The pre-season interview promotion continues for Game of Thrones Season 5. The latest, thanks to Italian site tvzap, is an exclusive interview with Aidan Gillen.
As book readers will no doubt know, we are heading into uncharted territory in the upcoming season with regard to what Littlefinger and Sansa will be up to all season; very little (if any) of their on-screen material will be adapted directly from the books.
Some choice quotes below the cut.
Do you hate the fact that the public associates you with Lord Baelish?
AG: “At one time I hated when people approached me calling me with the name of a character: not bear it, because obviously I’m an actor, not the character. In my career I’ve done a few very recognizable roles. One is definitely Game of Thrones, the other is Tommy Carcetti in The Wire, and in Ireland there’s also John Boy in Love/Hate. Over the years I realized that… if I am being credited with that particular role [Littlefinger], it means that I was good. The important thing is to be recognized again for a new character.”
You’re from Dublin, and season after season in Game of Thrones, your accent becomes more Irish. Is this a sign that you miss work at home?
AG: “You notice so much?! Yes I’m trying to work as much as possible in Ireland… These are the films in which I feel more at ease. ”
A few days ago the official trailer for the fifth season of Game of Thrones was released… Can you tell us something about the evolution of Lord Baelish?
AG: “This year I can reveal even less than before: at this point in the series, the authors are increasingly detaching from the books and are inventing many things… many things will happen in the fifth season that are not in the novels. Last year it woudn’t have made much difference if I had revealed something about my character, because so much of it it was already in the books… but now it’s all new. I can say that my character and Sansa Stark are setting out on a journey through the Vale to take control of House Arryn… For Lord Baelish there will be more adventure, more travel and an important relationship with Sansa Stark.”
… Sansa is always so sad. Will she cry less and act more in this season?
AG: “My lady? Last season she had to face a lot, but in the new episodes she will undergo major changes: first of all with regard to the hair! And then the change of clothes: always wearing black and lots of feathers: it is becoming a darkettona! We will have the goth version of Sansa.”
Cian: All of the questions and answers posted are translated by the run-of-the-mill Google Translate. I’ve cleaned up and paraphrased a few of the obvious translation errors, but if anyone is an Italian speaker and can provide further insight into the interview, we’d be delighted for the help.
Hmmm what could he possibly mean..?
“very little (if any) of their on-screen material will be adapted directly from the books.”
That’s purely speculation. Unless you mean “directly from the published books.” Maybe it’s all based on TWOW, maybe none of it is. Probably it’s a mixture of TWOW material and D&D’s inventions. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that Sansa’s story won’t be “adapted from the books” this season. We don’t know that, not truly. The actors don’t either. Only D&D, Cogman and GRRM know.
Bogden,
Well, we’re beyond the books at this point. No matter if it comes purely from D&D’s imagination or from TWOW (or more likely, a mixture of both), it’s all spoilers from here on in, even for book readers. That’s what he means. If you’re asking what these spoilers might be… well, it’s almost impossible to guess, precisely because for the first time we have no published source material to rely on! 😉
Luka Nieto:
Edit – gah, spoiler tag failure 🙁
Bogden,
Even though if anything this interview disproves that theory.
Ah well. Theories tend to endure no matter how many holes are shot into them.
Greenjones,
Well from what I’ve seen I’m pretty sure it’s gonna happen.
Buonissimo Aiden!
Bogden,
Et tu, Bogden?
Anymore casting scoops btw?
lol
people reading and saying sansa @ winterfell is out!
as if aidan would reveal something like that!
vale politics for 8 episodes??
NO FUCKING WAY!
don,
The point is that Littlefinger’s mission, implicitly set up at the end of Season 4, explicitly at the end of AFFC, and confirmed by this interview, conflicts with this theory. I really don’t see how taking control of the Vale would involve marrying Sansa to Ramsay in Winterfell. It just doesn’t follow in any logical way.
Oh, and “eight episodes”? Where did you get that from? As I said in other thread, I think people overestimate the amount of plot and story per character that is usually covered within a season. There’s plenty of suggested material for a whole Sansa season arc, maybe too much of it, without ever going near Winterfell. Let me explain.
Except for Tyrion, Daenerys, Jon and Arya (who usually have around 45 to 55 minutes of screen time each per season), D&D have had no quarrels cutting on screen time —or number of appearances— for certain characters, particularly in the last few seasons. As I often say, Theon and the Boltons had a hefty enough plot this past season, covering the Fall of Moat Cailin and the recapture of the North, yet they only appeared in three episodes (and a whole third of it is considered filler by many!). Obviously Sansa and Littlefinger are more relevant characters, but still, few characters are in 8 episodes per season. Please remember that Sansa only had 25 minutes of screen time once she left King’s Landing last season. Don’t overestimate how much can be done within that purview.
In other words, there’s plenty for Sansa to do in the Vale for a season, especially if she’s only in 6 or 7 episodes, with about 30 to 40 minutes of screen time in total. There’s no need for “aimlessly wandering around the Vale”, or whatever it is that people fear will happen if they don’t stick her in someone else’s storyline.
Bogden,
Indeed. I’m not too worried about convincing them anymore, since none of the actual evidence provided has done so. They’ll realize soon enough, when none of it happens once the season is over.
