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In tonight’s episode of Game of Thrones, we find that broken men may be fixed, but they’re never quite the same.
Spoiler Note: This post is for those who have read the A Song of Ice and Fire series. The post and the comments section will contain spoilers from the novels! Because no, we are not all Unsullied now. If you haven’t read the books yet, please check out our non-book-reader recap. Thanks!
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Tonight’s episode unusually had a cold open, and the reason for it was quickly apparent. After all, a long-missing name in the opening credits would’ve been a big giveaway, wouldn’t it? That’s right, the Hound has returned to Game of Thrones.
Well, Sandor Clegane has. The Hound just might be dead, after all.
In “The Broken Man,” we find that instead of dying alone after his brutal fight with Brienne at the end of season 4, Sandor Clegane was discovered by a lay holy man, and is living in a Westerosi hippie commune led by his savior, Brother Ray (Ian McShane).
Sandor Clegane isn’t quite the man we saw last- more contemplative, though he’s as gruff as ever. Ray thinks the gods have something more planned for Sandor, but the former Hound isn’t so sure.
In King’s Landing, Margaery is selling her conversion like a champ. The High Sparrow corners her for another one of his trademark chats on the Bench of Truth to confront Queen Marg about avoiding her marital bed. It’s her duty to provide an heir, he reminds her- and it’s also her duty now to bring the Queen of Thorns over to their way of thinking.
Closely guarded by Septa Unella, Margaery visit her grandmother, and explains that Loras will be released once he confesses and repents of his sins. She strongly urges Olenna to leave the city, and slips a note into her hand. Her perfect mask slips then, and if you thought her conversion was for real, forget about it. Margaery is deep into this game, and I’m not sure she’s going to find her way out, but she is brilliant.
The Queen of Thorns takes the hint, and once away from the septa’s prying eyes, Olenna finds that Margaery has slipped her the Tyrell rose, signifying her true loyalty. Growing Strong, indeed.
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The wildlings Jon has been counting on for his army are asking some hard questions about marching south to fight, especially the ginger fellow who was at Hardhome (Murray McArthur). No, not Tormund- the other one.
Jon tells them that the Boltons will come for the wildlings when they’re done with Jon and his lot. Tormund backs Jon by reminding them that Jon literally died for them, and the Free Folk can’t argue with that. I mean that’s a tough one to beat in any debate.
Wun Wun adds his two cents: “Snow.”
And the wildlings are secured.
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Cersei and the Queen of Thorns have one last quality spat before Olenna heads out of town. Cersei’s attempt to guilt Olenna about leaving Loras behind is a nasty maneuver, but Olenna rightly points out that this is all Cersei’s fault so screw that. The Queen of Thorns knows the High Sparrow is aiming for her, and Cersei is an idiot for not getting out, herself.
Olenna is right about Cersei losing. Cersei encouraging Jaime to take the Riverrun assignment without considering she was in any danger showed a severe lack of foresight. Cersei’s arrogance and her overconfidence in her easily swayed son Tommen will be her undoing. Probably very soon.
Speaking of Riverrun, Jaime has arrived with the Lannister troops and Bronn. Hey buddy, where ya been! He’s still waiting for a rich wife and a castle, but his sharp wit is intact.
The Freys have made an absurd mess of the siege of Riverrun, trotting out Lord Edmure Tully and threatening him with hanging to try and force the Blackfish into surrendering. The Blackfish is an old hand at war and siege, and stonily ignores the threat. (Damn, it’s good to have Clive Russell back in this role, saying more with a long silence than most actors can with a dozen sentences.)
Jaime takes command of the botched siege, and sets up a meeting with the Blackfish.
It’s great to see Jaime in a more kinetic mode, now that the siege is on. He’s been wasted in King’s Landing this season, with stagnant Jaime-Cersei scenes, and now he’s back in action, showing his strengths and reminding us of who he is, separate from his sister.
I don’t think we’re getting the infamous baby-in-a-trebuchet threat, since Roslin Frey is nowhere to be seen, but hey, fingers crossed?
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Up in the North, Sansa, Jon and their retinue arrive at the first house to ask for help, the isolated Bear Island. They find House Mormont less than friendly, with the 10-year-old lady of the house Lyanna (Bella Ramsey) handing them their asses in short order. This is, after all, the same girl who told Stannis Baratheon himself where to stick it when he commanded her house’s assistance.
Davos has better luck, putting himself in Lady Lyanna’s place, using his silver tongue, and speaking frankly about the true war between the living and the dead.
With Davos’ words, Lyanna reconsiders and agrees to share her fighting men with them- all 62 of them. Jon sucks at hiding his dismay, but Davos gracefully accepts.
The Blackfish and Jaime parley at Riverrun, and it doesn’t go quite as the Kingslayer had hoped.
The Blackfish is summarily unimpressed with Jaime’s threats, and reminds Jaime of his oath regarding the Stark girls. He also points out that Riverrun can withstand a 2-year siege, and burn two years of Jaime’s life. Not exactly the rush job he thought he was signing up for.
The tough old Blackfish knew he wasn’t going to surrender when he came down to meet, but he tells Jaime, he wanted to get the measure of him. He’s disappointed.
Coming at this from a book reader’s perspective, I’m wondering where they’re going with this, since we haven’t spent a lot of time with the Blackfish, and it may not be apparent to everyone why Jaime would give a damn about this man being disappointed in him. The Blackfish is a legend, a war hero, and someone Jaime looks up to, but I don’t think the weight of that comes across if you don’t know the back story.
But at least we got that reminder of Catelyn, and Jaime’s vow to send the girls back. That should lead to an interesting discussion with Brienne next week.
At stop #2 on the Great Northern Recruitment Road Trip, Sansa, Jon and Davos don’t fare as well. Lord Robett Glover only got his castle back with the Boltons’ help, and doesn’t think highly of Robb Stark, who threw it all away and got everyone killed for his foreign wife. Sansa challenges Glover but his refusal is final: to him, House Stark is dead.
Over in Volantis, Theon and Yara are celebrating their getaway from the Iron Islands. Well, Yara and her men are. Theon is shaking and uncomfortable, surrounded by the prostitutes and festivities.
Yara can’t take it any more, him behaving as if he’s broken. She gives Theon a hardcore pep talk, full of tough love. I know some people will give Yara shit for not being sensitive enough but she’s an Iron Islander, not a psychotherapist, and she does love her brother in the only way her people know how.
And it works. Theon chugs his ale, makes a decision, and lifts his head, meeting her eyes. Perhaps he isn’t broken, after all. Theon will have a long road ahead of him, but his way back to himself begins here. Now the Ironborn siblings will be off to approach Daenerys with an offer.
There’s one more check-in with the Great Northern Recruitment Road Trip, as they set up camp. They’ve acquired a few more soldiers along the way, happily, but not nearly enough. After disagreeing with Jon over how to proceed, Sansa makes a decision of her own. She sends a raven, and I’m guessing this is to Littlefinger, because those Knights of the Vale would make a fantastic addition to any army. And they will come for Sansa Stark.
Okay, so let’s get this out of the way. Brother Ray is talking again and this is still not the Broken Men speech. You can’t call it a condensed version of it either; it’s something else, and damn it’s hard sometimes as a fan of A Song of Ice and Fire to let go and take in only what we are seeing onscreen. I would’ve liked to see/hear it performed because it’s a fantastic speech from A Feast for Crows, but once you recognize the feeling, then you have to set aside your disappointment and examine what is there, not what isn’t. And what is there is still very good.
Alright, moving on.
At Brother Ray’s HappyFunTime Commune, a trio of strange men come sniffing around and they’re clearly bad news. (Yeah I see you, Lem Lemoncloak.) They appear to be from the Brotherhood without Banners, only they’re not as fun as they were in season 3. Sandor can see it, and Ray can, being the ex-soldier that he is. But he is still looking to avoid a fight.
“Violence is a disease; you don’t cure it by spreading it to more people.”
“You don’t cure it by dying either,” Sandor replies.
Smart words, on both accounts. So much of the violence in Game of Thrones is the direct result of another act of violence, an endless cycle of vengeance and strategic retaliation that will never end until everyone involved is dead…or simply stops, as Ray has done.
Pacifism is an attractive option, but it isn’t the way of Westeros (that’s ignoring the larger problem of White Walkers who definitely don’t respect pacifism). Ray’s philosophy, while beautiful in its way, is impractical for their current war-stricken society. These people are sitting ducks.
In Braavos, Arya is acquiring passage back to Westeros. With that arranged, she has a day to kill. If that day doesn’t kill her first, which it might. Standing on a bridge, she’s approached by an elderly woman who suddenly stabs out at her- it’s the Waif in disguise, of course. She stabs her a few times in the stomach before Arya is able to break away from the Waif, and jump over the bridge into the water below.
She disappears into the water, and the Waif is satisfied she’s done. Arya surfaces nearby, bleeding badly. Staggering through the streets of Braavos alone, there’s no one to help to her, and this may be the end of Arya Stark.
Or so we’re meant to think. I’m fairly sure she’s not going anywhere anytime soon so my real questions are:
Why is Arya walking around undisguised in broad daylight, apparently unarmed, when she knows the Faceless Men intend to kill her now?
Jaqen ordered the Waif to carry out the assassination but to not let Arya suffer. Clearly multiple stab wounds to the gut is suffering, confirming once and for all that the Waif is a lousy Faceless person. So my question, how can Jaqen not be aware of this? I wondered before if he was testing her as well as Arya, and I’m still waiting to find out. I hope this is truly resolved, and not a gaping plot hole.
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Heading back to Westeros, one last time: to no one’s surprise, the sketchy men from earlier return while Sandor is out chopping wood and butcher the entire commune. Sandor comes back to find everyone dead, and Ray strung up.
Sandor walks away from Ray’s body and the peaceful life, and grabs the axe.
Assorted thoughts:
- Having the Hound back, I just grinned like an idiot whenever he was onscreen. I like that he isn’t exactly as he was, because he’s gone through a lot and change is believable. I’m looking forward to seeing how the old Sandor Clegane meshes with the new.
- I’m stoked for the show to have Yara be interested in women. It’s not important to the plot but I appreciate it.
- Ian McShane’s face is a wonderland. Are you sure we can’t keep him, Game of Thrones? I mean you recycled Dean-Charles Chapman… (yeah, yeah I know.)
- Lyanna Mormont spinoff, please. Bella Ramsey is amazing. I could watch her tear people down all day.
- Was that two weeks in a row with no Tyrion OR Ramsay? Is that a record? I can’t say I missed either one of them.
- The Broken Man- There are several in this episode: Theon, Sandor, Loras, disappointing Jaime, Edmure (so far a shadow of the lord we knew in season 3) and House Stark itself seems to be rather broken. But everyone and everything is fixable, until it’s dead.
He held the door :((
THE GRAVEDIGGER!!! I mean the Woodchopper! GET HYPE!!!!!!
HYPE
I’ll say it. Is there a good reason to omit the speech?
I so agree, my whole family was like holly shit that little girl is awesome!
There was so many good scenes in this episode. Yes, it was a “setup episode” but damn, GoT setup episodes are a lot better then most show’s payoff episodes if you ask me…
I think there might be one more twist coming in the Arya storyline – perhaps Lady Crane finds Arya and gets her back on her feet – but I’m not sure if it’ll be enough to satisfy everyone’s questions. My guess is that they’re going to go with the simplest answer (unfortunately), and try to move Arya out of Braavos as soon as possible. I can’t say I blame them. I’ve actually liked her scenes w/ the Waif this season, but I really just want everyone out of Essos and back in Westeros.
That Theon-Yara pep talk scene won’t work if Alfie doesn’t have impressive eyes acting skill.
Lyanna Mormont for Iron Throne Please…
This is actually 3 weeks in a row without Ramsay.
Did anyone else think the General sitting alongside Lyanna Mormont looked a lot like Stephen Dillane? Not saying it has any meaning whatso ever as obviously Davos would notice, but I couldn’t stop looking at him
I. Can’t. Even. Right.
NOW!
Holy Hound! What a great cold opening…. I almost thought it was a mistake or a preview of another show.
BRILLIANT D&D
So many things to think about for the next week,but Keep Calm
and
Get The Hound
Eh, there was no good reason to keep it either, other than fanservice for book readers.
It would’ve been nice to hear it, but I can live with its omission.
At the end of season 5, I would’ve given an LSH appearance a 5% chance of ever happening. Now, with the return of a more cruel, murderous Brotherhood, I’m saying 75%.
Maybe the Broken Men speech was in the original script, but then cut? Does that explain the shorter episode run time?
I’m waiting for all the people who spent the last week whining about Jon becoming a “secondary character” to Sansa to comment that their initial reaction to a 30 second clip was off base.
In other news, though it’s more than likely that Sansa sent the letter to Littlefinger, I’m hedging my bets. I’m thinking…or perhaps hoping…the “obvious” isn’t so obvious. Also, I’m not sure why Sansa would sign a letter to Baelish as “Sansa Stark” and attach the Stark sigil to it. Btw, did they mention House Hornwood in this episode?
I felt it was a decent episode. A lot of build up. Spent too much time with the Hound (I felt), but ok overall.
I bow to Lyanna Mormont. The Queen in the North!!
Davos=pimp.
I think I’m the only one who’s not excited about the Hound comeback. Maybe it’s the timing or the circumstances. I don’t know how to analyze all my feelings and put into words like most of ya’ll do lol.
1-“I’m stoked for the show to have Yara be interested in women. It’s not important to the plot but I appreciate it.”
Please elaborate.
At first I was annoyed at change in general but now I’m on the fence.
2 – Yes, this is the first time EVER that Tyrion hasn’t appeared in two consecutive episodes.
RosanaZugey,
Well to be clear Rosana, we weren’t happy with it so far and were worried that it would continue in the same vein. But thankfully it didn’t 🙂
Sword of the Morning,
McShane said he got a two page speech sent to him when he was originally asked, and the one he gave tonight didn’t seem like two pages worth of dialogue.
Maybe it’s just my imagination, but it seems like Tyrion’s been onscreen a total of 15 minutes the whole season. Very odd for a character who’s been central to the story for the first 5 seasons.
Not to sound nit-picky, but shouldn’t the ironborn be paying the iron price? Seems like they just made a convenient pit stop at Volantis
I think It’s this speech that he got but it didn’t make it to the episode :/
What if Sansa was writing to Jaime, not Little finger…”fulfill your duty”‘ as in the vow he made to Catelyn Stark to protect her daughters? Lannister troops could certainly turn the tide at Snowbowl.
The show has spent FIVE SEASONS building up Jon and making him the default “Hero Good-Guy” who does no wrong. That you guys have fits over them now building up another character who has spent those same FIVE SEASONS being shitted on by every other character seems a bit greedy.
Could Beric be dead for good this time?
The HBO Now thumbnail for next episode preview shows Varys and Tyrion walking the streets of Meereen. Tyrion has acquired a blue cape to match his outfit, and looks magnificent, but amidst the shabby Meereenese, he also looked as odd as Mace did in Braavos.
So many questions! What’s up with the BwB? I thought they were for the smallfolk and downtrodden. Or is it ok to murder non-Lord of Light worshippers?
How can Arya possibly be moving around with multiple gut stabbings? Or survive, though we know she will.
Why doesn’t anyone Jon goes to wonder about his NW vows?
Where is Ghost??!
Tune in next week. . .!!?
“Ian McShane’s face is a wonderland. Are you sure we can’t keep him, Game of Thrones?”
I’m so in agreement with that statement. I’ve had a serious crush on Ian McShane for years and simply love everything he does. I, also, wish we could have gotten “The Broken Man” speech but I’ll take anything with Ian in it.
I loved seeing Sandor back, a little subdued but still … um … the Hound. I know he’s gone through a lot and it’s an interesting journey to watch him become who he’s supposed to be. Picking up the axe after seeing Brother Ray strung up, my first reaction was … Oh, Shit! Y’all don’t know the hell you just brought down on yourselves.
What can anyone way about Clive Russell as the Blackfish? The man has a thousand-yard-stare to beat everyone else and it’s clear he really doesn’t think much of Jaime or the ensuing siege. He already thinks of Edmure as dead so why would he give Riverrun away? I wouldn’t and I’m not even him.
When I saw the “elder woman” on the bridge with Arya I shouted at the TV! I love Arya but that was just plain stupidity to be walking around Braavos undisguised and in the open. I don’t think she’ll die … I may be wrong. I do think Jaqen knows what the Waif is doing and I don’t think she’s long for this world. Despite his devotion to the Many-Faced God, Jaqen has a real soft spot for Arya.
Knowing where the Stark army is camped, I’m pretty sure we’ll see Davos finding out about Shireen next week. Let’s hope he does some serious confronting of Melisandre about that.
One more thought … I was quite pleasantly surprised to learn that Yara is a lesbian. It, truly, does fit her character, don’t you think?
Enough for now … lots to take in and I’ll need a couple of more viewings to catch the rest of the intricacies.
Two comments –
They were trolling us with the anvil, right? They had to know we were thinking Gendry.
I wondered before if he was testing her as well as Arya, and I’m still waiting to find out. I hope this is truly resolved, and not a gaping plot hole.
I think there is something I missed in all the Arya scenes this season that would explain what seem to be nasty, fatal wounds. It made no sense she would be so brazen in being in the open. Was that the real Arya? She was almost waiting for the Waif. But the Waif would have known if she had armor on based on the way the blade acted … flesh and steel do not react the same … and it did not look like a fake wound … and the whole scene was almost surreal. And the Waif has not been acting like a FM would be expected to act – too much emotion. I hope this is not a dream/psychotic episode for Arya. I know she will survive but the how escapes me.
Well his negotiation scenes with the three slave-masters were pretty good.
RosanaZugey,
They did, when they were counting men in the camp. House Hornwood has already joined the Stark army (off-screen).
Random predictions:
Cersei decides she SHOULD “kill all her enemies” and is the next one to say “kill them all.”
Arya gets help from Lady Crane.
Sansa is this season’s “unexpected Stark death” – in episode 10.
Yeah that whole Arya-Waif scene was weird. I did consider maybe it was fake blood from the theater troupe, but the Waif was really stabbing in deep and all over, and how did Arya know that the Waif wouldn’t just slit her throat, or poison her or do something else. It doesn’t make much sense.
RosanaZugey,
House Hornwood in this episode?
No. Did Ramsey marry Lady Hornwood
and let her starve to death on the show as well?
Stirring things,
Yes. When Olenna asked Cersei ‘are you going to kill them all by yourself’, I was thinking ‘She can! Don’t give ideas’.
Doesn’t the preview for next week show Tyrion in the great pyramid and he here’s a thump on the roof which is probably Dany/Drogon?
The Dragon Demands,
Interesting that his book storyline was accelerated on the show but now they seem to be in a pause mode until Dany returns …
Jack Bauer 24,
Yes it does. I was speaking of the thumbnail for that video. The image/scene I spoke of does not appear in the preview. The thumbnail for episode 5 had the children of forest from Bran’s vision, but it was also not part of the preview.
ETA: I’m not confident it is Dany/dragons that cause the chandelier to shake, but some trebuchet action from the harpies.
I doubt it. They’d get so much shit from people, after having her come into her own after all of last season’s rape controversy, just to kill her off when she does. And they would probably deserve that heat, frankly. Besides, didn’t Sophie let it slip that she survives this season? Rickon, however, I feel is probably a goner.
Ah. Ok. Thank you. I didn’t really hear what Jon was saying because people (in my house) were talking during that scene (I know…I should have kicked them all out. ? Freaking peeps have a knack for talking during the Sansa/Jon scenes. *Grumbles* ?) Thanks for letting me know.
Yes they did.House hornwood pledged their men to them and house mazin too
Will Edmure/Rickon get any dialogue or will they go out like Olly?
Yeah. She said she read through the scrips and saw “death…death…death” but she was ok.
Loved the episode .
Loved the actress who played lyanna mormont..a lot of talents in child actors she did an amazing job like young cersei did last season ..loves the look on Jon face when she said how many men she has got .
Loved that sandor is back and bronn and blackfish is back and get to ian mcshane in GOT .
Arya definitely had an idea and she was prepared for the attack..
The cinematgrophy for this has been brilliant than previous seasons.
Two episodes without peter dinklage .color me surprised I thought that will never happen ..looks like we will be not having dany next episode which means no Emilia for 2 consecutive episodes as well ..if she didn’t appear in next then I think episode 9 will be like hard home..because no way she is going to appear only in 6 episodes ..
Victoria of the Vale,
I agree. All the time he appeared onscreen, I was lamenting that he is gonna die soon. But, maybe Ray has an ‘Elder Brother’ who also chose the path of the Seven? 🙂
quick take – despite the lack of the speech I thought overall this episode was full of great dialogue. I’m a little dussapointex it wasn’t there but the dialogue we had was still great. Very good episode overall. I hope arya lives.
Rory. Ian. Bella. Triple threat.
I do hope that the demise of Sandor’s new family doesn’t simply plunk him back to his old Hound.
I’ve missed that voice for 2 years. Benjen, now Sandy, happy me.
Baby Bear Bella seems to be going to war alongside everyone else, right? We’ll get to see her in the next two episodes, I’m hoping. Please don’t kill Baby Bear.
I don’t think it was coincidence that the Hound & Arya scenes were back-to-back. ROAD TRRRIP!
So we’ve had 2 awesome Lyannas this season.
Apparently if your having trouble with a recalcitrant adolescent girl call in Davos Seaworth; he’s the Teenager whisperer. (perhaps we can get him to talk to Tommen, yes?)
aabe,
oh yes:
Olenna: the people despise you … you are surrounded by enemies … thousands of them … you’ve lost Cersei
Only one thing left to do … burn them all
It seems there are more than usual that really didn’t like this episode. For me it wasn’t anything outstanding, but still quite enjoyable. I think many of the shots were pleasingly cinematic, I’m happy to find out Margaery is bluffing and who didn’t love her conversation with grandma plus Olena/Cercei was good dialogue. The Blackfish was perfect, Jamie got knock down a little peg for a moment, we got a good feeling for how the rallying is going in the north, nice introduction to Lyanna M and Glover house. I could have done without the long Hound scenes though I did like the little speech about the gods. Even a little thing like Wun wun standing up for Jon, which I didn’t expect. Next week looks awesomely action packed though!
RosanaZugey,
I agree…I wondered why so much screen time for the hound…is this another twust we know nothing of & why would he be important…?
aabe,
I know they can fling stuff quite a way but, THAT far? From the base of a pyramid to the top? And a projectile big/heavy enough to make the stones wobble? HTF would you move something capable of throwing stones that big thru the city unseen? I would think/hope that the unsullied would stop the agitators (for lack of a better word)
Loose dragons nomming on the populace at random would rekindle war in the city though…
dragonbringer,
She is slated to appear in ep 9 for sure. I was actually surprise at that because I assumed that one would all be devoted to the north and BOB.
DireWolfHeart,
Loose dragons nomming on the populace at random would rekindle war in the city though…
Yes, the two finally took the bait and left the lair … would be so awesome … not for the people … but it would be interesting to see what happens next re dragons and riders
SaveTheWolves,
Everyone’s so sure that araya will make it, but idk man. She got stabbed pretty bad, there’s no way that’s her jumping in the preview already!
nandydrew,
I think they had to quickly go though a transformation from pacifist-like hound to revenge-minded hound and one who is focused on the BwB. Plus they gave us the show version of the Broken Man speech. Maybe a harbinger for Jon if he sees Rickon slain … the Hound was all but dead … Jon died …
RosanaZugey,
Yeah we are just greedy little shits. Um, thanks for putting us in our place?
But… really? Lighten up a little would ya? That kinda pissed me off cause there’s no reason to be so hostile toward people who had only expressed a subjective, impersonal opinion.
The Manderlys were mentioned a couple times this episode, so when Sansa was writing her letter my first thought was that they may be bringing the Manderlys into the show. I hope they do, but it was most likely that the message was to Little Finger.
I’m not liking the idea of the BwB now going around murdering innocents.
Didn’t miss for one second either Evil Overlord Ramsay or another Boring-Meereen-Politics-Discussion-To-Justify-Tyrion
I just re-watched the cold open again. What an amazing scene, just the combination of those beautiful shots overlayed with Ramen’s score, culminating in the return of the Hound. It was awesome.
I finally went back and read Ian McShane’s comments and all I have to say is lol.
RosanaZugey,
Maybe the other houses are left for the next episode.
All this could be in the next episode.
I am beyond excited to have Sandor back and while it’s easy to think with him grabbing that axe that “The Hound” is back too, it just feels like it will be different. The band of outlaws just killed innocent, unarmed people. In the past, The Hound wouldn’t have given it much thought. It’s a consequence of war. I am kind of feeling like Sandor might be the one to defend the “weak” against these people. He will get vengeance for Brother Ray and save others from that fate.
It’s a satisfying contrast to his line in the book about “The Gods made the weak for the strong to play with…”.
This
Is it possible Arya put her face on someone else? I guess they would have left it with her drowned in the water then and not had her walking around with the gut wounds if that’s what it was. Or was the real Arya watching and then faked the wounds to match and then is now waiting for the Waif to come back to finish the job? That’s too convoluted.
I would like to express my satisfaction how Jaime’s horse, (named Honor in the books) held his head high when Jaime was riding to the Frey camp.
What if Arya pulled a switch on the Waif? I know this is probably far-fetched, but imagine that Ayra has somehow given her appearance to the younger, jealous, murderous actress from the troupe. It would explain why she was stumbling around, truly shocked at being stabbed and at bleeding. She looked baffled…. and the last we saw of Arya last week, she was hidden away, prepping for the attack she *knew* was coming. Where was needle? Staring out in the open? No. I don’t buy it for a moment.
Lemon-hype!
I hope he gets a memorable death next week. Like Jory.
🙁
Everytime I would complain about “ANOTHER” Hound scene, my friend kept saying, “This has to be important. HE has to be important somehow if they’re bringing him back and giving him so much screen time.” I agree with her that he has to be important somehow. And I’m thinking that it might have more to do with the Brotherhood Without Banners than “CleganeBowl” (obligatory: “GET HYPE!!!”). But how, and in what capacity, I’m not sure. Your guess is as good (if not better) than mine.
Ren Snow,
Seriously. Mereen has been hit or miss, but I’ve hated mostly everything in Winterfell with the exception of Smalljon Umber’s visit.
-Ramsey eulogizing Myranda: crap
-Ramsey’s ensuing chat with Roose: crap
-Ramsey murdering Roose: crap
-Ramsey murdering Walda: crap
-Ramsey murdering Osha: crap
Just have someone kill Ramsey and be done with it already.
I’ve watched the Arya scene many times. While she was acting a little different, not to mention really nonchalant prior to the attack, I’m not ready to say anything ‘goofy’ was going on. She took three wounds, a slash and two stabs, with the second being a bad one. I think she finds help and is recovering when the Waif sees her again. That’s when she runs, jumps off the building and eventually finishes the Waif, all while still injured. That explains the trailer image we believe is her arm and smearing blood on a wall. That’s what I’m going with until proven differently – none of the someone else is wearing her face stuff. I could believe a dream sequence, but that’s a total f-you to the viewers.
I agree with others…the opening blacksmith shot was cruel and unusual punishment.
– Good speculation from all! I am happy that the Hound dominated this “Broken Man” episode.
– My expectations were too high for the “Broken Man” speech but it was good to see McShane interact with McCann
– Still wondering how/if the BwB have become truly disjoint with a serrated agenda. Hmmmmm….something needs to connect the dots here.
– KL was excellent! Marg is mesmerizing and the Cersei and QoT interaction was quite enjoyable. I can see fire in Cersei’s eyes already
– Wun Wun makes my day everytime! Great integration
– Surprised by House Mormont and Lyanna. Children are integrated so well on this show
– The House Glover interaction was very satisfying and insightful
– Jon and Sansa aren’t a very solid team yet. Was Sansa’s letter really written to LF or another? Are LF’s earlier remarks starting to fester within Sansa?
– Great adaptation at RR, to include Edmure’s treatment and the BF-JL parley. All I needed to hear was “Kingslayer”, “Blackfish” and “without Arya or Sansa, are you resuming your role as prisoner then?” (paraphrasing) and I was good.
– Such Ironborn silliness. I really want R&V to burn their fleet.
– Arya wasn’t acting very “No One”ish or “Arya”ish and the Waif definitely wasn’t intending to limit the suffering. Hmmmmm. Not all is what it seems…
Good episode. Last three eps should be spectacular.
Very nicely said! 🙂 And true enough, I wouldn’t mind seeing him swinging that axe around a bit. 😉
I just thought of something (I haven’t read all of the comments, so maybe someone else has come up with this already). Maybe the Broken Men speech could be one of the “History and Lore” videos this season. It would be perfect for that.
I thought Sansa was supposed to be a master player this season. She is either a total idiot or she is really playing Jon. She does not trust Davos, the man responsible for Jon being alive and then turns around and trusts LF’s info and asks LF for help. After knowing everything LF has done to her and the Arryns. It’s almost like she is trying to drive a wedge between Jon and Davos while at the same time trying to get LF’s help behind Jon’s back.
And her keeping vital info about a large Vale army from Jon and then berating him for fighting with less men is totally selfish. Why can’t she give him that info and then see what decision he makes? Jon is making decisions based on the limited information he has. Sansa is deliberately limiting that info and his options. I suspect this will be to gain the upper hand over Jon after the battle.
Loved all the north storylines, as well as KL storyline and the Hound being back.
But, disappointed and confused with the Arya storyline. Arya has been training with the FM now for weeks, months, may even be years. What was she doing walking around streets of Bravos completely relaxed and unaware? With all her training and experience with the FM, with the warning from Jacen that there will be no third chance, shouldn’t she have been in disguise or hiding or atleast using some stealth? The waif took her completely by surprise. What was the point of all that training and hard work, if the first enemy you face manages to get you and stab you? Aria has been one of my favorite story lines, with Maise among my top favorite actors in this series, but I just don’t get this week’s episode.
Old Nan's Pie,
Even Victorian did it in the books in one of the free cities and it irked him but was necessary … perhaps Yara and Theon are a little less rigid than their elders.
Stirring things,
Yes, the acting troupe will disguise her! But not sure if she’d be any closer to home. And where the hell is Needle anyway!
Jack Bauer 24,
The previews would seem to indicate that Brienne gets the book!Edmure role so he may have very limited speaking time but what happens after the castle is yielded is not clear
After watching the episode again, it’s surprising that Arya let her guard down. Didn’t she expect the faceless men coming after her? It seemed she was preparing for a fight at least, in episode 6. She better has a plan.
So watched it twice now. This episode feels like the shortest in the history of the series-but there were some amazing bits.
The opening was wild. I’ve seen a few other people say this-but I actually looked over at my husband when it started because it was so different it didn’t feel like Westeros. The lighting-men and women smiling-it was a barn raising in the age of Aquarius and all was right with the world. 🙂 And Sandor was there carrying a tree all by himself!
I loved it.
