davos taking the black doesn’t make up for Jon.
On the subject of Tyrion in Mereen and a pair of dragons in the basement. When he finally goes down to visit them (as he surely will) it’ll be ‘FFS Dad, what kept you – now get us out of here and let’s go a goating).
Anyone annoyed at the “revelation” that Tyrion speaks some Valyrian clearly wasn’t paying attention when the brothel bouncer earlier in the season made the comment about it being good luck to rub a dwarf’s head, and Tyrion clearly understood what he was saying.
After reading Jon’s book ‘death’ I didn’t take it that seriously but to be honest this has me a bit nervous. He suffered 6 blows whereas in the text I think it was 3 – a couple of other strikes missed. If Jon really is dead I’m not sure I’d want to stay watching. He’s the centre of the series for me.
Wimsey
No worries
“My Valryian is a bit nostril” 😀
Win the “My hovercraft is full of eels” award for season 5
A simple “previously on game of thrones” showing that scene in season 3 where Thoros of Myr explains to Mel how many times he resurrected Beric and viola resurrected JS
M,
The “cleanup” can segue pretty smoothly into the next story. Remeber, Arya aleeady has done some of her Winter stuff, so she has “room.” They pretty clearly are not bothering with Sansa’s Vale stuff: the important dynamic development has happened. Tyrion is almost certainly well into Winter in some ways. Brienne also has been bumped ahead a bit. Daeny is where she should be. Bran is where he should be. Theon is where he should be. Jon is where he should be, or done. Sam is where he should be. Davos is probably clise to where he should be. I did not grasp it until this morning, but Jaime is where he should be. Cersei is a chapter or teo behind where she should be.
Let’s say they do not want Kit in season 6. But want him in season 7.
The only reason he might be persuaded to do that if they just said, ok we aren’t going to need you for a year, but here is your salary GL. That means they just pay him for the full year of “acting” to keep on board.
Although even as an actor I wouldn’t be very comfortable with that, they might also settle for him to reappear at the end with his scenes filmed in American studio’s.
Alix the Direwolf,
Rant number XXXXXX
LordDavos,
Jon is dead, Azor Ahai is born
Oh come on, you are not that naive. I cannot imagine the showrunners and directors have no input on what goes into the previously-on clips, and in any case, they could have used any lure in the universe to call Jon over, just as they could have called Cersei’s penance anything other than Mother’s Mercy. D&D et al knew exactly what they were doing. Are you seriously arguing this was just a coincidence?
thremnir,
Um, the answer to why only Harrington is getting emphasis should be really, really obvious!
So given that Kit is at least trying to pretend that his role on the show is over, can we assume that Jon’s role in Season 6 is very limited? He can always “go on vacation” for a week…disappear off the grid, and as long as he only has a few scenes, and they’re not location shoots where he’d be spotted by the public, that would be workable.
I mean, what’s the alternative? If he’s going to have as big a role in Season 6 as he’s had in past seasons, then he’ll be filming for months and months, so I don’t see how they could keep that a secret. And if they can’t keep that a secret, then what’s the point of doing this interview where he says he’s dead in the first place?
So I guess this means that he’ll have only a small role for Season 6 then? How is that going to work story-wise though? Can Mel really resurrect him after he’s been dead for three weeks? And if not–if he has to be resurrected right away–then what is unJon going to be doing all season if he won’t be appearing on screen much?
This comes up for all of the series on HBO, Showtime, SciFy, etc. The showrunners often have some input, but teams devoted to this sort of thing are employed to do it. It’s basically become a branch of marketing for the many series that do this. (And there are lots of them these days!)
Er, so? It’s not like it has any other meaning. The phrase is used over and over on the show and in the books.
Proximity? I guess John Bradley didn’t realize that Mel was apparating from Winterfell to the Wall in the last few minutes of the season.
Too much. Really. Everyone is questioning every death and expecting resurrections all over the place. The absolute topper is even those that read Jon’s death in the book don’t believe it in the show. Man o man o man.
Wimsey,
No, you silly goose! You see, Chad thinks, of course, that the title “Mother’s Mercy” is D&D trolling us about LSH!
Holy mother of God… how much do I wish conspiracy-thinking wasn’t so bloody ingrained in the human race. Apparently we don’t have enough conspiracy theories about Kennedy being assassinated by Insert-Over-Complicated-Plot-Here, the Moon Landing being a fake or 9/11 being an inside job… Apparently we must also endure conspiracy theories about TV shows.
Logic & Reasoning should be a compulsory class from elementary school to high school. Maybe fewer people would base essentially all their arguments in logical fallacies a three-year old could spot if they weren’t emotionally invested.
I think it was a brilliant piece of trolling. Well played D&D, this book reader approves 🙂
Thinking about the last Arya scene, it gets so surreal that I think she must have been drugged beforehand with a mild hallucogenic, then with some suggestive dialogue from Jaqen and the Waif she sees…that.
I hope that they are not playing it so that she wakes up in season 6 and can see and we get a “Let that be a lesson to you, young lady”.
Mr. Morden,
Meeeester Moooorden, (that’s my Londo Mollari voice)
You’re onto something, I think. Fans around the world are going to hate it, but Season 6 might well be incredibly light on Jon.
If he’s put in cold storage or something (the books did mention “cold cells” at the Wall…) perhaps that’d help, er, preserve him for a while.
So many emotions regarding last nights finale. Sadness, Anger, Hope, Confusion… (flashbacks of “fade to black” Soprano’s finale) ugh. As a book reader, I knew what was coming, but still. I suppose more than anything I’m disappointed that “my idea” of how things should go down re: Jon Snow wasn’t how GRRM and D&D saw it. Waaaaaaaaaaaa. The hope I’m clinging to is that yes, technically, “Jon Snow” is dead…… because he’s tranformed/resurrected into AA. I just can’t imagine all of the run up with WW focusing in on him and all the R+L=JS being all for not, but then again….. who knows. Guess now our watch begins until WOW & Season 6……
It worries me that book readers are also worried about the Jon possibly not coming back. I haven’t read the books but I have been predicting his possible death for a few episodes now because of Olly, and how most of the NW were not happy with Jon’s decisions…. but I really really thought there would be more to it than him just dying:
– Mel’s obsession with Jon made me predict that her thinking Stannis is the chosen one was a mistake (and I was right!)
– Mel’s obsession lead me the realization of R+L=J is most likely
– Previous proof of resurrections occurring, and Mel even observing one.
– Multiple foreshadowing 1. “Kill the boy and let the man be born” 2. “Jon always comes back” 3. and the constant references to how Dany is the only targaryan remaining… but I think not. And I hope not
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!
If all that is for nothing, than that would be so fucking lame. Sorry.
Damn, this episode was rough. So many deaths. I hadn’t read the Mother’s Mercy” sample chapter on GRRM’s site and had had no intentions to do so before ADWD cam eout, so this was the first time the SHOW spoiled me on the BOOK, lol.
Stannis was truly lost …
Qyborg sighting, yay!
Uggh, I hated this episode. I was finding reasons to stay happy throughout the whole season, hell I was even hyped after episodes 8 and 9. But now after everything, I just feel sad. For the Watch, Battle of Ice, Theon’s redemption, Dorne lol – and whilst I didn’t seriously think LSH would be in it (by the end of the season), D&D’s needless trolling this year doesn’t help my mood. The bit about Benjen in the recap as well just goes to show how much they love doing this.
All these things disappointed me but I don’t know if there’s even any point elaborating. The books are still the books, after all. This is just a bonus. I liked the Cersei and Samwell scenes. I think expecting too much of the show because I’ve read the books is what ruined it for me. It’s my own fault, really.
I’d been waiting for you to say something, Sue! I loved how you left the main part of the recap with just the solid facts from what we saw in the show, but I thought you’d have said something in your thoughts. I’m glad (relieved) to see them now, especially with all of the Kit and D&D quotes streaming in.
*smacks forehead* Of course! Why not? That is only completely opaque…. (I mean, do they ever call LSH’s executions “Mother’s Mercy”? If so, then I don’t remember it: but, then, as LSH is on all of 2 pages in the books, it would not be hard to forget….)
You cribbed that from me: it must be a conspiracy! Seriously, you are absolutely right. I think that “logical” is the second most misused word in the English language, behind only “irony.” No, an unpleasant coincidence is not ironic, and “that’s what I would do” is not a logical proposition.
I had hoped that computer programming would solve some of this: you cannot make computers do things on the arguments many people attempt to make in this and other things in life. Sadly, it seems that nowhere near as many people learned to program as we hoped back in the 1980’s.
Anyone else think that the Dorne storyline, as disappointing as it was, was all about pushing Jaime’s character arc? After all he’s just seen his daughter die in his arms after the two of them have bonded following the moment of truth. Rather than the obvious of provoking Martell and Lannister conflict – what’s that going to do to Jaime on a personal level now?
So many character arcs show them having everything they hold dear stripped away from them and just when it can’t seem to get any worse it suddenly does.
If you think this has a happy ending…
Ginevra,
I wish that I was so sanguine! I really worry that they decided to let GRRM do the big “reveal” in the books. However, it would be a colossal waste of 5 years of character development. And Melisandre is at the Wall. (But, unlike the book, she is not surrounded by allies and possible supporters of Jon.)
IF they are trying to pull a fast one, then they have a very steep hill to climb. This isn’t 1980: many people have lamented that you could not anymore do a Who Shot J.R.? (in which one of the big questions was: would J.R. live? That did leak shortly before the season, but only shortly.).