Season 5 starts with Goth Sansa holding sick sweet robin in the moon door by his neck scruff…yelling at him saying the vale is mine bitch…..little finger lurking in the shadows….”yes Sansa…yesss your transformation is almost complete”….just a non serious laughable thought
Jaime’sHand1220,
I know it’s a joke, but I’ll make use of it, if you don’t mind, to point something out: a lot of people have theorized many things about Sansa’s story, and some of them involve the Eyre (especially the Moon Door, jokingly or not.) However, the Eyrie set was torn down when Sansa’s filming was done for season four, which means they will make no more use of it. Sansa, Littlefinger and Robin “abandoned the nest” last season and they won’t come back.
Afraid not 🙁
There is something I would be grateful if someone explained it to me : why can’t George RR Martin just give DD & DB the material he already has written for the Winds of Winter (I heard he was in half-way through writing the book at this point) ? And besides the ending and the storyline directions why can’t he tell them the general description (and steps) of each character’s storyline until the end of A Dream of Spring ?
TL,
They have seen that material (at least insofar as they’ll needed at least some of it for s5 and even a tad of it for s4). Hence their incorporating Mercy into ep. 401
There’ll be more TWOW-wise in s5, we just won’t really know if it’s from there or not (unless it’s from sample chapters). And then s6 will be full-on TWOW.
I’ll eat my hat if Sansa dicks around in the Vale for more than one episode lol. Not happening
TL,
They have. Some people like to ignore it, but D&D (and Cogman, at least to an extent) DO know that’s going to be happening throughout TWOW and ADOS. Not just the end-game; the journey as well. A few years ago they met to get all that information for the first time, and only weeks ago GRRM met them to outline season 6.
Then, why do people assume that the show is not gonna make use of any of that information if necessary? Beats me. Wishful thinking by spoiler-averse book readers, I imagine.
Turncloak,
Whether Sansa goes to Winterfell or not, we know for a fact she will still be in the Vale by episode 3, so… you may begin eating your hat.
Just because you don’t know what’s happening in the Vale in TWOW (or in D&D’s imagination; probably a mix of both), it doesn’t meant that nothing is happening. Book readers have to start getting used to not knowing what’s happening in the future. “No published source material” does not equal “No source material” anymore.
Where do we know that from, out of interest? How far is the Vale from Winterfell anyway?
Would you like hot sauce with that? Plenty of relevant stuff happening (and characters running around) in the Vale and nearby Riverlands this season. 🙂
3 episodes in the Vale and 7 in Winterfell is my estimate
Bogden,
Hoyti Von Totiy,
She won’t be in 10 episodes. Almost no character is. Sansa will have, as always, about 30 to 40 minutes of screen time, and considering Season 4’s format, probably only about 6 or 7 episodes.
As I previously pointed out, some people overestimate the amount of plot and story per character that is usually covered within a season. Sansa only had 25 minutes of screen time once she left King’s Landing last season. Don’t overestimate how much can be done within that purview. There’s plenty for Sansa to do in the Vale for a season, especially if she’s only in two thirds of the episodes, with about 30 to 40 minutes of screen time in total.
I’m really don’t know what to think about Sansa’s storyline this season, but this interview doesn’t mean no WF. If Littlefinger in KL was just a theory, then everyone eiukd be using this interview as evidence he doesn’t go to KL; but we know he does.
Hopefully D&D are able to give Sansa a good meaty storyline this season even if she stays in the Vale. Napping with Robin and gossiping on donkeys wouldn’t make the best TV.
Brennan,
The point is not that because he says “we’ll be in the Vale” it means they won’t leave the Vale, which we know isn’t true, as you said (at least in Petyr’s case.) The point is that there is no conceivable reason that their mission (that is, to take control of the Vale, as he says in the interview, and as it was set up both by the books and the show) would bring them to Winterfell, especially if it somehow involves the theorized marriage. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Pretty far. 800-900 miles, by my estimate. Not that reasonable travel times are adhered to all that much in the show. Take Roose and Arya for instance. Both end Season 3 in roughly the same place, The Twins or its close vicinity. Roose arrives in Dreadfort in 4×02, covering around 900 miles. Arya and Hound arrive at the Eyrie in 4×08 although the distance between the Twins and the Eyrie is only 400-500 miles.
Luka Nieto,
Ahh damn …dreams ruined (show watcher….reading clash) but very in tune with spoilers and some plots
Luka Nieto,
“Whether Sansa goes to Winterfell or not, we know for a fact she will still be in the Vale by episode 3”
Source?
Turncloak,
Sansa was in 7 episodes in S4. Probably a reasonable expectation that this remains pretty consistent in S5.
Here’s what Sansa got up to in her 7 episodes in S4:
-Miserable in KL, scenes with Tyrion in preparation of wedding
-approached by Dontos to wear necklace
-a part of wedding party where she suffers mostly in silence and eventually flees
-escapes KL with Dontos, arrives at LF’s ship, he kills Dontos, smashes necklace
– On the ship later, he gives her lowdown of his plan
– they arrive in Vale, meet up with Lysa and Robin, gets Alayne moniker, Lysa and LF get married
– meets privately with Lysa, family talk becomes uncomfortable because Lysa crazy
– goes out and builds a WF snowcastle, Robin talks to her for a bit, is an asshole, she slaps him
-LF comes out and creeps on her
– She has her confrontation with Lysa and then Lysa gets tossed
– She appears before Lords of the Vale and gives her truthful except for the end story
– She talks to LF in her room to explain why she did this
– She shows up in her new goth gear to show Robin/LF
That’s a lot of exciting stuff interacting with a fair number of different characters.
So in S5, here is what we have so far in the scenario where she doesn’t leave the Vale:
-She’s travelling with Robin/LF in the Vale countryside when Brienne and Pod show up
-Some kind of confrontation/argument where Brienne is eventually chased off
-LF gives her some kind of vengeance speech and then leaves for King’s Landing
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………….
bathtub by herself in darkened room looking apprehensive
……………………………………………………………………….
