Because you know somebody gonna die…
It’s difficult to fathom that we now sit at the brink of the long dark night of off-season drought. Yet, here we are.
Welcome to the final in-season Looking Forward for Season 6. It’s time for the often imitated and somewhat loosely duplicated Official Death Odds for the final episode of Season 6 of Game of Thrones.
The stage is set for one hell of a finale and as you are fully aware, not everyone can be left standing after a GoT finale. Who will live to see Season 7? Your guess is probably better than mine…
Final in-season LF disclaimers:
Disclaimer #1: At various times in my illustrious career of maneuvering life events, I have made the recurring mistake of outkicking my coverage (translation: a man puts too much on his plate and can’t eat it all). This past week in the life of Oz, I did just that and as a result, this installment of LF will be much shorter than normal. In fact, a man brings you this abbreviated final installment after receiving the mother of all guilt trips by Sue the Fury (and God help you if the Fury rains down upon you). Sue pushes a man, and that is a good thing.
Disclaimer #2: There have been no scientific studies conducted (that I am aware of) that measure the outcomes of all past Death Odds editorials authored by yours truly. Sounds like a good off-season project. But I can promise you that it’s probably not good. So take it with a grain of salt throne.
All of this is pure Unsullied speculation at it’s worst. So here goes…
I like to alternate between Vegas-style odds and weather related precipitation percentages. In the battle of temperature, fire is currently winning over the ice in the U.S. So I have opted for percentages (because it’s damn hot).
So, without further adieu, here are a man’s best guesses on probabilities regarding a few characters and their respective percentage chance of meeting their end during the season finale. Feel free to disagree and/or add characters not mentioned below in the comments.
Arya, Bran or Sansa: 5%
Let’s be honest… these three didn’t make it as far as they have to die off right before the end game really begins. It would be a dramatic twist if one of them did, but it is highly unlikely. Bran has more visions to go and is of obvious importance to wherever the story may be leading. Arya may already be on a boat and will perhaps be arriving back at a dock in Westeros by the end of the episode. And Sansa is protected by Jon and is presumably being rushed into ANOTHER marriage with Pedofinger. Rickon didn’t zig, but all the remaining Stark kids zag and make it to S7.
If the prophecies of the swamp witch are true, then Tommen is on borrowed time as it is. If mommy does decide to light the whole neighborhood up, it could be triggered not only by the outcome of her trial but possibly someone harming the only child she has left. Or maybe…
You have to wonder about Cersei’s intentions. Can she pull off the barbecue while somehow managing to escape the militant? Or when things don’t go her way, will she be willing to sacrifice herself and Tommen when Qyburn lights the fuse? It wouldn’t be the first time she’s thought about it. Remember the poison in Blackwater?
Margaery and Loras: ??%
The truth is, I don’t know. I just know that the implied outcome could mean doom for both. But I think it will be more like The Bachelor’s final rose… one stays, one goes.
Not sure what’s transpiring between Jamie and Walder Frey but something tells me that all is not necessarily well at the Twins. Regardless of what happens there, Jaime survives and is most likely left wondering what to do once King’s Landing morphs into baked Alaska.
Red Velvet: 25%.
Mel is in hot water with daddy Davos and rightfully so. But I seriously doubt that Jon is going to order the execution of the person responsible for bringing him back to life. I’m thinking more along the lines of punishment… perhaps Jon sentences her to an eternity of life without the magic necklace. Of course, that is probably a death sentence in itself.
Many believe that Sunday night may be the final chapter in the Petyr Baelish manipulation saga. I respectfully disagree, although I am giving him a 50/50 shot only as it relates to the rest of the crew in his surroundings. If anyone is going to die post Battle of the Bastards at Winterfell, Lysakiller probably has the highest likelihood. But I’m not buying it, yet. Petyr and Varys will have at least one more face-to-face before this party is over.
Wait, whaaaat? With Game of Thrones, sometimes you have to pull one out of your ass. And this is my wild card. After the crawfish boil of the Masters last week, the situation looks to be manageable while sailing preparations are likely being made. But this is when GoT stabs you in the abs when you’re not looking. There has been something untrustworthy about Daario for a while and although his death scenario is very unlikely, there’s still one more twist to come from Meereen before Dany heads over to Westeros.
The preseason favorite to be dead by the end of season six looks like he’s going to survive after all. All I’m hoping for at this point is to get a status report on where he is and how his search for the cure is going.
You have my word that if Lancel survives the season finale, I will never again speculate as to the death of Lancel sandwich. The guy snuck off at the end of season two with an injury and managed to survive up until this point. Who is to say he can’t sneak away again? Is Lancel the real Prince that was promised?
There’s no indication that Edd is in any kind of imminent danger, other than his location and the title of the upcoming episode. The Winds of Winter could refer to a number of topics depicted throughout the ep. But considering the suggestive episode title and being at the end of the season, a white walker appearance seems probable. And the next logical stop (and roadblock) for the frozen dead is the Wall.
Seal the tunnel Edd. It might not matter, but seal the f’n tunnel anyway.
Beyond that, a man will leave you with this: This is it, kiddos. Savor it. Take it all in. Enjoy the big-screen treatment on your small screens at home. At times, Thrones has provided us with so many immensely shocking moments that when we don’t get one, we are prone to do an impression of spoiled brats followed by nitpicking imperfections.
Let’s not do that. Let’s not be those people. Let’s put it in perspective and enjoy this for what it is… an amazingly entertaining and sometimes controversial imperfect television show.
I won’t argue that GoT is the best show on television. It is a subjective statement that can only be decided by the individual viewer. I personally believe it is. But we can all agree that there is nothing else on television quite like it. And in the very near future, it will be over.
Don’t swallow it whole. Enjoy every bite. For after Sunday night, we’ll all be starving again for at least nine months.
Cheers guys and gals! See you all Monday morning for the final Unsullied recap of the season. Until then, be nice to each other, and may there always be peace in your realm. -Oz
Speculation welcome. Official preview thoughts welcome. LEAK SPOILERS UNWELCOME!
Find Oz on Twitter.
**SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leak) are not allowed in Unsullied posts. This includes spoilers that may be covered by code or otherwise. Personally, I appreciate feedback from Sullied and Unsullied alike, so long as they do not include any type of hinting or conversation related to the written verse. However, spoiler coded comments do tend to lead to further Sullied conversation and for that reason, we ask that you please refrain from posting any SPOILERY content whatsoever in Unsullied posts. Thank you for the coop. -Oz
“The final rose of The Bachelor…” Oz, I love your posts.
I do think we’ll see the end of Loras here. I just really hope that Margaery makes it out.
Give us your thoughts… no way I could cover every character this week. Go for it!
Since someone already did not read the spoiler warning:
We’ll delete any post that contains spoilers in this post comment thread. This is an Unsullied post, no spoilers whatsoever.
I think both Tyrell siblings, the Sparrow, Lancel and septa Unella are done for.
Tommen will also croak, I’m sure.
Jaime and Cersei are safe, come on. Same with the Starks (at least for now).
My bet is that Olenna will seek an alliance with the dornish, and maybe Varys too. So next season a Tyrell/Dorne/Targaryen army will topple the Lannisters, or whatever is left of their forces (I assume most of the Lannister soldiers are still in the Riverlands and therefore safe from the barbecue?).
Death list tops for me are the high sparrow, Tommen, and some Freys (but not Walder).
I’m also still very worried about Podrick. Less worried about Brienne but it could happen.
I think Marg dies & Loras lives, or both die. I just don’t think the Tyrells are that important anymore. Could be wrong of course.
high sparrow 80% coz he is both in the kill radar for Tyrells and cersei so he goes
I also think walder frey is most likely dead ….I will put him around 90 percent …
and umm Mel. ……don’t know Davos won’t kill her but ……her guilt might..she may kill herself …We saw her satisfied ..I’ve done my work face last episode and ….Davos found the toy ..He will not let her easy …..so Mel ….is about 40% for me
I feel like if we see the characters in Dorne again… One of them might die.
I like the theories I have seen for a while with Tommen being killed by The Mountain, a wrong word and it may be fly swat time using Tommen’s still attached crown.
With all the wildfire hints throughout the season, I cannot see anyone who attends the trial surviving though. We can’t stop chanting “things that make you go boom” here atm in anticipation. But I can see Varys arriving and chirping to his little birds and some enjoying candied plums forgetting their task, and Loras and Margaery escaping first.
I really hope Margary and Loras survive. And I hope granny does too; I think there is unfinished business there, esp as they are part of the web that was responsible for Joffrey’s death I suspect there will be at least one conversation about it with LF. If not, a visit to Dorne and perhaps a convo with Varys might be in the works
I think Jon, Cersei and Jaime are safe, for now. and yeah, can’t wait to see what the Jaime/Frye conversation is all about, and hope that in the end there are a few less Freys in existance
ETA Im thinking if Mel goes it will be by her own hand. I don’t think Jon would let Davos kill her I think she should be dead, given what she did to Shireen no matter what her reason – it was flat out wrong.
High Sparrow is a goner. Cersei will outwit him. Maybe with Marg’s help.
Someone in Meereen is going too, based on the preview scene with Tyrion telling Dany how terrifying the Great Game is. I’d bet on Yara being killed by Euron, but Daario is a possibility too.
What a fantastic season it’s been!
My prediction is Baelish can’t die. The conversation between he and Varys early on in the throne room is WAY too important. Baelish isn’t playing the long LONG game though in that I don’t think he is even factoring in the WWs. He’s playing the long game for the throne, but that will end up being his downfall. Baelish was the short term winner at WF though. He will get in Sansa’s brain and manipulate her into doing what he wants or he leaves knowing the North poses no threat because both armies decimated each other.
Like Micah said on GoO a few weeks ago, isn’t it curious that Varys has never met Dany even though he says he serves her? He arrived after she flew off and left before she flew back. Nothing in GoT is coincidence. On that note, the little birds mentioning Varys to Qyburn earlier this season will come up before this season ends hopefully. Maybe they kill Qyburn before he can ignite the wildfire? Maybe that was who contacted Varys and that’s why he had to leave Meereen? Who can say?
One of the Sand Snakes has to show up in KL, right? If not, what a waste of screen space the entirety of Dorne ended up being in the show.
Can’t wait for tomorrow!
No way. Jon, along with Dany and Tyrion, basically have 0% chance of dying in the finale. They’re too important to the endgame, particularly Jon and Dany.
Book readers trying to add their predictions based on book spoilers: knock it off. Seriously.
Bravo, Oz, for another LF report. A girl can never express how much she loves these little things a man brings her.
Frankly, I’m all for Walder Frey dying. I am, however, waiting for the shoe to fall because it never bodes well for anyone when Walder sends his regards. Just the fact that this one is from both the Freys and the Lannisters, I have a feeling that Edmure isn’t long for this world, either.
“Winter is Coming” … I just wish it was truly here in sunny, hot Arizona. But, then, they don’t call this place the “Valley of the Sun” for no reason.
I think it would be quite something to discover Melisandre has a conscience. I really like the idea of her taking her own life out of some combination of guilt and feeling like her work is done.
Poetic justice if the mountain burns!?
How crazy it will be if no one dies?
Victoria of the Vale,
Hee yeah, most places have 6 months of winter, we have 6 months of summer. The good thing is that we don’t have to shovel sunshine, ya know? (btw where in the valley are you at?)
Since the actor/stunt guy playing the Night King is the same guy who did the badass Arthur Dayne sequences, what odds we see him swinging that ice sword with all his skills some time this episode? I’m hoping.
I also think Olenna will seek an alliance with Dorne/Daenerys and that’s why Loras has to survive because he’s the heir. Without him (in the show) the Tyrell’s are gone (assuming that Mace and Marg die) so why would Grandma survive ? What would she do in season 7 if not try to marry Loras to Daenerys ? (big conflict between Euron and the Bief…)
I think Walder and Jaime are discussing what to do with Edmure and maybe the Tully men. I’d say they hear about the retaking of Winterfell and Walder wants to send Edmure’s or Blackfish’s head to Jon and Sansa but that Jaime objects/wants to keep his word. I don’t think it’ll end in deaths just yet?