D&D don’t make recaps and in many countries the channels didn’t show recaps at all. There is no trolling.
Wimsey,
What do you mean, “big reveal”? I’m probably missing something here.
I was glad to see Sue say something as well. Nervous, argh. I need TWOW yesterday.
You amaze me, Wimsey. I seriously am flabbergasted by your assertion that D&D weren’t trolling, and that it was just a big cosmic coincidence. There is literally no way they did not know what they were doing and how it would be perceived, and if you are claiming this is the case, you are claiming they claiming are clueless when it comes to the fandom (which they most definitely are not).
In any case, it is a pretty minor point. We got book spoilers galore tonight, and those are more fun to think about than the somewhat childish antics of the showrunners.
I was saying that all season, although I also expressed concerns that it did not move fast enough.
And it occurred to me this morning: they actually did tell Jaime’s “kill Tywin’s son, become a Lannister with a Soul” story. I was blinkered and fettered by having read the book, and missed it. But it was all about Jaime trying to by Tywin by setting out to “fix things” for the Lannisters. But in the end, he actually is owning up to being a real father both literally and figuratively. Think on it: Tywin tells both sons that “You are no son of mine.” Jaime actually balls up and tells his bastard daughter that she is his. Moreover, instead of singing her the song about Family and Duty, he sings her a bloody Paul McCartney song! (I like Sir Paul, btw.) And he is genuinely happy that she is happy: could you see Tywin ever even caring if his kids were happy?
So, in the end, we got Jaime setting out to prove he could be Tywin, and winding up showing that he’s a hell of a lot better a man than Tywin. They pulled the trigger late, and I missed the important guns when they went up, but they were all there. (Bummer about the daughter, though…..)
The fact that it is so opaque to someone like me makes me very skeptical that this is anything more than another illogical fantasy on your part. What you really need to do is: get over yourself. They are not trolling you or any “us.” You are incredibly naive if you think that they do. What is in it for them?
I am rewatching right now, and I just had an Idea. In Season 6 Cersei will be on Trial for her sins. So of course, Jaime will be asked about the incest-accusations. And I feel like, after what happened on the ship with Myrcella, he doesnt want to go back to being Uncle Jaime.
Balon01,
Needless to say I disagree with you, but I can’t be bothered arguing over it when it was just a secondary point that I edited into my original comment afterwards. Trolling or not, I still just feel disappointed by this episode. Maybe I’m being too harsh, I’m rewatching scenes now (it’s surprising how much better stuff is when I rewatch it), but I doubt I’ll suddenly become really happy about anything in this case.
Who Jon’s mum is.
What this makes me wonder is if we won’t be getting that even in Winter. When they started the series in 2008, it was assumed that the books would be done by now. Of course, they aren’t, and given GRRM’s age and glacial pace, we might never see Dream. (If he kicked it tomorrow, then it’s possible that he has enough of Winter done that it could be published: but not Spring.)
Now, it is hoped that Winter will be out by next spring. IF GRRM is going to tell us in Winter, then I would expect the show to let this out next year. They could keep it: and if the book was delayed and the Lindaaaas of the world complained, then they could simply and truthfully say that they thought that GRRM would have told us by now.
However, if GRRM intends to tell us in Spring, then the show would have no choice but to tell us before the books OR not tell us at all. My fear (and perhaps this is just borne of the gloom from last night’s apocalypse) is that they have decided to go the latter route. After all, with Jon dead, what does it matter who whelped him? I do worry that out of loyalty and friendship with GRRM, they are obviating the issue by killing the issue. (See! Double Entendre there! Even in grief, I’m still witty as all get-out.)
The cold logical part of me (which is 99% of me: but that 1% has pulled a Koch brothers and stolen the elections today!) says: if you invest 5 seasons of so much development and dynamic development into the #1b protagonist and then throw it away, then the final story will suffer immensely. If I accept the premise that B&W want a story that will make names of them indefinitely, then they do not want that.
There are, however, rare days when even I find it hard to be purely logical…. 🙁
God only gave Man enough blood for one head to work at a time, so this morning you must have been a dick head. See, easy answer
Lord sand,
If you watch the Behind The Episode (or whatever they call it), they say she dropped it as a “breadcrumb”, so when people are looking for her they’ll see her ring and know she was there (and in trouble, if she’s leaving bread crumbs)
I don’t think that D&D will leave Wall storyline out of season 6.It will be simply much smaller part of the story.
It’s tradition to burn his body after death.I don’t think funeral pyre is gonna work.Like with Dany in season 1.Lord needs him,or some of that cr*p.I can see Mel playing some part in this,but why is Davos there?There’s got to be some reason for this,and how will Night’s Watch deal with Widlings on their side of the Wall?White Walkers will attack the Wall sooner or later.So many questions.
xylia1225,
And when Daario picks up the ring and says “Not idly do the leaves of Valyria fall,” I will cheer!
Wimsey,
Ahh, heh. Gotcha.
I want your 99% to prevail. I’m totally with you that the story will ultimately suffer if this is dropped. I’ll be chanting for the 99% for the entirety of the off-season, I suppose. I think D&D writing Jon out entirely — hell, GRRM writing Jon out entirely — is the only thing that could possibly make me lose interest in the franchise and I consider it a damn blessing I read the books already and I’m well-acquainted with all the theories.
Not fond of the idea of Harington never returning regardless, as is being suggested by last night’s string of interviews, but I’ll take what I can get.
Geralt of Rivia,
I would not be surprised if Davos goes Rickon hunting now for whatever reasons. Perhaps, being the guy that he is, he will think that he is making restitution to the Starks for Stannis’ and Mel’s part in their downfall.
Jeff O’Connor,
This is actually a Martinesque conundrum for me. Usually I stick to reason over emotion: but here I have one set of emotions saying: “yes, listen to reason!” and another set saying “Abandon all hope.” So, if I am rooting for “reason” should I start to doubt it!?!?
😉
Seriously, Color me flummoxed.
Gracias a Dios ~ Dieu merci ~ Al-ḥamdu lillāh ~ Gott sei Dank ~ Thank Goodness!
I loved him in the 1st season ~ he was one of my favorites. That waned a little, for various reasons, until this past season, when all the love came back again.
Here is a great in-depth article which seems to say:
The Importance of Warging + Resurrection & The Lord of Light + Hints from GRRM + An Unfinished Story + Some Other Stuff = Jon Is Still Alive.
http://www.businessinsider.com/game-of-thrones-is-jon-snow-dead-or-alive-2015-6
So you ARE claiming they D&D ignorant about the books they are adapting, and didn’t know about LSH’s alternate names? And not just them, but pretty much anyone involved in writing the show? And isn’t claiming they didn’t know about the Benjen/previously-on matter is utterly implausible? How could they possibly not know? Why on earth would they choose that lure, as opposed to any of the gajillion others they could have used (like a fight, as per the books)?
As for motive, people making jokes usually find them funny or clever, whether they are or not.
They looked black to me. What did you see?
Ugh.
David Nutter:
“What was Kit’s last day on set like?
He is a consummate professional. It wasn’t unlike the Red Wedding where everyone gets attached to people when you work with them for such a long time. You really grow quite fond of each other. You’re family. It was a lot of sadness on the set. The guys on the crew knew Kit really well, and people who are extras — the members of the Night’s Watch, they take this very seriously. They have clubs and they have get-togethers. These guys have to look like that 24/7, 12 months a year. They live the part so much. I took all of the extras aside prior to shooting the sequence and we read the Night’s Watch creed together, because I wanted them to feel like they are part of it. Without them being involved, it wouldn’t have worked as well. I wanted the scene to happen rather quickly, where it didn’t hang at all. That it would happen before you know it.
The book is a little ambiguous. This looked final. It’s safe to say Jon is dead?
Jon Snow is dead.”
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-cersei-walk-shame-802402
I hope Edd and the Cook lock them all into the mess hall and set fire to it and let Ghost kill anyone who makes it out. Fill the tunnel and head south, Edd. And take LongClaw and Ghost with you.
You know what…
When all is said and done about this episode and Season 5 in general, I think it was Very kind that HBO and D&D have still given George a chance to bring out The Wolves of Winter before they start Season 6.
We are ‘basically’ still at the same place we are in the books.
No Way is Jon dead.
Whatever device we feel George used to write that event, I just saw it as a way for Jon to be freed of his Night’s Watch vows.
His Watch has Ended! …let Jon Targaryen Arise! 🙂
Frankly I was disappointed with the finale. It felt very rushed to me.
I’ve noticed a lot of Unsullied across the web who weren’t satisfied with the finale. I do fear that this Season has turned off a lot of viewers, it was a mess 🙁
BTW does anyone know if they used a body double during Cersei’s walk? Cause it really looked like it to me. Lena’s acting was superb during the scene but it kinda took me out of the moment knowing she wasn’t actually nude.
Where’s Patchface with his season six spoilers?
So all things considered last night was my favorite finale of the show except season 1’s. The previous episode wouldve been great if not for some minor cgi problems. But wow did i love all the stannis stuff. I actually want stannis to be alive more than jon. There wasnt anything that i didnt like this episode except maybe robert strongs eyes and that alliser stabbed jon. I mean it all was a little rushed but it was still a fun ride.
I’m not quite so sanguine. At least not completely. Most of my bravado is to keep the faith.
Right now, I’m going with 75:25 to 90:10 odds that Jon will rise and fight again. Truly, I’m on pins and needles that there is this much doubt in my mind, and I was relieved to see Sue stand on the side that this is bluster. I keep thinking that Robin Hobb (currently reading and loving!) said Jon Snow would be her king, and she’s wicked smart. We can’t be wrong about this! (Right?)
