Another annually celebrated tomfoolerish day in our journey through the realms of time, and the powers have once again handed the keys to the kingdom to the resident village idiot. How appropriate.
Today we travel back through the annals to relive Episode 8 of Season 3 and to rediscover the chauvinistic, the espoused, the misbegotten, the lover and the slayer.
Take your clothes off and come sit in Oz’s lap, and I may let you peruse the memory lane for the Second Sons…
Second Sons originally aired on May 19, 2013 and is the 28th episode. It was written by buffet procurers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss. The episode was directed by Michelle MacLaren (The Bear and the Maiden Fair, Oathkeeper, First of His Name). To date, Michelle has been the only female director for any episode of Game of Thrones.
The duo that sparked Disney’s Game of Thrones spinoff The Stark and the Hound start us off with a potential head-stoning case that would have been quite story-altering had the deed been carried out. But the Hound warns Arya against the act and she reconsiders only to learn that her captor intends to take her to meet her mother and brother at the Twins. And we all know how that ended up.
Dany is introduced to the Second Sons by Jorah and the Jedi, where her first encounter with the Titan’s Bastard transpires into comedy gold with the vulgar remarks of Mero (portrayed perfectly by Mark Killeen). Dany’s proposal to the Sons is discarded and they in turn make a plan to sneak into her camp and kill her during the night. Daario v.1 draws the lucky coin.
Gendry arrives at Dragonstone to be sacrificed for the Lord of Light while Davos learns to read in the dungeon. Stannis goes to consult Davos about the upcoming sacrifice of Gendry and agrees to free Davos so long as he promises to never again raise a hand to Mel.
Later, Gendry would be semi cock-teased by naked Red only to be strapped to the headboard and experience the mother of all buzzkills by way of leech. Three of them to be exact… and Stannis whistled and shouted and called them by name… usurper Robb, usurper Joffrey, usurper Balon Greyjoy!
Marg and Cersei bond at the wedding pregame giving viewers a quick history of the origin of “The Rains of Castamere,” essentially telling her and the Tyrells not to fuck with the Lannisters (or to call her “sister”).
Sansa would find that her first shot at nuptials would be anything but idealistic (and yet, a hell of a lot better than her second attempt).
Tyrion and Sansa wed and we the viewer would suffer (for what would seem like the longest scene in GoT history) through drunken Tyrion’s suffering at the hands of Joffrey at his own reception.
Tyrion ends up threatening Joffrey, which Tywin would defuse blaming the escalation on Tyrion’s drunkenness.
Later, Tyrion comforts Sansa and lets her know that he will not consummate the marriage without her approval and “the God of Tits and Wine” proceeds to pass out. The next morning, Shae pulls back the sheets to find no evidence and promptly leaves the room with a smile.
Opportunistic Daario v.1 would find his way into the makeshift Dragon Spa to find Dany letting Calgon take her away. The lover + fighter would present her with his sword and a gift containing two heads in a duffel bag as proof of his loyalty.
Finally, the crows gather on the Weirwood above where the retreating Sam and Gilly discuss baby names and fire-starting methods. As the crows become louder, a Walker approaches for the unnamed child. In a panic, Sam the coward inconceivably becomes Sam the Slayer.
Personal Awards
Favorite Quotes
“Take your clothes off and come sit on Mero’s lap, and I may give you my second sons.” -Mero
“Ser Barristan… when it comes to battle, kill that one first.” -Dany
“The darkness will devour them all she says. The night that never ends, unless I triumph. I never asked for this, no more than I asked to be King. We do not choose our destiny. We must do our duty, no? Great or small we must do our duty.” -Stannis
“You’re not a man that slaughters innocents for gain or glory.” -Davos to Stannis (Wow.)
“If you ever call me sister again, I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.” -Cersei
“Please don’t name him Randyll.” -Samwell Tarly
“There you have it! Nothing to worry about! Drinking and lust… no man can match me in these things! I am the God of tits and wine! I shall build a shrine to myself, at the next brothel I visit!” -Tyrion
“I suppose it doesn’t really matter which Lannister puts the baby into you. Maybe I’ll pay you a visit after my uncle passes out. How’d you like that? You wouldn’t? Well, that’s all right. Ser Meryn and Ser Boros will hold you down.” -Joffrey (such a little shit)
First sightings: Daario Naharis (Ed Skrein version), Mero (Mark Killeen), Prendahl na Ghezn (Ramon Tikaram), and the High Septon (Paul Bentley).
Deaths: Mero (who totally deserved an on-screen death, if not another episode or two), Prendahl na Ghezn, and a white walker.
Other Firsts: Although Randyll Tarly’s name had been mentioned in earlier episodes, this is the first time that Randyll is directly identified as Sam’s father.
After finding dragonglass in Season 2’s “The Prince of Winterfell,” it is the first time its significance is revealed to the viewer.
One of the big discussions following the episode was why Sam left the dragonglass behind that he used to kill the white walker. Maybe it was for this Beautiful Death:
Couple of pointless tidbits…
Found this E!Online piece where Ed Skrein talks about the reason he left Game of Thrones in multiple interviews. Honestly, there is really no direct reason mentioned other than “politics in the industry” and that the most important thing in his life is his family. Maybe he was trying to further his rapping career?
And I’m leaving this here just because my sick mind thinks it’s hilarious. I’m hoping for a new one after the end of S6. WARNING: It contains spoilers from an event that takes place in tomorrow’s Memory Lane!
That’s it for me today, oh great and loyal fanboys and girls. A man shall return in the not so distant future.
