Back in January, HBO programming president Michael Lombardo indicated at a TCA event that the network was in talks at the time to bring Game of Thrones back for complete seventh and eighth seasons. The news was reassuring to fans hoping for full final seasons, with the typical ten episodes each. However, the rumors of the seventh and potential eighth season being split in half have persisted, without any solid sources- until now.
Today, Variety has reported that David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, executive producers of Game of Thrones, have said “they are considering an abbreviated end game” for the show.
Variety exclusively reports that Benioff and Weiss have stated they’re considering wrapping up Thrones with “just 13 more episodes once this sixth season is over: seven episodes for season 7; six for the eighth and potential final season.”
“I think we’re down to our final 13 episodes after this season. We’re heading into the final lap,” Benioff is quoted as saying. “That’s the guess, though nothing is yet set in stone, but that’s what we’re looking at.”
However, Variety does seem to be hedging their bets; they further report that other sources later “clarified those exact numbers were premature” and that Benioff and Weiss were only beginning to outline their plans. They did stick with the idea that “any upcoming seasons may be shorter than the full 10 episodes of seasons past.”
So why the change? There isn’t enough time to produce ten episodes in a year. Weiss says, “It’s crossing out of a television schedule into more of a mid-range movie schedule.”
Lombardo weighs in the discussion, admitting Benioff and Weiss are looking to end with two more seasons. “That’s my understanding from them right now, those have been the conversations we’ve had,” he tells Variety. The exec confirms that they are still in negotiations.
While I find the idea of abbreviated seasons a bit disappointing, it seems that with the ever-increasing scale of the show, maintaining the level of quality may not be possible if they keep doing 10 episodes. As we get closer and close to the end of Game of Thrones, there are likely to be more battles, more dragon action, more White Walkers, bigger special effects and bigger moments than ever. If trimming the episode count is what has to be done to keep the show the best, then I’d rather they do what has to be done.
Hodor
…and too bad about shortened seasons. I guess it’s reached the tipping point and is basically like doing 5 movies a year, so it’s understandable. I’ll take whatever I can get.
Sandor
Don’t know how I feel about this. 10 eps each for the final 2 seasons would have been brilliant, maybe that’s me being selfish and wanting it to go on as long as possible. If they do indeed abbreviate the seasons, makes you wonder how much of Mr Martin’s plot they’ll cull.
If there’s only 13 episodes left after season 6 that would mean that Dany’s invasion along with the War vs the Others would happen very quickly. I was hoping for 20 more episodes after this season, but they know the rest of the story and we don’t.
They have been writing S7 for quite some time now. So they technically should already know how many episodes S7 will have. Depending on their decision, they will just give some of S7 episodes to S8.
Personally I’d rather get only 7 seasons with S7 having 10 episodes than having to wait 2 more years to watch only 13 episodes… Though the quality of the last episodes would be even higher, they have many battles left and big scenes. They would have more time to produce them, and more money. Could benefit them.
I got a feeling I’m seriously going to hate the ending of this whole thing, goddammit.
Don’t care about the length of the seasons or time between seasons.
All I care about is whether or not they have the canvas to tell the story in the best way possible. If the show ends up being 72.345 episodes, I’m fine with that.
I was hoping the final two seasons (especially the final) would have episodes that spent time with a smaller group of characters, like “Second Sons.” If they shorten the seasons, then it’s more likely the episode structures will continue the way they’ve been since season two. Unfortunate, because the clip show nature of the show has always been its biggest flaw.
Just do one final 7th season but don’t debut it until Winter 2017/2018 and make it 13 eps. Have someone else do one or two one-offs to fill the time b/w seasons (Robert’s Rebellion, Dance of Dragons, Dunk and Egg, whatevs). There are creative ways around this without some boosh 6 episode season.
Good. I hope they stick with 8 seasons and end while the show’s still at its high.
I know HBO is thirsty for money, but there’s plenty to be made from spin-offs. ASOIAF has loads of stories they can adapt: The Dance of the Dragons, Aegon’s Conquest, Blackfyre Rebellion, Dunk and Egg, Robert’s Rebellion. Some would also be cheaper to make than GoT.
Actually, it makes sense. The Wall will fall after S6. I never thought that they could have WW as a treat for 20 episodes.
I am happy. I’m really worried with not only this, but every other show that the end will ruin it.
I always thought that 73-75 episodes is enough. 20 hours of zombie invasion will be too much. I hope it will be only 13 episodes.
Things should move along quickly this year if only about 15 episodes are left. They can’t let stories languish if this news is true. Expect this year to be very spoilery for WOW.
Ugh! Just give me 7 seasons. If there are only 13 hours left, trim the excess and make every episode 70 minutes long. Don’t stretch a wee bit out.
Are fans going to be able to survive the 10-month wait between seasons 7 and 8? Or will they spread the episodes out to 2 weeks apart?
A Dream of Spring is probably never going to be published, so we may never know.
of course they are….D & D’s next HBO project “Dirty White Boys” is looming near!!!!
Dany not having ventured into Westeros really irks me after this bit of bit of news. Only 13 potential eps of her interacting with characters in Westeros and that’s only if she sets sail at the end od S6.
That’s the point. If they did 13 episodes, it would probably take them 2 years to make.
So you either get 7 episodes in 2017 and 6 in 2018….. Or they skip 2017.
Quality over quantity.
Only 7 episodes for a season would be so sad. I mean we, the fans wish there were more than 10.episodes as it is. But we really would be devastated if there were only 2 more seasons after season 6. I am personally hoping it keeps going for 5 more seasons or so.
20 episodes of WW battles will get old very fast, I agree.
Blame GRRM for that. He is 5 books in and she hasn’t made it to Westeros either.
UGH….. say it isn’t so…
That’s also a good idea. They’ve streamlined a lot of the story, so 7 to 8 seasons seems realistic. If HBO had their way, we’d get 10 seasons of The Walking Dead on ice.
5 More Seasons? Please, No! Most shows fall off badly after 3 or 4 seasons. GoT is lucky because it has enough depth to make it longer. But 5 more seasons would make the show pathetically bad by the end of it.
Oh man, my logical side realizes this is probably a good thing, but my GoT-loving side thinks “Nooooooooooo! MORE!”
Flayed Potatoes,
Yes. I expect last 13 episodes to be very strong. Dany’s invasion. War for Dawn, Mad Queen Cersei, Euron, HS,…
There is just not enough story left for 20 episodes.
I’m fine with this. Stretching the story just for the sake of stretching it is a big nope.
While I’m kinda sad to see how close we are to the end, I’m excited as well. Quality over quantity, I say. Bring it on, D&D.
I’m ok with less episodes if they will be 2 hours long. 😀
The Bastard,
True. D&D know best I guess, and they’ve done a splendid job of navigating George’s world, whilst being mindful of the author’s wishes of not revealing every big event.
That’s going to change now and I hope they run with it tbh! Give me it all. And give me 70-80 minute episodes here and there please.
I’d rather watch one 13-episodes season next year, really.
If it has to be shortened, there is no need to drag it for two years.
If they think they only have 13 episodes left, just do a 13 episode Season 7. Don’t split it up over years and don’t force 13 episodes to 20.
King Crow,
They can’t finish 13 episodes for next year…. That is what they are trying to say. They might not be able to even do 10 due to the size of it.
Exactly. They cut Young Griff, so Dany has a clear path for the invasion. WW are already close to the Wall. Things are moving fast and there’s no fat left to trim.
HBO can always buy the rights for a spin-off and make money off of it.
No, just no. I won’t accept this and will not back their choice with my money.
Add it to the list of bizarre things these two have said in 2016. Are we going to be getting 50 minute episodes in this abbreviated 6 episode season too? Their entire attitude of hey maybe we can do 8 or 9 or 10 seasons changed when Breaking Bad wrapped it up much earlier than anyone expected. Seriously, look up their words and interviews from seasons 1, 2, and 3. They were point blank asked if they had enough material to do 10 seasons before season 3 and they responded “that’s the plan”. Then all of a sudden it changed to 7 seasons. Then maybe 8. Now it’s abbreviated.
I bet you they push for the Breaking Bad split model of a 7A, 7B season too. They have a hard on for Breaking Bad and Vince Gilligan.
I actually like these two guys but they are annoying me this year.
A 13 ep season would obviously take longer to make than a 10 ep one so it woudn’t be on air till later on in the year which would impact on other HBO shows.
While I’d rather get another two full seasons after this year, I understand that the production values needed to deliver the endgame are going to hit an absurd price point even for Thrones. I’m confident the spectacle of these upcoming years, which the showrunners are labeling as “crossing out of a television schedule into more of a mid-range movie schedule,” will be worth the wait.
Still, though — 7 and 6 for a total of 13 more is definitely less than I’d hoped. I’d gotten rather charmed with the notion of “The Children” being the precise(ish) runtime halfway point for the televised saga! Oh well. Nothing is set in stone, though, so if they realize they need a little more, well… more’s the merrier. Maybe 8 and 8? Make the 8!
I have no problem with this. It makes sense and will very likely give us a spectacular finale that we probably wouldn’t get otherwise.
After this season they wont have any of Martins books left to work with. Considering how much has never made it to the show they will have less ends to tie up. I think this season will be the one that reveals the biggest and most anticipated plot twists. The rest is the end game. As a book reader primarily Im not sure really where I sit. Martins vision for the end game is far more complex that what D&D would have been told so I am not sure I want the end game spoiled by a heavily abbreviated 13 ep run. Whilst I think 13 eps is reasonable given they will be on their own writing, I think I would probably be giving far more considered thought on whether I would continue watching because I am anticipating a quality drop in story in favour of action. I guess its wait and see at this point.
Whilst I’m slightly disappointed, I can’t say it’s too upsetting. It’s not like this will be absolutely the last time we see this universe in visual form. There’s plenty of other books, and I’m sure it’ll end up like Harry Potter, where every few years they’ll be a book or short series with the prequels.
As long as it doesn’t go the way Luther did, it’s not the end of the world.
They haven’t even officially renewed it for a 7th Season yet.
Makes sense…I don’t see how they can drag the story out any longer.
would it be great that the show is twelve or thirteen episodes and half it through between two seasons? personally I love the idea but/ however if they divide them through fire and ice…season seven (with six episode) will be the fire story line. all the politcal and war they promise us…Dany travels to Westeros. battle against brothers, the battle of the houses and etc. while season eight (seven episode) will be the battle of the white walkers and of the book end to the story…Though I don’t think that will be the case but I hope that the story will be that kind of division.
They’re going to film later this year, because of Winter. There’s no time enough for post-production and all the CGI for 10 episodes.
Oh, no. What are they going to do now?
I’m okay with this. Up the quality & CGI & make fewer, better episodes D&D & end it.
GRRM can finish the true telling in his books, stars can go on, and HBO can make (Bob’s Rebellion, Dance of Dragons, DUNK&EGG, etc) seasons with new producers. Fresh eyes running GOT for TV would be cool.
The fans of TWD would kill for showrunners like D&D.
I knew it.
The producers wanted seven seasons. We knew that. But HBO kept pushing for eight, until D&D started singing that tune as well.
Now we’ll get two short final runs instead of one giant epic sendoff (ala the frustrating “final” season of Mad Men).
I don’t care if it would be a much longer wait. They should just take the time to finish all 13 episodes (if that’s the number they want) and then air the whole thing.
But HBO wouldn’t get to keep rolling in the dough for another year if they did that.
The Bastard,
That’s ridiculous. Benioff and Weiss can do whatever they want. They chose to not have her invade either. I know it’s fashionable to bash the author, but it’s now beyond clear they have the creative freedom to do as they please. They didn’t have to wait 6 seasons for Dany to invade either.
Honestly, if anything I’m now inclined to believe her invasion does not result in anything King’s Landing related if they think they only have 13 episodes left. You think they can squeeze in an invasion, overthrow, taking of the throne, and fighting off The Others in maybe 13 episodes? I think if anything it makes it rather clear she never takes the throne.
well I’m pretty sure this discussion has a lot to do with how they handle that renewal order.
Lombardo weighs in the discussion, admitting Benioff and Weiss are looking to end with two more seasons. “That’s my understanding from them right now, those have been the conversations we’ve had,” he tells Variety. The exec confirms that they are still in negotiations.
looks like nothing is set in stone yet, I’ll wait to see how season 6 ends.
and then hear their Final plan for the show before passing judgment.
Matthew The Dragon knight,
We’ll probably be hearing at least vague cursory details of a renewal within a few weeks of the S6 premiere.
The Bastard,
Sorry for being slow.
What if the show is broadcast in Late 2017, as suggested by the poster I originally quoted?
Still better than a 6-7 episodes formula
None of this surprises me. I agree with the quality over quantity comments. We are close to the end and, in many ways, that’s scary and sad. (Part of me doesn’t want this story to end. And yes, I know that’s ridiculous.)
Since we may never get the final book, I just want the televised conclusion to be amazing and overwhelming. More often than not, I am disappointed by the “ends” of great shows. I want GOT to be the exception.
King Crow,
It is better to me as well, but that means that they will skip Emmys in 2017 and they don’t want that.
Flayed Potatoes,
Its not the stopping at 8 seasons that has people upset. That’s fine. It’s one more season than we had originally expected a year ago. I dont think anyone expected more than 8.
The issue is with them doing two short seasons. 7 episodes and then wait almost a year for the final 7? Gods, that would suck. 10 episodes seems plenty short enough as it is. I think given all the ASOIAF world building details that they have to work with, they can squeeze in those 3 episodes in each of the final two seasons.
If they go through with this, I would atleast want a couple of longer episodes. Maybe longer finales dfor S7 and S8. Give us something.
Shaz,
Will maybe that because she’ll never be the Queen of Weastrose??!
Maybe the ruler of Weastrose will be someone else?!
Seriously I can’t see her as a Queen of Weastrose!
The ruler of Weastrose should be someone who is actually from Weastrose, Dany is actully from Essos no matter how many people keep saying otherwise. And she’s not a good ruler, she couldn’t rule the masters and the slaves in Mereen how she will rule the great houses of Weastrose?!
And why people think she’ll help in fighting the Others? Because of the dragons? , the Northern people has magic of their own , and they have handled a situation like this before without using any Valarian magic, and I think they’ll do it again
Dany is belong in Essos and I think they need her there , not in Weastrose.
*Sorry for my English
Quinton O’Connor (formerly Jeff O’Connor! No more!),
I hope so, i’m really curious on how they plan on handling this.
What about 7+7 instead of 7+6? It’s a symbolic number!
I would love for them do that! I really want to see Robert’s Rebellion, The Dance of Dragons. Could you imagine? People riding dragons fighting each other! Would be amazing.
A full final season of 14 episodes, 60-70 minutes long (many episodes of GOT are around 50 minutes, not even a full hour) may be exactly what they need.
If they were to do this, would that mean that the Wall will go down at the end of Season 6? And mostly center around the Long Night and fight against the White Walkers?
I would love this show to run for as long as possible because I just loooove it. What are we gonna do when it ends? 🙁
I trust D&D and whatever they decide will be epic 🙂
It could end up being like that. They don’t have anything finalized.
The last 13 episodes will probably be rushed then. And also, season 6 will still draw from material of the Dance of Dragons/Feast for Crows. That means WoW/DoS will only be presented in a greatly condensed form.
I’d also rather have them doing 20 episodes. I’d rather have that than increasing scale. I’ll also be happy to wait 1,5 years for 10 episodes instead of the usual one…
If either half of the final season is only 6 episodes, that’s going to be outrageously bad. Mad Men was bad enough with 7/7. I can’t imagine waiting an entire year for 6 measly episodes.
I don’t know how I’m going to break this news to my dad. He already thinks its a joke that he has to wait a year for 10 episodes.
You have to also consider that they’ll start filming later in the year than usual because they need cold weather for all the WW battles in Westeros. There simply won’t be time to film 10 episodes and get all the post-production done until April.
I’d rather take 7 episodes a year that are well-executed, rather than 10 episodes made in a rush.
Walkers and Dragons in Westeros are coming sooner then most expected is my guess. Glad to see it. Things need to come to an end sooner rather then dragging it out….
