It’s been an eventful week here at Watchers on the Wall, with Con of Thrones (hello everyone we’ve met there so far!), and reopening our forums. Oh, and this here countdown! We’ve had a blast creating the list and talking about our favorite past moments. Everyone has such passionate opinions, and such a diverse range of favorites- even among the writers- it’s fascinating to see how so many Game of Thrones scenes strike deeply personal chords with fans. Thank you for following the countdown this week, and we hope you enjoy the finale- the top 20!
Without further ado, the top 20 Greatest Moments of Game of Thrones!
20. The Blackwater Lights Up with Wildfire. Episode 209, “Blackwater”
The moment when viewers first learned of the true potency of “pig shit.” Season 2 continues to be, IMHO, one of the most underrated seasons of Game of Thrones. Maybe my opinion stems from the pure enjoyment of watching Tyrion Lannister play the Game as he conducted business in King’s Landing. Or it could be because I wasn’t busy comparing it to the written verse of GRRM. Regardless, when a scene coerces a response of “holy shit,” makes you stand up, and commences in making one of your surround sound speakers plummet to the floor, you’ve just observed something exceptional. It was the culprit that made the moments leading up to the Cersei’s Sept annihilation in Season 6 so intense. Never forget Blackwater. Never forget Blackwater. – Oz of Thrones
19. Jon Gifts Arya with Needle. Episode 102, “The Kingsroad”
Oh innocent little Arya, back before tragedy struck. This was such a heartwarming scene, and it becomes much more significant in retrospect. As Arya was packing to leave Winterfell (with Nymeria adorably attempting to help), Jon arrived with a gift. That Jon had a sword made for her demonstrated how close they were, and that he truly understood and accepted Arya as she was – not a lady, but a warrior. Jon not only gave Arya a moment of happiness here, her gave her strength, identity, and a weapon that saved her life. He also left her with a sound piece of advice – “Stick them with the pointy end.” – Vanessa Cole
18. Oberyn Takes on the Mountain. Episode 408, “The Mountain and the Viper”
It goes without saying that this fight is beautifully shot and choreographed. But then there’s that moment when the Mountain is flat on his back, and you begin to think that everything is going the way of Team Tyrion…until it all dissolves into gloriously gory, eye-gouging nastiness. The camera pan from the screaming Ellaria to a smirking Cersei and finally to a resigned Tyrion is just perfect. And of course, without this fight, we would never have had the fabulous FrankenGregor! – Geoffery
17. Theon Takes Winterfell and Botches an Execution. Episode 206. “The Old Gods and the New”
This is a moment so iconic it has intentional staging and musical echoes during Robb’s execution of Rickard Karstark and Jon’s execution of Janos Slynt. Theon’s uncertainty, Dagmar’s manipulation, Maester Luwin’s failed intercession, Rodrik Cassel’s pride, the wailing of the Stark kids, the storm falling over Winterfell, the heart-rending music — it all comes together so beautifully, if tragically. In fact, though Theon burning the letter to warn Robb may have been the beginning of Theon’s interminable tragedy, the messy execution of Ser Rodrik was the point of no return. Or as Rodrik himself put it with his last words: “Gods help you, Theon Greyjoy. Now you are truly lost.” – Luka Nieto
16. Daenerys Sacks Astapor and Acquires the Unsullied. Episode 304, “And Now His Watch is Ended”
I never thought a single word would render such an intense wave of emotions but every time I hear the word (and epic score) “Dracarys” my blood boils as hot as dragon fire. In Dany’s iconic victory, she breaks the chains of every oppressed soul present, from the army of Unsullied to her ever-growing dragons to even herself as she commands the respect of all who witness this blaze of glory. By allowing herself to be disrespected and underestimated by the short-sighted Kraznys, she ensures a fiery triumph that is a wonder to behold. “Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor!” (A dragon is no slave!) the Breaker of Chains declares in her mother tongue to the horrified egomaniac’s dismay as she rains fire and blood upon the masters. This monumental moment is wholly spectacular as Emilia Clarke becomes so intertwined with her role as Daenerys that the two become almost indistinguishable. – Nate
15. The Night King Raises the Dead. Episode 508, “Hardhome”
Season 5 had its ups and downs and is considered by some as the worst overall installment in the Game of Thrones saga (although to be fair, always remember the words of my great grandfather who said of sex, “the worst I ever had was good”). When the unexpected events of Hardhome took place, the internet crashed yet again thanks to HBO. It was a reminder that you are watching Game of Thrones, and we can bend you over the kitchen table and shock you anytime we want. We already knew that the Night King could raise the dead. But when the wicked face of Richard Brake did it, it was one of the most chilling, intimidating scenes that you will most likely never forget for the rest of your days. – Oz of Thrones
14. Daenerys Finally Sets Sail For Westeros. Episode 610, “The Winds of Winter”
It was a moment fans had anxiously awaited for 5 years (or 20, for some book readers). After her defeat of the masters in Meereen, Daenerys set her sights on Westeros – the home she’d never known. It was a fitting end for a phenomenal season finale: Ramin Djawadi’s majestic score, Dany and crew at the head of a huge new fleet with Targaryen sails (along with her Greyjoy, Tyrell, and Martell allies), and the three dragons soaring over all. Whether you love her or hate her, Dany finally being on the move and ready to take back the throne was thrilling to see. I doubt Queen Cersei will feel the same. – Vanessa Cole
13. A Golden Crown for a King. Episode 106, “A Golden Crown”
This was the first of Game of Thrones’ satisfying villain deaths and, boy, did it set the bar high. Deliciously ironic, Viserys technically gets what he always wanted but in the worst way imaginable. This scene also marks a turning point for Daenerys when she throws out the plan to install Viserys as king, and starts concocting a plan of her own. – Petra
12. Brienne Fights the Hound, and Arya Leaves Him to Die. Episode 410, “The Children”
The unexpected duel between Sandor Clegane and Brienne of Tarth is a vicious, audacious affair that rivals the Mountain and the Viper’s infamous clash thanks to the absolute commitment of Rory McCann and Gwendoline Christie, stunning cinematography, and expert choreography involving steel, rocks, fists, and teeth. The pain of seeing these two warriors clash is magnified by their status as unconventional heroes and fan-favorites whose motives for battling one another are rooted in an altruistic desire to protect Arya Stark. But the emotional agony of the scene reaches another stratosphere when Brienne finally leaves the Hound bleeding at the foot of the mountain, and Arya confronts the man whose life she had sworn to end. McCann, one of the show’s most remarkable and steadfast actors, has never been better than he is here as an utterly broken man, pleading for release, and Maisie Williams matches his intensity even as she remains almost entirely silent. Amidst shattered bones and torn flesh, witnessing the brutality of mercy denied proves to be the most excruciating twist of all. – Jared Kozal
11. Sharing a Bath with Brienne, Jaime Opens Up About His Past. Episode 305, “Kissed by Fire”
This monologue is not only a perfect adaptation from A Storm of Swords, but it’s also one of Nikolaj Coster-Waldau’s finest acting feats in the show, if not the finest. As the scene begins, the Kingslayer is the brash man we have come to know, and Brienne wants nothing to do with him, let alone to be naked in a bath with him. That completely changes following the revelation of the Mad King’s genocidal plans for the capital and Jaime’s breaking down. Jaime is shown to be a broken man, and perhaps more of a hero than people know, while Brienne learns that oaths are not as black and white as she once believed, and she sees Jaime with new eyes. The scene marks a before and after in the character arcs of Jaime and Brienne, as well as in their relationship. – Luka Nieto
10. The Things I Do For Love. Episode 101, “Winter is Coming”
For me, this was the moment, the “oh shit” moment- the “I think this show might be about to take over my life” moment. I started watching the show a few years after it began airing, I’d never read the books and I was totally spoiler-free, so I had no idea how the first episode was about to end. While I’d enjoyed what I’d seen so far, this was the point that got me hooked. Not only is there the sheer shock value of a child pushed seemingly to his death out of a window, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau delivers that line in such a brilliantly casual way you’re suddenly all too aware of the how nasty the Lannisters are prepared to be. Oh, and the revelation that Jaime is bonking his sister, of course. It’s brutal and it’s perfect. – Geoffery
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9. For the Watch. Episode 510, “Mother’s Mercy”
The most heart-rending moment of the season 5 finale was the coldblooded murder of Jon Snow. To add insult to injury, we’re first deceived by the egregious Olly to believe one of the wildlings has information on the lost Benjen Stark. An uplifting score further torments us by thinking this will end well as Alliser Thorne leads Jon to his demise. All becomes clear when Jon pushes his way to the front of the crowd to a plank that reads “TRAITOR” and the mutiny begins. Kit Harington’s look of horror as the realization sinks in is truly breathtaking. He masters an intense wave of emotions in seconds and the result on screen is stunning. The stirring change in score and look of desperation in Kit’s eyes as he pleads with Olly is Jon’s most vulnerable moment yet. Our hearts break with each blade that pierces Jon as the Brothers profess it’s “For the Watch,” and then leave their Lord Commander’s corpse in the blood-soaked snow. Without a follow-up book to consult, fans Sullied and Unsullied alike were left stupefied by this gut-wrenching moment as we pan out leaving Jon Snow behind, the audience dumbfounded by the final black screen and bewildered that this actually could be his end… – Nate
8. Joffrey’s Death at the Purple Wedding. Episode 402, “The Lion and the Rose”
Finally, we came to the end of an era. The end of the short-lived, yet long-reaching reign of King Joffrey, who exited the world like the scared little boy he always was. Jack Gleeson played him with a deplorable smarm, despite his penchant for being a lovely, sweet person off screen. His final moments were nothing short of stellar, as he used Joffrey’s power to taunt his uncle one final time, before succumbing to poison’s grasp. We lost a great actor and a character everyone loved to hate (or hated to hate). What a weird feeling it was to feel empty inside at the death of a tyrant. – SirSquinty
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7. Cersei’s Walk of Atonement. Episode 510, “Mother’s Mercy”
What a way to close season 5! A lot of people were curious how this brutal and graphic scene taken directly from the books would be portrayed. I remember watching this with 11 other friends for a very awkward six-minute silence. If the goal of the scene was to make us feel emotionally uncomfortable and drained, it sure as hell did its job. We sat there feeling extremely unpleasant as the crowds threw shit and rocks at a naked, crying woman. Lena Headey OWNED this scene and the emotions that she poured into her portrayal. I remain forever upset that she has not won her long-deserved Emmy. The sequence’s images are burned into my and everyone’s brain. Don’t believe me? Just type “Shame” into Google and see how many parodies, GIFs, and memes surface. I’ll wait. – SirSquinty
6. Jon’s Mother Is Revealed In The Tower of Joy. Episode 610, “The Winds of Winter”
It was another scene long anticipated by fans – the moment R+L=J stopped being a theory and became a reality. After cruelly cutting the Tower of Joy scene short in episode 603 (curse you Three Eyed Raven!), we finally got to see what was inside and oh, was it worth the wait. Ned’s reunion with his dying sister Lyanna is both wonderful and heartbreaking, as she utters the words we’d been longing to hear: “Promise me, Ned.” The shot of him holding her newborn son, with the camera closing in on his face and then cutting to Jon Snow, was masterfully done. The entire scene – from the acting, to the music, to the cinematography – was beautiful, poignant, and so terribly sad. – Vanessa Cole
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5. Hodor Holds the Door. Episode 605, “The Door”
We knew his name, but we never knew his story, and few among us ever thought it could be so tragic. The kind-hearted stableboy once known as Wylis was a beloved fixture in the world of Ice and Fire, as Kristian Nairn thankfully remains in ours. But it’s always the innocent who suffer when the high lords play their games, and when Bran inherits his god-like power over time and space, the magnitude of the horror he inadvertently inflicts upon his oldest and most loyal friend almost beggars belief. As Wylis’s panicked shouts of “Hold the door!” slowly blended into a more painfully familiar refrain, we were left as devastated and helpless as Old Nan trying to save her kin, as Bran coming to terms with what he had done, and as Wylis himself before a desperate command from decades in his future burned all other words from his mind forever. The past was written, the ink was dry, and so it was ordained that the gentle, caring man now known as Hodor, who hated violence and feared things as natural and commonplace as thunder, would find himself standing alone against the most unnatural and extraordinary terror in this world. But when the moment that had defined his entire existence arrived, he still had to summon the bravery necessary to fulfill that terrible destiny, standing tall and strong as the wights ruthlessly tore at his flesh and his inevitable death drew ever closer. Wylis still had to choose to hold the door. And hold it he did, long after Bran and Meera had disappeared into the winter night. Sadly, our tears had no time to freeze before the circle was complete, and Wylis’s life – along with the episode – was plunged into darkness. – Jared Kozal
4. Cersei Blows Up The Sept During The Trial. Episode 610, “The Winds of Winter”
3. Daenerys Rises From the Ashes with Her Newborn Dragons. Episode 110, “Fire and Blood”
When we first meet Daenerys Targaryen in Game of Thrones, she’s an ethereal princess without a home or a friend, or anything to call her own. Throughout the course of season one, Dany suffers terribly under the crushing rule of her mad brother Viserys and then through a rough marriage to Khal Drogo. The princess clings to the tales of her family’s greatness and fire-breathing dragons but those days are long past- or so she thinks. As she discovers the fire within herself, learns to tame her new husband, and starts to create her own family, Daenerys steps out of the shadow of Viserys, the false dragon, and finally finds a piece of happiness for herself, as the khaleesi.
Then violence and blood magic strip away her new family, and there is nothing left for her but fire and blood. In the season one finale, Emilia Clarke shows us a Daenerys hollowed out by grief, and yet sure of herself as she prepares Drogo’s pyre, places the dragon eggs in it, and reassures Jorah. Terrifying her khalasar and the audience alike, Daenerys walks into the funeral pyre. There should have been nothing but ash and bone when the flames died down. And yet Daenerys emerges unscathed, Unburnt, and the music of dragons comes alive with the Ramin Djawadi’s “Finale.” It’s an incredible moment that still sends chills down my spine every time I rewatch it, with Drogon’s final scream landing as the screen fades to black. Unforgettable. – Sue the Fury
2. The death of Ned Stark. Episode 109, “Baelor”
There are events that occur during your life when you never forget where you were or what you were doing. For me, Baelor is pretty easy…I was sitting in my comfy spot on the couch next to Ozzette engaging in a cold beer and still wondering where this new HBO series was headed.
And then, the golden rule of television was broken…never kill off your lead, especially when the series shows promise of being renewed. But they did it anyway, which is a decision I respect to this day, regardless of what happened in the books. It was a huge risk, and it paid off because since then, Game of Thrones has been appointment television. Jon Arryn’s death set it in motion; Ned Stark’s death started a war. – Oz of Thrones
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The Red Wedding. Episode 309, “The Rains of Castamere”
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- And who are you, the proud lord said,
- that I must bow so low?
- Only a cat of a different coat,
- that’s all the truth I know.
- In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
- a lion still has claws,
- And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
- as long and sharp as yours.
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- And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
- that Lord of Castamere,
- But now the rains weep o’er his hall,
- with no one there to hear.
- Yes now the rains weep o’er his hall,
- and not a soul to hear.
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It’s the only number one that there could be, on this list. Because the Red Wedding isn’t just the most important moment in all of Game of Thrones; it’s one of the most significant moments in television history. The Red Wedding scene, which saw the horrifying murders of multiple major characters, was such an instant classic that it immediately became a cultural touchstone after “The Rains of Castamere” aired on June 2nd, 2013. Killing off main characters to shock your audience out of complacency and change the arc of your storyline trajectory became much more common after that, and the sudden death of a main character on any show is invariably referred to as a “Red Wedding” moment by its fans.
But pop culture importance aside, at its heart the Red Wedding is an emotionally devastating scene that hasn’t lost any of its power over the last four years. It was a tall order for the TV show to match the potency of A Storm of Swords’ legendary scene, but one the showrunners took on with gusto. Not only did Catelyn and Robb Stark and their loyal army meet their end at The Twins, but Robb’s pregnant wife Talisa joined them in death on Game of Thrones. The Red Wedding was brutal, and raw, and flawlessly paced: from the opening strains of “Rains” played by the Frey band, with Cat’s suspicious glance upward, to her discovery of Roose’s chainmail, to Talisa’s gruesome slaughter, to Robb’s final weak “Mother,” to Michelle Fairley leading the scene to its bitter, throat-slashed end. And of course, what would we do without Ramin Djawadi’s staggering “The Lannisters Send Their Regards” weaving in and out, carrying the bloody drama?
The Red Wedding was the end of an era for Game of Thrones, and some thought, the end of House Stark. But the wolves are coming again, and one by one by those responsible for the Red Wedding have fallen. Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, and Walder Frey are dead, but three of Catelyn Stark’s beloved children live. – Sue the Fury
“Yes now the rains weep o’er his hall,and not a soul to hear.”
Hodor!!!
Now lemme go read… 🙂
“For the first time in hundreds of years the night came alive with the music of dragons”
Wow. Quite enjoyed this ride. Thoroughly enjoyed the summaries. S1 dominated with 2 scenes in the top 3 and 5 scenes in the top 20. Cool, and expected.
Yay! Great moments. Put #1 back to about 5-6 and I love this list completely (yes I’m still pissed at Robb for fucking up in the first place). It’s strange how, as a book reader and show watcher who loves both for their similarities AND differences, you expect you’ll feel a certain way. I knew the outcome of Oberyn/Mountain, and yet I was completely gutted. I have Pedro to thank for that, I believe. Red Wedding…well it was awful to lose even my 2 least favourite Starks, but somehow I was less affected than I was when I read it. And I liked the ToJ fight scene over the ‘reveal’, but of course it’s the reveal that’s the more important.
#19 though……❤
Brienne and Houndie ❤
I still hate Olly!!!
This was super fun to read – thanks to all that worked on it. Of course everyone would order this list differently, but what amazing moments!
The only favorite scene of mine that didn’t make the list – Arya and the Hound arrive at the Vale only to be told that Lysa is dead. Arya’s laugh SLAYS me – I must have watched it a thousand times.
So many great moments and still some favorites that did not make the list.
Like Tyrion learning from his Father he is to wed Sansa, moments after telling his smiling sister “stop that, you are making me nervous”.
Or Jaquen placing a finger against his cheek letting Arya know one name down and two to go.
Ser Jorah stopping Viserys from stealing Dani’s eggs. “You swore loyalty to me, and there you stand.” And Jorah replies, “Here I stand”.
Khal Drogo ripping a man’s tongue out.
So many.
I hope season 7 has a few scenes close to as good as these 20 scenes!
I think more Catelyn and Robb Stark scenes could of been in the top 100.
Almost forgot. The old bear saying “When dead men and worse come hunting in the dark, does it matter who sits on the throne? I will not sit meekly and wait for the snows. The Night’s Watch will ride out in force against the white walkers and whatever else is out there…”
Gives me chills every time.
Some of Jamie and Brienne’s travel scenes could of made the list of 100.. When Brienne found the three girls hanging and she cut the girls down and then got justice for their killers…. one of them very similar to way Arya killed Polliver.
Brienne of Tarth’s first scene was sparring with Loras Tyrell and she made Loras yield.. By winning Brienne became one of Renley Baratheon’s Kingsguard and she met Catelyn Stark.
The scene when Brienne swore an oath to Catelyn Stark was much better than when Brienne swore an oath to Sansa
This was fun! I enjoyed reflecting on these great moments, and reading the reasoning behind their inclusion. This truly is one of (if not THE) most amazing shows of all time.
Not surprised the Red Wedding made #1, but as you said, which other scene could it be?
I’ll admit, Jon’s “King In The North” scene is definitely in my personal top 5, so I was kind of shocked it didn’t even make this list…
Some other scenes I really like that didn’t make the list:
Ned & Robert in the crypts of Winterfell (1×1)
“Or maybe he’ll bring me yours.” (1×10)
Theon’s conversation with Maester Luwin (2×10)
Catelyn’s reflective speech about Jon Snow (3×2)
“Could you bring back a man without a head?” (3×5)
Tyrion & Bronn’s goodbye (4×7)
Jaime’s conversation with Edmure (6×8)
Tyrion is made Hand of the Queen by Daenerys (6×10)
What a wonderful read, and thank you all for all the work you put into it!
I made a list under the last post of what I tentatively expected to see in the top 20 (well… I had 23), and 13 of them are here. For some inexplicable reason, when thinking about it I omitted Viper v. Mountain and the Walk of Atonement (!); in addition, my original list had Jon giving Needle to Arya, but I scratched that because so many other moments that had deeply affected me were clearly not going to be included.
As others have noted, there are so many wonderful (and foreshadowing) moments, there is no way to have included them all. Having said that, by far my greatest disappointment is that, to the best of my recollection, there were no moments anywhere on the list with either the late, great Maester Aemon or the late, great Jeor Mormont. They were both so absolutely instrumental to Jon’s growth as both an individual and as a leader, that the omission of even one of them—much less both—is quite confounding. In addition, among the potential “top 20” moments of mine that didn’t make it was the Stark children finding the direwolves. This strikes me as curious, given how firmly it establishes the Starks’ physical connection to their sigil and to a North that has quickly been slipping into legend… before those legends begin manifesting themselves once more.
Moving on: I do realize there will a hue and cry from a number of people about the fact that the birth of the dragons is in third, not first, place. While there is no other moment nearly as spine-tingling, I for one understand why this is; Daenerys’s immunity to heat (and perhaps fire) was well established in the first episode, and the moment she was gifted the dragon eggs both readers and viewers knew the eggs would somehow hatch. So that moment, great as it was, was wholly expected. On the other hand, the Red Wedding and the execution of Ned Stark were not; not only did they suddenly and fundamentally shift the narrative, they shocked both readers and viewers—most of whom, myself included, have become far too accustomed to predictable storytelling.
I will comment on individual moments in a separate post.
I really dig the differant insights into all of these scenes! My only wish would be to include Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion. On the other hand, I’m happy not to see her second to Ramsey. Cant wait to see how much fun everyone had this weekend in Nashville!!!
firstone,
I posted this a week or two ago, so I apologize if you’ve already seen it. This is one of the scenes I hoped would make it. It’s not important to the plot, but it provides such heartbreaking insight into what Ned’s “honorable lie” cost both Jon and Catelyn (and no, I’m not defending Catelyn’s actions): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_HWCIT8nY
Both of those were so good. Even if I wasn’t a huge Jorah/Iain and Jaqen/Tom fan, so much was in that one gesture/few words.
Wolfish,
Aemon’s death of natural causes was on the list. 🙂
Including Lyanna Mormont’s speech before Jon became the King of the North
Thank you for this fine effort. The first thing I looked for in the mornings. I have a few changes in position, but no time to spare on expressing them, except one:
Tyrion slapping the snot out of Joffery for 10 minutes. I watched that whole scene multiple times and it always just cracks me up.
Dany rising from the ashes with hatchling dragons is the most thrilling thing I have ever experienced on screen.
Thanks for the tense build-up to the Top Three! It was well worth the wait to find it in its righteous place along with Ned’s execution and the Red Wedding.
Excellent choices all around with great memories of important scenes. I enjoyed all of them—high praise to the WOW team!
BigMac,
I agree. I am shocked that Jon being made king in the north did not even crack the top 100. It would have been in my top 10. I think Cersei crowning herself also did not make the list? That was an awesome scene too, the music, the looks exchanged between Cersei and Jaime
On the other hand, I am ecstatic at #19 Jon gifting Needle to Arya.. I am so glad this scene made it so high.
Overall I mostly agreed with the rankings. It was a great read, thank you to all the guys who took the effort to make this list.
Wolfish,
I wish the scene where Maester Aemon reveals his identity to Jon would have been included somewhere. It was such a powerful scene “what is honor compared to a woman’s love, what is duty against the feel of a new born son in your arms?”
Hodors Bastard,
Actually, I didn’t. I did some statistics on this and in fact – Season 6 clearly dominated in terms of the most mentions overall (27, v. 16 S1 mentions). When you look at the average points per episode, S1 even has the lowest score of them all (44,6 (which is 713 (total score) divided by 16) and S3 has the highest (59,6 (which is 775 (total score) divided by 13).
Season 6 also had the two episodes in it that had the most mentions (605, 610, 5 each) and was the only season where every episode had at least 1 memorable moment)
Pigeon,
Excellent!
ghost of winterfell,
Agreed. I love Jon’s shock in that scene: “Aemon… Targaryen?”
I can’t wait for him to tell Daenerys about him.
(Adding to my first long post)
No Jorah or Sexy Jesus moments on the whole list (that I can recall, anyway)? What. Is up. With THAT???
Moving on…
19. Jon and Arya. Uuuggghhh, the feels. I love this scene so much. The people I’ve watched all of GoT with are really different from each other: my 26-year-old daughter (major fan, got me into it); one of my best friends, a 67-year-old painter who can’t get enough of NKW (major fan, planning July 16 party with me); and Saner Half, who just finished his first viewing (military veteran, thinks any fantasy that’s not LotR is “a ripoff of LotR,” prone to vex me). It always interests me to see how different people react to different scenes and aspects of the story. This is one all four of us love, which is saying something.
18. Oberyn. For me, Pedro Pascal’s beautiful performance in S4 just makes it all the more jarring and vexatious that D&D f****d the rest of Dorne so badly.
Move along, Wolfish. Finish the Dornish red.
17. Theon and Ser Rodrik. One of three scenes that, when rewatching, I leave the room for. I can’t even deal with the sounds. (The other two are Shireen and Walda & baby.)