………………………………………………………………………
………………………………………………………………………
We know the Eyrie set has been torn down which links up well with the books since it doesn’t appear like the Eyrie evacuation that’s being done in AFFC means anyone’s going back there while winter is in full swing.
Possible theories I’ve seen here thrown out is that she murders Robyn on LF’s orders (which makes zero sense but I guess that’s something at least). Not sure where this is supposed to take place but “the Vale” seems good enough. LF in this scenario presumably returns down the road and then “somewhere in the Vale” she has a bath and then they talk about all the great things they’re going to do with the other main characters in the following season and maybe he tries to get physical with her and she lets him or doesn’t.
Sounds amazing.
King Tommen,
Just because we haven’t read TWOW doesn’t mean that nothing happens in it. Presumably it won’t be a 1500 book full of blank pages, will it? Either you’re pulling an enormous straw-man or you truly believe that nothing will be advanced from TWOW to Sansa’s season five story. Even if not much of it is included, why do you assume that D&D can’t possibly make up a plot for her that you couldn’t just predict based on the books? I remind you that you can’t predict much, because Sansa’s at the end of her AFFC story already. Whatever comes next will be a surprise to us, whether it comes from D&D, from GRRM, or most likely both. It’s pretty disingenous to say “well, what will she do in the Vale? She has nothing to do!” when you don’t actually know that. At all.
King Tommen,
Yup the problem that people don’t realize is that there has been no new Vale casting. Do people expect Sansa to interact with only LF, Robin, and Brienne throughout the whole season? Nonsense. We also don’t even know if the lords declarent are returning
Luka Nieto,
the leaked script never says that. The leaked script only implies that Sansa ran into Brienne because she was fleeing.
Turncloak,
And that implication comes from a part of a script that he claimed is either from episode 2 or 3 (he seemed to only have a complete episode 1 script, or maybe not even that). So the encounter happens in either of those episodes. But… hell, it might happen earlier, somehow! That’s still more than 1 episode in the Vale.
A hat must be eaten. Can I hold you to it? 😛
He had a role in Calvary, a great Irish movie from last year by John Michael McDonagh (brother of Martin McDonagh who made In Bruges, one of the best movies ever).
only if the show goes GRRM on us and starts the filler game of mule/bucket riding and gazing into the mountans.
Luka Nieto,
You’re reading too much into it. His information is not at all clear in relation to Brienne and Pod and he makes a clear speculation of what he thinks happened. Hell he even tells us that it’s speculation by using the word “implied”
Turncloak,
Speculating can be fun but don’t get too worked up about it, in a couple months we’ll see it for ourselves regardless.
I was just going to say: “one would hope this puts a stop to the ‘Sansa in Winterfell’ nonsense, but I bet it won’t”… and then I saw in the comments just how true that is! ROTFLMAO
I can see the lovers of “Sansa in Winterfell” theory still insisting that she’ll go there throughout the season…
Yeah, but it could be worse, imagine 15 (approximately) episodes of Meereen politics or 50 episodes of King’s Landing politics!!! Why can’t Cersei go to Iron Islands to marry Balon instead?
Luka Nieto,
That does also does not prove that it’s more than one episode in the vale. We know that Fat Walda will appear in episode 1. It’s highly likely that the shot in winterfell with the bolton family in a horizontal line is from that same episode.
My speculation of this is that LF and Sansa parley with the Boltons in episode 1. Maybe a wedding arrangement is agreed to (with either Alayne Stone or Winterfell worker as the bride). From there Sansa can go back to the Vale until the wedding. She can run into Brienne on her way back to the Vale.
The way this works out leads me to believe that Stannis will send Davos to the Vale to request swords (instead of white harbor). This leads me to believe that we will get a Sansa “the north remembers speech”.
I think Wyman’s role is too important to flat out drop without giving it to someone else.
Anyway this does not mean we will get multiple Vale episodes. Maybe 2-3 at most but I’m still sticking with one
Luka Nieto,
I think it’s a very creaky assumption to make that whatever Sansa does in TWoW takes place entirely in the Vale and away from all the other main characters in the story.
We even have LF telling Sansa in AFFC that his goal for her is to marry her off and have her take Winterfell so that he can secure the North. Is none of that happening in TWoW?
It stands to reason that a character like Harry the Heir isn’t going to be introduced on the show. He’s exactly the type of character they excise and instead use someone we already know to fill the space.
I’m not making fan-fiction up here, I’m speculating that they’re accelerating Sansa’s story and being economical in not bringing in useless side characters in the Vale where for all we know, the books don’t bother hanging around with since the Eyrie seems to be out of commission with the arrival of winter.
I am using the knowledge that D&D have shown time and time again that they prefer to consolidate storylines and bring main characters together as opposed to isolating them as the books do.
I see no good reason that they would take the only main character Sansa can interact with and put him into the KL storyline but not do anything with her. If there was some TWoW edict that forced them to keep Sansa in the Vale for the whole season, there’s no good reason to eject LF from there and make her even more isolated. That doesn’t track.
Obviously she’s got to be dealing with other main characters while LF leaves. You just have to figure out which ones. Brienne could have been an option but the leak more or less closes off that option based on their interaction in the opening couple episodes. So who’s left?
I’m just spent. We’ll see what happens in two months and a half. This arguing gets a bit tiring. Anyone wanna bet something? For charity, of course. Just to make it a bit more fun? 😛
Annara Snow,
You forget that Aiden Gillen’s troll level is almost near Lena Headey levels. For season 4 he said that “Sansa and LF will have a father daughter relationship”. Take what he says with a grain of salt.