So couldn’t we be able to tell if kit is coming back if he goes on vacation somewhere sunny and drastically cuts his hair? Isn’t it in his contract that he can’t be tan
Deesensfan,
No I agree with you. But thinking about who would take over for leading the wall, he might be a candidate I still prefer Jon.
I had a horrible night sleeping, or not sleeping last night. Not sure if it was one particular thing about the show, or if it was the whole feeling that it gave; not so much Mother Mercy as Pride before Fall, with no chance of redemption. Just very unsettling.
Just a few thoughts/replies/random rambling:
Jon: When I saw Return of the Jedi in the cinema, one of the ewoks (basically 4ft high teddy bears) is killed and all the small kids sitting near me started hyperventilating, lips wobbling etc asking their mums if the teddy bear was dead. Like all wise mums one near me said “don’t worry he’s only lying down for a rest, he’s just pretending”. And as Lulu’s Mum I’m offering that advice. Not the dead bit, the it’s all going to be ok one. Big deep breaths and hope for the best. A lot of things pointing to it all working out in the end, albeit with a possibly long period of waiting to know for certain. Personally I hope Wun Wun stomps all the FTWers to death, with Edd sitting on his shoulders directing him to where they are.
Loras hasn’t done a walk of shame because he hasn’t confessed, which Cersei did, and wasn’t caught in the act by the Sparrows, as the High Septon was. He’s due a trial.
Sand Smirks love it! It’s been mentioned that Dorne seems to be off kilter with everything else progression-wise and only seemed to be hitting what we would think of as mid-series stride 3-4 episodes later than expected. Perhaps everything becomes clear next series? Or it could just be a confusing load of what, wait, that doesn’t make any sense; what do I know?
EDIT: And ending on so many cliffhangers guarantees them a huge audience for the beginning of series 6, when everyone wants to know what happens to the end of the bits they’ve already seen, rather than a new series, new stories feeling.
EDIT EDIT: Ellaria probably could have drunk the antidote the second she was out of sight of anyone not involved in her plot, but I think doing it this way makes it totally clear to viewers what has happened. And a bit more dramatic with a few seconds of she’s bleeding is she sacrificing herself to kill Myrcella?
Honestly, I am feeling almost the same as I did when I completed ADwD. Empty, dark and frustrated. The only major difference is that after reading ADwD I was a bit more hopeful about Stannis, especially after the Theon TWoW chapter was released, and I was dreading the Brienne/Jaime cliffhangers in ADwD more. But the show has managed to effectively darken my outlook….again. In that sense, I applaud the showrunners for capturing that essence of this damned ominous Act II of ASoI&F.
Still, I will cling to the hope that this is indeed a song of Ice and Fire and their ultimate bond.
Deesensfan,
Jon Snow is dead,but Jon Targaryen will be born. 😀 I hope.
If it wasn’t for Mel at the Wall,I would believe that he is gone for good.From the books:he was man,wolf and man again.
I’m wondering about Kit though.I don’t want to see another actor taking his place or something.
dragonbringer,
Have dragon = am (very very very) strong
Geralt of Rivia,
good point…
another actor taking his place would suck even more.
i will have no connection with another actor.
Sorry if this was already asked, but last week several sites had a screen shot of Arya in her Lana “oysters, clams and cockels” outfit holding needle by where she hid it. Did they ever show that scene? I know I could not have missed it! She only wore that outfit in a couple scenes last week so not sure where that shot is from.
People was worried after every episode in this season (Sansa gate! SandSnakes gate! Boring gate!), but the show has more viewers than ever 🙂
https://watchersonthewall.com/ratings-intermezzo-total-viewership-already-reaching-last-years-record/
Wimsey,
Well they could ride horses to him since dany walked down from there
Hi, I don’t really post on here much, though I read it often.
I actually thought the episode was well-done – in past seasons, there have been lots of unresolved storylines lingering, and they were a bit better about wrapping some stuff up (especially given that almost nothing of substance happens in either of the last two books), though obviously the John thing is a big cliff-hanger. Unless he’s just dead, though that would seem to be odd decision-making on both his part and that of GRRM’s. Glad the Stannis arc is finally over with, thought they did well with the Arya plot, though that scene was a bit gory, and the FTW scene was done well. I still think the Daenerys storyline is going from one horribly tedious interlude (Mereen) to another horribly tedious interlude (whatever happens next) with only the odd exciting dragon stuff mixed in occasionally. I really hope by Season 6 she is actually in Westeros, because I feel like they could not drag her adventure out any further.
I’m not all that surprised that Kit and the showrunners are saying he’s completely dead – they don’t really have another option in promo-ing it. Assuming he is coming back, it would be a huge spoiler to drop on people when HBO is still surely hoping to get other viewers on the Game of Thrones bandwagon. I imagine if he is fully in Season 6 it’ll come out around the time it premiers, though it’s possible he’ll come back in Season 7 or something instead. But it would be fairly nonsensical for them to just come out and say “Oh, he’s not dead” or even “Is he? Watch and see!” so I don’t put much stock in them being so final about it at this point.
Agree on both counts.
With Melisandre back at the Wall, she is exactly where she needs to be. I’m just hoping that they don’t delay the “fooled you…he isn’t really dead-dead” reveal for too long. The final act of this story needs to move forward in a way that pulls everything together. If it is rushed, it will damage the overall narrative. And Jon is crucial to the final act.
Dorne…ugh! Doran has no plan or are they saving that reveal until next season? Meanwhile, we get Trystane on the small council waiting for Dany’s arrival. There were some odd choices made with this story line.
I’m out of patience with Ramsay and his never-ending line of successes. I was hoping for more of Roose this season. Assuming that Brienne finds Theon and Sansa in the snow, where do they go next? The Wall?
If the show was determined not to reveal Jon’s parentage and make it relevant, then why would there have been all of the setup in Season 5? The discussion about Eddard not being like that, about Lyanna being kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar, about Rhaegar really being a good guy, about Rhaegar giving the crown of blue roses to Lyanna at the tourney?
Balon01,
I have a feeling those numbers are going to dip drastically next year. Viewers are on the verge of becoming frustrated and desensitized with all the violence, rape and doom & gloom on the show. It hasn’t helped matters that D & D went over board this season by killing off characters who’re still alive in the books and raping Sansa.
Chad Brick,
I am unaware that this is one of her names. Is this one of those book “facts” like the ones you made up about the High Sparrow? If not, and it is in the books, then it is such an obscure fact that I can think that they did not know it.
Ginevra,
I agree with you
WHY does it need to take that long to reveal that
I really hope not.
Random Neural Firings and Questions:
* Who owns the ship Jaime and Bronn and Myrcella are on? If it’s a Dornish ship, and the fact that the heir of Dorne is on it, it might be, then Trystane is safe. If it’s just a regular shuttle, then he’s screwed. I really, really, really wanted Dorne to be good. Maybe next year.
* OK, I think Stannis is dead, but that jump-cut was weird. What’s also odd is that Sansa, Theon, Davos, Brienne and Pod are all within relative close distance of each other and all have a reason for finding Bran and Rickon. Will they join up? Work against each other? I am clueless on this and I am Sullied.
* Lena wins all the awards. Forever.
* Needs more Tommen and Margaery. The biggest mistake the show made is not Dornish, or Wallish or Meerenish. It’s Tommenish. They should have just left him a kid and made everything happen around him, for all the good he was aged up.
* At the risk of adding to the Violence-Against-Women theme, I am glad Myranda is dead and I hope she is burning in Hell.
* At let me just say — that is Theon Greyjoy, born a Kraken, raised a Wolf and heir to the Iron Islands. Reek is dead. There is no Reek. Welcome back, Then. And Alfie should win whatever awards Lena doesn’t get.
mariamb,
I’m sick of his success too.. They keep making it like he’s unbeatable.. The shot they showed overhead of him with a bunch of bodies around him and made it look like he killed them all himself was almost laughable to be
mariamb,
There is no way Trystane sniffs that Small Council. Not with a pissed-off Cersei and a Mountain Zombie to back her up.
It is far more likely that the ship turns around and Jaime and Bronn are prisoners of Dorne. Or that Trystane is shark food, once Jaime gets above decks.
Dandelion,
The numbers will be just as strong, if not stronger. Live it. Learn it. Love it.
Dandelion,
There is no evidence for this. Ratings went UP after at the end of the year. This season got the highest audience marks yet.
Now, I do worry that the audience might diminish if Jon does not come back early next season. However, I worried that the audience would not come back after Ned’s beheading or the Red Wedding. I think that this stuff might be a bigger issue for genre fans than for Cable TV series fans.
Wimsey,
We’ll see, maybe it’s a lot of hoopla because the episode is fresh on everyone’s minds but I have noticed a largely negative reaction. And not just from the the finale, viewers in general haven’t been please with the season as a whole.
We’re approaching six years now, there is only so much viewers can handle before they grow tired.
Apparently it’s an alias in the appendix of A Feast for Crows, one of them is “Mother Mercy”. I wouldn’t have known if I hadn’t gone digging.
Dandelion,
Let us be very clear. The “people stop watching cuz of rape or VAW” is something Jezebel, Mary Sue and Vanity Fair people tell each other at cocktail parties. It has no bearing in reality.