Tune in tomorrow for another joyous Westerosi wedding occassion.
Until then, you can find me here on twitter, and may there always be peace in your realm.
-Oz
“Unbowed. Unbent. Unsullied.”
Hodor!
Hodor
Edit: Bugger 🙂
Never liked this Daario. Glad he was recast, the new one is much better.
This was an all-around outstanding episode.
I loved the whole Tyrion/Sansa wedding feast, the beats with Tywin and the Tyrells, etc. I saw someone do a breakdown once of the camerawork involved in the sequence, it was actually amazing (I never even noticed; the way the camera jumps around you think Sansa is looking at the Tyrells or the Tyrells at Tywin, but it’s all misdirection).
The intro of the Second Sons was also great. Not just how it was done, but I loved seeing that other aspect of the storyverse open up; that there are sellsword companies which are entire private armies for hire (major running background element in many Essos scenes in novels).
“One of the big discussions following the episode was why Sam left the dragonglass behind that he used to kill the white walker.”
Oh I was worried about that too, but two episodes from now they have Sam reveal that he simply has *multiple* dragonglass blades on him (in the TV version). In which case it actually made more sense to me that he wouldn’t stick around to try to recover the one he used, for fear of more white walkers or wights coming – he had other ones.
I actually thought merging Gendry with Edric Storm was a good idea; I just hoped they’d have tacked on a scene saying “he’s back with the Brotherhood” – but given that we’ve had no mention of them either….
Also, Sam the Slayer.
More quotes
Davos to Stannis:
That question seems even more pertinent with hindsight from season 5.
Sandor to Arya, from great little conversation:
And to think he seemed so unswervingly loyal to Joffrey at first.
A minor point I only realized now: in TV version, Shae checks to see if sheets have blood on them – from ruptured hymen.
In books it’s explained that most noble born girls in Westeros don’t have intact hymens when they marry, due to all the horseback riding as basic transport. Even Cersei dismisses the idea of accusing Margaery of not being a virgin because it’s unprovable (though she can accuse her of adultery…)
Now, for the TV show, this comes up later in Season 5, when Ramsay outright *asks* Sansa if she is a virgin — by modern standards, he’d notice when he broke her hymen during sex that she was a virgin, physically. But that later scene actually kept the point that noble-born girls don’t have intact hymens when they marry – so he simply has to ASK.
This being the case….wouldn’t they NOT expect virginal blood on the bridal sheets in this episode?
…..no…..I don’t know. I’ve even heard mention of real life medieval nobility checking the bridal sheets for virginal blood.
Now I’m confused.
It wouldn’t make any sense for TV!Gendry to go back to the Brotherhood, given that they handed him over to Melisandre against his will.
In the debate over which Daario you prefer, Huisman is undeniably the better actor; I did think that Skrein was more distinctive, though. In neither case, nor in the books, is the character anything special. The guy playing Mero made for a lively guest character.
Another very good Sam/Gilly scene — as I’ve said previously, I think this was Sam’s best season so far. The conversation relating to his father is very revealing.
Dinklage is very amusing in the wedding scenes. Indeed, of course, the whole cast is. But I really hate the way the show handled this whole marriage angle, and especially the decision in this episode to have Sansa to kneel, which just goes against everything that moment stood (literally) for.
Why the hell would he go back to the Brotherhood? They sold him out.
The wedding was very well done.
Looking back I really like that they made Sansa kneel.
It was clear she liked Tyrion much more in the show, then in the books.
All in all Sansa’s story keeps growing on me.
The Dragon Demands,
You’re also disgusting.
Nice Memory Lane post Oz. Also, happy April everyone! Game of Thrones returns THIS month!!!!!!
Which is also an undermining of this whole story. Being forced to marry into the Lannisters is an awful thing for Sansa; it has no upside. And it doesn’t have anything to do with the individual qualities of the groom, something a ton of Tyrion fans seem to miss when they make it all about him. Sansa refused to kneel because it was the only way available to (again literally) stand up for herself, and further breaking away from how she’d always been told it was her job to please others (particularly men).
One of the the major points in GRRM’s story is that there are likeable characters on all sides. This is all too often allowed to obscure that there are sides, and Sansa and Tyrion are on different ones. They are enemies, not two misfits in similar positions, which is what some of these scenes try to sell them as and which a lot of people want to see them as. Tyrion is a Lannister, indeed, the Lannister minister of finance; he is actively working for the defeat of Sansa’s brother, even if he bears them no particular malice. Sansa, obviously, wants the opposite. This is not a situation that him being nice, the bare minimum, can change (and Sansa knew he was trying to be kind).
Mihnea,
And I’m the complete opposite… I loved Ed Skrein more. I felt that he better captured the cocky-ass attitude Daario from the books. His acting was a little rough, but I just liked him more.
What, you think the female body is obscene?
Mista C,
Well here is the problem. I like the new Daario because he isn’t like Daario in the books.
If Sansa hadn’t kneel, non-book readers would probably think, that she is a stubborn brat, and dislike her even more for being mean to Tyrion. Remember, Sansa still wasn’t popular among the fans when season 3 aired, but Tyri. Her not kneeling made some sense in the books where the internal monologue is present, but on TV, I don’t think so.
Changing their wedding into less depressing and more grand one was one of my favorite changes. In the books, it is very gloomy and rushed (mainly because we are in Sansa’s head). There is no Great sept of Baelor, no Tywin-Tyrion interraction, no Olenna funny moments (the Tyrells are actually very cold towards Sansa)…
Second Sons is my favorite “9-rated episode” with Kissed by Fire before it (which is already 10) and followed by Two Swords.