Ian was fantastic-great job. I did wonder about Broken Man speech BUT Meribald gave that speech to Brienne and Pod in the books-talking about other people-people like the Hound. This Septon was tailor made for the Hound. No bull, just straight talk. The things he’d done on orders, the shame he felt in the night… Sandor can argue with anyone-but it seemed like this guy got through to him.
Oh and I adored his Red God, Old God, who knows, but there is something bigger than us and it has plans for you. Just fantastic.
The BWB obviously doesn’t have Beric anymore. Without the Mountain and wandering Lannister soldiers to fight they’re just criminals now.
The Hound will sort them out–then hopefully, do something good with his skills, like kill his brother and some White Walkers (Sam? Can he borrow Heartsbane?)
Marg confirmed her genius and broke my heart in her scenes. It’s clear she’s struggling to keep to script, but she is still playing. She was so good she got the HS to slip. He doesn’t associate himself with the “they” the poor downtrodden. He has the king and queen in his power, why should he? It was subtle, but there. And he is in every facet of their lives, even their bedroom. Marg’s face when he threatens Olenna…
Olenna threatening to bash Unella around was great. And the rose “I’m still here, growing strong, get out of KL before you make any plans!”
Marg almost cried when she left, and you knew she wanted to go with her. But I really do think saving Loras is her focus now. It certainly isn’t Tommen.
Olenna and Cersei was epic. It reminded me of Tywin writing letters when she was trying to talk to him. He shot her down-you’re not as clever as you think you are-about the Tyrells actually. This scene was proof. She tried to guilt Olenna, she tried to humble herself and obligate Olenna–nothing worked. “I don’t know if you’re the worst person I’ve ever met” OMG yes-Queen of Thorns can read my mind. And Cersei was shaking like a rage terrier. She is about the blow and I’m kind of looking forward to it.
In the Riverlands, Jamie finally got to use his golden hand to pimp slap someone-and every word out of Bronn’s mouth is classic Bronn and perfect. Edmure has fallen into the Princess Bride “I’ll most likely kill you in the morning” and Blackfish isn’t remotely impressed with any of it.
Arya. That can’t be Arya right? Wtf were all those training montages for if she’s just going to hang out on a bridge in broad daylight without a weapon and wait to be stabbed? This has to be a plan. But…that’s a lot of blood for a plan. And the Waif? Failed her test. She’s a hateful brat. That can’t be what the FM are. The twisting of the knife was very significant.
The North
Wildings are the best. Tormund’s speech finally acknowledges that yes, Jon DIED for you, remember?
Lyanna Mormont needs to rule the world. And Davos needs to be the Hand of whoever rules the world, because he is brilliant.
The Glovers scene showed the truth behind the last few years. War and betrayal, loss and exhaustion–they aren’t going to follow blindly just because they hear the name Stark.
I need someone to smack Jon a little and get him out of this slump. He’s still shaken up-it’s obvious-and he needs to remember who he is.
I’m not saying Sansa’s evil or anything so don’t shoot the messenger, but she is being incredibly rude to Davos–who has thrown himself 100 percent into her battle. You can’t deny she’s coming off as a bit entitled. But she is getting a rude awakening that the North from her memory has been just as abused as she’s been-and it’s changed.
And I get that Jon saying this is it, this is what we have, made her panic. She is desperate to get her home away from Ramsay and to finally have control over her life.
But is she really not going to tell him about LF? It’s looking more and more like she’s going to let Jon lose people loyal to him and let LF do LF-wherein the Vale swoops in and saves the day at the last minute and he looks great and loses very little-because that’s how he rolls.
I hope I’m wrong. The start of this season was perfect for Sansa, but the last person she should be hiding info from is her brother. And the last person she should be trying to handle one on one is LF–because he always has something up his sleeve.
On a side note: I’ve been so surprised at her lack of surprise. She didn’t react to army of the dead or Jon resurrection or Wun Wun? Am I the only one that finds that odd? IS she just continuously freaking out off screen?
Yara’s moment with Theon was genuine and really well done imo
Last bit
The preview made me angry-and it’s all Jaime’s fault. I might be breaking up with him and voting for Tormund instead. Someone please tell him his sister is crazy so he can hop back on redemption road.
Davos was right a few episodes ago when he said men will only back you in war they think they can win. That Glover House? He kept insisting on how much men Jon had, but clearly didnt think Wildings were strong enough to beat the Boltons and used that as the final excuse as to why he wouldnt join them. They fear the Boltons, which is why he said “Id be skinned just for talking to you.” Wonder how his tune changes when/if the Vale shows up with their troops.
Bryan,
GASP!
How come I don’t think of great things like that?
I think those outlaws are like 3rd gen BwB. They’ve gone from being well meaning initially to a darker group with the effects of war and turnover of personal. This lot is brutal.
Still baffled by Arya. What if Jaqen was being Arya to really test the Waif? Still doesn’t explain that surreal wounded walk through the townspeople. Very strange!
However, hurray for the Hound!
Can someone help me with filming spoilers?
In regards to the “does Arya have something planned and is just playing the Waif” argument, I have to tend to think that she does even though it’s hard to imagine that that stabbing was faked. Besides the fact that Arya would be uncharacteristically dumb for not having her guard up at such a time, the only concrete evidence I have is that in the next trailer we see
Also if Arya leaves Braavos with out having considerable more skill and knowledge than she arrived with and that she can’t even best the Waif without it being a close thing, it would seem like a waste of two seasons. I feel like she is going to best the Waif in a clever way.
Yeah I was hoping for an end where he would dig all their graves, aka the Gravedigger but a sense that unlike the Hound, Sandor does believe in some small acts of generosity, but I understand the symbolism of “having an axe to grind” literally
The Waif would be an expert micr-stabber, knows where to stab to get a fatal wound that will take a long time, knows where to twist the knife to get suffering. Think that will be her undoing
What really struck me of course is Arya wasn’t carrying Needle with her in any of these scenes…
Great episode for exploring the thematics of Broken Men. Whether this is BwB or a splinter group (great having Lem Lemoncloak in there given he now has the Hounds helmet in the books) or even outright imposters, great it is hinting at the BwB being broken men despite the fact they may be rallying the smallfolk against the Freys as well?
Great setup for having the Starks right at the same camp as Stannis, we are set for some serious drama next week methinks
Ravyn,
No, it’ll be a miscarriage or birth scene…. I’m saying she’s preggo and I don’t mean Italian!
That… that has now become one of my favorite episodes. SANDOR!!!! I’m SO goddamn happy he was shown within the first few minutes of the opening!!!! I cheered! I hugged my dog (that’s his namesake)! I was expecting some end scene with a slow reveal of his return but NOPE! We got it straight away and I’m so pleased.
I don’t think they read this stuff but THANK YOU David, Dan, Bryan, and of course the director Mark. I loved this episode. Cannot wait to see the next!
Yara and Theon had me crying like a damn baby again. I hope they get that pact with Dany. Bella was perfect for the role of Lyanna Mormont. That kid is a badass! Her voice reminded me of another child actor and I can’t quite place it. Anyway I’m not one for long ramblings but yeah I freaking loved this episode.
Wun Wun: “Snow…” Ah, so great 🙂
The only thing that I was kinda on the fence about was the Arya scene. Jeez, I don’t know how she’s going to survive all those stabbings. I thought it went by a bit quick. Of course the “No One” episode coming up might make up for that. Maisie was brilliant as always though.
Although the choice of words would seem to suggest otherwise, I honestly wasn’t trying to be a bitch in the previous comment or make judgments on anyone’s personal character. It really just upsets me that in the RARE RARE moments this show gives Sansa to be something more than a victim, or someone else’s pawn, that those moments would be frowned upon or taken as some affront to the dignity and importance of another character. Everyone watching this show understands the importance of Jon. He has been…and will be…the ‘hero’ of the story. He’s the “Song of Ice and Fire”, Azor Ahai, R+L=J, etc, etc. His role and his importance in this saga has already been accepted and he’s beloved for it. He is a ‘main character’ and no one is going to take that from him, least of all Sansa. So, why not let someone else shine for a minute or two? Why not let the fans of another character have a moment or two to see HER develop and become something more than a victim, or someone else’s “fucktoy” (literally). This development is 6 seasons in the making. Like…give us that, please. Because we’ve waited a long time for this.
Do seem to recall something about a stirring speech, though that may be Manderly (here’s hoping)
It is possible that as we’ve had a Kingsmoot, a Khalsmoot so we’ll get a Lordsmoot perhaps?
What Lord Glover said was perfectly legitimate, so even as a Stark fan I loved that scene despite him saying no etc, there is a possibility he could change sides, eg it mirrors this idea that Sandor is dead but then he comes back roaring with a vengeance and an axe to grind!
I read this in a review … interesting
Also the walk mirrors Cersei’s walk of atonement last season. Arya is the subject to some of the same frosty, callous stares. And what does she have to atone for? Did you forget? She left the Hound dying from his wounds when he was begging for mercy.
Since I didn’t see Stannis beheaded by Brienne I’ll assume he’s still alive and that the vision of Melisandre’s victory she foresaw will come to play. Maybe he comes in to save the day with an army of his own.
I think Sansa is writing Robin Aryyn, not Littlefinger.
Unless that’s just the first part of her dream, and in the second part she suddenly
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about the Arya scene a lot, and like so many others, think something is just not adding up.
Was it just me or is it possible the Lannister army will take up for the Starks? They made a big deal about showing their strength and mentioning their numbers. Maybe Brianne will inspire Jamie next week.
Also, about Arya, where did she get the bags of gold? WTF is going on in Braavos? Why is she wandering around without Needle?
Lady Mormont is very pwerfully symbolically
Not just because “I raise your 20 good men and give you 62” with all that comes with it lol
But it’s to do with the letter, eg do the Starks come back as Lords, Wardens or do they come back as Kings (and Queens) so it is an up yours to Tommen as much as it is to Ramsay
This is an important twin to the Blackfish, eg Jaimie tells Blackfish that as a Tully he is “trespassing” in Riverrun according to Tommen
Pretty dull episode to be honest. Much of it dedicated to the Hound, lets hope its worth it. What gets me most is how the show continue to eff up Arya’s story line.
The last few weeks they made her go from a blind girl who beat the waif to a non-blind girl who got humiliated by the waif, throwing away development for supposed ‘drama’.
Its the same once again, sadly. Last week we see Arya recognizing the possibility of the FM coming after her and going to isolation with her needle preparing for the worst. But now all of a sudden, she gets a makeover, its all forgotten and she’s roaming around Braavos freely with little hint of worry. Worst of all she puts on a ‘Surprise face’ when the Waif stabs her…..
Like wtf? A little bit of continuity and consistency would be appreciated.
shane,
Doubtful, Brieene said she killed him herself. But she could have just said that to piss off Mel and Dav.
BranTheBlessed,
Shes not that stupid, I think there is more to this.
Sansa? She is acting like a teenage girl hiding the identity of her secret-crush from her friends. She really needs to stop this bullshitting and come clean. They are marching for war where their lives are at stake ffs!
I go back and forth on being totally optimistic and really cranky about Sansa lying to Jon. I can rationalize why she’s doing it, but it’s mostly feeling like stupid drama UNTIL she tells him.
But I think he’s going to be really frustrated with her. He wasn’t happy with her when she spoke up with Glover and you could tell he was really irritated with how snarky she was being to Davos. In some ways, the things about their personalities that would make them not get along came out, especially with Sansa being a little high and mighty and Jon being stubborn. I don’t think he’s going to be happy that she lied, regardless of whether he accepts Vale help. We got our happy Stark scenes but as Sophie has made very clear, she’s going to do what she thinks is right vs. Jon and Davos, and Jon isn’t going to be happy.
I wonder how much he’ll trust her even if she tells him the truth, even if in episode 8 she says “ok so I lied I met with LF about the Vale army but I turned it down and lied to you about it and then I lied again and reached out to him but great news I have an army!” I’m sure he’ll be pissed, but he’ll also rightfully ask at what cost this all came at, and the fact that he wasn’t consulted is going to feel wrong to him.
And like I’ve posted before, in the end Sansa’s story isn’t with Jon, it’s with LF. She’s nowhere near Jon and most importantly there’s zero chance of her getting to Winterfell in the books. So unless D&D have said fuck it all, I don’t think the Jon/Sansa team is staying together. She maybe goes off South with LF while Jon stays North, because I don’t think her story is to sit in Winterfell. I just hope they part well if that happens.
I really enjoyed this solid episode, even if I am admittedly more excited for the bloodbath that is to come next week. The music was on point for Sandor’s storyline, that idyllic sense that something horrible was going to happen about any second now.
Lyanna Mormont might be my new favorite contender for the Iron Throne. She’s a badass ten-year-old, even if there is a hint of tragedy at the circumstances that brought her to that chair. i like the slight resentment the show is bringing forth on why not everyone is fawning over the Starks like the audience generally does. It makes quite a bit of sense and helps ground the story, honestly. Thoughts
Absolutely stoked to have the Hound back! McShane (unsurprisingly) crushed it as Ray. Personally I would have loved a bit more direct a version of the Broken Men speech, especially considering how much screen time the Hound and Co got. Although I guess the overall effect was pretty similar, just lacked the same kind of punch.
The Manderly thing really has me wondering. To my recollection, they’ve name dropped Manderly 3-4 times this season. Would seem appropriate to have him in the show, but I don’t recall their banners being in any of the battlefield pictures (from filming) or in the battlefield scenes in the trailers (then again, the Vale banners weren’t in the pictures or trailers either, and there’s a fairly good chance that they’ll be at the battle, so who knows?)
Speaking of the Vale, tell me your opinion. Now, once again, it’s almost 90 percent certain she sent the letter to Littlefinger, so, there might not be some grand twist going on…but let’s entertain the idea that there is. How plausible is it that she sent the letter to Lord Royce, and in it, she tells him that Littlefinger is withholding the Vale troops from helping her…he’s at Moat Caitlyn with them now….please help. If he listens (because apparently, people outside of the North have more respect for the Stark name than Northerners do. Plus, that’s how she got him on her side in the first place, by using her Stark name), then she can end up with the Vale armies without having to ask LF for the help directly. Would be a pretty masterful play. Do you think that’s even remotely plausible, or is that ‘fanfic’ run amok in my head?
It is a little odd to cast McShane and then NOT do one of the best parts of Martin’s work – even just parts of it?
RosanaZugey,
I think in this case the most straightforward answer is what we see – Sansa sees the size of Jon’s army, realizes he’s not going to ask for any more help, and then just makes the decision she needs LF. I’m not sure there’s any time for weird machinations. Plus, if she’s playing LF I’m not sure why that scene of LF in the snow.
The letter said something like “fulfill your…” and Baelish did vow to her to make things right. At first I thought it was strange she’d sign a letter to Baelish as Sansa Stark – he knows her – but I don’t think they’d make such a big deal of Sansa writing a letter to any other random lord, since Jon already mentioned they’d sent ravens.
RosanaZugey,
I will have to mention some Reddit spoilers we have got, I am not sure if you have followed them
BTW, will Ian McShane get a Curtain Call? Yeah, I know he was only in one episode, but it’s Ian McFreakingShane, and he knocked it out of the park.
So, the most obvious answer is the correct one, in your estimation? Could be, could be. I personally hope for something more than the obvious, but if that’s what I get, that’s what I get. *Sad*
In other news, we have a death pool going on at work, and I have the High Sparrow dying next week as one of my boxes. Should I be looking forward to a win next week? 😀
Nadia,
I think the reason they cut the broken man speech is because, in the books the speech primarily refers to common men who are the pawns of the high Lords who are busy playing their games. The show has not had time to really go into this aspect at all. So since we have never really seen the perspective of the common folk in Westeros, the speech might not have had the same impact on the show only watchers.
I wonder if the show runners in their mind have change Sansa’s slaying a giant in a castle made of snow from LF to Ramsay
Nadia,
In the books, LF plans to unveil Sansa’s true identity after her marriage to Harry the heir, so that they can claim the North in her name. So it looks like Sansa eventually goes north in the books too?
I don’t know that I trust Reddit spoilers. I mean, these people on Reddit have “spoilers” saying Littlefinger kills Ramsay himself in episode 10 to make it up to Sansa for leaving her with Ramsay. *Rolls eyes* Inbesides, I’ve always assumed that the shot of Sansa on the horse looking at someone with a death stare was her and Ramsay before the battle actually takes place. If she’s already on the battlefield, I don’t think she ‘rides in’ with the Vale army.
Side note: generally speaking, a lot of the things Sophie Turner has said in her interviews have happened this season. But there’s one that I’m still ‘hmmmmmmm’ about. So, after the first episode of this season (after Brienne swears her sword to Sansa) Sophie made the comment that Brienne was the “first of many” (who would swear their swords to her). Now, I don’t know about you, but I didn’t take this episode to fit that description. So, are we still waiting to see that? And do you think it will be before or after the battle?
Kasi,
I’m with you; I have a healthy dose of alarm going.
Nymeria Warrior Queen
It was like Arya was wandering around hoping to flush the Waif out. But you’d think she would have Needle with her.
Loved the Riverrun stuff but it is going to be a long week waiting for Jamie/Brienne’s reunion and finding out what GRRM intended with that cave set up.
You know someone on Youtube just pointed something out:
“I don’t think that was Arya at all. That was Jaqen pretending to be Arya. She didn’t have needle with her. She had no scratches on her face. Jaqen asked The Waif not to make Arya suffer — and she did. The Waif has failed her test”
I would like to believe this but I’m not holding my breath. How would he have her face without her death? I’d kind of like to see it play out as this: Arya is on the verge of death but manages to best The Waif and kill her. As Arya loses consciousness Jaqen shows up to heal her wounds, release her from HoBaW duties, and take The Waif’s corpse back to HoBaW for a facial treatment.
Arya has been hanging around observing a theatrical troupe (who fake death all the time). saved the actress’ life … who might help her get…. a good change of clothes (from the wardrobe dept?)… Arya walks around unarmed, isn’t trying to be inconspicuous .. flashing a lot of coin where plenty of people can see her… after the stabbing, she wanders about bleeding profusely, still where many people can see her.. Want to bet she was wearing a bladder with animal blood under her jerkin ?
Remember her hand leaving a bloody trail on a wall in the trailer?
She’s far from done.
Aryamad,
Also Jaqen is two feet taller than Arya. Changing faces doesn’t change your height and build.
RosanaZugey,
If Sophie said that, it might mean the North bending the knee to the new Queen In The North.
Where was Ghost? If there was a tim to show him, they better start. It looks like D&D truly don’t like them because if they decided to to do pointless and off screen deaths of Summer and Shaggy. Wouldn’t be surprised if Ghost is one of the casualties of battle along with Tormund, Rickon as beloved characters, in Ghost case animal. If they reveal RLJ even more so bet on his death.
Lyanna Mormont was the highlight. Such a great performance and I heard we’ll see her again later on. It makes sense as Jon, Sansa, LF must win this. Head of the House Mormont as well as the others might be at some kind of meeting. Really like Riverrun stuff and Blackfish. Somehow missing The Broken Man speech but glad to see The Hound Rory McCann back on the show and getting some revenge.
Ramsay not in 3 episodes, Tyrion in 2 and Daeny again missing. I guess episode 9 will be 30 to 35 minutes devoted to the battle and rest for others. Jon might get with Sansa some scene in the next episode as LF seems to be meeting someone and planning the battle.
RosanaZugey,
OK thanks for explaining where that came from. I really wasn’t sure and slightly puzzled. This fandom is very passionate, sometimes I underestimate it 🙂
After watching the ep twice, and contemplating the comments here, I am totally convinced that it was Jaquen playing Arya to catch the Waif at her treachery. The reactions of the Braavosi to her staggering down the street bleeding was inappropriate to the “reality” of an injured child. They practically recoiled from “Arya”–just like they did in reaction to the black “faceless man” back in season 5, “House of Black & White.”
Can’t wait to see this played out!
Ravyn,
my lod I really enjoyed it …
I mean baby mormont was awesome ..not just the usual awesome …like extremely awesome …even greater than that …I fear for her safety though …plz don’t kill her …she is my new favorite…
Jon was like whoa …what do I say now …hahaha….Davos saved them there ….
woo and glover guy was intense ….I think Davos gave up as soon as he walked in…..but I agree with Jon and Davos no point hanging around now …He needs to somehow get those men to fight together it’s extremely difficult for them to win the war …which is the way I like it ……….The show runners are playing it nicely I think. …no sansa doesn’t want littlefinger …but she wants winterfell she wants revenge. ..but she knows they are not going to defeat the Boltons with that group of uncordinated …whatever it is ..It’s not an army. ..so she has to call in littlefinger ….
she wanted to hide it …she wanted to keep littlefinger away …now I think we will see littlefinger again..He will definitely help sansa ….We also know Jon is not going to hang around winterfell even if they name him the king in the north ..Once people start listening to him he will take his army to the wall ….
Watching the episode a second time the way Maisie was directed to walk was just…off. So much so that it had to be deliberate. Why? Guess we’ll find out next week.
I know it’s realism but I don’t like the dead animal wrapped around Jon’s shoulders. It looks weird and takes me right out of the scene for a few seconds.
Little Lyanna living up to her name! The Starks should be proud. Well done!
Yes indeed! I looked twice as well.
Not in the least because battle preparations would be totally different if Davos and Jon knew about the Knights of the Vale. They risk spreading themselves too thin and losing the battle merely because Sansa is refusing to be honest with her nephew, or half-brother, whatever. If they both come out of this I can certainly see someone bringing this scheming up in a none-too-pleased fashion.
Fewer
I’m conflicted about this episode, great stuff and bad stuff. Very nice opening, it was probably a cool reveal for unsullied. Ian McShane is amazing and I’m not going to say they wasted him, nope, great actors might be busy, if they are willing to come for a couple of days on set, than why not??? I also liked a lot the Wildlings scene, cool characters, Wun Wun. Not so much the scenes with the Mormonts and Glovers… what the hell was their plan?? They expected for these houses to fight for a Snow and a Bolton?? why not push the Rickon card, the White Walkers?? Anything… I don’t know, when Jon said that they need a united North for the war to come and that with the Boltons there it’s divided…. I was expecting Lyanna to say: “than why not unite under the Boltons”?? 🙂 Honestly, that would make sense, knowing what’s coming… they are the ones starting a devastating war that will leave the North destroyed… but whatever.
As for the Volantis scene, as I said good stuff, bad stuff. Alfie Allen is such a great actor, he sells everything he’s given. Why does Yara need her brother? she didn’t before in Season 2. Why make her gay? That’s supposed to be empowering in some way?? Wasn’t it better the way Asha was? that she could have any man in her fleet, that all desired her…
Anyway, my biggest problem is with The Hound scenes. Was it a great speech in the books? Sure, but that doesn’t mean we needed to have it in the show, not really. Not to mention that if Meribald officiated a wedding as a septon…. we might get him in Season 7. That’s not what annoys me. Why is Sandor 2.0 exactly as the Sandor from previous seasons?? He think the same, acts the same… it’s just as if he took a break. And what was the point of these scenes?? is the message that revenge and violence is the answer?? That’s what it seems like. Why were all those people murdered?? Outlaws aren’t exactly mass murderers…. or were they wiped out because they believed in the Seven, and not Rhllor??? Confusing.
I also think they missed a great opportunity to connect this with the Faith. From the scenes in King’s Landing it was clear that grandpa is a villain, he threatened Olenna because she’s a woman with power?? He’s overly ambitious…. well, what if Ray had a few lines about KL? That people flock to the faith because of the war, because the nobles don’t protect them from outlaws…. something like that. It would have made the High Septon a little controversial, a little grayer.
Also theon and yara scene was really nice ….and bronn was back ..I was like yasssss when bronn showed up ….
not much to say about the hound he showed glimpses of the old hound ,, looks like he has even larger role to play then we think and was really surprised the way the episode started …
Freys are total idiots …it’ll be fun to see them die
so much to talk about in effectively a 48 minutes episode ….
…let me take some oxygen ..
qot was at her usual best ..and that smile at the end of her first scene …..was of relief more then anything .she trusts Margaery but I’m not so sure ..that cult Pope is extremely smart ..but she made the right choice to leave ….she really summed it up for cersei ….so I like this episode ??
no …..I love it ….really really love it
I am done ranking episodes it makes no sense to me anymore ….
mvp of the episode is lyanna mormont. … Ian mcshane was great but I won’t remember him being there for long …
Absolutly loved the episode!!
I know I’ll be in a minority but I liked Rays speech much better then the one in the books. Amazing acting from McShane, just amazing.
Sandor is back!! Lyanna Mormont!! Amazing episode. a 5/5 from me.
RosanaZugey,
I do not recall what Sophie said exactly, what I vaguely remember is her saying Brienne was the first of the people who Sansa would gather around her to do what she wants to do. I don’t think anybody else is swearing their swords to her, unless there is another recruitment drive, this time involving the Manderlys and they are more receptive of the Starks. But I am doubtful of this happening.
Geralt of Rivia,
That person has proven to be extremely reliable in everything he has said so far, so I assume he will be right about the coming episodes too.
ghost of winterfell,
Well in this case a lot of people will be unhappy at the end of Bastardbowl including me.
Vlad,
Jon mentioned to Mormonts Rickon and White Walkers along with Davos. Their response was unclear but she pledged their House to them so she might believe in it at least slightly. Thanks to Jeor Mormont name being said. Glover scene with them was more about Wildling issue and Robb’s mistake. It’s not like people will start to believe there are White Walkers and marching on the Wall. Wildlings are more of a issues than the Boltons because while Boltons bertrayd them, Robb had a hand in it too.
Sansa actually has very little idea of exactly what LF has done to her family its only really the audience who are wholly aware. But she’ll find out soon enough I suspect and it’ll be the end of LF.
She doesn’t trust Davos for reasons she explained (pretty well IMO and she made a damn good point) and also because, ya know, she kinda doesn’t trust anyone after the horrors that have happened to her- can’t say I blame the girl for that.
She’s clearly concerned about the lack of men they have, and expressed these concerns and is seeking the aid of the Vale by asking LF for help because she has no other choice. Not because she’s trying to drive wedges or betray her brother- why on earth would she want to do that when their very survival is at stake? She’s trying to save the day as best she can, I admit I don’t really understand the secrecy (yet) but I’m sure there’ll be a reason for this that we aren’t yet aware of. It’s clearly a very bitter pill for her to swallow.
Clob,
I’m still very confused abut the Arya scene. Her behaviour is a little different, as is the hair and she isn’t carrying Needle, so in that sense I would suspect a switcheroo. BUT… why would anyone change faces with Arya to be killed like that? And would an innocent victim and an untrained person be capable of back-headbutting the Waif and escaping by jumping in the water?
The FM don’t know that Arya has Needle, so it would explain a patsy to take the fall… and where the Hell would the real Arya leave Needle in storage. And most importantly: WHY? The last time we saw her in the previous episode, she even took Needle with her to bed. She wouldn’t leave Needle behind, especially in a strange and potentially hostile city as Braavos.
About the wounds: one slash (we never saw the damage / cut and how deep it was) and two bad, deep penetrating abdominal wounds. The last one, with the twist, is very grave indeed. It was a small blade though, compared to the knife that Ellaria used to stab Doran. (although it doesn’t seem to make sense that a big, muscular guy like Areo Hotah would go down without a fight from one stab wound and here a tiny girl would survive three wounds). Abdominal wounds bleed heavily and it can take a person a long time to die from. The Waif’s desire to draw out Arya’s death might just be the thing that saves her. Blood loss and shock would quickly do her in, though. As would infection from polluted water (the canals of Braavos aren’t probably the cleanest). They kinda overdid it with these wounds, because they would – realistically – be fatal, barring a Deus ex Machina. But hey, if Sandor Clegane can survive his wounds…
So, the first thing I’m thinking of is: bad writing / plot hole (unlikely, but it has to be taken into consideration *cough* Dorne *cough*). Otherwise, ther are two options: it was the real Arya or a decoy / patsy.
Either a Arya that is very naive and lets herself get stabbed without her own beloved weapon present, or it was someone else (“no one”). Along those last lines: maybe Jacqen could be behind it, perhaps to find out if The Waif would try to make Arya suffer – as a test?) I have thought about the possibility that someone requesting The Gift at the House of Black and White was asked to stand in for Arya. But wouldn’t that person just collapse and be satisfied with death? Every scenario seems unconvincing and unrealistic. Survival for Arya seems assured anyway. Her entire plotline would be quite pointless if she would die now.
There is more than meets the eye here and that in itself is exciting. We’ll probably find out right away next week, since the episode is called No One and we got a glimpse of a startled looking Waif.
“I’m stoked for the show to have Yara be interested in women. It’s not important to the plot but I appreciate it.”
AV Club’s unsullied reviewer thinks Daenerys might marry Yara…
Cersei wanted Jaime out of King’s Landing for a reason.
Margeary wanted Olenna out of King’s Landing for a reason.
Both women have a plan.
I would love to see them working together in secret against the High Sparrow, now that they have a common enemy.
Maybe Margeary will accept the offer Olenna declined.
The broken man speech is far too long for a 51 minute episode, the audience would get border very quickly, and also it had little relevance to the Ray character (remember this guy isn’t Septon Meribald) or indeed show Sandor. So I can totally see why they left it out.
Just a friendly reminder that the Hound hasn’t ”repented/changed” in the books.
We simply see him digging graves, just like we see him here helping the people build the sept.
We have no idea what he thinks.
Apollo,
This. It would have been a 6 minutes boring scene.
Not to say the actually ”showed” the broken man. The BWB.
This!
Sword of the Morning,
Weirdly, I agree. Though I’ll put it at 50%, not 75%. With all the unlikely characters returning, and many of them from the dead, it seems like David and Dan aren’t shying away from resurrection. Maybe their whole idea was to wait for Jon to have his special moment and then open the floodgates with Benjen, the Hound, the Mountain, and Stoneheart.
Resurrection really is a theme this season. We’re getting so many cameos, it’s crazy. There’s one that was incredibly disappointing though, and that’s Osha and Rickon. Literally nothing came out of them. Osha was simply brought back to be killed, and I’m afraid Rickon may also have.
If they’d have given her a couple more scenes and then have Ramsay kill her, and give her a scene with Rickon as well, and Ramsay a scene with Rickon (no torture!) I would be 100% on board.
Apollo,
Well said. You took the words right out of my keyboard.
I have a bad feeling that Margaery will die in the big wildfire explosion which Cersei has planned to destroy the Sparrows. Foreshadowing from Olenna to Cersei: “You can’t kill them all yourself.” Oh but she can, Queen of Thorns, she really can…..I wonder if Tommen will also die, at the hands of his mother, either by accident or because Cersei has lost the plot and regards his death as inevitable anyway? That would certainly be enough to turn Jamie against her forever….
(PS: This is total speculation, of course; hopefully Margaery has a plan which gets her out of KL, but I’m convinced that big explosion we saw in Bran’s vision will turn out to be a scene they already filmed; they tend to reuse shots in visions, not make new ones).