I really do feel like Littlefinger is at least 85%. The clip of him being confronted in the snow and looking unhappy has had him on my radar all season. In the preview for the next ep, he approaches Sansa in the godswood, not the other way around. So it’s not Sansa in the original trailer. Anyone else confronting him in the godswood can be no good for him. I don’t think he’s important to the rest of the story either. He was very important when it was all about politics but now that it’s going to be coming down to saving all of humanity, he is expendable and serves no purpose for Act 2.
Oh boy, first comment, first spoiler.
I think the most obvious one to die is Tommen. It’s basically the most logical outcome of Cersei’s entire story. But seriously, who gets the Iron Throne if he dies??? Is it seriously Jaime Lannister??
The death of the last “son” of Robert Baratheon is a real good time for Dany to show up 😉
I can’t make any predictions, but I wish this episode will be the end of the Sparrows (the lot of them) and the Freys (women and children excepted).
And Cersei, I have had enough of her and can’t see what reason is there for her to go on plot-wise.
I also thought Loras was a goner, but Zig has a point. On the other hand, maybe the Tyrells are done with.
Daario, I have not thought about him but it is true that his demise, in one way or the other, would make Dany sad, plus I don’t see him making it to Westeros for some reason.
By the way, Oz, just to do my French Stannis, and although it may sound presumptuous from someone who is a non native speaker of the English language, the expression is “without further ado”. You know, like in “much ado about nothing”.
Ser Arthur Dayne was played by actor Luke Roberts. In seasons 4 & 5, the Night’s King was played by Richard Brake and in this season, by Vladmir Furdik. Given Roberts’ looks and swordplay skills, however, I’d love to see him swing anything in a future GoT episode.
Never mind – keltia beat me to it
I’m also in the valley of the long summer, North Phoenix. When I wear my “Let it Snow” t-shirt with the crow on it, people think I’m complaining about the heat.
Please just don’t leave the Tower of Joy on a cliffhanger.
If most of these predicted deaths occur, next week’s “Beautiful Death” poster will have to be a collage.
I have no idea who will die. Speculation sure but it is so up in the air with this show. I know who I don’t want to die – Yara, any Stark, Tyrion, Cersei (I want that to be an episode 9 death next season), Marg, Olenna, Varys, Sandor, Edd, Davos and Littlefinger.
I want another battle of wits between Varys and LF, so no, save them both!
I want LF’s death to be because of his betrayal of Ned.
I want Varys to make it to the end.
I wonder why so many believe Cersei will die. To me Cersei has always been the main antagonist. Storywise she is the one we are saving up for a final reconing with.
I am convinced we will see Cerseis enemies suffer at the end of this season.
I am much more concerned for Jaimie and Brienne. There seem to be too many protagonists alive at this point.
Also Cersei seems to be the destructive hurricane, creating chaos and destroying friends and enemies around her.
Until the seer womans predictions comes true, and another Queen more beautiful defeats her. She herself is convinced it is Margery, but I think she will defeat Margery, and it is Daenerys that finaly defeats her.
I think Tommen will probably go as will Walder Frey. Cersei will probably survive to be the main villain aside from white walkers next season. Littlefinger is like a cockroach… I don’t think he’ll die either.
Littlefinger isn’t going anywhere. Now that Ramsay is gone, the show needs a new troublemaker in the North.
How can I spoil anything when I have no idea what’s going to happen? I’m just making guesses like everyone else.
I think Walder Frey will offer Jamie to marry one of his daughters etc. since Jamie can marry now and the house Lannister needs an heir. It seems unlikely that Jamie would accept, but maybe he recognize he needs an heir and he needs a castle to give to Bron. So maybe Riverrun?? since the Freys lost it to the blackfish a.s.o. A lot of maybe but all I can think of in the Riverland Storyline.
I Think the Faith Militant and it´s loyalists are done so High Sparrow, Unella, Tommen, Margaery and Pycelle are going to die. I don´t know why but after his encounter with the Mountain I see Lancel surviving somehow.
I imagine Loras is done for. Maybe he will heroically refuse to ask for forgiveness and her executed. He’s always been a high prospect for death – an important character but far from a main one. After he is executed, does Margery stay at Sept and wait to get BBQ’d (allegedly?) Maybe my affection for Natalie Dormer is blinding me to Margery’s fate, but it feels odd to me that she would go from being the main rival of Cersei to being a casualty of Cersei’s conflict with High Sparrow. She could very well die but I hope she lives to die next season.
But High Sparrow, Tommen, Kevan, Lancel, Pycelle…all of the men who have been obstacles to Cersei, they are gone. I think she will try to save Tom men but he will reject her and her himself killed somehow, maybe by Mountain.
It will not happen but I would love to see Littlefinger getting killed by Sweet Robin. The training with Royce has to lead to something.
I wonder of maybe Margery will survive, and she will be pregnant with Tommen’s kid. Would explain why they had a scene explicitly about Margery and Tommen having sex. I dunno it seems weird to me that the least prominent and least entertaining Tyrell is the one who would survive. Maybe the Tyrells are finished, but if they continue on, I think it is more likely Margery survives than Loras for narrative reasons.
I think Marg won’t survive this season. For me, that scene with Olenna felt too much like a goodbye.
Loras will survive I think. Yes, the actor have another show coming out. Nym Sand’s actress is in that show too and I don’t think Nym or any other snakes dies this season. If Nym survives, Loras surely can survive too and vice versa (both regulars and that show already in filming stage)
Mace dies for sure.
Lysakiller . LOL Oz, you’ll be on Littlefinger’s case forever, won’t you? That’s hilarious.
Unfortunately, I think he, like many reptiles, has the ability to slither under the closest rock and survive just about anything. I imagine we will see him at the very end, flicking snow and ash from his sleeve and glancing around at the surviving women, trying to determine which of them he can turn into whores so he can start anew.
However, I hope the HS checks out permanently – unless he, too, slithers beneath a rock – oh, but I just remembered Tyrion saying caches of wildfire were hidden beneath the Sept and all the major thoroughfares. Not too many places for him to hide if Cersei is tipped over the edge.
I kind of think one of the minor themes is the ending of houses. wiping them from the books, and the tenuous hold the remaining houses have from which they might recover. The Boltons are done and gone. Plus the Giants are now gone and the Children of the Forest. (Not exactly houses, but just as gone. ) I think both Lancel and Kevan Lannister, and Loras and Mace are done.
This pretty much ends House Tyrell, as throughout the series it’s been repeated that “Loras is the future of our house.” And with Lancel and Kevan gone, that leaves Jaime and Tyrion as the only surviving Lannister males to continue the name. There was another male Lannister cousin, but Jaime killed him attempting to escape from Robb. So, if Jaime stays with Cersei and doesn’t father children from another woman, that leaves the mighty Lannister name to be continued by … Tyrion. Tywin is twisting in his grave. Sadly, if Jon isn’t made a Stark, and there’s no sign yet that he will be, I guess we can consider the mighty Stark name gone, as well. That’s assuming that Bran will be busy with Weirnet and unable to father children. Which may mean that Jon will take the Stark name if someone in charge offers to bestow it again.
As far as handsome Dario, I don’t think he dies, unless it’s of a broken heart. I think Dany leaves him behind. In the beginning he asked her to either make use of him or let him go. She’s going to let him go. But I don’t think he’ll die.
Other than that, I have no idea who might survive, and don’t want to think about it too much. After all the speculation everyone did before the No One episode, when almost none of it came to pass, I’m wary of doing that again. I’ll just happily watch it as it plays out, and see you guys on here during or after.
I really don’t think it’s time for Cersei or Jaime to die yet. I feel that they have a lot of unfinished business – the issue of why she was inprisoned and what she admitted to (sleeping with Lancelot – edit: I really wanted to keep this autocorrect in, it’s amazing!) hasn’t come up at all between them yet! I’m really surprised by that and I feel Jaime needs to find that out on-screen. He has been proclaiming his love and devotion to her quite heavily this series, would he do that if he knew about Lancel? I think they’re safe for now.
Everyone else in KL however…. I am with everyone else on Tommen seeing his final episode. A part of me wonders if Margaery will somehow have a hand in his and the High Sparrow’s demise. I think Loras will be executed after his trial (maybe the timing for that is off – it would be ironic if he is given a death sentence, but somehow survives what we all think will be a fiery showdown). I also think the High Sparrow and Margaery are gonners. I hope Qyburn doesn’t escape, but have a feeling he might.
In the north, I’m pretty divided over Littlefinger meeting his end this episode. I would absolutely love it if Sansa killed him, I think that would be an amazing end to what has been a great season for her, but I fear she’s going to get well and truly into the game by marrying him instead. I really hope not!
Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Meera, Tormund, Dany and Tyriom are all pretty safe (I really hope!).
Not so sure on Davos and Mel. I was so happy last week when Davos survived the battle, but as he held that burnt stag and stared in fury at Mel, I felt such an intense worry for him!! I really don’t want him to die. I agree with a lot of you in that I don’t think Jon will be able to sentence the woman that brought him back to like to die. I’m a bit anxious about that whole situation to be honest.
Lastly, I have some worrying feelings about Meereen too. I don’t think anything’s going to happen to Dany and Tyrion, but everyone else up there is a concern. I have suspicions about Daario too and I’m worried for Missandei and Grey Worm somehow getting caught up in a plot to kill Dany. Even though it’s totally illogical and that Euron wouldn’t have time to build one ship, let alone hundreds, I do worry something is going to happen to Theon or Yara.
So a pretty bleak outlook for deaths. This season has felt too good. Other than Hodor, Fat Walda, somewhat for Rickon (though he’d been gone too long for me to be truly invested) and maybe, possibly, the Blackfish, just because be was cool, I haven’t been too emotionally affected by any of the deaths this season, I feel like the classic GOT soccer punch to my heart is coming and I’m scared! I don’t think Hodor’s death is enough for one season when considering GOT’s track record. I mean I’ve only fully wept once as of yet, that’s an all time low record 🙂
Can’t wait till 2am!!! Going to be a long day and night, but there is no way in hell I’m missing this one.
My predicted deaths:
– 95% likely one of Loras or Marge will die, but I put it at more like 75% that BOTH will go. On the one hand I don’t see how anyone will escape the likely inferno without knowing it is about to happen, but on the other hand I think it is a far juicier story if a Tyrell survives to carry out the bitter resolution of Cersei’s actions.
– 95% likely that all of Tommen, the High Sparrow, Pycelle, Kevan, Lancel and thousands of nameless KL residents will go. Only Cersei, Qyburn and the Mountain will survive of the KL cast (unless a single Tyrell manages to).
– 75% likely that at least one Frey will die. Fingers crossed that they all do, and in spectacular fashion.
– LF will make his power grab, having control of an occupying army in the North. It is possible this will lead to his death this episode, but not extremely likely. I will rate LF’s death at 30% (for now).
– Melisandre’s story seems pretty much over and Davos is mighty pissed off, but she has not seem Arya again yet, and according to what she said in season 2 they will meet again. So I will rate her death also at 30% likely (for now). The only intervening factor would be if Arya shows up in the North rather than the Riverlands, making it possible for them to meet again and then for Mel to die this episode.
– There are not many reasons why anyone in the Meereen cast would die this episode that we know of, but on the other hand a death to add a twist and some anticipation for Dany’s season 7 story would be a good thing. If I had to guess, maybe someone tries to ride a dragon and burns? Daario would be top candidate for such a silly attempt to please Dany, especially if Yara is looking like competition. 15%
– I think Beric Dondarion will die. I don’t know how, but he has far outlived his story. Perhaps Arya is in the end quite seriously injured after all (remember it took quite a while for Drogo to die from his infection) and so Beric encounters Arya and passes on his “fire” life to her, as she arrives back in Westeros nearly dead. Or, maybe he falls in the conflict with the Freys. 50%
1. I don’t think Tommen’s gonna die this season. Daenerys needs someone to fight when she comes to Westeros.
2. I’m not sure if Melisandre’s going to die this season. But I really hope so.
3. The High Sparrow, Lancel and Septa Unella are all going to bite the dust.
Sansa Stark. Arya is there also.