Sean C.,
I could set my clock after you Sean. I knew you’ll reply to that.
I do like Sansa being nicer to Tyrion and kneeling at the wedding.
Everyone has different understanding of stories.
Sansa not kneeling, and some other small things like this are exactly why I didn’t like her in the books.
Her story in the in the show is much better to me, and I’m glad they decided to take this root.
I’m sorry you didn’t get what you like but I did.
Lord Parramandas,
Yup preety much this. Also we where spared the comically stupid sight, of Tyrion standing on a guy.
Sansa’s relationship with Tyrion in vastly better for me. And helped me actually like Sansa.
I never really understood what the viewers are supposed to make of all the crows showing up and observing Sam. Are we meant to draw a line from the crows in the tree to the Three Eyed Raven? With Coldhands omission and without any call backs in the future I feel like this part of the ending scene seems really random on rewatch.
Probably trying to warn him about the white walker. Ravens are very intelligent birds. Also, they were probably included to add a bit of horror athmosphere to the scene.
Old Dario lol
Lord Parramandas,
I always taught BR was helping Sam get to the Wall.
Clearly.
The Dragon Demands,
And Sansa was riding how many horses while she was in KL after she flowered in second season ..
I think you just try to find some mistakes or the so called plot hole just for the sake of complaining against the show…
I thought Mark Killeen and Ramon Tikaram were great! and Ed Skrein a dud.
Tikaram was weird.
When I first saw this episode, I was an Unsullied. I really didn’t like Sansa. When I read somewhere that in the books she hadn’t kneeled I thought “Having her stand up wouldn’t have changed the way I feel about her too much.”
Sean C.,
?
I don’t care for either Daario. The first one is flamboyant enough, but he has zero chemistry with Dany, while the second one has chemistry but looks like a generic knight. Also….did one of Daario’s companions predict his fate?
The scene with Daario, Dany and the tub is silly. As is deserting your companions just for the promise of poonani lmao. Dany needs better security in her camp….lucky her that Ramsay’s 20 good men weren’t around.
The Sansa and Tyrion wedding was well done. There was no way to capture her inner monologue on screen. I’m ok with the kneeling.
Michael Huisman >>>>>> Ed Skrein
Regarding Daario, do you guys know anyone who didn’t notice the recast in Season 4? ‘Cause all my Unsullied friends asked me about it.
I agree. I get why a lot of female GoT fans prefer New Daario, but I too prefer Original Daario for his flair and sleazy undertones.
Michael Huissman is far too generic for my taste, but I think they went that route because viewers might have a hard time understanding why the show’s Dany would fall for the more flamboyant version of the character.
The Dragon Demands,
I interpreted that scene as Shae looking for general signs of sex (rumpled sheets and the like), not just signs that Sansa had lost her virginity. Because that scene was shot from Shae’s perspective, the virgin issue never crossed my mind. She doesn’t care about that – she just wants Tyrion to remain faithful to her. She didn’t see anything. That and Tyrion’s look told her what she wanted to know.
That’s more than enough discussion on the subject, I think.
Tywin of the Hill,
My father noticed. It’s a preaty glaring change. The actors look quite differently.
But he never noticed the Mountain’s recast, he probally still thinks it’s the same guy from S1.
Fancy word for a sellsword,
It’s the same in the books. I remember many complaints about Daario and Dany falling in love with.
I just had a thought. Maybe someone can help me out here. Focusing on season 3, Remember when Davos told Stannis of Robb’s demise and and also Commander Mormont’s, and mentions the things that were seen (WW) and then Melisandre says to Stannis basically that it doesn’t matter now as the war of the 5 kings means nothing, because “Death marches on the wall, only you can stop it.”
Why then does he go to the Wildlings camp? Well later on that question was answered. He wanted the Wildlings to fight in his army. OK fine. But not against the “army of death” Melisandre warned him about, but instead so they can help him take back the North. Then Mel tries to coax Jon into joining the fight and head to Winterfell with them. So, if you look at it a different way doesn’t it seem like maybe she WANTS as many people away from the wall as possible? There’s more that ties in but I’m too tired to bother right now….I was just speculating that maybe Melisandre is really serving the WW’s side (who’s God I think is called the “Great other?”)
Me too. I thought Skrein just oozed slimy charisma. He was different and interesting to watch on screen. He stood out from anyone else on the show. Daario #2 is just… dull.
I wish the Mero actor audition leaked. That must have been weird. Did they cast him for the tongue agility, I wonder….?
Ygritte,
He most likely wants to unite the kingdoms too have the necessary numbers to even stand a chance
The Dragon Demands,
Yes, I think it would be expected that there would be blood on the night of the bedding. I sort of think that the horseback riding is an excuse to hide the fact that a bride is not really a virgin. I know my doctor told me that it wasn’t necessarily so. But not entirely impossible, just improbable. I have read other accounts where the bed sheets were checked to make sure the marriage was consummated, not just for checking to be sure the maid was a virgin.
These days, I don’t think it is that much of an issue. I once heard someone say that menstrual products can break the hymen too…but again, that hasn’t been proven that I am aware of.
And I don’t want to start a menstrual war of she said, she said here. This is just my information back to TDD
The Dragon Demands,
No. The fact that you’re way too far into this is, however. Evidently that’s how you deal with these non-issues. I would recommend to let it go.
JCDavis,
Thanks for the good analysis.
Oh no this isn’t books vs TV show or anything….didn’t someone check the bridal sheets for blood in the books at some point? I mean even within the books. Whatever.
