Two casting calls hint at Tyrion’s season five storyline

Dinklage

When we last saw Tyrion Lannister on Game of Thrones, he was headed for parts unknown after offing his father and his ex. Tyrion’s story in season five will take him into new territory with King’s Landing left behind, and the latest casting calls offer hints as to the turns his journey will take next season.

There will be mild spoilers in the discussion below.

First up, we have some info provided to us from a source, about a casting for a young woman character, named Clea.

Clea is in her early twenties, and described as a pretty young courtesan with nimble wit. It’s noted that this is a 3-page scene between just her and Peter Dinklage. Surprisingly, it’s also noted there is no sex or nudity in the role. Filming for the character will be September 15th.

The other casting call out at the moment was spotted by Los Siete Reinos.  Modexpor International, the casting company working with Game of Thrones in Spain, is seeking an actor to double for Tyrion Lannister in the country.

The presence of Tyrion and Peter Dinklage in Spain brings up a couple questions: will Tyrion make his way to Daznak’s Pit, most likely filmed in Osuna, Spain this year? Or will one of the other locations scouted in the Osuna area be standing in for an Essos locale such as Pentos or Volantis?

Let the speculation begin!

96 responses

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    1. Interesting. Wonder why they need a body double, unless there’s stunt work involved. Did he use one before? In Blackwater, perhaps?

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    2. Interesting! I assume Penny is getting cut, but no surprise there. Not sure how I feel about Tyrion’s unknown three page scene… might pessimistic but I’m still feeling underwhelmed by that beetle monologue.

      Since I’m convinced that Dany’s season 5 storyline will end with

      her flying away on Drogon’s back,

      I also believe that

      Tyrion will be in Meereen

      before the end of the season.

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    3. If he makes it to Daznak’s Pit (Osuna possible location), the body double for a stunt makes sense as he’d be riding the pig. Except there’s no Penny to duel with! lol

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    4. I wonder if Clea will be Pentoshi or Volantene? I guess probably Volantene given we know that there’s a brothel there in show canon.

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    5. Strider,

      I forget which BTS video it was from, but I remember D&D talking about how they wanted to include the

      pig jousting

      in the show. They couldn’t get it to work for logistical reasons.

      It was nice to see them them really try to keep the show close to the books, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out on film.

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    6. Did anyone still believe Tyrion would not reach Daznak’s Pit this coming season? I admit, with no offense intended, that I’m a bit baffled by the those who hold out hope for AFFC&ADWD to be adapted into two seasons. Honestly, we already got plenty of AFFC&ADWD for many storylines last season —the rest can be adapted in Season 5, and it seems that’s exactly what they are doing.

      That’s not the only matter, though. Obviously they were going to adapt AFFC and ADWD simultaneously, chronologically. Following the original book structure would be madness. BUT, each book has a story arc for each character. You can’t just cut Tyrion’s journey in the middle, for example, and have it be in any way satisfying. The kinda did it with Season 3, but with the Red Wedding in the middle of the book it was easier for most characters to have a proper arc. Which characters have a satisfying ending in the middle of AFFC or ADWD? Does anyone have a definable arc that goes from start to finish in half of those books? Maybe some do, but most don’t.

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    7. I feel reasonably confident that the body double will be used for

      Daznak’s pit. That scene is going to require a lot of wide shots so that they can use CGI to incorporate Drogon in post-production. It makes sense that they would want a double so that Peter Dinklage doesn’t have to be on set for all of those – he’s only needed for the close-up and reaction shots (of which I imagine there will be plenty).

      As for the girl Clea, I seem to recall that in A Dance With Dragons, Tyrion

      requests a girl while he’s in the brothel near Volantis. She winds up being the ‘Sunset Girl’ who’s basically a terrified product of abuse and doesn’t speak a word of the Common Tongue, which doesn’t match the description of this quick-witted girl at all. However, it’s worth mentioning that Tyrion behaves like an absolute drunken ass towards her, pukes on the floor of her room, and winds up sending her away shortly before he’s captured by Jorah. Without intending to provoke those who believe that Game of Thrones has compromised Tyrion’s character by turning into ‘Saint Tyrion’ (I hate the ‘W’ word, and I refuse to use it here), I’m going to say that this is a scene that the show could do without.
      I could see the writers changing this scene up so that the brothel is a more classy establishment (hence the term ‘courtesan’), and Tyrion engages in some tipsy banter with this quick-witted girl before deciding to head off to a more private location. Jorah would then capture him before anything else happens – hence no nudity required.

      An alternative option might be

      If Pentos is in, maybe Tyrion interacts with Clea there. Illyrio could be attempting to play the ‘gracious host’ by providing Tyrion with a ‘courtesan’. But if Tyrion is too drunk and too sad to want sex, they may just wind up talking.

      A scene like that could be a good way to establish just where Tyrion’s mind is early in Season 5.

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    8. Jared,

      I hope that’s her role. I’d like Tyrion to verbalize his state of mind, as it wouldn’t make much sense for him to talk that way to Varys.

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    9. Glad that Penny isn’t there, such an annoying character. As to Clea:

      Either she’s a younger version of the widow by the waterfront (if so, let’s hope she’s Talissa sister or something like that) or she’s the girl in Pentos or perhaps (crackpot) they’ll go for a BBP replacement. Like making her a cross between him and that Ghiscari general.

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    10. I know that this is a minor role but every time I don’t hear about Illyrio or the Griffs or other characters it does irk me.

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    11. Morgoth:
      I, for one, am glad that Penny is nowhere to be seen. Rot in the cut characters corner, Penny. Say hello to Belwas for me.