12. Brienne v. Hound. I know it’s incredibly well choreographed and executed—and D&D needed to come up with a more Smash!Pow! way of ending the Wanderings Through the Riverlands—but I still hate this scene. Saner Half did too. I do realize we’re in a minority; maybe events in S7 will redeem it for us.
11. Jaime and Brienne. There’s nothing I can write here that hasn’t already been expounded on at length. I’ll just add my voice to the resounding chorus of people who believe this is one of NCW’s finest moments, if not the finest.
8. Joffrey’s death. “What a weird feeling it was to feel empty inside at the death of a tyrant.” You nailed it, SirSquinty! Saner Half’s first response was to holler, “Yeeeaaahhh!!! He needed killing!” But after a minute or two, as the credits rolled, he turned to me despondently and said, “Oh, damn. He’s gone.”
7. The Walk of Atonement. I was in D.C. for a summer internship when S5 aired, in a house with four other GoT fans (how lucky could a woman get?). Two of us had read the books and knew what was coming; the other three hadn’t. Their reactions were priceless. As SirSquinty writes of his own experience, “we watched for a very awkward six-minute silence.” And when it was over, we had an incredibly animated, passionate, and lengthy discussion about what women have—and have not been—punished for by society and by the law.
2. The beheading of Ned Stark. I knew nothing (no pun intended) about either GoT or ASoIaF before my daughter got me into it. She started watching the show at a friend’s when it very first aired, and I wound up reading all the books between S1 and S2. On her insistence, we signed up for a free HBO trial right before this episode aired. “Just watch one episode with me, Mom! Trust me! You’ll love it!” So, this was the first episode I ever watched.
Well, you can imagine the commotion in the house that night. “What the hell did you just do to me??? You just made me watch Boromir die ALL OVER AGAIN!” “I didn’t know! I swear! I had no idea!”
When Saner Half and I watched it recently (his first viewing) it was what finally got him hooked. He had reluctantly agreed to watch it, and is still somewhat stuck on the idea that LotR is the end-all and be-all of fantasy. Frikkin’ history professor, buried in ponderous tomes about the Civil War, what with not having read fiction in 30+ years… but don’t get me going on that.
I digress.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the man so shocked. He turned to me and sputtered, “They… can’t. They just can’t. Did that really just happen?”
He was still in shock the next night, when Ep10 opened with the sword dripping blood. “Shit. They really did do that.” “Yup. They really did, honey.” “Well, I’m in. Because I have no idea where this is going now.”
1. The Red Wedding. Saner Half, as soon as the doors shut in what passes for a great hall: “This is not going to end well.”
[Standing up all prim and bespectacled, handkerchief in hand, yelling and clapping in short vigorous bursts, barely heard over the rising thunder of mass approval]
Bravo, gentlemen! Sue, Petra, Vanessa, brava!
[Clapping intensifies to almost spasmodic levels, beads of sweat appear on enraptured face, breathing is belabored and shallow]
Encore! Bravo! Exquisite, ladies and gentlemen! Brava! Bravo! One for the ages! WOOT WOOT!
[With these words Mr Fixit slumps back into his seat, spent and delirious. Handkerchief, crumpled and wet, lies forgotten in his lap.]
…………….
Well done! My hearfelt thanks go to Sue and her (OUR!) team. It’s a joy to be a part of this community!
firstone,
Lyanna Mormont’s “You Refused the Call” was a personal favorite of mine, because I thought it was great writing. I noticed the scriptwriter used a device I’d read about called “The Rule of Three”, that Barack Obama, Martin L. King and others have used effectively in speeches. Something about the human brain makes it receptive to repitition of a theme three times; two, four, five etc doesn’t have the same effect.
Or so I read. I have no idea.
Ah its as expected I got the first three right but you guys know what my number one would have been…
The only disappointment here is Dracarys being that low ….it should have been in top 10 at least way ahead of winds of winter or golden crown…
I still remember how crazy internet went after Dracarys and it was followed right away by Red wedding….
Ned Stark’s death
Dany birthing dragons
Dracarys
Red wedding
Blackwater
These are the 5 most important and iconic scenes of season 1 to 3 which lead to Game of thrones where it is now in the world .
Then came Jon and cersei in last two seasons..
Wait where is the King in The North scene?!? It should be #1, the scene always gives me chills even after 1 year, and it didnt even make the list? Wtf
Great to read this compilation, and be reminded of so many high points even if the ranking is going to be questioned by everyone.
Mine would go something like
1 An Arya scene
2 Another Arya scene
3 One other Arya scene
4 Yet another Arya scene
5 You guessed it once more an Arya scene
… and so on all the way to
100 Haven’t run out of Arya scenes yet…
A few random observations from “101 Best Moments” Week:
• It’s kind of impressive that even after 101 scenes were checked off, it looks like many of us have personal favorites we thought would be in the top 20, but didn’t make the list at all.
• I had a bunch that I was preparing to list and defend. Some appeared in the final 20 (eg Jon gives Needle to Arya). Many did not. I’m going to try to finish that listing. I’d really be interested to see what everyone else’s favorites are.
• The comments generated by the Best 101 posts demonstrate that personal taste and prejudices go a long way in determining how receptive we are to a scene or “moment.”
I don’t enjoy “big” death scenes that much (unless weasels are getting whacked, e.g., Janos Slynt). That skews my perceptions, so something like The Red Wedding doesn’t even make my personal top 100, though I don’t deny its appeal to others.
• I’d be curious if there’s a consensus of the best “Undrafted Free Agents” available: the most popular choices that didn’t get “drafted” in the top 101. *
•. There’s no scientific method to quantify “good”, “better” or “best.”
I’m reminded of the ripping out of the introduction (“Understanding Poetry” or something) from the books in Dead Poets Society: You can’t plot “importance” and artistry coordinates on X and Y axes and come up with a measurement
…Now back to compiling my personal roster of undrafted free agents….
___________
*. Or should I call them the “Tom Bradys” (He didn’t get drafted by the New England Patriots until the fifth round of the NFL draft; over 100 players were selected ahead of him, and now he’s the one who’s got the multiple Super Bowl rings and MVP trophies.)
Guys, you nailed the top 20 as I knew you would. Enjoy Con of Thrones 🙂
Wolfish,
Ooh! I like all of your accounts of reactions to the scenes, i.e., by you and your co-watchers.
(Why am I up at 4:07 am ?)
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Arya + Jon
Arya + The Hound
Arya + Syrio
Arya + Tywin
Arya + Ned
Arya + Jaqen 1.0
Arya + Lady Crane
Arya + Gendry
Arya + Hot Pie
Arya + Nymeria
Arya + Needle
Arya + Sansa + Food Flung at Sansa
Arya + Meryn F*cking Trant
Arya + Polliver
Arya + Thoros
Arya + Melisandre
Tbh Ned’s execution is the catalyst for all the events that followed, so it deserves to be this high. Without it, the show and books would be lacking. It’s the reason people have such high expectations for good storytelling.
Glad the Red Wedding is also there. I mean duh. Michelle really deserved an Emmy nomination for her work. Surprised you all ranked the Needle scene so high, but delighted of course. 🙂
Surprised KITN scene didn’t make the top 100, but then again not really ◔_◔
Love that Theon scene. It’s so sad, but important. *cries*
Thanks for the list WotW. It must have taken a while to put together.
Ten Bears,
Ser Not Appearing in this Series likes your post
Ten Bears,
Undrafted free agents, you say? Well, I’ll list some of my favorites from all six seasons. Since I don’t intend my list to reach ungodly proportions, I’ll try and limit myself only to the scenes I absolutely and unconditionally adore, stuff that would without doubt be in my top list, which was left out of the “Official List”.
* Ned’s and Catelyn’s heartbreaking farewell in 1×02 The Kingsroad.
Ned: I don’t have a choice.
Catelyn: That’s what men always say when honor calls. That’s what you tell your families, tell yourselves… You do have a choice, and you’ve made it.
* Arya’s and Syrio’s first training class in 1×03 Lord Snow where dull sounds of wooden swords are slowly supplanted with clashing of metal.
* Ned sits on the Iron Throne and sentences the Mountain to death in 1×06 A Golden Crown.
In the name of Robert of the House Baratheon, the first of his name, the King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, I charge you to bring the King’s justice to false knight Gregor Clegane. I denounce him and attaint him, I strip him of all ranks and titles, of all lands and holdings, and sentence him to die. (…) Inform Tywin Lannister that he has been summoned to court to answer for the crimes of his bannermen. He will arrive within the fortnight or be branded an enemy of the Crown and a traitor to the Realm.
* Lord Tywin skins a stag while holding a lesson to a visibly shaken Jaime in 1×07 You Win or You Die.
* Maester Aemon reveals his true identity to Jon Snow in 1×09 Baelor
What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms or a brother’s smile? (…) The gods were cruel when they saw fit to test my vows (…) I will not tell you to stay or go. You must make that choice yourself and live with it for the rest of your days… as I have.
That’s it for Season 1. Whew. Other seasons to follow!
Ok ok, now I realize why Arya’s needle scene earlier wasn’t higher. Yes, that one is just fine
However as much as I loved Viserys getting his due, I would not have put that one so high. Otherwise, I pretty much agree with what you al did here!
Pigeon,
Oh I so agree with you, on both accounts. Thats not to say the RW didn’t put a knot in my stomach, but the book scene was so shocking I had to read it through about 3 times till I realized my eyes were not deceiving me. I threw the book across the room and didn’t pick it back up for about a week, when, intrigued by what would happen next, started reading again and the rest is history.
BigMac,
Oh yes, that scene broke my heart….
Wolfish,
I agree with you, but since the show really was not going that direction, I understand why it wasn’t chosen. That being said, I really wish the show had done more with the direwolves. Those scenes in the books were among my favorite.
Mr Fixit,
Couldn’t have said it better myself! What a work of love this was, and what fun it was for you to share it with us!
So glad that Bran being pushed out the window was included, the scene that really started it all, as well as Hodor. Of course Hodor
Flayed Potatoes,
I agree, but I would have picked one of a dozen better Theon moments:
– when he shares a look with sansa, gripping her hand, nodding and then jumping.
-When he is standing before the Iron army in Moat Caitlin, trying to be Theon again
– speaking for his sister at the kingsmott
Oh, and I don’t remember, was LF pushing Lysa through the moon door, after she revealed how involved he was with the whole story, not included?
And when Rodrik turns to the children and says “Hush, I go to meet your father now’ totally broke my heart.
I like the Free Agent idea – but before I do, could someone post a summary list of all 101 scenes? This way I wont make mistakes including scenes that were already there! It would save me lots of time going back and forth between posts….many thanks!
Red Wedding was not the shows greatest moment!! What??
This is a perfect ranking
#18 remains for me the highlight of the show series so far. Should be higher.
#3 is about where it should be – that was the scene that made up my mind that I had to read the books.
#’s 12 and 13 were fantastic scenes.
The Great Undrafted List continues with Season 2.
× Arya and Tywin in 2×05 and 2×06 aka “The Death Stare” scene Anyone can be killed and in the following episode when Tywin asks Arya what killed her father and she responds: Loyalty. Together with the already listed scene from 2×07 on dragons and Aegon’s sisters, they comprise the Phenomenal Harrenhal Trifecta of 2012.
× Shae visits injured Tyrion in the aftermath of the Battle of the Blackwater Bay in 2×10 Valar Morghulis
Tyrion: I do belong here. These bad people are what I’m good at. Outtalking them, outthinking them… it’s what I am. And I like it. I like it more than anything I’ve ever done… Are you going to leave?
Shae: You have a shit memory. I am yours and you are mine.
Tyrion — and the audience with him — breaks into tears…
Huh, not much in Season 2 that wasn’t already covered, it seems.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
To me, Ned’s beheading is so horrific because Arya is there. She’s the one being traumatized. Maisie Williams’s look of anguish as Yoren presses her head to his chest makes that whole sequence painful for me to watch. And it’s why Ned’s death is such an indelible moment.
Come think of it, the Hound is heading north, same as Brienne. Those two can easily meet. Actually they should meet. And after that glorious fight, that will be awkward indeed.
Wow, I’m glad Jon and Arya’s moment got included! 😀
Blackwater is my favorite Game of Thrones episode, in my favorite season (season 02), based on my favorite ASOIAF book (A Clash of Kings).
ITA and the show did the right thing by following the book in presenting virtually all of the sequence from Arya’s POV.
It’s really THE iconic moment from Season 1 and the book GoT that tells you this story is not going to follow a typical fantasy heroic quest, and it could have been handled badly if they hadn’t respected the way GRRM unveiled it.
Wolfish,
Maestre aemons death was included. I would have liked to see the mutiny at crasters also.
A truly wonderful, introverted scene; and one that so often seems to get completely overlooked for some reason when appreciating Maisie’s depiction of Arya and talents in favour of “badass Arya” scenes.
Mr Fixit,
I had done a list of the best 5 Tyrion scenes, which took a while, and then even longer to single out one as the “best” and try to justify it to myself.
When all the vetting and culling was done, some “big” moments like Tyrion’s trial (“I’m guilty of being a dwarf”) didn’t even make the cut because as dramatic as they were, I wouldn’t say I could watch them over and over again. In addition, in my view a “great” Tyrion scene showcases the character’s intelligence and wit, more than the “drama” of the situation.
I was actually surprised when this little exercise of mine concluded when I saw which Tyrion scene came out on top. …
[to be cont.]
Appreciate the “Top 100” analysis. I like it. S6 was incredible. However, my simple non-weighted tabulation was directed only to the Top 3 and Top 20 (this article), for which S1 had the advantage. Perhaps I should have been more clear.
I agree that Jon’s “KitN” scene should be higher but how would you compare it with the original Robb’s “KitN” scene (#45)?
I think Sue&Co condensed similar scenes into one for purposes of leaving space for other entries to make it. Though this one was so monumental and represents catharsis we were waiting for since the Red Wedding that perhaps it should have made the cut on its own. I will be sure to include it when my Undrafted List reaches Season 6.
KUdos for putting this together. Hard to argue with any of the top 20. I completely agree with the Red Wedding as #1. I had a love / hate relationship with the scene. Must have watched it half a dozen times and it still gives me chills and makes me cringe. The worst is when Robb’s pregnant wife gets stabbed in the stomach.
Loved this final list. I will not quibble with the choices or their order on the list. Each and every one of these scenes was brilliantly executed and, in most cases, heartbreaking. I still have not quite come to terms with Oberyn’s death, even though I knew it was coming. Ahh, Pedro…you are missed.
Some of the quotes from these scenes are unforgettable, like Ser Rodrik’s final line to Bran: “Hush now, child. I’m off to see your father.”
And kudos to Greatjon for getting in a mention of Don Fanucci.
Hodors Bastard,
I think Jon’s scene was much more poignant than Robb’s, even though I loved the original KitN scene as well. Of course I am biased towards Jon, but when you consider all that the Starks went through, suffered, to get to this point, it makes his appointment all the more powerful, especially given that he had to actually fight for the North before he was chosen as king. And frankly, everyone I have talked to, all the reactions I have seen online, have said the same.
Besides, this scene was very important for Sansa and Littlefinger as well. Look at all the discussion that the look between them generated!
This was the one omission that surprised me the most.
Wait.. Where is the show’s opening scene??? How is that not top ten?
Don’f forget Sansa was right there 20 feet away from Ned as he got beheaded and Sansa was going hysterical!!!!!!
One top 40 scene that didn’t get included is right in the middle of Tyrion’s trial, during a break in the trial Jamie goes into a room with Tywin and tells Tywin he will go to Casterly Rock and rule in Tywin’s steed if Tyrion is not sentenced to die. This scene goes back to a scene in the 1st episode of season 4 “Two Swords” when Jamie said no to Tywin’s request. Tywin’s says one word “Done” like it’s what Tywin wanted from the beginning. The next scene shows Shae walking into the chamber as the trial continues….. and rest is history…
I wonder did Bronn detray Tyrion? Was Bronn working with Cersei and Tywin? Did Cersei and Tywin pay Bronn money to bring Shae to them?
I agree with the ‘poignancy’ and weight of the scene and I find comparing the two fascinating, especially since the latter KitN scene was not recognized here or was subsumed into another scene. Two things I loved about the 1st KitN scene:
1) It re-established the KitN pride that had been gone for 300 years
2) It was loaded with hypocrisy. Like Julius Caesar or the biblical JC, how many would eventually betray him? What seemed like celebratory event was loaded with pretense.
But the speeches by Mormont, Manderly and Glover were amazing in Jon’s KitN; they were realizing what they had accomplished and what was to come. Brilliant. But, like the first KitN, do the great words conceal more betrayal within the ranks?
Hodors Bastard,
Maybe.We know history repeats itself but in a scripted tv show that would be way too repetitive for my taste.What would be the point especially at the juncture we are now?
Thanks for the countdown, it was a fun read.
Yeah…it is getting a bit late in the game, isn’t it?
I only mention it because of the possible upcoming conflict between Sansa and the reaction of the northern lords once they discover their bastard KitN is half Targ! Maybe that won’t matter as the dead arrive and proliferate, but who knows? Any thoughts?
Hodors Bastard,
I agree with Jenny, it would be too repetitive. Robb was betrayed by his men, Jon has been betrayed by his men once already, any more betrayals will seem repetitive. Besides at this point, I think the focus will shift more towards the white walkers, so there may not be much time for such side plots. I would actually like to see Jon learn from his past betrayal and grow rather than get betrayed once again lol.
Every scene in the season 6 finale episode “The Winds of Winter” could have been included in the top 20 best scenes of all time or at the least the best 100 scenes…
Hodors Bastard,
I think that when everybody finds out that Jon is a Targ it could go in a number of ways.I would suppose the imminent ice apocalypse will be more important.I don’t think they would focus on the betrayal of Jon by some glorified extras which the northmen are in the show.I guess they would focus on the effects the news has on Jon,Dany and his family and the larger magical picture.But then again who knows.
There were definitely moments I agreed with, although not #1. Dany and the dragon reveal (your #3) would have been my #1. The ‘Dracarys’ scene would have been in my top 10 for sure, I’m glad it was included, but it would have been way higher for me. Man, I love that moment.
Of what was not included, I am surprised that there weren’t more Davos scenes overall simply because Liam Cunningham makes every moment gold, especially the one where he confronted Melisandre about Shirreen. That one is definitely in my top 101.
I also would have included all three of the Arya and Tywin scenes as well as a couple of the Arya and Gendry scenes. The first being where she reveals who she is to him. I know it seems a small scene, but it’s such a wonderful one. It has humor, heart, continues to set up the Gendry story, really begins building the relationship between the two and is just all around a wonderful scene. I also would include their scene when she tells him that he would be her family, and he tells her that, no, she would be his lady. Maisie Williams’ acting in that scene is heartbreaking.
The first meeting between Sansa and Lady Tyrell would also have made my list. Sansa is being the dutiful girl, loyal to her king before the Queen of Thorns convinces her to be honest enough to tell some truths about Joffrey.
I also would have separated the Brienne/Hound fight scene, not included it and just gone with the Hound/Arya no mercy scene. That was one of the finest duets of acting I’ve ever seen and stood on its own in its sheer power.
Still, it’s a hard thing to do, narrowing it down. Hah, with the forums up now, a bunch of us can take a stab at our abbreviated lists.
Top 20! Wow – lots of fantastic moments on here. Again, I’ll try to be brief but am likely to fail spectacularly.
20) Blackwater ablaze; I’m not sure I would have ranked the scene so highly, though it is visually spectacular. Blackwater scenes I preferred include the Hound’s Fuck the kingsguard. Fuck the city. Fuck the king – also his scene with Sansa and Tyrion’s speech to rally the troops. That said, it is visually spectacular and gave us an insight into the damage wildfire can do, which came in useful in 610.
19) Needle; Needle was Jon Snow’s smile. I wish this was higher, I really do. This moment – so early on – is painfully sad in retrospect given what happened after, and given we still haven’t seen the two of them reunite. When Arya leaves the Hound and finds a ship in 410, she only remembers the Braavosi coin when the captain refuses to take her to the Wall. Jon is the person she wants to go to. He is her safe haven and protector, and he gives her Needle which helps her learn to protect herself. Arya is the only one who seems to receive a gift when Jon leaves Winterfell and it is chosen with care and affection. The hug they share is one of a close and unconditional love – and regardless of what she has done, Jon would still accept her for who she is in a heartbeat. When Robb and Jon part later in the same episode, the affection between them is unspoken – as boys trying to be men they don’t let mushy stuff into their farewell – but with Arya, Jon doesn’t have to worry about that and he can be truly honest about how he feels. I’m going to miss you. I want these two to reunite as soon as possible!
18) Oberyn & the Mountain; this fight is proof that you haven’t won until you’ve won. Oberyn’s thirst for vengeance for his sister and his desire to force the Mountain to confess to the rape and murder of his sister and the murder of her children is what loses him this fight. He could have finished the Mountain off when he was on his back, but Oberyn wants to see him suffer as much as possible. You can’t die yet. And it is this desire for vengeance that kills him. You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children. The Mountain does confess – just before he squishes Oberyn’s head like a grapefruit and we lose one of the best characters the show ever had, along with one of the best actors the show ever had.
17) Theon’s execution; I love all three execution scenes for Theon, Jon and Robb mirroring the one from 101 when Ned beheads Will the Ranger. This one reflects how far Theon has gone from the person we met in Winterfell in 101, and he is as lost as Rodrik tells him he is. It is a botched and bloody execution and again that reflects the sense of Theon’s lost identity. Rodrik’s attempts to calm Bran as he prepares for death, telling him he’ll see Ned, are all the more poignant having seen the Bran-vision in 602 and realizing how long Rodrik had served the Starks for.
16) Dracarys; this scene had been coming, in a way, since 110 when we first saw the baby dragons and wondered what they could be capable of. A dragon is not a slave. Daenerys cannot be bought or sold and neither can her children. It is a powerful demonstration of what the lords of Westeros have coming for them should they stand in her way.
15) The Night King; Dracarys is a demonstration of the power of Daenerys and her dragons and this scene is a demonstration of the power of the Night King. Jon may be getting rowed out to a boat to return south of the Wall to Castle Black but, as Davos warns Lyanna Mormont in 607, the dead are coming. The look between Jon and the Night King sets us the wars to come – two leaders of two opposing armies. And the Night King only has to lift his hands to raise not only the dead, but his numbers; Jon can only lose men in battle, while the Night King will gain them. Hardhome as a whole was a spectacular episode and the entire massacre beautifully shot.
14) Daenerys setting sail; one word to sum up this scene – FINALLY! Daenerys tells Viserys in 101 that she wants to go home and he replies that they need an army. Daenerys has her army and she is heading home – though, thankfully – with her dragons rather than her brother. The score is beautiful, and the sight of the fleet and the sails and the occupants of the ships reminds us of the alliance Daenerys is already building up. There are Greyjoy, Martell and Tyrell sails alongside those of House Targaryen, and we see Theon and Yara, the Unsullied, the Dothraki and Daenerys herself, flanked by Tyrion, Varys and Missandei – three advisors who represent the diversity in her team as a whole.
13) A Golden Crown; at just about every convention, the actors are asked which character they would bring back. Personally, while I’m sure his death was an inevitability more than anything else, I would bring back Viserys – and it is mainly due to the fact that I loved Harry Lloyd’s performance (though it would be interesting to see Viserys react to the dragons). By this point in season one, we have repeatedly seen Daenerys try to make excuses for her brother and sticking by him loyally in spite of the way he treated her. But when he threatens Rhaego, all bets are off and Daenerys no longer stands between Viserys and the Dothraki. Viserys’s arc is ultimately a tragic one – lost in the wilderness, and unlike Daenerys he was old enough to remember what it was like to live in the Red Keep and be treated with the deference due to a member of the royal family. Also, visually, this was one of the cooler deaths.
12) Brienne & the Hound; if we were just considering fights, I would have put this below the one between the Mountain and Oberyn. But taking into account Arya leaving the Hound, I can see why this made it so high on this list. His attempts to get her to give him mercy are gut-wrenching, and I can’t wait to see what happens should they meet again. The fight element in this scene is excellently choreographed and acted and the fighting styles demonstrated very much in character. Arya leaving the Hound behind is the end of a partnership I loved watching, and I still miss the two of them having scenes together.
11) My name is Jaime; this scene is just amazing. I’ve said it on previous threads, but I’ll say it again – I could watch scenes with these two all day long. We’d already seen him act to prevent Locke’s planned rape of Brienne (the karmic thanks for which was the loss of his sword hand), but it is this scene that finally tips Jaime into the grey category. He has done awful things – see #10 for details – but as he recounts the sack of King’s Landing and tells her why he killed the Mad King, we feel a lot more positively about Jaime. This is the scene in which they go from being the Kingslayer and the Wench to being Jaime and Brienne.
10) Bran & Jaime; the scene that probably got most of the people unsure about this new show hooked on it. Jaime, who doesn’t seem to be a monster for the earlier part of the episode for all the tensions there are between the Lannister and the Starks, shows us what he is willing to do for love. Is shoving a child from a window the thing Meatloaf wouldn’t do for love? Well, Jaime would do it. Who would have thought the first time they watched this scene that a couple of seasons later, Jaime would be considered one of their favorite characters?