I think that they went with Huisman because they had to get someone into the role fairly quickly and he was an available, known HBO actor. Still think something negative occurred with Skrein that caused his exit (either with D&D or Clarke).
Off topic:
Game of Thrones 51- 50 minutes
Game of Thrones 52- 54 minutes
Game of Thrones 53- 53 minutes
Game of Thrones 54- 59 minutes
Game of Thrones 55- 57 minutes
And still no names -.-
JCDavis,
So nice that you boys are having this enlightening conversation.
Ross,
I know that many other women don’t agree, but I find Ed Skrein attractive in a dirty way. I don’t find Michael Huissman appealing and his acting doesn’t look at all like what I would expect from Daario, even if really disliked the book character.
By all accounts, Skrein is a nice guy so I wish him well, but yeah…I never would have believed Dany would be into him, chemistry-wise. They just didn’t have chemistry onscreen. Huisman is a very different take on the character, much more low-key and not really based on the book version, but he does work well with Emilia.
Thanks Oz for a great article and I loved the GOT parody priceless, cheered me up.
Great appetizer before the wedding feast next episode.
I don’t think we’ll get any episode titles until the Red Carpet premiere on the 10th. I think we pretty much have to know the premiere name by then.
Joffrey's Cunt,
We’re starting to get longer episodes!
Skrein kind of felt more like the conception of Daario, a completely sleazebag. Which I liked. His acting was nothing special, and he doesn’t have the same kind of chemistry as Huisman does with Dany.
Mero represents one of the few deaths of utter jerkoffs on the show that is not undercut by something, and his brief time on the show makes it clear he’s not going to get additional layering to make him seem sympathetic, so he dies, deservedly.
This one’s a good one. There are two kinds of slower episodes – the ones that check in on a lot of plots and move things forward just a little (which is fine for a season premiere or episode 2) and the “slow burn” ones that ooze tension all over the place and make you dread something terrible happening. This one is happily the latter.
Probably. I just wish we get them sooner than that to help us pass the week lol
Last year we got the first 4 pretty soon, but I guess the reason why was beacause the critics had access to those episodes.
Well at least that!
Joffrey’s Cunt,
IIRC the titles leaked last year. I’m glad that things aren’t leaking quite so easily this year, although it would be nice to have some episode titles soon.
Er, yeah, that’s the whole point. The wedding is an awful thing. The Tyrells are cold to Sansa because their only interest was politics, and once she was no longer of use to them, they drop her; that realization was an important part of Sansa’s arc in this story, lost in the TV show because they carry on as normal.
As far as the internal monologue issue, the show has no problem having Sansa talk whenever they want her to say something. Have her say to Tyrion the simple truth: she could only be pushed so far.
I find the fact that many fans seem to think Sansa was being “mean” by not kneeling to the man she was being forced to marry at swordpoint and who afterward only refrained from having sex with her without her consent at the last minute very disturbing. Why, precisely, was Sansa supposed to care about Tyrion in that moment?
Joffrey’s Cunt,
I know last year they leaked. But I wasn’t here before S5.
Did titles leaked for S1-S4?
I hadn’t watched that “What is this?” video in years. I laughed my ass off like I was like discovering it for the first time. One of many reasons why Oz’s recaps are just the best. His enthusiasm for the weirdos of the GOT universe is always a treat. Lysa and Mero – both gone too soon!
Of course, Mero is a vulgar, chauvinistic scumbag, but his narcissistic swagger is certainly amusing to watch. Credit to Mark Killeen for delivering such a memorable performance! An onscreen death may have ruined the later reveal of Daario’s defection, but it definitely would have been fun to see the Titan’s Bastard separated from his head. Maybe as a DVD extra.
Speaking of the devil, it’s Old Daario! Or, for those of you who have seen Deadpool … Fraaaaaaaaanciiiiiiiiiisssssss!
My opinion on the recast is one that many people have already expressed. I think that Michiel Huisman is a better actor than Ed Skrein, so I’m in favor of it in balance. I also find his chemistry with Emilia Clarke more believable. Of course, it helps greatly that Emilia’s Dany isn’t required to moon over Daario to the same extent that her book counterpart does. She obviously finds him attractive, but she appears to be under no illusions that she’s using him for anything more than sex. It’s quite clear to me that in the show, his affections far outstrip hers.
For what it’s worth, I do think that Skrein’s Daario is closer to the essence of the character in the books … minus the ridiculous blue hair, of course. This may be somewhat facetious, but that may be my favorite cut in the entire series. If Daario’s Sinbad-meets-Captain Crunch-meets a-blender look had made it into the show, I think I would have retched. It would have been impossible for me to take such a character seriously, no matter how good the actor they had cast in the role was.
I will admit, however, that the complete lack of any attempt to make the two versions of the character look similar does nag at me … slightly. It’s especially noticeable when I jump straight into Season 4 after watching Season 3. I’m not saying that they should have gotten Huisman to wear a long, blonde wig, but making slightly more of an effort to maintain visual continuity between the characters – besides just wearing the same costume and carrying the same swords with naked ladies on the pommel – might have alleviated some of the confusion. As it stands, Daario 2.0 might as well be a new character. A better, more interesting character, to be sure, but I can’t blame anyone for not drawing an immediate connection between the two.
Sean C.,
Not really ”last minute” in the sow, Tyrion didn’t even let her undress.
Witch made love Tyrion even more!
I believe JCDavis is a woman.