      This is a bit harsh but I tend to agree. Its getting crowded in that corner…Arianne, Quentyn and Coldhands will need to move over.

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    12. Hey, has Dr. Strange’s paramour decided to visit Essos? Clea was my fantasy as a kid!

      Oh well, I hope Penny’s spirit will live on within Clea (or maybe vice-versa)!

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    13. I wanted to like Penny, I really did… but I found her slightly annoying. Maybe it was the intent to make her that way. I don’t hate her and I feel a little bad saying so but I’m kinda glad there seems to no trace of her in the show so far. Makes room for more Tyrion/Jorah antics, which I’m dying to see.

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    14. When I saw “two casting calls” i STILL got my hopes up for Griff and Young Griff, even though the boat scenes have already been filmed

      anyway, just how long a scene is 3 pages of script?

      maybe Clea is how they’re adapting Yezzan’s collection of freaks, since they really should make more of Tyrion’s life as a slave. It’s kind of taken lightly in the books, although not for poor Jorah

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    15. Since there is no sex or nudity, I’m guessing Tyrion is going to be drunk and self pitying and puke on her. That happened in Pentos in the books but could easily happen at the Volantis brothel. Maybe for extra patheticness they’ll cast someone who looks like Shae.

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    16. I was hoping for a casting call on a twenty something male with blonde hair that can be died blue and for an older man that can play his comrade.

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    17. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      Me, too.

      I’m still holding a faint hope they were there on the Toome, and the set was so locked down, they weren’t spotted. I will hold out that hope until the river journey is over. Hell, I will hold out hope for them until any scenes we may get with the Golden Company have come and gone, just in case, for some reason, it’s decided the audience should meet them there. I’ve pretty much resigned myself to not having them, but, yes, hope springs eternal.

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    18. Lion of Night,

      Well okay, maybe the word “needed” is colored by my personal bias, in that I like JonCon a lot more than Theon’s billion uncles.

      Oddly Theon is one of my favorite characters in the series, maybe even my favorite, but the rest of the Greyjoys do very little for me.

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    19. As an Unsullied, I don’t know why I keep clicking on these posts. I keep telling myself not to spoil anything else by continuing to read the posts and comments, yet I just can’t stay away. They say curiosity

      killed Ser Pounce

      , but I think we all know that he is invincible.

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    20. A Man Grown,

      Nothing odd about that! xD Theon’s definitely my favourite character too, and it’s the ultimate direction they’re going to take with his storyline that I’m watching closest of all.

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    21. As much as

      Tyrion’s slave time could well work out with Jorah as his only companion,

      They migh as well get some equivalent to Penny. I never expected her to be cast because it must be really hard to get a good dwarf actress, period, let alone a dwarf actress who’s right in the part. But they might get some normal-size slave girl to interact with him.

      Either way, i think this “Clea” will stand in for some

      acquaintance of Illyrio’s in Pentos.

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    22. I thought it was about YG and G. But as I said before, if YG is not who he says he is when TWOW comes out, I’ll be glad he is not on the show. Waste of time just as I think those Greyjoys are a waste too whom most likely will just get BBQ by a dragon.

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    23. King Stannis:

      Speak for yourself, man. If YG is in fact is who most people think he is,

      a Blackfyre descendant,

      it will be the best twist to me, if not completely unpredictable. It would connect a good part of the backstory to the actual story being told.

      And i accept that Vic being roasted is a possibility (the same could be said about Barristan or Tyrion or anyone who’s close to Meereen, for that matter), but Euron?

      We may not know yet a whole lot about his plans, but so far, we know he connects the Ironborn, the dragons, the warlocks from Qarth and the Citadel. That’s a lot of dots, and even most Ironborn haters concede that he’s looking an important player for the next books.

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    24. I think this Clea will be

      the girl he sees while in Pentos

      and his double will be for

      falling into the river when the stone men attack

      , but if it’s in Spain, and they seem to be filming that scene in Ireland from what I’ve seen, it could be something else, but I’m not sure what.

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    25. I could see the courtesan having some nice dialogue lines with Tyrion. If she’s witted she can provoke him with sharp half-jokes about him and in the end make him reconsider his expectations of the world and himself.
      And it’d be nice to see a depressed Tyrion engaged in a verbal joust with a clever courtesan on his journey.

      In the books, Penny does that kind of effect on him in the end, but since she’s cut (and I’m not complaining this one ! ^^), it could be a nice way to accomplish some morals reconsideration for Tyrion in a nice scene like that.

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    26. Dovaogēdys,

      Go read the books, then. That should fill your GoT needs 🙂
      I mean, the last two aren’t the most entertaining stuff but you can suffer through them for the good scenes. Then you can come back here and read spoilers.

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    27. Fjordgazer,

      Plenty of good dwarf actresses out there if they wanted to go that way (Fran Mills would have been perfect or if they wanted older perhaps Lisa Hammond).

      Don’t mind Penny being cut as she wasn’t crucial but I found her to be quite interesting in the books as it showed Tyrion taking a protective role and also made him realise how different his life would have been if he hadn’t been born into wealth.

      My issue with some of the casting is it’s getting quite generic. How many whores do we really need?! That’s why I was annoyed when they aged up Missandei and turned her from a unique character into just another pretty thing who doesn’t do a lot. The Sand Snakes seem to have been prettied up too so hopefully don’t lose what little character they had. May be why I mourn the potential loss of

      Euron, Victarion, the Griffs, Little Scribe Missandei Septa Lemore and to lesser degree Penny, Sweets and others

      . They are memorable and unique characters who stick in the memory long after that of a nice pair of boobs.