Also, he just said that he can’t talk about season 5 right before he talks about the vale? Why would he flat out spoil something that he said he can’t talk about? It’s because what he said about the vale is probably not true
Turncloak,
Or maybe it’s what was set up last season so it’s not a spoiler.
Or yeah, he’s lying and it will be all about Winterfell. Why not.
Luka Nieto,
You’re going to bet against Sansa and LF going to Winterfell in season 5? Good luck winning that one
Turncloak,
Want to? I’m not kidding. It’ll be fun. Let’s say 10 or 20 US dollars to any charity. If we want we could set different standards (personally, I find it unlikely but possible that she’ll go to Winterfell… but pretty much impossible that she’ll go as a Jayne Poole replacement.)
hahahahahahhaha i’m dying hahahahhaa….
Why can’t Brienne go to Mereen and marry Dany as fHizdahr?
Why can’t Theon go to Dorne and marry Jaime as fCersei?
New interview by Sophie Turner
“Can you give us any season five plot spoilers? ‘Well, there’s a lot of death – as always! I’m also really excited for Arya’s storyline. But in terms of my character Sansa, let’s just say she spots a few familiar faces…”
Read more at http://www.instyle.co.uk/celebrity/news/game-of-thrones-star-sophie-turner-talks-sansa-stark-fashion-and-season-5-spoilers?utm_campaign=sophieturner&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social#otGckXk5Z7Qgqvg5.99
Turncloak,
Hope we get some more interviews. Or… a second trailer, HBO! 😛
Clearly this means Anya Waynwood is back!!!!! GoT audience is going to be pumped, Sophie knows what the fans want!!!!!!!!!!
King Tommen,
Anyone take me up on my bet? It’s for charity! I’m not being disingenuous. It could be both fun and helpful 😉
Luka Nieto,
True I think she will meet Brienne and Pod, but we think they have a falling out of some sort and Brienne flees. I suspect that she meets Theon as well
Turncloak,
I gather from the interview that the lords declarant will return , LF’s trial last season made it seem like they wrapped up AFFC storyline in 1 episode and all the lords are on the same page with LF but it looks like they only ended Lysa’s murder trial storyline while leaving LF playing the game of thrones in the vale and getting the lords under his control .
Separating those two is great decision since they won’t have to remind people of something that happened last season and it would be easier for viewers to understand characters motivations .
CLEGANEBOWL GET HYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Turncloak,
I’m sticking with my Vale/Sansa speculation from the previous thread, much of which this thread is just repeating. Sansa won’t be going to WF…yet. This is a building season for Sansa the gamer….and there is plenty of stuff to explore and build upon without merging with Theon’s arc.
A Man Grown,
I saw that. Movie was good. Brendan Gleeson was tremendous and Aidan was just as good.
King Tommen,
Theon is a, “few familiar faces?” Because he’s the only one she’s met in that plot line.
How about Brienne, Pod, maybe even the Hound? There’s actually real evidence for the first two.
There’s a lot of confirmation bias happening in this Sansa debate. Reminds me of all the “evidence” for LSH and Roose Change.
Gatsby,
Where did I say Theon? I said Anya Waynwood. Get hype!
I agree that Gillen would never spoil a plot twist like that in a pre-season interview. He states that LF and Sansa are setting out on a journey, but we know that LF doesn’t stick around in the Vale for the whole season. Why should we assume that Sansa does? If this interview isn’t evidence of LF never leaving the Vale in Season 5–since we know that he does–why is it evidence of Sansa sticking around in the Vale?
I dunno, you guys. I am increasingly convinced:
1. No new Vale castings.
2. LF spends part of the season in KL, although whether it’s a scene or multiple episodes is unknown, and there’s no indication that Sansa is with him.
3. Both Alfie and Sophie make allusions to storylines crossing over in Season 5, with particular emphasis on their own storylines. Sophie says “a lot of mingling” takes place in Season 5. Some have suggested that Sansa is just referencing Pod and Brienne, but we have pretty reliable spoilers that the extent of their interaction, if any, is LF having them chased off in Episode 2, meaning that whatever interaction they have is either nonexistent or brief.
4. Sophie Turner has said that her Season 5 storyline “goes in a completely different direction,” suggesting that she doesn’t wind up going on a sedate tour of the Vale as advertised in 4×08.
5. Sophie Turner has said that her Season 5 storyline gives her the opportunity to work with “new people” and goes in a “completely different direction,” but there have been no new Vale castings, and the established Vale characters would not be “new people,” as she’s already worked with them in Season 4.
6. Sophie Turner has said that Sansa will undergo a “lot of hardships” in Season 5, and has specifically referenced filming a “super traumatic” scene that was supposedly difficult for the crew members to watch.
7. Recapped.com, a celebrity nudity spoiler site which has been unerring with respect to its accuracy regarding GOT in the past, posts a “rumour”–although all of the spoilers on that site have been described as “rumours”–that Sansa’s bath from the trailer is in preparation for her wedding, which will take place and which will be consummated. No news of Harry the Heir or any similar characters being cast.
Any one of these in isolation can be explained away, but when I add it all up, I have to wonder.
I’m intrigued by where Sansa’s “building” storyline goes this season, but for me the real meat in S5 will be in KL, at the wall, and across the Narrow Sea.
Dorne…IDK…too far removed from canon, will just smile and be thankful…
I hope we get to meet dog….