That is not saying I am condoning it or that I wish the show would a) tone it down or b) earn it a bit more before using it for shock value. I don’t think the Jezebel, Mary Sue and Vanity Fair people are necessarily WRONG to be upset about it.
They are just wrong in the belief that their Twitter feeds constitute what’s really going to happen.
Impressions on the fifth season are mixed.
I felt the pacing of this season was a real problem. Many of the scenes felt rushed, probably due to the factor that too many characters are now in play. No doubt, Dorne could have been better handled. (It still irks me that Weiss and Benioff never named Sunspear on the title sequence. Really? Why not just call Winterfell as “the North,” or Highgarden as “the Reach?”)
Parts of the story seems impossible to complete in just two remaining seasons. (If rumors of the show ending after two more seasons are to be believed, I have trouble not seeing pacing problems with what remains of A Song of Ice and Fire.) However, I have speculated below what I would like to see develop:
I would still like to witness the Battle of the Ice, hopefully with a resurrected Jon Stark replacing Stannis Baratheon. (I really want to see it play out like the Battle of Novgorod with Ramsey’s arrogance leading him to over commit his forces across the lake.) Winterfell will be laid to siege, and Roose Bolton will surrender and be executed.
In The Winds of Winter, however, I believe Stannis will win this victory, showing him to be the superior field commander that Martin is always so keen to reminds us. (The Boltons will be defeated, much like Asha Greyjoy was defeated by Stannis at the Battle of Deepwood Motte.) The sacrifice of Shireen will be necessary for the Lord of Light to resurrect Jon, but Jon will later join Stannis’ cause, now freed from his Night Watch’s vows, and will become the Warden of the North. (This fits with the fantasy genre troupe that the hero elevate himself to positions of worth through both honor and deed. It will also feel earned, and I believe Martin will give us this troupe.) However, I do believe Jon will never ascend any further in status. (Warden of the North is where he needs to be.) Stannis will kill Melisandre for executing his daughter without his permission. He will eventually return to Dragonstone (and to the South) to retrieve dragon glass for Jon Stark’s military campaign against the Others, and to deal with the Lannisters and Tyrells, and the returning Aegon Targaryen. The Lannisters and Tyrells will be defeated by the people and the Faith Militant, but Stannis will crush the Faith Militant (and all gods, as he feels bitter toward them for the death of his daughter.) Cersei will self-destruct, and go insane (probably due to the prophecy of the shrouds being fulfilled), and Jaime will execute her before taking his own life. Aegon and Jon Connington, however, will defeat Stannis and take the Iron Throne. Daenerys will break Meereen, but will be left scarred, so she will give up her rule to return to Braavos and “the house with the red door.” Varys will rule Essos in the show, and in the book he will serve as Hand of the King to Aegon. Tyrion will return to Casterly Rock.
These are broad strokes, of course, and do not factor in Arya, Sansa, Dorne, the Ironborn, or Randall Tarly and the Reach (including Sam and Brienne), but I believe that these factions could become supporting players into the larger scene.
I am more convinced than ever that Jon and Daenerys will never meet. Sam will end his story apart from Jon, and he really needs to do so, in order to find his courage. He will confront his father, and play a part in liberating the Reach.
WorfWWorfington,
One thing to temember: Trystane is genuinely in love with Myrcella. He will want revenge as much as Jaime. The issue is, will he blame Jaime as much as his aunt and cousins?
And, of course, Doran’s wrath might be potent: no third chances here!
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
Who the hell reads the appendices? It never looked like they got updated from Swords, anyway.
Lord sand,
She left the ring because she knows that she’s about to be taken. She left a “breadcrumb” in the hopes that someone is coming to look for her to make tracking her possible.
Wimsey,
Jon is different
I am an unsullied. The Ned thing was devastating, but I knew it had to happen for the show to be the show.
When the RW happened.. I was really really really hurt. But it didn’t even cross my mind that I wouldn’t enjoy the show without them.
Thinking about without Jon does not bode well with me. I don’t think I would enjoy it as much. Not gonna lie. I will probably still watch so I can see if he comes back. but if he doesn’t, I would be very disappointed and unimpressed. There are fans out there who probably haven’t that about the possibility of a resurrection.. those fans may not return. I don’t know.
The Benjen deception was a good hook for getting the Jon Snow finale rolling. Having made that decision, there was no question of not using the intro to do what the intro is designed to do, namely to remind less obsessive viewers of things that happened several episodes or (in this case) several seasons ago. It had nothing whatsoever to do with your own highly obscure perspective on the matter, which the producers of a show watched by tens of millions of people self-evidently couldn’t care less about.
Or as Wimsey rightly says: “What you really need to do is: get over yourself. They are not trolling you or any ‘us.’ You are incredibly naive if you think that they do.”
Unfortunately, Patchface was full of it.
That was quite possibly my favourite Game of Thrones episode ever! Great stuff!
So I bingewatched the season just before watching the last episode, which was a perfectly hopeless ending to the darkest season yet!
Heres my grading for the storylines throughout the season, also compared to earlier seasons:
Dany:
Season 1 – 10/10
Season 2 – 7/10
Season 3 – 9/19
Season 4 – 7/10
Season 5 – 8/10, Not her best storyline to date and I am really not interested in Dario who gets a lot of screentime. But I love Dany struggling, trying to rule and the parrallels between her and her father, the constant question (mad or not) being most relevant in this season. The Sons of the Harpy was a believable threat, her meeting up with Tyrion was epic and bodes so well for the future. The Barristian and Grey Worm versus Sons of the harpy was a very intense fight and a great scene and Daznak was a defining moment for her chraracter. And they ended it perfectly, that scene with drogon and then the khalasar was strangely poetic.
Arya:
Season 1 – 8/10
Season 2 – 9/10
Season 3 – 8/10
Season 4 – 9/10
Season 5 – 10/10, Yes, I find this to be the strongest season yet for Arya, who always has strong material. Her training-arc with the faceless men is dark, strange and beatiful. There is a fascinating paradox in that this is probably the first time she is actually safe, no ones gonna fuck with the faceless men. But the price is so heartbreaking as we slowly watch arya loose herself. The climax in Mother’s Mercy, when she has her Meryn Trant bloodbath, is Arya clinging on to the only thing that still make her Arya, her hate. And everything with meryn trant was surprisingly great in a deeply disturbing way. People complain that the arc was too slow. I dont even know what to say to that. I saw someone posting something like ‘No one wants to watch Arya wash corpses for 10 minutes. WTF! Come on man! if Arya is watching a corpse as part of her training, we need to see. It’s important for her. Her arc was perfection!
Jon/Nights watch:
Season 1: 7/10
Season 2: 7/10
Season 3: 8/10
Season 4: 9/10
Season 5: 10/10, Castle black was a huge focus this season and so much was going on. After a great season 4, where Jon grew a lot as a character, season 5 had a sence of doom and horror about it for Jon. It all started with The king beyond the wall dying for his beliefs and from then on it was about ideals and paying the price for them. I liked his choosing, which was handled with the right amount of emphasis, in my opinion. Hardhome was a so intense and creepy, and that final scene when Jon sees the word ‘traitor’ and realises he’s been betrayed. Jon’s best season yet!
Kings Landing/Cercei:
Season 1 – 9/10 (Neds investigations, Cerceis scheems):
Season 2 – 9/10 (Lannister siblings-rivalry, preperation for Blackwater)
Season 3 – 7/10 (Lannister vs. Tyrells)
Season 4 – 9/10 (Joffrey’s death and aftermath, Tyrions trial)
Season 5 – 9/10 (Cerceis rule, The sparrows)
Kings Landing is almost always one of the strongest arcs in any season. This time, we got Cercei’s best arc yet and had a powerhouse performance from heady. The sparrows were narratively such a great dramatic turn and terrifying as villains. I love how Game of Thrones does not care one bit for political correctness. I mean, the whole sparrow-arc, ending with that crushing walk (one of the sickest things I’ve ever seen) is a pretty direct critism of religion, right? Oh, and kudos to Anton Lesser for making Qyburn all kinds of weird.
Tyrion:
Season 1 – 9/10 (Travelling through Westeros, captive at The Eyrie, arrival at camp)
Season 2 – 9/10 (Being Hand, powerstruggle with Cercei, Battle of the Blackwater)
Season 3 – 6/10 (Being Master of Coin, Married to Sansa)
Season 4 – 10/10 (Imprisonment, trial, escape)
Season 5 – 9/10 (Travelling through Essos, captured by Jorah, meeting Dany)
It was very refreshing to get tyrion out of Kings Landing and I love how his s5 arc parrallels his s1 arc. He’s back to being depressed and more selfdestructive, which gives him that ‘nothing-to-love’-edge, which I think is Tyrion when he is most interesting. It’s so great to see him use his wit to wriggle himself out of danger. The sequence in Volantis was very atmospheric (with the slave-tattoos, the red pristess and the brothel), The sequence in Valyria wa both creepy and beautiful and that ending puts Tyrion in his right element. A great arc for him!