Tywin of the Hill,
Euron will be opponent for Daeny not Tommen. Also Cersei. White Walkers then.
Melisandre could be useful against White Walkers.
Dany versus Tommen is hardly a fight even worth building up and showing. There would ne zero anticipation because everyone would know the outcome. Nope I am dead certain Tommen will die this episode, because he will be at the sept, presiding over the trials when Cersei burns it.
Cersei will survive. She will be there for Dany to fight, as will Euron, and possibly Littlefinger. ALL make for a much more interesting fight.
Walder Frey is goner 100%. I don`t see why bring him back if not for him to be killed? I hope Arya will get job done. HS is also goner, I can`t see him survive. I hope LF get killed, I don`t see Sansa getting married again, if LF insists on marriage he is dead to.
High Sparrow: 95%
If he’s in the Sept for the trial and wildfire is unleashed, he’s got to go down surely.
I’ve been trying to figure out why he’s at the Twins and hasn’t rushed back to KL which up to now has been his agenda. All I can come up with is that news of the Starks retaking WF has reached them and Walder Frey saying “The Freys and the Lannisters send their regards” is because the Lannister forces are planning on marching on Winterfell next. Jaime looks none too pleased in photos as he just wants to go back to Cersei.
Wild guess anyway but even if that’s the plan, it’s revenge for the Red Wedding time there I think. It’s the Walder Frey scenes which have most intrigued this episode.
She’s going to see Ayra again if her dialogue back in Season 3 is anything to go by and Jon isn’t going to kill her for what she did to Shireen I don’t think. She will just say it was Stannis who commanded Shireen’s burning and her death paid for Jon’s life or something. Not that that will appease Davos who will want her banished at the very least. Jon has a problem on his hands with those two.
Are we going to lose a favourite? Probably but I can’t decide which one is most likely.
What about Theon? I think his story is about finished. Maybe he sacrifices himself to save his sister? Euron catches up to him? Tyrion said last week something to the effect of he hasn’t been punished because he’s still standing there alive. Just guessing but Theon dying would definitely be unexpected just because everyone is focused on the bigger characters.
I’ll only cover a few possibilities.
Littlefinger. While I’d love for him to bite it this episode, I don’t think it’s his time quite yet. For starters, Sansa’s upcoming story arc seems to be entwined with Littlefinger’s. Sansa still needs to find out that it was Littlefinger who was essentially responsible for Ned’s death. And hey, look who’s heading up North with that particular bit of knowledge, and who also has a history with Sansa? *cough*Hound*cough*
So Littlefinger lives to squirm another season.
Another prediction I have regards Walder Frey. I still think that his punishment for violating guest rights is going to be brutal, a la Rat Cook. I think Walder Frey will live to see his entire House wiped out and he’ll be the last of the Freys to die. Arya Stark will cross off Frey’s name (like Sansa did with Ramsay).
There’s simply not enough time in E10 for that to happen. And the show still need villains for S7 and S8. So I think Walder Frey lives … For now. But House Frey will get a serious amont of hurting in this episode one way or another.
The bulk of E10’s deaths are likely to be in King’s Landing. I’m 100% sure Tommen is dead king walking, and it’ll be Cersei’s fault somehow. There’s also that scene in the season trailers of a bunch of kids stabbing something, and if you’ve read the books you have a very good idea who those kids are likely stabbing. Cersei will survive, though.
Some Red priest/esse may be useful, but it need not be her.
Nice death odds Oz!
Finale already! I am excited for it and a bit sad. It’s been my favorite season so far.
I don’t know who is going to die, but somebody major is. I think it is Cersei, because I don’t see what role see can play going forward and be part of the endgame. With her the Sparrows and Tommen. Burn them all.
I’m also hoping Lysakiller will die, but probably not. I just don’t want him to marry Sansa.
It is going to be a crazy episode!
I believe that Olenna will seek that alliance, but her plans will be foiled by Cersei, who will kill her entire family. I feel that that is somehow the point of this show now: eventually it won’t matter what house you are from and what claim you have – Westeros has bigger fish to fry with the WW, and after that, if mankind survives, the old houses will not matter anymore. Right now, it matters because people need someone to follow and they are used to Lords. After the big showdown, it will be pointless. Westeros will be rebooted, so to speak.
I don’t see Sansa marrying again either. Given she’s been married twice already with terrible consequences to men she didn’t love, it doesn’t make sense to me that she would countenance marrying anyone unless she loved them. If LF wanted to marry her then she should be horrified at the prospect if her character development up to now is to be believable, surely.
High Sparrow, Lancel, Maergery (*weeps*), Tommen, Loras, Lancel, Kevin Lannister.
Oh yes, good suggestion. Oh dear ?
I was referring to your info on next season pay checks.
But nevermind, no real harm done.
She brought Jon back. I think is entirely possible that Jon will choose her over Davos. It seems like Davos will say this to Jon. It’s either him or her.
I agree largely but the only thing I can’t see happening is Cersei torching the Sept knowing Tommen is in there. Either she manages somehow to lure him out first or things go wrong for her and he dies anyway. But yes, definitely Tommen for the chop this episode.
– everyone in the sept (where the fire will start: HS, Lancel, Unella, Loras, Margaery, Mace, Kevan)
– Tommen (in the sept or as collateral, but per prophecy he has to die)
– Pycelle (it’s time and he has made an enemy of Cersei)
– Qyburn (I hope; Cersei needs to be totally alone)
– Walder Frey (why else would he be so prominent in the pictures)
– some other Freys (holding out for Red Wedding type event)
– Harald Karstark (we haven’t seen him die last episode)
– maybe Mel (by Jon as punishment, but I rather think he’ll send her away or something like that)
– the entire Nights Watch (if the Wall comes down)
– Daario (will betray Dany, I think)
– Theon (has served his purpose, but I hope I’m wrong, as he should have more of a chance to redeem himself)
Geralt of Rivia,
If you can’t see it, then you missed the foreshaddowing in the Blackwater battle. She was perfectly willing to poison him to death then rather than accept defeat, and she is willing to kill him now, now that she has clearly lost him to her rival and regaining any sort of authority for herself requires eliminating the child King who has made himself her enemy by outlawing trial by combat and becoming generally a pawn of the High Sparrow and Marge.
Geralt of Rivia,
Jon really could not care less that Mel brought him back from death. That was pretty obvious this season. He is respectful, but not exactly grateful, and everything about him and his values leans Davos, definitely not Mel. She burned a child alive. Think back to his reaction when he had to kill Olly. There is simply no way he is letting that slide.
The Frey scene is just setup for season 7
I think Jon was reborn at the battle so he’ll probaly value her action more and be grateful. He was pretty much up until this point on a suicide mission. She is needed for war against white walkers and Jon needs all help he can get. Mel will stay with Jon. Davos would never want to work with her so Jon will have to choose.
Very possibly, yes. But I do think part of that setup is for at least one Frey to die, possibly at the hands of the BWB.
I’m beginning to think that Ollena had an alliance with Dorne all along, and that Ellaria and/or Oberyn played a role in Joffs murder. Whilst LF is in the mix of course, who better to provide that poisoned necklace than the Dornish? It could even have been Doran Martell- and we may yet get a final twist in that storyline that the SSs offed the guy when he was also cooking up a plan overthrow the Lannisters.
I tend to agree Olena may be in cahoots with Dorne. It would make a lot of things make more sense.
No I didn’t miss it, she was prepared to kill him and herself so they wouldn’t be killed by Stannis. Death by poison which was instant or a gruesome death by the hand of your enemy so to speak.
Setting her son on fire isn’t something I can see her doing deliberately.
Geralt of Rivia,
All I can say is I completely disagree. But we shall see. Neither of really knows where this is going. But frankly, there is absolutely nothing that makes Mel more special than any other Red Priest(esse). Jon simply does not need her, and shows zero sign whatsoever about being happy about being alive.
And no, he was not reborn in that battle because he never died, and Mel had nothing to do with it in any case.
I like Melisandre. Yes, she’s done some terrible things, but I like her anyway. So, I hope she doesn’t die yet.
I think for many of us Game of Thrones as we know and love it is ending tonight. With the finale of S06, we’re likely saying goodbye to the character drama, intrigues and possibly even King’s Landing itself.
The story has conveniently aligned the good guys against common enemies and disposed of most of the complex characters. Moving forward, the Lannisters’ poetic demise is about as much as I expect in terms of genuine drama.
I’m bracing myself for the remaing two seasons to be a dreary, long Battle of the Bastards. Likely your usual series of good-vs-evil-battles fought by Jon the perfect Savior against the WWs – and possibly even Dany.
In 16 hours, GoT is gone until at least April 2017.
Yes, he was reborn during that battle. He choose live and not death when he get from those bodies and Kit talked about it. It’s not like he literally died. Mel is needed and Jon needs all help he can get from anyone. It’s not about which Red Priestess is more important or powerful, he has her. Jon will start to value life more because of his moment from the battle.
I bet it’s Jon. It seems like in promo it’s Littlefinger and Sansa and then someone else and LF. Either way interesting to see where LF will go.
I think and hope that the entire King’s Landing cast is toast except for Cersei. I think Benjen will die as well, and Winter will arrive. Other than that the episode will probably be setup and wrap up with Mel/Littlefinger, Meereen and the Riverlands.
Am hedging my bets here, chilling the bubbly bottles labelled Littlefinger, Walder Frey and Cersei ready for 2am.
HS, Lancel, Loras, Maergery Kevan, Pycell, Tommen. (Burn them all)
All the Fray (I hope so)
Night watch (If the wall break down)
Daario, Theon ( I hope not, but since Yara has met Dany and Tyrion, he has served his purpose as “someone familiar” from iron island plot)
what if…………….euron does miraculously have 1000 ships, and he comes to meet them and all they have to fight them on the sea is yara’s measily little 30 ships or however many it is……and soldiers and horseman on the other ships that have prolly never even been on a boat before. So my prediction is all the dothraki and all the unsullied, yara and theon, and a dragon die. Tyrion and Dany escape on the other 2 dragons and fly off. Would they go back to meereen or would they land somewhere in westeros?…and if so…where?
If Jon Snow does sentence Melisandre to die, I’ll put him in in the Ned, Robb category–characters who chose honor over sense and paid for ultra righteousness– and lose faith in him. Fortunately Jon has always been a practical fella. His actions are logical, based more on his interpretation rather than following rules set by predecessors.
Besides, Jon owes his life to the grace of R’hollor. If he’s to clasp the red burning blade in his hand, I don’t think killing a devoted priestess of the Lord of light is the way to go.
Davos’ attitude towards Melisandre has never made sense to me. From ‘I hate this mother of demon and her dark magic’ to ‘Can you please use your magic to bring back Jon Snow, thanks’ and ‘I know Renly was killed by blood magic, but its all in the past now Lady Brienne’ finally back to ‘TELL HIM WHAT YOU DID you mother of demons!’
What makes it even more ridiculous is Davos owes his life to Melisandre. Stannis had already sentenced him to die for letting Robert’s bastard escape.
I don’t know who’s gonna die. But I’d really like for my girl Arya to off Walder Frey and his sons! A girl has to take sweet revenge. It’s about time.
The difference is that she had not “lost” him yet then. Now he is completely turned against her and under the power of her enemies. She is also much further gone, mentally, after extremely destructive humiliation, so she is going to go farther than she would have then.
She loves her son, yes, on that I agree. But she does not feel he is better off in the hands of her enemies and she now knows she can not get him back.
I think she may try to convince him not to go to her trial because she knows what she plans to do. But he will go anyway. So while she may not happily burn him by any means, he will nevertheless die.
I can see where you’re coming from. Perhaps you’re right but he is her last child so I would be surprised if she did deliberately leave him in harms way. But hey, this is Cersei and it would make for a shock plotline after all 🙂
I think Cersi survives this week. Admittedly that’s mostly because of my wish that the “younger more beautiful queen” that will cast Cersei down according to Maggy the Frog’s prophecy will be Brienne – and she’s not in king’s Landing.