My baby’s back! Fun episode all around. I didn’t even realise how much I’d missed Sandor and Rory. He’s still as gorgeous as ever! Also, SanSan shippers rejoice! We had a Sansa and a Sandor scene back to back, that has to mean something, right?
Yeah, the Braavos storyline was (possibly) full of plot holes. What else is new? I don’t think much thought has been put into Arya’s storyline these past two seasons. Such a shame, loads of great potential wasted there. We could’ve had an epic Jaqen-Arya mentor/protégé relationship, but instead we got two adolescent girls bickering about, well, we don’t know yet why the Waif hates her so much. I hope Arya tricked the Waif but I wouldn’t be surprised if she didn’t.
In my opinion Arya being stabbed isn’t Arya. It’s actually Jaqen acting like arya, as long as he knew and basically gave permission to the waif to kill arya. This assassination-for-personal-issues isn’t typical Faceless Men lifestyle and Jaqen wanted to see if the waif would kill arya. And on top of that the waif did let her suffer despite his orders and even did the attack sloppy and on full site. The waif is going to pay for that and we all know how FM solve their issues.
It is not about being greedy, it is about the storytelling. I like both Jon and Sansa as characters, but it seems like the show is struggling a bit with managing so many bigger characters together. I am not just referring to Jon and Sansa I am also referring to Melisandre and Davos. The balance was a bit better in this episode. But it feels like they are taking a long time for Jon’s character to move forward.
Perhaps it could have been better for the development of both characters if their stories were kept apart.
As I said for me this goes back to storytelling. Jon being stabbed to death was at the end of the season and it was the big event and climax of the season. (The same could perhaps be said of Cersei).
He has now been resurrected for 5 episodes, and his death has served no purpose yet.
As things stand now his death at the end of season 5 was only a moment that was added for shock value. (It is the same thing with Cersei as well, we haven’t seen any revenge, she hasn’t done anything against the faith, and her trial has seemingly be dragged to out to episode 10).
I don’t expect Jon to suddenly become Azor Ahai and have a complete personality change, but there should at least be something he could use from that situation or that experience, and so far I haven’t seen anything yet.
I think we will see the Northern Lords such as Lord Manderly in episode 10, after the battle.
Overall it was an enjoyable episode, it was obviously a setup episode.
I must admit I have always been completely indifferent to the Hound. But his scenes at the start was nice, it added a different atmosphere to the usual somber Westeros. Of course it did not last very long. It was fun to see Lem Lemoncloak.
Arya’s scenes were strange, there is obviously some mummery involved here. I do wonder if some of her scenes isn’t perhaps out of sequence.
Last week we saw Arya retrieve needle, and then she went into a small room and waited mostly likely for the Waif. This week we saw Arya paying for a cabin upon a ship bound for Westeros.
I wonder if the small room that we saw Arya in last week, isn’t actually the cabin aboard the ship. That means that the scene in this episode where she paid the Captain of the ship was actually earlier than last week’s scenes.
I don’t really know what the purpose for this would be but it seem plausible.
Perhaps the waif stole Arya’s face, she might have been jealous of the fact that Arya is a highborn Lady. Perhaps she wanted to reclaim or steal Arya’s life.
Or she wanted to assassinate someone by using Arya’s face, iow someone Arya knew. So when “Arya” was stabbed on the bride it wasn’t really her, and Arya was really the old lady.
I guess we’ll see next week what truly happened.
It was good to see the Blackfish and Bronn again, both of them lived up to expectation.
Things are certainly one big struggle up in the North. I really get the sense that Jon is bone weary. I get the feeling that he knew exactly what type of reception and answers they would receive from the bannermen. He is afterall a bastard, he is used to Lords talking down to him or looking down on him.
But he went along and he goes through all of the motions, because someone has to do it. He seems resigned to his fate, at the moment it is almost impossible for the Stark forces to win. And if they do win things will only become more difficult with the approaching White Walkers. For Jon right now it must all seem like an impossible task, and there really isn’t anyone else who is going to step up and do something about the situation. It all seems like a lot of responsibility and an unthankful job.
Sansa obviously doesn’t want anything to do with Littlefinger, she never wanted to use his offer of the Vale army. But after she had seen the amount of troops they were able to muster, she knows she is going to need Littlefinger’s help.
I do understand her motivation of not wanting to get involved with Littlefinger. But I don’t think it is a good idea that she is lying to Jon.
I am not sure it is really a good idea to antagonise Cersei that much, that is exactly what Margaery did before Cersei decided to take revenge on her by using the High Sparrow. At least Margaery is doing a good job of acting as a newly religious convert.
Lyanna Mormont was fierce, but to me it seems a bit over the top. I am not sure a 10 year old would act like that.
Practically every actor did a phenomenal job during this episode.
I’m still very confused abut the Arya scene. Her behaviour is a little different, as is the hair and she isn’t carrying Needle, so in that sense I would suspect a switcheroo. BUT… why would anyone change faces with Arya to be killed like that? And would an innocent victim and an untrained person be capable of back-headbutting the Waif and escaping by jumping in the water? That’s fishy as well.
The FM don’t know that Arya has Needle, so it would explain a patsy to take the fall… and where the hell would the real Arya leave Needle in storage? And most importantly: WHY? The last time we saw her in the previous episode, she even took Needle with her to bed. She wouldn’t leave Needle behind, especially in a strange and potentially hostile city as Braavos.
About the wounds: one slash (we never saw the damage / cut and how deep it was) and two bad, deep penetrating abdominal wounds. The last one, with the twist, is very grave indeed. It was a small blade though, compared to the knife that Ellaria used to stab Doran. (although it doesn’t seem to make sense that a big, muscular guy like Areo Hotah would go down without a fight from one stab wound and here a tiny girl would survive three wounds). Abdominal wounds bleed heavily and it can take a person a long time to die from. The Waif’s desire to draw out Arya’s death might just be the thing that saves her. Blood loss and shock would quickly do her in, though. As would infection from polluted water (the canals of Braavos aren’t probably the cleanest). They kinda overdid it with these wounds, because they would – realistically – be fatal, barring a Deus ex Machina. But hey, if Sandor Clegane can survive his wounds…
So, the first thing I’m thinking of is: bad writing / plot hole (unlikely, but it has to be taken into consideration *cough* Dorne *cough*). Otherwise, ther are two options: it was the real Arya or a decoy / patsy.
Either a Arya that is very naive and lets herself get stabbed without her own beloved weapon present, or it was someone else (“no one”). Along those last lines: maybe Jacqen could be behind it, perhaps to find out if The Waif would try to make Arya suffer – as a test?) I have thought about the possibility that someone requesting The Gift at the House of Black and White was asked to stand in for Arya. But wouldn’t that person just collapse and be satisfied with death? Every scenario seems unconvincing and unrealistic. Survival for Arya seems assured anyway. Her entire plotline would be quite pointless if she would die now.
There is more than meets the eye here and that in itself is exciting. We’ll probably find out right away next week, since the episode is called No One and we got a glimpse of a startled looking Waif.
I loved this episode, and one thing in particular really stood out for me… I think this might be the first episode all season without a fart joke! Anyway, I’m bored, and have time to kill, so a few thoughts.
1) I’m not totally on board the the BwB simply slaughtering everyone just because. I know they were devolving into a wayward band of outlaws, but this looked more like a party led by Ser Gregor than it did a few thieves with no reason to kill 30 people who weren’t fighting back.
2) Lyanna is awesome, and Bear Island was freaking gorgeous.
3) Jaimie gold-hand bitch slapping the Frey was wonderful.
… and I can’t remember enough about the rest of the episode. I was partially saddened by the trailer for next week, though. Jaimie’s arc in the books is wonderful, I looked at my friend with disgust when he told me that Jaimie was becoming one of his favorite characters, and then I eventually figured out why. One of the lines in the trailer was him saying something like “I love Cersei…” and that is just depressing. He can’t move forward as a character so long as he’s still clinging to her, and the very fact that he is, makes him petty and hard to care about.
dwm,
Oh come on….
I’m catching up….being the UK meant a early rise to watch the show before work.
Thanks to someone on another site for screencapping, Sansa’s letter is 100% to LF, in case there’s any doubt.
http://i.imgur.com/TQoCXYn.png
Henry Gordon,
It didn’t really fit yet in this episode, doesn’t mean it is not still coming though. Maybe on Brienne’s travels 🙂
Henry Gordon,
It wasn’t relevant.
RosanaZugey,
Can see the Blackfish swearing his sword to her
Saw Brienne’s interaction with Jamie in the preview. Just a thought: Will Brienne convince Jamie to send the Lannister army to Winterfell to help Sansa and fulfill his oath the Lady Catelyn?
Redxgod,
Or perhaps convince him to let the Tully’s go North.
His death did serve the purpose that he left the Night’s Watch, which he would have been too honourable to do otherwise.
Same here.
I think the producers finally realized the right formula for the epic episode 9 battles. Do other storylines / set-up in the first half, do the big battle in the second half.
Dedicating the entire episode to Blackwater in S2 worked because it was the cumulation of multiple storylines (Sansa, Cersei/Joffrey, Tyrion, and Davos/Stannis). Plus there were some secondary characters as well (Bronn & Hound, for example.) And even then they still needed to pad it a little bit.
They tried to duplicate that in S4 with “Watchers on the Wall” and that fell a bit flat because at that point the Wall had only one major character (Jon) and one secondary character (Sam). We didn’t get enough insight in the wildings’ perspective to make that battle truly well-rounded.
They then did the half set up, half battle formula for Hardhome, and that is widely considered to be the best episode of GoT up to this point. The other “best episode ever!” episode, the one featuring the Red Wedding, also had this same formula (although it was more 2/3 set-up, 1/3 wedding).
That formula, I think, works better than dedicating entire episodes to one single event. So that’s what they’re going to do with Battle of the Bastards. The first half will be set-up and the second half will be the battle itself.
I’m guessing since they had Hound return and spent a lot of time on him then he probably is Azor Ahai, will be acquiring Valaryian steel sword and helps fight WW after going in and sweeping Sansa off her feet after she settles in the Vale and gets all kind of verbal abuse from that petulant Robin, Hound will make her forget her desire to be a lady in a castle, they’ll run off together and I think she’s probably been made sterile by Ramsay’s abuse so they’ll just adopt some of the orphans that are left after the wars. It will beauty and the beast story there. Joking.
Okay, I’m probably in the minority but one of the highlight (among many) of this episode was the Theon / Yara scene for me !
Great acting, solid dialogue (coherent with the characters), great dynamics, fun and sad at the same time !
Well done for that ! I can see why some might see it as superfluous but I really think it was a very strong scene !
Arkash,
Same! Loved that scene. It had everything from humour to drama.
The thing I loved about Lyanna Mormont was that as soon as Sansa tried to praise her by saying she would be a beauty, she was having none of it. Screw being pretty, my mother was a warrior! And her ‘talk to the hand’ when her maester tried to advise her again. I thought it was great – they showed that such a young lady would have influential advisors (it eminded me of Bran being ating lord at Winterfell with Maester Luwin by his side) but they still made her tough like a Mormont woman would be.
I dont quite agree with that.
Lyanna Mormont is the only queen I mean to bend my knee to.
They spent a lot of time on those scenes with The Hound. I hope the payoff is good enough to justify it.
Too bad we didn’t get a scene with House Hornwood.
I want The Blackfish to adopt me.
Add the fact that Sue the Fury has done a great job of shooting down various fake spoilers that were floating around before the season started and wouldn’t / couldn’t shoot this particular set of spoilers down. That’s when I realized the Reddit guy was most likely legit.
I feel for Sue the Fury. It can’t be easy, being essentially the “face” of GoT spoilers. She’s basically responsible for separating the chaff from the wheat in regards to GoT spoilers. I see why she shoots down fake spoilers. As we’ve seen here, people can and do become outraged about events based solely on their speculation without waiting for the events to play themselves out (see; Sansa is betraying Jon Snow and wants to seize Winterfell for herself!!!). So whenever people make up spoilers deliberately designed to piss off GoT fans, I see why Sue wants to put those flames out before they spread.
But when legit spoilers come out that upsets the fandom, such as that Reddit spoiler, and Sue doesn’t deny it … Uh oh! That’s pretty much as good as actually confirming it.
I don’t envy Sue her job.
Jack Bauer 24,
Edmure will. In the preview you see he has a scene with Jaime in the tent (likely an adaptation of the scene from AFFC).
As for the episode, I really liked it, overall, but the most exciting thing was the preview for the next episode, which shows that we didn’t get any real pay-offs. Not really a problem, but we got used to it this season. Other thoughts:
– I’m so, so happy they included Riverrun and I loved everything about it: Blackfish vs Jaime (Clive Russell is so great!!!), Bronn, Jaime slapping Walder. The Tully’s really got to come back in a big way. Perfect. Looking forward to see it continue next week.
– King’s Landing was excellent again, after last week. Margaery and Natalie Dormer are both great actresses. Happy to see Olenna live another day, and in the case of the show…another season. It’s telling they wanted her out of the city before whatever’s going to happen, and they have a plan for her.
– Braavos was nice, visually, but storywise I think it’s quite empty, and they had better combined it with what’s going on in the next episode. Now it just feels a little weird.
– As for the North, I’m never a fan of recruitment-like scenes. They’re always kind of predictably structured, which showed in the Wildling & Glover scenes. However, the scene with Lyanna Mormont was fantastic.
– I liked the Hound story, but I must admit I was too much focused on my anticipation for the speech that I have to watch it again to really judge this part. Right now I feel it was a little too isolated, and should’ve been connected to Brienne’s story. If this scene takes place in the Vale, that wouldn’t have been possible, though.
The next 3 episodes are going to be EPIC!!
Houndor!!
Boudica,
“In the books” followed by a personal opinion.
Well, in the show, he made it very clear to Stannis he cannot leave the NW.
I agree.
So, when Liam Cunningham talked about a few people mucking up the parlay at Bear Island, in an interview, he was talking of Jon and Sansa, and not some random northerners as we were all guessing, lol.
Geralt of Rivia,
There is one more episode after that. ?
Other than Jon Snow, none of them were resurrected.
The Mountain was gravely wounded, but healed by Qyburn last season. The show skipped that whole “send the Mountain’s skull to Dorne” section.
Benjen disappeared and was presumed dead, but there was always the (slim) possibility he was out there alive doing his thing.
The Hound was left for dead, but we never saw him actually die.
Jon Snow is the only legit resurrection (other than Bedric and his 6 resurrections) that D&D has done on the show.
Josh L,
Here, here. I just want to clarify that what you referred to was not purely made up speculation but was based on cast interview and DD inside the episode comment. That said, it doesn’t take much for us to run with something. That is part of the fun of the conversation surrounding the program though 🙂
I actually disliked the way that Yara ‘was interested in women’ but acted ‘like a man’ in relation to that interest. I read that Theon stated that Ironborn women have “men’s appetites” with regard to sex, but why cater to the male gaze to demonstrate this appetite and why a sex slave and not an equal partner? Just when the feminist in me was defending the show and cheering on the kick arse women, D & D go and prove that the sex scenes and nudity are still after 6 seasons only there to titilate the fellas. The warty penis a few weeks a go was proof of that.
– Loved seeing the Hound return. Don’t see “Cleganebowl” happening anytime soon though.
– Jon and Sansa are definitely not great at negotiations and the politics of all of this. I don’t think either of them are fit for a crown.
– Jon continues to brood. I thought he’d return from death with some sort of spark or fire but he’s just kind of fizzling about. This is the guy who is supposed to lead the living against the dead? Something has to snap in him before that happens.
– The tough love on Theon was hard to watch, he’s just so broken, but I saw a shade of old Theon there.
– Cersei is going to kill a lot of people. She’s about to crack.
– The Arya scene confused me. There’s something else going on there but I don’t have the energy to figure it out. Hopefully we get the resolution of this whole FM mess next episode.
– Overall the episode wasn’t my favorite. Definitely my least favorite of the season. I know it’s a set-up episode, but so late in the season I just wanted more.
Previews:
– I’ve been waiting for Cersei to choose violence!
– Jaime is back to old Jaime, isn’t he.
– Dany/Drogon landing on top of the pyramid? What else could make the top of the giant pyramid shake like that?
– Thank god the next one is a long episode.
Akash Singh,
Why will next week’s “No One” be a blood bath? All of that blood Arya drips around Braavos?
Hello boys and grills, i dont think it was
Hornwood is in the episode, you can see their sigil in the Stark army camp before Sansa writes her letter. Plus I believe they are listed among the troops.
Kellie is Coming,
They are basically pirates! Have you seen any Husband/wife dynamic on the iron islands? People should stop trying to putting modern ‘norms’ on and a medieval fantasy story.
MG,
Going by next week preview it looks like Cercei is going to Tommen and that’s where we saw them at season trailer in what looked like a face off. I think the boy is truly brainwashed and mom has already written him off due to her knowing he will die anyways believing in the prophecy now, on top of the loss of her most precious children has hardened her heart, the one good thing about her, love for her kids is stripped away.
Also, i need help from you, even from Sue, please.. where do i find how much episodes characters have and how much episodes last ? PLS :/
Kellie is Coming,
I’m not going to argue you…but..
How was the warty dick supposed to ”titilate us fellas”?
FlyingMonkeySoup,
The Ramsey/Hornwood subplot doesn’t exist in the show.
redxgod,
Agreed.
Does it? I noticed that the Waif’s hands were spotted and old in last night’s scene, so the hands change. Or perhaps that’s because the Waif didn’t change faces IRL.
IN preview of 8 they are on the water rowing and it looks like Brienne is seeing… a dragon?? What else could it be. OH and Arya is apparently death proof ya’ll. Fatal stab wounds don’t slow her down and she can leap off tall buildings, hit concrete and apparently walk it off.
I didn’t read the comments yet so if someone else already said it, it’s a case of great minds, not plagiarism: I’m calling it right now; Arya knew that the FM would come for her when she failed to kill Lady Crane. Arya *already* went to Lady Crane for help. She told her some version of “I was sent to kill you but I didn’t, because of that the people I used to work for will send someone to kill me & I need to make them think they succeeded.” Lady Crane hooks her up with some props & clothes. Arya knew FM would figure she’s headed home so they were looking for her at the docks. She knows the waif is following her so she makes a public scene out in the open and then walks away. She purposefully stopped on the bridge and she let the waif approach. She allowed the waif to attack her & left her lower torso undefended because that’s where the layers of boiled leather & bags of blood were. After the waif stabbed her up a bit Arya knocked her back and used her escape route – the canal. When she surfaced she knew the waif would come find her to take her face so she kept up the farce and staggered thru the streets back to wherever she has Needle stashed. When the waif finds the trail she’ll follow it and assuming that Arya is dead, or almost dead she’ll have her guard down a bit & that’s when Arya will attack her full-on.
That’s my theory & I’m sticking to it until at least next Sunday.
ygritte,
Dragon in Riverlands? Tyrion and dragon that is something else.
RosanaZugey,
And what is stopping you or me or any other fan of her from enjoying this amazing season for Sansa? A few haters on comment section of a fan site? Do you somehow believe that these few people here – or in other fan sites – actually represent a large portion of fandom when it comes to say Sansa for example? NO. People are absolutely enjoying her storyline this season and her character development, just browse through social media and see it for yourself.
Now let’s have our fingers crossed that at the of this season she will make both of us – and rest of her true fans – proud.
Daughter of Winter,
I always find the Twitter recap to reflect the general viewers opinion/feeling best.
nvm
El-Bobbie,
Is Daeny better at negotiations? No and neither is Jon or Sansa but they’re learning. This is where Tyrion comes in or Davos. She would most likely start to threaten people if she was in Jon’s or Sansa’s shoes. As to whether Jon is fit to lead living against the dead. What makes you think he can’t do it or is it because of Daeny? It’s not like one person will lead them or if will it will be dissapointing. It has to be a team job, everyone coming together with couple of characters taking on leading roles.
You want him to unleash his dragon side? Hope not or at least not now. Something will happen that will change him a bit and it could be Rickon/Ramsay. But I like this contrast of Jon and Daeny. One is passionate, impulsive and other one exact opposite more passive, pragmatic, cold. Just like Daeny is all about titles and nothing bad about it, and Jon well he doesn’t care about that. I can so see them clash over how to approach white walkers and all that. They’re good people in the heart, want good things but their approach is different. This is where Tyrion will probably play a key art.
It can’t be Arya if she will jump like that in next episode. Maybe she stole one of the faces from tha Hall.
No saying it does. The question was asked if Hornwood was in the episode because that is who Sansa could have been writing to. Darkrobin is said no. I was pointing out, that YES, Hornwood was there, their banners were at the camp and they were specifically mentioned.
Okay someone please help me out, has that woman who’s face the Waif used appeared before because she seemed so familiar?
FlyingMonkeySoup,
Replied to the wrong person sorry!!
I wanted to reply to Darkrobin too!
Geralt of Rivia,
Well the other 2 were unchained. Possibly escaped, how far is it from Mereen to RL?
Another cracking episode!
The Hound is about to f*** up some corrupted BWB members. Loved his conversations with Ian’s character. I knew he’d end up dead, a catalyst for the Hound to be reawakened, but good God let the man live for 1 more episode.
Also loved the whole Northern plot, both Sansa and Jon getting some rude awakenings and reality checks. Glover and Sansa was intense and brilliant!
As for her letter, whilst her plot is tied with LF, all is not is as it seems. The way signed she it, I’m veering towards Robin or Royce, or even Manderly. Kudos to her for not listening to Jon.
Blackfish is a beast, I wil not be a happy bunny if he perishes! I pumped my fist when he reminded Jamie of his vows to Catelyn, let him know he’s a flop.
As for Arya’s stabbing, I’m not sure it’s even her. I’ve enjoyed her arc this season as a little side-plot, but I’m just not as invested. What I did love was how close she resembled Ned and the shot of the Titan was breathtaking.
Finally, the QoT is just precious. Her quips at Unella and Cersei were just so cutting, I was gagging. Highlight for me.
Well done Brian Cogman, you did good.
For everyone complaining how this ep was another set-up non-event ep, the last 3 episodes won’t disappoint. I feel it in my bones, the conclusion of this season will leave us all breathless.
Mihnea,
Agreed
Olenna told her, she better get out of King’s Landing. Cersei said no, because of Tommen. Yes, she believes in the prophecy but Tommen is the only person in the world she still has (Jaime too but he is away). She is not leaving him. Yes, he was brainwashed but I don’t think she gave up on him.
Also, if Margeary didn’t give Olenna the piece of paper, Olenna would have stayed there too for her grandchildren. Actually, Olenna had said the same thing to Margeary as Cersei said to Olenna.
As for the preview. Yes, most probably Cersei is going to the throne room but I don’t think it will be a face off. In the trailer I thought that it was edited in a way as to give the impression she was coming in while he was leaving. It will be interesting.
Also, she is yet to be charged officially. She also didn’t demand trial by combat yet.
It was out of character for Davos to say Fck sakes about the guys arguing. Also why exactly is Sansa hatin’ on the man?
I haven’t read the books but seen some comments where people were expecting a speech. I think even without the speech, ive heard from show watchers only that the scenes with the hound were too much/too long, and could have done with out some of them
(I loved every second)
So they had to adjust.
____
Re: Arya – I am so confused. Not even sure how to speculate.
____
Sansa writing to LF – 150% – and i’m so annoyed. LOL
____
I have other comments but I have to say, wow, at the cinematography in this episode. We saw some amazing views and even my sister was seeing she is loving all these new images of places we are saying and they were just gorgeously made. I also loved the episode so much, and the writing and direction were superb.
ghost of winterfell,
Regarding the other houses:
Boyce is “a callow young nobleman in his 20’s who has been thrust into a position of power before he is ready”, while Fletcher “has a stirring speech during which he unexpectedly shifts political allegiances”. Particularly in the latter case, I really don’t see what the point of the character would be after the battle. With the Boltons already beaten there’s not much in the way unexpected shifts of allegiance to be made. And Manderly has now been brought up several times in the show.
ygritte,
Me too 🙁
CC,
And then told Jamie that little finger killed Joffery.
Arkash,
I didn’t mention it but I it was great seeing Yara ignite Theon again, I concur!
Sean C.,
Agreed.
RG,
Love every thing you said (related to the show haven’t read the books)
FlyingMonkeySoup,
I was wrong. Missed that part of the conversation. Sorry.
Hmm it was easily my least favorite episode. I do think that I enjoy episodes less when I participate in specultion and discussion which I did a lot this week. I’ll be too busy anyway to do much this week so I’ll probably enjoy next week more.
Good:
Lyanna f**ing Mormont. Everything I ever wanted except a Jorah mention (but it’s ok).
Margaery being a Baws. I was literally saying I hate you I hate you I hate you please die while to the HS in their scene. UGHH.
Ollenna: What are you doing to do kill all of them?
Cersei’s face: That’s a yup.
Yara and Theon: Aww… they were adorable in their Ironborn way and YES Make a pact with that Dragon Queen! Do eeet! On a side note, Yara’s voice was extremely sexy this episode. O_o
Meh:
Hound / Brother Ray. The Hound is an interesting character so glad to have him back. I never ever once understood why people care about some random Septon Brienne meets in her rambling chapters. I found Brother Ray and Meribald both very forgettable. Would rather have had “Hound ex Machina” where he shows up somewhere as a complete surprise. After all none of these other characters matter.
Jaime / Blackfish: Was really hoping for Brienne. Without her it was a direct book adaptation which I’m so over. This season is supposed to be new and I felt like we were going backwards. Based on the preview (!!!) I won’t be disappointed next week, but this definitely means there’s no time for Brienne to help Sansa & Jon, which makes me sad. Jaime was super hot which helped me cope… 🙂
Grr:
The one thing I hate in TV is when people act stupidly or hatefully for no reason other than to increase “dramatic tension”. This is one of the reasons I never got into the walking dead and why I stopped watching LOST. That happened with both Arya and Sansa this episode and I thought the show was better than this bullsh*t. There was no reason for Arya to be UNARMED and out in the OPEN and being cool with Randos approaching her. And there was literally no reason for Sansa not to let Jon know that she has sent a letter to the Vale and plenty that she should (like, preparing their military strategy ya know?). I get that she’s ashamed she has to turn to LF but even so she can say that Robyn Arryn is coming, and not even mention Baelish.
Sean C.,
I totally forgot about this. Would be brill to see Sansa rally the rest by herself.
Also curious as to when we’ll see RW 2.0? Does it even exist?
Sean C.,
Yes, that’s what I had thought too,
. From watching the preview for episode 8, however, it seems like there will be no North in the next episode. Based on the previews I have seen so far, they normally cover all the storylines that are set to appear in that particular episode, so maybe we won’t have any scenes from the North in next ep?
Is it possible for that scene to happen in ep 9 just before battle starts?
Off topic
Watched me before you and just loved it …well deserved hit and venture for emilia finally .
Knew the ending but it still hit me like it did when I read the books ..
Emilia was so lovely throughout the movie and she lit up the screen everytime she smiled and something we dont get to see in GOT .
Those eyebrows deserve some awards IMO
Sam did a good job as well.their chemistry was perfect.
Its good to see charles dance and neville longbottom acting with emilia as well..
Apparently its doing well in US and has been rated A at cinemascore as well and it ended up 3rd place behind ninja turtles and x men based on box office mojo and looks like it is set to become blockbuster .
Very glad for emilia
tkk,
Oddly, that ‘kind old woman’ reminded me of Pyat Pree:
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/3/30/Pyat_profile.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/200?cb=20130111185615
Tommen = the little brother who will inadvertently lead to Cersei’s demise
Nadia,
Though I agree on some things. I think she will emerge as queen in the north at the end of the season. My prediction is that rickon will die
So I think her story IS in Winterfell
That was my instinct as well. Those wounds do not look survivable, and the Waif knows what she is doing and wouldn’t have it any other way. Is Arya playing a game of faces? Perhaps with the young actress who put the hit on Lady Crane? Tricking the Waif into killing the person who hired the FM would be a sweet form of justice, and buy the real Arya some time.
The Arya we saw seemed utterly unconcerned with hiding and didn’t react as a stranger approached. It is all but certain it is some sort of deception.
Shaz,
Will all the Turrells and sparrows be dead by the end of the season? I got the feeling Cersies gonna kill everyone who thinks they got one over her or even smiled slightly at her fall from grace.
Chad Brick,
I think Ayas bags of coins saved her. She’ll be in a bad way but the wounds aren’t as deep say they appear.
Nymeria,
This is what I considered at first, but couldn’t come up with any reason why she’d do the wandering through the streets thing. Your idea is interesting, but wouldn’t it be much better to have Needle somewhere nearby? Seems like a dumb plan. Also how would she know that the Waif wouldn’t cut her throat or her femoral artery? Or poison her? Plenty of things that the “fake blood” plan couldn’t account for.
This. It is pretty inconceivable that Arya would be so overt at the docks and stand there like a lemon on that bridge for all to see when she knows she is a target. I give the writers a lot of latitude in my enjoyment of the show and – for now – I trust they have something up their sleeve.
I wonder if we will see one of those back in time montages with dialogue over it to explain what and how it happened.
Consider that as either a plot hole or a clue.
Sean C.,
Sean C.,
rallying those two on her own??? man that would be frickin BRILLIANT.
Preview didn’t show Sansa or Jon, should i start being worry for their appearance next episode? It would be utterly disappointing if they omit them in the episode before battle. No that can’t be right at all.
Well you surely cant deny that since the hanging of the mutineers Jon really became a secondary character this season, they focus way too much on Sansa because feminism rules it seems. I just hope that we will have a main character Jon during the Bastardbowl episode. If not, then where was the point in resurrecting him.
If faking the injuries is the way they go it’s a cheapass trick. There’s no way Arya could know the Waif would stab her right in the belly.
The previews don’t always cover everything in a given episode. But yes, it’s also possible that they’re super-sizing the North in episode 9 and we’ll see all that stuff then.
And for the record, as the one of this site’s Chief Purists, I’d like to say that for the third week in a row we’ve had an episode I thoroughly enjoyed and for which I have no complaints that rise above the nitpick or very mild disappointment level.
Oh, I can deny it. There’s absolutely no evidence that Sansa is overshadowing Jon in any way this season, except in the imaginations of weirdos.
Epi 1 & 2: Jon is dead and yet is the center of the action at the wall. Meanwhile Sansa has a big scene in epi 2 and a little one in epi 3 where she decides she needs Jon’s help (so it’s about Jon too).
Epi 3: the entire thing is about Jon.
Epi 4: Sansa and Jon are exactly equal in what they do in this episode. Primarily it was about how they are both very happy to see each other.
Epi 5: This episode was about Littlefinger coming to the North and since Jon doesn’t even know Littlefinger, Sansa had more to do. Because anything else wouldn’t make narrative sense. However, both of them shone at the dinner/pink letter scene. I loved Jon’s reluctance to say the nasty stuff in the letter out of consideration for Sansa’s feelings, and Sansa’s refusal to look away after what she’s been through.