Mihnea,
I’d still call that the last minute, seeing as that’s what she was doing; and the key point being that, as of the wedding, Tyrion was still planning to do it (in both the books and the show). There is absolutely no reason why Sansa owes him any consideration there. Her forced marriage is her greatest victimization to date, at that point (the show decided to add further).
The “security” thing bothers me, but I guess you can use that to cast Daario as “Special”.
Jared,
Jared, your opinion on episodes are very well written. Both things you liked and things you didn’t. Criticism is very well written and argumented.
I love how you don’t really dwell on the negative to much, but rather talk about what you liked!
Hope you’ll continue this with S4 and S5, when the threads will start geting considerably more negative, unfortunatly.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/01/game-thrones-season-6?xid=email-gameofthrones-20160401-readstory
“Not one word changed” due to criticism.
Sean C.,
Yeah, let’s not get into this.
We clearly won’t agree on this subject.
I like the way they did it much more then the books did it. Sansa was never a character I liked in the books. But she is among my favourites in the show. So for me they are clearly doing something right.
As I said, I’m sorry you didn’t get the story you wanted.
Tywin of the Hill,
I do. Most of my friends watch the show faithfully, but don’t follow it as closely (or obsessively!) as i do. They just assumed new Daario was a different character.
Jack Bauer 24,
Thank the gods!
Sullied by Knight,
So, in a sense, they did notice.
Βoy did Daario #1 suck!
And what a creepy scene was the one involving Sam, Gilly and the crows… the Other later on, but actually I found the crows creepier… Great work by the director and everyone else.
As for why Sam left the dragonglass… I guess he wasn’t thinking straight at the time!
I couldn’t tell you, my memory sucks lol
I find Melisandre’s line about the art of sacrifice is one of the most chilling pieces of dialogue in the show. Even Stannis seems perturbed. “You’ve slaughtered many lambs?”/“And none have seen the blade.” God damn, Red. That’s cold.
I’m a broken record on this subject by this point, but I’m going to keep saying it: re-watching Stannis’s story now, with the end in mind, I’m absolutely floored by how good it is, how consistent it is, and how well it ties together as a complete character arc. I find myself growing increasingly annoyed with the idea that the character was mishandled (and I was already plenty annoyed). People can (and do) have their opinions about how he met his end, whether or not it was rushed, and whether the Mannis will ever do such a thing in the books. But the show had a vision for the character, it unfolded over four seasons, and as far as I’m concerned, it was masterful.
Maybe it’s because I’m on hyperalert for such elements, but I am picking up so, so, so many lines of dialogue foreshadowing the eventual sacrifice of Shireen. “You’re not a man that slaughters innocents for gain or glory.” Seven Hells, Davos. If only that were true.
If Davos had allowed Gendry had been sacrificed, would Shireen’s sacrifice have been necessary? I’m sure that’s a question he’ll ask himself, once he finds out what happened.
On a lighter note, I love Davos learning to read. He’s doing well, but … Visenya? Vhagar? Shireen, come on. I know that you love dragons, and those books have nice pretty pictures, but you could have given him something a little easier.
Lighter note, #2: So which king’s name do we think accompanied the penis leach? Was it Robb’s, because it was the most potent? Was it Balon’s, because it took so long to work? (As so many people love to remind us.
Or was it Joffrey’s, because he was … well, you know … a dick? I think I’m going with Joffrey, just because it amuses me the most.
Same here. Daario was obvious, and a pleasant surprise (I have not read the books, don’t know how Daario is supposed to look like or behave, I just thought the first one would make a better Wight Walker…). But the Hound, honestly, I could’n’t tell how he looks or whether he had changed even if my life depended upon it.
Yes, Jared, I enjoyed the “Cheshire cat grin” quality of Daario 1. However as he’s supposed to be the “alluring bad boy all the girls want” and I am a boy, I don’t think I’m in a position to judge. So I guess we’d have to ask what the ladies on here think.
Mihnea,
Thank you! 🙂 I always enjoy your comments as well (and not just because I agree with them most of the time).
I always hope that I can convey through my writing just how dearly I love Game of Thrones and how consistently and exceptionally brilliant I find it to be. I do have some small criticisms, and I express them when I can in the interest of fair discourse. But the issues I have are small, and virtually never detract from my enjoyment of the show as a whole.
I’ll definitely keep commenting on the Memory Lanes for Season 4 (which is my favorite season of the show to date) and Season 5 (which I think is great, and far from the step down in quality that some believe it to be). I’ll try to keep bringing positive energy to the discussion of Season 6 as well. I hang out on WOTW so much because I genuinely love Game of Thrones to death. Others may feel differently, but if I can’t be mostly positive in my commentary, then I would personally rather not comment at all.
Might be more fun if I was a boy… *looks down* Nope all female bits here.
The Hound wasn’t recast.
The Dragon Demands,
JCDavis,
I was riding since I was 6, and I can assure you that you have to have an accident or something to have a broken hymen. Actually it could more possibly happen while riding a bicycle (so practically never, as ladies here would now), or while training in gymnastics.
And I guess that women back in the Middle Ages would be more likely be carried in carriages, at least for longer distances.
Dukat,
Because he has nowhere else to go where he could be accepted. I think it makes sense for him to go back to the BWB and I hope he is coming back this season. If not I do not see the point why will we see him in S7 and under what circumstances. 3 seasons rowing is just to much waste away for a character unless there is a twist in the part he will play in the final game that no-one can think about it. But somehow it seems to silly a mistake for D&D to introduce him and have him for 3 seasons only to disappear him in a boat never to be seen again…
Why? He’s a trained blacksmith (and quite physically strong besides). He could simply get a job and fade into anonymity. That makes a lot more sense than hiking back to the Riverlands to look for some guys who sold him to his potential death.