9) For the Watch; as was the case with Ned and Robb’s deaths, we are given false hope. Olly – who we have come to trust as much as Jon did – comes to Jon with news of Uncle Benjen, long feared dead. This scene freaked out the book readers among us as book five ended for Jon the same way as season five did, with his brothers knifing him. The betrayal and murder of Jon Snow is beautifully played and the horror Kit displays as Jon is heart-breaking. The script for this episode says in the scene in which Sam leaves, that Jon is now truly alone. As Maester Aemon warned us earlier on in season five, a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing. Maester Aemon himself stands up for Jon in 401 following his return to Castle Black; would the officers have taken this action had the maester still been there? We will never know. By the time this episode takes place, Jon has chosen the Watch and duty over something or someone he wants three times – he does it in season one when he returns to Castle Black instead of continuing south to help Robb in his war and to aid him in avenging Ned’s death; he does it in season three when he leaves Ygritte to return to Castle Black in spite of his love for her; he does it in season five when he turns down Stannis’s offer of Winterfell and the Stark name (the first thing, he tells Sam, he ever remembers wanting) to remain at Castle Black. The stabbing – for actions Jon has taken to fulfil his vows and be the shield that guards the realms of men – is difficult to watch. And it is little wonder that when he returns, one of the first things Jon does is take the get-out clause in his vows. It shall not end until my death.
8) Purple Wedding; this show has the power to make you do things you never thought you would – in this case, cheering the death of a child (and we all did it again two seasons later when Jon executed Olly). For all that he was a monster, Joffrey is still a child and we are reminded of that as he takes his last gasping breaths looking at his mother with pure fear in his eyes.
7) Walk of Shame; a scene that reflects the misogyny of the world in which the show is set, and demonstrates the love that Cersei has for her children. Her focus on the Red Keep, where her son is waiting for her, is what gets Cersei through this. Lena was amazing in this scene – truthfully, she’s amazing as Cersei in every scene she’s in – and as much as we cheered Cersei getting her comeuppance when she was thrown into a cell after gloating to Margaery, we truly feel for her in this moment. It is uncomfortable to watch, but that’s part of the point.
6) Tower of Joy; seven episodes on from the external fight sequence, we finally got to see inside the Tower of Joy! The mystery of Jon Snow’s parentage is one that is introduced within the first fifteen minutes of episode 101 and it took until 610 for us to get the answer. This was a beautifully crafted scene, and although we’re always aware of Bran watching it focuses very much on Ned and Lyanna. I do love the two cutaways to Bran’s reaction – the first when he realizes that Ned never spoke of her because of how painful it was and the second when he sees the child in his father’s arms and realizes who that child is. But, as I said, this scene is very much about Ned and Lyanna. The first, external sequence made it clear that Ned wanted his sister back, and he finally finds her, but she is dying – her confession that she isn’t brave and his assertion that she is brings us back to Ned’s we can only be brave when we’re afraid mantra. When Lyanna says those three words, Promise me, Ned, it is simply heartbreaking. Three little words that haunted her brother for the rest of his life. So much of season one Ned is formed by the glimpses we see of him as a younger man in season six – and the scene from 102 when Jon and Ned say farewell is more poignant after seeing this one in 610. The music in this scene is beautiful and, although I am by no means any sort of expert, it reminds me of both Goodbye Brother and My Watch is Ended (the piece playing in 603 when Jon announces his retirement). I love the way the music is used to link in to the next scene and our shot of Jon, the child that Ned spent the rest of his life trying to protect for his sister. Aisling Franciosi may only have been given around three minutes of screen time – if that – but her portrayal of Lyanna is haunting and sad. Sorry – someone is peeling onions again. Sidebar: young baby Jon (or whatever name Lyanna gave him) was amazingly well cast. Not sure I’ve ever seen such a brooding baby before.
5) Hold the Door; I have to admit that I didn’t think that much of Hodor talking properly in 602 because I was too busy squealing over the fact that I’d finally seen Lyanna Stark on screen. This sequence has echoes of the horror of Hardhome and is a further demonstration by the Night King of the power he wields. It is heartbreaking and stunningly, stunningly shot, from Leaf’s sacrifice to the death of Summer – the direwolf going out the way he should, protecting his Stark. But the most heartbreaking part comes at the end as visually we move between Hodor holding the door and young Wylis having a fit within the walls of Winterfell and ultimately uttering the word that would become his name. And the look on Bran’s face as he realizes that the one person who has come all the way from Winterfell with him, who has protected him and served him loyally, is dying because of something he did. He created Hodor.
4) Sept explosion; it says a lot about a piece of music when a score from a television show (even Thrones) winds up topping the Spotify chart. 610, in my personal opinion, is the best episode thus far and this scene is the episode in miniature – the acting, the writing, the costumes, the music, the production design……everything is on point. To be critical of it, you realize pretty quickly that you’re nitpicking. Cersei ends season five broken by the Walk of Shame; she ends season six in the most powerful position she’s ever been in. There was foreshadowing of this moment throughout season six, and when it finally came it was well worth the wait.
3) Daenerys and the dragons; Dany’s season one arc is definitely my favorite of hers. Magic aside, this scene is so powerful because we got to see the timid little girl bullied by Viserys and sold into marriage with a stranger by the one person she is meant to trust in 101. We watch her grow from that little girl to a strong and powerful young woman as she begins to stand up for herself and adapt to the world she finds herself in. When she rises from the ashes with three baby dragons, Jorah, Rakharo and the rest are not the only ones who realize Daenerys is someone destined for greatness.
2) Ned’s beheading; it is a huge risk for any show or book series to kill off the character they have built up as central to the plot and in this case it completely pays off. The execution of Ned Stark is the catalyst for so much of the events that follow, and has the same effect on the arcs of the six members of the younger generation of Starks as that of Drogo has on Dany’s; so much of the seasons that follow are about killing the boy/girl and letting the man/woman be born. As with the Red Wedding, we are given a sort of false hope. 309 starts off with Robb planning a new strategy and 108 ends with Joffrey promising mercy if Ned confesses his treason. But then, we are truly as naive as Ned and Sansa – because when Ned does confess we think he’ll soon be heading North to see Jon and possibly Benjen (if he ever returns). But, no. I love to contrast this scene with the one between Jon and Maester Aemon discussing whether Ned would choose love or honor. This sequence in 109 proves long before the Tower of Joy that Ned chooses love. He chooses family. On his way to the front of the crowd, he shouts to Yoren in the hope that Arya will have protection. Before confessing his treason, he looks to Sansa for support. As Ilyn Payne readies his sword, Ned looks out into the crowd; he can’t help where Sansa is, but he doesn’t want Arya to have to watch him die.
1) Red Wedding; while I think we all have our own personal favorite moments, this one is arguably iconic beyond Thrones. The only other moment I would consider placing in this slot is the one at #2. For those of us who had read the books before watching the episode, we knew what was coming but sort of hoped something might magically change. The episode starting with Robb plotting a new strategy to take Casterly Rock from the Lannisters give false hope that Robb’s campaign was about to take off on a new and positive road. Everything about this last scene from the haunting Rains of Castamere to the anguished screeches of Catelyn as she watches her eldest (and she believes last living) son killed before her is simultaneously mesmerizing and has you hiding behind a cushion, desperate to look away. Richard Madden and Oona Chaplin were both at their best in this episode, and it is heartbreaking to watch Robb cradling the lifeless body of his pregnant wife, but Michelle Fairley completely owned this scene and with it this episode. Why she wasn’t nominated for more awards on the back of this episode/season is beyond me. D&D were desperate to get the show to this point, and for me it’s one of the main reasons the show has become so successful now. A fitting winner, but one moment I think most of us would prefer never happened.
[Apologies for the run-on comment above; damn editor failed]
Agreed…the big picture is front and center, but with LF still in the periphery, my mind wonders. Perhaps LF’s continued attempts to manipulate Sansa will be a grisly side story that won’t affect the north…but maybe he is still an annoying thorn in everyone’s side. It was not unanimously hip-hip-hooray for Jon during his KitN scene.
A big thank you to all who worked on this, I really enjoyed the choices and the summaries! Enjoyed the comments as well! This has inspired me to try to cram in a re-watch because there is just so much great material in this series. Looking forward to Season 7 and all the posts and comments to come.
You all in Nashville, Con of Thrones, have a great time!
firstone,
Hee, that is true!
Red Nightmare,
The opening scene of the pilot was #101 on this list – it started off the countdown. Thematically appropriate, although if you believe it should be higher, you can certainly make a strong case!
The WoTW team has done a good job compiling this list and the results (certainly those scenes that made it into the top 10) is no surprise.
Speaking as an ‘Unsullied’, it was pretty obvious that scenes that came as a surprise/shock to the viewers would rank highly. Starting at #10 with Bran getting pushed from the window and at #1 with the Red Wedding. At the time when I first saw those episodes, I never saw those events coming. The same as when Ned Stark got beheaded and Jon Snow stabbed as a traitor.
Other epic moments: Dany with her baby dragons, the bath house scene with Jamie opening up to Brienne, the deaths of Joffrey and Hodor, Cersei’s ‘Walk of Shame’ , the destruction of the Sept of Baelor and the revelation of R+L=J come as no surprise and are deservedly placed in the top 10 positions.
My only bone of contention (sorry Luka !) was that at #17, I would have chosen (from S2e10) – Theon’s speech to his men and with Maester Luwen at Winterfell (with that horn blowing) rather than when he botched the execution of Ser Rodrik Cassel – Just my preference 😉
I have to admit, this scene was one of those I was shocked didn’t make the list. It is one of the most momentous Theon scenes, and Alfie’s performance is spot on.
Went back through some posts and found the Lysa moondoor scene way back in #85. This is one of my few quibbles ; if the top ten were scenes that were turning points in the show, this certainly had to be, as we learn from Lysa that LF was indeed the cause of everything that happened from Season 1.1 The story started with him, and would not be if not for that. this was a very important admission that the viewers needed to hear, and I suspect will be vital this season. Just sayin. Anyway I’ll no doubt include it in my top ten free agent list 🙂 (thanks TB for the idea!)
Tis’ true. IIRC, the scene was in an Arya chapter, so her POV makes more sense. But since Sansa fainted away, of necessity the aftermath em>couldn’t include her. It irrevocably changed both girls’ lives, but Sansa had also to realise she’d been duped into colluding with that monster and his witch mother and was still in their clutches. Had Arya been captured, doubtless within a fortnight Joffrey would have made a ‘princes in the Tower’ move and Arya would have been ‘disappeared’. She spent most of the next four years without a roof over her head or steady meals, but she learned much from rough-but-generally-protective mentors.
Alba Stark,
Yes, very surprising that scene didn’t make it into the list 🙁
Alfie Allen should have got an Emmy for that! The look on face when the horn sounded yet again during his talk with Maester Luwen was classic 😀
Very surprised that Lyanna Mormont’s “But you refused the call” King in the North speech didn’t make the Top 100!
Checking, checking, 1, 2, 3…
Just wanna check if I can post at all. I tried to post my Season 3 Undrafted Scenes several times and it can’t get through. Woe is me.
he Great Continuation Post on the Left Out Greatest Scenes. Third Season Edition.
* Tyrion asks Tywin for Casterly Rock in 3×01 Valar Dohaeris
Tywin: I will let myself be consumed by maggots before mocking the family name and making you heir to Casterly Rock.
Tyrion: Why?
Tywin: Why?! You ask that? You who killed your mother to come into the world?
You are an ill-made spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. (…)
To teach me humility, gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father’s sigil and his father’s before him. But neither gods nor men will compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse.
* Theon’s confession to his mysterious savior in 3×04 And Now His Watch Is Ended.
Theon: I paid the iron price for Winterfell. I murdered those boys.
Ramsay: Stark boys?
Theon: Never found them. Some poor orphans living with a farmer. I let Dagmer slit their throats and I let him burn the bodies so I could keep Winterfell. Make my father proud.
Ramsay: Maybe it’s not too late.
Theon: It is. My real father lost his head in King’s Landing. I made a choice and I chose wrong.
* Arya asks Thoros if he can bring back her father in 3×05 Kissed by Fire
Arya: Could you bring back a man without a head? Not six times, just once.
Thoros: I don’t think it works that way, child.
Beric: He was a good man, Ned Stark. He’s at rest now, somewhere. I would never wish my life upon him.
Arya: I would. You’re alive.
(These last two hit me so damn hard every single time.)
* Sansa’s and Tyrion’s wedding in 3×08 Second Sons
I notice neither of two Sansa’s wedding made the list, something I’m a bit sad about. I’ll quote myself from last year’s Memory Lane thread.
The wedding was gloriously staged and shot by Michelle MacLaren: rich and opulent, bathed in warm golden light, with the saddest and most beautiful girl in King’s Landing at its center. We are treated to a tonal shift for the wedding feast in what is pure comedic gold. The star of the evening is, of course, drunk Tyrion whose deification into the god of tits and wine is as hilarious as it is indicative of his growing disgust with the corruption, deceit, and veiled brutality of King’s Landing’s politics. His thoughts on the importance of honesty in a relationship (where vomiting is concerned) should be included in a book of wise quotes and saved for posterity.
Sorry guys, I’d really like to continue my Undrafted Scenes series, but the damn thing eats my post every time as “spam”. I don’t know if it’s the length ( I tried shortening the posts), formating ( I tried reducing the number of paragraphs, italics, and such). Alas, nothing.
Ten Bears,
Thank you!!!
I’m naturally a swing-shift person, so left to my own devices I go to bed at 3 a.m. and get up between 9 and 10. I get my REM sleep between 6 and 9. Alas, I’ll soon be starting an 8 to 5 job, and dreaming only on the weekends…
Wait wait. 8 to 5, not 9 to 5? What kind of slavedriving 45-hour week is that? 😉
Mr Fixit:
Do you think Jon will remember these words and realize that Aemon might have known about Jon’s parentage? Did he know? (I’m sure it’s been discussed at length, at some point before I started checking into this site)
Alba Stark,
Black Raven,
I truly was taken aback by how much Theon’s speech moved me in that moment. Hell, I was ready to jump on a ship and sail with the Ironborn. Untill of course they speared poor Maester Luwin. A testament to the complexity of the story and stellar performance by Alfie Allen.
Wolfish,
I don’t think Aemon knew. I don’t think anyone knew aside from Ned and Howland Reed, but I do that hope Jon remembers dear old maester once he finds out about his Targaryen ancestry.
Ten Bears:
She’s not the only one, though: Remember, the scene cuts back and forth between Arya/Yoren and the Sept, where Sansa is screaming and begging for his life. So one of the many, many ways in which the two sisters can be contrasted is that Sansa, for all the horror that she was about to experience, could actually vocalize her grief because her presence was known, whereas Arya had to choke it down (or better stated, be forced to do so by Yoren, who protected her).
On the other hand, while there’s no denying that Arya was horrifically traumatized by her father’s death, her last memory of him is of him meeting her eyes and knowing she’s alive. Sansa’s last memory of him is of his head on a spike, in the moment before she considers pushing Joffrey off the ledge (and herself with him), before the Hound saves her.
Mr Fixit,
Wolfish,
I don’t think Aemon knew nor even slightly suspected. If he had it seems like the kind of information he would have shared with Jon, maybe Sam by way of warning.
Red Nightmare,
It was #100, at the bottom of the list.
JenniferH,
WORD. To all your excellent points!
Mr Fixit,
LOL!!! California state job with an hour-long lunch. Maybe I’ll start stashing a bottle of wine in my lunchbox, and pretending to be a sophisticated Frenchwoman like ACME… 😉
OT:
I just wanted to thank all the moderators for the magnificent panel at Con of Thrones. You were all great!
Wolfish,
You know what’s better? 8 hour job with a half an hour lunch break included in those 8 hours! 🙂
Also, that 9 to 5 thing is so terrible, who the hell came up with that? You can’t even see daylight by the time the work is done. Well, almost. I prefer the 7.30 to 3.30 thing myself.
How is The KING IN THE NORTH scene not even on this list?????????
Young Dragon,
So, so jealous!!! Sigh… Maybe next year.
Mr Fixit,
I worked in casinos for the first ten years of my working life (ages 16 to 26); what I miss the most about Nevada, besides flexibility in work hours (I always worked swing or graveyard), was the universal understanding that there are day, swing, and graveyard people. I would have performed far better in K-12 schooling had I ever slept well as a child or adolescent. I truly believe that much of humanity’s potential productivity is utterly wasted by the insistence that in many occupations keep to cookie-cutter schedules. And heaven knows, it makes it hell to schedule day-to-day appointments!
/end OT rant
Interestingly enough, I can’t think of a single Undrafted Free Agents scene for Season 4. The WotW picks basically covered everything.
In Season 5 I would nominate the following stuff:
Brienne reminiscing about Renly in 5×03 High Sparrow. Such a beautiful and sad story capped by a great line: Nothing’s more hateful than failing to protect the one you love.
I know it’s a very contentious point (to put it mildly), but I love the way they filmed Sansa’s wedding to Ramsay. The music, soft lantern light in the darkness of the godswood, everyone speaking in hushed voices, beautiful wedding dress… it’s such a great little scene oozing with atmosphere, a real slice of gothic fairytale transposed in the world of GoT. Many don’t feel like I do and that’s OK, but I can’t say I’m unhappy with how Sansa’s Season 5 storyline turned out.
Young Dragon,
ohhhhh – will there be video of this by chance?
I am a morning person, so I am in luck – I am out the door at 7am and am able to prepare the day before the kids show up. They leave at 4:00, I stay another hour or so, then back home. I am also lucky that I only live two miles from work! But when I get home I am wiped – and usually crawl into bed by 9. … Can’t imagine doing a sit down 9-5 job. Way too much fun chasing after the kids (which is why I am in bed by 9)
Mr Fixit,
I agree how perfect the wedding was, but Im so glad that not only was this whole sequence not on the list, but nothing of Ramsey was. Your name will disappear. Your hous will disappear. Your family will disappear. You will disappear
No I think I would have given a lot to see that arc changed but it is what it is. Shes in a good place now; just need to wait to see how all that she went thro influences what decisions she makes this season
Wolfish,
There are studies that show kids (esp teenagers) do much better in school if they start the day later. Little kids don’t seem to mind, but I’ve seen how hard it is on older kids and wish the times would change for them a bit, lets see what happens.
No Sandor vs. Gregor. okay
aviannumber,
Definitely not.
Wolfish,
Drinking (heavily) on the job is how we keep French elegance alive in all circumstances. I enthusiastically applaud your choice of lunchtime beverage. Vous honorez Paris avec cette décision ! 😉
And finally for Season 6, there are some left out masterpieces that I just have to mention!
Many people have already noticed the conspicuous absence of Jon’s KitN-ing (kittening ?) in Winds of Winter. That has got to be one of the most cathartic scenes in the history of the show. All the pent-up sadness, expectation, and hope get a release so powerful that it might as well be a tsunami. I certainly still can’t control my feelings when I re-watch the scene.
In the same episode, Cersei’s coronation definitely deserves a place as one of the all-time greats. Minimal dialogue, but Djawadi’s outstanding music coupled with Sapochnik’s directorial masterclass gave us another instance of gothic fairytale. Darkened throne room full of people who’d rather be anywhere but here (just look at those faces!) and a dark queen sitting sullenly on a spiky throne flanked by rows of ominous-looking soldiers. Note the camera, how low it is in those last moments as if nothing else matters except Cersei and her tyrannical grip on power. It’s a mesmerizing scene.
I also have a very soft spot for that little gem in 6×08 when Lady Crane takes care of Arya. A very low-key conversation between two kindred spirits. Sweet and sad and uplifting at the same moment. Maisie’s finest scene in Season 6 and quite probably Essie Davis’s as well. I love quiet stuff like this.
Damn, just noticed another one from Season 5 that’s my TOP contender! High Sparrow springs his trap upon unsuspecting Cersei in 5×07 The Gift. The brilliance of HS’s monologue, Cersei slowly realizing just what is about to happen. That’s got to be up there mingling with the other 100!
So, my consolidated list of scenes worthy of being included in the TOP 100 in the airing order is thus:
1. Ned’s farewell to Catelyn
2. Arya and Syrio’s first training
3. Ned sits on the Iron Throne and sentences the Mountain to death
4. Lord Tywin skins a stag
5. Maester Aemon reveals his identity to Jon Snow
6. Arya and Tywin Great Harrenhal Trifecta of 2012
7. Shae visits injured Tyrion after the Battle of Blackwater Bay
8. Tywin’s vicious verbal abuse of Tyrion after he asks for Casterly Rock
9. Theon confesses that he thinks of Ned Stark as his real father
10. Arya asks Thoros whether he can bring back a man without a head
11. Sansa’s wedding to Tyrion
12. Brienne reminisces about Renly
13. Sansa’s wedding to Ramsay in the godswood
14. High Sparrow springs his trap upon unsuspecting Cersei
15. Lady Crane takes care of Arya
16. Jon’s acclamation as King in the North
17. Cersei’s coronation.
THE END.
Man, this took most of the day. YAY!
Mr Fixit,
It does disappoint me that, to the best of my recollection, there were only two moments from Braavos. There was some very fine acting from several people, especially the theater troupe.
If anything, the difficulty of compiling this list, and disagreements among fans about what was or was not included, only reinforces what an incredible show this is despite a few flaws in adaptation.
Oh, definitely. I could easily put quite a few more recommendations in my TOP 100 list, but I deliberately opted only for the “best of the best”, stuff that I can’t in good conscience leave out. 🙂
“Dracarys” would be number 3 for me. From book to screen it was an adaptation that added more twist than was on the page. Thought it was clever in delivering a surprise to what would have been a spoiler for readers.
“Arya and the Hound are ready to die for chicken.”… would be in the top 20 for me.
D&D undercut my expectations for that one and delivered an action sequence worthy of Samuel Peckinpah !
Pigeon,
I was spoiled
I knew Robb and Catelyn were going to die at the wedding
Nothing prepared me for how
And let’s not forget Tallisa … I’m one of the few who believed she was a Lannister spy … (I don’t anymore… I did then) and then to watch her get brutally stabbed in her heavily pregnant stomach was just horrifying .
two full days without any news? Sad.
Boojam,
That scene is on the very top of my personal list, followed by Ned and Catelyn’s parting in Knights Landing, which I watched again last night and, as always, cried like the proverbial baby. I am a total sucker for cleverly written fight scenes and romantic partings. 😉
Wolfish,
It’s been a blast so far. You should definitely try to come next time, circumstances permitting.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
Prepare yourself, Hold the Door is Coming.
DAMMIT
ALL THE FEELS
Really loved the list, but I’m gonna do what most people did and list my faves that didn’t make the list.
Arya and Syrio’s first training
Lord Tywin skins a stag
Jaime’s two conversations with Catelyn
Arya and Tywin in Harrenhal
Sansa’s wedding to Tyrion
Tyrion’s speech during his trial
Sansa’s wedding in the God’s wood (Theon saying “who was her father’s ward” gets me everytime)
Theon confessing he didn’t kill Bran and Rickon (just give Alfie Allen an award already)
Balon Greyjoy is killed by his brother
The little bear gives Jon and Sansa sixty men
Jaime threatening Edmure
Jon’s acclamation as King in the North
Cersei’s coronation.
Like I said the other day, on a different thread, the thirst for revenge can be as addictive as any other substance on earth. Even though you achieve some, it never seems like enough, is never satisfying ENOUGH. A revenge addict always needs more. It is as dangerous and as damaging as any other addiction. Overcoming it requires a vast amount of personal strength, wisdom and ego monitoring to keep it in place. Not many have that depth of wisdom, either in the story or in modern times. I kept yelling at the TV: Oberyn, get away, either kill him outright or get away. Don’t dance near his hands … aw hell, he got you. See? damn ….
This week flew by. I would read the list quickly, then go about my day composing answers in my head, but by the time I was able to post, a new list appeared. The myriad memorable moments mentioned by the mods and the fans has proven that this show is indeed an embarrassment of riches, unlike any other I have ever watched.
I would have put the destruction of the Sept as #1, because it is a climax of the War of the Kings, because until the battle with the white walkers ratchets up, this is the direction of the story, and because Cersei ultimately taking the throne came as pretty much a complete surprise, at least to me.
We knew she was ambitious, but as far as I can remember, she was the only one of the possible contenders who never voiced a desire to sit the throne. Not in so many words. They showed Baelish finally professing his deepest desire for it, Renly, Stannis, all the rest wanted to rule, but they never showed Cersei showing an outright desire to be absolute ruler. Yet, she was the one, of all of them, who actually achieved it. The story now moves on from there, and outcome of the whole thing may hinge on what she does or does not do.
firstone,
No. Bron puts Shea on a boat. But when Joffrey dies, you can hear Tywin ordering the guards to search everywhere including every boat on the docks.
Mr Fixit,
On a filming level, I don’t think there’s any complaint to be made against it. Issues relating to the overarching narrative are separate from that.
I know. From my perspective though, (1) I like Sansa’s Season 5 arc (yeah, I know, crazy 😉 ); (2) her wedding to Ramsay is just so brilliantly staged, shot, scored, and acted. You know that feeling when there’s an ugly storm outside and you’re in a warm room with good company? That strange sensation when good and bad meet and you react with a kind of heightened awareness of your surroundings, deriving that extra enjoyment from being right there, right then? Well, the scene in the godswood has a similar effect on me. I know it’s a horrible turn of events. I know what will follow the very next scene. Yet I also know this is only a TV show, that none of this is real, but what is real in that moment are the performances and colors and music and the understanding that I’m experiencing the beauty of an exquisitely crafted scene. I hope you can understand what I’m trying, maybe clumsily, to convey. 🙂
ash,
It was a podcast, so you may find the audio somewhere on the internet.