Epi 6: Neither character was in this episode
Epi 7: Jon was literally front and center in every scene, and led the negotiations in all cases. Interesting choice since Sansa’s the trueborn but I’m sure it was agreed to by all involved as the best strategy.
So apparently unless the dude is front and center and totally overshadows the lady in every single scene of every single episode, “feminism rules”. Well ok. I guess I have no problem with feminism ruling then, if it means that men and women take turns being front and center.
Ravyn,
two page speech in script form is not very long – probably 20% of an entire scene may be even less.
I agree. Especially with a trained assassin like the Waif, who would know if she hit a bag of coins or a bladder of blood, etc. Those wounds are real. It is a question of who is bearing them.
As for House Stark being dead, I think the quote from the Iron Islands is apropos “That which is dead can never die.” The key player in Westeros is Sansa. In “The Broken Man” she was rebuked for being female, for being married multiple times and pretty much for not being male, all by a little girl. The obvious play is for Sansa to as Littlefinger for help, but what if she is luring Ramsey into an ambush? Arya’s plot line is heating up leading to a cliffhanger for Episode 10, I suppose. As for Sister Unella, anybody betting on who will take her out? Cersei or Margeary? Or will these two bond over their shared enemy and their mutual need to control Tommen? Oh, one more thing: Go Yara! Grrls Rule!
I’ll be honest- I don’t like Sansa’s arrogance and superiority complex one bit. This might be an exaggeration for some but some of her dialogues in recent episodes remind me of book Cersei, not a good thing. And who does she think she’s kidding making fun of Stannis, Davos et al? It is thanks to the efforts of Jon, Davos and Melisandre that she’s even got a 2500 strong army to fight her battle!
The story this year is about making implausible alliances. It would be much more in keeping with that story if Sansa sucks it up and writes to the Vale. One thing that yesterday’s episode made pretty clear is that the actions and failures of Starks and Stark scions have cost them the support of the other Northerners: and after those failures, the other Northerners do not have a lot of support to lend, anyway. And for all that viewers have seen “House Evil” in the Boltons, well, the Boltons did help push the Iron Born out, and now they seem to be rallying against the Wildlings.
There “literally” are many reasons why Sansa would not do that.
1) Sansa initially rejected LF’s offer of aid: an untactical but understandable response to what happened with Ramsay;
2) Sansa was over-confident that the Northerners would instantly rally to support a Stark restoration;
a) She still has a few romantic notions that oversimplify the concept of “loyalty”
b) She underestimated how Robb’s and Jon’s actions would hurt her house’s standings;
c) She seemed unaware that the Boltons had actually been helping other Northerners.
3) She now realizes that they cannot rally more than a few hundred men (although each Bear Island counts for 10!): and at this point, admitting to Jon that she had access to a large army all along is pretty shameful.
But this is the biggest point: it is not so much that Sansa was holding out on Jon: Sansa was holding out on herself. We’ve all been through this sort of thing, where the voice in the back of your mind is telling you: “You are over-reacting! This is the smart thing to do!” Well, that little voice almost certainly had been growing in Sansa’s mind as they failed to raise the North.
lol… no, that never occurred to me. I assumed it was some camp or another: I had no idea which one. Seeing an anvil makes me think of Gendry about as much as seeing a raven reminds me of Maester Luewin: it’s just too ubiquitous in this world to associate with any one person.
But did anyone else expect them to break into a chorus of the “Simple Shaker Song” in that scene?
Yeah, I don’t remember this “Broken Man” speech in particular, but they needed to cut down on the Clegane time, not add to it. McShane was good, and it’s great that they got him for such a small part, but for the first time this year, it seemed that we were getting extraneous narrative.
Still, I do wonder if this somehow gets the Hound back into action and perhaps gets him up north or someplace. Obviously, the Hound is not Beorn – one man is not going to change the tide of battle – but they need to start consolidating the 2ndary characters as well.
The phrase “with what army?” comes to mind.
Having given thought to the Arya scenes it clearly has to be a setup and not being caught by surprise.
The previous episode she was aware that her actions meant she should very quickly get her things and hide. Given that she would hardly go out the next day and walk so publically flashing money around like she did. Even if it weren’t her that sort of behaviour would make her a target for thieves etc and a pretty dumb way to behave. So either it was her and she wanted to be seen publically as maybe her plan was to draw the waif out and try and have a controlled “death” or it wasn’t her.
The troupe angle allows a nice link into the whole acting dead idea and falling into dark water is a classic trick in films when someone does a “switch” as you technically never see her get from the bridge to the shore, you just assume its her as she then is very publically bleeding through a crowd. If she had just survived she would very quickly hide whilst trying to heal her wounds. To do what she did was again a public display of “look I’m dying”. It means the waif will probably go to check shes ok and then the real battle ensues.
The other option of someone else being Arya is possible but it just seems less logical. Anyone but a FM wouldn’t wear someone elses face on theirs for a start! It could be another FM as surely there are quite a few of them but unless they have crazy healing powers it seems quite a sacrifice unless its a “only death can pay for life” type situation here.
I fully suspect the chase from the trailer to be the start of the show next week, cant wait!!!!
Sue the Fury,
Yeah I felt it was weirdly set-up as well. Did the theater troupe even have fake blood. Look like they used red cloth as blood in the plays.
It might actually be possible they are ignoring Clegane bowl (straight to Cersei burning the city, would be faster) and set up Clegane to take over Brienne’s storyline.
So next episode: Brienne will meet up with Jaime, informs him about the Stark girls. Jaime tells Black Fish, he decides to live another day to help out his niece in The North (maybe with an indirect route to Brotherhood without Banners). So Riverrun will still be taken peacefully with The Black Fish swim-escaping the Freys.
Clegane will track down and kill Lem Lemoncloak and his buddies, leading him into the Brotherhood without Banners camp. Which leads to, surprise surprise… the same Lady Stoneheart reveal from the books, but with Clegane!
My point is she doens’t have to do that.
She can tell Jon, “I have had word from the Vale. My cousin is on his way with a large force to liberate Winterfell. Let’s plan how they will help us in the battle.”
How hard is that?
ygritte,
Don’t know howa is that. Dragons are unchained but still locked in the crypts under the pyramid. Viserion or Rhaegal will be used for battle of Meereen or how can we call it.
One question, do we have an official synopsis for episode 8 as yet? Other than that leaked one which could very well be fake?
If a RW 2.0 exists (and I think that on this show, it’ll be more of a feast to celebrate the retaking of Riverrun than an actual wedding), it’ll be in E10.
Chad Brick,
I don’t think it would be a plot hole
One scenario, this is all part of Arya’s plan.
Another scenario, they are showing us that Arya still has some weaknesses (arrogance, vengeance, etc) that cloud her judgement.
Riverhawk,
Ugh I thought she would get to westeros before season end LOL
I believe that Euron Greyjoy will be revealed to be the Harpy in Episode 10. Thoughts?
….except in the imaginations of weirdos.
Grrls Rule!
…In “The Broken Man” she was rebuked for being female..
How was she rebuked for being female? I thought it was for the families she married into. Maybe I need to watch it again but…
Ugh why can’t people be nice? And why do they find boogey men (or women if you prefer!) behind every corner?
It’s not an either/or situation.
None of those reasons apply to her not telling Jon about it once she’s actually decided to send for Littlefinger.
Now, we haven’t seen the next episode, so maybe she does do that having written the letter, but people are talking about her deciding to write the letter in what is portrayed as conditions of secrecy.
Geralt of Rivia,
OK I wasn’t sure whether he just unchained them or set them free. I remember after the episode some were wondering about a door being left open.
shane,
Yes! Would Stannis have believed in a victory if he didn’t actually see himself in the scene? Where is lightbringer? If Brienne had killed him she would have taken his sword and returned it to Davos.
The least exciting episode for me this season, but I would still rate it 8/10. It was a build-up episode, and I am good with that.
The Mormont storyline was awesome (and how epic did that castle look like!!!), the Blackfish and Jaime were pretty interesting, as was Arya’s three minutes, but a shame she let her guard down.
The hound is one of my favorite minor characters, but somehow I felt his scenes and those of Ian McShane didn’t contribute anything.
Olenna was awesome as always, and nice touch from Margaery with that rose.
Next week seems a lot more action-packed for King’s Landing, and this storyline needs it – well, in my opinion anyways.
The High Sparrow bored me again. I prefer ten of Dany’s speeches over any more screen time from this guy. No offense to the actor though.
I am surprised that Peter Dinklage skipped two episodes in a row. Didn’t see that coming at all.
Next three episodes are going to be beyond awesome and I can’t wait!
Ghosts Lunch,
Cool observation in your last paragraph!
I think arya was wounded badly no tricks no fake anything …..she will struggle for few days ……I also think lady crane is done …arya will kill the waif all by herself …and will probably pass out …..that will be the end of her story in season 6 ……..
or when arya kills the the waif jaqen is gonna show up and give a nod of approval ……and she will somehow struggle to the boat and will be on her way back to westeros …..
those are the two scenarios I see….happening ..but I’m mostly wrong….so ………
I still think that Sansa should have offered the Mormonts Rickon as Lyanna’s future downtrodden husband! The Starks could use a few of those genes to go with the honor genes that keep getting them killed….
But Sansa does not have that. To do that, she needs to accept LF’s offer: and it would be very hard for Sansa to admit to herself that she needs LF’s aid. She was positive that the North would rise for her family. However, she has just learned a valuable lesson for the first time: loyalty is a two-way street. And she probably is just now getting a good understanding of how devastating her brother’s war was for the north.
Sansa probably also is sick of relying on other people. And that, too, is understandable. However, this is an important part in learning to become a leader: learning when to do things yourself and learning when to let others do things for you. She’s probably learned her lesson. Again: this is not Tolkien. Jon, Daeny, Sansa, etc., are not born knowing how to rule, but are going to learn to lead from trial and error. This is not quite a Bildungsroman, but it has a lot in common with one.
Now Sansa has done is basically put a prayer to wing. There is no point in telling Jon about it: chances are that it will come to nothing.
RosanaZugey,
Maybe The Hound replaces the Lady Stoneheart character, and he avenges the weak, now that he is a free agent, so to speak?
Im sorry but Arya needs to be done with the FM and the Waif by next episode. If this drags to the finale that would be lame.
I was hoping she would get to Westeros in this season, but it seems will be seeing her on a boat or something in episode 10. Whatevs.
I wonder what the title of next week signifies for Arya?
Um, no, there’s every reason to tell Jon about it, because it would stop him from marching his <2500 men to certain defeat at Winterfell with all haste. And while there are variables, she knows Baelish wants her; there's every reason to think he'll show up.
Next week is going to be jam packed!
KL (I choose violence)
Braavos
Mereen
Riverrun seige
Hound
North/Winterfell (probably scene with Davos seeing Shireens pyre or northern speech from filming news) and/or a Ramsay/Rickon scene. Don’t think Ramsay will miss 4 straight episodes.
Dorne maybe? Haven’t been there since the premeire.
Maybe a quick Bran scene?
Will we see the Wall again before seasons end?
How would that be a test for the waif? And why would they have a secondary character testing a tertiary character?
My bet is that this is going to involve Mercy and the theater troupe in some way. My suspicion is that (to reverse the idiom) they just fired a gun that was not obviously hung last week.
Alternatively, maybe Arya is going to stumble into a Red Priest and get healed that way. That gun certainly has been hung on the Wall, and that would put another character in R’hllor’s debt.
dragonbringer,
Is Emilia the first Game of Thrones actor to lead a successful movie? I feel like they haven’t had much luck. Lol
Maybe this seasons ends with Arya on a boat back to Westeros like Season 4 ended with her leaving Westeros?
I still having a funny feeling that Brienne will convince Jamie to honor his oath and march the Lannister army to WF to help Sansa!
We still have to meet Melanie Liburd’s Red Priestess, so that’s possible.
Now we know the bloody hand in the trailer was definitely Arya.
What would she do in Westeros though? I mean, we already got Jon/Sansa fans complaining about their favorite being overshadowed by the other. Throw in the Arya fans as well and can you imagine it? Lol
Sean C.,
But that would mean telling Jon the whole story. Sansa is not going to want to do that. You are leaving out the human factor here. Sansa suffered a huge trauma at Ramsay’s hands. The emotional upheaval from that has spilled over onto LF and everything associated with that. And in the real world, these sorts of things cause people to do irrational things. They have developed Sansa as an abuse victim this year: and that makes perfect sense.
Khal Tommen,
I thought so too! I actually got closer to the screen to make sure it wasn’t him. haha
I enjoyed the Quiet Isle until Lem butchered the place. I feel like Lem is one of those who left BwB
.
Arya, yeah idk. Maybe this is some twist but atm there are questions with no perceptible answers.
Asha scene was fine until that last line. I cringed. Why not just have her get up and leave? Announcing your exit (and poorly) took all the weight out of the scene imo.
Marge and Lyanna. Maybe I just enjoy direct storytelling via subtlety. Those scenes were handled well. I can throw Tormund and Wildlings in there as well for instances where straightforward storytelling can be dramatic.
BF and Jaime canon asf!! I would have enjoyed a BF joke about a dual being his advantage but Bronn’s gotta do something.
Hoping for some BwB and FM crystallization.
Sean C.,
They’ll burn on the crosses i bet it. Ramsay figures out they want to betray him.
As someone watching Ray Donovan, I giggled a bit that Ian McShane took the name Ray for GoT. I´m pretty sure he was allowed to choose that name and thought it to be funny. Either that, or the ones working on this episode had a sense of humour.
Anyways, great set-up episode, finally House Tyrell (and especially Olenna) isn´t treated like a punching bab anymore, but as the politically apt and cunning house it is. Seing Olenna stick it to the Mother of Madness has to be one of my personal favourite scenes of the season.
Other than that, it was really sad to see Jaime´s last bit of self-respect shatter when Blackfish called upon the next oath Jaime couldn´t keep. Both actors were great in that scene and I do think that even the most casual show-watchers could feel the emotional impact for Jaime (Oh, and BLACKFISH IS BACK!!!). Thankfully, most likely Jaime will get to set out on his path to redemption when it gets ovious that Sansa is in serious trouble and that she needs the help of as many people as possible –> Riverrun will be surrendered peacefully –> Blackfish escapes –> Jaime gets another shot to fulfill the oath, maybe even going to the Nort himself.
It´s great to see that one´s two favourite characters will most likely stcik around some time…
Wimsey,
Agreed. To many forget the human factor here.
BranTheBlessed,
go kill walder frey
start taking people off that damn list
After a little thought the Arya scene seems obvious to me. It’s almost impossible for that person we saw as Arya to survive those wounds. And people already pointed out it’s most likely Arya jumping from roofs in the next episode preview.
We still think it’s impossible that Arya will die and it would be weird to have her saved by magic or something. We all suspect it’s really the Waif that’s being tested. So we can assume the Faceless Men play all their apprentices against each other. So my best bet is that “Arya” is really a Faceless apprentice in disguise on a mission he might not fully understand. It could be Jaquen himself, but that wouldn’t make much sense, since he knows the Waif will kill fake Arya.
The only real question here is how did they get her face. We assume it’s only dead people, but who knows, maybe they scanned her face because she already wore someone else’s, or the can make artificial ones of people they know.
With respect to the speech, it wouldn’t have worked on TV, just like the natural dialogue that appears on TV often doesn’t work on the page. What feels and sounds right differs fairly substantially in the two media. Natural spoken language is shorter, full of hems and haws, and has a relatively snappy back-and-forth. When put on the page, though, it can often be annoying to read. Conversely, the “spoken” language in books tends to be composed of longer, more elegant, and more complex sentences that you would normally speak. This works great in print, but sounds stilted and overly formal on screen.
While I would have loved to have the speech in full, that would have been way too much for the casual audience.
I haven’t read the books but I read that passage. It’s not great literature people. They’re creating a great show. The expectations you get from mining the book aren’t healthy.
I found it to be an exceptionally satisfying episode. It worked as a compact, complete episode, while still pointing forward. They actually took their time with the storylines. Had such a nice touch.
Oh, good catch there! At any rate, there are a couple of obliquely hung guns (the theater group, Red Priests) that might offer ways out. I would still lean towards the theater group: if so, the Arya might have planned on that possibility and might be trying to decoy the Waif into thinking she is dead. One thing that does stand out: Arya was injured, but nowhere near as badly as she should have been. That is consistent with something else (e.g., a stage prop) being the source of much of the blood.
However, I would not be surprised if it’s R’hllor again, either. Indeed: there is no reason why it cannot be both!
I hope so! I think that whatever happens as a result of Brienne and Jaime meeting up, it will be (at least somewhat) redeeming for Jaime. They are teasing us with the “I love Cersei and I’d do anything for her blahblah!!” shit in the preview.
Brienne is going to be like “Fine, I can’t stop you from throwing your life away on stupid (the gods know love is irrational and so do I), but none of this matters unless we save Westeros. So let me take the Tully army North and save Westeros, damn it, and if you have a spec of honor you’ll bring the Lannister army too!”
I just hope that Brienne doesn’t have to die to get Jaime to do the right thing. Please.
Geralt of Rivia,
Don’t know why you’re bringing Dany up, I didn’t mention her. I’m talking about Jon and Sansa. They let a 10 year old shut them up. They let a man tell them that house Stark was dead, and did nothing.
Tycho Nestoris,
Her name is Yara. Lol
Off-Topic Otto,
Agreed. People are already ”complaining” that the Hound scenes were too long.
Now imagine putting a 6-7 minutes long speech in there. It simply doesn’t work on TV.
The Riverlands (Clegane Edition) (A): I thought this was a nice reintroduction, though the conversations between the Hound and McShane were written like they barely knew each other when, timeline-wise, Sandor must have been there for at least a year, if we’re to believe that a year passes each season.
The Riverlands (Riverrun Edition) (A): Beautiful location work (the difference between this and the first season is really night-and-day, budget-wise), nice to see Bronn again. The Blackfish’s return was very well-done, and “I’m not impressed” perfectly sums up my attitude toward the show’s version of Jaime these days. Hopefully this is the start of better things.
Volantis (B): More partying with carefree sex slaves. Yara’s interaction with Theon was effective characterization. Theon seemed a lot less Reek-ish in his previous appearance, but I guess we’re going for him being better on some days than others (this sort of characterization would probably work better in a show that could afford to give him more than one or two scenes an episode).
King’s Landing (A-): Hey, somebody finally remembered that Cersei caused all of this. No firecracker moments here, but effectively done, and I like Marg’s new pious look (is that the first crown we’ve seen on her?).
Braavos (?): Honestly, I’m not going to grade this yet. If that really was Arya and we’re to take events at face value, she’s an idiot and there’s no real sign her Faceless Man training led to any improvement. If this is all some complicated gambit, well, that may have plausibility issues, but that would at least be a payoff.
The North (C+): Davos and Lyanna were great, and I liked the scene with the Wildlings. But this plot is really being weighed down by a bunch of artificial attempts to raise the stakes. Jon and Sansa both come across as totally inept in the latter two recruitment scenes — they don’t seem to have done any preparation even for things that could have been easily anticipated (like explaining the use of the Wildlings), and they leave blindingly obvious arguments off the table (like, e.g., that Ramsay is a lunatic who has canonically murdered other nobles on a whim and cannot be trusted). Jon has now decided to dispense with attempts to recruit even other Northerners, and the prolonged secrecy about the Valemen, if it continues past this episode, would make Sansa look like a total moron. The show is also completely avoiding the issue of Jon’s leaving the Watch, which you would expect the Northern lords to all be asking about, seeing as it’s a major cultural taboo.
I am pretty much at zero percent. A cruel murderous Brotherhood has lots of other explanations: such as the effects of years and years of war. At any rate, if they were setting up Madame Petrifica Aorta, then we would have gotten a lot of buildup about a mystery character. (Think of how Doctor Who reintroduced the Master a couple of years ago: something like that would have been in order.)
El-Bobbie,
They went begging for help. It’s not a good idea to threaten or insult the people you need help from.
As I mentioned in the other thread I really enjoyed the episode. Whilst I was a little disappointed that Meribald’s speech was omitted, I really don’t think it would have suited the scenario at all, so I have no problems with it being omitted.
The one thing that bugged me was the use of Americanisms in the script. Both Bronn and Yara said “ass” when they actually should have said “arse”. It didn’t fell right coming out of their mouths, and took me out of the story. It is those sorts of things that let down Cogman’s episodes, because they’re incongruous and a sign of lazy writing.
QueenofThrones,
From your mouth to God’s ears lol.
I didn’t see the preview but I heard that Jamie says that shit. As I said in the other thread, he can die for all I care if hes still attached to Cersei after everything. ugh.
No it wouldn’t. She could easily lie about the details and say they should write to her cousin Robin for help. She already used the information Littlefinger gave her about the Tullys and lied about the source, so it’s not like she hasn’t done that sort of thing.
Mihnea,
I thought the Hound scenes were visually great almost idyllic. We all know the chaos going on all around Westeros but here we have a vision of what life could be like and then bang reality intervenes. Beautifully shot.
Well, what could they do? They are beggars at the door: any threats they might make would be hollow, petulant, and likely to be met with their undoing. Indeed, the one thing that surprised me: neither brought up that Jon was a deserter from the NW, and (by rights) should be executed then and there!
Dee,
Osha’s dead so I am taking Asha back.
redxgod,
Yup. They were amazingly shot.
Tycho Nestoris,
That’s not her name, though. 😉
Mihnea,
Is it a Stannis correction thing? What’s wrong with me calling her, Asha? I am not trolling you.
Off-Topic Otto,
It’s such an iconic bit that I don’t know why they wouldn’t distill the bit about
It seems an especially bizarre omission given that it’s the title of the episode.
Sean C.,
Perhaps if she thought to do that: but you are assuming that a victim of sexual assault would be able to coldly think about someone related to that assault (in her mind) in that way. Maybe some can: but one tragedy in the real world is that victims “over blame.”
At any rate: this is in keeping with this year’s story. Sansa does not want LF as an ally. She was convinced that she would not need him as one. Now she has learned that she does, and she has to basically suck it up and ask him for help. Sansa being able to swallow her pride and ask him for aid is one of the biggest strides forward that she has taken as a character yet: but you criticize her for not acting like an automaton?
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Perhaps the initial slashing drew the blood but would not have penetrated deep enough to cause serious injury. Then the stabbing penetrated the rather large bag of coins which we know she still had and the blood seen is simply from the first cut.
If that’s Ayra running and jumping in the preview for next week, then she clearly is not seriously hurt. Had all three of the Waif’s knife strikes actually entered Ayra’s abdomen, there is no way she would be capable of running and jumping. If she only has one superficial wound, then yes.
I don’t really buy the theory that it isn’t Ayra on the bridge but I’ve no feasible explanation for her blasé attitude to her own safety by wandering around in the open like she was.
redxgod,
Actually, I wonder when that was supposed to be happening. Obviously, not everything in the show happens at the same time: and it looked like it was still very summery (rather than impending autumn) there.
Obviously, in terms of the plot and story, it needed to be now. Still, I agree: that looked like the sort of place I would want to do field work!
That does have some merit, and with her being angry with Melisandre over Gendry it would give her a personal moral dilemma.
Tycho Nestoris,
Just a lousy attempt at a joke…
Call her whatever you want.
An anachronism (from the Greek ἀνά ana, “against” and χρόνος khronos, “time”) is a chronological inconsistency in some arrangement, especially a juxtaposition of person(s), events, objects, or customs from different periods of time.
Interesting, I thought. Saw it on a youtube clip about GoT, basically applying the logic of today’s standards to a period in history, that just doesn’t work at all.
This most of all applies to religion and the treatment of woman, the show would not be true to it’s feudal setting if it didn’t show things the way they do.
I don’t really know who this is aimed at, but it’s aimed at a lot of comments I have read.
Snap! That’s a very good insight, and so in keeping with this year’s story. I am embarrassed to admit that I had completely forgotten that possible angle.
OK, now I’m leaning Red Cleric. 😀
(Now someone can convince me theater troupe with some other clever insight that I have overlooked!)
Mihnea,
In that case haha!
Dee,
It is
Tycho Nestoris,
But her name is Yara? Lol.
She was, as I said, already able to do that with his information about the Tullys.
This is not a trivial matter. It’s the difference between the destruction of their army and them winning. There is no reason not to give Jon this information, when it would stop him from doing something she doesn’t want him to do, and since he will learn this information anyway when the Valemen show up.
Whether something is “in keeping with this year’s story” doesn’t mean it makes sense or is well-executed.
Dee,
She’s called Asha in the books.
B-Cog interview
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/05/game-thrones-the-hound-interview
The title has its roots in the books too, correct?
[The character of Ray] is a combination of a couple characters in the books – with additional characteristics we added. One of those characters gives a speech in the fourth book referred to as “The Broken Man” speech by A Song of Ice and Fire fans. The speech itself didn’t make it into the episode, but it inspired the character and some of his dialogue. So the title of the episode is a nod to that speech – kind of like when we called episode 205 “The Ghost of Harrenhal,” even though that term wasn’t spoken out loud in the show.
Another time-related question: It feels like we’re jumping between storylines that have very vastly different lengths of time passing between each scene?
The timelines between the various storylines don’t necessarily line up within a given episode. For instance, the “Northern Tour” Jon and Sansa embark on would probably take a couple weeks, but Arya’s storyline over the past few episodes only spans a few days. We realized awhile ago that if we tied ourselves in knots trying to make all the “story days” line up between all the characters the momentum would suffer.
Blackfish´s Ally,
According to the trailer for episode 8, Blackfish won’t surrender Riverrun, so he might die … I can’t see him running away. I was worried about Pod, but I believe he is in the boat with Brienne, right???. I hope they gave Tobias Menzies a couple of lines.
Next episode looks with tons of action… Arya Vs. The Waif, Siege of Riverrun, The Mountain Vs. Sparrows, attack in Meereen or angry dragons …
Mihnea,
weird
El-Bobbie,
Same way people bring Jon when Daeny is being mentioned. Is just we have two leaders Jon, Daeny. Two main protagonists. People likes to point out parallels and compare them.
Lyanna Mormont would wipe the floor with many other characters because you wouldn’t expect that from a kid. Besides they literally needed to beg this or that lord with not much to promise as Stark name lost it’s credit after War of Five Kings. Sansa counted on this that their name would secure them men but she was mistaken. Jon knew this and his look when Sansa stood up to Lord Glover was telling. This was going to be hard job for them. With their reputation, Wildlings there is literally only to beg and hope they agree. White Walkers stories are for kids and not everyone is going to believe that.
Lady Mormont presented valid arguments. Same as Lord Glover because whether you like it or not but he was right. Jon is a bastard and Sansa Lady Bolton or Lannister. Wildlings are problem, Robb’s own stupidity led them to Red Wedding. Of course the Boltons bertrayed them but let’s not forget Cat let Jaime go, he beheaded Lord Rickard Karstark and lost half of his forces and broke an oath to Freys by marrying Talisa instead of alliance that was agreed.
People in the North are gonna be mad at them and while I love Starks but people need to look beyond their love for them. Their own mistakes let them to this state of their House, Boltons only capitalize on that.
El-Bobbie,
Well seems to be the case if you dont take senior actors like Sean bean .,Lena and peter dinklage .
Nathalie emmanuel starred in fast and furuous 7 whivh turned out to be a success
X men is successful right so Sophie scores one
I liked kit in testament of youth.
We know how good a performer Maisie is but I don’t think she will be getting big roles like emilia or Sophie ..
And issac is doing such a good job as bran right now
So I think they just all need a time to get those hits which are due for them
I wish to see Emilia and Emma watson in a same movie
I think we are supposed to find it frustrating (and boy, do I…), but I also think that his actions this season are understandable. We have no evidence that Jaime knows half of what Cersei has been up to, and since he got back to KL post Dorne, Cersei hasn’t asked him to do a single immoral thing. In fact, she’s asked him to act like a hero on several occasions, which is exactly what he’d like to think of himself as. From Jaime’s perspective, Cersei’s changed from the “hateful woman” as he called her in Season 4 to someone who he can love fully (and who he believes loves him too).
He’s wrong, for sure, and maybe willfully blind in some ways, but I don’t think he’s “regressed” since he hasn’t actually done anything awful for Cersei.
Brienne’s been able to bring the best out of Jaime before and she’ll do it again. Fingers crossed.
One other thing is the Jaime redemptive arc ruined comments, these annoy me. Jaime has been in love with his sister most of his life, it is not something that will be cast aside easily, no matter how honorable Brienne is.
I think it would be much more unrealistic to go from what he was to a completely redemptive honorable character, just because of a 3 month road trip with Brienne.
I hope he does follow into the Jaime that is an honorable guy, but of course he still loves his sister!
McShane is a brand new character. You don’t give him a five minute speech and expect audiences to sit through it. Adaptation, folks. And Cogman is a master at it.
That would be an excellent resolution to this situation, it will allow Sansa to play an active role in the Stark victory, as an equal partner with Jon and not as a supporting or leading character. It would also remove the controversial “allegiance” or “reliance” some claim she has to LF if she were able to procure the Valemen on her own. All of these plot points would certainly fit the description we’ve had of Sansa’s amazing arc this season and would silence some of those who have issue with her (well deserved) prominence of late.
QueenofThrones,
Good points, actually. Did not think of it this way.
Oh, and the Blackfish is definitely surrendering to come to Sansa’s aid. No doubt about that.
Sacred Lime,
Not say Cersei in the show is much more human and….normal.
She is so crazy in the books I had hard time believing Jaime could love her.
With Lena it’s much, much easier. She does a fantastic job at actually making Cersei’s character a realistic human being.
That said, I still think the day of reckoning is coming. EP10 is my guess.
OMG me too! I coulda swore it was him too! And did you see Lyannas adviser? He was the spitting image of Stannis!
ArgonathofBraavos,
we have some very different predictions in these comments
many think he wont and he will die fighting at riverrun
Sansa’s prominence makes perfect sense, as she’s a Stark. But she’s still young and learning. She’s never led before. This is some of the best writing in the series. She’s acting almost exactly as a woman of her youth, with her experience and lineage (and personality) would likely act in such a situation. She’s her mother’s daughter, with fewer years of experience.
ArgonathofBraavos,
Yeah, this.
As much as I like Cogman I have to say I’m very excited for D&D’s writing, starting next week.
http://i.imgur.com/igWHO2w.jpg
GET HYPE!!!
Mag,
Still possible that BF leaves with Brienne to go help Sansa and surrenders Riverrun. Though he did seem quite determined to keep it or die trying in this episode, he hasn’t yet met Brienne so he may change his mind and decide that a pile of rocks isn’t worth dying over.
Apollo,
Me too! I swear that was him. Didn’t she do the hiss like the Daenerys would be assassin as well?
luki17,
To be completely honest.
I still don’t think it will happen but the chances did grew quite a bit, I admit.
And the fact that people are doing so means that M,B&W are succeeding in their storytelling.
QueenofThrones,
especially that he did mention sansa and arya
<3
If you are not willfully blind, then you are not in love. I am quite certain that Paul McCartney sang that some time.