I’m not going to say “I CALLED IT! I TOLD YOU THEY WOULD DO THIS! HAHAHAHAHAHA! TAKE THAT, NOOBS!” because that would be in poor taste.
orange,
Pretty sure none of that is true. Benioff and Weiss have never floated the idea of 9 or 10 seasons as far as I’m aware. They’ve been saying 70-80 hours as long as I can remember
As for this news, I’m not sure. It would be frustrating, but I can see it working out.
Well darn, I have to wait over a year for Doctor Who and am still waiting for the final (split) season of Hell on Wheels, and now the possibility of a split GOT looms, I don’t find that appealing. The more time passes the less people care.
Or they could do a 10-episode season 7 and a three hour movie instead of season 8. It would be amazing to watch the final battle on the big screen.
Correct, they have said many times that the show will likely last 70 to 80 episodes.
Now they are saying around 73 episodes. It’s right in line with what they have been saying for a long time. The only problem is that episodes are taking longer to make….
The Dance of Dragons would be epic. The only disadvantage would be the expenses, since they’ll have more dragons to CGI. Either way, I think it would be a success. And two of the episodes better be called “Blood and Cheese” and “The Hour of the Wolf” lmao. Honestly, since that Histories and Lore clip came out I’ve had the whole thing planned in my head.
Robert’s Rebellion would be less expensive to make (no WW and dragons, and they can reuse more costumes and sets), but they can focus on giving us some amazing battle scenes to make up for it. The Battle of the Trident and The Sack of KL would be insane. Not to mention you’d have young Ned, Robert, Tywin, and so on.
That doesn’t make sense. If they’re taking LONGER to do FEWER episodes, then by definition it will be the opposite of rushed.
Robert’s Rebellion or Dunk & Egg would be the logical next choice for a Westeros series on HBO….
Look, I think my initial reaction (like many of the commenters) was disappointment. I love the show, and gobble up pretty much everything to do with it.
However, when I think about it this may be the correct decision. D&D have made some divisive comments over the last few months, and it is very clear that they are incredibly exhausted (and who can blame them?). Some would say you simply replace them, but that wouldn’t solve the problem as it isn’t just them who is exhausted but the entire crew and cast (plus it would be incredibly disrespectful).
Furthermore, I think we’re all expecting some massive battles in these last few episodes. Battles take a long time to film (see Bastardbowl), but these battles are likely to be even more complex with White Walkers, dragons, and the full effects of winter. They’re really going to eat up both time and money.
Also it would be foolish for the series to go on once the endgame has happened. Yes, it’s great having x talk to y about Z but once the endgame has happened most people won’t care. We also need to remember that these plot lines are converging, so there will be a lot of characters in the same location at the end.
We know that production for Season 7 is going to start later this year, so it’s not going to premiere in April. I would personally have a 16 episode final season with 8 episodes debuting in September 2017 and 8 debuting in May 2018. They would then be able to film 75% (of all 16 episodes) of this between September 2016 and April 2017, and then the remainder between September 2017 and January 2018, and have time to do effects before each premiere.
Woah..long post, but basically I’ll support them whatever they choose to do. They’ve earnt it.
The problem is that those would be all plot and no story. What is making Thrones so successful is the story: and trying to impose a story onto existing plot almost never works. (This is why prequels are such a bad idea in general!)
The Blood of Winterfull,
We don’t even know for sure if she really grew up in Braavos. So you can’t say “she is from Essos”.
An with the dragons having so much importance both in the books and in the show do you really think they won’t have an important part in the ending, the fight against the WW?
Wow, this is huge. To me this is the biggest news of the season (so far), sorry Jon Snow. Hard to imaging that by the end of season 6 we would only be a little more than 1 season away from the end.
This. I like this. Let’s do this, please 🙂
The Bastard,
Thank u, there’s no need for me to type it now
My OCD won’t allow it, it MUST stay at 10 per Season. 🙁
Are you fucking kidding me? 13 eps instead of 20? The ending would feel rushed if they did that! Not buying it and I doubt HBO will let that happen. All that $$$ they’re raking in, they can pull off producing twenty eps over two years. HBO has nothing even close to GoT to carry the network after it ends.
This might not be so bad… Imagine if these were films. Essentially we get 5 GOT films every year! In those terms it’s pretty exciting. And if they only give us 3-4 feature film length stories for seasons 7 & 8 would it really be so bad?
The Bastard,
Lots of people go on about the Roberts Rebellion series, but it would be pointless. We know too much about it, and we will see too many of the things that could be included (e.g. ToJ) for it to work. Has The Hobbit taught us nothing?
Dunk and Egg would be fine, but let’s be honest, prequels/spinoffs seldom work because we have already watched the ‘main’ event. Yes, the überfans like us will watvh any spinoff, but the casual fans? I wouldn’t be so certain.
One big issue might be getting key actors back for an 8th season: if I remember correctly, then the actors are signed through one more year. If they basically do 1.5 more seasons, then they might be better able to get what they need from all the actors.
Haha, all those people counting the minutes of each individual episode this season (Not enough!).
And now this news/speculation.
I think it is a good sign. Better that they stay focused on what they want than get tempted to drag it out and make it bloated.
Plenty of good series are 6 episodes like the Night Manager and Top of the Lake.
Not necessarily. They are probably drafting the whole ending now.
Maybe I’m showing my age, but it doesn’t seem like that long ago that TV shows typically had 20-30 episodes a year — admittedly their hour broadcasts had some time taken up by commercials, but that’s still 16-24 hours of content a year. Some of them had to use what were at that time cutting edge, labor intensive special effects (the various Star Trek series, Babylon 5, Quantum Leap, and many others). You could argue that these shows cut corners occassionaly by reusing shots, etc, but GOT cuts corners too. Remember the Battle of Winterfell they were building up to for an entire season and then decided not to show because it was too expensive? So I’m puzzled when various GOT stakeholders claim it’s so incredibly hard to produce 10 hours of content a year.
Is it because of all the glitzy costumes, having to line up eye candy willing to take their clothes off, and insistence on shooting on location, etc? I’d rather have them cover more of the story, even if it comes at the expense of some of the glitz and glamor.
I wonder how many characters will survive to season 7.
I’ll hold out that HBO will be able to negotiate them into doing 8+8. It’s 16 vs 13 but three episodes could be the difference between smaller character moments being totally scrapped. I have no concerns about them being able to hit the plot points they have in mind, but I could see them feeling entirely rushed. For instance a lot of people complain about the Stannis arc in season 5, but I have no issue with what happened on paper. It was plotted well enough. But the final decision Stannis made felt rushed because there weren’t multiple episodes of him and his army being decimated by a snow storm. They skipped over all of these moments and just inserted 20 good men to get where they needed to be in the plot.
If they only have 13 episodes to go, I’m afraid everyone will be on jet packs, small character moments will be few, character motivations won’t feel earned, and we will simply go from big plot moment to big plot moment. They will hit all of the plot points, but will the nuance and emotional resonance be satisfying? I don’t have the confidence that they can pull that off. 6 episode season arcs are difficult for any tv writer to pull off.
I totally understand that it’s going to be extremely hard to film later in the year and still release on schedule. But this is one of the biggest shows in tv history, and I would hate to see it follow down the same road as other high profile shows and have unsatisfying endings, especially if they are due to behind the scenes issues like scheduling, and especially when this could potentially be the only version of this endgame we are going to get.
I think 8 episodes of Danys invasion and WWw invasion, and another 8 for a more reflective season of concluding storylines could work. Don’t know that 6 and 7 could.
Dunk and Egg is a series of novellas though. There’s an actual story with characters and dialogue there.
I’m more optimistic than you and I think they could make some great spin-offs if they get good writers, directors and so on. I personally see this as building a universe like the one Disney is trying to make with Star Wars (Rogue One is technically also a prequel) or like the one Marvel is doing on Netflix (since this is TV and all).
I don’t know much about TV production, but couldn’t they use locations where it is colder and snowing when they need it? Or is there too much “filming infrastructure ” they’d need to replace?
I’m starting to warm up to the idea of an abbreviated season with all the posters talking about the WW. The Wall is totally falling!
Ser Roger Sterling,
Spinoffs
Glad I’m a book reader it’s so much better! Happy I got to see some of the book come to life but so much has been left out and so much more will be left out if they finish in the next 23 episodes.
“Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we’ll be next. Likely I’ll be the first too. ‘Edd’ they’ll say, ‘dying’s no excuse for laying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you’ve got the watch tonight.’ Well, I shouldn’t be so gloomy. Might be I’ll die before they work it out.”
No, I don’t remember anything like that happening.
Bronn’s Bro,
Hold your horses… They said they “considering an abbreviated end game”, nothing more at this point. It might happen, it might not. If they need a mid-range movie schedule for the next two seasons to be 10 episodes long HBO might give them the time. Netflix has done it with Marco Polo season 2, Master of None season 2 and it looks like so will they with Sense8 season 2. Even HBOs own The Sopranos had an one year break between season 5 and season 6 part 1 (but if IIRC that was because of off camera stuff, not because the creators needed more time). – Point is, giving D&D more time for season 7 and 8 if they really need and want it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.
Yeah you understood me wrong, should’ve explained it better.
Maybe the better word would be “crammed”. Too much will happen in one episode, which often makes it feel rushed if you get what I mean.
The problem is they just can’t complete 13 episodes in that timeframe. What they’re saying is they can’t even do 10. I’d rather wait and get it in all one shot. None of this Breaking Bad/Mad Men shit.
Flayed Potatoes,
From what I’ve seen in the making ofs specials, they dont need it to be cold/winter time to shoot white walker scenes, or any snow scenes.
Even if they did, they could go ahead and shoot the rest of the scenes in the sumer/early fall as usual, then finish the white walker scenes in the winter. Again I haven’t seen anything that looks like they’ve needed actual cold weather to shoot those scene, but it wouldn’t be that big of an obstacle to work around even it that were true.
I think it’s ok to just call this what it is- they’re afraid they’re running out of material and dont want fan fatigue in the final season(s). I personally think that theres plenty of material that they could expand into, be it more flashbacks or side stories that fans have been clamoring for for years. It might be considered “filler” by some, but a lot of the die hard fans would certainly appreciate it.
Wimsey,
So you didn’t watch last season?
One possibility would be for them to take more time shooting and have the Final Season 7 start later. It depends on how much time additional episodes add to filming … probably not much compared to the overhead of getting the crews and casts into the right locations to film the season regardless of how many episodes it has.
They could film in Iceland (like they did on seasons 2 and 3), but they might also need to reuse locations like Winterfell, the Wall, KL, and so on (depending on where the WW go). Not all the characters will be out on the field fighting, so they’ll need to find refuge somewhere. In my opinion at least.
You’re not showing your age. It wasn’t that long ago.
Funny that just a few years ago, a split season was Battlestar Galactica spreading 20 episodes out over 2 years (10/10). Now the standard season is 10-13 episodes, and 6-7 episodes a year has become “acceptable” to people.
It makes me wish I had enough self restraint to not watch the first half until 2018 (or whenever the final half airs). A potential 6 episode “season” will only serve to annoy me.
Nothing is set in stone yet, so why don’t we calm down for a second lol
but I do enjoy reading the comments XD
It’s not that big of a surprise. If you think about it, they simply won’t have the time to pull off a 10 episodes season anymore. The scale will increase radically when the show will reach its endgame
A lot of casual watchers are asking 20 episodes a season…so little they know.
I’m sure we could crowd fund a fake snow machine 😉
Or maybe they can front-load all the indoor and studio shots. Just sayin’.
Lol. Love when people say the ending will feel rushed when we actually don’t know what the ending is. The only two people who do know the ending are also the ones who are saying they are 13 hours away from it. So there you go: there are 13 hours of this story left necessary to tell the ending… the ending that they know…regardless of how you, me, or anyone else is picturing it.
crimethink,
The battle of winterfell wasn’t too expensive, they just saved the main battle of the north for this season. Would have seemed a bit redundant to have two huge battles basically fighting to uproot the boltons from power (this is why they made Stannis lose very easily). They want to give that storyline to Sansa and the other northern loyalists to have a bigger emotional impact.
Dolorous Edd,
The books are great, yes. I haven’t got around to reading the last two in the series…mainly because the creator has been tying himself in knots trying to make the gazillion different plots work together.
I hope you enjoy TWOW (as do I), because that’s the last book in the ASOIAF series that will be published.
D&D are at least trying to finish GoT, even if it ends up killing them (which is ironic really given what George is, or isn’t doing).
10 months. But yeah, still long enough.
Ron Snow,
Someone posted a link where
And “winter is coming” (I couldn’t help myself, sorry). All of Westeros should be covered in show by then.
I’m fine with it. They need to wrap this story up.
I’m just not okay with two shortened seasons. I don’t believe there’s not enough material for 20 episodes. If they need a few extra months to produce ten, give them a few extra months. But please don’t cut back on material. C’mon people, it’s the biggest TV show EVER – fan fatigue is not gonna happen.
John M W,
Supernatural has like 23 episodes every season and is in it’s 11th season, and still thriving. Theres plenty of other shows out there that have 20+ episodes every season.
Even The Walking Dead has 16 epsides in a season and a few of those each season are longer episodes.
Obviously most of these shows dont have the insane budget expenses that GoT has, though.
How did TV shows shoot 20-30 episodes a season in the past then?
As a fan of the show, the emotional part of me is disappointed with this news. I want as much Thrones as I can get!
But as a fan of the story and it’s characters, I want a satisfying ending more than anything else. If 13 episodes after Season 6 is all they feel they need to do to finish the story, then do it. Their version of the story has been good so far, so let them finish it on their terms.
Probably. But they might also say they want realistic conditions to make everything feel more authentic or something lmfao. Or they probably don’t want to spend a lot of money on fake snow and focus on wights, WW, and dragons.
And, regardless of where they’re shooting, if we’re getting WW battles, those will take a long time to film and edit in post-production either way.
Breaking Bad fans waited a whole year for 8 episodes and we know how that turned out…it’s widely considered as the greatest stretch of episodes in the history of television.
This. Lol
crimethink,
These shows are not even close to the level of production that Thrones have.
Ron Snow,
I can’t speak to Supernatural as I’ve never seen it, but The Walking Dead has decreased markedly in quality as plot points continue to be recycled over and over again. As a former fan of that show, it would pain me greatly if Thrones followed the same path.
They’re cheaper to make, don’t take long to film and don’t have as many special effects.
HousePotterz,
Judging by their comments I’m not sure that they feel they only need 13 episodes to finish the series, but that they only are able to do roughly 13 and still stay on schedule. I think that is a big difference.
8/8 is better than 6/7 (or 7/6). If they were talking about 8 episode halves, I’d be moderately okay with it. Outlander worked with a split 16 episode first season as well.
But even 7/7 (like Mad Men did) is just more frustrating than satisfying.
Not getting my money (if they choose that path). Can’t you read? 🙂
How can anybody say the show will feel rushed with only 13 more episodes after this season is over?
1) We have no clue how many characters will die in season 6.
2) We have no clue how much progress the plot will make by the end of season 6.
3) We have no clue what the actual end game is.
Just keep in mind that the last 2 seasons there will be LESS characters with MORE of them coming together in the same scenes. This means the show will go at a faster pace naturally.
As somebody who was worried about the show going 8 full seasons…. I am very happy about the news here.
Sad to hear, but I agree that it would probably just not be possible to film enough footage for ten hours. They’re already struggling for time and with the endgame being most likely very battle heavy, those scenes take even longer to film.
You also have to consider that they have to film a lot of that stuff in winter, so they can’t just film all 13 episodes at once and release them later. You have to take a break either way, might as well structure around that so you don’t have a two year wait. I’m fine with that if it ensures the quality of the remaining episodes.
Remember the vision she had in the House of the Undying with the Red Keep destroyed and abondoned? The logical takeaway from that is that the Seven Kingdoms won’t exist any more by the time Dany takes KL. Most likely Cersei will burn the whole city to the ground (either at the end of this season or in the earlier episodes of season 7) and I don’t think there will be a successor after Tommen’s eventual death, effectively destroying the Kingdom of the Iron Throne.
There would have to be a great council because there’s no legal heir available – House Baratheon is extinct (technically, you could simply take Gendry, ignore that he’s a bastard and give him the crown no matter what, but it’s not looking like that’s what’s going to happen as few characters even know he exists) – but that can’t really happen with the current state of affairs.
Still, someone needs to fill the power vacuum and lead the human side in the war, so that might make for an interesting competition between Jon and Dany.