Aguero,
mods are at the con I assume. and its fourth of july weekend. They deserve a rest after they did all this work!
Gecc1,
You are confusing Shea with Sansa 🙂 Bronn may have put her on the boat, or tried, but I suspect that soldiers intervened and brought her to Tywin, who ‘convinced’ her to lie about Tyrion at the trial. Sansa on the other hand, escaped from the wedding dinner and Tywin called for searching because she was being accused of killing Joffrey.
No doubt the media hype for season 8 is going to be very silly, with headlines like:
Entertainment Weekly: “Exclusive Behind The Scenes Look at Ser Jorah and Tyrion’s Hot Love Scene!”
Breitbart: “Is Daenerys Too Butch for Middle America? Yes!!!”
Cracked: “10 Untrue Things About The Brotherhood Without Banners That The Brotherhood Without Banners Want You To Think Are True”
NPR: “How Close Are Varys and Edward Snowden? Closer Than You Think”
Fox News: “Was Viserys Really That Bad?”
Watchers On The Wall: “The Last Season??? Nooooooooo!!!” 😉
ash,
No , its not their fault. Its because we really dont have nothing new for season 7, interviews, videos, information, really nothing.
Aguero,
With just two weeks before show time, and after two killer trailers, what more is there to say aside from bring it on? 😉
ash:
I forgot what episode it was in, but there’s a dinner-table scene where Cersei surreptitiously points Shae out to Tywin and tells him something to the effect of, “That’s Tyrion’s whore.” Tywin tells Cersei to bring her (or procure her or something similar). I was under the impression that, by the time Tyrion asked Bronn to take Shae, either 1) Tywin had already made plans to intercept Shae’s escape, knowing Tyrion would want to protect her, or 2) Tywin had already “turned” Shae via threats. I do wish it had been made more clear.
Catspaw Assassin,
Lol. Here are a couple others I found:
National Review: “Winter is Overrated, Stark Motto is a Farce”
Time: “The Pros and Cons of Inappropriate Raven Use”
Not all of us. To me, Olly was always a horribly traumatized kid. I understand that according to the tenor of the times, a child is held accountable as an adult as soon as he or she reaches puberty, and that Jon was expected to make the decision he did to execute him. But no way did I cheer it. It was a dreadful tragedy.
Hodors Bastard,
😉
Catspaw Assassin,
Hodors Bastard,
A website I follow for geopolitical analysis, Geopolitical Futures, did an amazing April Fools’ special report called “The Geopolitics of Ice and Fire.” Great analysis and wonderful maps. Alas, if one is not already signed up, to access it you might have to do so with an email address (curiously, sometimes I can see the “report” and sometimes I can’t). It’s written like any of their other reports, serious and detailed, which is what makes it so screamingly funny:
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/geopolitics-ice-fire/
In my mind #2 and #1 were always the only choices for those positions, though for me they could quite easily be reversed. It’s kind of a toss-up as to which is the more powerful scene, but both are the quintessential iconic, powerful scenes that will always be remembered and forever associated with the quality of the show.
Firannion,
YUP.
I didn’t cheer it either. And Saner Half, a military veteran who’s cheered many of the deaths on GoT including Janos Slynt’s, understood the necessity for it but had a reaction like yours.
So are they including Jon being proclaimed the King of the North as part of the 6th best with the Tower of Joy? If not, it’s an oversight by someone not to include this.
True story: I was at a party a couple of nights ago, and during a lull in the conversation I asked, nay shouted, “Any Game of Thrones fans in the house?” and nobody responded in the affirmative.
So much for the cliché that Brooklyn is hip!
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!! EVERYONE KNOWS BAD PUSSY IS #1!!!!!!
I’m so upset… no one click this link.
Thronetender,
You wrote:
“……. This week flew by. I would read the list quickly, then go about my day composing answers in my head, but by the time I was able to post, a new list appeared. The myriad memorable moments mentioned by the mods and the fans has proven that this show is indeed an embarrassment of riches, unlike any other I have ever watched.”
****
——————–
Reply: Exactly!
I could not keep up with the rapid-fire posts either.
The rankings were irrelevant. (Well, except for the uproar caused by #26 🍗). To know that there are that many “great” scenes, PLUS the personal favorites that weren’t selected, tells you that this show is unprecented.
I am not being critical when I say I wish these five segments of 20 had been spaced out over a couple of weeks. The “countdown” has been a refreshing opportunity to discuss what made a scene “great.” Too often, it’s the little ambiguities or the Big 2 Mulligans* that get disproportionate attention.
I’m going to read on to see what others’ personal favorites were.
* I’m referring to (1) LF’s absurd Sansa Poole “plan”, and Sansa’s inexplicable decision to go along with it; which directly led to her lies and concealments later; and (2) Dorne… though I thought the locations were beautiful, and liked Bronn💘 Tyene; if’s unfortunate that their flirtation will forever be reduced to those two words…
Arya Snark,
http://gph.is/1VDLA5k
Catspaw Assassin,
Well more interviews, title names , date of the red carpet..
A great read. Thx. I remember someone pointing it out a few months back. I especially enjoyed the Politics and Religion sections. It’s interesting how the Current Situation section actually has quite a bit of unabashed speculation (leak-based?) regarding S7. 🙂
Agreed. Two weeks away and my tv guide still says “7-1 TBA, yet The Strain final season premieres the same night and says “4-1 The Worm Turns”. Really bizarre I don’t think we’ve ever been this close to a premiere without knowing the title. And with the 4th of July holiday don’t expect anything until at least Wednesday.
Wolfish,
Funny stuff, and great maps!
Thronetender,
Re: your comment about the Sept explosion, and that “Cersei taking the throne came as a surprise,”
————–
Since Cersei’s preemptive surgical strike, I’ve been wondering if there’s a deliberate pattern set up by GRRM and carried forward by the showrunners in the following respect. With the understanding that I’m relying on second-hand accounts by other posters of the portrayals of certain characters and events in the books…
• More than once, we’ve seen characters playing a “long game”: seemingly outmaneuvering an adversary by methodically positioning pieces and patiently planning several moves ahead…only to see that adversary win the game in one fell swoop by blowing up the board.
• The High Sparrow had essentially taken control of the crown by turning spineless Tommen into his puppet and (he thought) had neutralized Cersei by stripping her of her power and influence (and her clothes). He was already getting ready to implement his next moves, eg to convict (and probably execute) Cersei and pressure Marg and Tommen to produce a royal heir to consolidate his own power.
But Cersei preempted her own “trial”, and eliminated the HS the FM, and all if his intricate schemes with one moment of “shock and awe.”
• Margaery was in the middle of a long con, but she too didn’t realize she didn’t have the luxury of watching it play out over time. In effect, it didn’t matter if Marg was “the” Queen and was manipulating Tommen and the HS. Cersei pushed “Game Over”, ending Marg’s long con – and Marg herself.
• I get the impression that Book!Doran thought he was cleverly playing a “long game” to exact “vengeance, justice, fire and blood.”
(Is that right?) Perhaps his plans are destined to end prematurely at the hands of impatient relatives. Waiting years and decades, and fostering long-term alliances, didn’t help Show!Doran. To those around him, it looked like he was sitting on his a*s doing nothing. So boom! He gets assassinated by his brother’s pseudo-widow and his son gets Karl Tannered by his own cousins. (And Oberyn’s “We don’t hurt little girls in Dorne” goes into the bulls*it bin.)
• I had also gotten the impression that Book!Cersei was becoming unhinged and was either going to self-destruct, or go completely bonkers and burn the entire city to ashes. It looked like she was at a low point. . Either way, I didn’t foresee “blowing up the board” and capturing the throne, but it all makes logocal sense.
• Jon Snow was looking at the big picture, planning ahead for the “great war” when he implemented his wildling resettlement program. He also didn’t foresee that Thorne
& Co. would preempt him by going with the nuclear option: clearing the board and seizing power.
• Even a master tactician like Tyrian thought he had secured peace with a long-term compromise with the Masters, notwithstanding Grey Worm’s misgivings. Sure enough, the Masters violated that pact and sought to “blow up the board” by annihilating their adversary.
I don’t know what to make of all this. Is there some kind of message that long-term planning is foolish? Whether the objective is laudable or selfish, are the “long-gamers” shortsighted?
Wolfish,
It was at the purple wedding. She says ‘thats the one I was telling you about’…
Firannion,
He not only was traumatized by the loss of his family and home, but was surrounded by men who he admired told him how awful jon was. I felt for him, but jon didn’t want to do it, and was looking for a sign that he was sorry. But it was obvious he hated him and would do it again. Jon didn’t have much of a choice at that point. But yes, sad and tragic
Ten Bears,
Im glad that they posted as quickly as they did, because I wanted to know the next 20 in the list! But yeah people tend to comment in the new post (however the other three are still somewhat active) so it seems like there isn’t enough of a chance to discuss just those scenes and it all went very fast. Maybe spread out over a couple of weeks would be a good idea. I almost want there to be a new post with the list, and the opportunity to talk about it in one post, rather than trying to go back and forth between the others sort of a summary.
Season 4 episode 2 The Lion and Rose – perfect title for the episode.
At the before wedding dinner Joffery is receiving gifts. Joffery is given his Valyrian sword and names it Widow’s Wail (a fitting name considering Joffery is about to die)…
Cersei sees Shea and says to Tywin “That’s the whore I told you about – The dark-haired one” and Tywin says ” Have her brought to the Tower of the Hand before the wedding”.
The timing of Shae leaving and Tywin finding out about her couldn’t have been more perfect.
The scene before the wedding dinner scene is outstanding too!!! Ramsey shows Roose the new Theon Greyjoy “Reek”…. Ramsey has Reek give him a nice close shave and has Reek tell Roose that Rickon and Bran Stark are still alive…
Hodors Bastard,
Catspaw Assassin,
Glad you enjoyed it! 😛
ash,
firstone,
Thank you for refreshing my memory!
GeekFurious,
I feel bad for Rosabell Laurenti Sellers. She shouldn’t have these two words assiciated with her performance. I liked Tyene & Bronn.
Littlefinger seems to have deduced that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar’s son, so probably Aemon would have too. He obviously had personal interest, but between his 1000-volume library and his awareness of current events at the time of the rebellion, he surely would have concluded that L+R might have had a child, and a bastard Stark of about the right age might not have been Ned’s. FWIW, I have a hunch he might have had a soft spot for Jon based only on his Stark identity.
Arya Snark,
Yes! Arya’s (unexpected) laugh was a great moment…especially when she looks up at Sandor’s disappointed face…and continues laughing even harder.
What I also liked about this scene was their banter while they’re walking to the Bloody Gate: They’re talking about killing methods as if they’re discussing their tennis games. (Sandor: “Real men smash winners down the baseline.” Arya: “That’s your stupid pride talking. That’s why you’ll never be a great tennis player. I’d win a point with a dink shot if I had to”).
https://ibb.co/iCVmza
SHAME
Mr Fixit,
Glad you mentioned Lady Crane (Essie Davis) scenes. I liked the instant rapport between LC and Arya ( & “expressive eyebrows” comment); Arya’s suggested script changes and the way LC incorporated them in her performance (sorrow > anger); abd the way you could tell Arya had experienced the pain of losing someone “without getting a chance to say goodbye.”
There are a handful of “guest” actors I really wish were regulars. Essie Davis was one. Ania Bukstein (?) who played Kinvara was another. (I rewatched her scene yesterday; she spooked Varys. She spooked me. )
Mr Fixit,
Hold on a second. You can’t think of a single Undrafted Free Agent from S4?
I’d better go look at the complete list from #1 to -#101 again. Because I’m pretty sure one of my all-time Top Ten scenes didn’t make the list, ie, it’s my top Free Agent: Rory McCann’s fantastic monologue (starts with “No fire! No fire”… “Shut up about it. Shut up about everyyhing !”) May be in S4e7.
Great article from the Irish Independent with several cast members. 😊👍
http://m.independent.ie/entertainment/television/ahead-of-the-game-35874094.html
Pigeon,
Thank you for the find!!!
Methinks, however, that the writer (or whoever wrote the introductory blurb) doesn’t know the meaning of “cult TV series”…
And why didn’t the cute pics of John Bradley and Gemma Whelan show up on the main page of the article?
Wolfish,
If I could bear to watch either of those scenes again (Ned’s execution and Joffrey forcing Sansa to look at…), I’d remember the details better.
I didn’t know it was coming. So wben Ned got up and made a false public confession, my first thought was “that really sucks.” My second thought was “why didn’t he get his daughters out of Dodge before he gave Cersei a head’s up to get HER kids out of Dodge?” My third thought was “Wait…I thought he was doing this to rescue his daughter; why’s she still here? You don’t confess to anything until they keep their end of the bargain”)
….and then when nobody stopped that little psycho from reneging on the false confession deal…
It took a while to appreciate that he accomplished nothing. He sacrificed his “honor” for nothing.
Agreed on both counts! I liked the actual cast comments though….Pilou made me laugh. And Aidan’s grocery store experience. I wonder if he was buying more infamous ice cream bars?
Pigeon:
I have no idea what you’re referring to (?), but a Google search did yield the following gem:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/34/0e/f0/340ef09075c9e07f8c13a4c14414b0af–hbo-game-of-thrones-aidan-gillen.jpg
Ten Bears,
It’s definitely an interesting observation that long-term planning really doesn’t seem to pay off very often in this story. On the other hand, it seems like the victories gained by blowing up the board don’t always last long, because someone else comes along and blows up the board again. The only people who seem to consistently do well are those who are able to improvise well, and adapt to a constantly changing game.
I think this is a large part of why Littlefinger has done well so far. He works behind the scenes to cause chaos, and then looks for opportunities to take advantage of this. It’s a strategy that only really works if you’re a sociopath who doesn’t care about the damage you cause in the process, as long as you win, and it seems like his purpose in forming any alliance is not really to gain allies, but rather to position himself to bring them down.
He says he wants the Iron Throne, and Sansa by his side, but it seems pretty clear from his actions that the Iron Throne is what he really wants, and he just sees Sansa as a bonus prize, not an actual person who he cares about. I don’t think he’s really capable of caring about other people.
Cersei may have flipped the board and killed all her enemies in King’s Landing with a stunningly successful surprise attack, but I don’t think it’s a move that will pay off for her in the long run. Looking at the enemies she killed, it was the Tyrells and the Faith Militant.
The Tyrells were only her her enemies because of her obsession with her own personal power rather than her family power. They would have likely been solid allies to house Lannister against the upcoming Targaryen invasion if she had not been obsessed with keeping absolute control for herself.
If she had accepted the fact that Tommen was the King, and Margaery was the Queen, and been genuinely friendly to Margaery, rather than passive aggressive (or outright threatening on several occasions), they might have formed a strong alliance. Now, she has managed to kill the future of house Tyrell, but most of their army is likely still fine, and their best strategist (the Queen of Thorns) is still alive, and very angry.
The Faith Militant was only a significant enemy because Cersei herself had empowered them to use as a weapon in her feud with the Tyrells. This means that Cersei’s great “victory” was a victory for Cersei in terms of her personal control over King’s Landing, at the expense of essentially shooting herself in the foot regarding the bigger game by alienating her potential allies. I also can’t imagine that the common people of King’s Landing are very happy with her rule at the moment either, which could be bad for her as soon as they see a better alternative.
Outside of King’s Landing, the North is against her, the Vale is against her, the Reach is against her, and Dorne is against her. In the Riverlands, her only support is from the Freys, but Lord Walder and a couple of his sons just had an unpleasant encounter with Arya, and now Edmure Tully might be free, so Cersei’s control over the Riverlands is questionable. Even in the Westerlands, Cersei’s control could be weak because her remaining relatives might be unhappy that she blew up Kevan and Lancel. If Jaime ever turns against her, its likely that house Lannister will go with him.
Cersei plays the Game ruthlessly and aggressively, and sometimes that works out, but she doesn’t seem to have Littlefinger’s talent for taking advantage of the chaos she causes, and she often wins short term victories that turn out to actually be blunders, which she only survives due to outside assistance. Nobody trusts Littlefinger, but few regard him as an outright enemy, while Cersei seems to make an enemy of almost everyone she meets.
She eliminated King Robert and Ned Stark, but as a result, she started a war and almost got herself and her children killed at the battle of Blackwater. She survived because Tywin showed up to save her. She used the Faith Militant to go after the Tyrells, and that turned out very bad for her until Qyburn helped her. She has now achieved another stunning short term victory, but I question whether there will be anyone left to save her this time when the consequences of her victory blow up in her face.
One thing I find interesting about Cersei’s victory is that very few people seem to pay much attention to how huge Qyburn’s role in it is. He stays in the background, acting like just some creepy advisor, but he seems to be largely responsible for locating the wildfire and orchestrating the destruction of the Sept. He’s also responsible for Frankengregor, who made it practically impossible for anyone to arrest Cersei by force during season 6, at least not without storming the Red Keep with a substantial army.
Without Qyburn and Frankengregor, Cersei would not be where she is now. The question is, does Qyburn have some separate agenda of his own that he’s using Cersei for, or does he simply favor a ruler who appreciates and supports his creepy talents, rather than persecuting him for his morally objectionable experiments?
Alba Stark,
Great synopses! Good reading. 😊.
Quick question about “Baelor” – I’ve read a few slightly different takes on what was going on when Ned recognized Yoren and said “Baelor!” to him. Obviously Ned is directing Yoren’s attention to the ststue of Baelor, because Ned saw that Arya is perched on the base of the statue.
I can’t scroll up to get your exact wording. I think you interpreted Ned’s intent as asking Yoren to “protect” Arya.
I’ve read other accounts that contend Ned saw Arya with her hand on Needle, and was concerned she would charge the stage and try to rescue him; Ned wanted Yoren to prevent that from happening.
How did you see it?
Casso:
HA! I’ve often wondered this myself. Qyburn was with the prisoners found at Harrenhal after the Mountain had abandoned it and, if I recall correctly, ordered everyone there killed. It’s Talisa Stark who fixes him up before he eventually winds up treating Jaime and then traveling south with Jaime and Brienne. So… We have no idea what he did after being dechained, where he was when he was captured and taken to Harrenhal, and why he’d be interested in Frankensteining a man who may once have ordered his death as part of a mass execution of prisoners. Mmm-hmmm. Trustworthy! /sarcasm
Slightly OT: Anton Lesser, who plays Qyburn, played Romeo in a 1980 production of “Romeo and Juliet” by the Royal Shakespeare Company. Whoa.
Hee! Love it.
No, I was referring to the iconic Aidan/Conleth/Michael convenience store photos:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/31/79/42/317942366fff22f217c696be3b5849c5–ice-cream-bars-an-ice-cream.jpg
https://secure.static.tumblr.com/a711bef1c3f04d982e22c464b218aeeb/vgozijx/Prfnguwml/tumblr_static_tumblr_static__640.jpg
Wolfish,
Hee! Love it.
No, I was referring to the iconic Aidan/Conleth/Michael convenience store photos:
Hee! Love it.
No, I was referring to the iconic Aidan/Conleth/Michael convenience store photos:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/31/79/42/317942366fff22f217c696be3b5849c5–ice-cream-bars-an-ice-cream.jpg
https://secure.static.tumblr.com/a711bef1c3f04d982e22c464b218aeeb/vgozijx/Prfnguwml/tumblr_static_tumblr_static__640.jpg
I doubt Gregor paid much attention to who he was executing in Harrenhal, but I sometimes wonder if he still has enough awareness and identity to remember doing it, and if so, I wonder if Qyburn ever mentioned to him that he was one of the victims at Harrenhal. It also makes me wonder how absolute Qyburn’s control over Gregor is. Gregor can still obviously understand verbal orders, and he seems to obey Cersei, but is this because he still has some part of his identity left that is loyal to her, or is it because Qyburn commanded him to obey her…for now.
One of the things I find interesting about Qyburn is that he’s a character with a very low key introduction, but his role seems to keep growing, but in a very natural, inconspicuous way. Unlike Oberyn Martell, who is very obviously an important character from the moment he appears, Qyburn at first seems insignificant, and his significance doesn’t really start to become apparent until you start seeing the conflict between him and Grand Maester Pycelle.
Hmmmh, you may be right. There are two potential top list contenders with Arya and the Hound in Season 4. Not sure why I skipped them. The one you mention is, well, one. I also very much like the stuff with the dying old man. It’s not often that the show gives us view of the smallfolk and how ravages of the war impacted them. In that regard, Arya’s fourth season was a great examination of the same themes that made certain parts of A Feast for Crows such a compelling read: the ultimate futility, hopelessness, and sheer wastefulness of war; the total breakdown of order and social norms that come in its wake. I found this particular scene a great little microcosm of those larger issues. Very effective.
Just posted this status on my Facebook wall
I would like to apologise in advance to every1 on my Facebook friend list
2 weeks from now I shall become extremely annoying to some of you and a HYPE machine for the rest of you
It will be very hard to get in touch with me or hold a conversation unless it revolves around the reason for my tidal wave of posts
I’m not saying I don’t care about you, what you have to say, or life in general but 2 weeks from now will be when GAME OF THRONES SEASON 7 starts and everything I say do or post will be about the show
I WILL NOT POST SPOILERS but you can expect reactions, discussions and a ton of memes
Also if Sansa Stark dies at any point during this season please allow me a few days of mourning.
Even when I read Catelyn’s last wedding chapter, I hear Michelle’s voice, her scream… It gets me every time! And Richard’s “mother”, the look on his face as he knows that it’s all over and it can’t be helped.. They were brilliant The scene was a masterpiece. I still can’t get over it.
If anyone wants full confirmation that Sophie Turner is a troll, here it is:
http://www.eonline.com/news/864599/sophie-turner-says-game-of-thrones-was-her-sexual-education
“The first time I found out about oral sex was reading the Game of Thrones script. I was 13. I said, ‘Wow! People do that? That’s fascinating,'” she joked. “I guess that was my sex education. Being on Game of Thrones.”
Luka, have fun making a headline outta this one 😉
HelloThere,
That’s not trolling though. She’s said it in the past, and it makes sense. As a child working on this show, she probably did first hear about oral sex while reading a script.
Markus Stark,
I know, lol
But I can tell she likes to say stuff in interviews to get a rise out of people 🙂
I find her funny
Pigeon,
“A pimp, a eunuch, and a psychopath walk into a store….”
Please let someone wittier than I come up with a good joke that starts like that.
HelloThere,
She is indeed. She seems fun to hang out with.
Only 2 weeks now *chews nails off*
Pigeon,
OMG priceless. Aiden and that icecream bar! Ahh!!
Interesting that Conleth has no hair in these – I know in other interviews he’s mentioned he rarely gets noticed since he has hair iRL.
HelloThere,
I also learned from that interview that ST has a boyfriend with ridiculous abs. O_o
Ten Bears,
“interpreted Ned’s intent as asking Yoren to “protect” Arya.
I’ve read other accounts that contend Ned saw Arya with her hand on Needle, and was concerned she would charge the stage and try to rescue him; Ned wanted Yoren to prevent that from happening.”
You question wasn’t directed to me but here is my two cents anyway 🙂
It was my interpretation that Ned’s desperate plea to Yoren was all encompassing; protect her from charging The Sept, protect her from seeing what is about to occur, and protect her from falling into the Lannister’s clutches.
I think you can interpret this scene in more than one way – I tend to lean towards Ned asking Yoren to protect Arya.
Since his arrest, the only news Ned has likely received of his daughters is what Varys has chosen to tell him. He knows Sansa is effectively Cersei’s prisoner, but Arya is free. Ned seeing her at the statue is confirmation of both Varys’s words and that Arya is still alive.
When Yoren arrived in King’s Landing, he told Ned that he’d ridden fast to get to the city so he could let him know about Catelyn arresting Tyrion – he said he’d done so as Benjen was his brother as much as Ned’s. He speaks about his and Benjen’s blood both running black. Ned is trusting that Yoren will help Arya because she is as much Benjen’s blood as he is.
It is possible that more than one interpretation is valid – in stopping her from storming to the front Yoren would be protecting Arya, would he not? This is one of the things I love about the show – there is often that ambiguity about motivation. So much is left open to the interpretation of the actor and the viewer.
As I said in my last post, one of the things I love about this show is how ambiguous some things are – it gives us so many topics for debate.
I don’t think LF knows who Jon is. I don’t think he even suspects Jon isn’t Ned’s son. The scene with Sansa in the crypts, the reason most think he does know, is one I interpret differently.
Sansa: Yes he chose her. And then he kidnapped her and raped her.
It is at this point we see a hint of a smirk on LF’s face; I don’t attribute that to LF knowing who Jon is, I attribute it to LF really not buying the official story Ned and Robert have been peddling for years. Instead, I think he figures Lyanna went willingly and any sexual relationship they had was consensual – and any attempt by Ned to argue otherwise is simply him trying to cover up his sister’s good name and honor. The smirk doesn’t say I know what happened next; it says believe that if you want to.
I think LF sees Jon as living proof Ned wasn’t good enough for Catelyn – look at how he brought home a bastard to be raised in their marital home. Ned is famous for his sense of honor, and Jon is proof that perhaps he doesn’t quite live up to it. Jon is proof Ned isn’t perfect.