Darkrobin,
Bring on my tin foil hat! I’m wondering if Jaqen was Arya & it was a test for the waif. The FM don’t necessarily need a dead person’s face because Arya saw her own face just before she went blind.
How does the Blackfish know about Jaime’s oath about the Stark girls?
Mihnea,
Yeah she does do a great job of making you almost root for her sometimes.
I hope Jaime’s second meeting with Brienne sort of jogs his memory of what he was becoming, she was one of the only people who began to see him as something other than the Kingslayer.
Unfortunately for Jaime …”We don’t choose who we love”
In the preview Tyrion looks at a chandalier(correct me here) that’s shaking.
In the trailer we have the meeting room in Meereen ”exploding”.
I think Dany is back.
I agree! And though I was half hoping for a Jaime + Lancel conversation this week, it always irked me a little bit that in the books
It’s just a little bit shallow, ya know? When there are plenty of better reasons than that…
During the House Glover meeting, I was thinking that it was playing out exactly as we thought it would, per months of speculation, with the expected reaction concerning the wildlings. At the end of the scene, I almost expected Jon, in desperation, to announce he has a giant and a red witch too! 🙂
It was interesting that Davos & Jon brought up the subject of legend (Long Night, NK, undead, WWs but not wildlings) with the Mormont child and got support approved but only (hesitantly) disclosed the wildling factor to the Glover adult and got denied.
I still vaguely wonder if Jaime would join them in order to fulfill his vow to Catelyn. However, at this point, this has become a very (very!) vague wonder.
A flayed man none,
Great question
thurg00d420,
Well if nothing else he didn’t turn on them, didn’t betray them turn them over to the Boltons… so he’s either on the fence or determined to stay out of more war.
Sacred Lime,
A flayed man none,
He was with Catelyn and Robb’s forces shortly after she let Jaime go so he’d know about the circumstances.
Geralt of Rivia,
Lol you mean when they use them to show how one is superior than another in every aspect and contrast between them.
Never mind the comment though I am not going to get into this type of arguments but still can’t resist ..
Hope I will have better restraint hereafter
Regarding the Jon vs Sansa debate, this review touches on the topic and the point the author makes here is a good reason why so many people are frustrated with Jon’s arc post resurrection, imo.
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/06/game_of_thrones_recap_not_all_heroines_swing_swords_or_ride_dragons/
“While I can appreciate the show’s efforts to build the push against the Boltons around Sansa’s quest for a well-earned vengeance, I can’t help but feel that the writers are neglecting Jon Snow. What must it feel like to prepare for war against a particularly brutal foe when you know that the only thing awaiting you once the blade finds your neck is just a black oblivion? And what does it mean to rally these houses around a family name that was never really yours? When considering how the show has so far squandered Jon Snow’s resurrection, I can’t help but think of how “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” handled Buffy’s return from the dead—she was a broken woman, bitterly seeking meaning in the chaos of demon-slaying and violent, house-quaking sex with an enemy. Right now, Jon seems like an appendage to Sansa’s story. Which is in some ways a fascinating and truly subversive reversal of traditional gender roles, but in other ways a sad waste of a unique story—especially when we consider the ways that the writers and performers can add depth and dimension to characters who may be seen as preening or hollow.”
Indeed! Did you catch how her Maester immediately leaned over but she hushed him without listening? My immediate thought was that he had been telling her that this was nonsense, but that she wanted to believe her uncle. Still, this shows what an uphill battle they still face with “The Walkers are Coming!” I think that it will take a lot of giant ice cubes to convince them otherwise…..
Mag,
Hmm. I normally don´t watch previews to go into the GoT-sessions with a clean slate, but now after your comment, I did watch it. Based on what I saw, it´s rather ambiguous what will happen.
It could be (and is likely) that the scenes with Jaime and Brienne precede Brienne giving Brynden the letter and the Balckfish will then surrender and escape on his own.
The second option would be that the Freys and Lannisters commence their assault on Riverrun and the Blackfish doesn´t surrender beforehand –>; he will be killed.
The third one could be that Brienne actively uses the boat to smuggle Brynden out of Riverrun, regardless of the circumstances. Maybe they do make an agreement to help Sansa somehow, the preview also hints at that by showing Pod/Brienne/Brynden together. That one seems to be the most likely to me since there is the most evidence for it in the preview. He could be killed on that attempted “escape” (escape is the wrong word, he would never just run, but oh well) or Riverrun could fall in the meantime (Brienne´s shocked face?), but I think he will survive this situation and this all will have a rather happy end.
Truth is, i do not know what will happen, yet the third option seems the most likely to me based solely on that preview.
mrspeel,
This is a better theory/explanation than any of the others I’ve seen so far. Good job!
LOVE this!! Couldn’t agree more! 🙂
Can’t it be Sansa’s season as WELL as Jons?? Some people, LOL
for an unsullied this is just amazing. so the 3 looters were the broken men. very much wish a version of this speech made it to the show.
SerDuncanTheTall,
Remember Robin Arryn said that “we should help her” with respect to Sansa- in Yohn Royce’s presence, and LF had Royce assemble the army- Sansa could contact Royce directly and get what she wants/needs – but does she know that? She met him, she knew he was a friend of her Father’s- she knows the Vale men are assembling at Moat Cailan…
Where was she sending the Raven- to the Eryie or the Moat? If to the Moat the perhaps Royce gets it- and I can certainly imagine him opening LF’s mail under such circumstances – he’s been ordered by his Lord (Robin) to help his Lord’s cousin- Sansa Stark- and here’s a letter with a Stark’s sigil/seal…
For people wondering about Sansa’s letter, there’s a caption of it online where the legible parts are:
“…Now you…”
“…of the Vale are under your command…”
“…your aid, and I shall see to it that you…”
Wimsey,
Pity they can’t somehow get a wight on this side of the wall. They can freeze him like a wight-sicle and put him in a cage and thaw him out for demonstrations for the houses.
And Jon can maybe do the doubting Thomas thing where he lets them see/feel the wounds he has. (I’m not sure but they didn’t seem to be healing up much last time we saw them).
Mihnea,
So you think they are going to be having dany break the peace which tyrion masterfully brought ..I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s how it ended up happening ..
I can see dany bringing down the pyramid after the battle but not before that …
But am sure they are going to make dany absent in next episode ..why give her scenes with dosh khaleen or let her have a normal conversation ..and so she will come back with episode 9 and crush those sons of harpy like tywin and stannis did in previous season..
And What we see on the preview with tyrion is in night I believe and shot from trailer wherewhere dany’s room blown up happens in the day
Am personally looking forward to amount of time going to be spend on siege of river run and siege of meereen…while that siege and army of yunkai is some of the worst writing of GRRm ..there was an awful lot of time spent on that with multiple povs including dany barristan tyrion jorah and victarion ..I wonder how much time its going to get 15 min max i think
Preview discussion below:
Brienne says (if I understand correctly) “If I fail to convince the Blackfish to surrender, and if you retake the castle, honor compels me to fight you.” I’m trying to get my head around why and how this works. It’s definitely not clear to me if she talks to BFish or Jaime first, but it would make more sense that she would talk to Jaime first since she has to go through the seige lines to get to Riverrun.
OK so if Jaime retakes the castle, presumably that means the Tully men are dead/captured and the Lannisters are in control. Why would Brienne fight Jaime in those circumstances? Honor compels her to get the Blackfish and bring him (and his army) back to Sansa, not to waste time and lives fighting the Lannister/Frey army. And anyway even if honor compelled her, what would it achieve? It’s not like the Lannisters are going to let the Tully’s/blackfish and her go if she beats Jaime in some sort of duel.
Wasn’t Jaqen originally a shorter, broader black man when Arya first came to the HoBW?
dragonbringer,
No, not in that sense. She isn’t destroying the pyramid.
Just thought that she is getting back and has a ”cool” entrance with Drogon. I thought his wings could do the shot we have in the trailer.
They had already sent a raven to House Manderly. There is one place Sansa knows she could get a full army, and that is the Vale with LF. It doesn’t make much sense for that letter to go anywhere else.
Sean C.,
Yeah, I´ve seen that, too. Now I wonder if Sansa has left out her name and just pressed the Stark-sigil on it because she did not want to look too dire in need and thus addressed the letter to Robyn Arryn, not Petyr. It would probably be the same outcome, yet it would save her some dignity to go around Petyr to some extent while still receiving the troops of the Vale for aid.
This. There doesn’t seem to be any point to any secrecy. More than ever, they need to be united and well coordinated if they want to win against the Boltons. I’m hoping Sansa would share this with Jon before they march to WF.
Sean C.,
I was so excited to see the Hound at the beginning but the northern story just totally ruined the episode for me. Sansa and Jon look like bumbling idiots. Davos, who is not from the north, knows the place better than the natives (including Roose who told Ramsay you can’t rule the north without the Starks). The North is suffering from severe amnesia, turning out to be the most seriously outbreaking treacherous c@nt$ of the seven kingdoms. Even little Lyanna Mormont forgot the awesome letter she wrote last season to treat the freaking Starks who showed up at her door with cringe inducing disdain. I’m just so pissed and disappointed.
Thanks!!
No it can’t!!! Penis >>> Vagina!!!
(with apologies to the many fine eunuchs in this series…)
Blackfish´s Ally,
She didn’t leave out her name. She signs it “Sansa Stark”.
I am not a reader of the books, so perhaps my understanding of Sansa is not deep, I see her as well, very generic a pretty girl who makes pretty clothes, eats lemon cakes and not much more. I find it very hard to believe that she is this strategic, intelligent girl, by no means am I saying I am right or wrong but to me she is a bore, sorry, and I could not careless about her storyline
mother of Danes,
Plenty of book readers feel the same as you do. I’m not one but tastes vary… :p
Sean C.,
Woah, I totally glossed over that. Shame shame shame
Maybe I should not have just read the transcription but looked at the actual picture…
mother of Danes,
Yeah, there are planty of book readers who think that. I am one who still does.
It’s the show that actually made me interesed in her story.
Yup, he will definitely show up. He already offered her his army! I’m sure he’d be so giddy once he received that letter. This is exactly what he wanted to happen – for Sansa to need him.
Mihnea,
I think the chambers is getting blown up with the help of trebuchet ..thats what i have been thinking from the moment i watched the trailer…like i said its happens in the middle of a day so middle of the battle of meereen . I don’t think a dragon wings can do that when they are landing ..
I can’t think of a scenario how they will have dany not look bad if she lands in meereen next episode before the sons of harpy attacks ..
Blackfish´s Ally,
In that particular picture her signature isn’t on it, but that’s because it’s from before she signs and seals it.
dragonbringer,
Yeah, could be this.
I was just thinking of other possibilities.
Actually “rallying support” from various small houses is what Davos is really good at, he’s had tons of experience at it, it was his main job for Stannis- it’s a key piece to his skill set.
I’d like her to kill Walder Frey by season’s end – during that scene they’re celebrating with the Lannisters. Red Wedding vengeance! Wishful thinking, I know. At the rate things are going though, I’d be happy to see her alive and sailing for Westeros by ep10.
dragonbringer,
Just had a thought! After 2 episodes without Tyrion, what if we get back to Meereen and siege has already begun and they are starting to starve…etc.
It would explain the 2 episode skip.
jpwf,
This, that was his job.
Ser Not Appearing in this Series,
Or maybe that wasn’t actually Arya. We’ve already seen Jaqen has the ability to appear as Arya in the finale last season. I think it was him testing the Waif. If I’m wrong and the writers actually had Arya standing around, unsuspecting and unarmed, that would be very disappointing.
Mihnea,
Yeah I think that’s how they are gonna start up the scene there at meereen..
We still have to see varys leave and tyrion having hallucinations about shae ..i think that all will be happening in this episode ..
I think this is very realistic. It’s not that these other lords love the Starks because tradition dictate they should. They respected Ned and his ancestors not simply out of tradition or because they were perceived to be greater or closer to God(s) or whatever. It’s not something in their blood/DNA. What this story is showing us is that it’s the power that the Starks had (big castle, large army, money, etc) that made them the respected house to be feared and loved (love = loyalty / fealty) and they don’t have that any more. Sansa is like us because she believed the fairy tale of loyalty as tradition, as a part of culture and not as a social construct enforced my money and violence/power to make and enforce rules.
Sam,
Everyone is assuming that the letter went to LF. Could it be that obvious, or is there a twist here? Maybe she sent it directly to her cousin, Lord Robin. Or maybe it went to someone else… maybe it went to the Blackfish and that’s how that situation gets resolved.
Boston Snow,
I also am hoping for a twist and that it’s for someone else. Probably won’t be for the BF because Brienne brought the letter herself (the preview shows her handing him a letter).
Boston Snow,
She send Brienne instead of a raven to Blackfish. LF will read anything that comes to Robin and as his advisor and uncle. Lord Royce is pretty much powerless. So it has to be Littlefinger and he controls Vale army.
Boston Snow,
Why would Sansa have been that visibly conflicted/upset about writing to anybody other than Littlefinger?
Sean C.,
Why would she have written so formally to LF?
I got the sense that she was writing to someone that she didn’t know well.
Yeah, there’s certainly something weird about that Arya situation. Also, the people didn’t look like they were seeing a girl wounded. They looked more like they were seeing a girl acting weird. What if she’s not really wounded and it’s just an illusion? Eh, I’m the one sounding weird now. lol
I guess ymmv, but for me, adaption is what happened to ToJ speeches. It could’ve been done here as well, but wasn’t. Just curious.
QueenofThrones,
I assume that Brienne would have to fight Jaime due to him breaking the oath of letting no harm come to the Stark girls in that sense that he is knowingly hindering a whole army that could help Sansa from coming to her aid. He´s on the side that´s working against the Starks so he´s putting Sansa and her troops in a high risk. That´s at least the only relatively reasonable argument behind what Brienne said (that I can think of). Very strange sentence, indeed.
I think she just means that she is on the Blackfish’s side, because he is Sansa’s uncle. So if she can’t get him to surrender to join Sansa she is forced to join him.
Show!Sansa >>> Book!Sansa. Definitely.
Boston Snow,
Because that’s how nobles communicate, quite apart from the fact that she doesn’t like Baelish now and would probably prefer arms-length.
Blackfish´s Ally,
Regarding Brienne’s statement, Jaime is making war on House Tully. House Tully are allied with/subordinate to House Stark, who Brienne now serves. If Jaime attacks House Tully, Brienne feels honour-bound, as part of her duties, to side with the Tullys as a result. I think that’s straightforward.
Cock Merchant,
Blackfish´s Ally,
Ok I listened to it again and it might be that Brienne says “If I fail to convince the Blackfish to Surrender and if you attack the castle, honor compels me to fight you.” Which makes a lot more sense – she’s saying she’d Join the Blackfish’s side in any battle if there is one.
But, I still think Honor compels her to get back to Sansa rather than waste time fighting the Lannisters. Her job was to get Blackfish to come north with his army. If he refuses, then her mission has failed and she should leave. Could be she’s saying this as a way to persuade Jaime. His did look pretty torn TBH, he dones’t want to fight Brienne.
ArgonathofBraavos,
I wouldn’t be that confident … but I hope so.
So very true, of course, but I cannot think of a better explanation. Perhaps, knowing that the FM would hunt her forever and eventually win, Arya was willing to gamble her life to fake her death. I hope that we get a very satisfying, plot-hole-free explanation. I won’t be holding my breath, though. One thing I am certain of, however, is that Arya survives this season. She has to.
Below average episode in my opinion.
Turning the Brotherhood heel is a clear cut lame plot point to get Sandor fighting again. You bring McShane on for a cameo and don’t even use a word from the source material, that you by the way named the episode after? Okey dokey. Jon story continues to be a botch for me. Does anyone care that the man they’re talking to was dead and brought back to life? Why does this appear to be a shrug your shoulders event for basically everyone ?
Listen, I’m not going to whine and complain over every little change from the books. But I will about the speech. Not utilizing this for Ian McShane’s cameo is idiotic. And if they filmed it (which I doubt) and cut it, why? Even if you hate the books with a passion, it remains one of the better pieces of prose GRRM ever wrote. And this is still an adaptation….isn’t it?
Faceless Men – What we’ve seen
As others have discussed we have seen the many faces exchanged right before Arya went blind. We have seen Jaqen change faces early in the series, did his build change too? I’d have to go back and watch.
I do not think this is merely peeling a face and placing it. It is magic. The faceless learn a magic skill. Was Arya the exact height and build of the girl who’s face she used in the whore house?
I truly think that the things most are missing is that more than the face is perceived by others when it is placed on. I would also guess there are many levels of the skill. Perhaps Arya and the Waif have the basic skill of just the face and Jaqen can morph the body and even exchange without the actual skin of another.
Just some thoughts.
So I have a theory that might disrupt the Celganebowl. I don’t think that Sandor is really converted and can’t be called on by the faith to be their champion. I think he will stick to the Riverlands and will not go back to Kings Landing. But we do have one excited new convert, TOMMEN. It could be a stretch but is this how Tommen will die? Will he fight as the faith’s champion? Frankenmountain will win, Cersei will be free, but the price will be the death of her son. Maybe somehow arranged by Margery? The younger and more beautiful Queen mentioned by Maggy the frog?
Demon Monkey,
So then everybody, from Ned to Tywin to Roose to old WF lady (not just naive Jon and Sansa) were wrong in their assesment of northern loyalty.
The writers are backing down from what they have been setting up for 5 seasons just to create some false tension in the Stark camp while Ramsay the traiterous usurper, kinslayer psychopath gets everything handed down in a silver platter. Jon and Sansa for some mysterious reason don’t even mention his insanity in their sales pitch.
Everybody is coming out looking like morons in this story, including the writers.
orange,
Not sure if this will make you feel better
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/05/game-thrones-the-hound-interview
The title has its roots in the books too, correct?
[The character of Ray] is a combination of a couple characters in the books – with additional characteristics we added. One of those characters gives a speech in the fourth book referred to as “The Broken Man” speech by A Song of Ice and Fire fans. The speech itself didn’t make it into the episode, but it inspired the character and some of his dialogue. So the title of the episode is a nod to that speech – kind of like when we called episode 205 “The Ghost of Harrenhal,” even though that term wasn’t spoken out loud in the show.
This is not an opinion it is a fact.
We constantly see that Jon is a person who really values his duty, so this is a significant step for him when he decides to forsake his duty.
Duty has always been very important to Jon, it has been duty that has kept him grounded in many situations.
The more experience Jon gains the more he sees that all of these vows and oaths are not always practical, just or very logical to follow.
In the Nights Watch especially, their own vows and codes have begun to work against them and their true mission. It is a big character development for Jon, because it is a change in his moral foundation. He started to rely less on law and duties, and he started to follow more of his own judgement and moral code. It makes Jon more of a grey character.
That is a big step to take as a character.
Obviously it is almost impossible for the show to follow every book example. I am not saying it should have gone the same way in books. But there should at least be something to Jon’s resurrection, he died and was brought back to life. Surely that is a huge emotional and psychological event. He should have gained something emotional from the experience. His Nights Watch vows id not the answer, he did not have to die in order to leave the Nights Watch. Therefore his death has been somewhat pointless thus far
Dee,
It won’t…..
Ginevra,
As I have previously written, I think it may have been Jaqen posing as Arya to test the Waif. He showed us last season that he can appear as Arya.
Well that’s why she mentioned honor. What you said might be her literal mission, or something sensible to do, but certainly not honorable. She is a fighter for Sansa and her allies so one could see why she feels bound by honor to join the Blackfish. Of course that might also be a way of putting pressure on Jaime, but that only works if it’s convincing, which it most likely is coming from Brienne, and Jaime knows that.
Mrs. Podrick Payne,
Calm down Francis.
Sam,
I thought this would happen this season 🙁
Mihnea,
cant please everyone
Dee,
This.
Mihnea,
So, you can tell how I will think about something? A random internet stranger behind a username? This must be an impressive gift for you.
Listen I know this will be very difficult for you to take……but it’s okay if some people don’t like something that you do. The world will not end because of it. The flowers will continue to bloom even though we have different opinions. The sun will shine with our different thoughts. It’s going to be okay.
orange,
It’s a great gift. I have it from spending years on internet forums.
I didn’t mean this as a attack or insult or anything like that. I didn’t criticized you about your opinions. I simply said that this won’t make you feel better, and I think I was right, hell if anything I think that makes you even angrier.
Boston Snow,
I’ll do my best ?
ghost of winterfell,
oooooh never thought of Davos actually seeing the pyre that could be very interesting
Sean C.,
I think you are right. The young Lord Cerwyn became the Lord because Ramsay flayed his father. This means his support could go either way – he may support Jon to have vengeance for his father, and to avoid future flaying, or he might be too scared of Ramsay to oppose him. I hope he supports Jon, more so it would prove Roose was right that Ramsay won’t faint allies by flaying men.
Not really. Here is what IMDb says, but isn’t this the synopsis for “The Door”? I’m sure it is.
I’m looking forward to comparing the official synopsis to the leaked one to see if there are similarities. After this last episode and preview, I think the three leaked descriptions are looking more and more valid.
Yup, that’s one of the things I was baffled about. The show glossed over that probably because it’s really hard to explain to people, if you think about it. “I died and then I was resurrected. So my watch is ended.” People would think he’s crazy!
Mrs. Podrick Payne,
I think the North will remember more than they are letting on right now. Like Davos said though, if you’re going to go all in, you want to make sure you’re on the winning side.
The cold opening with Hound was amazing and Ian McShane knocked it out of the park. Didn’t miss the broken men speech but would have liked to see more of McShane’s character.
QueenofThrones,
In my scenario Arya knew the waif would be looking for her, most probably on Ragman’s Harbor trying to score a ride home to Westeros. Arya was hiding somewhere looking for the waif so she could put her plan into play. She didn’t have Needle with her so she could lull the Waif into believing she’s unarmed as well as unaware of the danger she’s in. When she spotted the waif she began wandering through the Streets acting as if she hadn’t a care in the world. She knew where the waif was the whole time and she never allowed herself to be in a position to be ambushed, or to be mortally/seriously injured. As for the possibility of being poisoned unless the waif knew where Arya was hiding out she couldn’t slip poison into Arya’s food or drink.
I could be wrong about the whole thing, but it’s the theory that makes the most sense to me especially considering how mobile Arya looks in next week’s previews.
I don’t think that would make a lot of sense. So will Jaquen die now? Why was he willingly switching in for the target of an assassination he himself ordered? Seems like a totally pointless sacrifice to me. Arya wouldn’t even know and it wouldn’t help her in any way. Or has Jaquen also magical healing powers? If all of this was planned and it’s all a ruse why didn’t he punish the Waif right there and why did he instead wander around as Arya some more, acting like he is really in trouble? All of this doesn’t really add up.
If it’s not Arya it has to be someone who doesn’t know about all of this. That’s the only good explanation for what we saw.
Sam,
“No, really, the Night’s Watch killed me, yes, my own men, but then a red priestess brought me back to life so that I could fulfill my destiny of fighting zombies and killer ice men with piercing blue eyes! That’s why my watch ended. So, it’s all ok actually, and now you should pledge your allegiance to me.”
I don’t think those conversations were necessary, and this way moves things along. TV, especially this season, has to cut out everything that isn’t absolutely necessary.
Cock Merchant,
Did Jaquen die (or go blind) when he drank the poison to end the season last year?
Mrs. Podrick Payne,
Disagree. I love the Starks but I can see why the younger generations of Northern Houses are not jumping at the chance to fight for the Starks again. Particularly since the Starks don’t actually have a real army. The wildlings are not a trained army, they are bodies who can kill a few but also bodies that will eventually be killed easily by disciplined soldiers on horseback. How many Northern houses have lost their “head figure” in Robb’s war? How many their direct heirs? How many half their men? And now winter is coming and they have a duty to their remaining men/women/small folk. Had it been Ned Stark come calling, the houses would have gone to war. No doubt. Glover pretty much says this: We wept for your father, I only agree to hear you out because of your father. Neither Jon or Sansa are Ned. Jon is a bastard and Sansa is the girl who got married to a Lannister and a Bolton. I don’t see these Northern Houses as traitors (not in the way the Boltons are or the Umbers – The Karkstarks are a different beast. I can understand why they would not follow the Starks), they are simply trying not to decimate whatever is left of their houses. Also, I would imagine the Glovers don’t have many men to begin with. They are not the Manderlys or Umbers.
Why are you all saying that the broken man speech was cut? I thought it was very obvious that it was just trimmed and slightly changed, and as a result we got the Septon Ray’s conversion speech. It was the typical adaptation change we usually have with this situations in GoT. I expected something like that instead of the original huge speech, and I was fairly satisfied.
Ginevra,
Yup, that’s the synopsis for ep 5. I still feel that the leaked ones were fake. Isn’t it weird that we have already seen the preview, with the synopsis yet to be revealed.
Except Sansa needs her, now. As her sworn sword Brienne’s honorbound to put Sansa’s needs before others or herself. The Blackfish is fighting the wrong war and is putting a pile of rocks ahead of Sansa’s well being. That’s his choice, but Brienne’s duty is to Sansa, not to help Blackfish hold Riverrun. Like he said, it could take 2 years for the Lannisters to win but Sansa doesn’t have that much time.
IMO, it’s not dishonorable to fail at your mission assuming you did all you could. Still, she will probably convince Jaime to figure out a way to end things peacefully, which is clearly the underlying goal.
I so agree…if Jaime suddenly became this good, honorable Knight, then there wouldn’t be a lick of character development to be had. If that trip with Brienne really changed him, to his core, he would’ve had her take Sansa in the night and disappear. He would’ve made good on his promise. Instead, he is home and safe and hems and haws and basically ignores Brienne’s plea until after the purple wedding, when he see’s risk for Brienne staying in Kings Landing. Before that, why upset the apple cart when he got what HE wanted. Cersei.
Jaime will never shake Cersei. Even if she were to die, it will still be Cersei and her wants front and center. That doesn’t make him a bad guy (other things play into that), it just means we know his ultimate weakness.
I never really bought into Jaime, books or show, as a redemptive character. I think he has had glaring moments of being a Knight worthy of more than a page in the Book or Brothers but his motives have always been tied to Cersei. In the books, he see’s helping Sansa Stark as his last chance at glory. Glory being the key. He isn’t helping because it’s the right thing to do. Brienne’s influence of course comes into play. She see’s that there is something to salvage in Jaime but no matter how much Brienne could preach duty and honor, Jaime will always be tied (even in death) by his duty to Cersei first.
The show obviously could have him do a 180 but that won’t happen, in my opinion, unless Cersei is gone. He may not know it all but he knows what she is capable of. Up till now, he has just chosen to ignore it. It will become impossible eventually, to ignore who she really is, but until then, he is still all Lannister.
The cut on the right side of Jon’s face has largely healed. I expect that the holes in his chest have. If nothing else, then he would just hemorrhage to death again if they did not generally heal when Mel revived him.
Still, those would be some nasty scars, and not one a living man should have. But “still, still,” people would find some way to rationalize it away.
Yeah, it does border on Monty Pythonesque! And, insofar as I can see, only the Dothraki do Monty Python parodies well! 😉
Boudica,
Actually, Jon was not doing what you state.
So, Jon never renounces his vows. He is upholding as many of them as he can in the best way that he can. Jon is just in a position where upholding one vow means breaking another, and he has to chose which vow takes precedence over another.
I think you guys must have noticed arya is wearing different clothes in that preview clip …from what she was wearing today …(((also few people who were in the market were also on the stairs …..))
so arya is getting some help I guess…
As neither Jaqen or the Waif are main characters, this seems very implausible. This is the sort of thing you do to develop primary characters, after all.
Instead, this has to involve Arya and how she is evolving and/or going to evolve. We might learn that she was setting this up in some way. We might see her get healed by a Red Priest, and thus become begrudgingly beholden to R’hllor. There might be another “out” here. However, one thing that the show has shown over and over again: when it comes down to a “big” plot moment like this, they will use something that was used before so that the audience will know what is happening when it happens.
However…. what might happen here is if Arya shows that she has outsmarted the Waif and if the Waif has shown that she is more interested in killing than in following orders, then this might somehow win Jaqen over to Arya: and the price of winning people over is a big part of this year’s story.
Kells,
While the confrontation between the Blackfish and Jaime/Lannisters is interesting, I don’t see the endgame. One of them gets the castle. Who cares in the end?
Any chance something happens next week and [to the above point about Jamie wanting glory] they both head to Winterfell to fight with Sansa and Jon?
Well said! It may have been that Glover didn’t give them the opportunity to explain, but they could have led with their best points, their best proof, and their best arguments. Caged wights would help. Focusing not on this war but the Great War, which would quickly wipe all Northern households off the face of the earth would help. Sansa’s personal rape story and Theon’s torture story might help. Naked Jon might help. I know that would help me.
Pointing to caged wights, I would have asked, how do you plan to defend Deepwood Motte against 100,000 of these when the Wall comes down? How will you feed your children during the Long Night? What can you do to protect yourself against the ice spiders still to come?
I get that they are setting Jon up to be the underdog, but they are also setting him up to be an idiot, and not the great leader he has been in the past.
Sam,
Yeah … I had high hopes for that after the season trailer, but now I also just want Arya to survive and return to Westeros. … If Arya leaves Bravos next episode, it could still happen in Episode 10. I hope so.
YES! YES!
I root for House Stark hard and of course, want them to come out on top, but the cold shoulder Jon and Sansa have received is completely understandable.
House Stark screwed up. They aren’t without their faults and missteps. As honorable as it is for Robb to have married for love (on the show), it was the nail in the coffin. Add into that, Catelyn releasing Jaime, well I would’ve hightailed it outta there as well.
One thing that really seemed to be the message, albeit unintentionally, from Robb, Catelyn and now, Sansa, is that the Stark name is what matters and these smaller houses losses aren’t as important. Robett Glover’s disdain isn’t misguided. His house was practically wiped off the map. The Bolton’s are traitors. The other houses are just trying to survive.
If Jon and company manage to take back WF, I hope we don’t hear some BS about getting revenge on these smaller houses. The previous Stark leadership (Robb, Catelyn) sold them all out. If the Starks return to WF, this could be a great test for Jon and Sansa (and any other Stark that may return) to build bridges for the real war to come.
Agree with all of those who say that Sansa should be with Littlefinger, not Jon. Littlefinger is Sansa’s primary antagonist! That is good storytelling! I certainly hope GRRM realizes this, too.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I am really really tired of d&D’s shabby treatment of Sansa’s character. First of all, she’s one of the most intriguing, sympathetic and compelling characters in the books and I DON’T say that because I have a HUGE crush on Sophie and read ALL of her interviews. I’m an expert, you could say. Anyways, from her time in KL on, D&D have just massacred her character, the worst being her not knowing the word for “sh*t” and thinking it’s “shift.” She’s clearly extremely smart; this scene did not ring true. Then, last year, she agreed to marry Ramsay Bolton. Now WHY would a family-less highborn lady on the run from the Iron Throne voluntarily choose to marry into the powerful noble family currently ruling the entire north? To what end? She has tons of other options! Military commander, Night’s Watch, Faceless Man, Sellsword, the possibilities are endless. D&D just don’t GET Sansa….