Of course I have no idea of their respective ages, and I don’t know how Brienne would become a queen. But a man can hope, can’t he?
More faith militant than you can ring a bell at.
I’m really hoping that conversation with arya had a point.
Maybe Jon sends her awaywhich results into meeting Arya.Thoug she has no clue who arya was IIRC and last time they met Arya was not impressed,maybe Mel finds her end with the many faced God?
99.99% – Kevan, Pycelle, Septa Unella, Lancel, Maergery/Loras (or both)
90% – High Sparrow. I think his story has reached its end but I could also see the show having him survive into next season.
75% – Tommen. I doubt Cersei would deliberately kill him so if he dies I think it will be accidental, a case of him showing up where she doesn’t expect him to be.
50% – Qyburn
10% – Cersei. If she does what they seem to be leading up to her doing then I think she will have to face Jamie again to have a reckoning for her actions.
5% – Ser Pounce. You had better not go there show runners!
Meereen: No one. I think this episode will just be about Dany finally heading to Westeros and having to decide who to take and leave behind.
The North: No one. I doubt Jon would execute Melisandre. He may banish her from his service though. And I don’t think Davos will kill her either but he may leave if Jon refuses to punish her. And, unfortunately, I see zero chance of Littlefinger being killed by anyone. No, that annoying cockroach is bound to be around right up to the end.
75% – random Frey son
50% – Walder Frey. I’d love it to happen but I don’t think he’s going down just yet.
0% – Jamie
She has already been cast down. There is simply no more casting down left to do.
Marge has been indirectly responsible for everything Cersei has lost. Marge is the YMBQ, and she is because Cersei made it so.
I really doubt he’ll be getting LB this early in the story.
Besides, that theory doesn’t make sense ( IF you take the the story of AA and the prophecy of AAR correct to every word ). (a) Melisandre isn’t Jon’s lover and (b) Punishment isn’t the same as sacrifice
Since there is a death prediction post for unsullied, can us sullied have one, too? Otherwise, a great portion of us have nothing like this to contribute to.
Hope you’re right. As long as he’s around the Stark kids are not safe, IMO. They are in his way.
In my prediction, I gave Mel a 30% chance of dying this episode, ie. not all that high. The debate has then gone on as if I said for sure she would die right away, which I did not.
I profoundly disagree with the notion that Jon would send away Davos and choose Mel over him. That, to me is completely ludicrous. And as we know, Davos is extremely angry at Mel.
So Mel is in some trouble. She has a lot to answer for, and Jon is NOT a fan of killing children, which is what she did. This sets up a very serious situation for Mel which IMO will very likely result in her death EVENTUALLY, but as I said clearly in my predictions, I very much doubt it will be this episode.
Mel and Arya will meet again. This is unlikely to happen in the finale.
Longclaw is not the right sword. The right sword needs to get to the right hands before it can be plunged into the burning heart, etc.
So Mel is in trouble, but I do not think she will die yet, and I profoundly disagree with the notion that Jon would EVER choose her over Davos, knowing what she has done, and how Jon feels about killing children.
You know, here’s the thing. I absolutely get why Ser Davos is righteously angry about Mel killing Shireen. It was a horrible thing to do. But I don’t get why Jon would need to “punish” her. She was with Stannis at the time. He was in charge. Shireen’s death had nothing to do with Jon or the Nights Watch.
I can see Jon being disgusted with religion in general for such atrocities committed in the name of a god, I would understand him finding Melisandre repulsive. But I am also remembering what Ser Davos said to Brienne. She saw the shadow that murdered Renley. But as Davos told Brienne, that was in different circumstances.
Right now they need Mel to keep Jon alive, and they have to focus on what is ahead with the threat of the White Walkers. it seems even Beric Dondarion and Thoros of Myr are heading North, so it’s all hands on deck. Maybe the Red priests have some special role in all that.
I can see Jon distancing himself from Mel, but I don’t think she will be killed or banished.
There has to be sth that scares Danny considering the quote by Tyrion, so I am expecting someone to die there, maybe Yara? Would fit GOT after last week scenes, tbh I thought Tormund was a goner too after those adorable scenes with Brienne!
Though maybe Dany is scared to leave, with her original trusted advisors gone and having to leave some more behind to govern Meereen. Seems rather unlikely with the way they have been portraying her this season,no?
Quite nervous about what’s happening at the Twins.
I find it hard to believe that the Lannisters would wipe out the Freys, mainly because it’d be another name off Arya’s list and she hasn’t got much left to do if she’s not going to cross at least one name off the list.
Walder Frey killing the Lannisters I think has a much higher potential. I can’t help but think of Littlefinger’s “The time has come to join the fray” line earlier in the season. They may have just been teasing us, or they may be hinting that Littlefinger has struck some deal with the Freys.
If Littlefinger defies Cersei in regards to Sansa he might have to come into conflict with the Lannisters regardless. Perhaps he’s decided to let somebody else do the dirty work and weaken the Lannisters from a distance.
Not sure if Walder Frey would wish to spark conflict with the Lannisters, but if they killed Jaime they would seriously weaken the Lannisters’ remaining strength; and if Littlefinger had promised that the Vale would back the Freys, then you never know.
I think what could happen though is that Walder Frey will do something in regard to Edmure, his wife and child which will mean Jaime can’t keep his word. Basically he’ll do something to offend Jaime’s honour which will further cement Jaime’s determination to do the decent thing in future.
Love it! 😀
Didn’t get very far through the replies so am probably repeating what others have already said, but I got impatient and wanted to join in the fun! KL definitely looks like the place to be for serious action. I assume if the sept goes boom (hey poetry) most of those inside will be killed or seriously injured. We know HS is there and presumably Tommen, Loras, Marg, Mace, Lancel Sandwich and Septa Unella. Quick, last chance for Lancel Sandwich to actually happen! There is also someone who could be Kevan Lannister standing next to Marg’n’Mace in the background of picture of the HS you’ve used. It’s probably a fairly long process so presumably people are able to come in and leave at different stages, which would affect their chances of survival. I don’t think Cersei would harm her son intentionally so timing is the key here. Save him but take out as many of the others as possible. Like most things she does this is bound to backfire on her in some way so perhaps Tommen is somehow the only victim? 😉
Elsewhere I dunno (helpful as always, that’s me). Something has to happen at Walder’s party otherwise why bother showing us? Although that doesn’t necessarily mean the death of anyone we know. Isn’t Walder really old? At this rate he’ll be one of very few to die of natural causes. Haven’t seen Dorne for ages, maybe a sand snake will appear out of thin air, kill someone totally unexpected and instantly vanish, like one of those bonus things you get that pop up occasionally in games.
My take on what Tyrion says about the great game being terrifying is that now that it is finally time for her to head to Westeros she suddenly has doubts about it. But, you’re right, self-doubt would seem out of character for her. So possibly it is a reaction to something else like an assassination attempt maybe? But either way I see little chance that Yara or Theon die now. They have to live to confront Euron eventually.
Mel will be banished and meet Arya during her wanderings. Carice Van Houten is pregnant so time off is warranted.
Oz, I saw what you did in so many places. Great post!!
This is a little OT but can someone please confirm the runtime on the show tonight? Is it going to be a two hour episode? I can’t remember if it was posted somewhere.
Now that would break the internet 😀
What is ludicrous is blaming Melisandre for Shireen’s death. She died because of her dear Lord father. So Melisandre put forth the evil idea inside Stannis’ heads, it was still his decision to go ahead with the plan. If Melisandre proposes similar idea to Jon, that he should sacrifice- say Sansa- to achieve some great purpose, do you think Jon agrees? No chance in hell. That is what signifies the difference between Stannis and Jon, what makes Stannis a bad guy and Jon a good guy.
Even if one makes out Melisandre to be the main reason for Shireen dying, that doesn’t make her a horrible character. Not when you consider the Heroine of this story did essentially the same- Knowingly or unknowingly sacrificed her unborn child, her husband and the witch-to bring forth dragons into the World.
Getting back to Shireen’s death, the person responsible has already paid for the crime with his life. That chapter’s closed. Jon Snow has nothing to do with any of that business.
Re Davos being ‘very angry’ with Melisandre, he should honestly go do one. He’s the biggest hypocrite in the story. Who is he to show outrage when he’s got blood on his own hands? Did he not aid Stannis in the battle for KL? When Stannis was broken, did he not help reform Stannis’ army who then slaughtered plenty of Wildlings, possibly hundreds of innocent lives?
I think Melisandre will be executed. And she will accept it.
Remember when Stannis was strangling her and she simply accepted it, in the belief that the Lord of Light’s will would be expressed through Stannis.
She could use the opportunity to show others that Jon Snow is the chosen one through some magic spectacle upon her death.
I’m not sure what else they can do. Is Jon Snow really going to let a child murderer live? And what would that do for Davos’s story? Is he just going to say ‘okay, cool, see ya later’ and finally head back to the Stormlands.
The decision over whether or not to allow Mel to get away with murdering a child will offer an indication whether or not Jon is going to be corrupted by Melisandre the way Stannis was. They may use this opportunity to draw an obvious distinction between the two men. The actions of a real king and an honourable saviour, versus those of a false one.
You seem to have forgotten that Mel talked Stannis into it.
Mel is responsible, and not only that, she KNOWS she is. Which is why she is so ashamed and walks away whenever Davos asks what happened to Shireen.
By that Logic, Cercei isn’t responsible for all those children’s and dwarves’ deaths, Theon in not responsible for the two farm boys’ deaths?
I’ve said this elsewhere but I’ll say it here… I don’t see Cersei directly killing her son. If he dies, it will be despite all she did to keep him alive… because all her plans eventually blow up in her face.
And I could have believed the whole “she will accidentally kill Tommen when she sets off wildfire” but it actually seems unlikely now that she had that conversation with Qyburn. They have a plan. It is not a spur of the moment thing.
An attempt at assassination would fit with the info we have at the moment, the guy/girl would need to come really close preferably just at the point in the story where we feel safe as Oz has mentioned. Would prefer that over A death.
A girl can hope!
It’s a 7 hour episode that cost $12 billion to make. Please spread that on the Internet.
We have an awful lot of named characters left, don’t we? My best guess on the settings we’ll get (100%s are in the preview):
King’s Landing: 100%
North of the Wall: 100%
The Twins: 100%
Elsewhere in Riverlands: 40%
Castle Black: 10%
Given these, characters we know we’ll see along with death probability. First, the certain survivors:
Jon, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Daenerys: 0%. The Big Five. All are in the middle of important developments and aren’t going anywhere.
Sansa, Davos, Cersei, Jaime, Missandei, Grey Worm, Sam, Gilly: 5%. Next tier of near untouchables. Too much remaining story for all of them. Most of these people are in fairly safe situations, with Cersei and Jaime being the obvious outliers, but they have to meet again before they die, so that’s more plot convenience than what I would guess if this was the real world.
Meera, Edd: 10%. Both kind of in a lot of danger, but I don’t see Bran losing his forever protector and last original traveling companion, even with Benjen around now. Edd is this low not because I think he’s safe, but I just don’t think they’ll even show him again until next season. Not enough time to cover everyone.
The near certain deaths:
High Sparrow, Septa Unella: 95%. Arbitrary 5% roundings, obviously. I won’t go to 100 for anyone, but these two are toast. We know Cersei is planning something, the director said to expect lots of death, and they’re her top two targets.
Lancel, Kevan, Pycelle: 90%. The other named Sparrow and her two nemeses on the Small Council.
Tommen: 85%. I don’t see him specifically as a target. It’s just hard to imagine how he gets out of this carnage alive.
Remaining characters we know we’ll see:
Walder, Black Walder, Lothar Frey: 70%. The Lannister/Frey party just looks too suspicious, but honestly, part of this is hope. All of the scenarios in which they die seem unlikely to actually happen, but these guys can’t seriously persist into the endgame, right? Like the Blackfish and Ramsay, they’re the last vestiges of the old war that doesn’t matter any more, and the show pounded us over the head with how much the gods hate it when you break guest right. They have to be getting their comeuppance somehow.