I don’t really see that as a potential problem going forward. First, they decided to show larger chunks of a plot and just leave it out the next episode, to make it feel less fractured and all-over-the-place like season two and I think that worked pretty well over the last two seasons.
Besides, we most likely won’t have that many characters in different places. First, we probably won’t have that many characters, period. We’ll know better after that season, but I’m sure the show will crop its cast a decent amount. Secondly, the remaining characters probably aren’t going to be in that many different locations. Most of them most likely will be teaming up to fight the WWs, while the rest will join Dany on her way up to the same battlefront. Maybe you get some subplots like a couple of characters being sent to Dragonstone to acquire more dragon glass, but most of the action will focus on the big war itself.
I don’t really buy the part about multiple battles being redundant. But the BOW was just a symptom of a larger disease. The Battle at the Fist also happened offscreen, Dany’s conquests of Astopor or Yunkai, along with all of Robb Stark’s battles for that matter. The only battles we’ve seen were Blackwater, Castle Black, and Hardhome. Even if you throw in Stannis crushing the Wildlings in 10 seconds, that’s more battles offscreen than onscreen. I get that battle scenes are expensive and time-consuming to produce, but this is less than one a season and they’re still complaining about not having enough time.
I’m not so sure. Once you correct for the technological advances of the past 20 years, I think Star Trek: The Next Generation (for example) could go toe to toe with Game of Thrones in terms of quality any day. Especially with the amount of action that GOT just shows the aftermath of or has characters talk about after the fact.
I bet during this negotiation phase, HBO will at the very least consider floating the idea of making a full feature film. I remember way back then, the idea was rumored about the Sopranos having a full feature film. HBO has already experimented with putting Thrones on the big screen (and my theater was packed to see those two episodes in Imax when I went) and if push comes to shove, I could see them wanting to be the first television network to put out a blockbuster on the big screen. This is the biggest show internationally, so if ever there was a show to try it with, it’s this.
I doubt it actually happens but I definitely could see HBO flirt with the idea of two split seasons and then a full feature film that could release in the summer.
The Bastard,
That’s a false choice. HBO is making bank off the show. They could pay for quantity and quality both.
I would be pushing for 15 seasons if I were thee guys.
Basically have the #1 TV show of all time, and you are considering cutting it short? Sounds like a plan to me.
If Dany doesnt make it to Westeros this season, that leaves 13 episodes for her to do something (assuming she even makes it???) So what, she shows up, rides dragons, kills shit and… probably doesnt ever sit on the throne..
To be honest, Arya’s story is more entertaining at this point.
mau,
There is enough story for two more seasons – all the things that GRRM had planned in Wow and DoS. Plenty.
How many times can you see a guy get stabbed by a sword? What makes GoT great is that we don’t see every since battle. If we did, it would be The Walking Dead…. and the fighting in that show got boring 3 seasons ago….
Plot over violence…. with violence in there when necessary.
HousePotterz,
Supernatural was a solid show with a good concept for awhile, but I’ve lost count how many times the 2 main characters have died and come back to life. It’s around 500 or so and I haven’t watched it in like 5 seasons so I cant speak to the recent stuff. 95% of the people that watch that show are girls who think the main characters are hot and that’s why. I used to be a fan of TWD as well, but agreed with your statement. Also there’s like 3 or 4 episodes a year that just feel like pure filler.
Night’s King is my bae,
Excuse me? You don’t seem very bright or even educated. I love everything about the show even the 10 episode format. You disrespect me because I won’t support with my money something I dislike? Ugh, these people.
Who knows how this is going to go. First we heard 7 seasons, FLAT. They stuck to that for a long time. Then we heard 8 seasons. Now we’re hearing 7.5 basically.
D&D are obviously exhausted to some extent. I’m sure the crew is. I’m sure some in the cast also would love to do other things (although this is a nice massive payday). None of this seems set in stone though.
For those who think there’s just too much story left to tell – possibly. That’s why you have to hope GRRM actually writes that story. The show would’ve never done every storyline anyway.
You don’t know how much steam this show has left…
And, honestly, there was no reason from a character standpoint to spend time on the battle. Who were we rooting for exactly? The psychotic ***hole who who just raped a main character and has been torturing another – or the guy who just burned his daughter at the stake?
By that point in the story, the outcome of the battle was a forgone conclusion and taking the time to show it just for the sake of showing a battle would have simply wasted screen time.
Laura,
Ser Roger Sterling,
Can’t get blood out of a rock. If D&D are saying the curtain closing is on the horizon, then it is what it is. Quality>quantity
Battles can certainly be overdone, but seeing the White Walkers and their wights fight the Nights Watch, or Tywin Lannister and/or Robb Stark in even one battle, would have enhanced those seasons, no?
Good point, but if we follow the logic then Stannis’ entire arc in Season 5 was fairly pointless… and wasted a lot more screen time than a battle would have.
This news worries me. While I trust in their judgement that they will do what is best for the show, I can’t help feel that 13 episodes for S7/8 will be really rushed. I’m assuming Dany leaves Essos at the end of S6, but surely if she needs to travel to Westeros, have meaningful interaction with the characters there (surely she needs enough time to revise her opinion on the ‘usurper’s dogs’ offspring and ally with them against the WW), and then fight the WW and eventually may or may not end up on the throne; 13 episodes does not seem enough. Unless they pull a surprise on us and have her arrive in Westeros during the latter end of S6.
When you consider all the other characters and storylines that also need a satisfactory ending I can’t help but be afraid there will not be enough time. Or that character development and character interactions (personally my favorite part of the show) will be downgraded in favour of the big actions sequences that are going to have to happen.
But it is what it is, they have done a good job thus far and if they think they can wrap it up satisfactorily in abbreviated seasons then I have to trust they can.
Personally, I would rather wait 18 months and have the remaining 13 episodes all in one go, rather than 13 episodes over two years.
The Bastard,
OK, I know we were supposed to stop this, but the Stannis in my head compels me to respond: FEWER characters.
Robb Stark never had a battle in the books since he was not a POV character. Neither did Tywin Lannister. And the White Walkers vs. The Nights Watch also was never a battle in the books. They put Stannis in the front of the battle for the show, but in the books he stayed back.
Actually, keeping the White Walkers more mysterious is actually a good thing here.
In brighter news the NFL season schedule dropped tonight
How do you all know how much it is left ? Martin told the last two books should be megahuge, and the show made it only with a season 1 to make a full first book in screens. Season 3 stops at 3/4 oft the 3rd book. So 80 episodes were perfect, they just shouldn’t habe cut major plots like Griff or Quentyn
I’m totally fine with this. As much as the fan in me wants more more more, there’s a bigger part of me that wants quality. Taking more time to do less episodes is exactly how quality is achieved.
I don’t care for plots that lead nowhere. I’m fine with no Aegon, Quentyn, Harry the heir. And I love George and have read the books more times than I can count, but A Dream of Spring is likely far FAR away. If D&D are going to create the ending for this series within this decade, then I’d rather they take their time. If they don’t need 20 episodes, then so be it. They know the ending, they know how far they’ll get in Season 6, so if 13 is all they need then I’m fine with it.
Also, this makes me think that they’ll employ Bran’s flash forward visions more than we think. That way they can show future events without having to completely build up to it. Fans will already know where things have to head and will build the story in their heads of how the characters get there. It’ll let the future events marinate with fans during the season breaks.
I Dream of Spring,
It was confirmed by Los Siete Reinos that Dany will still be in Meereen in 6×10.
crimethink,
I actually like the fact that they didn’t show some of the other battles. It gives the battles they show more overall impact. The fist of the first men thing cannot be a complaint after hardhome though. The budget has also reason since season 1,2,3, so they can use it for more battles now. Watchers on the wall, and Blackwater, were pivotal points to the story that had a huge impact both emotionally and to the narrative.
Shawn,
Your assuming that the show will keep it’s appeal for 15 seasons. The essence of the show will be lost if it goes on too long. We all want it to last forever, but we really need it to end soon, so that we can appreciate it and look back at it with fondness. You don’t want the show to become as shitty as most of these network drama shows
This is beginning to sound like a rush job to me 🙁
If you think George matters at this point you are lying to yourself. The man will finishes the story in 2023 if we’re lucky.
Be realistic.
Or just do one season of 13 episodes and take your time making them, do a summer/fall release if they need that extra time. I’d rather they not pull a Sopranos and Breaking Bad by splitting the final arc into two Seasons/Season 7A/B 🙁
Shawn,
15 seasons? Arya/sansa would have to take time off for maternal leave
The showrunners know what they’re doing no matter what the outcome is. However, I was personally hoping for one longer final season in place of 2 shorter ones. If they think the show will be done after 13 more episodes, I’d rather have a 13-episode season 7 (even if that means waiting until May for the start of the season) instead of waiting 2 full years to see how the show will end.
Lets wait until season 6 is over before freaking out, lol
They know the end, we don’t. We don’t know where season 6 is taking us, so lets wait
House de Laguna,
That would mean 18 months to wait at the very least. Nope, this is not happening.
You’re right, it’s not set in stone Dany will ever come to Westeros. But personally, I’d find it a little disappointing if those enormous dragons of hers did nothing else of interest but spend the rest of their lives flapping around Slavers Bay, eating the odd sheep.
And there is the HotU vision that shows Dany in the throne room at KL with snow coming down.
I’d be really surprised if she stays in Essos until the end of the series.
crimethink,
I honestly believe that Stannis’s entire point was to get Melisandre and possibly Davos to the wall where the real battle is. It was never about Stannis, he’s never had a shot.
I’d say if they need time, make 9 seasons. 7-7-6 episodes
Ok, I think we start a Kickstarter for an additional unit (The Merman Unit?) . Who’s with me?
Regardless what happens, I am thankful for this show and don’t want to seem ungrateful. I just want it to end in spectacular fashion. A 6 episode season next year just sounds like a real bummer but we get what we get.
I Dream of Spring,
Now that would be an anticlimax for the ages.
Dany could make it to Westeros with her dragons and then get killed. Westeros would have to deal with both White Walkers and dragons without a “mother”.
I’ve always thought we would see this happen, but who knows.
Not true. I never said that Stannis wasn’t an interesting character. His story in S5 was fantastic. But once he makes that fateful decision to sacrifice Shireen, he’s both lost our sympathy and is pretty much marching to his death. Showing the battle serves little purpose other than showing off a large budget. The only thing we really need to see (both narratively and emotionally) at that point is his encounter with Brienne.
Correct. Stannis was one giant plot device…. in a fun and entertaining way….
Are you a walking dead fan ? Just interested in your education level
Shaz,
Preach !
I’m in denial….
Pounce,
18 months? Yeah if we wait 9 a year for season 7 and 8, would not take 18 months to produce a 13 episode season 15 months at most, thus the summer/fall release.
At the end of day it’s the books that ultimately matter anyhow
Ok Thanks 🙂
Yeah because Star Trek shot on multiple continents, had 3 units filming simultaneously, and had a cast as large and diverse as GoT…
Pounce,
what else was confirmed by Los Siete Reinos ?
HahaHa this is the must bizarre thing a ever read in my got time.
13 episodes??? With only the book 3 they made 2 seasons and still was left s lot of things. This is completely bullshit, if they are tired and cant handle it anymore just leave the show. Season 6 still will have book 4 and 5 and like some part of book 6.
Will be left rest of book 6 and all the book 7. In 13 episodes??? HahHAha. Thats a really good joke.
And someone here said that we dont have history for 20 episodes. True. We have for like more 40. Book 3 made 2 seasons and with a lot of things missing, rest of book 6 and all the book 7 can make muchhh more than 13 apisodes. Of course will be rushed as f#%* ,OR ,wont be rushed but they will cut a lot of important things from the books.
House de Laguna,
We waited 10 months for Season 6. If they shoot the last thirteen episodes of the series in a row, I can safely say that it will take 18 to 20 months to unleash these beasts.
The crew would be BEYOND exhausted I don’t think it’s possible even if they’re the best in the industry, Season 6 almost “killed” them apparently.
almost forgot, 9 days left until season 6 starts 😀
Pounce,
Yeah they confirmed Dany is in Meereen, but also that it’s for a battle. So I very much anticipate that Dany will set sail from Meereen in that episode. Or at least decide to do it finally. That way we can begin season 7 with her landing or about to land in Westeros.
But you have to actually film the stuff, which requires a certain kind of weather. You can’t film the battle against the WWs or other outdoors winter scenes in July. I also assume that getting all the equipment and extras for those scenes to Iceland is a logistic nightmare, so you pretty much have to do most of that stuff in Northern Ireland. Apparently you can do some trickery (white powder, digital effects) to replace the snow (like how they did with Bastard Bowl, which was filmed in NI with no snow), but you still need the leaves to fall from the trees and the like so it can plausibly pass for winter.
We also won’t have many locations like Essos in the final seasons, which means that you can no longer use three teams and have one of them shoot in Spain or Croatia. And then even the previously warmer areas like the Vale will be covered in snow, which makes thing even worse.
You can only get 2-3 minute per day for an action scene, which means that shooting 13 battle heavy episodes that mostly play in heavy winter just can’t be done in a couple of months. You have to do that over two years and take a break in warm weather. But if you have to do that, you can just as well finish 7 episodes, release them and repeat that next year, which is exactly what D&D are doing.
Why are so many people saying that the production for S7 will start later? Did I miss something?
While this news is a bit disappointing, I understand why they are doing it. The action we will be seeing in the coming seasons will be much bigger and that much harder for them to bring out 10 episodes with the same production qualities. I don’t mind the lesser number of episodes, what matters is the ending should be satisfactory. Still I am hoping for atleast 8+7 episodes!
Aguero,
Book 7 doesn’t f*cking exist and probably never will, I don’t get why some people are bringing this into the conversation all the time.
The show is not counting on the books ANYMORE, the ship has sailed. You have to accept it once and for all as painful as it sounds.
You rely on a guy who thinks ten season is a good idea FFS.
Ser Creighton Longbough,
Fewer
I’m totally OK with it. I’ve long thought that a split 7th season/abbreviated 7th and 8th, was the way to go. I think so because there really doesn’t seem to be that much material left after this season. Everyone is proceeding towards the end of their arcs.
Also, CGI. That last season will need a lot of CGI.
Frankly I’m on the fence, but this isn’t really upsetting news;
the thing that would make us revolt is “Seventh season, of ten episodes, is the last season”
So we’re still getting 8 seasons. I acknowledge they physically can’t make more than 10 episodes per year.
So if what they’re saying is along the lines of “quality over quantity” in terms of scale, whatever — it’s how the chapter breaks line up (Season 5 showed us you can only cram so much into a 10 episode stretch – in many ways I’d rather that Season 5 had been split into two, 6-7 episode seasons aired across two years, not that this is realistic).
But the only takeaway I get from Variety’s comments is what you said: “ideas are in flux, and we’re figuring it out”.
Yeah dissapointed at the idea of lack of content
But if fewer episodes (making it closer and closer to a mini-series) means the nature of the content actually allows for large battles etc and a larger sense of scale than I would accept that
Besides, it tends to be about wrapping it all up as opposed to facilitating the drama and new plot points, so the later episodes will be more “to the point”
And of course there is quality control, looking at those behind the scenes vids the past few weeks I am happy to accept what they can give us as long as it is to standard
Think they’ve made it pretty clear that’s impossible from a logistics stand point and maintain the level of quality they want.
There is a general sense that with the story where it’s at and its pace, GRRM would require more than two books to finish and untangle everything
Naturally would have to see where we are at by the end of this season but it could be the last of the major inter-House story development (eg plots are folding in on themselves, eg Ramsay and Theon destroying the Starks and taking Winterfell, Red Wedding and perhaps the Lannisters slowly being squeezed out of KL and back to CR), perhaps Season 7 just deals with the Others rolling over the wreck of what is left of Westeros after all the infighting and then Season 8 is the fight back to preserve something that may remain of the future
I’m OK with shorter seasons as long as they can wrap it up decently and it doesn’t go the way Lost did.
Nikolas,
You should consider this from a plotting point. Two seasons = two opportunities for arcs.
Ideally (for me), season 7 would end with:
– Sansa killing Littlefinger;
– Arya slaughtering the Freys;
– Jaime and Cersei killing each other;
– Dany destroying Euron and a brainwashed dragon, meeting Sam and landing in the abandoned King’s Landing.