Jared,
Actually there’s a point there; not only do the two Daarios look completely difficult, Daario 1 is a complete douche, whereas Daario 2 is a guy that could be your best pal. So I guess maybe the recast had to do as well with the fact that they decided to have a different Daario, a nice guy, and the first actor had been cast as a sleazeball and could not adapt to the new him. Maybe?
Jared,
Don’t worry, your love for GOT is as obvious as Gwendoline’s height… and talent! You possess the rare quality to stay objective in your inspired and inspiring analysis, at the same time clearly showing you admiration for the masterpiece this show is.
On a lighter note, it’s very funny how you decided which leach was for Joffrey. I approve!
Sean C.,
I do not disagree that this could be an option but then why did they bother to introduce him at all only to render him an anonymous blacksmith somewhere in Westeros. It doesn’t make sense and I don’t think so that D&D would give him the cold shoulder you offer to Gendry. In my opinion he will be back this season although I don’t remember any sighting of the actor in Belfast…
In the books, Sansa refuses to kneel for the cloaking, but she does kneel for the kiss after she feels ashamed of her stubbornness.
It’s plausible to read TV Sansa’s hesitation to kneel for Tyrion in 3×08 as deliberate, since she doesn’t actually do so until Tyrion asks her despite knowing full well that he’s too short to put the cloak on her shoulders. It seems that the TV writers compressed two events from the books–Sansa refusing to kneel for the cloaking and kneeling for the kiss when she feels bad–into the show’s single version of events, where there’s no kiss shown and where Sansa deliberately takes her sweet time kneeling but ultimately does.
TV Tyrion comes off far better in the wedding sequence, since he politely asks her to kneel rather than sharply yanking on her skirts the way he does in the books.
Because he had a significant supporting role for three seasons (well, two; in the first season he was more minor). That doesn’t inherently mean he has a role going forward, or that the time spent on him was wasted if he doesn’t. I haven’t the slightest objection to seeing Gendry again if the writers have more for him to do, but if not, the character was written off acceptably (but if KL does eventually get torched, I would appreciate some clarification on whether he was there or not).
Maisie was asked about Joe Dempsie being back on the show a few months ago. She talked about having met him at a party at Hannah Murray’s house a while earlier (Skins alums evidently keep in touch), but that she didn’t know when/if he’d be back. She could have been covering, but she seemed quite sincere.
M,
I don’t think that was the intent, because there’s no focus at all on Sansa during that particular part. She just meekly stands there and then does what Tyrion asks.
Ah, Second Sons! One of my favorite “underrated” episodes, though I suppose that underrated is probably not a suitable word. It’s not that people think of it as a bad episode, but it kinda gets lost when discussing great hours of GoT or compiling various top lists. It rarely gets mentioned at all, or at least that’s been my impression. Where I’m concerned, Second Sons is a treat and one of the funniest episodes the show has done; a comedy almost, strange as it sounds.
The early scene with the sellsword trio meeting Daenerys and her retinue is hilarious from start to finish in its unapologetically sexist and gross portrayal of Mero (and his tongue). His casual insults, threats, and butt slaps are so offensively over-the-top that they actually make a 180 and become an entertaining delight to watch. When Daario later presents Dany with his head, I was actually a bit sad: I wouldn’t get to witness his hilarity anymore!
Speaking of Daario’s “gift”, that scene in my opinion contains the best usage of nudity in the show. Daenerys perfectly demonstrates that she isn’t a scared or confused girl anymore, and has truly come into her own. She knows what Daario wants and isn’t afraid to use it in order to bind him to her will. She is confident, strong, willful, and fully in control of her body and sexuality. From my perspective as a man, this was a supremely empowering moment for Dany and yet another peak in what is one of her best seasons.
Meanwhile, King’s Landing hosts Sansa’s wedding to Tyrion. Her refusal to meekly submit in the books is a powerful moment and shows that Sansa’s spirit is far from being broken. While I don’t think that the different approach in the show is some egregious faux pas, I do regret the writers’ decision. For all the charm Tyrion — and Peter — undeniably have, this was one of the few real opportunities Sansa had to resist her captors and show independence of spirit. That said, the wedding was gloriously staged and shot by Michelle MacLaren: rich and opulent, bathed in warm golden light, with the saddest and most beautiful girl in King’s Landing at its center. (Did Sansa remind anyone of princess Irulan from Lynch’s Dune?)
We are treated to a tonal shift for the wedding feast in what is pure comedic gold. The star of the evening is, of course, drunk Tyrion whose deification into the god of tits and wine is as hilarious as it is indicative of his growing disgust with the corruption, deceit, and veiled brutality of King’s Landing’s politics. His thoughts on the importance of honesty in a relationship (where vomiting is concerned) should be included in a book of wise quotes and saved for posterity.
Cersei explaining the history of “The Rains of Castamere” to Margaery is a great scene (especially given what’s coming in the next episode). I always loved that despite Cersei’s threat to strangle Margaery if she ever calls her “sister” again, Margaery can’t resist doing it anyway after she marries Tommen. Of course, she also calls her “mother”, which I imagine galls Cersei even more. 😉
Olenna explaining how complicated the Lannister-Tyrell family relations are about to become is absolutely hysterical. What a mess. No wonder Loras gets up and walks away in disgust. As Tyrion said a few episodes ago, Sansa’s probably getting the worst of this deal, but Loras is certainly coming to know a deep and singular misery.