As for Maester Aemon, I sadly don’t think he ever knew Jon was his blood. I don’t even think the idea crossed his mind. I have a head-canon that Ned played a little fast and loose with dates to separate Jon’s birth and Lyanna’s death – to try and minimize the possibility that someone could put two and two together and make four. I also have a head-canon that Benjen did make four at some stage, but he and Ned never spoke of it – that, however, is a debate for another time.
Agreed. The focus always has been on the main characters. At this point in the story, there is no reason to think that this will change. Moreover, at this point in the story, it really cannot change: we need to see the big “payoffs” from 5+ years of character evolution. Arbitrary plot shifts (like northern plots or legions of “good” undead under Winterfell or Euron becoming the primary adversary or any of these sort of ideas) not only would fail to further the story, they would actually distract from it.
That stated, there could well be conflict between Sansa & Jon regarding what the North should be doing. Again, the big issue is going to be: who/what is the real enemy? The Walkers mean nothing to Sansa whereas she has a very intense personal grudge against the Lannisters. Jon dislikes the Lannisters, but he’s “only” lost family to them, not pieces of himself, whereas the Walkers have cost him personally and dearly. (Ultimately, the Walkers are why he was killed: he made one choice regarding Walkers vs. Wildlings as The Threat whereas Thorne and others made another.)
Regarding the Top 100 list: you guys did a really good job! I cannot say that I disagree with any of the choices. Oh, I might have flip-flopped a few things: but, really, it would be quibbling over subjective reactions. Kudos.
Now, let’s hope that S7A & S7B push at least 25 of these scenes off of the list! If series like Harry Potter or Lost are any guide (and these series really are our only guides), then there certainly will be far greater dissension there among fans about these scenes. A lot of fans are going to be really disappointed when pet “theories” do not pan out. As many of these theories are mutually exclusive, there will be no universal “win.” However, I am betting that MB&W are going to knock the socks off of most of the general viewers/readers.
i really believe that the TOJ #6 should be #1. It was the first real question on the show and in the books. The story has been leading up to the answering the question of ” Who are Jons parents” to since the very first or second scene, or chapter in the story. It was a bigger question than if “Jon was coming back to life”? Iguess the biggest un answered question that still remains is” Who is Azar Ahai?
Arya Snark,
same for me.Arya’s laugh was a great TV moment
It would not stretch credulity for Aemon to have suspected. For readers and viewers, Jon being Lyanna’s son was always a parsimony argument rather than a direct evidence argument. That is, it was a very simple explanation consistent with all of the facts rather than an explanation that had one or two smoking gun “unique predictions.” Aemon certainly knew the basics that we readers/viewers knew: Rhaegar & Lyanna were together more than long enough to produce a child, Ned appeared with a child that he claimed as his own at the right time, any child of Lyanna & Rhaegar’s would have to be kept hidden (even if hidden in plain sight) because of Robert, etc.
That stated: if he had suspected, then why didn’t he raise these suspicions with Jon? My guess is that Ned’s “hidden in plain sight” tactic worked even on Aemon.
There is one possible “out” on this. Sam is in the Citadel. Aemon was a member of the Citadel. Aemon might have sent what he knew there. We often have wondered if we will learn that Rhaegar had actually married Lyanna. Well, if Rhaegar told anyone, then Uncle Aemon might have been the person: and sending appropriate documents to the Wall (which is something of a safe haven) until after the war (whoops) would have been tactically sensible.
Many people have floated ideas about Sam discovering the secret to Valyrian steel or some other weapon of mass-destruction against the Walkers. Again, this would be completely arbitrary. (It also would border on an idiot plot: why would the Citadel have this information when the Valyrian peoples in Essos seem to have lost it? Why would Sam be the first person to accidentally stumble on to the information? This would not just be Deus ex Machina, but it would also border on a plot hole.) In contrast, Jon learning that he actually is not a bastard, and that his entire life’s quest to prove that he could be just as honorable as as a legitimate man was based on false pretenses, would have a profound effect on him. This also would have a huge effect on Daenerys. As such, it’s so very tempting to expect this or something like this to happen.
Still, being me, I will raise my biggest objection to this idea: this also is the sort of thing to which we might expect Aemon to refer in his dying delirium. If he knew, then it would have weighed heavily on his mind. Yet, he did not.
So, have I convinced anybody? If so, then of what, because I’m completely split right now….. 😀
Given that LF smirks as a default facial expression, I don’t know that we can read anything into it! In all honesty, I think that both Book!LF and Show!LF is a good poker player on both fronts. That is, he’s not just good at getting good hands (by playing the odds well), but he’s very good at acting as if he’s got a good hand. His all-knowing smirk is one of those things.
Although I know that there will always be an “LF is Omniscient!” crowd, I think that we should know by now that he’s not. Yes, his brothels provided him with a ton of information about peoples in Kings Landing and people who frequented Kings Landing. However, when it comes to the North or Dorne or other players, LF knows about as much as Voldemort did about children’s tales and house-elf powers. True, LF probably heard the stories that Lyanna actually eloped with Rhaegar. However, LF also is canny enough to know that Targaryen sympathizers would have invented these stories even if they were not true: it’s no different from Trump supporters believing that New York Muslims celebrated the 9-11 attacks or that environmental regulations killed coal jobs. LF must be good at sorting out what people want to believe from what is true. Most of the time, that’s a smart tactic: but every now and then, what people want to be true actually is true. LF should be prone to missing those exceptions.
(Keep in mind also that this was not just something Ned & Robert peddled: this seems to be what everyone thought had happened. Again, the fact that people did not know that Lyanna Stark was not a typical Westerosi lady probably contributed to this; a Catelyn Tully would never have done such a thing, after all.)
Wimsey,
Ha. Well you haven’t convinced me but reaffirmed my conviction that Aemon did not know.
It is possible that Aemon may have known and thought to best protect Jon would be to not share this bit of information. But what about when Aemon was near death?
So much of his thoughts (especially in the books) concerned Daenerys and his regret that he could not help his fellow Targaryen.
Even if all Aemon had were suspicions he would have told Jon or Sam.
Ten Bears,
This always surprised me that Jon could be so naive that he didn’t suspect the traitors. I chalk it up to age and lack of experience, but he had to have known how much they hated this and how much they hated the wildings. Jon certainly is looking long term, but in the future, he should realize that many are just fine with short term thinking. Im not sure this means long term planning is foolish. I think that people planning long term need to consider short term reactions (I was surprised by Tyrions actions with the masters as well – he had to have known that was going to blow up in his face, and he certainly is not naive and lacking experience)
Its funny. Only Dragon birth made me a fan. And all Targaryen scenes. Nothing more.
Alba Stark,
Im confused – is yoren related to Ned? Or were they fighting compainions and hence brothers?
Re the scene, Ned turned his eyes to Yoren and whispered ‘Baelor’. Yoren turned, saw her and held her. Ned did that to protect her and comfort her. I didn’t notice she had needle in her hands, so yeah I coud see that too, but its all tied together anyway, to protect Arya (tho if he wanted to protect her he woud have sent both girls home much earlier)
Did not confuse them. Firstone was wondering if Bronn betrayed Tyrion by giving Shae to Tywin. I do not believe so. I believe Bronn puts Shae on a boat, but when Tywin orders all boats searched, they find Shae. Yes, Tywin was actually looking for Sansa, but he was also looking for Shae, and if he wasn’t already looking for Shae, he would’ve arrested her anyway as she was Sansa’s chambermaid and could’ve known something.
Gecc1,
Ok, thanks for the clarification, I misread that, sorry.
ash,
Oh but Jon knew they hated him.That’s clear in his talk with maester Aemon and again before Sam left for Oldtown he said he was the most hated man in Castle Black.But he still had to do what he did.It was more important.He probably suspected them but even though Thorne didn’t like him he knew he was loyal to the Watch.So he probably didn’t think they would go that far.Not Olly though that took him by surprise.
Wimsey,
• Wouldn’t your buddy William frown upon a conclusion requiring so many assumptions? I haven’t seen the slightest indication Aemon knew Jon was related to him. The only “Easter Egg” on the show – Jon coincidentally walking by when Aemon says a Targaryan alone in the world is a terrible thing – only signifies Aemon was talking about Daeny halfway around the world, not realizijg there was a secret Targ right under his nose. I saw nothing suggesting Aemon knew Jon’s true parentage; his heart to heart talks with Jon presupposed that Ned was his dad.
(PS Did you float a theory and then object to your own theory? 🤔)
•. Instead of wondering if Aemon knew Jon Snow was a secret Prince but pretended he didn’t, I’ve been trying to figure out why Melisandre has seized upon the Bastard of Winterfell as a Prince that was promised. Does she have some kind of king’s blood detector implanted in her [__]? And why is she always disrobing for fellas with royal blood (eg Stannis, Gendry and Jon)?
Didn’t she make an unjustified logical leap when she conceded Stannis wasn’t the Prince that [sic] was Promised, but “someone has to be,” and then glommed onto Jon Snow because…abs? Why not Doloures Edd?
Sorry for not explaining myself properly – I meant that Yoren considered Benjen his brother in the sense that they were both brothers of the Night’s Watch; Ned, obviously was Benjen’s brother in blood. Both see Benjen as a brother and Yoren says it was because of that he traveled as quickly as he could to warn Ned about Catelyn arresting Tyrion.
Didn’t you get the memo? Book!Azor Ahai = Show!Warrior of Light = Sandor Clegane.
Great list! All amazing moments. I was so torn watching the Brienne and Sandor fight. I love them both!
We’re in the home stretch for the new season countdown! Can’t waaaait!!! 😀
Although Mel’s internal discourse is briefly mentally analyzed in ADwD, I thought they did it justice in the show (S4Ep10). Mel looks to see Stannis in the flames but all she sees is Snow (in the books it’s falling snow…). She is desperate to bolster her unraveling link with R’hllor and is looking for any sign that her ambitions are valid. (In the books, that’s all we have thus far).
I’m sure, from the show’s perspective, she believes R’hllor sent her back to the wall (away from Stannis) for a reason…proving that Stannis was only a vehicle to get to TPtwP.
QueenofThrones,
U mean Nick Jonas, lol
Never been this quiet 2 weeks before a premiere. Something feels off and doesn’t seem right.
The Red Carpet season 7 premiere has to be a week from today and hopefully very soon there will some late night talk show appearances with Jon Ice and Daenerys Fire and a few other stars too with new scene previews,,,
HBO should announce the season 7 episode 1 title today at the Con of Thrones Convention
That would be fun. I bet Luka is pinging HBO’s schedule and HBO Nordic every minute! 🙂
She could just have been saying it because she was trying to seduce him at the time, but when Melisandre tries it on with Jon Snow in season five, she says “There’s power in you. You resist it and that’s your mistake. Embrace it.”
Stannis is still alive at this point and until she leaves his encampment, I think Melisandre sees him as the Prince that was Promised – but if she truly meant/believed what she said to Jon in the attempted seduction scene then she’d identified something in him long before she named him the Prince that was Promised.
I have to say, I think Edd would make a pretty cool Prince that was Promised.
HBO isn’t at Con of Thrones. Plus they won’t announce the title on a weekend or holiday because not everyone is working and they’ll want as many people to report on it as possible. There will be no announcement until at least Wednesday after the holiday.
Mr Fixit,
That scene is one my own two favorites between the two, for the reasons you stated and for my favorite line of dialogue he speaks to her: “That’s where the heart is.”
HelloThere:
I see what you did there…. LMAO!
(goes to the heart tree in the back yard, under which two wolves and five shadowcats are buried, to pray to the Old Gods for the prevention of another Sophie/Sansa bashing thread)
Pigeon,
OMG.
I can’t tell whether or not he’s abusing that ice-cream bar.
Get your head out of the gutter, Wolfish. OUT. OF. THE GUTTER.
Pigeon,
Ah yes, one of my favorite cast photos ever. XD
And – Yoren was also the recruiter for the Night’s Watch. In that capacity he probably saw Ned more than Benjen did. He spent a lot of time at Winterfell during his travels so the family knew him well and he had a level of loyalty to them.
Wimsey:
Sansa certainly has plenty of reasons to hold “a very intense personal grudge against the Lannisters,” but if it turns out she’s so focused on personal revenge that she refuses to heed first-person accounts given by her “brother” and hundreds of Wildlings, she’ll deserve any negative consequences of her obtuseness.
I really hope that’s not the case.
Wimsey:
This has occurred to me more than once, so you’re certainly not alone in this reasoning. The question is, who at the Citadel would have been so trustworthy? The character played by Jim Broadbent?
As for the other point quoted above, my understanding is that very often—in cases of both dementia and end-of-life delirium—the memories that are most vivid are the formative ones (e.g., those formed in childhood and adolescence), not later ones. In this context, Aemon’s dying words make complete sense: “Egg, I dreamed I was old.”
Jenny,
Yeah, probably right; for sure Olly was a surprise. Still tho, naive to think that they would just accept the wildings. Think he probably should have had more converations with them, or bring some of them in and then talk together. But nothing would probably come of that. See Balkans and Middle East for a few examples. They (NW) was just too intrenched in their views that nothing was going to move that
Cant remember, did Aemon die before or after Jon brought in the Wildlings. I remember Jon asking him, and he just answered ‘kill the boy…..’. If Aemon was there would he have been able to act as a go between and come up with a compromise that would please them both? If Aemon agreed with Jon, would they have agreed with him?
Alba Stark,
Ok, that makes sense, thanks
All of those US shows are now on holiday/Summer break and doing re-runs for this entire week, and it appears many of them will be next week as well.
Fallon, Kimmel, Meyers, Colbert, Corden and Conan are definitely repeats all of this coming week. Fallon is off at least through the 11th but I suspect all of next week. Meyers is re-runs through the 14th. Almost certain all of them will be off through the premiere. I thought there might be a chance for Conan but he’s going to Comic Con again the week after the premiere so that lessens the possibility.
It’s just not a good time of year for much of the usual promotional stuff. It looks like any late night guest appearances will have to be during the season rather than before.
Wolfish,
I’ll join you there…..virtually anyway. If I go outside and sit in the shade I’ll probably get heat exhaustion….
Ten Bears:
On your first point, there was a much weightier “Easter egg” in the exchange between Jon and Maester Aemon in “Baelor”:
Aemon: Tell me, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night’s Watch take no wives and father no children?
Jon: No.
Aemon: So they will not love. Love is the death of duty. If the day should ever come when your lord father was forced to choose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?
Jon: He… He would do whatever was right. No matter what.
Aemon: Then Lord Stark is one man in 10,000. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman’s love? And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother’s smile?
And what is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms? Or a brother’s smile?
On your second point, Melisandre is pretty desperate at this, er, juncture—and the Starks had been Kings in the North for millennia before Aegon’s conquest, so in her eyes a bastard son of House Stark was as likely (or likelier) a prince as a bastard son of House Baratheon.
But would Sansa be being obtuse? She has zero first-hand experience with White Walkers. She only knows of them from stories: and Sansa has learned the hard truth that stories are full of lies. Yes, Jon says that there is a problem: but why should Sansa think that Jon somehow has a better perspective on the big picture than she does!
Look at it this way: Sansa might understandably feel aggrieved that Jon did not take her perspectives seriously when planning tactics for Ramsay, Jon didn’t take her very seriously, and it almost cost them hugely. She was right then. Human minds being what they are, this will make her feel more certain that she’s right again and Jon is wrong again if she concludes that the Lannisters (who’s powers and cruelties she knows first hand) are a bigger threat than the White Walkers (who sound just a bit like bad guys from one of those dumb stories that Sansa used to think meant anything).
Indeed, if anything, then Sansa would be being a bit obtuse to just blindly trust Jon on this: blind faith never has worked out for her before!
Does it have to be to someone “trustworthy?” It could simply have been something set aside to be opened after his death or something like that. Such bequests are hardly uncommon in our world: it is not as if it is something that needs to be setup for a story.
I find it hard to believe that Sansa isn’t suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, given that she has been surrounded by socio-psychopaths for the bulk of 6 seasons/three years. Ramsay’s dying words will linger within her. That smile while the dogs had dinner is quite telling. Is she stronger because of her experiences or a bit more manic? I believe her judgment will be questionable from here on out.
Yes! For that reason (in his dying moments, Aemon returns to fond childhood memories) and that he has died naturally and that he takes so many memories/ possible answers with him…I treasure this amazing scene on screen and page. It’s in my top 10.
How very Pet Sematary of you… 🙂
Ah, but which is “right”? Ned was stuck in that trap in the end: it is wrong to do anything to endanger your family, and it is wrong to not follow primogeniture. So, what do you do when following primogeniture endangers your family but protecting your family mens ignoring primogeniture?
Aemon was wrong: the man doing the right thing was non-existent, as doing a right thing meant doing a wrong thing!
Wow – Thanks for that info but … That sucks…. Maybe in August if the late night shows don’t take August off there might be some late night appearances.
I guess the Red Carpet premiere is the next big news to look forward to…. and I’ll be surprised again if HBO doesn’t have a Red Carpet premiere showing of the first episode of season 7
Wimsey,
I mean Sansa could think that,tbh I’m pretty sure she will.But I still don’t get it.If your brother who you know is not crazy and thousands of other people are telling you Ice Zombies are coming than it means they probably are coming.Why would they lie?And she knows magic exists at this point.She saw a giant,there were plenty of witnesses that Jon was resurrected and by the point season 7 starts Dany will be common knowledge.I would totally believe it.I mean you are right.They will probably play it that way I am just not very sympathetic to her line of thinking.
Wimsey:
It wouldn’t be only Jon’s word about the danger posed by the White Walkers. It would also be the word of all the members of the Night’s Watch who have seen them and/or the wights, along with hundreds (if not thousands) of surviving Free Folk. Jon could easily tell her, Look, if you don’t believe me, you can ask x, x, and x. Healthy suspension of belief would be one thing; refusing to believe the word of countless people with firsthand experience would be quite another. Not to mention, Jon literally lost his life over his decision to bring the Free Folk south to settle The Gift… in the face of a “perceived” threat so great that he believed their mortal enemies of thousands of years were needed to combat it. Putting all of that aside to continue believing that the greatest threat is still in the south would indeed, in my opinion, be obtuse.
Jenny:
Excellent points all.
Sorry, I was unclear. My argument was that Aemon might have wondered if or even suspected J=R+L for all the same reasons that we did. This is, after all, one of those rare cases where characters in the book or on the show knew pretty much as much as we do. Moreover, my point was that it was always a parsimony argument all along: we never had any sort of unique “If R+L=J, then XXX” detail in the books or on the show. It was always a simplicity argument: R+L=J fit in with everything we knew without adding anything.
The idea that Aemon did not know is more of a probabilistic argument: if Aemon had suspected J=R+L (and all he could have done was suspect), then he probably would have let this be known. There is the second issue: did Aemon know more about R+L than we do. This would certainly be possible. As I noted, this is a separate issue from knowing or suspecting that J=R+L. After all, everybody knew that Rhaegar was doing things to Lyanna that result in babies. And Aemon might have been the one in initial possession of whatever documentation existed proving R+L=legal. Again, that’s just a conjecture: but if such documentation does exist, then this is one of the least complicated scenarios. (Again, for all we know, R+L=not legal, too: our reasons for suspecting R+L=legal have more to do with story than with plot.)
It would not be that Sansa thinks that Jon is lying. It would be that as Sansa has not witnessed the Walkers first-hand, she would not appreciate what the Walkers mean. We already saw this happen with the Night’s Watch: they actually had some experience with Walkers and their agents, and yet they still perceived the Wildlings to be the greater threat. Familiarity breeds more than contempt, and unfamiliarity breeds underestimation. And familiarity with an enemy often breeds the view that nothing can be worse than that enemy.
Here is a simple example from the real world. Old Israelis used to argue about who was worse, Hitler or Stalin: if they were from places where Hitler held sway, then they argued it was Hitler; if they were from places where Stalin held sway, then it was Stalin. Both knew empirically what happened in the other place: but it was the “evil” that they experienced that they thought was the worse, and it was because the other side had not experienced that evil first-hand that explained why they disagreed with you. (Objectively, the answer almost certainly is “Hitler”: but someone experiencing Stalin first hand might have a hard time thinking that anything could be worse than that.)
As for the fact that Sansa has witnessed magic, that probably is a side-point. Nobody disputed that magic exists and that some people could still practice it. Magic is considered to be a rarity, not a fairy tale. Nobody disputes that giants once existed: it was pretty well-known that they had. Giants are considered to be extinct, not a fairy tale. Moreover, using those as evidence that Walkers are real or that stories about them is real is like using the fact that Kraken exist as evidence that the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot exist! The Walkers are supposed to be long, long gone or possibly never there at all: they are not supposed to have been around recently or still present in some parts of the world the way that Giants and magic are/were.
First, don’t forget that in the books he had arranged for the girls to leave. Rather than lose her beloved Joffrey, future queenship, and beautiful blond baby chances, Sansa went and told Cersei of the plan. Cersei immediately sprang into action: Sansa became a pampered hostage and Arya became hunted. When Arya gazed at the ship, she smelled a rat and fled back into the streets. IIRC, the people Ned had chosen to protect and accompany the girls were slaughtered. So because D&D omitted this important development during the climactic episodes of S1, three major characters are distorted: Show Ned and Arya appear less clever and Show Sansa and Cersei appear less selfish/treacherous.
Arguably, Ned did (inadvertently) accomplish something. Arya told Tywin Ned had died for ‘loyalty’. His actions were for his daughters. He ‘confessed’ , but it was so blatantly false that the nobility all saw it for what it was and despised Joffrey and Cersei for reneging on the deal. Also, because of the confession and mock execution that became real, Ned spotted Yoren, who would likely be a good protector and return Arya safely to her family and Winterfell. Since Cersei was truly shocked at Joffrey’s action (only Littlefinger wasn’t shocked!), she probably treated Sansa more kindly than she would have if Ned had just been shipped off to Castle Black as planned. Cersei was also aware that Sansa had cooperated in preserving the charade of the whole scheme. To some extent, Cersei was Sansa’s bulwark against the worst extremities of Joffrey’s behaviour.
Wimsey,
I still would be more scared of supernatural beings but I fully get your point.Poor Jon.I wish the camera had been invented in Westeros.It would make his job so much easier.Even though knowing his luck they would probably accuse him of photoshop lol.
Wimsey:
True, but that was before Hardhome. I cannot imagine a single member of the Night’s Watch who survived it failing to understand what the scope of the threat was, and by this point any member of the NW who does not believe the word of hundreds of surviving NW members and Free Folk is as obtuse as Sansa. There is no “vast conspiracy.”
Don’t go there, Wolfish. Don’t go there.
“White Walkers??? FAKE NEWS!!!”
You went there. Bad wolf! BAD!
In the real world, for every time that works, it fails to work multiple times. (For example, just look at the climate change “debate.”) Moreover, sure, Wildlings and NW members think that these things are bad: but have any of them experienced the Lannisters? Humans will always think that they danger they know is greater than the danger of which they have only been told.
HBO may be on vacation this coming week as well so we might not get anything until thr 10th, which is just 6 days from the premiere.
I like the idea that Aemon knew a hell of a lot more than he let on. I especially like that Rhaegar could have been communicating with him too. Heck, Aemon may have even known the whole story of Bloodraven’s mysterious journey to become the root of the weirnet.
I hope Aemon used a raven or two to convey some things to the Citadel. As you know, in AFfC he was trying to get to the Citadel before he sadly perished. Had he made it, he would have attempted to supplement many of the Citadel library’s books with his knowledge of the past 80 years or so. How much did he inform the Citadel of Wall-related activities? If he did elaborate, Sam will come across that info this season, I hope, in addition to the ancient stuff.
Except that we saw that the Nationalists were still prominent enough to assassinate Jon. What it probably came down to was the Nationalists simply talking themselves into believing that the survivors were all exaggerating what had happened and that they were planning this with the Wildlings. Moreover, keep in mind that it does not seem that there were many members of the Watch who saw and survived this. Those that did, were known to be friends of and supporters of Jon. To explain their actions, we basically have to accept that they convinced themselves that there was a vast conspiracy.
But, again, that is human nature. The Wilding threat is known. The White Walker threat is not. Ergo, the Wilding threat must be greater because… um… er…. it is, dammit!
The other things that we have to remember is: how much credibility do we expect NW members to have with other people? They are, after all, generally an unsavory lot. We know the credibility that Wildlings have: that and 10 crowns will get you a cup of Lannisterbucks coffee (5 for the coffee, + 5 for being a Wildling).
Again, the show might not go anywhere in this direction. However, we should not be surprised if they do. Humans are not logical creatures: and we should not expect them to be. Moreover, humans are illogical and irrational in predictable ways: and not only have the show & books have set up realistic ways for human irrationalism to cause problems here, both show & books have taken advantage of this in the past. Now, some people here screamed “plot hole”: but real history has plenty of examples of this, so it really cannot be. (Stories can have plotholes, but history cannot.)
Alba Stark,
I know it seems like a frivolous detail: was Ned’s intent to have Yoren shield Arya from witnessing a gruesome spectacle; prevent Arya from frantically rushing the stage; or something else?
Sorry to say, the answer is relevant to another one of my tinfoil theories. If the scene was deliberately ambiguous, there goes that.
In the books, don’t we know that
Most of this has not come up on the show: but it also was not yet relevant.
Again, part of this is predicated on the idea that R+L=legal. They might not have been, which obviates all of this. But if they were, then we need a simple and believable way for someone to discover this. This would be both.