Meanwhile, S8 would be the CGI-fest.
Fewer. Sorry, had to. News like this puts me in a Stannisesque teeth grinding mood.
I love the show and could happily watch many more seasons. But the reason I love the show is because of the story each season tells. If the showrunners feel that the story has only so much more mileage, then I trust their judgment to tell it to us in whatever amount of time they see fit.
If D&D are indeed considering less than 20 episodes after Season 6, then I expect the last part of Season 6 to have many more SERIOUS events than I thought. Like the Wall going down is a possibility at the very end of Season 6 or early season 7.
Now I am expecting many more to die this season than I had expected. Davos will be a goner in the Northern storyline, probably…… 🙁
Surely Stannis also played a part in playing his own game of thrones, going against Renly and not allying with him, thereby handing the Lannisters a non-united Baratheon front, and helping them win, thus leaving KL in the hands of the Lannisters.
I really respect their decision to end it on their terms. No series, no matter how strong, should stay too long at the party. If this was about money, then they would just let it run until the show ran out of gas. But knowing the ending, and what’s in S6, they obviously feel the end is in sight, and this isn’t just best for the show, but for the show’s enduring legacy.
Good folks,
if they say that 13 episodes are about to be produced, I think its really keen regarding the fact that good ole G. R. R. has to compose the stuff beforehand. Season 6 already catched up with the books, so how to deal with that?
Though knowing that Benioff is a unique writer, I don’t see an end to that. After all its Smith’s labour. And intelligent writing takes its time. If they don’t want to press the matter on the costs of quality they should really be careful about these schedules.
It would be sad, if we saw a unspirited final where we experienced all the love and labour that they showed us in the past seasons. I know all things must come to an end.
But to speak of an end whithout knowing how it will be is real HODOR!!!
I think you’re just as likely to see that if they dragged it out beyond the point of good drama. It’s not how quickly or slowly you go, it’s going at the right time. They seem to feel the right time is on the horizon.
Ravyn,
You may be right about that. Its about knowing when you have to quit.
But my point is, it’s still a little bit early to be definite about it when the material that is to be filmed has not been written. Agree?
Just throw in three episodes of drunk Tyrion hanging out with whoever is still alive. We’d all watch.
(Pictures Metalocalypse-style fan riots)
If you’re talking about the books, no. The last one won’t be written for 10 years, if you’re luck.
If you mean the scripts for the show, D&D have always known where the end point was, and they’ve probably been eyeing it for a couple of seasons now. The article pretty clearly states because they haven’t written the scripts yet, they’re not locked into 13 episodes, just that it will be around there: ““I think we’re down to our final 13 episodes after this season. We’re heading into the final lap,” Benioff is quoted as saying. “That’s the guess, though nothing is yet set in stone, but that’s what we’re looking at.”
This makes me suspect they are further ahead in the narrative than we suspect. Sophie has suggested there are some big shocks this season, perhaps Cersie burning down kings landing or even the wall coming down might be in the offing. (Seeing Walda Frey dies would be satisfying but not what you’d call a shock). I don’t think jumping ahead would be a problem. We know the army of the dead are heading south so why hold off? Perhaps the white walkers might take a break to whittle ice spiders in the woods but I don’t think this is likely. Holding them off just doesn’t make sense. I’d rather not see ongoing fighting between the great houses after this season – unless of course it’s a suicidal act initiated by a crazy Lannister. I also think Dany arrive in a kingdom in ruins is ironic and more interesting. Just imagine if the throne room is in ruins when Dany arrives, that their is no one to fight because the real war has begun. What then would she do?
Make ’em count! 🙂
Off topic, but here’s a bit of levity: Sophie does a (pretty terrible) impersonation of Jon Snow (but she’s still adorable) : http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/04/sophie-turner-jon-snow-impression-game-of-thrones
You would think that once the wall comes down, everything after would happen pretty quickly. I’m assuming the WW & their wights don’t get tired and have to stop to sleep, eat or drink. Everyone else seems to travel around Westeros at light speed. I don’t think they would need a whole lot of episodes to reach the end once they’ve gotten through.
Shaz,
I think this means that season 6 ends with Dany finally giving up on Essos and heading home. It would be kind of awesome if that was precipitated by news of WW, but I expect she may just want out after being held captive by the Dolthraki and seeing that she cannot ruler in Mereen. But who knows? In any case, I feel surer than ever she is going home.
That should give us plenty of time for what will probably be a faster endgame than we expected. Dany won’t be in Westeros long, but the war for Middle Earth (oops, I mean Westeros) could already be in full swing. It makes sense.
Does any one else expect all the Lannisters dead by then? Except Tyrion, and maybe maybe maybe Jaime.
It seems some of you are missing the point. They barely have time to make 10 episodes a year. 13 would make the ending suck. This isn’t the walking dead or better call Saul or mad men. There is a lot more work involved.
Ravyn,
I see. You may be right about the books though.
But I think it’s the first time in film history that filming overtook writing at least for all I know.
When I read about comments on who is to capture the Iron Throne in the end, I have to ask myself, how do they know if even godfather Smith doesn’t?
‘course it’s about economy and dramaturgy as well. But still there a story to be told. And I hope they take their time in listening to the storyteller.
Do you see an alternative to that?
orange,
I for 1 also believe that by the time dany gets there westeros will be destroyed and she will have to turn back … It’s the kind of bittersweet ending that’s been hinted at she gets the throne but there’s no 1 left to rule and westeros is a frozen wasteland so she decides to take her people (whoever comes with her from across the narrow sea) back to Essos
I think Cersie will go mad and potentially be responsible for Tommen’s death. Jamie will stop her and bring his forces north. If indeed he doesn’t head north earlier.
I just got have to give Sue kudos for the use of the perfect picture of Sad Jamie above. Made me chuckle once I simmered down.
Man without banner,
I think outside of collecting checks and Emmys, Martin isn’t really involved with the show anymore. I’m sure he’s seen S6, unless he opted not to, but I think both parties have mutually acknowledged that they’re going to take separate roads to end up at the same spot. But that’s just my guess.
I think so. The wall comes down and Dany leaves Essos. That’s a hell of a season ender. Totally tops last year and sets us up for the endgame. Which is what virtually everyone has been saying this season is about. Setting up the endgame.
None of us want less GOT but it has to end. Let’s get excited for it! Personally, I could not stand waiting two years for the last season. I’d have to become a monk or something.
Ravyn,
That’ really a good point. And exactly what I presume.
GoT really became a very big thing. Far too big for one person to cary it alone.
Well we don’t know what D&D and Smith have arranged or are about to negotiate. But I’m really curious how the subject will develop in the future. Will Smith continue the story or will the story be fixed by D&D?
And still I wonder…
clouddragon,
The point is that it has become too difficult to even do 10, so if you want them to do all 13 at once, they either the quality will drop or we will have a longer wait for the next season.
That seems plausible. I like the part about Dany meeting Sam, which is what may convince her to join the fight against the WWs.
Something else: Is Sansa the mysterious figure that approaches LF in the trailer? He’s clearly standing in the godswood (compare the trees with the shots of the godswood from earlier season or watch Because Geek’s breakdown of the red band trailer where she points that out) and talking to someone dressed in black. I doubt it’s a member of the NW, Jon is wearing Stark armor by that point and the only other prominent figure up north wearing black is Sansa.
Which makes me wonder if that scene will be before the battle or after. One would assume after because how else would those two get into Winterfell otherwise, but Sue said
I’m more in the “I”d rather a final 13-ep season premiere later” camp. Winter 2017/Jan-Feb 2018 would be poetic. Winter Has Finally Come. Ripper Street is doing the 6/7 episode split over two seasons to finish its run. That 6 episodes stuff is crap. You’re just settling into the rhythm of a season, then nothing. And if you think a season ending on cliffhangers is agony, wait till the cliffhangers are story arcs stopping right in the middle.
Second choice would be an 8/8 split.
Oh man, im kind of worried about this. I hope they at least end it on a good note. Im really curious of how they will end this series and how they will kill the White Walkers.
Conan Troutman,
You may want to cover this part with the spoiler tag
On the other point, if it is indeed Sansa
Some people were also suggesting it might be Brienne who LF sees.
Who’s Smith?
It occurs to me that we are all very demanding and we are not considering the human element. This show is made by people, some of whom likely spend most of their years away from their homes and families making this for us.
I hated the short season of Boardwalk Empire, even tho the ending was reasonable enough. But I was fine with the Sopranos. So I think it could go either way. We should maybe just be grateful that such a damned good show was adapted from damned good books
Ron Snow,
I love supernatural but they have been recycling the same plot for years. One of the brothers messes up, then lies about it, then they have a falling out, then come together and fix the problem. Rinse and repeat. Game of Thrones is a whole different animal. The amount of work and attention to detail that goes into GOT is both expensive and time consuming.
Connor,
They will kill the WWs by
ghost of winterfell,
Oops. Can’t edit any more, though.
Yeah, after the battle seems more likely, but before would fit in with the spoilers. It probably doesn’t matter all that much, just trying to put everything into place.
It can’t be Brienne. The scene has to happen very late in the season and Brienne will be
by then. Also, I can’t remember ever seeing her in black. And that is clearly a black coat that person’s wearing.
orange,
Agreed. I also think back to the episode where she has a vision at the House Of The Undying and she sees the throne room completely demolished and covered in snow. Seeing her overthrow Kings Landing and become the ruler like she has over and over doesn’t seem as interesting as fighting for life and death against the WW.
Jack Bauer 24,
I meant Martin, of course! Sometimes my thoughts really start to wander off…
Smith! O my golly, not capable of multitasking that man >stupid me<.
Sorry for that one.
Night’s King is my bae,
Yes but there us the issue of her little brother. I also think cerise is heading for a major fall that is self inflicted. I don’t believe she will ever be redeemed but will be be one of the majour casualties.
Conan Troutman,
Do we know for sure that it’s late in the season? It could be the in one of the earlier episodes?Still, I don’t think that its Brienne either. My guess is it is Sansa, probably in the finale.
If a seven episode season meant fewer episodic contained plot lines, fewer locations and less physical logistics, I would love for them to be 65-70 minute episodes with longer scenes that have tha action and plot, but also cover all the beats and dialogue moments right.
I support and will see through to the end this TV production, but seven 50-54 minute episodes would be a little bit of a bummer.
I view all of this as ramping up for the Grand Finale, which everyone expects to be H-U-G-E!
The tension elevates to its highest level. Characters need to be in the right place, at the right point, in the right story arc to make perfect sense. There will be the most prolonged battle sequences too, which run up the bulk of costs. Hopefully, as they’ve been establishing it as so, we will get as much physical stuff as possible. Action must be seen to be as real as possible – right? There will be dragons, and massive by current scale, and given the rate they grow each season.
I see the sense is shorter seasons, especially with ending the show in such a way there will be….. What do I predict? Silence, at the close of the very last episode. Loud gasp, as it ought to be a spectacular, epic finale. The loudest WOW in recorded history. Then tears, as there will be heroes to mourn and, let’s not forget, we’ve all been part of TV History during the show’s run.
I’m going to wait until I’ve seen the entirety of Season 6 before I make any judgments about whether or not the rumored plan of approximately 13 more episodes will be sufficient time to wrap up the story. I have a strong suspicion that after the credits roll on Episode 10, we may be a lot closer to the endgame than some of us would like to believe.
There was a time a few years ago when Benioff and Weiss were talking about wrapping Game of Thrones up in 7 seasons, or 70 hours (“Seven gods, seven kingdoms, seven seasons”, or something to that effect). That struck me as the minimum number of hours necessary to tell this story, but I would have been happy with that if they had found a way to craft a satisfying ending in that timeframe. As such, I’m more than happy to take any additional episodes that they’re willing to create beyond that threshold (73 strikes me as kind of a weird number, but I think it’s purely the asymmetry of it. If they had said 74, 75, or 76 episodes, I doubt I’d have that feeling).
When the plan seemed to extend to 8 full seasons, or 80 hours, that sounded positively wonderful to me. But if plans have changed, so be it. I don’t want Benioff and Weiss to pad things out to reach that marker if they don’t feel it’s necessary, especially if that padding would require them to double back to book storylines that they wisely and rightly skipped.
As for concerns that they’re going to leave out too much material from the books, my response would be … um, what books? The last two? The Winds of Winter, which GRRM has yet to publish, and may not for several years? A Dream of Spring, which may never be published? The hypothetical eighth book? Right now, none of them exist. We’ve got a few hundred manuscript pages, an outline, and a set ending that Martin shared with Benioff and Weiss years ago. As for the rest, I’m not holding my breath. The show is definitely going to provide us with that ending – something I’m sadly losing confidence that the novels will ever deliver.
I don’t exactly love the possibility of shortened or split seasons, but I’m not adverse to it (it worked well for Breaking Bad – less so for Mad Men). On the other hand, I am very sympathetic to concerns about maintaining the production’s superlative level of episodic quality. By all accounts, Season 6 barely made it in under the wire in terms of the effort it took to film ten episodes in a year … and that was with the show running three units for most of principal photography, as well as HBO agreeing to give them their latest premiere date ever.
I have every confidence that Season 6 will deliver, but with future seasons likely to involve even more complicated battle sequences and post-production VFX work, I’m not surprised that they might need to cut back from ten episodes per production cycle in order to maintain and exceed the high standards they’ve set for themselves.
Ultimately, I want David Benioff and Dan Weiss to do whatever believe is best for the show. I trust them completely and implicitly. They’ve been living and breathing this story for the past decade. They know it better than anyone. The vision they’ve put forward and the work they’ve created with the help of their immensely talented cast and crew has resulted in my favorite TV show ever. I’m with them until the end, whatever and whenever they believe that end needs to be. And God willing, I’ll love every moment of the journey to that end, as I have so far. 🙂
It’s clear to me that Benioff and Weiss are ready to wrap this show up as soon as possible. The thing that fans don’t think about is that people like them who are immersed in the making of process day in and day out, year after year, are burnt the fuck out to their core. Perhaps the crew, the artisans are loving every second of it and hoping for it to go on forever, because for most of them, this will be their greatest job. For the big producers, writers, and the other major decision makers, this show probably opened up all the doors in the industry, which they are eager to explore, and rightfully so. I just want the remaining episodes, however many there are, to be top notch and to end the show on a high note. 70+ episodes for any show is a quite a lot, especially when their average rating is in the high 8s.
ghost of winterfell,
Of course we don’t know for certain. But I strongly doubt he chose the location, at least not for himself, it has to be for whoever wears that black cloak. Someone who considers it something special. Roose or Ramsay don’t fit that category either and as they hold Winterfell, they’re the only options were the scene to happen early in the season or before the battle.
So yeah, I also think it’s Sansa in the finale, with an outside chance of it leading up to that one scene Sue mentioned. Unless we see some other Stark in a black cloak, Rickon maybe? How tall is the actor?
I don’t think 13 episodes is a good idea (which isn’t even a number they’ve settled on, anyhow). We’re still frolicking about with the Ironborn and Riverrun, for heaven’s sake.
That means the
Come on…how can it be the LONG Night for only one season?
Jared,
Well said.
Read the books, and besides who`s to say there won´t be an animated cgi series (Beowulf style) of ASOIAF somwhere down the road where we get to se the entire books fully televised. We would get to see all the battles, Targs with purple eyes, direwolves, dragons …..
A man can hope. 🙂
(ﾉಥДಥ)ﾉ︵┻━┻
I f* hate split seasons! Just do one 13 episodes long season and be done with it.
I honestly prefer it this way. This means more time and resources devoted to each episode; more preparation for the writers, actors and set, costume and VFX makers. In other words, more of a movie schedule and quality, which GOT has been approaching for a while anyway, yet without the necessary time to live up to that promise. There has been an implication in the last few years that they have rushed in a few departments. This move means better crafted scripts, actors being able to rehearse, more time and money spent for each prop, each action sequence, each CGI setpiece.
Yes, it means fewer episodes of Game of Thrones than we were expecting, but considering the advantages I believe it’s a good tradeoff.
Flayed Potatoes,
I would love to see Robert’s rebellion turned into a series too. The only hindrance is that we already know how it ends. But still, the journey would be interesting enough and most importantly, it involves characters we already know and care about.
An adaptation of “Dance of Dragons”, would be great too, I guess.