In fact, the entire wedding reception is dark comedic gold (minus the bit with Joffrey and Sansa, which is just dark). Peter Dinklage is in his element as Tyrion gets more and more drunk. “I am the god of tits and wine! I shall build a shrine to myself at the next brothel I visit!” Nice payoff to the joke that was set up in 2×08 there.
Season 3 is definitely Tyrion’s least memorable season overall, but that’s not Peter Dinklage’s fault. He’s as great as ever, Look at the fury with which he bellows “Then you’ll be fucking your own bride with a wooden cock!” and the slow disgust with which he walks it back when Tywin gives him an escape route. This episode was his Emmy submission that year for a reason.
I don’t want to wade too much into the debate about whether or not Sansa should have knelt for Tyrion or not. Both sides of the argument have been covered already. All I’ll say that I understand why the change was made, and I personally don’t care about it. Furthermore, I don’t think it irreparably damages anyone involved.
I like the implication that Dany’s Dothraki may not have been all that great, but Drogo was so in love with her that he didn’t care. I wonder if her rusty language skills will be an issue in Season 6?
For all the noise about whether or not Emilia Clarke had a no-nudity clause added to her contract post-Season 1, she’s nude in this episode. And it’s a good moment for Dany when she climbs out the tub, totally undaunted by Daario’s gaze. A powerful move for the character.
I also like Sam and Gilly’s conversation about family names and their cruel fathers. I’m really looking forward to meeting Randyll Tarly and his “different manner of cruel” in Season 6.
The ravens may or may not be a nod to Coldhands (who I don’t miss, personally) but they’re a chilling addition to the scene where Sam kills the White Walker. I love the ending shot of the episode where Sam and Gilly run towards the camera and the ravens fly after them. Michelle MacLaren – who’s probably most famous for her amazing work on Breaking Bad – is often overlooked as one of the great directors that Game of Thrones has employed. She directed four episodes of the show (“The Bear and the Maiden Fair”, “Second Sons”, “Oathkeeper”, and “First of His Name”) and they all have great visual moments like that one. I hope she returns to direct an episode or two in a future season.
Mr Fixit,
To the point!
I’m with you. Skrein’s Daario has such a smarmy way about him. More attitude and swagger. Plus, while not quite like the books, he was more flamboyant. It was the hair.
Michael Huisman is great to look at and a good enough actor but this Daario is fairly forgettable. Even the booty shot wasn’t enough for me to get on board. Don’t hate him in the role by any means but he falls into the “meh” category. For a show rich in characters, he is far, far down the list of one of them.
Mihnea,
Forgive me if I’m wrong Mihnea, but sometimes I get a “passive-aggressive vibe” on You. It looks like you indirectly reply to someone without quote or link to the person’s previous comment. So the person reply to you directly, and then you are like “oh, I knew you would disagree with me, but let’s not discuss this matter, I’m sorry You didn’t enjoyed as I did”, like all superior and all. In this case, Sean was the first (and only?) one to bring the whole Sansa kneeling thing, and then when He replied to your comment You were like “oh, I knew this was coming”. Well, of course You knew, You wrote your comment with this purpose.
Skrein looks like Steve-O from Jackass with long hair
Jack Bauer 24,
Oops. Wrong brother…!
black trout,
I started talking about Sansa’s story starting from S3. Small comments not long ones, as I think there are couple of people who do that and they are doing it great.
When I started writing my comment I didn’t even saw Sean’s. But afterwards I knew he would reply. That ”I could set my clock after you” was intended more as a funny joke. I apologise if it wasn’t. I didn’t intend to offend or attack him.
As my comment afterwards. I had long disscussions with Sean, from Dorne to Sansa and beyond. We could never agree, and frankly I don’t think we will. Some of those threads started getting derailed, both of us got a bit to excited…
So that’s why I don’t really get into a long debate with him any longer. I don’t want to derail the thread and it’s a quite pointless as we see things very differently.
That’s why I ”cut it short” to say so…
black trout,
I really didn’t get that, in my view they just argue politely.
dothrakian raven,
Thanks! I enjoyed writing that wall of text. 🙂
Is anybody else’s HBO GO not current? On the mobile app it still shows yesterday’s The Bear and the Maiden Fair for me and on the PC app it still shows 205 The Ghost of Harrenhal, which is almost 2 weeks behind?
Tyrion was kind to her and she knew that he is forced also.
Jared,
The discussion about Sansa and kneeling remedies me of “who shot first??” discussions in SW fandom.
Those kinds of details are something completely unimportant for me and I’m always amazed how fans of both SW and GoT think that something so small can define a character.
mau,
He was nicer to her than the others; he’s still marrying her against her will, about to have sex with her when she doesn’t want to, and an enemy of House Stark. And he was not forced to marry her in the book — the show evidently preferred to present it that way.
It’s ironic that Sansa got so much hatred for being insufficiently loyal to her family early on, and then later gets hated for being insufficiently disloyal.
Mr Fixit,
Hey there Mr. Duck. I love your avatar!!
Sou,
Well, the comment that I replied to was not the first one that I get that odd vibe from Mihnea (sometimes in other threads I get annoyed by the way He interacts with another fellas, calling people “book purists”, and things like that). But I do apologize if my words sounded to harsh. It has nothing to do with me anyway, and apparently this event not even bothered Sean, so definitely wasn’t up to me interfere. 🙂
mau,
reminds*
I’m not talking about the books.
In the show they were two people put in very unpleasant situation and Sansa knew that because in the show Tyrion was the one who told her about the marriage. And in the books the wedding happened immediately, but in the show Sansa has a time to process that information.