(I oscillate as to whether I suspect that R+L=legal; it would add a layer of “damned if you do, damned if you do not” and that really is the primary reason I think that it might happen.)
Absolutely…they did converse via raven. Where are those damn paper messages stored??? Were they all burned? Such a loss…
(quite enjoying the above convo about this, btw)
There you are! I was going to mention that I was pretty sure this was your gravatar! Cracks me up every time. 😁
I have a nagging feeling that Wimsey would be able to convince me that 2+2=5 if he wanted. I might even develop an interest in paleozoic molluscs!
Never change. It’s a blast reading your posts.
That is very true. However, I always had the impression that the mutineers’ opinion was slightly more subtle than straight-up visceral prejudice against the Free Folk and lack of understanding of the threat presented by the White Walkers.
To me, it seemed that even if the Night’s Watch brothers had all been perfectly aware of the exact nature and intensity of the Others’ menace, they still would have been extremely reluctant to let the Free Folk live south of the Wall. Not solely out of hatred for their Northern neighbours but also (and perhaps even more so) out of fear the Wildlings would weaken the North in its fight against “the Storm”.
After all, the Night’s Watch had received little to no reassurance that, once in Westeros, the Free Folk would no longer attack, pillage and murder villagers. So, in the brothers’ eyes, allowing the Wildlings south might simply have meant spending an inordinate amount of time fighting the Free Folk “at home” instead of focusing on preparation for the Great War. I would be tempted to guess many of them would therefore have been led to think : “might as well save our energy, dedicate all our efforts and resources on preparation and be better equipped when comes the time to fight the Wildlings-turned-Wights”.
The same logic could apply to a potential deal with the Lannisters. The North could doubt the Lions’ ability or sincere desire to help in the Great War, thus preferring to dispatch them as quickly as possible or ignore them all together so as not to waste whatever scarce time and resources Northerners have forging an alliance they do not truly believe will be beneficial…
As for Jon’s KitN scene, while it was glorious in that we got to see the White Wolf receive approbation and support on a large scale, it was also permeated by a very thick sense of foreboding, wasn’t it ? Even the colour palette was quite dour and sinister…
There are many reasons why Jon should be named King in the North : his dutiful (to a point 😛 ) service to the Night’s Watch, his ability to see beyond his own prejudice and appreciate the Free Folk’s qualities both as warriors and as people, his willingness to understand and prioritise the biggest threat lurking north of the Wall, etc. Yet, none of these was mentioned in Lyanna Mormont’s speech !
She slalomed between all the things we, the audience, know make Jon a perfectly sound candidate for the crown and instead argued he should be King because Ned Stark’s blood runs through his veins and he avenged the Red Wedding. However, it so happens that it does not and he did not. Jon is not Ned’s son (from a purely technical standpoing, he is not even a Stark) and the Red Wedding was avenged by Tyrion, Arya and Ramsay (of all people).
The disconnect between what we, the viewers, know to be the truth and Lyanna’s argumentation is so on the nose, it is almost comical. We are bordering on a case of mistaken identity. And I struggle not to see this as a setup.
The Northern lords, en masse, may be glorified extras but Lady Mormont, who operates as their representative, is not. So, while the writers may not focus on each lord’s individual reaction to Jon’s true lineage or policy ideas, they might dedicate some screentime to the Bear Cub’s take on it all and her opinion will, I believe, stand for all her fellow nobles’. If she becomes disillusioned with Jon, the rest of the nobility will be too.
Pigeon,
Haha me too! 🙂 I should make a shirt of that image.
I’ve been slightly trying to avoid delving into the site this pre-season. My efforts are not working out too well. XD
I didn’t catch the Tyrion / Dragons scene on the list. Did it make the top 40? One of the best from Season 6, shy of John getting named KITN by Lyanna Mormont
#42
I quite agree and I’m going to hire you as my advocate for my KitN comments above. 🙂 However, as others indicated, is there enough time in the celluloid version of the tale to have this fully play out? Possible wavering of the northern lords due to LF/Sansa ambitions and/or the discovery of Jon’s lineage may be be quite interesting but will it have any meaning whatsoever as everyone reacts to the dead winter’s blitzkrieg?
(…maybe the blitzkrieg is misunderstood as well…? Go Bran! Go Sam! Dream and read!)
ACME,
I mean tbh Lyanna is a little more than a glorified extra herself but anyway she pledged her men to Jon’s cause because of Davos’ speech in which he talked of the threat of the White Walkers and how Jon was the best man to lead them.Not because he was Ned’s son.So I don’t see why she would change her mind in that regard?In any case what would be the point to see the north betray Jon in season 8?Been there done that.Twice.
Wimsey,
Besides self-deception, the other aspects of human nature in play (still alive and well today) are ingrained enmities that compel some people to ignore their own self-interests so long as they can keep stickin’ it to “those other” people.
Jf’s why jerkoffs like Thorne surely knew there was an imminent existentialist threat, but keeping the wildlings out was more important to them than their own survival.
But the same scene was playing out among the Wildlings, in “Hardhome”, in particular the Thenns. The WW threat was real and undeniable, but they still couldn’t get past their prejudices. Laboda, the Thenn counterpart of Thorne, pointed to Jon and declared: “That is our enemy. That has always been our enemy.”
I excerpted parts of the Jon-Tormund-Chieftans scene below. Like the NW, some Wildlings realize they need the “courage to make peace” with their sworn enemies as a matter of survival. Some can’t.
(The irony is that five minutes after rejecting “King Crow”, Laboda is fighting side by side with him.)
————-
Excerpts:
5×8 Hardhome: “King Crow” Jon Snow, Tormund, & Wildling Chieftans
****
(Tormund, talking about Jon)
Tormund: What he did took courage. And that’s what we need today, the courage to make peace with men we’ve been killing for generations.
****
Karsi: I’ll never trust a man in black. But I trust you, Tormund. If you say this is the way, we’re with you.
Tormund: This is the way.
Elder: I’m with Tormund. We stay here, we’re dead men. At least with King Crow, there’s a chance.
***
Laboda (Thenn): Keep that new life you want to give us. And keep your glass, King Crow. As soon as you get on his ships, they’re gonna slit your throats and dump your bodies to the bottom of the Shivering Sea. That’s our enemy. That has always been our enemy.
Karsi: I fucking hate Thenns.
_________________
PS. “King Crow Jon Snow” has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? If he ever does long-winded Daeny-style intros, he should include that in the formal recital of his titles.
This nonsense again? The season premier has never been in the middle of July before has it? Both the US and Canada are in major holiday mode right now so makes no sense at all for HBO to follow the same promo schedule here that they did when the premier was in April.
You and Aguero trying to drum up negativity in every single thread here is getting pretty old. Enough.
ACME,
Ten Bears,
Excellent comments both, as always.
In regards to Sansa, I suppose I should have added the Battle of the Bastards to Hardhome. You’re correct (as is Wimsey) in asserting that, of the few NW survivors of the latter, all are known to be Jon loyalists. However, following the Wildlings’ enormous sacrifice at the BotB (including the life of the last giant), I cannot imagine that their perception of the monumental threat (so monumental that they’re willing to die for Winterfell, ffs) would go unnoticed or unquestioned by anyone with half a brain.
I know, I know, Wimsey: Certain people won’t take the threat of environmental destruction seriously until “the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten, and the last stream poisoned… [then they] will realize that you cannot eat money.” We’re an obstinate and self-destructive lot.
Ten Bears:
I think it was deliberately ambiguous. Ned seeing Arya was for the viewers; it’s not in the book. In the book Yoren does find her and shield her from witnessing the execution (and when Needle goes flying, retrieves it to boot), but she’s so grief-stricken and panicked that even though she recognizes him, it doesn’t immediately register that he’s actually there to help her. D&D softened the scene considerably to add another dimension of emotional heft to it—Arya taking comfort from Yoren.
I think that there are two issues here that we should not confound: does Sansa think that the Jon & the Wildlings are lying, and does she think what they are saying is true. I agree that Sansa would be foolish to believe that the Wildlings are nothing but the murderous reavers of the stories. She’s seen that they have valor and honor of a sort. And to that end, she probably will accept that the Jon & the Wildlings think that White Walkers are coming for them all. So, the issue will not be whether Sansa thinks that they all are lying: the issue will be whether she thinks that they are correct. We should understand if she does not.
heh, he should! But, yeah, that’s a good reminder: the Wildlings had first hand experience with the Walkers beyond that of the NW, and there were still Wildlings who considered the NW just as big of an enemy.
The big wild card here is that we are dealing not just with “emotion” so much as passion. When people fail to grasp our passions, we have a bad habit of dismissing them as foolish or as ignorant: after all, if you had the experiences with the Lannisters that I had, then you would know about what I am talking! It is a rare person who can step back and say: “Wait: I haven’t had the first-hand experience with their enemy, either.” After all, passion is involved: and one could argue that if you let yourself cool down enough to try to consider someone else’s passion, then you have to surrender your own passions.
(And as TV viewers and/or book readers, we have to remember that we’ve experienced everything, whereas the characters have experienced very little!)
Again, I am not trying to assert that Sansa is going to go to war with Jon over who to fight next. I am asserting that the show has set up the possibility of Sansa deciding that the Lannisters, not the Walkers, are the real threat, and that the Starks need to focus on protecting themselves from the enemy to the South, not to the North. We have to remember: Sansa did not see Hardhome or anything else that we’ve seen. Yes, she probably has heard about it: but that’s not the same thing. And, on the other end, Jon wasn’t in Kings Landing. Yes, he has heard about it: but that’s not the same thing.
One thing that we need to consider as well is thatwe have the potential for two other Starks to enter this fray. Arya probably is heading north. She, too, has bad first-hand experiences with the Lannister’s: but absolutely no experiences with the White Walkers. If she is present and has a voice, then it will be to defend against the South. Then there is Bran. OK, he’s had bad experiences with the Lannisters (which he might or might not remember at this point), but nothing like he has had with the Walkers.
If we do get all four Stark survivors together, then Bran’s voice might have a big impact on things because he will be a totally independent summary of the Walkers. A big part will depend on how seriously “HI, I’m a Tree God!” claim is received. After all, it does not seem that Tree Gods can actually do anything very god-like, and anybody can roll their eyes.
Of course, Arya might just put on Jon, Bran & Sansa masks and cast four “Let’s kill Lannister” votes! 😀
She is the face and voice of the North, that is for certain. The rest of them are basically a Greek Chorus!
The issue is not really about betrayal so much as it is about choosing battles. Let’s suppose that the Northerners do accept Jon’s claim that there is an enemy north of the Wall. That means that the Northerners now accept that there is an enemy to the north, and an enemy to the south. Only idiots fight wars on two fronts (although the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts: but that’s another story!). So, on which front do they prepare to fight?
Moreover, there is the Wall. It is still unbreached, still supposedly unbreachable, and whatever the “White Walkers” really are, it should be keeping them out. So, if you have enemies to the north and to the south, but you supposedly have a defense against the one in the north, then we should not be surprised if people opt to focus on the enemy to the south first.
One other issue that is going to play a huge role here is: what is the story this year? If we knew the story, then we’d know the “Do I do X not Y or Y not X?” dilemma that recurs this year. Whatever happens between the Stark siblings (Sansa & Jon, definitely, but possibly including Arya & Bran) is going to be a huge part of that story. If this is about choosing battles, then we should expect to see dissension over which enemy is the bigger threat: and this is an issue where we just cannot expect Jon and Sansa (or Jon and Arya, or Bran and Sansa or Bran and Arya) to agree given their personal experiences.
(Yes, I have fallen in love, or at last hold a strong infatuation for, the idea that this year’s story is about conflicted rankings of conflicts! 😀 )
And yet, when the time to argue in favour of Jon’s coronation came, she never mentioned the White Walkers. She even cut off his efforts to allude to the “real enemy” to talk about Ned, the Starks, the North’s alleged memory and the Red Wedding. Which is why her KitN speech was delightfully hypocritical 😉
But you are entirely right. Lyanna was swayed by Davos’s argument. However, just because she agrees that White Walkers have to be fought does not necessarily mean she will support whichever strategy is chosen to fight them. Two characters can share a common goal but diverge widely in the methods they see fit to reach said goal. The Stannis/Davos conflict in regards to Gendry was a perfect example of that, I believe.
As for Lyanna being a glorified extra, she may be so however her symbolic range and significance goes beyond her own self. The KitN scene affirmed her position as “representative of the Northern nobility”, alongside Lord Glover, to a lesser degree. Just like Lord Royce is the embodiment of all the Knights of the Vale and Tormund is the Free Folk’s spokesperson.
She is the writers’ narrative shortcut, so to speak : since they cannot devote much time to the intrincacies of the Northern lords’ individual behaviours, feelings and opinions, they focus of the baby bear. If she is happy, it means the Northern lords are happy; if she is not, neither are they. This way, the political struggles within the North can be efficiently represented via Lyanna’s (and possibly Lord Glover’s) interpersonal conflicts with the region’s leadership.
If/when discord arises between Jon and Lyanna, I think we should all brace ourselves.
“Betray” is a very loaded word, as I have learnt at my expense ^^
I do not, for a second, envision a new “for the watch” moment. Nevertheless I can perfectly imagine a meaningful conflict between Jon and his lords over the best course of action to take.
War, no matter how Great, is never apolitical. It cannot be. Who gets to lead what, who has the authority to make what choice, who is in charge of whom, what resources go where, etc. All those questions, and their answers, are intensely political.
Therefore, the idea that the new Battle for the Dawn will somehow supersede and erase any political concern or dynamics currently operative in Westeros seems, to me, unfeasible.
Some of this attachment to “ordinary” politics will stem from stubbornness, as Ten Bears, Wimsey and Wolish excellently pointed out; some of it will be structural and entirely justified.
As of right now, no one has a sound and comprehensive plan to defeat the White Walkers, not even Jon. Bran and Sam will obviously play a crucial role in this regard. However, several people provided with the same information can, in good faith, reach entirely different conclusions as to what needs to be done and by whom.
Choosing which plan to put into action and the war effort’s leader(s) will and can only be a fundamentally political process, I believe.
In the sixth season’s last couple of episodes, the writers very intently set up the following elements :
– the Northern lords declaring their region’s independence;
– Daenerys stating on multiple occasions, including twice in the same sentence, that she intends to rule over the Seven Kingdoms;
– the Northern lords going all gung-ho over a speech that identified Jon as Ned’s son and the avenger of the Red Wedding;
– Jon’s real lineage being confirmed;
– Davos and Tormund’s conversation about Jon’s appeal residing in his non-monarchical status;
– the single most stubborn individual in the world taking the Iron Throne;
– Tyrion, whose greatest strength has always been his pragmatic and critical approach of politics, becoming a “believer”.
I struggle to believe all those notions will not come into play later, including in the definition of the Great War’s battle plan.
Very true. The show has above all set Cersei up as Sansa’s most immediate threat.
I cannot help but remember Jaime telling Brienne at Riverrun, à propos of nothing, that his sister still very much wants Sansa’s head on a spike. It was so out of the blue, so fundamentally random in the conversation, that I couldn’t help but giggle and think “Thank you, Lord Forshadowing of House Backstory, Warden of the Exposition ! Your work here is done !”
I don’t believe that Sansa would discount Jon’s words and experiences, backed by the faith Davos has in him, the agreement of hundreds of others who have seen and fought the WW and wights first hand, and the backing of the Lords of the North. Particularly after another fairy tale creature, a giant, fought alongside Jon in full view of her, very much real.
If course, she doesn’t put much stock in Davos as we’ve seen, and has LF weaving his persistent web (do we have any indication of whether he buys the threat?). She may well not be able to put aside her rage against the humans that have hurt her for the non-humans she hasn’t seen yet, even for the greater good.
Personally if I was Sansa I’d have locked myself in a tower or something for a year from trauma. I’ll wait until D & D explain what they mean for her to think/feel, since what I interpret onscreen never seems to match up with it.
Wimsey,
Ha ha! “Hi, I’m a Tree God.” That’ll get you instant credibility. 🤓
Or, “hey, remember Old Nan’s scary stories? Turns out they’re all true!! And I ran into Uncle Benjen; he’s a half-zombie now but otherwise he’s lookin’ good. And did I tell you I went back in time and visited Dad?”
Maester: “Are you off your meds again?”
Last I knew, Moat Cailin had never been successfully taken from the south, so they’ve got a good defensive position in both the north and south. Sure, it would certainly make sense to post a garrison there to make sure it isn’t taken in a surprise attack again (as the Ironborn did), but I think they probably know that Cersei has a bunch of other enemies distracting her at the moment, whereas the White Walkers seem to have no other enemies remaining north of the wall to keep them busy. Once Meera and Bran make it back with news from north of the wall, that will add more evidence that the northern threat is the most important one.
Strategically, the smart thing in my opinion would be to make sure Moat Cailin was reasonably secure, and maybe have Meera request some assistance from her father, since the Reeds know the terrain well, and would probably be the best countermeasure against people trying to sneak around Moat Cailin through the swamps. At that point, just focus mainly on the northern threat and let Cersei fight it out with her other enemies.
It would make no sense from Cersei’s perspective to send a large force to the remote north through a swamp with one good road that passes through a well-defended stronghold to attack an enemy that is not actively attacking her, when most of her enemies are closer to home, and posing an actual threat to her. Cersei may not always behave rationally, but even she is probably sensible enough to know that this is a horrible idea (and in fact, her awareness of the badness of the idea is why she let Littlefinger take the knights of the Vale north back in season 5).
Assuming she learns that Littlefinger has betrayed her, she’ll be enraged certainly, but if it was obviously a bad idea to attack the North while Stannis & the Boltons were getting ready to fight each other, it would be a doubly bad idea now that the North has unified, and the knights of the Vale have joined them, and Winter is here.
If Cersei gets any news at all, it will likely be that Jon Snow has been declared King in the North, and is at Winterfell with Sansa, and since she doesn’t believe in the White Walkers, she might not realize how distracted they are by the other threat. If she had any sense at all, she’d likely hope the North is too busy preparing for Winter to attack her while she’s dealing with her nearer enemies. For this reason, it would probably make sense for the North to just play defensively against the Lannisters, and focus their attention on the Walkers.
As far as I can see, the only sensible offensive moves the North could make against Cersei would be possibly to send Arya to make as assassination attempt (assuming she doesn’t take the initiative to do so on her own), or sending a few people to coordinate with Tully loyalists in the Riverlands (maybe led by Edmure, if Arya let him out of the dungeons at the Twins), to try to disrupt Cersei’s food supplies.
King’s Landing gets most of its food from the Riverlands and the Reach, but their alliance with the Tyrells just got incinerated, and their primary minion in the Riverlands just got his throat slit, so Cersei is about to get into a multi-front war while dealing with a horrible supply and logistics nightmare.
It really makes no strategic sense for either Cersei or the North to make direct military attacks against each other right now. Both are in good defensive positions, but relatively poor offensive positions. For Cersei, the sensible thing would be to secure a stable food supply by either solidifying her hold on the Riverlands, or trying to take the Reach, both of which have relatively poor defenses.
Of course, once Daenerys shows up, the strategic situation changes.
For Cersei, the change is: “Oh shit, this queen with a big army, navy and three big dragons really wants the chair I’m sitting in right now. I think I need to do something about that right away”. Cersei and Daenerys both want the same throne, so it will be very hard for them to be anything but bitter enemies. The risk of aerial dragon attacks on already vulnerable supply lines makes the situation even worse.
For Jon, the new situation is much better. Sure, Daenerys will likely demand that he bend the knee, but his Stark ancestor did the same the last time the Targaryens took Westeros, so it would just be a return to the status quo of recent history, which had been working pretty well for the Starks for several centuries. If the choice is to kneel and have dragons on his side against the white walkers, or be stubbornly proud and have to fight white walkers and dragons at the same time, I think it would be a pretty easy choice for Jon to make.
I could easily see Jon being willing to pledge allegiance to Daenerys if she promises to help defend the Seven Kingdoms from the white walkers. He’s clearly looking for allies anywhere he can find them, and is willing to form alliances with his traditional enemies to survive. He also knows Tyrion, and they parted on good terms. The fact that Tyrion has sided with Daenerys rather than Cersei, and the fact that he was kind to Sansa might also help Jon believe that Tyrion and Daenerys would be better to have as allies than as enemies.
I’m surprised the 7.01 title hasn’t been leaked yet.
Casso,
If Littlefinger still has his “logic armor”, he’ll feed Cersei some story like “Everything is going according to plan, just like we discussed – even better! The Boltons and Stannis squared off, and Stannis got wiped out. I watched from the sidines as the remainder of the Bolton forces decimated a rag tag army of Starks and assorted losers, then charged in at the last minute and got rid of the Boltons. I’m in position to take over the North as we speak. See? My plan worked. “
I planned to read through the entire list again, jot down the scenes I thought should have been dropped and added the ones that were better. Thing is, as I went through each scene, not only did I remember liking these scenes, but I realized why they were selected – they were a major part of a character’s development, or the plot turned on event. So …instead, I am going to list the ones that, while I acknowledge their inclusion, wish to replace them with others. Does this make sense? Anyway, here we go:
85 Catelyn arrests Tyrion
83 – Tyrion sends Janos to the Wall
78 Maester Cressen tries to poison Melisandre
35 or 36 Brienne and Jamie – pick one not both
33 Birth of Shadow Baby
13 Golden crown for a King
In place of these, I would have included any of these:
KITN
Broken Man
Theon at Moat Caitlin
Ned Watches Arya at her first ‘dance’ lesson
Lady Crane caring for Arya
Cersies coronation
Jon final conversation with Mance
Just sayin 🙂
Ten Bears,
Ha! Yeah that would be an interesting conversation, esp coming from the youngest child (I speak from experience; most of the time what I said was usually ignored)
ash,
Sorry I just realized I did this in the middle of a discussion, a very good one as a matter of fact. My faux pas.
ash,
What is needed is a “Best 201 Game of Thrones scenes” list…
Game of Thrones is incredibly incredible because all the characters are so good and unique… Every scene in every episode is entertaining and important to shape the character’s personality and keep the story moving. The Dialog is brilliantly written. I think some of scenes in the six seasons we’ve watched will have even more meaning after the Season 8 finale is finished. Like some of the conversations between Tyrion and Daenerys… conversations between Jamie and Cersei. Tywin and Tyrion… Littlefinger and Sansa… Jaqen H’ghar and Arya… Tyrion and Varys
Season 7 is Less than 2 weeks away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ten Bears,
The funny thing is that if Littlefinger can control news getting out of the North, that lie might even work. I can just imagine his letter to Cersei. “Everything went according to plan, but we’re a bit snowed in here at the moment. Don’t worry, I’ll keep Sansa’s head on ice and bring it to you in the Spring to decorate your wall spikes. Please send royal decree naming me Warden of the North.” ::smirk::
Ten Bears,
As it happened, I watched a repeat of ‘Hardhome’ a couple of hours ago on Sky Atlantic.
I had to chuckle when Karsi said: “I fucking hate Thenns!” The same line as Tormond said back a few seasons ago when Ygritte was still around and making arrows in preparation for the attack on Castle Black.
It didn’t take much to convince Laboda the Thenn to realize what Jon Snow said was true and the real enemy was not the Crows but the WW and their horde of wights. I liked the bit when it all went quiet behind the stockade and Laboda crept up to take a look and a wight came running through the mist up to the wall and he almost ended up with a spear in his head! The first time I saw that scene it made me jump 🙂
Hardhome IMHO was certainly one of the best episodes to date with its SFX and CGI. It will be interesting to see how much greater or enhanced that will be when Jon Snow and his forces face off against the WW in S7.
Wolfish,
Well thank you!! I greatly appreciate that – writing these was a ton of fun. Glad you’re enjoying! 🙂
What a bunch of standouts!
20. Painful discovery of weapon of mass destruction #2.
19. This scene is the reason I am here.
18. I was never a fan of the Viper in the books, but Pedro Pascal made me care for him, so seeing the gruesome way he went was so painful.
17. I wailed along with Bran and Rickon. Damn Theon!
16. I have never been a Daenerys fan, mostly for her annoying development during season 2 and part of the 3rd. But this moment was awsome.
15. Oh, Hardhome, Hardhome. I still feel the chill. Miguel Sapochnik became my instant hero after this. Discovery of weapon of mass destruction #3. Doom is served…
14. The waiting was soooo long that I just said, let’s move on…
13. Definitely this show brings out the worst in me, but I found this so satisfactory…
12. The fight between Brienne and the Hound was so brutal and painful to watch. Loved Rory McGann’s acting in this one.
11. Jaimie’s breakdown was a definite perception changer.
10. Incest discovery + violence against a child = this is not your regular fantasy series.
9. @##! those who leaked the pictures of this scene. They ruined the emotional moment for me.
8. Purple wedding: Yaaaaasssss!
7. For a few minutes, I empathized with Cersei and her situation. As much as I would like to punch her in the face. I did not enjoy her humiliation.
6. With the cut from the baby’s face to Jon’s I was fist-pumping all the way.
5. I cried like a baby with Hodor’s death.
4. Another masterpiece!
3. After this episode ended I went and bought the five books and read them all between the first and second seasons.
2. I remember some of the reaction videos that followed this episode. The shock, the heartfelt… It was hilarious! Made me feel part of the famdom.