Loras: 60%. Seems very likely to be collateral damage just because he’s there at the Sept.
Margaery: 50%. Possible collateral damage as well, but she’s a more important character and this would be an extremely disappointing end when it seems like she has something up her sleeve.
Benjen: 50%. Continuing this frustrating habit of bringing back old characters just to kill them off. This isn’t really a logical pick, as this guy knows a lot and it seems important that he survive long enough to convey that information about Bran’s true purpose and powers. This is more of a “feel” pick, as it seems like we’re culling people to some extent just to cut down the cast, and surely Joseph Mawle has better things to do than show up once every six years for this.
Littlefinger: 40%. There’s the worried look from the trailer. Is it Jon threatening him? His first encounter with Ghost? It seems obvious he’s going to ask Sansa to marry him, and I don’t see her doing that, and his position is tenuous since his power relies upon Robin Arryn and the other Lords/Knights of the Vale not knowing he’s responsible for the deaths of Jon and Lysa Arryn, which Sansa can reveal. Sansa promised him something, though, and the Starks do owe him now, and it seems fated that he and Varys will get one final showdown.
Qyburn, Ser Gregor: 30%. I just get the feeling Cersei’s posse makes it out alive with her. She kind of needs them for one, and two it’ll be basically the most evil Small Council ever for Daenerys to come destroy.
Bronn, Daario: 20%. Slim chance for everyone’s favorite sidekick. The show likes to do a few crowd pleasers here and there, and Bronn deserves his castle and his lady. For whatever reason, suspicions of Daario won’t die, even as he has pretty much been Daenerys’ biggest supporter for over three seasons and has had numerous opportunities to kill her if that’s really what he wanted to do.
Theon, Yara: 15%. Okay, we don’t “know” we’ll see them, but they’re in Meereen, so it’d be weird not to. Small chance of a surprise for either. Their showdowns with Euron probably wait for next season.
Characters we may or may not see again:
Olenna, Varys, Ellaria: 5%. Mostly, I think they wait for next season to reveal what these three are up to.
Euron: 5%. We’re more likely to see him, but as a very quick teaser to set him up for what comes next.
Brienne, Sandor Clegane: 10%. Putting them a small tick up the probability scale just because these jackass writers like to hurt us, but I doubt we see them for more than a minute or two to check up and see where they’re headed.
Thoros, Beric: 15%. If we see Sandor, we see them, but they’re more likely to die than he is.
Podrick: 20%. Same logic. If we see Brienne, we see Pod, but he’s the less capable fighter and has less unfinished plot business.
Edmure: 50%. I have no idea if he’s even at the Twins or if Jaime had him sent directly to Casterly Rock, but if he’s there and something goes down, he seems the most likely of the friendly characters to meet his end. House Tully would be the next great house to completely bite the dust.
So, interesting that list formatting shows up in a preview, but not when you actually post. Do you guys need some help with your front-end code?
I can’t believe after tonight GoT is gone until next year. I’m sick over this.
Their plan IS the wildfire. The “rumor” they discussed was the existence of caches of it under the city, particularly the Sept of Baelor.
Cersei will try to keep her son out of harm, sure. But he no longer listens to her and will not this time of either
Oh no please! If one of the roses is to stay, ley it be Marge who is a more interesting character! For broken men we already have Theon…
I seldom speculate or have a go at predicting what may happen… More so in a season finale. Just look what happened at the end of S5? How many of us on WotW could have predicated that outcome and Jon being assassinated by his own brothers in the NW! Certainly amongst the ‘Unsullied’ of which I am one 😉
I’ll just sit up most of the night (2am in the UK) and enjoy (or rant off !) at whatever the outcome is. I’ll then put in my ‘pennies worth’ afterwards!
Probably there will be a few deaths in Kings Landing (the HS, Lancel and maybe some others), but reckon Cersei will survive. As will Jamie, Bronn, Brienne and Pod up in Riverrun. Will be interesting to see if The Hound and the BwoB see some action?
I reckon those over in Essos will survive the finale, but if Euron arrives at Meereen that could have dire consequences!
Bottom line being …. I’m just as in the dark as the rest of you. We’ll just have to suck it and see 🙂
My cable listing is showing 75 minutes which includes previouslies and opening & closing credits. Actual episode runtime is supposed to be 68 minutes.
Great post as always, Oz!
So intrigued by the scene at The Twins! I’ve waited so many years for Red Wedding payback. I hope it begins tonight.
Cannot wait to see the ToJ! Again, waited many years for confirmation of the theory, but I wouldn’t mind if the theory is blow to smithereens. I just want to know!
Mel is safe unless Arya arrives in Winterfell tonight, which is highly unlikely.
Excited to see Sam one last time before The Long Night of off season (at least I hope) and the Dornish (if just to make sense of their weird storyline).
So sad it is ending again! See you all on the other side of ep. 10! Enjoy!
Yeah a little over an hour (68 minutes). Outlander is getting a 90 minute finale, not sure why GoT doesn’t do this.
I actually hope Euron doesn’t interfere with Dany leaving. Hopefully we just get a big spectacle in the final scene with her leaving and then next season, Euron intercepts them on the way to Westeros. Dany needs to leave Essos tonight. Anything less will be a massive disappointment.
I have no idea about who, exactly, will die this episode. But, there are several important things to remember:
1). The bulk of the Tyrell army is in KL. What happens to the Reach if they perish in a city wide inferno?
2). ALL of the major armies in Westeros are in the field now. Exceptions being Tyrells, as stated above, and Dorne as theyare in the middle of a coup de tat. Theses armies will be torn between going to the Wall or defending the impending invasion of Dany’s army/air force.
3). What is the status of Dragonstone since Stannis and his army are no more? Gonna need that Dragon glass soon.
4). Jamie and Bronn, are now, arguably, the best field commanders left, with possible exception of Lord Royce of the Vale. Jon’s experience is as a Small Unit commander. He seems out of his league with a full army. Gonna need the best available commaders to go up against the Night King.
5). How do Jon & Company convince everybody of the existence of the Night King?
6) I kind of think that the end of this season will be summed up by Bronn as he says, “We’re all fooked now!”
Reiterating this. This is not a post for the Sullied.
I have question to you posters?
What does people think Aeron Damphairs role is in the show?
-Yara specifically asked Dany for help murdering not only one, but TWO uncles, which makes me think he will not just be forgotten about once the story moves away from the isles.
– His fate could be similar to Areo Hotahs in the Dorne storyline. Someone who’s there to flesh out that region but gets killed quickly because their role doesn’t reach further than that. If this is true, I think one of two scenarios is possible. Either he is killed early in s7 when Yara and Dany attack Euron, or he is killed by Euron himself because of Aerons disapproving of Eurons illusions of grandeur and blasphemy, calling himself The Drowned God.
– Personally I think he’ll stay a little longer, since he is probably there for Euron to have someone to interact with. I Euron becomes a new substantial character, he will have to talk to someone. That could be Aeron going forward. Maybe I’m just hoping this, because I have enjoyed Michael Feasts performance so far and how his character represents the Iron Born religion. Especially his looks and costume is incredible, with the long white hair and the primitive priest robes.
– What do you guys think?
Fantastic! I need more beer then. 😀 I vote that you’re in charge of deciding how long episodes are from now on. I’ll phone D&D right now to make it so.
I know if KL BBQ goes on as many here predict there is a high probability that the HS dies. However, thinking of who would be the most interesting character to face Daeny, it is him, considering he proclaims himself as the leader of the poor. If anybody is breaking the wheel, he is, with his “you’re the few, we are the many”. That would be an interesting dilemma for her… Mhysa crushing the poor. Just a thought…
Lord of Coffee,
Thanks!! I like Geek’s answer better though. 🙁
I was thinking the same thing about Jaime being married off to a Fray girl. Edmure and whoever his wife is would be at Riverrun, right? Ha,ha… maybe Bron will end up with the Dreadfort!
Where did this Bronn being some kind of great battlefield commander come from all of a sudden? Bronn is a sellsword who has been shown to be a good fighter but never as a tactical genius. And he is not at all loyal to any particular side, just whoever best serves his own interests as shown when he accepted Cersei’s offer to not fight for Tyrion.
When Jamie told him that he was better than the rest of the Lannister army commanders I initially thought he was just playing to Bronn’s big ego but, no, Jamie actually put him in charge of the siege. What an insult to the loyal Lannister army commanders who had been out in the field for years while Jamie was in the Kings Guard.
Jon is in a position of power – both Mel and Davos have chosen him as their commander and thus given him the power to punish them for transgressions. I assume you could be right and Jon will think that it is not his place to punish Mel for past transgressions, but he might also think that if there is no-one else to do it, it falls to him to do something about her crime.
In any case, I think he will have a hard time having her around from then on. I think he would not want to be dependent on a woman who committed such atrocities and smiled while doing it. Being the honorable guy he is he will likely either banish her from his sight or banish her from his camp. I can not imagine him continuing as they were.
Lord of Coffee,
I didn’t say he was “great” just “best” available. So, your point on that is well taken and I rescind that particular word.
BUT, the major point is that good Field General level commanders are going to be needed up north. as soon as possible.
If LF WINS Sansa back I will flip shit!
3) was Stannis his fate specifically discussed in kings landing this season?Cant recall so maybe news hasnt reached them, LF knows I assume but doubt he shared it?Did Stannis leave someone behind.? Again can’t remember this being mentioned…
4) Dont forget about Sams dad, Lord Tarly. Not sure he will help unless commanded to do so
You’re absolutely right about Tarly. Forgot about him. His sword might make it up to the Wall, though.
I was expecting to see “High Sparrow: 99%” but I guess Lancel’s 95 kinda covers that haha. I would be somewhat shocked if the old barefoot cobbler makes it out of this episode alive.
Sorry, didn’t mean my comment as a criticism of what you said. Meant it more as a criticism of the show for having Jamie seemingly out of nowhere claim that Bronn is a great battlefield commander. Hey, maybe Jamie & Bronn sat around the fire discussing battle tactics on their journey to Dorne last season so that’s how Jamie knows – lol!
But I completely agree with your main point that all the fighting men (and women) need to put aside their squabbles (as Davos might say) and get north ASAP.
I don’t remember Stannis’ defeat being discussed in Kings Landing but Varys knew (he mentioned it to Kinvara) so if he heard it in Meereen then it must be known in the capital of Westeros.
Don’t really know why my earlier post was erased, my “odds of death” was based strictly on what we’ve seen in the show. Given that, I expect that Cersei’s enemies are going to bite the dust, and that would include the High Sparrow, Pycelle and Kevan. Loras and Margaery are likely to be collateral damage (although not so much to Cersei, who clearly had been depicted in the show as adversarial to the Tyrells even as Tywin while alive was making deals with them). Lancel will likely die, as is anyone who may be remotely close to the Sept of Baelor during the episode. Walder’s “The Freys and Lannisters send their regards” is a clear callback to the Red Wedding, that’s possibly a signal that the three “main Freys” in the show, Lord Walder, Black Walder and Lothar are not long for this world…I don’t really expect Jaime to die but merely his proximity to the Freys in this episode ups his percentage quotient of possibility of death. As for Daario, Theon and Yara, clearly something happens in Meereen that triggers Tyrion’s “are you afraid?” speech to Danny, so I feel at least one of them is endangered…Ever since the show depicted the prophecy that Cersei received in her childhood, it’s clear that her children would die before her; thus I would think that Tommen would have a high likelihood of becoming collateral damage in this episode…it would also conveniently clear a path for Danny. I would think that Mel is in danger given Davos’ “murder face” at the end of the last episode except for the show establishing the premise before that Mel and Arya will meet again. As for Littlefinger; I’m unclear as to what’s happening in the Godswood; Sansa will either kill him or consent to get married to him…
Lord of Coffee,
No worries. Thanks for the discussion!