Sansa:
Season 1: 7/10 (Going to KL, Proposal to Joffrey, her dreams shattered)
Season 2: 8/10 (A captive at court, getting abused by joffreys men)
Season 3: 7/10 (Used as a pawn in the fight between lannisters and Tyrells)
Season 4: 8/10 (Escape from KL, hiding at the Eyrie, Lysas death)
Season 5: 8/10 (Betrayed by LF, Married to Ramsay, Horror, Horror, Horror, Jump)
Heartbreaking, disturbing and very dark. Sansas story in Game of Thrones is a Disney Princess nightmare, and in this season Sansa faces worse trials than ever. Her wedding night is one of the shows most accomplished scene, darkly beautiful,
Stannis:
Season 2 – 8/10 (Renly’s death, Battle for Blackwater)
Season 3 – 7/10 (Deprression and despair, further into Mels power, Kings blood)
Season 4 – 7/10 (Desperation, reach out to Iron Bank, Destroying the wildlings)
Season 5 – 10/10 (Recruting wildlings, marching on WF, sacrifices, abandoned)
This was Stannis best season! From the burning of mance to Stannis stumbling through the woods, bleeding from a hundred wounds, Dillane was the performance of the year! Lena Heady and Masie are close, but this year I’d go for Dillane. His final scene, in the snow, sitting by the tree, having lost everything. ‘Go on, do your duty!’
Jamie:
Season 3: 9/10 (Travelling, Broken down, saving Brienne)
season 4: 8/10 (Adjusting to being back, trying to be better man, sets Tyrion free)
Season 5: 8/10 (making omence, going to dorne, loosing myrcella)
Dorne itself was a bit weird, but there’s a great story in there for Jamie. his Bronn time were entertaining, I actually somewhat enjoy the sandsnakes, and that final scene with myrcellas took me by complete surprise. i aprreciate the b-movie/exploitation take they had on the Dorne storyline
So yeah, pretty much the best season yet 🙂 LEt me hear yours
Deesensfan,
While most of my issues with the For The Watch scene are do to the writing and lack of proper build up to it throughout the season and especially the complete lack of build up to it in this episode, the fact the scene was already hindered by being tacked on at the end and yet he still wanted to rush it and not let it “hang” just cements my dislikes for his directing choices. I did not like what he did with the RW either, there was nothing cinematic about it. Look at the way Alan Taylor directed Ned’s execution, that is how it is done.
Sergei Walankov,
I myself would love trolling overstuffed book readers who think that — a frankly overrated 4th and 5th book — are sacred texts.
BTW what in the blue hell was with that line Tyene said? That has got to be the most cringe worthy thing I have ever heard uttered on screen.
I believe you are unsullied (EDIT: confirmed by you) so have probably missed a lot of posts which were spoiler covered (don’t worry this isn’t a spoiler). I’m not a reader myself but as far as I can tell from others’ posts, the show is now in exactly the same place as the books re: Jon’s fate, but whereas readers have had this is-he-isn’t-he cliffhanger for about 4 years and still don’t know the outcome, you’ve only had this worry for less than 24 hours. I’m not trying to lessen your angst here, just trying to suggest (paraphrasing Theon) it somehow could be worse. The first of the books came out in the early 90s I believe and there are people who’ve been champing at the bit for resolution since then. Those of us who’ve only got into it since the tv show started have had it relatively easy 😉
Book readers feel free to correct me if my time estimates are wrong, but no need to be super rude about it, thank you. I know feelings are running high but please remember that constructive criticism is welcome, but calling some a total ******* idiot because they’ve misunderstood/misremembered something isn’t necessary. I thangkew 🙂
Exactly – I mean the fact that the Seven Faced God aspect “The Mother” is associated with compassion and mercy which Cersei was seeking was clearly such an obvious inference that it must have a wind up and meant something far more niche 😉
Somewhere I read the speculation that Jon Snow will come back, but he’ll be in the body of Stannis. This would explain why Mel always sees Stannis in the flames as the Lord of Light. Also, Kit would be honest by saying he’s done with the show. Not sure how this would be accomplished, given the distance between their corpses, timing, etc.
I personally found the character of Stannis utterly tragic, and I liked it so much.
I don’t like Stannis in the books nor in the show, but I think that if the final goal was to convey the dramma of a stubborn and self-righteous man who loses all, then they got it.
And at the end of the day, you come to pity him, you feel sorry for him, even if you somewhat hate him for what he did.
If the character in the book ha the same final tragic and doomed fate, then I’d say D&D nailed it in making us feel such a contrastant feeling for him.
WorfWWorfington,
Jaime is smart and observant, he will instantly remember Ellaria’s parting kiss and realize Trystane is innocent, there are several options.
1. Trystane had an antidote, and the ship continues.
2. Jaime convinces Trystane to continue, for all they know, a coup may be happening, remember Doran didn’t know about the necklace, so he doesn’t have the best intelligence network.
3. The ship turns around so they can bring the news to Doran.
4. Sand Snake coup, therefore Jaime/Trst/Bronn are arrested or they begin their own counter coup.
5. They tell Doran (no coup) but Ellaria and SS have fled or SS feign ignorance.
6. Dornish Civil War, apparently most of the people want war and therefore the Snakes have a ready made rebellion.
7. Jaime has Bronn jump ship and feign returning to Snakes because he is in love, so he can find out the guilty parties.
This is the first time GOT has left me drained. I was unsullied when Ned lost his head but as much as I loved him it was too early to feel drained. Loosing Jon however, after five seasons of being basically the most decent character in power, feels like hope has truly gone from that world. I feel like Jon felt watching the Night’s King raised the dead. Do I believe Jon is dead and gone? No but I’m not sure if that is just me clinging to irrational hope and refusing to see the truth or if, like I tell myself, I’m following logic. Logic tells me his arc is not yet done, though I hope his watch is. But right now, I feel unsettled.
On Stannis. I have doubts about his death as well. In the past, the show runners were never shy about showing us Brienne’s killings/fight outcomes in gory detail. She may not have killed the Hound but we know she tried and we saw her put her sword through many a belly. Why would D&D decide to use a match cut in this decisive scene and leave us hanging (sorry Selyse). Besides didn’t Stannis tell someone in some chapter that people may “even hear that I am dead”? And if we take Brienne’s character into account, we must remember that she believes in the chivalry side of knighthood, I don’t think Brienne could bring herself to kill an unarmed and defeated Stannis. Even worse, her revenge wouldn’t even feel right given that Stannis pretty much gave up. To top it all, Stannis told her to do her ‘duty’. What is Brienne’s duty? Sansa. She promised to kill Stannis but she swore an oath to both Cately and Jaime that she would find and protect the Stark girls. I think Brienne struck the tree trunk and she left Stannis to his own fate.
Wimsey,
My my, Wimsey, I can’t remember the last time I saw you so… perturbed. Is the darkness getting to you? 😉 Or are you solely worried about Jon? It is curious, though, that they didn’t go the book route and at least hint at warging. Maybe D&D really really really wanted the viewers to think that Jon’s gone. It may be a good decision, especially since the show hasn’t used fake deaths and undeaths to the same extent as the books (no LS, Mance, Davos, etc…)
WorfWWorfington,
I don’t know what to think about the Dorne story line. If the ship turns around, why would Jaime and Bronn become prisoners again? We’ve basically been there.
Trystane is Quentyn without the sea voyage and the BBQ. When Dany arrives in Westeros, he will be sent to her with with an alliance (support and marriage) to help restore her to the Iron Throne.
And yet, I feel no need to use “masculine” as an insult.
I would say you make men look bad, but you barely qualify for the part.
lol at Littlefinger leading any kind of army anywhere
Lords of the Vale won’t follow him, Sansa will disown him IMO
I rec trashed brothel etc is a sign that his days are numbered and soon coming to an end
I actually reckon Brienne takes Sansa back to the RL
Wimsey,
It is only ever given in the appendix, Wimsey, and then only of one novel. Obscure indeed. Page 836 of AFfC (Kindle) has LS’s nickname as “Mother Mercy” (LADY STONEHEART, a hooded woman, sometimes called MOTHER MERCY, THE SILENT SISTER, and THE HANGWOMAN) rather than “Mother’s Mercy,” and AWOIAF had her name as “Mother Merciless,” but that isn’t what my Kindle version says.
HS,
3. Injury was an acceptable risk compared to angry Ramsay
4. Ellaria is a moron
5. She did say she thought she always knew, so perhaps she was well past the disturbed-by-realization phase.
8. That’s what Dothraki do; ride around as a wandering horde. Khal Drogo wasn’t the only Dothraki leader – he was just the most notable.
WorfWWorfington,
I think that the general public didn’t like them much too. ADWD was at 3 stars on Amazon for a very, very long time. Just before its paperback mass market release, however, it saw an influx of 4-5 star one line reviews. It’s now sitting at 4 stars on the site.
We didn’t see Stannis die, no major character has perished w/o the viewers seeing them fall**, so…
1. He is dead and we see it in S6E1
2. Brienne decides she needs help rescuing Sansa, and either uses Stannis as bargaining or spared him on condition he helps rescue Sansa. After all even wounded you saw how badass Mannis is as a fighter, Brienne would have watched it all and two are better than one, well 2 1/2.
**Robert, Ned, Robb, Cat, Lysa, Renly, Drogo, Viserys, Ser Barristan, The Bear, Tywin, Oberyn, Joff and so on.
thremnir,
Beeeee cause Myrcella and Stannis aren’t #1 heartthrobs with the general fanbase?
It’s “Mother Merciless”, dammit – MerciLESS.
From http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Catelyn_Tully
Ginevra,
Wimsey,
I assumed they were going to leave the blind Arya arc
completely out, but maybe they just wanted to delay it
. Mel arriving at the Wall with Littlefinger’s jetpack seems orders of magnitude more significant.
Hopes and dreams and grumkins.
I just have to say that all of the “Stannis is alive” comments are really amusing me. Guys, it was a dramatic cutaway, meant to demonstrate inevitability while maintaining the pacing of the episode.
Stannis Baratheon is dead. I guarantee you Stephen Dillane is done on GoT.