And to bang on my tired old drum, we have to remember the story. Sansa needs to do what all of the other lead characters are doing in some way. If they are going to do a Barbie->Boudica transition for Sansa, then it is going to take some screen time. Sansa will probably get a little over an hour this season. There are background plotlines done by incidental characters that could easily be transferred to Sansa Ascendant and the Vale Knights: but quite a bit of development will be needed for this to happen.
But the biggest thing is this: after 4 years, there has to be substantial and believable dynamic development of Sansa for the audience to buy it. A new Goth outfit isn’t enough: we need to see, well, Ice and Blood, and we need to see it over several episodes. If B&W did not make it so that Turncloak has to eat his hat, then they will be eating a lot of WTF? audience reactions! (I’ll chip in to the sauce fund, by the way.)
Even in the books, I can think of a few things that might “distract” her from moving on or towards Winterfell too quickly…..
(I wonder if that Apotheosis of Incidental Characters will be a “familiar face” that Sansa meets? :P)
Yeah, as I posted in the Alfie thread and as others have since, given,
A. Gillen says LF and Sansa are trying to take over the Vale this season
and
B. LF is deffo in KL this season, depsite Gillen not mentioning that and seeming to contradict that
therefore
C. This does nothing to contradict the Winterfell theory.
Bogden,
I am guess it means exactly what is says.
Wimsey,
Literally no character has had 1 hour of screen time in a single season (except for Jon and Tyrion, maybe, because they had each a whole episode focused on their storyline.) And you expect Sansa to have more than an hour?
“‘Game of Thrones’ is so unpredictable and it was a big surprise what is happening to her this season,” Turner says. “I am so excited because it gives me the opportunity to work with new people and it goes in a completely different direction. I think the fans will really like where her storyline is going this season.”
http://www.hitfix.com/awards-campaign/sophie-turner-says-sansas-game-of-thrones-season-5-storyline-was-a-big-surprise#gc65Fe6mpVGUPy4l.99
This is from back in August and I still don’t get why people aren’t going back to this. The expectation based on how S4 ended is that Sansa is going to travel around the Vale with Robin so that he can solidify his hold on his subjects. This is how Gillan characterized how the season “set out” in his interview too.
If there is a “big surprise”, and “things go in a completely different direction” and she is “working with new people”, how does her staying in the Vale trying to solidify LF’s hold on it fit? Answer: it doesn’t.
How about Sansa takes over jaimes storyline in riverlands? But instead negotiates with the freys to give up riverrun
Add the Turner quote to the Alfie Allen one:
“I can tell you that there will be characters crossing paths and interacting — especially in my storyline — who have never met, or have had just minute amounts of screentime together. That relationship blossoms, and the running theme of Season 5 is that you get so many different characters who were in different parts of the world crossing paths with each other.”
http://www.digitaltrends.com/features/game-of-thrones-season-5-interview-reek-reveals-all/#ixzz3Ss806x5r
Characters who have never met or just minute amounts of screentime “Especially in my storyline” and “that relationship blossoms”.
Who else can we be talking about? If you squint, maybe you can argue he’s talking about Stannis but even if they do cross paths, that’s right at the very end of the season. I don’t think that’s much opportunity for their relationship to “blossom”. Maybe it’s Mance, but do we really think he’s going to Winterfell as opposed to interacting with Jon at the Wall or Hardhome or even marching with Stannis?
There’s also the “especially my storyline” qualifier which would indicate it’s either multiple characters that get paired up who never have before or that the pair up he’s discussing is a big deal because the characters are major ones. Either way, there’s no other character that fits this description unless you simply choose to think he’s not being truthful or he’s exaggerating.
Finally, Allen also re-emphasizes that the S5 theme is that characters who were in one location will cross paths with those in other locations. This has been repeated by a number of cast members and I don’t think you continually bring that up unless it’s happening all over the place.
King Tommen,
One thing I learned: don’t trust Sophie’s interviews.
Ironborn,
She’s definitely all over the map but Alfie’s saying something very similar so the evidence is piling up.
Alfie Allen is talking about Greatjon Umber, we know he will return in some moment and this is a perfect time.
Well I know a lot less than most of you but I just blazed and the clarity has hit me……Sansa holding robin by his scruff telling him the Vale is hers bitch…then looks up at little finger…(eyes twitching) and LF says fuck this I’m going to go see if I can get this dragon ladies shit together….and don’t give me anything bout the vale set …ITS HAPPENING
Little finger shows up and starts to talk and Drogon lights his ass up before half a word gets out
Aiden Gillen joking that he’s a perfect model for Sansa because he’s teaching her so many things and that the journey of Baelish and Sansa through the Vale reminds him of Harry Potter are remarkable things for the lols. He also says that his favorite character is Arya.
And there is a kind of an important thing: when asked if he can reveal something about the new season, he says: “There will be a new character. The High Sparrow, played by Jonathan Price who is an amazing actor and he’s perfect in this role, he’s a spiritual leader, like Gandhi but not as good as Gandhi”.
Than the interviewer asks him: “Have you recorded any scene with him?” and he says; “I can’t tell you! But the trailer is very good, I understand there are high expectations about it.”