1. I knew what was coming, so I thought I was inoculated against the shock… But no, the minute someone stabbed Talisa in the belly I watched in horror the whole scene. What I remember the most was the fade to black and silence at the end… I always turn to social media after each episode to see the HBO materials and read reviews… But after this scene, I crawled into bed and would not move or speak for a long time.
Thanks for this list. I definitely helped pass these final days before S7.
Really bizarre. This is the latest we’ve gone without the premiere title. TV guides are updated 2 weeks in advance and it still says 7-1 TBA
Jack Bauer 24,
Why is the title important? Shouldn’t we be focusing on significant things, like Sansa’s wig? 😏
The title just makes it official. Seems like they are holding it back because there’s something wrong.
Ten Bears,
Hahaha 😀 😀 😀
Yep, our Jack Bauer 24 has really got hyped up over what the episode titles will be. Personally I don’t give a shit (or a flying fuck for that matter) and will take them as they come 😉
From what I recall when WoTW ran a competition to see who could come up with the episode titles of S6, the ONLY ones which a few readers guessed correctly was BATTLE OF THE BASTARDS and THE WINTERS OF WINTER. No one considered that the S6E1 would be called the RED WOMAN?
I would say without a monumental script leak or perhaps photos taken surreptitiously of clapper boards, its neigh on impossible. I doubt if that would help either as the clapper board just shows the season, episode and scene number and not the episode title. I’ll just ‘go with the flow’ and accept whatever HBO doles out.
The bottom line being its not worth losing any sleep over 😉
The Knights of the Vale were, without explanation, able to do that easily last season.
Weeks ago actually almost a month ago someone asked if we were doing title predictions again and Sue said no because of the leaks and because we should know the titles “any day now” so something went wrong.
Ash:
I was surprised by Tyrions actions with the masters as well – he had to have known that was going to blow up in his face, and he certainly is not naive and lacking experience.
Tyron was playing for time, and playing a very weak hand very well. He knew the Masters of Astaphor and Yunkai could not long tolerate a free city of Meereen, but he could at least get them to stop funding the Sons of the Harpy. (His dialog with Varys, Grey Worm, and Missandrei confirms the Sons of the Harpy stopped activities in Meereen after the pact Tyrion made with the Masters.) He was hoping Dany would return before the Masters acted overtly, and he was (just barely) correct.
Along the way, he got to instruct two of Dany’s closest advisors that politics is the art of compromise — a lesson Dany herself has learned slowly and painfully.
(Also, if you noticed, he seems to have made good on Varys’ deal to get a certain lady out of Meereen before the hostilities commenced.)
Jack Bauer 24,
I heard from an inside source that the single VHS tape which contained all Season 7 material got unraveled. They’ll get it back together at some point, but right now there is an intern working 24/7 with a pencil and scotch tape to try to have it done on time.
Without anyone knowing! They are like bad-ass stealth ninjas that can fight in the Northern winter.
Casso,
I think the news of the Starks being in the power and Jon KITN will get spread around, like Cersei being the Queen of Westeros. To impact other storylines and influence the next moves for other characters. LF is not controlling the North or what is happening there. The Knights of Vale hailed Jon King in the North, much like the Riverlands lords Robb. He might try to weasel his way to Jon and Sansa, push them against each other.
Jack Bauer 24,
You’re just giving the title of the episode too much of an attention. When they’ll announce it, then they’ll do it. We know when the premiere is, presumably red carpet event. This is the most important thing. 😉
Hodors Bastard,
While Aemon maybe did had a better idea of what was going on, I don’t think to that extent of knowing. Rhaegar and Aemon frequently wrote letters to each other, Rhaegar might’ve asked him about it and some advice. Coming to conclusion that RLJ is a bit of stretch but the irony is that Aemon was blind. If he ever saw Jon with his own eyes, he would have guessed that he shares a lot of similarities wth Rhaegar in personality. It’s a mystery we’ll probably never know because Aemon is dead in both the bookr and the show.
There was no indication at all that they took Moat Cailin by force. I assume that the Bolton forces holding Moat Cailin allowed the Knights of the Vale in.
Roose had made an alliance with Littlefinger on the basis that Littlefinger had control of the Vale (“The Eyrie is mine. The last time the lords of the Eyrie formed an alliance with the lords of the North, they brought down the greatest dynasty this world has ever known.”).
The Bolton forces probably let them in as reinforcements in case Cersei decided to attack. It’s not clear whether they slaughtered the Bolton garrison soon after being let in, or if they maintained the pretense of being allies until they were ready to attack Ramsay.
In fact, for all we know, there may still be Bolton forces garrisoning Moat Cailin if Littlefinger told them he was going to Winterfell to reinforce Ramsay against the wildling army. We don’t really know how much news was reaching the soldiers at Moat Cailin. Most likely, Littlefinger killed them off before leaving though, to avoid needing to retake Moat Cailin later (though taking it from the north is easier than from the south).
The thing (apart from the obvious) that strikes me with Ned Starks beheading is for the only time you see Varys lose his cool as he realises the consequences for the realm, even Cersie realises Joffrey went too far.
Jack Bauer 24,
You really need to calm down, buddy.
This is unhealthy.
Television.. television… I think I’m not the only one who thinks of Game of Thrones as a few 10-hour long movies, split in chapters/episodes, rather than “television”. HBO stands for Home Box Office, after all. NCIS, CSI, these are “television”.
I think a term is needed for productions like this (or Rome, The Wire etc.) that are better than television, but still technically not films.
And then they imprisoned and tortured Littlefinger’s emissary until she fled the castle seeking revenge on them, so they would know that was kaput.
Mr Fixit,
In addition to the “No fire!” and “That’s where the heart is” scenes, another one of my top Undrafted Free Agents from Season 4 is “Your friend’s dead and Meryn Trant’s not, because Meryn Trant had armor and a big f*cking sword” aka “The greatest swordsman who ever lived didn’t have a sword? (chuckle)”
The Arya-Hound back and forth was great. As usual. And it’s another instance of The Hound teaching her “the way things are.”
My favorite part? (when he delivers the line “Your friend’s dead and Meryn Trant’s not….”) He says “Go on, show me what your Braavosi friend taught you”; she whirls and tries to stick him with Needle, but it’s stopped by his armor; he whacks her across the face, knocking her down; picks up Needle….and hands it right back to her.
There’s a tinfoilery part to that whole exchange (more on that later) but the whallop across the face reminded me of a scene in “Kingdom of Heaven” in which a new knight is anointed by instructing him to uphold certain virtues…and then whacking him across the face “so you don’t forget them.” [paraphrasing].
Oh, another thing: On my “mix tape” rewatch list, I’ve got this scene + Arya’s last session with Syrio + Arya pincushioning Trant in S5. Right after the part in this scene when Arya tells Sandor that “Syrio didn’t have a sword, or armor, only a stick” when he was killed by Meryn F. Trant, I cue up the Braavos brothel scene and there’s MFT with no sword or armor; only a stick. (I like the symmetry, whether it was intended or not.)
Damn… I could go on forever about this scene. The scenery, the choreography, the scripting….And it’s not because I’m a Sandor + Arya fanatic.
Casso,
About Qyburn and Gregor: Isn’t ZombieMountain essentially a synthetic wight? With a simple “obey Cersei” program installed?
The Night King should have no trouble hacking into him and reprogramming him.
[end FanFic]
Pigeon,
That VHS tape story is #FakeNews. In homage to GRRM’s love of obsolete word processors, D&D exclusively use and recommend Betamax video recording technology.
I love Arya & Sandor in season four – one of the scenes I thought important not mentioned before is the one in which they come across a dying man they grant mercy to. It really works as a contrast to the scene in 410 when she refuses that same mercy to Sandor, and is important in season five when Arya meets Ghita, the dying Braavosi girl in the HoBaW.
On the subject of Arya scenes missing from the list, there are four from season three I was surprised were all omitted.
1 – Arya discussing death with Beric and Thoros; the conversation in which she asks if they can bring back a man without a head and tells them “death” is her god.
2 – The scene in which Arya confronts Melisandre about Gendry.
3 – The scene in 310 post-Red Wedding in which Arya sticks soldiers laughing about Robb’s death with the pointy end.
4 – Most of all, I would have added in the scene in which Gendry tells Arya he intends to remain with the BwB and she says “I can be your family”.
Hodors Bastard,
I get it that Mel sensed something when she told Jon there’s “a power in you” (though arguably that was part of her standard lap dance/seduction script), and she had a weird look on her face when she glared at him through flames.
But the title of “Prince” is usually reserved for a royal heir. How would she know that he’s a secret prince? And not just any prince, but the heralded “Prince that was Promised”?
I’ll have to go back and see if I overlooked something….
Ten Bears,
Are you a book reader ? It’s a prophetic term, doesn’t necessarily mean an actual prince.
Wolfish,
Re: “Where the heart is.”
I liked that line of dialogue too, because of its many meanings. Sure, he’s showing Arya “that’s how you kill a man”, and it had an almost comic aftereffect a few minutes later when Arya kills Rorge with a swift Needle jab to the heart, prompting Sandor to praise his pupil: “You’re learning.”
I’m guessing that like me, this line stuck with you because of the way Sandor brought it up again in the S4 finale: “Remember where the heart is?”
He’s asking her to kill him…but it sounded like there were more layers underneath it. (Kind of hard to put into words; it just sounded so…sad and heartfelt.)
Wimsey,
Another Babylon 5 reference! Speaking of, I’m just starting my re-watch of that show!
Wolfish,
Semi-off topic related to that scene with the dying old man, Sandor, and Arya:
There was that odd philosophical exchange [paraphrasing] that begins when Arya asks, “So why go on?”…
“Nothing could be worse than this”; and the old man replies, “Maybe nothing IS worse than this.”
[Off-topic part starts here]
Anyway, a few months ago I’m preparing my morning cup of coffee, which I sweeten with “Equal” in the blue packets. For a while, the packets came with assorted corny slogans. I was getting ready to tear open a packet that had the slogan: “Nothing is Equal to Equal”, when I noticed printed right under it:
No. “Nothing is just nothing.” – Arya Stark
(Another packet had the stupid slogan, “Your Coffee is Calling”, and printed right below it, “but you refused the call.”)
Obviously, someone who knows I’m a fan decided to have a little fun with the Equal packets.
Huh, never noticed that! Seeing how D&D like to operate, I doubt it’s a coincidence. Good catch!
firstone,
ha! Yes indeed, but I totally agree with this:
It is an amazing show, as thousands upon thousand viewers have discovered. Which makes this exercise by the mods even that much more incredible…..
Pigeon,
LOL!
Alba Stark,
I got the feeling that she was thinking about Hound as she was giving the girl her drink. I think that was the point where she dropped him from her list.
Ten Bears,
Seriously? Love it – will have to stop buying sweet n low and get Equal instead!
Thank you to the team for this countdown. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it and No 1 and 2 would have been my choice too 👏
I do find it very surprising not to see the KITN scene with Jon in the list though. One of the most uplifting scenes I’ve witnessed on GOT by far. I was cheering along with the Northern lords…and the little lady 😍
Any reason for this exclusion? I’m not criticising, I’m just interested.
Yeah, as Markus mentioned above, TPtwP is purely a term from prophesy…and Mel’s been yammering on about it since S2. Although that “seeing Snow through the flames” moment was just a weird look in S4Ep10 for show-watchers, it was a fist-pumping ‘Yeah!’ moment for readers. Another check-the-box adaptation. 🙂
What is interesting is that Mel has been seeking TPtwP quite independently of the actual WW threat, which is what TPtwP (Azor Ahai) battled and pushed back north, with help of others, several millennia back. Her appearance is perfectly coincidental with the new uprising. A covert purpose? A covert identity?
Interesting that you mention the “seduction” part of her search for TPtwP. She is definitely sexually attracted to the power of her faith-based mythology combined with royalty. She wants to mount and be impaled by her current personification of TPtwP, to the point I believe she may have a NissaNissa complex (she was the mythical wife of AA who needed to be impaled through the heart to create Lightbringer). Essentially, she wants to be ‘impaled’ by the supposed TPthP’s ‘sword’. 🙂 I still chuckle at this (there are several fascinating blog threads about this elsewhere) but it makes sense.
But Mel’s faith failed/confused her with Stannis and she was rejected by Jon…who knows where/who she will look for inspiration next? We can guess…
Bufferzone,
Ha ha my wedding video is on Betamax. Haven’t seen it in 30years lol
Mr Fixit,
While it could be a coincidence, I like to think of it as Arya taking to heart one of the harsh lessons Sandor taught her: You can dance around all you want and be a great swordsman, but in the real world a crappy fighter with armor and a big sword can beat you.
So Arya refrained from approaching MFT in Braavos while he was in his KG costume. But when he didn’t have his armor or his big f*cking sword… well let’s just say a (fake) girl whore with pen knife could beat three Meryn Trants.
As great as Syrio was, Sandor taught her that if your opponent’s armored, you can’t pierce them or make the water leak out. I’d suggest that whallop across the face by Sandor impressed upon her that when fighting adversaries you can stick ’em with the pointy end, but if it doesn’t break the skin you’re screwed.
I know MFT’s death scene was a bit brutal. I didn’t mind the pools of blood. And I liked that she told him it was payback for killing Syrio Forel even MFT probably didn’t remember him. I wouldn’t have minded if Trant could’ve answered Arya’s questions instead of moaning, but I’m not complaining. And I’d rather watch an overlong death scene of a bad guy* rather than have it happen entirely off-camera (eg the Waif).
* [*prays that S7e1 episode title is “To Kill a Mockingbird” and consists of 60+ minutes of Littlefinger undergoing the Full Theon before Sandor goes medieval on him with a blowtorch and a pair of pliars.*]
Pieces of the cast’s press tour are starting to come out. There’s this piece on Buzzfeed, for instance:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/kimberleydadds/things-youve-always-wanted-to-know-about-the-game-of?bfsource=bbf_enus&utm_term=.edXrrbrBbx#.tcroodordq
Mostly trivia, but one person comes near to giving a casting spoiler at one point. It’s possible he was just talking about Ed Sheeran and isn’t aware how public that news is.
Hodors Bastard,
1. My show-only tinfoil theory is that AA (“Warrior of Light” in the show) and the Prince that was Promised are two different guys; their identities may have been conflated over the millenia (stories retold and passed down with embellishments and mutations along the way).
2. Are you saying there are fan theories that Jon Snow’s p*cker is Lightbringer? And Mel wanting to impale herself on it = “Nissa Nissa”?
That’s pretty wild. And I thought my tinfoil theories were out there.
Ten Bears,
1) Guys? I believe there will be an equal opportunity for both sexes to serve in this respect…AA really is a matter of interpretation
2) Lol…I only implied that Mel might have a NissaNissa complex. And yes, the fanfic theories are all over the place regarding AA/NN. 🙂
ash,
Aspartame/Nutrasweet (Equal; blue packets) isn’t as bitter as saccharine (Sweet ‘n Low; pink packets). I’m not a big fan of Sweet ‘n Low or that stuff in the yellow packets either (“Splenda”?).
I wish I didn’t have to consume chemical sweeteners; it’s just that fresh fruit isn’t sweet anymore. Strawberries, oranges, etc. all taste like styrofoam. Twenty years ago I could use fresh squeezed juice to sweeten anything.
O/T rant over.
New photos from HBO!!! Granted, only two… but all crumbs are welcomed, right?
https://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/ready-yourself-for-season-7-with-these-exclusive-photos
The Jon-Sansa reunion scene was ranked way too low. That scene represented the rebirth of the Stark family after 6 years of the world believing they were gone. Also, I can’t remember where or even if the scene in which Jon beats up Ramsey made this list, but that was also a very significant scene. Finally, while the red wedding was probably the right choice for #1, I think Dany sailing at the end of the season 6 finale should have been top 5 at a minimum, maybe #2, because it represented the culmination of 6 years of her story.
Wolfish,
I’ll take it, now how bout the ep 1 title?!?!?!?!?!
ash,
That’s why I had been selecting each character’s best “moments”, and trying to select a #1 for each.
Big action set pieces (deservedly) made it into the “Greatest 101”; yet, to me at least, it’s the aggregate effect of quieter character-defining moments and impressive individual performances that makes the show what it is.
For example, another poster recently mentioned Jorah’s brief scene when he refused to let Viserys steal Daeny’s dragon eggs. Just the way Ian G. delivered the line (I think), “Yet here I stand”, imprinted it on my mind. Now, that’s not going to make it into any “top 101” lists; still, it was memorable, and one of Jorah’s best scenes despite its brevity.
I found it odd that after I identified what I felt was a character’s “best” scene, it wasn’t what I expected, and wasn’t among the “101.”
Sean C.,
I feel like a complete idiot for never having thought of this. How the hell did the “Lord o’ the Lurk, Count o’ the Creep” (as Sue the Fury so memorably described him) get past the Boltons with tens of thousands of Vale troops? Hmmm…
Ten Bears,
LOL!!!
That’s really funny. I love subtle marketing like that… for obsessive-compulsive people like me, who actually do weird shite like read sugar packets. (I’m definitely a sugar-only person!)
Wolfish,
I remember several comments about it at the time. The Vale army would have had to ride pretty much right along the Kingsroad the entire way from near the Crossroads Inn, skirting close to The Twins, through The Neck and House Reed land just to get to Moat Cailin. Then travel the last several hundred miles from there to Winterfell without anyone noticing……. Just one of those things we’re not suppose to think too much about. 🙂
ash,
In the book she had inadvertently dropped him from her list the night before she abandoned him. I’m very firmly of the belief that she didn’t grant him mercy because deep down, she didn’t want him dead. Having hated him for so long, though (for Mycah), she didn’t know how to deal with her conflicting emotions. So she did what many (if not most) children would have done in the same situation: walked away from it.
Hodors Bastard,
How about Nissa Nissa being the mother who dies at childbirth, and Lightbringer being the child? It fits for Jon, Dany and Tyrion. Then Rhaegar, Aerys and Tywin were all Azor Ahai (never thought Tywin would have aimed for that)
It’s just sad now they refuse to release the premiere title. TV guide had it listed as TBA and they updated it today as Episode 1. Maybe they aren’t doing titles this year.
serum:
Um, I’ll get cracking on that for you right away. 😉
Clob,
(starts digging up maps in full freakazoid mode)
I doubt any ravens remain at Moat Cailin. It has been in disrepair since the ironborn were decimated. Ramsay could have pulled his forces north because of the pending conflict. In any case, the impression is that the Vale forces blew through without much resistance, imho.
The real question is who’s defending the Vale now? SweetRobin? Is it vulnerable now?
I like Clob‘s response as well.
Steve,
But you see, that’s why there can be no definitive “ranking.” Take, for example, the three scenes you feel should’ve been ranked higher:
• Jon-Sansa reunion: It was nice, but with no real set-up (no scenes together in S1) and the characters themselves discussing how Sansa was a bitch to Jon, it wasn’t what I’d call a “greatest” moment. Yet, I’m not disputing that’s how you perceived it. [Jon-Arya would’ve been different because of their scene with Needle in S1e2, and the frequent reminders thereafter, e.g., “my brother gave me that sword!” as she marches away from Sandor in S4e1; and tearing up while holding Needle on the Braavos dock].
• Jon bashing in Ramsay’s face: I guess it was a satisfying moment. But I don’t see why it could be considered underrated.
• Dany sailing at the end of S6e10: I’m not sure why you think it should’ve been ranked higher – “top 5 minimum, maybe even #2.” It was glorious. It was uplifting. It was beautiful to watch. The dragon wingtips skimming the water’s surface was icing on the cake. Fantastic concluding segment. Yet, I felt it was eclipsed by the awesomd Team Dany vs. Masters Armada opening segment of S6e9.
PS. In my view, Red Wedding was ranked 100 slots too high. But that’s the point: everybody’s got different sensibilities.
For most TV shows, we’d be debating the “101 Most Wretched” moments.
Yeah, that’s an especially poignant and fun one that could tie a lot of theories together! I like the Lightbringer metaphor too. I think folks are onto something with the multi-AA theories. However, the recent Jaime/Cersei one is also quite detailed and well-argued. AltShiftX has collected a few too.
Who knows where the book will lead us with Mel/Shireen/Jon at CB? Mel might not survive CB. She could still serve as NN.
I just got done reading a thread that indicates a more passive AA/NN theory, which implies that Jon’s rez & WF retake was the AA sequence and Mel’s banishment was the “sacrifice”. Then there is another with Dany as AA and Mel being her NN. Too much fun! 🙂
Wolfish,
Inability to deal with “conflicting
emotions” is right.
Here’s what “A Girl” told the Waif in S6e3 about Arya taking The Hound off her list:
Waif: “Tell me about the Hound.”
Arya: “Also dead. Arya Stark left him to die. He was on her list…[she hesitates; reconsiders]…He was not on her list anymore. She had taken him off it.”
Waif: “Why? Didn’t she want him dead any longer?”
Arya: “She did, and she did not.”
Waif: “She sounds confused.”
Arya: “Yes. She was.”
____________________
firstone,
Def would have a bunch of cat and rob scenes in the top 100
THAT theon scene is not a top twenty scene in my opinion, neither brienne and houndie fight.. Jon named king in the north not even in the top 100???? Wtf!!! Hahaha
Loved loved loved this excercise!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all contributors.
Step,
Sansa wedding to Ramsay should def have been a top 20 in my opinion
ghost of winterfell,
Yes yes yes !!
Wolfish,
PS The only thing I’m unclear on is whether she realized Sandor was just trying to goad her into killing him when he began taunting her about running down and slaughtering Micah, and how he should’ve “f*cked her [Sansa] bloody.”
His initial, logical arguments weren’t working (“F*ck it. I’m ready”….”Another name off your little list”). “Gentle persuasion” didn’t seem to be working either (“You remember where the heart is”; “go after her; she’ll help ya”).
Nor did the part where he looked at her in earnest and asked: “Do I have to beg you?”
I thought she was thinking of doing it, but his taunting didn’t have the desired effect.
It’s been a while since I read the books, so I may be wrong, but I think Mel suspected something big was on the horizon and was preparing for the big war. Visions, prophecies, whatever, but I don’t think it was coincidence. Remember, decades earlier Rhaegar also apparently knew about the Zombie Apocalypse Vol.2 and was working to “produce” TPTWP on his own.
Tons of press snippets and interviews emerging. I’m sure there’s oodles more.
I just visited the IMDB website and the Season 7 episode 1 title is finally posted as “Episode #7.1” – I’m glad that mystery is solved:-)
On Wednesday July 5th 2017 the Game of Thrones season 7 news flood gate will be opened….
A flood of news regarding The Red Carpet premiere event and the official Season 7 episode 1 title will be announced and celebrated by at least a few watchers on the wall.:-)
Shhhh, don’t think about it! 😉
Hodors Bastard,
Re; Your 1:53 pm reply
• “Guys” was a bad choice of words on my part. I should’ve said “people”, i.e, I believe AA and TPTWP are going to be two different people; it’s just possible their identities were conflated in the retellings and embellushments of the “prophecies” over thousands of years.
• If it were up to me, Arya Stark would be The Princess Who Was Promised, the Warrior of Light, the Lady* of Winterfell, the Valanqar, the Wardeness of the North, the Breaker of B*lls, the Mother of Direwolves, the Queen of the Andals, First Men, blah blah blah, the Protector of the Recipe, Guardian of the Worst Sh*t in the Seven Kingdoms, First Sword to the Sealord of Braavos, and International Explorer
* “Do NOT call me ‘my lady’! I don’t want to be a lady!”
[to be cont.]
Honestly, I don’t know exactly. Perhaps ‘coincidence’ was a poor word choice. Mel always had a bizarre TPtwP agenda with Stannis but it was warped. It was more of a power trip for her helping him rule than a “save the world” agenda, imho. She was more concerned about producing Shadow Babies and improving Stannis’ odds in battle than prepping him for the long night. She probably saw some images in the fire regarding one Westeros king vs “The Great Other” but did she really comprehend the pending northern apocalypse before Aemon/Jon’s letter arrived? My personal opinion is that she really didn’t…she just knew that TPtwP was in her future and it meandered from there. Was she really that omniscient?
Regarding Rhaegar though, didn’t every Targ think their child was TPtwP? 🙂 It would be funny if YG amounted to something close though. (lol!)
What did it say before it was updated to #7.1 And where did they say they were announcing stuff on Wednesday?
I would actually like to see a post about that, or at least TOP10 lest it devolve into petty bickering. I can already see the top contenders for this great honor. Stuff like:
* Play with her arse!
* Littlefinger peeping-tomming a guy who peeping-toms another guy while receiving some oral attention from Aremka the faux-foreign whore who then proceeds to French kiss yet another client shortly after having the bodily juices of her prior guest wiped off her mouth. This one may actually be my favorite. It’s just so good.
* The Ultimate Dornish free-for-all starring The Grizzled Veterans Jaime Give-him-a-Hand Lannister and his trusty Humor-and-Murder Machine Bronn on one side and The Powerpuff Girls — Stabby, Whippy, and The One that Almost Got an Oscar — on the other. Those crazy kids!
For that extra kick we can also debate the merits and demerits of such insta-classic from the books:
* likening a woman’s parts to Wet Myrish Swamp
* likening a man’s parts to Fat Pink Mast
* Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.
and last but not least, such gem of descriptive writing:
The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing.
Wolfish,
Interesting idea. And yeah, I could see the walking away more of conflicting emotions, tho that isn’t how it comes across. Good call
No. I’m not a book reader. What do you mean that it’s a “prophetic term” and doesn’t necessarily mean an “actual prince”?