My British friends say “ass,” too.
Apollo,
Yeah it’s a tricky juggling act, as there are two distinct plotlines that have been merged
This is why show Sansa is going “behind Jons back”, because the Vale Army relates to her Vale plotline, but is irrelevant to Jons northern plotline as she is filling what I suspect is Rickons book plot
Similarly, WIldlings are irrelevant to Sansa’s plotline, hence she said nothing at all in that meeting (did enjoy observing her gaping at her first look at a Giant though)
Obviously Jon is front and centre because he has to do the main talking as the man who would be leading the actual men they are asking for into battle (Davos is a Hand, show Sansa/book Rickon are trueborn figureheads)
That said they did get Sansa to open the talking with Lyanna Mormont
The other side of that is Jon is not talking to Blackfish/Tully’s or the Vale/LF at all, as this is Sansa’s arc and not directly linked to Jons arc
I suspect they later diverge and become distinct and along their book lines, eg Sansa in the RL with Tully/Vale forces quite possibly clashing with the Lannisters and Jon in the North heading off the early advances of the WW’s into Westeros
In essence Lyanna Mormont said it outright, Rickon is the only one who would be front and centre, there are issues with both of them as Sansa is trueborn but is now actually the estranged Lady Bolton and Jon is a Snow even if you are willing to believe the rez loophole making him a non-deserter,
Once you understand it as a tricky juggling act, you can put aside questions about Hollywood PC interference
Ginevra,
Is this a british thing?
As someone who speaks english as a 2nd language, I truly don’t get this things….
Yeah, I understand why the writers didn’t go there. I can’t imagine any good way it will go. They probably hoped that we’d just forget that watch deserters are beheaded in this series. 🙂 Anyway, I’m one of those who’s willing to go along for the ride despite being baffled by it initially.
Jaime could very well head north at Brienne’s prompting but there is an elephant in the room. Jaime is the reason Bran lost the use of his legs. Jon and Sansa aren’t aware of this but I think Brienne is (someone correct me if I’m wrong but I thought she was there when Catelyn confronted him about it).
I know this is going all the way back to the very first episode but it’s as if this was forgotten. No matter his reason for doing it (protecting Cersei), if Brienne knows that and Jaime joins the northern fight, how can she keep that information from Sansa?
Shaky loyalty at best.
I know I mentioned this a few times but it still drives me a bit nuts that this hasn’t been revealed and that Jaime still gets a pass.
Oy. Hate when a comment thread gets away from me. *Sighs* If only I didn’t have to sleep. 😉
*Goes back to read from where I left off*
Exactly.
Littlefinger is the option they’ve actually built up to have emotional payoff. Having her write to someone like the Manderlays, with so much turmoil, would make little sense. Anyway, they’ve already sent ravens to every unspoken for house, the Manderlays included.
Sean C.,
If this is the answer, that would be a bit wacky concerning Brienne´s character. Brienne is all about service, but not blind service for a House but rather loyal Service for a Person she deems worthy, as she oftentimes stated herself.
“I´m not serving the Starks, I´m serving Lady Sansa” or before that “I´m not serving the Tullys, I´m serving Lady Catelyn” (paraphrased, but Close to the original). I do believe that Brienne is mad about Jaime because he´s hindering her from helping Sansa, but not because she feels it´s part of her duty to recycle the old Tully/Stark Relations. I think she will stick to Blackfish because she knows that this is the morally right Thing to do and because it´s part of her promise to Sansa.
QueenofThrones,
Yeah, the morally-obliged angle is most likely the one Brienne is coming from, you´re right. This would also make sense for Jaime´s Story-arc as it may let him realise once again that he is used as a pawn in play where he isn´t the good guy, but an enforcer of the ones who are clinging to power based on their evil ways. If this new confrontation with Brienne can´t rekindle that feeling in him that he can do better than he is doing at the moment, nothing will (most likely). His unwillingness to fight Brienne may be the first indicator that he is realising again that he should be ashamed for the People he´s fighting for atm.
I’m not buying into the Jon vs. Sansa arc debate. But, as much as I’m loving this season, I agree that the treatment of Jon’s death and resurrection is leaving a lot to be desired. Even with only 3 episodes left, however, I remain hopeful.
Yeah this is all a tricky one, because the books have cleverly got the Northern Clansmen in Stannis’s Army who are there to “save Neds little girl” and then of course the Mormonts have just magically shown up when Stannis is re-taking Deepwood Motte (with more than 62 men)
Of course they had their concerns in the books but once they realised Jon was taking obviously money but also good behaviour wards etc and there was a Karstark/Thenn wedding etc
That said, in show circumstances, it makes sense for them to be discerning, Sansa is twice married after all. Jon is committed to the cause but he is a Snow so anyone prudent would ask those questions, even if they are already committed to the cause anyway, there’s being committed to the cause and then committing yourself to the plan which is two seperate things
Eg if Ser Rodrick was going round he would be getting treated differently
I am hoping to see more from the Glovers. He did raise legitimate issues about Robb etc, let’s not forget that despite “the North remembers Frey” Barbrey Dustin still has issues with Ned which go all the way back to Roberts rebellion
Don’t forget also, “62men” is a TV show thing where it is always slow going at first, and then there is always going to be setbacks either way
I am expecting we see more loyalty next week, have to look at it all as a two-week recruitment drive and I think that by and large it is going well-enough so far
Would love to see some of Mormonts 62 men stifle a similar camp burning attempt by Ramsays 20 good men again haha
RosanaZugey,
LOL
I do the same
I was so tired last night but made sure to post a comment before I slept so I knew where to continue off! hahah
Darkrobin,
I know!! I thought ‘Gendry’ too 🙁
So the bloody hand Bran saw in his greensight in his last episode was Arya.
Yeah. The prudent course is a liberal “amnesty” all around. Besides, they’ll need all the help they can get dealing with the White Walkers.
Which is something Cersei, for one, never really understood. She’s turning now to Olenna Tyrell for help, but out of a mix of desperation and schemes to use it to destroy the Tyrells.
I think you are right, we need a connection to Arya in all of this. But if Jaquen is testing the Waif, then this means there has to be a reveal about the purpose of Aryas training, because then it wasn’t what she and we thought it was. But I agree, it would be nice if somewhere in this would be an active part for Arya, but I don’t really see how she could pull this of on her own.
A red priest coming down the alley in the right moment would almost literally be deus ex. I don’t care about red priests, I don’t even think they have that power, at least most of them don’t seem to think so. This would set the worrying precedent of red priests standing by everywhere to revive main characters, whenever it’s convenient.
Yeah it gets tricky
I am really hoping for next week it gets discussed, Mel has not only been in the background at Wallsmoot, she’s completely missing from the Northern recruitment drive
I can see it making sense to raise all these questions now that we have Sandor having come back, and when his investigations shall we say into the curiously corrupted BwB (dare I say could it be :S…) members runs its course, we have a big thematic questions over what happens to people when they come back and how they are different
Of course given we are in the same location as Shireen burning so if there’s a time for all this talk between Davos and Mel etc and Jon rez next week would be it
I really hope Sansa wrote to anyone other than LF. Can not stand him for another second. I wanna get behind she wrote Jaime but after LM pooed on Sansa earlier about that and with Jaime acting like a simp for cersei again I doubt it. Blackfish, Brienne? Manderlys cont. to get mentioned. Hornwood maybe but doesn’t have that “it” factor. Greyjoys? No one is there. Maybe ser Royce??
I know! I thought we had Stannis’s ghost there for a second.
Hope thoros isn’t with that bwb group and he’s with LSH instead.
I’m wondering how feasible it would be to catch, cage and transport a Wight. They have zero sense of selfpreservation as shown when jumping off the cliffs while attacking.Wouldn’t they just keep attacking whoever/whatever is trying to catch/hold them ? Would need to be one impressive trick with a very solid cage.
Sam,
Okay you have a point and the writers probably didn’t mention the oathbreaking because there is no way Jon could have explained properly.But think of it this way:in peace time they might even care being the north and all but tbh who ever gives a shit about the night’s watch anyway lol westeros has given up on it.Plus they have mentioned that if someone wants they can get you out of it like with stannis’ offer or even Jon going away in season one.I’m pretty sure Robb wouldn’t have beheaded him.
Regarding Arya
Can’t always help but wonder about how the Syrio side of her pull to Braavos ties in with her Jagen side
Eg there’s something quite pointed in Syrio’s catchphrase
“There’s only one thing we say to death – Not Today”
Quite important for a main bodyguard to the First Sea Lord of Braavos, as this has the vibe of a direct challenge to the many-faced god and any Faceless Man. I personally love the idea that the Cat was glamoured and that by saying it was normal Syrio was proving his ability to see through disguise as his test
So with the stab wounds she is obviously staring death in the face
Of course we did have the question as to where Needle was, With stick and fists Arya was defeated but it may just be the Water Dancing that sees her overcome the Waif so would really love to see Arya stick the Waif to the pointy end
Of course hoping for Syrio Forell to jump out of the woodwork right after Sandor really would be too much to ask for, even if it would make me shit my brown coloured pants
I heard “attack” instead of “retake.”
Good points. The show here really opens up the weaknesses entailed in trying to cover so many widely separated characters and story arcs. The result is that few of them get the time they need to really work on their own terms.
Jon’s arc opened well this season through the first 3-4 episodes, but since then, it’s been like a Cliff’s Notes fly-by. It’s not just that all of these questions go unaddressed (at least onscreen); it’s that we’re not getting any real payoff any longer in Jon’s character in terms of how he’s coping with being alive again, and the reluctant crusade he’s being forced to mount.
If GOT were, say, 15-18 episodes per season, there would be enough screentime (probably) to develop all of this satisfactorily. But a) they don’t have the budget for that, and b) they are unwilling to trim out or down other major storylines, so we get this kind of short-shrifted treatment instead.
P.S. It’s *plausible* that Jon & Sansa would be out of their depth dealing with Northern feudal politics; they’ve had little direct experience with any of it, and they ARE bargaining from a position of extreme weakness. (Note that Jon is most successful and comfortable dealing with the Wildlings, whom he knows well and who know him.) But the result is to peel back the character growth both have had, in the absence of other scenes that balance that impression.
God, one can only hope! *Crosses fingers* I never know with this show. Their writing of Sansa and her storyline always seems to come with strings attached. It can never be pure forward momentum, or strictly “good” or “honorable” or “grown-up” or “positive”. If they move her forward, they always bring her back (sometimes in the SAME episode); or things that SHOULD be viewed as good always seem to come with caveauts (i.e. reunited with Jon, going to retake WF, yay!! But let’s make her lie to Jon and SEEM like she’s up to something nefarious). It’s all so exhausting. 🙁
In any event (swearing swords to her, or just gathering around her people who do what she wants), the show has not played this out, yet. That really leads me to believe that there’s still more coming, although…I can’t quite figure out who that would be or in what capacity. And with there only being 3 episodes left, I’m dumbfounded as to when all of these glorious moments are supposed to happen.
RG,
Agree with your analysis of Kings Landing players. I too noticed how the HS called the poor ‘they’ and used ‘us’ for the rich. Natalie Dormer was wonderful this episode. I think this was the first time since Margaery was introduced, that we see her showing weakness. In that scene with Loras, she was trying to be strong. But we can see her on the verge of tears when hugging Olenna. And then she hides it with a smile. Cersei/Olenna spat was also good to watch. Olenna writing some letter when Cersei approched her reminded me of season 5 when Cersei was pretending to write something serious to keep Olenna waiting. For the first time this season, I enjoyed the King’s Landing scenes.
It wasn’t relevant to the Ray character or show Sandor, and is far too lengthy to include in such a short episode. Sandor had way too much screentime as it is.
Ginevra,
Great to see I´m not the only one who thought that! I almost expected to hear a muttered “fewer” at the end of that scene 😉
Wimsey,
I’m thinking that this is directly a result of Jeor; he would want his sister/niece to know what was actually out there and what was really coming. He would have sent them news at least by the time that wight attacked him at Castle Black, if not before. IMO, anyway.
Are they in the UK? Just wondering because I’m British and I’ve lived my life in the UK and have never heard anyone British use the word “ass” in that context. That word means either a donkey or a stupid person, but not someone’s backside. It’s “arse” here. It was very out of place for Yara to say “ass” I thought.
But hey, minor detail.
Don’t forget also, 62 is equivalent to 620. 62 x strength of 10 mainlanders, if we are to believe Lady Mormont. And I believe her! As Ser Davos put it, “The Boltons are doomed.” LOL 😀
Ravyn,
true, but what he did say summed up the speech. While I would have loved more, at least it as something. Wonder if more of the speech happens in other characters’ scenes.
CC,
Someone last night mentioned Royce,telling him the truth about Lysa, and asking him for help. I like it – it would make a lot of sense writing that comment in
Bryan,
Glamoring, like Mel did? Wow that would be cool if she had that poer. Interesting idea tho..
SaveTheWolves,
Did you notice how all the people were looking at her? It was strange, no one was trying to help a young girl, they looked frightened of her, like those boys looked when they saw the FM….I really think its Jacquen.
But that is absolutely necessary. The first time we see the Starks ends with Ned leaving to cut off a Night’s Watch deserter’s head. It was a fundamental dramatic conflict with Jon in the first season, and it’s built into the premise of the show. For Jon to walk away from it all and have nobody care in the least is sloppy writing.
Yes, I have seen many with that theory. If Jaqen is posing as Arya, that fixes none of the plot holes. Why would Jaqen wish to die? Why would Jaqen allow the Waif to kill him? To prove a point? I think not. He likes Arya. He is testing the Waif. Yes. Yes. But he isn’t going to die to prove a point.
Ghosts Lunch,
Honestly – this whole thing with Jaquen and the FM has been strange.
In the first place, why was Jaquen a prisoner in season 2? Coincidentally at the right place at the right time where Arya was. He is a faceless man – why the eff was he a prisoner.
Its fishy to begin with, and we may see the result of all this after what has happened to Arya in this episode.
It did change him, before he was utterly loathsome, now he is less so, but he didn’t change from being utterly loathsome to being a paragon of knightly virtue- he’d like to fulfill his vow of saving the Stark girls- just so long as it doesn’t incovenience him personally too much.
As so many others have commented, the scene in Season 6 Ep 7 with Arya getting stabbed by the waif felt off–IF you accept that was actually Arya.
When you consider everything Arya’s been through in KL, the RL, and in Braavos especially with her FM training, does it really make sense she would make no effort at disguise or allow a person she doesn’t recognize to approach her?
Jaqen H’ghar’s intentions toward Arya have been confusing at times, but I’ve never had reason to question his ability to read people. It make zero sense for JH to allow the waif to kill Arya, if the FM are truly not supposed to kill someone they know/knew in real life. (As Arya has been told repeatedly.)
Given those two inconsistencies leads to a new conclusion–a girl has failed–and that girl is the waif.
What if at least one, if not all, of the “Aryas” we saw during the episode was a FM, possibly even JH himself?
It would then be perfect for the real Arya (wearing Needle?) to run into the bleeding fArya as she staggered down the street. As fArya lays dying, her face is revealed to be a FM–again, possibly JH. When Jaqen reveals his true face and asks her who she is, she replies Arya Stark. He then smiles, whispers valar morghulis and dies. Appropriately warned, Aria kills the waif in their true encounter.
Well, if the descriptions are real, that would certainly explain it. I felt like they delayed in revealing “No One” as the title of the 8th episode because they knew it would also confirm the leaked 9th and 10th episode titles.
I’m curious as to your reasons for thinking they are fake, especially if they are beyond the obvious fact that there is no confirmed source. If your reasons are spoilery, you could post them in the forum discussion here.
I think the question is “how” not why- he was undoubtedly a prisoner because he was arrested for killing someone- but “how”? Did he allow himself to be caught? Or is he actually human, they actually managed to capture him – he volunteered to join the NW because it would be easier to escape from them than from the jail cell/dungeon and he decided to stick around when he saw Arya Stark
Nevermind “ass”. I’m still trying to figure out how a woman can “fuck the tits off” another woman. Or have I misunderstood the definition of fuck all these years? 😉
What is dead may never die 😉
RosanaZugey,
I totally agree with you. I do have some questions that others have, but yes, lets see how she develops; she is new at this, is feeling her way, while at the same time is afraid to trust anyone. So….lets see how this plays out
Wight’s Natch,
There were several cues at the very beginning – when she walked up to the captain, she was much more self assurred, almost agressively so, tossing the coins giving a look I’ve never seen. She wasn’t acting like her Almost like someone with really good acting skills was doing it for her – wearing the same kind of think actor Robert wore on stage…..
Well, we know that Mormont and later Jon sent word of this to the rest of Westeros: and we also know that nobody is taking it seriously. If anyone is going to believe it, then it might be a young niece.
heh, so they would! However: how do they get caged wights? Hunting them would seem suicidal at this point. Moreover, many northerners would far rather believe that a caged wight is some sort of Wildling trickery than actually a wight: people have an amazing ability to discredit facts that they do not want to be true. Given everything that both the show and the books have developed, it is going to take the Wall being breached by wights to make people take Mormont’s warnings seriously.
I’ve already written my thoughts of the Arya scene here:
Clob,
I’m kind of amused reading the suggestions of what people think may have happened; Jaqen posing as Arya, coin bag, blood bladder fake-out, Arya put her face on someone else, etc.
I’m not going to believe the FM can just change their face, not to mention completely morph into any living person outside the House until I see it. That kind of negates needing to take faces from the hall. We’ve also seen that they remove the faces from the dead to put in the hall. Arya wouldn’t cut her face off to stick on a person that for some reason would go along with it just to fool the Waif. She was also definitely stabbed full blade to the handle so no coin bag or bladder prevented anything.
I admit Arya acted differently when she booked her passage. Another great performance by Maisie btw. Other than thinking she’d be safe among people in broad daylight I don’t know why she’d just walk around like that though. Post-stabbing I think she totally acted like Arya.
I see only two possibilities:
The most likely being that it was Arya and she’ll recover as I mentioned last night. Still wounded but healing several days later when the Waif finds her again. They had to make the knifing look bad so we’d have these questions.
The second is that Jaqen can totally morph into whomever he wants, not just change his face and not needing a face to do it. I question why he would do this rather than just take out the Waif himself though. Jaqen should know who the Waif is in disguise. Why would he test the Waif by being mortally wounded? I think this is a silly idea as a whole, but if they do it I’ll ignore the morphing and enjoy it nonetheless. 🙂
It seems to me from the trailer though, that in order to avoid this dilemma, Brienne helps the BF to escape (perhaps Jaime even agrees to this). I suspect Edmure commands the garrison to surrender and their lives are spared (per Jaimes oath to Cat).
Although this kinda blows my theory out the water that Brienne and Pod will hang at the end of the season after encountering TBWOB. The teaser shot of Sandor exacting vengeance on TBWOB also kinda rules out another surprise character returning.
A Brit could better answer, but “arse” is commonly used instead of “ass” in British English. In American English, we never say “arse” or almost never. But my British friends do say “ass” at least occasionally.
Ginevra,
Two points for me: first, the reference to what looks to be
in Ep 10. This is the main reason.
Secondly, we do not know if the North is in the next episode. The synopsis includes Sansa.
Thirdly, this originated in IMDb, which has never been reliable in any way and is filled with trolls. I might be wrong though, but my guess is they were fake.
Halfman,
But could it be addressed to Royce or LF? There is no name at the tope
ash,
Would that fit in with this year’s story?
(EDIT: Addressing it to anyone other than LF, that is.)
It’s possibly Royce but doubtful. The most obvious answer is LF and I don’t really see any reason for it to be anyone other than LF. Plus he turns up at WF later on as we’ve seen from the trailer.
Athelstane,
What if she sent a raven to the Karstarks, or more specifically, the Umbers to feel them out. Sansa was not 100% sold on that both of those houses had completely abandoned House Stark. Remember, Little John never kneeled for, or pledged allegiance to, the Boltons.
Just thinking out loud. I think writing to LF is too obvious and she has so much hatred for him now. Unless the point is that she has learned to put that aside for the greater good. As a viewer, it would be more satisfying to see her find another way – take back WF without LF. Sansa’s way of flipping a raven at LF.
Nymeria,
Im right there with you.
Ginevra,
He wouldn’t die. When he drank the potion in s5 finale, it turned out to be Arya who drank the potion. So if he is posing as Arya to test the Waif, it could end up being the Waif who gets stabbed, couldn’t it?
She said that the Umbers could hang, and she was not surprised about the Karstarks: no doubt she had heard what Robb had done.
“Obvious” is not a reason to think that it is wrong. This is not supposed to be a random mystery! But the fact that Sansa blames and hates LF is what makes it important to the story: Sansa needs to accept that sometimes you have to be allies with people that you do not like. This is a story about strange-bedfellow alliances, after all!
Jenny,
I think you hit the nail on the head. The Nights Watch might be a dead storyline. The only character that we know and care at all about, who is still at the Wall/Castle Black, is Edd, and I think he dies there. Anyone else of importance was removed from the area, you know… so they don’t get crushed.
jpwf,
yeah, I feel like he was there on purpose
Chad Brick,
Yes. Many viewers are right, it makes no sense. Therefore there has to be a reason. Lots of them have come up here, love the imaginative minds we have!
. So will Jaquen die now? Why was he willingly switching in for the target of an assassination he himself ordered? Seems like a totally pointless sacrifice to me.
Cock Merchant,
.
Rember the episode where Arya killed Merant? Jaquen appeared to die when he took poison. He didn’t….so I think theres some glamoring or magic going on
Sam,
This makes me wonder again WHAT WAS THE POINT OF HIS DEATH.
Seriously, it’s annoying AF. In the books, Jon prepares to leave before he’s killed. Meaning, it is possible for him to contemplate leaving the NW without dying. In the show, all they needed was to parallel that – Rickon caught by Ramsay instead of FArya – and he could consider leaving.
Now, it’s not even of consequence that he left the Watch! No one is asking him about it and no one cares. So, really, what the hell is the entire point?
I love this show but multiple reviewers have rightly pointed out that it has made zero impact at this point. If it was needed to get him from The Wall => out of the Watch, well, there were other ways to do that. And they haven’t even shown any discussion of it because no one has asked him “How could you leave the Watch” so, again, who the hell cares?
Apollo,
Hmm, does it really rule out this appearance only because Sandor is experiencing the encounter? I’m not sure, even though it of course is less likely…
Sam,
totally agree. Hope to see something that makes the death resurrection worthwhile and am optimistic we will
Ahhhhhh still not caught up, you guys talk too much! Gotta go; assuming there’ll be 500 more post when I get back. Later gator, Play nice.
Mrs. Podrick Payne,
You’re being totally irrational about this.
The show, I think quite brilliantly, picked the LEAST Stark people to take back Winterfell. That’s the amazing thing about the evolution of them. Jon, who is a bastard, who never felt he had a right to command Stark loyalty. And Sansa, who spent her early years running from being a Stark, then having to hide her Stark loyalties, taking other names, saying “I have always been a Stark.”
And you/we love the Starks, but they have been foolish. That’s the point GRRM makes. Ned was naive and died for his principle but he didn’t change anything. Robb was young and handsome and heroic but deeply selfish. Along with Catelyn, he took the loyalty of men for granted – they both acted deeply selfishly for their OWN family and their needs, not the lives of the men they asked to fight and die for them.
We feel for the Starks, but the Starks have been plenty foolish. And as the show pointed out, the North DID fight for Ned Stark. They died for Robb. Will they die again for Ned’s bastard and the daughter who was engaged to Joffrey, married Tyrion, and then married Ramsay?
Ginevra,
Arse is British English, Ass is American English. They mean the same thing. In British English an ass solely refers to a donkey. There will, of course, be British people who say Ass when they mean Arse, but they’re just copying Americans, and is quite rare, because if you did it face-to-face you would be (gently) mocked. The internet is a very different story. It is not part of the language by any means, and in a medieval-type setting like Westeros feels totally out of place.
It wasn’t the only Americanism in the episode, e.g. Goddamn, so it isn’t the only instance that slightly bugged me. For me these contemporary phrases feel totally out of place, and take me out of the story. They are only a minor quibble though, and I loved the episode overall.
Wimsey,
Perhaps, esp if she trusts Royce more than LF
Nadia,
I think more will come down the road. If Jon truly has come back as Azor Ahai, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he needed to die and come back. Jon 2 has been different than Jon 1, beyond his hair.
A day later and it’s the Arya stuff that still has me scratching my head. What the hell is going on in Braavos? Braavosi people don’t seem the type to just ignore a bleeding young girl walking the streets. There was just something off about Arya’s scene and I am hoping it is explained next episode.
I do believe, like many others, that Jaqen is testing The Waif as much as Arya. He specifically told her not to let her suffer and she stabbed her in the gut and twisted the knife. If she wasn’t going to let her suffer, she might have just come up behind her and broken her neck or something.
There is something fishy going on there for sure. It almost made me wonder if we’d see Beric and Thoros pop up in Braavos rather than the RL and save Arya in the way they “saved” you know who in the books. That’s another head scratcher. How the hell is Thoros still affiliated with this bastardized version of the BWB? Or has he gone rogue? OMG these last 3 episodes can’t get here soon enough. Still #PrayingforRickon even though I am fearing it’s not going to help 🙁
Halfman,
I just feel like if it was going to LF, they might have showed us that when she was writing it. I think they left it a mystery on purpose.
Of course, if it was to LF, wouldn’t surprise me one bit.
Not entirely, but if TBWOB are involved in his storyline (and alleged spoilers are indeed correct), then I can’t imagine them being used elsewhere as a plot device, and that includes the hypothesised RW2. Unless Aryas return to the Riverlands aligns with his storyline, and they lead them together.
Although- a counter point is, The Hound must be destined for big things plot wise, otherwise why spend so much screen time on a secondary character? So you never know 😉
Nadia,
I could not disagree more. Sansa is the most courageous and compelling of the Stark children, and the one most similar in nature to Ned. In her Vale storyline, which should have been filmed in its entirety for the show, but that is a gripe for another post, we see that she is kind to Robert Arryn and very canny about getting him to eat. She is also very trusting of new people like Myranda, just like Ned when he reaches KL. Finally, the inescapable parallel is that Littlefinger is Ned’s primary antagonist in KL, as he is now Sansa’s. LF is responsible for getting Ned arrested and removing his agency. LF is likewise responsible for preventing Sansa from meeting her professional potential. (Excuse my English, it is my second language).
ygritte,
Literally every piece of leather any character on the show is wearing is a dead animal.
I woke up exceptionally annoyed with Sansa’s storyline again and how this rolling lie seems to be adding tension for tension’s sake. It is as if D&D just decided, “eh can’t have Jon and Sansa work together too easily, need to keep this brewing lie between them.”
Here’s the thing. I think she WILL tell Jon. This isn’t some anti-Jon powerplay, and I think he’ll know about the Vale. She probably just didn’t want him to refuse.
At the same time, I think Jon is going to be angry with her. You can already see in this episode, he’s peeved with her. He cringes when she starts talking to Lord Glover, but most critically when they’re riding with Davos and then just the two of them talking, he shakes his head at her anti-Davos snark, and then he just comes out and slaps her down about it. He’s not really happy with her as it is. Even when she does come clean, even when she says “oh hey got you an army,” you think Jon’s going to be happy with the multiple lies she told?
And the worst part of all this is that she’s gone crawling back to LF. This was obviously going to happen, because I’ve said repeatedly that her arc in the book and quite likely in the whole story revolves around him. But to have refused him and now gone back and begged him puts her in a position of weakness AGAIN.
Here’s my real problem: what is she promising LF? AGAIN without consulting Jon!!!! Her letter says “and I shall see to it that you”. If she’s promising something to him for his help, well LF’s help doesn’t come without strings.
In the end, how is there ANY development for Sansa? She lies to her brother about LF, then she goes back and has to ask LF to save her again.
Then again, I think it’s clear that Jon and Sansa are together only temporarily. In the end, she’ll go off with LF – or he’s Warden of the North when Jon goes North/fights the WWs.
I know many seem disappointed that the broken man speech was not used. I think it would have been a bit long in the episode.
I do however think having Ian McShane speak it for one of those animated DVD extras would be perfect. You know, the type they did to tell some history on the houses and the different religions of Westeros. He could give the full narration in that wonderful voice of his.
SansaFarts,
That’s your interpretation as a Sansa fan. But I think the show, GRRM, the books, the actor have made it clear that in many ways Sansa was the least Stark. She made decisions to the detriment of her family. She was always said to be more Cat’s daughter, more Tully than Stark. Symbolically, she lost her direwolf right at the beginning, and then she lost her name two times over, becoming Lady Lannister and Lady Bolton. In the books, she becomes Alayne.
You might love her character and there’s no doubt she’s grown both in the books and the show. But the whole point is she is very much the least Stark of the children, that’s always been the case, and perhaps even know she’s not a “pure Stark” as it was put. But she’s reclaiming a name that was both taken from her and she gave up, just like Jon is taking up a claim for a name that was never given to him.
He never drank. Arya hallucinated most of that after drinking what she’d been given.
Ginevra,
He never drank? So what we saw in the episode didn’t really happen?
When Jamie was issued the order, I posted last week that I think that he is going to turn on Cersi and support the Blackfish.
Also, I’ve said it, and I’ll say it AGAIN….I believe that Arya is DREAMING.
She had Needle in the last epi. She went through all of this to find, and protect Needle, she wouldn’t lose it again. Also she isn’t going to go down like that!
I think next epi she will wake up and will be waiting in the corner to take on the waif!
Nadia,
Hi, Nadia,
I agree that Jon is not a real Stark but for Sansa, remember she did not choose to become Lady Lannister, nor to lose her agency at KL. That was all Ned and Catelyn’s fault and she was left a prisoner forced to become a Lannister. Then, Littlefinger chose the name of Alayne for her when he kidnapped her! That was his mother’s name. Because of Arya’s selfishness, she lost Lady, her Wolf, again, not her fault! While the rest of the Stark kids escaped the Lannisters and retained their agency and decided their own fates (Jon, Bran and Rickon to the North, Robb to war and Arya with Yoren, then Bravos, etc), Sansa has been a prisoner, tortured and unable to choose her own path. If it were not for the love LF bore Catelyn, she would still be at KL, likely dead after being blamed for Joffrey’s death. The other Starks have been free and Sansa has been the wolf in chains from Jojen’s vision.
Lady Ashara Rowan,
That would pretty much be a shark-jumping moment.
Nadia,
Please don’t take this the wrong way, but there’s no point in getting so angry… We don’t yet know how this is gonna pan out. We’ve debated this to death, and I do agree that somethings amiss in regards to her not telling Jon the whole story but I do have a feeling she has an ace up her sleeve somehow. And she’s not gonna end up with LF with only 13 eps remaining, she’s gonna kill him in ep 10. 😉
Just like to add my name to the Lyanna Mormont fanclub! Shame her and Smalljon Umber are on opposite sides, they’d be a formidable team. Perhaps they can have the normal speech, non-rhyming equivalent of a rap battle. (Not buying a double bluff by the Umbers, no way they’d hand Rickon to someone they thought had killed their own father in cold blood, even if they don’t know just how crazy Ramsay actually is, it’s just too risky.) Oh and lots of internet points to whoever it was who said the Frey guy’s facial injuries could be due to a golden hand from Jaime (think it was in the advance photos thread).