I thought it was relevant… and it’s a nice translation, overall ;D
If Sansa shows up at Winterfell it will be to blow up Ramsey’s marriage to imposter Arya. She will claim Winterfell again and the Bolton’s will have to go elsewhere. Since it was Tywin Lannister who gave Bolton the North and he’s dead, now all bets are off. With Cersei being confronted (ahem) by the High Sparrow, the Bolton’s have no allies. None in the North will fight against a Stark-Stannis will support a Stark and no one is left in King’s Landing to say any different. Even Jaime will support her back in Winterfell-his pledge to Catelyn was to return her safely home. Ta DA!
honey I’m home,
Sansa going to Winterfell for any other reason than marrying Ramsay seems more believable to me, to be honest. I’m not convinced, but it’s certainly more possible than Sansa replacing Jayne, as I see it. None of it works. Marrying Sansa to Ramsay as Sansa Stark wouldn’t work for a myriad reasons. Marrying her as Alayne would be worthless.
Marrying Sansa to Ramsay as Sansa Stark wouldn’t work for a myriad reasons.
First of all, with that marriage Boltons will have a legitimate right to WF,
Sorry! I should have written “at most, an hour.” You are correct, individual characters do not get that much time.
And just to clarify, my point was that if she has only an hour (or less), then she cannot be done with the Vale already after 3 episodes. It’s going to be protracted, and there is going to be a lot of development.
Actually, it does a ton to contradict the Winterfell conjecture. Let’s say that Sansa gets one hour. Could you have Sansa dynamically grow into a powerful woman who becomes the leader in the Vale, and then send her off to pretend to be Arya in a single “All Sansa All the Time” episode?
Of course not. What Gillen tells us means that Sansa will be spending a lot of time working the Vale: and that means there will not be enough time left over for the Winterfell conjecture.
SANSA WILL NOT MARRY RAMSEY BOLTON……sorry for yelling, just making a point. If she goes to Winterfell it will be to claim it- not to be some USURPER’S wife.
mau,
Sansa Stark is wanted for assassinating the king, remember? And Cersei wants “that murderous little bitch” very dead indeed. Marrying Sansa Stark would be far more trouble than it’s worth, at least while the Lannisters are in power.
Wimsey,
Oh, I agreed with the rest of your post. Just pointing out the screen time discrepancy.
Wimsey,
James Rivers is right, and you’re wrong. All Gillen said is that they’re “setting out” on a journey. That only describes their starting point. We know that LF at least does not continue on that path, so this interview is no confirmation that Sansa will.
I’m also interested to know how you expect Sansa will “work the Vale” when no new Vale characters have been cast, and beyond Sweetrobin, there’s no confirmation that any of the 4×08 Vale lords and lady are back.
You’re assuming that you know Sansa’s endgame and then working backwards to rule things out. Big mistake. (Huge.) You’re also assuming that you know Sansa’s Season 5 endgame and that there is only one possible path to that destination (Sansa “working the Vale”), and that nothing that deviates from that path could happen. Also a big mistake. (Huge.)
It’s important to stick to things that are known about Season 5, rather than talking about what you imagine MUST be the case for Sansa based on what you think MUST be her arc.
Say LF and Sansa take hold of Riverlands and the Vale quickly. As far as they know, Sansa is the heir to WF. Marrying Ramsay would give her WF without having to battle the Boltons. When the Boltons are killed off, Sansa is in place.
Stannis demands she resign in favor of Rickon. She doesn’t. Queue another battle.
M,
First, you are also making a huge assumption when you say LF, “does not continue on that path.” He doesn’t have to be in the Vale to work to solidify his control there.
Second, your last two paragraphs could easily be leveled as criticsm towards Sansa in Winterfell supporters.
One habit that all (good!) scientists develop is to give the opposing argument the maximum benefit of the doubt. Even giving that maximum, it’s tough to see how you can have what Gillen describes AND the Wintefell Conjecture.
For James River’s suggestion to be likely, Sansa would need much more screen time than characters not named Jon, Daenerys or Tyrion are ever going to get: and, really, more time that they get. His conclusion becomes invalid once we add the time-constraint.
Why do Vale characters need to be cast? This is TV: and like all forms of enacted storytelling, it will use Greek Choruses. There will be a Vale chorus. Maybe we’ll see the Declarents from last year, maybe not: it won’t matter because they will be token representations of a group of people. (This is not literature where they must have names and rudimentary development a la Manderly or Greatjon. You cannot see a group in a book, so books use different tactics.)
Gatsby,
We know that LF isn’t “journeying through the Vale” for at least part of Season 5. Gillen specifically said that not that LF and Sansa will be solidifying control of House Arryn, but that they’re setting out on a journey through the Vale, which anyone who’d seen 4×08 could have told you. We know that LF doesn’t stay in the Vale, and we also know that he does not specifically mention this in the interview. Why assume that Sansa does, based on the interview? Gillen also says in the interview that he can’t discuss Season 5 all that much, which explains why he essentially just summarizes the status quo as of the end of Season 4 when describing his story arc in Season 5. I honestly don’t get why this is so difficult to grasp and why so many are arguing what is a pretty self-evident point:
1. If there were a big plot twist about Sansa going to Winterfell, he would not spoil it in an interview.
2. He said that he and Sansa are setting out on a journey through the Vale.
3. He didn’t say that he goes to KL, but we know for a fact that he does, meaning he withheld key information about his upcoming Season 5 plot. That suggests he’s not being entirely forthcoming about Sansa’s arc as well.
4. The interview therefore does nothing to contradict the theory that Sansa goes to Winterfell.
Got it? Good.
With respect to your second point, not really. IF Sansa is supposed to end up at Winterfell eventually, that might explain why D&D have done this, but that doesn’t really support the theory; it would only make the reasoning behind it seem less confusing. What Wimsey is doing is saying “Sansa is going to become a powerful leader of the Vale, and therefore she can’t go to Winterfell,” which is no argument to rule anything out given our collective ignorance of where Sansa is going to end up. Basically, we shouldn’t be ruling anything out based on our notions of what Sansa may or may not be ending up. Book readers say this sort of nonsense all the time, and it drives me up the wall.