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    28. Ross,

      Hey, I love boobs as much has the next guy but I enjoy them more in real life as opposed to them flooding a great show! Quite happy to keep my sexual desires and TV viewing seperate entitties…I mean entities!

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    29. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I don’t see how the Sand Snakes are just “a nice pair of boobs”. They certainly aren’t going to have as sexy a nude scene as Arianne does in the book. I do think the show would have benefitted if one Sand Snake was traded for Arianne, but she couldn’t have filled the same role she had in TWOW anyway if they cut the Griffs. The Griffs aren’t really all that great- there is nothing particularly unique about their characters and their role only serves to complicate the plot (which is already complicated enough). Cutting them might be D&D’s best hope to streamline the show and fit it into 7 seasons. On the Greyjoys, I enjoy some aspects of Victarion’s scenes but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a glorified ship delivery person and he likely won’t make it past the hundredth page of TWOW. He is completely pointless within the story, really. Aeron is a borefest so I certainly won’t miss him, but I do think there’s still a chance of Euron (possibly in season 6) assuming that he is actually relevant to the endgame. I would hate to lose Euron.

      Septa Lemore is a pair of tits and no more. Penny is annoying as hell and what little worked about her in the books would end up looking pretty ridiculous in the show (two dwarfs in loveeeeee). Sweets is an androgynous whore that had one real scene, so I can’t see why you’d ever miss him. On Missandei, I do prefer the book version, but I like show Missandei as well.

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    30. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Fjordgazer,
      The Sand Snakes seem to have been prettied up too so hopefully don’t lose what little character they had.

      The Sand Snakes have been prettied up? Lol, are you joking? Obara is made hotter, but the other ones are not nearly as attractive as depicted in the books.

      EDIT: What, just checked the first casting video and Jonathan Pryce is cast as the High Sparrow 😮 My God, how did I miss this? I demand many scenes with him and a hommage to Brazil if they manage to work it in!

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    31. jentario,

      As much as I agree with most of the other points you made, Penny and Tyrion are not in love. As TheTouchOfFrost pointed out, their interactions are a thoughtful examination of what it means to have dwarfism with two very deferent social standings.

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    32. Bott:
      Interesting! I assume Penny is getting cut, but no surprise there. Not sure how I feel about Tyrion’s unknown three page scene… might pessimistic but I’m still feeling underwhelmed by that beetle monologue.

      Of course there was always the scene with the dying farmer, and the Pod/Brienne/Hot Pie stuff too. So perspective needed.

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    33. jentario,

      Of course this is all personal preference so we’re probably going to disagree. Not said they’re a nice pair of boobs but they are devoid of personality in the books. Honestly, can’t see why they cut out Arianne when she was one of the Dorne characters who was actually fleshed out properly. Sand Snakes are style over substance and I’m not sure why they didn’t cut or at least reduce their roles as wold have streamlined it much better. In the grand scheme of things the Queenmaker plot and Doran biding his time to side with a Targ are the only relevant things that happen in Dorne. I.m not sure why people are always worried about having a complicated plot. I think TV viewers are fed up of being treated like idiots which is why they’ve come to GoT and other more intelligent shows in the first place. It’s not that hard to get across. Oberyn’s sister the one he was trying to avenge, well one of her children wasn’t killed and is gathering power across the Narrow Sea. Present it in a more stylish way than that and we’re sorted! I’m all for cutting them out of the boat journey and introducing them in another way (would make more sense for them to stay at Pentos with Illyrio/Varys and then invade Dragonstone) but cutting out such big characters strays too far from the source material for my liking and the accurate adaption of the source material is what brought the show to the dance.
      We can’t know for certain what will happen with each character. Again, how much effort would it really be to put in Vic and Euron? I think the Ironborn are going to be the turning point in the Siege of Mereen so Victarions journey would be pretty important. Not sure how Euron’s going to factor in but he seems to have apart to play. I’d rather them work this parts of the story in than making up storylines (like the horrific Missandei/Grey Worm bilge) and wasting time with stupid scenes like pretty much everything Brienne did last season!
      I liked the mystery of who Septa Lemore might be but fair play she is easily cuttable as are Penny ( not sure where you got the dwarves in love from?!) and Sweets. My point remains that even if they’re just featured extras, make them different/interesting/memorable! For example, instead of yet another whore they could have had Penny almost cameo as a servant in Illyrios palace who’s serving Tyrion. In that one small (forgive the choice of words) scene they could use her as she was used in the books to make Tyrion realise he’s got a life to do something with ( perhaps referencing that her brother was killed when mistaken for him/how she’s done what she had to survive.) Or the head of the salves Tyrion and Jorah find themselves part of is transgendered (adds to the exotic nature of their surroundings) instead of someone non-descript…or another whore!

      Veltigar,

      Obara and Nym are aged down and Obara is nowhere near the beast she is in the books. Also Tyene is very different in both looks and that she’s not a warrior. If you don’t think those actresses are attractive then that’s your own opinion but I think the majority of folks would say they are. I kind of get the aging up of Myrcella and Trystane as long as they don’t spend too much time on a contrived love story between them.

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    34. Abyss,

      Oh, I know. But it does come off as a sort of romantic relationship, especially since we don’t get Tyrion’s inner thoughts in the show. I was writing extremes, don’t get me wrong.

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    35. Obara and Nym are aged down and Obara is nowhere near the beast she is in the books. Also Tyene is very different in both looks and that she’s not a warrior.If you don’t think those actresses are attractive then that’s your own opinion but I think the majority of folks would say they are.

      Yeah, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t put words into my mouth. I didn’t say that the actresses weren’t pretty, I said they weren’t as attractive as they were in the books. Denying that is a folly,

      A Man Grown:
      Veltigar,
      Brazil is one of the best movies ever.