Everything is building nicely towards several amazing scenes which would all have been episode 9 showstoppers in earlier series. Cersei is a volcano of crazy and vengeance ready to go off big time in KL; Team Scumbags (Boltons and co) vs Team KickAss (everyone who opposes them); Riverlands looks like it’s going to kick off in more than one location; Meereenese madness and probably others I’m too excited to remember right now. I’m thinking the relative lull in deaths in the last two episodes is not going to last much longer. Hopefully we’ll all be looking like this – in a good way – for the next three episodes, certainly for 9 and 10 ? ? ?
Sean C.,
Agree. No way is it a dream. Too cheesy.
There are clearly powers going on with the FM/Jaqen that we don’t totally understand yet, and this is just another example of it.
1) D&D love to show us something mysterious/magical and then come back and use it again later on. Lord of Light resurrections, for example. Last season Jaqen did some body switching without needing faces from the hall. I think he’s doing that again.
2) People are talking about how Arya acted when she booked passage, so confident etc. Ummm, where would Arya have gotten 2 bags of silver/money from? She had nothing except Needle, unless she sold Needle, but that seems out of the question.
I think Jaqen is behind this, but who knows, maybe it was her, and she gets stitched up and goes on. That would be disappointing though and wouldn’t make much sense.
Could it be the waifs dream/hallucination? The actions of Arya seem in line with the way the waif views Arya IMO.
What do you all think is more likely? (presuming that Varys’ old birds are not good children 😀 and that Cersei’s storyline will end with her in charge again)
1) Cersei puts a shitload of wildfire behind the Sept of Baelor, killing all her enemies (and some of her “friends”) during the trial by combat, AND uses Qyburn’s new littlebirds to murder Kevan, Pycelle, Mace and some other high-profile dude
2) Cersei puts a shitload of wildfire behind the Sept of Baelor, killing alle her enemies (and some of her “friends”) during the trial by combat, BUT Varys’ littlebirds murder a lot of people, among them Qyburn, Mace, Pycelle, Kevan
3) Nothing of the sort, the trial by combat ends with Sandor killing the Mountain, and Cersei ends her season dead or captive again
I’m not normally a show basher, but the way the show has written Sansa is wrecking the Northern story for me.
Main problem is that Sansa hasn’t grown, despite “graduating” from Littlefinger’s School for Young Gamers. This is in stark contrast to her siblings: Arya shows off what a ninja she is. She’s not superwoman, but she’s good. Bran shows off his prophetic abilities. Again, he makes huge, costly mistakes, but he is a prophet. Not so for Sansa, who spends the entirety of season 5 getting victimized.
Given season 5, I was hoping that season 6 Sansa would be different, more mature, smarter…but no.
– Sansa tells Littlefinger that he goofed, then sends him and the Vale away, when her goal should be winning back Winterfell by playing the game. A politically savvy person would not allow emotion to override reason the way Sansa did in that scene. This is the kind of thing the emotional, young Sansa would have done, and she’s still at it, years later.
– Sansa began Game as a person who couldn’t judge character: She trusted JOFF and CERSEI. You’d think that the new Sansa would have gained such abilities, as knowing people is key to manipulating them, but no. Of all the people she could distrust, Sansa chooses Davos and Jon, two of the most trustworthy characters on the show. I understand that Sansa has been through hell, is finding it hard to trust, but, again: letting emotion override reason is not how good politicians play the game. I expected growth from her, and I see none.
– Sansa began Game as a sentimental person who confused chivalric ideals with reality…and she hasn’t changed. She hopes for Northern support, because “The North remembers,” which is an idealistic view of the northern character. Then there’s her “but you promised the Starks!” which no longer flies, given what the North and the Starks have been through. As a result, both Mormont and Glover humiliate her. Again, no growth.
…so if Sansa keeps her raven to Littlefinger a secret from Jon and Davos, making it impossible for them to include the Vale in their plans, forcing them to send 2,000 men to their deaths, I will probably break something.
Ok, I am going to be nice here but how exactly was it Arya’s selfishness that got Lady killed? I am just bursting with fruit flavor to know how you’ve arrived at this opinion.
Sansa has grown immeasurably. However, she is very much still growing: and stories come from how the main characters evolve!
This is literally and figuratively a wing and a prayer. Sansa will not know if the plea is going to get a response until the Vale arrives or doesn’t arrive. It is better to not get their hopes up at this point. This will be the cavalry arriving in the knick of time: but in this case, we just saw the cavalry summoned. Gun hung!
However, Sansa has learned a valuable lesson here. “Loyalty” is not a one way street: a house can forfeit it if they do not live up to their obligations. Robb’s (and Jon’s and her own) actions cost them the loyalty of most of the Northern Houses. Now she has to earn it back.
maria,
Hi, Maria,
Sansa was very young when she trusted Joffrey and Cersei, and also, she was told she had to marry Joff, so she had to make the best of things and get along with him and his difficult mother. She was smart enough to trust Ser Dontos, who via Littelfinger rescued her from KL. She was also smart about trusting Margarery and the Queen of Thorns, though wary at first. She trusted Brienne whom we know is good. I think that there will be a schism between her and Jon because Littlefinger is her primary antagonist and her story is entwined with his, and so for this reason, the reason, Jon and Davos (and probably Melisandre and Brienne) have to be killed off so Sansa can rejoin Littlefinger and become the Younger More Beautiful Queen of Prophecy. I forget where, but I read that Sansa is one of the three primary characters, according to GRRM. I’m so glad! I don’t want her to die! Even though D&D always try to make her seem dumb, her scenes are the best!
Not sure if this is an ok thing to do (mods, feel free to delete if its not) but I saw something on the Unsullied post that I don’t think any of us Sullied folk have thought of, and thought I might share it
orange,
That can’t use that whole speech its too long. I think what he said is pretty much what the speech says. I agree with you its a fantastic piece of writing and it would be fun if McShane was taped reading the whole thing for us. But its not going to work that way on a show.
It amazes me how after all this time the majority of people apparently continue to think in black and white when it comes to Got. The precious, can’t-do-wrong- Starks against the evil Lannisters. And everyone who dares not to die fighting for the Starks is a villain.
Can someome explain how can you say that Jaime’s oath is to fight alongside Starks in order to recapture Winterfell? When exactly-books or show-has he sworn such an oath? And how exactly Jaime helping the Starks reclaim.Winterfell would make any kind of sense!??? They are enemies! They fought a war!!! Why would Jaime fight alongside them? Do you think that the precious Stark, if the situation were reversed, would help Jaime reclaim Castle Black????
Jaime’s oath was to rescue Sansa and Arya and he fulfilled that oath when he sent Brienne to look for Sansa and when Brienne, armed with Jaime’s sword, helped Sansa. He has no oath to fulfill anylonger. AND I fail to see how not risking his men to reclaim Winterfell, a fight which by no means is his, makes a vilain out of him!!!!
No, that is completely wrong. The Valemen are at Moat Cailin, and there’s every reason to think Littlefinger will come, since that’s exactly what he wanted to do in the first place. There is absolutely no reason to keep that a secret when Jon is intent on marching his army into danger.
Mescalinic,
I think 4 – she loads up the wildfyre all over the place, and once the hound beats the mountain in the trial by combat (and she is sentenced to something terrible) she pulls the trigger on the explosion.
No, it’s completely correct. Sansa will not know if they are going to make it until they do. After all, she basically told LF to piss off forever last time: and if she’s remotely human (and Sansa is very human), then she has to be dreading the possibility that they either will not come. So, they need to plan on fighting with what they have got because there is zero guarantee that they are getting any more aid.
Now, you and I know that LF will leap at the chance to do this. We might not know why the heck he is doing all of this, but he has some weird game plan: and he was setting this up from the start so that he could pull this off. However, Sansa does not know this: she knows nothing of what he told Cersei or the Vale Lords. She spurned his offer, and now she must think that it is too late to take him up on the offer.
I suppose you think that it was Tyrion who conspired with the Tyrells, stole poison from Pycelle’s store and put it in Joffrey’s wine.
And “Sansa lost Lady due to Arya’s selfishness?” At least blame Robert, Cersei and Ned if you want to save Sansa the blame. The GoT season one that you watched must have had Arya and Mycah torturing Joffrey instead of Sansa lying to keep Joffrey’s love and not caring for Mycah’s life? Sansa put all the blame on the Hound for Mycah’s death, still not seeing Joffrey’ evilness. I like Sansa too, and I hate what D&D did to her character arc, but I envy how much you have absorbed your favorite character in misremembering things.
What if Tomen strait up killed Cersi? He is lost to the faith, she gets to a point where he no longer recognizes her as his mother cause she has lost it. She does something terrible and Tomen kills her. I couldn’t think of something any more painful to Cersi.
It is not that it “makes sense” from some literal perspective, but that it “makes sense” from the perspective of people that fail a promise often want to make up for it in some way. Jaime failed his promise to Catelyn. Old Jaime would not have cared. However, “I grew a soul” Jaime seems to take these things much more seriously.
This is not to say that Jaime will do it. It is to say that if he does, then we can look back to his arc and say: “OK, I can see why someone like he is now in his situation would do that.”
(Personally, I doubt that this will happen now: but I still consider it a possibility.)
So glad to see your level-headedness, Daughter of Winter!
Wimsey,
Wishful thinking, but if there is a shred of truth in ‘Sansa learning to play the game’ speeches that Sophie and showrunners have been trumpeting since season 4, she should kill Littlefinger once they have taken Winterfell. I’m sure Yohn Royce won’t mind. Petyr may control Sweetrobin, but the soldiers follow Yohn Royce, and sweetrobin will not be at the battlefield.
So, what do we think the odds are on Lancel surviving “I choose violence”? Imagine Kevan finding out Cersei’s pet has killed (or very seriously injured) his son?
Spoilers from the series trailers and this next episode preview
But much more importantly, Lancel has obviously decided that the pious life is too hard on his tootsies as he’s now wearing sandals indoors. Lightweight! 😉
Hodors Bastard,
That’s one thing that bugs me about Jon. Whenever the wild lungs come up he never really reiterates the greater threat. Fist of the First men and Hardhome! The real threat is the dead. They won’t know if you don’t say.
Exactly. We see Jaqen pull out a bottle we think is for Arya, and then he drinks – or at least that’s what we see. We never see Arya drink. And yet she sees two Jaqens and two Aryas. And then she goes blind.
Does a girl have two faces? Does a man? If a man can take any face he wants to without giving the gift of mercy, without first taking the life, without first taking the face, then what is the point of the Hall of Faces? Why would a man scrub thousands of bodies? Why would a man peel thousands of faces? Why would a man collect and store thousands of faces in the Hall of Faces?
Yes, glamoring works in the red religion, but we have seen no evidence that the FM possess this gift. If they did, why the Hall? Also, even those who have possessed the gift of glamor have used a ruby red necklace to do so.
Clearly the established magic of the Faceless Men is that they give the gift of mercy to those who want it in exchange for the face, which they’ll later use as a disguise. The faces are needed as part of the disguise because otherwise there would be no need for half of the work the House of Black and White does.
We know Arya took something to make her blind but we never see it. It makes the most sense that whatever blinds her also makes her hallucinate the extra Jaqen and Arya, as well as Jaqen dying.
I could be wrong. This could be a plot hole. But I hope not.
I really can’t see that happening. He even states in the trailer that his prime motivation is Cersei, and that he’d kill every Tully if it meant getting back to her. So I really can’t see him marching their forces north to help the Starks as this is in direct opposition to Cersei’s wishes.
I’ve been saying this for months, it’s soooo gonna happen in ep10. She’ll outplay LF in the finale with Royce assisting her. They’ve already foreshadowed his hatred of LF this season. Guns hanging and all that crap. And we have the GOHH prophecy of course.
KeeperOfOaths,
Fuck Jamie – we don’t need him for Winterfell. Just have Brienne or Blackfish strike him down and move a long.
HunterMac87,
The witch told Cersei that her children would all die before her and she would lose everything that she loves. I believe this will happen and would be interesting to see her unravel. This would be the ultimate torture to Cersei. Tommen dies. Jamie dies. She is left utterly alone and isolated. If this doesn’t happen, I will be disappointed.
Dee,
Agree. I think the only thing he is still useful for is to cause pain to Cersei when he dies.
Boston Snow,
For sure
Boston Snow,
Boston Snow,
Well, we’ll see.
One thing I do believe, she’s not going anywhere. She’s not dying.
Moondoor,
This could be a very strong possibility!
Wimsey,
Compare Sansa to her siblings. Arya still can’t beat the Waif, but she can fight and kill. Bran makes huge mistakes, but he is a prophet. Sansa was also supposedly educated: Remember her feathery gown at the end of season 4? The show makers and Turner have been talking about “the new Sansa” for two years now, but they’re not showing her. ita that Sansa may have learned something from Glover and Mormont. Problem is, she brought nothing to those meetings, and was humiliated as a result. Learning doesn’t preclude the ability to contribute. At this point, Sansa should be contributing (and learning).
SansaFarts,
ita that Sansa is not 100% off judging character. Last season, she trusted Theon, and she was right. My problem is I’m not seeing growth that matches that of her siblings; instead, her ability to read people is hit and miss, while her ability to manipulate is nonexistent. Her inability to trust Jon and Davos is a major mistake which can have horrifying consequences for Jon, the wildlings, and Mormont and her 62 men.
aabe,
Oh no, it was Littelfinger and Olenna that killed Joffrey but you cannot Sansa for that! She had not yet gone from pawn to player! She was wearing the hairpiece and that’s it. As for Lady the wolf, Arya provoked Joffrey and then humiliated him. As for Micah the butcher’s boy, his life is not worth as much as Sansa’s, just like we know Jeyne Poole’s isn’t or Pretty Pia’s. Even the non-Sansa fans can agree the rape of Sansa was the worst violence the show has shown!
As for Sansa summoning Littlefinger and the Vale army, well, it’s unfortunate that Jon will have to be sacrificed but Sansa is the Queen of prophecy and Ned Stark’s heir.
You cannot blame her for neglecting to tell Jon about the Vale army. She’s gone from Pawn to Player. Tywin didn’t tell everyone everything, either.
maria,
Arya can’t beat the Waif? Interesting.
Most recently we saw the Waif handle Arya. An episode or two before that, we saw Arya finally beat the Waif. Did the Waif get better or Arya get worse?
Maybe Arya let the Waif beat her the most recent time so the Waif thinks she can beat her anytime she wants. False sense of security.
Arya is setting her up for when it counts the most.
Boston Snow,
they will fight in the dark
it is known
My new favorite character,Lady Lyanna Mormont.
She and the 62 gonna kick some Bolton ass very soon(I hope).
Henry Gordon,
Time. Could easily take 10 minutes of show time to do the full thing.
I missed it, but didn’t mind it too much.
Lyanna mentions that her mother died fighting for Robb. Was she killed at the Red Wedding?
Sue the Fury,
A=W theory confirmed. 😛
Jinx47,
On the show, probably.
Lady Ashara Rowan,
If D&D use this old overused trope, I will be very very put out
Wimsey,
Excellent point. Sansa is LEARNING. And she now knows that she can’t really trust littlefinger so she’ll have some sort of plan in place. At least I hope that. And I hope the Maderlys show up cuz everyone wants some Frey pie.
Another week begins and Lord Parramandas is back for his review. Well to be honest, considering that the exams are approaching, I wasn’t even sure if I would be able to write a review. But don’t worry. Sooner or later, the review will show up.
Again, I can describe this episode as “Calm before the Storm” and again, the build-up scenes were pretty good.
Ray/Sandor Clegane: I absolutely LOVED the opening and they managed to reintroduce the Hound as the main character in his own storyline instead of through a shocking reveal in someone else’s storyline. It somehow reminded me of Jacob’s introduction in LOST (my favorite TV show). Brother Ray’s presence was simply amazing. He is no septon Meribald and he is no Elder Brother. On the other hand, he is a cheerful and lighthearted person and I love the fact that they didn’t give him septon robes. Like I said many times before, I don’t care about broken men’s speech at all and I will probably never understand the love for it. I found it really dull in the books and it contributed almost nothing to the storyline itself, unlike the one we got from Jaime. I’m sure that many show-only watchers would be bored as well. Back to brother Ray: Considering that he only appeared in one episode and I was sad when he died, this can simply mean that Ian McShane’s performance was as perfect as it should be (and again I would compare him to Jacob from LOST). Also, was that Lem?
The North
Another confirmed death – lady Maege died fighting Robb’s war. Little Lyana was perfect. Nothing more to say. As it concerns lord Golver, I liked the bit that the Boltons helped him liberate WF and I can understand his reasons. This is still GoT and the characters are grey. Another small bit, was the wildling elder the same one we’ve seen at Hardhome? Thanks God that I included him in my Character apperianceslist.
King’s Landing: The tension is still rising…. I wonder what will happen to Olenna… I also have to praise septa Unella. She brings such an amazing presence without speaking a word.
Riverrun: I can honestly say that I’m not a fan of this stuff in the books, mostly because of all filler that happened. But on TV, I was pleasantly surprised with it. The hanging scene was hillarious and I like the fact that Black Walder was given some more lines. He was mostly in the background in season 3. While Blackfish/Jaime confrontation was basically the same as in the books, I really loved the soundtrack in that scene.
Volantis: …Yara is bisexual… Nothing else to say.
Braavos: What the … just happened? If Arya was truly stabbed, she won’t get very far and considering that she is running away in next episode, this couldn’t have happened, could it? No, I don’t think it was Jaqen as someone else suggested and I don’t think he is just testing the Waif. Arya violated (again) a sacred rule and she now knows too much to be just let away. I perfectly understand that the FM cannot afford that and that they want her dead. Like someone suggested, she could as well be dreaming, considering that she blew the candle in previous episode…
And now the verdict: Like I said, this episode was again a good build-up episode and is pretty much tied with the one from previous week. So the rating would again be a good 8 and this episode earned its place one step ahead of the previous episode (mainly because of brother Ray and Sandor Clegane), so I placed the episode on rank 30 before Blood of my Blood (rank 31) and behind Mockingbird (rank 29).
Well, that would be all for this week. I sincerely hope I will be able to continue writing my reviews in future weeks and I don’t think I will be much on this site due to upcoming exams. Now if you don’t mind, I’ll return to studying spectroscopy and physical chemistry….
Anyone else get a Lady Stoneheart feeling seeing Ray hanged? Like now the brotherhood is just going around killing people w/ no trial? Kind of a change of MO…
The only reason I can think of is to use the Broken Man speech at the very end as a benediction to the devastation.
Ok guys, I’d like to hear your opinion on this (no leaks, no spoilers, just speculation).
Several people mentioned how that Arya scene seemed somehow weird or odd, and I felt the same. I was always thinking about Jaqen being involved somehow, but in the back of my mind there was something working – I tried to remember where I had seen the way Arya is moving before, walking with her hands behind her back… and this is what I was looking for:
IMAGE
I won’t even start talking about the clothes both of them are wearing… well, maybe after all it’s just a Braavosi custom 😉 .
The cool kids are now calling it a climbing-under-the-dumpster moment. It’s 2016!
Is this comment intended to make fun or light of a real person’s sexual assault?
I’m excited to see the BastardBOWL plays out. They need to use the Wun Wun very strategically; he is their ace in the whole. It would be sweet if they smithed him some armor or a big shield or something.. though im sure that is a little too fantasy like for the way the show plays out. But im really excited for that, hopefully it is done well!
What? It’s a well-known Walking Dead reference that had nothing to do with assault and everything to do with a cynical manipulation of the audience.
HunterMac87,
I agree, some armor would be cool. The Boltons have a shitton of spearmen, I don’t want any of them touching Wun Wun.
Ginevra,
And granted it’s well short of an accusation but the suggestion is disgusting enough that you could have taken the 8 seconds to Google “climbing under the dumpster” before throwing it out there.
Loved the episode…a great setting the chessboard episode for the blockbusters to come.
The Hounds scenes were great….beautifully shot but the only criticism was I felt they spent too long on his scenes- he is a secondary character after all. UNLESS….there are great things in store for him. Ray did mention this, so a hefty piece of foreshadowing there. It’s clear from the teaser that he wipes out TBWOB but I get the feeling there must be more to it than that (certainly not Cleganebowl…thank god that awful theory has been put to bed). Could his path cross with Arya perhaps when he returns to Westeros? If TBWOB survive, I’m curious what their purpose is moving forward as this (surely) eliminates the possibility of leading the RW2 and kinda puts to bed my pet theory about Brienne/Pods fate at the end of the season with TBWOB (sigh).
Loved the fact the Marg got the QoT outta town, and whilst I’m sorry to see her go, I’m so relieved she’ll live to see another day. I can’t help feeling that the HS has set Marg up though…surely if the QoT high-tails it out of dodge, then he’ll realise that she’s been tipped off? And her parting piece of shade at Cersei was fantastic, like two old cats hissing in the alley. Her sitting with the quill was great contrast to the earlier season’s scenes with Cersei/ Tywin proving triumphant. Go Olenna!
Riverrun was beautifully shot- that set is really impressive and great to see the Blackfish return. I’m guessing he escapes with Brienne next week.
The scenes in the North could have been better IMO but they served their purpose-lil Lyanna was great but I was really distracted by Stannis’ ghost sitting beside her. I know there’s much debate on Sansa’s motivations but I’m tired of it so not gonna even comment.
I think Yara may now be on of my favourite characters. I loved her “man-up” talk to Theon, she truly cares for him though and it was delight to see her bring him to his feet (almost anyway). Her quip at the end was hilarious (and in such bad taste considering how she promised to be tactful over Theons “status”). I love the fact they made her gay; it fits the profile of her character so well on the show. There were approx. 9 breasts in that scene now, as well as some girl on girl action (cos let’s face it, that’s what lesbians do, folks) so I’m guessing the fem-police require at least 5 cocks in compensation.
As for Arya’s scenes- I’m as stumped as everyone else and agree that it’s probably J’aqen posing as Arya. She was way too cocky and composed and her assault betrayed ALL of her training over the last 6 seasons. It just didn’t add up. But again I was distracted by Pyat Pree stabbing her! I do feel they should’ve left her stabbing as the end of episode cliff-hanger though. It would’ve blown the lid off the internet (if we hadn’t seen those photos of her filming the canal scenes).
Sooo hyped for next week!
Okay, first off – the Hound. I am envisaging that we have begun the build up to the war against the white walkers and that for this to happen we might get a GREATEST WARRIOR + VALYRIAN SWORD match-up process. A newly responsible Hound is certainly high on my list to be one of these heroes. Unless Sam is going to study valyrian steel making then he has one sword that needs to go to a hero.
PLOT POINT 1: Im a little confused and need to rewatch season 5 but – who does know that Sansa was married to Ramsay? Did the Bolton’s announce it to the North or did it stay under the radar? Cersei doesnt know she is in the north? Why not? Jaime doesnt we can see. If Brienne and Jaime get to meet is Jaime GOING ROGUE with the Lannister army? Im envisaging things going badly with Jon’s army (LIttlefinger turns up but fights with Ramsay?) and all looks lost until Jaime + Brienne + Blackfish march up by surprise
The Blackfish does not know Sansa is in the north? I have the feeling the whole point of the parlay was we get to hear Blackfish reminding Jaime of his oath….
BUT… PLOT POINT 2: I’m also unsure how the Blackfish knows of Jaime’s oath. Was this some generally widely known and discussed thing?
“But at least we got that reminder of Catelyn, and Jaime’s vow to send the girls back. That should lead to an interesting discussion with Brienne next week.”
Everybody who shipped Jaime/Brienne has been cooing about a reunion between the two. The shippers are going to be a disgruntled group. He won’t remember his kindly feelings to Brienne, he’s likely to blame her for the loss of his hand. The preview showed a confrontation with Brienne, with Jaime saying something like “I love Cersei, and if I have to kill every Tully that ever lived to get back to her, I will.” Which goes with what I’ve been saying: he has Cersei back in his blood, and everybody else be damned, just like when he was younger. Which doesn’t bode well for Sansa, does it, being the daughter of a Tully?
In the mood he’s been in since returning to Kings Landing with poor dead Myrcella, the “we’ll take EVERYTHING there is,” mood, I wouldn’t be surprised if
They continue to squander the immense potential of a death-rebirth arc. At this point not even a big battle is going to salvage it. That’s just one episode of no character study. Just constant action. From the looks of it even the central mystery that is
What a waste of potential.
Also there’s absolutely no reason for Sansa to still keep the truth about the Vale army from Jon. Telling him would help things immenselym especially with his decision making. So unless she has an ulterior motive, she should fess up.
Even if she doesn’t want to implicate herself with Littlefinger, she can sell it like ‘my cousin Sweetrobin is in charge of the Vale army and is willing to help us.’ So many of Stark loyalists will die in vain because of her unnecessary scheming.
I see what you’re doing there 🙂
The Mannis would be proud of ye.
Thronetender,
This is one reason I am absolutely loving Season 6, the revisiting of conflicts past is so entertaining to watch when you have all these characters converging on one another. Brienne vs. Jamie will be brilliant!
Jamie needs a reality check, I am fed up listening to him proclaim is undying devotion to his sister. When will he realise she is the poison depriving him of actual growth?
I read a comment referring to Cersnitch killing Tommen accidentally, serving as a catalyst for Jamie severing ties with her. Why do I see him overlooking this and running back to her? Why do I envision him not caring much? In the books he doesn’t really feel an intrinsic connection to any of his children.
They were born together and they’ll die together.
Thronetender,
“That should lead to an interesting discussion with Brienne next week.”
Indeed! But just as interesting would be what Jaime will (hopefully) tell Brienne of Littlefingers recent mission from Cersei. Thats s juicy piece of meat that needs to be shared with Sansa.
Did you notice he was back in the last episode?
Stannis at House Mormont
Sinequanone,
In S5 ep6 (Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken) Littlefinger arrives back in KL at Cersei’s request and tells her that Sansa is to be married to Ramsay, pretending that it’s nothing to do with him. That’s when he gets her to give him permission to use the Vale army to pile into the fight for the North (which at the time is Stannis vs Boltons). It’s one of his finest triple-crossing-WTF-manipulating-everyone moments 🙁
Queen of Thrones answered the second point earlier on:
Just in case you didn’t know their relationship the Blackfish is/was uncle to Catelyn Stark, her brother Edmure Tully (the Frey hostage) and late sister Lysa Arryn (Moondoor woman). I don’t know this all off the top of my head btw, wikipedia and the GoT wiki are our friends here but I had a fairly good idea where on them to look, which obviously narrows it down tremendously! 🙂
Ser Simplon,
Looks more like Othell Yarwyck/Brian Fortune to me. http://osullivantheactorsagent.com/site/lphotographs/brian_fortune_b_600_x_750.jpg
I’m worried about Arya. She’s one of my favorite characters, and until last night I assumed she had some level of plot armor. Why else would the show have spent so much time in Braavos and on her, just to kill her off?
When other major characters died, it was woven into the broader storyline. The FM really don’t seem to have anything to do with the rest of the characters, though Jaqen was originally at Kings Landing – which was never explained to the best of my recollection.
Last night, I thought of a new theory, one that doesn’t bode well for Arya. I hope I’m wrong, and I’m putting this in spoilers so you don’t have to torture yourself with worry either :).
What if The Waif really is *someone*? What if her reaction at the mention of Walder Frey a few episodes back meant something? What if her hatred of Arya is rooted in something not yet revealed, something beyond primal jealousy?
We know Jaqen used The Waif’s face during the blinding/poison scene. At the time I assumed it was some sort of trick. Instead, maybe it is just a face, and there’s someone else hiding under The Waif’s facade.
If so, then Arya (as we know and love her) could be in real trouble. The Waif kills her, takes her face, and heads to Westeros to play a major part of the battles to come. What better way to infiltrate than posing as Arya Stark?
Maise would still be on the show, the time in Braavos would have more reaching implications beyond simple training for Arya, and the show would have another shocking main character death (something we have yet to see this season).
I don’t like this theory, but I can see it. Someone please poke holes in it!
–http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-6-boss-ass-bitch-sansa-stark-to-rally-westeros-against-the-boltons-a7002826.html
Sansa, the baddest fucking boss donkey bitch in all of Westeros!
GobbleGobble,
Right. Don’t do the whole thing. put the soul of it in like ToJ. The important bit–
“And he follows lords he doesn’t know for reasons he doesn’t understand with a sharpened how, or a cudgel from battle to battle until finally, one day, he breaks”.
Or somesuch. Finish with a closeup of sandor’s eyes. Done, I’m just curious why they wouldn’t namecheck the speech like above in one of McShane’s soliloquies.
I hear Sandra instead of Sansa every single time. Am I the only one? No one else has mentioned it.
Henry Gordon,
That’s true, I guess. Maybe they felt it wasn’t really appropriate for the mishmash of characters that were him.
It’s a shame, and it wouldn’t have been cool. Though I think it’s thematically more suited to the books than the show – the show hasn’t really treaded the whole “war is bad, m’kay?” theme that the books, and aFfC, have.
Just a thought, but what if Arya understood that she had no hope of escaping the Faceless and, like the Hound, also understood she’s only driven by hate. And so she put herself out in the open to be killed and she will stagger back to Jaqen and offer her face for him to kill the rest of her list. So Arya will be dead but the Faceless will come wearing her face.
It’s just about the most horrible thing I can imagine which is generally what happens to Starks.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
Gladly 🙂 One big one – having her face would not mean having her mind. Too many things she wouldn’t know. Wouldn’t fool to many people once she started talking.
Oh, whew! Thanks.
Lady Lyanna Mormont is my favorite minor character now. She exceeded my expectations. The Hound is back!!!!
Good episode.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
Being a Patriots fan, I’m very conflicted when it comes to Wun Wun.
So just got round to watching it (I have to wait until after work on a Monday night so I can sit down and watch it with my bestie). A pretty good episode, nice to have a bit of a slower one after so much drama in the last two. I’ll list my likes and dislikes plus a tinfoil theory I had that may have already been tossed around.
Likes:
1. Seeing Bear Island was great though I was sad to find out that show-Maege is dead. It seems in the show verse we don’t have the other Mormont girls which is sad as I really liked Dacey Mormont even though we didn’t get a lot of her in the books and Alysane has been quite interesting too.
2. Great to see the Glovers, obviously very different storyline to the novels here where it’s Stannis rather than the Boltons who free Deepwood but totally understandable why they wouldn’t want to ally with the Starks in the show.
3. Obviously everything Sandor related was great and really interesting to see this darker side of the BWB. I don’t believe we’ll ever see LS in the show but I do hope we get a good reason for why the BWB have changed so much.