You wouldn’t need huge amounts of time to get Sansa to WF. She could easily end up there via invisible travel toward the middle of the season, then it would take one part of an episode to marry her to Ramsay. Doing that would save time, too, by cutting out extraneous characters.
The show has only thirty episodes to finish up. There’s not enough episodes to keep Sansa and LF playing games in the Riverlands, or for Tyrion’s travels, Dany’s problems in Meereen. All of these characters will need to move on.
Italian native speaker here. You and Google Translate did a pretty good job! The only thing that’s kinda oddly translated is this part of the last question: “it is becoming a darkettona!”. It should be translated as “she [Sansa] is turning into a goth girl!”.
It seems Maleficent Sansa will be back in season 5. *Sighs*
Mr Fixit,
Non modern armies traveled at a snails pace (not counting Zulus) compared to two lone travelers. An army would spend several hours breaking camp and begin marching by mid morning, but only moved as fast as it’s heavily laden supply wagons. Then by mid afternoon, it would begin setting up camp in a race to nightfall . The most a medieval army would travel, unless in a hurry to get somewhere, was roughly 6-7 hours (15-20 miles) a day, give or take, weather conditions was also a factor, mitigating the whole process.
Whereas a fit person, not heavily laden can walk perhaps 3.5 to 4 mph on roads/trails and 2 on uneven terrain. They could begin the walk about 6 or 7 am, and travel 10-12 hours before making camp. Therefore roughly 35-45 miles per day, twice or more than twice that of an army. That’s not including if they had mounts, the distance would increase by another 10-20 miles.
I am loving this quality discussion! Thanks Luka for all the fact-heavy comments in particular.
Obviously no one has considered that Sansa will be prepping for her marriage to LF thus driving the Sansa-Petyr shippers insane! 😉
Maria,
The only way Sansa would go to WF (and that’s without LF knowledge) would be to stop the marriage to fArya. Therefore she would travel under guise of a diplomatic entourage from the Vale to attend the nuptials.
It would be a way to merge story arcs before the climax in season 7.
After all D&D have to bring the arcs together for the season 7 showdown in the North, unless the WW head south fast enough where everyone converges somewhere near or at KL instead.
tyjon,
Sure…that’s exactly my point. Roose and his escort (not a whole army admittedly) needed 2 episodes to cover 800-900 miles. Arya and the Hound needed 8 episodes for half that distance.
She has no reason to go without LF’s knowledge. If the two hold the Riverlands and the Vale, then the North is the next stop. LF already said this is their goal. The most direct route north is to marry Sansa to Bolton.
LF in KL can fix a couple of problems: He can get Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion annulled, and he can clear her of the suspicion of poisoning Joffrey. After that, sky’s the limit for Sansa.
That would bring LF/Sansa, Jon, and Stannis plots together. In the novels, Sansa-LF plot is dangling there. Replacing fArya with the real Sansa would solve it.
Loved the sight visions this time round, would have been nice to see Sansa in her goth garb strutting her stuff whilst Paedofinger creepily eats her up with paedo eyes. But hey ho!
Nice to see so many people invested to some degree with her upcomig arc, all I want to see is a more subtle growth into a player, moving away from the quietly defiant but passive character she has been thus far. I want them to delve into the realisation that she will have to be her own saviour, I pray Cogman wrote for her this season, he really understands her character well and has previously said he loves writing for her.
Slay me Season 5!
Maria,
The issue is screen time. The “travel” is not geographic: Sansa has to go from Barbie to Boudica in 50 or so minutes spread over 10 weeks. That is a lot of dynamic development. Basically, they have to do more in that time than they had to do for Daeny in Season 1 because Sansa is starting “lower” than Daeny did: 4 years of Sansa’s character development has to be undone in this season.
Four years of character development has to be ‘undone?’ It’s not like it would be a digression. It’s a natural progression from how her character has been built from the beginning. It’s especially building on her development in season 4 as she started to develop a sense of agency.
With how well they developed her in season 4 with limited screentime, I have no doubt it could be successfully done in season 5.
If only we could get back the Aiden we had from Season One. I fear Bane crushed his vocal cords too hard up on that plane.
I’m confused why people think Sansa would go to Winterfell. First of all she’s supposed to be hiding from Cersei/Lannisters for her role in Joffrey’s death. Plus, its not like she can be strutting around the Boltons or would Petyr risk losing his Queen/heir to Winterfell & the North by pulling her out of hiding too soon. Right now he has no powerful armies until he gets total control in the Vale. Now Sansa admitting who she was to the Lord Protectors will change things but I don’t think its going to be to Littlefinger’s benefit that people so dangerous and traitorous as the Boltons know where she is. IMO I think he’s going to wait until the Lannisters (more Cersei than anyone now) fall completely and lose their power then wait until Stannis and Roose take each other out before he brings out Sansa to reunited the North under the Stark flag.
What I don’t know is whether Littlefinger has any idea that Robb Stark’s heir is actually beyond the Wall and not dead. The Boltons do and so does Jon Snow but Littlefinger might have missed that little bit of gossip.
Correct. The trick with dynamic character development is to show us that a character really has changed, and to make us accept it. That is not easy: it’s the same thing as your parents thinking of you as you were as a child long after the fact. We’ve had 4 years of watching Sansa basically be completely passive and confused. Presumably she is now going to start taking charge. One dramatic walk down a stairwell does not suffice: they are going to have to devote most of her screen time this year to showing us that she’s evolving rapidly into a player.