Okay my opinion
Definitely going to die:
Lots of Faith Militant (also wondering if Lancel will escape)
Marge and/or Loras (potential Loras survives is low-but he could since his trial seems to be first and I’d bet Marge was working on his escape plan)
Tommen-I don’t think Cersei will do it-even though she’s distanced herself from him this season. I think it will happen because of her.
Frey Family–not sure how many, but I hope a lot. I could think of several people who deserve the Twins more. 🙂
Probably will die:
Daario-Agree with you and I’ve mentioned my feelings about him several times. We’re going to find out he’s more than just a cute behind-and he probably won’t make it to Westeros.
Could die and I would either be shocked or really sad:
Bronn (just no)
LF (I want it but I would be a little surprised since they still don’t know what he did to Ned and well everyone)
Mel (doubt it-unless she’s so depressed she asks for it-or gets exiled and runs into Arya)
Theon or Yara
Sand snakes (sadly, I doubt I’ll get that lucky)
Jon Snow isn’t Ned Stark, to let honor cloud his judgement. If he was, Tormund Giantsbane and the rest of the Wildlings would be part of the Night’s King army.
Jon isn’t Robert Baratheon, to let love/vengeance drive him. If he was, he’d have betrayed the Night’s Watch/cut Olly for killing Ygritte.
Jon isn’t Robb Stark/ Deanerys, to kill those who have helped him because justice compels him to do so. If he was, he wouldn’t have made a case for Mance Rayder.
Jon isn’t King Tommen, to base his actions to please someone. If he was, he’d never go against the wishes of many of his brothers of the Nights watch and pact with the Wildlings.
Jon’s story has been about making people see past their quarrels, hatred for one other, crimes they’ve committed against the other and uniting them.
I could see Margery because I don’t see where her story line would add anything significant. The rest – Mace, Loras, Lancel, Pycelle, Keven, Freys, Septa Unella, High Sparrow, Tommen. Possible deaths would be Podrick, Beric, Bron, Daario, Mel.
On a side note speculation, I could see Jamie running into Arya at the Twins which would give his character a way to fulfill his oath to Cat and perhaps, get Arya to WF. Change his whole trajectory if he finds out about Lancel and sides with Starks. If the Maggie the Frog prophecy (from the books) comes about where everything Cersei holds dear taken from her, Jamie is one of the “things” she holds dear.
This is my first time on this blog, so I hope I did this correctly and within guidelines.
Although I’m sorry to say it I don’t think things look too good for Tommen. Okay so he’s not the best king but he’s only a kid and he doesn’t do unkind things like Joffrey – but seeing that his brother and sister have gone to the Night Lands I have a bad feeling for him. I think some of the Sparrows will go too but I don’t know which ones.
BTW Flicks and the City has a couple of (newish) youtube videos up interviewing the Septa Unella actress (quite an attractive lady in real life) and the Mace Tyrell actor.
Littlefinger is a guest at Winterfell, so I would say he is safe.
Surprised we’re not getting open chat earlier considering this is the last one.
Eddie Eyre with the ToJ HYPE
It would be lucky for most of us to see the sand snakes get offed. It would be so satisfying to see them go. Pointless story line actually having a point.
In other words, he has no personality whatsoever lol
It’s not pointless. Varys is going there to form an alliance for Dany. Doran was a weak little man and wouldn’t have supported this. Ellaria will. Dorne makes perfect sense now. People just didn’t want to wait until the endgame to see it.
Unfortunately I agree with the Cockroachfinger theory. But I could totally see Sansa marrying him, IF she had a huge ulterior motive – and a plan that did not bode well for him. Of course that would make her that much more vulnerable and I’d have to bite my fingernails off.
I think Tommen (lol spellchecker keeps making him into Romney) is gone, albeit unintentionally, and Cersei goes the rest of the way over the edge.
I would love to see Arya and Sandor march right into the Twins and decimate them a la BWoB.
That Godswood scene with LF is interesting. He doesn’t look comfortable. My thought is what if LF tries to coerce/threaten Sansa into marrying him or if Jon is pronounced KitN to go against him. Hence, Sansa tells Jon and it is Jon who confronts him in the Godswood to protect Sansa from LF’s manipulation. It wouldn’t be something LF would see coming.
Jack Bauer 24,
Oh, I’m cool with Ellaria and Varys making an alliance with Dorne and that story line. It is the sand snakes that are a bit cringe worthy to watch and Ellaria isn’t a sand snake. I actually like her character. It was rumored that the Queen of Thrones might make an appearance as well to make a pact. I’m down for that.
Jon is just like Ned. Remember Jon and Maester Aemon’s conversation?
Maester Aemon: “If the day should ever come when your Lord father was forced to choose between honour on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?”
Jon Snow: “He would do whatever was right. No matter what.”
That’s the way Jon has lived his life. Trying to do what was right, no matter what, even if it means trading love (Ygritte) or honour (the Wildlings).
Ned Stark also tried to do what was right, even if it was to the detriment of those he loved or to his honour. His final act was to trade his honour for his love for his daughter.
What justification could Jon offer for not doing what’s right and applying justice to Melisandre?
Dame of Mercia,
Thanks, Dame of Mercia. Flicks and the City have good interviews.
To murder, perhaps, but not to justice. Sansa could have him arrested for the murder of Lysa Arryn. Or for his role in Joffrey’s murder.
In the scene with LF and sweet Robin, Lord Royce was given the task to command the Vale forces. LF is no military tactician. Shouldn’t he have been at LF and Sansa’s side in BoB or did I miss something?
Merreen: Daario tries to kill Dany. Greyworm kills Daario. I can’t see Euron arriving so soon. I think he comes into play next season as a new villian raiding western and southern shores and coming up against Dany, Yara, and Theon.
The North: I think Mel’s story line is at an end. I don’t think Jon will kill her but will banish her or she takes her own life. Davos isn’t the type to murder her. Everyone else is safe in the North for the time being. LF has the largest army in the North right now and will insinuate himself into Sansa’s life. She may very well marry him but I hope not. Robyn of the Vale and Royce may be in some danger from LF. Or less likely, Sansa marries Robyn and LF takes out Royce.
King’s Landing: Tommen 95%, High Sparrow 100%, Loras 95%, Margary 30%, Olenna 60%, The Mountain 50%, Lancel 100%, Kevan Lannister 90%, Pycelle 90%. Cersei and Qyburn survive. Either Margary or Lady Olenna dies but one of them has to survive to come back next season to seek revenge on Cersei.
Riverlands: Walder Frey and his two oldest sons (I forget their names) 95%. I’m hoping it’s Arya that takes them out. Although this may not happen until next season. Who gets the Twins and Riverrun after this? No Idea. Maybe Jaime claims them for the Lannisters. Maybe the BwB, Sandor, Brienne and Podrick will play a part in the Riverlands?
heh, that is almost certainly true: even if Baelish has heard these stories, then he no doubt is dismissing them as propaganda or a Grimmsian side-effect of the battles north of the Wall!
And I completely agree: the show has set up too much about Baelish’s ultimate motives. There should be some big payoff there. My bet is that one of the WTF moments that the showrunners got from GRRM is going to involve Baelish.
And given what we’ve seen on the show, we have to expect Mel to hang around. We’ve seen that Red Priestesses are getting behind Daeny. Given how heavily Jon and Daeny parallel each other on the show, we should expect some gelling of Red Clerics behind Jon, too. However, that does not mean that there will not be some consequences: but, still, I’m betting that R’hllor (who does seem to be the only god that anybody really has on the show: well, the only one that’s not a tree or a White Walker, anyway) might provide her with the power to survive.
Daario trying to kill Dany? Why?
Character development? Character complexity?
Or are people still not over their 3rd grade fairy tale tropes? God, this whole story seems to be veering back to the fantasy cliche it started out as.
I like the idea of Jamie maybe running into Arya in the riverlands. It seems like they are setting it up for her to eventually (probably not until next season) encounter Brienne or the Hound, but meeting Jamie would be quite an interesting curveball.
My feeling is that the Big Three are safe, as are the remaining Stark siblings.
Riverlands: Freys won’t survive that feast.
Essos: They can’t have too much death here as this story is done. Dany wraps up Slaver’s Bay, gets the Dothraki on the ships, leaves for Westeros.
North: All but Littlefinger are safe as houses, except for the Watch. If the Walkers break through, Watch members will be the first to suffer. I don’t want Littlefinger to perish as he’s such a good villain, but the show is entering endgame and will need to wrap up its “gaming” bits. Littlefinger is the gamer extraordinaire, which means he’s no longer necessary.
King’s Landing: As we enter endgame, this city and its plotting will be extraneous. Cersei will eventually burn it down, but before that, I predict the deaths of Tommen, Loras, High Sparrow, Mace, Kevan, Pycelle. Cersei could survive, as the show won’t kill her off without a final meeting with Jaime.
Marg might live as well. The show started off with the civil war known as “war of the five kings.” It could end with an alliance between five women: Dany, Arianne, Marg, Sansa, Yara.
Jack Bauer 24,
Could be Daario is being paid by the what is left of the slave masters to kill Dany as a last ditch effort?
Likely death: Nadia
Cause of death: Waiting till 2017 for more Game of Thrones
🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
Littlefinger said he, not Royce, would take the Knights of the Vale north to help Sansa.
So, no actual reason then?
Just a vague notion of “character complexity” totally unsubstantiated by the material or rationality?
Who’s thinking at a 3rd grade level again?
How will Ellaria SAND will support Dany now? She’s a Bastard, they all Bastards and I don’t know how will they rule Dorn and how will the Dornishlords will take that.
Unless Ellaria is faking some paper that prince Doran gave her daughter a name and blah blah blah , it would be lame way to cover the mistakes the showrunners did to thier storyline.
I don’t think any of Mereen team is in danger for now.
I wish Marg and Loras just go home safely.
I think Cersei will kill Tommen in purpose! , he’ll die anyway and I don’t think she’ll wait to see that happen.
And the Sparrows 100% will die.
LF won’t die, I think Sansa will leave him because she’s her mother’s daughter. And please stop saying that Sansa will marry him, she’s done being anyone’s toy.
I think the reason why Sandor is bake is because he’ll meet Arya again and they will take her North.
That’s not true: but there certainly are viewers (and readers) assuming that M,B&W will start invoking fantasy tropes. But as we’ve seen again and again, they do not: we never get Deus ex Machina plotting (which abounds in fantasy) or unfired Chekhovian guns (which also abound in Fantasy) or major effects on the story by non-protagonists (which also abound in fantasy).
All of that stated: one could see Jon and/or Sansa being split on this. And the story is about the costs of alliances: and keeping together an alliance when some of your allies want other allies dead! And disagreements between protagonists (such as we’ve seen to some degree with Daeny & Tyrion) could fuel the story, too. We could be getting that here.
Lord of Coffee,
Thanks, Lord. I missed that informational tidbit.
Both books and episodes emphasize that the Dornish do not care as much about women or bastards as do other Westerosi. Clearly Oberyn is much more popular with the Dornish than Doran was: and given that they do not care as much about bastardy than others do, one of Oberyn’s acknowledged daughters might well be more popular than other choices.
That written, I doubt that this will be much of an issue in the show. Dorne itself is just a backdrop: and it is important only if one of the main characters is dealing with it.
AND the remaining Lannister siblings. ALL the Lannisters are as safe as the Starks till the endgame.
Um, no. Again, in a typical fantasy story, yes. But this one avoids arbitrary plotting and Deus ex Machina plotting like the plagues that they are. No possible “Daario still is working for the Masters” guns have been hung: and therefore, it will not be fired.
How about, ”Davos mate, if it weren’t for her and her God I wouldn’t be here for you to seek justice out of” ?
Seriously though, What justification did Jon offer to Olly & those brothers of the Night’s Watch who were against Jon’s Hardhome trip? Their shouts/complains were very similar to Davos’, as far as promo for this episode showed.
They were more in number and their complaints carried more weight as the Wildlings had taken plenty of innocent lives along with some of Jon’s close friends like Pyp. The guy looked past this but you think he’ll execute someone whose greatest crime was suggesting the idea of killing Shireen?
Well, I think D&D won’t go into the deep end with this. Davos the hypocrite will bay for blood, Jon will try to reason with him but Melisandre interrupts and says she’ll leave Winterfell for Volantis or something.