Hodors Bastard,
Sure, Mel improvised a lot, badly interpreting a bunch of visions in the flame. But at the core I do think she considered herself as fighting the good fight, opposing apocalypse and so on and so forth. In order to accomplish that, she felt she needed to secure Westeros under the rule of One True King, Stannis the Lobster, no matter the cost. I agree she was basically blundering around though, trying to make sense of what she believed were her god’s plans.
Ten Bears,
Well, I mean precisely that. The prince who was promised, sometimes referred to as Azor Ahai, is a legendary figure who exists in prophecy. A savior who is prophesied to save the world.
Essentially, this hero existed 8000 years ago and defeated the White Walkers, and now he is meant to come again, in some form. He does not need to be a prince in the technical sense. That’s why I said he doesn’t need to be an actual prince. In other words his being the son of a King or otherwise part of royalty does not seem necessary, and it would certainly seem that the one who lived 8000 years ago was not.
He is simply some sort of Messiah who will bring about the defeat of the White Walkers.
You can learn more on the wiki (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/The_prince_that_was_promised), or from this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3o2LqFZcGU
I highly recommend the video.
Ten Bears,
Oh, it’s crystal-clear that he was trying to taunt her into killing him. He knew his brother and his men were still out there in force, and you can imagine what a terribly prolonged end he would have met had he fallen into Gregor’s hands (or had someone else found him, and turned him into the Lannisters for a reward). Having a merciful end at Arya’s hand (someone he loved, whether or not he admitted it) was far, far more preferable than anything else, whether by Gregor’s hand or slowly dying alone.
IMFB has called it episode # 7.1 for a long time… IMDB doesn’t know what the title is yet.
I am just making another one of my brilliant predictions that there will be a Game of Thrones season 7 news flood on Wednesday July 5th. If I make a similar prediction for only the next 13 days I have a good chance of getting one of my predictions right:-)
Hardhome was more important than Brienne vs the Hound, come on.
But they did look FABULOUS on the big screen. I went to the IMAX showings a few years ago, and the production could compete with any other movies I’ve ever seen, IMHO.
Do you really think that? It seems to me that Mel simply was convinced that she had worked out the puzzle of the prophecy. It seems that the prophecy was (as most are) pretty vague, and mixes literal and figurative descriptions. Stannis really was not a bad guess.
For a while, it struck me as surprising that Mel did not know Daenerys’ history well enough to see that Daenerys fits what we know of the prophecy much better than doe Stannis. However, more recently I have come to think that gender of the word “Prince” led Mel to restrict her candidates to only men. (Something similar comes up in the books.) If she is going by a premise of “If Prince that was Promised, then male” then one would validly (but possibly unsoundly) deduce that Daenerys could not be the promised prince because no matter how well she fits the other criteria, she fails to meet the criterion of being a prince.
And, to her credit: Mel was/is actively looking for this important person in more or less the right type of places. Yes, she got it wrong: but given what crappy information the prophecy actually provides, she actually does pretty well.
We will almost certainly learn that the prior Prince was no messiah, but just a man who happened to be in the “right” place at the “right” time to make history. Quite frankly, I suspect that we’ll learn that from his personal perspective, he really was in the wrong places at the wrong times. His successor will not be some reincarnation, but instead another person (or set of people) who happen to be in the right/wrong place at the right/wrong times, too. Given the recurring theme of “Fairy tales are all lies,” we probably will see how it will be set up for Jon & Daenerys (and possibly others) to become apotheosized after the fact, too.
Hodors Bastard,
I agree with you about Melisandre’s power-trip. Her faith and abilities validated her, gave her meaning and worth. So high was her elation that she never doubted or even questioned her role in relation to Stannis.
However, I think we should keep in mind Melisandre’s psychological makeup. Ash, on a few occasions, has reminded all of us (oh so very rightly !) not to forget that many of the characters whose behaviour we dissect here are supposed to be unfathomably young and that this youth plays a huge part in their ability to understand and analyse the situations they are in. The same logic applies to Melisandre, I believe. Not so much regarding her age, of course, but her past experiences.
The Red Woman used to be a slave. She was once property and she had masters who owned her and whom she had to please. That mindset must have influenced her relationship to both her faith and Stannis.
On the one hand, gaining supernatural abilities must have felt particularly exhilirating for her, who used to be utterly powerless, forbidden to control even the most basic elements of her own existence and/or body. Power is a potent drug and, after having been deprived of even the slightest trace of it for so long, one canbe tempted to gorge on it once it becomes available.
On the other hand, having served masters must have taught Melisandre to tell well-off people what they want to hear. Stannis was, at his core, a bitter man. Eclipsed by a braggadocious older brother and a charming younger one, married to a woman he did not love, “exiled” at Dragonstone, his monarchical ambitions stemmed as much (if not more) from a desire for revenge as from a sense of duty. Melisandre must have subconsciously identified this aspect of his nature and tapped into it, providing him with an image of himself he had always secretly wished for : “the one”.
(The thread does not allow me to respond to one of your previous posts… That is most frustrating ! Grr ! ^^)
But, again: does she do that bad of a job? From what we know, she gets the equivalent of snippet trailer scenes and even borderline hand-puppet analogies to work out. We only need to look at how badly people here (or on other websites discussing other film or TV franchises) have misinterpreted trailer scenes and promotional pictures to see how difficult it is to work with so little information!
One thing that I think we really have learned is that R’hllor is a pretty lousy communicator. But, then, a god trying to make a human understand it would be like a human trying to make a lobster understand him/her!
These are good points. Adding to this, Mel has been around a long time: and Stannis probably is far and away the closest thing she has seen to fitting the criteria. Now it turns out to have been a joke of infinitesimal proportions! Seriously: what are the odds that someone would exist who fits the prophecy as well as Stannis does but who is not the Promised Prince? And what were the odds that this faux prince would happen to be around at just the right time? It is not as if we have any evidence that the Prophecy also predicted some “Anti-Prince” who would look like the real one, after all.
That would hardly be too difficult. The North is huge, after all, and communications are poor at the best of time. The primary areas along the way had been ravaged by war: and Winterfell’s eyes were turned north, first for Stannis and then for Jon & the Wildlings. Because of the latter threat coupled with Ramsay’s obsession with getting Sansa back and his lack of tactical savvy, it hardly would be unsurprising that he did not think to regarrison Moat Cailin. Quite the opposite, one would have expected the rash Ramsay (who is not worried about threats from the south, anyway) to keep all of his forces in Winterfell and in surrounding areas to shore up his alliances.
Now that was very well put! I like Stannis just as much as the next book reader (and this bunch likes him quite a bit!), but they tend to dismiss some of his more questionable personal qualities and focus solely on his “King Who Cared” aspect. It’s become almost like a gospel in certain parts of (book) fandom that Stannis is above all dutiful and honorbound, which I am not fully on board with. While he most certainly does exhibit those traits, he is at his core, as you say, a bitter man who feels slighted by basically everything and is, forgive my saying so, almost autistic in his dealings with people around him (no insult meant here; just an observation). However much he may deny it, I believe that deep down he wants power, recognition, and a sense of belonging. Those deep-seated issues are what made him, a rational agnostic, susceptible to religious mumbo-jumbo of some foreign priestess in the first place.
Well, since Stannis apparently has the personality of a lobster, he should have no problem there. Maybe that the secret of Mel’s influence over him!
That’s was always the impression I got from Stannis… a bitter man who wanted power and recognition as some sort of “vindication” over his brothers: if he couldn’t be loved as they were, at least he could be feared and revered.
Hey, thanks for the feedback! I guess I have a much more cynical impression of Mel in her quest to find TPtwP. From my perspective, she was so wrapped up in forcibly empowering Stannis, she didn’t see the bigger picture until they received Aemon/Jon’s letter. Did you really believe Stannis lit up Lightbringer or did Mel put lighter fluid on it beforehand? Remember, she even offered to make a shadow baby with Davos at one point!!! She was forcing things, getting caught up in the power of it and was honestly confused when her power increased at the Wall and she saw snow (and wolves and bones!) in the flames.
BUT…the show confused me. Did you think “The Red Woman” episode was a one-off episode or did the age of Mel really matter? We’ve seen her in the trailer on Dragonstone. Are we going to see that scene of the old hag getting into bed in the “Previously On”? Will her age (and covert identity) matter in S7 as she meets with a Targ and a Dragon? Did she focus on Stannis initially because Baratheons have some Targ blood in them? I believe her age does matter in all this…maybe…or will she simply see Dany in the flames next and force another inspiration? Or will she serve as the powerful bond for ice and fire?
Not sure, but if I had to guess I’d say her age will play a role, at the very least as background info of some kind. D&D are, to a much greater extent that Martin, wary about spending time on stuff that’s unlikely to pay off down the line. The fact that they did incorporate that rather WTF moment at the end of 6×01 tells me that the guys probably have something in store.
Markus Stark,
Does it have any spoilers for spoiler averse person? Book stuff is fine.. gonna read them eventually
Mr Fixit,
I thought that was a way of showing her power prior to the resurrection of Jon Snow.. setting that up
Damn, I like how you, ACME and Wimsey put those responses. Were we disagreeing on anything? I couldn’t really tell… 🙂
Really looking forward to this.
ACME,
Hee, funny thing – this time I don’t think it has anything to do with age or experience. Remember – she may be several centuries old, and had a hell of a lot of lifetimes to figure this out. Unless she is basing what she is saying on what she knows from centuries past, forgetting to take into account change.
I would phrase it a little differently. Stannis is a man with no proverbial soul. One result is that is a moral absolutist: there is “right” and “wrong,” “good” and “evil,” “honorable” and “dishonorable”, etc. in his mind. There simply is very little flexibility in his mind, and almost zero ability to empathize with anybody about anything.
The problem I have with lionizing Stannis is that it basically says: “Stannis is a man of principle, and that is a good thing!” Well, no, it often is not: the worst people in history have all been men (or occasionally women) of principle: like Stannis, they had pretty bad principles in the first place!
That stated, I do agree with you that Stannis is, deep down, very bitter. In large part, though, I think that he is bitter because he does not get credit for being so honorable: he does what he is supposed to do, and yet nobody seems to appreciate him for it. The somewhat contradictory thing is that he seems to want to be loved: but he really has next to no clue what love is. He does seem to know that he should love his daughter: but it’s like a colorblind person knowing that he/she should see red at a stoplight; because he cannot actually perceive the stimulus, he just goes through the motions.
I do not agree that Stannis wants power. Indeed, I think that Stannis would have had to grow greatly as a person to want power or anything else! He is going after the crown because he is supposed to do so. It is another case of him going through the motions because his moral absolutism forbids him from not pursuing the crown. After all, Robert has no legitimate sons, and that means that it is Stannis’ duty and obligation to become king. Perhaps we could reverse it: Stannis might not want the crown, but he wants to not be the man who failed his duty by not taking the crown that is (by honor!) his.
(Really, Stannis is much easier to read if you use Eeyore’s voice from Winny the Pooh! 😀 )
No! We are agreeing!!! And if you dare to tell me otherwise, then I will seek out honor, sir, I said, Sir!
😀
Seriously, if we are doing anything, then it’s like arguing about exactly which shade of green from a paint chip card a wall really is….
OT but I really can’t emphasize enough how awesome this GoT animated parody series is. I’m so glad they’re considering doing the rest of the seasons. Wicked humour. A few smart jibes you’ll catch if you’ve read the novels, but it’s definitely not necessary.
Hmmmh, now that you mention it, that works too. For viewers who don’t remember the Beric stuff from Season 3, it is a convenient reminder that Mel is a powerful witch with scary powers.
All this agreeing is actually an insidious form of disagreement. We are lulling each other into a false sense of security before we spring our traps. Errr… I’m not sure if that’s what you are doing, but it most definitely is my plan. Shhh, don’t share it with the others, I intend to club them over their heads with the most outrageous disagreeing yet when they least expect it. It will be glorious.
These are good questions. My thought is that she focused on Stannis because he fit the criteria better than anybody else she’d seen. (Again, I suspect that she is making a big mistake by not considering that the Prince could be a Princess: but that is just a suspicion.)
So, here are some tricky things that border on theological questions. Suppose you are in her position and you find a good candidate to be The Prince. Part of the Prophecy says that he’ll have a sword called Lightbringer. Well, suppose further that you know how to make Lightbringer. Should you: 1) wait for your god to generate Lightbringer, or, 2) assume that your god put you there to create Lightbringer for the Prince? It’s like the joke about the religious person stranded on an island who waves the boats away claiming that his god will save him, only to die and ask his god “why didn’t you save me?” and have his god reply “I sent half a dozen boats, you idiot, what more did you want?” Mel might have decided that, in this situation, she was what R’hllor had sent to fulfill parts of the prophecy. And, let’s face it: isn’t that better than being the guy who waves the boats away?
And, of course, there is the fact that Mel is so old. Why has her god let her not just stay alive for so long, but let her stay youthful and vigorous, if not to help guide the Prince? To us, it seems arrogant to presume to be Chosen by God to do things: but if some god kept me youthful and hale for a couple of centuries, then I might be inclined to believe that this god wanted me to do something. Why else would this be happening?
Of course, we really do not know what R’hllor’s game is. Mel accepts that it is an all-powerful, all-loving, all-knowing god: but I’d be shocked if such a thing really existed in Martin’s universe. However, asking someone blessed by a god to pull back the curtain and see the charlatan pulling the levers might be asking a bit much.
Maybe we should buy Mel a little dog…… 😉
Did you now that is one of 1001 things that sounds better in the original Klingon?
This is certainly a valid interpretation and one I shared earlier. Nowadays I subscribe to the opinion that Stannis, at some level, does want power. Sure, he seeks it because, as the rightful king, he is obliged to, but I don’t think it stops there.
Stannis is a psychotherapist’s wet dream. For whatever reason — being the middle child, early death of his parents, being taught to put principles ahead of personal wishes yet witnessing his brothers do the opposite and getting away with it, or something else entirely — he grew up as an extremely, EXTREMELY repressed person. He doesn’t allow himself any personal wants because he is ashamed of them, his whole life he thought he didn’t deserve them. Yes, he says all the time how he was denied what he deserved, but I think he actually fears he really doesn’t deserve what was denied him.
In waltzes Mel who reads him like an open book and uses it to “get to him”. In that sense, Mel could actually have had somewhat of a positive effect on Stannis’s psychological state in that she finally made him admit his subconscious desires and helped them come to the surface where he can start processing them. Of course, seeing how he ended up, maybe not the best idea! 🙂
Of course. After Shakespeare, that is.
I refuse to accept the obvious.
🙂 You know, Darkstar came to Mel one night and they discussed terrifying things…including the whereabouts of a certain Shiera Seastar…
Dee Stark,
None !
I couldn’t agree more. As Dornish Tyrell very right said, a profound and quite pathological hunger for vindication was at the very core of Stannis’s motivation.
His brothers were naturally gifted and remarkably lazy. Both of them handsome (before Robert let himself go), charming, warm, full of swagger, magnetic and fun; both married to stunning women; both living in beautiful castles; both relying heavily on their inherent charisma and roguish brazenness to get by and gain support. Stannis had none of their natural abilities or social graces. He also fell behind in terms of life partner (Selyse was not in Cersei and Margaery’s league as far as looks are concerned) and accommodation (Dragonstone looks like a sinister dump).
While he never would have admitted it to himself, I think, he probably envied his brothers’ ease as well as the seeming gifts life had bestowed upon them. And what better gift than a crown and a throne ?
And then came Melisandre, a spectacularly gorgeous “young” (ha ha !) woman who told him he was the world’s saviour, the one and only person who could rescue mankind from some metaphysical threat… For once, the gods (or God) smiled upon him. Him and not his brothers. How could the poor, sad, bitter man possibly resist ?
He believed Melisandre because he wanted to believe her, because her spiel resonated with his frustration.
So he played the part of the dutiful and unassuming king/messiah, hiding his ambition behind a prophecy, arguing his pursuit of the crown was a divine necessity and not the byproduct of his personal animus. He pretended it was a sacrifice when it was anything but. Until Shireen…
Tragically enough, burning the one and only person he truly loved turned him into what he had so often said he was : a dutiful king who puts the need of the many above his own.
That is a very good point.
I think one of the things we must keep in mind when trying to map out Melisandre’s deeds is that, as far as we know and as Wimsey rightly pointed out, she has always been a sincere believer, a fundamentalist even (until Shireen’s death). And that may explain why she “forced” certain events.
While it may seem counterintuitive, true believers are actually more likely to “stage” divine interventions than cynical charlatans. The faithful have a vested interest in their faith being confirmed because they desperately need to be right. To them, it is a matter of spiritual life or death.
Full disclosure, a couple of years ago, when working on a sociological study of modern-day mystiques, I interviewed quite a few believers who openly admitted they had faked religious manifestations (dropping oil on statues or painting to pretend the represented saints had been “crying”, attributing scientifically-explained recoveries to miracles, carving out stigmatas into their own hands and feet, etc.). And all of them told me the same thing : this is what God would have wanted. These people did not view themselves as liars; they genuinely thought they were merely “helping God out”. Bringing His message to the world, one way or another, so that their faith could be validated.
Therefore, I can perfectly imagine Melisandre pouring some lighting fluid on “Lightbringer” before the ceremony and telling herself : “that is the Lord of Light’s will”…
Ash is entirely right to say that Melisandre’s age should have prevented her from making grotesque mistakes. However, I would argue that her faith blinded her and her past experience as a slave made her more susceptible to a) get high on power and b) cold-read master-like Stannis.
Ha ! We are currently fighting to the death to decide who agress with whom more 😛
Pigeon,
Hee, some good laughs, but as a cat owner, my favorite is when someone distracts the direwolves by flashing a shiny mirror reflection on the ground…..
ACME,
.
Well perhaps they heard that same joke about god sending lots of boats – they are taking action on their own instead of waiting! (love it when a joke can go two ways. Never mind, I’ll let myself out)
true, that
And may I just say how wonderful it is to be told I am right not just once, but twice in one day! (thanks)
Robb: “Where the f*ck are my wolves???”
*Hodor holding mirror, light on floor*
Greywind: “WE WILL DESTROY IT!!!”
I am by far the most agreeable person ever. And I am very modest about it, tool
I would add to this that Stannis might have been emotionally “neutered” by the death of his parents. Robert’s reckless playboy life might also have been a reaction to that.
marry me
If anyone in UK wants to compare, Thursday 9pm Sky Atlantic 20 Greatest Moments GOT but not sure if this goes up to and includes series 6.
I would gladly, but ours would be a bond separated by vast distances of the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea, curse their unyielding blue waters. I would never again be able to enjoy the beauty of samba without wistful longing. Nay, it is best we don’t cross ways. The pain would be too much to bear.
(If this were 19th century, in the great tradition of the Romanticism I would probably develop tuberculosis because of all the grief, then go soothe my body and nerves in some faraway hospice and spend my last days reading your letters with tears in my eyes. Really, why the hell did those guys have to be so damn depressive all the time?)
🙂
I have a feeling they’ve shown one of these programs before, but can’t recall if it was before or after season six aired.
Mr Fixit,
LOL!!
Virtual marriage then?!?
and re: 19th century, so damn true! hahahaha!!
Man, you should give classes on “How to Dump Girls.” 😀
Really enjoyed reading this list. Personally, I think the top moment is Baelor and the death of Ned. I hadn’t read any of the books when I started watching the show, and this is the moment when I decided that I had to read these books. I finished all of them by the start of Season 2 and my obsession started!
Alba Stark,
I’ve seen a few of those on Sky Atlantic. I think the last did include scenes from S5. I vaguely remember Hardhome and Dany riding off on Drogon, so perhaps this latest one will also include scenes from S6.
Sky Atlantic have done this ‘Greatest 20 GoT moments’ at least twice and from what I recall was first aired after S4 and then again after S5. Like WotW’s 101 memorable scenes, the Red Wedding was at the top of the list on both occasions. So I don’t expect the #1 position to have changed even if they include scenes from S6 😉
In Soviet Russia you don’t dump girls, girls dump you. But since I’m not in Soviet Russia nor in any kind of Russia, I don’t know where that leaves me. What was I trying to say again?
Dee, I accept your proposal. Now where is a drunken septon when you need one?
Black Raven,
Yes, as I said to Alba I don’t know how old it is. There is also an interview with GRRM on tonight at 9pm same side which has been on before, originally south Bank Show. Think I ‘ll tape anyway.
Wimsey,
Mr Fixit,
LOL!!
Thank you for the info! I think I might check it out. Also, for anyone in the UK and interested, on BBC at 9pm this Thursday is the new season of Who Do You Think You Are, with this week’s episode focusing on Charles Dance.
Mr Fixit,
Are you in Brazil? Está no Brasil?
Wolfish,
i was going to ask the same
No, but I seem to remember Dee’s from there. Now that I think about it, is she? Hmmmh. Well, she looks like she is! 🙂 I am thousands of miles away in the Old World.
That several of my ex-girlfriends were Soviet agents, I think.
Carole H,
The South Bank Show interview with GRRM is very good. Seen it several times. Its well worth recording 😉
Wolfish,
I think I was curious whether Arya realized that Sandor was saying that nasty stuff about his saddle stinking of butcher’s boy for weeks, and f*cking Sansa bloody, to goad her into killing him. She seemed reluctant – even oddly detached – and he’d already resigned himself to death and asked her “nicely.”
So, do you think SHE knew that’s why he was being such a d*ck?
P.S. Gotta commend The Hound for (what he thought might be) his last words: “F*ck it. I’m ready.”
MaeB,
Welcome to the club, obsession and all!
There is no evidence that LF has “deduced” this, and there is considerable evidence that he has not made the inference. If LF thought this, then he would have used it against Ned in order to bully Ned into agreeing to LF’s plan for controlling Joffery. If LF thought this, then he would have raised it with Sansa and at least spread the rumor at Winterfell in order to “Comey” Jon. Really, unless it had been a topic of conversation in LF’s brothel’s, then there is no reason why he would know.
It is very different with Aemon. He probably knew the truth about Rhaegar & Lyanna because he personally knew Rhaegar. Aemon also knew about the prophecy, and almost certainly knew why Rhaegar needed a new wife/concubine/paramour/girlfriend/whore/whatever. Aemon had a personal connection to Rhaegar, whereas LF had no connection to either Rhaegar or Lyanna That personal connection might not be a gun on the wall that demands firing, but it certainly is a prop that has been put into place that could be used.
Markus Stark,
(* dons tinfoil helmet and full-body tinfoil Hazmat suit*)
1. I maintain that Azor Ahai and The Prince [Who] Was Promised are two different people. The legends/myths were either misinterpreted to begin with, or merged over the millenia.
2. I look at it as the inverse of the way you posed it, i.e., TPTWP must be an actual prince, because the person who will be that prophecied hero will just so happen to be a royal heir. Yes, it could’ve been just anyone, but coincidentally he or she will just happen to be a prince(ss).
It may be necessary to “prove” that person’s royal bloodline if the masses and religious leaders are reluctant to follow someone who doesn’t fit the prophecy’s literal criteria.
3. The “savior” isn’t going to be some mighty warrior or reknowned battle commander. (Otherwise Stannis would still be around.) He or she is going to be someone like Jon Snow who understands the “New Math.”
Against an adversary that turns every one of your battlefield casualties into a new enemy soldier, you can’t rely on overpowering numbers. (After the Blackwater wildfire explosion when Stannis prepared to lead his troops to shore, an aide said. “But your Grace, hundreds will die.” Replied Stannis: “Thousands”. That kind of calculous won’t work anymore.
For that matter, Robb’s brilliant tactical maneuver that required sacrificing 2,000 troops as a decoy won’t work either; under the “New Math” such a tactic would only produce a net gain of +4,000 for the enemy.
I’ve also viewed Jon Snow’s character trajectory as the evolution of a different “kind” of hero. Starting from a kid with a chip on his shoulder complaining that other NW members like Grenn and Pyp “hate me because I’m better than them”, he learned empathy and they became his loyal friends. Same with Tormund and the Free Folk, to the point where he died for them and they died for him.
The “new” kind of hero has a new kind of courage. As Tormund and Jon both explained it, it’s the courage to make peace with longstanding enemies, or to recognize that you shouldn’t have been enemies to begin with.
Now that’s kind of progressive in a tribal society, but the “old way” isn’t going to cut it.
4. There never was a legendary hero 8,000 years ago. Because there was no WW invasion 8,000 years ago.
5. There were no “prophecies”, at least not in the usual sense of somebody in the past being able to look into the future. Alternatively, the “prophecies” are all propaganda.
(*takes off tinfoil helmet and suit*)
I love this! But personally I feel like Dany acquiring the unsullied was one of my favorite moments so I’d rank it higher along with Blackwater!
Ten Bears,
I always thought, in the book and on the show, that she understood exactly what he was doing. After all, she was still a child with a child’s emotional reactions; imho the fact that he wasn’t able to goad her into killing him is proof that she understood why he said those things.
My #1 wasn’t included on the list at all:
The camera shot of Jon after he falls from his horse, and draws his sword as Ramsey’s cavalary charges at him in S6 EP9.
I’m impressed, I must say. Rarely do I come across a blog that’s both educative and entertaining, and let me tell you, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The issue is something which not enough people are speaking intelligently about. I’m very happy I found this during my search for something regarding this.