Again, this isn’t ‘undoing’ her character development, unless you’re saying that over the four seasons she has developed into a more and more passive and shy person? But this is obviously not the case. It won’t be undoing her development, it will be continuing it.
I mean really? Are you sure you watched season 4?
I’m not sure why I’m insisting on Sansa in Winterfell as I don’t really think it’ll happen, but why would she need to turn Boudicca to go there? It would be like what she’s had to endure for four seasons: bad betrothal and marriage, rescue when she least expects it.
No, I’m stating that they have to develop her as opposite of what Sansa was: thinking instead of unthinking; active rather than passive; empathetic rather than self-centered. Basically, they have to go from -5 to +5 on many key characteristics, rather than going from 0 to 5 on those characteristics. Therefore, they must undevelop the unthinkingness, the passivity, the lack of larger awareness, etc. We need to see someone who is, in many ways, Anti-Sansa of the first four seasons. (In the books, she thinks of this as
This is very different from expanding a character so that he/she starts doing things that previously had not been relevant to the character. Those are 0->5 dynamic developments that add complexity, etc.
Sansa needs to turn Boudica if she is to assert herself as the Heir of Winterfell. (I picked Boudica simply because of the semi-alliteration. I’m like that….) Whether that will be Queen in the North, or just the Lady of Winterfell remains to be seen: obviously, there are other factors at work.
The other thing to keep in mind is the story. Crows/Dragons is a story about people striving to become more than they were or thought themselves to be or others thought them to be. Sansa was, well, Sansa. She needs to be exceptional now. (Well, on the other end of the Bell curve, anyway…. :P)
When Aidan talks about how she wears so much black, you guys left the translation as “it is becoming a real darkettona!” The word “darkettona” is not in the Italian language and that is why Google failed to translate it; it’s the feminine suffix “-ettona” which means ‘big’ and the English word “dark” – the best way I can put it is that he’s trying to say “she’s becoming a real darkling,” so to speak. I’m not sure if you have a word for someone who wears black a lot (aside from the word goth) but that’s essentially what he’s trying to get across.
Also when he said “you notice so much?” it was really an “is it that noticeable?”
**SPOILER ALERT**
I don’t know. I just started reading A World Of Ice And Fire, and one of the major points in the early Targaryan rule is that Dorne, for the most part. Stayed out of the fray while the Storm Lords, the Western Alliances, Harrenhal and the River Lords, and to a certainties existent, the North all marched on the new Dynasty, and they all bent the knee one way or another. The Vale is in the same place that Dorne was in before Aegon came with his sisters and dragons and smote the west. The Eyre has already been set up as an impregnable castle, so it HAS to fall either to Dany and her dragons or (F)Aegon and his conquest (which looks to be off to a good start in the storm lands; surely not Stannis). Whether Sansa is there or not, someone will burn that fortress to the ground. Hell, maybe (F)Aegon and Sansa will hot it off and unite the North and the Vale, which should be at full strength, especially with LF there to oversee it all.
Turncloak,
While I see the point some are making about Sansa making a big turnaround and this requiring time and effort, if you look at the past 4 seasons (and Sophie alludes to this in her recent IGN interview Greenjones posted last night) it has been a slow but gradual transition from selfish wimpy teenager to Dark Sansa and that transition began earlier than some are crediting her for. Obviously she made huge mistakes and was naive in the first few seasons and books, but later we saw hints of her at least comprehending a game was being played around her, and then later actively playing (season 4 Vale material). Putting off Petyr’s offer to help her escape from KL to that she could hopefully marry Loras was not her most genius move since LF already knew, but she’s actively lying to try to better her position at least. “Lady Stark, you may survive us yet” line from Tyrion was in S3 I think. I just don’t think this is as sudden as “new outfit, new Sansa!” that’s just a symbol, this has been building very gradually for a while as she learns to navigate the political game.
Brian: “What do you think about this Stewie?!”
Stewie: “Not good Brian, not good…”
Annara Snow,
Your suggestion for Cersei is great! Off to Pyke to marry a dead guy!
Or, perhaps he’s the one who starts bungy-jumping at The Iron Islands Holiday Camp, and Cersei does seem in need of a breakaway. Tommen could go too, to enter the cat-chase competition.
Wow! Great discussion.
One can only wonder whats going to happen in S6 when almost all the content will be new not just one major storyline 😉
Sansa > Winterfell seems highly likely to me. Wether she marries Ramsey (!!) or not i dont know.
Jaime’s girl,
People’s assertion that a certain incidental character from Dragons that might be more important in Winter is cut from the show was based on the idea that the actors know what is coming in Season 6. However, since then we’ve read several actors stressing that none of them know what is coming in Season 6. Don’t be surprised if said character does appear then. Historically, this series has had incidental characters graduate to supporting characters: and when the TV series includes those characters, it has not been until they graduated to supporting characters. As Winter is the earliest that this character will go from Incidental -> Supporting, Season 6 is the earliest that we might see him/her.
(Regardless of whether that character is in the show, the effect on the plot almost certainly will be: I suspect it will be central to the story for Winter and Season 6. We just might get the cat skinned a different way. Also, it will be in the book!)
And you hit on the other key point I’ve been stressing: when dynamic development involves making a character opposite of what he/she has been, then you have to devote some screen time to doing that. The audience has certain views of the main characters fixed in their heads by now, and it will take repeated reminders that the characters have changed. It will be like reminding your pampering aunt that you are not the person you were at 6 when you are 26: only slightly less socially awkward.