4. Riverrun! Oh so awesome to see it properly and to have the scene almost match the book perfectly. I’m so glad we got BF’s line about sieges being dull. Can’t wait to see Brienne arrive next week.
Dislikes
1. Okay this is kind of a small thing and seems to go against the grain here but I’m really disappointed that they decided to make Yara a lesbian (I’m assuming since that’s the only sexual side she’s really shown so far). Now I love to see LGBT representation as much as anyone but I loved in the book that she’s this awesome female character who couldn’t give a crap whether people think women should be allowed to do something and does whatever the hell she wants. She’s strong, fierce, a natural leader and can match any Ironborn when it comes to drinking or fighting. Changing her to a lesbian in the show feels like they’re just trying to reinforce a stereotype, a case of well if she’s all these things then she must be into women too. As I said it’s a small gripe but it did bug me a little.
2. Everything with Arya. I’m really hoping that there’s more to what happened than was shown since none of it made sense. There’s no logical reason for her to be wandering around like that when she knows how the FM operate. Not to mention that multiple stabs to the stomach including the blade being twisted and falling into filthy water is a wound you’d barely survive yet alone be walking around with.
3. Sansa. Pretty much everything about her at the moment. First off, as someone above mentioned, it’s rather annoying that we haven’t seen her react at all to the massive change in her story. This is a character who for five seasons has had no interaction with the fantasy elements of the show whatsoever. In the space of four episodes she’s found out that her brother died and was brought back to life, that there’s an army of zombies being led by white walkers and that giants exist and one of them is now fighting for her brother and yet not a single reaction from her about any of it. Okay perhaps she’s been reacting and it’s all been off screen but it’d be damn nice to see at least one of them. Secondly, damn it girl just tell Jon about the army waiting at Moat Calin so he can factor it in, there is literally no reason for her not to tell Jon and it just seems beyond stupid that she hasn’t.
Finally my own little tinpot theory that may have already been suggested. Could Arya have been warging into someone when she was killed by the waif? I know the reaction wouldn’t really fit the idea but it would explain why Arya had such a different look in her clothing and hair choice and the lack of needle at her side. I know we haven’t really seen Arya warg on the show but I just found it an interesting possibility.
Mihnea,
I didn’t say threaten. They could’ve offered a reward. Some more land maybe, a marriage. Something. They’re basically asking them to fight for nothing, they already have their home secured, why would they want to go fight?
There are major, major book spoilers here, but this WotW article is where I take comfort in knowing that Arya’s fate is secure, particularly the first paragraph at the top of Page 2 in the images.
Would it be too much to hope that the first image we got of the smith was actually foreshadowing the return of Gendry, and not just a D&D tease. ?
Wimsey,
Someone who’s willing to die for Arya? Some Speak of armor protecting her but slitting the throat would have been a likely option. Not sure if watching the show three times would cause someone else to take the risk of a FM kill. Nor Arya to risk getting killed by a thrust to neck face. She’d have to know Waif was going for stomach to know where fake blood should go.
Maybe those two thrusts and the second with a long twist were only flesh wounds (plot armor). Maybe that was not Arya. We left her in dark room/cabin with needle. Then brazen unholy in the open. She knew she was on the kill list. The surreal walk. Something was not as it seemed but I don’t think fake blood or other theater tricks cover it. But maybe they did not the first time I’ve been wrong
maria,
I can’t say I agree that Sansa hasn’t changed from previous seasons – I’ve enjoyed her arc this season quite a bit – but you do make some really good points… Hopefully she has a prize in store for all of us, but I kind of doubt it.
Thronetender,
Upon rewatching the trailer, I think the “I love Cersei” part is Jaime talking to Edmure, not Brienne.
All we get from the trailer with Jaime and Brienne is her telling him that if she can’t convince BF to surrender and if Jaime attacks then they’ll be enemies. And Jaime has a kind of pained look on his face. Pretty sure that Spurs Jaime to try to settle the conflict peacefully because yeah, he doesn’t want to fight Brienne.
Will,
I think back to last season when Jacqen stated that only death can pay for a life and drinks a vile. Once “dead” Arya cycles thorough many faces before arriving on her visage and going blind. May be some foreshadowing about the Faceless Men’s ability to shift seamlessly. This would give the theory, the Waif actually stabbed Jacqen, some traction.
Something I have noticed about Kit Harrington this season. While I don’t find him to be the most versatile actor, I think he has done a tremendous job this season portraying a man out of his element. Seeing Jon treat with these noble Lords and Ladies, you get a good sense of his bastardy playing a role. In these scenes, he looks so meek and unsure of himself which would be completely understandable, as he carries the leadership mantle of a dying house whose name he can’t even claim.
My theories for the next episode:
1. Jaqen was stabbed, not Arya. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s something different/more complex than this, but it’s the only explanation I have at the moment. Arya’s actions and attitudes are NOT in line with the conclusion of EP6, nor with the reality of her current predicament. On the contrary, I could see Jaqen trying to “tempt” the Waif, with Arya out in public, to see if she truly acts as a FM and ignores his call to “not let her suffer.” Clearly, the Waif failed.
What would be the point of Arya getting needle in EP6 only to abandon any form of defense immediately after? And where did she get the money? This seems like a long shot, but it’s my best guess. IF Jaqen dies (not sure about that), it would also give Arya “freedom” from being hunted by the FM, after she deals with the Waif of course, closing out the loop nicely.
2. Daenerys returns to Mereen. PLEASE! Torn between this, and Sons of Harpy reemerging. But I think it will be more interesting if Dany faces Tyrion’s “compromise” with the evidence that it is, so far, working. The alternative is SoH are back at it, and the Dothraki end up putting them in line.
3. Cersei goes crazy, and sets up her final demise. I think she’s gonna get real violent (as indicated in the preview), and do a lot of damage to the faith. This will be the reason why her trial by combat doesn’t pan out, and she ends up setting loose some wildfire. Also, Tommen’s death is looming. That setup with Marg and him not sleeping together could be a good cue for the audience to know for sure that she doesn’t bear an heir once he’s gone.
4. Brienne convinced the Blackfish to surrender and move forces North. I actually kind of doubt this pans out, but it’s my bet for now because (a) I don’t envision a big battle scene in EP8 when we have the Northern war brewing, (b) we’ve seen Walder Frey celebrating a (preliminary) victory, presumably, in the series promo, and (c) BF is honorable, and could potentially be moved to rally for Rickon/the Northern cause, especially if they promise to help recapture the castle after the fact (a viable possibility). IMO, the alternative is that BF is soundly defeated by Jaimie and crew.
5. The Hound restarts his murder streak, destroying a big chunk of BwB. I’m not sure what the “point” of this storyline is yet, so I anticipate that some exposition comes from this plot as well. Perhaps the Hound will kill the violent folk, and take over leadership of the group. Perhaps Gendry is with them. Who knows. But heads are gonna roll, and the Hound will come out alive, of course.
Am I the only one who thinks that the High Sparrow tested Marge this episode with the grandmother comment? I’ll bet he had no intention of going after Gma, but when he sees her bolt, he will know that Marge’s love for the Seven is a fraud. The jig is up.
Whacky Theory: as Cersei unravels the Seven and the Sparrow, Marge distances herself, but a Tommen stays with the Sparrow and is destroyed with him. Cersei kills her last child.
Ox of House Larson,
That’s true. He’s been out of sorts due to being murdered. Questioning his place. But I think you’re right-this ep shows him struggling with remembering his social status S of castle black, where he was confident & in charge. Good observation.
Other random (unlikely) theory:
The Mountain kills Tommen.
Bear with me… Why I think so:
(1) Tommen is dying soon, for sure IMO
(2) Cersei will be (unintentionally) complicit in his death. My hypothesis due to some foreshadowing we've had
(3) They've set up (in the scene with Jaimie and Qyburb) that The Mountain "understands well enough" – with Tommen aligned with the faith, and Cersei against the faith, is it possible that Cersei loses control, and/or in the heat of a tense moment, The Mountain identifies Tommen as a target to be killed.
(4) This would give Cersei no reason to go on, spurring her suicidal "burn the city" plot line that is being theorized – a theory I agree with.
(5) It would make for a crazy twist
If I had to guess, I'd say this probably WON'T happen, but it came to mind, and I can't say I'm entirely dismissing it.
Ox of House Larson,
Couldn’t agree more.
Arya’s face should not be available, as she has not died and had her face added to the hall. (Arya hallucinated seeing her face of dead Jaquen last year.) Moreover, given that Jaquen is not a main character, why would they be doing this?
Why not both? They are hardly mutually exclusive!
Tommen might even go after the Mountain himself. Sadly for him, it seems as if he somehow ended up the “honorable” sort who would fight alongside his knights rather than behind them.
But that gets us to the same ending!
I’m more confident that Arya survives, gets through this ordeal and eventually ends up back in Westeros for the climax of the series than I was that Jon would be resurrected. Well, at least equally as confident, which is very. I’m saying Arya-Arya too, not Jaqen-Arya or Waif-Arya or other such nonsense.
This isn’t season one, two or even three when main focus characters in the show were killed in horrifying ways, but for totally understandable reasons. She’s essentially been THE POV character of almost every scene she’s been in since the series premiere, and has been in ALL of them starting S1E10. I don’t believe for one minute that they’d have ’57’ episodes of character development mostly split off from all the other major storylines just to flush it away by killing her and making her a face.
Wimsey,
Re: Arya — didn’t we see Jaqen appear as the Waif in the S5 finale though? When Arya went blind? I may be remembering incorrectly… It wouldn’t seem like too much of a stretch to me for Jaqen to be able to appear as Arya though, given the vagueness of the FM “magic.” I get your skepticism though. I just can’t shake that the Arya we saw acted nothing like the real Arya should/would have.
Re: Mereen — specifically, I was thinking about what Tyrion’s looking up at in the trailer. I think it’s Dany/Drogon, not SoH mayhem. I agree they could be back at it regardless, but I still hope a temporary “peace” has set in. I think the conversation will surround plans for Westeros and the Red Priestess.
Re: Tommen — lol if he goes after the Mountain, but you’re right, it wouldn’t be completely out of left field, sadly.
To me that was just for show effect… confuse people, make things mysterious, screw with the viewers. There were potions, hallucinogens present, yadda yadda. I loved it! Still, I don’t think I’ve ever believed that a 6′ man could change into a 5′ girl in the books by wearing a face.
Ginevra,
Oh, thank you. Yes, even though a lot of that isn’t how things turned out, it does provide a measure of confidence :).
Ginevra,
Is it possible that there are two separate conversations between Brienne and Jaime being cut together there? In the first part, Jaime seems to be wearing leather, but in the second, he appears to be in armor. ??
Edit: on a second and third viewing, maybe he is wearing leather both times.
Someone else mentions that Jaime might not even be talking to Brienne for this line but rather to the Blackfish.
The settings are extremely different for when Brienne delivers her line and when Jaime voices his line. Brienne’s scene is bright, in a red-on-red plush tent (Jaime’s, surely). Jaime’s line is delivered in the dark where the background is reasonably obscure but doesn’t look the same as his tent, and where the person he’s speaking to is in complete shadow, with short hair. That’s about all I can tell.
Oh, yes, Jaime did go through a wardrobe change, but both look leather to me. One is studded below the neckline with tiny metal dots. The other just has a metal clasp at the neck and looks like it opens in the front.
Ginevra,
It’s Edmure.
I generally assume that the scenes in different storylines are not strictly chronological, and that in general approximately one month passes per episode (except for season 4, which seemed to cover a much shorter time span, more like 1 week per episode on average), but particular storylines might sometimes move ahead or behind the general “one month per episode” clock. They’re usually vague enough about specific times that it’s hard to know exactly how much each story is out of sync with the others at any given point, but I find that if I use the ambiguity strategically, I can find some semblance of a plausible timeline, based on interactions or news passing between storylines. Some viewers get annoyed at perceived inconsistencies in the time line, but I tend to give D&D the benefit of the doubt, and assume that if there is some plausible way for the events to fit what we see, then that’s probably what happened.
They tend to avoid stating specific distances in the show (and most of the time in the books too), but one reference point is that I think the Wall is supposed to be about 300 miles long from end to end. As far as I can tell, the scale of the world is relatively consistent between the books and the show. This would make the direct route from Castle Black to Winterfell about 680 miles. If you were traveling at a pace of 24 miles per day, that would be about a 4 week trip.
I don’t remember if they ever mentioned where Stannis’ camp (and now Jon & Sansa’s camp) is, but I got the impression that it was along the King’s Road, maybe 1 week march from Winterfell, and 3 weeks from Castle Black. This would mean that Stannis was defeated and Brienne rescued Sansa & Theon about 1 week after Shireen’s death. Davos & Mel were both about one week into their 3 week journey to Castle Black at that time (with Davos about a day or 2 ahead of Mel). If this is the case, Brienne, Pod and Sansa would already be over halfway to Castle Black (since they had horses and a damn good reason to hurry) when Davos & Mel arrived, and then a few days later Jon was murdered by the mutineers. He spent a day or two dead, and then a few days dealing with the aftermath of the mutiny before hanging the mutineers, and then Sansa arrived the next day as Jon was preparing to leave.
Basically if we assume Sansa’s arrival at Castle black is 3-4 weeks after her escape from Winterfell, then either Jon’s death happened significantly after Sansa’s escape & rescue, or Jon waited a long time to hang the mutineers. I don’t think Jon kept the mutineers waiting that long.
Similarly, many of the early S6 episodes at Castle Black seemed to be taking place in a fairly short period of time, during which time Arya seemed to be going through one or more months of training montages and becoming a skilled fighter. Now in the later part of the season, Arya’s scenes are covering only a few days of watching the play and fleeing from the Waif, while Jon and Sansa are marching all over the North for a month or more while their timeline catches up with Arya’s.
275 miles by land and 300 Miles by sea from Castle Black to Bear Island (2 weeks), 175 miles by sea to Deepwood Motte (2 days), 340 miles overland to Stannis’s camp (2 weeks), so about a month of travel for visiting the places we see on screen. The other minor houses that joined may have responded to their ravens, or they may have traveled there in person off-screen, so there’s a little more ambiguity that we can use to make timelines fit. Also, the march from Deepwood Motte to Stannis’s camp covers hilly, wooded terrain, without a nice road, so you could plausibly add more time to that journey if necessary to make things sync up.
Littlefinger and his supposed “teleporter” are a bit harder to account for, but if he had spies in the North who sent him a raven as soon as Sansa escaped, and took a fast ship from Runestone (Lord Royce’s castle in the Vale) to Eastwatch it’s plausible that he could have arrived in Mole’s Town around the time Sansa reached Castle Black (1750 miles by sea, then 135 miles by land). It’s possible that a fast ship could travel 100 miles per day or more depending on the weather. So, a few days to reach Runestone (from wherever he got the message) and threaten Lord Royce in his own castle, then 18 days at sea, and 4-5 days to ride to Mole’s Town.
If you haven’t noticed…I like maps 🙂
Ginevra,
Jaime is definitely wearing armor in the second shot. His gorget has studs on it to keep the gold decorations in place and you can see a little bit of his lion pauldrons.
Yea, I’ve really been analyzing every inch of the preview.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
Well, clearly you are the expert. Aren’t pauldrons the big kettles that witches cook in? And gorgets are leather sleeves, right? Or S&M paraphernalia? Or both? I actually have no idea what pauldrons and gorgets are, as you likely deduced. I might be guilty of looking too closely at Jaime, though.
I know what a trebuchet is. Are you proud? Probably not.
Gauntlets! Not gorgets. And cauldrons, of course.
I thought of this too! I was thinking he could tell she got really worried when he mentioned her grandmother. And why mention specifically the QoT? How about her father? It could be because Lady Olenna leaving would demonstrate that Margaery is not being truthful.
I hope you’re right about this. I’d be quite disappointed if the whole purpose of Arya’s trip to Braavos is just a way to introduce the Faceless Men for a role in some other plot, kill her off, and give the Faceless Men her face.
I could see the Waif-Arya scenario working in one potential way that would be reasonably satisfying:
Arya learns to warg, and it turns out that the Faceless Man “No One” training makes them vulnerable to warging because they have no personality or motivation of their own to fight back with. Waif kills Arya, dying Arya warg’s Waif, brings Arya-corpse back to House of Black & White where Jaqen removes Arya’s face from her corpse and gives it to Arya-Waif, and gives her a mission to return to Westeros and kill Jon (because he cheated the Many Faced God). As she’s preparing to leave, Jaqen asks “Who Are You?”
She replies, “Arya Stark.” Then she stabs him in the heart with Needle, walks away, and sails to Eastwatch on the ship that he conveniently booked for her.
Ginevra,
Hah, don’t worry. Medieval armor has just been an interesting topic for me ever since I started watching GoT.
A gorget is the throat and upper chest protection on armor. The pauldrons would be the shoulder protection.
Trebuchet is a much funner word to say anyway.
I’m soooo with you!
I don’t think Sansa is not telling Jon about it because she’s scheming but rather she’s not thinking straight. Some are saying it’s because Sansa doesn’t know yet if the Vale army is coming or not since she refused him the first time. If that is the case then Sansa doesn’t know LF yet! LF is not someone who’d withdraw an offer for being spurned. We’ll see in the next episode if Sansa will finally let Jon in on this Vale information. Again, she doesn’t have to say everything. She can even tell a white lie (“I reached out to my cousin Robin, who loves me dearly, and I do hope he’ll tell his Lord Protector of the Vale to send his army to my aid.”) But yeah, someone thinking straight won’t keep it a secret.
Ginevra,
I thought he was talking to Edmure in that scene (where he says he’d slaughter every Tully). But whoever it is, did Jaime just confess to someone that he’s in love with his twin sister? “I love Cersei. And if I have to slaughter every Tully to get back to her, that’s what I’ll do.” That’s not something you say about a sister!
Ravyn,
What if she happens to run into Syrio Forel (he is from Bravos) and he heals her. Benjin Stark returned from season 1 and saved Bran
While the Starks are the most sympathetic people on the show, and I absolutely love the Starks, you are right about Jaime. Neither honour nor any oaths he has taken compel him to assist the Starks in taking back Winterfell. In fact it would be foolish of him to do so. And he does not become a villain by refusing Brienne here. He is a Lannister after all.
Unfortunately, the way he is being written will turn the audience against him. Him being ready to kill all Tullys to get back to Cersei? Wtf!
I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet (too many comments to read them all!), but in case you’re wondering who is strangling Pod in the preview for next week, I freeze-framed it on YouTube and it’s almost certainly…
I don’t have any more info to speculate as to why, but at last for me it was an interesting thing to note.
I don’t think it makes Jaime any more of a villain if he doesn’t volunteer to help take back Winterfell. I don’t even see the Jaime today as a villain, not that I’m a Lannister supporter. I think many of the characters have their heroic and villainous moments, and I enjoy both.
However, I do see a possibility of him helping. The oath aside, there may be strategic and emotional reasons for this.
Jaime needs help in Kings Landing. Ramsay is almost stranger to the Lannisters. A bastard son who killed his own father, and one with a growing reputation for brutality.
And don’t forget, it was Bolton men who captured Jaime and Brienne and threatened to rape her. It was Ramsay’s buddy Locke who cut off Jaime’s hand. There’s a score to settle at Winterfell for Jaime too.
Plus Walder Frey isn’t to be trusted either, and his sons are idiots. Not exactly the allies someone in trouble (and the Lannisters are in trouble) would be excited to have.
Jaime also grew to have a grudging respect for Catelyn. His beloved brother married Sansa. He knew Ned Stark well, and even if they were on separate sides, there’s something to be said for history between families.
Plus, in GoT, we often see people switch sides and allies based on expediency.
Now we have the Blackfish. With Brienne’s arrival, the Blackfish has a huge decision to make. Parlay with Jamie, surrender the castle and bail with his army to Winterfell. Or stay holed up in the castle and let his niece and nephew die. He knows Jaime needs the win. He could strike a deal with Jaime.
Then we have Brienne. Whom Jaime likes and respects, if not on some level loves. I don’t underestimate her influence.
I don’t think this is really how it goes down, but I do see a path for it to happen. Either way, Jaime is a great character both as a villain and a hero. 🙂
I join the others in loving Sandor ( I still like to call him “the Hound” and I feel there are still bits of his old self within) and dancing with joy at his return. I really enjoyed the scenes with brother Ray, great performance of Ian McShane as I had expected. GOT did it again! After I had fallen in love with a character (see Karsi), they are brutally murdered in the same episode. It seems that no good deed should stay unpunished.
There were so many amazing confrontation scenes, these are imo the ones which make characters really shine. I loved Lyanna Mormont and no wonder Davos could see beyond her composure and win her. She was not as gentle and enthusiastic as Shireen, but she must have somehow reminded him of his deceased “foster daughter”. I expect him to find out soon about her fate and I don’t think it will be easy for Mel. Btw, I miss Melisandre.
I don’t know what to believe about Arya’s scene, there were lots of weird things about it. Other posters have listed them above.
Jumbo,
I feel exact same way. It’s mystifying how they are letting things play out. Those of us who’ve had complaints about it are called greedy and tol that they “can’t show everything on screeN’ and stuff like that. I’m glad there are others that share in the confusion and commiserate. I’ve read the same spoiler you mentioned and it will be just another cliffhanger for end of season no doubt. They be playing us. I’m not feeling playful anymore. I want answers lol!
Clob,
Arya and the waif are playing jh. They secretly want to kill him for leading them down this road. Arya jumping from a building is her running from jh after the waif is killed during their botched assassination attempt. She gets on a boat thinking she escaped and her last scene is jh revealing himself again on the boat. Bye bye arya.
ThisGirlHasNoName,
It would be quite ironic if Jaime realizes the danger of allying with Ramsey Bolton when the Northeners themselves do not seem too bothered about it!
I don’t think this is happening, that is the Tully army is not going to be part of the battle for Winterfell. Still, this situation should lead to interesting confrontations between the characters involved, that is Jaime, Brienne, BF and Edmure.
Besides, in the last episode war council meeting between Jon, Sansa and Davos, all of them seemed to have stopped counting on the Tully army for the upcoming war, whereas just 2 episodes back, this was very much on the table. Maybe this is a hint that we should stop considering this possibility too??
,634454″>Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,
“>Ser Broccoli ,
I understand that but in the leathers it has been made into clothing. I didn’t say it bothered me because I’m against the wearing of animal pelts I just think it looks weird Jon having this actual dead animal hanging about his neck. I prefer him in the animal skin or fur not the whole carcass.
ghost of winterfell,
I know you’re right. 🙂 I still have fun speculating on alternate theories (and love this site because people either add fuel to them or refute them, and almost always keep it fun).
One of the things I appreciate so much about GoT is the attention to detail, the foreshadowing, the undercurrents. They love to have something shocking happen, only for us to think, “duh! Should have seen that coming. So many hints!” That makes speculation even more wild and fun.
You have rather vivid imaginary skills. Write a book. I’ll read it.
My theory on why the High Sparrow wants Margaery pregnant is, that as soon as Marge is preggers, they could get rid of Tommen. He isnt needed anymore (thinking the pregnancy gets through and a healthy child gets born of course.) Not only would that child be the next king/queen in line, but also the heir to highgarden, if Loras really has to forfeit his rights in the succession.
RosanaZugey,
I think Sophie might have just hinted at being made “Queen in the North” with all the remaining Northern houses swearing allegiance to her after the battle of the bastards.
At least to me, it would make sense. Most of the fans are in agreement that Rickon is a goner and I think this might be correct. Nobody has heard of Bran for a while, it isn’t even clear whether he’s still alive, which would make Sansa the eldest living heir of her father/Robb (whichever way you’d like to put it). Would also prove how farsighted Littlefinger’s matchmaking was – didn’t he mention something of that sort when they were standing in the crypts of Winterfell?
And – boom – after her being made Queen in the North, we get the answer to R+L=J with the Tower of Joy reloaded (from what I know it was confirmed that this will happen towards the end of the season – at least it was confirmed that we’ll see the actor playing Young Ned again).
Thanks, i wanted to say that for a 100 times (long time lurker). This idea of redemption and hooking up with the next woman coming along his way did strike me always much more as High School Musical than GoT. (even more so in the show). That kind of feelings he has for Cersei (as wrong in eyes of society they may seem) just dont disappear, heck, even if the person did disappoint you on every level. You might not be able to be with this person anymore, but that doesnt mean these feelings go away, and surely you just dont go along with next person coming your way.
i don’t know if this is a spoiler or not, so i will tag it as needed.
cersei is relying heavily on the trial by combat.
but…
at any time the accused or the accuser may call for
guilt is automatic and the accused loses.
at the most, she has only two people to stand for her. the mountain and qyburn. as the queen of thorns points out, every one else either is gone or despises her.
even qyburn warned her when she was still in the dungeons that the faith militant did not adhere to the same rules as most people did. that they followed their own rules and also ancient (archaic) rules. so it isn’t too far a stretch to think they won’t allow a trial by combat but instead go with something she has completely dismissed or forgotten about.
it is possible she is putting too much faith in the trial by combat.
IIRC Rickon and Bran have been presumed death for quite a while, Sansa didn’t know it about the deceit until Theon told her so. Im assuming its not made widely known that it was two farm boys who were killed by Theon and passed off as Bran and Rickon.
Since Lord Karstark does not seem surprised by the appearance of Rickon, I think Ramsay is over confident in the loyalty of some other houses and he didn’t see the risk of telling certain lords that two heirs (in line before Sansa) of house Stark might actually be alive.
Edmure’s hair seems longer than this person’s, although with the person in shadow, it is really hard to tell. It could be Edmure.
Jaime has been sharing way too much this season. TMI, Jaime. TMFI. He even confessed helping Tyrion escape.
SLD! I call him the Hound, too. Old habits die harder than Sandor.
I cannot believe you miss Mel, though. We’ll likely get the Shireen scene next episode, methinks. That should be interesting. I hope we also get much more Lyanna since she’s camping with the boys.
Arya’s weirdness and the BwB weirdness is what kept me from really loving this episode, I must confess. I’m not able to get past it. I cannot imagine a situation – and no fan has proposed a scenario – that explains Arya without feeling forced, fake, or full of holes. And the only good explanation for the BwB’s complete about-face, destroying those whose original mission it was to protect, is the one theory I hate the most.
Too dark to see who Jaime is talking to when he says the bit about loving Cersei, but could it be Bronn? He implied he believed the incest stories when they were on the boat to Dorne and seems to be the most likely person there Jaime might confess something like that to. Unless of course he is saying he loves her as she is his sister, is supporting her in her role as the King’s mother, Lannisters must stick together etc, and doesn’t mean it in a sexual context at all, in which case he could be speaking to just about anyone ?
I just don’t understand why nobody in the Stark team ever mentions the fact they have a GIANT at their disposal! I mean Ramsay’s men might as well sh*t themselves just by the sight of Wun Wun running towards them screaming
Ox of House Larson,
awwww
so true
<3 Jon
Ox of House Larson,
Excellent observation, and you said it very well too.
Boston Snow,
Well, Septa following them around and witnessing Margaery’s “argument” with her grandmother, where she is throwing her out KL in effect, telling her to go home, was not done in secret. So if it was a test, I don’t think Margaery failed.
In fact, I think the High Sparrow just wanted Olenna out of the way, not in a position to compete with him, or influence others against him. He needs to be sure he has Margaery & Tommen in his grip, and with Olenna around he was less secure. IMO.
Possible. We also can guess that he’s going to have a convo with Edmure this episode, given he cleaned him up. He is threatening to kill every Tully and that may be a good way to convince Edmure to help him get BF to give up the castle.
So my guess there are two Jaime convos being cut together – one with Brienne, one with Edmure.
QueenofThrones,
I’m leaning towards Jamie saying that to Bronn. Brienne probably already spoke to him about her mission to help Sansa regain Winterfell from the Boltons. Like Brienne, Jamie has no love for the Boltons. He maybe discussing the situation with Bronn, feeling defensive because he blew Brienne off. Who knows. Since Jamie doesn’t personally decide to help Brienne, maybe he will allow the Tully forces to escape to help her at Winterfell? It would be great if he joined them at the last minute, leaving the Freys on their own…for the moment… but I guess that’s too much to hope for.
RawJah,
Just because a queen is ‘preggers’, doesn’t mean Tommen is no longer useless. The baby might be stillborn, or be killed by the various claimants to the throne before it got a chance to walk.
BTW – speaking of preggers, a non essential question. We’ve seen Edmure; what happened to his bride Rosalyn? (I think that was her name) Im assuming she didn’t get put in the dungeon. Could she be pregnant
Ok, Im ready for Sunday, its only…..5 + days away. sigh
nandydrew,
Sandor is one of the few that knows LF’s betrayals in KL. Valuable information – It is known.
Lulus Mum,
thanks for that 🙂
We definitely saw Jaqen with the face of the Waif in the scene where Arya went blind. So living peoples faces might be available. Of course we could instead assume that Jaqen’s and the Waif’s faces are just the faces of dead people that they constantly wear. I don’t think that is the case though. They seem to always come back to that one face and use the others only temporarily for one purpose.
My guess is that anyone who wore a face is added to the library, which would include Arya, and of course most Faceless Men.
Sinequanone,
You’re welcome 😀
Foreshadowing for Cleganebowl:
Septon Ray: “How many men did it take to cut you down?”
The Hound: “Just one.”
Septon Ray: “He must have been some kind of a monster.”
Ginevra,
Maybe that’s the idea with the new BwB, the dark side of something which had started as positive, but I don’t like it and, for the same reason, I hated the whole LSH arc.
About Mel, she was hardly my favourite character (she wouldn’t qualify for top 200), I wanted her dead after the Shireen episode, at the same time being annoyed by her not understanding her mistake with Stannis. The night is dark and full of errors!
But I became more and more fond of Carice and her real-life friendship with Liam and, more than that, her character’s new personality made it very interesting for me. That’s something so sweet in a former fanatic questioning their faith and regretting their deeds.
My theory is that Arya was actually JH, he has a soft spot for Arya and was playing decoy, allowing her time to skip town, with the Waif thinking she killed Arya. Remember in the scene where Arya went blind, that JH version 2.0/3.0 had Arya’s face beneath others.
I noticed others think this plausible too, if the Waif realizes it was actually JH, she’s second fiddle to Arya and will go bat shit crazy and probably finish JH and ransack Bravvos to find Arya.
Boston Snow,
BostonSnow,
The HS may be testing her, but I don’t think that Olenna fleeing was the test. Recall that Septa Unella, who I feel is very unlikely to be an ally of Marg’s based on their happy camraderie in the cells, was present the entire scene. Marg didn’t hide that she was telling Olenna to leave. So I think it’s safe to assume the HS would know everything about this meeting except the Rose note and Marg’s face when she hugged Olenna because the Septa would have reported back to him. Marg knew this, and would not have done anything to risk exposing her false conversion that openly this early, so I think Olenna leaving is approved by the HS.
This is my first post, so apologies if it isn’t formatted correctly.
Also, not sure if you need to place a spoiler tag on theories, but