In the show there is no reason for her to refuse to spear Tyrion from humiliation, because he already saved her from humiliation in S2.
black trout,
Don’t worry love. And no need to apologize either!
Having watched Sean and Mihnea for quite some time, I just think that they love to argue!!
JCDavis,
Ah – but you have to admit that it is enlightening…
Must admit, I preferred the first version of Daario (Ed Skrein) also. I was somewhat surprised when S4 aired and Daario was played by a different actor (Michael Huissman), but have long gotten used to him playing that role now.
I always roll up laughing when characters come out with crude comments. Usually its from Tyrion, Bronn or The Hound, but when Mero casually says to Dany: “Show me your cunt!” I creased up… Hehe 😀
That didn’t go unnoticed by Dany as Oz stated in his excellent recap. Her reply when they left her tent was: “Ser Barristan… when it comes to battle, kill that one first.”
mau,
Yeah, I never had that much stake in the “Han shot first” debate either. I’ve heard all of the arguments made by both sides (though in that case, the debate is definitely weighted more heavily towards one side). But I always looked at it more as a curiosity than anything else. The alteration of such a minor detail didn’t change my perception of either the character of Han Solo or the movie itself – both of which are fantastic and which I love very much to this day.
Then again, I’m young enough that the first time I saw A New Hope was the theatrical re-release of the Special Edition in 1997. I saw the original version on VHS a few weeks later, after I was already properly obsessed. As such, I never developed the fervent attachment to the original versions that some people did. (That’s also part of the reason why I have more of a sentimental attachment to the prequels than many fans do, but that’s another matter entirely).
I have a similar relationship with the ASOIAF novels and the GoT TV show, I think. In both cases, I love the forest dearly, but don’t have an overwhelming attachment to any particular tree. And I never had any trouble separating the two.
It’s funny, because Star Wars and Game of Thrones are far and away my two greatest loves in pop culture, and every year I notice more and more parallels between the two fandoms. It’s gotten to the point where I can really only delve deeply into one at any given moment. Dealing with both of them at the same time can be a little too intense. 😉
Mihnea,
I don’t know if they leaked (might just be they were released) but we did have some of them by this time.
Not that matters, but this (male) viewer preferred Old Daario too – though his acting and general demeanour felt as if it had snuck in from a bad ’80s fantasy film, the over-the-top cheesiness worked for that character. New Daario, though played by a much better actor in my opinion, always feels too low-key to me.
JCDavis,
Donald Duck is a great guy! And his first name is my RL nickname (not in English though!), so that’s a bonus. 😉
A hardcore Trekkie here. Nothing will ever compare with shiny baldness of His Majesty Patrick Stewart.
Mr Fixit,
Fans of Star Wars and Star Trek cannot coexist in the same space! Begone, you monster! 😉
In all seriousness, The Next Generation is the only Star Trek TV show where I’ve seen more than an episode or two, but I loved what I saw (though I’ve seen the movies as well). I genuinely want to get through the seven seasons on Netflix someday. In the meantime, you’ll get no arguments about the greatness of Sir Patrick Stewart from me.
Mero was an absolute boor but I thought the actor was super hot. They should have cast him for Daario, I would have understood Dany’s weakness for him.
I am sure I am alone with this but i really wish Mero was around longer. He was so delightfully horrible. I actually wish he was cast as Daario. I’m probably the only one who misses him
#notsorry
Being about to be raped by the enemy of her family is not reason enough?
Wow, that NBC parody was awesome. If anyone has entire plot spoilers for season 6, please share!
Ed Skrein touched on his GoT exit recently during his press tour for The Transporter movie he was in. He said he would’ve liked to continue on Thrones, but was let go because of politics. In other words, he probably was banging every PA, producers wife, kraft service worker, etc. on the set.
I don’t mind either Daario, but I wish Ed Skrein stayed on as I hate the break in continuity plus I liked his Daario better – like a lot of people are saying, he brought something extra to the role. Michele Huisman is a great actor, but he was last minute casting and doesn’t fit the role as well.
This episode overall is highly underrated. Very nice work from Michelle Maclaren, especially loved the wedding sequence in the Sept of Baelor complete with Ramen’s beautiful score. The Sept of Baelor has to be my favorite set on the show out of all the great ones to choose from.
Also, the guy that played Mero was great and really stole the show. Was actually sad to see him killed so quickly.
This thread is not the place to share spoilers, though there are plenty of others that discuss the recent trailer and set reports etc. If you do type any spoilers from season 6, keep in mind not everyone wants to hear them so please use the spoiler tag.
Bufferzone,
Add me to this list as well. Michael Huisman is a good actor (liked him in Orphan Black) but Ed Skrein had that Fabulous Fabio bad-boy attitude that I was expecting, albeit too over the top, apparently.
Yoyo,
I totally agree with this! I had forgotten all about this guy until I saw the pic of his flapping tongue that Oz included. If only they had flipped those roles…
Daario is one of the few characters they could drop and I wouldn’t care. He’s neither good nor bad, he’s just … there.
Emilia Clarke stated in the interview (September 2015): “If a nude scene forwards a story or is shot in a way that adds insight into characters, I’m perfectly fine with it.” So yes, she probably doesn’t have no-nudity clause in her contract or at least she is not completely against nude scenes.
msd,
Same. He’s pretty much a non entity, at least so far.
Sean C.,
I want to see Gendry come back to claim his lady, Arya.
Also, Nymeria and Ghost have to get together to make baby dire wolves ?.
?