      It’s a great movie that’s for sure. I remember hating it in the beginning, but somehow I stuck around and I was just blown away by the rest of the movie.

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    36. TheTouchOfFrost,

      My thoughts on the Griffs:

      At face value, they seem like important and interesting characters. The truth is that they come too late in the game to be taken seriously- their’s is a doomed cause. The most common speculation is that Dorme supports Aegon, they overthrow the Lannisters and then when Dany finally arrives she ends up fighting them.

      Now let me show you why that whole arc is a convoluted, unnecessary mess of massive proportions: people have been wanting to see Dany land in Westeros for years, and then Aegon comes to steal her thunder. People wanted to see Dany spank the Lannisters out of the Iron Throne but Aegon will steal her thunder. People expected the final, climactic battle of the game of thrones to be between characters they have known and cared about since the beginning- instead we get Dany vs Aegon.

      What Aegon does, really, is add another step to the story. Instead of Dany joining Dorne to overthrow the Lannisters (before moving on to fight the White Walkers), this war is broken up into two parts- Aegon vs Cersei and Dany vs Aegon. By cutting Aegon, the show reduces the final fight into Dany vs Cersei. This means the show can afford to finish in 7 seasons without rushing. It means that Dany’s landing will actually feel special, and that we get to see Dany overthrow the Lannisters just like everyone who hasn’t read ADWD wants.

      I do agree that viewers can take in a complicated plot. I don’t agree that it would be good for the show to stuff the Griffs in there with only 7 seasons left (that would require rushing one thing or another). I also don’t think the Griffs are necessarily a good addition on GRRM’s part. I feel that it comes way too late to be taken seriously, and that it deprives other characters of what should have been their moments. It also adds another step, as I said, in an already long series. Time will tell if that step will be worth it in the books, but I honestly don’t think we’ll lose much by cutting it in the show.

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    37. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Honestly, can’t see why they cut out Arianne when she was one of the Dorne characters who was actually fleshed out properly. Sand Snakes are style over substance and I’m not sure why they didn’t cut or at least reduce their roles as wold have streamlined it much better. In the grand scheme of things the Queenmaker plot and Doran biding his time to side with a Targ are the only relevant things that happen in Dorne.

      This type of thing is the precise reason why I don’t enjoy participating in the discussion on this site so much, even though I like to follow the casting news. People make such knowledgeable claims based on what has happened so far and what their personal preferences happen to be. The story is not complete and we are in worse position than D & D to evaluate what will be important for the endgame.

      The Sand Snakes may not have been important so far, but GRRM himself recently said (in addition to confessing he prefers boobs to weeners) they are “going to create a lot of trouble in the show and in the books to come” (around 2:00 mins).

      http://www.avclub.com/article/george-rr-martin-denies-south-parks-insinuation-he-207454

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    38. It could be that the primary role Arianne plays in the rest of the story relates to Aegon. If Aegon is gone, then cutting Arianne may make more sense. It’s also notable that the Snakes, while awesome, don’t do much of anything in the books – not yet, anyway. If they’re the ones running the Queenmaker plot, and if Obara is altered somewhat to be a bit more like Arianne (a bit less of a beast but still headstrong) it could work nicely especially with a lovely, awesome actress like Keisha Castle-Hughes (she’s so great, I’m really stoked for her).

      Meanwhile — it’s mid-September now. Are we used to seeing so little information on other castings by this time? Because not including the big video, so far all we’ve gotten are A) a bunch of people confirmed to be returning from last year B) Bowen Marsh and C) Denys Mallister, who we only really found out about because he died after they started shooting.

      Does anyone else think they’re trying to intentionally be quieter about it than in the past? I only also say it because it was really strange to see that hooded figure next to Maisie Williams wearing some kind of mask…someone who could have been the Waif, or Jaqen. No news yet on Unella, Maggie, Melara, Varamyr, to say nothing of those we might lose entirely, et cetera.

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    39. jentario: I feel that it comes way too late to be taken seriously, and that it deprives other characters of what should have been their moments. It also adds another step, as I said, in an already long series.

      We have 2 big books left to go, and if you think they will flow smoothly into a predictable confrontation, you’ve been reading the wrong story. And considering their introduction was originally supposed to take place in book 4, you can hardly claim that is too late in the game for a 7 book series. Otherwise you might as well say Doran was too late in the story to be introduced.

      Griff and Young Griff may or may not be included this season, but that doesn’t mean they will be excluded entirely.

      I get that you think the story line is over complicating the plot. I fully understand why some dislike the characters. But to say they come too late in the game to make a difference I just don’t get at all. That’s like saying the introduction of Roose Bolton was too late to have an impact at the Red Wedding and he stole a moment that should have been Tywin’s.

      We have 2 books before we see the results of what GRRM is setting up in book 4 and 5. Plenty of time left.

      Hell, he’s been slow playing the Summer Isles since book 1. We’ve barely learned anything about the Beggar King Jalabhar in 5 books, but he may still have some role to play. Possibly a big role.

      I hope the last two books are fun and exciting and unpredictable. What you describe as what the books should be doing definitely doesn’t need 2 more books to be concluded. If GRRM was concerned about what the fans want and being predictable, Ned would still be alive.