Only Tyrion falls into that category: he is one of the primary protagonists. Jaime and Cersei are minor protagonists, and their storylines probably will culminate prior to Ragnarok.
However, WOTW probably come perform a Mel style resurrection with all the spoilers, rumors, etc. leading up to season 8 and Nadia slowly but surely comes back to the living. Prepare for a long reboot.
I could see that. However, I also could have seen Jon sparing the Nationalists on the grounds that they needed every man at the Wall to defend against the Walkers. After all, he was willing to save the Wildlings to do this.
Like that, this is one of those “I can see it going either way” scenarios. Sansa’s voice might be important here: she might be the defacto Lady of Winterfell, after all: Jon’s just a Night Watch deserter, after all.
Daario just helped take out the Dothraki, knows she has 3 grown dragons, and is sleeping with her. He’d be crazy to side with the Masters.
That I could never see. However, I could see Cersei killing him by accident: her schemes do tend to blow up in her face, after all.
heh, the “sleeping with her” part actually is not very relevant! However, he does seem to be genuinely in love with her: and that is relevant.
Seriously? She’s spent all her life searching for AAR and see him lead the War against the Others. The show might be forced to take her out because of the actress’ pregnancy. I’ll be really surprised if the same happened in the books though.
“Everything BACKFIRES on Cersei…”
Love what you did there, lol…
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Because that’s the whole point of Jon’s growth and character arc.
Kill the boy and let the man be reborn. The boy Jon had a naive sense of justice and what’s “right.” It got him killed. He faced a sadistic monster and his loyalty and goodness almost got himself killed again. I don’t think Jon will fundamentally change, but he will be a little more practical.
Davos KNEW that Stannis was a fanatic and Davos loved and served him anyway. Stannis gave the order – Mel could NEVER have done any of what she did without Stannis’ consent.
Would Jon, at this state, after so much death and destruction, the weariness of war and the knowledge of what’s to come, execute Mel because Davos is mad that the king HE FOLLOWED let her do something horrible? I say not a chance. What would be the point of ANYTHING in Jon’s arc if he did something as stupidly short-sighted as that?
You mean Alliser and gang? But they clearly showed they were unwilling to partake in such a system. None of them expressed regret, indeed Alliser went as far as saying “If I had to do it all over, knowing where I’d end up, I pray I’d make the right choice again”. Jon was left with no option.
Melisandre, by comparison, is not the same person she was before.
As far as I remember, Jon offered quite a decent justification to the Night’s Watch.
1. The Wildlings are human beings, and many of them are women, children and others who had nothing to do with killing members of the Night’s Watch or villagers;
2. If they don’t rescue the Wildlings then they’ll just end up part of the army of the dead, which wouldn’t be in the best interests of the Night’s Watch or the Seven Kingdoms. Better to have them fighting alongside mankind than fighting for the White Walkers.
Melisandre didn’t just suggest murdering Shireen. She did murder Shireen. She lit the pyre herself.
I don’t think there’s any valid reason to justify him overlooking her crime, unless perhaps if she blames Stannis entirely and denies all knowledge. In which case there’s not much Jon could do, but he would risk Davos seeking justice himself.
Even though she saved Jon’s life, he also stated in an earlier episode that he owes his life to Ser Davos.
As Wimsey points out, the drama is in the dilemmas of in-fighting, alliances and torn loyalties, in the face of a far greater threat to them all.
But if she admits her crime I could see him resisting the urge to compromise his principles and executing her, and her accepting it as the will of her god acting through Jon Snow.
Yeah, Jaime and Cersei are as “minor” as Arya, Sansa and Bran as protagonists. In MY opinion. 🙂
Right: but we did not know that until they were on the gallows. Jon showing them mercy might have bent them, or they might have bent in response to his return. We were not going to know until we saw: and that is why I could have seen it going either way.
That is true: but Jon did not know Mel before. Again, this could go either way, but I lean towards Mel being spared for one of a few reasons. One of those could be genuine contrition on her part in keeping with what we already have seen. That is what really separates it from the Nationalists: we did not know how they would react to Jon’s return until they had nooses around their necks.
Moreover, the Sansa/Jon dynamic could be important here. But this is only a possibility: Sansa also has zero horses in this race up to this point.
A good thing IMHO? These ‘Open Chats’ start far too early on Sundays with hundreds of comments before the episode airs and far too many to read. A couple of hours before the episode is shown is more than adequate to put in one’s thoughts.
Another thing (which I find almost unbelievable) is some will post to this website DURING the show being aired!! For fucks sake… Watch the show first and then post your views!
Then I would say that your opinion is based on unusual criteria! Given the normal criteria for weighing the importance of protagonists (and in particular when they started to actively create story), Bran and Arya certainly trump Jaime and (particularly) Cersei. The evolution of Bran & Arya has been central to the individual stories since Series 1: for Jaime, it has been only since Series 3, and for Cersei, really only since Series 4. Moreover, in Cersei’s case, it has been the inability to evolve rather than how she has evolved that has fed the story.
Strictly speaking, Stannis was a moral absolutist, not a fanatic. Yes, all fanatics are moral absolutists: but not all moral absolutists are fanatics. However, because we usually see moral absolutism only in religious fanatics, it is easy to confuse them.
Tommen dying doens’t make any sense. Danny needs a opponent.
I’m sure some will have their complaints written ahead of time and just tweak things throughout the show so they can post their whining as soon as possible. As Oz of Thrones tweeted a few days ago, too many fans have become just spoiled rotten by the overall quality of the show and now nitpick it to death.
Yes, that was my point. When he first put his plan before his brothers, nearly everyone were against it. They were shouting pretty much the same questions of treachery, justice for murder of innocent blood etc. But Jon managed to bring most of them to his line of thinking by pointing it was in the past and they had to be on the united front to face the Others.
The Wildlings were against his plans as well. He convinced them too.
Is it so hard to imagine Jon doing the same with Davos, a man who himself talked about the wrongs being “in the past” with Brienne?
You can’t be serious. So you think Stannis was a victim in this ?
The old “my King ordered me to do it” excuse doesn’t fly. Otherwise the character development of the likes of Jaime and the Hound counts for nothing. And Meryn Trant shouldn’t have faced justice for killing Syrio and beating up Sansa.
I guess I could accept, however, Jon doing the “smart” thing and postponing Melisandre’s punishment until after the war is over, showing that he’s more pragmatic than Robb was when he executed Lord Karstark, for example. But I don’t know how that’d go down with Ser Davos, whose support and loyalty we know Jon values.
I can’t see Jon letting her crime slide though, especially if it risks alienating those that are looking to him for leadership.
You really do insist on being contrarian on just about anything, regardless of right or wrong
It should not be! On the other hand, it should not be difficult to envision Jon being repulsed by sacrificing a child to a god that he already seems to dislike. However, isn’t this the heart of the story: putting the main characters in situations where all the choices seem wrong in some way? That is why I can see this going either way.
Heh, I am hoping that we see Melisandre interact with Littlefinger. That would have the potential to be… interesting….
Lord of Coffee,
Thank you! I missed this post initially.
Curveball of Jamie being team Arya would be a lot of fun, I think. Plus, the way they show of Jamie in the trailer when Walder says,” the Freys and Lannisters send their regards”, that face doesn’t exactly look like he is in agreement. Almost a smirk of “I know something you don’t know” and what made me think Jamie is definitely not going to be offed yet. Probably way off mark, but it would be cool.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
Remind me how it doesn’t fly? Davos was there when the weird shadow baby was born. He knows Stannis and Mel used blood magic to sacrifice other kings.
For Davos to demand some moral justice now, after all he’s seen and in some ways chosen to rationalize, would be hypocritical but still acceptable for his character. For Jon to concede and do what he wants is truly beyond stupid for the character and basically undermine any development he’s had over his arc.
I think that the majority of the episode will just be a big teaser for next season. That would leave us with only one really substantial episde this season.
You’re making too big a deal about this. Why is Shireen’s death so much more important than anyone else?
Davos is reacting emotionally because he loved Shireen, maybe when he’ll calm down he realizes what a hypocrite he’s being. What about the deaths of those Wildlings that he and Stannis were responsible for?
If Tormund starts shouting he wants justice for those Wildlings, would you want Jon to execute Davos as well? Because Jon can’t afford losing Tormund more so than losing Davos.
lol, at the risk of seeming contrarian…. no, that is not the case.
However, there are people who have complained that Stannis has been portrayed as a fanatic when they do not think that he is. Understanding that Stannis was not a fanatic but a moral absolutist is a subtle but important distinction regarding how someone like Davos would deal with him. Stannis was the type of absolutist who believes that the world is a certain way: and Davos had to move the world in front of Stannis so that Stannis could always charge straight ahead. This stands in contrast to, say, the High Sparrow, who believes that the world should be a certain way: and the HS will cause any damage necessary to try to correct the world.
So, what killed Stannis was his inflexibility: in his mind, everyone is a pawn in the war that has to be used to the best advantage. Whether that makes him a victim depends on the extent to which one thinks that Stannis chose to be like that, and the extent to which one thinks that he was made that way by his past.
The question here is: how will Jon (and perhaps Sansa) view Melisandre in light of this? They are not moral absolutists of any sort: and that means that they are much less predictable.
I think that this might create the heart of the issue: when is the life of one girl more important than the well-being of a whole army? This is a tricky issue: the Zeroeth Law says that you go with the well-being of the many over that of the few, but death ceases to be so abstract when you can put a name and face on it.
Personally, I lean with you in terms of how I think that it will go: but this is a case where I am genuinely curious to see what the outcome will be.
No, it wouldn’t be hypocritical, he could have certain lines even a power-hungry king shouldn’t cross, and it’s not a matter of post-rationalization of what would be “hypocritical” or rationalized in their orignal sense for the character himself. They are just different personal reactions and feelings, to arguably different qualities of actions. (Audience agrees.)
Exactly. But the bottom line is, the whole point of Jon’s arc will be for nothing if he hasn’t learned this.
Understandably for him, Rickon’s life was more important than everything else in that moment. He wouldn’t be Jon if he didn’t feel that, but Rickon died, and then so did a lot of other people, good people who followed him.
Kill the boy, let the man be born. All of that means nothing if he keeps making the same choices over and over. He may disappoint Davos, but I would deeply disappointed in Jon and the writers if they had him cave to this moral outrage.
Agreed, that Jon owes his life to R’hollor but struggles to accept him as God makes me curious to see how that works. Beric Dondarrion had become a devout follower.
Me too. I mean, if Melisandre had gone behind Stannis’ back and sacrificed his daughter to the flames, then yeah I’d understand Davos’ pov. But this? Come on
I don’t think it is about importance of one person over the other. It is the reason. War is hell, people get killed, but killing a child (and others) as a sacrifice to a belief is another along with the Renly shadow baby. It may go down with Jon bringing it back to Davos with she was horrible to kill Shireen and yet, you asked her to bring me back to life. Without her, you and I wouldn’t be standing here. What do you propose I do? Maybe he’ll threaten Mel that there are things she can not do ever again or she is a dead woman walking or something.
My wish list to die this episode:-
House Frey in its entirety
The Small Council
Littlefinger – by Sansa
If even one of these comes true, a girl will end Season 6 a satisfied person.
Agree! Well said.
I feel the same way. I can’t possibly keep up with all the comments when the open chat is posted too early. Being at work most Sundays doesn’t help. Also as fun as it seems to share thoughts with others and see reactions on Twitter during the show I’d rather just put the phone away and emerse myself into what I’m watching. I don’t have any followers on Twitter anyway. I do like catching up with all the shock and awe when the tweets are posted here though. 🙂
Oh, for goodness sake! You seem to be trying to rationalize things from your point of view, whereas I am rationalizing them from the characters’.
Just because you think Davos has been hypocritical in his past dealings with Stannis and Melisandre doesn’t mean that Jon will. He doesn’t even know about half of those other things.
And remember that Jon was the one who stopped Mance Rayder’s brutal execution because he knew it was wrong. You think he’s gonna suddenly be cool with somebody burning a child to death?