Dumb and Dumber
Conan Troutman,
Possible, but not likely, I guess. If it is Rickon, then
Laura,
But that would suck waiting 2 whole years to find out how everything ends no?? Even if they put a side story out, which many show-only’s won’t care about, we’d get sidetracked, and the continuity would be broken.
By the end of season 6, a lot of characters will be dead and some of the surviving character’s plotline will converge with each other. So it make sense for them to cut it off, than to make some filler episodes or plotlines
A 6 or 7 episode season with extended premieres and finales (because 6 episodes is too few!) Might be the smartest way to go.
Think about it. As of season 7, there could be 2 or 3 battles per season. And you don’t want to skip it like the Stannis slaughter or Tyrion on the Trident, because these are going to be some very very special battles (both visually and narratively), battles we’ve been waiting for since season 1.
I imagine season 7 will have a Dany vs Euron battle in Oldtown with Dorne joining her. So that’ll be the big one. And I also see the Wall finally falling, while the Stark armies amass in the North and prepare for the White Walkers. Those will be the big ones that season. A lot of money will sink into them.
Then season 8 will include all climactic battles. Dany vs Cersei, and Dragons vs White Walkers with the North being swallowed by Winter throughout the season.
That’s going to require a ridiculous amount of money and time to film, so they literally can’t do 10 episode seasons anymore and keep raising the bar and delivering scenes we want to see. In the end, they may just end up calling it season 7 part 1 and 2 and be done with it.
They’ve wanted to make only 7 seasons (70 hours) for a long time and have been plotting the story for that, artificially stretching the plot would create a mess, and the show would not end on a high point.
I defnitely don’t want 20 episodes of White Walkers massacring people in Westeros if The Wall comes down in season 6.
They can barely produce 10 episodes a season given the budget and scope, so nope, a 13 episode season ain’t gonna happen.
Given that there are potentially just 13 episodes left, I now expect the Wall to come down on 6.10. And Danny and her army will obviously be on the ships to Westeros by season’s end as well…
People really overestimate how big TWOW is.
Size isn’t everything. ADWD is bigger then AGOT, but AGOT moves the plot 10 times faster then ADWD does. That book contains fluff, filler, pointless world building, and even more pointless characters and side plots, because Martin wrote himself into a corner.
Martin will need 4 more books to untangle the mess he made, if he keeps writing the same way he did with AFFC/ADWD.
Thankfully the show doesn’t have that problem. Minor, pointless side-stories where cut and minor, pointless characters where merged with bigger more important ones.
The show can finish much easier and faster then Martin can dream of finishing that mess he created.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
No such thing will be ever made. The books will not be finished, ever.
Deesensfan,
What are we gonna do when it ends? ?
What we’ll do is feel lost 🙁 But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The end is not come yet 🙂 And when it does we will just have to find something else fitting to watch from our virtual wall.
Dislike this. 10 episodes a season is already short enough.
This.
So much this. How is it that people think they know so much more about GRRM’s planned ending for the books?
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
You can’t imagine how exited I am for WOW. The meltdown in the hardcore book fans will be amazing.
Of course they will find a way to blame TWOW on D&D to.
I honestly don’t quite get why this is such a surprise?
D&D have been talking about “70-80 episodes” for years now…
This would literally kill me! #20episodes
Unlike ASOIAF, GOT is a condensed, fast-paced story. I’m glad D+D don’t have Martin’s mentality. AFFC and ADWD were thick volumes of barely moved plot. I’d have cut out like 60% of material from those books.
We were getting 70 hours anyway before the reports about season 8, extra 10 hours. Now we might be getting 73-75 hours. I’m fine with that. It’s a smart decision. Now, let’s see what HBO feels about that.
YgRitte,
I tried to edit my comment to remove excessive smileys and add a question but it said I “don’t have permission to edit the comment” lol. My computer is starting to act glitchy. Was wondering when I would start experiencing issues. Been getting a message that chrome is no longer supporting my OS.
GeekFurious,
It would. So I’m glad you decided not to say it 🙂
I knew nothing, except for the fact it seemed unlikely they’d be able to squeeze 20 more episodes after the 10 that are coming. I don’t see how they could drag it out that far given where we are it in the show now.
EASY SOLUTIONS:
Kill GREY WORM, his character is boring and the scenes of he and Missandei mewling over each other are a waste of plot time and tedious to watch.
Park SAM and GILLY in Old Town, Gilly does nothing to advance the story and Sam is not going to achieve Maester status in the space of 2 more seasons.
Kill BRIENNE, are we going to have another season of her looking for a candle in a window?, either give her a purpose or write her out, and killing Stannis does not count. How she was able to avoid Bolton soldiers to conveniently find a King by a tree was absurd.
Make Sansa a silent sister.
The end of season 4 and the introduction of “Dark Sansa” held a lot of promise but the writers squandered the potential and reverted her to “victim” status. It’s time for the writers to decide if she is going to be moping around and taking up screen time for another 2 seasons or is she actually going to do something.
Have King Tommen grow a pair of balls.
He finally has someone who cares for him and he happily lets her rot in the dark cells.
Either Kill him off or write his role better.
Parking characters does work, Bran for example, his role was one long uninspiring journey and with a season’s break I am looking forward to seeing what he has become.
Er, they really can’t make books 6 or 7 into any amount of episodes at all, simply because of the fact that books six and seven don’t really exist, as of yet.
phantomstrife,
I think they always wanted to do 70 houres but HBO wanted 80.
So they agreed in the middle 73-75. It’s basic negotiation.
Well, if she’s just getting into the ships in 6.10 she’s still technically in Meereen, no?
Mihnea,
The mass busting of hubris would be quite something to behold if the books’ ending is short and sweet to the effect of “…and everyone died, the end”.
Yep, pretty much this is correct.
Although, as one poster said above, HBO would have been perfectly happy with 5 years of the show turning into TWD on Ice…
I think this is actually quite possible.
For those fearing D&D will rush the ending, they shouldn’t worry. They won’t tarnish their legacy, they know how important sticking the landing is and have mentioned it on several occasions. In fact, this decision probably factors into that. The work for them will be the same (still two years), but with larger battles and scenes looming at the end, doing justice to these scenes will require an enormous effort.
This is interesting information regarding the stories of some characters. If it is true that Sansa is at the head of the Northern armies, her story is the beginning of the end game of the Starks (their return to power, with a reminder that noble deeds and love do, in fact, foster support as in Ned’s vs Tywin’s legacy). So I can see this storyline coming to an end in the stated time. Similarly the King’s Landing story seems to be heading to a climax with the Sparrows, Tyrells and Lannisters (possibly with Cersei burning it all down). I fear for Arya though (I don’t think she will or should have a happy ending), since it fits that whenever she leaves the Faceless Men, she won’t be long for this world (the FM are way to efficient for that and Jaqen did warn her) and the first book’s hint might come true pretty quick when Winter hits. The only storyline that could be problematic is Daenerys (if set reports are true). Yet again, Martin has always tried to (partly in some cases) subvert fantasy tropes. I doubt the story is going to be her arriving and simply saving the day. She might actually arrive on a completely ravaged Westeros.
Well then!! I hope it´s 8 and 8 ep if they are going to split and shorten the end…7 and 6 feels a little too short…I will watch the end of the show,wait at least TWO more years for the damned WOW to get finally published and that is that…There´s MY ending for I am certain a 100! PERCENT! there will be. not. one. more. book. after that,let alone two more 🙁 🙁 🙁 Ps. and hope I never run into this kind of never ending tales again!
George,
I believe they confirmed that the scene in the trailer where horses are charging in the sand is from the finale. But yeah, it doesn’t mean that Dany will linger in Mereen after that.
And really we don’t even need a scene of Dany boarding ships or anything. All we need is a conclusion or win against the Yunkai/SOH and a line of her saying that it’s time to head to Westeros. Then we can being season 7 with her about to land (or land) in Westeros.
El-Bobbie,
Haha, I can see the show doing that and in the books it’ll be Daenerys hanging around on a boat, complaining about certain monkeys and studying the patterns on turtle shells for four chapters.
Why couldn’t they do:
– an extended 7th season with 13 episodes,
– with a 1,5-year break,
– so S7 would premiere in autumn 2017 instead of spring 2017?
The whole “Winter is Coming” thing would suit autumn better than spring anyway.
Iain Glen talks about season 7 actually, which kind of also reveals what will happen to Jorah this season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSg_BjXx5O4
jentario,
Well said. And you just may be right about them calling the final season- Season 7, parts I and II.
This is complete and utter crap. Utter Crap.
Winds of Winter promises to be just as large as Storm of Swords, and A Dream of Spring just as long as them aswell. Meaning We should have 10 seasons considering Storm was 20 episodes long for some characters. They unfortunately are cutting the main storyline, Aegon and the second dance of the dragons, to hurry and finish the show in 23 episodes rather than 50.
I was very very angry, hearing D and D talk about future projects they want to do when they were barely 3 seasons into the show, and here they are cutting GOT down to the bare minimum just to end the show so they can work on those other projects. Rather than give GOT its just do and give it 10 seasons like the CEO of HBO and GRRM want them to do.
I think they say GOT is a year long job and takes time away from them spending it with their family…..well, they should give it up to another showrunner like Bryan Cogman.
Its about respect and integrity. They can end the show ASAP to work on other projects making themselves look good, or they can see they are tired and want to move on, and give the show to another person taking a slight hit in their careers since the show wont be entirely theirs.
Reading through the comments, I feel like we can sometimes be quite an ungrateful fandom. In ideal world, I would also prefer a regular network tv schedule with 22-23 episodes per season but that’s just not possible. Following (lurking) this website, I’ve seen enough ‘behind the scenes ‘and making of’ videos that confirm just how difficult it is to get us our 10 episodes per season. Nearing the end of the story, I only expect more battles that will require a whole lot more special effects. That stuff takes time – they needed weeks to film the Hardhome sequence, months to film this season’s big battle, can you imagine how much time, money and resources will go into filming what we all expect to be the resolution of the story? I’d rather have quality than quantity and I selfishly want this show to go out with a bang not a whimper.
Besides, HBO is in the business of making money not satisfying a relatively small group of diehard fans. I sincerely doubt they would allow the show to take a two-year break to give them time to film those 13 episodes. Regular viewers won’t wait that long, they’ll move on.
I do not always agree with D&D but I fully understand and support their decision. They’ve given us an amazing and high quality adaptation of the books. I want them to finish it on their own terms.
Btw. hi everyone! I’m a longtime lurker, occasional participant from non-English speaking parts of Europe (that should cover it)
those two must be Children of cousins. Lazy. get more people to work the process. We want 20 seasons 12 episodes. people want Game of Thrones to be part of their Daily lives.
I bet in a few years there will be a boring prequel. yes.
If those two have gotten tired. get OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED THAT WANTS THE SHOW TO GO FORWARD!
El-Bobbie,
That would imply a time gap of a few months between the end of S6 and beginning of S7. Which would have to work for all the other characters too. Its possible I guess.
Rei,
Ah, now I see why some people in the earlier comments were saying that filming for next season might be delayed!
Um…. hello! Book 6 and 7 aren’t even written!!! Maybe 50-75% of book 6, at the most, which S6 is covering. Makes sense…………………….. You want 40 episodes for material that’s not even published? LMFAOROFLCOPTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOOOOOOOOOOL. So you want the show to go on for 14 more seasons and blame the showrunners for being lazy? Do you really not think the actors and crew are also tired at this point? And LOOOOOL by S20 Arya will be nearing 40. Use your brain please!
This!!! I’m really disappointed that they might be abbreviating, but as many have already said we simply don’t know how far S6 will progress some of the sub-plots. But… What about Sam? What about the Irion Islands? Dorne (Ok scratch Dorne). The only way I can see this working at all without feeling rushed is if S6 has progressed enough for the Wall to fall/KL to burn as the end of season climax. Great ice/fire contrast.
That allows Dany to arrive next season to a burnt out, snowy KL (although I’m guessing that vision in THOTU is purely metaphorical), wrap up all the subplots and have the final endgame (although please Gods please just NOT one huge battle against the WW…. The Long Night is supposed to last years. Clues in the name- It’s meant to be kinda long.
Kyrion,
I suppose we will not agree on this, since we want different things from the show, but I assume you agree that SoS, whilst being smaller in length, had a lot more story/narrative than ADwD? Whilst WoW and ADoS (if it ever gets published) might approach the brilliance of SoS again, they also feature a lot of extended world narratives that have been left out of the show. Assuming these extended narratives take up a substantial amount of chapters in WoW, the core story (which the show focuses on) might be closer to the end. For example, the cutting of Aegon will mean that a substantial amount of chapters of WoW won’t be committed to screen in any way. How do you know that WoW and, especially ADoS, have a lot of narrative left that is part of the core story (which I assume feature the beats of the plot that Martin told to D&D)? All these side plots haven’t been written yet, and Martin has often commented these side plots come and go as he writes. All D&D have are the main plots, the fates of characters and the final conclusions to the storylines.
ghost of winterfell,
I think other characters could have a few months time gap too.
Apollo:although please Gods please just NOT one huge battle against the WW…. The Long Night is supposed to last years. Clues in the name- It’s meant to be kinda long.
genuine question – do you think it will be another Long Night? I always thought it could be more of a ‘learn from our mistakes’ thing and will be dealt with much faster… Long Night to me evokes end-of-the-world scenario that takes ages, destroys much of the continent and kills off majority of the characters we’ve been following… That doesn’t sound like the promised bittersweet ending, that’s just dark.
jentario,
You have just upped my anticipation for the future of the show to unprecedented levels. Thank you!
Hey, I love the first three books and I actually think that large chunks of Feast and Dance are actually quite good, but…In what universe is the story of that Blackfyre Pretender the “main storyline” of ASOIAF? LOL
Kyrion,
Dany, Jon, Arya, Bran..etc
These are the main storylines. Characters we know from book 1.
Not a badly written story that starts in Book 5.
Well I’m not saying it needs to span years on screen of course but it just can’t be wrapped up in one or two episodes. Remember that Melisandre has herself said this it would last for years, and if everything she ever says is to believed (which many here ascribe to- not me I hasten to add), then it needs to span a significant period of time at least.
And this show IS dark…. That’s the whole point. A bittersweet ending likely means the WW are defeated but that all/ most of the characters will be dead by the end. Vhalar Morghulis (now there’s a piece of foreshadowing that’s used in almost every episode).
I understand that the production values/costs of the show have gone through the roof but these guys went into this with their eyes open. They wanted to do this show. Did they seriously think they’d be able wrap it up without stellar production and the costs/ time that consumes?
I get that it’s a complicated beast. So throw the money at it, film in Iceland or Canada if you want to shoot winter scenes earlier. News flash- Northern Ireland does not get much snow in winter. . I don’t think HBO will put up much resistance (in fact now that I think about it, maybe this is all just a negotiating ploy to increase the budget to the necessary proportions).
Apollo,
I don’t think the war with the WW will last even 6 months.
Rei,
Lol Ian revealed a bit too much there. Everyone is heading to Westeros/Iron Throne and they’ll film later because it needs to be colder. Lol. Gee I wonder what that could mean.
Mihnea,
2 or 3 big battles is my guess and then 1-2 episodes to finish the series.
1. I think this is precisely the point D&D are making? Based on the story outlines for Winter and Dream of Spring that George presented to them in 2013, they’ve known how they wanted to end the show for quite a while, and they are conscious of the actual efforts and resources it’s going to take to bring that vision to the screen in a manner that brings justice to the material and the overall quality of the show; so less episodes means more resources per episode, more time for CGI effects (and make no mistake, the quantity of CGI that will be needed for the final season will be unprecedented in TV history), more time to finalize the scripts, to rehearse the actors, etc. etc.
Plus, they’ve said 70-80 episodes for years now, so it’s not like they said anything new?
2. I’m sure that HBO understands that at least in part, this declaration of D&D also means “We’re gonna need more money for the final seasons, HBO” LOL
El-Bobbie,
It could work for Jon/ Sansa but not for Arya.
Apollo,
Why are you assuming that the war with the WWs will last only a couple of episodes? If the Wall does fall this season, that means there will be 2 seasons of WWs in Westeros. Even if this happens next season instead of the S6 finale, S8 will more or less concentrate on defeating the WWs, which is at least 6 episodes and would span months. Anything more than that would become boring to watch.
Not going to read all the comments, it’s probably been said a few times or alot.