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    40. Veltigar,

      My basic point stands. Beauty is subjective. You think they are less attractive a lot of people would argue otherwise. Either way, I don’t think it’s debateable that they’ve been tailored to be more appealing to a TV audience.

      jentario,

      That’s your theory/point of view which is fair play but writing off people who don’t appear until later in the story doesn’t seem fair to me…especially as a lot of the original cast are no longer players. I’m willing to treat whoever whenever they come into it with as much importance as they warrant. To be honest, after the first book Danys story has been getting duller and duller. I know she’s the popular choice for “winning” the GoT but I think Aegon or Stannis would both make better rulers than her but away from personal opinion. I think the viewer now expects Dany to come over and conquer, Aegon emerging makes them question what they thought was inevitable as on the surface he has a better claim and is actually making efforts to claim whilst Dany fannys about in a part of the world no one really cares about. In essence it makes the plot more interesting and unpredictable.
      Pretty much all we’re talking about is conjecture anyway. Dany, Cersei and Aegon could all die in the first couple of chapters in the next book for all we know! I guess this is the problem when the show isn’t given the ability or resources to adapt the books fully.

      Hodorkovski,

      I stated at the start of that massive wall of text that I’m merely stating my opinion. I sense you’re a Sand Snake fan which is cool but for the record I don’t like them and think they’re incredibly pointless so far. Sure they could get important later on but so could the Greyjoys, Griffs, Benjen, Hodor or even Fat Walda! I think if you ask GRRM then there’s probably no character that he doesn’t deem important or that doesn’t have some role to play.

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    41. Greatjon of Slumber:

      Does anyone else think they’re trying to intentionally be quieter about it than in the past? I only also say it because it was really strange to see that hooded figure next to Maisie Williams wearing some kind of mask…someone who could have been the Waif, or Jaqen. No news yet on Unella, Maggie, Melara, Varamyr, to say nothing of those we might lose entirely, et cetera.

      I think that it’s certainly a likely possibility. Game of Thrones has never been a bigger phenomenon than it is at the present moment – by certain metrics, you could make the case that it’s the most popular show in the world (I’m sure that the actual holder of that title by conventional standards is something like CSI, but … come on). We’re reaching a sensitive point in the adaptation process with the amount of source material rapidly diminishing, and based on what they said at Comic-Con, it’s clear that Benioff and Weiss do not want to divulge their plans for future of the show before we have the chance to actually see how their work will play out on screen (aside from a few bones they’ve tossed the ravenous media like “There will be Dorne”).

      With that in mind, I could definitely see the production team pressuring casting agencies to operate with the greatest degree of secrecy possible – perhaps even keeping Game of Thrones off the actors’ CV for as long as possible (at least until they’ve finished shooting). They’re probably also encouraging any yet-to-be-publicly confirmed cast members to stay off social media. I seem to recall that around the time that news of Keisha Castle-Hughes being cast as a Sand Snake first leaked, she had posted something on her Twitter account that seemed to serve as indirect confirmation. Shortly after that … her Twitter account disappeared. 😉 Lo and behold, after her casting was confirmed at Comic-Con, her Twitter account was back up and running.

      With regards to certain confirmed characters like the Waif, Septa Unella, Jaqen, and Maggy the Frog, I wouldn’t be surprised if another reason that we haven’t heard anything about them is because they’ve been filming most of their scenes so far in Belfast on closed interior sets, which are much easier to contain. And with Northern Ireland’s growing film and television production industry, it’s not as easy as it used to be to simply spot an actor in Belfast and figure out what project they’re actually working on.

      I can’t really say that blame the production team for being so secretive – in fact, I admire their approach. If I were making a massively popular TV show with a tenacious fanbase – many of whom have a roadmap for how they think the story simply has to go – I would certainly prefer that the audience actually judged the final product on screen rather than latching on to a fragment of information, extrapolating, and forming preconceived expectations or biases that could ultimately affect how they see the work. We do it here at WOTW because it’s fun and we keep it respectful. Most other forums … aren’t so well-behaved.

      For the record, Benioff and Weiss have stated that they no longer read online forums and breakdowns devoted to the show – and to that I say good for them, as they’re got enough stress in their lives. But they aren’t blind and deaf. I’m certain that they’ve seen and heard the radioactive fallout that got spewed all over the Internet with regards to LS, Arianne & Company, and most recently the “Bran or no Bran?” business. It’s one thing from them to say that they’re not going to let audience feedback/backlash affect the way that you approach your job. It’s another to actually do that and still do their jobs well. The best approach that they can take is keep their heads down and try and keep such instigating leaks to a minimum. That’s what they appear to be doing. Hopefully it works out, and the show remains as great as it’s been for the past four seasons going forward.

      All that being said … GIVE US CASTING NEWS! The Beast must be fed. 🙂

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    42. A Man Grown:
      Veltigar,
      Brazil is one of the best movies ever.

      I strongly agree. I would love to see Terry Gilliam with a short cameo in GoT.

      jentario:
      ….Septa Lemore is a pair of tits and no more. Penny is annoying as hell and what little worked about her in the books would end up looking pretty ridiculous in the show (two dwarfs in loveeeeee).

      Where is Ashara D when you need her? Septa Lemore is one of those many mysteries within ASoI&F that readers get to speculate about….but since she hung out with the Griffs, I would presume that she is more than a pretty face. It’s more fun that way, right?

      I can go on for hours about the significance of Penny, dwarf or not. Penny is a personification of Tyrion’s dark, wandering soul post-ASoS. She is both a metaphor for his dark journey and his odd inspiration. She has been “without” all her life, obviously disadvantaged and another victim of the “game of thrones” (via her brother’s demise). Tyrion’s desolate but curious mind would naturally be inclined to bond with her (and the other discarded one, Jorah) on his journey to Meereen, which makes that part of Tyrion’s “heart of darkness” journey a good read (but probably not good TV…for the most part).