One and the same!
Actually, it is also that last night’s episode was a complete buzz kill. I mean, it was great TV, don’t get me wrong. But it was not “fun” TV by any stretch.
There were some high points. I really liked Sansa and Theon taking each other by the hand and leaping together: the Sansa of 12 episodes ago would have had to be carried screaming over the precipice.
And I liked the way that Arya handled Trant. Finally! A Stark gets some revenge!
The Meereen scene was great: “My Valyrian is Nostril” was quite clever; Missandei’s correction even used a similar sounding word. But “Mostly, you talk” was great. And I like seeing Tyrion get all the way back: he is the de facto Hand of the Queen now.
In retrospect, now that I figured out what they were doing, I really liked Jaime being genuinely happy that his niece/daughter was truly in love. That felt real: and the callow solipsistic Jaime of Season 1 or 2 would never have done that.
And there was power in Melisandre’s unspoken but palpable realization: she didn’t just sacrifice Shireen on the pyre, she burned Stannis as well. Her “chosen one” was dead: and that meant that she had been very, very wrong in her interpretations. They did a great job of showing a woman shaken to her core there.
I liked Brienne actually fulfilling an oath instead of just talking about doing it.
And I knew that FTW was coming some time: but I had thought that they slipped when they said several months ago that Harrington was signed up through 7 seasons. I now really wonder if we were fooled.
Moreover, for all intents and purposes, he died in Episode 9. That is why Mel left him.
Dandelion,
It’s a good thing her dreadful accent made it nearly unintelligible.
Simeon,
They might be thinking to save the feline super-empathy for next year if the canine connection is going to be important then. People have complained about the show not having the latter, but the simple fact is that it has not been relevant to story or plot yet. GRRM said that this would be relevant, and although that does not mean that it will be relevant enough to be on TV, it does suggest that it becomes truly important next year or the year after. Having Blind Beth might work to set that up.
Some fans used to ponder how Tommen and Myrcella would react if they ever found out, but I was always like, how could they not know? The War of the Five Kings was all about their illegitimacy.
Ah, I did find “Mother Merciless” in the text, but my appendix definitely says, “Mother Mercy.” Here is what the text says, “Some call her that. Some call her other things. The Silent Sister. Mother Merciless. The Hangwoman.” — ADwD, p. 715
freoduwebbe,
That explains all these vapors I’ve been having.
No they are not.
Episode 7 – Imdb rating: 9.0
Episode 8 – Imdb rating: 9.9
Episode 9 – Imdb rating: 9.5
Episode 10 – Imdb rating: 9.1
These are really good numbers.
If Stannis actually died in the battle, that means he will have nothing to do with Shireen’s death in the books. This confirms that last week scene was added just for shock value, and nothing more.
It also gives more force to those saying they just name GRRM in the “inside the episode” last week just to cover their asses, and that scene has nothing to do with TWOW.
That conclusion in no way follows from your premise: the shock was the burning, not Stannis’s complicity. The opposite was confirmed: Shireen’s burning killed Stannis inside and disintegrated his army. This in turn directly leads to his army’s route, his death and the termination of a plotline that has been going for 4 seasons.
So, the “it was shock value only” got completely obliterated.
Davos’ Luck,
the interview of Kit sounded really definite, do you think he is lieing, it sounded really honest. He even had this “dead talk” with D&D, it sounds like he is dead for really, maybe his fate those actually differ on the show than what will happen in the books.
I think I am done if he is dead for real.
This is an example of a fan being completely obsessed about one specific aspect of a story and then being amazed that every other fan is not equally obsessed about that same specific aspect. I’ve read the 5 books twice and I never picked up on this supposedly important fact. It’s something from an appendix, i.e. about as important to the overall story as the fourth son of some minor house in the Reach.
D&D are not trolling about this. Fans are trolling themselves by trying to find a tiny sliver of whatever they want to find wherever they can, and then being shocked that that tiny sliver was something they imagined themselves.
My ePub and paperback version also says “Mother Mercy”.
This is the thing for the Stannis superfans, however. They really don’t care that Shireen burned. They *only* care that this burning sullied the immaculate image of the Holy Stannis.
Jesus, there are a bunch of whiny a-holes on this site, people that apparently literally think that every single step a character makes needs to be drawn out for them so that they understand. Too many people here can’t see the forest because of the trees of their own making.
I was not a fan of leaving Jon’s death a cliffhanger, but the episode was still fantastic. I’ll still come here for casting news and such, but you guys are really taking the enjoyment out of the show.
Anyone know where Tormund and the hated wildlings (and giant) are now?
taim,
I refuse to believe that,but never say never.I will be majorly pissed,if that’s the truth.Only Dany and Arya left right now.
Teher are rumour that Kit wanted out of the series,but that sounds like total nonsense.Popular show,great money.
Am I the only one who still thinks that Stannis will win the Battle of Ice in the books? I mean it appears that he’s going to lose because he’s starving and outnumbered but he’s setting a trap for the Freys and Boltona on the lake so it looks like he’s going to wipe out a big chunk of their force
The viewers hate GoT so much that the show breaks another record 🙂
The season finale of Game of Thrones has set a new piracy record, with 1.5 million downloads in eight hours, a number that will swell to over 10 million during the days to come.
https://torrentfreak.com/game-of-thrones-season-finale-breaks-piracy-record-150615/
Arya Havin’ a Larf,
My paperback has the correct version. If there’s some crazy misprint out there, I apologize for my exasperation!
“Mother Merciless” actually makes more sense. Mine are the UK editions so maybe these are different to others?
He could win the battle and yet lose in other ways…that would be a GRRM trick. Victories in ASoI&F usually come at a cost.
And yet the “previously on” segments are intelligence-insulting and condescending!
The only one? No. However, far fewer people think that now than did 24 hours ago.
Thank you. This, exactly this.
This media campaign for confirming Jon’s dead-ness seems to be trying a little too hard, or maybe that’s just what I want to believe.
And notice they all seem to be saying, “JON SNOW is dead.”
Which is kind of the whole point when it comes to many of the theories about him…
Just because Jon Snow is for reals dead, doesn’t mean that Kit Harrington as
are out of the question.
The way I’m starting to view the burning of Shireen & Stannis arcs, her death was not for nothing. He thought he was burning her as the ultimate sacrifice to save his cause, to force his victory, when the very act of burning her ensured his defeat. Half his forces fled with all his horse because he burned his daughter alive. The kinslayer is accursed. His action and her death made sure his defeat.
This has to happen in some form in some way for all involved. His claim is a distraction from the real war to come. Melisandre has to realize she was wrong (which I think is why she left). The wheel is breaking even before Dany lands on their shores, houses dying, lineages devouring themselves.
If there is a moral anywhere in this series, it seems to be that one must be malleable–those who do not bend, break (Ned, Stannis, Robb, etc.). Humans are murky creatures, and is it not humanity for which the ultimate battle is fought?
The Others are ice, cold, calculating. Dragons are all impulse and instinct, fire. Humanity is caught between the two, a combination of both. “Good” and “evil” are often extremes of their opposites–in the desperate attempt to do “good,” one commits “evil” (Stannis/Shireen, FTW). This series has been full of people thinking they are doing good by doing horrible things; perhaps humanity needs to find itself again, or let the Others have ’em.
Sorry, end rambling!
Cumsprite,
Is it horrible that whenever I see your name, my mind thinks, “Sprite of cum!”?
lol
You should read Oglaf. Start from the beginning of the series. NSFW.
That’s absolutely why she left. She suddenly realized that all she thought she had seen in the flames was false, or rather it might be true, but not in the way she thought it was, and certainly not for Stannis. If a leech full of blood could kill a false king, burning a king’s heir should have ensured victory. When things deteriorated even more rapidly, it suddenly dawned on her that she was completely wrong about everything she had believed. Look at how shell-shocked she was when seeing Davos again – a complete reversal from her usual self-assured and over-confident demeanor.
Danny,
Thats pretty much how I feel. And I think, as a sullied, my expectations were such that I assumed (silly me) that after long years of waiting, we’d get the answer that George has never given in the next book. So now we are again left hanging, without much hope.
I love reading good stories, and I am not a stranger to tragedies. What I can’t stand are the stories that are never ending tales of woe. Draining is a good word for it. Not a happy ending, but a sense that the story is worth telling. The way this has been left hanging, Im not sure it is now. Could be wrong time will tell.
Alex Stroup,
the pink letter happens after the battle ..
the chapters are not chronological in order .,.
so he is dead and mance is dead
Only way to know if it was worth telling is after it’s told. No story will seem satisfying if you leave off in the middle somewhere.
Simeon,
True. Tho sometimes I just as soon toss the book against the wall and not waste any more time on it. But I’ll more than likely keep watching and not give it up. Probably need a good nights sleep and some time outside for a while to shake this.
I for one don’t like the suggestions/predictions that Jon (or whatever he becomes) will be absent until the very end of season 6 or beginning of season 7. The “largest army the World has ever seen” is on the other side of the Wall. There isn’t that much of the series left… They have to get things rolling. They can’t ignore Castle Black for a season and nobody wants to watch no-shoulders Thorne instead of a major character on the show. They have to deal with Jon’s story right away. This is JON, not a secondary, sub-major character. Whatever becomes of him should happen in the first couple episodes of next season.