I think it’s good to have fewer episodes that shows better battles near the end, but I think most people now are afraid that it will be rushed. We’ll have to wait and see how season 6 will turn out before talking about that.
There seems to be alot White Walker action this season so maybe the wall will indeed come down at the end of season 6, maybe even earlier if they will show up at certain spots. Having in mind that there will be only 13 episodes after this season, I can’t see how the White Walkers will advance far to the south if the wall will fall at the end of S6.
Probably already said but, unless season 6 suprises us with Dany’s progress in getting to Westeros, I don’t see her really getting there. It’s pretty obvious Drogon will be with her, but maybe the other dragons can still show up in the north.
That makes me think of something. I’m not sure how or what it was but it was about Martin putting in dragons because someone said or wanted that. If that’s the case, maybe he already had the end in mind before putting dragons in the story. That could mean that the dragons aren’t even supposed to go north at all.
Long night only comes if the “Others” win the “Battle for the dawn”.
If they are defeated in the initial attack aka “Battle for the dawn” there is no “Long night”
First Post! :ducks: All of you people are marvelous. Long time lurker. Finally jumping in, hope I’ve signed up in the right way for the site, if not perhaps someone could help me.
You know, they tried this Season split trick here in the UK with “Doctor Who”, a show we British can be fond of and it never really worked for the viewer. They also played around slightly with the season lengths, cutting some almost in half, over years, as proposed here, and it never really helped the show or storytelling. People still loved the show, yet the seasons somehow lost momentum. That’s not to say it’ll happen on this monstrous behemoth of a show, but I have experienced this kind of thing before. It’s not for me.
Waiting just 3 weeks longer this year for S6 has been purgatory, right? Can you imagine waiting longer for less? If I think of S5, well, until Hardhome things were really great TV but, slow going for me; you could end up with a 7 episode S7 of a story simply moving pieces on the board.
Personally, having invested 50 hours so far (soon to be 60) in a story, just to have a rushed ending would seem a mighty let down. That 2 two year wait for just 13 episodes would be agonising. It certainly was for us Who fans when they pulled that trick on us. Longer waits, half the material? “Gee, thanks!”.
I wonder about pre-planning on Thrones. Surely they’d have known for years that this massive ending was coming down the tracks. So you start pre-production, design, CGI and the like very early on, no?
Having planned it, I think it plausible they’ve found that it’s very expensive in cash and time to finish.
Which leaves me to wonder if this is all just a D&D ruse for a higher budget and longer timeframe from HBO, in return for a bigger, better looking, full length ending.
I have no trouble waiting a while longer after S6 for more Thrones, but please give me another full 20 hours 2 x 10ep and properly reward my previous 60 hour investment. Tell the story. I can’t see myself getting bored of it.
In return, I promise I’ll invest my time and money. 😉
Please don’t kill me, first post and all. I know, much conjecture and wondering, but you never know!
this is BS, i would be pissed… if D&D received outlines in 2013, I’m sure GRRM can help them flesh it out with more important details when he is done with WoW.
I was actually expecting/hoping HBO would just throw so much money at the feet of D&D and the actors that they would add a 9th season, and maybe do a Roberts Rebellion prequel season with a different crew before the final season, to give the current crew enough time to do the final season justice.
This isn’t like most serial dramas that reset almost every season. It’s also not like most shows as its cast and subplots and cost are about two times what we typically see. This show has set up quite a few things in the first season that has yet to come into fruition. The quicker we get to that the better. Trimming the fat and getting to the core of the series is even more important in latter seasons. The problem is I’m not sure they’re good enough writers to pull that off.
Kyrion,
A lot of TWOW will be concerned with the downfall of Stannis and the machinations of getting Sansa to the North, though. The show has already dealt with it.
Really, barring Aegon – and including Aegon, actually, if Cersei destroys him – we should be at around the end of TWOW at the end of this season. Stannis fallen, Jon resurrected, Dany and Arya leaving for Westeros, Sansa in the North and so on.
Maybe GRRM has only given the story outlines so they no longer have the detail the books to fill out the episode. I hope it does not just jump from event to event as the build up is just as important. Foreplay is always important!
I wonder, now that we have a number that at least D&D expect the show to end in, if we can speculate how this thing will end. Up til now there have been so many paths to go down that’s it’s nearly impossible to for sure how this will turn. But only so much can happen in 13 episodes (yes, still a lot, but not 20 episodes worth).
To me, the biggest thing this seems to confirm is that the WW are going to be purely evil, and we’ll get a big Jon+Dany+Dragons vs WW. I was holding out hope that the WW would have some big secret (they’ve seen Dany ruin Westeros and plan to stop her) so Jon unites with them (or something). Can so much still happen in 13 episodes without feeling rushed? We’ve been built up for 50 episodes that WW are evil so far.
Redxgod,
Or maybe GRRM has just written a lot of filler? I mean how much did the plot really move in AFFC/ADWD? Not very much. The details and the build-up is great, but some of the details and build-up are for plots that go nowhere. I’d rather we begin to concentrate on the central characters who will have importance at the end.
Actually, I think George’s original idea was that the Targaryens would be able to magically manipulate fire, or have fire magic, or something to that effect; this was before someone convinced him that Dragons would be a cooler and better idea…
season 1 and 2 may have fit books 1 and 2 fine, but since then… it has been impossible to for an entire ASoIaF novel to be crammed into a 10 hour season.
the 3rd book took basically 20 hours
books 4 and 5 where righting crammed together but,
season 6 is still working on material from seasons 3, 4, and 5!!!
how the hell do they expect to fit 2 more books as detailed as book 3 into LESS time??
imo they would need about 26 hours to finish by season eight, or do an abbreviated season 9!
Twenty Good Chickens,
Good first post, but then as a fellow Brit I would say that 🙂
This is probably the result of me reading and watching too much theories and conspiracies, but I’ve come across some theories that suggest that the main conflict between humans and WV won’t be solved with a huge battle but rather peacefully. The reasoning behind the idea is that GRRM is a pacifist, hates war and also likes to play with our expectations. Everything points to a big battle, good vs. evil style and we are probably too hungry for a big showdown for it all to end in some kind of peace treaty… but who knows? It would explain the short final season/s.
El-Bobbie,
I disagree that the plot did not move. As the plot was really showing how these young people develop into their leadership roles that will define them going forward.
DRLOW,
The dragons will be important. George said Dany and her arc were nearly fully realized in 1991. It was also in 1991 when he decided to add Dragons. And before dragons, he was going to give Targaryens power to manipulate fire. So Targs/Dragons will definitely been important because they’ve always been part of the story. Whether in the form of Targaryens with magical powers or in the form of dragons.
I honestly can’t imagine how they can finish this story in just 13 more episodes… Sure, the story advances more into The Winds of Winter territory, but not that much. From what we’ve seen in the trailers, in the shooting news and so on it didn’t seem they were making huge progress in terms of the story…. I mean, Franken Gregor, a battle in the North, maybe Arya leaving Braavos, but in many stories we were rehashing stories already written, Jaime and Brienne in the Riverlands, the Moot, the story in Meereen looks like what we had in ADWD but with Tyrion in charge …. Have they been misleading us??? Is it possible that the Boltons are exterminated pretty quickly by the midway season, that Dany arrives in Westeros by episode 9??? I guess it’s possible. Either this, or they’re cutting huge chunks of what GRRM had planned for the last 2 books.
Redxgod,
The plot halted to a stop.
He went from developing Jaime’s character in 3-4 chapters, to doing even less development to Tyrion in 12 chapters.
The plot did move, but much, much slower then he used to write.
That’s why I think people overestimate just how big WOW is.
Those two last books needed a good editor. I agree that there was character development, but it took to many chapters.
We didn’t need 13 chapters of Tyrion doing mostly nothing. We didn’t need 13 chapters of Dany waiting, we didn’t need 13 chapters of Jon counting food and waiting for Tormund.
He could have done these much better, and he used to, that’s why I first fell in love with his books. But sadly he seems to have lost that ability, most likely because he cut the 5-year timeskip and the world and characters became just to much.
Er, again, books 6 and 7 do not exist, so it’s difficult to include “details” from books that George’s editor hasn’t even seen yet…
Season 6 will include details from Books 4 and 5 (and 1, TOJ) because those books are available, and D&D will weave material from the Winds of Winter outline along with it.
Redxgod,
Also while the plot moved a bit and characters evolved, much slower though.
The story didn’t. This is mostly because he cut the 2 battles from the last book and that AFFC doesn’t really have a end.
This makes these 2 books feel just a set-up for the next.
Vlad,
Or people are vastly overestimating how much true story is left.
True. We are just speculating but D&D know how the story ends and hopefully all the main events that will get them there. If they say 13 episodes is enough, I tend to believe them. I doubt they would cut half the storylines just for the sake of it.
Sounds these two idiots think they are more important than the story itself. They need to tell the story the right way. Not the quick way. They both remind me of whiners, who if they don’t get there way come up with this shit. If it takes nine seasons to do it right so be it. I’m sure George R. is regretting picking these two big time by now. They are a pain in everybodys ass. With there WE HATE SPOILERS Bullshit.
Nooo!! Why not take a page from the Walking Dead, and air part one of season 7 in March and part two in August? Fans, especially spoiled little a-wipes like myself, will revolt if we get only six episodes for seasons 7 and 8.
I think this season the people we expect to die in the North, will actually win all their battles and survive.
Ramsey – Will survive.
Roose – Will definitely survive.
*All the Starks in the North, including Davos and Mel will die, because I can’t see Wildling settlements being accepted by ordinary Northern men, until they’ve seen the White Walkers (which will be too late by then).
I think King’s Landing is going to be burnt to the ground by the Tyrrells, as soon as Jamie and his uncle Kevin, leave for the Riverlands. And I suspect Olenna and Walder have been planning a victory party for the Lannisters.
I feel this season will be about the Tyrells, showing their true colours and how much power and vanity means to them, thus making Maegarey, THE QUEEN without a king and the Boltons consolidating their powers as the Kings in the North.
The Man Who Swings The Sword,
You would know about idiots. And whiners.
…that said. People, that’s easy.
Season 7:
– the Tyrells and the Martells fight against Cersei. Jaime has his little romance with Brienne. Then, as news of Dany’s arrival reaches King’s Landing, he returns to the capital with the Hound to mercykill Cersei (and UnGregor);
– Euron attacks Oldtown, captures Sam. Meanwhile, Yara joins Dany. Then, Dany fights against Euron and his brainwashed dragon, meets Sam;
– Arya meets Nymeria, destroys the Freys;
– Sansa learns about Littlefinger’s treachery, kills Littlefinger;
– the White Walkers invade further South; season ends with a desperate defense of Winterfell.
…or thereabouts. But you see how much fewer plots that is than the regular number. Once people start joining up with each other, the end will come crashing.
I’m worried that by the end of S7 Dany is still in Essos, because of that speculation about Yara seeking for her in Volatins… 13 episodes left and Dany still in Essos? That would leave her only like 10 episodes to sail for Westeros and do everything she’s supposed to be doing there.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
wrong
George,
Martin could provide enough printed or outlined material from book 6 at this point, that “details” do in fact exist. Also, I think it has been a few years since the three of them have actually sat down together and had a thought out discussion about story, They could also bring their outline to Martin and hash it out a bit.
King in Bulawayo,
The Boltons’ victory over the Starks will be so short lived, it’ll be in line with these “bittersweet” endings GOT likes, when the White Walkers start marching towards winterfell. Because as long as there is a “Stark” in Winterfell the Wall won’t fall.
And without tonnes of Wildfire, and the knowledge to forge Valyrian Steel in mass production and ofcourse at least 3 dragons trained dragons… There really isn’t much of a story left in Westeros.
13 episodes + the 10 episodes of this season, so 23
My thirteen year-old: Did you hear the news?
Me: What news?
Her: This is the last season of GoT where they’re doing 10 episodes. They’re going to do 7 next season and then ….
Me: Yes, I have heard but nothing is certain yet. Even Benioff and Weiss don’t know yet…
Her: *Don’t* know yet? That’s not correct grammar.
Me: They don’t. Benioff and Weiss don’t. It’s plural. Plural is don’t.
Her: Oh. I thought it was just one guy: Benny Offenweiss.
Me: Like Oppenheimer?
I really hope that the series’ ending wont turn out like Lost where the showrunners totally lost (how ironical) the spirit of the show after the second season.
But then again, its impossible to satisfy all fans and there will be a lot of people who wont like the ending of Game of Thrones.
George,
60 hours, six years (20+ if you count the books) and six seasons for her to travel to Dragonstone by ship? Ride that freaking Dragon or may the Others take you!!!
jppoirier24,
She’s supposed to still be in Meereen by Episode 10 of this season. If she’s aslso supposed to meet Yara in Essos, as some rumors have been reported, she’d not sail for Westeros this season, leaving only 13 episodes for a conclusion of her arc in Essos + Westeros invasion + fight against the WW.
Kargaryen,
I think that’s more then enough.
kat_sk,
I do expect some sort of peace treaty (with Jon to play a key role in that, as he’s being both ice and fire), just like it probably happened 8000 years ago. But right now the WWs have no reason to accept a peace, especially once they breach the Wall. They need to suffer a major blow and be shown that they could be defeated, or at least a victory would cost them way too much.
Besides, it would be a wasted opportunity not to have some gigantic battle(s) for the ages.
None of what you have just outlined is, at all, likely to happen.
kat_sk,
Nothing points to an epic good vs. evil showdown here: if nothing else, then everything points to an absence of either “good” or “evil” in this world. Indeed, the only way this seems to be important is that those most concerned with being “good” do the most harm: just as in reality!
You’re the whiner, mate. Some histrionic people here.
Living in the UK, I’m used to shorter seasons, 6-8 episode kind of things. I don’t understand why many Americans like everything to come in XL, 20 episode seasons. You get nothing but bloat and thumb twiddling and stretched seams (memories of Battlestar…) Considering how massive this show is, to see people calling the production lazy is mindblowing. I think the GoT fandom is great, but probably the most spoiled.
George,
I would not write “none”: but I would write “little.”
For a long time we were told that we would have 7 seasons. Now we’ll have 8. We should be happy to have more episodes, even if the last season is shorter.
Conan Troutman,
The other issue is: why have the Walkers “resumed” hostilities? (Ok, after several thousand years, it is not really resuming, but….). We need to know the “why” of the Walkers.
But I think that you are right about Jon. Moreover, where he is concerned, I bet that learning the truth about his mother and what it cost Ned to raise Jon as almost a trueborn son is going to be huge for what Jon devides to do. I expect that parallels in how Daeny has survived will affect her decision similarly.
Ginevra,
Well, lets hope that Offenweiss’s production goes out with an equally big bang. I am sure that the fallout in some quarters will be just as toxic.
King in Bulawayo,
Where did you get these notions? Put them back!
Mihnea,
But are we?? No, I don’t think we are… for the story to wrap up so fast it would need to end in a very predictable way, for things to flow pretty smoothly. Anyway, it’s pointless discussing this now, because we have no idea how fast will Season 6 move… we should wait until at least the middle of the season. This story made me a lot more curious about this season than before 🙂 …
I’m sorry but I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve had for years that they’re rushing to end this show. And this has nothing to do with the books, but with Benioff and Weiss. They’re huge, this show has made them famous, they can pick whatever project they want going forward … they can produce huge block busters that could bring them a lot more money than this series. Conscious or not this might influence them… But don’t let my fears bother you :). We have to wait and see.
Yaga,
You don’t know me from shit Bit**. I’m entitled to my opinion just like you weanie BOY.
I think this year shooting starts later…they need winter to film now.
I’d do like Vikings did this year. A full season of 14 episodes (60-70 minutes long, not the 50-55 we’re getting now)…the first 7 episodes on September 2017, and the other 7, April -May 2018.
It’s fairly obvious that the writers don’t want to do eight ten-episode seasons, and that HBO was pushing for as many as possible (this also led to what was in my opinion a rather weird haggling in the fandom about the difference between eight seasons and a seventh season that was split in two; the difference between those is only contractual, and from what I understand of GOT’s production schedule it wouldn’t have been possible to do a split season while keeping their airing schedule). Two seasons with lower episode counts would be a compromise, though I expect HBO will be trying to bump the final count more into the range of 15-16.
In terms of story pacing and how they’d cope with a lower episode count, some are in different places than others.