      Without going into sordid detail about her many “built-in” characteristics that affect and compliment Tyrion’s shift in demeanor, Penny’s presence in ADwD is truly endearing. Whether or not she matters in the end is for GRRM to decide, but Tyrion needs her words and pathos in order to get past/handle his own, treat with Dany, grow past his family and entitlements, and get back to Westeros. (imho!)

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    43. Greatjon of Slumber, When you say

      “It could be that the primary role Arianne plays in the rest of the story relates to Aegon,”

      I think you’re right on.

      I’ve long believed Arianne’s “purpose” in the story is to marry Aegon, and the Sand Snakes’ purpose is to murder Tommen and Myrcella. If D&D have cut Aegon, but intend to keep Dorne and the Sand Snakes’ role in Cersei’s certain downfall, this is why they may have kept the Sand Snakes rather than Arianne.

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    44. jentario,

      The “Griffs” matter. There will be another “dance of dragons”, only this time there is the Stark factor. While the Lannisters (particularly Cersei) will provide the clusterfuck, they will hardly matter in the end game. Ice & Fire.

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    45. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Veltigar,
      My basic point stands. Beauty is subjective. You think they are less attractive a lot of people would argue otherwise. Either way, I don’t think it’s debateable that they’ve been tailored to be more appealing to a TV audience.

      No, they really havent (except Obara). In the books, Tyene is a gorgeous blond (with an otherwordly innocence about her) and Nymeria is a hot lesbian Latina. Apart from casting actresses who aren’t as knock-out gorgeous and probably changing Tyene’s weapons, how did D&D change them to ‘be more appealing to a TV-audience’.

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    46. Touch of Frost,

      I stated at the start of that massive wall of text that I’m merely stating my opinion. I sense you’re a Sand Snake fan which is cool but for the record I don’t like them and think they’re incredibly pointless so far. Sure they could get important later on but so could the Greyjoys, Griffs, Benjen, Hodor or even Fat Walda! I think if you ask GRRM then there’s probably no character that he doesn’t deem important or that doesn’t have some role to play.

      Nah, I’m mainly just a fan who is too sceptical to get involved in all the speculation business, trying to decipher future directions of the story based on the crumbs of information we get. I have noticed that a lot of you guys really enjoy it though (and understand it is just speculation). Carry on 😉

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    47. Jared,

      Well written. Lots of good points. And yes. They have to keep their heads down. Because as soon as they start to doubt themselves, it’s the end. For them, for the clever little twats, for everybody. 🙂

      Hodor’s Bastard: but since she hung out with the Griffs, I would presume that she is more than a pretty face. It’s more fun that way, right?

      Yes. And it would be also nice to just not reduce her to a “pair of tits.”

      Veltigar: No, they really havent (except Obara). In the books, Tyene is a gorgeous blond (with an otherwordly innocence about her) and Nymeria is a hot lesbian Latina.

      Well put. Obara’s the only one who is meant to be more physically unattractive and imposing, and never mind the beauty factor — Keisha Castle-Hughes has such a sense of grace and presence that when you can come up with a casting coup like that, you don’t let it go. The moment she steps on screen, she, like Pedro Pascal, Paul Kaye and Carice van Houten, is going to seem like she’s been on the show all along. It is known.

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    48. Veltigar,

      You’ve named many reasons in your post alone to make them more suitable for a TV audience.
      – Obara goes froms big-boned, not very attractive, 30 year old to younger attractive character.
      – Nym goes from attractive white/olive -skinned (depending on which book description you believe!) beauty in her mid 20s to a younger-looking still attractive lass of South East Asian decent.
      – Tyene goes from an innocent-looking blonde fair-skinned girl who knows about poisons to an olive-skinned dark-haired (unless they change that) girl who uses daggers.

      Why would have made these changes other than to better fit the TV show or appeal to a wider demographic ( as the very deliberate casting of Areo Hotah shows they are inclined to do)?
      It’s not that I mind the changes as the Sand Snakes are so underdeveloped in the books it doesn’t really matter and won’t change their character (what there is of it) in any significant way but they’ve definately tweeked them to broaden their appeal.

      Hodorkovski,

      Hey, we all get enjoyment out of it in different ways! 🙂

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    49. I’ve heard people say before that the show will start to get to a point where it spoils the books. I think that that is true and not necessarily for what’s shown on the show, but what ISN’T shown. I don’t know if they plan on cutting the Griffs entirely, but if they do then that might speak volumes to their importance (or lack there of) to the overall story. If they are actually cut, then it might give more credence to the fAegon theory.

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    50. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yeah, I specifically excluded Obara from my comment. Don’t know why you bring her up. Nymeria is definitely more exotic looking, GRRM has admitted the earlier description was a mistake when he said to Janina Gavankar that she was the spitten image of Nym.

      Tyene was probably changed because blonde and blue-eyed was hard to sell as a daughter of Oberyn. I have no idea why they changed her weapons to daggers, but since Nym hasn’t mentioned her own kit, they might have switched equipment.

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    51. Really starting to be upset by the Griffs' exclusion. That story is, to me, the most interesting and most keeping with GRRM’s stated desire to undercut standard fantasy tropes—if, as suspected, (f)Aegon takes the throne with real legitimacy despite being a total fraud. And it fits perfectly with Varys’ speech to Tyrion in Season Two, about “Power resides where men believe it resides.”

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    52. Andrew,

      Just before the comments section, there’s a gray box that’s titled Spoiler Alert. You can find instructions on how to cover spoilers. Sorry, I tried to type the code here but it’s not appearing properly.

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    53. Andrew,

      If Aegon really is gone in the show, then he will not end up in the Iron Throne in the books. D&D know the ending, and how they adapt from now on will tell us much about the endgame.