But regarding Davos’s supposed hypocrisy, why are you ignoring that he didn’t blindly follow Stannis’s orders. He openly opposed many of them at risk to his own life.
He freed Gendry, who Stannis intended to sacrifice, knowing that his life would be forfeit.
I don’t know where you’re suddenly getting this idea that Davos is somehow hypocritical in his approach to burning innocent people alive.
Tormund isn’t going to start demanding justice for the dead Wildlings because they were killed in battle. They were part of an army trying to force their way into the Seven Kingdoms, in case you’d forgotten. The Kingdoms that Stannis had a claim to rule.
Honestly, I think you’ve totally lost sight of the characters’ points of view and motivations in favour of trying to justify keeping favoured characters alive.
I don’t know whether Jon will execute Melisandre for her crime, but suggesting that Davos might realise what a “hypocrite” he’s being when he calms down is just nonsensical and irrelevant to what’s actually been portrayed on screen.
I agree, they need to be posted closer to airing. Heavens knows we manage to keep older posts going well into the hundreds without starting that one up early!!
My Death predictions:
Grand Maester Pycelle
As I watched the preview for the finale, I saw Dany and Daario talking and she touched his cheek. I don’t think he dies. I think she may have to leave him behind to keep peace in Mereen. If someone dies in Mereen, it isn’t Daario. I hate to say this but I’m worried it might be Grey Worm. If they are sad, I think it’s because something happens to him.
In fact here’s my list of people I’m really worried about:
I’ll be shocked if anything happens to Littlefinger, Cersei, Tyrion, Varys, Melisandre, Dany, Jon, Sansa, or Arya.
I don’t like Cersei or Littlefinger, but it would still be surprising to me.
As for the Hound and that crew, I’m ambivalent. Maybe they will, maybe not.
I wasn’t talking about Davos when I said it doesn’t fly. I was talking about with the viewers and what we’ve seen depicted on the show so far.
Jaime killed the Mad King to stop him burning people alive.
Part of the Hound’s character development was his refusal to continue blindly following orders, including murdering children.
We all cheered when Meryn Trant got what was coming to him because he murdered Syrio and beat up little girls on his vicious king’s orders.
The Mountain murdered Elia Martell and her children on Tywin Lannister’s orders, not to mention children at the Mummer’s Ford, and we were supposed to root for Oberyn to finally get justice.
Same with Janos Slynt, the child killer, who eventually got his justice one way or another.
For the producers to suddenly turn around and act like murdering a child, even on a king’s orders, doesn’t deserve justice now that would be hypocritical.
As for Jon’s character arc, I’d be willing to accept some compromise if one can be found where he doesn’t ignore Melisandre’s crime but he doesn’t execute her immediately.
But the point of his character arc was not to reach a situation where he ignores his followers murdering children just because they happen to be useful to him.
Because she was a child who was innocent, because her father decided to sacrifice her, and because he had the means to do it (Mel) without doing it himself….
(I know you will ask about Olly – Olly took an action that was influenced by other’s hate, and made that hate his own. He acted on his own violition to kill Jon and obviously did not regret it….so…Jon didn’t have much choice)
I can see the moral dilemma both Jon and Davos will be in. Stannis brought Davos up to his position, so he’d naturally want to be loyal. But that doesn’t mean he had to agree with decisions. Remember back when Mel wanted to sacrifice Gendry. Davos wasn’t able to convince Stannis so he sent the boy on a row boat to espcape them. Davos was a fighter, and loyal to a fault, but was not one who’d follow orders without qestions (which is what got me about the whole burning scene – not one of those soldiers was able to override their loylty and following orders to at the very least give her the same mercy death that Jon gave the wildling king. )
Jon knows Davos will be loyal to him and will give him good advice. He may be thankful to Mel for bringing him back – tho at this point he might think its not been worth it an kill her off. Perhaps wait till the end, but do it anyway, because he know it would be the right thing to do.
It’s called “open CHAT” for the episode though, not “final pre-episode thoughts.” It’s suppose to be discussion for the evening’s episode. It essentially transfers episode expectations and speculations from the the week’s picture thread that has stalled out. I don’t typically post during airing because it’s a distraction. At most I’ll throw in a “holy shit!” or “Sansa sucks” like last week. 😛 The “recap” thread becomes the place to discuss what happened a while after it’s over so the discussion topics change completely. It’s not necessary to read all of the posts in open chat but it’s nice for those that follow it early and enjoy it. That week when the episode leaked through HBO Nordic and so many watched it early I really missed the level of participation in the open chat for those that did not watch early.
Re that shadow child: Though it was horrible to see, it prevented War and subsequent death of many. We take it as dark thing because of the way it is portrayed. If one of Daenerys’ dragons had done it, would we be saying these things? Perceptions
I just find it lame making Melisandre to be evil villain when the show has people being killed left, right and center most of the time. They are all killers! Again, why is Melisandre’s blood magic considered abhorring when the same blood magic helped Deanerys birth her dragons? One of those dragons which killed a three year old innocent child btw.
Why is Melisandre burning Shireen on the command of Stannis considered a terrible crime while Deanerys burning every Khal heroic?
Not sure I get the difference. Also not sure the difference between moral absolutist or fanatic. I think they are both fanatics – willing to do anything and hurt anyone to follow their belief system
This. I much rather enjoy the moment with my own eyes. Which is why I refuse to look at a sunset or an ocean with my eyes covered by a cell phone screen. Put down the bloody phone and experience beauty and wonder yourselves Your mind will make all the pictures you need (sorry off topic, and yes I am a dinosaur)
Yeah, Jon is someone who has a debt on a loan he never requested! I think that people are starting to circle around what night be important: whether Mel shows contrition for this. We certainly have seen evidence of this, but not confirmation. I suspect that we will: but this is a 60:40 call!
What really makes me lean toward Jon sparing Mel is that it would be an easy way out for him in terms of making sure that he is allowed to stay dead next time: and Jon is the sort who already has shown that he distrusts easy ways out. But, again: 60:40!
Fanatics work for beliefs that also are causes, such as religion. As such, they typically are working to change things to fit their beliefs. Stannis’ beliefs are not based on religion, but instead on the moral code of honor. He does (did) not work to make the world honorable or to make others honorable: instead, he just assumes that everyone accepts their place in this scheme until he has concrete proof otherwise: and thus that everyone is like him and doing what is honorable even when it is not desirable.
Rather than thinking about who might die, what about people who might show up? This season has brought back a bunch of characters from earlier seasons, what about Gendry? It would be ironic if the usurper’s son showed up at Meereen to work for Daenerys. Or someone new, like Howland Reed? If they do a scene with Sam, what about one of the interesting Oldtown characters?
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
You completely missed the point. Yes, my last post was supposed to be ‘rationalizing from my pov’ as a comeback to your previous post, where you did the same. That part where insinuate that Jon will punish Melisandre to please Davos to keep his loyalty.
Where in any prior episode has Jon done anything with a view of pleasing someone?
Re the part about hypocrisy: Yes, Davos isn’t hypocritical in his approach to burning people, but he is hypocritical in his approach to killing people. By sword or by flame, death is death and he has contributed to plenty of those.
And look, I’m never gonna agree with you that Melisandre murdered Shireen. That crime is Stannis’ doing.
I don’t think Mel is a villain necessarily, just mixed up about how her religion works. It’s burning an innocent child and others. She was the one proposed the idea of burning Shireen to Stannis. Example, Thoros of Myr didn’t sacrifice anyone to achieve a potential outcome. Mel has used burning people as a contrivance to exact a particular outcome. He killed people, but not for that reason. His faith has been based not contriving an outcome. Good point about the shadow baby, I’ll consider the pros and cons.
Don’t get me started on Dany and the dragons. I don’t find Dany heroic at all. However, in Dany’s defense, burning of the Khals was her only defense from getting physically violated and murdered. Dany is not a favorite of mine. Got problems with her storyline, but will see if that changes over time.
The blood magic scenarios are abhorring in both cases. Let’s start it was blood magic that brought back vegetative Khal Drogo with butchering his stallion.
No chance of me leaving a spoiler. I have no idea what’s going to happen next. The big fire this thread keeps referring to is news to me. I hope the Tyrells make it just because I enjoy the characters. I like the high sparrow as well (or the actor anyway). I don’t see how they can kill off Jamie or Cersi, they’re such main characters and I think they have to meet up with Tyrion towards the end. They seem to be bringing back missing members of the Stark clan, not killing them off. I was pleased they brought back the hound. I’m going to go out on a limb that probably won’t come to pass and predict that instead of this being an episode where a lot of people die it will be one of surprise resurrections. Maybe a Lady Stoneheart even? I’d thought I’d read on this site that the actress who played her was spotted in the vicinity of where they were filming. But I can’t remember if that was confirmed or just passed off as a rumor.
I think Jon will banish Mel. Keep in mind, Thoros is heading that way and can fill in for her and will jive better with Jon. Mel tells Arya they will meet again, that can happen anywhere.
However, if Arya shows up at Winterfell, Mel is a goner 100%.
I think loras is gone, mostly due to his fact that he has a new show and his story is essentially done.
So you make absolutely no distinction between deaths on this show? No context? No grey areas?
Janos Slynt murdering a baby is the same as Jon Snow killing Karl Tanner?
And while we’re at it, you blame Joffrey entirely for murdering that baby? Janos Slynt carries no blame?
I find your logic rather confusing, summed up by this comment:
You see absolutely no distinction between an absolutely innocent, helpless child being burnt alive and a group of violent, powerful, murderous, raping, enslaving warlords being murdered by one of their prisoners who they have just threatened with gang rape and a lifetime of slavery?
How have you been able to watch this show up until this point if your opinion of all the death and violence on the show is so black and white?
Yes, so true. The ‘open chat’ thread has already more than 100 comments and it still is over 3 hours to go before the episode airs. No way I can (or will) read that lot!
Hate to admit it, but I did post a ‘quickie’ to that thread, but will not check it again until after E10 has been shown. Lets hope its a good one 😉
I’d wager Cersei makes it out this episode alive, but most of the other characters in King’s Landing will not. It’ll be a Pyrrhic victory for her, because she’ll lose Tommen. Qyburn will survive, but I’d only give the Mountain around 50/50 odds (I know many are still holding out for Cleganebowl, but I don’t think there’s much left of Gregor in the undead skull).
Walder Frey is Arya’s to kill, so if she hasn’t teleported to the Riverlands then I think he’ll survive to be an early casualty of next season. Also, neither Brienne nor the Brotherhood seem overly concerned with bringing justice to the Freys. Jaime’s role will be: 1) to help Arya escape if she gets caught, 2) rescue Brienne if she and Pod have been captured making their way back North, or 3) be captured by the Brotherhood only to have Brienne appear to champion him in his trial. Small chance of Brienne being mortally wounded saving Arya and making Jaime swear to return her safely to Winterfell. While Bronn is a fan favorite, I don’t think his story has a happy ending.
I don’t expect any major casualties at Winterfell. Possibly Davos, but even there I think he’s more likely to survive another season than not. I half-expected to see a blue-eyed Dolorous Edd shambling toward towards Winterfell at the head of a bunch of wights last week (with some retroactive storyline filler via Bran this week), so I expect something like that will happen in real time this week. I don’t rate Benjen’s chances as particularly good.
I don’t know if Sam and Gilly continued to head to Oldtown or are heading back north with Heartsbane, so no predictions there other than I think they both survive along with little Sam. If Randyll Tarly is still in the picture, he could be given the Tyrell’s seat in the Reach in exchange for fealty to Queen Cersei the Mad.
In Meereen, I think it will be more matter of who stays behind than who dies. I don’t think she’ll have enough ships to carry all of the Unsullied and the Dothraki with her, so she may leave the former behind (against common sense) with Grey Worm and Missandei. If there’s a situation where someone has to sacrifice themselves to protect Dany, Daario and Theon are the the two top candidates. I also think one of the dragons could die this episode, as I half-expected one of them to be brought down by a catapult last week.
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