Virtually none of the villains in the series fit that description, and certainly only one of the major ones does, that being
The main villains of this series are pretty much all selfish assholes.
crimethink,
2 weeks apart? no I doubt that. I think the obvious answer is to do 7 episodes for season 7. it would air in April 2017. Then 6 episodes for season 8 that would air in April. I think the whole point for the directors is have the new season air every april.
King in Bulawayo,
Nah Cersei is going to burn KL down. If she can’t have it, no one will.
Yep, everyone gets their act in gear to gang up on the Night’s King and the Dragons and tells them to get the hell out of our galaxy!
You know what? I’m buying most of this as quite plausible. You need to add what Jon 2.0 will be up to…and if Danny is in the ships bound to Westeros in 6.10, the Yara-Danny meeting may happen sooner than season 7, given the current Yara spoilers.
It’s amazing how ungrateful some people are. D&D have been working on the series since 2006. They’ve already spent over 10 years of their lives working on it! And, boy do they work. They are incredibly involved with every aspect of the series, and they don’t just leave a lot of things to others (albeit with help from other producers).
Put it this way: if George worked as hard as D&D, the series would’ve been completed long ago.
Ahaha, sorry, English is not my first language, so I tend to make such mistakes. 😀
Yeah, I’ve never really believed that Martin can end this series in just 2 more books without it feeling rushed: too many unresolved plots , too many scattered characters (too many secondary characters!!)
But if the series ends after 23 more episodes that’s really 2 more seasons and not 3.
And we know that Danny will spend a lot of time with the dothraki this season, and with Jon the battle of bastards will take place by the end of the season, also there will be material from AFFC/ADWD like the Greyjoys. I don’t expect the WW invasion or Danny finally arriving at Westeros before at least the end of the season, and that’s being optimistic.
So everything big will be happening in the next 13 episodes. By now I’ve accepted that the WW threat will be solved in one big battle like tLoTR (6 seasons for the war of the 5 kings and just one battle for the WW??), but I can’t help feel it will feel rushed. Probably the problem is that Martin is a lot less clear about the contents of book 7 than everyone thinks, he gave them the general plot, but most of the details he hasn’t figured out yet.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
True 🙂
Yes, i do plan to read the books so thats a good plan 🙂
tkk,
George did say the end would be bittersweet..:( We are ALL going to hate the ending.
Not only did I say they would do this… and said it THREE YEARS AGO, but I’ve also made the “Scouring of the Shire” comparison a dozen times over the years as an example.
If you don’t know what the “Scouring of the Shire” is, it’s the most important part of Lord of the Rings. You don’t remember it? Well, that’s because you didn’t read the books. If you only saw the movie, you didn’t see the Scouring (except in a vision for a second). And yet, those are great movies… even though they jabbed a hot knife through the heart of the story in order to tell a more streamlined version of the majority of what Tolkien wrote.
Peter Jackson knew that having your heroes win and then to come home only to find they’d lost what they’d been fighting for would not work for the majority of viewers, because the general audience is a bunch of whiny pricks (WAH! THERE ARE 20 ENDINGS TO THIS MOVIE WAH!).
I think D&D are doing a Scouring the Shire with A Song of Ice and Fire… in that they will touch on many of the main points of the story but skip the heart of it. TV only absorbers of the story will be satisfied but reading the books will not only give you a deeper understanding of the world, but the ACTUAL POINT of the story.
Flayed Potatoes,
OMG, so funny and so true. I’ve started losing interest in TWD as it seemed this season they were really drawing it out. I know D&D have culled a lot of the little side stories that I liked in the books, but I don’t mind at all and if it’s a case of quality versus quantity I’ll take the quality and HATE the shortened season, but appreciate the overall episodes I’m sure.
In the U.S., six hours isn’t a series: it’s a mini-series. Pride & Prejudice is about this length, and I consider it a really long movie. I don’t understand why 10 hours takes one year to make and 13 hours takes two years to make. If it is completely impossible to make more than 10 hours in one year, then take 1.3 years (August 2017) to give us 13 hours or, better yet, give us just 10 hours in April 2017.
I think Dunk & Egg is a beautiful story. Plus, a talented storyteller could add some story to it. Would it be as brilliant as Game of Thrones? Probably not even close unless George contributed significantly and maybe not even then. But there could be good story to tell here with the right storyteller.
Ignoring the books entirely and ignoring the human element of how much work it takes to make these season…
13 episodes just doesn’t feel like enough space to satisfactorily wrap up all the plot lines. Obviously we don’t know where Season 6 ends yet, but I really doubt that all the storylines will be in a place where they are ready to go into the endgame. Even if S6 ends with the Wall coming down, the Starks in control of what’s left of the North, Littlefinger dead, the Freys dead, Kings Landing burning, Arya on a boat to Westeros, and Dany and co. headed towards Westeros; I still don’t think 13 episodes would be enough time. And I don’t think ALL of those things will be true by the end of S6.
Its not just about plot movement, I don’t really want to see 20 episodes of desperate battles against the WW ending with the final battle on Trident. Its that we’ve spent 5, maybe 6, seasons with all these characters mostly apart from each other, and I’d like to see them now get enough space to interact with each other and see how they deal with that. I don’t want those story beats to feel rushed.
I was originally hoping for 70 episodes total and was disappointed when there’s talk of an 8th season, because I didn’t want things stretched out. But seeing where it looks like things will stand at the end of S6, I don’t think 10 episodes, or 13 episodes would be enough. Maybe 16 would, if that’s the most that can be done for production reasons.
I’m with you hon. I know no matter what that it will be amazing. I’ll be sad to see it end, but “all good things much come to an end,” and so on. I’d rather go without it next year and have them push for a last, longer season but as someone else already pointed out it would really bungle HBO’s schedule. Quality over quantity if I can only have one.
That’s a good question.
One answer would be because the humans violated the peace treaty by settling north of the Wall. Then again, that happened a long time ago, so you’d expect them to react much faster. Maybe they were really low in numbers and needed all that time to rebuild their population. Especially if they used the Wildlings for baby supply. But still, 8000 years is quite the time, even for them.
So maybe it was something else? The Andal invasion could be somewhat closer, depending on when exactly it was. I believe there’s a possibility that the CotF may be behind that, maybe not all of them (perhaps the ones in the cave where Bran is are indeed friendly), but I guess some didn’t take kindly to that. Them allying with the WWs seems plausible in that case. And the other part of the CotF would be wise not to mention that part of the story.
Something closer to the current time could be the doom of Valyria and/or Aegon bringing dragons to Westeros. There was probably some sort of magic involved, which may have awoken the WWs. I don’t think any recent events have anything to do with it, as Craster seems to be offering his sons for decades now, which means they must have been around since even before Robert’s rebellion.
Another option is that the Wildlings somehow accidentally triggered something. Maybe they went too far north or activated some magical artifact or whatnot.
But generally, we know way too little about them (and the CotF, for that matter). That’s why Bran’s story this season is the one I’m most excited for, by a wide margin. I also expect Sam to uncover some backstory.
Stannis spent the half season 5 to wait at Castleblack, Jaime only traveled to Dorne, Arya spent the all season at Braavos. Just 13 episodes for Dany’s invasion, War for Dawn, Mad Queen Cersei, Euron are not enought for D&D’s way to tell a story.
I dont see why filming for season 7 needs to be delayed. There are many places in the world that have winter 24/7. Here in canada, we have some spots that are winter all year. Up in the north. And we are very nice and welcoming people. We would love for them to come up here!!!!!! hahaha
Sean C.,
As I said in a previous post TWD has certainly dragged and it’s losing me. If GOT had dragged like ADWD it would have lost me by now. I didn’t think I’d EVER finish that book…lol. I’m with you all the way.
Elizabeth,
God, I remember when I first read ADWD. I didn’t think I will ever finish it.
I read ASOS, witch is about as long as ADWD, in 1 week. I read ADWD in 2 months.
FWIW I’m in the ‘disappointed at first but on board with it now’ camp. D&D know the endgame, we don’t. They said 7, then probably 8 seasons but that would have been when they didn’t have it mapped out to the very end. Now they must be close to a beat by beat outline of the remaining story. If they think 13 hours or whatever is what they need to tell the story then okay. Plus, it’s so big now, and the production values are so high that it’s getting nigh on impossible to meet the schedule. They can’t make more than ten episodes in a year, they can barely hit the ten required as it is so two shorter, high quality seasons seems like the best solution. I’d rather that than wait two years to get anything more!
It is logical to assume that more time means better quality, and yet that is often not the case. JK Rowling was under enormous time constraints and pressure to finish the first four novels, but then she wrote OotP on her own time frame. She took at least twice as long to write the novel that many consider the worst of the series and which was originally published with more errors than the rest of the series.
The same might be said of George. The third book of the series seems to have taken him the least time to write, by far, and is rated the best, while the fourth and fifth books took the most time to write. And. Well. Yeah.
Conan Troutman,
Deesensfan,
There are also contracts. Actors and crew are doing other work, too. This would certainly conflict if they were to suddenly extend filming all the way to spring. They might have contracts that specify that they need to film in NI, so they can schedule other projects which are also filming scenes in Belfast or in the UK around GoT .
Damn, if this really happens, I could see season 6 ending with the White Walkers bringing down The Wall, and even with Cersei’s death. I just don’t see how she could survive with just 13 episodes left. Too much storylines, and with the War for the Dawn.
Deesensfan,
I read somewhere that they shot some of Season 6 in Canada, so you may get your wish! Then Antarctica for the final season.
The Children and last season’s Stannis felt rushed to me. But generally I think there’s room for pacing variation while remaining elegant. And as others have pointed out, not knowing the ending makes it silly to state that 13 episodes (23, really) isn’t enough. (For many it comes down to Dany. But it was never plausible, the way the story was shaking out, that there was a lot of story for Dany in Westeros. Her story is mostly Essos. Deal!) The biggest factor is that storylines are condensing. Think of how few storylines there were to start the series. Everybody was in the same place. Then they started spreading out, and other major characters began to sprout up. As they come back together, four storylines worth of people will coexist in one space. It’s seemed obvious to me that Jon’s death was a way to free him of the NW and get him away from the Wall so it can fall. That wipes out NW. Think about how there will no longer be a storyline at the Wall! How many episodes does that free up alone?
msd,
As far as I know. They filmed only Ghost’s scenes in Canada. That’s where the wolf is.
Fargo season 2 was filmed in Alberta , wasn’t it?
LoL! Can you imagine what Cersei would do to Flea Bottom with Oppenheimer’s device? She would be like, if I can’t create two-headed babies by incest, I’ll find another way.
Conan Troutman,
That’s a good point
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Was it? I had no idea!
msd,
Yeah they filmed Ghosts scenes in Canada
I hope we get some more!
I don’t think we need to worry about the writing side, it’s not like D&D have writer’s block. In fact this news indicates that they know much more clearly now exactly how it will play out. The making of it is the thing that is at breaking point, it’s what needs more time to get the best quality result.
Deesensfan,
Thanks, I didn’t know what they filmed there. I actually assumed it was just some gorgeous wide shots of snowy mountains or something. Intriguing that it was for Ghost with no actors about!
I make those mistakes, too. Reading Sister Kisser’s comments, I was imagining an xkcd comic with Sam teaching algebra to the Night’s Watch.
Sam: Let x be the number of dragonglass arrows we can make in a week. If x < 450 but we need at least 5000 arrows to kill all of the Others, what is the minimum number of weeks we need to pray for before we see The War of the White Walkers?
Stannis: If x is fewer than 450…
Sam: There is no mathematical symbol for "fewer than," dammit!
msd,
They always did that. Ghost is filmed alone and hen added in the scenes with CGI.
Conan Troutman,
I think the WW in the GOT’s version had always intended to invade Westeros but the opportunity just hadn’t presented itself.
An invasion of Westeros during the height of the Valyrian/Targaryen Empires would have resulted in a war that could only have ended with the WW’s extinction.
I have to admit that this news leaves me a little bit nervous. Although the final two books haven’t been published (obviously!), we do have some sense of the remaining storylines. And frankly, I have trouble seeing how D&D intend to cram all that in only 13 episodes.
A lot will depend on how much ground is covered in Season 6, but based on leaks and spoilers, I believe that it won’t progress much past the halfpoint of <emWinds of Winter. It’ll probably wrap up the Stark restoration plot, Dany will be finally through with the Slaver’s Bay, Arya with Braavos, etc. All those things are stuff that Martin originally intended to take place in A Dance with Dragons. For one reason or another, it was moved to WoW, but I sincerely doubt it will take him the whole book.
If I’m right in this, that would mean we’ll have only 13 episodes for the grand finale (1,5+ huge books-worth of material). Even if they manage to touch upon all the major character beats and plot points (I don’t doubt they will), such constricted time frame will hardly allow the story and characters to breathe. And frankly, I’d love to see the characters that have been scattered for 6 seasons now have a little more time to interact. Finally, that pesky OCD trait of mine that sometimes rears its ugly head will find it inelegant and assymetrical if Act I (the War of the Five Kings) takes 3-4 seasons, Act II around 2, and Act 3 barely more than 1.
Well, I’m a bit late to the party and didn’t read the comments. But here are my thoughts:
– Damnit!
– GRRM’s pace is so much slower than they expected and they were put in a difficult situation. Now D&D are just soooo done with this job.
– 10 episodes of super high quality CGI heavy television is tough to make in a year schedule.
– HBO adding resources to speed things up won’t work. 9 women can’t make a baby in 1 month (unless it’s a shadow baby. then, maybe).
– If they can wrap up the story in 13 more episodes, perhaps consider one more full season and then a feature length film to follow.
– I can’t wait for TWOW to come out!
– Was the picture of Jon Snow in Stark armor a purposeful leak to troll the GOT fandom? Millions of fans who came to the same conclusions couldn’t be wrong right?
– What will we all turn to after this series is done? I’ve been reading articles and comments from the same people since WinterPhil’s old site started. It was bound to end sometime. Is it going to feel like the end of some music festival where we’ve all been dancing together for ages and then all of a sudden everyone is gone and there is just an empty mud stomped swath of land with trash blowing around?
– I’m getting depressed…
Mihnea,
You mean Ghost isn’t real!? 😉 I meant intriguing in that I assume Canada involved a snowy location but Jon seems to be going south this season, not north. Unless it was just a studio in Canada, in which case ignore me.
I ma confident in D&D. If they say 13 episodes might be enough then it must be so.
Going by what we know so far and the outline of the structure of Asoiaf that George Martin wrote here’s my speculation on how it will play out:
Daenerys heads for Westeros in season 6 episode 10.
Season 7 (7 episodes) will be about her invasion.
Season 8 (6 episodes) will be about the NW invasion.
And I really really hope it is as I said because I am so interested in these two invasions that I don’t want them to collide and take place at the same time as it would take away from both of them and neither event would benefit from an overlap.
Kargaryen,
I agree. Short seasons are frustrating. Mathematically it would work out the same as a whole season and a movie showing the final battle/ conclusion.
It just feels stingy to drag out 13 episodes over 24 months or to wait an entire year for the aggregate total of 3 more hours.
However, D&D are working with actualities and as we all surmise, the cheap and easy to produce storylines are all being exhausted and the remaining all required much more post-production time to finish. I think they are hinting at their process for logistically producing the required product.
Finally and most disappointingly, this must be evidence that whatever complexities and sophistications dreamed up by fans probably won’t pan out. Clearly, D&D are at the end of a very long marathon and going to be very efficient in how they wrap up this show. This makes me fear for poor little Gendry still rowing away in that row boat.
msd,
I know
It’s pretty cool
Jared said
….Ultimately, I want David Benioff and Dan Weiss to do whatever believe is best for the show. I trust them completely and implicitly. They’ve been living and breathing this story for the past decade. They know it better than anyone. The vision they’ve put forward and the work they’ve created with the help of their immensely talented cast and crew has resulted in my favorite TV show ever. I’m with them until the end, whatever and whenever they believe that end needs to be. And God willing, I’ll love every moment of the journey to that end, as I have so far.
Well. That statement took the snark right out of my sails. All the white noise and chatter on this thread puffed me up with much to say, but at the end of the day….
I am just a popcorn muncher who loves an icy rum and coke with my good books, great movies and excellent TV. I am no expert in ANYTHING that it takes to make a show like GoT’s or any other on the tube or big screen.