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    54. LukaNieto

      I don’t think the show is going to spoil everything important from the future books. But i accept that it may be wishful thinking by me.

      TheTouchOfFrost

      Yeah, my earlier comment came from a place of ignorance about the quantity and quality of dwarf actresses available. Still, it’s a small subset to choose from compared to most others.

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    55. Veltigar,

      Brought her up as a third of something is quite a large part! Not sure why Tyene being fair would be that much of a push when we know he’s spent a lot of time in Westeros. Nym being South East Asian is surely harder to explain seeing as there doesn’t seem to be anywhere in the fantasy world there that definately relates to that part of the world in reality (perhaps Yi Ti, maybe Ulthos although hardly anything is known about it other than it’s mainly clad in jungles). Either way, it’s no harder or easier to explain than him having a blonde daughter. So why the change? I’m equally puzzled as why they’ve decided to make Tyene a warrior with daggers. Doesn’t match with her deceptively innocent depiction. But hey if they make them more interesting than the books I won’t complain.

      Fjordgazer,

      Point taken but there must be lots of dwarf actresses ready to jump at the chance to take such a role if it came up. I think the roles a lot of little people get offered are very limited as Peter Dinklage himself has been frustrated by in his career.

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    56. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I belive they changed Tyene phisically because they made her Ellaria’s daughter, and a blonde actress would simply not be believable in that scenario. I particularly loved the casting for Nym, her mother was from Volantis in the book, if I recall correctly, but they just mentioned “eastern noblewoman” so far at the show’s description, so they may change it, but we really don’t know the “common” physical traits of every free city, so we can’t know how they all look. And not everybody must have a specific appearence related to their region, these steriotypes are usually wrong (e.g. all germans are blonde and blue-eyed, all people from south america have black hair and eyes and tanned skin, etc) so her having some asian traces does not mean she cannot be from Volantis, for example. IMO of course. I’m really looking forward for season 5, it’ll be interesting.

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    57. Hodor’s Bastard:

      Penny is a personification of Tyrion’s dark, wandering soul post-ASoS. She is both a metaphor for his dark journey and his odd inspiration. She has been “without” all her life, obviously disadvantaged and another victim of the“game of thrones” (via her brother’s demise).Tyrion’s desolate but curious mind would naturally be inclined to bond with her (and the other discarded one, Jorah) on his journey to Meereen, which makes that part of Tyrion’s “heart of darkness” journey a good read (but probably not good TV…for the most part).

      Without going into sordid detail about her many “built-in” characteristics that affect and compliment Tyrion’s shift in demeanor, Penny’s presence in ADwD is truly endearing. Whether or not she matters in the end is for GRRM to decide, but Tyrion needs her words and pathos in order to get past/handle his own, treat with Dany, grow past his family and entitlements,and get back to Westeros. (imho!)

      That’s eloquently put HB. I always thought that Penny is Tyrion’s light through his “heart of darkness” voyage and his nemesis at the same time. She, by simply existing alongside him for the journey, forces Tyrion to consider his condition as a privileged dwarf versus the low born, and at the same time confronts his jaded persona with the innocence she still holds about many things however annoying and burdensome Tyrion finds that.

      After “I am guilty of being a dwarf” it would have been interesting to see his connection to Penny. He’s never been around anyone like him long enough to relate and at the same time to make a distinction on how life really is for those of them who don’t have the Lannister gold.

      Anyway, I found the character endearing just like you. She’s soft and humble, yet resilient. She bends but not breaks. Partly because of Tyrion (that’s true) but even in that, it is two way street. I’ll miss her.

      Jorah though will be around. Am excited to see Ian and Peter together in what will no doubt be a great duo.

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    58. RandomSand,

      I believe that’s exactly why they chose Tyene to look like she does, because instead of being the daughter of a blue-eyed, blonde Septa, they changed her mother to Ellaria. As for all the Sand Snakes together, I’d guess they went with the actresses they felt would be best for the roles/gave the best auditions, who also, as a group, looked like they could all be half-sisters. To my eye, at least, they accomplished that.

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    59. RandomSand,

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      That makes sense if it’s true but it’s the four youngest Sand Snakes that are Ellaria’s. It just seems a bit odd changing Tyene from a not-traditional-looking-Dornish Westerosi who’s the daughter of a Septa to what she is now if

      like in the books she is going to infiltrate the church

      . I mean it’s not impossible for her to do it in her current incarnation but it doesn’t seem to fit as well. Nym was the daughter of a Volantese noblewomen so although it’s not impossible for her to look South East Asian ( is Oriental non-PC? I don’t want to offend anyone but it’s so much easier to help isolate which part of Asia I’m talking about!) from what we know about Volantis it appears to be very much influenced by Macedonia plus Talisa ( who has already been introduced in the show) is also the daughter of a noblewoman from there and looks olive-skinned but still pretty European (perhaps that could be reason why they’re changing Nym a bit?). By the same token, who’s to say a Dornish person can’t have blonde hair and fair skin? Spain, which is a large influence on Dorne, is predominantly white with the Catalonian region perhaps being darker-skinned from their Moorish descent.
      Although I think the deliberate targetting of a certain ethnicity ( in the case or Areo, the waif and perhaps the Sandsnakes) is quite insulting to the people of the demographic they are trying to appeal to ( it assumes that they will only watch shows because it features people from their own culture which I think is very wrong) , I can put aside that minor frustration if the people they’ve picked for the roles deliver. Add in that anything they do with the Sand Snakes can’t fail to be more interesting than their book counterparts!

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    60. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Actually, most of the POC who watch GOT are happy when they see someone of their ethnicity cast on the show. I mean, I’ve never met a white person who’s like “hey, this show is full of white people, they’re trying to pander to me, it’s annoying.” Tokenism is what happens when you put one black extra in an all-white crowd and spend lots of time focusing on her face. Writing well-developed characters who are POC is called diversity.