My biggest problem with the Shireen scene was how contrived it seemed with Ramsay burning all the supplies. However, the fact that they used the sacrifice of Shireen to basically be a catalyst for Selyses suicide and Stannises defeat was an excellent and ballsy carrying of his arc to its end, right up to Brienne killing him.
bostondave,
Newsfuckingflash: you’re an idiot. And a sexist one.
BostonDave,
You’re a pig, and a bastard, and a daughterfucking wildling.
Concerning Jon, when Kit said he wasn’t returning to the show, if Mel performs some ritual at his bonfire (come on, that’s the only reason she would be placed there), could Jon resurrect as a Targ, with silver hair and all, and therefore a new actor would be playing that part. Similarly, none of the Apostles could recognize Jesus save for the nail holes, perhaps the new actor would retain Jon’s facial scar and of course Ghost.
If they go this route which actor would play the perfect PtwP Targ?
I didn’t get much sleep last night. I think I need to just get away from thinking about this series for a while, but it is sure to be a happening next couple of months. Argh! Why do you do this to me, George/D&D? I am facing the realization that a story I have followed for a decade may be completely ruined for me. I can’t imagine what it must be like for those people who have been reading since AGOT was first released. Jon has been my favorite character from the very moment he gave Needle to Arya. If his story is finished, I just don’t think I would be able to enjoy the series anymore. I’ll still watch/read, but it will be completely perfunctory, only as a matter of getting closure to the series I’ve spent a decade with.
by the way, I thought there were pictures of Arya getting needle out from under the rocks. Odd that they would cut that, but I guess she didn’t use needle.
I see why Sansa didn’t stab someone since that’s what Arya was going to do. Of course, she does that every season.
The last nail in the coffin was Hardhome. We were constantly reminded of that. D&D want the Battle of Snows to happen. Brienne & Pod must catch up with Sansa & Theon so they can escape on horseback. Maybe they hide at the inn with that Northern dude.
Ramsey finds Myranda dead. He can’t find Sansa at Winterfell, but he finds the candle in the window of the Broken Tower. He assumes Jon is her friend in the North and pens the Pink Letter.
Jon gets kissed back to life by Mel. Davos smuggles Jon out of Castle Black and intercepts the letter. They run straight for Tormund.
Brienne, Pod, Sansa & Theon get captured by Wildlings on their way to the Wall. Sansa tells them she’s Jon’s sister. She is taken to Tormund. Her red hair reminds him of Ygritte & everyone loves her.
Jon & Sansa reunite. When he learns what Ramsey did to her, he will rain Wildlings down on that bastard’s head.
Once Winterfell is taken, Davos will be sent to find Rickon & gather the Northern Lords against the Krakens. Brienne will be sent to find Arya and find the Hound instead. Before she can catch the first boat to Braavos, she is captured by the BWB. LSH tries to hang Brienne & Pod but Brienne agrees to deliver Jaime while Pod is taken hostage.
Brienne will convince Jaime she can save his honor by saving Sansa. She will break both of their hearts in the process. Jaime will Nissa Nissa LSH with Widow’s Wail and AA will be born.
Is it possible that Melisandre uses a glamour spell to mask the true identity of the ‘person’ being stabbed at the end of that show. Melisandre arrives at Winterfell in time, leaving Stannis in haste, not because she is wrong about Stannis but because she has a vision of Jon being in danger? She appears tired, which is a sign she using her glamour magic. This would follow along the same Rattleshirt/Mance identity switch in the books. This would make a more interesting storyline for Jon, a resurrected Jon is a little creepy, like Beric and Lady Stoneheart. Thoughts?
Davos’ face killed me more than half of the deaths.
*takes deep breath*
FrankenGregor looked like C3P0 on roids. There, I said it and I’m not sorry. (“Reporting for duty, my Queen!” *bows awkwardly at waist*) Armour looked like aluminum, and his eyes looked like when I try using eyeliner.
My memory of that story is a little different. It was one apostle who demanded the stigmata as proof that this was who he claimed to be. Many people use it as a parable for the importance of accepting things on blind faith. Other people see it as a statistical argument that if you put a dozen people in a room, then one of them will ask an intelligent question.
Rygritte,
Wow that’s some nice theory crafting! Though I see some logic flaws I admire your imagination.
Why would Ramsay asume Sansa’s savior was Jon?
Why would Brienne go looking for Arya when she already refused her help?
I think you misunderstood what I meant with “last nail in the coffin”.
But I mean, there wasn’t a believable excuse to kill him. There were no reports of wilding trouble south of the wall, and I get they can’t forget the brothers who died fighting the wildlings, but I was hoping to see Thorne or other highranking members approach this matter with logic. Specially after the Hardhome Massacre.
I asked the same thing up above! Last week there was a still of Arya in her “Lanna” outfit with needle in her hand near where she hid it. What the heck was that all about?
Ramsey already assumed Jon was her friend in the North. That’s why he brought Jon up when he confronted Sansa about her plan to escape.
I guess Davos wouldn’t intercept the letter if it is sent by raven. Maybe he finds it at Castle Black.
Brienne would go looking for Arya if Sansa asked. She has pledged her sword to her after all.
The show provided many excuses to kill him.
What makes you think that Thorne or the others believed what they were told about the Hardhome Massacre? Wouldn’t that be the sort of story that traitors would concoct?
Look back three weeks ago here. People went from asking “was the second handsome young man Lancel?” to talking themselves into being sure that it was somebody else. Now, imagine that they had some axe to grind with the idea that it was Lancel: think of how much easier it would be for posters to convince themselves that it wasn’t Lancel than it already was.
It is the same thing here. It would have taken very little time for the NW men who (as Bowen Marsh states in the book) consider letting the Wildlings through to be flatout treason to magnify and focus each other’s feelings. This would have been further amplified by NWMen who stayed at the Castle but lost friends at Hardhome.
I agreee. I think DD are “giving” some deeds performed in the books by other people to Jon to give him more action.
In the 5 books he uses Longclaw in battle only 3 times!!? and all 3 times are minor skirmishes.
Jon is suppesed to be Luke Skywalker of GOT and yet George gives him no action, so DD have to make it up for him.
My Kindle version was published through the US Amazon site, although it only says “Kindle Edition,” but I guess “Random House” tells that it’s American: “MOTHER MERCY”
Martin, George R.R. (2005-11-08). A Feast for Crows (A Song of Ice and Fire, Book 4) (p. 836). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
I always figured it was a typo, especially when seeing “Mother Merciless” within the text part. Apparently no one proofs the appendix, either.
I am going to take a stand right now and say HUZZAH for ambiguity!
The situation with Jon reminds me of Star Trek Into Darkness and the death scene with Kirk. It was presented as an actual death, no cheating about it, until Bones discovered that Khan’s super-DNA could revive Kirk. Kirk’s body was put into a cryogenic tube until the blood transfer could be done.
It’s possible
As other commenters said, I really like the core group that’s now assembled in Mereen: Dany, Tyrion, Jorah, Daario (I’ll assume he’s on Dany’s side until proven otherwise), Missandei, Grey Worm, Varys and the dragons. They are the most well-meshed, united group as we’ve seen in the show. But, I won’t get too comfortable with the feeling.
And my ePub is HarperVoyager published in 2012, a golden goblet on the cover, with British spellings so we have definitely have two editions with the “Mother Mercy” error.
Can someone verify something with the Dany/Dothraki scene, I have replayed it several times and I hear them saying Khalessi, over and over, just in the close up, when the camera pans out, no, but it sure sounded like it. If correct their scouts spotted Drogon flying with her and have been tracking them, and of course only one woman controls dragons, which is why thousands are there, to greet her.
Wimsey,
It was Thomas who couldn’t believe it was really Jesus. Thus, the phrase “doubting Thomas.”
Oh GRRM, you do know how to troll us.
Wimsey,
I’m sorry, I didn’t understand your second paragraph.
I know, of course they would doubt him, but what about the other 10-15 brothers that went with him. We know some of them survived, why would Alliser doubt the rest of the crew that went to Hardhome? Where was Edd?
Flora Linden, Dany will leave the rule of Meereen to Mr. and Mrs. Grey Worm.
Daeron,
Why would Daario kill Jorah. People always say that but Daario is a very confident man. He has shown no aggression towards Jorah at all. He actually teases him because he has a sense of humor (like in the books) and Jorah is so easy to goad (Jorah has shown 0 sense of humor). There is no reason at all to think that Daario would feel a need to kill Jorah, except in self defense if Jorah tries to give him greyscale. Since it would do no good to tell anyone you have greyscale, that’s not likely. The show has painted these two characters as having a shared love of Dany and not in competition with each other – in spite of their individual love for her. And either one of them killing the other simply would not improve their position with Dany. Both are smart men and are very well aware of that. It may be a love triangle of sorts, but its one based on loyalty and admiration of Dany.
KG,
Yes, I know. (The first time that my Catholic parents tried to make be get confirmed, I chose Thomas as that name and announced that was why. They were not amused….. :D)
Well-said. My feelings exactly about the character of Stannis. I didn’t like him when he lived, and I thought he was a horrible thing for Westeros (5 Kings’ War and all that) but his end was completely tragic. And he brought that tragedy upon himself, since everything unravelled rapidly when he did what no parent should ever do.
And how the hell are they gonna find the ring?? I drop one in my living room and is gone lol
Because people believe what they want to believe. So, they would have no problem convincing themselves that those NW men (who were volunteers and thus likely known to be loyal to Jon) fabricated the story. They would pick it apart: every variation in detail from different surviving rangers would used as “proof” that it was all made up. It would be like climate change denialists: the fact that different models make different predictions about how quickly climate is changing is used as “proof” that they are all wrong, even though all of the models show that climate is changing. Alliser and the others are denialists who want to believe that Jon is at best overly sympathetic with the Real Enemy and at worst One of Them.