So I will be grateful and enjoy what I get and feel totally fortunate that I happened to be alive and engaged during this time.
Excuse me, I have to go, the microwave just beeped and the ice is melting. NINE DAYS…HUZZAH.
Pentriloquist,
Exactly what we, as fans, have been hoping for is probably now not going to happen. Shortened seasons means that there will be no more world exploring. The sand box days are over. Gendry will row forever in that cursed boat.
Loge,
Or he landed in the Riverlands, and lives a quiet and happy life.
Jesus…
Let’s actually, you know, wait and see how the various plot lines play out this season and beyond before we lose our minds, declare this show to be the second coming of Lost, and crucify D&D for failing to carry George’s vision to completion. Despite what some of us think here, none of us really know how much more story there is to tell, nor the amount of time it will take to tell it. At least we’re getting an ending to this story here, which is more than I can say for the- let’s be honest now- rambling mess that is the books (as much as I love them).
Early this year we learned that GRRM is not our bitch. Now we learn that D&D are not our bitches either.
Without contradiction from published novels, GoT will be able to slide through to the bittersweet end with the elimination of some wars, such as:
-when the dragons show up, the war in Mereen will just evaporate. After Khaleesi and company leave, the combatants will anililate each other off camera.
-no war in KL because Cersei will burn it down. Jaime will say that he bore the epithet Oathbreaker to save half a million people, and now those people are gone but he is still reviled.
-after the ironborn fleet summons dragons, the dragons will incinerate that host as part of a training exercise.
So without the WWs killing the residents of Westeros, Westeros will be depopulated as it was eight millennia ago anyway. The CotF will take it back.
Without competition from the TV show, GRRM will feel no motivation to complete ASoIaF. No volumes six, seven or eight. Fans mourn.
I take it you don’t watch Sherlock? 😉
Deesensfan,
🙂 My sister is in Sarnia and I can so picture her sitting at Tim Horton’s with the Night’s King for a coffee.
Edit: I should add that they have rather mild temps in Sarnia as compared to the northern parts of your country! It’s just a picture that popped in my head when I read your comment. 🙂
I don’t care how many episodes I get as long as it’s not your usual hackneyed fantasy smut.
Started out hating GoT after the first few episodes what with the evil queen and the simple, noble underdogs. Wasn’t until they started subverting those tropes that I fell in love with it.
I’d hate to now see it come full circle with the conquering hero BS.
I’m not sure how I feel about this. As long as they don’t do what Lost did and make a disappointing ending I’ll probably be ok with it. I kinda feel like there’s too much ground to cover though. Two more full seasons would be amazing but I guess if they tell the story well it might be ok to cut down the episodes.
Touche. I’ll still watch, even though a split season would split the awesomeness, because a great show is a great show is a great show. Half as awesome is still sort of awesome.
Penny Douglas,
Same here… A man can hope…
I’d much rather have 13 jam-packed episodes split over two years that feel like feature film versions of Game of Thrones, than have them add filler just so people can have their extra episode count.
Let them do what needs to be done to make the end of this show great. The people saying other shows have done 20-24 episodes in the past, etc clearly have no concept of what is involved in making a show with the scale, precision, and quality of writing, directing, production design and SFX that GoT exhibits every year.
Those shows (including shows like 24, Alias, Battlestar Galactica, and Lost, all of which I dig) almost universally had filler episodes, cheap SFX, rushed writing and production schedules, mediocre and standard TV direction, and far less things to coordinate. Keep in mind, the long network shows specifically – almost always wrote the season AS THEY WENT ALONG. For example, 24 was only ever about 4-6 episodes ahead in terms of writing versus what was airing. Essentially, they wing the writing on a lot of those shows all the way to the end of the season. That can’t be done with something on the scale of Game of Thrones, where you need to service every character, where you have intricate plot tangles that have ripple effects out onto numerous other characters, etc. Those other shows certainly didn’t have any battles or intense logistical action sequences on the scale that Game of Thrones requires. To make a show with the quality of Game of Thrones takes an immense amount of effort, and that effort shows in every frame. Comparisons to Supernatural (which I’ve seen the first five seasons of and which has its own B-level charm especially with the occasionally clever meta episodes) are way off the mark – on a technical level, the quality and scale of filmmaking on display is not even close from one to the other.
So yeah, I’d much rather take this shortened two seasons, and get essentially 13 feature film quality episodes of Game of Thrones to finish off the show, than either filler or a rushed end product. Especially when you consider the way things have been built up, the show really needs an epic sendoff.
Yara, sure. Jon (and Bran, obviously), it’s impossible to tell, because that’s part of the endgame and Martin has not given us a convenient chapter or prophecy for that yet. ? Maaaybe Jon will make a sortie to Dragonstone for the obsidian? I picture him for the season mostly as a Luke to Sansa’s Leia – he commands a small troop and moves around as a guerrilla, she stays put in Winterfell and takes command and care of the civilians and the refugees.
Mr Fixit,
I think we have to forget about what the books are supposed to include (and not just because Martin will never finish them). Remember, A Dance With Dragons was meant to begin after the 5 year gap and would include Dany’s arrival to Westeros! The current ADWD is just the beginning of that story (plus half of the “bridge” material that was meant to be part of A Feast For Crows). The future Winds of Winter will probably have no similarity with what Martin had originally intended for the books (which was meant to be about the third and final conflict).
In any case, it’s clear that the paths of the show and the books are going to be very different, although the endgame will be the same. I don’t think we can say “this season will adapt part of book x” anymore.
In any case, we knew about this. They always talked about 70-80 episode, and this is it. I think many people really wanted to believe that HBO “forced” D+D to go for eight seasons (and that season 6 was going to “correct” season 5 by including the omitted material plus just the beginning of TWOW). Well, that’s clearly not the case.
Sullied by Knight,
HAhaha that’s awesome
I would love to have coffee with the night king. And ask him “what’s your problem dude?”
Yes definitely sarnia is much milder. Like where I am in Ottawa. It’s 15 deg celcius today yay spring! Going to be 20 degrees celcius this weekend
But up north in iqualit, it’s about -10 -20 degrees celcius in the spring 🙂 lol
I am aware of Martin’s original plans for ADwD. That is exactly why I find the idea of finishing the series this way somewhat curious. We’re talking 13 episodes to cover 1,5-2 enormous books! And they are bound to be much more “plot-forwarding” than AFfC/ADwD.
The only way I can see them accomplish that is by excising a lot of stuff that Martin planned, which I guess is not unreasonable. No fAegon, no Stannis (anymore), probably severely truncated Dornish and Ironborn contribution to the plot…
As for Aegon being the main storyline, it most definitely will be the main story line of the books. George has said in a so spoke martin that the second dance of the dragons will be the subject of a book, which most definitely will NOT be the Winds of Winter, unless he rushes it. It will most likely be A Dream of Spring.
Winds will ecompass Aegon’s path to the iron Throne so Dany can eventually fight him. Im sure Jon being the secret Targaryen will somehow be involved with the Dance rather than just dealing with the Others, likely forging alliances with Sansa as a marriage proposal probably to Aegon if the foreshadowing is right. Them cutting this is basically cutting the entire plotline of the Dance, which is probably the heart of What George wants to write about the Human heart in conflict, and Aegon vs Dany is definitely that seeing as they are family.
D&D skipping this isnt a side story they are skipping, this is the main plot. The Others I have no idea where they come in but skipping this is like skipping the War of the Five Kings~ utterly ridiculous.
So tired of people calling things filler that doesnt warrant it as no one will call War of the five kings filler. Just cause D&D cut the Second Dance of the Dragons doesnt make it filler. The scouring of the shire wasnt filler aswell.
I don’t think 13 episodes split for Season 7 A and B is so bad an idea. David and Dan (along with the rest of the production crew) put everything into making the show, you can always tell from interviews/commentaries etc. I commend how well they have been able to adapt a vast sprawling book with multiple storyline which so many people hav gotten into and a lot of non fantasy fans like myself have been hooked and interested in the show like no other before.
They will want to do what is the best for the show (and let’s be realistic – their sanity). They will have been working on the show for what 10 years if Season 7B aired in 2018. That’s a bloody long time to spend so much time on one project particularly one which requires so much attention and receives so much publicity both good and bad. It must be exhausting dealing with that for so long.
Also actors contracts. Apparently the shows 5 main actors receive 300k an episode for Seasons 5 and 6. For Season 7 (and 7B) they will probably be able to command a further pay rise. If their characters are still alive (I assume they will all make it to at least the start of Season 7 – Peter, Lena, Nicolaj, Emilia and ahem.. Kit) that could be over 2 million per episode if they all appeared in it. Pretty sure Sophie and Maisie will be getting a pretty hefty amount by this point as well. And once you add the dozens of other actors, the costing alone for actors before you consider all the staff, dealing with non disclosures to keep filming secrets, and even more CGI the whole thing adds up pretty quickly.
I have faith that those responsible for the show will do what they think is best for the final chapter of the story.
LOL,
Why not??? Works for Simpsons 🙂
Tyrin as an old man would be hilarious. ARY would stil be kicking ass..
Loads of new characters could be entirely new main event stars. They all die anyway, KEEP THIS WORLD ALIVE!
I’ve wondered this myself. They trolled the fandom with Benjen Stark at the end of last season when Jon died. Kit has been so vehement that his part in the show is over. And after D&D’s comments re spoilers yesterday….it would be a giant f* you to people who, in their view, try and spoil the show.
The LoTR part makes sense to me, but what is the actual point of the story that you think the TV show might miss?
Any money they spend on the show will flow back to them ten fold. Its not money and effects, so it must be actors, writers, and creator that will disappoint. If they disappoint at all. HBO wants as much as possible and I’m sure they’ve crunched the numbers and know they can maintain the quality and quantity if the people are up to it, and maybe they’re not. 🙁
It sounds to me like what we were expecting all along, until HBO got our hopes up for more. Basically 7 seasons, with the last one expanded somewhat and split into two. That way they don’t have to renegotiate contracts with the cast, whose contracts are up after season 7. While they’ll officially call it two seasons and air them that way, they’ll film them all at once over a longer period of time.
Bit the producers will likely get the full budget for two seasons out of this. That makes sense, since the ending episodes will likely be very VR/CGI heavy, with battling dragons and direwolves and white walkers. Basically, they get the budget for two seasons, while only having to actually make 1.3 seasons, and pay their actors for 1 season (plus probably a bonus of 50% for the extra episodes) and not have to renegotiate their contracts, which would likely result in massive pay hikes.
It also gives them extra time to work on the SFX/CGI for the first half of those episodes. The filming of the first “season” will be done earlier, so the post-production won’t have as many episodes to work on. Which is good because they’ll have a lot more work to do on each episode.
It’s a win/win for the producers. But not for the fans.
But any notion that they haven’t made these decisions yet is ludicrous. They have to be breaking down the season(s) and starting to write these episodes now. There’s no way they haven’t already at least broken down the episodes by now. They have to start filming in a few months at the most.
Jorah Mormon,
Hm, that’s somewhat mundane, but makes sense.
Flayed Potatoes,
GRRM is dreaming up fat right now in Winds of Winter. But yes, there will be fat to trim, they just don’t know it yet.
How does it feel George to see sombody looking after your child and watching them grow up. Then skipping past all the teenage bullshit. And getting right to the point where they can look after themselves. 😕 Well maybe if you had fired up dos and opened up wordstar more often your, child wouldn’t be calling sombody else dad right now. We could see the whole family album instead of a few pic’s on Snapchat. Speaking as sombody that has been waiting since 96. And is yet to see the story progress past secondary school or for you Americans highschool. Letalone college. All I can say is you better keep the child support payments up and on time.. all you might lose it alltogether or at least you’re publishers will.
Kyrion,
I highly doubt the second Dance is the main storyline considering it hasn’t been built up at all in the books. Aegon was only introduced in the last book, and there is zero animosity or history between him and Dany. The White Walkers have been present since the prologue of the first book and have been built up to be the main antagonist. I’ll be surprised if the White Walker storyline isn’t the more important plot.
All in all, it seems this season will have most of the climaxes to WoW. If that is true, I understand that there is not much story left to tell. After all, as most have mentioned, Stannis’ story is finished (which will take up a large part of WoW I am sure) and Aegon’s entire arc will be skipped in the show (I do assume he will survive most of book 6, else his sudden appearance would be even more pointless). Other storylines that seem to make up parts of WoW are the Sansa/Harry interactions (skipped in the show), Davos/Skagos (skipped in the show), Barristan POV (dead, one of the show’s decisions I don’t like that much), Victarion POV (Asha seems to take his role in the series) and the Dornish alliance with Aegon (largely cut most likely). Add in the fact that battles take up a significant amount of pages (lots of POVs), and more than half of the book seems to be of little relevance to the show. I do believe they can fit half a book within 10 episodes, especially if Martin keeps going into detailed descriptions of banquets and wildlife.
For those commenting that part of book 4/5 will be in season 6, that seem to be only partly true. For example the Kingsmoot will be there for sure (and the preceding regicide), but if Euron truly attacks Oldtown, we might be seeing a streamlined version of the Greyjoy arc and end up at the WoW climax of that narrative. Similarly, like in the books it seems that Brienne and Jaime will meet near Riverrun, but the image of the Freys in the trailer could allude to a certain climax to that story as well. I do see it as a positive that D&D always eyed 7 season and they seem to think they were right in their first assessment. I am a 100% sure that the ending won’t be the stereotypical battle of WW and Dragons, but something more akin with Martin’s themes.
Conan Troutman,
What awoke the WWs?
What about the red comet effecting some change to Planetos, some change to the energy which fuels the WWs? Mayhaps the red comet is not even a natural phenomena.
If the red comet spawned the WWs and a second moon released dragons to Planetos as the Dothraki believe, the dragon/WW war is a proxy war on Planetos.
If I’m not mistaken, they shot Ghost stuff here. That’s what we’ve got…snow + wolves. It’s a matter of time before Trump starts calling us Wildlings.
GeekFurious,
Honestly, I prefer Jackson’s take over Tolkein’s. Scouring of the Shire was completely unnecessary and dragged out something (Saruman’s death) that should have been done in the previous book. To me, Tolkein is little more than a thinking man’s James Cameron/George Lucas. He can build a world but can’t write dialogue.
To al those talking about shows with 20-24 episodes per season, let me fill you on some things. Firstly, those shows were mostly made for broadcast networks, meaning that the sole goal is to reach syndication, regardless of the effect on story. This means tons of filler. Secondly, most of those shows were shot on sound stages, not on location across 2-3 continents. Thirdly, because of commercial breaks, they were 10-15 minutes shorter than those on HBO. Listen, I loved Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine, but they could easily have been 1-2 seasons shorter and several episodes shorter (B5’s first season and DS9’s first two are almost pointless aside from a handful of episodes).
Kyrion,
Who said that eagon will not be in the show? We don’t know how it will be on screen. He can make an entrance in 7×01 and instead of introducing him in essos he will be introduced in westeros. Some people speculate that treastane is the show eagon.
About 13 episodes for the last season. I think that is enough. Look at the last season of breaking bad, it was 2 smaller seasons on 1. If you look at the past seasons. Season 1 contained ca 5 main storylines. Then we expended to 7 storylines in season 2. Season 3 and 4 had ca 10 storylines. That’s ca 50 minutes a season per storyline. Season 5 had 7 storylines. And with the death of stannis one storyline closes.
Season 6 will open with a lot of storylines Ca 8. We can assume that at the end of the season a lot will combine. Everything in the north will be solved. Probably lots of deaths. More storylines will be trimmed. Probably mereen storyline will be ended in season 6. Some things like lady stone heart can be introduced in season 6 and ended in 7.1
For season 7.1 I think this will have 4 main storylines. Yes a lot less. We will have the north storyline, most Stark’s together the white walkers approaching the neck at the end of 7.1 the north is done. We will have some problems in the south that will be resolved, this will not take much time, more like problems as tyrion in the eyrie kinda problems solved in 2 episodes. We will have the last part of essos, big battle mereen if mereen isn’t ended in season 6. Somewhere in part 1 dannereys will be in westeros. And storyline 4 will be eagon or some other problem. This will feel more like season 1 than the rest.
Season 7.2 will all be in the south. This will contain the last 2 storylines. 1 white walkers and 2 dance of dragons II.