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    61. BrightroarsBane,

      If what you’re saying is ‘if it’s a well-written character then why does their ethnicity matter?’ then I throw the same thing back at you! I’ve watched many a film with no white people in and enjoyed them and would happily watch a show without any in if it was of good quality. There’s the risk of labelling all POC (which is a very blanket term anyway) as the same. For those who are happy to see someone of their ethnicity…why? Not having a go, but America (for such a socially developed country) still seems very pre-occupied with race and it’s hard to comprehend for someone who lives outside of there. I’m all for natural diversity but when it’s forced I think it’s actually counter-productive to the ideal that ethnicity doesn’t matter.

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    62. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I agree. Penny has a very important role in Tyrion’s story in ADwD. (I also think the desperate and rejected Jorah has a protagonist reflection thing going). Penny harkens back to book 1 Tyrion’s attitude toward broken things. There’s tension in whether he can recapture/retain that waning part of himself and look after her or let her go by the wayside, whether he rejects parts of himself, and how his life would’ve gone had he not been from an aristocratic family. I actually thought she was one of the better parts of ADwD (though I think Theon’s story is my favorite in that book).

      I am actually sad if she is cut. If she is cut, I think another character will need to function in some of her role as I think the direction Tyrion goes from here is dependent on whether Penny (and what she represents re: parts of Tyrion) survives the comming battle.

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    63. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I know in the books it is only the 4 youngest Sand Snakes who are Ellaria’s daughters, but they chose to make Tyene her daughter, too. I’d guess this was because they are expanding Ellaria’s role in the show, and to make one of the featured Sand Snakes her daughter, as opposed to all being her step-daughters, raises the stakes for Ellaria. If you put Oberyn and Ellaria (as they appear in the show) together, you aren’t going to get blonde hair and blue eyes.
      As for “the deliberate targeting of a certain ethnicity,” I just don’t see them casting Jessica Henwick as Nymeria simply so they can say, “hey, we cast a girl who is part Chinese.”

        Quote  Reply

    64. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I thought it was a good dynamic that Ellaria didn’t have as much control over them because they weren’t her own children and added a natural conflict as well as their differing points of view. I think Ellaria’ stakes in it are already high for her four youngest and the fact her love has been killed. Seems like a needless change to me but we’ll see how it pans out. Still unsure why they needed to give her knives and make her a warrior?
      Well, they deliberately went out to cast a certain ethnicity for Areo and the Waif so I wouldn’t say for certain. Only reason I can think they might have gone for her over a more Nym-looking Nym is because of her Wushu background…although I’m not certain that that’s essential as Pedro proved!

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    65. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Your opinion is that it is a needless change, and my opinion is if they are going to expand Ellaria’s role, which it seems like they are, I like the change. We’ll just have to have different opinions on it. Back to Nymeria, maybe her martial arts background did have something to do with them choosing her for the part, maybe it’s that she gave the best reading, maybe it’s a combination. Maybe my perception is a bit off, but it seems like you’re really focused on the fact the actress is part Chinese. I, personally, don’t think that has anything to do with it. To me, they needed someone with an exotic look. They found someone. Do you think they cast Keisha Castle Hughes because she’s part Maori?

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    66. I just had a thought based on the news about Lhara- I wonder if Saan/his ship will take on the role of transporting Sam and Gilly. Would make sense now that Stannis is at the Wall that Saan might provide transport to and from there.

      Only wrinkle I see is the fact that Saan engages in piracy on the side.

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    67. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Again, it’s personal preference but I’m not sure why Ellaria’s role really needs much expansion. I can’t see her being an massively important character going forward and for me is just a character for others to interact with.
      I’m pretty sure that the casting call had a certain type of person in mind when they did readings so would have known what kind of look they wanted for the actress at least roughly so as not to waste time cast-calling as many girls. Not focussing on, just wondering if it played a part in her casting as, as I’ve mentioned before, they’ve purposely been looking for characters of certain ethnicities for some roles. Keisha is only half Maori and importantly she doesn’t really have a distinctive look from a racial standpoint. Indira Varma (Ellaria) is half Indian half Swiss/Italian, born and raised in England. Again she had quite a non-descript look and is a good actress so stepped into the role easily.
      Stated before I don’t really care what they do with the Sand Snakes ( as long as they don’t detract from other characters) so I have no issue with the ethnicity changes just wondering what the motivation behind them is which I guess , unless any of us work on casting or producing the show, we’ll never really know for sure.

        Quote  Reply

    68. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I really just think they were going for exotic. Jessica Henwick being part Chinese is no different, imo, than Keisha or Indira being part Maori or Indian. I also disagree that Keisha and Indira don’t have distinctive looks, or that their looks are less distinctive than Jessica’s. Maybe it’s because I live in an area where there are lots of people who are part Asian from various countries (China, Japan, Vietnam, and Korea, specifically).

        Quote  Reply

    69. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      What does really interest me is even when trying to go exotic they still employ so many English/British actors! I mean being English it does make me proud but it is quite odd. I didn’t mean non-distinctive as an insult. More in that if you were only given their looks it would be hard to place their ethnicity. I think Jessica’s looks are only more distinctive because there are no other characters with South East Asian descent in the show at the moment.
      On a sidenote, Miss Henwick reminds me a lot of one of my best friends. They both share a mixed English/Chinese heritage, look very similar and have well-spoken but not posh English accents (especially since my buddy has picked up a southern twang to her voice since she moved down to London!).

        Quote  Reply

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