Ultimately, many of the men in the Night’s Watch will never truly accept that anyone other than the Wildlings are the True Enemy. That was the issue in the books: even the ones who accepted that the White Walkers were a real threat couldn’t get the idea out of their head that the Wildlings were as big as a (or an even bigger) threat. Again, there is more than enough historical precedence for similar behavior in real people: many a conqueror has won because native populations put higher priority on wiping out their traditional enemies than uniting against a new and much more deadly one.
Valyrian jewelry, of course. It’s like Lothlorien jewelry: you cannot miss it.
Well for those readers who didn’t know, then 😀
Gwen Christie just appeared on Thronecast and confirmed his death. They were joking about her giving Stannis a close haircut; reminded me a bit of Toby Turner’s ‘literal’ parody of the Skyrim trailer. What laughs.
Someone’s bombing Ep 10 ratings hard. It’s plummeting by the hour, which doesn’t usually happen once there are a couple thousand votes.
Mr Fixit,
Wow, 8.8/10!
Im shocked.
Very clear homage to Rome that last scene. Jon Snow’s not gone fellas, don’t worry.
Healing from a knife in the heart? Really?
i still cannot recover from the fact that season is over. what a depression!!……. and please people have respect for evryone who contributes in this miraculus show. everything is amazing even the parts we would not choose. why so much problem with dorn guys? the girls were great.why meeren should be better?beacuse some people there wearing masks???every character in the series is gorgeous and VERY WELL PLAYED! personally, after ned stark and kal drogo died and in such a vain, i am used to deaths!! who ever has any problem just dont watch it, nobody forces you. also i belive we are all so in love with GOT not only beacuse is so interesting story with excelent creators and actors, but also beacuse maybe a fairytale but based on reality of life, human behavior and contains so many extreme situations and feelings that many of us have experienced in one or another way.just not with these beautifull costumes! dont know what will hapen i only know that one year is like eternity……
Am I the only one so excited by the team Tyrion/Varys (and soon Dany)???
Yup. And not long ago it was 9.4. These things usually stabilise after a short while, but it’s almost as if there’s a concerted effort to bring the score down.
Mr Fixit,
Well, I have to say I have spoken with many casual viewers of the show who do not over analyze like I do (and I haven’t even read the books) are they were UNIMPRESSED by the ending.. way way more than the red wedding.
but you think someone is doing that on purpose.
The meltdown among the book purists at westeros.org (but not only there) is HILARIOUS. They look like fanatics reacting to the depiction of Jesus or Muhammad in a movie.
Game of thrones is a fiction, for god’s sake! It’s not the holy bible, changing things is not blasphemy. Plus, you don’t even know if the things you criticize in the show are not in the books…
And she doesn’t have to be! It’s almost as if the only way for Sansa to catch a break is if she goes all stabby Stark on someone or becomes some manipulative Littlefinger clone. No thanks. Sansa survives, in book-verse at least, using her courtesy as armor. She goes from being a disillusioned girl to a young woman with the inner strength to endure. The build up before this season almost made it feel like we will see her learning from Littlefinger how to put her own skills to work, albeit reluctantly. I am still smarting a bit from the wedding night but its like the victim is all the writers could muster for her. There are moments when she asserts herself, like the end of the finale and she stood up to Myranda and decided to take the leap with Theon but this season of Sansa has been far different then I expected when all the pre-premier press started.
KG,
Thomas doubted that the man before him was really Jesus even after being told. Less a matter of recognition than belief is the way it’s presented. It wasn’t until Thomas felt the holes that he believed. And then the text says something like, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. However, this all happens after Jesus was traveling down the road to Emmaus with two disciples who were prevented from recognizing him (Cleopas and another unnamed disciple, Luke 24:13-16).
True! “Mother’s Mercy” is at 8.8 and falling. I have never seen it plummet that fast. I know it started at 9.1 this morning. Then again, I don’t usually watch it so closely.
I’m super-excited about that storyline, for the first time ever. I’m also excited to see where Blind!Arya’s path will lead, and I’m looking forward to Sansa and Theon.
There are trolls in the dungeon! A total of 1251 people have rated the episode a “1.” 1!!!!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3866862/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt
Should we start a campaign to try to reverse these effects? When the show should be 9 point summat, these numbers are harder to undo than do, but I’m giving her my 10.
Hartvig,
Season 5 had worse source material. It’s as simple as that.
And on the whole, they did well with what they were working with.
Ginevra,
Yes, I was simplifying, since we aren’t here to talk religion 🙂
The 1/10 ratings are probably all from disgruntled Stannis fans, book purists who hate the show anyway, and maybe a few Unsullied who are grief-stricken over For the Watch. It was still a good episode no matter what IMDb rating it has.
Ginevra,
But that’s not trolling. That’s just angry people.
Moka,
Some of those people seriously need professional help. Starting with the site founders.
Ignore them. You’ll just hate yourself if you don’t.
Lex,
My sentiments echo yours, this season proved dark in mood and excellently
done.There were so many clear references to ASOIAF, that I lost my indifference to whether the production was book or televised version.
My anxieties peaked when Danerys rode Drogon towards the grass sea, Stannis’s March to Winterfell ( however polarising his bid for the throne may be to some ) and finally Reek fleeing his prison.
I was surprised of the early reveals, including Cersei’s “walk of shame”
and ” Jon’s betrayal”, yet all played well with the showrunner’s scope of vision. The next season will reintroduce a few characters, as some exited for good.
As much as the Hardhomme scenes proved awesome to view and ranked high on my watch meter, the odd pacing of the attack scenes were
awkward. I still don’t know what to make of the “Ice King “. Overall it was close to a cinematic experience.
On a lighter note; Tyrion’s bromance continues on for some much needed wit.
RIP, maester Aemon, Shireen, Stannis, and for Direwolves lost.
Pau,
I think Jorah wears a portable metal detector in his pouch. Perhaps a way to find his misplaced sword ( similar to key finder ). Bad news if the batteries are dead ( :
If all else fails, Drogon will discern the whereabouts of the ring once he gets over his indigestion issues.
Aha !
Tyrion Pimpslap,
Trust GRRM to make the read far more interesting than blips on the video screen ( :
Daniellica,
No ramble you gave, it speaks true.
Here’s a link to a webpage that has that photo of Arya in her Lana clothes at the site where she hid Needle. She even has her tray of seafood wares resting on top of the rocks.
http://metro.co.uk/2015/06/14/24-questions-we-want-answered-in-the-game-of-thrones-finale-5240116/
I think the reason we didn’t see Ghost with Jon is because it wasn’t Jon who was killed. Melissandre created a glamour and it was really Edd who was killed. Anybody agree??? I’m desperate-can’t stand the thought of Jon Snow actually gone……..sob.
With regards to Dany’s ring and miracle tracking – so it’s not possible that Daario and Jorah come across hundreds of hoof marks all leading into towards one small spot where…oh look at that…
Or it was Mel herself…. guilt over being wrong about Stannis. Just seemed odd… Jon’s face as he was reading the messages… like a “blanked out” look…… ????? Probably wishful thinking, but hey, what else have we got to do? LOL
Laura,
Not bananas, I thought it had a similar feel as well!
Daniellica,
Love this ramble 🙂
lol, I’m ridiculously falling for Show Daario.
I get you now, Dany gurrl.
probably in Asshai by now
Everybody is rooting for Jon, looking for a missing Targaryen. While Jon has nothing common in his person (i don’t care about hair) with any Targaryen seen or told about. He is plain and trustful as all Starks. Trust kills and rapes.
I will praise Mannis a bit. Probably they killed Stannis, cause he’s too expensive. He is one of couple of guys in Westeros still playing the game of thrones (it’s name of the show, no?) and he does it by commanding the armies. The same reason, they’re killing every possible master in cities of Essos, starting from Qarth. In order not to show the full scale warfare against Daenerys, it’s a sideline.
The storyline that Stannis bet everything on Melisandra, howD&D said about his belief in magic, and sacrifice his only heir to melt snow, is a bullshit of course. He is a cold-blooded calculating general. With no room for things like dispair and hope. His soldiers believe in any shit, not him. It’s just another tv-story about how bad to be a zealot.
Stannis believes in no gods. He relies only on his ability to manage. He uses Melisandra and this cult like he uses Davos, any knight, any ship, anything or anybody in his only business. Ruling. In his logic he’s the king (or lord before death of his brother), so everybody around should serve their duty. He’s an almost Machiavelian type of ruler: smart, just, effective in using everything he can find at his service. And that’s what should kill him. He shouldn’t die like hound!
Dorne story is too stupid to watch, but Doran looks likes smartass. Maybe he’ll plot something next year. I see this line served only to keep Bron and cripled lion on salary.
Varys in Meereen doesn’t worth loosing great scene of him killing Kevan Lannister. Go back, bold man, do your duty!
PS Arya looks quite plump for a girl who had travelled a year around land devastated by war and now lives in a temple.
Staggered,
Stannis’ fall was shocking in its speed and totality. I was sad to see him go like he did, despite what he had done over the years. An anticlimactic end for a proud man with nothing left.
Arya is tiny, she just has a round shaped face.
I see that they’ve already filmed a scene involving the Jorah/Daario road trip:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oC9fuWiIWEo/maxresdefault.jpg
The Bastard,
Try GoT reviews in The Guardian